← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Ohio State No. 5 spring practice: Jeremiah Smith says where he can improve, Cortez Hankton new vibes
00:49:56
The Ohio State Buckeyes had their fifth football practice of the spring on Saturday, and Doug Lesmerises and Bill Landis were there to talk with superstar WR Jeremiah Smith and new receivers coach Cortez Hankton after practice.
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- [00:00]
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- [01:06]
Bill Landis
Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show. Bill Landis Dougl Maurice. He's Bill. I'm Doug. Ohio State spring practice number five in the books on Saturday. We talked with new receivers coach Cortez Hankton after practice and All American receiver Jeremiah Smith and a lot of people in the Woody Hayes Athletic center on Saturday.
- [01:25]
Doug Lamorise
Bill ton of recruits there. I won't pretend to know who every one of them was, but Jet Harrison was there. That was interesting. Marvin Harrison's little brother was in the house.
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Bill Landis
Given name or nickname? Do you know?
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Doug Lamorise
I actually don't know.
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Bill Landis
When your dad's a Hall of Fame receiver, it's possible your given name is Jet. That's a pretty cool name.
- [01:49]
Doug Lamorise
So yeah, he's by the way like rocketing up the recruiting boards. He is number four overall in the composite ratings on 24, seven sports and I think on three slash, rivals has him number one overall in that class. Receiver, obviously.
- [02:08]
Bill Landis
And he's in what class?
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Doug Lamorise
28.
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Bill Landis
Class of 2028. So a little, got a little time here on this guy.
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Doug Lamorise
So.
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Bill Landis
So he's finishing his sophomore year of high school right now, this spring, right?
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Doug Lamorise
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [02:24]
Bill Landis
Okay. Cam Hayward was there. I recognized him. He's not a recruit, but he's.
- [02:29]
Doug Lamorise
I thought I saw him. I thought I was like from pretty far away. It's like. Is that Cam Hayward?
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Bill Landis
Yeah. There with his lovely family. Nice to, to say hello to him. And a couple black stripes off on Saturday among the transfers, which is, you know, it's like, hey, you've started in major college football, but you're not a true Buckeye yet. But it's nice to have still a ceremony that matters to guys.
- [02:52]
Doug Lamorise
Yeah, it is. I think it. It's. It's a little bit of insight anyway, into what's happening in spring practice, too. So Kyle Parker, receiver from lsu, lost his. Cortez Hankton told us that. I think as we're talking right now, Ohio State has yet to announce that, but that happened after Saturday's practice. And then Earl Little Jr. Transfer safety from Florida State also lost his black stripe. And I thought it was funny. Funny slash interesting. I guess. When Jeremiah Smith was asked about Earl Little Jr. He said, like, he's gonna hit you. He's gonna make a lot of plays. And I don't want to say much more than that because I think he's going to be special for us. He's like, was smiling the whole time he said it. So seems like five practices in the spring that Earl Little has made quite the impression on Jeremiah Smith.
- [03:35]
Bill Landis
So let's talk about Jeremiah Smith. We'll also talk about Cortez Hankton a little bit, but Jeremiah Smith, arguably the best player in college football. We plan to have a big around the shoe episode focusing on Jeremiah Smith on Monday with if they still show up, Stephen Means and Adam King, two good folks to talk about Jeremiah Smith with. It felt like he was like bringing it a little bit, which is like, well, who cares how he talks to the media? But he was. You know, you're in year three, you're kind of the veteran in the room. They lost a lot of guy, you know, Sonny Styles and, and. And Caleb Downs from last year. Jeremiah Smith just role on this team has changed. And it seemed like in speaking with us for the first time since before the Cotton bowl, he had embraced that.
- [04:24]
Doug Lamorise
Yeah, I mean, he's been the most famous player on the team since he showed up, but I think has been. He's had a little bit of a buffer, I think, in terms of having to be like the face of the team, a spokesman for the team, a guy who has to like, kind of get out there and. And be a. A little bit of a vocal leader too, probably, in some ways. And I felt he was a little different. Like. Like with a lot of young players, you tend to get shorter answers, and as they get older and more experienced in a career, the answers team seem to tend to get a little longer And a little more interesting and often more thoughtful and introspective. And I think Jeremiah was kind of all of those things on Saturday in a way that I agree with you. I do think it was a little notable that he was that way. Yeah.
- [05:11]
Bill Landis
He said they were the worst team. What's the context? He said he was talking about what he wants to get better at. And one of the main things he said was yards after the catch. I think. I think we were the worst team in yards after the catch last year. I. I don't have that right in front of me. I'm not exactly sure where to look. You have team yard after the catch. What's the. So.
- [05:36]
Doug Lamorise
Oh, I thought I have. I have both the quote and team yards after the catch.
- [05:39]
Bill Landis
Okay, give the full quote. And then how close is he to like, actually being right that he was like, we were the worst in yards after the catch as a. As a passing offense.
- [05:49]
Doug Lamorise
So he said. Talking about yards after the catch. He said, that's really the biggest emphasis in our receiver room this year. It's especially a goal of mine this year. I think we were like the worst team, worst team in yards after the catch last year. I mean, really, we had no. We had no guys that had juice when they had the ball in their hands. I was like, whoa. When he said that last part, I was like. I was like, one can't believe you said that too. You're not wrong, because I think a lot of people felt that about the receiving game last year. They weren't actually worse. So at least. So I'm looking at sports info solutions. I'm just looking at power four teams. They were 28th in total yards after the catch. Okay, so not. Not worse, but not as good as they want it to be. The leaders, by the way, in yards after the catch last year, just total. Miami was one. Ole Miss was two. Okay.
