Ohio State vs. Indiana: Breaking down the Hoosiers with Taylor Lehman

Summary

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The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State vs. Indiana – Breaking Down the Hoosiers with Taylor Lehman

Podcast: The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Host: Bill Landis (Blue Wire)
Guest: Taylor Lehman (Bite Sized Bison, Substack; Indiana Hoosiers Analyst)
Date: December 4, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode features a comprehensive preview of the 2025 Big Ten Championship matchup between Ohio State and Indiana. Bill Landis is joined by Taylor Lehman, Indiana Hoosiers expert and creator of the analytics-driven newsletter Bite Sized Bison. Together, they discuss the strengths and vulnerabilities on both sides, the evolution of Indiana’s program, key matchups, and the mindsets heading into a rare No. 1 vs. No. 2 showdown. The discussion leans heavily into advanced stats and game-planning intricacies, with practical info for fans of both teams.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Reflections on Coverage and Analytics (01:35-03:21)

• Taylor’s Unique Career Path:

  • Transitioned from sports journalism (formerly covered Ohio State recruiting at 11 Warriors) to college football analytics, blending writing and data science.
  • “I've really enjoyed kind of serving this role in the college football analytics market and kind of, you know, highlighting my strange path from sports journalism to, to data science.” (02:25, Taylor)

• Analytical Approach: Taylor’s Bite Sized Bison site has provided a different, data-driven lens for examining teams like Indiana and Ohio State.

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2. Ohio State’s Strength & Schedule Evaluation (03:26–04:55)

• Debate over OSU’s Schedule:

  • Bill notes that the Buckeyes’ schedule, once believed tough, didn’t play out that way due to opponents’ down years.
  • "It's hard to figure it out when the level of competition is what it is." (03:26, Bill)

• Taylor’s View from the Indiana Side:

  • Indiana fans (and Taylor) respect OSU’s dominance regardless of schedule.
  • Their own “opponent adjusted EPA model” has Ohio State as far and away elite.
  • "Ohio State is just, man, top right of that graph ... they’ve been dominant regardless of who they're playing." (04:55, Taylor)

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3. Analytics-Based Gap Between Programs (05:59–06:51)

• Indiana’s Proximity to OSU (Analytics):
  • Indiana sits at the top of the “second tier” behind OSU in Taylor’s model; for some metrics, it’s almost 50–50.
  • “I think Ohio State probably has the slight edge by the analytics, but it's—it is—it's gonna be a close game, I believe.” (06:09, Taylor)

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4. How Indiana Has Changed Since Last Year (07:47–09:36)

• Mindset and Experience:
  • Indiana is more battle-tested (road wins at Iowa, Oregon, Penn State).
  • Improved communication and comfort in tough environments; last year, offensive struggles were largely tied to crowd noise and inexperience.
  • “A year’s difference has made a ... pretty big change for this team.” (07:47, Taylor)
  • Talent floor has improved significantly, especially on defensive front—transfers from power programs (Notre Dame, Maryland, Ole Miss, Colorado).

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5. Focus on Indiana’s Quarterback & Offensive System (09:36–12:22)

• Fernando Mendoza (QB):
  • Unique blend of experience and talent—has more snaps than most QBs OSU has faced.
  • Highly cerebral: “I've never heard anybody talk or analyze the game like Fernando Mendoza in terms of like college quarterbacks ... his pre snap and his post snap reads have been really impressive.” (10:35, Taylor)
  • Benefits from Mike Shanahan’s (OC) sophisticated scheme—one of the nation's rising coordinators.
  • OSU’s defense will challenge his ability to recognize disguised looks.

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6. Hoosiers Receivers: Strength and Versatility (14:23–18:26)

• Omar Cooper Jr.:
  • Has emerged as a versatile, dynamic weapon (despite starting as a slot only due to injury to Michigan transfer Tyler Morris).
  • “He's a huge YAC guy ... that’s kind of, you know, Ohio State knows that, and so they're ... going to hit him at the point of attack and ensure he's on the ground, but it's easier said than done.” (15:20, Taylor)
  • NFL tools—a tough matchup for OSU.
• Other Threats:
  • Elijah Surratt and Charlie Becker (deep threat, breakout sophomore): “He was not on anybody's radar ... but yeah, he’s a deep threat and a lot of people compare him to Alec Pierce on the Colts now.” (16:51, Taylor)
  • TE Riley Nowakowski has developed into a significant YAC threat.

