← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Ohio State's No. 6 spring football practice: Chris Henry Jr., Brock Boyd & the future of the WR room
00:41:27
The Ohio State Buckeyes held their sixth spring football practice on Tuesday, and head coach Ryan Day spoke to reporters afterward. Bill Landis and Doug Lesmerises were there and check in with this breakdown on where the Buckeyes stand.
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- [00:57]
Bill Landis
Foreign. Welcome back to the Bill and Doug show, one more day of receivers Douglas and Bill Landis. Bill, I know you're a little bit, a little receiver heavy here lately on the last couple shows, but this is everybody besides Jeremiah Smith.
- [01:13]
Doug Lemurice
So is that okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I said to you in the parking lot, even to Woody, we've talked a lot about receivers, but really we've only talked about Jeremiah Smith in many different ways. So yes, it's a fascinating position group that is probably worth diving into one more time.
- [01:28]
Bill Landis
So let me ask you this question. Is this freshman group of receivers here to save the Ohio State receiver room? And that's hyperbolic, but when you run through like the groups lately, I'm intrigued by we're going to get into Brock Boyd and the way he's been talked about, including by Ryan Day on Tuesday, obviously Chris Henry, obviously Jaquade and Guilford who you've been on from the jump. Like I'm, I'm very, I think a lot of people Jeremiah Smith is, is, is going to go down in Ohio State history. But what about next year? The current freshman receivers are very interesting and the what about next year? Conversation.
- [02:13]
Doug Lemurice
Yeah, they are. It's, it's a weird room construction at the moment because you have two seniors, one a fifth year, Devin McEwen and Brandon Ennis who definitely won't be here next year. You have Jeremiah Smith who's a junior but obviously won't be here next year. Then you have Kyle Parker who's a fourth year junior so he can come back. Then the rest of the room is all Freshman eligibility. Now they're not all true freshmen, but Philip Bell, Desi Jones are red shirt freshmen. But you go from. There's like no, there's like kind of no middle in the room, which I think maybe has happened before at Ohio State and has certainly happened in the receiver room. Like this is. This wouldn't be the first time Ohio State's receiver room suddenly got very young. But this does feel a little different given if. Given a few things. But, but yeah, they, those, that group, it's a four man freshman class. If you include Jaden Ricketts, there's a lot on that group, like not necessarily this year, but that almost makes it more interesting because it's like we, we could maybe not see a ton of that group this year, but then all of a sudden we're looking at 20, 27 need to play and maybe they didn't play a bunch as true freshmen. So it's, it's a little bit of a funky spot for the room to be in.
- [03:29]
Bill Landis
There almost hasn't been a middle in the Ohio State receiver room ever in the Brian Hartline era. It's. I'm looking at the, the last eight years of, of receiver recruiting classes starting with the 2019 class. And there are 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 first rounders in there. 1, 2, 3, 4th, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 guys who basically made no impact at receiver for Ohio State. And Julian Fleming and Brandon Ennis who. I think it's like what, what does a middle receiver look like at Ohio State? I think that's what it looks like, right? Julian Fleming and Brandon Ennis played a lot of snaps at Ohio State. They helped the team. They weren't first rounders. I think maybe the discussion more often than not was like kind of more about what they're not as opposed to what they are. There is not a big middle here, man.
- [04:31]
Doug Lemurice
There. No, because I, I would. All those guys that aren't first rounders and are Julian Fleming and Brendan Ennis transferred, right? At some point, some transfer early, some transferred late. But like none of, I don't think any of them finished their careers at Ohio State.
- [04:45]
Bill Landis
The only one is G. Scott who turned into a tight end. Okay, so it's like G. Scott's like a middle, but he moved positions. So it's like, well then that, you know, he's like a middle player. He was a, a top 22 player on a national championship team, but he's not an NFL draft pick kind of guy. So. Like that. So. And, and the Other thing I would say is I. In 2019 Ohio State had two receivers in that class who hit Garrett Wilson and Jameson Williams. Now Jameson Williams didn't actually hit until he left Ohio State, but there is a lot there. He got a little bit squeezed. He went to Alabama and became a first round pick and he's a successful NFL player there has not then 2021Ameca Buka and Marvin Harrison Jr both hit in gigantic ways. Right. But 2020 that brought in four receivers. The only major hit was JSN 22 there were none. 23 Carnell Tate was huge hit. Brandon Ennis is a middle guy. The other two transferred 2024 it's Jeremiah Smith and Myelin Graham transferred and already two of the guys from the 2025 recruiting class already transferred out. Here's my point. If this. Well, here's my this Mike, could Chris Henry Jr. Jacquaden Guilford and Brock Boyd be the three starting receivers for Ohio State in 2027? And if they are, they might be the best trio collection from a single recruiting class ever.
