“Is This Real?” NFL Questions and Summer Scuttlebutt With Dianna Russini

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Is This Real?" NFL Questions and Summer Scuttlebutt With Dianna Russini

Episode: “Is This Real?” NFL Questions and Summer Scuttlebutt With Dianna Russini
Release Date: August 4, 2025
Host: Bill Simmons, The Ringer
Guest: Dianna Russini

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Yankees' Recent Struggles and Managerial Concerns

Bill Simmons opened the episode discussing the New York Yankees' disappointing performance, highlighted by their recent sweep by Miami. Despite making significant trade deadline moves to bolster their bullpen, the Yankees continue to underperform, raising fears about the potential firing of manager Aaron Boone.

Bill Simmons [05:20]: "I’m actually worried that they’re going to fire Aaron Boone now, and I don’t want them to fire him. I actually want them to extend him and give him more money in longer years."

Simmons reminisced about the 2003 Red Sox-ALCS Game 7 loss and expressed his desire to see Boone and general manager Brian Cashman remain with the team for the foreseeable future.

ESPN's Acquisition of NFL Network

Simmons shifted focus to ESPN's recent acquisition of the NFL Network, expressing confusion and skepticism about the deal's implications for NFL media coverage, particularly the Red Zone broadcast.

Bill Simmons [09:00]: "I’m actually worried that they’re going to fire Aaron Boone now, and I don’t want them to fire him."

Despite reaching out to industry contacts, Simmons and Russini found little clarity on ESPN's strategic intentions, leaving them uncertain about future changes to NFL broadcasting.

Marvel’s Fantastic Four and the Future of Superhero Movies

The discussion pivoted to Marvel’s recent release of "Fantastic Four," which performed poorly in its second weekend. Industry insiders are speculating that this may mark the end of Marvel’s “Capes and Masks” era, potentially leading to more investment in original IP and non-superhero films.

Bill Simmons [12:30]: "I like that we’re at least having the conversation about maybe we need more good movies that aren’t superhero movies."

Both hosts expressed skepticism, with Simmons doubting Marvel's commitment to moving away from superhero-centric narratives despite the film's lackluster performance.

Steve Pagliucca’s Ownership Challenges with the Celtics and Nets

Simmons and Russini delved into Steve Pagliucca's missed opportunities in NBA team ownership. Despite attempts to acquire the Brooklyn Nets and later bidding for the Boston Celtics, Pagliucca fell short, ultimately purchasing the Connecticut Sun for a fraction of the price.

Billy Simmons [20:00]: “If you could have had the Liberty as part of the deal. Wow.”

They highlighted the challenges Pagliucca faces amidst an already financially strained WNBA league and potential player strikes.

Lakers’ LUCA Extension and LeBron's Influence

The conversation shifted to the Lakers’ recent LUCA extension, describing it as a two-year deal with a player option, positioning LeBron James to maximize his earnings while seemingly diminishing his on-court control.

Bill Simmons [25:00]: "LeBron James... this is the first time ever where that’s not the case."

Simmons likened the situation to a relationship dynamic, emphasizing his intrigue over the media manipulation surrounding the extension.

WWE’s Storytelling and Fake Injuries

Russini shared insights on WWE’s advanced storytelling techniques, specifically praising the recent injury storyline involving Seth Rollins and CM Punk, which she described as one of the greatest "injury swerves" in wrestling history.

Diana Russini [10:26]: "I loved it. I love the Rollins thing."

She expressed a wish to see similar narrative twists in other sports, enhancing drama and viewer engagement.

Personal Labor Stories: A Heartfelt Exchange

Bill and Dianna engaged in a heartfelt exchange about their personal experiences with childbirth, sharing anecdotes about the intensity and memorable moments of labor. These stories provided a personal touch, highlighting the human aspects behind their sports commentary personas.

Bill Simmons [14:42]: "12 minutes? That’s amazing."

Diana Russini [15:17]: "It was the single most impressive thing I've ever seen in my life."

NFL Team Analyses

Chicago Bears and Caleb Williams

Russini provided a detailed analysis of the Chicago Bears' new quarterback, Caleb Williams. She debated the concerns surrounding his adjustment to Ben Johnson’s system, emphasizing the need for patience as Williams adapts to structured play-calling from his collegiate freestyle style.

Diana Russini [27:39]: "I just think it's time to panic. I just think Chicago Bears fans are just going to need a little bit more patience."

Dallas Cowboys and Micah Parsons Holdout

A significant portion of the episode focused on the Dallas Cowboys' Micah Parsons holdout. Russini expressed doubts about the legitimacy of his trade demands, suggesting that owner Jerry Jones might be using the holdout to generate publicity rather than intending to trade the star linebacker.

Bill Simmons [46:16]: "I just don't believe this for a second. Do you think this is real?"

Diana Russini [48:00]: "I don't think it's real that Micah Parsons is going to get traded, but I do think the beef is real, really."

The discussion highlighted the complexities of player-owner relationships and the potential long-term implications for the Cowboys.

Cleveland Browns and Team Dysfunction

The hosts critically examined the Cleveland Browns, labeling them as one of the most dysfunctional teams in the NFL. Despite recent attempts to stabilize the team, ongoing issues with management and player performance left little hope for a turnaround.

Bill Simmons [63:09]: "They’re clearly the most dysfunctional of all the NFL teams now and have been for a while."

Denver Broncos’ Optimism

Contrasting with the Browns, the Denver Broncos were portrayed more optimistically, with Russini noting the team’s strong defense and promising coaching staff under Sean Payton. They discussed the Broncos' favorable schedule and potential for overperformance, though acknowledging betting odds were underrated.

Bill Simmons [41:50]: "I just have more confidence in Minnesota."

Minnesota Vikings’ Quarterback Concerns

The conversation touched on the Minnesota Vikings’ quarterback situation, particularly the development of JJ McCarthy. Russini expressed skepticism about his readiness, citing his hiatus from football and the team’s reliance on him in a high-pressure environment.

Diana Russini [85:56]: "Look, this is a team that's built to win. They are built to win."

Tom Brady’s Involvement with the Raiders

Russini and Simmons debated the authenticity of Tom Brady’s reported involvement with the Las Vegas Raiders. They questioned whether Brady's association was genuine or merely a media-driven narrative, considering his prior career associations and public persona.

Diana Russini [67:10]: "He is involved in everything. First of all, it's Tom Brady."

Mary Kay Cabot’s Hall of Fame Induction

The episode featured discussions about Mary Kay Cabot’s induction into the Sports Writers Hall of Fame. Cabot's remarks on gender dynamics in sports journalism, particularly her interactions with Bill Belichick, were highlighted as empowering and reflective of her resilience in a male-dominated field.

Diana Russini [61:10]: "She was tough with Bill. You know, good for Mary Kay."

Final Thoughts and Future Predictions

As the episode concluded, Simmons and Russini recapped their assessments of various NFL teams, expressing cautious optimism for the Jets and skepticism for teams like Cleveland and Tennessee. They emphasized the importance of coaching, team culture, and player adaptability in determining the upcoming season's outcomes.

Bill Simmons [89:00]: "But they're coming off like. I understand they."

They also touched on the unpredictability of player performance and team dynamics, underscoring the fluid nature of sports where fortunes can change rapidly.

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Notable Quotes:

• Bill Simmons [05:20]: "I’m actually worried that they’re going to fire Aaron Boone now, and I don’t want them to fire him. I actually want them to extend him and give him more money in longer years."

• Diana Russini [10:26]: "I loved it. I love the Rollins thing."

• Diana Russini [27:39]: "I just think Chicago Bears fans are just going to need a little bit more patience."

• Diana Russini [48:00]: "I don't think it's real that Micah Parsons is going to get traded, but I do think the beef is real, really."

• Diana Russini [61:10]: "She was tough with Bill. You know, good for Mary Kay."

This episode provided an in-depth exploration of current NFL dynamics, interspersed with personal anecdotes and sharp analyses, making it a valuable listen for sports enthusiasts looking to stay informed on the latest league developments.

Transcript

[Bill Simmons]

