Will Jeremiah Smith break an Ohio State TD record? Buckeyes' Heisman Trophy advice: Around the Shoe

Summary

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The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk

Will Jeremiah Smith Break an Ohio State TD Record? Buckeyes' Heisman Trophy Advice: Around the Shoe

Date: November 3, 2025
Host(s): Doug Lamorises & Bill Landis (Blue Wire)
Guests: Jared Smalley & Joe Nugent (NBC4 Columbus)

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Episode Overview

This week’s “Around the Shoe” segment of The Bill and Doug Show brings together hosts Doug Lamorises and Bill Landis with NBC4 sports personalities Jared Smalley and Joe Nugent. The panel dives into Ohio State football’s hot topics: Can superstar receiver Jeremiah Smith smash the Buckeyes’ single-season touchdown record? What’s the strategic approach to Ohio State players’ Heisman campaigns? The discussion swings from statistical projections and award campaign marketing to the storytelling craft of covering Ohio State football, with a splash of TV and podcasting banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jeremiah Smith’s Run at the Ohio State TD Record

[03:14 – 10:51]

• Current Record: Terry Glenn holds the record with 17 TD catches (1995).

• Jeremiah Smith stats: 15 TDs last season, 9 already this year in just 8 games.

• Predictions:

  • Jared Smalley: Predicts 20 TDs, factoring in playoff run, defensive attention on Smith, and respect for his talent.
    “20 would be what I would guess… He is an extraordinary talent. You watch defensive coordinators… try to figure out [how to stop him], and it still doesn't work.” [03:59]

  • Joe Nugent: Conservatively projects Smith ties the record at 17, citing potential for defenses to key on him and questions around OSU’s offensive focus down the stretch. “Defenses are going to key on him… I’m going with 17.” [05:05]

  • Bill Landis: Boldest, says Smith will break the record with 21 TDs, highlighting upcoming games against weak pass defenses and OSU’s evolving pass-heavy identity. “I think we'll have a new record holder … I'll say 21 for Jeremiah Smith. … I mostly just don't think they're going to stop throwing the ball.” [06:45]

  • Doug Lamorises: On board for 20, but jokes about a theoretical 36, also wonders if a 4-TD explosion game is coming for Smith. “Are we maybe waiting for the four touchdown game, like the absolute explosion?” [09:40]

• Tactical Note: Defenses can try to scheme Smith out, but with potent options like Carnell Tate, focusing on Smith leaves others exposed. “It's a Rob Peter to pay Paul situation… If you're going to double here, you're exposed there…” – Jared [08:29]

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2. Heisman Trophy Campaign Strategy for Buckeyes

[11:36 – 22:59]

• Ohio State's Promotions:

  • OSU launched dedicated Heisman websites for QB Julian Sayin and WR Jeremiah Smith after big wins.

• Joe Nugent: Advocates that Smith is the most deserving due to the attention he draws, benefiting teammates, and overall impact: “His presence helps everybody. He's the best player on this offense. He's probably the best offensive player in the country.” [12:10]

• Bill Landis: Recommends focusing the Heisman campaign on Smith and Sayin only (not Tate), to avoid splitting the vote: “I don't think you can promote three guys for the Heisman because then you'll just dilute the vote.” [13:12]

• Jared Smalley: Emphasizes the marketing aspect of the Heisman, stories behind branding (Theismann/Heisman), and the necessity for both on-field performance and off-field promotion. “It's a hybrid award between football performance and marketing acumen… messaging works. Then I think you get a better appreciation of how these campaigns do have a slight impact on voters.” [14:30]

• Doug Lamorises: Cites the historical precedent from USC (Leinart/Bush) and Oklahoma splitting votes; suggests prioritizing Sayin this year, setting Smith up for a solo push next season. Also, unique pitch: use Smith to advocate for Carnell Tate for the Biletnikoff Award. “I think quarterbacks… it's still a little easier to vote for a quarterback. … Next year the Heisman campaign for Jeremiah Smith starts like the day after the national title game.” [17:04]

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3. Should the Heisman Be Awarded After the Playoff?

[23:59 – 28:53]

• Panel debates moving the Heisman announcement post-playoff.

  • Bill Landis: Firmly against, argues regular season awards should be distinct from postseason accolades, following other sports' models. “Every major professional sport… has separate MVPs for the regular season and the postseason… I would want to leave the door open for the remarkable seasons that happen for players who aren't on playoff teams.” [25:00]

  • Doug Lamorises: Vehemently supports moving the Heisman to include postseason results, citing confusion over what “counts” in awards versus records, logistical inertia, and the importance of truly acknowledging college football’s biggest moments. “If you're making your decision based on whether you can get the caterer to do the banquet in December… then just let someone else do the–my God, it's not a catering question.” [26:14]

  • Jared Smalley: Agrees with Landis for keeping it after the regular season, noting it allows for recognition beyond playoff teams and follows tradition in other sports. “You know, the awards in baseball are done by the 162 game resume… I see the merit of both things.” [27:12]

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4. TV Teaser Showdown: How to Hype Buckeye Fans for Purdue, UCLA, Rutgers

[30:31 – 37:27]

• Hosts and guests take turns crafting “TV teasers” to promote upcoming (less daunting) games.

  • Jared Smalley:

    “To reach the top of the Big Ten, you have to climb over the bottom. A three-week stretch where resumes need padding and injuries need avoiding. Will the future hold hype, Hoosiers and Heisman next?” [33:05]

  • Joe Nugent:

    “How the Buckeyes can build an advantage in [the Michigan] game over the next three weeks.” [33:47]

  • Bill Landis:

    “These past defenses stink. Don't you want to watch Ohio State throw it all over them?” [36:42]

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5. Storytelling as a Sports Reporter: Most Memorable Stories

[38:01 – 50:45]

• Each guest shares a favorite or most meaningful Ohio State (or otherwise) story:

  • Jared Smalley: Tells human stories behind the helmets, e.g., walk-on Nolan Botto’s outsized impact in the locker room, and the viral “Rufus vs. Brutus” story.

    “I want to know why that person is there, what circumstances allowed them… to arrive at that point.” [38:01]

  • Joe Nugent: “Big Nut” – The most visible Buckeye superfan, his scholarship fund, Buckeye giveaways, and school visits.

    “He doesn’t dress up as Big Nut only on game day. He goes out to these events. He brings Buckeyes with him… It kind of felt like Santa Claus in a way.” [42:17]

  • Bill Landis: Profile of Taylor Decker through his tattoos, and reporting on Larry Johnson’s high school head coaching roots via deep local sourcing.

    “I like going off the beaten path to find people that no one else on the beat is talking to.” [45:36]

  • Doug Lamorises: Finding unscripted, “off-TV” moments, like Urban Meyer inviting Zach Boren on the team walk; appreciating the payoff of curiosity and being present.