- [06:15]
Doug Lemurice
Yeah, I think. I think they could be. No, we're. We're in a different world because Ohio State has kicked down the door on. We'll take transfer receivers with. With the two that they've added this past off season for the first time since team started adding, adding transfers. It was like the one position where Ohio State had never done that before and even Brian Hartline before he officially left like said like those days are probably over. Like you haven't. You're gonna have to take some transfers because Ohio State's probably not going to be able to sign three five star receivers in a given recruiting class anymore because of how expensive that has become. So that's the only thing that gives me a little bit of pause on, on saying definitely that Chris Henry, Jerquay and Guilford and Brock Boyd will be the starters because well one, Kyle Parker could be back and he could start this year for all we know and two, there's always the option to bring in more experience over those guys going into 2027. But I don't, I don't know that they would. Ohio State would maybe shy away from it. I think if you're like kind of going to be like young at a spot, maybe you can stomach being young at receiver.
- [07:19]
Bill Landis
It's just funny to me that as we are opening the door welcoming the first Ohio State receiver transfers of this era now, now I'm, I'm like, I'm like back in this thing of like. But Wait, because we've talked about the idea of the transfers here, like Devin McEwen and Kyle Parker are really important for Ohio State right now. But what if it's a blip? What if it's more like when they brought in Will Howard for one year. But it's not like Ohio State then got on the quarterback transfer carousel. It was kind of like a one time thing, even though it worked gangbust. What if Devin McEwen and Kyle Parker really help? But then it's like, you know what? No, we're still doing this. And then it's like Brian Hartline's sort of last, last gift to Ohio State is potentially a really successful group in this receiver class because I think, and I don't want to overlook Jaden Ricketts, but it's like the other three are just like, there's enough there, I think at the moment to think about it and you can get out. You know, a year ago at this time I might have been out over my skis on Quincy Porter and it's like, oh, what happened to him? It's like I kind of got hurt and went to entertain. It's like, okay, well, that didn't work. I just. Do you think that Ohio State opened the door on risk? Receivers in the portal are a new regular part of how they do business, or is it they had to do it this year, but actually they're not going to be in the portal that much for receiver because they're going to continue to recruit at a very high level and rely on those developed guys.
- [09:00]
Doug Lemurice
I would lean more toward. It's more of a regular thing. Cortez Hankton frequently took transfers prior to coming to Ohio State. Now part of that was because he would recruit high school guys really well, kind of get to the end. And I think LSU wasn't always game to pay what it cost to get those guys ultimately to sign. And I think Ohio State values the receiver position more so. So he'll probably close on more high school recruitments than he did at lsu. So that changes the math a little bit. But I, I don't think this is like the last we'll see of transfer receivers. Right. Maybe they don't do it every single year, but I think once you, once you go down the road, the doors open and they'll probably do it more often than not.
- [09:47]
Bill Landis
Obviously we are very curious about how these young receivers, the two second year guys who are left who didn't transfer, Bell and Jones, as you said, plus the four true freshmen, how they factor in to what they are doing right now. And I don't know if we have a firm handle on that. What is. What is your guess about that? I will say, when Cortez Hankton was asked about sort of like, hey, who's popping in the receiver room on Saturday? He said, the first thing he said was, the freshmen have come in and are, like, doing what they need to do. Right. He didn't. He's very specifically said, I'm not going to name names. But he made the point of, like, they have skills and they are sort of like, on track and doing a good job so far.
- [10:33]
Doug Lemurice
Yeah. I. I would imagine those guys that the two holdovers who aren't Jeremiah Smith and Brandon are feeling the squeeze, which. Which has happened. Like, that's basically what happened to the entire 2022 recruiting class. They didn't all leave at the same time. They kind of left piece by piece. But with what was ahead of them and what was behind them, it was just like, it was gonna be really tough to get on the field. And I. I could see those two guys being in a similar position.
- [11:01]
Bill Landis
I also. This is one of the. Is it okay that we're. It's okay to have this conversation about 2027 with that in our head? Right. I know it's only spring of 2026, but we can look ahead a little bit. Right. Are you okay with this? I was like, what are you doing foreign. It's like one of these things where on. On one hand it's like, you don't want to overlook current guys and like, be like, I don't know. But like, for instance, Kyle Parker. Right. As much as. So Kyle Parker and Devin McEwen, one from LSU, one from Texas. San Antonio. Right. UTSA. When Cortez Hankton was talking about him, he said. He sort of said, like, Kyle Parker's physical and Dev McEwen's fast. That was like a little bit of the shorthand. Right. Is that an appropriate shorthand in your mind?
- [11:43]
Doug Lemurice
Yeah.
