Penn State collapses, is James Franklin done? Indiana takes down Oregon: College Football Postgame

Summary

The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk

Episode: Penn State collapses, is James Franklin done? Indiana takes down Oregon: College Football Postgame
Date: October 12, 2025
Hosts: Doug Lesmerises and Bill Landis
Podcast Network: Blue Wire

---

Overview

This episode dives deep into one of college football's wildest weekends, highlighting Indiana’s monumental win at Oregon, Penn State’s devastating collapse to Northwestern, and the crumbling reputation of the SEC. Doug and Bill deliver sharp insights with their signature northern bias and irreverent style, dissecting what these upsets mean for the Big Ten, the national title race, and the future of embattled coaches. The tone is punchy, honest, and occasionally hilarious—in classic Bill and Doug fashion.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Indiana’s Statement Win at Oregon

Timestamps: [02:04] – [26:03]

• Indiana beats Oregon on the road, firmly establishing themselves as a playoff and even national title contender.
• Hosts praise Indiana’s roster depth and player development, specifically highlighting Elijah Surratt’s dominance (8 catches, 121 yards), linebacker Aiden Fisher (13 tackles), and quarterback Fernando Mendoza’s composure.
• The coaching turnaround under Kurt Signetti is hailed as possibly “the greatest coaching turnaround ever engineered in college football history.”
• Doug argues that Indiana’s win at Oregon is the best in college football this season, opening the debate about whether Indiana should be ranked #1.
  • “I think Indiana is this year’s Notre Dame, and I think Indiana has a chance to make the College Football Playoff semifinals.” – Doug [02:36]
• Indiana outpaced Oregon in speed, execution, and preparation, with hosts roasting national media and NFL Draft analysts for being slow to recognize Indiana’s emergence.

Notable Quotes:

• “Indiana does not lack anything from a talent standpoint. Three levels of the defense run and hit guys at linebacker. D’Angelo Pond’s doing his thing, knocking passes down in the secondary.” – Doug [06:07]
• “Give me Kurt Signetti. I don’t think everyone in college football is doing this with this team. This guy’s got something.” – Bill [11:50]

---

2. The Collapse of Penn State and James Franklin’s Future

Timestamps: [28:25] – [46:10]

• Penn State loses 3rd straight, dropping to 3-3 after national title hopes, in what Doug calls “as devastating a collapse in a single season as I've ever seen.”
• The toxic environment in State College: pressure from fans, media, and the program itself.
• Strong speculation that James Franklin could resign imminently.
  • “Would I be surprised? Absolutely not.” – Bill [29:47]
  • “You get one life. I can’t live like this… I’m miserable every minute of every day I am miserable.” – Doug [30:28]
• Dreary recap of Penn State's loss: bad turnovers, coaching blunders, and a "culture collapse."
• The hosts relentlessly critique defensive coordinator Jim Knowles and offensive struggles, suggesting a full coaching reset may be required.
  • “You gotta blow it up. Gotta blow it up. …That checkbook. Eleven plays, 75 yards, 5 minutes and 54 seconds, $3 million.” – Doug [40:42]
• Drew Aller’s injury and the effects on the team: “I think he is mentally fried and… it might be better for him to be done.” – Doug [40:45]
• Prediction: Franklin and Penn State will part ways soon—possibly by Monday.

Notable Quotes:

• “There’s no amount of money. I’m miserable. And every time I leave my house or my family leaves my house, we are reminded of my failures. And I can’t do this.” – Doug [30:28]
• “Clearly something’s got to give because I don’t think they can go forward as they are right now.” – Bill [36:55]

---

3. USC’s Resurgence and Michigan’s Troubles

Timestamps: [48:33] – [53:51]

• USC runs through Michigan’s defense with a backup RB and backup QB, showing their depth and adaptability.
• Michigan’s defensive line gets pushed around—a rare event in recent years.
  • “It has been a rare feat over the last couple of years to see Michigan get pushed around the way it got pushed around.” – Bill [49:24]
• Doug raises questions about USC’s consistency on the road, with key tests ahead at Notre Dame, Nebraska, and Oregon.
  • “USC’s A-game’s pretty good—and I think we more or less saw that in this game.” – Bill [49:24]
• Playoff positioning: Notre Dame has a chance to revive its season with a quality win over USC.

---

4. SEC in Disarray

Timestamps: [18:27] – [56:46]

• The hosts mercilessly mock the SEC, labeling it “a mess” and “an embarrassment to the sport.”
  • “The only thing worse than SEC play on the field this year is SEC officiating. This is an abomination and an embarrassment.” – Doug [01:04]
• Ole Miss barely survives woeful Washington State; Alabama and Georgia are uninspiring; no clear national contender emerges.
  • “There’s nobody down there. They’re gonna wind up sending people to the playoff. Nobody’s good. For real. …Nobody’s good.” – Doug [54:03]
• Doug and Bill reject the notion that the SEC deserves so many ranked teams.
  • “This sport is popping and the SEC is dragging down college football. Get your stuff together, Paul.” – Doug [55:53]

---

5. Big Ten’s Middle and Bottom: Better Than Expected

Timestamps: [57:07] – [62:13]

• Surprising competitiveness from the so-called “bottom” of the Big Ten: Northwestern upsets Penn State, UCLA trounces Michigan State, Maryland gives Nebraska trouble, Purdue nearly beats Minnesota.
• Discuss the improvement in coaching and roster management across these programs.
  • “The bottom’s not terrible. We thought it might be terrible, and it’s not terrible.” – Bill [61:41]

---

6. Ohio State’s Steady March; The Northern Takeover

Timestamps: [62:13] – [70:35]

• Ohio State keeps taking care of business and playing mistake-free football—a “winning team without very many holes” in a wild season.
  • “By the way, Ohio State might just be repeating.” – Doug [63:46]
• Indiana is officially deemed a playoff lock and legitimate national title threat.
  • “I think Indiana wins a playoff game. I’ll make that prediction right now.” – Doug [68:22]
  • “I think they can play with anybody.” – Bill [68:09]
• The north still rules college football; southern bias ridiculed.
  • “The north still rules college football. I’m sorry. Right?” – Doug [69:12]

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Can we just let the college football season work itself out? I don’t want to think about Fernando Mendoza as the next Kirk Cousins. I want to think about Fernando Mendoza leading Indiana into the Big Ten title game at 12-0 and being the 3 seed in the College Football Playoff.” – Doug [09:13]
• “Spiritually, Kurt Signetti came out of the womb shirtless and never put a shirt on. Sixty-three years of letting it all hang out.” – Doug [22:27]
• “They are a bona fide national championship contender.” – Doug [12:56]
• “The only thing worse than SEC play on the field this year is SEC officiating. This is an abomination and an embarrassment.” – Doug [01:04]
• “Indiana 6-0… I think that is the biggest—as much as the end of Penn State, I think is a bigger story—[but] the Anna story is the most astonishing thing happening this season.” – Doug [62:13]
• “We still have opinions about this, we still have knowledge about this, we still think it’s interesting, and somebody has to tell the south to cram it, right?” – Doug [69:14]

---

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• Indiana-Oregon Breakdown: [02:04] – [26:03]
• Penn State Disaster and Franklin Debate: [28:25] – [46:10]
• USC-Michigan Takeaways: [48:33] – [53:51]
• SEC Rant & Rundown: [18:27], [54:03] – [56:46]
• Big Ten “Bottom” Analysis: [57:07] – [62:13]
• Ohio State/National Picture/Northern Bias: [62:13] – [70:35]

---

Flow & Tone

The show is high-energy with sharp humor but always delivers deep and knowledgeable football analysis. Doug is animated, sometimes theatrical; Bill offers measured, articulate counterpoints. The episode flows organically from Indiana’s triumph to Penn State’s implosion, then to national implications, always putting the Big Ten and Midwest football front-and-center—never missing a chance to poke fun at the SEC.

---

Summary for Listeners

If you missed the episode: Indiana is for real and potentially playoff-bound after a historic road win over Oregon; Penn State’s season is over and James Franklin is likely gone; the SEC is a collective dumpster fire (their words), and the Big Ten is deeper than almost anyone thought. Ohio State remains the steady giant in a chaotic season, while Doug and Bill continue to advocate—loudly—for Northern football supremacy.

