Talking Jeremiah Smith as Carnell Tate rises: The right way to view Ohio State's star receivers

Summary

The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk

Episode: “Talking Jeremiah Smith as Carnell Tate rises: The right way to view Ohio State’s star receivers”
Hosts: Doug Lesmerises & Bill Landis
Date: October 24, 2025

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Episode Overview

Doug and Bill dive deep into the dynamics of Ohio State’s star receiving duo—Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate. The show’s central theme: parsing fan concerns and misconceptions about Smith’s (still elite) production level, Tate’s rapid emergence, and the broader implications for the Buckeyes’ offense. The hosts use advanced stats and in-game breakdowns to provide context and settle nervous energy among Ohio State fans: the offense is functioning at a high level, even if it looks “different” than what some expected.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jeremiah Smith vs. Carnell Tate: Why the Comparison, and What Does It Mean?

Timestamps: 00:06 – 03:36

• Carnell Tate’s season has exceeded expectations, leading fans to wonder if something is “off” with Smith. Both Doug and Bill push back:

  “It's not what's wrong with Jeremiah Smith… I just think it's different than what we expected. It's a credit to Carnell Tate.” (B - 02:12)

• Tate is entering “co-headliner” status alongside Smith, surprising given preseason expectations of Smith’s dominance.
• Doug draws a playful podcasting analogy:

  “Are we sure that Bill is really getting it done as a podcaster?... Well, it’s because I’m also good. That's like, it doesn't make Bill worse. But you're surprised about how good I am.” (B - 03:05)

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2. Target Volume & Usage Stats: Is Ohio State Getting Smith the Ball Enough?

Timestamps: 05:04 – 13:23

• Despite all the hand-wringing, Smith ranks 4th in Power 4 targets, 8th in receiving yards, and is top 10 nationally in all key receiving categories.
• Comparison to other teams: Smith’s opportunity is “awesome,” especially since Ohio State distributes the ball more democratically than teams with a single dominant WR (e.g., Arizona State’s Jordan Tyson with 90 targets).

  “The excellence is boring, their efficiency is boring… but it applies to Jeremiah Smith in a way because he is getting the ball.” (B - 06:01)

• Bill: Smith’s average depth of target and yards per reception are still strong—even if not at his 2024 levels, stressing the impact of defensive strategy and increased coverage attention.
• Smith is often, but not exclusively, the first read on pass plays. Ohio State’s offense is not “scheming him out” intentionally, and he is the first read “on a large percentage” of Julian Sayin’s dropbacks.

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3. Advanced Metrics & The Boring (But Elite) Efficiency of Smith’s Role

Timestamps: 08:55 – 14:12

• Smith’s yards per route run are essentially identical to last season (3.14 to 3.15), but his yards after catch is down due to tighter coverage.

  “He is as efficient as he was last year, perhaps even more efficient. But the explosivity... is the thing that people are maybe scratching their head at.” (A - 10:06)

• The hosts break down play design nuances, defensive adjustments, and how Smith’s role has evolved into one that is more efficient, but less reliant on highlight-reel plays, due to constant double teams and “boring” RPOs.

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4. In-Game Analysis: Missed Explosive Opportunities, Quarterback Decision-Making

Timestamps: 14:12 – 24:30

• Doug highlights a play versus Wisconsin where Smith was open deep but Sayin checked down.

  “This looks like an opportunity to get Jeremiah Smith the ball deep... but the pocket has collapsed a tiny bit.” (B - 15:18)

• Bill notes there are seam opportunities against coverage schemes Ohio State sees often (lots of cover 3), but Sayin is still learning when to “let it rip.”
• Sayin’s skillset: extremely accurate, excellent off-platform, but not “raw arm strength” like a prototypical NFL QB, influencing which risks he takes.

  “He's insanely accurate... but that throw is going to require a little bit more from Julian Sayin.” (A - 20:35)

• Both note Sayin is conservative by design, emphasizing that OSU’s staff likely tells him, “take care of the ball” first.

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5. The Impact of Ohio State’s Slow Pace & Efficiency on Production

Timestamps: 24:30 – 27:31

• OSU plays at one of the slowest paces in college football. Less total plays = fewer opportunities for all receivers, but Smith’s numbers are even more impressive in this light.

  “They play slow. Yes. But the other thing is they don't throw incomplete passes. The clock never stops.” (A - 25:11)

• Any stat-based comparison should be “pace-adjusted.”

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6. Scheme Variations & Future Offensive Adjustments

Timestamps: 27:31 – 34:36

• Bill notes OSU has not yet unveiled all their slot or creative usage for Smith (“no doubt in my mind they have things for him that they have yet to unveil”—A - 27:31).
• Look for more slot alignment and specialized plays in key games (e.g., versus Penn State, Michigan, postseason), as seen when Smith lined up in the slot much more often against Texas.
• The “saving stuff for Michigan” trope is discussed—likely true to some extent, especially in high-leverage moments later in the year.

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7. Coach/Program Perspective: Stats & Heisman Awareness Matter

Timestamps: 33:06 – 34:54

• Doug describes OSU’s visible pride in producing Heisman candidates, evidenced by the trophy plaques outside Ryan Day’s office.

  “That matters to him… He cared that Chase Young made it to New York... He cared.” (B - 33:06)

• It’s not the first priority, but the program is aware of national recognition and will not let a superstar receiver be overlooked in big games/stats.

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8. Contested Catches & Chemistry with Sayin

Timestamps: 36:59 – 44:39

• Stat breakdown: Carnell Tate is 10-of-11 (91%) on contested catches, best in America, while Smith is 2-of-10 (20%), near the bottom.
• The context: Most of Tate’s looks are perfectly placed; Smith often draws tougher coverage and tighter throws, some ball placement issues, some just “weird stats.”

  “He has made so many ridiculous plays that we sort of expect him to catch every one, no matter the quality of the throw.” (A - 39:53)

• No issue with chemistry, just variance, circumstance, and outstanding plays by Tate.
• Smith may also have been a little “nicked up” post-Illinois (back hit), limiting explosive plays versus Wisconsin, but this is not a persistent concern.

