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The Bill Simmons Podcast
Burning NBA Questions and a “Holy Crap, Charlotte!!!” Deep Dive With Zach Lowe
01:58:57
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- [00:00]
A
This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Imagine a game where you're on the court solo. No coach, no teammates, no one in the stands. Stressful, right? Sometimes life can feel like that too. That's when State Farm they show up. They're on the bench ready to help you find the right coverage when it matters most through an agent online or even on the app State Farm with the assist. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability and eligibility vary by state. This episode is brought to you by TaxAct. Like an expert coach, TaxAct offers step by step guidance and guaranteed accuracy when filing taxes. Get tips along the way. Add expert assist to talk to tax experts and let our experts do your taxes for you. With Expert full service, TaxAct helps you find the deductions and credits you deserve so you can get them over with. Visit taxact.com to learn more. Conditions apply. See taxact.com for details. It's the Bill Simmons Podcast. We are live Sunday night on Netflix. Zach Lowe is here on Netflix tomorrow. Zach Lowe, there's gonna be a live rewatchables because it's CR month. Chris Ryan finally got his own month. We're doing Sicario Live 6pm ET on Netflix. When you watch Sicario multiple times in the same weekend, it definitely sets the mood. I don't know what mood it is, but I was in a really frisky mood for the Sixers Celtics game. Turned out to be the Katie game. But I really just want to talk about the lady getting kicked in the head on the VJ Edgecombe play. It brings in a lot of courtside questions. The people that bring little 6 year old kids to sit courtside thinking nothing could ever happen. This to me is a PSA video now.
- [02:15]
B
I mean, it's crazy that someone got injured worse in this sideline incident than when the Hornets and the Pistons had a brawl that almost spilled into the second row of the stands. Everyone was fine and this poor lady, I think they said her name was Christine or something, got, I mean she got booted and she's sitting at the, she's still sitting there. She has. She's bleeding corsage like no, I'm good. Like I'm going to stay in the game. You got to admire it. But you got a head on a swivel at all times.
- [02:42]
A
She looked like one of like the Canadian Olympic hockey players just trying to make it to the handshake line. Huge bruise on the side of the face. I couldn't tell if she was looking at the play or if she was looking away and didn't see it. But then the foot ricocheted late, which I don't know how you could predict, but I've been saying this forever. For some reason, it took forever in baseball games with foul balls for us to get really concerned about people along the third base side, first base side with the line drives. Took a couple people just getting nailed to be like, oh, we should probably put a net up. I still feel like with courtside, we're just playing with fire. Cause you can go to any game and you can see who's sitting there. And there's always one person who's too old and one person who's too young sit in those seats. And it's always in that area, like Right. Three point line extended, where people are trying to either like running out or they're trying to save a loose ball and they just go flying in there full speed.
- [03:37]
B
Yeah. The baseline seats are far enough back. Those are your safest courtside seats, the sideline seats. You're on the floor and you're right. It could happen at any moment. And you got to be, you got to be ready. I, I've always been a hardliner about baseball in the cell phone age or even the pre cell phone age. If you get hit cause you, you're not paying attention.
- [03:56]
A
Right.
- [03:57]
B
I don't, I mean, if you suffer some sort of traumatic brain injury, I'll feel bad for you. But you're at the game. The tickets say it on the back. Yeah. Pay attention, pay attention. I'm teaching my daughter that now. And she's a product of like the TikTok cell phone age. Like you. She doesn't have a phone yet. But if we're going to go to baseball games, you got, you got to be ready at all times.
- [04:15]
A
You can see it when you go to baseball games. Just look around in like the fourth inning and see how many people are like this. Which is basically why they had to put the nets up. Sixers, Celtics. I just want to say these NBC Sunday night games, I think have accomplished their early objective, which is to make it feel like a bigger game. Right. They show the pregame warmups. They have Lenny Kravitz, they have the John Tesh song. The studio, the crew is there on the court. And it does feel like a bigger game. I do like what they've done and I think it was a good idea. So that's one of the few nice things I'll say about all the weird network schedule stuff we have, because I never know what channel is on what game? At any time. Just when I was getting used to the Fridays that flipped and now it's like ESPN's on Friday. I never know where the games are, but I do like this.
- [05:06]
B
Somehow the ratings are skyrocketing up even though people say they can't find where the game is. I don't even know how we measure ratings really anymore. But I agree with you. The Sunday night NBC stuff is good. The song, it's always good to hear. Round Ball Rock. I like Tesha's appearance at the All Star game. He was bouncing, bouncing the fake ball in tune with the, with the drum line.
- [05:24]
A
That was great.
- [05:25]
B
And yeah, it felt like a big game tonight.
- [05:28]
A
Yeah. We didn't get Embiid.
- [05:29]
B
No.
- [05:30]
A
Tatum. It feels like it's going to be Friday, Dallas. Okay, that's. That's what all signs are pointing to. Friday, Dallas. I was wondering if it would be this weekend, but by Friday. I think it was not going to be this weekend.
- [05:46]
B
That's an NBC game as well, is it not?
- [05:49]
A
Might be.
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B
I think they were talking about that game at the end and obviously they have this Tatum rehab stock you thing they're doing.
- [05:57]
A
I have a couple more notes from this game. VJ Max. I'm just automatic veto. I don't like it.
- [06:02]
B
Thank you. I thought I was the only one.
- [06:04]
A
It's bad.
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B
I hated it from the beginning and I sabotaged probably any deal will ever get from TJ Maxx. Because I hate it. Because I hate going into TJ Maxx. It's if you. I say this all the time. If you want to buy a lamp, a. A fake gold plated lamp in the shape of a cat. TJ Maxx has you covered. If you want to buy something useful. TJ Maxx is not for you.
- [06:28]
A
I did a whole thing. Kellerman was on my pod Thursday and I had a mailbag question about. About nicknames which really peaked in the 70s, 80s and maybe even early 90s. And now we're just flailing and we use initials and acronyms for the most part. And then occasionally when people try to push something, it's something just hacky like VJ Max. I just think
- [06:51]
B
this is making me feel so much better because the NBC people say, well, I like VJ Max. That's a good one. It is. So I guess I'm the only one.
- [06:58]
A
No, I'm not.
- [06:59]
B
I'm not the only one. You're never alone.
- [07:02]
A
Usually the group player kind of nickname things TMC with the warriors in the early 90s, that worked. But it was also the first initial of each guy's name. And it was kind of organic, and I liked it. The Js, I think, even though it's not technically a nickname. But Jalen and Jason calling the Jays. I'm not calling VJ Max. VJ Max ever. No.
- [07:24]
B
I feel stupid saying it. Can I just give you my favorite nickname of all time in the history of sports, Team or player. It trumps all categories.
- [07:32]
A
What is it?
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B
This is going to be right up your alley. Phi Slam a Jama. It's the best. It's number one on the nickname scale.
- [07:39]
A
Yeah. And think about that. That was like 43 years ago. We really peaked. We were just better at nicknames way back when, which is what I was talking to Max about. When we had the Clyde, the Glide and those kind of names, we were just. We just had it all figured out. I don't know what happened. This was the Keda game.
- [07:54]
B
I know.
- [07:55]
A
Ironic, because my dad took my daughter and my daughter has been the biggest Keda fan for to his entire Celtic career because knows enough about basketball to follow what's going on, but not enough about basketball to understand the league and how the players and who's worth what. And she's been asking for three years, why don't they play Keda? Isn't that. Doesn't he have everything that a center would have? So when he kind of took off this year for the Celtics, she was like. I was telling you, it was like her one. She sounds like me taking credit.
- [08:24]
B
What a win for Zoe Simmons.
- [08:26]
A
So Zoe Simmons is there today with the hat on, thinking there might be a dark chance. Tatum comes out of the tunnel because that's her favorite player. But then our other favorite part, Keda, became the Keda game. And this was the 39th pick in the 2001 draft by your. Your favorite, the Sacramento Kings. They did it again. They just had a prototypical center who is really good with his hands up, who's coordinated, who plays hard, who rebounds, who gets better basically every month. And they just like, we're good. Take a hike.
- [08:57]
B
Well, they found him again in Dylan Cardwell. We're doing Dylan Cardwell deep cuts that are already in the podcast. So hang on to Dylan Cardwell. Try Sacramento. I just. Just free advice. If you have a good player, try to keep the player on your team. It just. It's a free tip. Just try it. Try it out in this next era of Kings basketball.
- [09:18]
A
Well, that. So Keita as a playoff guy, which I don't. I just don't Think they counted on him like they do now. And you think about some of the teams that the Celtics are going to play in the playoffs, potentially bigger teams, guys like Durin, the guys the Knicks have Jaredown and Moby on the Cavs, like they're actually going to really, really need him. And you have this combined with the Tatum comeback, which I, I have like a stealth conspiracy that they're using Shireman as a Tatum proxy. Shireman's minutes are way up the last six weeks, and I feel like. And he's playing well and he's doing well on defense and they're using him a little like how they would use Tatum if his, if his legs were back. And some of the stuff they're running offensively and some of the ways they're using Shireman, I feel like, is what they're going to end up with Tatum specifically. They like having him in that left corner when Jalen and White are doing like the little at the top stuff. Katus sets a pick, somebody else comes, there's a little action, and Shireman's always open that left corner. And I feel like that's going to be a Tatum spot. I think they're going to be very careful with how they use him. Probably stagger the minutes with Jalen. But when you think about it, because we're close now, what does a Tatum comeback look like for you? What? Like give me your ceiling. Basement outcomes for this ceiling is he
- [10:39]
B
comes back, gets 10 to 12 games under his belt in a regular season. So the playoffs are not 0 to 100 right away, minutes wise. I don't know, let's just say 20 to 25 minutes. Let's be conservative and say he's not going to start playing 35 minutes a game even if he plays a decreased role compared to what he used to play. Let's say 20, 25 minutes. Not quite role player, but not Jason Tatum. And then you said it. When Jalen sits. They've been awesome, by the way, when Jalen is on the bench this whole season. They were awesome again today when Jalen Brown is on the bench. But they do lose. They become like almost a completely system team. And the system has worked really well. The high screens, all the different screen and roll combinations, the shooting all around it. But they do lose the bully ball if everything comes to a halt with five seconds left in the shot clock. Can we mismatch hunt? Can we do something? And he's just tall enough that even if he can't power his way to the rim, the way he peak Jayson Tatum does or blow by everybody the way he does. He can still be Jason Tatum and shoot over the 64 guard that switched onto him at the end of the shot clock. So. And that just makes your team better. It's just another guy slicing into. I mean it's hard to say like taking some of the Gonzalez minutes and the Hauser minutes and the Walsh minutes because all those guys are playing really well. But just Jayson Tatum taking a piece of each of those guys minutes and all the non jailer minutes. I just see no downside to it at all for them.
- [12:04]
A
We feel the same. I feel like it's going to be Scheireman the minutes that he takes.
- [12:08]
B
Yeah, either just throw him into the same bucket.
- [12:10]
A
Just saying. And he's not going to be worse than Shireman. I would say 18 and 24 minutes probably maybe you're looking at 9 minute stretches in each half or like 6 and 5 in each half or something like that. Shireman, his minutes per game in February was 24.3, which I thought was interesting because that's right around where I think Tatum's going to be. There's going to be, you know, Simons, they Simons was out. So some minutes got shared and then they have to figure out this Vucevich thing because you know he looked really awful in a couple of those road trip games. And then Friday against Brooklyn, who usually plays the Celtics. Well, just for the record. And the Celtics had one of the great offensive performances in the history of the sport. So that was interesting. But Vuch looked good in that game. Didn't look as good today. I just think at age 35, you're a longtime Vucevich watcher. Age 35, he's just going to be hit or miss. You're going to know probably in the second quarter each game. Oh, we getting him tonight? Oh, we're not. Okay, we'll do this instead.
- [13:10]
B
Well, I think, I think the KEDA discussion is really also about Vucovic in that this is an overdue and transition for him into a backup center role which he is fine for because there are just going to be some matchups where the A team offense on the other team is just too fast and too dynamic for him. But can you spot him 14 to 18 bench minutes when the best offensive player and other teams on on the floor and he can just bang on the glass and get rebounds and box out and Tonight was like 11 points, 12 rebounds like didn't kill you on defense. Not the most dynamic offensive team outside of Maxey and Edgecomb, which is a problem for him. But I think this is like, he was just overmatched as a starting center in his mid to late 30s, and this is a totally fine role for him. And they need. You mentioned all the Giants that they're
- [13:53]
A
going to go through.
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B
I really think those Detroit games, and particularly the one in Detroit where the Pistons kind of beat them up. Maybe it was in Boston, I can't remember. I think they've lost both in both places. I think those games really freaked the Celtics out a little bit. Like, oh my God, this, this team is A, for real and B, just massive and strong compared to us in a way that we are not quite built to play against.
- [14:15]
A
I agree. It's so funny that you can't really survive in the playoffs anymore unless you can have size.
- [14:22]
B
You need everything, man.
- [14:23]
A
You have no chance. You have okc, you have Denver, you have Minnesota. You have all the teams in the East. We mentioned you're not getting away with like the 2015 warriors type of, let's go small. We'll play like those days are over. This Tatum comeback, one thing that I haven't heard anyone talk about that I realized today, the rarity of somebody coming back this late in the season, that's also being counted on, on a team that has a chance to make the Finals. I went through all of history trying to figure out how many times this has happened. I really could only find Jordan with the baseball comeback in 95. Magic Johnson got hurt in 1981. He hurt his knee. He missed like 40 games. He missed over half the season. His second season, they came back, they lost in round one. And then Wilt Chamberlain only played 12 games in the regular season in the 69, 70. Came back for the playoffs in the Willis Reed playoffs. There might have been a couple others, but I really racked my brain. I couldn't. This is really unusual. Like, normally how it goes is Jamal Murray getting hurt, missing the rest of a season, coming back and just kind of not being ready in time for the playoffs and the team kind of punting on it. We've never really seen this. And I don't. It's one of the rare things in sports where I have no idea how it plays out. There's any set of alternatives for it. And I just don't know.
