Episode Summary:

The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Episode: Ohio State safeties grades: Is Caleb Downs one of the Buckeyes' two best safeties of all-time?
Date: December 14, 2025
Hosts: Doug Lesmerises & Bill Landis (Blue Wire)

Main Theme

This episode dives deep into the Ohio State Buckeyes’ safety group with particular focus on Caleb Downs and Jaylen McClain. Doug and Bill explore whether Downs already ranks among the greatest safeties in program history and provide a thorough evaluation of the present and future of the position, player by player—complete with grades, historical context, and playful banter.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Caleb Downs: All-Time Great?

[02:31–07:56]

• Doug immediately poses the big question: “If you were doing an all time Ohio State team, is Caleb Downs on your starting defense at safety?”
• Debate over who the two best OSU safeties are: Downs, Jack Tatum, Mike Doss, Malik Hooker all in the discussion.
  • Bill: “I think Caleb Downs is in the conversation... he’s going to be a multi time all-American. So I think you can very easily make the argument for him.” (03:57)
  • Doug: “You have to have Tatum and so then I think it’s a Doss Downs war... They were all arguably the best player, most important player, most defining player on those championship teams. Remarkable.” (04:17–06:29)

2. How Caleb Downs Has Been Used in 2024

[07:56–09:43]

• Doug asks Bill about Downs’ on-field deployment this year.
  • Bill lists Downs’ diverse usage: “34 on the defensive line... 214 in the box, 226 at free safety, 134 in the slot, and nine at corner.” (08:36)
  • Patricia and Knowles have capitalized on Downs’ versatility, confusing offenses and maximizing his impact.
• Downs’ unflashy excellence: Not a head-hunting playmaker but a model of sound, versatile football.

3. Downs’ 2024 Performance: Better, Worse, or the Same?

[09:43–10:57]

• Bill: “I would say equal at the very least... you have to move beyond what the box score tells you and think about how integral he is.” (09:54)
• Doug and Bill agree Downs’ contribution is sometimes hidden but vital, and that his discipline and consistency elevate the whole defense.

4. Appreciating Jaylen McClain

[10:57–15:53]

• Doug highlights McClain’s massive snap count: “He leads this team of defensive snaps by PFF. 645 snaps this year. Jermaine Matthews, 634. Caleb down 619.” (12:37)
• McClain: Steady, under-the-radar, and penalty-free. Vital to the defense’s success given OSU’s lack of safety depth.
  • Bill: “He’s not been penalized. He’s a clean player... for him to step up with really not much in the way of experience coming off of last year to play as well as he has has been really impressive.” (14:14)
• He’s the “Caleb Downs Jr.”, a three-year starter in the making, and a probable future captain for the Buckeyes.

5. Historical Review: Ohio State Safeties in the Playoff Era

[17:25–23:39]

• Fun, rapid-fire rundown of every OSU safety group since 2014.
  • High points: Tyvis Powell & Vonn Bell (2014–15), Hooker & Damon Webb (2016), Jordan Fuller & various.
  • “Remember when we were in the single high safety era, then all of a sudden we were in a safety-driven defense and our heads were spinning, bro.” (17:35)
• Entertaining recollections of odd positional designations like the “Bullet” and perennial safety questions.

6. Current Group vs. Recent History

[23:39–25:18]

• Doug and Bill agree the Downs–Ransom safety pairing in 2023 was probably the best at OSU since Powell & Bell.
• The current group gets slightly lower marks only due to McClain being a first-year starter vs. Ransom’s experience in 2023.

7. Looking Ahead: Future of the OSU Safety Room

[25:18–26:51]

• With Downs off to the NFL in 2025, McClain and likely Fahim Delane take over.
• Malik Hartford and Leroy Roker are “wildcards”; freshman Blaine Bradford could see early snaps.
  • Bill: “Even like Roker is a guy that was sort of like under the radar who I think they really like... I think he could be involved too, maybe some rotation next year.” (25:58)
• "No one's Caleb Downs, but I think they could be in a decent spot next year." (26:51)

8. Position Group Grades: Safety

[27:03–32:31]

• Substack poll: 93/100 from fans.
• Bill and Doug each land at 92 and 92.5 respectively—Downs gets a perfect 100, McClain a strong 84–90.
  • Doug: “If you’re up in the 90s, it’s like you’re as practically as good as it gets. And I do think there’s a little room to grow there.” (31:08)
• Final group average: 93/100.
• Comparison: Special Teams previously got a 49.

9. Caleb Downs' Accolades

[29:35–30:04]

• Downs wins the Jim Thorpe Award (nation's best DB).
• Will likely be OSU’s fifth multi-time unanimous All-American.
  • Bill: "I think he's going to be like, the program's like fifth multi time unanimous All American." (29:35)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Caleb Downs’ All-Time Status:
  “Caleb Downs is Ohio State legend. Like, how about that?” — Doug Lesmerises (30:10)

• Position Group Grading Philosophy:
  “If you’re up in the 90s, it’s like you’re as practically as good as it gets... Caleb Downs isn’t 100. Caleb Downs [is] like 111 out of 100.” — Doug (31:13) “100 for Caleb and 85 for [McClain].” — Bill (32:07)

• On the "Bullet" Position:
  “Do you know anybody at the Athletic who puts [Connections] together over there who’s putting together the Athletic game?... One of them would be the Bullet and the answer would be things that are dead.” — Doug (18:31–18:38)

Timestamps of Key Segments

• 02:31–07:56: Is Caleb Downs an all-time great? All-time OSU safety debate.
• 07:56–09:43: How Downs is used, and impact of the new scheme.
• 09:43–10:57: Comparing Downs' 2024 play to last year.
• 10:57–15:53: Jaylen McClain appreciation and safety depth concerns.
• 17:25–23:39: Ohio State safety history (2014–2024) walk-through.
• 25:18–26:51: The future safety group—projecting 2025 starters.
• 27:03–32:31: Grading the safety unit; accolades for Downs.

Tone & Style of the Episode

Bill and Doug maintain their signature blend of informed analysis and laid-back, playful banter. The discussion is candid and fan-centric, often poking fun at OSU’s sometimes convoluted defensive scheme nomenclature. The episode is steeped in both respect for Buckeye traditions and an analytical commitment to evaluating modern player impact—with plenty of laughs and nostalgia.

Final Takeaway

Doug and Bill argue that Caleb Downs has already earned a place in the pantheon of Ohio State safeties, with his blend of consistency, versatility, and high acclaim (Thorpe Award, All-American status). Jaylen McClain is praised for his reliability and the promise of future stardom. The safety unit earns an elite 93 grade, making it one of the strong points of another championship-level Buckeye team—while the hosts keep it real about both history and the future.