NBA Draft Reactions and Lots of Pelicans Jokes With Joe House and J. Kyle Mann

Summary

The Bill Simmons Podcast: NBA Draft Reactions and Lots of Pelicans Jokes With Joe House and J. Kyle Mann
Release Date: June 26, 2025

Hosts: Bill Simmons, Joe House, J. Kyle Mann

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1. Introduction to NBA Draft Reactions

In this episode, Bill Simmons, along with regular contributors Joe House and J. Kyle Mann, dives deep into the 2025 NBA Draft. The trio provides detailed analyses of the draft picks, team strategies, and the potential impact of each selection on the future of various NBA franchises.

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2. Key Draft Picks Reactions

a. Ace Bailey Selected by the Washington Wizards

• Bill Simmons [00:00 - 06:05]:
  "After pick 28 of the NBA draft, I waited to see who the Celtics were going to take and they took a Yugo. When we were growing up, Yugos were a car that we made fun of. And now the Celtics have a pick that doesn't seem like he can shoot."

• Joe House [06:05 - 07:03]:
  Discusses the surprise of the Wizards selecting Ace Bailey, highlighting his potential despite criticisms:
  "Ace was the wild card. I got so excited. And then Danny Ainge did a dick any age thing. He just did the smart thing and that was it."

• Bill Simmons [07:03 - 08:36]:
  Reflects on the Celtics' evaluation process and the challenges of drafting Ace Bailey:
  "Ace was the wild card. ... he's just so talented. ... what's he going to do, not play in the NBA? What's he going to sit out?"

b. San Antonio Spurs Selecting Dylan Harper

• Bill Simmons [08:36 - 09:25]:
  "San Antonio takes Dylan Harper and I really want to know how him and Darren Fox are going to coexist."

• Joe House [09:25 - 10:13]:
  Highlights the Spurs' needs and the potential synergy between Harper and other players:
  "He needs that dynamic playmaking... pairing him with Walter Clayton."

c. Brooklyn Nets' Point Guard Selections

• Bill Simmons [09:57 - 15:04]:
  Critiques the Nets' strategy of selecting multiple point guards, expressing skepticism about their long-term effectiveness:
  "Brooklyn celebrating over and over again after they took yet another point guard. ... the Nets are like, hold my beer."

• J. Kyle Mann [10:22 - 15:28]:
  Analyzes the Nets' focus on playmakers:
  "They’re following a theme of rolling the dice on creators."

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3. Analysis of Team Draft Strategies

a. Washington Wizards

• Joe House [12:04 - 14:33]:
  Discusses the Wizards' poor season performance and their desperate need for offensive threats:
  "Washington was negative 12 point something... bereft of any kind of threat on offense."

• Bill Simmons [14:33 - 16:06]:
  Critiques the Wizards' high-risk picks and their reliance on young talent:
  "They have Marcus Smart, ... taking Trey Johnson's pick is good because he can play multiple positions."

b. San Antonio Spurs

• Bill Simmons [15:04 - 17:03]:
  Evaluates the Spurs' balanced approach with Dylan Harper and mentions team depth issues:
  "They took Dylan Harper. What's the point of having both those guys?"

• J. Kyle Mann [16:21 - 17:52]:
  Highlights the Spurs' potential for improvement and their betting odds:
  "San Antonio is headed next season... more bullish on Dallas than you because I think flag can be impactful immediately."

c. Boston Celtics

• Bill Simmons [07:03 - 25:14]:
  Discusses the Celtics' draft strategy, highlighting their focus on assembling assets for future trades:
  "They might have the championship belt now of biggest mess of a team... how is this where we landed with the NBA draft, one of our favorite nights?"

• Joe House [25:14 - 33:53]:
  Analyzes the Celtics' potential moves and their reluctance to make immediate major trades:
  "If you take someone like Ace Bailey, Danny Ainge is showing he's just going for the talent."

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4. Notable Draft Picks and Player Evaluations

a. VJ Edgecombe to Philadelphia

• Bill Simmons [21:00 - 22:30]:
  "Edgecombe to Philly. That was the most likely pick. It does put the team on two separate timetables."

• J. Kyle Mann [22:30 - 29:01]:
  Details Edgecombe's potential role and his fit within the team:
  "He can see the first help defender... how that plays out."

b. Jeremiah Fears at Pick 7

• J. Kyle Mann [31:40 - 35:48]:
  Explains reservations about Jeremiah Fears' shooting consistency and defensive capabilities:
  "He can get in the paint, he's very smooth, but his shooting has been inconsistent."

• Bill Simmons [35:48 - 38:54]:
  Expresses concern over Fears being a high-risk pick due to his shooting and defensive liabilities:
  "I did a lot of red flags still he's being picked."

c. Derek Queen to New Orleans Pelicans

• Bill Simmons [57:00 - 61:18]:
  Criticizes the Pelicans' trade to acquire Derek Queen, labeling it one of the worst trades of the decade:
  "New Orleans trades up to take Derek Queen... one of the five dumbest trades of this decade."

• J. Kyle Mann [61:18 - 67:40]:
  Attempts to defend Queen's potential while acknowledging the trade's peculiar nature:
  "He has great size, he's going to punish defenders with technique."

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5. Betting and Conference Odds Insights

• Joe House [16:06 - 19:57]:
  Provides insights into betting odds for various teams and players:
  "San Antonio 17 to 1, Dallas 20 to 1. Cooper flag for Rookie of the Year at minus 115."

• Bill Simmons [19:57 - 26:21]:
  Discusses the implications of conference odds on team performances:
  "Minnesota at 8 to 1 probably has the second-best odds... triple double odds on Cooper flag."

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6. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the draft concludes, the hosts reflect on the unexpected picks and the overall quality of the draft class. They express mixed feelings about the decisions, with some picks seen as strategic assets and others as questionable choices that may not pan out.

• Bill Simmons [87:07 - End]:
  Wraps up the discussion by lamenting some of the less coherent team strategies and expressing hope for future improvements:
  "Danny Ainge could give zero fucks if somebody's like, yeah, I don't really want to play in Utah. He's going for the talent."

• Joe House [87:12 - End]:
  Shares his exhaustion and mixed emotions post-draft:
  "I'm drunk on exhaustion because of the NBA just won't stop."

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Notable Quotes

• Bill Simmons [06:05]:
  "Ace was the wild card. This is legit. It really could be him arriving in Washington."

• Joe House [19:22]:
  "I'm going to bet San Antonio over Dallas based on picks like Cooper flag."

• J. Kyle Mann [27:13]:
  "Will Hardy's gotten to the point where he's earned that credibility."

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Final Remarks

This episode provides a comprehensive overview of the 2025 NBA Draft, blending analysis with the hosts' characteristic humor. For fans looking to understand the implications of this draft on their favorite teams, this discussion offers valuable insights and a candid assessment of the night's decisions.

Transcript

[Bill Simmons]

This episode is brought to you by Square. Your favorite neighborhood spots run on Square and if I had a spot, it'd be at a local basketball themed sandwich joint. Then, using tools like Square Dashboard for real time insights, I'd grow the business to make it a nationwide thing. This sounds great, but keep the values rooted in the local neighborhoods. Whether expanding new locations, building a loyal following, or covering cash flow gaps. Square's gotcha. Go to square.com go simmons to learn more. S q u a r e.com g o/simmons square. Meet you there. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by State Farm. We are also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network where I have a new rewatchables that went up on Monday. We did Die Hard with a vengeance. It was super, super fun. It was me and Van Lathan and Chris Ryan and I think I had multiple big mistakes in this one. It's hard to host. Before you lump too much vitriol at me, it's hard to host. Sometimes you make mistakes. You're trying to do nine things. And I said in Die Hard 2, the airport was Chicago, it was Washington. I knew this because I did the Die Hard 2 Rewatchables. I obviously I knew it was Washington, but that's the thing. You had moving parts. So I screwed up. And then I think, what's that song? At the beginning of Die Hard 2, I called it Hot Time. Somewhere in the city or something. Listen, I'm in my mid-50s now. I'm going to have a couple doozies every episode now. It's just part of the package. Next rewatchables will be the last one for New York City Month. I'm going to tell you the movie now, so you have a couple days to watch it. It's pretty obscure, but it's also pretty well known and renowned and, and it is the definition of an 80s cult movie. It is directed by Martin Scorsese. It's called After Hours. And there's great stories and all kinds of anecdotes about how this movie got made, why it didn't hit, and then how it eventually grew. So that is. And it is the ultimate nighttime New York City movie. So that's the last one. You have five days to watch it. I think you gotta rent it. But it's, you can rent it anywhere. It's like four bucks. So After Hours will be the last one on Monday. Coming up on this podcast, Joe House and J. Kyle Mann are going to come on to recap the 2025 NBA Draft which had the potential to be an A plus and be incredible and have all kinds of comedy and craziness. Pretty chalk for a while. And then it got goofy and I can't wait to talk about it. So it's all next. We're going to take a break. We're going to bring him Pearl Jam and then House. J. Kyle Man. NBA draft coming up. This episode is presented by State Farm. It's no secret that great teams need great teammates. I've been saying this for years. And when it comes to insurance, State Farm is there to help you find the right coverage for your home car and more. Whether you need an in person or digital assist, they're ready. When life hits you with a full court press, get a game plan that helps fit your life. Talk to State Farm today. State Farm with the assist. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability and eligibility vary by state. My words. We're live. Yeah. Joe House is here. I'm Bill Simmons. We are live. After pick 28 of the NBA draft, I waited to see who the Celtics were going to take and they took a Yugo. When we were growing up, Yugos were a car that we made fun of. And now the Celtics have a pick that doesn't seem like he can shoot. I didn't do a lot of Yugo studying anyway. House. This was the Cooper flag draft. This was the San Antonio took Dylan Harper and I really want to know how him and Dear and Fox are going to coexist draft. This was the I can't wait to see what happens at three, but I think it's going to be VJ Edgecomb draft. And that's what happened. This was the where the hell is Ace Bailey going draft. Whereas where you came in, your beloved Washington Wizards, the former Bullets, Ace Bailey seemed like he wanted to come either play for your team or Brooklyn. Were you getting a little. You get a little Ace in your pocket and then Utah Danny Ainge, who's like, ace doesn't want to play here. He's literally announced he doesn't want to go to Utah. Danny A. I'm Danny Ainge. I do whatever the hell I want. And he takes him, he grabs him from you. Were you bummed?