This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Cracking open a cold one on a hot summer day is one of the best feelings, but it's even better when it feels like you earned it. Like in a friendly little competition. It's always better when there's something worth playing for. And Michelob Ultra, a superior light beer is a pretty great prize. I would. I mean, I would be all tennis for Michelob Ultras because that's what I do all summer. Because tennis is an actual sport, unlike pickleball. So tennis, doubles, singles, whatever. Let's play for an Ultra. Fill your fridge with Michelob Ultra this [e-mail] enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2025 Anheuser Busch. Michelob Ultra Light Beer, St. Louis, MO this episode is brought to you by Wayfair. Your home is more than a space. It's where you express yourself. Like We've all got our game day set up right? I'm all about the viewing experience and the entertaining. So I got my sofa in optimum viewing position and I got my grill and patio set up for halftime or after the game. Whatever your vibe, Wayfair is the trusted destination for all things home. They've got all your home essentials, storage solutions, decor and more all in one place. Get inspired with room ideas and curated collections, all with everyday ways to save. Shop everything [e-mail] with free and easy delivery straight to your door. That is W A Y-F A I R.com Wayfair every style every Home the Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network where you can find a new episode of the Rewatchables coming on Monday. We're doing One Name Movie Month and we're doing Robocop on Monday. It is me. It is Kyle Brandt. I really, really enjoyed revisiting this movie and I learned some stuff. Hopefully you'll learn some stuff too. You can follow it on The Ringer Movies YouTube channel and stay tuned for the rest of One Name Movie Month. So Diana Marsini is coming on a little bit to talk about NFL. There's some lazy summer stuff I just wanted to go over really fast. Nothing even worthy of a full segment but but just stuff that I was amused by over the last couple days. Number one is the Yankees who got swept by Miami this week. All my Yankee fan friends are going bonkers. We had Jacko on last week going nuts about it and it's somehow gotten even worse cause they made all these trade deadline moves added beefed up their bullpen and then Miami kicked their butt. I was thinking about it. I'm actually worried that they're going to fire Aaron Boone now, and I don't want them to fire him. I actually want them to extend him and give him more money in longer years. But I want them to keep Boone and Cashman for the rest of the decade. And if you told me in November 2003, right after the devastating ALCS Game 7 loss, that in 20, 25, 22 years later, less than 22 years later, that the Red Sox would win four World Series, that I'd somehow still not like the Red Sox owners even after four World Series, and that Aaron Boone felt like we had installed a mole to ruin the Yankees, I probably wouldn't have believed any of that. But that's where we are with the Yankees. I hope they continue to lose. I think they're 21 and 28 in their last 49. It's bad. I love it. I love it. Between that and the Red Sox punted on the trade deadline and somehow swept the Astros, which was great. It's not like the movie Major League because they've spent money in the team, but it's just funny that they needed one more starter. The owners were like, ah, whatever. And then they ripped through the Astros. So great times. And Roman Anthony got a walk off the Roman Empire. Anyway, that's one thing I was reading this week because I was debating whether it was worth doing a segment on espn, buying the NFL Network and all the NFL media stuff, and they're getting the red zone. Are they going to screw up the red zone? I don't understand this deal. And I texted and asked a few people and nobody seems to understand the deal. I guess they just acquired some assets. We'll see what they do. At one point somebody mentioned that it's going to be their relationship with the SEC Network, this network that lives on its own, but they're going to beef it up with more talent. And I'm thinking the NFL Network is going to be like the SEC Network. How does that make sense? I don't understand a single piece of it. The NFL Network was trying to or the NFL is trying to get out of the NFL Network for a while. And now this feels like you give us stuff, we'll give you stuff, but nobody's that excited about it. I don't get it. Hopefully there's a piece in the next 72 hours that will understand what this is like. What's going to happen in the NFL Network shows is the red zone going to have commercials. Are you only going to be able to get it on that ESPN flagship, whatever the F that thing is called? I just feels like kind of an important sports story. The NFL seasons in five weeks, five weeks, six weeks, whatever it is. I'd kind of like to know what's happening so somebody figure out how to report this in a way that I understand all the basics. Next one, Fantastic Four. So it bombed in the second weekend it was out, or it might not have bombed. And then all the movie people are excited because this might be the official end of the Mass and Capes era. That's what I'm calling it, where Marvel's in some trouble. We've just made too many of these now. And now there's a feeling that the less and less successful that these movies become, the more they'll actually spend money on good and original movies and IP and things like Sinners and giving really good directors more money to make cool stuff. I'm dubious. I think they're going to keep rolling out the capes and the masks and making excuses for this. But I like that we're at least having the conversation about maybe we need more good movies. So I'd like to plant my flag in the let's make more good movies that aren't superhero movies. Next thing, Steve Pagliucca, who lost out he was a minority owner of the Celtics at the end of the 2010s, almost bought the Nets and kind of didn't get his stuff together in time. Had Joe sigh as a minority partner, dragged his feet a little bit and then ended up it was the Nets, it was the Liberty, and it was Barclays getting all of it. Joe Tsai ended up saying, screw this, why do I need this guy? Buys all of it himself for 3.3 billion. So Pags doesn't get that. Then he's in on the Celtics sale and had the third highest bid. I think he bid 5.5 billion and that finished third in the rankings and the Celtics ended up going for 6.1 billion. So now he's bought the Connecticut sun for $350 million and isn't even. It's not even clear if he can move them to Boston or not. But this is just a classic, man. Just spend the money in the nets. Five years later, the Connecticut sun for 1/10 the price. You could have had the Liberty as part of the deal. Wow. A lot of text this weekend about what the hell was going on with this whole thing, but the Connecticut sun going for 350 million in a league that is highly leveraged and the players are about to probably go on some sort of strike lockout. God only knows what happens a year and a half from now. Good luck on all of that. The Lakers, so they announced the LUCA extension. It's basically a two year deal. He has a player option for the third year and he's going to. It sets himself up to make a kajillion dollars in 2028 and, and then LeBron's over there and he's texting or, or Instagramming out his workouts. And the whole thing is just bizarre to watch. LeBron James, who's been in control of every situation he's ever been in, basketball wise, who has always held, held the cards, and this is the first time ever where that's not the case. And now the Lakers. It's almost like watching somebody move in their younger, hotter girlfriend, but the ex wife is still living in the house, taking selfies of themselves. I'm riveted. I can't wait to see how this plays out from a media manipulation standpoint over the next two weeks. I have my fork, my knife and my plate, my napkins ready to go. And then last but not least, I'm taping this before the second part of SummerSlam, John Cena versus Cody Rhodes. So I think it's going up, but this podcast will go up probably as that's happening. But in part one, the WWE executed one of the great fake injury moves, I think maybe the greatest, where Seth Rollins got hurt a few weeks ago. He was supposed to, supposed to wrestle CM Punk for the, the second best title. The title that's not that title actually everyone cares about, but the other title, which people still care about, but not quite as much as the real title. So he, it looked like he hurt his knee. He sold it, they squashed the match. This was like three, four weeks ago. And then he, he painstakingly sold it in every aspect of what he was doing, that he hurt his leg even. I think he, he guest hosted the Rich Eisen show and even sold it. Like sold it there. Took some fake flight to go see Dr. James Andrews was on crutches and a huge brace everywhere he was to the point that everyone around WWE thought that he was actually hurt. And then CM Punk finally wins the second best title at SummerSlam. Good moment. And then Rollins comes out and you hear his music and like, oh, here you go. Because he has the money in the bank suitcase, which is one of the great gimmicks we've ever come up with the money in the bank, where you can immediately challenge somebody to the title. Comes out with the money in the bank suitcase, but he's got his braces on and his crutches, and it's like, well, what the hell is he going to do? Then he drops the crutches, takes the brace off, runs in the ring. CM Punk's exhausted, hits him over the suitcase a few times, and then. Then pins him and wins the title. And it was the best injury swerve I've ever seen in my life. And it made me think, I just wish this could happen in other sports where, you know, like, I. So I tweeted this and then people were like, this did happen with Paul Pierce in 2008 when you got hurt in the wheelchair. And I was like, all right. I didn't really even come back for that.

[Diana Rossini]

That.

[Bill Simmons]

But it would be funny, I guess teams do this with football injuries where they either hide how hurt somebody is or. But it would be great if somebody was just supposed to miss the game and then all of a sudden showed up like some playoff game. It's like, Josh Allen, he's out, he's been scratched. He's going to be the third quarterback. And then he just runs out 100% healthy and just fucks with the other team. I loved it. I love the Rollins thing. WWE is having a really, really strong comeback year from a storytelling standpoint, even though it was doing well for the whole decade. But I think this has been a really good year for them. I think that's it. Oh, the Cowboys doc, which comes out, I think, August 19th, which I was lucky enough to see seven episodes, and it's fantastic. And just get ready. I'll probably do something on the podcast about this, but really made me nostalgic for the days when we just had Madden and Summer Island Football and we didn't overthink a lot of this stuff. We didn't have the 247 Internet talk cycle, and you just kind of watched the games and teams won and lost and you thought you had a dynasty and then didn't, or somebody got hurt and you were just on the roller coaster ride. And we just kind of enjoyed it and we didn't overthink it. And it made me nostalgic for that. It also made me nostalgic to talk about the Dallas Cowboys and what a mess they are, which we're going to do in one second with Diana Rossini and take a break, throw it to Pearl Jam, and then NFL Talk next.

[Diana Rossini]

God will change on me.

[Bill Simmons]

Man, I'm taping this on a Sunday afternoon. It's a special day. Diana Rossini, who's never been on this podcast before, I think you've been on all the other podcasts, but just not this one. And we got you to turn your text off for an hour, which has anyone. Have you ever done that for anybody before?

[Diana Rossini]

Nope. Not even when I was in labor. So I do it for here.

[Bill Simmons]

You had the text on and labor.

[Diana Rossini]

Are you kidding? The doctor that was delivering my sons was my first one. Was asking me about the Steelers while I was pushing. I was like, dude, are you kidding right now? He later said he was doing it to keep me calm. He's like, I just know you like to talk football. So I figured if I just asked you about the team, that, you know, you would think about that and not the pain, because, like, the left side of my body wasn't taking it, wasn't taking the medication. So I wasn't numb. So I could feel a lot of it.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, no.

[Diana Rossini]

Um. So that was his way around it. But, I mean, I gave him great intel. I remember thinking that I was like, I mean, you're getting a lot right now from this delivery. I have a hard time believing that other mothers are giving you this information. But, yeah, so I'm psyched to be here. I turned off the text, so I figure if there's breaking news, someone will call.

[Bill Simmons]

That would have been the weirdest video football podcast anyone ever did. Pushing out a baby, talking to the doctor, answering Steelers questions. Tate, would you take breaks during that? Let's take a break, hear from a couple sponsors. I'm going to take more medication in my body.

[Diana Rossini]

Love to get that sponsored. That'd be smart. I'm sure the doctor would find a sponsor because they cost a lot of money. They don't, by the way.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know.

[Diana Rossini]

I mean, I know your kids are a lot older than mine, but I'm sure you remember when they were born, we could not believe how little our doctor did. The nurse that we had, she did the work. He came in, he was like, ah, yeah, push. Oh, yeah, it's a boy. You know? You know, is Ben coming out of retirement? You know, like.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, here's the thing. I think they're more there for something, for, like, the if something goes wrong aspect of it. When everything goes right, it's just basically like the guy coming in to kick the extra point, it's like, oh, that seemed easy, but then you just gotta make sure. Oh, my God. The penalty pushed us back to the 40 now. I actually need somebody to make this such.

[Diana Rossini]

Yeah. Then the panic sets in. I will say my first. I delivered Michael in 12 minutes, which was pretty cool.

[Bill Simmons]

12 minutes?

[Diana Rossini]

Yeah, 12 minutes. I also made it competitive because my sister in law did it in 10. So I just. The whole time I was looking at the clock like, I can't be the girl in the family.

[Bill Simmons]

How do you start the clock, though?

[Diana Rossini]

So when you start pushing, right, so you're 10 centimeters dilated. And they're like, okay, let's do this. We're going. You know, which by the way, the ladies out there that have been in labor for days, like, God bless you. You know, like, I was like, come on. Like, let's do this thing. It's unbelievable to think how women do this.

[Bill Simmons]

Listen, it was the single most impressive thing I've ever seen in my life and I was in awe of it the entire time and felt completely useless, which then continued for the first couple months of the actual child being out. We're just kind of there. Yeah, we're just kind of there. We're sitting picks, grabbing a couple rebounds. We're not doing anything. Nobody's calling plays for us.

[Diana Rossini]

That is true. I wound up having my second 13 months later and same doctor, same nurse. It was awesome. Like, hey, look who's back. How the Steelers doing? And I don't know. I don't know. We were probably about 18 minutes in and my doctor's like, hey, come on. He's like, my shift is actually ending in a half an hour. We got to do this. So shout out to Dr. Migliao.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow, you went two minute offense.

[Diana Rossini]

Yeah. I don't know what happened. We took a step back. It's like we had the super bowl hangover with Joey. We lost her step. I don't know, maybe I was tired because I gave birth to two babies in a span of a year, essentially. Sorry.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, now I have to tell you my labor story. Even though it wasn't me in labor. Our daughter Zoe, our oldest kid. So it was like on a Friday. And my wife thought she went into labor and we drove in. We're like, here we go. It's time. And wasn't happening. Was like, they're like, yeah, it's not. And she was like, it's so weird. Like, this baby's dying to come out. Go home. We have the whole weekend. And she's like, incapacitated. She's just like lying. So we watched an entire season of 24 and we eat spicy food. We do all the stuff you're supposed to do to grease the fetus up Sunday night, nothing. Monday morning, she's like, I'm feeling a little something now. I'm like, the boy who cried wolf. I'm like, all right, we have to go back. Is it happening or not? I don't know. Maybe we should just go back. So we go back, but I haven't had coffee yet, and I stopped and I'm like, can I stop at Starbucks quick? Because I need. Like, if we're in there for a while, like, she's like, all right, fine, go in. And I'm in there and there's. I don't know if I've ever told this story. There's an actress who used to be on 90210 in line ahead of me at the coffee who played Lucinda Nicholson, Brandon's girlfriend who was married in season four. And I'm just like, this is so weird. Like, there's a 902 and, okay, I can't wait to tell my wife. Get the coffee, come back in. I'm like, you're not going to believe 20 questions. Who's in there? And she's like, get to the hospital. Like, it's somehow in that five minutes, the baby, and all of a sudden she was really in labor. And now this story comes up all the time that I had to stop for coffee, that she was in labor. And it's like, it's twisted. Do you do this in your. In your relationship? Do you twist the stories where there's, like, truth in the story, but now. Now it's like seven levels beyond what actually happened in the story. Now it's like she was in labor, but I had to stop for coffee and she was in the front seat. Like, it's just been completely exaggerated. I like to defend myself.

[Diana Rossini]

Change the actress, too. But you're like, yeah, but, you know, it was. It was Jenny Garth.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Now it's Tori Spelling. As the years pass, it's Jenny Garth and Tori Spelling. I don't know.