    “I'm always trying, like, I'm on the lookout for what is happening at any point in or around an Ohio State game that isn't on tv.” [47:34]

  • Jared Smalley’s Parting Reflection:

    “That is based on the entire reason that any of us do this for a living. And it's curiosity. I want to know why something works.” [49:15]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Jeremiah Smith’s Dominance:
  “He is an extraordinary talent… It’s just the amazing thing when you watch defensive coordinators… try to figure out…I’m not sure what you do with that.” – Jared [03:59]

• On Dividing Heisman Campaign Effort:
  “I don't think you can promote three guys for the Heisman because then you'll just dilute the vote.” – Bill [13:12]

• On the Value of Human Stories in Sports:
  “There is a human being under the helmet… If the story is simply person A is good at sports, that story isn't good enough.” – Jared [38:01]

• On Marketing the Heisman in Modern CFB:
  “It’s a hybrid award between football performance and marketing acumen.” – Jared [14:30]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Jeremiah Smith’s TD Record Debate – [03:14–10:51]
• Heisman & Awards Campaign Strategy – [11:36–22:59]
• Should the Heisman Move After the Playoff? – [23:59–28:53]
• TV Teaser Segment – [30:31–37:27]
• Personal Favorite Storytelling Moments – [38:01–50:45]

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Overall Tone & Dynamic

The episode is a blend of insider football analysis, statistical debate, and storytelling warmth, shot through with good-natured ribbing and a shared sense of fun. The guests and hosts offer both expertise and personality, making this an engaging listen for both diehard Buckeye fans and those interested in sports reporting craft.

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For More:

• Follow Jared Smalley and Joe Nugent on NBC4 (Columbus), online and on social media.
• The Bill and Doug Show drops every Monday for more Buckeye football insight and storytelling.

Transcript

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[Doug Lamoris]

Foreign welcome back to around the Shoe. Doug Lamoris and Bill Landis joined every Monday by two outstanding members of the Ohio State football media. This week, the NBC4 family is joining us here on the Bill and Doug Show. We are welcoming Jared Smalley and Joe Nugent to talk about the Buckeyes. To find sports people from NBC4. Gentlemen, thank you for being here. Jared Smalley, how long have you been around Ohio State football?

[Jared Smalley]

I'm an old man and these are one of those reminders that comes up every now and again. This is my 23rd Ohio State football season, specifically in Columbus, but I also covered the team when I was working, starting my career down in Huntington. So for a couple years there, you know, like the 2002 championship season, you know, we were from a distance, but covering Ohio State every day and so on the beat. Yeah, this is season 23, which is terrifying, but it's true.

[Doug Lamoris]

This is like one of the things you look at Jared Smalley and I'm trying to process it in my head and it's like, did you start covering the team when you were in kindergarten? Have you been cryogenically frozen in a TV studio?

[Jared Smalley]

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[Doug Lamoris]

My God.

[Bill Landis]

There you go.

[Doug Lamoris]

TV Football talk and TV Insider tips here on around the Shoe this week. So that's a long time. Jared Smalley, JOE N. How long have you been around Ohio State football?

[Joe Nugent]

Yeah. So this is my third year here in Columbus working at NBC 4 with Jared and everybody. But I used to work in Toledo, so from 07 to 20, kind of a similar situation to Jared, you know, covered from afar. Came down to the Woody a few times a year. Spent some time in Ann Arbor as well.

[Doug Lamoris]

Nice.

[Joe Nugent]

But, yeah, that was. If you add all of that, I mean, you're talking like 16 years.

[Doug Lamoris]

That's a lot, man. Now, are you. Are you a Central Ohio native, Joe?

[Joe Nugent]

So I lived in Central Ohio when I was in elementary school. I wasn't born in Central Ohio, but I actually moved from Central Ohio up to the Detroit area in third grade. So that was fun because there were not any Ohio State fans in my elementary school.

[Doug Lamoris]

A lot of fights in the playground for Joe up there. Defending. Defending Buckeye Nation. All right, we're going to have five quick hit topics about Ohio State football. Talk a little bit about doing stories and that kind of thing at the end, but we will start. Jared Smalley with you. Jeremiah Smith, the Ohio State receiver, people know who he is. He had 15 touchdown catches last season. He has nine touchdown catches in eight games this season. The Ohio State record is 17 by Terry Glenn in 1995. He had 17 touchdown catches that year. If Ohio State, like, goes to the national championship game, they're like halfway through the season right now, and he's got nine. Predict it, Jared. How many touchdown catches will Jeremiah Smith have this season?

[Jared Smalley]

I would say if they're going to be around in the playoff for a while, barring injury, 20 would be what I would guess, and I think it would probably, under ordinary circumstances, for ordinary football teams, be a higher target. But the fact that 17 is on the other side of the field, you're throwing him a few here and there, more than a few here and there. He's pretty outrageously good himself. I don't know how you could expect the number to be higher than that. I think that's a really high target as is. But it's also respect to his, you know, as you. Everyone knows who he is. He is an extraordinary talent. And it's just the amazing thing when you watch defensive coordinators like you watch this past week try to figure out, I'm gonna play quarters coverage, and I'm going to do these things to try to strategically control their explosive nature, and it still doesn't work. You know, I'm not sure what you do with that.

[Doug Lamoris]

I didn't think you were gonna say, like, 11, you know, it's like ah, two more, you know, like I'll be curious how high, how high we are willing to go here. Joe Nugent, Jared smalley's laying down 20 touchdown catches. What do you think?

[Joe Nugent]

Yeah, I'm going a little bit lower. I think it's a great question because you're looking at several different things. Things, you know, how much is Ohio State going to be willing to throw the ball the rest of the way? You know, is Julian saying going to be able to complete 80% the rest of the way and of course how many games are they going to play? But I feel like Jeremiah, you know, these next three weeks, you know, he should be able to rack up the stats in these games. But obviously everything after that, it's going to become a little bit of a bigger challenge. I mean, listen, I am curious how much Ohio State throws the ball at Michigan. You know, did we see the game plan at Wisconsin for the Michigan game? I think that is possible, but I'm going with 17 because I think, I think, I think he's. I think defenses are going to key on him. I know they're probably not going to see Texas in the playoff, but you know, defenses are going to try to take him away.

[Doug Lamoris]

And when you think about it, Joe, like these next three games and we'll have a question about that in a little bit, but Purdue, ucla, Rutgers, do you think Ohio State's offense will still pile up the stats with the starters? Is Ryan Day going to try to rest guys or dial it back a little bit? I mean we have some statistics, things that do matter to their best players here.

[Joe Nugent]

I think that they feel pretty good where they are in terms of health and rest to this point. So I do think that the starters will be out there quite a bit and they're going to try to get rolling here as they come down the stretch.

[Bill Landis]

Okay.

[Doug Lamoris]

All right, so we'll keep them out there. Bill landis, we have 20, we have 17. One breaks the record, one ties Terry Glenn's record. And just for the folks out there who don't have a stat sheet in front of them, nine touchdown catches for Jeremiah Smith so far.

[Bill Landis]

6.

