← The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Bill Simmons Podcast
An NBA Scandal, the WembyCorn, a Three-Day Power Poll, and NFL Week 8 Picks With Joe House
01:37:14
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- [00:00]
A
This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra, the official beer partner of the NBA. With the start of basketball season, there is so much to look forward to. But you know the best moments are served cold, like dunking on a player or swatting a shot, or like cracking open a Michelob Ultra, the official beer partner of the NBA. Plus, they're getting fans closer to the game with a chance to win some amazing courtside seats, a trip to All Star Weekend, custom merch, and much more. Michelob Ultra Superior is worth playing for. Michelob Ultra Courtside 25 to 26. No purchase necessary. Open to US residents 21/ begins on October 1, 2025 and ends on June 30, 2026. Multiple entry period. See official rules@michelobalcher.com Courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details. The Bill Simmons Podcast brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network where I will have a new rewatchables for you at some point early next week. I think it's going to be Monday night, but we have to do a horror movie. And we've done Halloween 1 and we've done Halloween 4, but we have not done Halloween 2. And especially now that I'm in the new studio with. Can you see, can you see the Myers? There he is right there. Sam. Michael Myers, my guy. We're gonna do Halloween too. So that's gonna be the next Rewatchables. Now I just screwed up my camera and you can find that wherever you get your. Wherever you get your rewatchables, preferably on Spotify, on video. So there you go. We have. So I was gonna. I was gonna do the top of the podcast and talk about Chargers, Vikings and then the Warriors Nuggets game and then the Chargers decided to kill the Vikings. So I was going to watch the second half and then have some notes, but it was just the classic Thursday night stinker. And it all kind of flipped in the beginning when Herbert seemed like he threw a pick six and then they called it back because they said the ball kind of moved on the ground, the Chargers drove down and then that was it. So the Chargers beating the Vikings. And I guess we don't talk about that other than the fact that the Vikings do not look like a playoff team this year. And J.J. mcCarthy the mystery continues. So that. And then Denver and the warriors. We had the whole year to talk about that. So we're diving right into this so we can get the podcast up Faster. Joe House is coming on. We're going to talk about the NBA gambling scandal. I think scandal's the right word here. I'm going to do a very Brief Blink Test NBA Power Poll 4 House, because I watched a ton of basketball over the last couple days. And then last but not least, we're going to do Ringer 107 and try to find five games in a depleted schedule because we have six teams on a buy, but we found five that we liked. This is a very fun podcast. I'm just telling you now. We just recorded it and then I went a time machine to the beginning of this for this intro you're about to watch and take a break. Pearl Jam and then House. This is the Bill Simmons podcast, presented by FanDuel. If you're betting on the NFL, come on, FanDuel is the place to do it. They've got everything. Same game parlays, quick bets for when you want to jump in. Live your way so you can set your own lines on just about anything. The app's fast, it's easy to use, and best of all, when you win, you get paid instantly. I've been in Boston, Massachusetts. Recently. Guess what? I did use FanDuel super fun. Download the FanDuel app or go to Fando.com BS to get started. Must be 21 + President select states 18 + in D.C. kentucky and Wyoming. Gamma call win 100 gambler, visit rg-help.com call 888-78-9777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Conn. All right, we're taping this part of the podcast. This is the first time I've ever done this house where in the new studio. I have the Chargers Vikings game on. And I'm going to try to concentrate on you and not look to see what's happening. But there's. There's a lot of stuff going on right now.
- [04:27]
B
Football, football's going on.
- [04:29]
A
Football, basketball. The World Series is about to start. Did you pick a team to root for in the World Series or you just staying away?
- [04:36]
B
I. I picked a bet. I picked a few bets. I bet the Dodgers to win four games to one, plus 380 on the FanDuel sports book. I bet Shohei Ohtani to win MVP at plus 165. Did every square bet square?
- [04:51]
A
I love when you go square, but.
- [04:53]
B
I Ohtani MVP at plus odds. Like, I gotta have a taste of that, right?
- [04:58]
A
All right, here's the agenda. We're going to talk about. We're going to talk about all the gambling stuff that happened this week. We're going to talk about an NBA power poll and me watching basically two straight days of games. And I have a lot of thoughts. And then we're going to do Ringer 107 NFL. So the gambling thing broke today, and it was a massive story. And I was debating about, like, do we want to do anything on the pod about it or wait until. To see more facts and things like. But this passed the test of so many people in my life asking me, yo, what do you think? What is it? And I just feel like we have to do something about it. I just want to tell you the highlight, though. My mom texted me right in the middle as I'm getting like a million texts. I hope you and Sal aren't involved in this NBA betting scheme, exclamation point.
- [05:51]
B
Oh, I'm going to have a hardest time.
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A
I can't tell if she was serious or not.
- [05:54]
B
I'm going to have. I did have a lot of people in my life say, you like, they. As a joke, you know, how are you one. One degree removed? Is this three degrees removed? How far removed? You know, one degree of separation.
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A
So here's the thing, and this is going to sound like I'm making a defense of the gambling universe, which, as you know, I love, you love. We've been in it for this entire century, basically. I think with the. With the way the legalized gambling happened in all the states, it's gonna be rocky here in a couple different ways as we sort through this decade with what you can and can't do. Right? The good side is that the best books, they can monitor all this shit. If anything nefarious is going on, they're gonna sniff it out. And that's what's happened over and over again with all this stuff. They always sniff it out anytime there's irregular stuff. So in a weird way, it's being policed, I think, better than it's ever been, where we have an issue. And this is what I thought happened, especially with the Damon Jones thing. That was the most interesting part of this whole thing to me. Damon Jones was obviously friends with LeBron James. He finds out LeBron's not playing in a Milwaukee Bucks game and tells. Allegedly tells somebody he knows, hey, you know, LeBron's not playing. Like, don't forget about me. He's like, dee Jones has to eat whatever he said. And this is an issue. I think the NBA and NFL specifically have baseball too, obviously, where they can get intel that somebody's not Playing or somebody's hurt and they can get that intel ahead of time and quickly make smaller scale bets. But it's the players controlling information that's coming from them where they don't even know where it's going. They're just telling a buddy they have no, like I'm telling you, yeah, I might not record my pod tonight. You know, this happened here. Like, oh, I'm gonna tell fanduel Simmons isn't like, that's kind of what's going on in house. I don't know how they police this.
- [07:54]
B
Well, they can't really police that specific situation that you're describing with the Damon Jones thing, what's being alleged on that particular fact pattern. Because yes, there is already in place a series of injury reports over the course of a day. Every single day. The NBA Pope puts out what on the hour, every two hours, an injury report. The very first one, you know, identifies guys and gives likelihood of playing and.
- [08:28]
A
Over the course, strain, questionable, probable.
- [08:32]
B
And some of what's been alleged in these indictments is like guys going from probable to out right over the course of a day. But that at least is a form of communication that lets the market know, here are the possibilities for guys that are going to be, you know, possibly playing, possibly impaired, whatever the situation is. And for the most part, you can kind of see it coming. Like it is the case now that the journalism around the NBA, the NBA info sphere is sufficient. Like, oh, that guy did something, tweaked a calf last night, so he shows up on the injury report the next day and it might say, started off as probable at the morning shoot around or whatever. And then over the course of the day, maybe the condition changes, it worsens. But you can, if you're, you know, trying to gamble on stuff, build that into what you anticipate, you know, like the intuition.
- [09:30]
A
The warriors might rest Curry. It's a back to back, right? You can kind of infer certain things. I think the difference with this though, what this opens up is all the people connected to a good player's life can take advantage of that if they want to, right? The equipment managers, the trainers, somebody who's a security guard in the building who overhears Steph say, yeah, I'm not playing tonight. And that's where it gets harder to police. But this is where I think the sportsbooks actually they can know, especially with the unders and some of the, some of the bets that they can go. That's weird. Why are all these people betting on the Terry Rozier under that's how that started. It was like this irregular betting pattern that they noticed.
- [10:15]
B
Well the window of opportunity for the non public information is before the first injury report. So like it seems it has to be the case. I. I have not you know sat down and committed to full memory and.
- [10:28]
A
I have not either unfortunately was busy. Too busy today to read the entire.
- [10:32]
B
I'm reading indictments and stuff. But you know for both Damon Jones and what's being alleged about Chauncey which is he told somebody in advance of a game that all he was going to sit all the best players.
- [10:42]
A
That one's different that that. So the Chauncey thing moves into Pete Rose territory. Well and Ch.
- [10:48]
B
And.
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A
And Chauncey allegedly is in both sides of this because this is two different things. It's an illegal poker scheme which was crazy with X rays and the tables and you're putting in tinted contact lenses. You see mark cards like shit. I didn't even. I've heard a lot of crazy illegal poker game stories. I didn't even know you could do this.
- [11:05]
B
That' rich guys do to each other. You know what I mean? That's rich guy crime on crime.
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A
You know who's never played an illegal poker game? This guy right here. I don't trust it.
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B
Yeah, that's good. Good intuition.
- [11:16]
A
But. So Chauncey was in that. But then he was also in this basketball side allegedly. Where. And I looked it up. It's interesting. The game they pointed out it was the 202023 team. It was D. Dame was there and they kind of shut Dame down for the rest of the season. Cause they were trying to tank for that Scoot Henderson picked up and it was the first game he got shut down on. He had played the game before and you can see the before after with the box scores of oh they still have some of their guys to. We have none of our guys. And if it's true that he tipped somebody off that they were doing this in a way that he wanted that person to gain financially from it. That's about as dark as anything that's happened in the NBA since Donaghy. If that's true.
- [12:03]
B
So the way that has to go down though is that the context surrounding the direction of the team. I mean this is. This requires time and energy that I promise I will not commit to the situation.
- [12:14]
A
I did it today. It was right as they. And they were already. They'd lost some.
- [12:18]
B
There we go.
- [12:18]
A
See they'd won the day before but it was in the mix of the tank.
- [12:22]
B
They're headed in a tank direction. So the market is already kind of anticipating. So the advantage that would. That he would have conferred is telling somebody absolutely without equivocation. These guys are definitely not playing. And that news. Doesn't he have an obligation in the injury report? All those names at the very first time the injury report appears should have had those names on it. And I'm not going back and looking at it, but we can.
- [12:46]
A
Yeah, but you can put that game before it comes out that day. You can put in the game in the bet.
- [12:51]
B
Yes, you can.
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A
Out.
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B
That's the point.
- [12:54]
A
Dame's getting shoved because the key with this is Dame was playing and he realizes, all right, we're cutting this. We're sitting Dame for the rest of the season. Basically I'm going to give this information to somebody if that's what he did.
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B
Non public information that precedes the injury report.
- [13:08]
A
The market.
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B
You can bet. You can bet when you wake up first thing in the morning.
- [13:13]
A
So this is true that he did that. And then he's also in this other. The legal poker side of it too.
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B
But that was a one time thing. The way the indictment reads, he's like he helped get some. Lure some poor sucker to the poker game one time.
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A
But he's still in it. His like if all this is true, we, we're not going to. This guy coached last night. I watched last night. Him coaching.
- [13:36]
B
He did do that. He was a coach on the floor. Yes.
- [13:39]
A
And they, and then they sprung this.
- [13:41]
B
Chips to the middle.
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A
I don't think it was unintentional that they sprung this.
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B
No.
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A
In the worst possible timing for the NBA.
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B
Not, not, not.
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A
Stephen. I pointed that out on first take today that this is, you know, we're coming off this incredible Wemby game. That is what we should have been leading the podcast with today. And they just cut the legs out of it.
