← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Ohio State's super team season, the real run game issues, and changing the Big Ten schedule: Q&A
00:58:17
It's more Ohio State football talk as Bill and Doug gather up some questions from their Substack subscribers. This show on the Buckeyes starts, however, with Bill explaining what he found from his latest investigation of the Ohio State run game.
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show. Just more Q A. Landis. We do, we do this at times and we did a call out with our Substack subscribers the other day and we did a great show on Substack for those premium folks and we had so many questions. We're like, let's do another show. So now here we are on YouTube doing another round of Ohio State Q A and we appreciate everybody joining us, Doug Lay, Maurice, and Bill Landis. But first, Bill, you said you were looking stuff up.
- [00:35]
B
Yeah, I want to write about Ohio State's rushing attack. I feel like that is the thing that people are kind of most fired up about coming off of the Illinois game. I don't think it's, I don't think it's unwarranted. It was, it was, it was a bad rushing game. Like, even if you account for the fact that they were in the red zone and on short fields a lot, it was, it was, it was one of the worst rushing performances of the Ryan Day era just by like a yards per carry perspective. So. And I think there's our questions about it, like stuff Ohio State needs to figure out moving forward. So, yeah, I was diving into some of that that I plan on writing about later this week on the sub stack.
- [01:16]
A
Three biggest issues. Quick hit with the run game specifically.
- [01:24]
B
I think they are, they are far too reliant on a tight end group that I don't think has earned that. Like, they're, they're okay. I think, I think Will CAS Merrick is, is a good blocker. Like, he did not have his best game against Illinois, but I think he's a pretty good run blocker. He's like kind of the only one. Like, I, I just don't, I don't think this tight end group is as good as their playing time would suggest. Right. They're, they're just playing too much out of 12 personnel, in my opinion. Or like 13 or 14, whatever. I think they would, We've had these conversations before, right. I think they could do themselves a lot of favors by running more out of 11 personnel, spreading the field more, not, you know, condensing it from the jump and then making themselves. There's always a trade off.
- [02:11]
A
Right.
- [02:11]
B
Like Ryan Day was talking about rushing surfaces. Right. Like just how, how far across are you making the defense account for how many gaps? When you, when you put multiple tight ends out there, you add gaps for them to defend, but then you also bring more bodies in and, and I don't know that they're built to handle all those bodies. I think they're more built to spread it out and then try to run it that way. So that's one issue. Another I think is the running back stuff. We've been hard in that position. I think people, some people have pointed out out that maybe at times it's been a little unfair. I don't, I don't know that I would say that running backs don't make guys miss their, their missed tackle forced rate against Power 5 competition this year is like 7% which is like half of the next worst missed tackle rate in the Ryan Day era. So that's an issue, right? Like I think there's, there's a little too much of getting what's blocked for and you would expect to get more of that. Like they do not have explosive runs. They hardly ever get to the second level. Part of that you can put on the blocking I suppose, but I would put it more on the running backs. So the position groups that I think are are most hindering the rushing attacker. Tight ended running backs offensive line did not have a great day against Illinois. I still think it's a pretty good offensive line. There have been times in the past when Ohio State has run the ball ineffectively that I think you might point to the offensive line first. I wouldn't do that right now. And then I think they got to figure out what the hangar hat on. I don't, I don't know that they know that yet. And Ryan, I mentioned that on Tuesday, right. Like figuring out six games of information now, figuring out what best suits their personnel and then trying to ride that moving forward. I don't even know if I have a great answer for that honestly because there's times you can watch a game like I think it's counter and then there are other games you can watch like oh, they're pretty good on inside zone. I don't know. So that is the probably like the third prong. I think it's like figuring out best uses of your tight ends. Get the running backs going a little better and then figure out what you're hanging your hat on. What's your bread and butter run play with this group.
- [04:20]
A
How fixable does it feel to you?
- [04:26]
B
Like fairly fixable. I think the running back thing I think is. Can be addressed by just like Morbo.
- [04:31]
A
Jackson and more healthy Bo Jackson.
- [04:34]
B
A more healthy Bo Jackson. Maybe. Maybe as we've discussed like sprinkle in some Isaiah west. See what that looks like. I don't, I don't think they're gonna shelf C.J. donaldson and James Peoples, but find the right mix at running back. That works, I think could do a lot. And then like, I don't know, I think like Tyler, Tyler Bowen, it's got a decent like run game coordination background. They do, they have decent run game diversity too. You might wonder if they have too much. So I think there are, there are answers within that to figure some stuff out. But it is like, you know, you can, you can value, I guess, whichever statistic you'd like to value when trying to, to evaluate a run game. I grabbed a handful of them and looks like put them all on a chart and there are more than a few in that chart with this particular season that are the worst of the Ryan Day era right now, including success rate. So it's not great. I don't. It doesn't need to be the thing that fuels the offense, but I think it needs to be more reliable than it is now. Because the thing you worry about right is like the when's the bad weather game going to come when you can't.
- [05:40]
A
Really throw the ball.
- [05:41]
B
Right. That Northwestern game a couple years ago.
- [05:42]
A
So.
- [05:45]
B
I think once they get to the postseason, similar to last year, they will be more of a throw first team. But at the moment they are a run first team and they're not very good at it. The one, the one thing that I looked up and like, I guess I'll share this. So like success rate down to down. How offering. How often are you doing what you should do? There are only three teams in the power four who have a worse success rate running the ball than Ohio State. Who run it more than Ohio State, Wisconsin, West Virginia and South Carolina. Like three pretty mid to bad teams.
- [06:17]
A
Like, well, Wisconsin, huge quarterback injury. West Virginia, huge quarterback. Questions? Bench the starter who's now red shirting. South Carolina, Their starting quarterback's been hurt for at least part of the year. So they're running because they have to because they can't throw.
- [06:32]
B
Yeah.
- [06:33]
A
And there were Ohio State has Julian Saying and Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate and they're doing this.
- [06:40]
B
Yeah.
- [06:41]
A
Oh, no. Oh, you guys. What happened to the pass game that you're forced to run so much? Tell us what happened. I don't know. We have the best receivers in the country.
- [06:50]
B
We're safe. The answer is like we're saving it. Yeah. Right. Which is like I think people on one side of your brain, it's like, I get it, I know why they're doing it. And the other side of the brain, it's like, this sucks to watch. Can you please throw the ball a little more?
