← The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Bill Simmons Podcast
A Rollicking NBA Mailbag and March Madness Storylines With Rob Mahoney, Tate Frazier, and J. Kyle Mann
01:37:09
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- [00:00]
A
This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Imagine a game where you're on the court solo, no coach, no teammates, no one in the stands. Stressful, right? Sometimes life can feel like that, too. That's when State Farm, they show up. They're on the bench, ready to help you find the right coverage when it matters most, through an agent online or even on the app State Farm with the assist. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability and eligibility vary by state. It's the Bill Simmons Podcast, presented by the Ringer Podcast Network. Rob Mahoney is here. Kyle Mann and Tay Frazier will be joining later to talk a little March Madness. I have a new rewatchables tomorrow. How's CR Month been for you, Mahoney?
- [01:16]
B
I mean, isn't every month's CR Month for us?
- [01:18]
A
Well, we officially put a stamp on it. Told everyone. Even though every month is CR Month, this is really CR Month. You're going to be on the fourth one. We do so we have to Love and Die in LA is going up tomorrow. And then you're going to be on the Nice Guys, which we're doing a week from Monday. So stay tuned for that. We're going to do a little mailbag, and I have some topical questions. Rob, I only sent you like three, so some of these are surprises. You're not going to be surprised by this first one. This is from every Lakers fan I know. Simmons. Can I believe in the Lakers yet? Three question marks. That's just. That's an amalgam of all the Lakers texts that I've gotten. I know you did a little bit with Zach on his podcast on Thursday. Yeah, their last 11, they're eight and three. They have the fourth net rating. First offensive rating, Luka. Not that he didn't look like Luka before, but this is probably the most fun it seems like he's had. And they had an awesome win last night that came down to Austin Reaves throwing the ball against the rim and catching it and putting it back in, which works one out of 200 times. I don't know.
- [02:24]
B
But that was the one.
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A
300 times. There it was. That was the one.
- [02:26]
B
As precisely executed as that could exactly be.
- [02:29]
A
So what do you think? I mean, my four contenders right now, I would say the three west teams. I think the Celtics have to be in there now with Tatum.
- [02:38]
B
Sure.
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A
And then Cleveland, Knicks, Pistons. I want to see how these next 13 games go. Would you move that four spot in the west is wide open. Um, would you. Would you have the Lakers as the fourth Best team in the west right now.
- [02:53]
B
I, I'm very tempted and I. So here's the thing. It's tempting because the Lakers have been so good. The defense I think is legitimately worlds ahead of where it was a couple months ago. Marcus Smart in the rotation, in the starting lineup has been really good for them. Luka, as you mentioned, just been unbelievable. Like all those things are real. They're also real because the Nuggets have been kind of like, eh, like trying to get their feet under them. It's hard to know who's going to be healthy for them. And they're still finding their way. The Rockets have fallen off a cliff. The Timberwolves are out in the wilderness. So it's like if not the Lakers, is it the Wolves by default? Like I don't know who else you would pick.
- [03:29]
A
I mean you could have talked me into a stealth underdog Quippers case before Niederhauser got hurt. And then Kawhi sprained his ankle yesterday. It just seems like just to the
- [03:38]
B
Kinks, like at that point you're at risk of relegation.
- [03:41]
A
That's. And then. And Russ was talking just incredible amounts of smack. Nobody's ever talked more smack. 35 games under.500 then Russell Westbrook. There's a couple of things with the Lakers. One is the close game stuff where you just feel like Even yesterday they're down 109, 103 with 2 minutes left and you still feel like they're in it because they have Luka, right? And then they have Reeves as the second option. The free throw differential is nuts. It's. I think it's. I think they're plus they're over 300. I think it's plus 320 for the year. They're first in the league. They just get five more free throws just because of the style of play they have and because they're the Lakers. The biggest thing for me though, the LeBron, Luca, Reeves, Smart, Ayton, that five man is now plus five, which isn't terrible. You want your best lineup to be plus 10, plus 11. It's okay. And Smart has been, I think better than I thought he was going to be. Ayton is still a roller coaster. I don't trust him at all. But I think in the playoffs, you saw it yesterday, the ball seems to find Marcus Smart with a minute left, with 40 seconds left, with 38 seconds left. He's just the guy they're gonna leave open. And these games come down to whether he can hit that shot or Not. I don't trust it personally.
- [04:52]
B
What do you think all of recent history would agree with you? And it's just like by default with the rotation, there's nowhere else to turn. Like, he is. He is the guy out there. And having him defensively has been so important for them. Like, I'm okay, I'm okay with that trade off because he's going to miss a fair number of those shots, as you're alluding to, but he's going to make enough other plays to hopefully make up for it in the ways that they need. And so if as long as that's kind of coming out in the wash, that's great for them. But really the Marcus smart piece of it is just, it's going to matter less than, you know, Luka being able to problem solve at a level that basically no one else in the league can save for a couple of players. And if you're talking about these other kind of contenders in the West, I just trust an offense led by him with the ball. Even with, you know, everything that they're still sorting out in terms of the chemistry and the on court flow with LeBron, with Austin, all of that stuff is fine because Luka can figure it out. And he. I think he can figure it out more consistently than even someone like Ant can at this point, to be honest with you.
- [05:50]
A
And they had a timely LeBron injury, as weird as that sounds. He only left for a couple games. It reset the calibration and he came back. And it's been interesting to watch him reinvent himself as this basically third option. Can I rebound? Make some hustle plays? He made a great diving hustle play yesterday, which I've never seen him do. JJ said afterwards, he's like, I've never seen LeBron do that before. And LeBron's like, yeah, I don't think I've ever done that before.
- [06:15]
B
I mean, he was full Rodman horizontal extension into a dive for a loose ball. For a dude his age at this point in his career, to say nothing of everything he's accomplished, I mean, just a fucking awesome play to watch.
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A
Yeah. And I wonder, you know, I was thinking about players, older stages of their careers, and he's the oldest player we've ever had in this situation. But there was a Sean Marion, Dallas 2011, where he was just a different version of himself, better defensively than LeBron, obviously LeBron's better offensively than Sean Marion was, but really figured out how to be an effective, awesome, kind of third, fourth banana role player. Right. Karl Malone figured that out in the 2004 Lakers before he got hurt. We've seen guys kind of morph into somebody we never thought we'd see. I wonder if he can do it. Cause this was the first time when he came back from that streak and they were playing so well with Reaves and Luka. This is the first time I really felt like he was like, all right, it's you guys now and I'm over here and I'm here to help and I'm going to chip in and figure out with my super basketball brain how I can kind of nibble at the edges. I don't know if it's going to work or not, but I had written this team off as a contender. Now I'm like, because of what's happened in the west and because Denver is just a train wreck at the end of these games, I just wonder like, yeah, maybe they could win two rounds. I don't know.
- [07:36]
B
It's like at this point they feel like a somewhat convincing maybe and for
- [07:41]
A
where they have been, way to put
- [07:42]
B
it, that is a dramatic improvement. Like that is leaps and bounds ahead and if you look at all the season long indicators, they're not going to be all that convincing. Like things like point differential and stuff like that. The Lakers are going to be way behind some of these other competitive teams in the west, but you zoom in far enough and they just look like a totally different team.
- [07:59]
A
All right, couple more mailbag questions, we'll see. In the Lakers, obviously I'm horrified. It does leave the chance still of a Celtics Lakers Finals which would be. Which should be a basketball holy war. I really hope that happens.
- [08:11]
B
Are. Are you horrified though? If it does come down to it, the Lakers go on a great run and it is a Marcus smart shot that really seals something important for them. Is there not a part of you that would swell with pride?
- [08:22]
A
I do like Marcus. It is funny getting the PTSD of having been in that situation so many with the no, no. Yes, Marcus Shaft and now the Laker fans are just have basically taken that over. Okay, more mailbag stuff. So heading into this is from Christian in New Haven. Heading into Oscar Sunday, Joel Embiid has officially missed as many games as he's played right now it's 485 to 45. Did you know that it's dead even.
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C
Wow.
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A
45. 45 misplayed. Which side? This is Christian asking which side will get to 500 first games played or games missed. What's the gambling line? So I think with his Injuries now and the fact that they're in the playoffs, we're going to see him again. So I think I'm probably a little more likely to bet on the games played versus the games missed. But this would be unbelievable if he got to a thousand. Exactly. And it was 500. 500. We could not have predicted that. You seem like. You seem saddened by this.
- [09:19]
B
I mean, I'm saddened by most things surrounding Joel Embiid, especially if it does end up being 500 games missed first. Like, it would be a fair representation of what his career has been for the most part. But, yeah, I'm going to be pretty bummed out about that.
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A
Yeah, this is. I mean, you could kind of see the signs. Even when he got hurt in the draft process, and he's a big guy, 7 foot 2. There's a lot of red flags, but when you look at the games played the last couple years, I think it's like 33, 19. It's tough.
- [09:48]
B
This whole Sixers season has been such a mess. I feel like I like a lot of the fringe guys on their roster. And at some point, I wished on a monkey's paw that I wish Dominic Barlow would get more minutes. And this is what happens. Paul George gets suspended. Tyrese Maxey is out with the ankle thing or whatever. He's dealing with Joel in and out of the lineup. They just can't ever get any positive momentum in any direction. And that's in a season where they just drafted Vijay Edgecombe, who's awesome.
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A
The McCain trade, as. As relatively minor as that was, did not help.
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B
Damning.
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A
The fact that he went to OKC was immediately good. I actually thought they got a lot back for him. They got the Rockets pick three second rounders. He wasn't really playing for the Sixers, but now it looks terrible.
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B
Are there. Are there any other GMs or teams where, if they call interested in the guy at the end of your bench other than the Thunder, where it's like the Thunder, like, I think you should be suspicious, but is there anyone else in that category for you where if the spurs call or if the Nuggets call or if the Nuggets call, don't
- [10:45]
A
you think Brad Stevens is at that level now? He's, like, cherry picking these, you know, weird role players. Like, even somebody like Kata was just kind of released by Sacramento, I'd be nervous. Presti, Brad Stevens, San Antonio would be the three. I'd be nervous.
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B
As much as I would like to dispel the Celtics fanaticism around this point, like, I don't know what to tell you. Like Baylor Shireman is an important part of this team. It's like four consecutive years of late first and like early second round picks coming home to roost. Like they just have cracked this stuff.
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A
Hugo having like one of the 10 greatest plus minuses of all time. It's a classic. This is from Harriet, didn't say where she's from. Have we reached a weird place with these scoring streaks? So this is, I guess coming off the SGA thing, we treat them like this continuous thing, but the second the playoffs start, the streak goes into hibernation. SGA claims he's at 120 plus straight games at 20 points, but he went under that number three times in the last playoffs. When the games matter most. She's confused. I'm a little confused by it too. But I think this is what we do with regular season streaks. Cause I went back and I looked Wilt when he had his long streak, he had, I don't know, six playoff games or something, but he never went under the 20. So it actually would have rolled over. But we. There is this delineation between regular season and playoffs. So I'm okay with it. The bigger thing to me is, did you know this was a streak like a year ago? Did you know what the record was? My whole thing is when we have these streaks and I never knew what the record was and who held it and then you're telling me it's a streak. Yeah, I'm just like, okay, I guess that's a streak, but it's not, you know, like the 33 game Lakers streak. That's a streak. I know what that is. People remember it. People have been talking about it forever. But did this feel like a manufactured one to you or one that we should have read?
- [12:31]
B
So I knew that Wilt held it, but yeah, I could not have told you the number. And to your point, I think that does separate it from being the pinnacle in terms of these streaks or these records that are broken. Yeah, you need to know it in specificity if it's really hitting home. At the same time, it's an amazing record to hold and an incredible achievement for Shay in particular, who has just turned himself into such an undeniable force and exactly the kind of guy who you would think would hold a record like that.
- [12:58]
A
And Today he had 10 in the fourth quarter and they're pretty easily beating Minnesota, who's just out to lunch. I don't know what's going on with them. Um, but Then somehow got the 10 points and it was organic. It wasn't like he was like gunning it against the Wizards in the fourth quarter. You know, he was still like, the game was a little bit in doubt. And he got a great N1 against Ant to get the record. But it's weird. I think the Kobe nine 40 point games in a row is more impressive for me.