[Joe House]

God damn it. Danny Ainge. I mean, Bill Simmons. I was preparing to come on. I was going to pop a bubble. There was two scenarios under which I was going to pop a bottle and pop a bubble. I was going to do both. One was Malawatch. That was my preferred pick for Washington. But over the course of today, I got so Many incoming messages from folks in the know and around the team. And you know, this Ace Bailey thing is legit. It's not a joke. It really could be him arriving in Washington said, wait a minute. It's not often that Washington is on the receiving end of some, you know, whatever misjudgments or whatever was driving the potential for Ace Bailey to drop a superstar. By all regards, in terms of this draft, this draft class. Yes. The way that everybody was sizing this thing up, a top three selection by every single measure falling to six. I got so excited. And then Danny Ainge did a dick any age thing. He just did the smart thing and that was it.

[Bill Simmons]

You set up the right way to evaluate it, which was so often. Washington is on the receiving end, dot, dot, dot, and it's the receiving end. Get it rammed right in your rectum. That's what happened. Oh, no, it was a rectum.

[Joe House]

I wouldn't go that far. No, I mean, this is. We kind of prepared for this outcome because a lot of the chatter, Ace was never a reality. And until the last 24 hours or so, he became more.

[Bill Simmons]

Come on.

[Joe House]

You were tantalizing.

[Bill Simmons]

I know how disappointed you are. You were more than tantalized.

[Joe House]

I was tantalized. I, like I said, I was ready to pop a bubble. I mean, and pop a bottle. Both of them. Right up until the. I mean, I did have chills. I will say, sitting in the moment, it's like, is this potentially a franchise altering moment for me? Just like. No, no, of course not.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, there were five. Five legit ESPN top 120, 24 recruiting class blue chippers in this draft, plus Knippo, who I think rose up. And everybody loved him too.

[Joe House]

Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Ace was the wild card. I read everything. I sent you a long article that somebody wrote. I think the New York Star Ledger had a feature. I don't know what to make. He's combining like 40 things. We've been following basketball for so long, 40 red flags just strewn all over the place. And yet he's just so talented. And this is, you know, that we've seen these guys over and over again. It's like the Michael Beasley syndrome where you just like. I know there's red flags here, but wow, is this guy talented. And he ends up going second in the draft. Danny, knowing Utah has all of these draft picks, all of these pieces, and yet doesn't have like the guy. You have to take a swing at some point and he's. They take a swing. I think the thing with Ace, if You're taking him at 5. Worst case scenario, he's trade bait for a bigger trade, right? If you're, if you're trying to get somebody awesome, that's a centerpiece kind of guy. And that was why I thought, I was really surprised. I mean, we'll go into some of the stuff Brooklyn did, but you know, if, if Brooklyn I think is one of the teams that would have a chance for Giannis down the road. I just want somebody who can be at number eight, who can be in that Giannis trade and not take the, the project from BYU, who most people had in the 14 to 20 range. We'll talk about them when Kyle Mann gets there. But I like that. I really thought that was the right pick from Utah. Take the asset, worry about it later. What's he going to do, not play in the NBA? What's he going to sit out?

[Joe House]

It was also draft for need. Like they need that dynamic playmaking. They need that backcourt help. And pairing him with Walter Clayton, I mean, Bobby Marks couldn't contain. He popped a bubble on tv ready to give Utah the, you know, the, the lead position in best draft through, you know, the, the, the first 20 picks or so.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, that was nice that Clayton went 18 because normally the normal in the history of the draft, that's the guy who usually goes 33, 34. And we're like, all right, that's stupid. Knipple is the guy who goes like 15th because they, they start talking themselves out of like his athleticism on defense. It seems like people for the most part are getting better at where these guys would go. And then the Nets are like, hold, hold my beer. And they start doing, they start doing their stuff.

[Joe House]

Well, now I'm interested in, you know, part of the quiet, you know, things that smart Utah does. In the background is sign Will Hardy to an extension that goes through 20, 31. And I want to see these kids with Will Hardy in this five out offense.

[Bill Simmons]

I want to see a therapist for him now because Ace might be a hand. Ace. Ace has like his support team. There's like the agent who's not certified to be an agent. Anytime there's a, you have an agent who's not actually certified to be the agent, I get nervous.

[Joe House]

Is that the guy who wanted, wanted a hundred dollars to appear on television? Was it that dude?

[Bill Simmons]

It's, there's, there's some stories, allegations, allegations that are made. You know, people can always change their support team as they get older and. Good point established.

[Joe House]

Speaking of that, very quick aside, you Know who changed his support team? Who? You heard this? Zion Williamson.

[Bill Simmons]

He did.

[Joe House]

New agent. Look up his new agent. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Did he hire a chef?

[Joe House]

I mean, you know, he can get. He doesn't need a chef. They have Ozempic out there now.

[Bill Simmons]

We got to save New Orleans for.

[Joe House]

I agree. Representation.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, when you and I go to dinner and there's some entree or something in the restaurant, you have to try, and sometimes it'll be on the table with a bunch of different plates, and you're like, I'm not gonna touch that yet. I'm saving it. I'm gonna have that. The potatoes au gratin, they're famous for it. I'm not gonna have it yet. I'm gonna wait. I'm gonna eat all these other things. That's New Orleans today.

[Joe House]

Great.

[Bill Simmons]

New Orleans is the potatoes au gratin. It's the house specialty. Don't eat it yet.

[Joe House]

It's over here.

[Bill Simmons]

Have it on the side of the table then we'll get a big spoonful of it later. But the Utah, Danny getting Ace Bailey with the fifth pick when it seemed like they had thrown their season away. Right. They're in this tank fest. Comes down to the last day, and then they drop all the way to five. Your team drops all the way to six. You guys still got blue chip players like Trey Johnson. I don't know what he is ultimately. I was saying Rossillo on Sunday, he's like the greatest version ever of like those Eddie House sharpshooter type guys. He's way better than that, obviously, but, you know, I'm not sure he'll be finishing around the rim that much for you. And I don't know. I don't know where it goes, but I do think he's one of those. You're texting your friends like, oh, my God, Trey's getting hot. Trey has eight threes in the second quarter. He's one of those guys.

[Joe House]

I hope that's true. I hope that's true. I mean, Washington finished almost 25 points behind Oklahoma City in net rating, which really seems almost impossible.

[Bill Simmons]

Almost impossible to get five points.

[Joe House]

Yes. Washington was negative 12 point something. And Oklahoma City was positive 12 points, damn near 25 points behind. And Washington, congratulations. In the bottom. Bottom four. In. In. By almost all defensive metrics and bottom two and almost all offensive metrics. So you take the best available and Washington, you know, just bereft of any kind of threat on offense from both. Both the two ball and the three ball. So, Trey, welcome your ability to.

[Bill Simmons]

And CJ McCallum, welcome.

[Joe House]

How long is he going to be here?

[Bill Simmons]

Why are you laughing?

[Joe House]

At least a year. He'll be here a year. That'll be fine.

[Bill Simmons]

Score.

[Joe House]

I like him. And he's going to come in and be a good mentor to these kids. I mean, it's. It's the. The reason that I was bummed that Valentunas got. Got traded. He was a good mentor to the kids, C.J. you know, leader of the union guy. He. He'll be a very good mentor.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Leader of the union. Great CBA they pulled off there. They gave the league a hard cap. Nobody has any free agency money. Nice job. Yeah. You have Marcus Smart, too, I think it's funny that they're Putting together the 2017 Celtics, the team that broke your heart in Washington's last Olynick and Marcus Smart. Maybe we get Avery Bradley back. You might have it. I like the Trey Johnson pick, so I'm going to start in order in the top, and I'll really try to save New Orleans for when Kyle gets there. But Dallas Cooper Flagg goes one. They show the war room. There were some great war room videos today. None better than Brooklyn celebrating over and over again after they took yet another point guard. Just wild celebrations. But they show Nico Harrison, he looks like he's FaceTiming somebody, and the whole war room, and he's just grinning like a madman. And you think like, I know we've talked about this a million times, but they trade Luka Doncic, and it's the worst, craziest sports trade, at least in this decade. It's one of the craziest NBA trades ever. And they end up with Anthony Davis and Max Christie in a 2029 first and Cooper flag. And just fundamentally, it's a trade you would make. I'm not saying it was their intention, but the way it worked out, like, they showed all these Dallas fans going to watch the draft. Like the Dallas fans are now sucked back in. The Cooper Flag buzz is nuts, and it's like all the stink from that trade is gone. It's incredible. It's an incredible turn of events.

[Joe House]

Not for me.

[Bill Simmons]

So incredible that you had some suspicions about.

[Joe House]

Not for me. It's not all washed away for me. You used the word sucked. I could tell you right now. Well, I won't say what I really think.

[Bill Simmons]

We're live.

[Joe House]

We're live. We're live.

[Bill Simmons]

Save it for text. Save it for our tech. Start with Jacoby and Verno.

[Joe House]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Which. Which is. Which is NC17. Yeah. Anyway, so that. So Dallas it all works out and they're doing great.

[Joe House]

Congratulations.

[Bill Simmons]

They're in a conference where there's some. Some stinko teams that just seem like they're flailing. Like Utah's not going to be good next year. Sacramento doesn't know what the hell they are. You know San Antonio by taking Harper and not kind of moving all in. We'll see with Wemby, but I don't think they're a guaranteed playoff team. Phoenix, who now has two centers. We'll talk about that.

[Joe House]

No, they don't. They have more than two. Well, they still have Nick Richards for some reason. They decided to acquire the Charlotte Hornets entire front court, like, in less than six months. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

Charlotte's just trying to get rid of their centers, and Phoenix is like, we'll take them. But there's. My point is the west, which I think is deep at the top. I do think there's some. There's some room on the bottom half maybe to maneuver around, which might be nice for. For the Mavs. We'll see. With Kyrie, they send Kyrie to a nice little extension. They're talking about getting a point guard like a Dennis Schroeder, Chris Paul stopgap guy until Kyrie can come back.

[Joe House]

I heard Malcolm Brogdon and d' Angelo Russell. Those were the names that I. That I saw hit the wire. I liked your guy, the guys that you said better than either one of Brogdon or Russell.

[Bill Simmons]

D' Angelo Russell. Like, really?

[Joe House]

I don't know who wrote that.

[Bill Simmons]

You're still going to do this? No, I saw it too. I'm just like, that's your stop gap. Why not just get Chris Paul? Just tell him four months. You can retire in February or we'll buy you out. You could be on whatever team you want.

[Joe House]

I'll tell you from the gambling odds perspective.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joe House]

I like the idea of where San Antonio is headed next season more than I like the idea of where Dallas is headed next season.

[Bill Simmons]

You mean just for pure over unders, for wins?

[Joe House]

Yeah. And. And, and positioning for. For division and all that kind of stuff. Let me have San Antonio.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm going to see if there's ways to bet on this.

[Joe House]

I know that there are conference odds.

[Bill Simmons]

San Antonio 17 1, Dallas 20 to 1. So your instincts were correct.

[Joe House]

Mm. Do tell. Interesting.

