← The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Bill Simmons Podcast
NBA Power Rankings and “Do You Believe?” With Kirk Goldsberry, Plus an Eagles/Steelers Fan Base Report With Chris Ryan and Craig Horlbeck
02:34:43
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- [00:00]
A
This episode is brought to you by Greenland 2 migration. If you loved this disaster hit film in 2020, well, the end of the world was only the beginning. Gerard Butler and Mirena Baccarin are back for the sequel. Five years after a comet strike devastated most of the Earth, the Garrity family is leaving the safety of their bunker in Greenland in search of a new home. There's a chance of a safe zone, a place with breathable air and drinkable water. It's in southern France, but the question is, how will they get there? Will they risk their lives to do so? Disaster movies, we really started to figure them out in the 70s. We had airport, all those versions of that. We had Towering Inferno, just kept going and going. Then we had the parodies of the disaster movies. And then the disaster movies really came back in the 90s with a whole bunch of them. Like Armageddon, Independence Day. They always work. We like watching things blow up. We like watching cities crumble, even though we know they're not actually crumbling, but they're crumbling. We like crazy storms. We like suspension tension. And we like to believe in our main hero, a disaster film. And my God, Gerard freaking Butler. What else do you need? Greenland 2 Migration in theaters January 9th. Rated PG13. The Bill Simmons Podcast brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network where I put up a new rewatchables on Monday night. We did a mailbag. We started in 2025 with the mailbag. We started 2026 with the mailbag. Got some great questions from a lot of listeners, came up with a couple new categories, argued about movies, talked about Heat a few times. Heat kept coming up. Turns out people like asking us about Heat. I don't know why. Apparently it's a good movie. I've only seen it once or 50 times. Anyway, check that out. We will be coming back with a brand new movie next week. We are doing what Lies Beneath, which you can find on Netflix where the Rewatchables is going to be officially moving at the end of the month from a video standpoint, but also still available on Spotify on all platforms and available on video on Spotify as well. Don't forget that part. But what Lies Beneath next week? Watch that Netflix. Listen to our podcast on Monday. I also somehow this has never happened. I've done Rewatchables live, but I've never done a live podcast in Los Angeles. So I've done live rewatchables but not a live Bill Simmons podcast that all changes on when is the day? February 11th and tickets will go on sale on Friday, January 9th. Theringer.com events I have no idea who's going to be with me. I know it'll be fun so you can go check that one out. Coming up on this podcast, Kurt Goldsberry and I are going to do an NBA power poll. Go 30 to 1, figure out where Michael Porter Jr. Should go. Does anyone want Trae Young? What's going on with okc? Do we believe in Phoenix and the Celtics? Whole bunch of questions. And then after that, Chris Bryant and Craig Horlbeck. They stuck around after we taped the rewatchables yesterday and we talked a bunch of NFL stuff. Craig's team, the Steelers, CR's team, the Eagles, my team, the Patriots. What do we believe? Why don't we have playoff fantasy? Whole bunch of things going on. So very fun podcast. Hope you enjoy it. We're going to take a break and then Pearl Jam. The Bill Simmons Podcast is presented by fanduel. Fanduel's got it all. Same game parlays, quick bets for jumping in live. They have your way. Go check out your way. You can build the bet that fits your play your way. Plus, don't miss out on the NFL playoffs. One of my favorite times of the year all month long. Download the FanDuel app or head to FanDuel.com BS to get started. Get ready for the playoffs. Let's go. Must be 21 +president, select states 18 + in DC, Kentucky and Wyoming. Gamble. Call win 800 gambler, visit rg-help.com, call 888-78-9777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut. All right, Kurt Goldsberry is here. He is going to do a little power poll with me. We're gonna go from 30 to 1. We feel like we can hit a bunch of fun storylines. What's your favorite storyline of the season so far? We're like 36 games in. So what are we at the 41% mark? 142% mark. What's your favorite story?
- [04:46]
B
Well, I'm biased, I have to say. My San Antonio spurs surprisingly ahead of schedule. Bill. I love the guards, though. I thought this was gonna be a Wemby team. I was talking to somebody today. Even without Wemby, the Spurs have one of the best young cores in the league and that's been my favorite story. I love to watch them more than anything. I just love that team.
- [05:05]
A
Yeah, I agree with you on that. It's funny we were always surprised when somebody is ahead of schedule. But ahead of schedule happens over and over again in the history of the NBA. Yeah, you've been good about that. Just happened with okc. Yeah, it's always like you're always better betting on a year and a half, two years ahead versus an older team like the Clippers this year or something are the ones that are the dangerous ones.
- [05:27]
B
One of my students told me one time is like, athletes are most famous in their lives, past their primes. And so I think we overrate these older guys as we get to know them. But yeah, it's a young man's game.
- [05:37]
A
Like I always say, except for Steph Curry and Kevin Durant, who are somehow both 37 years old and still cranking it. All right, power poll. We're going 30 to 1 and we're gonna be able to hit a bunch of stuff. So I sent you my list. This is not both of our list. I just sent you. This is my power poll. We're going through it. First group, the dregs. Indiana is now 6 and 30 with no signs of life. And I think they basically have locked down. They are going to be the worst team in the league. I think they're fine with it. They'll start shelving guys, scratching guys. And what that does is that locks down a top four pick, which is important because we have Peterson and Boozer and Debance and then I think Caleb Wilson. Even if you get four and you end up with Caleb Wilson, it's like, fine, that guy might be a multiple time all NBA guy. So I think this is one of the weirdest situations in the history of the league where you have a team that was on the cusp of winning a championship and becoming the ultimate sports movie story. And then in the blink of an eye, it's over. Their best player's gone for a year and now they have a chance to get basically a franchise guy for the next 15 years and be back running in a year. I don't remember anything like that before.
- [06:48]
B
No, the, the, the best comp I have is a very different situation. But it's the Bulls post Jordan, when Tim Floyd came in and it was just. They went from very, very apex of the league to the bottom. But yeah, they're 6 and 30. I heard Zach Lowe saying yesterday, I didn't think they'd be this bad. I agree with that. They still have so many good players. They have a good coach. Six and thirty though, Bill, that's, that's surprising. They're taking the opposite approach as your team. Um, they're obviously just going to. To get a draft pick and come back at full strength next year. I. I like that as an executive, and I think there'll be a force to be reckoned with next year. This is just a gap year.
- [07:25]
A
I don't think they had a choice because the way it worked out, where they just had injuries coming out of the gate even before the season started, and they. They were just behind the eight ball. And they also don't have anybody as good as Jaylen Brown on the pacers. I mean, 100%, if you have a top six, top seven guy, which is the way Jalen's been playing, it's a lot easier to win games. All right, so they're 30. Sacramento, I have a 29. They're 8 and 28. They're last in net rating now 11.5. I don't remember if I've talked about them on a pod. We killed them before the season when House and Zach and I did the over under pod and Zach and Zach got as gamey as he's ever gotten. I think just completely eviscerating a team. I don't understand anything this team is doing. Like, the Westbrook thing to me is the goofiest subplot of the season where you have. You're paying Malik Monk 18 million a year. You're burying him. He's playing either zero minutes a game, six minutes a game. You went and got Schroeder over the summer to be your point guard. You gave up on him basically when the season started. And then you get Russ as an expiring. It's not like he's helping them win. Win games. They're. They're terrible. All they should be doing is trying to build up the trade value of Schroeder, Monk, some of their other dudes. I don't know what they're doing, Kirk.
- [08:38]
B
It is especially sad, Bill, when you look at it in the context I was at the NBA cup final and watching the Knicks and the spurs, and you're seeing Harrison Barnes and Mike Brown out there. You're seeing, you know, Deer and Fox out there. Yeah, we just talked about Halliburton. It's especially sad when you think about where they were just a few years ago and how they're like, back to being the Kings.
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A
Yeah. Well, you also have Sabonis trade now looming, but you gave him this pretty pricey extension in a league where everybody's a trade afraid to trade for a contract that's 35 million and up. So I think it's gonna be a little harder to get rid of him than maybe they think. They do have a good rookie center that I think could take some of his spots, but this is. I. I just can't believe. This is probably the worst shape they've been in. I don't know. I think it is, though. They have. Who is their best asset? Sabonis.
- [09:33]
B
Murray. Murray or. Yeah, Murray or Sabonis.
- [09:35]
A
Is. Is Murray even. Is, like, on a Final four team? Is he even starting?
- [09:41]
B
No, he's not starting, that's for sure.
- [09:43]
A
But it's like a ninth, man.
- [09:44]
B
Would it.
- [09:45]
A
How many minutes would he play for the Celtics? Would he play over Sam Houser? I don't even know.
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B
No, I would just push back because they have such an illustrious history at being at the bottom of this league. Like, they. They've been in some bad eras, but.
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A
Well, I'm talking about the Vivek era, but, yeah, they. They had Fox and they had Bagley back to back. They were five and two in those drafts, and it was, you know, not awesome back then either. But I think this is worse, though, because they're actually paying a real roster. They're in one of the aprons. They. They turn Fox into. I don't even really know what they got. And Fox, by the way, everybody's watching him this year in the spurs going, oh, Fox is good. It's like, yeah, Fox is.
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B
Yeah, he's been good.
- [10:27]
A
Fox was good. He was in the all NBA conversation for a couple years. All right, so they're 29, Washington's 28. They're 9 and 25. Normally, I wouldn't want to talk about them. It's just a weird team where they just got a bunch of assets they liked. Didn't really know what they were doing with them, but they don't really care. Threw some people together, they have some bets. And then our buddy Mark Stein starts the ball rolling on a Trae Young conversation with them, which they have McCollum's expiring contract and Chris Middleton's expiring contract. I actually tried to figure out what the trade would be, and I had some trouble, even as the Picasso of the trade machine, trying to figure out how the contracts go back and forth because it's like 63 million for McCollum and Middleton. Trey's making 45. So there's other. So I'm sure there's a way to work it out. Do you like the idea of Washington buying low on Trae Young for this year and probably next year, because I don't see him opting out of his deal.
