Charles Barkley on Skinny Luka, the Eagles, LeBron, Jokic, Josh Allen, and His Uneasy ESPN Partnership

Summary

The Bill Simmons Podcast

Episode: Charles Barkley on Skinny Luka, the Eagles, LeBron, Jokic, Josh Allen, and His Uneasy ESPN Partnership

Date: September 2, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this lively episode, Bill Simmons is joined by Charles Barkley for their annual football and basketball deep-dive ahead of the new NFL and NBA seasons. The conversation is wide-ranging, covering Barkley’s NFL picks, historical and contemporary NBA topics, inside stories from his career, the changing landscape at ESPN/TNT, and candid takes on current athletes and media culture. The tone is classic Simmons/Barkley: irreverent, honest, loaded with anecdotes, and laced with nostalgia and sharply observed sports wisdom.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. NFL Preview & Barkley's Annual Picks

• Barkley doubles down on the Eagles as his Super Bowl pick, citing offensive continuity, the addition of Saquon Barkley ("I'm going to claim him because he's a Barkley"), and a youthful, improving defense led by Vic Fangio. ([05:04])
  • Quote: “If they don't go out and get Saquon, they don't win... Everything has to go well.” (Charles Barkley, [07:10])
• Addresses the "hunger" issue for repeat champions, referencing Dan Marino & Allen Iverson as cautionary tales about how rare consecutive titles are. ([05:44])

2. The Difficulty and Rarity of Winning Titles

• Both Simmons and Barkley stress how winning championships is a "perfect storm" (talent, health, timing) and often underappreciated.
  • Quote: “Somehow we've underrated how hard it is to win a championship and all the different things that can go wrong.” (Simmons, [07:10])

3. NBA Team Building, Salary Cap, and the "Second Apron" Rules

• Barkley criticizes modern players for “teaming up” and blames star combinations for stricter salary cap rules.
  • “If y’all stop all wanting to play together, we wouldn’t have to make up bogus ass rules...” (Barkley, [10:09])
• Simmons pushes back, suggesting the system now punishes smart team construction.

4. Barkley's Sixers Departure, 'What Ifs', and Parallels to Luka Doncic

• Barkley details the infamous Sixers trades (Moses Malone, Brad Daugherty), his own bitterness, and parallels with Luka’s Dallas exit.
  • Memorable Story: Barkley gets news of being traded after writing a heartfelt letter to Philly and shares the comical timing of receiving golf clubs from Phoenix.
• “I said, hey guys, I don't want to come out publicly because Philadelphia's been great to me... but y’all suck as an organization. I will never play for y'all again. Ever.” ([18:47])

5. NBA Western Conference Landscape: Nuggets, Rockets, OKC, Lakers, and Luka

• Barkley is bullish on the Rockets (with Durant), high on OKC, and skeptical about the Lakers’ aging core, especially regarding LeBron’s ability to pass the torch.
  • Deandre Ayton's prospects are discussed in classic Barkley fashion: “He going to be so dangerous this year because he going to be a free agent.” ([24:20])

6. The ‘Killer Instinct’ in Great Players

• Deep dive into what makes all-time greats: contrasts Jordan/Kobe’s ruthlessness with LeBron’s more affable style.
  • “Michael and Kobe aren’t nice guys... LeBron’s a nice guy. That’s not a knock... but they really wanted to kill you and humiliate you.” ([32:10])
  • Barkley relays iconic Jordan stories from Olympic trials and Dream Team days—Jordan guarding with ferocity after 36 holes of golf, “screaming at this little kid from Puerto Rico...” ([36:16] - [39:42])
  • Quote: “He looks like a serial killer.” (Simmons on MJ’s legendary stare, [34:08])

7. LeBron, Legacy, and Passing the Baton

• Explores LeBron's struggle with the Luka addition, unwillingness to transition gracefully.
  • “The baton has to be passed from everybody... The Lakers haven’t been relevant since the bubble.” (Barkley, [44:50])
• Barkley laments modern players’ reluctance to play together (Kyrie, Kobe/Shaq), contrasting with his own desire for help in Philly/Phoenix.

8. Sports Media Critique: Negativity, Hot Takes, and Comparison Culture

• Barkley and Simmons both rail against the media’s obsession with legacy debates (MJ vs. LeBron), hot takes, and cable’s incentives for pointless arguments.
  • “These fools spend all their time comparing. Michael Jordan's dead. Let LeBron be LeBron.” (Barkley, [56:01])
• Insight into radio/TV tactics: "Our job is just to get people to call in and argue for four hours." ([58:51])

9. The Uneasy ESPN Partnership & Death of 'Inside the NBA'

• Barkley reveals deep frustrations over TNT’s handling of the NBA rights, learning about layoffs and moves via media leaks.
  • “We should not learn that we got fired from the Internet. Ernie Johnson deserves better.” ([76:41])
• Barkley’s chief concern: Whether ESPN will allow the “time to breathe” that made Inside the NBA special, or squeeze halftime/postgame into tight TV formats ([66:36], [75:41])
• Details about his choice to stay (200+ staffers kept jobs), offers from NBC (with hilarious clauses), and the anxiety for team members left hanging ([80:04]).

10. Jokic, Team Building, and NBA Franchise Mentalities

• Both lament Denver’s post-title decisions—not keeping key players despite having a generational star.
  • “You’re going to haggle over 10-20-30 million? Every NBA team is worth at least $2 billion...” ([92:10])
• Singling out teams like the 80s/90s Celtics and Lakers for always reloading, compared to today’s cost-cutting owners.

11. NFL Wrap-Up & Super Bowl Picks

• Barkley predicts Eagles over Bills or Ravens, rooting for Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson to get the monkey off their back.
  • “A great player like Lamar and Josh, are you on the shit list like me until you win the championship. And it sucks...” ([88:50])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On modern NBA stars colluding:
  “If y’all stop all wanting to play together, we wouldn’t have to make up bogus ass rules to stop y’all from playing together.” (Barkley, [10:09])

• On being blindsided by trades:
  “We should not learn that we got fired...from the Internet. Ernie Johnson deserves better.” (Barkley, [76:41])

• On Jordan’s killer edge:
  “He looks like a serial killer. That’s 100%... Michael has this look in his eyes, Bill.” (Barkley & Simmons, [34:08])

• On media's role:
  “Our job is just to get people and call in and argue for four hours. We don’t believe half the shit we say.” (Barkley's media friends, [58:51])

• On the NBA’s convoluted media future:
  “How are regular fans gonna, like, okay, it’s Tuesday, especially when they start putting games up... Well, like Casino, sometimes the game’s gonna be on Peacock and like, it’s not gonna be on NBC. I think that’s a huge dilemma for the NBA.” (Barkley, [69:58])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Description | Timestamp | |---|---|---| | Eagles as Super Bowl pick | Barkley’s football predictions; Saquon/Barkley jokes | 05:04–07:10 | | The difficulty of winning titles | NBA/NFL parity & perfect storm analogy | 07:10–08:34 | | Barkley’s Sixers exit & NBA trade stories | Bitter Sixers trades, parallels to Luka’s situation | 13:04–18:47 | | Team-building rules: Second Apron debate | Old vs. new school, stars teaming up | 09:00–12:18 | | Western Conference breakdown | Nuggets, Rockets, OKC, Lakers, skinny Luka | 22:19–25:30 | | Jordan/Kobe/LeBron: Killer instinct | What separates the all-time greats | 32:10–34:13 | | MJ Dream Team anecdotes | Puerto Rico, Kukoc, Olympic stories | 36:16–39:42 | | LeBron’s struggle with passing the baton | Resistance to new era and team-sharing | 44:24–46:39 | | Media & sports talk radio hot takes | Why legacy debates dominate the airwaves | 56:01–58:51 | | TNT/ESPN transition woes | Learning about moves by press, show format fears | 66:36–76:41 | | Denver’s Jokic window & team-building | Franchises that always “go for it” | 91:41–93:52 | | Super Bowl picks wrap-up | Barkley’s hopes for Eagles, Bills, Ravens | 88:50–89:49 |

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Thematic Highlights & Takeaways

• Candid Critique: Barkley's honesty about team management, athlete mindset, and corporate media politics stands out; he’s unafraid to air grievances against both the old (TNT) and the new (ESPN).
• Media Skepticism: Both Simmons and Barkley share an almost meta-awareness of how sports debate culture is engineered and the toll it takes on discourse and careers.
• Legacy & Gratitude: Despite his critiques, Barkley expresses gratitude for the relationships and opportunities basketball and TV have provided—especially as change looms.
• Nostalgia for Teamwork: Barkley repeatedly underscores how much he would have valued better teammates, contrasting his era’s challenges with today’s player movement.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode brims with equal parts inside tales, old-school wisdom, and current-day critique. Whether you’re interested in NBA history, media machinations, or sports culture, Barkley and Simmons deliver humor, honesty, and invaluable perspective on what’s changing—and what isn’t—in pro sports. The discussion is particularly rich for fans who want to understand the personality dynamics of star athletes and the behind-the-scenes realities shaping the biggest sports TV shows of the modern era.