- [06:50]
Bill Landis
It's an interesting thing to be that focused on, but it's also something. And you want to dig into this a little bit more to write about this more@billanddugosu.substack.com but there. So it's like, well, I guess you just got to get more talented receivers. What's wrong with you, Ohio State? Why don't you have any yards after the catch? It's like, well, obviously that's not true because you have Jeremiah Smith on Carnell Tate, so why isn't it happening? So Cortez Hankton, the receivers coach, was talking about, like, you know, even if you're running a. Whatever A hitch. You've got to catch the ball and think about, I'm going to score on this play. But you talked about this a lot last year, that they were either running vertical, like when they were catching the ball, they were either running vertically away from the line of scrimmage, sometimes vertically back towards the line of scrimmage, or sometimes they were catching it when they were stopped. There wasn't a lot of a ton of like horizontal slant. Catch it across the middle and have a chance to go. I. Do you remember, I guess it was his freshman year, 2024. He had to catch. I called it like the triangle explosion play. It's like he caught it in between three guys on a little slant and just like exploded and I think scored a touchdown on that play.
- [08:03]
Doug Lamorise
Yep.
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Bill Landis
But I.
- [08:04]
Doug Lamorise
That was against. Shoot. Who was that against? It was one of their early, like kind of mismatch games. But yeah, he caught the ball in the middle of three defenders and not read all of them. Yeah,
- [08:17]
Bill Landis
I don't remember something quite like that. Last year, obviously Jeremiah Smith made a lot of big plays, but who cares what we think that he said this, but actually you noted it and the stats would back it up. What does this mean? What, what can actually be done? Do you think this will be something that they are actually better at in 2026?
- [08:39]
Doug Lamorise
Yeah, I think they will. Jeremiah Smith, by the way, his, his yards. His yards after the catch per reception last year, it. It dropped by more than 2 yards from the previous year. He was 6.5, 6.5 yards after the catch per reception as a freshman. He was 4.3 last year that 4.3among the 28 players in FBS who had 100 targets last year, ranked 23rd. So like he, he had a great year, but he just didn't have many opportunities to do that. So I think, I think it's a lot of things. I think it's. I think it's Cortez Hankton having an emphasis on it and, and probably drilling it more so. So it's just kind of a second nature thing for his receivers that once you catch the ball, the play's not over. Like, like catch it and, and run. I think there's a, there's a schematic question there and a route tree question there that you alluded to. Like there just wasn't a lot of like shallow over the middle of the field stuff for Jeremiah Smith last year or really kind of any receivers. So I think that's part of the reason why they wanted to add more Speed to the room too. Like they added a couple of pretty, pretty fast guys and Kyle Parker and I think this is sort of getting, getting to the heart of that as well. So they were a team last year that it felt like when they got yards after the catch, it was on deep balls, like they caught it at 4 or at 40 yards and then ran the extra 10 yards to score a touchdown. But there wasn't a lot of. I caught this ball at six yards and turned it into a 40 yard reception. And this is something that I think I asked Ryan Day about this, trying to remember when this is years ago, I think in, in 2018, when Ryan was the OC and not yet the head coach, Ohio State was among the best teams in the country, I think in yards after catch, perhaps. I'm gonna try to look that up now. When they had like Campbell. Yeah, right. Mesh Rock mania, Paris Campbell, KJ Hill,
- [10:42]
Bill Landis
Terry McLaurin, Terry McLaren, although he was more of a deep, deep threat guy.
- [10:45]
Doug Lamorise
But yeah, yeah, like that was. And maybe that was just something that suited that group more. But, but like it immediately dropped like once Ryan Day became the head coach. And I think. I don't know that it's ever been. Yeah, they were that year. They were second in the country in yards after the catch behind Washington State, which is an air raid team or wasn't every team at the time. So it's just not been a big component of the offense for much of Ryan Day's tenure. Like, fine, but probably lower than anyone would assume based off the receiver talent that Ohio State accumulates. And if a lot of the conversation, or at least a nice chunk of the conversation about where the offense needs to go next season is about being more explosive, well, this is how you do it, right? So I'm. I wasn't surprised to hear any of that today. It was actually like kind of encouraging because I had been thinking it too and wondering. Wondering if it was on their mind. So for Jeremiah to kind of bring it up on a little bit unprompted, and then for Cortez Hangton to double down on it, I think is super interesting.
- [11:44]
Bill Landis
Do you know where LSU where Cortez Hankton was the receiver's coach the last several years? Were they ranked last year?
- [11:50]
Doug Lamorise
Give me one second, I'll pull it back up.
- [11:52]
Bill Landis
And this is one of those. Cortez Hankton is not in charge of designing the offense, but certainly he would have an influence on how he thinks best his receivers can be used. So also, they sucked last year, so they fired the coach.
- [12:03]
Doug Lamorise
But like they did suck. They were 20th, so they were better than Ohio State. Okay.
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Bill Landis
It's just one of the, it's just one of these things. It's like Jeremiah Smith and, and Ohio State. Offensively, when you have Julian saying and Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate, it's like the expectations to be the best at everything. So just if you rank in the 20s in something, it catches your eye. And like if this is a point of emphasis that the best player on the team and the new receivers coach are talking about, this is clearly not on, on an island out here. This is a discussion that obviously is taking place with Arthur the oc, with Ryan Day as the head coach, that we could see a shift here. And it's not. It's one of those things like I guess if, if you score a 50 yard touchdown, who cares whether the ball went in the air 50 yards and then Carnell Tate jumped up between two guys and caught it or the ball was in the air for 10 yards and Carnell Tate caught it and ran between three guys and ran to the end zone. But they're good at the down the field stuff, right? But also they're losing Carnell Tate who kind of was their best guy at the down the field stuff. So maybe they, they need to lean into yards after the catch a little bit. But generally speaking, there just should be more opportunity to be explosive because it's not an either or. It's a yes and it's a yeah, I agree.
