Ohio State throws all over Wisconsin, Julian Sayin has huge day in 34-0 win: Live Postgame Show

Summary

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The Bill and Doug Show – Ohio State Football Talk:

Episode: Ohio State throws all over Wisconsin, Julian Sayin has huge day in 34–0 win
Date: October 19, 2025
Hosts: Doug Lesmerises and Bill Landis
Podcast: Blue Wire

Brief Overview

Doug and Bill break down Ohio State’s dominant 34–0 victory over Wisconsin in a live postgame show. With Ohio State entering a new phase as clear national champions and rivals slipping, the episode focuses on the Buckeyes’ high-flying passing attack, quarterback Julian Sayin’s development, Carnell Tate’s emergence, the current state of the run game, special teams concerns, and big picture program comparisons. The hosts balance praise, tactical analysis, and fan-focused insight, frequently referencing questions and feedback from their loyal listeners.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ohio State’s Statement Win and the National Landscape

• Ohio State a Class Apart: Combination of OSU’s dominance and upsets across the country (Miami/OR/TTU losses) signal it’s “Ohio State and everybody else” in college football now.
  • “We are 100% officially in the Ohio State and everybody else portion of the college football season.” — Doug (05:45)
• Comparative Dominance:
  • OSU outgained Wisconsin 491–144, essentially 500–70 before the Badgers’ final drive.
  • Other top teams (Oregon, Miami) slip, while Indiana’s resume is acknowledged but not seen as equal in talent.

2. Julian Sayin’s Star Turn

• Career Day:
  • (04:21) Official stats: 36/42, 394 yards, 4 TDs; added a strong QB sneak and designed run.
  • Hosts agree: This was “the full Sayin” — combination of poise, decisiveness, and willingness to “rip it.”
• Heisman Hype:
  • Now a trendy favorite: “This is a five-star quarterback for the number one team in the country. You know what is often a convincing Heisman case? The best player on the best team.” — Doug (10:00)
  • Landis: “I don’t know if the opponent keeps you from saying it, but I kinda thought it was his best game of the year.” (11:20)
• QB/Playcaller Synergy:
  • Felt like Sayin and the offense were mind-melded, with more RPOs and concepts that played to his strengths.
  • “It felt like the most mind-meldy, I guess, of quarterback/playcaller, what you see on the field so far this season.” — Bill (17:16)

3. Weapons on Offense: Carnell Tate & Jeremiah Smith

• Tate’s Emergence:
  • 6 receptions/111 yards/2 TDs on 7 targets.
  • Tate’s hands called “ridiculous”: “Does he have the best hands you’ve ever seen on an Ohio State receiver?” — Doug (13:29) / “Yeah.” — Bill (13:31)
  • Described as deceptively casual but technically perfect: “Like he’s going along, then it’s a nanosecond of perfect technique and it’s over.” — Doug (13:32)
• Smith’s Steady Threat:
  • 9 catches, 97 yards, 13 targets.
  • Safe, mutually complementary dynamic — neither being force-fed, both taking advantage of coverage.

4. Offensive Philosophy: More Passing, Less “Balance”

• Pass-Heavy Game Plan:
  • Early: 35 offensive plays, 27 were called passes (19:21).
  • Hosts reject old Urban Meyer “balance” ideal (250 run/250 pass): “Balance is not run-pass… It’s distribution, it’s how you get the ball to all your weapons.” — Doug (22:00)
• Philosophical Shift?
  • Both believe this game could signal a new normal for OSU — 65–70% pass, 30–35% run — especially in big games.
  • Bill: “I’ll put my foot in the bear trap and say this is the first step in that direction.” (25:42)
• RPO Evolution:
  • Noted heavier reliance on RPOs than past Ryan Day years. This boosts flexibility and lets OSU lean into passing as a default, not an afterthought.

5. Concerns: Offensive Line and Run Game

• Right Side Issues:
  • Right tackle/guard identified as a persistent issue, to be further addressed on Sunday Soundoff.
• Running Back Hierarchy:
  • Bo Jackson (10 carries, 26 yds; 5 catches for 57 yds) and Isaiah West (9 carries, 54 yds) are the guys now, with CJ Donaldson as short-yardage specialist.
  • “Is Ohio State’s running back stable two true freshmen?” “Yeah, it kind of feels that way.” — Doug & Bill (34:28)
  • If OSU faces tough games vs. Michigan or playoff teams, expect tandem of Bo Jackson/Isaiah West to lead.
• Run Efficiency Still Lags:
  • Jackson carrying a heavy load but not breaking free; O-line’s best days seem behind them (Texas, Illinois, Wisconsin D-lines all posed trouble).

6. Special Teams: Ongoing Issues

• Field Goal Angst:
  • Jaden Fielding misses from 38 yards. Doug: “Every time he’s out there now, it’s like, okay…”
  • Bill: “I don’t think Ryan Day trusts his field goal kicker as far as he can throw him…” (41:33)
• Punt Return/Punt Coverage:
  • Lots of “loose” moments, including letting Wisconsin’s punter average 54 yards with no answers from OSU.
  • Hosts suggest discomfort permeates every special teams situation except coverage.

7. Defense: Consistency and Maturity

• Shutout & Defensive Depth:
  • Complete dominance; Wisconsin had no answers; OSU rotated liberally without losing dominance.
• Player Development:
  • Kenyatta Jackson’s evolution — conversation with coach Matt Patricia signals a mature balance of duty and personal growth. “That’s good football. That’s mature football that has a chance to pay off down the line.” — Doug (52:48)
• Secondary Depth:
  • Lorenzo Styles out; no major issues. Freshmen like Matthews and Sanchez getting reps.
• Big Picture:
  • “Ohio State makes it look easy. Football is actually as hard as Wisconsin made it look. When Ohio State rolls, it is all the more to be impressed by.” — Doug (56:06)

8. Broadcast Notes / National Perception

• TV Crews Bored:
  • Observed that CBS crew seemed indifferent; “Do you think broadcasters don’t like calling Ohio State games because they’re too good?” — Doug (59:05)
• Ohio State “Boring Good”?
  • Doug: “This is not boring good. This is obliteration with style, and it makes the flaws all the more tolerable.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (Timestamps)

• On OSU’s National Standing
  • “We are 100% officially in the Ohio State and everybody else portion of the college football season.” — Doug (05:45)
• On Sayin’s Development
  • “I kind of thought it was his best game of the year.” — Bill (11:20)
  • “That was the rippiest Sayin we’ve seen, and it still didn’t include any mistakes... This was the most dangerous version of Ohio State.” — Doug (11:32)
• On Philosophy Change
  • “Nobody—never—have we had a conversation: ‘should they be 65% pass, 35% run?’ But you watch a game like this and the answer is yes.” — Doug (25:42)
• On Carnell Tate
  • “Does he have the best hands you’ve ever seen on an Ohio State receiver?” — Doug (13:29)
• On Running Backs
  • “Is Ohio State’s running back stable two true freshmen? …Yeah, it kind of feels that way.” — Doug & Bill (34:28)
• On Special Teams Woes
  • “I don’t think Ryan Day trusts his field goal kicker as far as he can throw him.” — Bill (41:33)
• On Kenyatta Jackson’s Growth
  • “That’s good football. That’s mature football that has a chance to pay off down the line.” — Doug (52:48)
• On National Perception
  • “I don’t know what Ohio State can do about it, but it is a weird spot…to have the broadcasters constantly be like, ‘well, your team is really good.’” — Doug (60:39)

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Important Timestamps for Segments

• 02:00 — Wisconsin’s struggles, OSU’s early game plan
• 04:20 — Correct Ohio State stat line, O-line talk
• 05:45 — “It’s Ohio State and everybody else”
• 11:20 — Sayin’s performance breakdown
• 13:29 — Carnell Tate hands discussion
• 22:00 — OSU’s offensive “balance” redefined
• 25:42 — Is this the new normal for OSU’s offense?
• 34:28 — True freshman running backs take over
• 41:33 — Kicking game & special teams anxiety
• 52:48 — Kenyatta Jackson’s mature approach
• 56:06 — “Ohio State makes football look easy” reflection
• 59:05 — National broadcasters & boring good
• 63:21 — O-line right side concerns
• 65:54 — Big picture praise and SEC comparisons

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Summary & Takeaways

• Ohio State’s blowout of Wisconsin, combined with losses by other contenders, underlines their position at the top of college football.
• Julian Sayin’s growth, especially his aggressiveness and comfort in the offense, headlined the win and points toward a pass-heavy philosophy becoming the new standard.
• Carnell Tate’s hands and emergence give OSU frightening offensive depth alongside Jeremiah Smith.
• There are concerns with the right side of the O-line, ongoing run game efficiency, and special teams, plus the looming need to see the defense versus an elite offense.
• The show blends stat-driven analysis, schematic discussion, and Buckeye fan therapy, never shying from flaws, but reveling in another authoritative win.