Transcript

[A]

This episode is brought to you by Yahoo. Fantasy this season is around the corner. Fantasy Football taking over. Everyone's researching, drafting, putting together their championship squads and if you haven't joined a league yet, now's the time. It's all happening on Yahoo. Fantasy. This year I'm playing on Yahoo. Fantasy and you should too. We're doing a big ringer draft at the end of August. There's going to be bragging rights and all kinds of bells and whistles with it. Can't wait to use the Yahoo Fantasy platform. The season starts September 4, so now is the time to start playing Yahoo Fantasy Football, which offers so many fun ways to compete. Want more ways? Try the new Yahoo Fantasy Guillotine League mode where the lowest scoring team gets eliminated weekly. Want to play instantly with Friends? Try the new Draft with Friends mode. Prefer the classics play in a private head to head league or join a public league play [e-mail] Simmons the Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook where they have a fun promotion for NFL Kickoff and for each of the Week one primetime games. Here's how it works. You can place an anytime TD bet on any Week 1 NFL Primetime using your profit boost any game and if the player you pick scores either the first or the last touchdown of the game, you earn a share of $2 million in bonus bets. So for instance, Philly Dallas, if you think Jalen Hurts is going to score the first touchdown, that's plus 470. I would vote for that. I would vote for George Pickens with a garbage time touchdown to be the last TD scorer. That's 12 to 1. Do both of them. Knock yourself out. Try to get a share of that 2 million. Go ahead and place an anytime TD bet on FanDuel for the game and you get to cheer for the first and last TD to win a share of 1 million in bonus bets. So there's that. I put up a 400th Rewatchables on Monday night. It was me and Van Lathan and Chris Ryan. We did American Gangster. Denzel I think moved into maybe second place for most rewatchable appearances, 12 or 13 for him. This was a really fun episode. You can find on The Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well. We're doing a bunch of football stuff this week. Ringer Fantasy football show is in high gear. You have the Ringer Gambling show which got going the Ringer Tailgate, our college football which did really really well. Ringer NFL with shield. So we're humming Heading toward Thursday night. It's going to be me and House on Thursday and maybe some other stuff. I might do a fourth podcast this week. I would keep an eye on that. There's so much content. I thought the guest we're about to have, Charles Barkley, was just going to be the first part of the show, but man, once we got going, it was almost, almost an hour and a half. We covered a lot. We covered a lot of basketball, his football. He comes on every year to do football stuff, make his picks. He picked the Eagles correctly last year, but we ended up kind of diving into what happened at TNT and what's going to happen with him at ESPN and inside the NBA. So always great to have him. He's honestly one of my favorite favorite people. And I was talking to Jimmy Kimmel once about this. I think he might be the best guest. If he's not in the best. If he's not the best guest, he's a 1 seed in whatever the tournament is. Just can go on any talk show, can come on any podcast. He's just the best. So anyway, he's the podcast today. The one and only Charles Barkley. It's next. We're going to take a break. We're doing a Pearl Jam and then Sir Charles. It's the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. And the NFL is back and. And thank God FanDuel has everything. They got an awesome app. They have SGPs, they have great futures, they have good prop bets, live betting your way bets clean app. It's great to use. Been using it for a few years. Every time I go back to Boston or any place that has Fando and I get to use it. I'm always excited. I'm on an airplane Runway. You done the airplane Runway?

[B]

Yeah. Have you, buddy?

[A]

Airplane Runway. There should be a button.

[B]

The Runway button.

[A]

I'm on the airplane Runway. I gotta get this in. Get your bets in, build something bold, make every game feel bigger. Download the FanDuel app or head to FanDuel.com BS to get started. The ringer committed to responsible gaming. Please visit rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen to the end of this episode for additional details. You must be 21 plus in President select states or 18 plus in President DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Game problem. Call 1-800- Gamble or visit rg-help.com call 1-887-89777 or visit ccpg.org chatinconnecticut paid end all right, Grandpa Charles Barkley is here. He's visiting the grandkids. He's getting ready for football season. He comes on every year to make picks. And I think you picked the Eagles last year, and even if you didn't, I'm going to say that you did.

[B]

I did pick the Eagles, and I'm going to pick them again this year. Brother, come back.

[A]

Give me. Give me the back to back. Give me the explanation.

[B]

Well, they got the same offense. I'm not related to this guy, but his name is Saquon Barkley. I'm going to claim him because he's a Barkley. He is phenomenal. We still got the great wide receiver tandem, got a great tight end. Jalen's phenomenal now. Defense is pretty young. You know, we're going through that transition. A lot of the older guys have moved on, but I think big Fangio, by the end of season, he had my guys rolling. Man, I can't wait.

[A]

What about the hunger issue after you've won the title? It seemed like it hurt the Chiefs last year. The Chiefs were even complaining during super bowl week about, oh, man, it's starting to feel like old hat for us. Do you believe with football when you haven't won yet, getting back?

[B]

No. Well, they won three now. There's a little bit difference.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, when you won three, when we get to three, we might get a little bored, but we only have one. But no, first of all, I don't believe that. Because if you get. Cause it takes so much to get to the NBA Finals and to get to the super bowl, you don't take that for granted. I mean, you know, the great Dan Marino said one time, he says, you know, I got there my first year and then 10, 12, 13 years later, I never got back again. I remember having the same conversation with Allen Iverson. He's like, man, I thought I was going to be in the finals like three or four times. I got there one time. I got there one time, you know, I said, so this notion that you're gonna get back there, man, when you get a chance to win the super bowl, because, Bill, let me tell you something, you have to be honest with yourself as a player. And it's hard to do. There's very few times you actually have a chance to win the championship. I played in the NBA for 16 years. I think I had a chance to win the title four times. That's it. That's it. You know, Shaquille, who's one of the greatest ever, he played in the league for over 20 years, he won four championships. So this notion that you're gonna win all the time. Nah, man. When you got a chance to win, you better win also.

[A]

It's a percentages thing. If you're in a 30 team league, only one team could win the championship every year. Somehow we've underrated how hard it is to win a championship and all the different things that can go wrong. We just saw last year with the Celtics. You know, you win the title and then your best guy gets hurt.

[B]

Yeah, but it takes a perfect storm to win the champion. If you got to have a couple great players, obviously, but all your guys got to be in their prime. Your role player. Like the Denver Nuggets, when they got the best player in the world, then they got rid of all their guys on the bench. Yeah, Thinking like, you know, we got Joker, we got Aaron, we got Michael Porter Jr. We got Jamal. They got no bench. They got rid of KCP and Bruce Brown. Like everything has to go well. I mean, think about this though. If the Eagles don't go out against Saquon Barkley, they don't win the championship, right? They do not. So, man, everything has to go well. Listen, I love the Eagles no matter what, but if they don't go out and get Saquon, they don't win. I mean, hey, how about this? Your Celtics, if they don't go out and get Porzingis, they don't win. Also, I don't want to leave out Drew Holiday, but if they don't go out and get Pozingas two years ago, they don't win the championship.

[A]

Yeah, I said a couple podcasts ago that the Eagles reminded me of the 2000s Patriots with how they're putting the team together. Like getting Jalen Carter with the ninth pick, right? You go back and do that draft again, he should have gone in the top three. He falls to nine for a variety of reasons. Trading for A.J. brown, trading a pick for him. Like they've just consistently out thought teams, which I think you kind of have to do in the NBA now with all these new dumb rules they have. No, they want second apron things.

[B]

Cut the bullshit. They ain't got no dumb rules. Let me tell you something. I'm so glad you asked that question.

[A]

Is this a second apron defense?

[B]

No. No. Yes. Why did they have to come up with bullshit rules, Bill? Because all these guys want to play together and not compete. How many great players do you need on one team? See, this is what bothers me. My generation, they made up these rules. Like these young People. Well, if I had a dollar for every time I heard the second apron, why did Adam Silver have to put the second apron in? Because lebron got all his guys together. KD want to go play with the Warriors. Wait, y' all don't, like. Don't want to win the championship and just compete against each other? Don't get mad at Adam Silver because y' all all want to play together and dominate the league because y' all don't want to compete. I hate when I hear, man, the second apron's not fair. What do you mean it's not fair? If y' all stop all wanting to play together, we wouldn't have to make up bogus ass rules to stop y' all from playing together.

[A]

This is interesting. Cause I completely disagree with you.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I think they came up with it because the Players Association, I don't think, realized that putting these rules in is going to make all these teams blow up, and you're basically going to be able to afford two or three guys max, and then you're going to have to cut corners everywhere else. Like the Celtics, they had no chance of keeping Drew Holiday and poor Zingis on this team with this nucleus.

[B]

But. But airbound, that team was getting paid, right?

[A]

But I'm saying that. But now it. But they did. They did a really smart thing with the way they stacked their roster like okc. Now they've made all these really smart moves to put the roster they have together, and they're not going to be able to keep it together, even though they were smart. I don't like penalizing people for smart.

[B]

They paying their top three players, Bill. Like, listen, as much As I love LeBron, when he started doing this thing with Bosh and Wade, that was the first wave, okay? The second wave was KD going to the Warriors. Adam Silver had to do something. We can't let one team hoard all the good players. I mean, they had Clay, Steph and Draymond. They didn't need kd.

[A]

Well, that's true, but that. That was a unique situation to me. It's like in the unique situation. Well, because the cap spiked. That was the year, like, Joe came.

[B]

Noah, they went there to dominate the league. The reason LeBron went to Miami, so he can get him and Dwight and Bosh together. If all these guys didn't want to play together, Bill, Adam Silver wouldn't have to come up with this sacred. This second apron thing. That's the only reason, like, my. My sons, they were paying KD, Bill and Booker each $60 million. How many good players do you need? You think I want to play? You don't think in my heyday I want to play with KD and Bradley Beal? Like, they're like, we can't pay everybody. They had to come up. This is a bogus rule. I agree with you. But if all these guys don't want to play together, Adam Silver wouldn't have to make up rules.

[A]

I was thinking it would be like in the mid-80s if Philly had you and Andrew Toney and Mo Cheeks and Moses Malone and Dr. J.

[B]

No, it'd be more like if Michael Jordan went to the Celtics to play with either. If Michael Jordan, who was the best player in the league three or four years before he won the championship, if he had a. Went to Boston or went to la, that's what it would be like.

[A]

Yeah, but you stepped on my joke that I was going to make.

[B]

What's that?

[A]

I was going to say it would be like if Philly, because they couldn't afford anyone, had to trade Moses Malone for Jeff Ruin and Cliff Robinson. And then you were gonna say, oh, no, that's actually what they did. And it was really stupid. I was just.

[B]

That was gonna be the joke I made right now. Let me tell you something right now. You know, I got a lot of love and respect for you. It's too soon for that Bullshit.

[A]

It's for 39 years.

[B]

Let me tell you something. I have been. I have been. I'm not. I'm being serious for one second now. I have been bitter and angry because that caused me at least one championship, probably two, because I was just becoming a star. Yeah, we had the number one pick in the draft. And me and the guys went out to celebrate that night. This is night before the draft. And we got drunk as hell. I'm like, God, I'm like. My third year in the league. I think that was the first time I had became an All Star. I'm excited for the future.

[A]

Andrew Toney's healthy at this point.

[B]

No, he's out the league. But like, we still got a good team. I got Hersey Hawkins, Johnny Dawkins. And the only thing we were missing was a big guy. I got Brad Dougherty coming in for the next 10, 15 years. I like my chances against anybody. Anybody.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we go out and celebrate. I get home around 2:30 in the morning. My phone rings around 5:00 clock in the morning. It's a great reporter in Philly, a guy named Phil Jasner. He said, charles, I need to talk to you as a Phil. We've been out celebrating. I'm getting Brad Daugherty tomorrow. He's like, well, we better hold off on that. The Sixers made a trade. And I said, phil, there's no way the Sixers are that stupid. You trade the number one pick in the draft. He says, and it get worse. I said, well, it can't get any worse than that. I said, phil, let me do it. So I said this true story, Bill. I said, phil, let me take a shower. So I want to make sure I got my head together. So I get in the shower, take a long hot shower. I call Phil back. It's about 5:30 in the morning. Explain to me what's going on. He says, well, you guys have just traded the number one pick in the draft to Cleveland. I says, you trade the number one pick in the draft. Number one. You trade the number one pick. That's stupid. Then you trade him to the competition. We had. I think, if I remember correctly. I can't remember. I think we had just played. We had just beaten the Cavs in the playoffs. I think we lost to the Bulls that year, if I remember correctly. But we had just played the Cavs and beat them in a five game series. So not only you trade the number one pick, you trade him to the competition. Then they trade him for Roy Henson, who's a good friend of mine, who was a decent player but clearly wasn't going to be Brad Dougherty. I thought Brad Daugherty was going to be an all. Well, he was an All Star for the next 10 years, which he was basically. Then Phil says, oh, it gets worse. I said, what's worse than that? He says, you guys traded Moses Malone to the Washington Wizards, to the Bullets at the time for Jeff Rulin. I said, jeff Rulin hadn't played basketball in two years.

