← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Penn State falls in 2OT to Oregon, Alabama takes down Georgia: College Football Postgame
01:03:35
Penn State-Oregon, Georgia-Alabama, Indiana-Iowa, Ohio State-Washington -- Doug and Bill break down a full day of college football on this postgame show. That Includes the Niitany Lions vs. Ducks and Dawgs vs. Crimson Tide coming down to the wire.
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- [00:00]
Douglas Maurice
Foreign welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show. A great night of college football. Bill Landis. We had the Oregon, Penn State game on the big screen. We had Alabama, Georgia on the second screen. Huge wins for Alabama and Oregon on the road. Georgia loses the longest home winning streak in college football at 33 games. Washington lost the second longest streak at 22 games. And the longest home winning streak now belongs to the Oregon Ducks, who just won at Penn State.
- [00:36]
Bill Landis
Oh, wow.
- [00:37]
Douglas Maurice
And you and I were discussing this because you and I were there for a game 11 years ago in Happy Valley that is so reminiscent of this Penn State, Oregon game that it's practically the exact same score.
- [00:51]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [00:52]
Douglas Maurice
And it is Ohio State winning at Penn State in double overtime in a game that was tied 17:17 at the end of regulation. Just like this Penn State, Oregon game was in that game, Ohio State scored first in the overtime. Penn State matched it. No, that's wrong. In that game, Penn State scored first in the overtime. Ohio State matched it. Then Ohio State scored in the second overtime. And then Joey Bosa ended the game with a sack.
- [01:19]
Bill Landis
Correct.
- [01:19]
Douglas Maurice
In this game, Penn State scored first in the first overtime. Oregon scored in the first overtime. You and I thought Dan Lanning would go for two to try to win the game right there. He did not. Oregon scores, and easily in the second overtime. And then Dylan Fenamin on an interception. It's 3024. Back then, it was 3124 Ohio State. Because back then you didn't have to go for two when you got to the second overtime like you did here. Let's talk about it from the Oregon perspective first, because we have a lot to say about the Penn State perspective. That game, in a lot of ways fueled. Man, there's a lot of similarities fueled. That national championship run for Ohio State. They had lost to Virginia Tech earlier that year, but like the year before, they had been right there and lost in the Big Ten championship game. Just like Oregon was right there last year. Urban Meyer, like a successful head coach, but looking for rocket fuel for a national championship contender. And there might not be any better rocket fuel in college football than winning in Beaver Stadium.
- [02:21]
Bill Landis
I don't know that there's better Rocky fuel, rocket fuel in the Big Ten, especially. Yeah. And it's not like Ohio State went through the rest of that 2014 season and ran everybody on the field. They did have some close games after that. They played at Minnesota and had to win close. But that was a watershed moment, I think, for that team and sort of the confidence it had in itself. The confidence that it developed in itself to then go on and win a national championship. And I would imagine this does something similar for Oregon. I don't know that we're sitting here now on September 27th saying Oregon's going to win the national title. Definitely. But I think Dan Lanning as a coach still very early in his tenure, had to answer some questions about an ability to win a game like that. Obviously, they beat Ohio State at home last year. He had not really won a game like that on the road yet at Oregon. And of course, like the last time people saw Oregon in a matchup game, they kind of got run off the field against Ohio State. So it was more of a prove it situation for Penn State. And they came up short, obviously. We'll talk about that. But it was a fairly large prove it situation for Oregon as well. And to do it in that stadium in that fashion, I think will. Will fuel them onto bigger and better things. But I don't know that either of us are surprised by that. Right. We knew Oregon was a good team coming into this, but there is a certain. I don't know, feel. Feeling of. What's the word I'm looking for? I don't know what the word I'm looking for.
- [03:41]
Douglas Maurice
Proof.
- [03:41]
Bill Landis
Yeah. Validation. Validation. Yeah, Validation that it's. It is among, if not the most difficult place to go win a game. Regardless of what you think of James Franklin. And for Oregon to do that with a young quarterback, pretty impressive because it's hard.
- [03:54]
Douglas Maurice
You can think sometimes that there are only certain coaches who have bugaboos. Right. So that Ryan Day. Once upon a time, can Ryan Day win the big game? The playoff run. Last year, the win against Texas. This year, this Ohio State win at Washington. The big game is not a question. Ryan Day still has the Michigan thing. Kirby Sparta has two national titles. He's one in seven against Alabama. That remains a thing for Kirby Smart. Dan Lanning, as good as he has been, he's still like he. He had the losses to Washington and back to back years. He has the playoff loss to Ohio State last year. He's won some big games, but this is a very validating win. And then of course, James Franklin still has all of that that he needs to overcome. Yeah, but it's not like as I think as respected as Dan Lanning is. This remains, and you could see it in Dan Lanning's face, the way he was talking after the game, the way he was celebrating how much this meant to him in the Oregon program. I do think Oregon for everything they've been. I think Oregon comes out of this game with this win with a new level of confidence and maybe a different team.
- [04:57]
Bill Landis
Yeah. And. And that sort of built on top of. Built. Built on top of being probably the angriest team in the college football based on how their season ended last year. Right. So this is just another layer to them and, and trying to push them to. To get a little farther than they went last year. But yeah, you don't get. You don't see a lot of coaches doing the throat slash motion on the sideline. Dan Landings was premature, but in the end he was proven right to be.
- [05:24]
Douglas Maurice
Got to be wary of the premature throat.
- [05:25]
Bill Landis
You do? Yeah.
- [05:26]
Douglas Maurice
Noah Eagle was trying to tiptoe around it. You were like, Dan Lanning just did a throat slash. And Noah Eagle is like, I believe he just touched his neck. And you're sitting here in my basement saying, that's a throat slash. That's a throat slash. Dan Lanning, the. The TV postgame interview says our quarterback is an absolute all star. Dante Moore, 29 of 39, 248, three touchdowns, 10 carries for 35 yards on the ground. No surprise there. But like, not really moments where it looked too big for him. Not really moments where he looked harried very much. He is a threat in the run game. You really saw him. We were sort of talking about that from an Ohio State perspective. Both those teams in some short yardage plays were staying in the shotgun and letting. Calling some QB power, some QB draw, or they're letting the quarterback make a read and just run it. It's like, oh, how could Ohio State get to that with Lincoln Keenholtz or maybe with Julian saying at some point.
- [06:19]
Bill Landis
Right.
- [06:19]
Douglas Maurice
It's a. But like, Dante Moore is such a weapon there. I thought I found it interesting because we're going to talk about Drew out and James Franklin for Dan Lanning to. To specifically express that emotion. Our quarterback is an absolute all star. That again, it was a big test for Julian saying to go into Husky Stadium on the road. And he passed that test on Saturday afternoon. Dante Moore has played on the road before. He made five starts at UCLA two years ago. But like, to pass this test, I feel like Dan Landing said our quarterback passed this test.
- [06:50]
Bill Landis
Yeah. And they felt, or it seemed like anyway, like, like, you know, you watch the OHI State game in the first half. I think they were clearly trying to not put too much on Julian saying. And then when they did in the second half, things opened up. I don't know that Oregon ever felt like conservative with its approach to Dante Moore in this situation. Also, Dante Moore is older and has made more starts than Julian, saying this was not Dante Moore's first row start, for instance. So it's not exactly the same thing. But I thought he played incredibly well, spread it around well too. Eight different receivers. He threw the ball too, so I never really thought he looked all that rattled. And even like late there, I guess it was an overtime. Like they had that fumbled exchange and a ball got put on the floor. They kept running them. So we said like in our preview right. Coming into the weekend that Dante Moore has not achieved career wise as much as like Dylan Gabriel and Bo Nicks. But if you just assess the three different player. The three different players, there's clearly more in terms of Dante Moore ceiling than what Oregon has had a quarterback in Dan Lanning's other season. So he's still learning, he's still developing. I'm sure he might have moments of struggle, but this was a heck of a performance for a fairly inexperienced quarterback in a tough place to play.
- [07:54]
Douglas Maurice
Oregon's not quite as dink and dunk with Dante Moore.
- [07:57]
Bill Landis
No, I did, I did think that there was not the. There have been times over the last couple years where you would watch Oregon's offense sort of operate with a lethal efficiency and that. That's not how it looked tonight. But when plays need to be made, they were made again.
