A Seahawks-Rams WTF Classic, an NBA Six-Pack, and Week 16 NFL Picks With Peter Schrager

Summary

The Bill Simmons Podcast (Dec 19, 2025)

Episode: A Seahawks-Rams WTF Classic, an NBA Six-Pack, and Week 16 NFL Picks With Peter Schrager
Host: Bill Simmons
Guest: Peter Schrager

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Overview

This episode features Bill Simmons and NFL Network’s Peter Schrager for a lively, post-midnight breakdown of a wild Seahawks-Rams Thursday Night Football game, a rapid-fire NBA “Six Pack,” and in-depth Week 16 NFL picks. The podcast runs with high energy, oscillating between disbelief at the NFL chaos, insider football observations, sports therapy, and sidewinding NBA trade pontification. If you love stories, stats, and unfiltered reactions, this episode is a must.

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Seahawks–Rams: The Thursday Night Classic (00:57–24:41)

Immediate Reactions

• Historic Game: Bill and Peter call it, “the most dramatic, probably important Thursday night game of this decade” [01:07]. The Seahawks win in OT on a wild two-point play.
• Exhaustion & Shock: Schrager stays up late on the East Coast for this one:

  “I’m still in shock because it was so fun. Like, I love football games that are crazy. That was a crazy game.” [08:49 – Schrager]

Game Flow and Key Moments

• Early Rams Dominance: Rams rack up almost 600 yards, hold the ball for 44 mins—“It felt like the Rams were the best team in the NFC and maybe even the whole league” [11:57 – Simmons].
• Sam Darnold Rollercoaster:
  • Darnold’s “two of the worst” picks in the third quarter had Simmons ready to rage-quit—“This is who he is. I couldn’t handle it. And then he redeems himself in an hour.” [05:34 – Simmons].
  • Schrager: “Those are hall of Fame guys. Darnold’s not at that level… but this one, with the division on the line and everything and the way it started, that's a huge game, man.” [26:28]
• The Insane Two-point Play:

  “A backward pass that rolls into the end zone… why did Charbonnet even pick it up? Herb Street’s praising him, but—what was he supposed to do?” [07:51 – Simmons]

  • Review confusion, pure chaos, and a never-seen-before outcome.
  • Schrager: “Every classic game needs to have a bizarre play.” [06:53]
• Rams’ Collapse Down the Stretch:
  • Missed field goals, conservative play calls, and squandered opportunities.
  • “Fourth quarter, it seemed like they got a little tight.” [08:49 – Schrager]
• Puka Nakua’s Legendary Performance:
  • “He’s like Michael Myers... just when you think he’s done, he gets another one.” [09:40 – Simmons]
  • 225 receiving yards—crazy stat: “Second team in history to have a QB throw for 450 yards and no picks and a WR have 225 yards and still lose.” [10:49 – Schrager]
• Rams-Seahawks Historic Bad Beat:
  • The teams' long-standing rivalry, Rams as Seattle’s “kryptonite” until now.
  • “Big picture: Rams dominate that game for the first 50 minutes… and then it got weird.” [11:57 – Simmons]

Big-Picture Takes

• How Did This Happen?

  “If I’m the Rams… we blew that. But we know we’re better than them. Is this a flaw?” [12:25 – Simmons]

• Missed Opportunity for Rams:
  • “That's an all-time loss in a game they needed to win.” [13:50 – Schrager]
• Future Outlook:
  • On Rams’ playoff hopes: “I like the Rams plus 270 [to win the division]. I don’t think they lose again.” [15:20 – Simmons]
  • NFC West scenarios and division odds discussed in real time.

Quote Highlights

• “If your listeners are listening and it's already Friday or Saturday, you're like, wait, this happened, this happened? We are fresh off this thing.” [08:49 – Schrager]
• “Has there ever been a better Thursday night game than that?” [02:22 – Simmons]
• “It was the craziest game of the year.” [09:14 – Simmons]

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Strategic Football Talk: Trust, Playcalling & Playoff Readiness (16:14–23:50)

• Rams Aren’t Just an Indoor Team: Nakua’s physicality makes them built for January:

  “No matter where they’re playing in January, I feel like they’re OK.” [16:26 – Simmons]

• Shrager on Seattle Under Mike McDonald:

  • “Seahawks are incredible on the road… I think they've lost, like, two games on the road under Mike McDonald in two years.” [17:01 – Schrager]

• Trust Issues with Darnold:

  • “I’m still not positive he trusts Darnold.” [17:49 – Simmons]
  • Emphasis on the Seahawks' conservative play-calling compared to Rams' early-game aggression.

• Use Shahid More!

  “It's weird to me that Shahid doesn't play more for them... every time they used him, he felt like he made an impact.” [18:38 – Simmons]

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NFL "Fork in the Road" Narratives (25:01–27:05)

• Darnold’s Reputation Battle:
  • “We would do two hours on Sam Darnold not being able to win the big game.” [25:28 – Schrager]
• "Cousins" Comp – Proving the Narrative Wrong:
  • “Cousins could not win in primetime, year after year… then he hits Kyle Rudolph in OT in New Orleans. Maybe this was that for Darnold.” [26:05 – Schrager]
• Bill’s Sports Dad Moment:

  “My daughter was like, 'You’re a psycho. Why do you even watch football when it makes you this crazy?’” [05:34 – Simmons]

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NFL Week 16 Picks & Handicapping (28:30–58:10)

Betting Anecdotes

• “Every time you think it’s going to zig, it zags. People are struggling.” [28:32 – Simmons]
• “This year has been just, just when you want to crown a team, they end up losing.” [29:07 – Schrager]
• Discussion of nightmare spreads, pick leagues, and the chaos of this NFL season.

Key Games Spotlighted

• Bears–Packers:

  • Chicago’s shot at No. 1 seed if they win.
  • “I like the Bears plus four and a half, under 53 and a half. I can’t imagine there are a lot of points.” [37:14 – Simmons]

• Titans–Chiefs:

  • “Chiefs haven’t played a meaningless game in 10 years… what do they care?” [38:10 – Simmons]

• Colts–49ers:

  • Sentimental pick for “old man Rivers”—Colts as lively home underdogs.

• Washington–Eagles:

  • Perennial trap game for Philly—“every year Washington wins it or comes close.” [45:33 – Simmons]

• Ravens–Patriots:

  • “Bad spot for the Pats… the weirdest thing is, they don’t 100% need it.” [47:08 – Simmons]

• Broncos–Jaguars:

  • Denver’s shot to lock down the No. 1 seed.
  • “I want to see how the Jags respond to that [physicality]. I don't know if I trust Lawrence. We’ll see.” [54:55 – Simmons]

• Notable Quotes:

  • “Have we ever had a better quarterback seem sadder? ... Even Stafford in Detroit didn’t seem this sad.” [31:28 – Simmons, on Joe Burrow]
  • “I don’t think the Panthers are good. I’m just going to throw that out there too.” [56:49 – Simmons]

• Final Five Picks for Ringer 107:

  1. Colts +5.5
  2. Ravens -2.5
  3. Broncos -3
  4. Bucs -3
  5. Bears +4.5/under 53.5 parlay

• “I think we ended in a good place. You talked me out of two possible stinkers.” [58:10 – Simmons]

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The NBA Six Pack (Michelob Ultra Segment) (59:45 onward)

1. Clippers Disaster Checkmate

• “I don’t know how you fix the Clippers…They seem to blindly think this is going to turn around and yet they won’t fire the coach.” [01:00:50 – Simmons]
• Zubots, Harden, aging stars—no assets, little hope.

2. Christmas Games—Storylines

• “Spurs-Thunder… the game I want to see more than any other game at all times… Cleveland-New York: if you think your family’s dysfunctional, bring over the Cavs.” [01:02:10 – Simmons]

3. Did the Pacers Break the Cavs?

• “The Cavs have not recovered since… this team can’t trade. We can’t make trades. This is our team.” [01:04:01 – Simmons]
• Deep dive into Cavs' cap hell; jokes about team therapy.

4. Rockets, Sengun, and Old Guy Scoring

• Rant about Houston crunch time:

  “They go to Sengun a lot at the end of these games, to the point I’m starting to watch the Durant body language…” [01:07:10 – Simmons]

• Durant & Curry’s old-man brilliance: only a handful of players have averaged 20+ at 37 years old.

5. Where Should the NBA Cup Be Held?

• “Let's get Vegas the fuck out. You need it to be a place… Seattle and Vancouver. I vote for that.” [01:11:45 – Simmons]
• Pitches Pacific Northwest, one for Seattle, Grizzlies’ ghost-town Vancouver.

6. League Pass Watch: Hornets & Pelicans

• “The Hornets—one big guy away. The Pelicans, all of a sudden, shit’s going down… Pool’s coming off the bench, they have what looks to be an NBA team.” [01:13:20 – Simmons]
• Advice to Atlanta: trade the Pelicans pick now!

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Memorable, Funny, and Human Moments

• Bill’s daughter:

  “You’re a psycho. Why do you even watch football when it makes you this crazy?” [05:34]

• Peter on media narratives:

  “He’s the kind of quarterback that we would just as a national media would just tomorrow on Get Up… we'd do two hours on Sam Darnold not being able to …” [25:28]

• Peter, on working with Chris “Mad Dog” Russo:

  “It's a dream. I thought it was interesting. There's a couple sacred cows in media and he's saying it on ESPN…” [39:09]

• Simmons’ “old guy” NBA lineup:

  “Do I really have to put Karl Malone in there? … Fine. Karl Malone … I hate it.” [01:08:55]

• NBA therapy for the Cavs:

  “Should we watch The Shawshank Redemption and see if hope is a good thing for us? We’re not making trades. This is our team.” [01:04:01]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Seahawks-Rams Reaction: 00:57 – 24:41
• Division/Playoff Outlook: 13:50 – 16:14
• Trust Issues & Player Talk: 16:14 – 23:50
• Darnold Narrative & “Fork in Road”: 25:01 – 27:05
• NFL Picks / Ringer 107: 28:30 – 58:10
• NBA Six Pack: 59:45 – 01:16:20

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Tone and Style

• Loose, sharp, affectionate, and irreverent—full of football agony, “dad jokes,” good-natured ribbing, and classic Simmons trade machine speculation. Bill’s pop-culture analogies and Schrager’s storytelling make it as much sports talk as group therapy.

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If You Listen to One Thing…

Don’t miss the Seahawks-Rams “WTF Classic” post-mortem (00:57–24:41) and the Ringer 107 NFL picks (28:30–58:10) for both insight and belly laughs.

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End Summary.

