← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Ohio State passing game lets it rip as Buckeyes beat Minnesota on wild day of college football
01:14:24
The Ohio State Buckeyes got a primetime home game for the first time in two years and took advantage on Saturday night. They smothered the Minnesota Golden Gophers on defense and let it rip on offense.
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- [00:01]
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- [01:21]
Doug Lesmerises
Come back to the Bill and Doug Show. Ohio State Victoria Victors over the Minnesota Golden Gophers 42 to 3. I thought they had 10.
- [01:29]
Bill Landis
They had three.
- [01:29]
Doug Lesmerises
42 to 3 on Saturday night, Doug Lame Reese and Bill Landis with your postgame show Landis. We talked about it this week. The idea that Ryan Day is maybe urban on the streets, trestle in the sheets. This is Philly Billy on the streets. French Vanilli in the sheets because you're on the street and I'm in a hotel room and we're talking about the.
- [01:49]
Bill Landis
Buckeyes quite literally on the street. I'm sitting out front of my father's home in Northeast Philadelphia because this was the space that was available to me to try to do the podcast. So hopefully not too much outside noise. It's fairly late in the evening, so. And it's not a busy street. But yeah, I'm, I'm sitting on the stoop as they say.
- [02:10]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah. So we're trying to, we're trying to bring you guys interesting talk about, I think an interesting game. Did it feel like there's a lot to talk about here? It all was Ohio State trolling everybody tonight like it's like Ohio State did. This is the undefeated number one team in the country and it felt like anything that you may have questioned along the way and we've certainly discussed things Here with our substack audience, with our YouTube audience and our podcast audience, anything you questioned, it was a little bit of like, you. Like this. Oh, oh, you got special teams questions? Do you. You got your special teams questions. How about a throwback to Lorenzo Styles? Hey, Mr. Fullback, you want to ask. You want to come in my house and ask me fullback questions? Ryan Day says to you, we're turning C.J. donaldson to a fullback and we're handing him the ball. Oh, people wonder if we can take deep shots. How's this. How's about a moon ball from Julian singing? Was Ryan Day trolling everybody tonight? Bill?
- [03:14]
Bill Landis
Yeah. You're welcome for the game plan. Right. Like, it was. Carnell Tate didn't touch the ball enough against Minnesota, he touched it plenty. Or against Washington, he touched the plenty against Minnesota. They, they. They do these things, right? This is not the first time this has happened. I think sometimes it can be rare to see it against a Big Ten opponent, but sometimes Ohio State goes out there kind of, I think, having a pretty strong understanding of what it's going to be able to do to a team. And this was one of those games. So, yeah, they started. They started checking some boxes. And I also think this was brought up. I can't remember if we talked about it or someone on substack might have mentioned it. I think we talked about it. The fact that this was their last home game before Penn State and on the road against Illinois and whatever you think of Wisconsin, like, you just don't want to get, like, into a silly game in Madison. You're probably not going to throw some new stuff out there as a means of breaking tendency, and you want to get some of that out there before you play Penn State. So this was kind of their last opportunity to do that before that game on November 1st. Now that we thought that before Penn State lost the ucla, but. And they did. And they did, too. So I think. I think that was part of it here. But, yes, a lot of the talking points coming off it was like a very good win against Washington. It wasn't like they were hypercritical talking points, but they were addressed in this game. They were definitely addressed in this game.
- [04:39]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah, there's some little things I think that we can get into. We can talk about Jaden Fielding. We can talk about the Q sneak in the presidential package. That didn't. That didn't go so well. But I. But I want to go big picture here, because I think there's two things that I want to discuss overall. One is that on A day when college football goes crazy, right? This is one of those college football days where the conclusion is like, everybody stinks. Oh, Penn State stinks now, and. And Texas stinks. And turns out Florida State beat Alabama, but now Florida State stinks, and Alabama found a way to beat Vanderbilt. But maybe that just means that Vanderbilt stinks, and maybe Alabama still stinks as well. It's one of those things, right? In the. In the land of the blind. The. The. The. What is it? The guy with his eyes closed is a king. I don't know what it is. In the shoeless. In the land of the shoeless, the guy. It's that. That. It's like one of those things. We. We do this, and I think we do it for a reason, and we do it understandably. But it's like, well, Ohio State could be a little bit better at this, and Ohio State could be a little bit better at that, and Ohio State could be a little bit better at this, but at least they didn't lose to ucla and at least they didn't go to Florida, right? I mean, this is. This is programs that are fire coaches, programs that want to fire coaches who are beating two teams that were in the top three in the preseason in Texas and Penn State. And it is a reminder that this sport is hard. This sport takes a while to find your footing, and just when you think you have a guaranteed win, you don't. And it happens all the time. But I think surviving, and not just surviving, Ohio State dominated on Saturday night. But especially to do that in a weekend when so much else blew up is a reminder of how good this team is right now.
- [06:28]
Bill Landis
I feel like on some level, given the way the day went, that nobody would have been happy with sort of like an Exhale game. Just like a game you get through, even if it's a little weird, at least you'll end up on the winning side kind of thing. But then Ohio State avoided that entirely and just kind of had their way with, you know, what a middle of the pack Big Ten team. I'm not saying, like, it's overly impressive to beat Minnesota the way it did, but to rise above the shenanigans of college football, which Ohio State does tend to do, I think quite often in this fashion, was. Was pretty impressive. They just sort of left, no doubt. Like, right. Like, even when Minnesota drives down and gets that field goal, you're like, okay, that's a script to drive. But, but, but, like, is this. Is this something? And like, no, the answer was no, it wasn't and it was apparent that the answer was no, at least on the defensive side almost immediately. And it took two drives for the offense to show you that the answer to that question was no, but just emphatic like greatness from Ohio State on. On a day when that felt elusive to a lot of other very good teams.
- [07:27]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah, I'm not trying to sell substack subscriptions right now, but Jason in the chat is asking suggestion for the next buy week. Compare 2015 Ohio State to 2025 Ohio State. This team feels like they just have a different mentality. We did that on one of our substack only shows for two hours three weeks ago and it is a great comparison. But I think this like because of that. Because that 2015 team kind of played with its food but like not in a purposeful way. And I think almost anything Bill, that this Ohio State team, if you think they haven't done or they haven't done that along the way, there's almost been a purpose to it. And then you saw it tonight and are like what happens when they let it go. And Ryan Day, I'm sure a lot of you guys saw it did say after the game on the TV interview on the field, we wanted to let Julian let it go. You and I. Bill talked about that during the week again because of what you said, they're not going to have another home game before Penn State. Are you going to go tell him to let it go? And camp Randall like I think you needed to see Julian saying let it rip a little bit. And then he did. But, but here's. Here's. Here's my other point. And there's some stat. There's a stat. There's a crazy stat that I want to throw out here. That first drive, the way Ohio State played defensively, right. They're just gonna. There they. They forced Minnesota to play almost perfect football. And Drake Lindsay did. Drake Lindsay completed his first seven passes. They march right down the field. They have a 25 yard pass to a tight end in the middle of the zone. That is one of those plays that it makes the few hairs left on PJ Flex head stand on end, right? This is the best Minnesota can be. They are perfect. And then they get down there and they maybe try to hit a throw on a throwback and it's not there. They throw it out of bounds. A third down throw that maybe could have been caught. It's not the moment. They're not perfect. They're held to a field goal instead of a touchdown. And that Ohio State defense is saying, we're going to dare you to be perfect and we're going to make you be perfect. In the moment, you're not perfect, you're dead. And when you are perfect, you get three. And then a lot of other defenses, Bill, have tried to do that to Ohio State. They don't want to get beat deep. So they say to Ohio State, okay, we don't want to get beat deep. We want to make you be perfect. And then Ohio State is perfect and they are happy to march down the field that way. And it is the perfection challenge that Ohio State's do it. Ohio State's defense will do it to an opponent, and inevitably that opponent's going to fail. Opposing defenses not wanting to give up big plays will do it to Ohio State and Ohio State will succeed, will achieve repeated perfection. And then after a while, I think you're like, well, they're just going to march down the field anyway. We better try something. And now here comes the Carnell Tate moonball. Right. So we saw this like you see Minnesota kind of winding up his situations that second. I don't want to get into that one yet. The second one is just like, it felt like a warm blanket, but. Right, Bill, it's like that, that thing. If you want to make somebody be perfect and they're not, you win. If, if you're, if someone else makes you be perfect and you are, they eventually give up. And I thought that showed out tonight on both sides of the ball.
