Ohio State special teams grades: Future kicker plans and how good should Buckeyes' special teams be?

Summary

The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Special Teams Grades — Future Kicker Plans & How Good Should Buckeyes' Special Teams Be?

Date: December 14, 2025
Hosts: Doug Lesmerises & Bill Landis
Podcast Network: Blue Wire

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Episode Overview

Theme:
Doug and Bill kick off a 10-part Ohio State position group rating series by diving deep into the Buckeyes’ special teams. The focus: how critical special teams can be, especially placekicking, what’s gone wrong lately, portal/planning strategies for future kickers and punters, and realistic standards for the defending national champs.

The episode brings an honest, analytical, and often humorous critique to the “most frustrating, least interesting, and yet sneakily most important” aspect of Ohio State football. The hosts dissect recent failures, compare OSU with peers, and advocate for an aggressive transfer portal approach — “You’re with me, kicker!” — to solve the team’s specialist woes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Start with Special Teams? (02:00-03:00)

• The series will rate all 10 Ohio State position groups before the Playoff, giving each a 1-100 score, incorporating subscriber votes, hosts’ ratings, and analysis.
• Special teams, although less glamorous, has been decisive in major losses for OSU in recent years.
• Quote, Doug: "Simultaneously, it's the most frustrating and also maybe the least interesting to talk about...because it's special teams." (02:40)
• Quote, Bill: "Name a position that has lost Ohio State a playoff semifinal, a Michigan game, and a Big Ten championship all in the last four years... Field goal kicker would be the number one answer." (03:10)

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2. The Kicker Problem & Big-Game Failures (03:00–06:26)

• Recap of several high-leverage misses in the 2022, 2024, and 2025 seasons — most from short range, not “bombs.”
• Doug produced statistics: In Power 4, kickers made 94% of 20-to-29 yarders in 2025; OSU’s misses in this range are big outliers.
• Quote, Doug: “Only one of them was a bomb. The rest were should-be-makeable for most college kickers.” (03:59)
• Quote, Bill: "332 for 354 on field goals in the 20s. That’s why Ryan Day called it a chip shot. That’s why they probably should have gone for it — but once you’re in the situation, you gotta make the kick." (05:09)

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3. Why Is It So Hard to Solve? (06:26–10:41)

• Kicker volatility: Even in the NFL, kickers can go from great to cut and replaced quickly. In college, you can’t just swap veterans.
• Scholarship/opportunity constraints: Top programs use their kicker/punter less, which may make those jobs less attractive.
• Anecdotes: Transfer portal targets, Lou Groza Award-winners, and the long odds that a great FBS specialist lands at a place like OSU.
• The “Mike Nugent nostalgia” effect: People remember a time when OSU absolutely relied on a star kicker, but the program now rarely needs one if the offense is clicking.
• Quote, Doug: “If you’re really good [as a program], you probably do want to go to a place where you’re gonna get some action — which might mean your offense isn’t good.” (09:08)
• **Quote, Bill:" "The design of the program is kind of set up for their worst position group to be special teams, especially when it comes to the specialists.” (13:25)

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4. Should OSU Become a 'You're With Me Kicker' Program? (15:21–20:54)

• Bill presents a survey of top 10 playoff teams — 5 of 10 have kickers acquired via transfer (proven small-school kickers) instead of developing their own.
• The “You’re with me leather”/“You’re with me kicker” philosophy: Just go get a proven leg via the portal every year; loyalty and sentimentality are out.
• Quote, Bill: “I think Ohio State should be a ‘you’re with me kicker’ program for the rest of eternity. Who’s the best kicker at a small school Ohio State can go steal?” (19:14)
• Quote, Doug: “You’re paying a million dollars for a backup right guard. You can pay for a kicker.” (21:15)
• Discussion about price, portal plan, and the practicalities of ‘renting’ reliable specialists. Comic moment: They discover Bowling Green’s first team-all MAC kicker, Jackson Cleather, as a hypothetical candidate.
• Quote, Bill, joking: “No, you're with me Cleather… sometimes the podcast gods smile on you. You're with me Cleather… future Buckeye Jackson Cleather, we invite you on the pod!” (19:59–20:35)

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5. OSU’s Current Specialist Situation (21:19–27:06)

• Jaden Fielding missed critical kicks vs. Michigan and may be gone; transfer Jackson Kerrville (Ball State) was brought in but didn’t see action.
• At punter, Australian product Joe McGuire has an underwhelming leg; they have another Pro Kick Australia punter (Nick McLarty) but haven’t trialed him.
• OSU’s approach: adequate coverage, but insufficient “flip the field” power or consistency in the kicking game.
• Quote, Doug: “McGuire just doesn’t have a strong leg. He can’t flip the field… He’s serviceable, but if you’re punting from your own 21 and really need to flip the field, he’s not the guy.” (26:27)

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6. Return and Coverage Game (29:21–32:20)

• Kick and punt coverage uses promising freshmen and sophomores; overall, they’ve been fundamentally sound, if unremarkable.
• Kick and punt returns: Minimal impact in the modern game. The hosts emphasize secure hands over explosive returnability.
• Quote, Doug: “I’m sort of of the mind, like, as long as they’re catching it, then like, I’m okay because it’s just not really part of the game anymore.” (32:07)
• Note: True freshmen like Jalen McLean often start as “maniacs” on special teams and eventually become starters.

