Ohio State safeties grades: Is Caleb Downs one of the Buckeyes' two best safeties of all-time?

Summary

Episode Summary:

The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Episode: Ohio State safeties grades: Is Caleb Downs one of the Buckeyes' two best safeties of all-time?
Date: December 14, 2025
Hosts: Doug Lesmerises & Bill Landis (Blue Wire)

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Main Theme

This episode dives deep into the Ohio State Buckeyes’ safety group with particular focus on Caleb Downs and Jaylen McClain. Doug and Bill explore whether Downs already ranks among the greatest safeties in program history and provide a thorough evaluation of the present and future of the position, player by player—complete with grades, historical context, and playful banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Caleb Downs: All-Time Great?

[02:31–07:56]

• Doug immediately poses the big question: “If you were doing an all time Ohio State team, is Caleb Downs on your starting defense at safety?”
• Debate over who the two best OSU safeties are: Downs, Jack Tatum, Mike Doss, Malik Hooker all in the discussion.
  • Bill: “I think Caleb Downs is in the conversation... he’s going to be a multi time all-American. So I think you can very easily make the argument for him.” (03:57)
  • Doug: “You have to have Tatum and so then I think it’s a Doss Downs war... They were all arguably the best player, most important player, most defining player on those championship teams. Remarkable.” (04:17–06:29)

2. How Caleb Downs Has Been Used in 2024

[07:56–09:43]

• Doug asks Bill about Downs’ on-field deployment this year.
  • Bill lists Downs’ diverse usage: “34 on the defensive line... 214 in the box, 226 at free safety, 134 in the slot, and nine at corner.” (08:36)
  • Patricia and Knowles have capitalized on Downs’ versatility, confusing offenses and maximizing his impact.
• Downs’ unflashy excellence: Not a head-hunting playmaker but a model of sound, versatile football.

3. Downs’ 2024 Performance: Better, Worse, or the Same?

[09:43–10:57]

• Bill: “I would say equal at the very least... you have to move beyond what the box score tells you and think about how integral he is.” (09:54)
• Doug and Bill agree Downs’ contribution is sometimes hidden but vital, and that his discipline and consistency elevate the whole defense.

4. Appreciating Jaylen McClain

[10:57–15:53]

• Doug highlights McClain’s massive snap count: “He leads this team of defensive snaps by PFF. 645 snaps this year. Jermaine Matthews, 634. Caleb down 619.” (12:37)
• McClain: Steady, under-the-radar, and penalty-free. Vital to the defense’s success given OSU’s lack of safety depth.
  • Bill: “He’s not been penalized. He’s a clean player... for him to step up with really not much in the way of experience coming off of last year to play as well as he has has been really impressive.” (14:14)
• He’s the “Caleb Downs Jr.”, a three-year starter in the making, and a probable future captain for the Buckeyes.

5. Historical Review: Ohio State Safeties in the Playoff Era

[17:25–23:39]

• Fun, rapid-fire rundown of every OSU safety group since 2014.
  • High points: Tyvis Powell & Vonn Bell (2014–15), Hooker & Damon Webb (2016), Jordan Fuller & various.
  • “Remember when we were in the single high safety era, then all of a sudden we were in a safety-driven defense and our heads were spinning, bro.” (17:35)
• Entertaining recollections of odd positional designations like the “Bullet” and perennial safety questions.

6. Current Group vs. Recent History

[23:39–25:18]

• Doug and Bill agree the Downs–Ransom safety pairing in 2023 was probably the best at OSU since Powell & Bell.
• The current group gets slightly lower marks only due to McClain being a first-year starter vs. Ransom’s experience in 2023.