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7. Indiana’s Running Game & O-Line Depth (18:26–20:59)

• Tendency for Zone-Heavy Scheme:

  • Generally effective but struggles vs. elite fronts and in short yardage, especially if Drew Evans (guard) is out.
  • Acknowledges OSU’s defense matches up well versus zone-run.
  • “I don't think that'll fly against a front like Ohio State ... that is like a major vulnerability for Indiana now.” (19:05, Taylor)

• Personnel Depth:

  • Questions arise on right tackle/right guard configurations (injuries, former OSU player Zemohovsky is utility backup).

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8. Indiana Defensive Front – Depth and Disruption (21:35–24:52)

• Front Four Standouts:

  • Tyreek Tucker (JMU transfer), Jose Wheeler (Western Kentucky), and standout pass rusher Mario Landino: “He has the highest amongst defensive tackles in the FBS, I want to say.” (22:24, Taylor)
  • “They attack from the interior” and rotate up to four disruptive guys.

• Edge Pressure:

  • Mikhail Kamara and Stephen Daly lead position groups; Daly tied for the national lead in TFL since taking over.
  • “The rate that he’s been getting into the backfield is pretty insane.” (23:49, Taylor)

• Creative Blitz Packages:

  • Frequent LB involvement; attacks often originate in the front—not just schemed pressure but genuine talent.

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9. Indiana Secondary – Anchored by D’Angelo Ponds (24:52–27:19)

• CB D’Angelo Ponds:
  • “He kind of anchors half of the field in terms of communication and reads ... he's been great, and so ... he works really well on run defense, too, so he kind of does it all.” (25:25, Taylor)
• Secondary Vulnerabilities:
  • CB2 (Jamari Sharp) sometimes yields big plays, especially under pressure.
  • Safeties (Amari Farrell, Lewis Moore) are playmakers but have been put in vulnerable positions before.
  • Scheme notes: IU usually sticks to Cover 3, rarely goes two-high.

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10. Defensive Philosophy: Pressure vs. Coverage (29:37–31:08)

• IU’s Plan for OSU Offense:
  • Primary focus will be on generating QB pressure rather than masking everything with varied coverages.
  • “I do anticipate them ... trying to generate pressure first and foremost before necessarily adjusting cover schemes.” (30:27, Taylor)
  • Indiana’s defensive front could present the toughest look OSU’s O-line has seen all year.

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11. Mindset: Championship and National Title Stakes (31:08–34:09)

• Indiana’s Approach:

  • Treating the championship as a “one-game season” with full focus before a long break until the playoff.
  • “This is the only litmus test for either of these teams ... you get to do that without, you know, a trap door beneath you in terms of like the College Football Playoff.” (32:40, Taylor)
  • Extra motivation to show growth after last year’s loss; opportunity for both to measure against "elite" competition in a rare No. 1 vs. No. 2 matchup.

• Ohio State's Perspective:

  • Biggest challenge of the season; rare that OSU has played a full four-quarter game this year.

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Notable Quotes

• “Ohio State is just, man, top right of that graph ... they've been dominant regardless of who they're playing.” (04:55, Taylor Lehman)
• “A year’s difference has made a ... pretty big change for this team.” (07:47, Taylor Lehman)
• “I've never heard anybody talk or analyze the game like Fernando Mendoza ... his pre snap and his post snap reads have been really impressive.” (10:35, Taylor Lehman)
• “He's a huge YAC guy ... they're going to be, you know, looking to hit him at the point of attack and ensure he's on the ground, but it's easier said than done.” (15:20, Taylor Lehman, on Omar Cooper Jr.)
• "...this is the only litmus test for either of these teams and, and then you get to do that without, you know, a trap door beneath you in terms of ... the College Football Playoff.” (32:40, Taylor Lehman)

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 01:35 – 03:21: Taylor’s career & unique approach with analytics
• 03:26 – 04:55: OSU’s schedule and perception
• 06:09 – 06:51: Where Indiana stands analytically vs. OSU
• 07:47 – 09:36: Indiana’s year-over-year growth; roster and mindset
• 10:35 – 12:22: QB Fernando Mendoza’s strengths
• 14:23 – 18:26: Indiana WR corps & offensive threats
• 18:26 – 20:59: IU’s running game, OL, and schematic challenges
• 21:35 – 24:52: Defensive front personnel and disruptive capability
• 24:52 – 27:19: Secondary breakdown; D’Angelo Ponds
• 29:37 – 31:08: Indiana’s defensive philosophy for the game
• 31:08 – 34:09: Mindset and stakes of No. 1 vs. No. 2 showdown

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Final Thoughts & Calls to Action

• Taylor Lehman’s Preview: Will post a detailed game preview on Bite Sized Bison Thursday night.
• Crimson Cast Appearance: Taylor will also join IU’s "Crimson Cast" podcast.
• Bill’s Recommendation: “Go to Bite Sized Bison and read Taylor’s preview. Go listen to Crimson Cast if you want to learn more about the Hoosiers when Taylor’s on there before this game on Saturday.” (35:52, Bill)
• Both sides see this game as the pivotal test heading into the CFP, with mutual respect and plenty to prove.

