LeBron’s Philly Shocker! Plus, the 2011 NBA Redraftables With Zach Lowe.

Summary

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The Bill Simmons Podcast

Episode: LeBron’s Philly Shocker! Plus, the 2011 NBA Redraftables With Zach Lowe
Date: July 24, 2026
Host: Bill Simmons
Guest: Zach Lowe

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Overview

This episode was unexpectedly dominated by the seismic NBA news that LeBron James is joining the Philadelphia 76ers—an outcome neither Bill Simmons nor his guest Zach Lowe saw coming. Originally planning to do a 2011 NBA Redraftables episode, they dive deep into the on- and off-court implications of LeBron’s move before shifting into a nostalgic, detailed redraft of the wild 2011 NBA draft. The conversation blends instant reaction, basketball nerdery, conspiracy speculation, laughing at themselves, and rich historical context.

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01. LeBron James to Philadelphia: Shocker and Deep Dive

Timestamps: 00:01–43:36

Initial Reactions & Shock Meter

• LeBron to the Sixers is a "holy shit" moment (Bill, 01:00); neither Bill nor Zach saw any realistic signs of this—Bill thought Cleveland was the destination.
• Zach rates it a 7.5/10 on “Woe Scale” (Zach, 02:36): “All these teams were telling you the last two weeks, we don't know. We're in the dark. We're completely in the dark.”
• Zach suspects LeBron's appearance on a Bob Myers show was a key clue.

Big Picture & Team Construction

• The Sixers’ new core: Embiid, Maxey, Edgecombe, Jaylen Brown, and LeBron (as PF).
• Potential: "If everyone’s healthy and playing together, this would be a nightmare to guard" (Bill, 03:33).
• Usage concerns: “Rarely does a championship contender have a usage hierarchy that makes sense... they can stagger minutes, and LeBron and Embiid will naturally miss games” (Zach, 07:47).

LeBron’s Future & “Last Decision”

• Skepticism over LeBron’s “this is my last decision” public statement (Zach, 05:21):

  "You are going to be a skeptic till the end. I respect you. I’m going to take him at his word. This is it." (Zach, 05:56)

• Bill’s take: “Boxers say they’ll retire all the time... actors, wrestlers—it’s never the last one until they’re gone for a couple of years” (05:56).

Sixers’ Roster & Playoff Implications

• Bench depth is a plus, though backup C is a potential weak spot (Simons, Dean Wade, Bona as options).
• Flexibility: “They have flexibility with or without Embiid, right? Maxi and Jalen and LeBron are three of the top 20–25 players in the league, with Embiid as the wild card.” (Bill, 05:56)
• Strategy: Limit regular season minutes for Embiid & LeBron, gearing up for playoffs.

Defensive/Offensive Fit & Comp Situation

• Why not Cleveland? “I just don’t know how he would have won a title with that Cleveland team” (Bill, 05:56).
• Defensive fit compared to Cleveland; usage challenges are real but not insurmountable:

  “You can stagger minutes incredibly strictly... they have enough pieces to take the air out of the regular season, rest the right dudes, and get to April/May/June.” (Zach, 07:05)

Trust in Embiid

• Bill remains skeptical: “I just don’t. I don’t trust Embiid. I don’t. He has—”
• Zach: “Well, how could you play big minutes?” (11:49)
• Discussion of Premier League style management for Embiid’s health (09:21).

Free Agent Dominoes & Summer Conspiracies

• Bill brings “Conspiracy Bill” to the table: Was the Davis/LeBron angle a real domino?
• Zach: League sources gave “universal shoulder shrugs” but clutch’s maneuvers suggest some dominos were in play.
• On the Cleveland speculation: “I’m always going to think he was looking at Cleveland first… I don’t think he liked the roster” (Bill, 14:59).

Jaylen Brown’s Role: Wild Card

• Jaylen Brown “almost the most interesting character in this whole drama” (Zach, 18:56):

  “Not only is he not the number one option, he has two former MVPs in his starting five…”

• Usage crunch: “Last year his usage rate was 36.2%... Jalen is going to get the short straw.” (Bill, 20:46)
• Is Jaylen on the team in October? Both think yes, but discuss trade possibilities and his contract/extension intrigue.

Playoff Landscape and Rivalries

• East’s arms race: Detroit, Boston, Knicks, Cavs, Heat, Raptors all look tough.
• Is this Philly’s best possible five on paper? “Pretty strong case” (Zach, 11:49).
• Edgecombe’s new role: “Biggest loser for growth, turns into a 3-and-D guy now, I think” (Bill, 29:08).
• Boston/Philly rivalry supercharged; Jaylen now in Philly against his old team.
• LeBron’s Eastern Conference storyline includes potential matchups vs. Cleveland, Miami, Toronto, and the Knicks—a playoff soap opera.

LeBron’s Motivations and Odds

• “This is a title run… I’m going to try to get a fifth ring here.” (Bill, 05:56)
• LeBron can live in NYC and still play in Philly: “The New York City piece of this can’t be underrated.” (Bill, 37:33)
• Vegas: Sixers 4th best title odds, +380 to win East, -130 for 50+ wins (Bill, 17:13)
• Will LeBron win a title with Philly? “I would bet against them winning a title” (Zach, 34:39)

High Stakes and Legacy

• Who has the most at stake? “It’s got to be Embiid, right?” (Bill, 43:23)
• “I don’t think either of us thought LeBron could win a title as the 1st or 2nd best player at his age; here, he floats as 3rd or 4th best. Best possible situation.” (Bill, 44:44)

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Notable Quotes

• “I don’t believe anything... I don’t think he’s going to retire unless he feels old.” — Bill, 05:09
• “This is the number one team in the rankings of 'Fuck, they’re playing everybody tonight.'” — Bill, 11:49
• “Jaylen Brown is almost the most interesting character in this whole drama that has played out.” — Zach, 18:56
• “If Embiid can give them anything in the playoffs, they’re a contender to get to the finals for sure. I just have no faith.” — Zach, 16:06
• “LeBron doesn’t adhere to any traditional superstar career track... this team feels random, but that’s kind of in step with how he’s handled his career.” — Zach, 36:11

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02. 2011 NBA Redraftables: Complete Re-Pick and Deep Analysis

Timestamps: 47:00–end

The Wild Original Draft Context

• 2011: The “foreigner draft”—Kyrie, Kawhi, Klay, Jimmy all went outside the top 10 except Kyrie.
• Infamous trade: Pacers drafted Kawhi at 15th, then traded him to the Spurs for George Hill.
• Bill: “This is a 10 out of 10 batshit crazy draft... four best guys went 1, 11, 15, and 30.”

Redraft Top Four (w/ Reasoning & Debate)

1. Kawhi Leonard (originally 15th)

• “Easier than I thought” (Zach, 49:10). Two Finals MVPs, best two-way player, only one w/ first team All-NBAs, seven All-NBAs.
• “Best player alive at end of 2019.” (Bill, 49:58)

2. Kyrie Irving (originally 1st)

• “Second best guy on a championship team, hit one of the biggest shots of the century.” (Bill, 55:40)
• “If he’d ever been ‘the guy’ for longer we might think of him differently.” (Zach, 55:40)

3. Jimmy Butler (originally 30th)

• “Best player on two Finals teams that didn’t win; carried teams to the Finals, which I don’t think Klay could have done as a number one.” (Bill, 57:37)
• Culture impact, defensive edge, chemistry streaky.

4. Klay Thompson (originally 11th)

• “One of four ever to make 2000 threes at 40%+ ... also a top-tier defender, ultimate teammate.” (Bill, 59:44)
• “Fire really burns in him... beloved, a grinder, all-time favorite.” (Zach, 60:16)

Picks 5–20 (Key Highlights)

• Kemba Walker: “His highs were higher than anyone else here” (Zach, 65:07).
• Nikola Vucevic: Iron man, steady stats, but never won a playoff series (Bill, 66:45).
• Tobias Harris: “Zero All-Star, but rock solid; traded constantly but always the best piece” (Bill, 70:57).
• Isaiah Thomas (60th pick!): “Two-year Celtics run was wild—fifth in MVP voting, second team All-NBA for a 5'9" guard.” (Bill, 73:29)
• Tristan Thompson: “Most annoying offensive rebounder in the league... does dirty work willingly” (Zach, 75:33).
• Jonas Valanciunas: “Top five or six ‘don’t mess with him’ guy for 12 years” (Bill, 78:05).

Later “Steals” and Oddities

• Bojan Bogdanović: “Could always knock down shots, underrated post game.” (Zach, 81:53)
• Marcus Morris: “Rotation guy for two conference finals teams, just better than his twin” (Bill, 83:15)
• Enes Kanter/Freedom: “One of the best PER 36 guys ever, uniquely skilled on O, uniquely bad on D” (Bill & Zach, 84:59)
• Davis Bertans (42nd pick): “Let it fly, no conscience at all” (Zach, 91:24).
• Bismack Biyombo, Cory Joseph, Kenneth Faried: Scrappy role players, all have “guy you’ll always remember from this draft” vibe.

Misses & “What Ifs”

• Derrick Williams (2nd): “Biggest miss, thought he’d be a stretch 4 star” (Bill, 53:32)
• The curse of the 2nd pick: “Look down the list—Sam Bowie, Lenny Bias, Danny Ferry, Darko...”
• Jimmer Fredette, Jan Vesely: Examples of mid–lottery flameouts.
• Notably, several players (e.g., Chandler Parsons, Markieff Morris) could have been better in a different draft/era.

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Memorable Quotes (Redraftables)

• “This draft was fucking not only drunk but like throwing up and having its hair held back as it puked again.” — Bill, 75:33
• “Chandler Parsons is going to help recruit free agents; he was always at the forefront of that.” — Zach, 84:19
• “If Fareed doesn’t end up having a meaningful moment for a contender... I’m giving a full refund for this column.” — Bill, 94:18

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03. Timestamps – Important Segments

• LeBron News Drops/Initial Reaction: 00:01–07:05
• Sixers Roster Construction & Strategy: 07:05–14:00
• Usage & Cleveland Comparison: 14:00–17:13
• Jaylen Brown’s Role/Intrigue: 18:56–22:27
• East Playoff Picture/Rivalries: 29:37–34:13
• LeBron’s Motivations/Vegas Odds: 34:13–36:11
• Final LeBron/Philly Legacy Thoughts: 42:43–43:41
• 2011 Redraftables Segment Starts: 47:00
• Redraft Top Four (Kawhi/Kyrie/Butler/Klay): 49:10–57:37
• Mid-Lottery and Deep Dive into the Weirdo Class: 65:07–97:21
• Draft Recap & Draft Philosophy: 101:10–end

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04. Classic Simmons-Lowe Dynamics & Tone

• Tone: Engaged, fast, referential, self-deprecating, conspiratorial (especially “Conspiracy Bill”), comedic.
• Zach often brings fact-checks, league-insider context, and smart pushback.
• Bill acts as the narrator/instigator, inviting wild hypotheticals and keeping it conversational.

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05. For Those Who Missed the Episode – Why Listen?

• First draft reactions to the biggest NBA offseason move: LeBron to Philly—full breakdown of cap, fit, motives, and ripple effects.
• Inside baseball on NBA maneuvering: “Conspiracy Bill” and Zach’s league-sourcing on summer dominoes.
• Immediate playoff picture/ranking changes: Tough, realistic assessments for Philly, Boston, and the new heavyweight East.
• Nostalgic and analytical walk through an iconic, weird NBA draft class.
• Super quotable, perfectly balances jokes, hypotheticals, and analytics—never too inside baseball, always accessible.

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Sample Soundbites with Timestamps:

• “This is the number one team in the rankings of 'Fuck, they’re playing everybody tonight.'” — Bill Simmons, 11:49
• “Jaylen Brown is almost the most interesting character in this whole drama.” — Zach Lowe, 18:56
• “I would bet against them winning a title.” — Zach Lowe, 34:39
• “This draft was fucking not only drunk, but like throwing up and having its hair held back as it puked again.” — Bill Simmons, 75:33

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Advertisements, sponsor reads, and outros omitted for clarity.

Transcript

[Bill Simmons]

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[Zach Lowe]

7.5. The moment Bob Myers went on, game over. I had someone in the league. I said, some ipod. Just say to me, someone smart. Not, not necessarily read. Not, not, not even reading tea leaves. Which is saying, why would he go on that show and potentially debase himself like that if he didn't know something? And since then, that's but that doesn't necessarily mean anything because all these teams were just telling you the last two weeks, we don't know. We're in the dark. We're completely in the dark. I, I, I'm 7.5. It's not, it's not a 10, it's not a 9, but it's pretty high. I, I just, I'm like you. I just always thought momentum would push him towards a familiar destination, whether it was Cleveland, Miami, or his friends in Golden State. And this is, this is fun, man. I, I, I, I actually really like this for a, a whole multitude of reasons. I think this is a really fun, I think this might be. Other than Minnesota, which was a pipe dream, and Denver, which is like a triple pipe dream, this is a really fun outcome.