- [10:31]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I don't disagree. I think Ohio State too, is, is good and sometimes it takes a little while, but I say more often than not, seems to figure it out. Right. Like in, in. In battling that sort of like be perfect game plan from whichever defense they might be facing. There are times where like it takes a drive or even a half for them to figure it out. But they do like, it even felt like that a little bit against Washington last week. Right. Like they were kind of feeding into it a little bit. And Ohio State does, does do that sometimes. But then the second half, we're just like, we're going to throw it and we're going to beat you and you know, I'll go high, say credit today. Like, I, I don't know that the offense really ever felt like it was kind of on the back foot in this game. I know they didn't, they didn't finish that first drive the way they wanted to, but otherwise it was pretty good, I guess. The other Keen Holtz first short yardage play the other Timer got kind of wonky, but it's not, you know, part. Part of it is like, of course Ohio State is better at this than Minnesota. They have much better players across the board. But I also think that there's something there, like coaching staff wise and player acumen wise to figure out whatever that might be on the fly. Like, I don't know that this was the greatest test of that for Ohio State's offense, but we've seen other games where that was the case already this year, where they have kind of cracked whatever they need to crack to. To score whatever they need to score to win the game. And that's a nice thing to have the fallback on. I do think you wrote about it last week. I do think that's a sign of maturity. This was more. I don't know, there was some maturity in this game, I guess, but this was more just like, we are significantly better than you and we know it and we're going to show it to you.
- [12:09]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah. Which is. And I think part of it is like, knowing. Knowing, like, when. Like when you can do that, right? When is it time to let it rip? Right. When is it. When is it appropriate? And I think they have a very good handle. And I think the weird thing of it is they, I do think know when to do what. And sometimes you and I, or educated, dedicated Ohio State fans are like, isn't the time now? And it's like, nope, nope, not yet. It's not time now. And that can be very frustrating. There's two. There's two touchdowns that I want to talk about in particular, because I want to stay on the offensive side of the ball before we get to the defense. So they have a third and one that inside their own 20, where they do go to a fullback look. And they put C.J. donaldson at fullback in front of Bo Jackson, I believe. And you were asking fullback questions this week, and one of the things that you and I had talked about and that you were writing about, it's like the idea of when they put Nate Roberts in as a fullback, he's a freshman tight end. And Ryan Day says, well, you have to be versatile. You have to be an option here. It's like, well, Nate Roberts can go out for a pass there besides just block, but you're not going to hand him the ball as the first guy through as a fullback. So actually he doesn't have that versatility. So then what do they do? They line up CJ Donaldson, their hammer running back, as the fullback and hand him the ball and they convert it on a CJ Donaldson second effort. Do you think Ryan Day was trolling you in particular with that play call?
- [13:44]
Bill Landis
Maybe. So it actually, it wasn't Bo Jackson, it was Carnell Tate behind.
- [13:50]
Doug Lesmerises
And they did that.
- [13:51]
Bill Landis
Oh yeah. And they did that. They did that twice. Like I noted it immediately and I was like, oh, I wonder what's going to come of that. And I think maybe the game just got to the point where Ohio State kind of stuck that in its back pocket and didn't show us what that was going to become. And otherwise like they did. That was. Everything about that look was similar to the look that they got in last week against Washington when Donaldson did punch it in. And when Donaldson caught the pass late out of the backfield, he's like in like a. On the hand, on the ground, like offset position. But last week against Washington, there was no one behind him. This week it was Carnell tape behind him. So was it trolling? Maybe, Maybe. And I would give Ryan Day all the credit in the world if it was trolling. I, I appreciate that.
- [14:34]
Doug Lesmerises
And Brian Hartline, and I don't mean to say only Ryan Day, Brian Hartline's calling plays right through.
- [14:38]
Bill Landis
And Brian Hartline. Yeah, they don't. The thing, I remember the fullbacks this week, like, they, they don't have that guy on the roster. So actually, unless they want to like put Kaden Curry there, but they're not going to do that because Kaden Curry is too valuable on defense.
- [14:53]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah.
- [14:54]
Bill Landis
So the only way they can really get to that, I think, is by using CJ Donaldson in those roles. He leaves something to be desired with his pad level still, even when he was running in short yardage today. So I don't, I, I'm hesitant to say they found something there, I guess. Yeah, it worked against Minnesota. It worked against Minnesota. I, I don't. I actually thought the things in short yardage that looked the best today were when they just let Bo Jackson do it and he ran through an arm tackle and then they had that drive after the punt return where they got down to the 20 and it was three plays all, all to Bo Jackson, including a four yard run in the five yard run, kind of like in the mess down in the short red zone where he just ran through people and scored a touchdown. So funny. If it was trolling, I'm not entirely sure that's the answer. Again, I think the answer might be more just like Bo Jackson is RB1. Bo Jackson started, Bo Jackson got the bulk of the carries and Bo Jackson also looked the best in Troy Artage in this game, so he's just their best running back, so they should use him in every and all situations.
- [15:54]
Doug Lesmerises
Well, that's one of those. It's like you can talk about breakaway speed with Bo Jackson and it feels like, okay, like if Peoples is sort of like the guy to give Jackson a break. Donaldson is more the short yardage guy. But really like Jackson is the best short yardage guy. But I called it an explosion sandwich on three pieces of fullback bread that they went from that little handoff to C.J. donaldson that converts the third and one. The next play is the moonshot deep ball to Carnell Tate for 48 yards. The next play after that is the little throw in the middle of the field to Jeremiah Smith who just like explodes like he shot out of a cannon for 31 yards. And then they hand it to C.J. donaldson twice in a row and he runs behind Nate Roberts as the fullback. And so you go fullback involved, big play, big play your two best receivers. Fullback involved, fullback involved. And you get a touchdown. And that is like the, that is always lurking right, that 48 yard Carnell Tate shot. I'm not saying it's always there, but if defenses are taking it away, they'll do other things. But like the moment it's there, they are ready to take it. And we've seen the times this year when they've called those plays and Julian saying maybe hasn't taken it maybe a few times early when he should have. But I, I, it's not that they don't want to do it, it's that they're waiting for the right time and like, hey, we converted a third and one short yardage. That's awesome. That's kind of, kind of a thing we need to be good at. Here comes a deep ball right on his hands. Like it's just the two ends of the spectrum where right on top of each other. And it's quite a reminder for a defense man.
- [17:28]
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- [18:45]
Bill Landis
I don't think there are many teams that could, that could put that particular sequence of plays together, right? Like how, how many. And, and we can. I, I think we'll continue to analyze the short yarded stuff and whatever the fullback package is and whether or not there's those are the best things for Ohio State to do given its personnel. But by and large it was effective in this game. So like to play big, to run like insert run plays and then drop a bomb on you for 48 yards and then throw the ball to the freakiest receiver in college football. He slips two tackles and takes it down inside the five. It's like, what are you supposed to do? And it did feel like Minnesota came into the game saying like, all right, I guess we'll try to stop the run and see what happens. And then they kind of, they kind of did for the most part. And Ohio State just threw it all over them because it's hard to take everything away from this team when they decide to utilize its outside skill the way that it did in this game, including Max Clark, who had five catches. Right.
- [19:42]
Doug Lesmerises
And so then the second one I want to talk about is under center 12 personnel play action, deep shot, which is just what makes the world go round. Except they added some Jeremiah Smith motion to it that was like they show they did a good job. NBC showed the replay. It was like a conga line of four defenders. It was like at four different levels, like bing, bang, boom, boom. All running with Jeremiah Smith. And they may as well have just stopped it and done like the, the word bubbles above their head where they were like oh f. As soon as Jeremiah Smith on the motion was not getting the ball. And there, there's not even, there's not even a deep safety. It's like 10 guys by the, there's one guy one on one with Carnell Tate on the other side of the field. He was beaten by nine yards. I don't know that I've seen a guy like. You don't see a guy get that beat that deep. But it's not that guy's fault. He's just a man. He's doing the best that he can. But that setup, right, you add right play action, 12 personnel under center, deep shot. Come on, what's better than that? Unless you add Jeremiah Smith motion to it to draw the entire defense.