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This summary captures the expertise, camaraderie, and deep analysis that make The Bill and Doug Show a must-listen for Ohio State (and Big Ten) football fans looking to understand the full context of the 2025 Big Ten Championship Game.

Transcript

[Taylor Lehman]

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[Bill Landis]

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[Taylor Lehman]

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[Bill Landis]

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[Taylor Lehman]

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[Bill Landis]

Shopping was done in a flurry.

[Taylor Lehman]

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[Bill Landis]

Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show. I'm Bill Landis joined by a special guest today. It is Taylor Layman who writes about the Indiana Hoosiers for at least a little bit longer. Right, Taylor? Like a couple, couple more days over at Bite sized Bison on Substack. We were talking, Taylor before we started. You're getting ready to, to be done with that. But I will say, and I'll tell people why they can still go check it out. One of the best college football sites. I think like you, you just approach covering college football from a pretty unique perspective. And the way you use numbers and data analytics to, to kind of write about college football, I think you're, you're doing it unlike most of the people who cover the sport. So I'm kind of bummed, man. I'm, I'm upset. I'm not going to be able to read it after, after this season. But we want to tap into your Indiana expertise one more time if we could.

[Taylor Lehman]

Yeah, I appreciate it, Billy. I'm definitely going to miss it. I, I've, I've really enjoyed kind of serving this role in the college football analytics market and kind of, you know, highlighting my strange path from sports journalism to, to data science. So kind of putting the two things together. You know, you don't really put, you know, writing and numbers together, but, but been a good, a good experience and I've really enjoyed kind of being able to hang on to my sports writing career a little bit longer and talk about games like this with, with people like you.

[Bill Landis]

I will say, and people may, may know this because we have Ohio State fans. You used to write about Ohio State recruiting for 11 warriors, and I would bet that you're the first person to go from 11 warriors recruiting writer to professional data scientist.

[Taylor Lehman]

Yeah, I'll fact check that one. I'll have to, you know, text Dan after this and see.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. And congratulations, you know, on.

Moving on the bigger and better things. We'll miss you covering college football, but do want to pick your brain here about this game on Saturday? Ohio State, Indiana, Big Ten championship. Before we talk about the Hoosiers, I, I kind of want to flip a question that you asked me sort of back on you. I did a little Q A for your bite size Bison substack page earlier this week and you, you asked me sort of like how people should view Ohio State, given that Ohio State's schedule, you know, like, coming into the year actually looked kind of difficult and then just like, didn't play out that way. And that's, that's not really Ohio State's fault. But, but it is what it is. And I do think that sort of made it difficult for people perhaps to like, get a really good handle on like, just exactly how good Ohio State is. I don't think there's anybody saying, like, actually they're not very good, but, but, you know, it's hard to figure it out when the level of competition is what it is. So from your perspective, like, what, what do you make of the Buckeyes given that? And, and what do you think maybe like Indiana fans think of the Buckeyes given just how the season has played out for them?

[Taylor Lehman]

I mean, look, as somebody who, you know, followed Indiana in 2024, I know full well what it's like for a schedule to not be as strong as it was going into the season. But I, you know, and I think that, I think that experience, I honestly have not Seen a lot of Indiana fans talking about Ohio State's schedule. I think Indiana fans know Ohio State is a good, A good football team, a good football program. And I, you know, I keep, I created my own.

Opponent adjusted EPA model and, and you know, Ohio State is just, man, top right of that graph, like, as far as it so much for like, it's, it's, it's insane. They've been dominant regardless of who they're playing. And you know, I, I think, I think as, as an Indiana observer and the Indiana fans, as fans, I think that they respect that. You know, sometimes your schedule, especially in the new Big Ten, without the divisions is not going to be as strong as it has been historically. I know the Big east, man, that was. God, that was tough though, for, for Indiana fan. I mean, for Odyssey fans too. But you know, for Indiana fans, it's just like punching against those powers every year was insane. But, you know, yeah, I, I think there's a lot of respect there. You know, Indiana fans, most of them are not ridiculous either.

[Bill Landis]

I, I don't, I don't miss the days of Ohio State having to play Rutgers in Maryland every year, if I'm being honest.