- [13:24]
B
More impressive than Shay holding the now former Wilt record.
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A
The night when it happened. It was the 0203 season. We had no scoring at all that year, right? That was like, there was like five teams that were fun to watch. And when somebody had 40 points, like once you were like, whoa, he had 41. It was. It just was a lot. And I think, I vaguely remember, I think Shaq got hurt and Kobe was in that. I'm ready for this to be my team. Shaq's out. Let me carry it. Give me the car keys. And was fucking awesome. And I thought nine straight 40 pointers, like somebody getting a 10 for that. I'd at least have more of an opinion on it because I remembered the Kobe streak. But yeah, 120. It'll be interesting. Like, could Shay get to like 200? He's so automatic and he's such a robot. It would almost be like he would have to get hurt in the first half or get crazy foul trouble. It's kind of hard to imagine a scenario where he wouldn't get 20. It's too easy for him to score.
- [14:21]
B
It's so easy for him to do it. The team is set up for him to do it. And especially in a season like this where, you know, J Dub has been unavailable for good portions of it and also not quite himself when he has played, it's just like this is Shai's time to do exactly this sort of thing and he can modulate as you need him to in a playoff series. I. I do think the question of, like, how we count this stuff is interesting. I don't. I don't have a good alternative because if you, if you include the playoffs, guys like Shai will get disqualified for being good, whereas a Zach Levine will just all of a sudden become a record holder because he never actually plays a playoff game. So I don't think it's fair to penalize him for it. But I don't think there's a great solution.
- [15:00]
A
I agree with you. So the warriors in 16, when they won the 25 straight, they also won the last game of the previous season. So technically it was 26 straight. We just don't do it that way. We delineate it. This is from huge fan of the Pod Juan. As an early birthday gift, my cousin got me tickets and I got to witness Bam's 83 point game in person. What started out as a quick grab for some cheap tickets turned into the most fever dream experience I've ever had as a Heat fan. What NBA game have you attended that felt most like a fever dream?
- [15:31]
B
I gotta say, I hadn't considered the experience of just, like, buying a normal Heat ticket and showing up and getting that game. We've talked so much about, like, people tuning in at home, you know, the players on the court, all of us, and, like, wringing our hands about what this means for the ethics of the sport. But just like you just thought this was going to be a normal weeknight and bam Adebayo scored 83 points, and now you have to make sense of that in your everyday life. It's just like a really unique thing.
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A
I can't imagine even in the first quarter being like, Does Bam have 30? What's going on here? My fever dream game was I was at the game when Larry Bird and Dr. J had the fight.
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B
Wow.
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A
And it was just the most. And it happened right in front of me, and it was the most startling. And Bird was kicking his ass. That game, it was kind of the passing of the torch game, but watching them actually get in a fight was the most stunning thing I've ever seen in person. Obviously, the artest melee would have been much crazier, but just like, wow, these guys are fighting. Like, these were, like, the two icons of the league, along with magic, you know? And it was just like, I can't believe this is happening. The only other fever dream game I had was the game 6, 2012 Celtics heat that I went to when LeBron came out. And it seemed like they were gonna end the Heat dynasty before they won a title and they were gonna blow up. And then LeBron completely crushed them. And it just felt for two hours, like, just helpless, like, oh, my God, have you been to what was your fever dream game? Do you have one? Maybe you haven't had one yet.
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B
I think for me, it is distinctly Game 6, Clay versus Oklahoma City in 2016, where he had 11 threes in that game. Like, I've just never seen a human being engulfed in more flames than Klay Thompson in that game. And it was one of those that in the moment, it was like, this feels like something just shifted. Like history just kind of changed in real time. And I Thought that was going to mean the warriors were going to go on to win and be crowned as one of the great teams of all time, which they still are. But I would say it did two things fundamentally, like Kevin Durant probably doesn't leave the Thunder without that game. And then we don't get the just absolutely iconic Cavs comeback in the Finals in quite the same way or anything resembling the same way without that particular game. So a lot did shift, just maybe not quite what I expected.
- [17:45]
A
And we would have had an OKC Cleveland 2016 finals, which would have been strange. So Joe Robinson sent a two part question based off the BAM 83. If you had just said for last decade five guys you would have pegged to break the 81, he said for him it would have been KD, Luka, Curry, Harden and Dame. Did that look like the right five for you? That checks out Katie Luca, because I don't, I don't think LeBron, he was never a guy that was going to do that. Yeah, I don't Even know what LeBron's highest point total was, but I don't even think he got to. It's just not how he played. I don't think he would have taken that many shots. But those five guys seem like the right guys.
- [18:25]
B
Those seem, those seem like good, honestly, like healthy MVP season. Joel, I think was a decent candidate for this. Like he's had so many runs where he's doing like point a minute or better. And then maybe Russ at the height of his powers when no one could tell him no and he could take any shot he wanted, I could see him at least gunning for it.
- [18:43]
A
And Cam Thomas, that would be your eighth. Just Cam Thomas really feeling it one night. His second part was a more interesting one to me and I talked about this with legs a little bit, but he asked with Bam scoring 83, does somebody break Wilt's record before 2030? I don't think before 2030, but I do think it'll happen. I went back and I looked at Bam's 83, Kobe's 81, Kobe's 62 against Dallas when he only had the three quarters, Luca's 73, Dame's 1 and Dame's 71. And I tried to figure out like what the box score would look like. So Kobe's 81, where he's 28 for 46. He had seven threes, 18 for 20 from the free throw line. So you'd have to bump some of that up. Anyway, here's. I think somebody would have to go 30 for 46 to have to make 30 field goals. Yeah, 14 for like 25 from three. So 14, three, 16 twos, and then 26 for 31 from the free throw line. Now as crazy as all that sounds, it's a slightly elevated from some of the best performances in those different categories. So 30 for 46, you'd have to go 16 for 21 from 2. It's like, well, that's crazy. Well, Luka, when He had his 73, Luka was 25 for 33, but he was 8 for 13 from 3. He went 17 for 20 on twos. And this leads to my point, I think if anyone can get to 90, I think it's Luka. The more I thought about this over the last few days, like combination of three point shooting, physicality, if he was in shape enough to have the endurance, if he went for it, like guys were out on the team, if the game stayed relatively close, if he started fouling guys out, I think he would be my pick.
- [20:29]
B
Everything you're saying makes sense. Like he has the role for it, he has the talent for it, he has the game for it. He also has like the fuck you spite factor for it where like this wasn't really an issue for Bam and the Wizards, but like on the wrong night against the wrong opponent, if you get under Lucas skin, like ask the Chicago Bulls, like they just went through this. Like you talk trash to that guy in the middle of the game and all of a sudden he goes off for 50.
- [20:52]
A
Like it's just apologizing after. I didn't mean to.
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B
Wasn't familiar with your game. Uh, like I, I think he has all of that going in his favor. The question of like someone breaking a hundred though is, I think it would require like a, a dramatic shift in the way the game is played. And so that might be an argument against Luka. Just as somebody who is anchored in the here and now. If someone is going to make like eventually make a run at that thing, it may have to be 10 or 15 or 20 years from now. Where ultimately the, the old, like the strategy of the leagues has shifted so much that it would allow for it. Because so many of the recent scoring binges, Bam included, frankly, have been so three point reliant. Because that's the way that the league has changed over time. Right? Like there's just so much more allowance for guys like Steph and Luka to chase records and pursue them in that way. But that's just kind of what everyone does now. And so if Someone was going to do it. If someone was going to get close, I would think we might have already seen it.
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A
Bam was 7 for 22 from 3. If you tweet that to 11 for 22 now I'm at 95.
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B
That's fair.
- [21:54]
A
I think Bam part of the recipe was what Bam did in that game. Raid the 30 in the first quarter. I think that's a necessity. I think you need between 30 and 33 in the first quarter and I think you need to be over 50 at halftime. And then that fourth quarter, if you're in the mid to high 60s, you can really game the fourth quarter. And you saw a little like Miami with the fouling and trying to get the ball back. I think you could game the system a little bit. Brad from Nashville writes, hi, Bill. One night in 2006, Kobe scored 81 and I was high. I emailed you to tell me, tell you that the mambo is freaking me out and it made the mailbag. 20 years later in 2026, Bam scored 83 and I'm drunk and I'm emailing you to tell you that it's freaking me out. So things never change. Thanks, Brad. Thanks for weighing in.
- [22:40]
B
Brad, I think us and the people who love you in your life might need to sit down and have some conversations.
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A
Brad. Brad, can you appear at this location at 3 o'?
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C
Clock?
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A
Some of your friends are going to be. Derek from Charlotte says the NFL has been doing the replay reviews during the commercial break. Coming back from the play, ready to go. And the announcers tell us the decision. Why can't the NBA do this? They spent commercials reviewing the play. We come back, they're still reviewing. Then they give us a 35 second explanation no one needs. It's a great point. I think this could just be done in three and a half minutes. Review. Let's go to commercial. Come back. The refs have 75 seconds to determine it. How many, how long can you stare at the replay monitor? Like let's a long time. Do you know right away or not?
- [23:24]
B
They're out there like watching one battle after another. They're just like fully locked in for hours. It seems like.
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A
There was one the other day. I swear it was like 10 minutes but I just think it's like 75 second shot clock on it. Basically just see every replay, get four of them and this should not take more than three and a half minutes total. And we should be in commercial for some of it. Why, why wouldn't that be how we did it?
- [23:44]
B
I'm Absolutely willing to concede the commercial time like sell me Taco Bell or whatever it needs to happen. Especially when you'll catch moments during these broadcasts where actual gameplay is going on. Game goes minimized, ad goes almost full screen as like again as the game is going on. Why is that not happening during a replay review? Why aren't we just factoring that? Like you're just going to have time baked into all of these games where somebody challenges and there's dead time on air and you can do as many reads as you want. You can rapid fire them if you like. I will be a susceptible audience.
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A
And why haven't they figured out the league pastimeouts when they just cut to the people dancing on the to try to get in the Jumbotron. That's what I want. You don't want that. I tell you, my wife loves it. And it's very illuminating on different parts of the country how. How desperate and excited they are to get on the Jumbotron. Right. So some of the coasts little. Little more restrained. We get into some of the more fun cities. People are really getting into it.
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B
Okay, so you really have a sense of. I was worried you're going coastal elite with this. But you're saying people are being too cool on the coasts.
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A
I think people are. It's like some people are like, oh look, come on, there's. You go to some of the NBA cities, they are trying to get on, they're doing dances, they're shaking stuff. Great stuff. Next question's from Brian Greenway. He had a nickname for Con Canippo. He wants to call him Shotgun Khan. Not only is it a cool nickname that captures his shooting, it also describes how Khan rode in Bill's car. Presumably Bill didn't strap him into one of Zoe's old car seats. I'm glad people are still getting mileage out of that. By the way, I didn't drive him to his house, I drove him to his hotel.
- [25:24]
B
Sure. It's an important distinction. I appreciate you clarifying on this point.
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A
I would do it again.
- [25:29]
B
The only problem with this is you can't vote for it. Like you can't be the one to assign Khan the Bill oriented nickname. It has to come from there. It's got to come from the world.
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A
It's gotta be aggregate. Parker writes in what's the most important three point shot of Steph Curry's career. I figured you'd know. Couple that jumped to mind for him. Double bang gold medal. The final three MSG record breaker 2015 game six seven minutes. I don't even remember that one. And then 20, 22, NBA finals, game four, which doesn't necessarily have the one signature shot for me, Rob. Olympic shots one, double bangs two. And I think he hits three threes in a row in the third quarter. Game four and 22 in the finals in Boston. And the second one is just from 32ft. And Tatum bumps into him and they don't call it. And it's the official moment of that game where all the Boston fans were like, oh, no, I've seen this movie before. When he gets like this. Oh, no. And then he hit that third one right after that one in the corner when he gave it to Gary Payton. Peyton gave him the little slip pass back and he hit it. So that sequence, but it's really the collective sequence. I think it's the Olympic shot. What do you think?
