Ohio State recruiting and strategy on the offensive line, plus Whatcha Watching, Eating andThinking

Summary

Episode Overview

Podcast: The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Hosts: Doug Lesmerises & Bill Landis (Blue Wire)
Episode Date: November 20, 2025
Main Theme:
A deep-dive into Ohio State’s offensive line recruiting strategy, focusing on the in-state vs. national approach, NIL-era financial calculus, and specific breakdowns of the 2026 OL class. The episode closes with a lighthearted ‘Whatcha Watching, Eating, and Thinking’ segment, providing personal and pop-culture talk.

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1. The Big Picture: Offensive Line Recruiting Strategy

• Purpose:
  Analyze Ohio State’s philosophy in building a championship-caliber offensive line: can it be done using mostly or primarily in-state recruits?
• Context:
  • The Buckeyes are defending national champions and renowned for their recruiting prowess.
  • The hosts are running a themed “Offensive Line Week” on their Substack, examining history and current trends.
  • Changes in NIL (“name, image, likeness”) and scholarship limits are altering the recruiting landscape.

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2. Key Discussion Points & Insights

A. Ohio State’s In-State Recruiting Approach

• Historical Perspective:

  • Traditionally, OSU has built offensive lines from Ohio talent (dating to Tressel, Cooper, and even Woody Hayes years).
  • Recent years saw more national/transfers, but the current staff is intentionally pivoting back in-state.

• Core Question:
  “Can Ohio State build the offensive line it needs to succeed at a national championship level primarily through in-state players?” (02:07)

• Recruiting Realities:

  • NIL has driven up the price for elite national O-line prospects, making it less feasible to “outbid” aggressive schools like Texas Tech, Miami, or Oregon.
  • Ohio State's administrative and fan attitudes support a balanced, sustainable approach rather than overspending for a “five-star” from far away.

• Doug’s Framing:
  “If Texas Tech decides they want a guy at all costs, it’s going to be difficult to pay more than Texas Tech right now.” (17:03)

• Bill’s Take:
  Ohio State is pragmatic:
  “Nobody has infinite money... Ohio State is probably a little more…pragmatic with how it spends, just trying to really take value into account.” (18:40)

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B. Priority Positions: Where In-State Works and Where It Doesn’t

• Pass game positions:

  • Quarterback/Receiver/Edge Rusher:

    • Highly prioritized; in-state Ohio rarely supplies what OSU needs.
    • Explained by weather (fewer reps outdoors), different development, and national patterns.
    • “Not the norm in Ohio…and it’s not really the norm in this part of the country.” (10:50)

  • Cornerback:

    • Somewhat more reliable to find in-state, but still inconsistent.
    • “Probably more than receiver and quarterback, but still not regularly.” (13:07)

• Offensive Line:

  • Most realistic spot for homegrown recruiting success.
  • “The only one of those positions where Ohio State probably feels like we can get almost all we need in-state is offensive tackle, offensive line, and that’s why we’re talking about it.” (16:15)
  • Bill agrees: linebacker, maybe tight end, are the only others with a similar in-state pool. (16:44)

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C. NIL and Roster Construction Calculus

• Scholarship Expansion:

  • Now effectively have more than 85 spots; up to 100-105 scholarships.
  • “The move from 85 to 105 [scholarships] makes this strategy significantly more possible, because you can throw numbers at the issue.” (43:58)

• Investment Logic:

  • Teams are balancing one super-elite, expensive out-of-state recruit vs. four regional, more affordable prospects.
  • “If you spread that out, and [those] are good players…if you go two for four, well, that’s a better return on your investment than maybe you got by giving it all to one guy. If that guy doesn’t hit, it’s a huge blow…” (35:06)
  • Applies especially at a developmental position like the offensive line.

• Recruiting Misses:

  • Buckeyes targeted Felix Ojo, Jackson Cantwell, Emmanuel Ayanacho—lost all to “NIL-rich” schools.
  • “Not new to see Ohio State miss on…five-star tackles.” (07:08)

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D. Anatomy of the 2026 Recruiting Class

Main Commits:
Local standouts + one from Arizona. Analyses based on 247 Composite Ratings.

• Sam Greer (OH, Archbishop Hoban) — #51 overall, #6 OT

  • Offered as a freshman; “Justin Fry fell in love.”
  • Committed before major national prospects made their decisions.
  • “Maybe, if they didn’t know they had somebody they liked as much as Greer, maybe that would have affected their ultimate pursuits of Cantwell and Ojo…but they knew what they had in-state.” (22:16)
  • Elite combination of size, athleticism, and multi-sport talent.
    • “6’7, 315...super athletic, could play Division I basketball.” (24:05)
    • “I don’t think he’d have to play early next year, but I think he could if they needed him to.”

• Maxwell Riley (OH, Avon Lake) — #171 overall, #7 OT

  • First OL offered in this class; chose OSU over Clemson.
  • Versatile: “Can play all five positions.” (26:20)
  • OSU fighting off Clemson echoes Jackson Carman’s old recruiting battle.

• Tucker Smith (AZ) — #571 overall, #45 IOL

  • Only out-of-state guy; connected to OL coach Tyler Bowen.
  • Not the highest-ranked offer sheet but “nasty” edge beloved by OL coaches.
    • “Tyler Bowen just watched and... this is my guy.” (45:13)

• Landry Breed (OH, Mentor) — #851 overall, #77 OT

  • Flipped from NC State; another Bowen connection.
  • More developmental, but held real Power 4 offers.

• Mason Wilhelm (OH, St. Edward; son of Matt Wilhelm) — #994 overall, #80 IOL

  • Flipped from UNC after productive senior season; got his offer as a “challenge met” reward.
  • Hosts praise OSU’s philosophy: choosing developmental, late-bloomers who fit the program rather than desperate late flips.
    • “If it’s a developmental project, but you put something out, do this, the person does it, you reward them, they immediately respond… seems like a good part of the strategy.” (50:20)

On Class Composition & Strategy

• Volume Approach:

  • Five-man class: Preferable to “three sure things,” especially with increased scholarship slack.
  • Bill: “If you’re going to take five, you have to probably have at least two... developmental kind of swings.” (32:41)
  • Doug: Use open scholarships for more dice rolls, maximize returns.

• Plan vs. Panic:

  • Previous years, fallback flips felt desperate; now, late additions are “planful” developments, not last-minute scrambles.
  • Doug: “Was it your plan or not? ... I am more accepting of where Ohio State is now with this kind of recruiting than I ever have been before...” (53:51)

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E. The “Developmental” Philosophy

• Identifying High-Upside In-State Projects:

  • More affordable, more motivated, more likely to be invested.
  • Shifting focus to evaluating senior film and rewarding tangible progress (Wilhelm, Breed, Jake Cook examples).

• Trusting Coaches’ “My Guy” Instincts:

  • Tyler Bowen’s advocacy for Tucker Smith is seen as a positive, allowing for OL position coach autonomy.

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F. Notable Quotes & Moments

On the NIL World

“When the five-star tackle comes to Ohio State, it’s usually because he’s from Ohio.”—Bill (09:21)

OSU OL Philosophy

“This is the position to do it based on the available talent pool in the state and how great players are created at the offensive line position.”—Doug (39:36)

The Value of Development

“If you’re a three-star prospect on your way to being a four- or five-star prospect, then you probably shouldn’t be at Ohio State. So taking the time to watch the senior film... is probably the right stance for Ohio State to take even if it causes the class to come together a little late.”—Bill (50:20)

On Late Additions

“I am more accepting of where Ohio State is now with this kind of player and recruiting than I ever have been before... I buy this because I think it’s different.” —Doug (54:25)

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G. Brief Notes on 2027 and Other Prospects

• OSU already has three OL commits in the 2027 class, building continuity.
• Brief mentions: flips (ex. Kevin Brown, Darius Gray), mutual partings (Aaron Thomas), and Tyler Bowen’s Virginia connections.

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3. ‘Whatcha Watching, Eating & Thinking’ Highlights

Whatcha Watching

• Bill: Tried Philly mob docuseries on Netflix—found it boring. Only interesting if you like law enforcement POV over mobster stories. Switched to a promising (partly French-language) Montreal Expos doc.
  Quote: “I don't want to watch a documentary about the Mafia from the perspective of the police... I want to watch it from the perspective of the guys who were doing it.” (63:58)

Whatcha Eating

• Bill: Randomly made stuffing for a dinner—wonders why Thanksgiving sides aren't normalized year-round.
  Quote: “I want stuffing with dinner. What do we think about having Thanksgiving sides not on Thanksgiving?” (70:34)

• Extended riff with Doug on the hidden joys of year-round stuffing, croutons, and Biscoff cookies as gateways to unwitting Britishness.

Whatcha Thinking

• Bill: Amazed by civil engineering/Columbus I-70/71 project.
  Quote: “...to see them reroute the entire highway on the fly...in an area that is far too small for what this city has become. It’s a heck of a thing.” (78:33)

• Doug: Prefers a buffer between celebrities and audiences; dislikes when actors reveal too much everyday real life in podcasts, ruining on-screen “mystique.”
  Quote: “Now every time I watch him on screen, I think about, he’s the guy who poops and then showers, and I don’t want to know that.” (84:46)

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4. Timestamps for Key Segments

| Topic | Timestamp | |-----------------------------------------------------|:----------:| | Main theme intro & strategy scope | 00:32–03:06| | NIL/offensive tackle recruiting difficulties | 07:08–09:21| | Positional priorities & geographic recruiting | 10:25–16:44| | Scholarship/roster construction in NIL era | 35:06–36:23| | Detailed 2026 OL class breakdown | 22:16–47:40| | Late additions & developmental approach | 47:40–53:51| | Broader program/planful pivot insight | 53:51–55:37| | ‘Whatcha Watching, Eating & Thinking’ | 62:53–86:20|

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5. Overall Takeaways

• Ohio State OL recruiting is evolving, responding to NIL realities by focusing heavily on in-state talent, emphasizing development, and being strategic rather than reactionary.
• The 2026 class is a microcosm of that strategy—two clear future starters and three developmental picks, most from Ohio.
• The hosts strongly advocate the current approach as sustainable and well-matched to the state’s talent pool, even if it’s less shiny than chasing every five-star nationally.

Memorable quote:

“We sort of see the vision for why Ohio State wants to operate this way and we think it can work… But time will tell. But that’s what will happen. We have to see what these investments turn out to be.” —Bill (40:05)

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For Listeners:

Even if you skipped the episode, this summary gives you a thorough roadmap of OSU’s offensive line recruiting philosophy, the current class, and some lighthearted podcast signature content, complete with timestamps and direct quotes.

