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B (13:51)

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A (14:38)

Played four against Penn State. We'll see if that gets paired down or if they feel like they have an opportunity with these next three opponents to kind of keep letting it play out until choosing who they're going to ride with against Michigan. Clearly that conversation includes Bo Jackson. It's just a matter of of what else all does it include? I do think we'll talk about the fumble here. Like C.J. donaldson's fumble against Penn State was brutal. Obviously fumbles are never well timed or well positioned. That was. That was certainly neither of those two things. It gave Penn State basically a free seven points. He has not had a lot of ball security issues in his career. That was his first fumble at Ohio State. They went back to him later in the game. I think he will remain their situational guy. Short yardage, low red zone. I believe you will continue to see C.J. donaldson. They did give Bo Jackson a couple low red zone carries in this game against Penn State. I thought he did fine. There was one run where I thought he should have. He. There was a crease there for a touchdown and he kind of ran into the back of Phil Daniels and, and fell to the ground. There was another play where Jackson got the run where I. I thought it was blocked well enough for him to sort of be one on one with a safety and he didn't quite get there just to score. So I thought we saw a little bit of why they've been hesitant to go to Bo Jackson in the low road zone in short yardage. And C.J. donaldson, while inconsistent in those areas, is probably still their best option. And I do think more or less has delivered in those spots. Not always. And when you don't, it tends to stick out because you get super frustrated when they don't convert third and one or when it takes three runs from inside the three to score. Part of me just kind of thinks that's who this team is. But that's a long way of saying, like, I don't think CJ Donaldson's going anywhere. But I also don't think CJ Donaldson is like RB2. I think, I think there's RB1 and Jackson, their situational running back with CJ Donaldson. And then like, who is RB2, which is either Isaiah west or James Peoples or maybe it's. It's CJ Donaldson elevating to get more work. But I really think that's more of a battle between west and Peoples right now. Peoples is coming off of what I thought was maybe his best game. Not a huge workload, but he did make guys miss. He had three missed tackles forced. I thought he had a couple nice runs, especially late. So I think, like, I think that's the thing that's going to be the separator. It is odd, maybe odds on the right word, but it's frustrating, I think, to see especially in this game against Penn State. This was the first game in a while where I thought like things were from time to time blocked up to be explosive runs. And with the exception of the 51 yard run from Bo Jackson, which was great to see, there probably wasn't enough explosiveness in, in this game. Not probably there wasn't. And I thought, I thought west went down too easy on one of the runs. I thought, I thought Jackson Got tackled by a safety on first contact a few times too many. So it was efficient, really efficient. Actually probably their most efficient rushing game of the year. But they're still looking for that explosiveness. Maybe, maybe that run late, that 51 yarder can be something that unlocks more explosion for Ohio State. Now that was, that was late in the game. Penn State was worn down. But I did take notice of the fact that Bo Jackson rips off that 51 yard run and then Ohio State gets the ball back to kind of like run the clock out, if they're able to, and goes 5 yards, 9 yards, 11 yards, 3 yards, 5 yards and then 1 yard and then the sneak to end the game. Like that's, that's pretty good in that spot. So we'll see if finally hitting that long run is something that can make that happen a little more consistent. Consistently, Ohio State is really struggling to hit those home runs. They only have five carries of 20 yards or more on the season, which is just really low and kind of out of character for Ohio State. I think you can expect Ohio State to have a, you know, even in like average rushing seasons to have like at least one of those per game. And they don't have it right now. They're getting about half point six or something like that per game five times in eight games. So that's the thing I think they need most from the running backs is can you, can you give the team a spark? Can you make guys miss? Can you be explosive? Offensive line remains a work in progress, clearly. You know, we thought perhaps Josh Padilla could take over at right guard for Tiger Shabola. That didn't happen. They both played, but Tiger played more. I thought they played about even in that game. I think generally the offensive line got a little overwhelmed against Penn State, especially in pass protection, maybe a little bit less so in the run game, but it remains a work in progress. Part of me, you know, kind of feels like the group is what it is. Are there ways for them to continue gelling and get better? Certainly. I. I don't know. It's not like a big, burly offensive line. The right side's got some good size, the left side less so. Carson Hinsman's more of an athletic center that needs like a physical push you around kind of center. So I think the one thing that they have settled on is, is what concepts like work for the offensive line. And I think you have seen it get pared down a little bit here lately. Ohio State was throwing a lot of scheme, sort of like at the board to see what works early on. And I think kind of starting with that Wisconsin game you have, you have felt them kind of try to find some things to hang their hat on. And I thought that continued against Penn State. I've not really had much issue with the run scheme to be honest because I separate sort of like play calling and play design. Play design I think has been by and large like not bad. You definitely see what I consider like the influence of Tyler Bowen there with some of the different stuff they did, including against Penn State they had this