- [08:12]
Douglas Maurice
Dante Moore, 29 of 39, 248, three touchdowns to Corian Moore, living up to every expectation as a true freshman receiver. Oregon, seven catches for 89 yards. Gary Bryant, huge catch at the end in the second overtime for a touchdown. 6 for 55. Kenyan Sadiq, who you believe is the best tight end in the country. Yeah, six for 49. But this is a Penn State conversation. And I think that you and I, I don't know if. I don't know if learned lessons is the right way, but you come off. You come off. I game like this and a night like this and we are going to talk about Bama Georgia a little bit because I did get my hat and we do have our swords. Listen, just because the name of the show is different doesn't mean we don't have the swords. Oh, Georgia lost. Take that hat off. This is a Penn State story. So there's two, there's twists and turns in the Penn State story. The first is they still didn't win. They can't beat the best teams. They still didn't win. This is not going away. This Problem was not solved. They are Now, I believe, five. James Franklin is five and 20. Now, let's see. Five and he's four and 21 against top 10 teams. Now James Franklin is. Oregon was ranked number six going into this game. Penn State fans were booing Penn State. We were. We have a lot of colleagues that we respect who do a great job covering the Penn State Nittany Lions. And they had reached a point. We were just following their tweets, and we were like, oh, wow, the Penn State beat is out on Drew Aller.
- [09:57]
Bill Landis
Yes.
- [09:57]
Douglas Maurice
They were tweeting things about. Dante Moore has never played an environment like this. He's made eight career starts. Drew Allers made 33 career starts. How is Dante Moore out playing? Drew Allergies. They're getting booed. You are. We are in the territory of. Is this the straw that breaks the camel's back? And then Penn State scores two touchdowns in the fourth quarter to send it to overtime? And. And then it's like, they're back. And then the exact kind of throw that a veteran quarterback can't make in that situation, the exact kind of mistake. It's not dissimilar from the interception that Drew Aller threw against Notre Dame in the playoff semifinal last year to end a game. A game they played three patsies the last two times. They played great teams with the game on the line. Both games ended with Drew Aller interceptions. So I do think Penn State gained a decent degree of something by coming back and forcing overtime and not laying down. But then a decent chunk of that came back up with the way that ended.
- [11:08]
Bill Landis
Yeah, it almost all gets, like, kind of erased. Right? Like, it's. That's just a bad throw. And then you. And then you. You watch the fourth quarter and you think to yourself, like, well, that looks all right. Drew Aller.
- [11:17]
Douglas Maurice
Yes.
- [11:17]
Bill Landis
But then you. Then you get away from that because they lost. And you go back and assess the entire body of work, and he threw the ball 25 times for 137 yards. He's like, we. I think I might have said it when we were previewing the game. Like, I'm not convinced he's gotten any better. And in some respects, he looks like might be worse because he's actually got some decent receivers and he still can't get on the ball. And there's a larger conversation, too, about Andy Coltonicki's offense we maybe don't have to get into right now, because it is. I think all the Penn State conversation is going to be about Drew Aller. And his lack of progress and the way that he doesn't really show up in these big games. But you thought for a moment that like after three quarters of really bad play, like he might ascend to something different in that fourth quarter. And then he gets the opportunity to march Penn State down for a win and his first pass gets picked off.
- [12:04]
Douglas Maurice
So I had said during the course of this, they get down two scores. They're down 17 to three. And then drew Aller leads a drive right down the field. And I said, nothing activates Drew Aller like getting down two scores.
- [12:15]
Bill Landis
Yes.
- [12:16]
Douglas Maurice
The game a couple years ago in Happy Valley, that was, I think. Right. It was his first year as a starter. Was Mike yours? It's last. Maybe that game was it. No, that game was in Columbus. It was the last game. I think for Mike yours, it's the offensive coordinator before he got fired by Penn State. Maybe, maybe he had one more game.
- [12:30]
Bill Landis
But anyway, that was Clifford. They did 22. The JT3 mobile game.
- [12:36]
Douglas Maurice
No. So the game, it was in Columbus in 23. It's either first year as a starter, they do nothing the whole day and then they get down two scores and they finally like unleash Drew Aller a little bit.
- [12:45]
Bill Landis
Oh, like for the last drive. Yeah.
- [12:47]
Douglas Maurice
It was like he leads him right down the field for a score that kind of doesn't matter. Right, right. And so it's sort of like, man, like when it's, when it's over, Drew Aller's like, haha, no it's not. And I said, okay, well that he's a, he's a down two scores quarterback. Can he be a down one score quarterback? And then he was. And then they followed the touchdown drive with another touchdown drive to tie it. Now again, there's some good play calling at the end. And there's a lot of stuff here with Penn State that is the good and the bad all wrapped up in one.
- [13:16]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [13:17]
Douglas Maurice
Because Drew Aller. Drew Aller is exactly the kind of quarterback who is good enough that you can't give up on him, but not good enough to trust him. And he, it feels like in this game the end result might be just keeping Penn State fans on the hook. You can't wash your hands of Drew Aller after this. The way he led two touchdown drives at the end of the game. And there are moments he's 6 5, Landis is thinking about hand washing. There are moments he's 65 where he stands in there and rips a throw. And it's like that's it. That's everything you want in a quarterback. And then there are. And again he's good enough as a runner that you can use his physicality to get him downhill a little bit and he'll do some stuff and I'll. I think he'll stick his nose in on stuff, right? Like I don't think he's.
- [14:04]
Bill Landis
Yeah, he'll fall forward, he'll, he'll run hard.
- [14:07]
Douglas Maurice
But there's too many times where it's not consistent. It's not when you need it the most. And that last pick of man that you're not so sure that couldn't have been picked off by three different Oregon guys. What even is that throw? It's not even really there. How does he not see the underneath coverage? But even if he doesn't see the underneath coverage, I think the guy running with Luke Reynolds was had good enough coverage. Like how can he make that decision? Penn State fans are trapped. I don't know what the answer is to this other than ride this out through the end of this season and hope for something that feels like it's not going to come.
- [14:42]
Bill Landis
I mean they're not going to make a quarterback change. I think that I'm not no, no one Penn State fan or otherwise. I guess hold your breath for that. This, this is how Penn State is going to roll through the season and maybe they'll go back to the drawing board. I think they have another week off before the Ohio State game as Ohio State does. So maybe they'll try to land on a better plan and a better offense that suits Drew Aller. But they're kind of in year three of doing that at some point in the season. And here's another game where like took too long for Penn State to get its receivers involved and like in the end they weren't really involved. Devonte Ross scored twice. One of them was on a run play. He was a leading receiver. And then there was a running back and a tight end and another running back in there Like Penn State's offense remains in a spot where its quarterback struggles to meet the moment and it's inverted offense where it had where it has its best receivers and running backs and his best running backs and receivers.
- [15:32]
Douglas Maurice
But so it's like I think there, there can be and there's always some frustration with the Andel Coldw Nikki offense. But then the play call that scores the tying touchdown in the final 30 seconds in the red zone is the kind of red zone ingenuity that like we talk about. Hey, like that's what Ohio State needs to do. Right. That really could have been a real grinded out situation. Instead, they run a count look like.
- [15:53]
Bill Landis
Their goal line stuff against Ohio State last year where they just ran the running back into the middle of the line four times.
- [15:58]
Douglas Maurice
Oh, exactly right. And they did learn from that. They said they did learn from that. But like, that was a great play call. And then they didn't put it on aller. It's a little flip. The. Was it officially a run?
- [16:08]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think so.
- [16:09]
Douglas Maurice
Actually. It's a handoff to Ross on like a counter.
- [16:12]
Bill Landis
Oh, no, I guess it was. It was char. It was like a one. It was a shovel.