- [13:18]
Doug Lamorise
It's a, it's a yes. And, but I also, I, I do believe that it probably the idea of like let's maybe not try to bomb it down the field every time we need an explosive pass play and let's see if we can't get the ball quickly to guys and then run after the catch. I do think probably suits Julian saying a little more. Julian was a good downfield thrower, but I think the thing that he does best is get the ball out fast, accurately to like, to whatever receivers within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage. So like if you combine. Because he's like, he's. There's nothing wrong with being a point guard, but he's kind of a point guard and, and I, and I think, I think maybe you maybe get a little more out of Julian too if you're, if you were doing some of that and maybe you'd start taking less sex obviously if you do this because the ball's coming out quicker. Kyle Parker Last year at LSU, not a high volume guy only 44 targets, 5.5 yards after the catch per reception. Devin McEwen, a high volume guy at UTSA, 5.4. Both would have let Ohio State last year by a full yard. Interesting.
- [14:21]
Bill Landis
Okay, so it's a little bit. I mean, do you think, did Ohio State say, hey, we have to get better at yards after the catch? Let's go in the portal and find some guys who are good at that? Or did Ohio State say, hey, Mylan Graham and Quincy Porter left. I guess we have to go in the portal and get some guys. The guys who are there, hey, it just so happens that what they do well is yards after the catch. We have a new receivers coach here. Let's talk about things, and that's leaned into what we do better. And by the way, our best receiver also wants to do this better. Like what. What's chicken or the egg here? Do you think it was a decision and then they recruited in the portal based on the decision, or do you think they got the team together and then realized what maybe they might do well this year?
- [15:01]
Doug Lamorise
I think it was a decision. Part of me wonders and like, I don't think they wanted to lose Myelin Graham or Quincy Porter. I think they'd be very happy to have two, two young, talented, everything in front of them type of receivers. Still, part of me does wonder if Ryan Day or Mark Pantoni or anyone like, looked at the receiver room and said, like, we have a lot of the same guy. We got a lot of. We got a lot of big ball winners, and why don't we go get some. Some different skill set here? And that different skill set is speed because McEwen and Parker are really fast, which then translates to yards after the catch. And they're more like slot body types than they are outside body types. Like, they were just. They were kind of liked on that the last couple of years because even a Mecca Abuka is like, he's like a big slot, right? He's like 6 1, 200 pounds, built like a running back, almost great, great player, obviously, but I think you like to have a diversity of skill set in your receiver room. And I think they were a little light on what McEwen and Parker could potentially bring to the table.
- [16:06]
Steve Smith
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- [16:08]
Doug Lamorise
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- [16:12]
Steve Smith
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- [16:41]
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- [17:16]
Bill Landis
It's interesting, man. Like, everyone loves yards after the catch, right? I. I can remember. I just, I swear, I think it's the only time the great, the legendary Tim May, your friend and mine, friend of the common man, friend of Ohio State football fans when he was working at the Dispatch. I really think, like, the only time it might. What I should ask him about this, that he really wrote something that was in the pages of the Dispatch that was like an opinion that was a strong take and they might even put his name on it, right? Because he was the beat writer. He wasn't a columnist. Tremendous beat writer, but it was about that Ted Ginn Jr. Needed to catch the ball on the move more often. That is like, back to like, they need to get that Ted Ginn Jr's catching the ball standing still too much. And it's like, man, this is like Tim's like, that's 20 years ago. But it's like, hey, can we get the ball to explosive guys on the move? And it's just an interesting conversation here because you're talking about McEwen and Parker as like, slot bodies. But it feels like they're not going to play in the slot. They're going to play outside, which is interesting. And then when we talked to Brandon Ennis the other day, all, not all Brandon, but Brandon Ennis. I've got to be more explosive. I've got to be more explosive. I've got to be more explosive. I'm working on that with Cortez Hankton, which again, leads into this kind of thing. What's explosive? Explosives? Not I have to be explosive and run 60 yards down the field and catch bombs. It's like, I've got to do stuff when I get the ball in my hands And I would say he understands that he didn't do that well enough last year. So there is a large explosion conversation happening in the receiver room right now. And it's interesting.
- [18:48]
Doug Lamorise
Yeah. I'm not surprised by any of it. I think like, and it's hard. We didn't, we didn't go like super hard on it during the season because they were still good. Like Jeremiah and Carnell were playing great and the, the deep ball was really cooking, especially for Carnell.
- [19:01]
Bill Landis
Yep.
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Doug Lamorise
I just think it kind of, it kind of masked some deficiencies a little bit. And that's kind of like the story of Ohio State season. Right. They were so dominant in regular season that I don't think any. Anybody really was like, well what about this, this and this when they play a good team? And then some of that stuff kind of kind of came to a head a little bit. And I think this is one of those things. And, and like we know we saw Miami game. Jeremiah's touchdown against Miami was a run after the catch clinic. But. But there wasn't, there wasn't, there wasn't a whole lot of that last season. And I do think like, it's just a, it's a, it's a difficult way to live if the only way you're exploit ever explosive throwing the ball is when you're throwing it 40 yards down the field. I think especially with the way that they recruit, you need to be able to get some easier swings. I think that turn into something bigger. Yeah.
