← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Ohio State vs. Wisconsin Picks and Preview: Can the Buckeyes avoid the DAF in Madison?
00:56:25
It's an Ohio State vs. Wisconsin preview for the Buckeyes' game in Madison on Saturday at 3:30 eastern, as Doug Lesmerises and Bill Landis make their picks for the game.
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Bill Landis
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- [01:08]
Bill Landis
Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show. Time for Ohio State Picks Ohio State at Wisconsin Saturday at 3:30 Eastern Bill Landis I went back and re watched the Oregon at Wisconsin game from last year as a comparison for this because a year ago in week 12 Oregon was 100 and the number one team in the country Wisconsin was 5 and 4. This is week 8. Ohio State is 6 0. The number one team in the country Wisconsin is 2 and 4. That was a primetime game at 7:30. This is a 3:30 start. I'm going to ask you how much you think that might matter that game. Even though Ohio's, you know, Oregon was number one and Wisconsin was pretty mid, that line was only 13 and a half which kind of surprised me looking back on that. This line is 25 and a half that Ohio State is favored by and Wisconsin gave Oregon a game the whole night and we can talk about it a little bit but I thought it's like hey, it's like wow, Wisconsin's hosting the undefeated number one team in the country. What a spot for the Badgers. Oh they did that last year and maybe should have won. First off, the fact that this is an afternoon game and not prime time in camp Randall, do you think that makes it a slightly better spot for Ohio State than it was for Oregon a year ago? Or does it not matter?
- [02:33]
Doug Lamoris
No, I think it matters. I also think at that time last year, like the fan base in general was not as out on the look fickle experience as they are right now. So like I don't I'm not anticipating much of an environmental edge For Wisconsin on Saturday. And I think that time last year they probably still had a little bit of one.
- [02:54]
Bill Landis
Okay. I think that is true. One of the other things last year was Oregon, I think was playing at sixth straight game and it was, I think, I think it had a, like a second buy super late. So Oregon was in like a kind of a tough stretch there. This is the end of a four game stretch for Ohio State. Playing four straight weeks. Three of the four on the road road and back to back road games. Like that part of it for Ohio State. Not that playing four in a row is tough, but three of four on the road. Ryan Day even mentioned it this week that that's, you know, and back to back road games. Is that anything as you think about this matchup?
- [03:31]
Doug Lamoris
Yeah, I, I did consider that a little bit because one of those trips is a west coast trip. One of those trips is like a pretty good Illinois team. I think Ohio State's like a little banged up, is eager to get the, the break that it's going to get next week. So yes, I do think that could be a, a minor factor here. I guess the only. It seems like Ohio State is going to get some guys back maybe for this game that didn't play last week. Lorenzo Styles Jr. Edric Houston. Ryan Day said he's expecting them to play. Oregon last year in that game did not have Tez Johnson or Jordan Birch. So you know, Ohio State is not dealing with anything of that magnitude as it goes into this game.
- [04:13]
Bill Landis
So I do think in rewatching that game, this will come down to Ohio State's daf. And I always talk about, I want to invent a stat. I want it to be my legacy. Here lies Doug. He invented a stat. So I've invented DAF this week for college football teams. Bill, do you want to figure out what DAF stands for?
- [04:41]
Doug Lamoris
Yes. I don't know what it is because I don't know if the D stands for Doug or Duck.
- [04:45]
Bill Landis
Oh man. It should stand for Doug. Some, in some circles, some people might want to call this the FAF factor, but I'm not calling it the FAF factor. I'm calling it the daf. I already gave away the F. It's DAF is the dork around factor. How much is a team willing to dork around in a situation where they probably shouldn't? Right. So Oregon dorked around last year like you watch them against that Wisconsin team. And Oregon went field goal interception in the red zone. Field goal, punt, punt, punt on the first drive of the Second half, then they scored a touchdown, punt and then field goal to win it. So they were up six nothing. Field goal, interception in the red zone, field goal. And you just watched the game and they were doing whatever they wanted. And then. And this is what I missed about with Ohio State. Do you think Ohio State potentially, like what do you think their daf is? Because it got to the point where Oregon would just have drives where they would run on first down and then get three yards and then on second down you kind of threw a pass and maybe it was slightly off target and the guy maybe could have caught it, but he didn't. And now all of a sudden it's third and seven. Like what happened? Or they went run, run and it was like gain a two, gain a one. Now it's third and seven and what's happening? And now, you know Dylan Gabriel last year, like point guard, kind of quarterback run the offense. A lot of times he could complete third down throws. Julian saying point guard kind of guy run the offense. But you're just off a little bit. Something weird happens and all of a sud like the drive is over and you kind of don't understand why it is. It's not like the defense stopped you. And we will talk about Wisconsin's defense, but yet you're done or you're held to a field goal. Especially your, your daft in the red zone can really come up and bite you. Do you think Ohio State is capable of going on the road for the second straight week and just with the run game situation maybe slightly banged up in the backfield, just dorking around, could that happen?
- [07:02]
Doug Lamoris
I think the offense is capable, capable of it. Yeah, we've. I know Ryan Day quibbled with the idea of last week being a slow start and he's right. They scored on their first two possessions, but there's Ohio like this. So this is what happened last year with Oregon and Wisconsin. Oregon out gained Wisconsin 137 to negative eight on the first three possessions. Put took the ball to the Wisconsin 17, the Wisconsin nine and the Wisconsin 24. And it was only six. Nothing like, yeah, Ohio State has that in them.
- [07:34]
Bill Landis
Okay. For sure.
- [07:35]
Doug Lamoris
Yeah.
- [07:35]
Bill Landis
Because like that's the formula. And, and I think when you look at Wisconsin's defense, they have a couple guys, they're okay. They're certainly better defensively than they are offensively. But I don't think. Do you think this is a Wisconsin defense that's going to come out and shut down Ohio State's offense? No, no, I don't Think so either. I think they could make a play here or there. And then if you are doing things to help them, you drop a pass kind of. You miss a block on the edge, on a run that should have gone for 12, and you miss one block and now it goes for two, like, that kind of thing. And I do just think, you know, this is. I don't think we're really. We're not having a conversation really about, you know, is Ohio State in danger of losing? They're not, but could it be a game that is closer than it should be? I mean, Oregon was in danger of losing, but that was a better Wisconsin team, and it was at night. Right. So I think, like, and Tez Johnson, you know, they're missing their best offensive player and arguably their best defensive player in Jordan Birch. Ohio State's not in that spot, but I'm. I think it is an interesting spot for Ohio State. They're in control of it. I'm not sure Wisconsin, either side of the ball has anything to really challenge Ohio State, but it's just like, schedule, road game situation. If Ohio State doesn't dork around at all and just handles business, I think we have to be impressed because I think to be on dork around alert makes sense. So now we're setting up like, hey, man, Ohio State came out and scored touchdowns on four of its first six drives and was up 28 nothing at the half. Let's not brush that off because. Because I think you could see how it could go the. I think you can see how it could be 6, 6 nothing in the middle of the second quarter.
