A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo

Summary

The Bill Simmons Podcast
Episode Title: A Jokic Fest, the Worry Scale, Rather Have, and Favorite Movie Girlfriends LIVE From Denver With Ryen Russillo
Release Date: December 5, 2024

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Live Show Introduction [05:03]

Bill Simmons welcomes listeners to a special live episode recorded at the Fillmore in Denver with Ryen Russillo. The central theme of the show revolves around their mutual admiration for Nikola Jokić, the Denver Nuggets' star center. They set the stage for an in-depth discussion on Jokić's exceptional performance and his impact on the game.

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Jokic Fest: Celebrating Nikola Jokić [05:03 – 29:11]

Jokić's Evolving Game [05:53 – 12:35]

Bill and Ryen delve into Jokić's transformation over the current NBA season. Bill remarks, “He’s now solving stuff instantaneously” ([08:43]), highlighting Jokić’s ability to adapt and excel even when defensive strategies against him evolve. Ryen adds, “He can unlock anything in every single game at that size in a way that I don't know that we've ever seen before” ([08:15]).

Statistical Dominance and MVP Contention [12:35 – 20:50]

The conversation shifts to Jokić's statistical achievements, including his MVP prospects. Bill states, “If he wins a fourth MVP here, now we're in the club with Jordan, LeBron, Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and Wilt Chamberlain” ([16:18]). Ryen concurs, emphasizing Jokić’s unique skill set that bridges traditional center roles with contemporary playmaking.

Comparisons to NBA Legends [20:50 – 29:11]

Bill and Ryen compare Jokić to historical greats, debating his place among them. Bill mentions, “I think for me, just as somebody who's watched basketball my whole life, I like, he's. He does the same stuff Bird or Magic did” ([21:56]). They consider factors like championships, individual accolades, and durability, concluding that while Jokić is elite, comparisons to the all-time greats remain complex.

Notable Quotes:

• Bill Simmons: “Jokić is on pace to join the Mount Rushmore of NBA legends” ([16:18]).
• Ryen Russillo: “Watching him in person last night, Golden State was like, you're not doing the thing you always do. We're not giving you 14 assists tonight. We're going to take away everybody else, and you're going to have to do the thing you hate to do, which is score a lot” ([08:43]).

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Worry Scale: Assessing Concerns [42:08 – 58:12]

Bill introduces the "Worry Scale," where he and Ryen rate their concerns about various players and teams on a scale of 1 to 10.

Player Concerns [42:26 – 56:55]

• Stephen Curry: 9/10
  Bill expresses significant concern over Curry’s ability to secure a fifth title, questioning his longevity and the Warriors' sustainability.

• Jamal Murray: 8.5/10
  Ryen rates Jamal Murray highly worried due to recent performance dips and injury concerns. Bill shares an eight-and-a-half rating, citing Murray's importance to the Nuggets' success.

• Nikola Jokić:
  While primarily celebrated, underlying concerns about team support and future performance rates are discussed.

Team Concerns [56:55 – 58:12]

• Minnesota Timberwolves: 8.5/10
  Both hosts express worries about the Timberwolves' defensive consistency and team cohesion, especially with ongoing lineup changes.

• Philadelphia 76ers: 7/10
  Concerns revolve around Embiid’s commitment and team dynamics post-extension, impacting their playoff viability.

Notable Quotes:

• Bill Simmons: “Do you think he would ever not be on Denver? I don't think Curry will ever not be on Golden State, and I honestly don't think Tatum will ever not be on Boston” ([42:56]).
• Ryen Russillo: “He can unlock anything in every single game at that size in a way that I don't know that we've ever seen before” ([08:15]).

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Rather Have: Player and Team Preferences [83:01 – 99:15]

In the "Rather Have" segment, Bill and Ryen make choices between two options related to players, coaches, and sports entities.

Key Decisions:

1. Embiid or Kawhi Leonard:

   • Ryen: Prefers Embiid for his championship potential despite Kawhi’s prowess.
   • Bill: Agrees, citing Embiid's lack of a championship ring.

2. Jamal Murray or Damian Lillard:

   • Ryen: Chooses Damian Lillard for his consistent scoring and leadership.
   • Bill: Prefers Jamal Murray for his high-stakes playoff performances and potential.

3. Roger Goodell or Adam Silver:

   • Ryen: Favors Adam Silver due to NBA’s handling of various issues.
   • Bill: Prefers Roger Goodell, recognizing his influence and management style.

4. Landman or Yellowstone:

   • Ryen: Enthusiastic about "Yellowstone" for its drama and character development.
   • Bill: Appreciates "Landman" for its intense storytelling.

5. Sean Payton or Jim Harbaugh (Coaches):

   • Ryen: Chooses Jim Harbaugh for his coaching philosophy.
   • Bill: Agrees with Harbaugh, valuing his strategic approach.

Notable Quotes:

• Bill Simmons: “I would rather have Embiid beat Kawhi” ([83:19]).
• Ryen Russillo: “Damian Lillard will be hunted defensively” ([94:47]).

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Favorite Movie TV Girlfriends: Pop Culture Favorites [72:28 – 115:47]

Bill and Ryen shift gears to discuss their favorite fictional girlfriends from movies and TV shows, blending humor with personal anecdotes.

Key Discussions:

• Blake Lively’s Characters:
  Ryen reminisces about meeting a Blake Lively look-alike during a celebrity football game, highlighting her charm and on-screen presence.

• Succession and The Sopranos Comparisons:
  Both hosts compare their favorite TV dramas, praising "Succession" for its intricate storytelling and complex character interactions, akin to "The Sopranos."

• Character Preferences:
  They discuss various characters from shows like "Yellowstone," emphasizing traits that make certain fictional girlfriends memorable and relatable.

Notable Quotes:

• Ryen Russillo: “I think some people hate the Lakers, but I just do it in the context of sports hate” ([31:15]).
• Bill Simmons: “Favorite movie TV girlfriends... it's a part of pop culture that resonates with our listeners” ([72:53]).

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Closing Remarks and Future Episodes [115:47 – End]

Bill and Ryen wrap up the live show with final thoughts on Jokić’s performance and express gratitude to the Denver audience. They tease upcoming episodes, including their third podcast of the week featuring Packers vs. Lions analysis and more million-dollar picks on FanDuel.

Notable Quotes:

• Bill Simmons: “We love being here and hope you guys appreciate Jokic” ([115:47]).
• Ryen Russillo: “We'll see you at the gun” ([115:47]).

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Conclusion

This episode of The Bill Simmons Podcast offers a comprehensive celebration of Nikola Jokić's outstanding NBA performance, thoughtful assessments of current player and team standings through the "Worry Scale," engaging preference debates in "Rather Have," and lighthearted discussions on favorite fictional girlfriends. Bill and Ryen provide a blend of expert analysis, personal insights, and entertaining banter, making it a valuable listen for basketball enthusiasts and pop culture aficionados alike.

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Disclaimer: All quotes are attributed based on timestamps provided and aim to capture the essence of the conversation accurately.

Transcript

[Bill Simmons]

Coming up, Russell and I did a live show in Denver and you're about to listen to it next. This episode is brought to you by SimpliSafe. With the holidays coming up, the last thing you should be worrying about is keeping your home and loved ones safe. So don't get peace of mind and use Simplisafe. I have it in my house. Absolutely love it. I like the cameras. You need them for the holidays. Try out Simplisafe today and make sure your home is safe this holiday season. Right now, SimpliSafe is extending its Black Friday deal for my listeners this week only. Get 50% off any new system with a select professional monitoring [e-mail] BS that is SimpliSafe with two eyes. Simplisafe.com BS there's no safe like SimpliSafe. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. It's football season and Uber Eats is dropping undefeated deals on all your game day favorites this week. Score a free medium two topping Domino's Pizza with minimum purchase only on UberEats. And if you're craving even more, we've got you covered with game day and deals on pizza, burgers, tacos and more. Order UberEats now for game day terms, taxes and fees apply. See app for details. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. If you like our pods and our videos, please go check out the redesign for theringer.com because it's awesome. It was a long time coming. It's easier to read features and columns and pieces. It's easier to find your favorite writers. It's really easy to find your favorite shows and videos and some good sorting stuff. Some good pages for pods like mine or for the Rewatchables pod. So please go check it out. The ringer.com everybody did a great job. Congratulations. We are eight and a half years in with that website and couldn't be more proud of it. Go check out The Ringer Moves YouTube channel as well. Rewatchables has come back next week, the Bill Simmons YouTube channel where we run all the clips of videos from this podcast. Hey Million dollar picks. So I am going to do a podcast after Packers Lions tomorrow night so that we are ending up doing three episodes this week. The one today right now that you're listening to and then after that Packers Lions a reaction with some other stuff that I have banked that I'm pretty excited about. But I wanted to get a million dollar pick on the board for that game because I'm in Denver right now. FanDuel is legal here and I could not resist betting on the packers plus four and a half adjusted would love to throw at least 200 yards that is minus 101 as a parlay. We are putting $200,000 on that for million dollar picks purposes. Coming off the best week we had all season, we won $870,000 last week out of our seven big bets we hit six and we are up 1.213 million fake dollars for the year. Doing pretty well this year. So we're going to throw 200k on packers plus four and a half with love to throw for at least 200 yards and the rest of the picks will be in the third podcast of the week tomorrow night. What you're about to listen to is me and Ryan Rossillo at the Fillmore in Denver in front of an awesome crowd. So glad we did this. And if you want to hear two guys talk about Nicola Jokic for a couple of minutes, you've come to the right place. Rossello and Simmons live from Denver. Next, first, our friends from Pearl Jib. I should have worked out today. I feel feel scrawny. Thanks for coming out. Thank you to State Farm because I always forget to thank them before we start this stuff. But oh, and Starry. Thank you to Starry. Here's how this show happened. I texted Brisillo and I said jokic is in playing Golden State in the NBA cup game on a Tuesday live show. And he was like, fuck yeah. Why do you love Denver so much?

[Ryan Rosillo]

You know, I think it was. I had a bunch of friends. Like there's a big Vermont, Colorado thing right there you go. And I think once they were like, all right, I've kind of done the JV version of things in Vermont. I'm gonna head out to Colorado. And when I left ESPN and I was kind of going like, all right, Manhattan beach or Denver, it was like really close.

[Bill Simmons]

Was it a toss up?

[Ryan Rosillo]

It was. It was ocean or friendship. And then friendship lost out to the ocean.

[Bill Simmons]

I think that people in Denver, every time I'm here, they're disarmingly nice. That's what I, that's what I notice over and over again. I'm like, oh man, people are just nice here. But then I wonder.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I think those are my friends, by the way.

[Bill Simmons]

Then I wonder if it was just their stone. I can't.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Friendship, friendship.

[Bill Simmons]

So we're going to try to do a version of the pod that we would do on Sunday nights because we haven't done Sunday nights this year, because we should wait till when the. When the football season is over. Yeah, we have a lot of basketball stuff to talk about, but the real reason we're here, let's be honest. Rosella and I both love Nicole Jokic. We're not going to hide it. We love how the guy plays. He's about as reliable as it gets from an entertainment standpoint. Not just sports, music, movies, tv. I feel like succession got to this point for me. Succession episodes where I was like, I just know this is going to be a good episode. We just love Jokic. And we wanted to surround ourselves with 1100 people who also loved Jokic.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Which.

[Bill Simmons]

Is why this first segment is going to be called Jokic Porn. We're just kind of pouring it up.

[Ryan Rosillo]

We don't have a slideshow for this show.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, my God, he did. We were sitting behind the scores table yesterday, and he came up, and we were just kind of marveling at him. We're like, look at that guy. Oh, man. Just amazing. Where do you want to start? Do you want to start with notes from last night? Do you want to go big picture? Where do you want to go?

[Ryan Rosillo]

The only thing I would say is that, you know, Bill and I have been doing this, whether it's together or separately, for a really long time that I know personally, like players that I start to like or start to hate have a lot to do with how the fans talk to us. So there's just players I know nothing about, and I despise them just because of what their fan base has said the entire time. And Denver and Nuggets fans are seriously, maybe the only, like, modern history, intensely annoying fan base about one guy. And you were totally right about it. So I think that needs to be said, because more often than not, I'm like, nah, you were wrong. You guys are just annoying about the whole thing. And I don't think it was ever that we didn't. They just got to appreciate him, I think, quicker than we did. Because you were watching it happen and whether it was the draft, and you're like, hey, that fat guy's kind of, like, fun to watch. Yeah, but what, like, what's he really going to be? And then you're like, oh, he's going to be, like, without question. I mean, the list starts at one. And I don't even. Like, I love Giannis. We all love Luca and everything, but the. The gap between him and the next guy right now I think is significant.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, this is great. I'm already having a great Time. I think what's crazy about this year is he somehow got better. I mean, he already won three MVPs in a title. See, I told you. We're going to porn it up with Jokic. And I think the best way a friend of mine described it, and I'm going to steal it from him. Where Jokic was always playing chess when he was out there, right? He was always like two, three moves ahead. He was just so smart. It was always so admirable to watch how he just processed the game. But then Minnesota, Boo, Minnesota threw some stuff at him, right? They were like, yeah, we're actually fine with you taking those threes. We're going to beat you up. We're just going to throw big guys at you. We're going to try to wear you down. And now this season, it feels like he's moved into this speed chess mode where it's not just chess. He's now solving stuff instantaneously. And watching him in person last night, Golden State was like, you're not doing the thing you always do. We're not giving you 14 assists tonight. We're going to take away everybody else, and you're going to have to do the thing you hate to do, which is score a lot. And he's like, all right, fine, fuck. And ends up with 38. He's 6 for 7 in the fourth quarter, makes all the big shots, but I just feel like he's solving stuff faster. Does that make sense?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, because I think he knows he needs to. And I think that first week, like, I both hated it and loved it. Like, we all get geared up for the start of the season. We all know we were worried about the bench. Look at me. I'm saying we. Like, I actually moved here, but when you. You knew there were going to be some serious problems with the depth and letting KCP go and the draft picks, you know, still kind of like a massive question mark about whether or not they're viable rotation pieces. And he took, I think, 13 shots in that opener against OKC, and they get smoked. The next two games, he takes 27 and 26 shots. And I was so happy about it because it was like this immediate thing within 48 hours where he went, I guess this is what I'm going to have to do. I mean, he's not shooting it that much, but he's shooting it more now this season than at any other point in his career. And yet his efficiency is in line with the best season he's ever had, which is probably the one he had two years ago. So he can unlock anything in every single game at that size in a way that I don't know that we've ever seen before.