7. Looking Ahead: Future of the OSU Safety Room

[25:18–26:51]

• With Downs off to the NFL in 2025, McClain and likely Fahim Delane take over.
• Malik Hartford and Leroy Roker are “wildcards”; freshman Blaine Bradford could see early snaps.
  • Bill: “Even like Roker is a guy that was sort of like under the radar who I think they really like... I think he could be involved too, maybe some rotation next year.” (25:58)
• "No one's Caleb Downs, but I think they could be in a decent spot next year." (26:51)

8. Position Group Grades: Safety

[27:03–32:31]

• Substack poll: 93/100 from fans.
• Bill and Doug each land at 92 and 92.5 respectively—Downs gets a perfect 100, McClain a strong 84–90.
  • Doug: “If you’re up in the 90s, it’s like you’re as practically as good as it gets. And I do think there’s a little room to grow there.” (31:08)
• Final group average: 93/100.
• Comparison: Special Teams previously got a 49.

9. Caleb Downs' Accolades

[29:35–30:04]

• Downs wins the Jim Thorpe Award (nation's best DB).
• Will likely be OSU’s fifth multi-time unanimous All-American.
  • Bill: "I think he's going to be like, the program's like fifth multi time unanimous All American." (29:35)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Caleb Downs’ All-Time Status:
  “Caleb Downs is Ohio State legend. Like, how about that?” — Doug Lesmerises (30:10)

• Position Group Grading Philosophy:
  “If you’re up in the 90s, it’s like you’re as practically as good as it gets... Caleb Downs isn’t 100. Caleb Downs [is] like 111 out of 100.” — Doug (31:13) “100 for Caleb and 85 for [McClain].” — Bill (32:07)

• On the "Bullet" Position:
  “Do you know anybody at the Athletic who puts [Connections] together over there who’s putting together the Athletic game?... One of them would be the Bullet and the answer would be things that are dead.” — Doug (18:31–18:38)

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• 02:31–07:56: Is Caleb Downs an all-time great? All-time OSU safety debate.
• 07:56–09:43: How Downs is used, and impact of the new scheme.
• 09:43–10:57: Comparing Downs' 2024 play to last year.
• 10:57–15:53: Jaylen McClain appreciation and safety depth concerns.
• 17:25–23:39: Ohio State safety history (2014–2024) walk-through.
• 25:18–26:51: The future safety group—projecting 2025 starters.
• 27:03–32:31: Grading the safety unit; accolades for Downs.

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Tone & Style of the Episode

Bill and Doug maintain their signature blend of informed analysis and laid-back, playful banter. The discussion is candid and fan-centric, often poking fun at OSU’s sometimes convoluted defensive scheme nomenclature. The episode is steeped in both respect for Buckeye traditions and an analytical commitment to evaluating modern player impact—with plenty of laughs and nostalgia.

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Final Takeaway

Doug and Bill argue that Caleb Downs has already earned a place in the pantheon of Ohio State safeties, with his blend of consistency, versatility, and high acclaim (Thorpe Award, All-American status). Jaylen McClain is praised for his reliability and the promise of future stardom. The safety unit earns an elite 93 grade, making it one of the strong points of another championship-level Buckeye team—while the hosts keep it real about both history and the future.

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Transcript

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[Doug Lee Maurice]

Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show Positional Group Breakdown Safety Today Bill Landis Talking about Jaylen McLean and Caleb Downs and it can be a little confusing at times. There are times where you Ohio State sort of calls the slot guy a corner. Sometimes they call him a third safety. At the moment when we talk about safeties, we're talking about two positions. Downs in McLean, right?

[Bill Landis]

Yes. Although I will say when Lorenzo Styles is asked to play more of a safety spot than he is a corner spot, he's played well too. But yeah, let's, let's talk about Downs and McLean for the most part.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

Yeah, I think that's just like people know where we are. Can I start big picture with you? If you were doing an all time Ohio State team, is Caleb Downs on your starting defense at safety And I would say there are two safety spots and let me lay out, I think it's probably a three man race for.

[Bill Landis]

Two spots between Caleb Downs, Jack Tatum.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

Emily Cooker, I would say Mike Doss instead of Malik. Mike Toss, three time all American, Jack Tatum, two time all American, Caleb Downs, two time all American. And then like the individual Excellence of the 2016 Malik Hooker season that we really only got to see once. Yeah, I think those are the four in the discussion. And I think on longevity, Hooker probably falls off. Although like if you're just like we're trying to beat the aliens and we want to have a team and it's like, well, we want a hard hitter and then we want a sideline to sideline Roamer and you're telling me you want a pair of right somebody. I want Hooker back there covering the earth. I think you could argue that, but I don't know if that's exactly what we're doing here. But anyway, Caleb Downs has entered the discussion. At the very least.