- [09:20]
Doug Lamoris
Sure, but aren't we on. We're on dork around alert from now until the Michigan game, aren't we? I mean, the. Penn State's a. Penn State's a very. We don't talk about it, but, like, it's a very interesting matchup. Yeah, it's like team, team down on its luck, without a hope in the world, but still good players. Yeah, we could talk about that next week, but we remove that game. Like, there's a lot of dork around opportunities for Ohio State. I think this, the second half of the season, this being one of them. Yeah. I think, like, you know, even the Washington game, like, Washington's a better team, much tougher place to play. Again, that game had far more stakes to it than this one did. But just the way that game transpired, like, they didn't. Ohio State didn't, like, put its foot on Wisconsin's neck early. Right.
- [10:06]
Bill Landis
Or.
- [10:07]
Doug Lamoris
But Washington's neck early if they don't hear, like, I don't. A lot would have to go wrong in this game, I think, for Ohio State to be in jeopardy of losing it. But there's an opportunity for a slow start. Yeah. And I think Ryan Day was like really harping on not starting slow last week. And I don't think, I don't think they did. I don't think they started slow. The defense, the defense started great. The offense scored twice on their first two possessions. But it's like, can you ratchet that up again for a game like this against a team that stinks? Maybe not. I, I think it could. It's like, I think it's more challenging to your. Which is to, I think, to your point to say, like, if they don't, if they, or if they do come out like guns ablaze and score touchdowns on their first, whatever, three possessions or something like that, which we've seen Ohio State do before, I would be pretty impressed by that. Even though Wisconsin is not a very good team. Yeah.
- [10:59]
Bill Landis
So Wisconsin, Wisconsin's in major trouble. They're two and four. They're. Owen three in the Big Ten. They're on a four game losing streak. And this is one of those, like, to me, you know, I think you, I, yes, it's a DAA for UCLA and Purdue and Rutgers also. But just. I, maybe it's, it's probably wrong, but like in my head it's like, well, going to Camp Randall is probably a little tougher than all Wisconsin's own three. Wisconsin might not win a Big Ten game. I don't know. And it's like, like Wisconsin, Wisconsin lost.
- [11:28]
Doug Lamoris
At home to Maryland and they're, they're.
- [11:31]
Bill Landis
They'Re 02 in the Big Ten at home. They lost 27 to 10 to Maryland. They got shut out at home by Iowa last week, 37 to nothing. So it's like, hey, in Camp Randall you never know. It's like, what are you talking. It's 64 to 10 in Big Ten games in camp Randall against him this year. They could, like, Iowa has a good defense, but if you think I was a good defense, wait until you see Ohio State. So like I don't know how Wisconsin's gonna score. And then if Iowa can score 37, why are we talking about dorking around with Ohio State? Right. So, so that's possible, right? That even the idea of trying to compare what happened with Oregon last year as the number one team in the country in Camp Randall, this was. Constantine might be so much Further below that Wisconsin team that the comparison is moot.
- [12:20]
Doug Lamoris
I think it's mostly moot. Yes. And also the idea of like Ohio State dorking around is, I think is almost entirely an Ohio State versus itself conversation. I don't think it's anything that something can do to it due to Ohio State. So. But I also, like, I, I think there's enough like, you know, what's up with the run game stuff like, yeah, you guys won, but you didn't look great. Like the kind of conversations that I think tend to bring out the best in Ohio State. So I, I think it's maybe a little more likely we, we see that there is a bit of an X factor in this game though. It's supposed to rain.
- [12:58]
Bill Landis
Okay. Because you're bringing up, you're. This is the only thing I ever learned in school. It's my favorite thing I think I ever learned in school. Right. All the conflicts in, in literature. Right? Man versus Man. Man versus man. There's no conflict here. Ohio State's players versus Wisconsin players. That's not what this novel is about, right?
- [13:19]
Doug Lamoris
Correct.
- [13:20]
Bill Landis
Man versus God. Now man versus God, that's just the football gods. So this is like passes hitting guys in helmets. You know, weird. Like even last year there was like a sequence where Wisconsin, Wisconsin converted a third down late in the game when they were trying, when it was still tied and they called a chop block on Wisconsin. That wasn't actually a chop block. It was a bad call and it wiped out a third down conversion. And that's like the football God. So like there's some like weird stuff that can happen to you sometimes. So I think you always are on alert for man versus God, right?
- [13:56]
Doug Lamoris
Yes.
- [13:57]
Bill Landis
Now you're bringing in man versus nature. Because I was gonna say man versus nature. We're out. Right. Camp Randall, who cares? Jump around. It doesn't matter. But you're bringing in rain, so that's a little something maybe. Could this story be about man versus nature potentially?
- [14:14]
Doug Lamoris
You always worry about wind more than you do rain. It doesn't look like it's going to be especially windy in Camp Randall on Saturday. But I don't know the answer to this question. Do you think Julian Saying has ever had to throw a wet football in a game?
- [14:26]
Bill Landis
Wow, that's a Tuesday question, bro. Man, that's a Tuesday question.
- [14:32]
Doug Lamoris
Well, I didn't know it was supposed to rain until last night.
- [14:37]
Bill Landis
We just need to be asking that question in August when you talk to Julian saying it's like just in case it rains. At any point in time this year, have you ever thrown a wet football? Do you think Julian Saying has seen rain?
- [14:49]
Doug Lamoris
I don't know. He's from Southern California, man. In San Diego. Yeah.
- [14:53]
Bill Landis
This is one of those things. It's like, yeah, all those guys, San Diego, right. That is a. That's like Truman show stuff. That is not a real place.
- [15:00]
Doug Lamoris
Yeah.
- [15:00]
Bill Landis
So, like, all those recruiting stories of guys from the south coming to the Midwest and. And the north and like, they see snow for the first time. Julian Saying, seeing rain. Julian Saying's like, why, I didn't know.
- [15:11]
Doug Lamoris
I'm sure he's seen rain. I just don't know if you've ever played in rain before.
- [15:15]
Bill Landis
Like, like Julian Sanders watched the scene in Shawshank Redemption when Tim Robbins comes up out of, like, the pipes and it's raining, right. And he's looking up at the sky and Julian is like, man, what a weird thing that in the movie they made water fall out of the sky. Why would they do that? That's fake. It's like, well, Julian Rain is real.
- [15:36]
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- [17:34]
Bill Landis
So that could be, so that could be a little bit of a thing. But really this is man versus himself. This is the Buckeyes versus themselves. And that is, it's just hard. And I do think, and we, we kind of noted this before the season like this, this spot between the two buys three of the four on the road and like possibly like all kind of competitive teams. And then it turned out not to be exactly that. But Washington's pretty good, Minnesota's okay. Illinois I think is pretty good. And Wisconsin's not very good.
- [18:09]
Doug Lamoris
No.