- [20:52]
Bill Landis
Yeah. Sprinkle a second run fake on top of it to the best player in the sport is not a bad thing to do. I don't know that I've seen that many people bite that dramatically and wrongly on a play action fate before. And also credit to Carnell Tate. He ran a heck of a route on that play, too. Like, you're right, that guy was the defender. Never really stood a chance. Because I think even if he covered Carnell Tate well, you know, the right throw, Carnell Tate still, still catches it. Right. But Carnell kind of like spun him around and then just waited for that thing to beautifully drop into his hands as he walks into the end zone. While the rest of the Minnesota defense was preoccup Maya Smith. Again, it's one of those things you put in the box of, like, what are you supposed to do? I do think Ohio State has tried to get into those things. Like, we've had this conversation, like, are they explosive? Are they trying to be explosive? I would say they have tried to be. Including a lot of plays that don't look exactly like that one. But play action shots to the two, you know, the two of the best five receivers in college football, the defenses haven't given the opportunity to hit on. But I would also say that with the exception of perhaps one or two plays this year, I feel like they hit on it every time it's there. And that's kind of all you can ask, right? Like, I. I don't want Julian saying necessarily forcing the ball in a double and triple coverage just because Ohio State happened to call a shot on that particular play. And he's done a really good job of avoiding that. But whether it's the, you know, grambling in Ohio or one thing, but like, Texas and Washington didn't really give opportunities to throw those passes. Minnesota did in Ohio State smoked them with them. Right. So as long as they do that, as long as. As long as they are connecting on them when they're there to be connected on, then I feel pretty great about where the passing offense is. Whether, like, it's explosive or not game to game.
- [22:43]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah. And that's the thing. I don't. Like, I don't know. I don't think that you and I were having conversations of like, this is a problem. It's just like, are they looking for it enough? Right? It's like they are. And then Again, Julian Sands, 9 of 9 on passes of 20 yards or more down the field coming into this, he hits the one to Tate. He hits the second one to Tate. I guess he has his first incompletion because they tried that sideline shot to Jeremiah Smith that actually I thought was a pretty well thrown ball. Jeremiah Smith ran a pretty good route and John Nestor, who's a pretty good corner, just ran with it and made a play on the ball. But I didn't think Ohio State really did anything wrong there. But I guess it's Julian Saiyan's first and maybe only deep ball incompletion of the year. And the rest. Killer. Killer.
- [23:29]
Bill Landis
I think it's his own. Yeah. So then he'd be like.
- [23:32]
Doug Lesmerises
So he's like 11 for 12.
- [23:36]
Bill Landis
There's a one day.
- [23:41]
Doug Lesmerises
No, Ryan Day says they want to be 50 on those. And like you go through college football and T and quarterbacks all over the place on throws of 20 yards or more like 30. And he's 11 for 12.
- [23:52]
Bill Landis
Yeah. And I didn't. There was like some conversation this week about saying being afraid to let it rip when it's time to let it rip. And I'd like mad just like thought was wrong. And then I think he backed that up today.
- [24:05]
Doug Lesmerises
So I don't know. There were people. We had a lovely. And again, for. For those of you watching on YouTube and on podcast, we have a substack chat on Our Substack subscription billanddugosu.substack.com that you can certainly join us on. And we have that. We had that chat going during the game. We have like thousands and thousands of comments on there.
- [24:23]
Bill Landis
Bill.
- [24:24]
Doug Lesmerises
I will say I'm not up on the memes. I'm not up on the gifts. I don't really know what the kids are doing out there. But people were saying that there was that conversation about Julian saying. And the deep ball and perhaps questions. I don't know if it raised to the level of criticisms about it and I missed it. I don't know what peop. I have no idea what people are talking about. What are they talking about? Who's having that conversation?
- [24:50]
Bill Landis
It was mainly one place that I saw it was college football nerds that it's a YouTube show. And they were talking about like, air yards and how Julian saying doesn't throw the ball X amount of air yards down the field. I can't remember exactly what it was. And then they were like going back and forth to people and like, well, we're charting from the line of scrimmage, not from where the quarterback actually throws the ball. Like, it was like a totally. It's just a conversation to get like way out of control. That seemed off base from the jump. I actually think a lot of, like, whatever mainstream college football national media has been pretty in on the Julian saying experience so far. But there was a little bit of does this guy throw the ball down the field enough or is he timid? Conversation this week. And I think he showed us tonight that he's not timid.
- [25:35]
Doug Lesmerises
I mean, the Oregon offense for three seasons has operated on throws three yards past the line of scrimmage. Like, I don't know what, right? He's not Dylan Gabriel. Julian saying it's not Dylan Gabriel. Nobody thinks that, right?
- [25:49]
Bill Landis
No, I don't. I don't think so. They just look at passing charts. I think. I. I don't know. Like you. I could look at a passing. You can look at a passing chart for Julian saying and not watch a second of the game. And I think perhaps reasonably come to the conclusion that he doesn't throw the ball down the field enough. But I think if you watch him, you'd understand why and you'd understand that when the opportunities are there, he does more often than not take them. And he's also, by the way, getting better by the week, like with the off script stuff, right? Like with having the scramble and fine guys on the sideline. Like that throw was it to Tate when Tate made that incredible catch on the sideline, when he went full extension. Like Julian saying, I might. It's hard to compare all Ohio State quarterbacks, right, like, holistically. But I think you can, like, pick out certain things you might say, like, this guy is the best at this thing. Julian saying, rolling to his left, squaring his shoulders and ripping a pass with pace on target. He might be the best at that that I've seen from Ohio State quarterbacks.
- [26:53]
Doug Lesmerises
Hands and toes catch from Tate, that was awesome. He had another one to Claire too, on the sideline on like a roll. And you can see it's like there's so much that's in rhythm in the passing game when it's on like this and it was on all night. And then the few times it gets out of rhythm. He's solving problems now, which again is like you don't, you don't have to solve a problem by like running and putting your shoulder into somebody. But 23 of 27 for 326 and three touchdowns. That a lot. That is mostly timing, play call, guys getting open, accuracy, processing. But there's a little bit of ingenuity in there. That. And then by the way, he had that one in the middle of the field where a guy, he had a guy right in his face and he got planted and he stood in and actually like when he released it, I was like, oh man. Is like he didn't quite get everything on it because there was someone plugging him in the dirt. But he completed it. I think he knew he had a little bit of space to work with. There was really no underneath there coverage there or anything. But again, like, Ryan Day is going to go home and re watch that thing. Seven times of Julian saying standing in and taking a hit and making a throw down the field.
- [27:58]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I bet that that's Ryan Day's favorite play from this game. And I thought too, even watching it at full speed live first blush, I thought you could see the moment where Saiyan realized he was going to get hit and hung in there anyway. He could have like turtled or tried to run away and throw the ball out of bounds. But I think he like saw Max Claire open, saw to the fender, brought his eyes back up and is made to throw knowing he was going to get planted. Yeah, really, really tough throw at a time of the game where like it didn't necessarily call for it, but you just want that to be second nature, I think in your quarterback too. So it was a clean shot. He fell right on his body, kind of popped right back up. They ran the ball in the next play and then he was good to go. But yeah, if you want to, the scrambles he had last week and some of the hits he took there, the hit he took on the sideline in this game and he popped back up and then getting hit square in the chest and delivering that ball 29 yards down the field, like those are all things I think Ryan Day would put into his toughness category. Yeah.
- [28:56]
Doug Lesmerises
And I did think one of the things I thought maybe coming out of his hand, I expected it to not have as much on it as it did because he had the guy on top of him. And then again, I don't think he had max velocity on that throw, but he had enough. He had enough. And I think maybe other Guys in that spot, other quarterbacks, maybe your release isn't quite as quick. Right. So you don't have to be 65 to stand in there and take that hit. You get it out fast, you diagnose it. You get it out fast, you're willing to take it, and you can see what happens there. Great game. By Julian saying. And again, like, this is what Carnell Tate did tonight is planting seeds all over the place. And like, we don't want every conversation we have to be as Carnell Tate, the second best receiver in the Big Ten, but maybe that should be the conversation we have because, like, just what he does tonight. And Ryan Day is talking about, like, he's blocked all year, and we all know that. And. And he does a lot of things when he doesn't have the ball in his hand. And then between, like the deep ball, he doesn't drop stuff. Like, he's just. He's. If you give him a shot, he. He takes advantage of it. But the deep balls and then the hands and toes catch falling out of bounds on the sidelines. He's such a receiver at this point.
- [30:02]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I mean, I would. I think it's more like I see a second best receiver in the country. Conversation.
- [30:08]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah. I don't think. I think the conversation, if we want to try to make it a Denzel Boston or a Nick Marsh or a Jakari Lemon or, no offense to that USC guy. I can't remember his name. Like, I get it, but I think it's over for now until further notice.
- [30:22]
Bill Landis
It's.