[Bill Simmons]

So you're going to do the deep dive on Sunday. We are doing the irrational holy shit reactions to this. Um, big picture. This is maybe, maybe not Joel Embiid. We have no idea how many games he's gonna play. You have a franchise guy in Maxi who's also a clutch guy. You have Vijay Edgecombe, year two. You have Jaylen Brown just being thrown into all this. And then LeBron, I guess as the power forward. It's a basketball team that makes sense from a usage rate standpoint. Does not make sense. But this is a team that, if everybody's healthy and playing together, this would be kind of a nightmare to guard. And especially if they're playing with pace like they did with Edgecomb and Maxey in a couple of those playoff games. And then you throw LeBron into that. I'm just surprised that this man almost makes me wonder if he's going to play until he's 45 now, which he's hinted at a couple times. We thought like, oh, this would be the last year or the last two years. He said some things over the summer that like, why should I have to retire if I don't have to? Right. Tom Brady played till he's 45. And I wonder because the Cleveland thing, which we can talk about later, they just couldn't figure out how to make that work. Um, I wonder maybe, maybe that's where this ends anyway. Maybe he thinks two years title chase and then I'll end up in Cleveland for at the end.

[Zach Lowe]

We're already projecting him out of Philadelphia over to Cleveland. Can you give me a minute?

[Bill Simmons]

It's a.

[Zach Lowe]

Can you give me a minute?

[Bill Simmons]

Deal.

[Zach Lowe]

My God, he's going to be 44 years old at the end of it. Let him retire. I I mean, look, he said in his. I, I have, I'm still worth this. We're doing this live. Didn't he say this is his last decision in one of the 14 tweets he sent out announcing this?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know. I don't believe anything. And I, I don't think he's going to retire unless, unless he feels old. Like, he's not going to. It's not going to be one of those things where it's like, oh, I could put up 20 next year. I'm going to retire, though. Like, it's.

[Zach Lowe]

I, I'm just going to read you what he said. I've had an incredible few months with all the people I love trying to figure it all out. This is my last decision. I'm not going for money, I'm not going for family. What am I really playing for at this point? I still want to sacrifice. I still want to work, I still want to grind. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Thank you, la. Thank you, Miami. I'll forever love in Northeast Ohio, will always be home. Minnesota doesn't get any acknowledgement in the, In Golden State. Between Golden State. Not. Not acknowledgement. Look, this is my last decision. You are going to be a skeptic till the end. I respect you. I'm going to take him at his word. This is it.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, this is like when boxers say they're going to retire or actors say they're doing their last movie or wrestlers like, this is my farewell match. I'll never believe he's going to retire until he hasn't played for a couple of years. But this is. We'll start here. This is, this is a title run. This is. I'm going to try to get a fifth, a fifth ring here, which I think Cleveland, I don't know if they couldn't have figured out how to. I just don't know how he would have won a title with that Cleveland team. From what we saw last year and some of the defensive deficiencies that would. Deficiencies they would have had Golden State, that would have been a super fun team, a traveling America, the biggest high profile bunch of stars and famous people on one team in 10 years. But I don't think they would have won the title. This team, if they can get Embiid going, could win the title. And what's interesting is they have flexibility with or without Embiid, right? Because you would have Maxi and Jalen and LeBron, who are three of the top 20 to 25 players in the league, with them, beat as the Wild card. And then you see what happens with Edgecomb. Did you like what they did in the off season?

[Zach Lowe]

From a bench standpoint, I like Simons. Dean Wade looks a lot better as your seventh, eighth guy coming off the bench than he did in the starting five, which LeBron takes his spot. One of the greatest upgrades in late, late off season rotation history. Dean WADE Trumped by LeBron James for starting power forward spot. Mike Gansey getting the boys back together. By the way he came out. Mike Gans is like, if I'm going to get, I. I've waited a long time for this. I'm coming in swinging, I'm doing whatever I want. After that, the depth is a little bit unproven, particularly behind Embiid. It's just a Dembona and Huck Porty at this point maybe.

[Bill Simmons]

And Filon too. I, I like him.

[Zach Lowe]

He'll play.

[Bill Simmons]

I think he could actually be like a tenth man for them.

[Zach Lowe]

But look, I think there's, I mean, when you, you mentioned the two things you said that I, I would be interested to dive into a little bit more you mentioned, from a usage standpoint, it doesn't make sense. And I know what you mean, because they have four extremely high usage players now on their team. But rarely does a championship contender have a usage hierarchy that makes sense in that sort of perfect, idyllic way. Like this is just part and parcel of building a championship team. Number two, they can stagger minutes incredibly strictly and they will do that, like, to whatever pairing they want you to go together, you two go together. And we know that LeBron will miss games and Embiid will miss. Miss a ton of games.

[Bill Simmons]

But.

[Zach Lowe]

So I think there's enough here to solve that problem. The other thing I would say, why you said about Cleveland, the defensive deficiencies that you saw in that roster, why is that team with LeBron worse than this team defensively only with LeBron? Because you have two small guards just like you have there. And they have Mobley plus Allen. This is small ball power forward plus Embiid, whose mobility slash health is always questionable, to say the least.

[Bill Simmons]

Fair. Well, I was looking from a Cleveland standpoint, ultimately, you're talking about who's your five when there's six, seven minutes left in a playoff game. Right. And their best five would have been Allen and Mobley and LeBron and Mitchell and Harden. I think I just don't like that as a five. You have LeBron trying to guard guys in the wing. You have Harden who can't guard anybody.

[Zach Lowe]

That's Fair.

[Bill Simmons]

It's. I just think that's a. I don't think LeBron is a small forward at this stage of his career. I think he's a 4 or 5. But on the flip side, with Philly and Bede, who can certainly be put in a torture chamber, LeBron can ratchet it up or down, depending on whatever. And you made the key point. They have these. They have in Jalen and VJ and Maxi, three guys who can play 70 games at least. And 2400 minutes, 2500 minutes somewhere in there. You could move the other two around there and be. Could almost be on like a Premier League schedule. Like, you could just say, play, play home games. You're going to play 40 games this year. We just want to keep you ready for the playoffs. And the same thing with LeBron. You can just. You say, hey, LeBron, we're just going to play you 25 minutes a game and all we care about is the spring. So they have the kind of roster that I feel like could, could, I don't know, could basically get those guys ready for April, May, June, which is all they're going to care about.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, and the Premier League schedule is not an option in the playoffs. And the ultimate question is like, will Joel Embiid ever be healthy for three or four playoff series? Which is what the dream here is. I will say there's enough star power between Maxi lebron and Jaylen Brown. I'll throw Edgecombe in there. Like, I think Edgecomb was spectacular as a rookie. Has a big leap coming that they could put a representative, competitive team on the floor without Embiid if they have to, for a couple games here, a couple games there, and steal games. We've seen them steal games without Embiid before and now they're kind of loaded. But to your point about the regular season, like, the east is no picnic. Getting into the top six in the east is going to be hard. And I think they have fortified themselves really, really well to be able to get into the top six while not overplaying Embiid or LeBron or anybody, because it's not going to be easy. But they have enough sort of top line depth to do it. I mean, on paper, Bill, we can go through the starting fives in Oklahoma City and New York in San Antonio. Is this the best starting five in the NBA on paper? Who else is in contention besides the teams that I named? I mean, I don't, I don't know. I don't think anybody is Denver, if Denver's ever Fully formed.

[Bill Simmons]

So on paper, you're basically saying, I'm getting the glass half full version of Joel Embiid. Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Any given night, he feels 95% throw this lineup out there. Is there a better starting five in the NBA despite the one ball overlapping skill sets and all that? I mean, I think they have a pretty strong case.

[Bill Simmons]

I will say this. This is pro. So here's what here would. My answer would be, this is the number one team in the rankings of. Fuck. They're playing everybody tonight. If you're the other team, like, oh, shit, all these guys are going to play tonight. God damn, that's going to be hard for us. But, yeah, I just don't. I don't trust Embiid. I don't. He has.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, how could you play big minutes?

[Bill Simmons]

Can we bring Conspiracy Bill in for a second?

[Zach Lowe]

I always welcome. I listened to a Conspiracy Bill go through a couple of mailbag questions yesterday in my car, and I was laughing the whole time. So he's always a welcome, welcome addition.

[Bill Simmons]

It felt like Anthony Davis was a key component of this LeBron free agent summer. Right.

[Zach Lowe]

I just don't. You feel like that was made up? Like, I just don't think.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't. So how do you explain James Harden not signing the contract extension and Dre and. Or the contract, whatever you call it, and then Draymond opting out and kind of waiting to see what happened with LeBron. To me, that felt like LeBron side putting leverage on those two teams. Like, we don't love the team that you have right now. We need one more move from you. Right. There's no other explanation. It's July 24th. Neither of those guys have signed yet. I don't understand that.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, there is another explanation. They're just waiting for LeBron to make his decision independent of anything else. Shams reported yesterday on McAfee show that there was no other domino they were waiting for at this point. Now, that doesn't mean there never was. That just means they could have realized yesterday, having planned probably to make this announcement today, that another domino was not coming. And as I'm saying this seam saying that yesterday almost makes me more suspicious that at one point there was a domino that maybe they were dreaming on. But here's what. What I say. Wait, hold on.

[Bill Simmons]

Conspiracy building. Finish the. I didn't round it around.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Embiid for Davis does work from a

[Zach Lowe]

salary cap standpoint, but you're just coming out. You're putting him on the captain 20, 28.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, my God. But Could. Could this open the door? Philly uses the rest of their assets and, and tries to get Davis and Washington gets the Embiid contract and some other assets. I. I just, my brain went there for a second. I don't think it'll happen. If I was Philly, I would want to see this Embiid thing for a year before I got there. But I just felt like the Davis thing felt important all summer.

[Zach Lowe]

So when I meant it, was it ever real? Like, I don't think the Wizards and the warriors ever had a real conversation about Anthony Davis. I don't think the teams were ever involved. I'm not sure that ever went to the warriors and said anything directly about Anthony. Like, again, every team I talked to on all sides of this was like, I don't know. I know as much as you know. And I would call about these rumors and they'd be like, hey, that's news to us. Like, you call the Cavs about, hey, I hear you're trying to salary dump player X, Y and Z. They'd be like, we are. It's news to me. Now. Everyone lies. I get it. But this was just a universal shoulder shrug from around the league. But now conspiracy Zach, who just doesn't really exist. But seam saying, yes, seam saying that yesterday that there's no other domino here. They had to know the clutch people, that this was probably coming today so that I'm like, you could put the pieces together. Like, had the decision already been made. And they're sort of laying the groundwork for, hey, there was never anything to see here.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you believe the whole thing with Cleveland? I'm always going to think he was looking at Cleveland first, and I think that that was down the road in a lot of different ways. And I'm never going to not believe that. And I don't think he liked the roster the way they had it. And the Harden piece. I do feel like that the Harden opting out, which was the wink, wink from last year, but then no new deal. And then there was always like a little buzz, like maybe he could get him. And I think there was some Phoenix stuff. At one point they went for Dallas with Kyrie, and Dallas, like, no, thanks, we'll keep Kyrie. I do wonder if he was just like, I'm not going to sign because Cleveland only had the minimum, right? I'm going to sign with the minimum for Cleveland and I probably can't win there anyway. This doesn't seem like the way to go out. This is like the, the juiciest team. Right. Golden State would have been the most fun for us. I said on Wednesday's pod, I just didn't see the Miami thing. I didn't get it. I didn't get him and Giannis and band together. I just don't like the fit. This feels like a better basketball fit if we have Embiid. And that'll be the question.

[Zach Lowe]

And. And I guess the. The accidental YouTube thing in Miami was actually an accidental YouTube thing or the greatest fumble in the history of sports. I don't know. But like, looks to. Looks to have actually been an accident. I think like Golden State was going to be too old. I think personally you're underrating the Cleveland team just because we're all sort of like just the division of Harden dribbling the air out of the ball and everyone being like, hey man, we have LeBron on the team. We have Donovan Mitchell on like, why do we have to play. Play like this? I think that actually would have been a pretty stacked team and a. And a legit title contender. This team is a. I mean, if Embiid can give them anything in the playoffs, they're a contender to get to the finals for sure. I just have no faith. Forget the season. Forget the first 82. We don't have any evidence that he can stay healthy for the last 20. And those are the most intense, hardest playing games where they need him the most. And maybe they just can lower his minutes in those games to a reasonable amount because they have so much talent around him. But their backup center situation is just okay. Like, I like Bona. Nick Nurse has never seemed to trust Bona.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, but here's the thing. They're going to be able to get February guys and buyout guys and people want to play with this team right now. They on FanDuel. They're 10 to 1 and win the title. They have the fourth best odds. They are plus 3. 80 to win the east and they are minus 130 to win 50 plus games and plus 210 to win 55 plus games.

