← The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Bill Simmons Podcast
Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
02:12:51
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- [00:00]
Bill Simmons
It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. The NBA season hitting full stride. Don't foul out on your chance to win with America's number one sportsbook. Bet on fun markets like Live Quarter, player props and parlays. Plus enjoy our new NBA Player Prop pages. Your one stop shop for player props that include FanDuel's exclusive performance trends, tracking the last five games for top markets. They even do that. The app is safe, secure and easy to use. When you win, you'll get paid instantly, so download the app today. Bet with FanDuel, official partner of the NBA. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21 plus in President elect states game problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com Sundays with Rossillo are back Next. This episode is brought to you by the White Lotus Season 3. One of my favorite shows. Beautiful locations, twisted characters, unexpected scenarios. The White Lotus is going to Thailand. You know I'm excited. I mean we're doing Prestige TV again. Me, Mallory and Joanna Robinson. We're doing right after every show putting a recap episode on the Prestige tv. Same luxury, new reservations for all of us. How are they going to make the show better? The answer is the show's great no matter where it is. I'm excited to be in a new country with our weird, mysterious, probably creepy White Lotus gang. But I love this show. Watch a new season in the Emmy Award winning HBO original series the White Lotus. New episodes now streaming on max. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I have a new rewatch of what's coming for you on Monday. We did an Oscar winner. You can watch that as a video podcast on Spotify. You can also check out our Ringer Movies YouTube channel where it's gonna be as well all the videos and clips from this podc on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. But we are now a video podcast on Spotify so you can watch it, you can listen to it, whatever you want to do. One thing to promote Celtic City, our nine part Celtics docu series that we did for HBO and Max is going to be Sunday March 3rd. The first episode. Nine straight weeks in a row. Spent four years on this. Obviously meant a lot to me and I think we did an awesome job. I can't wait for everybody to see it. I'm in Boston because we did the premiere on Friday night had a bunch of people there. I got to talk to Joe Mazzulla about the town. So exciting. Joe Mazzulla. I'm making him come on the podcast. He was a really fun hang, but. But we had a really fun premiere of episode five, which was about a part of the 80s with the Celtics. So you know, that's at my wheelhouse. But very excited for everybody to watch it and we'll be talking about it a bunch over the next few weeks. So wanted to mention Fanduel because On Tuesday on FanDuel Sportsbook you have the Mavs and the Lakers playing for the first time since the blockbuster trade. So it's the first lucre game of I'm sure there's going to be like 40 lucre venge games. FanDuel is giving all customers a 50% same game parlay boost for that matchup. So just go all in one way or the other because the easy way to do this is be like I'm going to take the Lakers and I'm going to take the overs for the Luca. If you're going to take the overs, go big, go like 40 plus, go 10 assists, try to stagger it so you get this huge thing. Or go the other way and just assume just about everybody is going to be going on the over with Luca. So zag, do a couple unders, do the couple unders with the Mavs to win either way, 50% same game parlay boost and remember goes live on Tuesday. Look for it, then claim the pbt, the profit boost token. Place your bet for Tuesdays big game. Look for it in the carousel on the FanDuel sportsbook app. Coming up for the first time on Sunday this year, I think it's like year seven for us. Ryan Marcillo. We're going to talk basketball and basketball, more basketball. And we're trying to sprinkle in some goofier stuff as well. He's next. First reference from Pearl Jet. All right, we are taping this 4:15 east coast time because I'm in Boston. Just went to the Celtics Knicks game. It's another emotional year for us. Rossillo Sundays with Rosillo. We're back. We made it another basketball season to talk about, complain about breakdown. Plus we have a whole bunch of other things too. We have the NFL drafts coming up. I'm sure you have some movie and music thoughts, maybe some Oscar thoughts, maybe some White Lotus thoughts. I never know what you're up to. How are you?
- [04:57]
Ryan Russillo
I'm great. A lot of reading, a lot of history, beginning of Civilization. If you have any questions, we'll get to them. Maybe after the basketball.
- [05:04]
Bill Simmons
I'm ready. You want to talk some James Poke? Like, I don't know where you want to go?
- [05:09]
Ryan Russillo
No, I'm just. I'm on this huge Susan Wise Bauer kick. But again, I think we should table it.
- [05:16]
Bill Simmons
Okay, we'll save it for later. I just went to Celtics, Knicks. I have just the slew of thoughts. We're watching the game. I'm sitting with my dad, and I just think the Knicks are a bad matchup for the Celtics. And we're saying that the whole time we're like, this team can't play with us. And the Celts get up to, like, in the mid-20s. It's like, 24, 26. And then the Knicks come roaring back. They come roaring back, man. Brunson and Towns. And we're watching like, should we be scared witch? And then now it's like, it's nine, it's seven, then it's six. But we slowly realized that Tibbs has just left his starters in basically the whole game, and that's one of the reasons they're hanging around. And my dad's freaking out. I'm like, no, there's no way. Towns isn't going to play, like, 46 minutes. Like, we're fine. And then the Celts end up finishing up. Here's. Here's where I'll start with you. Does Tibbs know that the regular season, especially in the east, doesn't really matter and that you just want to be one of the first four seeds, and that to put Miles, like, the Miles that he put on some of his guys today is insanity? I don't get it. I just don't understand it.
- [06:18]
Ryan Russillo
He doesn't care. I mean, I'm sure he understands it. In the brief time that I had access to him, we were at ESPN together. He's so smart about basketball. Like, I think I left the room just going, do I know anything?
- [06:31]
Bill Simmons
You doubt yourself?
- [06:32]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah. Cause, I mean, I've told this story before, but we were watching a game together, and then it was an inbounds. It was a simple inbounds play. And I just went, what? What? And then he ran through, like, seven different things that you could do defending this inbound. And I just was like, jesus. And look, this is what everybody says about him. We know that he's brilliant, but, yeah, he doesn't care. And I think when you looked at the earlier part of this week, because New York, we know the record against the top Three teams, Boston OKC and Cleveland, they're 0 and 7 now, but they played in Chicago on Thursday, and it was an overtime game. And here are the minutes. Precious 46, McHale 44, Cat 43, Brunson 38. McBride played 42, and then he played three other guys, 17 minutes. So they go into that Cleveland game fresh off of that, where Cleveland, I think, was coming off of back to back. And then you could see within that game, you're like, they're toast. Boston had the extra rest day. New York had the rest. So, you know, that third quarter was awesome because Brunson and Cat are awesome. But, like, I couldn't believe he put Cat back in after he left with.
- [07:35]
Bill Simmons
The lead after he twisted his ankle.
- [07:36]
Ryan Russillo
They're down 18. It's like, do you want to get stuck with some Tatum ISOs? Yeah. With two minutes to go. Let's do it.
- [07:42]
Bill Simmons
Well, he had. We're looking up, and I'm looking at the thing. I'm like, I don't feel like Towns has come out. My dad's like, no, no, he's come out. And then he played 33 of the first 36 minutes of the game.
- [07:51]
Ryan Russillo
Right.
- [07:52]
Bill Simmons
So he just went all in on that third quarter with his starters, basically.
- [07:55]
Ryan Russillo
And they were great.
- [07:56]
Bill Simmons
Try to hang around. And it was. But the Celtics were playing their bench guys, too, and, you know, trying to keep their guys fresh for the fourth quarter. And then that fourth quarter started, and you could see it at the game. You could see, like, Hart, who was, I thought, really good. He's like, there any stoppage, you could see his chest heaving. And Towns started to slowly die because Towns was awesome. But he ran out of gas, and the Celtics knew it. They started targeting him, and then Towns finally twisted his ankle. But I just watched stuff like that, and I know we've talked about this tip stuff forever about how he doesn't care about the minutes, but I think it's really reckless. This team just needs to get to the playoffs. With these five guys being able to play 40 minutes a game. When we get to the playoffs, they don't need to do it. Now you look at the standings, it just doesn't matter after the top four and whether they're going to be two, three, or four, I don't really feel like it matters. I think it matters for them to be healthy, you know? And any Knicks fan I know is like, we'll just wait till we get Mitchell back. It's like, all right, so that's going to be a big X factor in the playoffs. This guy who barely ever plays, keeping your fingers crossed on him, keeping your fingers crossed on towns and 6 foot 1 Brunson and Nananoby, who always gets hurt. To just be able to roll like this for 40 minutes a game, I think it's irresponsible. I don't get it.
- [09:11]
Ryan Russillo
We've spent so many years though talking about guys not playing with effort. Effort, culture, all that stuff came up big time this past week with the Four nations tournament, how great that was. And I spent some time talking about just like, look, the sports are a little bit different, but I think the NBA is in a much better place than, you know, when you go back five years ago, I mean, it depends on which snapshot you want to take of like, man, these guys miss a lot of games. And again, a lot of that stuff was team mandate. So I don't know that any of it like I know the actually the answer to it. None of us loved it. So I do feel guilty with what I think is Tibbs approach that, you know, when you're on his team, like, this is what we do. Like this is what we do. This is how hard we play. And this is, this is the approach. And it seems like the players don't mind. It's just funny when they do those player surveys, it's like, which coach would you least want to play for? Tibbs is almost always the answer because they see this stuff well.
- [10:01]
Bill Simmons
And then Towns is somebody that I just think, and I thought he was really good in the first, in the second and third quarter, I thought he was really good. But he's also somebody I think you have to be a little careful with. He hasn't exactly been Cal Ripken Jr. Over the years, you know, but when they got back in the game, Brunson got cooking, which he does from time to time. The Celtics got, they did the same kind of the offense slowed down, but Towns, who had Tatum and a bunch of forwards guarding him, which Celtic strategy. And then, and then Towns was like, I'm gonna actually use my weight and I'm gonna bulldoze into dudes. And you know, the refs were letting him do it and all of a sudden he went from like 0 points to 20 in about, I don't know, it felt like 20 minutes of real time, not even game time. So when you watch the Knicks, when you see them when they're all playing well and you see the five guys and they'll have these eight minute stretches where it makes sense. I just don't think with the way he plays the minutes and the bench. I don't really take them seriously as a championship contender, which is one of the things I want to talk to you about today. I think they're one level below. I really only think it's OKC and Denver and the Celtics and Cleveland right now. And I have room for a bunch of other people that these next 30 games can climb in, but I think the Knicks are a level below those four teams right now.
- [11:20]
Ryan Russillo
You're right. And it's not just today. And I thought Boston came out with like a great, like just an awesome approach, just pushing the ball in transition. You know, that's when they're starting five with those five guys playing and you're going, okay, this almost looks unfair. Like there's just. And Jaylen Brown was awful. I know. He has points so bad. Yeah. I just couldn't understand, like, what his approach to the game was today. Even though if you just box score, you'd be like, what are you guys talking about?
- [11:44]
Bill Simmons
It got better. It was a really bad first half. It got a little better as the game went along, but it was not a great game for him.
- [11:50]
Ryan Russillo
So, you know, you're down 27. I mean, we could talk minutes because you're right about the minutes part of it, but to get it from 27 to 4 is exhausting. Yeah. Right on top of whatever Tibs is doing in the sub pattern. And then Boston, you know, the. The only blemish on the entire like two year resume of this team is that you'll go, are you guys shooting the other team into this game right now? Like, what the hell is going on? And a lot of that happened in the third quarter. But like, back to your original point, I. Did you have an open mind before today about the Knicks being in that one line of. Right. Okay. Because let's run through the resume. It's. It's Owen Seven now against the three teams in Boston, Cleveland and OKC. And it's also not close. In those seven games, they're losing by an average of 20 points in those seven.
- [12:37]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, they're down big in every game at some point in the game.
- [12:40]
Ryan Russillo
These are blowout games. And they've allowed 125 points per game against those three teams in those seven games. So the data tell, like, I really enjoy them. I think they're fun. I can't wait to see what happens with them in the playoffs. But as great as Cat has been, you can see against big wings and what Tatum's looking for. Like, Tatum had a couple like, end of the first half, he had two switches into Cat, where he drives right on him. Right?
- [13:05]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [13:05]
Ryan Russillo
And. And I think one worked, one didn't. They weren't. Like, one was a really tough make, and the other was a decent look. And then that play at the very end, when he hits the three, he knew, like, Cat was like, I don't want to run up because this guy's, like, attacking the shit out of me.
- [13:19]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [13:19]
Ryan Russillo
Tatum comes off the screen knowing he's pulling up because Kat is so far away from him. And that's just what they're going to do. And you're right. Like, maybe Mitchell Robinson helps. Of course he'll help if he's healthy. But solving this seems like a massive ask of that guy.
- [13:36]
Bill Simmons
I think the Celtics are a very bad matchup for them with all the guys they have to throw up. Brunson with all the ways they can attack. Towns with the fact that their two wings are just better than the Knicks. Two wings. And those guys are really good. And, you know, I thought Josh Hart was fantastic today. And especially just watching, you know, there's stuff you can see on tv, but then in person, just the motor that he has, and now he's just trying to catch his breath every time the game stops, you can watch him. He's just, like, taking these big breaths because he knows he's got to, like, go like a rabbit again. But I think it's a bad matchup for them. And Cleveland, weirdly, is. I think even though Cleveland's been great and they have 10 losses and they're playing after we tape this, I think Cleveland's a more realistic series for them than the Celtics are with the. With the size the Celts have now. The question with the Celtics is, poor Zingus we saw today, who's moving great. Are we getting that guy in April and May? Drew, they've been really kid gloves with the whole season. They just. Chad Finn of the Boston Globe was writing that he's on the DJ plan. I thought that was great. I'm going to steal it from him. He's just on that. Yo, man, just be there in April, May, June. We don't care about right now. Feel free to just whatever, pick your spots today. He gave a shit when he gives a shit. And Porzingis is healthy. This team is still, in my opinion, the best team in the league. I just don't know. Is that team going to be there in April, May? We'll see.
- [14:57]
Ryan Russillo
They were so lucky with the injuries last year, and then facing A Dallas team that wasn't going to be able to exploit some of the weaknesses to the point where they didn't even really need Porzingis. So the whole design of this Celtics team, the whole reason why you move the assets you do at the time, and then remember the contractual obligation to Porzingis because, like, even if you liked him in that Washington season where he's pretty good, you're like, man, that is a leap. That's a leap of faith. But they had to do it to get him to opt out. So look, when they're right that first quarter, you're right. Like, I don't know what it looked like in person, so I'll defer to you here. But that first quarter was just a nice little reminder. And they've been on a really good run here, by the way too. After that weird 500 play stretch, which basically is going to happen to anybody in today's NBA. But that first quarter, I was like, man, is this nasty. And they just do a great job. And here's the most important stat. Like I'll ask it. What do you think the most important stat from today's box score was in this game? What was it?
- [15:54]
Bill Simmons
Rebounds.
- [15:54]
Ryan Russillo
Brunson. Zero free throw attempts.
- [15:58]
Bill Simmons
Oh. Cause I had a Brunson thing for you. Something important happened today. There was a moment my dad and I agreed. I think he's become the preeminent flopper in the NBA. I actually have to put him the.
- [16:12]
Ryan Russillo
Reviewed play or the inbounds when he was coming right to left.
- [16:16]
Bill Simmons
It's just a whole bunch of them. He's doing it on both ends. He's doing it on defense and offense. By the way, kudos to him because it's working. But I think Harden's getting a little older, right? Maybe his best flopping days, probably 20, 18, 19 range. Trae Young was there for a second, but I think some of the rule changes have gotten his head. Brunson's top of his game. He's flopping on picks, he's flopping coming off screens, he's flopping when somebody bumps into him on a drive, he's flopping for charges. I think he's the complete package. It was some of the best flopping I've seen.