Transcript

[A]

This episode is sponsored by Uber Eats. Every time I sit down and watch the game, I find myself getting a little hungry. Football and food just go together, especially on Sundays. Good thing Uber Eats has game day deals all season long. We're talking savings on all your favorite eats and snacks. Wings, pizza, chips, drinks, you name it. Whether it's from your favorite restaurant or straight from the grocery store. Uber Eats has deals on everything you need for game day. Get game day deals on Uber Eats. Order now. The Bill Simmons Podcast brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I put up a new rewatchables on Wednesday and on Monday I did two. This week. We did the sure thing to pay tribute to Rob Reiner on Wednesday. Me and Chris Ryan. I love that movie. You can find it. It's on YouTube. Spoiler not streaming anywhere. Hopefully Hollywood will figure out a way to get it to stream. We we did High Fidelity on Monday, so two really good ones. And we have a really good documentary in the Music Box series on hbo. Can of Crows. Have you seen me lately? It's up right now on hbo. Max. Watch it whenever you want. You can also watch the one about Wizkid or the one about Jeff Buckley. We have three so far, so check all of them out. I made Peter Schrager stay up late to talk about an incredible. We say that word too much, but an incredible Rams Seahawks game. We're going to react off that. We're going to do Ringer. 107 picks. And then I opened a six pack for the NBA. Had some thoughts. I had some more NBA thoughts. So this is a fun podcast. We take a break, Pro Jam and then Peter Schrager. This episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast is presented by State Farm. Having insurance isn't the same as having State Farm. It's like expecting a linebacker on the football field, but getting a line cook. Sure, they both can handle the pressure when it starts heating up, but only one is stopping a touchdown. You wouldn't settle for just anything for your team, so don't settle for just any insurance. When it comes to getting help, you need State Farm is the real deal. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. All right. It is 8:54 Pacific Time. Peter Schrager said a couple days ago. Not only do I want to come on Thursday's pod, I want to come on after Rams, Seahawks. And I'm like, are you sure you're in the East Coast? You sure you want to do this? You're working all day at espn. He said, no, no, I want to do it. And then we have a four hour game, it goes in overtime. The Seahawks win on a two point. It was the most dramatic, probably important Thursday night game, at least of this decade. Swings the NFC west, swings the one seed, the Rams. I don't even feel like they're in disgrace. They did everything they could. They had almost 600 yards, they had the ball almost 44 minutes. And the Seahawks win the game for a variety of reasons, some good, some dumb. Has there ever been a better Thursday night game than that?

[B]

I don't know. I'm trying to think. They had another good Thursday night game a few years back where Tyler Lockett had an incredible catch in the back of the end zone in the first half. Bill, that was so fun. It was so fun. It's like we were both texting throughout and Amazon did that amazing thing that we love. And I know cousin Sal mentions, you know, the Rams, they have a 97% chance win probability on this one.

[A]

Don't want to see that stat ever again. Guys, it doesn't matter. I don't care.

[B]

I don't care about the win probability.

[A]

I know we were writing.

[B]

I mean if we were back in the day when we used to read newspapers, like I could imagine the press box, the ink being dry on the Sam Darnold, you know, article that just can't win a big game. Always shifts the bed when it matters, pees down his leg, the whole thing.

[A]

The two interceptions, check out my iPad. All the times I deleted the topics I had. For us, it was like, can they play Sam Darnold next week? I had that like written down the third quarter.

[B]

He, he was amazing down the stretch and he made all so fun and well.

[A]

But what was weird is they didn't trust him. I thought down the stretch, especially late in the, in the fourth quarter, they were being very careful about how much they wanted to put in his hands. Where it was like, we could also just take this to a. But then when it's 37, 30 and they actually needed him to go down the field, that was the best stretch of the game he had.

[B]

They threw the ball six times in the first half. JSN had zero yards, one target. They just handed the ball to Charbonnet and Kenneth Walker every play and it's like, oh, they want to win 13:10. Well, that's not going to do it. Then he stinks it up in the third quarter. There's.

[A]

Well, he has two of the worst. It was like he had one bad pick and then the next one was Even worse. Felt like he was a pick six waiting to happen.

[B]

And like, again, sportswriter, it's already done. It's sent to the editor and it's one of those, all right, I'm getting the. I'm getting the elevator down and we're gonna go talk in the locker room. But I've got everything filled out. I just need to fill in the quotes and we'll get that at the podium and then some stuff at the locker. But the article's been written that the Seahawks have a major problem and this guy is this generation's. You fill it in. Whoever it is who couldn't win the big game, Warren Moon, whoever it was, like in the 80s 90s, whatever.

[A]

It's like insulting a Warren Moon. I'm just saying, you sitting next to my daughter. And she just came. My daughter's home from college. She doesn't care about football. She came down, she was on her phone just sitting next to me watching the game. And I was getting so mad at the Seahawks because I have them to win the NFC West. Like I might have had some money on them. I'm rooting against Cooper cup for fantasy. And she finally just got up and left. She was like, you're a psycho. Why do you even watch football when it makes you this crazy? I'm like, you don't understand. Sam Darnold always does this when the game actually matters. This is who he is. I couldn't. I couldn't handle it. And then he redeems himself in an hour.

[B]

I was trying to think of a great. I know. And Warren Moon is probably. That's a Hall of Fame quarterback that won a lot of big games. I'm trying to think of a guy, but who didn't have the big playoff win, you know, and that would be Moon. But I guess in basketball, Harden is kind of the equivalent. But these Darnold's not at that level. Those are hall of Fame guys.

[A]

But he had the last Rams game too. Combined with this one where it's like, this is the team you need to.

[B]

Beat in the playoff game last year.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Where he was sacked nine times and looked. And he's going to have two back to back 14 and three seasons. I mean, this guy. That was unbelievable. That was unbelievable. And Rams defense played well for 55 minutes of the game. They played great.

[A]

They were up. And then you add in, ran out of some gas.

[B]

Every classic game needs to have a bizarre play. The two point conversion, that was a backward pass that Charbonnet picks up and suddenly counts for two. And we're.

[A]

Wait, let's go backwards. He throws a pick. It's 30 14.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So we are already in. We're in the fourth quarter and we're in. Two touchdowns and two. Two points just to send it to overtime range. Shahid, who they feel like they just keep in the garage and just take him out on Sundays. Even in some of the biggest plays of this game, like his speed on the field, like if I'm the Rams, every time he's out on the field, I'm terrified. He was barely playing, but he has that huge punt return. They get a 2. All sense. 30, 22. Oh, get a stop. All of a sudden they're coming back down. Oh, and then the two point. And they blow it. And they run the worst two point play. I didn't know what the fuck it was. Literally hit a screen pass that hits the other team in the helmet. And then all of a sudden they're reviewing it. I've never seen that before, have you?

[B]

No.

[A]

A backward pass that rolls into the end zone. Why did Zach Charbonnet even pick it up? Herb Street's praising him. It's like, that's good awareness by herbstream. It's like he was picking the ball up.

[B]

What, what did McCauley say? Because I. I mean, I'm. I'm trying to remember, like, was there an explanation? I guess it makes sense. But on a fourth down, if that were to happen, is that. Is that. Are you allowed to like gain yards or is it just on a two point conversion? It was bizarre. And then I guess it counts.

[A]

Well, no. And they, I think, isn't the rule you can advance like a fumble for a touchdown in the last two minutes. But a two point, it's cool. Yeah. Well, you look at. So the Rams had five possessions in the fourth quarter. They somehow couldn't close the game. They missed a field goal.

[B]

They got conservative.

[A]

They did. They got a little tight first half.

[B]

We'Re texting, you're like, Gosh, McVeigh's going for everything. Four fourth down attempts. They go for it. The most he's ever done in a game. He all did it in the first half. And then fourth quarter, it seemed like.

[A]

They got a little bit.

[B]

All right, let's kick the ball. Let's punt the ball. Let's kick the field goal. They missed the field goal after we heard how this guy hadn't missed a kick his entire time as a ram of misses the field goal. I mean, if your listeners are listening and it's already Friday or Saturday, you're like, wait, this happened, this happened. We are fresh off this thing. So I'm just trying to rack it through in my brain and I'm still in shock because it was so fun. Like I love football games that are crazy. That was a crazy game.

[A]

It was the craziest game of the year. The Rams had in just in the, in the, in the four quarters before we got to. They had the ball for 37 of the 60 minutes and they had over 500 yards and probably couldn't even believe it was going to overtime. Seattle secondary was demolished. They had, they lost three of their best guys.

[B]

They're all, nobody left. And then they're all injured, right.

[A]

And then Puka who I guess just gained, he's like Michael Myers. He like just gained steam as the horror movie goes along. And just when you think he's, he's done, then he gets another one. He gets like a 41 yard touchdown. I went against him in fantasy at 40.5 points. I haven't even. The rest of my team hasn't even played yet in the playoffs. I already feel like I lost. And then Stafford for, you know, looked like there were various points in the game where I was like, he's going to win the mvp. This is a wrap. Yeah. And now he's not even going to be the 1 seed unless the Seahawks, who by the way they have a tough next two games at Carolina, at San Francisco with their left tackle didn't play today. They have all these secondary injuries. They're basically have one receiver, you know, so you can't feel great if you're them plus Sam Darnold going back to Carolina. But if you're the rams, you have four losses now you're 11 and four. You lost that Philly game which was the one of the three dumbest losses of the year. You lost that San Francisco Mac Jones game and then you lose this game and you lose Carolina in Carolina and Those are your four losses.

[B]

Good stat. I got friends just texting me. Second team in history to have a quarterback throw for 450 yards and no interceptions and a wide receiver have 225 receiving yards and still lose. It was, that's, I mean it's a crazy, crazy.

[A]

Well then you had Seattle gets the interception OT and then we review it and he didn't get his hands under it.

[B]

You're like, all right.

[A]

But after they review, it's incomplete. He had already made his entire team run all the way down to the end zone. It's like, no, no, no, we gotta get back at the field.

[B]

Cooper cup fumbles early. Former Ram redeems himself later. Ernest Jones, super bowl hero, he gets that interception. Actually, it's not an interception. These two teams are so intertwined and have so much history. And in recent history, the Rams have just owned the Seahawks. Whether it be the playoff game, when Jared Goff comes in with nine fingers and beats the Seahawks up in Seattle, and then the last few years, of course, where Darnold just hasn't been able to get it done. When he was with the Vikings, obviously, you know, that's fine, but with the Seahawks, they couldn't do it either. So Darnold, Seahawks. The Rams have always been kryptonite for both these guys.

