← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Ohio State vs. Washington Big Game Breakdown: Picks and Preview for Buckeyes-Huskies, plus Whatcha, Whatcha Watching, Eating and Thinking
01:55:19
It's an Ohio State vs. Washington deep dive on this episode, as Bill Landis and Doug Lesmerises break down both sides of the ball for the Buckeyes and the Huskies.
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- [00:00]
Bill Landis
Foreign.
- [00:06]
Doug Lesmerises
Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show. Big game breakdown. Doug Le Maurice, Bill Landis here to talk about Ohio State at Washington, 3:30 Eastern on Saturday, 12:30 local time. Is it on TV? Let me see if it's on TV.
- [00:20]
Bill Landis
Yeah, it's on CBS.
- [00:21]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah, it looks like it is. I was at a college football game the other day, Landis, that was not on TV, and it lasted like 94 minutes.
- [00:28]
Bill Landis
Yeah, it's great. It's like a high school game, right? No media timeouts.
- [00:31]
Doug Lesmerises
No media timeouts.
- [00:32]
Bill Landis
Halftime, I think, is a little shorter. That's great.
- [00:33]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah. So we're going to dive in both sides of the ball with an Ohio State Washington breakdown. And at the end, we will do what you watch and what you eat and what you're thinking. We normally do that on our Wednesday premium show for our Substack subscribers. You can find that over on substack billanddugosu.com substack.com Right, Landis. But. So we did a big, Big Ten quarterback ranking on that show for the premium subscribers, but we decided to save Watcher for this. So you're gonna get like a good at least half an hour per each side of the ball. And then I have some squash takes to drop on people. Landis. Some strong squash takes. It's fall.
- [01:16]
Bill Landis
All right. It doesn't feel like it, but it is fall.
- [01:19]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah. So this is. Let's see how many times I played. This is the 13th time that Ohio State and Washington have played. Ohio State has a 93 edge in the series. Last win for Washington was September 10, 1994. Since then, Ohio State won in 95.0307. And on the last game of Urban Meyer's coaching career, at least in College, the 2018 Rose bowl on January 1, 2019 is the last time these two teams met. 28, 23. And like Ryan Day was talking about this, Landis, like, that was, you know, that was kind of like that was him taking over the program. That in the locker room after the game, Urban Meyer put a whistle around Ryan Day's neck. So the, the last time he played Washington was the last time he wasn't the head coach of the Ohio State Buckeyes. Now he's going to Husky Stadium as a defending national championship head coach.
- [02:15]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I actually hadn't thought of that. I believe it was Bill Rabinowitz who asked him about it on Wednesday night. Yeah. So I'm sure. I don't. I don't know. So, like, that's interesting. I don't know that it like, creates any sentimentality on Ryan Day's part because, like, it was the last day. He wasn't Ohio State's head coach, but it wasn't like his first game as the head coach. So I don't know, it's an interesting wrinkle, I guess, to this game. But, yeah, the last time they played, Ryan Day was offensive coordinator, and he has not been since then.
- [02:43]
Doug Lesmerises
And he did talk about that. He thought Washington fought hard, played hard, came back in that game and made it close at the end. And he was sort of talking about the idea that Ohio State almost had a little bit of a sour taste in his mouth as the game ended because they almost like they didn't put it away the way they wanted to. I will say, as a now a. Certainly a closer observer now of Washington football, Washington felt incidental in that Rose Bowl. It was the first time Urban Meyer was coaching in the Rose Bowl. It was his last game. It was a big deal. Everybody knew Urban Meyer was going out. It was kind of like this crazy season that had started with Ryan Days, the interim coach, because Urban Meyer was suspended and now he's. He's going out this way. They'd already announced the changeover, and it was almost like Urban Meyer capping off historic career in Rose bowl against opponent X. You know what I mean? Like, no offense to watch.
- [03:39]
Bill Landis
Yeah. No. Yeah. It did not entirely matter who Ohio State. Ohio State was playing that day. That game, by the way, refreshing my memory, Ohio State was up 28 to 3 3. Went up 283 with eight minutes left in the third quarter and then didn't score again. Washington scored three touchdowns in the fourth quarter, one in the last minute to make it 28, 23.
- [04:01]
Doug Lesmerises
And I only say that to say this about Washington, clearly, the Don James era in Washington football. They won a national championship then, like, Washington is not incidental at all. Washington's one of the great powers on the west coast. And now two years removed from the national championship game. What Washington is doing now in year two of Jed Fish, Washington is not at all incidental to what is happening in this game. What is happening in the Big Ten and the. The diff. It's. It's. It's an interesting difference to me that like. Like. Oh, yeah, you know, like in 2020, you know, seven seasons ago. Oh, Washington's good. Yeah, they're good. Yeah, that's fine. Whatever. And they're much more than that now to me, which is just a credit to what Washington has been even they were in the Rose Bowl. They were in the stinking Rose Bowl. The Chris Peterson era at Washington was great. Like they were in the Rose Bowl. But I think they're, they've, in the last seven years, they've moved beyond where they were in 2018, at least I think in the minds of Ohio State fans.
- [05:04]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think so. And also too, like, think about the, the 10 years of the 14 playoff, right? Like the, the list of teams that aren't Ohio State, Alabama, Georgia, Clemson and Oklahoma that have made the playoff is pretty sure. And Washington's one of them, right? So, like, it is they were down for a bit and they had a weird Transition from Kaylin DeBoer leaving after making the national title game and, and between Kaylin DeBoer and Chris Peterson. But yeah, it's a good program. It's a winning program and it's a really, really tough place to play.
- [05:35]
Doug Lesmerises
This has been a discussion all week. This betting line in the off season was 14. Then it opened like when the games ended last weekend, around 12.5. And it has steadily gone down since then to 10.5, 10, 9 and a half, 8 and a half. I looked at four online books, Landis, just before we started recording this on Thursday morning. I saw it at eight and a half for the spread at two places, eight at one place, and seven and a half at one place. We're going to dig into some of the underlying numbers, some of the things that we have gleaned from rewatching both of these teams. Do you think there are some underlying numbers here that are contributing to this line coming down almost a full touchdown since the summer?
- [06:27]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think primarily, I think some of Ohio State's offensive numbers because the you and I were talking about this not on a podcast, but some of the like advanced statistical metrics for offense. Ohio State actually is not very good in right now, but it's getting, it gets no credit for what it did against Grambling because Grambling's an FCS team, so like, whatever. And Ohio State scored at will in that game, like none of it counts in those sort of numbers. Did not move the ball incredibly well against Texas and then really struggled to finish drives against Ohio despite moving the ball really well. So like all those things come into play, you know. Do I think they're reflective of the quality of Ohio State's offense? No, not necessarily. But when people are doing their power ratings, like, that's the information they have to go off of. And at the moment, Ohio State's offense does not look, compared to its past success Certainly is a few degrees below where it normally is.
- [07:21]
Doug Lesmerises
And Washington can't be stopped offensive.
- [07:24]
Bill Landis
Washington basically has scored every time it has as that had the ball.
- [07:26]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah, yeah. So. So those two things I think contribute to that very quickly on the head coaches. Jed Fish, 49 years old, second year at Washington, New Jersey native. Florida grad Ryan Day is 46 years old. Just a little note here. Jed fish was a GA at Florida in 1999 and 2000. Ryan Day was a GA at Florida in 2005. So they both have gators in their background. Jed Fish, much more so as a graduate of the University of Florida. And every time Billy Napier loses another game, you raise your eyebrow about Jed Fish in Florida. But he's got something good going at Washington right now and you know, whatever. We can just run through every good coach in the Big Ten and pretend that Florida is going to steal them. But Jed Fish is pretty darn good at this. He is the play caller at Washington. If we were trying. There was a long time where Ryan Day and Lincoln Riley were compared head to head, reasonably so in a lot of ways. They were offensive coordinators who became head coaches at blue blood programs, taking over for established head coaches without ever, ever having been a head coach before. They both Lincoln Riley and Ryan Day have both developed quarterbacks and that kind of thing. Right. They were kind of like this young hotshot offensive coordinator model. Ryan Lincoln Riley forgot how to coach football for three years. So like we don't need to compare anybody to him right now. Jed Fish is not a terrible comparison for Ryan Day. Now Jed Fish is three years older. He's sort of behind Ryan Day on the track a little bit. They, they became head coaches around the same time because Jed Fish was a head coach at Arizona for three years and now he's in year two at Washington. So he's in his fifth year as a head coach, Ryan Day in the seventh. But in terms of offensive minded guys who want to kind of play a pro style kind of offense, it's it. I think Jed Fish could look at Ryan Day and say it worked for him. I think it can work for me.
- [09:28]
Bill Landis
They have similar career paths but also spending time, time in the NFL as well. The one thing that's like super interesting about Chad Fish is like he didn't play football, did not play high school football, did not play college football. He was a tennis player. Ryan Day also likes tennis, by the way, so like that'd be a good match. That's the main difference. Like Ryan Day is a former pretty Good college quarterback in New Hampshire, which like, has influenced, I think, like obviously the way that he sees the game and what his strengths are as sort of like an on field coach. And, and Jed Fish, I think has similar qualities despite not having that, that athletic background. So that's, that's a kind of an interesting tangent, I guess, about Jed Fish. But yeah, no, I think, even if, even if you look at like stylistically how they play offense, kind of similar, like, and I think Jed Fish is pretty influenced by the time he spent with the LA Rams. But like a lot of condensed formations, tight splits. Jed Fish will play with two tight ends. He likes to play action shots from under center the same way that Ryan Day does. Like, they're, they have different styles of quarterback and have throughout their head coaching careers. But I think if you got them in a room together, they might speak a little bit of the same language offensively.
- [10:41]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah, I think for Ohio State fans, if you watch Washington, you will see familiar things. I think Ohio State fans, and it's a little bit of they'll run that play action, deep shot kind of stuff for Washington and then Demond Williams Jr. Will either take it and if it's not there, he might take off and he's got a little bit of pocket Justin Fields in him now in the sense of like if Justin Fields was 6 inches shorter, but like just that idea of if you give him time, he will stand back there and throw it 60 yards down the field and drop it on somebody's hands and if it's not there, he will take off and run for 17 yards and like that.
- [11:21]
Bill Landis
Also very comfortable holding the ball for six seconds in the pocket waiting for it to develop.
- [11:28]
Doug Lesmerises
So, so we'll, we'll, we'll have to talk about that because, because I, you've mentioned that and, and I was on alert for that when I went through because the way we split it up as I had a Washington offense. I want to talk about that a little bit, but that has been something that has continued and I don't even want to use the word plague because I like it. I like quarterbacks who hold the ball, but, but it has followed Justin Fields into the NFL. But the thing that you'll usually find right there's kind of like a, A triangle of like big play touchdowns, sacks and interceptions. And like you, you want to have the big play touchdowns and then if you have one of the other two, I think you can kind of live right. And so the thing about the mono, because sometimes if you're trying to take a shot and it's not there, then you get like, and you get rid of the ball. You throw a bad pick, right? If you're holding it because you're waiting for something to develop and the result of holding it is you almost never throw picks, but you do take sacks sometimes because you're, you're also the times you don't take sacks, you're going to hang into the last second and then make a big time throw. I like that trade off. I liked it with Justin Fields, I like it with Demond Williams. Do you like those trade offs or do you think they're bad?
- [12:53]
Bill Landis
I mean taking a sack is certainly better than giving the ball to the other teams. Look at that. Yeah, yeah. No, I think it comes with the territory, right? And if you, if you analyzed it like lost yardage on those sacks compared to yardage you gained from scrambling and court design quarterback run with a lot of those guys have probably at like at worst evens out and it might even be in the plus for the, for the design rushes in the scramble. So yeah, it just sort of comes with the territory. But, but it is a thing, right? Like Justin Fields pressure to sack rate was high in college, it's high in the NFL. Demond Williams Jr. He's not played nearly as much, but his is pretty high too. It's like what makes Lamar Jackson such a freak because he's like the same style of player but his pressure to sack rate is low. Right? Because you can't, because you can't bring him down. You can't get to him. But yeah, that's not like. Well, it's not, it's not the kind of thing that's going to be like actually the mind Williams Jr. Stinks because, because he takes too many sacks. But it is, it is, it is a part of his game that I think could creep up in this one. Like if Ohio State can get to him.
- [13:55]
Doug Lesmerises
Because the thing that also happens sometimes is you'll have a quarterback who doesn't get sacked and doesn't throw picks like maybe Drew Aller at Penn State. And then they make no big time plays because they don't sit back there and wait for anything to develop, right? And so sometimes it, if you're calling a shot, sometimes it takes time to develop and you've got to be willing. So like if you're, if you're getting out of there, it's like first read, it's not there. The heck, I'll throw it in the stands or first read, it's not there. Here comes the pressure. I'm going to check it down. You're never going to make a big play, but if you're like, no, I. I'll do whatever it takes to make this big play, which is sometimes stand in there with a guy in your face and then make the throw. And it's sometimes stand in there with a guy in your face and have that guy in your face sack you. So anyway, I, I want to talk about that a lot, but I actually want to go second because.
- [14:43]
Bill Landis
Okay.
- [14:43]
Doug Lesmerises
Do you think it's fair. Are the two best units in this game the Washington offense and the Ohio State defense?
- [14:52]
Bill Landis
Yeah. Yeah. Without question. The two that are playing the best coming into the game. Yeah.
