The Bill Simmons Podcast

Episode: An NBA Power Poll, the Surprise Celtics, the Queen Conundrum, and Fake Trades Galore With Rob Mahoney

Date: December 9, 2025
Guests: Bill Simmons (Host), Rob Mahoney (The Ringer)

Overview

Bill Simmons and guest Rob Mahoney (of The Ringer) dig into Bill's annual NBA Power Poll, counting down from the bottom to the top of the league. Over nearly 100 minutes, they analyze every NBA team, debate surprise stories—especially the Celtics, assess the impact of the NBA Cup, dissect controversial trades (notably the "Queen Conundrum"), propose a variety of creative trade ideas, and share philosophical takes on team building. The episode captures a mix of skepticism, inside jokes, and impassioned basketball analysis.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Opening Thoughts & NBA Cup (03:32–04:54)

• Both hosts approach the NBA Cup with playful skepticism.
• Bill: "I've landed in the camp of I like watching basketball where the players care. I don't really care about the reason why they care, but as long as they care, I'm in." (04:20)
• Rob: "I have chosen to care about the Cup...But I like to find a little something to care about in the regular season, even if it's somewhat arbitrary." (04:07)
• General consensus: the Cup increases intensity, but no one remembers past winners.

Power Poll: Bottom Tier — "The Dregs" (05:26–28:26)

30. Washington Wizards

• Clear consensus as the league's worst team.
• Lack of defensive focus: "Their defensive attention span...is one of the most disastrous things in the NBA." (Rob, 05:56)
• Positive: Alex Starr’s development.

29. New Orleans Pelicans—"The Queen Conundrum"

• Heavy criticism for trading a valuable pick (unprotected) for Derrick Queen—not protecting the pick is seen as fireable.
• Bill and Rob both love Derrick Queen as a unique, competitive playmaker.
• Bill: “He’s a half court, possible elite, elite, elite half court guy...” (09:21)
• Keepers: Queen, Fears, Murphy. Rob suggests Murphy is a valuable trade asset.
• Fake trades for Pelicans (12:08–16:48):
  • Herb Jones to Lakers for assets: “That’s like, just call that in.” (12:26)
  • Alvarado to Detroit for Sasser + pick—Cobra Kai meme.
  • Clippers "Hail Mary" for Zion; discussion on whether to double down on health gambles.
  • Clippers described as a "movie scene at 4am in Vegas" metaphor for desperation.

28. Brooklyn Nets

• 6-17; skepticism about the Porter trade—only mild upgrades for directionless team.

27. Sacramento Kings

• Overwhelming sense of dysfunction and mismanagement after “Light the Beam” lost momentum:
  • Bad draft choices, ill-fitting signings (DeRozan), overpays and questionable ownership.
  • Rob: “Like, can we just get Vivek [owner] like a fidget spinner and get him an office in the corner?” (23:03)
  • Bill’s thesis: “When you do that many dumb things in a row, this is how the NBA works. They just hand you the number one pick...” (21:02)

26. Chicago Bulls

• Clawed down after a promising start; passing on Derrick Queen in the draft.
• Bill: “If Chicago passed on that trade, fire everybody.” (24:04)

25. Indiana Pacers

• Injury-plagued start; have pivoted to a tank, but core is promising if healthy; Turner/Huff situation debated.

"Life Support" Teams (30:18–36:29)

24. LA Clippers

• Kawhi Leonard’s trade value is debated; teams likely too wary of health concerns, with Detroit floated as a possible wild suitor.

23. Milwaukee Bucks

• Giannis’ future uncertain post-injury; the Dame/Turner moves revisited as possibly even worse than “Queen” deal.
• Rob, on Bucks: “...what if the LeBron Cavs trade for Antoine Jameson and Shaq? Like, there is that kind of vibe...” (35:32)

"The Young and the Frisky" (36:15–36:54)

• Utah, Portland, Charlotte dissected for their fun, up-and-down play and league pass intrigue.
• Extended conversation on draft class quality and potential All-NBA players. Bill and Rob go through the draft, comparing to the historic class of 1996. (39:02–41:36)

"Signs of Human Life" (39:39–54:45)

• Dallas: Anthony Davis trade rumors squashed; focus on building with Anthony Davis and Flag.
• Memphis: Zach Edey praised as transformative; fun league pass team.
• Philadelphia: Maxey given All-NBA-level props for leader role amid Embiid drama.
  • Bill: “He’s put them in, like, shifted them in an entirely new direction in gear...” (49:55)
• Phoenix: Dylan Brooks surprise impact; coach praised for maximizing a changing roster.
• Strong coaching across the league highlighted (Missoula, Spoelstra, more).

"Trade Machine Crew" & Playoff Hopefuls (54:45–66:23)

• Toronto: Bench units excel, future direction unclear.
• Golden State: Lament for fading dynasty; Kaminga’s value questioned; Draymond’s diminished physical impact vs. larger league.
• Atlanta, Miami: Trades, pick protection, and lingering salary questions discussed.
  • Miami’s Rozier trade: heat caught in gambling investigation fallout harms flexibility.