- [07:05]
A
And even a little different than saving it is. We know we're good at this, so we're trying to work on the thing we know we're not as good at, but we're still winning while working it out.
- [07:16]
B
Yes.
- [07:16]
A
And we don't have to prove to ourselves or anyone else that Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate are awesome. We are trying to figure out this run game so we can be balanced and effective and not easy to plan for against Michigan and in the playoff. And if that means we look a little clunky against Illinois or Wisconsin or Purdue or UCLA or Rutgers, so be it. And he got Ryan. They got a version kind of of that question on Tuesday, which is. I, I think it's, it's, it's a, it's a worthy question. Right. But it's also kind of weird to ask of like, Ryan, do you know you're kind of bad at this and the reason you're doing it a lot is because you're bad and you're trying to get better? And he got a version of that question. I think he said kind of yes to that question.
- [08:09]
B
Yeah, he did. But then he also said, like, I have the quotes here in front of me. He said, when you look at how many runs were inside the 10 and how many short yardage runs there were, overall, the efficiency was pretty good. And like, that's true. I, because I looked, I looked this stuff up, right?
- [08:25]
A
Yeah.
- [08:26]
B
Excluding runs inside the 10, excluding short yardage runs, and excluding two kneel downs, they average three and a half yards of carry. It's not the worst, but it's not. That's not good efficiency. So. Yeah, but he's also, like, he's never been, on rare occasions has he been the kind of coach that has come up to the podium, pounded his fist and said, like, this isn't good enough. Right. Like, he usually handles that behind closed doors. So, like, I know he's not gonna take a blowtorch to his rushing attack in a press conference.
- [08:55]
A
Urban Meyer. Yeah, especially early on, Urban Meyer would say, the running back, our run game is a clown show.
- [09:01]
B
Right. Ryan Day is not going to do that. But I also thought it was like a little disingenuous to say, like, well, otherwise, other than this, this and this, it was efficient. I was like, it really wasn't. They've had two really bad running games against Texas, which has an excellent run defense, and against Illinois, which has like a mid level run defense.
- [09:16]
A
But in which. And both of those, to be honest, Bo Jackson did not play against Texas and he got hurt and was not himself against Illinois.
- [09:24]
B
Yeah. Which I think is, is worth, like, kind of chewing on a little bit as you ponder that. Right. Like, I, I think that there again, that gets back to like, are there other. Are there fixes? And I think, I think the answer is yes. But I also think in the search to find those fixes, you probably will continue to see Ohio State run the ball a little more than you'd like them to.
- [09:45]
A
And also, it's not just give it to Bo Jackson and he immediately solves everything. This idea of I'm very interested to read it on Substack and we would invite you to enjoy our Premium Dylan Doug osu.substack.com the idea that they love to put multiple tight ends in the game and run the ball and they're multiple tight ends, a lot of them aren't blocking great. Like, that is a primary part of this that feels like that is fixable. If you're willing to choose to fix it, because I don't know that what are you going to do? You're going to teach those four tight ends to block better in the run games? Like, no, you're just going to ask them to do it less and you're going to play three receivers and run it out of that. So, like, that's a, that can be. That's fixable, but they have to choose to do that. Do you think they will.
- [10:28]
B
Here and there? I don't know that they're going to totally. Because again, that's something like if you feel like you landed on a better way of doing it, like, do you want, do you unveil it in its entirety now? Do you try to save some of it for when you get into the postseason? Like, like, clearly they are in that mindset, right. To work for them so well last year. Why would they deviate from the plan? Because honestly, like, for as much as we talk about Chip Kelly, like, their running game was not that good for much of last year. To be like, their running game was was helped a lot by how good Travion Henderson and Quinton Judkins were, they were not terribly efficient, but they were very explosive because of how those, how good those guys were. Right now, they're really neither efficient nor explosive, but I think they could progress in both with some, with some tweaks here and there. So, like, yeah, I think, I think they'll do it some. I just really don't get and maybe it's just like, I'm not a football coach and, and I, I don't have the mental capacity for doing it. But, like, they run into a heavy box a lot. Like, and like, even against Illinois, it was like 70 of the time. Now part of that's red zone. I get that, like, shorter field, it's, it's impossible not to. But even, even removed from the red zone, they still, they still run into a heavy box at a pretty high clip for a team that is able to throw the ball as well as they're able to. So it's a little puzzling to me. Maybe there's a method to the madness. But I think the, the bottom line is like, the run rushing attack is not good. Like, it's not Ohio State standard at the moment. And like, can it get there? Should they get it too? I think is the question.
- [11:53]
A
Okay, all right, let's get to some Q A. But before we do, I just would like to remind everybody that's a good man. Roback has some good stuff. And I'll tell you what I'm looking at. I'm looking in at roback.com R-H-O-B-A-K.com I clicked on game day, their game day collection, and I have all these different college football teams. I clicked on Ohio State, and then I clicked on the Serenity Collegiate half zip. It's the women's Serenity Collegiate half zip. And it is custom embroidery. So, like, when you order this, it's going to maybe take like a week to 10 days because they're going to custom embroider like the Ohio State logo on it. And then otherwise they have options in heather and ivory. It is just a really nice software, cozy, subtle quarter zip, women's quarter zip with just a very high quality Ohio State logo embroidered on it. And so again, it's like, man, it's like, it's, it's not in your face, but it represents your love for Ohio State. It's comfy, it's classy. So this is a great thing for all the female fans out there. Like, go check this out. Maybe. It's like, man, this is like a really. You wear it to work, you can wear it like out to dinner. You wear it on game day and feel like, oh, man, maybe I don't want to wear my jersey today. I want to wear like something cool in the fall. Or you could buy it for a woman in your life who like, likes Ohio State. And maybe like, oh, man, she's really gonna like this, like comfy, cool quarter zip. I can buy it for, buy it for Christmas for a birthday present. And she'll be like, wow, like I really enjoy wearing this. And then also you get to represent your Ohio State fandom. So again, like that's just kind of the stuff that Roback has. Landis. So they have it for women, they have it for men, they have unisex. They have all kinds of stuff, polos, quarter zips, hoodies, whatever. But that's just an example of like really nice article of clothing with a well embroidered Ohio State thing on it. Roback.com 20 off bad 20 put in that code bad 20. You get 20 off your order. Let's go to our actual questions. This is from John. It's about super teams. After last season's national championship win, I, like others, viewed the 2025 season as a transition year. I still thought they would make the playoff. It wasn't sure how much of a contender they truly would be with so much turnover from a coordinator and personnel perspective. I just figured 2026 would be our next best shot and a chance to be a super team and to win the title again with Julian saying as a second year starter, Jeremiah Smith in year three. But is this 2025 team actually the super team? So John is mentioning Carnell Tate, Caleb Downs, Davison igbosan, Sonny Styles, R.L. reese, Kaden Curry and many others who will potentially or certainly will be gone after this season. Is this the super team? Downs in Arvell seems so irreplaceable. Is, is like, is this the year? So a. I think maybe the concept of all of this is just no longer worth thinking about with Ohio State because with the transfer portal and with your ability to change your roster and everything, there's less certainty. But there's always opportunity and why should every year be a super team? But also maybe he's right.