- [14:56]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah. Like that's a little bit of the strength on strength matchup here.
- [15:00]
Bill Landis
This is the far more compelling matchup. Yeah.
- [15:03]
Doug Lesmerises
That, that Ryan Day even said Washington has putted twice the whole season and Ryan Day was joking. You know, we were watching our punt clips and it took like 20 seconds and they were both pooch punts. One of those punts, by the way, they like punted it down to the one yard line, but the guy who was trying to knock it back to the one was standing in the end zone when he did it. So it was almost a perfect thing. But it went out for a touchback. But they haven't punted for. They haven't like boomed a punt. The punt that I saw, because I didn't. I watched two of the three games for Washington. I didn't watch the UC Davis game against the FCS opponent. But like that punt was like from the 37 yard line. Like the punter has not like been able to loosen up his leg at all. So they don't. So Washington's offense is, has not punted and Ohio State's defense is as good, as good as any in the country. So let's save that. We'll start on the other side of the ball with a Washington defense that is probably like undoubtedly the fourth best unit in this game and an Ohio State offense, Bill, that is certainly good, certainly explosive at times, but also, is it perhaps less efficient and consistent than Ohio State fans might think or realize three games in?
- [16:13]
Bill Landis
See, I. I don't know. Yeah, it's hard because like, again, a lot of those numbers you look at don't account for the Grambling game. But the ones that do with the ones that do, obviously the efficiency looks better because they scored, I think every time they had the ball. And like efficiency wise against Ohio was fine. Like that net Success rate thing for the Ohio game was like, was chasm in Ohio State's favor. They just didn't finish drives. They were not efficient against Texas. Part of that field position, part of that I think is like personal choices by Ryan Day on how he wanted to manage that game. So, so I, I actually the numbers I think could lead you to the conclusion that you just said, right? Like maybe this offense is not quite in the shape that we think it is, but a lot of, a lot of that is one game. Now it's the one game they played against the like the one power conference opponent they played, but it was also against the defense that like is in the conversation I think for best in the country along with Ohio State in Texas. And like it was Julian saying it's first start. It was Brian Hartland's first game as a play caller. So I don't, I'm not looking at that game and seeing like, yep, that's who Ohio State is. I don't think we know who Ohio State is, which is part of the confusion for me at least a little bit going into this game and why I think maybe the spread is as close as it is because there's not really anything about Washington's defense that tells you it's going to be in a position to stop Ohio State. Like, like Washington as you mentioned has played Colorado State, UC Davis and Washington State. To put that in perspective for Ohio State fans, if you look at ESPN's SP+ metric, all three of those teams are worse than Ohio, like by a decent guy, including UC Davis, because Bill Colley does a nice job of like working in the FCS teams into those rankings too. So like they've played nobody and I've actually given some stuff up. So why would anyone think they're equipped to stop Ohio State's offense provided Ohio State handles like the intangible things. Well, like the noise of communication, play calling mechanisms, all that stuff Julian saying, not rattled on the road on his first road start, like those are all things that could happen, but if they don't happen, I don't know why Washington's defense would suddenly turn into a unit that would stop Ohio State more often than not when it hasn't really been able to stop anybody. It's played and it's played three bad teams.
- [18:32]
Doug Lesmerises
So having watched the Washington offense in these two games against Colorado State and Washington State, I came away with two conclusions. One is, man, this Washington offense looks unstoppable. And the other is man, these games are close. How is the Washington Offense unstoppable. Yet the Colorado State game is tied at 14 at the half or the Washington State game is a one score game in the third quarter. And you're just watching these moments where, where there was a situation at the end of the first half against Colorado State in the opener where Demond Williams was looking to the sideline on a third down snap and the snap, the shotgun snap hit him in the chest and he wasn't looking and it fell to the ground and was recovered by Colorado State. And you needed the Washington State defense to stand up there and they let Colorado State like go right in for a touchdown with 14 seconds left in the half when you needed your defense to stand up. And then like in that Colorado State game, Colorado State is desperate. Right? This is the one thing about this that I think is, is interesting for the Ohio State offense is the Washington offense being unstoppable can put the opposing offense on its heels right away. Because I think you can feel like, man, we got to score every time because they're going to score every time. But against Colorado State, Colorado State got on their heels and was desperate and then they'd complete a 4th and 10 and then they'd complete a 4th and 12 and then they had like a 4th and 17 and the receiver was wide open and he fell down and the quarterback hit him in the hands while the receiver was like on the ground trying to catch it. And that's the only way that Washington got a stop on 4th and 17. That the power and consistency of the Washington offense should give the Washington defense an edge. It feels like sometimes. And then will the Washington defense like doesn't take that edge and do anything with it.
- [20:19]
Bill Landis
No, that I. So I didn't really watch much of the Colorado Stadium, I kind of just watched highlights, but I watched the Apple cup in its entirety and you definitely felt that, right, Like Washington's offense was not going to be stopped even at one point. I think it was 21 to 7. Right. So, so Washington state one can't run, so why would it try? And two sort of had to throw, but it had to throw and it threw like it wasn't, it wasn't like there was no, there was no secret about what Washington State was going to do and had to do in that game. But then they still found success until the fourth quarter. So it was, it was a one score game going into the fourth quarter and then there was a, a weird pick six on like they were going. Washington State was going for it on fourth down and the quarterback had to throw the ball and then the receiver broke off of his route and he just like threw it into the belly of the Washington safety and he returned it for a touchdown. And then they got the ball back and they fumbled on their next play. So it was like I, I went from like, what I think it was 38, 20, 21 to like 54, 21 in like four minutes.
- [21:18]
Doug Lesmerises
And even Washington State onside kicked because they couldn't stop Washington. So they were like, we got to try to steal a possession. And they onside kicked and then they gave Washington a short field on that. So that's an ex example of like the Washington offense is, is like putting opposing teams behind the eight ball. And I think what happened in both the Colorado State and Washington State games is if eventually the Washington offense just like wore the other team down like in the fourth quarter, but for the first three quarters, the Washington defense did not do a great job of stopping people.
- [21:48]
Bill Landis
They did not. And the one thing you kind of touched on it that I think the play that is like most in my mind from the apple cup for Washington, Washington, defensively, they were up 217 in the second quarter and it was third and seven. Like they had all the momentum. It looked like Washington State had no shot to like, to hang in the game. And then on third and seven, up two touchdowns, Ryan Walters, a defensive coordinator, like, blitzed. And it reminded me, it reminded me a ton of like Jim Knowles against Michigan in 2022. It's like, you don't need to do that. Like, I get it, you're aggressive. You play, man. Like, I understand you're gonna blow this team's doors off if you just get off the field and go score again. And it's 287 and they blitzed and they rushed five and they played, man. And his safety got mashed up on the slot receiver and like, it was a weird back foot throw in. Washington State converted and then went down and got a field goal. They didn't score touchdown, but they went down and got points when it looked like that drive, drive was doomed. And it's just like those like miscalculated moments of aggression, especially against a team like Ohio State. Like, they'll kill you against Ohio State. So so far, maybe they've just made these games closer than they need to be for Washington. But like, Ohio State converts those and like, oh, it's a very different dynamic. So. And I don't think I tried to ask Ryan Day this on Tuesday and he didn't really answer it. I Understand why? Because you don't want to talk about game plan stuff going into a game. But I don't. And we had similar conversations going into the national championship against Notre Dame, right? Like, Notre Dame played a bunch of men. Are they going to change? Like, no, not really. That's what they do. I don't think Washington's gonna stop being aggressive and stop playing, man, and stop being in your face just because they're playing Ohio State. And it could work, I guess, to maybe get to Julian Saying and rattle him. Like, Julian Saying's numbers against while being pressured are not great. I think a lot of that is the weird interception, slash, fumble that he had against Ohio when he got hit. So I'm sure Washington will want to test that. But because Washington is so aggressive, I think there's going to be some opportunities for Ohio State to hit some big plays.
- [23:54]
Doug Lesmerises
Do they get after the passer at all? Like, is that in terms of this Ohio State offensive line holding up and trying to protect, saying, yeah, they do.
- [24:04]
Bill Landis
Actually, it's. It's interesting to me because I mentioned that they. They look pretty similar on offense. They look fairly similar on defense, too, at least. Like, structure, like. Structurally.
- [24:15]
Doug Lesmerises
Okay.
- [24:15]
Bill Landis
We've talked a lot, right, about these five man fronts that Ohio State's playing on defense. Washington does that, too. And I don't know. So there's a couple of different ways to go at that because, like, last year, Washington's defensive coordinator was Steve Belichick, who's obviously Bill Belichick's kid, who was incredibly influenced by what Bill Belichick does defensively, just like Matt Patricia is. But Ryan Walters is now the new defensive coordinator. He. He has never worked for the Belichicks or worked for the Patriots, but when he was a defensive coordinator at Illinois in 21 and 22, guess where Brett Bielema worked before he got to Illinois. Oh, so, like, there's weird. Yeah, there's weird overlap there. Like, I think these two teams are going to get on the field on Saturday. Like, oh, yeah, I've seen this before on both sides of the ball. Like, there's no. It'll be interesting. Like, where the wrinkles come into play. I think to move, to move out of that. And, you know, you can only do so much in football. It's not the first time the two teams of similar styles have faced off against each other, but both sides of the ball, they at times do look like mirror images of each other. But to answer your question, like, yeah, Washington does get after it. Again, it's Hard. They get after it pretty good up front if you look at the numbers, especially without blitzing. The pressure rate without blitzing is top 20 in the country. But, like, a lot of that is what happened. Like, Washington State's offensive line couldn't block them. Like Zach Durfee. Zach Durfee, the edge rusher for Washington, had 11 pressures against Washington State. Yes, he has 13 on the year. He had 11 against Washington State. And all he was doing was like, outside shoulder, inside spin move, outside shoulder, inside spin move. And one of those plays ended up with an interception. Another, I think, ended up in a sack. So, like, it was. He was getting home and hitting the quarterback. I just don't know. And, like, their feet will move around a little bit, too. They had him lined up on interior offensive lineman sometimes. Like, I'm not. I'm not trying to, like, take away from that kind of production, because 11 pressures against anybody is pretty impressive. But I. It's because of the caliber of opponent. I. I don't feel like I have a great feel for exactly how good Washington's defensive front is. Like, the pressure numbers are good. They're very big at defensive tackle. Like, the. The top five. The top five guys they play at defensive tackle average 316 pounds. A lot of that. A lot of the heavy lifting, no pun intended, there being done by Samote Pepa, who they got from Utah, who's like 350 pounds. So it's a pretty. It's a beefy defensive line. It's not nearly as athletic, I think, as Texas's defensive line, but some big dudes up there that Ohio State's gonna have to contend with.
- [26:51]
Doug Lesmerises
Do they call the guy who lines up next to him Salt? I hope so.
- [26:54]
Bill Landis
I don't know. Maybe. That'd be pretty good. He doesn't. He actually doesn't play that much. He's £350. He's on. He's on the field for, like. He's like. He gets, like, the Jordan Davis treatment. It's like you can only play so much at your absolute highest level, so he'll play like 15 snaps a game.
- [27:08]
Doug Lesmerises
He's 16th in defensive snaps for them through three games with 48. He's fourth among their interior guys. You've seen that, sir. Patrick Stewart hosting Saturday Night Live.
- [27:19]
Bill Landis
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [27:21]
Doug Lesmerises
And Peppa.
- [27:23]
Bill Landis
Yeah, the John Mulaney bit about him being surprised that Peppa's there. Yeah, it's good.
- [27:27]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah.
- [27:28]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [27:29]
Doug Lesmerises
You know what? We shouldn't be surprised about, Bill. We should not be surprised about how good the fall collection from Roback feels and looks. It's just sharp, right? It's that time of year. You're getting in the hoodie mindset, you're getting in the quarter zip mindset. Doesn't mean you can't buy like a nice collared short sleeve shirt. And Roback has those too. But it's, it's squash season and it's quarter zip hoodie season and roback.com is the place for you right now. Just go check it out and, and you can look through their game day collection. They have it for so many different teams. If you're an Ohio State fan, if you're a Washington fan, you go to roback.com and just peruse and you can either. Maybe you want to buy something for yourself, maybe you want to bookmark some stuff for holiday presents. Like it's not that far away. It's like, oh, let's remember this. Like sometimes you can't find something good to get for somebody. Say, hey, there's something like roback.com that I want. Right? And so like mark that down if you don't want to buy it right now. But you could buy it right now because you're going to get a code from us. You can use code BAD20 to get 20 off your first order. @roback.com Again, it's this fall game day collection. They have a lot of good stuff, Bill, that if you don't want like a college football logo on your shirt, you can just get like cool gray or black or charcoal kind of stuff. But if you want a little bit of logo stuff, they have some of the subtle things that work in. So it's roback.com put in code B A D20 at R H O-B-A-C-K.com and you'll get 20 off that first order. All right, so some beefy guys up front. That has been a thing, right? It's I, I, you're saying like Pepper. I do think for Ohio State fans, anytime they hear like a team has some interesting defensive tackles, that's an alarm bell because they're like, oh, you mean like Michigan and how Michigan's defensive tackle single handedly beat Ohio State last year. I know this is not that. But defensive tackles, good defensive tackles matter.
- [29:27]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I, I think, and they're deep too. So I think those guys will have an ability to stay fresh. Which like raises an interesting question for Ohio State because I actually didn't know this. I don't know if you did. I I know that Ohio State plays slow and has played slow the last couple of years. They are the slowest playing team in college football this year.