[Diana Rossini]

Yeah, I would say if my husband was asked something he hates about me, that would be a top. A top three. It'd probably be the phone first. Second would be that I do do that to the stories. And some of it's just my memory. Right. Like, as, you know, like, I don't know what it is. Especially, you know, since the theme so far has been birth. Something happens after you deliver a child. It's like the baby comes out with your brain. It's like. It's like Gone like, oh, there's a boy and a half of my left lobe because I do it all the time where I'm like, I don't even remember that. The worst is if I, God forbid I run into someone that I know well and I'm like looking at them like, no idea who you are, You've like faced Alzheimer's. Yeah, it's horrible the fact that I'm even at that point, you know.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, you know, when we become, when it becomes like our moms, then it's like you just start merging two different stories that have no relation and they become some sort of super story. It's two different things that happen at a restaurant, but they were two different nights in two different years and they become a super, a super sized version of some story.

[Diana Rossini]

It is wild though how you, you can vividly remember the day, the morning, the night, whatever it is when, when your child's. Or children, if you're fortunate are born.

[Bill Simmons]

Every aspect of it, all of it.

[Diana Rossini]

Right. I remember the temperature, I remember the smell. I mean, my son's three, I'm two. It didn't happen. They're little. It's not like they're your kids. Ages. But yeah, they're great memories. Hopefully for people out there. It was definitely a highlight of my life, for sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I think you remember it because it's so completely terrifying the entire time at every aspect of it. You're doing something, a situation you've never been involved in before. There's this human life coming out, you're in charge of it. You have no idea what the kid's going to look like, if the kid's going to be healthy, if there's going to be some sort of terrible thing that like there's just all these variables and then when it actually happens. So I don't know how you wouldn't remember every aspect of that.

[Diana Rossini]

Yeah. And it's one of those things, I do think, because people have children every single day that you kind of just think it's common and it's like, yeah, yeah, they had a, it's a, it's a shock to the body for a million reasons. I don't know why I thought I had to be tough when I started to feel that I was contracting.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Diana Rossini]

But I FaceTimed my sister in my living room and I was on all four and she's like this really pleasant personality. She's a fourth grade teacher. She's just like sweet and she answers the phone and I was like. And you know, it's Like, a weird angle, right? Because I'm like, I'm on all four, right? She's like, die. I was like, hey, I don't know. I'm feeling pain. She's like, yeah, you're in labor. Go to the hospital now. I'm like, no, no, I'm good. I'm good. Because I think I didn't want to be embarrassed. You don't want to be the person that shows up so early, and then you're just, like, sitting there and your husband's like, oh, are you kidding? Like, I wanted to. I wanted to go. If I'm going to go to the hospital, which was down the street from my house, too. Like, we're going. So, yeah, the whole thing, it's definitely an experience and something I will never forget.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, the second time's almost more impressive than the first time, because, you know, the second time, what's in store the first time, you don't know. You're like, climbing some mountain you've never climbed. You have no idea what's happen. What's going to happen to you physically. The second time, you know what's going to happen, and you're still doing it. I think that's worse, right?

[Diana Rossini]

Correct. Absolutely. I remember thinking, I cannot believe I have to do this again. I mean, it's probably why I didn't have a third.

[Bill Simmons]

That's why we didn't have a third. My wife was like, I'm out not never doing this again.

[Diana Rossini]

Yeah, I know. Someone just said to me over the weekend, actually was like, hey, if I just put a baby in your hand right now, would you want a third? I'm like, absolutely. Even though, like, my house is a tornado at all times of the day with two working parents and, you know, I don't have a schedule. Right. When you're a reporter covering the NFL, you don't. You know, you're just. You just got to be on all the time. Yet I'm still like, if I just didn't have to carry that baby again and go through the trauma of pushing that baby out, like, game on. Let's do this thing. Um, and by the way, I was. I mean, not saying that this should make a difference, but, like, I was a Division 1 athlete, you know, like, it's not like I went in there overweight or. Or, you know, just the bomb that hasn't, like, worked out in 40 years. Like, like, I'm fairly fit. You know, I was like, this can't be that bad, But I guess 12 minutes isn't so Bad. I shouldn't probably be so hard.

[Bill Simmons]

12 minutes is. That's amazing. Yeah, I'm. Well, my kids are way older than yours. I'm at the point now where I wish I had appreciated all of it more. I wish we'd had more kids. My wife's always like, wow, well, we never would have had three. So it's not like you were carrying it. She's doing that whole thing and it's like, all right, I get it. But I wish we had a third one.

[Diana Rossini]

Come to the beach with us this next, this upcoming week and just spend two hours with a three and two year old. You'll be running back to your kids, kissing them, hugging them, having a cocktail with them like, I love you.

[Bill Simmons]

I know. I do feel that sometimes on an airplane when you see that vacant terrified look on the parents faces. Cause they're flying with their little kids and they just kind of. It's almost like they, they're, they just have dark eyes. They're just like dead inside because they're like, this is going to be five hours. Everyone on the plane's going to hate me. My one kid here is already melting down. Just shoot me in the head. And I know that look because I had it many times.

[Diana Rossini]

Tight butt season is what we call that. Like your butt just tight the whole time because you're just. You don't even know what it's going to be, but you know what it's going to be and you're embarrassed and it's just all, yeah, you're hoping for.

[Bill Simmons]

The miracle that nothing happens in the plan but you know something's going to happen.

[Diana Rossini]

The thing that I've been experiencing is if I see a football fan, like someone that wants to talk football when we're traveling and now I'm horrified because I just talked to this person. They either follow or they've read stuff or they've seen me on tv and that's cool. But now they're gonna probably judge me as a mom. And Mikey and Joey are lunatics like you would think. They drink coffee as kids. So then I get just even more tense. Cause it's just, you know, it's the whole, the whole mix of it is really stressful. So that's why I don't know if you're like this when you travel. But when I'm traveling without them and I see moms, like, I just, I try not to look. The kids are crying. I try to help. Whatever I can do, just send the vibe like, dude, you got this.

[Bill Simmons]

You got this we traveled. My buddy Joe House got married, I think in 08. So my daughter was not even. Now she's three and a half. My son was maybe one and on the way back he got married in Martha's Vineyard in the Martha's Vineyard Airport. And my daughter pulled the fire alarm and it was just. And then started crying and it was loud. And then my other son started crying because it was loud. But she was crying because she thought she was going to jail. And I was like, this has to be it. This has to be a 10 out of 10 for worst travel experience. We hadn't even flown anywhere yet and we had already started a Cape Cod incident. Hey, speaking of panic, how about that transition? We're going to play a game called For Real. I'm going to give you different storylines and then at the end you're going to give me two. But I want to start with pan. I didn't put this in the docket for you, but there was a clip today of Caleb Williams looking just terrible. So my first for real is Caleb Williams, panic time. Is this for real? Are you buying this yet? Give me your take.

[Diana Rossini]

I'm going to say not real for now. I think first of all, it's early, okay. This is his third play caller that we've seen him have, right? If you count the interim situation there that we saw with Thomas Brown when he took over. And look, this is a player that thrived so much, right, on those freelance kind of off script plays at usc. We saw it. That's, that's probably why he went number one overall. So I just think now the challenge is going to be can he conform, right? Can he adjust to that detailed structure of the plays, the timing, the quick decisions, the things that we saw Ben Johnson do so well with Jared Goff, right? Which is, I think you've seen too, like a lot of stories now being said, like the Chicago Bears offense is not going to be the Detroit Lions one. I think the Chicago Bears coaching staff is purposely saying that because I don't think they're going to be equipped just yet to look like that. I think the idea is there, it's just going to take a little bit more time. So I don't think it's time to panic. I just think Chicago Bears fans are just going to need a little bit more patience because the details that Ben Johnson needs to, the details that he needs Caleb Williams to pay attention to and be good at, I just think it may take a little bit more time. Whereas we're going to Constantly compare them to Jaden and Drake, even.

[Bill Simmons]

What's a little bit more time? Is that two months or is that two years? I guess that's the question for me.

[Diana Rossini]

I think two months. I think, look, the guy is probably guzzling this coaching in terms of taking in so much, right? We got to give him a chance to understand it, compute it.

[Bill Simmons]

This is too rational of an answer. I mean, I admire it.

[Diana Rossini]

I don't know if you wanted me to come on and be like, oh.

[Bill Simmons]

By the way, he should be panicked.

[Diana Rossini]

Because he ain't the brightest guy.

[Bill Simmons]

Let me tell you, you're pulling me back. You're pulling me back to reality.

[Diana Rossini]

Like, chill out. Chill.

[Bill Simmons]

All the Bears fans I know are losing their minds right now. Like, all of them. And it wasn't just, like, the training camp. It was the stuff from the Wickersham book. And there's just some. Some kernels of, like, you know, Jared Goff. You're basically accentuated in the strengths he has. You're making him, like this somewhat of a system quarterback, right? Caleb's like, as you said, like this freelancer, really exciting. He's almost like an NBA player. You just, like, kind of clear out and he goes one on one with everybody. So how does that fit in a Ben Johnson offense? I don't know. I've. I have some questions. I like them as a possible playoff team this year, though. Now I'm nervous.

[Diana Rossini]

Well, I think it's because Bears fans are going like, he. His physical talent is unique, but can he play quarterback? I think that's. And that's what's scaring them, right? It's like, okay, we get it, we see it, but can you do that? And then can you execute with a really good play call or head coach? Can you. Can this marriage work?

[Bill Simmons]

Can you be consistent? Can you inspire the teammates that you have? Do you pass the car keys test? The Trent Dilfer test? Would your teammates toss you the car keys because they want you to drive them?

[Diana Rossini]

Here's the thing. It's all corny as hell.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Diana Rossini]

But I just sat with Bo Nix in Denver, and we were talking about how I was sitting with him exactly the same time last year he was a rookie and he's just got this swag to him now, and he physically looks bigger, too. But I was like, okay, so tell me now the truth. Like, when we were talking, remember? I was like, what's Shawn like? What's this playbook like, how overwhelmed are you? And you kind of like, acted as if you had it all under Control, like, did you. He's like, no, not at all. I was so uncomfortable. He's like, I didn't understand any of it. I memorized it all because I didn't comprehend the why behind it all. I didn't get why we were doing the plays. I didn't understand the importance of the time between when Sean was giving me the play and snapping the ball. You know, it was all of these small parts of playing the quarterback position that was moving so damn fast that's now slowed down in year two. And so it's all these small details that make up a great quarterback. And for Caleb Williams, we have to give him an opportunity here to learn Ben Johnson, because as we know, and as Seth Wickersham's piece revealed so well, and even some of the reporting at the Athletic, that he wasn't getting that.

[Bill Simmons]

Kind of coaching right.

[Diana Rossini]

So now he's got what I think is a great coach. And I say think because I just. I'm going to go based off what we saw in Jared Goff, because Jared Goff will be the first to say, and I think he did say it, that Ben Johnson's a big reason for his success. Let's see if he can apply it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it's a weird one because. And you. You said you played. What sport did you play in college, by the way?

[Diana Rossini]

Soccer.

[Bill Simmons]

What position were you?

[Diana Rossini]

I was at George Mason University.

[Bill Simmons]

What position were you? Let me guess. Left back.

[Diana Rossini]

Everyone guesses that. Why?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know. Speed, tough. What is. What was it?

[Diana Rossini]

I was a striker.

[Bill Simmons]

You were a striker? Oh, my daughter's a striker, But I was. When you were saying about Caleb, I saw this with both of my kids when they played sports, but especially my daughter, because you go up these little levels and every year they're like, it's fine, fine. I got it. And then a year later, like, remember last year when I thought I had it and I didn't have these nine different things? It is true. It's like, no, no, I'm in great shape. Oh, actually, I'm not in that. As great shape as I thought I was this year. I'm actually in really good shape. So I wonder with Caleb, is this going to be as. No, no, I'm fine. I got it. And then, you know, it's like, oh, I didn't totally get it. Now I like your Bo Nicks example, which brings me to the Broncos, by the way.