---

For deeper dives, check out Bill and Doug’s Tuesday Playoff Show and their Ohio State-dedicated Substack: billandougosu.substack.com.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. I'm not sure if I'm smoking this cigarette for Kurt Signetti or. Because it's like, the last thing you'd give James Franklin before his Penn State career ends. Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show. We're doing it old style, Talking northern ball, national college football. Douglas, Maurice and Bill Landis, thanks to everybody for joining us here. Man, what a day. We have to talk about Penn State losing to Northwestern. We have to talk about Indiana beating Oregon. I want to talk a little bit about USC just kind of ripping through Michigan's defense in very impressive fashion with such a huge USC Notre Dame game next week. I want to talk a little bit about the fact that everybody in the SEC stinks to high heaven. I want to talk a little bit about the fact that, like, it feels like Luke Fickles done. Wisconsin got shut out at home for the first time since 1980, and Ohio State's going to Madison next week. And then just a little bit of life, like, throughout the Big Ten. I'm going to leave it up to you, though, Bill Landis.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we are monitoring Georgia, Auburn, which has been just as sectioning as section can get. And the only thing worse than SEC play on the field this year is SEC officiating. This is an abomination and an embarrassment. And if this was happening in the Big Ten, Paul Fine Bob would be marching to Indianapolis on behalf of college football. This is a joke. What this has been a primetime game, the oldest rivalry in the South. What this Georgia Auburn game has been on the field of play and the way it is officiated is an embarrassment to all of college football.

[B]

It's pretty gross. Yeah. I mean, I haven't really felt the need to even pay that much attention to it because I feel like every time I looked at the screen, there was just a replay review happening and not much else, you know, happening when they weren't reviewing things. It's 13:10 with seven minutes left. Yeah, Gross is right. Gross is right. Gross for a lot of reasons.

[A]

Georgia stinks. I know Penn State stinks. Georgia also stinks. And that, like, Auburn's letting them up off the mat is just an example of, like, well, everybody stink. This is a joke. Do you want to start with Indiana's tremendous win at Oregon? What this means for Kurt Signetti, what this means for the Big Ten? What this means for the future of Indiana football? Or do you want to start with Penn State's, the final piece of Penn State's and James Franklin's collapse?

[B]

I think we should start With Indiana. Okay, well, you have. While you have your cigarette handy.

[A]

So you said we spent much of the offseason saying, who's the next Indiana? And you were one of the people who, I think, came to the conclusion that Indiana might be this year's Indiana. I would like to differ on that, because I think Indiana is this year's Notre Dame, and I think Indiana has a chance to make the College Football Playoff semifinals.

[B]

No, I think they do, too. I just meant, like, Indiana's not going anywhere. Yeah, they're not. Like, they weren't going to catch anybody by surprise.

[A]

So.

[B]

No, technically, they're not last year's Indiana. But I will. I'll own up to being wrong about them.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, I. I still had. I was wrong about USC and Indiana, but we're talking about Indiana. Like, I. I thought Oregon might own the line of scrimmage in that game, and they did not.

[A]

They did not.

[B]

They did not.

[A]

They did not. And, and Indiana, I thought, did own the skill positions in a way that we thought was very possible. Elijah Surratt was unstoppable. I thought. Roman Hemby and Kalon Black both ran hard. Fernando Mendoza was composed. Omar Cooper Jr. Is a problem in space, and they did a good job of getting him the ball. But in watching the post game, I watched Landing and Kurt Signetti's post game. Sometimes coaches just go in and say things a lot of, like, people are saying, like, it's on me. It's on me, or whatever. One of Dan Landing's points is. Like, they just were more prepared for this than Oregon was like that, that they had a better plan. He kept saying they had a better plan. And I actually think that is some good self awareness and truth by Dan Lanning. I thought Indiana just knew what it wanted to do more than Oregon did. And then Kurt Skinny was talking about the way Indiana's defense just got after Oregon, especially in the second half. Like, there it, like, in Indiana knew exactly what it was going to take at Oregon and then just went out and did it.

[B]

So ended up being, what, 41 yards in the second half for Oregon.

[A]

Is that right?

[B]

Really? Yeah. Really got after Dante Moore. Sacked him six times. I had eight tackles for loss. They looked fast, man. That was. That was like the. The biggest revelation to watch because like Oregon, you sort of equate with speed, right? And then. Yeah, at least on defense. But I would say, too, on offense, like Indiana. Indiana looks faster than. Than Oregon and, like, every bit as athletic as Oregon, if not more. I, like, I knew it was a good team. I, I guess. And it's my own fault for just like not believing or not paying close up attention. Like I didn't think they were that good and I know that they didn't blow their doors off. That's a tough place to go in. And I don't really think any, I don't think that much differently about Oregon's like standing nationally.

[A]

No, no, I don't either.

[B]

I just think we were wrongfully not including Indiana in that conversation and now we will do that moving forward.

[A]

I mean, I, I don't know how you could look at that. I still think Oregon, if we thought Oregon was one of the three best teams in the country coming in. I still think Oregon might be one of the four best teams in the country. But Indiana is now one of the four best teams in the country.

[B]

Yeah, Indiana, Ohio State, Oregon and, and Miami.

[A]

Yeah, I, I don't think Indiana lacks anything. You look at the defensive stats. Aiden Fisher, their linebacker, 13 tackles, including a sack and a half. Elijah Hardy, linebacker, 13 tackles with the sack. Isaiah Jones, eight tackles with a sack and a pick.

[B]

By the way, just as you're running through that, Hardy and Jones recruited out of high school to Indiana.

[A]

Like, so you were there, Isaiah, they were there. Isaiah Jones looked unbelievable today.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But there is nothing. And this is one of those people start chiming in and we want to welcome everybody to college football. But also like kind of shut your hole if you don't know what you're talking about. So they're like, like Kevin Clark who works for ESPN is just a Miami grad in a Miami fan and does NFL stuff and does a good job there and then just dives into college football because whatever is trying to like, like he's going through like Indiana, all the guys, this many, four stars, whatever. It's like, dude, that train is out of the station two years ago. Please catch up to college football. Indiana does not lack anything from a talent standpoint. Three levels of the defense run and hit guys at linebacker. D' Angelo Pond's doing his thing, knocking passes down in the secondary. They got after, after Dante Moore, immediately in that game. Immediately they're blowing up. They, they, the, the right tackle. They beat Oregon's right tackle. First play of the game. And then offensively, Elijah Surratt is almost unstoppable. We talked, we knew this. They are the back shoulder masters. But Oregon couldn't do anything about it. 13 targets, 8 catches, 121 yards for Elijah Surratt. Omar Cooper Jr. 8 targets, 7 catches. 58 yards. Elijah Surratt was absolutely dominant against everybody. Oregon tried to stop him with. And then again to be able to balance that with a rushing attack. Roman Hemby, 19 for 70. Ran hard, man, Ran hard. Oregon's trotting out true freshmen at running back. Roman Henry's a man. Indiana look talent wise, step for step with a vastly talented Oregon every single play of that game.

[B]

Yeah, and I think you're right. I agree. And like, a guy like Roman Hemby. Right. Roman Hemi's been a good Big Ten back for three years. He was just on Maryland. No one noticed. But Indiana. Indiana noticed and brought him in and put him around other really good players, and guess what? He's excellent. So they. So, like, there's still some JMU guys on the roster. Right. But they did such a good job in the off season of, like, upgrading the areas where they were clearly deficient last year when they had to go play teams like Ohio State and Notre Dame. Yeah, it's just like, it's. It's so much better. And it's mainly like an offensive line conversation. But that offensive line, like, you know, were they world beaters? No, but I thought they were gonna get their lunch eaten all day and Fernando was gonna have time to do anything, and that. That didn't happen. They ran the ball well. Around the ball, run the ball well enough, and they just, like I said, they appear to have the required speed or necessary speed you need to. To go compete for, like, actually compete for a national championship. So it was a good roster. They brought back more than people realized, and then they really upgraded in some key areas and. And ways that I don't think people were, like, accounting for as it was happening. But now Everybody knows.