- [29:49]
Doug Lesmerises
So it's fascinating. I was looking at stuff for a story about a week ago and they were in 2018 in 14 games they ran like 180 more plays than they ran last year in 16 games.
- [30:06]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [30:06]
Doug Lesmerises
And it is a function of clock rules. But it's just so interesting that Ryan Day, when the, when the clock rules first came out and they were going to run the clock after first downs and like you're going to, you're going to shorten games and not have as many plays. He was mad about it and now he's gone 180 degrees and they are completely leaning into it. But I don't know that any of it is strategic within a game. I think it is all strategic for a long 16 game season. They're just trying to limit hits on guys bodies. But do you think in this game it actually is strategic for the game because it keeps them on Williams Jr. Off the field?
- [30:40]
Bill Landis
Yeah, it keeps them on Williams Jr. Off the field. But the, but the, the flip side of that is like if you play a little faster then you don't let Washington probably sub as much up front as it would like.
- [30:49]
Doug Lesmerises
Okay.
- [30:50]
Bill Landis
On this defensive line. Right. So. But it's also hard or I would imagine harder to play with tempo in an environment that, that is that loud. So. Okay, we'll see. Like they've, Ohio State has really not put the pedal down all that much like Ryan Day does, like the very tempo and you know, I understand, I understand certainly wanting to shorten the game against Texas and they did that. But then they just kind of kept playing slow in the other two games too. So, so maybe they were holding back and they'll vary tempo a little more in this game. I, I don't know. I guess it'll depend on what they feel like they can get communicated. But there are, there are pluses to playing both ways in this game. But I'm not entirely sure how Ohio State will, will play it. But their track record at least over the last year plus is that they're gonna play pretty slow.
- [31:36]
Doug Lesmerises
Do you think that the crowd noise will have an impact on the Ohio State offense?
- [31:43]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I could, I could see a couple procedural penalties. Right. Like two, two first year starting tackles. I, I don't like a quarterback who they're gonna go on silent count. I would imagine so. And they had to do that. I think they did it against Texas last year in the Cotton bowl because that was basically a road game. So like some of these guys have, have handled that and fairly raucous environments. But yeah, I would, I would expect a false starter too from Ohio State's offensive line in this game.
- [32:13]
Doug Lesmerises
I mean, ask, you know, I kind of asked about that in terms of the center, Carson Hinsman handling all that and Ryan Day sort of was like, I mean, it's not an excuse, you know, like there's no reason we shouldn't be able to run our offense. We just have to do what we have to do. Veterans center does matter. I, I, I am just expecting to some degree environment, stage, crowd noise, logistics that it will have some effect on Julian saying, whether it's a slow start, whether it's something in on a third down where, you know. Yeah, but I, I also sort of thought like, hey, first game, first time play caller will have some effect on Julian saying, against Texas and then he basically did everything they asked him to do. They didn't ask him to do too much and they've been letting him go since then. I don't think that the game plan for Ohio State offensively can protect Julian saying in this one because I think if you're thinking that way, Washington's gonna put the pedal down and maybe put you behind the eight ball. Do you think that they're just gonna let, they're, because that they admitted that afterward they didn't want to put too much on Julian sand against Texas. I think they'll put it on him.
- [33:20]
Bill Landis
Against Washington, I think they'll take shots because I'm not, again, I'm not expecting Washington to change what it does defensively. There will be opportunities for one on ones without safety help in this game that did not exist against Texas. Texas plays an entirely different style of defense, fairly conservative in terms of like its coverage like, and being soft. Washington will mix in some of that just like Ohio State will. But Washington will play in your face like much more than Ohio State will or has anyway. So yeah, I don't, I don't think, I don't think Ryan Day, Brian Hartline, Julian saying are going to be presented with those opportunities while they have Jeremiah Smith and Carnal Tate and not take them. But I, I do think they're gonna try to get the run game going only because like that is I think a tried and true way to take the crowd out of it. Right? Like if you're just ripping off six yards per carry, they're gonna stop screaming because you can only scream for so long.
- [34:19]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah.
- [34:20]
Bill Landis
And then, like, they scream their loudest when it's third and long. And if you can run the ball well, you're not going to be in third and long. So, like, the emergence of Bo Jackson, like, obviously is important in this game, but, like, you know, I thought the. It was Ohio as a Mac team, but the run game at least looked explosive the last time Ohio State played. It's still not efficient, but it has been explosive. If they can find some more efficiency and stay ahead of the chains by running the ball a little bit, that would go a long way. I think in. In sort of neutering the impact that the. That noise can have on Ohio State's offense.
- [34:54]
Doug Lesmerises
Who are you guessing carries the ball the most or how do you think they'll split up the carries?
- [34:59]
Bill Landis
I think Jackson will carry the ball the most, but I bet they come out on the first drive with all their old guys. So. Okay, Smith, Tate, cast. Marek, Claire Donaldson would be my guess who's out there first.
- [35:15]
Doug Lesmerises
Okay.
- [35:16]
Bill Landis
To, like, weather that initial very loud storm.
- [35:20]
Doug Lesmerises
Okay. Bo Jackson again, it's like you just like, quick, little early stats. His yards after contact is like 9 yards per carry or something after contact. And. And Donaldson and. And C.J. donaldson and James Peoples are in the threes and the twos. Can Washington cover Ohio State.
- [35:42]
Bill Landis
That for the whole game? No. I think regardless of who plays that. The lingering question with all that is the health of cornerback Takario, who did not play in the Apple cup, and our friend Christian Capel, who we had on earlier in the week. I was reading his notebook the other day, and he said he feels like their coaching staff is talking as if Takario Davis will not play in this game, but he couldn't determine if that was reality or if that was gamesmanship. So Tak Davis didn't play against Washington or Washington State, and then Washington State just threw at his replacement.
- [36:19]
Doug Lesmerises
Okay.
- [36:19]
Bill Landis
They targeted him seven times. He gave up seven catches for 121 yards and a touchdown. That was. That was Leroy Bryant, who's their starting nickel, and he was lifted and they slid it out.
- [36:30]
Doug Lesmerises
They slid him outside.
- [36:31]
Bill Landis
They bumped him outside. Okay, bumped him outside. He got torched. And then they eventually replaced him with a freshman. And then Jet Fish, I think either after that game or early this week, said, like, we're gonna. We're gonna have tryouts to figure out what to do there if Tak Davis can't play. So that's the spot to watch. I mean, even if he does play, I would presume he's not going to be 100. Right. So, so that, that's something too. They have big corners. He and Ephesians price soccer both 6 4, about the same size as Jeremiah Smith. Carnell Tate is not quite that tall, but he's a good size receiver. And even the, the freshman who I think would be most likely to play, Dylan Robinson, he's 6:3. So like they like big corners at Washington. Now Ryan Day I think was asked about that earlier in the week and made mention of like, you know, Ohio State is not that big a corner but like Davis and Igbonosin is pretty big and he's got good length and those guys go against him in practice. So it's not going to be something entirely new for Ohio State's receivers. But I could see if those guys are able to run with Carnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith. Maybe a couple of past attempts that might get batted down or deflected because those guys have so much length. But if the Cario Davis doesn't play, I really don't see any, any shot at all for Washington to consistently stop Ohio State's passing attack. And even if he does like, I still think Ohio State will, will be able to find some success with all the man coverage that Washington is likely to play.
- [37:53]
Doug Lesmerises
And like just we, hey Ryan Walters, we know what you like to do, but this is the best receiver tandem in the country. You can't play man as much as you want to play. Is, is that a thing or is it this? Ryan Walters is in this position and Washington was very excited to get to hire him. Christian Capel on our show said he thought it was the best hire they could make of guys who were just sort of out there and available after he got fired as Purdue's head. You kind of said it earlier, you just, you don't think they're gonna back off of playing man.
- [38:25]
Bill Landis
No, I don't. I don't think so. But the one thing I will add to that is like when we had this conversation about Notre Dame last year, Notre Dame I think played like 70 cover one. Washington's more like 50. So that's still high. That's still like it's, it's much higher than, than a lot of teams. But it's not like they don't have change ups sort of baked into what they do every game. So yeah, they're not Ohio. Julian saying is not going to drop back and see man coverage every time he drops back. But he'll see it more than he has seen it so far this year. He's only seen cover one at least according to Sports Info Solutions. Eight times three. Really? In three games.
- [39:00]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah.
- [39:02]
Bill Landis
So this will be a nice uptick I think. And they like to get man because they have very good receivers and that's.
- [39:08]
Doug Lesmerises
I, I asked Carnell Tate about that two weeks ago and he was like we'll have something for Washington. Like they Ohio State receivers salivate at the idea of getting matched up one on one. And you saw even a couple times when it happened against Ohio it feels like Julian saying took it every time.
- [39:22]
Bill Landis
Yes.
- [39:23]
Doug Lesmerises
Not every time but like their, their three big shots were when they wound up with Tate or Smith one on one just based on a coverage decision by Ohio or maybe the way Ohio State motion guys and created those matchups and that's what Cornell said when we talked about it is just the idea of if you want to play man then Julian saying will just take the best matchup and that's it. So I also wonder if Davis does play and, and Price Sock and, and Davis are big, long, physical corners and they are playing man. I wonder if that means that Brandon Ennis in the slot gets maybe a little more involved in the passing game considering he almost hasn't been involved at all and had no targets in the last game.
- [40:05]
Bill Landis
Yeah, Ohio State is getting like no production from, from the slot position and when they do it's usually because Jeremiah Smith is lined up in the slot. Yeah. So yeah, I thought that too like maybe it could be in this like finally breaking out a little bit. Maybe it's Max Claire. I, I, I do not think you'll see one of the young receivers step in there. I think Brian Hartline was asked a little bit about Brandon last week. Right. And he was like he's our guy, we're rolling with him.
- [40:31]
Doug Lesmerises
And it wasn't like kind of stood up for him.
- [40:33]
Bill Landis
Yeah, he didn't leave it up to like didn't leave anything open of like potentially playing mine, Graham Myelin Graham or Bryson Rogers. So you know, Ohio State does has had two weeks to prepare for this game and there could be some wrinkles that involve different guys perhaps but, but that like they're not going to back away from taking their shots against Price, Hawk and Davis. Even though they're big. It's not like they're big, they're physical. They're good corners. I, I don't like, I don't think either one of them's like a first round draft pick. Right. So they're just like, they're solid college corners that have good Size. So Ohio State is not going to back away from throwing the ball in their direction, but there could be some openings in the middle of the field because the guy, the slot guy who played outside last week looked awful. He'll presumably be back in the slot and also they're going to be. Washington will be shorthanded at linebacker. Their mike linebacker Buddha got hurt at the end of the game against Washington State and he'll be out for a while. So I think he might be getting replaced by a freshman too.
- [41:31]
Doug Lesmerises
Good player.
- [41:31]
Bill Landis
So the middle. Yeah, yeah. Good player. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the middle of the field could be a little, little soft maybe in this game.
- [41:43]
Doug Lesmerises
I do think there will be times. I mean, you watch some games and it sort of feels like every time Ohio State throws the ball to Jeremiah Smith, he's open. I think there will be a couple times on this where it's like, oh, they're throwing an out to Jeremiah Smith and the long physical corner was right on top of him and knocked it down. Right. And then the next time Jeremiah Smith beat him on a post for 38 yards. Right like that. I, but I do think, I do think Ohio State fans, when you have big physical corners like this, I think you have to be prepared for a couple times where I'm third and six. Julian saying tried to get it to Jeremiah Smith and the guy knocked it, knocked it away. Right, that, that'll happen a time or two, but it doesn't. I. To your point, this is not even like, you know, a couple years ago the game at Notre Dame when Ben Morrison as a, at that time people thought he was a first round corner. Then he got hurt, I think wound up being a second round corner. But he managed to kind of like sort of take Marvin Harrison Jr. Out of the game for most of the game. And, and it was like we knew that matchup going in and then Ben Morrison was like, holy moly. Like this isn't that right? As good as Davis and Price might be, this isn't that Ben Morrison at that time people thought was being talked about as good as any corner in the country.
- [42:55]
Bill Landis
Yeah, no, this is, this is not, not quite that good corners. Like, you know, at the end of the year when you're ranking the best corners at Ohio State, his face like those guys. Both these guys will probably be like in the top eight or something like that. But yeah, but yeah, not, not quite to that level.
- [43:11]
Doug Lesmerises
Okay. Anything else with this side of the ball?
- [43:14]
Bill Landis
One last thing because I know people probably still have red zone on the mind I think I might have mentioned. I think I mentioned this on Monday, but I'll just repeat it. Washington's opponents have scored points on all eight red zone trips this year with six touchdowns. It is just like it's defense that does not bow up once it gets inside the 20.
- [43:35]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right. You ready to flip it?
- [43:41]
Bill Landis
Yep.
- [43:46]
Doug Lesmerises
So I will say after talking about these guys all week and then going back and watching every single offensive play for Washington in the Colorado State opener and Washington State last week, my conclusion, I'll start with my conclusion is that DeMond Williams Jr. At quarterback, Jonah Coleman at running back, and Denzel Boston at receiver are even better than you think they are. Everything we have said already is true. Plus, yeah, these, they're great.
