Ohio State's 10 best transfer additions, and 3 biggest transfer losses, of the Ryan Day era

Summary

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Episode Overview

Podcast: The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Episode: Ohio State's 10 Best Transfer Additions, and 3 Biggest Transfer Losses, of the Ryan Day Era
Date: February 4, 2026
Hosts: Doug Lesmerises & Bill Landis

In this episode, Doug and Bill respond to a listener question by ranking the top 10 transfer additions and the 3 biggest transfer losses for Ohio State football during the Ryan Day era (2019-2026). They reflect on the sometimes-unheralded impact of these transfers—who changed the Buckeyes’ fortunes, who fell short, and who left openings that weren’t easily filled. Drawing on their deep knowledge and signature banter, they provide context, insight, and perspective on how Ohio State has worked the modern transfer portal.

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Key Discussion Points

Approach to Rankings

• The hosts clarify they are not counting the most recent 2026 transfer class, focusing instead on historical impact.
• They discuss how the transfer portal has evolved and why some standout players (like Julian Sayin, who only briefly enrolled elsewhere due to a coaching change) don’t fit the spirit of the list.
  • "I sort of like didn't include him in my top 10 for that reason." (Doug, 04:37)
  • "Since you're doing that, I will. I'll take him off my list too." (Bill, 05:19)

Top 10 Transfer Additions of the Ryan Day Era

Below, the rankings from both hosts are interleaved with context and memorable quotes.

10. Lorenzo Styles Jr. (Doug 10, Bill 9)

• Former Notre Dame WR turned Ohio State DB; eventually thrived as a key defensive starter and special teams contributor.
• "By the end of the year it's like, no, Lorenzo Styles is a pretty decent football player. Buckeye should be glad he's here." (Doug, 06:03)

9. Josh Simmons (Bill 10, Doug 7)

• San Diego State OT, moved from right tackle to left tackle at OSU; became a first-round NFL pick despite injuries.
• "Their offensive line situation is a mess. But I think...He would be very high on the list of, like, weirdest Ohio State careers." (Doug, 10:13)

8. Trey Sermon (Doug 9)

• Oklahoma RB, became legendary during 2020 playoff run, particularly against Northwestern and Clemson.
• "He was a maniac against Northwestern and against Clemson..." (Bill, 13:47)
• "He set Ohio State single-game rushing record, looked at the camera with his eyeballs and turned into a meme..." (Doug, 14:07)

7. Seth McLaughlin (Bill 8)

• Alabama transfer, resurrected his career to win the Remington Trophy as best center in college football but injured late.
• "People thought Alabama kicked him to the curb and he was a terrible player...Ohio State brought him in and he resurrected his career until he hurt his Achilles." (Bill, 16:03)

6. Will Kazmierczak (Doug 8, Bill 7)

• MAC tight end; unsung, steady contributor and reliable blocker, now NFL-bound.
• "Will Kazmarik just was decent like in year one and then in year two, was quite a good football player..." (Doug, 19:31)

5. Jonah Jackson (Both had at 6)

• Rutgers guard; immediate All-Big Ten impact, third-round NFL pick, core part of OSU’s elite offensive lines.
• "Really good player, nasty guard...turn[ed] into a great pro." (Bill, 21:40)
• "What just happened? Ohio State went and got Rutgers best player, started him...and he was All-Big Ten and third-round draft pick in the NFL. Wow, that was kind of easy." (Doug, 23:13)

4-5. Quinshon Judkins (Doug 5, Bill 4) and Will Howard (Bill 5, Doug 3)

• Judkins: Ole Miss RB transfer; provided power, complementing TreVeyon Henderson, crucial to red-zone success during national championship run.
  • "I don't think they would have been [national champs] without Quinshon Judkins." (Bill, 25:48)
• Howard: Kansas State QB; steady leader, tough, mature, national championship quarterback.
  • "Will Howard is a glowing example...came in and Buckeyed himself like a maniac and now is an Ohio State legend." (Doug, 37:03)

3. Davison Igbinosun (Doug 4, Bill 3)

• Ole Miss corner; started for three years at OSU, credited with changing the “culture” and elevating standard of cornerback play.
  • "Culture changer in Ohio State's cornerback room that was lost in the wilderness...set the tone for quality play and being an on-field bellwether." (Bill, 41:15)

2. Justin Fields (Both at 2)

• Georgia QB; waiver transfer, Hesiman finalist, Ryan Day’s first signature move as head coach, defined the start of a new era.
  • "Sets the tone for Ryan Day's entire tenure...no hiccups. He's gonna hit the ground running and just be like a top five quarterback in the sport." (Bill, 45:07)

1. Caleb Downs (Both at 1)

• Alabama safety; two-time unanimous All-American, Thorpe and Lott Trophy winner, core of the national championship defense.
  • "Be the best defensive player in college football for two years and win a national championship...Caleb Downs hit it multi time." (Doug, 52:14)
  • "Mount Rushmore guy at his position at Ohio State too." (Bill, 52:24)

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The Standard: Why These Five Stand Out (53:36)

• Top 5: Caleb Downs, Justin Fields, Davison Igbinosun, Quinshon Judkins, Will Howard.
• "I don't think anyone's busting through that." (Doug, 53:36)
• Importance of multi-year starters versus one-year stars, and the rare synergy of impact and longevity.

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Candidates from the 2026 Incoming Transfer Class?

• Unlikely any will crack the “Mount Rushmore” established by the above group unless they achieve major postseason success or All-American status.

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The 3 Biggest Transfer Losses of the Ryan Day Era

Criteria: Not just who was great elsewhere, but whose departure actually cost Ohio State on the field.

Overview

• The loss list is much thinner than the addition list—a sign of OSU’s roster stability and recruiting depth.
• "To crack the top five best is super high. To crack the top three...the bar is like, have a good season." (Bill, 57:36)

Notable Omissions: Jameson Williams

• Both agree: Williams blossomed at Alabama but wasn't needed at OSU given the Smith-Njigba, Olave, Garrett Wilson trio.
  • "It had zero effect on Ohio State that they didn’t have him." (Doug, 56:52)

Top Losses (as ranked and discussed):

3. Jesse Mirco (Bill)

• Punter, transferred to Vanderbilt; OSU lacked his reliability and experience after his departure.

3. Ryan Jacoby (Doug)

• Lineman, transferred to Pitt, became a starter; OSU could have used his veteran presence during 2024 OL injuries.

2. Mitchell Melton (Bill)

• Defensive end, finished at Virginia, was highly productive (53 pressures, 10 TFLs, 5 sacks).
  • "There were guys playing snaps who weren’t as good as him." (Bill, 61:46)

2. Ryan Watts (Doug)

• Cornerback, transferred to Texas, started 2 years, NFL draft pick. Could have been a solution amid OSU’s DB issues.

1. Jameson Williams (Bill)

• The best player, but—again—his role at OSU was blocked by the best trio of receivers in program history.

1. Joe Royer (Doug)

• Tight end, transferred to Cincinnati, became a key pass-catcher and is now NFL-bound. If circumstances were different, he likely would have shined for OSU.
  • "If you could have guaranteed that he was going to be for Ohio State what he was for Cincinnati, he definitely would have been a major part of why I State’s offense." (Bill, 69:03)

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Broader Transfer Takeaways

• The best OSU transfers weren’t always “obvious” hits at the time:
  • Styles, McLaughlin, Simmons, Kazmierczak—many were undervalued or “position change” gambles.
• OSU has thus far avoided catastrophic transfer losses outside of pre-portal Joe Burrow.
  • But with the 2026 outgoing class, "it would come as a surprise if it turns out all those guys are bad...maybe one or two stand a chance to live up to expectations." (Bill, 72:15)
• Impactful portal additions are integral to program-building in the Ryan Day era but don’t always have to be All-Americans to matter.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the randomness of transfer portal hits:
  • "There's going to be somebody out there that you might be kind of mid on at the moment who has a chance to make an impact." (Doug, 17:57)
• On Will Howard’s place in history:
  • "People love him and he's a legend in Ohio forever." (Bill, 30:57)
• On the 2024 national championship team’s unique makeup:
  • "There were 15 engines to that 2024 national championship...you just needed somebody who didn’t mess it up." (Doug, 32:56)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:22: Introduction to the ranking exercise
• 04:50: Excluding Julian Sayin from rankings discussion
• 06:03 - 12:49: Styles, Simmons, Trey Sermon, Seth McLaughlin discussion
• 19:31: Will Kazmierczak praise
• 21:40 - 23:13: Jonah Jackson and the evolution of guard play
• 25:03 - 28:49: Quinshon Judkins’ RB impact
• 28:49 - 41:42: Will Howard’s legacy, QB hypotheticals, value of fit
• 41:15 - 44:23: Davison Igbinosun, multi-year impact, positional culture
• 44:23 - 47:12: Justin Fields, what-if scenarios, Day vs. Fields’ influence
• 51:54 - 54:18: Caleb Downs’ accolades and why he’s #1
• 56:52: Defining the transfer loss list and why Williams isn’t near the top
• 58:05 - 69:57: Running through biggest transfer losses, Jacoby, Melton, Royer, etc.
• 70:29 - 72:36: Will outgoing 2026 transfers be the first to truly bite OSU?
• 72:43: Reflecting on other programs’ portal pain vs. OSU’s relative luck