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7. What Should OSU Special Teams Be…Really? (14:10, 32:20–34:49)

• Bill and Doug agree the “100” standard OSU can set for other position groups isn’t reasonable for specialists. Not programmatically designed for it.
• For returners/coverage units, adequate is fine; for specialists, there should be zero loyalty. Every year, find a better option via the portal if one exists.
• Quote, Bill: “Every year, have zero loyalty to the existing punter or kicker. I would work the portal like a maniac.” (33:14)
• Quote, Doug: “Jaden Fielding is out of eligibility. They need a new kicker, unless Jackson Kerrville can do it. Joe McGuire has eligibility, but I think they could upgrade.” (33:14)

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8. Numeric Grades for Special Teams & Closing Thoughts (33:26–36:16)

• Subscriber average (hundreds of votes): 40/100
• Bill’s grade: 45/100
  “If you’re in a situation to kick a field goal you really need, nobody believes in it… That’s a net negative.”
• Doug’s grade: 63/100
  “Mostly average, slightly above average in some areas.” Only grading <50 if ‘net negative.’ Most areas are ‘fine’, field goal unit is the concern.
• Consensus average: 49/100
• Special teams are “just a tick under half — right under the middle.”

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with timestamps)

• On special teams as game-deciders:
  “Field goal kicker would be the number one answer.” — Bill Landis (03:10)
• On Ohio State’s rare misses from chip-shot range:
  “Should be makeable for most college kickers.” — Doug Lesmerises (03:59)
• On letting failed kickers go:
  “Once Jaden Fielding missed two makeable field goals against Michigan last year, Ohio State’s attitude should have been ‘he’s not our kicker anymore for next year’ — because it’s big boy school.” — Bill Landis (21:23)
• On transfer approach:
  “Why should we not think of it that way? And more importantly, why should Ohio State not think of it that way?” — Bill Landis (20:54)
• On coverage/returns:
  “I think the kick coverage team is good... as long as they’re catching it, then like, I’m okay because it’s just not really part of the game anymore.” — Doug Lesmerises (32:07)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Intro to ranking and show theme: 02:00–02:54
• Kicker failures and context: 03:10–05:51
• Statistical realities (short FGs): 04:05–05:09
• Transfer portal & future kicker philosophy: 15:21–20:54
• Current personnel review: 21:19–27:06
• Coverage, returns, and special teams identity: 29:21–32:20
• Philosophy, future approach, and grades: 32:20–36:16

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Overall Tone & Takeaway

Candid, statistical, slightly irreverent and practical, Doug and Bill insist that OSU’s only path to elite special teams is an aggressive, portal-based solution for specialists, paired with a sober acceptance that kick/punt returning matters little in today’s game. While OSU can (and should) aim for excellence everywhere else, simply not letting special teams become a liability is the reasonable goal.

Bottom line:

• “You’re with me, kicker.” Find a proven transfer every year.
• Don’t expect OSU to ever be “Special Teams U.”
• Coverage units & returns: functional, not spectacular.
• Grading: Net neutral at best, negative when the game’s on the line.

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End of Summary

Transcript

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[Bill Landis]

Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show. We're talking about Ohio State special teams because we just wanted to have you snap your neck. Go what they said they're what they're doing a show. We're going to look at all the position groups. Bill, Doug Lamoris and Bill Landis. We're going to do 10 position groups between now and Ohio State's first playoff game and we're going to give a 1 to 100 rating for each group. We asked our sub stack subscribers for their rating. We have averaged that. You're going to give a rating. I'm going to give a rating. We're going to go through all 10 position groups. You guys know the other nine, offense and defense. But we are going to do special teams and we're going to start with that because we are sensationalistic and we're trying to get attention.

[Doug Lamoris]

Yeah. And also simultaneously, like the most frustrating one to talk about and also maybe the least interesting one to talk about because it is. It is special teams. So.

[Bill Landis]

And the most important.

[Doug Lamoris]

Yeah, well, like, yes, I know what you're getting at. Yes. But I also almost like separate the conversations, like who is your field goal kicker and how good are you on special teams? I think very different conversations. But anyway, we can get into it.

[Bill Landis]

But if we were going to do Family Feud, name a position that has lost Ohio State, a playoff semifinal, a Michigan game, and a Big Ten championship game all in the last four years. Buzz. It doesn't mean you couldn't buzz in on some other positions, but you'd have to think a little harder. But field goal kicker would be the number one answer.

