← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Why the Penn State job is better than LSU; the SEC is actually mid; don't get Ole Miss smug: Rants
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Brian Kelly was fired at LSU. James Franklin was fired at Penn State. On this episode of The Bill and Doug Show, Doug Lesmerises compares the histories and openings at LSU and Penn State and gives you reasons why he thinks the Penn State job is better.
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Gifting and holes to deck and the who's in Whoville were in love with new tech. Where can we find Sonos and Samsung and Nintendo? They shouted. Would they find it in one place? This they questioned and doubted when suddenly a who yelled, walmart's the place to start. And each who added headphones, TVs and games to their carts. With Walmart, their shopping was done. In a flurry, they cried out, who knew? And ordered their gifts in a hurry. Shop the latest tech gifts in the Walmart app.
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Welcome back to the Bill and Doug Show. Just Doug doing rants here on this Monday. Three things we'll wrap up with don't be smug about Ole Miss in the middle. Will ask if do I really think the SEC is mid or am I just trolling everybody? But I want to start off with obviously the firing of Brian Kelly at lsu and I want to compare that to the firing of James Franklin at Penn State and those jobs and the perception of those jobs and those programs. And I, I, I don't know that I intended for the Rants to always be SEC centric but man, that's what gets me fired up. I apologize. Like, well, we're, you know, we're going to talk like our playoff show on Tuesday. I think we'll talk a lot about Iowa after a great win. I was completely wrong on that game. Iowa blew Minnesota out. So we want to talk about Iowa. I'm sure we'll do that. We'll have our pick show on Friday. We'll talk about a bunch of Big Ten things. Man, Washington looked really good against Illinois, but like the things that make me mad are SEC related. So off the top here, LSU and Penn State, Brian Kelly fired and preseason LSU was kind of a popular dark horse pick. I know Lee Corso picked LSU to win the national title. Our friend Connor o' Gara Saturday down south picked LSU to win the national title. He and I made a bet that he took LSU I think to win the sec at the very least maybe win the national championship or make the national championship game. And I took LLSU to start three and three. And if neither of those things happen, then neither of us would be right. So nobody's going to win that bet. But I want it in spirit. I think five and three and firing your coach is pretty Close to three and three. So I would just like to say I was certainly wrong about a lot of things. I had Texas in the Final Four this year. I had Penn State in the Final Four this year. I did not think LSU was going to be good and LSU is not good. And it's part of this fit with Brian Kelly. But what is happening a lot now, we've obviously had this run of all these people getting fired. Lsu, Florida, Penn State, more to come, Virginia Tech and LSU is perceived as the best job. Everyone's ranking. I looked at my friend Shahanji Haraja, great writer at CBS Sports. He had LSU one is the best job. Florida two, Penn State three. Are we sure? Last 10 years, Penn State 90 and 34. LSU 87 and 37 last 10 years. That's including this year, Penn State ninth best overall record. LSU 11th best in that time. Top 10 finishes at the end of the year in the AP poll. Top 10 finishes in the AP poll. Penn State five, LSU two. Now LSU obviously has a national championship in there. Overall, who finished better in the AP poll Four times it was Penn State three times, it was LSU twice. They were both unranked. And then you have this year. So why are we so sure that LSU is a better job than Penn State? Because what happened actually is that Brian Kelly at Notre Dame was James Franklin. 12 years at Notre Dame for Brian Kelly, 113 and 40. 