[A]

And sure enough, well, big picture, Rams dominate that game for the first 50 minutes. And it felt like a difference in class watching it. It felt like the Rams were the best team in the NFC and maybe even the whole league. And Seattle was the light heavyweight trying to come up and fight. The heavyweight couldn't really run the ball that effectively. They took out jsn. They really had nowhere else to go. Darnold looked like he was in seeing ghost mode. Their defense couldn't really get press. It wasn't like that. That crazy 12th man kind of crowd. And the Rams dominated the game. And the punt return flipped the game. And then it got weird. And I don't know if I'm the Rams. How do I feel coming out of that game? Like, it's like, oh, my God, we blew that. But we know we're better than them. Is they. Are you looking in the mirror going, what's wrong? What do we have to. What did we do wrong? Is this a flaw? What happens?

[B]

You thought the devonte Adams situation would be their Achilles heel. However, you go through the box score for 457 yards and they had Nakua catch 12 balls. And then Xavier Smith and Mumfield and Allen and Ferguson and Parkinson and Winnington. They all. They all played great. They all played great.

[A]

That wasn't the reason they lost.

[B]

It wasn't the law. It wasn't like they missed Devonte so much that they couldn't score points. And then the defense was getting pressure. That's a. It's a crazy game in a crazy environment up there on a short week, in a week where you can make a million excuses, whether it be your number one wide receivers out with a hamstring, your number two or one A wide receivers and deal with a controversy throughout the week with a streamer and then the team has to put out a statement. He has to put out a statement. And then oh yeah, by the way, the head coach had a baby on Monday, has been violently ill the week before and the team had a flight delay. I mean there's a million ways you can say let's just not overdo this. That said, that is an all time loss. An all time loss in a game that they needed to win.

[A]

Yeah. So if they drop to five. So they're 11 and four now. But by the way, San Francisco, they play Indianapolis and Phil Rivers Week 16, we'll be talking about that. You're gonna do picks with me this week.

[B]

I'll be there Monday Night Football.

[A]

Yeah. So they could potentially be tied with San Francisco. So maybe, maybe you don't even have the five seed locked up. But if you get the five seed this year, I don't feel like that's the same kind of.

[B]

Because the Carolina.

[A]

Yeah. You're playing one of those crappy. And they'll be. The Rams would be like a five point favorite. I am personally not sold on Seattle getting through these next two months gate. I still feel like. Like if you had. I'll look at Fanduel as you're thinking about this but if you had to pick a team, even though the Seahawks have a slight advantage right now, who is going to be the NFC west champion between these two teams, Knowing what's left on the schedule, where you have San Francisco.

[B]

San Francisco has the tiebreaker right now for Seattle. They beat him in week one, so.

[A]

But they play in week 18. Yeah.

[B]

So if San Francisco and then the.

[A]

Rams go at Atlanta at. And then home Arizona, they're not losing again. So they're going to finish 13 and 4.

[B]

Rams will be 13 and 4. I'd have to do the math out. But like if San Francisco beats what San Francisco got. They got the Colts.

[A]

Colts. They have the. The Bears at home. Not an easy one. And then home for Seattle.

[B]

They went out.

[A]

Yeah. I mean I have the division odds for you. Yeah.

[B]

What do we got?

[A]

Seahawks -135 on fandom. Was that your first yawn?

[B]

I didn't yawn.

[A]

Mini land. Oh, it's like a giggle. Rams plus 270. 49ers plus 330. Feels like the. All of those should be way closer. I like the Rams plus 270. I'd still feel like they could. I don't think they lose again. And if Seattle and San Francisco. If Seattle loses. Well, I don't know. Hard to figure out but it's hard to figure out. Should be closer.

[B]

I was fired to stay up, not only because of this game and me knowing what it would be, but when I heard Zach Lowe breaking down the NBA cup finals on the east coast in Connecticut Tuesday night, that's when I texted you. I'm like, yeah, I could do this.

[A]

You're like, same age range. Yeah. Both have kids.

[B]

Both kids are sleeping about 10ft away. But that's okay. It's good.

[A]

I have a couple small ones for you. Notes off the game. Yeah. The Rams, the rare indoor team that also feels like they're kind of built for January cold weather.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think a big reason for it is Nakua, who's just extraordinary. And I don't. I don't know, it feels a little like watching Cooper cup that one year where it's like. I don't know how many years somebody can do this, where it's just. You're just driving the car 85 miles for seven hours a day, and at some point the car is going to be like, dude, enough. But right now, he's the receiver you would want out of any receiver in the league for a playoff game. So what I like about them is no matter where they're playing in January, I feel like they're okay. I don't know if I feel that way about the Seahawks, oddly enough, and.

[B]

I don't have the numbers in front of me. Seahawks under Mike McDonald are just incredible on the road. Like, they've lost a bunch of games at home, but I think they've lost, like, two games on the road under Mike McDonald in two years. So I agree. The way they play, where they don't run the ball, their offensive line is fine, and that they rely on a lot of passes to JSN and then hoping for defensive turnovers and all that, it's a. It's not a brand of football.

[A]

The other team's pass rush is always. Feels like it's either getting there. It's almost getting there every play.

[B]

I'm not sure if that wins a game in Green Bay or Chicago or Philadelphia. I get what you're saying.

[A]

That said, this team, maybe they won't have to. They might not have Ghost or Seattle.

[B]

Might be home for two rounds or. Or for, you know, one, and then go on the road from there.

[A]

I'm still not positive he trusts Darnold. There was a play in the first half when McVeigh was super aggressive, and then Seattle had a similar circumstance near midfield. Maybe it was a little more on Their end, but it was like a fourth and one and they punted. Yeah, no, I was like, ah, that's.

[B]

The entire first half.

[A]

Still don't totally trust that dude.

[B]

The entire first half was an indictment on what they thought of Darnold. They were run. I mean, that run game. I think they averaged 2.7 yards per carry all season. They were just running the ball with Charbonnet and Walker and if he doesn't have that one 45 yard catch. Early on, there was no passing yards in the first half. So it was this we're going to protect Sam Darnold approach, which you can't win football games that way, especially with a quarterback making $100 million, which Sam Darnold. And then the second half, it started off terribly and then like we said, he was fantastic. The final 10 minutes of this game, he was.

[A]

You know, far be it for me to make suggestions to an NFL team when they know more about football and plays and personnel than I do. It's weird to me that Shahid doesn't play more for them and that they don't look for more ways to just have him on the field being scary. Like, I would even consider lining him up at running back just to give the hint of like screen passes or quick coming out of the backfield, anything. I think that guy's terrifying. And every time they used him, he, he felt like he made an impact.

[B]

Well, the punt returns have been huge this season and he's totally, you know, that's, that's the play of the game to me. Brought everything back there, no question. And I think he had like, you know, a couple plays in the passing game. But to your point, use him on some trick plays. Use him on a reverse. Use him on a, you know, whatever it be, get him one play down.

[A]

The sideline for 40 yards. Just like try to do the Aaron Rodgers. I'll get a pass interference or it's a punt or he'll catch it.

[B]

I think midway through the game he had zero targets for zero catches, zero yards. I think it took until the fourth quarter he actually had a catch, which is strange.

[A]

I don't get that last note I had was I thought that was the most exciting two point in a while.

[B]

Oh my gosh.

[A]

And it was hilarious because Herb street with. They're driving in Herb street, they're unlike the twin and Herb Street's like, ow. I think if they score a touchdown, they'll probably go for a two point. It's like, yeah, yeah. I think that's what's going to happen. Kirk, Considering they lost the first matchup and they can't have a fucking tie, they're going to probably go for this.

[B]

If they go, oh, one and one. That doesn't win the division doesn't help them.

[A]

Herbie.

[B]

They had to do that. I also. It was like, even if they had just one matchup, the way these teams are doing it now, it's almost like you're a coward if you don't like, all right, you're a coward. Like, go do it. Like, you don't want to hear what. Go show what you're made of and show your team what you're made of.

[A]

Well, what if you had won the first game?

[B]

Maybe you kicked the extra point. I don't know. Yeah, the ties good enough, but then you had to stop them again with three minutes left.

[A]

Wait, can we do. Can we do who you think is going to win the super bowl now after you see that game? Because right now on FanDuel, Rams +490, Seahawks +550 are the two favorites.

[B]

So the Rams are still favored over the Seahawks.

[A]

Rams are still favored. Interesting. Bills are plus 800. Denver 850, Eagles 10 to 1, Packers 11 to 1.

[B]

What an amazing season.

[A]

That.

[B]

That's our choices.

[A]

You can make cases for all of them. Although I think the packers might have had too many injuries. I wouldn't really want to make the case for them.

[B]

Who did you. Not to bring it up if it was bad, but who'd you have? Do you have Ravens before the season? Who was your team to add?

[A]

The afc? No, I had packers over the Bills.

[B]

Packers, Bills. I had Eagle. I had Bills over Eagles. So we're both still alive here. Yeah, both of us with Bills. Only.

[A]

Only the chief picks are not alive.

[B]

Yeah, I know. Chiefs.

[A]

I think you should feel good about the Bills because I think they at least know who they are now.

[B]

And they've been there.

[A]

They know they don't have deep passes anymore, and they figured out how to adjust. And it's Allen and Cook, and they're just good enough on defense and for the afc. It might be enough.

[B]

It might be. It might be. We could talk about all the teams. I mean, I've been on the Broncos. You've been on the Broncos from before the season. You picked them to win the AFC West. I was hyping them up just because of, you know, my usual affinity for Sean Payton. But what they do is maddening for the rest of the league. They keep you in a game. Keep you in a game. And then they break your heart at the end with a Bo Nicks heroic drive every single time. And they win games by one score and they don't lose at home. And so if they're a one team.

[A]

They have a pass rush, they can get a couple 40 yard passes every play.

[B]

Best defensive football.

[A]

Yeah, they have, they bring things to the table. They have a good home field advantage, special teams. And it might work out that you just have to go through there to make the super bowl if you're in the afc, which is good for them because they're good in Denver. I, I was not, I was obviously not a Knicks guy and it was one of the. We were calling him boot and rally Bo for the first eight weeks. Me and Sal thought he was great. Last week he was really good. And then there was a lot of good stuff this week on the different shows with the video and the all 22 of just like how good some of his throws were. Even I was learning some lingo. The too high. He was beating the too high scraping linebacker.

[B]

Too high scraping linebacker. They're down 2314 and he leads them on three straight scoring drives. And I talked to Peyton this week. He's just like, I love this kid. I'm like, I know, I know. Then he's like, we got to get Harvey going more. So they don't even feel like they've gotten the rookie running back like in the flow. He's played okay. But they, they still feel like there's more to go on offense and then their defense is legit. So you know, too high safety. You could talk about all that all you want. I'll talk about the quarterback and the coach and the narrative that they just win at home. And when you need a big kick, Will Lutz will make that big kick. And when you need a big punt return, Marvin Mims will make that big punt return. So it's like they're very difficult to beat. Cause they don't shoot themselves in their own foot. Even though sometimes they make head scratching play calls and you're like, what is Sean doing? They always get theirselves out of it. And Bo Nick gets the job done.