[Zach Lowe]

Are they. Is that updated already?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, they move. They move fast. Listen, the Cleveland thing, you and I are just going to disagree on that. I don't like that team and I think they were trying. He wasn't going to go there for the minimum. They're trying to trade Strus or Schroeder. Nobody wants those guys. Especially in this new second April CBA era. The hardened things seem very complicated because they'd done the wink, wink with him and he goes to Philly Instead, you mentioned the playoff piece. I was talking about this with somebody a couple days ago about the second and third rounds of the playoffs are the young guy rounds where that's where you're playing a lot. And you could see Philly in the Boston series in round one. And Bead plays three games or three and a half games, that Boston series, but then goes to that next round and all of a sudden you gotta go and he couldn't hold up. This is still. Those are the young guy rounds, but Philly's covered in that with the three guys they have that aren't Embiid or LeBron like Jalen is one of the most durable stars we've had in the last 20 years. That was one of the, one of the things I would always make the case for him. Maxey, I think, either led the league in minutes or was second last year. And Edgecombe played a crazy amount of minutes for rookies, so they're covered all the other way. How do you feel Jaylen Brown feels about this though? All right, well, what a summer for him.

[Zach Lowe]

Two things. Number one, I agree with you. He is almost the most interesting character in this whole drama that has played out. And I'm going to get back to that in a second. I mean, the thing about the east is Detroit is going to win a lot of games and be a tough out. No matter how you feel about their offense or their offseason, they're not going to be an easy out there in a lot of games. Boston is still going to win a lot of games. Despite coming off as one of the quote unquote losers of the offseason. The Knicks are the Knicks. The Cavs are going to win a lot of games. The Heat have Giannis for whatever that's worth. And it's worth something. Toronto seems at least pretty darn likely to have Kawhi Leonard. My point is, I'm not sure how many rounds you get in the 2027 Eastern Conference to just be like, yeah, we don't have to play our all out rotation for this entire series. I think it's going to be a tough battle all the way through. I think I couldn't wait for you to bring up Jalen Brown because I think he's the most fascinating character. He was already the character of the off season and now even more so because not only is he not the number one option which he dreamed of, and now on a team where he has two former MVPs in his starting five and an ascendant all NBA guard Who's going to have the ball a lot. He, one of the MVPs on the team, plays essentially his similar or almost same position. And stylistically, although he's in a different universe as a passer from Jaylen Brown, like they're physically sort of similar in how they play. And so the, the overlap issue for him just got even more severe. And I'm trying to picture like, all right, so is there like a LeBron, Jalen Brown two man game that's going to happen? What is Jalen Brown doing when it's like a maxi and B pick and roll and LeBron's attacking to close out, or LeBron's posting up, where's Jalen Brown? And smart players and talented players figure all this stuff out. But it is strange to think about, like what's, what's his role going to be on the team?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, the closest you would come to this was like the 24 Celtics when they had all those good players, when they had Porzingis and Drew Holiday was there. And you know, Jalen would get his five minutes at the top of the second quarter and the fourth quarter when Tatum sat. But last year his usage rate was 36.2. Right. Maxi was 29.4, LeBron was 27.2. And then Embiid's not in here. Cause I guess he didn't play enough games. But Embiid is another one that when Embiid's in the game, the whole offense seems like it revolves around him. So you have four guys. Jalen is going to get the short straw, it feels like all the time. And he's going to have to do the. All right. I guess I'm basically a glorified role player. I wonder, is he on the team in October? Did they flip him Jaylen Brown? Is that possible?

[Zach Lowe]

So I just want to be you. You've already, in the span of 15 minutes, traded Jaylen Brown.

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't trade him. I'm asking if he's on the team in October.

[Zach Lowe]

Traded Embiid for Anthony Davis and put the cat. Put LeBron on the Cavs in 2020. You're on fire.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm on fire. My coffee hasn't kicked in yet, but is it. Would you bet your life he's on the Sixers in October 20th?

[Zach Lowe]

I wouldn't bet my. Don't bet my. Don't bet your life. I keep telling you this. Just word of advice, don't bet your life in any circumstance. I would bet lots of money that he's on the team in October, February. Now you have four months of, like, we get to see how this works. The trade deadline comes, whatever like that. I mean, who knows what happens then? But in October, I would expect Jaylen Brown to be on the team.

[Bill Simmons]

I would, too. I'm just mentioning.

[Zach Lowe]

But it is to your point.

[Bill Simmons]

What if he said, I want an extension or I'm going to be super unhappy the whole year?

[Zach Lowe]

You know, I talked about this on my pod yesterday about extension candidates. I mean, he's got. It's just like he's these guys who have three years. I understand the tool is helpful for teams and players, and it's helpful to have as much flexibility using it. The extension tool, Three years left on your contract just seems like. Let's just. It's too early in every case. That's not like Jokic or Shai or Luka or Wembanyama. It's like, can we just wait 18 months, man? You have three years left on your deal. Can we not talk about it? And can you not take that as like a personal affront? It's just a reality, but who knows? That's what I say. If I'm like Gansey. I'm saying we're not talking about that right now. Sorry.

[Bill Simmons]

The Davis one's amazing because he's got this year and then a player option for next year, and he hasn't been healthy in two years, but he's like, I don't know, I need an extension. It's like, do you. Could we see one year before. Before we have to up up you for more years? Plus, you're the one with the power anyway with the player option.

[Zach Lowe]

How about how we all be reasonable and we'll say, okay, so let's tear up your player option. We'll give you a two year, $100 million extension. How do you feel? And he would go nuts and Clutch would go nuts and they'd be all insulted about it. And I'd be like, okay, so you're in your early to mid-30s and you don't play two third. You play a third of you. You miss a third of the games every year. Like, why am I just. No brainering an extension with you at the max. I'm not.

[Bill Simmons]

Anyway, Rich said something about if you paid attention, all the clues. He said something like that last week. If you paid attention, all the clues were laid out for what the decision was going to be, which you could have interpreted in all of these different ways. But now, looking back, you mentioned Myers went on that podcast, right? That's pretty Interesting. He wanted to win and also be happy. What were the other clues we can take from that they laid out?

[Zach Lowe]

What are we talking about here? Is the whiteboard. Is the whiteboard like usual suspects? Does it say like Skokie, Illinois on there somewhere?

[Bill Simmons]

What do we miss by going to

[Zach Lowe]

drop the coffee floor? We're going to drop the coffee cup on the floor. Like, like do you think what's on the bottom?

[Bill Simmons]

It was Kobayashi. I wonder what the other clues were. I'd love to know what I missed.

[Zach Lowe]

I guess I got to go spend some time. I hear. Look, I can call all the GMs and agents involved in the next four hours or I could spend time deconstructing the whiteboard and like listening for. You know how Steve Kerr. Did you read the story that Steve Kerr like dropped an entire Taylor Swift song into press conferences this year? Like one word lyric at a time. So maybe we need to, maybe we need to go back and listen to some podcasts and see if we can hear a clue all put together.

[Bill Simmons]

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[Zach Lowe]

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[Bill Simmons]

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[Bill Simmons]

Something. Well, so LeBron has the 12 year old daughter who's lived here her whole life. So I like, are they going to, is his family going to move or is he going to be like going back and forth? That that's, are they going to live in New York or who knows? That's going to be a whole thing. And then, then him and Jaylen Brown is another piece of this Jaylen Brown, the famous thing about him sitting at summer league and basically saying, you know, Bronnie's not good or whatever, he wasn't fair because it was the cameras catching him. And then LeBron kind of made mention of it last Year. But I assume Bronnie is going to end up on the Sixers at some point.

[Zach Lowe]

I was going to say how did we get 20min. Answering the what about Bronnie Question.

[Bill Simmons]

I just assume he's, he's probably on his way cause they, The Lakers have 16 guys. Anyway, geometry wise, I give you Embiid, LeBron, Jalen, Maxine, Edgecomb as a closing five. There's three minutes left in a playoff game. Walk me through a play and where everybody is on the court.

[Zach Lowe]

I mean Embiid is setting a high screen or at the nail probably and it's a two man game with, I mean again like I don't really know. I, I, it's a two man game maybe with LeBron so that I can use Maxi in some off ball stuff with Jalen Brown and, and throw some size issues at the other team. Like they'll have a little guy on Maxi. Maybe we can get a switch that way. But it's there, it's going to be.

[Bill Simmons]

So VJs in the corner regardless.

[Zach Lowe]

DJs probably in the corner or setting some off ball stuff if Nick Nurse is getting creative and when it gets

[Bill Simmons]

down to Jalen's spending some time in the corner. Yeah, I mean LeBron and Maxi kind of switching, playing off Embiid and then if Embiid's not out there, you could even go a little small ball with LeBron and, or Bona like whatever. But yeah, that geometry, there could be two guys in the corner that are going to be like shit, I'm in the corner.

[Zach Lowe]

I wonder if, when on days Embiid doesn't play, if there is some potential for like LeBron at the 5 kind of lineups. They're, they're built to try that out. It's always those always sound better in theory than they are in reality. The other thing is like, you know, Joel Embiid had back to back seasons when he shot 37% on threes and one and two years ago when you shot 39% in limited games, if, if that now that's all sandwiched around 33%, 30%, 33% and no one's ever going to treat him like a DEFCON 1 threat out there. But if he can find that stroke again, you have a little bit more flexibility in where you can put him. It doesn't have to be at the nail, it doesn't have to be. We're running through stuff through. But what happens to his post op game to me is a really interesting question here, like how often Are you just dumping the ball into Embiid when these other four guys are on the floor? Does it make sense to play that way? Sometimes it will, but sometimes it won't.

[Bill Simmons]

And if, and if you're talking to Vijay Edgecombe about this, you're like, dude, just practice your corner threes. Just take 100 million of them, take 200,000 a day, and this is going to be a two year thing. You're going to be a better place for this. You're going to be in big games and it'll all pay off in the long run. But he's probably the biggest loser from a growth standpoint because he just, he basically just turns into a three and D guard now, I think.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, I think he's also so good that he'll find ways to ma. To stretch that 3 and D role in the half court to its boundaries. LeBron, with the Lakers and particularly with Luca, leaned a little bit more into transition. Fast break. Remember, LeBron was known as a slow it down, chess master kind of player. Jaylen Brown is a demon in transition, particularly as a cutter.

[Bill Simmons]

He wants to play that way.

[Zach Lowe]

Everybody but Embiid in that starting five is meant to play fast, like super fast. And I think that's okay for Embiid. Like he can trail the play and whatever. And that's where Vijay can run into eight points a game. I mean, like, just, just like that. So I think there's, there's something to be said there too.

[Bill Simmons]

You know what else is going to be really fun? I think this is going to be a really fun team to watch. And this is immediately the, this is the team I have to monitor the first two months team of all of the 30 teams we have that are different than they were last year. But VJ is so good at both, like crashing the offensive boards when somebody else shoots, but then also those little sneaky back cuts he does from the side. And LeBron loves guys like that. So that'll be, that'll be. I think LeBron's going to love playing with him. And I, you know, him and Maxi, I think they've known each other for a long time and they have the rich Paul connection. Embiid will be the wild card. You know, we didn't mention though, this is unbelievable for the Boston Philly rivalry. The best rivalry in the league, the most important rivalry the league's ever had. Everybody says, Celtics, Lakers. I've said this a million times. Celtics, Sixers is the most historic, awesome rivalry the league has. They've crossed paths every Decade in some way, some more than others, like the 60s, more than the 70s and shit like that. But every year they've had battles, and they had some battles this decade, but now you have. The Celtics have traded Jaylen Brown to philly. You have LeBron, who was their biggest foil from, I don't know, 2008 through 2013, where they were the big bully with him, and then he flipped it and he was the big bully with them. He doesn't like Boston. That's been his rival and the team that really tried to break them down, and now he's going against them. And these are two fan bases that have gone at it. Philly beat them last year and came back. I feel like all of these games will be on national tv, right?