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Summary Table: Top 5 Transfers (Consensus)

| Rank | Player | Position | From | To OSU Yrs | Notable Accolades / Impact | |------|--------------------|-----------|-----------|------------|----------------------------------| | 1 | Caleb Downs | Safety | Alabama | 2+ | Two-time Unanimous AA, Nat’l Champ, Thorpe, Lott winners | | 2 | Justin Fields | QB | Georgia | 2 | Heisman Finalist, CFP Runner-up, Ryan Day’s first program QB | | 3 | Davison Igbinosun | Corner | Ole Miss | 3 | Starter/culture changer for elite defenses | | 4 | Quinshon Judkins | RB | Ole Miss | 1 | Key to 2024 national title, power RB | | 5 | Will Howard | QB | K-State | 1 | National champion starter, locker-room leader |

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Closing Thoughts

Bill and Doug highlight that the transfer portal era is about value and fit—not just star power or recruiting rankings. Ohio State has managed to recruit, develop, and, crucially, retain talent at an elite level, rarely suffering from devastating transfer portal departures (with Burrow pre-dating Day’s era). Their closing outlook: the top five impact transfers have set a remarkable standard, and the only way to break into that echelon is through exceptional achievement—something only time and championships will reveal.

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“But can you find Will Kazmariks and guys like Lorenzo Styles and Jonah Jackson and Seth McLaughlin who are going to help you win? Absolutely. And I think those are the names that people should be thinking about for comparison when you think about these transfers in 2026.” (Doug, 55:26)

Transcript

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[Bill Landis]

You've made it on time for the McDonald's breakfast menu.

[Doug Lesmerises]

You think to yourself, finally I can start my day. But what if breakfast could be even.

[Bill Landis]

More perfect with the hot honey sausage egg biscuit?

[Doug Lesmerises]

It finally is.

[Bill Landis]

Go to McDonald's and get it while you can.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show. Transfers Best transfers in of the Ryan Day era. We're making list Bill Landis most painful transfers out of the Ryan Day era. We're not going to count what just happened in this recent transfer portal period that happened in January. But then I think then we can talk about like oh, the, the ones that are in like where could they maybe fit into a list like this down the line. But we're more talking about like a historical perspective which I think is interesting. It's from a question that came from one of our Substack subscribers and we certainly would invite you to join us on our substack billanddugosu.substack.com we write about Ohio State. We do two extra shows over there a week talking about stuff but it's just a good like interesting topic to sort of reset what the portal can do for you.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, it's especially like I, I had not like compared sort of like all the incoming classes like to each other. So that was an interesting exercise to look because it's like, it's almost like they kind of hit or they don't. Yeah, sort of, sort of collectively I guess with like one or two exceptions. But no, it's nice to go, go back through These. Whatever it was. Five classes or so of transfers to see who the best ones were.

[Doug Lesmerises]

And we like to interact with our substack subscribers. And. And by interact, we mean steal their thoughts and turn them into producers for the show. So we. We always do call out for questions over there from our sub stack folk. And we get too many. Not too. Not too many. We get so many, we can't include all of them on our typical Sunday show where we answer questions, so we save them. And this is from Josh M. Our guy which created this show. Ryan Day's top five transfers he has brought in and the top three he has lost since he has been here. Thanks as always, guys. So that's what we're gonna do. Unless you want to do a top 10 transfers in. You said you had a big list, right?

[Bill Landis]

I could probably do 10. Yeah, I've. I've marked down five, but I could definitely do 10 if you wanted to.

[Doug Lesmerises]

I have a top 10. So I could do them as honorable mention and we could just do five. I kind of do a top 10 if you're up for it.

[Bill Landis]

Let's do it.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Okay. You can wrangle your 10.

[Bill Landis]

I can adjust on the fly. Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

So this is going back to 2019 and that first year when Ryan Day took over. And of course, he brought in Justin Fields. He might appear on this list. Right. Jonah Jackson, that first year. Those kind of guys back before we really were in the portal era. Right. So then, like, you're going through and it's like, oh, there's a guy in 2021, 22. And then it's like, okay, here we go. 2023, 2024. And now what's happening in 2026? Again, we're not going to include the 2026 guys here, but we'll talk about where they maybe could fit in, what it would look like. So we'll start with this. I'll start with my number 10.

[Bill Landis]

Okay.

[Doug Lesmerises]

So as we go through the list, we'll go in reverse order, and then if you have this guy, you can just say, oh, he's my number six.

[Bill Landis]

Whatever.

[Doug Lesmerises]

We'll go through it like this. My number 10. And then I have a thing. I'll tell you my thing now.

[Bill Landis]

Okay.

[Doug Lesmerises]

I don't like counting Julian saying on a list like this because I think it's so different because he was. He didn't play a full season at the place. He was there for a month.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

And it's. It's not like the idea of what the transfer portal really is. And it was. It was particular to a retirement that freed everybody up. It wasn't a guy played for a team and you watch that guy play and then we're like, we want to go get that guy. So I'm not saying that we can't have Julian sand on a list like this, but I sort of like didn't include him in my top 10 for that reason. So I don't. I don't know.

[Bill Landis]

I. I think that's fair. I, like, I was sort of conflicted on whether or not I should add him for those reasons. And since you're doing that, I will. I'll take him off my list too. I think that. Okay. He is a sort of a standalone compared to everybody else.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah. Okay, so then I'll say my number 10. And I'm surprised by this, but we have really come around in our discussions about this guy. My number 10 is Lorenzo Styles.

[Bill Landis]

I have him nine. So.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Okay. Because this guy caught a long touchdown against Ohio State as a Notre Dame receiver, then showed up here just a long time. Yeah, it was the Jim. Jim Knowles, I think first play of.

[Bill Landis]

The Jim Knowles era. Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Blitz 10 guys. There was just one defender back and Lorenzo Styles caught it and ran. Not a touchdown. Came to play. His brother play was playing here. His dad had played here. He switched sides of the ball and I certainly was kind of like, this is a lovely story, but I don't know, like, really, what is this going to be? And then even this year as a starter, the first half of the year is kind of like, I don't know. And then by the end of the year it's like, no, Lorenzo Styles is pretty decent football player. The Buckeye should be glad he's here.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I think definitely got better in 25 compared to 24. Important special teams player, not only because he snapped the kick return streak, but like he did other stuff on special teams that I think mattered too.

[Doug Lesmerises]

On.

[Bill Landis]

On some coverage units. Just like. Yeah, like a good. A good football player. I think in the end. Right. Like, I don't know that he. I don't know that he wows you, but his versatility definitely mattered, especially when it came to kind of freeing up another guy who's going to be on this list to do. To do some stuff on the defense. So he definitely. He out performed my expectations for him in 2025 by a pretty significant margin and I thought became very reliable in his last season for the. For this defense in a way that really mattered.

[Doug Lesmerises]

And there may be other guys who appear on our list who fit this description also. But I think it is a nod to, you know what? If a guy's a good athlete and you think he can play at this level, just take him and see what happens. Yeah. So it's like, okay, can Lorenzo Styles be a receiver at Ohio State? With what Ohio State puts on the field of receiver? No. But I don't know. Guy's pretty fast. It's pretty big nose ball. It's from Columbus. Come on, man, let's go. Let's see what's up. And then there you have it. You wind up with a slot corner. So, like, I like a. I think a success story for the portal. Like, success for that family, a success for that player, a success for the program, but also a success for a certain way of thinking about the transfer portal. Yes.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. I, I, when they took him, I was like, all right, whatever. They got Sonny's brother, and maybe he'll do stuff on special teams. He's playing defense. Like, I don't know what this is going to look like. And it's like, yeah, by the end, starting nickel safety, and when he couldn't play, it, like, kind of significantly changed the way they wanted to play defense.

[Doug Lesmerises]

And I do think this is part of it. When you think this is good way to think of anything, it's like, what if they didn't have this guy and if they didn't have Lorenzo Styles this year, like, it kind of would have mattered.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. They just didn't have, like, Especially knowing what we know now about this incoming transfer class and the type of player that Matt Patricia would prefer to have in that role. There really wasn't another one on the roster, which is why they want the Jermaine Matthews, who's an entirely different player than Lorenzo Styles.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah. All right. Lorenzo Styles. So he's my ten. He's your nine. Who's your ten?