- [11:24]
B
I do. I actually think there's some bright spots in Washington with George and Saar. If they can keep those guys and get Trey Young, I mean, what else do they have to look forward to? They have a terrible net rating. They have trouble selling tickets. I think you gotta. You gotta look at them as one of the more attractive potential suitors for Trey Young. So I actually like it. I know that our friend Joe House texted us last night and said, please don't pour any gas on that fire. I'm sorry, House. I think it actually kind of makes sense.
- [11:56]
A
I told House, House went on the Ringer gambling show yesterday and picked the Chargers. Not just plus three and a half in New England, but he picked them. Moneyline said they were going to go into New England and win. And three hours later, Trey Young to the Wizards emerged. And I was like, this is how God works, House. How dare you go against your buddy of 37 years and take the Chargers now you have to watch Trey Young. It's weird because on the one hand, he's a distressed asset. You know, it's like getting a distressed asset. On the other hand, I'm not sure he's an asset because this league is so good. Everybody's so good offensively now. We have teams, multiple teams in the 120s. So it's not like being a good offensive player is as much of his advantage as it used to be. It's a league where Denny Abdia is averaging 25, 7 and 7, you know, so when you throw in his defensive deficiencies and the fact that nobody seems to like playing with him, I don't really know what you're getting. But if I'm Washington and I have this goofy team of basically shooting guards that bring the ball up and maybe.
- [12:59]
B
Yeah, well, I think you're exactly right. The market for the NBA is so much smarter now than it was when we used to love players like Trae Young. You look at these stats, you look at his offensive numbers, but we're so much smarter at evaluating defense. And the market for anybody who is so sort of negative on that end of the court is just. It's just more efficient now. Right. And I think that's a big part of it. But I think the play is you get him now, and then maybe you get him at a lower number and keep him happy in Washington. I certainly wouldn't want them to get him and then extend him at the max that that would Be a bad move for Joe House's Washington Wizards if they did that.
- [13:41]
A
That's almost like you have to divorce your team. I don't even know if Vivek run a run. A DVE would do that. By the way, the King said they're out, they're not interested. When the Kings aren't interested, that's usually a bad sign. I. I don't mind it buying low for them and seeing what's there. We've seen him succeed in the playoffs. I was thinking about, there are guys in history, and this isn't just in basketball, but it's for football, too, that have dined off some result, that if you go back and you study the result, maybe the result was a little more dubious and you're dining on that, but maybe it shouldn't happen. And Trey, you'd be like, well, he made the Eastern Conference finals. He led the Hawks. It's like, well, that is true. Let's go back and look. Let's see what the league was that year. The conference was weak. And in the second round, they had this once in a decade event of Ben Simmons, his career ending during a playoff series. Like, he literally lost his confidence in real time. And the team cratered. And the Hawks, if you go back and you look at all those games, there were crazy comebacks and, you know, the Sixers just fall apart. And if that doesn't happen and Philly just wins that series we're not having, there's. There's no case for Trey Young.
- [14:55]
B
Yeah, that's a fair point. I also think it's worth bringing up that the man who drafted Trey Young in Atlanta and postured them to get in the position to get Trey Young in the first place, Travis Schlank is now one of the leaders of the front office in Washington.
- [15:09]
A
Oh, a Travis redemption.
- [15:10]
B
Travis Schlank. And we've seen that in every sport like these guys. Once you, once you build a relationship like that, you'll see them bring them home. So I think, I think the shoe fits Bill Simmons.
- [15:22]
A
Okay, well, I like for Atlanta. I still have not given up Atlanta. They'll be coming up later in the power poll. But I like flipping Trey into cj. If you don't really have to give up anything else other than contracts going back and forth, I don't mind that because I actually think they kind of need somebody like CJ on the team. The problem with Trey and CJ's not a good defender either. But maybe it's just the kind of, kind of mix that they need New Orleans 27. They were looking frisky and now they've lost seven straight and yet they don't have their pick. We've talked about that a million times. Brooklyn, 26. They're 11 and 22. I went under on them as one of my locks in the over under pot. I think their over under was like 19.
- [16:04]
B
Yeah.
- [16:04]
A
And I didn't think they wanted to be good. And I still don't think they want to be good. But Michael Porter Jr. Has kind of flipped this and ruined it and has had this unbelievable breakout season where. This is where I talked about last week with Mahoney about, do they need like the breakthrough player award to add to most improved? You can't really necessarily give Michael Porter most improved. Cause he's just getting way more shots. And I've always had that theory about good stats, bad teams. How many guys talked about this many times in the pot? How many guys in the league could score 20 points if they just want a bad team? How many guys could score 25. Maybe that's a little of that. On the other hand, I've watched him go toe to toe with excellent players and carry his team against better teams. He did it to the Celtics. He killed the Celtics in Boston. And I do wonder, could he save a couple seasons here or elevate a couple teams? But more importantly, Kirk, if you're in Brooklyn, you have to trade him. Like this week you're passing the point of, like, you're not going to be able to get in the top four if you don't get rid of him. Now, if that's your goal. It might not be your goal, but if they want to be a bottom four team, they have to trade him this week. He's making the team too good.
- [17:16]
B
Yeah, they need more of those Cam Thomas shots and fewer of these MPJ shots. Yeah, MPJ is like one of the more talented, pure shooters in the NBA. He works out a lot with Stephen Curry and his trainer, Brandon Payne. I remember Brandon told me one time, like, you wouldn't believe the number of times that MBJ beats Stephen Curry in shooting drills and shooting games. He is super talented. And you know, he had the back issue coming out of college, which. Which dropped him in the stock, but this guy has been one of the most talented players in basketball in a long time. I like him. I agree with you. My only note on Brooklyn, like, the way they're playing, I would swap them out of this dregs category you gave me and put them above Utah. I Like, so you'd put them in.
- [18:00]
A
The next category called the Young and the Frisky. I just assume they're going to trade in Porter. I wanted to keep them in the dregs because I thought they were just going to trade Porter. But if you're. You're right. If they don't, they're in the Young and the Frisky.
- [18:11]
B
Yeah. Yeah. I think they're. I like them. And they're. They're shown flashes of being a very good defense through stretches of the season. That young group coming together, they have the. The chance, Bill, and I'm not sure this is the route they're going to take, but they have the chance to get better as the season goes on.
- [18:26]
A
I think there's more good coaches right now than we've ever had. And you know, the Nets coach is a good example.
- [18:33]
B
The.
- [18:34]
A
The Suns coach.
- [18:35]
B
Right.
- [18:35]
A
Jordan, who I think him and Missoula are. Are in the running for coach of the year. But it just seems like there's more smart people running teams versus the old days where it was like some ex player who'd already coached three other teams. We had a lot of those guys. We don't have as many of those guys. Apologies to Doug Christie.
- [18:53]
B
No, I agree with you. And one crossover NFL take. I think one of the reasons, like the Jacksonville coach or the Bears coach we saw in that sport this year just how important coaching can be for a team specialist too.
- [19:04]
A
People who are really good at one side of their offense or defense.
- [19:08]
B
Yeah, I agree. I had that in my notes, actually. Will Hardy's another great coach in a struggling environment, but yeah, there's so many good young coaches right now.
- [19:16]
A
Yeah, well, he could save Golden State season. I want to hold that thought when we get to Golden State. The trade, that's the easiest trade. I actually asked Bobby Marks, I texted him today about. I was trying to understand these poison pill guys and I guess one hasn't been traded since 1785, but it's the hardest it's ever been to make trades. And yet the easy trade and the trade that makes sense for both sides is Porter going to Detroit. And that's the one that's sitting there. Harris isn't expiring. They have Ron Holland, which is a tough asset to give up, but you got to give up something to get something. They have picks and I watched Detroit and so much relies on Cade in the last five minutes of every game that I think as good as they've been and they definitely have an identity. You have to have A second guy who can create a shot. And if you don't do that, then you're basically banking on maybe Ivey can become that guy. But that trade just makes a lot of sense. Then Brooklyn just buys out Harris. He goes and signs with a contender. You've held off the fort of not being one of the five worst teams and you could just play all your young guys and try to lose. That's what I would do.
- [20:31]
B
Yeah. Detroit has a defense that is their identity, their physical, but they lack that. The Malik Beasley shooting numbers that were so great last year haven't been replaced. They, they have Duncan Robinson. They would slide MPJ in that role.
- [20:45]
A
I think they're the Harris and yeah, whatever that forward role is, they'd lose on defense with him because he's, you know, not a good defensive player. Somebody that people target when he's out there on a good team.
- [20:55]
B
But yeah, they're overloaded on defense and underloaded on shooting. So from that perspective, it makes sense. I wonder if they're a little reticent because of Harris's off court impacts. Just as a leader, as the grownup in the room. And I don't know if they want to mess with it. This is a team that's getting better. That'd be the pushback. They feel like they have the best record in the east right now. I know Zach thinks they might make a trade. Obviously they have to look at it. I wouldn't be surprised to see them just, this is our team. We're going to try to win the Eastern Conference with this group.
- [21:27]
A
I think that's. I actually think that's probably the right move because whatever happens, they're not winning the title this year. And Zach and I talked about, when we talked about them a month ago, as a trade team, you go under the premise of what would Sam Presti do? He definitely wouldn't do anything this year. He'd wait and probably wait until the summer to really make a move on somebody. But Porter's playing so well and the east is so wide open. I guess your question is, could we make the finals if we did this trade and is that a good enough goal for you? And when you think that team was so bad a couple years ago and you know how starved Detroit is for a good team again, he'd be like, we might actually make the finals if we do this. I think you're having meetings about it. Next group, the young and the frisky. Utah 25, 12 and 23. It's interesting if they had had Kessler if he hadn't gotten hurt so early in the season. I do wonder what this team looks like because some of their other assets have come through the. Keante. Keante George is my number one. I have no idea what to make of this guy as an asset because he's averaging 24 a game. It's hard for me to imagine him being one of the two best guys on a really good team. But then. And you watch him at the end of games, and he just seems like he can get anywhere on the floor he wants to get to, which I think is the number one thing you'd want as a guard in the last five minutes of a game. They have marketing.