- [15:46]
B
I mean, there is. It could. It could not go well and they could decide midway through, like, we're actually going to cut your minutes. I don't suspect that's going to happen just because he's so good and he appears to be ready. Yeah, but anything could happen. There was the Jordan broken foot season too, but they weren't a contender.
- [16:02]
A
Yeah, they were like barely a playoff
- [16:04]
B
thing most of the time. Like I think back to KG in 2009 when there was this will he, won't he thing from that weird injury even. Like do you remember Jameer Nelson that same year got hurt in the playoffs and Ray for Austin started and it was like Willie Woney. That's usually what it is. And it is a trickier like reintegration process for those kinds of players. So yeah, this is, this is a weird one.
- [16:24]
A
Was Stodda. I can't remember Stoudemire 20 years ago in the 06 sons. I can't remember if he was lingering for a comeback or not too long
- [16:33]
B
ago, seven seconds or less. He did not come back. I don't believe in the playoffs he didn't come back.
- [16:37]
A
But I didn't know if it was like they were had their fingers crossed. Well, we'll see what happens. This is going to be very interesting Celtics week because they have Milwaukee tomorrow night and I think they're going to arrest everybody and hope Milwaukee has one of those just terrible Milwaukee games like they had today. Charlotte on Wednesday. Who we're going to talk about later, we're doing a Charlotte the deep dive. We did Kawhi last week. We're doing a deep dive on Charlotte this week. Friday, Dallas Cooper flag homecoming. The entire state of Maine is going to be there. Hopefully he plays and then I think they play against Sunday. I want to talk about Maxie Quick because I was thinking about him today. The best picks after pick 20, he's the 21st pick in 2020. How rare it is to get somebody that you've drafted for yourself who has a chance to be an all NBA guy, which I think we both think he's probably at least second team. Desmond Bayton in that same draft was 30. Brunson was 33 for Dallas, but ended up on the Knicks before he became a guy. Anunobi on Toronto 23 D. White was 29, Siakam 27. Then of course Jokic 41, Gobert 27, Draymond 35, Middleton 39 and Butler 30. Those are all the guys from the last 15 years that after pick 20 became guys and he has a chance to be a second team all NBA. The Sixers have loved them this whole time. But I just think what he's doing is really special this year. He's gonna. He's going to play the most minutes and the most games at the guard position in 10 years is what he's on pace. The last guy was James Harden. 82 games, 38.1 a game in 2016. Like, guards don't do this anymore. Play this many minutes, have this much of a burden, and they kind of rise and follow them. He wasn't very good tonight, but he kind of also kept them in it. And I just did. Did you ever think he would be this guy?
- [18:24]
B
No, no. I mean, I think he is going to make an all NBA team this year. I had him on third team when I just did my. My blink test. Look at the teams. It's. It's a crowded field, even with the health issues, but I think he should make an all NBA team. I don't think anyone thought he would be an all NBA player. That's why he was picked 21st. Remember, they only got him because Mike Muscala hit a bunch of shots in an Oklahoma City game that like flipped the pick to Philadelphia's way.
- [18:48]
A
No, I'm saying, like, after we knew he was good.
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B
Oh, I mean, did you think he
- [18:52]
A
was going to be this good? Because there became a point, especially when Harden was still there, it was like, wow, they really hit this maxi pick. He's good. Did you think he was going to be this good?
- [19:01]
B
Yeah, I can't say that I expected like 30 a game on good efficiency.
- [19:05]
A
Me neither.
- [19:05]
B
Like, I. And. And I think what. What proves that that was probably the consensus is he's been in the most improved player conversation for like the last four years. Like, every year people are like, again, like, I guess we got to put him up for this award again.
- [19:18]
A
Yeah, yeah, he's got. Some of the stuff he does is just so unique to him. Like, he's got a floater basically from the foul line that he shoots running straight like a shot put. I don't know anybody else who has that shot. The change of speed stuff he has, the teams are so terrified of him now. They get a defensive rebound and he has the ball in the backcourt. You could see it's almost like football. Like, when Tyreek kills in motion, you can see everybody kind of scrambling around, but he's a really special player. And they have this embiid. Embiid now has this oblique injury too. And Maxey's talked about his frustration with how they're basically these two separate teams. I think people are wondering, is this kind of like a playoff team you don't want to see in the playoffs? When they get Paul George back and Embiid, I think the style thing's going to kill them ultimately in a series because I don't think they know who they are. But long term, as a combo, this we don't call them vj Max, Edgecomb and Maxi. It's about as good as it gets for a young combo. I think they're in great shape. Question for me is will Daryl Morris be around to see it? Ooh, will it be around to see it through? Who knows?
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B
I mean you'd have to. We're only 60 games in and they are clinging to the six seed. The race for six in the east has gotten pretty spicy and like the the whole seven to 10 thing is a mess. But 60 games in, you'd have to count this season as a success for Philadelphia. I think given Embiid's been in and out of the lineup and this PG thing. I mean I don't know how you evaluate, you know, who's at fault for all of the mishaps that continued to befall this franchise, but this is better than I thought they would be after 60 games given and they haven't had like great health luck by any stretch.
- [20:57]
A
No. What was it 42 was the over under and we something like it was the one that really flummox you me and House about didn't know what to do. We you could have said 20 wins either way. Yeah, you're right. With Paul George basically missing and include the injuries at the start of the year and the suspension he's going to miss over half the season. Beats had three separate injuries. They've gotten more from Edgecomb than they I really like the rogue guys. I think that Bona is a legitimate rotation guy who I could see in a playoff series. Yeah, I don't like if that's the 27 matchup. They match up pretty like they're very comfortable against Boston even today all of a sudden that game was six and they just had these little runs against Boston. I think they like going against Jalen. They have guys to throw at him. They like going against the Boston guards. They did a good job on Pritchard today. But I just think without the size it's not going to happen. Nick spurs was the other really interesting one today which we both watched. It was the first time the spurs looked like crap in a while their win streak. Then it was also the first time the Knicks really you could see the full whatever whatever the blueprint was as they were heading in the trade deadline not going to overreact because the Knicks had some bad losses over the last couple of weeks. But did you learn anything from that game?
- [22:20]
B
I thought it was. First of all, I guess I learned that Mohamed Dior is going to shoot like 20 threes in a game at some point this season. I actually think he's pretty good and he's earned himself a look in their postseason rotation. To me, that game, I mean, a lot of Knicks played well in that game. That was a Josh Hart game. And you know, they're, they're going to see this strategy over and over again where teams put their centers, their rim protectors on Josh Hart and just ignore him and put wing players on Cat. And my God, Stefan Castle goes from guarding Cat to guarding Brunson when Cat goes out. The game is like, this guy is in his second year and this is what he's doing on defense, let alone the offense. That's crazy. But Josh Hart, it was a little funky to start with and I think the Knicks kind of leaned into. If you're going to ignore Josh Hart, we're actually going to bring him up into the action even though Wemby's on him. And that means we're bringing Wemby into the action. And he's this terrifying alien with a million foot wingspan. And they made the most out of it. Like he scored on the pick and roll. He got open shots for Brunson. He did the Draymond thing, which I think they're going to need to do more if teams treat him like this, which is, if you're ignoring me, swing the ball back to me. I'll, I'll run a handoff for Mikhail Bridges, who hit a three out of this. Landry Shammac got a good three out of it. And I looked it up on the tracking data. It was the most ball screens Josh Hart has set in any game this season was in this game. And I remember, I remember talking to a head coach maybe two months ago whose team was in New York to play the Knicks. We sat down and we were having coffee and we were, I was like, so who are you going to put your center on? Blah, blah. You're going to do the Hart thing probably, right? Like that's what the matchups make sense for you. Are you going to put your center on Hart? He's like, I don't know, man. Josh Hart feels like he solved that one and like he's hurt a lot of teams by making open threes and doing Josh Hart things and crashing the glass. And I'm kind of afraid to do it, and he didn't do it. And I think the Knicks won the game. But that conversation stuck in my head is like, this is how a team think about game planning. For the Knicks, it really starts with Towns and Hart, and the Knicks felt like today they hit a gear with that that they had not hit this season.
- [24:24]
A
Also helped San Antonio 26.5% from 3. You could say this about just about any team, but, yeah, the San Antonio clunker is a little unsustainable. It's also the way to beat OKC. Hey, could you guys miss 75% of your threes? That would really help us on the Knicks.
- [24:43]
B
Okay.
- [24:44]
A
Larry David was there. They kept showing him during the game. I'm reasonably sure that was his first or second time back, but I think it was his first time back since the game where he went to the Halliburton.
- [24:58]
B
Oh, he was there.
- [24:59]
A
The comeback game and the three that went all the way up and down. And he was supposed to stay for two games and flew back after that game. He was so traumatized. So I think it was an emotional return for ld.
- [25:09]
B
Wow.
- [25:10]
A
Back at msg, I didn't realize that. Yeah, it was. I mean, the Knicks fans still talk about that Halberton game. Like, I. I was Talking about the 86 World Series, the Buckner game. Like, it was that dramatic.
- [25:21]
B
I mean, I.
- [25:22]
A
You.
- [25:23]
B
You're not kidding. Because I think it's faded recently because we're just in the dog days of the season. But early in the season, when I would go to MSG and they would be up like 14 in the fourth quarter and another team would go on like a 5, 0 run, you could hear these murmurings in the crowd.
- [25:38]
A
I'm like, what?
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B
It's. This is like the eighth game of the season. What? Are you also worried? Oh, it's that game. It's in their heads a little bit.
- [25:44]
A
One of the most traumatizing losses of. Since we've been alive for the NBA. Oh, it's easily in the top five. And we've both watched the game since. It's an absolutely incredible rewatch. All right, I'm going to zip through a couple random dorky NBA things.
- [26:02]
B
Can I just say, before you do, I'm just so. I'm really happy that I got to share the Keda game with you. That's what I was thinking the entire second half. There's one. One day I'm going to get to see the sad Bill meme doing these after, after Celtics teams, and I really want to see the sad Bill meme. Like in person around a zoom this. I just. The whole thing. I was like, no one in the world is going to be happier that Kata had a career game and we had to spend nine minutes watching a woman get kicked in the face by BJ Edgecomb because of a review and
- [26:33]
A
make us reconsider who should be sitting sidelined. Do we need a protective net? I'm prepared for every dumb conversation possible about this. That lady was a hero sitting. Staying in the seat too.
- [26:45]
B
No complaints.
- [26:45]
A
I thought Tarico did a great job of being like, look at her toughen out. She's gonna. She's gonna stay the last four minutes. She's gonna go to the medical tent.
- [26:52]
B
Even she was sitting there like, is this is Secau. What is Secaucus doing? Is nobody there? Did they all go get a coffee break? Why is this taking eight fucking minutes to resolve this? Can we get on with it? I'm bleeding. Can we get on with the game?
- [27:04]
A
Right? I need an ice pack. 45 seconds max for a review. Just tell me that rule doesn't work. I'm doing 45 seconds. Keep the call as stands.
- [27:14]
B
Let.
- [27:15]
A
Let's move on. All right. This episode is brought to you by Hotels.com Save youe Way is a new feature on Hotels.com and it's as simple as it sounds. When you book a trip as a Hotels.com member, you decide how to use your savings. Take the instant savings now or bank the savings as rewards for later. It's your call only@hotels.com Save your way is available to loyalty members in the US and UK and hotels with member prices. Other terms apply. See site for details.
- [27:45]
B
Somewhere out there is a Chevy truck and the person who drives it, well, that's a Chevy person. You probably know one, your buddy, your sister. Ones who always show up. They're the first to rise, the last to leave. They always have that little extra something and maybe you've got it too. Chevrolet together. Let's drive. Visit chevy.com trucks to explore the lineup.
- [28:12]
A
Random dorky NBA stuff.
- [28:14]
B
Let's go.
- [28:16]
A
Have the Thunder officially become villains? Did this happen? Are we here? I'll give you some of the case and then you tell me all the picks that they have. Just the fact that they're successful, but then have this war chest too. Sam Presti how everybody else in the league now is mad at Sam Presti for a variety of reasons including that he's now anti tanking when he used to be pro tanking and whatever.
- [28:44]
B
Is it the phone ringing yet or is it. Do you have it on mute?
- [28:47]
A
It's off.
- [28:48]
B
Okay.
- [28:49]
A
All the foul baiting, especially from sga, that's became a thing this year. The boring commercials, just bad commercials starring the OKC people. I don't think people like that they stole the team from Seattle has to be mentioned.
- [29:01]
B
Wow, you are going all in.
- [29:03]
A
And then the coup de grace, Lou Dorrit, the dirtiest guy in the league. Just hands down, if we're handing that out and if that's in the awards, dirtiest player of the year, Lou Dort wins. That was the dirtiest thing anyone did this year. It was inexcusable. I can't believe he did was a play to try to hurt another player. It wasn't in the flow of a game where somebody's up in the air and they make a mistake. This was like a deliberate. I'm going to try to fuck with Nikola Jokic and maybe hurt him is my interpretation of that play. There's no other interpretation.
- [29:35]
B
I feel like you're taking it personally almost because it was Jokic. I feel like. Because you felt it was a personal attack on you.