- [44:18]
Bill Landis
They are. Do you agree with me? I wrote, I wrote this earlier in the week and part of it's because of how poorly Arch Manning did play and has continued to play. This is the best quarterback receiver in running back Ohio State will face this year in the regular season.
- [44:31]
Doug Lesmerises
At least I think that's right. And because I think, I think you could, I think right now, and I've seen some NFL draft people saying, like Denzel Boston, their receiver is in contention to be the first receiver off the board in the 2026 NFL Draft. It's only because Jeremiah Smith won't be eligible for that draft yet. But in what we're talking about, who's the second best receiver in the Big Ten, Denzel Boston is certainly in the conversation. That's what some NFL draft people are saying. They're saying he's the best receiver in the country that's going to be draft eligible, which means, like, he might be the best, the second best receiver. So he's. So that's not Jeremiah Smith, that's not Ryan Williams at Alabama, but like, that's how good Denzel Boston is. So keep that in mind. Like, you just go through the numbers on Jonah Coleman as a running back and you can start talking yourself into some things with yards per carry and yards after contact. And I know the Penn State running backs are really good. Makai Hughes at Oregon that I think I picked second in the preseason Big Ten offensive player of the year vote has barely even played as a transfer from Tulane. It's one of the weirder stories of the Big Ten so far. The Big Ten always has some good running backs. I think Jonah Coleman's the best running back in the Big Ten.
- [45:44]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I, I mean, Justice Haynes at Michigan is playing really well, but he's like, not down to down efficient. He'll just go like 2 yards, 2 yards, 90 yards. Coleman is efficient and like just breaks a ton of tackles.
- [45:57]
Doug Lesmerises
Tackle breaker and breakaway speed, inside and outside. He'll bounce or he'll stay inside and go put his foot down and go straight ahead and break tackles.
- [46:06]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [46:07]
Doug Lesmerises
So I think Denzel Boston's the second best receiver in the Big Ten. I think Jonah Coleman's the best running back in the Big Ten. And Demond Williams is a nut man. Called runs, scrambles, deep shots. Stand in the pocket and rip a throw over the middle and he does not turn it over. So that's it. That's all I got. No, let's. I want to talk about the offensive line though, because it does really start with the offensive line. And that was really the story of Washington last year was their offensive line. Would you say last year their offensive line was. What's the word I'm looking for? Awful.
- [46:45]
Bill Landis
Yeah. They stunk. Yeah.
- [46:47]
Doug Lesmerises
So to their credit, they went about rebuilding it. They have two of five starters back on the offensive line and I think both of them are improved. They. And then they brought. They have like, they filled things in other ways. Two transfers and a true freshman. So Carter Willis is a left tackle. He's a transfer from Kansas State. He was the right tackle of Kansas State last year. He's the left tackle. The left guard is John Mills, who's a true freshman who won the job. Tacky finale is in the mix. He's. They rotate those guys a little bit. It's kind of like what Ohio State does on occasion with Tiger Shabola and Ethan Onianwa. But Finow is a red shirt freshman. Mills is a true freshman. So that's your. Your guys at left guard. The center's Landon Hatchet, who was played center and guard last year, but I think was kind of hurt most of the year and like that affected his production. The right guard is his brother Gary and Hatchet, who was at Washington, actually made a couple starts in 2023 when they made it to the national championship game, transferred to Oklahoma last year, won a job there and got hurt right away and basically didn't play and then came back. So he's the right guard and then the right tackle is Drew as a party, who was a transfer last year and was kind of like their best transfer on the offensive line last year and just got caught up in the chaos and the muck of that whole line and did not grade out well. But I actually think it's a pretty decently talented offensive lineman. So I think they have five real dudes, Landis. Right. That I think. I think they have five real guys. And I think down to down with them, you can see them getting a push in the run game. They don't. They don't collapse on every passing down, but they also have like five or six breakdowns a game. This is not a great offensive line. It's a much better offensive line. But for instance, like the first snap of the season, basically, right. Am I thinking about this? Is it. Was it the Washington. There was a play where the left tackle got beat inside on the very first snap. And it was either the open or last week against Washington State and Demon Williams. Demon Williams got sacked on the first.
- [48:46]
Bill Landis
It was the first. It was the first play in the Apple Cup. It was car. Carver Willis got destroyed.
- [48:53]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah, got destroyed on an inside move. And it's like, hey, Carver Willis, we brought it from Kansas State. He's hit a bit. And the first play he just destroyed on a simple inside movement. It's like, what are we doing here? So they do have. And then you'll just see. It's like, oh, okay, here was this. And the guy was supposed to reach to get to a guy and he didn't get to him. And then Demon Williams Jr got sacked and like, oh, here's what we did here that, you know, a tight end was supposed to come around and block this guy and he missed him. And Jonah Coleman got tackled for loss of four. They do have individual breakdowns more often, I think, than a truly good offensive line would have. But they're not getting overwhelmed. You saw Illinois's offensive line get overwhelmed by Indiana last week. That might be what's ahead for the Illinois offensive line against Ohio State in a couple of weeks. The Washington offensive line does not get overwhelmed. I think they have five guys who can compete. Devon Williams Jr also saves them a lot. If their pass protection breaks down, it might turn into a 17 yard gain anyway. But anyway, if there's anybody like, if you think like, oh, the Washington offensive line stinks. That was true last year. It's not true this year. But also, don't overrate them.
- [49:57]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think it's probably like a Big Ten average offensive line, but that would represent a market improvement over. Over what they were last year. I'm looking to see like what they did. So like even like last season against like Weber State in their opener, they had a terrible pass blocking grade. It was better against Eastern Michigan. Pretty good against Washington State and just sort of like got progressively worse throughout Big Ten play. So it is an improved offensive line. I don't think it's a great offensive line. They have not seen anything close to like the athleticism they're going to see from Ohio State's defensive line on Saturday. So I'm a little wait and see with like just how improved they are. But I think whatever the answer to that question is, it's. The answer is still they're better than they were last year.
- [50:46]
Doug Lesmerises
You know, we got to see Ohio State defensive lineman win. Right? Okay, so then, I mean, some are.
- [50:53]
Bill Landis
Like Katie McDonald and Kaden Curry are playing great. The rest of the group and Will Smith actually is playing really well. But the rest of the group needs to step it up.
- [50:59]
Doug Lesmerises
So it's like a fair. Carter Willis is there to be beaten inside and somebody go beat him. Right. Like, you need to see that a little bit. They also, they've given up a couple sacks. They gave up a sack on a. I'm like a blitz and the guy came around on a stunt and just like came through and nobody picked him up. I think they're capable of breaking down a little bit again. There's a true freshman in there. So I'll be curious the kind of things to see what Patricia. Matt. Patricia dials up to. Maybe try to give them different looks and make them try to figure out who they're supposed to block from play to play.
- [51:29]
Bill Landis
I would, I would like to place a bet now that on the first passing down, Arvell Reese is lined up over that freshman guard.
- [51:36]
Doug Lesmerises
Oh yeah.
- [51:37]
Bill Landis
I think Arville Reese was picking up and dumping Texas interior offensive lineman.
- [51:41]
Doug Lesmerises
That guy's a pretty good player, but he's. There's just stuff he hasn't seen yet. So I think, you know, there's gonna be so one of those things, right? Like you bring Arvell Reese on a blitz and then bring Sonny Styles right behind him in the same hole. And it's like they're not gonna pick that up. They're gonna, they're gonna Destroy Demon Williams Jr now the question is, once you get in the backfield, are you going to tackle the bottle? Because I can also run down the list of. He had a play where two guys got in the backfield and he spun away and turned his back to the line of scrimmage and threw what wound up being a 48 yard completion to Jonah Coleman because he spun away. Jonah Coleman was wide open. And then Jonah Coleman broke a tackle in the open field. It's like, that's a nice 48 yard play. So you can run through the Washington highlights where. Which is what happens with quarterbacks like this, where their line gets beat. It should be a sack, but instead of it being a negative play, it's a. It's a big play for the offense. It's a plus 20. So that, like, definitely will happen. I am super interested in. And obviously we can talk more about the model Williams Jr. But Bill, like, I think there's been some good rush integrity from Ohio State and that I even think has been their design. More than pin your ears back and just get after people. You have to rush Demon Williams that way because you have seen. Especially if you want to blitz from the edge. It's silly to blitz from the edge. He is really good. He will recognize a blitz and escape up the middle. He will recognize a blitz and run to the opposite side, side and outrun people. And there's something else I want to talk about in a minute, but like, pass rush integrity, I think is more important than, oh, we had two and a half sacks on demand Williams, because you might have. You might Sack Demon Williams Jr. Three times. But if you're just pinning your ears back, you also might give up five huge plays. And I think Washington would take that trade off. As we said before.
- [53:30]
Bill Landis
Yeah. Cage the pocket, I think. I think because he's only. He's listed at 5 11, I actually think that's generous. We saw him at Big Ten media days. He might be more like 5, 9. It's like a Bryce. It's like a Bryce Young situation, but he's incredibly slippery. But I think if you can push the pocket, maintain your integrity. You're talking about. I don't know how well he can like, see over that. How well he can, yeah. Actually move within the pocket to find. To find throwing lanes. He wants to get out, I think, when. When those moments occur. So it's going to be. I think like the interior rush is going to be pretty important in this game. Whether that's like, we saw Kaden Curry line up inside a little bit against Ohio and that worked out pretty well. Arvell Reese obviously has done a. Katie McDonald's played well. I think Ohio State is still looking. Looking for like, the light bulb to turn on for Edric Houston. Right. Like, this would be a heck of a moment, I think, for. For that to happen. And then there's always that the spy element too, what you do with that. But yeah, if they just. If they're just like rushing off field all Demod Williams Jr. Is going to do is plant his Back foot and run up the middle. So they have to. And like, Ohio State has been pretty good about that the last couple of years, like, not letting that happen. But this may be the. The most difficult challenge they faced against a quarterback. And who can do that in the.
- [54:41]
Doug Lesmerises
Last few years, Watching Colorado State and Washington State, I did not feel like they were spying him very much, and.
- [54:48]
Bill Landis
Washington State was not. I was like, watching. I was like, where's the spy?
- [54:52]
Doug Lesmerises
And, you know, there was a time so. So there. There are moments where. So he'll go. So he's not one read and go like, hey, first guy's not open, I'm gonna take off. But he'll be one read, two read, go. He will also be one read. I'm recognizing that there's a huge hole in the middle of the defense, and I'm just gonna take it. He will be. I recognize that you're playing, man, and everybody in the secondary has their back to me, and I'm gonna go and take that. He will be. I recognize the pressure's coming from this side. I'm gonna escape to the other side. I could not believe the opportunities that both Colorado State and Washington State would create where they're almost. Sometimes when you're playing a quarterback like that, if you don't rush with integrity and you don't spy him by pressuring him, you are pressuring him into success. And I thought both those defenses did that sometimes. I think Ohio State will ha. Must and will spy him on every third and long, maybe every second and long. And there's some combination of. And I think, honestly. But, you know, R.L. reese probably up first for that job. But between R.L. reese, Sonny Styles and Caleb Downs, I think you might have the three. Three of the best spy candidates in terms of athletic ability, football intelligence, and tracking guys like this down and being able to run with them that you could ask for. But they're also going to have to do it. And I think they'll do it every play. Every play that matters.
- [56:24]
Bill Landis
I think most passing downs, you'll see it. And I don't think Ohio State will blitz a lot in this game, but I do think you'll see a lot of crowded lines of scrimmage, right? And then it'll be on the offensive line and demand Williams to determine, like, who's rushing, who's dropping, who's spying. And to your point, I do. I do think it could be any. I think it could be any. Any one of the three of. Of Reese Styles or downs. I don't know if Patricia will. My Patricia will do this. There were times last year where Jim Knowles would, like, use a defensive lineman to spy. I don't know if that's the right course of action against a guy like the Mon Williams, but you have three pretty good candidates there. And yeah, I just, I just don't think Ohio State's going to get in the obvious passing situations and leave itself without a security blanket against the scramble. Not, not to say that those guys will always catch them on Williams, but yeah, at least give yourself a chance because, because as you mentioned, like, I was just watching Washington State thinking, like, why are they not. Maybe they felt like they had nobody who was athletic enough to do it, so why, why take a body away? But yeah, there were plenty of opportunities where it felt like they should and they didn't.
- [57:23]
Doug Lesmerises
I thought there was a play where like on a third and four, they dropped the defensive lineman and tried to kind of use him at a spy as a spy and then Demond Williams Jr just outran him anyway and got a first down that. I guess that's the thing, like you said, if our spy can't catch him, then what's the point? Yeah, it's like, I mean, that's like, that's just covert operations. It's like, oh, who's, who's the spy who's in charge of catching the, the, the German spy during World War II? It's Doug. It's like, oh, Doug is not going to catch that spy. It's like, well, then why would we have Doug be a spy so like that if, if you don't have anybody, you can do it, I guess. Don't do it by. PFF. Deman Williams Jr. Has been blitzed on 48 drop backs and not blitzed on 43. He has then been sacked four times when he's blitzed, two times when he's not split, he scrambled eight times. When he's blitzed, he scrambled twice when he's not blitzed again. It's just a. You can blitz him into a 27 yard run if you're not careful. So you have. But they're also. So it has to be. But he also. So he's been sacked six times. Let's let may as well move into the Demon Williams Jr. Conversation off this offensive line conversation. We're 2/3 of the way down in any way. So he's been sacked six times. By my count. Those sacks were, I would call them two coverage holding the ball sacks where it's just like, okay, and one of them, he realized it was happening and tried to get out. At the last second, he was too late and he got tripped up. So that's two of them. One of them is the Carver. Willis just got smoked and he didn't have a chance. One of them was a corner blitz from the blind side that he kind of didn't see coming and didn't feel, and he just got sacked. It's like a good call, and it's maybe on him to feel that a little bit. But also, nobody at Washington picked anything up. And then one of them was a blitz where the blitz definitely influenced it. But also within that Carver Willis also got beat again. And then I think actually like the sixth sack, I actually, like. I don't In. In re watching it because he didn't get sacked against UC Davis. I think it was actually more of a called run that he got tackled, like for a loss of one that I might have gone down to the books as a sack. So I only have two of the six sacks, so. Six sacks. So we got none of the FCS game. He's been stacked six times in the two FBS games. That's kind of a lot. Only two of them, I would say, are on him. So what do you think of that information that I just provided?