[A]

Created a bad back. I said, and didn't they try to trade Dr. J to Utah too? That was the other thing that was floating around.

[B]

I think that might have been the year before. It was some time, but it was just for this one draft. And I says, so you're telling me, see. Cause I thought Moses, who was my mentor, who helped me lose 50 pounds to become an All Star. I thought he'd been great for me and Brad Dougherty for the next two or three years, then he could walk away, retire.

[A]

Plus, the league was big back then. Cause you had Samson, olajuwon, you had McHale and Parrish.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, I had to beat Bird McHale in Paris.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was like, jeff Ruler hadn't played in two years, and I think me and Jeff Ruler played two games together, Bill. So not only we trade the number one pick in the draft for Roy Henson, we traded Moses to D.C. for Jeff Rulin and Cliff Robinson. And from that point on, we went in a spiral, obviously downhill, because the Celtics were on their last legs.

[A]

It was between the Pistons and Bulls come in between.

[B]

Yeah, but, you know, if they gave me Brad Daugherty, I would have felt pretty good about myself because the Bullets didn't have anybody who can handle Brad Daugherty. Download. They had Bill Cartwright.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I was like, no, I'm good. I'm good. And, man, from that point on, I was so angry. Then I had to spend another four years just sucking in Philly. And it was brutal. It was brutal. But I blame the Sixers for making arguably one of the worst trades in NBA history.

[A]

Well, so then you. You leave in 92. And I was going to ask you about this later, but let's do it now. Are you. So you're watching the Luka Doncic. He's now skinny. Luka, he's got the eye of the tiger. He wants to prove Dallas wrong. You were in this exact same spot when you were headed to Phoenix. You were on the Dream Team that year. You're in the best shape of your life. You're motivated. You want to stick it to Philly. Do you see parallels when you're watching and reading the stuff about him right now?

[B]

I think Luka is a great player. I think he's a lot younger than I was, to be honest with you. And listen, as long as. As long as I got some help, because it was interesting, I had zero idea where I was going to go. I remember, like, the last couple years had me on the COVID of the Sport News. They had been like. It was like eight different teams trying to get me. And I didn't care. I just wanted to get the hell out of there. And what's really interesting about the story, Bill, so that summer, I get arrested in Milwaukee for fighting, and I beat just America. I beat that rap. I've been arrested a few times for fighting, but I've never been found guilty. Let's get that out the way.

[A]

Let me write that down.

[B]

Yeah. So we're in Milwaukee. I'm on trial for that week. I spent the whole week writing a letter to the 76ers. There was no way I was going to get convicted because I didn't do anything. So me and my attorney we spent the whole week because I didn't want to piss people in Philadelphia off because Philly was great to me. We spent the whole week writing a letter to the 76ers. I said, basically, I said, hey, guys, I don't want to come out publicly because Philadelphia's been great to me. I love the fans, they've always been great to me. But y' all suck as an organization. I will never play for y' all again. Ever. Ever. So I get acquitted. Friday morning, catch a flight back to Philly. I bought a whole plane drinks, Bill. I said, y' all drink up. Nobody knows what's going on. I just bought. I was. I just got acquitted. So I bought the whole plane drink. I said, I don't give a damn.

[A]

I didn't know you could do that.

[B]

Yeah, man, but that's when you had to pay for drinks back in the day. Remember? Like, dude, we flew commercial my first four years in the league. At that time, we would remember. Well, first class got free drinks. Do you have to pay for them? And coach. See, Bill, you've been famous and rich for so long, you forget about the old days.

[A]

I just had never heard about anyone buying a plate of drinks.

[B]

Well, you had to pay for drinks and coach back then.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, that was good. That's a good thing.

[B]

What's really ironic, which is really crazy, I get home that Friday night. I'd ordered a set of. Cause every time you went to Phoenix, you got fitted at paying for a set of golf clubs. So I had forgotten. Cause I think we went out. Well, we always went out west for Christmas. Cause the circus was in town in Philly. We always did a two week trip during Christmas. Cause the circus in town, they had.

[A]

That in Boston too. The team just disappeared. Yeah, for two and a half weeks.

[B]

Yeah. So I get back home on a Friday night, and me and the boys, there's a set of ping golf clubs on my front porch. I live in a gated community. Put a big box. I get. I told. I ordered these golf course, these clubs back in December. I totally forgot I ordered the golf club. We go out and celebrate. Have a great weekend. Sunday night, I get a call from my agent this Sunday night. We're gonna release the letter. Monday morning, I get a call from my agent Sunday night. You've been treated to the Phoenix Suns. You got like a 8 o' clock flight to Phoenix the next day. So it was really crazy. I got the golf clubs from Phoenix at my house that Friday. And we're gonna release the Letter Monday morning I get traded. That Sunday night I'm on an 8 o' clock fight to Phoenix. That morning, I think it was like in August sometime if I.

[A]

So you weren't angry about it? You were relieved?

[B]

I was relieved that it was over because I had to hear the rumors for three years.

[A]

Yeah. And you knew it was coming. Whereas Luca had no idea it was coming and seemed like he got blindsided for a month.

[B]

You know, that's one of the weirdest things. I don't even know how you keep that a secret.

[A]

Well, you keep it a secret when it's the two GMs basically who know each other.

[B]

And that's 100%.

[A]

Yeah, the two GMs.

[B]

But you know, it's going to be interesting because I think the Rockets. The NBA is going to be interesting next year because I think the Rockets and the Nuggets probably had the best summer. Yeah, obviously getting KD is going to make. Going to really improve the Rockets. But they finally got Lucas some help. I love what the Nuggets did this summer.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

But you know, obviously if you got Luke and LeBron, you're going to be competitive. But I don't think it's earth shattering like the Lakers are going to win the West. Like I say, OKC ain't going anywhere. I think if you had to rank them in order, I'd go okc, Rockets.

[A]

Denver, and then Rockets over Denver.

[B]

Well, because I. Man, I'm telling you, they are so deep. They didn't give up anything to really get kd.

[A]

Yeah, I would have Denver too, and the Rockets three. I would have Minnesota over the Lakers though. I just think that the LeBron, the age that he's at and the defensive.

[B]

Stuff with them, Luka's in shape. That adds another element. Like I say, we're not gonna say this ain't like March Madness. Well, when people be arguing over who's 69 and 70, Bill, I always love every year that March Madness. Somebody's pissed off. I'm like, yo, man, nobody goes around saying I'm number 69 and 70. If you're not one of the top 68 teams, shut the hell up. Don't be saying we not we should have got in.

[A]

You played with a couple deandre Ayton types in your career. I'm a little dubious of that one too. It's the guy who's been who? The super talented guy who's been disappointing everywhere he's been. But maybe this time it'll be different. Especially when it's a center. Those guys usually don't work out.

[B]

No. You know what's going to be different? He going to be a free agent. Those are, those are the most dangerous guys.

[A]

You know, one year guys who should be paid year by year.

[B]

Well, like there used to be a thing back in my day, one of the reasons NBA start cutting salaries and short term deals. There were guys, and I can name some guys who played like crap for two or three years and then all of a sudden became Bill Russell there last year.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then as soon as they signed that big deal went back to being regular dude. So I think what to piggyback on your point, I think that's one of the things that's gonna make the Lakers interesting because Aiden got a ball out this year because if he does not play well, he not going to get no big deal. And let me tell you something, if he don't ball out playing with LeBron and Luka, he ain't never going to ball out. Right? You talk about the perfect scenario. But he's going to be so dangerous this year because he going to be a free agent.

[A]

The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by FanDuel football fans, we're done waiting. Football's coming. It's coming Thursday. It's coming Friday. It's coming Sunday. It's coming Monday. FanDuel giving all customers a no sweat NFL bet for week one. Moneyline player props same game parlays. Your no sweatback can be used on any NFL wager type. You just wanted to go Denver Moneyline and do an alt over. Knock yourself out. If it doesn't win, you'll get your bonus bets back. I am going to be sharing all my favorite bets on Thursday when we start the Ringer 107 contest. But you can guess if you've listened to this podcast. There's some teams I'm leaning toward that I like for the season. Seattle, Denver, maybe. Maybe Jacksonville is a one week trying to convince us they're good. Stay tuned for Thursday. For my picks visit fanduel.com BS to kick off the NFL season with a no sweat bet every game day during week one. Play your game with FanDuel. An official sports betting part in the NFL must be 21 + president in select states or 18 + president in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Opt in required refund issued as non withdrawable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. Max refund unless otherwise specified. $5 restrictions apply including token expiration. See [e-mail], gamma problem, call 1-800- Gamble or visit rg-help.com, call 188 79-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut. This episode is presented by State Farm. Having insurance. Not the same as having State Farm. It's like expecting the leadership of a team captain on the football field, but getting a seat captain. Sure, they're both captains, but who's going to run your offense? You wouldn't settle for anything less than the best for your team, so don't settle for just any insurance. When it comes to getting the help you need, State Farm is the real deal. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Well, the okc, though, finding out after the playoffs that Jalen Williams had a fucked up wrist the whole time and they we didn't even know about it. The fact that he wasn't healthy and still played well, the fact that they seem like young, you know, that I know you were at some of the games too. Like, they, they felt young and nervous in certain spots. And I think Indiana, there was a couple moments, especially Game 4, when they really could have potentially tilted that series and they just kind of weren't good enough to do it. I wonder if OKC is going to be better this year.

[B]

I never thought OKC was going to lose. The only time I thought they were going to lose, when old boy switched up the starting lineup and I was like, what the hell is he doing?

[A]

And he got rid of the. Yeah.

[B]

I was like, what are you doing? The only other person I saw do something that stupid was Avery Johnson. If you go back.