[Diana Rossini]

Oh, let's go.

[Bill Simmons]

So this is. This is, I think, the team I'm adopting as. I don't Know, I'm not picking them to win the super bowl, but I think every year a team takes the leap from either borderline playoff team or lower level playoff team to an actual full fledged contender. Right? And I think this is going to be the team. I think some people are sniffing it out. It's weird, the gambling odds. Like, some of the stuff on FanDuel hasn't really moved that much. But in general, I think a lot of people who are studying this stuff, when you look at their schedule, when you look at the free agents, they added the defense, some of the, some of the guys they hit oil on last year. Year three is Sean Payton, Bo Nixon, his second year, they improve the skill positions. And it seems like the people that go to their training camp are coming away going, there's something going on with this team. So ironically, you were at the training camp, so what did you see?

[Diana Rossini]

Something's going on with this team. Okay, so just backstory real quick. I'm started espn. I'm an NFL reporter. I'm lost, though. Like, I'm, I'm. I'm swimming with the Sharks and I'm out here in the field and I. I don't know what I'm doing. And at the time they gave me the Saints, that was like the team they wanted me to focus on. So I'm around Dr. Brees, Mark Ingram, Alvin Camara, and Sean Payton. And this, this is the year they, they were good. Well, they were good a few years, but this is where they really had a breakout season. And so because I was around them, I got to know Sean Payton really well. And so I used to ask him all these questions. But when I tell you I asked them questions, I'm talking basic stuff that you don't ask a future hall of Fame coach. You know, texting, like, hey, why did your corner do this on this situation? Like, he's like, so eventually he's like, I don't have any time for you. Like, you're a lovely person. I can tell you're trying hard, but you need to go meet other people to talk to you about football, because I'm running a team.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Diana Rossini]

So I was like, well, I don't really know that many people. He's like, well, there's this guy called, I don't know, Bill Parcells. Call him. So I cold call Bill Parcells. And he hangs up on me. He's like, oh, this is Bill. I'm like, hi, Bill, My name is Diane Rossini from espn. I'm an NFL reporter. Click. Like, this Guy sucks. Like, everyone says, he's so great. Like, I don't think he's that great. My boss calls me from espn. He says, are you. Did you call Bill Parcells? I'm like, yeah. He's like, why? What do you want? I said, well, I need a mentor. I need someone to help me with football. I need to get better at this if I want to be great. He's like, I don't know. Die. Like, I don't think Bill Parcells has time to do this with you. You. I said, can you just tell him my intention? So my boss calls him back and says, all right, look, this girl wants to do this. And at the end, he goes, you know, she's a Jersey girl. He goes, why didn't you tell me she was a Jersey girl? Calls me back. He goes, diana, why didn't you lead with that? You're an Italian girl from Jersey. What are you doing this weekend? I said, oh, I don't know. He said, come up to Saratoga. You like horses? Like, oh, my gosh. So I drive up, I spend, I don't know, eight hours with this man. And that's where I learned about who Sean Payton is through Bill Parcells, truly. So I take all that because by understanding Bill and learning football through that lens, I've been able to understand Sean Payton. And so because of that, I've been so grateful to Sean for saying, hey, go call Bill Parcels. So I.

[Bill Simmons]

So when you say you understand him, though, you're so. You understand both what he's trying to do with building a team, but also if he likes the team.

[Diana Rossini]

It's. I just. You understand why he does the things he does and how he operates, and when he's in love and he's in love with this team right now. Like, even the summer coach, like, reached out to me a few times, checking in, and I missed the call, which, you know, how do you miss a head coach calling you? But it happens. And he just left me a voicemail. I gotta see if I still have it. This is what he said. Ready? So I don't have a message, just, like, a beep. And it's just, Sean Payton. Go, I love my queue. And he hangs up. Just, I love my quarter. Like, who does that? So when I saw him, we caught up, I was like, what's going on? He's like, d, I love this team. I just. I love this. We see. We see Greenlaw. We see him out here like, we're in pads today. You're going to love what he sees. This front five. And, and look, he. He can, he can sell the best of them. But he was right. When I watched it and, you know, I got an opportunity to sit with Patrick Sartan, obviously defensive player of the year. And you know how we always ask quarterbacks, like to list your. You know, we asked the other quarterbacks in the league to list the top five quarterbacks. You know, we just do the rankings all the time. I was like, oh, let's just ask. We should ask Patrick, like, what. Who the top five quarterbacks are. So he does what we all do, that he named the ones that we all think of. I'll say it just for entertainment value of, you know, Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, Lamar. Lamar. Who are we missing there?

[Bill Simmons]

The fifth one. The fifth one gets exciting because you could make a Daniels case.

[Diana Rossini]

He threw Herbert in there. Actually, he threw Herbert in there.

[Bill Simmons]

Herbert, wow. He loves 500 quarterbacks.

[Diana Rossini]

I know we could. I was so. Then I threw in Jalen Hurts, which I got no response. Which again, in the moment, I wish I was like, why didn't you say anything? But he didn't say anything. And he goes, the one that's right in there, I'm telling you, is bo necks. Wow. What.

[Bill Simmons]

So going against them every day in practice. I just read a story about that, about how they make each other better with testing each other.

[Diana Rossini]

Yeah. And look, Bo was great. We talked to him too, or we had an opportunity to interview him. And he was just talking about all the post snap stuff, the understanding of it all, how much he studied Sean's playbook this year and the comfort level he has, how quick he's moving now through. It just, it's really a language and understanding it. The other thing too, that was really interesting from his perspective. He hasn't had the same. So obviously he played college for five years. And I know we joke that he's like 52 years old, but he's only had the same play caller two, two years in a row, one other time. And that was when he was a junior in high school.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow.

[Diana Rossini]

So think about how many years of football he's been playing and he's never had the same play caller two years in a row. So he's kind of talking like this young kid of like, you see. Yeah, it's great to have Sean Payton in my ear again this year because I'm not used to having that. So I think that that that's a good component.

[Bill Simmons]

He almost like had an AAU experience where he's just bouncing around on different teams. I can't decide how good he is because I thought I really like some of the stuff he did last year. I definitely thought it wasn't crazy that he was the quarterback of a playoff team, but he also had a couple moments where you're like ugh, yeah but, but he also didn't have very many skill guys. He had Sutton and that was basically it.

[Diana Rossini]

If Jaden Daniels doesn't take this team to the NFC championship, you can make an argument Bonix his rookie of the year, right? Like he threw four more touchdowns than Jaden. He threw for more yards, he took less sacks which that's like a big Sean Payton thing which is why he didn't like Russell Wilson.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Diana Rossini]

He hates, hates quarterbacks who take sacks. I mean you want to piss him off, talk about that, right? So you know, healthy offensive line this year, loving Greenlaw, you Fanga. I mean this. I think they're the best defense in football. I mean look, I get it and people listening like this chick from Colorado. I'm not. It's just they have something there. You go to these camps and you just feel it, you know it and it's a, it's the it, it's the Sean Payton programming and they're buying in and that's half the battle.

[Bill Simmons]

I was, I always do these player ranking things before every year and I was shocked by how high Denver was where I do like blue chippers, red chippers, pink chippers and assign different points And I had seven guys on their defense that got at least one point out of the 11 starters. And then the coaching is a top four or five coaching staff. Right. But then they have one of the best four offensive lines and the big thing last year was their, their skill position. Guys, you know, we're, we're pretty weak except for some which they tried to beef up. I've been reading all the RJ Harvey stuff trying to figure out he's 24 year old rookie, could he give them some juice. He had some big run yesterday that they were all excited about. But I just didn't think that running backs were very good last year which is really the easiest thing to improve in the NFL. There's a million like decent running backs. So I also. The schedule thing is in their favor too because I think they go AFC South, NFC east. It is and they have the third place schedule. So I just. There's a lot of signs pointed to them and they're over under is still nine and a half wins which I think is crazy. I'd I'd be like. I'd be genuinely shocked that they didn't win 10 games.

[Diana Rossini]

Oh, same here. That would be a disappointing year.

[Bill Simmons]

It means somebody got hurt. It would be like Bo Nicks got hurt and they played a back backup quarterback for half the year.

[Diana Rossini]

Oh, Jared Stidham. That's what's. Yep. Look, Stidham's the type of quarterback you want because when he's on your team, your quarterback stays healthy. He's been like, good luck. But I asked Sean about the whole weapon situation, because I remember during free agency trying to figure out who they were going to go after, because I was like, they're going to want to get this kid somebody. And he's like, my weapon is our run game. Now I'm like, all right. So that's how he's signed Evan Ingram.

[Bill Simmons]

So hopefully he can catch some balls for them. But I like the way they look like if you go roster versus roster with them and kc, they're right there. Talent. Talent wise, it's just KC is the infrastructure.

[Diana Rossini]

And they're talking super bowl there, by.

[Bill Simmons]

The way, not against it. Little dirty secret for you. I was on a Runway in Chicago coming home from the sports collectors convention, and we didn't. We just kind of stalled for 15 minutes. I went on FanDuel and I started. I. Because I was going to hold off. I was going to wait until end of August to make some NFL futures. I was like, I can't hold off on the Broncos anymore. I'm getting some of these in. I'm getting some Broncos bets in, and I'm shorting Miami in a couple of different ways. Were the two things I did.

[Diana Rossini]

Well, I am. Maybe this is kind of ironic because I feel like Parcells is the one who kind of always was in my head when I was just when I was younger, learning how to cover this game of, you know, the teams that are. The ones that are loud, screaming that stuff, are usually the crappy ones.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Diana Rossini]

But I've now seen it two years in a row where I've had teams be really vocal about it. Like Andy Reid last year, he said to me, he said, we're going for three. I'm like, first of all, Travis Kelsey said that to me after they won. The second, when we were running off the field, like, you know, when the reporters, like, run after them to ask them questions, I was doing that, whatever boring question I asked, like, how you feel? You know, whatever. He's like, going for three. I'm like, three what? I'm like, oh, Three in a row. What? You just won, like, chill. But Andy was like, I. I love them talking about that. Like, I want them. Obviously, they, they lost, but, you know, so you got them doing it. You got Denver doing it out. They got, they've. They've got some swag. They're definitely headed into this season confident. So I get why you like the Broncos.

[Bill Simmons]

You have them over the Chargers.

[Diana Rossini]

Yes.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I think so, too. Let's take a break and then we'll do a couple more for reals. This episode is brought to you by Yahoo. Fantasy. Yahoo Fantasy is the best place to play fantasy football this season. Starting August 4th, Yahoo. Fantasy dropping 28 big new features over 28 days, giving you more ways to play, draft and win. Stay tuned and get started by creating or joining a Yahoo. Fantasy football league [e-mail] Simmons. That's me. All right. Third. Is this real? Is the Micah Parsons hold out? Whatever the hell we're doing for real, it's certainly got a lot of news and we don't have to hash over all the things. I want to give you my theory. So there's this Cowboys documentary coming out on Netflix, and it's actually really good, and I think it's going to be a big deal. And it's about the Jerry Jones 90s Cowboys and the celebration of this really meaningful team that I think everybody remembers. And you have guys like Aikman and Irvin and Emmett, who even after. And Deion, after they played for the Cowboys, they've. They've still stayed really relevant, as has Jerry. Part of me wonders, does he just do this sometimes with these holdouts just to get people talking about the Cowboys all month when he knows this is how this is going to end? They're not trading Michael Parsons. Nobody's doing that. That would be. That'd be the app. Like if the Patriots offer them Keon way and two first round picks and a third for Micah Parsons. Like, whoa, that's a lot. You're not doing it. You're keeping. He's one of the most seven most important guys in the league. You're not trading him. Especially in the salary cap era where you could just push this money into this interminable amount of years and then, you know, it doesn't actually hate you. It's not like the NBA. Um, I am convinced that he does this shit sometimes. Just so like, first take will lead with the Cowboys and people write the stories. I don't believe this for a second. Do you think this is real?