- [30:23]
Doug Lesmerises
I mean, it's. It's not a conversation anymore. You're right. It's. It's. No, we're going national to have that conversation.
- [30:29]
Bill Landis
Right. And it's a credit to Carnell, who I've said before, like, I thought was very good last year, but it's just, he's. He's taken incredible leaps this year with the ball, without the ball, after the catch. I think his route running is more precise this year. He is. He is just really blossomed into a pretty special receiver. And I'm. I'm interested to see, like, moving forward because clearly Minnesota was like, well, we'll throw guys at Jeremiah Smith and hope that Carnell Tate doesn't kill us. And he did. And he's done that often in his career over the last year and a half. I'm wondering if there's anything moving forward where teams start to give him a little more respect and then you see Jeremiah start to get some of these opportunities one on one. More down the field, too. I think Ohio State's done a really good job of making sure that Jeremiah Smith still gets the ball, given all the attention that he's receiving. But there's clearly a difficulty, I think, with trying to get him the ball down the field a little bit. But maybe the emergence, the continued emergence of Carnell Tate is something that could. And Max Claire in the middle of the field is something that could open up some more of those opportunities for Jeremiah.
- [31:34]
Doug Lesmerises
But also, and it's one of those. I'm also maybe at the end of my. Does Brandon and this need to be involved in the offense conversation. I think two and a half's enough when the two are Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate. And tonight CARNELL Tate had 10 targets, nine catches for 183. Jeremiah Smith had nine targets, seven catches for 67. And then here comes Max Claire, six targets, five catches for 63. So you have to feed those two guys. They are doing it. We have seen it not be the case in the past where it's not necessarily the case that Ohio State's best players are the guys getting the ball the most often. That is one that has been the case every game. Even when it's like, oh, Carnell Tate, them. Well, Jeremiah Smith did right. They have not had a game where they've like had both those guys be taken away. So I just don't know that I care about anything else because it doesn't matter because Tate and Smith are enough to counterbalance each other and tie defenses and knots. And then if you want an outlet, if you want a little bit of a middle of the field threat, if you want, okay, this isn't there. Where do I come down to the second level? And now if Max Claire can be that, that's two and a half. That's enough. Like, I'm just not going to have any more conversations about like getting the ball to other people because the, the problem conversation is Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate aren't getting the ball enough. And that is not where this offense is. So everything else is extraneous.
- [33:07]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I, I'm more or less with you. I guess the only thing I would say in addition to that is maybe there was one or one or two places they were. Felt like they were. They were drawing it up so that Brandon Ennis could get the ball. Like, we don't. I don't think Ohio needs to do that anymore. If he's, if he's out there and the ball finds its way to him via the progression, great but anything that is like, we need to draw something up to get the ball into this guy's hands, that is not for Jeremiah Smith or Carnell Tate is just like a wasted down at this point. So, yeah, I guess we'll monitor to see if Ohio State tries to work in more of those. In his touches or not.
- [33:45]
Doug Lesmerises
And run game, as you mentioned, Bo Jackson, 13 for 63 and a touchdown. James People, seven for 59. That included Long of 33. And then C.J. donaldson was a short yardage back tonight. Three carries for three yards. And they were all three. And they were the fullback, piece of slices of bread, that was it. He did not get the ball otherwise. I think there is. Right. I just. There is. There is no point in having Bo Jackson have 20 carries in a game like this. Thirteen is enough. But if that is that officially where we are, Bo Jackson's the guy. Peoples gives him a breather. C.J. donaldson a short yardage until Bo Jackson takes over the short yardage, too.
- [34:26]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I mean, this is sort of like clearly defined as it's felt since Bo Jackson took over as, as RB1. Like, I felt that way too. I was like, oh, I guess. I guess CJ Donaldson is just situational now. I think they. I think they like people's like, I think. I think they see real upside with him, and it's not clicked yet, but I, I do believe they're going to keep giving him opportunities for it to maybe click. And he ran, you know, he ran really hard at the end of the. At the end of the game, showed some good bursts against a rundown defense. Maybe that's it. But he's not to the point where he's going to be, you know, like, even with carries with Bo Jackson. But they need somebody, I think, to definitively take that number two running back role. And it felt like they were giving Peoples the chance to do that. And I thought he was okay tonight. And then he used Donaldson in short yardage. Saw Isaiah West a little bit in the third quarter. I think I like him, actually. He looks pretty good, I think, but I don't know that he's actually going to be part of the conversation this year. So it's Jackson all the way. And they'll have to be smart about what they do with him because he had 13 carries, but he had, what, two catches? So 15 touches total or something like that.
- [35:43]
Doug Lesmerises
One catch?
- [35:43]
Bill Landis
Yeah, yeah.
- [35:46]
Doug Lesmerises
1474.
- [35:48]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think. I think 14, 15 touches in a game like this makes sense so that you have them available for 25 touches against Penn State and Michigan. Right. So. And I think, I think that is how they'll continue to operate this with the hopes that maybe James Peoples figures it out a little bit.
- [36:08]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah, I think that makes sense. You want to go defense a little bit?
- [36:13]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [36:14]
Doug Lesmerises
All right. Before we do, I would just let you guys know that if you want to check out some, some pretty sweet Ohio State gear, you could head to roback.com r h o b a c k.com we have a code for you. If you put in bad 20, that's bad 20, you'll get 20% off your first order. I've said this like I know a lot of you guys have great Ohio State gear. You have T shirts and hoodies and stuff. Sometimes it's cool with anything to have like the best thing like, oh, this is like my really good Ohio State quarter zip or my really good Ohio State hoodie. Roback. It's just a place where you can like go look around there on their game day collection and see if there's stuff you like because it is. It kind of has that kind of vibe to it. So again, it's Roback. R H O b a c k.com b a d20 for the code will save you 20%.
- [37:03]
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- [38:20]
Doug Lesmerises
Can I give you my favorite stat of the night?
- [38:24]
Bill Landis
Please do.
- [38:26]
Doug Lesmerises
Drake Lindsey on the first drive 7 of 9 for 64 yards Drake Lindsay the rest of the game. 8 of 17 for 30 yards. Wow.
- [38:36]
Bill Landis
I didn't realize it was that stark. Like you felt it watching it. But that's, that's pretty ridiculous.
- [38:41]
Doug Lesmerises
15 of 26 for 94 yards is where he finishes. And this is what I'm talking about from the perfection standpoint. That. And it's actually, I was like this is what Ohio State does every week. But it's like this is actually like the first time that they let somebody score on the first drive. You know, Texas moved the ball a little bit, they stopped it on downs. They forced Washington punt last week. But like I thought it's, it's, it's like AI, like you can see it learning in real time, you know, of like. Okay, well we gave him this and.
- [39:09]
Bill Landis
Listen really well said.
- [39:11]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah, he, he's. His throws. He hit his first four throws. He was started off 4, 4. They were for 5, 5, 4 and 6 yards. Which is simultaneously a credit to Drake Lindsay, a first year starting quarterback, a second year college football player who's taken what's there and moving the ball down the field. Great. Then he hits a 25 yarder to the tight end over the middle. And it looks just like a great big hole in the middle of that zone. Rush three, drop eight right. That happens sometimes. And then he has a nine yard completion and a 10 yard completion. But the result is the field goal. And then that's it. And so again I, you know, in the chat we all react in the moment. It's like, oh man, here we go again. Low possession game. They're just gonna let them march right down the field. But it's just, it's just a test. It's a test for the Ohio State defense. Almost like a double check. It's like an extra film study. We're gonna do live film study. We've studied it all week now. Let's put ourselves in there. This six, five guy, they'll run some play action. But like what's really happening? And then it's a test of Drake Lindsay, can you do this? And he could do it for 10 minutes. And then after that he couldn't do it anymore. And it's just again the way this Ohio State defense operates, Bill, it's like. And that's a victory. I think you let a march like let them, they, they credit Minnesota march down the field. They only get three and then like that's it. That was their peak and it was over. I thought maybe they'd have another peak or two. I Thought maybe Minnesota would move it a little bit. Maybe I'll stop thinking that. But even, like, even in that. I thought that was the Ohio State defense at work, even in giving up a 13 play, 66 yard drive, because I feel like it had a purpose.