[Bill Simmons]

I hadn't seen him in Denver. I've seen him obviously all over the place, but not here. He did two things last night. You know, you could pick up most of it on tv. One of the things was he was just trying to read what Golden State was going to do from what Kerr was telling his players. So he would like run down and he'd be in the paint on the Golden State side just watching Kerr, what he was saying and what he was flashing. And then he was yelling to his teammates, they're running five, three. And Kerr would be like, what the fuck? Like you're cheating. He was getting bad, but he was calling out all their plays, everything they're doing with Curry, which has been a recurring theme. So that was one. The other one they're up to. There's like what, 16 seconds left, they're playing keep away. And he gets the ball at the top of the key. Normally when the guy gets it, they either throw it back out or they dribble out. They're just trying to. They know they're going to get fouled. And he was like, oh, they're going to foul me. I'm actually going to lurch forward, drive into this guy and see if I can get a three point play, which I don't think I'd ever seen anyone processed it that fast. So two little things. But we left, we were just like beaming. We didn't even know what to do. We were like, that was amazing. It was like the Chris Farley show with Paul Bacardi. Remember when we saw Jokic? That was awesome.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. If he had been in town and would have declined the request because he would have if we would ever get the chance. Like, I think I would be such a loser in that interview. Remember when you did that thing? Like, what? What were you thinking about when you did it? And I think, honestly, I think the hard part with it too. And it's the same back to his draft thing. Like when the draft comes around, I'm an athlete snob. And you go, I don't know, is this going to work? And then it starts working and then you start comparing them. And we had all those nasty MVP conversations, which just made me root for him, I think even more because it just was ridiculous. Like some of the stuff. And I know it turns into propaganda and it becomes really political and it's like, okay, but if any of your points are tearing this guy down, like, you're just. You're not. You're either not watching or you're not being fair, or you're not being honest, or you can't see the things. And I think it's such a visual thing with him that we've talked about in the past is other basketball players have done things that are just aesthetically more pleasing. I've seen him get back in transition where I thought he was going to have a heart attack. I was like, does he have. Does he have, like, polio? Like, what the fuck is wrong with him right now? And. And yet he's always in position. He knows everybody, everybody, what they're going to be doing ahead of time. And, you know, when I say nobody's unlocked the game at his size, I mean, certainly LeBron, and I'm just giving. Because Jokic has got an inch on him or two, and then magic the same thing. But, like, to be straight up a center and then know, okay, well, if they're doubling me, then it's all of these things. If they're not doubling me, he's just sitting there in the triple threat at the free throw line, going up against TJD and he's just. He's just been like, all right, if you're going to give me one on one, and I'm just going to just jab step you and hit this free throw. Like, I would like a night where he just did it 35 times. Like, score 60, right?

[Bill Simmons]

They won by four last night. He played 40 minutes and was plus 23. So try to figure that one out. They were minus 19 when he didn't play well.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Those first three minutes of the fourth quarter, as you know, are the most horrifying.

[Bill Simmons]

Just panicking.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Like, there are horror movies that are more fun than those three minutes of every fourth quarter where you're like, they. They were minus eight. In those three minutes, I'm like, golden State has to win this. And they won it. And then they still lose the game. Cause he comes back in one thing.

[Bill Simmons]

Sorry to get big picture on this, but one thing I was thinking with him, there's still, like, mystery with him. I don't know a lot about him. And people are trying to figure out, like, NBA ratings are going down a little bit. What does this mean? Do people like the product as much? Is it too easy to follow the sport without actually watching the games game in and game out? But I do think a piece of it is. There's no mystery with Any of these guys, they're on social media, you know, they're doing, like, the infomercial documentaries about themselves. They're all over the place. They're super available, and I feel like I know all of them. And when you think, like, when we were growing up, we didn't know anything about anybody we watched. And Jokic is, like, one of the last. I know he's got two brothers. I know he likes horses. I know he goes to Serbia as soon as the season ends, and that's it. Like, I don't even know. Like, what kind of car does he drive? None. Nothing, Right. What do you know? Do you know anything other than that?

[Ryan Rosillo]

I know. I think it pisses everybody else off that this guy is this dominant and there's not going to be a workout program that he's going to share.

[Bill Simmons]

Right?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right. Like, there's not going to be a mama mentality rip off of Jokic. That it's like, you know, I remember. I know Mike Singer wrote the book about him, and I was listening to an interview that he did, so there were some excerpts, and it was. He hated practice. He didn't want to do any of these things. So it's like the opposite of everything that you would tell your kid. Like, this guy hated all of the extra stuff, and yet he's this dominant. But it's about his instincts and his vision and just simple things. Like watching people play basketball, like I have now for, like, 40 years, and you watch the ball come out of his hands and, like, even when it's off, it's like. No, it's just soft. It's perfectly soft. And it, like, cuddles with the rim a little bit, and then it falls back in. It's his hands. Like, I know that it was the water polo thing, but, like, however he was taught to look at the game, it's really special stuff because he just sees it in a way that you have to kind of be born with that. I just don't. I don't even know if that can be taught.

[Bill Simmons]

See, I told you it was going to be Jokic porn. You guys didn't believe me. You guys were like, ah, they'll do five minutes. Yeah, it would be interesting, like, if Jokic started doing stuff that the other players do have, startling would be. Whereas, like, Jokic just formed a production company. Like, what, he wants to make independent movies.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I want to tell stories about underserved stories. Right. Or he just. He has an IT band thing on Instagram. All of a sudden, he's running no days off and you're like, what?

[Bill Simmons]

Jokic just bought a women's soccer team. He did big picture. Well, it's 20 games. We're not going to do the. He's going to win the MVP. He's certainly on pace. He's averaging 30 and 13 and 10. He's shooting 56%. He's shooting 52% from three, which is more than half, in case you can't do math. And if he gets a fourth MVP here, now we're in the club with Jordan, LeBron, Bill Russell, Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Will Chamberlain. And that's it. What's interesting, two things are in play now. Well, one, he's kind of clinched the best guy of the 2000s because now.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well, we have some time still.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, we got. So when we're halfway through the decade, we're heading toward the second half. I don't know who could make a run at him in the second half. If you just look at the candidates, like the resume he already has. If he won four MVPs, who would be able to match that in the second half of the decade? We're talking. This is a latas for Lamella ball, is my point.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, he has some work to do, you know, scoring a lot. I think we'll get to him maybe later in the show, but. Yeah, you're right. I mean, that's kind of why it gets back to even. I've never rooted for the Nuggets necessarily. Like, I'm never. I don't have some thing that back in the day. Yeah, I would have probably started two years ago and tapped out after this off season. But.

[Bill Simmons]

That'S coming up later, too.

[Ryan Rosillo]

There could be somebody that gets. Well, you're right. We're halfway through it. So who gets a second ring? That would be the dumb ring count thing. That gets in the way, I think, of just being honest about who players are sometimes. So you're right. You might be.

[Bill Simmons]

There have to be a guy that has to. That is in their 20s that makes a huge leap over the next three years. So, like, I'm not. Well, Wemby. Would he have enough time? So you guys are going to laugh, but the only guy I think could. Could be in the running is my guy, Jason Tatum. Yeah, I said it. Getting booed. Just, just. If the Celtics won a bunch of titles, that's it. But I don't think that's going to happen. All right.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Is Tatum a more athletic Jokic?

[Bill Simmons]

There's no bad idea. Tomorrow's Pod, come on.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, but no. No one has ever. Look, Tatum, I think is actually underrated at this point, but don't worry, don't worry, don't worry. Wow. He's never once and never will be considered the best player in the world.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. That's why it's not going to happen. Best center since Kareem is in play for him too. But yeah, I was looking back at the day.

[Ryan Rosillo]

What else is in play you're good at?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I was.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I think you update this stuff a lot. I do, but I like it. You're keeping track.

[Bill Simmons]

It's one of my things. When I'm bored on an airplane, when we haven't taken off yet, I'm like, I think I'll work on the pantheon.

[Ryan Rosillo]

How many times have you ranked the top 20 players of all time in your life?

[Bill Simmons]

I just did it four hours ago.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He sent me the text.

[Bill Simmons]

It's interesting. I mean, doing best player by decade isn't totally fair because sometimes people can peak starting in the middle of decade or whatever. But if you go back like 20 tens is LeBron and Curry and probably in that order, right?

[Ryan Rosillo]

It's LeBron. Yeah. LeBron, Curry. We knew the ring count thing, but, you know, even if Curry was winning MVPs and I thought he had a better season.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Somebody at a sports bar could make a Curry case. He wouldn't be right in 2000s. It's Duncan and Kobe and that's a bloodbath argument that we're not gonna have right now.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Shouldn't be.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I have Duncan, but other people would say Kobe. 1990s is MJ alone. There's no other person in the combo. 80s is Magic and Bird. 70s is Kareem. Is it Magic and 60s is Russell. Wilt.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Longer run those Pistons finals.

[Bill Simmons]

Kareem in the 70s, Russell Will in the 60s. The point is, Jokic doesn't even really have a rival for the 2000s yet, which I think is interesting. I guess it would be Giannis if he could.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I think Giannis is the second best player. You know, as much as I'm like in love with the Jokic part of it, there's a health element to the Giannis discussion, How he'll age the playoffs.

[Bill Simmons]

Last couple of years were tough.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. But.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, here's the problem. Dramatic pause. I think he's had the worst luck with teammates of any great player. If you're talking about the top 15, never played with an NBA guy. Murray gets hurt when he got hurt, cost two playoffs. Now he's got Murray and Porter taking up 40% of the captain. And I hate to say it, I hope he's not here. I doubt he is, but the owner was fucking cheapskate. Like, spend some money. Give Nikola Jokic on your team. You have one of the best 15 players of all time in his prime. Go into the second apron, motherfucker.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So you have four. You have him 14th as of today for all time. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I need to see how this plays out, but he is in the 9 to 13 range for me now.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You could argue, you could make an argument for him as the 9th best player of all time today, depending if.

[Bill Simmons]

He wins a fourth mvp. I think it's in play. Here's where can we hear the eight.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And see who he's hypothetically in range.

[Bill Simmons]

I'll give you the list just because you guys all Jordan first because he's the goat until I die. LeBron, Russell, Kareem. That would be the Mount Rushmore, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Wilt, and then it's like I originally had Curry, Kobe, west, and then Hakeem, Shaq, Moses, and Jokic is somewhere in that last six. But if he wins a fourth MVP and he carries this Denver team to like the Western finals or better, with what we watched last night, where he can't even come out of the game for two and a half minutes, like, he literally couldn't come out of the gate. The mike balloon in a call timeout because the team was cratering. Um, so I think he's somewhere in that range. But I think for me, just as somebody who's watched basketball my whole life, I like, he's. He does the same stuff Bird of Magic did, and he's been doing it now for six, seven years.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Do you think he. See, this is the ring counting thing? Because this is it.

[Bill Simmons]

But this matters. The ring part matters, though. All you guys won rings.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Especially when you put together that list. I mean, Moses just has the one, right. Hakeem's got the two. So then Shaq's got three or four. Right. He has the fourth.

[Bill Simmons]

West only had one, though.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, but the west one, when you're losing to the Celtics every single year in the Finals, like, I almost think we should just round it up to three for him.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

When yoga, when it's all said and done, if he stays on this pace, like say another four years, you know, as the mvp, I think the simpletons will just count the rings and be like, you can't put them ahead of those guys. But from just an impacting a game at that level. And again, you know, we're assuming a lot in the next few years, but the guy stays healthy. It's not like he's this wiry dude who has all these muscle pulls all the time. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, what happens if he does? Remember Larry Bird that one year when he came. I think it was the 87, 88.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Not as well as you do.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, all of a sudden there was the big off season storyline was Larry Bird has quit drinking beer and he's in phenomenal shape. And he showed up for the season. He had this follow up two hand dunk at a preseason game. We're like, oh, my God, the legend. He's in shape. And then he got hurt within.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I don't know if I believe the quit drinking beer part.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, probably not, but I didn't think to me, Jokic, like, apparently has never really lifted. I don't even know what his off season change program would be.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Whatever he's doing, it's fine. Yeah, keep it going, Jokic. Sometimes I think the guys. It's like the old quarterback thing where Dilfer used to tell me, like, I wanted to come in like 20 pounds overweight. He's like, I wanted a little spare tire down there so that I could. As I tapered off, I at least had something to take the damage. I'm not necessarily saying, like, that's what.