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9. Appreciating Tate & the Dangers of Comparison

Timestamps: 46:51 – 49:41

• Much of the “what’s wrong with Smith?” chatter is really a sideways way of acknowledging how special Carnell Tate’s sophomore leap is.
• Both can be excellent:

  “Both can be excellent... it’s awesome for their passing attack and for Julian Sayin and for what they want to accomplish this year…” (A - 48:45)

• Defenses still prioritize Smith, and the moment they don’t, expect an explosion.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Doug, on fan anxiety:

  “The number one discussion around Ohio State this year is they're too boring. Their excellence is boring, their efficiency is boring.” (B - 06:01)

• Bill, on coverage impact:

  “He’s had less space to operate [this year]... That just cuts down on the explosion.” (A - 10:06)

• Doug, on stats context:

  “The numbers on everything are going to be lower because they changed the clocks, but also because Ryan Day changed how he wants to play offense.” (B - 24:30)

• Bill, on internal program priorities:

  “He’s also, I’ve heard him several times this year compare Jeremiah Smith to LeBron James.” (A - 34:36)

• Doug, on Carnell Tate’s rise:

  “If the conversation around Jeremiah Smith before the season was he’s the best player in college football, and then you watch the game and you think, well, Carnell Tate is as good as Jeremiah Smith... 90% of that is Carnell Tate is unbelievable.” (B - 47:32)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:06–03:36 – Intro to the Jeremiah Smith/Carnell Tate discourse
• 05:04–13:23 – Target volume, reading stats in context
• 14:12–24:30 – Play breakdowns, QB decisions, offensive design
• 24:30–27:31 – Pace, play count, how it impacts stats
• 27:31–34:36 – Adjustments, slot usage, “saving” special plays
• 36:59–44:39 – Contested catches, advanced receiver stats, injury notes
• 46:51–49:41 – Celebrating Tate, framing comparisons, defensive priorities

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Conclusion / Tone

Doug and Bill are unequivocal: there is no “Smith problem.” Both receivers are elite, the offense is maximizing its opportunities within a slower, surgically efficient framework, and Carnell Tate’s rise is to be celebrated, not feared. For fans worrying about stat lines or snap-to-snap highlight plays—take the hosts’ advice: both WRs are stars, and the best is likely still to come as Ohio State unveils more of its playbook down the stretch.

“Ohio State really, like, truly might have the two best receivers in the country.” (A - 36:01)

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The Bill and Doug Show reminds Buckeye Nation to enjoy the ride, appreciate efficiency (even when “boring”), and recognize that Tate and Smith form possibly the best receiving duo in college football—right now, and for the high-stakes showdowns ahead.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show. We're talking receivers, Bill Landis, as you're joined by Bill Landis and Douglas Maurice. And Ohio State has two excellent receivers, Bill. And maybe it's because Carnell Tate's season has been surprising in a lot of ways. It's been outstanding. It's been a little more co headlining with Jeremiah Smith than I think people anticipated, which has led, not surprisingly. And it's not unwarranted, but also it's a little bit. Maybe our Ohio State fans like looking for things to be worried about sort of. Well, not what's wrong with Jeremiah Smith. That. That is not it at all. But just a little curious about almost why is Carnell Tate as good as Jeremiah Smith? And it's like, well, maybe it's because Carnell Tate is awesome, but then there's just a little bit of like a scooch right, of yeah, is Jeremiah Smith maybe not exactly what people expected, even though he is fourth in the nation in targets among power conference receivers and he is in yards, he is eighth. So it's like, how come Jeremiah Smith is only eighth in the nation in receiving yards among power contract receivers? And it's like, well, I don't know. There's a million things, but also that's still awesome.

[A]

Yeah, he's also like fifth or sixth in touchdowns and I think like seventh in catches. He's like top 10. Top 10 and everything. So, yeah, there's definitely a, a hint of, of that. I don't know the right way to quite characterize it either, because it's not, it's not what's wrong with Jeremiah Smith again, to like kind of state the obvious. There's nothing wrong with him. He's awesome. I do, I do think it's a bit surprising, as you mentioned, that the offense is not simply throw the Jeremiah. But that's great for Ohio State, right? It's just maybe not exactly what people expected coming into the year. And you're also coming off of a game against Wisconsin where Carnell Tate made probably the catch of the year for Ohio State.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And simultaneously Jeremiah Smith had a couple like 50, 50 opportunities that he did that he did not catch, which I think we'll talk about. So like you, you do these side by side comparison from that game and I suppose I could see that what would lead you to like, well, what's going on here? Like, is this okay kind of thing? And like, I think our answer is like, of course it's okay. There's. I don't Think there's anything wrong? I just think it's different than what we expected. It's a credit to Carnell Tate. I also think, fairly, we should like some of Carnell Tate's successes because he plays with Jeremiah Smith. Right. I think anybody who watches the games understands that. But he's awesome. They're both awesome. So I don't. I'm not, like, concerned about anything. I don't know. I don't really know that anybody should be. But I will at least acknowledge that it is a bit of a different dynamic than probably was expected coming into the season.

[B]

I. I will say I've had a couple people come up and say this to me. They'll say things like, I love Bill, Bill's still great, but are we sure that Bill is really getting it done as a podcaster? And then I just say, well, it's because I'm also good. And like, that's like, it doesn't make Bill worse. But you're surprised about how good I am. And so I just don't want that to reflect poor, poorly on you. But I think you've handled it great.

[A]

Thank you. I'll take the. The comparison where I'm Jeremiah Smith.

[B]

Do you know how hard it was for me to make you Jeremiah Smith in that comparison and not myself? So, by the way, so three things real quick. One, if you want more substack stuff, like more Ohio State stuff from us, we have a sub stack and we're writing about this on the sub stack as well because we got a lot of questions about it. So we're answering Carnell Tate, Jeremiah Smith questions and in written form over there. BillAndDug OSU substack.com We'd invite you to come join us. Second thing, like, subscribe, whatever. Like, you're listening to this, you're watching this, and you're like, oh, this is. I like this so far. Like, subscribe so you don't miss anything, right? We would just like, like do it right now before. Pause it and do it. Just like go hit that thing. And then the other thing is. Roback.com r h o-b a c k.com it's here. Fall is here. Fall is here. Quarter zip time, hoodie time. Feel like you're supporting your team. It's the game day collection. They have all kinds of great Ohio State stuff, Bill, but it's high quality, it's classy, it reps Ohio State, but it's also maybe like a little more subtle than some of the things you have. It's just like, I know you have a lot of Ohio State gear as a loyal Ohio State fan, but still, go check out Roback anyway, right, Bill?

[A]

Yeah. These hoodies are sweet, man. They got Caleb Downs here at the top of the screen, rocking a nice hoodie with a buckeye leaf in the middle. And as you mentioned, there's a chill in the air, and it is hoodie time. So I recommend going. There's a nice crew neck here. You got great stuff for when the weather turns a bit colder.

[B]

Yeah, go do it now. Go check it out right now. And if you do it and you put in an order for the first time, your first order, you're saving 20%. You put in the code bad 20, bad 20, you save 20%. All right, I have four things here as we think about how Ohio State is using Jeremiah Smith and working Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tate together. Let's. Let's go with this one. First, the idea of, are they. You said, like, if people thought the whole offense would be like, get the ball to Jeremiah Smith. Right. And maybe it hasn't. I think it also kind of has been that because, as we noted, he's fourth in the Power 4 in targets. Jordan Tyson from Arizona State has 90 targets this year in seven games, which is unbelievable. And I asked you before the show, why is that? Why is that, Bill?

[A]

Because he's the only person they have to throw the ball to.