- [16:16]
Douglas Maurice
Shovel pass. Yeah, but like that's a great play call. That's like all the best of Penn State coming together. And it's immediately followed by all the worst of Penn State coming down. Now, they did score once in overtime, which is credit to them, but it's just so incredibly frustrating for Penn State fans right now. And. And I feel like. And I was looking up the numbers a little bit on this because in talking about it's such a James Franklin conversation and ultimately the buck stops with the head coach. We know that it should. That's the way it goes. But now that he is 4 and 21 in these games, these are his starting quarterbacks during this stretch of James Franklin's career at Penn state where he's 421 against top 10 teams. Christian Hackenberg was 0 3, Trace McSorley was 2 and 6, Sean Clifford was 1 in 6, and Drew Aller is now 1 in 6 points scored per game. Christian Hackenberg scored 12 points per game while going 03 in those games. Trace McSorley, 26 points per game. That includes a huge shootout with USC and Sam Darnold in a Rose bowl that they lost. That again, is like probably one of the best losses in Penn State history. You can go on a big stage and play a play lights out against a great team and lose and feel good about it. I think that qualifies. They also had like the 39, 38 shootout with Ohio State that they g away at the end, but they also put up 38 points in that game. So trace McSorley's 2 and 6, 26 points. Sean Clifford, 1 and 6, 24 points per game. His only win against the top 10 team was the last game he ever played in the Rose bowl against Utah. Maybe it wasn't the Rose bowl, it was a bowl. And then drew Aller, 1 and 6. His win is against Boise State. In the playoff last year, 22 points per game coming into this, they scored 24 tonight. But one of those is an overtime. So it's 17 in regulation. It didn't move it much. So anyway, my point is this. Christian Hackenberg was a specific kind of quarterback. NFL body, second round draft pick, stand in the pocket, make throws. Trace McSorley is a classic college quarterback. He's wiggly, he can run, he's a great leader. Right. It's that kind of thing. And it feels like maybe in that moment, did you feel like there's a ceiling on the Penn State program? There's a cap. If you play with a quarterback like that, we want more. Like when they adjustin fields as recruit, it's like, can they get the five star guy who can maybe push it down the field a little bit? Now they trace McSharl, they had Saquon Barkley, Chris Godwin. Sean Clifford is a step, is like a step. Sean Clifford got drafted. He's in the NFL as a backup quarterback. He's a step past McSorley. McSorley's in the NFL. He's like a special teams wrinkle guy, right?
- [18:53]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [18:54]
Douglas Maurice
And now Aller, who people talk about at NFL quarterback, is like a step past Clifford. But really what's happening, and we've had this discussion for many shapes and forms, Bill. I think sometimes nothing can hold a program back like mediocre quarterback play because you can't get away from it. You can't make a change. It's too good to make a change, but it's not good enough to get you over the top. And the other part of it says Penn State twice now has had a backup quarterback who is much more mobile that they used as a wrinkle. But they never decided to go to who then as soon as that guy left, he looked better than the starter. It happened with Will Levis going to Kentucky with Sean Clifford. It's now happened with Bo Peela going to Missouri and Drew Aller. Clifford and Aller were never bad enough to make a change, which means Levis and Prabula could never get on the field. And they're both more mobile, they're more wiggly, like Trace McSorley. But Penn State wants more than Trace McSorley. And the result is Trace McSorley might have won this game.
- [19:53]
Bill Landis
I think it's quite possible that Trace McSorley or a quarterback like him could have won this game. Like Drew out can run a little bit. Clearly he did run a little bit in this game, but he doesn't have, I don't know if that's what's the right word for it. There's like a, like an X factor kind of quality about a McSorley and even about Prabula and Will Levis. Like none of those three are like prototypical NFL kind of passers, right. And Aller has not yet proven himself to be that. But that was the idea of Drew Aller, right. And it's like gotten Penn State nowhere. And, and in the meantime also they brought in like a bit of a gimmicky offensive coordinator who's like greatest successes as a play caller offensively came when he was like running two quarterback systems with guys who could scoot and run around a little bit in Jalen Daniels and Jason Bean. And it's like, I don't know if that coordinator and this quarterback like marriage wise, like ever quite made sense. And of course you re litigate that now with the games of evidence that we have. I don't know if anybody brought that up in the moment, but I think you can talk about it now and it just maybe is a square peg ground hole situation for Penn State, I'm not entirely sure. But it's not like they have that different style of quarterback to even turn to now if they wanted to entertain that idea because his backup is Ethan Grunkmeyer, who I think is more or less like the same style of quarterback or at the very least like he's not Will Levis or Bo Priula, which is like to say they have to figure out a way to move forward with Coltonicky and Aller together to get to Pence, get Penn State to where it wants to go. But how could you possibly be confident in that with what we've seen the last two years?
- [21:29]
Douglas Maurice
So it's, it's very, I think similar to what Ohio State did after J.T. barrett. I think a Trace McSorley J.T. barrett comparison is, is pretty apt, right? It's fairly, it's a great leader, real run threat, certainly can throw winning quarterback, right?
- [21:46]
Bill Landis
Winner, win, tough winner, tough winner. Yeah.
- [21:49]
Douglas Maurice
So Ohio State elevates past that. They decide, right, we're going to bring in Ryan Day. Urban Meyer says we've got to throw it better. But when they try to elevate, they go Dwayne Haskins, Heisman finalist, first round draft pick, Justin Fields, Heisman finalist, first round Draft pick, C.J. stroud, Heisman finalist, first round DRAFT pick. Now interestingly, none of those guys won a national title. And then when they got to Will Howard, it Wasn't the Heisman finalist. It wasn't a first round draft pick, but was maybe closer to J.T. barrett than any of those.
- [22:21]
Bill Landis
He was a tough winner.
- [22:22]
Douglas Maurice
He's a tough winner. They win a national championship.
- [22:24]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [22:25]
Douglas Maurice
So Penn State's attempt to elevate has not led to. They've only. They've only threw two quarterbacks. Right. Because Sean Clifford played four years and this is three years of Drew Aller. They're in the seventh season of trying to elevate past Trace McSorley. And they have in some ways, but they haven't in others. And again, it's not that Trace McSorley was out there beating top 10 teams either, but I think they maybe said.
- [22:46]
Bill Landis
Themselves it was their best offenses, though it wasn't even close when they had Joe Morehead.
- [22:50]
Douglas Maurice
Yeah, 100% better like a coordinator who fit the better skill around him in some ways. Although Katron Allen, Nick Singleton, Luke Reynolds, these. Trevor Pena, like they should have enough.
- [23:01]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [23:02]
Douglas Maurice
But they have not elevated the same way. And so now, and it's just. Gosh, I could talk forever about attempts to elevate when you are what you are and you want to be more. And in the pursuit of more, you lose a bit of what you were. So the Penn State quarterback situation, the entire program at Wisconsin, if you are now Penn State, do you continue to try to elevate with guys that you think of as future NFL quarterbacks or should they be looking for their next trace McSorley? Because who cares about being an NFL quarterback factory? We want to win a national championship and maybe that. Maybe more of a run threat. Maybe they'd be a better. Would they be a better national championship contender with Bo Prabula, who is a heck of a more lot. Much more like Trace McSorley.
- [23:46]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think I. Yeah, probably as crazy as that might sound. Yeah, I think they would be. And I don't know, is it a conversation about elevating relative to what you want a quarterback, or is it more of a conversation of you have this very specific kind of offensive coordinator who I think probably needs a very specific type of quarterback for that system to run well, and you got the quarterback first and then the coordinator and the two things haven't. Haven't really melted together in the way you like them to. So then do you go to Cold and Nikki and say like, what do you need like. And whatever that is, you seek that out on quarterback? It probably is somebody more like a Prabula or a trace McSorley. I just don't think it's a statuesque pocket passer who like can't read a defense. Won't push the ball downfield when the opportunities are there. But.
- [24:34]
Douglas Maurice
And now we're, now we're back into. I could talk about this till 3 o' clock in the morning at Ohio State. When you do that, you are doing it. So you start doing it. You know, Dwayne Haskins is recruited under Urban Meyer, but he's, he's unleashed by Ryan Day.
- [24:49]
Bill Landis
But then they, and they change the offense.
- [24:51]
Douglas Maurice
They change the offense to fit that. But then when Urban Meyer changed that offense, he could have been in fear of like, well, what are we going to do if Ryan Day leaves? We're changing the offense and we have a quarterback now to fit Ryan Dable. What are we gonna do when Ryan Day leaves? Right. Instead Ryan Day becomes the head coach. And that offense is never going to leave because it's Ryan Day's offense.
- [25:07]
Bill Landis
Right.
- [25:08]
Douglas Maurice
This is not James Franklin's offense. James Franklin certainly has some ideas about things and he's an offensive minded head coach, but he has had various coordinators who have done things various ways. So the minute you get an Andy Coatlnicki quarterback, Andy Cottonicki is gonna go be the head coach at.
- [25:29]
Bill Landis
What?
- [25:29]
Douglas Maurice
Yeah, sorry, not our dog. Lost a big lead at Louisville and then now what do you have? Now you have an Andy Copelnicki quarterback without an Andy Kolnicki offense. Which becomes the difficult thing of when you're trying to find an offensive identity. But your offensive identity is not built around the identity of the head coach.