- [29:40]
A
Listen, Liam Beer, there's been guys over the years they crossed the line of are you actually trying to hurt somebody else who's in this game? And I thought that crossed the line. And I couldn't believe the OKC coach was like surprised after maybe he didn't see the clip.
- [29:56]
B
I did enjoy Mark Dagnaut's reaction after the game. Like, I just want to know, is that a flagrant two? Now we're doing that every time it's a flagrant two. Because if we're doing it every time, I just want to know it's a flagrant two. And then that's as far as it would go. He wouldn't say anything else about it. But I mean, look, it looks. It doesn't look like a hard hit when you see it on replay, but that's because we're not taking it from like a 260 pound cinder block in real time. It was a, you know, it was a decent hit. I wasn't surprised they upgraded it to a flagrant two. And it was clearly, I'm going out of my way to hit you. This is not a natural running motion. This is not a direction anybody would take. Similar to like, you know that we've been seeing a lot of other plays like that where just guys just decide, I'm going to hit you. And he decided I'm going to hit Jokic. Are they villains? I Mean, I think villains are great for the NBA. I would love to see them lean in.
- [30:49]
A
That's why I brought this. Kind of needed an identity, right? Remember last year we were like, how do we talk about these guys? They just play hard. They all like each other. They're leaning into their inner villain now, which I like. I, I mean, like, we'll never see Jokic that mad again. And this is a guy who got, who got cheap shotted by one of the Morris brothers and then nailed him in the back. And nobody has messed with Jokic since for like what, five years.
- [31:13]
B
I was worried.
- [31:13]
A
Has anybody done anything Tim since then?
- [31:15]
B
I was worried his brothers were going to be at the game and something like, who knows what's going to happen if the Jokic brothers are at the game. But the eyes, those eyes will live on forever. I mean, that is an all time meme. Whatever. Like those eyes, I don't look at, I don't look at the first beer after trade deadline with the intensity that Nicole Jokic stared at Lou Dort with like big jail. I mean, that was, that was a lusty, aggressive stare.
- [31:44]
A
Yeah. There's three problems for Dort. One is that he, he saw Jokic, sized him up and then pretended he didn't see him. Then he stepped back into him and then he swung his right, right foot around to make sure that he got him. And there was, there was history from the before, earlier in the game with them. And in general, it was a chippy game. And I think one of the lessons from this week, there's real animosity in some of these games now.
- [32:10]
B
Oh, that was, that was like, that, that was an intense game from the beginning. Pistons spurs was just like, how about Pistons, everybody?
- [32:19]
A
Pistons Cavs was also. Because that I, I thought Friday night was awesome. But Piston Cavs was, was also really chippy and, and kind of angry and Not a lot of, not a lot. We're, we've. We've kind of moved out of the banana boat era with the, with the leak. I feel like there's a lot of animosity now in these games again.
- [32:38]
B
I, I love it. I think I, I think we all agree we would like to see more of that. On the Thunder villain thing. I, I will say some of it is envy. Right. Like, teams are just envious about how well the Thunder have built their team.
- [32:52]
A
Yeah.
- [32:52]
B
I, I will also say when Chris Finch now, what are we two months into this? Gave his. They're very frustrating to play against because they get to the line a lot and you can't touch Shay. Remember that press conference Chris Finch gave? And like there was before and after stats about Shays free throws. I heard from so many people around the league being like, Chris Finch is a hero. We love Chris.
- [33:13]
A
Finally somebody said it.
- [33:14]
B
Somebody said it like, so there's something. There's something to this.
- [33:18]
A
It was like the Stillwater drummer and almost famous. When they're, when they start going off on Russell Hammond and he's like, finally the truth in the bus or the plane, whatever it was, I like it. I think that Thunder have an identity again. Their fans are going to eat this up. I'm sure this segment will get cut out and put somewhere. And I'll be. I'll be a villain like poor Justin Terminate, who's enemy number one in Oklahoma
- [33:42]
B
City before all their players got hurt. Part of being a villain is knowing how goddamn good you are and wanting to crush everybody in front of you. And before all their players got hurt, they played like a team who was like, bring it on. We're going to destroy your soul in this basketball game. And I lo. I loved that. That's exactly how you want a champion to approach its potential repeat season.
- [34:05]
A
Well, you talked with Legs about this little case and Wallace mini leap in February, which has been noticeable. I don't know how much is there, big picture, but I've increased the ceiling in the building by a couple stories. Like because it's clear to me now they're going to have some tax stuff. They also figure out, have to figure out how to pay him. Dort's got the team option next year. And I wonder, like is. Is Dort and Caruso and Wallace on this team a year from now? My bet would be no. They'll try to patch, you know, the picks that they have and they'll try to save money that and then give the money back to Wallace. But Wallace, like what, Give me the best statistical season of his career. Give me a guess.
- [34:48]
B
18 and 5, maybe something like that.
- [34:51]
A
Do you think that's the best 22 and 5?
- [34:53]
B
I don't know. I mean, it just depends where he. It just depends where he goes, right? Like it depends what team he's on.
- [35:00]
A
See, I was ready to get to like 22, 7 and 5.
- [35:03]
B
You might be right. You're. You're better at projecting. You're more adventurous.
- [35:06]
A
And therefore I just wonder how much is there. Could he be. Obviously if he's on this team, he's never going to be the lead guard. But could he be like a real sidekick? Somebody who's 37, 38 minutes a game.
- [35:18]
B
You're right.
- [35:18]
A
Two threes a game. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe it's 20, maybe it's closer to you. It's somewhere between 18 and 22. But I wouldn't have said this three months ago, I don't think.
- [35:27]
B
But to your point, I think people just like recency bias and just people got a lot going on in their lives. I think people have kind of forgotten how good the Thunder can really be. And there's gonna be a week when they get everybody back and it's going to be like, oh God. Oh yeah, that's right. That guy too. And that guy is coming off the bench and that guy's a luxury item. And like Jared McCain, who they swiped from the Sixers, is Suddenly like the 13th man on the team, but he's playing great, too.
- [35:55]
A
Yeah. And honestly, not, not the worst thing in the world to not put all these miles on these guys when you're going to have a five or six year run, which I've been thinking about a lot, like talking about that five year warriors run. I forget what podcast we talked about it on here, but you know, those years are like seven years crammed into five years. When you add those playoff games and you look back at the history of the league and all of these teams that had these four or five year intense runs like that, the guys would half the time break down at the end of them. It certainly happened with the Celtics in the 80s and it happened to the Pistons. By the time they got to 91, it was just off a cliff. The Bulls kind of avoided it because Jordan went and played baseball for that year and a half, kind of, kind of pushed it off. I was thinking about the other day because Robert Hori was saying how he thought that 94 and 95, he said on some podcast the 94, 95 rockets would have beaten the Bulls, which in a vacuum is a relatively insane statement. But when you think about the Bulls coming off three straight titles and losing Horace Grant, I do think the Rockets would have beaten them one of those years.
- [36:59]
B
Is he saying like if Jordan never
- [37:02]
A
left, he's like, if Jordan was there, we would have beaten him both times. I don't know about both times.
- [37:06]
B
I don't think that's both times. Probably crazy. But I mean, you eight titles in a row, like that was not, that was probably not going to happen.
- [37:15]
A
I think even that's sustainable.
- [37:16]
B
Even people with the Bulls like Steve Kerr has said they don't he doesn't think that they would have won all those titles.
- [37:22]
A
Speaking of Nuggets, just a quick one. Okay. Cam Johnson, concern scale. I was DEFCON 2 and then the 0 for 4 today, and I might now be at DEFCON 1. It's been bad Friday night. I was on a couple different texts during that OKC Denver game. Three minutes left. I texted, this game is going to come down to a wide open Cam Johnson 3.
- [37:47]
B
No way.
- [37:48]
A
Because. Yeah, I have it. I have the text. Wow. The reason I said that was because he's been shaky enough in these games that they were clearly going to help off him in the biggest possession in the game and take their chances with him in the corner. And it's exactly what happened. And he missed it. It was a tie game with 7 seconds left. This is why you go and trade him. A trade that both of us loved.
- [38:13]
B
And he just said, hold on, hold on. Don't lump me in with you. I thought. I thought Michael Porter Jr. Was swept away. Like, he was like, I just lumped you in.
- [38:22]
A
What are you going to do about it? I said what? I said I lumped you in. I don't care if you didn't want to be lumped in. I needed company with me and House. So you didn't like it? You like Porter?
- [38:31]
B
I liked it because it also allowed them to get Valentunas and fill out their bench a little bit. And it was clear some sort of financial relief was going to come. I just thought people were, like, wildly underestimating how good Michael Porter Jr. Was in the trade and how important his shooting was for Denver. I also didn't think Cam. Cam Johnson's moving so tentatively in some ways that I almost. You just have to wonder if he's still not healthy all the way back from the various ailments that have hurt him this season because he just. Beyond the shooting numbers, which are actually for the season. All right. He just is not adding any, like, oomph to their ball movement, to their offense. It just isn't there.
- [39:09]
A
I looked up his crunch time stats and he's 1 for 8 in crunch time. Small sample size. Small sample size, but turns 30 this week. But I just think they need him. They need him at the end of these games. They've had so many winnable games. It's so weird to see a Nuggets team. What if they're still like five? We did this last week. We were saying how there are 500, there's still 500 over like 35 games now. And they've blown so many games at the end of games, which I just didn't think was possible. Now they have. Gordon's going to come back. That's going to change things. Watson. I'm not freaking out. No, but the Cam Johnson thing is significant though, because he's somebody that if he, if he's not going to be out there in that spot when we're in the playoffs, who is it going to be? Hardaway. Who's it going to be? Who's it going to be in that corner that is going to make or break like a game four on the road somewhere? Because I don't, I don't. He's lost my trust, unfortunately.
- [40:06]
B
Well, Gordon and Watson answer a lot of those questions. But I mean, Jokic had more, some more goofy turnovers by his, by his standards today. I think he had five turnovers and he's had a few turnovers in all these games where it's like the defense is on his wavelength. Like they, they, I don't want to say they outthink him, but he doesn't outthink them. They see the pass coming and pick it off, which is unusual for him. And right now they just have no, they have no size. Like they're so small. They have no one. They have like Christian Brown's trying to guard. Anthony's all right at it and Cam Johnson's trying to guard Julius Randle who didn't have a great game, but they just don't have any size outside of their centers right now. It is beginning again. You can't panic, can't overreact because all these guys are coming back and we'll see if Aaron Gordon can stay healthy. But this last month with Jokic and the team not winning as much as you'd expect with Jokic still playing sensationally, it does have a feel of like, sometimes it's just like it doesn't come together. Sometimes it's just not. We're not there yet. But it's, it's on my like, radar of like it might just be the year it doesn't happen. And I expected it to happen like, because I do think there's a legitimate great team in here. But yeah, sometimes you run out of time to find it.
- [41:18]
A
I mean, sadly, I'm deep down feeling the same way. The problem here is that Jokic is still having an all time season and Murray is having the best season of his life and we shouldn't have this many questions. Also, when Gordon comes back, what level of Gordon are we getting? And also Is he coming back? We now have they played. So basically 20 we're at the and entering the last quarter of the season. So he's going to come back and just be thrown into a four or five matchup against Minnesota where they're going to need him for like 35 minutes a game. And with a hammy. It's a hammy thing that just feels like it just keeps happening.
- [41:56]
B
That's the worry is that his combination of size, power on both ends, defensive versatility and he's now a proven 40 plus percent, three point shooter. They don't have anyone who combines all those things. That's why he's such a unique player. They have pieces of them and other players who have weaknesses, they get exploited elsewhere. And to get through the west you need to be pretty Damn close to 100% to get through all of these teams. I mean these are five legit, really good teams. Houston, who we're kind of both down on and I think everybody is, is now in third in the west. And they're. Whatever you think of them, they're going to make you feel some pain over a seven game series no matter who you are.
- [42:36]
A
The scary thing for Denver is four or five could be them in Minnesota. A team that loves playing Denver is very comfortable against them. Doesn't mean they're going to beat him. And the Lakers now have the same number of losses as Denver. And it's been this Lakers season, a team we've written off 700 times and it somehow has the exact same record as as Denver. Okay, next topic. Oh, speaking of the west, the 7, 8, 9, 10 in the west is just officially bizarre. Where we have Phoenix at 34 and 26, Booker still out, Brooks is out. I guess for the season. Golden State's 31 and 29 and it's going to be 31 and 32 in three games.
- [43:19]
B
I don't think they said for the season with Brooks, but time wise it gets. I think it was time wise.
- [43:23]
A
It's very close to the last week.
- [43:24]
B
I just wanted to be clear. I was like, did I miss something? I don't think I did.
- [43:27]
A
Golden State could be under.500 in three games. Portland's at 29 and 32. The Clippers are 27 and 31 but relying on Kawhi and guard and Darius Garland who aren't exactly Lou Gehrig.
- [43:39]
B
Clippers are about to win right now, by the way.
- [43:42]
A
All right, so they'll be 28 and
- [43:43]
B
31 and Portland lost. So they're 29 at 33. They lost to the Jonathan Kaminga led Atlanta Hawks by 34 points.
- [43:52]
A
Crowd chanting thank you warriors during the Kaminga game as he had another one. Portland has a weird Abdia back injury thing that's going to knock him out of any possible NBA stuff. Not that he was going to make it anyway. Golden State just said Curry needs at least 10 more days. That's starting to look a little. Get a little whiff of little, little tanky whiff.
- [44:14]
B
Oh, I would, I wouldn't. That, that
- [44:19]
A
I don't know if Curry like do you rush him back to play him hurt or do you be like, you know what, let's get the 10th pick in the draft.