[Taylor Lehman]

Fair enough.

[Bill Landis]

The.

You're. So your, your numbers that you said, like Ohio State's way up there in the corner, right? How close is Indiana to them based off, off the stuff that you've kind of run through the machine this year?

[Taylor Lehman]

Yeah, Indiana, you know, in those specific opponent adjusted metrics, there's just. For like EPA offensive defense, I think Ohio State's kind of in a league of their own and Indiana is, is at the top of the second tier and that, that's the way that it's been for most of the year. But you know, I will say in terms of some of the other metrics, Indiana is right there. I mean, it just, it just looks 50, 50 at this, like very close to 50, 50. You know, I think I would say Ohio State probably has the slight edge by the analytics, but it's, it's, it is. It's gonna be a close game, I, I believe.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I kind of, I kind of think so too. And the spreads come down a little bit too. I think it's like opened at five and a half and it's creeping down toward four now. I'm interested to see where exactly that will end. So. So obviously these teams played last year, it was like kind of close for a half and it got a little wonky toward halftime for Indiana and they just kind of couldn't quite get back into the game. And I do think, I think there's this prevailing thought that the gap between these two teams is, is huge. And I suppose last year you could say that like maybe in the end it was obviously this year what you just laid out. That does not appear to be the case. So this is like a kind of a bigger picture thing, I guess. But, but feel free to take it in any direction you want. Like Ohio State fans who watched Indiana play the Buckeyes last year, when they see them play this Saturday, what do you think they'll notice as the biggest difference between Indiana this year and Indiana last year?

[Taylor Lehman]

Yeah, when. Man, a year's difference has made a, a pretty big, a pretty big change for, for this, this team. It's, I would say last year they were not ready for that type of a game. And, and you know, I remember going into the game it was like they're going into, you know, Ohio State. Like that's, that's a, that's a very big deal. Something they hadn't done all season. This season they've gone to Iowa, they've gone to Oregon, they've gone to Penn State. They won all three of those games. So they've shown that they can play in tough environments and last year they hadn't done that. So you know, a big part of the offensive breakdowns was the noise and they didn't have answers for how to communicate by pre snap and in the stadium. And they've appeared to have answered those questions now and solved that challenge. But, and, but I will say, you know, just, just as far as the roster goes, the baseline talent is a bit higher than it was last season. Last season they were working with a lot of, you know, group of five, group of six players, transfers and some FCS guys too. This year it's like they pull guys from Kent State. Well, they pulled Pat Cogan from Notre Dame, Roman Hemby from Maryland, you know, Lewis Moore back from, from Ole Miss and, and Khalil Benson from Colorado. So they have a lot of, a lot of like actual. The, the floor of the talent has, has increased and you'll see the defensive front especially there. This, that defensive front is very impressive and is built on some, some legitimate talent that's not just being schemed into positions to make plays but, but is actually, you know, sizable.

[Bill Landis]

I do want to talk about the, that defensive front because I think it's a great matchup with Ohio State's offensive line kind of coming off like its best performance of the season against Michigan. But I'll I'll stick on the offensive side first. Like speaking of sort of like new guys coming into the program, obviously Fernando Mendoza, the quarter is one of those players. And Ohio State, I would say has, has faced some talented quarterbacks this year, but they've all been young, they've been freshmen, red shirt freshmen kind of kind of guys or Demond Williams Jr. True sophomore kind of thing. Aside from like, like Luke Altmire and Nathan Cali Mattis I guess are, are kind of a different profile, but I don't. They've not seen a quarterback who has the talent that Mendoza has. And the experience like that combination is just going to be something new for Ohio State. And I'm wondering from, from your perspective, having watched Fernando all year, the talent is, is one thing, like where do you see his experience show up the most? Like, how much has that mattered for Indiana this year?

[Taylor Lehman]

Sorry, my cat just jumped over the desk. I think, you know, I think, yeah. I was also looking at the quarterbacks that Ohio State has played and, and I actually looked at their career snaps before they played Ohio State. Fernando Mendoza has the second most of the opposing quarterbacks going into the Ohio State game this season. And I think that makes a big difference. I'm really excited to see how Fernando Mendoza, I mean I've, I've said this to people before but you know, the, the intangibles idea of, of any leader in sports, especially the quarterback position, has kind of become cliche. I, I've, whenever somebody says he has the intangibles, I'm like, okay, well a lot of guys do, you know, but you know, covering football as long as I have at this point and, and talking to as many quarterbacks as I have, I've never heard anybody talk or analyze the game like Fernando Mendoza in terms of like college quarterbacks and, and so his pre snap and his post snap reads have been really impressive. You know, something about Ohio State is that, you know, their verse, their, their defense is so versatile, they can disguise so many actions that you know, Fernando Mendoza is going to put in the work before Saturday to be able to, you know, diagnose those types of things, whether he can or not is something that I'm excited to see. But I think he's, I think that's one thing. And you know, also Mike Shanahan's scheme as well. He's, he's, he's not only one of the more one of the smartest quarterbacks with a great arm, but he is also running a scheme for an officer coordinator that's one of the rising offensive coordinators in the country and if not one of the best already. And so I think think that kind of creates like a complete kind of attack in a way that I don't know if Ohio, if Ohio State has seen so far.