[Doug Lamoris]

Yeah, it would.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. And listen, like, I'm a little rever. You know, there's a million plays that happen in a game. It shouldn't come down to that, whatever. But it did. And they missed it like, like, I think sometimes we can go too far with like, hey, there's all these things. It's like, well, yeah, I don't know to tell you. But then also it came down to a really important kick. And Ohio State's missed four important kicks in the 22, 24 and 25 seasons in three of their biggest games that directly contributed to losing. So I don't know what to tell you.

[Doug Lamoris]

And only one of them was a bomb. Like the other ones we're talking about were like, should be makeable for most college kickers.

[Bill Landis]

What did you just say? Should be makeable for most college kickers. That's my intro music. Let's go to the stats of Doug looking up power four kickers this year. 68 teams. What are those teams on field goals of between 20 and 29 yards? Bill Landis. This is the field goal that was missed against Indiana was 27 yards, I believe. What do you believe is the make percentage on field goals in the 20s? Power 4 teams in the 2025 college football season according to what I added up on. What did I add it up? Pff. CFB stats. I added it up at a real place.

[Doug Lamoris]

Okay, I will say 84.

[Bill Landis]

Look at you, kind hearted soul. You sucker. My God, are you gonna sit here and just give everybody a big warm teddy bear hug? Are you gonna talk ball? 84. 94.

[Doug Lamoris]

College kickers, man.

[Bill Landis]

94. I think 55 of the teams made every single one. So we're talking like you know, 13, 14, whatever his teams that even missed any of them, by the calculation thing. I missed field goals in the 20s, 332 for 354 on field goals in the 20s. And so that is what Ryan Day referred to it as basically a chip shot. That's why they called it. They probably should have gone for it. Shouldn't have never been in that situation. But then once you're in the situation, you got to make the kick. Do you know the last time Ohio State missed a 20 yard field goal, a field goal in the 20s, previous to its last game? When was the one before that?

[Doug Lamoris]

20, 20, 16.

[Bill Landis]

2020. Blake Hobbyl against Penn State. It's because he was hurt. He was hurt in the pregame and they were like, let's try a 20 yard field goal anyway. And his groin exploded when he kicked it. He was like, we're not doing that anymore.

[Doug Lamoris]

Oh, yeah. Dom DeMarco in. Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

Yes.

[Doug Lamoris]

Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

The last time a healthy Ohio State kicker missed a field goal in the 20s. People can look that up on their own. If you want to ruin your holidays, feel free. I, I, I got as far back as I could go and I was like, I'm stopping there. But I got.

[Doug Lamoris]

The point is that was Dominic Damasio, not the market.

[Bill Landis]

Would you have a little more respect for specialists here? So anyway, not great. Can I now offer two excuses for the Ohio State kicking game? One is one that we've talked about before. So one is this. In the NFL, kickers have it and lose it all the time. The Browns, I know, for instance, had like the thing a couple years ago where they got Dustin Hopkins on waivers from the Chargers right before the season started. And then he was awesome for them that year. And then they brought him back the next year and he stunk and he got cut. So, like, guys lose it. Kickers are kind of for no reason, good and then bad, year to year, month to month, week to week sometimes. And in the NFL, when your kicker has like three bad weeks in a row, you cut him. And then there's another professional kicker who's home mowing his lawn and you call that guy up and that guy says, wait, I gotta get in shape. And then he says, I ran around the block, I'm in shape, I'll be there and kick on Sunday and you're good to go. And you can't do that in college. So I do think, yeah, it is, it is a, it is an interesting. And I would, you know, I think somebody can do this for the Sloan Conference or whatever, you can do a statistical thing of, like, kickers who lose it. And in the NFL, they lose it and they. They fix it. And they don't fix it by giving the guy a pep talk or taking him out to Chili's and getting him the free chips and salsa and saying, like, how are you feeling right now? They cut him. And in college you can't. And that is quite a difference because kickers losing it is actually kind of expected.

[Doug Lamoris]

Yeah. And the other thing. Well, I guess maybe the changing. I don't know this. I would say it more as an assumption than. Than fact. Uh, you're usually not carrying more than one, like, kicker, more than one scholarship kicker, more than one kicker that you think can actually do something for you. Although Ohio State is.

[Bill Landis]

Yes. So that's one, two is. I always think, man, you're a great football program. How don't you have. Why don't you have a great kicker? You're great at everything else. Is there actually maybe contradictory things here that if you're great, especially on offense, kickers don't want to come play for you because if they don't get to do stuff and you'd rather go kick or punt for a mediocre team who uses the kicker and the punter rather than a great team who's like, hey, you want to kick nine field goal attempts this year? And we've discussed that. Do you think that's real?

[Doug Lamoris]

I do think that's real. There was a guy who was in the portal, it was from Miami, Ohio, who was the Lou Groza Award winner that Ohio State was recruiting, and he ended up not coming to Ohio State. I don't know. I think he went to Alabama, so it's not like he went to Iowa.

[Bill Landis]

Kind of like, lost the job.

