← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Ohio State running back grades: How much did freshman Bo Jackson save the Buckeyes this season?
00:34:21
Bo Jackson and Isaiah West are the focus of this episode of The Bill and Doug Show as the Ohio State running backs room gets a deep dive. What happened to the initial plan of C.J. Donaldson and James Peoples?
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- [00:00]
Bill Landis
The College Football Playoff is everything. Toughness, growth, sacrifices.
- [00:05]
Maurice
Life's your focus. This is where I think everything you got all day today.
- [00:09]
Bill Landis
The attention to detail is like none other.
- [00:12]
Maurice
Be physical, be playing. We are the winners.
- [00:15]
Playoff Announcer
Tulane takes on Ole Miss, followed by James Madison in Oregon.
- [00:19]
Doug Maurice
It's time to bring it first round.
- [00:20]
Playoff Announcer
Coverage of the college football playoffs presented by allstate Saturday at 3:30 Eastern on TNT and HBO.
- [00:26]
Doug Maurice
Max, are you ready?
- [00:27]
Maurice
Let's get em.
- [00:31]
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- [01:36]
Doug Maurice
Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show. Doug Lay, Maurice and Bill Landis, running backs. Groups, positions, grades. That's what we're doing here. 10 straight shows on your YouTube feed, on your podcast feed covering every part of the Ohio State football team. Bill Landis, you have the lead on the running backs. Are we talking about Nate Roberts as a fullback or no?
- [01:58]
Bill Landis
No, I did not include him in my analysis of this position because I didn't want to get angry while I did it.
- [02:08]
Doug Maurice
Okay.
- [02:08]
Bill Landis
There's no offense to Nate Roberts offense and just to the people who decided he should play fullback.
- [02:14]
Doug Maurice
So then this is primarily A Bo Jackson, C.J. donaldson, Isaiah west conversation. If, if, if someone were to ask you right now, Bill, lend us today if they said Philly Billy, you're an Ohio State football expert. Describe the pecking order. Slash the, the specific jobs the guys do in the Ohio State running back room. Is there an RB1 and RB2 and RB3? Is there a third down back? Is there a short yardage back? Is There is there a, a pass catching back like what.
- [02:51]
Bill Landis
Bo Jackson is RB1 by himself. He is occasionally spelled on standard downs by Isaiah west and CJ Donaldson is the third down back and I would say like third down slash short yardage they actually didn't have. I guess they didn't put Donaldson out there. They never had like any of those like inside to five like low red zone runs that Donaldson typically gets against Indiana, but he was doing that against Michigan. He's done that all year so I would assume he's still in that role. But otherwise Donaldson only played on third down because he's their best pass protector. So they put him out there when they knew they had to throw the.
- [03:34]
Doug Maurice
Ball and, and when they put him out there in third down they, they can check it down to him. But it is more to pass protect, not to be a turbo in space. Let's get the ball to this guy on a swing pass as our primary play on third down.
- [03:51]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think he played 13 snaps against Indiana and he blocked on 12 and caught a check down on the other. Okay.
- [03:59]
Doug Maurice
What a long strange trip it has been Bill, and is to get to this point. And by the way, you did not mention James Peoples who played a total of five snaps against Michigan and Indiana. Lot of excitement after the hurdle and it was kind of a moment in time that did not really indicate anything.
- [04:20]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I thought maybe that could be a spark. He also had the. What game was it where the long touchdown run late. Was that Rutgers maybe? Yeah, he had like a 50 yard touchdown run late in that game. Fourth quarter. James Peoples is a maniac. If you're up, if you're up by three touchdowns in the fourth quarter and you get from the ball, watch out. But it just doesn't. Can't be replicated in the first three quarters of. Of games that matter unfortunately. So yeah, and he had one snap against Indiana and he got run over in pass protection and got Julian saying sack. So I, I don't know where that leaves him going into the playoff.
- [04:56]
Doug Maurice
Which also is like you can't play four backs and that's okay. It's just difficult to do that. But it is. He had his most carries of the season against Texas. James Peoples did, which is just kind of interesting to think about that. He had 10 carries against Texas and has not hit double digit and carries in any game since and has not carried the ball at all the last two games. A journey where it is now, where the running back it room is now and less about performance. But I'd say more about roles and usage, did they? Given the options, it's like, oh, well, what if they had Ezekiel Elliott? It's like, well, that's not an option. The options that are on the roster, are they in the right place going into the playoff?