- [22:53]
B
Yeah, Ace.
- [22:54]
A
There's good stuff happening here.
- [22:56]
B
Yeah. I hope for my friend Will Hardy that this is the last year he has to go through this because there is good stuff happening. They have talent. It's a proud franchise. And I hope Danny Ainge decides to start, you know, really pushing next year. This year. You know, I don't know why they would try to win much more than they are where they are right now in the Western Conference, but, man, this is a fan base that we know is sick of losing like this. They're. They're accustomed to being at the top of the Western Conference and they're just.
- [23:25]
A
Would you trade marketing or no?
- [23:28]
B
I would field offers, and I think that's what Danny's been doing. And I would be picky, but I would if the right offer presented itself. I think you look at the Western Conference right now, there's a lot of great players younger than Markkanen that are going to be around for a while looking that up.
- [23:44]
A
What is his age exactly? Oh, he's 28. So he turns 29 in May. That's where you have to think, like every decision you're making is, where are we in 2030, basically, Luis, 32 at that point.
- [23:57]
B
Shay.
- [23:58]
A
Right. Well, they're fun. Listen. And the same thing for this next team, 24, Charlotte, who's 13 and 23, like, just two good League Pass teams. These were teams that you did not want to watch ever for any circumstances. Charlotte last night put them on, wanted to see if they would go a little toe to toe with a seemingly struggling OKC team just because they've been 500 for two weeks and turned on the game and Charlotte was up 20. It's like, what's going. And they killed Charlotte. Like, literally killed them. It was probably the best Hornets game in five years.
- [24:30]
B
Yeah, it was the most stunning result of the year I would go so far as to be like, I cannot believe what I'm watching. I wanted to watch the Suns Rockets game, but I couldn't take my eyes off of what was happening in Oklahoma City and Con Knippel and Brandon Miller and LaMelo Ball just hitting three after three. And this defense frustrating the Thunder.
- [24:51]
A
Yeah. Yeah. They had. You know, when they have Miller and he's been kind of in and out, he's been banged up, but he seems healthy now. And him and Knipple together are just a really fun foundation. Like, I really feel like that's. I've talked about Charlotte too much, but I really feel like there's something there. What's interesting is lamelo. He played 25 minutes, 16 points, two rebounds. It wasn't like this was like the Lamelo show last night. It was really about their wings and OKC having a lot of issue with. With their flexibility. I can't wait to talk about OKC. Chicago 17 and 19. Watched them last night play the Celtics. Celtics killed him. Buzzelis I really like, and I think he's competitive, and I think there's something potentially special with him. I'm monitoring him.
- [25:38]
C
Yeah.
- [25:38]
B
What else do you watch?
- [25:39]
A
I watch something there.
- [25:40]
B
What else do you watch when you watch this team? It's dark times in Chicago. I watched the beginning of that game last night, too, when the Boston Celtics just. Just destroyed them on both ends of the court. It's just. It's so embarrassing on the interior with Chicago. Your guy Kada just bullying them around like they have no answers. I don't know what they're trying to do. It's. It's.
- [26:04]
A
It's.
- [26:04]
B
It's bleak.
- [26:05]
A
I think they were trying to have a really fun offensive team built around their guards, but the problem is they didn't trade Kobe White in time.
- [26:14]
B
Yeah.
- [26:14]
A
And now they. And now they're kind of stuck where they are. The can't quit yet list. Dallas, I probably have too high at number 22. They're 13 and 23. No net rating, minus 3.7. I can't give up on them yet, and I don't know why. And they're probably going to trade Davis in the next three weeks, I would guess if they can get any decent offer for him. But I don't feel like they're that far away when I watch them. I feel like they're in these games against these teams, and part of the problem is they're relying on somebody who just turned 19 to be this decisive playmaker at the end of the games. They can't figure out the point guard spot. Nemhardt's like, clearly a 9th, 10th man, but defensively, he really hurts someone who's out there. They can't figure out how to put in that spot. I don't know when Kyrie comes back. The plan is still available for them potentially, and you could talk yourself into a world with Kyrie coming back and then being a 10 seed and who knows? I just don't know if that makes sense.
- [27:16]
B
It doesn't. I mean, they own their own pick, Bill. They're sitting here at 13 and 23. I love Cooper Flag. I'm dropping another big piece on him this week on the ringer. I've been studying Dallas and, like, from a front office perspective, they own their own pick this year. They don't really, for the next few. This is a deep draft. They're sitting here at 13 and 23.
- [27:40]
A
They've already lost lively.
- [27:42]
B
You're looking down I35 at San Antonio. You're looking at Houston. You're looking at okc. Oh, my God. You have a. And this is what I wrote in that piece. It's a draft right now. I said, like, there's two kinds of bad teams in the league. There's a kind of team that doesn't have a direction like Chicago, and then there's a team like Dallas that's blessed with, you know, Cooper Flag and Derek Lively, and that at least gives you a path forward. And I say the clear move here is to go to the bottom for Dallas, however they get there, and go get another guy next to Cooper and Lively and start there and see what you can get for PJ See what you can get for Gafford, maybe see what you can get for AD Let Kyrie take his time coming back. I think that's such an obvious path forward, but I don't think this current Dallas leadership is thinking that way.
- [28:31]
A
Interesting, because they're a good trade machine team. They have multiple guys that other teams would want, like P.J. washington, reasonable contract. Right. He's around 15, 16. Anybody could go grab him and put him in a rotation and you would need him. Gafford's another one.
- [28:47]
B
Plug and play.
- [28:49]
A
I worry about the Lively piece and just him long term from a health standpoint, because I think that was one of the things people were worried about with him coming out of high school and college, and now he's hurt again. And then I'd also worry if I were them about Cooper Flag coming to the Celtics in four years. I Think that's a real threat, like tank, but don't tank too hard. His whole family's in Maine and their house is covered with Celtic stuff and his mom is probably the biggest female Celtics fan in New England, so I'd worry about them. Just a whiff.
- [29:23]
B
Yeah, it's interesting, but you know, just from a team building perspective, they. They have to look at it, man. Like, it's just the writing's on the wall. But what really interesting. And you'll love this too. They currently have co interim GMs. They have sort of Mark Cuban in a quasi involved role again, the current owner. It's just who. Who would make the decisions, Bill, for a team like this to be aggressive at the deadline one way or another.
- [29:48]
A
Emotionally scarred team, by the way, that probably doesn't ever want to make another decision.
- [29:52]
B
Yeah, that's not irrelevant. Like, they are going to be pretty gun shy about big trades. Right. Because they don't want to repeat the disaster that they just lived through in 2025 again in 2026.
- [30:10]
A
If I was a Mavericks fan, I'd probably have to see a therapist like twice a week to get through the last year. Even though it all ends up with Cooper Flagg. That is incredible to watch and is doing things at an age that is about as unusual as it gets. I just. The question for me with Davis, what is he worth actually, versus. Oh, it's Anthony Davis. He's worth this. It's like, is he. What is the. From a wear and tear standpoint, from the fact that the ringers. Rich Paul will probably want an extension for him.
- [30:47]
B
That's a big point.
- [30:48]
A
I just don't know what teams are actually giving up for him on top of the fact that it's impossible to make a trade for a $50 million guy anymore. So, you know, I just. What is that? What's that Carfax report looking for him. When you get it in, it's like, oh, 132,000 miles. I thought this was going to be like 88. Oh, I didn't realize they changed the engine.
- [31:12]
B
He's taught me more about abductor strains than I've cared to know in my life, you know?
- [31:16]
A
Right.
- [31:17]
B
I didn't know what that was. And then Anthony Davis. But yeah, he. If you tell me he's healthy, he helps every team. Like if the Celtics got him, he fills a lot of gaps. But with the CBA and the trade rules, I'm just. Yeah, we'll talk about their front court, I'm sure, in a minute. But it's hard to trade them in the regular season, period. It's harder to trade them when your front office has co interim GMs and your owners are still trying to figure out what's going on here. I just don't think they get it done. I could be wrong, but I just don't think they have the leadership in place to pull that off right now.
- [31:53]
A
We'll take a break and then we'll hit the next 21 teams. The Bill Simmons podcast brought to you by FanDuel Football Fans. We've waited all year and right now it's time to switch the mode to playoff mode on FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook. Right now, all FanDuel customers can get in on the action with a wildcard reward for NFL Wildcard Round or as I call it, round one. Just pick your card. You can win up to 100% profit boost. I'm not ready to do my picks yet. I am leaning pretty hard toward Jacksonville would be one I would throw in there, but head to FanDuel.com BS for a chance to double your winnings for the NFL Wildcard Round. Play your game with FanDuel. An official sports betting partner of the NFL playoffs must be 21 + President in select states or 18 + in President in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Opt in Required Rewards are non withdrawable. Restrictions apply including bonus and token expiration, leg requirements and max wager amount. See terms@supportsbook.fanduel.com, gAM problem, call 100 Gamble or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789777 or visit ccpg.org ChatInCut this episode is brought to you by Apple Watch. So how's that New Year's resolution looking? You gonna crush the gym? You're gonna inch into Quitters Day territory? What's your plan? Cause that's a real thing. The second Friday of January. It turns out most of us, we throw in the towel by then. But not this year. Not if you got an Apple Watch. Apple Watch keeps you locked in. You've got the daily movement and activity rings, achievement streaks, goal tracking. It's like having a coach on your wrist. So if you're on the edge of giving up, don't. This is the year we quit quitting. Let's do this Apple Watch made to motivate you. Find out more@apple.com AppleWatch Series 11 iPhone 11 or later required all right, the Can't Quit yet group continues with Memphis at 15 and 20. I don't have a lot to say here other than I was on the record as not loving the Jaren Jackson extension. Yeah, I still think when you're talking about paying that much money for somebody, I just need a little more. You know, ironically, I feel this way about Jimmy Butler and Golden State. Jimmy Butler, a player I like, but for $54 million a year, it's just too much money. In a league where you really can only afford to have one or two guys making that much on your team, I don't know what they do with Ja. Every once in a while I get a text from somebody being like, heard so and so is interested in Ja, like really. And then nothing happens.