- [44:28]
B
Okay. Okay. I mean that's, that's a. I mean so you got to lose in the play in then you got to like because there, there's, there's zero chance that any of these.
- [44:35]
A
Or just say fuck it, we're going to be. Yeah, fuck it, we'll wait. Steph, come back that week if you're healthy. Give me two teams you think are in the playoffs. 7, 8, 9, 10. Phoenix Gold State, Portland and Clippers. Pick two.
- [44:49]
B
I got to pick two. Two have to make it.
- [44:51]
A
Two have to make it.
- [44:52]
B
Well, again I'll tell you what, no one below them is even trying to win. So congratulations to the four play in teams. Unless one of you passes the Lakers or Nuggets, you are in the play in with 20 games left. We can celebrate. You can hang a banner. I will go. I'll go Suns Clippers. How about that?
- [45:11]
A
Suns Clippers.
- [45:13]
B
Darius Garland coming back tomorrow. Kawhi's Kawhi. You know, I don't feel great about it, but I'll go Suns Clippers. I don't love the. I don't love this step injury and the team just feels like there's just a lot of like DE Anthony Melton and Guy Santos and Quinton Post going on and all those guys are actually playing okay. But it just feels a little like a, like a rickety mishmash of whatever.
- [45:35]
A
The box score is alarming. The one yesterday they got killed by the Lakers. The box score is like oh my God, this is like a Brooklyn Nets lineup. I would also say Suns Clippers. I really tried to talk myself into Portland. I watched the entire Portland Charlotte game. My Hornets were playing at 10 o' clock Pacific time. I had to test drive that one. Portland really wanted the game and came in with a really hardcore defensive plan against and I don't want to waste our Charlotte stuff because we're doing deep dive later. But really like it was the first time I've seen a team be like here's our strategy to take out Knipple. And they were doing all this stuff to try to take him out. Jrue Holiday was playing really hard. I like clinging. They have good wings. Scoot Henderson. There's a lot of signs that he's. Don't sell your scoot stock yet. Don't shake your head.
- [46:22]
B
No, no. I did a whole Scoot Brandon Miller segment last two weeks ago and talked about scoot and I just didn't think that was a particularly good scoot game.
- [46:30]
A
Well, just there's some signs they're getting more comfortable. They're giving him the ball and letting him do stuff.
- [46:35]
B
It would be nice if more of the signs went into the basket.
- [46:38]
A
But you know, I'm just trying to be class half full of scoot. I've admitting defeat on the Brandon Miller scoot thing. I'm officially admitting defeat.
- [46:46]
B
There's not. There's no other move. I mean there's not. There's no other move.
- [46:50]
A
You're on that one. Brandon Miller is tremendous.
- [46:55]
B
He's really good.
- [46:56]
A
I love Brandon Miller. Like he. He's really looking Paul George Jalen brownish. Offensively like that could be. I like I think he could be 26 a game if he could stay healthy at some point.
- [47:07]
B
Absolutely.
- [47:08]
A
In his career. All right. So we both say Phoenix and the Clippers. And yet the Clippers could. Kawhi could be gone tomorrow. Okay.
- [47:23]
B
I mean I. Yes. But if you're asking me, it's just. It's a little bit of a. It's.
- [47:29]
A
I don't trust the don't say thing.
- [47:30]
B
Everything about it is weird. Including that there is no 11th place team. You can just erase the last part of the standings. Unless you're doing the reverse standings. You don't even need to look at them.
- [47:39]
A
Well, New Orleans might make a late surge here. They're only 20 back but they're one of the hottest.
- [47:44]
B
They're 11 games behind the Clippers in the Los Angeles.
- [47:47]
A
Can they make that up? I don't know. New Orleans played really well. Just killing the Hawks pick.
- [47:51]
B
Zion got hurt again though. Not again. He played. Zion got hurt. Just as we got used to Zion playing, he's now hurt again. Hopefully it's. It's minor, but this is just the story of some of these guys careers.
- [48:02]
A
I hope we learned a lesson from this. Pelicans pick with the Hawks. Cause we've seen this situation before. The Celtics were in it One year with the Cleveland pick. We've seen these teams have these seemingly super choice picks and the time to trade them is November, December, when they have maximum. Look how good this pick's going to be. Because the truth is, the team whose pick you have has no incentive to stop trying to. In the last 30 games of the season and they start playing some of these other tanking teams and they're like, fuck it. Well, what do we care? And they'll start winning and all of a sudden you're in the ninth pick instead of the fourth pick. And I think Atlanta probably should have sent that pick pack in a while ago if you'd. The ninth pick.
- [48:48]
B
If you watch the Pelicans, if a person who had never, who knows nothing about the NBA, watched the Pelicans play any of the other seven to eight teams who are tanking right now, they'd be like, well, that's gotta be the best team in the league, right? Like this team's gotta be by far the best team. They're so much better than this other team.
- [49:04]
A
Some of the tanking stuff's great. And then go. Sacramento's taking it a step further. There was some weird Internet rumor about that they want to sign Westbrook for next year, that he's become a leader of the team. Sacramento Goldsberry sent us that and my response was that I. I think him being the GM is the natural outcome for all of this. Vivek putting him in charge of the
- [49:28]
B
team, I guess he's now. I mean, he's a King player. You have to be a Kings player to really be in consideration to replace an established gm, a former Kings player.
- [49:38]
A
You have to put your time in. It's like prison. It's like you have to be in the yard for a couple years before they let you work in the library.
- [49:45]
B
I didn't even have the heart to respond to the text. I just. It's just.
- [49:49]
A
Let me ask you this. Too sad, is it. Would you say it's completely inconceivable that Russell Westbrook could some day be the Sacramento Kings gm?
- [49:58]
B
No way. I think that, like, I don't if I'm surprised there are not odds on it already. Like.
- [50:03]
A
Like maybe we could do it. One of those weird prediction markets. Put that bed down. Yeah, with Cal. Just put some Cal tweets out.
- [50:13]
B
By the way, look at Kalshee today for a new. A new line on Russell Westbrook being
- [50:17]
A
the GM dropped to 50 to 1 on fandom. What's fandos on fanduel predictions. Okay. Next goofy question. What happens if Giannis comes back this week?
- [50:30]
B
I'm so excited you brought this up.
- [50:32]
A
Miami's the. So right now we have 6, 7, 8, 9, Philly's 31 and 27, Orlando's 31 and 28, Miami's 32 and 29. So they're all grouped together at 6, 7, 8. America's team, the Charlotte Hornets, is 30 and 31. Can't wait to do the deep dive with them. They're the nine seed right now. Atlanta is 31 and 31. Actually, they're the nine seed right now. Charlotte's 10, and then Milwaukee is 26 and 33. So they are a couple losses behind basically Everybody. Milwaukee was 8 and 3 in their last 11, so they lost the stupid game they lost today. Giannis is looming. He could play the last 20 games. So if they go, I don't know, could they get to 40 wins? It's possible they go 14 and 6. What happens? Could they. Could they make. All they'd have to do is jump one team and get to the 10 seed, and then it's just playing playoff games that, like, to me, Giannis is not dead yet.
- [51:30]
B
No, that little. This is this. I think people wrote off the Bucks and kind of forgot about the Bucks and the. The Eastern Conference. Let the Bucks stay alive because that stretch they had before All Star was absolutely massive because it gave them the margin for error to come back to earth. And this was a comeback to Earth weekend for the Bucks. Two horrible losses, including a blowout to the Bulls, who had not won in literally a month. And yet they're just still two games back in the lost column behind Charlotte and two games back behind Atlanta, four games back of the Heat. But all of these teams, like, just look at their records in the last 10 games. Orlando 6 and 4, Miami 5 and 5, Hawks 6 and 4. None of them have run away from the Bucks. And, and like with Giannis, the team makes sense. It makes enough sense to make up two games on an Atlanta Hawks team who only, like, kind of makes sense as a basketball team. Orlando is. Is. That's. That's. Orlando and Miami are taller hills to climb, but not on. Not teams without problem. I mean, Norm Powell just got hurt. He's going to miss a little bit of time. The sooner he comes back, the more interesting this gets, because if they get into the play in and they're going full throttle with Giannis, even if they're coming from the 9, 10 seed, they got a hell of a chance to get in and Then it gets real interesting.
- [52:47]
A
Then it turns into NBA cup where it's just like, you have to be Giannis tonight or you're going home and that's it. And Giannis really cares and actually wants to be in the playoffs. I'm not an astronaut. I don't need an astronaut.
- [52:59]
B
Audiences have spoken. Project Hail Mary is an awe inspiring masterpiece.
- [53:05]
A
So I met him.
- [53:06]
B
Alien. If you've fallen out of love with going to the movies, this one will bring you back. Ryan Gosling in the first must see movie of 2026. Project Hail Mary. Rated PG13. May be inappropriate for children under 13. Only in theaters March 20.
- [53:26]
A
My Day Kicks off with a refreshing Celsius energy drink. Then straight to the gym, pre K pickup back home to meal prep. Time for my fire station shift. One more Celsius. Gotta keep the lights on when the three alarm hits. I'm ready. Celsius live fit. Go grab a cold refreshing Celsius at your local retailer or locate now@celsius.com. so Philly, Orlando, Miami, Charlotte, Atlanta, Milwaukee.
- [53:52]
B
Pick three that get into the playoffs.
- [53:56]
A
Yeah, just pick three right now for six, seven, eight.
- [53:58]
B
I'm not even going to look at schedules. I will do Philly, Orlando. No, no, no, no.
- [54:06]
A
Ooh.
- [54:06]
B
This is actually hard.
- [54:07]
A
Yeah, I know this is hard.
- [54:09]
B
I'll go. Fuck it. I'm gonna go Philly, Miami, Charlotte, Orlando's out. Which would just be the most wildly disappointing outcome for almost any, any team.
- [54:22]
A
So I would have had Orlando in the Miami spot there. I think Philly and Charlotte, I have them in and Charlotte, I can't wait to do the deep dive.
- [54:30]
B
I mean, Miami just, Miami is their way in.
- [54:33]
A
It's just, they just, that's the thing. Did you see the Houston, any of the Houston thing?
- [54:37]
B
I did. I saw the whole game.
- [54:40]
A
Until that game, I was like, they're going to, you know, this is not going to be the year for them, whatever. I don't know. They showed they had a little feistiness in that game and we always see around now there's one team that kind of gets hot or does whatever and I don't know if they're that good, but that, I don't know, you watch them and the team kind of makes sense now that when they have everybody and if they can get hero going a little bit. So I would probably say Philly, Miami, Charlotte, Orlando, more likely they make the playoffs or they change coaches for the end of the season, I will go
- [55:16]
B
make, I will go make the playoffs because I think I, I, I Just the history of this front office is that they act slowly. And I think they would. They will now give, especially given how Franz in particular has missed. I think they give this thing till the end of the season.
- [55:31]
A
That was an awful loss today. They're up seven and a halftime. They lose by 14.
- [55:37]
B
Bad.
- [55:39]
A
Atlanta doesn't have their pick, so no real reason for them to throw it in. That's why, like Milwaukee, if they were 28 and 31 instead of 26 and 33, I'd be more excited. I think they have, they're probably a little bit too far back, but I was thinking with Detroit, this is such a strange situation for them to be in, right? It's like they're going to get the one seed. They might have the best record in the whole league. And the prize for getting the one seed could be either Philadelphia with Embiid and George back. Miami, the fucking Heat culture, weird voodoo Miami, Team Charlotte, who's been awesome for 32 games now, like a legitimate kind of offensive juggernaut. And none of those matchups are fun. Like, none of them.
- [56:27]
B
It's great. That's what the playoffs are supposed to be. Let's not have any pushovers. I mean, I think, I think Orlando
- [56:34]
A
would be a pushover.
- [56:35]
B
I don't, I don't think they'd be a pushover on. If they were fully healthy. I don't think they'd be a pushover. I think the Hawks would be a pushover for Detroit. I just think Orlando's not going to
- [56:45]
A
be fully healthy and you know, they're not going to be fully healthy. Cross that off.
- [56:49]
B
Unlikely.
- [56:50]
A
When, yeah, when Suggs plays two games in a row, it's like a shock.
- [56:54]
B
It's, it really makes you feel good when you turn on the Magic game. And so I love watching Suggs play. I'm like, all right, this team just became 25% more entertaining to watch. Yeah,
- [57:06]
A
Cleveland, who won today? Barely another dorky combo. If you're Cleveland, do you care? If you're just, you're the four seed, you play Toronto on round one. Do you care?
- [57:18]
B
No, I don't, I don't think you care about your seed at all. If you're Cleveland, you just need to get as healthy as possible and like, you know what you're being judged on. And I, I, I wouldn't stress about 3, 4, 1, 2 all. You've had your ups and downs against all the teams currently above you in the standings. Just, you just gotta play.
- [57:35]
A
On FanDuel, they were plus 125 for the 4 seed and 11 and 1 for the 5 seed. If I'm them, I just want everyone running full steam second week in April. I don't care if I'm playing Toronto and I don't mind playing Detroit. I don't think they thought. I think they would think they can beat Detroit. They have more offense, more stuff to bring to the table. Schroeder had really had a chip on his shoulder Friday night. I thought that just to bring him off the bench like possessed. Doing that crazy Schroeder stuff I thought would be fun. But I think that team, you know, the, the Sam Merrill piece has defrayed the fact that they missed on DeAndre Hunter. Dean Wade is a. I guess just a exit stage right when he, when he played.
- [58:23]
B
First of all, he's been starting for them for the most part since. Since the team got fully formed again. When he, when he plays decently, they are very hard to beat. He's. He's a minor role player, but they, they really like him and they keep giving him chances and they keep seeing him through these, like, months where it feels he hits like two threes in a month. And then I'll have a game where it's like he's four of six from three and that's all he does other than play great defense. But. But it helps. And. But they. At least they turn Hunter into Schroeder and Keon Ellis. Like, at least they. They did. They got two guys that can play for them in that. In that deal.