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, well, I mean, Adam Silver made that pretty clear when he was like, hey, man, can you. Can you make a decision? Yeah, yeah. Philly, Boston, all time classic rivalry. How about LeBron being back in the east and the state of all the teams involved. Puts like LeBron could face the Cavs in a playoff series. LeBron could face the Heat in a playoff series.

[Bill Simmons]

These are his. The team that he owns. Is he still paying rent on Toronto or.

[Zach Lowe]

No, no, he owns Toronto. He doesn't have.

[Bill Simmons]

He's paid out. Yeah. So you have Miami, Cleveland, Toronto. He has history with. We didn't mention the Knicks. I mean, Boston,

[Zach Lowe]

this is. This is east is on a heater like we have not seen in the last 25 years in the NBA. It's the superior conference, top to bottom right now. Even if you want to say the two best teams are in the west, it's the top to bottom, better conference. And we've got, you know, a lot of trade drama. We got players moving East. We got, you know, Kawhi probably moving east, LeBron moving east. The east is on fire.

[Bill Simmons]

I like how you said probably. Yeah. If you go to the. To the finals, odds on FanDuel 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12. Eight of the 12 are in the east for the top for the highest odds. When was the last time that happened? And we didn't mention the pacers, who are 40 to 1 to win the finals. And I, I think could be. Could be pretty sneaky as well with Zubots there and a healthy halberd and they added Uber and all this stuff. So, Nick Sixers, what's. What's going to be a better rivalry? Knicks Sixers or Celtics Sixers this season?

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, it's Celtics, Celtic, the Jalen Brown stuff. In Boston is going to be off the charts. The atmosphere, the. The Brown versus Tatum, the first time they go one on one against each other, if Tatum's ever under the rim, when Brown is like winding up for a dunk like, that stuff's going to be irresistible. There's so much tension.

[Bill Simmons]

But Nick Sixers will be pretty great too, though.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. LeBron in the Garden. Knick Sixers, they've had recent playoff history. They had a really great series two seasons ago. And yeah, I mean, those are all great, Rob. These are. These. We have all or most of the iconic franchises in the Eastern Conference other than the Bulls are really like going all out for it right now. And that's like, pretty incredible.

[Bill Simmons]

So I thought of one other clue. Ruben has. You know, LeBron did the fanatics fest stuff and Ruben has the Sixers connection. So maybe that was another clue. So, okay, ring chasing. This isn't a ring chase because he signed as a free agent with the team that wanted him. But he could win another ring with this team. Do you think he will?

[Zach Lowe]

I would, I would always go, no. I mean, you're basically asking field versus Sixers. I'm going field, like aggressively, given Embiid's health issues. But it's, it's, it's. Of all the options out there, short of like LeBron signs with Oklahoma City for the minimum, this is about as good as it gets. But no, I don't. I would bet against them winning a title.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Because the, the bar would be Oklahoma City and San Antonio the next two years. Now San Antonio, if they have Embiid, it's one of the few teams where they could throw a guy with size at Wemby and at least make them think a little bit. And then OKC is just a nightmare to play against. But OKC's weaker now. You know, they had to get rid of some depth. They're relying on rookies that, you know, in second year guys, the rookies did not look good in the summer league. We'll see. I really. You and I went to those Indiana games two years ago when Lou Dort and Caruso basically swung that series. Lou Dort's gone. Lou Dort's only 27. It's not like he's 40, you know, and they're a little smaller. They'll be a little smaller in the perimeter. And this, this Philly team, when everybody's playing that like this, size is a bitch. Like, Jalen's a big ass small forward who can go at basically every position, right. And scored 29 points a game last year. LeBron can be an absolute to garden and Bead can overpower anybody. So there's going to be nights where I don't know, I like it. I think this was a smart move. I, I, I, I thought it was no chance of happening. I made fun of House the other day. There's no way he's going to go to Philly. That's ridiculous. Why would he do that? I get it, I get it. From a basketball standpoint, this is a smart move.

[Zach Lowe]

It's interesting I said this with Howard on my pod a couple weeks ago because he was of the ilk of when Wendy said on tv it just feel the vibes would feel funny if he went to Philadelphia. Awkward. Whatever he used to, Howard was on that, on that side of things. And I said honestly, I think it would be kind of cool because whatever you want to say about LeBron, step by step by step in his career, he has not adhered to any sort of traditional superstar career track. He's chosen his own path for his own reasons. Like Miami was a shock. Leaving Cleveland the way he did with the decision was a shock. Going back to Cleveland was kind of a bold mid career move. Leaving Bosh and Wade, going to the Lakers because he just felt like, you know, yeah, I, he probably thought, I can get Anthony Davis to come here, we can revive this iconic franchise that's fallen on hard times. And he just really wanted to live in Los Angeles and play for the Lakers. And I think this sort of going to a team that feels random to his history, to his trajectory is actually kind of in step with the way he's handled his career. And I think he just, he, like when you were saying maybe he'll just sign in December, January. I just think he loves being on a team. I think he likes getting to the arena early. I think he likes being around teammates. And I think he just looks at this and is like, this will be fun. Like whatever, whatever comes of this. This is an interesting group of players in a big sports city. This will be fun. Let's give it a go.

[Bill Simmons]

Also, the New York City piece of this can't be underrated. He can live in New York City if he wants. Right.

[Zach Lowe]

I, I mean it's, I, I, I think other Sixers have done that in the past.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, but he could have like his family could be in New York City and he could have a place in Philly and bounce back and forth. So he keeps the big city thing. We'll see if he moves his Whole family there. Listen, this is the, this. I think out of all the options, Golden State would have been really fun from a, from the expendable standpoint and just having those guys playing together. But this was the most fun basketball option. The more we talk about it, I just think this has the most variables every which way, including, like, there's 2012 Lakers potential too. Where this looks awesome on paper and there are all these reasons for it. But you have LeBron, who's 41, who with a ton of miles on him, God only knows when he's going to break down someday, and Embiid, who never plays, and Jaylen Brown on a new team, trying to fit his way. Like there's some, there's an unhappy version of this too. And I, I don't know which one I would bet on, to be honest.

[Zach Lowe]

I mean, look, there was an unhappy version of the Knicks in January and they won the championship. Like say February, like how about April? It's. These things are not easy to do when you're juggling a bunch of guys who are stars or think they're stars or whatever. The thing is, and it's always challenging and you always have to find the right style of play. And you, everyone's got to sacrifice. Like your point about Edgecomb, if I'm Nick Nurse, I'm going to VJ and saying, hey, look man, you're a second year player, you're, you're going to walk in hopefully to 18 points a game strong, solid number for a second year guard on a loaded team. This could be a lot of nights when Embiid doesn't play or when LeBron doesn't play. Those are nights you can go for 25, 28, whatever you explode for. And by the way, being on national TV all the time and being part of a winning team is good for everybody, including you. So just enjoy it. This isn't your permanent lot in life and, and go from there. That's just the, the. But, yeah, I mean, look, it all comes down to Embiid, right? The whole thing comes down to Embiid. Because I think if, if he's, if he's not healthy in the playoffs, I don't think this foursome plus what they have on the team is good enough to win a championship. If he, by whatever miracle is healthy for enough of the playoffs, this team can go toe to toe with anybody. I just don't believe that he can be healthy for four straight playoff series. I just don't. I won't believe it until I see it. Happen he still has not made the conference finals.

[Bill Simmons]

Would you rather have Embiid for the team that the Sixers have now or a Gafford, P.J. washington, Klay Thompson, threesome.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, my God. It's. I mean, the fact that that's a fair question is just such a sad state of affairs given. I still, I just want Embiid. I want Embiid. Both. I just. Look, I get the, I get the argument. I get what you're saying. Depth pieces. Clay. Just bring Clay in as part of this too, like another all time legend. Let me get. I want to go down swinging one more time with Embiid. You know, Philly, the whole history has you get me another. Let's just.

[Bill Simmons]

I have two LeBron years and we'll see. We'll see how he looks by near the end of the second year. But at least for this year, with the roster and the depth, this is the best possible situation for Embiid where it's like, we're just going to be super careful with you. This is, we're going to be. This will be. You'll be like the vase and risky business. We'll be, we'll be carrying like this the entire season. Not putting any, any miles on you at all. Just trying to get you to April, May and June and even in the playoffs. You know, I remember Chris Ryan when they went to round two and Chris Ryan's like, I would bench a bead tonight against the Knicks. I'd bench him for game one, throw it away. And they ended up playing him and he's. He just broke down as it went along. They could be in situations where he just plays five of the seven games and they look and they, hey, LeBron and Jalen, you're carrying us tonight. And do it that way.

[Zach Lowe]

It's possible. It's possible. I mean, we mentioned it earlier. It's. It's possible the east is going to be tough, but they at least have enough like superstar ball dominance cover or, or, or pseudo cover for him that it's. If you go up 2 0, maybe you can take that kind of, that kind of risk.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm stunned for the Cavs, and I just don't think they could figure out how to pull it off. I still feel like that's where this was going to end up. Moe's going to feel that way. But they couldn't trade the dudes. And it all goes back to that weird DeAndre Hunter contract that they did, that weird extension they did with him that they then had to turn into Schroeder, and that was the extra 14, 15 million on the Lakers side. Just quickly, if they had managed the LeBron piece of that a little better and somehow been able to. Kept to keep LeBron there with Luca, Kessler and Reaves, plus patching together, free agent stuff, I don't like that team as much as this Philly team,

[Zach Lowe]

the Lakers with LeBron. Yeah, with everything else they did, Luca and Reeves, I'd have to think harder about it. It feels almost like a wash to me again, because I just can't. I can't factor in. I mean, I guess Kessler's as much an injury risk as Embiid, although it's been a recurring shoulder thing more than anything else. But, yeah, I'd have to think more about it.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, those are all my preliminary thoughts. You're going to do a podcast on Sunday with some deeper dive thoughts, and I'll. I'll do something middle of the week next week. I want to. Want to marinate on this and think about this. But I will tell you this. The NBA is more fun today. This was. This is an incredibly fun outcome. There's Robbery's Galore. LeBron's back in the east, and we'll see. I would say. Who would you say has. Who would you say has the most at stake with this? That's not LeBron. Would you say Embiid? Like, this is it? Will Embiid ever be on a better team than this?

[Zach Lowe]

We're focusing on Philly only. Most at stake. Yeah, it's. It's. It's Embiid.

[Bill Simmons]

It's got to be Embiid, right? Everybody else. Jalen's won a title. Maxi has his whole career at him. So does vj. Nick Nurse has won a title. This is like, hey, Embiid. This is on a platter. Now. You have somebody who was sixth MVP last year in your team. You have a franchise guy. You have LeBron. You hit the lottery with Vjooqic.

[Zach Lowe]

And let's be fair to Embiid when we bring up the health stuff, a lot of the playoff injuries have been really fluky injuries. Pascal Siakam, elbows in the orbital bone at the end of a game that's probably over, Bell's palsy strikes him and all this. But the knee stuff, highlighted by when Kaminga fell on his knee two seasons ago, that's becoming the scary recurring thing that he just can't seem to shake for any prolonged period of time. And you can see when he comes back, he's almost Playing with a certain trepidation about it that he has to get past that every time he comes back. So that's just the fair dossier of like Joel Embiid. And barring some sort of transaction where they get a really another high quality center, I think they're going to need him to get where they need to go. And so it's. It feels unfair to be like the pressure's on Joel Embiid, your playoff legacy, when a lot of his playoff legacy is he just gets hurt. And I don't know what there's. What, what that. What there's to be done about that.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think either of us thought LeBron could win a title if he was one of the two best players on a team at this stage of his career. Right?

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. I mean, it's two. It's. It's. He's 41 years old. It's too much.

[Bill Simmons]

He'd have to be the third best player. In this case, he's drifting between three and four. Best possible situation. Biggest loser today, Daryl Morey. He just held on for two more months.

[Zach Lowe]

That's a tough one.

[Bill Simmons]

He would have. He would have. He would have done the Jaylen Brown trade and then ended up with LeBron and been like, this was his dream of putting a whole bunch of stars in the same team.

[Zach Lowe]

I got a.

[Bill Simmons]

And I would say Golden State, too, would be the other one because they got out of that Draymond deal. They did nothing. They were just basically pause. But the entire summer. And now I think they have 10 players in their roster, including Jimmy Butler, who can't run yet.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, I'm checking my phone here because I keep thinking we're going to get the flurry of Harden resigns, Draymond resigns, all these other deals, but nothing has come on. I. I also just think, like, not that he was ever going to go there or really even entertainment entertain it, but Jokic and Denver just sort of sitting there in stasis while all of this happens around them. And maybe Peyton Watson comes back and that's their big sort of move so far. But, you know, it's. It feels like afterthought is too strong of a word, but they've got some catching up to do.

