← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Where Ohio State's 2026 football roster should be better and worse after transfer portal & NFL moves
01:13:28
Ohio State has lost players in the transfer portal, added players in the transfer portal and seen Buckeyes with NFL decisions both move on to the pros and stay in Columbus.
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- [00:02]
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- [00:56]
Bill Landis
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- [01:26]
Doug Lam Reese
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- [01:34]
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- [01:36]
Doug Lam Reese
We can just walk right in, no appointment needed. Who knew we could cover our health.
- [01:39]
Bill Landis
And wellness needs at Walmart?
- [01:40]
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- [01:45]
Doug Lam Reese
You knew. I knew.
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- [02:02]
Doug Lam Reese
Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show. Time to catch up on all the ins and outs of the Ohio State football roster. Doug Lam Reese and Bill Landis. You can find us on Substack. Bill and Doug osuubstack.com Landis we have not talked about this on this feed. Let's go, offensive line. What's in, what's out? We're just going to run through all the position groups and just talk about like what's in, what's out, what's the balance, right? Like, it feels like this roster as we record this on Thursday afternoon for the Ohio state Buckeyes in 2026, has mostly taken shape for the most part.
- [02:33]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think, you know, there's, there's still, you know, another day or so for guys to go into the portal and a couple spots where I think Ohio State is still looking to add. But it's starting, it's starting to settle. Yes, famous last words. But start.
- [02:50]
Doug Lam Reese
Want to wait quite all the way because we haven't, we haven't checked in on a bit on this and it's just, but it's going to be done. It's going to be done soon. So it's going to be done. But we were even waiting for like some of the NFL stuff to double check on like okay guys, do they. Are they staying or. Because that's some of. That's as important as anything. And we'll start in the offensive line. Well, there's nobody in, in the portal on this offensive line, Bill, but they are have, they do have three offensive linemen who announced that they were staying at Ohio State. And whether you. We thought that Austin Saravel, Carson Hensman or Luke Montgomery were real threats to go to the NFL, they considered it enough to announce that they weren't. So that's three starters back. And if they hadn't gone three for three with those starters back, they might have had to think about adding a starter level offensive lineman. So this is one of these things again where retention is part of it. Again. If we, for the people who, who read us or follow us on Substack, we did a roster building thing at some temper, then the three parts of it were the transfer portal, recruiting and retention. And while Ohio State as we speak has 30 guys in the portal and they've brought in 12. Retention also applies to like guys not going to the NFL. We talked about the 2024 team retention meant that meant after the 2023 season they probably had 10 guys with NFL decisions. Two went to the NFL, eight stayed to form the heartbeat of a national championship team. This is the kind of retention that you don't want to lose track of in the portal Madness.
- [04:28]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think that's right. I don't know. I don't think like Luke Montgomery and Carson Hinsman's NFL prospects were probably super enticing compared to what Ohio State would be able to offer them. I do wonder about Austin Saravel. Like there were some draft folks talking about him a little bit. Maybe even though he was a one year starter, I think perhaps had the opportunity to be like a day two guard. Maybe like a late third round pick a guard, fourth round pick, a guard. So that's, that's a pretty big piece I think for Ohio State to keep back. Obviously he was our best offensive lineman last year. We all know that. So I know people were not totally enamored with the play of Luke Montgomery and Carson Hinsman throughout the entire season. I thought they had good moments in bad. But to keep those three in the fold and you know, guarantee that you're going to have three pretty old, pretty experienced guys there and then kind of figure out the rest around them, I think is a pretty good spot for Ohio State to be in. And I know that Ohio State, as it just like looked at the portal, did not feel that there were clear upgrades over any of those guys. Now that was before Jordan Seaton entered, but I don't think Ohio State is going to be in the Jordan Seaton sweepstakes. So keeping those three at Ohio State was a huge priority for, for the Buckeyes in the off season.
- [05:38]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah, that's what you know, Jordan Seaton, former five star recruit who a lot of people thought was going to go to Ohio State and then Colorado kind of swooped in at the last minute and grabbed him and he's been a two year starter at Colorado. I mean the price on that's going to be through the roof. And it's just like if you think about what they have, what they need, you think about the, you know, having someone like Ian Moore who maybe seems ready to start a tackle next year, having someone like Carter Lowe as a second year player who might be ready to start at tackle, like there's enough. If you really, really needed to, you could keep Austin, Sarah vault at tackle. We're thinking about him now as a guard. Right. You think ideally the idea is Austin next year.
- [06:13]
Bill Landis
I, I don't know, like I go back and forth on it because I think Phil Daniels might need to play guard. So I guess it depends on who they figure out who they think their best five is. Right. And that's the other thing with this. So they, I think they believe strongly they have seven guys who should be ready to start next year. The three we're talking about, Phil Daniels, Josh. Is it seven guys? Josh Padilla. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [06:40]
Doug Lam Reese
And then like Carter Lowe as a second year player, big time recruitment would not be ridiculous. I don't know that you make assumptions about a second year offensive lineman, but it wouldn't be ridiculous for him to fight for a job in camp and then be like, oh man, Cardo's got a little something here.
- [06:56]
Bill Landis
Yeah, he's like, this is probably another show at some point, like most interesting guys, like in this winter workout spring ball, can you make a jump kind of period. I think Carter Lowe is pretty high on that list, so. But anyways, what I was getting at was if. If they determine that, like, Josh Padilla is among the best five and maybe Phil Daniels isn't, then Austin Servile probably has to play tackle. If it was still in that top five. It's basically the top five is the same as last year with Tegra swapped for Ian Moore. Then you have a conversation, I guess, about, like, Phil Daniels and Austin Seravel, who's better at tackle, who's better at guard. But I don't. I would love to see Saraville play guard because I think that's more his more natural position. But you also, like, might need to play Philip Daniels at guard because of some, like, physical limitations. So we'll see how that shakes out.
- [07:49]
Doug Lam Reese
I do think Austin Sarah Belt, boy, is he important. He just creates situations because he already did it in 2025, but now you can plan for him to be in this situation in 2020. In 2026, he's more of a plan. In 2025, I was like, man, like this left tackle, things not working out. I guess Austin Sarah Bell will play it. But. But now you can think to yourself, let's anticipate Ian Moore being ready to start at tackle. Let's anticipate Philip Daniels being ready to, like, make a jump at tackle. But if this anticipate, maybe Carter Lowe ready to be in the fight. But if only one of those three things happens and you're like, between Daniels, Moore and Low, you say, man, there's only one starting level tackle here right now, then Austin Seravel's your other starting tackle. And if you feel like Low, Moore and Daniels more likely more. And Daniels are two starting level tackles for Ohio State. Then Saravel bumps inside and you're ready to roll. But Sarah Belt is your. He's. He's your plan A. He's a plan A who can also be a plan B that makes your line work. So.
- [08:51]
Bill Landis
Yep.
- [08:52]
Doug Lam Reese
Why is that valuable? Is there anybody. Five guys out in the transfer portal? Devonte Armstrong, Isaiah Kemma, Tiger Shabola, Justin Terry, Javon McFadden, anybody that's like, oh, man, that would have been good for Ohio State to keep that guy.
- [09:06]
Bill Landis
I think it would have been good to try to keep Terry. It seemed like when they brought him in, he's in the one year at West Virginia, they brought him in last year and he was like, they never had to go to it, but it felt like he was their fourth tackle. And they used him in some of the. In some of the Jumbo stuff too. Right. So I think he was a guy that, you know, could have, could have been here, developed another year, been a depth tackle and then you know, in 2027 when you're probably looking for another starting tackle, maybe he's someone who's in that mix with like Carter Lowe and Sam Greer. I don't think it's a huge loss, but it's always nice to have depth. And I think he was probably the guy among that group that left that was most likely to be a part of that depth this year.
- [09:49]
Doug Lam Reese
Tiger Shabola signed with Kentucky. Just couldn't try it again for a third year as a starter. Yeah, this was not going to, not, not, not where anybody want. All right, tight end in Mason Williams from Ohio, Hunter Welsing from Northwestern out Jelani Thurman in the portal. Max Claire had an NFL decision, decided to go Will Kazmark's out of eligibility. This is Mason Williams, Hunter Welsing and Nate Roberts as your top three guys and also maybe like Welsing and Roberts working in that fullback role and plus Bennett Christians around and you got a couple younger tight ends in this room. Okay.
- [10:27]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think it's okay. A little different without Max Claire. Obviously you don't have a guy who's like kind of more of a big slot receiver. They're all, they're all pretty kind of traditional tight ends I think, which is, which is not a bad thing. I don't know. So I mentioned this before we, we started. So like Hunter Welsing from Northwestern who is going to be a seventh, seventh year guy but has like not played all that much is the number play.
- [10:56]
Doug Lam Reese
At all until his sixth year.