- [18:10]
Bill Landis
So we're not shocked by that. But it was just. I really thought this could be a trip up area these four. I really thought I picked one, you know, I think I had, I think a lot of people maybe picked them to lose one of these. I think maybe you picked Washington. I picked Illinois. Preseason, it's like I just don't think the defending national champs are going to go 12 0, but I think they'll beat Penn State at home. I think if you think they'll end the Michigan losing streak then like what is it? It's like, well there's this actually kind of like a tougher than you think four game stretch and now they're at the end of it. And so again I think this is one of those, the reason that we're not, this is not false. We're not setting this up to be like, man, it's a 25 and a half point game. Hey Bill, let's make sure we try to fake it and like act like it's going to be. But I think we just want to make sure that if, you know, they, they control Demond Williams Jr. In Washington and held them to six. They compared, you know, was Minnesota had one drive, had more yards on its first drive than it did the rest of the game and they dominated that. They let it rip offensively, 42 to 3, not a game. And then they go and handle, they're never in danger at Illinois. And again I think Illinois is pretty good. And so now if they go handle their business at Wisconsin, I just think we have to be impressed by this four game stretch. In a world where Paul Feinbob and Peter Burns and a Lot of national people who just don't see anything and think the whole Big Ten sucks would be like, well, of course they won those four games.
- [19:28]
Doug Lamoris
Four games.
- [19:29]
Bill Landis
Four games. But it's like, no, I think there was something here if they would have allowed it to be. And if they finish off Wisconsin, they didn't allow anything to trip them up.
- [19:38]
Doug Lamoris
Yeah, I, I would consider like an Ohio State to be like very much as like an about its business kind of team. Right. Like they.
- [19:45]
Bill Landis
Yes.
- [19:47]
Doug Lamoris
I don't think they've shown much in the way of like a lack of focus or attention to detail like here and there. Sure. Like the Ohio game in the red zone, like that kind of stuff. It has happened. They're not perfect, but especially if you take like the games against Power 4 competition. Like have they been runaway blowouts, 52 to nothing kind of games? No, but they've all been controlled, I think for more, more or less by Ohio State. And you know, talent wise, this should be the, the one that's most easy to control. There's. There's some outside stuff that could contribute to that that maybe makes it less so. But yeah, if this is another week where Ohio State just goes in, does what it has to do, handles its stuff, doesn't find itself in any funky positions, I think it's impressive really. Almost like no matter. Certainly the margin matters. But if it's like whatever, if they win by three scores, they win by six scores. I don't know that I care necessarily as long as Ohio State feels like it is controlling the game from start to finish.
- [20:44]
Bill Landis
Yeah, it's the never endanger threshold. Like. Yeah, you can't. It's like, oh, it was only 31 to 10. It's like the other team never had the ball when they were down less than two scores. Like that's never in danger. Like, I don't. Like you said, you said it exactly right. So I do think, I think we're to set up the idea of if it goes as you expect, let's make sure we give Ohio State credit for that. Just to double back on that Oregon Wisconsin game from last year. Dylan Gabriel in that game was 22 of 31 for 218, no touchdowns. One weird pick in the red zone where he just threw behind kind of.
- [21:16]
Doug Lamoris
An open end zone, wasn't it?
- [21:18]
Bill Landis
Well, it was like at the five yard line. It's like it got. He threw like a little crosser. They were at the nine and he threw like a little crosser to the five and it was a little bit behind the guy. And so then it got tipped up in the air. And then I think the Wisconsin guy caught it in the end zone, but it wasn't a throw into the end zone. So just like a little bit of looseness from Dylan Gabriel. But like the quarterback played for Wisconsin last year was terrible. 12 of 28 for 96 yards overall. Wisconsin was out gained 354 to 226. Neither team ran the ball last year. Oregon 3.4 yards per carry. Wisconsin 3.8 yards per carry. And Wisconsin on its first two drives where it did, I think it went three and out those first three drives, but they had three possible turnovers on its first two drives. There's a fumble that they recovered. There were tip balls that were up in the air that nobody caught and Oregon didn't get any of them. So I would be. I mean, this is one of the things, like, I think if you're trying to watch this game early, I would be on alert for Wisconsin trying to give the ball to Ohio State and Ohio State not taking it because Ohio State is a defense that has not forced a ton of turnovers this year. Like, that's kind of not what they are about. And so then you just. Then you get in a punting game. That's another thing here. Like, this is again, Ryan Day was asked about punting this week. I actually don't know about anything about the Wisconsin punter. I forgot to look that up. Did you look up anything on the Wisconsin Bunner?
- [22:39]
Doug Lamoris
I didn't. Sorry. I can. I can if you want me to.
- [22:42]
Bill Landis
Yeah, but it's just one of those things of like, if you get in, like if you're. If you have a chance for a turnover, you don't get it. And you get in like a weird punting exchange. And Ohio State's punting hasn't been great. And all of a sudden you're kind of like in a field position thing and it's just 6 nothing. When it feels like it should be 21 nothing like that, I think is the main thing to be on alert for.
- [23:02]
Doug Lamoris
Well, Oregon in that game had 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 drives before they nailed the game out. Because that drive also finished in Wisconsin territory. They had six drives finish inside the Wisconsin 25 yard line and had one touchdown. The shaft.
- [23:19]
Bill Landis
Yeah. Meanwhile, Wisconsin, again, like Wisconsin couldn't throw the ball. Wisconsin's touchdown. They hit one deep shot that the receiver almost looks surprised that the ball hit him in the hands. He was like, what? Oh my God, that's a 40 yard completion inside the 10, and then they scored a touchdown. So it's like that kind of thing. And then the other thing is, and I do think Tommy Walker was the back for Wisconsin last year. He popped their average run. Wasn't great, but he popped a couple on drives that mattered for Wisconsin. I do think with Dylan Jones and Darian Dupree and Kiakameli maybe, but like Wisconsin has. Has some guys at running back who maybe could pop something here or there. But I actually, I actually would rather start on the other side because we're talking about the dork around factor. That's, that's all about the Ohio State offense, the Wisconsin defense. Ricardo Hallman at corner right, good player. They had. They had this guy, Mason Ryger, who is from. He's a Louisville transfer. He. He has 19 pressures, which is like 11th in the Big Ten. Kaden Curry, for instance, has 23 pressures. So he's a guy who can, who can get after the passer a little bit. Ohio State fans will remember Tackett Curtis, who was like the big Jim Knowles trying to go to Louisiana to recruit Tackett Curtis. Ohio State did not win that battle for the linebacker spot. He transferred. He didn't transfer. He picked usc and then he transferred to Wisconsin. So he's kind of like one of their guys in the middle of the defense. It's still Mike Trestle calling the defense for Wisconsin, right? So, like, Mike Trestle has been Jim Trestle's nephew. Everybody knows that was at Michigan State for a long time. Was it at Cincinnati with Luke Fickle? Like when. As when Luke Fickle kind of lost Marcus Freeman as his defensive coordinator. Mike Trestle kind of stepped in. In that role. So I as much like everything with, with Wisconsin offensively is in flux, but they still have like a little bit, I think, of a defensive identity. Luke Fickle is a defensive coach. They've been like, they know what they want to do. But they also gave up 37 to Iowa last week. So I don't know.
- [25:23]
Doug Lamoris
Yeah, Iowa and Michigan ran it, ran it okay on them. Alabama threw it on them. Ricardo Holman's actually not playing that well this year now that I'm looking.
