← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Ohio State's rushing attack: How much better can it get? Does it matter?
00:28:49
Ohio State had its most productive rushing game since September in Saturday's win against Penn State. Is that a sign that things are improving? How good does OSU's run game need to be to repeat as national champs?
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Hello and happy Tuesday morning to you. Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show. I'm Bill Landis solo on a Tuesday morning. Want to talk about Ohio State's rushing attack? Have not done a rewatch pod in a couple of weeks. Apologize for that. Just haven't gotten around to it, but just did finish re watching Ohio State's game against Penn State and it seems like we're having this ongoing conversation right about two things that I think go hand in hand, which is Ohio State's rushing attack, Ohio State's offensive line. Obviously with the offensive line there's the pass protection conversation as well. But I'm going to focus on the run game here in this episode because it was at least statistically the best game Ohio State has had in a while. So I'm just sort of interested in figuring out exactly what that means moving forward with the schedule being what it is now too with this kind of three game build up to when Ohio State plays Michigan on November 29th. You have Purdue on the road this week and they come back home for the final two home games of the season against ucla, which will be a night game, third home night game of the season for the Buckeyes in the shoe, so that's pretty cool. And Rutgers before the game against Michigan. And I think I don't want to speak for for all of you watching and listening to this but I certainly see a lot of it from our sub stack folks. It's what's going to happen when this team has to run the ball specifically against Michigan and is this going to be good enough? Are they making progress? Is it a lost cause? All these kinds of questions right about about is there anything Ohio State can do to become a better rushing team. So want to talk about that a little bit. Bring some numbers to the table, bring some thoughts from re watching the game against Penn State and see if we feel any better about it. I, I did a show after it must have just been after the Ohio game as the Buckeyes were getting ready to go into Big Ten play. Kind of assessing those first three games against Texas, Grambling State and Ohio University and asking the question is Ohio State's rushing attack ready for Big Ten play play? And I think my conclusion there was yes. And then of course they got in the Big Ten play and you know, probably run the ball fine against Washington, ran it well against Minnesota at home. And then the Illinois game, that game on the road in champagne that Ohio State did win comfortably. That was when I you started to feel the conversation shift a little bit towards like what what's up with the run game? Right. And I wrote a little bit about that at the time. Wisconsin game I thought was an improvement. And then in this Penn State game coming out of a bye week with some extra time to prepare, some extra time to kind of assess where things are for, for the coaching staff, both scheme and personnel wise, it was going to be an interesting look at, at how Ohio State views itself as a rushing team. And, and I think, I think some of it was was instructive right? Not not only in, in how they ran it but how they chose to run it, how often they they round the ball. So there's a lot to get into there. Before we do that, do want to remind you we are Sponsored by Roback roback.com r h o b a c-k.com it is fall finally one for a walk on Monday morning. It was pretty cold. I was thinking to myself maybe I wouldn't mind having a Roebuck hoodie on to try to keep myself warm as I walked around Columbus on Monday morning. If you are ever thinking the same where you want to get a nice piece of Buckeye gear from their game day collection to wear to a game. Whether that's one of these last two games at the shoe, maybe you're going to Ann Arbor, maybe hopefully you're going to Indianapolis. If the Buckeyes get there for the Big Ten title game or in the playoffs. You want to show off your Ohio State pride. You can do that with something from the Game Day collection@roback roback.com and we'll help you out with a code bad 20 will get you 20 off your first purchase@roback.com run game this was like Ohio State's best game running the ball since the non conference schedule since since the game against Ohio didn't run it well against Texas, ran it for over seven yards of carry against Ohio and Grambling State and then had not gotten back above. I don't think the 5 yard per carry mark against any of the teams they had played other than Minnesota I think is correct. I should have that. I apologize. Game log for Ohio State rushing 2.26 per carry against Texas, 7.21 against Grambling, 7.26 against Ohio, 4.38 against Washington, 4.43 against Minnesota, 2.86 against Illinois, 3.50 against Wisconsin and 5.13 against Penn State. So more than two yards better, about two and a half yards better than it was against Illinois, nearly 2 yards better than it was against Washington. Of course, all these averages that I'm reading off of CFBStats.com do include sacks, scrambles, rushing attempts, something like the total number of Russian attempts can include kneel downs too. So it's not exactly the the correct way to look at it. But just as a shorthand, this is the first time since Sept. 13 against Ohio that Ohio State had averaged more than 5 yards per carry against his Penn State defense, which I think we, you know, need to acknowledge is not a particularly strong run defense. But like neither had the previous two teams, neither were the previous two teams of highs they played. Wisconsin is okay, Illinois is okay, both slightly better than Penn State, but but I would say really not great. Illinois 54th in the country yards per carry defense Wisconsin 44th in the country yards per carry defense Penn State after this game against Ohio State in the country yards per carry defense so not