[Bill Simmons]

Does that too, I think.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And Bead's been trying. He's like, this is ridiculous. You know, those. Those next five guys that when you get to eight or whatever, like, it's just a player. I don't know. I mean, it's tough for me to put anybody above Duncan just because of how perfect he was and how sustained it was and how long it went. But the fact I'm even suggesting it's possible is the win as of today.

[Bill Simmons]

So you loved. You love Moses and you love Takim.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I love Moses and Shaq.

[Bill Simmons]

But at least swimming in that, I.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Don'T think I appreciated Shaq enough. But I was also like a shithead kid. And he was on the Lakers.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, we held some weird things against Shaq where he was like, he made a rap album. Like, what's he doing?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Foo schnitz.

[Bill Simmons]

You made Shazam or Kazam, whatever that movie was. You're like, what a dick.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And then Dwight tried to do all of it. We're like, all right, you're definitely.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, you. You were the dick.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I actually appreciate Shaq, like, way more now than I think I did. And that might have been just a Boston Weirdo thing that some of us grow out of.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, last section of Jokic porn. We were, we were saying, like, we try not to have biases, especially because we have votes for Omba. And, and I, I like to think I'm level headed even like with the Celtics. Like I know when the Celtics. No, listen, let me, let me talk.

[Ryan Rosillo]

This out right down the middle.

[Bill Simmons]

There's been seasons where I'm like, they don't have it this year. Something's wrong. I don't like this. Like, I try to be objective. Um, it's really hard for me to be objective with, with Jokic. And I think it is you too. So what are your other actual basketball biases that you can admit? Do you want to go back and forth? Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So we're admitting that we both want Jokic to get that second ring. So the commoners, as long as it's.

[Bill Simmons]

Not at the expense of the Celtics. Yeah. Like if the Celtics can't win, I would hope that he would be the one that won. Would be my bias.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. Cause like the Curry fourth ring for me was such a big deal and him too. But I felt in that order, I felt like it just changed. I don't even know that that many people hate Curry. I mean, if you want to find hate, it's pretty easy to find right now. But with Curry, it just kind of changed. I think it changed a lot of the way he was looking at.

[Bill Simmons]

He needed it. Yeah, it was very similar to like the John Elway super bowl. And oh, I forgot we're in Denver the John L. Way Super Bowl. But John Elway was like this. Stats couldn't get it done. And they could drag a team to the precipice, but not. And then all of a sudden he won. And we never talked about it again. And Curry was the same thing. It's like, oh, well, he had Duran. And that one year in 2015, all the Cavs got hurt. And there was always an excuse. Now there's no excuses. The NBA hit the quartermark of the season. And FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook, wants you to catch all the action. They're trying to help you right now. FanDuel giving everyone three months of NBA League pass. All you have to do is place any $5 bet on the NBA. You can jump in on the NBA cup. Cause we know that's coming in a couple days. I like Houston over Golden State. They're minus three and a half. I just think that's a bad matchup for Golden State. And I'll tell you. I'll tell you something else. I kind of like Houston win the NBA cup at plus 700. I think they can hang with all of these teams. Anyway. Next time you get a hunch on who's going to win or how many points a player will score, you can watch your picks come to life live by visiting FanDuel.com B.S. you can get three months of NBA League Pass courtesy of FanDuel. Make every moment more with FanDuel official sportsbook partner the NBA. You must be 21 + in President select states or 18 + and President DC. After a three month free trial, the full price of League Pass will be automatically charged monthly. Cancel anytime. No refunds. Terms, restrictions and embargoes apply. Limit one pass per customer. See [e-mail] gambling problem. Call 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com this episode is brought to you by the all new reimagined Nissan Kicks. From the bold new exterior to the performance and tech features like intelligent all wheel drive and a Bose Personal plus sound system. Cars where I live I live in the Los Angeles area and cars are one of the most important things you can have cause you're in them a lot cause you gotta drive around all over the place. You know what's fun? To have a nice car for an everyday commute, to have music and the ability to do hands free stuff and just to feel safe you can do it. Drive the all new reimagined Nissan Kicks today. Head over to Nissan USA to learn more. Bose Personal plus sound system is an available feature. Bose is a registered trademark in the Bose Corporation. Intelligent all wheel drive cannot prevent collisions or provide enhanced traction in all conditions. Always monitor traffic and weather conditions. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. State Farm helps you score an affordable price when you choose to bundle home and auto insurance with the personal price plan. Bundling home and auto, that's a pro move. Just another way you can save on your insurance needs. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. All right, so bias, give me another Bias.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Let's give you. I'll give you a small one. I'm rooting for the Pistons. I have a lot invested in my K to Cunningham position. I think that that's come around after Some scary, like early developments. Jade and Ivy being allowed to play in front of Killian Hayes seems to be the right decision. I wonder if Monty Williams has watched one Pistons game on league pass because I know he didn't watch one before he got the head coaching job. If I own the Pistons, I might have been like, we're going to fire. You're going to keep the 75 million, but you're going to be an analyst for 45 games this year.

[Bill Simmons]

Killing Hayes is not in the league.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No. And they had the same record as the Wizards last year. Think about that. The same record. And like nobody wants to hear. Your Pistons are sneaky. Kind of good. You know, we never did that monologue luckily. But I would go how. There's no way, like just. Even if all these guys are morons, they're way more talented. There's no way they're the Wizards. And we've seen with a little shooting balance, a little spacing that if you don't lace them up for the Pistons on the wrong night.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So I like seeing a team that is. They're the more like. I just. I just like them being somewhat more entertaining because I probably watch too many Pistons game because it's always the first game on in the west coast. Like a 4 o'clock when I don't want to be inside my first bias.

[Bill Simmons]

That I'll admit won't be a surprise to any of you. Hates a strong word with sports. I always like the word sports hate. I don't actually hate anything. So it's in the context of sports hate. I hate the Lakers. I just. I just do. And I think it's healthy. I think it's a good thing. I think there should be teams that you just don't. Mike. And part of it's their fans. Like they started out well, right. First couple weeks and their fans got super chirpy about how we took the under. Right. Yeah, they lost by 40 tonight. Maybe like 41. But it's just more, it's more fun for me personally when they're not doing well and I might be a bad person. Not going to apologize.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It is weird. You know, when you're from the Northeast, you don't think anybody cares about sports as much as you do. And there's some elements of that. But then when you go out to LA and you're like, oh, these guys are all soft or whatever. The Lakers thing is very real.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, they have, they have good, passionate fans. I gotta hand it to them.

[Ryan Rosillo]

The other thing I've never Understood is that there's just Kobe fans that aren't Lakers fans. Yeah. They just hang out, you know, And I remember there was like a Lakers. Like, it was a big Lakers game, and I think I was recording it, so I was like, I'm gonna go out, get outside. I'm gonna go to the beach. And then I just see all these guys in Kobe jerseys at the beach. And I'm thinking, like, this is a huge game.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

What are you guys doing? It's like, well, you know, talking Kobe. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

One bias we have together is.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So there was nothing else. That Lakers thing, there's no. Like, is there a version of that that you want? Like, do you have kind of a thing you don't want to share what you hope happens this season.

[Bill Simmons]

The Lakers panic trade would be really fun. Like, if they talk themselves into, you know, Zach Levine's contract, something like that. Just, like, taking more money on to try to save. But I think they know. I think they're so bad on defense. They're one of the top four worst defenses in the league.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That'll be a weird time, though, before the deadline. Because when you're 30 and you're LeBron, or, hell, even when you're 35 in LeBron, you can kind of get away with putting the pressure on them. But so far, the Lakers have kind of shown like, yeah, we're not. Like, the picks became eligible. They didn't do anything. I actually think they did a great job in the draft. There's.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, me too.

[Ryan Rosillo]

There's a version of a rotation here that should work where they're in the playoffs. But if they go through a weird stretch and they don't, they're not active or anything. The subliminal messages and that kind of stuff, like, you're going to have a good couple of weeks.

[Bill Simmons]

If you're a scoring point guard or a scoring wing and the Lakers are on your schedule, you're fucking pumped. You're like calling family members, like, hey, make sure you watch tonight. I'm going to have 48. One of our biases we share, okay? We both irrationally root for Scoot Henderson race, so. And I have a pretty big scoop position. And unfortunately, we live in the era of people could just cut out clips from your video podcast and then torment you with them over the next two to 20 years. And we had some. Some pretty passionate pro Scoot takes during the draft, and they're not aging well.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You got off to a good start. I thought he looked bigger. I'm like, this is great. They're bringing off the bench. Sort of like a mental reset. The numbers are just as bad as they were last year.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I even got so desperate, I called, like, one GM that I'm. I'm pretty close with what I don't think. Lies. And I was like, you like Scoot too, though, right? He's like, is this off the record? Yeah, like, no, I just. Just tell me that you liked him too, right? It's like, well, a team took him third, so I think a lot of people liked him. I'm not giving up, but I. I'm not giving up. I'm preparing myself for the day I have to. Like, when I had Jalen Suggs on last year, because Jalen Suggs had. Whatever it was, it was like, the worst offensive rating of any single player his rookie year. Like, anybody that actually played. And then I was looking up historically, like, who else had done it? Scoot did. And then I was like, oh, well, Jalen Suggs did, you know? And then we had Jalen Suggs on after that, and he's turned it around. And I brought up that, like, stat profile to him. And then I was like, what do you think about Scoot? And he was like, raving about Scoot. He's like, he's going to be so good. I was like, all these guys. What is he going to say? Like, no, he actually sucks, dude.

[Bill Simmons]

So you don't think, like, eight years from now we'll be in Portland doing a Scoot porn intro to our live podcast? Probably not ruling that out.

[Ryan Rosillo]

We probably get the venue now.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, if tickets are available. What else? Give me another bias.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I'm not sad about the Sixers. And it actually circles back to the Embiid Jokic propaganda year, where I don't. I don't even know who I'm really mad at. You know, I think Darryl's a great gm. He and I don't exactly. I don't think we like each other that much anymore, but it's okay. We'll get through it. But they did such a good job, and yet all of us that have been around it long enough, you're like, all right, I can see the good version of this, but are you investing in the right people? But you also do have a choice to invest in other people, and you don't. And then when Embiid took the extension like that, and it was kind of lost in all the mayhem, I think it may have been lost in the Woj wake of him being. You know. And then the Embiid Extension happens and it's almost one of those extensions where when it's done, you wonder if you're the team. You're like, he took it like he was like, yeah, sure, with tack on three more years.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, keep adding them. I. We were texting a lot during that time and the Sixers were checking a lot of boxes that I would say would, would. I would call resilo trigger boxes. The guy saying just openly that it's all about April now and not playing back to backs anymore. The off season workout stuff, the victory lapping before we've seen the team yet is when that will trigger you from time to time. What else did they do?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well, then they also had Embiid. Everybody kind of knew that he wasn't really the locked in guy that you need to be like, if you look, it's a very simple timeline in the NBA. Top draft pick, score a bunch of points, you're going to get your max extension. And then it's like year seven or eight. I think something kicks in for a lot of the special players. We're like, okay, maybe it's not about all the points and I'm going to get the accolades, I'm going to make all star and all this stuff. But like, I almost have to figure out a way to be a more productive basketball player. That's not just about the stat line. And I think there's a lot of stat line players out there that people talk about being really special, that I'm like, I don't know. I know they're good at scoring, but I don't know that they're great at like all the things that you need.

[Bill Simmons]

Do they affect winning?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right. And as talented as Embiid is, and I've always really liked his game. I loved him before the draft, but we knew there was the weird injury stuff with him. I actually always loved his personality. I like that he cried after the Kawhi shot. Losing to Toronto. When he got shit for that. I was like, that's ridiculous. Like this, this matters to him. Yeah, that's a great sign. So there was all these things for him that I was kind of rooting for. And then you started hearing more and more of like, he's actually not taking this stuff serious enough. And you were wondering if that story was going to get out and then it gets out within the own team meeting. Leaking.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And then he's like, I don't know who said this is like, you know what?

[Bill Simmons]

Mad about the leak.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, you can be mad about the leak, but be Mad like you. At some point, you have to get more mad at yourself. And I know he's had all these different injuries and all these things, but I've just. There was like a tipping point for me and you. When I did the preview show with you, where I went, yeah, I cleared.

[Bill Simmons]

The floor for you because I remember.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Zach low, like, yeah, I just was waving everybody to the side. Yeah, he was like, ISO, look just like lamelo. But I remember Zach Lowe, who we love, like, did his top five players, and it was this, like, unarguable list of the five guys of Jokic, Giannis, Luka, sga, and Embiid. And I went, I think we need to stop just penciling him in. Despite that, we know what he was statistically to start that year. And I think people are starting to like, it's not like, hey, finally, we're all on the same page. You're realizing. But, you know, get out of the second round. That's it.

[Bill Simmons]

We don't. We don't value durability enough when we talk about players is one of my big lessons of the 2000s. That's why Boston, it's all hypothetical and not.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, those two guys for Boston play.

[Bill Simmons]

They take it seriously. Yeah. They want to show up. They play back to backs. Quick biases for me. I want Seattle to have an NBA team again, and I'll root for that team. And along what you just said, if you're not in shape, it's really hard for me to like you that much. And I feel that way about Luca, too.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Thanks, man.