[Doug Lamoris]

Seven for Carnell Tate so far nobody else on the Buckeyes has more than two. Overall, they have 24. What do you say, Bill?

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I think we'll have a new record holder by the end of the year. I'll 20ish was the number I had in my head to, to say a different number than Jared. I'll say 21 for Jeremiah Smith. Yeah, he had he had 10 in the regular season last year and then he had five in the four game postseason run. I actually think it's possible he could get to 15 before the Big Ten championship. So that's, that's four, that's four games. Ohio State, we're gonna have a Heisman question in a minute. I think is pushing the Heisman Trophy thing for, for Jeremiah Smith and Julian saying we are only beginning to see sort of the transformation of Ohio State into a pass first team, which is obviously what they're going to have to be in the postseason and what I think they will want to be when they play Michigan. So I think they're going to keep working on that over these next couple of games. And also Purdue and Rutgers in particular are the two worst past defenses Ohio State's going to play this year. So if you combine all of that light yards per attempt, combine all of that together, I mostly just don't think they're going to stop throwing the ball. And, and yes, we have seen teams scheme Jeremiah like kind of out of the game. Like he didn't have a touchdown catch against Texas earlier this year. But I'm not sure that the three teams are about to play player capable of that even if they want to. So I think he's going to rack them up these next couple of games and get to something approaching 15 before the postseason even starts and then by the end of it'll have 21.

[Doug Lamoris]

Jared, we have seen at times, whether it was, you know, Michigan last year or Texas in the semifinal, especially Texas again this year, defenses try to scheme Jeremiah out of the game. Like do you think teams can still do that or is are we reaching the point where no matter what a defense does, Ohio State will find a way and he's so good, he'll find a way.

[Jared Smalley]

There's no question defenses can do that. But then what are you doing? It's a Rob Peter to pay Paul situation because you've got Cornell on the other side. So if you're going to double here, there's. You're exposed there. Max Claire has been a glancing blow in the offensive game plan so far. I'd imagine this week in particular that might be of interest to what Ohio State wants to do. But I'm thinking just in terms of the run game, if you're going to commit all of these pieces outside the bunch formation, Ohio State still in the middle of the field is probably better than what you've got to oppose that. And that's where I think to Joe's point, Earlier about maybe the Wisconsin game plan. You know, is that what you, that's what you might be anticipating for Michigan? My, my curiosity is, I think these next three weeks are to specifically get ready for Michigan and to display the middle of the field how you're going to move people against their will. They have the people to do it. They have displayed it. It hasn't been consistent. It certainly hasn't in first halves showing up the way they'd like. But that's what I'm curious about. If you're going to commit that many pieces of your defense to people who are not in that box, it just makes you vulnerable and eventually that's going to show up.

[Doug Lamoris]

I was kind of around where Jared and Bill were too. I will say that Jeremiah smith has played 24 games in his college football career. He has 24 touchdown catches in 24 games. And it's very evenly divided. He has six games with no touchdown catches. He has 12 games with one touchdown catch. And everyone can do the math along with us. That means he has six games with two touchdown catches. I am also kind of. Are we maybe waiting for the four touchdown game like the absolute explosion, right. That you see this. Like, I think Drake London for the Atlanta Falcons had three the other night. Like we had that game the year that that Chase Young was a Heisman finalist. Didn't he have four sacks in the one game against Wisconsin? That like, you know, there's, there's just that things coalesce and all of a sudden you have that moment. So I think as consistent as he's been that he's caught at least one touchdown in 18 of the 24 games he's played in his life. I also think there's a gigantic game out there. So I'm gonna say 36.

[Jared Smalley]

Conservative.

[Doug Lamoris]

I actually like I was probably right around there. I actually, I won't reverse prices, write it and make myself go above. I'll say 20 also with Jared and we'll let Bill hang out there at 21. But, but I think there are, you know, as if you're, if you're maybe aware of like the moment when a team just makes it almost impossible for him and it opens up Carnell Tate, it opens up Max Claire, it opens up the run game. But they just say we'd rather go down that way. We're not going down letting Jeremiah Smith do craz then I still think there maybe you he can make up for it with a game unlike any he's had so far. And I do agree, Joe, like I I, I've been wondering a little bit about the idea of like, I don't know, or like, are they going to just like dial it back and like just really ramp it down for three games? But I, but I actually don't think they will because I think it's related to our next question, which is, and we'll start with you, Joe Nugent. If you were advising Ohio State about their awards campaigns, what would you suggest when it comes to promoting Jeremiah Smith, Carnell Tate and Julian saying, and we asked this, noting that Ohio State, after the Penn State win has launched official websites for both Julian Sayan and Jeremiah Smith and their Heisman campaigns. You guys are professionals, right? Joe Nugent, they're saying, Joe, what should we do to make everyone aware of our guys? What's your advice?

[Joe Nugent]

First of all, I love the fact that this is not necessarily a quarterback award year in and year. I love the fact that Travis Hunter actually won this thing a year ago. With that being said, I can totally see why Julian is currently the favorite. But my feeling is, is that Jeremiah helps everybody on the field for Ohio State. I mean, there's no question about it with the attention he attracts that Carnell, you know, his, his bed open, he's been facing one on one coverage because, you know, Jeremiah is over there attracting all that attention. I think that helps Carnell, I think it helps Julian, I think it helped Max Claire, I think it helps Brandon Ennis. I think Jeremiah's presence helps everybody. He's the best player on this offense. He's probably the best offensive player in the country like we've been talking about all season. So to me, Jeremiah is the guy. If there's a Buckeye that should win, the High is going to win it. It should be Jeremiah. But I can totally see how Julian could win it by completing 80 of passes.

[Doug Lamoris]

Interesting. Interesting. Landis, what's your advice here, brother?

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I don't want to steal your thunder dog, because I, I think we talked about this on our, on our sub stack show on Sunday and I thought you had a really good plan for specifically like the Heisman and the Blitznikov when it comes to Jeremiah and Carnell. So I'll leave that to you. But I would say that I think it just sort of makes sense what Ohio State's doing right now. I don't think you can promote three guys for the Heisman because then you'll just dilute the vote. You won't give any of your guys a chance to win. I think you can promote Julian and Jeremiah as Sort of a package deal. And we all love Carnell Tate. I know Ohio State fans love Carnell Tate. I don't know that he's famous enough to win it. If, even if you put your energy behind him right like that. That is part of this, whether you agree with it or not. Like, fame, notoriety matter. Jeremiah Smith, I think, is probably the most famous college football player right now. He's on the COVID of the video game in addition to being on television screens and commercials and all that stuff. And Julian saying by nature of the position that he plays, being the quarterback for Ohio State is only going to keep rising in his level of fame. And I just don't know if there's enough of that to go around for. For three guys to. To kind of get their fair shake. So I don't think I'd advise Ohio State to do anything really differently than it's doing already, which is to promote the quarterback and promote Jeremiah.

[Doug Lamoris]

Jared, I'm going to jump to you next because I actually do have a couple stats that I want to run through. But. But you are a man of the people. Like what. What's your advice here, brother?

