The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State vs. Jim Knowles — Inside the Buckeyes' Showdown with Their Former Defensive Coordinator

Date: October 28, 2025
Hosts: Doug Lesmerises & Bill Landis
Podcast Network: Blue Wire

Episode Overview

This episode explores the compelling storylines and emotional undercurrents surrounding Ohio State's upcoming game against Penn State, now led by former Buckeye defensive coordinator Jim Knowles. Doug and Bill analyze the complex professional relationship between Knowles and head coach Ryan Day, the tactical and emotional significance of this matchup, and how Knowles’ philosophies continue to impact both programs. The episode dives into program dynamics, press conference insights, defensive scheme evolutions, and the very human element behind major coaching changes in modern college football.

Key Topics & Discussion Points

The Significance of the Knowles-OSU Clash

• [02:00] Ohio State faces Penn State, coached defensively by Jim Knowles, fresh off three years and a national championship with the Buckeyes.
• Host Tone: Fun, thoughtful, fan-oriented with a touch of playful rivalry.
• Emotion in the Air: Ohio State’s player media availability restricted to captains—a sign, per Doug and Bill, that the program wants to avoid unguarded comments about Knowles.

"We are Human": Ryan Day’s Relationship with Jim Knowles

• [07:02] Ryan Day on coaching break-ups:

  "When, like any relationship, when it breaks off, you know, sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad, but there really hasn’t been much communication. He did a great job when he was here, you know, helped us win a national championship and kind of left it at that." — Ryan Day ([07:02])

• On Knowles joining a Big Ten rival:

  "You try not to take those things personal. But we are human." — Ryan Day ([07:35])

• Doug and Bill dissect these comments, observing real emotion from Day—calling the split “abrupt” and describing the current relationship as “icy.”

• Bill:

  “That is probably about as much emotion as Ryan Day is going to show in a press conference setting like that.” ([09:13])

Is This a "Revenge Game"? Parsing the College Football Coaching Cycle

• [10:08] The hosts debate the notion of “revenge” games, drawing parallels to NFL coaching changes and real-life career movement.
• Doug cautions against lazy media narratives, but both agree: this game has an extra edge because of the Day-Knowles backstory.

How the Split Became “Icy”: Anatomy of a Coaching Departure

• [18:02] Doug outlines his view of the three-year Day-Knowles partnership:

  • Day hires Knowles to overhaul a struggling defense (after a bidding war with Penn State).
  • Knowles is dubbed the “head coach of the defense,” but some of his schemes (like the “Jack” position) clash with long-standing OSU coaching preferences, especially DL coach Larry Johnson’s four-man front.
  • After a disappointing loss to Oregon, Day and staff simplify the defense, reducing Knowles’ schematic freedom.
  • Knowles delivers a national title, but when Penn State offers a big raise, OSU hesitates to match. Knowles leaves, with both sides feeling misunderstood.

  Doug:

  “Calling him the head coach of the defense and then not letting him be 100% of what he was probably rubbed Jim Knowles the wrong way even if Ryan Day was right to do all of it.” ([22:29])

• Bill summarizes:

  “Everybody’s right and everybody’s wrong... never felt like he was totally empowered to do what he wanted to do.” ([21:52])

The Knowles "System": Great for Underdogs, Tricky for Elite Talent

• [25:12] Bill and Doug compare Knowles’ innovative, “equalizer” defensive schemes (honed at Duke and Oklahoma State) to the spread offense’s rise from underdog tactic to champion’s staple.

• Doug:

  “To think at Ohio State or Penn State or anywhere where you can get the best defensive players…that can work, I think makes sense... But then I don’t think the transition to the top level of talent has been as seamless as it was for the spread offense.” ([27:20])

• They discuss how Knowles’ complex, safety-driven defense—designed to outsmart superior talent with underdog rosters—can frustrate elite defensive units used to simpler, more aggressive approaches.

  • Cited stats and criticism: OSU players and interim PSU coaches describe the Knowles defense as confusing or “like going to math class.”

    “I can grasp that, I can grasp that. Now all of a sudden you have to study this, like, education, like going to math class.” — Terry Smith, PSU interim coach ([29:36])

Scheme vs. Fit: Knowles’ Evolution at Penn State

• [31:00] Knowles moved to Penn State, but his system hasn’t clicked as quickly—Penn State needed instant results in a “championship window.”