[B]

Yeah. So it's like, is that what you want? Is that like. That's not the answer. So he's such an outlier, it's almost not worth comparing him to anybody else. Right. That's not what Ohio State fans want then. Jacob De Jesus From Cal has 69. Brandon Staley from Tennessee has 65. Jeremiah Smith from Ohio State has 63. Chris Bell from Louisville and Omega Blake from Arkansas have 62. Makai Lemon, who's another great Big Ten receiver, has 61. Like all this, like, it's. Elijah Surratt from Indiana has 57. Denzel Boston from Washington has 56. They are getting him the ball. Ryan Williams from Alabama has, like, 35 targets. Like, that's. That's a problem. This is not a problem. And so we've talked about this before. There was a time in Marvin Harrison Jr. S second season season as a starter where they were not getting him the ball early, and then it clicked in. I actually think this is a victory of getting him the ball, and he's probably not getting the ball in exciting ways. There's more like eight yard outs and that kind of thing. But the whole point is that defenses want to take away the exciting plays. Jeremiah Smith and Ohio State, rather than saying, oh well, they're gone. They, they are making sure they get him the ball in boring ways. And now we're back. Like the number one discussion around Ohio State this year is they're too boring. Their excellence is boring, their efficiency is boring. It applies to both the team and also to Jeremiah Smith in a way because he is getting the ball.

[A]

Yeah, he's, I think he's getting the ball plenty. You're right. Like, especially as, as Ohio State gets more into this world of throwing those run pass options where, where the receivers are kind of either running a hitch or like a speed out, like those are, there's going to be 78 yard catches and Jeremiah Smith's going to be in the other end of a lot of those. So like I actually didn't look up like his depth of target, I'd imagine it's not particularly deep compared to a lot of other receivers because of that, but it's efficient. Like think, you must think of it as like a handoff to Jeremiah Smith for 8 yards, right? It's, it's incredibly efficient and so important to what Ohio State wants to do offensively to kind of like get some momentum going, get teams to, to change the way they're defending them so they can run the ball a little easier so they can get corners closer and start throwing the ball over people's heads. Like, like those, those plays are necessary to make all of that happen. But through seven games, there's just been, there's just been a lot of that. It's not only that. I think, I think in the games where teams have tried to challenge Ohio State with man coverage and that hasn't happened a lot, but when it has happened, they've done a nice job of, of using all of their receivers. Not just Jeremiah, but, but Jeremiah specifically more down the field. But I think, you know, as with anything, you do have to take into consideration how teams are defending Ohio State. And at the moment, the way they're defending Ohio State and particularly the way they're frank defending Jeremiah, lead you to use him kind of on those shorter sort of concepts.

[B]

Actually. His average depth of target and his yards per reception are actually pretty normal for good receivers. He just does not compare to last year's Jeremiah Smith. Last year he averaged 17.3 yards per reception, which, which is ridiculous for a guy with 1300 yards because sometimes when your yards perception is that high, it's because you're a deep ball specialist who has 31 catches for 781 yards or whatever. He's not that. So 17.3 yards per reception last year is through the roof, is it not?

[A]

Yeah, it's pretty high for. For that. That volume. Yes, it's pretty high.

[B]

So it's 12.3 this year. So it's 5 yards fewer per reception. And then average depth of target last year it was 12.8 yards. That's like, how far does the ball travel in the air when they're throwing you the ball? Last year, 12.8, this year, 10.2. So again, as we always talk about with Ohio State, sometimes the best standard for Ohio State is to itself, but sometimes the most difficult standard to Ohio State is to itself. But when you go through average depth of target and yards per reception for, like, a lot of other guys, this is not like, way under it, you know, it's not like, oh, no, what is happening here? It's just not quite what it was a year ago.

[A]

Right. And I think if you look at. It's interesting, like, his yards per route run are basically the same this year. It's 3.15 last year, 3.14 this year. But his yards after the catcher are. Are somewhat different. He's averaging about 2 yards fewer after the catch per reception reception this year compared to last year. He just has less space like. Like he was. Yes, as the season went on last year, he got less space, but from the jump this year he's. He's had less space to operate. And that just cuts down on the explosion. He is as efficient as he was last year, perhaps even more efficient. But the explosivity, I think, is. The lack of it, I think is the thing that people are maybe scratching their head at a little bit.

[B]

But.

[A]

But I do think a lot of it makes sense when you consider all the attention that he's getting.

[B]

So one of the other things that people have suggested is like, are. Is he the first read often enough, and I'm just a man, but I re. Watched the first drive against Wisconsin, for instance, when they came out and threw the ball in every play except one. By my TV copy, looking at things. So they threw eight passes on that drive. One was a quick little flip to Max Claire that that was clearly the design. Right. And one was a screen to Brandon Ennis that that was clearly the design. So those are two of them. And you could take the Max Claire. One. Jeremiah Smith is out there blocking, right? That's what. That's Designed for the other six throws by what I could tell where he was lined up and where Julian Saiyan seemed to look first. Now bald. No. Or Bill Landis also. Are there not times when a quarterback. He looks somewhere first, but that's not actually the first read. He's looking there on purpose to draw the defense, and then he's getting to where the ball's actually supposed to go, right?

[A]

Yeah, all the time. Yeah.

[B]

So I don't know. I'm just saying where Julian Sayan looked. Okay. On these other six throws, I would say five times he looked at Jeremiah Smith first. And the other time it was either Jeremiah Smith or Carnell Tate. I couldn't really tell. And then that six. That six passes, Jeremy. Jeremiah Smith got the ball twice. But the idea of. Are they not looking at him enough? That's a tiny little snapshot. And I did not go through all of Julian Sands throws from the first seven games to see where he was looking first. But this was like, I think to people that was the best encapsulation of a successful Ohio State passing game. The first drive against Wisconsin, and they looked at Jeremiah Smith every time that it wasn't a little quick little screen to somebody.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I, like, I don't. I don't think they're. And either they're either looking at him because he's legitimately the first read, or they're using the attention he's drawing to draw the defense even more within the play and then going to somebody who's open. So either one of those are effective uses or effective attempted uses of Jeremiah Smith.

[A]

I just don't think in college football, quarterback play being what it is at that level, that your guy who's leading the team in targets is the guy who's often the second or third read in the progression, especially in a place like Ohio State. So, like, he leads a team in targets because he's often the first read.

[B]

By a lot.

[A]

Yeah, by a lot. He has 20 more. 20 more targets than Carnell Tate does. So, like, I don't know. Like, yeah, they're with within certain concepts. Like, there's always like the bing, bang, boom and like, where your eyes go first.

[B]

And then.

[A]

I'm not saying it's always Jeremiah Smith, but it. It often is him. Like, I guess, like, the thing I would say to that is, like, Ohio State is not purposefully designing its offense in a way where Jeremiah Smith is like, not the first read for Julian saying. Or like. Or that the ball wouldn't go to him enough. You can't drop back and have him be your first read every time. But I, I would imagine on a large percentage of the times Julian saying is dropping back, the first thing he's thinking is number four, even if the ball doesn't end up going there.