- [34:29]
B
He looks great when he looks great. The Jaren Jackson thing though, that's the most interesting thing. You know, basketball isn't baseball. You can't just plug and play these guys into any team and, and kind of know what you're going to get. He looked great defensively when Stephen Adams was there, sort of collecting rebounds and clogging up the paint and that freed him up Team USA. When he, we tried to use him at the 5, it just wasn't good. He needs like a bigger, stronger, traditional five to really be the defensive impact that we've seen him be. And then there's also giant red flags on the other end of the court. Bill, he's arguably the worst finishing big man in the league right now. He does this thing where he tries to drive the ball almost like Giannis from the top and it just never works. He gets halfway there and then it just can't finish. So I'm with you. That is looking awkward. Maybe Zach Edie is the guy next to him and it all clicks in.
- [35:28]
A
But right, we can't keep him on the court. I mean, a point guard pick, right?
- [35:34]
B
They draft well. Yeah.
- [35:35]
A
And, and ironically need a point guard and have one, but have no idea what we're getting out of that guy going forward. And you know, if he's not going to be as reckless as he used to be, I don't know what's left if he can't, if he's not like a great shooter and the league is just way better, way more explosive. Everybody has a good guard.
- [35:53]
B
And like Trey Young. And like Trey Young, not to cut off the Portland segue, but like, like Trey Young, the league is just a little too woke these days for a one way offensive guard who's going to be just a weak link on the defensive end that smart teams will just attack over and over and over again. You have to be an exceptional offensive player if you're going to bring that little to the defensive end.
- [36:17]
A
We just have so much more talent that I don't even know. All you have to do is just go through bat. Like I was looking at the 06 Lakers and how Kobe, I think he finished fourth in MVP. I voted for him that year. And he averaged 35 a game. His best four teammates, which I had kind of forgotten. No Laker fan has forgotten this, but I forgot it. His best four teammates were Lamar Odom, who was good.
- [36:43]
B
Yeah, very good.
- [36:44]
A
Smush Parker, Kwame Brown and Luke Walton. That was his team. Like three of those guys would not be in rotations for three. Fourths of the teams we have now would not like play minutes at all. And you know, as the league evolved over the next 20 years and you could get away with it. Trae young in like 2017 when we didn't have a ton of scoring. Now we do. We have teams averaging 124 points.
- [37:13]
B
Yeah, it's a great point. And we also have these. These young buck coaches that we were describing earlier that. That know how to exploit every weak link that you put on the court on your defense. Like that's the other thing tactically. We know how to get Trey Young on an island and attack it. And I think that's the other thing that's happened.
- [37:34]
A
Well, that's the problem with Porter, right. Trying to win a title. And you get Porter, you're in the same position Denver was in where he's just going to be thrown into every screen and every pick and roll and he's going to be the guy they pick on. So his offense has to be awesome to offset that. Portland number 20, 17 and 20 somehow. Even though Scoot Henderson haven't seen him. Drew Holliday got hurt pretty early. Abdi is a 25. He's great 7 and 7 guy and really should get thrown into the all the terrible things that have happened to the Wizards this century list. I think giving up on that dude when he was that good. I want to mention because they beat the Celtics. It was the only game in the road trip the Celtics lost. And I watched it. I think Clingan's terrific, right. I really like him as a big guy. I liked him in the draft. I thought he went. I thought both him and Edie went maybe a couple spots too late because it's so where the league was going. I just like these big guys that could rebound and defend the rim. He killed the Celtics and it was the only mistake Missoula made on the whole road trip was he went small in the last three minutes and cling and killed them. Got a big offensive rebound and put back. But I think they really got something with him. I. I like their assets. I don't know what I do if I'm Portland. I might try to like kind of zag the other way maybe and like, like this is a team. Maybe this is a team that takes a flyer on one of these dudes that are available. Yeah, I mean lamello Trey Young type guys.
- [39:03]
B
I think Trey Young. Yeah. That they have to be looking at that they're 17 and 20. They're in the wrong place in the standings. The. You know the league punishes that record at the end of the year. If that's where you're going to be, here's your prize. You get nothing. And look, they've beaten OKC this year. They've beaten the spurs in San Antonio. Celtics. They beat the Celtics. They show glimpses. Thiago. I like Thiago as a head coach. I remember they had a. They had a crisis in the coaching staff. Unprecedented crisis.
- [39:33]
A
His house was on Redfin.
- [39:35]
B
Oh, really?
- [39:36]
A
This is the Billups is over. Yeah. There was an article about how he's selling his house. It's. It's this. This story is. Is grim. Like this. That close is not coming back.
- [39:44]
B
Move in there.
- [39:45]
A
Do you think I should talk to him about it? Yeah, maybe grab the Billups house. Probably a good poker room in there. I like where Portland's at. I'd be interested to see if they took a swing on somebody. Could also be an Anthony Davis team. By the way, they're in play for a bunch of stuff. From a contract standpoint, a little tough, but Clingan and Abdia, they have some good guys.
- [40:06]
B
Yeah, they have good guys.
- [40:07]
A
And Kamara, we didn't mention they have some guys I like number 19, Milwaukee. They're 16 and 20. They're 14 and 8. When Giannis plays, they have seven guys averaging 10 points a game. They have Rollins and Kevin Porter at 36 points a game combined, which is one of those. When you're going through the stats, you're like, wait, what? Yeah, I'm still in on this Bucks team. I'm the last one.
- [40:27]
B
I'm out.
- [40:28]
A
And it has nothing to do with that. I like Doc. I just think Giannis is that good. And I still. And I don't think the east is good. And I. I'm still just. I'm not officially closing the door on them in any capacity yet. They're not going to trade Giannis, so it's not happening.
- [40:42]
B
I am so frustrated with this team. I love this team about five years ago and then slowly watched that deteriorate transaction after transaction, coaching change after coaching, and here we are, dude. One of the crazy stats of the year, though, is this is the best shooting team in the NBA, the Milwaukee Bucks. And I.
- [41:00]
A
That's why I'm. That's why I'm still in Giannis and shooting something.
- [41:04]
B
That is something, Bill. And that's. That's a good position to take. I just don't think, like, this Ryan Rollins thing. And it's just. It's so frustrating. That used to be Jrue Holiday or even, like, Eric Bledsoe, for crying out loud. They. They used to have, like, better players next to Giannis. Chris Middleton, of course, Brook Lopez. Like, it's just sad to see the supporting cast. I'm as big of a Giannis guy as you'll find in the media. I love him. And it's just sad to see what they've surrounded him with. Well, they surrounded him with shooting and Kuzma.
- [41:37]
A
The Kuzma trade is the one that killed them because he's untradeable. I know they had to save some luxury tax last year, but you'd have Middleton as an expiring this year. You'd actually have the flexibility to go get somebody. And they can't because Kuzma doesn't make enough. Number 18, the Clippers, a team that I've seen in person a couple times recently. 13 and 22. Now. I was mailing my betting thread with Sal and House and Hench. I was mailing them Clippers division odds when they were 200 to 1 on FanDuel. And now they are 45 to 1. And I still like it. I don't like anyone in that division except for one team we're going to talk about later. But Harden's having quietly, a really good offensive season again. He's like 25, 8 and 7 or something. And then Kawhi, until Jalen Brown came in on Saturday night, punched him right in the mug. But Kawhi's. Kawhi's looked athletically as good as I've seen him the entire time in the Clippers. They had Derek Jones come back, who then got hurt. But they. They feel like they've figured out how to use John Collins finally. Yeah, the first 15 games, it was like, why is this guy in the team? What is he? And now They've figured that part out. They had a nice win against the Warri last night, but not counting them out either, because they have no incentive to not be good. Like they have to be good.
- [42:58]
B
Yeah, it's been a bad few weeks for okc. We'll talk about that later. But nobody's talking about one of the reasons why the Clippers are winning and that's bad for their.
- [43:08]
A
Their.
- [43:09]
B
Their next year's draft status, the OKC Thunder. That is Kawhi Leonard. I had one friend at the NBA tell me for a team say this is the best he's played since Toronto this stretch of games.
- [43:20]
A
I agree with that.
- [43:21]
B
He looks awesome and I know your guys went in there and won that game and I was very impressive. We'll talk about that, I'm sure, in a minute. But Kawhi Leonard, if he's going to play like this, dude, the Clippers are going to be good. And if Harden's going to play like this, the Clippers are going to be good. Those are big ifs, especially with Kawhi's availability. But yeah, just look at his numbers. He's scoring 30, 35, 40 on a routine basis. And maybe more important, he's playing his ass off on defense, Bill playing his.
- [43:52]
A
Ass off and very like, angry, competitive. Which is the scariest Kawhi dude, like.
- [43:58]
B
When we had him in San Antonio, it was like when he would get like that in that Memphis series. I know we take that for data series. He would go to this place where it was just like an 8th grader playing against 4th graders and just mean be meaner than everybody and take the ball. That's what we're seeing. I don't know if it's sustainable, but the Clippers look better than the 13 and 22 record next to their name.
- [44:21]
A
I agree. So if you look at the. The win total on FanDuel right now, they're over. Under is 38 and a half. So they're 13 and 22. So that means they'd have to be a little bit over.500. The thing that interests me about them, they're on their pick. So they want to be good.
- [44:39]
B
Right.
- [44:40]
A
They actually have some trade stuff.
- [44:42]
B
They have a lot of trade stuff.
