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- [00:00]
Bill Simmons
You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel Sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA. We have these fun little Tuesday Friday player performance stuff. We have same game parlays. We have picks for me sometimes and boosts and all kinds of fun things. Get ready in the playoffs. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today to get in on the action. And by the way, the Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit theringer.com RG to learn more. Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21/president select states gaming problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com Coming up, first two days of the NBA playoffs are in the books. We have a lot of subplots. We're going to talk about all of them with Ryan Rossillo next. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. What do I look forward to every NBA playoff season? Well, I'm always hoping the Celtics do well. I'm always hoping we have great storylines, great games, great matchups, great game Sevens. I just hope for good basketball. But the NBA playoffs are even better with Michelobotra, the official beer partner of the NBA. Plus, they're getting fans closer to the game with a chance to win courtside tickets and more. Enter now at michelobotra.com courtside Michelobotra Superior Access Courtside 2024-25 sweepstakes. No purchase necessary. Open to US residents 21 or older. Ends on July 1, 2025. Multiple entry periods. Visit michelobalcher.com SuperiorAccess Courtside for free entry, entry deadlines and official rules. Message and data rates may apply. Void where prohibited. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I have a new rewatch was coming for you. On Monday night we did Minority Report. It is our 17th Tom Cruise movie and I think it's our eight Steven Spielberg movie. So Cruise is number one by four movies and Spielberg is in second place. So that is coming Monday and you can watch it on Ringer Movies as well. I talked about Sinners a little bit with Van Lathan. That's a special video on The Ringer Movies YouTube channel so you can check that out as well. Don't forget episode eight of Celtic City. So we got two basketball games tomorrow night. Finish the second one, then plow right into Celtic City because it's, it's a really good one. It's basically about the KG era in the 2000s and the 2008 title. And all those guys are interviewed and all their interviews are really, really good. And I think it's a really, really, really entertaining watch. Celtic City, HBO, 9pm and then it is on Max as well. So there you go. Coming up, Priscilla and I are going to rip through all of the NBA playoff subplots from two wild days. We did this live on YouTube at 9:00, so you're about to listen to it. First, our friends from Proj. All right, 9:04pm Rosilla and I are going live on YouTube for the BS podcast. Priscilla, good to see you. We just watched eight games in two days, including the warriors beating the Rockets in a rock fight. All right, so those eight games, Rossillo, did any of them change what you thought specifically heading into a series? And we'll talk about where is Rockets in a second. But out of those eight, did anything flip your opinion? Because I'm ready to overreact.
- [03:35]
Ryan Rosillo
No, now that I think about it, I don't know that there's anything that happened this weekend. Yeah, nothing.
- [03:40]
Bill Simmons
Nothing. 0 for 8. I have one. I have a half.
- [03:46]
Ryan Rosillo
Is there. It seems like you have one. What is it?
- [03:48]
Bill Simmons
I have a half. 1. I thought that Minnesota Laker game was a worst case scenario for the Lakers in a lot of different ways and I want to tackle it in a second. But that was the only one because I thought Lakers in seven. I thought they'd have the history. But watching some of the matchups and some of the stuff Minnesota did and the fact that the Lakers didn't have a lot of options for a counter, it just kind of made me tilt my head a little bit. I still don't know what's going to happen. I'm really interested in game two, but we'll talk about that. Let's talk about Warriors Rockets. So we had in Warriors, Rockets. My fear for the warriors was they got 75 points in that Memphis game from Curry and Butler. And if these games go into the 1:10 to 1:20 range, where are they getting all those points from? Right then the Rocket spheres are. Well, what happens when we get to the playoffs and somebody turns defense up on them? How are they going to score? Well, that fear won out over the other fear because the Rockets couldn't score. And it was, it was a karaoke. Greatest hits of all the terrible fourth quarters we've watched from the Rockets all year. It was really, really bad. What are the fixes? What'd you see today?
- [04:57]
Ryan Rosillo
They get down 23, right? And at one point you're going, this team only has 41 points in an NBA game. Like, what's. What's going on here? But we knew that the offense was the more challenging part of it, despite the great regular season and at least on paper, the different options they have. But Jaylen Green's terrible tonight. Van Vleet can't hit his shot. He hits that three. It started one for 10. So at that moment, it felt like kind of a big three. The question I would have for Udoka after this is you got back into this game being huge, and Golden State doesn't have a big lineup. They can. They can run Looney out there for a little bit if they want to. Clearly, they're not comfortable with that. Post is a stretch five and he's just going to foul everybody.
- [05:34]
Bill Simmons
How about post is just a stretch? It was a stretch to have him out there for 12 minutes. He was a stretch. Why are you out there anyway? Go ahead.
- [05:42]
Ryan Rosillo
Draymond finished with a 4, 6 and 3 stat line because he's tasked with playing Shingoon. And the way he was playing off of Shingoon, like, it was the one thing that was actually working for Houston because I think Shingun deserves a lot of credit for going, okay, if this is how you're going to play me, like, I'm. I'm going to pull up, like, I've got a little bit more touch. But that stretch of like the first six minutes of the fourth quarter, when Houston got back into this, they got back into it being huge. Stephen Adams was a beast. And even if, you know, Golden State couldn't get a rebound to save their lives, and when they would contest anything, there were fouls and granted Houston to make their free throw. So I guess I would just wonder, did Ema do Golden State a favor by bringing in their best offensive player back into the game and getting away from the size that was just overwhelming Golden State. It wasn't pretty, but Golden State couldn't do anything with it. But then at 5, 19, Adams is out. I mean, I'd love to ask her, like, in a moment of honesty, were you thrilled when they took Adams out of the game?
- [06:41]
Bill Simmons
Right. It was 66, 47, five minutes left in the third, and Shangud made that just ridiculous shot. Cock beating three in the buzzer that never should have gone in, right? It's like, all right, I'm gonna mark that one down. And then Adams kind of took over the game the rest of the third quarter, and then into the fourth, he was getting those offensive rebounds. Eason had A couple of big defensive plays and it just felt like there was some sort of combination of guys that would be the right combination. It was like watching somebody work a safe in a bank heist movie. It's like, how did he get to it? And he just kind of never unlocked it. And I think if I'm leaving that game and I'm watching the tape, I'm really interested in the double bigs. I'm really interested in double bigs, which Jabari. I think I'd want to see Eason more because I just thought he was just a major issue the whole time. Thompson is the one. Thompson just looked like a guy who had been Smoke. Had smoke up, blown up his ass all week that he should have been defensive player of the year. And all of a sudden he's in a playoff game guarding Steph Curry and Butler and he just wasn't good. The Van Vliet thing we've seen a bunch of times though. We've seen him have those games and over and over again it seems like when everything stalls, it's just him jacking up 24, 25 footers. And I don't know how you fix that because that was the worst of Jalen Green today when he's just like going to the basket as hard. He has like no gears. He's either fifth gear or first gear and he's just going to the basket, flying in, either trying to get fouled or whipping off the backboard. They don't have that one settler. And that's why, like, it was so interesting to talk about them in February. I felt they were your way. So did you. But it's like, man, if they could just get one guy who could. I got you guys. Let me get a couple baskets here. With much the way Butler was, was doing it for the warriors down the stretch and tonight and they're missing it and yet I don't think they're out of this series. I this is not like an overreaction. Oh, the warriors have control because they only scored, you know, they scored less than a hundred points too. I just think this is going to be a rock fight series and Houston has a lot of wild card guys, so great win. I think. I still feel like this is going to be a long series.
- [08:43]
Ryan Rosillo
I agree with you on that one. I mean, there's going to be a night where know Steph isn't going to be able to bail him out, probably because they put so much attention on him. Especially like if it's a close game in the Step Positions two were staying with Steph. He had a turnover. He had another one where it should have been a turnover, where he let himself get trapped at half court. But they didn't have a challenge because they already challenged the Pajemski Drive. So there'll be, there'll be times where the stuff off of Steph is a bit of a letdown. Like Moses Moody hitting that three tonight in the corner. It was probably the biggest three because it's like, all right, finally, like it's always the third. Yeah, it's. It's the third shot taker for this group because, you know, clearly there's nights where Curry can do what he did tonight and there's nothing you can do and he's just going to hit a bunch of ridiculous shots. That's not going to happen. You know, I don't know that you can bank on that for four wins. Maybe you can in a seven game series. But I look at the Pajemski minutes and he looks confused. I almost don't like the ball in his hands right now. And if he misses a few. This is a guy who has a ton of confidence to even get to this point, but I think you can see it happening on the court or it's like up, he's hesitant now, he's a little shot and then if you end up with like a Gary Payton second corner open, look like Houston will gladly take that same post.
- [09:58]
Bill Simmons
Don't forget to throw in post in this conversation.
- [10:01]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, they're going to ignore all wide.
- [10:02]
Bill Simmons
Open threes from him until he makes one.
- [10:05]
Ryan Rosillo
Right? They're going to play off of Draymond a ton and Draymond will have better offensive nights. But it's still like if he has another single digit night, it's not going to be that big of a deal. And Butler even had like a stretch where I was like, where are you? Like, where are you? And then he was able to, you know, because even if he got Shingoon or Adams in a switch, he's not the kind of guy who's just going to like fly past them. He wants to dribble to a spot and pull up and try to get away with a clean look like, you know, without much of a contest there. So, yeah, I think there's going to be nights where Golden State against this Houston defense is going to look really lost. But I, I wonder internally if the Rocks Rockets coaching staff is going. Did we let them off the hook a little bit by going with Shingoon, who was our best offensive player? Because it wasn't like they did anything great on offense. They just had multiple possessions and Golden State was just overwhelmed. Like, you would see all this traffic at the Rockets hoop and you couldn't see the blue jerseys because they were so much smaller than the guys in red.
- [11:01]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, that was like the scrappy, like the football team of like, scrappy, smaller guys battling some massive offensive line. They were able to get away with some stuff tonight that I don't know if it's going to work in later rounds. For the record, like, Butler played 42 minutes tonight. Tonight. Right. Curry played 39. Once you start going every other day the way they were leaning, those guys. Curry also was really quiet and then all of a sudden got hot, which is usually a danger for the other team if he's slow first quarter. And it, it reminded me of that. What was the best game he ever played? What was that 2019 when he was quiet in the first half and then just completely annihilated Houston in the second half.
- [11:39]
Ryan Rosillo
It's my favorite Steph game of all time.
- [11:41]
Bill Simmons
And your number one. Listen, if Houston, if Golden State can play those five guys together and get away with it, I think they're delighted. If they could play Moody and Pski with the three and, and they can rebound just enough and they can defend just enough, but then get what they want offensively and Moody can step up like he did with that three, that's where they want to be. I don't know if that's going to work for four rounds. And I, I, I'm going to say it again, and this is the most polarizing warriors topic. I just find it hard to believe Kamiga can't play 12 minutes a game for this team. I find it hard to believe. And I did think about it. Seems like they're completely out. I just find it hard to believe he wouldn't have been better than those 12 Quinton post minutes.
- [12:28]
Ryan Rosillo
Don't you have to defer to Kerr on this one, though? I mean, he's had him a long time.
- [12:32]
Bill Simmons
I, I get it. That's, that's why I, I, I tiptoe into it. I'm just hesitant. But I just like, man, because at least with Kaminga, he's, he's unafraid, he's athletic and he's gonna fight. And I, like, there's just, I don't know, there was that one Santos play when he just like lost the ball. Like, they just have dudes that are out there where you're like, man, what's this gonna look like if you're playing OKC in a series, you have these guys out there against that OKC team we saw today. So I think they closed it together.
- [13:03]
Ryan Rosillo
They closed the third quarter of four minutes. The last four minutes. They didn't hit a shot.
- [13:08]
Bill Simmons
And they were bad shots. There was like shot clock violation. You know, it was. It was like bad, bad stuff. So look, they have to go 12 and 9 to make the finals. Now they have to go 11 and 9. Could it happen? Sure. But, you know, it's. It. This is. They. They still feel like they're a guy short to me. Rosillo, I can't shake.
- [13:27]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, all the. There's. There's this collection of teams where you, you look at the Clippers numbers after a certain point and you go, oh, my God, like, look at that. And I know we're going to talk about him. And then, yeah, you know, I swear to God, TNT and ESPN love to throw up. The Jimmy Butler trade graphic, like four times. It's like a read. I don't know if it's sponsored or not, but they'll just say, hey, since the All Star break, like, and it's. It is really interesting. But you always have to remember, like, we're not the normal audience. So they're getting everybody up to date on, like, what the story has been. So you have this Golden State thing that feels entirely different. The Clippers thing that feels different. I think Minnesota, for whatever reason, has been completely overlooked, is we'll get to that game. Cause I can't wait to talk about that one. But I haven't really looked at Golden State, even with that split post, the Butler trade, because of some of the limitations and because of their preference to be small and not have any big option. Like, you're talking about him going, hey, you only have to win 11 more games to get to the final. I. I don't even. I don't know. I'm surprised you're even, like, mapping it out that way. Do you really think they have a chance to win in the West? Did you think that?
- [14:27]
Bill Simmons
I like the bracket they're in more. Right. They play the winner of Lakers, Minnesota, and from what we saw last night in that game, you know, two flawed teams. Minnesota look great last night. The Lakers look terrible. Both have some pluses and minuses, but I think they're in the right side of the bracket. And then you think okc maybe it doesn't matter. The way OKC is just completely terrifying. I was thinking that Butler graphic you mentioned, maybe they maybe Just they feel like the casual ESPN fans can't understand how Jimmy Butler ended up on the Warriors. It just doesn't make sense. When you're watching one of these games, you're like, how did they get that? Would they give up Wiggins? What? Wiggins, Schroeder, Kyle Anderson, that. Was there more in there? No, there wasn't. Houston going forward because we have three days between games, which means we have a Monday and Tuesday of. What's Houston going to do if they can't get this going? And there'll be a trade machine team. I think they're young. The biggest question, they took us 12.
- [15:31]
Ryan Rosillo
Minutes to get to Houston. Trademark.
- [15:33]
Bill Simmons
The big question is this V player option thing. If you're talking trade machine stuff. But I. And I don't know if I'm just. It's because what we do for a living. But when I watch them, I'm constantly thinking of what player I would add to make them a championship contender. Because it's clearly not the team they have now, which I still think is a very good team. But there's. There's something that they need. And so when I watch it, I'm like, I wonder with Booker, would you just like pay 200 cents on the dollar for Booker and just give Ishba the ultimate life raft or what would you do? But anyway, that. That stuff's going to go the next two days.
- [16:08]
Ryan Rosillo
That'd be too early this series. I think there's going to be a night where Houston looks so much better than Golden State.
- [16:16]
Bill Simmons
Do you think Houston's. We look great when we're up 12 team. You know how we have those teams?
- [16:22]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. I don't know who looks bad when they're up 20. Like, who looks like they're having a bad time?
- [16:26]
Bill Simmons
The Celtics.
- [16:27]
Ryan Rosillo
Is there any team?
- [16:29]
Bill Simmons
The Celtics, it's always the most dangerous, but they're up 22. It's like, I don't know, call timeout. Keep these guys in check.