[Bill Simmons]

See, I think San Antonio, if they don't do anything else, it's. I think it's gonna be a little clumsy with all the guards.

[Joe House]

Could be.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a lot of guy. A lot of guards who can't shoot. It's a team that's gonna take a little while to figure out what it is. But they also might be a trade team in January or February. I'm more bullish on Dallas than you because I think flag can be impactful immediately as a all around guy. I think he can play multiple positions, guard people defend the rim. I think there's a Gafford, Anthony Davis, flag front line where they just are like, watch this. So name might actually be pretty interesting.

[Joe House]

Name their best shot creator. Name their best creator Kyrie Irving, who's.

[Bill Simmons]

Who'S working out every day hoping to get his leg back to 100%.

[Joe House]

By when I mean this is like.

[Bill Simmons]

The same flag point forward.

[Joe House]

I'm going to go ahead and take a shot. Like it's the same enthusiasm I keep hearing for Stefon Diggs with the Patriots. When is he going to play football? You know, why are we talking about Terry Irving?

[Bill Simmons]

I want to bring up Terry McLaren holding out.

[Joe House]

He's going to get a giant contract. I mean he deserves it.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you know okc is plus 130 to win the west next year? That feels like a Mahomes MVP like layaway bet.

[Joe House]

I literally had this, this conversation on East Coast Bias with the guys this week. The odds for them to win the title are +220 and that's too far. But I am going to bet them at +130 because what if this is the best value on them that you're going to get the entire season if they come out?

[Bill Simmons]

Corollary. Yeah. Take the Mahomes MVP ads right now at 5 to 1. It's the best chance. Best odds you're getting.

[Joe House]

It's possible.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, the funny thing is Houston's five to one. So Vegas got so excited by that Durant trade that I personally would not have Houston as the number two title team.

[Joe House]

I agree. I understand the wars yet. Right. I understand the market and I understand why they are where they are. But I also want no part of betting on that. Let's see it. Let me see a little bit now.

[Bill Simmons]

You go through and I think Minnesota, who is 8 to 1, probably has the second best odds there are. Cooper flag odds, by the way, for rookie of the year stuff they have. Will he record a triple double at any game in 20? 25? 26 is minus 115. I think I would take that minus.

[Joe House]

I'm not laying odds. Triple double is hard.

[Bill Simmons]

Get one triple double.

[Joe House]

Are they going to make him point forward right away? If we see that, if they, if that's what they show us, if he's the creator, if, if he's the playmaker, they let him be the straw, then hopefully those odds will still be there and we'll, we'll jump on them in, in, in October.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, we tangented. So Dylan Harper goes second to San Antonio. I still feel like there's a Darren Fox. I'm not, I'm not buying. I hope Darren Fox is renting. I hope he's renting like Tony Parker's house. I hope he didn't buy a house in San Antonio.

[Joe House]

Wow.

[Bill Simmons]

I just don't. I think Dylan Harper's too good. I don't. We've already seen Darren Fox try to juggle ball handling stuff with another really good guard and his name was Tyrese Halliburton, who they traded after a season and a half. I don't see those two together.

[Joe House]

He's expiring this year, is that right?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, that. But there was always. People thought there was a wink, wink that they were going to take care of him after. But.

[Joe House]

And maybe. Maybe so. But as, as we sit here right now, it's, it's not in. Infeasible that he.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, they should trade him to Brooklyn because Brooklyn took three point guards and Danny Wolfe was a point center. Maybe they'll want the Aaron Fox trying to collect them. I'm fine with San Antonio saying we don't know what we're doing yet. We're going to give. We're going to just throw these dudes out and look at it. But it was the right pick. Did you know when did you find out Ron Harper was his dad?

[Joe House]

Oh, coming into the season.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Joe House]

Like we knew. We knew ahead of time.

[Bill Simmons]

I felt like it was underplayed. Like Ron Harper was a massive, massive part of a couple MJ Bulls title teams. He's a. Like when. When we were in college and he was initially on the Cavs and then got. Was in the Danny Fair trade, went to the Clippers and was just a really fun two guard and had a really, really good career. And it's just weird. I, I felt like they could have spent two minutes on that on the draft telecast instead of all the other dumb shit they did, which we'll talk about later.

[Joe House]

I would have liked more of. Of him with his brother Ron Harper Jr. I didn't forget about that.

[Bill Simmons]

A lot of Harper stuff. I, I was in on any of the Harper subplots.

[Joe House]

Yep.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, number three. This is where the draft got interesting. Although not really interesting. Not really that interesting to me because I predicted this a long time ago. VJ Edgecombe going to affiliate just a classic. Checked a lot of the Darrell boxes, maxi Edgecomb and McCain as a young up and coming arrow pointing up backcourt. It's pretty nice.

[Joe House]

My question to you is, I thought that we might get some inkling of what direction Philadelphia might go in in terms of solving their identity crisis, and we got nothing. We got them making the smart value pick, you know, the pure Daryl Morey pick. They still have an identity crisis that they need to solve for. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

I think they were open to every possible scenario with that pick and didn't get an offer that they loved and didn't see a reason to trade backwards to pick somebody. Didn't see a veteran, any of that stuff. I just think that it was what it was. And then you take the best guy and I think that's the guy. Charlotte's taking him if he's at 4, Utah's taking him if he's at 5. So you gotta take him. I wonder. There's an identity thing, which I think you're alluding to with Philly, where you're on this weird Embiid timetable where I have no idea where he's playing. You're trying to contend. You have Paul George, who's in his mid-30s now, who's at a weird point in his career. You have some veterans, and then you have this really young backord of guys other than Maxey, who haven't really been in big games yet or anything. McCain was in high school one, two, three years. Two years ago. Three, two and a half years ago. And then you have lumbering Joel Embiid coming off eight surgeries, walking it up, playing, not playing. I just don't know what that team is. House and I know when we're doing over unders, that's going to be one of the hardest ones to pick. We don't know how many games Embiid's going to play. Does he change his name to if Joel Embiid stays healthy, Is it. We're officially at that point. Does he have to do a name change?

[Joe House]

Well, the question I have, speaking of, are we to this point, will the books even offer a number for Philadelphia? Yeah, it feels like you just play the under, whatever it is. It could be 46, it could be 36, it could be 29.

[Bill Simmons]

So what would you bet it at all? Right, let me. I'll throw a couple over unders out. So now we know who's on their team. Basically, they they will see if they can bring back Grimes, and I don't think they can bring back Yabasali. 42 and a half. Did you go over or under?

[Joe House]

Under.

[Bill Simmons]

You have to bet it.

[Joe House]

The problem is they're in the East.

[Bill Simmons]

So you'd go under 42 and a half for the Sixers.

[Joe House]

42 and 40.

[Bill Simmons]

I think I'd go under two.

[Joe House]

It's. I mean, it's a possibility.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a more likely scenario that Embiid has more injury problems and they decide to basically just go with the youth and.

[Joe House]

You know, but they, they get the benefit of.

[Bill Simmons]

I would embed it either way.

[Joe House]

Charlotte, Brooklyn and Washington still in the east, none of whom did anything that's to. To push themselves into any kind of contending position by way of this draft. And I can't imagine any of those three teams doing anything in free agency to tilt.

[Bill Simmons]

You don't think Brooklyn pushed themselves? They. They got seven ball handlers. They think the league next year is going to have multiple basketball.

[Joe House]

They're hoping they can play at Rucker. That's where they push themselves.

[Bill Simmons]

This episode is brought to you by HubSpot. Growing a business, it can feel impossible. But HubSpot's customer platform, I promise, can help you. It's powered by a suite of AI tools called Breez, so you can generate more leads, close more deals, and scale your service fast. With breeze agents handling the busy work, customers are cutting sales cycles in half and saving hours on work each week. Best of all, you can see results in days, not months. Visit HubSpot.comai to learn more. Come in. We deliberately saved everything after pick three for you. Although we did talk about Ace Bailey going to Utah so quickly. I would. We were. The thing we both said was like, Danny Ainge could give zero fucks if somebody's like, yeah, I don't really want to play in Utah. He's going for the talent. You must have loved the fit of Ace Bailey going to Utah.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Yeah, I think it, I think it makes sense. I mean, he's, he's, he's somebody if he embraces playing. This has always been the thing for me. If he embraces life off ball in the short term, he's going to make a lot of hay in that offense. I think he makes a whole lot of sense. So, yeah, I mean, once he gets out there, I mean, I think that's kind of everybody's experience with Utah as you hear things and everything. And like, I was joking with Zach about, like, that place is changing. I made a Whole video about it, about it is different than people think. And you get out there and you hear weird things about the liquor laws. It's like, it's not that weird. It's like it's a place that's really changing. And yeah, I mean, they needed shooting and the fact that they had access to him at that spot, you get the. You get the upside of the star stuff. And I think Will Hardy's going to be a great mentor for him. I think Will Hardy's gotten to the point where he's earned that credibility, where you just. You think anybody's going to be better with him because he's such a good coach.

[Bill Simmons]

They told Ace, like, Ace, if you don't think Salt Lake City is that much fun, you got to watch the show on Hulu, the Moms of TikTok, whatever that show is. Watch this. Watch the Mormon wives. Try to make me watch it. Give this, like, five hours. Fun City.

[Joe House]

Just for the record, I did not watch that house.

[Bill Simmons]

You're missing out. Edgecombe to Philly. That was the most likely pick. It does put the team on two separate timetables. And my guess is, like, if McCain would be the greatest third guard possible, right. He's probably severely overqualified as his career goes up and up to be a third guard. But you can also. You can do the Indiana thing, play three guards together. I like the flexibility gives them. I just have no idea how they make sense. With Embiid was the other topic we talked about.

[J. Kyle Mann]

I get the sense that there is maybe more quiet sort of shifting of. There are people who. Who have quiet confidence that McCain could legitimately have a chance to be as good or better than Maxi. I know that might seem crazy, so I wouldn't be surprised if this. If in the short term, I agree with you on the. The. It makes. At first, when I was thinking about Edgecomb and those two guys, I was just like, that's dissonant. That kind of makes my head hurt. I don't see how that's going to work. Maybe they're a little small, but ed scom is 6:5. I think if you take the pressure off of him to be a highly productive handler in the short term, you can get some of the benefit of some of the things that he adds, like the spacing and the. You just unleash this crazy athlete. Or was it. Was it the Clippers that unleashed like Bledsoe with that team back in, like, 2010, and you every once in a while he just do something crazy? I think it's going to be a low stakes role like that for him. You evaluate how it plays out. If McCain improves a whole lot, maybe you shift once this immediate title conversation is kind of simmered a little bit and then you make a decision going forward and then Edgecombe can be a big part of your thinking.

[Joe House]

What did you just say? Immediate title conversation. What title?