Bill and Doug’s Substack: billanddoug.osu.substack.com
Next Up: Michigan week, signing day, and more in-depth recruiting analysis.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show. Doug Lamres and Bill Landis here we are doing an offensive line recruiting strategy show here. Bill Landis, are you fired up?

[B]

I'm always fired up to talk online, you know that. And I appreciate you breaking this out just for me. Yeah.

[A]

So I wanted to do a, a punter series this week on our on our Bill and Doug substack, although you also would have been, frankly.

[B]

Yeah, that's. Those are my, those are my two loves. Ye.

[A]

Your two passions. So what we are doing this week on on the Bill and Doug substack, which we would invite you guys to check out if you want to. It's Bill and Doug. Osu.substack.com we're calling it Offensive Line Week. So I wrote an introductory story, Bill and I wrote an introductory story on Wednesday that sort of explained the history of Ohio State recruiting. And what we're particularly interested in is in state recruiting of offensive linemen for the Ohio State Buckeyes. What is the strategy of that? What is the history of that? What is the success rate of that? And so on Wednesday, sort of an introductory story, you know, talking about the last 25 years, basically since Jim Trestle took over, how often, although we went back to I went back to some Woody stuff, how often are there starters on the offensive line from Ohio? How often are they national? How often are they bordering states looking at their recruiting classes? Basically the idea, Bill, that we're kind of getting into here and we're going to get into specifically the Ohio commits, all the offensive line commits, there's one from Arizona, but the offensive line commits in this Ohio State recruiting class. And the question I think overall we're trying to ask is can Ohio State build the offensive line it needs to succeed at a national championship level? Almost entirely or at least certain primary, certainly primarily through in state players. Is that our overarching discussion?

[B]

Yeah, I think so. And it's just sort of, it's just magnified. Right in the nil rev share world. Right. With with the the price associated with offensive line recruiting, I think specifically like offensive tackle recruiting. And I don't think either one of us is saying that Ohio State should not like enter into that world and go after those players. But I think we understand that it's going to be increasingly difficult, I think to to kind of go national for like the five star offensive lineman just based off what they're being paid. And because of that, Ohio State has to make sure it's like doing its business in its own backyard. And I think for a stretch we would say that that hasn't happened or it hasn't happened well enough or whatever wasn't evaluated the right way. There's a bunch of different ways you can couch it, but. But yes, I do, I think. And again, like this is, we cover Ohio State, we talk about Ohio State. I don't think it's specific to Ohio State. I think you can kind of apply this across the board to every program. Can you, can you build your offensive line like homegrown sort of, sort of question? I think question like every program's asking itself. But we believe that Ohio State, obviously, given its history, is one of the few programs that I think is uniquely positioned to answer that question with a yes.

[A]

So we wrote that introductory story on Wednesday. Thursday we're going to have a story a little bit more about the players. For instance, Mason Wilhelm, who was a late addition to this class, son of former Buckeye Matt Wilhelm. I talked to him, I talked to the Chase Ferris, who is a former Ohio State offensive lineman from Ohio who helps train Mason Wilhelm. And just sort of talking about like looking at the guys in this class, how their offers came about, how, how they wound up being Buckeyes. And then you are going to write for Friday a really interesting story about a person who is kind of important to Ohio State football at the moment that's not employed but by Ohio State that I'm not sure a lot of people know a lot about.

[B]

Yeah, he might as well be employed by Ohio State, honestly. His name is Dale Roddick. He's an offensive line trainer based in Northeast Ohio who works with three of the no. 4, four of the all the in state guys in the 2026 class and or three of the four 2026 and and both of the guys who are currently committed in 27 and just works with like basically every offensive liner in the state. So he, he'd be the guy who knows kind of who's coming through the pipeline and who might be Ohio State caliber. So yeah, I wanted to see him on, on Wednesday. It was cool.

[A]

So three written pieces on the sub stack for offensive line week and then we did a full breakdown of the 2026 recruiting class. Strategy flips, three star strategy, five star strategy. We went through every position group except offensive line which we saved for this show. But we did that on a Wednesday two hour long show for Substack subscribers. So we get on here. We want this content to stand on its own here on YouTube and here on our podcast feeds. We think we provide good content here. And we are grateful for every single subscriber, every single person who stops by for one listen, every person who drops a review, every person who interacts in the comments. Thank you so much for being here. But we just want to let you guys know that there is this next level of Bill and Doug Ohio State content if you want to partake in it. And there are the two shows are just for Substack subscribers. A big Wednesday show that is about two hours and then the Sunday Sound off where we take questions and comments from subscribers about the Saturday game. That one usually goes about two hours. That's over on Substack. And then we're writing a bunch of stuff. So that's the, that's the plug. Like subscribe, tell a friend about the Bill and Doug show, what we're doing here on YouTube and on podcasts and of course, go check out our [e-mail] back.com I think sometimes it's nice to wear something for Thanksgiving. I don't know if it would get to you by Thanksgiving at this point, but you could wear a rollback quarter zip or hoodie with a little Ohio State logo on it. You could wear it to Thanksgiving dinner. It's classy. It's, it's like a little upscale. Still represent your team. If you can't get it for Thanksgiving, make sure you get it for the holiday season in December. Get that Christmas gift. Roback.com 20 off your first order bad 20 use that code bad20 to get 20% off your first order. They didn't get Felix Ojo. They didn't get Jackson Cantwell. That was part of the story of offensive line recruiting for Ohio State early. Felix Ojo is a Texas kid who committed to Texas Tech in July. Jackson Cantwell is a Missouri kid who committed to Miami in May. I believe it was and this is one of those situations, Bill and even reflecting on like I think when that happens, when, when those two things happened, that's not a new story for Ohio State football because that has they've been in whether it's David Sanders who went to Tennessee in the last class. It was the, the Rice kid from four cycles ago that they missed out on. It seemed like a big deal and who went to North Carolina and then like did not become necessarily a big gigantic star. Zach Rice and it and it turned out okay. Like the story of Ohio State trying for five star national offensive tackles and not getting them has kind of been a thing the last several years, has.

[B]

It not it, it has certainly. I would also throw Emmanuel Ayanacho, I think that's how you say it, into that category too. From, from, from this cycle. Yeah, they've just, it's been difficult to land, land that kind of player and obviously those are that I think five star tackle and five star quarterback and perhaps five star tackle even more than five star quarterback because quarterbacks just tend to commit like pretty early might be the most competitive recruitment. You can, you can kind of throw yourself into both with the number of teams that want to get involved and then also the, the now the money that it costs to land players like that. So it had been elusive for Ohio State prior to the nil world. It remains elusive in the nil world. I, I think, I think now that the nil nil thing like exists maybe it gives Ohio State a better chance of landing one of those guys eventually. But, but yeah it still, it still hasn't happened. When the five star tackle comes to Ohio State it's usually because he's from Ohio. Yep. And they're, they're, they're rare exceptions to that. And I get that it's that it's frustrating. Like on one hand I understand it. On the other hand I get why it's frustrating and I think there's like a spin off of that too. It's like when you don't get that guy. So like, like what do you pivot to? And I think like Ohio State's answer to that has always been lacking. I do think they're kind of better situated now. But yes. Not, not new to see Ohio State miss on whatever. There's three. I think there's only three five star tackles in this class and they kind of went after all three of them and didn't get them. Yeah.

[A]

So Ionocho was he, he was committed to Maryland and then flipped to Oregon. Is that right? He's one of the Maryland, Maryland had two five stars. I think he is.

[B]

Yes. I believe that.

[A]

So one of these is I do think in evaluate evaluating recruiting and we went into this in, in pretty good detail on the Wednesday show on Substack. Right. The idea if you think of some, the top of your class as like first round picks and I think the thing here in roster building and I do think, I love, I think roster building is so interesting and I think NFL teams clearly think of this the smartest offensive, the smartest teams in the NFL. Think about this. It's why you don't as often see running backs go high in the first round. Why you don't see linebackers go as high in the first round. Why? You don't see interior offensive linemen go as high in the first round. No matter how good you are, the premium separating positions, it feels like, are quarterback, receiver, edge rusher to go get the quarterback, an offensive tackle to prevent the edge rusher from going to get the cornerback. And then at times, if you want to throw corner in there, it's revolving around the passing game. Right. Because that's the, that's where the, where the, where the game of football has gone. It doesn't mean, you know, we get it, you got to run the ball. But I think that applies in a lot of ways. You see the draft, you see that. I think that applies here. And so the question then, Bill, is, I think we can run through this. I'm going to ask you two, two questions about all those position groups. Okay. First is, do you think Ohio State prioritizes quarterback?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Do you think Ohio State can find the quarterbacks that they want typically more often than not in the state of Ohio?

[B]

No.

[A]

Okay. And that has been borne out, like, I don't even know, like. So Tavian St. Clair, who is a true freshman right now for Ohio State, is the exception to that rule. They are certainly always on alert for it, but it's just not the norm, right?

[B]

No, it's not. It's not the norm in Ohio, and it's not really nor the norm in sort of like this part of the country, to be like, to be honest, Tavian Sinclair. And maybe Tavian Sinclair is like the first guy in a shift to, to that being the case. I don't, I don't know. But historically that has not been the case. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Receiver. Does Ohio State prioritize it?

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Can they get the receivers they typically need in the state of Ohio?

[B]

Not usually, no. Yeah.

[A]

And again, I think, I mean, I was actually having. You end up having a lot of spring football discussions when you talk about development of high school players from different parts of the country. And when you and I did our series, the 25 Year Winter, which you can find on your YouTube feed on our old show Kings of the north. And we were comparing the Big Ten on the SEC and comparing the north and the South. Spring football and having more practices and having more development outside of the fall was a big part of this. But I think that probably can particularly apply to the passing game. And then you get into like 7 on 7 stuff with quarterbacks and receivers chucking it around in warm weather stuff all summer. I think it is. There is a particular reason maybe why quarterbacks and receivers from warm weather states develop at a faster rate in high school than they do at places where it's cold.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean the, the sort of, the structure of spring football should have exist in these states, certainly House. But then even just the ability to go outside and throw the ball around, even if you're not, even if your state doesn't have spring football. Right. I guess you could do that in Ohio. Wouldn't be very fun for, for a few months out of the year. Like you can go indoors and work with trainers like I. But there's just a lot of like 7 on 7 opportunities that are year round in a lot of these warm weather states that, that kids in the Midwest unfortunately don't get. Yeah.