- [58:59]
A
Body language. Doctor likes their chemistry, too. I like some of the stuff I saw on the sidelines from Mitchell and Harden. Looks like. Mitchell and Harden like each other. Honeymoon Harden is just. It's really kicked in.
- [59:09]
B
I don't know. Did you create Honeymoon Harden? Is that you?
- [59:12]
A
I think I did. I'll take it. Next topic. I texted this to you so you're actually prepared for this one. Normally I like to sneak attack you with topics. Perimeter defenders better than the Thompsons.
- [59:25]
B
All right, let me bring up my list.
- [59:27]
A
I asked you to make a list. Who's actually better than these guys? Perimeter defenders. We're not talking big guys. We're not talking tiny guards or small guards.
- [59:35]
B
No, I don't. The answer is I'm not sure anybody is. Although I think they both are. No player is perfect, but I think so. Here are the names I wrote down as just like, these are the guys you at least have to consider.
- [59:49]
A
Tell me how many names you wrote down before you tell me the names
- [59:51]
B
I wrote like 15 names down because I go big. I go big all the time.
- [59:54]
A
But I wrote down 10 names.
- [59:56]
B
Yeah.
- [59:57]
A
Okay.
- [59:59]
B
Who is the Caruso?
- [60:03]
A
Yep. They were not my first name.
- [60:05]
B
No, I'm just. I do. I just went down standings order.
- [60:08]
A
Okay.
- [60:08]
B
And I'm going to omit some ones that I don't think are serious.
- [60:11]
A
I think the good news is the fan bases won't take that personally at all if you forget somebody.
- [60:16]
B
So I'm just going to say, like, I'm not going to mention Hugo Gonzalez after saying. I'm not mentioning. I'm sorry, Hugo. You don't get into this one. The llama. The llama haircut doesn't get you in. I think Jaden McDaniels deserves a word. Derrick White doesn't have the size, but
- [60:33]
A
I left him off because I think there are certain guys that he probably can't guard.
- [60:38]
B
I still think Pete Kawhi needs to be on this list.
- [60:42]
A
Adam.
- [60:42]
B
He can't bring it every night, but when he really, really brings it, he might still be the best perimeter defender in the NBA for a game or a quarter. Dyson Daniels. And you're running.
- [60:55]
A
I left him off.
- [60:56]
B
You're running out at guy, and I don't mind leaving him off. Like, you run out. Like, I think Peyton Watson could. Could get into this conversation. OG Anunoby had him.
- [61:06]
A
I had Kamara.
- [61:07]
B
Kamara is on my list. That's a good one.
- [61:10]
A
I had Scotty Barnes.
- [61:11]
B
He's on my list, too. I was waiting. I wanted you to bring up Scotty Barnes, but I. I had him on my list.
- [61:17]
A
Here's my descending order. I had McDaniels first. I had the Dortin Caruso combo. Castle in an obi. I had Kamara, Kawhi, Barnes and Bridges all next to each other. And I had ant Edwards because I think when he really wants to guard for a possession, I think he's as good as anybody. I'm not saying he's doing it all game. If it's 30 seconds left and I need to play defense and I have him and McDaniels. I just saw it. I went to the clipper game the other night, and the reason I have McDaniel so high is he snatched Ben Matheran's soul from his body for two hours. He just. He reached inside his heart and pulled it out. And by the fourth quarter, Matheran, who is like a really confident guy, like, walks around with his chest out and it really seems Alpha 8 was just like deer in the headlights and couldn't solve it. McDaniels is terrifying and he's the only one I've seen in person other than when Kawhi gets into that. I will now take the ball when he gets into that mode. He's the only one I've seen on the level with the Thompsons. Castle, even though he guarded Durant, which was one of the great things that Grant random things of the season, I'm not sure if there's certain guys could he guard bigger guys like Jaylen Brown, bigger physical forwards. I'm not sure he's big enough to guard those guys, but McDaniels is.
- [62:38]
B
But you cannot say enough, I mean, you cannot say enough about how good Castle and Harper are as defenders this into their career. Because the experience factor, although the Thompson twins are not super experienced either, is what makes it hard to put them on like this sort of apex level. But those guys, I mean, they guard up in size so well. You put them on. They were on Brandon Ingram in a. In a recent Spurs Raptors game, Dylan Harper closed the game on Brandon Ingram and kind of clamped them a little bit. And I'd mentioned how Castle guarded Cat and Brunson in the same game. Like they are up for the Durant game. I'd forgotten about when he kind of bodied up Durant and like Durant was like, what's happening?
- [63:19]
A
Is this a foul?
- [63:20]
B
What's. What's going on? They. They are big and rangy and they are want all the smoke. Like, those guys are so far ahead of the curve defensively, it's crazy.
- [63:32]
A
Jaylen Brown is in the vicinity for this. If it's one of those games where he's really fired up to play defense. But it's bigger guys. It's like Luca type guys. It's the more physical type of wings that he's really good at defending and really has been for the last few years.
- [63:47]
B
I would not, respectfully, not put Jalen Brown in this competition. I know.
- [63:50]
A
I'm just saying certain games, the other one, and I thought about this the other day at this Clipper game I was at. I was like, first of all, three inches taller than I was prepared for in person. I don't know why the TV made me think he was like 6:1, but I felt like he was the same height as Anthony Edwards. I could figure it out. Big, big shoulders. And just when they had him, McDaniels and Edwards all out there at the same time against a team that really didn't have a point guard. Chris Dunn was the only sort of point Guard on the Clippers. Everyone was terrified to bring the ball up. Nobody was happy about it, but I thought that was interesting.
- [64:30]
B
He's a great fit, you know. I mean, you know who's furious right now?
- [64:34]
A
Who?
- [64:35]
B
Dylan Brooks is furious. Dylan Brooks is going to pick up the rare podcast article for arguing. So he's just off the list. He's hurt. We don't even consider.
- [64:43]
A
I had him honorable mentioned we might not see him again this season. Well, this leads to the next question. Pick one as a defender.
- [64:53]
B
Of who?
- [64:54]
A
Houston Thompson or Detroit Thompson?
- [64:58]
B
Houston Thompson. I think Houston Thompson is ahead of the. I don't like doing the brothers thing. It makes me sad to pit the brothers against each other like this, but it makes. It hurts my soul. But I'm picking Ahmed Thompson. I think he scales down positionally a little easier than Asar does. Asar might guard up a little bit better, but I think Ahmed Thompson can guard anybody. And he just. His speed, I mean, they're both unbelievable.
- [65:20]
A
But I'd pick Amin, so I give him a slight edge as well. I think Asar is the single scariest guy to bring the ball up against. Like when he's really in. I'm going to try to get a steal as you bring the ball up mode. I think he's number one. Who's scarier than him?
- [65:39]
B
You know, I was watching a game, it was a tank off game and I watched it because I just. This is what I do. I watched Grizzlies, Kings.
- [65:46]
A
Oh, Scottie Pippen Jr. Oh, he's another good one.
- [65:49]
B
I shit you not.
- [65:50]
A
Didn't he have three steals in a row or something?
- [65:52]
B
4. Four consecutive steals while the Kings were bringing the ball up. And it was almost like, let's just cancel the game if this is what's going to happen. Send everybody home, refund the tickets. It's a great night out for Scottie Pippen Jr. Game over.
- [66:08]
A
See, that's another guy. Like why wasn't. Why didn't a contender try to get him?
- [66:12]
B
He's been injured the whole year.
- [66:14]
A
I don't care. Like they just. It's like free second round pick for him, right? Smith is turning down a second round pick for Scottie Pippen. I don't think so. And he's been hurt most of the year. I don't. I wanted to see him in a playoff series. Okay, next question. So the all NBA. It feels like we've separated to yoka just ga Cade and Wemby are levitating in that top group now. And then we Have a next five of Ant and Mitchell and Jalen and Luca and Maxi in some order.
- [66:46]
B
Ant, Mitchell. I'm writing this down.
- [66:49]
A
Ant, Mitchell, Jalen, Luka, Maxie are in the mix. There's a first team spot open. But then the next question is, I only listed nine guys. Who is the inside track for the 10th spot? If I gave you Brunson, Kawhi, Jamal, Murray, Duran, Durant, Barnes, Ahmed, Thompson, et cetera, et cetera. Who's your 10th? Who's the 10th best player in the league right now from an all NBA standpoint, in your opinion?
- [67:18]
B
Assuming eligibility? Kawhi Leonard.
- [67:23]
A
Okay, I agree with you.
- [67:24]
B
So he's got like. And then I put Brunson next. So Brunson. When I did this, I had Brunson, Maxi. I had Maxi, third team.
- [67:33]
A
Oh, so you have Maxi out of that group and Brunson in the group.
- [67:36]
B
I had. I had Kawhi, second team when I did my draft of NBA teams.
- [67:40]
A
So. All right, so there's nine, plus Brunson, Kawhi, Murray and Duran. That's 13. Which means there's two spots left for everybody. Not to mention we might lose some eligibility. Guys, we've already lost Curry. Booker's at 16 now. Not that he was going to make it anyway, but he's probably getting bounced. Yokage only has two left. Wemby has four left. Kawhi, I think has four. Abdi is going to be out. We might not have enough. All NBA guys is, I guess, my bigger point.
- [68:09]
B
Well, you didn't mention Durant.
- [68:12]
A
I didn't mention Durant.
- [68:14]
B
I mean, you got to mention Durant. You're not going to put Durant on third team. All NBA. You're going to put other.
- [68:22]
A
Okay, I mean, I didn't say I wouldn't.
- [68:26]
B
Were you on the text thread?
- [68:27]
A
Were you mentioned Wasn't.
- [68:30]
B
Okay.
- [68:30]
A
I. I take stuff like the. The whatever the hell happened in All Star Weekend, I think has to count in your all NBA candidacy. Well, you know the weirdest story of the year.
- [68:39]
B
26.
- [68:40]
A
I get it. 26, 5 and 4090 shooting. Yeah, he's. I had him. I have 13 guys listed then. Look, I'll even show you bubble Durant, top guy. So he would be on my third team if this season ended today.
- [68:55]
B
You didn't even mention him.
- [68:57]
A
Why? He's in my bubble list with Durant. Barnes, Thompson, I mentioned him as a
- [69:01]
B
bubble guy
- [69:04]
A
and I don't know if any. The only person that I think the nerds might take and grab ahold of and Grab the flame and start bringing it outside the wall. I could see a Chet momentum just for the defensive impact. We need two OKC guys in the all NBA. I could see that unfolding. I don't know how you feel about that one.
- [69:27]
B
Yeah, I mean, I. I could certainly see it unfolding because there is always that groundswell of, well, this team has to have X amount of people, which I don't really believe in. I just, I been. I've been wanting him to do a little bit more on offense in some of these games without Shay and Jalen Williams and AJ Mitchell and on and on and on. Chet hasn't scored 20 points in a game since January 27th. It's just been too many, like 13, 15, 17. And this is like, I look. The defense is unimpeachable. He's unbelievable. The fact that he could shoot threes is a huge spacing boon for their offense. He's amazing. I just think this level of conversation. There's only 15 spots. I. For me, there's 20 games left, so we'll see. He's just. He's out on the outside looking in, but not by much. It's not like a huge slight, you know, just player 19 or 18 or 17.
- [70:21]
A
He's an all star, not an all NBA guy in my mind.
- [70:23]
B
You haven't mentioned one guy that maybe you mentioned him when you listed him off and I missed it. But did you mention Jalen Johnson?
- [70:30]
A
I had him in the bubble list. Okay. Shay is minus 260 for MVP. Yoko just plus 450. Kate is 10 to 1. Inexplicable because if SGA misses five more games, I think Cade's going to win the MVP. I can't. I can't bet on it because I have over Wemby. Wemby's at 25 to 1. And I think the spurs would have to basically lose two more games the rest of the year and be the 1 seed and have the best record in the league for it to be a serious combo. I'm not even sure some games if he's the best guy in the game for his team. Even though I know, like the Detroit game Monday, what he did defensively was incredible, all that stuff. Luka has dropped to 100 to 1 after a pretty tough week for Luka.
- [71:14]
B
100 to 1? Yeah. Wow.
- [71:17]
A
Oh, that's my next dorky thing I wanted to bring up to you. And then we're going to do the Charlotte deep dive. Luka's MVP finishes by year. This is his eighth Year didn't finish first, year fourth, second year sixth, third year fifth, eighth, third. Didn't get any votes last year. This is year eight and he's not going to be in the top four. So he's only had one third place finish and one fourth place finish. This would be after eight years. If I had told you this during his rookie year as we watched how good he was, would you have ever guessed this?
- [72:02]
B
No. And in fact I feel like I've picked him as my preseason MVP at least twice. He's been like a preseason odds on favorite to win MVP maybe more times than that. And so yeah, I realized the whole conversation is now shifting into and there was a whole will he ever win a championship conversation this year that I feel like is a little bit premature. But yeah, I am surprised. Part of it is that if you look at his game log, he's only cracked 70 games a couple times. There's some shortened Covid related shortened seasons in there, but it is surprising. I thought he would have won an MVP by now. I thought he would have won, let me admit I would. I thought he would have won an MVP for the Dallas Mavericks by now. So everything about what's happening is a little bit surprising.
- [72:44]
A
Good point. Yeah. If we when we were moving into the 2020s and if we had had a who is the most likely guy to win one MVP this decade draft, I think he would have been the first pick.