[Diana Rossini]

I don't think it's real that Micah Parsons is going to get traded, but I do think the beef is real, really. I think sometimes in negotiations, everyone's like, all right, you're doing what you need to do to get your money. I get it. Or you're doing what you need to do to protect the team. I get it, wink, wink, wink. But we're all going to be together. La. This feels personal. This, this has, this feels like it's Jerry versus Micah. This isn't the Dallas Cowboys front office or the Dallas Cowboys in general versus Micah. Yeah, it, it, it feels. And I think a lot of it has to do with what Jerry's been saying publicly. He's gone a little overboard on this stuff. And, and I don't ever really get crazy about negotiations and how people are talking about stuff because I know how it goes by now. But this with the, you know, not knowing who Micah's agent is, from leaving his name out to not contacting him this whole time to talking about his injuries. So it just, it doesn't feel great. And the other day, so the story broke Friday. So I guess it was Thursday. Thursday morning, somebody tipped me off on. It was like Michael Parsons has in his drafts, a note that basically says, I don't want to be a Dallas Cowboy anymore. And his agent's aware of it, and they're basically just waiting to pull the trigger. Because you don't ask for a trade out of Dallas. Nobody's. Nobody does that. Right. You. We've seen in Washington, we've seen it in almost every organization. Most want to be a Dallas Cowboy because of all the benefits of playing for, you know, America's team.

[Bill Simmons]

So what are those benefits? Just out of curiosity? They haven't won the super bowl in literally three decades now. And I would say they've been one of the least successful NFL franchises that, you know, you have your Browns level, they're obviously not there, but it's not like they've been rolling in success. These last, I don't know, Michael Parson's entire life, the Cowboys have never been good, like, in the. In a Super bowl contender way.

[Diana Rossini]

It feels like it, though, when you're around them, when you're there, they don't.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like an optical illusion.

[Diana Rossini]

They're not ugly looking. They're not. They don't ugly uniforms. They don't have an ugly stadium. They get so much attention. They're treated. They're treated like they're premier, but they're not. And maybe some of them like living in the limelight of that. Of the celebrity of being a Dallas Cowboy versus, you know, actually being able to win it.

[Bill Simmons]

Isn't it better to be in the limelight of winning, though, if you're Micah Parsons?

[Diana Rossini]

Maybe the hope is that they. Maybe what it is, they believe that they can do that. Right. I mean, because this is a team that's built on star power based on deals never worked.

[Bill Simmons]

It's. They're the Kardashians. It's like all. All sizzle and no steak. Although the Kardashians are very successful. But you kind of look at it and you go, what's. What are the talents here? And the Cowboys, same thing. It's like, what are the talents here? What is the Jerry Jones like? As soon as they got rid of Jimmy Johnson. And by the way, I totally forgot about the Emmett Smith contract holdout where he actually missed games. Because now as you get older, you start, some of this stuff falls through the cracks in your brain. But he went to the precipice with Emmett Smith and it was not going to be resolved until the replacement guy kind of stunk in the first two games and the Cowboys fan base went nuts. I wonder if he'd be willing to do that again to actually go into the season not paying him to see what happens.

[Diana Rossini]

He had to go so hard. I'm curious to see if there's any self reflection from him of maybe I didn't do this. Right. Right. Because even just talking to people over the last few days about it, of like, what do you think? You know, most will tell you, well, Jerry's done these deals before with players. It's. He's notorious for these. Whether it's. I guess Tony Rom was the famous one where he tries to do these.

[Bill Simmons]

Deals with players, bypass all the people around them.

[Diana Rossini]

Yeah. Whereas it's like, first of all, it's illegal. You need to have an agent do those contracts. I think Kraft. Right. With Brady's maybe the only other owner I know of that kind of did that, where they have a conversation and then, you know, they kind of agree to it and then the agent comes in and does the paperwork, I guess.

[Bill Simmons]

Listen, all Patriot fans have agreed for the rest of our lives never to talk about whatever private under the table stuff Kraft and Brady had as just like, we don't talk about it.

[Diana Rossini]

We don't care.

[Bill Simmons]

No, we don't talk. Because I never felt like the salary number was 100%, all the money that was going to Brady. But we looked the other way.

[Diana Rossini]

No way.

[Bill Simmons]

We looked the other way. You know, all the stuff these guys can do, like use the plane whenever you want. There's like a million different. I know which workarounds here. Invest in this thing we're investing in. You should do this. It's going to make this, like.

[Diana Rossini]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

A lot of stuff you can do.

[Diana Rossini]

I just had a conversation with an owner over the off season about that. Of things that they lay out for their players. This specific organization, in terms of investment, things that they have set up for relationships that the owner and the organization have with these investment groups. Yeah. That help the players make money. It's like, it's the best way to help your team with the salary cap by taking less money and then still be able to make all the money that you probably could get on the open market.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think Jerry Jones is doing that with Michael Parsons.

[Diana Rossini]

I don't think he's doing that with Michael Parsons. I think he's sitting Michael Parsons down for a day and a half and talking to him. What he thinks is just a conversation. You know, Micah's perspective, as we know, he thought it was a conversation. Jerry thought that was a deal. And look, I think the Cowboys perspective on it, at least Jerry Jones perspective on it is like, look, I've done this with other players. I asked Dak to do it with me, and Dak said no. Talk to Todd France, my agent.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Diana Rossini]

And that's what. That's how they did it. And Micah never spoke up. Micah never said that. And I think that's how Jerry sees it. Whereas, Obviously, Michael Parsons, mid-20s.

[Bill Simmons]

How does he know how to do a deal with the owner who's made a kajillion deals? Like, that's ridiculous.

[Diana Rossini]

It's. It's shady, and it's shady. That's why I think this is. The original question was, is this real? I'm with you. I don't think they're trading him. I have spoken to teams, have already reached out to Dallas, and so even, like, they're having a conversation.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. They're just getting hung up on.

[Diana Rossini]

You're just like, whatever. Like, we talk about other players.

[Bill Simmons]

Is three first crazy for you?

[Diana Rossini]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

Just out of curiosity, because I, you know, I'm in. I have the NBA DNA where people get traded all the time. The picks and the trades have gotten crazier and crazier and crazier. We don't really see it ever with the NFL. Like, we'll have, like, the occasional Khalil Mack trade, but for the most part, teams just don't do it that way. And if you have one of these guys, the way the cap works, where you can just keep pushing that money way down the road and almost like this dinner bill that you just get to keep putting on credit, you never have to pay. Like, the Parsons thing to me is easy. Just pay him.

[Diana Rossini]

Who's the team that trades for Micah Parsons? And cousin Sal just, like, jumps off a bridge.

[Bill Simmons]

The best for the podcast for me and Sal is the Patriots. That would be the absolute funniest outcome of all of this. And then he was just awesome on the Patriots, and we went like 12 and five, but I was wearing a Parsons jersey for every five. That's just for content. That would be the most fun for me. That's a good one. First of all, like, there were teams mentioned when people make up the fake trades, like, guess what? They're not trading them to Washington or Philadelphia or the Giants. Like that. Like, just cross those teams off. They're not trading with those teams. And they would probably trade in the AFC if they're trading him, but they're not trading them. So it's a moot point.

[Diana Rossini]

How funny it'd be if it was just like a lame team, you know, like the Titans with the Jags.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like the Jackson have anything left. All right, so we agree. I still feel like Jerry milks this stuff because he. I think he likes when people are discussing the Cowboys. What's interesting is I actually kind of thought I had them right in the six to eight seed range in the nfc. Like, they do have talent. Dax back. It wouldn't surprise me if they, with their schedule, if they went like 10 and 7. But if they don't figure the Parsons thing out, they're not going to.

[Diana Rossini]

Yeah, I'm interested to see. Here's the other thing, too. Because Micah is repped by such a powerful agent, it's the same agent that repped desean Watson that I wonder if the philosophy there is, like, once you ask for a trade like this is we want out. Whereas we're seeing in Washington with Terry McLaurin. Yeah, I don't think Terry wants to leave Washington.

[Bill Simmons]

No, they're not trading. They're trying to win the Super Bowl. What are they going to get for him?

[Diana Rossini]

Happiest guy. Yeah, Terry's the best, right? Like, he's just, like, walking around talking his quarterback's mom just like, hey, everybody, I just want. I just want to make 31, 32. Come on, please. I know I'm going to be 30 next week. But just pay me.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, the Trey Hendrickson thing is interesting because he seems like he wants to stay. He's kind of TMI some of the information. He's long dissertations about his worth and his feelings about the Bengals. But I mean, talk about a cheap franchise. And he's the only, you know, the only really good defensive player they have. So I assume he will come back. Parsons, though, who knows? If Parsons was like, I'm not coming back, it's.

[Diana Rossini]

Do you have the stomach for it? I think that's what it is. It's uncomfortable. It's weird. It's these guys. Most good players are taught that it's about the team, despite the fact that it is a business. They're coming from the culture of. It's about the, the, the good things in sport. And I do think Trey Hendrickson, who, you know, I, I, I talked to him, I've been in touch with him a lot during this. And you're right. Like, he spends a lot of time making sure, you know, and the public knows that his intentions here are to just get the money he's worth that.

[Bill Simmons]

His family, his feelings seem hurt.

[Diana Rossini]

Oh, well, wouldn't it yours?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, if. Well, especially when Max Crosby gets taken care of.

[Diana Rossini]

Didn't own your company and the owner of your company was paying everybody else who was a star on the other side of the ball but didn't want to pay you and give you the guarantees that you wanted. And it's not like he's asking for anything so outlandish because I've done kind of some of the back work on that, just like asking other teams, like, would you give Trey two years guaranteed? Everyone's like, yes. Like, it's, it's, it's not that hard to do. But Cincinnati is just one of those teams that don't operate like that, don't operate like Philly, they don't operate like Houston, they don't operate like la. They don't get ahead.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. Well, that leads to the next. For real. Is Cleveland the worst 20, 25 team? For real. And I bring them up because it's, it's a little bit dysfunctional along the lines of the Bengals. The Bengals have more talent, but same kind of like you are who you are behind the scenes and in the NFL. That always comes back to bite you. I look at Cleveland, the quarterback thing's already a mess. The Watson thing is one of the biggest cap cripplers we've had in a long, long time. And I don't see a scenario where they win like four games and they like to me, if you were saying who's going to have the worst record in the league, which is always a fun one to bet on when people put those odds up, I would go either Cleveland or New Orleans, I think are just the most obvious. Two, they seem to be New Orleans at least. Like there's some good buzz about, oh that they have some good young players and the new coaching staffs in place and maybe they'll be like a little bit frisky. I don't see it at all with Cleveland.

[Diana Rossini]

Joe Flacco's not doing it for you.

[Bill Simmons]

No, no, he's not. I thought he was terrible last year.

[Diana Rossini]

Yeah, he wasn't terrible when he was with Stefanski the last time.

[Bill Simmons]

That was two years ago.

[Diana Rossini]

I mean they went to the playoffs.

[Bill Simmons]

In 23, so he's in his 40s now. I, in general, I'm, I'm blind out on all 40s quarterbacks and I think Brady messed up everybody's brains. I've talked about this before. Brady was an anomaly in their 40s.

[Diana Rossini]

I woke up with a stiff neck the other day. I'm like, what is happening to me? And I googled it and I have meningitis and I'm going to be dead in 15 hours. Like I was like, what? What is happening? But yeah, which I do that all the time. Which is such an obnoxious thing to do. Like as a.