[B]

So within that there was one particular play. I'm going to do it. I know you said don't do it. You're the chief.

[A]

Pull it up, man. Do it.

[B]

I'm going to do it anyway. Do it. It's a screenshot from the game. If you're listening on a podcast, we will describe it to you. If you're watching here on YouTube, this is a screenshot from what turned into a checkdown to Bo Jackson. And if you can't exactly see it. Exactly. The guy, the, the guy in white on the left side of the screen running deep between two Wisconsin defenders. That's Jeremiah Smith. Julian Sands in the pocket. You can see Bo Jackson is standing on the W. He's the check down that is going to get the ball. There's an Ohio State receiver to the right with a guy on him and another guy lurking. There's an Ohio State receipt. That's Carnell Tate, I think there's a guy in the middle of the field. That's Brandon Innis with two guys on him. There's a flat footed defender short of Jeremiah Smith and then there's somebody running with Jeremiah Smith. And you can see the safety in the middle of the field is lurking a little bit. But as I look at this Bill, this looks like an opportunity to get Jeremiah Smith the ball deep. I don't think the middle safety is going to get over there and he has leverage on the inside guy. If you throw this down the middle of the field and, and lead him a little bit, it feels like there's something there. There's also a, like the pocket has collapsed a tiny bit. I'm not a thousand. He wasn't sure he got Julian could step into this.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, there was so like, I mean, look again, if you're not watching on YouTube, you can't tell us. His right tackle is to his left, so Philip Daniels is behind him and to the left. So there was pressure off the right side. Julian had to step up, but he also, in stepping up had time to like reset his feet and look downfield. Like I, when I, when I rewatched the game, I thought to myself, like, that was probably a missed opportunity to throw to get a shot to Jeremiah. And they don't always present themselves. And you sent this to me. And I said, yeah, like, this is. This is probably the. And again, it's not a criticism of Julian saying. Because, like, this was a check down the Bo Jackson that I think one for like, 15 yards, right?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So it's not like it was a bad play, but with the way that Ohio State is being defended most often. And. And by that, I mean, like, they see a ton of COVID three. J Bud Davis, great follow on Twitter.

[B]

Like.

[A]

Like, sends out these profiles of teams offensively and, like, what they run out of, what they. What they see defensively. And Ohio State see. Sees middle of the field, closed coverage, which is either cover 3 or cover 154 of the time. And they see zone, which would be cover 363 of the time. So, like, they've hardly ever seen any cover one, and they see a bunch of COVID three. And the way you attack that, at least one of the ways is down the seams. And in every game this year, I feel like I've seen opportunities to attack the seams. And Julian saying has not started to, like, regularly pull that trigger just yet. I think he will, but he's not yet. That's why I thought the touchdown pass to Carnell Tate to start the game was so encouraging, because that was, like, right down the middle of the field. Wasn't against cover three. It was against cover.

[B]

And had to reset himself on that, too.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Different coverage, but, like. Like, it's deep down the middle, basically, is kind of the idea. But, yeah, I think. I think this is a good play to. To call out, because I thought, again, he was pressured, he was stepping up. There's also pressure coming down on him. He ends up on this play, like, kind of throwing this pass off balance sort of to his side to Bo Jackson. So it wasn't the cleanest pocket, but I thought there was an opportunity to throw this down the seam. And there have been others this year, whether it's Jeremiah, Max, Claire, Cornell, Tate, They've all had it. But it's probably impacted Jeremiah the most to not take these shots. So that is. That is absolutely an area where the passing game needs to continue progressing because it's the coverage that Ohio State sees most often, and it's a way to attack it with, like, explosives and. And, like, that's the thing that Ohio State is still, I think, searching for is those. Those explosive plays. Right. And this is probably, I. I think, fairly assessed as a missed opportunity for one of those.

[B]

Yeah. And I do think it remains the thing. And again, this is not just us talking like we talk to people. It's, it's like the one thing, I think it's the one thing left for Julian saying. And, and we're not the. Like, they know it. They know it, sure. But also if you force it there and step up in a way where you can't get everything behind it and now all of a sudden you just threw a pop up to the, to that middle safety who if you make a good throw isn't going to get there if you short arm it or can't get your, your body into it. Now all of a sudden you're risking an interception and like, as you said, it's like. So what happened? Well, he threw a turbo check down to Bo Jackson who now has started to turn what should be 6 yard checkdowns into 11 yard checkdowns. And the next throw he made was the touchdown pass to Carnell Tate. So it's like, oh, he missed a touchdown. It's like, oh, then you mean they got the touchdown. Anyway, so this is like we're having a conversation, I think, not about the Ohio State offense, not about Ohio State winning, but having a conversation about Jeremiah Smith. And if here's the thing, because there's been some, some idea of like, man, like trying people who are trying to read body language, right? I, I couldn't tell on the end of this, but if this is only an if, if at the end of that play Jeremiah Smith pulled up and like went like, dropped his shoulders a little bit and was like, like thinking to himself, man, I had him. That was an opportunity. That is not frustration. That is like what receivers do on every play. There's plays there. I again, I watched the end of the Missouri Alabama game. Bo Prabula threw it to an Alabama defender and there was like a guy on Missouri jumping up and down like, why didn't you throw the ball to me? Right, right. So there's like, that's frustration. This is not that. This is just. I think every time any receiver feels like he beat his guy and is open and doesn't the ball's not thrown his way, he goes like this. So if you're, if you've got the, the old spyglass on number four. Arg. I see Jeremiah's showing some frustration with Julian. It's like, no, he's not. He just went because he thought he had a guy. Because guess how many times a game Jeremiah Smith beats his guy? 30.

[A]

Almost every time.

[B]

Yeah, but it doesn't have 30 targets a game. So like just what happens? So anyway, like the Idea of. Are they not targeting him enough? Are they not looking at him enough? I think we would disagree with that.

[A]

I would. I would vehemently disagree with that. But I want to say one more thing, like, about. About this particular throw. We're talking about this, like, down the seam throw. And I don't. I love. I love a lot of what Julian saying does. He's excellent, but he doesn't have, like, a one raw arm strength right when he. When he wants. Even, like the throw to Carnell Tate, like, he had to. He had to put some oomph into that to get it there. He's insanely accurate. He's great off platform, but he's not, you know, six foot five. Dude. He can really drive it down the field. A lot of guys who are his size aren't, like, Baker Mayfield's an anomaly because of the way he drives the ball at his size. Right. So, like, that throw is going to require, I think, a little bit more from Julian saying to, like, really get it there before that safety on the other hash gets across. And it was a dirty pocket. And I. Part of me wonders if he thought to himself, like, I can't do everything I need to do to get that ball exactly where it needs to go. And by the way, Bo Jackson's standing in front of me with nobody around them, so let me just take that. And it's 15 yards. So, like.