- [25:48]
Bill Landis
But I just don't understand how it's been so difficult for Penn State to formulate an offensive identity over the course of multiple coordinators and multiple quarterbacks with different styles when they've done it on defense.
- [25:58]
Douglas Maurice
Isn't that crazy?
- [25:59]
Bill Landis
Doesn't make any sense to me.
- [26:00]
Douglas Maurice
Because you were saying, and this is now, this is a positive, you respect the fact that Penn State has managed to forge a defensive identity through multiple coordinators.
- [26:08]
Bill Landis
I think it is one of the more under discussed things in college football. How consistently good pen defense has been under what I think is now four different defensive coordinators for James Franklin when James Franklin is not a defensive head, not a defensive head coach. Like it's not a, it's not a saving Kirby smart situation where the guy just comes in and runs that head coach's defense. He has been smart. I think James Franklin about finding defensive coordinators with a similar sort of like ideological thread, which again, maybe there's A lesson in there about how to handle your offense. But they just. They've just not handled the offense the same way. And it's been a thing that's held back the program for four or five years now.
- [26:47]
Douglas Maurice
So I do think, again, this is not to make this not a James Franklin conversation, because he can't escape that. I'm sure he's not trying to escape that. He knows his record. And again, 4 and 21 against top 10 teams at Penn State. But it is, I really do think, because I thought this happened. Where I went the first time I really started talking about this was when Juice Williams in 2007 at Illinois beat Ohio State. I think he was a redshirt freshman maybe. And then Juice Williams wound up being the quarterback at Illinois for like another three years and never really got better. And they were so tied to Juice Williams because you had moments or a game where you said like, wow, that guy can get us to that point. And then you are waiting for it for the rest of his career and the result is bogs you down a little bit. And I do think Sean Clifford and Drew Aller have simultaneously allowed Penn State to be winning programs for the last seven years. That's seven years of two quarterbacks. They are key factors in why that Penn state program wins 10 games a year. But I also think they are key factors in why that Penn State program doesn't win these big games. Because when it comes down to how often does a game like this come down to our quarterbacks got to make a play?
- [28:09]
Bill Landis
Often.
- [28:10]
Douglas Maurice
And how often do you feel like Penn State has the edge in that.
- [28:13]
Bill Landis
Battle in games like this? Hardly ever. I mean, it's, it's the, it's the high, high floor, low ceiling thing. Right. Which is a fine territory to be in if all you ever want to do is win 10 games. Right. But that's not what Penn State wants to do, especially this season. This is the biggest sort of like magnifying glass, I guess. All that's been under because Penn State has not really ever had the national championship expectations that it had coming into this season. But this issue is nothing new. There has always been a bit of a cap on that team. Yeah. That I do think people have attributed to James Franklin. I'm not saying it's been unfair, but it's also a quarterback conversation and it.
- [28:56]
Douglas Maurice
Always has been because there's the. You're the head coach, you're in charge of everything. If you've created a situation of high floor, low ceiling quarterbacks, you're responsible.
- [29:06]
Bill Landis
Sure. It's your. You made it. Yeah.
- [29:07]
Douglas Maurice
But they're also, sometimes it's sort of an in game situation. James Franklin as a coach for three and a half hours situation and James Franklin didn't throw that pick.
- [29:14]
Bill Landis
Right.
- [29:16]
Douglas Maurice
So. And there's just been enough circumstances where you can feel that a little bit. And it is not a. I don't, I don't know. That's a. It's not a hopeless situation for Penn State. But at some point you start waiting for something different to happen. And so the loss itself here. I'm going to have a trivia question for you in a second.
- [29:42]
Commercial Announcer
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- [30:49]
Douglas Maurice
The loss itself you lost to Oregon does not really do much of anything to Penn State. Certainly it will come into play in terms of who's going to make the Big Ten championship game.
- [31:00]
Bill Landis
Well, I don't know. I think largely you're right. But doesn't it. I think people came into this season curious about whether or not Penn State was going to take the next step, which probably has to include winning one of its games against Oregon or Ohio State.
- [31:18]
Douglas Maurice
But, but Also I think 10 and 2 Penn state that loses to Ohio State and Oregon goes to the playoff.
- [31:24]
Bill Landis
You sure?
- [31:25]
Douglas Maurice
If Indiana is Indiana, that's a good win. But also are they going to beat Indiana?
- [31:29]
Bill Landis
Right.
- [31:31]
Douglas Maurice
So like I don't. It's not the loss itself, but it's the continued. It's because like you try to be like, listen man, they're really good. They really are. And they lost in double overtime. You know, they rallied. They didn't slink away. Their own fans were booing them. Justifiably. And they found a way. Like, there's a lot there, but also they lost and they, they made the critical mistake at the end, but they have to fight through that. And I don't know, it's not the loss, it's the continued beating your head against the same wall, beat against the ceiling, you're hitting your head. And it, it, you know, we sort of talk the preseason is all about. Well, just because you haven't done it doesn't mean you can't do it. But every time you have a chance to do it and don't is another block that you now have to overcome. So now when they come to Columbus, when they, when they host Indiana, this Oregon loss, Drew Aller throwing a pick to end the game is going to be another thing they have to overcome.
- [32:34]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I, I don't, I, I don't. I don't know that I feel great about 10 and 2 Penn State definitely being in. To be honest, I think, I think.
- [32:42]
Douglas Maurice
We'Re gonna beat undefeated Indiana after Indiana goes Indiana.
- [32:45]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think Indiana is now Penn State's best friend because, like, I don't. Nothing I saw today makes me think Penn State can go to Columbus and beat Ohio State. I definitely think they can beat Indiana at home. But what's that, what's that going to mean?
- [32:59]
Douglas Maurice
Don't you disrespect Indiana.
- [33:01]
Bill Landis
I'm not, it's not about what I think. It's about the people. What the people who make the play. And also they're not supposed to take into account what they think Penn State might do when it gets to the playoff. But I also wouldn't be surprised if that's a hurdle they feel like they need to overcome as they're discussing Penn State. Like, you need to show that you're a championship caliber team at some point. And like Penn State has yet to do that well.
- [33:24]
Douglas Maurice
But I don't know if you have to show your championship caliber team because there's all kinds of championship caliber teams, not there's all kinds of non championship caliber teams that get in the playoff. Right. Like, we don't know.
- [33:36]
Bill Landis
We don't know that we've had one year of a playoff.
- [33:37]
Douglas Maurice
SMU wasn't a championship caliber team.
- [33:39]
Bill Landis
Sure. But that, but yeah. So last year that's who was available to put in the playoff. We don't know what this year is going to look like.
- [33:44]
Douglas Maurice
The SEC is a muck. So it's Indiana at Penn State on Nov. 8. When you think about the Penn State schedule, the rest of the way. And it's like you don't want to schedule your game yourself into oblivion. But at UCLA versus Northwestern the next two weeks, which is again, not really an opportunity to impress anybody. At Iowa on October 18th and then both Ohio State and Penn State have an off week before they face each other in Columbus on November 1st. They get Ohio State and Indiana back to back.
- [34:12]
Bill Landis
Yeah. And Iowa is not a cakewalk as we saw today with Indiana. Yeah.
- [34:15]
Douglas Maurice
So I mean this is one of those. They also could get trapped in the. Iowa's good enough to beat Penn State, but not good enough for anybody to respect the win if Penn State gets it. They also have Nebraska at home in the second last week. But it's like they're, they're not getting in at 9 and 3. So they've got to beat one of the two of Indiana or Ohio State and then see what happens. I still think doing that unless Indiana falls off a cliff, you beat Nebraska, you win at Iowa. Let's say you beat Indiana at home and you, I mean this is a double overtime game. I think that matters too. Especially like Oregon's gonna be a playoff team. You have a double overtime loss to a playoff team, you're competitive in Columbus. I think they would. Being competitive would be much different than losing by 30 in Columbus.
- [34:53]
Bill Landis
I agree.
- [34:54]
Douglas Maurice
Two competitive losses to two playoff teams. 10 and 2. Penn State, I think it's in good shape. But then even that, that's almost like them maxing out the rest of the year because that did not look like a team that's going to go in and win in Columbus.
- [35:05]
Bill Landis
Denials like a team that's going to go win in Columbus. So I think like 10 and 2 at the moment feels like best case scenario, 10 and 2 could very likely mean like you're going to the playoff and opening on the road.
- [35:16]
Douglas Maurice
Right?