- [72:54]
B
It's just tailor made like he's the whole offense is going to revolve around him. His passing does make most types of players better. He's had playoff success basically since he came into the league. He's been a good playoff player. Like going back to the bubble, et cetera. It just seemed like absolute no brainer. Like you'd be shocked if a guy like this didn't win an MVP.
- [73:15]
A
He's 286 and 210 regular season or 287 now 26 and 29 in the playoffs. Never has one. I think 52 games is his highest
- [73:28]
B
with Dallas because he's missed a decent amount of games. He's missed the kinds of numbers of games that turn a 55 win team into a 47 win team.
- [73:39]
A
Your little one grew three inches overnight. Adorable.
- [73:42]
B
Also expensive.
- [73:44]
A
Sell their pint sized pieces on depop and list them in minutes with no
- [73:48]
B
selling fees because somewhere a dad refused
- [73:51]
A
refuses to pay full price for the clothes his kids will outgrow tomorrow. And he's ready to buy your son's
- [73:56]
B
entire wardrobe right now.
- [73:58]
A
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- [74:09]
B
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A
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- [74:36]
B
built for business by American Express
- [74:40]
A
all right, it's time. Hornet's deep dive we're really doing this. I'm going to start us off with some Hornets facts. You know all of these.
- [74:51]
B
I'm just going to sit back and soak it in.
- [74:54]
A
They haven't made the playoffs in 10 years. Last time they made the playoffs was the last year of Barack Obama's second term since their expansion comeback year in 2005. Three playoff appearances as a franchise because for whatever reason we include the 1988-2002 whatever. They haven't won a playoff round since 2002, which was also the year they moved. They don't have a single number that they could retire this century. Unless you want to talk yourself into a Kembra Walker night just for the emotional night or Al Jefferson night.
- [75:34]
B
Kembh would be the one.
- [75:37]
A
They haven't made the Eastern finals once, even going back to the morning LJ era, just in the last few years. They drafted shai Gilgeous Alexander 11th, and immediately traded him for Miles Bridges in two seconds. I forgot this happened. Oh yeah, they drafted Jalen Duran and immediately traded him for a future first in three seconds. And the future first became Nixon Smith Jr. They took Saloon one pick before Donovan Klingen. They spent a lottery pick on James Book Night. That's the thing that happened last year. They were 19 and 63. They started out 4 and 14 this season. So they were 23 and 77 in 100 games over two seasons. And since then something magical has happened. They're now 30 and 31 their last 32 games. Zach Lowe 21 and 11. Their first overall net rating plus 9.8 in the last 32 games of any NBA team. First in offensive rating 121.4, which would be nearing the all time high. They have 21 wins. 15 of 21 were by double digits including their last four in a row and they're 143 in their last 17 games. I have more, but let's all start there this has been the most dramatic turnaround in season of anyone that I can remember any other time this has happened. There's been signs like OKC the year when OKC became like a 500 team. It's like, yeah, I could see this building all year. This was like, this is like a fun league pass team that will never actually be a playing team this year. There's no way. And yet they're going to be a playing team and might even win the division.
- [77:22]
B
The division. I forgot about the division.
- [77:24]
A
The division.
- [77:25]
B
East division.
- [77:26]
A
They could win the division right now. The odds in the division, they are, oh, they're plus 460. Orlando is plus 135 and Miami is plus 155 on FanDuel. I still like Charlotte to win the division. But look, there you go.
- [77:39]
B
So you go, well, I just go like, first of all, I can give
- [77:44]
A
you a couple more stats if you want.
- [77:46]
B
First of all, I just, I implore whatever team wins this division, do not hang a banner. Even you, Charlotte, do not hang a banner.
- [77:57]
A
Charlotte. If they go 44 and 38 win the division, I'm allowing the banner.
- [78:01]
B
No banner. You should be. Any team that hangs division banners should be shamed at all times. I'll give you this. The ball. Miller, Knipple Bridges, Diabate lineup is plus 179 in 281 minutes. That's like. That is preposterous.
- [78:28]
A
That is the number one lineup of death.
- [78:30]
B
That is the number one plus minus for any lineup in the NBA. Number two is the Pistons starting lineup at plus 131. So 48 points quote worse than the Hornets and they've played almost twice as many minutes. Plus one. 79 in 281 minutes is insane.
- [78:52]
A
And somebody that wasn't playing for like what, the first six weeks?
- [78:55]
B
Basically it's a perfect storm of in all the attention on Canipple and he's been unbelievable. And I don't want to. I don't want to besmirch anything about your illegitimate son, but he's been this constant metronome of productivity the entire season ball up and down. But Miller has leveled up and stayed there for like a month and a half to two months now. And something about the way Diabate fits with this group at the starting five. It's a perfect storm of Miller, Diabate, Lamelo. Kind of chilling a little bit with some of the crazy stuff and just be playing a simpler game. In a lot of ways it's all clicked together. And I mean we're what you just said 30, 35, 40 games into this being like, this is a real team. This is. This is. I don't quite know where we're heading with it, but it's a. It's a real team. And as you're going to get into the way this has happened is incredibly unusual in modern NBA history.
- [79:59]
A
The crazy thing about Lamelo. Cause if you weren't really following or watching the games or even looking at the stats that much, you would think like, oh, it's Lamelo's healthy and the team took off. He only plays like 27 minutes a game. He's in a weird way, I don't want to call him a luxury, but this is really built around Khan and Miller and d'. Abate and then Lamelo, when he's good, they become almost unstoppable. Now they have this Kobe. The Kobe White trade, which we did, the trade deadline thing, it was like, oh, cool. I like Kobe White more than Colin Sexton. It's a really important trade for them for a variety of reasons. One, which I totally forgot until I was watching the game on Saturday, like, he's a North Carolina guy. Like, Roy Williams was there to see Kobe White, and Kobe White's like, loves being in Carolina. He's like, they're going to be able to resign him, and they're going to make him, like, a part of stuff. Kobe White's stats last three years, he was 19, 5, 4, 37% from three. Made almost three threes a game. He's like the perfect guard to just add to this. And also, more importantly, gives them Lamelo insurance if Lamelo ever gets. Gets wacky or gets hurt or anything. Right.
- [81:09]
B
Well, I mean, Colin Sexton was playing really well for them, and you could probably find the stats for him are not so dissimilar from what you just said about Kobe White. In fact, they're not.
- [81:17]
A
I know, but I'm talking. I'm talking styles of player, though. I just like Kobe White's game more. He's more of a basketball player.
- [81:23]
B
He's a bigger, more dynamic, more diverse kind of player than Colin Sexton, who
- [81:28]
A
can play off the ball, on the ball like he can. I just think he fits better for what they're doing. He's a little bigger. He's got a little more defensively. I think he can help them, and I think that when they play that lineup of death you mentioned, but then you can move Kobe into the Lamelo spot. It's still a really good team.
- [81:47]
B
We can't call it the Lineup of death. Because the Death lineup is taken and it's the worst lineup.
- [81:51]
A
I'm just trying to give Charlotte as many bones as possible.
- [81:53]
B
It's sitting there in front of us. How about the boy Buzzsaw? The Buzz. Buzzsaw lineup, something.
- [81:59]
A
The Buzzsaw lineup. I like it.
- [82:01]
B
Just the first draft. We can workshop it.
- [82:04]
A
So you mentioned something on one of your pods the other day, and I can't remember. I think you were talking maybe about Detroit. Maybe it was with Lego you were talking about Detroit only has one guy that can really create a shot, but they have all these guys who know how to cut, do all these things and they can kind of patch it together. But really they only have one guy who can create a shot. And you could feel at the game on Friday night against Cleveland when Cade fouled out, which for some reason has happened more than once this season, Cade fouled out and it's like, oh shit, what do we do now? And they tried to patch it together.
- [82:36]
B
By the way. You know, part of the reason why Cade gets in foul trouble here and there, because he tries hard on defense and he tries to make plays on defense. Like that's part. That's part of it. Like.
- [82:44]
A
Well, he doesn't get the respect either from. I don't think he gets the superstar respect. The Hornets have five guys who can create a shot. Like for real. Khan can do it. Brandon Miller, obviously. Lamelo can get by anybody. Kobe White could create a shot. Miles Bridges can create a shot. So anytime it's like 8 seconds left, play screwed up or whatever, wherever the ball is, somebody can kind of do something with it or you can set a screen. That's one thing. The threes are out of control. They're averaging 17.1 made threes during this 32 game streak where they're 21, 11, 17.1. They're shooting 43 a game. They're 40% from three, which leads the league. But they're also second in rebounds, which is nice because canippo rebounds, Lamelo rebounds, Bridges, every guy on the team goes and grabs rebounds. And then when you just think about if I know I'm getting 17 threes a game, I can kind of have a bad game and still be in the game, you know, like I can still hang around. I can still. I could be down nine and then all of a sudden I'm down three. I don't know. And they have three 20 point scores. I really believe in this team. And then we didn't mention Grant Williams who came back the shooting stats aren't great, but they kind of needed one more glue guy who kind of knows where to go and how to move on defense. So they have Lamelo and Con and Miller and Bridges. They have White. They have Williams, Diabate and Kalkbrenner and Josh Green.
- [84:18]
B
I guess Josh Green has given them really nice minutes as the 10th guy
- [84:22]
A
as their swing defender.
- [84:23]
B
And he and Seon James are kind of the wing guys that come off
- [84:27]
A
kind of the wild card wings. Right.
- [84:28]
B
But Josh Green has been the best version of what Josh Green is like. You know, he's not going to shoot much. He's going to play some defensive hit corner threes and move the ball and he's done all of that for them.
- [84:38]
A
Do you value this nine in a row on the road?
- [84:41]
B
Love road wins. I'm a sucker for road wins.
- [84:45]
A
All right, I'm about to, I'm about to take this up a level to crazy town. But do you want to say something normal before I do that?
- [84:53]
B
I do and I want to delight you in saying it because you mentioned, first of all, I think you undersold Lamelo a little bit in saying the team is built around Kanippel and Miller and Lamelo kind of floats in as a bonus. All the lineup data is, suggests that their offense is awesome when Lamelo's on the floor. And now this may change with White because they can keep two of these four guys on the floor at all times, which is huge for them. But their offense without Lamelo has not been very good. And even like some, I, I don't have it all sorted in front of me that I did it a couple weeks ago. Like even like the Miller and Knipple. No Lamelo lineup was just so, so at one point. But anyway, so I think you undersold him a little bit.
- [85:28]
A
But I'm just like just projecting the White being able to do a reasonable facsimile of a lead guard for them.
- [85:35]
B
I just think his level of creation is, is unbelievable. His knack for floaters, he's getting. He's trying to get to the rim more. But I, and you mentioned the shooting. Like Lamelo is a, an elite three point shooter. It's just masked by the fact that he took so many difficult threes that deflated his percentage a little bit. He's an elite three point shooter.
- [85:53]
A
Right.
- [85:53]
B
And everyone knows Knipple is a great shooter and just said. They just sort of just. It's like at the end of the sentence about they have this Knippel is unbelievable shooting he is. This is one of the greatest shooting seasons anyone has ever had in the history of basketball. And I just, I did the basketball reference thing for you. There are six seasons in the history of the NBA, six individual player seasons and Knipple is on pace to be seven. And he's almost going to do it this week. Two thousand minutes. So you can't be like a role player who comes in and pops threes 43% or better from three. He's at 44% right now. At least eight threes per 36 minutes attempted. Six player seasons total. Here are the six. Steph Curry. Steph Curry. Steph Curry. Klay Thompson, Desmond Bain, Duncan Robinson. And at 1900 plus minutes, about to be Khan canipple.
- [86:55]
A
Wow. And the Klay Thompson is the comp. Cause that's who he reminds me of, a Klay Thompson coaching tree kind of player. The way I don't, he just reminds me of him with some of the stuff he does, but he moves kind of smartly in the paint and stuff he does stuff Klay never did. Klay was always around the fringes for the most part. Khan also has this little John Havlicek side when he can muscle in and get a little 10 footer, 12 footer. But when they set those picks, it really reminds me of Clay, those little like quick flare picks when all of a sudden he's wide open for a split second. He makes them, they move their, they
- [87:34]
B
move their best offensive players around in such creative ways in all over the floor. Charles Lee and his staff deserve a lot of credit. They've really maximized three guys who, you look at them and think, well, teams should be able to switch a lot of actions between these guys. And it's just they've made it really hard to keep track of everybody.
- [87:52]
A
All right, are you ready?
- [87:53]
B
I, I, I, I'm so excited.
- [87:55]
A
We're going to crazy town.
- [87:56]
B
Let's go.
- [87:58]
A
The 2013 warriors, okay, 47 and 35, 40% from three led the league, upset Denver in round one, lost to San Antonio in round two. We were working at Grantland together. League was not as good as that 2013 warriors team with those two guys. And David Lee basically was Bogan on that team yet he was.
- [88:24]
B
Yeah,
- [88:28]
A
just the league just wasn't as good. And that was probably a 41, 41 team.
- [88:33]
B
Now that was a 51 win team.
- [88:37]
A
No, they were 47 and 35.
- [88:38]
B
Oh, 12 13. You're talking 12 13.
- [88:40]
A
I'm talking that first Warrior season.
- [88:42]
B
That's the team. Yeah.