[B]

And I don't want to throw a pick on the first drive on the road.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. And it's not. I. I think it's. It's a. It's a bit conservative. Like, there have definitely been times this year where I thought Julian's been a little conservative. I think he's. He's slowly but surely kind of breaking out of that. And I think it's good for that to kind of happen gradually. Especially with, like, Ohio State, I think is afforded the luxury of him doing that based off who they've had to play so far. I'm not, like, fearful that he's not ever going to get to that point. I think he will, and I think he'll get there this year. But that. That is the type of throw that. That clearly he's like, not. Not quite there yet making. I think, unless, like, if he was in the pocket with nobody around him and that play broke out the same way it did, I think he would have thrown it. But because he had to move off a spot because he had to step up, and then when he stepped up, there was a guy, like, kind of Right in front of him. He didn't do it. Like I, I understand why he didn't do it.

[B]

Yeah, I think that's right. And I do think it's literally the last piece of all these things. And it's one of those things, you know what? A lot of those 6 foot 5 guys who can throw it through a wall aren't accurate, accurate. So like we all have strengths and weaknesses and you try to accentuate your strengths and work on your weaknesses. And like he knows but like the credit to him is he knows. And every time Ryan Day talks about quarterback play, he starts with take care of the ball. So like you can't. And this is where it's like at some point because they could say this if Ryan Day or Brian Hartliner, Billy Fessler looked at that play with Julian saying and all the things we just said and if they just said to him, you know what, let it rip next time. If you, if, if you don't get all of, if you don't get everything into it and the safety comes over and makes a pick, it's, he's gonna pick it at the 10 yard line. It's gonna be like a punt. We're, we're okay, take it. If they tell him that next time he will. So they have to decide if they want to tell him that. Because I would imagine what they're telling a first year starting quarterback for now is take care of the ball.

[A]

Yeah, I mean they're, they're calling, I think if you want like and like I'm not trying to pretend like I'm supreme ball knower or anything like that, but like the, the two things you see, I think probably most often from Ohio State's passing offense in terms of concepts is like one is colonel Flat. They run it a million times a game. But then the other thing they run is like hitches on the outside and then seams on the inside. They call it a lot. So like I think, and I think they call it a lot because that's like, makes sense to attack what they're seeing coverage wise. But I think like over time you just expect like, okay, we're calling it, we're calling it, we're calling it and you're not taking that shot. But hopefully you're at least seeing it and how it develops. And then like with the moment, I'll click when you're ready to make that throw. And then once he does that, like it's kind of bombs away I think because then, then either teams keep defending you that way and you keep hitting them for big plays on that or they change the way they defend you and then you open up a bunch of other stuff for the passing game. Yeah.

[B]

Okay. Another thing we want to talk about is just that Ohio State plays slow. So every, every offensive number for Ohio State. If you're doing comparisons to a Ohio State of kind of like three years ago or older, the numbers on everything are going to be lower because they change the clocks, but also because Ryan Day changed how he wants to play offense. And if you're comparing it to some other teams, like raw numbers, Ohio State's going to lose some raw number battles. So the idea that Jeremiah Smith ranks as high as he does in targets for what is literally the offense in, in FBS that has like the least amount of plays per game is remarkable. Bill, is it not?

[A]

It is. You know what else I was thinking about earlier today? They play slow. Yes. But the other thing is they don't throw incomplete passes. The clock never stops. The clock doesn't stop. They run it 50 something percent of the time and then he completes 80 of his passes. The clock is just always running. So it's like they are getting hurt is not the right word. But they play. The number of plays is limited by how efficient they are throwing the ball. Yeah.

[B]

Hey, Ryan, have you ever thought about throw more completions, get some more plays in the game? Like it is, it is crazy, but it's just like worth keeping in mind, which again, I think I've said it a million times. It really was a problem early in 2023. They weren't getting the ball to Marvin Harrison Jr. Enough. Then he had four straight games with at least 10 targets because they figured it out. This could be an actual problem and it's not right?

[A]

No, I don't. Yeah, I don't think it is at all.

[B]

And you just have to keep that in mind. Any statistical analysis of the offense, just keep in mind how slow they play. Now if you want to say to yourself, why do they play so slow? Well, that in itself is a problem. Well, like why is it a problem? Does it. Is it if you think it's hurting their chances to win or it's. It's creating fewer possessions which makes each possession matter more. And now if you get one pass that hits a guy in a helmet or one safety that falls down and now, right, you, you with a smaller sample size, each little thing matters more. Where with Ohio State you think, man, like if we just keep doing it over time, this is going to work. So if you want to have a strategy session about that, I think that's. That can be a worthy conversation. But you can't be mad that they aren't playing faster than to get Jeremiah Smith more plays.

[A]

Right. And also, like, I just. I just think he's. He's got it. Like, he's doing enough, right? They're getting him the ball enough.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

If they weren't and they were playing slow, I think it'd be like, well, what's up? Like, you're. You're hindering yourself here. But I don't. I really don't think that's the case. Like, would he have more catches if they played faster? Sure, but he's already at the top of the country in a lot of the stuff we're talking about, even despite the fact that they play slow. And I think, too, I don't know if you were going to get to this, and I'm jumping the gun at all. Like, no doubt in my mind that they have things for him that they have yet to unveil. Right. Like, there's not, if you look like, how much he's played in the slot, like, it's this.

[B]

So let's talk about that. So, like, that, that slot thing, is that. Is that. Is that a key to you? It's not a magic key, but it's a key to another way of offense.

[A]

Yeah, it's. I think so. It's a key to getting him some different matchups. It's a key, I think, to getting him down the middle of the field. Like in that play you put up early on the screenshot, he was lined up in the slot on that play. Like, it does happen. But I'm even thinking of, like, the. The first big play last year in the Rose bowl against Oregon. He's in the slot. They play action toward him as he comes across the motion, and they flip him the ball in the flat and he runs by the whole defense. Like, they haven't tried that yet. They will. They haven't tried. They haven't tried it yet. They've thrown him a couple screens, but not a ton. They put them in the backfield a little bit, but, like, there's. There's stuff to get into with that, too. I think there's. There's. There's a lot that I think in the past we've seen Ohio State do with its receivers that they've not yet done with Jeremiah Smith that I also think they can do with Carnell Tate if they chose to. But I do think they're kind of just taking what's being given to them right now, but it has created this air of, like, where are the explosive plays? Where are the wow plays with Jeremiah in particular, because a lot of what he's doing at the moment is kind of like eating your vegetables a little bit, which is like, no one likes to do that. I understand.

[B]

You know what? I've really come around. I actually like vegetables now, and I actually take offense that you are equating. Sorry, Slow offense to vegetables. Brussels sprouts, banger, green beans, snow peas. Come on. Come on. You like vegetables, too? Do you like vegetables?