- [05:48]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think, I think they've got it pretty clearly defined where it needs to be. I guess the, the one thing that is probably still up for some debate is when they do get into those situations where they're trying to run the ball in short yardage or in the low red zone, should that also just be Bo Jackson or are they going to keep giving it to C.J. donaldson? I. I guess I don't know that firmly because it's not like there was a time where it seemed like CJ Donaldson was getting better at that and then the Michigan game happened. So I don't know exactly where he stands on that. But yeah, I think there was a. There was a lot of sort of fact finding here in the middle of the season to figure out who they should roll with and who should be doing what. And I, I do think they've at least ironed that part out.
- [06:32]
Doug Maurice
Okay, who do you want to start with? I feel like the most logical thing is to go through these three primary guys who have room, who have roles in the room right now. So who do you want to start with?
- [06:44]
Bill Landis
Yeah, start with Bo, because I don't, I don't think we've talked enough about the fact that he's like a thousand yard rusher.
- [06:50]
Doug Maurice
Yes.
- [06:51]
Bill Landis
He's the fifth running back in program history to run for a thousand yards as a true freshman in some pretty good company with Robert Smith, Maurice Claret, J.K. doblins and Travion Henderson. And he's done it. Like, don't forget that he did not, he didn't play against Texas and like, was not really the main guy until kind of Big Ten play started. And even the first couple games of Big Ten play, it's like, we think it's Bo, but he hasn't like really been given, given the job yet. So he's, he's done this by like sort of being the top guy for kind of half the season. So I think he's been really good this year and like the numbers I think sort of underscore that. Right. Like, Ryan Day's been asking for yards of a contact all year and like, I don't think it's been consistent really with anybody. But like Bo's over four. That's kind of where you want to be I went back over the last couple of seasons. Like, basically since they took over in 2019, like, with the exception of 2023, their lead back has always been four yards or better after contact per rush. Oh, okay. And bows at 4.17 according to PFF, which actually has him fourth among those backs. The best was Henderson last year. Mayan Williams in 2022 is second. Henderson is a freshman and 21 is third. And Bo this year is fourth in terms of yards of the contact. Better than Trey Sermon in 20, better than J.K. dobbins in 2019. Although Dobbins had a much larger workload that year, so. Or not 19. 17. No, 19.
- [08:26]
Doug Maurice
Yeah, 19.
- [08:29]
Bill Landis
So he's, he's, he's been excellent, I think for a true freshman. He's the number, number two true freshman rusher in the country, number one in power four. So like, I don't, I don't really know what else you could ask from him other than like, I think he's got to continue to get the feel for like making safeties miss when he's one on one. But he's also gotten better. I think it's sort of like making guys missing the hole to turn, you know, Shorter runs into 3, 4 and 5 yards. It's, I think now he's at the point like, okay, that's, that's good. Can you turn a 12 yard run into a 50 yard touchdown kind of thing like that? That's the one kind of missing component with him still. But everything else I think is pretty good, including his receiving, which I actually didn't add up. But he's been a good receiver.
- [09:17]
Doug Maurice
Oh, yeah. Turbo checkdown. Yeah. Did you check how many thousand yard rushers there are in the country? Don't look if you didn't. Don't look. Okay.
- [09:29]
Bill Landis
I didn't add them all up.
- [09:31]
Doug Maurice
Make Philly Billy. Guess overall thousand yard rushers in FBS and thousand yard rushers then separately in the power four. How many?
- [09:42]
Bill Landis
I'll say like 31 and FBS and 18 and power four. Good.
- [09:51]
Doug Maurice
34 in FBS, 13 and power four. And Bo Jackson's one of them.
- [09:58]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [10:00]
Doug Maurice
I did it. Got by us, man. What?