[Bill Simmons]

You self diagnose on Google. Yeah, I do that.

[Diana Rossini]

But also I try to like think of myself as the player, you know, at my age, if the players close at my age and I'll just be.

[Bill Simmons]

Like your 40s, you have to. Because you watch, you watch stuff start to go by the wayside every year it's like, oh, I can't see as well anymore what happened.

[Diana Rossini]

I do it with my parents, right. Like my dad's 72 and like I'll see like Belichick for example. And I'm like, my dad, yeah, just watches Judge Judy all day. Like there's no way any 21 year old or 22 year whatever is even looking his way. Nor would he even know what to say to her. He would be like, can we take a nap? You know, three times a day. So I, it's like I can't help myself, but I do it all the time. So to your point with Joe Flacco.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, yeah, like it's same for Rogers. It's like that's why I'm not going to get excited about Rogers. Like these guys are in their 40s. It's not realistic.

[Diana Rossini]

Outlier. It's. He's an outlier. He doesn't eat strawberries, for God's sakes. You know, like, he is special, committed, you know, you know, the whole thing. So, yeah, I have concerns. Look, a lot of it. I was around the Browns a lot last year during training camp, and I just. Look, desean was there at the time was different. He's there now. But we know that's the situation there. Look, I like the idea that they've been consistent with keeping Stefanski there and Andrew Berry. I do think they're a good tandem together. But there's just this juice missing in Cleveland. You know how I just was talking about Denver, right? And I was like, God, these guys are just like drinking the Kool Aid and they're all in on their identity and who they are and the culture and what they're trying to accomplish and the details. And they got studs and all sides. Like, I don't. I don't. I never felt that in Cleveland. I haven't been there yet. I can't. But just seeing what I'm seeing and reading what I'm saying, like, I. I'm not. Mary Kay Cabot right now seems to be the biggest star out of Cleveland with her comments at the hall of Fame celebration.

[Bill Simmons]

What did Mary Kay Cabot say?

[Diana Rossini]

What?

[Bill Simmons]

I somehow missed this. It's the weekend, Bill.

[Diana Rossini]

This was so good.

[Bill Simmons]

What was this?

[Diana Rossini]

Not that I'm expecting you to, like, follow all Mary Kay, but Mary Kay is obviously exceptional. She's been around forever, covers the Cleveland Browns. So she was inducted in the hall of Fame, Sportswriter hall of Fame. So she goes up there and she talked about the start of her career and her delivery was fantastic. So she's up there and she says, you know, Bill Belichick calls me up once and he's given me a hard time. And I said, bill, you know, I hope. I hope you talk to the men the same way you talk to me. Essentially, like, treat me just the way you treat the men. And I hope you say the shit you say to me. You say to the men. She goes. And then, you know, years passed and I was a young 28 year old reporter, and I realize now Bill Belichick just couldn't relate to a 28 year old because I was too old.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, no. She said that in the speech?

[Diana Rossini]

Yes. And I've known Mary Kay forever. Like, Mary Kay's spicy and she's great at her job, but she's not like that, like, she doesn't.

[Bill Simmons]

Bella chick taking strays. That's pretty good.

[Diana Rossini]

It was funny.

[Bill Simmons]

I think the New York and punchline, it was.

[Diana Rossini]

It was fantastic. And I was. Here's the thing. Somebody sent the clip. And you know how all of our attention is so limited. Like, I can. I can only watch, like, five seconds of a clip.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Diana Rossini]

And so the person that tweeted it, like, made it like, this clip is gonna wow you. And I thought the funny part was just that, like, she was tough with Bill.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Diana Rossini]

You know, I was like, good for Mary Kay. And I was thinking that, you know, way to go. And then I was, whoa. Go mkc.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I think part of the problem with the lack of belief with the Browns, this is, like, the eighth time they've pivoted since Haslam bought the team, I think, in 2012. So now it's like, hey, we have our shit together. Finally, the Watson thing, he's taken a lot of accountability for the Watson. What a disaster that was.

[Diana Rossini]

But that shocked me when he said that. I was at the owner's meeting when he said that. I was like, whoa. That was interesting.

[Bill Simmons]

He's done it, though. I was reading up on him, and he's done it a few times when he's fired people like GMs or coaches, and he'll just publicly say, like, he does the Aaron Boone thing. He's like, we got to get this right. It's all ahead of us. We got. We got. Everything's in front of us. We just got to keep moving. We've made some mistakes, but it's just really bad at owning a team. And they're just clearly the most dysfunctional of all the NFL teams now and have been for a while.

[Diana Rossini]

That's the hard part. It's when the owners are that involved. You're like, you're part of this operation all the time, and it's still bad.

[Bill Simmons]

It's very similar to what's happening with the Phoenix Suns with Matt Ishbia, where just changing to pivot. Another splashy thing. Oh, I changed again. Oh, it was this guy's fault. Hey, I'm learning. And the problem is Haslam is now in, like, year 14, owning the Browns, and it doesn't seem like there's light at the end of the tunnel. At least with David Tepper, who had made a lot of the same mistakes, at least that's been quiet for a year. I don't know if he's a good owner or not, but he's at least.

[Diana Rossini]

Been very conscious of what it's looked like. I don't.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Diana Rossini]

These people don't cheat change. Bill. You think Woody Johnson is now going, since I let my sons run it all, I'm not going to do that anymore. Like, no, you can't. They can't help who they are.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Diana Rossini]

And look. And I think there's some instances where an ownership having some say in things is okay. I actually just talked to Greg Penner, the owner of the Broncos, on the sideline the other day about that was the exact question I asked him. I said, how do you know when to step in? Like, how. How involved are you on the day to day? How do you know to go, I need to say something here.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Diana Rossini]

You know, and. And he even. He's like, it's not easy because you got to let your football people do it. But if you disagree with something that. And you're watching this. Or. Or let's say you're an owner like Josh Harris. Right. Like, who's got experience with bad deals.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Diana Rossini]

You know, it's got to be hard for him to go, all right, I'm just going to let Adam Peters do this. There's no way, of course, he's going to influence it. Especially if they've been down that road before and they've made those mistakes. They're not going to allow some new GM making those mistakes. Which is why I'm curious to see how the Terry McLaurin thing shapes out. Because, you know, you know, the owners involved in that, that's not just Alan Peters. No way. No way.

[Bill Simmons]

He's. I'm not worried about that one. So you. Is there a worse team than Cleveland for you?

[Diana Rossini]

The Titans?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, they're. They're on the list.

[Diana Rossini]

I just. I don't know what they are.

[Bill Simmons]

And I have an easier division.

[Diana Rossini]

They do. And no one pays attention to them, so they don't have to deal with the heat. I feel like, you know, Cleveland Browns fans are nuts. They're. They're so into it and. And they're so crushed every year. And the Watson thing, hanging over. It's all of it. I just think for Tennessee, it's. There's just been so much change. Ownership has gone through so much different.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Diana Rossini]

Variety, you know, whether it's getting rid of Ran Carthon, John Robinson, Mike Brable, all of those to now. They. They're trying to settle this thing down. And I've heard great things about Cam Ward, but. But I think between Cleveland and Tennessee, and I'm with you on New Orleans, they're They're. I don't think they're going to have any exceptional years. The Dolphins, too. I'm worried about them.

[Bill Simmons]

I already have all their unders. The Giants would be the fifth one. But at least the Giants, you can point to them and go, hey, they might be able to rush the ball. I mean, rush the passer. Hey, they might be able to make a couple of big plays with their receivers. Like, there's a few things there. Tennessee, I don't know what the case is. Let's take one more break and then we'll do the rest of this. All right, Quickie. For real. Is Tom Brady actually really involved with the Raiders for real, in your opinion?

[Diana Rossini]

That was my for real.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I stole your for real.

[Diana Rossini]

You stole my for real. But I was gonna. I was gonna do it and then. Answer it, answer it.

[Bill Simmons]

What's the answer?

[Diana Rossini]

He is involved in everything. Everything. First of all, it's Tom Brady. What does he care about, nevertheless have ownership in something and just goes, oh, I want nothing to do with that. Of course. Of course he's involved in this. And this just even goes back to the off season.

[Bill Simmons]

So at the Bezos wedding, he's like, hold on, guys, I got to step out. We're having an issue with our six round receiver. Like, I don't know. I don't know if I'm buying it.

[Diana Rossini]

I don't think it's. I think he's informed daily of things that are happening and he has a say. And I think he's in contact with the stars of that team. I say stars, but like outside Max Crosby, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Like Brock Bowers, I guess they have.

[Diana Rossini]

A couple of stars there. They train with Alex. The Alex program is there. Like Alex.

[Bill Simmons]

He's there. How did I miss this?

[Diana Rossini]

Yeah, Alex Guerrero's there. Go to the website, raiders.com.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow, he's back.

[Diana Rossini]

He's back. If Alex Guerrero there is there, Tom Brady is there. Right? And look, I know he lives. He still lives in Florida, but when they were going through that coaching search, you think it was just Mark Davis on the phone with these coaches? No, it was him. Ben Johnson took the interview because Tom Brady called him. He didn't want to go there.

[Bill Simmons]

Seems like he's done a lot of traveling, a lot of dating, and he's also going to be calling NFL games on Fox this year. And I just. If I'm another like, GM slash thinker in the NFL and this is a team I'm competing against, I'm probably excited that Tom Brady's kind of Half and half out.

[Diana Rossini]

I don't think he is. You think he's in? I get. He's busy. I don't think Tom Brady wants to be embarrassed by saying he's the owner of a team that's going to be a dump. He's going to make sure that it's at least at a level of respectable, at least try to figure out a way to get it there. I don't know if he has that ability to do it right because I've never seen him in a position that he's in now where he's running a team. But I don't think the Sofia Vergara, you know, makeout sesh should count as a distraction towards Tom. Brief focus.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm okay with that couple.

[Diana Rossini]

I like that couple. I thought that was. That was cute. It was.

[Bill Simmons]

I like her. I think she seems very charming. I don't think it's worked.

[Diana Rossini]

It fell apart already.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know. I don't think they're getting engaged. I think they're in the early stages. I'm interested to see how involved Brady is, because I think Brady's done a good job of the perception. I say this as somebody who brought me in. The other Patriot fans, six rings, we love Tom Brady, but he just seems very spread out all over the place. And the better thing is that he was involved with the Pete Carroll hiring. And whether Pete has two decent years left or five, I don't know. But at least he's a real head coach who has a culture in place and is going to try to make them seem like professionals, which was not the case the last few years.

[Diana Rossini]

I don't know. I think you're in denial. I think you just don't want Tom to be associated with a team that's not going to be that good.

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't like seeing him in the Raiders stuff the other day. It's a bit weird.

[Diana Rossini]

It was weird, right?

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't like it. I think he should not wear Raider stuff. Just wear, like, generic. I know. He has to. Yeah. It's still. It's weird. It's a weird one for me especially. That was the team that launched his career effectively with the. In the Snow game. Other people call it the Tuck Roll game.

[Diana Rossini]

So what's harder for you? Was it.

[Bill Simmons]

It's not hard.

[Diana Rossini]

Was it seeing the report that Bill Belichick called the jets for the job or seeing Tom Craney?

[Bill Simmons]

No, the Belichick thing. Belichick was just.

[Diana Rossini]

How weird is that?

[Bill Simmons]

I think he was just kicking every Tire possible.

[Diana Rossini]

He was so.

[Bill Simmons]

But you made the key point. You said your dad watches Judge Judy all day. Like at some point you're in your mid-70s. You probably shouldn't be coaching an NFL team anymore. Would be my expert take. It's a hard job.