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For any fan wanting an in-depth and authentic recap, this episode is an essential primer on not just the Wisconsin game, but where Ohio State—and the national scene—is headed at midseason 2025.

Transcript

[Doug Lesmerises]

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[Bill Landis]

Yeah, it's pretty bad. I will say this though. I thought he was going to kick the field goal at the end to try to save face. Shout out to him for not doing it.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Do you think it's actually better to save face by not saving face? Like just abandon your face? Because saving face, people be like, oh man, you're saving face in a meaningless way.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, they would have got booed if they put. I mean they were already getting booed but they would have got booed even Louder. Had they said the. The field goal team out there? No, it's bad. We knew it was bad. I think we said in the pregame, they have Oregon next week, and then they're off. My. My hunch is that Luke coaches the Oregon game and he's done after that, but we'll see a second straight shutout. They could do it after this one, too.

[Doug Lesmerises]

All right. Ohio State throws for 349 yards in this one. Julian saying, 30 of 38, three touchdowns, no picks. Jeremiah Smith, eight catches on 14. No. On 11 targets. Eight catches on 11 targets for 71 yards for Jeremiah Smith, six catches on seven targets for 111 yards. And two touchdowns for Carnell Tate. Bo Jackson, check down. King, five catches on five targets for 57 yards max. Claire, five catches on five targets for 29 yards overall. Ohio State winds up with 20 rushes and 38 passes. Landis, they came up and moved right down the field to start the game, throwing the ball in every play except one. And, like, the running play wasn't great, right? Let me ask you this. Could Ohio State beat a good team with zero rushing attempts, throwing the ball on every single play in a game, weather permitting?

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I think they could.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah, there is. I think a lot of people understand this because we have very educated, dedicated, loyal Ohio State fans here. Balance in offense does not mean run pass. Balance does not mean. Urban Meyer would get into this sometimes, right? Urban Meyer. Sometimes he would call out 250. 250. Would he not? 250 pass yards. 250 rushing yards as, like, perfection. Yep.

[Bill Landis]

All the time.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah. Yeah. So are those stats incorrect for saying. I'm looking at. Stat broadcast?

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. Stat, bro. So here's. Stat broadcast. Died, like, in the middle. Yeah. There's, like, nothing from the fourth quarter on staff broadcast. So I. I got you here because I was. I was really struggling.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Stat broadcast is like the. That's, like, official team stuff. Stat broadcast.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, it just. It just died. Like, there's nothing. From the fourth quarter. Nine officially 36 of 42 for 394 and four touchdowns. The receiving. Tate, six for 111 on seven targets, two touchdowns. Smith, nine for 97 on 13 targets. Jackson, 557. Claire, five for 29. Isaiah west, your leading rusher, nine carries for 54 yards.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Well, thanks for picking me up there. Stat broadcast. Who would have thought it? Thanks for pointing that. Who said that? Who said that? In the thing, somebody said, hey, you got the stats wrong. And I appreciate people, our educated, dedicated fans Being on top of it. I, I want to say this right off the top. We try to make this show instantaneous. We try to make this show not, not, not Pollyanna. But it's like Ohio State just beat somebody 34 to nothing. Like, let's celebrate the number one team in the country. We do a Sunday sound off for our Substack subscribers. I think the Sunday Soundoff might be 90 minutes on Tega Shibola. I don. It's right to do that right now. We see it. Do you see it? Landis See it.

[Bill Landis]

I hear it. We'll talk about it. I want to re. Watch some more of it over the weekend. But yeah, it's clearly the right side of the offensive line. I think in general is an issue for Ohio State right now. Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

So everybody, everybody sees it. Here are the two things that I, that I want to lead off with. One is this performance combined with Miami losing on Friday night, combined with Oregon losing to Indiana last week, combined with Texas Tech currently trailing Arizona State, I believe we are 100% officially in the Ohio State and everybody else portion of the college football season. What do you think of that?

[Bill Landis]

No, I think we are. And Ohio State is not without its flaws, clearly. And we're going to talk about them either today or tomorrow or the rest of this week with Ohio State being off. But yes, I think we are. We are very much in that position.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Okay. You and I have been. Because you and I have been talking like we think Ohio State, Oregon and Miami are the three best teams. Now those two teams lost and again, like Oregon losing Indiana. Indiana's there. But I like, I'm not ready to say like Indiana, even though I think you could argue that Indiana should be number one based on resume. I'm not ready to argue that Indiana is like stride for stride next to Ohio State. I would think at this point Indiana is leading the chase pack. But I don't, like, I don't.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, that's probably fair.

[Doug Lesmerises]

I don't think it's offensive to Indiana to couch it that way. And again, I just think if, if Ohio State was in the sec, was the defending national champ and was playing this way, ESPN would already be clearing space for the national championship parade and asking Nick Saban or Paul Feinbaum, do you want to be co grand marshals or who wants to do it? And so like, I just think you have to have it. Doesn't mean it's going to happen. But I looked at the odds this morning. Ohio State was 3 to 1 to win the national championship. I think Bama was 71 and everybody else was 10 to 1 or greater. And then to come out and do this, to post a shutout with your defense, to lean into what you do best on offense and what you do best is what is the best thing that any offense does in the country. To then lay this down, Landis, this is a dominant win that just reaffirms every possible thing you thought about Ohio State.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, because I. So they all gained Wisconsin 491 to 144. It was basically like 500 to 70 before the last drive of the game for Wisconsin. And like, there are things that happen in the game certainly that kept the. Kept Ohio State from having more than 34 points, but it wasn't like. I don't think any of those things are like, really being done to Ohio State. Right.

[Doug Lesmerises]

So.

[Bill Landis]

So, like that. That to me makes me comfortable couching this as. I mean, it's 34 nothing. Of course it's dominant. You can always dig into it and find more. Right. And find the areas that. That, oh, I say, needs to improve upon. But to go. It's not a. It's not a tricky spot because Wisconsin's bad. But like, if the last two weeks are like Ohio State's version of quote unquote, like, laying an egg or like not playing its best or like its version of a clunker, like, it's 34, 16 and 34 nothing. Let's not. Not too bad.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah, it's really. Man, the stats really are jacked up everywhere. What, was there a lightning strike? Did the person in the press box just go get a brat and never come back? What is happening?

[Bill Landis]

I'm not. I don't know. Like, yeah, it totally. It was bad. It was like, weird all game. Like, it was like, wrong, like, catching up to stuff. Like a one. At one point, Wisconsin completed a PAT or. Yeah, Wisconsin completed a pass. And the live stats said Julian saying completes the max Claire for negative 24 yards. So it was having a hard time.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Is this an ESPN SEC conspiracy? It's like, hey, don't do the stat. If we don't show the stats in Ohio State, nobody will know they're the overwhelming number one team in the country.

[Bill Landis]

Maybe. Yeah. CBS Sports has. Has the updated stats. They do.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Okay. Okay. So we believe we are at the point where it's Ohio State and everybody else is Julian saying the clear favorite to win the Heisman Trophy today.

[Bill Landis]

I don't know. Diego Pavia hit a Heisman pose.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Oh, Diego Pavia. Oh. Vanderbilt beat LSU and preseason Heisman favorite Garrett Nussmeier. By the way, thank you to all of college football for shoving Carson Beck and Garrett Nussmire down our throats for two consecutive preseasons. I can't wait to see where Garrett Nussmeier transfers next week.