[A]

Indiana 6X, Oregon 1, Indiana 24 pressures. They were in Dante, like, Dante Moore looks very average because they were in his face all day. And then also when they got in his face and they didn't let him run, they didn't let him get out of the pocket, make plays. 3 yards per carry rushing the ball for Indiana, but 2.7 yards per carry for Oregon. Dante Moore, with all those sacks he took, ended up with negative 27 rushing yards. And then you have Fernando Mendoza, who is just. I don't know. I mean, people are talking. I mean, Garrett Nussmeier stinks like hot garbage. No offense to Garrett Nussmeier and his family, but I just. What I can't do. I also am not thrilled. It's fine. Maybe I just need to unfollow draft analysts College football exists for something other than to put players in the NFL draft. And every half baked draft analyst, every time, like there's another quarter and they're like, oh, this is the new number one pick. And people like Fernando Mendoza, what if he's the number one pick? What do you think, Cleveland Browns fans? He's been compared to Kirk Cousins. Shut your hole. Can we just let the college football season work itself out? I don't want to think about Fernando Mendoza as the next Kirk Cousins. I want to think about Fernando Mendoza leading Indiana into the Big Ten title game at 12, 0 and being the 3 seed in the College Football Playoff. So anyway, and those people are allowed to exist. I just need to get them out of my feed.

[B]

Garrett Nussmeier, by the way, just in a battle with very average South Carolina team right now.

[A]

I mean, I thought Garrett Nussbauer and Lenora Sellers, I thought they were going to be co number one picks at the end of this season. Hot garbage. Wait till we get to the SEC part we're going to do. I'm going to do a little more SEC next week because we don't talk about what's happening in the Big Ten. I don't think Indiana lacks anything. I.

[B]

No, I don't think so either. Not ever tonight.

[A]

Kurt Zetti in the post game said last year he came out and talked it with a purpose because he was like, I want to be out in front. I need to be out in front laying something down, being the, the grand marshal of the parade so everybody can get line behind me. And then he's sort of saying like, I'm trying to. He was like, I'm not doing that this year. I was like, well, I don't know, you kind of are doing it. But that, that was with the purpose and this year. And he was doing it like in the offseason still, maybe. He probably hasn't done it as much since the season started. But this year he's like, we built up the credibility. You know, we lost to Ohio State, we lost Notre Dame last year. They played for the national title. That was it. But we built up this credibility. But, but to go do that, to go do a thing that even Ohio State didn't do last year, which is go on the road and win at Austin. Right? It is, it is a, like, it is a remarkable achievement for Indiana football. And I think we are beginning to postulate is this the greatest coaching turnaround ever engineered in college football history.

[B]

I mean, nothing comes to mind to compare it to. And I Honestly, don't even think we could properly articulate just like how much of an improvement this is. Indiana was awful. Indiana is the losing his program in the history of college football. And when Kurtzenetti took it over was at the bottom. Yeah. And they won 11 games last year. And even if you wanted to like, downgrade that based on their schedule, like, how could you possibly downgrade it now with what they've done so far this season? It's incredible. Like, so. So, yeah, nothing comes to mind. And I think like, when you're just talking like pure coaching chops in college football, like, I don't know, give me Kurt Signetti. Like, I, I like who. I don't think ever. There's not everyone in college football is doing this with this team. Yeah, this guy's. He's got something. So, yeah, I. Where it's going, I'm not entirely sure. But at the moment, Kurt Signetti and more importantly at the Indiana players like have have the Hoosiers as a bonafide national championship contender.

[A]

They are a bonafide national championship contender. So a couple things. One is we are possibly aimed at a 120120 Ohio State, Indiana, Big Ten championship game. We don't want to get ahead of ourselves. There's no reason to do that. There's upsets all over the place. But Indiana has already handled the most difficult things it's going to face. And Ohio State just took care of Washington on the road. Just took care of Illinois on the road. Penn State is not going to be what anybody thought it was going to be. They still obviously, that. That Michigan game, until proven otherwise, is obviously a very difficult game for Ohio State. But to think about that Landis, like, that's quite a place to be that we could see that game in Indianapolis.

[B]

Man, what a scene that'll be. Because I actually think, like, there's a conversation to be had about, like, what does a conference championship mean mean anymore. But the fact that like Ohio State hasn't won it in so long, if they ended up there in Indianapolis playing against Indiana, it would probably be the best Big Ten championship atmosphere we've ever seen. Like, probably not close.

[A]

And I think everybody realizes this. But. But if you were curious or wondering or doubting Indiana last year when Ohio. Indiana came into Ohio Stadium and couldn't handle the noise and couldn't handle the moment and couldn't mostly handle the Ohio State talent, I. It feels like, like right this. This Indiana team is a significant step past that because I feel like they retained d' Angelo Pons, Aiden Fisher, Mikhail Camara, Elijah Surratt. Like they retained so much of what made them good last year. And then they added Fernando Mendoza, which no offense to Curtis Roark, who was second team all Big Ten last year. That's an upgrade. Like Pat Coogan at center to bring him in for Notre Dame. That helps. Like they, they supplemented with some other things. They've had some other home grow up. As you, as you noted, I, I am sure that Ohio State fans, if and when that would happen, would certainly not take Indiana for granted. Somebody asked a question. God, you watch post game interviews. They're awful. Nobody asks football questions. Everybody just asks all Vibe questions, right? Yeah, all vibes. It's like, well there's.

[B]

You mean TV interviews or like the actual coaches press conference?

[A]

No, the presses, the news conferences. I watched the landing and the insignetti and I was impressed by neither. Somebody asked Signetti about like, what is this? What does this do for the haters and the doubters or whatever and I'm like, are there a ton of haters and doubters left for Indiana? They just, they like, they, they handled Oregon in Eugene, who is like, other than I don't have my bald cap. Other than that ding dong who's like, I don't know about Indiana. Everyone knows Indiana's good now, right?

[B]

I would hope so. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I'm sure you'll see. Yeah, we'll. We'll see. Actually, Oregon wasn't very good and what a gritty win for the Tide against Missouri in an active construction over there in Columbia. Missouri. But yeah, what was with that actually?

[A]

Were they working on the stadium during the game?

[B]

I don't know. It was pretty strange every time they showed that like the, the, the shot from behind the offense. Just. Yeah, it's kind of.

[C]

You just realized that you needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job post seen on other job sites. Indeed Sponsored Jobs help you stand out and hire fast. With Sponsored Jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates so you can reach the people that you want faster. And it makes a huge difference. According to Indeed data, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed have 45% more applications than non sponsored jobs. Plus with Indeed sponsored jobs, there's no monthly subscriptions, no long term contracts, and you only pay for results. How fast is Indeed? Well, in the minute I've been Talking to you 23 hires were made on Indeed. According to INDEED Data Worldwide. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit. To get your jobs more [e-mail] just go to indeed.comBWN right now and support our show by saying that you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.comBWN terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need.

[D]

Some things in life are just made for each other. Peanut butter and jelly, Macaroni and cheese Modelo and College Football College football season is Modelo season and the season has officially kicked off. The Modelo recruiter is back in action looking to reward full time fans who give their all for their team and their school week in and week out. If you're listening to this, you've been recruited. So lace em up and get out there and don't forget to make time for a well deserved ice cold reward because college football wouldn't be the same without you. So grab yourself a Modelo and enjoy the official beer. Sponsor of the College Football Playoff, Modelo.

[A]

The sec. The the SEC is a mess. Greg Sankey maybe quit like whatever making charts and get your league in order. It's an embarrassment to the sport. I thought that was a. It was just an absolutely tremendous win.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I could not be more impressed by Indiana and it just if they look, they look the part. They look the part. So the other thing is would you consider voting Indiana number one? They beat Illinois by more than Ohio State beat Illinois and they just went to Austin and one.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

As much as like Texas beating Oklahoma certainly helps Ohio State's resume or whatever. And it's not only like, well, this win got slightly better and this win got slightly worse. Like resume matters but also you watch teams and how they play. But you said that's the best win of the season. I. I'd think about it. I'm not sure what would stop. What would stop you from doing it actually when you think about it, given what, given just who they played so far and the way that there, that win is a great win.

[B]

Yeah. On the road. Yeah. I guess they took. I don't. I don't know that I would definitely do it, but I would. Yeah, I would. Absolutely. I would sit down for a long time and think about it.

