← The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
The Bill and Doug Show: Ohio State Football Talk
Will Ohio State basketball make the NCAA Tournament? Can Buckeyes find a big win? Around the Schott
00:59:44
It's a detour toward basketball as Around the Shoe becomes Around the Schott this week. Joining Bill Landis to discuss Ohio State basketball (Doug is just hosting) are two outstanding reporters who cover OSU hoops: Adam Jardy of The Columbus Dispatch and Connor Lemons of Land-Grant Holy Land.
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- [00:01]
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- [00:42]
Doug Lay Maurice
Great.
- [00:43]
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- [00:52]
Doug Lay Maurice
Welcome back to the Bill and Doug show for around the Shot Today. Doug Lay, Maurice and Bill Landis is always joined by two fantastic members of the Ohio State beat. But Landis, I. I bet. I bet people didn't know that we could go around more than one building.
- [01:11]
Bill Landis
You can. And in fact, it's easier to go around the shot because it's all connected. There's no. There's no gaps like there are in the shoe.
- [01:18]
Doug Lay Maurice
Oh, yeah. That would be dangerous to have a gap in a basketball arena. I think we're talking hoops. We're talking Ohio State basketball. It's that time of year. Ohio State with a big game on Super Bowl Sunday that we'll talk about a little bit. But we're joined by two fantastic experts. Adam Jardi of the Columbus Dispatch and Connor Lemons of Land Grant. Holy Land. Adam Jardy, how long have you been covering Ohio State basketball? Thanks for your time, brother.
- [01:45]
Adam Jardy
Yeah, thanks for having me, guys. Well, this is my 11th season with the Dispatch, but my first. Yeah, I know, but my. My time covering the program goes back. I started at the 0506 season was the first time I covered any hoops. So it's been. I've gotten to see some. Some really great highs for the program and some difficult stretches of basketball. So it's been. It's been a few minutes, but happy to be here.
- [02:11]
Doug Lay Maurice
The. The highs. That was. The highs were back then, and the more difficult, the more difficult, but there's still. There's still an opportunity for highs. Connor Lemonds, how long have you been around the Bas Buckeyes, hanging out there at Land Grant, Holy Land?
- [02:27]
Connor Lemons
I've been with land Grant since 2019. I started covering the men's hoops team during the 21, 22 seasons. This is my fifth year covering in person and yeah, similar. I've been to what, two NCAA tournament games, I think in five years. One maybe Adam.
- [02:43]
Adam Jardy
So.
- [02:44]
Doug Lay Maurice
Okay, okay. Landis, how long have you been around the basketball Buckeyes?
- [02:51]
Bill Landis
I became the, the beat writer for cleveland.com the year after D' Angelo Russell. So was that 15, 16. Ari got the Angela Russell year. Yeah. Mari got the Russell year when they went to the tournament. And then I got the last two years of Thad and then all the Holtman era. And then it was like kind of off and on from there. So I have not been covering them consistently that entire time, but that's when I started covering them.
- [03:14]
Adam Jardy
Yeah.
- [03:14]
Bill Landis
15, 16. Yeah, yeah.
- [03:16]
Doug Lay Maurice
Okay. And I'm not going to talk about basketball much because I don't really know about it anymore. If there are David Lighty questions, I will chime in. We'll start with coming off this Ohio State basketball loss to Michigan on Sunday. I wrote it down, fellas, because I'm a professional. 15, 8, 7 and 6 in the Big Ten and a three way tie for ninth. Jordy, does that sound right to you? Is that the correct record of the team?
- [03:39]
Adam Jardy
Yeah, as far as I know. I'm going to trust you on that one.
- [03:43]
Doug Lay Maurice
First question, what is their record around the shot? What does everybody know? Record of the team that we're talking about seems like firmly on the bubble at this point for NCAA tournament chances. When you look at things right, is it some, some maybe just out, some maybe just in. I think a lot of projections. Maybe 11 Big Ten teams have a chance to, to make the tournament because of the depth of that league and they're like kind of like the 11th right now. So our question, Adam, is this. What would you say is the percent chance that Ohio State basketball is going to wind up in the NCAA tournament?
- [04:23]
Adam Jardy
I'll put it at 66.7%. I, I think they're, it's about two thirds. Two thirds, that's all. That's as far as my math skills go. They're. They continue to beat the teams that they're supposed to beat and they lose to the teams that they're really not supposed to be. And the way the schedule plays out going forward, I think they will continue to beat the teams that they should beat. They're going to rack up enough wins that that should put them right in contention and then they've got to beat one or two teams that they haven't beaten that kind of team. Yet this season. So I think. I think they're good enough to do that. I think the schedule sets up to put them in position to still do all of those things, but I do think, like, there's a chance they. They could fall short because they've just not been able to get that signature win yet.
- [05:10]
Doug Lay Maurice
Yes. All right. Two thirds, 66.7. Connor, what's your number?
- [05:14]
Connor Lemons
I'm just off that. I'm at 60%. Everything that Adam said, I think is. Is correct. I think that the schedule puts them in a position where they don't need to make some crazy run or some crazy push to make it. They have to take care of business against the teams like he said, that they're expected to, and they're going to have to pick off, like, one of those big Purdue, Michigan states, something like that. Maybe I'm a little bit lower than Adam, although 60 still seems pretty good. Their defense lately concerns me a little bit that they could perform poor enough defensively in one of those games where they're supposed to take care of business that if they drop like a Penn State road game or like Wednesday against usc, that puts you in a sticky spot.
- [06:00]
Doug Lay Maurice
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Landis, what's your number?
- [06:04]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I'm. I'm lower. I think you should. People listening should. Should trust what these guys say more than me because they've been around the team all year and have a better feel for it than I do.
- [06:14]
Adam Jardy
But.
- [06:15]
Bill Landis
I'm at like 45 because I don't. I don't know that I am super confident in their ability to kind of steal the one game that I think they need to steal to get there. I was. I was looking through a. A thing CBS Sports did last year when UNC got into the tournament, and everyone was mad because UNC was 1 in 12 and their quadrant one games and they ranked the worst quadrant one resumes to make the tournament. Since we started doing tournament selection this way, and everyone they ranked had at least a Quadrant one win. And I don't know that Ohio State's gonna have one. They're owing seven right now. There are four left on the schedule. I. I mean, I guess there's like an outside chance that the UCLA win could become that, but they still. UCLA still to climb, like, eight spots to become quadrant one, and UCLA's next three games are against Michigan, Michigan State, and Illinois. That doesn't seem like it's going to happen. So I just. Maybe I'm being prisoner of the moment because I was at that game on Sunday when They just got, in my opinion, like, run off the floor by Michigan, which might be the best team in the country, but I don't know that I feel great about Ohio State beating Virginia, Michigan State, Iowa or Purdue, or in. In lieu of that, stringing together a couple of neutral site wins in Chicago in the Big Ten tournament, that would qualify as quadrant one wins too. So I. I don't know that, like, sheer win accumulation, which would, like, in Ohio State's case, could be like 20, 21 wins without a quadrant one win is going to be enough to get them there.