12 years at Penn State for James Franklin, 104 and 45 top 25 finishes in those 12 years. Brian Kelly at Notre Dame, 8. James Franklin at Penn State, 7 top 10 finishes. Brian Kelly at Notre Dame, 4. James Franklin at Penn State 5. Brian Kelly obviously made the playoff twice at twice at Notre Dame had a national championship game appearance where they got the doors blown off by Alabama like that. That's a lot of good stuff at Notre Dame. But the whole reason that Brian Kelly left was because he felt like he couldn't get over the top at Notre Dame. And then I think you saw Marcus Freeman last year and leading the Fighting Irish the national championship game. What Marcus Freeman has done in recruiting, yes, they lost their first two games this year, but I think they've looked good as of late. I certainly think they are on track to be a playoff team. I would be surprised at this point if they don't make the playoff. No guarantees, they have no room for error. But if they get in, I think they have a chance to be pretty good and really be a problem for some teams. I think Notre Dame has elevated pro post. Brian Kelly. Brian Kelly went to LSU and he de elevated what dis escalated. He wasn't as good as the previous guys because everybody's favorite stat right now is that the previous three LSU head coaches before they left or were fired all won a national championship. Nick Saban, Les Miles at Orgeron and Brian Kelly did not do that in his four seasons. But the whole point of LSU is that LSU is nuts. LSU is more of a peak and valley program than any program in the country. I've often argued, I will repeatedly argue, I have always argued Ohio State's the most consistent. But when you talk about right, like are you always in the mix? I just think it's something to always be in the mix. It is something for your fan base to grab onto, for your fan base to enjoy through an entire off season, through three months of the season. If you're disappointed, pointed at the end. Okay, I get it. But a program like Ohio State's not throwing out a 5 and 7 in there or 7 and 5 or being out of playoff talk in September. Penn State was, was kind of like that. Once James Franklin got that going, they were always in the mix, right? And especially now in the 12 team world, I think being in the mix is even more valuable than ever. LSU is chaotic. LSU is almost psychotic. LSU is up and down and up and down. And so Brian Kelly had some of the downs, never had the peaks. Why are we sure LSU is better? Of course there's great talent in Louisiana. Of course there is investment governors in the meeting about what to do with Brian Kelly. Right? I mean again, it's just like run through your Big Ten governors, run through your northern governors and be like, man, remember that time the governor was in the meeting about whether the State University football coach should be fired. I guess maybe it's happened before, man, doesn't it sound weird to you? I'm not so sure that the, the automatic leap that LSU is a better job, which to me means is a translation of LSU is a better position program to be successful in this next era of college football. I don't know if I agree with that as we compare LSU and Penn State because it's such an interesting comparison because the idea of Brian Kelly left a James Franklin like situation to strive for more and fell on his face. And I think obviously that has a lot to do with Brian Kelly. Terrible cultural fit. All the reporting now is like he didn't develop relationship with the players. Certainly a guy can go in there and do better than that. But I also think there is great opportunity at Penn State. Because you see what Marcus Freeman did kind of almost immediately at Notre Dame. Brian Kelly set a standard and Marcus Freeman has gone above it. I think in, in. In reaching the national championship game and the type of players that they are recruiting on a regular basis. And I think Notre Dame's future is very bright. I think that's exactly what Penn State could be and that Penn State has not been this in the modern era. As it turns out, James Franklin very well may be a bridge coach. You thought, we thought, many of us thought that Bill o' Brien was that bridge coach. From the chaotic, terrible ending to the Joe Paterno era into whatever is next. Bill o' Brien comes in and kind of writes the ship and creates a situation for James Franklin to inherit. And you thought, okay, like that this is. He's the guy to take it to the next step. And then he wasn't. And I don't think it was unfair for James Franklin to be fired. I don't think it was unfair for Brian Kelly to be fired. I was already ranting about that last week, but now I think there is great opportunity. This is what we don't know what Penn State can be. We know exactly what LSU is. I do not think LSU is going to stop being chaotic. I do not think LSU is going to stop being peaks and valleys. So I think at LSU you have to assume there are going to be some valleys. You hope there are some peaks. Penn State has been a plateau of success without the peaks, but also without the valleys. I. Until this year, James Franklin got one valley and was gone. I think the next coach at Penn State can build on that plateau. And so the opportunity. I hope nobody is