Ohio State spring football surprises, top explosive players, Brock Boyd predictions: Around the Shoe

Summary

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The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Spring Football Surprises & Explosive Players

Episode Air Date: April 7, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode of “The Bill and Doug Show: Around the Shoe” from Blue Wire dives into Ohio State's spring football storylines, focusing on surprises from spring camp, the wide receiver breakout by Brock Boyd, and predicting explosive offensive playmakers for the upcoming season. Doug Lesmerises and Bill Landis are joined by Ohio State media members Dylan Davis (Delaware Gazette) and Bill Rabinowitz (Substack, formerly Columbus Dispatch). The discussion is lively, fun, and packed with on-the-ground insight for Buckeye fans, including position battle analysis and reflections on Big Ten basketball's rise.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ohio State Spring Football Biggest Surprises (02:45–09:10)

• Earl Little’s Emergence at Safety

  • Dylan Davis highlights the praise for transfer safety Earl Little, especially Ryan Day’s positive comments:

    “All the praise that Earl Little is getting...Ryan Day’s went out of his way a couple times, just unprovoked to bring up Earl and the job he’s done for Ohio State.” (02:56, Dylan Davis)

  • Little is praised for instant versatility, NFL bloodlines, and maturity, increasing confidence in the secondary’s depth.
  • Key context from Landis: Comparing safety expectations to elite predecessors:

    “If we use like the Caleb Downs standard, people are going to be walking around banging their head into a wall all year.” (03:47, Doug Lesmerises)

• Safety Room Health

  • Terry Moore’s comeback from injury and the influx of depth is a positive surprise, creating a “really good spot” for the back end.

• Limited True Surprises

  • Bill Rabinowitz notes the lack of big shockers:

    “The surprises are—there haven’t been a lot of surprises. Part of it is we don't get to see a lot.” (05:56, Bill Rabinowitz)

  • Wide receiver room depth noted: “Julian Sayin looks the part. Jeremiah Smith looks the part…”

• Brock Boyd’s Unexpected Buzz

  • Bill Landis declares freshman WR Brock Boyd “the number one surprise” of spring:

    “He’s like the 800th ranked recruit in the class...their second-best receiver is this kid from Texas that nobody cared about when he signed.” (08:00, Bill Landis)

  • Discussion on “magic headline names” at OSU (Braxton Miller, Tate Martell, etc.) that drive fan interest, with Brock Boyd emerging as the spring’s breakout.

2. Explosive Offense Emphasis (11:58–13:20)

• Doug notes Ryan Day is “hammering” the need for offensive explosiveness in both run and pass games, with emphasis on yards after catch and second-level running:

  “He’s really putting it out there.” (12:46, Doug Lesmerises)

• Bill Rabinowitz and Dylan Davis attribute last year’s lack of explosiveness largely to the inability to break tackles at the second level and desire to ramp it up for postseason. The whole group agrees the Buckeyes are shifting focus in both philosophy and player development.

3. Brock Boyd: Hype & Predictions (14:42–26:23)

• Catches Prediction for 2026 Season:

  • Bill Rabinowitz: Jokes “3,” then gives a real estimate of “30 to 40” (14:42).
  • Bill Landis: “Like 35” (17:27), drawing comparisons to Garrett Wilson’s freshman production (30 catches in 2019).
  • Doug Lesmerises: “18” (21:23), less bullish, favoring historical norms where even talented freshmen aren't featured.
  • Dylan Davis: “11” catches (23:15), emphasizing that while Boyd is underrated, meaningful snaps are tough with so much receiver talent.

    “I'm just not buying Brock Boyd as a significant part of the offense right now.” (24:06, Dylan Davis)

• Discussion Points:

  • Does Boyd’s lack of size/perimeter blocking limit his snaps?
  • Can he break the freshman mold and become a true rotation player—or is he mostly a splashy spring name?

4. Offensive Line Battle: Who’s the Starting Left Tackle? (26:23–34:34)

• Predictions:

  • Landis: “Ian Moore, 95%” (26:39)
  • Doug: Moore, but only “75%” confident.
  • Dylan: Moore at “80%” confidence, citing last year's solid Purdue cameo and belief he’s “best tackle.”
  • Rabinowitz: “Saravel at 55%” (28:42) being conservative; coaches might play it safe, especially early. Points to Padilla as a serious guard candidate if healthy.

• Debate:

  • Is the real battle Moore vs. Padilla rather than just who’s the best tackle?
  • Spring absences for Padilla muddy outlook, but depth praised.

5. Who Will Be the Second Most Explosive Offensive Player (Behind Jeremiah Smith)? (35:52–39:55)

• Dylan Davis: “Devin McEwen,” with a strong nod to Legend Bay:

  “His ability to get the ball in his hands underneath and operate in space, the speed’s real.” (35:52)

• Bill Rabinowitz: “Bo Jackson,” hoping he breaks through on second-level runs.

• Bill Landis: “Legend Bay,” calling out Ryan Day’s comments:

  “That’s because Legend hasn’t been out there.” (38:31)

• Consensus: Watch for McEwen, Bay, and potentially Bo Jackson to vie for highlight plays, though historical production and health matter.

• On Brandon Ennis: All agree he’s vital but hasn’t shown that “explosion” yet; more proof is needed.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Brock Boyd’s Hype:

  “You don’t get [freshman praise] at this position from guys with Brock Boyd’s profile…not even close. It’s Brock Boyd.” (08:00, Bill Landis) “Are we gonna play this clip back in February after Brock Boyd has 51 catches for 762 yards and be like, look how dumb we were?” (25:09, Doug Lesmerises)

• On Explosiveness:

  “If last year Ohio State treated the season like a marathon…well, it didn’t work out very well.” (12:48, Bill Rabinowitz)

• On Left Tackle Battle:

  “I think [Ian Moore’s] going to be a really good player for Ohio State…I think that just makes so much sense for the offensive line.” (27:50, Dylan Davis) “Especially if they get to the start of the season, they may say, let’s stick with what we know [with Saravel].” (28:42, Bill Rabinowitz)

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Other Noteworthy Segments / Timestamps

• 41:17: Reaction to Michigan winning the NCAA men’s basketball championship
  • Davis: “Resentment…just sitting there watching that and stewing last night.” (42:45)
  • Rabinowitz: “Envy. Anytime Michigan has success, Ohio State fans, it drives them crazy.” (44:29)
  • Landis: Suggests Michigan’s win could “galvanize” Ohio State to action in basketball just like after football title.
• 48:54: Doug’s “Signetti-ish” coinage—referencing both Dusty May (Michigan basketball) and Curt Cignetti (Indiana football) as elite instant-turnaround coaches, driving the point that “if you’ve got a great coach, you got a chance, like, overnight.”
• 51:38: Dylan warns of potential Cincinnati basketball surge under new coach Jared Calhoun—could disrupt Ohio State’s state superiority.

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Final Thoughts

• The spring session has produced solid optimism for the defense, a fascinating (but perhaps overhyped) WR breakout in Brock Boyd, and an ongoing OL chess match.
• Iron sharpens iron in the receiver room—boyd, Bay, McEwen, and Ennis all aiming to become the “next up.”
• Michigan basketball’s national title is an irritant, but also a motivator and blueprint for Ohio State hoops.
• The podcast’s tone is fun, direct, and sometimes self-deprecating—“Are we going to play this clip back in February after Brock Boyd has 51 catches?”

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Detailed Segment Timestamps

• 02:45 – Spring surprises: Praise for Earl Little; safety room
• 08:00 – The Brock Boyd hype train starts rolling
• 11:58 – Ryan Day’s push for offensive explosion
• 14:42 – Brock Boyd catches predictions (Rabinowitz: 30–40, Landis: 35, Doug: 18, Dylan: 11)
• 26:23 – Offensive line battle; left tackle predictions
• 35:52 – Most explosive player after Jeremiah Smith
• 41:17 – Michigan wins basketball title: Buckeye fan emotions
• 48:54 – Coaching as the ultimate difference-maker; “Signetti-ish”
• 51:38 – Cincinnati basketball warning shot; future Ohio State coaching ramifications

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This summary provides a comprehensive blueprint of the episode’s main themes, discussion points, and memorable moments, including speaker attributions and timestamps—engaging for Buckeye fans whether or not they listened in.