[Bill Landis]

My ten was Josh Simmons. And I only because, like, they. Oh, I see. Didn't really get the best version of him, which is why I have him solo. Like, clearly, had he been able to finish out his second season, he would be much higher on this list. But they. They got, what was it, six or so games. One, two, three, four, five. Really? Five games because he played 23 snaps against Oregon before he got hurt. But I also wanted to make sure he was on this list because it was, like, among the better portal evaluations that Ohio State has done. They got him from San Diego State. Some people thought, this isn't going to work. This guy's not going to Be very good. He didn't play very well in San Diego State. And like he was, he was decent I think in his first year. Certainly serviceable. And then like the leap that he made in the year two is like, is this guy going to be one of the best tackles in college football? And became a first round pick despite injuring his knee in the middle of the season. And it just leads me to believe that like maybe he would have been like a first team all American had he finished out that year for Ohio State and he didn't get to finish it.

[Doug Lesmerises]

But.

[Bill Landis]

And that's why I have him low. But definitely a good player. And maybe more important than that, a really good portal evaluation for Ohio State.

[Doug Lesmerises]

I'm seven and I was at the front of the line of like, what are they doing? You're starting left tackle. Is San Diego State starting right tackle? Good luck. Way to go Ohio State. And we know it was kind of a weird thing. It was a Covid thing. He probably was a better player than a San Diego State level player. Justin Fry knew him because it was on the west coast and when Justin Fry was at ucla. But I still thought it was nuts. And like this is Ohio State's plan shows that like their offensive line situation is a mess. But I think we, we would. He would be very high on the list of like weirdest Ohio State careers.

[Bill Landis]

Yes.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Because he wound up being a first round draft pick of the defending super bowl runners up. Right. No. Were they the chance when they took him?

[Bill Landis]

No.

[Doug Lesmerises]

I guess the Eagles, right?

[Bill Landis]

No, no.

[Doug Lesmerises]

They're the champs.

[Bill Landis]

Because the Eagles won the same year as Ohio State. Yeah. Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

And that. It's like he's, he's the answer to protecting Patrick Mahomes. And it's like what did he do as a Buckeye? And it was like, fine. That might be wrong. I guess they lost the Eagles. Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

Go Birds.

[Doug Lesmerises]

But it's like, yeah, he, he, he was fine, decent like the year Kyle McCord was the quarterback and then.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Was so good as a starting left tackle. He made himself first round pick. But then also the story of the season. Bec he got hurt. What Donovan Jackson did to fill in for him. And then it was like, why didn't you just make Donovan Jackson the left tackle the whole time? Right. Which is one of those. It's like this is a little bit. Maybe it's too high for me because like what would have happened if Josh Simmons didn't come to Ohio State in the transfer portal? And the answer maybe was they just would have Made Donovan Jackson the left tackle for two years and it would have been fine. Yeah, we were waiting for like three years for them to make Donovan Jackson a left tackle. They never did it. It was like they're desperately grasping for mountain tackles and Donovan Jackson as a five star is right there. And I know what's the difference between Donovan Jack, Austin Sarevelt is Donovan Jackson. He's a good guard that had to play tackle and did it well. But like they were so reluctant to do it with Donovan Jackson forever and Austin's farewell. They just did it. But I guess if Josh Simmons had been Ethan Onianwa then maybe Donovan Jackson would have been the starting left tackle.

[Bill Landis]

Yes.

[Doug Lesmerises]

From day one. Right. And Josh Simmons hit. So I think he deserves to be on this list because they. They took a guy from San San Diego State. He turned into a first round draft pick, but his contribution to actual Ohio State success is actually like moderately minimal.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, he just never. He never got to. He played Akron, Western Michigan, Marshall, Michigan State in Iowa and then got hurt against Oregon. He was third team all Big Ten by the media in 2024 and I think would have been first team had he finished up the year in 2025. The other first team tackles in the Big Ten were Carter Smith, an Indiana good player and then JC Davis and Jennings Dunker split. The coaches in the media I think would have just probably swept both of them by himself. Okay. I've been first email pick 10 and in consideration to be an all American in 2024. I think I got hurt.

[Doug Lesmerises]

All right, so I'll give my nine and this is.

[Bill Landis]

I'm gonna.

[Doug Lesmerises]

This is this See if you can guess who it is based on this.

[Bill Landis]

Okay.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Okay. I'm kicking my foot in the air. Imagine that foot going right into a guy's chest. Trey Sermon. Okay. I actually his way down the field.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, it's hard like so I didn't have him on my. On my. In my top 10 but it's hard to. He was a maniac against Northwestern and against Clemson and then he unfortunately got hurt against Alabama and it's like well, I don't know what they're going to do now. And the answer was lose by a lot.

[Doug Lesmerises]

I don't know. Like do they get. If he like if he. I was out again. Like I'm. I was Trey sermon. I was like Trace only was good and he was only good at Oklahoma gets bad teams. Like I was just like what are they doing? This is desperation. This is grasping. This is not an answer. And then he did nothing the whole year. And I was like, see, I'm a genius. And then he said, ohio State, single season, single game, rushing record. And, like, looked at the camera with his eyeballs and turned into a meme and it was like, oh, I was wrong until I was right until I was devastatingly wrong. And this guy was a maniac. Do they reach the national championship game in 2020 if he doesn't show up at Ohio State? If he's not on the roster.

[Bill Landis]

Probably, but potentially not. Because I do think the Clemson game gets, I think, more remembered for the bombs from like Justin Fields to Chris Olave and Jameson Williams and not the fact that Trey Sermon had almost 200 rushing. Yeah, so. So maybe not. Here's his buy buy game in 2020. 11 for 48 against Nebraska, 13 for 56 against Penn State, 12 for 68 against Rutgers, 9 for 60 against Indiana. And then we start to get an uptick. 10 for 112 against Michigan State. That was the game at Michigan State where Ohio State's entire offensive line got contact traced out of the game. And then Big Ten championship. 29 for 331 yards against Clemson, 31 for 193. And then he had one carry for two yards against, against Alabama. And I think broke his color row.

[Doug Lesmerises]

So, yeah, I mean, like, I, so I, I thought he, I thought he deserved to be on here. So he's my number nine.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, that's. No, that's good. He's probably more deserving than my number nine is Seth McLaughlin. Okay, again, like a similar conversation to Josh Simmons, right? Like, you got more out of Seth McLaughlin than you did Josh Simmons, but you still didn't have Seth for the championship push. But also he won the Remington trophy. It's just like, can you really have a guy? Can you leave him off the list? When he won the Remington Trophy and another, like, people thought he was done, right? People thought Alabama kicked him to the curb and he was a terrible player. He wasn't going to do anything. And Ohio State brought him in and he resurrected his career until he hurt his Achilles and missed the last, whatever, six games of the year.

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[Doug Lesmerises]

So he was not on my list, but I think this is informative. The first four guys we're talking about are not like, oh, wow, what great portal grabs. It was like, I don't know.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

And then it worked out in. In varying degrees. Like an Oklahoma kind of backup running back who had kind of lost his job. A Notre Dame guy who's changing positions in Alabama center who like kind of left in disgrace because he couldn't get a snap to the quarterback in the bowl game. And then a Mountain west guy who was flipping from the right side to the left side. It's like, yeah, they're among the 10 best Ohio State transfers over the last six years. It's crazy to think about. Which is just a reminder as you evaluate what is a gigantic Ohio State incoming transfer class this year, that there's going to be somebody out there that you might be kind of mid on at the moment who has a chance to make an impact.

[Bill Landis]

I think I misspoke. I'm going back through my list. I think I messed something up because I said I had Lorenzo Styles at 9 and Seth O'. Clock.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Oh, oh, right. Okay. Well, they're both in there. They're both good to talk about.

[Bill Landis]

I think I forgot to put a six and I have two nines.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Oh, okay, that's fine.

[Bill Landis]

So let me. I'm gonna go back through my list and. And correct it.

[Doug Lesmerises]

So you have Josh Simmons at 10 and then you have Styles and. Or McLaughlin at 9.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. Okay, I'll go Styles, 9, McLaughlin 8. Okay.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Okay. All right. That's all right. Sorry. Well, we changed. I changed it from top 5 to top 10 on you in the middle of the show. So my 10 is Lorenzo Styles, my nine is Trey Sermon, my eight is Will Kazmarick. Did he make your list?

[Bill Landis]

He's seven for me.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah. Okay. And I just thought again and. And whether this works out. What's the guy. Why, who's the Ohio. Mason Williams. No.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Like Will Kazmark just was Was decent like in year one and then in year two. Was quite a good football player and. And got hurt in year one or maybe could have even shown more of that, but very clearly that he was a Mac player who was capable of playing at a, a top 10 program in the country. And there's a little bit of a conversation. There's like another guy that I'm going to end up talking about later that like there's some moving parts at this position but he really helped them for two years. And one year it was with G. Scott, one year it was with Max Claire. But in terms of again, what would they have done without him? They might have been in a little bit of a bind if they didn't have Matt Will Casmarik on the roster the last two years.