- [59:46]
Bill Landis
I can't imagine any of the defenses he played were offering coverages that gave him pause. So.
- [59:52]
Doug Lesmerises
And he still held it a couple times.
- [59:54]
Bill Landis
And he still held it a couple times. So that was like. That was the thing with Arch Manning, right? Like, he dropped back and he had no idea what he was looking at. Will demand Williams, who has more experience now than archbanning did in the first game, but, like, came into the season with, like, basically the same amount of experience. See things better or not? I don't know. And then also like, in. In seeing things because the other thing that jumps out to me about Washington's offense is just. Just how much the ball goes to Denzel Boston. If he drops back and Boston's not open, then what happens?
- [60:35]
Doug Lesmerises
So. So we'll. We'll get to that in a second. I. I don't think he's going to have Arch brain freeze the way. The way Arch did against Matt Patricia, especially in the first half, because then Steve Sarkeesian, the Texas coach, was talking about, they ran Art. They didn't run Arch in the first half. They let Arch run a little bit in the second half, and they thought that opened Arch up a little bit. And then you saw Texas drive in the second half. They didn't score. But they drove to the goal line. They drove another time inside the 20, didn't score. Demond Williams Jr. Is going to run the whole time. So I think like that's going to get him into the game and I don't think he's going to brain freeze because I think he'll go one read to read. If it's not there, he'll go where I think like arch like was like one read, two read like, like you said, I don't even know what I'm looking at. So I don't think he's gonna fall into that. The ideal situation for Ohio State is one read. Denzel Boston, he's not there to read. And we'll get into the rest of the skill guys. There almost isn't a second guy to go to. It's Jonah Coleman out of the backfield. That's not there or I don't want it. And then here I go. And then the moment he goes, Orville Reese or Sonny Styles is waiting for him. If that's what you see a lot. Bang, bang, go, there's Arvell, bang, bang, go, there's Caleb. Then Ohio State is going to win by three touchdowns and that could happen, right?
- [61:57]
Bill Landis
Yeah. I just like the, the, the speed of the Ohio State defense is, is. It's not even worth comparing to what Washington has, has seen so far. It's like, so I just don't know. I know people. Actually Ohio State's pass rush numbers without blitzing are quite good. They're like the pressure rate, they're third in the country. I don't know that you'll have that much time. Right? Like. Yeah, how, how often do you see any quarterback go 1, 2, 3 against Ohio State's defense?
- [62:24]
Doug Lesmerises
Right?
- [62:24]
Bill Landis
Even very good ones with good skill guys and good offensive lines. So, so is, so which it makes me wonder like, is it going to be like one and go and then what's that look like? Or if it, if he is trying to go like 1, 2. Let me get out once he makes that third decision. Yeah. Where's Arvella Reese? Where's Kaden Curry? Where's Kaden McDonald? Because the answer could be like in his lap.
- [62:43]
Doug Lesmerises
Right? So I do think. I, I don't. I'm curious how much we'll see Ohio State defensive lineman win right away. I do think there's a chance, especially on third down with some of the looks that Matt Patricia's bringing with the three man front and then dropping Styles and Reese in those gaps and bringing one dropping Another I do think this offensive line has a chance to get confused. That I think is where the greater opportunity is to have them, not who's supposed to have who. Wait, oh, now all of a sudden somebody got through unblocked. I think, I think that's how they're going to get to The Mon. Williams Jr. More than we just destroyed a, destroyed a guy in a one on one matchup. So now the other part of this is so yes, they've he's taken six sacks in two games against FBS opponents but they have a lot of third down erasers and what's happening because again this is a team that is punted twice in three games. The sacks aren't hurting them, negative plays aren't hurting them. Because they have the best third down team in the country. They are converting 75% of their third downs. That's first in the country. And inside those numbers on third and nine or, or longer they're five of eight and you just have these instances where they get in third and 12, they get in third and nine and he rips a throw to Denzel Boston because he can make a far hash throw like Justin Fields could, no problem. Or they're going to run him or they're gonna throw a screen. They threw a great screen on like a, they're like a third and nine where they threw a screen to the running back and scored like a 24 yard touchdown like they called it perfectly. And Demond Williams Jr stayed in with two guys in his face and hung in to take the hit and make the throw so the play had time to develop. So they'll. Jed Fish is a good third down play caller. Denzel Boston is an excellent third down option and then Demond Williams will destroy you scrambling if you bring pressure but don't keep contained. So that, that so they are the best third down team in the country. They're three of three on fourth downs which is like one of 20 teams in the country that's perfect on four on fourth downs. So that is like a gigantic thing. And they are also like really good in the red zone. So like situationally they're beating everybody now. They haven't seen anybody. But it is just a reminder of the thing that I find most interesting is just because you sack him on second and seven and now it's third and 12 doesn't mean the drive's over. And I think it's, it's. The stats will tell you that but also when you watch them you understand why.
- [65:26]
Bill Landis
Yeah, they're never they're never really out of it. So I, I noted this in a story I wrote. But also looking at some of the numbers here, like on third down, Demond Williams has 12 carries for 58 yards. Six of those 12 carries have been first downs or no.
- [65:40]
Doug Lesmerises
5.
- [65:40]
Bill Landis
Sorry, five of those 12 carries. My first downs, third down passing, he's the best in the country. He's nine of 10 for 256 yards and three touchdowns. Eight of his nine completions have gone for first downs. His passer rating on third down is 404.04.
- [65:55]
Doug Lesmerises
That's like 404 on a scale of zero to 100, right? Like that is. Yeah, he broke the scale. So they're a remarkable third down team. But you see the pieces and you understand why. So.
- [66:06]
Bill Landis
Yeah, and the rapport with Boston, like a third down, especially like that's where it feels like it shows up the most.
- [66:11]
Doug Lesmerises
It's real. It's absolutely real. While we're on demand, Williams Jr. Called runs, man. You know what they do pretty well? Short side run to the boundary, like that play that drives Ohio State fans nuts sometimes. He scored like a 25 yard touchdown in a game on a short side like third down run where they motioned an offensive lineman who took the linebacker and then Jonah Coleman threw an Ezekiel Elliott block on the safety and wiped him out. And Damon Williams Jr. Went untouched to the end zone. So they will, he will scramble, but he will also hurt you on called runs and they are not afraid to do either. And sometimes you see this with quarterbacks who can run where like an offense will be reluctant at times to use a guy like that in the called run game. And, and they are not reluctant. So it's been a pretty. If he's, I think so like his run stats are something like if there's six sacks, I think there's 17 scrambles and 11 called runs in three games. And on the called runs, he is quick to the edge, man.
- [67:20]
Bill Landis
Holy moly.
- [67:20]
Doug Lesmerises
He is quick to the edge. And the thing that both Matt Patricia and Ryan had talked about that, talking about that step that Kyla Murra, both Jonah Coleman as a running back and Daman Williams junior's quarterback in open space will make those one cut moves on a guy that are like, we'll break ankles. They're ankle breakers in space. Jonah Coleman will also run through tackles, but they are ankle breakers. So there's a lot of these Damon Williams juniors run where it's like, oh man, he's fast. That's a nice eight yard run. And it's like, oh no, he juked a guy at the second level and now it's a 17 yard run. So he is. And they are smart with the called runs. There's a lot of, there's a good. I, I don't know how much of an opinion you have on this. I, I feels like so Jed Fish, the head coach is the play caller. There's a nice variety to them. They're horizontal, they're vertical, they're inside, they're outside. They'll hit Coleman up the middle on a, you know, on a read play and then or Williams, okay, will keep it and hit the edge. Most of his runs are, most of the QB runs wind up being outside. He gets to the edge quick and turns it up field. Coleman will hit you inside and hurt you, but he can also bounce it. I think it's going to hurt Ohio State at times because I can understand like on the, on the third and seven with the spies that they have. I can, they might be able to live with the scramble yards a little bit. I think he's going to hurt him in the called run game at times and I think that was one of the worst things that Texas. One of the biggest Texas mistakes was they did not use Arch in the run game early and hurt him and yeah, absolutely.
- [68:47]
Bill Landis
Will Washington will. But I, and I don't disagree with anything you said. The good thing if I'm Ohio State about the Apple cup is that Washington put a lot on display in that game. Like Washington had to win and it was a close game like they could. Jet Fish lost the Apple cup last year. He couldn't afford to lose a second straight Apple Cup.
- [69:05]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah.
- [69:05]
Bill Landis
So I think like ideally Washington would not have shown all the quarterback run that it had to show in the Apple Cup. Before I played Ohio State there was a lot of variety to the design quarterback run that now Ohio State is aware of and can prepare for. Doesn't mean they're going to stop it, but they're not going to be caught off guard by it. So I think it's probably the biggest thing in this game because I don't know he can really throw it. Denzel Boston's great. I think Ohio State's corners are, are fine and those matchups like though I, I don't think Denzel Boston's gonna go out there like torch Ohio State's cornerbacks but the run quarterback run game is like the X factor. So yeah, I would imagine that's what my Patricia has spent a lot of his time on and I do think it is to Ohio State's benefit that Washington had to show those cards in the Apple Cup.
- [69:53]
Doug Lesmerises
I think there's a chance that Denzel Boston does torch Ohio State's corners. It is a big challenge for them. He is a big receiver. He makes great catches with his hands. He looks like Roma Dunes A from a couple years ago. He looks a little bit like Jeremiah Smith. He's not as good as Jeremiah Smith.
- [70:13]
Bill Landis
Nobody is easy, easy there with the comparison.
- [70:16]
Doug Lesmerises
No, I know, but it's like, but he's like, you know, like those big physical guys who get good position in a route and then make a hands catch on you.
- [70:24]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [70:25]
Doug Lesmerises
And it just look like, like it's that kind of thing. And he has, in the two games against the FBS competition, he has three touchdowns that are over smaller corners in hands catches in the end zone. The two against Washington State is just like basically I'm plucking it over you. And against Colorado State he got interfered with on the play. They threw the flag for pass interference and he kind of made like a one handed catch against the guy. Anyway, the three corners that he beat, two of them were 511 and one was 6ft tall. So Jermaine Matthews was asked about this on, on Wednesday night. He's like, yeah, I know he's big. Like we're not worried about that. And certainly Denzel Ward is not a super tall receiver. He might be the best corner. Super tall. I, I actually mean Denzel Ward. I don't mean Denzel Boston. Denzel Ward, former Ohio State star, might be the best cornerback in the NFL. He's not huge. If you play great technique and you stay with the guy and you're physical, it doesn't matter if you're, if the guy's 4 inches taller than you. But I think they will try that. Now Igbignosin, we've talked about this. We don't think he's gonna follow Denzel Boston, right?
- [71:28]
Bill Landis
No, I don't think so.
- [71:29]
Doug Lesmerises
No. So like I'll be curious. I think they'll try to get maybe incorrectly. I think they'll try to get Boston on Jermaine Matthews when they can. 90 of his snaps are outside. Only 10 in the slot. They do, they'll motion him a little bit. They had a data one of his touchdowns. They kind of like ran him in motion and then like ran him right at a safety and, and Williams hit him down the field for a nice play. The like the second play of the season against Colorado State. Dejuan Williams, they Ran him right down the field at a corner and Demond Williams Jr. Put it in his bread basket and he dropped it. So, like they are, they have tried eight throws of 20 yards or more to Denzel Boston this year. For instance, Jeremiah Smith on those is 3 of 3, 20 yards or more. Denzel Boston is 3 of 8, but they've tried a lot. And when you look at Denzel Boston down the field, his average depth of target is 17.9 yards. That's about as good as any major guy in the Power 4. Just as a comparison, 15 of Jeremiah Smith's 26 targets have been for 9 yards or fewer. So only 11 of Jeremiah Smith's targets, 11 of 26 have been 10 yards or more. 18 of 23 for Denzel Boston have been 10 yards or more. And 8 of those have been 20 yards or more. They use him down the field. They do. They attack with him. Now they attack with nobody else. They literally don't have anybody else. Their second best receiver got hurt. As Christian Capel said, they have a couple true freshmen that they don't throw the ball to. They have an okay tight end decker to graph that they'll throw to once or twice a game. The second guy in their passing attack is. Is Jonah Coleman. Screens to him, check downs to him, swing passes to him. They lean on Denzel Boston as the thing about this, again, coming away that like, you watch those three guys and their three guys are even better than you realize. Their three guys also have the ball in their hand 85 of the time on offense. And the other guy, we'll get to him in a second is Adam Muhammad, who's their backup running back who's also really good. They don't mess around with their second and third receivers. They don't even bother. They might run a jet sweep to them. They'll run a couple bubble screens, everything down. I don't even think they get a try. Landis. I think Denzel Boston is going to have like 13 targets in this game. They know where their bread is buttered.