[A]

Oh, in 07.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We would go up. We went back. We were sitting there in the studio that night when we was like, what just happened right here? And we were sitting in the studio like, Avery Johnson changed up his starting lineup to go against Don Nelson's small ball. And like, why would you do that?

[A]

You got the win 67 games, you.

[B]

The number one seed, and you change up. And when Boyd did that this year, I was like, what the hell? Then ended up losing, up losing game one, and then they blew him out in game two. But it didn't matter because they got the split. Then they won game three and he finally went back to his enormous the lineup. Like, yo, man, you don't change up things when you got the best team. You've been the best team in the NBA all season. And I thought that was the only time I felt like. I was like, yo, man, don't do that again. You almost cost your Team the championship. But I said midway past All Star Game, I started making predictions. I said, nobody can beat this Oklahoma City team four times in a row. They're too good, man. They're one of the deepest teams we've ever had in the NBA. They remind me a lot of the old Pistons back in the Isaiah Thomas days. Like, everybody talked about Isaiah and Joe Dumars, who were great, but Hardenstein is laimbeer. And then coming off the bench, they had Sally James Edwards, Benny Johnson, Mark Aguirre. I mean, they had like 10 players, like, and you can just plug them in. And it was amazing to watch them play. And they're going to be tough. The only thing you got to worry about with them is they gonna get everybody's best slap next year. And it's gonna be a shock to their system. They've been like the cool little kids for the last couple years. They finally reached their potential. But now when you hunt it, man, it's a different animal. It's a different animal.

[A]

Sometimes the teams will go up a level, defending. Like, I remember the 92 bulls were like that after they got the first one. They were, like, ripping through the next year.

[B]

They had Michael Jordan. I don't listen. You know, all this stuff. You know, I love talking about players. And people always ask me the difference between Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant and LeBron. Cause those are three best players I've seen in my generation. The two most important players ever are Maddox, Johnson and Larry Bird, because they made the NBA what it is today. But the three best players I've ever seen were Michael, Kobe, and LeBron. And I'll tell you the difference in the three. Kobe and LeBron. Excuse me. Michael and Kobe are dangerous. They'll kill your ass. LeBron's a nice guy. And I said, and that's not a knock. He's still great, great, great. But he's a nice guy. Michael and Kobe aren't nice guys. Like, they're different. And the one thing about okc, even though I think Shai is a great, great player, he, to me, is more like LeBron. He's a really nice guy. He not out there trying to kill you. And I think that's the difference. And Jalen, they got a bunch of really, really good players, and that's fine. But I always tell people the difference between Michael and Kobe, man, they're dangerous. I mean, they really wanted to kill you and humiliate you. And that's not like. I think Tom Brady's like that.

[A]

Yeah, you know he is.

[B]

Yeah. Like, and I think there's very few players out of all the great players I've ever met in my life. I think Michael and Kobe, Tom Brady, Roger Clemens. Like, I think they want. Who?

[A]

Roger Clemens.

[B]

Yeah, Roger.

[A]

Where'd that come from?

[B]

He'll throw at your head in a minute.

[A]

Right? You're talking about mean spirited, great athletes.

[B]

Yes. Like, they gonna do whatever it takes to win. They ain't worried about who like them and they ain't worried about your feelings. And there's nothing wrong with that. And like, everybody's not built like that. I'm not even built like that. Like, I think I'm a pseudo tough guy. Like, I want to win, but, like, I. Like I'm just not like those guys.

[A]

Yeah. You're still the guy buying drinks for everybody on the plane.

[B]

100%.

[A]

MJ would have been playing cards.

[B]

No. Yeah. And MJ wouldn't have paid for other people's drinks, just probably his. And whoever he was playing cards with.

[A]

What you just laid out, I think about a lot. Because the guy, that all time guy that everybody says was like, that was Bill Russell. Like, he just wanted to destroy people.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Everything he did was about trying to get in somebody's head, intimidate people. Like with Wilt. He made friends with Wilt to try to get closer to him, to make Wilt go less hard at them when they played. All he wanted to do was win and take care of business. End of games. The MJ stat that I love, I think it was like eight straight years. He never lost three straight games ever. He just wouldn't accept it. That, like, there's nobody who's been wired like that. That's why he can sustain.

[B]

The closest I've seen is Kobe. I saw a picture today, as a matter of fact. I was scrolling and they got a picture of Magic Johnson. He was talking about Magic. He's talking about Michael's the best he's ever seen as far as talent, work ethic and mental toughness. Michael has this look in his eyes, Bill. And I says, that's Michael Jordan right there. Like they had. Nobody else notices this because Magic is dribbling the ball. Michael's guarding him. But they got Magic's quote and the look in Michael's eyes. I was saying to myself, that's the guy. That's the guy right there.

[A]

I remember the picture. He's kind of looking up and he looks like a serial killer.

[B]

Like a serial killer. Like a serial killer. That's 100%. Let me tell you this Quick Olympic story. So John Thompson, who's one of the greatest men I've ever met in my life. So I get cut from the Olympic trials, and my coach, Sonny Smith, says, hey, I got a call from John Thompson. He wants to talk to you. And he says, come to my office at this certain time. Listen. He puts him on the speakerphone. He says, sonny, I just want you to know Bobby was an asshole. Charles deserved to make the Olympic team. He was the second best player there. Bobby didn't like Charles. He never told us why. Charles got down to the final 20, but he was never. He was the second best player. He should have made the team, but Bobby just didn't like him. He was going to be. He was the second best player there. And I said, coach, I really appreciate the call, and I want to thank you for the kind words. And he said. He said, you know, I said, why did he not like me? He said, he never told us why, but he just didn't like you. And I said, fine. So he hangs up. And Sonny says to me, wow, I'm a little surprised. I says, what do you mean? He says, I thought you were the best player in the country. I said, well, I'm fucking not. I said, coach, I saw the greatest player I've ever seen in my life. We became friends. It was the most amazing thing I've ever seen in my life. He's a little taller than me. He's about six six. He's jet black. He can outrun everybody. He can out jump everybody. And he is out here trying to go. And I said. He said, what's his name? I said, his name is Michael Jordan. He says, and I think Michael's either freshman or sophomore. He wasn't the. As a coach. And I'm used to playing against Melvin Turpin, Sam Bowie, Kenny Skywalker, Dominique Wilkins, and those Flyers at Georgia. I played against Hakeem in college, so I'm not playing against sl. I played against Foxlam Pajama.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

As a freshman or a sophomore. I can't remember which one it was. So I'm used to playing against, like, real deal dudes. I mean, Florida had a guy named Ronnie Williams and Vernon Delancey. They were awesome. And I'm like. I said, dude, this dude is something scary. I've never seen Coach. Like, I said, he a little taller than me. He can outrun everybody. I said, and he got an attitude. He's out here. And, man, that was the first time I played against Michael. And it was scary, Bill. Like, I say, he was going, I seen Roy Williams talk about, like, I had to tell Michael to stop going so hard every day, even in practice. I mean, he's wired. I'll give you another story. So we're playing in the Tournament of the Americas in Portland, Oregon. We playing Puerto Rico. So me, David Robinson, Chuck Daly and David Robinson Go play 18 holes that morning. So we're done. We said. Chuck said, let's go get some rest. We got a game tonight. Mike said, I'm gonna play 18 more. Chuck says, we got a game tonight. He says, I'm gonna play 18 more. So we leave. He goes, play team. We went back and got some rest. We get to the game, and Michael, we all getting dressed, and David, he's like, david, you got this dude. Charles, you got this dude. Irvin, you got this dude. Michael looks up, says, I got him. And Chuck says, he's the point guard. Michael says, I got him. Chuck says, okay, Bill. We start the game. Michael screaming at this little kid from Puerto Rico, don't you ever fucking say anything about me in the newspaper. He's guarding this dude like it's game seven. This after 36 holes, Bill. He's screaming at this little kid, and we're looking around like, yo, man, there's something wrong with this dude. He's screaming at this kid from Puerto Rico. Don't you ever say anything about me. I read what you said in the newspaper. He's doing that little drill, that little drill where you turn people, which most people, they're fast enough, you can't turn them. He's guarding this dude like it's game seven and he's screaming at this kid. That was the first time I realized he didn't have a full deck. So then we're in the Olympics and we're playing Croatia. Yeah, they got Toni Kukos, who's averaging like 40 points a game, him and Scott. And Michael says, chuck, we're going to take turns guarding Scott. Tony Kuko, we're not going to let him score. Guys averaging 40 points a game. You know, one thing about those international teams, they run the same play for the same guy. Yeah, it was one of. It's the best defensive performance I've ever seen. These dudes are talking in timeouts. They're screaming at us. Let us get over the pick. Just head for a second. We're going under on this one. Like, they're guarding this dude. They're like, we're not going to let him score. I think he finished like some seven for 30, something like that. It was some of the best. That's why I said Michael is wired different. It was beautiful and amazing. Those are the two most interesting things that I've ever seen him do, man. He's just wired differently.

[A]

Yeah. That's why the Pippen stuff was sad after the last dance that that relationship went sideways. Because as great as Jordan was, I always felt like those guys together were its own kind of awesome thing. And I don't know, I always felt like Jordan appreciated. And then Pippen feels like he seems like he's underappreciated with that whole aspect.

[B]

And it's really sad. You know, first of all, I have never won a championship, but if you won six championship, that's pretty damn special.

[A]

Yeah, you should be bonded by that.

[B]

But jealousy is a dangerous thing, man. Jealousy is a dangerous thing, and it's really unfortunate. Michael Jordan made us all a lot of money, right? He made us all a lot of money. NBA wise shoe, apparel, wise clothing deals, commercials. See, Bill, that's the thing a lot of people don't understand. Athletes were not making commercials until Michael Jordan. Nobody had a shoe deal. You saw with that movie Air. Nobody was getting a percentage of shoes until Michael Jordan. He's made.

[A]

They ruined that Converse.

[B]

Yeah, he's made. They weren't making no percentage of shoes back then. They were getting a little money, him and Magic, but they weren't making any money. Yeah, Michael's mom said, hey, we gonna get a percentage of shoes? Michael said, no, we don't do that. He says, oh, well, we gonna do it now. I started getting paid because of Magic. Michael Jordan. But like I say, nobody was making money for shoes. Nobody was shooting. Now, seeing jocks in commercials like saying hello. So shout out to Michael Jordan for making us all a lot of money, brother.

[A]

You know, speaking of commercials, LeBron did that forever King commercial. Did you see it? That Nike thing you did?

[B]

I probably saw it, but didn't pay it that much attention.