- [26:44]
B
I would go double bang? I think, really? I think just because it's like a statement of identity. Right. It has become so intertwined with the mythology of Steph, kind of how we understood him as a player, and the unique threat he presents on the floor.
- [26:58]
C
If.
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B
If, like the. What is the official name that's been given to the Olympic shot? The Golden Dagger. The Golden Slumber. I think maybe it is the Golden Dagger, actually. If it had never happened, I don't think we. I mean, maybe we can workshop it. If it had never happened, I don't think it would change the way we think about Steph. But if the double bang had never happened, I do think that would change the way we think about him.
- [27:22]
A
So you're saying Double Bang was basically like his Scorsese taxi driver? Yes, like arrival. Like, yeah, the world is now different, but this is.
- [27:31]
B
This is something else.
- [27:32]
A
The world is now different.
- [27:33]
B
Yes.
- [27:34]
A
Buckle the fuck up. Yeah, I think that's good. I think you're right. So double bang one, Olympic shot two. And I would say that third, that middle shot of the three against Boston, because that's his greatest game. And that's like. That's the exclamation point for the career that puts him in the 10 to 12, best all time. He needed that last finals.
- [27:53]
B
Oh, I mean, and those. I would say those shots in particular, especially the ones in Boston. I mean, Brad might have been in that crowd. Cause it was among the drunkest crowds I have ever seen at any sporting event. It was like some of these games were starting.
- [28:06]
A
Nine o' clock start. Yeah.
- [28:08]
B
You could tell people have just been drinking for six straight hours in anticipation of these games. And then Steph is just silencing, you know, all of your ship and up to Boston. So condolences.
- [28:18]
A
That's Boston right now during St. Patrick's Day. The St. Patrick's Day parade on Sundays. Stay safe out there, everybody. Nobody's. Nobody in that parade is watching this. This is from Chris Steves. This was an awesome question. I didn't even really come up with an answer for this. He lives in San Antonio. The town has always wanted an NFL team, but it won't happen because of the Cowboys. But hypothetically, would you trade Wemby for the Los Angeles Chargers?
- [28:42]
B
Oh my God.
- [28:44]
A
Is it better to have one dynastic pro team or two franchises at once? FYI, I would not do it for Wemby. So he would not trade Wemby for the Los Angeles Chargers. So I guess the way to look back at it, because they've had this already with Duncan. Would they have traded the entire Duncan era? Duncan's just somewhere else. But you get an NFL team that whole time, what would you pick? Really tough one.
- [29:11]
B
I don't think that's.
- [29:11]
A
I don't even know where I land on this, Bill.
- [29:13]
B
I don't think it's that tough. You're going to trade one of the most successful runs of any sports team in modern history for like, what if there's a chance this football team is good some point? Like, why would you do that?
- [29:24]
A
What if you love the NFL? You've always wanted them to get a team.
- [29:27]
B
You're asking the wrong person to start.
- [29:28]
A
Yeah, I would keep the Wemby slash Duncan, because if you have a chance to have one of the 10 best players of all time playing in your city for 15 years, I think that trumps the NFL team.
- [29:39]
B
But where's the line? Would you trade Stefan Castle?
- [29:43]
A
Oh, yeah. I'd even throw in some picks. Yeah, that. I mean that's. No, it would have to be a generational thing. I'd be interested to know what the spurs fans would think. I bet it would be like 80, 20. I'd rather have Wemby, but I bet there's like a little. Because they're not getting an NFL team otherwise.
- [29:59]
B
Like, come on, what are we talking about?
- [30:01]
A
Well, you're not an NFL guy. This is from Nathan in Appleton, Wisconsin. He said the perfect gift for cousin Sal to get you would be a 2025 Patriots AFC Champions T shirt. My question for you, what piece of championship apparel would have been the biggest good natured fuck you to a fan friend of that team.
- [30:20]
B
Wow.
- [30:21]
A
As a Pats Fan. I don't think it's possible to top eight. 07 Pat's AFC Champions T shirt. So this is really kind of a race for second. I had a couple other ideas, but I don't know. Off the top of your head if you had one.
- [30:33]
B
I'm trying to think is it. I just don't think there's anything you could say to like a Warriors fan about blowing three one that they haven't already heard or. And they have so many championships to keep them warm at night. So like what?
- [30:45]
A
That's the thing.
- [30:45]
B
So who are really even the other contenders for the NBA?
- [30:48]
A
I have some. I have some options. The 2004 Yankees AL East Division Championship when they then they go to lose four in a row to the Red Sox even though the Yankees have won World Series before and since tough loss. I don't think that's the answer. 07 Pats. Whatever. The Pats won six. I had the warriors down. The two I kind of concentrated on are both NBA. Although it's almost too mean to do it to Buffalo. I feel like that like you might actually get beaten up if you had like a Bulls AFC title. Whatever. The 76 Suns Western Champs. That was the year the triple overtime game when the Suns fans are still mad at the referee who didn't call the Paul Silas timeout.
- [31:26]
B
If you're giving a fuck you gift to somebody who was invested in the
- [31:31]
A
76, 78 years old. He's like why? Why did you give me this?
- [31:35]
B
You trying to commit murder? What are you doing?
- [31:37]
A
The 93 Knicks Eastern whatever division they won when they lost to the Bulls that year with like a Charles Smith writing on it. I think would. Would be really mean. But I. I think the answer is is. Is probably anything with the Bills or the Vikings because they haven't won. That's just an extra level of meaning. Anything from any conference championship that they won but they don't have with the warriors. We're like, well we did win in 2017 and 18. It's fine when you haven't won. I think that's probably the worst one.
- [32:11]
B
Especially if they've won. Any team that's won since I just think wouldn't be applicable. The only other NBA thing that comes to mind is if you really wanted to dig in on the Lakers fan in your life and this isn't like a. You have to dig up this merch that was never made or shipped off to another country and donated. If you just want to really hammer them the bubble title and just like keep Talking it up and keep, keep reinforcing how. What an amazing accomplishment it was at that day.
- [32:36]
A
Oh yeah. Like an ironic. The bubble. The best title anyone's ever won. I like that.
- [32:40]
B
I think it could work.
- [32:42]
A
Tom writes, I know NBA title defenses are a big thing for you. That is true. I do love the title defense. I do think that should be considered part of the championship title. How do you rate OKC's title defense this year? Where do you think it stacks up against the. The recent ones? He thought. He thought it was a really good one. So I think it's been a home run. Yeah, I know they're not going to get 70 plus wins. A lot of that had to do with injuries. But I wrote down some stuff. SGA definitely I think went up a half level. And this was a guy who was the MVP and had an awesome start to finish year last year. But the end of the game stuff is really starting to feel a little MJ ish. Right. So that's like crazy. That has to be part of the title defense. They've really gone out in these signature games and treated them like real playoff games. Like the Denver game the other night or Boston. Like I do feel like they. They're defending whatever place they have in the hierarchy. And you could feel that in these games.
- [33:42]
B
Even the response game against the spurs where it was just like, oh, you guys think you have the one up on us in this matchup? This is what happens when we take you seriously.
- [33:50]
A
Yeah. They intro to new a few new characters which for a TV show is important. We've been. AJ Mitchell has joined the cast. Huge Jared McCain, a slightly more offensive K's on Wallace. He's here too now.
- [34:03]
B
Hell yeah.
- [34:04]
A
So we have that. Then some other fun stuff. Dort replaced Draymond as the league's biggest villain.
- [34:09]
B
Definitely.
- [34:10]
A
I think it's. I don't even think it's questionable he's running away for that. They become the poster boys for foul baiting, which is the league's second worst crisis other than tanking. Now there's other people that do it, but I think people point to them the most. So that helps their like relevancy title defense thing. Their fans and media members are just. You talking about us? What? There's a lot of that. Yeah. Combative. Combative Basketball city. Their games are always entertaining. And then, you know, 20. They have 26 J Dub games right now and half a Hartenstein season and they're on pace for like 63 and 19. I give this. I give this title defense an A plus.
- [34:48]
B
Hard to imagine things going better considering what has not gone well. Right? Considering that those injury concerns and short term and long term. How could you hope for more than this?
- [34:59]
A
You can't. Really fun to watch too. I think their games have been super entertaining. Josiah writes he had a nickname. Him and his buddies have started calling Keonte George the Speaker.
- [35:09]
B
Oh, is this a keynote bit?
- [35:12]
A
You've heard this.
- [35:13]
B
This is apparel of anyone who texts or types a lot about Keonte George.
- [35:18]
A
So that's what he said. Every time they're Jazz fans, every time they type Chiantay, it gets changed to keynote. So they just call him the speaker. So Giannis is another one where this happens, where it always throws in the apostrophe. It's the Yannis apostrophe S. And I thought Eddie Q was like a huge. The guy that runs Apple content. I thought he was a huge NBA fan. I don't know. How are they having these typos with the Apple phone?
- [35:43]
B
Get it together.
- [35:44]
A
Come on, Apple.
- [35:45]
B
My only concern about Keonte George the speaker sounds like something deeply religious from a state where they just don't mess around with that stuff. So, like, I, I just want to. I want to get clearance that, like, we're in safe ground here, you know?
- [35:56]
A
Okay. Ron from Florida wants to know he's. Which current NBA teammates are most deserving of the Reggie Willis Howie Kendrick Memorial Award presenting to two teammates who need to switch names. He volunteers Jeremy Grant and Donovan Clingan. Clingan just looks like a Jeremy to me. Big fan of the pod.
- [36:12]
B
He does look like a Jeremy.
- [36:14]
A
So just walk me through this. If Shay Gilgeous, Alexander and Isaiah Joe had just switched names eight years ago.
- [36:23]
C
Okay.
- [36:24]
A
And it was Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant and Isaiah Joe. Is Isaiah Joe just a cooler name? Because we call Shay sga. It has to be an acronym. It's. People spell the Gilgis Rom. Some people call Gilgis.
- [36:36]
B
Yeah.
- [36:37]
A
If he was just Isaiah Joe, would that have increased his cool, cool quota by like, I don't know, 10%?
- [36:44]
B
Isaiah Joe is a pretty cool name,
- [36:46]
A
but pretty great name.
- [36:47]
B
Alexander also has a nice ring to it.
- [36:50]
A
So you think we're used to. You think the Shay works because it's so distinct?
- [36:53]
B
I think it's so distinct. My question is, are we switching both names or just one name? Like.
- [36:57]
A
No, you have to switch both. It has to work for each.
- [37:00]
B
So it's not Jeremy Clingan, it's Donovan Clingan becomes Jeremy Grant and vice versa. Okay.
- [37:06]
A
I went through all the Rosters. Cause I really enjoyed this question. I couldn't find a perfect one. I thought for sure I'd be like, oh, there's gotta. And I just couldn't. I was like, it was just way harder than I thought. Ben Nielsen wants to. He asked, are we officially done with artificially built basketball teams winning championships? LeBron era, Heat 16, Cavs 19, Raptors.
- [37:28]
B
What does that mean?
- [37:28]
A
Warriors just, I guess, like, instead of homegrown it, Homegrowing your. Your guys.
- [37:33]
B
Yeah.
- [37:35]
A
Either using free agency and slapping guys together, making big, some sort of big piece. Champions that are built more organically. Um, I'll say this. I do think it would be way. I think it'd be impossible now to do the 2011 heat. Cause I think the league's too deep to just be like, we're going to have three guys and that's it. You have no chance in 2026, everybody. There's so much depth.
- [37:58]
B
Free agency just doesn't work the same way either at all.
- [38:01]
A
Yeah. So I think in a weird way, it's a weird question, but I think he's right. I think it would be way harder to just be like. Like what the Nets did with KD and Kyrie. We're going to use free agency. We're going to build an instant contender and blow. I don't. I don't know if you could do it the same way anymore.
- [38:15]
B
I don't think you can do it that way. But also, I don't want to pretend like the Knicks drafted Jalen Brunson. You know, like there. I think there are successful cases around the league right now, like trade different towns. And we're talking about the Lakers as a potential contender. That's not because of a guy they drafted. Like, they're really successful teams who are building them, quote, unquote, artificially, whatever that means.