- [11:46]
Bill Landis
We do just have to remind ourselves that last year Kyle Parker had 31 catches on 44 targets for 330 yards. Right. This is not an all American coming in here. And so I do think, as you think about piecing this together again, part of what I'm thinking about is with the possible veteran step up from Brandon Innis. I mean, I think to some degree, a player like that is who he is. He's talked a lot this spring already about he wants to be more explosive. He's changing his body, he's Thinking about that more. He thinks there's a lot more out there. But I don't think anyone should sit around waiting for Brandon Ennis to turn into Jackson, Smith and Jigba. Right. Like, that's not what I anticipate.
- [12:26]
Doug Lemurice
Right.
- [12:26]
Bill Landis
But you think about like, Brandon Ennis is better and then McEwen and Parker give you different things and they're pretty darn good. And then you have among the best receivers in Ohio State history on that guy. We talk about a lot on the other side, but, like, I could see this sort of being a patch it together and maybe you would disagree with that phrase, but patch it together at receiver in 2026 in a way that works and is good enough. And then 2027 is just back to Ohio State development dudes putting, putting really talented young guys on the field at receiver, which is when are they. When they are at their best. That is what they do. So I just, I don't know that, like, it just hit for me a little bit. We'll get to the specific guys here in a second. The way Ryan Day talked today, it just hit for me a little bit of like, oh, wait, they really might have some freshman dudes in this receiver group and it's gonna like, get back to level in that room in a year. This is a, like a one year kind of just the way it worked out. Kind of figure it out for now. But it's not the future of the room. I don't know.
- [13:32]
Doug Lemurice
I think the future of the room is. Is a mix I don't, I don't like. And maybe, maybe there won't be a year where so much is expected of the transfer receiver as seems like maybe will be if Devin McEwen and Kyle Parker this year. But I just, I think they'll take them the other thing because they're going to be an attractive destination for transfer receivers too. Right. Like, guys who are very good at schools who don't win a lot are going to look at Ohio State like, man, I like to play there because Ohio State's probably going to have a really good quarterback too. So I, and I think maybe in the past those opportunities were also available to Ohio State and they, they just didn't take them for a number of reasons. Like, chief among them being they just really believed in their room and not saying they don't suddenly don't believe in their room, but I think the world's a little different and you'd be doing yourself a disservice if you weren't keeping an Eye on opportunities via the portal. So I, I, I don't think we're going to get back into a cycle where it's just there's three awesome receivers in a high school recruiting class. Those are the next guys up and that's what we're going to build a room around year after year. I do think that they'll be a little bit more of a balance between transfer and high school almost every year moving forward.
- [14:49]
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Doug Lemurice
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- [14:54]
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- [15:00]
Doug Lemurice
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Doug Lemurice
So I think that's why seeing a
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Doug Lemurice
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- [15:51]
Bill Landis
2021 they have like the three unbelievable receivers right in Olave, Wilson and JSN and then JSN comes back that then is like hurt right away and just blaze. It basically blows up as 2022. So then there are two go to receivers in 2022, become two sophomores, two second year players in Marvin Har Jr. And A. Buko, right. And it's like I do think if you're the right second year receiver at Ohio State, there's a chance that it's go time in year two. Sometimes it's a little more. Year three is go time depending on your position. I do think in the Portal era when you got to find out about guys, maybe it can be go time in year two a little bit more. So let's get into the guys. But overall, how do you think Ohio State fans should feel right now about this group of freshman receivers? From the little bit of information that we have so far as a group,
- [16:46]
Doug Lemurice
good like on, on the right path I think to kind of take over when it, when it's their time to, to do that, they're they're in, they're in the right window, I think for, for like a group like that to hit. And sometimes like, you know, as we mentioned in 2020, well, maybe like the 2022 classic, there was, there was really nobody in that class who was of the level of Chris Henry Jr. Or even really probably dracuating Guilford. I know some of those guys were top hundred receivers, but nobody didn't really talk about them that way. So that was sort of like a, like lesser class compared to what Ohio State is used to signing. But even if you think about like Quincy Porter and Myelin Graham, right, those are two five star guys who were kind of in a weird window when they got here. And I don't think this current freshman group will find themselves in a similar position. I think, I think they'll have ample opportunity to flourish if they're ready to, to do so.
- [17:39]
Bill Landis
Okay, let's talk about Chris Henry Jr. First. Do you believe that, that he is primarily next up at the X receiver position behind Jeremiah Smith? Or could he move around and do other things and have a chance to contribute this year even though he's not going to take snaps away from jj like, how do you, what do you see Chris Henry as a freshman and then like what do you think his future is in this receiver room?