[A]

And healthy at this point of the year.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Whereas like the Patriots I think have gone the other way and have had some, some injuries that have hurt. They were probably a little overvalued to the to begin with. But we're going to talk about them when we do. We'll take a break. We'll do Ringer 107. You're going to help me.

[B]

I'm going, I'm going nuts. Best. Best Thursday night game. I'm trying to rack my brain here.

[A]

See, I did the thing that I hate when other people do, when it's like the recency bias and you just. No, you just assume something was the best because you just saw it. But I think when it's basically you're battling for the number one seed, you have an incredible comeback game with an iconic ridiculous play that we're always going to remember. Like the fucking backward pass two point that someone counted and a punt return TD and we go in OT and they have to go touchdown two point to swing it. And they actually get it. It's pretty good.

[B]

There was a Cowboys, Packers Thursday night game back when like Bryant Gumbel was calling the games where Aaron Rodgers made his first start as a Packer. I remember that being like must see TV on a Thursday night against the Cowboys and Rodgers played awesome in the game. That was 2007 though I don't have one in the last 15, 20 years that I can remember that have been anything like.

[A]

We just watched the only other thing before we take a break, we probably should have led with this or at least mentioned it in the first five minutes. Like that was a little fork in the roadie for Darnold. Oh, like let's play it out where they just shaheed. It's a block block in the back on the punt return TD and they just lose by 14. It's done.

[B]

We're killing it.

[A]

What do we do next year with Sam Darnold? What do we do with quarterback?

[B]

Hanging fruit quarterback because he's been with the jets and said he saw ghosts against the Patriots and he's not a guy who's like loud. He's kind of a soft spoken guy that's not in the media. So he's the kind of quarterback that we would just as a national media would just tomorrow on Get Up, I'm on the show in about six hours. We would do three, two hours on Sam Darnold not being able to.

[A]

You're gonna get up in six hours?

[B]

Yeah. Come on.

[A]

Are you, are you in studio?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Oh my God, look at you. That's great.

[B]

About. I gotta talk about, you know, all the Miami Hurricane pass rushers that are.

[A]

Gonna be free to Steve some steal some of my points.

[B]

I already have been jotting them down. The thing you said though about the fork in the road, you know, the only other quarterback that like I could think of was Cousins could not win in primetime year after year after year. And then they played the Saints in a wild card round game. The COVID year or no, the year before COVID So it was 2020 and they went into New Orleans. He hits Kyle Rudolph in overtime for the touchdown.

[A]

I remember that.

[B]

And it was like his first big win. And after like five years of Cousins just sucking and getting piled on like a pin and getting beat up like a pinata, we all had to come in that Monday morning and kind of like tail between our legs, like, all right, Cousins, he won a big one. I don't know if that's tomorrow with Darnold. This isn't a playoff game. And last year he came back against the Bears in a big game. He came back against the Seahawks, which was kind of the reason they signed him. He did it in Seattle. He was fantastic. Like, he had big drives. But this one with the division on the line and everything and the way it started, that's a huge game, man.

[A]

It's good because it's polarizing either way. You can zag the other way and be like, I don't, I still don't feel comfortable with them. What about the first 50 minutes, guys? No doubt the good news is you're not going to have to do that much tomorrow and get up because there's probably going to be five other people on. It is you just get to just pick your spots, drop in, barely available, barely available room. You're doing your doing the hits like this. All right, taking a break. Help me with Ringer 107 in a second. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn ads. The best B2B marketing gets wasted on the wrong people. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals, including 130 million decision makers. And that's where it stands apart from the other ad buys. You could target your buyers by job title, industry, company role, seniority, skills, company revenue. So you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience. That's why LinkedIn Ads generates the highest B2B return and ad spend on all online ad networks. Seriously, all of them. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com SimmonsBill terms and conditions apply. All right, Ringer 107 with a worn out Peter Schrager who has to hop in a car in five hours and drive to Bristol to do more tv. So this is really quite an honor. We gave Joe House the week off he was like Sam Darnold. He was seeing ghosts. We didn't have the magic this year. Everyone's getting killed in picks this year Shrigs.

[B]

It's so hard.

[A]

It's my, my picks league that I, my Gus Ramsey who I think you know who's run this picks league since the early 90s. This is the worst. We have like 28, 30 teams in the league. We just pick against the spread. It's the worst across the board records we've ever had in the league and I don't really know the reasons for it but it's just every time you think it's going to zig it zags and vice versa and people are struggling. So I have a friend, my friend.

[B]

Jordan, he sends me the standings of his pick leagues like all the time. I'm like, he's like what do you think? I'm like you don't want, you don't want anyone. Like just go with your gut.

[A]

You're winning.

[B]

Let go. Just like you don't want anyone. It is so hard especially with the spread. Like this year has been just, just when you want to crown a team they end up losing. I mean you think about that Carolina team and their season. They beat all these world beaters. They beat the packers and the Rams swept by the Saints. It's like you can't, you can't predict.

[A]

Well think about they're also getting way better at how to set the spreads. Yeah. Like the Rams line today was Seahawks. It ended up Seahawks minus one and a half which I had, I lost by half point one by two. Yeah. Could have just bet the money line. I didn't. Okay, two games I think we're going to throw out Cowboys, Chargers, Bucks, Panthers, Lions, Steelers, Jets, Saints, Vikings, Giants, Falcons, Cards and Texans Raiders. I thought about Browns home getting 10 and a half in Cleveland against the Bills but it's just not fun to bet against Josh Allen.

[B]

No. And that could be 41 nothing.

[A]

Yeah, that's one of those feel stupid. Dolphins, Bengals.

[B]

I don't know what to get with the Dolphins. You have a seventh round quarterback who I was told was undraftable in the draft and he's going for his first career start. So as bad as the Bengals Mojo is. I don't know what we're. It's such a variable with Quinn Ewers.

[A]

But here's the thing is there like how is he going to be worse than Tua? I know Tua's have been unplayable for six weeks and you know, last week I just thought they were going to run the ball down Pittsburgh's throat. As soon as they fell behind by three, they had to start throwing it with them.

[B]

We're talking about narratives. Lost it with Darnold. It's like until you win those games, like the narrative with the weather. It's so obvious and it's so stupid. It's such low hanging fruit. But I'm there in Pittsburgh on Monday night and I'm like, I don't know. He doesn't win in the cold. And everyone's like, yeah, but I'm like, I don't think there's a yeah, but like, he's just terrible in the cold.

[A]

There was a yeah, but on this podcast last week, House and I were like, let's zag. Everyone thinks Tua can't win in cold weather. We're zagging. Guess what? We zagged off the road. We're staying away from Dolphins, Bengals. Even though I just want to point out it shouldn't have shifted the line that much that Tua was in the quarterback. I think it was plus one and a half to plus four and a half. I felt like that line moved three points and you depressed. Depressed Joe Burrow. I don't know.

[B]

Depressed Joe Burrow is the saddest version of any quarterback.

[A]

Hate to press.

[B]

Joe Burrow last week was really sad.

[A]

Have we ever had a better quarterback seem sadder?

[B]

So sad.

[A]

Even Stafford in Detroit didn't seem this sad. No, we couldn't have been more depressed.

[B]

So sad. And like, we. We run the sound on these shows. We have to respond to it. And I'm like, guys, it's almost too dark. Like, I don't. Everyone becomes a sports therapist on these shows too. It's like everyone has their own, like, mental health theory. I'm like, guys, let's just. I don't. Let's let Joe Burrow play football and we'll figure it all out when the season's over. Just how dark this is. But the way he played last week, his wor game as a pro. After those comments, I mean, that's. That's bleak.

[A]

It's really. It's one of the first times we've seen a star quarterback where the soundtrack for his passes would be 80s music. That's like the Smiths and Joy Division. The music that I liked once upon a time. Like, he should be wearing an overcoat during the sidelines.

[B]

The Donnie Darko soundtrack.

[A]

I like the Dolphins plus four and a half, but there's better games, I think okay. Five games in a parlay. I'll throw the parlay at you first.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Bears, Packers. Bears. Plus one and a half at home against Green Bay. Who lost Micah Parsons. They're not going to have Watson. Josh Jacobs still banged up. Who else is hurt on the Packers?

[B]

They might get Watson.

[A]

Come on.

[B]

We don't know. It's Saturday. I know.

[A]

It'll be like we're not sure. Is they like that? Maybe they'll run and they have one more injury.

[B]

Probably not going to get Evan Williams, who's their great safety. He's out. Van Ness has been in and out of the lineup and probably. I wouldn't imagine he's out there. And then Wyatt's out for the year, so.

[A]

And then Craft's out for the year. Right. That was the other. They had what, nine elite players and they're down to four, I think I.

[B]

Read they had like, you know, 10 guys who were day one starters who are probably not going to be active for this game, which is not great. Not great.

[A]

I think the Bears can run on them. I trust Caleb enough to do the one wow. Play a quarter where he just gets out of a sack. I don't totally. I'm sure he'll throw them the ball once, but I think it's okay. Your guy, Ben Johnson, big win. Take a bow. You were touting him before the year. Big one. But I was thinking doing a little tweak with the Bears plus four and a half and then taking the under up to 53 and a half because I can't imagine there's a lot of points on a Saturday cold weather Chicago game. What are the ads? That's a 30 to 27 game. I don't see it.

[B]

I would have thought Seattle versus the Rams without Devonte Adams in the rain and the whipping wind would have been.

[A]

Yeah, but think about what that took though. That took a punt return, TD and just weird shit, a backward two point.

[B]

I will say this about Green Bay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Halfley's really good as a defensive coordinator and like, this is one of those. All right. We've owned this team for two decades. They're at home. It's their biggest game, you know, since they went to the playoffs and had the double doink against the Eagles. This play Saturday night is going to be rocking. We've already beaten them once. Can we get enough out of guys like JJ Enigbare and guys like, you know, Baron Sorrel, whoever they have filling in on the defensive line? Can we get enough? Can we galvanize can we look at each other and say everyone's counted us out, Nobody believes in us. Classic. Nobody believes in us game and then say we own this team. I know. So I'm saying the defense, the defense, like, can they just do enough? Because you know, last time they played two weeks ago, zero runs over nine yards. I think they carried the ball 32 times maybe and they didn't break a hundred. Like it was as good as you could have possibly asked from the packers defense against a runoffense that ran all over the Philadelphia Eagles the week before. So they've beaten them before. That's what you're going to need. I think the packers offense, they'll score points, they'll get enough. It's if their defense can stop the run. And I think they can.