- [16:37]
Ryan Rosillo
Hey, look, they're down 23 to this group with this offense. And I, I cannot. I'll say it again. They didn't really even do anything that was that great on offense to get back into this. It wasn't like they got hot from three. It wasn't like, oh, okay, this guy's cooking, or they can't guard this guy. They're hunting. They're hunting this dude. It's just, hey, we were big. So that's something that they can go to. That. That's not shooting variance. That's something that they know when they watch this film, they go, we might want to go to it earlier. You know, there's also something too, when you're down 23, the effort that it takes you to come back and cut it to three points, and then you start timing it out, being like, can they sustain this for another five minutes? Like that'll happen a lot too, is like, you're right there, you're right. You're just about four.
- [17:25]
Bill Simmons
At one point it was three points, four point game. Yeah, didn't, never felt like it. But then all of a sudden it was close. When you did all the draft work for the Jabari Smith draft, did you think he would be a better scorer than this?
- [17:41]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, he had to develop more of a handle. That was a major flag for him. And he had those guards from Auburn who didn't want to give him the ball a ton. But you looked at like the best version of him going. You can get a bit of a handle and get to a spot. His shooting, his defensive instincts, the rebounding, all that. By the way, I know he wasn't good tonight, but he's been better the last few months. I think it's the most comfortable he's ever looked offensively. You know, I don't know that you're ever going to be running like a side pick and roll for him and then if he gets cut off, he's going to reset with the dribble probe and then go like, I don't know if he's ever going to be that guy. But like, that was the biggest difference is Paolo. He could get wherever he wanted to as a draft prospect at that size. And with Jabari, he felt a bit like a true dribble guy. Even though I still really liked him.
- [18:29]
Bill Simmons
A lot, I like him the most. The Rockets, the offense was brutal to watch, but they, there was one time in the fourth quarter when they posted up Thompson on Curry and he kind of, and he kind of whirled into the paint, had this little jump hook and I was like, that's something like instead of just having these guys facing the basket and flying toward the basket and bouncing off dudes whipping off the backboard, maybe, you know, try to use their athleticism, try to put them in different parts of the thing. So we'll see, we'll see. We'll see what they do heading into, heading into game two. I, I, I think, I still think it's going to be a long series. That's where I sit. Hey, Priscilla, are you a forward thinker? Because if you are, you need an HR and finance platform that thinks like you do. Workday is the AI platform that helps propel your organization, workforce, and your entire industry into the future. Workday movie business forever forward. Which leads us to Minnesota and the Lakers. They make this Towns trade right before the season. They get Defenseo and they get Randle, and it's controversial. And the trade was on full display yesterday. And I thought Towns was excellent in that Pistons game, but Minnesota looked really good against the Lakers. And I think the thing that I saw last night rewatching that game, because I was. I was at WrestleMania last night, but I was able to power through it this morning.
- [19:53]
Ryan Rosillo
Should we think of that?
- [19:55]
Bill Simmons
I have some cena stuff for you at the end.
- [19:58]
Ryan Rosillo
Cool.
- [20:00]
Bill Simmons
Minnesota's just, just. I know. I'll give you a heads up. Minnesota's just really comfortable wherever they're playing. I think that's my favorite thing about them. They're just. They're just really comfortable. They don't care if they're in LA. They don't care if they're playing against LeBron and Luca. They're an irrational confidence team personified. And you saw it last night. And granted, they shot the lights out, but I saw a team that walked in there and thought, we have the best team in this series and we're winning this series. And they carried themselves that way. Now, the Lakers, I don't know what happened to them the entire game. I don't know where the ball movement. They had 15 assists. There was some. A stagnant offense. And on defense, I just thought they looked slow. It'll be different in Tuesday. But I really liked what I saw from Minnesota. And that was the series that. It didn't flip me because I had Lakers in seven, but it did make me go, fuck. I. I think I. I don't feel great about Lakers in seven. So what was your takeaway?
- [21:00]
Ryan Rosillo
I went last minute.
- [21:03]
Bill Simmons
Look at you. Yeah, you're like Diane Cannon. You're there. You're there every game.
- [21:08]
Ryan Rosillo
I'm hoping to get my upgrade material this off season. We'll see what they offer. But I. I picked Minnesota and I, I'm. Look, I'm not taking credit for it as if I. I saw these things. It just felt a bit like a zag because there was, if you just felt like this overwhelming vibe decision by the general NBA public right where it was, okay, the Lakers, another run with LeBron, Luca stuff, you know, that peak that they had, which we've talked about. I brought it up in my playoff preview on Thursday where It's like, if you go on the season, defensive numbers for the Lakers at 17th and sometimes, like, the season's so long that that's a completely irrelevant number for a lot of different teams. And then they have that 18 and 3 stretch where we were talking with that awesome Denver win at Denver mixed in in there, and you're going, wait, they're the number one team on defense now for. For 21 games.
- [21:56]
Bill Simmons
That's weird.
- [21:57]
Ryan Rosillo
Like, right? Because when the Luca trade was made, it was almost a thought of, well, they're gonna have to figure this out defensively, those three guys in the perimeter, depending on what you get from LeBron. And then, you know, Reeves just gets hunted because of. Of a size thing. Probably more so than anything else, because I think at least fights for position and that kind of stuff. So, like, we just didn't think they were going to be good defensively. And then they're off the charts defensively. And then after that stretch, when I ran the numbers again, it was like, hey, they're back to, like, 17th. So I think the truth was, is that was a bit of an anomaly, even if it looked like they were doing a great job prepping guys. Based on the. So you look at Minnesota on the other side of, like, these closing groups. They closed since 3-2-17 and four. They had the fourth best net of any team in the NBA. Okay. They're also the healthiest they've ever been. Do I love Randall as a number two for multiple playoff rounds? No, I do not. But he's played great. I mean, he's played great, at least for them in this whole thing. So when you're thinking about this matchup, you're like, is Rudy going to get exposed? Is something where Minnesota will want to go small? Is that actually doing the Lakers a favor? Because the Lakers do not want to play Jackson Hayes, and I don't blame them for not wanting to play him. But they have no other move. They go with Rui at center. And in the beginning of the game, it was like, hey, he's hitting those threes that we talked about last week. And then that cooled off. Then they have this other small group where they'll go Finney, Smith and Vanderbilt and then figure out what the rest of the perimeter guys and JJ's talked about like, hey, we're not small. We're big perimeter players, but we just don't have a traditional center. Well, in this game, they were small. So the alarming part of it, when you think of it as a matchup, is what's the adjustment. The Lakers are going to grow. But then if I'm on the Lakers side of this, I'm going 48 points from Nas Reed and Jaden McDaniels. 48 points from those two guys. Like that's not happening.
- [23:44]
Bill Simmons
21 for 42 from three. It's pretty hard not to win any playoff game when you go 21 for 42. I, I struggled with it because I thought Go Bear offensively could be a problem for the Lakers heading into the series. Because of the lob stuff, they don't have rim protection. And that's like the one thing Go Bear is good at. And I was trying to figure out.
- [24:01]
Ryan Rosillo
How much they pass to him, right?
- [24:03]
Bill Simmons
If they give. But he's still around the rim with his arms up. And if you're not playing a center at some point. So Hayes. Hayes was minus 11 and 8 minutes. They couldn't keep him on the floor, right? So you have that. You have.
- [24:15]
Ryan Rosillo
They haven't been playing them at all, by the way. Like, this is pretty consistent.
- [24:19]
Bill Simmons
This is like. All right, we just had to find out. Minnesota did some interesting stuff with where they put Connolly. Were you following that? Where they. They put him on Rui for a little bit so that they wouldn't be on Reeves. And then the Lakers kind of figured that out. And then they started moving around the second half. He was on Reeves again. And it seems like they were so aware that the Lakers were going to attack Connolly as a strategy that they just wanted to kind of move him around like a yo yo, which I thought was. Was smart. I don't really know what the move is for the Lakers if that. If that one lineup they have which got killed last night with the, with the Rui, LeBron, Luca, pick Reeves and pick a swing. If that lineup's just going to get torched by Minnesota. I don't know what the next move is because the next move is basically playing LeBron at center and going super small with wings and shooting. And I just think Minnesota would be delighted if they did that. But the big takeaway for me last night is when McDaniels plays like that. Minnesota looks awesome and he's their wild. Every team has a wild card guy right when he. Daniels is awesome. Minnesota looks like the scariest team in the west other than okc and he was awesome last night.
- [25:31]
Ryan Rosillo
I went through the three point attempts because it just was. It got. It was just out of control places quiet. People were just laughing, being like, when are these guys going to start missing? And I have it at 43 pointed attempts. It's 42 for the game. I'm not counting the last two garbage ones. But of the 40 attempts that I would say, like, were in the time that we were still wondering, whatever. This isn't totally relevant, but I counted as 40 attempts, 27 are absolutely wide open. Like, not debatable.
- [25:59]
Bill Simmons
27 fear with this Luca LeBron combo that it would just be open three frenzy.
- [26:05]
Ryan Rosillo
I'd say seven more were open, and then I'm going to give them. And I was being nice. I gave him six contests because some people will go through and sort all these different things. And, you know, there was one place that was trying to say there was like, zero, and I was like, that's not true. There's a few contests, but 27 of the 40 are like, nobody's even close. And there's a few things. One is they're packing it because they're worried about ant hunting Luca. And so that means help. I think there's even a chance that Randall, even though he probably got a little emotional about at some point, like, if he gets LeBron, it seems like he wants to get real physical with him. And that's one of the few guys that, you know with the ball in his hands. It's probably a really good showdown physically, which is not something we'd say about LeBron a lot. So you packed it in, and you're leaving these corner threes that are there. And Nas hit a ton. Jaden hit a ton. But then there's just other stuff where, you know, LeBron has to be better. You know, if it was a second action where he was heading in one direction, and then it's like, no, the ball's going over there. He just didn't. Wasn't quick enough to go over and contest it. And then Luca, like, if you run something to one side and then the guy Luca is assigned to away from the ball comes up. Luca just doesn't even pay attention to him off the ball. He. He lost, you know, numerous guys on those attempts. So you could think G could just go through it and be like, hey, like, what do. Do you guys. Are you ready now? Are you ready to play? Cause it was so overwhelming and it looked so bad for the Lakers. You're going, okay, so if they're only small, like, why is this going to actually get better? But I'm not going to fall for. I'm not going to fall for, like, a game. One thing here saying that LA can't get back, that would just seem Irresponsible because we've seen so many game ones look like just be so misleading. But the size thing was alarming last night and I think you're probably a little. It was probably a bit of a reminder, like, wait, are they good and are they too big?
- [27:54]
Bill Simmons
So Nico's still in this thing, you're saying?
- [27:59]
Ryan Rosillo
Side note, do you think when Anthony Davis was going off against Sacramento, Nico had like an inner dialogue where he's like, I'm going to be right about this.
- [28:08]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, I'm still. He definitely. There's one person in his life that he's still like, just hold on. I'm still not out of this. It's still going to happen. Can I read you the most critical thing I read about the Lakers last night?
- [28:21]
Ryan Rosillo
Please.
- [28:21]
Bill Simmons
Coach JJ Redick did a great job all season, but he didn't do a good job for Game 1. The Lakers stood around on offense, played too much one on one basketball, and he didn't make any necessary adjustments. A tweet from Magic Johnson, that's when you know things are bad. Like that's, that's as critical as I think he's ever been on Twitter. He was not happy. What did you see at the game? What was the vibe? Give it. Give us the. Give us the feel in the arena because they're all excited for this game. Game one, Luca playoffs, little kids wearing the Luca jerseys and then the T. Wolves hit threes for an hour straight.
- [29:02]
Ryan Rosillo
It was, you know, because it's game one. And I think that that fan base has an arrogance that's deserved. Like, yeah, they have a right to be arrogant. I think the more alarming thing, you know, as a Lakers guy, when the place was going nuts for Steph in the regular season, it was the Steph MVP chance, like big time. It was loud. I was like, boy, you don't expect that now. You know, I don't. Afterwards it wasn't like anybody because I was milling around a little bit afterwards, it was just kind of a shrug and a. Well, that was alarming, you know, But I still think like the same thing. If you were in Boston, if Boston gets smoked, granted, if they get smoked by Orlando, that's worse than getting smoked by Minnesota. But it's just all right, you know, they'll figure it out. They'll come out. Let me ask you something though, because this was a thought that crap that crept into my head a little too much. Luca trying to figure it out on his own on offense.
- [30:00]
Bill Simmons
It does feel like it's month four of. Of let's really give him a lot of latitude here, especially in the first quarter.
- [30:08]
Ryan Rosillo
Like a subletter that extends his lease. Like, this is how I really am.
- [30:12]
Bill Simmons
Like those Apple news stories you read where somebody's. Well, so somebody won't leave somebody's cottage, and they've been there two years. Yeah. I was. I was wondering in the two days between games if we might get some sort of something from the LeBron camp. LeBron really wants Luca to get more involved or some sort of something. It's a lot of time here, 72 hours, so who knows? I'm on pins and needles waiting to find out. I will say, just to.
- [30:41]
Ryan Rosillo
To add, though, if. If you were a Luca detractor, right. You would go, okay, well, he just runs his pick and roll until he gets the matchup that he wants. And it's a lot of staring around and the design of some of those Dallas teams or for that specific reason. Right. But when he was with the other really good player, it didn't really work out, but Kyrie needed a place, and it worked out for Kyrie. Even though I felt like during that playoff run last year, the ups were celebrated and the downs were never criticized because that's usually what happens in the number two anyway.
- [31:14]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [31:15]
Ryan Rosillo
But there were some moments throughout that run to the finals where you were like, you need more out of Kyrie here. And it's. It's just not really that much of a top. I felt like there were times watching where, like, Rudy played 24 minutes, and I was like, all right, now I'm going to try to kill Rudy Gobert. And it's like, all right, but, like, Austin Reeves is pretty good. LeBron's got a pretty decent resume. I think that there's probably something to be said if you don't. If you don't get the switch that you want, immediately swing it. And I'm not like, Nazi.
- [31:51]
Bill Simmons
He has seven years of habits. He's like a child actor who just learned on the set how to behave. It is what it is.
- [31:57]
Ryan Rosillo
It crept into my head. Just a thought. I'm not. You know, we're also talking about one of the most efficient offensive players of all time. But, you know, there's also something to be said of, like, everybody needs to touch the ball. I think they need to get going downhill, too when Rudy's out. Right. Like, they need. If they're going to have Randall and Nas hanging around the rim.
- [32:17]
Bill Simmons
Right.
- [32:17]
Ryan Rosillo
Then you should just be like, I don't even care if you make it. I'm going, I'm just going. I'm trying to finish over and over again. I'd see. I like to see them be more aggressive during those non Rudy minutes.
- [32:26]
Bill Simmons
It's when we talk about the wild card guides. McDaniel's from Minnesota, no question. And I guess Nas too, but Nas is pretty consistent.
- [32:32]
Ryan Rosillo
But you're so right. When Jaden's like, it's like, did they win 70 games?