[A]

Yeah, it was like this, I don't know, 45 second commercial about all the people he's vanquished. And it's like just close up shots of him with a crown on. I think he's. I don't really understand what his MO is. And if you talk about it, it's like, well, you're being critical. And it's like, this guy's one of the best players of all time.

[B]

And it seems like that's the only thing I hate about LeBron. First of all, he's a great, great player. He's an amazing person, really nice guy. But for him and his guys, if you don't say he's the greatest ever, it's like you committing treason, Right?

[A]

You're either for them or against them. It's like, can I just say, you're one of the greatest players of all time?

[B]

No, you cannot. You cannot. If you do not say he's the greatest of all time, you're committing treason, man. You can't even mention Michael, Kobe, Bill Russell, Kareem. I mean, there's a faction of Kareem people. I actually feel like Kareem's the one guy who get left out.

[A]

100% agree.

[B]

Yeah. I mean. Cause nobody has a better career, high school, college, and pros than Kareem Abdul.

[A]

Jabbar, but seemed to have four years at UCLA that he didn't. He could have been in the NBA, just putting up stats, and he would have been one of the best guys.

[B]

And, you know, so. But that's the only thing I don't like about LeBron and his guys. They're like, if you don't say he's the greatest thing since sliced bread, they hate you. And it's really sad. And it pisses me off when it happens, too. Be like, yo, man, it's just people's opinion. Cause first of all, most of these young punks today in the public, they never saw Michael Jordan play, right? They never. Most of them never saw Kobe play. It definitely didn't see Kareem or Bill Russell play. But for some reason, this generation. Oh, you're being blasphemous saying LeBron. And listen, I got number. Love and respect for LeBron because I said this before. He's probably had the best career ever for high school. Him and Kareem. No, I'm talking as far as high school players, because if you remember some Bill, Kobe struggled in the beginning, right? Kevin Garnett struggled in the beginning. All those high school players struggle a lot. Remember, they booed Kobe early in his career. But I can say this. LeBron James is the only player in my 40 years in the NBA who came right out of high school and played well. I had his first game. I had his first game. LeBron James, in my 40 years, like, Kobe became great. Kevin Garnett became great. McGrady, all these guys. But I can honestly say LeBron James is the only one who came out of high school who played well right away.

[A]

I think he's in a weird spot with this Luca situation, because from the.

[B]

Moment, it's time to move on, brother.

[A]

Well, But I don't think he feels like it's starting to move on. Like when they did the press conference.

[B]

Kareem. Bill, see, this is the problem.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Kareem did it with Magic, Tim Duncan did it with Tony Parker, Ginobili, and.

[A]

Kawhi Le doesn't want to do it, though.

[B]

You have to.

[A]

Bill, listen, I agree with you. I'm just telling you what I'm watching. Like when they put this statement out and they said, like, we got to be more committed to winning a title. It's like, you've Luke on your team.

[B]

They're not trying. Yeah, they went out and got Luka Dunchik. They're not trying. Hey, man, I don't like when guys. The baton has to be passed from everybody. It's passed from everybody. The Lakers haven't been relevant. The bubble was the last time they've been relevant.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I hear people talking about LeBron's putting up good stats, but the Lakers have not been relevant since the bubble. Now are they relevant? Bringing in Luka helps, but I'm not going to pick them. They lost to the Timberwolves last year. Who were. They're not relevant with okc, the Nuggets or the Rockets. In my opinion, I'm not going to pick the T Woods or the Lakers over those top three teams.

[A]

Well, you saw it from the course of your career. Like, the league is about young guys and then guys in their prime and then older guys trying to hang on. Yeah, but once you hit that, once you're in that last group, it's so much tougher to go 100 games.

[B]

Yeah, but it's easier. It should make it easier. Kareem, like, okay, I bet Kareem won.

[A]

Yeah, you can't count Kareem, though. I mean, Kareem had the most unstoppable shot in the league.

[B]

I know that. But what you say Magic were responsible for the last. Him and James Worthy Potter were responsible for the last two championships. And for Tim Duncan, who's the greatest power forward ever. Yeah, I think Duncan, Parker, Ginobili. Not Duncan. Duncan. Excuse me. Parker, Ginobili and Kawhi Leonard are probably responsible for the last two championship. There's nothing wrong. He still get the championship ring. If the Lakers win the championship and luka wins the MVP, don't LeBron get a championship ring? Come on, man, stop it.

[A]

Bill, I'm on your side. I agree with you. I don't know what he sees. Like, because the move would be. I've got the. I lucked out. I Have one of the best four guys in the league on my team again, how do I fit in at the age I'm at to add him? I know so. But I don't know if he wants it, because it seems like if he could have forced a trade over the summer, he probably would have. I would look at it as like, this is an amazing situation. You can pick your spots. You can probably play 55 games during the season. Luca will do all the work and then turn it on in the playoffs for. For 10 weeks, and you win, you win. If you make the finals, you win. If the team succeeds, it's like Ernie Johnson. Ernie wins. When your show's good, it's not. Ernie's not like, I got to get my takes off today. Ernie's like, I have these three guys. I have to make them better. I win if the show's good. That's how LeBron has to think.

[B]

You know what's interesting about you saying that? I hate these guys so much who whine about that. Bill, as a guy who was dying for better players around me, when you see these things where guys can't play together, you're saying to yourself, like, kyrie didn't want to play with LeBron. I'm like, why not, right? Kobe didn't want to play with Koban Shaq. I'm like, what do you mean y' all don't want to play together?

[A]

That got personal, though. That went to another level.

[B]

That's my point. These guys drive me crazy. Like, I'm dying to play with other great players and, like, who want to come to Philly and play with me, who want to come to Phoenix and play with me. Like, when I hear these guys, like, I want to be the guy, like, I want to be the guy, too. On a winning team, I don't have to be. I don't have to be the guy. Especially when I'm not the same player. When I hear this stupidity. Like, Kobe and Shaq probably should have won three more championships if Shaq had have said, hey, you know what, Kobe, you're responsible for the last championship. Probably. I probably can win a couple more if I just shut the hell up and play.

[A]

This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Cracking open a cold one on a hot summer day is one of the best feelings, but it's even better when it feels like you earned it, like, in a friendly little competition. It's always better when there's something worth playing for. And Michelob Ultra Superior Light Beer is a pretty great prize. I would. I mean, I would be all tennis for Michelobatros, because that's what I do all summer. Because tennis is an actual sport, unlike pickleball. So tennis, doubles, singles, whatever. Let's play for an Ultra. Fill your fridge with Michelob Ultra this [e-mail] enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2025 Anheuser Busch Michelob Ultra Light Beer, St. Louis, Missouri this episode is brought to you by the Wells Fargo Active Cash Credit Card. This is an ad for the Active Cash credit card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in. Earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases with it, big or small. So whether it's buying tickets to the game with your mom or grabbing a coffee with your dog, earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases made with it. Say it with me, the Active Cash credit card from Wells Fargo. Learn more@wells fargo.com ActiveCash terms apply. And now it's time for a special part of today's episode brought to you by YouTube. One of my favorite places. Mark your calendars, NFL fans. Kansas City. The Los Angeles Chargers. They're facing off in San Paulo on Friday, September 5th for the first time ever. YouTube streaming it free for absolutely everyone. It's 100% free. Carol G. Will be the halftime performer. Can't miss the game. Obviously, It's Mahomes. It's AFC West. That's a classic. Coverage starts at 7pm ET on September 5th for the 8pm ET kickoff. Is there a better way to spend your Friday night? I can't think of one. I like the Chiefs. As you've heard from my podcast. I'm just feeling like an off year for the Chargers and the Chiefs. Laying the smackdown. Trying to remind everybody that they're here. The neutral field thing, I'm just. We'll talk about it on Thursday's podcast. But I am in on the Chiefs in this game. And you could be in. You could be one of the 100% of the people watching this game live for free on YouTube on September 5th. Carol G. Performing at halftime. Watch it live only on YouTube. Certain local broadcasts available. Head to YouTube.com NFL on Friday, September 5th at 7pm ET 8pm ET kickoff. Chiefs. Chargers. You might have heard of both of those teams. Game available via YouTube globally except in Canada and certain other countries. Game will also be available on free over the air broadcast television local markets of the participating clubs. And this is why I defend Duncan so much and Duncan now as the years pass and people can Just look up his stats. And I'm like, oh, this guy's better than this guy. Like Duncan could have averaged, I don't know, five, six more points a game. He could have had better everything if he wanted to. But he was all about, like, we're winning 70% of our games. I'll come in and out when they need me, and when they really need me, guess what? I'm the best power forward of all time and I'll be there. But he was very generous with, you know, all he cared about was how the team was doing and he was inclusive and how to raise guys levels. I don't know why we don't treasure that as a basketball fan community. You guys, I'm not a you guys in this. I'm on your side on this.

[B]

No, you guys in the media, not you particularly. Jackass is on television. It's like, whose team is it? And things like that. And that's like, I'm sitting back watching. I'm like, yo, man, like let's say Hypothetically, is it Dr. J's championship or Moses championship? It doesn't matter.

[A]

It doesn't matter.

[B]

It doesn't matter. That's why that goes back to my original point, man. I'm. I would have loved to won a championship with another guy beside me. That's what drives me crazy about these fools on television. They go on TV every day. Like I was, you know, out this weekend. This weekend I was saying to myself, oh shit, I would hate to be Arch Manning and Bill Belichick this week because I know how the losers on television are gonna react. I know how stupid the public is. They don't even understand. But I was saying to myself, man, I'd hate to be Arch Manning Mundy. And I'd hate to be Bill Belichick Tuesday, because I know how these fools on television are. I knew they were gonna crush Arch Manning and I knew they were gonna crush Bill Belichick. And I sent Bill a text Monday. I says, hey man, because you know, me and Bill are close. I said, I just want you to know, I know it's a lot of people hoping you fail. But I always want you to know you're my guy and I'm rooting for you. Have a great season. But as I knew this morning, they were going to crush him. That's the way this business is now. It's unfortunate. And like I say, I knew Arson Mannings played one football game of significance. He's an 18, 19 year old kid. He goes against a hell of a team against Ohio State.

[A]

And I said, right, he's on the road.

[B]

On the road.

[A]

His first big start, huge spotlight.

[B]

I said, man, these guys, these fools on tv gonna kill him Tuesday. Excuse me, kill him Sunday and Monday. But that's the environment we're in now, Bill. And it's really unfortunate. I mean, it's really unfortunate because that's the way you get recognized and make money now. And that's. And that's sad.