- [10:58]
Bill Landis
Until last year he played like 60.
- [11:00]
Doug Lam Reese
Snaps in five years and he played 440 last year.
- [11:03]
Bill Landis
Yeah. And I, I am someone who always cautions people against the value of transfer portal portal rankings because they just factor in high school recruiting rankings far too much especially for guys who are three, four and five years into their career. But Hunter Welsing out of high school many years ago was a, was a three star prospect like ranked in the thousands and he's hardly played and he's the number four tight end of the transfer portal and a four star and rated a four star transfer prospect both on 24, seven sports and on, on three and like but for by comparison like Jelani thurman's a number 12 tight end transfer and the three star prospect. So I don't know if that's just this guy's going to Ohio State. He must Be good. Or if people at these places have like actually watched him and think to themselves, like, no, this guy's got a little something to him. He's like a weird athletic profile because he was like a hockey player who decided like to switch to football and then like played some fullback, played some tight end. So I, I don't know what to make of him, but I'm just sort of intrigued by his ranking. But so, so I do think, you know, who's going to be tight end one next fall. I, I don't know that I have a great feel for that. My, my assumption would have been Nate Roberts, but maybe, maybe it's not him. Maybe it's one of these transfers. And I think among the transfers, I would have assumed, well, this guy from Ohio, Mason Williams is going to be the guy. Like, I don't know, maybe it's, maybe it's Hunter Welsing. I have, I have no idea. I do think Wilson is more of like an H back, like backfield tight end and maybe he is an inline tight end. So maybe that keeps him from being tight end one. But I'm suddenly very intrigued by that addition when I didn't really think I would be.
- [12:40]
Doug Lam Reese
Might leave you there on that intrigued island.
- [12:44]
Bill Landis
It's just weird. His ranking makes no sense. His ranking doesn't make any sense. It's not like he's a former four star, five star high school prospect who never panned out. He's the opposite of that. So why is he, why is he suddenly the number four tight end of the transfer portal? I don't, I don't know.
- [12:57]
Doug Lam Reese
Because he's 28, I guess.
- [12:59]
Bill Landis
I don't know.
- [13:00]
Doug Lam Reese
I don't know. Ohio State had a seventh year guy. I'm not even exactly sure how he has a seventh year because he has, he's old enough that he has the COVID year, but he has two other red shirt years in there. So he has a coveted year, an injury red shirt year, and then also, I don't, I don't know, but he.
- [13:15]
Bill Landis
Just asked nicely for it.
- [13:17]
Doug Lam Reese
I think they'll be worse at tight end because, because like Will Kazmaric, his first year Mason Williams profile is very much like Will Kazmaric. Will Kazmark's first year at Ohio State I think was fine. He was hurt a little bit and then his second year was good. But now you're getting the first year Mason Williams. So I think like what you had in 2025 with Max Claire, who was the best past catching tight end in college football and year two at Purdue when he came in and then year two of Will Kacmeric. I think that's better what than what this looks like unless Nate Roberts is ready for a big jump. Otherwise this seems a little to me which is fine. But yeah, I'm not super enthused about the upside of this group which I guess may be the point because it's not about upside. It's probably about experience and. And production and Williams and Welsing are super old and we think old helps win.
- [14:08]
Bill Landis
Yeah. And I think like you know Robert's recruiting profile anyway like recruiting pedigree should. Should have him like on the path to being a reliable if not like ready TE1 kind of going into a second year. So I don't know. I do think they're 12 personnels going to operate differently and we can talk more about that later. But like without their 12 personnel was basically 11 personnel with a big slot with Max Claire like that. They don't have that now. So interested to see how. Because they're still going to play with two tight ends on the field sometimes. So I'm curious what that might look like with the room kind of shaping up the way it is right now. Okay.
- [14:42]
Doug Lam Reese
I think a little step back until but like add Nate Roberts to the list of like super interesting winter workout spring ball. Is there a jump coming Guy running back Sam Dixon James Peoples out James Peoples to Penn State. Sam Dixon who briefly went in the portal last year then came back. He's at South Carolina now. That's who he signed with. Nobody in it running back yet. Although it seems like there may be D and around somebody but C.J. donaldson lost out of eligibility. But you're, you're, you know having Bo Jackson stay Bo Jackson Isaiah west does Turbo Rogers step up does one of the true fresh. It's a young room right now and the room right now is five guys. It's three second year guys and two true freshmen. Which is why probably bringing in just an older body makes sense but not necessarily an impact older body.
- [15:27]
Bill Landis
No, I don't think they're looking to bring in the guy who's going to like lead them in rushing. That's Bo who they almost lost and and paid to keep because they think he's. He's worth it at RB1. And I think they're on the. The Bo Jackson Isaiah west tandem like that we kind of talked about last year as Isaiah west kind of moved up the up the ladder a little bit. So running back is a position where I think you can afford to be young and they're going to be. But yeah, some, some veteran to come into the room and kind of like be the old guy seems to be what they want. There are a couple guys are circling. None have been added as we're talking, but I don't think whoever that player is, is not, I think would probably at best be number two in carries and my guess would be probably number three and carries behind Jackson and West.
- [16:18]
Doug Lam Reese
So it's like the room's gonna be younger because as it stands it's as we said, three second year guys and two true freshmen. But the production will be older because the production this year was a true freshman and now he'll be a sophomore. So the guy. So Bo Jackson who will have the ball in his hands a lot will have a year of football under his belt as opposed to kind of getting thrown in and being told to save the room. Isaiah west will have a year of football under his belt. Is this room good enough?
- [16:49]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I, I just think you have to, you have to believe in like Bo Jackson being on the path to being perhaps like an elite level running back. Right. Otherwise why are you doing this? So I think it's probably good enough. Yeah, that's dependent on Bo improving, but I think it's good enough.
- [17:11]
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- [17:44]
Doug Lam Reese
Receiver room. Carnell Tate to the NFL. Everybody knew that. Five guys out in the portal. Mason, Milan, Graham, Myla not Mason Graham who plays for the Browns. He played Michigan. Myelin Graham and Quincy Porter both to Notre Dame. Bryson Rogers into the portal. Demarian Whitney into the portal. Bog Pen Miller to the Portal. What do you think of the package duo of Graham and Porter to the Fighting Irish because they seem very excited about it.
- [18:07]
Bill Landis
Yeah, Notre Dame's been taking a lot of portal swings at that position over like the last three or four years. And I don't know, I think it's, it's gotten probably better progressively, but probably hasn't not quite hit the way that they would have Hoped for it to hit. And these two are probably the biggest swings that Notre Dame has made while on that journey. So we'll see. Like it was, you know, I'm more intrigued by Porter than I am Graham because we used to be solved a little bit of Graham and he didn't really pop when he had his opportunities. Porter's still very much a mystery because he was hurt. So, you know, I, I'm interested to see how it pans out. I don't. I don't know that Notre Dame got itself like two guaranteed studs, but I certainly understand why Notre Dame would want both those guys.
- [18:53]
Doug Lam Reese
It's interesting that, I mean, this is an area where Notre Dame, as you said, has been trying to upgrade these. That if we tried to play which portal losses could actually have an effect on Ohio State.
- [19:10]
Bill Landis
Right.
- [19:11]
Doug Lam Reese
Like Quincy Porter and Myelin Graham here have a chance to be like, see in the semis, like Notre Dame is like CJ Carr back as a secondary starter. So many comparisons I think between C.J. carr and Julian saying two first year starters at quarterback this year. Good year for both. I think a chance for a leap like Notre Dame is going to be out for blood in 2026. And you know, the. Whatever. Marcus Freeman. Marcus Freeman. If people were like, hey, the NFL wants him and he's like, no, I'm staying in like all this stuff. Like they are, they're going to be out to destroy college football. And like Quincy Porter and Myelin Graham are, I think, in like they feel like. And they're doing some other stuff in the portal, but like guys who can unlock the final level for Notre Dame football. And that would matter to Ohio State because Ohio State's always trying to win a national championship. And I think Notre Dame, see, sees these two guys as very important to their goals of winning a national championship.
- [20:11]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I'm looking. This is ridiculous. Notre Dame has not had a receiver with 50 catches since Chase Claypool in 2019. Yeah.
- [20:20]
Doug Lam Reese
And just trying, like really trying with some, you know. Right. Jordan Faison is the lacrosse guy and Jaden Greathouse was a big get out of Texas for them. And Malachi Fields was a, was a Virginia transfer this year. And like you can see it coming along a little bit. I mean, I thought the last couple of years they were, they were creeping up in receiver talent, but this is potentially a jump. Quincy Porter's potentially a jump. For them to add a five star second year guy who maybe profiles as. As wide receiver one for them is like a pretty gigantic deal. Devin McEwen in from UTSA.