[J. Kyle Mann]

Let me add a word. Hypothetical. Yeah.

[Joe House]

Well, I don't even know if that does go as far enough.

[Bill Simmons]

It was the on paper. On paper title. It's the saber metric. If you put a season on a computer.

[Joe House]

I know what title. The worst contract in the NBA title.

[Bill Simmons]

They have to. The top three.

[Joe House]

They have two of the top three. That's a title.

[Bill Simmons]

Bradley Beal. Sorry, you're not grabbing the number one spot. As long as I'm here it's named that.

[Joe House]

The whole. The whole thing's named for him.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, we might have to do that with was next year is name it the. The Bradley Beal Memorial worst contract draft. Cause I think it's the single worst one. Con Cannippa goes to Charlotte at number four. We could see this one coming for a while. Perfect offensive fit. We got to meet the five Kipple brothers. Enjoyed that. And as. As much as I am excited to watch this team on offense, there's going to be some trouble on defense. Guys, this is not going to go great. I don't know. The only problem on offense when you're playing Charlotte is you have no idea who to hunt. There's just too many options. It's like paralyzing Kyle.

[J. Kyle Mann]

That could be their advantage. Yeah, they just in their excitement, they get indecisive and then Charlotte scores a bunch of points. That's. That's one philosophy, right?

[Joe House]

Yeah.

[J. Kyle Mann]

I mean you and I were joking earlier about. I mean hypothetically, who would you have to have at the 4 and 5 spot to make this a defense that could keep its head above water? I think you'd have. You'd have to have. Anthony Davis. You'd have to have. I don't know man. It's. That's tough sledding.

[Joe House]

There's going to be a lot of playing center. Who plays center for Charlotte? They're all on Phoenix now.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know. After Mark Williams, Charlotte was just aggressively trying to trade for him and the Lakers backed out of his physical even though they needed a center. And now Charlotte is again shopping him in June. I would just be really nervous acquiring Mark Williams with this team's just like, hey, how about Mark Williams? Any Interest you like him. And somehow they ended up getting a first. I think they got the 29th pick and then a future first which wasn't nearly as good as the one New Orleans gave up. We're not ready to talk about that yet. We will talk about this first New Orleans pick though. Jeremiah Fears at number seven. Where did you have how high, Kyle, how much higher did you have Trey Johnson than Jeremiah Fears? Just in your head mentally from a ceiling standpoint, if Trey Johnson goes 20 floors, how high were the, how many floors did the Jeremiah Fears building go?

[J. Kyle Mann]

I mean this was, this was one that I was off consensus on. I mean, I had fears at 20 in our final big board. It's a tricky conversation because on the one hand I do acknowledge and see how well to answer your question, I mean I had Trey it for Trey Johnson for just because I thought the simple, like the simple propositions of him. Even if his star upsides don't play out, this is a dude that you're just going to be able to throw like a freaking, like you know, pinball around an offense and just make him run. If he, if he, that's another guy. If he dedicates himself to just being a marathon man in offense and just sitting screens and running around, it'll work. But Jeremiah Fears, he definitely is like arguably the most like electric, like, you know, ball handler in this class. Like he can get in the pain, he's very smooth, he has a nice gait to his game. But the data just says, I had this written down here. There are some sites that sort of compile statistics across all event types going back to like the earliest stuff that they've done. And I was looking at Fears and you know, from sample to sample you can kind of argue this way or that and be like with Liam McNeely, be like, I've seen him shoot the ball in the past. I don't trust this one with Fears, it's been pretty consistent. He overall on their database is 28.4%. That goes back to 20, 21. I feel like that's the type of shooter he is. So if you're going to trust that that guy's going to be a load bearing decision maker, you're just already kind of encountering problems and then you go ahead and combine that with the fact that he has a lot of defensive questions. Granted, he's young, he's got a lot to learn. The combination of those two things just make me really queasy. So I had a hard time going seven there. I had A hard time thinking of reaching for him there.

[Joe House]

I.

[J. Kyle Mann]

He's one of those guys that you're like I like him but not at that spot. And that's kind of how I felt about him at seven.

[Bill Simmons]

That's how I felt. Joe House did the most homework on him because he was worried the Wizards were going to take him at 6.

[J. Kyle Mann]

How worried?

[Bill Simmons]

Is that where you landed House?

[Joe House]

No, no. I wouldn't even really countenance that that outcome. I didn't think he, he's, he's. He's not very big and it doesn't make sense for Washington to have a not very big point guard. Six to you know, barely not even.

[Bill Simmons]

186 to not a good three point shooter seems like a recipe for disaster. Who are the dudes that the smaller ball handling can't hit three's guards that you could even think of at this point. And if you're going to be like that, you have to be like a really great two way player which I don't think he is. He's 18. He's a project. Who knows. And when you read this stuff he's definitely. They made a point of saying this in the draft. He's one of those. I'll remember every guy that got taken ahead of me. He's one of those guys. He played football and baseball all the way I think through high school. Like he's a great athlete.

[Joe House]

What do you think?

[Bill Simmons]

The shooting makes me really nervous though for if it was the 13th pick, I get it. But seventh in a draft that I think we all thought was pretty deep. That's a little scary.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Yeah. To be fair to him that was six two and a half barefooted. He'll be six four functionally on the court or six five and a quarter wingspan. But he just. Yeah, he's a good decision at maker at the. When he sees like that first read when the defense is loaded to one side or another, he's not a hog. He'll get off the ball. And he did lead a competent team in the toughest. You know if you're going to apologize for him. He did lead a team to the tournament and had a good showing in a Gaming at UConn in the first round as a young player so. But the guys that I kind of pulled that statistically flagged as similar to him were Keonte George, hold your nose. Killian Hayes, Jalen Green and other. His g. His G league sample was similar. And then Jade Nivey. If you want to feel good, if you want to say but you know, Jay Nivey was different size, not the same type. Yeah. So it's just kind of. I'm with you. It's. I'm, I'm a little concerned about him being like a heavy, heavy decision maker for me.

[Bill Simmons]

I. Once we got out of the top six, which I thought was pretty established, that was the tier. And then I thought Fears was, was below. I. The guy I liked the most was Malach. I just feel like he's just not worried about him being in a competent NBA center who might actually be a lot better than that. And that was the guy house wanted at 6. If Ace Bailey didn't drop there and he ends up falling all the way to 10. And you know, I, and I'm writing down in my notes, not to skip over Brooklyn and Toronto and 8, 9, but I'm writing down in my notes. These are my notes in as it's happening. Ishbia, exclamation point. He's back. Green Brooks and Maliage for KD isn't bad. That was my next note. Oh, wait. They're also trading for Mark Williams.

[Joe House]

Why?

[Bill Simmons]

It all happened in like three minutes. House.

[Joe House]

I understand.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like, oh, wait, what are you guys doing? And they traded the 29th pick, which they actually needed this year. Cause it's not like they have a shitload of depth and then a 29 first. That is not, not their own pick. But I don't, I just don't understand why you would have Mark Williams and Malawatch. What's the point of having both those guys? House?

[Joe House]

I, I, I don't know. I have no idea.

[J. Kyle Mann]

I said they are different. I mean, they're both lob threats, they're both limited offensive players. The scheme, versatility is the one thing that you can kind of twist because for now, Moloch is a little heavier on drop coverage. And you know, Williams will give you a little bit more of that. Get out. Sit down. Switch a little bit. And he's a little older and he'll be a little more ready in the short term because Moloch is just so young, you know, I mean like he's a.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe he doesn't play for two years.

[J. Kyle Mann]

So that might be the thinking.

[Bill Simmons]

Devin bilker will be 30 by that point. Makes sense.

[J. Kyle Mann]

We got years to burn, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he's fine. He's not going anywhere. He's committed to the team. We had a weird thing with that pick where they just can't get this right. And I thought of a great suggestion. When. Cause Houston trades that pick to Phoenix in the Durant trade. We all know that's the trade. They have to do the draft and then have Houston pick him because the trade can't be official until July 6th. House. Why can't they just say Houston has traded the number 10 pick to Phoenix for future considerations. Phoenix is now on the clock at 10 and just say way afterwards, here's what the trade is. Instead of doing this fucking charade with the Houston hat. And then you're watching the draft and it's like, Brooklyn's picking, but it's actually Memphis. And now it's Memphis pick. No, this is Portland's pick. But, like, what are they doing? How is this where we landed with the NBA draft, one of our favorite nights?

[Joe House]

Well, I want to go backwards one step, which is to complain in this direction. Why is the draft tonight? What possible explanation after the season ends on Sunday night, why isn't it at a minimum Thursday? At a minimum?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know.

[Joe House]

Like, as we go into the weekend, as folks, you know, have discharged their weekly obligations and are ready to focus on the sporting world.

[Bill Simmons]

Scared there for a second discharge.

[Joe House]

Yeah, I know that.

[Bill Simmons]

We're headed turn a nerve massage. Our first Durham massage.

[Joe House]

No, no, don't even. Ready for a draft party. Ready for a draft party on a Thursday night. Let us catch our breath.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I'm exhausted.

[Joe House]

I mean, I'm. I'm not just. I expect. I wanted to be drunk. I told Simmons, jkm, that if we got either Ace Bailey or Malawatch, that I was going to pop the bottle and be ready. But since that didn't happen, I'm honestly drunk on exhaustion because of, you know, going straight from the finals Sunday evening into Monday. Trying to process it.

[Bill Simmons]

But you're trying to process the. The Halliburton injury title.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Couldn't even crack open a light lager for Trey Johnson. He doesn't what level of buzz.

[Bill Simmons]

I agree. That's at least like a nice, heavy alcohol high ipa.

[Joe House]

That's a High Noon. That's a High Noon at best. That's like a pineapple High Noon.

[Bill Simmons]

House, is he the best shooter you've had since you became the Wizards, or is there a better one?

[Joe House]

Bradley Beale is a much better shooter. Bradley, Bill could shoot his ass off. He led the league in scoring. There were some early education.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm not talking score. I'm talking, let me tell you, pure shooter.

[Joe House]

Go back and look at the comps for Bradley Beal. Early in his career, he was on a Ray Allen arc. I'm not kidding.

[Bill Simmons]

You're right. 2017 playoffs. He was really good. Yeah, you're right.

[Joe House]

Early, early. He didn't get. He didn't get to the Ray Allen. But I'm just saying like the comps were there for the quality of shooter.