[Bill Landis]

No, I, I don't think so.

[Taylor Lehman]

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[Bill Landis]

We were talking to Ohio State's players on Wednesday night and I was specifically listening to Jalen McLean, Ohio State safety, talk about the Indiana offense. You can tell they're they're like gearing up for something different than they've seen so far. And and Jalen like specifically was pretty complimentary of this receiver core that Indiana is going to bring into this game. I remember reading in the off season you had a really cool story about Omar Cooper Jr. And just like based off what his numbers were last year and sort of his usage compared to other players who profiled similarly. Similarly that he was going to have a pretty big jump this year. And that obviously has happened. I know Doug and I both had him as one of our three semi finalists for the Blitnikov already. Obviously he didn't, he didn't make it that far, but the two of us did vote for him. What has his season been like? Omar Cooper Jr. And then I guess maybe a little more generally. How do these Indiana receivers sort of play off of each other with their various skill sets?

[Taylor Lehman]

Yeah, that's, That's a, That's a really good question. I'm glad you guys recognize Omar Cooper before the season, too. He's, he's kind of a, a fan favorite and, and I actually, I like him personally, working with his family and stuff during his career process. So. But no, I think, I think as far as Omar Cooper and his growth, he, he's gotten stronger and, and I think that's, That's a big change from before the Signetti era, before Derrick Owings, the strength conditioning coach, showed up that that needed to happen. And, you know, he also had to move into the slot position because he, he did not play much slot last season. And the reason why he had moved into slot was because the Michigan transfer receiver, Tyler Morris, he was going to initially play the slot position and then he got hurt and he's out for the season. So Omar Cooper had to step in and there were questions about whether he could do it. And, but he has, and, and now he's kind of turned into a receiver who can play really anywhere along the line of scrimmage and, and really catch balls in, in all areas of the field. And so they're gonna hit, they're gonna hit him deep. But against Oregon, you know, his average depth of target was like 3 yards. And so he's a huge yak guy. And I think that's kind of, you know, Ohio State knows that, and so they're, they're going to be, you know, looking to hit him at the point of. Of attack and ensure he's on the ground, but it's easier said than done. And in terms of that, I, I think he will also be like, probably, probably the toughest offensive matchup for Ohio State because, because of his versatility and athleticism, I, I think he has a chance to be in the NFL, but is in terms of, like, how all the receivers play off of each other, it's, it's been really interesting actually, because you Have Omar Cooper at the slot. Elijah surround. Of course he's going to be perimeter. He's going to be, he was going to be good. He's taken a step forward and you know he had a hamstring injury that kept him out for a few weeks recently. Omar Cooper stepped up and was the number one receiver then. But in that time, true sophomore receiver Charlie Becker really, really broke out like a six, four runs off four four forty and, and he's like it. I don't think really anybody knew that he was capable of doing this except for maybe the offensive staff at Indiana. So he was not on anybody's radar and, and I figured he would end up red shirting or something. But, but yeah, he, he, he's a deep threat and a lot of people compare him to Alec Pierce on the Colts now. So you know he'll, he'll challenge deep. He also gets some yak. So you know you have Elijah surround in the perimeter. E.J. williams, the Clemson transfer receiver, he's a possession receiver on the perimeter, but I would say Charlie Becker and Omar Cooper probably the two most dynamic guys. And then Riley Nowakowski, the Titan has also found his way into the passing attack. Really big yak tight end which is, which also was not on anybody's radar going into the season. It's been interesting how that passing attacks developed.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I just. Ohid has not played a lot of guys that I think can, can hurt you that way and certainly not a, not a collection of them I think the way that Indiana will have them. So I'm pretty fired up to see what that looks like. Indiana running the ball like I, I would say and I'm just looking sort of like at raw numbers. I know you, you look at it from a deeper perspective like profiles as a very good running team. But then you look at some of the games against the better defenses and you see that efficiency drop a little bit and I understand that like sacks are worked into that as well. So like given all that, like how would you assess how they've run the ball, especially against the better defenses Indiana has faced this year?