[Jared Smalley]

Well, I think that's the most interesting part of what Heisman has become, is it's, it's a. It's a hybrid award between football performance and marketing acumen. And so much of it now is based on, you know, for example, the websites Ohio State introduced yesterday. You know, JJ for Heisman. And we say in Heisman and you have to create something that clicks in the promotional side to get people thinking it. So when they see great performance on the field the last month of the season, we say in Heisman, you know, the kind of like, obviously the famous story behind this is the Joe Theisman story at Notre Dame is Joe Theisman, not Joe Theisman. But he was, you know, in the campaign for the Heisman, the sports information guy, Notre Dame changed his last name with his permission to Theisman to better promote him for the Heisman. And it stuck. Also didn't work. He didn't win. But that's not the point. The point is it was a part of a marketing campaign. And so that's so much of what's interesting about this deal is, is that you have to have the football prowess, which clearly all these guys are capable of being that guy. At the end of the year, they have already displayed that capability. They're going to have big showcases coming up. It's there for them. But there's that other marketing component of it that I think you know, not even we all really understand, even though we do this every day. But when you take a wider view and you understand the power of how marketing works, how advertising works, how messaging works, then I think you get a better appreciation of how these campaigns do have a slight impact on voters when they get to that point.

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[Doug Lamoris]

So I went back and I was thinking about Matt Leinert and Reggie Bush winning the Heisman in back to back years as teammates for USC in 2004 and 2005. And I went back and I looked at this and I don't really remember this specifically, but it's interesting to me. In 2004, Matt Leiner won the Heisman. Reggie Bush, his teammate, finished fifth. Adrian Peterson and Jason White at Oklahoma, the running back and quarterback for Oklahoma finished second and third. They had almost the exact same number of votes. Adrian and Peterson and Jason White combined had 1954 Heisman points. Matt Leinert and Reggie Bush had 1922 Heisman points. The two Oklahoma guys got more, but they split it almost equally. The USC guys did not split it. It was more like 2/3, 1/3. Now I have not researched this to go back and look at what USC did or did not do that that year. The thing that's also this is gonna be a long answer that's similar is USC also had lendale White back then, right? The thunder and lightning running back thing. Lindale White had more rushing yards than Reggie Bush did in 2004. But Reggie Bush was still the Heisman guy. He had more yards from scrimmage. So I think the lesson there possibly is take care of the quarterback first and then your ridiculous player who's not a quarterback, get him the second Heisman. And so the next year, Reggie Bush finished first, Matt Leinert finished third. Matt Leinert actually threw for 500 more yards than he did when he won the Heisman. But Reggie Bush went nuts and Lindale White was still there. So overall my point of the of that is this. I think quarterbacks, I think Joe, you make an excellent point about Jeremiah Smith. Right. And that it's nice to know that it's not only a quarterback award, but it's still a little easier to vote for a quarterback. Especially, especially when there's multiple receivers. I think maybe Ohio State, I know they have both websites. I think maybe you lean into Julian saying now say that actually if there's a choice, it's actually him. And next year the Heisman campaign for Jeremiah Smith starts like the day after the national title game. And that you can go all in and that you go saying Smith and try to go back to back just like they went liner Bush and then Carnell Tates to Lindale White. He's excellent player, but he's only here this year. Next year it'll be easier, I think for Jeremiah Smith to stack up stats. And then my other point was I think you could push Carnell Tate for the Bletnikov. And my idea was the best ad you could have for Carnell Tate winning the Bletnikov is Jeremiah Smith speaking into a camera and telling you to vote for Carnell Tate. And that idea to me is Jeremiah Smith is the overall football player, but we're talking receiver. Carnell Tate as a receiver is as good as anybody in the country. And it would be sort of asking JJ to take a little bit of a back seat this year that it's sort of like when push comes to shove, maybe Ohio State tries to get sand the Heisman and Tate the Bulletnikov and next year they try to get Jeremiah Smith both. Jared, does that make sense or is that telling the best player in the country to chill out in a way that's not fair.

[Jared Smalley]

What world are we living in where this is even a discussion? What a luxury. We're talking about, oh, he could win this award, that he can win this world Farm out awards. This is insane. But it's also, that's an extraordinarily well reasoned argument about, you know, especially now in the nil era where you're only one good offer away from losing guys. So that ability to re recruit your own people with the pledge of we're committed to do this because we think you can accomplish these things here that are lifelong achievements that will go on the front page of your resume. So yeah, it's a really interesting point. I just, I wonder how that works now in the modern game that those types of awards because frankly, the Biggest award that they're looking for is a first round NFL draft, big fat contract and you know, everything else is, is gravy on that.

[Doug Lamoris]

Yeah.

[Bill Landis]

You had, you said you could give it to JJ now and then start the campaign for Jeremiah after the national title game. You can start the campaign for Jeremiah the day after Julian saying wins the Heisman. Whatever Julian does in the playoff has no bearing whatsoever on what, whether or not he wins the Heisman. And it would be, it would feel a little similar to me, like Zeke ELLIOTT, right from 14 going into 15. Now, he didn't win the Heisman Trophy in 15, but he became the Heisman front runner in the 2014 College Football Playoff. I think the story I wrote off the national championship game was not like bucks win title. It was like, he's gonna win the Heisman next year. So that is out there for Jeremiah. Or, I mean, and then whatever, if it goes the other way and Jeremiah wins this year and maybe we'll see Julian win next year. Like, whichever guy doesn't win this year, the campaign for him to win in 2026 starts with the first playoff game Ohio State plays this year.

[Doug Lamoris]

So Joe, like, you can't dispute your point about Jeremiah, right? It's indisputable. So would you say whatever I said, go Jeremiah now and then Julian can try to get it next year or like, can you come around on this?

[Joe Nugent]

Yeah. My initial thoughts were the exact opposite, but hearing you explain it, I'm like, well, that actually that does make a lot of sense because the start that Juliet is off to is a Heisman worthy season so far. And there's no question that, you know, Jeremiah will have more opportunity probably next year. So I think those are great points. It's just, it's a great question because it can go either way. And I do think my way too would also absolutely work this season.

[Doug Lamoris]

So I don't know.

[Joe Nugent]

It's a, I mean, it's definitely a great spot for this team to be in.

[Doug Lamoris]

I, I do just think that Oklahoma thing with the two guys equal and I understand why they started websites for both. I think is a little bit of a cautionary tale that if push comes to shove, if push comes to shove. Right. The weekend that people are voting, I wonder how Ohio State will handle it. And I just think possibly being like, you guys pick, they're equally, they're equally valuable, they're equally deserving. I just think like, like you maybe should be careful. Okay. It's a lot of strategy. I don't know, Michael. I'm not a crisis management specialist. I don't know what I'm talking about. Wait, this isn't about football either, Landis. I was gonna say let's talk ball again. Actually. This is, like, a thing that I'm obsessed with also, which is moving the Heisman Trophy. I just want to check on this. Ryan Day was saying some stuff about, well, you know, the Heisman. Did you get a vibe at all, Landis, from Ryan Day that maybe he was in favor of moving the Heisman Trophy to after the postseason?