- [07:45]
Adam Jardy
So they have been close. They've had a quad one win for part of the season. And oddly enough, it's. It's the win at Northwestern that had aged well, Even though Northwestern's 10 and 14 and has they've fallen off significantly. You know, the. Since the Big Ten play started, I think they're 2 and 11 in the league right now. So, like, not great. But that, that win has aged well. And so I do think there's a chance they could back their way into a Quad 1 win if Northwestern's able to, like, beat, like, I think they got Maryland and Oregon and like Minnesota, like, if Northwestern is able to win a few of those. And this doesn't change, like, the body of work, but it does change how the body work ends up getting sorted.
- [08:27]
Bill Landis
Because we have to get to 75, right, for that to be.
- [08:30]
Adam Jardy
I believe so, yeah.
- [08:33]
Bill Landis
79 right now.
- [08:33]
Adam Jardy
Yeah. Yeah.
- [08:34]
Doug Lay Maurice
So. So when you look at them. Oh, and seven and quad one, four and one in quad two. Bill, as you said, four quad one games left of the remaining eight on the schedule, plus whatever happens at the Big Ten tournament. Adam and Connor, like, you guys talked about, like, needing to get knock off one of these big ones. Like, Connor, do you. Is it, like, is one quad one win? Would that be enough? Bill, you were talking about, like, that UNC record one and 12 or whatever it was. Do we think Connor, one quad one win would get them there? Do they have to get two? What's the number?
- [09:06]
Connor Lemons
It's more in the context of what's around them. I think if you look at, like, the bracket matrix all year long, which I'm a. I'm sick in the head. I've been looking at the bracket matrix, like, every single day since Christmas. And without a quad, like, they've been hovering in that, like, high 11 seed. Like, really, they've been bouncing back and forth from. Are you an 11 seed who has to play in Dayton or are you the 11 seed that doesn't have to play in Dayton for like a month now. And so I think it's more in the context of who they're fighting for for those spots. And so if they were able to grab a win over Purdue, which. Which Jake Diebler's 2 and O against Matt Painter, so maybe it's a bit. Or maybe there's something going on there, but they got Purdue at home. Maybe it's Virginia neutral site. I do think that if they. Assuming they win those games they're favored in, then like, yeah, a win against Purdue or like a win on the road at Michigan State, I think that probably boosts you up to the point where you probably are safe and you'll get to like 20 or 21 wins, I think. Yeah, they might just need one of them.
- [10:05]
Adam Jardy
Okay, like, Adam, what about the.
- [10:07]
Bill Landis
Sorry, don't cut you off.
- [10:09]
Doug Lay Maurice
Go ahead.
- [10:09]
Bill Landis
What about the pit loss and what if that slips in the quadrant three?
- [10:16]
Adam Jardy
That's. That's the one. Really, like, that's the thing that if they certainly you could flip like two or three games by the matter of five points. They lost a pit by one. They lost to North Carolina by one. They lost to Nebraska by three. You know, the difference of five points is this team, like being a six or seven seed potentially, and then being what they are or projected to be right now like is. Is significant. But it's. That pit loss is the thing that is dragging this down because that's a. That's just a gross loss. And for them to overcome that, that's. If they. If they had won that game, they'd be safely in. Even if they take Carolina loss.
- [10:57]
Connor Lemons
Okay.
- [10:58]
Adam Jardy
All the other losses they would be safely in if not for the pit loss. So that is the thing that is like anchoring the resume below the line right now or right. Right at the line. That's why. Yeah, I do think they got to pick somebody off and kind of make up for that.
- [11:12]
Doug Lay Maurice
So. So Adam, as you and Connor talk about the idea of picking somebody off, that they need to do it. The team that you've watched, do they feel capable of doing that in your mind? Is this like a huge ask to win one of these quad one games down the stretch or you've talked about all these close games. Are they very capable of that on any given night?
- [11:30]
Adam Jardy
I'm surprised they haven't done it yet, frankly. I mean, they've had enough close calls. I mean, the. You're beating Carolina by four in the last minute on or on a neutral, and. And you end up or by three and you end up losing by one. Like they were right in it with Nebraska right up until, you know, the very end. They lose by three. They were in it with Illinois at home like they were tied 50, 50 with Michigan with about nine minutes to go at the Chrysler center. And, and Michigan pulls away late. Michigan's elite. I do think they're there. I think these opportunities are real and it's not. You're not saying, man, you got to go out and, you know, pull off the unthinkable. Like, I think it's with well within expectations for this team that they should be able to pick off one or two of these teams. And so I'm just kind of surprised they haven't yet because they've been, they've been there.
- [12:21]
Connor Lemons
I agree, I agree. And I mean, if you look at how they played against ucla, not to jump in and cut you off, Doug, but oh God, they led pretty, I.
- [12:27]
Adam Jardy
Think wire to wire.
- [12:28]
Connor Lemons
Adam, right against UCLA, if they trailed UCLA, it was for only a minute or two. They were up by 15ish points for the majority of that game against UCLA at home. And then do you, do you think that, that Purdue is 15 to 20 points better than, than UCLA? I, I agree with Adam. Like they are capable of doing it. They just have to play the full 40 because in some of these games they, they've signed up for 36 or 37 minutes and the other team signed up for 40.
- [12:58]
Doug Lay Maurice
Okay. All right, let's go to question number two. Connor, we'll start with you. Who's the most important Ohio State player for the rest of the season?
- [13:07]
Connor Lemons
I think it's probably John Mobley Jr. I think that teams have him at the top of their scouting report because of his three point shooting ability and how deep he can shoot from. I think if, if Juni is able to knock down shots, it opens up everything else for everybody. And Deibler and Holtman have both loved this phrase, like the gravity that Juni pulls with him, that teams have to have a defender within a foot or two of Juni, which gives other guys opportunities to have like one on one matchups, which if you give Bruce Thornton or Devin Royal one on one matchups and they can get into their spots, you really like their ability to do that. If Juni can't get shots or isn't hitting shots, teams don't necessarily need to respect that. He's had a couple stinkers lately and losses where he had, I think three against Washington, he had four against Michigan, he had nine against Wisconsin.
- [14:00]
Adam Jardy
All losses.
- [14:02]
Connor Lemons
So his ability to hit shots and kind of force defenses to push out towards the perimeter and open things up, I think that's, that's crucial moving forward.
- [14:13]
Doug Lay Maurice
Landis, who you got?
- [14:15]
Bill Landis
I'm gonna say Christoph Tilly. I was double checking like, and it's always an important thing to look at with these up transfers. Like what's going to translate, what's not right. And some of the things have translated for him, right? The offensive rebounding I think is translated, the assist rate is translated. He's a good playmaker for, for a big man. He's actually drawing more fouls in the Big Ten than he did at Santa Clara, which I think is interesting, getting to align more. But his defensive rebounding hasn't translated and his rim protection hasn't translated. And I think like, you know, you, you, you need your seven footer, I think playing with a little more force and a little bit more of a, of a physical presence, especially I think on the defensive class for Ohio State, which is, you know, not a tremendous defensive rebounding team. Just sort of generally, if they can get him to, to be a little more locked in, I think primarily in the defensive rebounding area. And then also he's made a couple threes the last couple games. Like if he's, if he's going to do that too, that, that obviously can open up a whole lot for the offense. It's a heck of a thing to have a seven footer that you can play up top and, and play make and shoot a little bit. And I think he, he definitely has that in him. And his three point shooting is, has been poor for most of the year, but it has been decent in the past and it looks pretty good the last couple of games. Like if, if that's starting to round in the form, that can be a pretty big difference maker for Ohio State. So I think there's a number of guys you can go with this question, but I pick Tilly.