- [15:26]
B
Could be right. Yeah, I don't, I guess at the. What are you using as your criteria to define a super team? I guess and it's like how many guys on the roster you feel are irreplaceable? I guess the, the thing with that is like every year like a season ends and you and you think like, well, this guy, this guy, this guy and this guy are irreplaceable. And then at a place like Ohio State, like new guys just sort of step up. So yeah, I think there's, there's, there's some part of it. It's like you're always going to kind of feel that Way, look, I thought that team was great and I can't believe how good these guys are now because Ohio State recruits well, develops well, and gets good guys out of the portal. So I think maybe if you, if you look at it more in terms of like a, like a, A window and like we said before, like, Ohio State doesn't have windows, but there are moments in time where the opportunity feels like a little more ripe perhaps to go after a national championship than others. And because of the natty or bus conversation last year, like, so much was focused on that year that maybe we thought that particular opportunity was like a one year proposition. And I think what's happened is, like, it wasn't. It was a multi year proposition because of the talent that was waiting. The 2023 recruiting class guys who were kind of like hanging around in plain sight. The 2022 guys, only seven of them that stuck around. The quarterback, Jeremiah Smith. Like, so I don't know what, like, I don't. I don't know that I would say like 2024 wasn't the super team. This is the super team. I would like link them together and say that, like, together they are like a super, whatever group of players or something. I don't, I'm not sure how to.
- [16:56]
A
Couch it exactly, but I would say coming into the year, I got the idea of like a. Maybe 26 is the year, right? Like, give Julian saying a second year as a starter, you still have Jeremiah Smith. And if that's what you're building that idea around, I, I think that would make sense to me. The thing that I think is so, so one thing is like, a lot of times when we talk about super teams and I know, like, there were people. I think Ari was very adamant about this, that like what Ohio State had last year was like the last time we're ever going to see a team like that because of nil on the portal. And it's like, I like it. I just mentioned an Ari opinion and Landis was like, I'm gonna pop a lollipop in my mouth and sit back and try to take.
- [17:35]
B
I can't believe Ari wrote something in absolutes that may not have been true. Yeah, our guy, we're gonna have him.
- [17:41]
A
On next week, so we are gonna. We're excited to have mine. But so, like, in terms of like, are you ever gonna have 15 people turn down the NFL to stay it or whatever? Like, I, I don't know. But also, I think probably like, college football is not changing. I mean, like, the talents flattening out. We all understand that.
- [18:00]
B
Yeah.
- [18:00]
A
The thing that I think has happened, and it's just like you, you know, you can start down a road with Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate. It's like, when's the last time you saw two receivers? Like, I don't know, like, maybe when you had Jackson Smith and Jigba, Garrett Wilson and Chris Olave all on the Same team in 2021. Like that. I don't know. Like, we've. So there are. It's difficult sometimes with Ohio State to say, well, I've never seen this before. This is the best it's ever been. Because then it's like, well, I don't know, this was pretty awesome, too. But here's my point. Jeremiah Smith and Caleb Downs, arguably or maybe inarguably coming into the season, were viewed as the best offensive player in college football and the best defensive player in college football. And the establishing of two absolutely bonafide running mates for those guys that Carnell Tate. No one is saying Carnell Tate is better than Jeremiah Smith, but Carnell Tate looks as good as basically any other receiver in the country. Right. And what Arvell Reese has become at linebacker and the force that he has become and all the draft people who are like, actually, Arvell Reese is going to be high. Caleb Downs, that. So you, you have these outstanding individuals who now have had, like, sidekicks who are, you know, co conspirators, rise up to their same level. And now you're talking about these duos on both sides of the ball. That is pretty extraordinary. And I'm not like, I'm not trying to say, like, was, is this the best defensive duel in Ohio State history? It's like, what, you know, no. Yes. There's a thousand other candidates. But that I think is what has changed Landis, because it felt like Jeremiah's good and Caleb's good and yeah, there's some other good guys around him and it's like, no, they're like four absolute superstars. And then, by the way, the five star quarterback who had never played before looks like he's got a handle on this thing. I don't know if you have to wait till year two as a starter for this to fully flourish. And you start with those five and then I think you can get to a super team conversation pretty quickly, especially when you believe that three of those five Tate Downs and Reese aren't going to be back next year.
- [20:17]
B
Yeah, no, that's probably. That's probably right. I think, like, Arvel Race to me feels like the root may be the real driver of it. It's like, wait, we had a guy step up who people are talking about like he's gonna be the first non quarterback drafted.
- [20:27]
A
Yeah.
- [20:28]
B
Like that's, that's what they think of RVL Reese. And that was just like, I don't think anyone was expecting that. Right. Like you're hopeful that you can fill in the gaps for the guys that left. And like some of the transfers hit and you get excited about guy stepping up into the roles, but for one of them to like practically immediately vault himself into like, I'm the best defensive player in college football.
- [20:49]
A
Right.
- [20:50]
B
Is pretty remarkable. And like, I understand why it would push people under the direction of like, actually this is a super team. I guess I would say like it doesn't have to be an either or.
- [21:00]
A
Right.
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B
Can they just both be super teams?
- [21:03]
A
Well, so I mean the point that the John was really making is like is 25 the super team, not 26. It's not really about. Was 24. Yeah, yeah, right.
- [21:12]
B
I don't think, I just don't think there's enough money in the Ohio State war chest yet to keep Arvel Reese, Caleb Downs and Carnell Tate from going to the NFL draft.
- [21:20]
A
Can you imagine who's, who's that guy?
- [21:24]
B
Yeah, whoever that would be you're talking about. Well, I don't know, 70 to 80 million dollars in rookie, rookie contracts you're trying to account for there.