[Bill Landis]

I think definitely this past season because they just didn't like Max Claire was not going to be your number one blocking tight end. Right. So. And I don't know that there was anybody else in that room. We were like, yep, that guy's ready to be our every down in line blocking tight end. And Will cast Merrick, I think well. And even in 24, I think that was like G. Scott kind of had to pick up that mantle and I think did okay. But that wasn't the ideal usage I think for, for a guy like G. Scott. They just sort of made it work. No, I think Will was definitely like unsung but important and also I think just had like a really good Senior bowl too. People were pretty impressed with him down to Mobile. So like he's. I think he's gonna have a pretty nice pro career because he's just like a pretty reliable blocker at the tight end position. He's not flashy at all, but sort of did exactly what they brought him in here to do.

[Doug Lesmerises]

I mean if Luke Farrell could have a solid NFL career, can Will Kazmark have a solid NFL career?

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I think it's a good comparison.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah. So my 10, nine, eight, seven. Lorenzo Styles, Trey Sermon, Will Kazmark, Josh Simmons. You're 10, nine, eight, seven Josh Simmons, Lorenzo Styles, Seth McLaughlin, Will Kazmarick. So we're up to number six for both of us. Who's your six?

[Bill Landis]

Jonah Jackson.

[Doug Lesmerises]

He is also my six.

[Bill Landis]

Really good player, nasty guard.

[Doug Lesmerises]

And excellent.

[Bill Landis]

NFL player and yeah, turn into a great pro. But like that offense we were, we were kicking around Gardapalooza earlier in the. That was like the Billy Price Pat Elf line days.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

And then, but then I, you and I Were not working together at the time in 2019. But I was definitely like back in gardapalooza mode in 2019 with Jonah Jackson and Wyatt Davis playing next to or playing on either side of Josh Fryer. And I think, like, I wrote a pretty big. Josh Myers. Yeah, like I wrote a pretty big story. Did I say Josh Fryer? Yeah, sorry. Josh Myers. I wrote a pretty big story. Like off of what bull was that? Fiesta bowl media day at the Athletic about the three guys in the middle of Ohio State's offensive line who make this offense go. And clearly Jonah Jackson was a big part of that.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah, Gardapalooza. We keep like, we've never really done it then. Right. But it's the idea of like athletic guards who can get out and pull, but physical, like in the straight ahead run game and pass protect and just like dancing Bears. Right. Like big, physical, athletic guards are just worth their weight in gold.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

And we still might do it someday.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, we can. You can do it. Maybe we'll do it. Maybe we'll do it this year. Depends on. We have to let the guard play speak to us, I think. Yes. Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

You can't force it. We can't force guard play. We just have to let it come to us. So we both have Jonah Jackson, 6 and again he came in right. That was 2019. That was, as you just said, that was Ryan Day's first year as this guy who was a good player. That was still when the portal was sort of like, Ah, the portal. That wasn't even the portal. It was just like transfers. Hey, sometimes you get transfers. 2019. What's going on with transfers? Well, Joe Burrow, he was at Ohio State once upon a time and he's leading LSU the national championship and Justin Fields this year. But also Jonah Jackson was here and it was just like much more of a one off. Like, man, I didn't. I sort of like, it was more like, I didn't know you could do that. It's like, what just happened? Ohio State just went and got Rutgers best player, started him on the offensive line and he was all Big Ten and then a third round draft pick in the NFL. Wow, that was kind of easy. And now it happens a million times a year in college football. In and out for everybody. But back then, it was still kind of unusual, at least at Ohio State.

[Bill Landis]

Do you know how much money Jonah Jackson's made?

[Doug Lesmerises]

$40 million.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. $41 million.

[Doug Lesmerises]

What a lovely story. Yeah. Worked out for everybody. So like, just like an excellent football player just Good at football. Good at football.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

All right. I'll give you my number five. And so I actually think. So we're not putting Julian Stand in our top five. I'm. I'm glad we did ten instead of five because I, I don't know if we're gonna have the exact same top five. We might, but I think like, we're, we're starting to get to like, kind of a different level of transfer here of like splashier, like bang, new era. This is what it's all about. My 5 is quinch on Judkins.

[Bill Landis]

Okay. So I was gonna say, I think, I think the top three are kind of indisputable. And four and five, I think are. It's two guys. It's a matter of what order you prefer to put them in. So five for me is Will Howard.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Okay? We're. Okay. Let's have the Judkins conversation first. Where do you have Judkins?

[Bill Landis]

4.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Okay. I have him. 5. Would they have won the national championship in 2024 without Quinchon Judkins if they had just had to ride trivia on Henderson the whole.

[Bill Landis]

No, I don't think. I don't think so. No. I don't think they are. They were like deadly efficient in the red zone and I don't think they would have been without Quinchon Judkins.

[Doug Lesmerises]

You think it is so it is. It is it both. That it's a two headed monster, that you keep those guys fresh, that they're both high level players who were drafted in the second round of the NFL draft, but also they are complementary to each other. Judkins physicality near the goal line complements Trey's lightning speed. That it's. It was two of them, but it was also like almost exactly what you're looking for in terms of guys playing off each other.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I think, and I don't, I can't recall, I think I probably thought that when they brought Quinchan in to play with Trey. I just like, for all of Trayvon's strengths, I don't, I don't think he has quite everything he needs to be the number one running back for any team. That's like trying to go the distance. Right. And I think people are even having that conversation in the NFL right now. It says like, role is tapering off a little bit for the Patriots because he, he is explosive, he's fast as heck. But like the, you know, the division conversation has followed him into the NFL too. And Quinn, Sean just like really helped balance that Out. It's, you know, I, I liked watching Travion, but also, like, when you, when you need to get three. I think Quinton Sean is like kind of the more reliable guy in that scenario. And that's. That's what he brought to the table. And in 2024. Okay. And he was still explosive. Like, he had some long runs. Definitely. Yeah, he was a little bit, I think, more of a complete back than Travion.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah. Okay. All right. So I had Judkins five, You had Judkins four. You have Will Howard five. Yeah, I have Will Howard three.

[Bill Landis]

Okay.

[Doug Lesmerises]

So I thought this is. Now this becomes like a. Briefly for like 15 minutes. Like a Will Howard podcast in a way that we. I'm always careful about. I'm not always careful. I need to be more careful sometimes of like, this is not what I actually mean. It's just what I'm saying. How many different quarterbacks could Ohio State have won the national championship with in 2024? And. And I guess I have two separate questions. One is all the quarterbacks in College Football in 2024, if you just take out Will Howard and put that quarterback on the Ohio State team instead, would Ohio State still have won the national championship? And then how many of the actual guys that they could have gotten that were available in the transfer portal could they have put in and won the national championship with in 2024? And this is where I think it becomes an exercise that has a chance to unintentionally downplay the impact of Will. But it. If you have him five, this must be part of your thinking a little bit, because he's a national championship quarterback. Well, how is it not like at the top, like number two or whatever? Right. But is it part of that? Like, well, would. Could they have done it without him?

[Bill Landis]

I think they could have done it with a couple of other quarterbacks, certainly. I don't. I don't think it's a situation where like, well, you could put any old quarterback in there and they would have won a national title. Because there's a couple of things. Like, one, if you watch Willow, Kansas State, and you watch him at Ohio State, he does look like a. A fairly dramatically improved player, but also was like, well, he's coming to Ohio State to improve his draft stock. We think he's going to be a fourth or a fifth round pick, and if he comes to Ohio State, he's going to elevate. And it's like, well, he went sixth in the sixth round. So, like that, like that, that he's he is a sort of like is what he is kind of guy, but he's got like a, an emotional quality to him too, that I think definitely mattered for Ohio State. Like, I don't know. The job is not cut out for everybody and, and I think, or not everybody's cut out for the job. I guess I should say.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Like.

[Bill Landis]

And he definitely quickly assimilated into what it means to be an Ohio State quarterback and all of the attention that comes with that because he was just like an old mature dude who had been through the fire and just like kind of wasn't phased by anything. And I think that definitely mattered. But I also think, like, maybe some other older quarterbacks could have done something similar. So it's not like he, he was, he was a very important part of Ohio State's national championship season. He wasn't the engine of it for me. And I think because of that, I, I don't have him maybe as high as some other people would, but I also think if. I think the highest he could be on this list is three.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Okay.

[Bill Landis]

If you want to have them. Three, four, five. I don't think I'd argue with you if you wanted to have them one or two, I would because I think there's clear top two.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Okay.