[Bill Landis]

He has. Yeah. I mean I don't, I don't really know how to answer that question because like I didn't cover Mike Dawson. Like I've, I've watched like Jack Tatum highlights.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

Right? Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

So I don't know like going by like awards, I, I think Caleb Downs is in the conversation. Like he's going to be a multi time all American. He is a multi time all American. So I don't know, like maybe. I know it's hard for me to answer that question. I would, I would say like I think you can very easily make the argument for him.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

Yeah. Yeah. So we are opening the floor to you guys to like just go yell at your friends about it because I think you have to have Tatum and so then I think it's a dos Downs war. And I don't know, look at this fluffy pillow that I have. I don't know how you decide. We are Downs.

[Bill Landis]

So like in the it for the, for transparency. Like we're recording this before they announced the Thorpe Award for which Caleb Downs is a finalist. Like we don't know if he, if he won or not, but if he did, he's the program's third for winner ever. So like that probably wouldn't factor into I think. Right.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

With Malcolm Jenkins and Antoine Winfield. Right. So yeah, that matters. A Downs dos. And they're both national champion. Like they're all three national champions. They're all primary figures on national championship teams. I think you could argue that they are not only primary but defining but like in the discussion for the most important figures on national championship teams that if you're saying super softs and you're saying name a super soft, give me a super soft. You might go Tatum first. If you're saying name the 2002 national championship team. I know Maurice Claret, but you might name Dos because Dos got up there and said I'm coming back to school and came back and was a three time all American and they won the national championship.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

And you and I have been doing the top 22 Buckeyes all year and we're going to do it again and we think next week and for all the Jeremiah Smith and all the Arvell Reese and all the Carnell tight at Tate and all the Julian Sam, like we've been putting Caleb Downs at the top of the list a lot. So like think about that. Think about. It's like, oh well was he. It's like was it, was he a champ? They were all champions and they were all arguably the best player, most important player, most defining player on those championship teams. Remarkable.

[Bill Landis]

He's a positional Mount Rushmore guy. Right. I think that much is true. I think I, I would imagine there because. Because you can. What's a Caleb Downs Ohio State highlight package look like? I don't know, like it's a lot of him like filling the B gap in a really sound way. Right. It's not like I get it. I get. It's not like he's not knocking guys heads off all the time and he doesn't have a ton of ball production in coverage. I think we all understand that. And like I, I guess the thing that I would say to people, like if that is any kind of impediment to like appreciating Caleb Downs for, for being as great as he is, is like he was up for the Nidagursky and Thorpe awards this year as a guy like who didn't stuff the stat sheet because that is how highly regarded college football. So he's a special player, man. He can do a lot.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

Yeah. So pretty good. So that helped. Boy, does that help the safety room when one of the two guys were divi. We're trying to figure out if he's one of the greatest Buckeyes ever. Now I'm getting in dangerous territory. We might have to do it like where's Caleb Downs in all time Buckeyes? Right. Because you end up doing like consensus all Americans and stuff and like individual award winners and were you part of a championship team and that kind of Thing, but, man, the guy checks a lot of boxes. And if he had had the freshman year at Ohio State instead of Alabama.

[Bill Landis]

I don't think it'd be like a.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