[A]

All right, cornerback. And we'll throw that in here now because I think it's a similar discussion to receiver. Do you think, do you think Ohio State prioritizes cornerback? Do they prioritize it as much as they prioritize quarterback and receiver?

[B]

Probably not. Not quite to the same degree.

[A]

Not quite. Can they. But still.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Can they typically get what they need at that position in the state of Ohio?

[B]

Probably more than receiver and quarterback, but still not regularly.

[A]

And again, kind of a little anomaly here. As we covered on our Wednesday recruiting show, there were like three very highly ranked corners from the state of Ohio in this class that they didn't get any of them. One went to USC, one went to Texas A&M and one went to North Carolina when he flipped away from Ohio State. So I think you, in this class, if someone wanted to say, yeah, you can, and they didn't get them, that's, that's a reasonable answer to that. I think more often than not, Ohio State probably couldn't say, you know what, like, we're gonna get most of the corners that we need in state. That's. They couldn't rely on that year to year as a strategy. Probably.

[B]

Probably not. Although you look at the roster, four of their corners are from Ohio. Lorenzo Styles, Jermaine Matthews, Aaron Scott, Bryce west are all from Ohio. But and like just suppose that to two receiver, only two of the receivers are from Ohio and one of them is there because they moved to Marian Whitten from tight end to receiver. So it's the Mario Winton and Bach Pen Miller from Ohio in the receiver room. So. And I think, you know, you think about like Marshawn Lattimore, Gary On Conley, Denzel Ward. Denzel Ward, like they, they Have I, I do, I do think it's slightly more reliable.

[A]

Foreign more reliable. I think definitively more reliable than receiver. You're making a good point there. But so great. So great. Go do that. But probably not as much as the, the position that I'm leading up to here. Edge rusher. Do you think. How much do you think Ohio State prioritizes that? Getting after the quarterback?

[B]

Yeah. Pretty high. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Can they get what they need in Ohio? Typically?

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I think that's probably true. Corner is probably the one they can do the best in so far. And then offensive line, offensive tackle. How much do you think they prioritize it?

[B]

Yeah. Hi. Very high.

[A]

Yeah. And can they get what they need in Ohio? Typically?

[B]

Yes. I think for the most part, yeah.

[A]

Boy, that was long winded. So that's my bad. I think this is the important part of what we're doing, trying to dissect here is that in a world where money and allocating your, your recruiting budget is now the primary part of assembling your high school roster from recruiting, you must prioritize. You can't just get anything you want and everyone you want. Back in the Urban Meyer era, you could. It was almost limitless. The way that Nick Saban and Urban Meyer built national championship teams was that they thought to themselves, why get 12 first round picks? I have an unlimited amount. There's nothing holding me back other than our ability to go out and persuade young men to come play for my school, whether it's in state or out of state. And again, the way that you persuaded perhaps at times involve some financial transactions, but you didn't have a cap. You never. You have a spreadsheet. Man, I hope they weren't. Were they making spreadsheets for the feds to come find back in the day?

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

Can you make this. Can you make a brown paper bag spreadsheet? I don't know that that's how that worked. Now they're spreadsheets. And so in, in this era, Bill, when you talk about the positions that are prioritized to win at the highest level, the only one of those positions where Ohio State probably feels like we can get almost all of what we need in state is offensive tackle, offensive line, and that's why we're talking about it.

[B]

Yeah, I think that's. That's right. Because I don't know, I'm just trying to like run through other positions. I really don't think it's true of any other position. Maybe linebacker.

[A]

Maybe linebacker.

[B]

Yeah. That might be, that might be in like maybe tight linebacker. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Maybe tight end.

[B]

The guys that like to run through brick walls and eat meals for breakfast. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And so this idea. So I will say the thing for me, and I think like, for instance, Felix Ojo, you know, having conversations with some people about that idea, I think certainly Ohio State would have been thrilled to get Felix Ojo as a five star offensive line commit. But I think we all realize now at the moment the way things stand. And I, and I absolutely understand if Ohio State fans are frustrated by this. If Texas Tech decides that they won a guy at all costs, it is going to be difficult to pay more than Texas Tech right now. And the idea is, and I think Miami might be in a similar boat. So when we're talking about. And then I, Announcho wound up flipping to Oregon, which might be in a similar boat. So when you talk about the three offensive tackles in this 2026 class that were the highest rated that Ohio State was, was interested in and at least checked in on, those three guys wound up at three programs that have very aggressive nil situations and so does Ohio State. But if you're trying to not blow out your budget, like, what do you think of the idea of should Ohio State have done whatever it took financially, whatever their bid is, our bids $1 more and that will continue on that for infinity. Should they have done whatever it took to get one of those guys? Or do you say that is not where we're not going higher than that. We're gonna, we have this money allocated for this and this for this. Or do you think no, man, they should have done it?

[B]

Well, I think they tried. But the thing is like, I'm just looking at these classes and like nobody, nobody has infinite money. And I think Ohio State is probably a little more sort of like whatever pragmatic with, with how it spends. Just, just trying to really take value into account. But I also think you need to consider that Ohio State is kind of like building different classes because Miami has two top 100 players in this class. Texas Tech has three. I say it has six. And that's low for Ohio State. Right. So Jackson Cantwell and Felix Ojo are taking what percentage of those of their respective schools, high school cap, whatever it is, it's a number that Ohio State's not probably comfortable with because it has to build a national championship roster. And, and those two teams, while they have like aspirations of winning national titles certainly and will supplement with the transfer portal, we all know that aren't really playing the same game when it comes to high school recruiting. So should Ohio State find ways to be more aggressive and win one of these eventually? Yeah, I would say yes, I would agree with that. I don't think there's like throwing their hands up and I think for a player like Felix Ojo, they're probably going to whatever their max is. But sometimes that, that's not going to be enough to beat a team that is just gonna throw silly, silly numbers at kids like that because they're not, they're not loading up with kind of top end high school talent the same way Ohio State is. Right.

[A]

And then you look at, for instance, I, I don't know what Texas Tech is bringing in at the receiver position in this class. I don't know what Miami is bringing in at the receiver position in this class. I don't know what Oregon is bringing in at the receiver position in this class. But Ohio State is typically the best receiver recruiting school in the country and these days that means you have to pay for that. So would you. Now High State also has five receivers in this class. It's like, well, could you pull back and maybe get three receivers and use some of that extra to go further in your pursuit of an offensive tackle? Certainly. But again, again, they got spreadsheets now, man. And so they believe in not a.

[B]

Big time quarterback either. We talked about that on the substance show. Like, they're like, they whatever. Luke Fahey costs something he didn't probably cost what Tavian Sinclair costs. Right. So I think with this particular cycle you can kind of look at the way the class came together and think to yourself, like, well, why wasn't there like a little bit more to go after a five star offensive tackle?

[A]

I think that, I think that is fair. I don't think we're absolving Ohio State of ever getting one again. Right? Like that. It's like, oh, well, it's, it can never happen again and it's fine. I don't think that's what we're saying here. And actually maybe this would have been the year, maybe this would have been the year to be like, well, most of the time they don't. But like every four or five years they'll, they'll go, go to the wall for the right national five star tackle and this very well may have been the year. But it didn't happen.

[B]

It didn't. But I also, the other thing to consider is, is Sam Greer is not a five star, but he's like a top 50 player. And a top 10 tackle. Right. So it's like if you have.

[A]

If.

[B]

You have that in your state already and they had Carter low last year.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So it's like maybe you just like feel like you don't have to, because, like, you don't. We got, we got. Whatever. What do they say? We got that at home or whatever. Yeah. Like, they don't. They don't need to go out. They don't need to go out and spend for Felix Ojo. Like, if they think that Sam Greer is just as good. Which, which I think, I think, I think they do.

[A]

Which I think, I think. Absolutely. I think you might be right. Which is kind of what the point that we're going back to, because that can happen at this position in the state of Ohio more regularly than it may happen at edge. Rusher, receiver, quarterback, and maybe even corner back. Right. So that idea, let's start running through these guys a little bit. And we will start with Sam Greer, who was offered all the way back in April of 2023 and committed to Ohio State in March of this year at an Ohio State spring practice. Had a bunch of SEC offers. And to your point, six, Sam Greer committed before Jackson, Cantwell and Felix Ojo made their decision. So it wasn't a situation of Ohio State was like, oh, man, we didn't get these guys. We gotta make. They love Sam Greer. They offered Sam Greer, like, so April of 2023 is the end of his freshman season. Right. We are in the year of our Lord 2025, and he is a senior in high school. So fall of 2024, he was a junior. Fall of 2023, he was a sophomore. Spring of 2023, he had been a freshman football player in high school and had an Ohio State offer. Justin Fry fell in love. He did the same thing with Maxwell Riley, who we'll talk about. So that idea that he's been offered for two years, he commits in March, they knew they had him. And that maybe, and maybe to your point, maybe if they didn't know they had somebody they liked as much as Greer, maybe that would have affected their ultimate pursuits of Cantwell and, and Ojo and Ionocho. But they knew what they had in state. And I think it took the pressure off a little bit. Maybe because Sam Greer is elite.

[B]

He is elite. Yeah. I, I don't. And I don't know. I just think sometimes, for whatever reason, maybe like kids in Ohio and specifically an offensive lineman just aren't. Aren't viewed that way. Even if the Rankings like tell you that they should be viewed that way. And, and I guess it's just a product of the, the assumption that the recruitment should be easy for Ohio State. So, so this somehow this player is like not exactly the same caliber of the kid who plays the same position with a similar ranking who's from Texas or Georgia. But Sam Greer is that guy. I think like 6, 7, 3, 15. Doesn't look 315. Like he carries it incredibly well. Super athletic, like could play Division 1 basketball. I think like he's that good of a basketball player. So he's got great feet. Like obviously you're 678, you have good length and, and like he's got in my opinion like pretty close to like a college ready body already. Just I was standing next to him the other day at the UCLA game. He's a gigantic kid. But if you like watch them play like it's, it just kind of like screams big time tackle. Like I, I don't think he'd be in a position where he'd have to play early next year, but I think he could if they needed him to. Like I think he's that caliber of offensive tackle.