[Bill Landis]

But yeah, like three, three, four, five. National title winning quarterback. Definitely had the juice. Emotional leader, like, put his body on the line sometimes. People love him. Music, like, good personality. Like, I was actually just at a, I was at a baseball card show over the weekend and Will Howard was there signing autographs. Like, the line for that dude to get his autograph was ridiculous. So like, people, people love him and he's a legend in Ohio forever.

[Doug Lesmerises]

It is. And it's like that. There were like 15 engines to that 20, 24 national championship. And it's not, it's like I, I don't even know because I think like we always talked about that then like to have that senior group of Ohio State players who stayed. But then also probably they're the two best players on the team were a true freshman and a sophomore transfer and Jeremiah Smith and Caleb Downs. But then also they added the quarterback and also they added a running back. Right, but. So I don't want to make it sound that like Will Howard wasn't hugely important, but he, he just didn't need to be Joe Burrow. Even though, like LSU was super important, like Joe Burrow, like, it was just, you know, Jack Sawyer was so important and Mecca Buka was so important. Trevor Henderson was so important. Like, they had so many good players and JT2 more level was so important. You just needed somebody who didn't mess it up. Fit in, led, played tough, made some key throws, but like, he didn't have to be perfect. Right?

[Bill Landis]

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[Doug Lesmerises]

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[Doug Lesmerises]

Let's play this game briefly, because why not? Let's make Ohio State fans mad. Like, what if, like that quarterbacks who would have been better than Will Howard? This is pointless. But also, it's an off season football podcast. If it was Cam Ward instead of Will Howard, would they. Would they have won the national title? Yeah, Cam Ward, who transferred from Washington State to Miami, number one pick in the draft, probably would have worked out. I'm only. I'm kind of leaning on like, veteran guys because they weren't gonna like, get Aiden Chiles or Dante Moore to come in and like, be the guy for the quarterback for that team. Riley Leonard, who went to Notre Dame and play. Played against Ohio State, the national championship game. Could he have done it?

[Bill Landis]

I think no, he's not a good enough thrower.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Could Dylan. Dylan Gabriel have done it? Who went to Oregon?

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I could. I could see that. Yeah, I don't know that I would if it. If it's a question of like, who would you rather have Will Howard or Dylan Gabriel? I think I would take Will Howard. But could the Ohio State have won a national title with Dylan Gabriel that year? Yes.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Could DJ Uyungalalay have done it?

[Bill Landis]

No, not a good enough thrower.

[Doug Lesmerises]

But I wonder like, could a. Would Ohio State have elevated dj?

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, maybe that's a similar conversation. Yeah, similar conversation. Will Howard.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah. Not the Django who actually existed in college football, but if he had gotten right, if they had worked their magic on him, could Will Rogers, who went from Mississippi State to Washington, have done it?

[Bill Landis]

Probably not.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Could Brendan Sorsby, who is now getting a gazillion dollars at Texas Tech, but who at that point was transferring from Indiana to Cincinnati, had played at Cincinnati, had played at Indiana. Could he have done it? He's a similar. Like that's. He's experienced as Will Howard, but it's not a bad comparison.

[Bill Landis]

I think the skill sets, like, are actually pretty similar. I would say no, just because of the inexperience part of it. Like, I don't think he would have walked into the position as comfortably as Will did, but I think in terms of what you got on the field, it could have been similar.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Could Max Brosmer have done it? If Ryan Day had been like, I got a quarterback for you guys. He's from New Hampshire. They call him the modern day Ryan Day. Max Brosmer was the New Hampshire quarterback, was like the best player in FCS and went to Minnesota and was pretty darn good and is the backup quarterback for the Vikings right now. He's an NFL quarterback. He's actually more of an NFL quarterback than Will Howard is, actually. Because Will Howard's the third string guy in Pittsburgh. Max Brosmer is legit the number two guy in Minnesota. Could they have won the national title with Max Brosmer?

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, maybe. Yeah, maybe.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Curtis Rourke, Mac transfer, went to Indiana, second team, all Big Ten. Could he have gotten it done at Ohio State? Indiana, the playoff?

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, maybe. The only thing that gives me a little bit of hesitancy is like, is Rourke had a lot of the, like, athletic ability stepped out of him via injuries that I don't know if he would have had the same impact in the run game that Will Howard had.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah. So I don't even know what the point is of this. So anyway, it is not to downplay Will Howard, but I think it is because it's funny if, if Kyle McCord had transferred from Louisville to Syracuse and then did what he did at Syracuse, I'd be putting Kyle McCord out there. And you might be saying, yeah, yeah, I think. And it's like, well, no, the whole point was they didn't think he was good enough. But you go by what he did at Syracuse, right? Is that what we're going by? Right?

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Like it's, it's hard. So I do think, I think the Point of this is that in the portal, sometimes you're not looking for perfection, but I do. You are. And I don't even know if fit is the right word because it's not fit that like we do a specific thing and therefore you have to do what we do. But it's more fit. Like, are you able to come in and be part of what this is? And I think Will Howard is a glowing example of that, that Ohio State is Ohio State. And he had been successful at a pretty darn good program like Kansas State. But then he came in and Buckeyed himself like a maniac and now is an Ohio State legend, of course, because he won, but also because in a very short period of time, I think to both his teammates and his coaches and the fan base came to embody what it means to play football at Ohio State. Like as much as you could for a one year guy. And like almost as much as Travion Henderson or a Mecca Buka or JT Tui Molo or Jack Sawyer would embody it, which is ridiculous to think about when those guys did it for four years and he did it to. For one. And that is an incredible compliment to Will Howard and Ohio State's ability to assimilate somebody very quickly.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. And I think he. All that's true. And I.

[Doug Lesmerises]

And I.

[Bill Landis]

He also, like, he was pretty dialed in the playoff too. Like he, I think throughout the much of the regular season in 2024, you sort of saw like Will Howard's limitations from time to time. Just be like, he's good, he's a good fit here. He's not C.J. stroud. Right. Like in terms of just like pure throwing ability. But then he got to the postseason and he took it up a couple of notches, especially like in the Tennessee and Oregon games and then had some like, you know, he ran for 57 yards in the national championship against Notre Dame.

[Doug Lesmerises]

And it.

[Bill Landis]

I'm actually surprised. I thought he had rushing touchdowns in the playoff. I guess he didn't. But he ended up with eight touchdowns and two picks in those four games and like completed 80 of his passes and threw two touchdowns and ran for 57 yards in the national title game. It's not like he was merely along for the ride. But I also think like you would, you would ascribe I think some of the success to a couple of other guys maybe before he got to Will Howard. And I think maybe it's like the only point. But it's not like, whatever. If there's A list of 32 people who are most influential to Ohio State's national championship. It's not like will Howard's number 30, but he's maybe like number eight, which is like, yeah, not a bad place to be, but that's why I have him fifth.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Do you think the wrong quarterback could have screwed it up?

[Bill Landis]

Yes. Yeah, I definitely think that. Yeah, I do think it's similar to me because like Craig Krenzel is like not revered for being this awesome quarterback. Right. But he's revered for being kind of like the right guy for that team to win a national title. And I think Will Howard is in a very similar spot.

[Doug Lesmerises]

That's a good comparison. Okay, year five is Howard. Your four is Judkins, who's your three?

[Bill Landis]

Davis Nigben.

[Doug Lesmerises]

He's my four.

[Bill Landis]

Okay.

[Doug Lesmerises]

What do you think about igb?

[Bill Landis]

I just like, can't dismiss what Ryan said about him. Right. Like culture, culture changer in Ohio State's cornerback room that was lost in the wilderness for like three years. Like trying, trying to get its mojo back after 2019. And like Denzel Burke certainly gave you a spark as a freshman, but I think now with like the benefit of time, people involved in that would, would give more credit probably to Davis, Nick Benosin for, for bringing that swagger back to Ohio State's cornerback room. And there's a chance for that to be like kind of an enduring thing after he's gone. So like, he wasn't an all American, he wasn't a championship winning quarterback, but he is pretty darn influential at his position, I think, in terms of what the standard is for, for quality play and like being a on field emotional sort of like bellwether for the defense.

[Doug Lesmerises]

And this is so different than many other transfers that he played. He started at Ole Miss as a true freshman and then came and started at Ohio State for three years. So part of this is like, we're getting three years out of this guy. You got Will Howard, I'm sure that you had, you have IGB over Will Howard, for instance, over Quinton Judkin. The fact you got three years out of him instead of one must factor into your ranking.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, yeah. Yes, it does.