- [32:37]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, yeah. They look just amazing. And Reeves is kind of the guy for LA in a lot of ways because when he's awesome, all of a sudden they seem, like, impossible to stop. But Minnesota, and this was. I had such a tough time with this series and finally ended up. I think I took Lakers in seven, but I really thought it was gonna be seven game series where you have these two teams. The strengths and weaknesses are basically the same for the most part, except for the center spot. Like Minnesota's weak spot is point guard. I don't know how much, how many minutes Conley can play, but Conley's the guy every team targets and he's the guy.
- [33:12]
Ryan Rosillo
But it doesn't matter because.
- [33:13]
Bill Simmons
Doesn't really matter for them. Right.
- [33:15]
Ryan Rosillo
Because ants playing point guard and then.
- [33:17]
Bill Simmons
They can go bigger and really not have a point guard, but then you can pressure them. Like there's. There's ways you can do it. And the Lakers are similar and Rui is basically their Nas Reed, but Nas Reed's a better player. But they have this go bear piece that the Lakers just don't have. They had this extra, extra wrinkle they can bring in depending on the game. And the Lakers are kind of stuck with this roster and it goes back to the. The Mark Williams trade.
- [33:41]
Ryan Rosillo
Can I give you a compliment?
- [33:42]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [33:44]
Ryan Rosillo
You said years ago we were talking about Carmelo in the playoffs. Yeah. And you basically said, like, look, even though he isn't, he takes the floor with LeBron and Wade and these guys.
- [33:57]
Bill Simmons
And he feels like he belongs.
- [33:58]
Ryan Rosillo
Right? Right. I'd say Ant's a better player in comparison to, like, what Ants contemporaries are right now than maybe even like the gap between prime LeBron and Carmelo is wider than I think the gap between Luca and Ant, say, right now. Okay.
- [34:18]
Bill Simmons
From 09 to 13, LeBron was here and Carmelo was there.
- [34:22]
Ryan Rosillo
But Carmelo didn't take the floor going, oh, my God, that guy's so much better than me. Right?
- [34:26]
Bill Simmons
No.
- [34:26]
Ryan Rosillo
An Ant never taking the floor thinking any of these guys are better than him. That has to be an incredible feeling now. Like another year in with this group with this team having a playoff run where it's like, even if things are going really bad, at least we know we can get it back to a guy that you can't really do anything with. Ant. Seeing Ant in person, by the way, I would put him on the very short list of people that are worth to see in person. It is just another level of, of like impressive. Not just because he can jump and do all these. There's just movement with him with the ball where you're like, what did he just do? And then you know, you're not even watching. You're just waiting for the replay because you can't believe what you just saw. So I think that is. I just thought it was a really valuable thing that you had said about that it's valuable to a team. And I think Ant. It's not the same thing because I like Ant more than I like probably Carmelo. But it's important.
- [35:20]
Bill Simmons
He's certainly a better two head player. They have a bunch of guys like that. They're not irrational confidence because it's kind of rationally confident, but they have Nas Reed. I think Dante's like that. Randolph can have moments where he's like, if I could just get the ball more, I'd be a 35 point a game guy. And I don't think it's a team that really cares if they're on the road or not. Here's what's interesting. So in the Quipper series, the Clippers were minus 118 favorites on FanDuel when that series started, they lost game one and now they're plus 118. So it swung a little, but not that much. Minnesota was a pretty big underdog heading into the Lakers series. They were like, I think it was like plus one 60, something like that. They're now minus one 53 favorites off of one game that swung big. So I, I think there was some matchup stuff there that the Sharps probably looked at and said this is going to be long haul. Now what they're forgetting is that literally everybody in Minnesota is going to foul out of game too. I'm just preparing America now. It could be a 60 foul game for them.
- [36:27]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, LA didn't get called for any fouls in game one is because they weren't near anybody.
- [36:31]
Bill Simmons
True. Anyway, that's, that's our segment on Lakers timberwolves and you can learn more@workday.com. well, the NFL playoffs are here. You knew this already. There's no better way to be in the action. Than with FanDuel America's number one sportsbook. So many fun things to do. We got Profit boosts future bets. You can dive in, make your bet, activate your boost, go for even bigger winnings. Monday I think we have Knicks, Pistons and then we have Clippers Nuggets Game two. I still like all the Clippers series bets. The future bets, I think they're plus 118 for the series. I like them to win outright in game two so I would recommend that. But don't be a spectator this postseason. Head to fandom.com BS to download America's number one sportsbook and make every moment more you must be 21 plus in President select states or 18 plus in President DC. Opted required bonus issued as non withdrawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply including any token expiration and max wager amount. See terms@sportsbook.fandrecom Gambin problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com this episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra Spring is here. My favorite time of the year. That means the NBA playoffs are here too. What am I the most excited about? I'm excited to see if the Celtics can defend their title. I'm excited to see if Steph Curry and Jokic can keep going and going and going round after round. I'm excited for the potential of an LA vs LA playoff series. It's never happened. Clippers, Lakers, never in my lifetime. Is OKC for real? Is Cleveland for real? Is SGA going to prove that he is the best scoring guard in the postseason? Basically, since Michael Jordan? Since Kobe Bryant? Is he on that level? We're all going to find out. There's plenty to look forward to on and off the court. Like Michelob Ultra Courtside. That's another thing. It's getting fans closer to the game with unique prizes. Plus, they're giving you a chance to win tickets to the NBA Finals. You heard me. The NBA Finals, which I hope are in Boston. Just head to michelobaltra.com NBAFinals Michelob Ultra Courtside NBA Finals Sweepstakes no purchase necessary. Open to U.S. residents, excluding Maryland residents. 21 and up. Begins 9:00am ET. On February 16, 2025. Ends on May 5, 2025. See Official Rules@michelobaltra.com Rules for Price and details. Message and data rate may apply. Void. We're prohibited. Clippers Nuggets Game of the weekend has to be right. That was the best game we saw. It was an awesome, awesome game. The Clippers Curse is undefeated. I'M happy to talk about that later when I do that. Now, here's my first question for you. If you're a Denver fan, are you more or less scared after that game, do you feel better or worse? You won the game. Do you feel better?
- [39:31]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't feel better. Well, I feel better because I'm up a game. So if we're just going with that. But if just what you watched and how it went down, I don't feel better. You.
- [39:41]
Bill Simmons
I think I feel worse.
- [39:43]
Ryan Rosillo
All right, so answer your own question because you're right on this. So stay on it.
- [39:46]
Bill Simmons
No, I was curious on your take. I. If I'm a Denver fan. I can't believe I win that game and I'm already fucking nervous as hell for the series. And I think that's why the line didn't really budge because you had Porter, who was a Section 8, who basically got benched for Russell Westbrook, who was a big piece in the Coach GM drama where both guys end up getting fired, and who is just a complete roller coaster ride. Possession, possession. And was a better option than Michael porter, who makes $40 million a year. He's out there. And then you have Murray, who was 7 for 20 and it felt worse. And the Clips just have a bunch of dudes to throw at him. What are you looking up? No, no, I'm just.
- [40:29]
Ryan Rosillo
I'm listening to everything you're saying. A bunch of dudes you can throw at him. I think he even swore in there.
- [40:34]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. And I don't know what I'm getting at. A Porter going forward. I don't know If I'm getting 50% shooting from Jamal Murray in any game with the way the Clippers are defending him. And I don't know if I'm ever getting a worse, worse possession performance than the Clippers in big spots where they just. Look, it's going to sound like I'm making excuses because I picked them to win the series. They just fucked the game up. That was. We fucked the game up. You leave that game, you're like, I can't believe we lost that game. And you're going through. There's 12 plays. You're looking at like, what are we doing here? We can't inbound the ball over here. We can't get a better shot here. We're sending Jokic a double team late here and leaving this guy 10ft open. Like, what are we doing? And I guarantee their coaches and we, we both think they have one of the five best coaching staffs. I guarantee their Coaches were fucking knocking tables over today going, what the fuck were we doing in this? So the question for me is, bad game or is this just like this is what this Clippers experience is going to be like? Between the fact that James Harden is involved, you have guys like Chris Dunn wide open, open for a reason, as Jalen Rose would say. And you also have Jokic, who's the best player in the series. But I still feel like the Clippers are going to win the series. And I don't think it's crazy.
- [41:52]
Ryan Rosillo
We agree. I thought The Clippers with 20 turnovers, so many.
- [41:57]
Bill Simmons
20 turnovers were solo.
- [41:59]
Ryan Rosillo
Bad turnovers. Like getting ready to inbound the ball. You can't inbound the ball. You know, it's probably more on the past than it is on Harden. Positioning himself and Westbrook's energy was just off the charts because I want to get to his timeline of events here. But 20 turnovers, they took way more free throws. I think Okich, it was as good as he was overall because we all expect that from him. He was atrocious on defense in the first half. So I don't know if that's like a halftime wake up call and that he's just going to play at a better level, but when he got caught in any kind of like on ball thing in the first half, it was a joke. There's a baseline drive on him where he was terrible. And then with Zoo, no matter what, and you can sort the numbers and say Zubac based on minimum number of possessions against Jokic, like you can make an argument that he's better against Jokic than anybody else. The very least that you're getting out of it because you're never stopping Jokic, is that there's about four or five shots, I think from game one where like that's a tough shot. Like he got even Jokic to have to take that shot tough. So like, I, I feel really good about that. I'm mad about the turnovers. I don't think it was just because of trapping. You know, every now and then if there's a double team on the guy with the ball, like a cut would be nice from some of the other big name guys. But, you know, Harden was really good. He hit those two floaters. He headed a huge three. So there's not really like a thing you can point to there. With Harden, I think it's. This is whatever we want to do with this Westbrook topic. The fact that he took 17 shots in a playoff game, if I'm The Clippers. I'm like, good. If he takes that many shots the rest of this series, including the biggest.
- [43:31]
Bill Simmons
Shot of the game. Yeah, second.
- [43:33]
Ryan Rosillo
I'd say second. The, the Brown three was the biggest shot of the game.
- [43:37]
Bill Simmons
Hold that thought. So Harden was 32, 6 and 11 and played 42 minutes. Kawhi played 41 minutes. At some point they were like, we got to get this game. We can take this the way Porter.
- [43:50]
Ryan Rosillo
Overtime too, so.
- [43:51]
Bill Simmons
Well, yeah, but I mean, with the way Porter is playing, I think they were like, we can steal this, we can steal this. And it felt like they were going to win it. The, the Norm Powell, who I don't think has been the same guy since he came back from his injury. And I don't know if the stats completely back it up, but I think they do. The thing that was a good march.
- [44:12]
Ryan Rosillo
He. He was, he was slow, I think.
- [44:14]
Bill Simmons
Little up and down, right? I mean, he was, but I mean, he's playing less minutes too. I looked up the five man numbers for all the. I didn't. I did it before the Golden State game for just game one. And you can see that. And these lineups play like 10 minutes, 12 minutes, 11 minutes. The Clippers played that one lineup 26 minutes with done 26 of the 53. And they were like minus nine with that lineup. And I wonder going forward, do we see a little less done and a little more Derek Jones or maybe a little more Batum? Do they go a little bit bigger? Just play hard. And as a point guard, I think my point is they have moves to make, whereas Denver has no moves. If Porter's gonna suck, then that's it. It's just Westbrook. What? What? Who else is playing? You have nobody else in your roster who can play in crunch time of, of a playoff game. So they're going to be at, you know, at the whim of this Russell Westbrook roller coaster. So take the floor because I know you have a timeline you want to do.
- [45:11]
Ryan Rosillo
I mean, we can keep going. LA's bench got outscored by the Denver bench, 23 to 13. That's weird. I mean, you want to start looking at how dumb plus minus can be. I think sometimes it's telling, sometimes it's totally misleading. Zoo was minus 8 and 39 minutes. Simmons, who doesn't want the ball in his fucking hands, was plus five on the game. So they're so desperate they have to play Simmons in those non zoo center minutes. And even if you think, okay, at least he provides some kind of body that can move around a little bit. He doesn't. Once he has the ball, like all he's doing is trying to figure out how he can get rid of it and then he'll try to do like a pass that looks kind of cool or whatever. So I like when he gets a.
- [45:47]
Bill Simmons
Rebound and he takes off with the ball like it's going to be a fast break, Magic Johnson style. But then he sees the half court logo and he's like, three, two, one. I have to get rid of this ball. I can't dribble with it 35ft of the basket. I can't believe he's playing. The one thing I liked with him was I thought he was physical. With Jokic, I guess that's if he can at least do that, he's probably playable in the series. But offensively he's a zero. I can't believe he's a legitimate zero.
- [46:15]
Ryan Rosillo
I cannot believe he's playing real minutes right now. But it really speaks like they just don't want to go with Drew Eubanks over it. And I guess if you're, if you're being as nice as you possibly could is that once you give him the outlet, he can, he can cross half court with the ball.
- [46:30]
Bill Simmons
Right? He looks good. Heads up.
- [46:32]
Ryan Rosillo
You're so right though. When he takes off you're like, oh my, this is going to be on the vhs.
- [46:38]
Bill Simmons
Well, remember pre Covid, Ben Surer? He would take those rebounds and he honestly looked like left handed magics LeBron sometimes. He really did. I don't know what happened.
- [46:49]
Ryan Rosillo
So we're, we don't like. There's just a lot from this game where the first half was playing out the way I thought it would play out. I thought Jokic is even worse defensively than, you know, whatever standards you have from. He's in every action, they're hunting him constantly. And a lot of times I think he doesn't get enough credit for how, you know, he's at least smart enough to know what position you're supposed to be in, which I think is more than half a defense. But at the rim it's not like there's going to be a ton of contest or people are going to do U turns, you know, like against the really good defensive guys. You can see it's like, I don't really want to go in there.
- [47:21]
Bill Simmons
Well, it's a good one for Harden too because that floater he has, he just knows he's getting it against the. Yeah, against the Nuggets, nobody's blocking It.
- [47:29]
Ryan Rosillo
But I. I still was. Was okay with the Clippers after this whole thing because.
- [47:35]
Bill Simmons
Me, too.
- [47:35]
Ryan Rosillo
Like, let's. Let's go with that Westbrook timeline here.
- [47:37]
Bill Simmons
He hits the three.
- [47:42]
Ryan Rosillo
He hits three. By the way, Denver's offensive rebounding. The fourth quarter also won. They had seven offensive rebounds just in the fourth. So Westbrook takes down a huge offensive rebound. When they're down 96, 95, he hits the huge three. But then at the end of regulation, he gets it back again, has a chance to take a three, and then decides to jump in the air and throw it off another defender as the clock expires. Sure. Like, okay, what's going on here?
- [48:08]
Bill Simmons
I actually felt like that got swept under the rug as one of the worst end of the game plays in the history of basketball.
- [48:14]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah.
- [48:15]
Bill Simmons
Just even leading up. I mean, he was put in a bad spot. There's three seconds left, but everything about it was a botch.
- [48:20]
Ryan Rosillo
Here's the other thing that'll be forgotten forever, and I'm going to forget it, too. But up 108, 107. When they were trying to trap, Murray swings it to Westbrook to run clock. And then Westbrook. Yeah. 16 seconds left on the game clock. 13 left on the shot clock. He actually drives. And they said it was a pass to Aaron Gordon. I think Aaron Gordon just ended up with the ball. And it was almost a disastrous turnover. When you factor in when all this Denver stuff started going south and everybody's getting pissed. Right. Right.