underestimating the opportunity at Penn State. And this is not only like SEC is a meat grinder. You don't want to. Because guess what? The Big Ten can be that too. But I think we've seen the investment that you saw from Penn State this year in paying Jim Knowles and going to nil to keep these players from going to the draft. Why wouldn't that continue? Because if you make the right and it's on Penn State, if that doesn't continue, it's because people aren't enthused about the hire. People should be incredibly enthused about the hire because you rallied this Penn State fan base when there were questions about James Franklin. I think people were like, all right, I guess I'll get my money out for this guy who's never won a big game. Well, what if you get somebody that that makes you Believe immediately that Penn State can win a big game and comes in and makes a recruiting splash in a way that makes you believe it. Immediate LSU is, you know, what you're getting into. Brian Kelly knew what he was getting into. And everybody thinks like, ah, I'll just cut out the valleys. You're never cutting out the valleys there. I don't think you're ever cutting out the valleys there. So please, when we're just like when we're making these automatic lists, right, Brian Kelly left the Penn State like situation to go fall on his face at lsu. And so we're going to say LSU is definitively the better job. I just don't think that's right. And I think you have to look at the last 10 years. I just think there is such tremendous opportunity at Penn State. And so whatever Brian Kelly, I don't, I don't care. It doesn't matter. And, and now, like Brian Kelly, we've, you know, a lot of conversations about this. Would should a Big Ten program maybe be interested in Brian Kelly? I'm always worried of catch a fallen coach. I already cashed my under on North Carolina football this year. Under seven and a half wins. I'm not. They're going to be like under two and a half wins, dangerous territory to go find the once great coach who is now on the way down. And so I think Brian Kelly is more in that situation than James Franklin is. But if Wisconsin comes open, should Brian Kelly be in that mix? If, for instance, Maryland came open, should Brian Kelly be in that mix? We had been talking about the idea that we thought this isn't Big Ten, but Scott Satterfield at Cincinnati going into this year, was he maybe on the hot seat? Instead, Cincinnati is playing at Utah this week for the lead in the Big 12. Like everyone's gonna be watching. Like, it's tremendous credit to Brennan Sorsby and Scott Satterfield and Dante Corleone and everybody who's doing what they're doing at Cincinnati. And we want to continue to talk about Cincinnati on the Bill and Doug show. But man, Brian Kelly and Luke Fickle, two former Cincinnati coaches. Luke Fickle certainly could be out of work too. That would have been great opportunity for Cincinnati, but instead Satterfield's getting it done right there. So I wouldn't rush out necessarily, if you would have to be the type of. Someone had mentioned Michigan State to us. Like, if it just gets away from Jonathan Smith there, I think that'd be a quick pull on Jonathan Smith. It's not going well. But I, I would not be there already with Michigan State to be like two years in. Jonathan Smith's not the answer. I think that's too fast. But Brian Kelly at Michigan State, like I, he had succeeded obviously at Grand Valley State, previously in the state of Michigan had won national titles there. Like, like, I get it. I would not be in a super hurry for Brian Kelly on that situation. Whereas I think a lot of people think that James Franklin could be in the mix for some of these SEC jobs. So I don't know. Brian Kelly, Grand Valley State and then Central Michigan like the Michigan roots? I don't know. I don't know. I just think Brian Kelly is 64 years old and so I don't think he's lost it. But man, I don't know. Is anybody like, yes, Brian Kelly's on the market. James Franklin's 53. I think that matters. Penn State job's a good job. Brian Kelly not the mix with Penn State job.
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Tis the season of gifting and holes to deck and the who's in who. Louisville were in love with new tech. Where can we find Sonos and Samsung and Nintendo? They shouted. Would they find it in one place? This they questioned and doubted when suddenly a who yelled Walmart's the place to start. And D2 added headphones, TVs and games to their carts. With Walmart, their shopping was done in a flurry. They cried out, who knew? And ordered their gifts in a hurry. Shop the latest tech gifts in the Walmart app.