[Doug Lesmerises]

But also like this, like, I don't even. This I'm not sure is applicable or I'm curious how it would be applicable of like, let's look for northern kids who are young and starting somewhere who we can just steal, who are good but aren't superstars yet. Maybe aren't even sure things. I, I don't know that you knew for sure. It's like, all right, well, he started at Ole Miss. Are you. Are you sure he's going to be a starter? Ohio State? Like, he certainly could be. But, like, this is. It's so effective. But this seems hard to do to me. And like, this is. I don't know. Is there anybody in the current incoming class who would fit something like this? Because for, you know, a great. Dominic Kelly from Georgia is a young guy in the secondary, but he didn't start for a year. Georgia. There's still a little bit of a dice roll with him. IGB was young, but also, you knew what you were getting. But also, he turned out even better than I thought you were getting. Like, this seems like a hard one to replicate.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I think it's. It's not a. It's not a bad blueprint to, like, to keep an eye out for, I guess, but I do. But I do think it could be hard to replicate because he, like, I just, like, I don't know anything about him when I got him.

[Doug Lesmerises]

No, like.

[Bill Landis]

Like, it wasn't like. Because he wasn't even a guy that, like, they were in on and recruiting and lost to Ole Miss and then like, circled back a year later. Like, we've seen happen with some guys more recently, right? Like, this was kind of out of the blue, like this kid from New Jersey who started as a freshman for Ole Miss. It's like, they need corner help. We're gonna go get this guy. It's like, all right. And like, I. Frank, like, you know, he had the penalty stuff, but it was like a fine player, I think, like, not. Not a bad player, not a liability. Wasn't setting the world on fire necessarily. It was just like, sort of solid. But then like middle of 20, 24 and definitely into this year, like, the way people talked about him was just like, you know, you don't hear it that much, especially for Trans. So he's like. He holds a pretty high station, I think, like, the coaching staff, right? The people who are in the building with these guys every day who watch sort of like how they set the tone with their work ethic and how they carry themselves on and off the field. And I would imagine if you said the Ryan Day, like, hey, every transfer you bring in is going to hit, like, Davis, Nick Benosin, he might. He's like, okay, sign me up.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah, yeah. No, for real. So you're 543 is Howard Judkins, Igbignosan? Yeah, my 543 is Judkins, Igbignos and Howard. Which leads us to your number two, Justin Fields. Same for me.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

And if they had won a national championship, he might be number one. Because this is. And this is like, I don't feel right. We're not putting Julian saying on this list just because he never actually played a season at Alabama. Justin Fields played a season at Georgia and was the backup quarterback. Was the wrinkle quarterback and is like a miracle. And this was the whole thing again of. Of even back then that you were supposed to still. Right. Like, sit out. Yeah. You had a reason. He got a waiver. Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

So how different, because this is like playing the game of, like, what if he didn't come to Ohio State?

[Bill Landis]

Sets the tone for Ryan Day's entire tenure, right? Because it's like he had, like, Dwayne Haskins was great, and Ryan Day to that point, had unquestionably made J.T. barrett a better player than he was before Ryan Day's arrival. Had a great year with Dwayne Askins, but, like, inherited both guys, right? So it's like, okay, like, what's. What do you. What do you got now that you're the head coach? And it's like, I got Justin Fields coming here because he believes in me and believes in this offense. And by the way, no hiccups. He's gonna hit the ground running and just be like a top five quarterback in the sport. Immediately upon arriving here when Georgia fans are doing nothing but saying, like, this guy stinks. He's not going to pan out. He's a bust. He throws interceptions in practice. It's like, nope. Heisman finalist.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yep. It is one of those. I. I think I remember thinking about this, like, back then, and I think we have an answer to some degree on it now. It's. Is it more that. That Justin Fields made Ryan Day or that Ryan Day made Justin Fields? And as much as Justin Fields set the tone for this, I also think you can look. And it just hasn't gone perfectly in the nf, Right. I mean, it actually has not gone very well. Like, he's had multiple opportunities, and this is like, three NFL teams where it kind of hasn't worked out, where he has not been the answer as a starting quarterback. And I do think this is one of those which, like, I think even, like, elevates Ryan Day a little bit, that Ohio State, this program, Ryan Day as a coach, this offense created a scenario for Justin Fields to thrive, and he has not thrived in the same way in the NFL.

[Bill Landis]

He is not also. But it's very fun. Like, I. We were. Look, I looked up Jodo Jackson's career earnings. $41 million. Justin Fields, who everyone thinks is a bust. $38 million.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Landis]

Nice. Nice to be a first round pick.

[Doug Lesmerises]

I don't want to step on the biggest transfer portal losses of the Ryan Day era, but I do want to ask you this question. Could Ohio State have been good in 2019 with Tate Martell as a starting quarterback?

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, there's. I think I've always thought there was a version of a good offense they could build with Tate at quarterback. It's not as good as the one they built with Justin, but yeah, I think they could. I don't know that they would have gotten to the playoff and been undefeated until they played Clemson, but good.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Sure, because it got away from Tate, obviously. Is he one of your top three guys that they lost? We're doing top three out in transfers.

[Bill Landis]

All right.

[Doug Lesmerises]

So I don't have to. I don't have to save the Tate Martel conversation. Never.

[Bill Landis]

Never crossed my mind, honestly.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Okay.

[Bill Landis]

Not even written down.

[Doug Lesmerises]

It at least crossed my mind, even if in ironic or joking fashion. How dare you? How dare you, sir. Justin Fields didn't have to come here. Justin Fields could have gone somewhere else. Georgia could have just been like, dude, you're the starter. We're gonna throw Jake from. Or whoever it was. Right. Jake from. Tell him to leave. Like, you're the. We're not letting you go. And then I. I mean, I do think that Ryan Day had just probably decided that he didn't think Tate Martell was good enough, which is why he was so enthusiastically, the moment he became the head coach, going to. To find Justin Fields. I don't know who else there would have been defined. You might have had, like, Tate Martel was the only answer. I mean, like, what were they gonna. They would have had. Who do they have? Emory Jones and. Because they had a guy coming in, another guy, though, who is the. Who is the recruit that decommitted then once they signed Fields and that flipped this somewhere else on signing day.

[Bill Landis]

But Emery, was it Dwan Mathis?

[Doug Lesmerises]

Duan Mathis. Like Emory Jones and Duan Mathis, I think were the answers. The other answers if they didn't want Tate Martel. So it might have been that Tate Martel would have been their best option in the end for the first year of Ryan Day. And then like, it's like, oh, yeah, well, they try to get that Justin Fields guy, but he just is the starter at Georgia. And then here we go with the Tate. Like Tate Martel's career fell apart. But could it have been decent at Ohio State and that like once he left and went to Miami, like was it, was he not good enough to be a starting quarterback at a major college power. Or did everything just get loose when you start going in the portal and you're going to Miami and you're going to UNLV and stuff happened and just got away from him?

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I mean like some combination of both, I guess. Like just clearly not what Ryan Day was looking for at quarterback. Small, you know.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

Runner. A chaos like baked and baked into the equation. I think a little bit in a way that Ryan Day just was like, I don't, I don't want that. Yeah. And he didn't. And you know, if Ryan Day was calling the shots, I just, I don't think Ohio State would ever, ever brought him in. But Urban Meyer like them because he never lost a high school game.

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[Doug Lesmerises]

All right, so who's number one.

[Bill Landis]

Killer down some.

[Doug Lesmerises]

And that's one of those like, well, how could you be if Justin Fields is sort of the man who defined the Ryan Day era and what it was going to be and set the tone for everything. It's like how can you top that and it's be the best defensive player in college football for two years and win a national championship? I guess. Like that. Like that.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

It is a high threshold to be above, to be above Justin Fields on a transfer list like this. But Caleb Downs hit it multi time.

[Bill Landis]

Right, unanimous all American. Yeah. Two time unanimous all American. Thorpe award winner, lot trophy award winner, national champion. I'm just reading his accolades. Two time Big Ten defensive back of the year, Big Ten defensive player of the year. And like a Mount Rushmore guy at his position at Ohio State too.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yes.

[Bill Landis]

Right. Like, I don't. Yeah, I think he's, he's the clear number one. Had Justin Fields won a national title then we're having a conversation, I think. But like short, short of that, it's like it's clearly Caleb Downs.

[Doug Lesmerises]

So that's an awesome top five. I don't know. I don't know that anybody in the 2026 transfer class could get in the top five. Terry Moore at safety or Oral Little at, at. At nickel safety or John Walker at defensive tackle or Christian Allegro at linebacker or like that's not what we're talking about. I do think they. Because there's such a clear top five and we had the same top five and we basically had the same six through 10. We had one different. But yeah, Caleb, Justin Fields, Davison, Quinchon, Judkins and Will Howard as a top five. I, I don't think anyone's busted through that.