[A]

I thought. I thought it really hurt the NBA the last couple years. And, you know, you, you guys took some, Some bullets on it, too, from talking about old generation versus new generation. You guys were too negative about the current game. Um, but I, I, I actually was more on your side with some of that stuff. The stuff I don't like is when we're, you know, and there's people that do it that I actually like. Like, you and I both like Stephen A. But when he was on the NBA Countdown show. And every halftime is about, this guy's gotta step up because they're losing. Cause of him. Where is he? And it's just. I don't know. It's just not for me.

[B]

I think what. We're losing number one. You have a great point. But this. We got so many great players in the NBA, but these fools spend all their time comparing, like, michael Jordan's dead. Okay? Michael Jordan's dead. He's been retired forever.

[A]

Yeah, over 20 years.

[B]

These fools spend all their time comparing him to LeBron. I'm like, why? Michael Jordan's been dead for 20 some years. Let him. Let's let LeBron be LeBron. We're starting to do the stupid shit in golf now, man. Scottie Shepler just as good as Tiger. I'm like, damn, y' all just see him ruin the NBA. We can't appreciate LeBron's greatness or Steph Curry's greatness. We got to compare him to a guy who's been dead for 20 years. I'm like, why can't. Michael Jordan is great, but so is LeBron. So is Kobe, so is Steph, so is Joker. Why do y' all have to get on TV first? Cause it's. They got no talent. They got no talent, Bill, because they know people gonna go on the Internet and argue with them or go on the Internet on these radio shows and argue with them. That's why they do it. Now, I see these fools doing it in golf. Scottie Scheffler, he's great. I love Scottie Scheffler. He's good as Tiger. I'm like, well, I'm sitting here like Scottish. Scheffler is 29, and he's won four majors. Tiger won four majors at 24 after.

[A]

Winning three amateurs in a row before he even turned proud.

[B]

I'm not sure. And Tiger's won 30 times by then, and Scott has won 17 times. He's 29. Why can't we just appreciate his greatness? Why y' all have to be lazy and just bring that up? Tigers is a once in a generation type player. Scotty, if he keeps rolling, he's the best in this generation. But these guys, they need hot takes on television and radio because they need fools to click on them on the Internet or call to answer their radio shows. It drives me crazy. I says, michael's the best I've ever seen. I love him. I respect him. The next I've seen is Kobe. Now, the last 20 years been Steph and LeBron. I don't have to compare them. I can appreciate their greatness. Scotty is the best we got going today. I don't have to compare him to Tiger or Jack or Arnie or Gary Player. But these guys have become lazy because they know people are going to get on their computer and come after them, or a lot of them have radio shows. I have friends in Philadelphia, where I live during the summer. I play golf with them in the morning.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I said, what are you going to talk about today? They're like, we going to talk about Michael, Kobe, LeBron, guys like that. I'm like, why are you doing that?

[A]

Is Jalen Hurts good enough even though he already won a Super Bowl?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Can you win two Super Bowls with Jalen Hurts? That's our topic today.

[B]

Yeah. And they tell me the truth. They're like, charles, you don't understand how the media works. I said, this is in the 80s and 90s, Bill. And they said, this is how the media works. We got to get fools to call in and argue with us for four hours. We don't believe half the shit that we say. I said, what? He says. I'm on radio for four hours. If I say Michael's the best half, the people gonna call in and say he was. The other half gonna call in and talk about LeBron. He's the greatest. But then some sprinkler's gonna come in, talk about Bill and Wilt. He says, that's what our job is in the media. We're on radio for four hours. And then I was like, wow, that's interesting. And these are some of my great friends who have some of the most popular shows in Philadelphia in the 80s and 90s. They're like, our job is just to get people and call in and argue for four hours. It taught me a lot about the media. Now the difference is now is they're all on TV making millions of dollars.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's. And that was one reason I was hesitant to do the ESPN deal. To be honest with you.

[A]

I was going to ask you about.

[B]

That because I don't want to do that. Like, I want to go on tv. One of the reasons I love doing your podcast, I got. And I'm not saying it's going to be a podcast. I don't do many podcasts. I like you and I know you going to be honest on a straight shooter that even if I disagree.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I know. One of the reasons I hated Skip Bayless, like, yo, man, people. You can disagree with people, but people believe television is so powerful. People believe what we say. They do. And I don't mind agreeing or disagreeing with people, but I ain't gonna say shit just to get people to call in and argue with me. That's one reason I like you. I know you're like, I'm gonna try to do my job to the best of my abilities. I don't care who clicks on to me. I ain't trying to get people to like me or dislike me. That's the reason I. First I develop a hatred for Skip Bailey's like, yo, man, you can't like people believe what we say.

[A]

Right. Like, I had one of these. I had one of these a couple weeks ago. Cause I genuinely think Josh Allen was the best QB in the league last year. Even though the results didn't happen, he won. And I was saying like, so trying to figure out who's the quarterback hierarchy heading into this year. And I'm like, I just think Josh is the best qb. I know Mahomes has the resume. I don't think he was that good last year for. By his standards. And I can't put him first based on what he did three years ago.

[B]

So I, So I got friends who work at espn.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And there's a racial component of it too.

[A]

Right. Well.

[B]

And I.

[A]

The Yokic and Beat thing was brutal. That was, that was the worst.

[B]

I said, they asked me my opinion. I said, I think Josh Allen's mvp.

[A]

Right.

[B]

They're like, well, what about Lamar? Lamar had a great year. He's amazing. I love Lamar. I said, but your question is who had the best year? I says, who is Derek? Who's Josh Allen got in the backfield? Now, the Cook kid is a good player. He's not Derrick Henry.

[A]

Right.

[B]

He's not Derek.

[A]

Which coaching staff would you rather have? Which infrastructure?

[B]

Who are Josh Allen? Wide receivers. I think the best one was Shakir. Shakir, yeah. And then the kid who. The Coleman kid, who's the rookie. Then you got the kid who comes to games who's naked. And I says, josh, do not have. And they had a better record, and they beat them head to head. I said, so if he's got Derrick Henry, the best running back in the league, he's got better wide receivers. But Josh Allen, they thought the Bills were going to take a step back because they cut everybody after last year.

[A]

I picked them to miss the playoffs. Last year, they lost so many guys that didn't even seem conceivable. Yeah.

[B]

Why was he not the mvp?

[A]

If this was the NBA, we'd be going, josh Allen needs more help. And Josh Allen's agents would be leaking stuff. They got to make a move. They need a star receiver.

[B]

And that's another thing I hate about the move, to be honest with you.

[A]

The ESPN move.

[B]

Yes. These guys get on TV every day and says, are they wasting Giannis's career?

[A]

Giannis won a title already.

[B]

I know, but I'm saying they're wasting the Joker's career.

[A]

And I'm saying, he won a title.

[B]

They got to get LeBron some help.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm saying, well, wait a minute. I don't remember y' all saying that shit about me and Patrick Ewing. Y' all never got on TV and said, we're wasting Charles Barkley career in Philadelphia.

[A]

I was saying it, but I was in a bar in Boston. I didn't have a microphone.

[B]

It drives me crazy. Because that's this thing now. If you don't win every year, they want you to move. They're like, giannis gotta move. They're wasting him. I'm like, wait a minute. I was in Philly, I had no help. Patrick Yun was in New York. He had no help. I remember y' all getting on tv, saying, help Patrick. Help Charles. But on TV now, should Giannis want to leave Milwaukee? Should the Joker want to leave Denver? I'm like, damn, what happened when y' all have this new dynamic, like, damn, I want to help in Philly. Y' all didn't never say Charles needed help. But now every star, like, he's got to get out of there.

[A]

I know, but Think about Dirk Nowitzki in 2011 is the best example of this, where we could have done this whole cycle with him for four years after they lose that warriors, and he stays and he ends up winning there. And that's like the best title anyone won in the last 15 years.

[B]

That's like two titles. Yeah, but there's this new.

[A]

Stuck with it.

[B]

There's this new thing now, Bill. When they see a great player, especially if he's in a small market, they're like, he's got to get out of there. He needs to move. I'm like, damn. Where were y' all when I was in Philly, right when I was going out, no disrespect. When I was going out there, my new bowl in Shelton Jones. I remember y' all saying, hey, we gotta get Charles some help in Philly.

[A]

Some of it's the people around the players, too. It's the agents, it's the handlers. They'll have a trainer now, and they're just kind of constantly, you should be bigger. You'd be a bigger star in a bigger market. You got to get more money. You're better than this guy. You're better than your teammate. And then you start planting the seeds and you go, you mentioned the ESPN thing. I talked on a pod a couple months ago, and I feel like I have a pretty unique perspective because I did the NBA show there, and I saw how they do shows and how they prioritize the pregame, the halftime, the commercial breaks, giving people time to speak. And the reason you guys had the best studio show of all time, other than the talent, was that you had these producers that actually let it breathe. That gave you like, eight, nine minutes at halftime in a row to have a conversation. Do you feel like you're going to be able to do that at espn? And what happens if you can't?

[B]

Well, number one, thank you for the compliment. We don't know. This has been one of the worst. TNT just sucks, to be honest with you, Bill. They made this deal. They haven't told us when we're going to work. They haven't told us how it's going to work because we've been talking behind the scenes, like, do we have to after the game, Are we going to get any time? Are they going to say, hey, you guys got to go to Sports Center?

[A]

Well, listen, they've always gone right to SportsCenter. That's always how it's worked.

[B]

And I've asked that question like, you're right. That's the Best part of our show, after the game we can like have conversation and have fun. Are they gonna say, you guys got 3 minutes, 5 minutes, 15, 20, 30, 45. Like are we going to go straight to Sports Center? They haven't given us an answer whatsoever. And tnt, I think they sold the show and they haven't been non communicable at all.

[A]

What do they care? They got paid. They got paid because the thing is with these shows you can do the pregame show forever and it's fun, but it's basically like a podcast. You're guessing what's going to happen. The post game is the secret sauce. Because you just watch the game, you're reacting to it.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And that was when I did it. I would get mad because they didn't give a shit about hearing from us after the game. And it's like, well, we shouldn't be here then why are we on location? You're gonna do a four minute segment with us.

[B]

Just setting up the game is the easy part. Now you can tell why a team won and the team lost, who played good, who played bad. Like that is the secret sauce. They have not said anything to us about, hey, are we gonna be able to do that after the game? And like I say, TNT didn't care. They just took like, they think we morons if they think we don't think they got paid something. I mean, come on, we're not fooling.

[A]

Oh yeah. Also they have a rule with the finals about, on abc, you have to get the fuck out of there and throw it to local news, like with a certain. So you're gonna have to switch channels to watch you guys, which ain't nothing either.