[Bill Simmons]

Might have missed the window.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Or the window may have closed. They got one title out of it. I don't. The Peyton Watson, any scenario where he's making more than $15 million a year does not really pass the sniff test for me. Just with the way the. These middle. The way the middle class numbers are. I just don't understand who's giving him 20.

[Zach Lowe]

So you're saying Peyton Watson deserves Gary Trent Jr. Money is what you're saying.

[Bill Simmons]

We're going to take a break. Zach's going to do way more LeBron stuff on Sunday. We're going to come back to a 2011 draft Rewatchables. Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a [e-mail] upfront payment of

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$45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for 12 month plan required $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. Me slow when network is busy.

[Bill Simmons]

See terms the 2011 redraftables Ironically, 2011 was right after LeBron lost in the finals with Miami to Dirk. We had a lockout looming in July. We had no owner for the New Orleans Pelicans. We had the first month of Grantland. A great website that you eventually worked for. I did. And we had Cleveland with the first pick after mysteriously winning the lottery thanks to a Clippers Baron Davis dump trade a year after they lost LeBron to Miami. Conspiracy Bill has always been very focused on that lottery. This turned out to be the Kawhi, Kyrie, Clay, Jimmy Butler draft. We did not know this at the time. What we did know, we had a first round that had two Lithuanian guys, a Turkish guy, a Congolese guy, a Serbian guy, a Czech guy, a Latvian guy, a Canadian guy and a Croatian guy. We had five top 10 picks in a row named Ennis, Tristan, Jonas, Jan and Bismack. We had Charlotte with the seventh and ninth picks and somehow they didn't end up with Klay Thompson or Kawhi Leonard. We had a huge trade in the middle of the draft, Kawhi Leonard getting taken by Indiana and then traded for George Hill from San Antonio, which had dramatic effects on the 13 and 14 playoffs and led to one of your best Grant Lamb pieces ever. And then I wrote my draft diary at the end. I have a feeling we'll remember the 2011 draft as the foreigner draft. That was the takeaway. Now looking back, this is a 10 out of 10 batshit crazy draft with where guys went. It's a 10. It's just a 10 with the four best guys. The draft went 1st, 11th, 15th and 30th.

[Zach Lowe]

It's also a draft that's very close to my heart because as you said, it sort of dovetails with me transitioning into full time NBA media. This would have been my second year, I think full time. But it's. These are guys where it's like I've written about a lot of them over the years. I feel like I've like, they're like my, my cohort almost. So I have a soft spot for a lot of these gu.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, I'll give you the first pick. Go.

[Zach Lowe]

I this was easier than I thought. I'm going to take Kawhi Leonard and I'm not really going to think about it too hard. Despite the injuries, the drama, the aspiration scandal, all of it. And, and the thing about, you know, you mentioned the top four guys and you nailed them. They're going to go top four in some order. They've all had enough health issues that, you know, they've all scored. Kawhi has the fewest career points at 16,500. But Kyrie, who's number one is 18,400. So there's not that much of a difference in terms of just sort of the raw scoring. And Kawhi's got seven all NBA appearances. He's the only one of this four that has any first team all NBA appearances, two championships, two finals MVPs. The best two way player by a decent margin and was the best player

[Bill Simmons]

alive at the end of 2019.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, I think it's a pretty easy choice that I'll take away.

[Bill Simmons]

I had him number one as well. Also defensive player of the year twice. Runner up MVP in 2016. 3 year peak of 26, 7 and 4. 4 year playoff peak of 29, 9 and 5 over 60 games. Best player on the 2019 Champs Finals MVP in 2014. What's interesting about this draft, if we had done this even after 2000, maybe 15, we would have said Kyrie, that was the number one pick, right?

[Zach Lowe]

I think so, yeah. I don't even know who else it would be.

[Bill Simmons]

I wrote this huge piece for Grant Lynn in 2014 about what a crapshoot the draft was.

[Zach Lowe]

I reread it in preparation for this.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I did 20 years of drafts about and I redrafted basically all of this and I did the 2011 draft. So I did it three years later and I had Kawhi first, which I was surprised by. I had Kyrie Irving second. I had Clay third and I had Chandler Parsons fourth and Kenneth Farid fifth. Jimmy Butler was 11th on this list. So that goes to show you how much all this stuff can change. We should have mentioned before you made the first pick, we should at least do the lottery for this draft. Right? Cause we had just so people remember it if they don't remember it when it happened. Kyrie went first, Minnesota took Derek Williams second. Can't wait to talk about him later. Enes Cantor went third to Utah. Now Ennis Freedom Thompson to Cleveland at 4. Valanch Shunas to Toronto at 5. Jan Vesely at 6. Who won the draft because he had the hottest looking girlfriend probably in the history of the draft. It was a big, big part, part of my draft diary. Bismack Biyombo seventh, ends up in Charlotte. Brandon Knight eighth to Detroit. Kemba Walker ninth in Charlotte. Jim or Fredette Jim or buy Jim or for that stock. Do you ever call your broker on him or. No. Okay.

[Zach Lowe]

No. Had no stock.

[Bill Simmons]

He went 10th, ended up in Sacramento. Who is not. Did not have a vec yet. That was still the Maloofs.

[Zach Lowe]

You're telling me Sacramento messed up the draft?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I'm telling you that.

[Zach Lowe]

That's a draft day trade, by the way, and an extremely depressing one.

[Bill Simmons]

Really one of the most depressing three team draft day trades we've ever had. It was Sacramento, Milwaukee and I think Charlotte. Klay Thompson 11th, Golden State, Burks 12 to Utah. We had the Morris twins go back to back. Markief to Phoenix, Marcus to Houston and then Indiana takes Kawhi Leonard 15th. And in my draft diary, which I had some, some huge wins and some huge misses after Burks went 12th, I wrote how has Kawhi Lender not been taken yet? What am I missing? The Morris twins went 13 and 14. I wrote San Diego's Kawhi Leonard is officially our how the hell did he slide to the middle of the draft guy. Which doesn't happen every year, but when it happens. And I put in parentheses Granger, Lawson, Hibbert. You know, as it's happening, he should have been a lottery pick. He's a natural small forward. So I had that right. I did not have the first pick of the draft right. Which I will go second here and I'm going to take Kyrie Irving. I was a big. This is one of my biggest draft misses of the last 20 plus years. I was in the let's take Derek Williams here camp for Cleveland. Derrick Williams had come off a really good Arizona season and just Seemed like a natural stretch. 4. He shot 59% from three in college his sophomore year.

[Zach Lowe]

That's a real stat. 59%.

[Bill Simmons]

59%. He made 1.1 and took 1.9 overall. Made 1.1 and just seemed like. And was really good in Arizona. And Kyrie, I think had played 10 Duke games and gotten hurt. But Cleveland took Kyrie and I said, I see him settling somewhere between an extremely poor man's Chris Paul and a rich man's Mike Connolly. Will he ever make an All Star team? It's possible. Maybe one or two. Big miss. Tough one,

[Zach Lowe]

I think. Kyrie, I was interested. I had a feeling you were going to give me the number one pick and I knew who I was going to take without doing much research about it. By the way, that Kawhi trade, it's an all time fundraiser. I went back and I read that piece that I wrote when I did a sort of tick tock of it. There's so many things that were going on that I had forgotten about. Like Woj had reported that the spurs were actually sort of exploring trading Tony Parker to move up higher in the

[Bill Simmons]

draft for that was the Tony Parker getting shot summer. Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Then. Then like the, the GMs are on the record in the piece being like, well, you know, we got. We got to go time. And the spurs decided they didn't just need the Kawhi pick, they wanted Davis Bertan or they wanted the 42nd pick in that draft that became Davis Bertans and an international prospect named Arizona Lorbeck. And they might not do the trade unless they get both of them.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow.

[Zach Lowe]

And. And Indiana was like both of them. That seems like a lot. I guess we'll do it. Like all these things, all these like, all these things can fall apart like so easily in the moment that it's kind of amazing that a deal like this gets done. But yeah, Kyrie, I was interested to see who you take second if you would flirt with Jimmy Butler. Kyrie, I think is the clear second guy. I don't. I feel like we just, we have had very limited glimpses of him given his stature of like him being the guy in a, in an NBA offense, like undisputed the guy. And I just wonder how we'd think of him if we. If. If like that was mostly Cleveland pre LeBron coming back when they were just a bad team. Yeah, I think he's just an absolutely sensational offensive that in his prime, if he ever got handed the keys to an offense, we might think of him a little Differently.

[Bill Simmons]

I think he felt that way too, which is why he wanted to leave. Second best guy in a championship team. Three finals teams, one second team all NBA 2/3 playoffs. Career 23 a game, 39% from 314 seasons. Only 779 games. But a big one of one factor with him. I think he's one of those guys. He's, he's way better than a Kyrie Irving was a problem social media video guy. But he will be a guy that I think as the years pass will be even better as some of the stuff. How just his ability to go left hand, right hand in traffic, double clutch, triple clutch. And he made one of the biggest shots of the century. Right? That's it.

[Zach Lowe]

We were both there.

[Bill Simmons]

They. Which one? No, I wasn't there for that one. You were there for them. Yeah, but one, you know, won a title. I thought he was the clear second choice. And I'll take the L on that one. You have the third pick. Who do you have? This is a good one.

[Zach Lowe]

Without hesitation, I will take Jimmy Butler. It's him or Clay and obviously both have had some injury issues. Clay is more severe and traumatic than Julian Butler's. Jimmy's had some conflagrations in some of his stops. In all of his stops almost. And Clay is a four time champion. Jimmy Butler is not a champion yet. I just think head to head the defense, the size, just the, the all around scoring ability. I, I would put him, I would take him over Clay in a vacuum. With apologies to one of the greatest shooters of all time and game six Clay and clutch performances. It's, it's, it's a debate because of what Clay has done on the biggest stage so many times. But you know, part of the reason he got to do that was that he was surrounded by one of the 12 greatest players of all time and just the perfect nucleus for him. So I'll take, I'll take Jimmy Butler. I have a feeling you would go and Clay here, but I'm going Jimmy butler.

[Bill Simmons]

It was 3A, 3B to me. I think if you're going Jimmy. He was the best player on two finals teams that didn't win the finals. But, but he carried two teams to the finals which I don't know if Clay could have done as a number one guy. And I think that's the difference. Jimmy had one top 10, one second team all NBA, three top 15s, 2020 playoffs, 22, 7 and 6, two year playoff peak 27, 7 and 539 games, career playoffs, 216 and 5, 130 games. The chemistry stuff with him is really dicey and I think has to be. That was one of the things. There were two things that almost swung it to me for Clay. One is Clay is one of the great shooters of all time. I think Clay gets unfairly dinged because that five year warriors one was so grueling. The entire team literally broke down at the end and Clay broke down once and for all at the tail end of it. After five years when they're playing, I mean what did they play over? Over 500 games in 5 years?

[Zach Lowe]

Lots of games.

[Bill Simmons]

It's one of the most grueling, awful stretches any team's had and it's a reason why we don't. We will never see a Bill Russell Celtics again because no team can do that for more than four to five years. His five year peak, 22 four and three 42% from three. You mentioned the Klay Thompson game in OKC that saved them in 2016. Second best player on the 15 champs, third best on the 17 and 18 champs. Basically the second best or third best guy in a team that went 20739 over three years and won 25 games in a row and had a 73 win record at one point. Couple shooting things with him really quick. So there's only four guys ever who have made 2000 threes and shot 40% from three. He's one of the four. Curry Rao and Quay Thompson. Weirdly Kyle Korver. He's also the only guy ever to have at least 400 threes and shoot 40% in the playoffs. He's 501 threes in the playoffs. Even if you're going 175 threes or more. That's only him. Steve Nash, Ray Allen and Duncan Robinson are the only four guys who did that. So I actually think he's a greater shooter than maybe people realize. And he was also an awesome defensive player and was never the same after those two injuries which happened. He blew out his knee and then he blew out the Achilles within what, eight months of each other and was just never the same guy after that. I think this could have been like a Ray Allen 15 year career of just him being awesome.