[A]

I like vegetables. I like vegetables, but I'd rather have a burger.

[B]

So his slot percentage this year, according to PFF, he's admitted a slot 15.1% of the time. Last year, he was in a slot 15.8% of the time. But I think. Here's the thing, Bill, that I think is the most interesting about this. In the opener against a Texas defense that a year ago took him away, that they were focused on. We are not gonna let Texas take him away. He was in the slot 30 of the time.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And he has not been, like, the last. So then since that, he was 21 against Grambling, and then 6 and 6%, 16, 19, 4%, 15%. So, like, they're not. Like, when they think they need to do it, they'll do it again.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So. So to your point, like, so. So Texas was 30. Like, if they feel if. If Penn State has a game plan form and they come out for two drives, like, I'll be very curious, like Jim Knowles for everything. Jim Knowles is and isn't what he is. Is very familiar with Ohio State's offense. So. Yes. And also they could. We could see much more slot. Trying to throw them off.

[A]

Yeah. I think now, obviously, the dynamics of this Penn State game have changed because James Franklin is fired and Penn State is no longer in the championship race. But it's a game. You circle either way, right. And it's a game like, they want to put it on Jim Knowles's defense, like, let someone make no mistake about it. They have.

[B]

They.

[A]

They came into the season thinking, we're gonna have some stuff for that game. Now, maybe they won't do it because Penn State's in a different place, but I think they will. So I think. I think you'll see an uptick in slot snaps for Jeremiah in that game or like, some different stuff with him against Penn State. And then. And then you'll see more of it, hopefully against Michigan. And then certainly in the postseason, it.

[B]

Is one of these things. One of the. One of the ongoing conversations of over two decades of doing this is, what is Ohio State saving for Michigan? And then when maybe Ohio State is saving things, people are like, why aren't they doing anything? What are they doing saving this stuff? And it's like, well, maybe so.

[A]

Yeah, it can be overstated at times, like, the idea of saving things. But, I mean, we saw it like, that the postseason is indication. Like. Like there were things in that Oregon game, especially in the Rose bowl, like they hadn't really done all year. It happens.

[B]

Yeah. Let me. Let me throw in a quick little thing here that I do think matters, because it is just something I have observed, and I was not untoward, but I was standing in. In the outer office of Ryan Day's office. So they. When you go into Ryan Day's office, it's right. It's down a hallway. It's right across from the team room. And the team room is where the team meets, but it's also where he has his news conference on Tuesdays with the media. So anybody who's seen that, that's the team room. When he leaves, he exits to his right. And then he goes up three little steps and goes through a door. And when you go through that door, there's a hallway, and then right across from the hallway, the hallway is two steps wide. Right across from the hallway is his office. And there is a person, like his assistant who sits at a desk at the front of his office. And then you. There's like, a little kitchen. And actually, now, I'm not, like, describing, like, how to break into this Louvre thing that you talked about the other day. Am I giving a diagram of how to break into Ryan Day's office? I'm not. Am I?

[A]

No. You have to get through, like, six doors before you're even in the team room. So.

[B]

Okay. Yeah. So the whole point of this is there's the outer office where his assistant sits, a little kitchen, and then his big office right on the wall. Like, right where the. Where the little kitchen is. Right before you go into his office are Heisman Trophy, like, plaques of all the players who have made it to New York as Heisman finalists while Ryan Day is the head coach.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

And all that tells me is that that matters to him.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And so it is nowhere near the first priority. All. He said it a million times this year. The goal is to win. The goal is to win. The goal is to win. But if you think he doesn't care about that at all, or he's not aware of it, or he's not having people double check stats for him or trying to like he cares. He cared that Chase Young made it to New York. He cared that Justin Fields got it there. He cared this and not for himself, but like, as a representation of his team as for those players to have that life experience and to be honored in that way. So we just did a whole show on Julian saying's Heisman chances. But you know what I think would make Ryan Day super excited? To get Julian saying and a receiver to New York. And so to do that, you've got to throw these guys the ball. And I'm not saying that they're going to like, pad stats and try to get Jeremiah Smith 200 receiving yards and three touchdowns against Rutgers, but they might.

[A]

Oh, they might. They were trying to get him a touchdown against Wisconsin.

[B]

So that's like just a side thing. But it is, I think, just to remind people that all this statistical stuff, it is not, it is not a zero percent thing for the head coach. It is not a complete afterthought. Right. Because he understands the realities of the situation.

[A]

Yeah. And he's also, I've heard him several times this year compare Jeremiah Smith to LeBron James. So like he's, he's fully aware of what he has at his disposal and intends on using him. It just so happens that he might have like prime Dwyane Wade with him too. And Cardinal Tate.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, and, and who knew? So like that that's nothing but a good thing for Ohio State. I was looking, by the way, I, I, I like, I like yards per route run as, like a, as a, as a good receiver stat. And like three or above is really good. There are only 14 P4 receivers that are three or better and two of them play for Ohio State. Two of them play for Indiana, but two of them play for Ohio State. So like, what those guys are doing is pretty ridiculous. And actually even like in the, in the past, I went back to 2018 when Ohio State really started letting the ball fly. So that's eight seasons. There have only been three other instances of Ohio State having two receivers with a yards yards per route run rate better than three. So it's not like it happens every year even when Ohio State has really good receivers. So the fact that both those guys are there right now is awesome. Maybe, maybe if you look at Jeremiah compared to last year, he's a little worse in that category, but he's still good. Maybe like an expectations that he would have, like, been better. I get. Like, we're not off base, but it's not like anything he's doing is bad. Yeah.

[B]

So.

[A]

And Ohio State really, like, truly might have, like, the two best receivers in the country. Yeah.

[B]

So that's a good indication. Like, they're not wasting his time. No, they're not just having him go be a decoy, draw the safety help, and then let us run the offense 10 on nine on the rest of the field. Right. Like, that's like, that's the kind of thing that I would understand if that. That really could frustrate a receiver. But that, like, that's not what's happening.

[A]

No, I think. And like, you know, this past game, I watched it and then I rewatched it, and I rewatched it again, just like looking for anything that I thought might be, I don't know, alarming even the slightest bit. I don't know that I saw it, but, like, I would imagine it was a little bit of a frustrating game for Jeremiah Smith because there were three shots to the end zone that, like, he kind of got his hands on and didn't reel in, but they were, like, all for different. I. The first one was under thrown.

[B]

Let's go there. Let's go.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, you want to give your stat. You want to give the. The contestant catch numbers first.