[B]

I want to tell you something, what you just said, because to me it's going to be one of the biggest issues. I've been telling my friends, they're like, what do you think? I says, well, number one, we're concerned about the whole ESPN thing as far as do we have to go to Sports Center? I said, but I think the NBA's got a big problem. I says, they gonna, how are they gonna tell people what night the games are on? I says, the games have been on 40 years. They've been on ESPN on Tuesday. Excuse me, on ESPN, on TNT on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

[A]

Right. And ESPN Wednesday, Friday, then Saturday night.

[B]

Then some Sunday, but Saturday is gone because of Amazon. So when I met with NBC, they said we're going to do games on Monday and Tuesday and then when the NFL ends, we're going to do Sunday, Monday and Tuesday. I think ESPN is going to do Wednesday and Friday, and I think Amazon is going to do Thursday and Saturday. But my thing is, how are regular fans gonna, like, okay, it's Tuesday, especially when they start putting games up.

[A]

Yeah, where do I go?

[B]

Well, like Casino, sometimes the game's gonna be on Peacock and like, it's not gonna be on NBC. I think that's a huge dilemma for the NBA.

[A]

Guess what? They don't care.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

They got so much money, they're going to wipe their tears with cash.

[B]

Real. I'm so glad you said that. I think it's a big deal because they just took all the money from all three networks. I don't think they give a shit about the fans, and I think this is going to come back to bite them, to be honest with you.

[A]

This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. As a small business owner, you don't have the luxury of clocking out early. Your business is on your mind 24 7. So when you're hiring, you need a partner that works just as hard as you do. That hiring partner is LinkedIn Jobs. When you clock out, LinkedIn clocks in. LinkedIn's new feature can help you write job descriptions and then quickly get your job in front of the right people with deep candidate insights. Nice. At the end of the day, the most important thing to your small business is the quality of candidates. And with LinkedIn, you can feel confident you're getting the best. You can even add a hashtag hiring frame to your profile picture and get two times more qualified candidates. Post your job for [e-mail] Simmons terms and conditions apply. This episode is brought to you by NBA 2K26. A favor to my sons and me. All right, quick break. NBA 2K26 stacked this year. Gameplay new motion engine smoother catch and shoot. The rhythm shooting is dialed in. My team added the W so now you can get Caitlin Clark pulling up from deep. Larry Bird talking trash mid game. Jokic casually dropping triple doubles. It's absurd in the best way. Mycareer has a whole new storyline. The city's tighter and you're on the court way faster. I've been playing video basketball games. I think the first one was early 80s. I'm stunned. Like when I. When I go and my son's playing with his friends and I go in and I barge my room and I start playing with them. I'm just amazed by how good, how detailed all the games are, how they really look like NBA players. 2K26 is finally here. And, yeah, it is absolutely loaded. If you care about basketball, even though literally you're checking it out today. Ball over everything. Well, if you talk to anybody from the NBA, as I know you have, how many years have they been complaining about how ESPN covers the league? I mean, at least 10, right? 10, 12, 15. Like, I hate to. We hate the discourse. We hate that they do that. And it's like, you just took their money again. You can't say anything. You took their money one more time. So now that's a new point.

[B]

But, yeah, but they took the money. But also to take the money from NBC and Amazon, it's like, yeah, we just gonna take the money. And then the thing that's scared, this deal is for 11 years, right? So now people complain all they want to for the next 11 years. They don't give a shit about the fans. They're like, y', all, if y' all find the games fine, just make sure the check clears.

[A]

Well, I think Amazon's gonna do a really good job. Cause I. I think they've done a good job with football, and I think they. I. I think their attitude toward how they're gonna cover it and how much attention, like, they're gonna be fine. NBC is gonna do it like they did NFL.

[B]

I think they can all be fine. They just got to figure out how the regular fan are going to find it.

[A]

Right? Cause that's a frustrating thing with NFL where you're like, what's. Oh, it's. Wait a second. This game's on. It's Black Friday on Amazon, and you're floating around.

[B]

Okay. Like, okay, we know the ESPN got the games on Wednesday and Friday. That's pretty stable. But okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Are the games on NBC or they on Peacock? And again, what two nights is Amazon? Are they okay? Yeah, they took TNT's nights. Do they get TNT Tuesday?

[A]

But I have League Pass 2.

[B]

Well, wait a minute. So TNT, Amazon, you get TNT Thursday, but you don't get there Tuesday. That goes to NBC. I know people think that's simple, but you should always try to make it simple for the fans.

[A]

Well, and then for you, it's gonna be like, where do you get you guys? Cause that's the other piece people are gonna care about. And then on top of it, you're gonna be at espn. I'm sure there's gonna be some back and forth with different people on the shows. You're not gonna put up with it. Cause you're old. You don't care. You're just gonna Go right back at.

[B]

Everybody, I think, listen, it's gonna be an honor and a privilege to work for espn. Cause they're the greatest sports network ever.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I just hope that we get to do what we do, man.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

Like, see, you one of the few people who understand the question, the points that I'm asking. Like, wait, we gotta go to local news or we gotta go to SportsCenter, or we gotta do both.

[A]

The game just ended. How do I find you guys? I have to flip channels.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, wait, they're in commercial. Am I on the right channel? What's up? Yeah.

[B]

People who actually understand that, like, okay, we got to go to local news. Like, we've never fucking had to go to local news before. You know, we've never had to go to SportsCenter and.

[A]

Yeah, but. But most of the people that produce these shows have never been on the shows. And when you've been on it, you. You understand the rhythm a bit differently. For whatever reason, Tim Kiley, your guy forever, he fundamentally understood how to make you guys succeed. And that you guys needed time and you needed to breathe. And that was what made it special. Most people, they don't see it that way.

[B]

Now. I'm hoping that we get to breathe.

[A]

Yeah, you're gonna have, like, trust me, I did him a couple years. You're gonna have like a 2 1/2 minute halftime show on location at the finals. Like, he was like, wait, I just started my point. We're going to commercial again. What happened?

[B]

You know? And I've been able to scream at tnt, people. I've done it live on air. I'm not done with my point. Hold that damn comm. And I want to make my point. Cause it was an important point. But like I say, man, I don't know. But I'm concerned. I ain't never going to get on your show or any show in life. Like, I am concerned about going forward.

[A]

Well, I will say we've said goodbye to inside the NBA, it feels like for three straight years, and you guys are still on. You guys are like boxers that keep retiring. It's like when Ali retired over and over again in the 70s and then he would fight again.

[B]

You know, this was. You know, I really grew to hate the people I work for. To be honest with you, Bill.

[A]

Because I could tell.

[B]

No, because, Bill, there's a way you treat people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We should not learn that we got fired or whatever from the Internet. Ernie Johnson deserves better. Literally. This is a true story. We were playing golf in the Playoffs. I was playing with my boy Alex, and Underdog and Mike. We were literally in between shots, looking at the Internet. One article comes out, TNT lost the package. Like, guys, we lost the package. Another article come out, we kept the package. Another article come out, we lost the package. Another one. We're literally playing golf. And in between shots, we're reading the Internet. And then nothing happens. Nobody says anything. And I'm literally sitting at a house on a Friday night. I get a text from Van Pelt, Bob Myers, L. Duncan, and Brian Windhorse. Welcome me to the family. This is a Friday night. Nobody's told us anything. I get this text from four ESPN people welcoming me to the family. About two hours later, I get a call from tnt. Hey, this story broke. No shit. The show's going to espn. And I'm like, well, y' all had to negotiate something before it broke. How about a heads up, Ernie Jones?

[A]

I also don't understand how they negotiate it without knowing if you were gonna be on the show.

[B]

That's my point. That's my point, Bill. And I'm sitting here like, oh, welcome to the family. It was a Friday night, and I was like, wait, welcome to what family? Then I said, I got the call from TNT like, two hours later saying, hey, unfortunately, the story broke. Like, the story broke because y' all got a damn deal. How about if y' all signed a deal, call us four immediately and said, hey, guys, we got a deal to trade y' all show the espn. And that's one of the reasons I developed animosity toward them. Like, yo, just tell us. Because if he had to call us and said, you know what, guys? This is a bad deal. They want us to go from 1.2 to 2.5 billion a year for 11 years. We can't afford that. That's all TNT had to say, Bill. And we would have said, we understand that's not a great deal. But for us to hear from the Internet and ESPN people that we lost the package, that's just unprofessional. And I get mad for Ernie. Cause Ernie's the godfather. Ernie Johnson should never have to hear from other people that he lost his gig.

[A]

Right? Well, he was also telling everybody, I don't want another job. This is where I want to end my career. I have these crazy ties with TNT and TBS in Atlanta, and I don't want to do anything else.

[B]

Well, so I'm with him on that. And I'll tell you the truth, Bill. The only reason me and Ernie decided to stay was the People at TNT got to keep their jobs because I got off. So I met with Amazon, and I met with NBC, got a offer for more money from NBC.

[A]

I thought that's where you were going to go.

[B]

Well, I probably would have went there. They had a bunch of bullshit. They were talking about not going to lie. They offered me more money. But when they sent the contract to me, it had Kentucky Derby. It had the US Open.

[A]

Oh, see, I would have liked you on both of those.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It had five appearances on Today.

[A]

I'm still intrigued.

[B]

Five appearances on Jimmy Fallon, the Olympics, and 28 and 30. And I says, I guess y' all didn't hear the part where I wanted to. Because I will tell you what's funny.

[A]

I liked all those things.

[B]

I thought they made a good case. Bill. I'm not going to work more. As I get older, I'm working less. Yeah.

[A]

I would have liked to see what's.

[B]

Ironic about the contract. When we first started talking, they says I was going to work two days a week, which I hadn't worked two days a week in 25 years.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I said, you know what? Cause I like the guys. Cause the boss at NBC hired me at Turner. I got a lot of love for Mark Lazarus. I said, you know what? I can work Monday and Tuesday. I'm good with that. So I'm like, okay, send me a contract. Let me take a look at it. But then by the time I got the contract, they're like, well, once football over, you're gonna work three days a week. That was my first red flag. And then when they Put Kentucky Derby, US Open.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Olympics 28 and 30, I says, hell, no. And so then the thing with Turner comes back, and they're like, guys, we can keep the show going, and we get to keep everybody at Turner. I mean, Ernie were like, okay, that's best scenario. Because one of the things that intrigued me and Ernie about NBC, they told us we could bring all the people with us.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which was me and Ernie's only concern. When me and Ernie met with NBC, they're like, you guys can bring anybody you want to. And I was like, we can bring everybody behind the scenes. They said, we'll film this show in Atlanta, and you can bring anybody you want to. So that got me and Ernie's attention.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But then the thing with ESPN came up, and we're like, well, if we can keep Stay the same and bring everybody with us, let's take that deal.