Conversation like, sorry, Mike Doss, but, you know, and. And if he had had the freshman year at Ohio State in Alabama, we maybe would be saying Caleb Downs is the seventh best Buckeye of all time or whatever. You know what I mean? And we're putting. And now we're making an argument of like, well, actually he's better than this Heisman winner, right? Because, like, at his position, his individual. How it contributed to team success, but the fact that it's only two years, it certainly matters. But that's what we're talking about here for one of the safety positions. And then what. What have you thought of the way that Caleb Downs has been used in a variety of ways this season? Because it was such a talking point a year ago with Jim Knowles.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, a little differently at times there. There's not as much as that sort of three high structure with Caleb Downs kind of parked in the middle as maybe I thought there would be coming into here. There's definitely been some of it. Matt Patricia has carried some of that over, but he's also, I think, like, at times put down sort of like down on the line of scrimmage a little more. Not always to rush, but like, just. Just kind of move them around the. The border maybe a little bit more than Jim Knowles did. So I think it's good. Like, I think they've. I think they've certainly tapped into his versatility. His snaps by position 34 on the defensive line, like last year, he had 11 snaps on the defensive line. This year he has 34, 214 in the box, 226 of free safety, 134 in the slot, and nine at corner. So that's. That's like spread out. The most it's been spread out kind of in his career, certainly a little more spread out than last year. So I think they've done a good job, like making sure he's in different spots and making sure offenses kind of can't kind of like key in on him and. And move the play away from him.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

And then when you think about his level of play this year, just what he's done, you think it's been equal to last year? A little better, A shade under last year?

[Bill Landis]

I don't. I. Yeah, I. I would say equal at the very least because. Because he's the kind of guy like you sort of you have to, you have to move beyond sort of what the box score tells you. And just, and just think about how integral he is to the structure of things, some of the positions that he's put in. It's like, like there was a play against Michigan, right, where there was like a couple different shifts and Ohio State responded in kind and like all of a sudden Caleb Downs is like your weak side linebacker and it's like, okay, you gotta, you gotta go run down and make this run stop because otherwise if you don't, they're gonna score kind of thing. And like that doesn't show up in the box score as anything other than just like one tackle for Caleb Downs. But it's like that the entire integrity of the play depended upon him. Right? So there's, there's a lot of that.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

With him.

[Bill Landis]

That I, I like. I don't think people need to watch the game that way necessarily, but it just, I think those are the kind of things that are on people's minds as they put him up for awards like the Nagursky for defensive player of the year. So I think his impact has been tremendous. Even if like he doesn't have 100 tackles.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

Yeah, I mean the guy's a, the guy's a hundred. The guy's a a hundred at his position. And I just don't know that there's a ton more that, that you would ask for from him. Jaylen McLean. We had a conversation about Jayla McLean the other day. It's like, is he the. The most sort of like underrated Buckeye or the guy who maybe has mattered the most with the fewest accolades or something like that. You think about him that he is a true second year player. He's basically played every snap that matters on defense. In the 20247 sports composite ratings coming out of high school, he was the number 375 national player in New Jersey. He was the number 36 safety and he is like rock steady man. Which is and has been incredibly impactful. Because if he vanished overnight, are we a thousand percent sure we know exactly what Ohio State would do at that position if it wasn't him?

[Bill Landis]

No, I, I'm not sure. Malik Hartford did the red shirt thing and also was hurt. I mean, I guess it would be Fahim Delane, but I wouldn't. Yeah, it's true. Freshman or, or Leroy Roker who's a red shirt freshman. It would be, I think it would be a pretty significant drop off, I think. And I think he, Delane is going to be a really good player here. I just like, I don't want to put a true freshman in that spot. So, yeah, McLean's been not only vital to the defensive success, but like his durability, I guess has been key too because they're not especially deep at safety.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

Yeah, and it's one of those where there's just so many standout guys. But a lot of times I think you can be defined sometimes by like your weakest link almost and I don't even know, but like he's not that at all. But if you were trying to go through, it's like, well, David Snigmanosin is going to be this. And Jermaine Matthews, man, he's a baller. He does this. And Caleb Downs does this. And Sunny Styles and Rvel Reese, it's like, okay, well where, where's the drop off? And the drop off is not at Jalen McLean and he leads this team of defensive snaps by PFF. 645 snaps this year. Jermaine Matthews, 634. Caleb down 619. This guy does not come off the field, Bill. And he tackles, he covers. I don't think he has a weakness in his game, but I also think you can see the play making upside and he's, he's kind of Caleb Downs Jr. Who is going to graduate into full Caleb Downs a year from now. And nobody is going to expect the exact same level of play. But man, this guy, this guy has a chance to be a three year starter in the Ohio State secondary and an absolute bedrock member of what should continue to be one of the best defenses in the country.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I think he will be, I think he'll be a captain. He like the, he has what it was a645 snaps. Like he's not been penalized. He's a clean player, has not been penalized.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