- [16:51]
Ryan Russillo
He's all first team, no question.
- [16:54]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, maybe I'm premature. I mean, he's clearly in the running for mvp. Maybe I'm vaulting him up too high. But just what I saw today, I was in awe.
- [17:02]
Ryan Russillo
He didn't even get any free throws, though. I mean, this is a low free throw attempt game. I think at the end of the third quarter there was 16 total or I think Cornett then took a couple. So it was.
- [17:13]
Bill Simmons
They were letting them play. Especially on the Towns drives. They were letting them play.
- [17:17]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah, but see Towns, you know, it's. It's amazing how productive. I don't know if there's anything in the NBA that I dislike more from start to finish that's more productive than his drives. And I think they're better this year than they even were at Minnesota because like the Minnesota tries are like, what are you doing? And he's been so good. He's. This is the perfect role for him because there's all these other guys. You could have a McHale game, you can have an OG game. You know, Hart can go off. Brunson's still going to be the focal point in all this stuff. He's a stretch five, which I think is almost mandatory if you're trying to be a title contender. But we know their defensive numbers are not good. We know what they are against those other top teams. And you know, today wasn't really close, man.
- [17:57]
Bill Simmons
It wasn't. Well, they also. It's weird with Bridge, with Bridges and OG I texted during the game because one of my favorite Russello jokes is the. Is, was Tobias Harris out there? Oh, no, he was out there for the last hour. Like, I always think of you anytime I'm watching a game and I'm like, oh, it's Mikhail Bridges. I forgot he was playing. It's exciting. And then OG but both of those guys had these really like quarter long stretches where they might inbounds the bottom. Like, oh, yeah, Bridges. There he is. They haven't figured out the same way the Celtics, I think with White and Holiday, who can. Who can, you know, take a backseat? Cause you have. Tatum has the ball a lot. They'll run the place for Porzingis. Jalen Brown will have his first five minutes of the second quarter as my dad's just bitching in the stands the entire time about the shots. And White and Holiday have figured out how to kind of sneak in and out and get little fast break layups or get like threes in the corner. And they're always involved. And what I saw today and what I've seen on TV too is there's just games where Bridges and OG just aren't involved.
- [19:00]
Ryan Russillo
Did it feel like it was anything that was happening to them or because like Brunson got off to a really slow start and then those guys go nuts I mean, what was it, 38 points in the third quarter?
- [19:10]
Bill Simmons
They were throwing everything at. They were throwing everything at Brunson. They were really disciplined.
- [19:15]
Ryan Russillo
And Brunson got Cornette a couple times. And then I thought there was another time where it was like the same movement where they're going to get Brunson down the left side. And they brought Tatum over as like a third defender. They just were like fine, you know, So I thought there was these little moments in there that kind of back up what you're saying. So go ahead.
- [19:32]
Bill Simmons
Well, you know, I was ready to almost lead the pod with Tatum and then he had this really terrible stretch where I was like, this is still like the last hump for him because the first half of that game, his two way game, and you saw it in the Philly game too, and there's been a. And I feel like it's getting better as you go. His passing, it feels like he's going to be between 7 and 10 assists almost every game. Now when he's locked in his rebounding and his Swiss army knife stuff that he does on D where he can guard basically everyone on the other team, I do feel like he's going up a level, but there's that still that last piece where it's like he never has like the awesome 48 minute. Oh my God, he blew my doors off game. It's like three quarters of the four, and I think that's the last level for him. If you want to be on that SGA Jokic level, you've got to do it for the whole two and a half hours. And right now he's at about an hour 45. Does that sound too nitpicky?
- [20:31]
Ryan Russillo
No, no. My thing with Tatum is been pretty consistent that as much as I loved him and I think I appreciate him, that there was never going to be a time where like that guy's the best player in the world. Like, that seems impossible. That seems like an impossible goal to accomplish. Would you agree with that? Are you, are you hesitating?
- [20:58]
Bill Simmons
No, because sometimes when I watch them, when he's really going well, I feel like he's got all the pieces. But I don't at this point. I think it would have happened. I think we would have had some sort of nudge where we would had some crazy stretch, you know, that all the greatest players have had, like what SGA just had, where SGA was just like, I'm just going to score 50 points a bunch of times now and my team's just going to win Every game and, and it's just that's the last. So he's like a level below and that. You know the. All the MVP ballot stuff. The MVP is basically done. It's the top two guys. But I think Tatum's. I think he's been the third best guy in the league this year. I would put him against Giannis. I would. I would pick Tatum. I think he's had a bigger impact on a winning team. I know his team's been a little bit better, but he's. The durability thing is the piece with him that I just think he doesn't get credit for. He fucking plays.
- [21:47]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah, he's. Look, this is the most I've ever appreciated him.
- [21:50]
Bill Simmons
Me too.
- [21:51]
Ryan Russillo
His passing, the way he beasts. Guys like a team. The other day we were just kind of like bullshitting cause Goldsberry and I had done constructing our most complimentary starting five of today's players. Right?
- [22:03]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [22:03]
Ryan Russillo
And I just, I put Tatum on it because I felt like he provides so much. I mean he's basically playing point guard at this size.
- [22:11]
Bill Simmons
Right.
- [22:11]
Ryan Russillo
And I don't know that that gets talked about a lot nationally.
- [22:14]
Bill Simmons
And guarding Towns on the other end like that. There's nobody in the league doing that other than him basically.
- [22:19]
Ryan Russillo
Right. Which is what he did in the NBA Finals. Now granted the game's different, so it's not like he's down in the post against Moses Malone for 40 post ups a game. But he was, he was a center on defense and he's playing point guard. And maybe somebody else brings the ball up, but then they bring it back to him and it's his decision making. And so maybe there's some output stuff that doesn't line up with the SGAs or the nights where Ant goes fucking crazy, which is just so much fun to watch. Like Ant having one of those nights is probably still my favorite thing other than just a reminiscent Curry flamethrower game. And honestly, I would tell you there's certain moments with Ant that I probably still like more than any other single player in the league. But now Tatum just has more options around him. I still would say Boston at its peak has more options offensively than even Oklahoma City does. I don't know if there would be much of an argument there. So even though you're not getting that peak output that would maybe put him in the belt conversation. I am so happy with his approach that it's. I'll take this. His assist ratio on the advanced stuff has never been better. You know, a lot of the advanced metrics are like peak for him. But there's also. It's not just a counting thing. It's not even the metrics. There's just an eye test thing with him where how steady he is. Like, he had a baseline drive on OG where he went right into him and moved him off the spot and got the free throws. And I'm like, how many other guys 20 plus feet away would have the balls to drive at OG and look like the stronger player? So I've never, like, I've never been more in love with his game than what I've seen this season.
- [23:53]
Bill Simmons
That's how I felt today watching it. I just feel like he's maximized a lot of stuff that he's been working on the last couple of years. And if you took this version of Tatum and you put this version in the 22 finals, I think they beat the warriors and he wasn't even close to being able to do 40% of the stuff that he could do. Now. I love the rebounding. I don't think he gets enough credit for that. And I love the durability and the fact, you know, JJ said something about this because he was talking about the Lakers. This was even before the Dallas game when he was, you know, because they're way better on defense. The Lakers, I think they're like third in defensive rate in the last 20 games. And, you know, they were even playing better before the trade. And somebody asked him what was different and he's like, you know, the NBA is about just playing hard, just like making sure your team plays hard every night. And I think that's a skill that Tatum, where if he's taken off a quarter in Charlotte, you really notice it because of the, the level of intensity that he has game to game, quarter to quarter, half to half. When he doesn't have. You're like, oh, shit, what's wrong with Tatum? What, what's he doing? He's just jacking up shots. Why isn't he rebounding? Like, it's really, like, glaring. So anyway, I think he should get probably more credit for, for that. I don't know if there's an extra half step for him. Maybe we'll find out in the playoffs.
- [25:07]
Ryan Russillo
You really think, you really think it's. Well, I think you've already answered that. It's kind of a closed case. But I mean, at any point do you think. I mean, I guess he's got a couple years to go, but is he going to surpass sga?
- [25:20]
Bill Simmons
I don't Think it's ever going to be as easy like that for the Jokic stuff, that Jokic night tonight, it's just easy for him to create shots for everybody. The best possible shots. Right. Last night's a bad example, but for the most part SGA is just like he's just getting the 35, he's just getting to 40. It doesn't matter what you're doing, he's just going to get to where his points are. And I think Luka is in that category too. I don't know if Tatum's ever going to be at that level, but I think to me, he reminds me. It's a weird one. And I know, I'm thinking about it probably because we just finished this nine part Celtics docu series, but to me he's more like a Havlicek type. He's this Swiss army knife that does all these different things for your team. He's never the best scorer in the league, he's never the best assist guy, but he just, he's just additive and I think that's the level that he's gotten to. So he probably reminds me of Havlicek the most, even though he's taller and you know, he's got size, all that stuff. But just like they could play small ball center with them if they wanted. He could also play point guard for them if he wanted. The other thing with the Celts that I think Cornette has been playing really well.
- [26:26]
Ryan Russillo
I'm.
- [26:26]
Bill Simmons
Pritchard's been up and down. Hauser's coming back, but they're getting more of a bench than I think. And then Horford being able to only play like 18, 20 minutes, their benches is back and I think I wouldn't be surprised if they went on a little run here over the next three, four weeks because they haven't really had a run this season. We're going to talk about that after the break. Some teams that we think might make an actual run, I wouldn't be surprised if they had a streak. Have you felt like they've had one kick ass three week stretch? Other than you'd have to go back to November? I just don't remember it.
- [27:00]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah, but I mean, aren't they. Are they 12 and 3, 11 and 4 in the last 15? I mean, I know it was, but.
- [27:06]
Bill Simmons
I'm talking about like what the stuff they're doing last year where they were just like ripping people's heads off for three straight weeks.
- [27:12]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah, they're 10 and 2 in their last 12. Yeah. This this kind of feels like it other than, you know, the start. Maybe we're in the middle of it. They also had that, I don't know, what is it, seven game stretch there in November. So the weird thing was just a couple games against lesser opponents. The Toronto game, they could have lost a New Orleans game and the standard for them is so much higher. But that first quarter was so impressive that, you know, I was just a nice little reminder, I think on a national stage for everybody of like, this is what this team is capable of and I don't know that there's anybody else. Now, granted you talk about the OKC defense, which I'm sure we'll get to a little bit later, today might be the tiebreaker for a lot of different people, but those first 12 minutes were just awesome.
- [27:54]
Bill Simmons
Let's take a break and I want to talk about teams that can make an actual run. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. State Farm helps you score an affordable price when you choose to bundle home and auto insurance with personal price plan and bundling home and auto. It's a pro move. Just another way you can save on your insurance needs. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer, availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. So I want to talk about intriguing subplots with 30 games left. And some of them are easy to figure out and some of them are a little harder to figure out. But the number one subplot to me, and I can't believe I'm even saying this and makes me mad that we're in this position, but what can you do? I think the Lakers are the number one subplot to watch over the next 30 games. The Denver game was so interesting last night to see like the real Luca in a Lakers game and to watch, you know, their centers, whatever, they're just double teaming Jokic. They're just going to be happy with Westbrook and those like Whoever, fine, shoot 16 for 41 from 3. We don't care. We got to get Jokic. But the thing that I really noticed that people talked about when they made the Trade was just 48 minutes of Luka and LeBron or Luka or LeBron. But you always have somebody out there who just has this crazy IQ and is a really good offensive player. And I've never wavered from thinking Luka was going to be awesome on this team. I just thought it was scary last night and if I'm in the West, I think there's four teams that can win the title and we can talk about a couple of wild cards. I think the Lakers are an official wild card for me.
- [29:46]
Ryan Russillo
I agree. And it's the defensive numbers. Like you mentioned it, if you go back the last 15, that's the number one defense in the league. They're 12 and three. It's the best record over the last 15. The offense, do you understand that?
- [29:56]
Bill Simmons
What's your explanation for that other than just they're playing hard?
- [30:00]
Ryan Russillo
Well, I think having some of the pieces. I thought Rui played his ass off last night. Both, I mean you can look at the points, but it was what he was doing defensively. Now granted Vando comes in and just hacks the shit out of Jokic, but you know, it's like they're not going to call all of these, although they tried to call all of them on Vanderbilt because he didn't play a ton of minutes. But you know, the Cam Reddish thing seems over. The Dalton connect minutes are limited if you start looking at these things. So I think we gave Vincent being healthy with Vando being healthy with them liking this Rui center matchup stuff because they're basically forced to figure this out because the Jackson Hayes minutes usually aren't that great because the longer he's out there, the longer there's going to be something that happens. In specific to last night, Bill, I loved that game. Okay, me too.
- [30:45]
Bill Simmons
I thought it was really impressive because.
- [30:47]
Ryan Russillo
We look at the playoff and you go bracket wise, like how far can LA go? I was like, well they're going to run into Denver again, so that's not going to work. And last night's one result. But I thought this coaching staff showed the difference. Where it's always about the roster for me, but there are little times like Kenny Atkinson this year with Cleveland, like clearly there's something better with this, with his approach to basketball. I think JJ and this staff did such a fantast job of last night's preparation. The possessions, when you really looked at what they were doing, there's these non spacing lineups that Denver runs out there outside of Jokic where the Lakers are like, if this is what you're going to run out, like we are not going to pay attention to Aaron Gordon. We're not going to care about Westbrook. They had a play and I'll, I'll finish here. But LeBron was on Jokic kind of in the paint, left side. Dalton is in the dunker spot, ignoring Aaron Gordon. Okay. He's basically under the rim. The other two wing players to the right, the Lakers defenders, are in the paint. So that's four players in the paint against Jokic. The only one that was providing any spacing was Michael Porter Jr. At the top of the key, and Rui was defending him. But Rui was only a foot beyond the free throw line. And you saw it possession after possession, where you could see the Lakers, like, specifically the way they prepped that game last night. I think that's a credit to JJ and the staff going, we've got to come up with something new that's Jokic specific. And it worked. And, you know, really wasn't much of a game. On top of all the Luca stuff that I know you want to get to.
- [32:11]
Bill Simmons
Well, they did the same thing to that Celtics game that we both went to in LA where they kicked the Celtics ass. And part of it was they just were really well prepared. And they used a bunch of things against the Celtics that I had kind of been waiting for, you know, somebody to do, like, oh, you're going to try to force it to Porzingis. Great. That's going to throw your whole team out of whack. Like, keep. Keep giving the ball. And Porzingis had a good first quarter. Nobody else did. And then it's like, oh, here's the top of the second quarter. This is when Jalen tries to get his offense for six minutes. We're going to make it really hard for him. And it was just. You were just watching it going, oh, this team's got their shit together. Last night against Denver, you would think, well, why doesn't everybody do that against Jokic? First of all, it's hard to do it. Second of all, it's hard to commit to it. And your guys have to be really disciplined with it. But they also have smart players. Like, everyone makes fun of Luca's defense, but he's still a really smart basketball player. Right? LeBron, I think, has been noticeably better on defense for what, a month and a half now.
- [33:12]
Ryan Russillo
I don't know what the heck was.
- [33:14]
Bill Simmons
The first month of the season where it was like, oh, my God, he's just not playing. He's a DH now. Now he's really active. And they just have size and physicality that I think they. You saw it against the Celtics. They bullied the Celtics. Now, you know, slightly different team. But when they have those, when they have Rui and LeBron and Luke all together like those. That's like 800 pounds of dudes.