- [14:01]
B
And I mean two incredible games, two incredible nights for the NBA. Welcome back. A beautiful night on NBC followed up by an impeccable night on espn. Inside, the NBA is firing on all cylinders. We have a legendary. A career defining game out of Wemby. And the next day it's Cash Patel time, baby.
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A
It's not even the next day. It was 10 hours later. I got cash. Chauncey was on this list. And this is crazy. This guy's a Hall of Famer. I think one of the more respected players we've had this century. His name was Mr. Big Shot and he ends up on this list. Some of the people involved, these are Some of the nicknames house in this indictment list. Spanish G. Yes. Flappy the wrestler.
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B
Yes.
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A
Spook, Juice, Black Tony, Sugar, Albanian Bruce, John, South Doc, Black Rob and Pookie.
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B
We need to give out all those nicknames and apply them to ringer people. We need to do a draft. I mean I already know who Black Tony is. I know who Flappy is.
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A
So do you think Black Tony, you think there was a white Tony? There were two Tonys and there and they had to split up the Tonys and that.
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B
Very possible.
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A
Questions?
- [15:17]
B
Very possible.
- [15:19]
A
Albanian. Bruce couldn't just be Bruce. He had to be Albanian Bruce.
- [15:22]
B
There was another Bruce. Weren't there two Bruce's?
- [15:25]
A
Feel like there were two Bruce's. I well but the thing is this guy's Albanian. Bruce's real name was Osman Hoti.
- [15:31]
B
Fine.
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A
So yeah, there's a Doc. There has to be a Doc and all that somebody's got there was a.
- [15:37]
B
Doc and a Pookie. That that's what really made it feel authentic.
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A
So yeah, the Chauncey thing Bad. Rogier. So here's the thing.
- [15:46]
B
Bad? Yes. What's bad? Just everything bad. Ye bad.
- [15:51]
A
His career will be over in the NBA. Rozier, it's the other really interesting piece of this was cleared by the NBA. Now the FBI saying not only is he not cleared, here's like some, some and I did see some of that stuff in the indictment. Like they had real hardcore stuff with Rozier that was really bad. And the NBA cleared him. Said they looked at his phone and now this is a he said, he said thing with did Rozier. What did he do Now Rozier's career has gone into the absolute tank over the last two years.
- [16:26]
B
Right.
- [16:26]
A
Really as all of this started and turn it was a guy that Miami traded for from Charlotte and gave up a first round pick and we thought it was going to be this impactful trade. And two years later his career is definitely over. I'm sure Miami will figure out how to get him taken off the salary cap somehow and then replace him with a much better player.
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B
That's going to happen. Yeah. We're not going to be allowed to bet on that.
- [16:53]
A
No, you can, you can do that. But so those are the big three. And I do think on the one hand I don't feel like this is as big of a deal as it feels like. Like I think the Donahue thing was a much bigger deal.
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B
Way worse.
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A
It's like 10 times of a bigger deal. This is like yeah, if gambling is going to be more and more Prevalent. We're probably going to have a couple bad apples and everybody's going to learn how to behave and deal with it. And maybe don't share information about who's playing, not playing, and people you don't trust.
- [17:21]
B
Maybe just don't share it at all. How about that? That's what the injury report is for.
- [17:27]
A
Let me ask you the big picture, because I think the player unders, especially in the NBA, are problematic. And if I was like put. If they made me the czar of sports gambling. Right. Which I think I might have a chance. When you see some of Trump's cabinet, I can't be ruled out.
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B
Okay.
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A
If you made me the czar, I just want to know why we have player unders. Why not just be able to bet overs or nothing, Especially in basketball and especially when it's like not Steph Curry when you're talking about like Quinton Post over unders and Al Horford under threes. And to me, that's a danger area we could just eliminate.
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B
So I would just tweak it a tiny bit and just conceal. I can't come up with the word tighten up. Tighten up, constrict. That's it. Thank you.
- [18:23]
A
Golly, we're so old.
- [18:25]
B
The coffee. Yeah. Take the pool of eligible players. Just give out props on a handful of players. Just let it be the players that, that we know that we have reasonable certainty are going to play. You can take the props down if the guy ends up not playing because it's load management, whatever, but let's just have. You don't need really do. Do we need Quinton Post props? Did we need John Porter pot props?
- [18:48]
A
Honestly, I would do this for NFL too. I would only have like the bigger stars. Like, do we need K shot booty? Do we need it to be like under three and a half for his catches? He's actually pretty good. Maybe he's a bad example.
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B
Yeah.
- [19:03]
A
Give me a booty. It's like Kyle Williams, the Patriots rookie, like under, over. Under one and a half catches. Like, that's, that's where I think it goes sideways. So I would, I would stay if I was in charge of this. I would steer the props toward big players only.
- [19:16]
B
Yeah, you can do that.
- [19:18]
A
There's some other radical stuff you could do, like freeze the Lions five hours before the games and stuff like that. But that's really unfair if, you know, somebody gets scratched late. I. The thing in baseball that happened allegedly with a couple of the Cleveland Indians pitchers being able to bet on pitches, I think is Insane. I would probably get rid of that first.
- [19:38]
B
The first pitch. Props. Holy cow.
- [19:40]
A
I do wonder if 10 years from now, we're either going to have more of this or less. I would prefer less, but, you know, I think it's going to shake out the way it's going to shake out. I. I still feel like, look, there's way more gambling across the board than there used to be. You can see it everywhere. You can certainly see it on this podcast. And I think some of this stuff has to shake out, but we've always had the gambling stuff. I wondered, do you think all of these things still happen? If gambling hadn't been more legalized across the states in the last 10 years, I would argue the illegal poker games, we've been hearing about those for 30 years.
- [20:19]
B
You know, as long as we've been sentient. Like, I've been gambling on basketball since I was 17 years old. Like, how. How did I do that? How is that possible?
- [20:29]
A
Right.
- [20:29]
B
I knew a guy and there were lines. There were lines in the newspaper. There weren't lines on online, but there was a line in the, in the Boston Globe every day. Right.
- [20:41]
A
And the NFL is, is they're finding teams that lie in the injury report because they're putting these spreads out in the newspaper every day. So basically, we've always been doing this. I just feel like we're more honest about it. And in the process of being more honest about it, I think there's gonna be a couple hiccups that ultimately, if we can police all this and we can notice every time something's a little bit off, I think that's a plus, not a minus.
- [21:07]
B
That's where we are. It's so much more regulated. The books can. All established books can detect irregularities very rapidly. I mean, even the Rouge year game, didn't they shut that down? Didn't they close off.
- [21:21]
A
Shut it down right away?
- [21:22]
B
Yeah, right away. And immediately the same thing with John Tay Porter, like, oh, there are bets here. And it doesn't even have to be very sizable increments.
- [21:32]
A
Right.
- [21:33]
B
It's not like those dummies did attempt sizable increments because they're dummies. But, you know, there are, and we'll see. These indictments reveal how you can get to scale, how you can get to $200,000 on an outcome without calling undue attention. You're threading it out using proxies.
- [21:52]
A
That's not online usually. That's usually putting them on in different casinos. That's how they do it. They have, like, 10 runners putting places.
- [21:58]
B
Yes, exactly.
- [22:00]
A
All of them. But you mentioned John Tay Porter. Like, to me, that's the perfect example of why this is a little bit broken. Why are we allowed to bet on Jonte Porter unders. I didn't even know he was in the NBA when he was playing. What was it on Toronto?
- [22:14]
B
He was like the 15th man, right?
- [22:16]
A
Yeah, it would be like. I'm trying to think of anyone I watched in that Celtic Sixers game last night, the most obscure guy in that game betting the Barlow.
- [22:26]
B
I had to look up Barlow.
- [22:27]
A
Bidding unders on Barlow. Block shots like that shouldn't be a bet.
- [22:31]
B
Barlow got all the embiid minutes in the fourth quarter and he fucking deserved them. How about that?
- [22:36]
A
I can't wait to talk about that. So, yeah, there are any other fixes you would do for.
- [22:43]
B
You can just. Just, you know, the prop pool, you know, tightening it up a little bit. Makes sense to me.
- [22:50]
A
Okay, well, we're going to come back with Albanian, Bruce Black Rob and Pookie. No, no. I want to do some power poll stuff with you on NBA. And by the way, we'll. We'll keep talking about the. The gambling. I really want.
- [23:04]
B
There'll be a lot more information that comes to life.
- [23:06]
A
Yeah, I don't we don enough info yet. I wanted to talk about it, but I also feel like the story is going to evolve and move and like to me, people are saying this is the biggest issue the NBA has right now. I completely disagree. I really do. I think the biggest issue they have is the schedule. And I still can't believe that Houston OKC game I watched on Tuesday night and how hard those motherfuckers played and have to do that 81 more times plus playoffs. And Ahmed Thompson, who's probably the one of the five best athletes in the league and is young and should be able to go all day and he's about to keel over. They have to pull him out because he's getting cramps. And if you watch the game, how crazy he was playing back and forth. I'm much more concerned about how much speed, mileage, how much these guys run, the studies teams are doing about how much they run, how much sprinting they're doing during games. It's not sustainable. It's not.
- [24:02]
B
Yeah.
- [24:02]
A
Well, then I think that's a bigger issue for the league.
- [24:04]
B
That's the concern I had watching that Wemby game last night like that. We. We only should get one of those every two weeks, maybe even only once a month where he goes to that level with that level of intensity. Like when they, they were up by double digits with seven minutes left in the fourth quarter and he is still playing. I'm like, get Wemby off the court. Get that man right. Let that man rest. He's done enough.
- [24:33]
A
Right. And he only played 29 minutes. But they were hard 29 minutes, but incredible 29. So yeah, listen, they have to figure out all the gambling stuff. My, my thing with the NBA is they sober's a smart dude. They had a lot of smart people looking at this and I think they knew it was going to be rocky for a couple years and there are going to be a couple sacrificial lamps and there are going to be as Barkley said on Inside the NBA Today, which I've really enjoyed on espn, they've not fucked with the show. I got to give them credit to that. It feels like the exact same show on a different channel. But Barkley, they were arguing about whether this is like a gambling problem or whatever. And Bark is like, this is. These people are just stupid.
- [25:08]
B
He's right.
- [25:09]
A
This is a stupid problem I agree with. So how do we regulate the stupid? It's going to be.
- [25:15]
B
It's self executing.
- [25:16]
A
Be a work in progress.
- [25:17]
B
Well, it's self executing. I mean, you know, if guys want to self sabotage, there's plenty of, you know, attorney, whatever ready to take, take them and put them in shackles.
- [25:31]
A
Patel, let's. We'll take a quick break and then we'll do the power poll. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra, the official beer partner of the NBA. With the start of basketball season, there is so much to look forward to. But you know, the best moments are served cold. Like dunking on a player or swatting a shot or like cracking open a Michelob Ultra, the official beer partner of the NBA. Plus they're getting fans closer to the game With a chance to win some amazing courtside seats, a trip to All Star weekend, custom merch and much more. Michelob Ultra Superior is worth playing for. Michelob Ultra Courtside 25 to 26. No purchase necessary. Open to US residents 21/plus begins on October 1, 2025 and ends on June 30, 2026. Multiple entry periods. See official rules@michelobaltra.com quartzsite for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp, a highly rated online therapy platform. From listening to teaching positive coping skills, therapists do a lot for us. So October 10th, this World Mental Health Day, we are celebrating the therapists who've helped millions of people take a step forward. If you're ready to find the right therapist for you, BetterHelp can help you start that journey. Our listeners get 10% off their first month@betterhelp.com billsimmons that is betterhelp.com billsimmons all right, coming back, power poll. I watch both games Tuesday. I watch six straight hours of hoops on Wednesday. I had the three TVs going, which you've seen, plus my iPad. I had four going at once. I was just trying to soak in as much as I possibly could. House, we're getting old. I have to like retrain myself how to watch four basketball games at once. I really was having struggle with it. But what was interesting was and plus my daughter was playing yesterday too, her team. So that, so I had that. That then that ended. But the, the heart wants what the heart wants. And my eyes kept drifting towards Charlotte. Oh yeah, it's just a delight. Just a delightful league pass team. I really enjoyed them.