Wow.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, Neither he nor Sonny Styles have been penalized. Not the jinx guys. I think they know you can watch games certainly and see like some young guy moments from McLean. Like there's been a banana angle here, banana angle there. Maybe some of his run fits against Indiana were not tremendous. He was downfield on one of the shots that Indiana took. I think maybe, I don't, I don't think on the completion, but maybe on the play where there's like a weak past interference call against Lorenzo Styles. So they're pretending like he's a perfect, ready made or finished product kind of player. But for him to step up with like really not much in the way of experience coming off of last year to play as well as he's had has been really impressive, like one of like one of the more impressive things on the defense, probably something we've not talked about enough because there's so much star power here. So he's been more than solid, which is really like, I think if you would have asked any Ohio State fan like, what, what would you sign up for right now coming into the season for the safety spot across from Caleb Downs, and you said like it can be solid, maybe not spectacular, but solid. They would take that in a heartbeat. And I think there have been times where he's been something more than that. Right. We talked about the Michigan game where he's didn't do anything crazy, but he played like sort of patiently and and tracked down a couple those three long runs that kept them from going for for touchdowns or at least more than they they went for. So like even that kind of stuff again, doesn't blow you away necessarily, but it's really important. So. And he just strikes me as a guy who has the mental capacity to handle a lot more too, so that when Caleb Downs is gone, as you mentioned, I do think he's going to take over a lot of that stuff.

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[Doug Lee Maurice]

Can I, can I run through sort of like Ohio State safety history from in the playoff era? Let's start in 2014. You good with that?

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

And. And I'll just read you because we also again, like the evolution of the Ohio State safety position. Sometimes there's three, sometimes there's two, sometimes there's one. Right? Remember that? Remember when we were in the single high safety era, then all of a sudden we were in a safety driven defense and our heads were spinning, bro. Man, how do we even cover this team for a while?

[Bill Landis]

All right, five minutes on the Bullet.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

What do you mean we're doing the Bullets? Getting his own position breakdown. The Bullet. The Bullet. You go play. You play Connections ever on the, the New York Times thing?

[Bill Landis]

Occasionally, yeah. And I'll play. I'll play Sports connections too. On, on the Athletic. And you do sports connections?

[Doug Lee Maurice]

Oh, yeah, the sports connections. Because it's like so you have like a bunch of words and you have to put them in groups of four. And I think this would be, this would be a good sports connection. Do you know anybody at the Athletic who puts that together over there who's putting together the Athletic game?

[Bill Landis]

We can ask him. You want to do one of. Of Kakamimi Ohio State defensive positions that never came to fruition?

[Doug Lee Maurice]

No, I wanted to, I wanted to do something. We have to think of two more things. But one of them would be the Bullet and one of them would be the a Michigan man. And the answer would be things that are dead. And it would be. So we have to come up with like, you know, King Tut. It's like King Tut, a Bullet travel by trolley and Michigan, man. Things that are dead. It's like, oh, that's really good. 2014. You. You say you give like a gut reaction to the, to the safety group, right? 2014 and 2015. Ty was Powell and Von Bell.

[Bill Landis]

Love it.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

Just like, what a pleasure. What a pleasure. On and off. Everything you want.

[Bill Landis]

Great personalities. Yeah.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

Oh, my God. What else? Come on. I mean, I'm sure that Jack Tatum and Mike Doss are swell fellas, whatever. But like if we're doing by safeties, you want to just hang out with Von Bell and Tybus pal. But also Complimented Each other so well. Tremendous. 2016, Malik Hooker and Damon Webb.