- [88:45]
A
Curry was 22 a game. Clay was 17 a game. Combined, there were 6.1 made threes. People didn't shoot the threes as much back then. As that season evolved, we were like, something's really here. This is headed somewhere. And then when they beat Denver was what, 56 wins that year. Ty Lawson, team Iguidala's on that team. George Carl. It was a big upset and then they lost to the spurs in the next round. But Curry, everything about it felt like something special happened. So that summer they make a big move for Iguodala. They had Draymond on the team as a rookie, but he blossomed. The second year they go 51 and 31. They lose the clips in seven. Curry and Clay jump up. And then the next season was the season. My crazy town question for you is, could this Khan, Miller, lamelo threesome be the same kind of foundation that Curry and Clay were for that warriors team? And could you actually like see a path for this nucleus with some of the caps, some of the picks which I want to go through? Adding one more guy, could this be like a real playoff team a year from now?
- [89:53]
B
There's no question it could be a real playoff team a year from now. And I do think adding one more guy has to be part of the recipe. But I think the warriors comp. You're now comping them to what becomes an all time incredible team.
- [90:06]
A
That's why I said we're going to a nucleus for.
- [90:09]
B
You have to include Draymond in the. Can this be Stephen Clay?
- [90:12]
A
Because I'm saying that that first year, Draymond's not. He's an. It's just Curry and Clay basically with Bogutt and Harrison Barnes is on there at that point, but it's not Draymond. We didn't know who Draymond was as a potential like Dynasty guy. But that's the year.
- [90:25]
B
That's the year to point to because more than the regular season and even more than the Denver series, because Gallinari gets hurt right before that series and it kind of upends their team. The spurs loss, that was the final proof of concept for me. I remember vividly thinking it at the time, writing about it at the time, talking to people with the warriors the next season and beyond about that series. And remember the first two games in that series were in San Antonio and they were wild games. The warriors split the games and then Steph gets hurt in the series and kind of limps through it. Bogut gets hurt in that series and kind of Limps through it, they lose in six. But just like the gold standard of NBA defense ran into something that they didn't know what to do with. They just were like, we're, we don't. This guy's pulling up from 30ft and we're supposed to defend this. Like this is not how we were told basketball was. That series was the series where the warriors became the warriors to me. And then it just, it just snowballed from there. This team is going to be an awesome offensive team. They could be a 50 win team next year. I don't think that's out of bounds at all. Like that kind of leap, this is a real thing. That kind of leap is there. I do think one more AD is key. And then the Draymond thing I bring up only because the warriors were an elite defensive team right away when they started to play him. And I think that's the big question for this team is how do they become a top.
- [91:46]
A
But that really was until the 67 win season when Lee got hurt and then Draymond's minutes went way up. Right. That was the year when it bloomed. That was year three of this.
- [91:59]
B
The David Lee injury was a big part of their team. 13, 14, they were third in defense. 12, 13, they were 12th in defense.
- [92:09]
A
Right.
- [92:10]
B
The Bogut Ellis trade obviously also changed the trajectory of their team. But that's the question for the for. And maybe Diabate has answered some, but they're up to 17th in defense now and this did not look like a team that could be an average defense. So they're trending the right way.
- [92:24]
A
And well, how about this? In that 32 game streak, the 21 and 11, they're eighth net rating, trending the right way.
- [92:30]
B
And Kalkbrenner off the bench is a real guy defensively. Like he's a, he could, he, he's a problem defensively. The perimeter guys will all get better. And I, they, they are, they know exactly what they want to be defensively. So they're, they're number one in opponent free throw rate and number one in defensive rebounding. Which means they do not beat themselves. You have to beat them. And they are, they allow fewest corner threes in the league. And I said this way early in the season, like all these numbers have been there since the start of the season. And just the other mistakes they were making were, were sabotaging their defense. But like the groundwork was laid for a competent defensive team. They had a structure, they had things they wanted to accomplish and they were starting to accomplish them. And now the other parts of their defense have caught up and their offense has completely exploded. But that's the question to me is can they become like a top 10 to 11 defense in the NBA? And if they can, I think I don't see why 50 wins is out of bounds next year. Why would it be? And that would be a huge jump. What are they going to win this year? I don't know. Maybe they could win 44 this year.
- [93:34]
A
42.
- [93:34]
B
But yeah, 50 something next year, why not?
- [93:37]
A
I've been pretty good over the years at identifying when some team has, like just being a year early on somebody. I remember the OKC the year they finished 40 and 42. Right. It was the 22, 23 season. Now, it didn't take a rocket science to think that a team with a bunch of draft picks and Shay we knew at that point was going to be special, like, that they were going to be really good. But I remember, and I remember talking about the podcast at the time they played LeBron in the game, when LeBron broke the record, and watching them and how they handled that whole experience. And they just kind of wanted to keep the game going so they could because they were trying to beat the Lakers. Like, they. They just had a calmness and a competitiveness to them. I was like, there's something really here. I feel that way about the Hornets. I felt that way about those warriors teams in that 13 season where I was like, there's something actually really here. This isn't just like a fun story. Like there's, there's like something special brewing. And I really feel that way with this Hornets team. I don't think this is like, I know they're not even 500 yet, they're 30 and 31. But I think they have the foundation, especially the White trade. They have. I don't know if Bridges is there long term or not, and I assume Lamelo is, but they have this Dallas pick that's top two protected in 27.
- [94:56]
B
It's a great asset.
- [94:57]
A
They have a Miami pick that's top 14 protected this year and unprotected in
- [95:02]
B
27, the Rogier pick.
- [95:05]
A
What is their Iguodala move is my question? Because Golden State came out of that 47, 35 season. Draymond wasn't Draymond yet. They basically had Curry and Clay and some Barnes. But their big move is Iguodala. They dumped some contracts, they added two first round picks, they went and got this amazing fourth banana for them, and that made Their team go up a level? Could it be Giannis? Could it be Bam Adebayo? Could it be Anthony Davis? Could it be Trey Murphy? Could it be somebody like Isaiah Hartenstein? Okay, so he just trying to get off his money. It's that there's not as many candidates as you think. But I think that's the next step for this. I think it's a playoff warrior guy that can come in and be like one of your five guys.
- [95:52]
B
Well, and they have time. Like it's funny how. How fast this goes in the NBA because this is a feel good story right now. And and you know they, they don't have all three of Kipple and Miller and LaMelo on max deals until 2829 and then they will or I'm sorry until 2930. That's the end of Kanippo's rookie deal. So they have time but they gotta use these next two or three years to take advantage of that salary cap space and that cap tax apron flexibility. That will go away if and when all three of those guys are on max deals and get someone in the door who can help them win now because they're going to be ready to win big. And I do think it needs to be somebody who I don't want to. I don't even think you need to lean defense. I just think you need to be a good defensive player and fill some gaps on defense because that's. And probably have some size. But. But they should absolutely be active trying to find like they were one of my favorite just for total, for fun. I didn't think they would do it nor do I think they should do it. But like Anthony Davis popped into my head when Nico Harrison got fired. Like too expensive, too old. But Bam is a good name. I don't think the Heat ever want to trade Bam. But like a guy, a guy like that who defends but doesn't gum up your offense, which is obviously hard to find. But they're going to be on the hunt for somebody because these three guys together, there's. This is a real thing what they're doing offensively.
- [97:16]
A
They have all their own first round picks plus those two other ones. The other piece is new owners which is similar to the warriors situation. Right. The warriors brought they Lacob and those guys bought that team right around 2011 12. So it was like early on and they've kind of revamped the back. They're actually spending money which is the secret problem with Charlotte was Jordan was one of the worst owners of all Time. We love Michael Jordan. He was just a terrible owner who was cheap and made bad decisions. It was poorly run behind the scenes. They hired Charles Lee, who's great, who by the way, Charles Lee was involved with the Bucks when they won the title and the Celtics when they won the title and I think is one of the best coaches in the league. They're not that far away. When you think like the foundation of those three guys versus like Curry who turned out to be one of the all timers, just Curry and Klay versus those three together, talent wise, it's like you're at least in the vicinity and then you can patch it around. And I think the knipple piece, the, you know, all jokes aside, but he's 20 and he's putting up stats that a 27 year old would do and the stuff they're doing with him in games. To have somebody who's that young, who you have on a rookie contract that you can still kind of build around. It's a little reminiscent of when the warriors had that huge discount for Curry forever, right? What was he making like 10 million a year for like years and years?
- [98:38]
B
I think it was like a four year, $44 million extension.
- [98:41]
A
Yeah, they were able to just patch shit around. That's basically the Knippo contract. Lamella is a maximum and they're going to have to pay Brandon Miller this summer I think and he's earned the contract now.
- [98:51]
B
And, and speaking of Lamelo, I, it's. I am like an all time like Lamelo defender. I never got off the Lamelo is good thing. And I do think it'd be interesting to have a conversation with him because winning is this weird feedback loop where finally the team is winning. And I do think he's modulated his game as much as young Lamelo Ball can modulate his game. Like a lot of the crazy early clock threes, they're being trimmed down a little bit that he's trying harder on defense and more consistently on defense. There's always going to be moments where like only LaMelo Ball could take that shot. There's the only player in the league who would do that. But I do think he's playing like a calmer, more just clean, normal style of basketball. And I wonder, I would love to ask him like in these previous years with Charlotte, what was to stop him from doing whatever he wanted. He couldn't look around the roster being, well, that guy can shoot and that guy should shoot and that guy should shoot and we're losing anyway. They had A couple good play in years with Borrego and stuff. But now he looks around, he's like, that guy's fucking awesome. That guy's scoring more points than me. And we're winning all these games and all of a sudden we have a lot of hype around us and a lot of buzz. No pun intended. Maybe I can, maybe I can just take 12 shots tonight and 15 shots the next game and 11 shots the next game and not take 25 shots and have a usage rate that gargantuan and everything's cool. And I do think there's. I think his game is changing a little bit in that sense.
- [100:23]
A
I was completely out. I didn't think he was going to get it. And usually by year six, if there's no signs of life, it's not happening. But I'm with you. I think, I think he's toned back a lot of stuff. What's interesting about him on this team and why he's such a good fit in so many different ways. And again he's playing 27 minutes a game. Like they're very careful with.
- [100:43]
B
Remember they brought him up on the bench a few times on back to backs.
- [100:46]
A
They're easing him in, they'll get a rebound and he can do what Matt Maxey is a good parallel to this where he's just off right and he's like full speed. They have. They're not just like this half court team or this team of three point shooters. They also have this fast break side and when he's off these guys split to the sides and they know what to do and it's really hard to defend at home. They're finally starting to get some sellouts. Like there's some real energy for some of these games. I think they're going to be really
- [101:16]
B
dangerous about a team that fans are dying to love. And I mean like local fans.
- [101:20]
A
Oh my God, I feel so bad for their fans.
- [101:22]
B
They're waiting to fall in love with a team like this and it's like, I hope they make the playoffs. I would, I would love, I mean Pistons, Hornets. Round one would be unbelievable theater.
- [101:34]
A
Terrifying series if you're the Pistons because you're playing a team that started out 4 and 14 and has basically been a 50 win team since. And they're going to come out the eight seed and they're going to come
- [101:44]
B
out like, I don't ever see them deviating from how they play because it's the playoffs. They're going to play fast, they're going to play loose they're going to shoot tons of threes and play with tons of bravado. That's just who they are.
- [101:56]
A
It's funny. So comparing anyone to the warriors is insane. That's why I said we're going to crazy town. But in 2012, 13, when we were working together, we never could have predicted anything that happened with that warriors team. Right. We just knew they were super fun. And it was like, I'm glad Steph Curry's going to turn out to be a really good pro, because there was three years there where we didn't even know if he's going to be able to stay in the league with his ankles. And thank God, he's really fun to watch. And. And I'm so glad we've gotten to this point. And hey, Klay Thompson's really good, too. And then over the next three years, it built into this way bigger thing. They have the foundation to do something pretty special with this team.
- [102:31]
B
So. So here's. So I was looking through the last 25 years of teams that sort of like, unexpectedly and organically snapped into something that.
- [102:42]
A
Was this your first chatgpt foray?
- [102:44]
B
Yeah, I did a little chap. I did one chap each GPT. And then I felt horrible about it and I stopped.
- [102:50]
A
Why'd you feel bad?
- [102:51]
B
I just, you know. Yeah.
- [102:53]
A
To try it.
- [102:54]
B
I'm. I'm old school. Can we have just like, writers and writers doing. Writing. Doing the writing.
- [102:59]
A
Just gone to the library and research this. And encyclopedias.
- [103:01]
B
Hey, look, we take. I. The low family takes out books from the freaking public library. Okay? You think I'm buying my daughter all the goddamn babysitters, clubs, books and all that stuff? No, you're taking some of those out of the library.
- [103:11]
A
The Greenwich Public Library is one of the great libraries.
- [103:13]
B
You don't have to blow up my spot like that.
- [103:15]
A
Well, it's a great place.
- [103:18]
B
It's got its ups and downs
- [103:21]
A
and
- [103:22]
B
there really isn't a perfect. This is the most interesting. So a lot of them have one or two. One or both of these things. One, a consensus. Even as this is happening and it's early, this guy's going to be one of the 15 to 20 best players in the league. At worst, like a. Like a true blue, like Derrick Rose or Damian Lillard or Steph Curry or On and on for your sort of like organic builds. Couple of exceptions or two, there's a coaching change that dramatically changes how the team plays. So, like the Bucks with Budenholzer, the Hawks with Budenholzer. That's a good comp. Like a team that didn't maybe have a top 20 player. And there's a couple more like the Bulls with Tibs, the Pacers. The Pacers are actually an interesting comparison. Like the Paul George runs.
- [104:14]
A
Yeah.
- [104:14]
B
George Hill. They have a coaching change, but Paul George I think becomes it all. Obviously became an all NBA player. And do you look at. Are you. Are we like. I think probably they do, but they don't. Do we have like an all time superstar on this team?