- [19:52]
Bill Landis
Jeremiah talked about being an Iron Buckeye. We've had a lot of Iron Buckeye conversations. We want to write about it at the sub stack because I, it's like, it's nothing new, but the, just the, the conversations around who the four Iron Buckeyes this off season, I, I think are intriguing. So Jeremiah Smith has continued to be that. It's quite a thing when like. And Ohio State sort of has a history of this one. It's like the best player on your team is the hardest working player on your team. It just, it is something that just lays down a way of doing business in the building that like that guy is more naturally gifted than me. So I should be busting my butt to try to catch up to him, but I can't because he's busting his butt harder than anybody. And Jeremiah Smith has laid this down since he got to Ohio State. Like, and, and we, I think we got accustomed to that with Marvin Harrison Jr. And the way that he worked. But I think it feels like Jeremiah, this is even Elevated beyond that because, like, Marv was like, I'll stay after practice and catch a thousand balls on the jug machine. And Jeremiah Smith is like, yeah, I guess. Well, I'll probably do that too. But also, like, I'm gonna destroy the weight room. And like, as a receiver, there's a.
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Doug Lamorise
There's a little. Yeah, do I want to go down this road?
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Bill Landis
Go.
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Doug Lamorise
There's a little bit of like, what are you doing when the cameras aren't there? Kind of, kind of thing. Right. That I can't help but think about like a little bit, given how Marvin junior's NFL career has gone thus far.
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Bill Landis
You know, jets don't like, come here. I wouldn't use the word performative, but like, it's one of those things because we're all susceptible to it. The wheel. I mean, we love it. It's like, like we come in as the media. We come in after practice, so. And then talk to people. So we don't get to watch practice. So then if guys are sort of still practicing that we get to watch. The media is like, oh, my. This guy. Oh. Cause I watched it and that made it more important. And we all do it. I do it too.
- [22:01]
Doug Lamorise
Yeah, we did it. Guilty of it. How many times I said a Monarch machine during Marvin Harrison's career? I should be getting a check from them. Yeah.
- [22:09]
Bill Landis
And then Jeremiah Smith is just like, yeah, it's 6am And Jeremiah Smith is just like stacking weight in the weight room. It's like, oh, I didn't see that. So they had. There were four winter workout iron Buckeyes and Jeremiah Smith is one of them. And he would just say, like, why is that still important? He said, because I'm still the hardest working person on the team. No matter. Like you said, all the accolades and the stuff I have, you know, the mentality that I have is I'm going to be the hardest working player on my team. I was when I was in high school, I was the hardest working player on my team. And in the NFL, I'm going to be the hardest working player on my team. So it's something that's been that he's done since he's a little kid. And the only thing I do is work hard. It is interesting. Like this guy came in and was. I don't know that we've put JJ's freshman. She's in true freshman season in context. Is he the most impactful Ohio State true freshman since Orlando pace? Like, is that the. Is that the. It's like Pace to Smith like, you come in out of high school and you're ready to start and you're as good as anybody in the country at what you do. And then after that you only get better. I don't know. I don't want to speak, but I
- [23:23]
Doug Lamorise
mean, there have been some other, like Maurice Claret had a great freshman season, but then obviously wasn't able to build on it. So probably. Yeah.
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Bill Landis
Which is again, like we mentioned this when we did a, A Jeremiah segment on around the Shoe the other day. And like, someone brought up, I think Joey Coffman brought up, that Brady Quinn had, you know, uses LeBron James as a comparison because that's the LeBron's. That's the number one part of the LeBron story, is that you are the most talented young player that people have ever seen. And then you don't only live up to the maximum hype, you exceed the maximum hype because your skills are everything that people anticipated. And then you work your butt off. And that's just like rare territory.
- [24:09]
Doug Lamorise
Yeah. And that Cortez Hankton, in one sentence, asked about Jeremiah on Saturday, said LeBron James name, Michael Jordan's name and Kobe Bryant's name.
- [24:21]
Bill Landis
So. So it's like, what is it when you are, when you are gifted with these things and then you are also the hardest working person and it's like, then you're in the top point.01% of people and that's where Jeremiah Smith is. But to hear Jeremiah Smith, because I think it's been compelling the way Brandon deninnis has talked about being an Iron Buckeye in the way that Garrett Stover has talked about being an Iron Buckeye so far that we have talked to this spring. And Brandon Ennis wants to be an Iron Buckeye because he was a starter last year, but he wants to elevate, he wants to do more. And we talked a lot. The fans know it. Brandon Ennis knows it. Brandon Ennis knows it as much as the rest of us. That like last year probably wasn't good. Not. That's not. Probably wasn't good enough. It wasn't good enough for what an Ohio State receiver is expected to do when he has the opportunity to get the ball in his hands. So what's he doing about it? He's trying to be the hardest working guy on the team. Garrett Stover is trying to find his way. Right. He's a third year guy. He hasn't really played yet. He's just trying to like have a chance to make an impact. So he wants to be the hardest working guy on the team. But the guy we haven't talked to yet is Jayla McLean, who was I, I think even in a different spot than Brandon is because Jalen McLean was first year starter last year. It's really good. But now Jalen McLean wants to be a superstar, and I would imagine when, if and when we talk to him about being an iron Buckeye, like, that's what it'll be. Well, I want to go from good to great. Right? So Garrett's. Garrett Stover wants to go from no role to a role. Brandon Ennis wants to go from fine to better than that. Jayla McLean wants to go from good to great. And Jeremiah Smith wants to go from the best we've ever seen to the best that any alien has ever. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's, it's. They're all at different levels, but what they set out to do was, well, I want to be even more than what I am. And the where that starts is in the weight room in the winter, and those are the four guys who are recognized. It's just, I'm. It just. It's not new. That collection of guys is fascinating to me.
- [26:19]
Doug Lamorise
It is really interesting. And I don't, I don't even know how you would do this or even if it's even fair to have this kind of conversation about Jeremiah before he goes to the NFL. But I think everyone understands, like, the burden of, of greatness, and you don't necessarily have to carry that well to still be great. But the, the guys who do, like, really tend to stand out to me. Like, and I would, I would say, like, LeBron is maybe like, number one on that list for me. But, like, Jeremiah has never seemed uncomfortable with any of this.