[Bill Landis]

I mean, Malik. Malik Hooker is so spectacular that, like, it's hard. It's hard. And Damon was a solid player. Like, it's a good group.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

It's hard because it's like that secondary. It's four first round picks and Damon Webb because it's. Because it's Gary on Connolly, Marshawn Lattimore, and Denzel Ward. And then it's sort of like, oh, hey, Damon Webb. Why? And so it's like, okay, well, not everybody can be a first round pick. So, like. Like, pretty darn good, though. 2017, Jordan Fuller and Damon Webb. Yeah, we're getting into eraser territory. 2018, Jordan Fuller and Isaiah Pryor slash Brendan White, which is. We're starting to enter the era of the iffy second safety position.

[Bill Landis]

You mean Rose Bowl MVP Brendan White?

[Doug Lee Maurice]

What am I saying? Why do I got to be a hater? But I mean, like, there's that time where it's like, okay, like, there's a guy you believe in, and then like, I'm not so sure about the second spot back there. 2019, just Jordan Fuller. Jeff Halfley says, we don't need those stinking second safety.

[Bill Landis]

That's kind of Sean Wade.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

Sean Wade's kind of the single highest day. That's true. But he's like. But we call him a slot corner, and we call him his corner. I don't know what we called him.

[Bill Landis]

This was. This was. This was. Sean Wade was like kind of a nickel strong safety. And then there was also Pete Werner, who at times was also a strong safety.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

Yeah. But at the time. But they called him the Bullets for every time Pete Warner was back as a deep safety. We all jumped out of the press box head first. It was like, what are they doing?

[Bill Landis]

There was the. There was the. The whatever. There was the Sam linebacker and the Bullet, and they were supposed to be different people. And then they were just both Pete Werner.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

Right. And it's like, why is a SAM linebacker 30 yards from the line of scrimmage? And it was like, well, he's not a Sam liker. I was like, but he is a Sam linebacker. It's like, no, he's not a Sam linebacker. He's the Bullet. Well, how do we know? Could he do something? Could he put on a fluorescent jersey when he's the Bullet, as opposed to.

[Bill Landis]

The Sam linebacker on the sideline and, like, have him go in there and spin around and then run back out.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

Just looking exactly the same?

[Bill Landis]

He wears glasses when he's the same linebacker and he takes them off when he's a bullet.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

Yeah. But he doesn't put on a new costume. It's like, it's a tiny bit of a change. Hello, I'm Pete Warner. Hi, I'm your humble Pete Warner. You look exactly the same. No, but when I'm the bullet, I talk like this. And when I'm a Sam linebacker I just talk like this. I'm regular. And then we would all freak out less. So anyway, Jordan fuller, he's good. 2020 Josh Proctor and Marcus Hooker.

[Bill Landis]

We'Re.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

Getting like Josh Proctor came back around and was like a kind of a veteran hero. But there were some, there were some.

[Bill Landis]

Times early Josh Proctor was, was not great.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

There were some times. 2021, Ronnie Hickman and Bryson Shaw.

[Bill Landis]

No, Ronnie Hickman had a bunch of tackles that year, but I don't think that was a very good safety tandem.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

2022, Ronnie Hickman, young Lathan Ransom and Tanner McAllister as Jim Knowles arrives with a safety driven defense.

[Bill Landis]

So yeah, okay. I think an okay group and it's.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

Hard because it's like Lathan Ransom by the end was a baller but like there were some, I think, you know, growing pains there. Right. 2023, Josh Proctor, the revived like back from a broken leg. Great story. Great veteran presence. Josh Proctor, Sonny Styles out of position and Lathan Ransom in 2023.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, okay. Like not, not ideal probably, especially with Sunny playing safety.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

And then 2024, Caleb Downs in like full third year starter. Let's get after it. Lathan Ransom, like that's kind of the standard, isn't it?