[Diana Rossini]

My dad's not a plumber anymore.

[Bill Simmons]

Thank God you're competing against Ben Johnson, who's like, what is he, like 38?

[Diana Rossini]

Oh my God, the energy level of these guys running around.

[Bill Simmons]

He's like sleeping four hours a day. He doesn't care. Is. Oh, this is a good one.

[Diana Rossini]

Oh, boy.

[Bill Simmons]

Actually, I'll save it. Let's do an easy one. For real. You believe in the. In the variable bump. Is the variable bump for real?

[Diana Rossini]

No. Just kidding. I just wanted to get you nervous.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that would have hurt my feelings.

[Diana Rossini]

I know, I know you're very pro Vel. I get it. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I read everything every day. Everybody's just. The accountability is bad.

[Diana Rossini]

It's a lot. It's a lot.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, people are barely. Barely had a coach last year.

[Diana Rossini]

I get it. But they're, they're kind of going a little overboard on it. Like, it's like we're going to shove rail down your throat so much that you're going to forget about Tron Mayo. Like we're going to somehow make you not remember those final years of Belichick and whatever that situation was. Gone was. And um. And look, I get it. It's. It. It is. And, and I get it. He's the perfect person. Obviously the, the history there and, and the fact that he actually is a good coach. Right. Like this isn't smoke and mirrors. They're not just like getting a rah rah guy in. Which is probably the thing about him that gets misunderstood most from covering him so many years of just. I think people think he's just like a tough guy that likes to cheers on guys and motivates well. But he, he has a plan. He's a detailed psycho. His game management is. Is some of the best in football. He cares about dumb shit that I think is dumb. But I get why he does and why he's. His entire staff is obsessed over things. Like I remember in Tennessee on Fridays they like basically put together a tape called dumb, I think is what they called it. And Braves would have his assistant pull all the dumb stuff from the week prior, from that Sunday prior of mistakes teams were making like self inflicted shit, you know, and then show it to the team.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Diana Rossini]

And it's a great learning tool. Right? Of like, hey, this is what they did in this situation. We don't do that. So I don't know. I just think. I think the entire organization is energized with him being there because there's a plan. He knows exactly what he is. He knows exactly what he wants the team to be, and he knows how to press buttons. The clips I've been watching where he's just barking back at some of these guys, which I think is fun. Right?

[Bill Simmons]

He's gone after a couple of the reporters already. If he doesn't like a question or if he feels somebody. I think it was last week, somebody asked a question that somebody else had asked and he just like, went right after the guy who asked that. He just was like, I don't have time for this.

[Diana Rossini]

Well, he's another one. Like, if, if he doesn't like you, like, it's not a secret, you know, Like, I've battled with him over the years on things. Like, I remember doing something stupid enough press conference. I asked, I asked a bad question. Yeah, it was about injuries, which he doesn't talk injuries. And I known at that point that he doesn't like to do it, but I did it anyway because I think it was the playoffs. So he, like, just like, ices you out for a while. This is how he is. But he gets it too, though. Like, he gets me. He's, he's. He. Everyone thinks he's like Belichick and he is a little bit when it comes to injuries in media, but. But he gets it. I just think my expectations aren't as high as everybody else's for this team, but I understand it. Like, I, I get why Patriot fans are feeling this, like, euphoria right now.

[Bill Simmons]

Watching I peaked a week ago.

[Diana Rossini]

What'd you see that made you peak?

[Bill Simmons]

I think that some of the stuff coming out with the rookies who have been, I think more up and down and less reliable than we were hoping, is they hit the jackpot with the third round guard, Wilson, but Campbell's been a little up and down. Kyle Williams, the receiver who I, I think everybody thought was going to play, he's been dropping balls and so I don't know if the. We'll see. This is where Variable is going to have to work his magic. But I, I thought the draft was going to be like an A plus for them and it might be like a B plus or a B, I don't know.

[Diana Rossini]

Campbell, Campbell's gonna start. Jared, Wilson's gonna start. Henderson, Williams. We'll see.

[Bill Simmons]

Pads beat writers are saying that Campbell's gets beat at least twice a practice. So people.

[Diana Rossini]

People are talking to say, I needed the cool off. I have heard if there was a bright spot of New England right now, it's actually the offensive line. So, by the way, don't go by us idiots on the ground sometimes because I've made this mistake, whereas I do that and then the coaches will tell me later, like, you didn't even know what we were doing. Like, you had no idea what that drill was. You thought it was something else and there's a reason. Like, we actually tied his arm behind his back and you just didn't see it. Like, you know what I mean? So, yeah, look, I love the path to beat reporters. They're actually my favorite group.

[Bill Simmons]

We have great beat reporters.

[Diana Rossini]

They're awesome. I'm just.

[Bill Simmons]

Listen, I was ready to predict 12 and 5 a week ago. Now I've calmed down. That's all I'm saying.

[Diana Rossini]

We'll see how Drake takes this step. It all hinges on that.

[Bill Simmons]

I agree. Okay, here we go. Is this real? The Rogers Tomlin love fest, including a big piece I read. I think it was in the Athletic by Michael Silver about this relationship they've forged. I just always have my guard up. With all Aaron Rodgers content the last couple years, I never know what's real and what's not real. And this is a great example. Is this real? Do the Steelers actually think Aaron Rodgers is going to take them to the AFC Championship Game? Do they think this?

[Diana Rossini]

I think the relationship question is real. I think part of Mike Silver's piece was that Aaron kind of fell for Tomlin because when Mike was sitting with him, his recall was really good. I mean, to me it sounds like basic listening, but I guess people weren't listening to Aaron Rodgers or something because it was like sensitive stuff, personal things that I guess Aaron was sharing with him, and Mike asked him about it and stayed in touch with him about it. To me, it's like, yeah, of course he listened to you and stayed in touch with you because he didn't have a quarterback.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Diana Rossini]

Like, why. Why are you so excited that the head coach of a team that paid a gazillion dollars for a wide receiver, you know, is. Is calling Aaron Rodgers, who could potentially be the answer.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, someone was on that. He was on that long drive where there was no stop for food with hungry kids in the backseat, and at some point you just kind of settle for the sandwich shop you've never heard of, and Rogers was the sandwich shop. It's like, I need to feed my kids. Yeah, Roger's like, he looks like a quarterback. He's famous. I guess we're going to have to roll the dice with them. I thought he was bad last year. I know the stats say otherwise. There's good advanced stuff. I didn't think he wanted to get hit anymore. I'm always going to think that. I don't think he wants to get hit anymore.

[Diana Rossini]

There's a couple factors. I never thought that the jets situation. I initially thought the jets situation was smart. I thought that was a great move by New York at the time for where they were at. But I quickly learned that he needed the right personality at that head coach position. And I don't think Robert Sala was good for him, which I think we all learned that. And look, the injury thing is a whole nother story. I do think that Mike Tomlin personality is great for an Aaron Rodgers because Aaron Rodgers needs to be told. We know you have an opinion. We know this is what you think, but this is what we're doing. Yeah, right there. It's essentially maybe even making him feel like he's part of it. But at the end of the day, Mike Tomlin's calling the shots and I think Rogers respects him enough to go, okay, I'll shut up. We'll do what you say. And Arthur Smith's the same way. Arthur's tough. Arthur's like, I don't know if you've ever seen him in interviews. Like, he's a nice guy, but he's sharp and he'll make it work for Aaron, but he's not going to let Aaron push him around on, this is what we're going to do. Because I'm Aaron Rodgers. So from a fit standpoint with the personalities of those guys there, I like it, I think it works. But I still don't know if he has enough in him at the age the injury still to really take this team the playoffs.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe I'm too old, but I. I just feel like I've been down this road with the famous athletes that are past their prime, but you can kind of get excited about it, talk yourself into it. The best case scenario is far. The first he sucked on the jets, the first Vikings year, they were actually good.

[Diana Rossini]

Well, he didn't suck with the Jets. He just got hurt.

[Bill Simmons]

That team sucked and he got hurt. But I'm in that. What'd they go, like 5 and 11? Whatever happened?

[Diana Rossini]

They went. No, they were. I think they were. Didn't they go to the playoffs? So they were about to Go to the playoffs and then he got hurt. Anyways, it didn't work well.

[Bill Simmons]

He left. I thought it didn't work well. As we said earlier, like, we can't remember things anymore. The jets thing, whatever. He went to Minnesota. They almost made the super bowl, but then the next year was bad.

[Diana Rossini]

When's the last time we saw like outside Brett? When's the last time an old player joined a team and we were like, like Odell Beckham with the Rams that one year. Like, I'm trying to think of like an old player that you're like, excited about and they're actually good. What about in Washington? They're all old. They're pretty good there.

[Bill Simmons]

It's tough with quarterbacks and basketball gets tough. We see this like when like Carmelo Anthony got older. It's like Oklahoma City's added Carmelo Anthony and it's like it's not Carmelo Anthony anymore. He's at a different point of his career. Like when I guess Brady going to the Bucs is the best all time kid, but Brady almost doesn't count in these because he's Brady. It does, but. Yeah, the Emmett Smith going to the Cardinals, like, I don't know, it's just. You kind of know how it's going to go each time. In this case, like their offensive line, I think is. It seems like it's going to be pretty good this year. Not great, but pretty good.

[Diana Rossini]

Bad. Right. I'm thinking baseball. Sorry, I switched sports in my head. I'm thinking like in baseball, who's like the old folk that we believed in.

[Bill Simmons]

And hockey had like. Gretzky was on three more teams than I think people remember. Near the end, he's just started like bouncing around. Jerry Rice was on. He was after the Raiders, I think he. Did he go to the Redskins? Like there was one other thing. Yeah, like he. He kind of kept going. Yeah. I'm not seeing it. My last one for you is this from a Jets fan friend of mine who I always kind of trust with the jets. And they said, listen, I don't know how good we're going to be, but we have an identity this year. I know what this team is. We're going to play defense, we're going to run the ball and Fields is going to run the ball a lot. We have a good offensive line and we're going to be in these ugly games. And I at least know what this is. And I actually think it's going to be okay. And I think we might. We're not going to be dangerous, but we might be, you know, a little frisky. What are your. Are the jets frisky? Frisky jets for real? For you?

[Diana Rossini]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. He's got a good pulse on it. He must be reading Zach Rosenblatt from the Athletic who does a good job of just laying it out. Like Zach's not scared. Like he's just like this seems stinks or this seems decent. And everything he's been writing from there has been that. And I talk to him a lot too. Look, I think they were lost. The Rogers experiment was a disaster for a lot of different reasons. And they just cleaned house. And I know some of it was a little uncomfortable, a little prickly at times with all this change, but I think at least I don't know if Aaron Glenn is going to be a good head coach. Okay. Just like I don't really know if Ben Johnson's going to be a good head coach. I just know from talking to people around the league that these guys were great at coaching their units. That doesn't always mean that they're the best CEOs, you know. And I don't like the fact that Aaron Glenn isn't doing the coaching that he was so great at in Detroit. That is the only reason why I'm like a little bothered by New York. Because if your head coach's greatest strength isn't being used, then why is he there like that. That. That was what I. That's the reason why I thought New York hired.

[Bill Simmons]

But I think as they figure it out as they're coaching, they start putting their tentacles around and figuring out how to sprinkle in their little fairy dust the things they know.

[Diana Rossini]

And he's a big Parcells disciple obviously and he has already mannerisms of him and I've heard some things that just like a very parcels way of conducting things, meetings, dealing with the coaching staff.