- [15:41]
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- [16:11]
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- [16:23]
Adam Jardy
Great.
- [16:23]
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Subject to availability restrictions and fees apply.
- [16:30]
Doug Lay Maurice
Adam, what you got?
- [16:31]
Adam Jardy
Well, that's a great point on Tilly's three point shooting. And I do think, like, I've, I've been looking for him to like regress to the mean at some point, like in a positive direction because he's not this bad of a three point shooter. I think we're starting to see a little bit, a little bit of that the last couple of games. So that's a, that's a really good point. The guy I'm going to go with, Devin Royal, because I just feel like it's not fully like consistently clicked for him in this position change. Like there have been. There was a stretch there, I mean, between. I've got the numbers in front of me, but it's like starting with the Western Michigan game on November 20th and going all the way until the, the overtime win against Minnesota. Like he was in double figures in every one of those games. And going into that Minnesota game, he was shooting almost 40 from three and was, you know, the rebounding wasn't quite there, but he was making the position change make sense. Like he was scoring from the perimeter. They're giving up some stuff inside with him, but he was, he was hitting from deep and he just hasn't looked like himself the last five or six games. And I mean the three point shooting is down like in his last six games he's 2 for 20. So he went from shooting like 40 to like, I think he said he's at 31.5 now. So like they, they need him to be like just a steady physical presence. And I think a lot of times when they talk about like the dealer was pretty pointed about they were not physical enough, they couldn't match Michigan's physicality on Sunday. Like some of that is Devin and it's not just on him, but like moving him to the wing was to be able to take advantage of his physical gifts on the perimeter and play bigger. And it hasn't always worked. So I think they need him to be just more consistent across the board because he's one of the three guys that, that is supposed to be, you know, really, really driving this engine.
- [18:14]
Bill Landis
Okay, can I ask you guys because, you know, you would know better than me the prospects of Brandon Noel, like actually returning this year in a meaningful way. Is, is, is that, is that on the table or is that just kind of pie in the sky? We'll see what happens.
- [18:31]
Adam Jardy
Yeah, there's an expectation he will be back potentially before the end of the regular season. Now, how you integrate somebody back into the lineup after they've missed two months of Big Ten play and suddenly like, you're about to play Indiana on Senior Day and it's probably a playing game for the tournament. Like, there's some real questions I think about, like, what that looks like, but yes, there is. There is. From a physical, like, recovery standpoint. Yeah, he's on track to get back before the season ends.
- [18:57]
Connor Lemons
I think during the radio show today, he said, like, we finally are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel with Brandon. And he said, like, so we're going to welcome back obviously, that physicality and size he brings. So to me, that sounds like what kind of what Adam said was like, they totally anticipate him playing at some point, but I think he was still in the boot yesterday or recently. So probably not immediate.
- [19:17]
Adam Jardy
Yeah, still in the boot, but walking in the boot, which is an important distinction. Like when I saw him at Maryland on Thursday, still like on the, the. The scooter thing that, you know, you see the guys in or with the crutches, but like, he was walking without crutches on Sunday at the shot, which I thought was a notable development.
- [19:38]
Doug Lay Maurice
Sounds like kind of a, like a pirate thing. Like, ah, how's he. How's Brandon doing? I still in the boot because I, I think they used to call that the pirate jail. Was. They called that the boot. So, like. But maybe they'll get let out of the boot at some point.
- [19:52]
Adam Jardy
That's a, That's a trunk in Britain. The booty or car.
- [19:55]
Doug Lay Maurice
Oh, yeah, he's in the boot. It's like, oh, my God, who put him in the boot?
- [19:58]
Adam Jardy
Let him out. Let him out.
- [20:02]
Bill Landis
Did anybody consider saying. Sorry. I'm sorry, Doug. Did anybody consider saying Tayson Chapman?
- [20:08]
Connor Lemons
No, not for a second.
- [20:10]
Adam Jardy
No, I didn't. No.
- [20:13]
Bill Landis
I'm just wondering, like, they need. They need a. They need a. A bucket. They need a bucket off the bench, right?
- [20:18]
Doug Lay Maurice
It's, you know, that is how you can do it.
- [20:21]
Adam Jardy
That's a great point, though. I was thinking about that today because, like, I really thought coming into the season, his development could be big. When you talk about them not really having like a three behind Devin, like, I really thought that Tayson's size allows him to do like a three guard lineup. He could taste. Can play the three with Bruce and Juni and then either it's Amari Bynum or Brandon Noel or Devin Royal at the four. Like I thought there was real potential for that. It hasn't really come to fruition. But like the way Tayson has played lately, if he, he played 20 minutes yesterday against Michigan, like if he can continue producing and playing that, that volume of minutes, then like, then that could impact, like I said, Devon, like maybe they can play Devon a little more closer to the basket and he can do some things. So there's, there's some wrinkles there. If he continues to play like this, where certainly he'd be, he'd be a fair, fair guy to mention.
- [21:15]
Doug Lay Maurice
Okay, let's go to question number three. Bill, we'll start with you. This is a big picture question and everyone had to study and, and look things up and, and double check their knowledge about every other team in the conference. It's the 18 team Big Ten Conference. Where would you rank Ohio State among the basketball programs in the Big Ten? And again, whenever, like, sort of, I think about like program that doesn't exactly mean like just necessarily like right now in the standings. Where would they be? Like coach, culture, resources, recent past, future, where they are now, like the program we know they're in a three way tie for ninth. This is, by the way, Big Ten. Bill. Good, Good at ball, Good at basketball. Basketball.
- [21:58]
Bill Landis
I hear it's the best conference in the country.
- [22:00]
Adam Jardy
It's not.
- [22:01]
Doug Lay Maurice
God, it's not.
- [22:04]
Bill Landis
It's often not.
- [22:04]
Adam Jardy
What.
- [22:08]
Doug Lay Maurice
Is the SEC good at? Basketball still is. The sec. Is that like a real thing? Is that like one year thing?
- [22:13]
Adam Jardy
It was elite last year. Like the best single season for any conference ever. It's not as good this year. I think the SEC and Big Ten are running neck and neck, but I think, I think they're all kind of jockeying for position behind the Big 12.
- [22:25]
Doug Lay Maurice
Okay, as long as it's not the SEC. All right. Bill, where does Ohio State rank among basketball programs in the Big Ten?
- [22:32]
Bill Landis
I, I kind of think like where the standings tell you they do. I know that's at the spirit of the exercise, but I, I would say like right in the middle, like eighth or eighth or ninth. I, you know, programs that I think are definitively better without question. I would say like Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue, Illinois, and I would probably say Wisconsin and Iowa right now. Like Iowa just fired Fran. But Iowa is like, they were pretty regular tournament appear under Fran and they're probably going to make it this year with Ben McCollum. So like they're, they haven't really lost any momentum. I. I think you'd have to say Nebraska is better right now, and it's not just like a one season snapshot.
- [23:05]
Doug Lay Maurice
They're.