[Bill Simmons]

That this is before he racked up a body count of murdered son savants. That's before he killed the fan base of a million million Phoenix Suns lovers. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. During the season, every baseball team plays 162 games. It's a true test of endurance. It's not enough to have a hot month or two. You need sustained dominance throughout. Well, the same is true for your small business. It's not enough to have a great Q2, even a great year. You want year over year growth that starts with better hires that'll be there for the long haul. To find Those hires, use LinkedIn. LinkedIn has strong hiring data and insights that you won't find anywhere else to help pair you with the best candidates, from unique skills and interests to the connections you have in common. Based on LinkedIn data, 72% of small businesses say that LinkedIn helps them find high quality talent. LinkedIn also lets you go beyond people who are actively applying. In a given week, 171 million LinkedIn members aren't actively seeking jobs, but they are open to new opportunities. That's a big pool to miss out on. If you're not hiring with LinkedIn. Find your next great hire on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com Simmons that's LinkedIn.com Simmons to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Cracking open a cold one on a hot summer day is one of the best feelings, but it's even better when it feels like you earned it. Like in a friendly little competition. It's always better when there's something worth playing for. And MLO Bo Superior Light Beer is a pretty great prize. Hmm. I would. I mean, I would be all tennis for Mick Loeb Ultras, because that's what I do all summer. Because tennis is an actual sport, unlike pickleball. So tennis, doubles, singles, whatever. Let's play for an Ultra. Fill your fridge with Michelob Ultra this [e-mail]. enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2025 Anheuser Busch Michelob Ultra Light Beer St. Louis, MO this episode is brought to you by Yeti Summer is basically here, and if you're getting outside, you need to check out YETI Hard coolers. They're built like tanks. Super durable, they hold ice for days. Like they're Tundra 65. Iconic for a reason. Just an absolute beast for tailgates or tournaments. The Roadie 32 wheeled cooler. That one's awesome. You can pack it with a ton. Just roll it along. And if you want something super portable, the Roadie 15 is perfect. It even fits wine bottles. Find your cooler and gear up for summer with yeti hard coolers. Okay, the eighth and ninth pick. So the draft's going great. It's going chalk, basically. I didn't really have a problem with any pick and I'm like, whoa, this is going to be a pretty boring podcast tonight. Nobody's going to do anything stupid. And then the dumb teams just come flying in. It's like they arrived late. It was like, wait, what's that? I hear a horn.

[Joe House]

Is that.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, somebody's pulling the parking lot. Oh, it's the dumb teams. Hey, it's Brooklyn. Hey, New Orleans, we're here. Sean Marx is like, oh, hold on, hold on.

[Joe House]

Holding a Yugo.

[J. Kyle Mann]

It's definitely a trick horn of some kind. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And they take the BYU kid, number eight, who I thought was more likely. He fell into the 20s. Kyle, like, try to make the case here. Why you would take him at 8?

[J. Kyle Mann]

I'll say the positives. He is probably the most talented ball screen reader, like reader of reeds and creative passer manipulation wise. Like, he can see, he can see the first help defender. He can see the second, the tertiary, whatever it is, he can manipulate those things really, really, really well. Make any pass with either hand. And he's big. I mean, I think he's the most creative passer in this draft. He's a smart kid. I interviewed him on our show. I was very impressed with how aware he was of his challenges, which are he has a high center of gravity, he's very skinny. At this point, he is not a threat to hit dribble play. He back rimmed a huge percentage of his of his threes. I don't know if that's some kind of mechanical thing that they can figure out. I'm not a shot doctor. I know they work with a really smart shot doctor. We'll see. But then I guess the other thing is he wasn't great in the paint either. And he's going to get attacked defensively. People are going to play through his chest. But I mean, the nets are interesting.

[Bill Simmons]

Hold on. So you're saying can't really shoot. He's going to get attacked defensively and also not really that good in the paint. That's n too skinny.

[J. Kyle Mann]

He is skinny. I don't know how much stronger he'll get.

[Bill Simmons]

Sounds like a win.

[Joe House]

But look, here's the thing. The comps and jkm, you did the write up for the ringer draft. These, these comps belong in the top 10 of a draft of a draft. Sean Livingston and Josh Giddey, those are, those are like, those are competent basketball players.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Shades of those guys.

[Joe House]

The biggest bubble is Sean Livingston.

[J. Kyle Mann]

It's true. Yeah, yeah. I mean, was drafted by Washington.

[Joe House]

You put Denny in this mix. Denny was a top 10 pick.

[Bill Simmons]

Bite your tongue on Sean Livingston. Pre injury. Sean Livingston was awesome.

[Joe House]

He's outrageous.

[J. Kyle Mann]

More late stage, like reform point guard. I can't be the primary guy.

[Joe House]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Can I give you my comp? I didn't release my player comps, but mine was Yaroslav Korolev, the Clippers 2012 first rounder. Had to watch him for a couple years. See you guys didn't remember who it was. Number 12 pick in the draft. Yeah, it's like, oh, he does all that. It's like, what does he do? Yeah, no, I didn't like the pick at all. Listen, I'm happy to be wrong. I'm happy to. I'm sure if he's awesome, this quit will get cut out. I'd be like, oh, you got one wrong. I just. Number eight. I just know it's a pure. No, it was high.

[J. Kyle Mann]

I mean it's an interesting theme. I wrote about this in our grades that we put up that the Nets clearly were following a theme of rolling the dice on creators. I don't think they expected Wolf to be there where he was, but they took Seraph, who has a similar profile, you know, a big. But he's a little different. He's a different side of the coin there where he's very. I, I put this in, in the grades also. He's. He's one of the main guys in the, in this class that fall under one of my favorite distinctions, which is he has some shit to him. He is, he's just an aggressive player that might make give him a better chance to succeed than Jaeger. I don't know. I doubt it. I just think if you shift Jaeger to an off because 46% of his touches were pick and rolls this past year. That is insanely high. He had a huge demand on him to create for byu and I think if you put him with other creators and he's shooting off the catch a little more roaming in the seams of an offense with that passing ability. There are paths for it to work, I think.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, but it's an identity team. They took three guards because we didn't talk about the French kid at number 19. But they took three guards, plus Danny Wolf, who everybody's like, he's a point center. He needs the ball to. He needs the ball to thrive. So it's like, cool. You took a bunch of guys who need the ball to have any sort of success at all. Sounds like you did a. I just. I don't get the Nets and I don't get the Sean Marks thing at all. And I think he's probably a nice guy, but he's kept that job for a long time. And I just don't. I don't get it. I don't see it. I don't understand why you would want five first round picks in the same draft. We see teams do this all the. How many? House, we're fucking old now. How many times have we seen a team put too many young guys together and then a year later they're like, hey, last year we had too many young guys. We got to get some bets. It was so stupid to have all those young guys.

[Joe House]

I mean, I'm living through it right now. We drafted three in the 2024 draft.

[Bill Simmons]

You went and got Marcus Smart and Chris Middleton. You got some adults to be near them.

[Joe House]

Okay, all right. One. And. And crucially, bid ado to Jordan Pool, which I wish the best of luck to Jordan Poole, who actually had a fine season last year.

[Bill Simmons]

You like Jordan Pool, don't you? The guy in college who's pretending he doesn't like the girl at the party that he keeps leaving? You like Jordan Pool.

[Joe House]

I intensely disliked him when he arrived and.

[Bill Simmons]

But you ended up liking him.

[Joe House]

He found. They found a role for him. He found a role for himself. But we're not here to talk about the Washington Wizards.

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't like what the Nets did at all. Toronto took Colin Murray Boyles, leading Kendrick Perkins. I didn't know which telecast to watch. It was like, do I take this samurai sword and jam it into my temple or do I take this chainsaw and saw my leg off? I just. I just. I couldn't figure it out. Perk, they took Colin Murray Boyles, and Perk said they have the pieces and they're a top six team in the East. And at that point I started looking for a third ESPN channel, but there are only two covering the draft. There wasn't a third one. At least One that I couldn't find, but I didn't mind that pick. And then malawatch at 10. And then we had a trade. And then the draft started getting really weird. Cedric Coward. Memphis moves up with Portland. Malika calls him Colin Coward, which was exciting. I thought Colin Coward got drafted for a second. They basically traded the 16 and Orlando's 28 first to move up five spots. Kyle. I didn't like this guy. This was one of my guys that I was kind of out on.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Oh, okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Because I felt like I had this ag. I have to. I can't go through the draft. And just like every guy, there's this one I just didn't get. But now Memphis traded up to get him. And now I'm just going to assume I'm wrong. Because Memphis is usually right with these guys and that with these dudes, they find they just have too high of a success rate. So I'm going to take the loss. He hasn't even played an NBA game left. And I think I'm wrong.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Don't give up that easily. Dig in a little bit at least.

[Bill Simmons]

No, I'm not digging in. Memphis has the way better track record. They like something. I don't see it, but they see something.

[J. Kyle Mann]

What don't you. What are you worried about? I mean, can we just go itemize line by line here? What's your concern?

[Bill Simmons]

The. So first.

[Joe House]

Come on, Jib.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, starts out. What was he? Where did he go freshman year? I'm trying. I'm blanking. I'm trying.

[J. Kyle Mann]

D3, Willamette.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And kind of worked his way up, right. And peaked this year. I just didn't feel like the athleticism was there in a way that would translate to the NBA. Even though in college it looked fine. The stuff that, like those type of guys who succeeded, I still feel like there. You have to be at a certain really high level athletically to do all that stuff. And he was like. You could even see in college it felt like he was pushing it. So I don't know. I might be wrong. Maybe Memphis sees some things that I didn't see. What did you see?

[J. Kyle Mann]

The positivity that I would mix in is that I think his frame, which is like six, five and a half. You know, we've said this over and over again. Cause it's so damn impressive. But seven two wingspan, huge hands. Um, he's built like a. Like, he's built. He's got a just capital T frame. He's got enormous shoulders. But I think that can lead people to think that he is in. He's some kind of nuclear incendiary fly around pogo stick kind of athlete when really he's more of a. He is a good athlete. You know, I think he had like a 38 inch vert but he has more like punish you with. With physicality in his game. He's not as much of a. He's. I wouldn't worry about that because I think he's going to be a lot more of a punish you with technique and physique type player because if you watch the way he developed, he's not like an on, like he's not an off the dribble creator quite yet. But he's a pretty decent passer. But he would just punish dudes.

[Bill Simmons]

There was some back to the basket, like put the shoulder into the guy. I don't know if that works in the same way in the pros.

[J. Kyle Mann]

I don't think it works full time but I think you're just kind of looking for creases and wrinkles in your game that you can exploit in different situations. I think he has a lot of them. I mean he was a catch and shoot player. I have this, my ledger here. He shot, we'll just say a gigantic amount of catch and shoot threes across. He was getting ready to ramp up and take a ton during this past year before he got hurt. But he shot about 40% catch and shoot. So if he punishes mismatches, don't put a smaller guard on him. He's got a great mid range game. He's long and athletic around the rim. I don't know, I like him. I think he's going to be great with Jalen Wells there in that offense.