- [10:02]
Bill Landis
Really did? Yeah, I mean, well, it happened because he eclipsed a thousand yards during a loss to Indiana. Same thing with Jeremiah Smith eclipsing a thousand yards of receiver in a loss. It's like, how much do you really want to celebrate it? Kind of thing. But yeah, it did get biased and I think, you know, people have really come to appreciate Boba. He's I think he's gone over a hundred in like five of his last seven games too. So he's, he's been pretty reliably like a 100 yarder close to it kind of back and I actually thought he ran pretty well against Indiana. There were some blocking miscues there and like he had probably two runs where he got tackled by the one guy who was there that could have been more explosive plays had that not happened. But I think he's really found a pretty good form here down the stretch and had a great game against Michigan. So I think, you know, they've, they've sort of given him more and more as the year has gone on and I think he's responded well more often than not and I think there's a lot of belief that he can be of their, their bell cow guy in.
- [11:01]
Doug Maurice
The postseason 600 yard rushing games. I think we were having a lot of conversations early about usage. How much is he getting the ball? How much are they going to figure this out? Are they going to get to the end of the season and somehow still think that it's a share of of RB1 between Bo Jackson and CJ Donaldson and what are they doing his here's his carries in Big Ten games starting with Washington. 17, 13, 10, 10, 13, 14, 15, 19, 22 against Michigan, 17 against Indiana, 22 for 117 against Michigan, 17 for 83 against Indiana. I think we kind of settled on this at a point in the middle of the season of they know who the number one running back is. They just don't need to or want to give A true freshman 20 carries a game in October because that's not the best way to get to the end of the year. But then they got here in the last two games and I think he's ready to be a 20 carry a game back in the playoff. And that's what he's been since the Michigan game. And I do think it was arduous to some degree to get to this point, but I think they've probably figured out what they were and what they had in the running back room by about week six. And then their plan was let's make sure we have the best, best version of Bo Jackson at the end of the year. And also he was dealing with a little bit of dinged up stuff, right?
- [12:27]
Bill Landis
He was, yeah. Mid season it was like an ankle or something. I was also just looking because this is an important part of his game too. It's not like he's, you know, he's on a thousand yard receiver, but yards from scrimmage per game he has 103, which is 11th in the Power 4.
- [12:48]
Doug Maurice
Matters. He's reliable that way. And, and I do think, I think he's very good on checkdowns that when you throw him a five yard pass, he turns and gets the top speed pretty quickly and gets north south.
- [13:00]
Bill Landis
Yeah, well, and Ryan Dice talked about this like he was, he was a high school receiver kind of until his last year of high school and then he got hurt when he was playing running back. He's actually not played a ton of running back. That's what makes like his production to this point like all the more exciting. It's like he's, he's still kind of figuring this out, but he, he maintained some of that receiver skill set. I actually wonder again, it's just like we're not football coaches but like can, can you have him like run more routes other than just a check down? Maybe. I don't know, maybe he can. Can you put him in the slot, get him matched up against a linebacker and have him run a slant and see what that looks like? I don't, I don't know. He's definitely got that to his game. He's got strong hands I think too. He's had a couple of those catches like kind of out in space. He's had to like go full extension and snare out of the backfield. So he with. We all know that everyone Ohio State plays is going to focus on Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate. That just leaves a lot sort of on the bone for, for Jackson or anybody who wants to just kind of like hang out underneath and get a ton of space. So I don't know that I'd be surprised even if we see like an uptick in his receiving production in the postseason.
- [14:12]
Modelo Announcer
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- [15:06]
Bill Landis
The College Football Playoff is everything. Toughness, growth Sacrifices.
- [15:11]
Maurice
Life's your focus. This is where i50 everything you got all damn day.
- [15:15]
Bill Landis
The attention to detail is like none other.
- [15:18]
Maurice
Be physical, be flat. We are the winner.
- [15:21]
Playoff Announcer
Jalane takes on Ole Miss, followed by James Madison in Oregon.
- [15:25]
Doug Maurice
It's time to bring it first coverage.
- [15:27]
Playoff Announcer
Of the College Football Playoff presented by allstate Saturday at 3:30 Eastern on TNT and HBO.
- [15:32]
Doug Maurice
Max, are you ready? Can you put this in the. The living budget of future stuff, too, to go through maybe like, the 22 spot to the 22 starters and do, like, who was a plan, who was a surprise and who was an accident or. Or something like that. Because in the end, they went 0 for 2 on their running back plan. Because is it fair to say the running back plan coming into the year with CJ Donaldson and James Peoples as your top two guys?