- [35:17]
Bill Landis
Yeah. It's not like it's, it's. Penn State did not have to come into the season and go undefeated and win a national championship for it to be considered a success. But 10 and 2, I don't think was on the docket either. And it's just like it's hard to not feel like that's what Penn State's staring down based off the way it played today.
- [35:35]
Douglas Maurice
Like, like it, like it feels like the ceiling for the season is a 10 and 2 team that nobody believes in going into the playoffs.
- [35:41]
Bill Landis
Right.
- [35:42]
Douglas Maurice
That they're, they're the nine seed going to number eight Texas A and M. And the entire discussion for 14 days is, well, James Franklin's 4 and 23 against like, I can't do it now. Why would it happen now? It hasn't happened as opposed to. And again, why? It's not the loss you do. At some point you have to vanquish the discussion. I think you have to vanquish the discussion before you can even win the games. Now. Now, to be fair, that's where Ohio State was last year. Ohio State going into the Tennessee game, they had to vanquish the discussion and they vanquished the discussion and then they vanquished everybody else.
- [36:22]
Bill Landis
Right.
- [36:23]
Douglas Maurice
So Penn State would have the opportunity to go on the road to College Station and beat number eight, Texas A and M, vanquish the discussion and then go try to beat the number one team in the country in the semi in the quarterfinals just like Ohio State did. They would have that opportunity. And a year ago, I'm not so sure if everybody was certain that Ohio State was going to do that. So that's the best case scenario at Penn State right now. But in the off season, you and I thought Penn State was going to. We thought Penn State would win this game in the offseason.
- [36:50]
Bill Landis
Yes.
- [36:51]
Douglas Maurice
The way Oregon played this year, the way Penn State played with its food and three against three mediocre teams, we had certainly doubts about Penn State winning this game much more than we did in the off season. We thought, man, this is going to be. We thought this could be the coming out party for Penn State, beat Oregon at home. And then after the races.
- [37:08]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I, I was. It was like twofold, right? Like thinking Penn State would kind of hit the ground running with all the talent they had coming back. It's actually interesting if you look like the returning production, how many of those teams aren't playing that well? Maybe that's a thing. But yeah, the Penn State would hit the ground running, that Penn State would be playing angry. Neither one of those two things came to fruition. And Oregon was a team that was angry and Oregon was a team that kind of hit the ground running this season. So I still picked Penn State to win this game, but I picked Oregon to cover because I thought ultimately the environment would get pushed Penn State to a win. But I'm not surprised that like Oregon was game for the moment. It's just a little damning that it looked more ready for the moment that Penn State did.
- [37:48]
Douglas Maurice
You saw, we saw Dan Lanning after the game on tv, how fired up he was.
- [37:55]
Bill Landis
Yep.
- [37:56]
Douglas Maurice
Can you imagine if that had been James Franklin fired up? Our quarterback is an absolute all star this is for all the Penn State fans out there.
- [38:07]
Bill Landis
Yeah. And instead you get a post game quote from James Franklin that I feel like I've heard from him a million times. Quote, we gotta find ways to win those games. I get it.
- [38:20]
Douglas Maurice
Which is a quote about quarterback play because. Because if you're going to come in and talk about we need to cover better, we need to block better, we need to. We gotta find a way. Find a way is code for quarterback play.
- [38:35]
Bill Landis
Mostly I think, I don't know oftentimes in this specific situation, I think it is. I don't know that there's much like Oregon ended up with 424 yards of offense. I don't know that you come away like feeling like the defense let them down here and even like whatever.
- [38:53]
Douglas Maurice
424 to 276 Oregon out game. Yeah.
- [38:55]
Bill Landis
The Jim Knowles thing that like was an issue for him at Ohio State was like in these big games the defenses never get any stops. Like they gave up one touchdown in the fourth quarter. So yeah, it's mostly a quarterback thing.
- [39:07]
Douglas Maurice
But I do think I like, I do think there's a difference here for all the things that Penn State did not get out of this game. I do think there's a somewhat significant defense difference between Penn State loses 173 Getting booed off the field and Penn State loses in double overtime.
- [39:24]
Bill Landis
I generally think you're right. The very specific way it ended in double overtime makes it a little more difficult to swallow, I would imagine for Penn State fans.
- [39:34]
Douglas Maurice
What if in. In attempting to protect Drew Aller on this program from a horrific ending. What if James Franklin had just told Drew Aller to run backwards 40 yards and take a safety like Fernando Mendoza did for Indiana and we'll just take the loss. But it'll be a moral victory. We're playing for the moral victory. We just don't want you to throw a game ending pick.
- [39:57]
Bill Landis
I would have respected it. I want to look now.
- [40:01]
Douglas Maurice
And that's the only turnover in that game.
- [40:03]
Bill Landis
Yes.
- [40:04]
Douglas Maurice
Is the last play of the game is the only turnover.
- [40:06]
Bill Landis
Penn State's first overtime possession, they ran three plays, started with a pass, run, run and that was it. And then they came out throwing. Yeah, I think if, I don't know we're having, if we're having like this specific conversation. If Penn State came out and like ran the ball and K Tron Allen fumbled and Oregon recovered it on the first play or if they got out of. They got past the first down, got in the scoring position and whatever Drew aller throws an incomplete pass to end the game out of the back of the end zone or something. It's like it was like every, all the goodwill that felt like it was being built up toward the end of that game almost whether, whether Penn State won or lost was undone by that very specific ending.
- [40:54]
Douglas Maurice
You know what would have been a great outcome for Penn State, which is what we thought was going to happen, which is Dan Lanning after the first touchdown. Goes for two.
- [41:02]
Bill Landis
Goes for two.
- [41:02]
Douglas Maurice
So Penn State rallies two touchdowns in the fourth quarter, ties it, loses the coin toss, scores on its first possession, and then Oregon scores and goes for two and wins by a point. And it comes down to like Penn State lost the coin toss and Oregon got to go second. And they went, they made a bold call. And then it'd be like, oh, we fought down to the wire and James Franklin be like, we'll take that. Actually, that actually would be different. We would have taken that.
- [41:30]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [41:31]
Douglas Maurice
James, would you have taken a one point loss if Dan and Landing had gone for two?
- [41:36]
Commercial Announcer
Listen, life's all about leveling up. Whether you're handling business on the field or kicking it in your zone, you like to celebrate with cigars that match the moment. That's why you should link up with with Famous Cigars to bring you a wild deal. Right now. You can grab eight premium cigars for just eight bucks. You heard that right. Eight top rated cigars at a dollar a stick. Top quality brands like Oliva, Romeo, I, Julieta and Davidoff, handpicked just for you and worth over 80 bucks. Hit up famouscigars.com cam and lock in this exclusive deal. While you're there, check out their insane selection of premium cigars, all shipped fresh and fast from their massive 20,000 square foot humidor. That's half a football field. Famous Cigars has been in the game since 1939 and still family owned. So celebrate every win with the folks at famous 8 cigars for 8 bucks. Famous cigars.com Cam.
- [42:44]
Douglas Maurice
Can I give you a trivia question here on our postgame show? This is Doug, this is Bill. We are the Doug the Bill and Doug Show. We do a lot of Ohio State coverage on this channel on these podcast feeds, but we also do some national college talk. We do national picks every Friday. We do a playoff bracket every Tuesday. We continue to have opinions about northern college football and national college football. So we appreciate everybody who's joining us here. We still feel like we are. We have four feet covering Ohio State right now, but we still have a lot of Interest and knowledge we feel like about teams like Oregon and Penn State. We're at Big Ten media days. We've been covering these teams. We've been studying these teams all off season. So we have opinions.
- [43:23]
Bill Landis
We have opinions. And I think we're always interested in how the Big Ten is sort of establishing its hierarchy and then comparing that to how people talk about the sec.
- [43:32]
Douglas Maurice
And we're going to talk about that in a second.
- [43:34]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [43:35]
Douglas Maurice
Of the top 17 teams in the preseason AP poll here on. As we hit midnight and turn from September 27 to September 28, how many of those 17 are still undefeated?
- [43:51]
Bill Landis
Oh, from the preseason.
- [43:53]
Douglas Maurice
From the preseason poll.
- [43:56]
Bill Landis
4.
- [43:57]
Douglas Maurice
3. Ohio State, Oregon and Miami.
- [44:01]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [44:02]
Douglas Maurice
Which we started saying two weeks ago we thought were the three best teams in college football.