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It's cybersecurity awareness month and LifeLock is here with tips to help protect your identity. Use strong passwords, set up multi factor authentication and report Phish scams. And for comprehensive identity protection, Lifelock is your best choice. LifeLock alerts you to suspicious uses of your personal information and also fixes identity theft. Guaranteed or your money back. Stay smart, stay safe and stay protected with a 30 day free trial@lifelock.com Special offer terms apply. Rant number two, do I actually think the SEC is middle? So I will say I am really having a good time getting in the minds of SEC fans and the latest thing I did was I went through the top 25 and I tried to kind of explain what happened to the preseason poll. Okay, what happened to the preseason poll with the AP and, and how many teams have had problems already this year? And so I have it up on the screen now if you're watching on YouTube. What I did is I went through the top 25 and, and in my very not delicate style, all Caps, black letters went through every team and like where they stand now, compared they were to the where they were in the preseason. And I continually am using the phrase mid to describe SEC teams. If you see other people using the term mid to describe SEC teams, I have that trademarked. Number one, Texas preseason top 25 A.P. number one, Texas, bad. Number two, Penn State, fired. Number three, Ohio State, good. Number four, Clemson, bad. Number five, Georgia, mid. Number six, Notre Dame. I didn't mark them because they lost their first two games to good teams, but I actually think they're playing well. I don't think they're mid. Number seven, Oregon. I didn't mark them. Not mid. Number eight, Alabama. I actually think they're mid. Like, I believe it with my heart and soul and I'll talk about that more in a second. Number nine, LSU fired. Number 10, Miami. I didn't mark them. I think they're good. Number 11, Arizona, state, mid. Number 12, Illinois, mid. Number 13, South Carolina, bad. Number 14, Michigan. I didn't mark them. Some people thought I should have said Michigan is mid. A loss at Oklahoma with a true freshman quarterback and then a loss to a USC team that that can really get it going Offensively, I think they have some good wins. Also, I understand the Michigan argument for mid. I actually think they're decent. So I did not mark them as mid. And I stand by it. Number 15, Florida, fired. So again, three of the top preseason top 15 teams have fired their coaches so far. Number 2, Penn State. Number 9, LSU. Number 15, Florida. Number 16, SMU mid. Number 17, Kansas State, bad. Number 18, Oklahoma, mid Number 19, Texas A. I didn't. I did not mark Texas A and M is good. Number 20, Indiana is obviously good. Number 21, Ole Miss, mid. Number 22, Iowa, State, mid. They've lost their last three. Number 24, Texas State. 23, Texas Tech, good. Didn't mark them. Number 24, Tennessee, mid. Number 25, Boise State. I didn't mark people like, how come you didn't mark Boise State? It's like, well, they lost to South Florida, they lost Notre Dame, but they're also a group of five team. So no, I didn't mark them as mid. So do I actually think it? Yes. I'm not only trolling SEC fans, I actually think a large group of SEC teams are middle. And I also, as I keep saying, I'm not against preseason polls, but preseason polls are not perfect. I don't think they hold anything back. I don't think they influence the committee. The committee is going to do what they're going to do a week from Tuesday. And so I think it's interesting to look at this and just see that like this sport is hard to get a handle on right now. It doesn't mean we shouldn't rank teams. But what I truly mostly believe in my heart is that Alabama is middle. And so I am, I do get great enjoyment out of making SEC and Alabama fans mad. And part of it is because this is the kind of thing when Paul Feinbaum comes on his show, which is he only has an audience that is literally a hundred thousand times bigger than my audience. And he like calls Ohio State fans all these names in the off season, right? He calls the fans names. Somebody has to tell the south to cram it. Somebody has to tell the SEC that they're puffed up and not as good as they think. And I am happy to do it. Do I occasionally exaggerate that fight at times? Of course I do. Because somebody, somebody needs to do what the SEC to the sec, what SEC honks and morons do to the Big Ten and do to northern college football. So I'm happy to do it. But it is not like an all in act, right? I actually think there are no scary teams. Texas A and M is good. Outside of Texas A and M, there are no scary teams in the sec. Alabama should have lost to South Carolina and, and, and I was at a comedy show over the weekend so like I wasn't watching the end of the game, I thought Alabama was going to lose. And then I was tweeting from the comedy show and I said like, hey, I'm at the show. And then like