- [73:41]
Bill Landis
Yeah. The one thing I'm curious to see is. So they got Omari Evans back last week, transfer from Penn State. He wasn't very good at Penn State, but when he did pop, it was like he was down the field, deep shot kind of guy. He had a long touchdown in the apple cup. It was a broken play. He was wide open. And Washington was already up by like four touchdowns at the time that he caught it.
- [73:59]
Doug Lesmerises
So, like they were rubbing it in.
- [74:00]
Bill Landis
Yeah, yeah, they were rubbing in Rubbing it in. So I don't, I don't know what to expect from him, but he's probably better than the other guys. They've been trotting out there like it's been freshman, freshman receivers along with Boston. So maybe he gets more of a workload in this game. We'll see. But yeah, it's going to be all. It's all Boston. He'll get whatever. Yeah, whatever amount. I think he. What was it? He's third in the Power 4. Boston is in target share in his offense behind Jordan Tyson at Arizona State and Jeremiah Smith at Ohio State. But there's no like Carnell Tate hanging out with them like Jeremiah Smith has. Yeah, right.
- [74:41]
Doug Lesmerises
So. And then Jonah Coleman reminds me of J.K. dobbins. He's like, has a burst, but he's a little bit of a bowling ball. Low to the ground, hard to tackle. Great yards after contract. After contact. It's 5.12 this year. Yards after contact. It's early, lower caliber of defense. Last year, Ashton Genti led the power four in yards after contact. Well, he's not the power four. LED FBs and yards after contact with 5.25. Coleman's right now at 5.12. Trayvon Henderson last year was 4.43. And again, just by comparison, James People's 2.76. C.J. donaldson 3.06. He's gonna break tackles. Good contact balance. We'll take a hit. If you tackle him on the side, he's gonna bounce off. Like if you're. It's like one of those, he's running wide and guys come in from the side and like put their shoulder in his knee. He doesn't go down. He bounces off of that and keeps going, keeps his feet moving. Really physical. I think he had a Career High like 166 against Colorado State in the opener. Like 23 carries. They'll lean on him. But Adam Muhammad, who I remember them like talking spring that they really liked, big physical guy, looks something like Carlos Hyde. And they will put him in like if they just mix him in when, when Coleman needs a break. But physical runner, good back, like a good number two back. Definitely their third best skill guy is their backup running back. No doubt about it.
- [75:59]
Bill Landis
Yeah, he's like, he's more like an upright runner. He's got to be like. I would imagine he's six feet tall, but yeah, he was pretty impressive in the Apple Cup. Now that was a worn down defense, but yeah, I'd agree with you. He's their Third or third best skill guy. And like you worry about a lot when Coleman's in the game, like making sure you wrap up and all that stuff. But you have to be just as on it when Muhammad's in the game because he'll run through your arm. Tackles too.
- [76:21]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah. And then they call it pretty well first down plays, 64 runs, 42 drop backs. Like it's a decent mix play action. Deep shots. They'll move the pocket a little bit for Demon Williams. They'll get in a, get in a groove where they run it a couple times. They will go up tempo at times. Right. I think like the second drives of maybe both games I watched, they decided to go up tempo a little bit, try to push it a lot like Ryan Day. Get that first, first town, first, first down and then maybe try to see, keep the defense on the field. Don't let them sub. It's just very familiar, it's very familiar with how they want to play and that they, the guys, the three main guys with the ball in their hands are very skilled. So it is. And I wouldn't, I'm not gonna, it's just a, it's a lesser version of Ohio State, but like, it's a very effective version that will be familiar to Ohio State fans. I think they're going to move it. I do not think this is going to be. They're not going to score every time they touch the ball like they basically have so far this year. I think they're going to score a lot, though.
- [77:20]
Bill Landis
I, I don't know, like, I don't disagree with you on anything you said. Like, and I think by, at the end of the year, think about it, like, the three best offenses in the Big Ten are probably going to be Ohio State, USC and Washington in some order.
- [77:32]
Doug Lesmerises
Oregon in there somewhere.
- [77:33]
Bill Landis
Oregon, sorry. Yeah. Oregon too. Yeah. So it's out for Oregon. I, I, well, I don't know how much I feel like they're going to move it. It comes back to the speed thing. It's because they're so fast. The ISA defense is so fast.
- [77:48]
Doug Lesmerises
So, so you think if they can, you think they'll be able to hem in Williams or is it, you think they'll be able to cover Boston? What is it that you like, you think that they'll.
- [77:57]
Bill Landis
I think they're going to cover Boston. I don't think Boston's like going to go go nuts in this game.
- [78:01]
Doug Lesmerises
Okay.
- [78:01]
Bill Landis
And then it's just a matter of like. And I don't think Washington's offensive line is going to like, mow down Ohio State's defensive line. So it's going to be. When you get to Jonah Coleman, do you tackle them or not? And Ohio State is that. Oh, I say starter, like, if you feel like. Oh, I said overall tackling, great. It's not great, but it's. Starters have tackled pretty well for the most part. There aren't a lot of guys with multiple missed tackles who play the majority of the snaps. So that obviously will have to continue in this game. If they're a bad tackling team, they'll. They might very well may lose. So I don't know. I, I think, I don't think Washington's going to get shut out. Like, I think they're going to score some. They're going to score more than anyone else has scored on Ohio State so far this year. But I think Ohio State will get off the field more often than not. Like, I'm not, I'm not. I don't. I buy. By no stretch do I think it's going to be a shootout.
- [78:52]
Doug Lesmerises
Okay. I definitely, I could. I definitely expect moments where Ohio State's defense makes good plays on first and second down and on third down they make a good play and Washington gets a first down anyway, like that kind of thing that. Whether. And like a couple, a couple slippery little pay call play calls in there. You know, they've missed. I saw like two tight end wheel routes that they missed one on like an H. Back route, one on. They motioned the tight end and then wheeled him like in like both in the red zone that I was like, okay, like, just like that kind of stuff. I think Jed Fish is a pretty good play caller.
- [79:25]
Bill Landis
He's a good, really good designer. Yeah. Really good.
- [79:27]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah. So I think he'll try to get matchups, but I do think just against any team like this, this is really a second level of the, of the defense game, I think, because it's, it's about, it's about handling Damon Williams Jr. And Jonah Coleman in space. And if that's the case, I don't, I honestly, I don't know who I would want doing it more than Arvell Reese, Sunny Styles and Caleb Downs. Like they are.
- [79:52]
Bill Landis
It's the, it's the best second level in college football.
- [79:54]
Doug Lesmerises
Right.
- [79:55]
Bill Landis
I don't, I don't know that it's.
- [79:56]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah, I don't know that it's close. Like, there's three erasers. Three erasers at that level and yeah, maybe Denzel Boston will get behind somebody at some point and yeah, maybe like Washington's offensive line will get enough of a push for Jonah Coleman, break some tackles, be able to run the ball. But what they've done is every time they've gotten behind the sticks, they have guys who, who erase that. So Jonah Coleman, Denzel Boston and Demond Williams erase every mistake that offense makes. But I think Ohio State has erasers who can erase the Washington Erasers. So like it's that idea. I do think Boston's going to have a good game. I'm not a thousand percent locked in on like Denzel on Davidson ignosin taking him away. I, I'm curious to see if when he's matched up against the, the Ohio State corners who aren't quite as big, how much that will matter. He's just not going to be in the slot that much. It's mostly going to be him against Matthews and Igbignosan and I think he's excellent. I really, I thought it before, but I think it even more now. I do think he's going to have a pretty decent game, but I, but I do believe in the I. What I believe in the most is Ohio State's ability to not let Washington dominate on third down because they have enough guys who can track people down.
- [81:20]
Bill Landis
Yeah. And the third down packages schematically have been pretty diverse and confusing. So that'll come into play. I'm more, I'm more worried about like Davis and Igbos and having a boxing match with Denzel Boston down, down, down the field and who gets called for the penalty that I am Boston maybe having like 150 yards and two touchdowns or something like that.
- [81:45]
Doug Lesmerises
Okay. Just a little bit on special teams. Pretty even. Grady Gross for Washington is two of two unfield goals this year, including a 51 yarder for his career. He's 76. Jaden Fielding for his career is 80. So that's pretty much a coin toss. But you do think field position matters here, right?
- [82:04]
Bill Landis
Yeah. Ohio State's field position this year has sucked. Ohio State, I have it here. So net field position. Ohio State is 126th in the country. Offensive starting field position. Ohio State is 132nd in the country. There are 135 FBS teams. Washington is 14th in Netfield position. A lot of those bad numbers are the Texas game. So Ohio state has started 11 of its 33 drives inside its own 20 yard line and, and five of those inside the 10. All five were against Texas. So the, the field position actually against Grambling wasn't great either. But yeah, it's like, I don't know, there's like wonkiness with the punt return game. Right. Like they've, they've a lot of lost a lot of yardage and punt return. I think the Texas game was just like kind of a bad field position game for both teams because of the way it was played. So I don't know that I consider it an edge necessarily for anybody. But like you don't want to be in this environment routinely starting drives inside your own 15 yard line. If you're Ohio State.
- [83:13]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah. Okay. I will say the second half against Texas, Ohio State forced four punts from Texas in the first half. Second half, 70 yard drive for Texas stopped on downs. The next drive was the Jermaine Matthews interception. Next drive, 13 plays, 76 yards stopped on downs. Then a four play, 60 yard touchdown drive. Then a six play, 38 yard drive stopped on downs to end the game. Like they didn't. Texas moved the ball in the second half once they figured out Ohio State a little bit and once Arch stopped being scared and they started running him a little bit. So yeah, that's a little bit of what. But like I think Washington will move the ball and it's based primarily on that because I think, I think the Texas offense was just like shell shocked in the first half to Ohio State's credit. But Washington at home Demond Williams Jr. With a little more experience. Jed Fish knowing what's up, I don't think the Washington offense is going to be shell shocked. Even though they haven't played anybody yet. Do you think they could be shell shocked?
- [84:19]
Bill Landis
No, I don't think they're going to be shell shocked. The one, the one thing about that, that the Texas game is so like this is I guess getting like a little bit in the weeds. But like these five man fronts, right, that Ohio State is going to play the Washington plays. If you're gonna just try to like run inside zone against those the whole time, it's tough because there's no double teams. Texas, which I, aside from the Ohio State game has been more of a zone rushing team, was like all gap scheme against Ohio State. They just like ran counter, ran counter around counter, run counter and like ran it pretty well. Washington is heavy, heavy zone team. Like 80% of Jonah Coleman's rushes are zone runs. They do run some counter, but not a lot. Not as much as Texas, not as much as Ohio State. So like the, the, the schematic answer to teams that want to play their front that way, Ohio State does it regularly Washington does not do it that much. So like they would have to deviate from what they do normally, I think to run the ball unless they just blow them off the ball. But I don't think that's going to happen. So like, yes, Arch found his footing a little bit and hit a couple nice shots. I think more of Texas moving the ball the way it did was their run game against what Ohio State was doing schematically. And Ohio State I think was like willing to trade that off for certain things. I don't know that Washington schematically will get into the same stuff that Texas did. Maybe they will and I'm wrong. But like, I'm curious to see how Washington chooses to run the ball against Ohio State given how Matt Patricia has been deploying Ohio State's fronts.
- [85:51]
Doug Lesmerises
Did you see that? Ran a nice little play on like, I guess it was a counter red zone. They had Jonah Coleman in the slot and actually like motioned him across and handed it off.
- [86:00]
Bill Landis
Yeah, Bash Urban Meyer's like favorite play. You block, you block an inside run for the quarterback and the out, you, you flip the roles of the quarterback and the running back in his own reach.
- [86:12]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah, it's good. Okay, so this again is about an eight point line. As we are speaking. The over under is 52 and a half. Bill Landis, what is your pick for this game?
- [86:28]
Bill Landis
I'm picking Ohio State close, so I'm picking Washington to cover 28, 24. I think it's a low, I think it's a low possession game. I think both teams are going to play slow because neither one of them wants the other team's offense on the field that much. I think drives will stall. I think they will punt more than they want to. Like I think both these offenses are good and going to be good. I don't know that it's going to be offensive fireworks in this game and Ohio State, honestly, in like every big game Ohio State has played the last year and a half has been low scoring even against good offenses. So. And whatever as it's 28, 24, low scoring, I'm not sure but that's about like the implied. The implied score is what, like 27 to 20? Like it's not. Yeah. So like I'm in that neighborhood. 28, 24 Ohio State. Yeah.
- [87:18]
Doug Lesmerises
So the over under is 52 and a half. So you're a half point on the under.
- [87:21]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [87:23]
Doug Lesmerises
So this is one of those. I feel, I feel like you and I are a little bit on opposite sides of game script. But my score Is not that different. I'm going to pick Ohio State. 38, 28. So I'm talking about, like, I think Washington's offense is going to score. And you're talking about, like, I don't know if they're going to score that much. And our score for Washington is four points different. Yeah, I can't pick. I can't pick Washington to score 40, you know, like, that's. I don't. I don't think this is a 45, 42 kind of thing.
- [87:55]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think you're right that if someone does get in that neighborhood, it's Ohio State.