- [38:36]
A
Alec D. Wants to know, can life as a Kings fan get any worse? After 20 years of incompetence, we've reached a new level. Worst record in the league. Now they're. They're actually not worst record in the league. But when he got this. Yes, when he got this, they, they were the worst.
- [38:51]
B
I would argue that might make it worse that they've. They've gone like three and one in
- [38:54]
A
their last four, so maybe it's even worse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he also wants to point out they have a top five payroll, so they have the third worst record of the week at a top five payroll. He's like, how could we do worse than this? And the answer is I don't really know. This is really the James Dolan. This was the mid 2000 Knicks where they would have, you know, the second biggest payroll in the league, but they would go 19 and 63. I think when you can combine overspending with a terrible record and really no assets, that's. That's peak. Can you do worse than that?
- [39:31]
B
I think this is about as bad as it gets. Like the guys who are on the team. No, nobody wants in terms of like seeing your way out through a trade. Even if you're hoping for the draft again. They just fell from the worst record in the league to like the third or fourth worst record in the league. Which with the flattened odds isn't as devastating, but wouldn't guarantee you a top five pick so disaster could strike. I had no idea they were the fifth highest payroll. That is a fucking mess.
- [39:57]
A
He always said they're top five. It might even be higher than five.
- [39:59]
B
Oh my God.
- [40:01]
A
Dan King wants to know Cooper Flag Celtics fandom and Maine ties. I don't know if you saw the Celtic game. The entire state of Maine was at the Celtics Mavs game rooting for Cooper Flag. There's a bargaining chip that has not been discussed, says Dan King. Ace flag. Ace's twin. The twin brother who's at University of Maine. He was a freshman this year. The University of Maine wasn't very good, but he was, you know, he plays basketball. And if you sign, if you sign Ace now, maybe do a second round pick, stash him on the roster for you. Maybe you sign him to like a five year deal. So it's like, hey Cooper, look over here. I like this Ace flag. By the way. Celtics Dan King points out Celtics G league team is in Maine. A flag on the main Celtics as the lure for Cooper. Fat, by the way. I know you, you have a lot of Dallas fans in your life with Texas connections.
- [40:57]
B
You can't do this to them.
- [40:58]
A
You can't absolutely hate like it's really getting bad how much they hate when I pick up this Cooper Flag.
- [41:04]
B
Understandably, they've been through some stuff. Phil.
- [41:07]
A
I get it, I get it. But so. So the Thanasis. Alexander Tupacupo can't speak. Come on, Bill Antetokounmpo.
- [41:16]
B
There we go. That's closer.
- [41:18]
A
Do you believe in this as a strategy? Lord, the family member. It's pretty interesting.
- [41:23]
B
I feel like it could work the other way just fine. Like couldn't you just.
- [41:26]
A
And you're stuck. Well, like you just wait. Wait to get him and then get the family member.
- [41:30]
B
Yeah. Like, don't you need to get Cooper first and then you can just sign Ace flag to whatever contract you would like to sign him to because otherwise I just don't know that Ace is going to be in a hot enough demand. Unless I'm just like dramatically misunderstanding his potential draft stock. That's fair to think that he will lure Cooper there.
- [41:48]
A
Steven describes himself as a mildly delusional Celtics fan and sat a theory for eight years. He's been ridiculed. I sent this to you ahead of time. He believes that if Shane Larkin doesn't get hurt during the 2018 Eastern Conference semis against Philly, the Celtics would have beaten the Cavaliers and lost in the finals. He thought he would have given some key minutes in Game 7 when Terry Rozier was falling apart. Your thoughts? Is my Shane Lurkin would have saved game 7 theory insane? I will continue to believe it until my dying days. So my. Obviously it's an insane theory.
- [42:20]
B
Yes.
- [42:20]
A
My question for you is, what's your most insane basketball historical thing that you actually believe that you will die on the corner of?
- [42:28]
B
Before we get to that, can we make sure Shane is okay? Can we get like a wellness check?
- [42:32]
A
Steven? Yeah, Steven, you might not be okay.
- [42:35]
B
I mean, Shane I want to check on too, because I think he's playing overseas somewhere. But we got to check on some things. Mine is that Sam Cassell definitely did break his hip doing the big balls dance in 2004 and that we would be looking at a dramatically different version of NBA history if he had just, like, slightly smaller balls, to be honest with you.
- [42:53]
A
Did he really get hurt doing that?
- [42:55]
B
It's. Some people believe so, including me.
- [42:58]
A
Oh, that's a great. Why isn't conspiracy built? My. Why haven't I done a deep dive on. That's a great one. Yeah. Because they lined up really nicely with the Lakers.
- [43:06]
B
Lined up nicely with the Lakers. Probably could have won that series if they'd been a little healthier than, you know, the 2004 Pistons title that we hold up as this, like, beacon for all these other teams. What if it just, like, literally had never happened because Sam Cassell wasn't quite so enthusiastic?
- [43:19]
A
It's a great one. So Sam Cassell's big balls dance swung the finals and they'll probably match up better with the Pistons. Mine is. I've said this before, it won't be a complete shocker to people, but the 2002 Celtics, who lost to the Nets in six, I think they could have thrown some Haymakers at the 02 Lakers. They really matched up with them. Well, I know this is the insane theory. I'll believe to your death they beat them in la, I think two years in a row. The Pierce Antoine combo. For some reason the Lakers just didn't really like playing with them. They liked going at Kobe. I don't know, I just feel like we could have thrown some punches.
- [43:59]
B
You think the Antoine Walker era, Tony
- [44:01]
A
Delts were going to Rodney Rogers, Kenny Anderson, I don't know. Are you okay? Is everyone better than the Nets? Okay. Oh, two questions from Justin, from Oregon. We'll go quick. The next weird career arc like the Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, like the late prime that gets extended. Who's your best candidate for that? Do you have one? I sent this to you.
- [44:24]
B
I mean I think there's some guys where it's like what if James Harden just becomes Jose Calderon for a while, you know, what if he just becomes a pure caretaker point guard? Like I'm going to commit zero turnovers and have 12 assists a game and it's like I'm going to. I'm going to shift into a totally different kind of player. But I think he could do that if he wanted to.
- [44:40]
A
So he's like fun old guy at a pickup game.
- [44:43]
B
Exactly.
- [44:44]
A
But that's his NBA career for like four years. It's like just super fun to play with.
- [44:47]
B
I think we talk about like oh, the guys who can hang around a long time like the Steps or the LeBron's for example. But if you can just be like a point guard who can manage the game and not have to move that fast in bursts, I think you can play a while if you would like.
- [45:01]
A
Mine was Carl Anthony Towns slowly morphing into his Sam Perkins early 90s situation. I like that stretch 5 with some size rebounding, not a lot much else. He's only making like 5 million a year veteran experience. And then his second question was 5 year panic trade. Which young superstar will eventually be involved in the next. Shocking. We never thought he'd get trade to move like KD, Luca, etc. This is clearly Paolo would be the answer for this. I don't even know it'd be that shocking. Even though he's been playing better lately,
- [45:32]
B
he's been playing better and he's been playing super well in kind of a simplified context. So I think that that's the only thing about this question is of the young guys you would consider superstars, I just really don't see any of them being moved. You know, like your, your Wemby's your Anthony Edwardses, your Cades, or Tyrese Halliburtons. Like, that's not happening. Uh, so yeah, I think Paolo, the conversation will continue. Or Franz, if you prefer. Like, however you suss those guys out. I also have just come to accept I don't have a reason for this. I don't have a mechanism that will force it to happen. But I've come to accept that the Sixers are just like, not operating in a normal plane of existence. And so if you told me someone panicked and traded Tyrese Maxey, I'd be like, yeah, that sounds like a normal Sixers thing to me.
- [46:17]
A
Very fair. I would throw Evan Mobley in there too, as the kind of like they trade him and then he puts on 15 pounds of muscle and all of a sudden goes up a level.
- [46:26]
B
Can we go back for a second to the weird career arc? Because there was one thing I was thinking about for the first time and it is, what is a 35 year old LaMelo ball like? Like, who is that person?
- [46:39]
A
Like White Chocolate on the Memphis Grizzlies in the mid late 2000s, just really
- [46:44]
B
embrace, not even as a basketball player. Like, who is that person? Like, what happens to someone like LaMelo Ball when he has to reckon with the reality of his 30s? I just. I'm baffled by it.
- [46:55]
A
I can't wait to find out. Derek from Bloomington wants to know how do tall players sleep on the road in hotels? A king bed, dimension wise, can only comfortably fit a 7 foot 4 person sleeping diagonally. This means Wemby is sleeping diagonally with his feet two inches off the bed. Isn't he getting less than ideal rest every rogue game? All right, I made some. I sent some texts on this one to find out. And teams carry extenders for the hotel beds for the tall guys. Wow. And Wemby is a custom extender. That's what I found.
- [47:24]
B
This is honestly great.
- [47:25]
A
So they have this covered. Yeah, they don't want these guys sleeping badly, so they. They have like little extender things. So never thought of it. Great question.
- [47:32]
B
See, 10 years ago, that was like an ESPN the Magazine feature and you just potted it out.
- [47:38]
A
Tim Keown. Spurious. This is from Hans. I'm not going to pretend to pronounce his last name, but it's O, N, J, A, N, W S. He said he had the exact same reaction to finding out Bam scored 83 as he did to finding out Luka got traded. My brain breaks upon realizing the realness of it. I may never be the Same what other NBA moments were like that? So this is basically the craziest. Wait, what happened? NBA moments this century. And I'm going to offer you the Luca trade. BM83 and the Artest Melee I think are unassessed. It's almost like a three person Mount Rushmore. I think that's really it. I think those are the three where the reaction was the same. Like thinking it was a joke.
- [48:28]
B
Yeah.
- [48:30]
A
Wait, what? The Pistons went. The Pacers went in the stands. What happened? I think those are the three. And I don't think there's a fourth one.
- [48:37]
B
The Pistons and the BAM one make particular sense because it's like they're just happening in front of you. And so there's kind of not a way you can challenge the reality of that situation. Part of the Luke experience, as we've all talked about, was that initial wave of like this can't be right. Right. Like we couldn't wrap our heads around it to a degree that it seemed like it had to be made up. The only other trade, honestly that I remember having anything resembling that level of reaction to was when Allen Iverson got traded to the Nuggets. And it was just like this feels so wrong on a fundamental level that they like SportsCenter must be wrong like that they must be misinformed about what has happened here. But that doesn't compare to the LUCA trade.
- [49:16]
A
That doesn't matter. And he was in the trade rumors and like we had no idea what was coming. The only. It's a smaller one, but I remember where it was when it happened. It was a Friday afternoon, two days before the Patriots lost to the Giants in the super bowl. And I was in Arizona with my dad. We were having a drink outdoors and all of a sudden on the ticker it flashed that the Lakers had acquired Pau Gasol from Memphis for Kwame Brown and Crittenden and a number one pick and POW's then pretty fat brother and turned out to be the gem of the trade. And we were just like what else was in the trade? And we're just watching the ticker and then the ticker would come. And this was pre. Being able to find out stuff on your. Some texting people on my BlackBerry. It's like there had to be more in the trade, right? And there just was nothing. And that was the trade.
- [50:09]
B
Well, I think you've backdoored us into maybe the only other candidate which is the Chris Paul to the Lakers trade getting canceled by David Stern.
- [50:17]
A
That's the fourth one you're Right. We got to. I wrote back to back columns, back to back days for Grant 1 about that. You're right. The canceled trade is the fourth one.
- [50:25]
B
Truly trippy stuff.
- [50:27]
A
See Rob Mahoney. That's why you're the best. Two more and then we're done. These are both LeBron related. We're doing great time. We got Tate and Kyle coming in one second. Ben Mao wants to know he's a conspiracy theory for us. LeBron is behind the let's shorten the season push because if it's successful, his records will never be broken.
- [50:46]
B
Wow.