[A]

Yeah. I think they're what, they're one two. They're one two one in some order. Is there anything else? I mean I went through, I watched that game. I took notes on every Play. I, I really tried to get a feel for that game and how it unfold. Like, one of the weird things is, you know, trying to handle that noise. Indiana had five false start penalties, but they weren't caused by the noise. They were caused by Oregon doing that defensive line shift right before the snap, which caused the Indiana offensive guys to. To shift. And then there was like a terrible pass interference that, that, that the officials missed on Oregon. That Kurt Signetti went nuts. And then when he got asked about it at halftime, it was sort of like a weird question whether basically, like, did you do that on purpose? He's like, well, you can't let that go.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And he was just like. He was like. I was yelling at him with the purpose. And then I actually thought they started throwing some flags on Oregon as a result, like, really well coached. And the other thing I wanted to mention, like, from a game standpoint, Mike Shanahan calling the plays offensively for Indiana and Brian Haynes defensively for Indiana. They kept those coordinators around this off season. Those guys came with Signetti. Right. They like, tremendous scheme, execution, just like really good football. And then the guys executed the plan. We've talked about it a lot with Matt, Patricia and Ohio State this year, but you could see the connection, I think, both sides of the ball with the guys calling the plays for Indiana.

[B]

Yeah. And Haynes is definitely a guy that teams made run, teams made a run at, including Penn State and I think, like, even Ohio State, I think kick the tires. At least two really good coordinators. Yeah. Like, the guy, the other guy was part of that offensive brain trust was Tino Sinceri, who went to ucla, got fired, and then the guy that replaced him now has ucla. Ucla, like the fourth best team in the big tent. So I don't really know what to make of that. What did you think of Dan Lanning kicking a field goal on fourth and two from the Indiana 16 to make it 1313 in the third quarter? That felt a little unleanning, like, to.

[A]

Me, but I thought that, I thought, Kurt Signetti does that to you. Right. I think, I think Kurt Signetti with his aggression and. Right. They were talking after the game. He had attack, attack, attack written on his hands. Guy's a psycho. Oh, my God.

[B]

Two. Two of the most psychotic coaches in college football.

[A]

But again, we talked about before the game, you were like, oh, Dan Lanning took his shirt off at game day. And it's like, that's not good.

[B]

Nope.

[A]

Because Kurt Signetti is not a guy who takes his shirt off. But Kurt Signetti is the guy who gives you side eye when you take your shirt off.

[B]

Spiritually, he always has a shirt off. He just doesn't actually have to do it.

[A]

Yeah. Spiritually, Kurt Signetti came out of the womb shirtless and never put a shirt on. 63 years of letting it all hang out. I, I just think you get a little Indiana when Indiana plays like that, they make you not be yourself as much. And I, I actually didn't have a problem with taking the points because, like, well, you know, you got to do this. But, but, but if it was it, to say that that's contrary to what Dan Landing would typically do, I think is correct.

[B]

I mean, they went for it on fourth down four times in this game and got it three times and like a fourth and two.

[A]

Right.

[B]

With a little momentum, they rather they chose to kick and tie it with like a decent amount of game left. I don't know. It's just like that, that when that happened, I was like, Indiana's gonna win that just that just kind of. And it was tied at the time, but it just felt like maybe the game was being played on Indiana's terms when that happened. Yeah.

[A]

And then again, like in Oregon got a pick six and Indiana bounced right back from it. Right?

[B]

Yeah. From Mendoza. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So just really good by Indiana and just like completely legitimate. And I think that the other thing is. And people have made this point. I think we've been talking about this. It's like one of the things Kurt Signetti, the first thing he said in this post game news conference was like, it's a great win for the program. It's a great run for the players. It's a great win for our fans and supporters. We have 800,000 people out there. It's the largest alumni base in, in the nation. I don't know if that's factually correct or not. I'm not an alumni base expert. But for him to say that one is I think is sort of like, so all 800,000 of you send us five bucks for nil because we just beat Oregon and you're going to go like puff your chest out about Indiana, about the university right now. But it's also a reminder, I think, of why can't Indiana start being good at football long term? Why can't this be Clemson? The Dabo Sweeney. What's Clemson? Greenville, South Carolina. Are you kidding me? I'd rather be in Bloomington, Indiana.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Dabo Sweeney, when he started winning at Clemson, wasn't like, well, I better leave for the SEC as soon as I get the 10 wins so I have a chance to actually go do something. He just established it. I know they had won a title in 1980 or whatever it was, but like he just re established it kind of out of nowhere and then won two national titles. So we don't have to talk about national titles. But when the playoffs expanded, when you have, if you can get your university and your athletic department behind you. I don't, I don't think Kirk Signetti has to leave to accomplish anything that he wants to accomplish. And, and I don't think Indiana is going to let him leave.

[B]

I don't think he has to leave. It's just a matter of what's the, what's the how many, how many zeros are on the, the number when the request to leave comes and can Indiana match that? Right. Yeah, but I don't, I don't think Clemson's a great comparison because Clemson rose up in an era where, where it wasn't as, it wasn't as open as it is now. Right. They have incredible support and as long as that continues and I don't really see why it wouldn't. In fact it should get stronger.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't think Indiana's going anywhere. Yeah.

[A]

No. So great win for Indiana. They'll be number one or two. And I certainly, we don't just, you don't always have to after everyone play the schedule game of like well I'll be this guy, this guy. I know they had Michigan State next because he was talking about that. But again, for them to go, go huge win over Illinois, handle business barely at Iowa, but handle it and then after an off week come and play this way against Oregon is a huge thing.

[C]

You just realized that you needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job post seen on other job sites. Indeed sponsored jobs help you stand out and hire fast. With sponsored Jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates so you can reach the people you want faster and it makes a huge difference. According to Indeed data, sponsored jobs posted directly on Indeed have 45% more applications than non sponsored jobs. Plus with Indeed sponsored jobs, there's no monthly subscriptions, no long term contracts, and you only pay for results. How fast is Indeed? Well, in the minute I've been Talking to you, 23 hires were made on Indeed. According to Indeed data worldwide. There's no need to wait any longer Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit. To get your jobs more [e-mail] just go to indeed.comBWN right now and support our show by saying that you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.comBWN terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need.

[E]

Listen, life's all about leveling up. Whether you're handling business on the field or kicking it in your zone, you like to celebrate with cigars that match the moment. That's why you should link up with Famous Cigars to bring you a wild deal. Right now you can grab eight premium cigars for just eight bucks. You heard that right. Eight top rated cigars at a dollar a stick. Top quality brands like Oliva, Romeo y Julieta and Davidoff. Hand picked just for you and worth over 80 bucks. Hit up famouscigars.com cam and lock in this exclusive deal. While you're there, check out their insane selection of premium cigars, all shipped fresh and fast from their massive 20,000 square foot humidor. That's half a foot for football field. Famous Cigars has been in the game since 1939 and still family owned. So celebrate every win with the folks at famous eight cigars for eight bucks. Famous cigars.com cam.

[A]

All right, you want to talk about Penn State?

[B]

Yeah, let's do it. Georgia's gonna win, by the way. It's 20 to 10.

[A]

Makes me sick. So coming into last year, Florida State was number 11 in the preseason polls and went 2 and 10, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Penn State's now 3 and 3 after national title aspirations. I think this might be as devastating a collapse in a single season as I've ever seen for any program in 20 years of college following college football.

[B]

It is for me. I mean, yeah, I've covered him about half that long, but yeah, because it's.

[A]

A combination of if you have like Clemson's collapse this year, but Dabo Sweeney still has two rings, right? And, and Florida State, like hadn't they'd been kind of trying to claw back up and they had all, you know, they should have made the playoff the year before, but that was kind of a one off and then they were ranked. You know, Penn State has been right at this point that everyone knows the pen, the point Penn State's been at. They win 10 games every year, but they couldn't get to the top tier of and to now fall off a cliff. Do you think there's a chance that James Franklin resigns on Monday.

[B]

Yeah, I think it's a pretty toxic situation there right now. You see some like, and I know like fans boo or whatever, but like it's been a, it's been a strained relationship for a while. And this is, this is like, this is, this is probably two or three or four, a hundred steps too, too far past where, where it should be. And also like it's a. Just like, you know, I lived there for five years. You can't hide. Like it's, it's an incredibly, like it just, it swell. It swallows you up. Like you can't. There's, there's no escape for him or his family. So do I, like, do I know for a fact that's going to happen? No. Would I be surprised? Absolutely not.