- [21:40]
A
What if LeBron James was just like, you know what, I want to see those guys in the shoe next year. And LeBron was just like one time donation, $75 million. 25 million each for Arvel Caleb, we.
- [21:53]
B
Just have to do whatever their first year, their first year is, I guess because his contract would still be waiting for them on the other side. But Yeah, I mean, five, they're 5.5 million dollar college players. Like, can you, can you have four of them?
- [22:07]
A
I don't know.
- [22:07]
B
I don't think so.
- [22:09]
A
LeBron just really wants to see Ohio State go for a three peat. He's like, I'll do whatever it takes. Keep me in school. He flies them all out on a private jet and then they all stay. So that's the thing. But, but to your point, it's like, well then next year when whatever. It's Julian saying and Jeremiah Smith and Bo Jackson as your trio of offensive people and it's like, is this the best offensive trio in the history of Ohio State football?
- [22:40]
B
A very good chance that your entire offensive line is back. Still, still key Guys on defense, right? And like we think like Riley Pettigon's not going to be a freak. You know what I mean? And Sanchez like stepping up adult. Like, yeah, there's, there's plenty of guys waiting that come next September you're going to think Ohio State can win a national title then too. Trust me.
- [23:04]
A
But I do think, I think Reese is probably the game changer that if it feels like our RVL Reese and Caleb Downs, the two best defense, you know, with Ruben Bane from Miami, but like that kind of thing that it's not. And I don't know if I viewed it as a transitional year, but I did not view Ohio State as like the national title favorite coming into this season. And the betting lines didn't reflect that.
- [23:26]
B
No, it didn't feel like, you know, Ohio State is a program that always like reloads. I understand that. But it did not feel like a, let's, like just simply reloading and going after another championship. Did feel like it was going to take a, a year for that to gel before they really made a run at it again. But that appears to not be the case.
- [23:47]
A
But that is the. And. And it will be influenced it to some degree by what they wind up doing as professionals. But if Caleb Downs and Jeremiah Smith in particular wind up being what you think they can be as pros, and then like in 20 years, will we sit back and be like, man, 2025, that's the last time Caleb Downs and Jeremiah Smith played together. Can you believe they were on the same team for two straight years? And that like. And that one of them won't be here next year? Like, that's, that's possible. I will say like, so that I say like, well, what about 2021 with those crazy three receivers looking at like Ohio State's leading tacklers from that year. Like, who was the best defensive player Ohio State had in 2021? It's picking from like between Ronnie Hickman, Tommy Eichenberg and Zach Harrison. Right? Like that's. And so as much as it's like in Haskell Garrett, right? So, so like that's the kind of. And it's like, well, I don't see no offense, but there's no Caleb Downs in there. There's nobody in there who is having the impact that Arvell Reese's. So that's the part of this, that there is just sort of like mind blowing combos of talent on both sides of the ball is where somebody like John and I think correctly is saying like, wait, is this A super team. It's like, It's a Super 4, maybe a Super 5. If you're okay with putting. Saying in there, the way he's handled his business and now we're talking about five out of 22. It's like, are these. Is this the best five some in Ohio State history? It's like, okay, now we're talking something. So then. Yeah, interesting. I like super teams.
- [25:24]
B
What are the. If we need a definitive list of the best fivesomes in Ohio State history.
- [25:28]
A
No. Yeah, it's off season project because that's how everybody thinks about sports. What's your best? Although it is. We could just do like. We do like the basketball starting lineup. Give us your best five, put your best five out there. But we're not going to make them play different basketball position. We're going to talk about five guys. Yeah, that's a pretty good. For real. Now I actually want to do it right now saying Smith, Tate, Downs, Reese. The way they're playing right now, that's hard to beat.
- [25:59]
B
19 Fields, Dobbins, Young.
- [26:07]
A
Lava Olave.
- [26:09]
B
Yeah, probably Olave. I don't know that you'd say Garrett Wilson, freshman, but maybe you would like Okuda.
- [26:18]
A
Yeah. Who was the third pick in the draft. That's. That's probably it. Yeah. Young Okuda, olave, Dobbins Fields vs. Reese Downs, Tate Smith saying, all right, let's just do this for the next hour.
- [26:33]
B
But then 14, like Zeke. Although 14. He probably goes Zeke and then like all defense. Right. Or maybe like Zeke and Taylor Decker. And then the other three are on defense. Zeke, Taylor Decker, Joey Bosa, Darren Lee Von Bell.
- [26:50]
A
Right. I mean, it's like you, you could work in Michael Thomas or Devin Smith if you wanted to. But like. Yeah. So anyway, it's. Oh, my gosh. But just. That'll just be the off season project. Best threesomes, best foursomes, best five sums. It's like, what's the best nine some in Ohio State football? Check out the Bill and Doug show for the answer. All right, this is Cliff. I was watching the NFL and thinking how less than a year ago on November 30, I was wondering if there was any possibility of Mike Vrabel because I had officially lost faith in Day. Now I'm having thoughts of his Ryan Day on the precipice of making Ohio State the consistent top of the food chain program in college football for the next few years. It's incredible, the run he's been on since that game. There seemed to be a mental shift for him after that game and during the run. But I also look at holistically how he seems to have been one step ahead of the rest of college football, managing the season in the 12 game playoff format. Then he talks about Matt Patricia and all these things. It is, it's just kind of like an, like an expression of like holy moly from Cliff. But to think about Mike Vrabel as the head coach of the New England Patriots right now and where Ryan Day is in the sport of college football and that if they had lost to Tennessee, I don't know. I don't know that any Ohio State fan will ever stop thinking about that. Because if it is the. It is the greatest six week shift in modern sports history. If you really want to dig into it. I can't think of one more drastic than. Than this from. And it's both a program but as it relates to a particular individual that I don't know if this guy's got.
- [28:43]
B
James Franklin is pretty drastic in a short period of time. Like it's the other way. But.
- [28:53]
A
But so, so this, that's a good comparison. But. So there were always questions about Franklin as good as he was. There were lingering questions and then so it was like good with questions that turned bad. I think Day's turn to good was more surprising because I think Ryan Day and James Franklin were always similar and that good. But lingering questions. Right? Big game questions for Ryan Day, Michigan rivalry questions. I think Day and Franklin were like Dave was like half a step ahead.
- [29:30]
B
I think, I think generally too like big game questions. Right. Like prior to the playoff run, Ryan's Day did not have a sparkling record against like top five.