- [50:47]
A
I'll forever be in the MJ camp, but if I found out LeBron was making this push, it would cement him as the greatest strategist chess player of all time and could be a new category in the goat debate. He's definitely not pushing for this because I felt this way for a while and so some others, but I loved it. That'd be amazing if he was like. If he was like working behind the scenes for a 70 game season, because that'd be it. He would own every record forever.
- [51:10]
B
How did Michael Jordan not do this? Like someone with a true burn it all down mentality. Like, I think LeBron, actually, I think he does, like, care to a degree about being a caretaker of the sport, but like a real gunner, like a real ruthless, like, ruthless competitor who would want to hold on to all that stuff for their whole lives. I could actually see it.
- [51:28]
A
Yeah. That's a Michael Corleone godfather to move.
- [51:32]
C
Yeah.
- [51:33]
A
Okay, last question from Edward Bender. You've Talked recently about LeBron's destination next season, mentioned Golden State as a likely landing spot. I still like that one, by the way. You've also talked about this being the final year of Steve Kerr's contract with the Warriors. What If Lacop hired LeBron to be the player coach for the Warriors, a la Bill Russell with the Celtics in the last three years? By the way, I think player coaches are illegal, but hold that to the side for a second. It would bring a ton of attention to the team. LeBron's a basketball genius. We haven't had a viable player coach really since Russell. For LeBron, it would be another legacy burnishing achievement. I'm not a salary cap expert, but maybe there would be some salary cap stuff that would help. To me, Steph is the biggest hurdle. Who says no? Would Steph want to do this? I got really excited about this idea. This really would be like if you're in a lifelong eternal battle with basically Jordan and Russell and Kareem for who's the best player of all time. LeBron's at the point he needs to start adding stuff to the arsenal. Russell has this amazing player coach thing that he did the last three years. He won two titles playing 48 minutes a game. And coaching, which really should be mentioned, I think, even more prominently when people talk about him. LeBron just doing that and doing a good job with the Warriors. It would not flip it, but it would. I don't know, tweak it a little bit. Right.
- [52:54]
B
If LeBron won one more title and one player coach, and let's. Let's throw Coach of the Year in there. Because if. Obviously, if they win, I think he'd win Coach of the Year, too. Would that make him the goat if he won one more with an active Coach of the year, as you're saying, a really singular achievement that is technically not legal. But if anyone was going to make it legal, if LeBron went to Adam Silver and said, I really want to be a player coach for my final NBA season, Change your rules, I think they would just change it. I really do.
- [53:22]
A
I think they would, too. He could coach Draymond, right? Draymond's the one. He's the one person Draymond seems to have real reverence for. Him and Steph together. Maybe you get Jimmy Butler coming back. Maybe you get one more old guy. You're basically like. You're the Expendables. Yeah. It's like this Last Alone movie. You're like, guys. It's just. It's the old guys. We were going to make a run here, and I'm going to coach the team.
- [53:43]
B
Al Horford suiting up for the second half of the season. Ready to roll it back out? Let's do it.
- [53:47]
A
I got genuinely excited about this. I don't know if you'd want to do it. And then I was trying to think, how could somebody. Could we have a player coach? Not the way people coach games now, right? In the NBA like Missoula's, like, people like that. These guys are maniacs. But maybe the zag is we're spending too much time trying to coach. Let's go back to the basics. Roll it out, simplify. Let's not overthink this. Yeah, we have some great offensive players on our team. I don't know. I got excited about it.
- [54:15]
B
I think the more we talk about it, the more I really want it to happen, and it absolutely won't. And so thank you for cratering my hopes and dreams in real time on this pod.
- [54:22]
A
By the way, to circle back to an earlier question, this would be the fifth holy shit moment of the century, wouldn't it? Like, it comes out, LeBron is going to be the new player coach of the Golden State Warriors. Be like, what? That would be.
- [54:34]
B
So here's my question. If the Lakers, you know, say it didn't go well, LeBron is the players coach. They decide to have a players only meeting. Is LeBron invited to the players only meeting?
- [54:43]
A
Great question. He's not.
- [54:44]
B
It's tough. It's tough to not be one of
- [54:46]
A
the guys anymore, but he'd have Draymond in there telling him everything that happened in the meeting, so it'd be fine. All right, Rob Mahoney, you can listen to him tomorrow on the Ringer NBA show, which is also on Netflix, by the way. You're taping tomorrow morning. And you're also on the Prestige TV podcast. And I'll see you in the rewatchables in a couple days.
- [55:01]
B
Sounds good, Bill. Thanks so much.
- [55:02]
A
Thanks, Rob. We're gonna take a break. Come back with Tate and Kyle. This episode of the Bill Simmons podcast is presented by Sam's Club. It is that time of the year when you just gotta get in your car and go somewhere. I've done that plenty of times in my life. Nowhere gets you ready to go quite like Sam's Club. Snacks, the gear, super low prices on gas. They got a bunch of stuff that keep you and the whole crew rolling. And here's what you gotta do. You gotta join the club of yes. End@samsclub.com yes and you must be 18 years or older to purchase a membership. A membership is subject to qualifications. Visit samsclub.com yesend for details. This episode is brought to you by Venmo. Supporting your team never gets old, but here's something new. You can now pay for your game day wings and rep your team at the same time. How? By getting your college colors on your card. Score more with the college branded Venmo debit card. Get up to 5% cash back with Venmo Stash. Sign up@venmo.com collegecard the Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank NA Select Schools available Venmo slash bundle. Terms and exclusions apply at Venmo me stash terms max $100 cash back per month. All right, tape Frazier J. Kyle, man, they are here to talk March Madness with us. They just sent me the brackets because I was in the mailbag with Rob and I couldn't see and my Guy Acuff is in the fourth spot in the west with number one Arizona. I'm just furious. I'm so upset. Why can't they give us good things? Why couldn't they have paved the way for some sort of run? This is terrible. Kyle.
- [56:43]
C
This is the wrong attitude, Bill. If you're going to be on this island, this is an opportunity for Darius to just do some scorched earth and establish and plant a flag, man. We're not afraid. We don't run.
- [56:53]
A
Let's do this. But I have the other flag for Burris. Potentially being the number five pick from Arizona.
- [57:00]
B
I'm.
- [57:01]
A
These are competing corners. I don't have enough flags.
- [57:03]
D
Tate, maybe winner gets the number five pick. Maybe that's the way that you look at it. Sweet 16, whoever wins, that's the number five pick.
- [57:09]
A
That's great. So before we get to some of the madness stuff, Tate, who is the biggest winner this weekend? Player or team for you?
- [57:16]
D
I think Arizona is the biggest winner because Arizona did not get the number one overall seed. But if you look at the bracket, the east is just kind of a gauntlet there for Duke. I mean, they have to basically deal with Dan Hurley potentially as their number two seed. Obviously, that's turned into a bit of a rivalry. They both try to claim Madison Square Garden. They also got Rick Pitino and the Johnny's sitting there as a five seed.
- [57:35]
C
That's a tough five seed.
- [57:37]
D
They got Tom Izzo in Michigan State staring them down as well. So they just have a lot of tough teams in. It's the blue blood bracket there in the East. So that's a tough draw for Duke. And if you look at Arizona, they got a pretty clear path, and we might have a situation where if Arizona, Gonzaga end up in the Elite Eight, we get the master versus the protege. Protege there with Tommy Lloyd versus Mark Fuse. So. So pretty good matchup there for Gonzaga and a pretty good spot for Arizona as well.
- [58:03]
A
What do you have, Kyle? Same winner or somebody else?
- [58:06]
C
Yeah, I mean, I agree with Tate. I mean, the most interesting thing here from the draft standpoint is we have, you know, your eyeballs go immediately to the potential Kansas Duke thing. I mean, Peterson comes out, and if Peterson goes on. Speaking of scorched earth and making tournament statements going into the draft, I mean, if Peterson comes back and, you know, plays really well in that matchup. A big thing for Duke we should mention is, you know, they're down Caleb Foster. Tate seems to have some optimism. They're gonna have to win Tate to get him back. I mean, you know, they're gonna have to be in the tournament. And then, you know, Patrick Ngangba, who's a big guy for them, who's good. We'll see if he's back and ready to go. So pretty, pretty testing, challenging bracket for them, even though they, you know, they won the acc, but it's, it's a challenging pod for them for sure.
- [58:48]
A
All right, enough madness talk. No, just kidding. But I do want to talk to Acuff because can we just get a cup out of the way now?
- [58:55]
D
Can we give you some credit, Bill? You've been watching a lot of college basketball. You've been texting us during champ week. So I just wanted to put that out. People that if anyone disrespected you, you are watching the game. So salute to you.
- [59:05]
A
Yeah, I mean, one huge. So I watched, I watched all week, but then yesterday I thought I was going to be missing stuff because I was supposed to hang out with my wife randomly not feeling well. So I'm like, how about this? Why don't we watch something on the, you know, the three TVs. Give me the two on the left and you could just watch whatever you want and we'll just hang out all day and with the dogs and it'll be great. And I watched an insane amount of basketball, but I saw every Arkansas game. Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Acuff, his best game was today because he wasn't really that good yesterday. But you know, playing these three 40 minute games back to back to back, Friday, Saturday, Sunday is pretty brutal, you know, especially you're trying to play for. So I got a little worried yesterday with him today. I'm willing to say it. I don't know if anyone else has pointed their flag on this. He's starting to look a little Kyrie ish to me and I know that's sacrilege. Kyrie is like the one of one, One of the most skilled guards we've ever had. Ambidextrous, incredible finisher. Just like the guy you would create in a lab. There's stuff Acuff does Tate that just makes me think of Kyrie as I'm watching him. Is that crazy?
- [60:12]
D
No, I don't think it's crazy. I saw a lot of people talking about Allen Iverson. Right? I mean, you got like the Baron Davis comp. I mean, obviously not as explosive. Steve Francis. Also, like, there's a lot of guards in the early 2000s that I feel like come to mind. Some of the smaller guards. Guards. But as Far as being a chameleon, I feel like that's what Acuff is in a game. He can be an engine for you, he can be a creator for you, he can be a spot up shooter for you. And offensively, he just put on a master class. I think the real thing and the real knock for Acuff, and I'm sure Kyle will talk about this as well, is defensively. There was a couple times where he had the Matador defense, where Duke Miles, he's just like, yeah, you go ahead and score so I can get the ball back. I think that's. Get out of your way. Yeah, that's fair to bring up. But. But as far as if you just watch him on the offensive end, it's incredible to watch. And for Calipari, of all people, and obviously he champions his guys quite a bit, but he's been pretty fair in the sense that like he is in a top tier of the group of guards that he's had. And that's saying a lot when you go through all those guards. Jamal Murray, sga, John Wall, Derrick Rose, the list goes on. So for him to be in that conversation says a lot about Acuff. And if you watch him, it's just incredible to watch. And you mentioned his fatigue. I mean, he really wasn't tired at all. He just kept going and going and he was great down the stretch.
- [61:18]
A
You know, Kyle, one of the things with him, the reason I kept thinking of the Kyrie thing, is he really can run a team, but then also be the scorer, but then go back to running the team. And he's like an old school point guard where we talk a lot with the NBA guys like that. The guard position is just kind of, kind of melted away. I look at somebody like Darius Garland, it's like that's kind of the old, old school point guard that I grew up with. And we just don't have a lot of these anymore. And if anything there's more like zero guards and more like the Russell Westbrook types. Acuff's like an old school. I can either set guys up or I can get my own thing. And I think he can finish in traffic. The defense is obviously not awesome, but you know, it's not like Kyrie was an incredible defender. But I. The question for me is the size and do. Are we just moving into this world with OKC and San Antonio and the Celtics where everybody just wants bigger guards and that's why he's going to fall back?