- [104:29]
A
I think that's where this falls apart. Because you would have to say the Knipple Miller combo as how unusual it is to have two wings that can both shoot and are almost interchangeable in some ways. Almost as the superstar. Because it's a little like what the Celtics had with Jalen and Jason for a while there where it's like these two forwards. Like what is this? Nobody has anything like this. And maybe that's the superpower, just being able to have all these different lineups. But with those two guys as the centerpiece and you can go bigger or smaller with them.
- [105:03]
B
I think you gotta, you're, you're, you gotta include Lamelo. It's the three of them together, right? Cause he's the best passer. He's also six, seven, the same height as Brandon Miller and one inch listed taller.
- [105:15]
A
I just, I don't want to put this on Lamelo because I'm just, I'm, I'm so nervous that it's going to fall apart for him at any time.
- [105:21]
B
Well, the health stuff has been that. The health stuff is. Now the thing that makes me the most nervous is just the ankle stuff that keeps popping up and making him mistime. But, but the three of them being 6, 6, 6, 7 and having the combined passing, shooting, ball handling skills that they have is really unusual.
- [105:37]
A
Well, how many teams in the league right now have five guys who if the situation was right, could absolutely easily score 20 points a game? Like, think about that. Yeah, it's not many. Cause there's a scenario where it's like, hey, Miles Bridges, we need you to score 25 points a game for three weeks here. He could actually do it if they wanted him to. So for the people here listening who are like, this is the most fucking insane thing I've ever heard.
- [106:04]
B
I don't think anyone who's paying attention could think this is insane.
- [106:08]
A
Well, the advanced metrics are demanding that we had the conversation. When you're first in that rating for 32 games, you have to have the conversation they play Dallas at home on Tuesday. They're going to win that. Dallas has given up on the season. They're at Boston on Wednesday, home, Miami on Friday.
- [106:26]
B
It's a fun one. That's a must watch. Charlotte, Miami Friday. That's must. That's going on my calendar.
- [106:31]
A
At depleted Phoenix on Sunday, at Portland, at Sacramento and then at San Antonio on March 14th. And then they have a little Miami, Orlando home game combo after that.
- [106:41]
B
But these, they wax the spurs, by the way. They would wax them, but they wired a wire, beat the spurs at home in Charlotte.
- [106:48]
A
So at Boston, home, Miami. This is now, it's midterms for them. It's the midterm exams in high school. It's like, okay, you have our attention now. Go to Boston. You're not going to have Jason Tatum yet. This is a team you should be able to play with. You're going to shoot a lot of threes and be super comfortable. And then Miami, that's the team you have to get through in your division. Can you split these? Can you win both? If you lose both, then we were in crazy town, and this was stupid.
- [107:16]
B
But I think, no, you can't. You live in two games. Can't take you out of crazy town. At Boston's a tough game and Miami's Miami.
- [107:24]
A
And I know, but I. I just brought the 2013 warriors and the 2023 OKC into this. That's where we got in the crazy town.
- [107:31]
B
I tried to temper it by bringing in some teams who became very good and did not perhaps accomplish the great history that the warriors accomplished because they were all very good teams. But no, you stay in crazy town. You can't be dissuaded by two games, especially one against Miami, in which something as historically significant as the 2026 Southeast Division title could be at stake. I mean, the pressure that all the players must feel knowing the is in the air in that game is palpable. People less better, stronger. Humans have quaked under that kind of pressure before.
- [108:06]
A
If we wanted to go to crazy town, we would go to the 1978 Seattle SuperSonics, who started out 5 and 17 and ended up losing the finals in seven games to Washington and then winning a year later.
- [108:22]
B
You no 1.
- [108:22]
A
But that is the craziest start to finish season. 5 and 17 made the finals.
- [108:27]
B
I think you. I think there are like, probably less than 50 people who are still alive who can have. Who can say one sentence about the 1977, 78 NBA Finals. Who can say one coherent sentence?
- [108:42]
A
I could probably name Nine of the guys on the team. I mean I, I think basketball card team.
- [108:47]
B
I think you guys are going to be like, like D day soldiers who like every year there's like fewer and fewer of you left.
- [108:54]
A
Well, that's like my dad with the season tickets for the Celtics. He's like fifth oldest now for having the tickets straight through. I think there's some guy who's like 90, but my dad's like moved into the top.
- [109:06]
B
Has he been honored as like, you know how they do the season ticket holder of the game. They bring him out and the waves.
- [109:11]
A
I honestly can't believe he hasn't been. He hasn't been brought to mid court and waved to the crowd. What's he going to do? They're going since 1974.
- [109:19]
B
Wow, that's. That's astonishing. I'm actually surprised.
- [109:22]
A
The 73, 74 season brought him a title. So anyway, yeah, Charlotte, I think this is real. Okay. Before we go.
- [109:29]
B
Okay.
- [109:30]
A
It's March, it's spring training. I have, I have the Mets over, under for the year for you over.
- [109:39]
B
I don't even know what it is.
- [109:42]
A
Well, you could go, oh, where is that it over is. I can't find it. Well, 90 plus wins is minus 134. You win in 90 games.
- [109:57]
B
Probably not.
- [109:59]
A
You don't think so?
- [109:59]
B
I think they look. I'm following it from afar. It seems like a little bit of a problem that every day there are quotes coming out of spring training that amount to like, it turns out playing this new position is a little trickier than player X thought it would be. And that's like five players on the team. And like Brett Beatty now has gloves for seven different positions. Like, huh.
- [110:20]
A
It's never a good sign.
- [110:21]
B
I hope this is going to work. It seems I'm a little worried, frankly. But of course I'm taking the over on whatever the over under is.
- [110:27]
A
Are you watching Survivor 50?
- [110:29]
B
No, I haven't watched any Survivor. I've never watched an episode of Survivor. Not one.
- [110:34]
A
Did you ever think of going on?
- [110:38]
B
I, I would probably not subject myself to it.
- [110:43]
A
What would be your strategy if you went on?
- [110:45]
B
I don't even know how it works. We do tasks and then someone gets voted off. And I know everyone forms alliances and their people alienate other people and their backroom deals.
- [110:55]
A
My strategy would just attack espn.
- [110:59]
B
Are there teams? I'm seriously, I'm sorry. I'm not bringing anything to the table.
- [111:06]
A
I can't go on because I wear contact lenses and I have allergies. Otherwise I would have gone on.
- [111:12]
B
Yeah.
- [111:12]
A
I would have loved it.
- [111:13]
B
There's no workaround for that. No.
- [111:15]
A
I feel like that's an excuse being in the outdoors. Well, now I'm too old. My wife was my dream person to go on though, because great at challenges. She would own the challenges. But gets crazy if she's not eating and you have to like, you're really hungry on Survivor. She's just absolutely.
- [111:34]
B
There's not like a hotel nearby where they're getting. Getting catered meals. No.
- [111:38]
A
So she'd be just an absolute maniac. But then would win the challenges. They wouldn't be able to vote her off and she would just be yelling at everybody about the race. Just like, who ate the race? There was more rice here.
- [111:50]
B
I'm trying to think of what reality show has ever tempted me.
- [111:53]
A
Like, that would be amazing Race.
- [111:55]
B
That's the one. That's the one where I travel around the world and solve problems and puzzles and go on chases. That. That seems fun.
- [112:04]
A
What's the craziest thing you've ever done?
- [112:08]
B
The craziest thing I've ever done.
- [112:09]
A
Well, joining a reality show would be the craziest thing. If you told me one time I applied to be on the Real World, I'd be like, that's the craziest thing you could have told me.
- [112:18]
B
I don't think I have any.
- [112:19]
A
Did you have anything? You're like, I can't believe I did that.
- [112:22]
B
I mean, I still can't believe I ever got on television to talk about anything. You were there with me the first time I went on TV and I almost had to force you. You almost had to take me to the emergency room.
- [112:33]
A
Well, I couldn't even convince you to a podcast.
- [112:35]
B
No.
- [112:36]
A
That took two months.
- [112:38]
B
I think all of this is crazy. I'm trying to think if I did anything.
- [112:42]
A
I'm glad you mentioned that. I think about that sometimes. All of this is crazy.
- [112:45]
B
I don't think I have any. I mean, I did crazy stuff when I was a cops and crime reporter at the Stanford Advocate in Stanford, Connecticut. Like talking to murderers.
- [112:54]
A
What was the craziest trial you ever covered?
- [112:57]
B
Craziest trial ever. It's sad. It was a home invasion in which an elderly retired teacher was murdered in her own house by.
- [113:07]
A
Oh, my God.
- [113:08]
B
I don't even remember who exactly did it. It was someone that they didn't know. Was kind of a random thing, if I remember it correctly. I covered all sorts of horrible stuff and talked to lots of scary people and lots of very interesting people in Strange places. It was crazy.
- [113:23]
A
I was on a jury once in the late 1990s, maybe 2000 when I was living in Boston. You ever on a jury?
- [113:31]
B
No, I've always gotten out of jury duty.
- [113:34]
A
I was on a jury and it was this case where these guys got in a fight in an elevator and somebody got stabbed. And he said it was the guy who did the stabbing, said he was defending himself. And we had to do this three day trial and decide on and whether he did it or not. It was pretty tense.
- [113:56]
B
Sounds tense.
- [113:57]
A
Yeah. I won't tell you what the verdict was, but it was.
- [114:02]
B
I'm going to come back with the better answers. I'm sure I've done something crazy. That's just.
- [114:07]
A
Did you ever drive cross country with anybody? No. Trying to think of. You're just a very practical guy.
- [114:15]
B
I once chaperoned a high school band trip to Florida from New Jersey. I was one of eight faculty members who did that. It wasn't crazy. It was just incredibly unpleasant from start to finish. That involved.
- [114:26]
A
That sounds terrible.
- [114:27]
B
That involved a group. I mean, we're talking like 60 children, high school children and eight teachers. And that involved. One of the nights was a dinner at Medieval Times in Orlando. And this was like night four of a five day trip. And we did have a serious conversation among the faculty members about whether we could sneak alcohol into Medieval Times and no one would be able to tell because the cups were pewter and whether the risk reward equation was worth it
- [115:00]
A
because, yeah, what a way to get fired.
- [115:02]
B
So sick of the whole trip.
- [115:05]
A
Medieval Times, like in the Cable Guy.
- [115:07]
B
So, yeah, it's still going. We actually had to talk about this with some friends the other day. There's like 10 medieval times around the country if you want to organize a work of an outing.
- [115:16]
A
Did you follow this whole thing that people were worried that Jim Carrey had been replaced?
- [115:20]
B
I did see. I saw photos that looked like, you know, different than I remember Jim Carrey. But people age and then the Hollywood people have things happen to them and they don't look bad.
- [115:30]
A
I thought it looked like he had fillers in his cheeks. I didn't think he got replaced.
- [115:36]
B
There is a litany of people who. I see them in movies and I'm like, that person looks like that now. That's like, doesn't even. I wouldn't have guessed that in a million years.
- [115:46]
A
I like the. In general, I wonder if anyone's ever been replaced in our lifetime.
- [115:51]
B
You're going down some dangerous roads that could get us into some poor. Well it happened in Dave.
- [115:56]
A
But that was a movie. Well, it did happen. It was just in a script. Kevin Klein came in. He looked just like Dave did it. Have you seen Sicario?
- [116:09]
B
I have.
- [116:09]
A
You have? You like Sicario?
- [116:10]
B
I loved Sicario is. I haven't seen it. I saw it in a hotel by myself in Los Angeles on some road trip. Cause it's a classic. My wife will never watch a movie and I didn't quite know what I was getting into. I knew the gist of it. And I remember being like, this is so much better than I even thought it was going to be. And I would like to rewatch it. I have not seen any of the sequels, I think. Are there multiple sequels?
- [116:31]
A
Multiple sequels. The original Sicari was on Netflix and we're doing a live Rewatchables tomorrow, 6pm ET, me and Fennesee and Chris. To kick off CR Month, we have two other movies. Knocked Down Fargo, his second movie of Sierra Month. And then today just announced to Live and die in la. I don't know if you know that one.
- [116:52]
B
I don't think I've ever seen that movie. Yeah, I don't think I've ever.
- [116:54]
A
William Peterson. It's a classic. You can find it. I don't know if it's on Netflix, but yeah, those are the first three. Two more spots. So five movie month for rewatchable. So there you go. Thanks to McLob Ultra for sponsoring this live stream. Thanks to Khao and Eduardo and Jackson and Kevin and Chris and everybody at the Ringer as well. Zach Lowe, you have a podcast Tuesday morning.
- [117:16]
B
Tuesday morning.
- [117:17]
A
Thursday morning.
- [117:18]
B
That's right.
- [117:18]
A
Thursday morning will be the. Holy shit. That Hornet Celtic game was the game of the year. And Jason Tatum's coming back on Friday podcast. So I'm looking forward to it.
- [117:26]
B
Wow.
- [117:28]
A
Good to see you, my friend. Thank you.
- [117:29]
B
Always fun.
- [117:30]
A
Thanks, everybody. Must be 21 plus on president select states for kansas in affiliation with kansas star casino or 18 plus on president d.c. kentucky or wyoming. Gamble problem. Call 1-800-gambler-1-800, my reset. Call 888-797-7777 or visit ccpg.org chattinconenetic or mdgamblinghelp.org in maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in massachusetts or call 877-8-hope ny or text hopeny in new york. For louisiana, call 877-770-7867.
- [118:13]
B
It's a season 2 playoff race with tgl presented by sofi Sunday at 9pm
- [118:18]
A
eastern jupiter links vs boston common golf
- [118:20]
B
Monday at 7pm eastern los angeles golf club vs new york golf club Tuesday at 9pm eastern the bay golf club vs jupiter lynx keep up it's golf watch on espn, espn2 and the espn app.