Will Brian Hartline still call plays? Ohio State prepares for the College Football Playoff

Summary

---

Podcast Summary: The Bill and Doug Show – Ohio State Football Talk

Episode: Will Brian Hartline still call plays? Ohio State prepares for the College Football Playoff
Date: December 7, 2025
Hosts: Doug Lesmerises and Bill Landis (Blue Wire)

---

Overview

This episode centers on Ohio State’s transition into the College Football Playoff as the two-seed after an upset loss to Indiana in the Big Ten Championship. Doug and Bill break down the immediate aftermath—including insights from Head Coach Ryan Day’s Sunday press availability—focusing on who will call offensive plays, personnel usage, red zone struggles, and the team's overall mentality heading into the most critical part of the season.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Who Will Call Plays in the CFP? (02:30–11:14)

• Play-Caller Uncertainty:

  • Doug directly asked Ryan Day who called plays against Indiana and who will do so in the playoff. Day’s response: “The answer was sort of like what we've been doing... it is a group effort.”
    • Doug: “I don't necessarily take that as gospel, and Ryan Day has 20 something days here to change his mind...” (02:30)
  • Doug doubts the finality of this answer, suggesting Day could opt to call plays himself, especially given the time to self-scout and prepare.

• Brian Hartline’s Absence:

  • Hartline will be away from the team in Florida this week for job-related reasons and will miss the initial phase of CFP game planning.
    • Bill: "Ryan Day said they're going to start game planning this week without Brian Hartline. But then he will come back and they will integrate him into that game planning." (04:10)
  • The offensive staff will focus on self-scouting and personnel evaluation in Hartline’s absence.

• Doug’s Expectation:

  • Given the extra preparation time and Hartline’s temporary absence, Doug predicts Day will take over play-calling:
    • Doug: "My expectation is sort of that Ryan Day will be calling plays... It’s just hard for me to see a world where this dynamic works, especially when you have a head coach whose expertise is play calling." (07:36)

• Historical Precedent:

  • Day typically becomes more involved with play-calling in the postseason, which has shown positive results.
    • Bill: "That always changes a little bit [in the postseason].” (09:21)

Notable Quote:

“You can’t do that to one of the best assistant coaches in the country. You can do that to a guy who’s leaving.”
– Bill (09:21)

---

2. Personnel Decisions vs. Indiana (14:16–18:16)

• Heavy Tight End Usage:

  • Against Indiana, Ohio State relied unusually heavily on their tight ends—three played more snaps than the slot receiver.
    • Bill: “Three tight ends played more snaps than the slot receiver.” (14:59)
  • The plan, made well before the game, was to “get big and move them around,” but Indiana’s talent and scheme thwarted this approach.

• Receiver Depth Issues:

  • With Brandon Inniss banged up and few trusted receiver options beyond Carnell Tate and Jeremiah Smith, OSU became a “two receiver team.”
    • Doug: “They look like a two receiver team right now.” (18:03)

• Game Planning Lessons:

  • The staff will spend the next week re-evaluating what works best for their personnel before cementing their approach for the CFP.

---

3. End-of-Half Clock Management (19:45–24:33)

• Questioned Conservative Approach:

  • Fans questioned the decision to methodically run down the clock before halftime against Indiana. Day explained the plan was to avoid giving Indiana any opportunity to score; with Ohio State’s poor third-down performance, avoiding a “disaster” was paramount.
  • Bill: “He did not second guess that... His point was we can't convert third downs. And so what we needed to do there was convert third down.” (20:40)
  • The approach was analytically sound but didn’t lead to the desired end-of-half points.

• Comparisons to Michigan Game:

  • Day in the past has admitted to mistakes with end-of-half management (e.g., vs. Michigan), but felt this Indiana approach was justified under the circumstances.

Notable Quote:

“They just mattered more in this [game]... not finishing the drives is not new.”
– Doug (34:26)

---

4. Red Zone Struggles and Game-Specific Issues (33:13–34:24)

• Persistent Red Zone Issues:

  • The hosts highlight Ohio State's recurring red zone inefficiency, which again turned up against Indiana.
  • Day cited a “specificity to the failures”—missed field goals and failed sneak—rather than a fundamental team flaw or lack of focus from an easy schedule.
    • Doug: "They're at 67, red zone touchdown percentage for the season. That's not where they want to be. They want to be at 75." (34:08)

• Team Mentality After Loss:

  • OSU responded to adversity by driving the length of the field twice after falling behind, but couldn't finish. This resilience reassures the hosts about the team’s playoff readiness.

---

5. Running vs. Passing Balance (27:48–30:19)

• Imbalance Vs. Indiana:

  • Ryan Day admitted “we probably should have run it more,” as Ohio State had more drop backs than handoffs.
    • Doug: "So it's more like 32 drop backs to 20 rushes. Yeah, that's probably not where they want to be." (28:06)

• Success Rate:

  • Despite not pounding the ball, when they did run, OSU had a 52% rushing success rate—a very solid figure against Indiana’s defense.

• Execution Woes:

  • Missed opportunities included running backs failing to break tackles when the play was blocked well.
    • Bill on Bo Jackson: “The guy like got a backhand grab, like falling past him and with his only free hand, like grabbed his thigh and spun him around...” (30:10)

---

6. Kicking Concerns (25:02–26:46)

• Clutch Performance Issues:
  • Day was blunt: “Everyone on the team has a job to do and Jaden Fielding has to do his. And in big moments, he hasn’t done it.” (25:26)
• Potential Changes:
  • The staff has considered other kicking options, but maintains realistic, measured support for Fielding—not the standard “we have full confidence” answer.