- [62:14]
C
Yeah, I mean, you hit it when we were talking about him this, this weekend. It's kind of like you can love a player and then, but you have to run it through that, that test, that gauntlet, that prism of like, are they going to be able to play San Antonio and okc, both of these teams, I mean even you go into like the Pistons, a lot of these, the Celtics, these teams have big physical, switchy defenders at the, in the, in the backcourt. And it's tough, it's a tough time. You know, the thing for me is I hear you hear a lot of comps. When I watch Acuff. When I initially watched him, my first thought was just like you could tell this guy has old point guards in his life because he just has like Kyrie. He just has this, this sanity and this, this sense for. He sees levers within the game that other players don't see. I've noticed like he can see like the defense is doing this. If I do this, if I do this action, he'll tell us. He's pointing all the time. And Tate and I have talked about this a lot. I mean this Arkans, I, I do not know where they would be without him. He is like the smartest player on their team obviously, but he just kind of directs traffic. They were one of the best transition teams and most efficient and prolific in the country. And a lot of that is because of him. He hits it ahead just relentlessly. He never ever leaves that on the table for the comps though. Getting to that, I mean, I really don't see the Derrick Rose, Iverson incendiary speed type guys for him. I see a cerebral game manager in the vein of a CP3. Except for I just don't know. See, yeah, he's somebody. The defense, the defense, it reminds me when I see him do those matador plays, it reminds me of my high school coach. Just burned into my brain because I was an awful defender. Big shock at my build, but I could just hear him going, oh Lake man, olay. And that's what I think of whenever I watch Darius Eiko. But man, he carried one of the biggest usage rates in the country and was just like zero waste, you know, that's just how smart he is. Knew when to pick his spots. And yeah, he absolutely showed out today.
- [64:05]
A
Yeah, there's some Kyrie, some CP3. I like, like some of the best parts of those guys I've heard.
- [64:10]
C
Darren Williams, yeah, I like that he
- [64:13]
A
gets stats as dumb as that sounds. These are 40 minute games and you're just like, yeah, here's I put up 32 and 11 today. Like that's not nothing in the, you know, and even though we have the three point shot, little pace, stuff like that. But him versus Fleming, Fleming's tape, the Houston guard who has been in the number five spot for the last two months. And I don't see it. I don't understand if you're going to just go those two guys again, there's another guy I could see in that spot that we've, we were texting about today. But I don't see the Flemings versus him with the advantage going to Fleming. So where do you stand on that?
- [64:49]
D
I love Flemings, I love his game. But I think, you know, it's tough when you have the smaller guards and I think there's kind of a group of four, right? Burries is in that group. Mikel Brown. Mikel Brown is in that group. Bruce Pro just called him Markel Brown on the broadcast, so maybe that's his new nickname. Bruce's accuracy was all over the place. Bill, you missed it. Bruce was on fire today. He also did a nice stump speech for his son not being in the tournament and tried to call out the committee chair. He's becoming quickly the Bronnie James of coaching Stephen Pearl. It's not his fault.
- [65:18]
C
Can you imagine if Ben was coaching a college team and didn't get in the tournament? Can you imagine what Bill would be like?
- [65:26]
A
But Bruce Pearl's pretty. I mean, his approval rating is pretty low at this point, isn't it?
- [65:31]
B
It's.
- [65:32]
C
It's dubious. Yeah.
- [65:33]
A
Yeah.
- [65:34]
D
It depends on the camp you talk to. You know what I mean? Like he could be very gregarious, but. But back to Flemings, I mean, I'm a fan of Flemings. He has the scoring prowess. There's a times where he has the defensive lapses as well. I think it's great that he plays for coach Sampson. I think Kelvin Sampson's done a really good job of getting him to learn how to play team defense. That's something that will translate. His own ball pressure has gotten better as the year has kind of waned on. But when you look at him versus Akov, I mean there's games that you can point to, but Akov hasn't had less than 17 points this season if you go all the way back through his game. So like even when he doesn't play great, he still gets the bottom line number of points. And I think there's some games where Flemings even. He said it in the championship game against Arizona. Him And Sak didn't quite show up. So there's some times he has. That he can be a little Houdini. So I understand why Acuff has kind of jumped him in the general consciousness right now.
- [66:21]
A
Well, and you have, you have the Arizona guard and then you have Kyle's guy who if you just go and you watch the YouTube clip of his 45 point game against some crap team where they're up 30, but it's like he's just looks like the all time most NBA playerish guy out of all these guys. I don't know. I think it's going to bounce around. Do you think, Kyle, that the March Madness, like the next two weeks is going to affect the draft possibilities with these guys at all? Because I feel like I don't say this every year, but I think this year I think it could swing some stuff.
- [66:52]
C
Yeah. I mean, if you just look at the, the order. I mean this, it's. I don't think Kingston is as solid at four or five as he's been in a while. I think it's kind of come into question lately and I think the burry's conversation like we were talking about and we can get into him in more detail. I, I think. And then, you know, Mikel actually started higher in the year and he kind of got dinged as it went along. But he was the five.
- [67:14]
D
Yeah. At the start of the year.
- [67:16]
C
So I think it's, it's really in flux. Like, I don't, I don't think it's really super set at all. You know, speaking of the Kingston thing. Kingston is. I like him a lot. It's just like what you were talking about. He has people swear that he's like 6 foot 4. I've never got to stand next to him. But when you look, when you look at him, you're like. Optically, it just doesn't. He's got narrow shoulders and he just seems, he seems small. But Kingston is super. He's probably the fastest player in the draft. I would say he reminds me of Maxi at times and the fact that he just blitzes, blitzes, blitzes. But he's a really good passer. I think it speaks to Kingston's, you know, character and credit though, that he came into a team that had two returning backcourt players from a team that went to the national championship game. And he came in and just kind of took over the, over the main spot there and ran that team. But he just needed to be more consistent.
- [68:03]
A
This episode is brought to you by Hotels.com Save your way is a new feature on Hotels.com and it's as simple as it sounds. When you book a trip as a Hotels.com member, you decide how to use your savings. Take the instant savings now or bank the savings as rewards for later. It's your call only at hotels.com Save youe Way is available to loyalty members in the US and UK and hotels with member prices. Other terms apply. See site for details. This episode is brought to you by Workday. Could AI help you do more of what you love like reaching bigger goals, ahead of schedule, growing careers and the bottom line? Well, Workday is the next gen ERP powered by AI that actually knows your business. Anticipating your toughest challenges and how to better solve them. Connecting more dots in your organization so your people have more time to connect what they love. It's a new workday. This episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast brought to you by Spectrum Business. Fast, reliable Internet means everything for your business and even this podcast. That's why I trust Spectrum Business. They keep companies of all sizes connected with Internet, advanced Wi, Fi, phone, TV, mobile services plus 24. 7 US based support. Millions of business owners already trust Spectrum business so visit spectrum.combusiness to learn more. Restrictions apply. Services not available in all areas. You know it's funny like watching all and I watched a lot of college this week. I thought the product was really good. College is awesome. We've had no but we've had so many years where you know, it just seems so inferior to the NBA in so many different ways. I watched like Arizona, Duke and Arkansas ironically who somehow has lost eight times. But those, those are like real teams
- [69:45]
D
with like running real offense, great action, great secondary action. Yeah. Now they have like multiple actions within one possession and a longer climb.
- [69:55]
C
It's high quality play. Yeah.
- [69:57]
A
And then Arizona basically is four first round picks and the guy who's if you didn't know anything you were like who's the best guy in this team? You would have said the point guard who is like going to be a great second round pick and I'm sure he's going to end up on Miami and he'll have like a 10 year career.
- [70:11]
C
It's always Miami. We always something deep seated about Miami.
- [70:15]
A
Can't believe it but it just felt like a more mature product this year and I don't know if it was a product of it's just like this is a fluke, awesome class or what do you think? Tate?
- [70:26]
D
Well I was going to say just kind of a mix of like the European guys who are coming in. You also have this great freshman class which is getting compared to like the 1981 class. Right. Which anytime you're talking like Mullins, Jordan, Elijah 1, I mean that's a ridiculous group to be in, you know, conversation with. And then you also add in the fact that these guys who are veterans are coming back because they're getting paid to come back. A guy like Jaden Bradley decides to come back and have more of a role after Caleb Loves goes to the NBA. So I mean you mix those three pockets together, you got a triple threat of good basketball. And also the coaches have a little bit more leeway with these guys because it is professionalized at this point. So I think you add it all together, it's been a nice mix. And I've seen some people even pointing out the fact that they've enjoyed the product so much more because a lot of people as you know, Bill, come in and March, parachute in. But it seems like the parachuters are having fun. Yeah, finally we need it.
- [71:12]
A
You know what part of this is Kyle. And the All Star game is like this too. You, you really just need guards that know what they're doing. And a lot of years with college, like even Purdue, it was so much fun. By the way that he, he is, he, their point guard is absolutely 100% ending up on like Indiana, San Antonio. I'm sure Brad Stevens is going to like try to figure out how to steal him but, but you just can tell he's going to end up on a good team. They'll be like, haha, they took him 37, they're so stupid. And then he'll have like a 12 year career. But Kyle, so many guards that kind of just know what the fuck they're doing this year, which to me seems unusual. I don't feel like that's been the case that much in college anymore.
- [71:50]
C
Yeah, especially if you look at it through the lens of the lottery. I mean we have a lot more guards. Like we've said, there's not, there aren't as many wings that are kind of being pushed up into that level. But yeah, the guard quality and to speak to the quality of college basketball, it's just, just guys are incentivized to stay. And I think something that's really helped too is you know, we do have the guards. But if you look at the top teams in the, there's a return to kind of a traditional vibe in college basketball where all the best teams are big. If you look at Michigan if you look at Florida, if you look at Duke, I mean, just down the line, these. They all have solid front courts. Some of them even. There are nights where I'm just like, God, I wonder if this team could like, kill the Wizards inside or something like Michigan on some nights. I'm just saying. Not that, of course, Bam. Proved that. That that's, you know, anything's possible. But yeah, I mean, just the, the depth of the talent, getting guys to come back, I think is kind of the driving force, in my opinion. In addition to a good class, like you mentioned Arizona, like I was mentioned, I was saying, like Karchenkov for them is like their, what, fifth dude. And I think he could play 10 years in the NBA. Like, he's a good player.
- [72:53]
A
So when we look at big picture, and I want. I want to talk about Burry's a little bit too, in a second, but when we look at big picture, because the question you guys are going to get over the next four days is, who should I pick? Who should I bet on? Who's your favorite? Who's your sleeper? So we'll go. Who do you think is actually going to win? Who would be. Who would surprise you the least if they won? Who is a Tate?
- [73:18]
D
I got to take a deep breath before I say it. Duke is an indie team. Duke is one in 2010. Duke is one in 2015. I do feel like this Duke team got a really tough draw, but I think it makes the story even better if they get out of Greenville. They lost in Greenville last time. They were the there 2017, lost to Cindarius Thornwell. You remember that South Carolina team, really tough.
- [73:37]
C
That was fun.
- [73:38]
D
Yeah, that's a. That's a place that they haven't had great history. But if they survive Greenville, they'll have, you know, obviously North Carolina fans pulling against them. They had that in the ACC tournament as well. They're both in Greenville this time. But I just feel like this Duke team, especially with Gangba being back, they need the rim protection. I think he will be back and help them with the rim protection. And Cam Boozer's never lost. Like this guy has never, ever lost in his life. And I do think that matters at some level. And even in the ACC tournament, Virginia had him on their heels. It felt like, wow, Virginia is going to win this game. And then they just found a way. And Kaden Boozer, who has stepped in for Caleb Foster, has really done a good job. And Cam was the one that got him involved in the game. You got him an Open three early. He knows where his spots are. They had this twin connection with each other. So I think like if I just open up on the day of the national championship and Duke wins and they beat Arizona in the championship game.
- [74:24]
C
Game.
- [74:24]
D
That feels like inevitable at this point, right?
- [74:28]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Taste. Just gonna.
- [74:30]
D
I'm passing out.
- [74:31]
C
Yeah.
- [74:32]
A
I was like for the brother because, you know, they. We've been. These guys have been in our life since what, seventh grade, sixth grade. And they've always been a tandem and it was always like, Cam's the better one. You know when you're like, yeah, that my brother's the better one. I'm not you always. I was kind of subconsciously root for the other one, but I thought he had some good moments. Kyle, who. Who would be the least surprising you to win the title?