[A]

I'm a little worried about their offense and the receivers they have because I've had fantasy guys on that team the whole year. And Watson was the first one that seemed like he was getting open in the back twice a game. Kraft was their big third down guy. And now we're, you know, it's like, hey, Matthew golden, is this the week? And I don't think he's had more than three catches in any week. I like Matthew golden, but I actually think they're going to need him in the Chicago game. So I don't know. I like a little ugly Saturday night. I like the four and a half.

[B]

I like the Saturday night 8:20 game. I like this on the East Coast. Like, I like it. It's. Everyone's going to be watching Brady and Burkhart. It's on Fox. I assumed it was NFL Network. It's on Fox. So we're going to get Brady and Burkhart. I feel like we're going to hear Halfley's name said maybe 100 times. And there's a lot of teams that might be looking for coaches, fan bases who are just going to be sitting on the east coast, whether it be Giants fans, whether it be Titans fans, could be Raiders fans, could be Dolphins fans. You go down the list of like who might need a head coach and if they put on like one of these great defensive performances, we'll be talking about Halfley and like, okay, that's the head coaching guy. And it's because he did it without Micah. There's so many different parts to this game from the Green Bay side of like, we lose, we're probably done in the NFC North. These guys are going to run away with it and we finally like hand the torch back to these guys or if we win, we keep our foot on their throats and it's another two decades of dominance. One of those type deals.

[A]

So if the Bears win this, is there any chance they could be the one seed? There is, right? Yes.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because they're 12 to 1 to win the NFC right now in front of me. I mean they have, they have tough schedule left.

[B]

They had the Niners on a Sunday night.

[A]

Niners then. And then they have, I think Minnesota to end the season.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. I like bears plus four and a half to be under 52. I'm just going to mark that down. It's not official yet. We're going to mark that one down. Titans, Chiefs, Titans plus three at home against Gardner Minshew and a Chiefs team that hasn't played a meaningless game in 10 years. Nine years. I don't even know when.

[B]

I didn't make 10 straight playoffs.

[A]

So yeah, 11 years. So I didn't think the Chiefs were that good to begin with. Mahomes was keeping a lot of stuff together and now he's out. And one of the things is the Titans running game has really gotten going the last couple weeks. I don't. This line dropped from four to three. I don't know. It's kind of like the worst three.

[B]

I don't know. It's tough for me to think that the Titans are going to hang with the Chiefs. I don't care who's at quarter really. Titans.

[A]

I just, I haven't marked down. I want to talk it out. What are the Chiefs playing for right now? What do they care?

[B]

You're right. You're right.

[A]

I'm just, I'm curious like you, you're wired in with that team. Why are they going to give a about a game in Tennessee after their season?

[B]

Is the objectively better football players on the field at just about every position, you know, even without Mahomes and without whoever. And it's like if you have any pride. Do you lose to the Tennessee Titans? I don't know. I know Mahomes isn't there, but these are professionals.

[A]

I have games I like more. I just wanted to.

[B]

I wanted to get your thoughts on Chris Ro Russo's comments.

[A]

What did he say?

[B]

Kelsey didn't talk to the media after the game. Russo went nuts on first take. Said said he's saving it for his podcast. There's no sports fan actually listens to that podcast. He's taken on a Travis Kelsey.

[A]

That's a pretty big audience. I'm sitting there, sitting there telling their Partners. He doesn't want to talk to him so he could save it for new heights.

[B]

That's exactly what he said verbatim.

[A]

How much fun do you get to do TV with him? I would love that.

[B]

I only do first take on Wednesdays and I'm in studio with Chris Russo. It's like. It's a dream. It's a dream. I thought it was interesting. I feel like there's a couple sacred cows in media and he's saying it on espn where Jason Kelsey is employed, and he's just like, no one listens to that podcast. I'm just like, oh, Simmons is gonna. Probably has thoughts on this.

[A]

Oh, that's good. Well, he's wrong in that, but I appreciate the spirit. Okay, next game. So we're probably not doing the Titans plus three. I really do it. I wish it. I Wish it was plus four and a half. Colts plus five and a half.

[B]

The Mike McCoy Titan so much. I don't go with it.

[A]

No, I don't love them. I don't think they're very good. I just don't know. It's Gardner Minshew. We saw him play one series. He immediately threw the ball to the other team. I mean, he's bad. We've seen him fail in multiple teams, so that's kind of the great equalizer.

[B]

He was once your.

[A]

Your.

[B]

Your white whale. He was once.

[A]

It was fun. It seemed like he had a chance to have. You loved him for a while. I did. The Raiders kind of ended it. Colts plus five nap at home against the 49ers. I watched every play of this game last week.

[B]

Colts.

[A]

And the Colts are. Yeah, me too. Of the Colts, Seahawks. Just a really nice, really well paced, well coached, spirited effort by a Colts team that really wanted it, by the way. They really need this game.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And the Niners defense, some of the stats have been like the ti. The Titans mentioned it.

[B]

Titans went all over. Up and down the field.

[A]

Yeah. So I. I just think that line's too high.

[B]

Two variables here. So I talked to Aikman today. I said, give me just a thought. You know, when you're at the end of your career. He was 34 years old. You get beat up, you get hit a couple times. What's it like the next couple days? He's like, you know, you don't feel great until Tuesday, maybe Wednesday. You add 10 years to that. Five years removed from the game. We have no idea. Because it's Thursday. We're doing it like, is Rivers Okay. The physical toll. And I know he didn't get the crap beat out of him like people thought he was. Two good hits, that was bad. Two hits. But the, the 27 passes, the snaps, everything. So I know they have a long week. It's Monday night. That place is going to be rocking. It will be because they, they are.

[A]

They.

[B]

They know it's the season and it's also a whole Monday night game. Indianapolis. Great crowd. Is that enough or is this like he gave it all he had and that one thing, that's the Disney movie. They lose.

[A]

He wasn't even that good though. I mean, he was fine, but in.

[B]

A Disney movie that's how he would have played it. Make two big passes, get him into field goal range. They kick the field goal and then they lose on a heartbreaking field goal. And it's like he goes back to his family and it's like, I gave it all I had. It was great. Now he's got to do it for three more games.

[A]

28 year old kid crying in the stands. Buckner, I thought had a huge impact on Sunday. And just their, their front seven just seemed pretty feisty. They're low on cornerbacks, but against this Niners team that, I mean, this IUK situation is bizarre. Piersall's not playing. I think it's too many points. I'm going to mark down. Colts.

[B]

I like the Colts in this game.

[A]

Fun. Fun to roof or two. And FYI, kind of a kitchen sink game for them.

[B]

Yeah, no, and we talked about it over text and then you said you had a separate text chain with Hench and the boys about whether or not they should have bet against the Colts because their schedule was so difficult after the sauce trade. I mean, they haven't won a game since and then now it's like if they don't win this one, it's. It's pretty much done.

[A]

This episode is brought to you by NBA on Prime. It's Bill Simmons. The NBA on Prime is back this Friday with another thrilling doubleheader. It tips off with Tyrese Maxey and the Philadelphia 76ers heading up to Madison Square Garden to take on Jalen Brunson and the New York Knicks, who just won the NBA Cup. Then the action heads to the west as SGA and the Oklahoma City Thunder visit Anthony Edwards and the Minnesota Timberwolves. Pretty good rivalry there. If you're not a Prime member, that's not a problem. Sign up for a 30 day free trial to get started today. Sixers, Knicks, Thunder, T. Wolves. I mean, these could be playoff series. You could see Sixers, Knicks maybe as the 18 or the 27 and then Thunders T Wolves could easily be a first or second rounder and a good rivalry too, with Edwards and SGA. Coverage starts Friday at 6:30pm Eastern only on Prime. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com Amazon prime for details. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Sending out cookies for Santa, playing dreidel communal feasts. There's a lot of holiday traditions, but one that everyone should try is taking better care of themselves. BetterHelp is a good way to do that. If you're ready to find the right therapist for you, BetterHelp can help you start that journey this December. Start a new tradition by taking care of you. Our listeners get 10% [e-mail] billsimmons that is betterhelp.com Bill Simmons this episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra, the official beer partner of the NBA. While the NBA season is heating up, the best moments are served cold, just like a refreshing McGlob Ultra Superior light beer with only 95 calories. Nothing better than enjoying the games with a crisp, cold beard in your hand. And even better to see them in person. Luckily for you, that's where Michelob Ultra comes in, getting you closer than ever with a chance to see all the action in person. With courtside tickets to NBA games and more, Michelob Ultra Superior is worth playing for. Enter now@michelob ultra.com Courtside Michelob Ultra Courtside 25 to 26 no purchase necessary open to US residents 21/plus begins on October 1, 2025 ends on June 30, 2026 multiple entry periods. See official [e-mail] Courtside for free entry, entry details, prizes and details Home Jacksonville at Houston Last two I don't think there's a path for the playoffs for them if they lose this, so I have them marked down. Washington's plus seven at home against the Eagles, and I feel like we have this game every year and every year Washington wins it or comes close. And the Eagles are terrible in this game. And Mariota? Fine. He's. He's been okay. They've got most of their guys back. They hate the Eagles. These teams don't like each other.

[B]

And.

[A]

I don't trust the Eagles at all. And it's not like the Eagles are healthy, like a bunch of their guys are still out.

[B]

Lane Johnson's probably not going to play.

[A]

Yeah, and is Dickerson playing or no?

[B]

I don't know about Dickerson. Jalen Carter is not Going to play?

[A]

Yeah. What are we doing?

[B]

I'd be pretty confident. I mean, I haven't seen the report. It might be already out, but I think Lane Johnson's out. And I don't know. I feel like. Did you watch Washington Giants at all, or did that not mean.

[A]

I did not. I missed that game, too.

[B]

It's one of the worst football games you'll ever watch. Washington was awful, too. I mean, they won, but they had one couple nice plays to McLaren deep and wild Bill had a touchdown. But, like, it's that team. They're done, too. So I thought last week, Eagles, Raiders. And here's how I saw it happening. I'm like, Eagles fans woke up to snow. It was kind of surprising. Sunday, they had to dig out their cars. Annoying. Get to the stadium, one o', clock, start first play from scrimmage. Saquon goes one yard, and I swear on the broadcast, you can hear like a smattering of booze. Then they went on to have their best game in, like two years and give up 75 yards. But if they had not performed that way, I'd be doing like DEFCON 5. The whole thing with the Eagles.