[Joe House]

I want to take all those things and put them on Trey Johnson then I would be so psyched with that. Those attributes on Trey Johnson at the sixth pick, that's. I mean the combination. First of all, Willamette, amazing Pinot but going from there to him landing in Memphis, you know what I'm saying? Bs it shows that he's going to be competent on both ends because they don't typically draft, you know. Yeah, they have.

[Bill Simmons]

Memphis has a type.

[Joe House]

Yep. And he's their type. And that three point shooting plus the physicality, that's. That's the recipe for a top 10 guy. So where you see him, you know, going 11 here, that's why he gets the nice B plus grade from JKM.

[Bill Simmons]

I won't say what Joe House's type was back in the day, pre marriage, but Joe House Had a type too. He was much like Memphis.

[J. Kyle Mann]

A lot of Joe House, dating and drinking, talking. I'm glad to be here.

[Bill Simmons]

Somebody breaks to the table.

[Joe House]

Late night, we're alive. Late night.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm admitting defeat. I think, how about this? I think Cedric Howard's gonna be great on Memphis. I don't want to take the loss on this. This next pick, the Bull, the bulls took the 18 year old. Say his name. I'm going to mess it up. I'm not even going to attempt it.

[Joe House]

It rhymes with dengue.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Sengay is what I've heard.

[Joe House]

People, I was cracking up. Dengue fever.

[J. Kyle Mann]

18 was like dumping on him right before he got picked and he walked.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh my frisk killing him. He said he quit on his, on his Euro team. But Chicago, it's a weird one. This is the kind of draft pick like Sam Presti is allowed to do. It's like we're, we're taking this kid. He's 18. He's a million years away from being anything. He's two years away from being two years away. And I'm going to be here as the GM still when this happens, I can't say the Chicago Bulls GM has been like crushing it. So by the time even if this pick hits, I don't even know if he'll be the GM at that point. But I thought this was really weird because we officially hit the point in this draft when I couldn't believe nobody had taken Derek Queen. It just felt like, okay, he shouldn't have fallen out of the top 11. Like he's not going to go 12 now. We're going to fall to 13. Hold that thought on Derek Queen. But I just like, I just would have taken Derek Queen if I'm Chicago. I kind of like their team. Like they have Vucevich on an expiring. They don't really have any other big guy centers. Like he's this gifted offensive player that kind of fits in with the weird offense they have. I think they need somebody like him. I just would have taken him.

[Joe House]

But.

[Bill Simmons]

What'd you think about that pick, Kyle?

[J. Kyle Mann]

Well, speaking to what you're talking about there, when you think of like an okc, I mean, I think you, you're kind of implying that. And OKC has been great at this. With their success, they've been able to slow roll these guys in a way that makes sense. It's sort of like this comes to mind just because my son is doing it right now like swimming lessons. There are a lot of ways to approach this it's like you could take it slow and get an instructor and, you know, move at their pace. Or you can just be one of those people that's just like throws your kid in the pool and says, fucking figure it out, buddy. That's kind of what I feel like is going to happen here. But he's. He's somebody that I. I had a hard time grading that one just because I'm like, mock boards always inform grades. And I'm like, I've been skeptical of a single. You know, I feel like he's an energy big who is sort of wearing a. I'm a big unrefined wing mask. And I'm like, I don't really know that he's ever going to be efficient enough to justify being that type of player. I would be a lot. I would feel a lot better if he were like, I'm dedicated to. Of course, then you'd flip it and I'd say, oh, we can't shoot. So it's kind of a. It's kind of a catch 22. But I don't know, man. That. That was one that I. I'm with you. I didn't really understand. I would have. I would probably reach for Queen there.

[Bill Simmons]

That was a. Look how smart we are. This 12 pick who might. Might not make it. Who has Queen is a DMV guy.

[Joe House]

So the only thing and. And we'll get to Queen soon enough. That I guess I could see if I'm looking at it. Trying to be glass half full for Chicago. If they are going to be a rim running team. Right. If Boozalis and Giddy. And Giddy is playmaking. Yeah. And this kid's just singularly. Get to the rim. Get to the rim. Get to the rim. Then there's a kind of logic to it. Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

I'll accept that. He fits in with their identity. I just don't like the pick. So I did like Derrick Queen going to New Orleans in a trade at number 13. And then we found out what the trade was. This was when I lost my mind. I think I blacked out. I'm so glad the NBA can still give us these. New Orleans trades up 10 spots so they can take Derek Queen and they give up their unprotected 20, 26 first round pick swap that they have with Milwaukee where they have the favorable. Whatever the better pick is. They keep. They send that to Atlanta who had to be deliriously happy. Like we only have to move down 10 spots and we get an unprotected. This was one of the five dumbest trades of this decade. I was speechless. I just can't believe it. And who is it? It's our guy, Joe Dumars, who was so bad in the first half of the 2010s, I got so much column mileage from him. He finally got bounced from the Pistons, never got another job, and then moved into the NBA. And everybody in the NBA loved him. And he's a great guy by all accounts. And enough time passed that everybody forgot how bad of a GM he was down in the. And now he just traded away their unprotected 20, 26 pick house. They're in the West. What the fuck does he think is going to happen next year? See, Thinking they're going to be a 5 seed.

[Joe House]

What is he doing the hilarious thing? And this is what. What we get to relish coming going forward is there. He. They're doing some kind of their version of 3D chess here because I think Zion is moving on. I think the point of Zion leaving CAA going over to Bill Duffy. There's a trade demand coming. Dara Queen fits a specific needs, plays a specific role for them. And they were just like, this is our plan. We have a plan. We're going to acquire him. And we can't, you know, let. Let the possibility they go that. That we don't get him for. For this. For this role.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, so you're saying they're trading their best player, which will inevitably make next year's team worse, and they're not going to have a pick after they trade that player. That makes sense to you.

[J. Kyle Mann]

And a conceivably better draft, from what.

[Joe House]

We understand, you would anticipate that any kind of Zion trade would include picks. I mean, is that reasonable?

[Bill Simmons]

So your only defense of that trade is the hypothetical that Zion might get traded, which by the way, would also then make them worse and they wouldn't have their pick.

[Joe House]

I said it's their version of 3D chess. It doesn't make any sense. It's just. It's just Dumars World.

[J. Kyle Mann]

It's.

[Bill Simmons]

This is one of those that Adam Silver, like you could have talked me into him vetoing. Like they vetoed the Chris Paul trade. That's how bad that trade was. Kyle, would Atlanta have done that trade if it was a top four protected pick? I'm going to say yes. Top four protected. Atlanta's like, we're still doing it. Top seven protected. I think they do that.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Probably. Probably.

[Bill Simmons]

I can't even imagine. They're showing all these war Rooms. They should have shown the Hawks war room. As guys are taking their shirts off, doing this and fucking popping champagne on each other. It was. It was probably like the.

[J. Kyle Mann]

We followed them to Magic City on the bus.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it was like the mushroom scene. And this is the end where they're just like going nuts. And I can't even imagine how deliriously happy they were. And I really like where Atlanta was sitting before tonight. And now they have this New Orleans pick. They have a $25 million trade exception. They added poor Zingis. Jalen Johnson's coming back. They got Dyson Daniels and Trey Young and Risa Shay and a congu House. It's. It's time to look at the conference odds.

[Joe House]

Don't think that I haven't already, but please.

[Bill Simmons]

You already did. You cheated on me.

[Joe House]

Of course.

[Bill Simmons]

What the hell?

[Joe House]

House.

[Bill Simmons]

They're not in the top six. 33 to 1 to win the East. Yes.

[Joe House]

That's a ticket that's in my portfolio. Bando sportsbook. Yes, sir.

[Bill Simmons]

33 to 1. What if they get DeMar DeRozan with that trade exception?

[Joe House]

All they have to do is make it to the Eastern Conference. They don't have to win for that ticket to have value. You have an amazing head with that 33 to 1 sitting in your pocket. That team. That's the. I still can't imagine one stop that they make in like. Dyson Daniels is incredible. I can't name one other player. I mean, Johnson's plays both ways for sure as well, but no, Johnson and.

[Bill Simmons]

Daniels as their two defenders. And then they'll. They'll be able to do some other stuff. We were texting a lot about Derrick Queen during the season because he bring. He brings some things to the table that I love. There's some defensive stuff with him that is about as bad as it gets. And it's going to be. He's going to be one of those guys where. I do think it's a. He's a ceiling basement guy, but there's some really good offensive stuff. The problem is some of the ways you would use him on offense are very similar to how like you would use, say, a Zion Williamson, who's also.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Just hypothetically no idea how those two.

[Bill Simmons]

Guys would play together. Makes no sense at all.

[J. Kyle Mann]

No, they don't. They are. They have mirroring issues for sure. But he's. He's. He. You're right. I mean, he's got a lot of things that you like. I mean, the connectivity of his passing. I was saying on our. On the draft show that in that 18ft to the rim area, he, he roasts other bigs with his foot speed, with his balance. He can contort. He just does some things that are odd for a player of his body type. He's not super explosive. But you mentioned the defensive stuff. I think a lot of that's controllable for him. I mean, if you're banking on him ever being, if you're banking on him being your rim protector, then you, you should just have to take a breathalyzer before you even are qualified to, to, to run a team. Because I, I, that was so obvious. He doesn't have the size to be a rim protector. He's more of a help defender. And the big thing for him too is he has great hands, he does have mobile hips, even though he's not super fast and he's a great defensive rebounder. It's, it's more of a play to play. Is he going to mature to the point where he starts taking that personally? Because people have just said this about him relentlessly and I know this stuff's gotten back to him about on the defensive glass or just on the glass, period. It's like, oh, where's my man? Oh, he just ran by me because I didn't touch him and he got an easy basket. That happened over and over again. And just consistency of effort because he can be, I think at least a neutral defender. It's just, it's going to be up to him whether or not he takes that personally and cuts out the taking, plays off and stuff like that.

[Bill Simmons]

He triggers a lot of my boxes because I like the creativity on offense. It's really special. I don't like the work ethic part and the taking plays off and the defensive liability part. Sam Bassini said something on Rossillo's pod about how he's just been playing against men for the last couple years as a big guy and just is seasoned with and that he thought he was actually a pretty good bet to be able to play faster than you think. To me, it's amazing. The Hawks fleece them two summers in a row. Two different front offices. The Dejounte Murray trade was a fleecing and then this happens. That is house. They might have the championship belt now of biggest mess of a team. I think this is it. I think giving away next year's first round pick and making it unprotected. I think they grabbed the belt. Wow. I think Sacramento was like, we just got it back. What do you mean we just. And they just took it back, like without blinking.

[Joe House]

It's very.