- [20:55]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [20:56]
Doug Lam Reese
Probably be on the field a decent amount for Ohio State and they might still be looking around. If, if you, if you were trying to think about who is going to play meaningful snaps at receiver in 2026 for Ohio State, who would it be and how many guys would you say it is? Because I think like the answer this year was three. There's only three guys who played meaningful snaps.
- [21:21]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think more than three. I think it'll be more than three. I think they're still looking to add a transfer and I think they will. So Jeremiah Smith, Brandon Ennis, Devin McEwen transferred to be named perhaps Kyle Parker from LSU who Cortez Hankton recruited there and coached there. And then you have Chris Henry Jr. And then I think there could be room for like another young guy, whether it's Quaden Guilford as a freshman or maybe it's Philip Bell as a, as a second year guy to, to pop two. So I'm, I, I think you might see five or six play. Like I, maybe it's wishful thinking. I think Ohio State could, could stand to rotate a little bit, get some different body types and skill sets on the field from time to time. But we don't know, we don't know what sort of a Cortez Hankton's philosophy is either. That kind of wasn't Brian Hartline's philosophy. So I'm, I'm just kind of guessing that maybe it'll be a little different. So maybe five or six guys play obviously like Jeremiah is the man and he's going to get the most targets of anybody. But I think behind him you could see maybe, maybe four or five guys mix in.
- [22:30]
Doug Lam Reese
So I mean they're just rotation can be fun theoretically. But it's like what you're not taking Carnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith off the field. Right.
- [22:38]
Bill Landis
And right.
- [22:38]
Doug Lam Reese
And before you're not taking Marvin Harrison Jr. And A. Mecca Buka off the field and you like just like they had too many guys that you wouldn't have taken off the field. I think they only have at the moment there's only one don't take him off the field guy in this group because I don't even think Brandon is rises to the level of like you can't take that guy off the field. So now if you only have one, can't take him off the field. Now you could have four guys rotate through the other two spots and it would be fine. But the level where that room was, it would have been insane to rotate and they haven't.
- [23:07]
Bill Landis
I'm trying to. I guess they haven't really rotated a bunch since like 2018. Right. But like, that room was kind of like balanced. Right? Like, it wasn't. There wasn't a star among the rest of the room. Like Paris Campbell and KJ Hill were good. It's like Johnny Dixon, Terry McLaren, Austin Mac, Ben Victor are like all.
- [23:29]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah.
- [23:30]
Bill Landis
At least at that time. I know Terry. Terry since then has become something different. But like, at that time, it's like.
- [23:35]
Doug Lam Reese
Right at the end, Chris Olave, emergency ends.
- [23:38]
Bill Landis
It's like, I think it made sense for that. But then the rotation, like kind of died there because then it was just like you had Kristen Garrett and then you had Marvin Ameca.
- [23:47]
Doug Lam Reese
Did they rotate a little bit at 19, though? Like, was Garrett Wilson. Garrett Wilson?
- [23:50]
Bill Landis
Yeah, they rotated. They rotated it x. They rotated it X. A little bit with Ben Victor and a freshman, Garrett Wilson.
- [23:58]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah.
- [24:00]
Bill Landis
That year Ben Victor had 51 targets and Garrett Wilson had 42 targets and Austin Max will put a decent amount.
- [24:06]
Doug Lam Reese
So, I mean, if you have a world where JJ doesn't come off the field and then Ennis McEwen and potentially another guy are three guys who have played, and then maybe you have a young guy or two who hasn't played, who deserves to play, then I think you're in a different spot. But as we think about development, as we think about keeping young guys on the hook, I think what Brian Hartline did in the past of you just have young five star receivers who are willing to come in and play like zero because they know they're blocked by first round picks is just a harder reality. Both, I think, with the structure of the sport and with Heartline's special talent for that no longer being here. So it's a step down. I mean, like, this is like Carnell Tate's gonna be a top 10 pick in the NFL draft. And so now Jeremiah Smith and then some, like, certainly with Guilford and Henry, like, absolute opportunity, like absolute talent among true freshmen. But also like people like Philip Bell as a second year guy. But it's one of those things. It's like rotation becomes more possible in the absence of elite skill. So that's why we're talking about rotation.
- [25:21]
Bill Landis
Yeah, but it doesn't. I don't. We're talking like top of the, top of the line, elite, elite skill.
- [25:27]
Doug Lam Reese
Right. I. I do think, like first round draft pick.
- [25:29]
Bill Landis
Yeah, yeah. They're still. I think some of these guys could be like, beyond serviceable.
- [25:36]
Doug Lam Reese
Yes.
- [25:37]
Bill Landis
I don't know. I don't, but I don't know what to make, especially if they end up at. And like we're having this conversation. They have not yet added Kyle Parker from lsu, but like, say they do add him. You're kind of adding a third slot guy with him. Him and McEwen and Brandon Innis. And like, I wonder, I wonder how exactly that might work. Or maybe like, because McEwen for me, like profiles more of a slack guy in Ohio State's offense, but like, he didn't really play in the slot at UTSA. He played like 75 of his snaps on the outside. But he's also 6 foot and like kind of like twitchy more than he is fast. Like, he's not, he's not Nowhere near a 1 for 1 replacement for Carnell Tate at the, at the Z receiver position. So I don't know what they're. And neither is Kyle Parker. So I, like, I don't, I don't know what they're going to do at that spot or if they're gonna, Are we back like in the double slot receiver world? Like, I don't know. Can Chris Henry Jr. Play the Z, Dracoid and Guilford as a young guy? I, I don't know there I, I thought maybe they would go out and add a bigger bodied guy to try to replace some of what Carnell Tate gave you and they have not done that. It doesn't appear like they're going to do that unless you just consider that bigger body guy is Chris Henry. Yeah.
- [26:47]
Doug Lam Reese
And then this is all those, like, you can rotate until somebody's like, no, I'm not, you're not rotating me. Yeah, this job and I'm not coming off the field and they certainly have guys who are capable of doing that. But like a little bit of like a step back again. Like, I, I, I, you can't. I, Jeremiah Smith and Carnell Tater. Everybody was saying all years, like, this is like the best Ohio State receiver pair you've ever seen. So, like, it's gonna be, it's not gonna be that good. It's gonna be a step back from that. I mean, it just, just, I think.
- [27:11]
Bill Landis
Yeah, if you're doing plus, minus, neutral for like each position, this is a mine. This is minus. It's worse.
- [27:17]
Doug Lam Reese
Oh, all right. You want to do that offensive line. Plus.
- [27:20]
Bill Landis
I would say plus, because I just think like having that many guys back who have played together, you stand a pretty good chance of improving even.
- [27:28]
Doug Lam Reese
I don't think that's blown smoke. I don't think it's just like they're just old. I think like they're pretty good and I think they can get better as they are. Old tight end I would say is a minus.
- [27:41]
Bill Landis
Yeah. I think it's fair. Yeah.
- [27:42]
Doug Lam Reese
Minus running back plus just because Jackson and West will be older.
- [27:48]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [27:50]
Doug Lam Reese
Receiver minus.
- [27:51]
Bill Landis
Yep.
- [27:53]
Doug Lam Reese
Quarterback position Justin Martin in Lincoln Keenholtz out signed with Louisville. Good luck to Lincoln Keenholtz. Hope he wins that job. Hope he balls out with Jeff Braum and puts himself in position to be an NFL draft pick and and Jeff Brahm is certainly produced quarterbacks and if he can get Aiden o' Connell and Tyler Shuck to the NFL I'm. I don't know why I couldn't get Lincoln Kenos to the NFL. No offense to those guys.
- [28:16]
Bill Landis
No, that's exactly what I thought when he went there. When he went. There's like some of the guys that Jeff Rob's got into the league. Lincoln's got some more tools than those guys do.
- [28:24]
Doug Lam Reese
They're starting isn't. O' Connell and Tyler Shuck have both started in the end like oh, I didn't.
- [28:30]
Bill Landis
Not to go off on a tangent. Do you know? I don't know. I don't know if this is their opener. It must be their opener. Louisville opens with Ole Miss.
- [28:40]
Doug Lam Reese
Oh, where is it?
- [28:43]
Bill Landis
It's in Nashville. Oh, neutral. Neutral set maybe.
- [28:47]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah. Justin Martin in formerly of UCLA in Maryland has not really played a lot bigger body but old guy in the room seems like a decent idea and whether that makes him QB2, QB3. I think you and I had been talking about it on another show or just in talking he might be like QB two and a half depending how that would go. Right. What do you think that means?
- [29:12]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I like if. If they had to go to their quarterback depth like in a game maybe you turn to the guy who's more experienced would be Justin Martin. And if you're making a long term change the upside of of Tavi and Sinclair Martin has will be in his fourth year of college football this fall. Right. Or fourth or fifth. Fifth.