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Bill Landis
No.
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Doug Lamorise
And like, that is. It's such, it feels like such a rare thing. And I think that's part of what drives him too. It's like, it's like, like whatever. Like, you and I have never been that caliber of anything, but. Right. If it's. It's one of those deals, like, everyone's watching everything you do all the time, and you can choose to do with that whatever you want, but it's. It. You. You can't avoid it. So. And I think Jeremiah understands that and says, like, all right, if everyone's watching me, then I'm gonna show them how to do it. And he's just like, year after year after year, like three years at Ohio State he's done since he was a freshman and he's doing it now in his last year as a junior. And I believe him when he says he's going to do it when he goes to the NFL, because how could you not?
- [27:35]
Bill Landis
So Stephen Beans was asking Jeremiah Smith, like, what he knows about the Ohio State record book. I think that'll be a good conversation for around the Shoe on Monday. I think we will probably try to get into some things statistically, so I think we can save that conversation. Rob Oller from the Dispatch was asking Jeremiah, like, is football easy for you? And he was like, no, like. And again, it's an interesting.
- [27:58]
Doug Lamorise
He had a. He had a better answer than that. He said, I know sometimes I make it look easy. Yes, but it's. But it's not. It's like, yeah, that's a hell of an answer.
- [28:08]
Bill Landis
He said, I was frustrated today. I won't say I had a bad day, but it was just frustrating out there for me and Julian. Like, we just didn't connect a lot today. It's frustrating. It's not easy, for sure. And it's just like, again, like, the guy. It is quite a thing as a young person to have a handle on your greatness. And I think, as you said, he's always had that, but I think you just. Is just. This is one interview session, but this is the last time we're gonna get to see him do this at Ohio State this year. And then he's going to go off into the history books and into the NFL. But I think he hasn't even elevated their understanding of who he is, what he's done, what he can do, what he needs, the work he needs to put in in order to maximize everything out there. And it is just a rare thing to see.
- [29:07]
Doug Lamorise
Yeah, he's got. I was looking up some, like, career receiving stuff and, like, just in the history of college football, too. And like, there's. If he stayed around for four years, I think he can make a real run at some of them, but he's not going to. But he's gonna. Like, even statistically, because I understand. Like, it feels to me like there's a lot of. Like, a lot of more. There's more citizen around these kind of conversations than there used to be. Because you just want to, like, you say, like, oh, this guy. You call a guy a great, which I think Jeremiah is and will be. And I think people immediately start. And I'm not saying Ohio State fans do this, but. But generally, people start looking for reasons to, like, pick at that a little bit. So, like, Jeremiah is not going to be whatever, statistically the best receiver in the history of college football because he's not going to play long enough for that to be the case. But he still got a chance to make it run at Ohio State's record books, as you said, and, and put himself like in whatever, the top 20 statistically in a lot of categories or even something better than that. For a guy who's only played three years of college football in the spotlight the entire time on a team competing for national championships and like, never really failing to rise to the occasion. Like, it's just a, I don't know, I don't know how many different ways you can, you can say it's, it's a bit unbelievable, but it kind of has been these two years with him. And I think this next year will be too.
- [30:22]
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- [30:52]
Alex Canceroitz
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- [31:31]
Bill Landis
So it'll be curious to see if he's able to like ramp up a real Heisman campaign, which is just going to be like, obviously for the history books, a major part of this because I'm looking at the list that, that ESPN did in 2020 for the 150 greatest players in college football's first 150 years. And it's like, it's hard to get in like the top 40 without a Heisman. Right? But I don't know, could Jeremiah Smith go down as like, generally acknowledges that one of the 20 greatest players in the history of college football? I think he could,
- [32:04]
Doug Lamorise
yeah. I mean he should. Yeah, he's, it'll be hard without, without some hardware, I think, whether that's the, the Blitnikov or a Heisman Trophy or, or whatever. But he, I can't remember, was he, is he already a two time All American? Was he an American? Yeah, American as a freshman. Right. This is a two time All American. He'll be, he'll have the James Laurinaitis three time All American distinction. Yeah, I think he's, he's, he's on his way to that. But yeah, a Heisman Trophy, which I think he can win and we'll talk about that more on Monday. What would certainly help cement that.
- [32:37]
Bill Landis
And then it's just one of those things I think you have to acknowledge, right. Like as you're having these discussions, I'm looking at this ESPN list, which again is, I appreciate when outlets do something like this. Archie Griffin was 4. Eddie George is 38. Jack Tatum's 44, Hop Cassidy's 47. Orlando Pace is 51. Right. The idea that like, well, guys at your position don't usually win the Heisman, it's like Orlando pays. Probably should be higher than 51 on a list like this, right? Because it's like, well, he's the best left tackle. Then he went on to be the best left tackle not only in the history of college football, but in the history of the NFL. We've talked about your idea, our plan to rank to do a project on the 100 Greatest Buckeyes. Like, he's got a chance, man, to be we, we, we, we up there, way up there.
- [33:31]
Doug Lamorise
Yeah, we'll see what happens. He's, he's got out. He's got a chance to be one. We'll see.
- [33:36]
Bill Landis
He's got a chance to be one. And at this point, he's not going to win two Heismans this year. But like you, I don't know that. Like, I don't think it has to be that. The discussion begins and ends with Archie's the only guy with two Heisman, he's number one. And it's like, I mean, of course Archie's super high up there, but I don't think that's the only way you have to do that.