[Bill Simmons]

Not to mention they're putting Jeremiah Fears and Jordan Pool together.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Oh, boy. I thought that the Wizards traded Jeremiah Pool away so that Fears would fit better. And then when they picked Fears, I was like, oh, I'm way off with my logic with this. I thought that's what they were doing.

[Bill Simmons]

House and Trey Murphy's got to be like, why am I here? What is this theme?

[Joe House]

That's exactly right. This. This is the most confounding team I. I was trying to come up with. I mean, even Charlotte feels like it has a point. It feels like it has a direction. Phoenix is like in this conversation. Got to keep Phoenix. You know, there. There's still.

[Bill Simmons]

Phoenix does have Phoenix. So I thought Sacramento took it back from Phoenix, but you're right. Phoenix still has it.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Sacramento made a good pick tonight. When we get to it, when did.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe Sacramento is right in the ship a little bit. But I mean, Sacramento turning Fox and Halliburton into Zach Levine, that's like an all timer. Um, not to mention the Sabonis extension on that stuff. But yeah, you're right. I think so. Phoenix probably had it and then New Orleans just took it. And New Orleans has had this belt. I mean, they're. They're basically like the Russell Celtics with this belt. They've had it nine different times over the course of. Since the mid-70s.

[Joe House]

You have to remember how close the Pelicans were though, to turning the corner.

[Bill Simmons]

They've been close a couple times, like for five seconds.

[Joe House]

Yeah, but.

[Bill Simmons]

But I mean, they had a playing game against LeBron and then that. And then the moment was over.

[Joe House]

They were on a pace for over 50 wins just a year ago.

[Bill Simmons]

They got 40 first round picks for Anthony Davis.

[Joe House]

I get it. I'm just saying they were.

[Bill Simmons]

They won the lottery.

[Joe House]

The problem I have with Derek, with.

[Bill Simmons]

My guy Queen DMV thing.

[Joe House]

Yeah. It's just maturity is still under development and you can eyeball. You can use your own eyeballs and look at his body type and reach a conclusion that maybe he hasn't maximized all that's available to him to turn himself into the kind of beast that he might be in terms of a physical specimen. It would be one thing if he.

[Bill Simmons]

Was going to New Orleans where this is the point.

[Joe House]

That's the point.

[Bill Simmons]

There's so much healthy food there and clean living.

[Joe House]

We just. They just lived through a guy who had a maturity issue and maybe an issue where maximize. Yeah, so. And Derek is not 18 years old. This is like it Would be one thing to say. Yeah, he's pudgy. He's 18 or he's 19 or whatever.

[Bill Simmons]

He's pushing up.

[Joe House]

He's closer to 21 than he is to 18. So.

[Bill Simmons]

So you don't think he's on the versa climber at five in the morning like LeBron?

[Joe House]

Here's the thing. He can do that. It's there. They have versa climbers. They can get one down to New Orleans and he could become the beast that we're talking about. He could make that commitment. You know, he can get that challenge on the defensive end and become that guy. I hope he does. He was. It was great to have Maryland viable for. For a. For a basketball season here most recently. And it makes some noise in the tournament. I want the kid to succeed. It feels like it's up to the kid.

[Bill Simmons]

Joe Dumars was so bad in Detroit that I once wrote in a column that I wanted to sell Joe Dumars Cap Space cologne. You only have to spray it once, and then you can't get away from the smell for three to five years. Remember when he was handing out all those terrible contracts? Everyone forgets how bad Joe Dumars was.

[J. Kyle Mann]

It's been 11 years, right? Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Unfortunately, he has Sean Marks and some others. I feel like we're almost like atrocious GM Summit territory.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Oh, you're going to fire it back up close.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. We almost have enough teams again. House is giddy.

[Joe House]

Yeah. I'm trying to think of all the teams.

[Bill Simmons]

We got Vivek, we got. We got Ishpia, we have New Orleans.

[J. Kyle Mann]

You got a lot of character voices to write to as well. I think this is prime.

[Joe House]

I feel like Chicago could be in the running.

[Bill Simmons]

Chicago, Jerry Reinsdorf never paid the luxury tax.

[J. Kyle Mann]

I will say. I will say on Queen. One thing he. One apologetic thing I would say is that he. Considering where he was like a couple years ago, he has made progress. He has worked on his body. So I hope he continues that.

[Bill Simmons]

By the way, I like the value at 13.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

That pick was top 10 protected. I would have liked the trade, but it's unprotected in a draft that everybody is saying is awesome. It's insane. There's no counter argument. That is an insane thing to do, to do that. This episode is brought to you by Redfin. I love looking at real estate. You could be in the market to buy or rent, whatever it is. You might just like scrolling around, seeing what's out there. You might like checking out neighborhoods, then going to Google Earth. And then checking out the overhead thing in the neighborhood. I don't know. Whatever floats your boat. You might like looking at big mansions on the water in Massachusetts. I can neither confirm or deny. I've never done that. Whatever reason you're looking, I recommend the Redfin app. Redfin. It's gotten better every single year. It makes it fun to search all the homes for sale, apartments for rent in your neighborhood, filter for price. Beds, baths, square footage, so much more. And if you find a place you love, Redfin makes it really easy to go see it in person. Schedule a tour right now from the app. Plus, if you're looking to sell, Redfin agents know how to get you the best price possible for your home. That's because they close twice as many deals as other agents. And with a listing fee as low as 1%, Redfin's fees are half of what others often charge, which means you'll have more money to put toward your next home. So whether you're looking to buy, rent, or sell, Redfin's got you covered. Download the Redfin app to get started. This episode is brought to you by. Visit Myrtle Beach. If you're dreaming of a beachy summer escape, then head to the beach In Myrtle Beach, S.C. you'll find 60 miles of stunning coastline, hundreds of attractions to explore, and the South's newest foodie hotspot. This is where you play hard and beach easy. You belong at the beach. Myrtle Beach, S.C. start planning your summer adventure at visit myrtlebeach.

[Joe House]

Com.

[Bill Simmons]

So then, of course, the smart teams come up. San Antonio and OKC. At 14 and 15, it's like, all right, here we go. San Antonio's gonna take Carter Bryant. He's supposed to go, like, in the 9, 10 range. He'll go 14. Nice pick. They just hang out as everybody else fucks up okc. They take Sorber from Georgetown. Cool. He won't play for a year. They'll let Hartenstein go. All of a sudden, he'll be playing 20 minutes a game. Know how that's gonna go? Did you let you. Why? You watch him at Georgetown House.

[Joe House]

Decent amount. He's big. He moves fine. Yep, exactly right.

[Bill Simmons]

Arms up, guy. Decent footwork. He'll play for them.

[Joe House]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then Portland takes Priscilla's guy. Yang Hansen.

[J. Kyle Mann]

That's Priscilla's guy.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, Priscilla loved him at the combine. That was his guy.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

And he was our first guy from the stands. And then just a couple more really quick. Utah taking one.

[Joe House]

Hold on.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Are we not going to acknowledge that they massively reached France And Yang, I.

[Bill Simmons]

Mean, did they massively reach or was it the steal of the draft?

[J. Kyle Mann]

It's all right. I may live to be the 7.

[Bill Simmons]

Foot 2 Chinese guy who can throw backdoor cuts and doesn't speak English. I loved it.

[Joe House]

Did he. Did he work out against the chair?

[Bill Simmons]

No, he was in the. He went to the NBA combine and played everybody and really impressed everybody and actually increased his stock. Who knows? We're at the point of the draft where it's done. But Yakushunas, who's just dropping now, pissed about this. And I'm watching, going like, I'm rooting for the Celtics, maybe to trade up because he was one of my favorite guys and I, I know he can't go by anybody, but as a pick and roll, using the pick and roll and I just. That guy's an NBA player and you think the Nets are going to take him because they took Jaeger and it's like, well, may as well take that guy too, and maybe you'll go one for two. But they take Traore. I don't like the French guys in this draft. I think we'd had a nice little French run and now we're due for one of those, like off years for French guys. And then Miami, as usual, classic. Just like Danny Granger, Karan Butler, Tyler Hera. You just go on through all the.

[Joe House]

Khalil.

[Bill Simmons]

Air Khalil. It just, it, it just always happens for them and it happens again and Yakushun is false to them. And I tweeted that I thought Sean Marks should be arrested and which I still kind of feel it's just bothered like, you shouldn't get that guy at 20. How did they do it, Kyle?

[J. Kyle Mann]

Honestly, I don't have the intel on that yet. But I mean, it is crazy that he fell. I mean, I think our final ranking was seven just because he's somebody that I think seven. He's a very smart player. He's very young. He's got great size, he's got a frame. He's going to be big and strong. I don't, I don't think that he does. He played a lot of. On a lot on ball at Illinois and it got a little yakety sacks at times because he had a wrist injury and people started blitzing him and he was on like not a super physical team. So you just, you start to see him get a little wasteful. But I think when you compress him and scale him down, which I think is what's going to happen, he's not going to scale up. I think if you put him in that supportive role, he shoots it pretty decently well off the catch, and then he's one of those guys that I always say are just like a comma in a sentence on offense. It's just like he's. He's not a stopper. He's not a period. He's just like, here's. Here's a comma that we keep moving like we're going towards getting a basket. And I think that he's. He's just going to be a nice, bolstering secondary creator for them. Yeah, it's a great pick.

[Bill Simmons]

He's a Daryl More remodel guy. I figured out Daryl More his motto in, like, the early 2010s, and he's a model guy. He just put. He fills the box score. He'll play for Miami. He'll play 23 minutes a game next year, and he'll get, like 12 points, five assists, five rebounds, one steal. Like, he just. He's just going to be good. It really is annoying to me. And they're going to sign Kaminga or do some sort of sign and trade with him, and guess what? He'll be good for them, too. And then all of a sudden, I'll be like, jesus Christ, we're back with the Heat. We thought we killed them. We thought they were dead. We thought we cut their head off. House, they're back.

[Joe House]

I took a look at their odds for the Eastern Conference. Just because we're. We're sleeping. Don't sleep. It's an insane number in view of.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, they don't have a lot of talent.

[Joe House]

They don't.

[Bill Simmons]

They don't at the moment, but, wow, 50 to 1.

[Joe House]

That's what. That's all. That's what I'm saying. Right. It's Miami. Somehow they keep showing up in the Eastern Conference finals once every three years over the last, you know, 12 years or so.

[Bill Simmons]

I was wondering if. Cause they have Duncan Robinson. He makes 19 million next year, but you can waive it and only pay 9. And I was wondering if there was some sort of Celtics, Anthony Simons, Robinson coming back, and then they waved the thing, and that enables them to create more cash. And then they could pay Horford and Cornette. But I feel like that Robinson contract is tradable and they could actually get somebody for him from a team that needs to cut money. I have my eye on it. That really made me mad. Kyle, give me your favorite pick in the last 15.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Oh, honestly, it probably is Clifford, honestly, like, yeah, he's. I like the fit with Jace Richardson in Orlando as well. He's. He was lower on my board because of the issues, the size issues and things like that. But in that.