- [48:56]
Bill Simmons
Would you hear Bob Myers reaction to that? The place settled. I think they ended up getting free throws out of it somehow. And Bob. There's like a pause and Bob Myers is like, well, I'm not sure Westbrook should have taken the. Like, he was just like. I'm really not sure that should have happened. You kind of have to pull up there and maybe not do that.
- [49:16]
Ryan Rosillo
National broadcast default. Nice setting with that. I mean, there's another thing here that I wrote down. Like, yokich misses those two huge. Like, when do you expect Jokic in that spot to miss two free throws? So.
- [49:27]
Bill Simmons
Right.
- [49:27]
Ryan Rosillo
Look again. Ramona Shelburne had a really good note on ESPN.com on her piece today, where if you look at the spacing that LA gave Westbrook in this game, it averaged out to 9.6ft on his three point attempts, which is the most space he's ever had in a playoff game since they started tracking this stuff 11 years ago. Minimum five attempts. So nine feet and a half.
- [49:49]
Bill Simmons
Almost. Nine feet is.
- [49:52]
Ryan Rosillo
That's like two thirds of the free.
- [49:53]
Bill Simmons
Throw line, that's like second and six. If you get four yards, three yards, maybe they spot. It's either second and seven or second and six, depending on how they spot it. I. I really want to talk about the Westbrook Space League, because first of all, that this was another thing. We didn't properly kill the Clippers on whatever the fuck these staggered double teams they were sending at Jokic, it just felt like over and over again, it was the wrong timing of it. And he just had it figured out in the second half. And OT is they're going to do this. I'm going to just hit the SOPA guy. But that shot Westbrook hit the three. I don't think I've ever seen anyone left more open at any level of basketball in any game I've ever watched in my life, including, like girls high school basketball in the eighth grade. He was open. Chris Dunn just. Jokic got the ball and Chris Dunn was closest to Westbrook, but he was probably six feet away and he just said, fuck it. And he went to the top of the key to double Yage. And Westbrook had. When I say nobody around him. If you just did a screenshot, it would look like he was by himself before the game. Like taking threes and somebody a fan on the court. Yeah, like he had time to line up so then he made it and he's like, that's what I do. That's what I do. He's doing that whole thing. It's like, dude, nobody's ever been left more open than you just were. Ever in a playoff game, ever. It was amazing.
- [51:12]
Ryan Rosillo
I love that play because I wonder how many people would throw it to him in that spot now. The uncontested three shooting numbers for Westbrook this year are actually pretty good.
- [51:24]
Bill Simmons
Well, for the whole, by the way, for the whole Nuggets team, because if you look at their three point shooting, it's kind of better than you think it would be. But the reason it's better than you think it would be because a lot of these threes are just wide open because of all the shots Yage creates for everybody. So you're shooting 39%, but most of those shots are like wide open shots.
- [51:42]
Ryan Rosillo
I just would wonder if you could ever get a couple beers and Yage years from now and be like, did you have just a moment of hesitation of going, this is the right read, it's the right basketball play, but do I really want him taking this one? And I think that this is why you can't ever question this guy's motivations is because I think he just wants to play the game the perfect way and that he would make that pass again if Westbrook missed it. I think there's a lot of guys that don't pass it to him.
- [52:08]
Bill Simmons
I think he is just conditioned to do. He's. He's the Terminator walking into the bar, making the calculations with all the math, and just makes the decision. I think every decision is just whatever the best basketball play is. That's what he does. So even if it's Russell Westbrook alone by 12ft in the corner, down to the biggest play of the game, I just think he's throwing it to him. That's like, that's a wide open guy. I am conditioned to throw it to that guy. And that's it.
- [52:36]
Ryan Rosillo
You're right.
- [52:37]
Bill Simmons
I think it could have been. It could have been Cerutty in the corner. Like, he doesn't care. Whoever that guy has the jersey on. I'm wearing the same jersey. He's open. I throw him the ball. That's what I do.
- [52:49]
Ryan Rosillo
A criticism of Jokic, if you wouldn't mind.
- [52:52]
Bill Simmons
Sure. It's a great time. It's. It's been. It's been. Been a lot of yage love lately, especially on this podcast. Go ahead.
- [53:02]
Ryan Rosillo
So the inbounding the ball thing that he does. All right, Denver fans, it's going to be okay. We'll get through this together. But this came up when it was the Ishbia thing. Remember when Ishbia had the ball and, like, Jokic went to grab it from him, and ISHB was just like, whatever. I caught a ton of shit because I was like, I could totally see just Ishbia thinking, like, what are you doing? Even though if it were just a normal fan, yeah, you got to give the ball back. But the argument is, well, Jokic loves to check it with the ref so he can inbound the ball ahead of a defense. Getting things sorted out. All right? Because there's numerous times throughout a game where you can see that he's doing it. He's quick to get in a position to inbound, then get the ball back, and he's trying to catch the defense off guard. It's smart, right? He should. He should keep doing it. However, there are times where it doesn't matter how quickly Jokic wants to inbound the ball. The refs have to sort some shit out, all right? And on that play where he and Van Gundy are battling for the basketball, there's no version of events where Jokic rips it from Van Gundy and then checks it and the ref just gives it back to him automatically. Advantage, Denver. There seems to be these people that think that Jokic just gets to do whatever he wants on the inbounding where, like, what. What would happen? The ref's like, oh, shit, he inbounded it, guys. Like, I know we have a review, and I know we have all these different. But, you know, you know, he wanted to get it in, so I just let him. So there seems to be this misunderstanding of. Of, like, who's in charge? Because there's plenty of times where it makes sense when the ref doesn't have anything that he has to sort out. There's nothing that they're worried about. There are other times where it's very clear and it's not as many times it's clear. The refs have to, like, figure a couple things out before he gets to just start the game. Because he wants to start the game. I don't mind him doing it. I mind people defending the idea that he's supposed to be able to do it every single time.
- [54:59]
Bill Simmons
You know who used to do it once upon a time? Cedric Maxwell. 50 minutes Larry. Joe Bird. He would get furious at the ref if they didn't throw him the ball in time. Say. I think he saw it the same way as Jokic. Like, it's almost like soccer, where the guy puts the free kick down really fast to try to try to get the advantage.
- [55:20]
Ryan Rosillo
Just like on the. The ISHBA play specifically. There was other stuff they had to get through and figure out they. They weren't just going to go, well, we had some questions about what happened. You got the ball in and, you know, so Ishbia.
- [55:36]
Bill Simmons
It's the most positive ISHBA reference in a while.
- [55:41]
Ryan Rosillo
The idea that he's on pace to be the worst owner in NBA history.
- [55:44]
Bill Simmons
Thank you. I was going to do this later, but let's do it now. Look, we both like Stephen A. I'm so tired of the historical hyperbole.
- [55:52]
Ryan Rosillo
He's got my vote.
- [55:53]
Bill Simmons
There's been so many worst owners over the course of 80 years than Matt Ishbia. Just trading a couple too many things for Kevin Durant and throwing some swaps at a Bradley Beal trade.
- [56:05]
Ryan Rosillo
Like, Sarver used to just sell picks.
- [56:08]
Bill Simmons
George Shin. They had to move the team to get him out of town because the town revolted against him owning a basketball team. Ted Steepien. They had to create a rule so that you couldn't trade draft Picks and consider it because he demolished the Cavaliers for the entire 1980s and basically helped the Magic Johnson 1980s Lakers dynasty with stupid trades. Like, I could go through a million of these. He's not in the top 20 yet.
- [56:37]
Ryan Rosillo
Was Dan Snyder that long ago?
- [56:39]
Bill Simmons
Well, he was saying NBA, right?
- [56:41]
Ryan Rosillo
Oh, was it just NBA?
- [56:42]
Bill Simmons
Oh, but even if it's NBA, even if it's just NBA, come up with 20.
- [56:45]
Ryan Rosillo
We haven't even mentioned Donald Trump.
- [56:48]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, we've had. But we've had a million of these. FYI, James Dolan wasn't exactly crushing it for 20 years there for the Knicks. Right? HP is. I don't know not to defend him, but Jesus, that's.
- [57:01]
Ryan Rosillo
That's not defending him. That's just.
- [57:03]
Bill Simmons
Oh, it's like. It's ridiculous. Like this whole thing where everything has to be the greatest, the best.
- [57:09]
Ryan Rosillo
Maybe this. Maybe it's an ishpia pod. Let's pivot. Let's get in front of that.
- [57:15]
Bill Simmons
Did that game make you feel better about voting for YIC for mvp? Because it did for me.
- [57:21]
Ryan Rosillo
Did the OKC Memphis game make people feel worse voting for sga? That seems totally unfair. So I retract that. No, look, I was totally comfortable. I was totally.
- [57:32]
Bill Simmons
Don't 100% retract it. Because that game was a fucking two hour display of how awesome OKC is. Like, that team's awesome. That was part of the case. If you were kind of nudging a little toward Yokage and a little away from sj, it's like, OKC is awesome. And OKC was. I mean, they. They beat Memphis to the point that I almost wonder if, like, if you win game one by 60 points, should the series just end? Like, what would be the right number where it's like, look, if you lose by 60, we're not playing the other games. It's done.
- [58:07]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, I love. I love the idea of this, but they're never giving up the television.
- [58:10]
Bill Simmons
No, I know they're not. But, like, what would be a number that would be, like, if you can't stay within 60 points of somebody in a game one, you can't play the rest of the games.
- [58:17]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. If you get it to 60, does that mean you're up 2 0? We'll see a game three.
- [58:21]
Bill Simmons
It's a double win.
- [58:22]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. I think if you get up 16 in NBA playoff game, there should be some. Like, it shouldn't just be 10 on the graphic next time Memphis plays basketball. All right, so let's. Before we do any of that, though, Cause I don't know. We're going to spend a ton of time on that.
- [58:36]
Bill Simmons
I have a Clippers thing. I don't want to leave Clippers Nuggets yet.
- [58:39]
Ryan Rosillo
I'm not done with it yet either, buddy.
- [58:41]
Bill Simmons
Great go.
- [58:41]
Ryan Rosillo
But the Yokich mvp. Yes, I voted for him for mvp. Anybody listening to this podcast knew that I was going to do it. I felt totally fine about it. I don't want to sit here and argue against SGA because he was awesome, she was awesome.
- [58:53]
Bill Simmons
He had an incredible candidacy.
- [58:54]
Ryan Rosillo
But you got there too, huh?
- [58:56]
Bill Simmons
I did. I did. You, I. You could tell it was coming like two, three weeks ago. The 60, 1010 game was probably the final thing for me. But I just, you know, I talked about it on my Thursday pod. At some point, if somebody's having the best offensive season you've seen since Michael Jordan, you gotta have to reconsider some of the, some of the standards you have for the award.
- [59:21]
Ryan Rosillo
I have, but I think my point, my point about you asking, but I wasn't on the fence. And then like the third quarter I went, okay, I got it, I got it right.
- [59:31]
Bill Simmons
Thank God Clippers. I have some Clipper fans in my life. It's an underrated oh my God, it's happening to us again team because we always think of like the typical, the big teams like the Buffalo Bills, like these teams in the playoffs where if something goes wrong, you. You start thinking about the history and the Clippers are such sad sacks. You kind of forget how bad the history is. And that loss was a bad loss. And yet I still think the Clipper fans are just feel like we can beat this team. We have a really good team. Kawhi being healthy and playing that many minutes and playing that many minutes just in general, it's one of those things you don't want to talk during a no hitter. But he looks really good like for where whatever we thought he was going to be at this stage of his career at age 33 after all the time he's kind of missed and come and gone like this is think like that. I think Harden. I think his legs look really good. For an older team, they look pretty good. I still think they're the second best team in the, in the West. Maybe Minnesota can steal that ceiling title for them, but I still think they're going to win the series.
- [60:41]
Ryan Rosillo
We have to. If we, if we're not done, are you done with the series? Because we haven't talked about Michael Porter Jr. We have to do a minute on that Go. Benched at the. Where do I have it? Here? 8:14 mark of the fourth quarter during my note taking exercise to try to remember stuff of all these games. Yeah, I did have a first half, third quarter mpj, wtf, question mark. Just notation. That's code for, like, sometimes I'll just write down a guy's name and I'll go, andrew Wiggins, question mark.
- [61:18]
Bill Simmons
You know, Tobias Harris. Three question marks.
- [61:21]
Ryan Rosillo
Hey, not in the first, not.
- [61:22]
Bill Simmons
Not in game one.
- [61:23]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, the lack of urgency from that guy is, it's not new. This isn't breaking news, but it's like, it's, it just blows your mind, like, if you really try to, like, hey, I'm going to watch some, like, where's this guy been? Like, let me watch what he's doing out there. Doesn't fight for rebounds, doesn't fight for positioning. If it's an offensive rebound and he's on defense and then the guys in front of him, he just kind of like, is there, there's, there's no contest, there's no effort. So they bench him. And it's funny too because you're thinking about, like, how's Westbrook going to play? Does this mean because Adelman's now coaching, that we're going to see Pickett out there closing? Because that's the sample that we got in that Sacramento game. Or it was like, oh, wait a minute, Westbrook's going to be on the bench.
- [62:12]
Bill Simmons
Scary. That is though, they're going to put Pickett in that game, which is becoming a must win game. Like, that would have been insane. But that, that was an actual option.
- [62:21]
Ryan Rosillo
But then it's. Well, now it doesn't even matter because it's going to be Brown, Gordon, obviously, who would be one of the three main guys with Murray and Jokic. And then Brown's going to be out there with Westbrook because there's no Michael Porter Jr. And so Adelman covered for him a bit, saying, hey, I didn't think it was fair, like to have him sit long stretches and then bring.
- [62:38]
Bill Simmons
Him back in to get back in. Yeah, for a while.
- [62:42]
Ryan Rosillo
What does that tell you? That tells you that he cannot. Michael Porter Jr. Is either somebody who does not respond to the criticism or responds poorly to it. Because I always think of, like, if you're that bad, and this is not new for him, as, as I've said, like, he's, he's a classic. Like, hey, hit a bunch of threes and I had 21 points, grabbed a few boards, like, he was really important for them some awesome shots in the fourth quarter. Like, clearly, he's already done that in playoff games. But then if he has zero, you know, like a lot of these guys that we talk about, you're not shocked, like, hey, how do you end up with three points? Well, like, you got the other version of him. But Jokic's quote here was pretty incredible. Now, again, three points in 26 minutes. And Jokic was asked about it. He said, quote, if you're not going to be engaged right now, then you're not supposed to be playing this sport. So you had the coach probably knowing, like, I can't get on him.
- [63:29]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, I just got this job two weeks ago. I'm a temp.
- [63:35]
Ryan Rosillo
We'll see. He's going to be back out there. I'm sure he's going to be back out there with the closing group and he's going to get another opportunity, but it'll always blow my mind.
- [63:43]
Bill Simmons
But here's why this matters, though.
- [63:45]
Ryan Rosillo
Not care. I don't know.