- [88:01]
Doug Lesmerises
I just think that. But the Washington defense really might, especially if Davis doesn't play, really could be in trouble. But I do think the Washington offense is going to put some pressure on Ohio State. And so I think Washington's greatest chance is early lead crowd. Julian saying, feeling like he has to make some plays to play catch up. And he knows what to do. Right? So, like, even the pick he threw in the end zone, he's like, he knows he's late on that out. Right? So. But, like, he knows what to do. But if he looks at Jeremiah Smith on a play, if he's down 10, 3 in the second quarter, he looks at Jeremiah Smith and it's covered. And he comes back to the second Reading as Carnell Tate, and he hesitates slightly, and he knows once he hesitates, he knows I shouldn't throw it, but he throws it anyway. And now you jump the route. That's a pick six. And now it's 17 to three. Like, that's the Washington chance. To me, that it's a game where it's like. Like both offenses are moving the ball, but Washington. I mean, I would be surprised if Washington, like, takes the ball first in a situation like this, if they can. Right. Take the ball at home and try to go down and score and get a lead. And all of a sudden, like, Washington's a little bit ahead in that game. And then it's not necessarily that Washington's defense is great. It's that the circumstance and the crowd and the pressure of trying to keep up makes Ohio State make a mistake. And now Washington's up two scores at home. And now what that, I think is the scenario for Washington to compete and win. We're not picking Washington to win. Do you think Washington could win?
- [89:38]
Bill Landis
Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I don't. I don't. I don't think this. The spread is, like, weird at all. Yeah.
- [89:44]
Doug Lesmerises
Okay. What. Actually, I think we maybe almost would have Anticipated more is the spread stays at 14, and then the two of us, as guys who have been watching, not just Ohio State, but all of Northern football for the last two years, come on here and say, oh, people, let us tell you, this should not be a 14 point spread. Washington is better than you realize. And instead we didn't get to do that because everybody knows it because they played three games and everybody's seen it. There's no secrets about Washington right now.
- [90:12]
Bill Landis
No, I don't think so. I do. I think. I don't know that it's like 100 requirement that Washington would need like a defensive and or special teams touchdown to actually win the game. But that's the scenario I have in my head. It's like maybe Julian saying makes a missed early mistake or two and you look up in the fourth quarter and Ohio State's got a chance to go down and win it, and they. Maybe they don't because they gave away a possession or two early in the game. Yeah. Yeah.
- [90:39]
Doug Lesmerises
Although. What. Will Howard threw a pick six against Penn State, right?
- [90:44]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [90:44]
Doug Lesmerises
And they. Ohio State got down and holding, then they just came back and won last year. So it's like, okay, but, but like, I do.
- [90:51]
Bill Landis
But that was will Howard's like, 36th start.
- [90:55]
Doug Lesmerises
Right. And again, this is just one of those, you know, if this goes a little bit like, like you said late in the game, CJ Stroud's second career start against Oregon, that was at home where he threw for like 400 yards. But when they got the ball at the end with a chance to win, like, they couldn't quite get over the top at that point. Right. That. And I think everybody's just hearing from our Substack subscribers and that kind of thing. I don't think there's anybody in the Ohio State fan base underestimating Washington, so I don't know that. I hope we did not come with a. Hey, I hope you guys, they know. I think everybody knows how good some of that. Washington has a handful of excellent players.
- [91:34]
Bill Landis
Yeah. The pro. The problem is it's like, it's all. It's like one side of the ball, right? It's. It's imbalanced, balanced. So I don't, I have, I have not sensed a lot of worry of Ohio State, like, struggling to score as much as it needs to score to win this game. But the other side of the ball is fascinating, like, and the ISA's defense has been great, and I think it's very good. And I think we'll. We'll come away from this game thinking Ohio State's defense is very good, but there's a possibility that Jed Fish has something in his back pocket, some schematic advantage that maybe, I don't know, Ohio State could be slow to adapt to. Like even that Oregon game a couple years ago, right. It was that, that crack sweep that Ohio State never figured out. I got, I think Oregon got two or three touchdowns out of it. Right. So I don't think Matt Patricia will be slow to adapt to anything as Kerry Combs was in that game. But maybe there's something, whether it's something on the opening script for Washington's offense that gets them down there to get a touchdown or, or some kind of trickeration maybe. I think, I think Washington could try some of that knowing that it's a little outmanned talent wise. So, and, and, but even beyond that, like they're just like they have dangerous offensive pieces. So yeah, I think Washington will hang, but I think Ohio State will win.
- [92:45]
Doug Lesmerises
Okay, that's our big game breakdown for the Ohio State Buckeyes at the Washington Huskies. We would invite you to come back. We're going to do watch in a second. We would invite you to come and join us live during this game bill for a full watch along live on YouTube. Find the Bill and Doug show on YouTube. This will not, we're not going to put the three hour watch along after the fact on the podcast feeds because I don't know that that would be an entertaining no post game listen for the fine folks and we can't go live in a podcast feed. So we would invite you if you're listening to this on a podcast and you don't Normally watch on YouTube, come find us on the Bill and Doug show on YouTube and we'll be going live like the whole game. We'll just be sitting around and we're not gonna do play by play but we'll be analyzing this and I think it'll be good because again what we were doing before, we obviously know Ohio State inside and out but we have a pretty good handle on Washington too. And so I think we'll be able to in the moment. Well, you'll be able to break it down and I'll be able to make bad jokes and I hope we have a good time.
- [93:53]
Bill Landis
Yeah, we did it last year for the Penn State game. It was a lot of fun. So we'll play, we're going to do that for this game and then take a bit of a pause while the 7:30 games are happening and then come back after the 7:30 games and do like a live nighttime wrap up too. Yeah.
- [94:08]
Doug Lesmerises
And then that will get into your podcast feeds. The full like post game show wrap where we will cover Ohio State, Washington to some degree, but we'll cover Penn State, Oregon, we'll cover Alabama, Georgia, we'll cover Indiana, Iowa, we'll cover every important game, especially the Big Ten in northern ones. That happened. All right, we did. We normally do this on our Wednesday show, but we're doing it here on the Thursday show. It's what you're watching, what you eating, what you thinking, brought to you by your eyes, your stomach and your brain. Bill Landis, what are you watching?
- [94:38]
Bill Landis
Yeah, so this will all be tied into the, the travel I did last week and my brother got married in Connecticut, so I'm still not, I, I have to like bear down and like pick some new stuff to watch. So I don't have like a new show to talk about about. But we were driving back and this is I guess like quasi what you're listening to. But I just want to give a shout out to a guy that I think is doing a really good job in his profession driving back on Sunday, listening to the Eagles Rams game. Like I, I plug my, plug my phone into my Apple carplay and just like listen to the TV broadcast as opposed to listening to the radio broadcast. Joe Davis, the play by play guy for Fox NFL, he's like their number two guy now. He works with Greg Olson. He calls a game on television like you would call it on the radio. It's like very descriptive, much more descriptive than I think most television play by play guys are, which I don't even know that I would have noticed nor I don't think I really have ever noticed because watching it on tv, he calls decent amount of Eagles games. But I found myself very much appreciating as I was only listening to it as I drove because I don't know, like, like if I'm listening to a game of the radio, I don't know if I'm seeing people do this. Like you, you like conjure an image in your head, right? You're like sort of playing in your mind what this might look like if you're not able to see it. But you need more information from the play by play guy. And radio guys are great about that. But I thought Joe Davis and Greg Olson too, to his credit as the analyst, like, called a television broadcast in a way that made me feel like I was listening to a radio broadcast. And I thought it Was, like, kind of refreshing.
- [96:06]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah. Did they shout out. Did they say, we're doing this for all the Apple CarPlay people out there?
- [96:11]
Bill Landis
No, no, I think there is. To get Apple car, If you have CarPlay to, like, actually have the game on your screen. But that feels dangerous.
- [96:20]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah, yeah. You're gonna drive into a tree. Oh, for real? You think that's a real thing?
- [96:24]
Bill Landis
I. I know it's a real thing. I just thought there's, like, a. You have to buy a piece of technology that I think is kind of expensive to make it happen. And also, your car has to be, whatever. Updated to a certain model, I think. But it is. It is possible. Our Palari Wasman, you'll be not surprised at all, has posted several videos of himself, like, watching Heavyweights while he's driving.
- [96:47]
Doug Lesmerises
That's good to know. I'm not driving in the state of Texas now.
- [96:51]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [96:52]
Doug Lesmerises
Because I thought maybe I would not be against a rule in America that's like, we're not having any cars where you can play a TV show through your car. Like, I understand if you want to, like, bring in a separate screen and put it up there. Like, we can't stop you from doing that, but we are not allowing technology where the screen in your car can play a thing that is certainly distracting to you to that degree. Because how can we live in a world where you'll get pulled over for looking at your cell phone, but you can watch a TV on the screen in your car? Wouldn't that make sense to outlaw that?
- [97:24]
Bill Landis
Sure. Yeah. Distracted driving is distracted driving.
- [97:27]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah. So that, like. So. But that's the thing. You can't. You can't make people, like, not be allowed to bring their phone into their car. But you can tell car manufacturers, like, there's. We're not allowing anything on a screen in there. Oh, yeah. No. Ari should go to jail.
- [97:43]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [97:43]
Doug Lesmerises
What are you in for? I was watching Heavyweights while I was driving. What are you in for? Murder. Oh. Let's be friends. Okay. So I did watch the first episode of Task on hbo. Did you watch it yet?
- [98:03]
Bill Landis
You haven't watched it? Yeah, yeah, I haven't seen it. I haven't watched it yet.
- [98:06]
Doug Lesmerises
So. So it takes a while to get going. There's a guy. Did you watch Ozark?
- [98:12]
Bill Landis
Yeah, the brother, right? Yeah, he's.
- [98:14]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah, the actors. Tom Pelfrey is his name. Because I can remember. I started following him on Twitter during Ozark. He had, like, a thousand Twitter followers. I was like. I am like, Tom Pelfrey's Most famous Twitter follower. Let's get him on the show. Really good actor. He's in there. But the main takeaway for me, and I'm just this. You're the perfect person to ask about this is again, it is based in Philadelphia, the Philadelphia Subur. And it's Mark Ruffalo. And these people and the director. I know the writer, they are just making the people do the Philadelphia accent so much.
- [98:46]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [98:46]
Doug Lesmerises
And I don't know what percentage of the American population understands the Philadelphia accent. You are from Philadelphia. I grew up two hours from Philadelphia and then lived in Wilmington, Delaware, which is 40 minutes from Philadelphia for eight years and has the same kind of thing. But, like, you're telling these actors. Because if you told these actors, you're doing a story in the deep south, you're doing a story in Texas, you're doing something in England. Right. You understand that accent. But someone told Mark Ruffalo, okay, you're playing a guy from Philly. And he's like, okay, what do I need to do? And they just said, when you say the word water, you've got to say water. And he's like, okay. So all these people are just walking around being like, like, all right, we've got to crack this case. Do you want some water? And it is like, if you don't understand. I'm sure there are people in our audience, Bill, who don't know anything about the Philadelphia accent. It sounds insane. They're going. Because I've told this story before. A dear, late friend of mine, dearly departed. I did a story one time. When the water boy movie came out, my sports editor made me do a story about water boys in high school. And I asked my friend, I was like, oh, do you know any water boys? And he said. He said, yeah, like, I was a water boy. And I thought he was saying he was a water boy. And I thought it was something that he did with a piece of wood, that he put pieces of wood in, like, the cleats of the shoes to keep them stretched out. He's like, yeah, I was a water. Because he was saying the word water boy and saying wooder boy. But it's just weird to see it in TV show. It is weird to see in a TV show. And I think they could just dispatch with it. It's too much, Philadelphia.
- [100:31]
Bill Landis
I. I actually agree with you. So I. I don't have much of a Philadelphia accent. I don't really know that I ever did certain words. It comes out. Sometimes it comes out when I'm angry It comes out if I spend a lot of time back home. But it is. It's distracting almost when you see it in a television show. Yeah. The thing that. The thing that always bothered me about when things are set in Philadelphia and people just want to do, like, a generic, like, east coast, I'm walking here kind of accent, like, you don't. That, like, people don't talk like that in Philadelphia. So, like, why would you make your actors talk that way? But you don't have to make them elongate their O's.
- [101:09]
Doug Lesmerises
Right, Right.
- [101:11]
Bill Landis
Because they're doing. Because they're doing a Delco accent. That thing matters to, like, six people who are watching the show. And the rest of the country's just like, what is this that's coming out of these people's mouths? It's similar. Like, Philly and Baltimore have pretty similar accents. It's like the middle Mid Atlantic thing. But yeah, it's like, people don't. It's. It's not a proper way to talk to make your actors, like, really focus on that is kind of insane.
- [101:35]
Doug Lesmerises
I don't think I'm giving anything away. Mark Ruffalo drinks out of a Phillies cup during the show. We get it. It's in Philadelphia. Let the man say water.
- [101:46]
Bill Landis
How many. How many Wawa references were there in the first episode? Or Acme.
- [101:53]
Doug Lesmerises
Then the main thing is somebody works at Areita's water ice. Excuse me. Somebody works at Arena's water ice.
- [102:00]
Bill Landis
I do say water ice. I say water, but I say water ice.
- [102:03]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah, that makes sense. And they said they're going down the shore. Like, we get it, we understand. Like, I get it, I get it, I get it. Just let them say water. All right. What are you eating?
