Ohio State vs. Penn State Picks and Preview: Will the Buckeyes' defense light up PSU's new QB?

Summary

The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State vs. Penn State Picks & Preview
Podcast: The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk (Blue Wire)
Episode Date: October 30, 2025

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Episode Theme & Purpose

This episode is a detailed preview and pick show for the upcoming Ohio State vs. Penn State football game. Hosts Doug Lesmerises and Bill Landis, veteran Ohio State beat writers, analyze the matchup from both sides of the ball, focusing on Ohio State’s highly ranked defense against Penn State’s new starting quarterback, coaching upheaval at Penn State, key positional matchups, and what Buckeye fans should be watching for on Saturday. The tone is analytical but lighthearted, mixing deep football insight with friendly banter and fan-focused energy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The State of Penn State’s Program (03:11–04:41)

• Penn State is in transition after the firing of head coach James Franklin.
• Interim coach Terry Smith is signaling changes on both offense and defense; he has publicly called for more downfield passing and simplicity on defense.
• “It has become very apparent… interim coach Terry Smith does not like anything that Penn State has been doing all year on either side of the ball.” — Doug, 03:11
• Smith is seen as a “truth-teller” and is expected to back up his words with tangible changes.
• The team is “physically refreshed” coming off a bye.

2. Penn State Offense vs. Ohio State Defense (07:03–37:53)

Should OSU Blitz Ethan Grunkmeyer?

• Penn State starts second-year QB Ethan Grunkmeyer after the chaos of the Franklin firing.
• “If you do (blitz Grunkmeyer), he might throw you the ball a time or two… There could be some deficiencies in that you want to attack.” — Bill, 08:48
• OSU dialed up more blitzes than usual recently, especially against inferior QBs.
• Grunkmeyer is an Ohio native, and the pressure may be an emotional storyline.

Penn State Passing Game Woes

• Receivers have underperformed; Smith may play more young WRs (Tyseer Denmark noted as possible new face).
• “His average depth of target this year was 8.2… That is not good for an average depth of target.” — Doug on previous QB Drew Aller, 18:25
• Terry Smith wants a less horizontal, more vertical passing game, but explosive plays have been rare.
• Penn State is 128th nationally in plays of 20+ yards; Grunkmeyer is 0-for-4 on such attempts so far.

Can They Run?

• Catron Allen had 28 carries for 140+ yards and 2 TDs last game; Nick Singleton has struggled.
• Offensive line is finally healthy, which could make Penn State tougher in the trenches.
• “They are as healthy as they’ve been since the Oregon game… all five are real guys. And it would mean something, like, I sort of expect Ohio State… to do that, but make sure you give them credit if they do.” — Doug, 25:45

Will Penn State Try Wrinkles?

• OC Andy Kotelnicki loves gadget plays but may lack the personnel to execute (e.g., Jackson Smolik, former wildcat/running QB, is now injured).

Bottom Line — Can PSU Threaten OSU?

• Hosts agree: PSU may try deep shots, but the odds of success are slim against OSU’s elite secondary.
• “There is a real chance here that for this Penn State offense, nothing’s going to work. And so it’s just, how do you decide that you’re going to go down?” — Doug, 22:29

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3. Ohio State Defense Overview (24:23–35:37)

• This game is a “matchup game” (Ryan Day’s term) between OSU’s defensive front and PSU’s offensive line.
• Edric Houston emerging as a difference-maker at DE; depth across the front is praised.
• “If the Ohio State defensive line is building a wall and there’s nowhere for the Penn State running backs to go… that really matters.” — Doug, 25:51
• OSU’s tackling and safety play (Sonny Styles, Caleb Downs) make big plays unlikely for PSU.

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4. Penn State’s Resilience and Limitation (35:37–37:53)

• PSU played with energy and “splash” even amid chaos at Iowa, almost pulling off a win.
• “They had some splash… but the offense struggled because of the situation that it’s in.” — Bill, 37:08
• Neither host expects a breakthrough for Penn State’s offense.

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5. Ohio State Offense vs. Penn State Defense (38:19–45:39)

The Changing PSU Defense

• Defense is statistically out of whack compared to previous years — less efficient, not generating “havoc”, red zone and third-down struggles.
• “It just feels like they’re paralyzed by overthinking in the Jim Knowles defense.” — Doug, 41:54
• Star LB Tony Rojas is out for the year, exposing depth issues.
• DC Knowles tends not to play younger guys, possibly exacerbating these problems.

How Should Ohio State Attack?

• Julian Sayin (OSU QB) rated best in Power 4 vs. blitz; PSU might try to make him uncomfortable but seems unlikely to succeed.
• Talent remains on PSU’s defense, but hosts expect “explosiveness” potential for OSU with Smith and Tate at WR. “There could be a version of this game where maybe Ohio State is less efficient than it has been, but more explosive… and I don’t know that that would necessarily upset Ryan Day.” — Bill, 45:39
• Red zone and third-down are weaknesses for PSU — should favor OSU.

Passing Evolution

• Sayin’s mobility and composure getting praise; OSU shifting toward pass-first identity.
• “The pass game is what gets Ohio State there… I do think we’ll start to see them lean on it more, expand it.” — Bill, 48:23

The OSU Run Game

• O-line and RBs (Bo Jackson, Isaiah West) under scrutiny for lack of explosiveness.
• Watch for more outside zone/stretches; how Penn State defends boxes after getting spread by OSU’s RPOs.
• “What plays they choose to hang their hat on will be interesting… It’s crazy how non-explosive they’ve been running the ball.” — Bill, 48:44 & 49:03

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6. Game Picks and Outlook (54:09–55:50)

Game Lines

• Ohio State favored by 20.5; over/under 44.5.

Score Predictions

• Bill: Ohio State 31, Penn State 7
  “I think Ohio State will more or less kind of play the game we’ve seen… play slow, not a lot of plays. Maybe there’s one or two splashes. But I just don’t think Penn State’s going to do a whole lot offensively either.” — 54:30
• Doug: Ohio State 31, Penn State 13
  “My guess is it’s actually more competitive than that… their version of the best game is probably nowhere near Ohio State’s… Three scoring opportunities would probably be great for Penn State.” — 55:50

Contextual Comments

• Both highlight this as not a typical “scared of the underdog” game — PSU has talent but is deeply disjointed.
• “They are as good of an 0-4 team in the Big Ten as you’ll ever see.” — Doug, 53:20

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the chaos in Penn State’s program:
  “It has become very apparent that it feels like interim coach Terry Smith does not like anything that Penn State has been doing all year on either side of the ball.” — Doug (03:11)

• On blitzing Grunkmeyer:
  “If you do, he might throw you the ball a time or two… Second start on the road, emotional for him…” — Bill (08:48)

• On PSU’s offensive identity:
  “They have lived in this phone booth, Bill, where they have no threat down the field.” — Doug (18:25)

• On Ohio State’s defensive front:
  “If the Ohio State defensive line is building a wall and there’s nowhere for the Penn State running backs to go… that really matters.” — Doug (25:51)

• On OSU’s offensive philosophy:
  “The pass game is what gets Ohio State there… I think we’ll start to see them lean on it more, expand it.” — Bill (48:23)