- [29:32]
Doug Lam Reese
I guess they're just, they're just getting old. There is a let's get old by necessity or by choice. Some of these things are like I don't know but he's old but he's.
- [29:42]
Bill Landis
Only played 84 snaps so. Right. Like he's. He is old and not experienced so at least not. Not game experience. He's made one career start. I think it's an interesting ad especially given his size and I Think he'll. He'll have an extra year of eligibility beyond this one because he missed basically all of last season at Maryland with an injury. He played the first game, got hurt and didn't play again. Actually didn't throw a pass last year. So it's more. It's got more substance, I think, to it than the Tristan Jebbia, Gunner Hoke kind of additions. You know, those guys actually were more experienced than Martin. Just talking about, like, upside, but, yeah, I think veteran. Veteran backup now and perhaps some insurance going into 2027 in case it turns out that Tavian Sinclair is not ready.
- [30:33]
Doug Lam Reese
Who's the most famous? Justin.
- [30:34]
Bill Landis
Surprised by.
- [30:35]
Doug Lam Reese
Who's Justin Bieber? Still.
- [30:39]
Bill Landis
Justin Bieber. Justin Timberlake. Justin Trudeau.
- [30:44]
Doug Lam Reese
Oh, Justin Trudeau. Yeah, Justin. Yeah. What's Justin Timberlake's most famous song? I Got My Suit Got My Suit On. What's that called? I Got My Suit On.
- [30:54]
Bill Landis
I think it's sexy back.
- [30:56]
Doug Lam Reese
Oh. Oh, yeah. I'm just trying to think of. Because we're replacing the presidential package, and if Justin Martin is big, the sexy back package. Ryan, do you think you could use the sexy back package and short yardage, put in a bigger quarterback. Oh, thank you for. I knew we'd get there. I was gonna go with the baby, baby, baby O package, but sexy back package is better.
- [31:13]
Bill Landis
I don't know. There's not really much rushing production to speak of again, because 84 snaps, but, yeah, maybe they can use them as a little bit of a battering ram. He's like 6, 3. No, he's like 6, 5, 2, 30. I think.
- [31:26]
Doug Lam Reese
I think I'm gonna go with the bring in sexy package. Is the. Just when you put him in the game, bringing sexy. Okay. The kicker is Connor Hawkins, who, poof, magically arrived from Baylor and just decided he's going to Ohio State very, very quickly.
- [31:42]
Bill Landis
Yeah, just the. Sure. Himself. Young man who knew where he was going. Yeah.
- [31:50]
Doug Lam Reese
Some kid from Texas who had never been to Ohio in his life and was like, I need C bus. I need a little C bus. So he has made a 50 yarder in his life, which puts him ahead of the game at Ohio State.
- [32:06]
Bill Landis
Yeah. Two game winners last year at Baylor. I do, like, I really hope it works out for him because, like, I have never seen people get that excited about a kicker before in my life. I think the tweet announcing his transfer has, like, a million impressions from Hayes.
- [32:23]
Doug Lam Reese
Oh, really?
- [32:24]
Bill Landis
People are so desperate and, like, whatever they just. Jaden feeling was out of eligibility, and Ohio State desperately needed a New Kicker we have talked about the volatility of college kickers so who knows. But this guy has made three 50 yard kicks and has made two game winning kicks which is more than you can say for Jaden Fielding. I guess.
- [32:48]
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- [33:42]
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- [34:14]
Doug Lam Reese
I will warn people the last time I have been around people who are this excited about a kicker is when I was still doing Brown stuff and the Browns kicking situation was a mess and I remember I interviewed Kate York at the combine and I was like will you come save Cleveland Sports? And he was like yes, yes I will. And then the Browns drafted him super high and then he made a game winning kick on the last play of the game in his first game as a Brown and then like fell off a cliff and that was it. And so it was.
- [34:46]
Bill Landis
He's not even in the league anymore, right.
- [34:48]
Doug Lam Reese
I think he's listed as a New Orleans kicker but like it got, it got south fast. So oh he is in the league.
- [34:56]
Bill Landis
Yeah, he made a 60. Oh no, that was last year.
- [35:01]
Doug Lam Reese
He made a 58 yard field goal on the last play of the game to win the opener. 2624 in 2022 and it was like he is going to be in the Browns hall of Fame. And then like he didn't make a kick the rest of his Browns career. So also from Tex, here's the thing about this that I think is like this is the, this is the point People, I think. People I think justifiably were upset at, like, second year Jaden Fielding because in year one when he missed two field goals against Michigan, it was like, oh, I don't know if this is a guy that can be trusted in big game situations. And then they just brought him back, brought in competition, kept him as the starting kicker, and then he missed field goals in their two losses, their two biggest games of the year. And so it was like you sort of felt like you had proof that this guy didn't make big kicks, and then you did it again. So Connor Hawkins, like, comes in fresh, and I don't think you can. Like, I don't think people in the. In the 2024 season, people weren't like, oh, Jaden Fielding, I don't know about this. Like, it was fine. He's the kicker. He made most of his kicks. It's all good. He didn't have a huge leg, but it was fine. And then he missed two field goals in a Michigan game where Ohio state lost by three. And it was 2:30 in the 30s. And it was like, okay, now this is a problem. And then the second year of that was the actual problem. So clean slate for Connor Hawkins. He has more on his resume than an Ohio State kicker. Ohio State's been kind of weird with the kickers they've gotten over the years. They've pulled like, a lot of, like, I guess we'll try this guy. Like, this is like a proven guy who's made game winners and has kicked 50 yarders. I think his in resume is as good as we've seen for an Ohio State kicker in a long time. So then nobody's perfect. And so I think it is. I think it is the process that frustrated Ohio State fans the most with kicking and the process here, boom. Baylor kicker. Ta da. Whatever. That was the process seems correct. And so now good luck making your kicks. To all involved.
- [37:13]
Bill Landis
Yeah. Honorable mention all big 12 guy last year, and he's a red shirt. Was a redshirt freshman last year, so he's got three years of eligibility left too, which is nice.
- [37:21]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah. Ta da. Went from like, I don't know. I was like, going through. It's like, I don't. There are not a ton of guys left in the portal right now. There's like two options for Ohio. Ta da. Baylor kicker.
- [37:34]
Bill Landis
There he is. How about it?
- [37:36]
Doug Lam Reese
My sleeve. What do you got? I can't wait till we talk to Connor Hawkins about, like, how did this all go down? And he'll be like, you know, I just. One day I woke up and I just for no reason at all decided I wanted to go to Ohio State. And we'll be like, wow, wow. Let us run to our computers and write that. I can't wait for the headlines on that. What? Ta da. I mean, what are we doing here? Like, all bets are right? Well, I don't know. I have no idea. But like one day a guy's on one team, four hours later is in the portal, four hours later he's on a new team. Ta da. Great. That's just college football these days. That's, that's only happening everywhere, right? So that's what this is. They might as well like.
- [38:23]
Bill Landis
Yeah, that's what it is, man.
- [38:26]
Doug Lam Reese
Ta da. Defense, defensive tackles. We'll start there. You wanted to break up defensive line and defensive tackle because you're very specific football ball knower.
- [38:36]
Bill Landis
It's just easier to keep track of all the guys.
- [38:39]
Doug Lam Reese
Like 30. Yeah, they had 13 defensive tackles or something at one point. John Walker from Central Florida and James Smith from Alabama. In, out. Jarquez Carter signed with Miami. Max Roy signed with ucla. Eric Mensa signed with Virginia Tech. Trajan Odom, I don't think it's signed with anybody yet because he's, he's a pretty recent portal guy, I think.
- [38:59]
Bill Landis
That's right.
- [39:00]
Doug Lam Reese
And then like, if anybody thought that they were gonna prevent Kaden McDonald from going to the draft to be like the 16th pick in the NFL draft, good luck with that. That was not gonna happen. Yeah, this is a lot of like, as you noted, all their first year defensive tackles are gone because their defensive tackle class last year was Odom, Roy and Carter, and they're all gone. And there's a little part of that that's weird because Kaden McDonald, once upon a time was Jarquez Carter, Max Roy, or Trajan Odom. He wasn't a five star recruit and then he came in and balled out and in three years turned himself from like a solid recruit into a first round draft pick. And now these three guys. I don't know, this is how this whole thing works. Maybe could have done that and instead they're out the door, but they have a decent amount of certainty in return here. Bill, what do you think of this trade off?