- [27:36]
B
I took a spin through lead pass. I had two. I only had two. I can handle two at one time.
- [27:42]
A
Yeah, yeah, I know.
- [27:43]
B
Two screens at once. The Charlotte game, I did not land on that one. That was not. It was like, shit, I don't need to see Brooklyn. That that really was the decision for me. I'm interested in Charlotte, but I don't need to see Brooklyn.
- [27:56]
A
I want to rip through a quick power poll. Just a little snapshot. There's some overreactions in here, but just after two days and there's games going on right now. Like as we're talking, Indiana's playing OKC later tonight. Denver's playing Golden State, right Favorite, still OKC contenders. So initially I had Denver, Knicks, Cavs, Minnesota and the Clippers as the contenders. I'm replacing the Clippers with Houston. That was the big ad for me after watching that game, which I talked about already on Tuesday. But the size and what we saw from Sengun and Amen Thompson, what the potential is of KD when they figured out how to use him. I think we did the over unders with Zach, what, two weeks ago?
- [28:41]
B
Yes.
- [28:43]
A
And I went under and I regret it because the ceiling of that team I think is a little higher than maybe I gave it credit for.
- [28:49]
B
What did you think I went under as well. But that's. I know that's not what you're asking, but the reason is because they do still yet need some guard play. They do still yet need some perimeter scoring like Dylan Brooks, whatever the limitations are, that dude shot nearly 40% from three for them last year. Jalen Green, whatever the limitations are, could create a shot under the right circumstances. They don't really am and Thompson could end up being that guy.
- [29:22]
A
But man, there's a lot of one on one though. There's a lot of clear out somebody beating somebody up the dribble or somebody posting up on a, on a side and. And not a lot of easy stuff.
- [29:32]
B
Over the course of all the number of games that they have to play, that limitation will kind of reveal itself to be a vulnerability. That's a badass basketball team. Let there be no badass.
- [29:43]
A
I mean, I really liked, I think I forgot to mention this Tuesday night. I really liked how Jabari looked. It was somebody I've always liked. I've kept on my stock. I thought he had some good moments for them.
- [29:52]
B
It was the most confident version of Jabari we've seen maybe in his entire career. He knew who he was supposed to be on the floor with that team and he's like, I'm here for it. I thought he was very good.
- [30:03]
A
Yeah. So they have to be in there because if Shengoon and Thompson, I had them in the high 20s when we did Ringer 100. But if they're moving up toward the low 20s or maybe even the teens combined with KD, combined with some of their depth, it might be enough to overcome all the other stuff. I went on Eddie and Terminy show yesterday.
- [30:21]
B
Awesome.
- [30:22]
A
And we were talking about this Reed shepherd thing, which you had the Brent Price joke that I give you credit for on Tuesday. He's not Mark Price, he's Brent Price. We'll see how it goes with rich guy Reed, but rich kid Reed, that was what a friend of mine who saw him at summer league said he was like a rich kid in an AAU tournament, which I thought was funny.
- [30:39]
B
It's pretty good.
- [30:40]
A
But we were talking with Eddie Johnson, we were talking about the Matt Maloney season. Eddie was on that team. Ah, that Barkley, Drexler, Hakeem. They make the, I think Western finals against Utah and it came down to Stockton versus Matt Maloney and Matt Maloney who they kind of like duct taped as a starter and been able and he could make a couple threes and he was okay. He was an Ivy Leaguer. Kudos to him for making it in the league. But then it got to John Stockton time and he got worked like a speed bag and it cost them a playoff series.
- [31:11]
B
Right.
- [31:12]
A
So the question for me with Houston is Are they going to leave that door open for a Matt Maloney situation or do what you've been saying for a month, Go trade for a fucking point guard?
- [31:21]
B
Yeah, they have time. I think they'll get a guard. I do think they're going to do it.
- [31:26]
A
I'm sure they're monitoring. I mean, Derek White was incredible yesterday. So if they want to godfather off for Derrick White, if the Celtics are going to keep having exciting games and then losing with a minute left.
- [31:37]
B
Wow. You just said that out loud.
- [31:38]
A
I don't want to trade Derek White.
- [31:40]
B
Why did you put him in this conversation?
- [31:42]
A
Because I think if Houston got a real guard, I think they could actually win the title.
- [31:47]
B
Derrick White is better than a real guard. Derrick White is fucking good.
- [31:51]
A
Yeah. This war chest.
- [31:54]
B
Yeah. Lord have mercy.
- [31:56]
A
I'm not the first one who said that.
- [31:58]
B
That's.
- [31:58]
A
Derek White's floated around. All right, all right. So Denver, Knicks, Cavs, Minnesota, Houston. Only other thing I noticed last night and. And especially down the stretch, he little comeback win for the Timberwolves and beat Chauncey. He sent Chauncey packing, literally. There was a little don't forget about me in that game where it's like all these teams, these new guys on the new teams, it's Wemby Cooper. Flag the West, Minnesota. We talked about how they had, I think, the six best odds in the west and people were discounting them in general. But there was a. There was a fuck you energy that he had in that game, which he.
- [32:39]
B
Needed it because they had to outscore the Trailblazers 30 to 19 in the fourth quarter to win the goddamn game. They were just, you know, sort of cruising along. It was like, dude, this is game one. Don't just show up and think that. That the Trailblazers is going to roll over. Jeremy Grant ain't here to just roll over for you. I mean, we had a classic Jeremy Grant game last night.
- [33:01]
A
Black Tony's texting Chauncey at halftime. Chauncey's like, not now.
- [33:05]
B
Don't let me send Pookie down there.
- [33:10]
A
Denver is about to play. We haven't even seen them yet with their. With their beautiful bench. I did see Mike Malone on the inside the NBA today, Michael Malone bemoaning that they didn't have a bench when he coached the team. Cavs. I don't want to hear a Cavs conversation, though. Garland is back and healthy. Let's see him healthy and playing well for two weeks.
- [33:32]
B
That feels fair. That feels fair.
- [33:34]
A
So okc, then Denver, Knicks, Cavs, Minnesota, Houston. Next group, two teams, possible contenders, Orlando and Golden State. And we'll see Golden State tonight. I liked how Golden State took care of business in the Los Angeles game.
- [33:47]
B
Me too.
- [33:48]
A
How Kaminga. They're basically the words Sean Marion have been thrown around for what Kerr wants from them this year. No, listen, just run the floor, defense, rebounding, athleticism. Just do that for us as a concept.
- [34:04]
B
It's a concept.
- [34:04]
A
Just be Sean Marion for us.
- [34:06]
B
We wanted to super athletic a concept. And we're going to use the word, the name Sean Marion to describe the concept. Not the player. Sean Marion, not the player.
- [34:15]
A
Just. Just conceptually do a Sean Marion impersonation.
- [34:19]
B
Okay.
- [34:21]
A
You know the Horford thing, I love Big Al. One of the most popular Celtics of all time. I did kind of hit fuck you mode watching the. Watching him in a wearer's uniform.
- [34:33]
B
Why?
- [34:35]
A
Well, he left twice.
- [34:38]
B
He's a lot.
- [34:39]
A
Boston, the first time he signed with Philly.
- [34:41]
B
Yeah.
- [34:42]
A
Came back. We won the title with him. And then he's like, now I'm going to go chase a title with Golden State. Well, he already won a title, but you know, for a little more money he's made a lot.
- [34:51]
B
Yeah, I wouldn't say he's chasing a title. It's, he's, it's. He had a good place to go to get another contract. What's wrong with.
- [34:57]
A
We loved him in Boston. Well, Boston and give him a contract. Listen, I'm not saying it's rational. I just got spiteful watching.
- [35:03]
B
I was like, fuck you. So unlike you.
- [35:05]
A
How, how dare you State. Yeah. My feelings. I didn't think it was going to hurt my feelings, but it did. He should have retired with the Celtics. And as he still do that with the. As usual, there's no loyalty in sports.
- [35:17]
B
I don't know why with the additional $25 million in his pocket or whatever.
- [35:21]
A
It is, but Golden State, possible contenders, but could see them moving up a notch. I like the vibe with them. And they, they very comfortably kicked the Lakers out. It was like really everything they wanted professional.
- [35:31]
B
It was very orderly. They're like, okay, this is fine. Good job. Pat them on the head.
- [35:36]
A
And then Orlando, who let Miami hang around for a while last night and then took care of business down the stretch. But you know, news flash. Desmond Bain's good at basketball. Who's the top 40 to 45 player? And they added him and gave up nothing. They just gave up future assets that weren't going to help them this year. So Orlando maybe. I. If I'm an Orlando Fan. And we went up, we went, I went slight under on them. Did you go under on them like 50 and a half?
- [36:01]
B
Yes, yes. Just, you know, 49 wins is still fine.
- [36:05]
A
I wonder, do you think 51, 52 wins could win the east if Cleveland continues to just have guys bouncing in and out and not ever being 100% healthy?
- [36:13]
B
No, because the Knicks.
- [36:14]
A
You think it's higher?
- [36:15]
B
Well, I, I, One of my locks was The Knicks over 53 and a half, I think. Yeah.
- [36:20]
A
So, so what's the number? What's the number for the winning record in the east?
- [36:23]
B
57 or 58 to me.
- [36:25]
A
Okay.
- [36:25]
B
Yeah. And I think for the.
- [36:26]
A
Lana's not getting there, but I want to watch them a little more carefully. See how Suggs didn't play a ton of minutes in that first game. I think a month from now, we.
- [36:37]
B
All bet over on Cleveland, by the way, me, you, and Zach. I think we were in agreement. I'm aware. And the number was 56 and a half, I think, for Cleveland, wasn't it?
- [36:45]
A
I'm not worried.
- [36:46]
B
Okay. Just saying they're all healthy. You asked me what number wins the East. It's got to be north of 56 and a half. That's all I'm saying.
- [36:53]
A
I hope so.
- [36:54]
B
Okay.
- [36:54]
A
I'm just, I'm trying to figure out a path for Orlando to be a 1 seed, and I think the win number would have to be way lower. Next category, the sleeper, San Antonio. So look, this is what happens with the NBA. Everybody goes nuts when we're all watching something at the same time and people throw the word insane around, because insane is the most used word in probably sports watching. And it was insane. I would argue it was actually underrated how insane it was. I was in awe. Like, to me, this was like Tiger that first year in 97, just demolishing golf courses. And we're like, what's going on? Him doing that to Dallas. Not just Davis, but you have lively there. You have flag. Like, you have this good defensive identity. And he completely eviscerated them in a way that we, we talked about in the over under podcast. I was all in on San Antonio being much better this year.
- [37:58]
B
You did, you did.
- [38:00]
A
And I really thought he had a chance. I thought him at 12 to 1 to win MVP was probably the best value odds. And who knows if he can even play 65 games. But what he did in that game was one of the most frightening things I've seen on a basketball court. And I can't even think of that many other Examples, that's the problem with.