• On Penn State’s unique situation:
  “They are as good of an 0-4 team in the Big Ten as you’ll ever see.” — Doug (53:20)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Coaching and Penn State’s mood shift: 03:11–04:41
• Penn State Offense vs. Ohio State Defense (blitz discussion): 07:03–13:17
• On Penn State’s lack of explosiveness: 18:25–21:03
• Offensive line/Trenches breakdown: 24:23–28:13
• Expectations for Penn State’s energy: 35:37–37:53
• Ohio State Offense vs. Penn State Defense: 38:19–45:39
• Game picks and closing analysis: 54:09–55:50

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Summary Table

| Segment | Main Points | Timestamp | |----------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------| | Penn State turmoil & resets | Coaching change, interim coach critical of both sides of the ball, possible schematic & personnel changes | 03:11–04:41 | | Should OSU blitz PSU’s QB? | Grunkmeyer in only 2nd start, likely to be blitzed more than usual; potential for turnovers if OSU brings pressure early | 07:03–13:39 | | PSU passing game issues | No explosive plays, possible shift to more deep shots despite low odds of success, WR changes possible | 16:03–22:29 | | PSU run game & OL health | Catron Allen expected to carry load, OL healthiest since early in year, but have underperformed expectations | 24:23–28:13 | | OSU defense vs. PSU offense | OSU defense expected to dominate, lack of explosive potential for PSU, possible benefit if Allen can run, but little hope for sustained offense | 34:03–35:37 | | PSU’s energy and attitude | Played hard against Iowa despite chaos, still motivated for marquee game vs Ohio State | 35:37–37:53 | | PSU defense statistical drop-off | Defense less efficient and less disruptive than previous years, missing star LB, confusion in structure | 38:19–42:11 | | How OSU should attack | Expect pass-first approach, Julian Sayin praised, confusion/inefficiency in PSU’s defense may lead to OSU “explosive” plays | 44:11–48:23 | | OSU run game questions | Still searching for identity and explosiveness, will be interesting to see which run concepts are prioritized and which backs (Jackson, West) get most touches | 48:44–49:03 | | Game predictions | Both predict comfortable but not overwhelming OSU win (31-7, 31-13); Penn State could hit a couple big plays or special teams scores but can’t keep up over 4 quarters | 54:09–55:50 |

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Final Takeaways

• Ohio State’s defense is positioned to dominate against Penn State’s shaky offense led by a new quarterback and challenged at receiver.
• Penn State’s best hope is to “try something different”—take deep shots, ride Catron Allen, and make the most of a healthy OL—but the likelihood of success is low.
• Ohio State’s offense is settling into a pass-first, efficient identity; the run game remains unproven but should see more opportunities if the passing game stresses PSU.
• Penn State has the raw talent to make things interesting for a half but is unlikely to threaten in the long run.
• Both hosts expect Ohio State to cover the spread but advise fans not to overlook the talent and pride of a wounded but motivated Penn State team.

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Notable Moment (lighthearted):
A long-running joke about how to pronounce Penn State’s QB’s name—“Grunkmeyer” or “Grunkamire”—leads to playful riffing and suggestions that Fox bring Rob Gronkowski (“Gronk”) to the game for a “Gronk meets Grunk” segment. (07:07–08:23)

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For more analysis and postgame coverage, subscribe to The Bill and Doug Show and check out their bonus content at billanddougosu.substack.com.

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Transcript

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[Bill Landis]

What about toys? Do they have brands kids have been wanting all year?

[Doug LeMaurice]

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[Doug LeMaurice]

Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show. Doug Lamoris and Bill Landis making your Ohio State Penn State pick on this show. Landis like a big game, big game breakdown a little bit Buckeyes and Nittany Lions. Ryan Day keeps calling this a matchup game, Bill and it is a reminder that there are good players on Penn State even though their season has exploded.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, it is a good reminder. Like even watching a little bit more of it in preparation for the show. Like you you see the talent on the field with Penn State. There are many reasons why it's gone off off track for them, but it is worth keeping in mind there are a lot of pretty high level football players on this team. Oh yeah, it's about to play Ohio.

[Doug LeMaurice]

State favored by 20 and a half. I think the most difficult thing in breaking down this game is that Penn State is coming off a buy as is Ohio State. Penn State's had time to sort of reset itself because they played their first game since James Franklin was fired against Iowa two weeks ago. That was the first game with interim coach Terry Smith and they played a very competitive game at Iowa. Actually they probably should have won. I also was going through was one of those things this morning where I did one of those like my wife and I both work for home and I just did one of those like, and she was like, what's wrong? And I was like, I forgot Penn State, Iowa was on Peacock. So now I have to re watch it on Peacock.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. And also I don't know what was up with that broadcast because even like the people who were nice enough to put the highlights from it on YouTube, it's kind of glitchy. So I don't know if it was just like a bad, every, every YouTube recording I looked at was bad. So Peacock sucks. We've said that before.

[Doug LeMaurice]

But the thing is, is I, it has become very apparent that it feels like interim coach Terry Smith does not like anything that Penn State has been doing all year on either side of the ball. He's been complaining about their lack of downfield passing game and wanting Andy Kotelniki to call more of that. He's been complaining about the complexity of the Jib Knowles defense. So I think it is very confusing. Landis, because it's possible, I think that on both sides of the ball, Penn State, with this week off with the new guy in charge comes out and looks nothing like they've looked in the James Franklin era.

[Bill Landis]

I, I think it's highly likely we even saw some of it in the Iowa game, which I think we'll probably get into on both sides of the ball. They were just sort of instantly very different. I've been paying attention to some of what Terry Smith has said and, and there's been multiple references to him at a time being referred to by James Franklin as the ultimate truth teller. And you watch his press conferences. He's like, this guy's saying a lot. And, but I also don't think it's like he's not out there saying we're going to do this, this and this to like, set up Ohio State for the Okie Doke. Like, I think that's what Penn State's going to try to do is what Terry is what Terry Smith has said. But if they do, yeah, it will be pretty different. I, I, I would imagine the differences show up more on with Penn State's offense than they do Penn State's defense, but they'll be, there'll be tweaks on both sides of the ball for sure.

[Doug LeMaurice]

Yeah. Like subscribe, tell a friend about the Bill and Doug Show. Happy Halloween to everybody. If you are listening on a podcast and don't realize it or are watching on the YouTube channel and don't realize that we are wearing our Halloween costumes, Bill with his traditional blonde mullet, that when we sat down to record, I Was wearing normal clothes and Bill was wearing his blonde mullet. And you said something like, oh, my God, I can't believe this. Like, I forgot.

[Bill Landis]

I nearly forgot. And then I saw my. I just smelled this in my office all the time. It's also a little shovel because my kid likes to wear it. So I should have combed it before. But, yeah, this is my go to Halloween costume just put on.

[Doug LeMaurice]

It's the greatest Halloween costume ever. And I'm wearing a king outfit. I just. Was just lying around. I don't even know where I got it.

[Bill Landis]

That's weird.

[Doug LeMaurice]

Sitting around the house. Like, what a great. What a great thing. Because I. What I was wearing originally was my sweet, sweet Roback quarter zip. And I was like, oh, man, this robot quarter zip is feeling so good. But this is actually from the Roback royalty line. So if you want to know, they don't have a royalty line. They don't sell, but they do sell. Cool quarter zips and hoodies. I'll wear it on another show because it just. It hangs so well. It feels so good. And. And I do think one of the things. In the winter, it's warm and comfy, but it's not too heavy. It's a really good mix of what you're looking for. Maybe you're going to be outside, but then you're going to go indoors and not want to be sweating to death. So roback.com. perfect time to check it out. R H O b a c k dot com. Bad 20 is your code. If you put in the code bad 20 with your first order, you'll get 20% off. And then you too can look as comfortable and classy as I did before. I was like, oh, wait, it's Halloween time.