- [40:46]
Bill Landis
Yeah. I think what you said there about it being like AI is well said. Right. It's like, it's this like living organism that. Yeah. Just adapts over time to what it needs to. If we talk about these opening scripts. Right. And that was what that was for Minnesota. But there's also an element on the defensive side of Ohio State, I think because it's so confident in its ability to stop teams in the red zone, that it's. It is. Content is not the right word. But. But I think as a matter of strategy, it just like sits back a little bit and says like, okay, what do you think you. What do you think you know about us? And then that team puts that on display and Ohio State takes that information in and then you just can't do it again. And it's like, what do you got next? And a lot. And a lot of teams just don't have a next against this defense. It has been remarkable. I think in every game that that has sort of happened. You know, it's not. I get that those drives can be a little frustrating. I would say that it's born out of an unrealistic expectation of perfection if they. If they are truly frustrating outside of that particular moment. Because 98 of what Ohio State's defense puts on the field is like darn near perfect, like a lot of the time. So, yeah, just like, I don't know, it just felt like they smothered him. After that, they couldn't run the ball. They even got their best running back in there and Darius Taylor and still couldn't run the ball. And we had another offensive line that, like, didn't seem to have much in the way of answers for what Ohio State's putting out there schematically with its fronts and just a defense that looked pretty comfortable after that first drive, which is. And it's looks pretty comfortable all year.
- [42:27]
Doug Lesmerises
We're not listening to the post game coaches news conference. Seek is in here saying that PJ Flex at Ohio State ran base defense the whole first drive. The second series, it all changed.
- [42:39]
Bill Landis
Nice.
- [42:41]
Doug Lesmerises
I don't know why Minnesota called a timeout before its first offensive play. I don't know if it was just so loud, but I thought maybe it's because they were afraid of Arvel Reese and they Weren't sure he's allowed to line up the way he was lining up. Do you know why they call the timeout before their first offensive play?
- [43:02]
Bill Landis
I don't. No, I don't have. Unless. Unless. Yeah. The only thing I could imagine is that it was loud and, like, they didn't feel like they got everything communicated the way they need to otherwise. But our Val Reese does have an impact on people, so I don't want to take it away from him. Maybe that's what it was.
- [43:18]
Doug Lesmerises
So I. And it's not like the first time he's done it, but they were playing what Minnesota, like, came out in the first play with 12 personnel, I think maybe even three tight ends. And so Ohio State had Peyton Pierce on the field. They had three linebackers on the field, and they were like, okay, you're gonna do this. We're gonna have Peyton Pierce play middle linebacker, and Arvell Reese is gonna stand over here like a rush end. Like, over one of your tight ends. And he's a linebacker. Then. He would do that a lot the rest of the game. Whenever they had 12 personnel, if there was two tight ends in, they'd have Pierce playing middle linebacker, and then Reese would be up on the line, and then he'd drop a lot. But also from there, he very quickly can come and get after the quarterback. And it just is. I said it's almost like a punishment for playing 12 personnel. It's like, this is what you get. You want to do this. You want to put two tight ends in the field. Arvel Race is going to. Arvell Reese is going to line up three and a half steps from your quarterback's face. So do you want to. Would you like to put a third receiver on the field now and maybe he'll go back to middle linebacker? You've done this to yourself. This is your choice. But it is quite a reaction that it's just like, okay, Peyton Pierce here, you stand there and make sure the defense is set, and Arval is going to go over here and scare people.
- [44:29]
Bill Landis
He's the boogeyman, right?
- [44:31]
Doug Lesmerises
He's.
- [44:31]
Bill Landis
He's. He's picked up the mantle from. From Caleb Downs. It's incredible. The. The. It's not, as I hesitate to say, singular impact because there's so many good defensive players on this team. But I don't know. I don't know that I've seen a guy, like, cause as much confusion or, like, worry with opposing offenses. I guess Chase Young is probably the last one. Yeah, just like that. Kind of dominant force like you. Just like you say yourself, like, well, we don't have anybody that can stop him one on one. So we're kind of terrified of what he could do at any and all times. That is the type of player that Arval Reese has become. Ohio State fans have known that about him from the jump this season. The rest of the college football world, as we, as we mentioned earlier in the week, is starting to figure that out. But this was another game where even on the plays where he's like, like, quote, unquote, like, not doing anything, he is having a tremendous impact because everyone they play is truly terrified of what that man is capable of and what he might be doing.
- [45:33]
Doug Lesmerises
They really are. There was a play, I think it was like a third down throw that Lorenzo Styles broke up because they lined up and then they do this. So Curry, once Kenyatta Jackson got hurt, they were doing like, usually Curry's inside on the past rush downs, right? Curry's over. And then they have Jackson and Bo Atkinson. They were doing a couple other things, but there was one. There was one where, like, they kept Will SM the field and they kept him in as a tackle. And so Curry was on the edge, but then they had Curry, like, on the as. Like the right defensive end. And then Reese lined up outside of him. So it was Curry and Reese next to each other over the left tackle on the left guard. And so Curry went and sort of. And then Reese, like, dipped inside of Curry and the left guard was like, I guess I'm over here trying to help on Kaden Curry. Here comes our Valeries. Oh, my God. And he did not get to him. And Arvell Reese was like, shot out of a cannon right at Drake Lindsay, and he was like, I gotta get rid of the ball. And then Lorenzo Styles broke it up or it wasn't. It's just again, like some of the pairings and the options that they have, the. The equity that you gain, it's one of those things where they rush three a lot, but they are rushing four in the hearts and souls of the offense. Because Arvell Reese, I think, doesn't actually have to rush for them to feel like he's rushing. Because the fact that he might rush is like him rushing sometimes because you prepare for it. And then you might wind up with like an offensive lineman or two blocking air. So you get. It's like you have an extra player on the field because you have the ghost of Arvell Reese rushing and then you have the real Arvell Reese Dropping in coverage. And as long as you bring him enough to times a game to keep the ghost alive, you get to play with 12.
- [47:28]
Bill Landis
Well, that's why we've seen such a, I think, a hard turn toward like simulated pressures kind of at all levels of football. But Ohio State has not always done that because Ohio State for the longest time was like, we got four maniacs on our defensive line. We're just going to come after you. And as that has been like less and less of the case, I think Ohio State has been like, slow to adapt and start doing the things that would help. Mask. That is not the right word, but complement sort of like a different look up front. And now you're right. There's an equity piece to it, right? You have to do it enough that teams have to respect it all the time. And Ohio State has certainly done it enough that teams respect it all the time. And it's, I think, more valuable than. It's like blitzing like crazy because I think at a certain point, if you're blitzing like crazy, teams will eventually get a beat on you and understand, like, it's coming from here. You throw it there, right? It's coming from there. But when you do what Ohio State that. When you do what Ohio State does with putting seven guys in the line of scrimmage and you just like never know who is rushing and who's not. And by the way, if number eight decides or not decides, but is told that he's one of the guys who's rushing, you can't block him. And you know, it's like there's just like layers to it too, that, that I think make it even more difficult to handle. It is a tremendous weapon. I don't want to pretend like Ohio State's the only team in college football that has it because you do see it a decent amount around college football, but you don't see it run as well as efficiently. Nor do you see it, I think, like, respected as much as it is with Ohio State right now.
- [49:00]
Doug Lesmerises
Do you know how many sacks Ohio State had tonight?
- [49:04]
Bill Landis
Actual sacks? Actual sacks. 2.
- [49:08]
Doug Lesmerises
1. They had the one where, like, Kaden Curry kind of flushed him and then Arvell Reese finished, finished Lindsay off. But, like, it didn't feel like one. And that's like one of those where like last week they had six. But I think last weekend this week felt very similar. It's just that Daman Williams probably held the ball longer to allow and you know, he's trying to make a play, so he's holding the ball a little bit and then he has a couple covered sacks. Also, Kaden Curry lost his mind last week and went crazy. But like, I think Lindsay's more like, okay, hey, I'm gonna get the ball out, I'm gonna take this check down. But it's all the same effect, which is your pass rush or the threat of your pass rush is not letting offenses do what they want to do. And so that has continued. And so, you know, I, I'm not necessarily expect, I am sure. I'm not. I don't think Ohio State's going to be like a 6sec a game kind of defense, but I think they're going to be, we're worried about your pass rush every single snap that matters kind of defense. And then it's almost more frustrating for the offense of like, God, you freaked us out and we were ready for it and then you brought three. So then we, we max protected and there were two guys in the route and there were eight guys covering those two guys. And Drake Lindsley had nowhere to go. And on third and nine he took a two yard check down. Like that may as well be a sack, right? Like, what's the difference between that? I mean, yeah, it's the same effect. It stops you, it stops the offense. It gets you off the field. And I just think we're gonna, we're gonna see that. I think with this Ohio State defense more than we'll see six sack games.