- [29:37]
A
No. But like Ohio State under Day overall was more successful because they were beating Penn State. They had made the playoff. Penn State hasn't. Ohio State was, was a more successful program than Penn State. But the way James Franklin and Ryan Day reviewed was pretty similar. Right. They were one at a high level consistently. But could they get over the top? And you had real questions about whether they could get over the top. So then what is more surprising? To fall apart and get fired or to rise up, win a national championship and now be viewed as maybe the best coach in the sport. So I think, I think they are both. You're. You're very correct to compare them and to say, hey, that was a pretty crazy quick change also. But I think to have two coaches like that, I think to rise above it so quickly instead to fall off a cliff and be fired so quickly. I think rising above is More surprising.
- [30:30]
B
Yeah, I think that's. That's probably right. Yeah.
- [30:34]
A
Not that anyone thought James Franklin would get fired, but it's like, okay, well, yeah, no, that's. I, you know, it. It fell apart quickly. But he always had trouble winning when it mattered, and so now I do. This season mattered for Penn State and he couldn't win.
- [30:50]
B
I do think that there was a thought coming into the year that if Penn State did not win a national title or get close to it, if their relationship will have whatever on its course. Is that a firing or like just a mutual parting of ways or whatever? But like, there are people entertaining the idea that Chase Franklin might not coach Penn State beyond this year if they didn't get it done right. It just happened to play out in a way no one was expecting.
- [31:12]
A
But I don't know how many people were entertaining even though his record was great. I mean, do. Who's the best coach in college football? And like, why would.
- [31:28]
B
I don't know that there is one. I don't know.
- [31:30]
A
Why would you say Kirby's like, okay, that's probably the right answer. It's not Dabo anymore. Why would you say Kirby's smart, Like, he's good, of course, but like, they've. They have real problems. And who else would you say? So if perhaps the. The cr. There's. The. The title is vacant, but if you're making a list, if you're just doing a list, someone's got to be number one. And it might be Ryan Day.
- [31:54]
B
Sure.
- [31:55]
A
And.
- [31:55]
B
Yeah.
- [31:55]
A
And so it's not just a conversation about. Because it's, It's. It's. It's interesting what Cliff is bringing up. Like, it's not just winning. It's that. Has Ryan Day figured out. Has Ryan Day cracked the code on modern college football? Because one of the parts that I kind of yayed for John, for Cliff, I mean, the deliberate approach to keeping guys fresh, the elite game planning during the playoffs and more, all provided significant advantages and talent equated games. So. Like that, like that. It's not just, it's not just that they won, but he. He showed real coaching acumen and expertise in the process of winning when there was so much doubt about that ability previous.
- [32:44]
B
Yeah, I mean, he was a. I mean, he and Ohio State were like pioneers of sorts because, like, they were. They were the first team that had to like, navigate this.
- [32:52]
A
Right. Yeah.
- [32:53]
B
To figure out. We'll figure out everything it took to win in the 12 team playoff era. Both, like, navigating the ups and downs of the regular season, which now you can lose and win a title so long as you can, like, recalibrate and put yourself in the right position to do it.
- [33:05]
A
Like.
- [33:05]
B
Like they had. They were the ones that had to figure that out first, so. And then you feel like from that, they kind of got a blueprint and Ryan Day is like the mastermind of that blueprint. So, yeah, I think that's the kind of thing that if you were to pick someone as the best coach in college football, I think that's what would lead you to saying it's. It's Ryan Day, because we'll see what happens this year. But he's the only one that's had the opportunity to do it, and he did it really well. We'll see if somebody else does it, does it this year. But, yeah, there was nobody last November who thought that Ryan Day was the best coach in college football. And two months later, people were having the conversation.
- [33:43]
A
Right. All right. Johnny Utah seems to be something different about this team. More energy, more focus. I'm not quite sure what, but I feel like I've never had more trust in the team and coaches as media guys. Have you noticed anything different from previous years in approach, style, preparation, etc?
- [34:02]
B
I mean, Day's different, and maybe that's just. You look at him different because he's got a national title, but I think he carries himself differently. More like, just like, more conviction. I think in. In his way of running a program, which I'm sure most coaches have, with his seven years of doing or six years of doing it, I think there's like, energy with. I was not expecting the energy from the players that this group appears to have. Right. Like, I. If there was any, like, we're the top dog, we won the title last year. It's ours until someone says otherwise kind of vibe. Like, I would have been surprised by that. That's almost probably the natural response. But I have, like, gotten like, not a whiff of any of that. Like, they. They have. Have had a really good approach, I think, to this season and like, the proper mindset, I think needed to go chase another championship. So that was. That was not a given, but I do think that is something you pick up on that does feel a little different if you spend time around the team.
- [35:01]
A
And I think it's the thing that you and I had zeroed in on on a substack show earlier this year comparing the 2025 team and the 2015 team is that in the end, if you're trying to repeat, you actually don't want too much experience. You don't want everybody back. And so that Ohio State seems to have hit the sweet spot of a couple key in, in some key spots. Jeremiah Smith, Caleb Downs, Davison Igbos, Sonny Styles, Carnell Tate, Austin Seraveld. Some guys who have been around the block a little bit, but a lot of guys who, and as Ryan Day says, like, this team hasn't won anything. Like, there's a lot of guys on this team who have rings who did not feel like a primary part of it. So they know what it takes, but they didn't feel like they were drivers of that winning. And so they are super motivated like that. So Arvell Reese has a ring, but Arvell Reese doesn't, doesn't play like he has a ring. Orville Reese plays like he's trying to prove to the world, like, hey, I'm a great football player because he played 300 snaps last year and nobody knew that. So it really, it feels like it's changed my view of how to view, how to view especially championship teams. And when you're trying to do it again, it's. It's like you can't plan this, but it's actually right in the right spot. So you have all that, all the good of having one, but none of the bad or the burden of having one because you have just enough veteran know how and, and guys knowing what it takes, but, but none of that part of it that makes you complacent. So I, I don't think you could plan for these vibes, but I think what Johnny is pointing out, like, is that kind of rare circumstance that they sort of fell into by happenstance.
- [36:44]
B
Yeah, there's. I don't know, it's easy to, like, I subscribe this to a team after the fact, but like, I remember having conversations going into 2015 about, like, you know, the most most famous players in college football and, like, how many of them were Ohio State Buckeyes and that.