[Doug Lamoris]

Yeah, yeah. He actually wasn't very good. Also, like, the. The Dominic Zavata from Michigan. Right. Was, like, automatic last year and, like, kind of stunk this year. Like, it's a. To your point, like, guys do tend to lose it quite a bit. Yeah. I think it's probably true of kicker and punter at a place like Ohio State. It's just like, you don't. You're not out there a bunch. I think Ohio state's only punted 24 times this year or maybe 25 times in 24 for Joe McGuire. So, yeah, like, if you're really good, you. It's kind of a weird thing, but you probably do want to go to a place where you're going to get some action, which might Mean that your team's not very good, at least your offense isn't very good.

[Bill Landis]

And people long for the days of Mike Nugent when we play the game in our chat over at Substack of if you could pick one Buckeye right now to add to this team. And I say Orlando Pace, and people say, nope, Mike Nugent. That might not be wrong. But also remember what Ohio State football was when Mike Nugent was here. It was like Iowa east, they were lining up for 53 yard field goals to win games on the regular. That was kind of what they did. So it was like, hey, do you have a great kicker? It's like, you better have a great kicker. Your whole program depends on it. Mike Nugent's like, yes, let me be your savior. And now that's not what this program is. It's just the identity changed a little bit. So it actually makes sense that Jim Trestle had like the best kicker that Ohio State ever saw and that this era, it's kind of been a little. To paraphrase, kick or miss.

[Doug Lamoris]

I'm looking at the finalists for the Groza this year. Okay, so they are Aiden Burr from Georgia Tech, who has kicked 28 field goals this year. Ken Same. How do you say his last name? Matsuzawa from Hawaii.

[Bill Landis]

Oh, the Hawaii guy from Ohio. Yeah, frankly.

[Doug Lamoris]

Learn how to kick in Ohio, who's kicked 26 field goals this year. And then the other is Tate Sandell from Oklahoma whose offense stinks. He's kicked 24 field goals this year. And how many is jaden Fielding kicked?

[Bill Landis]

19, which actually is kind of middle of the pack. Yeah, actually, so can I. Let me just look at this guy real quick. The, the guy, the Hawaii kicker came from Ohio. So see of eligibility. Can't tell.

[Doug Lamoris]

I'm looking.

[Bill Landis]

Looks like because he played lower level. This is second year Hawaii foreign. I'm just trying to graduated high school in 2017. I think he's out.

[Doug Lamoris]

Yeah, I think he might be out. Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

Unfortunately we can't start the. If the Hawaii kicker from Japan is not on an Ohio State, it's not on the Ohio State roster next year. It's malpractice and everybody should be fired. Like they've got to go get this guy who went to small college, learned.

[Doug Lamoris]

How to kick at Hocking College in Nelsonville, Ohio.

[Bill Landis]

Bring it on down to Nelsonville Hawking College. It's lovely there in Hocking Hills. You go to Hocking Hills and hike, hike there at the old man's cave. Go check out the old man's Cave old man comes out and haunts you when you walk by the cave. So you brought up a thing that's also a thing I want to talk about. So I'm just trying to create. And it's also like, as we write this, right, it makes sense that every other position, as Ryan Day says, when you're a position coach and when you're a possession coach, especially at Ohio State, your goal should be. Must be to have that position become blank. You, that position, you. And I don't know that anybody's thinking that, like, hey, Ohio State better be punter. You or everybody's in trouble. That it actually makes sense. Ohio State, the design of the program is kind of set up for their worst position group to be special teams, especially when it comes to the specialists. Now, if talk about kit coverage, and we do, we'll talk about kit coverage briefly, that's different. But I think people get like, People have Mike Nugent and Cam Johnston as a punter in their head when we talk about this stuff. And actually, I think perhaps they're actually the exceptions to the rule and not what should be the standard. And so then as we're going through and it's like, man, this guy, this kicker is not the Arvell Reese of kickers. I will tell you that right now. He is not the Carnell Tate of kickers. He is not the Julian Saiyan of kickers. He's not the Caleb Downs of kickers. He's not the Austin Saravelt of kickers. He's not the Kenyatta Jackson or K. Curry or Kaden McDonald kickers. It's like, yeah, I know. Because it's kind of shouldn't be. But then when you're, when you're setting that Ohio State standard and as we go through who are going to go 1 to 100 in every position group, Ohio State honestly is in a position to shoot for a hundred. In the other nine position groups. They're not going to get there on everyone. But, like, you wouldn't say to Ohio State, well, you can't be 100 offensive line. That's ridiculous. Like, hey, Ken, it can't be a hundred at linebacker. It's like, yeah, you know, you can, but on special teams, I actually think they're not set up to be a hundred.