- [16:12]
Bill Landis
Definitely, yeah.
- [16:13]
Doug Maurice
And is it fair to call that 0 for 2?
- [16:17]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I would say so, yeah.
- [16:19]
Doug Maurice
And so here we are, and it's like, what are we gonna do? It's like, do you guys want to play two true freshmen? It's like, okay, and here are Bo Jackson and Isaiah West. And that is quite a thing. And so this is, you know, it's. It's credit to all involved. Credit primarily to Bo Jackson and then Isaiah west for being young and preparing their minds and bodies to contribute to a team trying to go back to back as national champions for the first time in Ohio State history. What a thing. By Bo Jackson and Isaiah West. Credit also to the strength staff and to Carlos Laughlin as position coach and to Ryan Day and everybody involved for having those guys ready. But also Carlos Laughlin and Ryan Day kind of blew it on what they thought they were going to do after having two tremendous running backs last year. And it's like, okay, what do you got now? And they did not do it. And then these other guys saved them. So they got saved here, bro. Right? They got saved by the young guys.
- [17:24]
Bill Landis
Yeah, they. They did. And I do think there was some anticipation that Bo would emerge at some point this season. It's a position where it's not. It's not crazy to expect a true freshman to contribute in a meaningful way. I. Whether that was, you know, an understanding of what the ceiling of James Peoples was or solely a reflection of what they thought of Jackson coming out of high school. I thought you did sense some buzz about him coming into the program, that he could be a guy who. Who kind of breaks out early, but I don't know that they envisioned him being their leading rusher as a true Freshman. So, yeah.
- [18:09]
Doug Maurice
Year end, bell, cow.
- [18:12]
Bill Landis
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think, yeah, he definitely saved them. And I think, I think Isaiah west probably did a little bit too. Like what. West is a little more comparable to People's and Donaldson in terms of production, but like, on a yard, like yards per carry, he's significantly better than Donaldson. But, but some of that is because Donaldson only gets the ball inside the five.
- [18:35]
Doug Maurice
Yeah.
- [18:36]
Bill Landis
So I think, like, though, that that trio is more or less the same, I think. But Jackson definitely saved them.
- [18:44]
Doug Maurice
Yeah. Congrats to Bo Jackson. My goodness, what a, what a thing. All right, you want to do Donaldson or West next?
- [18:54]
Bill Landis
We can do Donaldson. All right, look, we've talked about him a lot, but.
- [19:00]
Doug Maurice
171 carries for 798 yards in 20, 23 at West Virginia. 163 carries for 700 yards in 202489 carries for 330 yards this year at Ohio State. I just, it's just, it, it's, it's, it's not to criticize the, the, the, the player specifically, but it's a misidentification. And I think Ohio State and a lot of people analyzing it going into the year were just fooling themselves on this, and I just don't. Not every Portal guy is Quinton Judkins and, and the Portal can be difficult, but as we go into the off season and think about Ohio State in the. Always going to be some, some great additions and spectacular hits, but Ethan on CJ Donaldson is quite a thing. And they thought they were getting, I think, a lead back and a left tackle, and they didn't get either. And so we just have to be realistic about that as we, with every Portal consideration we have for Ohio State from now on, we have to make sure we factor this kind of stuff in.
- [20:01]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I, I, I think you and I maybe try to alert people to that at least a little bit when they got him because, like, he, he was dynamic as a freshman and then got hurt. And this, like, was never the same player again. His yards per carry have gone down every year. His yards after contact have gone down every year, including his years at West Virginia. And then like, he comes to Ohio State and they take £20 off of them, which is like, good, I guess, if you're gonna run differently. But I don't know that he ran any differently. And then at, when he's not 240, he's like, still trying to run through people, and it's just not nearly as effective as it was at West Virginia. So you know, I. I still think he has something to offer them in short yardage as potentially like, a blocking back. Like, if you want to talk about the fullback stuff I know we made a joke about at the start of this, I'd much rather see CJ Donaldson do that stuff than Nate Roberts. It's not a guarantee it'd be better, but I think it would stand a chance to, because you have to have a running back skill set to do that well. And see, C.J. donaldson at least has that. And he's got some size to him still, even if he did lose quite a bit of weight from what he played out at West Virginia. But, yeah, I think, like. Like, definitely outsized expectations for him. And I think if you bothered to just, like, sort of pay attention to his trajectory at West Virginia, that probably would have cooled those expectations somewhat significantly. But even that being said, I still think they've not gotten nearly what they. What would have been a reasonable expectation out of C.J. donaldson, either. He just does not. Unless he's running insure yardage. He has not given them a lot, and he. And he is by far the worst at making guys miss and creating stuff after contact, which is, like, kind of remarkable given his size compared to the rest of the room.