---

7. Team Psyche and Playoff Outlook (35:24–37:11)

• Different Headspace from Last Year:

  • Doug and Bill see this team as confident, focused, and less “broken” after their loss than the previous year, with the coaching staff feeling problems are fixable—not fundamental.
    • Doug: “I think they're still confident. They're mad they didn't play their best against Indiana, but they feel like their best can get them another championship.” (35:27)

• Historical Parallel:

  • Parallels drawn to the 2021 Georgia team which lost its conference title but rebounded to win the national title after a rematch, suggesting OSU’s destiny is still unwritten.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Who's Calling Plays:
  “I’d be lying if I said I 100% believed him in terms of what's going to happen moving forward.”
  – Doug (02:30)

• On Personnel Limitations:
  “They don’t have other people to put on the field… they're a two receiver team right now.”
  – Bill & Doug (18:03)

• On Game Planning Without Hartline:
  “The idea that Ryan Day and Tyler Bowen and Carlos Lachlan and Keenan Bailey and Billy Fessler… are going to sit here for a week and say, who are we? What do we do best? What do we want to change?”
  – Bill (06:42)

• On Red Zone Efficiency:
  “They're at 67% red zone touchdown percentage for the season. That's not where they want to be. They want to be at 75. It's a high bar.”
  – Doug (34:08)

• On Team Mentality:
  “There’s not a whole lot of soul searching going on. It's just like they got to play better. And I think that puts them in a much different position than they were a year ago.”
  – Doug (35:27)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:30: Who called plays vs. Indiana? Will Hartline still call plays in the CFP?
• 04:10: Hartline missing early game planning; OSU’s staff focuses on self-scouting
• 07:36: Should Ryan Day call plays in the Playoff? Comparison to regular season responsibilities
• 14:59: Tight end-heavy personnel vs. Indiana, wide receiver depth issues
• 19:45: Halftime clock management strategy explained
• 24:33: The “middle eight” and lost momentum
• 25:26: Day's candid assessment of kicker Jaden Fielding’s “big moment” struggles
• 27:48: Did Ohio State throw too much? Day laments imbalance
• 33:13: Red zone issues persist; are they systemic or situational?
• 35:27: Team mentality: this year vs. last after a late-season loss
• 37:11: National title hope: drawing parallels to 2021 Georgia

---

Conclusion

Doug and Bill provide a grounded, honest assessment of Ohio State’s situation heading into the College Football Playoff. There’s intrigue around the offensive play-caller, justified concern about personnel and red zone performance, but a shared belief that this team, led by an engaged and experienced Ryan Day, is still among the favorites for another national championship. The episode captures the tension, questions, and optimism enveloping Buckeye Nation at this pivotal moment.

---

Transcript

[Walmart Wellness Advertiser]

I'm a high note hitting Songbird, but I'm also a bird watching backpacker.

[Bill Landis]

Wood Thrush 3 o' clock Walmart has.

[Walmart Wellness Advertiser]

A wellness side too with tons of things I need to feel good from electrolytes to help keep me hydrated to soothing cough drops for after every show.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

Oh man.

[Bill Landis]

How about waterproof boots size 10?

[Walmart Wellness Advertiser]

They've got half a billion things online, on the app and in store.

[Bill Landis]

Really? Who knew? Okay, was that you or the birds?

[Walmart Wellness Advertiser]

Check out the wellness side of Walmart today.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

If your appliances can't handle the holiday hosting heat. December deal drops at Lowe's makes upgrading easy. Get up to 35% off select major appliances and rewards members. Save an additional $40 on the whirlpool electric range and the over the range microwave. Plus get up to 60% off select ladders so you can deck all the halls. Lowes we help you save valid through 1210 while supplies last selection varies by location. Loyalty programs subject to terms and conditions. See lowe's.com terms for details.

[Bill Landis]

Foreign.

Welcome back to the Bill and Doug show at the Woody Hayes Athletic Center. Douglas Maurice and Bill Landis we just got done talking with Ryan Day on Sunday afternoon. Bill Ohio State in the playoff as this as the two seed but if you guys missed it we did a a live react to the bracket to the fact that Ohio State is playing in the Cotton bowl against the Miami Texas winner.

Texas A M. Yeah, they play in Texas. They could play Texas and Texas A M the same year. Well Texas.

Texas has played Texas A M and Ohio State. Will they call Ohio State and give them a scouting report on Texas A M because they hate Texas A M so much.

[Douglas Maurice]

Oh maybe. Yeah, I could see that. Or Ryan Day and Steve Sarkeesian tight. How about Ohio State with an opportunity to play Texas Texas A M and Texas Tech.

[Bill Landis]

Wow.

[Douglas Maurice]

All in the same year.

[Bill Landis]

Stars are bright. We are going to talk about Ohio State football though because we just got done talking with Ryan Day and it's one of those where it's it was even live streamed or it was like a zoom call or whatever that's supposed to be. Also I think for the Cotton bowl and there was not there was maybe like one TV question at the end about like what your Tex Mex platter going to look like but it was mostly ball talk about what happened on Saturday night in Indianapolis which I think Ryan Day said he barely slept and he was up re watching the game. So we kind of had Ryan Day second look about what happened and I think we tried to ask as many specific questions about the football as it relates to moving forward as we could, including you drilling down and saying to.

[Douglas Maurice]

Ryan Day what who called plays on Friday night and who will call plays on December 31st when Ohio State is on the field again? And the answer was Brian Hartline. The answer was sort of like what we've been doing. And, and that is, I think at times been a bit of a moving target this year. So like, I don't, I don't necessarily take that as gospel and Ryan Day has 20 something days here to change his mind on that, certainly if he wants to. But I, you know, I don't know when we're going to talk to him again. It's possible we don't talk to him again until we're in Dallas. So I wanted to kind of get that out there just to see what he said. So it's one of those things where like, it's good to have him on the record. I don't, I think I'd be lying if I said I 100 believed him in terms of what's going to happen moving forward. But he did say that last night the Brian Hartline was calling the plays and that it is a quote, group effort.