- [38:20]
B
Is so rare now for us as sports fans to see an athlete that I'll just put it in a dumb way, takes our breath away. That doesn't really even begin to tell the story. Like, I can't believe my eyes are seeing something that I don't think I've seen before.
- [38:39]
A
That 100%.
- [38:41]
B
I can't compare him to anybody. For all of the years we've been watching basketball, I can't compare him to anybody.
- [38:50]
A
Like, no, it'd be like if There was a seven foot wide receiver who is basically like a seven foot Randy Moss and they were just throwing 50 yard passes to him and he would just jump up and catch them and we were like, what's going on? How is this a human being?
- [39:04]
B
Yeah, I, the speed is incredible. I mean what he did in terms of taking Anthony Davis out sort of north of the circle, he starts shaking the other. His crossover, he double crossovers, he hesis. And then he's. He's at the rim in a stride and he just flushes the fuck out of it. What, what did I just see in.
- [39:33]
A
The three point shooting I loved. He was clearly realized he needs to be a little more around the rim.
- [39:41]
B
Yes, yes.
- [39:42]
A
And news flash, we've been telling you that for two years. But I'm glad he figured it out. And then defensively, it's always fun to see the new guy like Flag was like, ah, this'll be fine, I'll figure him out. And he had a couple moments, he was like, oh my God, I didn't realize. We, listen, we talked about this in the overrunners pod. He just is moving better. He's more, I don't want to say more coordinated, but all the stuff he's done to work on his balance and his footwork, like you really see a difference. The first, that first year he was falling over half the time.
- [40:13]
B
He's a child. He's still growing. He's like, he's not, he's not grown. He's still growing. Like he's still filling out physically.
- [40:22]
A
I was thinking there was one play he had. Maybe it was when he did that through his legs 19 times, hit a three and got fouled and then cut to the spurs bench. And multiple guys were like this with their hands behind their head. And I was thinking like the Thomas Hill test.
- [40:38]
B
Yes.
- [40:39]
A
Of the latent shot. When they cut to, they cut to him after.
- [40:43]
B
He's like, oh my, oh my God.
- [40:45]
A
He's just like, I just in shock. And I think that's the rarest level an athlete can get to. When you. When you're Thomas Hill testing your team, your teammates or people on the bench, they're just like. And these guys are just playing basketball every day. They've seen every incarnation of everything.
- [41:02]
B
They're playing with him, his teammates play with him, and they can't believe what they're seeing.
- [41:07]
A
Right. We haven't had a basketball player do that.
- [41:12]
B
I know.
- [41:13]
A
I was trying to think about Curry, like, Curry, when he was breaking through, starting to make the threes, was, I think, the last one that gave people that feeling.
- [41:21]
B
Yeah. So the two that I was wondering about, and I'll go back and look because I am actually kind of intrigued by this intellectual exercise. Young Shaq was mind blowing.
- [41:33]
A
Orlando.
- [41:33]
B
Shaq, yeah, Young Orlando, when he was, like, super skinny when he started, it was like, yeah, nobody can stop him. There's no way. The only way to. To, you know, you have to foul him. And by fouling, I mean grab him by the arm and hold it.
- [41:47]
A
Because you also saw the way he ran the floor. You and I both separately saw him in those first two years, and we were just like, oh, my God.
- [41:53]
B
Right? What's that?
- [41:55]
A
Is this guy going to be the best player in the history of the league?
- [41:57]
B
But I don't.
- [41:58]
A
So Shaq's a good one.
- [41:59]
B
I don't think we felt. Ever felt that way with Giannis. I mean, Giannis was always.
- [42:05]
A
He.
- [42:06]
B
He jumps out at you. Right? And. And. And because the physical specimen is incomparable. But it took a while for the basketball part to kind of come in.
- [42:17]
A
It was never 100% like it was with the Wemby thing. It was like, whoa, this is really cool. But that was when we had that unicorn era with Porzingis and some of the, you know, Embiid. Some of these other, like, whoa, these guys. We haven't seen people like this. This Wimby's beyond a unicorn. I mean, nobody's ever done that on a basketball court before. I was watching with my son, who for the last, like, five, six years has been playing all the NBA 2K, all those games. And he had this player created when he was a kid called J.J. mcCutcheon. And the guy would have, like, be a 99 in every category, but he was also 7ft tall. And we would. And I would always be like, ben, this isn't like somebody who'd be a real player. I was like, yeah, but that's what makes him awesome. And we're watching. He's like, this is like J.J. mcCutcheon. This is like the guy I created. But if the guy was actually a.
- [43:07]
B
Real person, the kid says that. Here's what I want. I'm gonna ask. Can we talk to some old heads? I want to know what your dad thinks. How did he feel when he first saw Wilt and did he get to see Will live ever?
- [43:22]
A
Like, how did I do think Wilt and Russell were both like this. There's unquestionably all the reports from back then, like Russell's defense and his. The way he ran the floor and could protect the rim. Nobody had just ever seen it.
- [43:34]
B
Yeah.
- [43:35]
A
And then Will came in with some of the, you know, you can see some of it's on YouTube. Some of his finger roll stuff and like his power and his power on the rim, it just didn't exist.
- [43:44]
B
Right, right.
- [43:45]
A
So those are two good ones. Kareem had the sky hook that in person, you really had to. It's just. It does. It was just different in person. Yeah, you just kind of cut it. You were like, how is anyone ever going to block that? Magic and Bird had the passing, obviously. Jordan had the athleticism. Dominique as an in game dunker, I.
- [44:07]
B
Thought had a little of like nod.
- [44:09]
A
In person, but nothing like this.
- [44:10]
B
No, no, no, no, no.
- [44:12]
A
This was, and I will say LeBron in the late 2000s, his first two MVP seasons. And I remember writing about this once. Cause I wrote. I remember writing a piece about how he had arrived in like 09, but he had this play at a clipper game where it felt like he just dunked two steps from mid court. And the speed he had, it was so fast. We were all. You could just kind of hear the arena buzzing after. It was so crazy. Athletic. Oh, my God. Yeah.
- [44:40]
B
What was that athletic Karl Malone like? Hard to believe that's the sheer size at that speed. So we just went through nine of the top 12 players in the history of the game. So there we go.
- [44:52]
A
Well, that was always the ceiling for him. I think what's interesting about this is, you know, and we've talked about this in the past, but this always happens earlier than we think. Like, nobody thought Tiger was going to walk in and kill the Masters.
- [45:07]
B
You are right.
- [45:07]
A
And crush everybody.
- [45:09]
B
You are correct.
- [45:09]
A
And we thought LeBron was going to make the finals in 07. Sometimes this just happens earlier than you. Nobody thought Duncan was going to win the title in his second year, or maybe some people did, I don't remember. But it's always faster. Nobody thought OKC was going to be a contender and all of a sudden they were. And I wonder with San Antonio, is this just going to happen fast now? Is this a supercharge where we should just start if Wemby's going to be healthy all year. This is a top 17 period. And I don't know the answer.
- [45:42]
B
It's fascinating because we didn't really get a feel for what the role players, what the team around him looks like, how they're going to compete night in, night out. All we got was what really feels like a once in a lifetime performance in a one week span. We got Shohei Ohtani with one of the top three best baseball games in the history of the sport. Yeah, you know, fine. If you want to call it number one, I'm not going to argue with you. And then we got this ver. This. This game out of Wemby, a human specimen that is unlike any basketball player we've. We've seen with the. The kind of dominance that. That is unparalleled.
- [46:24]
A
And we got an X ray table legal poker game scandal. I mean what a week for all of us on FanDuel. Spurs over under is now up to minus. It's 45 and a half now. Yeah.
- [46:37]
B
I still think it's two full games or at least one full. No one.
- [46:40]
A
It was 44 and a half. 43. Now it's 45.
- [46:44]
B
Okay.
- [46:45]
A
But I just find it hard to believe that's not a contender. Here's the other thing with them. House. I loved how Cornet looked with them.
- [46:53]
B
Yeah.
- [46:56]
A
They have trade stuff if they want it.
- [46:58]
B
Sure.
- [46:58]
A
If they want to go. Really try to upgrade somebody. They didn't have deer and fox in that game. I loved how Castle looked in that game.
- [47:06]
B
I thought what a fit.
- [47:08]
A
I thought. I just felt like he went up a level and clearly I liked how he had a couple good alley oops to Wemby Symbiosis.
- [47:14]
B
They are on the same page. Same page. Them too.
- [47:17]
A
Unquestionably the sleeper this year. Next one, the aspiration gang, the Clippers. So move them down. They were so bad. I watched the first half of that Utah game. They were so bad that I don't even know what to make of has to be flagged.
- [47:33]
B
Why did they. Why did they show up that way? What do you think the explanation is one thing.
- [47:37]
A
We went over on them. We almost put them in our super.
- [47:41]
B
Boost because we needed them to get to 50 games. Right. The total is 49 and a half. Can they get that?
- [47:47]
A
We didn't put them in the super boost though.
- [47:49]
B
No. No, I mean, because you can't trust. They did a good job of building out their, their, their bench. I mean, I think this, the thesis for expecting them in the 48 to 52 win range is a sound thesis, but shit can go wrong.
- [48:06]
A
I do wonder about the personality, though. And it's one game I want to watch some more and, and I especially want to see them in person. But you have quiet Kawhi. You've Harden, who's in his own world. Your guy, Bradley Beal, who is like the come on guys, let's fucking go guy on that team. Chris Paul's too old, isn't it?
- [48:28]
B
Lopez should be Brook Lopez.
- [48:30]
A
He's not doing that. They don't have the guy is my point. So you're down 20 in Utah and the team's like, okay, let me ask you this. I didn't like their body language at all.
- [48:40]
B
You think that was Will Hardy's Super Bowl? He's like, I just want everybody in the basketball world to know, to remember.
- [48:47]
A
That I'm good at keeping.
- [48:48]
B
I just want you to see what I could do. Here's what. It's game one. The season's going to go the ways. I have some good players. Here's the stuff we're going to do. I could do this. We could. I could take these Utah white boys and, and get out here and run a basketball team this way. We're probably not going to do it all season long, but I just want you to see it.
- [49:08]
A
Well, I'll tell you this. Kessler. Kessler jumped out of the tv. He was fucking awesome in that game. Remember, the Knicks were like, we're trying to get Kessler. It's like, cool. Kessler is good. We're not just giving him to you. He looked great, though. It's going to be. I guess their guards will be the key to them tanking Utah. Yes, but when you have Kessler and marketing, you're just going to hang around in some of these games. I think one of the lessons of watching all the games last night, the talent is so fucking deep. It's like outrageous. I just can't believe how many good players there are. Even Charlotte, my beloved league. Pass. Charlotte team. Colin Sexton is just on the side, just coming in like the guy. That guy in the mid 2000s would have started on playoff teams.
- [49:55]
B
This is a nice, A nice observation you're making because I wanted to give out a handful of fuck yous. Hey, Atlanta Hawks. Fuck you. Like, here's the thing, right? It's game one. It's time to show up. It's time to show out a little bit. LA Clippers. Here's a nice fuck you for you. Here it is. I'll put it on a platter. I mean, the teams that showed up like, oh, we're. We're. We're just going to kind of roll through. I was impressed. The Heat. No, fuck you for the Heat. Good job, Pete. He competed, right? No, he did. Norm Powell was up for it. And how about Davion Mitchell? Davion Mitchell.
- [50:35]
A
It seemed like that. That had flashed in the pan possibilities. The Chargers. Chargers just scored. It's 21 to 3. This might just be the podcast tonight.