[Bill Landis]

I just thought you were dressed as suburban dad, but this is better.

[Doug LeMaurice]

That would be good because, like, that would be a costume for me because normally I'm cool getting it done. I'm gonna be beeping. Hey, man, these nerd. These lame suburban dads. What if I dress like one of them? I wonder what that's like. I can't relate to it at all. So thank you for noticing that.

[Bill Landis]

Sure.

[Doug LeMaurice]

Do you want to start out? How about Penn State offense vs. Ohio State defense first? You okay with that?

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, let's do it.

[Doug LeMaurice]

Should Ohio State blitz the heck out of Ethan Groffmeyer also say, having watched the Peacock broadcast, having talked to our good friend Audrey Snyder, I swear, the Peacock broadcast last two weeks ago, Penn State, Iowa, went back and forth between Grunkmeyer and Grunkamire every other time they said his name.

[Bill Landis]

Yes. And I've heard, like, different people on the Penn State beat pronounce it differently as well. So we're gonna. We're going with Grunky. Grunk Meyer, though, right? We're not adding the extra syllable.

[Doug LeMaurice]

Do you want to go with E Grunk? Are they gonna blitz the heck out of E Grunk?

[Bill Landis]

We just call him Gronk.

[Doug LeMaurice]

We can call him Gronk.

[Bill Landis]

Gronk's gonna be at the game, by the way.

[Doug LeMaurice]

Gronk. Why is Gronk gonna be at the game with.

[Bill Landis]

He's a Fox employee. You know.

[Doug LeMaurice]

What does he do? Does he. What does he do, though?

[Bill Landis]

They put him on big hands there and grunts, I think. I don't know.

[Doug LeMaurice]

They're definitely gonna do a Gronk Grunk thing. If Gronk's gonna be there, that may.

[Bill Landis]

Be the only reason he's there. Now that I'm thinking about it, these names sound similar.

[Doug LeMaurice]

Let's do. Let's do a good three minutes on this. Me Gronk. You Gronk. Oh, you throw ball. Gronk throw ball to Gronk. Oh, my God. That actually would be a pretty good segment. And it's Halloween and they dress up as a caveman.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Doug LeMaurice]

My God. Just programming college football pregame shows. Me Gronk. Grunk throw ball to Gronk. Oh, Portnoy. What you think of game? Me Gronk think win. Oh, my God. That would probably be better than what the. The big news content is half the time.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Doug LeMaurice]

Should they blitz him like crazy?

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, because I think you, if you do, he might throw you the ball a time or two. Right. Either obviously you welcome the opportunity for Saxon and strip sacks, but second, start on the road, emotional for him because of being an Ohio native. Tweaks to the offense that maybe they'll want to try but not have entirely nailed down. There could be some deficiencies in that you want to attack. So I. I would probably try to heat them up, but that. That would go strongly against what Ohio State has done to this point. They're just not a high pressure team.

[Doug LeMaurice]

Blitz percentage against Wisconsin was 57 though, according to PFF.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, but PFF is weird, I think, because I think we talked about this before. I think sometimes, and it's not the. Necessarily the wrong thing to do, but I think they count those like simulated pressures or those creepers where it's still just a four man rush as blitzes. Actually sending extra bodies is not something Ohio State does A whole lot.

[Doug LeMaurice]

So that was by their percentage. That was by far the most Ohio State had blitz this year by their percentage. Iowa Blitz, Ethan Gruckmire 31% of the time. But I thought you could see it. And again, this is a, this is a second year player being thrown into a difficult circumstance. But on the other hand, and so we sort of talked about it with even like when Luke Montgomery was put in the starting lineup on the offensive line last year. I just think there's such a difference between are you now forced to start somebody who you never in your wildest dreams ever plan to start, or are you now forced to start somebody that, that you always plan to start, but maybe you're just starting him a little early, like Ethan Gronkmeyer. If, if all this had gone according to plan for Penn State and Penn State was a top five team and they were undefeated and on track to be an absolute national title contender, Drew Aller would still be the starter. Ethan Groquemeyer would be the backup, a job he won in August. And next year Penn State would be anticipating James Franklin being the head coach with Ethan Gruckmire being the starting quarterback. Right.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. I think everyone in State college was expecting Gronkmeyer to be a starter next year.

[Doug LeMaurice]

Okay, so this is accelerated, but I don't think it is necessarily like, oh man, you'd like, there's no way this guy can do anything. And that was his first start against Iowa two weeks ago. He's had the week off to get ready. Yes. He's going to be in his hometown. He's Nolan Tangy high school graduation, trying to do this against Ohio State. But I also think he has a chance to maybe be substantially better because you saw some stuff last week. I thought he got happy feet in the pocket at times. I thought like when they, when pen. When Iowa did blitz him, he, he didn't really know what to do. You know, they had a key third down at one point, like late in the first half where he just sort of bailed out of the pocket and threw the ball out of bounds on third and two and it's like, okay, like that's, that's a tough spot. Like that's not going to get you anywhere. He had a, they tried a couple deep shots and he, he threw like a weird pick on one of them that he just was 10 yards past the receiver and the, an Iowa DB made a great diving catch on a play. And you could, you could see all the things that would be going through your head as A first time starter in absolute chaos. Your program has imploded and they're like hey second year guy, can you start and save us? But I like, I think it's possible he looks totally different against Ohio State.

[Bill Landis]

It's possible, but I don't know that I bet on it. It's just, it's just such a big ask.

[Doug LeMaurice]

It is a big ask.

[Bill Landis]

And like Drew Aller never looked super comfortable playing at so high State even when he had some experience. Right. Maybe the fact that this game doesn't have much in the way of stakes anymore will allow Grunkmeyer to play better. But. And also like what is better? Like I, I don't know. Like better can certainly mean like more comfortable. But that does better mean in a position to actually threaten Ohio State all that much? I don't know either. The other thing that you know, the rapport with the pass catchers is something I wonder about too. Not the Penn State's pass catchers have been great this year. So it really does feel like based off what Terry Smith has said that like they don't want to put the game on him. Like they're and, and I, it felt like they didn't. They tried to do that against Iowa too. I think they understand the situation they're in and they don't want to make this kid feel like the six the successor failures is solely dependent on whether or not he plays well against Ohio State.

[Doug LeMaurice]

But heat him up early and see what happens.

[Bill Landis]

I think so. And I was just looking too by the way, Sports Info Solutions will tell you like how many times a team sent more than four rushers. Ohio State actually did do it a decent amount against Wisconsin it was almost half the time which is like pretty high for, for Ohio State. Well, there weren't a lot of drop backs. We're only 18 drop backs but seven of them were extra rushers.

[Doug LeMaurice]

And that's a situation where they're, they're sending that after a third string quarterback at Wisconsin who again is in like a similar spot. Like a guy that we don't really think he can hurt us if we do this. So I do think as opposed to for instance where that first drive against Minnesota they kind of just laid back and, and didn't do much and let Minnesota march down the field and then they shut down Minnesota for the rest of the game. I would say not anticipate that against Penn State. Come out, take some risks and if Gronk Meyer makes a throw or two then you have the ability to go back to that very efficient. You're not going to beat us with big plays. Penn State defense, Ohio State defense. But I would try to get after him early.