[A]

So that's, so that's a really big deal. And one of the things is you talk to Dale Roddick who trained Sam Greer and most of these guys and kind of got breakdowns on all of them. We'll, we'll save that for a sub stack. I think we'll, the folks can go and find those specific breakdowns and we'll move to Maxwell Riley. So again by the 247 composite rating, Sam Greer number 51 player number 6 offensive tackle, Max Riley, number 171 player number 7 offensive tackle. Oh, I just wanted to say by the way, a bunch of these guys are still playing Archbishop Hoban where Sam Greer plays. They are the number one seed in Division 2 Region 5. They play Walsh Jesuit on Friday. Still live in the playoffs. So just giving it, giving a heads up there. Max Riley, number 171 player number 7 offensive tackle also offered in March of 2023 by Justin Fry was actually offered before. Sam Greer was the first lineman offered by Fry in the class of 2026. He also committed this March, two weeks before Greer he was down to Ohio State and Clemson. I think maybe people were a little worried that that Clemson was going to be a real player there. It's from Avon Lake. His season is over and he was actually, you got to see him work out a little bit. When you went up to See Dale Roddick.

[B]

Yeah, he was working out. It was Max and actually Ben Condon, who's also from Ohio, but he's going to Miami. Miami, Florida. So they're working out together. It was like, kind of interesting to sort of see them work outside by side, just to kind of like get a gauge of like, where each guy's at, like you said. I'll save, I guess, most of that insight for the, for the substack story that I'm writing. But I will say, like, Max Riley is more athletic than I thought he was. Like, just like moves really well. And I think he's a guy who can play all five offensive line positions. Yeah, all three, tackle, guard, center.

[A]

And so again, we had talked about this. Ohio State has six of the top 32 players from Ohio according to the 24, 7 composite ratings in this class. Clemson has three. Clemson is the school with the, with the, the greatest number of players after Ohio State, from Ohio. So when Clemson comes in to, to the state of Ohio and goes after a guy, like, that's a real thing. Right. What was the name of the guy that they got several years ago who then in Ohio State played in the playoff? Offensive lineman. Why can't I think his name? Jackson. Carmen. Isn't it confusing? Jackson Cantwell. Jackson. Carmen.

[B]

A lot of Jacksons out there these days.

[A]

A lot of Jackson's.

[B]

All the ck, you get an excess.

[A]

All the Brady's play quarterback. All the Jacksons play offensive line.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Yeah. You ran through all the Brady quarterbacks on the Wednesday show. That's a good show. Wednesday wasn't that good for the subsequent.

[B]

It was good, yeah. I'm a nurse, a narcissist. I was listening to a little bit on my drive back from Cleveland yesterday.

[A]

Yeah, I. I'm not sure what a professional therapist would say about that. I don't think there's anything wrong with listening to yourself as you drive down the road, I don't think.

[B]

Well, I listen to it to just kind of hear myself talk and see what I can improve upon or like, make sure my audio is okay or whatever. But also, you know, people like the sound of their own voice.

[A]

Yeah, I listen to it just to bathe in the luxury of, of what we do on a daily basis. Yeah, I'm not looking to improve. What, are you kidding me? Although every now and then, because sometimes I think when people say, I don't like that squeaky voice guy, I'm like, that is not fair. That is not a fair criticism. Why would someone Call me a squeaky voice guy. And then I did just, like, sort of by mistake, turn on the middle part of the Wednesday show. And I was going, dabo, what's so great about Greenville? And I was like, oh, yeah, I get it now. Maybe I should watch that.

[B]

Have you ever. Not to sound entirely full of ourselves. Have you ever had the experience of walking around somewhere in Columbus or driving your car somewhere in Columbus and someone is driving, listening to our podcast with their windows down, and then you hear yourself off in the distance? Because that happened to me one time and it really freaked me out.

[A]

Really, like freaked you out? Like lifted you off the ground and made you feel like you could fly or freaked you out? Like it made. Gave you a pit in your stomach.

[B]

It gave me a pit in my stomach, the realization that people actually listen to this stuff.

[A]

It is.

[B]

What. What?

[A]

How many? Like 50. Wow. Why would anyone do that? So these are. These are like the two big guys in the class, right? And again, they're the top two tackles in the state. It's like, these are good. There's a part like, this is how this should work. And if Sam Greer was going to Texas A M, we'd probably be having a different conversation today.

[B]

We would. I. I guess I'll ask you this. So. So I think you and I are in favor of taking sort of the. Whatever you want to call it, Wild card flyer. We think this guy has a chance to really pop, even if he's not highly rated kind of offensive lineman. But you do need to have that balance of, like, this guy can like those guys, and then like, this. This dude can definitely play kind of guys. And Greer and Riley are. Are in the latter category. Like, they can play. They're going to play at Ohio State. Do you think Ohio State is short one of those guys in this class?

[A]

I. So let's have this discussion here. I went back through, like 25 years of these offensive line recruiting classes. Do you know how many years back in the day I came across where they took one offensive lineman?

[B]

It is remarkable. I would hope none.

[A]

But it's not none.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I think there might have been a year where they took none, but back in the day, because this is in the era, like in the trestle era, when he, you know, Ohio State wasn't over signing. A lot of places were. And it's like, oh, what's Ohio State's recruiting class? Oh, they got 17 guys, including one offensive lineman. How do you function? How do you build a football team? What is this? And so I Will say that the number of times where, like, where three was very normal. Three was so normal. I think.

[B]

Two.

[A]

Guys that you're saying like you can kind of just look at their body type where they are right now, their feet, their frame and say I'm pretty. There's no guarantees. You can go back. I go back, I'm not gonna say the guy's name, but there's like a five star guy from Ohio who came through here one time. I don't even think he ever played a first team rep in practice. And it was like what happened there, like nobody gave me like the huge recruit. Yeah. And so it happens. I think probably as long as you have the numbers at the second level where you're, you're taking enough dice rolls. I think two. Yeah. And three or four maybe is a decent ratio because I think if you believe you're going to hit on the top two, you're not going to go two for two every time. But you think you can go two for two some of the time and at least one for two almost all the time. And then the other three or four, if you're getting one or two out of them, you're going one for three, you're going two for four. I think that's enough of a ratio. When you're only taking three, man, it's like it better be. You better have all three in the top group. But I think the numbers at the bottom and we can talk about the numbers and, and the overall should they be taking. Well, let's talk about it now. Do you think the numbers there, you know, just a little more uncertainty but improve your chances with, with volume can actually balance that out?

[B]

Yeah, I think so. Because I'm, I'm very much in favor of take five offensive linemen every year. But I also understand that if you're, if you're gonna do that, you're not gonna get five. Sam Greer. So, so if you're, if you're gonna take five, you have to probably have at least two, two of the more developmental kind of, kind of swings and to your point like maybe, maybe again like to go back to the rev share stuff and the money stuff. Maybe it's just more realistic to think like, well if we can again not guarantee but feel reasonably good about like we're getting two offensive line starters out of this group and then we'll see what else happens. That's probably okay. And I also think it all depends on the situation the roster's in. If you look at this offensive line room they're not fixing to lose a lot. I think after this year, Ethan Onion was out of eligibility. He's the only one Tiger Shabola will see. Carson Hinsman, we'll see. But they could return basically the entire room next year too. So I think that that lessens the need to make sure you have a third Sam Greer, Max Riley in this class.

[A]

Yeah, but I, and I think, and I think fans understand this, the world has changed. It is no longer a limit of 85 scholarships, which did so, so previously when you talked about it, it's about a spot, right? You have, you're taking up one of those 85 scholarship spots. Of course you can have walk on to contribute that kind of thing. But mostly it's like one of those 85 spots. And then in a class it's like, okay, One of those 23, 24, 25 spots in a class, that spot is valuable. But if you miss on a guy, if, if it just doesn't work out like what is lost? And of course it's, you know, we're talking about it from a team perspective here. What is lost is the spot, is, is the roster spot. But you have, you know, you don't got, you don't, no one's going 85 for 85. So now you can go up to 100, 105 scholarships. Okay, so no, most teams are not going to go up to 105 scholarships, but the spot matters far less. So they're at 28, as we record here on Thursday, 28 commitments in the class of 2026. Who knows what they might get up to? But, but they have a little more wiggle room in the spot. Now it's about the investment and the investment means money. Now it's also time and energy and what coaches and the program and those resources put into a player. But, but they mostly mean money. Whether it is the school directly paying in the revenue share or whether it is the nil budget and trying to allocate where it should go. So for instance, and we don't know this specifically when you're talking about that investment. And Ryan Day very specifically was using that term investment this, this last two weeks. And talking about this, you could be in a situation where you might be putting as much financial resources into four players as you could be putting into one player if you chose to go to the wall to pay for a five star guy. So if you spread that out and these are good players, they are all worth it. But it's not quite the money level. And if you go two for four. Well, that's actually a better return on your investment maybe than you got by giving it all to one guy. And then if that guy, for whatever reason doesn't hit, it's a huge blow from your investment portfolio. Right. So I do think in the end, two, two kind of sure things on the go line, and then three or four dice rolls, development, that's called developmental. That's a better frame, three or four developmental. I think that sounds like a good financial plan for Ohio State.

[B]

Yeah, it's a little bit like, what if the New York Yankees also played moneyball, right? Like, just like you live, you live, live in both worlds. And I realize money ball can be taken pejoratively, but we're just talking about allocating resources. And then like you said, getting maybe three guys for the price of one sometimes might be a more sound investment. But I think like not, and not every program can operate that way. But I do think Ohio State is probably positioned to operate that way. So I think it does. Yeah, I think it makes sense. I don't, I, maybe I'm a little too stuck in the old world when I, when I think they should have maybe one more of that caliber of guy. But I think if you told me like you could have one more of that caliber of guy, but it's a three man class, I might take this class instead, the five man class.

[A]

And I do think so. So this is a very dicey, not dicey thing to discuss because every individual player has to do what is best for them. If you don't look out for number one, nobody else is going to look out for you. You have to do what is best for you and your family in the situation. And now that includes getting as much money as you can. That doesn't mean that, you know, $1 more and you'll go to any school in the country. But I do think from an investment standpoint, when you believe, are we going to get a return on this player? I would understand if you as a school feel like we are in a battle for this guy and if we go another extra hundred grand, we'll get him this national kid who's from six states away and is down to five schools. And it is a money battle and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with a kid doing that, but from a school perspective, trying to think like, how, how do we, how good do we feel about this paying off? Because it's like, why does this kid want to be here? It's because we went to the extra 100 grand to get him versus why does this kid want to be here? My God, he grew up, he was in a scarlet and gray onesie, right? Like that kind of thing. And so that investment of like part of it is internal within the player. And so I also can understand it from that Ohio State perspective if and, and they obviously are putting nal dollars into very talented players from around the country. But sometimes if you feel like, man, we have to go, well, it's so, it's so money oriented. Does this kid actually want to come here? Right. As opposed to let's spend on four kids who are dying to come here. Now, you can't only do that or you're going to wind up with a Mac roster. Right. But I, from a, from an investment standpoint and again, particularly on offensive line, which is probably the most developmental position in college football, I can understand why that particular investment discussion. There's a greater pool than at some other positions in the state of Ohio. It is more of a developmental position anyway. If you believe in your strength staff, in your nutrition staff, in your offensive line coach and all the extra offensive line coaches that they have hired and invested in. If you believe in your ability to develop maybe a great number of kids who are big and have long arms and have some want to. Right. Just. It's reinforcing. I'm just like reinforcing the thing we're saying the whole thing. This is the position to do it based on the available talent pool in the state and how great players are created at the offensive line position.