Transcript

[A]

As a hockey player, I love sports. But sometimes when I take a puck to the teeth, I wonder is sport clips better than sports? Because sport clips haircuts is sports on tv. Plus an expert haircut, hot steam towel and massaging shampoo which is better than sports plus orthodontists Sport clips. It's a game changer. Check in [e-mail] Walmart Express delivery can get what you need delivered in as fast as an hour. Whether it's baby formula, when you're down to the last scoop, pet food before the bowl runs, empty batteries for a dead remote or a last minute gift, it is handled. Try Walmart Express Delivery today and get free delivery with promo code Express Promotion valid for First Express delivery order $50 minimum subject to availability restrictions apply. Welcome back to around the Shoe on the Bill and Doug Show. Doug Lamoris and Bill Landis joined every week by two outstanding members of the Ohio State media. This week, Dylan Davis, Bill Rabinowitz here to talk about Ohio State football as we record this on Tuesday the 7th, 11 days away from the Ohio State spring game. Dylan Davis, Delaware Gazette Remind the people where they can find your work and thanks for being here, man.

[B]

I appreciate you having me. You can find me on Del Gazette d e l gazettes.com and certainly posting a bunch of stuff on twitter @dylan davis, 56. So yeah, always happy to be with you guys. So thanks.

[A]

Wonderful to have Dylan back with us and Bill Rabinowitz back for return engagement. Bill, where can the fine folks find

[C]

your work on Substack? I left the Columbus Dispatch, I think, as most people know, last September. Yes, I did. I'm not with the Dispatch anymore. I'm on Substack along with you guys trying to build the Substack brand, right? Trying to, trying to get that platform to be kind of common knowledge. Bill on the Buckeyes, it's Bill Rabinowitz Substack. You can find it.

[D]

Yeah,

[A]

Just walk down the street. If you're just walking down the street somewhere and you say to somebody, bill Rabinowitz, where can I find that guy? Most people would know, I know where to find him. Bill. Bill also is, is he said he doesn't feel as bad as he sounds, but he might sneeze or cough during the course of the show, which is fine. We have five topics about the Ohio State Buckeyes. We're going to cover. We're still in the interview phase. They're still practicing. We're still going in and talking to people. We heard from Ryan Day on Monday, which is why this show bumped back from Monday. We usually do this on Wednesday. We're doing it here on Tuesday right now. Dylan Davis, we will start with you wide open. What is the number one most surprising thing to you of Ohio State spring football so far?

[B]

I don't know that anything's really surprised me, but I think the one thing that's really stood out, that maybe I wasn't expecting this early on, is just all the praise that Earl Little is getting. I'm really excited about what Earl Little could be for Ohio State's defense. Ryan Days went out of his way a couple times, just unprovoked to bring up Earl and the job he's done for Ohio State. So I don't know, like, again, anything's really surprised me, you know, from what we've been able to see and the interviews we've had. But just Earl Little's emergence in that defense and what he could mean for them. Look, nobody's going to replace Caleb Downs. That standard is not even, you know, realistic to live up to. If anybody's going to hold them to that standard, you're going to be disappointed. But that doesn't mean our Little can't be a really important, versatile piece for that defense. And I think he's starting to become that. And again, I don't know what I said. I don't want to say it's surprising because I thought he was. I knew he was a good player coming in here. But just for him to get the praise that he has and to show that versatility right away, I think bodes really well for Ohio State secondary moving forward. If they're coming out of the spring with that piece kind of already in place, that's a really good place to be operating from heading into fall camp.

[A]

And it does feel like we have to make sure that. And this is a. This applies, I think, to a couple positions this year. We have to make sure we're using the right context to evaluate guys like that. Because Landis, if we use like the Caleb down standard, people are going to be walking around like, banging their head into a wall all year. But if you say, like, well, that's. That is this guy a good, smart, veteran safety who glues the defense together and does the right thing, then you can evaluate him properly.

[D]

Yeah, I think that that's probably true in a couple positions. Right. If you want to try to hold guys to the Caleb Downs, Sonny Styles, Arvell Reese Carnell Tate standard, as Dylan said, you. You may be left feeling slightly Disappointed because that means whoever's in their shoes has to be like a top 12 pick in next year's draft. And Ohio State can be very good without those guys being that. But I, yeah, I agree with Dylan. Like, it's good to hear that Earl Little has kind of hit the ground running. I guess it's not surprising, right? He's played a lot of football. He's been a two big time programs, Alabama and Florida State. He was a captain at Florida State last year. He's got NFL bloodlines. Right. Like, he's checking a lot of boxes for a guy who should show up at Ohio State and not be overwhelmed by anything. But it sounds like not only has he avoided that, he's. He's maybe even thriving a little bit. So for, for him to just give him some options, I think on the, on the back end of that defense is going to be really good for Matt Patricia.

[A]

Yeah, I, I was struck by it. Just like the, I was, you know, Landis knows this. I was like, enamored with the way the safeties were lining up and like safety options. Dylan. Like, it's just Earl and, and Jalen McLean at the front of that, but like just an interesting group that I'm curious to see how that whole back end with the safeties comes together.

[D]

Sure.

[B]

I mean, the room's in a really good spot in general. I mean, we're not even talking about a guy like Terry Moore, who Ryan Day we kind of went out of his way to bring up again when he was talking about Earl yesterday. So that safety room's in a really good spot. Leroy Roker is going to be right there, you know, fighting for playing time as well. So it seems like Matt Gregory has a know group of safeties to work with. I just think the Earl's versatility, as you mentioned, just the way that they can use him and deploy him in different ways just is. It's so important for what Matt producer wants to do. So.

[D]

Very good.

[A]

Bill Rabinowitz, what. What struck your ear, struck your eye so far?

[C]

Well, I just. When you mentioned Earl Little, that was one for sure. What's funny is that now I really feel old because I cover Earl Little when I cover the Browns and I remember Little earliest and, and I, you know, I was. Earl Little was one of the players that actually had a really good relationship with and gave Facebook friends and all this stuff. And you know, I followed Little Earl growing up and now that I'm gonna be covering him, same thing with Chris Henry. I covered Chris Henry senior with the Bengals and it's like, oh, my God, I'm really, really old. But yeah, you know, the fact that Earl Little has. Has settled in quickly and he's a versatile piece. Some people talk about him playing nickel cornerback, nickel spot that Lorenzo Styles played last year and, and also just a conventional safety combined with Terry Moore who had the knee injury missed last year. I mean, Terry Moore had a really good career at Duke until he got hurt. So, yeah, that's the fact. They're both out there and so, you know, seemingly acclimated. Well, that was the question I asked Ryan Day yesterday about those guys. And. Yeah, but I think the other thing is the surprises are. There haven't been a lot of surprises. Part of it is we don't get to see a lot. Right. I mean, that's just the reality. Know, we don't. You don't get to see like 11 on 11 full contact very much, if at all. They're missing the two top running backs they have. They're missing their two offensive tackles right now. And so to make any, you know, major judgments right now. I remember last year at this time, you know, Austin S left tackle. Really, you know, that was. That was kind of the thing. I don't think there's anything like that this year. You know, Julian S. Looks the part. Jeremiah Smith looks the part. You know, I think the fact that Kyle Parker and Devin McEwen, along with Brock Boyd, you know, who we're going to talk about later, they've got a pretty deep receiver room, which ought to be good news for Ohio State fans. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So maybe the surprise is not that many surprises. Right. Because sometimes you go in and it's like, again, I. Sometimes you show up on the first day of spring practice and there's somebody lined up somewhere and you're like, what? And you sort of can't believe that. Right. And so, you know, I don't know, maybe. Maybe we haven't had a moment like that. Landis, what's been your thing?