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[Doug LeMaurice]

Yep. Barbie, Tonys and Lego.

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[Doug LeMaurice]

They're pass catchers. They did not have anybody have more than 20 receiving yards against Iowa. And this has been one of the areas where Terry Smith has sort of been like, I don't know about our receivers. And he's been talking about playing some of the younger receivers. They didn't really do it against Iowa, but maybe they'll do it again against Ohio State. They have three transfer receivers they brought in in Trevor Payner from Syracuse, Devonte Ross from Troy and Kyrie Hudson from usc. Audrey Snyder from Penn State. Coverage Great coverage on the at the Nittany Dispatch said on our show that like Ross has been the best but nobody's been great. But at the same time, Terry Smith is telling Andy Kolnicki, the offensive coordinator, we have to throw the ball down the field more. So I also think it's possible that you'll see some new faces playing more snaps for Penn State at receiver. And even though they don't want to put it on the young quarterback, they'll try a couple more shots. Because I don't think Terry Smith likes the way they've gone about the passing game.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, he said they want to throw it less horizontally and more vertically. One of those youngers, I, I wondered if part of wanting to play the young receivers is because like that's who Gronkmeyer practiced with prior to being elevated to the starter. Right. Like Drew Aller was thrown with, with Hudson and Pena and Ross. But also like, you know, it's a, it's a never ending story with Penn State. They just, they don't have what they want at receiver. One of those young guys they might play is Tyson Denmark, who Ohio State recruited pretty hard and then kind of, I think like backed off of kind of late. I believe he was an Oregon commit and then he flipped to Penn State. He's from Philly. He's a player I was, I, I thought was pretty good. Like when Ohio State was recruiting him, like, yeah, that guy could play here. So I'll be interested to see if they get him involved more specifically. But I don't know, it just feels like they, and, and it's. We know what Andy Coltonicky, Andy Coldle, Nikki is like known for. Right? It's sort of like junking it up a little bit. So it feels like maybe they'll lean into that pass game and run game in an effort to try to set up some shots. Especially like play action shots. So teams have not hit big plays on Ohio State like all year. But it also feels like teams don't even really try sometimes because they just feel like it's a losing proposition. We'll see like maybe like Penn State with nothing to lose. I think we'll come out and try to hit a couple.

[Doug LeMaurice]

It is remarkable how Penn State has continued to play in a phone booth that Drew Aller in his three years as a starting quarterback at Penn State, it's just an indication of like their style of play. His average depth of target this year was 8.2. Last year was 9.1 and in 2023 was 8.0. That's like really low. That is, that is not good for an average depth of target. And the number of shots that they try 20 yards down the field of more like deep passing. The, the percentage of throws overall that you make that are downfield that much. Drew Aller was 74th in the nation out of 75 quarterbacks this year with how often he tried to throw down the field last year he was 62 of 74. His first year as a starter in 2023, he was 72 of 73. Like they've lived in this phone booth bill where they have no threat down the field. When they hired andy Kotelniki In 2024, James Franklin made a big deal about we have to be more explosive. And they were then like a little bit better at that last year. They are back to not being very good at it. They have Penn State as an offense has 21 plays in seven games of 20 yards or more. That's 128th in the nation. Last year they had 77, 20 plays, plays of 20 yards or more in 16 games. That was better. That was more like middle of the pack. So the bottom line is like my point here is this. They know they're not explosive. They tried to hire an offensive coordinator to make them a little more explosive. They were a little better at it this year and then this year. Last year, then this year when Drew Aller is in the third year, they reverted. They backtracked again to not being explosive at all. And now they're to a backup quarterback. Ethan Grunkmeyer is 0 for 4 on throws of 20 yards or more down the field. So here again, I'm making up. This is a very roundabout way of saying this. I don't think Terry Smith likes the fact that they don't throw the ball downfield at all. Do you agree with that? Yes, I think I would not be surprised if they try to throw the ball downfield more against Ohio State in this game. Do you maybe agree with that?

[Bill Landis]

I think they will, yeah.

[Doug LeMaurice]

And I would admire the, the try by Penn State. But I also think there's a very good chance that they are terrible at it. It's a quarterback making his second start. None of their receivers can get open. And if they try to throw the ball downfield, Ohio State secondary is going to feast. Do you also think that's possible?

[Bill Landis]

I do, yeah. I think, I think all those things are true.

[Doug LeMaurice]

Yeah. Okay. But I think they'll try it. I think they have to try. But Davis and Nick McNoson and Jermaine Matthews and Ryan Day said this week that Lorenzo Styles is healthy. We would I guess anticipate him being back in the slot. And then Jaylen McLean and Caleb Downs making plays and then also if they're trying to run any play action stuff or take a couple deep shots that require more time to open up. Now you have Kaden Curry and Arvell Reese and Kenyatta Jackson with more opportunity to get to the quarterback. I think it, I think maybe we could see Penn State hit one. But I also think it could be their absolute undoing, where you get a pick, you get a strip sack on Grunk Meyer trying to stand in the pocket and that Penn State has to try it, but there's very little chance that it's going to work against this Ohio State defense.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I, I don't, I, I don't think it'll work very well. Like you said, I, I, I admire it when, when you're in a position that Penn State's in. Well, what else can you do other than try to do some different things to push the envelope a little bit to see if you can't break through. But I don't know if this collection of quarterback, receiver and even like offensive line holding up. Yep. Is going to get them there. They, they really want to run the ball, keep it away from Ohio State, but then like run the ball to set up, play action shots, and that's probably the right course of action. I just, I just have a hard time seeing it being super effective.

[Doug LeMaurice]

Yeah, there's, there's just a real chance here that for this, for this Penn State offense, nothing's going to work. And so it's just, how do you decide that you're going to go down? Like, are you going to go down trying some of this stuff? And I think they have to try. Now, like, the other point of this is Ohio State, again, as we've talked about all year, is not particularly explosive offensively. Ohio State only has 25 plays of 20 yards or more this year. That's 115th in the country. As we said, Penn State has 21, they're 128th in the country. But the difference is the Ohio State offense is then incredibly efficient. They move the ball down the field. They do your job. Penn State's offense is not that efficient. Like, it's okay, but it's not super efficient. So when you are incredibly unexplosive and then not super efficient, then you wind up in a spot where you're not a very dangerous offense. I do think it's worth talking about the Penn State offensive line because I do think, I thought they would be good coming into the year. I thought they had a chance to be among the best offensive lines in the country. I don't think you would say they've played to that level, but I also think they're going to be the health, the healthiest They've been since the Oregon game because their right tackle, Anthony Dunko was kind of banged up and didn't start against ucla, Northwestern, and then last week. What's your guy's name? Say it. So I say it. Right. Left guard Vango Vengoane was out last week at left guard. So they played TJ Shanahan, who's a backup. He started the last three games. Dunko's back and played against Iowa. It feels like Awana is back and I think they at least should have all our guys land us, which maybe will make a difference because I think when you looked at, you know, what they had back you, you thought they had a chance to be pretty darn good. And it just, for whatever reason, hasn't been, I don't think it's been terrible, but it hasn't been as good as anticipated, right?