Alabama came back. Alabama was handed that game by a bad South Carolina team. Alabama's possessions in that game, punt, punt, fumble, touchdown, end a half, ended the half with the ball, second half downs, punt, punt, punt. That was entering the fourth quarter. Entering the fourth quarter, they'd had 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. They'd have nine possessions, they had five punts, a turnover, a stoppage on downs, a touchdown and they didn't get, they didn't get at the end of the half, managed. They were handed, handed a defensive touchdown on an early play where South Carolina just threw a pass in the flat and it hit the running back in the hands and it popped in the air and an Alabama guy caught it and ran in for a pick six. I handed a touchdown and then late credit to Alabama, they drove for the tying score, got the time, two point conversion again, just like Georgia get against Tennessee a couple weeks ago. But if you're driving against a team with a losing record to score a touchdown and a two point conversion to tie in the fourth quarter, which is exactly what Georgia did against Tennessee. You're not good. You're not good. You're lucky. I give you credit for in the moment finding a way and sucking it up. But you're in that spot because you're mid. Your midness created this situation that you have now crawled out of. But then South Carolina had the ball of two minutes left and Lenora Sellers fumbled on a play where he thought his forward momentum was stopped and the whistle should have been blown. I certainly think you could argue that. But also like, way to go South Carolina bad. South Carolina bad. Three and five now, I think, right. And you're taking Alabama to the wire. Way to hand Alabama a game. It's not an act. And then people are like in my mentions, like, oh wait, I can't wait to have this ammunition when Alabama wins the national title. Alabama's not winning the national title. Ohio State, Oregon, Indiana and Notre Dame. If the bracket allows it, three of the four semifinalists are coming from those four teams. If, if the bracket sets up that way, maybe the bracket won't and it'll be like, well, Notre Dame's got to play Indiana in the first round and then the winner of that plays Ohio State, so it can't happen. Right? But if the bracket allows it, three of those four teams, and I would not be surprised if there's no SEC team in the semis because I think Miami could be in there. I think Georgia Tech could be in there. I think Texas Tech could be in there. I think BYU could be in there. Will not be surprised if there's no SEC team in the semis. And the other thing that I would bet right now is Ohio State, Oregon, Indiana and Notre Dame. None of them in the playoff will lose to an SEC team because guess what? They were all in the playoff last year. None of them lost to an SEC team. Ohio State won the national championship. Notre Dame lost the national championship to Ohio State. Indiana lost to Notre Dame name. And Oregon lost to Ohio State. So when I say the SEC is mid, I mean it with my heart and soul. But I sometimes exaggerate it to make SEC honks. And people who have never been told that their conference is mid and that their teams are mid, sometimes I exaggerate it to make them extra mad because that brings me great personal joy. But I stand by it. And then if I'm wrong, you can play it back. Play back at the End of the year. Clip it out right now. Clip it out. I I'm, I've been wrong and I'll be wrong again. I don't think I'm wrong on this though. Last thing is watch your Ole Miss smugness. My third item last week was watch your Alabama smugness. And then they should have lost to South Carolina. The great Andy Staples from the Andy and Ari show does a tremendous job covering college football. One of the best guys out there. But he wrote ole Miss might be the first team that we can put in Sharpie for the playoff. And who baby? We are talking about an Ole Miss team that beat Oklahoma 1 at Oklahoma on Saturday. It was Lane Kiffin's first road win against a ranked SEC team. All right. Congratulations for doing something for the first time they beat which so last year when John Mateer was at Washington State, I called him Baker Matier all year because like he played like he kind of had that like eye black kind of jitterbug Wild man Baker Mayfield Energy. So then he went to Oklahoma. So which nickname do you like better for Johnman's Tier now? Do you like John Mid Tier? Because his last name is Tier and Mid tier is not just mid. It's like Mid Tier John Mid tier or Baker Midfield. Those are my two nicknames for John Matiere who has been injured and fought back from that. And this again, mostly is a reflection on Everybody thought John Mater was going to win the Heisman. It's like, is that where you are now? We're so excited. Oh, Washington State's quarterbacks going to Oklahoma. Like get the Heisman ready. So John Mateer, tough individual fighting through injury. I'm mocking the people who overrated him.