- [33:37]
Ryan Russillo
So are you in? Are you in? Are they your fifth team? Are they the first team outside of your tier one playoff, like, title?
- [33:45]
Bill Simmons
I wrote down.
- [33:46]
Ryan Russillo
You teared us up.
- [33:48]
Bill Simmons
No, I wrote down things I like about them. And the number one thing is just always having Luka or LeBron out there, one of the two or both, I think it's just really hard to play them. You don't have a moment like you had with the Knicks today where Brunson has to sit down. It's like, all right, it's campaign time. Cross your fingers. Like the Lakers just never have.
- [34:06]
Ryan Russillo
That campaign was nice though. At first ship he was.
- [34:09]
Bill Simmons
He made three in a row.
- [34:10]
Ryan Russillo
That's probably the best thing ever for a Knicks opponent. Like, hey, don't forget like tight game, second half campaign. Made three in a row in the first half. So that's good for us.
- [34:18]
Bill Simmons
He's going to think he can get to 20. The fact that the defensive numbers are like, if they were 9th or 11th, the Lakers, I'd be like, okay, that's a little fluky. There's probably some when you're the top five, when you're in top three, like, that's not fluky. At some point, I think JJ is a legitimately good coach. And I thought what they did last night to Joker, who was terrible because they made him terrible, but then you just look at it. It's just at some point, it's Math. Last night, LeBron and Luka had 59, 19 and 12. If you're going to get numbers that look like that from your best two guys, you're going to be heard from from a couple playoff rounds. So if I was a Laker fan, I'd be excited. But this is why we all went. That's when the trade happened. This is fucking crazy. You don't just get to add the fourth best guy on your team in the league to your team. Just, you know, for Anthony Davis of Max Christie, who by the way, has been playing great.
- [35:12]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah, he has been good. I think some of the worst anti LeBron content that I've ever seen was Lucas stat lines those first three games with LeBron, like I get, if you hate LeBron, you hate LeBron. Brett come up with better evidence than that. Because I went to Lucas first game, you know, that he had played in like two months. I went to Crypto that night to watch him play against Utah and he was so tired, like four times up and down the court. I'm like, oh, man. I'm like, he's so tired. Like, he doesn't even. Because, you know, he hasn't been complaining because he's on a new team. Like, you haven't seen him. And it was kind of funny. Like, obviously last night's the best that he's looked with the Lakers. That first half was incredible, the way he was kind of getting into his shot. Not like, basketball's funny, man. You can be this incredible player. Here we are talking about somebody who has a chance to be the best player in the world, and it's like, I'm. I'm new here, so I'm just trying to fit in for a little bit.
- [36:11]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [36:11]
Ryan Russillo
And if you're a coach and you're. It's Luca, you're like, don't be trying to fit in, dude. Just do what you do and then we'll figure it out around you. And just because the stats were bad and then they had the weird breaks, like, all that stuff was so stupid. He was great last night. And it was funny too, because he. He made a play and then he cycled out. The three point line was wide open and he didn't get the ball back. And it's the first time I've seen him pissed with the Lakers. And he put his hands up like, you idiots. Like, what are you. What are you doing? And I'm going, this is great. This is. This is the. Like this. That's what you want out of this dude. You want him pissed that he didn't get the ball back. So I'm. I'm shocked. The defensive numbers are that good. The last 15. It's been a big part of this turnaround. They finally beat Denver, so I'm not ready to say that they've solved Denver. You know, there's just going to be some spacing stuff in the playoffs where if it's Westbrook or if it's Brown, and I think Even Michael Porter Jr. Is like a coin toss game. Gordon is a matchup specific guy, but they're going to ignore him even though he's shooting like over 40% from 3. They just did a great job of loading up on all this stuff. But look, man, you're closing group in a tight playoff game. If the three perimeter dudes are LeBron, Luca and Reeves. I have a hard time believing that defense is going to be just living on stops though in the playoffs, right?
- [37:27]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, they're probably trying to outscore. Um. Yeah, the. The Luca dialogue was. I feel like a lot of the sports dialogue is just getting worse because it's. It's. It's just this quick rush to whatever judgment. You know, he could have one bad game, his first Laker game, and it was like, oh, my God, this is why the Mavs traded him. And it's. Nobody thinks of the human element of this guy. Thought he was going to be the next Dirk Nowitzki in Dallas. He had no idea the trade was coming. They trade him, he's got to move to la. He's got to figure out where he's going to live. He's taking shit about that he's got a drinking problem and that he eats too much, and they didn't want to give the max. And they're just, you know, laying into him left and right, leaking stuff to make him look bad. On top of that, he's got to figure out how he fits into this new team. He's got to play with LeBron, who's this guy he grew up watching, right. He's got to figure out how he fits in. Offense, new coaching staff. He's not in shape. It's like, oh, you think this is going to go bad for, like, a week? Yeah.
- [38:25]
Ryan Russillo
And he hadn't played. He hadn't played in basketball.
- [38:28]
Bill Simmons
Like Perkins three days. Perkins tweeted three days ago. It's going to be another two, three weeks before we see the real Luca. He has to get in basketball shape, get his legs under. And then last night, he tweets, like I said, give Luca time. It's like, yeah, no kidding. We got to give Luca time. Sure. To adjust to his new team and get back in shape. I'm pretty sure he'll be able to figure this out. He's had one of the five best offensive starts that anybody in the history of the NBA in their first seven years. I think we're going to be okay with Luka Doncic. I'm not worried, but people were worried. It's.
- [39:01]
Ryan Russillo
I don't know who was really, like, who did you respect? That is what was worried?
- [39:05]
Bill Simmons
Well, that's. But some people have platforms who this is. This is kind of what you do. You just go nuts, get mad. Luka Doncic was terrible. This is why the Mavericks traded him.
- [39:19]
Ryan Russillo
I would say 50% of your tweets are about LeBron or Jordan. Then you should just be banned from the platform.
- [39:25]
Bill Simmons
It's fair. We talked to Elon about it.
- [39:28]
Ryan Russillo
Have you been hanging out with him much lately?
- [39:30]
Bill Simmons
I haven't talked to him. Lakers have the six best odds on FanDuel. Right now. So it's not. It's not a hot take to say, oh, I think they're a title contender. I think that's where they are. I think they're in that wild card team. I went back and I looked at. I think this, this needs a name. I came up with post all star late bloomer. But I think we could do better.
- [39:52]
Ryan Russillo
I don't know. That sounds great.
- [39:53]
Bill Simmons
Thanks.
- [39:54]
Ryan Russillo
What is it?
- [39:55]
Bill Simmons
Well, these teams that over the course of the last 30 games at some point got their shit together and became a real contender. So the reason I thought of this was because we watched it happen in Dallas last year. Dallas was 16 and 4 to finish the season. They were fifth net. They just remember they had a big winning streak, then they had a losing streak and then they started winning again. And at some point it felt like there might be something there in a real way. Right. 2023, it happened with the Lakers. They were 16 and seven down the stretch, fourth net. They ended up making the Western finals. 2022 is when the Celtics were they 25 and 25 then went on the run. Their last 22 games they were 17 and five first in that.
- [40:37]
Ryan Russillo
Weren't they below 500 too?
- [40:38]
Bill Simmons
Like it might have been maybe 24, 25. They made the finals. I threw out the two strike, not strike, the COVID years. And then in 2019, Portland finished the last 25, 19 and six, fourth net. And they made the western finals. So this does. There is a team. There's a track record of a team we didn't think was in the top three or top four moves up there. And for me it's either the Lakers or Golden State. And we're taping this right now as Golden State's playing and they're beating up on Dallas. But those would be my two picks, Golden State or the Lakers. And I'd probably lean Lakers because of Luca and the talent. Who would you have.
- [41:17]
Ryan Russillo
It feels like the Knicks are on the Lakers line of this though, right?
- [41:20]
Bill Simmons
That's fair. But I don't think they would. You necessarily say they would be an out of nowhere team. I guess it could conceivably happen. I. I think they're more likely to have more injuries and weird shit happen than to go on a run. But maybe I'm wrong.
- [41:35]
Ryan Russillo
Okay, but here's. Here's something that I like about the Lakers because I think this is always an important thing and because I think guys play more often now because this could get really misleading sometimes you're looking at like a matchups against the better teams. You're like, okay, who was there? You know, like, even when I go through those Knicks seven games, it's basically everybody played in those games. For the Knicks, I think OG Missed one. So, you know, there's different times where you go head to head and you're looking at it, getting ready for the playoffs. Like, how do they do against each other? You're like, all these guys miss these games. But again, like I said, it's been a little bit better. The Lakers are one of three teams in the west with a winning record against teams. 500 or better. So clearly OKC's 20 and 9, the Rockets are 20 and 15, and the Lakers are 15 and 12. And I think that's important. Memphis is under.500, Denver's under.500, the Clippers under.500, Minnesota's under.500. So again, if I said only three teams, the rest of them are. Are all under.500. I think for me, on the Lakers, part of it is we're totally aligned on the LUCA thing. Like, give me a break. Like, this guy at this age, with his track record and because he hasn't played in two months. So you're like, if you were watching these early games, going, what's wrong? So this is what you think it's going to be now you just think, this is who Luke is going to be.
- [42:43]
Bill Simmons
Like, he's going to be a complete mess.
- [42:44]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah. Do you know how absurd that is? So it's. We're not even at peak luca. They're putting together this performance. They have this defensive profile the last month or so, but, you know, bracketed out four or five. They're playing Houston. You're probably picking the Lakers because you trust their offense more than you trust Houston's offense. Right. Okay, then. Then guess what's waiting for them on the other line.
- [43:07]
Bill Simmons
Sadly, I. Sadly, I did this. And it. As you know, I hate the Lakers, and this made me sad.
- [43:12]
Ryan Russillo
Okay, but how?
- [43:13]
Bill Simmons
Series by series, I was like, oh, my God, they're going to fucking make the Western Finals.
- [43:17]
Ryan Russillo
So they're beating Oklahoma city in a 14 matchup. You're crazy.
- [43:21]
Bill Simmons
Oh, no. I'm just saying there's a scenario with these brackets where if they're not four or five, if they can somehow avoid OKC till the Western Finals.
- [43:29]
Ryan Russillo
Right. And then you think they're going to beat Oklahoma City?
- [43:33]
Bill Simmons
Well, so they would have to get to two or three.
- [43:35]
Ryan Russillo
Okay, all right. I think it's fine.
- [43:36]
Bill Simmons
But there's completely reasonable. Right now, they're 34 and 21. Memphis is 3719 and Denver's 37 and 20. I think they have to leapfrog. I don't think they'd want to play okc, but I also wouldn't blindly pick OKC against the. Against Luca lebron either, would you? I mean, I know I would pick them to win, but I wouldn't be like. I wouldn't be like, oh, lock it in, write it in marker that OKC is 100% winning. I'd be a little nervous.
- [44:04]
Ryan Russillo
Well, I want to see more of the chat stuff, but defensively, the chess stuff has been really good. So, yeah, you know, it's. It's not the same as the Luca thing, but, I mean, we're looking at Chet Miss in three months and then trying to come back. He's not taking a ton of shot. Like, I can't wait to see what that guy looks like and what this team looks like. So there's just. Look, they still have a massive issue with certain matchups, bigs. And normally I would say, what are you going to do against Jokic? Like, do you really think you're going to survive seven games against, like, having. Rui was great last night, but let's not lose our minds about who this team is.
- [44:37]
Bill Simmons
I still have Denver and OKC in the Western Finals, but I think if you start thinking about series by series, game by game, this Lakers team is scary, especially with the fact that they're actually well coached. Right. And there's. They're a matchup team. I think they're a team that could win on the road in a game seven. Right. How many teams could actually go on the road and win a game seven. It's not the longest possible list. This is a team that would not be afraid to go on the road. I think the Vincent thing is important for them, too, because that's a guy who they signed who's been banged up or sucked for a year and a half, and then people forgot that he wasn't good, that people forgot that he was actually good and valuable in Miami and was in big games for them and kind of knows where to go and what to do. He's one of those guys, and you need a guy like that on a weird team like this. And the fact that Reaves has gone up a level and JJ loves Reaves, I mean, the best thing JJ and LeBron have done have been just pump Reeves up, pump him up, make them really think he's this gifted offensive player. And I think he's playing with so Much confidence now. Like, he's. How many teams have a third guy who's as good of an offensive player as Reeves is? Not a long list.
- [45:46]
Ryan Russillo
It isn't a very long list. I mean, Pat Bev really went for it last night. I think he tweeted out they have the best one through four in the NBA. And I was like, who's the fourth? It was like, Rui. I'm like, all right, going. I think you're forgetting about Boston. And then OKC with Chet. I think there's a lot of guys that you could pick from there that would be in the conversation. But as far as, like, number three guys with. With Reeves, I mean, is it. Is it Derrick White? Is it.
- [46:10]
Bill Simmons
I was thinking somebody on Cleveland is like, Mobley. Mobley.
- [46:13]
Ryan Russillo
It's just a completely different kind of player. Like, I'd rather have Mobley than Reeves. But offensively, like, initiating your own stuff, it's not even a conversation. Reeves is good at it. Right.
- [46:22]
Bill Simmons
So when you're talking about good offensive players, a good litmus test is, that guy scored 45 last night. Are you surprised? Right? Like, if Derek White scored 45, I'd be like, what did he make? Like, 12 threes? What happened? But Reeves had that game the other day when everybody was hurt. What did he have, like, 38, 40?
- [46:41]
Ryan Russillo
No, he had 45. He was 45. Right.
- [46:45]
Bill Simmons
I was. Get the Pacers shocked. Yeah.
- [46:48]
Ryan Russillo
But the other starters are Dorian Finney Smith, who, by the way, like, we hadn't even mentioned yet for the defensive part of what they've done. Right? Huge. Getting. Getting D'Angelo Russell away from this basketball team. You know, I try to tell you guys, Lakers fans, I know. I get it. You know, he makes a couple threes and points, and you guys are super into that. But getting him away from this group has also been a big transition from who they are right now. And, like, I feel bad we didn't even mention Dorian Finney Smith at the this point. I mean, he made one shot last night, and he was a plus 20.
- [47:18]
Bill Simmons
That trade made me mad.
- [47:21]
Ryan Russillo
Why? Because you like D. Russell so much?
- [47:23]
Bill Simmons
No, because I like the. I wanted the Lakers to not be good. I was like, fuck, they got Finney Smith finish was good. He's an additive player. There were some guys around the trade deadline that I was wondering, like, I still can't believe the Lakers didn't go after Nick Claxton.
- [47:39]
Ryan Russillo
Was he available?
- [47:40]
Bill Simmons
I don't know. What. What are the Nets doing?
- [47:44]
Ryan Russillo
I. I mean, playing their ass off.
- [47:47]
Bill Simmons
I know, but they Traded to get their picks back for some tanking plan. And then they just can't stop beating teams.
- [47:53]
Ryan Russillo
I know. I just don't think Philly was ready for the Keon Johnson Watford two man game to close. They had no scattering report on that.
- [48:00]
Bill Simmons
Watford was like, I gotta. I gotta get this video to the scouts.
- [48:03]
Ryan Russillo
I tried to turn that game off like four different times last night. Yeah, I hate. I hate watching the Sixers play basketball. Yeah, they are disgusting. Okay. I can't. But I can't turn it off. And then I was like, it's close. And I'm like, look at Brooklyn. Look at this team.
- [48:22]
Bill Simmons
No, they can't stop.
- [48:23]
Ryan Russillo
It's now they're ahead of them. They're ahead of them in the standings and the E flipped it.