[Bill Landis]

Next year, God could be next week.

[Doug Lesmerises]

So right on. Carson Beck, four picks on Friday night. So right on. Garrett Nessmeyer, Diego. Diego Pavia, 31 years old. Congratulations to 31 year old Diego Pavia for trying to worm his way into the Heisman race by beating the most fraudulent number 10 team in the country. This is a five star quarterback for the number one team in the country. You know what is often a convincing Heisman case? The best player on the best team. I, what did you think of Julian saying today?

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I thought, I thought he was really good. I thought he scrambled well. You got the quarterback sneak conversion by the way. Ohio State now 31 to 34 and quarterback 2019, not bad. He kept the ball in a designed quarterback which is like I thought he, you know it's always a thing where you can go back and like when I look at the all 22 on some of those checkdowns, will there be stuff down the field? Maybe. But these check downs are going for 1012 yards, right? So it's hard, it's hard to be too upset about them. I thought the throw to Carnell Tate, we can talk about the catch later in Tate as well. But like the, the throw down the seam, aggressive, good pace like that was probably his best read and best throw of the season. For Julian saying on that first touchdown of the game, super efficient, navigated pressure well, used his legs a little bit when he had to. You know, it's, it wasn't the best opponent that Ohio State played this year. So I don't know if you can say it was his best game, but if you can say that then it probably was like I, I, I don't know if the opponent keeps you from doing that, but I, I kind of thought it was his best game of the year.

[Doug Lesmerises]

I thought it was his best game because I thought it was the combination of poise, do what's right, but also more rip it. I thought that was the rippiest saying we've seen and it still didn't include any mistakes because like I think, and it's, to me it is the, it is the next step on the path and I think this was the most dangerous version of Ohio State because he did take a couple shots down the field. He, I thought he just looked more confident. Right. I thought. I just thought he looked like, all right, that, like, there he is. I thought that was the full saying.

[Bill Landis]

I thought it was the full saying, too. And it was interesting to hear. Ryan, day after the game, said, look, we wanted to put. We wanted to put a lot on him. So they threw the ball 27 times on 35 plays in the first half. Just like, yeah, you definitely put it on him, but he seemed to. He seemed to kind of relish that. And, like, some of Those throws were RPOs, which is great. But, yeah, he was ripping it. He was confident, playing with some juice, showing a little bit of making chops. Right. I think. Yeah, it was all. It was all really nice to see. To answer your question, by the way, in the Heisman thing, I think as we're having this conversation, yes, he is probably the favorite. It's either he or Fernando Mendoza, but we'll have to see what Ty Simpson does tonight against Tennessee, I think, because he's. He's kind of right there, too.

[Doug Lesmerises]

But I also, like, there's part of me that does, you know, why would Fernando Mendoza, like the quarterback of undefeated Indiana is the Heisman? It's like, yeah, great, he should be right there. But what about the quarterback of undefeated Ohio State? And I do think we're getting to the point with Carnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith where they're almost too close to pick from. Like, I know who is going to be, like, who's going to start the Carnell Tate Heisman Trophy candidacy, right? I mean, it would seem like.

[Bill Landis]

I almost typed it. I almost typed it in the chat. I didn't. I stopped myself. That catch is ridiculous.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Does he have the best hands you've ever seen?

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

State receiver, really strong and strong and late. Like, he's always just like, got it good. Like, just. He is a. He is a very interesting combination to me of. I don't want to say casual because. Because that. I don't want to. That might imply the wrong thing, but he kind of just feels like he's going along, like, kind of going for a walk in the park. And then it's like a nanosecond of perfect technique and it's over. And. And he has a 26 yard gain and then he just goes, keep going for his walk in the park. And like, he's like, oh, does he have to clean up after his dog? It's like, oh, there's a ball coming. Wham. And here we go. Like, it is. It is really special. And I like I don't think there's anything to it. Like, they've got to get Jeremiah Smith the ball more. I just think they're working in concert together, as we said when I. I guess I read off the incorrect stats, but Tate didn't have as many targets as Jeremiah. He just had more catches and yards than Jeremiah. Right. So I think the breakdown is no issue. Do you have any issue with the breakdown of Tate and Jer and Jeremiah Smith, of how they're being used and how often they're getting the ball?

[Bill Landis]

No, not at all. Tate. Tate has seven targets for six receptions, and Jeremiah had 13 for nine and, like, two. Two.

[Doug Lesmerises]

50.

[Bill Landis]

50 balls in the end zone that were like. Or in the end zone or slash near the end zone. No, I think they're both in the end zone and we're, like, slightly underthrown and like the kind of ridiculous catch that I don't think is fair to expect anybody to actually make. But Jeremiah has made them before.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yes.

[Bill Landis]

So when he doesn't make them, you're like, ah, should have been a touchdown. It's like, yeah, for him. For him only. Yeah. But, yeah, so, like, I don't know, like, nine for. They got him out with that late catch when he probably shouldn't have been out there to get him, like, close to 100 yards. They were very clearly trying to get him in the end zone after Tate scored twice. But no, no, no issue with the breakdown in targets. I guess maybe they. And I think it's just a matter of worth what the coverage is doing. It does feel like Carnell Tate is getting more opportunities down the field than Jeremiah Smith does. But I think that's because safeties are going with Jeremiah and not always with Carnell. Even on that touchdown pass, the safety, like, started over Jeremiah, and the reason Julian saying could make that throw is because the safety was late getting standing over Jeremiah. So I think fans know why it's happening. But yeah, yeah, the break, the breakdown, I think is good. Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

I don't know what it would take to get to the place where safety is like, well, I'm going with Tate. You. You.

[Bill Landis]

A couple more games like this one.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Maybe like, sorry, man, I know it sounds crazy, but you got Jeremiah one on one. Because I'm. I'm going. Tate, he's walking his dog, and he's walking his dog 70 yards down the field, and I'm afraid of what he's going to do. So I just think. But that the. The synchronization of the passing game and I Thought, I thought just like the way, I don't even know what it is because you were sort of talking about like you like it when Julian saying like shows a little juice after, after a big throw or something like that. But I just thought maybe today it looked the most ever like his passing game. And he has these two unbelievable weapons as opposed to here are these two unbelievable weapons being thrown the ball by quarterback X. And a lot of guys could throw him the ball. I thought that, I thought it was more Saiyan centric that takes nothing away from the receivers. But he took more ownership of it.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I felt like they were. But even like, I think, you know, you have six games of a body of work, you figure out sort of like what are Julian's best throws, best concepts kind of stuff. And I felt like Ohio State was leaning into more of that in this game. That is the RPOs like the, just like the quick trigger to, to read it and pull it and fire it out to the sideline. The stuff outside of the pocket, like he's, he's just really good throwing the ball on the run.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yes.

[Bill Landis]

And I think, you know, you saw a couple batted down down at the line in this game. That'll be a thing that I think Julian is a smaller quarterback, will have to continue to be sort of cognizant of when, especially when he's getting pressure. But I think moving the pocket the way that Ohio State does obviously decreases some of the chances for that to happen. So yeah, I, I, it did. It felt like the most sort of like mind meldy, I guess, of like quarterback play caller, what you see on the field so far, so far this season, and granted it happened against the Wisconsin defense that is not very good against the past, so you have to take it with some grain of salt, I suppose. But if you wanted to see like building blocks throughout the year. Right. For a guy who's starting for the first time, I don't know, it's nice to see him turn in his best game of the season halfway through the year.

[Doug Lesmerises]

I did think like the two plays down the field, Jeremiah Smith, Ricardo Hallman, I think was coverage in both of those. And, and as you had pointed out, like, Ricardo Hallman's got a body of work, he's a good player. He's been one of the better cornerbacks in the Big Ten. His grades this year aren't great, but that's like, okay, like Ricardo Hollman's running with you. Like he has a chance to make it difficult on you. Right. So and it's he's more often than not with Jeremiah in those situations. I want to talk about play calling. Give me the breakdown again of past plays to run plays from the official stats that aren't being done by a saboteur with two bratwurst's in each hand.

[Bill Landis]

Sure. Let me see here. Oh, this will be do they not have it? So 7070 total plays. Okay, 28 rushing attempts. But one of those is a. Or one of those is. Two of those are kneel downs, one is a sneak.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yep.