[B]

Yeah, it probably, honestly probably is the only position that Ohio State can take that approach to. I won't like be said this when we're doing the, the larger show on Substack, talking about the, the 2026 class as a whole. Right. This is just the beginning of the strategy. Like, we don't, we're not, we're not guaranteeing that it's going to work. But I think what we're kind of saying is we sort of see the vision for why Ohio State wants to operate this way and we think it can work. But I, we hate. Time will tell. But, but that's what will happen. Like we have, we have to see what, what these investments turn out to be if it's, if it's sort of the right position to take. But I do think we agree that it sort of makes sense to, to try to operate this way.

[A]

And the one thing is, it's a change even from last year. Last year's offensive Line started with the left tackle, who was a California high school kid who transferred from San Diego State. Its center was a Georgia high school kid who transferred from Alabama. The left guard, who then kicked out the left tackle had Ohio roots. His family was from Ohio, but he was from Texas. Right. The right tackle was from Indiana, which is a border state, but it's also not an in state guy. And then they had one starter on the offensive line from the state of Ohio, and that's the exception. Like, you go back through 2014, 2015, all Ohio guys, you know, Woody's teams, almost all Ohio guys. Cooper's two best teams on the offensive line, four out of five Ohio starters on the offensive line, five out of five Ohio starters on the offensive line. Like, they've been building through Ohio in its entire. Even in the Cooper years, even in the best urban years. So last year was kind of like a weird little thing. But now when you see Josh Padilla and Luke Montgomery and Austin Seravel, that's three Ohio kids from the same class. And in year three, two of them are starting and one is the sixth offensive lineman. Right. When you see what they've done, like, with a guy like Jake Cook that they got last year who they feel good about for the future. Gabe Van Sickle is not an Ohio kid, but he's a Michigan kid when it's a contiguous state. Some of the same reasoning applies. Right. So, like, and so here we are with four of five in Ohio. I just think part of the discussion here is it's. It's very different from what happened last year. And then again, not to pile on this, but they thought they were solving an offensive line problem by bringing in a Rice transfer this year, and it didn't work at all. And it turned out the left tackle answer was an Ohio kid had been sitting there the whole time. So I think we're reinforcing maybe that what had often been done is kind of what they should do again in the future. But it's not what they did last year when they won it all.

[B]

No, it's not. And I guess I was trying to think that to Ryan Day's best offensive line, I still think is 2019. That was. Who's the left tackle? Yeah, there was one Ohio guy on that line. Josh Myers.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right tackle was Brandon Bowen. Right tackle was Jonah Jackson. Center was Josh Myers. Left guard was Wyatt Davis. Left tackle, Was it npf? I can't remember if it was MPF or Thayer. No, I think it was Thayer. Okay, so he's from Ohio So two starters from Ohio.

[A]

So. So yeah, but like they gotta, like they're kind of getting back to this. So anyway, I have, I have all the lists for 20 years. I just can't find the right file. So. But the point, like that's part of the point that we're making here is that it has been normal in history for Ohio State to build its offensive lines from Ohio, but is not, not necessarily what they've done as of late. And this is a bit of a return to that. So anyway. Okay, but they, but the, I think the numbers are part of it. Like, like part of what? The, the move away from 85 to 105 I think makes this strategy significantly more possible because you can throw numbers at the issue because you're not bumping up against 85 scholarships as much. Do you agree with that?

[B]

I do agree with that. Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so it's like multiple factors here that are, that are playing into this. Okay, let's talk about now. I gotta find my. I have so many tabs up. I do, I do cut it down for the show, but I still have a lot lingering here. Let's go to the one non Ohio kid very quick because he still is going to be an Ohio State Buckeye. It's Tucker Smith. He's an interior offensive lineman from Arizona. He is the number 571 overall player in the 247 composite ratings. He is the number 45 interior offensive lineman. He was offered this March and committed a week later. A day after Sam Greer committed. He had offers from his. In state schools, Arizona and Arizona State. Bunch of other other Big 12 author offers. A couple like sort of like not, you know, second tier Big Ten offers. Not necessarily the offer profile that you would expect for an Ohio State guy. But as much as like Justin Fry, the former offensive line coach was the guy who made the initial offers to Maxwell Riley and Sam Greer. This is a Tyler Bowen guy through and through and they got him. He's the one non Ohio guy from the class and he does project interior offensive line bill.

[B]

It seems like, yeah, center, center regard would be my guess and I, I think we'll have to eventually talk with Tyler Bowen about it. I bet like you can watch Tucker Smith because he's just like a nasty dude and like offensive line coaches, they could fall in love with them pretty easily. So I bet Tyler Rowan did just, just watch it like, like a. This is my guy kind of pick, right? And like his, his offer sheet does not scream Ohio State otherwise. But that can also be a situation Where. Well, it would have had Ohio State not offered and got him so so quickly. Right. Like maybe other teams just didn't, just didn't feel like it was worth the time.

[A]

Yeah. But later in the process and I do think like a position coach, you need to give a position coach some leeway for a my guy. I love this guy's film. I talked to this guy. This guy's got like you said, nasty edge. Is, is a good way to get a offensive line coach is excited. All right. Last two guys in this class are Ohio kids. Landry Breed From Mentor Number 851 Overall player in the 247 composite ratings. Number 77 Offensive tackle. He committed in mid October. He had visited Pitt, North Carolina, North Carolina State in the summer. Had committed to North Carolina State in June. So this was a flip and this also seems like a Tyler Bowen guy that he talked to Bowen soon after Bowen got here in February and that kind of got the ball rolling here. And this is again, this is, this is more the kind of kid on this is maybe developmental but we believe this is a smart thing for Ohio State to be doing with these two guys. Landry Breed and then Mason Wilhelm.

[B]

Yeah, I, I like the play because the other like and, and one of the things that was written on Substack this week we talked about like a 2020 class and some of the swings they took their own in state guys. And I think it just turned out that like Ohio State was, was looking for this kind of like three star developmental prospect in that class but, but ended up just like taking guys who were sort of Mac level players at best. Right. So if you're going to do that, I, I find it much more palatable to flip guy flip guys from other Power 4 programs at the very least like take guys that have like legitimate power four offers even if, even if they're not going to Ohio State. So both Breed and, and Wilhelm filter fit that mold.

[A]

Yeah. So these are late for so breed again. NC State flipped away from them in October and then Mason Wilhelm was North Carolina. He flipped away from North Carolina to Ohio State on November 7th. This is a kid from St. Ed. He's the number 994 overall player in the 247 composites. He's the number 80 interior offensive lineman. Also Ohio State had an another out of state kid named Aaron Thomas committed. He decommitted from Ohio State and flipped the Minnesota. I have no detail, I have no idea what happened there. But like sometimes when that kind of thing happens, maybe it's A mutual parting of the ways.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I don't you know anything about Aaron Thomas?

[B]

Yeah, I think mutual partying the ways is probably right. Although I do think there was talk about him. He's a legacy to somewhere, but I don't think it's Minnesota.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I think there was a talk that he was going to flip to wherever his dad went to school, but I don't know that that was actually. But either way, yes. I don't think. What's the right way to say it? I don't think that's one that, like Ohio State was putting on much of a fight to keep. Yeah.

[A]

So he left and then they basically immediately got Mason Wilhelm.

[B]

Florida State is where his dad played. Sorry.

[A]

Ohio State's involved all these Florida State legacies in this. In this class. That's crazy. So Mason Wilhelm, son of Matt Wilhelm, is super excited. I talked to Mason on the phone the other night. You know, the way he explained it. And this is again, Ryan Day talking about allowing some senior films, some senior year production to influence Ohio State's recruiting and that I think coaches had kind of bemoaned the acceleration of the recruiting calendar for a while where it was like, man, like, we can't do this anymore. Everything's so early that you're going entirely off what a guy does as a sophomore and a junior in high school and you're not allowing it. And this is where a lot of this three star stuff comes in, Bill, is guys who are three stars and then you just, you need to see a little more. And Mason Wilhelm was describing that like Tyler Bowen and Ohio State kind of put a challenge up in front of him and said, like, this is what we want to see from your senior year. And then he knew specifically what he needed to do and he did it and he got an offer and he immediately committed and called Bill Belichick and said, sorry. And so that's the kind of thing too. Not that every, every college football player wants to do his very best, but like, if you're trying to judge the value of an investment, it's like, do you want to invest in something like that? And again, if it's a developmental project, but you put something out, do this, the person does it, you reward them, they immediately respond and say, let's do this. It seems like a good part of the strategy.

[B]

Yeah, that's what happened with Jay Cook, too. Jake Cook, I don't know, came to Columbus a thousand times trying to get an offer and I think was committed to Louisville and, and still just like kept coming to Ohio State because he was gonna get that offer and, and he got it. It's like, yeah, you want, it's a pretty good chance that it's probably going to work out when, when someone was working that hard just to get the opportunity to play at a place like Ohio State. And like you said, they're all, they're all working hard for it. But I think, I don't know, stuff like that gets you, get you in your feels a little bit, I think sometimes and you can't help it but be excited about what that could become. So, and I think again back to the 2020 thing, like they were offering guys then as juniors without waiting to see what they became as seniors. And it's like it's fine to be a three star prospect because if you're a three star prospect, you're going to go to school for free. That's awesome. But if you're not a three star prospect on your way to being a four or five star prospect, then you probably shouldn't be at Ohio State. So taking the time to watch the senior film with a guy like Wilhelm, with a guy like Breed, I, I think is, is probably the right stance for Ohio State to take even if it causes the classes to come together a little late. And I, I found myself also wondering like, can you still operate that way in the nil rev share world? And I guess the answer is yes. At least with, maybe with offensive lineman you can, I don't know if it's a winning strategy across the board. You might have to kind of pull that trigger a little earlier with players getting paid. But I do think it's working out well at this position for Ohio State.