- [23:05]
Bill Landis
This is a third straight year with 20 wins. They were in the tournament two years ago. They're going to make it again this year. There's. There's clear upward trajectory there under Fred Hoiberg and probably ucla. Like, they're new to the Big Ten, but, you know, they've been good since they've gotten into the Big Ten, and prior to that they were good. So I don't know how you'd feel very confident saying that. Ohio State is better than any of those eight programs right now. So I'll. I'll put them at ninth. And I think they're like, pretty firmly middle of the pack in the league right now.
- [23:34]
Doug Lay Maurice
Okay, Adam, where would you put them?
- [23:36]
Adam Jardy
So we're talking. This was like, like you said, historical context or just like in the moment.
- [23:43]
Bill Landis
So.
- [23:43]
Doug Lay Maurice
So, like, I would say it's. It's not just like, who would win a game today, Right. But it's like what happened in 1986 doesn't matter. But like, when you think of like the best programs, maybe like three year, five year snapshot, sort of, sort of everything that, that goes into that. But, you know, again, also just. It's made up. This is all made up, Adam.
- [24:10]
Bill Landis
It can be whatever you want.
- [24:11]
Adam Jardy
And the points don't matter.
- [24:13]
Bill Landis
That's the point.
- [24:13]
Doug Lay Maurice
Yeah. Yeah.
- [24:15]
Adam Jardy
All right, so I. I have Michigan, Illinois, Michigan State, Purdue, Indiana definitively ahead of Ohio State. I think it gets a little muddy after that. Like, I think, like, I want to put USC there or, excuse me, UCLA ahead of Ohio State because I think, like, historically it is, but I'm really starting to believe that the west coast teams are just always going to be a step back. Like, I. Going forward, I'm putting them a notch below where I think they should finish every year in the preseason because, like, it is proving to be very real for those programs, like trying to compete in the, in the constant travel and all the, the side effects that they're dealing with, even from a recruiting standpoint. Like, I think it's just going to get harder and harder for those programs. So, like, I would put UCLA historically there, but I think right now I would not want that job.
- [25:10]
Doug Lay Maurice
So it's a good way to think of it.
- [25:13]
Adam Jardy
So. So, I mean, I think probably like sixth or seventh, because I, I do think, like, there are resources and their support, but I don't think that The. I'm talking myself out of sixth or seventh right now because as I'm, as I'm saying that, I'm realizing that Ohio State's not anywhere near that when it comes to like nil and resources from a financial standpoint. So I just talked myself out of it. I'm going to say like 8th or 9th, because they're just welcome. Yeah. From a financial standpoint, they're just not there. And that, that's the thing.
- [25:45]
Doug Lay Maurice
And that's how you have to at least partly think about it in this new era.
- [25:49]
Adam Jardy
Right.
- [25:49]
Doug Lay Maurice
Like, we're all trying to figure out, like, what that means and how much you're spending on stuff. Connor, where would you have them?
- [25:55]
Connor Lemons
Until Adam just swerved left there at the very end. I had, I had verbatim, like the same thing written down. I had Michigan, Michigan State, Illinois, Purdue, Indiana, then Ohio State. So six. I was thinking Nebraska, Iowa, but like, not to dump on, on Fran McCaffrey while the body is still warm. But like, I don't think he ever made it to the second round of the tournament at Iowa. So he did get there a lot. I don't think they had really tournament success, though. And I love what Hoiberg's doing at Nebraska now. But I think before I could say that Nebraska basketball is a better program than Ohio State, more big view. I would need to see Nebraska be like, competitive and in the tournament probably for like a couple years because I don't. I'm not familiar with Nebraska's really program history in the long term. But I don't think that historically they've been like a fantastic basketball school. Have they? Like Adam or.
- [26:49]
Bill Landis
They've never won a tournament game. Right.
- [26:51]
Adam Jardy
I'll say.
- [26:51]
Connor Lemons
That's.
- [26:51]
Adam Jardy
That's my, that's my favorite random fact. They're the only high major team that's never won a conference or a big NCAA tournament game.
- [26:58]
Connor Lemons
So like Nebraska, Iowa are better, I think this year, but I would probably need to see another year or two at least of like sustained success to say, like macro view. Like, yeah, they're better programs. So I would keep them at six, I think right now.
- [27:10]
Doug Lay Maurice
Okay. Man, they're gonna go wild if they win a tournament game this year.
- [27:13]
Adam Jardy
Oh, yeah.
- [27:14]
Bill Landis
Exciting for those guys.
- [27:15]
Adam Jardy
Absolutely. The interesting one too, we none of us mentioned this, but Maryland, I, I think is a fascinating job in the context of this league because, like, we all, I think, can agree that like, Maryland would like, still be doing really well in the acc and it just feels like it would be a better Program better. Better fit in the acc. And, like, I don't know what Buzz is doing to that program this year, but it's shocking where Maryland is, because Buzz is not a bad coach by any means. And to see them fall off the way that they have fallen off this year. Being there on Thursday, I've never seen that arena anything less than packed to the rafters and loud and just intimidating, and it was boring in that crowd. So I don't know what's going on there, what that the trajectory looks like there, but I'm shocked with where the Terrapins are right now.
- [28:04]
Doug Lay Maurice
Yeah.
- [28:04]
Bill Landis
I couldn't believe that there were empty seats there. Every time I've gone there, it's been a house of horrors for Ohio State, and it's like, there's nobody here in Ohio State. One by 20. It's like, what is. What world are we living in?
- [28:12]
Adam Jardy
I mean, I just. I always flashback to you and I standing outside that locker room after they lost 100 to 65.
- [28:18]
Doug Lay Maurice
Yeah.
- [28:19]
Adam Jardy
And just like, they. I mean, they didn't come out of that locker room for a long time. You know, I just stand there like, well, this is. This was cool.
- [28:28]
Bill Landis
We made the trip.
- [28:29]
Adam Jardy
Yeah.
- [28:29]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [28:31]
Doug Lay Maurice
I get. Again, just. I'm not. I'm not keeping up with basketball as much as Buzz Lightyear, the coach at Maryland now.
- [28:37]
Adam Jardy
Best. Best shirt I've seen at a. At a college basketball game. I think probably in my entire life. This could be recency bias, but they play in the Xfinity Center. There was a T shirt with Buzz Williams face on Buzz Lightyear's body, and it said to Xfinity and beyond. And I almost shoved this person over to steal the shirt off of them. I was so overjoyed by that T shirt.
- [29:05]
Doug Lay Maurice
If they weren't 4 and 21, that would really slap. Yeah, that would be. You can't have your T shirt be that much better than your team. So we're transitioning into a sweet 16 question, but I'm going to throw this in as a little fact that I looked up. I looked up two sweet 16 facts since Ohio State, because this is. It goes a tiny bit toward, like, program, Right. Since Ohio State last made the Sweet 16 in 2013, do you want to guess how many of the other current Big Ten teams. So they didn't all make them while they were in the Big Ten. How many of the other. The other 17 teams in the Big Ten, how many of them have made the Sweet 16 since Ohio State last made it? Connor, do you want to guess?
- [29:53]
Connor Lemons
Not really? But I will say.
- [29:55]
Adam Jardy
We'll say.
- [29:55]
Connor Lemons
I'll say eight. I'll guess eight, because I was going to look at the list of standings, but you called on me first.
- [30:00]
Doug Lay Maurice
Okay, He's. He said eight. Adam, what's your guess?