[B]

Let's go to contested catches.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Last year, Ohio State receivers. This is all from pff. Again, they have stats for everything. Contested catches last year for Ohio State receivers, however, they characterize that like, you know, fit balls in the air, and there's a defender there and a receiver there, and you've got to go make a play. Carnell Tate caught 60 of his contested catches last year, 6 for 10. Buka was 59, 13 of 22. Jeremiah Smith was 55%, 12 of 22. Okay. This year, Carnell Tate is 10 of 11. That's 91%. And everybody in the nation who's ahead of him are like, two for two. There's a handful of guys who haven't had many chances. Carnell Tate is, like, by far the best contested catch receiver in America this year. He is 10 of 11. Jeremiah Smith is 2 for 10. And when you run through, like, all the contested catch stuff, like that is near the bottom. And so that is the proof that we have that Jeremiah Smith has completely lost it. Sorry. But it's. It's an odd. It's an odd stat.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Which is why you are responsible for explaining it.

[A]

It's Not. It's definitely an odd stat. I think there's a couple things. And so I just went. I went back and watched all three of the. He was over three against Wisconsin. I watched all three before we started. The first one, Jeremiah Smith beat. Beat the guy covering him ball to the end zone, saying, threw it to the front pylon. He should have threw it to the back pylon. And if. I think if he did, it would have been a touchdown. The second one was, like, slightly under thrown. I think it might have hit the DB like, in the back of the head. And Jeremiah, like, tried to jump over him and grab it, and he couldn't do it. But I also thought to our discussion earlier that Julian maybe did not get all of what he wanted to get on that throw because there was pressure. He, like.

[B]

It didn't.

[A]

If you, like, watch it from the back, you. He didn't 100 step into it. He kind of, like, pulled the string a little bit. And then the last one was probably the best. Best thrown one because it was high and it was sort of away from the defender. But that defender just, like, shot his hand up, I think not even looking, just threw his hand up in the air. And I think kind of got lucky that it sort of, like, grazed his hand and Jeremiah couldn't quite get his hands on it. I do think it's true that. And I don't know why. I couldn't explain why. This case, like, the. The ball placement from Saying when he's throwing to Tate in contested situations, I think has been significantly more consistent than it has been with Jeremiah. And I don't. I don't know why that would be the case. Part. Part of me wonders if it's like, you know, how good he is. So you're willing to, like, attempt contested throws to Jeremiah that might not be in perfect situations. Whereas, like, if you're throwing them to anybody else, you're gonna make sure you get everything you possibly can get on that throw, because they're not Jeremiah Smith. That's maybe me overanalyzing it, but. And I've seen, like, some conversations on Twitter about it, too. Like, I do. I do like saying and Tate have, like, a really nice rapport right now. And I don't think that he and Smith have a bad one. But I. I think. I do think that can vary player to player for a quarterback. And it probably is true at the moment that that sayings report with Tate is a little stronger than Smith's, but I don't think either one's bad. But in some of these contested situations, I do think the throws could maybe be a little better. And then it doesn't help Jeremiah that he's made so many ridiculous plays that we sort of expect him to catch everyone, no matter the quality of the throw. So I think. I think maybe we're using that against him a little bit, too.

[B]

And also, at least on the first two, wasn't it Ricardo Hallman, Wisconsin's best corner, who was covering, I think the first time in those situation, which again, is one of those situations, like. Well, I mean, it's not every single time, but more often than not, maybe your number one receivers get in the number one corner, and then that makes it slightly more difficult too. So.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I.

[B]

And I. I'd be willing to chunk. To chalk a chunk of that up to, like, man, weird stuff happens. And I don't think at the end of the year, I would not expect Carnell Tate's contested catch, you know, percentage to be 90 and Jeremiah Smith to be 20. I don't. I don't. That's halfway through the year. That's where it is. But then also. And then Tate makes that unbelievable play on the first touchdown, and you couldn't have done it better. Like, you can't play receiver better than Carnell Tate played it on that play. But I bet Jeremiah Smith. Part of Jeremiah Smith is like, oh, man, I want to do that. You know, and it's like, okay, like. Like if he had been the exact guy running that route between two defenders and Julian Sen makes the exact throw, he probably does the exact same thing. But he just has had again, like, just. There were a couple of those worth. You thought he was gonna moss a guy, and he didn't quite possum. But, yeah, I don't think it is a fundamental shortcoming. It's just kind of a thing that's happened. Which leads us to the last thing I have written down, which is you maybe thought that Jeremiah Smith was just not 100% healthy all the way. All the way. All the way against Wisconsin, and you thought maybe you saw a couple of things here and there to indicate that.

[A]

Yeah, I just thought, like, he's. He's just so explosive that. And I. I don't know. I don't know that I saw that, like, snap to snap against Wisconsin. I really do wonder if the hit that he took against Illinois the game before where he was like, clearly favoring his back afterward, just carried into the next week. There were some times even on a couple of the contested balls. We were just talking. We're talking about. I thought at least on one of them, like, that's usually a play where Jeremiah is going to run past that DB and he didn't do it. Does anybody think Jeremiah Smith is slow? No. So, like, I, I just, I don't. I don't. Again, I'm not. My intention with this was not to make it like the, the excuse. Jeremiah Smith's excellent play podcast. But if we're just talking about that game specifically, I, I really, you know, I thought he blocked okay and, and was good like finding space and providing outlets for Julian saying he did have like, like nine catches and he was targeted 13 times. And I guess game. It's not like the ball didn't come his way, but especially with some of the downfield stuff, I thought he did not look as explosive as he normally does.

[B]

And again, it's just all. It is like we're making excuses for a guy who doesn't need excuses made for me. He has 49 catches at six in the country. It's third in the power, tied for second. The power four tied for second behind a guy with 90 targets. So, like, I just like, it's, it's. But we're talking about it because our Substack subscribers, some of them brought it up to us. And so I think it's worth. If fans. This is, I mean, this is just the way we do this job. If fans are talking about something, then it's worth talking about because you care about this team. You watch every game. You love this team with all your heart and soul. And if you're bringing something up, then okay. And a lot of times we try to bring that, we bring that attitude to news conferences. We want to ask coaches, we want to ask players about the things that fans are worried about. It's an off week this week. We're not bringing this to Ohio State. But we tried to delve into it a little bit, look at some numbers, go back and re. Watch different parts of the game. And if we thought like, man, they are not looking at him or man, like, he does not look like himself, we 100 would say it because we.

[A]

Did it with Marvin, I think earlier. Earlier in that year.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. There's not been really. Has there been a game this year where you thought, man, Jeremiah hasn't gotten the ball enough?

[B]

No, I'm actually like just been very soothed by their. Was there a game where maybe he didn't get a ball for like two drives?

[A]

Yes. Washington. Well, the Washington game was like, slow going. He ended up Washington having eight catches on nine targets. But for the first like 20 minutes of that game, everyone was like, can you throw the ball to Carnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith, please?