exactly the the most stout rushing defenses in the country and yet Ohio State struggled to run it against Illinois and Wisconsin. So that it did take a step forward against Penn State I think means a little something. I don't make too much of it, but I think it's, I think it's a little something. And, and part of the reason I think I want to have this conversation now too is I think there's a pretty good chance that it starts to look a lot better these next three weeks. And I just want to make sure we view that properly, if that is indeed what happens. The next three defenses Ohio State plays, Purdue, UCLA, Rutgers rank 81st, 128th and 136th in yards per carry defense. Rutgers is dead last in the country at 136th. Those three teams also give up a fair share, a fair amount of explosive running plays. The three Purdue, UCLA and Rutgers have combined to give up 45 rushing plays of 20 yards or more this year. To put that in some perspective, those three have allowed 45. The other seven FBS opponents Ohio State has played have allowed 51. So only six more among the seven opponents that Ohio said has played thus far. So there will be opportunities, I think the next three weeks for Ohio State certainly to work on its, on its run game, which, which it needs, which is good, but also a chance for it to look really good in a way that I, I think could be misleading. And this has happened before, so I just kind of want to get out in front of that a little bit. Listen, if Ohio State runs it really well and they rip off these explosive runs against these teams, that's great, but I don't want to assume automatically that it is indicative of like, it's fixed and they're fine and everything's going to be good moving forward when, when it is important to recognize, I think that the next three teams they play are pretty bad generally defensively. These, you know, Purdue and Rutgers are also pretty bad against the pass. But, but three of the worst rushing defenses in college football, especially major college football when it comes to yards per carry. And, and when you get on the other side of that, for instance, Michigan, not the same level of Michigan defense that I think we've been accustomed to seeing the last few years, but still a very Good defense ranks 14th in the country in rushing defense. Yards for carry. Indiana ranks 17th. Now those won't be the best Ohio State has seen because Ohio State has played Texas and Texas is second. Washington, I think is, is pretty good. Minnesota actually, like at a time wasn't bad in, in yards per carry defense either. But stiffer challenges wait, I think. And especially when Ohio gets in the playoff. So what perhaps we may see in these next three games may not indeed be reality. But I also think there's value in building some confidence in your rushing attack and continuing as the staff has done the last couple of weeks, to find the right things, find what works, find the best running backs to use because obviously played four running backs against Penn State. It did. It did Feel a bit like they were trying to give everybody a chance to show what they can do. I know people are frustrated with that. And we'll talk about the fumble from C.J. donaldson. But eight games into the season, Ohio State, I think, knows the belt. The Bo Jackson is the number one guy, but you need more than one. And, and I don't know that they feel super, super confident in who exactly is number two right now. So that's an ongoing process and one that hopefully the Buckeyes can get some more answers on. More information on over. Over these next three games. Kind of three things I think are worth looking at as we figure out the rushing attack, you know, and while acknowledging that it was better against, against Penn State, there's a scheme, right? What they're trying to do. There's the offensive line impact, there's a running back impact. I sort of already touched on running back, so I guess I'll go there first. Clear. Bo Jackson is number one. I, and I think a lot of other people coming off the Wisconsin game thought that Isaiah west, the other freshman, looks like the number two guy. They did give him some chances early, but he only ended up with, I think it was four carries total in this game against Penn State, three or four. And the first three, one was for 11, the other two were for one each. And then I think his fourth carry later in the game, one for no game. And what I think happened there, because I was pretty surprised to see that he got some work early, then they kind of took him out of the game. I think he blew a pass protection assignment. And then they just kind of pulled him and didn't put him back in there until the game was. Was kind of more at hand in the fourth quarter. It was the play Julian saying got rocked, like hit really one of the, one of the harder hits he's taken all year. And if you watch the play, Carson Hensman, the center, kind of lets a guy not run unimpeded up the middle, but doesn't do a whole lot to stop him, which I read is like he thinks he has a running back to help him. So he's like sliding to his right, kind of gets a hand on that guy. But that guy runs through and there's no running back there. And Julian saying takes. Takes a pretty nice shot. And my, my assumption, without having asked about it yet, we'll ask. Maybe that'll get asked later on Tuesday, is that Isaiah West, a freshman, probably was supposed to be there to help block that player protection before he had released out into the flat to catch a pass. So I think those are the kind of things that are going to impact running back decisions. Right? You can't be getting your quarterback hit like that. I also think maybe Ohio State could be past the point of worrying about that. If they're in a world where really none of their running backs are great pass protectors, which I think is true, then perhaps the thing that should guide you is is rushing production. Because I think it is clear that Jackson and West give Ohio State the best chance of being not only efficient, but perhaps finding some explosiveness, which we'll talk about in a second, is that it remains lacking in the run game.