- [39:55]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I, I would have really liked to see Jarquez Carter stay. I, I think he had a lot of upside and I guess like part of it was they wanted to be a little different body type wise at defensive tackle and Carter is undersized, like even I think even more undersized than Katie McDonald. So. And like, Smith is slightly bigger and John Walker is definitely bigger. John Walker's like 6, 4, 3, 25 and James Smith is 6, 3, 300 ish. So, like, they're bigger dudes, are older guys. They've played a lot more, they've been productive. So, like, I, I get it. This is like the, the kind of trade off. We've been having a lot of conversations about the young potential versus more veteran production. And it seems like they're definitely going in the direction of the veteran production on the D lines because they brought in two guys in Smith and Walker, who are going to be counted on to play a lot with Edric Houston and Will Smith, and we'll see how else that materializes. So I don't know, I like, I think I like the Walker edition more than like, James Smith is like a weird evaluation to me because he's got the recruiting pedigree, but he's like, not lived up to it. So, yeah, Ohio State, I think, has to coach some bad habits out of him to make that a worthwhile trade.
- [41:14]
Doug Lam Reese
We'll call the quarterback room neutral, Keen Holtz out, Justin Martin in. That's fair. And let's, let's give it a plus for the kicker. Plus for the kicker. You just have to be realistic here because again, this is one of those, you know, for Ohio State was losing. There are people like Kentucky who are like, we got Tegra Shibola and nobody. Ohio State is like, oh, no, we lost Tiger Shabola. I don't know that. Alabama's like, oh, no, we lost James Smith. I think they're probably fine with it. It doesn't mean that James Smith can't be good. Can't be good. But just please, like, you have to be realistic here. But what matters the most is the realistic way the entire roster fits together. If this is a four man tackle rotation through two spots of Edric Houston, Will Smith as guys who were back, and then John Walker and James Smith as guys who were in Good Enough.
- [42:09]
Bill Landis
It's like Ocean's Eleven. I kind of feel like they need one more. Yeah, they need a grease man. I don't know. It just depends, like, you know, if, if Edric Houston is ready to like, really make that jump, then I feel a lot better about this. But I thought maybe he was gonna make that jump last year and he kind of didn't. Or it was just like really slow going and maybe he kind of like ran out of time. So I don't Know, I, I think another guy maybe you factor in here is Kari Wilder, the freshman who's I think could play end or three Tech.
- [42:45]
Doug Lam Reese
So.
- [42:45]
Bill Landis
So maybe and if you go back because I think he's gonna be really good. Everyone does. I'm not alone in that opinion. So maybe that's a guy who you should consider in this conversation to maybe bolster this a little bit because I think it's. So it's going to be Houston and Smith at 3 tech and Smith and Walker at 1 tech would be my. My guess.
- [43:04]
Doug Lam Reese
Will Smith and Walker at more of.
- [43:07]
Bill Landis
Sorry knows.
- [43:09]
Doug Lam Reese
Right. And Houston is more of like the defensive tackle who can maybe pass rush a little bit and that kind of thing.
- [43:14]
Bill Landis
Yes, yes. Thank you. I forgot about the double Smiths. Yeah. Yeah. But also they move guys around so maybe that's less, less important. I guess I would like. I wouldn't. I wouldn't mind a, a touch more certainty here but I guess that's a big ask when Katie McDonald's going out the door and he's really difficult to replace.
- [43:37]
Doug Lam Reese
And Taiwan alone who split time with Edward Houston at the other tackle spot is also out of eligibility. I mean you would like to see a little more production. They have added the like that you want more certainty. They added certainty but and, and they traded like potential for a degree of certainty. John Walker is some pretty good certainty. Right. That's 100 national recruit who played as a true freshman at Central Florida was like a. Made some all freshman teams was hurt in year two and then started every game last year. So he's. This will be his fourth year in college but he has two years of eligibility and he's been a starter in the Big 12 and a good solid player. That's. That's more certain than any. Like let's. If they had kept everybody and didn't bring in anybody, what do we think the defensive tackle rotation would have been in 2026? Edric Houston, will Smith and who Jason.
- [44:33]
Bill Landis
Moore and I don't know.
- [44:37]
Doug Lam Reese
Okay.
- [44:38]
Bill Landis
Like maybe I guess you like Carter. I guess if you would have kept Carter.
- [44:42]
Doug Lam Reese
But. Right.
- [44:44]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [44:44]
Doug Lam Reese
So they were just in a little bit of a spot here and I do think there's some of this here again that for all the ins and the outs and not. Not guaranteeing but anticipating and perhaps relying on Edric Houston jump I think is not a bad way to do business and is perhaps these days the way you have to do business and like oh, who's going to really. It's like the guy that was a five Star recruit is going to be a third year guy who was a co starter in year two. Like Edric Houston has to be a force at defensive tackle and we're giving him some veteran guys. He's going to be lined up next to a veteran guy more often than not he's going to be backed up by a veteran guy to help, you know, make sure we don't put too many snaps on him. We are going to do everything we can to put Edric Houston in the best possible position to be an all Big Ten type of player. And that's all we can do and, and, and believe that this is a guy that is worth investing in, that is worth whatever, doing whatever it takes to make sure he didn't go in the portal, that it was a good recruiting win, it was a big time recruiting win when they got him. And if you maybe thought there would be a jump last year and it's like, well it was okay last year but now the jump is coming this year. Okay, this is how it has to work these days.
- [46:05]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think that, I think that's probably right. And like the, the pedigree of the room is actually like not bad. It's actually quite good. Houston, former five star Smith, former five star Walker, former top 100 guy. Jason Moore was a top 100 guy. He's just like, he's like been hurt and like not broken through. He's gonna be a fourth year guy this year. Maybe there's, maybe there's something there still they can tap into. Like it took, it took Taiwan Malone that long to become a, to become a, a an important player on Ohio State's defense. But then he did and then especially if you're including Kyrie Wilder, like Kyrie Wilder is a borderline five star guy. Some people had him as, as a, as a five star and like one of the better defensive linemen in the class. So it's not like they're short on talent. I think the, the, the biggest hold up for me is, is with Smith because he's sort of like a combination of production and projection because he's like not been terrible. I don't want people to think that but like he was like a top five, I think defensive lineman in the 2023 recruiting class and he's not played up to that like really at all. So, but, but I guess if like if you're Ohio State, you think, well to this point he's been pretty good. We know he's got this underlying talent that made him what he was coming out of high school, even though we're going to be four years removed from that now, how much more can we get out of him? And you know, it's not the worst thing in the world. I guess the bank on Larry Johnson doing that with a talent player. So I think it's, I do think it's a, like the ceiling perhaps is decently high or like high enough. I just think that the floor might be a little lower too than it was last year.
- [47:40]
Doug Lam Reese
So when you're a team like Ohio State, you can't bring in a transfer like James Smith and count on him to be every snap starter at a high level because now you're just, you're just asking for something that there's no proof of that other than an old recruiting ranking. But to bring in a, a guy who's gonna be in his fourth year, who once upon a time was a five star and ask him to be your fourth best defensive tackle, I think that's okay.
- [48:05]
Bill Landis
Yeah, probably.
- [48:06]
Doug Lam Reese
I think that's reasonable. And so, and again, this is on all of us to just make sure we have reasonable expectations because you can't look and be like, oh, they got a Bama five star. Because again, like there's plenty of Ohio State guys going out. There's, there's like a decent amount of this that is just like swapping chairs on the, on the, on the question mark boat. And, and I don't. So like we traded our question mark for, to that team and they traded and now we wound up with a question mark. But you can't, you can't go too far. Kaden McDonald was so good this year. Do we have to assume this is a, this is a minus at the moment? When you lose Kaden McDonald, you're not exactly sure how you're going to replace that. He's so good.
- [48:45]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think so. Yeah.
- [48:47]
Doug Lam Reese
What a fine fellow. Edge. Getting Kenyatta Jackson back, which was officially announced on Thursday morning, was a very big deal. It's one of those things like, well, I kind of thought he was going to come back, but like that, that changes again. If, if that would not have happened, it would have changed the calculus at defensive end. Right? If Kenyatta Jackson gone to the NFL, absolutely.
- [49:08]
Bill Landis
They would have had to without question go out and get another defensive end.
- [49:15]
Modelo Announcer
Some things in life are just made for each other. Peanut butter and jelly, Macaroni and cheese. Modelo and college football. College football season is Modelo season and the season has officially kicked off. The Modelo recruiter is back in action, looking to reward full time fans who give their all for their team and their school week in and week out. If you're listening to this, you've been recruited. So lace em up and get out there and don't forget to make time for a well deserved ice cold reward because college football wouldn't be the same without you. So grab yourself a Modelo and enjoy the official beer. Sponsor of the College Football Playoff Modelo.
- [50:09]
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The new year brings new health goals and wealth goals. Protecting your identity is an important step. Your info is in endless places that could expose you to identity theft leading to lost funds. LifeLock monitors millions of data points per second. If your identity is stolen, our restoration specialists will fix it, guaranteed or your money back. Resolve to make identity, health and wealth part of your New Year's goals with Lifelock, save up to 40% percent your first year. Visit lifelock.com special offer terms apply.