- [18:11]
Doug Lemurice
My expectation for him is that he primarily plays behind Jeremiah. I do think they could be on the field at the same time sometimes because I think he, Jeremiah would be the one moving around, not Chris. So like if you want to play Jeremiah in the slot or like hunt a matchup with Jeremiah, then you can just stick Chris Henry Jr. At the X. So I think, I think you'll probably see them on the field at the same time sometimes. I just, I don't think, I don't, I don't know that they're going to be in a position where they feel like Chris Henry Jr. Like, like must be a guy who's getting whatever 65 plus targets as a true freshman now he might be good enough that he forces his way into that role. But I don't, I don't think there's like a level of desperation where Ohio State needs that. So I think, I think it could be more of like a kind of like a gradual thing for him because the best receiver in the country is ahead of him on the death chart. And that's okay.
- [19:09]
Bill Landis
And it has. Do you, would you agree that so far when Ryan Day and Cortez Hankton have talked about Chris Henry Jr. It feels like man, this guy's talented, he's on the right track, but he's young.
- [19:18]
Doug Lemurice
Yeah, I think he's young and he's a little raw. Yeah, like some, some of these five star guys have shown up not only immensely gifted athletically but, but just having played a lot of football and have a lot of polish to them. Chris missed some time in high school because he was hurt. He's a multi sport athlete, played basketball. So I think, I think the, the polish is what they're working on. And the polish can also mean consistency. But yeah, I think like Ryan Day said it on, on Tuesday, right. Like when you recruit Chris Henry because he's 6 foot 5, he looks like he's 7ft tall, he can really run, he's got strong hands. He's an incredibly fluid athlete for his size.
- [19:55]
Bill Landis
Yeah, he's.
- [19:55]
Doug Lemurice
And I think they've seen all of that in spring practice thus far. You just need to see it on every single snap before we start. I don't know, like comparing him to a guy like Jeremiah Smith and I think it's totally okay that we're not doing that right now because if the physical tools are there, then I think the rest of it will catch up.
- [20:10]
Bill Landis
And he did say that. Right. That was almost like a direct quote of everything we saw in recruiting you're seeing here. Right. But it's just, it's just a development process. And so I think Chris Henry as the highest rated player in this Ohio State class by the, by the 247 composite was the number 14 player. The number 2 receiver is obviously like a gem, but again, it's just, I think we've said this multiple times. It's sort of like just like it might not be right now because true freshman, we understand the deal like JJ broke the mold on what a true freshman can receiver can do, but that, that's like. And Garrett Wilson played some right. But like just to quadruple check, nobody should think that Chris Henry 2026 equals Jeremiah Smith 2024.
- [20:58]
Doug Lemurice
I don't think you should think any freshman receiver at Ohio State will equal Jeremiah in 2024. I think Garrett Wilson is, is a much better. Garrett had like 35 catches. I think that year. That's a, that's a much better target for any freshman.
- [21:11]
Bill Landis
Okay. All right, second guy. You really like him. It's not. We didn't have a lot of conversation about him on Tuesday. It was practice six for Ohio State on Tuesday. We did speak with Ryan Day in the team room after practice. I'm not sure Your Quaden Guilford's name came up. He's the number 44 overall player in the composite, the number 6 receiver, the number 1 player in Indiana. Feels like that Z receiver we talked about like in that mix with maybe Devin McEwen and Kyle Parker. Is there going to be a rotation there? Anything like that? But again, what is it? You've, you've liked this guy from the jump. What is it about him that you like?
- [21:45]
Doug Lemurice
He reminds me of Carnell Tate. Yeah, like, like Carnell Tate with. Probably not. I would, I wouldn't say that he has the like contested catch ability just yet. The Carnell showed last year because he's a young player and I wouldn't put that expectation on him. But like if you watch him in high school, it's like, yeah, that's looks like number 17 that used to, used to play for, for Ohio State. And he, and he might be if you want to like max it out to what he could ultimately be. Best case scenario, probably, probably slightly more explosive than Carnell. Like, like, let's just like faster, maybe a little more dangerous with the ball in his hands after the catch. So, but a big, big bodied kid who's, who's got, you know, just a lot of explosive. Explosiveness. Excuse me. Kind of, kind of packed into that frame.
- [22:35]
Bill Landis
Carnell Tate as a True freshman in 2023, 18 catches on 28 targets for 264 yards. Just as a reminder, he didn't come in here. He wasn't a 700 yard receiver his first year. And then the guy that we have talked about, about a good amount, Ryan Day, had a long quote on him on Tuesday. Cortez Hankton said similar things last Saturday. It's Brock Boyd from Texas, son of a football coach. And it reminds me a little bit of the discussion of a Texas receiver who played a lot of high level football. And it felt like that's what people were saying about JSN when he got here. And, and like the, the difference of jsn, like Julian Fleming was ranked higher in that class, but Julian Fleming was like a kid from the mountains of Pennsylvania who was a receiver in like a wing T offense and was blocking a lot, but somehow was the number one receiver recruit in the country. And JSN is just down there running like college level routes in Texas. And when they talk about Brock Boyd, that's, that's what it sounds like, doesn't it?