counter play where they kind of use two tight ends to block instead of using an offensive lineman and a tight end or two, two offensive linemen. That play actually worked pretty well. Some different personnel groupings like shifts, emotions and things that work some different angles. Like I, I thought the run game against Penn State was well designed. For the most part this year. I haven't really had much issue with the design. I think like situational play calling you're always going to be an alert for with a first time play caller whether that's short yardage, red zone, like things like tendencies. Are they running all the time out of pistol? Are they running all the time out of from under center? I also don't think that's an issue. I think they have a nice play action run balance when they're under center where, when they're in the pistol they have, they have increased their rate of run pass options when they're, when they're running from the shotgun that I, in ways that I think helped the run game. I think you know, early on there was a lot of like run run pass, a lot of early down run. They've gotten away from that. So like I, I think scheme and play calling, you can see it progressing a little bit. With the exception I know people were pulling their hair out when they started that two miniature with a run, me included. I'm not saying it's perfect. Then of course CJ Donaldson fumbled to, to exacerbate it and make everybody about as furious as you can be that that play happened. So it can keep getting better but, but I think, I think that of sort of like the three components. Scheme, running back, offensive line. Scheme has probably been the best offensive line for its struggles, maybe has been second best running back third as they try to figure out who exactly they can rely on and, and, and really try to get some more explosiveness out of it. But, but I guess I see a pathway forward for, for all those things to, to gel and to make this somewhat reliable. The thing is, like, I don't. I. I really do think kind of what we saw against Penn State is sort of the best you can hope for with the. Just. Just the way things are set up right now. They average five yards of carry. They had an explosive run for 51 yards on 28 carries. 12 of them were for five plus yards. Like, that's. That's pretty good. They only had two negative rushes. That's really good compared to what they had done. They had four each in the last two games. So, like, it's great to see that number come down. When they got into the low red zone, running the ball inside the five, they finished those drives right. It might have took them an extra crack or two to do it, but they did it right. So, like, I. I just don't think it's going to be a rushing attack that's going to ever overwhelm people. It's. Can it be complementary to the run? Can it not be, like a net negative? And I think if you can, like, bottle what we saw against Penn State, which, again, like, I didn't wow me. I don't think it wowed anybody. It was just sort of okay, then I think it can be a net positive and complimentary moving forward as this team becomes much more of a pass first team, which. Which it clearly is. Like, that's, that's honestly, like, we can have all these conversations like, are they running it? Well, how are they running it? Whatever. The thing that's been most apparent to me in the last two games is that Ohio State understands that it cannot run the ball as much as it was running the ball earlier in the year. Wisconsin, I think, will be an outlier. Wisconsin, they only run the ball on 33 of their plays. I think that number will be above 40 most games, if not creeping towards, like 45. But against Penn State, prior to the last drive, where they got it back with four minutes left, and we're clearly just going to run it out. If you take those. I think it was six or seven plays away. Ohio State ran the ball 47 of the time. So 53 pass, 47 run. I think that's about where they want to live. And. And you think about, like, where they were early in the season, it was sort of flipped. Even. Even still, their overall season number, I think, is about 53. Russ Rush ran the ball a ton against Texas, like 60 of the time against Texas. That's ridiculous for a team that's not. You're not good enough running, running the ball to run the ball that much, and I think Ohio State has sort of always known that. But now that we're into this point of the season where it's like, okay, you really need the, you need to do the things you're best at and hope that everything else can be a compliment. We're seeing Ohio State throw the ball more and I think that will continue. So the run game needs to be better. I think it will be better, or I think it could be what we just saw and that would be good enough. That's probably the best way to say it. With Sylvania, seeing better while driving at night starts with you because headlight bulbs dim over time and can lose up to 50ft of visibility before burnout. That's why you shouldn't wait. Upgrade your drive with brighter lights for better visibility on the road ahead. Sylvania's step by step installation video guides make it easier than ever to take control of your nighttime clarity, all without a trip to the mechanic. So before a burnout darkens your day, upgrade to Sylvania and see better tonight. Some things are built to last and only get better with time, adventures, stories and boots. L.L. bean's Bean boots have been handcrafted in Maine since 1912. Filled with leather, rubber bottoms and triple needle stitching, they handle the rain, mud and snow. Perfect for commutes, hikes or sidelines. Their design has stayed timeless for over a century. Because real style doesn't chase trends, L.L. bean boots are simply best worn. Find your pair@llbean.com crafted to last, ready for the outdoors and timeless in style. This team will be one that's carried by, you know, obviously its defense and its passing attack, both of which may be the best in the country. So that's the thing. It's like if you, if you're passing attacks the best in the country and your defense is going to be the best in the country, how good does your running game really need to be? And right now, highest age run game is like middle of the pack