- [30:02]
Adam Jardy
I'm gonna say 10.
- [30:05]
Doug Lay Maurice
Okay, Landis, what's your guess?
- [30:07]
Bill Landis
One dollar.
- [30:08]
Doug Lay Maurice
Bob?
- [30:09]
Adam Jardy
Oh.
- [30:11]
Doug Lay Maurice
It is 10. It is 10. So, like, that is. Michigan's made it seven times. Michigan State, Purdue and UCLA have made it five. Oregon and Wisconsin made it four. Maryland made it twice. In Illinois, Indiana and USC all made it once. And so, like, the teams again, like your cohort, the group of teams that, like, have not with Ohio stated, have zero Sweet 16 appearances in the last 11 tournaments. Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Washington, Northwest, Northwestern, Rutgers and Penn State. So, like, that's just like, who in that little statistic, who they are lumped in with, which. Adam will lead us to the fourth question. What word or phrase would you use to describe the fact that Ohio State's last week's Sweet 16 appearance was in 2013?
- [30:58]
Adam Jardy
I'm gonna go with complicated because that's good, because I do think, and you know, I had plenty of time to write this when the whole world was shut down, but, like, I do think that the 2020 team would have gotten there. The. The numbers would tell us that that was a top 20 team and adjusted offensive and defensive efficiency at Ken Palm. And there's some. I don't remember it now. I did it at the time, but some crazy stat that like 96 of teams that are top 20 in both, like, make the sweet 16, like, it's. That team was balanced. That team was clicking at the right time. I very much believe no COVID 19, that team makes the tournament or that that team makes a sweet 16. So I think that that is. That makes it a little challenging in the context of all this, because then kind of coming out of COVID like that, that really did. Everything changed, you know, kind of at that point. So certainly they've had enough talent to have made it regardless of that. And when you look at teams with. Playing with Malachi Branham and E.J. liddell and you know, some of the. The all conference type of pieces they've had, they should have gotten there at some point, and then they haven't. So I. It's complicated to me, to quote the great Avril Lavigne.
- [32:15]
Doug Lay Maurice
I thought maybe that your answer would be like, it's a champagne supernova, guys. Like, I just can't. So I'm glad you went with a different two Words. Yeah. So.
- [32:26]
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- [33:08]
Connor Lemons
Great.
- [33:09]
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- [33:14]
Doug Lay Maurice
Connor, how would you describe this sweet 16 drought?
- [33:17]
Connor Lemons
I would say a little unlucky, but mostly underwhelming because like Adam said, maybe a little unlucky because that team that didn't get a chance to play had an op could have done so. And then I thought that also the, the team that lost to Oral Roberts, that was, I think a two seed. Oral Roberts was a, was a mid major that when the bracket comes out and they put it up there and people go, oh, because they had max asthma, who's like the nation's leading scorer. They have Kevin o' Banner who turned into a pro and, and you know, they, they get a good 15 seed, a spicy 15 seed. You need to beat the 15 seed. But that 15 seed I thought was armed with more talent than a lot of 15 seeds are. And so unlucky draw. You still have to beat them. But mostly underwhelming because since then, they've had five years since then. And like Adam said, they've had several pros come through the program, first round picks come through the program, teams that needed to be in the tournament that didn't.
- [34:18]
Doug Lay Maurice
Yeah. Yeah. Landis, how would you describe it?
- [34:21]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I think I would say like, like below the standard is like, as I, like I still understand it.
- [34:27]
Adam Jardy
Right.
- [34:27]
Bill Landis
Like, I think there's a larger question here that we don't really have on the docket, but it sort of encapsulates all this of like, like what is, what is Ohio State basketball supposed to be in this modern era? But what it has been is a team that doesn't go that long without making the sweet 16. I think the longest drought they've had prior to this one was nine years between was a 71 and 80 so like, you know, it's not a guarantee they make the sweet 16. And I said this a lot to people during the Chris Holtman tenure when, when Holtman was making it his first couple of years, but they weren't advancing and people were really hungry to see the team advance that like it is to define yourself by how far you advance in a tournament because there is so much unexpected baked into it. Perhaps losing to a team like Oral Roberts just happens to be a bad matchup for you as a 15 seed. So, you know, I, I would still maybe caution people against, against doing that. But you also, when you're talking about a decade plus a place like Ohio State should be able to break through. So the fact that they haven't going on what 13 years is, is certainly below the standard of what I think Ohio State basketball should still be.
- [35:35]
Adam Jardy
Yeah, the other interesting thing about like Connor bringing up the, the Oral Roberts game, because there's probably like a book to be written about that game and how pivotal that ultimately becomes in Ohio State basketball. But like if that team also like did. Every team has these scenarios. But I always think like, if Kyle Young hadn't gotten concussed for like the fifth time and they had Kyle Young in that game, like, yeah, you know, they couldn't chase Oral Roberts around. I mean, they had Zed Key trying to like guard like mobile bigs on the perimeter and Zed hadn't lost any weight at this point. Like it was, you know, certainly Oral Roberts had everything to do with it. But also like Ohio State was really undermanned and they're coming out of playing in the COVID bubble where they had just gone down to the wire in the Big Ten tournament, lost in overtime in the championship game to Illinois, I believe, and played like four games in four days in a bubble and then got moved to a different bubble and then weirdly had to drive because like the whole tournament was like in Indianapolis, but Ohio State had to drive to West Lafayette to go play that game. There's a lot of weirdness like all around that that led into that game. But yeah, if Kyle Young doesn't get concussed in the Big Ten tournament, maybe it's a different story.
- [36:43]
Bill Landis
They should have just lost the Michigan and gotten a three seed instead of a two seed. They would have been have to play Oral Robertson.
- [36:49]
Adam Jardy
And we've, we have seen you guys know this over the years, like that last game right before the selection show does not matter.
- [36:55]
Doug Lay Maurice
Yeah.
- [36:56]
Adam Jardy
Win, lose. I mean, it matters for pride certainly. And you want to win A trophy. And that was one of the many opportunities Ohio State's had in the last however many years to win a championship. But like, it doesn't, it, it's not going to affect your seed. Like the committee has, has shown us that. So, yeah, maybe they should have just lost the day before and packed it up.
- [37:14]
Doug Lay Maurice
Yeah, I, I do think, like, too many questions off of that. Could you argue that Ohio State was as affected by the COVID situation as any men's basketball team in the country? Like, not just that, like, what the. I mean, so many teams were denied opportunities in the tournament that was canceled. But then like, what it meant to the program and how Adam, you sort of talked about it is sort of like changed. I feel like the whole momentum around the program. And then also like, is that Oral Roberts loss the next year, like the most devastating loss in Ohio State basketball history? Now you could certainly say, like, oh, like, you know, you lose to Florida the national championship game, and like, stuff like that. But, but again, like that, because then Oral Roberts makes a sweet 16, right? Like you, you, you, you, you. The, the paths between those two years, like, you lose that you shut down the tournament one year and then the next year when you're back, you lose as a two seed is like, obviously Holtman never recovered from that, Adam. But like, I think contextually in the whole sport, like, I don't think there's a lot of teams that would be comparable to like, how it threw off the program. Also, like worldwide plague, not great for anybody. But like, when it comes to college.