[Bill Landis]

No, I, I thought they could have the best offensive line in the country coming into the year, as you mentioned, and they haven't done that. But I do think, especially with what's happened to Texas, this is the best offensive line Ohio State to see. We'll have seen so far. The other, the other one that's close will be close is probably Illinois. But no, there's, there's like real talent here. Again, like it's a, it's a story with Penn State's entire roster. There's real talent. They're just all like not playing well at the same time. But if for some reason were to hit and they did, I think it would be a pretty good test for Ohio State's defensive front and really like a, an excellent gauge of, of where exactly the defense is. Right. The numbers for Ohio State's defense are ridiculous, but if you look at some of the offenses that they played, there's just not a lot of high level offense there. They're like Washington and Illinois have the ability to be for sure. But otherwise it's like Ohio State's played a bunch of like super explosive, super efficient, high scoring offensive teams. Now that being said, they are still only giving up six points a game. That's insane no matter who you play. But, but yeah, this, this could be like a real chance to learn something, I think about Ohio State's front and maybe how it stands up to a pretty big athletic offensive line on a team that wants to establish the run.

[Doug LeMaurice]

Right.

[Bill Landis]

That, that is a. Still a bit of an unknown with this defense that I think we'll get some answers on this week.

[Doug LeMaurice]

And I do think, I think that this is a matchup Game between, to use Ryan Day's words, between the Ohio State defensive line and the Penn State offensive line. And if. And Edric Houston has been playing better, that's a big deal. Taiwan Malone has shown this year what he can do. Kaden McDonald has been and has just played some excellent defensive tackle this year. And then you think about what Kaden Curry has done, what Kenyatta Jackson can do at times, the ability to use the linebackers to get after the passer a little bit. But if. If the Ohio State defensive line is building a wall and there's nowhere for the Penn State running backs to go, or, or they are getting into the backfield on a regular basis and tripping guys up behind the line of scrimmage or just getting, like, you know, consistent interior pressure, that is, that really matters. And so I think for Ohio State fans to say, hey, well, you know, Penn State stinks. What are you going to do if Ohio State's defensive line is handling its business? Make note, because this Penn State offensive line, all, like, five. All five are. Are real guys. They are real guys. And it would mean something like, I sort of expect Ohio State defensive line to do that, but make sure you give them credit if they do.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I. I expect them to as well, but it is. Terry Smith on Wednesday night was watching his press conference, and maybe this is a thing that just happens every time a team comes off of a bye week, but he said they're sort of internal athletic testing numbers. Right? Like, how fast guys are running, how hard they're straining, things they can actually measure with, like, the vest with the chips and stuff that they wear was the best that it's been for Penn State since the second week of the season. So to your point about this offensive line being fresh, I think, like, generally, Penn State as a team might be a little bit refreshed physically doesn't guarantee anything, but I think what we're, like, getting at and sort of dancing around, like, there. There is a. A world where, like, Ohio State does get a pretty good shot from Penn State.

[Doug LeMaurice]

Right.

[Bill Landis]

But I think offensively it would have to start with its offensive line.

[Doug LeMaurice]

Yes.

[Bill Landis]

Like, if they're. If they're good, then, like, the rest of it can kind of fall into place. But if they're not an Ohio State's defensive front kind of owns a line of scrimmage. Like, I don't know what Penn State's going to do.

[Doug LeMaurice]

They have to take shots down the field. But Terry Smith was saying that's going to be predicated on, can they run the ball at all. And that's going to be determined by this offensive line and Catron Allen. They had the two headed running back. Catron Allen and Nick Singleton. They were both averaging 12 carries per game in the James Franklin era. And then as soon as James Franklin was gone against Iowa, Nick Singleton had six carries and Catron Allen had 28. So he had a career high in carries and yards. I think like over 140 yards. I think two touchdowns, it feels like. And a lot of people covering Penn State have been wondering why they weren't leaning on Katron Alley or Catron Allen earlier in the season. He's averaging six yards per carry. Nick Singleton's averag three. Audrey was on the show saying that Nick Singleton's kind of been in his own head. Ktron Allen's good. So that I, I would expect a healthy dose of Catron Allen who when he's on is one of the best running backs in the Big ten. And if they can do that at all. And now this is Sunny Styles time. This is Caleb Downs time. This is Arl Reese time. Running chase. They want us. They write. They want to run wide a little bit and try to hit some cutback lanes. And sometimes you could see it against Iowa. Sometimes they tried to run wide. It's like Iowa's tracking those guys down. It's like, well, if Iowa could do it, then Ohio State can certainly do it. I would look for that on early downs. And then the other part is just two tiny little things that are wrinkles. One is Jackson Smolik was their third string quarterback. He's the backup now. They like to use him as a runner in some packages. Oh, he's. Oh, he's out.

[Bill Landis]

He's out. He's not playing. Yeah.

[Doug LeMaurice]

Oh, oh, good then for Penn State because for the, for as. As much as I have at times, like called for Lincoln Keenholtz to be involved in some run game wrinkles and that kind of thing. Andy Coltal n as an offensive coordinator feels like sometimes he's nothing but wrinkles. And they were putting Jackson Smolik in the game immediately. As soon as they got in the red zone and taken out this first time starting quarterback who's trying to get in a rhythm. And I just, I was watching it and then it wasn't particularly effective and I was like, what are you doing? Like, this is too much of this. Okay, sorry. Did he get hurt in the Iowa game?

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I think he like broke his wrist or something.

[Doug LeMaurice]

No, I couldn't. But they have Peacock slowed me down. I couldn't get through the whole game.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, so they're down.

[Doug LeMaurice]

They okay.

[Bill Landis]

Their second quarterback, like, is a scholarship guy who also, I think like has not played, who I believe actually was injured and now is back and he's the backup. And they kind of said like they might still do the two quarterback stuff, but yeah, Smolik is not going to be the guy they do it with.

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[Bill Landis]

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[Doug LeMaurice]

But the other part of this is that I think Andy Coltonicki as an offensive coordinator who I have praised numerous times and I thought was a good hire and did a good job for Penn State last year, like all that Tyler Warren stuff and using him in a million different ways. Andy Coltonicki brought that out of him and he still. But now you sort of see he seems to be trying to do the same kind of stuff and he doesn't have a unique talent like Ty Warren to run it all and now it feels like wrinkles for wrinkles sake. And when you're just trying to maybe get in a rhythm with your run game and let K Tron Allen get, get something going or you know they're, they ran like a triple option at the goal line against Iowa where they put Jackson Smolik in and then he like tossed to Trevor Pena as a receiver and it's like I kind of like that play.

[Bill Landis]

I don't know. I don't know that I like the player. I don't know that like the players involved with it. But I like the idea behind play.