- [25:33]
Bill Landis
He's a great grade. He's been like before, right.
- [25:38]
Doug Lamoris
Daryl Peterson's good edge. He's from Ohio. There's some, there's some individual defensive pieces. They law a lot of the guys you should be playing on Wisconsin's defensive line in this game. Played for Illinois last week. So, yes, that's. That's an issue. Yeah.
- [25:53]
Bill Landis
Wisconsin lost three Defensive starters in the portal to Illinois in the off season.
- [25:56]
Doug Lamoris
Yeah. So I don't think like they're. The interior of Wisconsin's defensive line is not great but you know, they're outside linebackers. Slash edges are probably their strength. I don't know like it's, it's certainly better than their offense. It's like a top 50ish kind of defense.
- [26:14]
Bill Landis
Yes.
- [26:15]
Doug Lamoris
It's not, it's probably of these four teams that Ohio State has played, it's probably still the fourth best defense in this four game stretch. But there are individual guys, I guess who could make some plays to muck some things up.
- [26:30]
Bill Landis
Wisconsin allows 31 3rd down conversions. That's 24th in the country. So like that, that's okay. They're decent on third down. But what do you, what, what do you want to see? What do we need to see from the Ohio State offense in a situation like this? I think we're defining a Wisconsin defense that is okay but also has given like has the potential to be okay with maybe flashes of a, of making a play here or there. But also Alabama, Michigan and Iowa didn't really have any trouble with them. So.
- [27:03]
Doug Lamoris
Yeah.
- [27:04]
Bill Landis
What do you expect to see? What should fans want to see from the Ohio State offense?
- [27:08]
Doug Lamoris
I. Well, I think Wisconsin is going to do the same thing that most other teams do, which is make Ohio State kind of work it down the field and, and kind of keep that umbrella over the top. You know, I want to see the run game be more. I think the number one thing is like finished drives.
- [27:21]
Bill Landis
Right.
- [27:22]
Doug Lamoris
Finish drives with touchdowns, don't finish drives with field goals or else like you find yourself in a game like last week or last year with the Dorgon. Did you know run game efficiency. Ryan Days talked about now that they have six games worth of data like figuring out what guys do best, what they don't do well, asking them to do the things they do well more often I think finding the run concepts that work best for the collective group. So I'm interested to see what that looks like in this game. Maybe that's more of like another side of the bye week conversation than it is change for this particular game. I, you know, I'd like to see Julian saying to kind of take the shots if and when they're there. I don't, I don't know that he always did that last week. I don't know that he's always done a great job of that on the season. He's been incredibly efficient. But I think he has been a Little conservative. This is like a game where you want to. You want to walk that line, right? Because you don't want to. You don't want to tip past to make the game more interesting than it needs to be or. Or, you know, a force throw to make the game more interesting than it needs to be. So I don't think Ohio State will have much problem moving the ball here. I'm just kind of more curious how they choose to do it. But again, the biggest thing is just, yeah, don't. Don't be kicking field goals when you get the ball down in there, because that's how you leave camp rental even with a win, like, not feeling great about yourself.
- [28:42]
Bill Landis
I will say that. That when to take the deep shots does. Is part of the dork around factor a little bit. Because again, you watch the Oregon game last year, and it'll be like, oh, here they're trying to shot on first down. It's like, oh, there's just overthrown. Now it's second and 10, and here comes a run for three yards. And now it's third and seven. And it's not really anything the defense did. So the balance, it really is for, like, it's. I. I just think it's super. We talk about it constantly because we think it's interesting to watch the art of this, the continued art of this, of, you know, you have great players. You know, you have guys who, when you put the ball in their hands are dangerous. And, you know, you have the run game that you still are trying to get it to be more consistent and more efficient. Right? And you know that you have two guys on the outside that if you get Carnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith the ball, they can go to the end zone in any single play. So, like, how. Balance all that to maximize it. And I do think every Ohio State fan should watch this offense with, like, the connection in mind, with the art in mind. Not just what. What can be, what is possible, but like, how you put the brush strokes together on the canvas. Because the palette, man, you got all the colors on the palette that you want, right? But. But the art as Brian Hartline continues to, like, find the art of play calling. And I think they are. They do get caught in between a little bit. I think sometimes when they're running it too much, it's like they're almost like they're trying to establish something to take a shot off what they've established. And then it's like, oh, well, you didn't really establish it. So then you didn't and then when you called the shot, Julian saying, didn't take it, even though it maybe was there. And so I do think. And anybody who watches or listens to us or reads anything, this. This is what it's all about. The Ohio State offense right now. Run game efficiency. Right. Which is. Is everybody blocking their man? And then are you breaking tackles? Right?
- [30:39]
Doug Lamoris
Yep.
- [30:40]
Bill Landis
The art of the play calling, connecting things, setting things up, Is there cohesion to. Does it feel like a plan? And then when they call the shots, are they taking them? So, like, those are the three things. But. And you noted this. What did you say about tight end blocking in your re. Watch? And. And looking at the game from last.
- [30:59]
Doug Lamoris
Week, it was the worst game I've seen in a while.
- [31:05]
Bill Landis
So I did ask. Ask Will Kazmark about that on Wednesday night, and they, like, kind of know it, and they realize, like, it is he. I think it's like an understanding of, like, it's almost like they like it in the tight end room, but they almost like, it's kind of not weird, but it's like, man, it's not always that your run game relies on the tight end so much that they are so primary in the run game when they're putting 2 and 3 on the field on a regular basis, especially in the red zone. And then it's like, hey, because normally when we talk about the Ohio State run game, it's like, oh, man, the offensive line, are they blocking well enough? Like, that is not, as you ran through the other day on our. On our Tuesday night show. That is not the primary conversation here. So, like, they know it wasn't a good game. Like, they see the same thing that you saw. Good. Right? So. And. And. And he said. I said, like, how does Keenan Bailey respond to that? And he's like, Keenan Bailey, like, feels it more than anybody. Like, I think Keenan Bailey is probably, as the tight ends coach is like, mad and on edge and is like, we're not doing our job and we're relied upon so much here. So they. He didn't brush it off. Right? And then it's like, you know, I'm trying to ask the questions because again, it's the art of the question asking. You can't ask. You can't ask five straight. Why aren't you good at this questions? Because the guy's gonna shut down. So then, like I said, like, what's it like when you guys all make your blocks when you're in the tight end room and you are watching film and it's like, we had 13 personnel, and then, like, here's Will making his block, here's Max making his block, and here's Jelani making his block. And he was like, oh, my God, it's better than a touchdown. Like, it's the greatest feeling in the world when you're in that room. You know, that you are called upon and you all did your job. So I'm curious. Like, it's a. I think it's a thing, right? It's not like, it's. This is not like a. Bill Landis is making stuff up.
- [32:54]
Doug Lamoris
Oh, man.
- [32:55]
Bill Landis
Give Landis a telestrator and he just is gonna find somebody to circle. The tight ends are not happy, and the tight end coach is not happy with how they blocked that last week. So let's see what that means here. And maybe it means some guys planting dudes. I don't like. I don't know. Are you. You'll be watching it?