[A]

All right. Well, it sounds like you're still conflicted about it.

[B]

I'm not conflicted because 200 people gonna keep their job. They're like my family members.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's all I really cared about. Cause Bill, I will tell you something. This was a very difficult couple years for me mentally because you know, I'm in the sports world my whole life. I ain't never been around a lot of real people. You know, all of my NBA friends and TV friends, they got a lot of money and I'm blessed. I'm not being an ungrateful person. I'm very blessed and thankful. But to be around my co workers, TV people who were gonna lose their job, and to hear them talking about mortgage, taking their kids out of private school, that they never had to worry about. Cause we never under any circumstances thought that TNT was gonna lo. But it was becoming increasingly clear. And man, we just fired a gazillion people from NBA tv, which was painful because I know all those guys and people behind the scenes, but for the last, especially last year, but really the last couple years, and it was like we might lose the NBA. To be around people who I genuinely care about, to hear them talk about mortgage, to hear them talking about taking their kids out of private school and things like that, talking about downgrading where they live, man, it was really painful for me because you know, I'm in the NBA. I ain't ever had one of my friends talk about mortgage and say I got to downgrade my kids schooling. Like it was really painful for me as a person.

[A]

Yeah, well, I mean, I think about the late night shows right as the late night air is kind of ending. Like colbert shows ending. 200 people work for that show. I mean, Kim was deciding how long he wants to go. 200 people are hinging on the decision.

[B]

And like, and they act like these people can just go get another job. I says it doesn't work like that. I said, man, jobs, jobs just don't grow on tree, especially in our community. Because if we fire those 200 people in Atlanta, number one, 200 people ain't gonna have a job. A couple like they were talking about, well, if you go to Amazon, you gotta move to California. That's a whole different animal. And I'm not even sure what an NBC decided to do their show at. So people act like, well, we can just go get another job. I'm like, it's not that simple. Even if Amazon want to hire you, how many people can just pick up and move to California? That's a different animal. From a economic standpoint or same thing. If NBC moves everything to New York, that's a whole nother animal.

[A]

So you in California could have been a reality show that could have potentially funded some of this, too. I love you. Living here, I think would have been absolutely fascinating.

[B]

I wouldn't have never lived there.

[A]

I think that should have been part of the deal. It's like Amazon. But you have to live here. Well, to pick a neighborhood. And you have to be an LA person.

[B]

They would have to really give me a really good condo, a house or something.

[A]

Bel Air. You could play Bel Air with Doc.

[B]

Somewhere right by the studio.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

A nice condo, three bedroom. You can't have.

[A]

I think they have those here.

[B]

Yeah. I'm a big believer. You can never have more than two people visiting at the same time. Any more than two people. You're crowded.

[A]

Oh, that's interesting. No matter how big your house is.

[B]

No, I'm not. I'm not big on guests.

[A]

Yeah, that is. That does get tough when you have kids. And you. Well, you're. You're staying. Aren't you staying at your kid's house right now?

[B]

I am. My daughter. My two grandkids. Yes. All right.

[A]

How old are the grandkids?

[B]

Three and two. Little Henry, he's three. And little Charlie, she's two.

[A]

So at some point, you got to break out the YouTube clips of you going coast to coast.

[B]

You know, there's some good YouTube mixes with you. My life revolves around Ms. Rachel and Daniel Tiger. That's pretty much it right now.

[A]

Those are the kids shows. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Ms. Rachel and Daniel Tiger. That's pretty much it. And the rest of these are watching Guard over the Swimming Pool.

[A]

Right?

[B]

That's it.

[A]

That's an important job, though.

[B]

It's a very important job. Cause you. Man, they were so cute in the beginning. Now they won't sit still like they were so cute in the beginning. They just sit on your lap and you just kiss them like a million times.

[A]

Once they can run, it's over.

[B]

Oh, my God. Once they start walking and running, all hell breaking. I need a nap. Every time I see him right after that, I do. You need a nap. It is amazing how they go from, oh, you're so cute. But then once they learn to walk and run, they never sit still. It's crazy.

[A]

So you have to wrap up. You have Philadelphia beating who in the Super Bowl.

[B]

You know, I'm hoping it's the Buffalo Bills. I'm. I would like to see either Josh Allen or. I like Josh Allen a lot as a Person. The Ravens. The Ravens. You know, when you. A great player like Lamar and Josh, are you on the shit list like me until you win the championship? And it sucks because, you know, it's a team game. But when you're a great player, you get all the credit and you get all the blame.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I would like to see Josh Olimar win the Super Bowl. I think Baltimore has a better team. Cause their defense is better.

[A]

Slightly better coaching staff. Buffalo has a better offensive line.

[B]

Yeah, but they got that. You know, they revamped their defense last year.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So. But my Eagles, man, they're loaded. The defense got to grow up. But Joshua Lamar.

[A]

So. So I had Buffalo over Green Bay before the Parsons trade.

[B]

One day before, that was my pay. Don't you.

[A]

It almost seems too easy now. Now it's like, you know, that Parsons.

[B]

Trade, that was the love. Kid got to play better.

[A]

True. He was hurt last year.

[B]

He was hurt. See, that's the thing that sucks about sports. He got hurt in the first game.

[A]

And then had two more injuries.

[B]

But once you get hurt and people think when you come back, you're healthy. When you come back, you're not healthy. It takes a while to get back. And then he gets hurts again. But you know what? I give them credit. Hey, man, we did it in Philadelphia the last couple years, right? That's why Howie is the best general manager. That goes back to. We were talking about earlier, man. Very seldom do you have a chance to win. Like, very. You give Howie, like, I need a wide receiver. He went and got AJ Then he like, we're not good enough. I need a running back. He goes out and gets Saquon the Packers. Like, man, when you have a chance to win, you gotta go for it.

[A]

Well, that. But that was the frustration with Denver for me, with yo. With what they did with Jokic the last two years where, you know, they won the title and they're like, okay, we won a title. It's like, you have the best guy of this decade. Every year that this guy's on your team, you have to spend as most money, the most money you possibly can. Because this is like. This is fucking generational. This is a unicorn. And they didn't do it last year. They cheaped out, I thought.

[B]

But see the problem they got now they're trying to play catch up. And I always. And I tell people this. You never catch up. It might be too late, because now they're not head and shoulders the best starting five, you know?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yeah, but. But they got rid of their two best players off the bench when they won the championship.

[A]

Yeah. And some of that was financial.

[B]

I understand that. Dude. Man. Guys will give their right arm and leg to win the championship. Your team gonna be worth billions of freaking dollars. You're gonna haggle over 10, 20, $30 million. Think about that, bill. Your team, every NBA team is worth at least $2 billion.

[A]

Oh my 4. Now the ceilings 4. Portland got 4.25.

[B]

So think about this. You had a chance to keep KCP and Bruce Brown. Probably cost you another 30, maybe 40 million. You're going to team going to appreciate three, $400 million. Especially if you win. You're probably going to make that money up. If you go deep in the playoffs. Man, if you got a chance to win, you better go for it. And they really wasted the joker the last couple years. But like I say, the problem they got now is they're not better than Oklahoma City. Right. And I'm not sure they're better than the Rockets.

[A]

Yeah. If Thompson goes up a level, Houston could be in the two spot. It's a bummer because I, I don't know. I, I, I was there for Bird of Magic. You, you were too, in a different way. You played against them.

[B]

I think about this. Hold on. Perfect example. Go back and look. This is what. When those guys had birds, they bought in somebody every year, right. What about the Lakers? They bought in somebody every year. You can never stand pat when you win the Celtics, they bought in Walton one year.

[A]

And then the Lakers bring in Michael Thompson the next year to respond.

[B]

Michael Thompson, they brought in Bob McAdoon.

[A]

Sam Perkins.

[B]

Sam Perkins, like that's the, that was made, that's what made the Lakers and the Celtics the two greatest NBA franchises ever. Hey, we're not trying to win one Championship. We're not trying to win two Championship, we're not trying to win three. That's what made the Celtics and the Lakers the best franchises in NBA history.

[A]

They never, I think OKC might be wired that way. The way they think of this, long term, short term, at the same time about how to build something that's seven, eight years and not two.

[B]

Oh, they're going to be the favorite. Well, actually your Celtics would have been the favorite the next five years if they didn't get hurt.

[A]

Yeah, but at least in the East.

[B]

Yes, in the east, but okc. Because they only gotta pay those top three guys. And I'm gonna tell you something. Hardenstein and Caruso, they'll give a hometown discount.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then they got More young players and damn draft picks. Because I tell these guys, if I'm Hartenstein and Caruso, I'm not taking an extra $5 million to suck. Hey.

[A]

Well, that was the famous Julian Edelman story when Jacksonville was trying to sign him and he basically took 4 million less to stay with. He's like, I'm playing with Tom Brady. I'm factor that in.

[B]

If I'm going to play with those top three guys in Oklahoma City, if I can get $5 million from a shit team or I can get three and a half. If I get three and a half, I'm going to make another million in endorsements because I'm on the best team in the NBA.

[A]

And playoff money, too, right? You get some of that, too.

[B]

I don't know Hardenstein and Caruso that. Well, they are really important to okc. I guarantee you they'll take a hometown discount to stay because like I say, they're going to be favored easily. Even if they don't win the championship, they're going to be first or second the next five years easily.

[A]

Yeah. Well, that's the thing I never understood with Jokic. Like, if in the old days people were like, I get to play with Magic. I'm going to let me get to the Lakers to play with that guy. I don't understand why people didn't see Jokic like that. I could play with that guy. It's like the most fun guy in the league to play with. People felt that way about Duncan in the 2000s, right?

[B]

Once oak. I think once they started trading players, they weren't.

[A]

They got the stink on them. All right, this was a good catch up. Chuck.

[B]

Hey, brother.

[A]

Glad you're well. It's always great to see you. I'm rooting for you at this next stop. We'll see how it goes. Hey, I'm going to bet on Barkley all the time.

[B]

I got a lot of love and respect for brother. Thanks for having me on.

[A]

All right, great to see you. Thanks, man. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to the one and only Charles Barkley. Don't forget about new Rewatchables, our 400th movie that we've done. We did American Gangster and then what else do I have? Oh, yeah, more podcasts coming this week. At least one more, probably two as we head toward week one of the NFL season. So stay tuned. We're going to keep the content coming. Don't forget about all the other ringer football stuff we have in the works as well. And I'LL see you a little later in the week. Must be 21 plus in President select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + in President D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem call 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com, call 1-887-89-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York.