[Bill Simmons]

No, not you. But I just feel like when these guys are making the money they're making, it'd be nice if, If. If you worked out in the off season. Doesn't seem crazy to me. Right. It's your job, which is weird because.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Ben Simmons works out more than anybody.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. My other bias is quickly. I still defend Kevin Durant. I don't know why. It's like being in a bad marriage. Like, he's social. And I'm like, you don't understand. He was upset they lost last night.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Because if you wanted to just like, if you were forced in, like, debate class, like, you have to be the anti Durant guy.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

This is going to be easy, actually.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And I don't want to be that guy. So I understand that bias.

[Bill Simmons]

I have two more biases. What do you have before?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, one of them is yours, too. I hate heliocentric basketball. I'm just never going to like it. I'm just not. And I really respect what Harden the Clippers are doing this year. It's. It's way better than I thought. The overrunner was 37 and a half. They I, that was almost a lock for me. And he's playing great. I just don't personally like watching it that much and that's not going to change. And then my last one is I want Jordan to stay the goat. And I just. I just feel like he's the best. And the years pass and people forget and I just think he still levitates above anyone I've seen in person. Even Jokic.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I have one last one little off the menu. I was so happy that you were able to witness not just the greatness of Jokic. It wasn't the best Curry game, but it's all right. We'll get through it. To see Tyler Ford handle a review, he's. He's my favorite official in the NBA and we had a front row seat to it. And I kept nudging the group. I'm like, watch this. He doesn't fuck around.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I didn't realize you had a referee bias.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, well, I mean, he knows how much I love him. Like, he gave me the shout out before the game starts and my friends are like, the official say hi to you. And yeah, he asked us when the.

[Bill Simmons]

Sunday pod was coming back. I was fired up.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. I think the other guy, I tweeted a picture of being like, I like French fried potatoes or whatever. And then I was like, then. So then he was kind of like, fuck him, Priscillo. But Tyler, you know, Bill Kennedy, I think, has a SAG card when he's doing the reviews, the reviews, and he's.

[Bill Simmons]

Doing a one man show, right?

[Ryan Rosillo]

And then Tyler Ford is like, efficiency, efficiency, efficiency.

[Bill Simmons]

If you don't know who Tyler Ford is, he looks a lot like Jim from the town, which is one of the reasons Ricilla loves him.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It's also a plus because he looks.

[Bill Simmons]

Like he's going to at any time. Say, who's KY taking? All right, new gimmick here. We're moving out of yoga porn. We are moving to what we're calling the worry scale, where I'm going to listen.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You were having fun the first 30 minutes.

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't want to lose the crowd, but he might be coming up at some point. The worry scale. 1 to 10. Curry ever getting a fifth title? 1 to 10. How worried are you?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well, worried, because it's probably not going to happen. But the fourth one, like, I don't worry about his next ring the way I would about somebody who I think deserves the recognition.

[Bill Simmons]

Ties Kobe though.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. But well, I guess the number one option thing. Kobe was the number one option for.

[Bill Simmons]

What, two of them?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Two of them?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Two for Steph.

[Bill Simmons]

I. I'm a nine out of ten. I don't know how they do it with this Warriors.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I don't know how they do it either. Do you think he'll ever be on another team?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You think Lakeup is just.

[Bill Simmons]

I gotta say I. I think. Not to suck up to the crowd, but I don't think Jokic is ever not going to be on Denver. I don't think. I don't think Curry will ever not be on Golden State and I honestly don't think Tatum will ever not be on Boston. I think. I think those are the three that I see stay in whole career. Luca. Luca is an interesting one. I don't. I don't know if I would bet on Luca staying in Dallas.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I keep waiting for the first mad international guy. Cause it doesn't. It hasn't really happened yet.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Who's a bet?

[Ryan Rosillo]

I mean Nurkic seems to get upset but he's not really on the level of what we're talking about here. But when you look at like the next pissed off NBA star that forces his way out of something. I don't say this because I think it'll never happen, but it's just something that you notice that it. It hasn't happened yet. I think you're nuts to put Tatum in that group of the other two guys. By the way.

[Bill Simmons]

You think he would leave?

[Ryan Rosillo]

I just think it's. He's still so young. Never on another team.

[Bill Simmons]

I just think those would be my three if I had to pick three.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Trey young Hawks. Cause if they haven't traded him yet.

[Bill Simmons]

Lamelo Charlotte next worry scale Houston fucking up this cool Rockets roster that we love. How worried are you on a scale.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Of 1 to 10? It's a 3 because it's an awesome problem to have but I like you. They're one of my favorite league pass. They might be my go to.

[Bill Simmons]

No, they're the mvp.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right. Because I'm not only entertained, I'm trying to figure out how they're going to figure it out. And ime's the best coach for this because he's just like hey guess what? You're benched for the fourth quarter.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And he'll bench Jalen Green, he'll bench Jabari. They have to play Van Vliet, they kind of make this defensive decision where they'll go with Thompson over Jalen in some of these spots. Then Tar Eason comes in and wreck shop and they're like, all right, we don't need Jabari spacing. So there's lineup stuff that they're matching there. Long term, I don't know how. Like, they're probably better off getting out of the depth for the next guy. I don't know who the next guy is. What will happen is you're going to end up ruining the value of your own guys because they're just not going to be enough minutes for dudes.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So it's a concern, but not concerning enough that, look, they're winning games too. So it's like a three.

[Bill Simmons]

So the Rockets, they're in the third in the NBA Cup. They play Golden State, and I think they're 7 to 1 on FanDuel to win it. I think they're a pretty live bet. I was. I watched their OKC game on Sunday, the next day because it was against football. And they reminded me a lot of Minnesota last year where we. Nobody wanted to say that Minnesota was ready in like December, January, but they kind of were. And it was like, wow, this would be soon. And then it just kept going. And I think Houston, that's how I feel when I watch them. They're so good defensively and they're so athletic and they have so many different lineups that they're just a bitch to play.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I love that game because it was one of those, you know, we've had some really cool regular season games and I feel like Houston's in a lot of them just because of the effort alone, but with no Chet. Like, I didn't. That game will be so different with the chat decision and how they want to pull Shingun away. Or maybe they close with Jabari. Like, that's what I love is that email's like, I know where you were drafted. I know you get paid this. You don't get paid.

[Bill Simmons]

You could care less.

[Ryan Rosillo]

This is what I'm going to do tonight. And it's. He's actually the tough love, no bullshit thing is the best version when normally it's like the handholder for all the young guys.

[Bill Simmons]

That game, if you guys didn't see it. You ever see those Instagram videos when the two cats are fighting and it's just like amazing to watch the. How athletic the cats are and you're like, oh my God. Well, they just jumped off a table.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You watching a Lot of cat videos.

[Bill Simmons]

I. I think the algorithm knows that. I like them, but they picks up.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Your phone like, I'm no longer worried.

[Bill Simmons]

But they were just so young and athletic. It was. It was a treat to watch. Next worry Scale Towns in New York. I was probably an 8 before the season. I think I'm like a 2 now. Seems like they like him and he's playing really well.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I think the defensive part of it, though, like, their identity, their identity's entirely changed. So maybe that's what happens when you.

[Bill Simmons]

Trade for Carl Anthony Towns.

[Ryan Rosillo]

True. Which is funny enough, which is funny that he's not on Minnesota. And now their defense isn't what it's supposed to be, which doesn't really make a ton of sense, even though I think, like, look, nobody stops Jokic, but in that series, like, he bodied him up, and the fact that it stayed in front of him is better for Towns than having to move around. The Mitchell thing is another one of those things. I can't wait to see, because Tibbs won't care. The Cats already paid.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You know, he didn't. He may. He might have closing lineups where he's like, I don't want spacing. I don't want five out. I want some resistance at the rim. Or maybe the Knicks are like, as long as we're top five and offense and 15th on defense, we have a chance. But yeah, and he hasn't. Look, if they lose, then they're going to get on his case and be like, what's up with these interviews? But right now, everybody likes it.

[Bill Simmons]

He's kind of throwing a no hitter right now. I don't think he's had one weird interview yet. I keep waiting for it.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Maybe the PR just keeps turning down all of these invites and not even telling him.

[Bill Simmons]

Smart. Well, conversely, you mentioned Minnesota, Ant. Minnesota worries, scale. I'm like an eight and a half.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So the body language doctor does not like what he's saying with Minnesota. And then Ant called it out. Ant had that press conference after. He was like, we. We're all. We're too negative. Every. We're all doing our own thing. It was really kind of crazy.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. Look, they started 16 and 4 last year.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And they were the best defensive team in the NBA. So, I mean, this is like Knicks, like, to another level of disappointment to who they are defensively. But they moved out Cat. They didn't bring him in. So that part of it's really weird. But look, there's nights where Ant doesn't look like he Loves playing defense, and even though he's making a ton of threes, I'd rather him not take 11 a game. Defense hasn't been good and Randall puts up numbers, but it's. It's all kind of on his terms a little bit. So they look very disconnected. And it's a team offensively that I thought may get in their way of preventing them even making it to the Western Conference finals. As much as I like some of the guys on the team, last year.

[Bill Simmons]

It really felt like they had an identity. I knew what it was. I didn't know if it was going to translate to any four playoff rounds, but there was something unique about them. They. Sure, I don't know. When I watched them, I don't know, they just seem like another team.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well, at least they had the defense. They knew they could rely like that.

[Bill Simmons]

Phoenix stops, they could take. They could take out Jokic as well as anyone. Nobody takes them out, but they were at least, you know, big guys. They had a real effect on. And they could guard Jalen and Jason as well as anybody. Now it's. I don't know. I don't see it. I don't think it gets better either. Where does Randall rank for you on guys you wouldn't want to play pickup basketball with four hours a week? I was like, oh, man, I'm on Julius's team. Fuck. Oh, he saw me.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You know what?

[Bill Simmons]

I was waving me over. Ah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I always think it's funny is when, like, people just knock the NBA product and, you know, there's always like this weird push. There was even an NFL push this year, even though there was a few Sundays where I was like, this wasn't that much fun. But it's like, hey, the NFL product. And it's always somebody with some kind of agenda. But there's a lot of the NBA part of it. And I'll have nights too where I'll watch a game and like, there's way too much three point shooting tonight or why is that guy taking that shot? And then I go, do you miss post ups? Do you miss them? Do you watch these games and be like I mentioned Al Jefferson, like, entry pass so bad, and Randle backs guys down. It's like, hey, it's right there for you, right? Like, there you go if you miss it.

[Bill Simmons]

I had this coming up later, but I'm glad you're bringing up now. They. This became that there. That one clip went around that was like two minutes. It was.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It was bad.

[Bill Simmons]

You guys must have seen that, right? And it was just terrible three. Terrible three. And people were like, this is basketball now. And I'm watching it because I'm old. And I'm like, you guys don't understand how bad the 90s were. Like watching Bobby Phil's trying to post up. Whoever watching Anthony Mason trying to split a double team.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Like they had a Mark Jackson rule because your post ups took too long.

[Bill Simmons]

And how slow it was, right? Like that. Remember that Cleveland team with Brevin Knight where they fratello like his whole goal. No. Remember he slowed it down, Slowed it down to try to have like 65 field goals a game. Like there's 90.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I hope there's one person in this audience is youtubing Brevin Knight possessions now.

[Bill Simmons]

Someone in the back. Like, finally, Brevin Knight has been.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, but I was thinking like, that clip sucked. All right? And if you show that clip and there's plenty of games, there's some D'Angelo Russell warriors games where I go, I might have to take a year off from this team before they get rid of them. But then I think, like, okay, what are you talking about? That you miss. And it. There was no movement so much slower. Like, even last night's a nice reminder. And I hate this. This is my thing. But somebody post one clip of a Pistons hard foul and they act like that was every fucking possession of every game from like 1978 to 1996. And you're like, actually that's just a really hard foul. And we thought that was hard when it happened at the time. And then you're watching guys cut. And how physical even last night's game is with two teams that wouldn't even be suggested is like, oh, those are the two most physical basketball teams. The guys are so much bigger. They're so much fat. Like they're hitting each other off the ball. The game is so physical, and yet these dudes on TV just never want to admit that it might, it. It might be as tough even if there's more space.

[Bill Simmons]

Somebody did a study about how much more running there is now. And it's. I just think basketball, those half court sets, it's way harder to play basketball.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Now, as great as that stuff and how much we can get nostalgic over it. Like, I'll watch a Celtics playoff game from the 80s. Once the ball is crossed half court, everyone stops. Everybody stops. There's times I'm talking about, like big playoff moments where they're not picking somebody up who has the ball in transition. They're letting them because There wasn't, you know, the. The. I would say, the lengthening of the quarter, the threat of deeper shots, because people just didn't take shots back then the way they do now. But they would just almost let people get in to setting up what they wanted to do. And I would challenge anybody, like, go watch some of that stuff for 30 minutes. And it's hysterical how different it actually is in the way people talk about it today.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, we have a league where somebody's trying to win the fourth MVP and he's shooting 52% on threes and his 10 assists, and he's a center. People are like, this sucks. And everyone forgets in the mid 2000s, when we actually. It was like a crisis with the pace of the game and just how much it sucked to watch that they had to change these rules anyway. Next one for the worst goal. We just got to get it over with. Jamal Murray, listen, we're all friends here. Let's talk it out. I don't want this to be like the Sopranos intervention where somebody charges me. Let's just. Let's talk it out. Jamal Murray, how worried are you?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Not as worried as you are. You. I don't know if I'm bad at it or you're dangerous, but you went in and you were like, I don't think he's moving well. And I went, he's not peak Westbrook, so it's always a bit shifty into his.

[Bill Simmons]

I studied a lot. I studied how he couldn't.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Couldn't stop talking about him. He actually. I think the quote was, he's not the same anymore. And I went forever. And then he goes now.