- [48:27]
Bill Simmons
In that Philly game, they had a couple moments where they blew the lead and like, all right, valiant effort and somebody else would hit a three, all of a sudden they'd be winning again. Whatever Philly is doing to Embiid is one of the weirdest subplots of not just the year, but the decade. I have no idea why he's playing and he looks miserable. He's falling down. I think twice as much as he's ever fallen down. Looks like he's legitimately.
- [48:50]
Ryan Russillo
What's his F per 100. Do you know?
- [48:52]
Bill Simmons
I think this is the highest the last couple of weeks. He's just. He had that play when he ran in to contest the play in the corner and just kind of went into the third row. He could stop. It's pretty brutal. So the case for Golden State, really quick for to be the late bloomer is just the combo of Jimmy. I don't know what it is about Steph. It would be the greatest feature somebody wrote, but it just seems like everybody that passes through Steph's life, they turn into Gandhi. For the first three weeks, the way they talk about him, it's just this religious experience to be Steph's teammate. And Jimmy is like, so happy. Like, there was that clip of him diagramming plays in the huddle. This is a guy who was just sitting next to the water cooler the last three months of the Miami season. And now he's like, draymond, come here. I have an idea for a high screen. And he's just so invigorated. And I think they're legitimately dangerous looking at their schedule. And they're beating Dallas today as we're taping, but they got Charlotte. Orlando's a mess at Philly. Great at Charlotte. At Knicks at Nets. And then they have a seven game home stand against Detroit, Portland, Sacramento, Knicks, Denver, Milwaukee, Toronto. Like it's a team that could go on like a 12 to 2 run and I wouldn't be surprised. So that, that would be the other one I'm kind of looking at. I guess the thing that, the thing to watch is whether Curry can go up a level again or not. Because we haven't seen it this year from him.
- [50:16]
Ryan Russillo
His life looks a lot easier having somebody like Jimmy Butler out there.
- [50:19]
Bill Simmons
That's the thing.
- [50:20]
Ryan Russillo
And the shooting numbers would back it up. The three point shooting would back it up. Even watching the beginning of today's game, even though it wasn't just super aggressive, like having Butler just be somebody else that people are worried about. And of course they ran some other play where it's like Curry's the lead block on the cut, so everybody freaks out. And then Butler kind of slips a screen and then he's the second cutter behind it and he's wide open in a way that, you know, he's probably like, this must be. I just can't imagine playing basketball for a living and then getting the chance. Like, no wonder everybody's in a good mood. So like, this is what happens, like when he moves, all of this other shit happens. And then now my life is like this much easier. Although I do have to point out on a couple broadcasts, like, our memories can't be this short. Like, Butler has a nice game, he's super aggressive. I mean, he was taking 10 shots a game from Miami. It was the lowest field goal.
- [51:10]
Bill Simmons
Not going to foul line at all.
- [51:12]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah, no, he was actually still was like, not. He's, he's one of the most like hyper free throw rate guys in the league because he pump fakes at the rim and guys just go for it all the time. So like, if you played him in a series, you go, you guys are going to stay down against him now. He's shooting a million free throws, but he's just more aggressive now. You can tell he's taking 13 shots a game. Again, the shot count goes down because he's taking so many free throws, right? But he, for all the stuff that he talked about in Miami, like, they took my joy from me, like he broke up with a quarterback. You're just going like, we just saw this guy destroy his value around the league. And he makes a couple cuts and hits some free throws and it's like, man, Golden State, like, you know, everybody's. Golden State's probably still scared to death. Of like, what the long term thing could be here, but in the short term, it's. It's awesome to see, you know, some of these possessions late in games where you could just see stepping like, I'm running around, I get the ball, I'm trapped, I throw it to somebody else, and I don't even really want to take some of these shots. And then you have people being like, oh, his. His shooting is dipping. It's like, well, no shit. So I think his life is going to be a lot easier now. I still don't even think they're in the Lakers class, though. Are they you to have him in the Lakers class?
- [52:29]
Bill Simmons
I don't know. I want to watch it for a couple of weeks because, like Butler, he's averaging almost 10 free throws a game for Golden State. As we're taping this, they're beating Dallas by 20 and he's already 6 for 6. He's plus 24 in the game, but watching the way he's playing with these guys, it. It's weird. It reminded me of when Moss got to the 07 Pats and was just like, so delighted to be in a real offense with Brady. And he was just like skipping around, right? And just so happy and had so much space and knew that if he was going to do whatever, the ball was going to be there. And Butler, watching the space that he has, but also the connection he has with Draymond, I wasn't prepared for. I wish we were watching the game right now. But the high IQ thing he has with Draymond, I think has been fun to watch where he's posting up and Draymond's at the top. They're playing this weird two man game, but everybody's so scared of the Curry shooting. I'm not counting this team out.
- [53:29]
Ryan Russillo
It reminds me a bit of when Brian Heideck was cast as the pool guy in Melrose Place and he was like, look, I'm just. I'm just happy to be here.
- [53:36]
Bill Simmons
Who is it? Brian who?
- [53:37]
Ryan Russillo
Heidek.
- [53:39]
Bill Simmons
Who's that?
- [53:39]
Ryan Russillo
I think he played Brian Heideck. Yeah, he played the pool guy in Melrose Place. It just reminds me a lot of.
- [53:45]
Bill Simmons
That pool guy in Melrose Place. I feel like you're making this up.
- [53:49]
Ryan Russillo
Google it.
- [53:51]
Bill Simmons
Brian Heidek. So is there anybody else you would put on the late bloomer list?
- [53:56]
Ryan Russillo
Late bloomer list? Is there any. Is there any hope for a healthy Orlando?
- [54:03]
Bill Simmons
So I had them marked down. They've been so. I mean, they were 6 and 14 in their last 20. So there's only their offense in their last.
- [54:11]
Ryan Russillo
Their last month. They're the, they're the third or fourth worst offense in the NBA. And boy, when it's bad on offense for the Magic, I'm surprised it was that high that they were only 27.
- [54:22]
Bill Simmons
So the other three had marked down. It's not going to be Detroit, even though there's a lot of good Detroit numbers for the last 20, 25 games.
- [54:30]
Ryan Russillo
But how many people do you think right now know what seed Detroit is?
- [54:34]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, not only is Detroit, for the people listening probably locked into the six seat, it's not like an easy series for the Knicks. Like they're going to be favored. I would pick the Knicks, but I don't know if that's like the easiest series possible for them. The other two teams I have Minnesota just because, who knows, 31 and 26. But maybe the. Maybe something.
- [54:55]
Ryan Russillo
Is Randall playing. I'm out.
- [54:57]
Bill Simmons
Is that good or bad? If Randall's playing, you're out. Okay. And then the only other one, I mean, Dallas, I guess we have to watch. But the only other one I was thinking was the Clippers. If, if there's like a long, healthy Kawhi stretch, a Bug Donovich resurgence, they're really well coached, like the Lakers and you know, could. Could something blossom with them in March? I wouldn't rule it out.
- [55:24]
Ryan Russillo
You want to do a little Clippers profile? Do you want to save it?
- [55:28]
Bill Simmons
Want to take a break?
- [55:29]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah, let's take a break.
- [55:30]
Bill Simmons
This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Wherever you like to watch the game at the arena, the bar, home, wherever. Enjoy every moment of the NBA season with an ice cold Michelob Ultra. And you know, we've done some stuff with them, so they'll send me the Michelob Ultra. I'll put it in the fridge. It's really interesting what happens. People come over, they want a beer, they go, oh, Michelob Ultra. Or I've never tried one of these. I've heard you talked about it. 100% approval rating every single time. Keep it nice and cold. It's delicious. There's only one way to watch your favorite teams drop buckets, and that's with a bucket of Michelob Ultra. Stock up on Michelob Ultra for the NBA season. Michelob Ultra, a superior light beer. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2025 Anheuser Busch Michelobotra registered light beer St. Louis. This episode is brought to you by Redfin. I love looking at real estate. You could be in the market to buy or Rent, whatever it is. You might just like scrolling around, seeing what's out there. You might like checking out neighborhoods, then going to Google Earth and then checking out the overhead thing in the neighborhood. I don't know, whatever floats your boat. You might like looking at big mansions on the water in Massachusetts. I can neither confirm or I've never done that. Whatever reason you're looking, I recommend the Redfin. Apparently, Redfin, it's gotten better every single year. It makes it fun to search all the homes for sale, apartments for rent in your neighborhood, filter for price. Beds, baths, square footage, so much more. And if you find a place you love, Redfin makes it really easy to go see it in person. Schedule a tour right now from the app. Plus, if you're looking to sell, Redfin agents know how to get you the best price possible for your home. That's because they close twice as many deals as other agents. And with a listing fee as low as 1%, Redfin's fees are half of what others often charge, which means you'll have more money to put toward your next home. So whether you're looking to buy, rent, or sell, Redfin's got you covered. Download the Redfin app to get started. This episode is brought to you by Rocket Money. So you sign up to stream a show, and then months later, you're still paying for the service long after you finished it. That sounds familiar. Try Rocket Money, a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions. It monitors your spending. It helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions. Reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to RocketMoney.com bill today. All right, more 30 games left, subplots. So your pick would be the Lakers. I think I agree with you, but I have Golden State a little closer to them than you do for a possible late bloomer. Anybody else? Well, I'm glad.
- [58:11]
Ryan Russillo
I don't think we spent enough time on Minnesota because I think we did 10 seconds on it. And I know they lost in the Houston game. That was just kind of a frustrating game. They didn't have Rudy. But that, you know, sometimes does that play to their strength. Now, when you look at some of the declining Rudy stuff, but then that also means Houston goes small because even Houston against Utah last night, they lost because they were just like Utah's size bothered, bothered Houston. And granted, Houston's kind of rotating some guys in and out, so they're not playing with like, the full cast of guys. So look, sometimes you're just going to lose to Utah when George decides to go all first team NBA. But let's just say, okay, open, like, open to the idea. Like, I feel a little bit better about Minnesota maybe than I did because in the beginning of the year when it was frustrating, it was like, this team's healthy and these other teams are hurt and they're losing to these teams. But there's just a Randall stretch here where it's like, man, this, they might just be better without this guy. And they haven't had divincenzo for a month either.
- [59:12]
Bill Simmons
You're going to go might for that.
- [59:14]
Ryan Russillo
They are.
- [59:16]
Bill Simmons
I just think they're unquestionably better when he's not out there for them. I don't know. I've been watching basketball my whole life. It just. He screws up the spacing. He. He might be a good player on other teams for that team. He's.
- [59:30]
Ryan Russillo
He's good for 20, you know, and it's like, okay, but there's just a lot of other stuff that, that we need from him.
- [59:35]
Bill Simmons
So here's what I don't love with Minnesota.
- [59:38]
Ryan Russillo
Okay, give it to me.
- [59:39]
Bill Simmons
As you know, I'm. I'm on the ant bandwagon. There's been a lot of really high volume field goal games for him.
- [59:49]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah.
- [59:49]
Bill Simmons
That I can't really explain. Like even if you just go into in January and February this year, he had a 31 shot game. He had a 29 shot game. 25, 28. Just the last two weeks. 28, 25, 28, 33, 18, 32. I don't think they're winning. Three playoff rounds with that happening would be my point. And I don't really know. I haven't watched enough Minnesota the last three weeks to understand why that's happening. But it's just a lot of three. Like he took 14 threes in a game. He took 15 threes in a game. 17 and 14. Just a lot, you know. And then I look at the free throws. Like in one game he had 28. They won by 19. He had 28 shots and 18 free throws. 25 shots and 15 free throws. It's just, it's a lot of ant that's pretty easy to stop when you get to a playoff series. So I wish they had a look, but I don't know if they have a lot of other choices.
- [60:53]
Ryan Russillo
No, they've done a good job. Like, Terence Shannon's been playing well. Clark, this other young players coming in. He's been good for him defensively and yeah, like I'm not disagreeing with any of that stuff. I just think there's certain dudes that maybe I defend because I like them, but I think I like and dislike players for very valid reasons. And for the high volume stuff with him, I think it just ends. The ball just ends up back in his hands and you know, he's getting trapped, he's getting a ton of attention and it's up to you to figure all that stuff out. I mean, he had a play against Houston where he split the screen and it was, it was two defenders that came with him and he just split it in a way where I just couldn't believe and believe like it was physically possible. And then he almost throws it down from there. And so because he's capable of doing some of that stuff, I don't know that he wants to take those shots like some other players. Like again that you just go through the list of guys I don't necessarily like, I think they're totally fine being like, cool.
- [61:48]
Bill Simmons
You did a good job on Lamelo on the, the Lamelo usage rate shot rate stuff. You talked about that in your pod a couple weeks ago.
- [61:54]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah. Per 100, he's like 2006 Kobe. Yeah, like, we haven't seen somebody take that many shots per 100 possessions.
- [62:01]
Bill Simmons
Like, ah, he should be the All Star Game. Shitty.
- [62:04]
Ryan Russillo
Well, the other reason you got so many all star votes is somebody pointed out to me after the fact and they're like, do you realize like if you. Well, the voting was still open, but if you went to the voting tab, it was done by points per game. So he was like the first option when you went to the page to vote as a fan. So also he's popular if they have.
- [62:21]
Bill Simmons
The top Instagram handles in the NBA. Him and Lonzo have two of the top five for most. Most. Most viewers like people. People like the balls they're going to.
- [62:32]
Ryan Russillo
Have to play in a lottery ones as well.
- [62:39]
Bill Simmons
Oh, before I switch topics, that Minnesota Houston game when Dylan Brooks was talking shit to Ant and they got into it a couple times and then that game just got more and more competitive and heated and kept going and kept going is in the running for my favorite game of the season.
- [62:56]
Ryan Russillo
I love that game, but I really enjoyed it. That was one of those deals where it's like, whatever I'm doing tonight, I'm watching Minnesota and Houston.
- [63:03]
Bill Simmons
I wonder is Dylan Brooks, does he do that again or is he like, all right, here's somebody I shouldn't do that to again, or does he double down on it? The next time they play and what happens in the playoff series, Are you seriously going to do that? You think he doubled down?
- [63:15]
Ryan Russillo
Do you remember him in that Lakers series where people thought his career was different, though?
- [63:20]
Bill Simmons
And this is different, though, with Ant. I actually think he might double down because he might think Ant might punch him in a series and then he would take Ant out of the series, basically.
- [63:32]
Ryan Russillo
Well, he did it to LeBron in a way, but LeBron was just not going to fall for it. But smarter, right? And then Brooks couldn't make a shot, and then he didn't do a media availability, and it was like, what?
- [63:45]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, I didn't like.
- [63:46]
Ryan Russillo
Nobody likes it.
- [63:47]
Bill Simmons
He's a better player now, though, than he was in that Lakers series.
- [63:50]
Ryan Russillo
It was an awful Lakers, like, people were going, get ready to learn China buddy type of stuff. I mean, he was a China meme, dude. And then all of a sudden, he gets a huge contract from Houston. And to Houston's credit, like, they desperately need him. And you know what I liked about that game is this Amend Thompson progression is like nightly, man. You have to watch him every night to see it. And, you know, you and I were talking about him. We did that pod for the trade value thing. I'm like, you're doing this at the worst possible time because you're going to lose your shit about Thompson.
- [64:24]
Bill Simmons
But I feel good about. I thought we were properly careful while also respecting the moment.
- [64:30]
Ryan Russillo
Where was he again?
- [64:32]
Bill Simmons
He was like 19, okay?