- [63:48]
Bill Simmons
In 23, when they won the title, he played 20 playoff games. 32.7 minutes a game, 8.1 rebounds a game. During that playoff stretch. Like, and. And I thought he was good during that run. And we kind of hit. Whatever the. Whatever you had in your head of where his career was going to go is like, you know, it'd be cool if he had 40% of his threes and he tried on defense and he rebounded. If you just get those three things, we're good. And now he doesn't rebound and the effort isn't there in the same way. And I said, Zach and I. I was on Zach's pod last week. We were talking about okc, and I asked how many guys on Denver would play for okc. And we went. And he's like, no, there'd be more. And I said, well, I don't think Porter would play for them. I don't think he'd play over Wiggins. And. And Zach said he'd play over Wiggins. And I don't know whether that's right or wrong. I genuinely don't think he would play over Wiggins. I think Wiggins really gives a shit. Plays defense, hits threes. He's athletic. He gives a shit. I said that twice. I don't think Porter would get on the floor for them because he doesn't play hard enough. He wouldn't play. He wouldn't play over two years ago. He would have play over chat.
- [64:54]
Ryan Rosillo
He wouldn't play over Dort. He wouldn't Play over Wallace. He wouldn't play over SGA. He wouldn't play over Jalen Williams. 1. He wouldn't play over Caruso.
- [65:03]
Bill Simmons
It's basically the Wiggins spot.
- [65:05]
Ryan Rosillo
Joe or Wiggins?
- [65:06]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, I'm playing both of those guys over Porter, this version of Porter.
- [65:11]
Ryan Rosillo
And knowing what they prioritize. Yeah, he's the antithesis of what they're about.
- [65:16]
Bill Simmons
So here's the thing. This might have worked out for Denver, where Porter has some sort of come to Jesus moment, but he's also had a really, I think, difficult year. And I. And I. Maybe that's affected the off the court stuff with his brother, which was, you know, pretty horrible. He's already won a title. So when you win a title, it's like, what? I don't have to sacrifice in the same way. I'm already a champion. And maybe you're in that mode of, like. I'm tired of hearing about how great Jokic is. I'm good, too. I'll never. Nobody ever appreciate me on this. Like, who knows what's in his head. But whatever he did in game one was disgusting. It sucked.
- [65:50]
Ryan Rosillo
The problem is the off the court stuff is significant. Right. Because it's not just his brother. It's. It's.
- [65:57]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, he's got a lot of stuff.
- [65:58]
Ryan Rosillo
Right. It's a lot of going on. But if this were abnormal for him in a game, I think those excuses would be more of. Of like the conclusion that I've come to. The problem is, is this is kind of who he's been. This has always been. It's just even crazier, too. Like, thinking back to all of the stories that worked their way out of, like, the divide between Calvin Booth and Mike Balone, and then Booth at one point saying, hey, we need to trade Michael Porter Jr. Because there probably still be some kind of fake attraction to the idea of him. He's still really young. What, he's 26, 27. He's. Two more years.
- [66:38]
Bill Simmons
Would you trade him for Levine?
- [66:41]
Ryan Rosillo
I. I think Levine is a bigger losing player than Even Michael Porter Jr. Is because he has the ball in his hands more. So probably not. But that there was this Missouri connection. And you just think, like, what are you guys talking about? That can't be true. That can't. He was barely at Mizzou. He was barely there. And so now it's like this guy that's. Seems to be indifferent at the wrong times.
- [67:04]
Bill Simmons
I'm looking at our YouTube chat to see if anybody has Michael Porter Jr. Doesn't seem like he's very popular in the chat. But the thing, the thing is, they don't just need him. They actually need him to play like 32 to 35 minutes a game. It's not just like, oh, it'd be nice if he helped us out. They actually need real minutes from him because the more minutes he plays, you know, the less other people play. So.
- [67:29]
Ryan Rosillo
But just to review though, he played 53 minutes in college. 53 minutes. And we're supposed to believe because the Missouri connection to ownership, there's. It's. That's like me being on Minneapolis Zillow because I've used the airport like, I like it here. Like, have you ever been outside of the airport? Like, I've been to that airport probably 40, 50 times. I've never been to the town.
- [67:49]
Bill Simmons
I think I've been to the Atlanta airport like 30 times. And I've been to Atlanta twice only. That'd be interesting. That'll be an interesting one of times. Most airports you've been in versus times you've actually been in the city.
- [68:02]
Ryan Rosillo
Detroit's up there. But I've been to Detroit.
- [68:07]
Bill Simmons
Detroit, Hartford, Detroit to somewhere else.
- [68:09]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, well, I used to just spend a lot of time in Detroit. Who wouldn't? I'd leave Hartford being like, if I can do this, I can do Detroit. But when I. Canada's right there. I've never been to Minneapolis.
- [68:21]
Bill Simmons
I didn't even go for the. For the Super Bowl.
- [68:25]
Ryan Rosillo
I skipped that one.
- [68:26]
Bill Simmons
This episode is brought to you by Loom by Atlassian. Feeling stuck is the worst. We were all feeling it during COVID right? Just staring at the same walls every day and the same people, unable to really go anywhere. Just being in a funk. Well, if you're feeling stuck at work right now, too many meetings and hunting down teammates to get approvals, there's an easy fix. Get unstuck with video messaging from Loom. By Atlassian. With Loom, you can record your screen, your camera, and your voice to share video messages easily. Using video helps you and your team save time and stay connected even when you're working across time zones. So now you can delete that novel length email you're writing instead. Record your screen, share your message faster with Loom. It also has editing and AI features to help you record once and get back to the work that counts. Unstuck your process, projects and teams with video communication from Loom. Try Loom today@loom.com that is L O O M. This episode is brought to you by vrbo. Private vacation rentals with vrbo, you always get the whole house so you and your fellow fans can cheer on your team in peace. What's worse than watching a game with somebody who's not rooting for the same team? You're rooting for nothing. But that's why if you book a vacation house with vrbo, you know all the people in your house, they'll be friends, they'll be family. Ideally, they'll be the ones who also root for my teams. Plan a winning vacation. Make it a verbo. Can we do okc? Grizz really quick? I think Memphis is not a good basketball team. And it made me mad that Dallas couldn't beat them. And I, I bet the sweep immediately. Like immediately for this series. Maybe I'll be wrong.
- [70:08]
Ryan Rosillo
What was the odds? What were the payouts on that? What would they be?
- [70:11]
Bill Simmons
The odds were, I have that here plus 140.
- [70:20]
Ryan Rosillo
That's what I got it at.
- [70:24]
Bill Simmons
That was as big of a first half ass kicking as I can probably ever remember watching in a playoff game. And I know there was, there were games where there were bigger blowouts, but it wasn't just that they were killing them. It was like they were just rebounding and getting three on ones. And I thought Memphis gave up. It was a Jaren Jackson trademark year, trademark. An all time hall of Fame Tobias Harris game. I didn't realize he was out there for a half hour. At one point I thought he maybe left and was playing video games in the locker room, but it turned out he was still out there. It's just, it's just grim and I don't see any chance. This is a team that is really built to, to defend JA with as many options as you could possibly come up with, plus rent protection. And there's, you know, unless Desmond Baines just can hit 12 threes in a game, I don't see a case. But I think Memphis. Can we officially make them a team to watch this summer? Because I don't feel like this will be the same nucleus in a couple months.
- [71:28]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I don't know. Ownership loves Jaw and Jaren had a great year this year. He was terrible today. It's an awful matchup for them because it's Jaw going up against Door and then Banes going up against J Will. So then it's, it's 9 for 29 combined from your backcourt who physically has no chance against that group. And then on top of everything else, Jaren Jackson's like, shit. So I get Chet or Hart Hartenstein against me here.
- [71:51]
Bill Simmons
I thought Incredible today.
- [71:53]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Bane was a minus.
- [71:54]
Bill Simmons
Incredible.
- [71:55]
Ryan Rosillo
Bane was a minus 51. JJ was 2 for 13.
- [71:59]
Bill Simmons
Minus 51.
- [72:00]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, you don't see that a lot. At one point I was rooting one. 10:55 was in play. I didn't get there.
- [72:08]
Bill Simmons
I watched the entire game. My mom was over for Easter and I was like, hold on. Like, I, I, I was really, I like the double. The.
- [72:15]
Ryan Rosillo
That sounds like something I would say. Don't you think that's a little sad? You watched this whole game and your mother was in town.
- [72:20]
Bill Simmons
Well, I had it on. I mean, it was, it was on the kitchen. I was focused on it there. Okay, Mary's.
- [72:25]
Ryan Rosillo
But here's the other part. SGA started this game one of nine and it was 63 to 32. SG had 15 points. It's his lowest total since team Kenny and team Shaq. If you don't count those games. It's the lowest. The lowest he had had was very early in the season. We had 18. So game one of the playoffs, they come out here and do this and he only had 15 points and he missed like all of his shots until he hit some more a little bit later. This was so gross. It's the biggest blowout in the playoffs in 10 years when the Bulls meet the Bucks back in 2015 by 54 points. And it's always easy to say but, yeah, but this felt worse. I think it's just because it's like if I have to hear about the Grizzlies being a fucking two seed anymore, it's like, yeah, all right. Yeah. The standings broke one way and you were kind of a two seed and you were two seeds in that other year and you guys really are proud. Like, when are you guys raising the two seed banner started like we were a two seat at one point and it just.
- [73:28]
Bill Simmons
What was that Indy Colts banner? What was it, the AFC south champs or whatever?
- [73:34]
Ryan Rosillo
Is that what it was? I don't know.
- [73:37]
Bill Simmons
They had a bad banner. I'm trying to. That would be a good website. Worst banners.
- [73:41]
Ryan Rosillo
That would be. You start that if things don't work.
- [73:44]
Bill Simmons
Out after the pod, I guess.
- [73:46]
Ryan Rosillo
Look, anybody that heard the Verno pod could tell I was kind of like running out of patience with this Memphis group.
- [73:51]
Bill Simmons
Oh. Saruta said 2014 AFC finalists was the cold spanner. AFC championship finalists. It's pretty bad.
- [74:00]
Ryan Rosillo
It's a tough banner. I, I just, you know, the build up and like Jaws looking around and it's like, all right. And then Jalen Rose is even like a shoe comes out Today and he's wants to announce to the world that like, even though SG is getting all this love, like I'm at this level and then OKC is just looking at me like, what are you going to do? Going to go under every screen. You're going to hit the first three, you're going to miss the rest of them and then you're going to do shit where you get into the paint. Sometimes it works, but against us, like if you wait around against okc, as I've said all season long, if you dick around with the basketball, they're going to make you pay. And so breaking the paint and then just kind of dancing around hoping you're going to get some angle against all these guys that are so much bigger than you. So there sounds like there's like real dislike in my voice. I know when I talk about Memphis and I'm. I actually feel bad about, about a little bit because I think they do do a really good job and they've done like a really good job on the margins with all these players. I'm like, hey, nobody really liked this guy. They were smart about it. They've nailed all these draft picks. Even Pippen Jr. Like, that guy's going to play a really long time. I love his toughness, but to come out and just get stomped like that. It should be however the rest of the series goes. This should have been some kind of wake up call of like we might be lying to ourselves down here a little bit about what our ceiling actually is, but they probably won't do anything because Jaws, easily the most famous guy in sports.
- [75:18]
Bill Simmons
You could talk yourself into a. Well, the coach thing was weird. We don't have Brandon Clark. Jalen Wells got hurt. Let's take a, let's take a look at this. In the off season, Edie was turned out to be a great pick. Feeling good there.
- [75:31]
Ryan Rosillo
Great pick. I think he's serviceable.
- [75:32]
Bill Simmons
Well, for number nine in a bad time.
- [75:36]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, but I'm.
- [75:38]
Bill Simmons
I'm just trying to do the glass half full Grizzlies. Case I. The question for me is if you're sitting in whatever office talking about, let's make a big move, who's out there. Whether Memphis would admit it or not, they're not hanging up. If you're like, I have this really good offer for John Moran, can we talk about it? They're not going to like, nope.
- [75:59]
Ryan Rosillo
I think Jaw's the kind of guy owners love and will defend forever because he's their attraction. And if you're in Memphis, that's probably as important as. Well, I guess they were a two seat so.
- [76:09]
Bill Simmons
All right, well they have their three guys and they feel a million miles away from OKC and OKC is still stacking up and they have three draft picks this draft and I mean you're so far away. I don't know. It'd be a tough, tough exit interview for the, for the group. And we don't know if that coach is coming. I'd heard that the. Maybe they did that Jenkins move because they wanted to lock down that coach cause they're afraid they're going to lose him. So maybe he's the coach going forward, I don't know. But anyway, I'm going to probably not watch a lot of that series going forward unless the score is like 150 and I can get excited that they might double a score because I don't think okc.
- [76:48]
Ryan Rosillo
Let me ask you this. What would OKC need to do? Or is it irrelevant because it's Memphis for before people start to realize like how special this team is.
- [76:55]
Bill Simmons
It's not going to happen until they play Lakers. Who for? Oh, it's Clippers, Denver, probably that series, probably round two. If they're just walloping whoever comes out of that Clippers Denver thing, that's when I think people would be like, holy shit. But yeah, it's not. I just think people aren't going to believe it until they see it against real teams in the playoffs. Knicks, Pistons. What is your opinion for why Cade was so bad in that game? I have an opinion, but I'm interested in yours. Because Cade was bad.
- [77:30]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, he was. I think OG makes you work a lot and I think it kind of slows down the first thing that you're going to do. I thought they were doing a better job bringing him off the ball in some of the regular season games and then coming back to the ball. It seemed like they kind of abandoned a lot of that stuff. Hey, they were a mess. The five second violation to start the fourth quarter. Next possession 24 second violation. Turnover, turnover, turnover campaign of all people going off the Ms. Dunk although made made up for it. That was a disaster. Start of that's 21 nothing run the whole time. You seem like you have something specific though to the Cade matchup here that you want.
- [78:06]
Bill Simmons
No, you said the number one thing I would have said is I. First of all, OG's been awesome for two months here and I thought he was really good yesterday. No, I had a big picture point. I don't think Home court matters anymore really that much as we saw with like how good the Celtics are on the road and at home they would just blow these games left and right. And I. We've seen teams lose game sevens at home over and over again, every playoffs and in general, I just don't think. It's not like it was in the 80s, you know. And even if you're like watching Celtic City, like some of those games that even I was lucky enough to be at, the crowds were different. The crowds are on top of you. You had the people on the bench, they had people sitting in the rows behind them just screaming at them the whole game. There was like an intimidation factor that I think is just not there anymore. I think it's. I think it's just more benevolent to be on the road. Just in general. It's easier to fly to a game. Your private jets, you're staying at nice hotels. There's just things that are more in your favor if you're the road team. I think the Knicks still have a home court advantage. I thought the Pistons got rattled when that 21 to nothing as that was happening. It was a thing that you don't really see that often anymore. A younger team getting affected by the momentum of a game and how much the crowd was into it. Because I thought the crowd was great and I knew a bunch of people that were there who said the same thing. But I thought the crowd and the energy of, of what they had and what some of the players had and Towns, which. That was about as much fun as I've had watching Towns as a two way guy probably ever OG Brunson was. You know, Brunson, it seems like he's hurt, then he's not hurt, then he seems hurt again, then he's fine. But Brunson was gutting it out and everybody won from that game except for Bridges. Cause Bridges was bad and he was on the, on the bench basically the entire time. They, they brought it back. But if you're Detroit, you're like, fuck. We got this incredible Harris game right at 22. What at halftime we were able to match our energy. Stewart gets hurt at the beginning of the fourth quarter and they get nothing from Cade. But they still hung around, hung around, hung around. And then the, the Knicks just made them look like the young team that wasn't ready to be in an atmosphere like that. That was my takeaway.