[Bill Landis]

One is a designed run from saying and one is a scramble. One's a scramble and one's a sack. So I think that's only actually 22 carries for the running backs. Okay, 21 carries for the running backs.

[Doug Lesmerises]

And especially I think it was like 277 at some point when the game was. When the game mattered. Right. Early on.

[Bill Landis]

And then the first half. Yeah, the first half. I stopped telling it after the first half, but the first half was they 35 plays and 27 of them were called passes.

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[Doug Lesmerises]

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[Bill Landis]

I think it is, yeah. I think anybody who watches Ohio State would say say that it is. Whether or not this was the first game of many where we see that happen. I, I, I don't know. It's the last game before a week off. You got Penn State, you want to show some different stuff like that's part of it. We're asking a lot about the run game. They didn't run the ball well last week. Come out throwing. That's part of it. I would say of those 27 called passes in the first half, probably eight or so were RPOs that were attached to runs that I think, I think Julian saying made the right read and got the ball out and threw it and it's like why would you run inside for three yards when you can throw it outside for eight yards kind of thing.

[Doug Lesmerises]

So.

[Bill Landis]

I think this is clearly what Ohio State like will be in like come crunch time, right? Like same thing we saw last year, got the postseason started, throwing it more, didn't play faster really, but threw through the ball a lot more, threw it first at least in the first two playoff games. So and, and I think Ryan Day and Brian Hartline know that like when it's time to go win big time games, that's what they have to be. But I don't know if this was more of a break tendency or like the first step in that direction. I'm not entirely sure because I think, I do think we can, think we can take it and run a little too far with it. Based off just past experiences analyzing this team.

[Doug Lesmerises]

I like the first drive especially. I just thought there was more flow, connection, continuity. We've talked a lot about the art of play calling versus the science of play calling. I feel like they had a little ways, maybe a long ways to come with that. I thought you felt that early in the game that, that things were maybe connected more than they've ever been. And I don't know if that's just because it was passed passes and because when they throw sometimes they just look unstoppable. But did you feel that from a play calling standpoint?

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I felt like at, really at no point this year has it felt like Ohio State has ever leaned on a team with its, with its rushing attack, but it was leaning on Wisconsin with its passing attack to start this game. It was just an onslaught. And, and again, I think, I think aided by the fact that some of these passes were paired with runs and like I think Wisconsin was expecting Ohio State to come to run because that's what Ohio State has done all year. Right. So it was a little bit of a, a zig when they're expecting you to zag kind of thing. But like I, I think that that entire drive, I think is just like a snapshot of who they ought to be. Right. Like, like throwing it more than they run it. Every run has the option to throw. Almost every run has the option to throw. So we'll see if that's okay actually morph into.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Because that would be like, that's quite a thing. That's not how most teams play offense.

[Bill Landis]

If, if played offense for a couple of years.

[Doug Lesmerises]

I, I know and like, I don't, I, you are, I think it is correct at this moment right now. Do you view this more as a one off or more as the game plan that Ohio State will follow in its chase to repeat as national champions?

[Bill Landis]

I, I, I'll put my foot in the bear trap, I guess, and say the latter. Like I think this was the first step in that direction. Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Okay. That is like I'm people. I, there's somebody, Bill, who just pulled their car over on the side of the road while listening to this and got out and ran around in a field of sunflowers and said this is the greatest day of my life. Because that's what everybody's been waiting for. And it can make you feel like a lunatic, right? Because when, when Washington was chucking, chucking it around on the way the national title game two years ago, wasn't I kind of like, what could Ohio State do? This? It's like, well, that's not exactly what Ohio State does, but it's like, but, but couldn't they. And like this is that. Because we're talking about when we've looked back in the history of Ryan Day at Ohio State, it's like, well, are they going to be more 55 pass, 45 run? Are they going to be more 53% run, 47 pass? But nobody do you never have we had a conversation of like, do you think they should be 65 past 35 run? But you watch a game like this, the answer is yes, they should be.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. I mean this was like 80 pass, but yeah, at least until, at least until garbage time. Yeah. Like I, I think there, there is a notion, right. And I don't actually think it's entirely off base. Like in the Big Ten you may encounter games where you can't do that because of the weather. I, we, we talked when we made our picks, like it was supposed to rain and the forecast change and it was like the most beautiful day in Madison anyone's ever seen. So it didn't rain at all. And like it wasn a factor. But like that's the only thing, I guess that is, that would be in the back of your mind with wanting to keep working on the run game. Like they do have to keep working on the run game, right? They can't. I don't think they're gonna average two and a half yards of carry themselves to a national championship again.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Right.

[Bill Landis]

But clearly they should be a through first team. And we've long thought that about Ohio State and I think maybe only one year in the Ryan Day they actually have been by percentages of their plays. So. But this is it. Like, this is what it has to look like, right? And it's not even. It's saying and it's Tate and it's Smith and it's like good for Brandon Ennis for getting a touchdown in this game. And you see some young guys step into the game and you're throwing check downs to Bo Jackson. It's like, what if Bo Jackson has eight carries and six receptions for 50 yards in every game, right? Like, that's not a bad game for Bo Jackson and he's clearly pretty good as a receiving back. So Everything they do, they pass block better than they run block. Like, everything they do points in the direction of, like, this is what they need to be. So that, that is why I think it was the first step. Even if history tells me maybe we shouldn't think that so definitively.

[Doug Lesmerises]

So I think again, it, I think it's maybe in the first step on a path that isn't a straight line and that, that if you get, if Ohio State gets into a game with Purdue or Rutgers or it's a little weird it at home for Ohio State in two weeks against Penn State that they won't do this. But, but maybe. And as. And as people have pointed out and, and smartly so Wisconsin has decent run defense in their past defense, right? So it's like, okay, like, also like, good job leaning into what the defense doesn't do very well. But that this is, that this is possible. And I think, I don't know that anybody would have doubted that it's possible. But the idea that, like, is it a legitimate option? Is this you. Ohio State gets into a playoff quarterfinal against a good team and could they decide to really go about it? 70 pass, 30 run? Because I think that's what you and I and a lot of fans would have questioned, like, are they do, like, do they just not want to do that because they don't think it's the best way to win? Would they bang their head against the wall of the run game or if they just let it happen? You're saying, and I think I agree with you, that this is an indication that when circumstances allow it and not dictate it, but maybe this becomes more of like, this is what we want to do. So unless they have a great past defense, unless they're just going to drop eight and not let us do anything, but even then, maybe you just do the RPO stuff. He takes off underneath. But we want to do this. And if the weather or the defense isn't particularly stopping us from throwing it 65 of the time, that's officially our game plan. That's our default game plan. And maybe you come away from that doesn't mean every game, but it means it becomes more of the norm. And I would not say, so far we believe that was the norm.

[Bill Landis]

No, I didn't believe it was the norm. And I think the difference might be the RPO stuff, right? Because even if you think about 2018, when they threw the ball a ton when Dwayne was the quarterback, it was such a ongoing conversation about, like, well, we're trying to run RPOs, but the offensive line doesn't know how to block them. And then when it's time to run the ball, we can't do it. It's like, well, I guess we're just not doing too many RPOs that year. Like 20, 23. They didn't have a great run game. They weren't like, still not a heavy RPO team. They've really never been like, Ryan Day has just never been a guy who incorporates a lot of that into his offense. This was a, like, by Ryan Day standards, this was a very heavy RPO game. And I think as long as you're giving yourself that option to like, you know, we've talked about, like, defenses can sort of play you to whatever, run the ball or throw the ball if they know your heavy RPO team, depending on what they prefer you to do. But if they're doing that, like, say they. They are playing you to run the ball, well, then the way they're going to do that is by diverting more of their players to stopping your throwing game, which then will give you a better box to run the ball into. And theory you're a more efficient rushing team and Ohio State should be able to rush that way. Their numbers so far this season, running into late boxes are fine. So if they have that, if it's like, it's less to me about overall balance. Did you run it? Did you throw it over the course of the game, but it's like, do you have almost like balance within your plays to run an end or throw it? I think is. Is where they need to live. So as long as they're living there, then I think, yeah, it's probably fine if you end up in a game where you throw the ball 70 of the time.