- [64:36]
Ryan Russillo
And I. I had said something, and I remember I was pissed when we did it. I wasn't like, mad. I wasn't like mad the next day type of mad, but I was like, you know, are you still going to run, like, pick and roll for him in a late possession? And you were like, well, they did on the game winner. And I was kind of like, I didn't want to get into it with you. I was like, there's four seconds left. They inbounded it to him. And he uses athleticism and he hits the game winner against Boston. The stuff he was doing against Minnesota, and even some stuff that I saw last night against Utah, like the drive and kick stuff that he's showing now. And there was a, you know, like, granted, we know he can't shoot yet. Which is the funniest thing about how much we all love watching him play is like, you know, the joke is he's not even good yet. And it's this much fun, right? But he hit a shot because Utah just didn't respect him. He had a shot Late last night where it was like, I'm catch and shoot three. Like, I'm not even gonna dick around with this. Like I'm getting this shot up. I'm gonna make you try to come out here a little bit more. There's more and more ball handling with him where they trust him, where these. There could be this Amend Thompson reward of these Van Vl. These Van Vliet minutes as. As like disrupted as they can be because clearly they need him to organize them on offense. Even though they have all these clutch wins, but all their clutch numbers stink, which is one of the weirdest staff profiles.
- [65:50]
Bill Simmons
Well, they have. Nobody can create a good shot. That's why with Thompson, it's like at least when he's driving to the basket and he kind of doesn't know where he's going or what's going to happen, but he always goes by whoever's guarding him.
- [66:03]
Ryan Russillo
But he kind of does know that, like they were kickouts in that Minnesota game where it was a very clear, like when he takes off, he's going, if I don't have this, I know where to kick it out. And it's also just awesome having Jabari back as, you know, the stretch option because you know it gives you some more flexibility with Shingoon. Because I'll admit there's some, as I can't say it, some Shingoon nights where I'm like, what? What's up with him? Are you there at all with that?
- [66:33]
Bill Simmons
Just feels like he's depending on the matchup. He's kind of one of those guys.
- [66:38]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah. And Adams at this point is kind of like. Do you know how old Steven Adams is?
- [66:43]
Bill Simmons
Isn't he like 28? It's like some crazy number.
- [66:47]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah, he's 31.
- [66:48]
Bill Simmons
Right.
- [66:49]
Ryan Russillo
But.
- [66:50]
Bill Simmons
But he's been in the league for 25 years.
- [66:52]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah. I don't think he should be this bad. So having Jabari is really important for them. So look, I mean, none of this was.
- [66:59]
Bill Simmons
That's one of those where they could have probably flipped Stephen Adams and one of the 90 picks. They have to get Capella or somebody who could actually play a little bit more for them. I had them on my list for subplots for the last 30 games because they're 3 and 8 in their last 11, 18th and net. They've dropped to 35 and 21 for the season and they're a 5 seed right now. But like, if I'm Golden State and I'm five losses back from them with a bunch of time left, I Feel like I can catch them because I thought Houston was overachieving with some of the stuff that was happening in them the first two months. The league, their conference is getting better. Clippers are better, the Lakers are better, the warriors are better. And I don't know if they're going to stay in the top six. That would be my pick to drop out. What do you think?
- [67:45]
Ryan Russillo
I was looking at some of that schedule stuff in the expanded schedule where if you look at games against teams 500 or more, which we've already gone through in the record stuff, But Denver's played 26 games against teams with that and Houston's played 35, so scheduling wise they've been a little unlucky. But then when you look at the remaining schedule stuff, I mean it's the top three most difficult remaining schedules. It's Phoenix, Denver and LA. Houston's like down at 18. So it should because of that number and the record I told you about, it should even out. Like I can't wait. Yeah, Tari missed the game. So, you know, I'm not putting a ton into the Utah loss. I put way more into the Minnesota.
- [68:23]
Bill Simmons
Win because that's one of the subplots that's left is who are the 10 teams going to be and more importantly, who are the play in teams going to be and then how can you avoid that eight spot where you have to play OKC in round one, which would just suck no matter who you are. You know, it does feel like Phoenix is going to drop out and we should talk to them. But talk about them. They're 27 and 29. They have three more wins than your Portland Trailblazers. Your favorite team, they're 6, 9. Their last 15, they're 19th and 8. I know you talked to Goldsberry about this on your pod on Friday, but I sat at that game with Goldsberry and the Suns were absolutely alarming and person.
- [69:03]
Ryan Russillo
Give it to us. Give it to us.
- [69:04]
Bill Simmons
There's no other word.
- [69:05]
Ryan Russillo
Body language. Bill.
- [69:06]
Bill Simmons
Oh my God. I mean we were pretty close to the bench so I could really watch it.
- [69:10]
Ryan Russillo
It's.
- [69:10]
Bill Simmons
They weren't talking to each other. You know, you judge certain things like how many guys get up after a big play on the bench. What are guys doing during timeouts? What happens when a star player walks by his coach? Does he acknowledge him? Does he talk to him? Does he just kind of stomp by? Does one of the star players yell at the coach? Well, KD yelled at Bud twice during that game. There was near the end The. One of my favorites is when one of the stars. There's somebody shooting free throws at the other end, and one of the stars moves to the furthest part of the court away from everybody, just to go sulk in the corner. That was KD near the end because he was so mad, the way they used him in that game. And the team played like crap. They were playing all the hits. And it is not a team that seemed very happy. And I don't know. I actually thought we were talking in. It was like, I don't think Bud was trying to get fired, but it was the kind of coaching where you were like, if that guy's trying to get fired, I would point back to that game where it's like, you're just leaving Grayson Allen out there for the entire crush time. Get killed by Darren Fox. It was weird. It was a team that was not on the same page in any respect and. And seemed unhappy. That was my takeaway. Leaving for two and a half hours an unhappy team. Yeah.
- [70:29]
Ryan Russillo
It's not Bud's fault that people can't come over to help on cuts. And Durant had a bunch of those swiping late, out of position. And if you don't believe me, I think Van Gundy was on the broadcast of that one, too, being like, what?
- [70:40]
Bill Simmons
It was tough.
- [70:41]
Ryan Russillo
What are you doing? And, you know, Durant puts up these numbers, but, I mean, there's some stuff here. And look, the worst thing Durant did was tweet that the NHL has loyalty and doesn't trade its players, which is still one of the dumbest tweets I've ever seen.
- [70:54]
Bill Simmons
Did he do that? When was that?
- [70:56]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah, it was during the whole stretch where it's like, why don't you watch something else? And you're like, all right, dude. Not great. When you look at their. Their whole thing here, you know, I don't know. Like, rebound is usually a number where you see, like, rebounding decline. It kind of speaks to effort and all that kind of stuff. I mean, he's under five rebounds a game in February. The crazy thing is, like, some of the other numbers are nuts because the guy can't miss a shot right now. The shooting splits are incredible. Free throw attempts are down the last couple months. So, you know, I don't. I don't know if this is. Hey, this is part of this little decline here with him, but, like, he still gets his numbers because the guy is so brilliant offensively. But, like, you know, it's kind of up to you, man. It's kind of up to you to be a part of the solution here. And they've tried some different things and they're just not very good, even when they're.
- [71:48]
Bill Simmons
Well, you know, what they unfortunately tried to do is they tried to trade him and didn't tell him. And I think that was the death knell because, you know, the way the.
- [71:57]
Ryan Russillo
I don't think he's wanted to be there, man. Going back to last summer, you.
- [72:02]
Bill Simmons
You think that this whole season you don't think you want to be there?
- [72:04]
Ryan Russillo
No, I don't think. I think there was pretty strong indications that if he could have gotten his preference to go somewhere else this summer, he would have done it.
- [72:12]
Bill Simmons
Interesting.
- [72:13]
Ryan Russillo
You don't think so? You didn't hear anything?
- [72:15]
Bill Simmons
I don't know. Well, I, I never know what to believe with Durant stuff, but I, I had always heard that he likes Phoenix, but I think it was a pretty unusual move by them to shop him around quietly with the don't tell anyone in a league where somebody's immediately going to tell somebody and that's how they found out. I just thought that was the kind of thing you do when you're trying to burn the relationship. Well, Luca never found out. Listen, I. Test wise, I've been watching Duran his whole career. He's at a slightly different point in his career. Physically, you can see it, he's as amazing as he is. And we've never seen a guy with that kind of size and shooting and athleticism. He's a little bit creakier than he used to be. You can see it when you watch it and it makes sense. Cause he's been in the league since 2007. Like, this is, this is how it goes.
- [73:08]
Ryan Russillo
I just, I don't really enjoy them. Like, I looked at it last year. Remember, we kept waiting like, hey, I don't care about any of the stats. And the fourth quarter stuff didn't make any sense. It was so bad, it had to be an anomaly. And that part of it's been fixed a little bit. But even with last year's injuries and guys missing games, they were 38 and 28 through 56. They're 27 and 29 now after an 8 and 1 start. Their bottom third in offense and defense. The last month, KD's only missed 13, Booker's only missed three. The Beal bench thing, it doesn't matter because I don't think that dude cares at all. You know, I really, I just don't. So they're just, you know, they Needed those three guys to be just top level, not to sound like a soccer analyst. And they've rarely gotten that.
- [73:57]
Bill Simmons
The Beal thing was interesting to watch in person because he was in a funk to start the game and wasn't really trying hard. And then there was a moment where you could almost see him be like, oh shit, this is on TV and there's fans. And then he started trying harder. But you know, it's an unhappy team. I will promise you that that team does not make the playoffs. There's no solution for whatever is wrong with them. And I don't, you know, it's probably the all time new owner syndrome example we're going to have, other than Prokhorov, which I think is number one.
- [74:31]
Ryan Russillo
Although Dallas in the running.
- [74:35]
Bill Simmons
Fair, Fair.
- [74:37]
Ryan Russillo
I still think Prokoff, it's unbelievable. Like I've done this assignment. If you go through every ownership transition, the new owners fuck up so bad within the first 12 to 18 months. Like even Cuban when he brought it in. And I never forget him being on with Dan Patrick talking about acquiring Ralph LaFrence. And I remember thinking like, what the hell is he doing? And then Cuban, just so good. After 10 minutes of Dan Patrick, I was like, oh, I guess getting Rafe lafrence is a good idea.
- [75:10]
Bill Simmons
Well, think about it. If we bought the Pelicans, would we just keep the roster intact for a year or would we just be going out to dinner every night trying to figure out what our first trade was going to be? I feel like they would be the latter.
- [75:24]
Ryan Russillo
I would be so determined if I owned a team to not screw up in the first 18 months, I would just be like, say no to everything.
- [75:33]
Bill Simmons
So I think Prokhorov was worse than the Luka trade, and here's why. Because the Luka trade, as ridiculous and absurd as it was, and it's going to go down as one of the worst trades in the history of the league and maybe in the history of sports. So putting that aside, at least there was a strategy in place that I genuinely think they believed. The strategy was insane. It makes no sense. It made no sense when it happened. It's indefensible. But they had a plan and a strategy. Prokoroff, his plan was, let's spend as much money as possible and do whatever it takes. I don't care about picks. Let's keep going, going, going, going. And then it didn't work for a year. And he was like, I'm out. No more money. I'm not spending anything. He just zagged the other way. But now they had no more picks left. I just don't feel like anyone's ever going to top that. Two strategies. That one was worse than the other. And in the span of two years. And he just demolished basketball in Brooklyn for no reason.
- [76:35]
Ryan Russillo
Well, the fact that he changed course so quickly after he'd already started, like, you know, it's like digging a hole for a house and going, you know what? It should be over here. Now you can't. I mean, even then, eventually you'd have a house at the end of it. So it's like digging for a street.
- [76:51]
Bill Simmons
It wasn't even one house. It was like nine houses.
- [76:54]
Ryan Russillo
Which way do you want these highways going? North? South?
- [76:57]
Bill Simmons
Wait, I didn't realize the sun came that way. I'm out. Let's not do this. Just sell the lots.
- [77:03]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah, but the problem is there's no single piece that's as damp. I mean, I guess you could get into the Tatum and the draft picks and all that kind of stuff, but they weren't like Tatum wasn't playing for that franchise. And having everybody fall in love with them over the course of seven years, the way, like, the reaction, like, I.
- [77:23]
Bill Simmons
Saw a quote the other day on.
- [77:24]
Ryan Russillo
The Luca trade where somebody had said we had underestimated the reaction to this.
- [77:28]
Bill Simmons
Multiple people said that.
- [77:31]
Ryan Russillo
What did you think was going to happen? And it just sucks even worse because AD Gets hurt immediately. But the other thing that I love too about this, and I'm going to make this joke throughout the rest of my career, is this stupid fucking timeline people do and talk about and how married they are to the age timeline of NBA rosters. Like, we need somebody on this timeline. It's like, so if Cooper Flag, if you had, like, the number one pick, would he be too young to put with Kyrie and Ad now? Like, he's not on the top.
- [78:00]
Bill Simmons
He's only 18.
- [78:01]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah, right. Like, as if every rebuilding team, everybody has to be between 18 and 22. And then any team that's like, going for a championship, it's like, this guy's 25 and good. What the fuck are you guys doing? It's way too much of a gap with the rest of our timeline and all this stuff. So.
- [78:17]
Bill Simmons
Also the iconic part of the reason you're getting rid of Luka because he's not a safe enough risk physically, and his devotion to the game. And then you trade for Davis, who gets hurt an hour into his first game.
- [78:29]
Ryan Russillo
Like you, or when I thought you nailed it when you were tweeting out about that really good feature with the owner who's. What is he? The son in law married to the family?
- [78:41]
Bill Simmons
Patrick.
- [78:41]
Ryan Russillo
Patrick. Is it Dumont?
- [78:43]
Bill Simmons
This is your dream. This is what I want to happen to you. You marry into the rich family that's thinking about getting into professional basketball. This is. This is it. This is the path.
- [78:53]
Ryan Russillo
No, I, like, I go on Instagram and constantly, like, single daughters of NFL ownership, their pictures, I'm like, oh, killing it. You know, nothing creepy, just really tasteful stuff. Be like, oh, it's such a great sweater, you know, but that party looks awesome. Yeah. Oh. Oh, my God, you guys. That's so great that you guys reach out to the community like that. Keep. Keep doing you.
- [79:19]
Bill Simmons
He.
- [79:19]
Ryan Russillo
He went through all of these players like, clearly, like, Nico had gotten to Patrick. It was like, basically to be on brand here. The messaging should be like, we here at the Dallas Mavericks want people that are fully committed and clearly, like, look, it's no secret on the Luca thing, he wasn't committed enough. I'm not going to make the argument that he was and was misunderstood. But you can't then run through all the list of players, be like, you know, Kobe and Shaq, when Shaq himself would admit that I could have done a better job. And that was the whole reason of the Kobe Shaq divorce, is that Kobe, you know, Phil's line to him being like, your 10 is unattainable for everybody else. Your 10 is their 7, and they don't understand that there's a higher number. That's your gift. That's what makes you you. So holding everybody else to that standard is completely pointless. All you're going to be doing is wasting your time. So getting on Shaq's case because he's not going to approach the off season the way you are. That's unsolvable, man. And so when he went through the list of players that he admired because of their work ethic and their conditioning and all that stuff, and as much as we all love Shaq, he'd be the first to admit that he didn't take it serious enough while he played. So it was an awful quote.
- [80:27]
Bill Simmons
He wouldn't have been in my top 700 to list for that. I remember when John Walsh sat me down and told me that my 10 was everyone else's 7. What did you say? Thanks, Josh. Thanks for just to relax on everybody on Greenland.
- [80:43]
Ryan Russillo
Did he. Did he say that to you?