- [50:44]
B
Good. I do have a nice fuck you for the Pistons as well. Just want to give one out. The Pistons?
- [50:50]
A
Well, I want to get to them in a second. So the aspiration gang, the Clippers. By the way, I googled aspiration to see if there's a logo because I was going to do a joke and send it to you.
- [51:00]
B
Okay.
- [51:01]
A
And when you Google aspiration, the first thing that comes up is how it's people that choke on their own vomit.
- [51:08]
B
What? How can that.
- [51:10]
A
Aspiration?
- [51:11]
B
Yes. The physical phenomena. Yes. Right? Yeah, that.
- [51:14]
A
That is. I guess I'm surprised after choking on your own vomit. Why was that the charity. No wonder it went under.
- [51:23]
B
That's such a great, great joke. Missed this joke. I don't know.
- [51:28]
A
It took me forever.
- [51:29]
B
Going on for two months now. We missed this joke. It's amazing.
- [51:33]
A
Bomber choked on his own vomit. And $50 million.
- [51:37]
B
Uncle Dennis didn't choke. Uncle Dennis got all that cash.
- [51:40]
A
Next category. Now we're dropping off. This category is called, let's see in March. I got Dallas here and I got Milwaukee here. For different reasons, Dallas. I. I just. I want to go on the record, really, emphatically. This flag playing point guard thing is fucking stupid. It's stupid. Stop. Jason Kidd, we know you got your extension. We know you lucked out with the lottery. We know you did this with Giannis and Milwaukee, but this is not the right way to bring in a kid who's not even 19 and who doesn't know what kind of basketball player he is yet. But it clearly is special. You're putting all this extra stuff on him that I think is ridiculous. I don't understand. As soon as Kyrie comes back, he's never playing point guard again. What is the point of this?
- [52:28]
B
Who's supposed to play point guard for them?
- [52:30]
A
Play d', Angelo, Russell and Nemhard. Like, who cares?
- [52:33]
B
Okay?
- [52:34]
A
It's October.
- [52:35]
B
Okay, well, what I don't want to.
- [52:37]
A
Do is have flag dribbling the ball up against. Against Castle and people like that. Like that's crazy.
- [52:43]
B
You mean guys. I'll just go take the ball from him.
- [52:45]
A
Yeah. He's not a point guard. He's six, eight and a half. He's played forward his whole life. I just, I hated it. And Anthony Davis.
- [52:57]
B
Yes.
- [52:59]
A
Moving into a different phase of his career. Watch.
- [53:03]
B
Well, it's game one.
- [53:04]
A
I'm not on it yet, but I.
- [53:06]
B
Just didn't love the bot. Here's the thing, right. Let's see.
- [53:11]
A
2012 and he's a big guy and big guys don't usually age well.
- [53:15]
B
We want to see them play a team that doesn't have. I mean I don't. We have to come up with some way to describe Weana. That's not Unicorn. It's so superior to Unicorn. The most superior iteration of a unique be.
- [53:29]
A
How about just Wemby?
- [53:30]
B
Yes.
- [53:31]
A
He's a Wemby Corn.
- [53:32]
B
He's a Wemby Corn. Sure. Good. Let's see Dallas. When they're not playing the Wemby Corn because they're like them not having an answer for that. Maybe we can show them some grace.
- [53:43]
A
Who do they play tomorrow? They play. Oh, home against your Wizards. That's a great, great, great one.
- [53:49]
B
That'll clear out all the bad taste in our. Perfect. Yes.
- [53:52]
A
That sounds awesome. So I want to. I still think I like their players and their team. I'm still bullish on them. Milwaukee is the other one. Giannis looked like Giannis again. Porter got hurt during the game, but you know, they beat a bad team. But I'm still bullish on Milwaukee.
- [54:11]
B
As.
- [54:12]
A
As.
- [54:12]
B
Here's the thing.
- [54:13]
A
A mid to high 40s team, they are dedicated to.
- [54:16]
B
If they are dedicated to the bit they came out and shot the three ball. Excellent. And if that's they want to do right. Because they were the best percentage wise three point shooting team in the league. But they were underutilizing it volume wise. Well, five of their first eight made baskets were threes. They won the basketball game in the first six minutes. Now this might be a common theme when you play the Wizards, but they, they got up by. By 20. They. They were on pace. They had. They were on pace for 200 points in that game. They had 25 points in the first six minutes because they just were, you know, the ball moved beautifully. Those guys knew exactly where they were going to be. A.J.
- [54:56]
A
Green space.
- [54:57]
B
Yeah.
- [54:57]
A
They have space because of the shooters. They Took care of Green. Yeah.
- [55:00]
B
And they dared Washington to rotate defensively and it didn't happen. And they just knocked down threes.
- [55:07]
A
I like the concept theoretically of Giannis and shooting.
- [55:10]
B
Me too.
- [55:11]
A
And then Turner with Giannis defensively I think is going to matter. And I still am in on that team.
- [55:16]
B
It all makes sense.
- [55:18]
A
Next group. Flawed but interesting. I have five here. Lakers, Detroit, Toronto, Philly and Atlanta. I was down on Detroit before the season. It was one of my under locks. I think if I was a Detroit fan, what would disturb me is I'm playing Chicago, a team that's not going to make the playoffs. And if you knew nothing and you were just watching the game, you would think they were equal talent. Talent wise. Right. That's not a good sign for Detroit.
- [55:44]
B
My problem was the effort. Like you. They have guys with that, with. With the motor. Like that's what Ron Holland is for. That's what Duran is for. Like they're. You're supposed to. The role guys are supposed to help, you know, the starters. I don't. Are they discombobulated because Ivy is out again, like what. What's the explanation?
- [56:05]
A
Ivy's out? I just don't think with Ivy out, I just don't think from a talent standpoint they're that special unless Cade goes up another level. So I just. Flawed but interesting. I'm not ruling them out, ruling them in, but my instinct was that people were throwing them in this like east fringe contender conversation. I'm the opposite. I think they're closer to being a playing team.
- [56:27]
B
They had to outscore the Bulls by 11 in the fourth quarter to make it competitive on the stretch.
- [56:36]
A
Lakers I did not have as one of my playoff teams and I have losing.
- [56:40]
B
You gave them out as a play.
- [56:41]
A
In having them playing and I have them losing in the plan. And the reason is because I don't think they're going to be able to guard anybody. And then you watched an opening night. Golden State should have won that game by 25.
- [56:50]
B
Sure could have. Multiple times, multiple ways they could have won that game by 25.
- [56:53]
A
And I know they didn't have LeBron, but LeBron is now in his 40s and I don't think you can count on him in a real way for a regular season like you could have in even 2018.
- [57:03]
B
The Lakers aren't good enough. They don't have enough talent. That's all.
- [57:06]
A
And I don't. I don't necessarily even. I'm not positive they care about this season. I think it's more Of a good point. It's just take some chances. We have some expirings. Let's kind of see where we go. They extended JJ before the year, which I, I said to you and Zach two weeks ago, I thought was interesting. It made it seem like, hey, no matter what happens, we believe in this infrastructure. I don't. I think they're one of the six or seven worst defensive teams in the league, and I don't.
- [57:34]
B
How would you handicap the likelihood that sometime here in the next, I don't know, 30 days, maybe even less, that we get word that this is going to be LeBron's retirement tour?
- [57:48]
A
Are you asking me because you want to tell Damon Jones of Black Tony?
- [57:54]
B
Well, Damon Jones already knows. I need David Jones to tell me and Pookie. Me and Pookie.
- [58:00]
A
I do not think. I do not think LeBron is retiring.
- [58:02]
B
Okay.
- [58:02]
A
I think he's going to play till he's 45.
- [58:04]
B
Okay.
- [58:04]
A
I think LeBron and Aaron Rodgers are just going to keep going and going. Lakers very suspicious. I just don't think when you compare them to some of these teams in the west, like Houston and San Antonio, like Minnesota. These, these teams are young, go guy.
- [58:17]
B
By guy, position by position. They're not good enough.
- [58:20]
A
They're not good enough. We'll see. I've counted out the Lakers before in previous years, and then all of a sudden they went eight in a row. I just, I. Luka would have to go on a fucking heater.
- [58:29]
B
Remember again, Dorian, Finney Smith was really helped change the trajectory of that team because they really found a defensive identity. Like, it's crazy shit like that that can happen.
- [58:42]
A
Toronto look great.
- [58:44]
B
Toronto.
- [58:45]
A
That might have been one of my big misses.
- [58:47]
B
I. It was a Joe House lock. I don't remember whether or not Zach.
- [58:51]
A
Locked it, but they looked really good. I listen, I'll admit defeat if that. If that is a potential, like, top seven team, but I believe that it is. I thought they played hard. Yes, they were. They were long. They're healthy right now. Who longs? Who knows how long that's going to last? But they, they jumped out to me.
- [59:10]
B
Coach Darko played 11 guys. They're going to. If they, if they're going to play with that level of intensity and make sure that everybody gets the feels, get the touches, they're going to be tough. You made fun of me. I liked when I said to you.
- [59:22]
A
Make fun of you.
- [59:24]
B
I did the Oklahoma City, like, you know, they want to try that kind of blueprint, which is get out in transition. Try and force turnovers, try and be a defensive presence. And they won fast break points by like 20. And they had 86 points in the paint. In 138 points they scored, 86 of them were points in the paint because they kept going to the goddamn rim. Impressive. That's all. I'll stop.
- [59:51]
A
This is my overreaction game because Toronto kills Atlanta and Toronto, I'm with you. What I liked about what I saw from Toronto, they clearly know what they want to be. And what they wanted to be was athletic. And they want to push and they want to go and they want to go and they want to go. Now, I don't know if it was just because they were playing Atlanta or that's who they are, but there was an identity they had that I wasn't expecting. On the flip side, Atlanta, who was a team we were high on and then the over under got too high. And I think that scared all of us. It got to like 47 and a half. So this is one of those things where you can look at something on paper forever and then you have to actually see it on a basketball court. And I don't know, maybe I've seen too many games over the years, but I was immediately like, oh, no, because they're not going to be able to rebound House and forget about like the transition defense and some of the other issues in that game. But you have Porzingis. They started Porzingis. He's 25ft from the basket. You got Trey Young, you have Jalen Johnson, Daniels, some other shooter. No, there's no rebounder. And one of the things with Porzingis, when the Celtics would play him like Tatum, Tatum was, you know, one of the best 20 rebounders in the league. The team was a gang rebounding team. I really was worried about Atlanta after watching them. And maybe it's going to take a while for the pieces to. To fit together, but it was a team that didn't make sense to me as I watched it. Did you see?
- [61:23]
B
Did not make sense. And there are a couple culprits. The rebounding is. Is concerning.
- [61:29]
A
It.
- [61:29]
B
It could be Okongwu. He, like, that's his. His. His job. And Jalen and poor Zing has got seven. And, you know.
- [61:41]
A
They got dealt with on the boards, though.
- [61:43]
B
Here's the issue, man. Let me ask you the. I'll put it to you in the form of a question. Who do you think took the most field goals last night? Do you already know the answer?
- [61:52]
A
I don't. Who was it?
- [61:54]
B
Nikhil Alexander Walker took 15 field goal attempts last night. He was 2 for 15 from the field. What in the fuck is going on in Atlanta? Like, seriously, you built this team and had an idea for who you're going to put out there. How is he taking the most shots on the, on the team? How is that possible? In 26, 28 minutes, he took 15 field goal attempts. How, why, how does that make any sense?