[Bill Simmons]

So Clifford went to Sacramento, who lost the championship belt and made a good pick.

[J. Kyle Mann]

I had a Clifford stat that I really liked. Hold on. I pulled this up. Cause I was charting out. He's a guy who was in college. Some of these guys, it's a newer phenomenon, but they stay, they're staying. They're getting the opportunity to stay around and make money and get better. And then it's that same concept again of scaling down. This is a dude who I always just kind of keep an eye out on guys who see a huge uptick in responsibility and keep the boat steady. Not only did he do that picking role reps from his first senior year to his second senior year, he had 48 in the first year and 139 in the following year. And he upped his efficiency from 0.56 to 1.086. So huge uptick. And he like vastly improved his efficiency, which says to me that this is a guy who can. He just has a skill building skill and he's somebody that shoots the ball really well. He added a little bit of post game. He's not going to be used to the extent that he was at Colorado State on some good teams, but he's going to be a very capable catch and shoot spacer for them. I love that pick. I think it's going to work.

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't allow myself to root for him to fall into the Celtics because I knew it wasn't realistic. It was like yakushunas. But it was like in the back of my head as we went to the 20s and some of the teams did some stupid stuff. It was like. And then it was just not going to happen. I like that one as well. Danny Wolf house. Did you crunch any Danny Wolf tape getting ready for the draft or not really. This is somebody who became a. Who became a. A cult figure of this draft.

[Joe House]

Jay Kyle recommended that I get into some. Some Danny. I. I didn't do it. I can assure you that. That a guy that I did not have on my radar or pay any attention to was Riley. I certainly didn't spend any time looking into Will Riley as a. As a potential guy that was going.

[Bill Simmons]

To land up with him at 21.

[Joe House]

I know. I'm. I'm aware, but I honestly don't think that's a terrible pick. Again, by by the Nets. I actually think for 610, 250the playmaking twenties, who cares? Yeah, I don't think it's that bad of a pick.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm glass half empty on him. I just don't see it because I can't see the comp. Like when we get to the 20s, I need you to have one elite skill. That's even why Newell going to the Hawks. Newell can't shoot, but he tries really hard. And we've seen versions of him succeed. These 6 foot 8 long. My whole life depends on this quarter. The coach put me in for five minutes. I'm just going to lose my mind. I've seen that work. Right. And sometimes it doesn't work. Like Jordan Walsh on the Celtics. It hasn't worked. There's guys where it doesn't work, but there's a prototype for him.

[J. Kyle Mann]

And I sold Walsh to you, so I regret that I'm still pulling. I'm crossing my fingers that that one's going to come through.

[Bill Simmons]

He can't shoot at all. He takes a thousand corner threes a day and they, they're still not going in. So I guess the Danny Wolf thing, if you're going to say that's going to work, that would be okay. It's. It's a tall. He's little Lori Markinish marketing ish with the ball and he, he's good. He can run. Set him some picks and he can be a mismatch. But I just, I don't, I don't see how on a winning team that is somebody who could be out there.

[J. Kyle Mann]

He's a role player on a winning team.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean could he be like the 9th, 10th man? Maybe. I don't know. Is there anybody that didn't get drafted that you were shocked by? Kyle.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Oh, geez.

[Bill Simmons]

In the first because I really like the St. Joe's kid and he didn't get drafted.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Yeah, that was. I'm under consensus on him just because I don't totally trust the shooting to translate. He had a pretty good year this past year with prior years that didn't that I thought more reflected on who he is as a shooter. He kind of. He shoots on the way down in a way that's in a really flat ball that I just worry about it going in. And then you combine that with the fact that he is very yakety. Sacks, attacking closeouts like the dribble is high. I don't trust in that, you know, is going to limit him as a decision. Yeah, just. I don't have to give the full report, but I'm not big on him.

[Bill Simmons]

All right. So, House, how will you remember this draft?

[Joe House]

So close. Once again, for the Washington team, I will say my favorite pick of all, not even no joke, was Walter Clayton Jr. Going to Utah at that 18 pick because I think the combination of Ace Bailey and Walter Clayton Jr. I might. Let me ask if I can have permission to do this. I'm not going to pay attention to my team this. This upcoming season other than to check in sometimes to see how some of the rotations with the kids work out. They're not going to win at all. Utah might be on a different trajectory. They might actually try a little bit this upcoming season because those two kids they acquired are so dynamic. Am I permitted to, like, have a Western Conference team that I pay attention to and kind of invest in? It's no, no, no. I only have one team. It's these guys.

[Bill Simmons]

No, but I mean your late. Your league pass.

[Joe House]

Yeah, my league pass. Yeah. Do I have permission for that?

[Bill Simmons]

Utah, Listen, both Priscilla and I jumped on the Portland situation last year. It was fun. Yeah. It's like having an affair.

[Joe House]

They were good, too.

[Bill Simmons]

You just in a hotel, in a CD hotel room. You're in a Motel 6 with a West league. It's a west coast league Pass, team, league pass, affair, camera and scoop. It was fun. And then now they have Drew Holiday. Now they have some better leadership. I don't know what I mean. Utah has so many guys, I can't figure out what that team is. They're going to have Ace Bailey and Markkadin and Sexton and Clarkson and Keonte. George, you go through. It's like all of these dudes want to take some shots and have the ball and.

[Joe House]

Asset, asset, asset, asset.

[Bill Simmons]

It's all these assets that they're collecting. But for what? For Zion Williamson. What's the end game? I don't know. I don't think they know either. But I think they're just collecting assets. I think my favorite thing was Danny Ainge taking Ace Bailey and just showing everybody that, guess what it's called the draft. You don't get to decide where to go. If you don't like it, go back in college. Right? And that's it. What was your favorite thing, Kyle?

[J. Kyle Mann]

My favorite pick.

[Bill Simmons]

Your favorite anything from this draft.

[J. Kyle Mann]

I enjoy that. There was somebody close enough to one of the broadcast cameras to very audibly yell rigged as the night started it. I thought that was pretty funny.

[Joe House]

We should have been me. Ace.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Ace. It might have been House, Right, Ace. I'm not laughing at this, but I mean, he looked like he wanted to cry when. When they were talking to him like a. Normally you saw him earlier in the broadcast and he's. He's laughing and cutting up and a funny kid, and then he's very obvious somber shift to him. And you kept waiting for maybe the other. The other shoe to drop on that. But, yeah, the best one ever for.

[Bill Simmons]

That was Steve Francis. That was when we peaked.

[J. Kyle Mann]

I don't remember that broadcast.

[Joe House]

It was in the draft that was in Washington.

[Bill Simmons]

Vancouver took him and he was so upset, and he walked up on the stage and he did the handshake, and then at one point he just looked up, like, just completely devastated. And then I think he. He never played a game for them. I think he forced a trade out of there. Like, he was that. And then they did the interview and he was just. Could not have been less.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Well, Steph made the. Made a face when the warriors took him. People forget about that. He wanted to go to the Knicks. Steph made a. Like, he looked down and grimaced because he did not want to go to Golden State. But not quite on that level of drama. But, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

House. Did anything in this draft change from a gambling standpoint? Any decisions you're going to make when you're bored this summer now that we don't have basketball and we don't have football for two more months?

[Joe House]

Not really. I mean, we just went through a couple of the ones where there's sort of interesting futures where you might want to just have a ticket.

[Bill Simmons]

So Atlanta 33 to 1 and then the Thunder plus 130. I guess the last thing I'll say is I was worried all day that there was going to be like, a blockbuster, mega Celtics trade. And all the people that cover the draft and you follow on Twitter, people do this every year. It's like when. When there's like some sort of big weather event coming and all the weather people on the TV are like, don't leave your house. This is going to be one of the worst hurricanes we've ever. And then it turns out it's fine. We do this with the NBA draft every year. It's going to be crazy. So many trades. Oh, my God, Buckle up. It's going to be. And it never is. And I did feel like I did. I did feel deep down that that's how it was going to play out. But I was worried with the Celtics that there was going to be some Jaylen Brown trade out of nowhere. There was Enough smoke coming from different corners that I was on guard. I didn't do a long power walk today, House. I stayed around the house. I just didn't know it was going to happen. I was on call it.

[Joe House]

You had to be tethered.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I just kind of walked around my living room. My dog stared at me. Yeah, I don't think they're doing anything. So I don't know. I don't know if we're getting another mega trade unless you're right about Zion.

[J. Kyle Mann]

The Zion jazz thing, you really put something in my mind spinning with that one. I mean, of course, going for Zion and adding an unhappy Ace, I don't think that works. So I don't know that one with Ace.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, we'll see what happens. All right, we're going to wrap it up here unless, Kaus, you have any last thoughts?

[Joe House]

I do not. No. No.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay. House seems. You seem tired. You seem emotionally.

[Joe House]

I told you, I'm drunk on exhaustion because the NBA just won't stop. Let me have a break. NBA.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Enjoy yourself a little, House. Your team is making good picks. I think Trey Johnson's a good pick. You seem resigned in a way that you should be happy.

[Bill Simmons]

I like it, too. I like where the Wizards are.

[J. Kyle Mann]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

You haven't messed up in, like, two years.

[Joe House]

Put that on a banner. Put that. Hang that over my shoulder. The Wizards haven't messed up in two years.

[Bill Simmons]

Listen, if I told you two years ago, two years from now, the Wizards will not have messed up for two years, you would have taken that.

[Joe House]

Sure.

[J. Kyle Mann]

There's a giant board in the arena that says this many days since we screwed up.

[Joe House]

And they.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, they should have, like, a scoreboard, like a thing on the clock. 867 days since our last stupid move. Yeah. New Orleans would be zero days. All right. Kyle, man, great to see you. House, great to see you. Thanks to Gehau and his Wired as well. Thanks to everybody who's on our YouTube stream. I'm going to be back Sunday with Brisillo. Enjoy the rest of the week, everybody. Must be 21 plus in President in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + in President D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800-Gambler or visit rg-help.com, call 1-887-897-777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplianma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 247 port in Massachusetts, or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Cracking open a cold one on a hot summer day is one of the best feelings, but it's even better when it feels like you earned it. Like in a friendly little competition. It's always better when there's something worth playing for. And Michelob Ultra, a superior light beer is a pretty great prize. I would. I mean, I would be all tennis for Mick Loeb Ultros, because that's what I do all summer. Because tennis is an actual sport, unlike pickleball. So tennis, doubles, singles, whatever. Let's play for an Ultra. Fill your fridge with Michelob Ultra this [e-mail] enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2025 Anheuser Busch Michelob Ultra Light Beer St. Louis, Missouri.