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Tis the season of gifting and holes to deck and the who's in who. Louisville were in love with new tech. Where can we find Sonos and Samsung and Nintendo? They shouted. Would they find it in one place? This they questioned and doubted when suddenly a who yelled Walmart's the place to start. And each who added headphones, TVs and games to their carts. With Walmart their shopping was done in a flurry. They cried out who knew? And ordered their gifts in a hurry shop the latest tech gifts in the Walmart app.
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Ah dsw. Birthplace of the humblebrag Here the shoes are so good. No one would ever know how little you paid if you didn't go telling everyone that is. And with never ending options for every style, mood and occasion, all at really great prices, we'll definitely give you something to brag about. So go ahead, stock up on fresh sneakers from your favorite brands or try those boots you always secretly knew you could pull off. Find the shoes that get you at prices that get your budget at DSW stores or dsw.com Old Mission this season 1 score win over 2 and 5 Kentucky 1 score win over 2 and 6 Arkansas 1 score win over 4 and 4 Washington State their last four games. They're one last team right now. Their last four games South Carolina, Citadel, Florida at Mississippi State. Would I say that South Carolina, Florida and Mississippi State are middle incredibly. So you're sure an Ole Miss team that last year lost to 5 and 5. Florida was 5 and 5 when Florida beat Ole Miss. And by the way, Ole Miss lost to a Kentucky team last year that finished 4 8. You're saying Sharpie, you're putting Ole Miss in the playoff in Sharpie. You're sure? I think South Carolina, Florida or Mississippi State's going to get them. Now. They, they very possibly, I mean very probably probably are a 10 and 2 playoff team anyway. But I also think they could lose two of those four. So like nine and three they're not getting in. So just like I'm not going out on that branch, the Ole Miss branch, the Kiffin branch. While he's meanwhile he's tracking he's now sitting about him. We had talked about we did a show. We were like, hey, you know what? Lane Kiffin for Penn State. And I mean it, I, I mean I think it'd be exciting. I think they're bringing some charisma to it. It was on around the Shoe a couple weeks ago. He's trying to figure out if he's going to go to Florida or LSU or entertain Penn state. And you're 100 sure he's locked in on this Sharpie. I would not go Sharpie. Don't get smug about Ole Miss. We would invite you to join us on around the Shoe. We do that every Monday on the Bill and Doug show where we have two great members of the Ohio State beat. Joey Kaufman of the Columbus Dispatch and Stefan Kreisnick of cleveland.com joining us this week. Tuesday evening playoff brackets from me and Bill Landis. And then next Tuesday will be the first actual committee rankings and we will now starting next Tuesday will be coming on after the committee puts its brackets out. Compare it its rankings. Compare it to our brackets. Like what we're thinking, what they got right, what they got wrong, what we're surprised by. We do our national picks on Friday. We do our Ohio State picks On Thursday, we also would invite you to try roback.com because we want to give you 20% off your first order. So I would just go look at it. They have a really good game day collection. R H O B a c d k.com Very cool, classy college football gear. 20% off your first order. Bad 20 is the code to use. And then like subscribe, Tell a friend about the Bill and Doug Show. So a lot of stuff this week for Ohio State, Penn State, a lot of coverage on our Bill and Doug OSU substack. That's billanddugosu.substack.com and then we just like to bring in these videos here on the YouTube and on the podcast feed. So we appreciate you guys being here. We're grateful to be able to cover this great, exciting sport. And I just again, if you think I'm only a troll, I am enjoying a little bit of the trolling. But I mean it in my heart. Look straight to camera. I actually think the SEC is mid. All right, that'll wrap up this version of the Bill and Doug Show. I'm Doug Lemurice and that was the Bill and Doug Show.
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The who's down and who Newville were making their list, but some didn't know. Walmart has the best brands for their gifts.
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What about toys? Do they have brands kids have been wanting? Yep.
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Barbie, Tony's and Lego.
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Gifts that will make them all cheer. Do you mean they have all the brands I adore? They have Nintendo, Nespresso, Apple and more.
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What about so the who answered questions from friends till they were blue? Each one listened and shouted from Walmart. Who knew? Sharp kiss from top brands for everyone on your list.
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