- [37:00]
A
Was a bad podcast.
- [37:01]
B
Yeah. And it did, but it did not. It felt a little bit like maybe. And it's like, I would have done it too. Like, like you can handle that celebrity two very different ways.
- [37:12]
A
Right.
- [37:13]
B
And I don't, I don't know, maybe that 2015 group did it the best. I'm not saying across the board, but like here and there maybe didn't handle that the best. And like the guys who would fall into that category for, for this particular team, I just think, like, handle it, Handle it very well. That's Mostly like a Caleb Downstair, my Smith conversation, but even like Sonny Styles, maybe Carnell Tate too. Like, they're just very much about their work. And I don't really like, you know, they make their money, they do their ads, like, and stuff like that. I'm not saying they don't do any of it, but I don't think they're distracted by their fame and, or the fact that they already have a championship ring. And when you have like your best players kind of setting the tone that way, you're in a pretty good spot.
- [37:55]
A
Yeah, I agree, Kyle, on the Big Ten championship. Tell me why I should care about the Big Ten championship anymore. It's almost certainly going to be a tiebreaker for either one or both spots. If the teams haven't played each other already, it's essentially random who will win the tiebreaker. And I'd rather have a home night game in the playoff than travel to Indy for the Big Ten championship and then have a first round buy. So that is like the conversation about this of like, it's, you know, you wind up playing the same number of games. Now the thing is, if you go play in the Big Ten championship and you lose, you're not out. So it's like, oh, I'd rather have a home playoff game than go play in the Big Ten championship. It's like, okay, well, if you lose the home playoff game, you're out. So you're playing one, you're picking one more do or die game. From a fan fun perspective, I mean, how many Ohio State fans would say their favorite game they've ever been to is the win over Tennessee in the shoe last year? Right. I mean, a lot of people. That was a spectacular night. Was it not, Landis?
- [38:48]
B
It was, yeah. I think any, I think anyone who was there, maybe like, unless you were at the 2016 Michigan game, would say that that was the best game you were ever at.
- [38:57]
A
Yeah. So like, there's that conversation. But then like, you know, and it's also part of what, what the, what they're getting at here is like, how much do you actually care that you're Big Ten champs? And like the thing I would say, I don't know that there are gonna be. They'll sell them. You know, and sometimes people get excited in the moment so that if Ohio State, they always sell Big Ten championship T shirts, but if you're Purdue or Iowa or team like that, it's like a Big Ten championship T shirt. Like, that's my favorite shirt. And if you're an Ohio State fan and you're like, I'm wearing my Big Ten championship T shirt. It's like, like, that's nice. But I, I don't know, is that like. Oh, yeah. So I think it's maybe slightly lesser from a fan perspective, but I do think, I do think the program cares about it at least some. Mostly because they haven't won1 since 2020.
- [39:52]
B
Yeah, I think that's the thing. And also too, like, if they're, if they're giving away a trophy, Ohio State one, Ohio State wants it. Right? It's, it's weird. Like, it's like it's. It feels like a little bit of a college basketball conversation to me too. Right? Because like, I always think, like, in college basketball, it's far more impressive to win your regular season league title than it is to get hot, get hot for five games and go win your, your tournament title. But like, winning your tournament title in basketball, even if you're like a, if you're a team for whom, like, the results of the tournament really have no bearing whatsoever on your postseason, like, you're going to the NCAA tournament, you're going to be a high seed, there is still something that's like a little bit of a letdown to like, not be the team that's cutting down the nets in like, Indy or Chicago, wherever the Big Ten tournament happens to be that year. Right. So I wonder if college football will find itself in a similar place. Like, in my mind, I do think a little bit like conference championships have, like, run its course in the 12 team playoff. They're not that important anymore. But once we get to that point, I think it'll still feel important.
- [40:54]
A
Right?
- [40:55]
B
Like once, once, once Ohio State gets on the other side of the Michigan game and presumably is going to Indy to play for a Big Ten title, I think you as a fan are like, gonna want to win it, but at the moment it does feel rather inconsequential.
- [41:09]
A
And if they win it this year, when Ryan Day and those players get up on the stage and lift that trophy, all those emotions will be real. So I think, like, that's real. And again, I think it matters. I think the emotions of the moment, it matters. I think for history, it matters because, like in history, in the end when you talk about Ryan Day, you're gonna say, Ryan Day, in his career at Ohio State, he won this many national championships, he won this many Big Ten championships. You will. I don't think we're out of that era. He made this many playoffs and this Is his record. So it is part of history. So I think for history, it matters. And I think in the emotion of the moment, it matters the hard part. And I, I understand the question because, like, what Kyle is getting at is, for instance, Oregon won the Big Ten championship last year, but does anybody care? And so, like, what does anybody mean? Well, it primarily means, do Oregon's fans care that they won the Big Ten championship when they were the number one seed, they were the only undefeated regular season team, and they lost their first playoff game by a lot to Ohio State? State? Are they like, well, at least we're Big Ten champs. Does the program care? And, like, does the world care? When you think about the 2024 college football season, will you be like, ah, the Big Ten champion? Or in Oregon Ducks, like, probably not.
- [42:33]
B
Well, the problem is they lost to Ohio State, right? If they thought. If they lost to literally anybody else in the Rose Bowl, I do think you. You cherish the Big Ten title a little more fondly, but the team you beat by a point at home, then kicked your butt on a neutral field, it's like, well, actually, that was the best team in the Big Ten.
- [42:52]
A
So I do. I think the circumstances. I think you're right. The circumstances do matter. So. Because I was gonna. I think in. I think in a lot of ways, in a year when you don't win the national championship, like, winning the Big Ten championship's a nice thing, except we just said, like, it doesn't. Like, Oregon maybe was actually sort of like the exception to the rule last year of, like, why that doesn't actually matter. But if Ohio State coming off the. Coming off a national championship, if they win the Big Ten championship this year, and then for whatever reason, they just lose in the semis, stuff happens. They're the one seed, but they lose to somebody that's not a Big Ten team, whatever, of course Ohio State fans will be disappointed, but maybe it just wasn't your night. And then if you reflect on the season, I think the number one thing that Ohio State fans would reflect upon in that season would be a win over Michigan. That would be the most important thing. But then I do think Big Ten. I think Ohio State fans would think to themselves, and we were the Big Ten champs and we made the playoff, I don't think the Big Ten champion part would be a zero. I think it would be part of the story that you would mention.
