The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Tight End Grades — Is it Too Many Tight Ends? (Dec 21, 2025)

Episode Overview

This episode of The Bill and Doug Show, hosted by seasoned Ohio State football analysts Doug Lesmerises and Bill Landis, goes deep on the Buckeyes’ tight end room in the wake of an unusual season where Ohio State consistently fielded more tight ends than ever before in the Ryan Day era. The duo grades the position group, dissects player usage, discusses scheme trends, and speculates on the future of each major contributor—with plenty of thoughtful tangents and signature banter.

Key Topics and Insights

Why So Many Tight Ends? (01:36–06:00)

• Discussion of Personnel Shift: Doug and Bill open with amazement at how the tight end room has ballooned, fundamentally shifting how Ohio State attacks on offense. Bill highlights that this hasn’t been possible in previous years due to limited depth (“All these guys can play… let’s find ways to use that”—Bill Landis, 04:14).
• Scheme Evolution: Ryan Day’s adaptability is cited as a driver—Ohio State had only two returning established receivers, so 12-, 13-, and even 14-personnel packages (two, three, four TEs on the field) became common to maximize available talent.
• NFL Influence: Bill connects the trend to the NFL, noting teams like the Rams using increased 13-personnel successfully, hinting at broader football evolution.

Who Are the Tight Ends? Usage & Snap Counts (02:53–03:50)

| Player | 2025 Snaps | |------------------|------------| | Will Kazmaric | 476 | | Max Claire | 438 | | Bennett Christian| 252 | | Nate Roberts | 160 | | Jelani Thurman | 135 |

“They’ve played five somewhat regularly… Three almost all the time, and two more specialized guys, but they can all play.”—Bill Landis (02:54)

Deep Dive: Nate Roberts, Fullback or TE? (07:43–11:11)

• Hybrid Role or Just a Moment? Doug ponders if Nate Roberts is auditioning for a new hybrid “fullback” role. Bill shuts it down:

  “I think it’s just a snapshot moment in time. This is not what they view him as… He’s a tight end they’re masquerading as a fullback because he’s a true freshman who they wanted to get on the field early.” —Bill Landis (09:09)

• Snap Alignment: Nate lined up in the backfield more than as an inline TE (Backfield: 80 snaps, Inline: 61 snaps).
• Coaching Challenge: Both agree Roberts’ role is more necessity than vision, and the coaching staff shoulders the blame if he's miscast.

The Core Tight Ends: Kazmaric & Claire (11:20–15:02)

• Kazmaric: Praised for consistency as the primary blocking tight end and reliability as a pass-catcher in a pinch. “He does his specific job well” (12:11).
• Claire: Utilized more as a pass-catcher, akin to a receiving TE in 12/13 personnel. Receiving numbers are down since his Purdue days, but that’s attributed to offensive context, not skill.
• Up-and-Down Performances: Whole room tends to rise and fall together—good (The Michigan game) and bad (Indiana, Wisconsin).

Transfer Portal Philosophy (15:02–18:11)

• Is Portal Shopping the Future? Doug asks whether leaning on transfers is sustainable. Bill says:

  “I could see them taking tight ends at a higher frequency than some other positions in the Portal, but I don’t think they want to be relying on the Portal for any one position.” (16:34)

• Tight end, a developmental spot, lends itself to transfers from lower levels who blossom—more than WR or OL.

Tight End Archetypes: Historic and Present (17:35–19:35)

• The ideal setup: One “inline blocker” (think Will Kazmaric), one “stand-up/receiving” TE (Claire). Reminiscent of Luke Farrell and Jeremy Ruckert pairing.

“Ryan Day has said, you don’t want to be in 12 personnel with two similar tight ends… having complementary skillsets is key.” —Bill Landis (18:11)

Usage Trends—Are They Overdoing It? (19:35–22:27)

• Ohio State now has the depth to use two or even more tight ends… and maybe they use it too much.
• Statistical history: Some previous years, the Buckeyes couldn’t consistently play two TEs; now the worry is over-reliance.

The “Best” Grouping? (20:45–21:49)

“Their best personnel grouping is 12 personnel—Kazmaric and Claire with Carnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith. Makes you bigger to run, and puts the defense in a bind.” —Bill Landis (20:55)

Bench Pieces & Next Year’s Forecast (22:14–25:56)

• Bennett Christian: Disappointing as a blocker, which was his high school specialty. “Not really been a strength of his while playing for Ohio State.” —Bill (22:14)
• Next Year? Bill projects: Claire & sophomore Nate Roberts as the starters, unless Claire heads to the NFL (23:19–23:35).
• Nate Roberts: Coaching staff “loves him,” strong physical tools, potential three-year starter (“Only tight end to ever break through as a true freshman that I can remember… they have really high expectations” —Bill, 25:03).

Jelani Thurman: Star-in-Waiting? (25:56–29:07)

• Big signing, huge expectations, minor goal-line/blocking role in heavy packages.
• “He’s their highest graded [tight end on PFF]… always going to be infatuated with him until there’s reason not to be.” —Bill Landis (27:04)
• Doug’s playoff “bold prediction”: Thurman catches a key touchdown.

Grades & Analytics (30:10–32:27)

• Subscriber Grade: Avg. 75/100 (Doug: 77, Bill: 79).

  “Congrats to the room, congrats to the roster construction. They just got to the point where they love it so much they can’t help themselves.” —Doug Lesmerises (31:28)

• Personnel Usage: 45% 11 personnel, 41% 12, 10% 13, with Ohio State ranking near the top nationally in 13/14 personnel usage ("They are outliers in how much they get into these big, big tight end packages.” —Bill, 32:21).
• Postseason Outlook: Expect slightly less 13/14 personnel as Ryan Day gets more hands-on and scheme is tailored to specific playoff defenses. Anticipate 12 personnel to be most common.

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “The art and the artist… you do have to separate them.” —Doug Lesmerises on grading TEs vs coaching usage (02:22)
• Doug Catfishing for OnlyFans: “Is that what OnlyFans is? Special mustache pictures for my ten dollar Substack…” (07:43) [light-hearted banter]
• On why tight ends sometimes all play poorly at once:

  “When one plays poorly, they sort of all play poorly… and I don’t know what that means.” —Bill Landis (12:00)

• On overusing all their depth:

  “It’s just like… they love it so much they can’t help themselves.” —Doug Lesmerises (31:28)

• “I think they’ll be less into those big packages in the postseason… Maybe their most used grouping will be 12 personnel.” —Bill Landis (33:42)

Segment Timestamps

• Opening and Tight End Boom: 01:36–06:00
• Player Snap Counts & Usage: 02:53–03:50
• Nate Roberts Breakdown: 07:43–11:11
• Kazmaric & Claire Assessment: 11:20–15:02
• Transfer Philosophy: 15:02–18:11
• TE Pairings & Skillsets: 17:35–19:35
• Roster Construction & Best Grouping: 19:35–21:49
• Depth Chart for 2026: 22:14–25:56
• Jelani Thurman Conundrum: 25:56–29:07
• Grades & Analytics: 30:10–32:27
• Postseason/Big Picture Outlook: 32:27–33:42

Tone & Takeaways

Doug and Bill maintain their usual blend of humor, in-depth technical discussion, and a “put the fans first” philosophy. The overall verdict: Ohio State’s tight end room is healthy and talented—possibly even a little too deep for its own good—but questions remain about usage, player development, and whether the team is maximizing its match-up advantages. Expect some course correction in the playoffs and a bright future for big names like Nate Roberts and Jelani Thurman.

For the diehards and the casuals alike, this is your definitive breakdown of the 2025 Ohio State tight end room.