- [33:14]
Doug Lamoris
Yeah, I'm. I'm more curious if it means less guys playing. Like, fewer guys playing. I don't. I think, again, like, I. So they're in a bit of a pickle, I think, because I do think that 12 personnel is their best personnel grouping with Max, Clarence, Wilkas, Marek. But when they're using them both as, like, blockers, it's not great. So I think there's some. I think there's some different things, even, like the. We talked about it, I think, a couple times after the Illinois game. The run. The run right after Jeremiah Smith got hurt, that counter run that went for 8 yards on that play. Casmark and Claire are, like, in tight to the formation, but neither one of them blocks. They use them in an rpo, like, attached to the run, and pull them out of the box, pull defenders out of the box, and it's just like a much cleaner run look. So I think there. There are definitely ways for Ohio State to run the ball more effectively out of 12 personnel than it has been. And I think, like, the first step is using your 12 personnel. More like 11 personnel. So I'm curious to see if they do more of that. I just don't think, like, the 13, 14 stuff has. Has looked very good. Okay, I understand the idea behind it, but I just don't think it's been effective enough for them to do it as much as they have now. If this guy start blocking better than.
- [34:31]
Bill Landis
Sure.
- [34:31]
Doug Lamoris
But I don't. I don't know that they blocked well enough. And they definitely didn't block well enough in the Illinois game for them to be relying as much on the tight ends as they were. So I Ryan Ryan Day saying something to the effect of like, we have a better idea of what guys can do and can't do and we need to stop forcing what they can't do. That to me is like, that's like a tight end conversation. And maybe I'm reading that wrong, but that like, to me that the first position I thought of was the tight end position. So again, I don't know if we'll see drastically different things with that position group in this game because they do have an off week coming up after it, but I think they need to sort of go back to the drawing board a little bit on on how they want to utilize that position. They thought it was their deepest position group coming into the year. I don't think it's played out that way. Okay, so I think they could be helped by relying upon it less and and kind of just rolling with Casmaric and Claire, but that's just my opinion. I don't know if that's what they're actually going to do.
- [35:32]
Narrator/Advertiser
This episode is brought to you by Indeed. Hiring isn't just about finding someone willing to take the job. You need the right person with the right background who can move your business forward. If I wanted candidates who match what I'm looking for, I'd trust Indeed. Sponsored Jobs Hiring Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job. Post seen on other job sites. Give your job the best chance to be seen with Indeed's Sponsored Jobs. They help you stand out and hire quality candidates who can drive the results you need. Sponsored Jobs boosts your post for quality candidates so you can reach the exact people you want faster, and it makes a big difference. According to Indeed data, Sponsored jobs posted directly on indeed are 90% more likely to report a hire than non sponsored Jobs because you reach a bigger pool of quality candidates. Join the 1.6 million companies that sponsor their jobs with Indeed. Spend more time interviewing candidates who check all of your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. Now with Indeed Sponsored Jobs and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves@ Indeed.comBWN just go to Indeed.comBWN right now and support our show by saying that you heard about Indeed on this podcast. That's indeed.combn terms and conditions apply. Hiring do it the right way with Indeed.
- [36:57]
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- [37:31]
Bill Landis
And which means it might be like the tight end group's last chance to show that we can play this way. And we're gonna, we're gonna take one more shot at doing basically what we've been doing, which is 12 a lot and 13 a decent amount in the red zone. And then if it doesn't work here, we're revamping some stuff in the bye week. So I think, you know, a little bit of a do or die, but they feel that, I think, I think it's, they're not oblivious to that. So which is good?
- [37:56]
Doug Lamoris
It felt like, I felt like a lot of the fan base conversation too, like kind of pivoted from the running backs to the tight ends after that Illinois game, which I don't think actually is off base because like I think I wrote this and I think we've said it and asked Ryan Day about it. Like the, the main thing with Ohio State's rushing attack is like it gets what it's blocked for and nothing else. So when it's blocked for a two yard loss, like it was too often against Illinois, it's going to be a two yard loss. And I think a lot of that stuff was, was on the tight ends.
- [38:22]
Bill Landis
Yeah. And it doesn't like, I don't, it doesn't absolve the running backs because it's not like, well, all of a sudden it's like the running back's not breaking tackles except for Bo Jackson. And if Bo Jackson's not healthy, then they really, I mean it's a Peoples, it's a Peoples and Donaldson conversation. But then on top of that, right. As we said, sometimes if the tight ends miss a block, but Ezekiel Elliott's in the backfield, like he's gonna get four anyway.
- [38:42]
Doug Lamoris
Great.
- [38:43]
Bill Landis
So, okay. Anything else, Ohio State offense, Wisconsin defense that you want to mention here?
- [38:50]
Doug Lamoris
Remain curious about the usage of some of the younger receivers. We've seen them get on the field, but not, but not yet targeted. Ryan was asked about Quincy Porter and Myelin Graham on Wednesday night and he said like they're knocking on the door.
- [39:07]
Bill Landis
What does that.
- [39:07]
Doug Lamoris
I don't know. Not to one seat Jeremiah Smith or Cornell Tate obviously, but Maybe to get a touch here or there. We'll see. I don't know.
- [39:16]
Bill Landis
Because a lot of time when they end up talking about knocking on the door, it just. Then they sort of, in the next breath just make it sound like, well, when we get into garbage time, they might get a few more snaps. Like, what's not really. Like, that's great. But it's also, like, not what we really mean. It's like, on the second drive of the game, could Quincy Porter or Milan Graham be in the slots that are Brandon? Like, that's. That's what everybody means. And that's just a completely different conversation, which we now have had a million times both directions. We've had it from the Brandon Ennis conversation, now we're having it from the who it could be Myelin Graham, Quincy Porter instead conversation. And still it doesn't feel like we've met in the middle on that. Where it hasn't been enough of them saying like, yeah, I don't know, Brandon isn't enough. Like, oh, yeah. To get to the point where it comes together and it's like that squishy ball that like, goes like this. You get it? All right, let's go the other side of the ball. Wisconsin, I think, is going to play without a quarterback this week. It feels.
- [40:13]
Doug Lamoris
I was going to ask you, do you know who the quarterback is? Because I have not been able to figure out who's playing quarterback.
- [40:20]
Bill Landis
So just so people know. So again, like, what we used to do, we made it, like, talk about Wisconsin quarterback situation a ton. They. They got two transfers in the off season. Billy Edwards Jr. Was a starter at Maryland last year. Danny O', Neill, as a true freshman, was a starter at San Diego State last year. They got them both. And there was a time when people thought Billy Edwards Jr. Was going to Michigan instead of Mikey Keane to be like the veteran in front of Bryce Underwood. And then it was like, no, he's going to Wisconsin. It was like, oh, they're serious about this. So it's actually not true that they got two starting quarterbacks in the transfer portal this off season. They got three, which I did not realize because Hunter Simmons has started the last two games for Wisconsin. He started three games at quarterback for Southern Illinois last year before he got hurt. So he was like kind of Southern Illinois starter, and he has been the starter now, two weeks ago, what was it? Two weeks ago? I guess. Is that right? They said it's always like on the Wisconsin beat. You know, you always appreciate the beat reporters because they understand like the ins and outs and like, this is how it works. And when something's different than the norm, you like your antenna go up. Right. So Wisconsin always has the starting quarterback talk during the week, and a couple weeks ago, it was either for the Michigan game or the Iowa game. Danny o' Neill talked and said he was taking the first team reps. And then Hunter Simmons started the game, and it was like, oh, that's interesting, because Billy Edwards is basically. Billy Edwards got hurt in week one, tried to play in week four against Maryland, came out in the second series and has not been seen since. Billy Edwards is still hurt. Nobody is anticipating this is.