[A]

It, it certainly is part, I think of the discussion when after Ohio State lost to Michigan last year, around Ryan Day, if Ohio State had not gone on a playoff run and won the national championship. And it's like, is, is the school gonna fire this guy? It's like, well, no, the guy doesn't deserve to be fired. But could everything get to the point where it's such a miserable existence, neither the coach nor the school wants it to continue. And whatever the buyout is, and I guess it's over $50 million and the old ad gave him a 10 year contract out of desperation and people are mad about that. But if you can't live like this, I can't. You get one life. I can't live like this. There's no amount of money. I'm miserable. Every minute of every day I am miserable. And every time I leave my house or my family leaves my house, we are reminded of my failures. And I can't do this. We're not there. But you said Nicole Arbach mentioned this on the NBC show. John Sauber, who we know who's a great Penn State reporter, I read his story after the game. He mentioned the idea of was that James Franklin's last game in Beaver Stadium and what is now ahead for Penn State. They've played already a bunch of games at home. They only have two more home games left, but they're at Iowa next week, then they're off, then they're at Ohio State, then they're home against Indiana.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like they're three and three that they might be three and six. And so, yeah, I think they would be like, it's over. So then if it's over, I think the chances of James Franklin being the Penn State coach next year are probably 10% at most. So then if that's the case, it would make a little bit of sense to just everybody part ways right now.

[B]

Yeah. Because, well, the thing you don't have now if you're Penn State is like even if you thought, even if you thought that right, it's over when this season ends, it's over. But maybe if he go, if he still manages to get like 9 and 3, someone will want to hire him.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like maybe Florida lost again today. Right. The Florida opens or somebody like I think James will take an SEC job for available to him. Like they're not. No one in the SEC is going to hire him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For this season North Carolina might. Right. I feel like that's their best hope is that North Carolina, this is North Carolina, once Bill Belichick's done there, would want to hire, yes, Franklin. But that just does not feel like a viable option at the moment. So it would have to. Feels like it would need to be some kind of negotiation, I guess to see like how much money James Franklin is willing to give back to Penn State for peace of mind in a reset. I don't know. I don't know what that number would be.

[A]

And then I think, I think like, you know, feels like a take a year off, figure things out. Because that's the whole thing was like, oh, when he's winning 10 games, maybe it's time. It's not working out there. He'll go to usc. But like you said, who's. What fan base is going to be like, oh cool, we got the guy who drove Penn State off a cliff. Like you're talking about a Conference USA job or something for that. But also Drew Aller threw just a devastating pick on the first drive. Like they're marching down the field and he just throws. He like half clutched and then threw it. It was a terrible decision. He kind of was trying to thr back shoulder but from it was inside the 10 yard line. Like live to fight another day. The minute he hesitated, it threw the timing off and allowed the DB to make a play. It is just an unbelievably unforgivable decision for a third year starter to make. So they lost points there and then Northwestern during that game muffed the punt and set up Penn State on a short field. And then Penn State returned the favor and muff the punt and set up Northwestern on a short field and just these devastating mistakes. James Franklin didn't throw that pick. James Franklin wasn't the transfer receiver who just dropped the punt for no reason. They had a Kickoff that the guy caught in the end zone, hesitated and brought out to the nine yard line. But they had a drive at the end of the first half where Northwestern drove 58 yards to kick a field goal in the lot. Like to end the first half 30 yards. On that drive were a face mask and a late hit on Preston still in the Northwestern quarterback. They gained 28 yards and they got a field goal drive out of it, which was a huge field goal drive. The number of losing plays that Penn State made in that game was astounding. And I'm about to say, like, well, James Franklin didn't throw the pick. He created a program that as a four touchdown favorite made losing play after losing play after losing play and gave a game away at home to ruin their season.

[B]

Yeah, they, I mean like, just like they're. What Somebody, somebody asked James Franklin, I think either it is Monday press conference or on the Wednesday when he does at night, like, is your, like, do you feel like you have the culture to sustain like losing the UCLA game and rebounding and turning and keeping the season on track? And he said yes. And it's like all the stuff you laid out, you know, K. Tron Allen's like on the bench like laughing after the game. Like the one guy who's like played consistently well for Penn State this year is like on the bench laughing after the game. If they lose Northwestern, I saw it denied. Dennis Sutton was asked about how bad their run defense was and he said like, that's not my job. Like, they're just, they're just, they're done. They're done. I don't think anybody there wants, wants to play for him anymore or wants to try to salvage something this season. And now Drew Allers career is over. Because I thought he might have like broken his leg on that play. Yeah. So I, I, yeah, it's just, it's just a mess. I don't, I don't know, I don't know how they like obviously they're going to move forward and they're still going to play, but like I have, I have no idea what it's going to look like. Are they gonna, like. Andy Coltonicki has been terrible as the oc. Jim Knowles has been pretty bad this year. Right. Like, I don't, did they make coordinator changes and keep things Franklin? I have no idea. There's a lot of money invested, invested in both those guys. So I don't know. I don't know if Penn State's the kind of place that would spend the money necessary to, to make changes in season. But clearly something's got to give because I don't think they can go forward as they are right now.

[A]

You gotta blow it up. Gotta blow it up. It's just unbelievable. I thought Jim Knowles was terrible. They got in a cup. So Griffin Wilde's the only receiver that Northwestern has and. And like repeatedly they hit like three straight. So. So it's like the game's in the balance and. And it's not the first time that a Gym Knowles defense had done this. But the game is in the balance and Northwestern goes on an 11 play, 75 yard, 5 minute and 54 second touchdown drive. Right through the heart of Jim Knowles, his checkbook. And he repeatedly on that drive is setting up situations where he is bringing five guys. He can't help himself. He's bringing five and he's pressuring Preston Stone to create situations where the only thing Preston Stone can do is throw a slant in the middle of the field to the only receiver that Northwestern has in Griffin Wilde. And Penn State can't cover him. And there's nobody because he's bringing five. There's no linebackers, there's no safeties in the middle of the field. He's for. We've seen Jim Knowles do this. He pressures a quarterback into the only decision he can make and leaves that decision wide open. And it is frankly ridiculous. And then at the end of the game, the last drive when Penn State gets the ball back two consecutive plays, the play where Drew Aller got hurt, and then when Ethan Grunkmeyer came in on fourth down, Northwestern rush three, dropped eight and guess what happened? And they spied the quarterback and guess what happened? There was no throwing lane and then they rallied to the ball and tackled the quarterback both times. And Jim Knowles is like, I don't know, you want to bring seven? It's insane. He has no situational awareness. A situational awareness as a defensive coordinator. And I'm not so sure if James Franklin goes on Monday that Jim Knowles shouldn't go. I thought this was an embarrassing performance by Jim Knowles as a defensive coordinator.

[B]

I think all three should go. I just don't know if they're going to get. If they're going to get rid of all three of them.

[A]

Be the head coach.

[B]

I guess someone has to be the head. Well, they have. There's a. Terry Smith is there.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Penn State alum. He could be the interim head coach. There's a couple of former Penn State alums on the staff who I think would make sense as interim Head coaches just to like kind of get this thing to the end of, of this season. Yeah, bad Northwestern held the ball for 35 minutes. I, I've actually never really seen, I don't think I've seen like a, a stat, a final stat book where a team ended up only 5 of 12 on third down, but somehow held the ball for 35 minutes. They had multiple, they had three play, three drives that were double digit plays and I think two others that were a play. They were just on the field forever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think like that is a, that but that is a thing like Jim Knowles is impatient, right. You play a game like that and he just starts blitzing like crazy and puts his defense in bad position because he wants to get the ball back. So like Northwestern I thought actually did a nice job of kind of using that against him. But yeah, just, just in like what, whatever, honestly, whatever your game plan is, don't lose a Northwestern. But like they, it was compounded by some pretty bad coaching.

[A]

The play that I really was focused on third and eight on that last drive. They bring five, but they drop denied Dennis Sutton who, who's supposed to be their best pass rusher in coverage. And they get Griffin Wildy matched up with a red shirt freshman slot corner and allow themselves like, let's determine the game on this. And it literally go back and watch it. It's literally the only play that Preston Stone can make and Jim Knowles directed him right into it. 11 plays, 75 yards, 5 minutes, 54 seconds, $3 million.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So they're done. And I actually think like, best of luck to Girallor. Nobody wants to see anybody get hurt playing this game. It's a violent game, it's a physical game. I think he's so fried. I actually think, I hope the injury is not too severe. I think it actually might be for the best that Drew Allard is done playing football at Penn State because to try to run him out there like that, the page is turning and I think he is mentally fried and he is, you know, you are responsible for your own mistakes, but the lack of development, the lack of just that when you have a quarterback making the same mistakes in year three that he made in year one and that, that, that pick on the first drive just completely changed the game. That's not only him, that's the people around him. And you and I have talked about that. That's the quarterback's coach, that's the offensive coordinator, that's the head coach, that's the offensive line, that's Everybody not rallying to allow the quarterback to play his best, but best of luck to him. But this, I mean, he's, he's obviously a primary part of their failings, and I think it might be better for him to be done.