[D]

I feel like I'm in a fantasy football draft and I have like the 11th pick and Lavinian Tomlinson just felt. Because the answer is Brock Boyd. What are you talking about? He's like the 800th ranked recruit in the class. They have Chris Henry Jr. Who had this very public will he. Won't he come to the program after Brian Hartline leaves and everyone thinks he's the next Jeremiah Smith. And Free entire spring who've been talking like their second best receiver is this kid from Texas that nobody Even cared about when he signed. Is he going to be the second. Second leading receiver on the team this year? I have no idea. But the way that Ryan Day is talking about him, the way that teammates are talking about him is insane. Like, and we get freshman praise all the time. Like that. That's not new at Ohio State. But you don't get it at this position from guys with Brock Boyd's profile. Like, this is number one surprise. Not even close. It's Brock Boyd.

[A]

So, to be fair to our. Our lovely guests here today, the next question is about Brock Boyd. And so pretty sure, like, well, we don't wanna. We don't want to save Rock Boy, because Doug sent us the rundown and we already do. We're doing a Brock Boyd kind of thing. And then Landis just jumped in off the top rope and is like, no, it's Brock Boyd for question one and Brock Boyd for question two.

[D]

I thought you set it up that way intentionally.

[B]

I was trying to be a part of the program. I just assumed that we wouldn't bring that up so that we could, you know, segue into the next one.

[C]

You know, the only thing missing is Landa saying, you idiots, it's SEO, man.

[D]

The computers. The computers are listening. You can't say his name enough. Brock Boyd. Brock Boyd. Brock Boyd. Brock Boyd. Yeah. Those numbers up.

[A]

I. I am super curious. And like, you guys know this. We've joked about it a lot over the years. Like, there are magic headline names sometimes. Braxton Miller was a magic headline name. You. You couldn't. You could say, Braxton Miller ties his shoes. Tate Martel was the all time magic headline name. Right. You know, there are just. Obviously, Jeremiah Smith is a magic headline name. Aaron Craft was a magic headline name. Like just one of those. No matter what that guy does, good, bad, weird, boring, that guy, people are automatically interested. And I, I do feel a little bit like Legend Bay walked for the first couple practices of spring so Brock Boyd could run. Because I thought, right, Landis, like, you're saying it's Brock boy. Just Brock.

[C]

What?

[A]

Like, we were at the. For the first two days, it was Legend Bay.

[D]

Yeah. This was going to be the spring. This was going to be the. The spring of Legend. Yeah. And then he got hurt.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

So we'll see. I hope he can play in the spring game, because if Rock Boyd and Legend Bay both play in the spring game, I don't know what we're going to do. I don't know who we're going to talk about.

[C]

Talking about those guys we're gonna have

[B]

to bully Will Pantages into giving us Brock bet or Brock Boyd.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Legend Bay after the spring game.

[A]

So let's make them. Make them the two captains. It's not Scarlet versus Gray. It's the Boyds versus the Bays. It's like the Hatfields and the McCoy. Like, like, I'm on Team Boyd. I'm on Team Bay. Are you kidding me? People would buy those jerseys. All right, so I'll hurry up and get my answer so we can get to the rest of the Brock Boyd question. I. I have found it interesting how much Ryan Day is talking about explosion and explosiveness with the offense and that they seem to be, like, searching for that or wanting more from that, because you do think a lot of times that, you know, who has better offensive skill people than Ohio State. How could Ohio State be, like, feeling like this is something that they are lacking? And it's something that, you know, they've. They've wanted to be so efficient. It almost feels like maybe they were willingly giving that up. But he's really on that from a running back standpoint, from. From a pass game, yards after the catch standpoint. And that, you know, Dylan, he's really. He's brought that up. You know, Jeremy Birmingham asked a good question about it on Monday, but he's kind of brought that up on his own sometimes. And it's just like a reminder of, like, oh, yeah, like, they do have incredible skill here, but you kind of get it why he's talking about it and just sort of. I didn't know maybe coming into spring that that would be sort of like a major talking point that Ryan Day would be hammering.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, and rightfully so. Look, this team wasn't nearly as explosive as it should be last year, so they need to get back to that. Some of that's not. I mean, like, it's not a huge, you know, philosophical shift we've heard of, mentioned on a few different occasions, and I might even refer to it here in a little bit. But like, Bo Jackson, breaking tackles at the second level, you know, is a big reason why Ohio State wasn't as explosive. As explosive as they should have been last year, because the guy just got brought down too easily when he gets to the second level by you safeties and linebackers. So, you know, him being able to make guys miss, you know, that would have. That would go a long way in helping, you know, the explosion factor for Ohio State offense. So, you know, some of it, I don't think is some Big philosophical. Philosophical shift. But yeah, we'll see.

[A]

He's really putting it out there. He's putting it out there.

[C]

I think some of it also is if last year Ohio State treated the season like a marathon to just get through the regular season in as few as plays as possible so you don't risk injury and then ramp it up for the postseason. Well, it didn't work out very well. They, you know, 120 in the regular season and lost both postseason games. But I think that, I don't think that they were like holding their cards, you know, close to the vest. I don't think it was quite like that, but I think it was, you know, we know we're going to beat these teams and so we don't have who cares if we win 42 to nothing or 56 to nothing and so we're only run 65 plays instead of 85 plays kind of thing. Not much tempo, that kind of thing. So I think that contributed to it. But yeah, and, and what we hear from Cortez, Hankins, Hankton was. And receivers, yards after catch, you know, Jeremiah Smith, we didn't have that last year. We were like last of the country. I'm not sure if that's true, but, but you know, when you think back on anything. Oh, yeah, you know, Jeremiah Smith didn't have like, I think about the Oregon play, you know, where he catches the swing pass, goes for a touchdown. There weren't a lot of those. There were bombs because Julian saying was really good at that. I, he was really accurate. But there weren't a lot of intermediate catches that so. And so was the house, you know, and I'm not sure if that's some of that. It was that, you know, Brandon in us wasn't as good as at that as say, you know, the receivers they had in 24. So.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I'm just. It's. It's. It's always just curious to be like what the coach is talking about, what you kind of hear the players parroting. Right. When you have multiple players saying something, it's like, oh, why are they all saying this? Well, obviously the coaching staff is talking to them about this kind of thing, so. All right, enough about this. Let's get to the whole Brock Boyd question. Question number two. Bill Rabinowitz, we'll start with you predict the number of catches Brock Boyd, freshman from Texas will have this season.

[C]

3. I know.

[A]

Reaching through. He's got punch you in the face.

[C]

I felt like Paul Lind on the old Hollywood Squares to get the first joke answer and see if somebody would react to. Yeah, you know, look, you still have Jeremiah Smith, who's the number one option. You have Brandon in his back. You do have Chris Henry. You have tight ends that Ryan Day said are better in the passing game than they thought they would be. Bo Jackson's a good receiver, so, you know, he's gonna have to fight to get, you know, extensive playing time. Will he get playtime? Yeah, I think he will. I think a realistic figure is probably in the 30 to 40 range. I think that's for a freshman with Jeremiah Smith and the other weapons on the team. If he does that, and some of it is, when he does it, is it garbage time against, you know, any of the blowouts, or is it significant time when it. When it matters? So that's my guess.

[A]

Okay. In the 30s to 40s, because this is. You're. You're putting a little bit of a stake down of. Do you think Brock Boyd has a chance to be Ohio State second leading receiver? Do you think he's gonna be a backup and really not play that much? Like, there's a wide range potentially here?

[C]

I think he's definitely like a third kind of option at this point. Now, I don't know whether the second option is Brandon in this or Chris Henry or somebody else, but I. I don't think he's like a featured guy. He's obviously not going to be more so than Jeremiah, but I think he's going to play much more than you would think somebody would. Who was ranked 800 in the country.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

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[A]

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[C]

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[A]

Landis what's your Brock Boyd number?