- [44:06]
Bill Landis
I think that is borderline definitive at this point.
- [44:11]
Douglas Maurice
I'll run quickly through one, through 17, their number of losses. Number one. This is preseason AP poll. Texas 1. Loss. Penn State, 1. Loss. Ohio State. None. Clemson 3. Georgia 1. Notre Dame 2, Oregon 0. Alabama 1, LSU 1. Took that today. Miami 0. Arizona State 1. Illinois 1. South Carolina 2, Michigan 1, Florida 3, SMU 2 and Kansas State 3. So, and this is.
- [44:38]
Bill Landis
I saw you looking up Kansas State earlier, so what's he doing that for?
- [44:41]
Douglas Maurice
Yeah, just piling on. Chris Climan. It's like everybody who thought they were going to be good, they're not. I do. For the people who yearn for the, the, the, the, the 14 playoff truthers. For the people who yearn for, like, oh, man, like, wouldn't that be great? I just, it's such a, like, I like that we've had. Because these teams are losing to each other. Texas lost to Ohio State.
- [45:05]
Bill Landis
Right.
- [45:05]
Douglas Maurice
Georgia lost to Alabama. Penn State lost to Oregon. Like, we're making these teams lose. Right. But I just don't, like, I don't want everybody, like, I don't want all these teams to be out of it, you know, Like, I just, I've, I've, I've passed that Rubicon. Like, that's not how I think anymore. That I don't think. Like, oh, good. You know, whatever. South Carolina, you have two losses. You should have your season be over already. Right?
- [45:28]
Bill Landis
So can we be honest and say that we're happy that closing season's over already?
- [45:35]
Douglas Maurice
So you got three. Three in September.
- [45:37]
Bill Landis
Your.
- [45:38]
Douglas Maurice
Your game over, baby. Yeah, but this is where the sport is. But the other. The thing that I was very interested in tonight, and we will be honest, we didn't want to do. How big is my tv? Do you Think Ariana Grande is on it right now. This isn't real, is it?
- [45:51]
Bill Landis
This is a rep repeat. Yeah, I don't know, it's probably like a, it's like a 40, 40 or 50 inch TV.
- [45:57]
Douglas Maurice
Are you gonna go see the second Wicked?
- [45:59]
Bill Landis
Yeah, probably.
- [46:00]
Douglas Maurice
Did you go see the first one?
- [46:01]
Bill Landis
I didn't see it in theaters. I watched it at home.
- [46:03]
Douglas Maurice
Did you like it?
- [46:04]
Bill Landis
I did like it, like reluctantly. I wasn't interested in watching it. My wife maybe watches like this is pretty good.
- [46:08]
Douglas Maurice
I don't think it's for me. I'm gonna skip it.
- [46:10]
Bill Landis
Smart.
- [46:11]
Douglas Maurice
I didn't want to, we didn't want to split screen it. It's a big TV but, but even on the YouTube, the 2 box, it doesn't fill the whole screen. I wish they could two box a little bit better. So we kept the one box. We had Oregon, Penn State and then we had on your iPad we had Alabama Georgia. So we can't pretend we watched Alabama Georgia as closely. But the one thing that we took away from Alabama Georgia is they made ridiculous mistakes and kept dropping touchdown passes.
- [46:36]
Bill Landis
Every time I would hear like Chris Fowler's voice level raise that would and it would draw my attention to the screen and it was just like, oh, someone from Alabama or Georgia is running scot free through the middle of the defense either on a run play or on a pass play where that person who's running scot free is about to drop a walk in touchdown.
- [46:55]
Douglas Maurice
Yes. So the thing that we can't and that we are prepared to push back against is we had mentioned this back in the era when it was the SEC and college football itself was defined by Nick Saban. It was defensive football. And nine, three games were the best kind of game that you could play. Low scoring was cool. Now for whatever reason, everybody in the SEC has forgotten how to play defense. I was like, let's just chuck it around. And this is great ball. This is is mistake filled, sloppy football. I've used the term section. It's like maxion. It's exciting. It doesn't mean it's good. It's close. There were a lot of close games in the SEC today. Auburn, Texas A and M was close. Ole Miss, LSU was close. Tennessee, Mississippi State was close. Alabama, Georgia was close. Was any of it good? Was any of it good? Because I did think you can sit here and be like Drew Aller. I don't know. I'm not. So if Drew Aller was playing the Georgia defense today instead of the Oregon defense, Georgia has forgotten how to play defense. They made Ty Simpson look like the Heisman front runner. But there's just guys running free. So we're looking at two things. A, there's guys dropping touchdown passes in the Alabama Georgia game. But B, there are just people running free. There are safeties taking banana angles, there are broken coverages. And I just. You aren't seeing I don't think the highest level of the Big Ten games. I don't think you see as many defensive mistakes like that and the result can be. Some people first blush might think, oh, the Big Ten stinks in comparison. I think a lot of what the SEC in a game like this gets and it's the same thing of the game last year with Alabama and Georgia just lower scoring. That was exciting but not well played and it's busted coverages all over the place. I think Oregon, Penn State was a tighter played game and Alabama and Georgia let it get loose. And also Gunner Stockton's still not good.
- [48:41]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think it was a tighter played game and like there's pretty direct comparisons you can make between like Ty Simpson and Dante Moore and Gunner Stockton. Andrew Holler. Gunner Stockton was 13 of 20 for 130 yards. Drew Aller was 14 of 25 for 137 yards. Just not good, not good enough to lead their team to a win. And like the bulk of Gunner Stockton's passing yards came on like two plays. Not helped by the drop that they had nor was Ty Simpson helped by the draft that Ryan Williams had. But it was a game where like Bama like kind of could throw it but not run it and Georgia could throw it but. Or excuse me, run it but not throw it. So it's not who like balanced in that way. So I don't know, I, I think you can get a little too caught up in the aesthetics of things sometimes because it's not like Penn State Oregon was 33 at halftime. Let's not pretend like it was beautiful football. But tighter is probably the right word. Like a game that was less about like mistakes I think than maybe the Alabama Georgia game was.
- [49:38]
Douglas Maurice
I have a name for this is my nickname for Gunner Stockton. Dixie Drew. I don't mind that you were looking up at times. There was like a 4th and 1 call where it was like a gotta have it play for Georgia and they like did a little flip sideways handoff to a running back and made the play come down to whether a receiver on the edge can make a block and the receiver could not have looked less interested in.
- [50:02]
Bill Landis
It was like third and nine on like you're down three at midfield, third and nine. And your play was, I'm gonna throw a swing past 4 yards behind the line of scrimmage to my running back and then my receivers will show no interest in blocking. Yeah, interesting decision.
- [50:16]
Douglas Maurice
And it's just like, remember when everyone's like, oh, Georgia stole Josh McCray from Illinois. What are they going to do? Josh McCray, six carries for 15 yards against Bama.
- [50:25]
Bill Landis
Zach Branch, three catches, 35 yards. He was supposed to reinvigorate the Georgia offense.
- [50:29]
Douglas Maurice
It's very conflicting when Georgia and Alabama play each other because on some level you win no matter what and on some level you lose no matter what. But last year at this time, the thing that was making me wave my sword the most was when people were coming out of the game saying like.
- [50:44]
Bill Landis
Oh, Bama, Georgia, here's your national title game.
- [50:47]
Douglas Maurice
Yeah, here is your. And by our recollection, it was not the national title game.
- [50:51]
Bill Landis
It was not.
- [50:52]
Douglas Maurice
I hope people are not coming out of Gunner Stockton, Ty Simpson, drop touchdown passes, broken coverages, sloppy bonanza and saying, that's your national title game. And I also like you. You just. The thing that would is going to bother me the most on Monday is if. If the conclusion of this is like, Penn State stinks. They can't win a big game. Drew Aller stinks. But somehow Bama Georgia is what college football is all about.
- [51:22]
Bill Landis
I don't. I admittedly was not perusing Twitter or X much during the game to see what those reactions would be, but the little bit that I did see, I don't know that I got a. I got a whiff of that.
- [51:33]
Douglas Maurice
Really.
- [51:33]
Bill Landis
So maybe, maybe we'll avoid it.
- [51:34]
Douglas Maurice
Do you think it's because the south has come back down to earth after two northern national titles or that game just stunk?
- [51:40]
Bill Landis
Both, probably. Yeah. I think both.
- [51:43]
Douglas Maurice
Also remember how LSU is going to win the national title?