- [50:42]
Doug Lam Reese
So then otherwise four out CJ Hicks to south Florida Logan George to Washington right?
- [50:49]
Bill Landis
Yes. Yep.
- [50:51]
Doug Lam Reese
Dom Kirk's not signed yet. Joshua Mickens not signed yet. Quay Raw from Alabama also in just like James Smith. But who what's the edge rotation in your mind at this point? If you had to guess who plays who plays meaningful snaps at defensive end for Ohio State in 2026 because also Kaden Curry out of eligibility.
- [51:16]
Bill Landis
Jackson Kenyatta. Jackson Zion Greedy would be my projected starters right now. Quay Russo and Bo Atkinson playing behind them.
- [51:25]
Doug Lam Reese
Okay. Which is not an unreasonable expectation. Zion Grady played some as a true freshman this year, right. Second year guy, big time recruit to to ask him to step up to a starting role. This is again the whole point of like if you're going to keep guys like your guys who are playing early, that's not unreasonable. And then Quay offers you a little bit of insurance. They're not a sure thing but has played kind of lost his starting job at Alabama this year, started the year as a starter, got hurt. Somebody else played well while he was out and like his role was reduced when he came back. So it's not just like oh man, this guy didn't get it done. But again you wouldn't. If you're Ohio State, you don't want to bring that guy in as like okay, you better start. Which is so that's not what they're doing. But they're expecting him to play and I think that's okay and they don't really have to go more than three deep at edge like Bo Atkinson. His role really reduced over the course of this season. He still wound up, you know like, whatever. It was 14th on the defense and snaps or whatever. But really like kind of it was Kenyatta, Jackson and, and Kaden Curry really pretty much doing it most of the year. So I don't.
- [52:39]
Bill Landis
And I think, like, I don't. Is maybe it's just that Atkinson was like kind of a total whiff. But I don't like, is there, is there something there still that they weren't able to get out of him in his first year that maybe they can get out of him in his second year? And because he was pretty productive at unc, it just did not translate at all to O State.
- [52:55]
Doug Lam Reese
I would not anticipate it, but I think they're okay if it doesn't happen. And that's the one thing, like you said, Wilder might be an Edge, might be A3 tech. So if it's like if Jackson, Grady and Rousseau are your top three and then if you need a fourth, I guess it could be Atkinson. Maybe it's a true freshman. Like, is that good enough?
- [53:16]
Bill Landis
I think it's probably a little short of where it should be. There's also, as we're having this conversation, the Dasseer twins from Florida State are in the portal. Daryl to Seer, who's an Edge, and Mandrell to see who's a tackle. Their twin brothers were freshmen at Florida State last year. Ohio State will be in that mix. I'd like their prospects of actually getting them, I don't know, but they'll, you know, they'll inquire, I guess, if they did that. Then I think you feel, you feel pretty good about this because that's another, like, young, pretty high end pass rusher, I think, to put, to put in this mix. I just don't, I don't know. I don't know what to expect of Russo. I think Russo is a more interesting addition to me than James Smith because there's, I think Russo is like a little more kind of like treatsy and has not quite unlocked all of that yet. But like, you, you definitely see it in spurts sometimes. And I thought when I saw that Ohio State was like, maybe going to get both those guys. I watched the Rose bowl this year against Indiana, right, And I was not impressed with either one of them. I reached out to somebody who like, knows Alabama more than me and said, like, what's up with these guys? Because I'm not seeing it. He said, like, well, watch for Smith, like, watch the South Carolina game. And I did. And I thought he was better. So, like, I get that. And then With Russo, he had a foot injury that caused him to miss some time. But I think if you watch him before the foot injury and after the foot injury, he looks pretty fast. Before the foot injury, like the okay against it. Wisconsin, they played Wisconsin early in the year and like, he was flying around a little bit. So I think, you know, obviously the hope is that he's healthy. I think he gives you some of the. He's not our Val Reese. We'll make sure I'm getting that across. He's not Arval Reese, but I think he does have some, like, on ball, off, off ball versatility in the same way that Arval Reese did that. Like, you can move him around some. So I don't know, he's at the very least interesting. But there's definitely, there's definitely upside there that Ohio State's going to hope to tap into. And then, like, I think Jackson's good and I think Grady's good or will be good. You just don't have that, like, guy who's just like pure pass rush stuff.
- [55:17]
Doug Lam Reese
Right.
- [55:17]
Bill Landis
And they haven't had that for a while, I guess, but I was hoping maybe they might add that this off season and they kind of didn't.
- [55:27]
Doug Lam Reese
So probably a minus with losing Kaden Curry. Right. Or you think it could be.
- [55:36]
Bill Landis
Curry was really good, but I don't know. I like Grady. I think Grady can be like a suitable replacement for Curry.
- [55:42]
Doug Lam Reese
I think so. I think to like have the defensive tackle and defensive ends be minuses right now, but also because they're losing two. Excellent. They're losing two all Americans, Kate McDonald's tackle and Kaden Curry defensive end. And so it's like, okay, well, I don't see any sure thing all Americans here, but could Edric Houston be that. Yeah, a tackle. Could Zion Grady make a leap like that? At edge? Yeah. That's, again, that's how this whole thing works. So I don't think it's offensive to call them minuses in January, but I also. It's not like there's. You wouldn't look at it and see, like. I don't. I don't think there's, like. I don't see it.
- [56:17]
Bill Landis
Yeah, it's like.
- [56:18]
Doug Lam Reese
Well, you can see it. You just don't know it yet. And I do think the thing that I like about this is you're counting on Houston and Grady in a big way. But if for some reason it doesn't pop all the way, you do have some options behind them that you've added in the portal. You have some experience. Because otherwise, if you don't add those experienced options in the portal, now you're relying on other young guys or other guys who have never done it. And it's like, okay, like, it's not quite popping for Zion Grady. What else do we got? It's like Dom Kirk since, like, well, he's never done it either. So now it's like, all right, well, Craig Wusoff, his foot's good. Like, okay, then we'll just play him a ton. And, and I said, I said this on one of our substack shows, but I'll say it here now that we're on YouTube and on the podcast fees. And by the way, Bill and Doug osu.substack.com we'd invite you to go over there and check it out. We do two, most of the time, two shows a week over there just for the substack subscribers. We're writing, we're in the chat over there. There's a lot of stuff coming up. But like the, the point that I made was I don't think in situations like this, when you're not getting Will Howard, when you're not cutting Quinton, Sean Judkins, when you're not getting Caleb Downs, when you're not getting that kind of portal thing, you're not bringing in portal guys to be your best players. You're bringing portal guys to raise the floor so your developmental big time recruits have a chance to reach their potential. So Quay, we're saw and John Walker and James Smith are here in part to provide backup, but also fortify around Edric Houston and Zion Grady to allow them to try to be all Big Ten players, which they have the talent to do, they just haven't done it yet. And so like that, that's what this is about. And then to have Kenyatta Jackson back, like Kenyatta Jackson design great. It could be a really good defensive end pairing. Could be really good.
- [57:57]
Bill Landis
Yeah, yeah, they could, they could. I think they're like similar styles maybe, but that's, that's fine. Just, you just want good, reliable players there. And I think, I think with those two, they'll have that. And, and to your point, like, I would trade all three of Logan George, Dom Kirks and Josh Mickens for the wild card. That is quite Russo. So, yes.
- [58:22]
Doug Lam Reese
And there's nothing there that they lost that you would have been able to count on this year.
- [58:26]
Bill Landis
Defensive end.
- [58:26]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah, yeah, like, good luck to CJ Hicks in South Florida. But like, if anybody was fooling themselves like that Red shirt was about something magically popping at Ohio State in 2026. It's like, save that eligibility so he has a chance to go somewhere else and have an opportunity. But it was never going to happen here. We'll call it a minus for now. Linebacker Christian Allegro in from Wisconsin. Ty Howard, who transferred in last year, is out. Not really any losses in the Portal. Orville Reese and Sunny Styles to the NFL. Gigantic losses. You're looking probably at Riley Pettajohn, Peyton Pierce and Christian Allegro as your top three linebackers in some form. Yes. How do you. How do you think that works out? So you know Peyton Pierce was the third linebacker this year with Reese and Styles and played more than 300 snaps. Had like a real role on the defense. Had a role. Every single game was on the field. And so I would imagine those three guys will see on the field every single game. Do you have a guess on who we see more?