[Bill Landis]

Consternation, confusion, curiosity about who is calling plays is nothing new. Nope. This is, we want to know it, fans want to know it, we get it. And the answer is always, they like to keep it a little bit hidden. Everybody's on the headset together. It is collaborative. Even if you have an OC who's a play caller, the head coach can always override things because he's the boss. He can say, I want to do this now you pick one of the three type of plays that fit this plan. Here's it within the answer to your question. I thought this was interesting. Ryan Day said that Brian Hartline will be in Florida this coming week. He said a week.

[Douglas Maurice]

He's being introduced tomorrow. Monday, Monday, I think at 11am he's being introduced.

[Bill Landis]

But he did not say, Ryan, that Brian Hartland is going to South Florida, to the Tampa area to be introduced on Monday and then he'll be back.

[Douglas Maurice]

Yeah, all this week.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, all this week. And Ryan Day said they're going to start game planning this week without Brian Hartline. But then he will come back and they will integrate him into that game planning. They're going to lay the foundation here of how they are.

[Douglas Maurice]

Are they? Because they don't know who they're playing.

[Bill Landis]

They don't know who they're playing, but they know what they think they do best, they're going to self scout, they're going to reevaluate. What do we do best, not do best, what do we want to improve on? What do we want to punt? What do we want to add? They will do that.

[Douglas Maurice]

Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

Without the oc.

[Douglas Maurice]

Yes. I think to. You can call it, I mean, it's all game planning.

[Bill Landis]

Right.

[Douglas Maurice]

It falls all under the umbrella of game planning. I think this next week will be a little more inward facing and then you do some prep work so that it's, you know, you're not waiting until December 20th to figure out who you're playing and then you really start game planning in earnest. So they'll look at both teams and figure out some things. But they're not, they're not laying down the game plan for December 31st this.

[Bill Landis]

Week necessarily, but they might be making decisions on and we're going to get into this the the 13 and 14 tight end, three and four tight ends on the field, personnel usage in Indianapolis. Ryan Day said here on Sunday that they did that strategically. It was part of their game plan because they thought it would be an advantage for them. You said you thought that means that they thought they could get down close, put in the tight ends and push Indiana around.

[Douglas Maurice]

Yeah, I think that that's, that's the one thing that maybe deserves some further explanation. They're not standing on the sidelines talking to each other through the headsets with the ball on the 10 and going, I don't know, I guess let's put three tight ends out there. Those decisions are made on Sunday before they got to Indianapolis, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday.

[Bill Landis]

And practiced on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. And if they didn't think it was working in practice, they wouldn't do it.

[Douglas Maurice]

So that was their plan coming into the game. It just didn't work. But yeah, I think, I think the idea was we're going to get big and move them around a little bit. And part of me does wonder because that worked against Michigan, if they got lured into a little bit of a false sense of security or perhaps the wrong idea of exactly what this tight end group is and what this offense is when they try to play with that personnel grouping because they were just playing a much better defense in Indiana, better coached. I, I think better talent, better scheme, like all across better, better in every way across the board. And it just didn't work the way they thought it was going to work. So I. But yes, I think those are the kind of conversations they're going to have sort of in the next week of like, okay, like sort of like, who, who are we? Who are we? And, and what are we going to do? And what do we think is our best plan, personnel scheme wise to get through this playoff and win another championship?

[Bill Landis]

And you do have an opportunity. This is even different than a bye week. You have an opportunity to, to self evaluate with a, with a breath in a way that you do not have during a season. And so this is the thing that just makes me curious. This is an, it is not an unheard of situation. It is not a typical situation, though, to have a coordinator who is going to be gone for a week. Now, again, there's plenty of other teams who are dealing with it. Oregon's going to be dealing with it on both sides of the ball, for instance. But the idea that Ryan Day and Tyler Bowen and Carlos Lachlan and Keenan Bailey and Billy Fessler and everybody on the offensive staff are going to sit here for a week and say, who are we? What do we do best? What do we want to change? What do we want to accentuate? What do we want to throw out? And then Ryan dad's gonna, then Brian Hartlage get it back, back from Florida and be like, hey, what's our offense? And Ryan Day is gonna be like, oh, here's the offense. Hey, get ready to call it.

I don't know if I see that.

[Douglas Maurice]

I, that's why I said I don't, I don't fully believe.

My expectation is sort of the Ryan Day will be calling plays. Whether, whether or not he expressly says that is another thing. It's just hard for me to see a world where like this dynamic works, especially when you have a head coach whose expertise is play calling. If it were, if Ryan Day were a defensive guy, it'd be a different thing. But because that is such a luxury, I guess I would say for Ohio State at this point, I just have a hard time seeing like what has been status quo through last night, through Friday night or Saturday night, excuse me, being what they do the next time around the field.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. And, and I think we believe that may have happened to a greater degree even if Brian Harley wasn't leaving for a new job. Like, as you've always said, Ryan Day gets more involved with play calling when he has more time in the postseason. And the whole thing of whenever I was saying in the past or people thought in the past, Ryan Day needs to give up play calling, that's because you need to be the coach of the team and the culture when the when the bullets are flying during the season. Right. And that's a lot of. That is a Michigan discussion. Is your team in the right headspace to get ready for Michigan? If your team in the midst of a season after the Oregon loss last year, and you do make, you need to make defensive adjustments. You can't have a head coach who's buried in the offensive meeting room all the time. Right. That's when all that matters. I don't think he should be the play caller, but now he has time to be the play caller and that always changes a little bit. But he even, and he even said that, he even said here on Sunday, I have more time. And now you're also saying the guy's going to be in Florida for a week. It just accentuates what, what they would have moved toward anyway. But also there's no hurt feelings because Ryan Day can't come in and say, hey, Brian Hartline, I made you the oc, but by the way, I'm going to Bigfoot in the postseason. And you're not really the, you're the regular season oc, I'm the postseason oc.

[Douglas Maurice]

Right.

[Bill Landis]

You can't do that to one of the best assistant coaches in the country. You can do that to a guy who's leaving. You can.