[D]

Similar? I think like 35 probably I I 72. I think they're gonna end up yeah, I think Ohio State's gonna end up with Jeremiah getting his and that'll be something like I don't know, 80 plus catches for over a thousand yards and then I expect the rest of the room probably to be like three to four guys who are probably in that 30 to 40 reception range. Like feel a little bit like 2019. Garrett Wilson as a freshman that year had 30 catches which was fourth on the team. Like I, I think something like that could be in the cards for, for Brock Boyd or because like right now I would be, I would view Brock Boyd is probably the fourth guy in the rotation if and there's an opportunity for like Chris Henry Jr. Jacquia and Guilford to have a awesome summer and become that guy themselves. So, so it's not like stamped that Brock Boyd is going to be you know, starting against Ball State or anything like that. He could, I don't know that I'd be for by that but, but I wouldn't predict it right now. So I think, I think 30 ish 35 is, is reasonable given how I expect the room just sort of generally to, to play out. I have no idea who the second leading receiver is going to be. For all I know it could be Bo Jackson because he's a check down monster. So we'll see what that looks like. But I don't, I don't think it's going to be something like last year where it was like there were two guys kind of carrying all the weight. I think it's going to be Jeremiah doing his thing and then the rest of it being spread around pretty evenly among four or five guys.

[A]

It's a, it's a dangerous prediction. Who's Ohio State's second leading receiver going to be? Because I don't know where you guys were but Bill and I a year ago both said Max Claire would be Ohio State's second leading receiver and we did not see the Carnell Tate I'm going to be a top 10 pick season coming and that was desperately wrong. So Garrett Wilson is an interesting comparison to 2019 as you said. Like so like they ran a lot more plays that year. They ran over a thousand plays in 2019 last year, they ran like 850, but they actually threw the ball that much last year, about as much as they threw it in 2019 because they were such a heavy J.K. dobbins and Justin Fields run team in 2019. So they were both, like, just barely over 400 pass attempts in 19 and last year. So first I was like, well, you know, like, whatever Garrett Wilson did, they were throwing it a bunch more. That's not actually true, if that's what it is. Like, that's an interesting thing, right? If it's a. It's a rotation where a freshman is. Is in there as much as, you know, like Bill said, they went five deep. It was K.J. hill and Chris Olava each had 75 targets. And then Austin Mack, Ben Victor, and Garrett Wilson kind of all had the same amount. They had, like, a real top five. If Brock Boyd's in there kind of on an equal level with Kyle Parker and Devin McEwen and maybe even with Brandon Ennis, then that's one thing I. The thing that just hold me back a little bit. When Ryan Day is talking about explosive plays, what was he talking about on Monday? He's talking about perimeter blocking. He's making. He's talking about guys downfield giving opportunities. That. That's a big part of this. And I wonder, like, Landis, do you think that could be, like, hey, wait, we see Brock Boyd shaking people on routes and seven on seven, but when it's time to do stuff, do we trust Brock Boyd to block downfield the way. The same way we might trust Kyle Parker to block downfield? And could that have an impact on playing time?

[D]

Yeah, I think it could. I don't know, because it's not like there was. There was not really anybody on the team last year that I thought was a great perimeter blocker like Brandon Ennis is supposed to be, but he wasn't last year, so. So maybe he can get better at that. Then he gets on the field more. I do think that's a strength of Kyle Parker's and get him on the field more, maybe less so Devin McEwen. But, yeah, I think. I think that'll. That'll matter. But also, I don't that. Did we ever talk about Garrett Wilson's perimeter blocking, like, at once in his entire career? Like so. And he caught 30 passes as a freshman, so I think it's a good thing to bring up. I don't think it's something that's gonna put us in a situation in the fall. We're like, well, Brock Boyd didn't play at all because he can't block. I still think he's gonna play.

[A]

Yeah, I'm at 18. Cornell Tate had 18 catches as a true freshman, a Mecca Buka had nine. Jackson, Smith and Jigba had 10. I'm not ready to throw Boyd in the Garrett Wilson. There's a five man receiver rotation like I, that I think he's gonna play like a, like a co starter, which I think if you're, if we're predicting in the 30s or 40s, I, you guys are like Verbinowitz and Landis. Do you guys both have in the 30s, 40s? Does that mean you're thinking that Brock Boyd is gonn reps with the ones in games that matter or is that in the 30s and 40s? Is that more you're running with the twos, it's garbage time kind of stuff?

[C]

I, I think it's gonna be a mixture. I think he's got to prove himself with a ladder first. You know, get, get in those games, show he can do it now, I mean again, now that think about it, you know, it might, I might be a little high on that number. I mean, I, maybe, I mean, I, I don't know. I, I, if I were. Yeah, I, I think he's going to have to prove himself. I think he's already doing it. The fact he got his black stripe off so quickly is proof of that. He's, you know, coach's son. They pick up the game quickly. They, they in kind of an innate feel for the game. And I could see him being kind of that slot guy, I guess a little bit. And you know, the guy kind of think of. And again, we haven't seen him that much. We haven't seen him at all in game action, real game action. But you know, I don't know why Jackson Smith had Jacob Pops into my head. I mean, I'm not comparing him to look at. He was good receivers in NFL.

[B]

Said jersey number.

[C]

Well, maybe that may be part of it, at least subliminally. That just kind of pops to my head a little bit. Obviously different kind of receivers, but just a little bit like that.

[A]

Yeah. All right, Dylan, what's your number?

[B]

Well, let me preface all this by saying the Brock Boyd hype this spring hasn't really surprised me as much as it has others. Because if you follow recruiting, I think most Bucket, most Buckeye fans realized that he was criminally underrated as a recruit. What he did down at South Lake Carroll, which is a dominant program in the state of Texas, you know, he, he does, he, he was criminally underrated. So I'm not completely shocked by this. With that being said, I put it at 11, one for each of his first jersey number. And so to your answer about who I think the second leading receiver on Ohio State is going to be. I think it's going to be Devin McCune. After watching Devin McCune operate on these mess routes across the field on Saturday in the team portions of, I think that's really something for Ohio State. So, you know, I'm, I'm big on the Devin McCune stock. I don't, I don't foresee Brock Boyd ever being a, a serious starter. You talk about 30, 40 catches. That means, I mean, the target number there, just to haul in 30 or 40 of those, that's a, that's a massive share there. And I just don't, I don't buy that for Brock Boyd. Now look, lsu, the last two years, LSU had six guys with double digits receptions on the year. So I expect him to be in that mix and surpass the double digit mark. You know, Even hauling in 10 to 15 passes, you know, that's, you know, the target there. And in garbage time, you're not going to get a lot of targets there. They'll throw some, they need to get Tabian some reps and let him, you know, read defenses and all those things if he's going to be next up. But when you talk about garbage time, you're not throwing the ball a ton. So for, yeah, the sheer target number there, let alone hauling in those passes, there's not going to be a lot there. So I'm just not buying Brock Boyd as a significant part of the offense right now. Again, you know, I think what Saturday was eye opening. As much as I thought he was underrated already, Saturday was very eye opening watching him cook defensive backs, you know, in his sixth or seventh practice of spring football. So I know he's, you know, he's coming, he's on his way, but I'm just not buying him as a significant, significant part of the offense to the point that he could surpass 25, 30 catches.

[A]

Are we setting ourselves up? So we have 11, we have 18, we have like 30s, 40s. Are we gonna play this clip back in February after Rock Lloyd has, has 51 catches for 762 yards and be like, look how dumb we were. Like Landis, you want to distance yourselves, you distance yourself from the rest of us right now.

[D]

I'm very, I'm very comfortable on my island look, okay, we're great. We're. I. I think he's. I don't think he's going to start against Ball State or Texas. I think he's going to play. I think he's going to have 40 targets this year.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Doug, I thought you brought up a good point. And Bill. And I agree with you as well. Bill, like, the physical component of it, is he physically ready to go block on the perimeter? And the things that also, you know, factor into being a receiver at Ohio State, you know, he's not the most physically imposing person. When you look at him, certainly he looks like he's fresh out of, you know, high school. Yeah. And he is. So that's no discredit to Brock Boyd. But, you know, if you look at him and say, are you physically ready to go, you know, hold your own on the perimeter against Big Ten defensive backs or Texas defensive backs? I'm not entirely sure about that. But to your point, Bill, as well, like, who on that team do we really look at and say they are a, you know, a true, you know, plus, plus, plus player on the perimeter as blockers? So that's fair.