[Bill Landis]

No, I don't think so. I think it's also tough too like Fields and Downs. Multiple years, right? Igbo? No, multiple years. And then the other guys have national championship rings. Like I think the idea of like Dominic Kelly is interesting to me in this, in this class. Like if he's. He did not have the same freshman year that Inkmanosin had, but if his Ohio State career is similar, maybe it will be. I think maybe you could have a conversation about him. They think he's going to be really good. And I know Georgia was upset to lose a young corner who could be a multi year starter and there are a couple other guys they brought in that have multiple years of eligibility left. But I just. Yeah, it's a really tough bar to clear I think to, to unseat any of these top five.

[Doug Lesmerises]

But I do think that next group, the six guys we mentioned, then after that, Jonah Jackson, Will Kazmark Josh Simmons, Trey Sermon, Lorenzo stiles and Seth McLaughlin. Like the idea that John Walker, two year defensive tackle from UCF like could come in and just be like a really good solid starter defensive tackle for a couple years, maybe be in the mix for all Big Ten, that kind of thing. I, I think he could, something like that would be there if Koi Roussa really is a impactful like edge guy who can do some different things or you know, if Terry Moore is like an all Big Ten level safety or like that kind of like I don't think it's impossible but I think it's a, it's a reminder and I think people know this but like and that Caleb Downs, Will Howard and Quinton Judkins were all the same transfer class for Ohio State. Like that is not the threshold, that is not the standard, that is not the expectation. But can you find Will Kazmarics and guys like Lorenzo Styles and Jonah Jackson and Seth McLaughlin who are going to help you win? Absolutely. And I think those are the names that people should be thinking about for comparison when you think about these transfers in 2026.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I could see, I could see a couple of these guys elevating into that stratosphere for sure. I like Terry Moore is like a really interesting player, right. If he's healthy. He's a guy who was second team all acc, like one of the best players at his position in the country two years ago. So why, why can't he refine that form, rediscover that form at Ohio State if he's healthy. Right. So there's, there's a, there's a chance. But yeah, unless Ohio is going to win a national title this year, which maybe they will, then we can revisit this conversation. But you know, short of that, I think it'll be hard to get to the top, the top tier.

[Doug Lesmerises]

All right, let's run through the the three biggest portal losses of the Ryan Day era. And I really did try to think of this as like how it affected Ohio State a little less of how good did the guy go on to be. And this is basically Jameson Williams conversation. The Jameson Williams is awesome. He would not have been on the field for Ohio State that we're talking about this 2021 season when they had Jackson Smith and Jigba, Garrett Wilson and Chris Olave. Jameson Williams was, was out being a thousand yard receiver for Alabama in 2021, but Ohio State did not miss him. So I don't have him in my top three. Yes, he's probably the best player. But I think the impact on Ohio State was negligible. That they lost him. Like, actually not even Necklace was zero. There was. There was. Congratulations to Alabama. It had zero effect on Ohio State that they didn't have him.

[Bill Landis]

I think that's right. But I. I don't know that there are many guys you could point to that like, had a. That would have had a dramatic impact had they played for Ohio State. I think they're a couple, but.

[Doug Lesmerises]

But like, this is. Again, it's like they. I don't know if it's luck. I don't know if it's like a sign of strength for Ohio State. Like, they just. This is one of those. When you think about. I think I have six guys written down who could get on this top three list of the biggest Ohio State transfer losses. I think from 2026 for him. Delane Jarquez Carter, Quincy Porter, Mylan Graham, Aaron Scott and Bryce west all could crack this top three. Because so far the impact of guys they have lost in the transfer portal has been so minimal.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I think that's right. Yeah. Like, that's not. It's just a talk about, like thresholds. Like, to crack the top five best is super high. To crack the top three sort of like biggest losses, it's practically the bar is like, have a good season.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

It's not. There's not. There's not. There's not really a whole lot else that you, I don't know, feel some type of way about them not being on Ohio State. I think there are a couple guys, but nobody became like a superstar.

[Doug Lesmerises]

All right. So I'm not saying that like you can't have. It wouldn't be make sense to have Jameson Williams in your top three. I don't. Who's your third?

[Bill Landis]

I didn't rank them. I just. I will say. Jesse Mirko.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Oh, speak to it. He wasn't. I didn't even think about him. Lost punter. The lost punter of Vanderbilt. Was he in a Vanderbilt team this year?

[Bill Landis]

No, he was. So 20. 2024 was his last year. He was second team. He's just like a better punter than Joe McGuire. And it was like, like Ohio State won the national title in 2024. So it's like, whatever. But like had they kept Jesse Mirko, they would have had a better punter than they had in 2024. And then like, who knows, maybe that sets someone, of course, to have a better punter this year because they're not running back Joe McGuire. Which they're doing in 2026. So he was like pretty solid when he was at Ohio State. And I don't know the backstory, frankly, of why he left, but then when he went to Vanderbilt, he was good.

[Doug Lesmerises]

I think the backstory was they fired Parker Fleming and he was like, I'm out of here.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, maybe.

[Doug Lesmerises]

All right, good pull by you, man. The disparity between these lists, it's like, all right, now that we finished our Caleb Downs, Justin Fields conversation, let's continue with the Jesse Miracle conversations. One of these things is not like the other. Number three on my list is Ryan Jacoby.

[Bill Landis]

Okay.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Offensive lineman. Started at Pitt in 2024, transferred to Pitt in 2021. So he was at Ohio State in 19 and 20, redshirted in 19, didn't play in 20, and then was at Pitt for four. So he was a six year college player. In his sixth year at Pitt in 2024, he won a starting job. Now, he might have won a starting job in 2023, but he got hurt in August camp. It was out for the whole year. And this is just like as those things were happening in 2024 for Ohio State and they were calling on Carson Hinsman and Austin Saravel and Tiger Chabola was playing. It's like, I think Ryan Jacoby could have been an answer at maybe one of the guard spots when they were putting Luke Montgomery in. Right. They were putting younger guys in. And if. If Ryan Jacoby was still on the team as a sixth year guy in 2024, I think he would have wound up starting at some point somewhere.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's probably right. He wasn't like a. He was more like of a serviceable level guard. But I think when Ohio State was scrambling in 2024, they would have welcomed that.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Right.

[Bill Landis]

They figured it out. So it's like, how. How big of a loss was it?

[Doug Lesmerises]

I don't know.

[Bill Landis]

But yeah, it would have been. It would have been nice to have like some veteran help to turn to, which I didn't really have that year.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah. All right, who's your second guy?

[Bill Landis]

This is maybe another one that's a little off the board. Mitchell Milton.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Oh, not on my list. Go ahead.

[Bill Landis]

1. Well, he's taken on legendary status because he was the man who spoke truth to power. Right. To Ryan. Day after the Michigan loss in 2024 is detailed in Bill Rabino was his book. But I also thought that, like, Melton was a pretty, like. I think you could see it coming along for him, right? Like A pretty good backup defensive end. And then he played at Virginia this year and he had 53 pressures. He had more. That was more than anybody on Ohio State's team had. He had 10 tackles for lost. He had five sacks, like, I just think. And Virginia was good, and Virginia was a decent team. And it's like, who would I have rather had as Bo Atkinson or Mitchell Melton? Mitchell Melton, without a doubt.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah. So that's good.

[Bill Landis]

It's not like a make or break thing, but I think there were guys playing snaps for Ohio State last year who weren't as good as him.

[Doug Lesmerises]

No, I, I, that's a good poll. I did not even consider him. I actually did not realize that he was that good this year. Did you know for sure that he was that good this year? Did you just have to happen?

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I knew. I knew he was playing well. I didn't know the exact numbers. I was surprised to see that he had 53 pressure. So that's a lot.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

Okay.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Number two on my list is Ryan Watts, the cornerback who transferred to Texas after he put. He was a little bit of playing time at Ohio State in 20 and 21 and then transferred to Texas and started there for two years and wound up getting drafted in the NFL. And I don't think he was the, he wasn't the greatest cornerback in the world in 2022 and 2023 when he was starting at Texas, but I think he was pretty decent at a time when Ohio State was kind of, I think, still kind of looking around for corners. It's, it's not a, it's, it's not a trade. But, like, well, they missed, you know, what do they do without Ryan Watts in 2023? It's like, well, they played Davidson, W. Nelson. It's like, okay, well, that was a better trail. Like, I, that's a better trade for Ohio State. You know, it wasn't the same year Watts had left the year before, but Watts was kind of an example as a pretty big recruit. He was kind of in that mix when, like, the defense was a mess in 2020 and 2021. And I think he just kind of got washed out with, like, man, everything's a problem here. Like that. He was here for the two most chaotic years of defense that Ohio State has recent times. Right, right. 2020 and 2021. And then it was like, okay, this guy's out of here. And it's like, oh, then he went and started at Texas for two years and got drafted. And if he just would have Stuck around. I think he would have played and, like, been in the starting mix. And so I think he was a little bit of. He wasn't. I don't think he was great when he was on the field here, but I think he was a little bit of victim, maybe a lot bit a victim of circumstance.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. That was a weird time for the defensive back room, all the coaching turnover. Did he. Yeah, no, I think he would have. You know, if he would have stuck it out, I think he could have blossomed into something pretty good here. Still ended up being a decent player. That's a good point. I didn't have him on my list either.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah. And like, you remember he started the Minnesota.