[Doug Lesmerises]

We've been talking about the art of play calling. Do you think it's possible that Ryan Day grabbed Brian's heartline by the shoulders in the post game locker room and said, that's it, that's it. Awesome job. How that felt sitting up in that box and how this offense was working and you felt like you were a pilot on a 747 in smooth skies. That's it, Brian. You had that moment. Remember how this feels? This is how this team wins.

[Bill Landis]

Probably this. This was the. It wasn't 100 perfect.

[Doug Lesmerises]

I know we gotta get to the run game, but.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, yeah, but this was. It was like, for like coming off of a game last week where I feel like it really had no rhythm. Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Like you were saying when you look back last week, you're talking about running into heavy boxes. Not like, well, we ran because that's what the defense gave us. It's like, like, well, the defense is taking away the run and you're running anyway.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, right. Like it didn't seem like RPOs are like live last week. Watching, re. Watching the game and they're very much live.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Okay.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, maybe, maybe Ryan Day had that reaction to this one. I, I think you're, we all know what it looks like when a play caller is on the rhythm. This.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Right.

[Bill Landis]

Ryan Day has been in that mode many times in, in his time at Ohio State. This was probably the most rhythm Brian Harline has been in. Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Okay. Run game. On our Monday show, Around the Shoe. We hope people join us on around the Shoe where we welcome two fantastic Ohio State media members on a rotating basis to join me and join Bill in talking about five quick hit Ohio State topics. We talked about who's a young player you'd like to see more of in the second half of the season on Monday. And I nominated Isaiah West. Isaiah West, 9 carries, 54 yards today. Bo Jackson, 10 carries, 26. 6. CJ Donaldson, 2 carries for 12. So do you think we are at RB1 is Bo Jackson and RB2 is Isaiah west and the short yardage guy for whatever reason is C.J. donaldson?

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, kind of. This was the second time that like James Peoples was available and they just didn't give him the ball on a handoff. So yeah, I kind of think we're there. And Isaiah west was in this game early. Yep.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Like this was, I wouldn't call that stuff garbage time, right?

[Bill Landis]

No, no, they had that. He was on that drive where they missed the field goal. It was like past the Quincy Porter or past the mile and Graham passed up Quincy Porter run for Isaiah west, like three straight plays. That's where I am. Like I, I, I like is Ohio State's running back stable, two true freshmen? Yeah, it kind of feels that way.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah. So, so here, here's the thing about this and I think maybe we've now learned from the Bo Jackson thing. There was like a week or 10 days there where it maybe felt like the fans and the media were somewhere with Bo Jackson and we were wondering, are the coaches there also? And then it turns out, yeah, they were. And maybe they were slow playing it a little bit. Maybe they were making sure that they kept the veterans involved and didn't just go willy nilly to the freshman. Maybe they made sure that Bo Jackson was all doing all the other things that he needed to do. But, like, week four, it was like, oh, no, they have the same eyeballs that we have, and everybody sees that Bo Jackson is the best running back on this team. And then we stopped having angsty conversations about, like, oh, why don't they give the bottle to Bo Jackson? I. If you see it, if the people see it, I think they see it, and I don't know that it means that that's what it's going to be against Penn State. But I bet by the Michigan game, and maybe a gradual. Maybe not fast enough for some of us, but I bet by the Michigan game, it's Bo Jackson and Isaiah west as the backfield.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I think so, too. Donaldson's not going anywhere. Donaldson is going to be like their situational guy still, for better or for worse. But that, that is what it is. And he's a veteran. That's part of it is like, he's older. You want the ball in his hands.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Sure.

[Bill Landis]

And, and like, when the money's down kind of thing. But, yeah, I think, I think we're headed in, in that direction. I still thought even Bo Jackson, he got hit in the backfield a lot, but I don't know, he didn't. Still not look 100 to me on some of those runs.

[Doug Lesmerises]

There are a couple turnstile plays, man. Where it was like, man, that, that was. There was a badger at your feet, and it was like, let's go back to the replay.

[Bill Landis]

And oh, baby. Yeah. There wasn't like, you know, ladanian Tomlinson's not dancing his way out of some of these.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

But I think it'll be good for Bo to get, like, to get this week of rest before the Penn State game. Yeah. And I, I, Depending on how that game goes, I guess I'll say this, like, Bo Jackson's gonna start against Penn State. And depending on whether or not the situation presents itself, for CJ Donaldson to get involved is hard. It's hard to predict, but, like, the third running back into the game, I think will be Isaiah west in that game.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah. But I bet, I bet Michigan and playoff Isaiah west winds up with more carries in those combined games than C.J. donaldson does.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Even if C.J. donaldson is a touchdown vulture.

[Bill Landis]

That's right.

[Doug Lesmerises]

We see the Tiger Shibola situation. We're just not going. We said it right off the top. It's just not what we're going to spend a lot of time on right now. So we see your comments. Every Ohio State fan sees it. We're going to give Mr. O line a little time to take a second look at it and really try to problem solve this for our substack show for Substack subscribers on Sunday morning. So if you want to, if you want to come join us there. Billandduggoassue.substack.com we do a Sunday morning sound off show for the subscribers over there. So we're not like, it's not like we're avoiding it, it's not like we're afraid to talk about it. We just want to, you know, understandably talk about the number one team, defending national champs, winning 34 nothing on the road and finishing this four game stretch with some really good football. With some really good football. They threw a touchdown pass at a 13 personnel on the goal line. What'd you think of that?

[Bill Landis]

Great. Because they were entered, they were in far and way too deep on I think like tipping their hand by personnel right when, okay, they get in the eye formation, they run the ball so they have to throw out of it sometimes. And they did it against Minnesota. Okay, Washington. No, they did against Washington, I think. And they did it in this game. They have to keep sprinkling that in. So I thought that was a nice call. Nice design.

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[Bill Landis]

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[Doug Lesmerises]

Special teams we've, we've just had multiple special teams conversations. We've had multiple special teams investigations on our sub stack where we have delved into things. We have, we have asked who's in charge of things. We have compared Ohio State to other teams from a special team standpoint and it's still just loose. I don't, it's not great to miss a 38 yard field goal but I sometimes you do. I know in the Michigan Washington game they exchanged missed field goals early on in that game. And when it really, it feels like a lot of people are at the point with Jaden Fielding where it's just like every time he's out there now it's like okay, I mean he's usually pretty good under 40. Like usually pretty good. Like he just doesn't have a big leg. He's not gonna make a long one. But he's usually pretty good otherwise. But you throw in a 38 yard miss into a game like this and it just, it ups the angst a little bit. Does it not sure.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I mean I don't, I, I wrote, I wrote a story about kicking field goals like two or three weeks ago and in that story I wrote, I don't think Ryan Day trust his field goal kicker as far as he can throw him and, and I think that remains the case. Certainly not for anything from distance. But there's, there's still a little bit too much inconsistency there. I, I don't, I don't entirely understand kicking in that situation like because I just don't know that when, like if Ohio State's in a game in that situation are they really going to kick? Are they really going to put it on Jaden Fielding's like wouldn't you be better off like doing what you're going to do and it matters most in those situations and working on those things rather than putting out your average kicker to kick a 30 yard field goal he's not going to make.

[Doug Lesmerises]

But I think it's still, it's still, I think a little bit of the work in progress because what if the 38 yard field goal is on 4th and 17 and you just can't go on 4th and 17 in a close game and like it's not a choice. I do, I agree with you. I think if they play in a game that matters against an opponent that matters if there's a choice. I don't think there's picking field goal. Michigan playoff, they're not picking field goal ever. If. But he I think is continuing to test it for the moments when you are forced into field goal. And the analytics tell you that 4th and 16 versus a 44 yard field goal, you've got to try the 44 yard field goal. And so you can't have a kicker who's three of four on the year because you haven't given him the chance. So I just assume every field goal is not a strategic decision. It is a test for the future.

[Bill Landis]

They did convert. Well, nearly converted like a third and 18. Like they were running off third and one.

[Doug Lesmerises]

So.