- [23:40]
Doug Lemurice
Very similar, just a, just a ton of volume in their high school career. I'm looking at Max preps right Now, Jackson, Smith and Jigba, where is he at?
- [23:49]
Bill Landis
Rock.
- [23:49]
Doug Lemurice
Rockwall. Yeah, Rockwall. 296 high school receptions. I think Brock Boyd was slightly less than that. Like, like 280. I think two guys who, like, didn't play varsity a ton as freshmen had a little bit of production and then were like varsity starters. Sophomore, junior, senior. And their team's like, leading receiver all three years. Jackson a little more prolific, especially as a senior. Jackson had over 2, 000 receiving yards because. And 34 touchdowns because he was an absolute freak in high school. So I, I don't. I. I think. And Jackson was a five star and Brock Boyd wasn't. But I think if you. If it's like big school, high school football, good program, good competition, ton of production, they are very similar. Yeah.
- [24:35]
Bill Landis
Playing year round. Right. They just like noseball. And again, I think Day and Hankton both. Both brought up that Brock Boyd, his dad's a coach, so it's like he's grown up with talking routes at the dinner table kind of stuff. It has. How would you. What Ryan Day and Cortez Hankton have said about Brock Boyd so far? Are you surprised? Like, what. How would you characterize it? How should fans take this in, especially as it relates to, like, is Brock Boyd gonna, like, steal a starting job in 2026? Like, what are we actually talking about here?
- [25:07]
Doug Lemurice
I'm not surprised that we're hearing it now. I. I thought he might be the guy in spring who, like, gets the most buzz, because I just think he's sort of the most ready. And I think you have to think of him and Jacquia and Guilford and Carnot and Chris Henry Jr. On, like, it's like, line up their path side by side, right? And Brock has a head start. But I also like his. His end point might stop somewhere well short of where Chris and Jerquayans ultimately go. Like, their ceilings are higher, I think. So I, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if we're having a lot of Brock Boyd discussion in the spring and then it carries over into the summer. But also in the summer we hear like, here comes Chris Henry Jr. And here comes your quaden Guilford, because they're starting to figure it out and they're rock boys. Not a bad athlete. Like, I was looking up some. Like, he was a. He was a jumper on the track team. He ran the 200 in track. Like, his times are pretty good. So it's not like he's a slouch as an athlete and he and he is quick sort of like in and out of breaks and stuff like that. So it's not like, you know, he's just a try hard dude who's having a good spring and we'll never actually hear from again. I, I think he'll play and I actually think he'll be pretty. He. If I were to compare him to anybody, I might compare him to like KJ Hill. But I think, but I like, but like so like the best possible version of Brock Boyd is KJ Hill. Hell of a player. The best possible versions of Drake, Waiting Guilford and Chris Henry Jr are like Carnell Tate and Garrett Wilson. Right. So that's, that's, that's the difference here. But no, not, I not surprised in the least bit that that both Ryan Day and Cortez Hankton like what they're seeing from Rock Boyd right now because he's, he's just a very like mature player for a freshman. Cortez Hankton said it's like a Washington guy out there who's been in college for three years. Right? So that's, that's a heck of a thing to say about a true freshman in his first spring.
- [26:56]
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- [27:27]
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- [28:05]
Bill Landis
So we have the roster chart that you put together over on the bill and Doug Substack bill of doug osu.substack.com Again when you look at this receiver group, Brandon ennis and Devin McEwen as seniors, Kyle Parker and Jeremiah Smith as juniors. Nobody, nobody who is an eligible, who is an a sophomore of eligibility because Bugpen Miller and Quincy Porter both left and then Bell and Jones who were in that class didn't play at all. So they are red shirt freshmen. Then Henry Ricketts, Guilford and Boyd are true freshmen. There was a lot of discussion. I'm going to write about this for the sub stack in some detail for Wednesday. Bill and Doug osu.subsack.com About Ryan Day talking about the depth again on Tuesday. Like, he just feels really good about the depth of this team and I think it is an interesting conversation. They're losing a ton of high end talent. Ryan Day said earlier this spring that he said he felt like maybe they were young in 2025. They have, like, they brought in a lot of veterans. I just, it might be like a higher floor, lower ceiling kind of team. But he really, really, really keeps talking about depth as. About as much as we've ever heard him talk about depth in a positive way. Right. Sometimes he's like, oh man, like, we're not very deep here, but like, isn't it like. It's not crazy, but it is like, does stand out a little bit, doesn't it?