[Douglas Maurice]

Yeah. And you maybe can't say it publicly, but you can do whatever you want behind the closed doors of the Woody. And once you're on the field in Dallas and no one knows any better what's happening anyway. So, yeah, I think that's what'll happen. And, and.

For as much as, like, coaches complain about, like, the roster building calendar, I think it actually helps. Right, because recruiting's done, high school recruiting's done, and the portal doesn't open until January. And in theory, you can't talk to guys until then. But that's for Mark Rantoni and his staff. Anyway, like, I think there's a, there's a nice window here for Ryan Day to get really dialed in on this game plan for wherever they end up playing on the 31st. And then when that day comes, you know, whether he's calling every single play, like, I don't know. But I think he will have a heavier hand in game day management and play calling when that game comes to.

[Bill Landis]

You, you think about how much Ryan Day could focus on game planning and play calling between the Michigan game and the Indiana game and how much he can focus on game planning and play calling between the Indiana game and the Cotton ball, and it's 20 fold it is.

[Douglas Maurice]

And I also think, like, you can say, like, okay, well, that's all well and good. What about the other side of the Cotton Bowl?

Because it's about. It's about a normal lead in, right? It's like, it's like eight or nine days, I think, between. Between games there. But I think there's something about sort of like establishing a baseline over these next three weeks, too, that you can just like sort of fall back on once you're into quicker turnarounds in the semifinals on the national championship. So, yes, like, the lead in is different. It's not three weeks once you get past the Cotton ball. But I do think there's something gained from these three weeks that'll still help them and help them last year, too, when the turnarounds became shorter. So, like, I wouldn't. I wouldn't worry about that necessarily, I guess, is what I'm saying. Like, it's not a. It's not a. The window only exists for this particular game kind of thing. Like, there's a way to like pocket that and build off of it once you get past the combat.

[Bill Landis]

I do think this is a. This is an issue of frustration and curiosity for Ohio State fans. I think our conclusion is there is not going to be a public announcement that will soothe all of your questions and concerns about it. But I. We think that in actuality, the way it is going to work with game planning and play calling, fans may actually be pretty happy with how that works out because it will be more Ryan Day, perhaps significantly more Ryan Day. And if there is any frustration with Brian Hartline, he's not going anywhere. But Ryan Day is going to have his hands all over this.

[Douglas Maurice]

Yes. Yeah. I think. And think about how they came out like guns ablazing against Oregon.

[Bill Landis]

Right.

[Douglas Maurice]

That was the byproduct of that. Now, this is different because even last year they knew they were playing Tennessee and they knew they were playing Oregon. If they won like they are, they are getting ready for two opponents and are only going to have. Well, I guess we still have about a week and a half once the. Once that Texas A and Miami game gets played. So I. That's a lot of time to get ready for an opponent.

[Bill Landis]

I.

[Douglas Maurice]

You don't want to give them too much benefit of the doubt, I guess. I do think there's a little bit of proof of concept here with what they were able to do last year once Ryan Day got more involved. And that is. That is the same plan this time around.

[Bill Landis]

And again, it's not. It's not a an automatic fix because there are plenty of Ohio State fans who get frustrated with Ryan Day's play calling too. Of course, we understand that.

[Douglas Maurice]

But, but he's always had like we were saying this on our drive back from Indy, right? Like, I know Ryan Day's like win loss record is not sterling in like playoff semifinals bowl games when he's had extra time to prepare. But if you remove like the 20, 23 cotton ball, which was a mess from the equation, like his teams play pretty well and like when they have, when they have that kind of long layoff into a game. So I would, I would. And they have like a like pretty sound offensive plan to attack whoever it is they're playing. And I would expect the same this time around.

[Bill Landis]

And Doug, here we have the Limu Emu in its natural habitat helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

[Bill Landis]

Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you need@liberty mutual.com.

Savings Ferry Unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Co. Affiliates excludes Massachusetts the best part.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

Of holiday gifting giving them something they'll use all year. During December deal drops at Lowe's save $40 on select Craftsman V20 tools now just 59 plus all rewards. Members get free standard shipping shop new December deal drops every every week this month Lowe's we help you save valid through 1210 wall supplies last free shipping excludes Alaska and Hawaii. Exclusions and more terms apply. Loyalty programs subject to terms and conditions subject to change. Visit lowe's.com shippingterms for details.

[Bill Landis]

So we were sort of curious about some of the personnel decisions, particularly as it relates to all the tight ends that played in those packages. Just to double check for people 57 offensive snaps against Indiana. Jeremiah Smith did play 53 of 57. So he basically played the whole game. Carnell Tate played 41 of 57. Brandon Innis did not really play a ton. He only played 21 of 57. And then when you look at the tight ends, Will Kazmarick played 45. Max Claire played 35. Bennett Christian played 23. So three tight ends played more snaps than the slot receiver.

Ryan Day thought. It's, it's two things here because I want to talk about the the tight end personnel packages but also then related to Carnell Tate. They thought there was an advantage with some of the heavier tight end looks. But he also did mention that yes, they maybe when they can they do want to take some snaps off those receivers? Although, as it worked out, they didn't with Jeremiah Smith.

[Douglas Maurice]

Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

It was only a Carnell Tate discussion in this one that they did not play him six. You know, there's 16 snaps. Carnell Tate wasn't on the field.

[Douglas Maurice]

Yeah. I think.

Part of that's health. And what did he say about. About Carnell and Jeremiah and if they were 100. Was he asked that today? I think he was asked that today.

[Bill Landis]

He said, like, he said, are. Are they a hundred percent? Yes.

[Douglas Maurice]

Played 50, 60 snapshots. Yes.

[Bill Landis]

But it was.

[Douglas Maurice]

But it was good that they didn't have to. I think it's kind of how he couched it.

[Bill Landis]

Yes. That he. He sort of was. He started to say an answer that was like, oh, maybe they weren't all the way there, but then he finished the answer by saying, but they were all the way there, but we don't want to do it. Even though they could have. I thought was the kind of the answer in the end.