- [42:01]
Doug Lamoris
Or.
- [42:02]
Bill Landis
Yeah. So he's not. No one is thinking he's playing against Ohio State. So Danny o' Neal or Hunter Simmons. Hunter Simmons played the last. Started the last two weeks against Michigan and Iowa. This week, no Wisconsin quarterback talked. So that was the. Like. That's like. Well, we don't either. A. We don't want to make a guy talk and that not start him. We don't want to give away who it is by who's talking. But also, it's not the first time that we've seen Luke Fickle get a little wacky with the media stuff. Playing Ohio State. Yes. So when he was a head coach at Cincinnati a couple years ago, he didn't let anybody talk the week Ohio State played Cincinnati. And then Cincinnati came in and turtled and lost by 50 in Ohio Stadium. And it was like, Lou, that was like probably the bottom. That was probably the worst game. That was probably Luke Fickle's worst game at Cincinnati because he was unbelievably successful at Cincinnati. But in going back to play at his alma mater at the place where he had been the interim head coach changed what they normally do, and I think it freaked out the whole team. And they played terrible in Ohio Stadium. And then, like, three years later, they were in the playoff. So that was not indicative of Lucas Cincinnati. But. And I don't think this is like, this is born out of just absolute chaos at the quarterback position, which, unfortunately for Luke Fickle, has been the case since he got there. Year one. Tanner Mordecai transfers from smu. He's the starter, gets hurt. Braden Lock plays. Braden Lock's not very good last year. Tyler Van Dyke transfer, Miami. He's the starter. He gets hurt. Braden Lock plays. Braden Lock's not very good this year, bring in three transfers. Billy Edwards gets hurt in the first game. If they just had Billy Edwards this whole time, they might be three. Like, they might have the same record. I don't. They wouldn't have scored zero against Iowa if Billy Edwards was. Junior was playing. Right. Billy Edwards Jr. Was a pretty functional Big Ten quarterback last year.
- [43:52]
Doug Lamoris
Yeah.
- [43:53]
Bill Landis
And now they are down. They are down to trying to figure out is it their second string guy, is it their third string guy? Like Hunter Simmons has been like maybe a little bit. Okay. The last couple weeks.
- [44:07]
Doug Lamoris
Like certainly not QBR like 0.8 last week.
- [44:10]
Bill Landis
I'm trying, can I try to be nice?
- [44:12]
Doug Lamoris
Somebody I saw somebody say Carter, Hunter Simmons, QBR is 0.8. If you drop back and threw the ball into the dirt 20 times, it would be 00, which is not that far off.
- [44:27]
Bill Landis
So mean. They're trying. He, he was 18 of 29 for 177 yards against Michigan. He was 8 of 21 for 82 yards against Iowa last week. No touchdowns, two interceptions.
- [44:40]
Doug Lamoris
So for the year, Deacon Hill impression.
- [44:43]
Bill Landis
Against Iowa for the year, he's one touchdown, three picks, Danny o' Neill's five touchdowns, five picks overall, six touchdowns, eight picks for Wisconsin, six touchdown passes is like near the bottom of the country. And eight interceptions is like the sixth country. Like the passing game is non existent. They actually have a couple okay receivers in Vinnie Anthony and Tresh Kekahuna. They just can't get them the ball.
- [45:07]
Doug Lamoris
Yeah. So Jaden Balor's got seven catches this year.
- [45:10]
Bill Landis
Jaden Ballard, former Buckeye is their deep threat. So, so the quarterback situation is a mess. And like I actually do feel bad for Luke Fickle about this. Three straight year, three straight transfers, starting quarterbacks from smu, Miami and Maryland. Three straight transfers, three straight injuries early in the year completely blew up your season. And then this year even they tried like, well, we want to make sure our backup quarterback's good enough. And then like that still hasn't worked. I, I feel bad, but their quarterback situation's the worst in the Big Ten.
- [45:44]
Doug Lamoris
Is there any, was there any in your reading some of the reports out of Wisconsin to suggest that not making a starting quarterback talk this week is an indication that, that the freshman might start.
- [45:56]
Bill Landis
So Carter Smith is the guy who was, he's from Florida. He was committed to Michigan for a long time and then when Bryce Underwood flipped from LSU to Michigan, Carter Smith flipped from Michigan to Wisconsin. And so I think a lot, I think the fan base is like, what are we doing? Why not? And the things that I saw, it just seems like probably not ready yet.
- [46:18]
Doug Lamoris
I mean I wouldn't throw him out there against Arval Reese and Matt Patricia's defense for his first.
- [46:22]
Bill Landis
So yeah, so yeah, so like that, that just kind of. Because like that's, that was like a big deal. They were pretty happy with Carter Smith, but it's like, oh my God, it's Bryce Underwood.
- [46:33]
Doug Lamoris
It's like a four star top, top 300 quarterback from Florida.
- [46:36]
Bill Landis
Yeah, but that's, that's a pretty big get for them. So I, But I think the passing. Do you expect the passing game to be non functional and actually this might be a chance for Ohio State to get after the quarterback even a little bit more.
- [46:48]
Doug Lamoris
Yeah, I think, I actually think there's gonna be some opportunities for turnovers.
- [46:52]
Bill Landis
You're right.
- [46:52]
Doug Lamoris
Ohio State does not get a lot of them. They got three last week. This feels like maybe another, another chance where they could get their hands on the football a little bit. Whether that's strip sacks or the quarterback throwing them, throwing them the ball. Because I don't know, I saw some Wisconsin fans too saying like, maybe like, are Billy Edwards and Danny o' Neill both like red shirting, like just not burning this year of eligibility? Because what's the point? Oh. So I don't, I don't, I'm assuming it's going to be Hunter Simmons though.
- [47:22]
Bill Landis
Wow.
- [47:23]
Doug Lamoris
And I don't, Yeah, I just, I wouldn't. Not against this defense. I don't think he's gonna suddenly morph into somebody who's pretty good and then.
- [47:31]
Bill Landis
Trying to run the ball, you know. Again, I think, I think they have a couple backs they like, they really were excited about Dylan Jones in the off season. He didn't do much early, but 16 carries for 69 against Iowa, 17 for 63 against Michigan. Again, Darian Dupree was our number two back last year. He's there this year. Like, I don't, I don't think it's going to be consistent. But I think the guys, those two guys, when they have the, the ball in their hands, I think have a little bit of ability. So I wouldn't be shocked to see Dylan Jones pop a little something. And I will say on the offensive line for Wisconsin. Again, this is like probably more than Ohio State fans care about, but Kevin Haywood was a big time recruit for them. Five star second year player was. Oh no. True freshman. True freshman or second year guy?