[Bill Landis]

Yeah. Ryan Day is in favor of moving everything about college football to after the postseason because Ohio State wants to play for national championships and doesn't want to be at any kind of disadvantage page as it does, so.

[Doug Lamoris]

Okay, but, Joe, did you, like. Did you hear some of the stuff, like, vibes here? Like, hey, maybe Ryan Day's up for that? I. Maybe I imagined it because it's a thing that I'm obsessed with, but I thought I heard it from Ryan, too.

[Joe Nugent]

Yeah, I don't specifically remember him saying that, but he definitely could have. I'll say this. I mean, I'm in favor of it. That's for sure. I think it's. I mean, the postseason should matter. My only hesitation would be that if it is after the season, it might basically turn into the National Championship MVP award versus, you know, like, last year where Travis Hunter won it, you know, on a team that did not playoff. You know, that's going to be rare, probably.

[Doug Lamoris]

Yeah. Okay. All right. So land a scale of 1 to 10. How in favor are you of the idea of move the Heisman to the end of the season? One is I'm totally against it. Ten is I'm totally for it.

[Bill Landis]

I don't want to disappoint you, but I'm like, a one. I'm not really in favor of it. Every major professional sport in North America has separate MVPs for the regular season and the postseason. I think that works. Now, oftentimes, the player who wins the regular season MVP is on a team that will play in the postseason, but it doesn't always happen. And I would want to leave the door open for the remarkable seasons that happen for players who aren't on playoff teams. Because the second you move the Heisman to after the College Football Playoff, it is going to go to a player who's in the playoff and probably a player who's in the national championship. And that won't always be wrong, but it could be wrong sometimes. And so much of the sport is already tied up in the playoff in a way that, like, I think is fine, but can become bad, you know, depending on how far you want to take it. And I wouldn't want the Heisman Trophy, which I think you and I agree is. Is maybe the coolest individual award in sports in this country, to kind of get lost in that. So I am okay with where it is right now being more of a regular season award. I would like to see the CFP institute a postseason MPP award, though.

[Doug Lamoris]

I think that would make sense. Part of my issue with this for college football is like, for instance, we're talking about Jeremiah Smith breaking Terry Glenn's record, and all the games count. It's not like, well, it's a regular season record. It's like, so Jeremiah Smith's gonna play four more games than Terry Glenn. But we don't differentiate. It's like, so is it all one season or is it not? Right? So I, I do think there's some confusion with college football there. I'm a 10. I've. I've yelled at the guy at the Heisman stuff and said, move it. And he said, we have a banquet. It's hard to move the banquet. And I said, if you're making your decision based on whether you can get the caterer to do the banquet in December or it's harder to do in January, then just let someone else do the. My God, it's not a catering question. It's a college football question. If you have a real reasoning for it, like Bill, fine. If it's hard to book the event space in late January, my God, just, just give up. 10. Jared Smalley, do you want to move it to after this postseason or.

[Jared Smalley]

No, Doug, I mean, come on, it's the Marriott marquee a couple weeks before Christmas. I mean, where do you want. Where else in the world would you rather be? Been right there eating, you know, catered chicken. I am actually with Bill for the same reason, because I, I was when we were talking before. But what we're going to talk about today, I, I had a. Really trying to think about how the other leagues do it. You're exactly right. NFL is done by regular season. NBA is done by regular season. You know, the, the awards in baseball are done by the 162 game resume. So I, I see the merit of both things. And so I think it's almost like you're creating a second award. But to Bill's point, especially if there's an extraordinary Boise State running back like we saw last year, who, who, who runs for 8, 000 yards and scores 95 touchdowns. But his team loses four games. Is that kid not the best player? And you know that it's just every year is going to be a unique set of metrics that we can't apply one set of standards to. And that's what I'm getting at. I just think that this, doing it this way provides the opportunity for the entire country. You know, earlier this year I was at Navy and I saw Blake Horvath, the quarterback who was actually from Columbus. And you know, obviously this past weekend they lost their game. But I was thinking about a guy like Blake Horvath who is completely off of the radar. There was a Horvath for Heisman campaign going on over there because he's due to break every Navy record if they go to Notre Dame and win. You know, there were showcase opportunities, but his team might not be in the playoffs. So again, like, I don't love that the Heisman is when it is, but I understand why it is where it is.

[Doug Lamoris]

Okay? All right. Question number four. Question number four here on around the Shoe. By the way, I'm wearing my Roback quarter zip. How about this?

[Jared Smalley]

Look at you.

[Doug Lamoris]

Come on. I look like a TV boy in this. Come on.

[Jared Smalley]

Hey, you know what TV I forgot you guys are. You guys work with Roback. I. I should have. I got a ton of Roback gear. I should have worn a hoodie or at least something. My bad, man.

[Doug Lamoris]

Everybody loves roback. R H O-B-A C K dot com. Go there, check out their game day collection. Because then you get like this thing, this is just gray with some blue trim. But then you can get one that like has like your favorite team, like a stripe or a little logo. It's like, it's still like classy, but it represents your team. And if you want to go do that, 20% off your first order. Thanks to us. B A D, 20 is the code. Bad 20 is the code. 20% off your first order. Be like me. And if not like me, be like Jared Smalley. Okay?

[Jared Smalley]

Absolutely, man. Let's do it.

[Doug Lamoris]

Who knew?

[Jared Smalley]

Jared Smaller, by the way. Great caller.

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[Doug Lamoris]

Question number four. I'm gonna be a TV boy here. I did take TV classes in college. I thought once upon a time I was gonna be a T person. And then they said, get out. We don't want your face. Go write stories. And then look at where we are. Look at where we are. I came back and you have to look at my face. Number four, give your best TV teaser to get fans fired up for this next three game stretch for Ohio State against Purdue, UCLA and Rutgers. So it's like, okay, like, we understand they're not playing the top of the big ten, but like, do you guys get mad? Everybody makes kind of like does these jokes on TV now. It's like the fake teasers. Like, what. What's in your refrigerator that's going to murder you next on this, right? Do you guys get offended by that? Joe, is that offensive to make a TV show like that or is it okay?

[Joe Nugent]

Yeah, usually I don't take that path. Normally something a little more realistic is the. Is the usual route.

[Doug Lamoris]

Okay, Jared, should we. Should we discontinue this segment? Am I offending TV people yourself, Joe? Okay.

[Jared Smalley]

While your next plate of shrimp could be your last.

[Doug Lamoris]

Yeah, we're getting people fired up for Ohio State games against Purdue, UCLA and Rutgers. We got to do that.

[Jared Smalley]

Well, you know what?

[Doug Lamoris]

You.