[Douglas Maurice]

But then. But is that. Is the acknowledgment of, like, we didn't want to do it even if they could have an acknowledgment of, like, yeah, they're not 100. He's just not going to say that.

[Bill Landis]

Except also. But they. They didn't do that with Jeremiah. Jeremiah played the whole game.

[Douglas Maurice]

Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

But they. They did do it with Cornell. Yeah.

[Douglas Maurice]

And he said they had stuff thrown up for Cornell that got covered and.

[Bill Landis]

Taken away because only four targets for Carnell.

[Douglas Maurice]

Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

Right. As opposed to 10 for Jeremiah.

[Douglas Maurice]

Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

And is there something to that? And to. To that? He said, no, that's not game plan. That's not.

[Douglas Maurice]

They didn't have him out there as a decoy. They were trying to get him the ball. And they felt like Indiana was taking some things away. And I think, like, what is interesting to me, and I think we said this in our preview, is that Indiana thinks its best version of its defense is when it plays three linebackers, as opposed to taking one of those linebackers off the field, which would be Isaiah Jones, who's very good and having to play a nickel in his place. And Ohio State decided to deploy its offensive personnel in a way that allowed Indiana to play its preferred defensive personnel. Part of me wonders if, like, Brandon Ennis has just, like, left games and come back and he's a tough dude, and I'll give him credit for it, but, like, how many times have we seen him get hit, get up slowly, go to the sideline like, I wonder if he's a little banged up. And maybe they couldn't play as much 11 personnel in this game as they wanted to also because they don't trust their receiver depth clearly.

So maybe they had no other choice but to play as many tight ends as they did. But like, it just, it just didn't work the way they wanted it to.

[Bill Landis]

For Indiana. 57 defensive snaps. Their three linebackers played the whole game.

[Douglas Maurice]

Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

Aiden Fisher 54, Isaiah Jones 53, Elijah Hardy 51. They did. They didn't leave the field. Yeah. So Ohio State, like did not. And again, this is just this situation where they just also, they can't. They said they want to lean into tight ends, but if you're trying to, if you are thinking in your head at all that we want to save a couple snaps on Jeremiah Smith or Carnell Tate, they don't have receiver options to do it. David Adolf played one snap. Bryson Rogers and Miley Graham didn't play. They don't have other people to put on the field. They didn't even play. They didn't play. Brandon innis more than 25 snapshots.

[Douglas Maurice]

Yeah, they're a two receiver team. Basically.

[Bill Landis]

They're a two receiver team right now.

[Douglas Maurice]

I think Brandon Innocent, like, I think, you know, made some big catches against Michigan, made a couple of nice ones in those games when Carnell and Jeremiah weren't, weren't out there. But yeah, they look like a two receiver team right now.

[Bill Landis]

We, we try to talk quieter because Ryan Day standing right there and we're like. And by the way, this is what we think's wrong with Ohio State. We just shooting our shot here. Yeah, we're keeping it real.

[Douglas Maurice]

I think we can talk about the team in an honest way and people.

[Bill Landis]

Probably agree a lot with a lot.

[Douglas Maurice]

Of what we're saying.

[Bill Landis]

This, this video would go through the roof if Ryan. They came over here and started wailing on us though, right?

[Douglas Maurice]

Just sat down behind us with a nice can of seven up inside.

[Bill Landis]

Oh my God. We should do that. We should put Ryan Day's face on that guy's body.

Okay. The end of the first half, which was something that a lot of our people and give. If we're not in the heat of the moment here as much. So we don't mind promoting ourselves slightly. Little bit more. The Bill and Doug substack. We'd love to have you come join us here for this playoff run. BillAndDugosu.substack.com Again, that is. BillAndDugosu.substack.com we know a bunch of you already there. We really appreciate it. But this was something that a lot of people had wondering about. People were wondering about who's calling plays. You asked about that. We try to ask what people care about. They were wondering about what was the decision making at the end of the first half. With that, Ohio State did not come out and go super fast. And Ryan Day said that was a plan. He said they had three timeouts. They had like 3 minutes and 20 seconds when they took the field there. And what they wanted to do was either end the half as he always talks about, the middle eight. Last four minutes of the first half, first four minutes of the second half, they wanted to either end with the ball in their hands or with like scoring or kicking or points at the end there. What they did not want to do, it certainly was on their mind. What they did not want to do was give the ball back to Indiana with time on the clock. And that was not something, as Ryan Day explained it, because I thought the thing that was interesting is Ryan Day, who's there standing right now, he's coming here next, by the way, do we have a third mic?

[Douglas Maurice]

We don't have a way to plug a third mic in.

[Bill Landis]

I'll get up. Sometimes you gotta talk to me like you were to get a new box just for when the. The head coach comes on over. He explained it. Not from a point of. He explained it analytically. He said, and the thing that was interesting with Ryan Day today is that he said he was up and watched the whole. Watched everything again. Right. So he had a second look at everything and it was fresh in his mind. Sometimes you talk to people, it's like, well, I haven't even had time to like, what did you think? It's like, I don't know, I haven't seen anything yet.

[Douglas Maurice]

Right.

[Bill Landis]

He had evaluated that. So he was not second guessing that. But his point was we can't convert third downs. And so what we needed to do there was convert third down. So they converted one third down on an 11 yard pass to Cornell Tate.

[Douglas Maurice]

That was first down.

[Bill Landis]

Well, excuse me. They got a first down, right? You've got to get a first down. So they did get one first down, but then they got sack, sack and then failed on third down. But because they had not been pushing the clock or because they had not been pushing the tempo, when they did give it back to Indiana, Indiana didn't really have time to do anything.

He did not second guess that. And he said analytically that they would say that's the correct way to handle that. What did you think of that response?