- [51:46]
Bill Landis
Nope.
- [51:46]
Douglas Maurice
Remember how everybody said that I lost my bet with our friend Connor from Saturday down south? I said LSU would start. Well, I didn't know. I didn't lose the bet yet. I said LSU would start 3 and 3. They're already 4 and 1. Congratulations to them because Clemson stinks like hot garbage. But he said LSU would win the national title. And like, that's not our pal.
- [52:05]
Bill Landis
Ari Wasserman has Ole Miss 4 in his updated top 10 rankings, so maybe I spoke too soon.
- [52:10]
Douglas Maurice
He spend at least 11 seconds on that in between trying to figure out how much Drew Aller's chain cost Penn State 9 Penn State 9. Because I'm sure that Ole Miss would take Oregon in the double overtime, don't you think?
- [52:25]
Bill Landis
Yes.
- [52:26]
Douglas Maurice
I mean how, how could Oregon handle Saxby Chambliss? What's his name?
- [52:30]
Bill Landis
Trinidad Chambliss.
- [52:32]
Douglas Maurice
Trinidad Chambliss. I mean there's no.
- [52:34]
Bill Landis
The best quarterback in the SEC is a transfer from Division 2.
- [52:37]
Douglas Maurice
Yeah. So I mean, I mean how. That's just, that's just how SEC ball works. So. And I did bring the swords into the basement. So Indiana. I, I do think Son of the.
- [52:47]
Bill Landis
North, by the way. Trinidad Shambles.
- [52:49]
Douglas Maurice
Oh, for real?
- [52:49]
Bill Landis
Yep. Michigan.
- [52:52]
Douglas Maurice
Where is, where's Ferris State?
- [52:54]
Bill Landis
Michigan.
- [52:55]
Douglas Maurice
How is he? Ole Miss?
- [52:57]
Bill Landis
I don't know. Money.
- [52:58]
Douglas Maurice
Because there's so many good quarterbacks. He should be. Where could he be? Because we already went through this in our substack show. We did all 18 teams in the Big Ten and the only three, Wisconsin, Wisconsin. The only three places in the Big Ten that you determined are really like not happy with quarterback player, Northwestern, UCLA and Wisconsin. But UCLA went and tried and got Nico this off season. Northwestern went and tried and got Preston Stone this off season. And I don't know who got someone.
- [53:24]
Bill Landis
In the Big Ten got a Ferris State offensive lineman. Was it Iowa? Was Iowa.
- [53:28]
Douglas Maurice
Oh, should they have gotten.
- [53:31]
Bill Landis
They should have watched the QB too.
- [53:33]
Douglas Maurice
Watch the qb. That's how all great scouting happens. You grab, you're scouting one guy in film and then you're like, who's that guy? How did nobody. Who's that guy? Trinidad Chambliss. Only the great genius that is Lane Kiffin. They did like a whole 60 minute mini lane Kiffin documentary this week. I didn't watch it.
- [53:48]
Bill Landis
I didn't watch it either. Don't care.
- [53:49]
Douglas Maurice
Won't be watching that. Indiana. Did you think it was a good day for the Big Ten? Because in the noon window we were paying attention to Minnesota, Rutgers, which was just like a fun middle tier. Like there's enough players in this game. Darius Taylor is still out for Minnesota running back, but there's still enough guys in that game who could make plays. You had Illinois, usc, where Illinois bounces back from the drubbing by Indiana and plays I think a pretty darn good game at home. Yeah, he tries to give it away, but then after they gave it away, then they marched for the game winning field goal and kicked it, a 40 yard field goal in the last play of the game to win that. You had Indiana, Iowa at the same time as Ohio State, Washington. And again Indiana off a huge win goes to Iowa Kurt Signetti all week was giving. It felt like he had no respect for Illinois last week before, during or after the game. And he had tremendous respect for Iowa all week. And then Iowa almost beats him. Ohio State plays a very mature game on the road at Washington Hems in Demond Williams looks like, I think, the best team in the country. And then you get this Oregon, Penn State game. Is it a good weekend for the Big Ten?
- [54:52]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I thought so.
- [54:54]
Douglas Maurice
It was good.
- [54:54]
Bill Landis
Like, I think like Penn State, Oregon had to be as competitive as it was, so that was good. I think Ohio State showing was. Was pretty darn good out in Washington. Illinois bouncing back and thus, like fortifying Indiana a little bit, I think is good for the Big Ten. And then I would hope at the very least that, like, Big Ten fans have a little bit of grace for Indiana not blowing Iowa's doors off when I think every team in the Big Ten has gone to Kinnick and left feeling terrible about itself at some point. Right. So we were talking about, like, Iowa's superpowers turning other teams into Iowa, and that's what it did to Indiana today. But he got out of there with a wink's the kind of place where, like, it doesn't matter what it looks like as long as you get out of there with a W. And Indiana did. So. Yeah, I think it was a good. A really good day for the Big Ten, actually.
- [55:40]
Douglas Maurice
It's just even.
- [55:40]
Bill Landis
What? I don't even know. I don't know who won the UCLA Northwestern game, but one of those teams got their first Big Ten win, so that's nice. Good for them.
- [55:45]
Douglas Maurice
Northwestern was ahead 17 nothing and then almost blew it, but won 17.
- [55:50]
Bill Landis
Beautiful.
- [55:52]
Douglas Maurice
So. And I know I saw at least one UCLA writer asking if you see Lace staring down the barrel of Owen.
- [55:57]
Bill Landis
12 that felt like they're one opportunity to get a win. Yeah, I was. I was asking you whether or not a team has ever fired its head coach and then fired the interim coach.
- [56:06]
Douglas Maurice
It's not good. It's not good. So. So a good day. And then we just have to. You know, I. I think Texas A M might be a competitive team. Like, I think.
- [56:16]
Bill Landis
I think I like A M. I very much respect Oklahoma's defense. We'll have to see how they navigate the world without JAMA for a couple weeks.
- [56:23]
Douglas Maurice
Yep.
- [56:24]
Bill Landis
Still think Texas is dangerous. We'll see if Arch Manning starts to build some momentum now that he mean mugged the Sam Houston State defender. LSU doesn't scare me. No Ole Miss outside of Oxford doesn't Really scare me. You know, I think I. Again, I think like Alabama's demise was slightly overstated. Whether or not even you think like Alabama is a championship quality team. I do kind of feel like Alabama is going to be in the playoff mix. So there are teams, Southern teams to respect.
- [56:54]
Douglas Maurice
Missouri is. Is weird.
- [56:56]
Bill Landis
Missouri's interesting.
- [56:58]
Douglas Maurice
They blew the doors off UMass today.
- [57:01]
Bill Landis
You think. Do you think Florida State's a fraud or they get caught in a look ahead spot?
- [57:04]
Douglas Maurice
I think Florida State's a fraud.
- [57:05]
Bill Landis
Okay. I think they might have got caught a look ahead spot. But ask me again next week when they play Miami.
- [57:09]
Douglas Maurice
So Missouri, Alabama. So Bama. I mean like, can I make this bet with you're in on Bama. I'm out on Bama.
- [57:17]
Bill Landis
I'm just not all the way out on Bama. So I guess that means by default I'm in.
- [57:21]
Douglas Maurice
You're right, you're in compared to me.
- [57:23]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [57:24]
Douglas Maurice
Next week, home versus Vanderbilt. The week after that at Missouri.
- [57:28]
Bill Landis
Not a gimme. We don't. We know the Vanderbilt's not a gimme.
- [57:30]
Douglas Maurice
I will bet you they lose at least one of those games. I mean and we don't have to bet. I am declaring. I think Bama will lose at least one of those two games to Vanderbilt in Missouri.
- [57:39]
Bill Landis
Yeah, you're probably right.
- [57:40]
Douglas Maurice
And then everybody. Oh, Missouri. Oh, Diego Pavia. It's Vanderbilt. So I. So I don't know. But we just have to live in that world. But like I'm not all the way back there on Bama. And just like again, nobody's better at the transitive property than the sec. But like we're getting pretty good at it. Arkansas probably should have beat Ole Miss two weeks ago. They fumbled, I think at the end of the game when they had a chance to win it. Should have beaten Ole Miss. Ole Miss beats number four LSU today. Notre Dame cooks that hog. Man. Notre Dame went down and took apart Arkansas today.
- [58:22]
Bill Landis
So four, four and a half point spread and they won by a billion.