[Jared Smalley]

So the television teaser. So I'm not, you know, Joe and I think, you know, we kind of live in a very similar world on this front. The whole thing on a television tease is you're making an implicit promise to the audience when you come back, you will receive this. So you have to be a little bit specific. You have to give a specific thing that when you come back from break, you are getting this. And so you see a lot now in games. You're watching games live. You'll see when you come back. It's Julian saying in the Ohio State offense, you know, instead of we'll be right back, or after a word from Mylanta, it's like, I'm gonna deliver a very specific thing. And that's where I think, you know, where we kind of try to focus it so that we're not just promising air, we're promising something you will learn when you come back.

[Doug Lamoris]

Okay, all right, I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna try this. Okay? Do it to get people by tvts, to get people excited for Ohio State's next three games. Last year coming up next. Last year, Ohio State cracked his helmet When Nico Iamaliava comes into the shoe, what will the Buckeyes crack next? That's my tease for Ohio State. Ucla, Right.

[Jared Smalley]

Okay.

[Doug Lamoris]

All right. Or you could just say Ohio State's favored by 31. Why should you watch? But that's not a good tease. That's not a good.

[Jared Smalley]

That's not a good tease. No.

[Doug Lamoris]

Sorry, Jared. Like, give us a tease. Get people.

[Bill Landis]

I wrote you one.

[Jared Smalley]

Okay, all right, I wrote you one. Here you go. To reach the top of the Big Ten, you have to climb over the bottom. A three week stretch where resumes need padding and injuries need avoiding. Will the future hold hype, Hoosiers and Heisman next?

[Bill Landis]

That's why he's the best. That's why he's the best.

[Doug Lamoris]

What a pro. You got hype, Hoosiers and Heisman in there. You didn't even say Rutgers at all.

[Jared Smalley]

Operate in the rule of three. We like alliteration and we want to deliver a specific thing.

[Doug Lamoris]

Climb over the bottom. Okay. All right. Now we're getting the vibe. We're getting the vibe. Joe, do you have like a. Do you got a TV tease for us to get fired up?

[Joe Nugent]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mine's more little football field, but I've got less than a month out from Ann Arbor. How the Buckeyes can build an advantage in that game over the next three weeks. So. Yeah, what's coming?

[Jared Smalley]

Nailed it.

[Doug Lamoris]

Come on. Because that's actually like, you know, you know this, Joe. That's where Ohio State's fans heads are in the Michigan game already. So you throw that bait out there and like they've got to use these three games. That, that's the, that's the, the best way to get Ohio State fans excited for this is to remind them that Michigan's looming. Right.

[Joe Nugent]

For sure. And, and I think also, listen, obviously Ohio State got it in its own way last year. I think what they're doing so far this year is building a mental advantage for this game. And I think the important thing going into that actual game is going to. They need to look at it as like this is we need to keep the previous 11 games in mind against these other teams and not the previous four games in mind against the Wolverines. Right. They need to play this as the 12th game this season instead of, you know, a run of five, the last five against Michigan. So that's why I think these next three games can be very important because they can continue to build an advantage for themselves going into the Michigan game.

[Doug Lamoris]

No, that's good. Like to Find that balance of, like, it. It's there, but, like, you want to acknowledge it but not be burdened by it. See, like this. Your crisis management here. As you're teasing people, Landis, give us a tease. We know. Did you almost go into tv, Landis, or.

[Bill Landis]

No, no, no, no, no, no. I thought about radio, but never tv. I know what I look like.

[Doug Lamoris]

You do have a. But you have a very. You have a nice timber. TV boys. Doesn't he have a nice timber to his voice?

[Jared Smalley]

I'll tell you what. Bill is a podcast legend because he commands the audience with his. His soothe baritone. You know, this. This. But I mean, he. He backs it up with the. With the real deal. But, yeah, the entry level, the voice is extraordinary.

[Bill Landis]

I appreciate that. Thank you.

[Doug Lamoris]

When you podcast with Bill, then I sound like Mickey Mouse all the time. I don't have a timber.

[Jared Smalley]

Well, Doug, I mean, you know, it depends because ordinarily your voice is fantastic. But then when you go into, you know, we gotta. We gotta punch down at the south a little bit, swing our sword, and you know what. What's your impression of. Of Kirby smart or of. Of, like, what. What's your. Hunker down.

[Doug Lamoris]

Don't. Don't drive fast, fellas. No, I don't know. I don't. I gotta work on my Kirby. I just have a hat. I have a hat, but I don't really have a voice for Kirby. I'll work on it.

[Jared Smalley]

Okay.

[Doug Lamoris]

Work on it.

[Bill Landis]

All right.

[Jared Smalley]

Scott Van Pelt, his aggression. Oh, yeah, Aggression.

[Doug Lamoris]

Aggression behind the wheel. Bill Landis, what do you got for a team?

[Bill Landis]

Yeah, I don't have anything nearly as good as these other two guys. And I sort of alluded to mine. I think mine would be something along the lines of, like, these past defenses stink. Don't you want to watch Ohio State throw it all over them?

[Doug Lamoris]

Promise.

[Jared Smalley]

You made a promise. Perfect.

[Doug Lamoris]

That was good because, like, Joe was smart. Joe kind of, like, avoided the stink and just focused on Michigan. But Bill, you leaned right into the stink and just said, stink can be fun, too.

[Bill Landis]

Stink can be fun. I also think this. This is not. You can't apply this to the next game against Purdue, obviously, because it's on the road. But there are only two more chances to see Sonny Styles, Caleb Downs, probably Arvel Reese, Carnell Tate, Kaden Curry, guys like that play in the shoe. So I think you can go that route, too.

[Doug Lamoris]

Yeah, that's always compelling. That's the thing about college football, that everything is fleeting and that you really can lean into that you know. All right, last thing, we're going to get, like, a little off the football topic a little bit. You guys are storytellers. We're storytellers. I just like talking about this sometimes because I think for all of us, sometimes there are things that just stick with you. So is there an Ohio State story? Or actually, maybe it's not an Ohio State story. Just like, what's. Jared, what's a story that you've told over the years that really has stuck with you, that you really enjoyed telling the story of that, that thing or that person?