[Zach Lowe]

Ray Allen is. Ray Allen is the right name because we never got to see the Klay Thompson version of Seattle. Ray Allen, who is the number one option and actually kind of fared better than maybe people thought he would as someone who was pigeonholed as a shooter more than a scorer and a distributor. And I think Klay Thompson could have approximated that if he ever. I don't know if the team would have won quite as much as the warriors won but, but when he was in his prime, his shot was so lethal that it made every other part of his game better because you had to press him so high on the floor you had to overreact to him every time he touched the ball that he could have just like he didn't need to be the most explosive driver to beat people off the dribble because they were already basically beaten by the time they were guarding him. And he was an okay passer, but to your point, just an absolute killer as a shooter, a beloved teammate, a grinder. Turned himself into a very good defensive player. He has an all defensive team appearance I believe on, on his resume. Never heard any arena I've ever been in, maybe with the exception of MSG after the Anunoby tip than Oracle was when he came out to shoot those free throws in the finals in game six when he was on one of the great heaters of his career and then got fouled and injured. Yeah ended up tearing his acl and he was a guy like one of the things I'll never a story I'll never get tired of telling that I unearthed in writing about Clay. He was a guy that the spurs in this draft brought in for a second secret workout right before the draft because they were so curious about him. And obviously he gets picked I think four spots above Kawhi and Chip England, who was the spurs assistant coach then shooting specialist was at these workouts and, and he told people on the Spurs. Something about this guy's internal drive reminds me of Manu Ginobili and they, they all their hair stood up on end because they all revere Ginobili is as a competitor, as a fighter and not a lot of people saw that in Clay. He's kind of like SoCal, laid back, whatever. But the fire really burns in him and it really endeared him to everybody he, he was ever around. He hated losing. He took it personally. Like he took this whole draft personally. He, he and others with the warriors told me about that like he never for kings for taking Jim Ferrett over him. He would go around saying the Cavs, the Cavs took the wrong Thompson. They took Tristan Thompson like he, he was, he is doesn't look it, but he is a fiery, fiery dude. I, I regardless of the fact that I didn't take him with my first or third pick in this draft, he's just one of My all time favorite basketball players and always will be.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, there's a stretch there from Bamboo at 7, Knight at 8, Kemba at 9 and Jimmer at 10 that I'm sure Clay was probably like, what the fuck is happening?

[Zach Lowe]

I think the Jimmer one really stuck in his craw. It's like, really? You're taking another shooter over me?

[Bill Simmons]

All right, so listen, I think you made the right pick at three with Jimmy. But if, if, if we could go back in a time machine and have this draft and I know what I'm getting with each guy and the Clay injuries, you know that you can't factor that in because I think that was a wear and tear from the five years. I just think I would rather have Klay Thompson on my team for the 15 years than Jimmy Butler because I get an awesome teammate. I get no drama at all. I get the gravity of clay.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, you're not going to have Jimmy for 15 years. I guess I have to make that into my decision.

[Bill Simmons]

But that's that Jimmy brings this extra drama. But the higher upside, it's a really interesting debate. Like, I guarantee if we asked Steve Kerr. Yo, just curious, who would you rather have had since 2011 on, he wasn't there until 2014. But would you rather have Jimmy or Clay? It would have been no contest. So it's a good argument.

[Zach Lowe]

The thing about Jimmy is, the thing that's interesting about how every situation with him seems to end badly is.

[Bill Simmons]

Which is true.

[Zach Lowe]

The Jimmy stuff is always really good until it's not like, like Chicago. Oh, he changed our culture. He's a locker room. What a. What a bulldog. What a story. Jives with Tibs. And then he hates Hoiberg. And it goes the other way. Minnesota like Tibbs again, like, oh, he's elevating the culture. And then he decides he doesn't think Katt and Wiggins are winners. And it goes the other way. Miami all tailor made. This is a Heat culture guy like central casting. Maybe he's a problem somewhere else, but he's made for us. And then it goes badly there. So it's this weird up and down where he's like a he. He plays in a way that you want your other players to play. A toughness defense and all that stuff. He's a good chemistry guy. And then it goes, it goes the other way. It's not like a universally bad. Like, you know, from day one, this guy is going to bring some issues to our team. It's not. It doesn't start that way with Jimmy.

[Bill Simmons]

So we went Kawhi, Kyrie, Butler, Clay. You have the fifth pick and it drops off here to a pretty interesting next three.

[Zach Lowe]

I mean I. I'm excited to pick one three, five in this draft because I can build my team around the trio of Kawhi and Jimmy Butler on the wing and Kemba Walker as a spot up shooting point guard. Wow. Who re. I just think he reached his highs were higher than anyone else on the list. His two best seasons in Charlotte were better than anything that I can get from anybody else in this draft. He fits with my. He fits with my two wings that I've already taken. We can protect him on defense. And I just thought he. He hit some pretty spectacular highs both as an off the dribble artist and it just is a number one scorer on a decent team that frankly I people didn't expect from him earlier in his career when his jumper was shaky and all that stuff. And another just all time beloved culture guy. So I'm taking him.

[Bill Simmons]

I wrote in the draft diary he's a leader and a winner. Could absolutely be the second or third guard on a contender someday. Which he ended up being in 2020 in the Celtics in the bubble where he did not. They went to the conference finals. He did not have a great last series there. You mentioned his peak in Charlotte. 24. 6 cysts, 38% from 3. He was basically discount Dame lowered it. Right. It's like a slightly poor man's name. Four all star teams, one third team all NBA. And. And sadly his knees just didn't hold up. I mean they went pretty fast. Boston stiffed it out. They traded them. He ended up getting them Al Horford. They had to attach a pick to it. And then there's a weird thing where the Knicks thought he had a little bit left in him and he just didn't.

[Zach Lowe]

And he had one all time great game with the Knicks when his mom was in the stands. And I think he might have put. Put up a 50 ball if. If I'm. I may be making that up. But it was like a crazy high scoring game.

[Bill Simmons]

But I think that led to them having a trade. What ended up being the Jalen Durham pick. Cause they had to attach the pick to get rid of Kemba on Detroit and that ended up. So they didn't get him but they ended up with some free agent stuff. Anyway. I think that's fair. I had. I'm going to take Vucevic sixth and I had him in the five spot. So over a thousand games, 32K minutes, which is second most in this draft. 17 and 10 career, 50% shooting. Never won a playoff series in his entire career. Two all star games. And his big legacy ended up being that bizarre Chicago trade which ended up being Wendell Carter, Wagner and I think Anthony Black, the guy for Vuch.

[Zach Lowe]

No, it's Jed. It was Jed Howard.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, it's Jed Howard. Okay.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, they end up getting Carter and Wagner for Vuch, basically, which you're doing a hundred times out of 100. But I like the durability with him. I think he fits in with my team. But I also think he should be either the fifth or sixth guy from this draft.

[Zach Lowe]

I can't believe you. I can't believe you even entertain taking him over Kemba Walker. I guess I don't know what we're aiming for quite. I'm like I, I just. I'm aiming for. For I'm going heights more than I

[Bill Simmons]

guess the Kemba, the Ken with Kemba question to me is was it a good stats, bad team situation with him? Cause it's not like those Charlotte teams were winning right when he was putting up those stats. And the only time we ever saw him on a good team with a chance to really do well was that Boston team that he just didn't have a good playoff series for them or good playoff run for him. But it might have been at a different point of him physically.

[Zach Lowe]

That's bubble and physically wearing down. And it's not as if that Charlotte team was making great decisions about its franchise as evidenced by the rest of this draft. And the fact that we will not say Bismack bio's name for quite a long time.

[Bill Simmons]

He was a defensive liability even when he was 100% healthy. And in the 2020 playoffs teams just as. But Miami especially, it was just like he had. They just put a. They covered him in steak sauce and just tried to grill him.

[Zach Lowe]

What do you think is going to happen? What do you think's going to happen with Vuch on your team?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, that's the irony of this is Kemba versus Vuch. Two all time guys who get hunted and were big reasons why they never had more playoff success. So I, I just thought Vuch's career was a little longer. But I, I thought that was a 5A 5B situation. I know who you're going to take seven. So go ahead.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, I think, I think really you surrendered this draft by letting me have the first pick. I think this is a clear one. 3, 5, 7. I win the draft over you, I will take Let me just check the second round to make sure.

[Bill Simmons]

No, you. You know who you're going to take.

[Zach Lowe]

I got to bring them in. I got to bring Tobias Harris to my team. I'm taking Tobias Harris at. 7 and I have, you know, he's a power. My team is trending power forwardy. But that, that's okay. He's longevity production. A little late career revival with the Pistons. I think he'll help the Spurs. You know, left the Philadelphia sour experience behind and rebounded. And I just like. He's done more than the Morris twins. He's done more than Alec Burke's done more than Brandon Knight. He's done more than Chandler Parsons and Bojan Bogdanovich who are good second round picks here. I just don't think there's really anyone else who, who sways me here. I mean, is there another candidate? Markif Morris at his best was pretty good. Tristan Thompson I think is underrated.

[Bill Simmons]

You're spoiling the draft for the listeners. All right, all right. Well, okay.

[Zach Lowe]

All right.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, then I did drop.

[Zach Lowe]

Give me Tobias Harris and we'll sign Bull Bomb Marianovich as an undrafted free agent and reunite them

[Bill Simmons]

over a thousand games for him. Most minutes of anyone from this draft. 32,004. 74. 16 and 6 for his career. 17 and 8 in the playoffs. Never made a conference finals in the running for best zero all star guy from this century.

[Zach Lowe]

Ooh, ooh, I like that.

[Bill Simmons]

Just from this century. Never made an all star game, but I think the career is pretty solid. He's going to end up, you know, now he's going to San Antonio. Might have a chance to actually make conference finals or finals. I would say he has a good chance. He's also been in five trades where the team that traded him lost the trade. Each time Charlotte traded up and Milwaukee traded back and it ended up being a mess. But Milwaukee ended up getting Harris and ended up winning the trade. He got traded in 2013 with Duron Lamb. Do you have Duron Lamb stock?

[Zach Lowe]

I did not.

[Bill Simmons]

And cash for so that. That Orlando got Tobias with those other two guys and Milwaukee got Gustavo. I own JJ Redick. And Ish Smith. A famously unhappy JJ Reddick. Milwaukee.

[Zach Lowe]

I was gonna say. Let me. Let me give you some personal advice. If you run into jj do not ask him questions about his tenure with the Milwaukee Bucks. It's not funny. He's not going to laugh at it. He's not going to take the joke well.

[Bill Simmons]

Even went better than his New Orleans Pelicans tenure. 2016 traded to Detroit from Orlando for Irsan Ilisoba and Brandon Jennings.

[Zach Lowe]

Wildly irresponsible trade. Really horrible for the Magic. That was a Scott Skiles has the wheel and is driving the car into the Grand Canyon trade.

[Bill Simmons]

By the way, I see genuine joy as I list these terrible trades from the 2010s in your face right now. 2018 traded traded with Avery Bradley Bobon and a 2018 first round pick that ended up being Miles Bridges. But then they traded back with Miles Bridges spot to take SGA who became a two time MVP to the Clippers for Blake Griffin and two other guys and Detroit got a year and a half out of Blake Griffin and he broke down. And then last but not least, traded by the Clippers with Bobon and Mike Scott for Wilson Chandler, Mike Mescala, Landry Shammit and two firsts that were not big first. That's the only one where the other team might have won the trade because I think the Clippers were excited to turn Tobias in the two firsts anyway. Quite a career still going. We're going to see him in the we're going to see him in some real playoff situations on a good team. We should mention another beloved teammate. Everybody likes him. So there you go. Okay, eighth, eighth pick for me. I'm just taking upside with Isaiah Thomas who was the 60th pick of this draft.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh I that's a good one.

[Bill Simmons]

By the way, I should have mentioned Vucevich was 16th and Tobias was 19th in this draft. Isaiah Thomas was 60th, went to Sacramento, somehow ended up having a better career than Jimmer Fredette who they took 10th, ended up in Phoenix. Danny Ainge steals him and has this incredible two year run with the Celtics where he averages 26 a game for two years, 7.6 free throw attempts, two all star teams and in 2017 second team all NBA, fifth MVP and they make the conference finals really nice run and then got hurt and they traded him and probably still paying karma points for trading a guy who really went all out for them in the playoffs and was never really the same again after that when it was arguable he should have kept playing but his highs were high. I would say it's a good pick. I would say similar, although the other person had way more success. But his effect on those Celtics teams those first two years or those those big two years in the vicinity of what Brunson has done for the Knicks for the last four from a statistic slash. Oh my God, I can't believe he's getting to the rim like this. And there is, there was some similarities. Brunson's a better, better player, obviously.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, he's he, he also arrives in Boston as part of this spasm of Phoenix point guard trades where they traded him to Boston for a first round pick. They traded Dragic to the Heat for two picks. They and then they trade one of the Lakers picks that they had one of the golden chips in the league for another guy in this draft, Brandon Knight, who neither of us have taken yet.