- [29:28]
Doug Lemurice
Yeah, I don't, I don't recall him ever. And maybe it was just never going to happen in spring because it never had this many. Like the whole roster is here now, basically. That's not, that's not always the case. But yeah, I don't remember him talking about depth in that kind of way, at least at this point in the calendar. But he, I don't know. Like, it seems to me the way he's, he's spoken so far this spring that maybe the only position he'd say he's a little like unsure of their depth would be like tight end or running back maybe. I feel like, yeah, I feel like everywhere else he's. He feels pretty good about having a first line of guys and like a pretty good second line of guys.
- [30:03]
Bill Landis
And actually I'm not gonna write about death, I'm gonna write about something else. We're gonna do our Wednesday sub stack show where you get like a two hour show with us diving in deep. We're gonna dive in deep on the depth. Let's give a little preview of that with the receiver room though. Is this like. Yeah, you have, you have four true freshmen and two redshirt freshmen. That's six, you have two veteran guys who have been around and two veteran portal guys. So those are your 10. Is this, is this a good room right now?
- [30:33]
Doug Lemurice
I think it's a, it's a solid room. I would probably like one more guy in the sophomore or junior class who has played here a little bit and has had. Had some production. Not a superstar necessarily, but a guy that you sort of know what he is and could maybe like bank on because there's just, there's just a lot of unknown once you get past Jeremiah.
- [30:56]
Bill Landis
Yeah, it is a little like, I'm like, I don't know, man. I don't know if you need to bring anybody in. Like if, if for whatever, you know, Kyle Parker could still be around, but then it's like literally like you're not going to have another receiver, you know, sort of in his junior year of eligibility if you don't bring in a transfer next year. But I do.
- [31:13]
Doug Lemurice
I mean, they're gonna have to add guys. They're gonna, they're gonna have to add guys because like, they're not. Whatever. Like, it is what it is. There. There are six players who have freshman eligibility. They're not all going to be back next year. And, and you're going to lose Ennis McEwen and Jeremiah Smith. So, like you need more than five receivers in your room. I don't even know. Oh, yeah, they have, they have Jameer Brown committed, another five star guy. I don't know that there's another receiver in the class right now. No, there's not. So there's only one receiver in the 2027 recruiting class at the moment. They'll sign more obviously, but.
- [31:49]
Bill Landis
Yeah, so this is just. But do you think so? I think there's. There's a, there's a couple things happening here. There's sort of like the structure of the room, the way it's set up. They brought in portal guys for the first time in a long time at this position. Jeremiah, you know, sucks up so much of the oxygen in the discussion and he is a. He is what he is. But then it's like when you start looking at everything else. I think there was maybe like, there certainly was consternation this off season over two things, right. When it relates to receivers. One is replacing Brian Hartline and one is Quincy Porter and Miley Graham, both transferred to Notre Dame and it's sort of like, well, those guys were the future of the room. Like, what happened here? Let's answer the second question first as it relates to Quincy Porter and Mylan Graham leaving. Do you think there should still be any consternation around that for Ohio State fans or like, as we talk about this room, does it feel like, you know, they got their ducks in a row? It'll be fine. It'll work itself out again. Maybe a little bit patched together in 2026, but the future of the room is solid and they won't be sitting around all season wishing Mylan Graham and Quincy Porter are still here or are there going to be moments. September was like, oh my God, did you see Quincy Porter had seven catches for 91 yards for Notre Dame? How is he not in Columb?
- [33:09]
Doug Lemurice
Yeah, I, I think that's my lean on. That is you sort of replaced them with Chris Henry Jr. Andrea Quaden, Guilford, like you've replaced. You replaced Quincy Porter who like didn't. He didn't do anything. He like one memorable catch against Wisconsin. So like losing him, adding Chris Henry Jr. I would consider that a wash because I don't know, like they both have high potential. We'll see what happens. I think Mylan Graham got like ample opportunity at Ohio State to show he can do something and didn't do anything with it. So like I'm. Maybe a fresh start will be great for him and he'll be a heck of a receiver for no dream. I, I don't know but I'm. I would be fairly comfortable with the Guilford for Graham swap too. I think. So. I, I wouldn't have a ton of consternation about it now, but that doesn't mean that if both those guys are playing really well for Notre Dame, you can't then have some be like, like it's. I don't. We don't need to force people to predict the future. But as, as what we know of those guys at the moment and what Ohio State has sort of in their place, I think it's okay.