- [33:55]
Doug Lamorise
And I think there's a bit of like a, there's like a mythology to it too. And like this Iron Buckeye stuff contributes to it. And like we didn't, whatever, we didn't have that. We didn't have that back in the day, right? So maybe it's a little unfair because maybe Orlando Pace would have been a four time iron Buckeye, but. Right. But I think like, yeah, it's not, it's not only that he, everyone expected him to be great and he was something better than that. But like this, the way that he carries himself, the fact that he's like super famous but like not actually out there all that much creates like, like a little bit like an air of mystery about him too, which I think is compelling. So yeah, he could like, we'll see if he ends up being a two time national champion with a Heisman Trophy, owning all the receiver records. Like, what do we, what do you want? What do we want me to do with that?
- [34:40]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I know. No, I know. Okay. There's two more things I want to talk about. Jeremiah. We do want to talk about Cortez Hankton because we thought Cortez Hankton, the new receivers coach was, was an interesting guy to have a conversation with. Jeremiah. I asked him, I just thought it, it needed to be asked. Did I sort of said like, you know, every college football program in the country would want you. Did you ever. Was there ever any question in your mind that you were going to be at Ohio State for year three? He said, no, I was always going to be at Ohio State. And then a couple people followed up, which was appreciated. And he was asked if he was surprised about teams trying to come after him. He said, no, I wasn't surprised. I knew especially at the end of that game that a certain program was going to come at me very hard. But I'm not going to name names. I think everybody here knows what it is. And obviously that's Miami. But like, I just think you have to. And Bill, it's one of those things we talk about a lot. It's like when you ask a question, it's like, do you have possible answers that like, is there room for there to be an interesting answer there? I thought there was room for that to be an interesting answer about like perhaps being tempted but staying at Ohio State, perhaps doing a PSA for Ohio State, like, why he would never leave. He kept a little shorter than that. And we know he had sort of said on social media during the portal season or after the loss to Miami, like, I'm not going anywhere. But like, that's a tweet's not the same as a conversation. So. Because he could have thought about it. He's from Miami and Miami wanted him. And so again, like, we don't have to go overboard on this. But I don't know. I didn't think there was a zero percent chance, especially with his position coaches leaving his hometown school that he almost went to out of high school, just beat his current school and went to the national championship game. And he might be the guy who could put them over the top. If Jeremiah Smith was on Miami this year, would they be the favorites to win the national title?
- [36:40]
Doug Lamorise
Absolutely.
- [36:42]
Bill Landis
So, like, so whatever. Not knowing Jeremiah, not knowing his family, not. But just like from afar, I was like, well, I think it's. It's possible. Right. Just like the structure of the situation wouldn't kill a guy if he thought about it.
- [37:05]
Doug Lamorise
No, I. I think it's Miami specific. Right. I don't think Jeremiah was going to just put himself on the free market and say, like, I don't know about Ohio State. Let me see what's out there for me. But like, everything that you just described, but the Miami dynamic, you know, I, at the, in, in January, would, if you asked me, like, do you think it's going to happen? I would have said no. But would you, if you asked, do you think it's impossible? I also would have said no. Right. Like, I think we know what the sport's like. We know the. Especially, like, the type of the money Miami throws around.
- [37:32]
Bill Landis
Yep.
- [37:33]
Doug Lamorise
Which, like, by the way, this conversation, I think is a pretty strong endorsement of the money Ohio State's throwing around the keep Jeremiah. That's got to be quite, quite the large number, I would think. No, I think it was a. Yeah, I thought it was a totally fair question given the specific. The specificity of Miami and how Ohio State season ended last year. Yeah.
- [37:54]
Bill Landis
Okay. And then the second thing is, I'm gonna phrase this just as inelegantly as possible so we can just put a snazzy headline on it. Is it not true that Ohio State's best player. Is it at least somewhat primarily responsible for the play that kind of ended Ohio State season with the pick six against Miami?
- [38:20]
Doug Lamorise
Yeah, I think so.
- [38:22]
Bill Landis
And I just don't know if, like, anybody's really wanted to say that. We all saw it. Keonte Scott, the pick six on a bubble screen. Jeremiah Smith is out there, supposed to be blocking. Keonte Scott jumps up. Keante Scott has talked about it a ton. He talked about at the combine, again, that he said it's kind of a film study thing, that he recognized that the play was coming. So if you are a coach and a play caller and there's something on film that like the guy who intercepts the pass is like, oh, yeah, I could tell that was coming and that's why I jumped it. Then it's not only on the players, but Jeremiah Smith, like, was kind of supposed to block Keonte Scott there, right? And he didn't. And Keante Scott changed the game with that pick six. And Jeremiah Smith today said,
- [39:11]
Doug Lamorise
see,
- [39:15]
Bill Landis
It's something that's been in the back of my mind, especially about that play that happened. You can say that play is on me, and it's something I'm going to learn from. It's a humbling moment. And just coming into this off season, I'm going to push myself to exhaustion and never make that play happen again. It's always in the back of my head. And then he was saying, like, that that play was, like, always on his social media and stuff, that kind of thing. But he said, you know, Keontes, Keonte Scott made a great play. He did. Like, we have to say it. We can't be afraid to say it. It's just a weird little thing to be like, oh, what happened? Why did Ohio State lose to Miami? He's like, well, there actually was this play with their best player that kind of got screwed up, and it was a game changer. And we just have to say it. We can't be afraid to say it.
- [40:03]
Doug Lamorise
I don't know why you would be afraid to say it if Jeremiah is saying it right. Like, he's. Have people said it?
- [40:08]
Bill Landis
How many people have you heard say it until today? Like, say it.
- [40:13]
Doug Lamorise
Not. Not a ton, like, in the. In the media. I've definitely seen it on. On social media, but not like, not a lot of people who cover Ohio State. I don't think it. Not like, in those explicit of terms as, like, they dissected the player or whatever. I think it was like, oh, by the way, Jeremiah missed the block.