[Bill Simmons]

So to recap, we have Kawhi at 15. This these are the top eight picks we took. Karai Kawhi who went 15th, Kyrie first, Butler 30, Clay 11, Kemba 9, Vucevich 16, Harris 19 and Thomas 60. This draft was fucking not only drunk, but like throwing up and having its hair held back as it puked again.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, I'm going to restore some order with the ninth pick and pick Tristan Thompson, who was the fourth pick in the draft because I know here are some things I'm going to get from prime Tristan Thompson. I'm going to get some really, I'm going to get a lot of press for his romantic endeavors which is going to help my team simplicity go up. I'm going to get elite defense, switchability, versatility, and I'm going to have the most annoying offensive rebounder in the entire league who's going to do all the dirty work for my team. Never complain about his touches and just be effective at what he does. And at this stage of the draft I'm very happy to just get that

[Bill Simmons]

he turned into an awesome role player. Four finals teams, 2016 champs three playoffs from 15 to 17 where he averaged 9.4 rebounds a game and did all the switching stuff you mentioned. Billis said during the draft he just needs to learn how to play and how to score. And then I wrote I think I need more for my fourth pick than that. Well, he turned into a decent guy.

[Zach Lowe]

I think that was Turns out he's a great ninth pick in this draft.

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[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I, I'm going to take a guy who's played a thousand games who career is 13 and 9, 56% shooting. And who is an interesting what if for the 2016 playoffs? Jonas Valanchunis good pick. So came back. 2016 playoffs is his peak. He's averaging a 15 and 12 in the 2016 playoffs for a really good Toronto team and gets hurt midway through the second round and comes back for the last couple Cleveland games in round three. Toronto loses to Cleveland in six. Did you ever feel like that was like maybe not a Hall of Fame what if but maybe like a little stealth on the Sunday buffet next to the scrambled eggs and bacon as a what if for you? Like what if Jonas doesn't get hurt? Does Anything change in 2016? Hello?

[Zach Lowe]

No, no, the. No, I don't. We're going with no. Alex.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. He does give up Toronto. He does end up getting Toronto a title though. Because what happens?

[Zach Lowe]

Well, they trade him for Marcus Soul, one of my favorite all time players. I love Jonas. I think he's actually a great success story of someone who found his place in the NBA by just doubling down by everything he was good at. He's a big man who they know. They flirted with him. Is he going to be can we make him a three point shooter? Can we do this? And he's like, you know what, I'll just beat the shit out of everybody all the time and that's going to be what I do. And he was very effective at it.

[Bill Simmons]

He was a top five or six, don't fuck with him guy for at least 12 years. I never, other than Toronto, I never felt like he found the right teams. I always felt like it was always a mismatch with teams that he was on. I did.

[Zach Lowe]

He that's why he's in Europe now, right? He went from the, he went for. He went through some of the real dregs of the last five years in the NBA, just sort of like cycling through.

[Bill Simmons]

He ended up in teams New Orleans and Sacramento, the two worst run teams in the league at one point. And by the time he gets to Denver he's, he's pretty much washed. I did the draft hour in 2011. I had Kevin Wilds and Dave Jacoby with me as peanut gallery guys. And when Valensunas got interviewed for this draft after he got picked, Wilds thought Valent Shunas was right on the interpreter cusp where he knew just enough English that he didn't need one, but probably should have gotten one anyway. And Wild said the interpreter never hurts. You're always going to sound smart Talking in your own language. And then I wrote, unless you're Brett Favre.

[Zach Lowe]

What a. What a. What a night.

[Bill Simmons]

I think that's a great point by Wilds, though. The interpreter always makes you sound better. The interpreter is always a win. Like, unless you're like, wembanyama level English, I'm using the interpreter until it's just obvious I don't need one anymore. I'm just like, it.

[Zach Lowe]

Wow.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Look, I mean, It depends what franc. I mean, like, can you imagine asking Tom Dundon to pay for some extra interpreters for Hudson Young?

[Bill Simmons]

There would only be one. It only be one that they needed

[Zach Lowe]

one guy who speaks 12 different languages. Just in case we sign anyone from this, from any part of the world.

[Bill Simmons]

Which things have the Tom Dundon belt tightening things. Have you actually agreed with or kind of see his point? Because my only one is, why do we have 12 assistant coaches at every game and on the bench and at summer league, I would just never have more than four.

[Zach Lowe]

I do think there is a certain amount of fake hustle in all of sports that he's trying to police a little bit. Like, do we really need 17 people to scout this opponent? But most of it is just like, he's just obviously trying to squeeze every penny I can out of the team. Like, are they even going to have a broadcast team next year?

[Bill Simmons]

I know you talked about this already, but what do you think his end game is?

[Zach Lowe]

I am not as plugged in as I need to be on it. I would assume his end game is get the city to pay for a really nice arena or a really nice upgrade to the current arena and not have to foot too much of the bill himself.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think that's going to happen.

[Zach Lowe]

You think they're going to move the team?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't. I just don't think. I don't think the city's going to be chipping in to help this rich guy have a better arena.

[Zach Lowe]

Good. They shouldn't. I mean, it's been 15 years since I've read Field of Schemes on a summer vacation, which is all about this. And the schemes are still scheming.

[Bill Simmons]

I remember when I did my HBO show, this was a big part of the ad campaign. How billionaires should pay for their own stadiums.

[Zach Lowe]

What a concept. You have the most money. Maybe you should use the money.

[Bill Simmons]

Why? Are you asking the city to do it or just keep the arena you have? All right, you have the 11th pick. Who do you have?

[Zach Lowe]

Boy. Okay, now we've reached a point where no I like there's two.

[Bill Simmons]

I like two guys still.

[Zach Lowe]

Look, I'm debating between two guys. I wonder if they're the same two guys. But you know where I have a connection in the world. And so I will take Bojan Bogdanovic to round out my team shooting. I had him 10 years in the league. 20,000 minutes, 11,000 points, knockdown shooter, could do a little ball, hit 39% threes for his career, could handle the ball and it post up in a pinch. If I need him, I'm not going to need him to do it on my team, but I feel like he's the best option. There is some good depending on how much you weigh longevity here. There are some interesting players in this spot, but I'll go. I'll go. Boyan.

[Bill Simmons]

He had a couple cup of coffees. Cups of coffee. Cup of coffees. He had a couple cups of coffee as this guy's a missing piece for us. And the only time it really worked was in Utah. I looked at his stats for 21 and they lose to the Clippers after Kawhi gets hurt, which was just an indefensible loss. But he was 18 and a half points a game in like 13 playoff games, 46% from three, and was an absolute bitch in that entire playoffs to guard and really felt like, oh, you know. But that was really the only time we saw it unleashed. But I always liked his game. I always thought, I remember when he was on the Wizards in 2017, when the Celtics played them. I always felt like they didn't get him the ball enough and figure out how to unleash him because I thought the Celtics had.

[Zach Lowe]

There was a Cav series when he was on the Pacers and it was another one. Is he the LeBron stopper?

[Bill Simmons]

I forgot about that. Yeah, I do feel like he's a legitimate playoff guy. He went 31st in this draft, which ties into my pick at number 12. I'm taking Marcus Morris, who is 14th, who played 41 more games than his brother. So what swung it for me is he was a real rotation guy for two conference finals teams in 2018 with the Celtics and 2021 with the Clippers, where he was. He played 30 minutes a game for the Celts and 31 for the Clippers. He's like a 12 and 5, almost 40% from 3 both times. And I just think if he could have been this one of the top five to seven guys on a conference finalist that's better than anyone else I'm getting in this. And I thought he was a little better than his brother. Okay, so you are now we only have a couple picks left. There's a couple fun ones left. So we can go quick. Who do you have?

[Zach Lowe]

I'm gonna have some fun. I'm gonna have some fun right now. I want all around skill. I'm going ceiling drafting ceiling all around skill. Max player back in his day. A little entertainment value off the court. We're bringing Chandler Parsons onto the squad who was the 38th pick in this draft. Yeah, injuries ruined his career. Knee stuff, all that stuff. Some late nights with Mark Cuban that were well publicized. We may have to, you know, just get, get the off court stuff a little under control. But we're taking Chandler Parsons and he's a great. He's going to help recruit free agents to my team. He was always at the forefront of that. His emoji use was first rate during the DeAndre Jordan Great Hang situation. Yeah, I'm taking him.

[Bill Simmons]

So I had him higher on my initial list and I did the deep dive on the career and he only played 440 games in nine years. He played 13 playoff games, zero round two playoff games. His four year peak was 15 and 5. 39% from three. I had him down but not. I had this guy ahead of him. Enes Cantor was the third pick of the draft, 11 and 8 for his career. Really one of the better PER 36 guys we've ever had. I think Bobon's obviously the LeBron of PER 36. But Cantor was 22 and 12 as a PER 36 guy for his, his prime and also helped the Knicks win the title. You know how.

[Zach Lowe]

Who do they get in that. In that he's involved in a whole an Oklahoma City, New York trade.

[Bill Simmons]

OKC trades for Carmelo for some reason in 2018 they give up Cantor, McDermott and a second round pick in 2018 which becomes Mitchell Robinson. Wow. Yeah, I always liked Kanter's game. He. It went fast when he was on the Celtics. He was just, he just was washed. He was too slow. But I always thought he was kind of a bitch on the low post. Like he could really like torture teams and he was a good change of pace coming off the bench. Physical guy. And I feel like where the league is now, he kind of missed. He was between these two eras that he would have been good in. He was in the worst possible era for what he was good at. I think he would have been better now.

[Zach Lowe]

It's a good pick. And as you said, when I took Chandler Parsons there's a bunch of guys in this draft that played significantly more games than him and we're fairly productive. And Enes canner and his freedom is one of them. I also will always admire 2019 playoffs with the Blazers. Nurkic got hurt. He's shoved into the starting five. He was dealing with some kind of elbow or arm injury and just like, like unrelenting, you know, his skill level was, you know, he was an around the rim guy. Offensively he was a liability. Defensively. There's the famous Billy Donovan can't play canter lip reading thing that happened with Oklahoma City. But he gave everything he had to that Portland team and did what he did well. And so it's a, it's a, it's a good pick.

[Bill Simmons]

The one piece with him, he was, he went ended up in Utah. Cause they traded D Will to the Nets and they end up getting the third pick in the draft. Would they get Derek Favors and Cantor out of it?

[Zach Lowe]

Basically Deb Devin Harris is in that trade too.

[Bill Simmons]

But the Canter pick really felt like, holy shit, they're getting the third pick of the draft out of this. And it was just the wrong draft. It wasn't like if, like if that happened in 2024, it's like, oh cool, we have Jabari Smith. That didn't go. All right, let's go quick. Who do you have next?

[Zach Lowe]

Okay, quick, quick. Who do I have next? This is. Now we're getting into dicey. Not dicey, but you know, I'll take.

[Bill Simmons]

You're gonna take who I would have taken?

[Zach Lowe]

There's someone I really want to take, but it's too early for him. I'll take Marke Morris to make sure the twin, the Twins are not on the same team.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow.

[Zach Lowe]

Mark, I really, I really thought. But I really thought Markief Morris was going to be better than he ended up being in the NBA. I think he had real all around skill and feel that just somehow never all clicked together at the same time. The shooting never clicked. And maybe that's the sort of all encompassing explainer, but at this spot in the draft, I feel pretty good about taking him over a few other guys.

[Bill Simmons]

I agree with you. When I did my the 2014 rankings, I had him 10th and I had him oak ahead of his brother. He we should mention was a role player on the 2020 Lakers won the title. 18 minutes a game played for eight teams. So he could be, I think at his peak, maybe the 9th or 10th man on a really good team, which

[Zach Lowe]

was at his peak. I think he was better than that. But yeah, I mean he never became. There was a vision of him where he was a starting power forward on a good team because he could do a just about just enough of everything to be like a jack of all trades. And that never really the irony of

[Bill Simmons]

the Morris twins of both of them were about an inch and a half too short. Right. They were in that weird tweener zone. I'm taking Reggie Jackson.

[Zach Lowe]

He was in. Yeah, that's a good pick.

[Bill Simmons]

Two conference finals 2014 playoffs Royal KC six man was pretty good as a bench guy that year. 11 a game. And then famously if you've had an oversized ego and I don't think it played well in that team ended up going to Detroit. Stan Van Gundy overpaid for him. Your guy. And then 20, 21 playoffs Clippers make the conference finals. He's 18 a game in the playoffs, 41% from three and was like a revelation for them. So he did it in a big spot. He was the 24th pick in this draft and you know, worst case scenario I think the thing that dinks him was he went to Denver in 23 and we thought that was going to be an impactful move for them heading in and they won the title anyway. But he just really wasn't involved and never really meshed with Joker which seemed to be a recurring theme for him. So taking him there, who do you got? I have four draftable guys left.