- [62:28]
A
I don't like it. I'm not writing them off, but my blink test watching them was like, ah, I don't know. I don't know if this, these guys all make sense together. We'll see. But I was, I was, I definitely cooled on them a tiny bit, but they might, they can win me back in next week. And then Philly. I watched that entire game.
- [62:47]
B
I bet you did.
- [62:49]
A
It's. It's really interesting because Embiid just looks like he's done and who knows if it can come back, but he can't really jump anymore. He can't. You know, they, every time they really did well was when he wasn't out there, including the fourth quarter, they just didn't bring him back because he was on a quote unquote minutes limit. But the Maxi and BJ together was just the most electric. The VJ thing's unbelievable. The big, the big thing on him coming out of the draft was this guy's an incredible athlete. He can't finish. He has terrible finishing stats. Let me tell you, he finished the fuck out of the Celtic game. He's finishing everything. And he was competitive and he's got a swagger to him. And him and Max are together. That's the future of that team. The Sixers fans should be over the moon about this. They're going to, you know, the Embiid thing, the extension. Disaster, George disaster. But all of it led to them getting the third pick in the draft and getting rejuvenated with this guy who looks like 2005 Dwyane Wade.
- [63:44]
B
I mean, it's stunning. It's stunning. Let's just leave it.
- [63:49]
A
That was. Other than Wemby, it was the most stunning thing of the week.
- [63:52]
B
The confidence, he game speed. He was there for all of it. The basketball IQ is off the effing charts.
- [64:04]
A
He moves when he doesn't have the ball. If he's in the corner. He's my favorite kind of guy where he's still thinking of stuff to do even if he's not involved in the play. It's like, oh, can I back cut? Ooh, can I Get an offensive rebound. Oh, can I come flying in for a jam? He's up to stuff all the time.
- [64:22]
B
How many phone calls do you think Daryl in the second half was making? Like, hey, we know that, that Paul George contract, we know that, you know that we the extra year but let's figure out a way like how many.
- [64:34]
A
Oh, I thought you were saying Dara was calling his wife being like, I have good news. I'm going to be keeping my job for the next few years because BJH comes. Fucking awesome.
- [64:44]
B
Well that and also they need to get Paul George off that team, away from this team as quickly as possible. There is, there is, it's a, I.
- [64:53]
A
Don'T know how they're going to do that.
- [64:54]
B
It's a zero proposition, zero sum.
- [64:57]
A
Also, like we talked about leap guys when we did the over unders and I think I'd like to, I'd like to belatedly include Maxi in that combo.
- [65:08]
B
He deserves it. Oh, does he deserve it?
- [65:11]
A
He was, he was downhill constantly. And I thought the Celtics, they didn't shoot well, but they played really hard and the reason they lost was because they weren't making threes. And then ironically Keda fouled out and Luca Garza had, was in concussion protocol, so they had to play Xavier Tillman in the last two minutes of the game and he missed the big shot. But the, the VJ and Maxi thing. Attack, attack, attack, attack. And Embiid just doesn't fit in with it. So I don't know what they do.
- [65:44]
B
Just play him the 20 minutes. It's totally fine. He's a role player.
- [65:48]
A
He's going to be miserable.
- [65:49]
B
He'll make everyone who cares. No, he, that we're, we're, if, if, if he, if they permit that to happen, then, then we'll know for sure. Then, then we'll be having podcasts with Daryl.
- [66:01]
A
How about LeBron for Embiid right now? Who's, oh, you paused.
- [66:06]
B
Well, the Lakers have to say no, no, no. Like he's a 20 minute player who, you know, should be able to get you a handful of rebounds and I like him beat.
- [66:19]
A
I hope it comes back, but it doesn't seem like his right leg works anymore.
- [66:22]
B
He's, I, I, I don't say this with any joy. This is end of career Greg Odin. Shit. This is what Greg Odin looked like after, you know, the last series of surgeries that he had. And he tried one last time to come back. That's what Embiid looks like to me.
- [66:40]
A
I hope he can come back it.
- [66:42]
B
Did not look good last year.
- [66:44]
A
It's bad for Philly that it's like we have to keep him out of the game if we want to win. Water treaders. Boston, Memphis, Miami and Indiana. We don't need to talk about them. League pass all stars. Next category.
- [66:54]
B
People in Memphis are going to be mad that we, that we're just skipping over them.
- [66:57]
A
Well, they had 40 injuries already and, and they won the first game just because John Moran was awesome. 30 to 45 games a year.
- [67:05]
B
They handle their at home against New Orleans and New Orleans jump out to a lead. I mean, you know, but look at.
- [67:11]
A
The, look at the group though. Boston, Memphis, Miami, Indiana, they're treading water waiting to see who they're going to be. I think that my Memphis is fair. League pass all stars. Charlotte, New Orleans and Chicago. New Orleans, I think Zion looked really good and they have fun players in that team and I just think they're going to be a fun team to watch. Chicago, same thing because of the pace. And then Charlotte was a revelation. I like Kalk Brenner. I'm just going on the record.
- [67:35]
B
Sure.
- [67:35]
A
I think He's a real NBA player.
- [67:37]
B
I agree with you.
- [67:37]
A
He's a 30 minute a game big guy.
- [67:38]
B
I agree.
- [67:39]
A
I mean we went into the season going like Charlotte doesn't have big guys. They're not going to be. But they, they have multiple guards.
- [67:46]
B
It was against Brooklyn to be fair. But yes.
- [67:49]
A
Well, they were playing a G league team.
- [67:50]
B
Yes, they were.
- [67:52]
A
But they have like semi competent big guys and then caniple and I just like them. Next category. Wait, where's our coach? That's Portland. The next category is why are we here? Phoenix and Sacramento. What a battle that was.
- [68:05]
B
Show disrespect to feed to Phoenix. This is going to be an ongoing theme. I honestly kind of like directionally what Phoenix. This is at least a team that, that makes a little bit of sense.
- [68:19]
A
More sense than last year.
- [68:20]
B
Makes more sense than last year. And I honestly think the good people of Phoenix deserve after that hot turd. They were served for an entire season last year of unmet expectations and guys that didn't like playing with each other. I think this team does like play. I like what I'm seeing out of them thus far. One game in. I'll just leave it at that.
- [68:40]
A
Well, I have them as either the 4th or 5th worst basketball team in the league.
- [68:44]
B
That's fine.
- [68:45]
A
And the other team that they were battling with was Sacramento, who that game came down to the last minute.
- [68:49]
B
It did.
- [68:49]
A
Last category. Is dumping for Darren Utah, Washington and Brooklyn. Utah's the best of the three. Darren is the best. Darren Peterson on what do you think.
- [68:57]
B
If Utah really tried? What do you. How many games do you think they could win if they competed?
- [69:02]
A
High twenties?
- [69:03]
B
Okay, I was going to say low thirties, so I'm glad we're on the same page.
- [69:06]
A
All right, that segment was way longer than I expected. We're going to take a break and then do Ringer 107.
- [69:10]
B
It's just the NBA. What do you want us to do?
- [69:12]
A
This episode is brought to you by Prime Video. Thursday Night Football is on and it's only on Prime Video. This week, the Minnesota Vikings head west to face the Los Angeles Chargers. Holy mackerel. That's a good matchup. I think both of these teams are good. Could be a little Herbert MVP stuff going as well. Coverage begins at 7pm Eastern with football's best party, TNF Tonight presented by Verizon. Could Herbert be chest pumping Ryan Fitzpatrick at the end of the game afterwards with no shirt on? We'll see. Not a Prime member. Not a problem. Simply sign up for a 30 day free trial. It's the Vikings and chargers Thursday at 7pm Eastern only on Prime Video. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com amazonprime for details. This episode is brought to you by Viori. Look, I'm not a big let's hype up workout clothes guy, but Vuori, I gotta say, total game changer. Been wearing a lot. If you see me power walking around Los Angeles, probably gonna see me wearing some Vuori Sunday performance joggers that they have. It's made with four way performance stretch fabric, one of the most comfortable things you own. You will wear them everywhere, I promise. All you have to do is go to Vuori.com Simmons and you get 20% off your first purchase with Vuori. V U O-R-I.com Simmons enjoy. Free shipping on all US orders over $75 plus free returns. Exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. All right, House Ringer 107. We went three and two last week. Felt like four and one was in play and we couldn't pull it off. We were one game under 500, but we've been slowly clawing back and it's a bi week week this week. These are the dangerous weeks when you can't find five games but you still have to do the five games. I'd like to request that we stay away from Eagles, Giants and Chiefs Washington with higher lines. I just want no part of that Eagles, Giants game. I want no part of the Chiefs. You know, favored by nine and a half against your team with Mariota.
- [71:08]
B
Is it only nine and a half?
- [71:11]
A
Is it higher than that?
- [71:12]
B
I thought it was much higher.
- [71:13]
A
Maybe it's higher. Regardless, we're staying away. Okay, I have three maybes for you. Jets, Bengals, jets are favored by. Our jets are getting six and a half in Cincinnati. I don't want to bet this game. I really don't. Jets 27th, DVOA, Cincinnati 29th. But the line is so high, it's like trying to sucker you into betting the Jets.
- [71:36]
B
Begging you to take the Jets.
- [71:38]
A
The Bengals should just be favored by three. We'll give you three and a half extra points to take the Jets.
- [71:43]
B
You're supposed to take the Jets. You're supposed to do it.
- [71:46]
A
It seems like it's a criterion. Criterion collection had this 50% off flash sale.
- [71:50]
B
It's.
- [71:51]
A
It's all the Blu Rays I want. And I was like, all right, I'll look anyway. It's like this is a flash sale of three and a half extra points.
- [71:58]
B
It's tyrod too, right?
- [72:00]
A
We think staying away. Okay, I'm not betting on the Jets. We bet on the jets in week two. It just sucks.
- [72:05]
B
It does suck.
- [72:08]
A
Falcons, Dolphins. Falcons minus seven and a half. I have this as it may be only because you have The Atlanta offense fourth against the run. Miami's defense 32nd against the run. They didn't fire Mike McDaniel last week. Atlanta's defense is first against the pass, seventh yard per play. Miami's offense pretty much terrible across the board. Coming off one of the worst games we've seen anyone play in the last couple years. Falcons minus seven and a half. The hook scares me a little.
- [72:39]
B
Not me. Gotta play Falcons. This is Falcons at home. The only thing I wondered about was Pennix.
- [72:45]
A
Right. So you want me to move this up?
- [72:46]
B
Yeah, he, he. Somebody rolled up on him. There was like an ankle kind of thing and he didn't practice. They had their walk through on Wednesday. He did do limited practice taping this.
- [72:56]
A
The good thing is they have a $40 million backup.
- [72:58]
B
Well, here's the thing I was wondering about. Now we're gonna play it at seven and a half. We don't, we, we can't get out of that.
- [73:04]
A
This is gonna be your pick.
- [73:06]
B
I'm definitely, I mean, as long as Miami. The Miami Dolphins put to out on the football field as their starting quarterback and their head coaches, Mike McDaniel. You must bet the other side of it. I don't even know what the number is. That would scare me off. It ain't this. It's not seven and a half in Atlanta. We think Atlanta is good. When they play at home, we think their defense is good.
- [73:28]
A
This is. This is something we've been on for the last couple of weeks. Teams you. You're only allowed to bet on at home because there's another one coming up, right?
- [73:34]
B
Yeah.
- [73:35]
A
I like Atlanta as a home team.
- [73:36]
B
Me, too. Yeah, I think they roll, I think they smash. And I hope Miami continues to just bring tua and Mike McDaniel out week after week so we can keep betting the other side.