nationally. And I think that could be okay in a world where those two other things are perhaps the best in the sport. Or even if they're not like the best. Exactly. At worst, top 5, top 10 in the sport. Right. So I don't know that I look at the run game as something that could be Ohio State's undoing. Maybe those will be famous last words. You can feel free to throw that back at me if that's indeed what happens. But. But I found. I found the Penn State game to Be a little encouraging. I know Penn State's like down on its luck has not been tremendous defensively this year. But in terms of like ideas working on it, finding a little more efficiency find like you know, cracking a defense to get a 50 plus yard run like they got from Bo Jackson. That was good. And like, and even like seeing the opportunities for more explosive runs that didn't quite hit I think is also encouraging if like, if that makes sense like the. Because I don't even know. There's been a lot of runs prior to this game where I thought well if you made that guy miss that would have been a 30, 40 yard run. This game had a couple of those which like I think is good so long as you know down the road those actually do turn into kind of 3040 yard runs. That'd be great for the offense. Last thing I wanted to touch on before we wrap up is I it just this ongoing conversation on the about the run game just has had me thinking about like Ohio State's trying to repeat his national champions. How good this is actually have to be. So Ohio State at the Moment is averaging 4.64 yards per carry and I just want to run through the last couple national champions again. 2025 Ohio State 4.64. Last year's Ohio State team 4.99. 2023 Michigan 4.50. Actually worse than this current Ohio State team. Georgia's two title teams ran it well, both over five yards of carry, 5.53 and 5.26. Alabama in 2025 yards per carry, solid. And then LSU 2019 is like is, is is maybe the team I kind of have on my mind. And I know this isn't the first time that that team maybe has been brought up in reference to some other Ohio State offenses because they were really dynamic throwing the ball, had two dynamite receivers, a great quarterback who was deadly accurate and the run game was just sort of along for the ride. 4.88 yards per carry on that team. Which is to say like I don't think this rushing attack is in like dire straits. Of course you want it to be better. I would like to see it be better. I don't know that it is a requirement for it to suddenly take off in order for Ohio State to win a national title. And there are other teams like Alabama, they can't run the ball at all. They're if they are a full yard worse yards per carry running the ball than Ohio State is. They're. They're like one of the worst Power 4 rushing teams in the country, but they throw it well and they play decent defense, I guess. And people think they can win a national championship. I think they're passing attacks good, as good as Ohio State. I don't think their defense is as good as Ohio State. And Ohio State runs the ball significantly better than they do. And I just don't know. I don't know if there's like other teams in the national title race who, who have all three and if you have different, if you like, if you throw the ball, run the ball defense. Some teams are good in those components and, and not so good in others. I don't think there's anybody that's as good passing game defense combined as Ohio State. And when you look at the rushing attack, like it could be worse. I understand it's like not the most common way to describe it, but I don't think it's an awful, awful shape. And I think it can be good enough. Is. Is still sort of where I am. I was a little more bullish on it when we had this conversation the last time, like thinking like maybe this could be legitimately good. I'm not there, but I think good enough is. Is a distinction from that and something that, that I think is workable for Ohio State as it tries to chase another national championship. And, and I think there were some things in the Penn State game that were promising, but I also make no assumptions about carryover week to week, especially knowing what, what is coming up here in these next three games and the fact that Ohio is just not playing good run defenses. So I think the best you can hope for in those three games is continue working on it, continue building confidence, maybe most especially reps for the young running backs so they can get a better feel for like what it is to, to get in the open field and make guys miss. And then maybe that's something you can kind of battle, bottle up and, and carry forward. But, but of course this is going to be a pass first team the rest of the way and I don't think anybody is, is super happy about that with, with unhappy about that with the way that Julian saying Carnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith are playing right now. So we will talk with Ryan Day later on Tuesday. Playoff rankings, the first of the year come out on Tuesday night. We plan on having a show that will drop basically like as soon as possible after the ranking show is over. We're going to be recording it as the ranking show is happening and then hope to drop it on YouTube and in your podcast. Feeds after that. If there's something popping off a Ryan Day's press conference, I think we'll have a show about that on Wednesday morning. Would invite you to check out our substack billanddugosu.substack.com or have a a show on Wednesday afternoon for our subscribers there. Game picks coming later this week, national picks on Friday, Ohio State, Purdue on Saturday post game show to follow after that here on YouTube and then in your in your feeds as soon as we can get it there. Thank you for hanging with me here. Thank you for hanging with us here on the Bill and Doug Show. Hope that was like a, I don't know, some somewhat coherent conversation about where Ohio State is running the ball and we'll see what happens here on the field over the next couple weeks as the Buckeyes ramp up to play Michigan. Thanks again for watching and listening wherever you are. I'm Bill Landis. That was the Bill and Doug Show.

B (32:15)

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