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[Doug Lamoris]

I think at. At the kicking position specifically. Yes. Yeah, I think that's right. Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. Okay. So do you want to play another game? Another kicking game? I went through the. The 10 teams that are the 10 teams in the playoff, like the power conference teams, not JMU and Tulane. No offense to them, but that's not what we're talking about here. So how many of them have kickers right now who they brought in as transfers? And the ones that I care about as transfers is you proved it somewhere else that you can do it. So we said to ourselves, rather than holistically developing a kicker with from within in the modern nil and portal era, we, we will go steal a guy that somebody else developed because we can. And that's how we solve our special teams problems because we have a bunch of money to throw around. And I'm sorry that we're taking advantage of the system of the 10. How many have that?

[Doug Lamoris]

Well, I know Oklahoma's one because Tate Sandel is from UTSA.

[Bill Landis]

Three, like four and a half. Okay, so, so let me run through it very quickly. Texas Tech got the Buffalo kicker who was second team all Mac last year, but then they put him in competition with the guy and he was the kicker at the beginning of the year and then kind of lost his job and now he's actually already in the portal again. But anyway, it's like they tried, you know what I'm saying? So it's like it didn't exactly work, but they went out and got a group of six kicker. Okay, Texas Tech. So like, I. I don't know how to count that. Oregon's kicker is from Oregon State. Austin. Sappington. Is it Atticus Sappington.

[Doug Lamoris]

Atticus Sappington.

[Bill Landis]

Atticus Sappington. Man, that is hard for me not to say that. Stetson Bennett voice. Is he mop? Atticus Steppington. He came from Oregon State two years ago, but I still count because he was a good kicker at Oregon State. And Oregon was like, yeah, come over here, right? You know, like you got. Everyone's heard the famous legend about Chris Berman, right? Chris Berman at the Chris Berman. They named a blog after this. Like 20 years ago, there was a legendary story that somebody, a gentleman was at a. A bar talking to an attractive woman in a leather outfit. And it's. The guy was like, oh, this is going very well. I'm making inroads with this attractive woman. And at some point, Chris Berman walked over and said, you're with me leather. And walked out with her. Oh, wow. And then there was a blog called you're with me leather. So that's what kicking Portal kicking is, right? Oregon says the Oregon State kicker, you're with me leather. And away you go. So how many you're with me leather circumstances do we have? So that's two. Ole Miss got the Western Kentucky kicker who was the Conference USA special teams player of the year. So that's ole Mrs. Kicker. They went and did it right. You're with me leather. We also, if people do people find that offensive. I'm not here to offend people. We can call it, you're with me kicker. Is that better?

[Doug Lamoris]

Sure.

[Bill Landis]

You're with me kicker. Oklahoma got the UTSA kicker and he was the SEC special teams player of the year. You're with me kicker. And then Miami got a guy from Florida Atlantic who was their kickoff specialist and didn't really do field goals, but he was kind of their long range field goal guy and they brought him in to compete and he won the job. So he wasn't completely established as a field goal kicker at fau, but he was good at something. Good enough that Miami want and got him with a purpose. You're with me kicker. So we have five you're with me kickers of the playoff. Let's. No, let's do that right now. Because this conversation as we talk about special teams groups are what is Ohio State now? What do we rate them for this year, but also what do we expect them to be? I think Ohio State should be a you're with me kicker program for the rest of eternity. And it's like, who's their kicker going to be next year? And I think my answer until further notice is I don't know who's the best kicker at a small school that Ohio State can go steal.

[Doug Lamoris]

I'm just looking up who the first team All Mac kicker was.

[Bill Landis]

Is that wrong thinking?

[Doug Lamoris]

No, I don't think so. I mean, you can. You can whatever go to the Coles kicking camps and try to find one out of high school. I guess I would just take one.

[Bill Landis]

Out of the portal and not like some. Oh, he was 6 of 11 at USC in a year and a half. Like, go get a guy. It's like, who are like, right, Mark, put it on your list.

[Doug Lamoris]

I hope this guy has eligibility.

[Bill Landis]

What's his name?

[Doug Lamoris]

He's a junior. He's a fir the first team All Mac kicker is a junior at Bowling Green who's from Tip City, Ohio, whose name is Jackson Cleather.

[Bill Landis]

No, it's not here with me. Clever. Sometimes the podcast and God smile on you. You're with me, Clever. My God, I can't wait to put that headline on our substack page. Oh, my God.

[Doug Lamoris]

86 this year. 19 of 22, 3 of 5 from 50 plus and 5 of 6 between 40 and 49. And hasn't missed from in.

[Bill Landis]

What was in the 20s. Perfect. Perfect. In the 20s.

[Doug Lamoris]

Between 20 and 40. 11 of 11.

[Bill Landis]

No, you're with me. Clever is here to stay. Okay. Congratulations. And future Buckeye Jackson Clever. We invite you on the pod. Open invitation. So. But is that in it? Like, is that. Why should we not think of it that way? And more importantly, why should Ohio State not think of it that way?

[Doug Lamoris]

There's no reason. I mean, I guess it's. What. I don't know, what a kicker costs. Right? So, like, if you're doing the math, you only have so much on your budget. Maybe, but I think you earmark. I mean, what could it be, honestly? Earmarked 200 grand for a kicker every year?