- [59:25]
Bill Landis
I think you sleep like Pierce is the mic. So I just think like, Pierce is kind of alone there. And then you have Petta John and Allegro kind of playing the. The will together. I guess it would be. And then when Ohio State goes to the we're putting a linebacker on the line of scrimmage move, like, I think Allegro can do some of that. Allegro didn't have a lot of pass rush reps at Wisconsin, but when he did, like, the numbers were pretty good. So. But also I was listening to like a Wisconsin podcast and like, part of the reason he kind of wanted to leave Wisconsin is because, like, he still wants to play like off ball linebacker. So. But I think like, Petta John can give you maybe some stuff on the line of scrimmage too, and perhaps even T.J. alford, like maybe the fourth guy in that mix. So I think I would better tidy some on Peyton Pierce playing the most linebacker snaps next year. And then I don't know if it'll be pure rotation between Allegro and Petty John or maybe it starts that way and. And they'll see who kind of earns the right to play more or the most if it works out that way. And I think between like, you're almost like trying to recreate Arvell Reese in the aggregate a little bit with Petta John Allegro and Quay Russo. And maybe with those three, you can muster similar production that you have walking out the door.
- [60:52]
Doug Lam Reese
Prepare yourself to miss Sonny Styles.
- [60:55]
Bill Landis
Incredible. Just like. And everyone's going gaga over him now that he's declared for the draft, even though he didn't have to because he was out of eligibility. But yeah, people love that guy. He was, he was excellent this year and he was very, very hard to replace.
- [61:10]
Doug Lam Reese
It's like Peyton Pierce isn't going to be as good as Sonny Styles. And that's not about Peyton Pierce is about how good Sonny Styles is. That's a, it's a minus. I mean, like, you lose, I think you could, you could have two five star third year, five star guys ready to go. And you call it a minus in January when you lose that much talented linebacker, safety. Just explain this a little bit. What we're talking about with the nickel we were talking about before the show. It's mostly semantics, but we don't want to lead people down a road of thinking that like the defense has changed.
- [61:40]
Bill Landis
No, I don't think the defense has changed. It's just like, you know, it's, it's a eye of the beholder, I guess. Do you consider Ohio State's slot defensive back a cornerback or a safety? And the answer more often than it's like, well, he's kind of both. And it just sort of depends on the body type. Like I think you could say if you want to go all the way Back to Tanner McAllister or frankly even like Sean Wade. Like Sean Wade probably more of a corner. Tanner McAllister more of a safety. Jordan Hancock maybe a little bit more of a corner. Lorenzo Styles maybe a little bit more of a corner. But like all those guys, Sean Wade excluded a different defense, but they're all asked to play like deep safety a lot. And actually they're not asked to cover slot receivers man to man all that much. Not as much as like a true, like nickelback you like would be. Would we assume of that position.
- [62:34]
Doug Lam Reese
So.
- [62:37]
Bill Landis
I, I think it's better to just like call it, call it the nickel and almost like consider it its own thing. Maybe don't even worry so much about whether or not is this guy a safety or is this guy a corner, because the answer is like, yes. So I don't. And that's like, so like Earl Little Jr. Coming in from Florida State. Like I would consider him a safety type who's going to play the nickel position. But he has, I think like in high school he might have been considered a cornerback, but he played safety at Alabama and Florida State.
- [63:05]
Doug Lam Reese
So we'll call Earl Little, Earl Little Jr. From Florida State and Terry Moore from Duke. Two safeties in Fahim Delane. Top 100 recruit, was only here a year as a loss in the portal. Out Malik Hartford, out Keenan Nelson out, this is little and more going to start. And like, you know, if you would have projected stuff in the off season, you probably would have projected Delane. Like, this is a pretty clear example of getting older here. So as you think about this, Jayla McLean is going to be a starting safety, Terry Moore is going to be a starting safety, and Earlittle Jr. Is going to be a starting nickel. And that's two new guys, but who have played a pretty good amount of snaps when if they had done nothing, you just would have been talking about, see him, Delane, as a starter again, we would have probably projected more cornerback types in that nickel slot. Whether it was Aaron Scott trying that, whether Jermaine Matthews sliding aside, whether it was Bryce West. So you go from a situation where you might have had next to Jaylen McLean at a true deep safety spot, somebody who's never really played, and in the nickel spot, somebody who's never really played, and instead you have starters from other schools who are coming in to do that. It is much older, much older, much.
- [64:24]
Bill Landis
More experienced, I think, taking some swings. Right. Because they are. They are gonna ask Earl Little Jr. To do something like, he's not really done all that much in his career to this point. He has been more of a. Of a deep safety type. And then with Terry Moore, you're just hoping he was the guy he was in 2024 because he was awesome that year. He was one of the best safeties in America in 2024. Then he tore his ACL and didn't play at all last year. So at the very least, you are older, you're more experienced. My assumption is you're probably better in 2026. And then you'll have to see, like, what kind of track for him. Delane finds himself on this year, next year, maybe the year after that.
- [65:15]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah. And so better.
- [65:16]
Bill Landis
Better compared to what you could have had. Sorry. Not better than Caleb Downs, but better than right. Started the young guys.
- [65:21]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah. And then they still, you know, they blame Bradford as a true freshman this year. Could. Could maybe get a little bit of a sniff in the mix somewhere and prepare him to start in one of those two spots down the line. So not a ton, like, looking at pff. Or a little. Just like Donna. Not a ton of slot snaps. So it is a. It is asking. It has. It is asking a little something new. But it's. It's got to be like, if you're talking about safety, it's got to be a minus because Caleb Downs left. So again, like, you could. Whoever you brought be a minus from Caleb Downs. But, but I do not think that Jayla McClain, Earl Little, Terry Moore is an unreasonable starting group.
- [66:04]
Bill Landis
No. And if you consider it like a, think of it like a puzzle, do these pieces fit together? I, I think they do. I know that there's some people who like, who are like have an eyebrow raised toward the, your little playing nickel thing which like I, I get because he, he plays like a maniac. He tries to rip everybody's head off and he misses a lot of tackles because of it. So they got to get him playing a little more in control. They're going to have him playing in that role. But he's, he's pretty, he's smart, he's the son of an NFL defensive back. He was a captain of Florida State. He was their defensive mvp. Like I think he's a pretty heady player who, who has versatility. You're just, you're hoping it can be a little cleaner I think there than it was like every, every day or every game at Florida State.
- [66:55]
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- [67:49]
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- [68:20]
Doug Lam Reese
But I probably think that Ohio State needs Jayla McLean to be its best safety and that Terry Moore and Earl Little for what they have been are fortifying the opportunity for Jalen McLean to make a leap.
- [68:32]
Bill Landis
And I think like that that sort of theory on transfers be in your floor razors stabilizers while your in house guys pop. I think that this is probably the best test case to the the safety okay.
- [68:46]
Doug Lam Reese
And then Corner. Jermaine Matthews is gonna stay. Hasn't had like as we record this like the big splashy official announcement, but everybody assumes that he's not going to the NFL, which be would be a big thing. They did lose Davis, who's out of eligibility. They did lose Lorenzo Styles as a nickel who's out of eligibility. And then Aaron Scott and Bryce west in the portal. Those are guys who would have been third year guys in 2026 that given their recruiting pedigree you would have anticipated and where they were on the depth chart in 2025, you would have anticipated them playing. Instead, you're probably looking at Jermaine Matthews and Devin Sanchez as your outside corners. And I will say again, I think it's the main thing I don't think you can do and it's what Austin Saravel did for the offensive line is you anticipate something in the portal and they, they actually put a lot of eggs in the Ethano Neonwa basket. Then the basket had a hole in it. So then Austin Stareveld had to play left tackle.
- [69:42]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [69:43]
Doug Lam Reese
If Earl Little is not a slot, then I think Jermaine Matthews can be your slot. And then you're gonna wind up asking somebody else has a step up and started outside corner. Could it be one of the two incoming freshmen? If they add another corner, which it seems like maybe they're trying to do. Cam Calhoun is the name that's been out there. Former Michigan guy, former Utah guy, former Alabama guy. I actually kind of at Utah I thought he was pretty good. You're trying to give yourself enough options that if plan A doesn't work, do you have a plan B? I think you know, Jermaine Matthews can play the slot. That's not the plan. But if you have to get. That's what they did this year when Lorenzo Styles got hurt. Jermaine Matthews played the slot and Devin Sanchez came in and started it outside corner. So if something would happen to Earl Little, health alien abduction just doesn't fit him. And you slide Jermaine Matthews inside, then do you have enough at outside corner to make up for it? You might end up going to a true freshman again. Someone like Jay Timmons or Jordan Thomas. Right. But given their recruiting pedigree, that might not be a ridiculous thing. So like again, I, I think your puzzle P. I think there's enough puzzle.
- [70:49]
Bill Landis
Yeah. If they add. They need. I think they need to add another one. One, one. They only, they only have six corners and I, I'm trying to remember many, many years ago Ryan Day like, ran through the whole thing and gave us, like, the numbers they wanted. East position group. Now, I'm sure that's very different in the revenue share nil world, but I think at the time that number of corners was eight, and they're too short of. Too short of that now.