- [74:54]
C
I mean, I'm leaning towards Arizona right now. We'll see if Jaden Bradley is like hobbled, but they just have everything. I mean they've got rim protection, they've got shooting, they've got experience, they've got, you know, co opied has been, you know, up and down. He's a guy that, you know, has flirt, has been in and out of the lottery. In the beginning of the year he was higher up. So he has a little bit to prove and he's a winner too. You know, that's been. That was one of the big things going into the year was who's. Who's more of a winner. Co opieder, camboozer. But to speak to what Tate's talking about with. With Duke, I think an under, you know, next factor here is, you know, yeah, Kaden is being underestimated. But defensively, man, it like the 3, 4 spot. Duke is tough. They got Dame Sar, who's a. Who's a kid who came in an international kid very, very long. Could be a high pick, end up having a surge late in the process. And then Malik Brown, very, very physical three, four guy who. Who's a great passer and really physical.
- [75:45]
B
So.
- [75:45]
C
But I'm going to pick Arizona at this point because I just think they have everything.
- [75:49]
A
I have Arizona as well. Just from what. What I really was watching this weekend. They just seem like almost like a junior NBA team to me. They had everything you want. And Burry's who I just feel, you know, he was. He had a great run in la. There's a good. There's a good. I think he won the title, but he had like a massive game in the title game. But just, you know, and it wasn't like I think he was a top 10 guy and all the lists and all that stuff. It's not like he's a surprise, but he's the guy when we're talking about the draft because there's just too many guards and not. I just don't think all these teams are going to need guards in the NBA draft. And he's the guy that I think could have a chance to go fourth or fifth because he's got more size. He's just a prototypical like two guard can swing. I could see him on all these different teams and I think there's a little extra there in the bigger games too with him. So that he's probably. He's like what, ninth on the list now? Kyle, ninth range?
- [76:47]
C
Yeah. People have had him in that like nine through or like eight through 15 range. But I, I look at him and I'm just. There are major case in Wallace 2020 like three vibes with. With this guy where same age, you know, about the same age in the process he's a little older than the other guys. I just think, I just think that there's a possibility that teams are going to be reaching for the shiny thing with going for these upside guards like the Mikels or the K, you know, Keaton Wagler shooting or Acuff. And then you've just got this. His high outcomes might not be as like tempting as some of those guys, but he's just steady and he plays for a team that's that he fit into a role and just. And he doesn't really have a big time weakness. He guards, he plays both ways. He's got good size to guard both positions. I just think that he's a winning, he's a winning player. He reminds me. It reminds me a lot of the case of Wallace thing. It really does.
- [77:37]
A
Yeah. I'm excited to see what happens with them next two weeks because I was texting you guys about how we always do this with the draft where you just rank the guys like with the potential. But when we actually get to the draft and it gets to a team like Utah is picking fifth and it's. They're just not going to want a point guard. Like they're, they're kind of committed to Kante Georgia at this point but they could really need is a two guard or a wing or you know and sometimes these guys move around. Tate, what's your biggest sleeper?
- [78:03]
D
Biggest, biggest sleeper. I mean Arkansas is definitely in the mix. I really like what a could do. I would call him a Kimba candidate. So I would throw them out there. I think Gonzaga, I would watch out for just in the west. I know that we love Arizona, but Gonzaga's fallen off like the national conversation a little bit. And this team mark few. I don't know how many more years. He has a head coach in waiting right now. And I do feel like Gonzaga has to win one championship. They've just been so due. And last time we were in Indy, we remember Gonzaga undefeated. They go there to the national championship game. They're playing Baylor. Scott Drew's Baylor team with those three guards just completely. Davion Mitchell, I mean, physically just overwhelmed them. You know, Corey Kispert and those guys. So I think they might have a little bit of redemption. So I. I am concerned about Arizona in that stretch. And also Arizona just has to get over the mental hurdle of getting there. So that's another team I would throw into the mix. And, you know, I mean, I'm going down the line. I have to bring him up because I love him so much. What if Rick Patino just did it? What if Rick Patino just knocked off Duke? He just went to the final fourth
- [79:05]
A
anniversary of his walking through the door speech around.
- [79:09]
D
I just would love that storyline. I mean, he was having a great time in the Big east tournament. They win it. He seems like he's like having the best euphoric moment of his career right now. He's kind of swooning a little bit. So I don't know. I still like the Johnny's. I do see their problems and I see their issues. And obviously they can't play as physical as they did against UConn, against a lot of teams with the officiating in the NCAA tournament. But that would be an incredible storyline if vampire Rick Pitino knocked off Duke.
- [79:34]
A
I was hoping you were going to say Pennsylvania and TJ Power. Their electric performance today. What a game. The Ivy League final. Who KN fun. He was Duke and like a pretty high recruit, right? Wasn't he like five star? Yeah.
- [79:51]
D
Went to Duke, went to Virginia. I think he scored 35 points in his career at Virginia and he had 44 today in the Ivy League final. So what a turn for him.
- [80:00]
C
Some people put it together late. I thought he was really good. I was. I was shocked by him, but he
- [80:05]
A
was a basketball game. Kyle, who's your sleeper in terms of.
- [80:09]
C
Well, I was going to tack on to what Tate was saying there. If we could get AJ Debanza versus Gonzaga, I think that could be pretty fun. If we could get, you know, an Innocente and Ty on Grant Foster. Just. That would be a really interesting statement game for them. But I. You know, I'm looking at this, and I'm just. I'm seeing. Gosh, I mean, I don't really like anybody out of the lower left side of the bracket. UConn is sitting right there. I could see them making a run in that bracket, you know, and then. But Arkansas is another team that they could lose in the second round or they can make a run to the Final Four. That team. It could go either way. So. UConn, though, is a team that Tate and I. They're kind of our zombie team. I feel like anytime you think UConn's dead, Danny Hurley's got that intensity. I think that they could make a run well.
- [80:55]
A
And they also have a guy who's going to be the lottery pick, seems like it. Who's averaging, like, 12 points a game. I don't know what's going on there.
- [81:03]
D
Braylon.
- [81:04]
B
Yeah.
- [81:04]
A
Do you like Braylon Moore?
- [81:05]
D
Yeah. Good shooter. I think that it would be really good for him to come back for another year. I don't know how Kyle feels about that. I just think he's kind of been projected in this lottery space. But if Braylon Mullins was given the keys of the offense, he had a full, healthy year. I think we'd see him completely unlock Eric Riba, who's another guy that he came in with. I think those two guys playing together, that would be a lot of fun for Hurley. And we forget. I mean, last year, UConn should have. I mean, not should have, but they could have easily beat Florida this close, very close to beating Florida, and they dominated the tournament two years in a row. So Dan Hurley and his offense has been tough to stop for anybody, especially game planning for UConn. It's one thing for the first game. It's for the. The second game. And once you get into the tournament, when you have to scout this team, it's really tough. Their actions are layered. We've talked about that a lot, Kyle and I just how. How good of stuff that they run. Luke Murray, shout out to him for putting some of that stuff together. So I just think UConn's gonna be a tough out for anybody. And Dan Hurley has a chip on his shoulder, and anytime he does, he leads the country, and he's going to get teed up or do something insane, which is also great. That's why Fran McCaffrey being in the tournament is awesome. Patino like, we have a lot of good characters for the coach. Are you raising your voice at me? Greatest press conference moment of the year.
- [82:16]
A
We do have, it seems like a higher concentration of crazy coaches than we've had in a while. Or like, character coaches. Like, what kind of what we had in the 80s. Yeah. When I think of like, like the amount of, like, good teams, we have interesting teams, guys who could just take over a game, you know, and put up like 30, 33, 35 upset potential. We didn't really talk about the Darren Peterson X factor part of this, too. What happens if he's just fucking awesome in these playoffs? What happens if he looks like young Kobe all of a sudden for two weeks? Because there's been sign. Kyle, I know you've been monitoring. There's been signs. It's better than it was, right?
- [82:58]
D
Yeah.
- [82:59]
C
I mean, he's.
- [82:59]
B
He's.
- [83:00]
C
It's been up and down all year. He's been slowly kind of trying to acclimate. I really think, you know, if you circling back here, I mean, Kansas is also another sleeper there. Their highs have been very, very high. I mean, they beat. They beat Arizona when they were humming. I mean, they kind of owned them. I mean, they. They've had some. They can beat anybody. They've also, you know, their motivation and their consistency has been up and down. But they could get hot, Tate. I mean, you could see this. I mean, also, could this be the Bill Self? There's. There are whispers of that be the. The Bill Sell swan song. He could have that in the air. Just, you know, go out there, do one for the Gipper. One last one. I can see them making a run. Yeah.
- [83:34]
A
So scared to be deprived of his great coaching if he decides to leave. That'll be the.
- [83:38]
C
I wanted you to let this one fly. Go ahead. Go ahead.
- [83:41]
A
I really miss his chess master routine. What do you think, Kate?
- [83:45]
D
Yeah, I mean, I like this five. I like their five. I worry about their death, like when they have to lean on El Marco Jackson. You saw that when they bench Bryson Tiller and they had to kind of go away from their starting five because, you know, Bill Self was trying to send a message to Tiller, I guess in the Big 12 tournament. Maybe that was a lesson learned. But Council's a guy who's getting. Who can get really hot. We saw him against NC State this year. He hit, like, from what I remember, like ten threes, maybe more. It was just a ridiculous performance. So when you have counsel there. Darren Peterson seems to be loved by his teammates. There was A little bit of a strange period there, but he's won him back over, you know, like, I think he won him back, which is good. And then Trey White's like the perfect X factor in the NCAA tournament. Does all the dirty work, can hit big shots for you. And then you got Badunga, who's one of the best rim protectors in college basketball. So, I mean, they kind of check all the boxes. I just worry about their depth. If you get Badoonga in foul trouble, that's kind of the recipe to beat them.
- [84:35]
A
Yeah, I asked you guys about him like a month ago because I was like, this is just a classic. He's going to be the 47th pick in the draft and end up on some team playing 25 minutes a game. Like, what happened? Oh, he was two inches too short. So 30 teams in a row passed on him. I think there's so many fun subplots this year and there's so many good ways this could go. So I'm not going to get my hopes up too much, but Louisville, I think has my. Not Louisville, Arkansas, I think has my heart this year. I think I've watched them the most. I'm the most intrigued by them.
- [85:07]
D
You love Cal. You're just a cow guy.
- [85:09]
A
I do. And I know it's looming and I know the Cal crazy collapse when he gets too tense and that he'll probably screw this second half up or one of these games. But I honestly think, talent wise, I think they can hang with any of these teams and they have a guy who will be completely unafraid on the biggest stage to. To do his thing. So he's one. I think Peterson qualifies for that, too. AJ is going to be a fucking maniac. Right? Like, he'll just be.
- [85:40]
B
I don't know.
- [85:40]
C
Or he could go 40.
- [85:43]
A
Yeah, he's going to be like, he's going to have seven coffees face.
- [85:47]
C
Not allowed, I don't think, in the BYU honor code.
- [85:50]
D
But yeah, he's just drinking sodas. Dirty sodas.
- [85:54]
C
Dirty sodas. Yeah.
- [85:55]
A
Well, then. And always fun to root against Duke, too, even though I kind of like the Boozer twins. So it's fun to.
- [86:01]
D
They're a likable duo. You know what I mean? Like, I can't even hate these guys. And defensively they play such great defense as a team. That's really the reason why you believe in Duke. I mean, we can talk about, you know, Cam Boozer and everything else, but defensively they're so good. And when they have Gongborough they really have no weakness because of Malik Brown and Dame Sar. Like the ball pressure from Saar, the deflections from Malik Brown, and then if they don't get it done, they have gongbo on the back end. So it's three levels of defense, which is tough to beat.
- [86:25]
C
I just like that I don't have to take it personally anymore when you. When you're ragging on Caliperi. I used to just have to eat that forever. I'd just be like, God, Bill hasn't discovered Mark Pope yet, so that'll be a new misery for me.
- [86:37]
D
I was gonna say Kyle. We're not even like on the map anymore. North Carolina,
- [86:44]
C
a very low time, Bill. It's a surprise that we're even in good spirits.
- [86:48]
A
Well, I mean, the Caleb Wilson thing was. Yeah, that was devastating. I thought he. For some reason I thought he was
- [86:55]
C
going to come back.