[Bill Simmons]

So we just. No, that was a game. Doesn't have it right now or doesn't have it anymore.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Are two separate things. Right. But you still right now. Because he looks slow. He doesn't look like he's in the same shape.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He was bad last night. It was bad to see live.

[Bill Simmons]

He walks. I'm going to do some walking for the.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Here we go.

[Bill Simmons]

He does. He just looks. Looks creaky. Like, I want my guys to walk around the court like guys making 40 million a year with their chests out. I just was worried. I left the game thinking, that guy doesn't seem 100% healthy to me. I don't know if I'm right or wrong, but that was what I saw.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Beginning of last year. When he came back, it looked different because he was coming off the injury. Right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yep.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And then I think you could tell when it. When you know you try not just go by like, oh, he's scoring more. Everything is fine now. But he's a tougher one. I'm not as good at this as you are. I'm admitting I. I can't because he is not somebody.

[Bill Simmons]

It's not like I have my own CBS show where I'm like, the Mentalist. Would you turn that. That sounds great. Here are the two things I noticed that he used to have.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Elevator pitch.

[Bill Simmons]

Doesn't seem to have the same way. When he's going coast to coast and he's going fast and he's got the defender on his hip. He always had like a little super blast where he could get ahead of that guy and get his shot. And he doesn't seem like he totally has that yet. And then he has that little. Where he goes to his right, that little 12 footer, the Chris Paul shot, which always used to go in and was like his kind of like that was a shot and it's not going in anymore. And it doesn't seem like he has the same lift on it. So that's just what I saw in person. We'll see if it's fixed. But it's fear. The nuggets. Like your ceiling depends on what happens with him over the next four months. Because you know what you have with the other guys.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. And he's been so great in huge playoff spots. Everybody knows that. And like when you can do that, that tells me everything about you. That even if you don't have the accolades of the other guys. I think the no all star team thing is completely overblown. Because if you go through it like every single year was, and when he was healthy and when he wasn't the other guards that made the team, it's. It's not as egregious as it's always pitched. Every time it's a national broadcast, which seems to be some rule. Like Jalen Hurts squatting. You have to bring up that Jalen. Jamal Murray hasn't made an all star game.

[Bill Simmons]

But what are the other ones like that.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well, the all timer was Kershaw and Stafford went to high school together.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, that's a good one. Jim Harbaugh and John Harbaugh.

[Ryan Rosillo]

What? Russell Wilson won?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Did you just yell Russell Wilson trying.

[Bill Simmons]

To throw us off? I have a. I'm an eight and a half for Jamal Murray for word.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Put me down as a 6.5. He's too young. He's too young.

[Bill Simmons]

You're always conservative with this. I'm always like more panicky and you're more conservative. Yeah, yeah. And be George Philly, just as a group, removing all your whatever. I'm like an eight and a half.

[Ryan Rosillo]

See, I think you're right. This is why it's an 8. It's not a 10. Okay. The Pelicans are an 11. Yeah, Philly there is. Despite the time we just spent talking, there's a version of it coming together.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, the thing is, they only have to be, like, the 10 seed. That could be 34 wins with Maxie.

[Ryan Rosillo]

George, Embiid, Yabacelli, McCain.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, they have talent.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I mean, Oubre, who I can't stand, has been pretty good for them for a couple.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm not crossing them off, but it's not great.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Like, when Ubre has to play somebody tough defensively with all that length, like, he's. He's into it. He's kind of a different cat now, so I got to give it to him. So at least with Philadelphia, as bad as it is, it's kind of like the Clippers thing. Yes, it's a huge worry, but dot, dot, dot. Now, it never worked out for them, and maybe it doesn't work. The odds are against Philadelphia, but there's something there's in place where I don't see why they couldn't put together a couple of months. And we start talking about them being like, hey, that's going to be a weird. That could be a weird one. 8.

[Bill Simmons]

Here's why. 8 and a half might be low because Embiid was in the Olympics. Looked slow, looked creaky.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Do his walk.

[Bill Simmons]

That one will be tough. I don't know if I could do that one. Then before the season, it's like, we're taking it easy with him, but he's doing great. His knee's good. Signed the extension. That was a red flag. I was like, why did he grab that extension so fast? That was weird. Then it was the ESPN sent. Who is it? Bontemps to write the big feature about their whole master plan for it's all about April, May and June now. I was like, that's weird. Why are they telling us that? And then all of a sudden, Embiid not playing tonight. It's like, ah, the season started. That seems like a problem. Um, and then he played. He looked terrible. Then he got hurt. Then he was mad at his team. The team meeting happened, and we haven't.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Seen him since he got suspended for.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, and he ain't got in the fight with the reporter or. Not the fight, but the shoving thing. And then I saw today another red flag. And beat is ramping up. What does that mean?

[Ryan Rosillo]

It generally means you've been disappointing what other parents should start using it. How's Doug ramping up this summer?

[Bill Simmons]

Like, if my son's grades. If I'm like, hey, Ben, how are your grades? And he's like, yes, I'm ramping up.

[Ryan Rosillo]

But how are your grades as long as you're ramping up?

[Bill Simmons]

Like, how's it going with the ladies? I'm ramping up. So you're single. Lamello ball, worry, scale.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Where are you really high?

[Bill Simmons]

You're high. He's averaging 30 a game.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He's second in the league in scoring. And I'm worried. Now I know there's a large segment, not the great city of Denver. Never want to hear Bill and I talk about LaMelo. Speaking of scoot takes. And that's totally fair. I didn't like the Australia footage. Don't know how many times I can say it. Having said that, he's a incredibly talented guy. At that size, the passing, the. I talk about all the time, like his size, the start, stop, start again thing is just stupid. But when I watch the games and I see like, he took 35 the other night, and I'm like, you know what's not a good shot is a 1 foot 3 from 30ft out with 16 seconds left in the shot clock. And I think when you're allowed to just do that forever. Because he is their attraction. He is the kind of the Trey Young thing in Atlanta where this may not be great, but the kids love him. I wonder now on another coach who was supposed to be the guy. And by the way, when he benched him in that Nets game, I don't think it was about the fourth quarter. Cause I went back, I was like, where is the moment where Charles Lee's like, I'm benching you in a tight game, he made nine more substitutions in under four minutes. He was subbing in for offense, he was subbing in for defense. And he never put LaMelo back in the game. And I thought it was about the overall approach that he has to have. He's obviously more talented and a more productive player than I thought he would be before the draft. But I think there's a tendency of, like, he just kind of gets out there and does his own thing. I think it sucks to play with, and I think it's losing basketball. And this is a habit that he has to break to be something in this league other than just a box score.

[Bill Simmons]

Guy year 5, good stats, bad team guy. He's probably the captain and his stats are awesome. Stats are great.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Like even. Even with the bad threes. Like look at the three point like the numbers. He's a better shooter in the NBA now than he was at any other level. Like and it was immediate.

[Bill Simmons]

I've made this joke before and I'm going to make it again. His destiny might be social media 15 years from now with clips of people saying lamelo ball was a problem and just like a one minute highlight tape of crazy shots he made. And that's where we land. We'll see. Next one worry scale a stringer Avon situation with Franz and Paulo and Paulo comes back. Are they going to be in the balcony together? Franz is like, this is kind of my team now.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Here's why I'm not worried about it at all. Because when you watch Paolo at Duke, he actually wanted to get other guys involved. Even though he was clearly the best player. He was going to be the number one pick.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. So he likes this.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Paolo is totally fine getting other people involved, which is why I like him probably. I mean Wembanyama is in his own planet. Right. But Paolo, to be that good, that young and not have to have the seven year run of. I guess I have to kind of find a way to play with other people. Like that's in him already. So with this Fran, I think this is just a nice Franz reminder tour of what he is and how pissed people got the Cavs series. So I. I'm not worried. I think this is actually one of those weird injuries where it may be better for the rest of the Magic.

[Bill Simmons]

It certainly helped Franz.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Because he Olympics wasn't great for start of the season. Wasn't great.

[Ryan Rosillo]

The Cavs series, people were acting like he sucked.

[Bill Simmons]

I was one of them. No, it's good. Orlando's on my radar. I'm the most worried about the Cavs in the east obviously because I think they're really good. But I think I would put Orlando next for teams I'm worried about because if Franz keeps up for Boston or.

[Ryan Rosillo]

In general for Boston.

[Bill Simmons]

So if you keeps this up, the.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Boston threats are Cleveland, Orlando to you.

[Bill Simmons]

I think Orlando because of the defense and because if Franz can be this second guy that you never know who's going to have the 35 point game. I'm not as. I just can't be as scared of Milwaukee with the. With not knowing what I'm getting from Middleton. I just don't know if we're ever seeing no, but it's good to see.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That they turn it around, because Giannis has been insane, and the Knicks are.

[Bill Simmons]

Honestly just not good enough defensively. It's never worked when. Once you get to round three, round four, you have to be able to get stops, and I don't know if they can. Next one, Warriors. Gail Lebron going 89, Kareem, on us as this year goes along.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Revisit 89, Kareem, for those that don't remember.

[Bill Simmons]

So it was 36 years ago. It was the Farewell tour season. Kareem was amazing. I mean, he was. He had one of the most amazing careers in any sport. He was the finals MVP, I think, in 71 and 85. In 87, they ran the biggest play of the game for him in game four. He made it. He got fouled. 88, piston series. Biggest play of the entire series. They ran for him. He was, like, 42. So he was an amazing aging player, but he was obviously old. And then all of a sudden, 89. It was grim. It was. It was bad. And LeBron, like, he put up 29 today, and offensively, he can still do it. The defense is. You can't even call it defense because he's not playing it. So he's basically. He's become a DH in basketball. And you still play pickup, and I think you have a lot of pride in your pickup. I. You're trying to figure out how to be insulted by that. I had to run and pick up when I was in my early 40s where I really tried to keep it going. And then eventually, you start learning all these tricks to survive in a pickup game when you're old. And LeBron's doing a lot of those tricks now where I'm like. I used to do that. Where he'd be, like, on defense, under the basket, where he's just kind of doing this, and then, no, get that. Get that guy. And he's just not covering ground.

[Ryan Rosillo]

This is the worst comparison you've ever made.

[Bill Simmons]

Thank you. Look, I can tell when somebody's trying to conserve their energy at a basketball. Yeah, but you could have done it.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Without comparing it to your pickup game in the 40s.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm an only child. What do you want?

[Ryan Rosillo]

I hope someone that despises you tweets that you said this at this show tonight with no context whatsoever. I might even reach you. I know exactly what you mean.

[Bill Simmons]

You're supposed to be my friend on stage, and you're undermining me.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well, I think it's always good to be you know, every now and then I gotta. I gotta disagree with.

[Bill Simmons]

No, but you know what I mean, though? When.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I do know what you mean. I know what you mean. But I mean, if I said, like, hey, man, I always hit the cutoff guy in softball, nobody trust me. As somebody that tried to do that a few times, like, I was trying to explain why.

[Bill Simmons]

Mike, do you still move on defensive pickup?

[Ryan Rosillo]

What's that?

[Bill Simmons]

Do you still move on defensive pickup?

[Ryan Rosillo]

I mean, it depends on. I usually will. Like, if you make three, I'm like, shit, like, Matt Leonard's kid just destroyed me a couple weeks ago.

[Bill Simmons]

So how many years left for LeBron, in your opinion?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well, everything you said is right, but don't you feel guilty holding them to a standard that we shouldn't hold them to?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, it's year 22.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. That's what I mean. So, I mean, some of this defensive stuff he's been. He's been doing for a while. I mean, he's had the worst defensive assignment for years, which I think is smart to try to pace him. I mean, but now they have Austin.

[Bill Simmons]

Reeves and Connect out there, too, and it's like, ah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And D'Angelo.

[Bill Simmons]

Russell, Russell, Russell.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Now to lock it down.

[Bill Simmons]

Who's got jammer in? Anybody?

[Ryan Rosillo]

I. I think I'm at a stage, and I. I've. I've talked about this before, but I'm. I'm with you. Everything you said is right. And when Denver played him, they had LeBron's guy stay baseline. So LeBron was the baseline help, kind of in the dunker spot, and they were running these cuts like it was a handoff at the high post, and then somebody would cut down off of it, and LeBron just never, ever rotated over, and they're like, we're just going to keep doing this over and over and over again.

[Bill Simmons]

He's had some tough fast break defense plays.

[Ryan Rosillo]

But what. What. I mean, I thought he'd be. I thought he'd be on TV three years ago, you know, go back to 2010, and we're talking about him and holding him to the standard defensively. So this part I actually feel guilty about, even though you're right.

[Bill Simmons]

I guess my reaction is based on the dialogue about him heading into the season, and all the people in the media were like, he's still a top five guy. The answer is no.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Where do you have him in your top 100?

[Bill Simmons]

He was not in the top 20.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Whoa, that seems low.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm sorry. I like defense. We have Rudy 3 nest next worry scale.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You still have worries.

[Bill Simmons]

I have one more.

[Ryan Rosillo]

All right.

[Bill Simmons]

The Celtics ending up with a crappy owner.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Oh, all right. I'm. I'm laying out.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's talk this out.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well, no go. Cause this is your world. This is.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know what's gonna work.

[Ryan Rosillo]

An owner's insider.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm always nervous when I have a good owner and now I don't know what I'm getting with the next owner. I'm just going to naturally be nervous about that. So I'm like a seven. What if the next guy comes in and it's like a. A Rod Marc Laurie situation? Like, hey, we got to trade towns. We got to trade towns. He's too expensive like that. That's the shit that's happening.