- [80:44]
Bill Simmons
He didn't.
- [80:45]
Ryan Russillo
What did he say to you? What's the most meaningful thing that he ever said to you?
- [80:51]
Bill Simmons
Most meaningful thing John Walsh ever said to me, to care about the relationships with the people you have professionally, because those are things going to last after you do whatever you're doing professionally, which I think took me a long time to realize.
- [81:09]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah, I didn't realize that until recently. And he didn't say. He recommended Game Change, the book, which I did enjoy that summer.
- [81:16]
Bill Simmons
It's a good one.
- [81:17]
Ryan Russillo
It's a good book.
- [81:20]
Bill Simmons
More storylines for you. I almost don't want to get to Philly. I feel like Philly is the.
- [81:28]
Ryan Russillo
Let me ask you. Then. Let me ask you the Philly question off of what we just did.
- [81:31]
Bill Simmons
No, but I'm saying I want to almost save Philly. Philly's like the fucking huge dessert we have coming out that's got like the table where the guy's going to do like a baked Alaska. Like, that's how much excited I have to talk about Philly.
- [81:43]
Ryan Russillo
Does anyone actually make a bake? I've never even seen one. It's referenced. It's the most referenced food item that I don't even think exists. Never seen it on a menu. I've never seen the presentation. I've never seen anybody order one. I think it's fake.
- [81:57]
Bill Simmons
I think I've had it like once in my life. Philly is 20 and 36. They have the sixth worst record in the league. They've lost seven straight, and they owe a top six picks to OKC. And now they're in the zone where it's like, should we just fucking. Should we tank it? What do we do? And it's funny, I wrote down, could this hit mid-2010 Brooklyn proportions for them, where I was thinking of like the single weakest situations we've seen in the NBA. And I think the. The bleakest they can get. And I've certainly rooted for Celtics teams that had pieces of it like that when the Vin Baker trade, when it was became clear that there was no way of getting out of his contract. And you just start looking ahead and you're like, wow, this is so we're going to have this for three more years and we're just fucked. And you. That slow realization comes in and I think it's hitting some of the Sixers fans with the. With the Georgian bead money. So you have that on top of you might give the seventh pick in the draft to okc. You might not even get a draft pick out of this season. If you can't land the plane on this lottery, what would you do?
- [83:02]
Ryan Russillo
I would tank.
- [83:04]
Bill Simmons
So you're shutting everybody down.
- [83:06]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah, there's no point. Why? Why is this Embiid thing going to look better this year?
- [83:13]
Bill Simmons
It's not. It's not going to look better tomorrow. And then Paul George, he's like, yeah, my finger. I'm taking shots. It's like, well, why can't you move? Why do you seem slow half the time? Are there other injuries you have that you're not telling us about?
- [83:32]
Ryan Russillo
If I were a CEO of a company and I wanted to short my own stock, but I couldn't just say it outright, I would hire Paul George to run Prior. What are they doing over there?
- [83:47]
Bill Simmons
We do feel like we went strongly enough on us being concerned from the moment they did that contract to the start of the season. Because I feel like we, both of us danced around, including in combos, with each other recorded where I was trying to be diplomatic, but deep down in my soul, I just felt like this was a bad fit and it's been way worse than I thought.
- [84:09]
Ryan Russillo
See, the problem with it was, is that on one hand, you have Darrell pulling a rabbit out of his hat in a way that very few GMs can. You know, whether it's having a top five player in the world when he's healthy and Embiid, because that's what he was. I mean, but, you know, even if you don't like him now, and I don't like him now, you have a guy who's going to make multiple All Star teams, most likely in maxi. You hit what 21st pick and then all these other little things, and you delay the maxi extension. You figure out a way to move Harden out because you knew after that playoff series, it's like, I don't really want to extend this guy to whatever was talked about and how many different versions of that story you've heard. And then you have this cap space that almost never works out for anybody. And then you have this rare instance where the, you know, in this case, the Clippers, the incumbent team, right, decide they're okay losing the asset for nothing and not giving this player who's all NBA level a fourth year, right? Like, everybody just gives him the fourth year. Like, why are you not giving me the fourth year? So you have this one team that's deciding to not give the fourth year. And it's not like they weren't going to pay him a ton of money in the three years, but they're not going to give him the fourth year. Like, who cares? Just do the fourth year. You're figured out later. It's better than just letting him walk. And they let him walk. So now you can use this cap space on a guy who in theory is all NBA. Even if we would say that he feels like with all of his talent, like at the end of it, Paul George is probably going to be kind of a disappointing player for his career. And now he's even worse. Like when they've needed him, when other guys have been out and you've needed him to be this alpha, he's just incapable of it. And then on top. So, like it's all of this credit on top of. To your point. Like, is George, personality wise, the guy that fits into Philadelphia, knowing what the standard is and knowing what the expectations are? And it's been. Is it more disappointing than Phoenix?
- [86:05]
Bill Simmons
Well, I'm personally more disappointed because we had Phoenix in that big super boost, which I haven't lost all decade. So that was kind of like all of us were aligned on. We think Phoenix is going to be really good. I can't wait to watch this offense. And they've all been healthy, which is the weird part. So, I mean, Beals missed the most. To me, that's almost more surprising. I can't say I'm. I can't say I'm surprised that Embiid broke down and that Paul George looks a little long in the tooth. What's surprising to me is how miserable everybody seems and the fact that there's no outs, like to go 20 and 36 is really hard. Right. That's a bad record. Now you're on pace for. What's that, like 27 and 55. Like, you're just. There's a reason they're in the standings. Can I push back on one Paul George thing, though?
- [86:59]
Ryan Russillo
Yep.
- [87:01]
Bill Simmons
Because you said ultimately you're going to remember him as like kind of disappointing. I think he's exactly. It was exactly the best version of whatever career we ever would have thought it was going to be. I don't like he made conference finals a couple times. He had that one nice playoff series with the Clippers after Kawhi left. He also had a couple where he wasn't that great. I still, like, I would still take him over Vince Carter and Carmelo and people like that. From a success standpoint, you take him over Melo. I wouldn't take him as a player from like, I have Mello ranked in the top 75. But I'm just saying, like his achievements, I think he's achieved more than Carmelo did as a player. Like, he made it further in the playoffs twice or three times. He was in the conference finals three times and he was second team all NBA.
- [87:51]
Ryan Russillo
If Mello had been in the East, I think he probably, like, if you go through all the mellow playoff stuff, for the most part, every time he lost to a team, it was a team they were supposed to lose to.
- [88:00]
Bill Simmons
I've heard that argument, but it doesn't explain 09, when I felt like they pretty easily could have beaten the Lakers. And I don't feel like he had a good enough series, personally.
- [88:09]
Ryan Russillo
That's fine in that series. All right, you get me on the.
- [88:12]
Bill Simmons
One 2019 first team on Bay. I don't know. I think he said, if you're going to compare him versus Carmelo, and I was a Carmelo defender forever, but I also feel like now Carmelo's become a little overrated in retirement, which I think happens depending on if you have a podcast after you retire, but.
- [88:29]
Ryan Russillo
Or not.
- [88:31]
Bill Simmons
I don't know. We were there for the Carmelo thing. He was an incredible scorer. But the Denver years pretty much all the way through until 2009 were disappointing. Right then pushing his way to the Knicks and making them basically trade all these assets that actually could help him if he stayed. I think that he gets dinged on that.
- [88:54]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah, there's not. There's nothing. He doesn't even have a moment. You know, that used to be my Vince Carter argument was like, where's the playoff moment? Because for the longest time, and I know you'll be right down the middle on this one, like, people were actually trying to argue, like, Paul Pierce against Vince Carter before the away title. And you would just go, come on. You know, this is. There's a. There's a level to like, you've got to have some kind of playoff moment. And for Vince, for the longest time, like, he didn't have anything. I mean, it might have taken all the way until, like, he hit a corner three for Dallas. So maybe it's just because Paul George at one point was in this conversation of, like, could this guy be the best player in the league? And, you know, I guess you could do the same thing with Mellow, because early on that's kind of how you looked at Melody. And then the playoff part of it, I. I can't sit here and defend it because it's generally really disappointing. But I think for George and some of those Pacers years, you were like, is this guy? And then it took forever for him to have like a playoff series. You felt like you could trust him and that, that was like hard nes, you know, for him. It was like, what is going on? And then they had, they had lost Kawhi. They had that Utah series where Utah, I think, had that really good record in that two year window. They ended up beating them. You know, they kind of got Gobert stuck in the spot where he's trying to defend everybody. So he was really, really good. It was like, okay, well, that's like finally, like, there's something there to kind of point to there a little bit. But he just needs to be. I mean, we're back to the beginning of this whole thing. He is incredibly disappointed. Like, he's so bad right now that I, I can't believe he's doing podcasts.
- [90:20]
Bill Simmons
You tell him to take a break.
- [90:22]
Ryan Russillo
I would just be so embarrassed.
- [90:24]
Bill Simmons
Paul's going to be taking a month off.
- [90:26]
Ryan Russillo
Obviously that's not going to happen, but I would be embarrassed being a dude who comes in with the four year max and like, hey, we need you to be the guy throughout all this Embiid stuff, you know? And Maxi's numbers aren't as good because I think Maxi was pressing and trying to go like, all right, I guess I'm going to take 25 shots and I have to raise the risk of like, what some of my shots are here. Is there any part of this that you would disagree with? Because I'm. Even if he's older and all this different stuff, like, man, year one, this is what it looks like and it's just so frustrating.
- [90:58]
Bill Simmons
Well, what would scare me for a Philly fan is we've seen this with other players that all of a sudden we're at a different level and you knew it right away. Like, I always remember Jermaine O'Neal. Jermaine O'Neill had those two years where he was getting traded around and people are still acting like he was 24 and 10, Jermaine O'Neill and just wasn't anymore. Usually when the stats drop this dramatically, they don't come back. That's what we've learned. You can go on basketball reference, you can look at any of these guys. There's some sort of level, especially if it's second half of your career, when your stats go from here to here and that's just who you become. And we think it's coming back and it just never does. I'm still going to defend Paul George's 2018. I feel like that was a really good year. Start defense, even, like that Phoenix series, like he was kind of carrying them. It was like he'd kind of reached his. The 2015 OKC year was good. And then that equipment run. Wait, I don't know what it is for Carmelo. What is it? He was 2013 next season.
- [92:01]
Ryan Russillo
Okay, right.
- [92:01]
Bill Simmons
The regular season.
- [92:04]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah. But you know what, dude, I'm sorry. I actually going to re. Push back on your pushback because it's a double pushback. Yeah, right. Because if you look at the Thunder during those post Durant seasons, okay, like they're getting blasted out in the first round. They lost to Portland in five games the year he was third in MVP voting, you know, and he has one of those horrible, horrible game sevens where you don't even notice that he's out there. And like, look, we joke. We've made this joke before. You know, it's a really simple test. Like, do I forget you're out on the court? Paul George should never be somebody with his skills. With that contract with Phillies injuries this year where you forget that he's on the court in the fourth quarter and it happens all the time.
- [92:46]
Bill Simmons
It would be a fun podcast just to discuss Paul George's career for two hours. There's been a lot of ups and downs. Cause the bubble was really bad. The year after was really great. You could go all over the map with it. Couple more storylines quickly.
- [92:59]
Ryan Russillo
Let me just finish this Clipper's point though.
- [93:01]
Bill Simmons
Oh, please do.
- [93:02]
Ryan Russillo
Because you know, their defensive profile is incredible. Lawrence Frank in this front office, they deserve all the credit in the world for doing something that I just don't think a lot of teams would have done. Most teams would have given Paul George the fourth year. And to your point, like, maybe that tells you something if they were so adamant of not doing it. But then again, it's like, well, it wasn't like he was going to play for free on the other three years. But I just laugh when I think about the Clippers transactions this year because it's almost like, hey, who are all the players? Or solo doesn't like, let's bring them in. The hardened one they need. They need his usage. The highest usage that we've seen from him in five years. But it's not just that. I mean, they have brought in Kevin Porter Jr. Who they moved on from who? You know, you want to talk about playing your own game when you're out there on top of all the other shit you could get into with him. Bones, who couldn't make it work with Jokic. Like if they're, hey man, all you had to do was cut all you had to do was cut and you would have gotten second contract. It would have worked out. And a ring mo Bamba, who is going to just forever trick teams. They brought in Kai Jones. Okay. And then they were like, while we're at it, let's add Ben Simmons. This is an absolute anti rosillo heater of roster movement. And they're. And they're pretty good.
- [94:16]
Bill Simmons
I kind of like the Ben Simmons move.
- [94:19]
Ryan Russillo
Oh, do you?
- [94:20]
Bill Simmons
I didn't mind. It paid nothing for him. He costs like five bucks.
- [94:24]
Ryan Russillo
I tell you, that guy is like, all right, this Brooklyn thing's over. And then, you know, I just love that. It was actually like a story be like, ooh, we're on Ben Simmons buyout watch. And it's like, of course he gets to go to la. Of course he does. Good for him.
- [94:37]
Bill Simmons
It's a nice team for him. Hey, Ben, just play some defensive. Bring the ball up for us. Can you do that? Occasionally do the thing where you drive really hard and then kick it back out somebody. That's all we need from you. Grab some rebounds and if you want.
- [94:50]
Ryan Russillo
To make, if you want to make all your off season videos, make them.
- [94:53]
Bill Simmons
I if I'm paying Ben Simmons the minimum, I'm okay with it. If I'm paying $43 million a year for not as okay. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast and this episode is brought to you by Intuit. TurboTax didn't file a TurboTax last year. That's in the past. Now Taxes is getting the TurboTax app and filing your own taxes for free. If you didn't file with them last year. Filed by February 28th. All tax forms, all 100% free. Now this is Taxes Intuit TurboTax. New filers and filers who didn't use TurboTax last year only must start and file your own taxes in app by February 28th. Excludes TurboTax Live full terms@turbotax.com this episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. In basketball, a blockbuster trade can make or break your playoff run before the deadline. GMs across the league scourge for the right data and insights, hoping their moves pay off February 6th trade deadline this year. By the way, just like in basketball, growing your small business in 2025 all comes down to how well you can build your team. That starts with better insights from LinkedIn with unique skills and interests to the connections you have in common. LinkedIn has the strongest hiring data and insights to help you identify the right professionals so you can make the best hiring decisions. LinkedIn pairs you with the high quality candidates you need to make your business grow and flourish. LinkedIn also lets you go beyond candidates who are actively applying in a given week. 171 million LinkedIn members aren't actively seeking jobs, but they are open to new opportunities. Who isn't? That's a big pool of people you don't want to miss out on. And who knows, one of them could be your next All Star player. So hire smarter in the new year. Find your next great hire on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com Simmons once again LinkedIn.com Simmons to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. Some quick storylines quickly. Is John Moran ever going to be John Moran again?
- [96:57]
Ryan Russillo
Awesome question. Awesome question. Yeah, he's still young enough, but I've.
- [97:04]
Bill Simmons
Been worried this year you 34 games, he's missed 22. He's averaging 20 a game, 30% from three free throw attempts down to 5.9. They're 2311 with him, 14 and eight without him. And there's moments and flashes, but I was kind of expecting more from this season. We'll see. Maybe this, this is why maybe Memphis could be the late bloomer. Even though they have a good record. Could he just go on a heater the next 20 games and look like jogging? But it's not the guy from three years ago, I'll tell you that much. At least not yet.