- [80:21]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I think all that's really fair. That place is awesome. That's not breaking news, but it really kind of went the way I thought, like, I thought the third quarter was so impressive from Detroit.
- [80:33]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [80:34]
Ryan Rosillo
When in that one? 36, 26. I'm going, well, this is not what I expected. Like, I just figured Detroit's going to get reminded that there's levels to this and that New York, even though they had the injuries last year, they're just going to be way more comfortable in these games than Detroit's going to be. And if I look at a Malik Beasley who, you know, hit a ton of shots, I feel like, do I want. Do I expect that those are going to go in in the fourth quarter? Like, he's. He's in that group for me right now where, like, he's feeling himself. He's been awesome this entire season. He's so important to what they do. You know, just the idea of actually having spacing around Cade this year, as opposed to what they tried to do last year. But I don't know that I expect those shots to go in, in the fourth quarter and then you have another player where there's a turnover and it's, you know, look, this is a playoff game. New York's running away with this thing. The place is going crazy. Tons of momentum, get back on defense. Tim Hardaway lets Brunson run away from him. There was just so many bad plays, turnovers, looking like they're not.
- [81:32]
Bill Simmons
Were.
- [81:33]
Ryan Rosillo
Like they just. They just weren't up to the task at all of the emotion of what that game was to close it. And I think the Cat part of it, it's. That's great for him in this series, is even if Stewart's gonna stretch the floor a little bit, it's not gonna lose you the game. So Cat doesn't really have to worry about that. Cat has to figure out a way to just be in position on some of the Cade stuff that he was out of position on in the third quarter. But if Duran's in, as much as he's gonna make you work. Cause he's a beast out there. You don't really have to defend him. You just. And Cat's big enough, and he's rebounded, like, at a Hall of Fame level his entire career, so he's going to be able to fight for some of his rebounds. I'm sure Kat's looking at this being like, okay, I'm going to get hurt on some of these where I come up to meet the ball and I'm going to get burnt. But I'm also not worrying about, like, Porzingis as a stretch five or I'm not worrying about some super dynamic guy who's going to get all of these options offensively at center. So that's going to be a bit of a relief for him. And, you know, campaign scoring 11 points in just a few minutes. They didn't even bring back Mikhail to your point until, like, it was kind of over. So I don't. I don't know that there's a. If Detroit had done this, I just think they were completely overwhelmed, which. The fourth quarter made way more sense to me than the. The third quarter did yesterday.
- [82:48]
Bill Simmons
The third quarter. The fourth quarter was hilarious from a tech standpoint because I think at this point I was either at WrestleMania or we were going there. And I just decided it's too hard for me to watch this next game. I'm going to just. I'll bang it out when I get home, I'll bang out like the second half. And I had these texts. I won't say who sent them, but one of them was, this is very disturbing to say the least. No ball movement. Brunson dribbling away. They're a better team with Robinson. And then 10 minutes later, I take it all back. That was one. There was a. Another one. The Dante Julius trade is such a disaster. Motherfuck. And then right after timestamp above is when we tied game, by the way. It doesn't matter. And then I was like, ha, ha, you guys came back. It was a lot of those. The Knicks fans were freaking out in the third quarter. And that was what was so funny, when the energy shifted, watching it on tv, knowing what had already happened. Look, it's a really good team. I don't think they're in the class of Boston. Like, to me, they remind me of, oh, man, this is going to get clipped and probably come back to haunt me. They remind me one of those NFL teams, like the. Like a Houston Texan season where they win the wild card game, and it's like, do you think they can win three more? And it's like, not really. I just think they're going to beat the teams that they're better than. And when they get to that next class, that higher class, I don't think they have enough. Even the campaign thing, that's ridiculous. He's not going. He's going to do that once every three weeks, right? That's not going to be a recurring thing with Campaign. That's. If he does that again, it'll be a miracle. It's Campaign. I don't know how.
- [84:32]
Ryan Rosillo
What other conclusion is anyone supposed to come to. Okay? I mean, this becomes. Is this what you think is going to happen based on your analysis, or is this what you hope happens because you have a poster home? All right? And I can't. I can't argue with anybody like that. The only evidence we have is that they don't beat the elite teams because they didn't beat the elite teams. I mean, they basically want a fucking parade for losing in overtime to the Celtics. Like, the reaction that I saw from that stuff was, hey, this is a turning point and proves that they can. They can hang with. With this team. They should smoke Detroit. Detroit's not ready for this. And they. They proved it in the fourth quarter. But that third quarter was fun. That third quarter, I was like, what's going on here?
- [85:11]
Bill Simmons
There's one thing with Detroit that I'm going to be really interested to see if they do it a little more. I thought Schroeder had a really interesting second half. And I've always liked Schroeder, as, you know, like, I. I probably like him more than most, but I think he's a pest. I always felt like he was the best guy in the league, defending Steph out of anybody in the league. He would have been the number one guy I picked to just, like, bug Steph, and I feel like he can bug Brunson. And I do think there's some sort of lineup with two smaller guards with Beasley with the center and then with the shooter, that they might be able to at least hang around in these games. If I'm the Pistons. I thought. I thought this was. I thought this is one of my favorite bets that the series would not go six games. I still don't think it's going to go six games. But if I'm the Pistons, you're at least talking yourself into. Look, Cade's not going to be that bad again. He was really good all year. Like, he has another. This will be a good motivating for them.
- [86:05]
Ryan Rosillo
That's. That's. There's also something with Bickerstaff in this one that I don't know if it's worth even mentioning, but I'm going to mention it because it's a podcast matching the Asar minutes with Brunson. Now, Asar should be plenty fresh. He's young. He's literally more athletic than everybody else in the league, except for maybe his brother, an ant, you know, but they actually had him out there when Brunson wasn't in, in the start of the fourth quarter, and I was just Wondering.
- [86:36]
Bill Simmons
It should be like a cornerback coming in to just defend a specific receiver.
- [86:40]
Ryan Rosillo
Because even if you expect, like, no one with that profile and that age would ever actually get tired in a basketball game. I imagine the excitement and the adrenaline because of the stakes and the playoffs. Like, I don't know if I'd want to waste a couple minutes of him being out there chasing other dudes around. And then bigger steps clearly, too. You know, a bit like the eme thing. He was. He was trying to figure out what he thought was the best lineup. Because it's like, do I want to have a star out there without any kind of spacing? Because spacing's like the number one thing with Cade. I have to find a way to get spacing. But then it means defensively, like, does that mean now we've got guys hunting Beasley. We have guys hunting hard away. And by the way, if the pistons get down 2 oh here or it's ugly. If it were ugly at the end of game two, I'm fully expecting, like, abs Red Wings type of moment. Like somebody Beasley is down for something. Sh's not afraid to screw around. I don't know if It'd be a SAR.
- [87:33]
Bill Simmons
I thought it would happen during that 21 nothing run. I was waiting for the clothesline or, you know, something like that. And by the way, that also should have been Memphis today. How many. How many baskets can OKC before you. Somebody on the. You just have to at least contest a layup, for God's sakes. It's pretty brutal. I'm not doing the old guy. Back in my day, we would have clothesline, blah, blah, blah.
- [87:57]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, the problem is when Memphis, there was one miss on that Jalen Williams dunk, not the one where he dunked on everybody. I think that was a little later. There was one earlier one where outside of. I think it was Pippin or Bain missed the shot and he was deep in the paint. And then I looked at where everybody was in transition, and all four other Memphis players were feet below the free throw line. Like, a couple were on the baseline. All four weren't on the baseline. So they didn't even have anybody position to do anything. Yeah, it was. Jalen Williams was gone.
- [88:29]
Bill Simmons
I think you're right about game two. They're going to definitely muck it up. That would be my Detroit. That would be my guess. We. We are going to get a way more physical game. And we'll see the bridges piece of it, which has been up and down all year. And we've Talked about it a bunch of times, but he finished better.
- [88:48]
Ryan Rosillo
He definitely finished better. Man, I felt. No, during the season, I felt great about him as. As the season went on.
- [88:54]
Bill Simmons
But it was a storyline is my point. It was discussed on and off during the season. I just want to shout out one thing with that Thompson does. I think he's the number one guy. If I'm inbounding the ball and I'm a point guard and I just have to dribble 50ft to set up my offense, I think he's the number one guy I wouldn't want to see in front of me. There's something about what he does with cutting the angles off to the guy, like pushing them toward the sidelines, but being able to move his feet with his hands up. I've never seen anybody. I can't think of anybody who's been better. Like maybe like Alvin Robinson. I don't remember that one. You even go way back for me. Pippen used to do that. Remember when Pippen and Jordan would do this sometimes? So they'd be like, hey, let's just go get the ball. And they would just like defend. They would defend 94ft and people like literally couldn't dribble the ball up to mid court. He is so terrifying. But I think for the Pistons, like putting those miles on Brunson where he's just like actually working just to get the ball 60ft, like it's a real thing. So I bet they do that more.
- [89:57]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, that play where Brunson freaked out and got mad and started clapping at the ref.
- [90:01]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [90:02]
Ryan Rosillo
Assar had position on him. He just wrote him right out of bounds. And maybe if I had said Alvin Robertson, you would have remembered Alvin had.
- [90:12]
Bill Simmons
A good fight with Shaq. Remember that one?
- [90:16]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. I don't know why I use David Robinson's last name, but. Spurs getting older.
- [90:19]
Bill Simmons
We're getting old. Cav seat. Is there anything you need to see from Cleveland this series?
- [90:26]
Ryan Rosillo
Man, more Ty Jerome. 20 of 28 points.
- [90:31]
Bill Simmons
He, he. How many games has he done this? Like 20 where he just completely takes over a game. Huh?
- [90:38]
Ryan Rosillo
6. It's not 20. You think it's no.
- [90:41]
Bill Simmons
Where he just takes over like a four minute stretch of a game.
- [90:47]
Ryan Rosillo
Right? This, this felt like a lot.
- [90:50]
Bill Simmons
I mean he just comes 17 points in five minutes.
- [90:54]
Ryan Rosillo
Mitchell and Garland are taking turns, so that's all working. So there was never like that lull. And then if you're Miami and you're fighting, you're trying so hard, like you have no chance in the playoffs with the construction of this team. And this is the best I've ever felt about Hero as a shot creator. Right. Him being the one option, you get to see some of the stuff that he's capable of doing and it's really, really impressive. It's also really hard when the number two is Andrew Wiggins, who has like three makes in the first quarter and then didn't have another make until like the fourth quarter. I think he had like two more, but it was just one was like sort of in the game. The other one was completely irrelevant. So part of the Andrew Wiggins experience. As much as I love Bam, I love Bam. But offensively there's going to be some limitations there. So that's your 1, 2. If you're Miami trying to hang with Cleveland, that feels like they have all of these offensive options and Ty Jerome comes in to close the game scoring 20 of 28 points of Cleveland.
- [91:51]
Bill Simmons
Like it's just making like a 30 footer.
- [91:53]
Ryan Rosillo
Right.
- [91:54]
Bill Simmons
You left out with your Miami options. You left. You left out the high screen with our guy Davion.
- [91:59]
Ryan Rosillo
How about him at the Atlanta. Like it's a little difference with Trey Young is assigned to you, but Davion did have some more buckets. Cause Davion feels like he probes a lot and there's certain people that he doesn't want to challenge. So I've been kind of mixed on like how much is he really giving you offensively? And he's been terrific for him.
- [92:17]
Bill Simmons
So he's definitely a rotation guy.
- [92:19]
Ryan Rosillo
Oh, easily.
- [92:20]
Bill Simmons
I think next year he's 100% could be on a good team playing 15 to 20 minutes a game. But the thing I, I texted this to you. I still don't understand why they punted on Schroeder and what the, what the thinking was with that. I'm sure there was tax apron stuff, but I don't understand how the team we're watching in this game today didn't need Schroeder for 20 minutes, 25 minutes. Like they basically nudged him away. And I know there are some financial implications to it, but it's a weird.
- [92:49]
Ryan Rosillo
One for Hiro to have to go up against this defense knowing that even if you pull a rabbit out of your hat because he is like, there are some shots that Hero gets into that are really high level shots.
- [93:01]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [93:01]
Ryan Rosillo
Just on my own runner, floater.
- [93:03]
Bill Simmons
Things he's doing is, yeah, pretty nuts.
- [93:06]
Ryan Rosillo
You know, I can't believe Portland said no to him in that little trade because this guy's awesome. But the the rest of the guys around him like, and even bam. Like, there's only certain places he can start with the ball in his hands to be like, hey, we need a bucket now. Bam. So then heroes coming out of there. That's why it just. You kept looking at the score going, when is this thing going to be over? When is it going to be over? There's no way Cleveland's actually going to lose. There's no way this is going to be like a possession.
- [93:33]
Bill Simmons
Well, I. Miami's not. Miami shouldn't be a playoff team. And honestly, neither should Memphis. Like, there's 13 teams. There's Memphis and Miami. There's, there's, you know, I think Orlando at least can throw some punches and has two good scores. Like, they feel playoff teamy to me. Right?
- [93:55]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah.
- [93:56]
Bill Simmons
Okay. With them in the playoffs, they're obviously a guy short, but the argument for.
- [94:00]
Ryan Rosillo
The playing is, is, you know, there's plenty of teams that have had injuries and Memphis would say, hey, look, if we'd had Jaw the full year. But I don't know, the west is so packed. Does it guarantee that they're a top six? I don't think that guarantees it.
- [94:12]
Bill Simmons
I think the Kyrie thing was the biggest one of all of them. I think if, if Kyrie had never gotten hurt, I think Dallas would have been a really good eight seed. They would have lost, but at least they would add defense and a score and they would have been something of a team.
- [94:25]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, that would have been a fun team. I'm with you there, but I just want to come full circle on this whole playing thing.
- [94:30]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [94:31]
Ryan Rosillo
Because this was the reason I didn't like it. Because you're going to have these teams. Like there was, I would think, an eight game win separation based on the 10 seed in the west and then what the seventh seed or eight seed? I forget. So I guess I could pull it up right now. But the point stands is that why are you giving these teams that stink another chance to get into this entire thing? Now there still had to be eight teams, but it just was funny. Like when you had Lakers warriors with the Steph LeBron showdown four years ago and it's like, oh, I thought the playing stunk and it's like, no, it's the principle. It is what the, what the play in stands for. If the games are good, then of course we're all going to enjoy good games. But guess what happened this year. Now everybody doesn't like the play in simply because of the results of the games and whether or Not. They were entertaining.
- [95:16]
Bill Simmons
And they don't tell Amazon because I think this is part of their package. Amazon was excited for the play and. But there are. How many good.