- [21:51]
Doug Maurice
Do you think they could put £20 on CJ Donaldson by new Year's and turn him into a playoff fullback?
- [21:58]
Bill Landis
There are multiple raising canes locations around the Columbus area that I think could help get that done. Yeah, yeah.
- [22:04]
Doug Maurice
Operation Playoff Fullback. Yeah, they just, like a big sign in the. In the Woody is like, feed CJ and it's like one of those. It's not like, feed Zeke, where it's like, give me the ball. It's like to literally feed CJ Every.
- [22:17]
Bill Landis
Time you see him. Give him a snack.
- [22:18]
Doug Maurice
Yeah, yeah. Here's the Snickers. And it's just. I mean, it's how football works. Even the best programs don't hit on every player. But it's just like, we also can't pretend that the team. A program like Ohio State hits on every player. So the difference, I honestly do think. Right. The main difference between a program like Ohio State and maybe like, a good but not great program is when you put yourself out on a limb for something like this, you can miss and recover. And that Bo Jackson and Austin Seraveld as making up for misses here with. With what they've done. I think at other schools, if you go out on a limb for a guy and it doesn't work, you probably don't have A plan B that is going to look like a plan A. And Austin Seraveld at left tackle and bo Jackson as RB1 are Plan B's that absolutely have played like Plan A's. And that is, that's what being Ohio State is all about. But I think it's possible that even sometimes the greatest programs can get, get hurt there. So it's like everyone learn. People are still learning in the portal. So I, I don't know.
- [23:33]
Bill Landis
I think that's why Ohio State wants to, wants to be more of a high school recruiting team. Right. Because you want to be able to and not, not have all of your eggs in that. What the particular basket. Like it didn't happen with Oregon this year. Right. They thought they were getting a RB1 and Makai Hughes and he never saw the field. But they had guys that they had recruited and developed out of high school who were ready to take over. And it's like you want to have those contingency plans that just don't exist if you're only ever bringing in guys out of the portal.
- [24:00]
Doug Maurice
Yeah, Oregon might have the best running attack in the playoff and their RB1 didn't play a snap. But like Makai Hughes was like arguably the biggest running back get in the portal. Right. Maybe just at Michigan and Makai.
- [24:16]
Bill Landis
I think, yeah, I think Haynes was first and Hughes was second. Yeah.
- [24:19]
Doug Maurice
But then also it's like, oh, then Michigan got Justice. Haynes is like, what happened there? It's like he was great and then when he got hurt, they missed him. So like, I mean it does. It's just, it's. It's hard because the portal gets so much attention. But the portal is not automatically a magical solution to all of your problems. And Ohio State knows that. I think mostly I'm talking to us, like all of us out here. Just don't automatically assume that the portal is the magical solution to everything because. But then at a place like Ohio State, there often is just a high school guy that you've been developing who's actually sitting there ready to help solve problems also. So. Okay.
- [25:03]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I mean there were good. I actually didn't know Ahmad Hardy is a transfer. I didn't know that. Ulm to Missouri.
- [25:11]
Doug Maurice
Oh, I know that.
- [25:12]
Bill Landis
I didn't know that.
- [25:13]
Doug Maurice
All American congrats to him.
- [25:17]
Bill Landis
So like you can find them for sure. But yeah, Hardy was the sixth ranked running back in the portal. Donaldson was 10th. It doesn't look like a lot of the top 10 guy like Haynes hit, Hardy hit. But way Sean Parker was good at Utah, but they didn't all hit.