[A]

All right, we're gonna do like. We have another question kind of about skill, guys. But question number three. Landis, we'll start with you. Who will be Ohio State starting left tackle for the opener against Ball State? And on a scale of 1 to 100, what is your percent confidence in this pick?

[D]

Ian Moore, 95.

[C]

Okay.

[D]

I thought once we got past the portal window in, Ohio State only ended up adding one offensive lineman and Vishon Washington, who's going to be like a depth piece here. He wasn't brought in to be a starter. I don't even know if he's brought in the. Being the two deep, to be honest. My thought was that eventually we get to a place where Ian Moore is playing tackle and Phil Daniels is going to play guard. But it really does seem like the more we talk to people that they're. They want to keep Phil at tackle and probably move Austin Saravel to guard. So I've said this on a couple of our shows. Like, my official prediction is that Ian Moore is the left tackle and Austin Seravel is the right guard when they. When they line up to play Ball State. I think Ian's ready. I thought he showed that last year, both in the Purdue game and especially in the Miami game, like a really tough spot taken over for Austin Saraval after he. He rolled his ankle. I kind of think he should have played more last year. But can't do anything about that now. But, but in his third year, I truly, he's like, he's, he's ready to be the team's left tackle and I think he will start game one.

[A]

Okay, I agree with Bill. I'm only at 75. I'm not quite ready to go all the way to 95. But I'm curious to see where, you know, Bill and I have talked about this. Dylan, where are you on this?

[B]

I put it at 80. Ian Moore. I'm all in on Ian Moore, the player. I think we, I saw all I needed to see last year at Purdue when he got the start and certainly being thrust into that cotton ball in that situation and the way he handled himself. I'm all in on Ian Moore being the best tackle on that team. And the idea that you can insert Ian Moore into that lineup and also clean up the right guard spot by moving Austin Searville back to there. I think that just makes so much sense for the offensive line. And if you want to talk about putting your best five out there, Austin Sierra Belt at the right guard spot and Ian Moore starting at left tackle is certainly, in my opinion, the way to do that. I only put it at 80 because there's just a lot that can happen between now and, you know, when you play ball state. So 80 was about as certain as I could be just with still, you know, a lot of time still to go. But I'm all in on Ian Moore. I think he's going to be a, a really good player for Ohio State. I think it just again, makes so much sense moving Austin back to right guard and cleaning up that spot. That was a complete, you know, issue for Ohio State really, throughout last year.

[C]

So.

[A]

All right, Rabinowitz, where are you on this?

[C]

I think I'll be the contrarian here to some degree. I, I say Sarah Bell at 55 only because, because he did it last year. He did it a pretty high level. It's the premier position on the defense, on the offensive line. And you know, Josh Padilla I think would be certainly a pretty good option at right guard. He's out this spring. And so I, I, especially if they get the start of the season, they may say, let's stick with what we know and plug in, whether it's Padilla or, or gave in Sickle or whoever it might be and have one new starter essentially, or one news, one spot. That's a new starter set of two. I only want 55 because I agree with you in terms of Ian Morris Potential and the way he played last year, unlimited duty. So I wouldn't be at all surprised if that's the case. But I think that coaches tend to be pretty conservative and moving left tackles, you know, especially a veteran left tackle to a different spot. You know, again, basically a coin flip for me. But I'm much more. I think it's a much greater possibility than some people are thinking.

[A]

Okay, that's good because I didn't know if we were in Ian Moore bubble here, right. That, like, I was really curious to get your guys on this and that. That Dylan's more with us and Bill's on the other side. I think both are very possible. The. That. That Bill that you bring up that is so interesting. Is it. What if this is really a competition between, like, Josh Padilla and Ian Moore that, like, they're fine with. With Sarah Belt at either spot, but what if Josh Padilla comes out in August and they're like, we can't keep Josh Padilla off the field. This guy's. This guy.

[C]

There were people at the end of 24 when Seth McLaughlin got hurt that thought, just put Seth, just put Josh Padilla center and refine. I had people inside telling me that's what they thought they should do. You know, Carson Hinsman was playing left guard at the time. You know, leave him there, put Padilla. So I think they feel very highly about Padilla. I think he showed some stuff last year before he got hurt. He missed, you know, a decent amount of time last year and, and Sarahville played well left tackle. And I just think that coaches are really wary about. About mess around with that position, I think.

[A]

Sorry, go ahead, Dylan.

[B]

I just want to add a couple things real quick. One, what Bill Andis said about Philip Daniels is absolutely true. I know I have a lot of High State fans who will talk to me about the offensive line and they say, well, why wouldn't you just put Ian Moore at right tackle and slide Philip Daniels down to right guard? And from all accounts, it sounds like everything that we're hearing and have been told, like, they want Philip Daniels, they think he's a tackle, he's going to stay at right tackle. So I think people need to kind of dismiss that notion or that idea that they could put Ian Moore a tackle at right tackle and slide Philip Daniels down the car. I don't. I just don't think that's going to happen. And then to your question, that's a very fair point about, you know, Josh Padilla is a, you know, he's a real player. Obviously he was, he was a guy. If they were going to make a move at right guard last year with Tegra, like it was going to be Josh Padilla, then he got hurt and that, you know, threw everything off. So that's a fair question about if it's really a, you know, if coming down. Well, you have two guys you can't keep off the field. Ian more in Josh, but he and only one of them are going to play. And how that plays out is very interesting. So I guess it really is just a matter of whose stock are you buying more. And I think Ian Moore has potential for, you know, first round draft pick, you know, at tackle. So I think they find a way to get that in there.

[A]

That is one of like Bill, could that, like Landis, could that be it? That it's really, it's in the end, if Ian Moore is not the left tackle, it's not about Ian Moore. It's about Josh Padilla. Josh Padilla, who's a year older than Ian Moore, who's kind of right, like, has been right, as Ravenowitz said, has been right there for a while and is a little out of sight, out of mind right now. But if he comes out and looks like the best lineman on the team in August, then what do you do?

[D]

I'm not sure what they do. It's, it's a. It's an excellent point to bring up because we do this a lot in the spring. Like, guys start to flash and position battles happen with players on the sideline and you just sort of forget about the guys on the sideline. It's helping a little bit of linebacker too with like Riley Pettigon coming out this week. You have to remember that those guys are kind of waiting to get their shot at it once summer rolls around. So I do think it's going to be Ian Moore versus Josh Padilla. I like a healthy Josh Padilla, to me is just a better option than Gabe Van Sickle, for instance. And I think Ian Moore is a better offensive lineman right now than Gabe Van Sickle is. So I thought Ian played better than Josh did last year and like both got limited run, both played about the same number of snaps or two different positions. So maybe you shouldn't compare them as much. I guess the one thing that would give me a little pause on like Ian Moore playing left tackle definitely is the fact that Ryan Day said they have been letting him play some guard and they view him as a guy who's got some versatility. So if you just go into the season thinking, we have six, five and six, or Ian Moore and Josh Padilla. We'll just play them both at right guard and then the tackle stay the same. I guess I could see that happening, too, but I still. I don't know. I still feel pretty strongly that anymore is going to be the left tackle. And I think Padilla will play. I. I don't know exactly how that'll work. I think he can play either guard spot. He can obviously play center. Maybe you can rotate a little bit there depending on. On the matchups. Maybe you can do some six offensive lineman packages in. In lieu of not having a will, cast Marik as your good, really good blocking tight end. So maybe that gets a guy like Josh on the field, too. But he's in a weird spot because he's in his fourth year, he's never started, and he's got one more year left after this. So I give him credit for sticking through with it, but I don't. I don't know that it's a guarantee that he's gonna, you know, be a guy who's playing 400 snaps this year.

[A]

It's like he's been sort of starter quality for, like, for two years, I think. Yeah.

[D]

Two and a half. Yeah.

[A]

Third year of that. And if he's not a starter yet, it is kind of an interesting spot. And this is how this works. Obviously.