- [97:39]
Ryan Russillo
No, it isn't. And I, I do wonder if it's kind of like the, the disruptive pattern for him. Like, hey, he's back. He's not back, but I know they'll rest him sometimes in there as well. It just, it feels like a 25. Like I'm not there yet.
- [97:55]
Bill Simmons
But watch. I'd like to.
- [97:56]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah, yeah.
- [97:57]
Bill Simmons
Be good for four weeks in a row with you.
- [98:00]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah.
- [98:00]
Bill Simmons
Put up like a 28 and 10 for a month. So I'm watching that and it's hard to take Memphis seriously not knowing what we're getting from that dude. Even though I love like Jaren Jackson, I think has been one of the big winners of the season. I thought he went up a level. It's noticeable. He's going to. He's an all NBA guy for me right now.
- [98:19]
Ryan Russillo
Ja was really good against Orlando because Orlando never changed his defense the entire time. That was good.
- [98:25]
Bill Simmons
Cleveland vs. OKC for home court, 46 and 10 vs. 45 and 10. Taping it before both of their games today. But I think that's the Storyline at some point because one of those teams could get a game seven, and those are the only two teams left. Same thing for MVP where it's SGA versus Yorkic, although it seems like SGA is kind of got it locked up. He's minus 500. It would take a lot at this point. Next one. This is specifically for you. Can the Pistons. How frisky can we get? How much friskiness should I be prepared for? Do I need to put on a frisky jacket to combat their. Their friskiness right now?
- [99:05]
Ryan Russillo
Are you. Are you suggesting a seasonal friskiness update ranking?
- [99:10]
Bill Simmons
What do you think their record is in their last 28 games?
- [99:13]
Ryan Russillo
Last 28? I'll say 18 and 10.
- [99:18]
Bill Simmons
19 and 9. Last 20 games. They're seventh and net. Cade Cunningham, your guy, you never gave up on him. You own the most amount of stock. You were just buying other people's stock when they were down. And he's averaging 25 and 9 and has. If we kept track of who is the best player in that game as an award, I feel like he would have about 25 of them. 20 of them, 19 of them, 22 somewhere in there. But he's been awesome. And they can rebound and they're tough. That's what I like. They're tough. It's a tough, like, kind of. It's a veteran team, and with some Wild Cards, beef stews out there, there's some elbows.
- [99:57]
Ryan Russillo
You see that dirt dunk the other night? What was it just. He almost got, like, horizontal to the ground, like, at rim level. I don't know what was going on because I was watching. I forget which show I watched again. Sports consultants available per diem.
- [100:14]
Bill Simmons
Yep.
- [100:15]
Ryan Russillo
I guess you should say pro rata, but there was a show the other day I was watching where they were showing, like, something from track and field. There was a track and field meet, and they were showing the high jumper and he was, like, jumping over the thing where he would, like. There was no Fosbury flop. He just jumped over it.
- [100:37]
Bill Simmons
Oh, my God. Really?
- [100:38]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah. So there was no one, apparently, on the set that would have been like, hey, you realize no one would ever do a high jump this way.
- [100:43]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [100:44]
Ryan Russillo
And they didn't do it. And if you'd had Duran out there, he'd be like, this is how you do it. Because it looked like he was trying to high jump the rim when he hit this dunk. I'm so happy. I think scholars will look back at the Zach Cram Cade Cunningham tablets as the turning point of his career because Zach did a piece that was like lit him up like hey, this is who this dude is. An incredibly high volume, inefficient dude who may not have like one go to thing that's all that great. And it feels like from that point on he became the player we all thought he could be. So I think the tablets will be a turning point on his.
- [101:16]
Bill Simmons
Interesting. Maybe he'll get invited to the hall of Fame when Cade goes. I actually was. I've been sketching out all NBA every week just for as an exercise.
- [101:27]
Ryan Russillo
Good for you getting those reps in when no one's in there.
- [101:30]
Bill Simmons
Just part of the pod process. I have Cade. I think there's a real case for him for second team all NBA right now.
- [101:39]
Ryan Russillo
Who are your four guards?
- [101:42]
Bill Simmons
Well you figure Mitchell like SJ and Mitchell are first team and Brunson's going to be second team and if you're going to go at least a little traditional and say I want to put a guard as my fourth, you know, basically the fourth guard and second team on B.A. it's between him and Edwards and I think that's really it.
- [102:04]
Ryan Russillo
What about Kyrie?
- [102:06]
Bill Simmons
Kyrie's in there and Curry's in there. If you're, if you're betting on the Curry bump. I had Kyrie and Curry and Edwards all 13. But I mean it's all like I didn't really. I spent five minutes on it but I was just, I was like I wonder where Kate is. And Cade to me with what he's done with Detroit, they lose Ivy and they somehow keep going and how hard he plays every night. I, I'd have trouble leaving him off second team right now. It's him or Edwards and you can talk me into Edwards because of the defense and but you know they have the same teams have the same record and you could say Edwards has more talent. So at least it's a good argument. So anyway Kato to have on there. So the reason I wanted to mention them though is because I think they're going to be kind of a bitch in the playoffs just for one round. I don't, I don't necessarily think they're going to beat the Knicks. I just think they're going to be really physical, super excited to be there and they have a really good guy at the end of these games who's not afraid of whoever the best guy on the other team is. And it's an unusual succeed for a conference that I think is pretty awful once you get past the first four.
- [103:16]
Ryan Russillo
It's amazing what shooting can do when you have like a guy who's going to have the ball in his hands as much as Cade because I've watched an Orlando game recently and we all love Paolo I think that established and whenever I watch him I just think of like there's just not enough spacing because Suggs is out right.
- [103:36]
Bill Simmons
This is too hard.
- [103:37]
Ryan Russillo
It's like if there was ever a team that would love a prime stretch five Porzingis to balance out all the other stuff the guys could do. And you know it's not like they had this massive overhaul this off season because all the young assets essentially are still there. Although Killian how about his possessions in passing the other night was was KLC wrong or just early summer KFC still.
- [104:02]
Bill Simmons
He never gave up a stock he's.
- [104:04]
Ryan Russillo
Still hold on Killian back in the league. Just the simplicity of a little bit more spacing. You know it's what every team maybe there's just not enough shooting to go around but every team should aspire to do that because it's just different. Your job is different now as his primary ball handler when there's just some people that you have to worry about. And look last night's Denver game is a perfect example. The Lakers did not worry about any of those other guys all night.
- [104:26]
Bill Simmons
So couple more subplots and then we'll go I mentioned the all NBA battles. What's weird is the top five seem like they're locked in unless a Mitchell Brunson development can happen. But I don't know how Mitchell's if Cleveland's going to have the best record in the east and maybe the best record in the league, he's probably going to be first team anyway. Worst rookie of the year race in a while. Castles castles minus 175 on FanDuel it doesn't even start. I went to the game Thursday. I didn't start. 10th playoff spot Russian roulette in the East Orlando 7, Miami 8 a game and a half back. Atlanta 9 at 26 and 30. And then you have three teams that legitimately don't want to even make the playing game. Chicago at 10, 22 and 34. Philly 20 and 36 now and then or 35 and then Brooklyn 20 and 35. Chicago, Philly and Brooklyn. I don't think one of be in the playoffs. Maybe Philly's just going to have to stumble into it.
- [105:26]
Ryan Russillo
You realize though this top like they're they have the sixth worst record right now. Imagine if they tank and they end up with the seventh pick. And it goes to okc, which is.
- [105:35]
Bill Simmons
Almost what happened at Dallas that year. And then Dallas ended up keeping the pick and getting lively. Remember, they are right on the edge.
- [105:40]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah. And everybody lost their minds because they didn't want to be a 10 seed when it was like actually smarter one of them.
- [105:46]
Bill Simmons
Right now.
- [105:47]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah, right here. I'm looking right at you. I was talking about you right here. Who gives a shit? Are you still bothered? You ever drive around, you're going down Sunset, you're like, I'll tell you what though, fucking Mavs a couple years ago, have you done zero?
- [105:59]
Bill Simmons
I still stand by my foundation. You know what? I look back at my playbook and the thought process was you have Luka Doncic. You always have a chance if that guy's in your team the next year they made the finals. Was I wrong?
- [106:13]
Ryan Russillo
I think the criticism was outsized for what they actually were doing.
- [106:17]
Bill Simmons
I have no idea who's going to be the 10 seed. And what'll be funny is if it ends up being Chicago, which I think would be the team I would bet on out of those three. Chicago, a team that openly tried to sabotage their own team at the trade deadline and still might make the playoffs. So you have that. Then you have Tank of Palooza. The Cooper flag stuff's heating up. Washington has a four win lead over everyone else. So they have nine wins. New Orleans, Utah, Charlotte, Toronto, Philly is our top six. And Utah's hilarious because every once in a while they look really good. Like I watched some of the, some of the Houston game and Houston was really trying to win. And Utah's like, nah, we're going to do this and watch this and then we'll do this. And they just look really competent from time to time and I don't know how they're going to fuck up, but they seem pretty happy where they are.
- [107:07]
Ryan Russillo
Or then they'll run a play where Keonte George in that Lakers game that I was at, I almost tweeted it out. Like, will you remember where you were when they came out of a timeout and Keonte George threw up a left handed floater in the lane? I think it was. I would have a left, left handed jumper. Maybe it wasn't out of a timeout. There was another play out of a timeout where I think they turned the ball over immediately. They have a lot of on ball guys with confidence. I will say that about the Utah Jazz, but who do you want to have win? If you could go right now, win. Because I Mean, if you think Scoot and Cooper flag the next 10 years over under three and a half titles.
- [107:44]
Bill Simmons
Trying to think how many did the mid-80s Lakers win?
- [107:48]
Ryan Russillo
They won five, nine finals in 12 years.
- [107:54]
Bill Simmons
Listen, if this season, if any great thing happened through 50 games, other than Dallas making the dumbest trade I've ever seen, we might be alive with scooters. We haven't talked about this on a pod. We might be alive.
- [108:08]
Ryan Russillo
We might be. There's. It's still breathing.
- [108:13]
Bill Simmons
There's enough there and he's young enough that I feel okay. This isn't like where I was mentally, you know, a month and a half ago with this, where it felt like a sunk cost. Now I'm, you know, he's gotten better.
- [108:28]
Ryan Russillo
He's getting so big.
- [108:31]
Bill Simmons
Last thing. And Dallas got killed as we were taping this school in state. But they're not getting their bigs back until the first week of March. What do you. Where do you have them in your head? Because that's another subplot for the last 30 games.
- [108:47]
Ryan Russillo
I'll probably like them better than the Clippers when they have everybody. Yeah, I might even like them better than Houston. Here's the thing. I liked him. I like the healthy them. I thought they were better this year before all this trade stuff. Like they were always a team that I had to say, don't. Don't lose sight of them with all of this Luca stuff. Like, I think Denver paid this weird Aaron Gordon price where people were looking at what they were doing or what they weren't doing. And you go, I don't really care. Like, if Aaron Gordon's going to miss this many games. He's so important to what they do. Let's see what they look like when they get him back. And clearly Luke is even beyond that and 80s even beyond that for Aaron Gordon on that part of it. So I, I think you still have to keep it open for them, even though, I mean, imagine having three centers like this that you would feel so good about and none of them are playing.
- [109:36]
Bill Simmons
Well. The good news for them, it looks like they're going to keep the 10 seed no matter what happens. Unless Phoenix gets their shit together, which I don't think will happen. And I didn't make Wemby a subplot because we already know how that's going to play out. It's such a bummer. I thought San Antonio was kind of lurking as a party crasher for maybe a nine or a 10 seed, but now that one shot and they're going to sink back. And the Wemby thing is a bummer. We don't. There's really not a lot to say about that one. So if I had to bet. So Sacramento, you would have as a 10 seed. 30 games left. Is there anything you've seen from Sacramento that got you excited since all the trades?
- [110:21]
Ryan Russillo
I don't. I don't think it's going to be. You think it's going to be San Antonio in the 10?
- [110:25]
Bill Simmons
No, I think San Antonio is out. I have Phoenix and San Antonio out, and I have Sacramento as. As the 10. I think that's how that plays out.
- [110:32]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah.
- [110:33]
Bill Simmons
And maybe Dallas passes them, becomes the 10 and Sacramento's 9, but I think that's something. It looks something like that.
- [110:40]
Ryan Russillo
I think it's Sacramento. I mean, at least with Sacramento, I kind of know what I'm getting. You know, I know you could see.
- [110:46]
Bill Simmons
Sabonis and Valentinus back for you.
- [110:49]
Ryan Russillo
I've loved it.
- [110:50]
Bill Simmons
Said, you see those guys? I know you watch a lot of Lithuanian Olympic tape. All right, any other subplots before we go that you care about?
- [110:58]
Ryan Russillo
No, I care about you sending me a deep dive thing that you've been just youtubing and out like a high school kid with no friends.
- [111:03]
Bill Simmons
You want to do that really quick?
- [111:04]
Ryan Russillo
I do, because I have one for you because you gave me the assignment. Mine will be quick, but I know you really want to do this, so go for it.
- [111:11]
Bill Simmons
No, I asked you. I said we should talk at the end of the pod or near the end of the pod every Sunday, about one rabbit hole we fell into over the course of the week. Because I think we both fall into rabbit holes. Either a book rabbit hole, or some sort of YouTube or somebody sends you a video and you're like, what's that? And then you're watching seven of them. I really want to talk about this Lorne Michaels book I was reading, but we don't have to do that today. So somebody sent me a Reddit thread about the Silver Springs performance by Fleetwood Mac in 1997 in the dance. I don't know if you're familiar with this.
- [111:53]
Ryan Russillo
I'm not. I mean, I'm, you know, look. Who doesn't love a little Fleetwood Mac in the background, but go for it.
- [111:58]
Bill Simmons
Well, so this is why. This is why the deep dive's so much fun. So Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham, they're together as a band in the early 70s, and then they end up joining Fleetwood Mac. Right? Both of them together, and they're dating, and they're in a hot relationship and they write the first album they're together. Rumors, the most famous album they made. They broke up as they're making that album. And then a couple other people in the band broke up too. Basically everybody in the band's breaking up with somebody. They're dating the band, and that's what the album becomes. So they cut out Silver Springs, which is this song she wrote about Lindsey Buckingham. And they cut it out of Rumors. It's a great song. They put it on the B side and said, and it becomes one of the biggest albums ever. But Silver Springs is the B side and she's mad about it forever because it's one of her best songs. So when they do the dance, now they've broken up, Lindsay's with somebody and they go on stage and they do this and they rehearse it and she's playing it the same. But then when they do it for the actual concert film and the album, she really gets into it and starts like kind of staring them, giving some side eye stares as she's doing it. All performative.
- [113:16]
Ryan Russillo
I think I've seen this.
- [113:18]
Bill Simmons
It's one of the best clips on YouTube is Stevie Nicks by the last like minute half of the song. And he's just playing and now she's like turning over and walking toward him. And she's now like. And her eyes are starting to bulge out and she's like, you'll never forget. I forget the lyrics. The voice of the woman that haunts you. And she's just like yelling it out. And he's just like, all right, cool. And he's just playing the guitar.
- [113:46]
Ryan Russillo
Well, that must have made him want to get back together.
- [113:49]
Bill Simmons
Well, and then at the end, she's like, the lyrics in the song are, you'll never get away from the voice of the woman that loves you. And she's like, you'll never get away. You'll never get away. And she's like, and it's a thing. And it's become an. Ever since YouTube popped up, it's become a thing. And then there's all these theories about the performance, how much of it was performative, how much it was a stage. This Reddit thread that I got sent was about how they're preparing to do this comeback thing and they might have gotten involved a little bit again because they have these different interviews where they're talking about what a good place they're in, and they have interviews together where they seem a little lovey dovey and maybe some sparks will Fly. Maybe not. But then by the time they do the dance, it's clear to her that he's with somebody else, like, for whatever. Because here's the piece. He has a kid the next summer. So this is what the threat. That's evidence.