- [25:37]
Doug Maurice
Yeah.
- [25:38]
Bill Landis
Okay.
- [25:39]
Doug Maurice
All right. And what do you think about Isaiah West? So that's, let's, let's go to your Philly fella.
- [25:45]
Bill Landis
Yeah, well, he's from New Jersey, unfortunately, so we, doc, we dock points there for that. Yeah, he, I like him. He's, he's pretty physical. Like, he, he's actually the guy I wouldn't mind see getting more short yardage. Like, I think, I think he, he runs really hard. I think he kind of like bounces. He like bounces off of. He just runs with like a, like. And he, he like understands this about himself. Like, he's not gonna shake three guys out of their shoes and run for 70 yards. He's going to run as hard as he can for three.
- [26:21]
Doug Maurice
Yeah.
- [26:22]
Bill Landis
That he can run through you and turn that three into seven, which, like, I appreciate about him. So like, I, I just, there's, there's, there's some velocity to the way that he runs that I, like, enjoy watching. So I, I, I wonder. And he's like 210 pounds. Like, he's not, he's not a small running back. I, I think maybe he could give them a little something in short yardage too, if they wanted to give him those opportunities. I like him as a compliment to, to Jackson. I, he and People's like, at least statistically are, are similar. Actually. People's is a little better in some areas, but I, I don't know. There's something about West. It just feels a little more consistent and reliable. Yeah, some people, some of people's like, averages are helped by him, you know, scoring a couple long garbage time touchdowns. I think like sort of in the throes of the game, west has looked a little more, more reliable than People's has. So I like, I like Wes as a guy that like, you know, maybe gets five or six carries a game to spell Bo Jackson. And I don't, I don't think it'd be unreasonable to see if he could be your short yardage guy and maybe be a little more efficient at it than C.J. donaldson has been.
- [27:29]
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- [28:00]
Bill Landis
Toughness, roles, sacrifices.
- [28:03]
Maurice
Is this where I 50 everything you got all damn day?
- [28:06]
Bill Landis
The attention to detail is like none other.
- [28:09]
Maurice
Be physical. Keep playing. We are the winner.
- [28:12]
Playoff Announcer
Chilene takes on Ole Miss, followed by James Madison in Oregon.
- [28:16]
Doug Maurice
It's time to bring it first round.
- [28:17]
Playoff Announcer
Coverage of the college football playoffs presented by allstate Saturday at 3:30 Eastern on TNT and HBO.
- [28:23]
Doug Maurice
Max, are you ready?
- [28:24]
Maurice
Let's go.
- [28:31]
Bill Landis
And.
- [28:31]
Doug Maurice
And again like his, his just like he came on in the second half of the year. They didn't use him in the first half of the year. And then 9 for 55 against Wisconsin, 9 for 60 against Purdue, 8 for 61 against UCLA, 8 for 48 against Rutgers, 6 for 20 against Michigan. Only three carries for 4 yards against Indiana. But they're just short in rotations when you get to this stuff. But he just, I thought from the minute he got on the field he pop pads in a way that it felt early on part of the issue with Peoples and Donaldson was like they just were trying to, they, they weren't running. They weren't assertive with the way they ran. Right. And that, yeah, it felt like they were just for whatever reason, maybe they're trying to be too perfect or I, I don't know what. And then they just put in the freshman and then freshmen were like, okay, I don't know, just run straight ahead as hard as you can. And I think it changed the, the vibe in the room for everybody involved. I think James Peoples has acknowledged that. So like that. I think there's something about those guys and I do, I think Isaiah west and it's again, you don't want to get out over your skis. And it's like, oh, James Peoples like what he showed as a freshman, they can rely on him in year two. And it didn't. I don't want to be here in a year being like, ah, man, I was. I don't know why Ohio State thought Isaiah west could be Corb1 like but he. Maybe he is like Bo Jackson is at the moment like a man a few words and Isaiah west is a man of, of many wor. And I think like he is. I like them. He's talking about like Bo and Isaiah seem like they're good friends. Bo and Zay. Isaiah West. Isaiah west actually gives me a little bit of like a Brandon Ennis vibe that I think he could be like a just a guy who was really influential in the fabric of the program. But maybe isn't like the best player on the field, but you're glad he's on the team and he does play. And I just think maybe Isaiah west could be RB2 for four years.