[Bill Landis]

So if there was ever a team where maybe you do go for it on 4th and 16, it's this one. I get, I get what you're saying. Yes. And I thought the same thing. We were having 50 yard field goal conversations. Like, are there going to be a lot of 50 yard field goals of consequence? Probably not. But like, what if you have 1 second left and it's the only recourse you have is like you're not going to throw a Hail Mary. Right. So you might as well. You got to work on it some. I get that. It's just frustrating. I think it'd be less frustrating if the rest of the special teams weren't such a joke, but it just sort of gets thrown into the mix with everything else.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Where are you on punt return at the moment?

[Bill Landis]

I actually think like a couple of them weren't bad today considering Brandon Innisfil was injured and maybe he shouldn't have been back there. The one that got down to the one like that's just a good punt. Like he's not. Brandon is not supposed to. He's not supposed to catch that. He's supposed to do what he did. Fake like he's gonna catch it and get out of the way so it doesn't hit him and hope that it bounces into the end zone. The last one where he like caught running backwards toward the end zone. Didn't love that one.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah, that was like over the shoulder at the two and a half. I'm not sure. Isn't it yeah, yeah.

[Bill Landis]

Not great. So again, like a mixed bag. And then the.

[Doug Lesmerises]

The.

[Bill Landis]

The conversion on the 4th and 19th punt was from the esteemed Dan Hope of 11 warriors from the postgame press conference. Ryan Day called the breakdown on Wisconsin's fake punt quote ridiculous, which is one way to describe. It wasn't even a fake punt. The guy just ran because there was nobody there. It was not a called fake punt.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Because that was the thing that, that caused the Ryan Day Greg Giano fight a couple years ago that Jesse Mirko did. It was like. Because you're right, right. If it's there, take it. And Jesse Mirko took it like a 40 point win. And Greg Shiana was. Was like Ryan Day, do you want to throw hands?

[Bill Landis]

And so usually it's like 4th and 4, not 4th and 19.

[Doug Lesmerises]

I know they still had a tackle to make it. They didn't make it. They missed two tackles on a punter. Now it's also possible. Is Wisconsin's punter their best athlete?

[Bill Landis]

Luke Fickle's got some stuff to figure out, I think.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Also, I can't find the stats because as we've reported, the stat box at the Wisconsin at Camp Randall fell off the side of the press box during the game.

[Bill Landis]

Looks like they're updated now. It looks like they're updated now.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Not for me. Oh.

[Bill Landis]

Refresh your screen.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Ah. Oh, there they are. All right, special teams, Special teams punting. Ohio State, 42 yard average. Wisconsin Punter, 54 yard average. It is one of those things, it feels like taunting when Ohio State faces a team that it is four times better than and you're like, my God, I'm not sure. Ohio State wouldn't trade three receivers for their punter right now.

[Bill Landis]

He booted one out of the end zone like 70 yards. He's not having a good year either. Their punter, he averaged 54 yards a punt.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Seven punt, 54 yards.

[Bill Landis]

And one went through the end zone. And the other one that Brandon Ennis caught on the dead sprint running backwards should have gone through the end zone.

[Doug Lesmerises]

50 plus. 6 out of 50 plus. I'm not sure Joe McGuire can kick the ball 50 yards. Are you sure that he can?

[Bill Landis]

I know. I'm sure that he can't.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah. Okay, so I'll just say, like, we're just. Everyone's frazzled about special teams. Okay.

[Bill Landis]

Oh, they had a new punter. It wasn't. I thought Atticus Bertram was their punter. This is a different.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Listen, you're. You, you're just obsessed with. Is Atticai the plural of two atticuses and so no it's this some this west guy. Maybe they can trade for a punter. Ohio State can trade for a punter in the portal, but special teams still just feels like on edge in a weird way when almost everything else with the number one team in the run game accepted at times is really clicking. It just. It just is an odd situation.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I mean, I mean they punted once. It was 42 yards.

[Doug Lesmerises]

No, I mean that's. It's not like nobody's walking around with torches about punting today.

[Bill Landis]

But yeah, they didn't one kick return for 16 yards. It's mostly just punt return and field goal still, which is I think what it's usually been.

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[Doug Lesmerises]

It's Cybersecurity Awareness Month and Lifelock is here with tips to help protect your identity, use strong passwords, set up multi factor authentication and report phishing scams. And for comprehensive identity protection, LifeLock is your best choice. Lifelock alerts you to suspicious uses of your personal information and also fixes identity theft. Theft guaranteed or your money back. Stay smart, stay safe, and stay protected with a 30 day free [e-mail] Special offer terms apply. I wrote before the game about the conversation that Kenyatta Jackson said he had with Matt Patricia this week, that he thought he was having a good year. But he, he said, I wouldn't say I'm doing things I don't want to do, but I'm sacrificing for the team. It's just like, man, this is super interesting. I think Kenyatta Jackson is a real one, man. Like, I just, I think I, I have a lot of respect for that guy. A top 100 national crew from the state of Florida who, you know, didn't. He's a year behind Jackson. JT2 MOLO. He ends up getting blocked. JT and Jack in their first three seasons in Ohio State, like, JT played like 1400 snaps. Jack played 1100 and a year behind them in his first three seasons. Kenyatta Jackson played 500. Right? So like you're just, you're not getting the opportunity. And now here he's getting an opportunity and they're just playing like mature, poised defense and he kind of wants chances to rush the passer. So I was like on alert for it today and I thought you saw it. Like, I, I don't know if I made it up. See, Seek is saying the KJ discussion sounded a bit selfish. I don't think it does because I think when you are a veteran who is doing his job, you have earned the right to start a conversation with your position coach and you, you earn that. You earn that conversation with work. And I think you can, you can do what is best for the team and still be interested in like. But I have something I want to say about me and I will say this also. I would rather have a player bring it up to a coach than, than sulk about it it or start something.

[Bill Landis]

Or just start doing it without bringing.

[Doug Lesmerises]

It up or freelance, right? So like I, I think this is realistic. I think it is. This is how life works. And how many disgruntled people do you know at your job who are just like walking around like MF and people. MF and the bosses behind their back, right? They don't know how good I am off whatever you. But you're. You instead take it to the boss and say, I'm doing what you tell me to do. But I believe I can also help this company by doing other things. And I would like to talk to you about that. I think that is actually incredibly mature. And so I then did think, because I, I think you could see a little bit. And I tried to go back and re watch last week. Is that in A little bit, I think, in trying to cage the pocket, as he said, and like, not over rush and keep contained and not let quarterbacks out. I thought he was sort of being a little almost basic with his pass rush, that he's sort of like, okay, I'm gonna go into a guy, I'm going to go into the tackle, I'm going to stand him up, I'm going to make sure that I don't get too far inside or too far outside, and I'm going to make the quarterback stay in the pocket. If I get to him, great. But that's not actually what we're that worried about. But I'm just going to do this. And he's saying like. Because what he said is I want to use my moves. Because he said, I talked. I said, I talked to Coach P about some other things I want to do. I said, what are the other things? He said, I want to use my pass rush moves. So then I thought today you saw him using his pass rush moves. I thought I saw a spin. I thought I saw like the pull down and go around. I thought I saw him try to go around the edge on somebody. But in a way he said, Matt Patricia basically said, just don't go past the quarterback and you can kind of do whatever you want. And I thought it like just unleashed him a little bit. And then he had the play where he knocked the ball of the quarterback's hands and it was an incomplete pass, but it was a good play. I thought he was a little more active and I just thought it was. I don't know, I might have been the only person in the country I was on lookout for it because I thought it was interesting conversation, but I thought I saw it. And to me that's like, that's good. That's good football. That's mature football that has a chance to pay off down the line. And I'm glad Kenyatta Jackson and Matt Patricia had that conversation.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. And I think it was a game for it too. Right. Like, they're not worried about Wisconsin's quarterbacks taking off and running on them, clearly. So, like, when they play, the next time they play a quarterback, they can scoot. I don't know if that's next or in two weeks against Ethan Gronkmeyer or not. But like Nico Yamaliava, right. When they play ucla, you want to cage the pocket on him. So when it happens, like, I think, you know, the job description changes. But what this job description was. Yeah, let it, let it, let it eat A little bit. Right. And I felt like you, you saw him doing that. It seemed like the left tackle actually both tackles, wherever he was lined up, we're having some trouble with him. He didn't have like a ton of sacks or anything like that. But it did feel like he was, he was kind of getting by the guy guy, the decent man. There wasn't a ton of like pure drop back in this game either, which always contributes to it. But I, yeah, I, I thought you saw it. I thought you, you felt like his presence a little bit. He did have the one penalty where he got a little over anxious. I think the best thing Wisconsin did, I think in this game was like vary it's cadence to get Ohio State to try to jump off sides.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Did he jump off size twice? I thought. Did he jump off sides twice? Because then I thought it was like, oh, I see him like trying to do this now and it's like okay. Like I see it like it's okay. It happens sometimes.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. I can't remember if it was twice.