- [50:46]
Bill Landis
It is a constant state of discomfort for every quarterback who plays Ohio State, whether they're actually being pressured or actually being hit or just think they might be getting hit or pressured. Like no one has consistently looked comfortable. Honestly, the Mo, Daman, Williams and brief moments, Drake, Lindsay, I guess like on this first drive, Arch Manning for like a drive and a half in the second half of that game. But like everyone they've played has dropped back looking concerned about what actually might be happening to like unsure of what might actually be happening with a level of concern that I just don't think lets them operate their offense the way they need to to beat Ohio State or even make it close.
- [51:33]
Doug Lesmerises
Will John's acting when asking when Kenyatta Jackson got hurt, it was on that play where he sacked Lindsay from the blind side. That was not a sack because they actually called it an incompletion. He got the ball out just as Jackson got to him, but basically threw it in the ground. And that, that is when Jackson hurt himself. The broadcast thought it was a stinger. He didn't return after that. So it, it seems like he'll be okay, but hopefully that's the case with Kenyatta Jackson. Is there anything else on the defensive side of the ball that you really want to point out? Caleb Downs got a penalty for like kicking a guy off of him after that guy like tried to plant his face into the ground. So like that was kind of weird. But anything else.
- [52:12]
Bill Landis
I don't think C.J. hicks played and Zion Gray, he played a lot.
- [52:18]
Doug Lesmerises
Cyan Gray did play someone tiny little bit of run, I think.
- [52:22]
Bill Landis
And I, I don't, I hesitate to even say this because I don't, I don't know that that's the case. And we're not there to ask Brian Dave this question, but like someone asked me or asked us on substack, like, do you think there's any chance C.J. hicks might red shirt the rest of this year just so he can like have a full season of being a, a larger member of a pass road unit next year? And I said no. And then they got to the fifth game and he didn't play at all. So I don't know. I don't. He wasn't on the availability report nor was he considered a game time decision, so I don't know what that was, but that's probably something to look into. But I thought Zion Grady played well for a true freshman getting an extended look.
- [53:00]
Doug Lesmerises
I don't know. I'm not saying anything about anything, but there are there a ton of guys who red shirt based on lack of playing time at their current school and then are back at the current school the next year. Is that a big thing?
- [53:15]
Bill Landis
No.
- [53:16]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah.
- [53:17]
Bill Landis
No.
- [53:17]
Doug Lesmerises
I mean, it seems like usually when that happens, like you want to save it because it's like, oh, my role here is not what I want it to be. So I'll red shirt and then I'll get ready to go somewhere else. So anyway, so we're certainly worse.
- [53:27]
Bill Landis
I also don't know. He might have played. He actually might have played on special teams and I, I wasn't paying attention to that, so I wouldn't know. But I'm pretty sure, you know, I'm pretty sure he didn't play on defense. Yeah.
- [53:37]
Doug Lesmerises
But like, it was good to see. Yeah. Zion Grady had a little, had a little couple moments there, so that was good to see that. All right.
- [53:44]
Bill Landis
I thought Will Smith played well too.
- [53:47]
Doug Lesmerises
Do you want to do like a handful of like kind of random things here before we head out?
- [53:53]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [53:54]
Doug Lesmerises
Okay. Was trying a 53 yard field goal on 4th and 6, like not a troll, but I want to see like a test. Did Ryan Day want to see if Jaden Fielding could make a 53 year 53 yarder at home so that if he gets to the same decision later in the year in a big game, he has a data point?
- [54:27]
Bill Landis
Maybe. I guess that would probably be like the only justifiable answer as to why they did that. Because as I told people on substack, that was the sixth time in Ryan days. What about six years as a head coach or seven years, six plus years as a head coach that he's tried a 50 yard field goal and almost all of them have failed. And Jaden Fielding has failed twice prior to today. So maybe I was pretty surprised I didn't go for it there. Like, I understand fourth and six is not automatic, but this is not a team that is built to kick 50 yard field goals and it really hasn't ever been built to kick 50 yard field goals. So that was a bit out of character. But if it was done with a purpose of let me see what this guy can do, I guess I would understand it from that perspective.
- [55:17]
Doug Lesmerises
Did you think attempting that 53 or 53 yard field goal was the best way for Ohio State to try to beat Minnesota on Saturday night?
- [55:27]
Bill Landis
No.
- [55:29]
Doug Lesmerises
Do you think Ryan Day thought it was the best way for Ohio State to try to beat Minnesota on Saturday night? No.
- [55:38]
Bill Landis
No.
- [55:38]
Doug Lesmerises
That's like, so like I. That's all I think, Ryan.
- [55:44]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [55:45]
Doug Lesmerises
Why did you think that was the best decision to try to win the game? I didn't. Oh, then we're doing something different here, which I don't. Yeah, it's like, but Ryan, what if you try that and it comes back, it's 42 to 3. It wasn't going to come back to haunt you. Right? I mean, it's like he can't, you know, like it's. They're losing. When he tries it, they're losing. So what if Ohio State gets shut out the rest of the night and loses three? Nothing. I think he wanted to try it and I, I happened to like they gave us Jaden Fielding to talk to this week and so on Substack, I did write a little bit about this before the game. He talked a lot about like the wind in Ohio Stadium, that it swirls. There's dead spots. Jaden Fielding in, in his career is 17 of on the road and he was 16 of 22 at home. Coming in, 90 on the road, 73 coming in and he's never made a 50 yarder. They haven't made a 50 yard field goal since 2019, so. And Jaden Fielding in the spring said he was hurt last year with a hip muscle injury, but he was also he missed 230 yard two field goals in the 30s against Michigan in a game that Ohio State lost by three at home.
- [57:00]
Bill Landis
So.
- [57:04]
Doug Lesmerises
Kicking it home where he's not quite as good maybe because it's a hard place to kick, kicking long, which he's never done, he's never made a 50 yarder. I think it is not there. Not a lot of data points to gather. I think you've got to gather them and I think this might be enough of a data point that Ryan Day is like out of the 50 yard field goal business officially until further notice and that this was the last chance to even think about being in the 50 yard field goal business. And if they get into a game where it's at the end of the game and they're down by one and they either need to kick a 53 yarder or go for it on fourth and six, I think they're gonna go for it on fourth and six. And I think he tested that out tonight.
- [57:49]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I probably agree with you. The only thing that's interesting there is that they did bring in a transfer kicker this off season, Jackson Kerrville from Ball State, who made 84 of his field goals last year and was 2 of 2 from 50 plus with a long of 52. So. And it was a deal when they had like the, the whatever Parker Lewis dude from UNC is like, this guy's got kind of a strong leg. And it's like they bring in guys who have strong legs and then don't use them when it's time to use a guy who has a strong leg. So I think you're right. Unless it's like A. There's one second on the clock, we have to pick a 50 yard field goal situation like the end of the Georgia game. I don't think they'll try it again. And also the one, the one that they have made by the way, was a 55 yarder from Blake Halbill like at the half against Northwestern. I think Ohio State might have been of like 24 nothing at the time or 24 to 7. So like it wasn't exactly a high, it wasn't exactly a high leverage 50 yarder and I guess this one wasn't either. But it was still kind of a weird decision. But you're making it make sense, so I appreciate that.
- [58:53]
Doug Lesmerises
So I actually don't want you to give away the stat. We're going to do a 50 yard field goal investigation here. I think in the next week or two. I think it's time because Ohio State arguably lost a national championship by not making one and I think like just the fact that they haven't made one and other people have, I think it's we don't need to have the conversation now is something that we will investigate on Substack in the coming weeks. You already partially investigated it with our chat on Saturday night, but let's, let's leave that conversation there because it's one of those things that doesn't matter until your whole season depends on it. And so you've, you've got to take the opportunities, I think to find out information about that when you can.
- [59:35]
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- [60:53]
Doug Lesmerises
Josh Padilla played a little bit of right guard instead of Tegra, like filling in for Tegra Shabola on a drive and it wasn't Ethan Onianwa. What did you make of that?