- [30:23]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I kind of think that too. Yeah.
- [30:26]
Doug Maurice
Which is they won an RB2 and an RB2 at Ohio State and at most good programs now has a real role. So he's not your best guy, but he matters, he plays, he's good. But he also is a little bit of your heartbeat. And I, I, he feels like that kind of guy. Kind of like you, Philly, Billy.
- [30:46]
Bill Landis
I think. And he's not, I believe he was hurt too and like in his senior, in his high school senior season and like didn't do spring ball. So I like, I view Jackson and Wes both as guys who can make pretty big jumps like already already look good now, but could make significant jumps. Like I, I don't know, I don't know how far apart the ceilings. Like I, I would imagine Jackson's ceiling is probably a decent amount higher than Wes, but I don't think, I think west ceiling is like, is higher than like a replacement level running back too. Like I do. I think, I think that that's could be a pretty solid tandem for the next, next couple of years, even if it's, it's defined as Jackson is RB1 and west is RB2. Okay.
- [31:34]
Doug Maurice
So what do you think the future of this position is? What do you think this looks like in 26 and 27?
- [31:41]
Bill Landis
I, I think it's like similar to the receiver conversation. Unless there's just like a guy who's really good who emerges as an opportunity. I, I think they might move forward with what they have now. I guess the question with that is like, if two current true freshmen have ascended to the top of the room, then what happens to the guys behind them? So you may have to go into the portal to bring in like some, some running back depth. They're bringing in one high school guy we know for sure in favor of key. They could be bringing in another with legend Bay. We have to see how, how all that kind of shakes out that the kind of unfortunate situation. But like, I don't know, let this be like Frank about it like the James Peoples and Sam Dixon stick around. If there's two, two guys who are younger than them already ahead of them in the pecking order, I don't think anybody would be surprised if the answer to that was no. So then you probably do have to go to the portal to at least bring like another body in. But I don't know that Ohio State's going to be out like portal shopping for a top tier running back this off season. I think they feel pretty good about what they have.
- [32:42]
Doug Maurice
They probably don't have to go get a C.J. donaldson.
- [32:46]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I don't think so.
- [32:48]
Doug Maurice
Because they had to get, I mean it's what, just the way the situation's worked out with only James Peoples coming back and then true freshmen. You had to go get somebody in the portal this year that, that you, you thought could play. So you know that that's more a result of like previous recruiting and guys who left and like that kind of thing than anything else. So like the idea of like, oh man, what did they do? Thing didn't work out the way they expected. Like, well, they had to do it. They were kind of backed into a corner with that a little bit because you could have not come, come into this season be like James Peoples and one of the young guys. It's like that's not a plan at running back for a national championship contender. So it turns out that the young guys were ready. But you couldn't have not have assumed that.
- [33:31]
Bill Landis
The other sort of dynamic at play there is the highest ranked running back in the class last year was Turbo Rogers.
- [33:38]
Doug Maurice
Yep.
- [33:38]
Bill Landis
He just hasn't, he hasn't been healthy. Like I, I don't know really like what he is, how they view him. He's been on the availability report for most of the year, meaning like he's just not been able to play. So we've not talked about him at all. Maybe that's a guy we can try to get a little more information about when we have the, the full team media days when we get to Dallas. But like that's, that's another like kind of wild card in the entire situation. But like he was looking at the composite. He was a top hundred player.
- [34:03]
Doug Maurice
Yeah.
- [34:03]
Bill Landis
In the composite rankings coming out of Alabama. So he could be a factor as well next year.
- [34:09]
Doug Maurice
Yeah. And that's just one of those. It's like, oh, you have three running backs in the class. Are they all going to stay and share the load equally? A third. A third. A third their entire career. It's like, no, that's not how that's going to work out.
- [34:18]
Bill Landis
Probably.
- [34:18]
Doug Maurice
So like you just, you know, it's great. You have options. 2 out of 3 hit already and the, the one who didn't because he's hurt. Okay. Like, that's, Congratulations. Like, great job. Carlos Lachlan. Great job. Ohio State with the guys you identified in this class. So.