[Bill Landis]

Minnesota game, right as I was gonna ask. Yeah, I remember. Yeah, he started as a true freshman against Minnesota.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Right. Yeah, so. And like, it didn't go great, you know, but then it's like, well, we've seen, like, young guys have it not go great, and then it's like. Doesn't mean that, like, you can never recover from that. So. All right, who's your number one, the biggest transfer that the Buckeyes wish they still had from the Ryan Day era?

[Bill Landis]

I had Jameson Williams because it just wasn't how good he was. But I think you make it. Make a good point about, like, you know, what was the actual impact of that. So I guess I'll stick with him. But you kind of. I didn't mean to undercut the. No, no, it's fine. Because I think it's a point well made. It's like. But like, I would say, like, none of these guys were. You know, I had some others I considered putting on my list, but I think, like, in terms like who the guy who, like most became a star is unquestionably Jameson Williams.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yes. Right. But can. Yeah, but again, and that's like, that was. It was basically a choice between Jackson, Smith and Jigba and Jameson Williams. And can you imagine if Jackson, Smith and Jigba was at the super bowl right now, saying, man, I love my Bama teammates. Ohio State fans would be going bonkers. Right. Like, that thing is, like, Jameson Williams had a great year at Bama. He really helped them. He's a very high draft pick in the NFL.

[Bill Landis]

He's.

[Doug Lesmerises]

He's helped the Detroit Lions. But I. I don't know that Ohio State fans, like, look at him as, like, the one that got away, you know, like, it would have been.

[Bill Landis]

I think it does come out. I wonder for some people if it comes out as a little bit of A wash, though, because, like, you didn't get 2022. Jackson, Smith and Jigba because of the hamstring injury.

[Doug Lesmerises]

That's true.

[Bill Landis]

So, like, in 2021, they were like, both just kind of star receivers in the sport.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Okay. I think you're gonna say, oh, yeah, for my number one, because my number one is an actual guy that I absolutely think would have started for Ohio State, would have helped Ohio State, and turned out to be an excellent player. And it is primarily circumstance that led him away from Ohio State.

[Bill Landis]

Is it Joe Royer? It is Joe Royer, yeah. I have on my list. Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

So Joe Royer, one of the better tight ends in college football, wound up at Cincinnati, three years at Ohio State. 21, 22, 23. Right. Injury situations. Didn't play more than 50 snaps any of those years. The tragic passing of his mom during his time at Ohio State took some time away from the team and just I think, like, physically, emotionally, mentally, just like, sort of to get a refresh on his career. And then he went to Cincinnati and they stinking love that guy.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

And he's going to be in the NFL draft right now. But I think if. If there's another situation where it works out for Joe Royer at Ohio State, I think he could have been what Will. What G. Scott was in 2024, and then I think they wouldn't have had to go get Max Player, and Joe Royer would have been like. So it's like it would have been Joe Royer and Will Kazmarick the last two years that he would have been your past catching tight end. He's certainly that good. He has that ability. He is an offensive weapon. He was really an offensive weapon for the Bearcats. And I certainly. This is not like Ohio State blew it because it's just a set of, like, tragic circumstances that really derailed his opportunities in Columbus. But this guy's a good football player. He's gonna get drafted for sure. I'll be curious to see who gets drafted higher.

[Bill Landis]

Max, Claire, Joe Royer and Will CAS Merrick.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Like, like all, like. Yes. Yes. Yes.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, no, I. Like, like, especially two years, 2024. Joe Royer was very good. Slightly less productive in 2025, but I do think you're right. I think they still would have had to go out and get a tight end. Like, I think they probably still would have gone out and gotten Casmaric if Royer had stayed. But I think. I think Royer could have filled the G. Scott, like, G. Scott played well for the national title team too. It's not like they were, you know, he kind of actually kind of stepped up in a pretty major way. But I think Royer is a better player. So I probably would rather have Royer in that year as like your number two tight end. And I think probably could have been as impactful as Max Claire was and maybe is like a slightly better blocker, maybe a little more versatile than Max Claire is, which maybe would have changed the offense slightly this year. I don't know. But. But regardless, like he is, I don't know. I think people know, right. Like how, how good he ended up being after he left here. Like, he just really, he really blossomed that maybe he needed to leave to do that, just to, as you said, get the refresh and kind of restart things. But if, if you could have guaranteed that he was going to be for Ohio State what he was for Cincinnati over the last two years, he definitely would have been a major part of why I State's offense.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah, just really good football player. But again, the point so far is that they have not. Ohio State has not been like devastated now. So we didn't count Joe Burrow because Joe Burrow was not in the Ohio State. It's not in the Ryan Day era. Right. But like, I don't think we have to like tell anybody the story of, of Joe Burrow. Joe ROYER Real quick. 20, 24, 50 catches, 522 yards, 2025, 29 catches, 416 yards. Yeah. Andre Turntine went to play safety at Tennessee. Was. Was a guy that I considered a little bit hero. Hero. Canoe going to Texas as a defensive tackle. Jean Tejan Baptiste as a defensive end at Notre Dame for a year helped them more than I maybe thought he would help their name when he left Ohio State. Tate, obviously. Tate. Anyone else that crossed your list?

[Bill Landis]

Evan Pryor.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Oh yeah. Evan Pryor.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Running back.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, especially like, like, I don't. They weren't missing him so much in 2024 when they had Travion and Quinson. But I think like in 2025 prior could have given Ohio State some burst in versatility at running back that they didn't really have. Like, wouldn't have been the lead back, but I think could have been a guy who, you know, did what he did at Cincinnati, which was like get the ball, whatever, a hundred times a year and rip off a couple 50 yard runs. Right. So. And he's actually in Florida now. He's still playing. He transferred the Florida this off season. Oh, I Didn't realize that.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Well, so do Ohio State fans need to prepare themselves for seeing one time Buckeyes make greater impacts at other programs this year? Those six guys that I mentioned early on, maybe, especially if Quincy Porter becomes Notre Dame's number one receiver, if Fahim Delane's running around, if he winds up starting at lsu, J. Carter is starting at Miami, you know, Aaron Scott at Oregon, Bryce west at Wisconsin, like, this is like that. This is just life. But so far, Ohio State and Ohio State fans have sort of skirted by that. Like, even the Jameson, like, there hasn't been a guy. Now they got hit over the head with Burrow. Right. Like, before we were really in this era. It's like, oh, what happened? It's like, well, we got this guy who was a backup quarterback. I just talked about Matthew Della, the Dova all the time, became the Heisman winner, number one pick, and won the national championship. It's like, you guys let him go. So, like, it's. They've actually. They've absorbed the greatest transfer loss in the history of college football. I mean, is Joe Burrow the greatest transfer in college football history? Because Joe Burrow is like, the eighth greatest player in college football history, so I guess he's the greatest transfer.

[Bill Landis]

It's like him and Cam Newton. Yeah, yeah, right.

[Doug Lesmerises]

But Cam Newton had extenuating circumstances that basically, like Florida said, like, all right, get out of here. Joe Burrow was just like, can I be your quarterback? It was like, no, leave. So we're not here to relitigate that. But like, Ohio State fans had that. They, like. Right, we get it. They still love Joe Burrow. They root for Joe, bro. He has a great relationship with his former teammates. Has a relationship with Ohio State still. Right. But like, in. In the Portal era, Ohio State hasn't felt the real sting.

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[Doug Lesmerises]

And they might.

[Bill Landis]

It's just. Yes. It's such a large outgoing transfer class with, I think, some. Some real. Albeit unproven, but. But talent at the top. That it would just be. It would come as a surprise to me if it turns out actually all those guys are bad. It's like, I think. I think maybe one or two stand a chance to live up to the expectations. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Doug Lesmerises]

All right. I mean, meanwhile, Ole Miss is like, remember when we had Davidson and Quinn shot Judkins? Yeah, that was cool, right?

[Bill Landis]

Alabama watching Caleb Downs do it in Columbus and now Julian.

[Doug Lesmerises]

Yeah, yeah. So, all right. That's just. Thanks to Josh M. For that question. We'll keep doing that. We would invite you again. If you want to come join us over on Substack. Bill and Doug osu.substack.com We take questions, we interact, we have a chat, we write stories. We do a big Wednesday show over there for subscribers every week. We do a Sunday Q A show most weeks. So if you're, if you're catching us over here and you like the cut of our jib, there's even more jib over there. So go check us out. But as always, we appreciate you guys being part of it. For now, he's Bill Landis. I'm Doug Lee Maurice, and that was the Bill and Doug Show.

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