The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State vs. Indiana – Breaking Down the Hoosiers with Taylor Lehman

Podcast: The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Host: Bill Landis (Blue Wire)
Guest: Taylor Lehman (Bite Sized Bison, Substack; Indiana Hoosiers Analyst)
Date: December 4, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features a comprehensive preview of the 2025 Big Ten Championship matchup between Ohio State and Indiana. Bill Landis is joined by Taylor Lehman, Indiana Hoosiers expert and creator of the analytics-driven newsletter Bite Sized Bison. Together, they discuss the strengths and vulnerabilities on both sides, the evolution of Indiana’s program, key matchups, and the mindsets heading into a rare No. 1 vs. No. 2 showdown. The discussion leans heavily into advanced stats and game-planning intricacies, with practical info for fans of both teams.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Reflections on Coverage and Analytics (01:35-03:21)

• Taylor’s Unique Career Path:

  • Transitioned from sports journalism (formerly covered Ohio State recruiting at 11 Warriors) to college football analytics, blending writing and data science.
  • “I've really enjoyed kind of serving this role in the college football analytics market and kind of, you know, highlighting my strange path from sports journalism to, to data science.” (02:25, Taylor)

• Analytical Approach: Taylor’s Bite Sized Bison site has provided a different, data-driven lens for examining teams like Indiana and Ohio State.

2. Ohio State’s Strength & Schedule Evaluation (03:26–04:55)

• Debate over OSU’s Schedule:

  • Bill notes that the Buckeyes’ schedule, once believed tough, didn’t play out that way due to opponents’ down years.
  • "It's hard to figure it out when the level of competition is what it is." (03:26, Bill)

• Taylor’s View from the Indiana Side:

  • Indiana fans (and Taylor) respect OSU’s dominance regardless of schedule.
  • Their own “opponent adjusted EPA model” has Ohio State as far and away elite.
  • "Ohio State is just, man, top right of that graph ... they’ve been dominant regardless of who they're playing." (04:55, Taylor)

3. Analytics-Based Gap Between Programs (05:59–06:51)

• Indiana’s Proximity to OSU (Analytics):
  • Indiana sits at the top of the “second tier” behind OSU in Taylor’s model; for some metrics, it’s almost 50–50.
  • “I think Ohio State probably has the slight edge by the analytics, but it's—it is—it's gonna be a close game, I believe.” (06:09, Taylor)

4. How Indiana Has Changed Since Last Year (07:47–09:36)

• Mindset and Experience:
  • Indiana is more battle-tested (road wins at Iowa, Oregon, Penn State).
  • Improved communication and comfort in tough environments; last year, offensive struggles were largely tied to crowd noise and inexperience.
  • “A year’s difference has made a ... pretty big change for this team.” (07:47, Taylor)
  • Talent floor has improved significantly, especially on defensive front—transfers from power programs (Notre Dame, Maryland, Ole Miss, Colorado).

5. Focus on Indiana’s Quarterback & Offensive System (09:36–12:22)

• Fernando Mendoza (QB):
  • Unique blend of experience and talent—has more snaps than most QBs OSU has faced.
  • Highly cerebral: “I've never heard anybody talk or analyze the game like Fernando Mendoza in terms of like college quarterbacks ... his pre snap and his post snap reads have been really impressive.” (10:35, Taylor)
  • Benefits from Mike Shanahan’s (OC) sophisticated scheme—one of the nation's rising coordinators.
  • OSU’s defense will challenge his ability to recognize disguised looks.

6. Hoosiers Receivers: Strength and Versatility (14:23–18:26)

• Omar Cooper Jr.:
  • Has emerged as a versatile, dynamic weapon (despite starting as a slot only due to injury to Michigan transfer Tyler Morris).
  • “He's a huge YAC guy ... that’s kind of, you know, Ohio State knows that, and so they're ... going to hit him at the point of attack and ensure he's on the ground, but it's easier said than done.” (15:20, Taylor)
  • NFL tools—a tough matchup for OSU.
• Other Threats:
  • Elijah Surratt and Charlie Becker (deep threat, breakout sophomore): “He was not on anybody's radar ... but yeah, he’s a deep threat and a lot of people compare him to Alec Pierce on the Colts now.” (16:51, Taylor)
  • TE Riley Nowakowski has developed into a significant YAC threat.

7. Indiana’s Running Game & O-Line Depth (18:26–20:59)

• Tendency for Zone-Heavy Scheme:

  • Generally effective but struggles vs. elite fronts and in short yardage, especially if Drew Evans (guard) is out.
  • Acknowledges OSU’s defense matches up well versus zone-run.
  • “I don't think that'll fly against a front like Ohio State ... that is like a major vulnerability for Indiana now.” (19:05, Taylor)

• Personnel Depth:

  • Questions arise on right tackle/right guard configurations (injuries, former OSU player Zemohovsky is utility backup).