[B]

Yeah, I, I, it's unfortunate, like, to see anybody get hurt, but I think you're probably right again. And it's not even, it was a football conversation, but, like, it's a, it's a mental, like, psychological thing, too. It's just like, maybe for the best to not have to go through the rest of the season with the, the way that things are at Penn State right now. And I guess, like, Penn State now gets to see what Ethan Gronkmeyer is about and whether or not he's a guy that can build around for the future. If your season's going in the tank, I guess at least that's a useful part of it.

[A]

Just stunning, really. Just, just stunning. Okay. Is there anything else? Oh, this is why I said Drew Aller broke his foot. I was explaining to my wife, he broke his foot, he's out for the year. But I actually think it might be for the best. And my wife said, could James Franklin break his coaching foot? And that would be. It's like, oh, I'm out for the year.

[B]

What are you going to happen? What do you think's going to happen?

[A]

I am, I am not a Penn State expert by any stretch of the imagination when I see the people. Because here's the thing. It's like you saw watching the Penn State coverage this year. James Franklin was opening up and you saw the people on the beat writing personal feature stories about James Franklin in a way that, that you hadn't before. And now some of those people are saying, like, it's time, right? Some of those same people who I think know James Franklin, right, who aren't just like, ah, he's the coach or whatever. Like, they're, they're media people, I think have gotten to know him a little bit personally. And again, here's the thing. You and I were there with Ryan day after the Michigan loss last year. You and I came on the postgame show and we're like, I don't know if this can continue, right? And it's like, it's, it's, you, like, you can't navigate this anymore. It's just untenable, right? It's an untenable situation, which is different than this guy needs to go. It felt like an untenable situation. And then they went and did the thing and look at Ryan Day now. So you leave open, I guess, the possibility for that, but I have no how. Who thinks that could possibly happen?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And now that drew out, who thinks Penn State's going to go beat Ohio State and Indiana at this point? So I don't think there's a way that, that it can be rallied to change the perception. And then if it stays anywhere close to this, which is we went all in and you blew it, then it's over. And if you've come to the conclusion it's over, why wait? And then you can go sit on your couch or go to the Bahamas or something and start your mental rehabilitation. I. I think people are writing it. I think he's not Penn State's coach after Monday.

[B]

Yeah, that's kind of what I think, too. We'll see. His press conference is usually. Usually not. Usually it is on Monday. So my assumption is that he will not be doing that press conference.

[A]

Okay. Or you think he will be there to do it? Announce his resignation, or you think he won't be there?

[B]

Oh, I don't know. I think it would maybe be Pat Craft. Yeah. Or they'll announce something tomorrow. I don't know if part of it feels drastic, but, like, I just, like, it's really hard to see them moving forward. And I know people say, like, Penn State doesn't have, like, programs. Find the money. Everyone always finds the money. There are plenty of motivated people who can give you the money.

[A]

And also, like, you don't like to drag him kicking and screaming out saying, like, give me every bit of that 50 million. I don't think is the case either. Right. You negotiate a settlement and. And my guess would be James Franklin and Pat Craft come out together on Monday and announce a mutual parting of the ways that they both believe is in the best interest of the program. And they owe it to these players to put them in the best position to finish the year. And it is a difficult and toxic situation. And James Franklin feels like by removing himself from that situation, he will help everybody. And so he is going to like. And then he can fall on the sword a little bit and be a hero on his way out the door. And I don't mean it like I'm not taking a shot at James Franklin. It's just. It's not going to work anymore.

[B]

It's not.

[C]

You just realized that you needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring. Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job Posts seen on other job sites Indeed Sponsored Jobs help you stand out and hire fast. With Sponsored Jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates so you can reach the people that you want faster and it makes a huge difference. According to INDEED data, Sponsored Jobs posted directly on Indeed have 45% more applications than non sponsored sponsored jobs. Plus with Indeed sponsored Jobs, there's no monthly subscriptions, no long term contracts, and you only pay for results. How fast is indeed? Well, in the minute I've been talking to you, 23 hires were made on Indeed according to INDEED data worldwide. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed and listeners of this show will get a 75 sponsored job credit. To get your jobs more visibility at Indeed document, just go to Indeed.comBWN right now and support our show by saying that you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.comBWN terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need.

[E]

Listen, life's all about leveling up. Whether you're handling business on the field or kicking it in your zone, you like to celebrate with cigars that match the moment. That's why you should link up with Famous Cigars to bring you a wild deal. Right now you can grab eight premium cigars for just eight bucks. You heard that right. Eight top rated cigars at a dollar a stick. Top quality brands like Oliva, Romeo y Julieta and Davidoff. Hand picked just for you and worth over 80 bucks. Hit up famous cigars.comcam and lock in this exclusive deal. While you're there, check out their insane selection of premium cigars. All shipped fresh and fast from their massive 20,000ft humidor. That's half a football field. Famous Cigars has been in the game since 1939 and still family owned. So celebrate every win with the folks that at famous eight cigars for eight bucks. Famous cigars.com cam.

[A]

You want to go to USC? Michigan?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

So. So listen, USC like had five running back injuries and got down. Like I guess it was their number three running back who's a walk on. And they were just gashing, gashing the Michigan defense in a very interesting way. And it felt like a combination of them moving people around. Obviously Makai Lemon is a stud at receiver and they were running and throwing. Jaden Maeva made like one goofy play. But then they also put Bryce Underwood at quarterback in a situation where they put him under pressure and then it reminded you he's a freshman on the road. Okay, this is difficult. He Made some good plays, he made some bad plays. But I don't know what to think about USC on the road. But USC at home is like they're rounding into form. You thought, you said this week you thought they were getting back on track.

[B]

Yeah, well, I thought, I thought they got pushed around a little bit against Illinois, but, like, I don't again, it was like a 9 o' clock body, body clock game. It was a angry and desperate Illinois and I think like a USC team that was kind of just like going through the paces in that game. USC's A. Game's pretty good and. And I think we more or less saw that in this game. It is. It has been a rare feat over the last couple of years to see Michigan get pushed around the way it got pushed around rounds. I tweet, I tweeted it out toward the end of the game. So there have been. Since the start of the 2021 season, only two teams have rushed for 100 yard, 200 yards against Michigan. It was USC tonight and it was TCU in the College Football Playoff semi final in 2022. And Michigan State rushed for 199 in one game. But that doesn't happen a lot. And some of those runs, like, you really heard the pads popping and guys were really getting knocked off their spot. It was, it was a nice game for usc. I give him a ton because I was wrong about them. I thought. I, I think I said, like, if. If my Ava is not running for his life, then I think USC will be able to throw the ball in Michigan. And he wasn't. And he did. But I was not really confident in USC's ability to block Michigan. And they blocked them pretty darn well for the whole game.

[A]

At Notre Dame next week, then often at Nebraska. And they're also at Oregon at the end of the year. So they have three road games left and it's Notre Dame, Nebraska, Oregon. And so I don't.

[B]

But Notre Dame's a Night 3. Notre Dame's a night game. Nebraska is, I guess, only like two time zones, not three. And Oregon's like a traditional part of the game. Yeah, I think, I think USC can beat Notre Dame.

[A]

It's. We might be down to. And we'll do more. We do a playoff show on. On Tuesday nights of the four, like the fourth Big Ten playoff spot or Notre. Dame. Like, I don't know that that's exactly what USC and Notre Dame are playing for. But now this is a godsend for Notre Dame. Like, they should be glad that USC look great. They can't be like, oh, no. Like, this is. Notre Dame has a chance now to get a good win against usc, so they have to go handle business. But USC certainly is in position. Nebraska also survived. Nebraska survived against Maryland, and that was.

[B]

Back and one late. Right.