- [102:12]
Bill Landis
Two things that I had at the wedding. So the rehearsal dinner was at this Italian place, and for dessert, they brought out cannoli cupcakes. Are you a cannoli guy?
- [102:23]
Doug Lesmerises
100 and on cannoli. Yeah.
- [102:25]
Bill Landis
Love it. So cannoli cupcake is just like yellow cake, like, which was, like, excellent. Like, super moist. Like, exactly. Like the proper whatever texture that you want from a cupcake. Like, ideal with the cannoli filling inside the cupcake, but then also on top of the cupcake with the chocolate chips on top of it. It. It was awesome. Like, it took everything in me to not have seven of them after dinner. I know. I know yourself because. Well, the problem was, like, they had. They had enough, basically, for everyone who was there. But I was sitting next to my brother and my now sister in law and like, they were like walking around talking to people. So their cupcakes were just sitting there staring at me for like 20 minutes. And I was like, I really want to eat these. But I didn't do it. I just had one. But it was the best cupcake I ever had. Had.
- [103:13]
Doug Lesmerises
It's nice.
- [103:13]
Bill Landis
I actually, like, not even close. And then the other thing. So my now sister in law is Sri Lankan. So there's the. The dinner at the wedding was like a bunch of like South Asian food, which was really good. But at the end of the night, by the way, this is a great idea. Like, you have your dinner, everyone's dancing, people are drinking. At a certain point, like, you get hungry again. You're like, where's the. Like the food's gone. They had like, toward the end of the night, somebody come in with, with like snacks and this. The snack was a chicken tikka masala wrap.
- [103:44]
Doug Lesmerises
Nice.
- [103:45]
Bill Landis
But the bread was. I looked it up, it's called paratha and it's like this, like, it's. It's kind of like PETA, but it's like flakier.
- [103:54]
Doug Lesmerises
Okay.
- [103:54]
Bill Landis
And like a little more buttery. And that was the wrap around the chicken tikka. It was awesome. Like, I was in the moment where I was like sweating from. I wasn't really dancing that much, but it was dancing enough that I was sweating just like sitting there starving. And then someone handed me this wrap and it was the most. One of the most magical moments of my life. And then it tasted incredible. So I think the place is in. It's in Stanford, Connecticut. It's called Shirley's. I don't know if there's anybody listening who's in Stanford, Connecticut that wants to go to Shirley's, but their chicken tikka wrap was, was phenomenal.
- [104:24]
Doug Lesmerises
And look at that. You being introduced to a new kind of bread.
- [104:29]
Bill Landis
Yes. That was big time. Yeah. Because I've had. I've had chicken tikka masala before plenty of times, but never in a wrap.
- [104:36]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah.
- [104:37]
Bill Landis
Yeah. The bread was, was really what set it off.
- [104:39]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah, look at that. Oh, you're. What a great marriage this is gonna be. Two people who appreciate bread. Your brother and your sister in law.
- [104:48]
Bill Landis
My brother's on his honeymoon right now in Guatemala. And every time we ask him, like, hey, how's it going? He just sends us a picture of a new meal he's eating. Like it's all. No photos of the scenery, what kind of time he's having. He's like, I ate this and I ate this and I Ate this like, you are my brother.
- [105:01]
Doug Lesmerises
No zip lining? No. Just. Yeah. So it's squirre season. I don't know. Is that a Philadelphia accent thing called squirre? So, squash. So my wife stopped at little farmer's market stand on the way home from work and. And cut this up to include in our dinner. Delicata squash. You enjoy the delicato squash. Is it delicata or delicato?
- [105:26]
Bill Landis
I don't know.
- [105:26]
Doug Lesmerises
Tremendous. It's a little bit of a sweet squash, and it is a seasonal squash. And my wife was talking about it, she said she bought, like, five of the eight at the farm stand because it's only available, like, starting in September. Delicata. Delicata squash is a variety of winter squash. It's so good. It is a little sweet meat, and so she'll just cut it up and I don't know if she puts maybe like some not. I didn't put much on it. Maybe butter, a little seasoning, but just, like, bake it up a little bit. And it's just. It's a. It's. It's very flavorful for a squash in, like, a very delightful way. And it's one of those things, I guess. Like, all fruits and vegetables are seasonal to some degree, but it's like. I don't know, they just put them at a big warehouse. Then you can eat a watermelon in February. I don't know how it works. What am I. I'm not a food logistics guy, but delicata squash, it's kind of like you gotta get it while it's squash time. So we're in delicata squash time. And if you. If you are not a squash eater or you think it's kind of bland, or you think it's kind of weird, like, it certainly is not pumpkiny. It is a little sweet. And it's that time of year. So just look at your farm stand. Go to your local farm stand and ask for a delicata squash, and then come home and. And cut it up and bake it, and you're good to go. Man, it's really good.
- [106:51]
Bill Landis
Yeah. All right. I think I might hit a farmer's market this weekend. Maybe I'll. I'll be on the lookout. I think I may have had this before, now that I'm looking at it. Yeah.
- [106:58]
Doug Lesmerises
I mean, it's not, like, fancy. I'm just saying, like, to me, it is because it's not a carrot.
- [107:03]
Bill Landis
So.
- [107:04]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah. We could do a root vegetable draft in the off season. That'll be fun. All right. What are you thinking about?
- [107:11]
Bill Landis
So again, wedding. I have no time and. Or tolerance for the fall wedding thing. Just like. Shut up. People want to get married in the fall, let them get married in the fall. Friday weddings. A Friday wedding. A Friday wedding is, is. So my brother got married on a Friday. Actually both our brothers got married on Fridays in the fall. Pretty great to have two days to recover from a wedding.
- [107:36]
Doug Lesmerises
Interesting.
- [107:38]
Bill Landis
Yeah. Especially if you're traveling. So I'm not. Again, I'm not going to tell anybody what time of year they should get married. I might tell you to get married on a Friday because it was a. It was. And I know some people get married on Sundays, which means like nuts wake up and go to work the next day. But the Friday and then having the whole weekend, that kind of relax and recover or do whatever traveling you need to do to get back to where you are was, was, was a nice touch because it's.
- [108:04]
Doug Lesmerises
So then it's gotta be Friday night. Some people maybe want to get married in the afternoon. Right. So you go Friday night, but then you go right in then like the, the reception, like, must feel like party time. Like, let, let's go.
- [108:16]
Bill Landis
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was. So this was, I think the, the ceremony was like 5:30 and yeah. Went right into dinner and partying. Like you're asking people to miss a day of work. I guess, like, which I don't want to be dismissive of entirely, but if you're willing to do that, then yeah, it was good. It felt like. Because I don't know about you even like, I feel like, like going into the weekend, like the, the weekend night where I feel like I have the most energy is Friday night too. Yeah. So like there's, yeah, there's like the anticipation of the weekend sort of like feeds into the celebration of, of the wedding. It was good. Yeah. So I don't know, I got, I, I eloped. We didn't have a wedding, so I don't, I, you know, I don't have anything my own experience compared to. But I would, I would recommend maybe to anyone who's thinking about what day of the week they should get married to consider a Friday because it was.
- [109:06]
Doug Lesmerises
Pretty dope because then you can have like. Did they have like a day after a little like breakfast or anything? Because then you get to do that on Saturday. Sunday.
- [109:13]
Bill Landis
For this one they did not. For my other brother's wedding, they did on, on Saturday. Yeah.
- [109:18]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah. You got coveted, didn't you, for your wedding?
- [109:22]
Bill Landis
Yeah, we had to cancel our wedding twice. So then after the second. After the second time, we took it as a sign from above and just eloped instead.
- [109:29]
Doug Lesmerises
Yeah. Yeah. Not a bad idea. Not a bad idea. All right. So I am just reminded of, like, the simple things in life where you don't know about something and then you know about it and it just changes your existence. Because this happened to me. I was reminded of it yesterday. So I was overdue for a haircut. And do you get your eyebrows trimmed when you get your haircut?
- [109:51]
Bill Landis
That Occasionally. Not every time.
- [109:55]
Doug Lesmerises
I can sort of remember the first time my person, the person cutting my hair, asked if I wanted my eyebrows trimmed. And I was like, what? What do you like? What is that? And now ever since, I've gotten my eyebrows trimmed every single time ever since. Right. If they just. They get. You know, they have the. The buzzer anyway, and they just buzz your eyebrows, and it makes. Makes your face feel alive. Like it's like a weight is lifted, especially. And then I'm always on the lookout, especially because I wind up staring into a camera and looking at my own face. For a portion of my job, I'm. I try to be on the lookout for weird old man hair sticking out of places where it shouldn't stick out of, both for my own personal preference and also on behalf of the audience that doesn't want to see. And I. I can't pretend that I catch everyone. And just again, for people, if you're thinking about getting married or one of these things, like it's. You probably should put in the vows that you make your wife cut your weird hair. She didn't really know what she was getting into, but now she's too deep to get out. And I mean, if your wife's not going to cut your weird hair, who's going to cut it? So my stylist cuts my eyebrows, and it is just. I hope there's someone watching or listening who's never had their eyebrows trimmed. And now I can be that person in your life. This is like, I'm paying it forward with the eyebrow trim because someone said it to me. And from that day forward, my life changed. And the only other thing that I can think of the equivalent of this. For some reason, I remember a person like a DJ on a radio station talking about this, and it's like, we. We've already had the T shirt discussion. The white T shirt under the shirt got a lot of feedback from people. Again, it's one of those things. We talk about football for a living, and nothing Gets people riled up, like T shirt opinions, which is why we do watch it. But when you're wearing a T shirt and a collared shirt. Right? And then I feel like we're kind of. Are we completely out of the. In the tucked in days? Does anyone ever tuck a shirt in anymore? Are we completely untucked?
- [112:09]
Bill Landis
In modern society, people are still tucking. Yeah.
- [112:11]
Doug Lesmerises
Okay. We used to be a more tuck friendly society. I think we then. I mean, I even bought a shirt one time from a company who's a whole thing was like, we don't care what color our shirts are, what the design is. The whole point is it's made to be untucked. It was like, man, that's a great design plan. You don't tuck your shirt in. But I feel like I. I was. I was tucked more in the past than I am now, but I always found it difficult. Like when you're tucking a T shirt and the shirt in. Right. You're doing a double tuck into a pair of pants.
- [112:39]
Bill Landis
Yes.
- [112:39]
Doug Lesmerises
And then this radio DJ was talking about you tuck your T shirt into your boxers so the first layer of the shirt is tucked into your underwear. So the first tuck is a layer, and then the second tuck is just into your pants. Right. And I was like, oh, my God, you just changed my life. Because I was going through life trying to tuck two shirts into the same opening, then the opening between the boxers and the pants. And then this person said, no, no, no. He tucked the first shirt into the underwear and the second shirt into the pants. And I've done it ever since. And it was life changing. So just these little moments. Bill. Right? You know, like the first time someone ever told you that on. On a car, there's an arrow pointing which side the gas tank is on. Everybody has that moment. There's the moment you didn't know that, and then the moment you knew that that for the rest of your life. So it's just like, I love those little moments in life. And I hope again, maybe there's somebody out there struggling with the double talk. Tuck the T shirt into your underwear.
- [113:44]
Bill Landis
Yeah. It's good advice. I've done. I've done it before. I don't want to. You know, sometimes it is. It is necessary. I think I don't even know.
- [113:55]
Doug Lesmerises
Possible, though. I didn't know it was allowed.
- [113:56]
Bill Landis
How about that? How about yeah, yeah. Maybe it is a fashion faux pas.
- [114:00]
Doug Lesmerises
I don't know. Know.
- [114:01]
Bill Landis
But also, no one has to know.
- [114:03]
Doug Lesmerises
No one has to know. That's between. Tucking is very personal. That's between you and your tuck. It's not something we have to talk about actually probably shouldn't talk about in polite company. All right, that'll do it for watcha. We'll be back Friday with our national picks here on YouTube and in your podcast feeds. We will be back on Saturday with a live watch along for Ohio State versus Washington. We will have the post game show live on YouTube more like 11pm Eastern after Oregon and Penn State in that zone. We'll talk about Oregon, Penn State, we'll talk about Georgia, Alabama. We'll talk a little bit more about Ohio State and Washington. We'll talk about all the big games of the day. And then we'll be back on Sunday for our premium subscribers on Substack. That'll be a substack only video where we'll take your questions about what happened in the Ohio State Washington game. Questions and comments there so you can find even more Ohio State coverage from us on substack. Billandougosu.substack.com we would invite you to go try that, but then we're dumping a lot of stuff. I don't say dumping. We're providing a lot of things here on YouTube and your podcast feeds. Talk about college ball. We're happy to do it and happy you guys were along for the ride. So that's it for a big game breakdown. Both of us picking Ohio State to beat Washington. For now, he's Bill Landis, I'm Doug Lame Rice and that was the Bill and Doug show. Some things in life are just made for each other. Other Peanut butter and jelly Macaroni and cheese Modelo and College Football College football season is Modelo season and the season has officially kicked off. The Modelo recruiter is back in action looking to reward full time fans who give their all for their team and their school week in and week out. If you're listening listening to this, you've been recruited. So lace em up and get out there and don't forget to make time for a well deserved ice cold reward because college football wouldn't be the same without you. So grab yourself a Modelo and enjoy the official beer. Sponsor of the College Football Playoff. Modelo.