[Taylor Lehman]

Yeah, you know, they've run the ball well, but there is the feeling that it could be stopped, you know, and, and I'll, I'll say, you know, the interior, especially the guard play has been concerning, especially with the, the, the injury to Drew Evans. The short yardage rushing game has really been a struggle all season. Mike Shanahan's kind of tried a bunch of different things to make that work and to varying degrees of success. But I, the success they found against Purdue on the ground last week was somewhat surprising and like, just, just the explosion they were able to find through the running game. You know, I, I am not as confident in the running game in this one, especially. What you had brought to my attention in the Q and A you did with BSB is that, you know, Ohio State can, can be susceptible to some gap, gap schemes, and Indiana does not run gap schemes very often. They, they lean heavy into zone schemes. And so I don't think that'll, I don't think that'll fly against a front like Ohio State. So, yeah, that does, that does. I think that is like a major vulnerability for Indiana now. You know, they do run a lot of rpo, which I think can be helpful. But, you know, I, I, I, I think they're also, you know, they're also aware of this. So I think that they'll, they'll, they'll be scheming for this with this expectation. But I am curious if Drew Evans comes back. If Drew Evans is back. I think that helps a lot of things, but without Drew Evans. I don't know, man.

[Bill Landis]

Just quick, quickly on the O line because I saw some, some people were asking us this on, on Substack, and actually I didn't have a great answer for them because I'm just not familiar enough. Zemohovsky, how much does he actually play for the Hoosiers?

[Taylor Lehman]

Yeah, so there were thoughts that he would start at right tackle and, and that maybe Khalil Benson would be a right guard, but that didn't play out. The callski. He, he, he's essentially just a kind of a utility backup offensive lineman, so he'll step in at left guard. He was stepping in a left guard for, uh, for Drew Evans until, uh, Adenimola A Johnny really kind of grew into himself, and then he'll back up Khalil Benson, though, at right tackle. Kulo Benson's going through some injury stuff right now, so there's some questions about health. He might end up being the right tackle depending on how things fall.

[Bill Landis]

Interesting. Okay. All right. That's gonna be fun to watch some old Ohio State practice matchups, maybe on the other side, Indiana's defense. So I've, I've not watched enough Indiana yet. I've, I've been like, making my way through the Oregon game, going back and watching it, and I'm watching this defensive line and I'm thinking two things. Like, one, like, they do actually look a little undersized to me, but two man, they get after it just really given Oregon, who I think has one of the better offensive lines in the country, a ton of problems. Like what, what makes that group go. You mentioned earlier that like it's. They're not just being schemed into advantageous positions. So what makes this defensive line that you know, has a couple JMU guys has a couple other up transfers up front. Like what. What makes that group tick? What makes them difficult for teams to handle?

[Taylor Lehman]

Yeah, yeah. I mean a lot of it is scheme, but the. Not as much as last season. It, you know, they're making plays based off their individual talent in more ways than maybe last season's team was. But yeah, I think, you know, they really attack from the interior. So that, that's like Tyreek Tucker, who is a JME transfer. He's been really solid. He's a first team, you know, all defensive ball, Big Ten defensive player this year. And so it really starts with him. And then, you know, there's Jose Wheeler who's the Western Kentucky transfer that a lot of Power 4 schools were looking at. Indiana brought him in and he'll kind of switch the nose tackle with Tucker and then Mario Landino. He's a true song. Yeah, yeah, he, he, he is. He has the highest uh, pass rushing, uh, production, uh, you know, PFF's metric. He has the highest amongst defensive tackles in the fbs, I want to say. So he's, he's been really solid and, and he'll, he'll continue to be solid for Indiana moving forward. But they have a rotation of interior guys that's, that's how they've kind of pressured a lot of younger quarterbacks. And so I, that's something that I'm going to be watching is the inter. Which I'm always watching is the interior defensive line for Indiana. They also rotate in Dominic Ratcliffe too. So they have four guys there that really get after it in the interior. But then Mikhail Kamara, he hasn't been as productive in the box score, but he's. He, I mean he leads the Big Ten and quarterback pressures, he just, they haven't resulted in anything. And then Stephen Daly, the. Stephen Daly is. He's been kind of insane. He, he took over as like the starting defensive end. He kind of shared duties with Maryland transfer Kellen Wyatt until Kellen Wyatt was hurt the. For the year. And Stephen Daly, he's tied for the lead and tackles for loss in the country and, and after taking over in week five. So I mean the rate that he's been getting into the backfield is pretty insane. And, you know, a lot of it is because, yeah, they attack, they. They attack from the defensive front, but they also get their linebackers involved in some pretty creative ways, too. It makes it really hard to predict as an opposing quarterback what Indiana is going to do. Honestly, it's. I wouldn't, I wouldn't draw like a direct parallel to Ohio State, but, like, the idea is. Is kind of there, except they just. They attack from the defensive front where Ohio State doesn't do that quite as much.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. Another player on this defense who I love and a lot of people love, d' Angelo Ponds, cornerback I went back through to see last year. So I think last year was targeted seven times, gave up three catches, was targeted three times in coverage against Jeremiah Smith, who high school teammate with or maybe more teammates with the same high school, and he gave up one catch on those three targets. What kind of season is Ponds having? And then obviously he's an excellent corner. Like, how's the rest of the secondary fared? Sort of around that, that one kind of star defensive back.