- [71:10]
Doug Lam Reese
But it just depends, like, is your slot a corner or nickel? Because I think it's like the shorthand on all of that kind of is like four deep, so. Because if you have. Right. So back in an 85 scholarship world, which I think is. It's not the world we're in anymore, but it's still enough of a guide, right. If you go four deep, that's 88 guys. So it's like not quite four deep at every position. You got to count for a couple special teams guys. It's like three and a half deep. So, yeah, to your point, maybe a little short on bodies.
- [71:40]
Bill Landis
A quarter and then you. I think they need one more again, this. And I think they'll. Whether it's Cam Calhoun or someone else, I think they will try to get it. It took some other swings, but I also thought it was instructive. Like, a lot of the guys they were kind of taking swings on weren't like, slam dunk, this guy's coming here to start. They did feel more like depth slash, rotational slash, insurance plays if they were going to bring those guys in, which I think Cam Calhoun would be, because I think Matthews and Sanchez are starting outside corners. And I don't, you know, just based off what people have said about them as prospects, you know, how they've performed, especially Jordan Thomas, like, on the. The All Star circuit. Like, I. I think it's very possible that one, if. That both of those two incoming freshmen pop and can give you something in. In Year one. So I would just like another kind of like, older guy in the room, I think. But otherwise, I. I think maybe corner is okay.
- [72:44]
Doug Lam Reese
Still a minus, losing Davis.
- [72:48]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think I. I don't think you can assume anyone replacing IGB just yet. I would. I would go minus probably.
- [72:56]
Doug Lam Reese
Okay, so just to be clear, defense, all minuses.
- [73:00]
Bill Landis
How could it not be? Like, I mean, like, Like, I. I know they'll probably hit your ear, like, what the hell's going on? But, like, how could it not be based off all the talent they had on defense last year? Doesn't mean they're gonna be bad on defense, but it just means, like, yeah, there's. There's some pretty big shoes to fill. I mean, and you don't the people to fill them are not always in the transfer portal. Or at least they didn't. The people that would like, be like, absolutely, we nailed it. Like, this guy's gonna be better than we had. Like, I just, like, I don't know that they could have done that even if they brought in some different types of transfers.
- [73:31]
Doug Lam Reese
Right.
- [73:31]
Bill Landis
It just really good.
- [73:33]
Doug Lam Reese
January minuses, I don't think are a panic situation at all. Like, minuses. May minuses are maybe like August Midas is like, oh, my God, we are much worse there. That's a different situation. Defensive tackle lost in all American minus. Edge lost All American minus. Linebacker lost to all Americans minus. Safety lost in All American minus. Corner lost. The guy who Ryan Day said multiple times sort of transformed the cornerback room minus. Yeah, defense is really good in 2025. It was, it was offensive line, the biggest question mark in 2025. Plus tight end, minus running back, plus wide receiver, minus. Because you're losing a first round draft pick. Quarterback probably neutral, then kicker plus. So it's like one. Honestly, it's like the positions that were the biggest problems in 2025 are now pluses.
- [74:32]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [74:32]
Doug Lam Reese
Primarily because they're older and plus they stole a guy from, from Baylor for kicker. And then everything else where you were really good is a minus because you're losing great guys and we just don't know yet. But, but again, even at corner, it's like, okay, but you're just, you're putting stuff on. Devin Sanchez at corner, Jalen McLean at safety, Riley Pettajohn and Peyton Pierce at linebacker, Zion Grady at edge and Edric Houston at defensive tackle. And you're asking them to make the kind of jumps that Kaden McDonald and Arvell Reese and Davis McNoson and Caleb Downs was always good, but like, but that, that Sonny Styles made a leap in 2025. And so this is just how it works. As much as it feels like, oh my gosh, so much has changed. Here we are, it's Ohio State and they are anticipating second and third year players with high recruiting pedigree to step into starting roles and be very, very good. And that is how they will be a good team. That actually sounds like really familiar. Welcome to the last 100 years of Ohio State football.
- [75:33]
Bill Landis
Right. And I think, like, just to be clear, when we're saying plus, minus, neutral, we're saying compared to last year, that does not preclude any of these positions where we're saying minus from being a plus in the sense of like, this is a good position. Group in 2026. Right. Like these, these transfers in. Were additive in an important way and they're, they're as, as good as they need to be at a given position. It's just acknowledging, I think mostly what's walking out the door because boy, were there a lot of all Americans.
- [76:07]
Doug Lam Reese
More than ever. Yeah, most all Americans in Ohio State history. So that's the deal. But again, I just like remind yourself it's not about Christian Allegro is not here to save the defense. Riley Pettigon is going to help determine how good this defense is. Quay was not here to say the defense. Zion Grady is going to determine how good this defense is. Right. Like this is all this reminder of all that kind of stuff that's still. And, and again, we've just, I'm sure you, you know, you guys have been having these discussions out here in the world as Ohio State fans. We've certainly been having it with our substack audience. There's some frustration about like, does recruiting even matter? I can't get invested in guys anymore. And like we're just, we just named like five guys on this defense that like how good this defense is. It's going to hinge on and it's all guys that you followed and recruiting. You guys. Remember when Edric Houston signed with Ohio State, that was a pretty big stinking deal, wasn't it? Getting Edric Houston. Big deal was.
- [76:53]
Bill Landis
Yeah, yeah.
- [76:54]
Doug Lam Reese
Getting Riley Pattajan Kind of a big deal.
- [76:56]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [76:56]
Doug Lam Reese
Getting Devin Sanchez. Are they all from. Is Edric Houston from Texas or is.
- [77:00]
Bill Landis
It just because last time he's from Georgia.
- [77:03]
Doug Lam Reese
Yeah, okay, but like they got Edric Houston from Georgia, Riley Pettigohn from Texas and Devin Sanchez from Texas and those were all huge signings from Alabama. Zion Grady from Alabama. It's like they dipped in and won four gigantic national recruiting battles for high level defensive players who now hold the fate of Ohio State's 2026 season in their hand. Yeah, that's like it always was. I mean, it's like James Laurinaitis just got elected to the College Football hall of Fame. Congratulations to James Laurinaitis. I remember when James Ornitis, like held Ohio State's defensive future in their hand in 2006 and like it was fine.
- [77:41]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [77:41]
Doug Lam Reese
You know, like it's just. Again, this is not. I, this is, I don't think this conversation is not making anybody nervous. You just have to be realistic and understand like what, what the deal is and, and to your puzzle analogy, how the pieces fit together.
- [77:55]
Bill Landis
Yeah. And I think I Can, I can see how this is a good puzzle. I guess like at the end, like at the end of the day, some stuff you gotta see how guys get through spring ball and develop, develop and all this stuff and gel. Like all that's important. But the, the best possible version of all this, I think is a pretty good defense still. Yes.
- [78:20]
Doug Lam Reese
Maybe not as good. Maybe like the, I, I, I don't know if there's a.
- [78:24]
Bill Landis
Are they gonna give up eight points per game? Probably not.
- [78:28]
Doug Lam Reese
Is there any chance that this defense can be as good of a defense as one that had Caleb down, Sonny Styles, Arvell Reese and Kaden McDonald and Kaden Curry and Davis?
- [78:38]
Bill Landis
No.
- [78:38]
Doug Lam Reese
No. There's going to be a step back, but it doesn't have to fall off cliff. I don't think anybody's anticipating it falling off a cliff. Hey around. There's no way your defense can be as good as last year. Right. Like so, I mean, that's, but that's.
- [78:53]
Bill Landis
That'S just acknowledging reality. Like, no, they gave up nine points per game. It was 13 touchdowns on 14 games.
- [79:03]
Doug Lam Reese
They're gonna have five defensive players in the first 15 picks of the draft. Like, it's, it's insane. So. Plus Cornell, Tate.
- [79:11]
Bill Landis
Anyway, remember, we were worried about the defense is going to be good enough 20, 25. I mean, how could they be as good? They lost so much. Well, watch this.
- [79:20]
Doug Lam Reese
That is the thing that, that is actually, in the end, as much as the 2025 defense set a standard, it also should provide hope and optimism because Sonny Styles wasn't the sunny Styles he became. The only guy who was that guy is Caleb Downs. But you did not know what Arvell Reese and Kaden McDonald and Kaden Curry were going to do. You didn't know that. No way did you know that.
- [79:40]
Bill Landis
So no.
- [79:41]
Doug Lam Reese
All right. They'll do it. Come join us on Substack. Hit the Bell on YouTube so you get notified every time the bell sound. There's a bell sound on your phone. Ding, a ding, a ding ding. Bill and Doug did a video. Ding, a ding, a ding ding. Tell a friend. And we appreciate you guys being here. For now, he's Bill Landis. I'm Doug Lemarise, and that was the Bill and Doug show.