[Doug Lesmerises]

It was.

[Bill Landis]

Definitely happened at least one time. But yeah, he's got more sort of like in his bag.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Right.

[Bill Landis]

And he's just been doing what's required of the position given the opponents they've played. So I think we'll continue to see that. But yeah, you want to, you want to give guys a chance to get after a little bit. When you're playing a team that's as over matched as Wisconsin, wasn't it? It felt like they did that today.

[Doug Lesmerises]

So double checking. Lorenzo Styles was not on the injury report, but he did not play. Right.

[Bill Landis]

I did not see him out there. Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

How are you? What did you think of slot coverage to your main Matthews, Devin Sanchez, the things they do when Lorenzo Styles is not on the field.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, it was, it was good in this game, I guess. Like it wasn't. Again, not a game that's going to test them a whole lot. Sanchez to get the one pass interference penalty that I thought was actually a pretty weak call.

[Doug Lesmerises]

I thought it was a problem too. I was confused.

[Bill Landis]

So he just like kind of like put his hands on the guy and the guy dove. It's like a. In hockey that's a penalty on the other guy for embellishing. They should do that in football. Yeah. So fine. Like again, not a game where they're gonna get tested a whole lot. Matthews had one tackle. I think he might have been in coverage on the interception. But it was also like kind of an inaccurate throw that just hit off the guy's shoulder and then was picked out of the air by Sonny Styles.

[Doug Lesmerises]

So you thought. I didn't think it was that inaccurate. I thought the guy like didn't get his hands up and like left the ball.

[Bill Landis]

Maybe that's what it was. It hit his shoulder pad like that's why it popped up in the air.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Went through his hand. Like, catch it with your hands, not your shoulder, bro.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. So aside from that play, there wasn't a whole lot I think in this game that was going to test really anybody in the secondary.

[Doug Lesmerises]

It is a stark reminder. Wisconsin is a once proud program that was that had the sixth best record in college football among the Power Four from 2005 to 2019. In terms of winning percentage, Ohio State of the best winning percentage between 2005 and 2019, Wisconsin had the sixth best. And here we are today and it's a situation. Quarterback injuries, but a million other things going wrong. Wisconsin is making football look really difficult right now. And I think it is a worthy reminder that sometimes Ohio State makes it look so easy. Football's not easy. Football is actually as hard as Wisconsin made it look. And when Ohio State is just rolling on both sides of the ball, it is all the more to be impressed by.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, Wisconsin, in a game where it had no shot, only threw the ball 15 times and ran the ball 31 times. So they were clearly in let's see if we can't string together some first downs and shorten this thing mode. And that. That was not effective. Yeah, it's about, it's a, it's a rough watch. What's going on in Madison.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Rough watch.

[Bill Landis]

And yeah, Ohio State has rough areas certainly that need to get smoothed out. But. But by and large, I think is a pretty fun watch.

[Doug Lesmerises]

7 yard total plays Ohio State 70, Wisconsin 46 yards per play Ohio State 7 Wisconsin 3.1 man. What. So when you say rough areas, as we talk about the number one team in the country, what are the rough areas in your mind?

[Bill Landis]

The offensive line question on the right side needs to be addressed. Continuing to figure out what they do best slash should be doing with the run game and who should be doing it and the situational stuff. Short yardage, red zone. That's part of the reason why the field goals frustrated me is because like they have a lot to work on in the red zone and they're like passing down opportunities to perhaps do that by kicking 38 yard field goals.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Okay.

[Bill Landis]

Because the red zones, the red zone stats in this game actually. So they're five of six with a Missed field goal and two field goal attempts. But on those field goal drives, I think they only only actually ran one play in the red zone on like the street. So it's like they're kicking from the 20 and it counts as a red, red zone trip. So it's like a little bit misleading. But the numbers are with a similar conversation to the Ohio game. But the numbers are what they are. Like they need to continue working at it. Like I would relish the opportunities to like allow Julian saying to throw the ball more in the red zone zone because it's probably the area where he struggles the most. The fade ball is nice. He threw a nice, nice fade ball touchdown to Carnell Tate in this game. But yeah, I think, I think on offense, like situational stuff and finishing drives against good teams I think is still something that's a little bit.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Up in.

[Bill Landis]

The air and that like defense, I don't know, I guess we don't know what it would look like if they played like an excellent offense because I don't know that they played an excellent offense yet. I don't, I'm not like super concerned about that. I just think they have a very good defense.

[Doug Lesmerises]

When are they gonna play an excellent offense? Like in the semis? Like what Penn State? Penn State, ucla, Purdue, Rutgers, Michigan and Michigan had a really nice one against Washington today and we've continued to see the continued growth of Bryce Underwood. But they, and they did that without Justin Haynes today. When Justin Haynes is back, that'll matter for Michigan. Sure. But I don't, I, I, it could be, it could be a while. It could be a while until you.

[Bill Landis]

See that Big Ten championship if they play Indiana.

[Doug Lesmerises]

That's true, that's true, that's true, that's true. Do you think broadcasters don't like calling Ohio State games because the, they're too good?

[Bill Landis]

Yes. And that opinion is less informed by what I heard in the Ohio State game and entirely informed by what I heard in the Michigan Washington game from Gus and Joel, who were pretty fired up anytime something happened in that game.

[Doug Lesmerises]

I thought Brad Nesto and Gary Danielson were sort of like, they were more matter of fact about it. I don't think they were. It feels like Gus and Joel complain about it sometimes.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

And this is even a game. And, and Gary Danielson and Brad Ness were more like, this game is not a game. And like were a little more professional about it. But they still, I, I, I thought at times you could hear them like long, like, remember when we used to do section games in the sec. And it didn't mean they were good, but they sure were exciting. And I wish we were doing Georgia Ole Miss right now. And even though Ohio State would undress and de pants and throw Georgia and Ole Miss into a lake, that game was 43, 38 or whatever it was. And here we are watching Ohio State completely dismantle Wisconsin Johnson. And it's just not exciting right now, but it is professional. And I'm not sure what Ohio State can do about it, but it is. It is a little bit of a weird spot, I think, for Ohio State fans to have the broadcasters constantly be like, well, your team's really good.

[Bill Landis]

Well, the CBS guys, too, don't get like, they were getting their top pick of the SEC games every week, and now they get, like, the third pick of the Big Ten games. Yeah, it's like, so they have to call Ohio State, Wisconsin, and then they flashed up the four games that are their options for the next Saturday. I was like, all those games suck. So it's CBS's fault, I guess. I don't feel bad for them. They're the ones who paid for it. But, yeah, you can. You can feel it. It's like, I. They get bored with how good Ohio State is, and especially when they're playing a game like this against the team. Just can't hang with them.

[Doug Lesmerises]

It was like. And Ohio State continues to outgain Wisconsin, 500 to 100. But remember Barry Alvarez and Chris Farley? My God, that was great. I would take either of them right now in this booth because this is torture. So I just. I don't know what to do, I guess. Arizona State scored against Texas Tech to perhaps send the Red Raiders to defeat. I don't know if the Red Raiders.

[Bill Landis]

We cursed everybody by saying there's gonna be nine undefeated teams this year. Now, to be fair, 26, 22 with 30 seconds left.

[Doug Lesmerises]

It was my fault. You don't have to win that. I said, I think we could have 4 12, zero power, by the way.