- [58:26]
Douglas Maurice
So you want a transitive property on LSU lost to Ole Miss, who should have lost to Arkansas, who got their doors blown off by Notre Dame.
- [58:34]
Bill Landis
Right.
- [58:34]
Douglas Maurice
So we've got to look for comparisons when we can find them. And we just would like to point anybody to that in case anybody else is trying to point you to, oh, the sec. There's nothing like trying to get through an SEC schedule.
- [58:44]
Bill Landis
What do you think Georgia is going to do? Georgia now has Kentucky at Auburn, Ole Miss off and then Florida.
- [58:53]
Douglas Maurice
So listen, I've sort of been holding on to Georgia because I don't know who else to hold on to in the sec. And as I understand that the SEC at least has to get one team in the playoffs.
- [59:01]
Bill Landis
That is correct.
- [59:02]
Douglas Maurice
But Georgia, and this is where I think they were last year, except Gunner Stockton is even a step down from Carson Beckham. First national championship for Georgia. One of the best college defenses we've ever seen. Second national championship for Georgia. A quarterback who would not let them lose. A veteran quarterback who would not let them lose. They do not have either of those things right now. And they also don't have Brock Bowers. They also don't have Vlad McConkey. I do not know how many skill guys they have that scare you their quarterback. I don't think anybody believes in the quarterback. The quarterback had a brief respite because he threw A. A fourth and 10 touchdown against Tennessee and then converted to two point conversion and then Tennessee missed a field goal at the end of the game. Or, or Georgia, frankly. I mean that's a miracle throw by Gunner Stockton, which he does get credit for, but it's a stinking miracle.
- [59:51]
Bill Landis
Yep.
- [59:52]
Douglas Maurice
And then Tennessee misses a field goal in the last play of the game. Or Georgia. Was that their most recent game? They would be looking at two losses in a row, right?
- [59:57]
Bill Landis
Georgia. Tennessee. Yeah, they were. They beat Tennessee and then they were off. Yeah.
- [60:00]
Douglas Maurice
So Georgia should be on a two game lining winning streak. I mean I, I don't know. I've had Georgia in the playoff. I don't. I'm not convinced that Georgia's a playoff team.
- [60:10]
Bill Landis
I want to look at ESPN's College Football Playoff picks.
- [60:13]
Douglas Maurice
Should I bail? Should I. Do I have to be in on Bama in order to bail on Georgia or can I bail on both?
- [60:19]
Bill Landis
You can bail on both.
- [60:20]
Douglas Maurice
God, the SEC stinks.
- [60:22]
Bill Landis
Everyone, I'm looking at ESPN's playoff picks. Everyone has Ohio State number one except for Bill Conley who has Oregon one and Ohio State too. But everyone had. Never mind. Bill Conley lost me by putting Ole Miss at three.
- [60:36]
Douglas Maurice
Okay, we need to only discuss serious people. But like for instance, and like you've had Georgia as your top SEC team the last couple of weeks. Who will you have as your top SEC team in your playoff bracket on Tuesday? Bama. You're gonna have Bama. No, they don't have an SEC loss. They only have a Florida State loss.
- [60:52]
Bill Landis
I might go. I might go. A and M. Okay. A and M didn't like look spectacular today, but it won again.
- [60:57]
Douglas Maurice
At least I think Texas, I think like waiting For Texas to come back around still makes a lot of sense.
- [61:02]
Bill Landis
What is Texas's deal? So Texas was off today. Right. And then you said they come back and play Florida. Florida and then Red river against a materialist Oklahoma more than likely.
- [61:11]
Douglas Maurice
And then they, they still play Georgia this year, right?
- [61:13]
Bill Landis
Yeah, they play Georgia in November. Okay, November and then A M at.
- [61:17]
Douglas Maurice
The end of the year. Could be a. It was a gigantic game last year, but gigantic game again this year. Yeah.
- [61:21]
Bill Landis
At Georgia, November 15th.
- [61:22]
Douglas Maurice
Okay. All right. So I think, I think a good day for the Big Ten.
- [61:28]
Bill Landis
I would agree. Yeah.
- [61:29]
Douglas Maurice
And a tough day like when you're 4 and 21 against top 10 teams like you just like moral victories aren't going to get you anywhere but simultaneously could have been worse and also couldn't have been worse, which is the point you've been making the whole time. And it's just hard. It is. Also there are two things here that are true about Penn State and Drew Outer in the end. One is the Drew Aller box score. Is the Drew Allers box score ever. I mean this is exactly like you look up and it's like, hey, did Penn State play like a barn burner in like a game that everybody was watching? And Drew Aller, who people talk about as a first round pick, what was his line? 14 of 25 for 137. Yeah, of course it was.
- [62:08]
Bill Landis
It's like the old was like that joke about like show. It's the inverse of like the old Shohei Itani Mike Trout jokes where it's like Shohei Otani and Mike Trout did something that hasn't been done in baseball in 100 years and the Angels lost four. Three.
- [62:19]
Douglas Maurice
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a, it was a, it was a, it was a great matchup at the, the peak of college football. And the quarterback averaged 4 yards of completion or whatever. So we had that line. That's just a floor line and then he made a killer mistake at the end.
- [62:38]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [62:38]
Douglas Maurice
So yeah. All right, that'll do it for our post game show. So, so I don't know, Bill, like we are open to. We've been doing an Ohio State post game show as soon as the OSU game ends next week. Ohio State is a prime time game, but we are open to, I would say especially if Ohio State's not a prime time game, but there are, if there are prime time things happening that are worthy of it for us hopping on and maybe doing another thing like this.
- [63:04]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think as warranted at the very least. But if people want us to do it every week regardless. I think we can maybe do that. It'll be harder when Ohio State plays in prime time, but I don't know if that'll happen again after next week's game against Minnesota.
- [63:19]
Douglas Maurice
So if you are an Ohio State fan that tuned in for this post game shows, thank you so much for being here. If you're a fan of another team or just a college football fan in general, we will continue to provide some of this content. So if you're not as interested in the nitty gritty of Ohio State, although Ohio State continues to be a fascinating lens in which to view college football, they are the defending national champs. They are the number one team in the country. They do affect everybody else. Tuesday evening we put it up. It is our College Football Playoff bracket where we change our bracket every week trying to anticipate what we think it would be at the end of the year. It's not us doing a current poll. It's us changing our minds of who we think the 12 teams will be at the end of the year. That goes up every Tuesday night and then every Friday we do our national college picks. And actually we did a little bit better this week, Bill. We've had a couple rough weeks, but like for instance, I picked Oregon to win by one, you picked Penn State to win by one. And they were tied at the end of regulations. So we were. No one picked overtime. But other than picking overtime, we like kind of middled the Penn State Oregon game pretty well.
- [64:19]
Bill Landis
But I get the W for the. Against the spread pick.
- [64:22]
Douglas Maurice
Yeah, we both get a W for that. But then also you pick Bam and I pick Georgia, so.
- [64:27]
Bill Landis
Oh right.
- [64:28]
Douglas Maurice
That's what I get for being a dog lover. I must. I'm gonna hoist myself on my own patoot for picking the dogs. All right. Thanks to you guys for being here. We love talking college ball. We love talking northern college ball. We love talking about Ohio State. You can also check out our sub stack. You can go check it out for free with a little quick like week long subscription there. Right. You get to hang out for a little bit if you want to.
- [64:47]
Bill Landis
There's a free trial I think seven days. Or you can just like get the emails and, and decide over time if it's for you or not. Yeah, yeah.
- [64:54]
Douglas Maurice
Because you can sign up for free. Yeah. Then just like see what we're putting out there. We do do pre two premium shows there a week. One on Wednesday, one on Sunday and a lot of written content. That's billanddugosu.substack.com all right, thanks to you guys for joining us. Get this hat off my head from my basement. This is a sword. Yeah. Do you want to hold how often have you held the sword in person?
- [65:13]
Bill Landis
I don't know. I think once. They have a lot of weight to.
- [65:17]
Douglas Maurice
Them, more than you would think. And you are, you are a stronger man than I. I have a noodle arm, so sometimes it's hard to hold the sword. But it's a two sword Saturday, Bill, when you get two games on a Saturday night like that damage with this.
- [65:30]
Bill Landis
Thing, it's like a, it's a heavy blunt object.
- [65:32]
Douglas Maurice
It is a heavy blunt object. All right. Thanks, you guys, for being here. For now, he's Bill Landis. I'm Douglas Maurice, and that was the Bill and Doug Show.