- [61:05]
Bill Landis
We had a conversation, did we not? About maybe when we were doing our top 22 Buckeyes or some other time about is there an opportunity for an offensive lineman to have a 2024 Luke Montgomery like arc where he just kind of does his work in the background and then the end of the season you could tell the coaching staff's feeling really good about him and like maybe it's time to put him in. And I think I offered like Gabe Van Sickle as the guy who might be in the best position to do that. Maybe it's Josh Padilla. Padilla is not like, young. I guess he's in his third year, but he's not really played all that much. So I think it was that. I think it was like, Josh Padilla is probably doing really well in practice and they wanted to reward him for doing that. They like him a ton. He's just not going to overtake Carson Hinsman at center, so. So why not try him a guard. I'm obviously going to go back and watch all the snaps. I think it was just one drive and then he came in with the backups and played center in the fourth quarter. But yeah, interesting that it wasn't only on one. And then also too, when they had an emergency right tackle snap because Philip Daniel's helmet got popped off, it was Ian Moore who came into the game. That also would have been a spot potentially for Ethan Onion. Want to come in and. And he didn't. He did play at right guard with the backups, so he was available. But yeah, I don't know if that means, like, definitively the depth chart has been shaken up already. But it might mean that it's probably something to ask Ryan Day during the week maybe about what Josh Padilla has been doing to get that chance to play. But it's clear from the way they've always kind of talked about him that they really, really do think he's got a great future at Ohio State. He just. He just needs an opening to play.
- [62:38]
Doug Lesmerises
And you got to know if one of your interior starting offensive linemen gets abducted by aliens, who's up? And if. And if the answer is not slam dunk ethan onion1, then you gotta try this and you gotta see.
- [62:54]
Bill Landis
Yep.
- [62:56]
Doug Lesmerises
Because you can't find out when it's go time. You need to know before it's go time. So I thought that again, it's worth. It's one of the things. It's a Big Ten opponent. I think Minnesota is a quality football team. It is the kind of game where if you're gonna try some of this stuff out, you're kind of running out of room to do it because you're gonna have these tests and then you're gonna have, you know, Purdue and Rutgers at the end of the year. And by the way, we were just talking the other day, it's like, oh, between Penn State and Michigan. It's like ucla, Purdue And Rutgers. Nico have. I think we have to reevaluate Ohio State's November.
- [63:35]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I didn't get. I won't pretend like I got a lot of eyeballs on that game. I was at a wedding while it was happening, but I just kept looking at the score going like, are they gonna lose? Are they actually gonna lose? I was like, oh, I guess they are. So, yeah, maybe. Maybe the back end of Ohio State schedule is more interesting than we realized.
- [63:53]
Doug Lesmerises
Or maybe that was the beginning of the end.
- [63:56]
Bill Landis
Or maybe it's not.
- [63:59]
Doug Lesmerises
I don't. I don't really want to do that here. 58 minutes into this. I actually think we're gonna do a Monday sound off this week for our Substack subscribers. Instead of a Sunday sound off, we're gonna have them send in questions and comments again. If you want to sign up at Substack to be part of that, you can go find us on Substack. Bill and Doug, Ohio State. I don't think I want to do that right now, but it's. It's the. Yeah, I. I do think there's. This is the Penn State shift, right? And it was like, well, something is like, oh, Penn State's the same team every year. And it's like, well, now they're not. And it's not because they beat somebody. It's because they lost the game. They can't lose. And all of a sudden, like, all bets are off there. And I don't even know if there's lessons to be learned. Other law. Other than it's like, lines to be Dr. Thing that I think is different. Not that Ohio State hasn't lost games like that, but they, like, it's. It's funny, like, the closest that it would be for Ohio state would be 2017, after they came back and beat Penn State at home. And then they lost at Iowa the next week and, like, got their doors blown off. And I. I think they were, like, maybe exhausted by that win. They were maybe riding high a little bit off that win, but they didn't lose and then lose. And, like, that's the thing. Like, if you have a miraculous, you know, like, everybody gets a little wiggle room, but, like, the Oregon loss is already the wiggle room. And now this, like, a loss on top of that. That's like, that's next level. Like, you can't do that. So we'll talk about that, I think, on our Monday show with our Substack subscribers. This is the last thing I want to talk about. So they brought in Lincoln Keenholtz. They snuck Julian Saying and got it, but they had called timeout right before it. So then after the timeout, they brought in Lincoln Keenholz. They snuck Saying on third and one from under center. They brought in Keen Holtz and lined him up in the shotgun and then had him run. And this is another thing. You and I talked about this after the Oregon Penn State game last week, because both Oregon and Penn State converted some things out of the shotgun by letting Drew Aller and Dante Moore sort of read the hole. And we were like, I'm not so sure they shouldn't do that with Lincoln Keenholtz. And it was like, Ryan Day thought the same thing. Let's let our physical quarterback read the hole. And then Lincoln Keenholtz had two holes available to him, and it was like, nope, I'm bouncing it. And then Ryan Day threw him into the upper deck.
- [66:23]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think they caught Ryan Day saying, like, something to the effect of, why. Why did you not run that inside? Perhaps with an expletive mix in there? It was just a bad read. I. I don't even like it. It was clunky because, like, I actually had converted the sneak. But if you can, like, just analyze the idea of shotgun Lincoln Keen Holtz run and short yardage in a vacuum, I, of course, don't mind it. But he didn't read it well. He did get redemption later in the game, though. They put him, like, in a similar spot, and he did take it inside, and he got it down to the one, and then he snuck it in to score touchdowns. So I guess it's good that he kind of messed up the first one and got it right the second time.
- [67:03]
Doug Lesmerises
And. Because I thought there was two holes there and either, I think, would have been enough for the first down. He wasn't gonna break into the open field, but it was enough to put your shoulder down and get the first down. And so I still think that remains, like, in the possible list of possible things they can do on third or fourth and one. I still think that's pretty good. I mean, it's basically Wildcat. You're running Wildcat, but it's with your backup quarterback, who's bigger than Julian, saying, and I. I don't want to get bogged down in this, but saying under center has shown that he could sneak it because then he did sneak it later in the game. Right. And actually counted later. Yeah. Is there any part of that that you don't love, just from, like, the health and longevity standpoint of Julian saying or Is that just something that a starting quarterback needs to be able to do? You have to be able to get a yard under center if that's what they're asking of you. It's part of the job.
- [67:57]
Bill Landis
I think it's part of the job. I guess I don't. And, oh, I said, and Eliza doesn't do it every time they're in short yardage. I wouldn't love that, I guess. Or at least not love it. I'd probably be okay with it, like, a bigger quarterback, but not with the way that Julian say is built. But I think it's good to see him be willing and able to do it. He got a little push from Nate Roberts, I think, on the one. On the one that they converted, that actually counted. But I also like that. I don't know. Did you notice? I picked it up on tv and I think TV mentioned it. Like, the first one they called that didn't count. They showed joy. Insane, like, giving the play call in the huddle, and he's, like, smiling as he gave it. Like, he seemed kind of excited to run the quarterb. He seemed kind of to run the quarterback sneak. So I think they gotta show a willingness to call it because it helps keep honest. But I don't think. I don't think it should be a crutch for them because he's, whatever, 200 pounds and six foot. Six feet tall.
- [68:49]
Doug Lesmerises
There was definitely a negative reaction in our chat to the Keen Holtz. People were like, that's it. I'm out. And, like, I like the idea. It was a terror. It was terrible execution by him. But it's not like they've done it. It's not like he can't do that. We don't know if he can do it. Like, they really haven't tried that with him. And they tried a shotgun short yardage. Lincoln Keenholtz run before. So, like, he. I think he learned it was the second time. It was the second time they did it against Ohio.
- [69:14]
Bill Landis
They did against Ohio. Yeah.
- [69:17]
Doug Lesmerises
That was shotgun.
- [69:18]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [69:19]
Doug Lesmerises
Okay.
- [69:19]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [69:20]
Doug Lesmerises
Because then the second one by the goal line, he was taking that one inside. Whether there was a brick wall there. Like, he was not. Like. So, like, he just. Yeah, like, the only way you can bounce that is if there's nobody there or if you're Braxton Miller. Right? So, like, that's like, it is not. There's. Otherwise it is not an option. And if the hole's not there, make your own hole. So, like, that's why you're in there. Because you're bigger than the other guy. Right. So, like, I think. I think he learned that lesson. And if this is. I. I don't think they have to conclude, like, this is what we do. But I thought the variety of this, right, like the C.J. donaldson fullback handoff, the Julian sand under center sneak, the Keen Holt shotgun play, like these are adding to the short yardage package where third and one, fourth and one is still, like, not a guarantee for Ohio State. And I like that they're still trying things, and I think there are multiple things in there that can work. And I think the bigger the package here, the better off they'll be.