[Doug LeMaurice]

Yeah, but also maybe give the ball to K Tron Allen. I don't know. So actually if they don't have as many wrinkle options, maybe that's a good thing because I do think Penn State's chances, try to run the ball, have the offensive line play its best game of the year. K Tron Allen gets the ball 25 times, then you throw, you throw some shots off of that. That's their chance. But I also think the Ohio State defense is not really going to let much of that happen. This Ohio State defense, it's. When we do these breakdowns, we end up talking about the opponent more because I think our audience knows, Bill. What Ohio State is about. But sometimes in a circumstance like this, it's like, well, why am I not talking more about the Ohio State defenses? Because I, I think people know like, I don't think these Penn State receivers can get open against Jermaine Matthews and Davis and Lorenzo Styles and, and I don't expect that K Tron Allen is going to gash a defense that features Sonny Styles and Orville Reese and, and Peyton Pierce filling gaps and making tackles. And I, as good as this Penn State offensive line maybe could be at its peak. I don't think they're going to push around Kaden McDonald and Kaden Curry and Edric Houston all day. So now I just feel like I'm naming Ohio State defensive players to give them credit. But the Ohio State defense is excellent and I think they'll play well against Penn State.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I think they will too. I think the, the K. Tron Allen conversation is. It feels similar to the Jonah Coleman conversation when Ohio State played Washington and Ohio State did a nice job there, I think limiting General Coleman the one run where he got out but he didn't score and that was, that was kind of it. I just, yeah, I don't know that there's really much in the way of matchups that favor Penn State's offense against Ohio State's defense. And even hearing like Ryan Dan on Wednesday night. Right. Did I thought his answer about Edric Houston was like really good to hear. Right. It wasn't. He's talked a lot about, about Edric earlier in the year having to find consistency and just sort of like understanding what it is to do this every day and what you have to put into it to be. To be a really like high level player with a. Which they believe Edric can be. And I, I said, I thought the last two times he was on the field against Minnesota and Wisconsin, he's played well. Ryan Day said that he said he graded out as a champion against Wisconsin and that he likewise kind of views Houston as getting ready to turn that corner potentially, which would be a huge deal for, for that defensive line. So like, even, even if you wanted to look at defensive tackle and say, like, well, yeah, Katie McDonald's played well, but maybe they could use some more there, it's like, it even feels like they're getting that. So I don't know, like, and if they've tackled well, especially Sonny Styles, there's no one has cracked that defense yet. And might it happen at some point this season? Sure. But I don't know that it's going to be this Penn State offense reeling the way it is with a super inexperienced quarterback on the road.

[Doug LeMaurice]

Penn State has some pieces. There is very little connectivity, and they're playing a guy who's making a second career start at quarterback and they still don't have any receivers. So again, last time out, Ethan Gruckmeyer 15 of 28 for 93 yards picks against Iowa, and Penn State ran the ball 46 times for 173 yards. That's 3.8 yards per carry. K turn. Allen was good, 28 for 145, but nothing else worked. And so if Iowa is going to do that to Penn State, I mean, imagine what Ohio State's going to do. But it's like, I still. But also you and I are now talking about Iowa. Hey, like, they're going to give Oregon a game next week when Oregon comes to Kinnick, and that was in Kinnick two weeks ago. And that was a chaotic, distressed, imploded Penn State program that almost went in there and won. So Iowa actually, and Iowa almost beat Indiana. So I also do think as much as, like, there really wasn't anything other than other than Penn State getting smart about giving the ball to Catron Allen overall, that Penn State performance. As an Ohio State fan watching this, I just would, you know, if you're thinking like Penn State sinks, that actually is a pretty good performance, I think, by Penn State because Iowa actually is a pretty fundamental good football team and Penn State almost went in their house and beat them at their most chaotic, and now they've had a second to catch their breath. That's all right. I wouldn't, I wouldn't view that as like, oh, man, they can't even beat Iowa. It's like, actually I was pretty, pretty good at a lot of things.

[Bill Landis]

And I think maybe the biggest thing I took away from that, watching that Iowa game is I don't know that Penn State, Penn State did not play, like, it didn't want to be there. Right. I thought they actually had some pretty good energy, sort of stemming from Terry Smith on the sideline. They had some splash. Like they blocked that field goal at the end of the half and got a touchdown out of that. Right. Like, the offense struggled because of the situation that it's in. But like, I thought the defense was, was flying around a little bit for part of that game and then. But they, they let, like, Mark Kranowski get loose a little too much. I'm not saying it was a perfect game, but it's just in terms of energy and wondering if a team was going to have any of it after their coach got fired. I thought, I thought that was noticeable that they still, like, kind of showed up and played hard, which is like, not nothing when you're in the situation they're in, right?

[Doug LeMaurice]

Like, subscribe. If you're watching right now and you're not subscribed to the YouTube channel, subscribe. If you're listening to this and you're not subscribed on your podcast feed, subscribe. We, we want to. We want to. We want to be with you. We want to be with you every day. And Bill War's wig to ask you to subscribe. Let's go to the other side of the ball. Ohio State offense versus Penn State defense. What do you got?

[Bill Landis]

It is rather jarring. We've. I think you, you hit on some of these numbers earlier in the week just to see the, like, the, the statistical profile of Penn State's defense right now is just way out of whack from what it's been under its previous coordinators. And now with Jim Knowles running the show like Fei, right. The, the drive to drive efficiency. They're 29th this year, which is not, it's not bad. It's not terrible. But they were 4th last year, 7th year before that, 4th before that, 9th before that. They're like parentally top 10 havoc rate, 2022, 11th, 2023, 1st, 2024, 10th this year, 41st. They're not getting after teams really, like, behind the line of scrimmage. They're not generating a ton of turnovers. They do five interceptions, which is, which is not a bad number.

[Doug LeMaurice]

It's.

[Bill Landis]

It's just like, you see, you see the talent, right? Because a lot of these guys are familiar. A lot of these guys are guys that Ohio State played against last year and the year before that. Denied Dennis Sutton, very good. Zane Durant, very good. Zeki Wheatley, very good. AJ Harris having a little bit of a down year, but, like, super talented. Even like Amari Campbell, the linebacker they got from UNC, like, early this year. This guy looks like he's a pretty good player. So. But for some reason it's just like not all, it's not coming together for them to have the kind of dominant defense that Penn State has traditionally had. Now I say that and like the Oregon game and we think Oregon is good. Oregon had three points with like three minutes left in the third quarter. Right. So they, they were. And then Penn State let it get away and lost in overtime obviously. But there's a level of, of talent with this defense that can be really tough to play against if it's all hitting right. But they are just like everything else in the program is like way out of whack right now. I was looking at so on, on that broadcast it does the live stats for, for all the games. You can actually go back and sort of look through those if you search for them. And the four losses to Oregon, ucla, Northwestern and Iowa just looked at the big plays that the opponents had and, and, and stat broadcast defines big plays as passes of 15 yards or more and runs of 10 yards or more. In those four losses, Penn State's defense allowed 30 big plays, which is like a pretty high number especially considering some of the offenses they were playing against with Iowa, Northwestern mixed in there. So like they, if you look at their season long profile, giving up big plays, it's not bad. But lately it's kind of gotten away from them. So I really don't know what to expect because I want to be, I want to be respectful of the talent because you do see it. But the whole puzzle is just not fitting together very well. And again similar to the offense like Terry Smith is, is like kind of demanding that they, they go, Jim Knowles go into his, his laboratory and come out with something that works for this group that, because it hasn't worked to this point. So I, I don't know what he's gonna do. I could see him junking it up and throwing a lot of blitzes at Julian Saying, but Julian Saying remains the highest graded quarterback in the power four against the blitz. Like, I just don't know if that's the way you want to go about it. Penn State's run defense has not been good this year. There's, there's a decent amount of quarterback run in that, but even still like teams are running the ball okay against them. We know like that's on Ohio State strength. But like maybe this is a game where they can get a little something going on the ground. So it's a really hard study. I think like I, I think you can, you can look at the offense, especially now Penn State's offense and like, understand why it's a little out of sorts. I don't really know why the defense is based on having place. It's. It's quite odd.