[Douglas Maurice]

I think it makes sense. The thing about it that was most puzzling to me was like to get that first first down. It's like, okay, you're like in a quasi two minute here. Not really because you got the three timeouts and you have the two minute timeout, but like you gotta, you're trying to do a very, like, do a very specific thing here in terms of clock and ending with points. Like I understand that. But to get 11 yards on first down and then just let it run down to the two minute timeout was the thing that was most puzzling to me. But he said like they kind of wanted to get it to the two minute timeout because they still had three timeouts in their pocket and felt like they had enough time and good enough field position to kind of like massage that the right way and get to where they wanted to get to. So like, I guess, I guess it's sound. It was just a little puzzling to me in the moment to see them let that much time run off the clock after that initial first down.

[Bill Landis]

The cardinal thing, because I will say.

The we think was 2:23 Michigan game where they were not aggressive end of the first half. End of the first half. And then when he, when we asked him about that after the fact there, he did say maybe that was a mistake.

[Douglas Maurice]

Yeah, right.

[Bill Landis]

And so, and then talking about things today, he was asked by Dylan Davis, for instance, about do you wish you would use maybe a Lincoln Keenholtz package? And he said, well, yeah, because like we work on that. And then what we did didn't work. So then you think maybe we should have done that. So I do think he would. He had reevaluated what happened in the game and was willing to second guess some of the things basically by saying if it didn't work, of course we would question it. But he didn't second guess that.

[Douglas Maurice]

Right.

[Bill Landis]

And so because, because it wasn't the worst case scenario there is. The offense doesn't work, you give the ball back. Now Indiana scores. So what happened there was, it was unsuccessful for Ohio State in a two minute drill. That's not good. They want to win the middle eight. But it wasn't disastrous. It didn't completely flip the game that Indiana went in with momentum.

[Douglas Maurice]

No, it didn't. And I guess that's the biggest thing. Like you want to, you want to control momentum there as much as you can. And even if you don't Give it to yourself. At least you didn't give it to them. So I, you know, that's, that's the next best thing, I suppose, to not scoring. And, and I think you also, like you, you re litigate that end of half a little more because they didn't score on the other side of the break either.

[Bill Landis]

Right.

[Douglas Maurice]

And that was far more disastrous. That's, that's the drive where they got sacked twice and lost 19 yards. So.

And you can't know that's going to happen. So like, if you, like, you know, if you said to him like, hey, by the way, you're going to come out on your first drive in the second half and run four plays, a punt or whatever it was, five plays, a punt, he might say like, okay, well maybe we manage that drive before the half a little bit differently.

[Bill Landis]

So it is. And again he has talked about middle late as a lot of coaches do all season. Again, last four minutes of the first half, first four minutes of the second half. Their drive to end the first half is four plays, 13 yards, 2 minutes and 22 seconds and a punt. Their drive to open the second half is five plays, 11 yards, 3 minutes and 24 seconds at a punt. And then when they punt it back to Indiana and Indiana goes on a seven play, 88 yard touchdown drive, that is what gives them the lead.

[Douglas Maurice]

Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

Right. So that was a, he did reference that again, right, that like middle eight's so important and middle eight did not go how they want it to go.

[Douglas Maurice]

No. And it often does. They're, they, they've been a pretty good middle eight team all year. They just, they just weren't against Indiana and like, you know, that felt like we can say like, why don't you do this? Why don't you do this? And I'm not saying like you, you should, but I, I think honestly, like what kind of what it comes down to Ryan Day's mind, which is sort of what he said. It's like, like when we play well, we're good enough to beat anybody. And when we don't play well, there are teams out there who are good enough to beat us and they happen to be playing one of them on Saturday night.

[Bill Landis]

Ten units, he said when all 10 units are operating. That's exactly what he said.

[Douglas Maurice]

Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

Handling the kicking situation and, and again, it can be a dangerous, you know, people ask questions in different way. I did think the way he was asked about the kicking situation, it was like, what are you going to do to still have confidence in him? It was like trying to like. And it's like, well, that's. That it's harder to give an honest answer. But even within that, I thought he gave an answer that was honest and was not just like, that'll be fine.

[Douglas Maurice]

He's got to do. Everyone on the team has a job to do and Jaden Fielding has to do his. And in big moments, he hasn't done it.

[Bill Landis]

Which then means, so are you gonna ask him to do that job again in a big moment? And I think that, I think that is in question right now. I don't know what that means in terms of. We have talked about. There is a Ball State transfer who made a 50 plus game winning yard field goal for Ball State last year against Northern Illinois who is a preferred walk on here but is in the building. I don't know that that means that's what's up. But, but I don't think a lot of times because you, if you, you have to express enough confidence that if you're in a situation.

The guy can't go out there, especially a kicker, you can't go out there, be like, oh, God. Remember when the coaches like said, nobody believes in me.

[Douglas Maurice]

I guess I'll tow it up.

[Bill Landis]

God, I hope enough to kick a field goal to win. That would be like, so, like you can't. But, but I think there's some honesty being expressed here that I think again, if they're for a frustration for Ohio State fans, I don't know that this, that the, what the answer communicated today was like, keep, we'll keep doing the same thing. It'll be fine.

[Douglas Maurice]

Yeah, I don't think that's where it is. And it wasn't like sometimes it doesn't go your way. But we have the utmost confidence in.

[Bill Landis]

Our guy because that's, that's realistic.

[Douglas Maurice]

Yeah, no, I know.

[Bill Landis]

So, so I think that that is, that is a realistic situation.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

The best part of holiday gifting, giving them something they'll use all year. During December, deal drops at Lowe's. Save $40 on select Craftsman V20 tools. Now just $59 plus all rewards. Members get free standard shipping shop. New December deal drops every week this month. Lowe's we help you save. Valid through 1210 while supplies last. Free shipping excludes Alaska and Hawaii. Exclusions and more terms apply. Loyalty programs subject to terms and conditions subject to change. Visit Lowes.com ShippingTerms for details.

[Clorox Toilet Wand Advertiser]

Clorox Toilet Wand. It's all in one. Clorox Toilet wand. It's all in one.