- [44:45]
A
I think they're in play for a Davis trade possibly. Right. They could add up. Collins is 26.5 and expires after the year. Zubots is at 18:1, Bogdanovich is expiring at 16, Lopez is expiring at 8.7 and Batum is expiring at 5.6. They could put together any type of trade. So they could go get a $40 million guy, 45, 50, whatever it is, and make a play on a distressed asset if they want. And I'm just. I'm interested to see how that goes. I thought for sure this was. They were going to make a play on. On Trey Young or one of these guys. I guess Trey would have made sense because you already have Harden. But just one of these distressed asset. Max guys are close to Max.
- [45:28]
B
But what if they. What if they decided they were going to try to trade James Harden? What if they. What if they wanted to really go after it? I think that's something I heard around the league this week, too, is like Harden might. Might be in some of these conversations. I'm not reporting anything, but look, they have to.
- [45:46]
A
I'll tell you this. It wouldn't surprise me after Saturday because the Celtics knocked him down once and we never heard from him again in that game. I think he's at the point of his career where you just have to hit him a couple times. Trade machine crew. I probably should add the Clippers in there.
- [46:00]
B
Yeah.
- [46:01]
A
Number 17, Atlanta. The season's all over the map. The trade thing kind of burned out. Reese Sachet has been really bad. I'm not giving up on him, but he's been bad. And them taking him over Castle, I think, is getting really, really tough now. I thought Castle should have been first in the draft. That one's getting really hard now. If you're a Hawks fan, you just gotta be like, I think we can go.
- [46:26]
B
I think we can go further than that. Bill Simmons. I think if you look at the first three or four picks from that draft, you're starting to see Reed shepherd pop a little bit. That was another guy that.
- [46:35]
A
Well, they couldn't take him, though.
- [46:37]
B
Sure.
- [46:37]
A
You can't take him when you have Trey, right?
- [46:40]
B
Well, they might not have Trey soon and they could have Reed Shepard. So, you know, take. Yeah. So I think that draft class is starting to pop a little bit more than I expected, but not at that number one slot. And you're right about Rishi and then.
- [46:58]
A
Porzingis, which was their big summer trade, and he's still battling all his stuff. The weird thing about this team, other than them being 17 and 21, and I keep waiting for them to turn it around, it's just not happening. And yet I can't count them out. They're getting this incredible Alexander Walker season. He's averaging 20.5 points a game and is a crunch Time guy for them sometimes and is guarding the other teams like one of their best players. And it's just like so they A plus signing there, probably a D minus F plus for the Reichet pick. The Porzingis is an incomplete. But I just would have thought if that Alexander Walker move hit like that. How are you 17 and 21?
- [47:41]
B
They've had obvious. There's clearly a chemistry issue there. Right? I mean the on off numbers with Trey say it all. Their defense is absolutely terrible. As soon as Trey shouldn't be terrible.
- [47:53]
A
Well, they have good defensive guys on the roster, but it's terrible.
- [47:57]
B
Yeah, there's clearly a chemistry thing and I think that's behind the scenes. The reason why we saw the news from Mark Stein and the previous report from Shams about them working with the agents trying to find a new place. It's just clearly, I think a chemistry thing. And the other sneaky part of it is Porzingis. Talk about big ifs like Anthony Davis when that guy's out there. The Hawks are good. It's actually more of a Porzingis thing than a Trey thing. I think for them going forward is like, can they get any kind of regularity from Porzingis? Because they could flip this around if. If they get off of Trey Young and Porzingis is healthy, the Eastern Conference is there to be had. Zach did an entire podcast about it yesterday. The Hawks. I am not giving up on them by any means.
- [48:44]
A
I intentionally didn't listen to Zach's podcast yesterday because I knew I was doing this today and I didn't want to be tainted with his opinions with his Northeastern.
- [48:53]
B
It was an excellent podcast as always.
- [48:55]
A
I'm sorry, I'm going to listen to it today. Golden State 16, they're 19 and 18. Tough loss last night. They're getting an all time Curry season. Curry's having his best year in three years. He's almost at five threes a game. I just think he's been really, really good. Doesn't have that like, I'm getting super tired, I'm tired of carrying everybody kind of vibe yet, which I think we'll probably have in a month. What's interesting to me about them is their 20th in offense and so you think like, oh, they got to get a center, they got to do this. And it's like they actually need scoring. You know, they're paying all this money for Jimmy Butler who's 17 and 19 a game. Draymond can't score. They have all these other bench guys that you don't Know whether you're getting. And that's why I thought Porter would be an interesting one for them. If you're them and you're looking at how do we possibly ever in the million years beat OKC or San Antonio in a series which Kerr was, went out of his way to say how impossible that was. I disagree a little bit because they have Curry. I'm just going all in on offense.
- [50:00]
B
Yeah.
- [50:01]
A
I want to build a team that can outscore other teams and kind of do what the Celtics are doing. The Celtics are second in offense. It doesn't make a lot of sense, but they're getting 130, 140 points a game. I think they need to add scoring because you saw it last night. Curry fouled out. They had to run the last play for Butler. He ends up with a turnaround with Batum guarding him. It's an air ball. They don't have a second guy who can create a shot. So that's what I would do. What would you do?
- [50:27]
B
I mean, they. They have to throw bad money after bad money. I think continue to go after somebody like Giannis or Anthony Davis. I think that's what.
- [50:38]
A
Giannis is going to be too expensive, though. They can't do that.
- [50:41]
B
So maybe it's A.D. but look, I just don't think there's a path for them to get back to that group. Stephen Curry. Look at the on off numbers. It's almost Jokic. Like the difference between the competence when Stephan is on the court on their offense versus just the sheer incompetence. As soon as he sits down, they turn into what would be the worst offense in the league. They brought in Jimmy Butler, Bill, in part to stem that, and it's just. It's just not working. Al Horford hasn't clicked the way they expected that to.
- [51:15]
A
When you say he hasn't clicked.
- [51:18]
B
I.
- [51:18]
A
Mean, there's other stuff we could say there.
- [51:20]
B
Well, you can say it.
- [51:23]
A
No, I think it's over.
- [51:25]
B
Yeah.
- [51:26]
A
The one thing I've noticed with the Celtics, I was talking about, because I was glad I got to see them in person at the Clipper game. The difference of having Porzingis and Horford as two of the bigs that are playing a ton of minutes versus what they have now with Kada and Garza, who on paper are much worse players. Right. And with no experience, make no sense, but are better for the Celtics offensively because they set these big, bulky picks 25ft from the basket on top of the key. And the two guards in, Jalen and Simons, they all know how to use these guys. And these guys are just. They're really hard to get around, and they create space and they roll. They know when to roll to the basket. Their hands are up and they're just. It's just a better offense. And Horford, who didn't rebound, by the way, I love Al Horford. He was, you know, I wish he hadn't left the team twice. And I don't know why he left the team to go to a. That can't contend under the guise of contending. But he didn't rebound, he didn't get to the free throw line. He didn't play all the time. These guys now, they play every game. They're young, they bang bodies, they're physical, they can overpower teams. And the Celts are just in a better spot. So I look at Horford for what this warriors team needs. This warriors team needs rebounding. They need consistency. They need guys who can play every day. They need physicality. He doesn't give any of that stuff to them.
- [52:51]
B
No, their front court has been bad. And it's just, you know, Draymond is what he is. He's not going to get you rebounds. He's surprisingly great rim protector. He's going to facilitate offense. But they used to have Kevon Looney, you know, they used to have, I mean, going way back, Bogut like next to them. Now it's just that character is not there. And of course, the Klay Thompson character is not there. And the non. The non. Steph minutes are a disaster. And that's really.
- [53:22]
A
I mean, you have to have a second score. This is like even the Celtics. Simons, it doesn't happen every game, but he'll come in and he could take over a quarter, right? You know, he could get 13 and a half. It's just like a wild card variable on top of like the set stuff that they have every game. The warriors don't even really have that. I even know like who their heat check guy is. Is it Will Richard? Like. Like, who is it? It's.
- [53:46]
B
Yeah, I don't know. I've buddy healed occasionally and then.
- [53:49]
A
Yeah, they just. They don't know who it is. They never know game to game who they're going to get it from. They never know who the second scorer is. And Butler is just like, he's gonna go 6 for 11 every game. And that's kind of who he is at this point.
- [54:00]
B
I guess I want to live in a world where Stephen Curry is the second guy before he's done. I just want to live that. He deserves like somebody else to sort of be out there on the back to backs and he's resting and he doesn't have to do this. He's. He's one of my favorite players of all time. And it's just.
- [54:17]
A
Well, that world unfortunately is going to be the 2028 Olympic team. 16, Miami 20 and 16. We can skip them if only because then their fans can go oh, you skip Miami 14, Orlando 20 and 16.
- [54:36]
B
Right.
- [54:37]
A
If I told you before the year Anthony Black is going to make a leap and be a guy who could actually be an end of the game, you notice him guy and Orlando's going to be 20 and 16, what would you what your reaction have been? Was there a bus crash? There was.
- [54:53]
B
There was some nerd community stuff about AB last year so I wouldn't have been totally shocked.
- [54:59]
A
Yeah.
- [55:01]
B
This is a disappointing 20 and 16. And to borrow from the sports guy himself, it feels like the Pistons have market corrected the Orlando Magic's place in the Eastern Conference hierarchy. I feel like Detroit sort of came in and became that top team scrappy defensive minded guys as.
- [55:26]
A
But.
- [55:26]
B
But you know I was early on the what's going on with Paolo stuff and not that got everybody.
- [55:30]
A
You were first. I fel like that you were the. You kind of started it.
- [55:34]
B
It's not always a great place to be, I'll tell you. And you know that better than anybody. But yeah, Paolo's gotta be more consistent. They're still, they still have a negative net rating when he has to be more consistent.
- [55:44]
A
He's shooting 26% from three, shooting 45% in a league where everybody's stats are way up. Like my fear with him.
- [55:53]
B
Yeah.