- [73:47]
A
I can't believe Mike McDaniel's come back. All right, I moved that into the maybe, into the yes category. Last one in the maybes was Saints. Bucks. Saints plus four and a half at home against Tampa. I like the Saints at home a little more than anywhere else.
- [74:03]
B
Learned my lesson last week.
- [74:05]
A
New Orleans. Well, last week we. We kind of fucked that up. That was your pick. But I. I supported it. And a lot of the reasons we took Miami, I went against Miami and Cleveland, bad weather, blah, blah, blah. And then New Orleans is playing outdoors in bad weather and we have New Orleans.
- [74:21]
B
Yeah. Wrong.
- [74:22]
A
And yet Chicago still was, like, dying to let them hang around in that game.
- [74:26]
B
Literally. The freaking hook and ladder that the guy threw a forward pass on. It was about to be a game. Potential game altering the trajectory. Game was in doubt. Rattler put the ball. Gave the ball away too many times. I don't want to talk about it.
- [74:44]
A
So New New Orleans at home lost. Came back against Arizona and San Francisco and almost won, but lost. They beat the Giants at home and they lost to the Pats at home in a game that the refs tried to steal from the pats. They're only averaging 18 a game. I don't know who's playing for the Bucks. My instinct leans toward the Saints, but I don't really want to have them again. I didn't enjoy it last week. I don't know how long is Rattler going to be the starter? Are they going to start tanking soon? There's a tanking strategy for them. So let's stay away. All right.
- [75:16]
B
Yeah, we. We dabbled with the Saints. That. That's enough.
- [75:18]
A
It's like, you know, like there's a parlay possibility. House.
- [75:23]
B
Yeah.
- [75:24]
A
We have the Colts minus 14 half against the Titans. We can use their money line or some sort of version of it because they're going to kill the Titans.
- [75:31]
B
Could also just lay the points could.
- [75:33]
A
Also lay the points. Patriots against the Browns. Pat's minus seven. Cleveland's offense is just horrible. 28th rush, 30th pass, 27 first downs. I know their defense is good, but I do think the Pats defense, this is a perfect game for them because they're really good at stopping the run. Yeah, you can throw in them a little bit. But Cleveland has Dylan Gabriel.
- [75:59]
B
Right.
- [76:00]
A
This New England fan base is so fired up by this Patriots team. They haven't had like a kick ass home game yet. They had that the Carolina game. It was like in doubt for an hour and then they came back and won. But I think this could be the kick ass game.
- [76:13]
B
Can I.
- [76:14]
A
Once you go up 13, the game's over.
- [76:16]
B
I totally agree with this. The only modest proposal I would like to make as we think about the idea of a parlay, a moneyline parlay here is I honestly would rather because we don't have a lot of choices on the card this week. Use the Colts, let the Colts lay the points with the Colts and use the Chiefs. Parlay the Chiefs and the Patriots.
- [76:40]
A
We might have enough though because. Well, the other one I was going to throw in was the Ravens against the Bears at home.
- [76:46]
B
That one. You know where I'm coming from on this?
- [76:49]
A
Ravens.
- [76:50]
B
Not only that, like, can I borrow some money from. From somebody?
- [76:54]
A
Yeah. This is the first playoff game of the year with the Ravens. This is kitchen sink. We have to win. We have Caleb. I made this prediction on Tuesday's pod. We did one crazy prediction. Me and the fantasy guys that Tyson Bagen as the starter for the bears by week 13. Caleb was not good in that New Orleans game.
- [77:12]
B
Wow. He was not.
- [77:13]
A
But. But parlay of Ravens, Patriots and Colts minus 1.5 gets us under the minus 1 20. Pat's to win. Ravens to win. Colts win by two. It's minus 117 on FanDuel and we can do that and win.
- [77:32]
B
Well, what are the remainder games? What are the games are we betting?
- [77:35]
A
I just putting that in.
- [77:36]
B
Okay.
- [77:37]
A
I mean I'm just. That might be one of my picks. All right, here are the possibles. Texans minus one and a half against the 49ers. Houston's two and four. Four of those games were on the road. Their next three are at home. They're eighth in Dboa. Somehow coming off their defense is awesome. Coming off this ugly Seattle game right where they couldn't block and they. But guess what? Seattle has an awesome defense and they were home and it was a Monday night and they were Maniacs. The whole game. I'm in on Houston's defense. I thought that, like, talk about hats on the ballhouse. It was one of those eight guys tackling every Seattle guy. They even got a penalty because they had too many guys continuing to tackle somebody. Their defense, third in DVOA, it's only given up 14.7 points a game. They're going against Mac Jones. They're going against the San Francisco team that was able to scotch tape a defense last week and do a bunch of shit that now you can just watch the tape and be like, oh, they're doing this. Let's do this. Instead of, they're going to have no pass rush. I don't care if Nico Collins plays or not. I think Stroud, with actual time to throw will be okay. And it's Texans minus one and a half. I love the Texans in this spot.
- [78:50]
B
So I, I just was scared of this game because I have been on the wrong side of Shanahan and the 49ers too many times this season. Like, they just keep. We keep saying, here's the thing.
- [79:02]
A
They're. They're five and two house.
- [79:04]
B
We just keep saying, here's the point where. Where it flips for them defensively. Here. The, the, you know, Bosa, they can't get any pressure on.
- [79:11]
A
But we had them last week. We took them Sunday night.
- [79:14]
B
It was. And it was the correct play.
- [79:16]
A
Right.
- [79:16]
B
I know, but I'm just saying, like.
- [79:19]
A
You know, this is just like, I just want to bet the Houston defense in this game. Houston defense against Mac Jones for the contest we have. Yeah.
- [79:31]
B
It's your pick. I. I'm lukewarm on it.
- [79:34]
A
You're lukewarm? Yeah. Okay. I like it. I don't think Houston's going 2 and 5. I like, if they lose this game, their season's over. This is a kitchen sinking for them.
- [79:47]
B
I want to see, like, one great quarter of offense when it's not against the Titans.
- [79:53]
A
Counter. This is a classic. Niners look probably better than they are on Sunday night.
- [79:59]
B
Okay.
- [79:59]
A
Houston looked worse than they are in a bad situation for the team they have on a Monday night.
- [80:04]
B
Okay.
- [80:04]
A
And this line should probably be two and a half or higher because they're.
- [80:07]
B
Doing two and a half now. For the purposes of our contest, we got it at one and a half. It's published at one and a half. We're playing at one and a half. The public is going to have to ride the market.
- [80:20]
A
I want to make sure. So it's definitely. I want to make sure we don't cheat.
- [80:24]
B
No, it's two and a half right now, but I believe for one and.
- [80:26]
A
A half, yeah, we have it at one and a half.
- [80:28]
B
I know, I know. It's locked at one and a half for the purposes of the contest.
- [80:32]
A
Next one. I want you to talk me out of this because I like it. Panthers plus seven and a half at home against Buffalo. We talked about Carolina at home, how they're a different team. Dalton, Bryce, Young, I don't think it matters. Carolina's third rushing attack this year. Third in rush yards. Buffalo 31st against the run. They are getting their two suspended D linemen back. Carolina's D is not terrible. Fifteenth DVOA, eighth against the rush. It is betting. It's Josh Allen. Josh Allen against bad teams has been money. But the seven and a half, like even that's, that's like a cheap touchdown late.
- [81:10]
B
We can't do it.
- [81:11]
A
I'll take me out of it.
- [81:13]
B
I'll take the L. Here's why. The Bills lost two games in a row and then had a buy and.
- [81:21]
A
They have Josh come off the buy.
- [81:22]
B
With Josh Allen and lose another game. They're going to lose to the Patriots.
- [81:28]
A
Should be four and a half.
- [81:29]
B
They're going to lose to the Patriots, the Falcons and the Panthers. Okay. I mean we're talking about the fact that the line still has some inflation in it. Like we're not giving Carolina. No question that, that I agree with with all of that. Seven and a half though, it's still in this modern NFL era, a one score game at seven and a half.
- [81:53]
A
I don't know, I might make it one of my picks. I also don't mind the plus 310 for them. Oh, for the actual money line, which we're not doing in these contests. But the case for Buffalo is couple losses by week, getting the guys back on D. Yes, we're going to show everybody our defense is actually back. And that's what my fear is with this is. You're like, oh my God, why do we bet against Josh Allen? The seven half is high.
- [82:20]
B
They can get rolling though. That's the problem. We thought that that might happen in that Atlanta game, but Atlanta really had a great pass rush at home and a very good game plan and they just ran the ball. Ran the ball, ran the ball. Ken Carolina.
- [82:36]
A
Here's the other case for this. They had the Chiefs next week, Buffalo. So is this a Milton burrow pull out enough to win?
- [82:43]
B
Get in, get out.
- [82:44]
A
Let's not do too much. Let's not get anyone hurt.
- [82:47]
B
They could be up 14 in the fourth quarter.
- [82:50]
A
That's what I. That's why the seven and a half is huge.
- [82:52]
B
Yeah. All right.
- [82:54]
A
Mark it down. Cowboys plus three and a half at Denver. All the advanced stats say Dallas is a better team. They're ninth in DVOA, Denver's 14th. Dallas's offense, top four, second in yards per play. Denver's defense, first in yards per play, which is good. But the question for me is the Cowboys, I just think, are going to score every week against whoever. Right. Can Denver match points with them? I think this line's just too high. I think they get in the hook. I feel like this should be like Broncos one and a half. I think these teams might be even. I've been really impressed by Dallas, I think. As have I. I think they're well coached.
- [83:36]
B
I. I said out loud on. On many programs last week that I didn't think that Washington. I had to puff my chest out because it was. It was Dallas week. But, yeah, it was fraught. That was a fraught.
- [83:48]
A
That was our big miss last week. Not taking Dallas. That was that big Sunday. That would have been.
- [83:52]
B
That was a big mess.
- [83:53]
A
That was bet and I loved it.
- [83:55]
B
I bet it as well.
- [83:57]
A
So if Dallas wins this. If Dallas can somehow win this in Denver Cardinals next week, bye week, and then they're at Vegas on Monday Night Football. Like there's actually a path for them to be a playoff team. But I think they need this game.
- [84:10]
B
Why did they get blown out by the Bears?
- [84:14]
A
CD Lamb got hurt.
- [84:15]
B
Okay. And then couple coverage breakdowns. They just couldn't adjust on the fly quickly enough. They just couldn't.
- [84:21]
A
Why did the Patriots lose to the Raiders?
- [84:24]
B
First game of the season. That's all.
- [84:26]
A
Yeah. With the first three weeks of the year, do we just, you know, Green Bay killed the trait. Would that happen now?
- [84:36]
B
No.
- [84:36]
A
I don't know.
- [84:37]
B
I don't think so. All right.
- [84:39]
A
Cowboys plus three and a half. We're marking this down. I. The Bo Nicks thing. He just can't. It takes him two hours to be decent.
- [84:47]
B
I'm. You're not going to.
- [84:49]
A
You're not.
- [84:50]
B
I don't know the circumstance. There will be a circumstance where I'm comfortable. They're laying less than a field goal. Maybe against. I don't. I'm not sure who. Who the opponent has to be. No, sir. And I. Look, I asked him to shove it in my face against the Eagles, and he did it right. He led them to 18 points in the fourth quarter against the Eagles on the road in Philly.