[A]

In the end for me and evaluating a lot of the stuff in recruiting, it just to me is like, was it your plan or not? And if you have a plan and you execute your plan because I think process is going to get you to the right place in the end. And I think Ohio State believes that, that they believe that if they have a smart plan for how they want to financially invest in certain positions and then they believe in their evaluation, which they do. I think they believe in their, I mean everybody does. But like I think Ohio State would say we'll put up our high school evaluations of players against anybody in the country. So if you do that, what I, what I have not liked with Ohio State recruiting sometimes in the past because that, you know, it's recruiting and everybody gets excited and it's like everything's wonderful sometimes and I felt like there would be times in the past where it's like, well, we missed on that. Well, we missed on that. Well, we missed on that. Well, we missed on that. All right, who can we grab? And now you're taking guys late in the process and you're flipping them from Louisville or Iowa State or places like that. But I, sometimes I felt like, I don't know, like, if you were, if your heart was in it, it was like, well, we gotta have a guy. Like, we're, we'll literally just like, what's available, as opposed to maybe thinking, okay, we are going to be very open to two or three developmental, probably in state, but not only in state, but probably in state. Offensive lineman, who we are interested in, we are not ready to offer, who we've asked to work on certain things, and they show us something on senior film, and then we pick the guys from that group who show us the most, and that's part of the plan. As opposed to, like, I don't, I don't know. I guess this. And I just, it, this feels like just a little bit of a transition to me. Even if the outcome is the same, like, the outcome of the class is like, I don't know. What are you talking about? You got two offensive linemen from Ohio or neighboring states who are in the 800s. What's the difference of how you get them? I actually think the difference of how you get them is the whole thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I just, I, I, I am more accepting of where Ohio State is now with this kind of player and this kind of recruiting than I ever have been before, because I usually typically was very down. I'm like, well, congratulations on getting plan D after you missed on the top three guys. You thought you were, you thought you're gonna get a tier one guy. No, you didn't get him. You didn't get the three tier one guys at this position. You thought you're gonna get these three tier two guys. Nope. Now you're down to tier three. And now you're flipping guys from Iowa State. And we're supposed to think like, well, this is how Ohio State's gonna win national titles. I never bought that. But I buy this because I think it's different.

[B]

I, I think it's different. And the other thing with the, and I think it's true with these offensive line comments. Right. It's not like, yes, Ohio State was, was sort of slow playing the offer and with some guys had, like, contingencies, like, do this, this and this. And we'll talk. But I think still recruited them like they were whatever four star fives, like kept that relationship strong. So it didn't feel like whatever they were, they were pivots from Ohio State's initial plan, I think, but both like for us people analyzing it and for the players themselves. So eventually say yes, because I'm reminded of like 2019. They didn't like hit on anybody and then like they try to go to J.D. duPlane at the last seconds like, hey, you want to flip for Michigan State? And he said no, like what? Like you haven't recruited me my entire recruitment and now you've missed on all your guys. You want to throw me an offer and just assume that I'll flip. Like I'm not going to do that. So there is, in addition to the monetary investment, there is, there is a time investment that I think Ohio State is also doing well with these types of players to make sure that if everything else lines up when it is time to offer feels right for the player to still say yes. Yes.

[A]

Last guy probably worth mentioning. They didn't get, they tried to get Kevin Brown, who's from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania and was a Penn State commit. And Penn State's class is blowing up. But he's also a West Virginia legacy. And Ohio State I think was pretty interested, but he committed to West Virginia on the McAfee show and he burned a couch while he was committing. And it's like, but that actually, it's like. So he's from Pennsylvania. He committed to the home state school. When the home state school fired its coach, he committed to the school that his dad went to. And it's like, I don't. Okay, like you lose. So Ohio State. Those are the two ways Ohio State didn't get that kid. One's the home state, one's the legacy. It's like, I don't know, like you said. And then that you throw on a couch. Not that they're incapable of burning couches. There have been couches burned in Columbus, Ohio, I think not to the frequency or the efficiency of, of the couches burned in Morgantown, West Virginia.

[B]

That, that, yeah, that is, that is correct. Pretty transparent, I think. What, what happened there. There was one other guy in the class that I was really kind of hoping Ohio State would find a way to get. That was Darius Gray, interior offensive lineman from Richmond, Virginia, who is composite number 37. And that's like he was. I guess it was. Wasn't this past summer. It must have been the summer before. Whatever. It was like I was at the camp where Darius Gray came up just to, like, work out. And it was awesome. It's like, this kid's a dog. They need to get this kid in the class. And I think it's probably a case of. Of again, like, he's going to South Carolina. South Carolina put a lot of eggs in a Darius Gray basket that I just think Ohio State was. Was not willing to do. Yeah.

[A]

And then, you know, this is part of what. How we're thinking about it and writing about it at Substack. But they already have three offensive linemen committed in 2027. They have Mason Wilt from Saint Clairsville in Ohio. They have Kellen Weimer from Liberty center in Ohio. And they just added Brody McNeil from Virginia. And I don't. Did McNeil. So Tyler Bowen came from Virginia Tech. Right. I don't know if, like. So he. Do you think he had that Virginia connection mattered at all for.

[B]

Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure it did. I was actually. Somebody asked me that I was looking to see. I'm pretty sure Bowen offered him while he was still a Virginia Tech. Or. Or maybe. I think. I think it was that his. His offer to Virginia Tech actually came after Tyler Bowen had left.

[A]

But.

[B]

But Tyler Bowen had clearly, like, started the relationship there.

[A]

Okay. Quite a thing for Tyler Bowen that he decided to leave Virginia Tech to come to Ohio State, and then Virginia Tech fired its guy. Its coach, and then he would have been looking for a job or trying to get.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Although James Franklin might have kept him because he worked at Penn State before, right?

[B]

He did. Yeah. And I'm sure that James. Frank. James Franklin, in his introductory press conference said that he called, like, the top 40 high school players in the state of Virginia, which would include Brody McNeil. So I'm sure they'll try to recruit him to Virginia tech. But.

[A]

Brody McNeil or Tyler Bowen?

[B]

No.

[A]

Brody.

[B]

Brody McNeil. Brody McNeil. I don't know. We'll see. Phil Troutwine has been James Franklin's offensive line coach for the last few years. I'm assuming he'll just go to Virginia Tech with him.

[A]

But Tyler Bowen was, like, the tight ends coach at Penn State.

[B]

Is that he was a tight ends coach? Yeah, he was a good one.

[A]

Like.

[B]

Like who was before he, like, recruited Tyler Warren to Penn State. But he was also coaching, like, Mike Gasicki and those guys, I think. Oh, yeah.

[A]

Okay. I mean, we're not, like, projecting that James Franklin's gonna steal Tyler Bowen back. Although the. The mountains of Blacksburg, Virginia are lovely.

[B]

I would imagine that Ohio State can pay Tyler Bowen more than what Virginia Tech would want to pay him.

[A]

And one of the things I, I worked in Blacksburg, Virginia for. Well, nearby I worked in Rowan for three months for. On an internship.

[B]

Oh, nice.

[A]

And they had an excellent Pizza Hut buffet that I would imagine is closed. I'm not saying that's the best thing about that area of Virginia, but it's one of the best things. All right. Anything else? So. So we would invite people come join us over on Substack. This is good. Kind of test it out because guess what? It's go time. So we have like this three day offensive line series that we are doing over on our sub stack. Bill and Doug. Osu.substack.com and then you know what's coming? The Michigan game is coming. And then after the Michigan game, it's national signing day. That'll be coming. So we'll have that. And then if Ohio State beats Michigan, it'll be the Big Ten championship game. And then regardless. Do you think Ohio State's in the playoff right now?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Even if, even if Greg. Even if Greg comes in and drops a big jersey bomb right on their heads. Still in at 10 and 2.

[B]

I would like to not entertain that possibility, but yeah. Yeah, I would think so. Just like they'd have to go play like at Georgia or something if that were to happen. Yeah.

[A]

So we go into that game high state of Georgia first.

[B]

Are you allowed at that game?

[A]

I don't know. Can you imagine? Oh my God, that would be the highlight of my career if they were like, that guy's not allowed in the stadium. Oh my God. Have you heard? Yeah, like if they're playing my Stetson Bennett impersonation for the ad and he found it offensive to Georgia culture and they've denied my pass. Oh, that's my ticket to the big time.

[B]

Bill. Yeah.

[A]

You want to do whatcha?

[B]

Sure, let's do it.

[A]

Yeah, we're gonna do what you're watching, what you eat and what you're thinking. We normally do this every Wednesday on our big show for Substack subscribers. We like to sprinkle it in here on YouTube in the free podcast feed every now and then. We just went so deep on a full two hours of recruiting discussion yesterday, Bill. On the Wednesday show, we knew we weren't going to have time to talk about hot dogs and Hulu series because it was too much ball talk.

[B]

Too much ball talk, which is great.

[A]

But so this, that time we did like eight position Groups in two hours. We did one position group in an hour here. Only one position group. There is a part of me that would want to do a nine hour recruiting podcast though. Right? Don't you want to do a nine hour podcast at some point in your life?

[B]

Maybe. Maybe a part of you. There's not a part of me that wants to do.

[A]

Oh, my God. That's a great. I'm trying to think of, like, off season stuff to keep the folks enticed. Like a podcast marathon.

[B]

Marathon.

[A]

How long can we go?

[B]

Yeah, for charity.

[A]

Oh, I thought the charity was us. Oh, for charity. No, that's a better idea.

[B]

What? We could do it and like, turn on super chats and stuff and like, donate the money to charity.

[A]

Oh, what a great idea. How long can we go? We could definitely do a work day. Couldn't we do an eight hour show?

[B]

Yeah. Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I think the biggest obstacle would be your ability to tolerate my presence for eight straight hours on or off the mic.

[B]

We should actually do this because we could, like, bring in guests and stuff too.

[A]

Yeah, we'll, we'll do it in the off season. We have like a giant playoff run to get through. But, but like, this is, this is a good off season plan. The Bill and Doug, can we be part of the charity? Can we keep 20 of the money? No, it's for charity. No, it's for charity. We're fine. We're fine. I could do I buy Christmas gifts. Let's do. What should. Bill Landis. What are you watching?