[Bill Simmons]

He also wanted to coach the jets, which isn't any small thing. Like he actually wanted the job. He wasn't leveraging them. He wasn't like, oh, you're my last chance to get hired. He's like, I want to. I like the Jets. I want to be your coach. So they went from having complete instability with coaching QB to now at least whether you like the QB or not. I'm not a huge fan of fields, but I think if you're going to use them the way they're going to use them, it might they're going to be hard to play. They're going to pull off like two upsets this year. And people are going to be like, oh, my God, the Jets are beating the Chiefs or whoever.

[Diana Rossini]

You know, just because I live in Jets. Giants land.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Diana Rossini]

If you had to pick a team, who you picking for?

[Bill Simmons]

For wins? Yeah, Jets.

[Diana Rossini]

Yeah, me too. Because the division, obviously, but also, I mean, not that. Who knows, Your pass could be a problem. They got to face the Bills. They got dealing with Josh coming off an MVP season.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a pretty good division situation. What's. What was your. For real? Because we got to wrap up.

[Diana Rossini]

All right. My for real. The Minnesota Vikings seem thrilled about J.J. mcCarthy. That he's the guy.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Diana Rossini]

Is this real?

[Bill Simmons]

What else are they going to say?

[Diana Rossini]

It's a lot.

[Bill Simmons]

He didn't play football for a year. There was that story about how my buddy House loved this, how Kevin o' Connell talked to him for an hour to try to simulate last season, simulate the process they would have when he was a starting qb. But he's coming off a major injury and he hasn't played football in two years. I'd be nervous if I was a Vikings fan. Not great.

[Diana Rossini]

First of all, House, that was my story.

[Bill Simmons]

Which one?

[Diana Rossini]

I remember doing that. I did that for one of my insider notes of every week Kevin Kyle spends an hour.

[Bill Simmons]

Look at. House is quoting. This is great.

[Diana Rossini]

But it's funny to hear it back because it's so stupid. I wish I wrote that. I wish I wrote at the time. It felt productive. Like, look at this. Hands on coach, including the young.

[Bill Simmons]

I wouldn't mind it. I just don't know if that's going to. If it means he's going to be a quarterback. Yeah.

[Diana Rossini]

They're using virtual reality. They're doing all this and you know, then he lost all the weight. But. But really what House is saying is he lost the reps. That's what he. You need the reps on scout team. Right. Whether he was starting or not, he needed to be out there. And he lost all of that as well as the weight, which he seemed to, you know, he's back and he, from what I heard, had an awesome spring. But look, this is team. They are built to win. They are built to win. They let Sam Darnold walk, they let Daniel Jones walk, they let Aaron Rodgers walk. And they stuck with him because they believe in him. So they know something we don't. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, where they took him in the draft, like, he kind of has to be good. Their whole setup was meant for them to win a title with a quarterback on the rookie scale. A little like Denver, actually. Although Denver's playing with 30 million less than the salary cap.

[Diana Rossini]

I guess you have to make that move. Like, if you're the owner and you're looking at it, you're going, yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna stick with the guy we drafted.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Diana Rossini]

But from like a win now, I don't know, I bet you we could debate it.

[Bill Simmons]

The question for me is how much is he going to have to do? Because their defense, they have, you know, a top five coaching staff. They have good defense, they should be able to block. We think they have Jefferson. They hopefully have Addison Hawkinson full year. Could he. Could he just kind of steer the car? Does he have to actually get on the highway and go into the carpool lane and start dodging around?

[Diana Rossini]

I'm going to be down there or out there in Minnesota next week. I'll let you know. But I'm my guess they're going to keep it simple with him. I mean it's. But a lot of this is going to be. Can the quarterback keep it simple? As much as Kevin o' Connell's fantastic and staff is great, but sometimes these. Look at how he was, how he played in college. Right. Like, I wouldn't call that simple.

[Bill Simmons]

The schedule, I remember not being happy with it because especially like they play the. Well, they play the second place one but they start out with like the two night games in a row home Cincy. Then they go to Dublin and London in the first five weeks. Like for a guy who's just trying to get his C legs in this position, it's just not a normal first five weeks. So that would make me nervous about them. But I, I weirdly like them more than Green Bay though. A lot of people are high on Green Bay and I don't know that was the other. For real. I was going to ask you is, do you. We're. Now it's. It's year two of this is going to be Jordan Love's giant breakout season. He got hurt at the beginning of last year and now we're playing all the hits again. I don't love his receivers at all. I know they spent a lot of capital on him, but I don't think he has a reliable receiver. Jacobs, whatever. There's a lot of good advanced stats about him not being as good as the actual stats or their offensive lines. Fine. But I don't. Some people think like he's going to become a top five quarterback this year and I don't know if. I don't know if I'M down with that one.

[Diana Rossini]

I'm taking Minnesota over Green Bay right now. I think I'm with you from a. I just think. But they're coming off like. I understand they. They shit the bed against the Rams.

[Bill Simmons]

But two straight weeks.

[Diana Rossini]

Look, here's the thing with that season, too. From looking back on it and even just talking to some people there, it kind of reminds me. So in high school, I ran track, and my goal was to win the counties, and I won the counties, which was cool. And I was new to track, so I didn't know. So stupid. I didn't know after counties, you go to states. So all season long, I'm training. Like, I want to win counties. I want to win counties. I win the counties. And then when you win the county, you got to go play. You got to go run in the state.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Diana Rossini]

And I got my ass kicked. Like, I came in, like, 27th place. Like, embarrass Bergen county because my head never, like, thought big. And I think for the Vikings, I think they did that, which I. So such a ridiculous analogy, but it's. I kind of understand it. Their goal was they were so locked in game to game, they weren't thinking big enough. And I think at times it hurt them last year, and they poured everything in to that one game and that when they play the Rams, they're just, like, not good enough because they were, like, spent, which we've seen before in playoff games, you know, where you see them all ready to go for the championship game and come to the Super Bowl. They're not prepared because they're all jammed up for the. For the divisional game or the championship game. But.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, go ahead.

[Diana Rossini]

But for right now, where I'm at and how I feel about the situations, I just have more confidence in Minnesota.

[Bill Simmons]

The Makarth thing makes me nervous. So you're traveling to a bunch of training camps over the next couple weeks, I assume.

[Diana Rossini]

Yeah, I got a little Minnesota. I'm going to see your Patriots soon. Going to go to Washington. I'll bring up House if he's around.

[Bill Simmons]

Is there a team that we. We didn't talk about that. You're just intrigued by that. You feel like people are sleeping on the Houston Texans.

[Diana Rossini]

I think they've got a really good defense. Yeah, I have. I had concerns all season about that offensive line. Obviously, be treated Laramie tonsil to the Washington Commanders. But Casseroles got that Patriot way, right.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Diana Rossini]

Where like, he always gets rid of players before they peak.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Diana Rossini]

So that was like. No, right before they peak. Oh, no. Right after. You're right. Just as they peak. And then he's like, yeah, we're good.

[Bill Simmons]

He's selling. Selling two years or a year and a half too early. But it's not actually too early. It's the perfect time, but nobody realizes it. Yeah.

[Diana Rossini]

So I think they were a team I was hot on last year. I was not predicting that sophomore slump from CJ So, yeah, I was at camp with them. In fact, good news for you. I remember Diggs. I remember C.J. telling me about Diggs last year. Just, like, how competitive he is and intense and, like, what a leader. And it's funny, too, because Diggs is one of those guys, like, on social media and obviously the cardi b stuff and all the ridiculousness, you think he's probably not locked in. But even just talking to people in New England, like, they love him up there.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Diana Rossini]

Love them.

[Bill Simmons]

They wanted, like, some sort of alpha set. Set the example. Forge relationships with people. Some sort of veteran connective tissue, but somebody who's actually good. Yeah, it's something that the veterans. But they actually have to be good in the drills. They have to be good in the practice, which is the second piece of it.

[Diana Rossini]

And I also think that's kind of a rebel thing, too. Of, like, he needed his kind of dudes there to, like, push the message of what he needs and wants. And I think Diggs is. I don't know if they had a relationship prior, but I'm gonna guess he did his work on them. They're not bringing him in unless they.

[Bill Simmons]

Think, well, look at the personalities they brought in. Like Spillane, Will Campbell, Diggs. Like, they have these dudes now that are walking around their chest out like alpha dudes, which I think that was the biggest thing he wanted to change. Um, can you make your own meat sauce?

[Diana Rossini]

Yes, I can. Every Sunday I do.

[Bill Simmons]

What's your. What's your number one Italian meal that you make?

[Diana Rossini]

Um, I pro. I like what's my best.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, what's your. What's your. Yeah, what's your number one?

[Diana Rossini]

So it's neck and neck. I make a really good linguine clam sauce. And interesting. My husband would say, my chicken parm. He loves my chicken bar. He gets that when the Eagles lose, because I always feel bad. I also try to do it to make him happy because a miserable Philadelphia fan is my health. So you make the belly happy.

[Bill Simmons]

He got the title last year. He can settle down. And they have the most talented team this year.

[Diana Rossini]

I FaceTimed him after they Won because I was at the game.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Diana Rossini]

And, you know, he's crying, which so freaking weird, but he's crying. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. So he's, like, going through the game with me, and I'm rushing, by the way. I gotta do a job, you know, But I was just doing. I love him, and, you know, he loves his Eagles probably more than me.

[Bill Simmons]

But you gotta work.

[Diana Rossini]

Yeah. Gotta go do my thing. So he starts talking to me about, like, what do you think we're gonna do at corner next year, though? Like, I'm like, what?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, he already moved to next season. Jesus.

[Diana Rossini]

He kind of Travis Kelsey, me. You know what I mean? Like, he's already, like, thinking that I'm like, not. Not now. Like, not now.

[Bill Simmons]

He probably started thinking at halftime because the game was over. Started thinking about next season.

[Diana Rossini]

It's true. Nuts, right? I know. It's just. It's the second. But that's what makes Philadelphia great, is, like, they're just never satisfied, and they're just not. Like, they don't even care about that super bowl now.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. That's how you have to be. That's the Tom Brady. What's your favorite Super Bowl? The next one. All right. Diana Rossini. Thank you. This is great. You can, by the way, can read your stuff at the Athletic, but also Scoop City is the podcast, if you want to go check it out.

[Diana Rossini]

Well, House reads my column because he's pulling quotes out of there, apparently.

[Bill Simmons]

He does, yeah. He's quoting you. This is impressive.

[Diana Rossini]

The Athletic, I love, by the way. Funny inside thing. So obviously, when. When you're putting out information all the time, people in the league like to read your stuff, and they check it out. I can't tell you how many head coaches and general managers will text me, hey, saw your article. And I. And I'll write, oh, thanks. Or whatever. Or usually, actually, it's more. I don't like what you said about this. And they'll send me, like, a. Like, a clip of something, and I'm like, that's not, like, from the website. What is that? They won't subscribe because they don't want to spend the money.

[Bill Simmons]

They can't charge it to the team.

[Diana Rossini]

Like, you're millionaires. I don't know. It's the most common thing. Even players, like, I'll send a player if I do, like, a good feature on them. Like, hey, check it. I'm like, oh. They'll be like, sorry, I'm not a subscriber. I don't like to, like, add up. I don't like to have so many subscriptions in my account. Like the hell. This is why they're so rich.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, thank you. Good to see you. Enjoy the rest of your Sunday.

[Diana Rossini]

Appreciate you.

[Bill Simmons]

All right. Thanks to Diana Rossini. Thanks to Gahao and Eduardo as well. I am not sure when the next episode of this podcast is going to be. Could be any. I'll keep you on your toes. We'll see. We'll see if actual sports stuff happens over the next few days, but odds are you will see me in a week on Sunday, barring something super fun. Don't forget rewatchables Monday night Robocop and I will see you down the road. Must be 21 plus in President select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + in President D.C. gambling problem. Call 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com, call 1-887-89-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplian ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text hopeny in New York.