- [85:11]
A
And Dak against a really good Denver defense, which I think he can throw on. But Dak's just been one of the best four players in the league this year. He can throw us plus three and a half. We'll mark that down. Packers, Steelers. Packers favored by three in Pittsburgh. And normally you would say, oh, Pittsburgh, Tomlin, home. It's a smash spot. Can I make a Packers case for you?
- [85:40]
B
I'm going to listen while I look something up here real quick.
- [85:45]
A
You seem like you've lost interest in the.
- [85:47]
B
No, I'm looking. I thought it was three and a half.
- [85:50]
A
No, for our contest.
- [85:51]
B
Oh, it's three.
- [85:52]
A
Yeah.
- [85:54]
B
Minus 120. Look at how they price that thing.
- [85:56]
A
I know. Sunday night game. If this was a Sunday 1pm game, I'd be afraid to take Green Bay. Sunday night game. The lights are on. And I do think this team has. The lights are on. They have that side to them. DVOA, Green Bay 6. Pittsburgh's 10th. Pittsburgh's defense, 31st against the pass, 31st against first downs, 25th on third down. And if you look at their wins, barely beat The Jets Week 1. Field's last great game ever.
- [86:25]
B
Probably ever.
- [86:26]
A
They beat the Pats because the Pats turned the ball over five fucking times and fumbled on the goal line and threw a goal line pick. They beat Minnesota by three points in Ireland with Carson Wentz. And they beat Cleveland, who sucks. Well, those are their four wins.
- [86:40]
B
It was Cleveland coming off their international game with Dylan Gabriel, who, you know.
- [86:47]
A
Yeah, all they did was then they lost to Joe flacco last week, 26th against the run, Green Bay second against the run, their defense. So I don't think they're gonna be able to run the ball. So this would have to be an Aaron Rodgers beats us game. And granted, going against Green Bay, but this just feels like a square. Oh, Steelers Tomlin at home, Rogers revenge game. And it's like, how about this? We thought the packers were a potential super bowl team before the year. Like, you win this game if you're going to the super bowl, that would be the case.
- [87:22]
B
I don't have the time to go look and see what it opened at. It was three and a half for quite a bit of this week. And I thought it was a great Steelers situation. Yeah, the three is not a great number.
- [87:38]
A
I don't love packers minus three.
- [87:41]
B
Yeah, I don't.
- [87:41]
A
What are you worried about the push?
- [87:43]
B
Well, no, I. I just mean from the Steelers perspective. I like it much better with Them, you know, dog fight with. With the hook.
- [87:52]
A
Yeah. But I want to take the Packers.
- [87:53]
B
I understand that. That's. This is what I'm. I'm. I had a case prepared for the Steelers.
- [87:58]
A
With the hook.
- [87:59]
B
With the hook. Yes. Yeah, the hook feels pretty vital to me because, look, here's the thing that Pittsburgh has been unable to address all season long. They give up explosives. Like, you know, like, it's Pookie and Black Tony giving out, you know, injury advice before. Before a Trailblazers game. I mean, they just can't wait to let somebody throw the football down the field. And that is one thing for sure that Jordan Love can do. It's one thing for sure that the packers can do. They could throw the football down the football field.
- [88:36]
A
So I also, you know, they. They've definitely been spotty the last few weeks. There's no question. Right. And they've had, like, Jacobs losing 100% Jordan Love.
- [88:44]
B
They.
- [88:44]
A
The. The pace of their. They had that terrible Cleveland game. Just terrible.
- [88:49]
B
I like this zag. You know what you're. I'm. I'm. I'm feeling his ag. I'm feeling it.
- [88:53]
A
You're getting like a Sunday night. The Packers. I just. It's a narrative game where we come out of that game, we're like, oh, the Packers. Maybe they are. Yeah.
- [89:00]
B
Because everybody was ready to write off the packers after. They look so dominant the first two weeks. And then they showed some inconsistency. The Dallas tie, not looking very Dallas tie.
- [89:11]
A
Were. Dak was just unbelievable in that game. The reason they tied, they scored 40 points. So why wouldn't they score 40 points against Pittsburgh?
- [89:19]
B
You know, I'm. I'm here. I'm here. I'm. I like this. Let's do this. Yeah, I like this.
- [89:25]
A
So we're looking at. I think we have our five then. That was easy. On a short week, we somehow have five picks. Apologies to the Panthers, they didn't make the cut. This episode is brought to you by Quo. Let's be honest. Traditional phone systems weren't built for today's businesses. Quo, formerly OpenPhone, is the number one business phone system for customer communications. It unifies customer calls, texts, and voicemail in one app for real time. Team collaboration. Quo logs, calls, captures, notes, and it's AI agent answers after hours. So you never miss an opportunity. Get started free. Plus get 20% off your first six months at Quo. That is Q-U-O.com bill. They'll even port your existing numbers for free. Quo. No missed calls, no missed customers. This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market. Whether it's a game day or backyard fire pit or simply to enjoy delicious food with the people you love, Whole Foods Market has got you find great everyday prices on 365 brand favorites like organic tortilla chips and salsa, plus apple cider sandwich cookies. Yum. And right now you can save 50%. That's right, 50%. With prime on select frozen pizzas through October 28th. Visit your local Whole Foods Market today and store online. Terms apply. All right, house, here we go. Today's Ringer 107, the BS House Edition is brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook. We are one game under.500 for this season. We are 16 and 17 and we were 0 and 7 in games that could have gone either way or something weird happened the last three minutes. And then we finally had some luck on Sunday with the Minnesota Vikings where we did. We had them in a, in a parlay. They were what, plus seven and a half.
- [91:13]
B
Plus seven and a half.
- [91:15]
A
They're down six Eagles get this long played AJ Brown and it's like, oh my God, they're going to get a field goal. We're going to get screwed again. And they do some wacky time thing where they run out the clock and they don't have the field goal. Yeah, it's the first time anything's gone our way in a stupid situation like that. So that makes me feel good. First one, we're going to do your pick, the Falcons just to blow out the Dolphins. Falcons minus seven half at home. We love the Falcons as a home team.
- [91:42]
B
Sure do.
- [91:43]
A
We just feel like at this point to be able to bet against Tua and Mike McDaniel. Much like watching Victor Wembediama right now a privilege.
- [91:49]
B
I mean, we can go X's and O's. We can talk about how dominant the Falcons rush attack has been, how, how incredible Bijan has been, how destitute the the Dolphins run defenses, how the Dolphins offensive line is an abomination and the pressure that the Falcons can bring.
- [92:08]
A
They can't stop the run.
- [92:09]
B
We can do all those things, but we don't really need to. You just have to look at Mixtape Mike one time take a snapshot of that dude at his press conference and be like, I'm betting against that guy.
- [92:19]
A
This is the I wish I wasn't going against Bijan Robinson fantasy week. Falcons minus seven half. That's our first one. They should be able to hopefully run it up. We like the Falcons as home team next one Texans minus one and a half at home against 49ers. This is a bet on the Houston defense in a kitchen sink situation. Going against Mac Jones and Niners defense. That's just scotch tape, duct tape and glue and thumbtacks.
- [92:46]
B
I just want to say I respect San Francisco. I'm hoping that the football gods look favorably.
- [92:51]
A
How about this? They don't need the game.
- [92:52]
B
Okay.
- [92:53]
A
They're five and two. This is an AFC crossing. I get it.
- [92:56]
B
There are, that's a knockdown drag out that NFC West.
- [93:01]
A
I believe in that Houston defense. I thought what they did Monday night as their offensive line was just murdering them and Stroud was murdering them and their defense over and over again was like fine, we'll get the ball back again. Great. Cowboys plus three and a half against the Broncos is our next one. This is in Denver. This is, we think these teams are pretty even. Dak is a top three or top four guy in the league. And if it's a shootout or a back and forth with Bo Nix, I'd like to have my money on Dak. I also think there's backdoor potential even if they're down 10 late of them scoring again. And we both like this Cowboys team.
- [93:35]
B
We do. Yeah. I, I, I'm just, you know, once again in a position where Bo Nicks might shove it right in my face.
- [93:43]
A
Just saying as we're doing Ringer 107. The Vikings are down by 21 to the Chargers and that was a potential playoff. You know, competitor for the, for Dallas to get that six seater, seven seeds. So you can shove the Vikings out of there. You get Caleb to self combust with the Bears.
- [94:00]
B
It's going to be the Falcons and the Cowboys. Not even kidding.
- [94:02]
A
Yeah.
- [94:03]
B
Because Washington's out.
- [94:07]
A
Falcon. Oh, and then Packers, Steelers. This is a nice zag for us Sunday night. Steelers looking too obvious with Tomlin at home. Pittsburgh, Aaron Rodgers rejuvenation. But if you go through that Steelers schedule, the wins and some of the stats, it's, it's pretty grim. We think there's another level to this packers team and every week somebody goes up and people are like whoa, that team. And I think this is a whoa, that team. I like the Packers.
- [94:32]
B
I do like it.
- [94:33]
A
Packers minus three on the road Sunday night. Then last one a little parlay. Colts down to minus one and a half as they're blowing out Tennessee. We got that Pats just to win against Cleveland only win, just win by one. We're fine. And then the Ravens in the ultimate kitchen sink game. They cannot go one and six. They have to beat the Bears. We get to bet against a very shaky Caleb Williams against a Bears defense with some really good advanced stats going against them and more importantly on Lamar Jackson.
- [95:04]
B
Well, here's the thing for the, for the Ravens and I will separately be betting this, this will be my best bet and I don't really even care if ultimately Lamar doesn't end up playing. I mean, there he, he practiced his, you know, there, there is the hamstring thing. They are healthy for the first time on offense with Picard at fullback and likely at tight end. And here's the thing for everybody to do when you hear this, go as fast as you can and buy your Derek Henry. Their whole run Game is a 12 personnel run game where Picard and likely are goddamn dominant. Go get every Derrick Henry total now because It'll all be 7 yards higher. Get the number of touches, you know, attempts, all of it. Get all your Derrick Henry now. Anytime. Touchdown. The whole kit and caboodle because those prices are going to be through the roof by Sunday. I love the Ravens to absolutely smash the Bears this week.
- [96:04]
A
Ravens win, Pats win. Colts by minus one and a half over Tennessee minus 117. That's our last pick. Texans minus one and a half. Colt. Cowboys plus three and a half. Falcons minus seven. Packers minus three. That is the Ringer 107. It was brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook. Odd subject to change. House, we did it. We just cruised through a fucking shitload of stuff in an hour and a half. I'm proud of us.
- [96:28]
B
It's pretty good. I mean, Albany and Bruce thought that was a pretty goddamn good show.
- [96:37]
A
Gotta get his thoughts later. I'll see you at our illegal poker game today. Thanks for coming.
- [96:43]
B
Wait, let me borrow your contacts.
- [96:47]
A
All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to House. Thanks to Gahal and Eduardo as well. I will be back on Sunday with the cuz. Hopefully the Patriots will be 6 and 2. Hopefully we won't have any more legal NBA gambling scandal stuff. And I will see you on Sunday night. Lives with him must be 21 plus on President select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + on President D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gamble problem. Call 100 Gambler, visit rg-help.com, call 888-797-7777 or visit ccpg.orgchatinconnecticut or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 877-8-Hopeny or text hopeny in New York. This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. It's Cybersecurity Awareness Month, and LifeLock has tips to protect your identity Use strong passwords, set up multi factor authentication, report phishing and update the software on your devices. And for comprehensive identity protection, let LifeLock alert you to see suspicious uses of your personal information. Lifelock also fixes identity theft, guaranteed or your money back. Stay smart, safe and protected with a 30 day free trial@lifelock.com podcast terms apply.