- [38:30]
Adam Jardy
Basketball, you know, the one, the one that I always go with is Dayton because, like, you're Ohio State and like, yes, you had this opportunity and this, this watershed and it doesn't happen. But like, you should have the resources and the ability to like, reload at some point. But like, Dayton could have won it all. I mean, they had it. They. I mean, you got Obi Toppin. Like, that team was 29 2. That team was just like, that's, that's the ultimate all time. What if for me is like, what would the Flyers have done that year in the tournament? I mean, that was, they were so much fun to watch. Maybe, maybe, who knows, maybe we would have gotten Ohio State, Dayton in the sweet 16 in like Lexington or something and it would have been just, yeah, lit. So, yeah, I, I would make a case for Dayton.
- [39:16]
Bill Landis
Yeah, that's a good case. Anyone else make a case?
- [39:20]
Connor Lemons
I was sitting here with Dayton in my hand waiting to make sure that Adam didn't say it Imagine. Imagine being a Dayton alum, and that season you're, like, just steamrolling Everybody in the A10, and then you're like, we're gonna get a one seed, which means we're almost guaranteed to get to the Sweet 16. And then, whoop, you can't play Obi Toppin off to the NBA. And they got absolutely nothing from that.
- [39:43]
Bill Landis
Yeah, yeah.
- [39:46]
Doug Lay Maurice
State.
- [39:46]
Connor Lemons
Yeah.
- [39:47]
Bill Landis
I do think, like, that was a good team, that Ohio State team that year. And, like, they, you know, they were top 10. Ken Palm. I always thought, like, Chris Altman oversold that team's potential a little bit. Like, they lost 10 games. They weren't. They weren't, like, juggernauts. And I was just looking. Andy Katz that year actually projected the field of what it would have been had they played a tournament. They were a six seed. It wasn't like they were going to be a top four seed or, like, even vying for a one seed. Like, it was. It was certainly the best team that Chris Holtman had, and a team that could have had some success that I think would have kind of softened what happened on the other side of it, even if everything remained the same on the other side of that. But I don't know that it was like, boy, Ohio State would have won a national title that year.
- [40:27]
Adam Jardy
No, no, I. I always thought, like, they would have been, like, a 5 seed, and they probably would have been a trendy 512 upset pick, but I felt like they were going to be in a position where they. They would have a chance to. To make it to the side.
- [40:40]
Doug Lay Maurice
Yeah.
- [40:40]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [40:41]
Doug Lay Maurice
And. And Bill, to your point, I looked up that same thing about the Sweet 16 drought. So the. The tournament expanded to 16 teams in 1951, and then Ohio State made this week 16 in 1990. So, like, as you said, like, they've never gone a decade without not. Not playing in the Sweet 16 until now. So it's been 11 tournaments without the Sweet 16. And this is one of these things. And. And I think the. What is Ohio State basketball supposed to be? Is one of the enduring conversations around Ohio State athletics. It's. It. When they're good, you have that conversation. When they're mediocre, you have that conversation. When they're not good, you have that conversation. This. This monolith, like, looms over everything in the new era. Can you be good at both? Like, this is a never ending, fascinating conversation about Ohio State basketball, but this is the biggest drought ever. And that. That I do think when you're trying to define, like, what should they be like? It's, it's not this, you know, like, I think like, like this is, whatever it is, it's, it's at least a little better than this. Adam, is that, like, is that, is that, is that fair to say? And again, it's not that Ohio State's supposed to be a top 25 team every year, but this is never happened ever to Ohio State basketball.
- [42:04]
Adam Jardy
Yeah, I think that's, that's an accurate way to look at it. Like it should have happened at some point. You know, in some ways, like, there's some parallels to like, how is the Big Ten, like not won a championship since Michigan state won it 26 years ago? And it's like, right. I mean, how many Big Ten teams have gotten to the championship game and lost and like, been right there and just like, it's not like, oh, they're never getting there, they're just not winning it. And it's like they've, they've had some unfortunate luck, certainly they've not built together or built talented enough, deep enough rosters, you know, in this, in this era to, to put themselves in position to do those kinds of things, but I guess to the larger picture, like. Doug, one of my favorite things you always used to cite, and I had to go back and look it up, but back when, when Thad had it rolling, I, I did the math again. So Thad won five Big Ten titles in his first eight years. And prior to Thad getting there, Ohio State had won five Big Ted titles in his previous 34 years. And I think that's what makes this so difficult to wrap our arms around because you have these pockets where it's elite. I mean they, for that eight year stretch was as good as anybody in the country in those eight years. But Ohio State's not that consistently and they're not what football is either. So it puts them in this, like, very difficult to define middle ground where they should be better than what they've been, but they probably shouldn't be what I think maybe the average fan expects because they're Ohio State fans and they think it's their birthright. So it makes it, it's a, it's a difficult conversation.
- [43:46]
Doug Lay Maurice
It really is. And it really. And we would do seven hours on this show if we try to dive any deeper into that. So we'll move to our final question. Connor, we'll start with you for this one. If you could change one thing about Ohio State basketball or add one thing to Ohio State basketball, like whether it, for the, for the program. For the, like, I, I don't know, could be like they change the drinks in the arena, like, whatever. Like what, what's the thing that you could just change about Buckeye hoops that might make a difference.
- [44:17]
Connor Lemons
Okay, I'll take the low hanging fruit and say that they played in a actual basketball, everybody. I wish, I wish I could have been in the room in April of 1996 when I actually wasn't born until nine months later. So that's probably.
- [44:32]
Adam Jardy
Don't do that.
- [44:34]
Connor Lemons
If I was in the room in 1996 when they, when they were getting ready to do the groundbreaking for, for the shot, I wish I could make a PowerPoint for them, which also didn't exist in 1996. So that's tough. But say these are all the reasons why this isn't going to work because I genuinely think that if they played in a, in an actual basketball specific arena, Ohio State would probably pick up one to two extra home wins per year. And what a difference that would make over the course of time if every year they pick up an additional one to two wins. And that's just from. I can't go to every road game because this isn't my full time job. But the chances that I've had to go to Indiana, go to Purdue, go to Michigan State and you walk in and the band is sitting in the bleachers and they're, and they're going crazy. And then when Michigan State or Indiana goes on a 6, 0 run or something and it feels like the building's gonna fall apart. Adam, you know what it's like. There are points in those games where Ohio State may only be down by eight and you go, this game's over. It's over. Ohio State never gets that kind of boost at home because the shot doesn't allow it. And I could go on forever about the shot, but that, that's my answer.
- [45:37]
Doug Lay Maurice
Okay. It's interesting because like the case you're making, Connor, is that it affects the actual basketball. It affects. They would have a better record and win a couple more games a year because the environment would allow them to do so. And everyone's allowed to say the same thing. If you want to say the same thing, you don't have to find something different. Bill?