- [55:54]
A
And it's super early. They can't do anything this year. He's a poison pill guy. They can't trade him. My fear for him though is I don't want him to turn into one of those early 2000s forwards that we had. The Sharif, Juwan Howard, Antwan Jameson, Antoine, these guys that they were in the low 20s with stats.
- [56:14]
B
Yeah.
- [56:15]
A
You kind of felt like they weren't ever going to make a shot in the last minute of a game. But the teams really deferred to them and you're just kind of a no man's lane with them. I think, I think it's in. It's in a little bit of play now with him as young as he is. It's just my fear.
- [56:29]
B
Yeah. The league, as we talked about earlier, the league is sort of Moving on in a different, you know, it's just a smarter league and like these kinds of inefficiencies, these habits, these inefficient habits or these inabilities on defense. For Palo, it's a jump shooting problem. You can't take this many jumpers and be this bad at it and be a superstar. Those days are gone. There were times when you could do that. We're not doing that anymore. So he's got to get a better.
- [56:53]
A
Shot diet, pass it over the complimentary player.
- [56:58]
B
Right. That's what I'm saying.
- [56:59]
A
And he can do.
- [56:59]
B
And that's the most frustrating thing. And league history is full of these frustrating dudes. You know it better than me. Guys who could be playmakers but insisted on being that scorer that, that's, that's where it's headed right now. And I just want to see him sort of wake up to. He is a very well rounded talent.
- [57:20]
A
If their season goes terribly, they will be maybe a top three most fascinating summer team.
- [57:26]
B
Yeah.
- [57:27]
A
Because they'll be able to trade him in the summer. And maybe they'll just decide, let's cash this asset in. Another team would decide, oh, my God, Palo's available. And we're off. Number 13. We are now in the pleasant surprises category. Philadelphia at 19 and 15.0.9 ratings. I think they're 30 and O in clutch games. Yeah, I don't, I don't feel like I've ever seen them lose a clutch game until last night. Somehow Denver, Denver's G league team, smoke them in overtime. I listen, we've talked about them a bunch in the past on this pod. I still think Maxi's been a first team all NBA guy. I'm having trouble putting a ceiling on VJ at this point. I don't really know what I'm watching anymore. Initially I thought it was like early Dwayne Wade, but now I'm like, this just might be Dwayne Wade.
- [58:18]
B
He's great.
- [58:19]
A
Like, for real. This might be Dwayne Wade again. And then there are moments where you're like, is. Is that not high enough of a ceiling? And I think Dwyane Wade is the top 30 guy. I'm not saying BJ's gonna get there. I'm just saying there's moments where you're like, oh my God, right? What was that?
- [58:37]
B
He had some big threes last night in that loss. But yeah, it's just, it feels to me like there's like this fun story in the back court and then sad story in the Front court with this team. And it goes to the cap sheet, too. It's like, hey, we're paying a lot of money for these sad dudes in the front court. And then we're paying, like, we have cost control on these incredibly fun young guards with masks.
- [59:01]
A
Do you think Paul George has been that bad? Because I actually don't think he's been that bad in what I've seen. No, he's been fine.
- [59:06]
B
It's Davis, right?
- [59:07]
A
It's. It's.
- [59:08]
B
If he's out there, I'm. I'm. I'm happy. He's such a good defender still. He has such great instincts, and he's such a veteran. But it's 18 games, Bill. He's played 18 games. Here we go again.
- [59:17]
A
I haven't minded what I saw. I think the most important thing that's happened with them. I don't know what happens with Embiid. I mean, history will tell you where we. We know what's going to happen, but the most important thing that's happened is that it's Max's team at the end of these games now. Like yesterday when they had. When they actually needed a basket in regulation ot.
- [59:38]
B
Yeah.
- [59:38]
A
Everyone else goes to the side and Maxi tries to figure out what they're going to do. And I never thought Embiid would, you know, as long as he was on the court, I always felt like they would be trapped by this Embiid thing, and I don't think they are anymore. I think they kind of know, like, this is now Max's team. Everybody gets it. So even just accomplishing that is huge, I think.
- [59:57]
B
Yeah, I agree. And, like, he's the face of the team. If you look at the early returns in All Star voting, he's near the top. He's a superstar in the making. And then Tierra Point about vj, it's like, that's. That's good. Like I said about Cooper earlier, it's like there's two kinds of teams. Those who have a clear future direction and those who don't. And, like, the Sixers have two of the best young guards in the NBA, and that's a great place to be. The Joel Embiid situation, like, he made some terrible plays down the stretch in that Denver loss, which was one of the sort of more shocking results of recent NBA. Like, just.
- [60:32]
A
Just the.
- [60:33]
B
The. The. Who was the best player on that Nuggets team last night? Pickett, I think.
- [60:37]
A
Bruce Brown and Pickett. Yeah, it was a fascinating game. I watched the whole second half and I'm like, what's going on here? Just kept waiting for Denver to die because I'm rooting against Philly, obviously from a Celtic standpoint. But listen, whatever happens, the fans love these two guys and everything else will shake out. They're fine. Number 12, Toronto, 22 and 15. There were a couple points last week. I felt like the season was going to tilt on them and go the other way. And they pulled out one game and then all of a sudden they seem fine. I'm still. To me, they feel like a regular season team to me because of the bench, which in the playoffs I just think is way harder to be sustainable. But over the course of 82 games, when you have four or five guys that can come in and swing a quarter, it's a little better. But they've definitely been a little better than I thought. I'm still. Still dubious. Not as dubious for them. Great step forward for them. Not as dubious as I am of this next team. We are now in the enigmas category. Number 11, the Lakers, 22 and 11 with a minus 0.2 rating. And they just like, yeah, the Memphis game the other day, Memphis is, you know, taking it to them in the second quarter. They're up like 15 and Coward, who's killing them, gets hurt. Right. And then the Lakers turn that. I feel like they've had five of those this year. I'm just going to say this is not a 22 and 11 team. I don't think they think they're a 22 and 11 team. JJ seems like he's ready to start drinking on the sidelines during these games. The vibes are just very strange.
- [62:14]
B
Yeah, they have. I'm looking at their last 15 games. I mean, they have won over their expected statistical profile all year long. Like, over the last 15 games, they're 8 and 7. That's pretty good. But their net rating is negative 5. And they have the worst defense in the. In the Western Conference outside of Utah in that time period. Like they are. I don't know how they're doing it. Obviously, when they win, they have some great offensive weapons to credit. But, dude, when you see the defensive numbers of the Los Angeles Lakers, this screams lottery to me. I mean, when you're down there on defense, it's very hard to even make the playoffs. They. They are maybe the best shooting team in the NBA and they get to the free throw line more than anybody. But Even with those two incredible things I just said they're 500. They model like a 500 team and somehow to your earlier point, they're 22 and 11.
- [63:16]
A
Their last 15 games, they're minus 4.9 offensive rating, which is fifth worst in the league. The teams behind them are Sacramento, Indiana, Utah and Washington. Yeah, like, think about that. New Orleans has a better net rating with them. Defensively, they are 29th in the last 15 games. Like, this is like you're losing any playoff round. You play with how bad they are on defense and. And they don't seem really happy either. So there you go. Number 10, Cleveland. Feel like we've talked about them every week on the pod. I just want to see all their guys playing together for three weeks before I figure out what. And that includes the roll guys. Like, let me just see the healthy calves for three weeks before I decide. Three games over.500 is stunning to me, though. Plus 2.4 rating. Okay. Number nine, the maybe sleeper, the Phoenix Suns at 21 and 15. 1.7 net rating over and over again. Winning these close games or coming close to winning these close games or just being in close games. They've been one of the League Pass MVPs of the year. They feel like they have. Even though his stats are basically the same as last year. They brought back Booker.
- [64:36]
B
Yep.
- [64:37]
A
Where? He's. He's in. He's in. He's bought into everything they're doing. That was great, considering they reinvested in him. The Dylan Brooks thing's been really fun. They gotten two games from Jalen Green all year. Not sure that matters. How fluky is this to you?
- [64:55]
B
Not fluky. I think they're the Jacksonville Jaguars of the current NBA season. I don't think any of us saw this coming. They have a new coach, a new identity. I think Dylan Brooks deserves more credit than any person on the roster for sort of changing the brand of this team that you and I watched together last year in Austin. That looked like they hated one another. They looked like they didn't like their coach. They didn't. Some people at espn, our friends over there said this is the worst predicament of any team in the league by far. And I. Not. I'm not roasting those people. I'm just saying, like, that's what people were saying around the NBA, and here they are.
- [65:35]
A
It's.
- [65:35]
B
It's one of the best stories in the league. And in a year where there's some great stories, you know, Gillespie has been great. Goodwin is great. Jordan Odd has brought this offense.
- [65:44]
A
You mean Goodwin, the guy the Lakers waved?
- [65:46]
B
Dude, you could make a pretty good.
- [65:48]
A
James and Dalton connect. They waved. Jordan Goodwin.
- [65:51]
B
Zubach is on team that can't guard anybody.
- [65:54]
A
That's unbelievable.
- [65:54]
B
Julius Randall.
- [65:56]
A
Oh, my Lord.
- [65:57]
B
Yeah, the former Laker All Stars. Oso, big leap for him. He plays games, but I'll say, you know, I watched their game pretty closely at the end last night. You know, tough back to back. By the way, we should mention they beat okc and that was another sort of like, oh, this is not fluky. Then they go to Houston on a back to back bill, and that's what you would call an either or game in the NBA. Durant gets one of the best shots of his entire career in the regular season just to end that game. Awesome moment for him, awesome moment for the Rockets. But from a Phoenix perspective, you had to be pretty good. That's a tough back to back and you beat the Thunder and then hang with the Rockets till the very end. So, I mean, I think it's all about OTT and Dylan Brooks, but you're right. Booker is the leader of this.