- [40:29]
Bill Landis
But it wasn't.
- [40:29]
Doug Lamorise
It was. That's not how the conversation started. But that. That answer. The thing. The thing that he said about that plays on me, I'm gonna learn from it. Like, that wasn't in response to that play specifically. Like, Jeremiah went there, so he did go there. It's on. It's on his mind. So, like, that's. It's okay. We. It's not like, you know, we're not sitting here on March 28th saying, all right, everybody, let's retroactively all be mad at Jeremiah now, since we're all comfortable to say it sort of is what it is. But it's a. Yeah, it's a reality of that situation. And, yeah, the player involved in it is the guy who talked about it first? Like, why wouldn't it be on his mind? I'm sure. I'm sure it weighs on them a lot, but, yeah, the guy's made, like, I don't know, three mistakes his career. He did the two drop passes in that missed block, but that missed block was. Was in a pretty crucial moment. Yeah.
- [41:22]
Bill Landis
I mean, there's a lot of things around it, right? It's like, should you. How often should you be throwing bubble screams to where the situation.
- [41:30]
Doug Lamorise
Bad snap.
- [41:30]
Bill Landis
No one talks about that snap off the ground. And wasn't. I think it wasn't the play after a deep shot, but it was like two plays after a deep shot, right? Where, like, guys are maybe kind of still, like, you know, getting their breath, and it's like. It's like, hey, what are you gonna do? And I was like, let's make our best player block on the edge. It's like, okay, I guess. I don't know, maybe throw him the ball and let somebody else block. So there's a lot. I think there's a lot of reasonable. That, you know, but then. But that. Then the response of your best player who makes a mistake, and then his response is, I'm gonna work myself to exhaustion to make sure it never happens again. It's like, okay, but like, I. I find that to be. Because it's like. It's a. There's a lot of questions, right? I mean, everybody. Everybody's asking questions about, like, how does the last year motivate you?
- [42:19]
Doug Lamorise
Whatever.
- [42:19]
Bill Landis
This is not quite, like, 4114, right. Where it was like, the whole team got embarrassed. It's like that stuff happened. They had a shot at the end. They didn't get it done. Miami was pretty good. Maybe some tough matchups. What are you gonna do? But I think it's, like, the most specific driver for him. Right. Everybody's motivated. They didn't go back to back. They didn't achieve their ultimate goal. But it's different for him. And then his response is, I'm gonna work myself to exhaustion. Okay.
- [42:45]
Doug Lamorise
Yeah. Yeah.
- [42:48]
Bill Landis
Cortez, Hankton, what's your review of the new receivers coach who we spoke to publicly for the first time on Saturday?
- [42:54]
Doug Lamorise
Very impressed. Like, obviously, big shoes that he's stepping into. Didn't seem uncomfortable with that in. In the least bit, like, very, very confident, very sure of himself, I think has a clear vision for how. What he wants that room to look like and how he wants it to operate. Embraces the standard and legacy of that room and. And the challenge of carrying that forward. And it just felt to me like he's got a pretty good handle on all of us.
- [43:22]
Bill Landis
So. So two things. They're just some people who are just, like, singing my songs this preseason. It just puts joy in my heart. One is James Smith talking about the SEC versus the Big Ten, but the other is Cortez Hankton talking about that sports and football are supposed to be fun, and he wants to remind people that it's supposed to be fun. And it is this pursuit and this as again, we've every. Every reasonable and I think correct. And. And it is a compliment. Every comparison that you can make between the current version of Ohio State and Nick Saban's Alabama. Right. We think there are a lot of those. And that's part of what James Smith, the Alabama transfer, confirmed earlier this week. A word that you would not use there is fun. I don't know how many words. Like, if you did a word cloud of Nick Saban and fun. I don't even like. It's not there. It fell out of the cloud. It's not in there. There's nowhere in there.
- [44:18]
Doug Lamorise
I mean, there's that on the front part of fundamentals. Yeah, that's it.
- [44:26]
Bill Landis
And I think you can go too far with that. And so I think it's part of our freaky clean scale. Like, it's not the same scale, but part of it is like the. The professional fun scale. And I think they really are leaning towards the professional side, like the being like an NFL team and bringing in these NFL coordinators. And it doesn't mean that Matt Patricia doesn't give guys hugs. Right. But that's like. But still, I don't like. It's like, it's. And. And I think it's even different than juice because, like, I think, like, Tim Walton brings juice, right? And like, back in the day, Kerry Combs brought juice, but not like, I think fun has juice in it. Not all juice is fun oriented because some juice is like, here we go. Like, like, Kerry Combs would be like, kickers aren't humans. Let's go. Let's go. Like, have a great practice. And it's like, that's like a joke, but it's not really about fun. And Cortez Hankton just was saying, like, I'm reminding these guys, like, I want us to have fun while we're working. And I'll just. I say I want to. I mean, it's like, I. I won. Ohio State fan. I saw one of my favorite. I love. I love to Follow educated, dedicated fans on social media. I love the interactions we have here with our substack people. I like to know what fans are thinking. One of my favorite follows on Twitter of a fan already retreated the Cortez Hankton interview and was like, hey, Ohio State fans, this is a great reminder that it's supposed to be fun. And it's like, yes. And as good as this program can be, I'm not sure they need a reminder that it's supposed to be fun. And Cortez Hankton's doing that, God bless them.