- [95:24]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, it doesn't matter.
- [95:25]
Bill Simmons
It's just we went 2 for 6 in the play in this year. I'd love to know the batting average for the four years, but it's gotta be about 30%.
- [95:32]
Ryan Rosillo
Miami, Atlanta was great. It was a fun game.
- [95:35]
Bill Simmons
I enjoyed it as well. It was a fun one. I wonder if it should just be 8, 8, 9. Winner of 8, 9 plays the 7 for the 7, 8 seating or something like that, and we just get rid of the 10 seed. I think it's going to be hard to find a. A 10 seed that is kind of deserves to get any sort of stage. You're gonna end up in like that weird Sacramento thing. I mean, we didn't even talk about the Sacramento. This, this is. This is now a top three. What the hell is this organization gonna do? Organization? The Sabonis piece of it, you know.
- [96:11]
Ryan Rosillo
And I thought a good job. I'm. I'm guarantee you Vivek wanted Zach Levine. He seems like the kind of guy an owner would be like, but he scores a million points.
- [96:23]
Bill Simmons
Celtics, Orlando, anything before we go to Pacers, Bucks. Come on.
- [96:28]
Ryan Rosillo
I thought we were going to lead with it. That's what you had said in the text. The show rundown that I got.
- [96:32]
Bill Simmons
Which one? Go for it.
- [96:36]
Ryan Rosillo
Go for it. Come on. Give us a couple minutes. Bill.
- [96:39]
Bill Simmons
The Celtics are really good. Orlando doesn't have enough good players. And Orlando needs some sort of guard who can create stuff for them because what they have is not enough. That's my analysis. The disparity between the two teams was significant. I never for a split second thought the Celtics were in danger of losing the game. And Tatum didn't even play well offensively. He's had a good rebounding game. I liked how hard he played. I thought he was good defensively. Thought he attacked the rim. But the guards won the game. And Jrue clearly has multiple gears. Like the Drew that was in the game today. They were Drew. He's doing the Chad Finn called it the Dennis Johnson like, I'll turn it on when the games start mattering. And he's, you know, he's. He just looked great. Porzingis looks good. Team looks good. Feeling good. Jalen's knee looked okay. Didn't see any red flags anywhere.
- [97:32]
Ryan Rosillo
Tatum, wrist X rays all good. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
- [97:36]
Bill Simmons
I had a couple Celtic fans in my life who were mad about that. Foul. I thought it was. I thought it was a good play. I thought they're trying to stop a dunk. Like, it's playoff basketball. Your job is to try to stop somebody from dunking in traffic, you know, and they caught a flagrant one on it. I. I could have gone either way on it, but I didn't have a problem with that. I didn't think it was cheap. Did you?
- [97:56]
Ryan Rosillo
No. I didn't even think it was a flagrant run. It's all depends on how everybody's. Everybody's losing their mind. If you want to tell me Wendell Carter had his hand in his back a little bit. Okay, fine. But I didn't think it was like an extended arm thing out. But the standard of what we all now think is flagrant. It's like concussion experts on Twitter on Thursday Night Football and like, I don't know, dude, you didn't look very good. You're like. You're not even on the sideline. Dude, you're home. Look, I didn't think it was a flagrant foul, but you're right. I mean, Tatum's 8 of 22, 1 to 8 from 3. Jaylen Brown, 6 of 14. And by the way, his foul at the end of the third quarter, which then restarted the end of the third quarter. Like, he has got. I don't know what's going on over there at Harvard, but they. There needs to be a. Hey, this would be a good time to foul. This would be a bad time to foul. Maybe it's a one conference. Yeah, it doesn't. Yeah, maybe we get a paper. Somebody put a paper together. Because he just. He has these moments, man, where I'm like, what the are you doing anyway? 6 of 14 today. So that's what, 14 for 36 from your two best players, and you close out almost up.
- [98:59]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, when the guards play like that, they're. Yeah, it's very hard for them to lose.
- [99:03]
Ryan Rosillo
There'll be no Palo slander also, because you got to see that tonight. And I thought drew on Paulo at least making him have to work to get into his stuff. But Orlando has no chance. We knew they had no chance. And I also thought if we were doing a Wendell Carter maybe update. He played today. You may not have noticed he had, like, 12 rebounds. Yeah. But. Yeah, to see his effort level against somebody like Al Horford's effort level when Al knew they needed to crank up the energy. And Al's fighting and he's grabbing loose balls and he's starting the fast break, and you're like, man, Carter was actually like when I did him his draft year phrasing, I was like, he kind of has a little Horfordish stuff in there that's even a word. And then it's like, yep, there's no, there's no wonder. Look for desire. Bill.
- [99:58]
Bill Simmons
I was trying to think of a scenario where Orlando could win a game because I still feel like Boston's not going to sweep. Think Boston will have a weird game where they just don't make threes, but I also think if they played defense, it would be impossible for Orlando to get to like 98 points. So it'd have to be the combination of not making threes, not playing defense for like an hour and get Orlando up. But I if Boston plays defense, I just don't see how Orlando is going to score even in the game today. They had 18 points in the first quarter, 18 in the third, 19 in the fourth. Like, it's just, it's going to be.
- [100:30]
Ryan Rosillo
Really hard new they're, they're so bad on offense at times.
- [100:34]
Bill Simmons
Just tough to watch.
- [100:35]
Ryan Rosillo
Right? So their third leading scorer with Jonathan. Jonathan Isaac with you want to guess how many points?
- [100:41]
Bill Simmons
10.
- [100:41]
Ryan Rosillo
7.
- [100:42]
Bill Simmons
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- [102:36]
Ryan Rosillo
Look at you.
- [102:37]
Bill Simmons
The Bucks looked horrible. Dame didn't play. There was this weird. Dame's gonna. Dame's back. I think people thought he was gonna be back for game one just because of the way the announcement came out.
- [102:49]
Ryan Rosillo
And he said he was off the medication, so.
- [102:51]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [102:52]
Ryan Rosillo
Cause he was.
- [102:52]
Bill Simmons
But even if he comes back, he's not gonna be in game shape. The Pacers love to pressure the ball full court. I just think there's so many things wrong. And then, well, what ha Was has to happen for the Bucks to win the series? Well, Kevin Porter needs to really come through. It's like, well, he wasn't on the team two months ago, so I'm not. If it's okay, I'm not going to count on that. And just like pencil and Giannis for 38 and 20 every game, I still don't think they're winning the series. And I also think the Pacers are good. I think Pacers. Cleveland is going to be a really, really good series. But the big question is, you know, is the clock going to start on Giannis? That's going to be the ESPN topic tomorrow. Especially if they fall down to nothing. What happens to Giannis? Where is he gonna go like. And this is. We said all this before the playoffs.
- [103:36]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, but we can't do that to the Bucks. You can't do that to the Bucks after one game. There can't be a Giannis. Where is he gonna go after one fucking playoff game?
- [103:43]
Bill Simmons
It was starting on Saturday after that game.
- [103:46]
Ryan Rosillo
We are. It was bad, you know, Right.
- [103:48]
Bill Simmons
It was a. It was a bad loss. And you start going, okay, this.
- [103:51]
Ryan Rosillo
But it sucks.
- [103:52]
Bill Simmons
If you're giannis. He's been 30, 12 and six for seven straight years, and he's never been in a weaker situation with this roster, you know, it is what it is.
- [104:04]
Ryan Rosillo
I'd like to submit, like, a weekly Nico Harrison Award based on the quote that you're like, what?
- [104:10]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [104:11]
Ryan Rosillo
And I'd submit body. Bobby Portis had some pregame availability with Katie George, who did the sideline for this game for espn. And she was saying, bobby, you know, he's been around here a long time. And he said that this Bucs team is the best version of any of the teams that he's been on. And I expected, like, except for the team. Yeah. And no, no, no, no, Bill, not so fast. He said even that team.
- [104:39]
Bill Simmons
He did. And even that team for the team that won the title. Wow.
- [104:43]
Ryan Rosillo
The 22 team was better. The 22 team was really good. If Middleton had been healthy, who knows?
- [104:50]
Bill Simmons
Grant Williams, 60 threes, you know, Rushmore.
- [104:55]
Ryan Rosillo
Start talking about it. Not the movie. Best player. Giannis was fantastic. Nobody else did anything else around him. I think at one point he had like 36 of the 50.
- [105:04]
Bill Simmons
I mean, I never like the Kuzma trade at any point.
- [105:07]
Ryan Rosillo
20, 25, it's Tony Snell off the hook.
- [105:11]
Bill Simmons
You think Snell is replaced by Kuzma? Yeah, just the meme.
- [105:16]
Ryan Rosillo
22 minutes, 0 for 5, 0 boards, 0 assists, 0 points. You want to guess how many blocks and steals he had?
- [105:24]
Bill Simmons
None.
- [105:26]
Ryan Rosillo
0 and 0. 0 turnovers.
- [105:30]
Bill Simmons
Well, tomorrow we have Detroit, New York and Clippers Denver, which I think is a that. Clippers, Denver, that was a really hard game. Of all the games, I would have said it would be nice if those guys had one more day off. I probably would have picked that series, but somehow they're playing again, so we'll see with that. But those are two really good games tomorrow. I went from thinking Indiana would win in less than six to now wondering if this could potentially get ugly. Because if I'm Milwaukee, I need Dame to come back for the third game, and I also need him to be pretty good. And that just seems like I'm keeping my fingers crossed on both of those at that point. I continue to think Indiana is really good. Like I thought I put. I put some of my favorite playoff bets on Friday and I thought the Indiana. Indiana was 28 to 1 to win the East. I don't think they're going to win the east, but I thought those odds were pretty good because you'd have to take out Cleveland and they know they could play with Boston and just 28 to 1 is. Those are crazy, crazy odds. It's at least if you're going to take a crazy flyer on someone, not a bad one. I think Indiana is a good team and sometimes they're their own worst enemies, but they are definitely better than Milwaukee. And I don't think it's going to matter what Giannis does. So. So we try not to overreact to Game 1, but that game confirmed everything. I thought heading into the series that Indiana just has a better basketball team.
- [107:03]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. No breaking news there. I mean, you expect a little bit more out of Kuzma. Taurean Prince also had zero.
- [107:10]
Bill Simmons
Kuzma versus Porter, who had a worse weekend.
- [107:12]
Ryan Rosillo
I mean, it was just an absolute donut from Everybody other than AJ Green hitting a few threes and Kevin Porter Jr getting to the free throw line. It's. You know, Giannis owns. Any of the numbers that you would look at is like, hey, what has he done against Siakam? All right, he's done this. What has he done against Turner? Okay, he's. He's done this. And he owns these dudes, but, you know, he's. He's playing point guard now. I mean, you want to talk about a dude out there by himself, you know, this is. Some people were calling it the John Popper, the NBA. And I don't know if that's fair to the guys in Blues Traveler, but.
- [107:49]
Bill Simmons
You say it a good run. It's tough when a basketball player hits the point where you can give them the best possible stat line for the game and also say their team's still going to lose.
- [108:00]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, like, no chance.
- [108:02]
Bill Simmons
Like game two. Giannis 42, 27 assists. Do they win? And I'd be like, ah, probably not. That's where it gets tough.
- [108:11]
Ryan Rosillo
I know how you were talking about just all the. The nonsense, but we have to be because we're guilty of it, too. But we don't do it. But we're guilty of referencing it. And I know I am, and sometimes I try to stop myself from doing it, but I just. Sometimes you can't. Right. Because you just see so much of it. But just like there's a whole anti Curry camp, right? And they. They argue these points. There's a lot of anti Tatum people.
- [108:34]
Bill Simmons
And it's a weird one.
- [108:36]
Ryan Rosillo
It's. It's very strange. Like, today would be another example of, like, oh, once again, Tatum needs to be bailed out of, like, a bad playoff performance.
- [108:43]
Bill Simmons
I heard from a Laker fan today who mailed me as boxer, like, yo, your boy. Yeah, 14 rebounds.
- [108:50]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, you gave up 40 open threes last night, buddy. So all of that exists. So all of the Yanis stuff exists. But, you know, until I would see, like, whether it was you thinking you've heard something or a wind horse or shams, like, or somebody that really Mattered. That kind of, like, brought it out on a radar where it was justifiable. I know that it's being talked about, but a lot of stuff that's talked about, it's just like, okay, but who. Who are the people that are actually talking about this stuff? Even it's being discussed all of the time.
- [109:22]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [109:23]
Ryan Rosillo
And there was a really funny one, because I would put this in the category of, like, something that I've read, and I forget who wrote it, but I was reading a bunch of the playoff previews, and the person made the argument that was like, I like the Bucks in this series. If Dame doesn't come back, I'm like, God. And after this game, good zag. Right. After this game, I'm thinking, all right, well, whatever you think the low end of the Dame experience is, at least there's another score out there that also balances out the court. And it's some outlet that's better than.
- [109:58]
Bill Simmons
You know, safety net of Kyle Kuzma does the 000 across the board. So I went to Wrestlemania in and out yesterday.
- [110:08]
Ryan Rosillo
How'd that go? Do you drive car service?
- [110:10]
Bill Simmons
No, I was. I was able to. Somebody I knew was going in and out same day. Yeah, very nice. And at one point was sitting with Dana White, was like four seats down with his right hand guy. Very nice guy. And my son, big UFC fan and his buddy, kind of. My son has a way of doing this. All of a sudden, is in a conversation with the right hand guy and got some info on International Fight Week. And there's a fight coming in that week that my son, he'll. He'll make this face three times a year that we always make fun of. Where he's been making it since he was a little kid, where he's overwhelmed by something and he's kind of just deer, like legitimate deer in the headlights. And he found out one of the fights that made the deer in the headlights face. But I'm not going to say it because I don't want to betray the confidence, but let's just say my son is now demanding we go to International Fight Week.
- [111:11]
Ryan Rosillo
By the way, how does your son handle, I would say, over the years, the access of your friend group and, you know, some celebrity.
- [111:18]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [111:18]
Ryan Rosillo
You know, let's not pretend. How does he handle himself? Is he.
- [111:22]
Bill Simmons
He's great. Handshake, eye contact, kind of knows when to move in and out of the combo.
- [111:29]
Ryan Rosillo
Not annoying.
- [111:30]
Bill Simmons
No, not annoying. Low usage rate, huh? He'll space the floor if it's somebody he wants to Engage with. He'll do it. If it's something like there's a common interest thing, like a go bear switch. Yeah. Or he'll move back. Yeah, okay, that's good. But, yeah, we. It seems like we were there for the better WrestleMania day because I think today was a little bit worse. Although John Cena, I know you were focused on that. Another match.
- [111:59]
Ryan Rosillo
What's going on with title?
- [112:00]
Bill Simmons
Cena won the title again. Bad guy turn heel and won the title with some help from your guy. Travis Scott came in and helped him out. That's cool. But he came in surprise.
- [112:14]
Ryan Rosillo
I think he did a really good job of the shoes.