[A]

Yeah, but who were they playing, though?

[B]

I know, but I think just getting that out and, like, doing that and dominating 31 to nothing and having the defense shut them down, having the offense, everyone get their touches, everyone do everything. I almost feel like, like, that game was important. They've already been through the wreckage, like, and now, okay, let's go kick the shit out of Washington also. Okay. I thought it was important.

[A]

I'm not going to mark it down. I can't believe I have to pick against the Pats, but we're in. We're under.500 in Ringer 107. And you got to do what you got to do. The Ravens are minus two and a half. Was the line that locked for this game against the Pats. I just think this is a bad spot for the Pats. And the weirdest thing about this game, they don't 100% need it. They could still win the division just by winning the last two. And this game, it's Ravens. Every game now is like their season's on the line. They're the healthiest they've been in a while. Pat still don't have Milton Williams. They still don't have Will Campbell. The defensive stats for them, the best the last four weeks, especially some of the advanced stuff, is really, really rough. Their ability to move the ball when they really need to, like Diggs has Disappeared the last few weeks.

[B]

I know where he is.

[A]

And they've gotten some home run plays from Henderson and they're still having trouble.

[B]

You know, putting game the ball three times in the second half.

[A]

Yeah. So this line being under three, I just think is wrong with the. If. If it was January and I had my team back, I'm in. If I have Will Campbell, Milton Williams for this game, I'm in. But I think, I think this is a game where you're going to feel that a little bit.

[B]

Patriots.

[A]

There's a weird Patriots at Baltimore history too.

[B]

I was just going to say this to you. Patriots fan scale. You know, that entire run, Baltimore was the thorn in the side. I mean everyone would say that it was Indian Indianapolis, but truly, even the.

[A]

07 game, we shouldn't have won that Monday night game. That was like a fucking miracle and we probably would have been better off losing that game.

[B]

Rex Ryan, the defensive coordinator, the. The.

[A]

All that. But I think they, I think they can run the ball in the Pats in this game without Mil Williams because you've been able to see these teams just go right up the middle and that's what the Ravens are.

[B]

Yeah. And then Derek Henry shows up and you're like, oh shit, Derrick Henry. Like they have Derrick Henry. Look, they flexed this game to Sunday night. Ravens have lost some terrible games recently at home.

[A]

They have.

[B]

I mean that. That Thanksgiving night game to the Bengals is. I've family, all Baltimore people. I mean it was as if, all right, pack it up. Season's done. That's what are we doing? So now you get another bite at it. I thought last week was huge. Shutting out the Bengals, getting the kind of vibe back. Lamar looked healthy. He looked good. I would pick the Ravens here. And I think your point is, is wise in that it matters a lot for Baltimore. Obviously they only get in if Pittsburgh and them figure their stuff out. Patriots, it's not do or die. Of course it's a nice to have, but you don't need this to make the playoffs. You certainly don't need this for the AFC east title.

[A]

I've had a pretty good feel for them this year. Like even when they were at Buffalo, I thought the line was too high. I really thought they had a chance to be in that game last week. I was really nervous about the game with the injuries and didn't want to pick against the Pats. But now we have no choice because we're way under.500.

[B]

Could we do a Ravens, Patriots all. I mean, we can go through it There was the Billy Cundiff game where Lee Evans drops the pass. You guys end up going to the super bowl the following year. You're up early. They come all the way back, beat you in Foxborough. And then there was that same season, a Sunday night game early on where the Ravens beat the Patriots, like week three in Baltimore. And then there's the Ray Rice game in the playoffs, obviously 20, whatever that was.

[A]

Thanks for bringing all these up.

[B]

But you guys have also gotten their number a bunch of times too.

[A]

Well, the 07 game was legendary for just pulling that out of the ass. But they my favorite Pats win non Super Bowl. I think of the entire 2000 and tens. Other than the Chiefs double pass. The D. Other than the D4 game was that Ravens game. Yeah. Cause I really do think the Ravens were better that year. And the Pats just outwitted them.

[B]

And Ravens were up early in that game, what, 14 nothing.

[A]

14 twice.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the Pats just. They just kind of figured out how to fuck them over. And they remember they ran the weird.

[B]

Formation and the weird formation on the sidelines. And then the next play you get Amendola and Edelman.

[A]

Unbelievable crowd for that game. They're singing the outfield. Four minutes left.

[B]

I was in the press.

[A]

No, I was watching home. It was a great one, though. I love that game.

[B]

And I feel like they haven't had a great matchup in years. It's kind of cool. Ravens Patriots, week 16 on a Saturday. Sunday night. Or Saturday, whatever it is. Yeah, Sunday night. I'm excited.

[A]

Lamar has been. There were signs of life last week. Maybe this could be a Lamar versus May. We'll see. And the. The other problem with them is the. The tight ends, which have been an issue for the Pats all year. And this is one of the best tight end teams. Yeah, I don't like the matchup. Broncos -3 in Denver against the Jaguars. This to me, is another overvalued game. I think the Jags have padded the numbers against some bad teams. I think we both believe in this Broncos team. And I just. I'm going to go against Trevor Lawrence until he wins a game like this. And if he wins this one, hats off with this is now a new Trevor Lawrence. I'll admit it. I'll admit defeat, but I don't see it. I. I just.

[B]

You said something.

[A]

I'm waiting for him to come out. The real Trevor Lawrence.

[B]

Two weeks ago when they beat the Colts, you had an awesome. You picked up on something that I did not pick up on. And you were, I guess, with Sal. And so it was in the moment Sunday night you're like, did you hear Trevor's press conference afterwards? And he did the whole thing about how the national media wants to talk about other teams.

[A]

Oh, that nobody believes in us.

[B]

They don't talk even in our division, you know, we're winning all these games they don't talk about. And I'm like, oh, Bill's right. And then I talked to folks in Jacksonville and it's not just Trevor Lawrence. It is their identity of we're not going to get respect until we take respect and the whole thing. And this week, Sean Payton innocuous comment says, you know, they're doing a lot of good things. Well, you know, and they're. I know no one sees them. They're a small market team and like Jackson, like that's all they needed.

[A]

Are you going Jags plus three here?

[B]

I'm not, I'm not. But I think, you know, I think I've said this before on your pod. Liam's, you know, 38 years old. Grant Udinsky, the offensive coordinator's 29 years old. Anthony Campanelli is like this amazing Jersey guy. Defensive coordinator, fired up dude, 40 years old. The GM is 34. Like, they're just a bunch of young, like, like super amped up, high energy guys. And this quarterback finally feeling the love, finally feeling confident. And that quote that you provided me, which I didn't even hear because I wasn't listening to Jaguars press conferences, was like, oh shit, Trevor Lawrence is a little bit of some shit to him. Like, and it was nice to hear. And then last week against the Jets, I know it's the Jets, 350 yards, five touchdowns, perfect QB rating. And like afterwards just, I mean they have been feeling themselves. So, so I, I'm curious to see how they show up to a team that hasn't lost a game at home in two years in the Broncos and everyone's already crowning, like, what are the Jaguars got? This is a good one and a.

[A]

Team that can lock down the one seed. Basically.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

One thing I want to see with the Jags and the re. One of the reasons I like the Broncos is the Broncos and the Texans are the two AFC teams that if you're a receiver or a running back coming out of the backfield, your eyes are in the back of your head, no doubt. Like, think about what that. What the Texans did to the Chiefs and that they basically changed the course of the, of the chief season with all the hits they laid on Them. And same thing last week with the Chiefs too, where they just got the shit kicked out of them. I want to see how the Texas, how the Jags respond to that. If the Broncos are like, because they can do it, they can turn it on. They can pound, they can. And I don't know if the Jags are like just a fun. We'll put up points. But if it's going to get really physical, what do you got? And then I don't know if I trust Lawrence. So we'll see. Maybe he'll. Maybe he'll stick it to me.

[B]

Houston and Denver are cool in that the NFL is so it's gone. So favoring the offense and the way the rules are and the way that, you know, it's just built the way the coaches coach all. And then you've got Denver and Houston, two teams that are very clearly defense first, offense second. And in this weird topsy turvy year where every week another team is the number one team on someone's power rankings, can a defensive team in 2025 win a Super Bowl? And I know you could say, well, Bo Nix and Cortland Sutton are. Sean Payton might be an offensive coach that is a defensive first team. And Houston is like way defense, little bit of offense. Those two teams are fascinating as we get to the playoffs and what they can do over the final few weeks.

[A]

So you don't like Titans plus three and you don't like Washington plus seven. No. And you didn't like Browns plus ten and a half. And we don't want to bet on Quinn Ewers.

[B]

Quinn Ewers.

[A]

Does that mean. Does that mean we're left with Bucks minus three. Panthers taking Carolina plus three coming off a loss to Tyler Shuck. They're taking the Bucks with all their receivers back.

[B]

Bucks. I think Bucks.

[A]

The Bucks with the, the chemistry questions.

[B]

With Mike Evans blowing a terrible game in the tunnel.

[A]

Blowing a terrible game and the defenders yelling at each other.

[B]

I said it last week. Worst loss all season was that game. The Falcons had 19 penalties against them.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And they lost that game at home with an eliminated Falcons team. And my favorite like Drake, London, not even on the field. Kyle Pitts goes for a billion yards. Like terrible loss. So bounce back. I gotta think. They gotta. They have to. They're. They should.

[A]

All right, so that's your pick.

[B]

That's what you're contributing, but with not great conviction.

[A]

Well, that doesn't make me feel good. Tampa minus three.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

I don't think the Panthers are good. I'm Just going to throw that out there too. It was shocking to watch the Saints just go up and down the field on them.

[B]

You were talking to McShay about it. I mean, Tyler Shuck, there's a lot to like about that guy. And he, he was. He outplayed Bryce Young when it mattered.

[A]

All right, so we're going excellence for Ringer107 brought to you with the lines from FanDuel Sportsbook. As always, we're going to do old man Philip Rivers plus five and a half with the Colts against the Niners at home in a must win game. Great crowd. I think that's a three point game one way or the other. Sadly, the Ravens minus two and a half against the Pats. It's fine. Pats can lose. This game still wins. I'm not going to sweat it out. I don't like the matchup. I don't like the injuries on the PAT side and I don't like the week that this game is happening. Broncos minus three against the Jaguars. We're acknowledging the Jaguars. Nobody believes in us. But I think a lot of people will be on the Jags this week.

[B]

I do too.

[A]

And you could argue that line should be a little higher considering the Broncos haven't lost in three months. Bucks minus three against the Panthers. It's more a pick against Carolina. And then last but not least, a little parlay Saturday night. Bears plus four and a half with the under 53 and a half.