[Doug LeMaurice]

It just feel like they're paralyzed. They're paralyzed by overthinking in the Gymnals defense. And if, if the, the demand during this off week was we want three calls, let these guys run and hit.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Doug LeMaurice]

Now they're missing, as Audrey has pointed out. Right. Tony Rojas, their best linebackers out for the year. And it feels like that's blown a hole in the middle of the defense, which is also one of those of everybody has injuries. If you're a program that's trying to win the national championship, should one linebacker injury devastate your defense to this degree. Right. It maybe says something about like, man, is there. Is there a depth of talent missing there? But as you've said, Jim Knowles is often reluctant to play young players. And so maybe like the guys behind are not ready because he didn't help get them ready. But what, what if they. So Ryan Day said this week they're going to be ready for Jim Knowles curveballs. What if Jim Knowles just throws a bunch of 81 mile per hour fastballs right down the middle of the plate and tries to lean on the talent? Would Penn State have a shot there? Or if they don't try to confuse Julian saying, if they don't try to give different looks and is Julian saying, gonna pick him apart and Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate are going to destroy this Penn State secondary or would they, man on man, have a chance to hang maybe a little bit?

[Bill Landis]

Maybe a little bit. Yeah. I mean, clearly nobody has the corners to hang with Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate all game. But like, if A.J. harris, if he's right, it's pretty good. As I mentioned, Elliot Washington's a good young player like Zion Tracy's or Nickel. He's the one that had the pick six against Ohio State last year. Right. So, like they have good secondary players and, and there's good defensive linemen and we know that Ohio State is still trying to figure some stuff out on its offensive line, especially on the right side. So yeah, there, there are matchups that, that I think could, I don't think could provide consistent problems for Ohio State. But, but some issues here or there, like really make Ohio State earn it to get down the field. That's the other thing about this defense. It's bad in the red zone. They give up A lot of touchdowns once teams get in the red zone and they're bad on third down. So, like, the situation should still favor Ohio State.

[Doug LeMaurice]

Okay.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. Yeah, I could. Could it happen? Sure. And we've not really seen. You know, I actually think Illinois threw a decent amount defensively at Ohio State. That was also a weird game with Ohio State on a lot of short fields. We've not seen Julian saying, really look, like, uncomfortable or confused in any game. Like, do you try to do that just to see, like, can you really process it as a young quarterback? Maybe. I think probably the better course of action would just be, like you said, to kind of like, play it straight up, maybe pressure a little more. Penn State doesn't pressure a whole lot. Play man and, like, see if you can't get a tip pass that goes your way kind of thing. And the other thing that the dependency will have to contend with, too, is like the. The bunch of RPOs that Ohio State threw against Wisconsin. And I think the way you do contend with that is by playing more, man. So if Penn State wants to do that and take away some of those, like, free access throws, there's the trade off there. But then you worry about Carnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith running Bayou. So I think. I think there's a version of this game where maybe Ohio State is less efficient than it has been, but more explosive. And I don't know that that would necessarily upset Ryan Day if that were the case or really any Ohio State fans. Right. I think a lot of people are kind of itching to see some big plays, both in the run game and the pass game. And I think, like, on the right Day, as you sort of alluded to, Penn State defense can make efficiency difficult, but they've given up a bunch of big plays lately.

[Doug LeMaurice]

So.

[Bill Landis]

So maybe that's. That's the script for Ohio State. That's that. And that would be very different from what we've seen from Ohio State so far.

[Doug LeMaurice]

The Wisconsin game, obviously, as you have pointed out, was, you know what? Wisconsin up front's actually pretty good. They're pretty good run defense, and their vulnerability was on the back end. And so Julian saying threw for almost 400 yards and four touchdowns. You take advantage of situations, but also, do you. Do you see this passing game for Ohio State elevating? Do you see Julian saying in a way that. Yeah. And I don't even know if it's about Penn State very much that that is. Is the. The Penn State. Excuse me, the Ohio State passing attack in particular, getting to the point where it is just going to be very difficult for anybody to stop this, especially when you start to see how Julian San is maneuvering in the pocket, finding extra time to throw. Even if you get a little pressure, he's not going to give up on a play. He's not going to make a panicked move. Where do you think they are?

[Bill Landis]

I think they're in a great spot and I do think they will elevate. Yeah. And I think we'll start to see them throw the ball more like I would be, I guess, unless they just really establish the run well in this game and are running it, you know, for, for five yards a clip against Penn State. I would be surprised if this is a game that feels like a run first game for Ohio State. I maybe that's just me being hopeful that we're sort of past that based off what we saw against Wisconsin. Because even against Wisconsin, you saw over time Ohio State, by running all those RPOs, kind of threw, threw Wisconsin out of loading the box against the run. And then Ohio State round the ball a little better in the second half of that game. And that's the idea. I think that's what Ohio State wants to continue to do because they have to run the ball right. Like they can be passed first, but you have to be able to mix in the run. Sometimes you're not going to throw the ball 100 times a game. So. And when you do run it, you want to be efficient, if not explosive. But the past game is what gets Ohio State there. So I, I think, I do think we'll start to see him lean on it more, expand it. We talked about when we did our like Jeremiah Smith conversation about maybe Julian saying the one area where he can grow still is kind of attacking intermediate deep down the middle of the field. So that's like kind of the area that I'm going to be watching in this game to see if, see if they do that. But I do, I think it's pretty clear. And Ryan Day sort of said this after the Illinois game like they had six games of a body of work. They're getting a better idea of what guys can and can't do. And then the next game after that, they came out and really laid on their passing attack, which was not surprising, but still good to see. And I think that was indicative of who they'd like to be moving forward. And I think that will continue in this game.

[Doug LeMaurice]

Ohio State 72nd in the country in rushing yards per game at 152, 51st in the country in rushing yards per attempt at 4.58. What should Ohio State fans be watching for from the Ohio State rushing attack in this one?

[Bill Landis]

What plays they choose to hang their hat on I think will be interesting. Really kind of lean toward more zone running against Wisconsin. It's very funny, at least for like, for me it's ironic because I have been someone who in the past has like written a lot about them running the stretch play into the short side of the field. It's probably their best run player, right?

[Doug LeMaurice]

Oh.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that maybe if they like kind of come out and pepper, pepper that, mix in some counter off of that to protect it, play action off of it like they like to do, they can do all that stuff. I, I guess like more than like scheme because that can be, you can really kind of whatever. Drive yourself crazy looking at that. What kind of situations are they running into? Like, are they actually getting running game relief from how much they threw the ball against Wisconsin? Are they not running into six seven man boxes all the time? And then if they're not, then those runs should be efficient and they should be explosive. So you want to see an offensive line with opportunities to only have to block six guys. Move those people and get your running backs to the second level and see if they can't get some of these. It's, it's crazy like how non explosive they've been running the ball. But I do think especially with Bo Jackson and Isaiah west, like they have backs who can do it as long as it's blocked the right way to get them there. So I don't know, it's like I'm looking at everything in the run game but I think like what they choose to run, who they choose to run it with and like you know how many bodies the defense is, is sending towards stopping the run. I think are probably the three main things.