- [45:56]
Bill Landis
Yeah, I mean, that, that, that's, that's my answer because I think like I was talking to somebody at the game on Sunday about like, boy, it'd be nice if they could get a crowd like this all the time. I was like, well, the Team has to earn. That, I think, is the primary motivator there. But also, like, if you had a place that's, like, fun to go watch a game, people would show up even if you weren't great. Like. And I was. I was sitting there on press row, looking up at the rafters, thinking to myself, like, could they just lop the top section of this building off and bring the roof down and then just have that be the arena. What's. It holds, like 19,000 or almost 19,000. I was looking at the capacities of college basketball arenas earlier today, and it's among among the biggest. And the programs that are bigger are, like, Kentucky and unc, which, like, have no problem getting people in their building sort of. Sort of no matter what. Like, the idea that a program like this, that is, you know, sometimes it's elite and, like, when the shot is packed, it's great, but it's rarely packed. And even when it is packed, like, it's still. It's not. It's not a modern arena. It's not. It has no charm. It's not a fun place to go watch a game. It's just. It doesn't compare to much of what the rest of the Big Ten offers and what the rest of major college basketball offers. And, like, Cincinnati's got a brand new thing down there that's like. That's awesome. And, like, Northwestern's renovated arena is awesome, and the shot sucks. Like, it's. It's really. It's really bad. It's not even good for concerts. Like, they built it for concerts. It's. That's not even a good place to go see a show generally. It's just an old arena. And, like, not. Not in the. In a. In a, like, charming, kind of folksy way that old arenas can be sometimes. So I, you know, does it drastically change the. The outlook for the program? I don't know. I think Connor's right. I do think a different home environment would probably get Ohio State an extra winner, too. I think it would be more appealing to the players they're talking to about, hey, look at this place that we play in. Isn't this cool? So, yeah, it doesn't. Maybe. I don't know if that's where six, like, you know, different success starts for the program, but if I could knock that place to the ground and build them a real basketball arena tomorrow, I would definitely do it.
- [48:04]
Doug Lay Maurice
Hey, Ross, you know, I'm. I'm no architect, but what would it take to just lower the roof? You know, it's Worth asking.
- [48:13]
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- [48:55]
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- [49:01]
Doug Lay Maurice
Adam Jardi, is this your answer as well? You have something else?
- [49:04]
Adam Jardy
Oh, basically yes. Two things that you guys both brought up because I, I looked this up Bill, as you were talking. It's the ninth largest capacity in the country. The schools that have basketball or that have arenas that are bigger. Syracuse, Louisville, North Carolina, Tennessee, Georgetown, Kentucky, North Carolina State, Arkansas and then Ohio State. It's the biggest arena in the Big ten. And to in Connor, to your point, like I can't tell you how many times like you'll see Ohio State play somebody on the road and it's packed and it's loud and they're in your like go to watch your house. They play at Rutgers and it's packed to the rafters and it is hard to win there even if Rutgers is garbage because it is. They are on you and they are into it and it is loud and it's all those things. And then Rutgers comes to Ohio State and it's. There's 11000 people in a 19000 seat arena and it's not that. And so Ohio State like get gets the unfortunate end of like go on the road and play in these hostile environments and then that same team comes to Columbus and doesn't. Doesn't get that. And Connor, to your point, like if we could go back to 1996 and flip things. I did some research on this when it came up to the 25th anniversary of the shot and really the way that the shot was conceived, had the blue jackets existed or been thought of six months, eight months earlier, we would not have the Jerome Schottenstein centered as we know it. Because there's no reason to have two essentially identical multi purpose facilities within like four miles of each other. Like it's, it's actually kind of insane. Like if you take a 50, 000 foot view of Columbus that we have these two arenas that do the same thing that are that close to each other. Had the Blue Jackets been a realistic possibility a year before they, they, they were. They would have come up with Nationwide and presumably Ohio State would have then been like well let. We don't need a big multi purpose whatever to compete with the other arena right down the road we're gonna build a basketball arena and then we'd all be so much happier. Life would be better. So. But, but like I think my, my overall answer to the question would just be to prioritize basketball in a way that it just doesn't seem to be like we can talk about the arena. We can talk about like how much they actually can spend from an nil standpoint. Can talk about like just. They have the lamest national championship banner in the entire history of national championship banners. Like you go in that arena and it's because they don't want to block the sight lines or whatever for, for concerts and. But like they have this giant banner that says national champions and it says 1960 in like this big. And. And like you could go down the list. There's like. There's so many things like that but like they just need if. If they want to turn it around. If. Or maybe turn around is. Is too strong of a phrase but like if they want it to be where like it's consistently going to the sweet 16 and, and pushing for championships and all those things. Like they've got to prioritize it in a degree that they're just. They're not. And they're behind from a financial standpoint, they're behind from frankly a resources standpoint like leading into this Michigan game. They never practiced in the shot. They like that main court that Ohio State had to play on. They were never able to practice on it because Andrea Bocelli's world tour was starting in Columbus and they had the, they had the arena for the entire week because they had to run through dress rehearsals. All the people were flying in. Like they practiced in their practice gym and that was it. So like has. They didn't practice on the main floor at the Schottenstein center since before the, the Wisconsin game. And then you're playing the number two team in the country at home on your main floor and your. Michigan has taken as many shots in there as Ohio State in the last like nine days. So like there's A. We could come up with a long list of things like that that it's just. You have to put. If you want it to get where you want it to be, you gotta. You gotta put the resources behind it. And I just don't think Ohio State, they kind of do, but they could. If they could do more.
- [53:17]
Doug Lay Maurice
Yeah, go ahead, Bill.
- [53:18]
Adam Jardy
Sorry.
- [53:18]
Bill Landis
I know, like, the. I'm not gonna ask. Should they play at St. John? Could they play at Cavelli? I know it's small, but, like, could you just get 6, 000 of the people who care the absolute most about Ohio State basketball in Cavelli and play there?
- [53:32]
Adam Jardy
They played there during COVID Yeah, I remember that.
- [53:36]
Bill Landis
Yeah. With no fans.
- [53:38]
Adam Jardy
Right, Right.
- [53:39]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [53:41]
Connor Lemons
I mean, would they be willing to give up the. The ticket revenue when they can charge 40 bucks or 50 bucks a pop to only sell 6,000 tickets?
- [53:52]
Bill Landis
Yeah, that's probably the answer.
- [53:54]
Connor Lemons
Right.
- [53:54]
Bill Landis
They'd rather have 11,000 people and have the building be half empty than 6,000 people and have it be full. But I don't know, like, this. Do the optics not matter at all? Like, it's. It's embarrassing sometimes to see what that building is. And like, they're. They're like game day sticks that they try to do to create an atmosphere are lame. Like, it's just. There's nothing about. It feels like college basketball. It feels like a G league game.
- [54:18]
Adam Jardy
You don't want a free T shirt.
- [54:20]
Bill Landis
I don't want a free T shirt.
- [54:22]
Connor Lemons
You've never won the. You've never won the Great Clips. Who's got the best hair of the day? Camera.
- [54:27]
Bill Landis
Nope. Well, I'm just. I'm envious of all the people who actually have hair to win. And maybe that's what it is.
- [54:34]
Adam Jardy
Man.
- [54:34]
Doug Lay Maurice
That's a lot of good reasons, man. The Blue Jackets, Italian singers, haircut promotions.
- [54:41]
Adam Jardy
We solved it.
- [54:42]
Bill Landis
Yeah.
- [54:43]
Doug Lay Maurice
Problem solved. This has been an interesting basketball conversation. I mean, I do. Like, this team is. Is not as good as Ohio State basketball fans want them to be, but, like, it's pretty interesting. Which is one of those, like, your average team is interesting to talk about. Congratulations to all the fans out there. But it is like, there's a lot to this. And I do think it's. It's not just like, oh, they lost and like, they stink. You know, I get like. And I understand why fans are frustrated, of course.