- [34:33]
Bill Landis
Okay, that's probably a good like it's worth maybe like saying that a little more like Carlos Lock and I think did a pretty good job with the high school class, right?
- [34:42]
Doug Maurice
Like yes.
- [34:43]
Bill Landis
And yeah.
- [34:45]
Doug Maurice
Recruiting and development to get, then to get these two guys ready, but also to identify them.
- [34:50]
Bill Landis
Yeah. Which is like, you know how like Tony offered running some really good guys, but then had some cycles too where it's like you doesn't feel like you have a plan here. I think, I think Lachlan did a pretty good job with like kind of like his first full class. And if his second class is Favor Aki and Legend Bay, like that's a pretty good follow up class too.
- [35:11]
Doug Maurice
Yeah. No, and that is, I just. Even at a place like Ohio State, it's just hard to. It's hard to get any first year college kid ready to do something. And Carlos Lachlan got two of them ready and, and identified two guys who had the, the skill and the gumption and the personality like to be prepared to play college football at the highest level as true freshman.
- [35:35]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [35:36]
Doug Maurice
What do you think the subscribers? 1 to 101 is bad. 100 is great. What do you think the subscriber vote was for grading the running back room?
- [35:45]
GoFundMe Announcer
80.
- [35:46]
Doug Maurice
74.
- [35:48]
Bill Landis
I've been off on these. Okay.
- [35:54]
Doug Maurice
I always write my thing down and then I get influenced by whatever you say. Are you gonna be mad if I say 80?
- [36:02]
Bill Landis
No.
- [36:03]
Doug Maurice
No. That's why I make you guess. It's like, guess what? The subscribers. Well, coincidentally, Bill, your guess is exactly what I said. I had 78, but then it's like he's one of 30.
- [36:14]
Bill Landis
I had 78.
- [36:16]
Doug Maurice
78. But now the idea that Bo Jackson is one of 13 power conference running backs with a thousand yards and that Carlos Lachlan got two true freshmen ready to contribute. And C.J. donaldson is a nice veteran presence in the room even if he didn't work out as like a Corb one. And I think they got to the point where this is a, I think a definitely functional running back room for the playoff. This team is not going into the playoff being like, I don't know about this room. I think they feel pretty good about it. So I'm gonna give him an 80.
- [36:48]
Bill Landis
Okay. Yeah, I'm at 78. And a lot of that is. Is Bo. Like he deserves all the credit in the world. I think like as a room they're probably not quite as dynamic as they. As they should be for an Ohio State running back room. And I think I think a lot of that can be explained by the fact that they're just young. But the, the, the turning, turning efficient runs into explosive runs like is still an ongoing process. And yeah, I, I definitely took, took some points off the board because of that. They're like the sports info solutions has a percentage broken tackles, broken tackles plus missed tackles forced per attempt. Ohio State is 89th in the country. So like that's, they want to be, they want to be better than that obviously. So I think like that's it. That's the most obvious area for improvement, but it's still been pretty good like there. I think there was a time like mid season where we were unsure of what exactly this would look like. And I think because of Bo Jackson's emergence, I think you can feel pretty good about the position group going into the playoff.
- [37:51]
Doug Maurice
I agree. All right, that's our running back breakdown. We'll continue to do this. We appreciate you guys rolling with us and letting us hang out with you and talk some football. Go see our substack Bill and Doug osu.substack.com for now, he's Bill Landis on Douglas Maurice and that was the Bill and Doug show.
- [38:14]
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- [38:45]
Bill Landis
Toughness, growth, sacrifices.
- [38:48]
Maurice
This is where I 50 everything you got all that day.
- [38:51]
Bill Landis
The attention to detail is like none other.
- [38:57]
Playoff Announcer
Takes on Ole Miss followed by James Madison in order Oregon.
- [39:00]
Doug Maurice
It's time to bring it first round.
- [39:02]
Playoff Announcer
Coverage of the college football playoffs presented by allstate Saturday at 3:30 Eastern on TNT and HBO.
- [39:07]
Doug Maurice
Max, are you ready?
- [39:09]
Maurice
Let's go.