[Ryan Rosillo]

What if it's John Henry? Those guys have won.

[Bill Simmons]

We're moving on. This episode is brought to you by Empower. You got money questions like can I retire early? What are my best savings options? Can I afford to pay for my kids education? Luckily, Empower has all the answers. With Empower's real time dashboard and real live conversations, you get clarity on your real life financial goals. So join 18 million Americans and empower. What's next? Start today at empower.com tap the banner or visit this episode's page to learn more. Sponsored by Empower. Not an endorsement or a statement of satisfaction by a client. This episode is brought to you by Old El Paso. Does Gameday hosting feel like an extreme sport? Not anymore. With Old El Paso, feeding your hungry crowd is oh so easy. Old El Paso's crunchy stand and stuffed shells, bold seasonings and squeezable sauces are.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Fumble free, flavor packed and perfect for.

[Bill Simmons]

Cheering on your team. Football season is taco season with Old El Paso. Level up your next tailgater. Watch, party, shop gameday essentials@old el paso.com this episode is brought to you by SimpliSafe. When it comes to the safety of me and my family, there's only one home security system I trust and that's Simplisafe. I love having it in my home. Helps protect every inch of it, inside and out. And if you want to try it for yourself right now, perfect time to get it. There's an amazing Black Friday sale going on for my listeners. I am talking 50% off here, everybody. Also, reasons to have Simplisafe. Holiday season's coming. Talk about this every year on the BS Pod. Guess what happens during holiday season? People start kind of casing your house a little bit on Wednesdays before Thanksgiving. Are they home did they go away? Oh, wait, there's no cars in the driveway anymore. I move it in Christmas packages. Maybe they're going to try to steal those. Well, they won't if you have Simplisafe because you're going to be guarded against the porch pilots. Simplisafe helps to stop crime before it happens. Professional monitoring agents that can see, speak to and deter intruders. And if someone's lurking around or acting suspiciously, they can and will take action. So check out Simplisafe today. Keep your home, your family and your peace of mind protected. And remember, a massive Black Friday sale is being extended by Simplisafe for my listeners this week only. You can take off 50% off any new system with a select professional monitoring plan. It's your last chance to claim the best offer of the year. So don't wait. Head to simplisafe.com BS to claim your discount. Make sure your home is safe this season. Once again, SimpliSafe.com BS SimpliSafe with two eyes. SimpliSafe.com BS there's no safe like Simplisafe. I'm going to save rather have right now because I want to get to your top five movie TV girlfriends. I asked Ricillo.

[Ryan Rosillo]

We're going to break up, break up.

[Bill Simmons]

The hoop of the little pop culture five movie TV girlfriends that when you watch the show or the movie, you were like, I'm in.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well, Megan, Mark is available again, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Is she available?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Can you.

[Bill Simmons]

Is that the word in the street after.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I think that podcasting didn't work out.

[Bill Simmons]

I think she's still married, though.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, but it was, it was, we played in a celebrity flag football game together and it was all of the swimsuit models. So nobody was really paying any attention to Markle. So I was like, that's my lane. Like, she's probably, she's probably doubting herself a little bit right now and she's never been more obtainable. And then, I mean, I caught the game winning touchdown over Deion Sanders. No big deal. And I was like, yeah, you know, I shot her a dm.

[Bill Simmons]

She shot her at dm.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. And then somebody was like, do you know who she's dating? I was like, I don't know. I don't pay attention to any stuff. And it didn't work out. And no, it's the funniest thing. And so then the joke kept going because when Piers Morgan would lose his shit about it, I would always quote, tweet above and be like, it gets better, man. Like, don't worry. And I was basically only doing it for like, Sarah Walsh and Carissa Thompson because they knew the story, they thought it was so funny. So, like, nobody really knew what the joke was. And I kept doing it over, like, again, I don't do it that often, but maybe once a year, Piers Morgan would have some other Meghan Markle thing come up. And then I would be like, don't worry, dude, I'm here if you need to talk ever. And he never responded. And the funniest person, the you would never guess this. The funniest person ever to reach out to me after one of those Piers Morgan tweets was like, dude, what is wrong with you? She's not that great. Like, have you paid attention to this hairy thing? Like, you're way better. And first of all, you realize she wasn't going to go out with me, right? So there's that part. Jeff Van Gundy, come on. Jeff Van Gundy texted me to tell me that I was better off without Meghan Markle.

[Bill Simmons]

That's a thing that actually happened.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And I was so, like, I was at home solo and I'm on, you know, I'm like, what's Van Gundy want? Because I don't. We don't text a lot. And I was like, oh, no, he thinks that Pierce Morgan tweet is real. So then I had to explain the whole thing to him and he was like, I've lost interest now.

[Bill Simmons]

Then Mark Jackson texted, hand down, man down.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I don't think Mark Jackson, I don't think he was ever going to text me after that. That one monologue that I did where I was like, why does everyone keep asking why he's not getting a head coaching job? And I just went through like a 10 year timeline.

[Bill Simmons]

So not, not on your speed dial.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Thing is too, is I loved him. He's a Johnny.

[Bill Simmons]

Wait, one more question.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

What was the DM to make a Margo? Was it like, Was it like, what? Shaken?

[Ryan Rosillo]

It was not what shaking.

[Bill Simmons]

How are you?

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, it was really. It was, hey, it's Ryan. No, it was a soft. It's a very soft sell. It was, Hey, I know the new season of suits is coming out. If you ever want to come on the show.

[Bill Simmons]

Come on the show.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, it was really professional and it was like a gauging of interest. Like if I got an emoji back, who knows? And I didn't. It was ice cold. It was, oh, I don't know anything about sports, but thanks for the offer.

[Bill Simmons]

Next one. So Meghan Markle? Who else?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well, is it weird to go all the way back to the Goonies?

[Bill Simmons]

No.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I left the movie theater in love with that girl. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Not. Not the one with the glasses, but the other one. Like, yeah, I don't. I don't know what the deal was, but just never happened. Yeah. And who was that? Brolin. Was Brolin the bad guy?

[Bill Simmons]

Bro might have stepped in. Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I was like, what's she seeing? Him. He had a car, though. And I think I was like 10. So I think that was the first one where like I went to a movie and felt a little different after I left.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You know what I'm saying? You don't know what the hell's going on. But you're like, why do I. Why am I looking at Bop magazine at the CVS the next week with her on the COVID of that. So that's one. Did you have ones that. We don't have a slideshow for this. Right. Because this now feels incredibly awkward. After I told the Markle thing.

[Bill Simmons]

Slideshow would have been good. My moment for that was the Charlie's Angels Hawaii episode. I was like, I'm just a different person now. What about the town?

[Ryan Rosillo]

All right, let's just get to it instead. Because I don't. I don't. So Blake Lively in that movie. Like, I had a stretch where I was in Boston where I would see the Blake Lively's and it's one of.

[Bill Simmons]

The most accurate characters in the history of movies.

[Ryan Rosillo]

When you guys do the Oscar revisit thing. Have you ever nominated her for like supporting actress?

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, we don't even need to. It's just a given.

[Ryan Rosillo]

She nails it because she's so dangerous. She's the worst idea ever. And you know that you're in. And I thought.

[Bill Simmons]

And has a kid with one of the most dangerous gang members in town.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I love kids. So somebody smoking.

[Bill Simmons]

We're in Denver. Everything's possible.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I think she might be back there smoking. She would smoke in the car. When she met your parents the first time, the reason why she was modeled, she was modeled after these girls that like, none of us really knew how to talk to. But at the same time, like, you never. I wanted to date one and have every one of my friends tell me how terrible it was. I wanted to lie to my parents that I wasn't seeing anybody. And I wanted to date her all the time. And I wanted to go up to like Medford. I wanted to go to these dangers. Like, I Went to Revere one night when I was in my 20s to scope this out. Like, I was like, I'm going to Revere. I just want to see it for real. And I was like, I think I'm going to get my ass kicked here tonight, so I'm going to have to leave. So it never really quite worked out for me. I knew what kind of hair was going to be, like a bad dye job, like sort of a Jennifer Aniston thing that was weight out of style. And then the streaks that weren't blended properly because she went to some cheap place in a strip mall. Like I had. I was like, look, I'm on TV for the Celtics. There has to be something like, oh, he gets. He gets fucking great seats.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You know, But I was losing my hair and I was losing my confidence a little bit. So never happened.

[Bill Simmons]

She's still the ideal, though, right?

[Ryan Rosillo]

I think I have a little different standards now.

[Bill Simmons]

Should we tell the story about when we met?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. Because that guy. That guy.

[Bill Simmons]

That guy would have loved the Blake Ladley character.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That guy. I actually was. To be totally honest, there was one deal that was sort of close and I got dumped because she got on a reality show. I wasn't bummed out. That was the best thing, is that, you know, it's bad for you and when you get dumped, you don't even care.

[Bill Simmons]

Like a cable show or a network show.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, it was like fairly.

[Bill Simmons]

Fairly popular, prominent show.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. And then when she was. I was like, you didn't even win. Now you want me back. Yeah. So we met.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you remember it? Well, it was. It was the first great Celtics moment in nine years. It was the game when. The playoff game against the Nets, game three, where they were down like 25. Came back, really ugly game, but really fun. And it was. Everyone was just so happy. The Celtics had a nice, happy playoff moment. It was like. It just. Literally nine years is forever. And it was a day game and everyone went out and it was one of those just drunk, drunk, drunk Boston days. And that's where I met Rossillo. And he was not sober.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It wasn't that game.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought it was.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

Was it a different game?

[Ryan Rosillo]

It was a Pacers playoff game.

[Bill Simmons]

It was weak.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It was the week.

[Bill Simmons]

That was also a great game. That was the Paul Pierce over. I knew it was a playoff game from back then, so. Are you sure it wasn't that night? I think I might be right.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, because you were getting married that week.

[Bill Simmons]

You're right.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And I had just started at that Station the Zone in Boston.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And you had just left and gone on to other things. And so we had just kind of missed each other, like, just missed each other. He came on, like, did a phoner. He was. He was nice enough to. To find some time for us. And then I hadn't actually met him. And a bunch of my guys from Vermont came down because it was like the first time I had ever been able to like, do my friends a favor with a hookup. So I got us like four seats in the suite. And like, you know, that age you're just going to get after it because your friends are in town. And then I was like, tight white T shirt. I mean, I looked like an extra. And that. I remember the Outsiders. And Bill's there with like his soon to be wife. I think her parents. Your parents. But it was at the Fours, I think.

[Bill Simmons]

Is that the Fours. I have a completely different memory.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And so he was down.

[Bill Simmons]

This is great.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It's like he was down a few tables and I was like, well, we're colleagues, so I'll go say something. And I was like, hey, the Heathcliff Slocum trade for Veritech and Low was the best since Andy Dufresne bought that rock hammer from Redline. Man. I'm like, that was. That was something else, you know, And I've got like a Coors Light. And I'm like, you know, like, yeah, well, we're getting married tomorrow. So. You were nice, but it was. It was over. And I. I didn't. I realized 30 seconds later, after it was over, I was like, oh, I guess this is over now. And that was the beginning of this.

[Bill Simmons]

Funny, that's not what I remembered. This is what happens when you get old. You have these memories and then they morph into a different memory.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It would be really weird if we had met after that Nets game and then the. But I know where I was after the Nets game.

[Bill Simmons]

Can we play some. Rather have right now?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, I got a list. I'm excited.

[Bill Simmons]

Embiid or Kawhi, who would you rather have?

[Ryan Rosillo]

I have the same one down for you. That's hilarious. Embiid, because he doesn't have a ring.

[Bill Simmons]

I think I would rather have him beat, too.

[Ryan Rosillo]

What's the Kawhi argument?

[Bill Simmons]

My Clippers guy was telling me, kawhi's coming back Christmas. And he's. I think he's ramped up. He's ramped up, ready to go. But I think the Embiid thing just doesn't feel like it's Headed toward a good place. Right. Like what? What? Give me the best case scenario for the Embiid situation. Like comes back, he's like, you know, the team meeting. I really. I did some soul searching.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He needs to follow the Duncan model. He has to get lighter.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, well, that's not going to be this season. Zion or Trey.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, it's actually Trey. I mean, it's Zion.

[Bill Simmons]

Can you believe that you were like Zion's number one guy.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I'm no longer his number one guy. What about Zion or Ja?

[Bill Simmons]

Ja.

[Ryan Rosillo]

August would you said Ja.

[Bill Simmons]

See to me that Willie's here.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Should we have done the live show at Shotgun Willys?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Oh, I know a guy.

[Bill Simmons]

Apparently is Jesus. See, I had jaw gun J or Halliburton.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Ja or Halliburton. I think this room's a little high on Ja.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm still in on Jaw.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He's. He's awesome. But I mean, he basically said the other day he's going to stop dunking. That seems alarming. Yeah, because I do. I would like every time I'd watch him, I go, I love this. And those grizzlies, like spikes that didn't really amount to anything because they were always hurt. Like they put together some really nice stretches. Maybe this five. And I think the front office does a really good job with everybody. But I thought there was like a Jaw Zion off the court thing. Do you see Zion hit up that ring girl from Alabama.

[Bill Simmons]

I did. Well, I guess the question for me.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Is, who knows, maybe I could take a couple lessons if they could get.