- [55:09]
Adam Jardy
Sure.
- [55:09]
Doug Lay Maurice
Fans pour their heart and souls into these programs, and they care a lot and they want the teams to be good. But, Adam, you gave complicated as like, one of your answers. During the show. And it's like, I think, I think, like, the whole thing is complicated. I think we could have said complicated for our answers to almost everything in this show.
- [55:29]
Adam Jardy
It's why I don't sleep.
- [55:34]
Bill Landis
Can I. Can I ask these guys? Because I know there are many people who would say if they could change one thing about the program, it would be the coach. And, you know, it'd be one thing for me to say, like, yeah, do it. I'm not there every day. You guys are there every day. You have a better feel for where the program is at. The job that Jake Diebler is doing. And I'm not saying, like, should it be fired? Should he not? I guess I would just ask both of you, like, what do you think of the job that he's doing right now, running the program?
- [56:01]
Adam Jardy
Connor, you want to go first?
- [56:03]
Connor Lemons
Yeah, I, I don't think that he has. I know that Ross Bjork does his review every year and that last year he said, you know, he's met expectation. I, I don't know how many fans Ross Bjork talks to and is it willing to sit down and say, what do you think about the basketball program? And talk to an average person from Columbus or Toledo or Cincinnati or whatever. I don't think that Jake Diebler has met the expectations of Ohio State basketball the first two years. And I think if you ask Jake, he probably would also say that, like, and just in the press press conference, he said, like, the standard that we want is here and we're here and we're trying to get there. But I don't think he's done a horrendous job. And I. You were talking about fire, don't fire. I don't think that he's done a poor enough job that they are going to or should can him after two seasons. But there's a standard that I don't think that they have met. But I also don't think that this season's over yet. And I don't know if you can fully assess his job this season when there's still tennis games left.
- [57:00]
Doug Lay Maurice
Yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you think, Charlie?
- [57:03]
Adam Jardy
That's an excellent point because, like, we don't ultimately know what this season is going to be. And like, if this team, as we both said, like, if they beat the teams we think they're going to beat and then they pick off somebody, like, they're going to be in the tournament and then what are we kind of talking about? And yeah, it's not. It's not where Jake wants it to be. It's not where the fans expect it to be. But also like you did hire a coach with no head coaching experience and it's not like they've like, like said, okay, here's the keys to everything, like, go nuts. Like, he's, he's, he's trying to do this with limited resources and like, you know, that's. It is what it is and it's what you sign up for. But when you do have a there, I, I think there has to be like an element of just like, you understand this is going to be a little bit of a process when you hire a new coach, someone who has no head coaching experience. And if you want to argue about, well, should that have been the hire in the first place, okay, fine, that, that's a whole separate conversation. But like when you hire someone who's never been a head coach and it's not like, I mean, if, if this season or last season was like what Buzz Williams is doing in Maryland, like, like, okay, people, like, let's, let's. But like they've been good. They haven't been good enough yet. But I do think there's like growth on the job. I don't think it's been abjectly terrible like Twitter will tell you and I guess, yeah, we'll see how the rest of the season plays out. But I, I think you have to expect like growing pains and a process here of hiring a new coach, a first year coach at a job like Ohio State.
- [58:38]
Bill Landis
Yeah, yeah.
- [58:39]
Doug Lay Maurice
No, I think that's, I think that's right. You can't go through life with, you know, expecting more from something than what you put into it. Right. Like your output, your output can't be a hundred when your input is, is 50. And so whether it's a first time head coach, whether it's what they are or not doing with nil and all those other resources when you have a football program to support. It is a very complicated conversation. I do think it's an interesting last eight games that this is. In the end, what fans want is like games that matter. Like I, I want my team to matter. And if you are, if you have not been locked into Ohio State basketball, this would be an interesting time to get locked in because they have this stretch where like the season's on the line, so everything they do is going to matter immensely. And we have some of the best people, the best people around covering it. Connor Lemons from Land Grant Holy Land. Where can the people find you? What can they Expect you got anything popping coming up. And just like again, for people who are like, man, I, I love this other French guy. Where can they make sure they follow your coverage?
- [59:43]
Connor Lemons
Land grant. Holy land.com is where all the written stuff's going to be. And then also with Land Grant, we do a weekly college basketball podcast, myself and one of the other writers named Justin called Bucketheads, that's on Thursdays. And then this season I've also been putting together a quick 20 minute, like, intro podcast episode before like the morning of every game. So like a, you're driving to the arena, you're driving home from work, that kind of thing. So there's some audio podcasting stuff again on Spotify, but land grantholyland.com all the written stuff. And then my Twitter is at Lamonds Underscore Connor, if you want to follow me there.
- [60:16]
Doug Lay Maurice
Okay. And Adam Jardi, you've been doing it forever, man. Where can the fine folks find your, your coverage there at the Dispatch and beyond?
- [60:25]
Adam Jardy
You can find it@dispatch.com I've got the podcast, Apple, Spotify, YouTube, the Buckeye Extra, men's basketball podcast. I've got Instagram Hoops, Underscore, and Underscore Scoops, which I, I inherited that name when that was. I think about changing it on like a weekly basis when, when the Dispatch used to have blogs separate from stories, the basketball blog was called Hoops and Scoops. So when Bob Baptist retired and I started covering the team I just borrowed, I took that name and made it Instagram because I was like, okay. And it's just, it's unwieldy. I probably need to, to fix it. Okay.
- [61:08]
Bill Landis
But every time it pops up on my feed, I get mad that it's not about ice cream. So change the name or start talking about ice cream.
- [61:17]
Adam Jardy
Fair. Fair. Okay, I, I will. I'll take that. Currently soliciting names for the new one. Maybe it should just be my. My tick tock handle is cd. Adam Jardi, Columbus Dispatch. So like, maybe I just need to borrow that and, and make it that and shout out to CD101 because that little nod to those guys too, but. But yeah, you can find. It's everywhere. I don't know.
- [61:41]
Doug Lay Maurice
I, I thought that, I thought that was. I thought it was because you like CDs. I. Yeah. Okay. As someone who. My first Twitter handle was OSU Sports from pd. So I've been there, brother. I've been there with the, with the tough social media names and you can bounce back from it. Adam and Connor thank you so much for your time and your expertise on this. And Bill Landis, you're writing about the Buckeye basketball team also over at the the Bill and Doug substack.
- [62:06]
Bill Landis
I am, yeah. But let's be honest, not as well as these guys do. So make sure you're. You're following what they're doing.
- [62:14]
Adam Jardy
We're glad to have you there, man.
- [62:15]
Doug Lay Maurice
Oh, that's so nice. And if anybody wants to talk about David Lighty or Jared Sullinger, whatever, like, give me a shout. So thanks to you guys for taking time out of your busy days. We would encourage you to follow what Adam and Connor are doing as the Buckeyes hit the home stretch here. But for now, for Adam and Connor, for Bill Landis, I'm Doug Lee Maurice. And that was around the shot on the Bill and Doug Show.
- [62:46]
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- [63:16]
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- [63:28]
Connor Lemons
Great.
- [63:29]
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