- [48:13]
Doug Lamoris
He was gonna be a second year guy.
- [48:15]
Bill Landis
I think. Okay. Was expected to be, was going to be the left tackle for sure and then towards ACL and camp. And that was a devastating injury for Wisconsin. Like, just like, hey, like this is a Huge best top guy in their recruiting class two years ago. So Riley Mallman, who's been there starting right tackle for two years, has now moved to the left side. It feels like maybe he's not playing quite as well at left tackle as he played in the past at right tackle. Joe Bruner, still a veteran guard for them. Jake Renfro, their starting center, missed a bunch of games early in the year. Missed like three games, but he was back last week against Iowa. So I do think, like, Joe Bruner, Jake Renfro, Riley Malman, like, that offensive line identity, like, they're still. They have some decent players on the offensive line. So I think that's some. The Wisconsin run game, decent guys in the backfield, some decent guys in the offensive line. I think it is a little something to like, hey, let's see what the Ohio State team run defense looks like. I'm not expecting Wisconsin to run all over them, but, like, they're not incompetent running the ball, I don't think.
- [49:14]
Doug Lamoris
No, it's what it's like to the extent that they do something. Well, that, that. That's it. It's an opportunity, I think, for Ohio State to, like, pack the box a little bit. Okay. And see what that run defense looks like against. Against a team that I think is going to want to run it and shorten the game as much as possible. Like, because I think. I think that's probably. Oh, I mean, Illinois did some of that, but there's not much. There's not really anything to question about Ohio State's defense. But you're just wondering about, like, different styles of offense. This would be, I think, a kind of a different look for. For Ohio State. So I'm curious to see. Not so much how they handle it, because I think they'll handle it fine, but, like, how they choose to, like, deploy their personnel. Because we saw, like I said, Lorenzo Styles is supposed to be back this week, but they played a decent amount with three linebackers on the field last week against Illinois.
- [50:06]
Bill Landis
Yes.
- [50:06]
Doug Lamoris
Oh, they did not really. They did not really go to dime.
- [50:10]
Bill Landis
You think. You think three linebackers two thirds of the game for Ohio State.
- [50:16]
Doug Lamoris
This one. Yeah, I could see it. Because also when they do that, like, they don't. When they put three linebackers on the field, I don't know that they've ever actually played like a 4:3. They just put Arvel Reese on the line and have Sonny Styles and Peyton Pierce behind them. So I think this is probably another one of those games where you see a decent amount of Peyton Pierce and you know, yeah, depending on where the game goes, maybe, maybe you see some like Rally Pettigon or something like that. I'm not sure. But yeah, it'll be a different kind of game I think, which is not a bad thing for a high six defense. You want to experience different styles along the way and I think this will be that.
- [50:49]
Narrator/Advertiser
This episode is brought to you by Indeed. Hiring isn't just about finding someone willing to take the job. You need the right person with the right background who can move your business forward. If I wanted candidates who match what I'm looking for, I'd trust Indeed. Sponsored Jobs Hiring Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job. Posts seen on other job sites give your job the best chance to be seen with Indeed's Sponsored Jobs. They help you stand out and hire quality candidates who can drive the results you need. Sponsored Jobs boosts your posts for quality candidates so you can reach the exact people you want faster and it makes a big difference. According to Indeed data, Sponsored jobs posted directly on indeed are 90% more likely to report a higher than non sponsored jobs because you reach a bigger pool of quality candidates. Join the 1.6 million companies that sponsor their jobs with Indeed. Spend more time interviewing candidates who check all of your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. Now with Indeed Indeed Sponsored Jobs and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to help get your job the premium status it deserves@ Indeed.comBWN just go to Indeed.comBWN right now and support our show by saying that you heard about Indeed on this podcast. That's indeed.combn terms and conditions apply. Hiring do it the right way with Indeed.
- [52:17]
Bill Landis
What do you think about Ohio State's run defense? What do you think about like Cade McDonald and Taiwan Malone that people continue to say good things about? And just like these linebackers, sunny styles, filling gaps and that kind of thing.
- [52:26]
Doug Lamoris
Yeah, I think it's been good. It's not the best run defense in the country. I don't think Texas found some success in that first game. That's really it though, to be honest, like no one else has. And like they, they had a good test when they played Washington with Jonah Coleman. They, they, they tackle well for the most part at the linebacker and defensive line position. So, and I'm, I'm hoping that like Edric Houston does get back in the mix this week because I thought that when he, the way he played against Minnesota two weeks ago was the best game he played, especially against the run. So I would like to see him continue to kind of build up that skill set as well. But. But yeah, so far, I think the front seven against the run's been pretty good. I actually think, like the thing that has popped up a time or two with run defense has been like, when a run has gotten out, you seem like Jalen McLean take like a banana angle or two. But it's like, that's like, I think it actually maybe has been twice over the course of the entire seasons and like neither one of them were touchdowns. But. So, okay, it's not like, it's not a glaring issue. But yeah, like, line of scrimmage game, run the ball. The high seats a good tackling team. Like, I think they'll. They'll handle it fine. But it is a. It's interesting to see them getting a different kind of kind of a game.
- [53:34]
Bill Landis
The raw numbers don't tell you the whole story, but Ohio State is ninth in the country against the run. They're averaging only 84 yards per game allowed on the ground, which again is ninth in the country.
- [53:46]
Doug Lamoris
So Wisconsin, by the way, just for having this conversation, 128th in the country in yards per carry. They ran it for three and a half against Iowa, 2.6 against Michigan, 1.4 against Maryland, 2.7 against Alabama. They were good against Middle Tennessee State, kind of. And then not so good against Miami. Ohio. So like they want to run the ball, they're just not good at it.
- [54:15]
Bill Landis
Dork around factor may not apply here. They just might be in flames. There is no. I'm not sure there's any amount that Ohio State could.
- [54:22]
Doug Lamoris
47 minute mark of the podcast. Actually, everything we said to this point doesn't matter.
- [54:29]
Bill Landis
This is in a really bad spot. Also, Ohio State, raw punting numbers, 41.22 yards per punt for Ohio State. 101st in the nation. Wisconsin 40.88, 106 in the nation. So no punting edge by the raw numbers for the Badgers.
- [54:47]
Doug Lamoris
So this is Atticus as the punter for Wisconsin.
- [54:52]
Bill Landis
Why do you know that?
- [54:54]
Doug Lamoris
Because there's two atticai in college football. Oh yeah, Atticus Sappington.