[Walmart Wellness Advertiser]

Hey, what does all in one mean.

[Clorox Toilet Wand Advertiser]

The Caddy, the wand, the preloaded pad. There's a cleaner in there inside the pad.

[Walmart Wellness Advertiser]

So Clorox toilet wand is all I need to clean a toilet.

[Clorox Toilet Wand Advertiser]

You don't need a bottle of solution.

To get into this toilet revolution. Clorox clean feels good.

[Walmart Wellness Advertiser]

Use as directed.

[Bill Landis]

And I do think one of the last things here, and this is, you know, this is. I'm, I'm Mr. Chuck It Around. Right.

He basically think, thought they didn't run it enough, which you were talking about afterward after the game. But like he reinforced that, that just the number of drop backs versus the number of handoffs to the running back. He thought they were imbalanced.

[Douglas Maurice]

Yeah. So there were five stand up with 30 past attempts wanted by Brandon Ennis. That's a drop back. So five sacks, 35 drop backs. Three of those I think were the last, like Hail Mary situation. So like, of course you can throw it there. So it's more like 32 drop backs to 20, 20 rushes. Yeah, that's, that's probably not where they want to be. It's interesting to me, like he said like that, you know, we never really felt like we got the wrong game going. Can you be a favorite? Go to comparison on there.

[Bill Landis]

Yep.

[Douglas Maurice]

And then go to.

Advanced stats. Let's see what the rushing Successance rate was.52 rushing success rate for Ohio State. Indiana's was 35. I didn't, you know, they didn't. Weren't lining it up and running down their throat every play. But I actually thought sort of outside of the situations, which obviously are the most important, they were running it pretty well. But he said like, we never got the run game going. I don't know if I agree with that necessarily.

[Bill Landis]

Do your job stat. Like, is that, is that rushing play accomplishing the goal on that play, on first down, on second down in this yardage, on third down, in this yardage.

[Douglas Maurice]

Like, are you getting, Are you getting. I think it's four on first half of what you need on second and then the first down on third. Yep.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Douglas Maurice]

And they were at 52, which is like, you know, it's pretty good, especially against a defense like that. I wonder how many teams Indiana's played all year that had a rushing success rate. Success rate above 50. I'd imagine not many, if any. And I thought Bo Jackson ran well. So yeah, it all comes back to they probably, they probably should have ran it more. And he seemed to agree with that. But he also said they should have ran it better. And I don't, I don't disagree with that either. Like, like clearly, yes. And I think when he's saying that he's talking more situations than he is overall. But like, sort of like between the twenties, they, they did run it pretty well.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. Yeah. He was sort of bemoaning the fact that they had a couple where he thought they blocked it up well and then it's on the back, like make one guy miss, run through one tackle. And they didn't do that. And then he said there were times when they didn't block it up. Yeah. So which is when your run game doesn't work. That's, that's what it is. And you could see you were looking at a photo today of like right. One of the plays where it felt like Bo Jackson was through the hole and maybe gone.

[Douglas Maurice]

Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

And the guy like got a backhand.

[Douglas Maurice]

Grab, like falling past him and with his only free hand, like grabbed his thigh and spun him around in a way that got him down like, like.

[Bill Landis]

With a backhand that you don't normally see on like tackling form. But you gotta do what you gotta do. He also said like, anger should be a motivator.

[Douglas Maurice]

Yeah, I want to read.

The like the money quote. I think about like what they want to be moving forward to be at maximum speed, effort and violence and really peaking at the end of the month and reference several times maintaining their edge. And he thinks at least in some part the anger of losing that game the way that they did can fuel that. Yeah, I think I agree with that.

[Bill Landis]

I do think, I mean, I think it's, it's hard in the end.

You know, we've had some people say like, see this is what happens when like you don't try hard or whatever in the last month against those lesser teams. But like their receivers were all hurt and they were trying to deal with that and they didn't, they didn't just roll over and win 20 to 11 in those games. You know, I, I don't think they lost because.

[Douglas Maurice]

And we even talk with.

[Bill Landis]

People here, it was this a symptom of like they weren't tested enough during the year. Right. That just when you saw the way the schedule shook out and once Penn State wasn't going to be good, like who? I, I don't think that's the deal either. I don't think that to me, what happened on Saturday night was not the result of like a season long convergence of not enough competition. Them taking their foot off the pedal, them getting a big head about being the undefeated number one team. In the country when they're actually not getting pushed at all. I think it is more specific about everybody's dealing with it. But a weird week and a good opponent in a tough spot and red zone stuff, right? And then like the lingering issues of the things that have kind of been bothering them all year. But like as he was saying in there, listen, like for all the things that happened, if we make those two red zone trips that we, we talked about on the, on the live show last night, two long marches at the end, one is ended by a fourth and one sneak that falls short. One is ended by a missed 27 yard field goal. If you get one field goal there out of those two trips, you're in overtime. If you get two field goals there out of those two trips, YOU'RE AHEAD. If you get one touchdown there, you're ahead. If you get. And then he said if you get two touchdowns there, it's 24 13. And people are like, man, like Ohio State really kind of came back and handled their business against Indiana. And that is, that is. It's not excuse making because they didn't do it. They didn't do it. But it. My point is, I think there's a specificity to the failures as opposed to a vagueness and generality to the failures that would lead you to believe like, ah, this team got soft because their schedule wasn't good.

[Douglas Maurice]

Right.

[Bill Landis]

It was like a screwy week. The red zone stuff that had kind of been a bugaboo for them always year cropped up, not surprisingly, but cropped up and the opponent was really good. And I'm like, I think, I think those are the three things. Not they were cruising for a bruising because nobody's challenged them since August.