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, really good. Yeah.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

So I do think because Lathan Ransom was such a baller last year, this actual safety group is probably a scooch of a step down just because Jaylen McLean is a first year guy and Lathan Ransom last year was a third year guy.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I think that's probably fair.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

But, but also I think maybe, maybe that Downs Ransom pairing last year was like the best safety play. Ohio stated scenes as a pairing since, since Tyvis and Vaughn. So yeah, yeah, it's been an interesting road here. The Ohio State safety position and here we are trying to decide how good they were. Before we do, let's talk a little bit about the future. We're doing this with all the position groups. We did special teams as our first one. This is our second group that we are breaking down. We'll do it with 10 different position groups. We're going to give a rating. What did our substack subscribers say on 1 to 100 what does bill say? What do I say? If you want to be able to like vote and things like that, have conversations with us, read our stories, get two extra podcasts a week. Come join us over on Substack. Bill and Doug osu.substack.com and also go buy a shirt. Roback.com they sell shirts. R H O-B-A C-K.com Casual, comfortable, classy. Roback.com Bad 20 saves you 20 on your first order. Looking at like the future, Caleb Downs is going to be making a bunch of money in the NFL next year. Jayla McLean will be back as a starter, we expect next year. Malik Hartford, as you said in this red shirt position has also been hurt but like could be in the mix next year. Yes.

[Bill Landis]

Sure. I don't know what to make of either of these red shirt situations if I'm being totally honest. And I'm not going to pretend like oh yeah, that guy who couldn't get on the field this year is definitely going to be an impact player next year. Like right. I hope it works out for, for both of them. But my, my prediction certainly would not be that Malik Hartford is a starter next year.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

Leroy Roker in the mix. But do we think Fahim Delane as a sophomore who next year as a sophomore who is a true freshman this year is playing a bunch of special teams is clearly on the second unit. Our guess would be Fahim Delane and Jayla McLean of the starters next year.

[Bill Landis]

Yes. I think the wild card is Blaine Bradford.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

Okay, so they have desean Stewart and Cody Haddad who are in this current freshman. But then they signed Blaine Bradford, they signed Simeon Caldwell, they signed Kamari Bing Akari's room. Pretty good. Right? Like if you think about that, we're kind of grading on the present, but people should feel good about both the present and the future. At safety.

[Bill Landis]

I think it's pretty good. Yeah. Even like Roker is a guy that was sort of like under, under the radar who I think they really like. I know he had a, was one game. He had a pretty bad moment I think on special teams but oh, they allowed that like weird like fake punt I think was it against Wisconsin and I think Leroy Roker was the guy who like should have made a tackle and didn't. But I, I think he could be involved too. Maybe maybe some rotation next year. Sort of like opposite Jalen McLean maybe. But Bradford's like got the potential to be on the field early as a true freshman. So if that's the case and Fahim Delaney is who we think he is and whatever, like Roker and Hartford or wild cards, like, it's not. It's not a bad thing to have a couple names in the mix. So. Yeah, I think, I think, you know, no one's Caleb Downs, but I think they could be in a decent spot next year.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

Yeah, no, I think. I agree with that. Why don't we start with the. With the good folks over at Substack and their combined vote. On a scale of 1 to 100 at the safety position this year, you want to guess what they said?

[Bill Landis]

93.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

Close up shop. He nailed it. 93. Yeah. 93. 93. A lot of one hundreds. Sort of like, like, what else do you want? Do you want to first see Mall American to safety? Like, what do you want? You have the best safety in the business. And then his younger apprentice who is learning from him, but also at the moment playing alongside him and basically doing everything you want. So what else do you want? Like, that's 93 is pretty good.

[Bill Landis]

When are we posting?

[Doug Lee Maurice]

This Sunday. Okay.

[Bill Landis]

Caleb Downs won the four board.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When's yeah, yeah, yeah. Congratulations, Caleb Downs. Yeah, Great honor. It's good podcasting by you right there.

[Bill Landis]

That's right.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

Third podcaster.

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[Bill Landis]

And he's also. I was like trying to do a very quick run through this, but I think he's going to be like, the program's like fifth multi time unanimous All American. There's not been a lot of the, like Marv was one, Archie was obviously one. I think like Bob Ferguson was one. Okay, maybe like one other. Orlando Pace was one and that, that might be it. Caleb Downs I think is going to.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