[B]

So last last night I realized, like, I needed to watch something for this. So I, I, I fired up on Netflix. There's a documentary series about, like, the Philadelphia mob war on Netflix, which happened like in the eight, like late 80s, early 90s. And I was born in 88. So like, I, I, I missed it. Like, I don't really know much about it. So I was like, oh, this seems interesting. I'm a gentleman who appreciates the fine city of Philadelphia. It sucked. I couldn't. I made it like 30 minutes. It's a three episode documentary series. I mean, like 30 minutes into the first episode because it's just about like cops setting up cameras. It's like they spent legitimate, like 15 minutes on cops. FBI. I think it was at the FBI setting up their surveillance thing on some dude in the mafia. And it's like, this is incredibly boring. And I understand, like, the nature of the mafia being what it is. You're probably not going to get a lot of guys to sit in front of a camera and talk about it. And no offense to the fine men and women of law enforcement, but I don't want to watch a documentary about the Mafia from the perspective of the police. I want to watch it from the perspective of the guys who were doing it. And all it is is just like a bunch of old FBI agents and police officers and investigators talking about how they tried to get these guys. And it just was not. Not for me was pretty big. Pretty big letdown. So I would not recommend watching it to anybody who thought that that might be interesting. Unless you like police procedural documentaries.

[A]

Is it perhaps that just the Mafia is better fictionalized because they're not great at sitting down for interviews?

[B]

Yeah, maybe, sure. Also, part of the thing that, like, piqued my interest in it too, is the fact, like, that this, like, NBA gambling thing that's going on that's also, like, tied up in the New York Mafia. It's like, I didn't even know that it still existed. Like, the idea that like, like, clearly, like, organized crime exists in some. Some element, but like, old school Mafia, like sports, gambling rings, Like, I had no idea that that stuff still still existed. So. So somebody should make a documentary about that. But make sure they actually talk to the Mafia this time, because this one, it was like they had like, police and then like, one or two journalists who were. Who weren't bad. And then like a guy who is just like an Italian dude who wore a nice suit, who like, looked like a guy who would be in the mafia, but was just more of like a mafia enthusiast, talking about, like, guys from Philadelphia who he had never met before.

[A]

Mafia enthusiast. Okay, I won't watch it.

[B]

Don't watch.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I. I do. I just. It thrills me, the idea again of you being forced to participate in pop culture doing a. During a very busy football season. So you have something to talk about for watching.

[B]

Yeah, I had to cut. I turned it off early because it was bad. And then I. I did start watching. There's another documentary about the Montreal Expos on Netflix. Oh, that I did start watching. And it is pretty good, but I fell asleep, like, in the middle of it, so I need to finish watching it.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, that'll be good. Now that one. That one I should watch.

[B]

It's in French.

[A]

Oh, it is?

[B]

Oh, yeah. Partly. Yeah, I.

[A]

So, yeah, no, I covered baseball at a time when the Expo still existed. And so they were in the same division as the Philadelphia Phillies, which is the team that I covered. And so I was going to Montreal like, three times a year. And I. I've told this. So one of. I don't care about Stu. One was that, like, the players and some of the coaches and stuff and some of the media, there was, like, a super famous strip club in Montreal that everybody would be excited to go to. And so, like, I was a very young baseball writer, just, like, trying to fit in, but I was married. And so, like, I said to my wife, like, can I go to the strip club with everybody because it's super famous and it's what everybody does. And then she was like, yes, you idiot. You can go to the strip club with everybody. And then I never went, but I did get permission to go.

[B]

That's good.

[A]

But it was like, the place. I can't remember the name of it. I think it had duh in the name or love.

[B]

Sure. I think, like, Montreal and like Tampa, Florida are like the two strip call strip club capitals of the world, right?

[A]

Yeah. Yes.

[B]

Which is great for a Phillies beat writer to go to Montreal three times a year and then go to spring training in Clearwater.

[A]

It's for work. I need to go to the strip club with the fellas for work. And then the other one is when I would check into the hotel in Montreal where I typically stayed, they'd be like, oh, monsieur le merdes. And then they start speaking French to me. In America, nobody could pronounce my name. And in Montreal, they were like, you are one of us. Welcome. And then they speak French to me, and I'd be like, it's just a name. Some people. Some people who speak English have French names. Quit speaking French to me.

[B]

Yeah, do you. You don't have any French.

[A]

That means a little. So this is actually related a little bit to what you said. So I finished watching this show that was whatever. But there's a bookie character in the show, and. And bookie characters are so good in TV and movies because they're a little dangerous, but they're not murderers. It is like a very. Like, you can have a bookie beyond. And it brings, like, a little edge to. To what's happening, but it's not exactly like, hey, they're just hanging out with a murderer. And I'm like, has legalized sports betting, killed the bookie and killed the bookie character. Because in this show, it was at all her fault show that I talked about. There's a bookie character. And it was like, oh, no, this guy has, like, a gambling debt with the bookie. And it's like, what do you mean? He has a gambling debt with a bookie. He's a fan.

[B]

Dual.

[A]

What are you talking about? Like, this is not. This is not realistic to me anymore. Who is. Are people betting with bookies? I know there's some states, I guess, where it's not legalized, but it, like, took me out of the show to be like, oh, here comes the bookie. And it's like, no, we just have, like. It is a very serious issue for many people, I think, especially some young people, of being a, in debt to the app on your phone. That's the thing. But, like, the app on your phone's not a very compelling character on TV or in movies. So, A, are people talking to the bookies about. Has that entire line of work dried up? And B, don't write it into your show anymore?

[B]

I don't know that the entire line of work has dried up. And I think that's mostly because of the limits that are placed on online sports gambling, like legalized sports gambling. So if you want to bet more, I think you still have to use, like, I. I know someone who still uses a bookie.

[A]

Someone who's been on the show. Okay. Well, now I feel better. So I should still find bookie characters realistic because they still exist in real life.

[B]

Yeah, they probably exist less than they used to. Yeah.

[A]

Okay. My bookie, they call him the king. The draft king. Hey, he's in my phone. He's gonna break my knees. I don't.

[B]

What about it? What about, like, a sitcom about, like, a bunch of bookies who have to learn how to code because they lost their jobs?

[A]

That. Do you. Do you wanna. Are you leaving the Bill and Doug show tomorrow to write that? Genius idea. Oh, my God. It is like, the world's changing, man. So we're just.

[B]

We're not.

[A]

We're not taking jobs away from bookies. We're just creating opportunities for them to do something else with their lives.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Bookie training. That would be a great political platform. It's like, I will train the bookies. What? Eaton?

[B]

I. Nothing like new or spectacular lately, but I did the other night, and, like, Thanksgiving is next week. I understand this, but it was last week, I was just like, I want stuffing with dinner. So I made stuffing. What do we think about having Thanksgiving sides, like, not on Thanksgiving. Are we in favor.

[A]

I don't know. Why is it. It's the only food that people think they're not allowed to eat during the rest of the year. Is there any other food that is part of a special Occasion to the extent it's like. Because, like, I. I love turkey. Do you eat turkey the rest of the year? I go almost 364 days without eating turkey. I love turkey. I love stuffing. Why aren't we eating this on a Thursday night?

[B]

I definitely eat, like, turkey lunch meat, but, no, I'm not. I'm not carving up. Carving up a bird for dinner unless it's Thanksgiving. Yeah.

[A]

Why is that? Like, is it. Is there a. Are, I guess, are turkeys now that you can still get a nice turkey breast, right? Like. Like, still. But I guess there's not turkeys sitting around at the grocery stores in April. If you went to a grocery store in April and said, I'd like a turkey, would they have one?

[B]

That's a great question. I don't know.

[A]

Now they have a box of stovetop, though, or whatever you do with stuffing. Stuffing. I have. We have stuffing. Why aren't we eating stuffing every week? I think we need to normalize stuffing. You're changing lives here, Bill. How good was the stuff?

[B]

It was tremendous. It was. It was cornbread stuffing, too, which, like, it was just a nice. Nice. It was stovetop still, but it was cornbread stuffing, so there's a little. Little more sweetness to it, which was great. It makes me want to, like, go to a grocery store after Thanksgiving and just, like, pick a random, like, box of stovetop that's on a shelf and then mark it and then go back in six months and see if it's still there. Is stuffing a box of stovetop stuffing the thing that sits on the shelf the longest at a grocery store without somebody buying it?

[A]

That's a good documentary that I would watch. Here's the other thing, because I often talk about this, I think a crouton is one of the more underrated pieces of food and that we should think about croutons in different ways. And not only on salad, but then sometimes, like, when you're making a box of stove. Stop. Don't you. You get. You pour it out, and it's like, there they are. There they are.

[B]

I thought the top of you in your mouth.

[A]

Yeah, but, like, it's. We're cooking up croutons to make stovetop right now. I gotcha. Like, we. We're okay like that. That. I had that realization the other day.

[B]

Dry stovetop as a salad topping.

[A]

Oh, my God. We got to get stovetop as a. As an advertiser on here. We're creating a whole nother avenue for. Oh, yeah. Because there would be a way because when you cook it, when the water is, like, you soften it could be something. A way to take the same bag of stovetop, but maybe crisp it up a little, like in an air fryer. Take your stovetop, pour it out in an air fryer, bake it, air fry it for five minutes, and pour it on a salad, or pour it on, like, as a. Like a vegetable topping, or just use.

[B]

It as breadcrumbs, or just take it to the face. What if you. I wonder if people have done this. Like, can you take the stovetop, crisp it up, and then, like, get a hammer and just, like, pulverize it and then use that as breading for fried chicken?

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Maybe the fattest thing I've ever said.

[A]

No, no, no. This is because it is. I have. I have six boxes, stovetop in my pantry right now. They've been there for three years. What are we doing? We love it. We feel like we're not allowed to eat it. It's June. Let me reach for a box of stovetop. What are you doing? Yeah, it's not stuffing time. Why is there stuffing time? There's not a. People eat green bean casserole at Thanksgiving. If you eat a green bean in July or February, people aren't yelling at you like, you're a lunatic.

[B]

Right.

[A]

What are we doing here?

[B]

People eat mashed potatoes year round.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Corn.

[A]

What. What is the difference? But I like. Do people pull out a side of cranberry?

[B]

No.

[A]

No.

[B]

I think you'll see cranberry at Thanksgiving and maybe on Christmas, depending on what you're doing for Christmas dinner. But I love cranberry sauce.

[A]

If you said to somebody on September 3rd, hey, I'm cooking dinner. Oh, cool. What are we having? Turkey, stuffing, and cranberry sauce on September 3rd? I think 85 of Americans would at least, like, get a quizzical look on their face of like, why are we doing that? And not that they would be mad, but they would think it's odd.