- [44:06]
B
Yeah, I think that's fair. Like, it's not what. It's not what you're striving for. But then it's not what you're striving for after the fact. Depending on what else happens, it could be a nice thing to reflect back on. Yeah.
- [44:18]
A
And then the thing that I think you do care about is that, oh, over a 20 year period, Ohio State won 11 Big Ten championships or winning 13 is better than winning eight in a 20 year stretch. And like in that context, I really do think you better because it's still a way that we define programs. So. But I get, I think in the year, like in the season of. It is the way it's least appreciated. It is most appreciated in the specific moment in the three hours where the game's played and the 30 minutes you're on the stage lifting the trophy and then the wide view. Historically I think it matters both those places. Yeah, but like it doesn't really matter much in February when you're thinking about it. It. Anyway, this is not John, this is confusing. John wants to talk about the Big Ten schedules. So he says there are clear chunks of similar geographic universities in the Big Ten. And it. So he's talking about like he says the original 10 plus Nebraska are the Midwest teams. Then you have the eastern teams which are Maryland, Rutgers and Penn State. And then you have the west coast teams. He's saying it seems logical to protect games in the Eastern and Pacific chunks if for example, USC has to play the other three Pacific teams every year. Travel concerns could be mitigated. Right. If Penn State had protected games against Maryland and Rutgers and the majority of those teams will be played on the east coast, limiting the potential for too many long road trips. Let's reevaluate schedules, prioritize big games and maintain rationality in a non regional conference, maybe in an unpopular opinion, Ohio State should play Penn State every year. So.
- [46:07]
B
This, I'm bad at my job. I actually thought the west coast teams played each other all but every year. Yeah.
- [46:13]
A
No, they just have their rivalries.
- [46:15]
B
USC doesn't play Washington this year.
- [46:17]
A
Yeah, Oregon and Washington always play and USC and UCLA always play and Penn State doesn't have any rivals. And then like we know all those other ones that, that they did protect some of the rivalries. The thing that I will generally agree with is that I don't think it should just be equal that. When you look at a five year schedule like what they have out now, it's like you play everybody two or three times. Right. Except your protected rivalries that play every year. I don't think that's how they should think about it. And so I think you could think about it in geographic chunks, but I actually think what is more important is leaning into the best teams playing each other more. Now, that could be counterproductive because it's like, oh, let's have our playoff contenders give each other a guaranteed loss during the regular season. But again, if you're dealing with automatic qualifiers and four Big Ten teams are getting in every year, then you can encourage this play that have the best teams play against each other so we can figure out the four automatic qualifiers. But it's like, why would we have Ohio State play Penn State, Michigan, Oregon, and actually, who's the fifth best team in the Big Ten right now?
- [47:24]
B
Indiana. Indiana, yeah, you forgot Indiana.
- [47:28]
A
Are they the fifth best? So you're talking about, like, if you're talking like the Big Five going into the next five years, we want Ohio State to play the four other best programs in the Big Ten every year for the next five years. You would say that's Oregon, Penn State, Michigan and Indiana. And I'm not, I'm not questioning you. I'm just like, wait, I think you're right. But, like, that's where we are, right?
- [47:50]
B
I think so.
- [47:51]
A
So say you did that. Say. And say you said that to those five teams. We want you guys to play each other. So those are your. Those are four year nine conference games every year. The five best teams are going to play each other every year for the next five years. Does that make sense?
- [48:08]
B
I think it makes sense. Like, I saw, like, Stuart Mandel tweet something about, like, how ESPN executives were dancing every week when they look at the TV ratings. Because, for instance, Ohio State, Wisconsin is the CBS big time Big Ten game this week. So from that standpoint. Yeah. Create more compelling TV matchups, I think would benefit the league. I think it only probably works in the automatic qualifier. Automatic qualifier world because you don't want to do, like, kind of what the SEC is potentially doing this year, which is have all your teams eliminate each other. So I don't think that would ever happen until we get to the automatic qualifier world. But, but I guess that would be a nice benefit of the, of the AQ system is that you would get more of those marquee matchups. And like, I don't know, that's like, it's sort of. It'd be like kind of like an NFL thing. Right? Because, like, the NFL matches up the divisions, like, based on who finished first through fourth, like that year. Right. So wouldn't it be fun, like, every off season to, like, unveil us the next year's schedule and seeing like, oh, we got to go play whatever, you know you're going to have Michigan regardless. But like, like we're going to Oregon where Oregon's coming here kind of thing. Like, yeah, I think it could be fun for the league if they did it that way.
- [49:16]
A
And do you think like trying to adhere to something and I guess there may be, but like, well, we want every four year player to get to play in every stadium in the league or whatever. I think imbalance would be fine.
- [49:31]
B
Yes.
- [49:31]
A
In an 18 team ocean to ocean league. I think if Ohio State plays Oregon and Penn State and Indiana and Washington more frequently than it plays Rutgers and Northwestern and Purdue and ucla, I think that's okay. And then the thing that I don't know is in that world are Purdue and Northwestern and Rutgers and UCLA complaining that they aren't playing Ohio State more because maybe you're losing that draw that ticket, right, that sellout crowd. Or are you like, thank God we don't want to have to play the best teams every year. Rutgers is like, we'll play Purdue, give us more Purdue. We have a chance to win that game. We're never going to beat Ohio State. I don't know where those lesser teams would fall. If you said we're going to think of the Big Ten in three tiers, top, middle and bottom. The top's going to play against each other more. The middle is going to play against each other more. The bottom is going to play against each other more. Not exclusively, but more. Who argues that? Who's against that?
- [50:31]
B
I guess the middle and bottom teams that they feel like they have a roster in a given year that could potentially push for a playoff spot. But like you're not gonna. Because the question I guess would be like again, this only would happen in automatic qualifier world. Like if you're a bottom team or a middle team that ends up with a really solid record but it's because you didn't have to play any of the top teams, you're not going to get rewarded for that record by being put into a playoff spot.
- [50:55]
A
Indiana did.
- [50:58]
B
Yeah, but that was. But I don't know that that would happen if Indiana, if we're in an auto. If the Big Ten essentially gets like pick its playoff participants and then yeah, like Indiana got there because I didn't have to play anybody. Like the only two good teams that played were Ohio State and Michigan.
- [51:14]
A
Right.
- [51:17]
B
Like, I don't know that I'd want to be in that position if I were A middle or bottom tier team.