"The Wild Cards" and Top Contenders (67:43–104:02)

11. Orlando Magic

• Debate: Would you trade Paolo Banchero for Giannis? Both hosts: yes. “If you can trade for [Giannis], you do it and figure out all the other stuff later.” (68:33, Rob)

10. Cleveland Cavaliers

• Stuck in “peak Mitchell or Garland” dilemma.
• Garland viewed as a prime trade target for creative teams (Bill: “If I was another team, this is someone I would be targeting.” (70:54))

9. San Antonio Spurs

• Dylan Harper hyped as an “absolute steal.” Harper, Wemby, Castle seen as core to future; Spurs compared favorably to historical teams who drafted consecutive stars.

8. Boston Celtics — "The 1 Comeback Away Contender" (81:41–89:56)

• The most in-depth single-team breakdown.
• Jalen Brown’s breakout: “Jalen has a case for being the best forward in the league right now.” (50:30)
• Bench full of players with “something to prove.” Simmons: “There isn’t a single guy in this team who’s not like, I’m so happy to be part of this and I will fucking kill myself for us to win games.” (83:59)
• Missoula described as an “absolute lunatic” who refuses to tank.
• Debate about Tatum’s return timing/all-clear after injury.

The True Contenders (90:24–104:02)

7. Lakers

• Overachieving at 17–6, but concerns about depth and DeAndre Ayton’s stability.

6. Minnesota

• Point guard shortage threatens deep playoff run.

5. Detroit, 4. New York, 3. Houston

• Detroit’s ceiling linked to Ivey. Knicks making Finals would be huge, but seen as underdogs versus the Western elite.

2. Denver

• Surviving injuries, depth praised. If Cam Johnson is trustworthy in the playoffs, they’re the one team that should chase OKC.

1. Oklahoma City Thunder — "The Prohibitive Favorite"

• 23–1 start, +16 net rating, possibly breaking 73-win record.
• Rob: “The Thunder are going to be a tough matchup for anybody.”
• Simmon’s club soccer analogy: sheer dominance even when games are close.
• “They have answers for everybody.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Celtics’ surprising mentality:
  “Every single guy has something to prove... There isn’t a single guy on this team who’s not like, I’m so happy to be part of this and I will fucking kill myself for us to win games.” — Simmons (83:59)

• Rob on the Celtics’ role players:
  “[With] Jordan Walsh, Josh Minot, Hugo Gonzalez... normally when you take three flyers, maybe one guy hits. But they’ve all been good in various ways... enormous activity is warping plays...” (85:28)

• The "Queen Conundrum" summary:
  “Should they have put the protection on the pick? Fuck yeah. Everyone should have been fired...” — Bill (09:21)
  “Wouldn’t that be his greatest accomplishment, to overcome this disaster trade that I think would hang around the neck of almost any other player...” — Rob (08:40)

• On the Thunder’s dominance:
  "We've seen them do it shorthanded, on off nights, every combination...they just beat everybody." — Rob (99:59)

• Draft class speculation:
  “Could this be the best NBA draft since 1996?” — Bill (39:02)

• Sacramento front office satire:
  “Can we just get Vivek like a fidget spinner and get him an office in the corner?” — Rob (23:03)

• Clippers desperation as a Vegas movie scene:
  “They're in the movie in Vegas. It's Saturday night, it's four in the morning, and they're down a mill…” — Bill (14:41)

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |---------|-----------| | NBA Cup/Loving the Intensity | 03:32–04:54 | | Wizards: Defensive Disaster | 05:28–06:33 | | Pelicans & "Queen Conundrum" | 07:14–16:48 | | Kings: Dysfunctional Path | 19:35–23:24 | | Bulls: Blown Draft Opportunity | 24:04–25:43 | | Clippers & Kawhi Trade Value | 30:18–32:57 | | Bucks: Dame/Turner Disaster | 34:49–36:15 | | Breakout Celtics Analysis | 81:41–89:56 | | Thunder: Historical Dominance | 99:16–101:36 |

Episode Tone

• Playful, irreverent, deeply knowledgeable about NBA history and dynamics.
• Frequent use of inside jokes, gambling analogies, and metaphorical storytelling.
• Insightful but with a layer of wry, sometimes profane humor (“fucking kill myself for us to win,” “fuck you, Tim Legler,” “Can we just get Vivek like a fidget spinner”).

Summary: Why Listen?

This episode is a tour-de-force in-depth NBA analysis—every team gets covered, but Bill and Rob keep things engaging with hot takes, fake trades, and sharp observations (especially about under-the-radar trends, flawed franchises, and culture-first teams like the Celtics). If you want fresh perspectives, context around the league’s pivotal storylines, and enjoy basketball talk that’s as smart as it is funny, this is a must-listen.