• Bill says,

  “Jim Knowles was the right guy for the right time at Ohio State. Not at Penn State.” ([31:53])

• The friction spot: Knowles’ ideal defense needs time and total buy-in; both OSU and PSU required quick returns and didn’t grant total autonomy.

Defensive Identity & Playcalling: A Tale of Tweaks and Credit

• [32:00–36:00] Day credits his defensive staff (not just Knowles) for OSU’s resurgence, subtly downplaying Knowles’ sole influence.

  • Day:

    “The common denominator is…the rest of our defensive staff and the players.” ([34:08])

  • Bill notes OSU's current defensive coordinator Matt Patricia has successfully diversified the front and is more open to playing younger personnel—a flexibility Knowles lacked.

Motivations & Game Implications

• [41:44] Doug predicts added motivation on both sides, expecting both players and staff to acknowledge, after the game, the emotional stakes:

  “I just think it means something to these guys, to these Buckeyes.” ([41:44])

• Bill highlights the different relationship dynamic between Knowles and OSU players:

  “While Jim Knowles’ player relationships were not poor or antagonistic… I do think there’s a different connection with Matt Patricia that might bring out something from the players if asked about it after the game.” ([42:15])

Scheme Comparison & Numbers

• [38:10] OSU’s new defense plays fundamentally sound, bend-but-don’t-break football, ranking #1 nationally in opponent third-down conversions (21.4%). Knowles’ PSU defense, while solid in limiting big plays, struggles on third down and is still “caught in between” identities.

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• Ryan Day on Knowles departure:

  “When, like any relationship, when it breaks off, you know, sometimes it’s good, sometimes it’s bad... but it was abrupt. We certainly respect the work that he did when he was here.” ([07:02])

• Ryan Day on working in the Big Ten:

  “You try not to take those things personally. But we are human.” ([07:35])

• Doug on media and rivalry:

  “I hate when we do that as the media... where the littlest piece of sand... turns into headlines about player guarantees win.” ([08:06])

• On the “head coach of the defense” paradox:

  “Calling him the head coach of the defense and then not letting him be 100% of what he was probably rubbed Jim Knowles the wrong way.” — Doug ([22:29])

• Jim Knowles’ system as ‘math class’:

  “It’s like math. Defense is like going to math class. That’s exactly what defensive players want to do. ‘Hey, you guys wanna run around and violently tackle people with the balls?’ Like, ‘No, man, I wanna do algebra.’” — Doug, quoting and riffing on Terry Smith ([29:36])

• Bill on fit at Penn State:

  “Jim Knowles was the right guy for the right time at Ohio State. Not at Penn State.” ([31:53])

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:07] Episode intro, recap of upcoming playoff show, overview of situation with Knowles.
• [07:02] Ryan Day press conference discussion, key quotes about the breakup with Knowles.
• [10:08] Are “revenge games” real? Why this game is different.
• [18:02] Doug’s chronology of the Day–Knowles OSU relationship and departure.
• [25:12] Discussion of Knowles’ defensive schemes in context of CFB trends.
• [27:20] Parallels to the spread offense, strategic transitions, and their limits.
• [29:36] “Math class” defense: Player and coach critiques of Knowles’ system.
• [31:00] Did Penn State make a strategic mistake hiring Knowles?
• [32:00] Credit for OSU’s defensive success, Matt Patricia’s tweaks, and the value of the current defensive staff.
• [37:08] How much will Knowles’ insider knowledge affect Saturday’s game?
• [41:44] Player perspectives and likely post-game emotions and comments.
• [43:35] Debate on defensive fronts, Knowles’ resistance to playing young guys, and current OSU staff flexibility.
• [44:38] Should fans feel free to boo Knowles? Hosts give permission.

Conclusion & Takeaways

• The reunion with Jim Knowles at Ohio Stadium is fraught with professional respect, complicated feelings, and tactical intrigue. While neither side is “at fault,” the hosts argue, there was never a perfect alignment between Knowles’ preferred style and Ohio State’s institutional DNA.
• Saturday’s matchup is more than Xs and Os—it’s about fit, adaptation, pride, and a little unresolved tension.
• The episode closes with reminders of upcoming podcast content and the promise of more deep-dive coverage after the game.

For deep Buckeye fans and casual observers alike, this episode delivers context, candor, and CFB nerdery, making the human drama behind the Buckeyes-Nittany Lions matchup all the more compelling.