[Bill Simmons]

Out of the Zion contract after this year. Do you do it? Is a question I can't believe we're even asking, but I think it's a serious question.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He's be reevaluated in two weeks. So I'm excited for that. But that story today that the Pelicans aren't going to wave them like there's sometimes you're like, maybe this isn't really updated information. Like, no shit, you're not going to wave.

[Bill Simmons]

Right next. Rather have Bo Nicks or Jaden Daniels. I agree. But can you believe this is an argument?

[Ryan Rosillo]

No Bo Nick looks like Drew Brees.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, it's like Peyton has just sprinkled Drew Brees Kool Aid all over him for eight weeks.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well, think about this like McShay and I did this two weeks ago of the. All right, so it's six quarterbacks in the top 12. Panix hasn't played. JJ was hurt. So we've got Caleb, we've got Jaden, we've got Drake, we've got bo. And if I asked you right now, hey, if in five years, any one of them were the best of this group, it's all still on the table, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Except it's not, because it's going to be Drake May. Hey, I'll fucking leave Drake. May is amazing. I'll say this. With Knicks, I watched that jets game. What do you have? 60 yards in the bad weather. And the jets kicker missed the field goal and the Broncos somehow won. It was before the Broncos turned the season around and it looked like he was going to be like, out of the league in three weeks. And you watch the guy the last couple weeks, and he just looks completely legit to me. Like he can make every throw he runs around. He'll make like two mistakes. But I like his leadership. I like that he gets in fights with the other team, starts barking at defensive linemen.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And that Max Crosby highlight got you.

[Bill Simmons]

He just has it. I think he's got it. I think he's got charisma. I like him. I don't know what the ceiling is, and I know he's like 25 and maybe this is the ceiling already, but he's, he's a, he's an average to above average starting quarterback.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I'm serious, though. Like, if he ends up being like a real guy, you know what I mean? You know what we're talking about here, signing up for 10 years. You know, I don't know if we started counting super bowl rings here, but he answers your quarterback question for a decade, which is really what you're hoping for with any of these guys. You may have to just start drafting guys, be like, how many games have you played? You haven't played 50 in college, right? We don't want anything to do with you because they can get reps. Wrong. And when you look at how many games he's played, how many games Jaden's played, like, maybe it's just trends and it all kind of changes year to year, but it seems like there's real value in avoiding, at least avoiding the guys that have like 25 starts to their, their career in college.

[Bill Simmons]

The situation piece, which everyone talks about, I mean, he came into an incredible spot too, which can't be understated, right? Like, Sean Payton is like, I'm taking this guy 12th. I'm making this work. I'm going to turn him into a qb. This is, this is all I care about. And it actually happened. I also thought it was going to be. He's going to be in the playoffs.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, like, he got into it with Sean Payton. Then it kind of turned into a thing where it was like, oh, so Bo Nicks can do this, but Russell Wilson can't? And I just wanted to be like, maybe Bo Nicks isn't the most annoying human being in the NFL. What did you have? All right. Matherine or Peyton Pritchard?

[Bill Simmons]

Let's just say I handed in a ringer. 100 top players list.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, you didn't.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, not only did I. I put him in the 80s. He's been incredible. He's the best. He's the best bench guy in the league.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He's been awesome. I mean, there's metric. When I was going through my top 100 and doing it, and I was looking at like, you know, just all the different things you want to prioritize or. Are there any secrets in here? Some of the metric stuff for Pritchard, I'm like, how is he? He's up here with these guys.

[Bill Simmons]

And by the way, White got scratched the other day, and I was like, prichard's going off, man, watch that. And he had like 29. I can't believe you're not in on this. He's been. He's been the best bench guy in the league.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It's 20 games. 80th best player in the NBA.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a 350 player league. It's in the top quarter.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Or 450.

[Bill Simmons]

McCain or Scoot?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Pass. Okay, we don't pass. Tina.

[Bill Simmons]

How about Tatum or sga?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Sga? The advanced stuff is like, he used.

[Bill Simmons]

To be on the Tatum side of that.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, I love Tatum. I think Tatum doesn't get enough credit for. Sorry to steal your routine here, but his setting the table, like even some of the bad shooting nights through the playoffs last year, like watching those, you know, the curry MVP thing in 15, to this day, is going to bother me the rest of my life. When I die, I hope the first thing someone says will be, he was still really mad about iguodala getting the 2015 MVP because everything that happened was dictated off of what they were doing to Curry. Like, you know, and Iguodala got it because LeBron was held to 40. And so when I think about Tatum's impact versus all the other people that benefit from it, I think that part of Tatum's game isn't discussed enough because he also, you know, can be a bucket whenever he wants. But the SGA thing is it's kind of hard to deny some of the advanced stuff there that he's just at a double level than Tatum.

[Bill Simmons]

I have Tatum. Slight edge.

[Ryan Rosillo]

All right. Shocked.

[Bill Simmons]

I listen. I had SGA over him. I thought the last month Tatum played was the best I've seen him play on both ends. Everything he's doing, I just feel like he's gotten to another level. His shot, he fixed it. Rebounds. He plays hard every night. I think it's harder to find six, nine guys than guards.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Is he East Coast Jokic?

[Bill Simmons]

No, I would never say that.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Played center on defense in the NBA Finals. Played point guard on offense.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Does he love horses? I got one for you. Jordan Pool or Draymond Green as a roommate?

[Bill Simmons]

I think that would be a fun one for road trip. Jordan Pool on my basketball team. Probably Draymond Green. Dinner. Interesting. Maybe Draymond.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Draymond definitely might have a couple of good stories. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

How about ohtani or Connor McDavid?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Gimme McJesus.

[Bill Simmons]

I think I agree.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I started like putting Oilers games up on while they're NBA playoffs games and I had to. I had to turn off McJesus because I would turn back to the NBA games. You haven't watched.

[Bill Simmons]

You were like missing it.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I was like, I haven't watched 20 minutes. I have no idea what happened.

[Bill Simmons]

Anthony Edwards or Drake May.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I don't care about the Patriots anymore. So post Brady don't care. Ant a hundred times out of Jake May has it.

[Bill Simmons]

You've heard me.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Did you say any of these things about Mac Jones?

[Bill Simmons]

He's comparing him to rookie Mac Jones is insane. He's so much better than Mac Jones. Had a good first three months. He was good.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I remember it's a whole little Mac is giving off early Brady vibes.

[Bill Simmons]

It was 2001 Brady vibes.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That's right.

[Bill Simmons]

That's what game manager vibes game.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I always love that. It's a great Peyton Manning rule. And I need to do these. I'm going to track these, maybe write a small book on it. But whenever a rookie QB has a million interceptions, they're like, well, Peyton had 30. And you're like, okay, I guess he's going to be Peyton Manning. And anytime a quarterback didn't do a ton, but they just won games. Tom Brady, 2001, like, great. I guess it'll be Tom Brady, you or me. Here, I got a couple left. I got like two left.

[Bill Simmons]

Go ahead.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Mobley or Lively?

[Bill Simmons]

Mobley. You like Lively that much?

[Ryan Rosillo]

I just wanted to see where you were at with it.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm still. I kept my Mobley position But you're.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Aware he's not going to be like that, right?

[Bill Simmons]

I'm not giving up. I'm an optimistic guy. We'll see. Okay, team's playing well. How about this one? Sean Payton or Jim Harbaugh?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Wow.

[Bill Simmons]

A lot of Harbaugh's.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Harbaugh's my new neighbor. Give me Harbaugh.

[Bill Simmons]

I think I would take Harbaugh, too, but I think Payton's done a really good job at the Broncos. Jamal Murray or Dame Lillard?

[Ryan Rosillo]

I thought Malone's comments last night were pretty interesting because, like, Jamal was getting hunted late in the game. Like, that was the primary thing that Golden State wanted to get into. And then Malone was like, I hope he knows. And he takes pride in the fact and, like, make sure that doesn't keep happening. Having said that, Dame will be hunted defensively. He's hunted on the way to the game, so he's. He's probably a better, like, peak. Holy shit. Score. But see, as I say that, like, Dame's had more of that in his career. But those Jamal playoff games are a huge deal for me. So Jamal and the age thing, I.

[Bill Simmons]

Would take Jamal because I feel like there's another level to where he can get to where Dame is, where he is now at the age he's at and who he is.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Dame's a much worse foul beter, too. It drives me crazy.

[Bill Simmons]

Roger Goodell or Adam Silver?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well, if we both pick Silver, people are going to think we're doing. Although if you pick Silver, I think people would understand why I'm going to go with Silver, just because I felt like the NFL had a stretch there. And again, the commissioner is the mouthpiece of ownership, so you always have to remember that. But the NFL ownership run there was just so gross and so arrogant and so dismissive of people. Like, the NBA's never had a run like that.

[Bill Simmons]

That's well put. I think if I was an owner, I would rather have Goodell. Is that because as a human being, I would rather have Adam Silver. But if it's somebody to run my business, like, right now, like, because Paramount got bought, the NFL has it out in their deal. And you just know Goodell's going to be, like, fucking Tony Soprano with it. Like, it's like, you're going to pay us more, and that's how it's going to play out. And he's just so. He is.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. The TV thing is a lot like college football to me, because anybody that's heard this rant, I'm not. I promise I'm not going to do it again right now. But, like, there has to be a point of diminishing returns, of having, I don't know, Cal play SMU in an ACC fucking game. All right? So when I look at people losing track of who's where and how dumb and imbalanced the schedules are and leading to all sorts of nonsensical results from the season, it's like, okay, how much further can college football push the money grab to where maybe start turning people off?

[Bill Simmons]

And clearly the NFL's there.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well, no, because I think the live rights thing, as we both know, you know, whether it's our time at ESPN and understanding of being the priority, which it should have been, but they are treating it like cocaine and they are cutting it up as much as they possibly can, and they're putting it on every single corner. And you're like, I still have an NBC streaming subscription. I'm like, how did that happen? And when they did that last round of packages, it's like, they don't even care. And it's actually kind of smart. It's like, why are we doing deals with two or three networks? Put it on eight and everybody will get their little piece and that'll drive up the price. And I always wonder if there's a moment in time where it's like, we did too much of it and it actually kind of hurt it. I don't know. I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

I wondered that as well. And then I was so excited. There was a Black Friday game. I was like, I. Apparently, they could have the NFL every day of the week.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Three Thanksgiving games. I was like, wait, the Raiders are playing? I get to watch Aidan O'Connell. It's a Chiefs team that doesn't care. I'm in.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Do you guys remember that? Denver, Thursday night or two years ago? The Colts. Right. Denver Colts. I was in Vermont. I was in a hotel room. I'm watching it on my laptop because I couldn't get prime on the tv. And it was one of the worst things I've ever watched. And I remember this amazing, like, empowering moment where I went, I'm going to turn this off.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Like, I don't have to watch.

[Bill Simmons]

I think they've done a better job with the Thursday schedule this year.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Thursday schedule is way better.

[Bill Simmons]

It's Packers, Lions on Thursday.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That's the other thing the NFL does. The NFL is like, as soon as you get a couple games, you're like, we're going to give you some really weak product.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. The first, well, even like the Christmas games, the games are pretty good. Like Casey, Pittsburgh might actually matter.

[Ryan Rosillo]

The nice thing about the NFL doing their Christmas thing is that Goodell told us that is because football is family.

[Bill Simmons]

I'll say this, it really bothered me that the NBA got rid of Thanksgiving games and that they're so scared of the NFL now.

[Ryan Rosillo]

What about the Thursday TNT thing? Like we have to wait basically now. So that. And look, I used to love betting on Aaron Brooks at UVA in college when it was the Virginia Thursday night ACC thing. Like, that was my shit. And that was one of the great college games. And it was so awesome to have that on a Thursday. And now again, everyone was just so terrified of them.

[Bill Simmons]

But I thought the NBA, I thought it was nice to have those two. And instead they have 15 games on a Wednesday. You can't watch, you know, as you can't watch all of them at the same time. And I just, I don't know, like, I feel like they've moved too far away. They already got the TV deal. It's not like, oh, ratings are down. People always love to do this with the NBA. The ratings are down. Well, who cares? They just sign an 11 year deal. You think they give a shit? Like, they got the money already, so put more games on times when I want to watch.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I don't even know what ratings being down means because every time it happens then the TV deal triples the previous one.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't either.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I don't know. I've never been a ratings guy when you have them.

[Bill Simmons]

No, I'm just like, when it became like a thing about, oh, ratings are down 12%, I was like, all right.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I like, fastest growing show in America.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, that's a good one.

[Ryan Rosillo]

There was a couple of shows at ESPN that just were at a zero and they were ramping up or they.

[Bill Simmons]

Replaced the worst show possible.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, right. And then I'd be like, who keeps track of fasting show in America? That would seem like a huge deal. It's like, well, if you start at zero, who can really start?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, there's 700 chances.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I have one more for you.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Would you rather watch 90s NBA players at the TNT desk after a Wizards Hornets game or an MSNBC panel after the election?

[Bill Simmons]

Can I pass up both? I got one more for you. Yellowstone or Landman.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Early Yellowstone. There's a version of events where if I had moved out here, I would have modeled my entire thing after RIP Dually super inefficient gasoline the wind visor hat. Probably Would definitely get my ass kicked more than Rip did. But, you know, there's sort of like we're all, you know, we can be a certain age, but this is all a little make believe. I would hope some of us. So, yeah, Early Yellowstone. Rip is really high up there for me. Although I think that the show, its tentacles went into a bunch of different directions there.

[Bill Simmons]

I love Landman. Have you watched?

[Ryan Rosillo]

I've seen the clips. I've not dug in yet.