[B]

Bill, I love those picks.

[A]

Those are those. I think we ended in a good place. You talked me out of two possible stinkers.

[B]

I think we're great.

[A]

I don't know if House would have done that. I think House would have walked me into traffic.

[B]

Kind of want House on this. I miss House. It's great.

[A]

I know.

[B]

What?

[A]

House is asleep. There's no great House lying like this. Storing right now. You missed the whole fourth quarter. That was today's Ringer 107. It's brought to you by FanDuel. Don't forget, odds are subject to change. That's it. Hey, good luck on get up. Try out the Peter's Pans segment that I gave you.

[B]

They love pun.

[A]

Peter's Pans, where you pan three things.

[B]

I like that idea.

[A]

Or Peter's principles. St. Peter's your four prayers for the week.

[B]

I like that one.

[A]

Let's bring in St. Peter.

[B]

That's good. St. Peter.

[A]

I'm trying to think what? I can't.

[B]

Sneaky Pete.

[A]

Sneaky Pete.

[B]

How about for Pete's sake?

[A]

For Pete's sake. And the graphic is just you like this. Can't wait. I can't wait to watch you tomorrow. Six hours, like grievances, like I can't.

[B]

Stand officials, like, Is that what it is, for Pete's sake?

[A]

Yeah. It's like your version of you've been mossed.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You're like, why are you punting on fourth and one, for Pete's sake?

[B]

Why are you wearing a backwards visor?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

All that stuff. Yes.

[A]

This guy gets cleaned out by the wide receiver who goes out of bounds and takes out his legs. Why aren't you looking at the field, for Pete's sake?

[B]

Why aren't we talking about Danny Wolfe and the Nets?

[A]

We're doing a lot of visuals. Pitch it. Pitch it tomorrow. All right. Peter Schrager, thanks for staying up with us. Great to see you as always.

[B]

You're the best, Bill.

[A]