[D]

What are they going to do?

[A]

They have too many good players and then, like, something happens.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And it. And it reveals itself and it's like, oh, well, it's good they have six linemen they believe in because one of them's not here right now. And so, you know, you never wish that to happen, but certainly something like that could come up. But I think that's a good point by Rabinowitz backed us off. Maybe like the sure thing. Ian Moore a little bit. Just because. And I think it's a difference between. I think what Dylan and Landis and I are saying is we believe Ian Moore is ready for that. But that might not be the only conversation because what if Josh Padilla is just as ready and then. Then what Landis is saying, well, then actually if we're going to do that, we'll have those both at right guard. And so it's a good discussion. So we have four people on the show. Question number four. Who should be Ohio State's second most explosive offensive player this season besides Jeremiah Smith? So Jeremiah Smith is his own thing. This explosion discussion that I brought up before, when we think About. And again, it doesn't, we don't just have to measure yards after contact, whatever. It's like, like it's more like what your eyes tell you, man. That guy, the guy behind Jeremiah Smith, that should be the most like dangerous guy with the ball in his hand in 20, 26 is. I guess maybe I'll say Devin McEwen, but I think that might be what Dylan's gonna say. So Dylan, who do you say?

[B]

So I went back and forth here. I am going to say Devin McCune. I think that I was just. If you asked me this question before Saturday when we were sitting there watching practice, maybe I have a different answer. But after watching Saturday, I, I believe that Devin McCune, his ability to get the ball in his hands underneath and operate in space, the speeds real. We saw that. I will, I will pick that. I was very close. I was very close to picking Legend Bay because I am, I, I am all in on the Legend Bay hype. A little Roosters powwow that we have with the coaching staff. The conversations that we are not allowed to talk about publicly, but the conversations that have there talking to people about Legend Bay, you know, they believe that he's the real deal within that room or within the Woody. And so I have every reason to believe that he's going to find his way onto the field this year and, and just the way that they're going to be able to use him in the versatility there and we know what kind of athlete he is. Like, I have, I have a lot of faith that Legend Bay is going to be a significant weapon for Ohio State offensively this year. Assuming he can stay healthy. Obviously he has to get him back on the practice field and prove that he can be trusted in the other things that you know matters, whether it be in path protection or holding on the football, all those things. But, but assuming he does that, then come and fall camp. I think he's going to be a real weapon for Ohio State. With all that being said, I still going to pick Devin McCune because I, because I think that that's probably the safer bet right now.

[A]

Okay, Rabinowitz, who's your pick?

[C]

Well, I, I, I mean we haven't seen Legend Bay much. Right. We just haven't seen him. So we hear about him. I think they hope he could be like a Malachi Tony for Miami kind of player. Right? I mean that kind of gadget, do everything put them in different spots kind of thing. I'm gonna go Bo Jackson because he was really close to becoming that last. To being that last year. And, and, you know, was this, Dylan said, got tripped up, you know, way too often. Ankle tackles, she's, you know, that kind of stuff. I think that they worked on that. I'm not sure how much you can actually work on that. I think you kind of have it or you don't, or maybe get a little stronger or maybe a little bit technique, but I think some guys just have it, right. I mean, you're never going to teach Barry Sanders how to be Barry Sanders. It's just, you know, you're just gifted that way. I think he's a really gifted player. You know, you remember he was a freshman last year and was the starting running back at Ohio State. Had a good year. He did have a very good year. It just, you know, a thousand yards. How many times did we say, oh my God, he was that close? Right. And so if he can get over that hurdle with whatever, then I think he can be that guy. And if he is, boy, that makes this offense so much better. If you give him a pitch and it's a 40 yard gain instead of a 12 yard gain, boy, what a difference that makes.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

All right, Landis, what do you got?

[D]

Legend Bay, right. Ryan Day asked about explosive plays and if he's seen any on Monday, said, I've seen some in the past game, the run game, not so much. But that's because legend hasn't been out there. Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

Ryan Day thinks it's going to be legend.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

So I think it's going to be legendary. Right. And like, it's not. I think the, the position that he's going to play, which is, I think probably mostly running back with a little bit of, of hybrid receiver in there. I don't think there's a tremendous learning curve there for a young player. I don't think they're going to be asking him to run the whole route tree. I think they're going to get him the ball as, as far as quickly as possible and let him go to work, and he's going to turn a lot of short stuff into pretty explosive plays. So I do think I, I think Dylan's right that McEwen's probably the safe pick, decent yards after the catch production in his career. Definitely looks like he has another gear after he gets the ball in his hands. I think you could say the same about Kyle Parker, but his, his sample size is smaller compared to McEwen, so I would say McEwen over Parker, but I, I also, I just, I think it's going to be legend. Like, I don't know, Bill just said, like, Bo Jackson was a freshman last year. He rushed for a thousand yards. Freshmen can do this, especially at that position. So like, I don't think it's, it's putting any kind of undue or unearned expectations on, on legend either. So Ryan Day thinks he's the poor man's Tyree kill. Let's see it.

[A]

No, Brandon, in his conversation, in this explosion thing, it's, it's such an interesting, like in this is he's a great leader. He really matters in that room. He does a lot of things that you want, but he didn't have that last year and he knows it. And he talked about it the minute we were, we had an interview session with him this spring and he's talked about what he did in the weight room and he was honored for that. And like all of that off season work was in the pursuit of being more explosive when he gets the ball in his hands. But is, I don't know, Dylan, is everybody kind of at a, like, we'll, we'll believe it when we see it kind of thing with, with Brandon Ennis or do we think it's there?

[B]

I'm, I'm not. Because it seemed like for whatever reason, obviously it wasn't intentional. But for whatever reason, some of Julian's worst misses last year were with Brandon Ennis down the field open and he just didn't find him or couldn't get the ball to him. So I'm not out on Brandon Ennis at all. I mean, okay, am I going to put Brandon in the explosive category? I'm not sure I'll ever get to that point. But I think there are bigger things ahead for Brandon Ennis and I think there's, there's a, there's an opportunity for explosive plays out of him. Now do I think it's more so, you know, just being open down the field then like yards after the catch? Yeah, I think it's more of that. I don't think bi is going to be a big, you know, yards of the catch guy necessarily, but I think there's, there are more explosive plays there for sure. And there were opportunities for it last year and it wasn't through any fault of Brandon Ennis. That didn't happen.

[C]

Okay. Okay.

[A]

All right, let's go to our final question. We're going to get off football just for a second. The Michigan Wolverines won the men's basketball national championship on Monday night. First men's basketball national championship for the Big Ten since Michigan State in 2000, first time ever that the Big Ten has had the national champion in football, men's basketball, and women's basketball at the same time. And they also have, like, wrestling, they have field hockey, they have women's ice hockey. They're going for men's ice hockey right now.

[D]

There's two in the frozen four, and the number one baseball team in the country is ucla.

[A]

So, you know, I mean, he was

[B]

just itching for this. Yeah, he's gonna find a way to get.

[A]

There's so much blood on this sword because the Big Ten has been running through the SEC in every sport. And it's an interesting thing. Like, I, you know, this is an Ohio State show for Ohio State fans. It's not exactly like, hey, the Big Ten finally won a basketball championship for the men. Should Ohio State fans be so excited for the Big Ten? We get it. That's not where Ohio State fans are when Michigan wins a basketball national title. So, Dylan, my. Our question about this is sort of from an Ohio State fan perspective, what word would you use to describe how Ohio State fans should be thinking or feeling or watching from afar as the Michigan Wolverines celebrated winning at all?