[Taylor Lehman]

Yeah, d' Angelo Pounds have been awesome. He missed the Iowa game and it was really felt. And it's interesting because Iowa doesn't really. They don't have a great passing game. Right. But, but he, he kind of anchors half of the field in terms of communication and, and reads because they, the cornerbacks do a lot of reading in this, in this defense. So missing him actually had a lot of consequences that people wouldn't have anticipated. You would think that's just one corner, but the one sideline, but it's really, it's more than that in this defense. So he's really central to what they do. And honestly, I mean, when he was coming in five, nine, I was, I was like, I don't know, man. Is it. Can he. Can it translate? It certainly has. And he's been, he's been great. And so, you know, I think he works really well on run defense, too, so he kind of does it all. And, But I will say, like the secondary around him, there have been some moments where they, they're either, they're either great, they're making plays. Amari Farrell and Lewis Moore, the two safeties, they've had their fair share of interceptions. I can't remember how many off the top of my head, but. But I will say CB2, Jamari Sharp, he. He tends to surrender some big plays, so. Especially in big games. And so I, I'm. I am kind of watching him. But the safeties, Kurt Signetti he kind of said earlier in the season that they were putting things on tape that teams weren't taking advantage of, but that could hurt them in future games. And so I'm kind of watching that, you know, the, the big plays, they surrendered a big play to Illinois and, and I mean, nothing really after that. But like, you know, those explosive plays, they make a difference in games like these. So the safeties, you know, helping over the top, I think is, is gonna be interesting. But I'm also interested, Bill, and how.

What coverage scheme they use because they go cover three. Yeah, they do a lot of COVID three. And I know that, you know, as you noted in the, in the Q A, that teams have tended to go too high and try to, you know, cap, you know, the, the Ohio State offense. I am curious to see what, how Indiana does with that. They don't do a ton of, they don't do a ton of too high safety. So I'm curious if they're willing to surrender the, their two, their safeties within their, their attack mode. But I mean, I know Ohio State runs a lot of 12 personnel, so that's going to require three linebackers, usually in Indiana's case. So it might be natural. Anyway, we'll see.

And Doug, here we have the Limu.

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[Taylor Lehman]

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[Bill Landis]

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[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I was curious of that myself because, like, actually for a lot of the year, Ohio State was seeing a fair amount of COVID 3 because for some strange reason teams were like defending Ohio State to stop their run first. And it was sort of frustrating to, to not see Ohio State sort of start to make teams pay for that by throwing it on the moor. And then like kind of in the Wisconsin game they started to do that. And then I think kind of from that point forward did start to see some more kind of split safety stuff and saw a ton of it against Michigan and, and actually finally found a way to beat it, obviously. But yeah, I was, I was going to ask you, like, what do you expect Indiana to do? Or, or if Indiana is like, what, planned for stopping or maybe not stopping, but. But trying to limit Ohio State's passing attack is even. Does it even start on the back end or is it more about generating pressure and trying to make Julian saying uncomfortable, comfortable?

[Taylor Lehman]

Yeah, it definitely starts with generating pressure. And, and I, you know, I know Michigan's defensive front is, is, is pretty good, but I, you know, Texas is very good, but I, I still don't think that, that this offensive line has seen a defensive front like Indiana's. And so I, I'm curious to see how much pressure they can generate. And I will say, you know, Brian Haynes is, he's been very good, you know, changing game plans on the fly in the middle of games. So, you know, if it's not working, I could see them making a change. But I do anticipate them gen, like trying to generate pressure first and foremost before necessarily adjusting cover schemes.