- [114:50]
Ryan Russillo
That's usually good evidence. Yeah.
- [114:52]
Bill Simmons
With somebody else. By the time they do this performance, he probably knew they were having the kid. And this was when it maybe died for Lindsay. So the theory for Stevie. So the theory was when she's singing this, it's like within a few weeks of after she found out, maybe they don't have a chance to get back together together. And she's pouring it on in the thing. But It's a legendary YouTube clip. Anyway. I spent an hour and a half reading everything I could read about this on the Internet yesterday at 2:30 in the morning, Boston time.
- [115:22]
Ryan Russillo
I think that's time well spent.
- [115:24]
Bill Simmons
Thank you.
- [115:24]
Ryan Russillo
That's good. Because I'll get into a band, whether it's new or something I want to revisit. And I'll be like, all right, I'm going to read about Dwayne Hallman for an hour. You know, So I actually do kind of like this stuff.
- [115:39]
Bill Simmons
It's the 70s music stuff. Everybody's got a story that is at least worth an hour of your time that goes in a bunch of different directions. The other thing I found out was there's a 1977 performance of Silver Springs because people thought they never really played it that much. That's on YouTube in black and white of, like, an original performance of her, like, right after they broke up singing it. So I watched that too, anyway, because.
- [116:03]
Ryan Russillo
I'll go through some, like, Talking Heads phases. I love them and I. I like them so much that, you know, again, it's. I'm not going to get to experience it the way people get to experience when it first happened. But I always think, like, I'm having Les Claypool of Primus on at some point here soon, who's generally considered one of the best bass players of all time. And, you know, in the beginning with Primus, you were just like, what the is this? And I'm. I'm so fascinated to think of, like, what it was like when Les Claypool is like, well, I want to make the bass the feature thing. And I'm going to sing these songs and they're going to be a little different. And my voice is probably not the most traditional rock star kind of voice. But then once you kind of buy into the whole thing, you just appreciate how Great the music is and how great he is. But I can't imagine how many people told him in the beginning, like, are you kidding? This isn't going to work. And when I think about the Talking Heads, like, I just imagine, was New York so cool? Because I read that Please Kill Me punk book about just punk. And I read that city. Yeah. And I. I'm glad I read it. And I'm also, like, it was so disgusting that I couldn't. You know what I mean? Like, I'm gonna get.
- [117:03]
Bill Simmons
It's, like, too grizzly.
- [117:04]
Ryan Russillo
It was so gross in so many spots, and I certainly don't feel like a prude, but after a while, you're like, all right, I got it. It was a weird time.
- [117:13]
Bill Simmons
Wait, can I read you Silver Springs lyrics really quick? And then you go to your deep dive.
- [117:18]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah, but you have just a couple samplings now. I'm not singing.
- [117:23]
Bill Simmons
Time cast a spell on you but you won't forget me I know I could have loved you but you would not let me.
- [117:30]
Ryan Russillo
I know that.
- [117:31]
Bill Simmons
And then later I'll follow you down to the sound of my voice will haunt you Give me just the chance you'll never get away from the sound of the woman that loves you this is when she kicks it up in the performance. And then the end is. Was I such a fool? I'll follow you down to the sound of my voice will haunt you Give me just a chance. You'll never get away from the sound of a woman that loves you and then it just keeps going and going, going. Yeah. Anyway, it all played out on stage, and it's amazing. And it's one of the best YouTube clips.
- [118:05]
Ryan Russillo
You man whore. I think, too, in there.
- [118:08]
Bill Simmons
No, I don't remember that part.
- [118:10]
Ryan Russillo
Okay. Yeah, so I referenced her, I think, at the very top. I'm reading all three volumes of Susan Wise Bowers. The first one's the history of the Ancient world, and I just love it. She's a complete pragmatist about things. And I'm going through some of the early Egyptian dynasties. And so I just finished the chapters on the pyramids, and I. I don't understand why people love conspiracy so much. I know as conspiracy. Bill, this may be offensive to you, but usually there's a very simple. The Occam's Razor. You know, what's the simplest explanation be like. That's probably what it is. So there was another author, a Swiss author named Erich Von Dineken Daniken, who wrote this book about how aliens essentially built the pyramids. And he wrote this book in the 60s and it did really well. And then, you know, you always kind of wondered like, what the hell's going on over there in Egypt? And if I had a kid and I couldn't answer that, I'd, you know, again, it's probably why I'm not a parent.
- [119:20]
Bill Simmons
You don't have a kid?
- [119:21]
Ryan Russillo
No, but I feel like ill equipped. If I had had a kid and was like, what's up with the pyramids? I go, you know, shit, he's got me. I haven't done a ton of research and I want to just go based on this Swiss authors thing from the 1960s. But Susan's explanation of it, like after you read, literally two pages, Bill, about the history of how the pyramids get started. One small, it's six levels up. So the next guy's like, well, mine's going to be seven. And then the next guy's like, well, I'm going to do like eight. But then that one doesn't get finished. Then another one doesn't get finished. Then there's another one called the Bent pyramid where they're just kind of like moving them further away from everywhere. The previous one is built, by the way, and that's called the Bent Pyramid because they realize halfway through construction that their angles are off and it's going to be too steep and then it's not going to hold up. So they have to like flatten it out a little bit. So there's physical visual evidence to this day of what would be kind of man's attempt at building these great works. Works. And she just goes like, look, this one was small. Then they tried to build this one, it didn't really work. This one was unfinished. And then this one's like really screwed up. And yeah, they've done a good job with the corners and it's a massive undertaking. But they just basically asked their citizens, based on the pharaoh's power of like, no, this is what we're doing, dude. Like, we're building it and we're moving these stones around and it can take forever, but we're going to give you some water and maybe like a sarong or something. And then they master, like any civilization, they become better at building these things. And all it took was like a couple pages for me to go, okay, well that's the answer. Like, that's it.
- [121:05]
Bill Simmons
So now you're set.
- [121:06]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah, so I'm going to have a kid is my point. Because now I can answer that question.
- [121:11]
Bill Simmons
What you just laid out reminded me of what happened in Vegas when they were building the casinos and the themes got stupider and stupider, and they were like, we're going to have a casino. It's New York, New York. It's going to be like going to New York in a casino. And then somebody else would be like, whoa, I'm going to make a casino called Aladdin. And we just go. And it's like, you. It's like being in a fantasy. And then somebody else was like, I'm going to create Paris, and it's just gonna be like going to Paris, except I'm doing Venetian, and it's gonna be like going to Italy. Some of these casinos stayed, and then other ones just, you know, failed miserably.
- [121:53]
Ryan Russillo
That's a really good. It's exactly. Well, it's not exactly, because I don't think anybody's ever accused, despite some of the weird Vegas stuff, of ever being built by aliens, but, like, not being educated on it and going, yeah, what is going on? Is it. Is it actually perfect representation of all this mathematical stuff? Is it a reflection of the stars? All of these theories that I've heard over and over again, and then I never thought of the simplest approach to it is that here's the first one, here's the second one, third, fourth, and by the time I think it's the sixth or seventh one, it's like, okay, now we've really got this thing locked in because we've been trying to build these things for years and years. And you go, oh, wow. All right. Yeah, that actually makes a ton of sense.
- [122:37]
Bill Simmons
I wonder if that's going to happen with NBA trades, where the Ked trade was basically your version of them completely fucking up that last pyramid before they got better at it. Or maybe the Luca trade will be the last one, and then we'll just get better at trades from that point on. Maybe not.
- [122:54]
Ryan Russillo
That'll never happen. No, they'll still mess up some pyramids.
- [122:59]
Bill Simmons
They'll probably still mess up some trades.
- [123:01]
Ryan Russillo
It's 20, 25, and Luca just got traded. That should have been a nice thing before we go.
- [123:08]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, it was really funny sitting next to my dad because he's like an old married couple with the Celtics team because he's been watching these guys so long. And so, like, the start of the second quarter, Jalen Tatum's out, and it's going to be like Jalen's five minutes, where it's like that part of the concert where it's like, keith Richards has a new song for you, and he's Going to come out and play like his song. And my dad's just like, watch this. Jaylen's just gonna, he's just gonna try to get some shots off. Like this is just watch what's gonna. And it was like, he knows the team. He's been going to the games too long. He knows like every part of it. And it was just really funny because our record is like 39 and 15 and we won the title last year. And it just proved to me, my 77 year old dad, you're just never gonna be happy with sports. Jalen, who's awesome.
- [123:57]
Ryan Russillo
I think because they get older. And I'm going through this a little bit with my dad where like he'll complain about something sports related and I just go, what? What are you talking about, man? Like, what do you not. Do not watch. Does your father not watch enough? Enough like other games? Will he watch other NBA games that are non selfish later?
- [124:17]
Bill Simmons
Well, he'll, he'll watch the TNT ABC sometime, but he watches every Celts game, which is kind of adorable because that's how he finds out sometimes about other teams. Like guys like you went see Wemby right before the break and it was his first Wemby game and it was just his scouting report really made me laugh because it was like, he's so long.
- [124:40]
Ryan Russillo
He's not wrong.
- [124:40]
Bill Simmons
I think you have him and then he blocks it. I was like, yeah, yeah. That's what it's like.
- [124:46]
Ryan Russillo
I think it's a common thing with guys past a certain age is they're just so much older. They're selfish. They're incredibly selfish about what they want from their sports teams.
- [124:57]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [124:57]
Ryan Russillo
And I don't know if it's a counting down the years. I'm not trying to be like morbid about this, but it's possible. It like my father can be so incredibly difficult. Like I went to a sporting event for him and now meanwhile, the guy hasn't had to pay for a ticket because I've helped him. Yeah. You know, which I'm happy to do as a payback for all the years that he took me to all the games growing up. But like, if the Celtics get up big, he'll want the other team to make a run for his soul to.
- [125:24]
Bill Simmons
Make it more fun.
- [125:25]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah. And I'll just be like, hey, you can't, you can't fucking be doing that. All right? Like, you can't, you can't be rooting on the other team for this five minute window. And he's like, I only get to a couple of these a year, it's like, well, you know what? You didn't pay for anything. The seat is awesome. And you need to not root for the Cavs for six minutes just so you get not only a win, but a close one.
- [125:51]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, well, I like with the older fans how cut and dry it becomes. Like, my dad just wanted the Red Sox to sign Bregman. He's like, we need a right hand hitter. He's going to be good in Fenway. He looked up no stats.
- [126:05]
Ryan Russillo
None.
- [126:06]
Bill Simmons
He had no. There was no bipartisan. There was no average annual salary. Homeroad splits.
- [126:12]
Ryan Russillo
These guys don't care.
- [126:14]
Bill Simmons
No, it's like we need a right hand hitter. And he's been really good in Fenway. He can't, you know, he can't lay down any of the stats of Bregman actually in Fenway, but that's just where he stands and that's the way it is.
- [126:25]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah, see that's. That's always like the funny thing with, you know, we're terrible because we live it. But your dad, and I don't even mean your dad or my dad, but everybody listening to this right now. Like your dad's advanced scouting is if the guy had two doubles in like a three game series once.
- [126:45]
Bill Simmons
But the Doc Rivers as a GM strategy of when I played Byron Mullins that time when he hit those threes, we gotta get him.
- [126:54]
Ryan Russillo
Was there any part of you that immediately looked up Bregman's deal and then compared it to the average annual salary of Mookie Betts?
- [127:01]
Bill Simmons
No, I didn't do that. But I will say I didn't think it was. I looked at his stats and noticed that he hadn't had a really awesome year until since 2019, which made me nervous. But then MLB released their top hundred players and he was like 57. I was like, yeah, baby. Bregman kind of sucked me back a little bit. The Red Sox had four of the top hundred.
- [127:22]
Ryan Russillo
Well, I'm all over baseball America again. I renewed my subscription. Advent of years, the prospects. Yeah, Big Farm. I mean, that was my lunch reading for years and years.
- [127:33]
Bill Simmons
Christian Campbell, the Marcelo Mayer, Derek Barton, Roman Anthony.
- [127:37]
Ryan Russillo
Yeah, the Bregman thing pisses me off. Just because I can't think of any transaction without Mookie. I'm surprised. I would say 38 year old bill probably have 7, 7500 words on the Mookie Luca thing.
- [127:53]
Bill Simmons
No, you know What? I have 20 words for you right now. The Luca trade made me feel better about Mookie it actually, it was a trade that was so much worse than the Mookie trade, which was reprehensible and awful because at least we won the title with Mookie. Like, they never even won the title with Luka. And then they traded them for, you know, they probably got more in the trade, but. But I really identified with the Mavs fans because what they were feeling after the trade was like, Red Sox fans on steroids. And hgh. How we felt with Mookie, where. But at least with the Mookie thing, we had time to prepare. And it seemed. It seemed like it was headed that way for a year. It's like, oh, man, they're gonna fight. This is not gonna end well. Luca, they had no idea.
- [128:40]
Ryan Russillo
No. There was a lot of preparation on the Mookie thing. And I know it's not fair to do average annual salary, because the Bregman thing can be a one year deal. But, you know, one of the things. Things about, like, these commitments for these. These position players have historically been so bad in baseball with him, you figure he was going to age, right? And you just go, like, look what his deal will be in seven years. Average annual salary compared to, like, what you're signing for now, and then what it'll be as salaries keep going up. Although, you know, that's another topic that we could probably spend a lot of time on because I thought that ESPN Baseball News was crazy. Like, it was like, wow, you guys are actually opting out of live rights. You're going to do it.
- [129:20]
Bill Simmons
And then Manfred just, daggers. We didn't want to be on a declining platform or whatever. He said that. I couldn't believe that. But, you know, he's. He's setting the table because he needs to negotiate with other people, and he's trying to make it seem like ESPN was a bad partner and that's why our ratings were down, because they didn't push the game. I get why he did it. It's just really unusual. But I think baseball is a local sport, and I think we've known that for 10 years. And you and I have personally talked about it 10 times. I don't think people want to sit, oh, it's Sunday night. I'm going to watch the Cincinnati Reds play the Milwaukee Brewers. Like, nobody's doing that. And if they're not anymore 60 years old.
- [130:01]
Ryan Russillo
Do you remember when you used to do it? Because I did it religiously. It didn't matter who was playing. It was Sunday night baseball, and I couldn't wait.
- [130:08]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. Days are over. All right, we got to go. Rossello, good to see you. We'll see you next Sunday. And next Sunday, when Celtic City starts the last segment of the pod, we're going to do some sort of topic based off of whatever the first episode was.
- [130:22]
Ryan Russillo
So that'd be good to get some Celtics content in the pod fired up.
- [130:26]
Bill Simmons
That's what the people wanted. They kept asking, good to see you, Rossillo.
- [130:29]
Ryan Russillo
Good to see you.
- [130:30]
Bill Simmons
All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Priscilla, thanks to Kyle on Sariti and Gahao as well. Don't forget you can watch this as a video podcast. You can also check out clips on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. We have a new rewatch was coming on Monday night that is a video podcast as well on Spotify. And you can check out the Ringer Movies YouTube channel for entire videos of that as well. I'm gonna see you on Tuesday. Enjoy the next couple days and I'll see you.
- [131:04]
Ryan Russillo
I don't have a few years with him.
- [131:21]
Bill Simmons
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