[Bill Landis]

Some of that sweet, sweet Ethan onion. Will money peel some of that off and give it to a kicker?

[Doug Lamoris]

You're paying a million dollars for a backup right guard. You can pay for a kicker.

[Bill Landis]

Also, no offense, no loyalty to kickers.

[Doug Lamoris]

No.

[Bill Landis]

I think once Jaden Fielding missed two makeable field goals against Michigan last year, Ohio State's attitude should have been, he's not our kicker anymore for next year because it's big boy school. And it's. It's a. It's a pro sport in many ways now. And this is not. It doesn't mean you take. The guy can still go to school. He can be on the team if he wants, but he's not starting kicker. Like, it's over.

[Doug Lamoris]

But they did bring Somebody in, I think with maybe with that idea. And then like the way that Ryan Day explained it was that Jaden Fielding beat him out in camp.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Doug Lamoris]

Jackson Kerrville from Ball state, who made 84 kicks last year, who's currently on the team and has.

[Bill Landis]

Yep.

[Doug Lamoris]

And was 2 of 2 from 50 plus last year.

[Bill Landis]

All right, so this. Then they should then get to that. I don't know. I mean, so like, if they're already doing that, then do it. Then don't have the guy who missed two kicks against. Because. Because honestly, it's like nobody cares what you are against Purdue. Hey, made a 38 yard field goes against Purdue. Nobody cares now.

[Doug Lamoris]

He was bad two years ago. Like, like to your point of kickers being volatile. In 2023, Kerrville made 71 of his kicks. And in 2024 he made 84 of his kick.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. So anyway, so that's where we are. So maybe they're already doing it. But like, that wasn't the guy who was on the field against Indiana. So I don't know what to tell you.

[Doug Lamoris]

No, he hasn't been on the field at all this year.

[Bill Landis]

So then. Then what are we like then? Okay, so I will say so. 16 of 19 on the year for Ohio State on field goals. 19 field goals, it's like 19 field goal attempts. Like 63rd of the nations, right in the middle of the pack. Texas Tech leads the country with 33 attempted field goals. The fewest, Notre Dame nine, NC State, eight. Louisian Monroe's seven. And Notre Dame, for instance, tried three kickers this year and it was a mess. And so part of the issue also is like, once it doesn't work, what do you do? Notre Dame was 5 of 6 on field goals in its first six games. And then they only tried three field goals the last six games and they missed them all. And they also missed a couple extra points, like when they started to get nervous. And I was watching a news conference from Marcus Freeman and I think clearly someone had said, what's the issue with the field goal kicking? And he said, the issue was every time we kicked the ball, it did not go in between the field goal posts. So that's the issue. It's like, okay, so they tried three different guys. And then the. The issue is, as he said, if you rotate three kickers, you don't have, you don't have one. He said our team deserves for us to make extra points and field goals, which I just think is. Everybody knows that, but it is a reminder that a head coach said that you can say like, oh, what about the kickers? Like, yeah, what about the other 104 guys who were putting it on the line? And now it comes down to a 27 yard field goal that you can't make. Notre Dame, when the kicker was more. Okay, they went forward on fourth down 14 times. In the first six games of the year, they were five of 14. The last six games, when the kicking stuff started to unravel, they were 12 of 17 on fourth down. For instance, against USC, they were up like by three. They had a fourth and four from the 13 yard line and missed a 31 yard field goal against USC. And then later in that game where it was still a one score game, they were at the USC 28 yard line and had a 4th and 15 and they turned down a 45 yard field goal and went for it on 4th and 15. So if we're trying to figure out what you and I have talked to, they did not. So what we're talking about here of like, what does this look like right then it's like the next week they tried one field goal against Boston College. It was the last play of the half, like from the 17 yard line and you could either throw the ball in the end zone from the 17 yard line and hope you get like a tip, or you can try a field goal. And they tried the field goal and they missed it. They missed a 35 yard field goal. So, like, I didn't watch every Notre Dame game, but they, I think by just by the stats, had so many field goal problems that basically in the second half of the year, they stopped trying field goals. And I think that might be where Ohio State is.

[Doug Lamoris]

That's where I would be if I were them.

[Bill Landis]

Okay. All right, so field goal kicker, bad punter, I don't know. They got a guy.

[Doug Lamoris]

They can't flip the field.

[Bill Landis]

I can't.

[Doug Lamoris]

Joe McGuire is not from the portal. Joe McGuire's. They got him from Real Kick Australia.

[Bill Landis]

Who's the, who's the Buffalo guy from the Portal? That was last year.

[Doug Lamoris]

Anthony Veneri. Yeah, he never, he never punted. Here it's, it's Joe McGuire and Nick McLarty who they both, they both signed out of Pro Kick Australia.

[Bill Landis]

Joe McGuire is from Pro Kick Australia. God, I have been saying Joe McGuire in my head with a Buffalo intonation the entire year. Joe McGuire. I know it was Joe McGuire. Okay. If they can't develop Nick McLarty, that's also a failure. It's like, what do you have? It's like, we got four. It's like Kenny Punt. Nope.