[A]

I think Dylan Raiola threw three picks and they still found a way to win. Like, they got a drive at the end. Right. So that's like a nice win for Nebraska. But, you know, if you feel good about. So Indiana and Ohio State are both 30 in conference play. USC is 3 and 1, and then a bunch of teams are 2 and 1 in the Big Ten. Oregon, Michigan, Northwestern, Nebraska, Washington, Iowa, Minnesota, UCLA, Illinois's 2 and 2, Maryland's 1 and 2, and then Michigan State, Penn State, Rutgers, Purdue and Wisconsin are all Owen, three in the Big Ten. What a mess.

[B]

I did see Evan Flood, who covers Wisconsin, I think for on three, said, like, Wisconsin improves to Owen three in the Big Ten and ties preseason favorite Penn State.

[A]

Yes. So, I mean, USC's. USC's firmly in that picture now.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Obviously, like, they've earned that right. And that would be a good repertoire. Like, that's. They'll give you trouble. They're not going to be an easy out. But I don't know about them. Regardless of time zones, regardless of how long the flight is, I'm not sure about them away from home. And they still feel like. Because it. Right when they were put Michigan away, then Maeva just made like a ridiculous flip when he was running out of.

[B]

Bounds and threw a pit, crazy, crazy.

[A]

Throw and kept Michigan in it. And it was like, that was right at the point of, like, I think it was 217 and they should have been putting Michigan away. It's like, okay, you're keeping them alive. What are you doing here? And against a team, I think with a. You know, obviously the Michigan passing attack has improved, but it's not consistent yet. And Justice Haynes was hurt a little bit for Michigan. So I don't know about USC against better teams, but that was a good win for usc and it really matters. Yeah, he's terrible. Oh, sorry. You want to say something, Something about usc? What's your last USA point?

[B]

I just think that I. We'll talk more about it during the week. But, like, I'm. I'm with you on, like, USC against very good teams. I think it's. I think it's a fair thing to sort of be cautious with. But that offense, when it's right, I think can score on almost any team. In the country.

[A]

So let's talk briefly about the SEC being hot, hot, hot, smoking hot garbage. And, man, I wish Ole Miss would have lost to Washington State.

[B]

People understand what Washington State is, right? Washington State is South Dakota State, I'll tell you. Yeah.

[A]

So Washington State. Washington State lost to Ole Miss 24 to 21. Washington State fell to three and three. Their previous losses were 5924 to Washington and 5910 to North Texas, and Ole Miss beat them by three. That's number four, Ole Miss, who's tied for first in the SEC? The. The three teams tied for first in the SEC at three. Zero are Texas A and M, who I actually think might be good. They. They are probably the. And then it's Ole Miss, who beat Washington State by three, and Alabama, who has a loss to three loss. Florida State, who lost to PIT today after they lost to Virginia and lost to Miami. So, like, the, like, tell me who we're supposed to be impressed by. Nobody. Right? There's nobody down there. They're gonna wind up sending people to the playoff. Nobody's good. For real. I'm not even being hyperbolic. Nobody's good.

[B]

Texas A. M is the team that I can say is good without, like, throwing up my mouth a little bit. But the rest of them.

[A]

That's fair.

[B]

Yeah. The rest of them, like, have. Have flaws, for sure. Like, like, you know, Texas got a nice window. It was good to see Texas get back up off the mat. Also, shout out to Oklahoma for playing a quarterback with a broken hand. I can't believe it didn't work out for you. Yeah, there's just. Like, I don't. It is a league that, like, I. I wondered is, like, if we got. As we got more and more into SEC play, if I actually might see these teams and see these games and think to myself, like, you know what? There's some parody, but there's some really good teams here. Like, teams worth taking seriously. And I do not feel that way.

[A]

And. No, no. Oh, good. Okay. I feel better. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'd be in. Like, it's embarrassing. It really is. And if it was happening in the Big Ten, like, we. We would have to call it out because it is a joke. These are the Oak. Yeah, they had one coming into this week. They had Ole Miss 4, Texas A&M 5, Oklahoma 6, Alabama 8, Georgia 10, LSU 11, Tennessee 12, Missouri 14, and Vanderbilt 20. There are no way. There's no way that those are nine of the best 20 teams in college football. Pull your heads out. What a collective. It's fix your league. You're dragging down the sport. This sport is popping and the SEC is dragging down college football. Get your stuff together, Paul. Tell Greg to get his stuff together. It's a joke.

[B]

Sorry. I was looking at scores and I was distracted. Utah putting it on. Arizona State right now. Yeah.

[A]

Sam Levitt's not playing right. Jeff Sims. You knew that. You knew that wasn't going to go well. I took that not minus nine and a half with Utah feeling good about those two dollars.

[B]

He's throwing the ball 17 times for 51 yards at the half. So good to go.

[A]

Wisconsin is on fire. Wisconsin has lost four straight games to Alabama, Maryland, Michigan and Iowa by a combined score of 126 to 34. And next up for they started two and oh, they've lost four straight. Their next games are Ohio State at Oregon and off week Washington at Indiana Illinois. I don't think Luke Fickles done before next week, but I think Ohio's. Could Ohio State end Luke Fickles tenure at Wisconsin if they take it to the Badgers too much in Madison because it's worse when it's at home.

[B]

This is why. Why would that be the straw? Right? Like this is a rival they just lost to. They got shut out for the first time in 30 years. Whatever you said it was. I don't know. I don't know why you let them get to that game. It'd be nice for Ohio State I guess if they could put Luke on the plane and bring him back and he's an analyst for the rest of the season.

[A]

Do you think we could have two coaching changes in the Big Ten on Monday?

[B]

Yes. I'm actually. I might actually feel stronger than Luke Fickle won't be coaching next week, than.

[A]

James Franklin because the thing would be. I mean it's just hard to get that turnaround. I don't know if it's like you make Luke coach against Ohio State and at Oregon and then they have an off week and it's like here you go. Play the two best teams in the country and we'll let the next. The interim coach take over after that. We don't want to put them in that spot just to. Just to watch. I. I mean I just had it.

[B]

Excuse but they are down.

[A]

I know. It's just. It's. It's just so bad. I can't. It's hard to believe how bad it got at Pens even though you kind of wondered. It's. It's something else to lose 37 and nothing at Home in Iowa.

[B]

Was a game time decision because he's so hurt and then he I think rushed for two touchdowns in that game.

[A]

And then I do want to give a little bit of a shout out the bottom five teams in our former KOTN preseason Big Ten poll, UCLA was 14, Rutgers was 15, Maryland was 16, Northwestern was 17 and Purdue was 18. Number 14 UCLA beat Michigan State handily on Saturday. Number 16 Maryland gave Nebraska everything it could handle and made Nebraska come back and win. Number 17 Northwestern beat Penn State and number 18 Purdue gave Minnesota everything it could handle. And Minnesota didn't win until Coy Parich got a pick six in the fourth quarter to break a 2020 tie. And this is the kind of thing that the SEC would, would say but the bottom of the Big Ten is well what we thought the Wisconsin's terrible. Michigan State is not looking good actually Rutgers I think is pretty competitive and they've had some tough losses and they're kind of a one dimensional team. Wisconsin I think is, I mean honestly it's like Wisconsin and Penn State who are the only non competitive teams in the Big Ten. Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan State's border.

[B]

Michigan State's. Michigan State got its butt kicked by UCLA today.

[A]

Yeah but I do think like it's a credit and it's just a reminder of like well ucla, well they got Nico Yamaliaba and like he now they're doing some stuff with him, right. And you look at like Purdue, Barry Odom's a good hire. Like Barry Odom has them playing much better than they were a year ago at Northwestern. Like they got Preston Stone in the transfer portal and like he played terrible at the beginning of the year but he's playing better. And they found like Anto Saka who's Northwestern's like best edge rusher didn't even play today and they won anyway. They went and got a, A div. An FCS receiver who's their best receiver. So like it's just a reminder.

[B]

Oh, Northwestern's got Purdue and Minnesota left. I don't. Yeah that might be their only chance to get a win but they can make bowl this year.

[A]

But like do you think that's true that it's like you and I had talked a lot about sort of like the middle of the Big Ten coming into this year. But like shout out to the bottom.

[B]

I think the priest the preseason bottom has been better. I mean maybe it will be thought of the preseason middle actually. I don't know. I guess the preseason middle is pretty good or about what we thought it would be. Minnesota's probably not. Probably. It's not as good as we thought they could be. I think Washington's about what we thought it would be.