[Jared Smalley]

I think the topic of that is just really, it gets into why I want, why I do this for a living. Because I, you know, I grew up. My parents are both teachers. My dad was a coach. So I grew up around football, played for my dad. And when I got into broadcasting, when I went to Marshall and I decided this is the absolute thing I'm going to do, the thing that really stuck with me is the fact that I was teammates with people, not robots, and I wanted to tell the story of human beings, not robots. That same principle you can apply to everything that you do in the, in the entire spectrum of, of broadcasting. Obviously, we, we've chosen sports here. I, I now venture out and do some other things, and I'm. I'm happy to do those other things because they interest me. But the thing, the, the heart of the matter is there is a human being under the helmet. That human being has a story. If the story is simply person A is good at sports, that story isn't good enough. I want to know why that person is there, what circumstances allowed them to arrive at that point. And I want them to express to people humanity, because that's what appeals to everybody. Grandparents and kids, everyone in between can relate to a human being as opposed to an athletic robot. That's the part that I've always enjoyed. And so this year, for example, just doing. On the Ohio State beat, you know, I do the big Ohio football show every Friday night. It's basically an Ohio State show. And in that show, I love to do things that nobody would think of because I now have the. Joe's doing the work every day. He's doing the sportscast every day, and he's doing, you know, the traveling and all that stuff. And I now have a chance to take a very wide view of the program that I've followed for a long time and find things that I don't know and go find the answer to that thing, because I think that's compelling and Interesting to the audience. I'll give you a quick example. Last week we aired a story about Nolan Botto. Nolan botto is number 23 on the Ohio State roster. He is a walk on. He is perhaps best known as Carnell Tate's buddy from high school. When Cardell came from Maris, obviously he went to IMG before, but he was originally at Maris in Chicago. Nolan Botto was his best friend at school. When Cornell came to Ohio State, Nolan wanted to walk on and come with him. Nolan was a good player. He is now at Ohio State. One of the guys who wears a vest on the sideline and signals in plays to the offense. But in the Ohio State student. In his bio on the Ohio State website, there's a nugget that Jerry Emig from the sports information team wrote about Nolan Botto. And it says that 47 of his teammates in an informal poll, answered Botto when asked, who do you hang around with? I was like, well, why? Why would a walk on who's never caught a ball, who's never played, who's never seen the field be so popular? And that's what I set out to do last week. That story now has a million views on Facebook.

[Doug Lamoris]

What?

[Jared Smalley]

Wow. A million. And so because.

[Doug Lamoris]

Is that all Russian robots or is that real people? I.

[Jared Smalley]

They are absolutely not all people. We can guarantee you those are not people.

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[Jared Smalley]

But my point is there is a thirst for that out there in the community. They want to know more about these people. And of course, earlier this year, the Rufus vs Brutus story was just an insane venture into. You ever want to know what happened really on this stupid thing? Well, I'll give you seven minutes on the stupidest thing you've ever seen. And it's easily the most fun I've ever had. Diving into something that's just a legendary moment, that's what I do this job for. I love to tell people something that they'll find interesting. And the vehicle, the television part of it, the fact that there's a visual medium to it and you can. You can paint a picture for people of who these people are as human beings. It's the part that I'll never get sick of.

[Doug Lamoris]

Nice. I got a million. If I got 30. If I got 30 views on Facebook. Joe Nugent, you've been doing this for a while. What's the story that's really stuck with you?

[Joe Nugent]

Yeah, I did one on Big Nut. I was curious to learn more about him. Obviously, he's probably the most visible Ohio.

[Doug Lamoris]

State fan out there.

[Joe Nugent]

It's like, well, what. What's going on here?

[Doug Lamoris]

You know, to.

[Joe Nugent]

To the same way that Jared explains it, like, there. There's definitely a story here. So I went to his house. I also went over there on a day where he was actually doing an event where he went to an elementary school. And, you know, it was really interesting because what I found out about this guy is that he started a scholarship fund to try to pay forward and play a positive role in what Ohio State is and help out kids who want to go to Ohio State. But also, he loves going to churches and schools and all these places.

[Doug Lamoris]

He's.

[Joe Nugent]

You know, he doesn't dress up as Big Nut, only on game day. He goes out to these events. He brings Buckeyes with him. It kind of felt like Santa Claus in a way, because these kids are.

[Doug Lamoris]

All excited to see this big guy.

[Joe Nugent]

And, you know, he gives them Buckeyes. You know, he has a present for them. And, yeah, it was just really neat to get to know him. Also, at his house, in his garage, he literally has thousands of Buckeyes. Like, it is amazing, the collection that he has to allow him to, you know, give them out to people year round. And one other part about this is I did that story leading up to a Michigan game, and I asked him, I was like, you know, I know you like food and all, so are there any restaurants in Ann Arbor that you like to go to? And, you know, he took the Woody Hayes approach, and he's like, listen, man, I get in and I get out. I don't go to any restaurant.

[Doug Lamoris]

Big. Big Nut don't chow in Ann Arbor, baby.

[Jared Smalley]

That's right.

[Doug Lamoris]

I don't want to. I don't want to give it away. Is his name Big Nut, or does he have a. Another name? Yeah, okay. Santa Claus. Yeah. I thought maybe would have changed the Big Nut by now. Nice. The man behind the nut. How about you? You ever do any good stories?

[Bill Landis]

I've done stories that I like. Whether or not people thought they were good, I guess, is up for some debate. I still think one of my favorites I've done was actually my first year on the beat in the playoff run. I, like, spent some time with Taylor Decker and, like, wrote a story about. It was basically like a profile of Taylor Decker, but I sort of wrote it through. He was covered in tattoos, and I just wrote it through, like, the meaning of all his tattoos and what they meant, meant to him. And I'm a man with tattoos, some of which have meaning, some. Many of them don't. But his Were like, you know, he has. He had a bunch of them and they were all like, they all met something. And to like, kind of get to know somebody through that was pretty cool. I was appreciative that he, like, kind of allowed me to do that because some people consider, you know, body art is like a pretty, like, personal, intimate thing that maybe you don't want to talk about, but. But he did, so that one comes to mind. And then there's one other one I was thinking about too, because I just kind of like. Like, I don't think it was like the greatest story in the world, but I sort of like hunting down something that no one else is doing, especially on a beat that is like, super competitive. When Larry Johnson had to be the interim head coach in 2020 because Ryan Day got Covid, I wrote a story about the last time that Larry Johnson was a head coach, which was like 35 years prior, when he was a high school coach in, in Maryland. But the thing of it was, I had no idea whether or not there was going to be anybody around that at those schools who knew Larry. So I was just kind of like cold emailing people like, hey, do you know Larry Johnson? Or do you know anybody who might know Larry Johnson? And I was able to get in touch with like three or four people, I think, who did and wrote what I thought was like a pretty good story. I talked to Larry Ford a little bit, but he was obviously busy kind of doing his thing, trying to get the team ready. But I like going off the beaten path to find people that no one else on the beat is talking to. I think is pretty fun.

[Doug Lamoris]

Yeah, that's very. I like. I like what you guys are saying, like bringing that kind of different thing. One time I wrote a story about her Kirk variant should be fired. That was really cool.

[Bill Landis]

I thought you were going to say the time you wrote about Shelly Meyer's hair catching on fire and it got 9 billion page views.

[Doug Lamoris]

Yeah, I come at. I come at this, like, a little different way from you guys. Like, you're telling, like, human stories, and I'm just like, writing about weird stuff and ripping people. But.

[Jared Smalley]

But, Bill, the one thing that you do extraordinarily well is when you're at a news conference, you ask the question that no one else asks, and you frame it in a way that it's conversational, which is very friendly to the broadcast people because, you know, sometimes the best answer is a one or two word answer. And that's great, but that doesn't necessarily work. Great for broadcast, but you ask questions that are so conversational that lead to those unique angles that so few people know about. You're like, exceptional at it.