[Doug Lamoris]

Sometimes. Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

It goes 70 yards every time. Sometimes straight, sometimes sideways. But like, you got to develop that guy.

[Doug Lamoris]

Yeah, they do. Yeah, it's. I don't. Yeah. Either that or stop going to pro kick Australia. I guess. I. I don't know. Like, McGuire. McGuire just doesn't have a. Doesn't have a strong leg. He can't flip the field when they're, when they're trying to pin a team deep. He's. He's serviceable. I think like when they're punting from like the 50 or in or whatever, they're just trying to pin a team down. He's. He's okay at that. But if you're trying to punt from your own whatever, 21 and really flip the field, he's not, he's not the guy to do it. And McLarty should be, but they never put him out there to try. So. Yeah, no, he can do it again.

[Bill Landis]

All right, Go develop that punter. So fine. Fine at best, right? Fine at best at punter.

[Doug Lamoris]

Yeah. Fine is. Yeah. Finest. Probably.

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[Bill Landis]

Um, right. By the way, Bill and Doug show. Man, it's great to have you here. If you're watching on YouTube, go give us a like. Make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss anything. We're going to be dropping these positional breakdowns for the next 10 days. Tell a friend about the Bill and Doug Show. If you want to drop a review on Apple Podcasts or if you want to drop a comment, we'd love to hear it. We appreciate your feedback so much and also go see our friends at roback.com r h O-B-A-C-K.com use the code BAD20 BAD20 to get 20% off your first order. I don't know that how shipping works but just have them ship it to my house and I'll come to your house and come down the chimney and make sure it's there by Christmas.

[Doug Lamoris]

I don't know what to tell you.

[Bill Landis]

Roback.com Go get a cool quarter zip polo for the holidays Kick Coverage Can I give you the primary guys on Ohio State kick coverage this year and see what you think of the group?

[Doug Lamoris]

Sure.

[Bill Landis]

First year players Fahim Delane, TJ Alford, Riley Pettajohn. What do you think of that?

[Doug Lamoris]

Sounds great.

[Bill Landis]

Just running down there and covering kick. Second year players Garrett Stover, Leroy Roker, Aaron Scott, Bryce west and Peyton Pierce. We think of those second year fellas. Great.

[Doug Lamoris]

They're good group. It's a good unit.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, they always like to have a veteran out there. Last year was Denzel Burke, this year it's Jermaine Matthews. Right. And I think there's that usually like last line of defense guy who maybe doesn't run down quite as fast and just make sure everything is like should be. Is that right? I think that's maybe what he does.

[Doug Lamoris]

Yeah. Yeah. And I think C.J. hicks was doing it for a while too and then he decided limited.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, only like 11 kick coverage snaps according to PFF and then Joey Velasquez as a veteran, sort of like as that that veteran guy. Usually like to have one guy like that in there. So that's good. Good. Like what do you think? Generally like the rest of special teams.

[Doug Lamoris]

I think their coverage team like teams don't really return kicks and punts all that much anymore. But yeah, when teams have tried I think Ohio State's been pretty good at it. Teams actually do try to return kickoffs a little more frequently against Ohio State. I'm assuming because they figure they're not going to move it with offense, they might as well try to spring a kick return. But I can't. There's not really been any that have been super threatening. They've actually had quite a few nice tackles sort of like down inside the 15 yard line made by some of these young guys. So I think the kick coverage team is good. I think the, the punt coverage team, I think has been pretty good. I would like, you know, there was a time where, like, we really talked a lot about Ohio State's gunners on punt coverage, like Terry McLaurin back in the day. Definitely not quite Devin Smith, probably not quite as good as, as that. But I think part of that is the punter too. Like, how adept are you at getting that thing to like, actually sit there rather than bounce into the end zone? But I would say like, I would say like, good, good enough coverage wise.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. Okay. Just as a heads up, like the guys who led them in, in kick coverage snaps a year ago, number one, Jalen McLean. So, like the thing of like, oh, you play on special teams, whatever. Jalen McLean was a true freshman last year, running down like a maniac, and now he's the starting safety. So, like, keep your eye on for him. Delay next year. Okay? That's kind of where we are. And the return game is like, fine. I think the return, right. Like, they tried the little trick and Brandon Ennis has been a little better. But people like to talk about the return game, but usually the conversation is.

[Doug Lamoris]

Not that worth it again, it's just not a huge part of the game anymore. They got the kickoff return for a touchdown early earlier this year. That was cool.

[Bill Landis]

That was great.

[Doug Lamoris]

I'm sort of, I'm sort of of the mind, like, as long as they're catching it, then, like, I'm okay because it's just not really part of the game anymore.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. You want to see him throw it sideways on a return again?

[Doug Lamoris]

No, thank you.