[A]

I mean, we. We had Indiana in the middle. Indiana and Indiana's like third best team in the country. Ucla. We had UCLA in the middle, right? No, I think Michigan showed some flashes. Nebraska's found a way to be 5 and 1. I think the middle's been hanging in.

[B]

Middle's been pretty good. Yeah, but the. No, I think the two. I mean, obviously what's happening at UCLA is kind of incredible. The Purdue thing, like, Purdue's only got two wins, but they've been far more competitive this year than they were at any point last year. I think you gotta, like, you gotta dig into that one a little bit to see that it is. Is better, but it is. And Northwestern, I think, has already exceeded expectations by winning four games and beating Penn State. So, like, anything else is gravy from here on out. So, yeah, the bottom, the bottom's not terrible. We thought it might be terrible, and it's not terrible.

[A]

Indiana 6 0. Home against Michigan State next week. Home against UCLA, at Maryland, at Penn State, home against Wisconsin, then a week off and then at Purdue to end the season. So maybe somebody will jump up and bite him. But I think, I think that is the biggest, as much as the end of Penn State, I think is a bigger story, sort of like big picture to think that we're talking about. Like, is James Franklin's career at Penn State going to be over? I think for what's happening this college football season again? I just saw a couple people on Twitter who are like, I knew this was going to be a crazy season that you couldn't figure out. It's like, is it crazy or is it just like the defending national champs are the best team and everybody's chasing them? That there's part of this that is. Do you think so we did a whole Ohio State, Illinois post game show when that game ended. So we don't have to rehash Ohio State, Illinois here, but it feels like people are very, like, the SEC is a mess. Indiana just went and beat Oregon. Everybody was talking about Penn State in the off season and they're on fire. Clemson was a national title pick. They're on fire. Texas fell off a cliff and maybe revived itself today. And everybody's like, man, the sport's so crazy. And it is. But simultaneously, the defending national champions continue to take care of business. And I do think probably the appropriate way to analyze this season is everything is crazy, isn't it awesome? But also, by the way, Ohio State might just be repeating.

[B]

You feel you. How strongly do you feel about that? I guess like Ohio State, like we pretty quickly came around to the idea of like, yep, they have what they need to repeat. It wasn't like a call that they were actually going to do it. But have you gotten stronger in that belief as the season has gone on?

[A]

So I do think like the idea that you could see what good line play and some athletes and just poised quarterback play did to Oregon. Right. It was like, okay. And I, you know, I think there's a lot of like, I think a lot of what Indiana executed against Oregon is the kind of thing that Ohio State could execute. Miami, Miami remains like, man, if they just maul you up front on both sides of the ball, like, I'm not sure what that's going to look like. But I, it's, it's one of those. And we're going to have, you know, things on our, on our Ohio State sub stack with, with our Substack subscribers. You guys can find us there if you want more. Ohio State covered. Billandougosu.substack.com it's just like for Ohio State fans, it's still like, oh, I wish this play call was better. I wish this was better. And it's like you realize there are other programs that are on fire and the issue with Ohio State is like, oh, that second and seven call, I wasn't so sure about that. Or I wish their punt went eight yards farther. You know, it is like relatively minor things compared to what is happening across the sport now. I don't think Oregon is undergoing a reevaluation today. I don't think Dan Landing is looking himself in the mirror, taking his shirt off and saying, dan, where did we fail? I just think it was like they got got by a really good team. But I don't think, I don't think Oregon's going anywhere. But Ohio State has a lot going forward and does not have a lot of holes. And in a landscape where there's so much crazy stuff going on, a winning team without very many holes, I think every week you get a little more like, I don't know, it might be them again.

[B]

Yeah, no, I, I do, I do kind of feel that way. And we've talked about this last week when they just sort of like rose above the craziness, right? With big win against me, comfortable win against Minnesota and this was like a pretty, it was not the most aesthetically pleasing game in the world, but it was a pretty comfortable win on the road against Illinois. So, yeah, I think I, I would still put them at the top. You know, if someone said you have to pick a national champion on October 12, I would pick Ohio State right now. But the group of the, the group you would consider, I think is like real national title contenders. Gained a member tonight with or this afternoon with how Indiana played.

[A]

And there's no doubt about that, right?

[B]

Not for me. Like, I don't.

[A]

You would, you would State. I think Indiana could win the national title.

[B]

Yeah, I think they could.

[A]

Yeah, I think they could too, because I think their quarterback plays good enough. Yeah, I think their quarterback and their skill is good enough. They have playmakers on defense. I think they have two good coordinators and a head coach that knows how to get his guys ready for a big game. And they've been through it a little bit. Again, it's like, I don't know. And if their lines hold up and I think it was a reasonable thing to not be sure about how their offensive line was going to hold up, but they did. And so they get one sack. So if that's where you are, it's like the Fernando Mendoza, Carson Beck quarterback matchup. It's like, I don't feel good about Fernando Mendoza in that matchup. I feel, you know, Fernando Mendoza against Dante Moore, against Julian Santa, they would, he. That's just a thing because I think it was reasonable last year. It's like, you know, Curtis Rourke, he's this Mac guy, he's done this amazing job. But like when it, when it's really, really, really time, is that for sure gonna happen? But I don't think there's anybody who has those questions. Fernando Mendoza is an NFL quarterback.

[B]

Yeah, he's absolutely an NFL quarterback.

[A]

So it's like, okay, well, they have a first round quarterback and so they had like two NFL receivers and like five NFL defensive players. And their line, their offensive line held up. So I don't know. That's pretty good.

[B]

So, yeah, maybe, maybe if they, like, you know, we saw Ohio State's and Notre Dame's depth to get tested in major ways last year and they still got to the national championship. Is Indiana built to weather something like that? Maybe, maybe not.

[A]

That's a good question.

[B]

But assuming everyone is healthy and Indiana can, can play its best guys, I think, I think they can play with anybody. I'm not saying I would predict them to beat anyone they come into contact with moving forward, but I Think they can play with anybody?

[A]

I think Indiana wins a playoff game. I'll make that prediction right now, whatever that looks like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Maybe it's a 5 12, you know, maybe, maybe. So it's a first round game, but I think they win a playoff game.

[B]

Yeah. Because I think, I think they'll get a home game unlike last year. You know, again, it's assuming they don't, they don't fall off. Yeah. If Indiana had to play like, whatever, like this Ole Miss. Yeah. Oh, like the 4th or 5th SEC team or the 2nd ACC team or something like that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think they can beat those teams. Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Thanks, everybody, for joining us here on this show. We, we, we obviously are focused on Ohio State coverage, but we also want to check in on this kind of thing because we still have opinions about this, we still have knowledge about this, we still think it's interesting, and somebody has to tell the south to cram it, right?

[B]

That is correct, yes.

[A]

Because, I mean, I didn't sell them. I didn't sell them.

[B]

What do you think you can get?

[A]

Still got them on the open market.

[B]

They're game used.

[A]

They are game used. Maybe I'll go set up a booth at the Renaissance Fair, which is where I got them, at the Ohio Renaissance Festival, and then I'll be like, these are college football swords now, because, like, maybe I'll sign them. You think if I autograph the sword, that would up the value?

[B]

Yeah, sure.

[A]

Yeah. All right. Thanks, everybody, for being here. Thanks for hanging out. We'll catch you from a national perspective on our Tuesday night playoff show. We make our national picks on Friday. We did pretty good this week. We did pretty good this week, actually. At least I did. I was five and two, I think you were four and three maybe. So that's pretty good. We'll take it. Yeah, we'll take it. And then we have a bunch of Ohio State stuff on our sub stack on the YouTube channel. But we just want to remind you guys that, like, although we do a ton of Ohio State, we also want to check in on this stuff from time to time when it's needed because the north still rules college football. I'm sorry. Right.

[B]

Becomes too powerful. Yeah. I mean, how could you deny it?

[A]

I mean, I, I, I think Ohio State, Indiana and Oregon are probably all gonna make the semifinals.

[B]

Third straight north versus north, national title.

[A]

Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Paul. I'm sorry. The truth hurts. That's just how it is. All right, thanks, you guys, for being here for now. He's Bill Landis. I'm Doug Lemurice, and that was the Bill and Doug Show.