[B]

Yeah. So I think overall it can be. And just having seen Ohio State unsuccessfully force things at times, you know, the. The whole. The Braxton Miller thing in 2015, which was different, but also is still trying to throw to receivers, like, man, you are just forcing it here. And Mike, meanwhile, Michael Thomas went through a whole career. Michael Thomas had like 793 receiving yards. The national championship year when he was the best receiver in college football. Didn't get the ball. And so like. And that, you know, that was just because they were running the quarterback and handing the ball to Ezekiel Elliott and then again, Marvin Harrison Jr. In 23, they spent the first month they didn't throw in the ball. So there have been actual times here when it's like, man, they're forcing it too much. Maybe they're not doing it enough. And I just have not. I have not. Again, not to be. There's fans who have watched this team for 30 years and 40 years and 50 years, far more than what we've done for. For. For 20 or for 12 or whatever it is. But in my experience of watching Ohio State football, I just have not felt that. And I have felt it at times before when the offense is just not flowing. They're either allowing a dick. A defense to dictate too much and not getting a guy involved, or they're forcing it so much that it's unnatural. And I haven't felt either of those.

[A]

No, I haven't felt either of those either. And I'm just also looking like, you know, to the point of not making contested catches to go back a couple points. So he's been. According to PFF, he's been targeted 10 times in contested situations and only has two receptions. But it's not like he has a bunch of drops, right? He has two drops against Texas and he doesn't have any. In any other game.

[B]

He doesn't have any sense. Yeah, it's crazy. And then the other hard part of this isn't like, I. I think it speaks for itself. We led around the shoe with it the other day talking about Carnell T. Cardinal Tate's extraordinary.

[A]

I do wonder. Yeah, I think. And I think like whiskey. We just talked for 45 minutes, like, primarily about Jeremiah Smith. And I do wonder if some of the. The. Again, I don't know how to quite the Couch. I'll just call it concern. Maybe that's too strong, but I don't really know any other word to use it. Like the, the. The. The. The chatter about Jeremiah is. Is born from like, making sure Carnell gets his flowers, which, like, I actually, we talk a ton about Jeremiah locally, nationally. He gets a ton of attention. And like, meanwhile, Carnell's having an excellent season and not getting the same publicity. And so, like, I do think in like, a roundabout way, some of the, Some of the talk about Jeremiah could actually be coming from a good place of like, make sure people are paying attention to what Carnell's doing too.

[B]

Yeah. And Carnell. CARNELL Tate has 34 catches on 41 targets. Like, he is just absolutely maximizing every opportunity he has. And the. It can be a little difficult of. If the conversation around Jeremiah Smith was into the season was he's the best player in college football. And then you watch the game and you think, well, Cardinal type Carnell Tate is as good as Jeremiah Smith. What does that mean? It must mean that Jeremiah Smith isn't quite as good as we thought because he's the best player in college football. And I watch Carnell Tate and sometimes as a fan, I think to myself, is he better? And I think like 90% of that is Carnell Tate is unbelievable.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so it's now, but we don't have to then have the conversation be, well, is Carnell Tate the best player in college football? Is he the second best player? It's probably just Ohio State has two awesome receivers and one showed it more last year than the other did. But I think it is a natural human reaction. If something is excellent, then by comparison, you wonder if the thing next to it is maybe less excellent than you thought because it's other things. So excellent. It's just how our minds work.

[A]

Yeah. I think both can be excellent. And I like. I thought. Did you, like, catch what Ryan Day said about the two after the game against Wisconsin? He said, I forget who asked him. It might even give credit. Might have been Austin Ward or Spencer Holbrook. I can't remember Ryan Day about Carnell. He's just a different style of player than Jeremiah, but he's just as dangerous and just as good as. Which is like, I don't think anybody anticipated that coming out of his mouth coming into the season. But I certainly don't think it's a bad thing that he thinks that. He thinks that. Yeah, it's awesome for their passing attack and for Julian saying and for what they want to accomplish this year that you can say that and people don't look at you kind of cross eyed. Yeah.

[B]

But still, I think, is it fair to say defenses, their first goal is to stop Jeremiah Smith?

[A]

Yes. And if the day ever comes where that's not the case, just wait. Just wait to see what it looks like.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. And next time that the safety in the middle of the field goes to Carnell Tate's side instead of Jeremiah Smith's side.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Wave goodbye to that. So. Okay, I, I just, I think it's an interesting discussion and people care about it, so I hope that clarified some things. So.

[A]

Yeah, that's. Nobody struck the right tone. I don't want it like to be. Yeah, I don't, I don't think there's, I think it's, I think it's interesting to talk about. I don't think it's concerning and I don't, I don't want people to think we're like trying to pump up Jeremiah to take away from Carnell either.

[B]

But, but, but I think we're trying to be honest because like we already did Monday, Monday's show with, with Bill Venice with Marcus Hartman led with like, how would you describe Carnell Tate season? And all of our words were like, right. Like we were. It was so, so all these things are happening and it is not to take anybody for granted. But I also, we just would like to note that we are giving up at least 8,000 YouTube views by not making this headline what's wrong with Jeremiah Smith? So, because that's not what we think. But you know, there are some places out there that would do that. So you don't have to give us credit for it. But we also just want to reemphasize. That's not the intention here. We're just talking through what some people are asking about. So yeah, okay, we will have our national college football picks, a bunch of interesting Big Ten games to pick, couple SEC games to pick. We'll have that Friday afternoon. So you guys can find that there will not be a post game show this weekend because Ohio State is off and then Ohio State, Penn State next week. Just a bunch of stuff coming your way, including Audrey Snyder will join us here from the Nittany Dispatch podcast. So we always like when we have visiting media members come and join us. And if you missed it on this YouTube channel on these podcast feeds. Ari Wasserman joined us for a two hour show on Thursday talking about how many national title contenders are there really out there? How many teams can really win it. And if you want to join our sub stack, our Wednesday show for subscribers on Substack was an early breakdown of Ohio State, Michigan. Bill. It was our kind of like the version of a big game breakdown that you can do five weeks ahead of time. But we talked about not just what Michigan and Ohio State have been doing, but how they might match up against each other. And certainly if you want to try our sub stack, that'd be a nice little bonus thing for you to go back and get.

[A]

Yeah, it was a fun conversation and I think, like, you know, the. The right time that. But by the way, did you notice we like, we opened the show, that show talking about, like, approaches to the game, and this week Ohio State had had the band in. And instead of having the band in.

[B]

For Michigan week, I was wondering about that. That's an instead. Get it. They're getting it out of the way on the bye week.

[A]

I don't think they're gonna do it twice. I guess maybe that's something Brian Day can be asked about next week. He didn't do his radio show on Thursday to get asked about it, but yeah, they had them in. They had them in for the bye week.

[B]

I did see that. Okay, very interesting. Okay, sounds good. Thanks to you guys for being here. More stuff this week, then a big week next week. Ohio State, Penn State. We're grateful you guys are joining us here on YouTube, joining us on the podcast feed. If you want to join us on Substack, we certainly would welcome you there. Like, subscribe, Tell a friend about the Bill and Doug Show. For now, he's Bill Landis. I'm Doug Way Maurice. And that was the Bill and Doug Show.