[Bill Simmons]

Landman is unbelievable. It's Billy Bob Thornton clearing out Lamelo on the Charlotte Hornet style. He's just like, can I shoot 35 times today? And Taylor Sheridan's like, you can. And Allie Larder comes in and she's like, can I just be like a way crazier Varsity Blues older person version of that? He's like, absolutely. And then they're like, should we do stuff with the daughter that's kind of inappropriate with older characters on the show? And Taylor Sheridan's like, done it. And then things blow up every once in a while. It's great.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Where are you with Jon Hamm? Texting. Can you text him after an episode?

[Bill Simmons]

I would not. I would not.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I. Yeah, but I think that's like a real you and him, actually.

[Bill Simmons]

If I liked it. But I wouldn't be like, I don't know about episode four.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well, I didn't expect you to do that. That would be. Actually be an amazing friendship.

[Bill Simmons]

The funniest thing is.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Did you realize you peaked?

[Bill Simmons]

The funniest thing is Demi Moore's in this show.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Good for her. I actually like what Sheridan's casting is awesome.

[Bill Simmons]

Let me finish. She doesn't have any lines.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Oh, I haven't watched it.

[Bill Simmons]

I think she's had like five lines in four episodes, but they make it seem like she's in it. But she's kind of like Joel Embiida on the Sixers where it's like, is that he's not playing again. So I don't know whether they were doing her a favor or she couldn't be for the first five episodes or what's going on. Maybe.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Here's the deal. We want your comeback story to be this, but you don't have to do anything. I haven't watched it. I'm in a deficit here.

[Bill Simmons]

I really liked it. But you do watch old succession episodes.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, I love it. I think I had an epiphany recently where it has surpassed everything else as my favorite show. And, like, we could all go with the Wire and Sopranos. And I loved Mad Men. I Loved it. But there's something about succession where the show found a way to put stuff in it that it didn't need. Like, I'll use a small example here, and I promise not to go too long on it, but the election night episode where they already have everything they need, right? It's going to be this close election. The Roys are going to have to be put in a situation where they're going to have to make this decision and call the election for Menken and Shiva is going to fight against them. So they got the back and forth, and Tom is just lost in all of it. But the fact that in that dramatic, I don't know, hour long show, but in that moment, it's a few minutes that Greg gets wasabi on something so that their data guy, like their Nate Silver gets wasabi in his eyes, and Greg is dumping lemon flavored Lacroix into his eyes. And in the script, Greg is yelling, it's not that lemony. It's just a hint of lemon.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

The brilliance to be able to write, like, all the stuff that matter. And that that episode could have not had that and it still would have been a great episode. And the tension of the election night and now what's at stake and how wrong they could have got it and everything that develops off of that, that they were like, let's just have a moment where Greg gets wasabi in the data guy's eyes. It's just not a lot of shows that would pull that out.

[Bill Simmons]

So you've been binging succession. I've been binging Sopranos, and I might have to. I did the full circle. I started on Redder at the end of season four, went all the way through to finish because there was a marathon. I'm like, all right, I want to keep watching. And I got to the end, and I was like, season one, and then now. And my wife is just furious now. She's like, what the. Really? Again? You just did this two years ago, so maybe I need to shift the succession because I feel the same way about the Sopranos that you do about succession, where I can just watch the same episode over and over again and just learn fine new things, you know?

[Ryan Rosillo]

You know what I love on a rewatch? And I think AJ was awesome.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he really was.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He was so good.

[Bill Simmons]

AJ got food.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That doesn't seem very nice. He didn't know.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, let's. Let's end with this. How many cities could you have actually lived in? And I mean, actual cities, they can't be like, you can't say Pat. Like cities that have to have at least one sports team. How many could have a sports team? You have to have at least 1%.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So Hartford's out?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, Hartford's out.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That's. Hartford was going to be one of my go tos. Well, I always want to move to Manhattan Beach. Accomplished. I did want to live here. It was close, but I could live here. I love it here. Great group of friends. I've just never had a bad time coming to Colorado. So Wyoming, we're all for one.

[Bill Simmons]

I just got that.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Thanks.

[Bill Simmons]

For me, Boston and la, which I've already done. I absolutely could live here. I really like it here.

[Ryan Rosillo]

What about San Antonio, Texas?

[Bill Simmons]

Amount, Chicago, the extreme weather amount. That's why I love Boston, Seattle? If they had an NBA team, I'd really consider it. And that's about it. It would take a lot to get me to leave LA. Just like it was on Thanksgiving. It was 70 degrees.

[Ryan Rosillo]

What about where the Panthers play?

[Bill Simmons]

Where's that?

[Ryan Rosillo]

I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

So that's it. So you could move here, but you would?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well, once you said NBA town, it screwed up my whole St. Barstow.

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't say NBA. You could have any team.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, because I think.

[Bill Simmons]

Because some people, like Nashville is getting momentum now.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, because you guys think I bought this boat for like luxury purposes and it's actually my exit strategy. St. Bart's Rye, boat captain, NBA pod Once a week to cover the boat excise tax from the boat. No, it just needs something to cover the taxes, which I know I'm not supposed to bring up anymore, but.

[Bill Simmons]

So you'd have the boat in St. Barts.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I know, I live there.

[Bill Simmons]

But you'd have YouTube TV.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, unless they do some weird thing of like, are you here permanently? Because you just keep clicking. I'm visiting.

[Bill Simmons]

This would all lead to you disappear and we do like an eight episode ringer podcast. Well, there was something about what happened to you.

[Ryan Rosillo]

There was a South of France thing where I was looking at something on Zillow where I was like, I could just have the worst schedule ever and do NBA pods from here.

[Bill Simmons]

Like at five in the morning I.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Don'T have anything telling me I can't do it. And then I think something came up and I was like, I can't.

[Bill Simmons]

What was the shortest amount of time where you decided that you were flying somewhere that wasn't in this country and then you were actually going on the plane?

[Ryan Rosillo]

All right, this is actually kind of funny because when I flew to Reykjavik in Iceland. The flight from Minneapolis to reykjavik is like 5 hours, 4, 45. And I was like, dude, if I meet just some smoke show from Reykjavik, like, I could just. It's not that bad a flight. It's. It's two and a half to Minneapolis from la. And then.

[Bill Simmons]

So you could live in Minnesota. You get the Timberwolves.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, I could live in LA and I could commute through, and then I could be a Reykjavik. We'd split time.

[Bill Simmons]

You went through this thought process.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I just couldn't. It was. It was like, you sit in the. Like, I remember when I flew to Greece once, I was, like, all pumped up, and I, like, turned to the guy next to me. I was like, what do we got, like, six, seven hours here? Because I was so used to the East Coast Europe thing. The guy's like, 11. And I went, fuck. Like, I have not mentally prepared myself for 11.

[Bill Simmons]

So what was the fastest you've gone on a trip, though, right?

[Ryan Rosillo]

So that was. That was the Iceland one. Once I sat down and I saw the thing on the graphic. I'm like, 4:45. Could I. Should I look at property? Yeah. And it was all. Because the. I. It wasn't seven hours. It was under five. It was really stupid. I mean, all these things are stupid that I. Do I. San Sebastian, applying for a job.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you tell people when you're like, all of a sudden on your way to some country, do you. Do you. Are there five people? You're like, hey, just FYI, I'm going to be in Spain for a while.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, I actually was in New Zealand hopping on, like, this prop plane over Milford Sound, and you had to sign all these waivers. And I was like, I probably should tell somebody. So I remember I forwarded my trust and will to my brother, and I was like, hey, I'm in New Zealand. I was like, did you get that email? And he's like, what the fuck are you doing right now? He's like, are you all right? I was like, no, I'm fine. I'm going to where they film Lord of the Rings.

[Bill Simmons]

You were like, so Scoot Henderson gets 10%, you get 45% to Yoka just so you can buy another horse.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I just hope Scoot gets a second contract and he won't need any of my money.

[Bill Simmons]

Last thing, what's your prediction for the Denver Nuggets this season? How many rounds?

[Ryan Rosillo]

I don't know. I don't know what you're trading unless you just pull the flight of Michael Porter Jr. And you think it's an upgrade.

[Bill Simmons]

You look at the contracts. It's.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It's. It's gotta be Porter Who's. Who's the impactful person that then makes you better? Because Gordon, like, I love Gordon on this team so much, I don't know that I would. Yeah, there actually. There's no version of him I would like as much as this one because of Jokic and the baseline stuff and all that stuff. But.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, the other thing is it's harder to make trades now, which I didn't. I'm still kind of figuring out the machinations because we gotta get it ready for when we start doing fake trades. And.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, but it's not even what the penalties are in place. It's the fear of what the next one will do to you. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But even also just matching the contracts and be like, no, no, you actually can't do that because you're over this apron, so you can only. It's. I didn't get into sports to actually have to figure out fucking math. I got to tell you that much. And it's the most confusing it's ever been. But, like, even you look at it, you go, well, why would they trade Michael Porter for Zach Levine? That would be an interesting trade, right? It's like, no, you can't, because then you got to give him Zeke Najee. It's a hypothetical. Some Porter fans, huh? Jimmy Butler's another one.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I think it's a matchup thing. Like, I think some teams still have real, like, question mark. There's some teams that want to close small all the time. Like, I'm noticing it more and more where teams will just, like, match each other with small lineups and, like, here we go again. So it depends on the draw, but they're certainly not the favorites. But here's Phoenix, who's falling apart again.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, how many west teams do you really like? Because for me, it's like assuming check comes back.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I like West.

[Bill Simmons]

We have no idea. OKC is the only one I feel great about.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, Dallas is turning it around. They're going to be good, but I don't know if they're locked into succeed. But if it were Dallas, Denver, I mean, it also has to see how it looks in March and April, but.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm trying to think of a single team in the West. I would be psyched to see Jokic. I'm going to say the answer is zero, but OKC would be, you know, they're just like, take your 40. We'll take out everybody else. We have a way Better team than you and I. That'd be a really tough one. So I would have okc, and then I just think it's tbd. I liked Phoenix and we went big on them in the over unders. And you know, Durant's been hurt twice now already. We're not even in.

[Ryan Rosillo]

When they're together, they're really good.

[Bill Simmons]

December, yeah, but it might be one of those. One of the things I'm thinking about with this season is just, do we count on these mid-30s guys too much? You know, forget about LeBron, the age he's at, but do even Curry, 36, Durant in the 2007 draft. On and on. And we see like the best case version of them when they're actually playing. But the season's like too fucking hard now. All these teams are good. The style of play is really hard to play and you're flying up and down. Then you got four playoff rounds. It's like, maybe, you know, somebody like Curry, how realistic is it that he could get through a season like this where he's carrying the burden he's carrying, and then win four straight playoff rounds?

[Ryan Rosillo]

No way. Look, I want to defend Curry all the time. The second player isn't good enough. I don't even know who it is for a playoff team to get through multiple rounds in this West.

[Bill Simmons]

Two years ago or two and a half years ago, they barely got there and they got a lot of luck. But, you know, I just wonder if this is the year where it's like Boston, Cleveland, okc, these young, talented, hungry teams, and it's just those are going to be the three. I think Cleveland's in the conversation, though. I believe in them.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I do. But I do think it's going to be tough to close with those two bigs. And that's why they're benching Jared Allen down those stretches. And I think that's what it'll look like and that's probably their best chance to not. I just don't know how you can play three out with two non shooters in a game in the playoffs in today's league. But I'm not done with Minnesota. Phoenix is a tough gamble. Denver. Denver's in that mix with those teams.

[Bill Simmons]

You're not done with Minnesota?

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, it's December 4th.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm done. If this is the roster.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I'm not. Who booed?

[Bill Simmons]

Thought you guys all hated Minnesota. They knocked out last year. Lot of.

[Ryan Rosillo]

There's a lot of transplants in Denver, Bill.

[Bill Simmons]

I do not like the body language or the ball Movement on the Minnesota Timberwolves.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You know what I want from you?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't like the dueling banjos. Your turn. My turn. I'm out.

[Ryan Rosillo]

When we get ready. When we do our first NBA Sunday pod.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I want your five favorite body language teams.

[Bill Simmons]

Five favorite bad body language teams.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, five favorite body language teams. Oh, like raving about high fives.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, my God. I thought Golden State was great last night. Everybody was standing body language doctor noticed that okc. I like when they all do the post game interview together. Heartwarming. Boston, I think has great stuff. Everybody's pulling for each other. You can see, you can tell which teams like each other.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Looks like you already did the segment. Be easy to prep.

[Bill Simmons]

Hey, Denver, this was great. I'm glad we came. We, we got an incredible Jokic game. That was the other reason we came. He delivered. He was great to watch in person. What a treasure. I hope you guys appreciate him. We love being here. Any last words?

[Ryan Rosillo]

We'll see you at the gun.

[Bill Simmons]

We will not see you at Shotgun Willys. Thank you, Denver. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Kyle Creighton and Steve Cerudi for producing. Thanks to Russell for joining me in Denver. Thanks to Elizabeth Fearman as well. Thanks to everybody who came out for the show. It was great. Don't forget to check out the Ringer.com's relaunch. And don't forget third podcast of the week coming Thursday night. Well after that Packers Lions game. And don't forget million dollar picks. Packers plus four and a half. Would love to throw for at least 200 yards, but 200k on that. That is a very, very nice parlay. Minus 101 on FanDuel. Wherever you can find FanDuel. That's it. I will see you in 24 hours. Him when we start. I don't have on the side on the.