[B]

I mean, there are so many words you could throw out there. They're all pretty much the same thing. I mean, resentment, envy, jealousy, you name it. Like, they all. They all exist. I. I guess I would probably settle on resentment. Just sitting there watching that and stewing last night watching them, you know, Michigan finish the deal on what, you know, Ohio State fans just assume that if Ohio State would have ultimately hired Dusty May, like, they didn't. That would have been them in that situation last year. And there was more to it than just, you know, simply making that higher. He's a great coach, don't get me wrong. But there's more to it than that. But I certain, I. I can understand the resentment last night watching that feeling like, you know, Ohio State really dropped the ball and missed an opportunity to get a great young coach in there. But I also. I was close to saying, you know, hopeful as my word as well, because it just goes to show you in the. In this landscape of college sports and in college basketball, how quickly you can put a roster together that's capable of going and not just winning a national title, but dominating college basketball. Like, you know.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm not. That's not discrediting Michigan at all. Like, you know, good on them for, you know, the way they put that roster together. And it was good enough to go win a national title and again, dominate college basketball. So I'm not knocking Michigan on that. So there was an era of, like, you know, Ohio State fans, you know, if they're going to invest in the program, Ohio State fans, you know, should see that it can turn around that quickly. Now, whether you think Jake Diebler is the kind of guy that can take that roster and go win a national title is a whole nother conversation. And whether you're putting him on the same level as Dusty May is certainly a conversation of itself. But in terms of just having the roster to do it, you know, there was an era of, like, you know, hey, Ohio State can go have this. If they're willing to invest in it and spend the money, they can have that as well. They can be right in. In position to do that. And I personally am still not. I'm not out on Jake Diebler. So I think if you give him that kind of roster, that Ohio State can absolutely go, you know, make runs like that.

[A]

Rabinowitz, what's your word?

[C]

I would probably say envy. Just because anytime Michigan has success, Ohio State fans, it drives him crazy. You know, I do think it's a little different in basketball. I mean, it's not. The intensity of the rivalry is not the same in basketball. It's just different. And. And also, I think that most Ohio State fans would. Would agree, if not accept or want it to be this way, that there's probably more of a commitment in Michigan, at Michigan, to be, you know, not just good, but great. I always say that Ohio State fans need the football team to win. They want the basketball team to win. I mean, their lives, like, aren't ruined if Ohio State basketball loses to Michigan or anyone else. And so. And the other thing is, look, they play in a. In a boondoggle of an arena. I mean, that is. I'm not saying it's going to prevent them from winning a national championship, but it's a. It's not a good arena. It's just not. And so it's probably harder to get, you know, everything. The atmosphere, maybe even the players. I don't know how big a deal that is to players, but, you know, you go to certain arenas and you go, oh, man, I can. I can see myself here. And, like, we can do something special. You go to the shot and you think. And so, again, that an arena doesn't preclude you from winning a national championship. But look, when's the last time Ohio State was at that level? It's been two decades, basically.

[B]

Right.

[C]

The Greg Odin Connelly years that they were back there a couple years was the 2010 year. They were, you know, could have.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Right. So, you know, I don't think it's like watching Ohio State football fans, watching Michigan win the national championship in 23. I don't. That was like, especially with the Cotter Stallion stuff came out, you know, that was like anger and like just, just fury, you know, I don't think it's like that. I think it's like. And a little bit of what Dylan said. Yeah. If they can do it, why can't we? And that's like Indiana with everybody in college football. Right. If Indiana went, every program in the country goes, well, we, why can't we? But, you know, I think Roddy Gale being a part of that team, you know, that was, that probably didn't sit well with some people. But. Yeah, I don't think Ohio State fans like went to bed steaming last night like they probably did in 23 when the football team won national championship. But I think there was probably that feeling. Well, you know, well, we won the national. Last national championship in football and now they won on one in basketball. Yeah.

[A]

Landis, what'd you think?

[D]

I, I want to say, like, propulsive. That's probably too strong. But, but the reason I say that is because I felt like Michigan winning the national title in football in 2023 very quickly got Ohio State football to get its stuff together to financially invest in the roster in the way that it needed to to win a national championship. And football and basketball aren't the same. The rivalry is not the same in basketball as it is in football. I understand all of that, but people don't like when Michigan's good and Ohio State's not. So I, I wonder what this might do for Ohio State's basketball roster. Fundraising. I think Dylan makes a good point about like the. Even with all that, are you sure you still have the right coach? We'll see. He's going to get a shot to do this. But I'm interested now to see what Ohio State's able to do transfer portal wise over these next two weeks and if there's any different level of commitment because they just watched the team that they still view as their chief rival. I know Jake Diebler does win a national championship by investing heavily in the transfer portal. So I, you know, I imagine it. It sucks to be an Ohio State fan, watch Michigan win anything, but maybe there could be lessons learned from that or, or a way to, to galvanize some people to make Ohio State better because they're upset about it, too.

[A]

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[B]

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[C]

And that's a word.

[B]

It is.

[A]

Now the host gets to make up words. So both. So Dusty May and Kurt Signetti were hired four months apart. They both took over programs that won 25 of their games the year before. Michigan basketball was 8 and 24. Indiana football is 3 and 9. And they both won national titles in year two. And they both kicked butt. Like, it's. It's like they didn't, like, oh, they didn't get hot in the tournament. It's like Michigan. Michigan basketball was the best team all year. And like, if you really had your eyes open, as good as Ohio State was, like, Indiana was as good as Ohio State all of last year. They didn't sneak up on anybody. They went and did it near to immediate turnaround. And the reason why I think that matters for Ohio State fans is as much as, of course, resources and investment. That matters a lot in this world. But, man, like, if you've got a great coach, you got a chance, like, overnight, and you have to. Because sometimes the great coach, it's like, we're not going to go get Dusty May and then cheap out on basketball. We're not gonna. If Kurt Signetti's coming, Kurt Signetti is telling everybody, listen, man, like, I'm not coming unless we're doing this or whatever, right? Sometimes the. The act of hiring the. The great coach that's only coming to your place if they think the investment is going to be there, becomes a thing that drives your program. And so I think when it's. It's not just Dusty, man, Kurt Signetti, It's. It's Ben McCollum at Iowa, right? It's like TJ Otzelberg has been at Iowa State longer, but, like, they were awful and they hired him and they got good right away, right? There's, you know, Hoiberg took a little bit of the time at Nebraska, but it's like, you really can do it. And so the thing that I. That I've really been thinking about is if you watch any of this, if you have a coach, you're fine. So, like, Ohio State football fans don't look at Kurt Signetti and are not envious of Indiana for having Kurt Signetti because they have Ryan Day. But, man, when you see these programs where a dude who had won somewhere or really had some juice took a step up and turned it in a nanosecond, God, it makes you look within and say, do we have that. Do we think like, we have the ability to do that same kind of thing? Is it just about investment or. I wonder sometimes are what Dusty May and yes, Michigan built a whole new roster. They brought in a lot of guys. They spent a lot of money. But I'm not so sure that some of this stuff is not just evidence that a single person, one coach, can transform almost anybody overnight if there's a. A reasonable amount of investment and you have the right person. And then that would make you think, do we have the right person?

[B]

I. Sorry, can I jump in real quick? Yeah, I'm. I'm terrified for Ohio State fans. What might happen down at Cincinnati with Jared Calhoun going down there after what he did at Utah State, if they have the financial backing, the roster construction to match what I think he is the coach and what he might do very quickly down in Cincinnati for Ohio State fans to see that happen down in Cincinnati while Ohio State's still kind of, you know, floundering around as a program, man, that could be a really, really tough site. You know, on the heels of Michigan, we international title as well as we're sitting here talking about. So I think that was a very good hire for Cincinnati and again at the backings there financially to build the roster within. I mean, they could. They could have a quick turnaround and be again, the preeminent program in the state of Ohio, which they think they are.

[D]

So isn't he just the next Ohio State coach if this doesn't work with Deepler? Well, like, I almost think it's good that he went to Cincinnati. He's 90 minutes down the road. I mean, you need a new coach there.

[B]

Fair question, you know, I guess. And maybe in this new era of, you know, you know, nil and all these things, again, Cincinnati fans, they think of their program as the preeminent basketball program in the state of Ohio. Is it? And. And I guess really the answer to that question for me is if it's if people want to assume it's Ohio State, that's only because of the financial backing that would be in place, you know, to make Ohio State Tech. Because if it's not, then, then is Cincinnati not the preeminent basketball program in

[C]

the state of Ohio?