[Bill Landis]

A M in a game with Arkansas.

[Doug Lesmerises]

My God. God bless the sec. All right. Weird. I. I just. I. I don't know that we're gonna get. We are not gonna be like, I've called Ohio State boring good in the past. But, like, boring good to me is more about. You do just enough to win against inferior teams, and you don't even look that good. And then you come out of a game. And I will tell Ohio State fans this and Ohio State f around a lot longer than I have and a lot Longer than you have Bill. They know this. But the times when you came out of an Ohio State game and you're like, man, I don't know if they played that well, but they won by 30 and what are we supposed to do with this? That to me is boring. Good. Ohio State, that can be very odd and frustrating and just a little confusing to talk about. Like, well, you, you beat Rutgers 40 to 7. But man, I can list like 17 things. I thought you didn't do that well. And just that that is not what this is. And so I think to reasonably talk about, okay, right guard's an issue and the run game has to get straightened out. And sometimes special teams is a little weird and we're not sure exactly how the ruds. The red zone is going to fit together. But there are still just more things piled on top of that, I think where it's like, okay, Arvell Reese, Caleb Downs, Sonny Styles, I don't know how anybody stops that, man. Florento Styles is out. They're fine in the secondary. Okay. The tackles are playing awesome. How, how well is Kaden McDonald playing right now? But like that kind of thing. And then the other four guys on the offensive line are all playing really well. They had their receivers could not be.

[Bill Landis]

Playing better, make it way better. I think the O line needs to like, needs a straighten out the whole low line. Maybe not left tackle, maybe not left tackle, but the rest of the Montgomery straighten out.

[Doug Lesmerises]

He's got beat on one play today.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, he said last couple games he's got hit a couple hiccups. I think Hensman's had a couple hiccups.

[Doug Lesmerises]

I feel like Luke Montgomery is more like in a 70 snap game, like 66 bangers and four whoops. Yeah, yeah, that's probably, you know, and maybe Henceman the same way where like the right side at the moment is more like, oh, I don't know about that. On a little bit more of a consistent basis.

[Bill Landis]

The right side is in a much different spot. Yes, that is, that is absolutely true.

[Doug Lesmerises]

But this from an offensive line. Like two weeks ago we were talking about Bowen is, is. Has. Has that room playing with aggression like everybody in the nation was talking about that you think they've maybe regressed slightly like in the past two, three weeks.

[Bill Landis]

The three best defensive fronts they've played are Texas, Illinois and Wisconsin. And those are the three worst games they played. Which is something that, which is something that you won. Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Okay. But Julian saying is coming along like you want a quarterback to come along for sure.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Okay. Okay. I just think. I just think, like, we want to be. We want to be realistic, but we don't want to be, like, unnecessarily pessimistic. We don't want to be Pollyanna. We don't want to be naive. But again, as you go through the sport, the sec, honestly, like, LSU is such a fraud that it's not even worth talking about. Brian Kelly's gonna get fired at the end of the year, and it's like, Ohio, Penn State just blew up fast and quick, but there are a lot of SEC programs that are slowly melting down, but the result at the end of the year is there's going to be a lot of melted snowmen down there. And so, like, I just don't think that it. Like Vanderbilt. Vanderbilt is just puffed up on the mediocrity of the sec, but, like, LSU being absolute fraud is bad for that league, man. It is bad for that league because they were not at the Penn State level. But the whole point is, like, well, Penn State was a national champion possibility, right? It's like they're not close to that. It's like, okay, but Ohio State, Indiana, and Oregon are. It's like, okay, people were elite. Corso picked LSU to win the national championship. Connor o' Gara on Saturday down south picked LSU to win the national championship. All right, They're a tire fire. All right, who instead, the answer is not Ohio State, Indiana, Oregon. So please, let's just, like, be aware of, like, what is happening here. And football's hard, and Ohio State's in a really good spot. Not to be Pollyanna, but Ohio State's a really good spot.

[Bill Landis]

So, yeah, I think they're. Yeah, it's a good time. I think I always hate the is this a good time for bi week question, which on Ryan Day will undoubtedly get next week. But to get on the other side of a stretch where you play three out of four on the road, a couple in tricky spots, a couple against teams that, like, if you're not on your stuff, can give you a little bit of a game to get through that really kind of unchallenged is good, but they have some stuff to figure out now. They have a week without a game to. To address some of it. So we'll see how they come out of it the next time they play.

[Doug Lesmerises]

The KJ thing is very mature. Until you talk to the media about it, that's when it becomes not mature. I love kj and he has earned that right. But keep it in the Woody I just, I mean that's. Do you think Matt Patricia is mad about it? I don't think Matt Patricia's mad about it, no. And again, when you're a veteran, like you earn the, you earn the right to be honest. I, I mean like, honestly, if there's.

[Bill Landis]

Gonna be Ohio State, I wasn't even there. Was he, did he volunteer the information or was he asked specifically about it?

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah, no, he's, it was like he had a question like, how's your season going? He was like, I think it's going pretty well. I think I'm playing pretty well. You know, know I'm not, I'm doing some things. I wouldn't say I, I don't want to do them, but you know, I'm sacrificing for the team. And I talked to Matt Patricia about that because I would like to do some other things. And then we continue the conversation. I mean it's like this is, nobody in the media is like making this into a thing. It's not, I hope fans don't make into a thing. That's not. Because like you don't have to, like, we don't have to pretend that they're not people. What's the point of that? And we don't have to pretend that like a 21 year old guy or have rolled Kenyatta Jackson is who's put in four years of hard work in that building doesn't have a right to say some things that, that he believes in when he's actually doing the things that he wants that his team wants him to do. But you could, you're allowed to be a person on top of that. And so like if you're, if you're, if any Ohio State fans want to go that way, you're now you're a fan looking for nothing. It's nothing. It's an interesting, mature perspective and I hope, I hope there's nobody who's like, I can't believe, I mean that would be silly because now you're asking the not be people, but guess what? They are people. So I thought it was, I thought it was really interesting and like I think a little interesting light. And then by the way, you know what's a good thing? I can go talk to my coach about this. And he's the guy in charge of the defense, by the way. It's like he didn't bypass Larry Johnson. He talks to Larry Johnson every day. He's in meeting rooms with Larry Johnson every single day. And he went and talked to the guy who's in charge of the defense. Talk about, hey, what can we do here in a way that can be better for him and even be better for the team? So I just think like, I hope people aren't doing a thing thing. All right, we'll be back on Sunday Sound off on Sunday morning with our Substack subscribers. We'll have some thoughts that we'll share over on Substack. We'll be doing stuff next week. We're not. Are we taking the idle week off? Shut down the YouTube channel.

[Bill Landis]

You're keeping it going. We'll keep, we'll keep it going.

[Doug Lesmerises]

We are.

[Bill Landis]

All right.

[Doug Lesmerises]

You're the chief of content, so if that's what you say, I was gonna go to an island somewhere. I can't afford to go to an island. So we will have lots of stuff next week. Off week for Ohio State before the final stretch run starting with Penn State at home in Columbus. But for now, this four game stretch that I thought. Did you think before the season this four game stretch had a chance to maybe be tricky.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. Yeah, I, I thought sort of like removing the Michigan thing as a entire conversation, a separate conversation entirely. This was the four game stretch coming into the year where I thought they could get triple up.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Ohio State went 40 by a combined score of 134 to 25.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, not bad.

[Doug Lesmerises]

So there you have it. All right. Thanks to you guys for being here. As always, you can find us on Substack. Bill and Doug. Osu.substack.com Tell a friend the Bill and Doug show we talk about Ohio State for now. Appreciate you guys. He's Bill Andis. I'm Doug Le Maurice. Ohio state beats Wisconsin 34 to nothing. And that was the Bill and Doug Show. It's Cybersecurity awareness month and Lifelock is here with tips to help protect your identity. Use strong passwords, set up multi factor authentication and report phishing scams. And for comprehensive identity protection, Lifelock is your best choice. Lifelock alerts you to suspicious uses of your personal information information and also fixes identity theft, guaranteed or your money back. Stay smart, stay safe and stay protected. With a 30 day free trial at lifelock.com special offer terms apply.