- [66:47]
A
This episode is brought to you by Zoom. Work moves faster when everything works together. Zoom brings meetings, chat, doc and AI companion together on one powerful platform designed to help teams stay focused and connected. With everything in one place, collaboration feels smoother, ideas flow easier and projects move forward faster. It's smart, simple and built for people. Take control of your workday. Get more done. Join the movement@Zoom.com podcast Zoom Ahead Team.
- [67:18]
B
Now, the last thing I'll say, how did that game end? Everybody knows they need to get the ball to Booker, the secondary, offensive option. There's Dylan Brooks. That doesn't really scare anybody in those kinds of moments. So going forward, I think they need one more threat on offense beyond Booker to be to get to that next level of Western Conference.
- [67:37]
A
They might have it. It might be Jalen Green.
- [67:39]
B
Yeah, it's fair. Let's see it.
- [67:41]
A
I watch them. I see a lot of the same stuff. I think it's the most stunning thing of the year. I was under on them for 31 and a half games. They're exceptionally well coached.
- [67:53]
B
Right?
- [67:53]
A
He's awesome. Every game, everybody seems like they know where. It's same thing with the Celtics. They know where they should be, what their role is. They're bought in. Everybody gives a shit. Which is another thing I talked about a couple weeks ago with, I think with Legs about the secret to the Celtics success this year is every single guy on the team has something to prove. I think you could say the same for Phoenix. So you go down the line. Every single guy has Something to prove. Brooks is mad they traded him. Gillespie wants to show he's a player. Mark Williams got traded. The Lakers, they pulled out of the trade. He's in fuck you mode. Charlotte trades them. But you go on down the line and all these guys are bought in and have something to prove, which, you know, during a regular season matters. But you know, the, the fact that they can defend with guys that are just fringe guys that a lot of teams could have had. But I, the, the booker piece is the main piece to me. Like to have somebody at the end of these games. The same thing the Celtics have with Jalen. They have somebody that can go toe to toe with whoever the other guy's best player is. Philly has that with Maxi. You have to have one of those guys now because you get into these four minutes left situations and if you don't have the guy to match baskets, you're going to lose.
- [69:05]
B
Yeah. And it's almost like this mystical thing. The year over year vibe differential is one of the greatest I've ever seen, if not the greatest. I can't think of another one where it just went from so toxic to the exact opposite of toxic. Like you're saying that defensive identity, the rebounding, that cohesion, that give a shitness. And you got to look at Jordan ott. Brian Gregory has sort of reinvented the front office, but. And then Dylan Brooks on the floor, as I mentioned. Just talk about give a shit guy. Like every second, every game. Maybe too much, but he, he. It's contagious. And I just love their identity. Yeah.
- [69:44]
A
And the Celtics have a bunch of those guys too. And I don't think it's an accident to compare those two teams. You have guys that shouldn't feel like they're as good as everyone on the other team, but they do. Like, if the Celtics play okc, they're going to think they should beat okc. Does that make sense on paper? No. Phoenix beats OKC two nights ago. It makes no sense on paper. I just like where they're at. We're moving into the contenders now. Number eight, New York, which is the flip side of this, where New York looks like they're already tired of each other after they won the NBA Cup. It's like that wasn't the title, guys. That was the Cup. I mean, I won't be the first person to make this point or the last. It really feels like there's, there's some hardcore evidence now that you don't want to be in the semifinals of the NBA Cup. If you care about the season, you're better off just getting out of there. This has ruined every team, every year that's been in there.
- [70:32]
B
Well, the second place finisher in the NBA cup is often. It's often the stepping stone is the finishing second.
- [70:39]
A
Yeah. Not winning though.
- [70:42]
B
It's true. And I know you probably know this or have it at your fingertips, but I think there's still the favorites to win the Eastern Conference. Right?
- [70:51]
A
They are.
- [70:53]
B
When I look at the west and the East, I would take OKC versus the field still in the west. And I know we have to address some stuff going on with the Thunder, but I am certainly taking the field over the Knicks in the east, particularly the Pistons, who I think are a superior team. Exhibit A last night on the basketball court. But also your team, which I don't know if you're doing the. The reverse jinx. I think that's the best story in the NBA right now, ahead of the Suns. And I think the Celtics are going to be a real threat. And wouldn't it be so great for Celtics fans to see that Knicks team again in the playoffs?
- [71:32]
A
Tatum, get him back to msg.
- [71:34]
B
Yeah, it would be a great. But from the Knicks perspective, dude, the defense isn't good enough right now. The defense isn't good enough right now. You can pick on Towns, you can pick on Brunson. You compare that to what's going on in Detroit where they just have the best defense in the conference if they're not shooting the lights out. And when I saw them beat San Antonio, that core group of five guys is one of the best offensive groups that you can have on the court. The problems on the other end and is that really a championship level defense for me? I'm sorry. I think the answer is no.
- [72:08]
A
Multiple guys to pick on.
- [72:10]
B
Right? Point of attack and rim protect. Now Mitchell Robinson changes the geometry for them, but point of attack, just like the Lakers, we can pick on you there and you don't protect the rim particularly well. What are you doing good on defense.
- [72:26]
A
I feel like I asked this question every three weeks, but would you think about Davis for Towns?
- [72:34]
B
They love the Kentucky guys. That's an interesting one. I don't think so.
- [72:40]
A
A couple weeks ago the answer was no because Towns was having a good year and Davis hadn't proven he could even stay in the court. Now I think it's a little more reasonable.
- [72:54]
B
What about the honest stuff? Do you think that in play for them?
- [72:58]
A
I just don't think it's conceivable this season Yeah, I don't think, I just don't think it works from a trade machine standpoint.
- [73:06]
B
But you would take the field over the next in the Eastern Conference.
- [73:10]
A
I would take. If you just gave me New York on one end and Detroit, Boston, Cleveland on the other end. I would take Detroit, Boston, Cleveland. Yeah, I think it's more realistic one of those three teams win from what we've seen the last two weeks.
- [73:23]
B
Yeah, we're aligned. I mean, by the way, we should say the Knicks have a four game losing streak. The exact time the Celtics have surged.
- [73:31]
A
The bigger issue for me with them is there's two teams in the east that I think are just bad matchups for them, Detroit and Boston. Yeah, Boston has all these dudes to throw at Brunson and when Tatum, I don't know what happens when Tatum comes back, how many minutes he's going to have, but I just, I think they like the matchup against, against the Knicks. And then Detroit is kind of built to beat the Knicks, you know, and they have a million guys to throw at them. They're tougher than the Knicks front court. And that's just going to come down to how good is Mitchell Robinson going to be in that series? I think if it's Knicks, Pistons.
- [74:02]
B
Well, we saw it last year.
- [74:03]
A
I think we saw it last year. He swung the series.
- [74:05]
B
New York is, is, is as good as they were last year, but Detroit is much better and Detroit almost took him out last year. Arguably could have without a bad guy.
- [74:15]
A
Yeah, I'm, I'd be a little worried if I'm the Knicks, but we've learned over the years don't, don't get to anything one way or the other when it's game 36. I don't think it's a good sign where they look now. I could see them turning it around, but you made the key point. They have two guys on defense you can just pick on number seven, Minnesota 23 and 13. I still continue to think they're underrated because how good Ian is and they know who they are and I'm sure they'll figure out some sort of point guard, some, some way to make that a little better. The only point I had on this team was I think Randall and Defincenzo for Towns was just a great trade. It's interesting to have a trade that was that big that a year plus later I feel like both teams would still do it.
- [74:59]
B
Oh, that's interesting.
- [75:00]
A
Yeah, that's a good point where it's like they would just no Hesitation, still say yes, which usually you have a trade and then a year later it's like eh, like the warriors with Jimmy Butler. I know they didn't give up that much, but would they? Are they as excited about that trading seven months later? Probably not. Right, right. You go through and most teams are like ah, I don't know. Celtics number six. We've talked about, I've talked about them too much on the pod, but I just think I said to Sal on Sunday, this, this thing with Tatum coming back, whenever he comes back, trying to fit into how different the team is now and how different they play and how much runs through Jalen and the two guards, they don't walk it up. They're always like trying to make decisive moves. There's a lot of movement and Pritchard and White and then Simons when he comes in, have the ball a lot. And this was a team that was very Tatum dependent. Walking it up, trying to decide, people standing around and I just don't think that's the team anymore. And the two bigs, the way that they, as I mentioned earlier, are able to screen for the guys 20ft from the basket, like he's never really had that before. So on paper you're like just replace Charman and some Houser and some Minot and replace some minutes and just put Jason Tatum in there. They're going to be better, but you know, I need to see it.
- [76:24]
B
Well, we've seen it like some stunning stats. Like the way I look at the game in the last 15 games, they have the best record in the NBA, they have the best net rating in the NBA, they have the Best offense in the NBA and they have some really good wins. And here's.
- [76:41]
A
They've gone toe to toe with almost all the good teams at this point.
- [76:45]
B
Yeah, they do. And they look good. And that's what I'm saying. Like the way I look at the game, it's like why am I supposed to think that New York is better than this team? Certainly recently they haven't been. And then the most compelling player in the next four months in the NBA is Jason Tatum. Like we're. I just told you, the record over the last 15 games, the foundation is so much better than any of us thought it was five months ago. I'm so impressed with the depth of the Boston Celtics. The next man up thing, the Spanish rookies, they're finding Keda's ability to be so much more energetic, Missoula's ability to reimagine the offense around Jalen Brown in a high usage role. Derrick White, who's not shooting it particularly well, but doing everything else perfectly. Dude, like if you're getting your first team all NBA guy back on top of this, it becomes the most interesting story in the second half of the NBA season.
- [77:47]
A
Yeah, it's funny, I look at it. I really miss his rebounding and his defense thought he was a great rebounder, especially when you go against some of these teams that are bigger. I think he was like 11th in rebounding last year.
- [77:58]
B
The most underrated part of his game. He's a massive.