[Bill Landis]

All right, so let's do future real quick before we give our grades for this unit this year. I think they're always going to have good guys to throw out there and coverage units, they're always going to have options in the return game and they're almost always going to go with a reliable guy whose hands they believe in over a super explosive guy. And I think you can hope and pray if you want to that that's going to change. And I just wouldn't hold your breath on that. Even though every year, like people get excited about that. I think it's, I think the possibilities are interesting. I think the results are pretty standard and typical and you, you know what to expect. There it is, the K.J. hill version of a punt return guy. And that's, that's okay. And I just think I would just every year have Zero loyalty to the existing punter or kicker. It doesn't matter if the guy has eligibility or not. I would work the portal like a maniac. And if you think you can improve in the portal, I would spend to get a guy.

[Doug Lamoris]

Yeah, I think I agree with you. So Jaden Fielding is out of eligibility after this year, so they kind of need a new kicker. Unless they think Jackson Kerrville can do it. Joe McGuire does have eligibility, but I think they could upgrade there if they wanted to.

[Bill Landis]

Okay, we asked. Let's save our subscribers because we asked. Rate all the position groups from 1 to 100. What's your rating for Ohio State special teams?

[Doug Lamoris]

63.

[Bill Landis]

Oh, my. Oh, my. Now you're making me rethink. No, I'm like, I'm rethink mine slightly. How. How. How are you thinking about this? Is it more in your head that, like, 63 is a D? Or is it more in your head that, like, if you're okay, that's like a 50. Like, if you're in the middle of special teams, that's a 50. If you're good, I would only above 50. If you're bad, you're below 50.

[Doug Lamoris]

I would only go below 50 if I thought, like, special teams was like, a net negative. And I don't think that. I think it's mostly average, just like, slightly above average in some areas. So that's why I picked 63.

[Bill Landis]

Interesting. I would argue that. I think it is a net negative because if you are in a situation to kick a field goal that you really need, nobody believes in it. And I believe that's a net negative on the team. And the rest of it might be average. I don't know that any other part of it is above average. But I believe the state of the field goal kicking, when it really matters, is. Is a net negative right now.

[Doug Lamoris]

Yeah, I mean, he hasn't been bad for the year.

[Bill Landis]

He just. When it didn't matter.

[Doug Lamoris]

Right? Sure, sure. But he. And he has. He's had. Has had one high leverage kick this year, and he missed it. But he's also missed them in the past. I'm not saying, like, actually he's good. I. I don't. It's just hard for, like, I don't know that I'm downgrading the entire special team's operation because their kicker is not reliable. I. I guess I wouldn't fight with anybody who could do that. But, like, I don't know. I was looking like special teams efficiency on FEI, they're 37th. It's not like they're 108th, so. Right. SP + they're 63rd. They're a little more middle of the pack in that way. So, like, I don't. I don't know that there's any part of their special teams that is a net positive. I just think most of it's neutral, aside from field goal kicking.

[Bill Landis]

Okay, I think we probably agree with that. It's like, then how did you assign a grade to that? I'm gonna go 45 and I'm going to tell you that our hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people voting, the average was 40 for our subscribers on substack. And if you want to be able to. To vote in some of this stuff and have conversations about position groups. Anything else, read our stories. Get two extra podcast. Can you join us on our [e-mail] so 63 for you, 45 for me, 40 for the subscribers. That's an average of 49.

[Doug Lamoris]

Yeah, I mean, that probably. That probably feels right. Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

Just a tick under half. Yeah, Just right under the middle.

[Doug Lamoris]

Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. Okay. All right. That's how we'll do this for the position group breakdowns. We'll line up the rest of them and we'll talk, you know, like, more specifically about individual players. When we're talking about linebackers and tight ends and defensive line and cornerbacks, we'll dive into like, hey, what do you think of Davis and Ignosin? And what do you think of Carson Hinsman? Right. So special teams is a little bit weird, but again, you know, we just wanted to be able to have a headline to start this off that says, like, what is wrong with Ohio State special teams? And, you know, just see if the algorithm loves that or not.

[Doug Lamoris]

So we had loved it last time we did it, so.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, that's true. Did it really? Did it go crazy last time?

[Doug Lamoris]

Yeah, I think it did. Okay.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, we got a pulse on the finger. I don't tell you. Finger on the pulse. Pulse on the finger. We'll do the podcast. Last 11 position groups, Ohio State podcasts. What do you think of that? 12. He's Bill Landis. I'm Doug Lay. Maurice. That was the Bill and Doug show.

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[Doug Lamoris]

Welcome to Walgreens.

[Bill Landis]

Looking for a holiday gift?

[Doug Lamoris]

Sort of.

[Bill Landis]

My cousin Freddy showed up to surprise us.

[Doug Lamoris]

Oh, sounds like a real nice surprise.

[Bill Landis]

Exactly. So now I have to get him a gift. But I haven't gotten my bonus yet. So if we can make it something really nice but also not break the bank, that'd be perfect.

[Doug Lamoris]

How about a Keurig for 50% off? Bingo savings all season?

[Bill Landis]

The holiday road is long.

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