[B]

They would think it's odd. I'd be fired up if somebody. If I got invited to a dinner at, like, an odd time of the year and it was Thanksgiving dinner, I would be ecstatic.

[A]

Yes. And, like, when I've talked, like, I've talked about that Earl of Sandwich place that I love, that is, like, the thing I get there every time is, like, the Thanksgiving dinner sandwich. And I get it year round. But part of the reason that sandwich is attractive because it's. Because it feels naughty. It's like, ooh, should I Be doing this. It's a summer Thanksgiving sandwich that's. See, last week we talked about how to be cool, hedonistic, pleasure seeking. Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Makes me cool to eat a Thanksgiving sandwich in July. All right, let's normalize Thanksgiving food year round. Thank you for inspiring us about. And the stovetop people. Please reach out to Bill for recipe ideas and for sponsorship opportunities.

[B]

Please.

[A]

Are you in on the Biscoff cookie?

[B]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

We had. This is actually funny you bring that up, because we went to Wits and got the special was Biscoff cookie ice cream last week, and we got a quart of it, and I was not able to have any of it because.

[A]

Your son and your wife went to town. Mm. Yeah. Respect. Yeah. So the Biscoff cookie is so good, but I'm wondering if it's a gateway food to Britishness because. Oh, I have been eaten. I got the little package of Biscoff cookies. They're delicious. Also, it's like. So Biscoff cookies are a modern commercialization of a traditional Belgian and Dutch speculus recipe. I thought they were British. I didn't know they were Belgian and Dutch. Lotus bakeries commercialized the recipe in 1932, and the brand became known globally for its unique taste and iconic red packaging. It's good, but I'm not a tea drinker, but I most think about drinking tea when I'm eating a Biscoff cookie. And is that part of the plan? Are they trying to get me to be a tea drinker? I will eat it with coffee, but it feels wrong. And are you a tea drinker? Are you a hot tea drinker?

[B]

I will. I will mix in a hot tea. Yeah. From time to time, for sure. And I get like, yeah. Something about a Biscoff cookie. You just want to, like, dip it in a cup of tea, right?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah. Undeniably European.

[A]

Undeniably European.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're trying to get me. They're trying to get me. Usa. Usa. Damn. I love your cookie. So I know what you're doing. I know what you're doing, but it is a delicious cookie. And I'm always looking. I'm a huge oatmeal guy. I'm always looking for the. For the chocolate chip alternative. It's. I'm just. I don't really want chocolate in my cookie. And so I. The Biscoff hits. But also, if I've come on here speaking like this next week, you'll know what happened, because they got me all the way. All right.

[B]

I like, the first time I Ever flew on Delta and they gave me a Biscoff cookie. I thought it was the height of luxury. Nothing can ever be better. Yeah.

[A]

It also makes you feel fancy. It makes you feel like you should eat it with your pinky.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Again, we're all these associations with food. Can't we just eat? Can't we just eat and be happy? It's like this. This food is making us feel certain things and think it's a certain time of the year. We're changing the dates of the calendar and our nationalities based on the food we're eating. Bill, what are they doing to us?

[B]

What are you thinking about feats of civil engineering? I. I live on the side of. On the east side of Columbus, like, basically right near the. The corridor where 70 and 71 connect and then connect in downtown and then split off into their respective directions. But it's like the worst bottleneck in the history of bottlenecks. So they're doing this, like, gigantic. I think it's called, like, ramp up project. That's like. I was watching a video about it the other day. It's like, $1.4 billion. And when they announced it 10 years ago, they said it wasn't going to be done until, like, 2035. But, like, I just. I see it, like, almost every day because I have to drive through it to get to anywhere I want to go in Columbus, and, like, they just recently opened, like, one of the new ramps that is built to, like, alleviate the congestion. And it just, like, it is like, I wish it was happening quicker. I understand why it can't, but it is a heck of a thing to see them, like, reroute the entire highway on the fly without stopping traffic during the day in a. In an area that is far too small for what this city has become. So, yeah, I've just been impressed by it, and it's nice to see it. Like, actually, I feel like when I was a kid in Philly and, like, there was always i95 construction, but, like, it never led to anything. Just like, they've been doing this my entire life, and nothing about it is different. And, like, you actually see the changes happening here, which is, like, kind of cool. Again, I wish it was happening quicker, but that's. That it's happening at all. It's nice to see whatever tax dollars at work, I guess, and actually, like, trying to fix what is legitimately, like, a real problem on the east side of Columbus because that bottleneck is really terrible.

[A]

And I just. I'm always just like, you're sure to work. How do you know? It's like, we did models, we ran stuff. It's like, yeah, but how do you know?

[B]

Right? One guy. Is it one guy's plan just like. Like, he locked himself in a room for three weeks, and they're like, here it is. Go execute it. Or is like, is it?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Board rooms full of people who are diagramming these things like architecture, civil engineering, and architecture.

[A]

And like, that person is the same species as us. And that person figured out a way to build a road in the sky. And we were like, hey, how should we organize our podcast about how to talk about the offensive line today? What should we do first and what should we do second? And like, a road in the sky. It's just like, I don't understand how humans figure out how to do that and are sure that it's going to work.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[A]

Because, like, the number of times that I come on this show and I forget to turn my microphone on. Right. Like that got that person, that man or woman who's building the road in the sky can't forget to turn their microphone on. Like, you can't make those little mistakes or the road falls out of the sky. What a responsibility.

[B]

Yeah. It's also cool to. As these new ramps and stuff open up and you drive on them, you can think to yourself like, I am one of the first people to drive on this road.

[A]

Yeah. The only thing I always associated, like, the first time you go to Los Angeles, there's just roads in the sky everywhere. And that, to me, it's like, if. Name three things about Southern California, it's like palm trees and maybe roads in the sky is second. And so I think, like, well, that's. That's the place where they have roads in the sky. So when then you start having roads in the sky in Columbus, it sort of makes me feel like we're on the Jetsons a little bit. Because, like, I get it why it's in la.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now we're in the future, Bill.

[B]

That's right. Well, we are the LA of the Midwest. Yes, we are.

[A]

All right, so what I'm thinking about is. And I've. And I've talked to this about this a lot. This is like kind of my number one things. It's self preservation, primarily. But also, I really believe it is, like, I don't want to hear the ins and outs of celebrity daily life, which is why I don't like listening to podcasts by celebrities. I like listening to regular people who talk about famous People, I like the buffer. I believe in the buffer because I like athletes and celebrities and like to have a little air of mystery. And that doesn't mean they shouldn't talk to other people and have their stories told. But, like, I don't need to know their ins and outs. We reveal the ins and outs of our lives, but we're just like the people watching this and listening to this. We're the same as you. Millionaire actors and athletes are. Are at least slightly different than you. And maybe you like the idea that. That it's very relatable stuff, but I've just run across too many things where people that I really like in their celebrity Persona, when I see them on TV doing the thing that they're very, very good and special at, then when I hear them as normal person, I don't like them anymore. So this thing sticks in my head. I just, for whatever reason, put on the movie Game Night the other night. It is Rachel McAdams and Jason Bateman who are just two of my favorite people to see on screen. I find both of them just incredibly delightful. It also features Jesse Plemons, who is like, one of the great actors of our generation now as just, like the weird neighbor. And it is like this guy is acting his patootie off as the weird neighbor. It is so good. It also has a million other great actors in that show for no reason. Right. It has Winston from New Girl. It has Sharon Horgan, who I love. It has Kyle Chandler. All these random people are popping up in there. But this is all I can think about, because one time I listened to Jason Bateman's podcast. He does the podcast with Sean Hayes and Will Arnett called Smartless. Smartless. I was gonna say shameless. Smartless. And they talk about things and it's like, maybe my wife listens to it, but it's maybe the one time I listened to it and Jason Bateman was explaining that he goes number two once a day in the morning right before he showers, and then that's it. And then he finds it odd that anybody else would go number two and then not immediately shower. And I have consumed every piece of Jason Bateman content from when he was on Silver Spoons when he was 9. I love Jason Bateman. I probably see a little of myself in Jason Bateman. I aspire to be Jason Bateman. But now every time I watch him on screen, I think about, he's the guy who poops and then showers, and I don't want to know that.

[B]

Yeah, I used to listen to that show and have since stopped because I think it's just like kind of the same thing over and over again now. But I would prefer to not know that about Jason Bateman.

[A]

Ozark, one of the great performances.

[B]

Teen Wolf, too.

[A]

Century Incredible. He was in the little movie about like, hey, there's a bomb in your carry on bag or whatever. Like, he was good in that. He's good and everything called Carry On.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So anyway, just with. It's okay to be like a little air of mystery. I don't think people want mystery from us because we're. There's nothing special about us at all. There's nothing different. There is nothing special. There is no obvious talent here. We're just a bunch of jam oaks talking about football. But Jason Bateman, there's a thing about him. Arrested Development. Look at that performance. He is at the center of absurdity and keeping that show running. And he poops and then he showers and it just shatters. It just shatters the mystery in a way that I don't think serves anybody. It doesn't serve me. I don't think it serves him. And just maybe go back to doing interviews with journalists. But I don't need to hear you discuss the ins and outs of everyday existence every week on your podcast. That's all. Yeah. I don't want to know when Jason Kelsey and Travis Kelsey defecate and then shower. I don't want to know their routine for that.

[B]

But I bet they go more than once a day, though, Just based off looks.

[A]

Jason Kelsey, that guy's a four pooper. He's a four pooper right there.

[B]

No doubt about it.

[A]

I don't think you can be a center and not be a four pooper. What are we talking about? That'd be another good off season show. Nine. Nine. So, like, well, you know, again, but maybe that's too far for this audience, too. So we got to be careful. Keep a little air of mystery. All right, that's it for this version of what we do here. We certainly would invite you to join us on Substack. We're writing about the offensive line. We're talking about recruiting. We will have more leading into this Ohio State Rutgers game. We'll have our picks later on Thursday. Separate show for that. For our Ohio State Rutgers picks and preview. We'll have our national show on Friday, including a breakdown of usc, Oregon, including a breakdown of byu, Cincinnati, of Georgia Tech, Pitt. We'll have all the picks for that. Some games that really matter. And then we'll have a post game show on Saturday sometime after Ohio State, Rutgers. We're not exactly sure the timing on that, but we appreciate you guys hanging with us. It'll be here on the YouTube channel and it'll pop up in the podcast feeds. And again, come try Substack Bill and Doug OSU substack.com for now. He's Bill Landis, I'm Doug Lamoris, and that was the Bill and Doug Show.