- [51:21]
A
Do you think there's a way to figure it out? I think maybe they wouldn't go too far. I think they could lean in at least a little bit. It into like, you know what? Let's like have Ohio State and Oregon play like at least seven times out of 10 years. You know, the schedule might tell us it's five.
- [51:38]
B
I think you could almost like have sort of like half your conference schedule, be on whatever kind of cycle you want it to be, and then leave space after every season to like assess who's good, who's not, and then build the rest of your schedule out that way.
- [51:49]
A
Yeah, yeah. And I, I think, I think TV would want that. And so I think, I think there's probably. I, I could see it getting to that. I could see it getting that. And I don't think there would be anything wrong with that because like, it's just you have 18 teams in the league. It's. It's impossible to keep it even. And so the heck with it. All right, well, we'll finish up with this one. I can't. I think I forgot to put the name on this, so I apologize. Apologizes. They apologize if this has been asked before, but for a mid ball knower like myself and perhaps others on here. Can you guys explain on our breakdown how and why the scripted first drive is always so successful? I can't count how many Buckeye games I've watched where the opposing team will have a long methodical drive on the first possession and then basically nothing until six minutes left in the game. Obviously the drive is all scripted and I assume practice ahead of time. But why is it only successful first time? Why can't the defense anticipate that it's coming and it be stopped like practically every other drive? Why can't an offense script 3 or 4 drives? Is it the defense finding its footing? False hope for whatever teams are screaming about the locker room? Something else that baffles me every time. Time. So I'll let you handle this because I also am a mid ball knower. So you are an expert ball knower. What's the deal with this?
- [53:01]
B
I don't know that it's successful every time. I think it tends to be more successful when Ohio State's playing worse teams. Like Texas's scripted drive didn't go well, you know? You know what I mean? But Ohio State, I don't think, I don't think Ohio State came out and played like it's vanilla based defense. Also, Texas had no idea What Ohio State's been base defense was, I guess I. If you have the ball, you kind of have to show your cards first, I think. And I, and I. And that's, that's not a hard and fast rule. And not every, like, also, not every team scripts like, Ohio doesn't script offensively, but if you, you are scripting in an effort to like, start fast, set the tone. And I think also, like, if you're, if you're a defense, knowing you're going up against an offense that has a reputation for being a heavy script team, I think you almost want to show up in your base defense to get them to show those cars. Like, what do what? We had that conversation, I think about Minnesota, like, what do you think you know about us, right? So Minnesota goes down the field and kicks a field goal in Ohio State's like, okay, thanks for telling us what you'd like to do. Here's man coverage, have a good day kind of thing. Right? So I think it does favor the offense. I think the defense. I think it's harder to script defensively than it would be offensively. And I also, like, again, like, unless it's like a huge game, I don't know that you want to go out there and throw, throw your change up like in the, in the, in the first series if you're a defense. So I don't know. I don't.
- [54:35]
A
There's not.
- [54:35]
B
Probably not like a great answer to that question, but I do think defense probably tend to open in base a little more often than offenses do. So that's why the scripted drive, like, usually works so much. And it's also why, like, I rarely, if ever get out of sorts on a successful opening drive. Just like, okay, here. Like, it's like, it's like a separate game. It's like, you get the ball, you get the ball. Whatever happens, happens. Drive to the game has begun kind of thing.
- [55:02]
A
Yeah. And I do think it makes sense, right? Because what if you're gonna script, you're gonna script your best stuff. So it's even not that it's script necessarily scripted. It's like your best plays. It's the plays that, that fit your personnel the best, that you ran best in practice that week, that guys X showed repeatedly they could execute the best. And then once you do it the first time, then a defense is like, oh, no, wait, that when you line up this way, you're gonna do that. So if you try to do the exact same thing again, it's not going to be as good and then if you try to do a counter off the thing you ran before, well, you're. Now you're countering off for the best thing you did. Well, the counter is probably not as good as the best thing that you did. Right. So it also is sort of like everybody has, like, their five best plays, and a lot of them are probably part of your script. So I. Do you think that could be part of it, though? It's not necessarily that. It's because we always talk about it in terms of, like, scripted, which can make the rest of the game feel like, well, what are you doing the rest of the game? Just like, pulling it out of your butt. Like, was, this is our. This is when we had a plan, and then this was when we were like, I don't know, what do we call now? But actually, is it less than. It's scripted? And it's. This is our best, best stuff. And now we're gonna run maybe our best stuff again, which means it probably won't be as good or we're gonna run our stuff. That's our second best stuff.
- [56:22]
B
Yeah. Well, you have like your. Your. Your base, your bread and butter, your go to's that I think you start to fall back on. I think you can only perfect so many plays within a week.
- [56:33]
A
Right.
- [56:34]
B
A week of preparation. So I think that's more what it is. Like, you can't. Ryan Day talks sometimes. And like, that's why. It's part of the reason why Ohio State's really good in, like, bowl games with extra time to prepare. Because they do kind of perfect, like, 40 plays. Yeah. When they go in that game, it's like, Ryan, the press conference, like, we ran this play 142 times in practice. It's like, okay, great. But he can't. You can't do that in the course of a normal game week. So there's probably only, I don't know, five to 10 plays you can really hone in on in that kind of way. And then you sort have of have to fall back into, like, whatever your tendencies and your bread and butter is. And then when you do that, and then you're outmatched from a talent standpoint. Like, a lot of teams find themselves against Ohio State. Then you just see Ohio State's defense start to take over in those situations.
- [57:19]
A
Yeah. Okay. Still have a couple that we'll save for another show. But we appreciate everybody's input. If you want to be able to, like, ask questions of us in a situation like this and have it be talked about. You can join us on Substack. Bill and Doug osu.substack.com We love our folks there, and they contribute a whole lot to how we view the team. They're like a kind of like our focus group as we're providing coverage there. So thanks for joining us here on YouTube. Thanks for joining us here on your podcast feed. But if you want a little bit more, there's more happening over on Substack. Anything else, Landis, you good?
- [57:53]
B
I'm good. Yeah.
- [57:54]
A
All right. You're feeling a little better?
- [57:58]
B
Yeah, I feel much better. My doesn't. I feel like my brain is trying to leap out of my head, which is nice. Yeah.
- [58:03]
A
Yeah, that's good. Well, we're glad that that is the case, and we're appreciative of you guys for being here for now. He's Bill Landis. I'm Doug Le Maurice, and that was the Bill and Doug Show.