- [34:14]
Bill Landis
I will say on this little chart that I made that is 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 2022, 23, 27 guys, right? 27 receivers in the last eight recruiting classes, 2019 to 2026. I bolded all the guys who played like starter type roles as sophomores in their second year in the program. And it's all the first round guys. It's like seven. It's like every single first round guy played meaningful snaps, like real snaps. Not like I played 222 snaps and header was like no, he was like basically a starter as a sophomore. It's like, well, is there an opening? It's like, it just like it. I don't know if one leads to the. I don't think it's that. Oh, because I got to play as a sophomore, I developed into a first round receiver. I think it was. I had first round receiver talent. And so it was like, oh, you're playing as a sophomore. So Milan Graham had that chance last year and didn't do it like to your point, like, that's. I don't know that. It's like, well, there goes a first round talent out the door. Because if he really was that, everybody else in front of him did it in year two. Even Jameson Williams did it in year two. Like, he didn't get a ton of balls in year two, but he was their number three. He was their third starting receiver. He was on the field a lot. He didn't get a ton of targets right, but he played.
- [35:35]
Doug Lemurice
But he did something with him when he got him. Yeah, yeah.
- [35:38]
Bill Landis
So like, and then it was like, like there was enough there that's like he's gonna go because he doesn't feel like he's getting enough. Like, Milan Graham's transfer is not the same as Jameson Williams's transfer. Right?
- [35:48]
Doug Lemurice
Yeah, it doesn't feel that way now. No.
- [35:50]
Bill Landis
No. So. So I, so I think that does make sense. So, I mean, I think, like. But also then to me it's like, if Guilford and, or Boyd and our Henry are going to be guys they're going to play next year. That doesn't mean they're going to go three for three. Doesn't mean they don't need another veteran or two in the room. But the idea of if those guys are going to hit, and it's hard to go hit on everybody in a, in a recruiting class, but that's like next year would be the time to show it. And so I think if you can see little flashes, little sprinkles of talent opportunities here, they're going to be in some blowouts. Right. I mean, this was, I think, watching. And people were doing it last year too, like the Rutgers game. And you know, it was unfortunate for Ohio State, but the Smith and Tate injuries opened up ample opportunity. And then when there was opportunity, it was like, are they playing any receivers right now? Julian Stan is not. He's not even trying to throw to receivers. And that was an indicator, was it not?
- [36:46]
Doug Lemurice
Yeah, I thought so. It was like a fairly questioning a little bit. Like, what exactly is Brian Hartline doing with the receivers who aren't Named Jeremiah Smith and Carnelty. Yeah. Yeah.
- [36:57]
Bill Landis
So I do think, like, to me, that will be. I'm super interested for the Ball State and Ken, we're playing the Bill and like, a Bill of Dug game. It's like, hey, what are you most interested in in the opener in Ball State, right? It's like, well, I want to see this, but, like, I kind of want to see, like, maybe what the freshman receivers look like in the fourth quarter when Ohio State's up 40, right? Like, is there anything there? That's a lot to ask, but like, I. Or. Or if it's Bell or Jones or any, like, any young receivers getting on the field, because you have four guys who have done it and you have six guys in that room who have never done it. When any of those six guys get on the field, what do they got? Because that's the future of the room. I'm super intrigued by that. Let's go, Ball State. Bring it on.
- [37:39]
Doug Lemurice
I think. I think they're going to get chances. Like, I was just looking. So LSU last year had five receivers with at least 20 targets and almost had six because one guy had 17. Okay, well, I say last year had three receivers who had 20 targets and, like, Jeremiah is going to get his. But, like, CARNELL Tate had 66 targets last year. There's not one guy on this team who needs the ball that much after Jeremiah Smith, or at least not yet. Right? So, like, I, Like, I think they're going to rotate. I think they're going to spread it around. I think we're going to learn, but, like, we'll. We'll know. And I think actually Ohio State, like, needs to, right? Like, they can't go into 2027 thinking, like, boy, I wonder what Chris Henry and Jerk Wade and Guilford and Brock Boyd are going to be. We didn't throw them the ball much as freshmen. I hope they're good. Like, I. I think. I mean, that kind of is what happened, I guess, with, like, a Mecca. Abuka. But I. I wouldn't want to roll those dice again necessarily. So I. I think you're gonna see, like, the receiver depth show up in games in a way that, like, really hasn't happened here since, like, 2019, I guess. 1819, those two years when, yeah, they were kind of playing four or five, sometimes six guys somewhat regularly. Like, they didn't, like, Like, Jeremiah is the outlier, but otherwise there's. There's a. A lot of mouths to feed, I suppose. But I think there's. There's just like, exciting opportunity there to get a little bit of a different vibe from the receiver room than we've seen in the past, but in a way that I think would be pretty fun and very interesting.