8. Indiana Defensive Front – Depth and Disruption (21:35–24:52)

• Front Four Standouts:

  • Tyreek Tucker (JMU transfer), Jose Wheeler (Western Kentucky), and standout pass rusher Mario Landino: “He has the highest amongst defensive tackles in the FBS, I want to say.” (22:24, Taylor)
  • “They attack from the interior” and rotate up to four disruptive guys.

• Edge Pressure:

  • Mikhail Kamara and Stephen Daly lead position groups; Daly tied for the national lead in TFL since taking over.
  • “The rate that he’s been getting into the backfield is pretty insane.” (23:49, Taylor)

• Creative Blitz Packages:

  • Frequent LB involvement; attacks often originate in the front—not just schemed pressure but genuine talent.

9. Indiana Secondary – Anchored by D’Angelo Ponds (24:52–27:19)

• CB D’Angelo Ponds:
  • “He kind of anchors half of the field in terms of communication and reads ... he's been great, and so ... he works really well on run defense, too, so he kind of does it all.” (25:25, Taylor)
• Secondary Vulnerabilities:
  • CB2 (Jamari Sharp) sometimes yields big plays, especially under pressure.
  • Safeties (Amari Farrell, Lewis Moore) are playmakers but have been put in vulnerable positions before.
  • Scheme notes: IU usually sticks to Cover 3, rarely goes two-high.

10. Defensive Philosophy: Pressure vs. Coverage (29:37–31:08)

• IU’s Plan for OSU Offense:
  • Primary focus will be on generating QB pressure rather than masking everything with varied coverages.
  • “I do anticipate them ... trying to generate pressure first and foremost before necessarily adjusting cover schemes.” (30:27, Taylor)
  • Indiana’s defensive front could present the toughest look OSU’s O-line has seen all year.

11. Mindset: Championship and National Title Stakes (31:08–34:09)

• Indiana’s Approach:

  • Treating the championship as a “one-game season” with full focus before a long break until the playoff.
  • “This is the only litmus test for either of these teams ... you get to do that without, you know, a trap door beneath you in terms of like the College Football Playoff.” (32:40, Taylor)
  • Extra motivation to show growth after last year’s loss; opportunity for both to measure against "elite" competition in a rare No. 1 vs. No. 2 matchup.

• Ohio State's Perspective:

  • Biggest challenge of the season; rare that OSU has played a full four-quarter game this year.

Notable Quotes

• “Ohio State is just, man, top right of that graph ... they've been dominant regardless of who they're playing.” (04:55, Taylor Lehman)
• “A year’s difference has made a ... pretty big change for this team.” (07:47, Taylor Lehman)
• “I've never heard anybody talk or analyze the game like Fernando Mendoza ... his pre snap and his post snap reads have been really impressive.” (10:35, Taylor Lehman)
• “He's a huge YAC guy ... they're going to be, you know, looking to hit him at the point of attack and ensure he's on the ground, but it's easier said than done.” (15:20, Taylor Lehman, on Omar Cooper Jr.)
• "...this is the only litmus test for either of these teams and, and then you get to do that without, you know, a trap door beneath you in terms of ... the College Football Playoff.” (32:40, Taylor Lehman)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 01:35 – 03:21: Taylor’s career & unique approach with analytics
• 03:26 – 04:55: OSU’s schedule and perception
• 06:09 – 06:51: Where Indiana stands analytically vs. OSU
• 07:47 – 09:36: Indiana’s year-over-year growth; roster and mindset
• 10:35 – 12:22: QB Fernando Mendoza’s strengths
• 14:23 – 18:26: Indiana WR corps & offensive threats
• 18:26 – 20:59: IU’s running game, OL, and schematic challenges
• 21:35 – 24:52: Defensive front personnel and disruptive capability
• 24:52 – 27:19: Secondary breakdown; D’Angelo Ponds
• 29:37 – 31:08: Indiana’s defensive philosophy for the game
• 31:08 – 34:09: Mindset and stakes of No. 1 vs. No. 2 showdown

Final Thoughts & Calls to Action

• Taylor Lehman’s Preview: Will post a detailed game preview on Bite Sized Bison Thursday night.
• Crimson Cast Appearance: Taylor will also join IU’s "Crimson Cast" podcast.
• Bill’s Recommendation: “Go to Bite Sized Bison and read Taylor’s preview. Go listen to Crimson Cast if you want to learn more about the Hoosiers when Taylor’s on there before this game on Saturday.” (35:52, Bill)
• Both sides see this game as the pivotal test heading into the CFP, with mutual respect and plenty to prove.

This summary captures the expertise, camaraderie, and deep analysis that make The Bill and Doug Show a must-listen for Ohio State (and Big Ten) football fans looking to understand the full context of the 2025 Big Ten Championship Game.