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[Doug LeMaurice]

It's always. It remains funny to me. Ryan Day said it again on Wednesday. I think he used the phrase feel free in regarding to, in regards to running backs breaking tackles and creating explosive plays in the run game or maybe just like getting perfect blocking that. He said we're trying to score a touchdown on every play. So even as they emphasize efficiency, feel free to create a big play whenever you want to. We're not limiting, you know, like, don't try for seven yards, try for 70. And like, he's not beating the drum, but he's sort of massaging the drum for more explosive plays in the run game that I think he just believes come down to a guy breaking a tackle or maybe, you know, a guy or two holding their block an extra second so that a guy can really get to the second level.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I think they are missing and I would say they're missing in the passing game a little bit. Right. Like we, we love to see the plays where Carnell Tate runs behind the defense and Jeremiah Smith runs behind the defense, but they have not gotten really, or they gotten very little of. Guy catches the ball four yards down the field and takes, turns it into a 60 yard touchdown. And they've gotten none of that in the, in the run game. Right. So I think, yeah, I think it's, it's, it's a little bit time for like Ohio State's playmakers to start kind of being that with the ball in their hands. And I'm not saying that like Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate have, have not done that because they've made some spectacular plays this year. But like, you know, think about what Jeremiah did against Oregon in the Rose bowl last year. Right. Think about like Trevion Henderson, every time he touched the ball was a threat to go 70 yards. And I don't think they're like void of, of players capable of doing that. We just like, it needs to start coming out a little more, I think, because those are the kind of plays that really flip games for you.

[Doug LeMaurice]

Yeah. So I, I think on both sides of the ball, this is not, this is not a be wary of Penn State situation. They're a mess. But at the same time, respect their talent in certain areas and they are, I'll tell you what, they're as good of an OH and four team in the Big Ten as you're ever gonna See, just this is not your run of the mill, winless Big Ten Conference team. Like, this is. This is next level.

[Bill Landis]

I've never seen a team without a win against a power conference team who looks so threatening. I actually, like, I didn't. I know they hadn't won a Big Ten game yet, but I was like, looking at the schedules, like, man, their wins are Nevada, FIU and Villanova. That's it.

[Doug LeMaurice]

And I'm sure Villanova's like, oh, my God, we had our chance. What are we doing? We shouldn't. They were there for the taking. All right, let's make our picks 20 and a half over, under 40, four and a half. It's not a betting show, but it provides context for what we are trying to think about here. Bill Landis, what is your pick for Penn State at Ohio State?

[Bill Landis]

I think, I think Ohio State will more or less kind of play the game we've seen from it, which is play slow. Not a lot of plays. Maybe there's one or two splashes, but. But I don't know. I'm conflicted on whether or not Ohio State's gonna like, come out and like, really try to put it. Put it on Penn State right away. And. Because there's the familiarity and, and that familiarity just sort of breeds a lot of unknown in terms of like, curveballs potentially. I think there could be a feeling out process that keeps it from being like a real kind of runaway. So I'm, I'm under on my total and. But I do have a High State covering. I have 31 7. Because I just don't think Penn State's going to do a whole lot offensively either.

[Doug LeMaurice]

Do you think. Let's stick it to Jim Knowles isn't a thing that would affect how Ohio State tries to play or how long they keep the pedal down if they're comfortably ahead late in the game.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, Yeah. I think, I don't think Ryan Day's taking out the starters before Ohio state has like 48 points. If they, if that's like an opportunity that presents itself.

[Doug LeMaurice]

Okay. I don't feel great about any of this because I just. I, I think all things are in play. I, I think the idea that this is, like, this is the last thing that Penn State really has to play for is coming and look like a real team against the number one team in the country. Right. Like Audrey was saying, like, she's not. They're probably not going to make a bowl now. They have Indiana coming into their place in a couple, I guess, next week. Right. But it's like, okay, so it's like they're playing the number one and number two teams in the country in back to back weeks. But as we've said a million times and written many times this week, Ohio State is the defining program for Penn State. And so as much as like, man, you, you don't want to come have your doors blown off and you're in your place by Indiana, Ohio State remains the benchmark. So for them to come out and play their version of the best game that they are capable of playing right now, I think very much is possible. But also that very much is probably nowhere near Ohio State's version of a best game. So I would not bet this heavy either way because it could just be. It's completely overwhelmed. And Ohio State, like you said, wins 51 to 6. But my guess is that it's actually more competitive than that. And there are moments when you would watch this game and be like, you know what, how, how did this really fall apart for Penn State? So I'm right with you. I also have 31 for Ohio State, but I have 31 13, which is Penn State offensively being able to run the ball a little bit with K Tron Allen, maybe just like you hit one shot, maybe you get a special teams play. Audrey Snyder was saying that's like their best unit so far. So like three scoring opportunities would be probably great for Pen. Like, it's like, if you told Terry Smith right now, would you take 13? You might be like, yeah, actually I, I would take 13. Give me 13, because I really don't want a zero. And like, I don't know that we're gonna get to 35, so I'll take 13. So that is not, That's Penn State with the points, but that's not a. I'm not a confident Penn State with the point. So 31 13. Yeah, I mean, I think that kind of thing, right? You got grunk. Meyer is still in the game. But as you're saying, like, well, maybe, maybe Ohio State's like not letting a backdoor cover because they, they don't want Penn State to score any more points. They, they, they want this to look like the biggest possible destruction that they could, they could put in the history book. So we're in the same range. And we will do a post game show after this one. We will both be at Ohio Stadium on Saturday, which we have not done so far this year. This will be the first game that I've attended in person. But Bill, we asked our Substack subscribers what they think we should do. And they were very much open to the idea of us going to the games and being able to go to post game news conferences and gather information and use that to inform our coverage and then being okay with coming back and not having the post game be instantaneous. So our Ohio State post game shows on this YouTube channel have been instantaneous so far this year. They will not. It will not be instantaneous on Saturday, but it will be when we get home. So it will probably be in what, the six o' clock range? Possibly six. Yeah, six to seven, probably.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, that sounds right.

[Doug LeMaurice]

Okay. And we'll share our thoughts on that. And then we are also planning to do at the moment, right. We're still planning to do a national post game show at 11pm on other stuff. Is that still the plan, boss?

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, we'll see how long we end up going on the Ohio State thing show. I guess the thing is like there's not a.

[Doug LeMaurice]

Huge marquee game, right?

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. Like the best game is like not till 10 o' clock at night, which like we're not gonna wait till that's over to talk about.

[Doug LeMaurice]

Right.

[Bill Landis]

So.

[Doug LeMaurice]

So I'll tell you what we'll see. Subscribe to this channel. So if we do go live for a national post game show late, you'll know that it's popping, Right? That's the best way to make sure you don't miss anything. And if you don't see one, that means we decided not to do it. But we're definitely going to do the Ohio State post game show. Ohio State, Penn State, everything we saw, everything we thought, everyone we talked to, we'll do that when we get back from Ohio Stadium.

[Bill Landis]

That is a plan.

[Doug LeMaurice]

Because like Cincinnati, Utah really could be interesting. But as you said, that's like super late.

[Bill Landis]

I don't know. Yeah. You want to do a 130Cincinnati, Utah post game show?

[Doug LeMaurice]

Yeah, probably not. All right, we'll see how it goes. We're our own bosses. We can do whatever we want. I do what Bill tells me to do. Like subscribe, tell a friend about the Bill and Doug show. If you want more coverage from us, you can try our [e-mail] we write a bunch of stuff there. We do a Wednesday show exclusively for Substack subscribers where we do like a big picture topic and really dive in deep. That's where you. Where we do what you watch and what you eat and what you're thinking and then we do a Sunday reaction show where we take questions and comments from Substack subscribers. And we do that on Sunday morning. So if you like this, you'd like that, and come on over and. And see what you think on Substack. But for now, we appreciate you guys letting us ride with you during this college football season. Happy Halloween. Have a great time trick or treating with the family or handing out candy or whatever you're going to do for Halloween. For now, he's Bill Landis. I'm Doug Le Maurice, and that was the Bill and Doug Show.