[Douglas Maurice]

Yeah, I agree. The only thing I would add to that is like if, if they had not, and we said this last night, I'm repeating myself a little bit, I guess. Had they not immediately upon going down in the second half for the first time all year, driven at 70 yards and 81 yards against what might be the best defense in the country, I would feel kind of like how you were describing before of like maybe, maybe we've been wrong about this team and it was just a matter of when they got dragged into deep water. Would they be able to respond that, no, they can't, but they kind of did. They just didn't finish the drives. And not finishing the drives is, is not new.

[Bill Landis]

They're.

[Douglas Maurice]

They're at 67, red zone touchdown percentage for the season. That's not where they want to be, they've been, they have been better of late, he says.

[Bill Landis]

They want to be a 75.

[Douglas Maurice]

75. It's a high bar. Yeah. But it's this, this was not the first game that Ohio states had red zone issues. They just mattered more.

[Bill Landis]

Yeah.

[Douglas Maurice]

In this one. Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

Okay. That was what we got from Ryan Day as we spoke to him here on Sunday in the Woody Hayes Athletic Center. Ohio State is going to start game planning for the Cotton Bowl. It is of those four corners quarterfinals. There is one game on New Year's Eve and there are three games on New Year's Day. Ohio State will be the one game on New Year's Eve. And as people know, their Georgia semifinal loss three seasons ago was on New Year's Eve. So all eyes will be on them. We will continue to Talk, Write, Pod YouTube show about this team until this thing is over. If you want to join us on substack, Bill and Doug oashu.substack.com but certainly we appreciate everybody here who is part of this audience. Any final words about what the vibes we got, the words we heard from Ryan Day on Sunday, I think just.

[Douglas Maurice]

Like very, very different from where this team was last year.

[Bill Landis]

Right.

[Douglas Maurice]

I think there's, there's a, an urge, I'm not saying it's off base to compare losing before going to the playoff last year to losing before going into the playoff this year. I think they're in a very different headspace. I think they're still, they're still confident. They're mad they didn't play their best against Indiana, but they feel like their best can get them another championship. And there's not like a whole lot of soul searching going on. It's just like they got to play better. And I think that that puts them in a much different position than they were a year ago, I think.

[Bill Landis]

And we have often referenced this like low points, right? Like low points. I think that the two low points here of the Ryan Day era would be on signing day in 2022 after they had lost to Michigan. And then it felt like on national signing day when they did not get Caleb Downs. Is there something here going on with nil that is a problem that we're not sure how to solve? And then last year after the Michigan loss, it's four straight. Is there something going on here? Is there a fundamental ingrained issue with Ohio State that we don't know how to solve? And it's a Michigan issue, but it maybe had leaked over into a big game issue Right.

[Douglas Maurice]

Yep.

[Bill Landis]

I don't think there's anything from Saturday night that would lead you to. There's something ingrained and fundamental here that Ohio State is thinking to itself today. We don't know how to solve this. And that's the difference you're talking about?

[Douglas Maurice]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's, you know, there's the wild card of what's going on with their offensive coordinator. I guess that's different than last year. But aside from that, like. And I just, you know, we'll see. I think they're equipped to manage that as best as well as you can possibly, like, expect a team to manage it so they're in a different spot. And, and.

I don't think you look at the bracket and get, get scared of anything that. Especially on the way to the national championship. And then we'll see if they can do it again.

[Bill Landis]

Yep. Georgia, Alabama. In the 2021 season, Georgia was the undefeated number one team the entire year. Lost to Georgia in the SEC title game. Rematch in the national championship game in Indianapolis. Two southern teams coming north and Georgia won the rematch.

[Douglas Maurice]

No.

You said, you said Georgia every time.

[Bill Landis]

Sorry. So 3, 2, 1, 20, 21. Georgia is the undefeated number one team in the country. Alabama beats Georgia in the SEC title game. Both teams make the national championship game in India. Indianapolis, Georgia wins the rematch. The number one undefeated team lost in the conference championship game. Met that team again in the Natty and won Ohio State. Indiana. Ohio State's undefeated number one all year. They lose to Indiana. The idea that these teams could rematch this time in the southern part of the country in Miami, not SEC country necessarily. Certainly on the table, but certainly not. Not the first time we've seen a thing like this happen. Right. And so.

Opportunity, no guarantees, but opportunity ahead. For the Ohio State Buckeyes. He's Bill Andis. I'm Douglas Maurice. We're very grateful that you guys allow us to hang out with you and talk a little football. We'll have a bunch of coverage this week. You going to Florida this week? Are you gonna be here?

[Douglas Maurice]

Not going to Florida? No.

[Bill Landis]

We got to go do our Heisman votes. We do. And we'll continue to talk about the Ohio State Buckeyes. For now, he's Bill Landis on Doug Lamorace and that was the Bill and Doug show.

[Walmart Wellness Advertiser]

I'm a high note hitting songbird, but I'm also a bird watching backpacker.

[Bill Landis]

Wood thrush, three o'. Clock.

[Walmart Wellness Advertiser]

Walmart has a wellness side too, with tons of things I need to feel good from Electrolytes to help keep me hydrated. To soothing cough drops for after every show.

[Bill Landis]

Oh, man. How about waterproof boots? Size 10?

[Walmart Wellness Advertiser]

They've got half a billion things online, on the app and in store.

[Bill Landis]

Really? Who knew? Okay. Was that you or the birds?

[Walmart Wellness Advertiser]

Check out the wellness side of Walmart today.

[Clorox Toilet Wand Advertiser]

Clorox Toilet Wand. It's all in one. Clorox Toilet Wand. It's all in one.

[Walmart Wellness Advertiser]

Hey, what does all in one mean?

[Clorox Toilet Wand Advertiser]

The caddy, the wand, the preloaded pad. There's a cleaner in there, inside the pad.

[Walmart Wellness Advertiser]

So Clorox Toilet Wand is all I need to clean a toilet?

[Clorox Toilet Wand Advertiser]

You don't need a bottle of solution.

To get into the toilet revolution. Clorox Clean Feels good.

[Walmart Wellness Advertiser]

Use as directed.