- [86:55]
D
And it's just apparently he was coming back. He got her ramping up to come back, which is even sadder.
- [87:01]
C
You know what I mean?
- [87:01]
D
I got a text on the Wednesday. They were like, yeah, Caleb's getting ready for Duke on Saturday. I'm getting fired up. I'm texting my parents. I'm like, caleb's coming back for Saturday. Get fired up. Then Thursday, I got like a sad face text and I'm like, oh, no. What is it? What does sad face mean? He's not going to play on Saturday. It's like, no, he broke his thumb, on the other hand, and he's out for the season. So you had this.
- [87:21]
A
This completely lovable, awesome top four lottery pick who probably would have gotten better than it mattered. And you don't even get to root for him one time when it actually matters. And he's going to go to the NBA now. Yeah, kind of sucks. That's the rub with college. This episode is brought to you by Domino's Best deal ever. They wanted me to be a pizza gm. They wanted me to assemble my perfect pizza lineup. I could go up to seven toppings or I could do a five topping rotation. They wanted me to tie it in a basketball. Obviously, this is right at my wheelhouse. Number one topping, extra cheese. Well done. That's yokage. It's just you can throw it on any team, any situation. It's going to make the pizza better. Pepperoni is wemby. Mushroom sga. You know, just does the job. You're not going to be telling your grandkids about it, but it's putting up 32 a night and then ham and pineapple. I'm putting those two together. That's Cade Cunningham and J and Duran the center. They kind of need each other. Same thing with the ham and pineapple. I don't want those things separately. I want them together. Well, here's the good news. I can get all of these for 9.99 with Domino's. Best deal ever. I could just throw all of those toppings at one pizza, any topping, plus the pizza for 9.99 with Domino's. Best deal ever. Price is higher in some locations. Select this online only offer from 2. 23 until 4. 6 size. Availability varies by crust type. Maximum 7 toppings, 6 for New York style and pan crust. Stuffed crust is extra. Excludes XL and specialty pizzas. Minimum purchase required for delivery prices, participation, delivery area and charges may vary. This episode is brought to you by Brooks Running. Sometimes in the sports world we see performances so mind blowing, you think someone somewhere is bending the rules. Like when an unknown player comes out of nowhere and tears through the league with a dominant scoring streak. Well, the Glycerin Flex from Brooks is that phenomenon in shoe form. It provides a flexible cushion rod that's made to move with you. With a breathable upper, your shoe feels like a distraction free second seat skin. It's the ultimate blend between human movement and tech. So if you want to feel the best parts of your run flex the rules, then the new Glycerin Flex shop, the glycerin flex@brooksrunning.com I was thinking, by the way, I had this idea for college, no nil money for the first two years. That would be my nil fix it for two years. Third year, lots of nil money. So we get a little more stability with the jumping around. People probably hate that idea. But I was wondering, like, what if you're just a student, a real student athlete for the first two years, then year three, you can cash in.
- [89:58]
D
I mean, it would be fascinating if you put it in a trust too. Like what if you just had the money sitting in a trust?
- [90:03]
C
That's that would be a reason.
- [90:05]
D
And you couldn't touch it until if you were in the third year, then you could touch it, do whatever you want with it. But for the two years it just accrues. Interesting. And it's sitting there. You kind of know what's going on.
- [90:14]
A
Yeah, you have to third year to have it.
- [90:16]
D
Well, you still get it. You still get it regardless. You know what I mean? I guess you can still get it regardless if you go to the NBA. But if you Come back for the third year, then you just get the money, and then you can do whatever you want with it.
- [90:25]
A
I like that. All right, so Acuff is my guy for the tournament. Who's your guy? Kyle? Man.
- [90:29]
C
Oh, Lord. Let's see if you have a guy.
- [90:32]
A
Have you officially adopted someone yet?
- [90:34]
C
Oh, geez. I mean, I have a lot of guys. I have a lot of guys that I love to watch.
- [90:38]
A
You have to pick one. You're not going to list that seven. Pick one. Who has your. Who's your guy? Pick a guy.
- [90:45]
C
I love LeBaron. File on. I mean, he's been one of my favorite players. He's probably going to be a late. A late lottery pick for Alabama. But Phylon and Acuff have kind of. You know, he's.
- [90:55]
D
He's really.
- [90:56]
C
He's got kind of Mike Conley vibes. He's. He's a really toughest, kind of. Just a wiry kind of guard, but he can shoot the ball. He's wiggly, you know, he's competitive, he's smart. He's one of my favorite players.
- [91:07]
A
I'll tell you this because the draft's going to be stupid this year because there's too many point guards and not enough teams that need point guards. One of these guys is going to fall to, like, the 17th, 18th pick, and it's going to immediately be a godsend. Some team that's actually like a playoff team, you know, Like, I'm trying to think who would be like, seventh, like Charlotte, like, they have the 17th pick and it's like, oh, we'll take him. So there's just too many people at that position anyway. All right, Tate, who has your heart?
- [91:35]
D
I'm going to go with Keaton Wagler for Illinois, and this is a team. I just keep going back to Illinois and Wagner. I got to see him in person out here at the UCLA game. I just love the way he plays. I love the way he passes. He has shown some signs when teams get physical that he doesn't play so well, and I can relate to that. You know, when there was a lot of ball pressure, I'm just like, this is not how I want to play. I'm like Devin Booker when he got double teamed. I'm like, we're doing double teams. Like, what are we doing? Yeah, that's Keaton Wagler's M.O. and I just like the way he plays. This Illinois offense is one of the best offenses in the country and one of the best offenses all time. On Kim Pom So like, when they get going, they're a lot of fun. Fun. Love, Brad Underwood. I am worried about their draw because they got TJ Power in the first round and probably VCU in the second round after they upset Carolina. So that could be tough for Illinois. But I, I buy into this team and I buy into Wagner, so that, that'll be my guy.
- [92:21]
C
Yours is Nate Amit, right?
- [92:22]
A
Bill?
- [92:22]
C
Right. That's your guy, right?
- [92:24]
A
Yeah. I don't, I don't want to be mean with college players, but that's the only one. There's. There's 10 guys and then there's a drop off. So I've done all my work on the 10 guys and the Amen's the only one. I don't get it. He was the fourth ranked recruit, but I've just been there with these really tall ball handler, kind of not strong guys. We've failed with these guys as high lottery picks for 45 years. So maybe he'll convince me otherwise.
- [92:50]
D
He's gotten stronger, at least because of Tennessee and the way they play. He's had to get stronger, so he's gotten a little bit more physical. But I'm with you. His balance is so bad. I kind of go back to balance. He feels like he falls down a lot and gets pushed around a lot, which is nice.
- [93:03]
A
It's like what I texted you guys. I'm watching all these guys as I think about them, like projecting them. And I'm watching these games. I'm having a good time, but I'm also like in the back of my head, what is this guy going to be like as a pro? And you just have to think about them going against OKC in San Antonio, in Boston and all of these 6, 7, 68 wings and Kayson Wallace and Derrick White and Hugo Gonzalez and just on and on that and then Wemby waiting for you in the paint. And, and if in my head it seems inconceivable that you could handle that kind of level of basketball, it'd be really tough for me to take you with the top 10 picks. So, you know, we'll see with, with Amen. But there was a little Brad Sellers.
- [93:42]
B
Oh, wow.
- [93:43]
A
I'm going way back. John Bender, like we've seen these guys.
- [93:49]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [93:50]
A
There's been the tall skinny guys that are face up guys and they make me nervous. The Illinois kid, though, the fact that he wasn't a top hundred high school recruit and he had a chance to be a seven, basically a top seven pick, I think that's like, the craziest story I can remember in a while. Kyle, when's the last time that's happened? Somebody's went from, like, off the map to top 7 lottery pick in a year.
- [94:15]
C
I can't think of a specific name off top of my head, but I've talked to a lot of people. Kingston had a similar thing going on where he was a PUMA circuit guy, if I'm not mistaken. And there's an interesting inefficiency that comes down to, is there just video access to these guys? Because puma's video access to access just wasn't very good, and Kingston suffered because of that. And Keaton came from, like, an independent grassroots team, if I'm not mistaken.
- [94:38]
D
So he just got played for his high school team.
- [94:40]
C
Another guy, Bennett Stur, who might end up being a lottery pick for Iowa, was a kid who was just like, I don't care about being on a big grassroots team. He was like, and he's awesome. And he ended up at, like, D2. And he says, kicked ass every level. There's some of these guys that just don't care. And then when they get to the level, they. They shine. They don't play the game, but it happens more than you would think.
- [94:58]
D
One guy I can think of recently is Cedric Coward. You know, Cedric Coward was completely off the beat, and then he just kind of came out of nowhere.
- [95:05]
C
So he.
- [95:05]
B
He.
- [95:05]
D
And he just knows how to play basketball, which I feel like Wagler checks that box. And Underwood had never seen him play. He just saw video of him passing and was like, I like this kid. And that's how he ended up at Illinois, which is also insane.
- [95:16]
A
I mean, but at least Coward was in college for a couple years, right?
- [95:20]
D
Yeah.
- [95:20]
A
This guy's 12 in 12 months. Has completely changed his thing. It's pretty cool. Tate. Odds on LeBron going to one of these Arizona tournament games, minus 2.
- [95:31]
D
50 if it's.
- [95:32]
A
If they make.
- [95:33]
D
If they make it to the regional final, he's definitely there. You know, I see Gonzaga, Arizona. LeBron's there. All the Arizona fans are like, this is our time. And then Mark Few somehow wins this game. And then Arizona fans are like, I blame LeBron, you know, like the banker at somebody.
- [95:48]
C
Not a peep about Brown.
- [95:49]
A
Nice.
- [95:49]
C
I mean, isn't it.
- [95:50]
D
Isn't it crazy?
- [95:51]
A
It's like, right?
- [95:53]
C
Is it? Well, is it? Yeah. Well, just him being in the college experience. Yeah, we haven't heard any. No LeBron sniffing. Nothing.
- [95:59]
D
Yeah, just he took his warmup ball for the picture. What do you guys think about that? Like they won the championship and then he took his warm off for the warmup off for the picture because if he looks down 10 years, they're like he definitely played his warmups off kind of smart.
- [96:11]
A
You got to keep the warmup on. If you didn't play, maybe next year
- [96:14]
C
will be the circus. We'll see.
- [96:16]
A
All right, so will you guys come back on a week from Tuesday from my pod then to we can dive back into what happened that first weekend. And then Tate's obviously gonna be on ringer gambling. The. The tailgate, the award winning ringer tailgate show. He's going to do some college troops as well. Kyle's going to be on Ringer NBA talking about this stuff. And when does our first mock draft go up for. For the ringer? When are we doing that?
- [96:40]
C
We're finishing it up right now. We're getting all our profiles put together. So we're going to have a lot to read and a lot to digest coming real soon.
- [96:46]
A
Can't wait. All right, thank you, Kyle. Thank you, Tate. Thanks to Gahal and Eduardo as well. Don't forget, rewatchable's coming tomorrow, putting up a little bit earlier for CR month. I know you guys have been enthralled by CR month, but we have to live and die in LA coming tomorrow and I will see in this podcast on Tuesday. Thanks everybody. Must be 21 plus on President select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 on President in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Game problem, call 1-800-Gambler 1-800-My reset call 888-797-777 or visit ccpg.orgchattin or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit Gambling Helpline ma.org or call 800-327-550 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 877-8-Hope NY or text hopeny in New York. For Louisiana, call 877-770-7867. Monster Energy. Everybody knows White Monster, Zero Ultra. That's the OG.
- [98:04]
D
It kicked off this whole Zero Sugar
- [98:06]
A
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- [98:28]
C
Shot clocks, big shots, upsets, aces, TGL playoffs are here. First. First Atlanta Drive starts their repeat run against Los Angeles Golf Club. Then Rory's Boston Common Golf and Tigers Jupiter Links face off in their playoff debuts. Who will advance? Keep up its playoffs? Tune in Tuesday, March 17, at 6:30pm and 9pM only on ESPN, and the ESPN applied.