Thank you. Hey, it's week 16 and FanDuel wants me to make some NFL predictions as we enter a crucial week of football. Ringer107 Just not enough here. Here are three week 16 predictions using FanDuel's odds. Does Miles Garrett get 1.5 sacks on Sunday and set the single season sack record against Josh Allen? The market's at +180 for him to do it. I would vote no on that one. I think he gets it a week later, the AFC number one seed battle. Which of these QBs is able to throw for two plus TDs? Bo Nix minus 132 or Trevor Lawrence plus 128? I'm going Bo Nix minus 132 longest rush in the Sunday night game. Derek Henry over under 19 and a half or Trevion Henderson 14 and a half Henderson. Will Rivers go over under his passing prop a 150.5 against the Niners? I am going under for old man Phil Rivers. You can bet all these our ringer 107 picks and so much more on FanDuel. Player game this episode is brought to you by Boar's Head. You know one of the best parts of football season. Getting together with friends and family to watch a game and the tasty food. And guys, if Boar's Head isn't on your home gating menu, you're fumbling big time. They'll help you serve the perfect game day spread premium meats, cheeses, dips and more. Trust me, nothing better than a Boar's Head sandwich. During halftime, throw in their blazing Buffalo chicken dip. Delicious. And you may even score an extra point or two. Elevate your game day Entertaining with Boar's Head. Visit your local Boar's Head deli for platter options. Boar's Head, committed to craft since 1905, this episode is brought to you by Rain X. So right now you might be thinking about leaving work early to make it home in time for the game or what you're going to make for dinner. But what I'm pretty sure you're not thinking about wiper blades. And that's okay because Rain X thinks about them all the time. They obsess about making the best wiper blades they can because Rain X knows that with the right preparation, there are no bad weather days. So when you change your blades, choose Rain X and go back to not thinking about wipers at all. Rain X, the number one wiper blade brand in America. All right, we are back with a special part of today's episode. It's brought to you by Michelob Ultra. We love Michelob Ultra right here. As the official beer partner of the NBA, they know the best moments on or off the court are served cold. So let's crack open a six pack because we're going to dig into the most buzzworthy NBA stuff that is happening right now and we'll do our superior play of the day as well. All right, I'm going to start here. So I don't want to start grim here on the Michelob Ultra Six Pack, but OKC killed the Clippers tonight. OKC is the defending champs. They're 25, 2. The Clippers are now 6 and 21. They're tied for third worst. They have to give OKC their first round pick in 20 and they have to do a first round pick swap for them in 27. And as you know, I am the trade machine. Picasso and I talked about this a little bit with Zach on Tuesday. What do you do if you're the Clippers? It's checkmated me. It's like in Goodwill Hunt. I was watching Goodwill Hunting with my son a couple days ago and when nobody can do the formula problem that he has, he leaves out in the hallway and then Will Hunting does and he solves it it and he's asking the people in the class, did you guys figure this out? Did you guys solve this? And people are like, no way. That wasn't me. I think the Clippers thing is like that thing. We don't have Will Hunting to come in and save this. Their only trade asset really is Zubots. And what are you getting for Zubots ultimately? And by the way, if you're trading him your Defense is going to be worse. Zach. I tried to test drive some hardened trades with him the other day and he was just poo pooing all of them. I don't think anyone wants Kawhi at 50 million a year. And you never know he's going to play. And you know, I mentioned this to Max Kellerman the other day, especially when you throw in the Chris Paul embarrassment. Ramona Shelburne wrote a piece about that. Every time you think this Clippers situation can't get worse, it feels like it's gotten worse and they're so uninspiring. They're playing the Lakers at home on Saturday night. It's going to be like 3, 4 Laker fans in the Intuit Dome. I think at some point the punishment is going to come down. Maybe before I'll start weekend. That's. I think there's whispers about that. We'll see. We'll see if they, if they actually do it. I just don't know what you do. And it's a pretty rare situation. Brooklyn was in this in the mid 2010s where the Celtics had their picks and at some point they like, they made a pretty creative danger Russell trade to get a pick. And I don't know if the Clippers are wired like that. I think they seem to blindly think this is going to turn around and yet they won't fire the coach. They gave Lawrence Frank. It seems like they gave him an extension, which feels like it's a little bit of a, we have this thing happening and here's an extension. I don't know. It's a suspicious extension for considering that the Norm Powell trade was probably the worst trade trade since the Luca trade. Just, I don't know how you fix this. I just don't. So that would be my first one in the six pack and it's depressing. I'm out of answers. I don't know how you fix the Clippers. Gahau asked me. My producer before is like, I hope the Clippers. I hope you have a fix. I don't. And if somebody has a fix out there, God bless you. But I think it has to be using Zubots and attaching him to Harden and seeing what you can get. Like, could Minnesota go in a tailspin and then all of a sudden be thinking about Gobert and Randle for Harden and Zubots. They're not doing that now, but maybe in two weeks if they lost some games, they start thinking about it. I think that's the only hope is that other teams get more desperate and start looking at your assets. But yikes. All right, second thing on the six pack, the Christmas games. So the last four. There's five games. I'm going to skip the first one for a second. The last four are really cool. Spurs, Thunder, which I think is the game I want to see more than any other game at all times. Dallas, Golden State. Sure, Golden State. What's going on with them? They're two games under.500. They lost tonight, and I don't know what the fix is with them either, but they're playing Dallas flag. They're running crunch time plays for him. Davis has rejuvenated him. I still think Dallas is going to be heard from as a playing theme, especially if Kyrie comes back. So that's the third game. Houston Lakers. That's a great game. And then Minnesota, Denver, we get the joker as the last one. So that's a fun Christmas. All the NFL games that look like they're all going to suck, but then you have the first game and it's Cleveland, New York. And if you think your family's dysfunctional, let me bring over the Cavs. Have some dysfunction at your Christmas table with the Cleveland Cavaliers, who sit solemnly and sullenly on their bench as they're down 10, wondering what happened. I went over on them on 56 and a half. That leads me to my third six pack because it's possible the Cavs could ruin Christmas or make a trade before then. Did the Pacers break the Cavs? The Cavs were awesome last year. They win like 64 games, 63 games, something like that. They had a long win streak. They figured out the Garland Mitchell thing. Mobley took a step up. They seemed happy. Kenny Atkinson is getting coach of the year buzz. It seems like it was a million years ago. And then they play the Pacers. Garland's hurt. Mobley misses a game. The Pacers hit a couple ridiculous shots, and by the end of the series, you're like, yeah, the Pacers are, for whatever reason, better. And the Cleveland Cavaliers have not recovered since. Here's another team that it's really hard to fix. They're 22 million over the second apron. And I bring this up because now that the season is going on, I was thinking about this last night. I had them on a smaller TV with no sound. I'm watching the bigger tv, but I have the Cavs game going and they just are losing double figures and they're cutting the bank. Max Drus is sitting there with his new long hair. He's Just solemnly sitting next to a couple teammates. Then it goes to Mitchell. He looks just bummed out. The guys on the court look bummed out. And you're like, whoa, what do we do with this? Because this team can't trade. First of all, you're way over the second apron. You can only do one for one trades. You can only take back less money than you can send out the second apron. So I did the math. I hope this is right. I found this on the Internets. It will cost them 163 million in second apron taxes if they just keep the number of the roster the way it is. So that would mean it would be a $400 million season for them to potentially be like a seven seed and then lose at round one. They have a couple outs. They can waive Wade and Porter before January 7th saves them about 3 million. Only 19 million to go. The cap rules are so dumb that Charlotte is 21 million under the cap. Jared Allen makes $20 million and yet the rules say they couldn't just trade Jared Allen to Charlotte for nothing. That is somehow illegal with the cap. Here's who they could trade him to. The Boston Celtics, who have a $22 million trade exception, who are the only team who could trade for Jared Allen and take off the second apron off Cleveland Sands. But guess what? They're not going to do that. Because right now there's 7.8 million under the second apron. And if they just did that trade, they'd then have to figure out how to get rid of 11.3 million which would be Simons. They'd have to take less money back. Good luck. I can't figure out where to move Jared Allen. They could do some whittle down trades. Like they could trade Struse to Utah for Niang, send them some picks and save 8 million. Still doesn't get them close to the getting rid of 22. They could trade Lonzo and Atlanta's trade exception. They could trade Streuss back to Miami. They have a big trade exception. That stuff that usually doesn't happen during the season. Teams aren't anxious to help out other teams for role players. They could trade Garland. But the one for one rules that they're handicapped with with, they're really screwed. Like, like here's a trade they could do. They could trade Garland to Washington for Chris Middleton's contract and picks, which Washington might think about. But that would only save them 6.2 million. They'd still be way under the apron. There's they could trade if Boston Took Allen, which I don't think they will, even with Tatum coming back, even with them having the expectations that they might actually be pretty good. I don't think they're going back over the second April. But if they could get under the second apron somehow, they could then do three for threes, two for twos. They could go after anybody. They go after LeBron, for God's sakes. But right now they can't do that. And that leads to the only other option they have, which is the nuclear option, which would be to trade Donovan Mitchell. And even in that case, it's really hard because they would have to get under the second apron before it made sense to get a bunch of players back that teams would have to trade to get down of a Mitchell. So if I were the Cavs, I would have a team meeting and say, look, you guys seem really unhappy. I don't know what's happened to us this year, but we can't make any trades. So this is our team, so get your shit together. Should we hire a team therapist? Let's do it. Should we all get drunk together? Should we watch the Shawshank Redemption and see if hope is a good thing for us? We're not making trades. This is our team. We're sorry we're spending a lot of money on it. Can you guys play better? That's probably the answer anyway. Get ready to spend Christmas morning with them. Fourth thing on the six pack. The Sengun crunch time stuff is pretty interesting in Houston. And they lost a game tonight in OT against New Orleans that I was watching on a TV with no sound. As I watched the Rams. I was watching a lot of basketball as I was watching the Rams game. I'm a multitasker. I know I'm getting older. Still throwing my fastball, still watching three games at once. Still got it. They go to Shengoon a lot at the end of these games, to the point that I'm starting to watch the Durant body language a little bit where he's like, I'm Kevin Durant, what are we doing? And Sengun's been really good in Denver the other night, which was a great game. He won the game for them and made a couple of big plays down the stretch, but. But it feels like they've tilted a little too far towards Shengoon, not far enough toward the Amen. Thompson could beat anybody off the dribble. And oh, by the way, we have Kevin Durant, who's probably going to score 35,000 points in his career, maybe more. So I Would like to see them fix the calibration on that versus what I feel like is starting to happen, where it's like, this is now Sengun's situation in the games. I think it's really hard to run all your stuff through a center now. The overtime game tonight came down to Reed shepherd. Missed a couple wide open threes that would have sent in a second ot. But I mentioned this because I'm watching these Rockets games going, I can't believe they're not giving it to KD more. And I think what's getting lost in this KD season and just in this season in general, and maybe we just take older guys for granted, but KD's having one of the better old guy seasons of all time, and so is Steph Curry. I went and looked it up. So what's the definition of an old guy? To me, it's like when I was growing up, John Havlicek was playing when he was like 37, 38. He seemed really, really old. And then Kareem in the 1985 finals when they beat the Celtics games that I went to, sadly, Kareem was all these huge bald spots in the back of his head. I don't think he had shaved his head yet. Maybe he had at that point, but regardless, he was just like, old guy Kareem. And then he just annihilated Robert Parish in the Finals. And it was notable because he had won the finals MVP in 1971 with the Bucks, and then he won it again in 1985 with the Lakers. It was like, oh, my God, 14 year span between Finals MVPs. This is amazing. He's so old. Well, Curry's 37 averaging 29.6 a game before tonight, and KD is 37, averaging 24.8. And I mentioned this because only a handful of guys have ever been 37 years or older and average 20 points a game. LeBron, multiple times. Steph Curry, Durant, Kareem, Karl Malone, Michael Jordan on the Wizards. That's the entire list. And with Durant, I don't think anybody feels like he's old. You would never say he's getting up there, he's getting old. Curry's starting to seem a little creaky. Not that he's not still good, but he's wearing it. Especially at the end of these games, you're like, man, Steph seems exhausted. O I don't know if Steph could do this for six months. Durant just seems exactly the same. And this year, 24 and 8 24.85 rebounds a game. A couple other old guys that still kept it. Nash on the 2012 Suns was still 11 assists a game. Chris Paul and the 23 Suns, he was fine 14 and nine. And then Stockton did it for a long time, 13 and eight. But I was thinking about my Mount Rushmore for or my starting five for old guys. LeBron obviously. Kareem, I think Steph KD or Karl Malone. I've always tried during my career as a voice and a writer in a podcaster to discount Karl Malone anytime I could. Including creating the 42 Club. That was the way to get him out of the most 42 club. Points, assists, rebounds in the playoffs, 12 games or more. I made it 42 because it was the way to cut out Karl Malone the most times. So obviously I'm going to cut him out here and then let's go John Stockton just so we have a point guard. So Stockton, LeBron. Now Curry's my point guard. Do I really have to put Karl Malone in there? He's pretty good in those Utah seasons. I hate it. Fine. Karl Malone, LeBron. Steph Curry, Karl Malone. Kevin Durant, Kareem Abdul Jabbar. We'll go, we'll go. Big lineup. But I think that would be my old guy. Old guy. Starting five Kevin Durant. Secretly old. 2007 draft. It's a million years ago. Seattle had a team in 2007 in last. Oh, fifth one for the, for the six pack. I'm still doing this. Michelobotra what's the best location for the NBA cup semifinals and finals? Because I don't think anybody enjoys Vegas. I didn't want to go. I got. I could have gone on Saturday night, could have gone on Tuesday. I'm kind of over Vegas. When they changed the blackjack to six to five, I took it as a personal free on top of it. It's just. I don't know, maybe I've just gone there too many times. But the, the thought of just coming in to watch some basketball with some, some half assed crowds I couldn't get behind. But then the games turned out really good and I was actually mad that I didn't go to the San Antonio OKC game. The finals were great, but I was thinking like as a lot of people were, what would be a better location? Because I think we're good with Vegas. We go there for summer league. We don't need to go there for the NBA cup too. Get Vegas the fuck out. You need it to be a place that you Know, you can get the arena. People were talking about college stuff. So like you do the semis at Duke and you do the finals in unc. I'm not against that for one year. Indiana University gets the semis, the Pacers stadium gets the finals. That would be fun. The only problem is that the Pacers got into the finals. Then home field advantage. You could do Barclays semis, msg, finals, fine. Still, an advantage for the Knicks won't be an advantage for the Nets because they'll never be in the NBA Cup. The two I settled on. I like the idea of a Kentucky Louisville combo and not just because it would be great for J. Kyle Mann. Kentucky for the semis and then Louisville for the finals or vice versa. Louisville for the semis, Kentucky for the finals. Kentucky because of the Derby, kind of built in either venue to accommodate big crowds. So I thought that was fun. But here's where I've landed and I think this is a really good idea. And as usually I'll be the only one who sticks up for the good people of Seattle, where I have to do a live rewatchables at some point this spring because I love Seattle or a live basketball podcast or something because those guys had their team taken away and I'm still pissed about and now that team is probably going to be the best team of the 21st century. Fuck Seattle semifinals, Vancouver finals. We go Pacific Northwest in two cities where they took teams away from and I think that's the answer. Everybody loves going to Seattle. Everyone loves going to Vancouver. If you talk to anybody who covered the league in the 90s or the early 2000s, they always said like the best part, any road trip they had when they were covering a team was the Portland, Seattle, Vancouver. Pacific Northwest was always their favorite. So let's bring it back. Seattle and Vancouver. I vote for that. Next year could have the semis in Vancouver and the finals in Seattle or vice versa. I don't really care. I like paying homage to two cities that lost their teams for no reason in the fan base. Vancouver just got fucked from the get go with everybody running those teams and. And Seattle got run over by the OKC owners David Stern and Howard Schultz, who owns Starbucks and has a kajillion dollars and was a complete coward and sold the team to people from OKC who were going to move it. And he probably knew it and didn't care. So let's at least give them the NBA Cup. That's my fifth thing. Last but not least, two teams that I think are looking pretty Good that I would just watch from a league pass standpoint going forward. The Hornets, Miller's back. Lamelo played tonight. I shouldn't be excited when Lamelo plays, but that's where we're at with Lamelo. But they put up 66 points in 17 minutes against Atlanta. Held on late for a win. Really fun style. They're one big guy away. They need, like, a rebounder, somebody who can have their hands up. I really wish they could just trade for Jared Allen. I wish the CBA was better. But they have all their own firsts. They have a 20, 27 Dallas first, top two protectors, and they have a Miami first that becomes unprotected at some point during the decade because of the Terry Rozier trade, which the league refuses to acknowledge. But shady. So good coach Charles Lee, good new owners, respected front office, all of a sudden, and I just like the spot they're in. And I love watching them. The other team, the New Orleans Pelicans, all of a sudden, shit's going down. They beat Houston tonight, which is just incredible. Houston's good. Queen Murphy, Herb Jones. Pool's coming off the bench now. Like, all of a sudden, they have what looks to be an NBA team. And I mentioned this because if I was Atlanta, they have the New Orleans pick, the pick that we all think New Orleans has the worst record in the West, 6 and 22, and one of the top five worst records. I don't think it's going to stay that way now that they have everybody back, whether Zion plays or not. I think. I think, you know, there was a John Ewing, always posts, like, the spreads for different things. I like following him for gambling, and he had the NBA records against the spread. And New Orleans had, like, I think the best record against the spread or one of the best records. So they're constantly covering, they're losing close games, and they're about to have a breakthrough. And if I was Atlanta, I would trade that pick. Right now. Atlanta has the Porzingis expiring. They have a huge trade exception. They have a good team. They got to figure out the Trae Young thing. But they probably need one more wing shooter. This is their chance to get somebody really good. I think they should go after Giannis. I've been saying that from day one. But I would put that New Orleans pick on the table, because two months from now, I really genuinely think New Orleans will not be one of the five worst teams in the league. They have too much talent unless they go the other way. And they trade Trey Murphy and they start getting rid of guys, but I don't know if they will. And I will say the Pelicans crowd tonight. Granted, I was watching without sound, but everybody was standing and going nuts the whole game. So keep fighting for your team because I think you're going to have to anyway. Atlanta, listen to me. Trade the pick. That's the last thing on the six pack. If you want even more, you can grab yourself a pack of Michelob Ultra right here. Ultra getting you closer to the action with a chance to win exclusive prizes including courtside tickets and more Michelob Ultra Superiors worth playing for. Enter now at michelobaltra.com courtside Michelob Ultra Courtside 25 to 26. No purchase necessary. Open to US residents 21/plus begins on October 1, 2025. Ends on June 30, 2026. Multiple entry periods. See official [e-mail] courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details. That's it for the podcast today. Thanks to Gahao and Eduardo as well thanks to Peter Schrager for staying up late. Don't forget about the new music box about the Counting Crows. It's great. Go check it out on hbo. Max. Don't forget we did two rewatchables this week. We did the Short thing on Wednesday and we did High Fidelity on Monday. If you want stuff to listen to over the weekend, enjoy the weekend. I will see you on Sunday night. 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