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Played four against Penn State. We'll see if that gets paired down or if they feel like they have an opportunity with these next three opponents to kind of keep letting it play out until choosing who they're going to ride with against Michigan. Clearly that conversation includes Bo Jackson. It's just a matter of of what else all does it include? I do think we'll talk about the fumble here. Like C.J. donaldson's fumble against Penn State was brutal. Obviously fumbles are never well timed or well positioned. That was. That was certainly neither of those two things. It gave Penn State basically a free seven points. He has not had a lot of ball security issues in his career. That was his first fumble at Ohio State. They went back to him later in the game. I think he will remain their situational guy. Short yardage, low red zone. I believe you will continue to see C.J. donaldson. They did give Bo Jackson a couple low red zone carries in this game against Penn State. I thought he did fine. There was one run where I thought he should have. He. There was a crease there for a touchdown and he kind of ran into the back of Phil Daniels and, and fell to the ground. There was another play where Jackson got the run where I. I thought it was blocked well enough for him to sort of be one on one with a safety and he didn't quite get there just to score. So I thought we saw a little bit of why they've been hesitant to go to Bo Jackson in the low road zone in short yardage. And C.J. donaldson, while inconsistent in those areas, is probably still their best option. And I do think more or less has delivered in those spots. Not always. And when you don't, it tends to stick out because you get super frustrated when they don't convert third and one or when it takes three runs from inside the three to score. Part of me just kind of thinks that's who this team is. But that's a long way of saying, like, I don't think CJ Donaldson's going anywhere. But I also don't think CJ Donaldson is like RB2. I think, I think there's RB1 and Jackson, their situational running back with CJ Donaldson. And then like, who is RB2, which is either Isaiah west or James Peoples or maybe it's. It's CJ Donaldson elevating to get more work. But I really think that's more of a battle between west and Peoples right now. Peoples is coming off of what I thought was maybe his best game. Not a huge workload, but he did make guys miss. He had three missed tackles forced. I thought he had a couple nice runs, especially late. So I think, like, I think that's the thing that's going to be the separator. It is odd, maybe odds on the right word, but it's frustrating, I think, to see especially in this game against Penn State. This was the first game in a while where I thought like things were from time to time blocked up to be explosive runs. And with the exception of the 51 yard run from Bo Jackson, which was great to see, there probably wasn't enough explosiveness in, in this game. Not probably there wasn't. And I thought, I thought west went down too easy on one of the runs. I thought, I thought Jackson Got tackled by a safety on first contact a few times too many. So it was efficient, really efficient. Actually probably their most efficient rushing game of the year. But they're still looking for that explosiveness. Maybe, maybe that run late, that 51 yarder can be something that unlocks more explosion for Ohio State. Now that was, that was late in the game. Penn State was worn down. But I did take notice of the fact that Bo Jackson rips off that 51 yard run and then Ohio State gets the ball back to kind of like run the clock out, if they're able to, and goes 5 yards, 9 yards, 11 yards, 3 yards, 5 yards and then 1 yard and then the sneak to end the game. Like that's, that's pretty good in that spot. So we'll see if finally hitting that long run is something that can make that happen a little more consistent. Consistently, Ohio State is really struggling to hit those home runs. They only have five carries of 20 yards or more on the season, which is just really low and kind of out of character for Ohio State. I think you can expect Ohio State to have a, you know, even in like average rushing seasons to have like at least one of those per game. And they don't have it right now. They're getting about half point six or something like that per game five times in eight games. So that's the thing I think they need most from the running backs is can you, can you give the team a spark? Can you make guys miss? Can you be explosive? Offensive line remains a work in progress, clearly. You know, we thought perhaps Josh Padilla could take over at right guard for Tiger Shabola. That didn't happen. They both played, but Tiger played more. I thought they played about even in that game. I think generally the offensive line got a little overwhelmed against Penn State, especially in pass protection, maybe a little bit less so in the run game, but it remains a work in progress. Part of me, you know, kind of feels like the group is what it is. Are there ways for them to continue gelling and get better? Certainly. I. I don't know. It's not like a big, burly offensive line. The right side's got some good size, the left side less so. Carson Hinsman's more of an athletic center that needs like a physical push you around kind of center. So I think the one thing that they have settled on is, is what concepts like work for the offensive line. And I think you have seen it get pared down a little bit here lately. Ohio State was throwing a lot of scheme, sort of like at the board to see what works early on. And I think kind of starting with that Wisconsin game you have, you have felt them kind of try to find some things to hang their hat on. And I thought that continued against Penn State. I've not really had much issue with the run scheme to be honest because I separate sort of like