- [70:17]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think so, too. The more. Because they're not. They don't have. They don't have the automatic. So, like the whatever. Like the. The brotherly shove. So they have to attack it, I think, from a variety of ways, and in doing so and finding success with a couple different things, like, you just make defenses kind of try to figure out what that is and, and have to prepare for a bunch of things, and that ups your chances of success. I would just, like, generally, if CZ Donaldson is going to be the guy, let's see him again run with better pad level. But I don't know. Same conversation with the red zone. Like, I don't know that. I've hated a lot of the ideas. They just gotta execute them better, which I know is boring, but I do think it's the truth. Yeah.
- [71:05]
Doug Lesmerises
So, okay, we'll. We'll. We'll certainly get into, like, the crazy day of college football, you know, between now and. And when we speak with Ryan Day again on Tuesday. It's just a reminder. It's. All of. It's good for all of us to get reminders. You know, sometimes it, like, the main thing is what are the things that are going on that could cause you trouble down the road? But I. I just.
- [71:30]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [71:33]
Doug Lesmerises
I guess the other thing we didn't talk about, we may as well talk about for three minutes is like, again, that special teams play with the throwback across the field to Lorenzo Styles. Like, does that. Is that. Does that actually, like, back coverage off a little bit? Does that give Brandon Innis a boost that he made a nice throw? Does it plant a seed in the minds of Brett Bielema and Luke Fickle and Sharon Moore and James Franklin and Mario Cristobal? They'll have to study it on film when it's playoff time. Does it just prove to everybody who's been asking about special teams that they actually work on stuff. Why'd they do that?
- [72:08]
Bill Landis
I think the last thing he just said, like, I don't know. All of a sudden every team they play moving forward is going to spend increased amount of time on Ohio State doing something for the first time in 15 years. Like, I, I just don't, I don't think that's the way that this works. I don't think Ohio State's going to get in the habit of having Brandon Ennis throw the ball. I guess like, plants the morsel of like, do these guys have something for us? But like, like we've seen Ohio State bring an occasional special teams wrinkle to the table in the one off week throughout the season. Whether it's a fake pun or a specific type of block or something like this, but it's never, it's never a consistent mindset for them. So it was cool. But I don't know that it is like a sign of things to come, nor is it something that I think teams will spend all that much time on as they prepare for Ohio State.
- [73:04]
Doug Lesmerises
Like, all I ever say is that Ohio State just wants to catch the punt and get the offense on the field. And so then like Brandon on his. Brandon Ennis gave up a punt return and fumbled it the other week. And it's like they just want to know Brandon Ennis is throwing it. Brandon Ennis is throwing it. Like the, the risk reward of that because it's like, well, they got an extra 30 yards out of the return. It's like, well, they can get 30 yards on the first play offensively just by like throwing it out to Jeremiah Smith. So like do that.
- [73:35]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [73:36]
Doug Lesmerises
But also, what if Brandon Ennis bounced the throw and now a Minnesota guy is picking it up and running it the other way? I do not know about that. So it's like everybody's fired up. I think I would put that one in the, the way back machine. Like I, I, that's goes in the vault. That's like Rob Keys, because we went through the list who's in charge of everything. Rob Keys, the special teams coordinator, is in charge of punt return. So he can get a bonus check for that one and then Ryan Day can tell him they're running it again in 2029.
- [74:06]
Bill Landis
Yeah. Huger 72, 000 play. Yeah, I don't. Whatever. It worked. It worked. I guess. But I don't think we'll ever, I don't think we'll see it again. Yeah.
- [74:17]
Doug Lesmerises
Although I do.
- [74:18]
Bill Landis
Like these guys are saying, it'll make enough money. You Gotta. We gotta run the throwback return. Take down the race.
- [74:26]
Doug Lesmerises
Your million dollar coordinator higher. How about that? The million dollar play. Although I like that. Our conclusion is, hey, remember how Ohio State, like, wasn't doing great on special teams? They had a great special teams play. And we're like, yeah, we liked it better when they were bad at it because this is not worth it. Just be average.
- [74:46]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I'm just. Just be average. It's fine. Yeah, just be average.
- [74:51]
Doug Lesmerises
All right. So you were at a wedding today?
- [74:55]
Bill Landis
I was at a wedding today, yeah. My cousin got married. Yeah, it was a nice time. It was hot. These fall weddings are hot, man. I don't know what the deal was, but that's. I thought, sweating like crazy.
- [75:06]
Doug Lesmerises
Little dancing or.
- [75:06]
Bill Landis
No, no, I kind of had. I kind of had to leave before the dancing started. So I got to go to the ceremony and the cocktail hour, and I had. And I had some dinner and I left. I was kind of bummed because my over here with my wife and my son and my son was apparently cutting up a rug when I wasn't there to see it happen, so.
- [75:21]
Doug Lesmerises
Oh, nice.
- [75:22]
Bill Landis
Okay. Sorry. Had to have to watch the Minnesota game and do a podcast for the people.
- [75:26]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah, it's okay. Yeah, for the people. I am in. I was at another William and Mary football game today. William Mary won today, defeated North Carolina A T. And I got another round of sunburn because it is October and the sun is like, we are. We are. It's like the middle of July. I didn't. I didn't bring sun. I didn't bring sunscreen in October to a football game. And so the game ended, and my daughter was like, oh, my God, what happened to you? And I was like, I just stared at the sun for 90 minutes.
- [75:58]
Bill Landis
I don't know what to tell you.
- [76:00]
Doug Lesmerises
So who knew? Who knew? All right, we will be. We'll have some stuff up written on substack at some point. We put up some quick thoughts after the game. We'll have the Sunday sound off on Monday. This week on sub stack Monday Sound off, we have a lot of stuff. You have a film breakdown early in the week for the YouTube and podcast folks. Bill, we have our. Our playoff discussion, our playoff brackets on Tuesday night. I'll have some rants for you. Of course, Bill Belichick got his doors blown off by Dabo Sweeney on Saturday to no surprise. And then we'll have a bunch of coverage both here on YouTube and on our podcast feeds and also @substack. Billanddugosu.substack.com thanks to you crazy people who watched a whole football game and then said, said, let's go watch two guys talk about that football game. We're so excited to do it with you. This continues to be a fascinating team to observe, to watch the continued progress of this team. And Bill, I think the thing that it. That really, I think that we feel. I think this fan base feels is two things. It is the opportunity that is. Is present for Ohio State right now to do something that's never been done in program history, which is to repeat at national champions. And it is the opportunity to do that with new guys. And that, though, that's a little. It's a rare combo to some degree. And it's like, man, and. And again, I. I always tell the stories. Like, the first thing I learned on the Ohio State beat, it's like, AJ Hawk is graduating. Oh, my God, what are they going to do? And it's like, who's this James Laurinaitis guy? And that's just how Ohio State works. And it's like, oh, my God, Jack Sawyer just made the greatest play in Ohio State defensive history. How could you possibly get a homegrown Ohio guy who's that kind of defensive get. Oh, it's Arvel Reese. He's fine. They're here. Like, it's just. There's always another guy, and that's what makes it fun. So, like, we're not like. It. It is. It is appreciating the chance to do something over again while there is not a single part of this that is like. Like, been there, done that, or blase or boring or. We've already seen this because it's so many different people involved, Bill. And like, even, like, Jeremiah Smith, we know how good he is. But, like, watch Carnell Tate do this on a night like this. It makes it fun, man.
- [78:21]
Bill Landis
It does make it fun. It's. It's. It's quite a different energy with this team at the moment, because even last year's team, like, prior to the championship run, which was awesome, like, there was a lot of, like, tension during the season. And it wasn't just, like, the natty or bus stuff. It was like, you've been watching these guys play football for a very long time, and I think, like, patience, patience, waiting for guys to, like, break through does. Does tend to wear thin. And the combination of, like, the high level of play with this team combined with you getting to experience a lot of this stuff for the first time, watching this particular set of players has made this season pretty fun thus far.
- [78:58]
Doug Lesmerises
It has. So we're very grateful that you guys are letting us ride along with you on this Ohio State adventure again. We'll see you on YouTube, we'll see on the podcast feed. We'll see you on Stub Stack for now. Ohio State winners over Minnesota 42 to 3. He's Bill Landis, I'm Doug Lamaris, and that was the Bill and Doug Show.
- [79:26]
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- [79:29]
Bill Landis
Peanut butter and jelly, macaroni and cheese.
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- [79:42]
Doug Lesmerises
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- [79:45]
Bill Landis
Looking to reward full time fans who.
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Doug Lesmerises
For a well deserved ice cold reward.
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