[Zach Lowe]

That's it. Yeah, I got more than that. I am going to go off the board a little bit here and I'm going to go all the way down to number 42 and I'm going to take Davis Bertans just you know what, let it fly. Like almost no one, almost no non star player has been so like guiltless without conscience, without thinking about letting it fly from three and he should. That's what he was in the NBA to do. He would let fly from all angles, all distances against tight closeouts and he's an all time very. He's like a very very good elite three point shooter and let's have some fun on my team. He'll create some chemistry problems by taking too many shots so our, our coaches will have to do some work with that. But you know it's. It's him or a couple other guys that you're going to mention and I don't feel strongly enough about any of them that I'll take the guy that I know has one A plus skill and some other liabilities but one A Plus skill. I'll take Davis Bertans.

[Bill Simmons]

What was. Didn't he get a goofy contract at some point from somebody? Because I remember writing Davis Bertan's contract for two years.

[Zach Lowe]

I believe it was the Washington Wizards of Joe House.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that's who it was. I just remember him being in every trade rumor for two years as some sort of third contract, whatever. Okay.

[Zach Lowe]

Resigned. Unrestricted free agents. Sit down for a minute.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

Five years, $80 million in 2020. Washington Wizards.

[Bill Simmons]

What year was that?

[Zach Lowe]

It's the year of our basketball gods. 2020.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, that was like a. Oh my. Why would they do that? That's insane. Even for the wizards. That's insane. Five years, 80 million. Jesus. Fucking wizards. I'm taking Alec Burks. 12 pick in this draft. Good pick, basically 11 points a game, 38% from 3 for his career. And he's played 791 games. Always like in the 8th, 9th, 10th range. Some playoff contenders have kicked the tires on him to mixed success. Probably did the best on what Detroit, I would say, but had a long time in years.

[Zach Lowe]

He had a late career revival with the Knicks. Tibbs loved him.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I was kind of enjoyed him. Kooky shot. One of the weird kooky shots of. In an era where a lot of people have the assembly line shots, but his shot was a little, little goofy, which I liked. So that's my one. All right. Who do you got?

[Zach Lowe]

You know, I don't got. Isn't this the draft where the Timberwolves take through a trade select Tangai Nagombo who turned out to be too old to be draft eligible? I think that happened in this draft.

[Bill Simmons]

That was David. One of David Cotton's last moves.

[Zach Lowe]

I think that's. I think that's the right guy.

[Bill Simmons]

A tail end for the David Cott era.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, if, If. Apologies if it's not, but he is one of the players taken in the second round who has no stats in the NBA and thus never played. So I will not be taking him an all timer like drafting a guy who's undraftable. I mean that's like. You might as well draft a football player just, just for fun, like teams used to do. I'll have some fun. I'll take Kenneth Farid. I, I really liked watching.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm at the disappointed Kenneth Freed, but got taken part of this draft.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, he's my next fan, you know, voracious rebounder, rim runner, super angry dunker. Never really advanced any other part of his game, unfortunately. And a little useful jump hook. He could bust out now and then. I just feel like he'll come in and make hustle plays for me.

[Bill Simmons]

I was a huge fan first six years. 12 and 9 in 26. Probably peaked on that weird Denver playoff hodgepodge team. I loved him in the draft. I wrote in the draft diary, if Fareed doesn't end up having a meaningful moment for a contender at some point over the next eight years, I'm giving you a full refund for this column.

[Zach Lowe]

Column was great. I think he had a meaningful moment for kind of the George Carl team where Gallinary got hurt right before the playoffs. That counted as a made lose to the warriors as sort of the warriors announcing to the world, we are here, we're forced to be reckoned with. But yeah, I think you. I think you don't owe anybody.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm going to take Nicole Amerit with. We could make this the last pick or go one more round. 23rd in this draft, couldn't come over for a few years. Was dangled as this. Very few times this has happened over the years. The guy who's overseas, who's always been Sergio Lowe, it's the Sergio Lowell All Stars. These guys that are overseas that are just lingering as these massive assets, but they really weren't. But we always heard about them over and over again. He finally came over. He played second round in the rotation for the Bulls, Pelicans and Bucks and was a 12 and 6 guy and was always a little overpaid. I think I liked him the most on the Bulls, but he ended up. Who did he get in the fight with?

[Zach Lowe]

Bobby Portis. I was going to say, you got to just keep. Don't sign Bobby Portis on your team.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, Bobby Portis, teammate. Fight in the locker room. Probably.

[Zach Lowe]

Quite, quite.

[Sponsor/Ad Reader]

He.

[Zach Lowe]

He really hurt Mirotic.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he. What did he break his, like, orbital bone or something?

[Zach Lowe]

I just. I would just say he broke his face.

[Bill Simmons]

Not great. Anyway, welcome to my team. We'll keep Bobby Portis off it. All right. I'll give you one last pick if you want it.

[Zach Lowe]

I have a guy I'm excited to pick. I think this is a perfect. What, is this the one? This is like the 10th guy on my team. I think it's a perfect 10th guy. Had some playoff moments. Locker room stabilizer organized the offense for us off the bench. Corey Joseph, come on down to team low. He was the 29th pick in this draft, right behind Norris Cole. NBA champion Norris Cole, who can't. Who can't get a sniff. Nor could number two pick Derrick Williams,

[Bill Simmons]

Corey Joseph might have had. There was somebody overpaid him at some point. I can't remember who. I remember there was a. Oof. Contract with him.

[Zach Lowe]

Could be. I think it was a Toronto.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, somebody did it. Yeah, he was more of a fourth guard who got miscast as a third guard sometimes. But yeah, he was around there and he was on the 2014 spurs high fiving people.

[Zach Lowe]

Kings signed to a three year $37.2 million.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh man. Just.

[Zach Lowe]

It just goes to show you, it's always the king. The Raptors signed him in four years earlier to four years 30, which is more reasonable. So Bertie 5, when in doubt, Kings, Wizards. Like, if you're like, who was that bad contract with a crazy contract.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, last pick of the draft. Chemistry guy. When he was drafted, Fran Frischella said about him, the problem, he cannot score. You cannot run any plays for him. That was what I had in the draft diary. Bismack, Biyombo, seventh pick in the draft.

[Zach Lowe]

Bismack getting in, still kicking around.

[Bill Simmons]

Bismack's big moment was when Valent Shunas got hurt in 2016 and the Raptors had to throw him in for like seven, eight playoff games. They won a series with him as the center. They finished off Miami with Biyombo as their center and then lost to Cleveland. But he's still around. I'm sure he's going to be in the league next year. He's one of the longest running guys from this draft.

[Zach Lowe]

You know what else happened in 2016 with Bismack?

[Bill Simmons]

Bio, he was overpaid.

[Zach Lowe]

The cap Spike and the $64 million contract from the Orlando Magic, who had like nine big men on their team already did not work out.

[Bill Simmons]

I love the cap spike. All right, so that's the draft, not pick. Derek Williams, the second pick in this draft who ended up being a 30% three point shooter in the NBA. I wrote in the draft diary, I believe Derek Williams will be a more effective professional basketball player than Kyrie Irving. We will see one of my worst ones ever. Easily in the top 10. This was David Kahn's last first round pick, I think. And this really just quickly the number two curse, which goes back to 1984 where we have Sam Bowie, Lenny Bias, Danny Ferry, Sean Bradley, Jay Williams, Darko Milichick, Marvin Williams, Michael Beasley, Hashim Thabeat, Evan Turner, Derek Williams, Michael Kidd, Gilchrist, Jabari Parker, Lonzo Ball, Marvin Bagley and James Wiseman from 1984 to 2020. And then not mentioning Steve Francis, John Moran, Kenny Anderson and Victor Oladipo, who All had off the court stuff or bad injury luck. And then it feels like it shifted. Now I'm not as scared as the SEC of the second pick anymore. In the 2000s we've had some good ones in a row. Jan Besley did not get drafted. Wanted to mention Sal and I bet that Jan Besley would be a top six pick in this draft. And we won that because he went six.

[Zach Lowe]

One of my first summer league memories that I can see really clearly was sitting in the stands in the little gym. Not Thomas and Mac. The other one.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

With some Wizards officials watching Jan Vesely play the three for their summer league team after getting drafted, it was clear he was not gonna be able to play the three. And in my mind he had like eight fouls in the first half. And I was like, this is. I might leave.

[Bill Simmons]

This is good.

[Zach Lowe]

It's getting a little awkward with you guys. It's not going great for yon Veseli.

[Bill Simmons]

You go to the bathroom and don't come back. Brandon Knight went eighth. Now Brandon Knight should have been drafted but just could not stay healthy. I mean I, I think he played 60 games once. He did get one big contract from somebody. I think the Pistons Jimmer for that at 10. I wrote I see him becoming a more consistently explosive version of JJ Berea only with deeper range. That's some guy you'd want on your team, right? Turned out no was wrong that. Iman Shumpert, 17 yeah, was the other one.

[Zach Lowe]

Had a case.

[Bill Simmons]

And the only other things from this draft was ESPN played Adele's rolling in the deep the entire time. Oh that it was a rolling in the deep draft with a lot of.

[Zach Lowe]

I'm trying to look at the, look at the draft and see is there a guy in here that I just had a super soft spot for. Like I was sure this guy was going to make it and it was not.

[Bill Simmons]

I think mine was Kenneth Reed.

[Zach Lowe]

I remember liking Jordan Hamilton, by the way. Josh Selby is in this draft. Yep. And the only reason I bring up Josh Selby is because all time summer league all star. Just like he came in and exploded in summer league and then played 38 games over two NBA seasons.

[Bill Simmons]

My soft spot. Guy

[Zach Lowe]

Dan Guy Nagambo.

[Bill Simmons]

I did kind of enjoy John. John. How'd you pronounce the name? Lure.

[Zach Lowe]

Lure was good.

[Bill Simmons]

I always thought he was like a banger that was going to have moment. I had a moment where I enjoyed Lavoy Allen who was the 50th pick in the season.

[Zach Lowe]

I like Lavoy Allen. I liked Jordan Hamilton, had a soft spot for. And I liked Andrew Gowdlock, had some. Had some sauce to his game. Andrew Godlock was a problem.

[Bill Simmons]

Now, you said Steamsma was an undrafted free agent in this draft.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, okay, I had the list, but I deleted it because there was no one. There was no one that we were going to pick.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, here's your team. Well, I'll just do what the draft was. And it goes back and forth. Zach's pick, my pick. Zach's pick, my pick. You took Kawhi. I took Kyrie Irving. You took Jimmy Butler. I took Klay Thompson. You took Kemba Walker. I took Nicola Vucevic. You took Tobias Harris. I took Isaiah Thomas with the eighth pick. You took Tristan Thompson. I took Jonas Valanchunas. You took Bojam Bogdanovich. I took Marcus Morris. You took Chandler Parsons. You have a more fun kind of team to hang out with than me.

[Zach Lowe]

Joy. Joy is going to be our watchword.

[Bill Simmons]

I have Enes Kanter. You have Mark Keith Morris. You ended up. Did you get. Oh, no. We split up the Morris twins. I took Reggie Jackson. You took Davis Bertons. I took Alec Burks. You took Kenneth Farid. I took Nikola Maretich. You took Corey Joseph. I took Bismack Biyomba. To round it out, we'll put it on the social medias and we'll ask people to say who, who won that one. But man, I. I would say that's a 10 out of 10 weirdo draft. I don't know if it gets weirder than that one. Other than maybe 2013. 2013 is a 10 and a half out of 10.

[Zach Lowe]

It's a pretty. 2013 is a great one. 2009 is not weird, but it's a good one of my favorite ones. This one is an all time, like, what happened? What's going on? And I was listening to you guys. You do the bubble one or the COVID one? The other day, that was another. It's another wacky one.

[Bill Simmons]

Zach Lowe, we will hear from you. A deeper dive on the LeBron trade and not the LeBron signing and all the ramifications from that. That's going up Sunday. I'm not going to have another podcast until Tuesday or Wednesday next week. Don't forget about the live rewatchables on Monday. Obsession, 4pm Pacific Time Live on Netflix. And thanks to Gahau and Eduardo and everybody at Spotify as well. Congrats to the Philly fans. Are you going to have Chris Ryan this weekend?

[Zach Lowe]

We're going to try. We're efforting. We're currently efforting.

[Bill Simmons]

I bet he's available. Okay, that's it for the pod. Enjoy the weekend. I will see you next week. Thanks, Zach.

[Zach Lowe]

Thank you.

[Bill Simmons]

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