play calling and play design. Play design I think has been by and large like not bad. You definitely see what I consider like the influence of Tyler Bowen there with some of the different stuff they did, including against Penn State they had this counter play where they kind of use two tight ends to block instead of using an offensive lineman and a tight end or two, two offensive linemen. That play actually worked pretty well. Some different personnel groupings like shifts, emotions and things that work some different angles. Like I, I thought the run game against Penn State was well designed. For the most part this year. I haven't really had much issue with the design. I think like situational play calling you're always going to be an alert for with a first time play caller whether that's short yardage, red zone, like things like tendencies. Are they running all the time out of pistol? Are they running all the time out of from under center? I also don't think that's an issue. I think they have a nice play action run balance when they're under center where, when they're in the pistol they have, they have increased their rate of run pass options when they're, when they're running from the shotgun that I, in ways that I think helped the run game. I think you know, early on there was a lot of like run run pass, a lot of early down run. They've gotten away from that. So like I, I think scheme and play calling, you can see it progressing a little bit. With the exception I know people were pulling their hair out when they started that two miniature with a run, me included. I'm not saying it's perfect. Then of course CJ Donaldson fumbled to, to exacerbate it and make everybody about as furious as you can be that that play happened. So it can keep getting better but, but I think, I think that of sort of like the three components. Scheme, running back, offensive line. Scheme has probably been the best offensive line for its struggles, maybe has been second best running back third as they try to figure out who exactly they can rely on and, and, and really try to get some more explosiveness out of it. But, but I guess I see a pathway forward for, for all those things to, to gel and to make this somewhat reliable. The thing is, like, I don't. I. I really do think kind of what we saw against Penn State is sort of the best you can hope for with the. Just. Just the way things are set up right now. They average five yards of carry. They had an explosive run for 51 yards on 28 carries. 12 of them were for five plus yards. Like, that's. That's pretty good. They only had two negative rushes. That's really good compared to what they had done. They had four each in the last two games. So, like, it's great to see that number come down. When they got into the low red zone, running the ball inside the five, they finished those drives right. It might have took them an extra crack or two to do it, but they did it right. So, like, I. I just don't think it's going to be a rushing attack that's going to ever overwhelm people. It's. Can it be complementary to the run? Can it not be, like a net negative? And I think if you can, like, bottle what we saw against Penn State, which, again, like, I didn't wow me. I don't think it wowed anybody. It was just sort of okay, then I think it can be a net positive and complimentary moving forward as this team becomes much more of a pass first team, which. Which it clearly is. Like, that's, that's honestly, like, we can have all these conversations like, are they running it? Well, how are they running it? Whatever. The thing that's been most apparent to me in the last two games is that Ohio State understands that it cannot run the ball as much as it was running the ball earlier in the year. Wisconsin, I think, will be an outlier. Wisconsin, they only run the ball on 33 of their plays. I think that number will be above 40 most games, if not creeping towards, like 45. But against Penn State, prior to the last drive, where they got it back with four minutes left, and we're clearly just going to run it out. If you take those. I think it was six or seven plays away. Ohio State ran the ball 47 of the time. So 53 pass, 47 run. I think that's about where they want to live. And. And you think about, like, where they were early in the season, it was sort of flipped. Even. Even still, their overall season number, I think, is about 53. Russ Rush ran the ball a ton against Texas, like 60 of the time against Texas. That's ridiculous for a team that's not. You're not good enough running, running the ball to run the ball that much, and I think Ohio State has sort of always known that. But now that we're into this point of the season where it's like, okay, you really need the, you need to do the things you're best at and hope that everything else can be a compliment. We're seeing Ohio State throw the ball more and I think that will continue. So the run game needs to be better. I think it will be better, or I think it could be what we just saw and that would be good enough. That's probably the best way to say it. With Sylvania, seeing better while driving at night starts with you because headlight bulbs dim over time and can lose up to 50ft of visibility before burnout. That's why you shouldn't wait. Upgrade your drive with brighter lights for better visibility on the road ahead. Sylvania's step by step installation video guides make it easier than ever to take control of your nighttime clarity, all without a trip to the mechanic. 