[Bill Landis]

I appreciate that. Sometimes I think to myself as I'm asking the question, I'm speaking too much, but I'm glad.

[Doug Lamoris]

No, no, I think that, you know, you're right, Landis. You're not, though. You're not. Don't think that. Don't think that to yourself. You're not.

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[Doug Lamoris]

I, after a career of like standing around and waiting for people and just like, I feel like I covered Major League baseball for four years and you would just go to these ridiculous. You drive three hours, like go to a spring training game where nothing was happening, but you just had to be there in case something happened. So after a career of that, I always appreciate the moments where it's like, well, I'll go and stand here and see if something happens. And like the 99% of the time that nothing happens one time, I guess it was maybe it's a 2013 opener. It was the year after Zach Bourne had graduated and I would, I was out and I was like watching the, the walk into the stadium, right? Like out of the skull session and, and into Ohio Stadium. And Urban Meyer was making the walk with the team and Zach Bourne was standing along the ropes like with the fans. And Urban Meyer saw him and like stopped and like grabbed Zach Bourne and said like, come in here and walk with us. That like, even though you're no on the team, you're still part of this. And I want, I want you with us. And like I saw it, I was thought because I was there hanging around, just wait to see if something happened. And then I talked to Zach about it. I grabbed Urban Meyer after the post game news conference and asked him, like, why did you grab Zach Bourne? And so I got to write like, especially like you TV people. TV sees everything. So I'm always trying, like, I'm on the lookout for like what is happening at any point in or around an Ohio State game that isn't on tv. Right. And so I like, in that moment, like finding a. Like seeing a little moment and then asking people about the moment that nobody else saw and then writing a story about that. It's like, yeah, that's why I've been wasted hundreds of hours in my life standing around when nothing happened.

[Jared Smalley]

But that is based on the entire reason that any of us do this for a living. And it's curiosity. I want to know why something works. I'll give you a quick example that. And this is actually from before. Just before this, my last year in what Joe's job is now, we had a sports reporter with us named Justin Holbrock who still lives here in town. And there is. You mentioned that the team walkover. When the team walks through the. The gate at the stadium and they go down the tunnel before they do, there is a red coat there, a man to Joe's story there about Buckeye, the big nut with his collection of Buckeyes. This guy has a Buckeye tree. His dad had the same job before him at Ohio Stadium, where his dad would every game hand a Buckeye to every individual player and coach. Everybody who goes down that ramp gets a Buckeye from him. His dad did it for decades. When he died, his son took over that spot and does the same thing. And it was all based on Justin going up and asking this guy, hey, like, what do you do? Like, what's this about? And it led to one of the most interesting stories we've done. Just a great reminder of the traditional, the familial, the. The heritage in this program that is unique even in a sport that's based on that. All across the country here, it's just a little bit different. And it's just one of those reminders how different it can be.

[Doug Lamoris]

Look at that. Just a bunch of storytellers sitting around, swapping. It's great to do it all day. We could do it all day, but people have to go about their lives. That would be too long around the shoe. Joe Nugent, thank you for joining us. Where can the people find you? Where can they watch you? Where can they say, man, I love this guy. I want more Joe Nugent in my life?

[Joe Nugent]

Yeah, definitely. On NBC, 4, 5, 6, and 11 throughout the week. Also on Twitter at. At Joe Nuge and Facebook as well. So, yeah, pretty much everywhere, I would say.

[Doug Lamoris]

Nice. Yeah, no, he's everywhere. You're. You're on at 5, 6, and 11.

[Jared Smalley]

Yeah.

[Joe Nugent]

Every day. Well, Tuesday through Saturday.

[Doug Lamoris]

Not a lot of newscasts, brother.

[Jared Smalley]

That's.

[Doug Lamoris]

That's a lot of newscasts. I appreciate. We respect the grind. Respect the grind. My friend Jared Smalley. You're just on Facebook.

[Jared Smalley]

I'm just on the Internet, man.

[Bill Landis]

Just.

[Jared Smalley]

Just a big Internet exclusive. First of all, I'll say this about Joe. Joe replaced me in my role as sports director there. I had the role for 17 years. I was in the department a couple years before that. Joe has been a sensational addition to our station. And just. He knows what this is about. He grew up in it. You know, obviously he understands it deeply. Joe's doing a tremendous job. And it's. Obviously, it's like, I get to be like. Even though Joe and I aren't that all that different in age, but I get, I get to feel like a proud dad, you know, watching, you know, like what he and the team do now, It's. It's like a really cool thing to be a part of that. What I do now, I anchor our four and five o' clock news every day at NBC4, which I'm absolutely delighted by. I have a lot of interests other than sports, and it's been a great way to, to tap into that and to. To grow myself as a storyteller, to do things that are unique, that are challenging. There was a point when I got, you know, I think Doug, you and I talked about this. It's like there is a point when you get so far into your career where you've done all the stories, you've been to all the stadiums, you've seen all the games, but that thing in your brain can't be squashed. That curiosity, that natural explain why this thing works. You just change the subject matter and you're the same storyteller. So that's what I've really embraced about my new role. I love it. I work with great people. Jennifer Bullock, my co anchor, is awesome. And we both, we bond over a lot of things that we've, you know, been through in life. And she's a great partner in it. And then for fun, on Friday nights, I host a big Ohio football show, which is our weekly Ohio State show. It airs at 7:30 every Friday night before Ohio State games. Chimney Checkwa is our analyst, former Buckeye American, who is an awesome dude and a very, very good analyst. We're very lucky to have him as a part of our coverage. So we do that every week. And that just sort of. Of adds a little, you know, accent on what Joe and his team do.

[Doug Lamoris]

I like, Jared, that you and I kind of reached that point in our career. We said, like, man, we've really told a lot of sports stories. What should we do now? And you decided to go into news and tell stories that really matter in people's lives. And I bought a sword.

[Jared Smalley]

That's a heck of a sword, though. Did you try to do that?

[Bill Landis]

You bought two swords.

[Doug Lamoris]

That's true. I did. I bought two swords, remember, from last.

[Jared Smalley]

Did you, did you try to take it through tsa?

[Doug Lamoris]

I didn't try to take it through tsa. I tried to bring it into the stadium for the Ohio State national championship celebration. Like, four cops stared at me and said, put your swords in your car.

[Jared Smalley]

So no one else tried to bring a sword in that night?

[Doug Lamoris]

No. No.

[Jared Smalley]

Anyway, got that going for you.

[Doug Lamoris]

Gentlemen, thank you so much for joining us here on around the Shoe. Make sure you guys find Jared Smalley. Find Joe Nugent at NBC4 in Columbus. Follow their coverage, watch their shows. You really, you can't turn on your TV and not have one of their faces popping up in front of you. So that's a wonderful thing. We appreciate you guys being here every week for around the Shoe. Every Monday, the Bill and Doug Show. Like, subscribe tell a friend for now for Jared Smalley, for Joe Nugent, for Bill Landis, I'm Doug Lee Maurice. And that was around the Shoe on the Bill and Doug Show.

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