[Bill Landis]

Okay, well, we'll end here, pull back a little bit because I'm just curious about like, mindsets, I guess, coming into this game because we've been asked a little bit about Ohio State just had this massively emotional win against Michigan. Snap that losing streak to them. Is there any hangover from that? Or maybe even in addition to that, like, how much does Ohio State really, really motivated to go win a Big Ten championship when it sort of has like, grander aspirations to win the national title. But obviously, like Indiana's number two team in the country, they have, they have those too. Right? I don't think Indiana is just sort of like, happy to be here. They're trying to play for a national championship as well. But for, for a program that just like you know, is going to this game for the first time. I'm wondering what. Look, is there pressure on Indiana in this game? Is, is there any element of like, listen, that's, this is the team in front of us, we're going to play, but we're also like looking beyond that because we want to win a national title too. Like, what do you think Indiana's mindset is coming in, coming into this game?

[Taylor Lehman]

Yeah, Chris Ignetti said that they're treating it like a one game season where you know, they, you, you play this game and then you have like 30 days of rest afterwards. And so they're basically like, you know, one more and you know, I'm sure I, I, you know, I'm sure there is an aspect of this team wants to avenge what happened last season. And you know, I don't know if cursing that he's saying that to the, to the team, but I think there's an error of that because coming out of that game.

From, from various quotes and, and it just seemed like Indiana didn't put on its best face in that game in the way that it could have. And so, you know, maybe, maybe you don't drop that punt. You know, maybe, maybe you have an answer for the crowd noise. And, and, and you know, also that they had the injury on the interior, the offensive line that, that you know, they, they struggled with. And so, you know, I, I think that there's motivation to kind of show that, you know, that this, this, this is not the same team as, as the last team that Ohio State played. So you know, one thing that I do like about this game is that, you know, it's kind of in some rare territory now where, you know, there is anticipation, like a ton of anticipation for this game. It's one and two playing each other. You know, these are the only two teams that, that can, that they can measure themselves against. Like no other. Not playing any other team is going to, to show how, how quality, like what quality of team either team is. I know I just said a lot right there, but you know, but like this is, this is the only litmus test for either of these teams and, and then you get to do that without, you know, a trap door beneath you in terms of like the College Football Playoff. And so you learn about a lot about your team going into the playoff and I think that's kind of where cursing that his head is at is like they're going to give it 100 because they need to learn about themselves in ways that maybe they couldn't Before.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I think that's true of both teams. It's certainly true for Ohio State like that. This is absolutely the best team Ohio State will have played this year. I think Indiana's been a little more tested. I'll be interested to see, you know, assuming it's a four quarter game, like Ohio State hasn't played one of those. Indiana's played a couple of them. Ohio State hasn't trailed in the second half yet. So like, what, what's that look like if Indiana is able to build a little bit of a leave like you said, like you can, you can get answers to all those questions without anyone's season unraveling, sort of like, you know, beneath them because they're both going to get buys in, in the playoff anyway. So super exciting to watch it. Also, our Doug looked this up. There's been 100, I think he said there's been 108 conference championship games in the, in the power conferences. And this is only the third time it's been 1 versus 2. So the others were Florida versus Saban Meyer, Florida, Alabama games. So this is, this is rare air, as you said. So I'm fired up for it. I know you are as well. Do you have anything going on this week at Bite Sized Bison before the game that people can check out?

[Taylor Lehman]

I'm releasing the, the preview.

[Bill Landis]

The, the Really?

[Taylor Lehman]

I don't, I don't publish a ton at the, on, on the newsletter, but I publish long pieces and so the preview will be long. Yeah, I need an editor. Yeah, no, they're great.

[Bill Landis]

They're great.

[Taylor Lehman]

Yeah.

There'S, I'll be publishing that Thursday, Thursday night. And then I'll also be jumping onto a podcast called Crimson Cast, which is probably IU's best podcast on on the Beat. And so those guys are great and they're really thoughtful. So I, I, those are the, those are the two major things and then, you know, it's game time.

[Bill Landis]

You should check out Crimson Cast because Galen Clavio has tremendous hair. So like, if nothing else, you get that, you get to watch him and see. So, okay, so go to Bite Size Bison and read Taylor's preview. Go listen to Crimson Cast if you want to learn more about the Hoosiers when Taylor's on there before this game on Saturday. Taylor Lehman, thank you so much, man, for your time. We appreciate it. We appreciate your expertise and have fun. Enjoy. Enjoy watching the game on Saturday.

[Taylor Lehman]

Appreciate it, Bill.

[Bill Landis]

All right, that will do it for this episode. I'm Bill Andis. Thank you guys so much for watching The Bill and Doug Show.

[Taylor Lehman]

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