Do it this year. Take that Jack Tatum and Mike Doss. I don't know, you're making a case. We got plenty of time in the off season to do this stuff. People want us to do it, we can do it. I mean like we can do this stuff all day. Great. I love talking about Ohio State legends. Caleb Downs is Ohio State legend. Like how about that? Okay, 93 from the folks. I'm gonna check in at 92 and I'll tell you why I'm checking in at 92. I know, hater. Yeah, I, if I think it downs is 100, right. And I originally was gonna like be at 95 overall because I thought McLean's 90, right? McLean's a 90. And then I was just like, yeah, but you, you would take last year's group and he, he is a first year guy and man, it is like your first year starter and you're a 90. Like that is, that's not like a lot of room to grow. So then I, I kind of dropped it to more like a, like an 84 or something like that. And it's like, yeah, now, now I feel like it's should be offended at Jello McLean's 84. It's like 84 is awesome. Like that's not an 84, like a mid B. That's not how I'm thinking about that. But it's like, man, like if you're up in the 90s, it's like you're as like practically as good as it gets. And I do think there's a little room to grow there. So that's how I got to my 92. But I'm just going to have to remind myself you're going to do 100 I can see it in your eyes. I'm going to have to remind myself of this as I go forward. Like, it is a high standard, because it's like one guy in that room is the best you could ever ask for ever. And maybe that would be the case for maybe making it higher. It's like, Caleb Downs isn't 100 Caleb Downs like 111 out of 100. What are we talking about? Like, he's literally the best you could ever ask for in the modern era. At safety. I feel bad. What's your number?

[Bill Landis]

92 and a half. This was a hundred. 100 for Caleb and 85 for.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

All right. Okay. What is wrong with us? So what is our average, then? Doing math live on the show, divided by three. We'll come out at a 93. We'll round up. Okay, so 49 on special teams, 93 at safety.

[Bill Landis]

Most of the other ones will be higher than special teams, I bet.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

Yeah. Oh, man. Started with a 49. So we'll keep doing this every day. That's our plan. If for some reason, like, there's so something so crazy that goes on that was like, well, we don't have time. We have to do other shows, then maybe this will get backed up. But our idea is to sort of, like, you know, make sure we have an evaluation of this. And it is our plan, Bill, to definitely reset the top 22 Buckeyes before Ohio State takes the field again. So that's for our Substack subscribers. We. We've done it three times already this year. We. We draft. We draft the 22 best Buckeyes. We talk about who's moved up, who's moved down since the preseason, since the last draft. I think it gives us just a fun opportunity to talk about the players on this team, which, if you're not careful with college football, you can forget to talk about how good the players are, which is actually kind of the most fun to do. So it allows us to do that, but it also reminds us where we were wrong, where we were right, who has exceeded, exceeded expectations, who's come from out of nowhere. Like, make sure we're crediting guys who are maybe a little bit unsung. Like, it's a great place to have a conversation about a guy like Jaylen McLean on the top 22 Buckeyes. So we will be doing that on a Wednesday show on Substack. And if that sounds fun to you, that would just be one of the many reasons to go ahead and subscribe over there. Bill and Doug osu.substack.com All right, you feel good about 93?

[Bill Landis]

I do feel good about 93. Yeah. I'm. I'm super interested to see which position group ends up getting the Highest grade.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

Yeah. Yeah. 100 up there. Yes. Because it's only, you know, only two. So that's different than trying to evaluate, like, five guys on the offensive line, where it's like, man, this guy played well and this guy played well, but then there's like five spots or five spots. Perfect. That's hard. Two spots at a high level, that's a little easier. So we will do that. We will certainly have the rankings by the end of the year. What we think the best position groups were for Ohio State through 13 games. We appreciate you guys letting us hang out and talk a little ball with you for now. He's Bill Landis. I'm Doug Lee Maurice. And that was the Bill and Doug Show.

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[Bill Landis]

Where can we find Sonos and Samsung and Nintendo?

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[Bill Landis]

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[Doug Lee Maurice]

It's all in one.

[Bill Landis]

Clorox Toilet Wand.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

It's all in one. Hey, what does all in one mean? The Caddy, the wand, the preloaded pad. There's a cleaner in there inside the pad. So Clorox Toilet Wand is all I need to clean a toilet. You don't need a bottle of solution to get into the toilet revolution.

[Bill Landis]

Clorox Clean Feels good.

[Doug Lee Maurice]

Use as directed.