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And right now, highest age run game is like middle of the pack nationally. And I think that could be okay in a world where those two other things are perhaps the best in the sport. Or even if they're not like the best. Exactly. At worst, top 5, top 10 in the sport. Right. So I don't know that I look at the run game as something that could be Ohio State's undoing. Maybe those will be famous last words. You can feel free to throw that back at me if that's indeed what happens. But. But I found. I found the Penn State game to Be a little encouraging. I know Penn State's like down on its luck has not been tremendous defensively this year. But in terms of like ideas working on it, finding a little more efficiency find like you know, cracking a defense to get a 50 plus yard run like they got from Bo Jackson. That was good. And like, and even like seeing the opportunities for more explosive runs that didn't quite hit I think is also encouraging if like, if that makes sense like the. Because I don't even know. There's been a lot of runs prior to this game where I thought well if you made that guy miss that would have been a 30, 40 yard run. This game had a couple of those which like I think is good so long as you know down the road those actually do turn into kind of 3040 yard runs. That'd be great for the offense. Last thing I wanted to touch on before we wrap up is I it just this ongoing conversation on the about the run game just has had me thinking about like Ohio State's trying to repeat his national champions. How good this is actually have to be. So Ohio State at the Moment is averaging 4.64 yards per carry and I just want to run through the last couple national champions again. 2025 Ohio State 4.64. Last year's Ohio State team 4.99. 2023 Michigan 4.50. Actually worse than this current Ohio State team. Georgia's two title teams ran it well, both over five yards of carry, 5.53 and 5.26. Alabama in 2025 yards per carry, solid. And then LSU 2019 is like is, is is maybe the team I kind of have on my mind. And I know this isn't the first time that that team maybe has been brought up in reference to some other Ohio State offenses because they were really dynamic throwing the ball, had two dynamite receivers, a great quarterback who was deadly accurate and the run game was just sort of along for the ride. 4.88 yards per carry on that team. Which is to say like I don't think this rushing attack is in like dire straits. Of course you want it to be better. I would like to see it be better. I don't know that it is a requirement for it to suddenly take off in order for Ohio State to win a national title. And there are other teams like Alabama, they can't run the ball at all. They're if they are a full yard worse yards per carry running the ball than Ohio State is. They're. They're like one of the worst Power 4 rushing teams in the country, but they throw it well and they play decent defense, I guess. And people think they can win a national championship. I think they're passing attacks good, as good as Ohio State. I don't think their defense is as good as Ohio State. And Ohio State runs the ball significantly better than they do. And I just don't know. I don't know if there's like other teams in the national title race who, who have all three and if you have different, if you like, if you throw the ball, run the ball defense. Some teams are good in those components and, and not so good in others. I don't think there's anybody that's as good passing game defense combined as Ohio State. And when you look at the rushing attack, like it could be worse. I understand it's like not the most common way to describe it, but I don't think it's an awful, awful shape. And I think it can be good enough. Is. Is still sort of where I am. I was a little more bullish on it when we had this conversation the last time, like thinking like maybe this could be legitimately good. I'm not there, but I think good enough is. Is a distinction from that and something that, that I think is workable for Ohio State as it tries to chase another national championship. And, and I think there were some things in the Penn State game that were promising, but I also make no assumptions about carryover week to week, especially knowing what, what is coming up here in these next three games and the fact that Ohio is just not playing good run defenses. So I think the best you can hope for in those three games is continue working on it, continue building confidence, maybe most especially reps for the young running backs so they can get a better feel for like what it is to, to get in the open field and make guys miss. And then maybe that's something you can kind of battle, bottle up and, and carry forward. But, but of course this is going to be a pass first team the rest of the way and I don't think anybody is, is super happy about that with, with unhappy about that with the way that Julian saying Carnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith are playing right now. So we will talk with Ryan Day later on Tuesday. Playoff rankings, the first of the year come out on Tuesday night. We plan on having a show that will drop basically like as soon as possible after the ranking show is over. We're going to be recording it as the ranking show is happening and then hope to drop it on YouTube and in your podcast. Feeds after that. If there's something popping off a Ryan Day's press conference, I think we'll have a show about that on Wednesday morning. Would invite you to check out our substack billanddugosu.substack.com or have a a show on Wednesday afternoon for our subscribers there. Game picks coming later this week, national picks on Friday, Ohio State, Purdue on Saturday post game show to follow after that here on YouTube and then in your in your feeds as soon as we can get it there. Thank you for hanging with me here. Thank you for hanging with us here on the Bill and Doug Show. Hope that was like a, I don't know, some somewhat coherent conversation about where Ohio State is running the ball and we'll see what happens here on the field over the next couple weeks as the Buckeyes ramp up to play Michigan. Thanks again for watching and listening wherever you are. I'm Bill Landis. That was the Bill and Doug Show.
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