[B]

Would he just leave? Would he leave there?

[D]

He could be, yeah, I think it definitely could be.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I mean I'm make no bones about being, you know, like, oh, I see basketball expert or not. But I think it is fair to say that Diebler was a safe conservative hire by Ross Bjork. I mean he certainly could have had, you know, cast a wider.

[D]

That's a nice way to say lazy.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, that's, you know, again, I, I'm not, you know, gonna pretend like I'm a basketball expert or you're Ohio State football bat or Ohio State basketball expert. But the difference between football and basketball obviously is that in football, Ohio State's king of the state, there's no competition since they, they don't go head to head with recruiting and, and you know, lose to Cincinnati. You know, in basketball it's different. I mean you have, this is a, in some ways a much deeper basketball state. I mean you have Cincinnati, you have Xavier. That wasn't very good this year, but is generally good. You know, Dayton has its moments. You know, we saw what happened with Miami this year. You know, that came out of nowhere. So you could make the case that a lot of years Ohio State's not even close to being the best program in the state. And, and some of that is because there's commitment to basketball elsewhere in Cincinnati, Dayton and you know, again, Miami, which is can do. I mean, I've been to Millette hall if you've ever been there. It's like it doesn't even feel like a basketball arena. I mean I've been there once and it felt like I was in like a library almost. It's just a weird, weird place to watch basketball. And they went undefeated in the regular season. You know, Kent State, Akan, you know, there are a lot of good programs in this state and so I think Ohio State gets the cream of the crop. If there's a five star guy in Ohio, they're certainly more likely to get them than any other program them. But it's not, it's not like football where they dominate the state. And, and again, some of that is just commitment. Like I said, the, the need versus want thing, I, I don't think Ohio State basketball fan, I don't think there are tons of absolutely passionate Ohio State basketball fans. How many Bass. Ohio basketball fans you think care more about Ohio State basketball winning than Ohio State football winning? What percentage?

[B]

I didn't want to. I just wanted to say this real quick because I feel like everybody makes. You have to draw lines in the sand with, you know, how you feel about the basketball program and how you feel about Jake. I still believe that Jake Diebler deserves to coach this basketball team this upcoming season. Because I've always thought the first thing to holding this program back was the financial investment and having the roster to actually go out and compete at the level that people expect them to compete at. So assuming Ohio State's going to do that this off season, I want to see what Jake Dealer does with that kind of roster because I'm not out on Jake Dealer yet. If it doesn't go well, by all means, move on. But, but I still think that give Jake Dibler the kind of roster that is. Is capable of competing in the upper third of the Big Ten. And, and, and I think Ohio State, you know, might be okay with Jake Diebler.

[A]

I do. You know, it's not the first time that, that people have won national titles in year two. Jim Trestle won a year a national title in year two at Ohio State. Urban Meyer won a national title in, in year two at Florida.

[C]

Right.

[A]

Like, but a lot of those, sometimes back in that day, it would be like, did you have a coach who came in and took over for somebody who recruited well but didn't have the culture or didn't have the scheme to elevate that this, in this era, you just can flip the whole thing that there was nothing at Indiana and Chris Nettie flipped it immediately. Now, Michigan certainly had more, but they were in trouble after Juwan Howard. They could, they were, they could have been in no man's land and instead they, they flip it immediately. Because you don't have to. Well, I got to get a couple recruiting classes and get my guys in and then whatever, and we'll build up and then by year three, four or five will really reflect this new coach? No, you can reflect the new coach immediately. Indiana football reflected Kurt Signetti immediately. Michigan basketball reflects Dusty May immediately. So I don't know as much as I, I'm sort of wondering about that. Landis. Like, is it as we get to this point where you have to invest, but also does it. Coaching always matters, but does it put even more of a spotlight on it? Like, you need somebody special, because if you have somebody special, you can get everything lined up for that person to win right away. You don't have to wait. You can immediately cash in your investment on a great hire.

[D]

Yeah, I think. I think. I think that's right. And I think it's more true in basketball than it is in football. Like. Like Signetti, I think, is a slight outlier in football. There are more examples, I think, of fast turnarounds like this in men's college basketball, which is why the decision to not go and find a experienced head coach remains puzzling for Ohio State, or someone who has experience building a roster and working with transfers and understanding everything it takes to get a roster with eight new players to gel immediately so that you can win. And that's not. Again, like Dylan said, like, I think there's a chance that Jake Diebler can figure that out, but I don't know if Ohio State should be living in the world of.

[A]

Of.

[D]

Of chances. Right. I think you should be going out and finding someone who's shown an ability to do it now this past season. I think Jake. Jake has earned the opportunity to try to do it this year, and we'll see what happens. But it goes back to the start of it for me. Like, Ohio State is. Is in this position because it chose not to understand the landscape of the entire sport when they had to replace Chris Holtman. And it's taken them two years to get to this point where, like, okay, they're back in the tournament. That's great. But Ohio State basketball should probably be something more than that. And, and we'll see if they can get there. And meanwhile, there are some programs in the Big Ten that seem to be elevating themselves. And I don't. I don't know where exactly Ohio State fits in that pecking order right now.

[A]

Well, for any Ohio State fans who are a little upset today about the.

[D]

The.

[A]

Their rival winning the men's basketball national championship, again, just try to find some solace in the fact that the SEC sucks at everything. Can you imagine the meetings. The meetings. The meetings that Greg Sankey is calling people to have? Like, what new sport can we invent? Can the SEC try to dominate Ultimate Frisbee or something? Like, where can. Where is there left to turn? I guess baseball season. But you said, who's the number one team

[D]

competitive barbecuing.

[C]

Yeah, Golf. Cornhole.

[D]

Oh, yeah, golf.

[A]

It just meets more. All right. All right. Thanks to you guys for joining us here on around the Shoe. We'd like to talk Ohio State football with people who know what's up. So, Dylan, again, Remind the people where they can find you and anything they should be looking for from you. Coming up here, you can find my

[B]

stuff at Del Gazette d e l gazette.com and certainly posting on Twitter at Dylan Davis, 56. Not sure what's coming up next. Kind of just going with what we, what we have. Definitely, probably going to do something with the cornerback room. I asked Ryan about the cornerbacks yesterday when we were at the Woody. Then we get Tim Walton tomorrow, I believe. Right. With some cornerbacks. So probably put some together on that. Just, just a little throw it out there. Like Dominic Kelly. Looks fantastic, guys. So bucket fans watching, remember that name because I think he might be a real factor in that.

[A]

Real deal. And what, uh, what can people be looking forward to from you? Bill Rabinowitz

[C]

remains to be seen. Have to go to my stuff.

[B]

Nothing for free.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

No books.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, you know, we get, we get, we get our level tomorrow. I can ask him about, you know, when you were a toddler.

[A]

Bill is. Bill is writing a 300 page book about spring football at Ohio State and what the last 15 practices have been like.

[C]

Yeah, I am not writing that. I have no plans to write another book. Okay, we'll see. You never know. You never know. I didn't plan any of the other ones. So who knows?

[B]

Until Ohio State basketball wins that national title next year. Wow.

[C]

I will not be riding that one.

[A]

Okay, Bill Andis, what do we have going on over at the. The Bill and Doug substack?

[D]

I had a story go up today where I dug into like offensive line continuity across college football, both like returning percentage of snaps and how many snaps your starting five is projected to have this year, how Ohio State stacks up in that and what that has meant sort of historically. And by historically, I mostly mean like the last two or three years in terms of winning a national championship. I thought there was some interesting stuff in there about where, where Ohio State stands. So that is up on the site right now. And then Wednesday, you and I are going to do a big explosive plays podcast for our subscribers and I think it'll be pretty fun.

[A]

Draft the most explosive players that we've covered here at Ohio State and try to figure out again, sort of what we're talking about today, who's going to be next. All right, thanks as always to the people who lend their time and expertise to us on around the Shoe. So thanks to Dylan Davis. Thanks to Bill Rabinowitz. On behalf of Bill landis, I'm Doug LeMarice. And that was around the Shoe on the Bill and Doug Show.