- [112:16]
Bill Simmons
My highlight, though, was behind. Behind, like in the. In the back room, underneath. Stephen Mel was there, who was starting heels, which. A show that I really like that was on Stars. And this guy, Chris Bower was also on heels. He played like the bad guy. But he's been in a bunch of movies. He was saka on the Wire and he's been in a bunch of movies. But he was Machine, an 8 millimeter movie that I love and Van Lathan loves. My friend Jeff Gall loves that. I'm not sure anyone else loves Nick Cage, so was really excited to meet him. And I opened with. I'm a huge fan of 8 millimeter. I love machine. I don't think he gets it much. Seemed. Seems genuinely surprised by it.
- [112:58]
Ryan Rosillo
So he's the main union guy, Sabaka.
- [113:01]
Bill Simmons
Oh, yeah. Frank Sabaca.
- [113:03]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah.
- [113:04]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, he was great.
- [113:06]
Ryan Rosillo
I thought Sabaka. I know the storyline. Season two, people don't really like it that much.
- [113:10]
Bill Simmons
Season two is good. People got to give season another chance. Plus, Pablo's in it. Like, there's great actors in that season. Pablo Schreiber, Den of Thieves.
- [113:20]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I like Sabaka. He's. He's totally, totally believable in that role. I thought he did a great job.
- [113:25]
Bill Simmons
He probably gets Sabaca the most, I would guess, from the interactions. I don't know if he got a lot of Machine. Machine was the killer in 8 millimeter.
- [113:35]
Ryan Rosillo
He.
- [113:36]
Bill Simmons
He was the killer in the snuff film. And he wore like a. Like a gimp leather mask. And there's a big fight scene at the end with him and Nick Cage. So. Yeah, good one.
- [113:45]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay. But is there anything. Is there any wrestling stuff that we need to know about, the world needs to know about?
- [113:53]
Bill Simmons
You know, I think Charlotte Flair is really great. I think she's the best woman's wrestler I've ever seen in person since China. No, just best in general, I don't think China. China's not a lot of conversations. I think China's. China's a little more like. I don't know, like, she had a brief. Brief apex.
- [114:13]
Ryan Rosillo
Who's the Irish one? Becky.
- [114:15]
Bill Simmons
Becky Lynch. She married Seth Rollins. She had a. She was the biggest star in the company for about a year, and then she married Seth Rollins, and they had a. They had a kid. So I thought she kind of phased back a little bit.
- [114:28]
Ryan Rosillo
I found her Sports center ad annoying.
- [114:32]
Bill Simmons
So did you notice in the Masters, they were rerunning some of the old Sports center ads? I forgot how great those were. Like, they were rerunning the Tiger woods ad, a couple of them.
- [114:43]
Ryan Rosillo
And I love those ads.
- [114:45]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, I love them, too. Was that nostalgic for him?
- [114:47]
Ryan Rosillo
I remember, I think when they first started the whole this is Sports center campaign, it was some. It was some ad agency in Portland, Oregon, I think. And I wrote them a letter. I was like, oh, you know, I like sports. I mean, you know, this is just me doing my Douglas Copeland shampoo planet writing letter phase of my life.
- [115:05]
Bill Simmons
But Wide and Kennedy. That's a denim. Right? They're in Portland.
- [115:10]
Ryan Rosillo
You would know better than I would. Yeah.
- [115:11]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, that's what it was.
- [115:12]
Ryan Rosillo
It was just. They were so good. The funny thing was, is then once I started working there, they actually kind of, like, made sense, because you could be in a situation where you're like, why is so and so. And the salad bar line with me, or something like that. But then there was like a real. Like, that guy's in one or.
- [115:31]
Bill Simmons
I was gonna say the funniest thing about SportsCenter was the. The jockeying to be in the Sports center commercial. There were so many stories about that. People being mad that this person got in, and they weren't. This person's been in three. I haven't been in one yet. He's been in four. I've only been in one. It was fantastic.
- [115:51]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. And then they just kind of fell off. I mean, they had a really good run for a really long time. I think there was always a little animosity that Van Pelt was in so many of them, but he was just really good at it.
- [115:59]
Bill Simmons
It. Yeah, I liked him. And I saw Sinners on Friday, too, and I thought it was spectacular.
- [116:05]
Ryan Rosillo
I saw Warfare in the theater on Thursday. A couple moviegoers. It is so good. Okay. It is that good. I love it for a bunch of different reasons, but I love that a studio let a couple guys make a movie on an experience that they knew firsthand. And they were like, here's the script. It's going to be just one location for like 90 minutes going through this one thing and it's going to be really graphic. It's going to be very stressful. It's going to cause anxiety and it's going to have all these different moments, but it's going to be like the most realistic approach to a war scene you can possibly have. There's no girlfriend. There's no does this kid betray someone? And there's a forbidden connection. Based on cultures. It's like, nope, these guys are in this room and they're. And they got to get them out of there and we'll see what happens. And we're going to stay in this room with him for 90 minutes and seeing it. Yeah, the, the number of moments were like, it was just the sound and you know, it wasn't like a super complicated dynamic. There's not some like momento like, oh my God, this is. I can't believe Christopher Nolan did this. I just love that they let them do that now. Sinners. Everybody's raving about that. Give us the quick pitch sell.
- [117:23]
Bill Simmons
I just think Coogler is on the short, short, short, short list of the best directors. It's so original. I went into it knowing nothing. I intentionally read nothing. I didn't want to know anything. I just knew vampires are involved and Michael B. Jordan was it. I knew nothing else. And it's just so original and so cool and it shifts a couple times and it has a couple surprises in there. I thought it was the best Jordan performance ever. He's playing. I don't want to say. I don't want to spoil it.
- [117:55]
Ryan Rosillo
Better than the Jazz finals.
- [117:58]
Bill Simmons
Michael B. Jordan, his best performance ever. I was just blown away. I thought it was great. I'm going to see it again. It's a very short list of.
- [118:09]
Ryan Rosillo
Wait, you're going twice?
- [118:10]
Bill Simmons
I'm going to go again. Yeah. It's very short list of movies I've seen twice in like two weeks in the theater because I think it's a theater movie. You'll have still have fun watching it in, you know, in your house or your apartment, wherever you are out there. But I think it's a crucial theater movie and I just thought it was really cool and I'm so glad I felt the same way. I remember walking at a Once upon a time in Hollywood. Same way. You're just like, man, that was just so original and so cool and so well casted and there Was. Everybody was so good, and I just had a great time. So, anyway, I loved it, and it seems like it's doing well, which is nice. So movies not dead yet?
- [118:50]
Ryan Rosillo
No. Go to the theater, kids.
- [118:52]
Bill Simmons
And you're still in the office.
- [118:55]
Ryan Rosillo
What are you talking about?
- [118:56]
Bill Simmons
Right. You're still not the office. The studio.
- [119:00]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. There's a couple episodes. One episode, I dipped a little.
- [119:06]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. It's a little erratic.
- [119:08]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. But it's really well done. So. Yeah, I've enjoyed that part of it.
- [119:14]
Bill Simmons
I like your Friends and Neighbors, too. I've enjoyed that. Enjoyed 1923. I thought it was another strong season. I really like the Sheridan universe. I have not watched Mobland yet, by the way. Decent things.
- [119:29]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I'm just about to start that one. May even do it tonight as I wind down for the adrenaline rush of this podcast. But this YouTube live, Warfare, I think I forgot I was live, like, 45 minutes ago. Warfare. Cosmo Jarvis, the lead in Shogun. When's the ipo and what is the limit? Because I think Cosmo Jarvis might be next. Speaking of ESPN Magazine covers, Cosmo Jarvis. Yeah.
- [120:00]
Bill Simmons
Make the case.
- [120:05]
Ryan Rosillo
You know, Shogun, I wasn't 100. Sure. Like, he was great. I love Shogun. It was awesome. I was surprised even how much I loved it. Maybe I shouldn't have been, you know, history guy, ninjas, you know, pretty much that's everything I need. But he wasn't, like, just badass throughout that. He was playful, he was funny. But then he was dealing with, like, the romance part of it, so he had to, like, do a bunch of different things. Because I think if he was just the Punisher for 10 episodes, that lack of depth and storyline maybe gets a little bit old. He, for whatever reason, just in this, he's. He's mastering the I don't have to do that much and owns the scene. Yeah.
- [120:49]
Bill Simmons
So are you excited for the Damon Affleck movie, Rip?
- [120:53]
Ryan Rosillo
Which one is it?
- [120:54]
Bill Simmons
It's called rip.
- [120:55]
Ryan Rosillo
I think it's Rip Torn.
- [120:57]
Bill Simmons
It's a heist movie.
- [120:59]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, of course.
- [120:59]
Bill Simmons
I am coming out in the fall.
- [121:02]
Ryan Rosillo
Where does it take place then?
- [121:03]
Bill Simmons
Account 2 at Bernthal. A lot of good stuff coming out. All right, so we're gonna wrap up. You have two more podcasts this week. Tuesday, Thursday. What's the number one thing you're most excited about for the playoffs this week?
- [121:20]
Ryan Rosillo
Oh, it's Clippers. It's Clippers game, too. I can't. I can't wait.
- [121:26]
Bill Simmons
Me too. You know what's sad?
- [121:28]
Ryan Rosillo
We were far too aligned tonight. By the way. God.
- [121:31]
Bill Simmons
Nah, that happens sometimes. You know what's sad, though? The magic weren't quite good enough today to pull Seruti for like four minutes. That was like the bar. It's like, can the magic be good enough that it's like, hey, there's something to pull ser. And it just wasn't there. And I think deep down he knows it too.
- [121:47]
Ryan Rosillo
Anybody that's watched them, you know, post Suggs, I think the only thing that you do is you go, hey, you have a real chance, you know, years moving forward. Because Apollo, that's, that's what today was. It was a, it was a reminder to Magic fans that already know that. And it's, I think, a necessary reminder because I'm sure PA wasn't exactly a guy a ton of people were watching on league pass because some, some cap.
- [122:12]
Bill Simmons
Space, potentially some, some moves.
- [122:15]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't know. Franz is starting to feel like a recalibration nominee.
- [122:20]
Bill Simmons
Oh, no.
- [122:21]
Ryan Rosillo
Adjusted ceilings.
- [122:25]
Bill Simmons
Man. He was so good for that. Three weeks before he got hurt for the oblique. For the oblique virus caught him.
- [122:31]
Ryan Rosillo
If we let Ceruti in right now, he would just start to say, oh, we can't.
- [122:35]
Bill Simmons
It'll be another 10 minutes. We gotta wrap up. We gotta wrap up. The shot hitch is terrifying.
- [122:40]
Ryan Rosillo
It's terrifying.
- [122:41]
Bill Simmons
It is, yeah. November.
- [122:44]
Ryan Rosillo
Suri tells the truth. Man.
- [122:47]
Bill Simmons
How fired up are you for the draft? On a scale, 1 in 10.
- [122:52]
Ryan Rosillo
NFL Draft. Yeah, I'm always pretty excited, but I'm getting selfish as I get a little bit older. That's just a lot of stuff going on.
- [123:02]
Bill Simmons
I'm an eight. In fact, I'm not going to Clippers game three. Gave away my ticket already.
- [123:09]
Ryan Rosillo
I would rather watch Denver Clippers than watch, like, with the draft.
- [123:13]
Bill Simmons
The Pats have the fourth pick. I'm not, I, I just not. I can't juggle it. Plus, they might trade back up until I, I'm not missing it. It's too important.
- [123:23]
Ryan Rosillo
Are you thrilled that Belichick doesn't have the pick just so he could not use it? And then he's like, we got a 28. From who? Cleveland.
- [123:33]
Bill Simmons
I, I, I'm kind of shocked how embedded I've been in the mock draft stuff. I Even cold called McShay on Friday. We finally crossed that line. I just called him on a Friday.
- [123:42]
Ryan Rosillo
You just called him?
- [123:43]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, just called him. I want to talk about the Giants at three. I just was like, it, I'm calling. McShay called me 7:30 Friday night.
- [123:55]
Ryan Rosillo
He's like, there's something in My contract. He's like, the number, length, hour shows. He's like, all this makes sense. He's like, there's something. He said that bill gets seven emergency phone calls per 12 months.
- [124:06]
Bill Simmons
Call me on a Friday night out of nowhere. Yeah, I just had some. I had some thoughts. He is good intel, fun person to talk to him. Glad you brought him into my life. He's here in LA this week. We'll be doing stuff with him here.
- [124:17]
Ryan Rosillo
Doing drafts, flew here.
- [124:19]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, he has a lot.
- [124:21]
Ryan Rosillo
The. The number of it gets different again. He's not the reporter or whatever, but he talks to everyone. So those phone calls with him are far more valuable than I think even he can provide all.
- [124:34]
Bill Simmons
I think he's been. I know I'm biased, but I think he's been absolutely lights out with the draft this year. I've loved the newsletter, I've loved the podcast. The intel's good. I trust his mock draft stuff. I like our ringer draft guys too. Like, I just feel like, as you know, I don't watch a ton of college football and I'm diving into this and trying to grab all these opinions and get a feel for the tears of the draft, all that stuff, but it's pretty interesting. Draft. This, this Genti could go to the right team and it sounds like he could just be incredible right away or he could be trapped behind some shit offensive line, but it really does. It is fun when these running backs can come in right away and be like one of the four or five best guys in the league coming out of the gate out of nowhere. There's, you know, my thing with the Pats, and I'll probably say this five more times in the pod this week, but, like, if you have the fourth pick, I feel like you have to get a blue chipper. You just have to. It's too high of a pick. You can't be like, we like this left tackle. He has a chance to be the 17th best left tackle of the league. Like, I need to get somebody who's like an impact dude and we'll see what happens. Need the Giants to make a mistake, basically. Anyway, you'll be covering this on Tuesday, on. On Thursday as well. I'm sure I will be talking about as well, at least on Tuesday. Priscilla. Great.
- [125:51]
Ryan Rosillo
We're going Friday. Yeah, we're going to do Friday.
- [125:54]
Bill Simmons
Oh, after round one. Okay.
- [125:55]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah.
- [125:55]
Bill Simmons
Good to see you on this YouTube live. Thanks to Ceru and Gaha as well. Thanks to everybody who watched and threw some stuff in the chat. I kept going in there to try to grab some stuff, but it was like scrolling fast. It was hard to follow. But we will see you in a couple days. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Chris Sutton, thanks to Gahal, thanks to Ceruti. And don't forget new Rewatch what's coming on Monday night. We did Minority Report. Don't forget Zach Lowe's first playoff podcast. He's gonna be taping on Monday morning with Howard Beck. So be a nice little bookend to this one. And we also have the group chat guys on Ringer NBA. They're going on Sunday morning, so we try to stagger this so we'll have something going every little bit so pods aren't overlapping. And then we have Ringer NBA show. We have Logan and Raja. We have that going as well. We have the mismatch with Jacoby and Verno. We have Ringer gambling show. We have stuff covered all different ways. JJ on New York New York, Brian Barrett on Off the Pike. So we're here. NBA playoffs favorite time of the year. NFL draft coming as well. McShay show, Ringer NFL draft show. McShay is in LA. Bunch of great stuff. So great week for us. Hope you enjoy all the content. I will see you in this podcast on Tuesday. Must be 21 plus in President select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18/plus in President D.C. gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-887-897777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-550-24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text hopeny in New York.