- [46:04]
Doug Lamorise
I thought it was interesting that his sort of tangent on that was in his answer to my question about yards after, after the catch. It's like hey, like almost as if like the, the whatever. The, the joy of playing football, the fun of playing football feeds something that you need to tap into if you want to be a receiver who's doing something after the catch, right? So like, I, I do think there's a, there's a juice component there. I don't know what. I don't know which comes first, the juice or the fun. But I do think there's an interplay between the two that, that matters, at least in his. He seems anyway Cortez to want his receivers to like, let their hair down a little bit, right? Like go. It's like you don't. It's a very professional operation in that room and that, that doesn't have to suffer in the name of like being a little loose and having some fun and playing with, with some energy and a little bit of swagger. But I think he's trying to kind of up. Up the level of the ladder so that they both can kind of coexist. And I like, it's not like whatever they were, they were great on the Brian Hart line, but I do think you can go a little too far down that sort of like precise, robotic kind of road in a way that maybe when you're in that you don't. You're not like bringing out every, every possible aspect of your room. Like, you're bringing out a lot of good and you're probably fighting off a lot of bad habits. But there's like, there's like another gear I think that the receiver room can play with that. It probably didn't play with all that consistently, consistently last year that maybe this approach from Cortes, I think can perhaps bring out of them.
- [47:42]
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- [48:13]
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- [48:52]
Bill Landis
We're not doing the thing where it's like, oh, you know what, it's actually a good thing, Brian. It's just they didn't go get another Brian Hartline, right? They got a guy who has a chance, you know, who's a professional receivers coach who has a very worthy resume, who's going to come in and do the job in his own way. And it just feels like we're just talking about some things that are just a little bit different than what Heartline did. And it's not better or worse, it's just different. But I think you stepped away from it. You told the people in our chat that like, like they're good. Like, Brian Hartline is a gigantic loss. But this is why, whenever they don't hire a qualified person, I lose my mind. Because guess what? They lost the best. Brian Hartline's not the best coordinator in the sport. They lost the best position coach in the sport. Brian Hartline as a receivers coach is the best position coach in college football. And they went and hired a very accomplished, respected veteran guy to come do that job, not in the same way, but in his own way. And the results, like, if, whatever, it's like they're good because they hired somebody who's ready for this. And it again is goes back to my thing of there are guys like that out there always, there's always somebody who's qualified to be an assistant coach at Ohio State. You just have to hire him. I have to hire the right one. But what you can't do is hire somebody whose resume doesn't belong here. And that applies to every sport. Cortez Hankton's resume belongs here. And the result is it doesn't feel like a giant gaping wound in the side of Ohio State. It feels like little different, but they're okay.
- [50:40]
Doug Lamorise
Yeah, I think different, different, different flavor for sure. Like in terms of Brian Hartline actually like immediate interviews, like did not tend to give a whole lot away and in fact seem often quite annoyed by. By the fact that he had to do them, which is fine. Whatever. Cortez Hankton was like just kind of like presented very differently. And maybe that's just how you have to be when you're a new guy doing your first press conference in a new place. I. I don't know. But I like. I don't know. They can draw like too, too straight of a line from like sort of how a coach interacts with the media to how they might connect with their players. But I think you can draw a little bit of a parallel just like, how does this guy communicate? And I felt like that was really impressive from court to something. It's like I. Talking to him. I understand why every receiver who's had an opportunity to talk thus far, I said like, we like this guy a lot. Yep. So I, I think. And that's not the only. Whatever marker of success for. For a coach. He's got to recruit. He's got to develop all that stuff and we'll see. I think he will. I think he gets it. And I, I didn't know what the world would feel like, I guess after Ohio State lost Brian Hartline and then we talked to Cortez, acted one time and like you said, I walked away. It's like, they're fine. They'll be all right. Yeah.
- [51:52]
Bill Landis
Yeah. Okay. We're gonna go do a Sunday sound off show for our substack subscribers where we took a lot of great questions. We're going to talk more about the clean freaky scale because we have some convert. We have some questions about that. We're have some conversations about that. The plan will be here on Monday for an around the shoe where I think we'll continue our Jeremiah Smith conversation. We have two practice interview sessions next week and then the third is Student Appreciation Day a week from today on Saturday, where we do believe that we will be in there with the students getting to watch a full practice, which will be an excellent thing.
- [52:33]
Doug Lamorise
Very much looking forward to that day. Not scheduled to talk. Talk to anybody. We'll see. Sometimes in the past we've like gotten Ryan Day for five minutes after that practice, but we're talking the day on Monday or Tuesday. One of those Tuesday, I think. Yeah, Tuesday. Yeah. So it'd be a good week. Tight ends and linebackers, I think are Thursday.
- [52:49]
Bill Landis
So and I do think again for the substack subscribers. I, we, we've talked about it. Bill had the idea about this. I think a week from today we will come and do a live show as soon as we can after the end of that student appreciation practice on the substack feed for substack subscribers. So that would be a great opportunity, if you haven't been a substack subscriber, to maybe come on over and check it out and see what you think. Because I think we'll, we'll take live questions, but we're going to do it for the folks over there as opposed to this feed because we love this feed. But we love that feed and, and that feed. We want to give them that opportunity as well. So, so a live show in the afternoon a week from this from today as we record on Saturday for the
- [53:34]
Doug Lamorise
substack folk, Bill and Doug osu.substack.com where you can still get 18% off an annual subscription.
- [53:43]
Bill Landis
Okay. Good day. Appreciate will the new Sid and everybody at Ohio State that continues. It'd be great to watch practice, but we get it. But it's nice to be able to talk to people about this team. So we appreciate getting to talk to Cortez Hankton and Jeremiah Smith on Saturday. We appreciate you guys being here. We'll see on this feed. We'll see a bunch of you over on the substack for now. He's Bill Landis. I'm Doug Lamorise. And that was the Bill and Doug Show.
- [54:12]
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