- [39:09]
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- [39:40]
Bill Landis
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- [39:42]
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- [39:59]
Bill Landis
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- [40:13]
Bill Landis
Okay, so a lot of the other stuff, you know, Ryan Dade said some interesting stuff. I think we'll get into it a little bit more on the Wednesday show for Substack subscribers. I did, I did make have a point about this, though, because people will have seen a clip or have heard about it that Ryan Day. I asked Ryan Day about. They brought up the number 51 new players this spring a lot at 51, 51, 51. You and I were talking like, we. I'm not even sure what the list of 51 is. Like. We got to get that. I got to get that. Those 51 nailed down because it's like 16 or 17 transfers and like 27 of the 28 true freshmen, but that doesn't add up to 51 anyway. And the idea of, would you have been comfortable with this a couple years ago, right? Or would you have been nervous or worried about culture if you had 51 new guys in the spring? And he was like, yeah, I would have been nervous. But he went into the. I thought a pretty interesting answer about having to adapt, right? And then he started talking about dinosaurs. And he said, like, I've watched the dinosaur documentary on Netflix, and, you know, the dinosaurs were around here for a long time. And then crazy stuff Started happening. And the ones that adapted stuck around for a little while. The ones that didn't adapt died. And he compared modern day college football roster building to dinosaurs.
- [41:29]
Doug Lemurice
What a walk off line. We're going to adapt, we're not going to die. Incredible. Walk offline.
- [41:35]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [41:36]
Doug Lemurice
It's like what was a part of Bill Pullman speech in Independence Day. Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was not. Not a road I expected Ryan Day to, To go down. And I think, I think the analogy might have gotten away from a little bit as he was going. As he was going reel it back in. Yeah, yeah. But I get, I get what he's saying and I, I do. Like, we've sort of talked about this, right? Like Ohio State over the last four years, maybe in periods has been a little slow to adapt, but they do figure it out. And like, once they figure it out, they sort of like whatever. They keep using the dinosaur metaphor, like kind of like vault themselves very quickly to the back of the. Back to the top of the food chain.
- [42:25]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [42:26]
Doug Lemurice
So, yeah, it was funny. It was funny to hear him compare. He could have just said, like, yeah, man, college football is crazy. Roster management's difficult. And he just said something say, like, if we don't figure this out, we're gonna die. So it was a little dramatic, but entertaining.
- [42:43]
Bill Landis
Ross Bjork was in the back of the room. So it's like, you know, I don't
- [42:46]
Doug Lemurice
know if the dinosaurs had like Sam Elliott from Jurassic park had the hat on and everything. What's up, guys?
- [42:53]
Bill Landis
Yeah, so I did, I think I did figure out through that speech perhaps why Clemson has been a little slow to adapt in the modern world. I'm not sure Dabo Sweeney believes in dinosaurs. So that's a tough lesson to learn if you're not going by the fossil record, you know what I'm saying? So. So I think we'll go through the whole roster on Wednesday on the substack show. We'd love to have you guys over there. Wednesday and Sunday. Sunday is usually a substack show where we take questions and comments from our dedicated, educated, loyal subscribers. And then Wednesday is usually when we do like sort of a deeper dive on a bigger topic. And so if you like us diving in on stuff, I think we're gonna go like through the whole roster and come up with a. What was the thing you said about each position, what we should do?
- [43:43]
Doug Lemurice
Set an over under for each position group? I think the way we decided to catch was like how the staff wouldn't be totally freaked out if this guy had to play. What's that number? Let's. All right, we're talking linebackers. The number six and a half. You think that number is higher or lower?
- [44:01]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [44:01]
Doug Lemurice
And we'll do that for every position group. Yeah, yeah.
- [44:03]
Bill Landis
One run through and like, and again, I think, I think it is an important depth conversation. Then it's, you know, you got to figure, I think, what your depth is, and then it's like, how do you maybe go about using it? So we appreciate you guys being here. Again, it's Bill and Doug. Substack is Bill and Doug. Osu.substack.com we'll have more shows on this podcast feed on this YouTube channel this week. We are talking after practice with folks on Thursday. So we'll be back here then. And I think, like, we're in a good habit here of, like, if we go to, if we're, you know, they have a practice and, and we talk to some people afterward, we're going to come on here and let you guys know what we think about what we heard and what we asked. So.
- [44:42]
Doug Lemurice
Oh, and also, yeah, Saturday, Student Appreciation Day. We'll be there. We get to watch practice and we're going to have a live reaction show on Substack. So, yes, if you've been thinking about joining and that sounds like something that's interesting to you, you can find us there. Bill and Doug. Osu.substack.com 18 off an annual subscription through the end of spring practice.
- [45:05]
Bill Landis
Yeah, that'll be fun. Very much looking forward to Saturday, getting in there, getting eyeballs on a whole bunch of stuff. So. All right. For now. Appreciate you guys, as always. He's Bill Landis. I'm Doug Lemurice, and that was the Bill and Doug Show.