- [54:59]
Bill Landis
Yeah, and there was it. Was it an Atticus showdown last year at the Oregon kickers? The other attic. Wow, you would have written that because you just would have. Want to use attic guy in a headline. Check out all the atticai on the field in Oregon, Wisconsin. All right, let's go to our picks. 25 1/2 point favorite edge for Ohio State, 41 1/2 on the over, under. But also, you know what? You know, it's the best bet that you could make this week. Go to roback.com r h o b a c k dot com. Check out their game day collection. Like, I like it. When you click on it, they have like the angle, the different angles of all the shirts, you know, so it's like you can see the front, you can see the back. You can see, like if the person's like has a serious look, sometimes they have like a smug look on their face. It gives you like a sense of like, just like, okay, man, I think I'm going to feel pretty good. So it's like good quality. Like, like, just like classy, Classy. Rooting for your team kind of attire. And just like I. The thing I always say is, like, it's just a little different than a lot of the stuff you come across. So I just like, check it out. R H O-B-A C K.com the game day collection. You'll get 20 off your first order. Bad 20. That's the code to put in bad 20. Bill and Doug. 20. That's why it's that code. Bad 20 gets you 20 off the first order. All right, Bill Landis, what are you picking? Ohio State, 25 and a half over under 41 and a half. What do you got?
- [56:28]
Doug Lamoris
35. Nothing.
- [56:33]
Bill Landis
So you think a shutout. Do you know when they. So they, they did shut out Grambling, right?
- [56:40]
Doug Lamoris
I don't know. Actually, their last shutout against the power four team.
- [56:43]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [56:44]
Doug Lamoris
Rucker.
- [56:45]
Bill Landis
So you. So that really is. That's like, no. No little deep shot that drops in. No run that pops. No goofy turnover that sets up a short field. There's no pop in here.
- [56:59]
Doug Lamoris
There's no popping.
- [57:00]
Bill Landis
Yeah. Do you think there's. If this hap. 35 nothing.
- [57:02]
Doug Lamoris
Do you like you last year? 45. 45 nothing. Okay.
- [57:07]
Bill Landis
You said you were surprised. You thought Luke Fickle might be gone this past weekend after getting shut out at home by Iowa. Do you think anything could if he gets shut out, if they get shut out at home, Back to back weeks, Is he done?
- [57:21]
Doug Lamoris
Let me fire up Wisconsin schedule real quick. They are. This is the basketball.
- [57:29]
Bill Landis
This is the insane Wisconsin. All Wisconsin does is play a ranked team every week.
- [57:34]
Doug Lamoris
I was looking to see if they were off after they play Ohio State. Guess what? They're not.
- [57:39]
Bill Landis
They play. They play at Oregon and then they're off.
- [57:47]
Doug Lamoris
Their next three games are Ohio State, Oregon, Washington, India. Actually, the finisher Schedule, Ohio State, Oregon, Washington, Indiana, Illinois, and then at Minnesota, I think maybe they'll, they'll, they'll let Luke wear these next two losses and then I don't think he's coaching on the other side of the bye week at home against Washington.
- [58:07]
Bill Landis
Okay. Because that would be. It's like, okay, you lose at home to Ohio State, it's miserable. The fans are super mad. But now you're gone, you're away. But then it's like the next time, if you get, if you get, especially if, if it's your pick, if they get shut out back to back weeks at home, can you bring him back in that stadium? So if you're going to Oregon, that's not the question. And then it's the bye week and then we have somebody else in charge for the next game because otherwise the fans are gonna not be there, you know?
- [58:39]
Doug Lamoris
Right. So, so, you know, I'll be there for this game. There. There are enough Chicagoland, Ohio State alum, and Madison's not that far that it could be a nice Ohio State crowd there.
- [58:51]
Bill Landis
Actually, that's a lovely trip. I mean, and the thing to watch for, for the Ohio State fans, if you're watching home on tv, this happens all the time now, is that the student section stays for jump around at the beginning of the fourth quarter and then every single one leaves. And so it's like, it is a, like that jump around things keeps people in the stadium. And then if Wisconsin's way down, there is 8% of the crowd left for the fourth quarter.
- [59:16]
Doug Lamoris
You can get in the building for $22.
- [59:20]
Bill Landis
I mean, so if you're an Ohio State fan that's in driving distance of Camp Randall and you've never been there, get in your car and go. It's a cool place to see a college football game. Madison is a, is a cool college town that's right on the lake. Like, there's good places to eat. It's nice vibes walking around. You know, it's not a noon game, so you have a little time to get there. This is one of those, like, just turn to your friends, turn to your family and be like, oh, man, we've always talked about this. It's like, what do you think getting. Just go, just get in the car and go. Go watch your team win in a cool stadium that you've always wanted to go to. That's what these weekends. This is the, the upside of like terrible games. They're cheap.
- [60:00]
Doug Lamoris
Yeah.
- [60:00]
Bill Landis
So. So it's like, oh man, I wish it wouldn't it be fun if this was an Ohio State, Wisconsin, like top 10 matchup? It's like, yeah, it costs $4,000 to get in though. You can get in for the change in your couch. So go. And last week I think you and I both picked Ohio State to score 35. Right? Didn't we?
- [60:18]
Doug Lamoris
I think we did. Yes. Yeah.
- [60:20]
Bill Landis
And they scored 34. And this week we're both picking Ohio state to score 35 because I have 35 to 3. So I'm giving you.
- [60:29]
Doug Lamoris
Ask me, you don't have ye fluke touchdown in there. You're just giving them a field goal. Okay.
- [60:32]
Bill Landis
Yeah, so I'm giving them like a, like a punt exchange that gives them decent field position at the 40 and they complete like one pass that matters. Like a 28 yard throw that everybody's like, oh my God, I can't believe that happened. And then they kick like a 49 yard field goal. So. But this is both unders for us. It's not a gambling show. But. But the over under last week was like 50 and a half and I actually think it moved more towards like 52 and a half. But when we did our show, it was 50 and a half and then Wisconsin scored to make it 34 16. If they would have kicked the extra point, it would have been the over. They went for two and didn't get it. And it was a miracle under and we'll take it. And so we are both taking the under here again. It's really like we're in kind of a similar game script because I think last week we had 3510 and 359 and it wound up 34 16. This week it's, we're at 350 and 35 3. So it's. We're expecting the same thing from the Ohio State offense, less from the opposing offense, but just sort of that like complete control from Ohio State. But not one of those 56 nothing, bombs away, balls chucking all over the place kind of wins.
- [61:47]
Doug Lamoris
Yeah. Ohio State games this year, by the way, are four of the six have gone under.
- [61:53]
Bill Landis
Okay.
- [61:53]
Doug Lamoris
The two that went over were Grambling, which is Ohio State by itself scoring 70. The over under was 62 and a half. And Minnesota, the over under was 42 and a half and Ohio State scored 42. So they basically like, if it goes over, it's because Ohio State's doing, doing all the heavy.
- [62:07]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [62:08]
Doug Lamoris
And Ohio State is also 50 and 1 against the spread this year. Okay.
- [62:12]
Bill Landis
Oh, interesting. All right, so those are our picks. We appreciate you guys being here. We'll have a post game show right after the game on Saturday. We'll have our national picks here on Friday. We have our substack coverage, bill and Doug osu.substack.com and again, if you want to check out roback.com put in the code BAD20 for now. Looking forward to seeing you guys after the game. He's Bill Landis. I'm Doug Lamoris. And that was the Bill and Doug Show.
- [62:44]
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