- [78:01]
A
He was 10 rebounds a game and in playoffs that goes up to 12. So I think like just getting the rebound and the defense and how smart of a. Kind of just fit into the. Whatever's happening player. He is just getting that. We don't need him to score 30 a game on this team anymore. He needs to fit in with the other stuff. But he's Jason Tatum, he was third in the MVP last year. We've never really seen a situation like this. There's also. Jalen went up a level and I think from running an offense through a team. Yeah, I mean, I'm sorry. Running an offense through a guy. Jalen's as good as Tatum is right now with running an offense through him. The way he's able to use his teammates and the shots that he's able to get. He's moved to the same level as Tatum. So it's a good problem to have, but it is a problem.
- [78:47]
B
And it's another look. It's like when the spurs could win with Timmy on the post and then run Manu off the bench and he's slashing and they're playing like a different game. This whole like Spanish pick and roll stuff they have going on with jb, it is another sort of look that their. Their offense is completely different. And then when Tatum comes back, they can. They can throw different looks. It's almost like having different pitchers to throw at a batter. Like they.
- [79:15]
A
Well, one thing I was thinking was when they do the five out, which they've done a lot more of this year, and they have, it'll be like Hauser and somebody else in the corner, Simons in the corner, whoever with Jalen kind of running it. And then maybe a guy coming up or. But just him as the focal point trying to either find people or shoot a two. You put Tatum in the corner now, which they never really did last year. It was always like kind of. Jalen would be the one that was always in the Corner. You moved Tatum as a supporting guy playing off Jalen. We never really saw that enough. Even in the finals when they were kind of doing the dueling Banjos thing, they didn't have the five out the way. It works now. I don't think to your earlier point.
- [79:55]
B
Like, imagine Jason as that crashing rebounder coming off the weak side when Jalen's running this current action like he is such a talent. He's never got to do that. This is.
- [80:08]
A
Or could Jalen send him picks? Could he set him like the Garza type picks? I don't even know if he'd be good at that. We never saw it. So I. The key is they need to get him back if he's going to come back. Beginning of March, I think to see it kind of work for two months, ease him back, play him 15, 16 minutes a game and just make it additive. Don't make it seem like, all right, you're back, you're Jason Tatum again. I don't think they can do that. I don't think they will.
- [80:33]
B
I have two questions for you that I'm sure your audience wants to hear you answer about the Boston Celtics. The first one is, what are the streets talking about with Jason? The timetable with this thing?
- [80:45]
A
It's always been all Star break March range. And I think they're rightfully super hesitant about it. I think the thing that's changed. It was funny watching him at the Clipper game on Saturday. He goes to all the games. He's part of the team. He's coming back. There's no question. I think what was interesting was they were going to be in a position a little like Indiana right now that that was the worst case scenario of the season.
- [81:09]
B
Yeah.
- [81:09]
A
Well, what, what happens if we're 10 and 29 and he's ready to come back and you kind of have to be like, no, dude, hold off. That's completely flipped now. It's like this team's an actual contender. So of course he's coming back. And what would be the point of him not coming back if he's ready to play? It's a 10 month injury. Why would he want to wait till October to play basketball again? He's in his 20s, you know, so he's coming back.
- [81:36]
B
That's my second question. Then if this guy comes back and he's 85% of Jayson Tatum, do they immediately become the favorites to win the Eastern Conference or is it like a Jordan and number 45 jersey era, like.
- [81:50]
A
It'S going to take him. I Don't think they're the favorites. I think we've seen this too many times with guys coming back. And the most famous one, somebody sent me an email about this. I apologize. I can't remember the person. But about the 0:4 kings with it became Paige's team because Chris Weber was hurt. And the Kings fans were like, oh, when Chris Weber, as soon as he comes back, this is going to be awesome. And then Chris Weber came back and it screwed them up. Now, Chris Weber was broken down at that point of his career. For the most part, I think that was the difference. Tatum's not going to be broken down. He's going to be healthy. But, you know, it's not. It's not perfect. There's been scenarios where guys have come back and it hasn't gone the way people thought.
- [82:31]
B
But. Well, let me say it for you because I made Zach say the spurs were in pristine shape the day after Christmas. And I'll say it for you. I think the Boston Celtics are in a very, very strong position if they get 80% of Jayson Tatum in March.
- [82:51]
A
The one thing that I think has unquestionably changed is they were definitely going to try to get under the first apron and completely reset everything and try to figure out how to trade Simons and do those trades like Simons for Malik Monk and you save 6 million and you pay somebody to take Tillman, that kind of stuff. They're not thinking that way anymore. And Simon's. If you're doing six man of the year, he's in the running now, right? I mean, Simons is like 14 points a game and he comes in, he's getting more and more comfortable each. So I don't. I think the saving money thing's gone and they have a new owner who hasn't ever rooted for a good team before. Chisholm, who everybody speaks highly of. It's not like he's going to be going, yeah, yeah, no, can we just cut another 6 million? Like, this guy's like, holy shit, we're good. I thought I bought 11. Number five, Detroit 27, nine. We talked about them to be interesting. The big thing for them is give it a year or go for it. Houston number four, 22 and 11 a little bit in the same issue of. They could get wacky and just do like Fred Van Vuitt and a contract and some of their picks and just say fuck it and try to get Trey or John Moran or one of these dudes just to. But I don't think they will. I think They'll. I think they'll.
- [84:07]
B
I think they're good. They're. They're good. They won that game last night. This is kind of where our. I thought they would be overall, but I've been shocked at how competent their offense has been without Fred Van Vliet. But the offensive rebounding, the historic stuff at Bears mentioning, it's like they're just punishing people. I know Shanghub is missing some time, but. But Stephen Adams is still just the most dominant offensive rebounder in the league, and it gives him an identity. And like you said, what did they lack last year, Bill? A guy who could make the exact shot that Kevin Durant made last night.
- [84:42]
A
He. I do my all NBA three teams every. Every week just to update it. So I have it in my head. And I think Durant's played his way into the third team. I think there's two rockets that you would have to put in the top 50 now. And I think Booker's on there, too. Would be the other guy.
- [84:58]
B
Thompson looked electric last night, too.
- [85:00]
A
Like, Thompson's on the bubble. Thompson's another one where it's like, oh, man, you might have to throw the stats out with him. Number three, San Antonio. I mean, we've talked about them on the ringer all over the place the last couple weeks. We'll see. It's. It's. What am I getting Wemby healthy in April, May and June, and there's no way to know.
- [85:22]
B
No way to know.
- [85:23]
A
I just want to see him play for three straight months, please.
- [85:26]
B
The biggest development there is. Even if he's not there, they're a good team, which is crazy. I was out on the spurs for a playoff spot this year in large part because I didn't believe without Wemby they could walk and chew gum at the same time. They've done more than that. Fox has fit in. And then, like the young guards, Castle has made the leap. Dylan Harper. I don't know which of these two guards I like more. I go back and forth. I love them. And then Harrison Barnes, Champagne, Keldon Johnson, this. Lou Cornette.
- [85:58]
A
This is just Cornet signing was great.
- [86:01]
B
It was great. And Harrison Barnes giving us.
- [86:03]
A
He's the Celtic we missed the most out of all the guys that left. Well, do you.
- [86:07]
B
Do you think the Celtics should get in the market for a Gafford or another big. I think they're going to compete this year. That front court as good as Kate has been. Garza, it's a nice story. Do you want to bolster that front court a little bit.
- [86:24]
A
I think there's buyout potential with somebody. I don't. I'd be really surprised if they did a trade. Yeah, I don't. Sometimes when it's going really. I think Phoenix is probably in the same boat when you have something really special going on with a group of guys that just like playing basketball with each other. I don't. I don't want to fuck with it. You saw Cleveland do it last year when they were playing great and then they did that Hunter trade and they've kind of never been the same since. Not his fault. But it messed with their chemistry.
- [86:49]
B
Yeah. Jerome was a big part of their vibe. Yep.
- [86:54]
A
One thing I'll say about San Antonio, because I did a lot of research on them and I was trying to figure out if I'd want to make a move or not if I was them. Keldon Johnson's like the kid. There was a huge piece about him last week. Keldon Johnson's like the emotional fulcrum of their team.
- [87:08]
B
Dude.
- [87:09]
A
They love him. Like, he's. He's like the guy in that team. And it's like if you're making a big trade for somebody with them, him and Barnes have to be in it. And I think those are two huge locker room guys for them. I don't see them doing anything.
- [87:20]
B
Kelden was like this neither here nor there guy for a few years and it's an incredible sort of teaching lesson because what happened, Bill was like, they just got deeper. He slid down a notch or two in the rotation and then became like the energy guy and one of the best sort of energetic off the bench rebounders in the league. And just this, I'm going to be Mr. Effort like Peak Kenneth Fareed and it brings the. The arena just loves him. I don't think you could move him. They're another team that. I just don't think you mess with this chemistry right now.
- [87:52]
A
Couldn't agree more. Unless Trey Murphy became available. Then you'd have to really probably think about it at that point. Denver number two, 24 and 12. And everyone on the team is hurt. And the only thing they really say about this is a I miss Jokic, but just miss him. Yeah, I'm like. I'm like. I'm like the weatherman, the sports guy in Anchorman. I just miss. I miss your scent, Mr. Musk. Get an apartment together. I just miss Jokic.
- [88:24]
B
There's like a five year sub genre of the Simmons podcast where you talk about Embiid playing Jokic and NMB ducking the, the smoke and we missed that last night. That would have happened last night. I know. So we missed him. But dude, I. There's a quirky chance here that this, this Denver team with all these injuries stumbles into some depth for the long term.
- [88:48]
A
They're getting, getting reps for dudes that wouldn't be playing otherwise.
- [88:51]
B
Pickett's like the one that, man, I've always loved that guy and he's such a sort of a five tool player and I'd love to see him find his way more into the rotation. Maybe like last night he was excellent in that win, but this is still the best offense in the league.
- [89:07]
A
Did you see they're averaging almost 100 or before Jokic got hurt, it was almost 125 points a game. Just 125 points a game. I didn't see that. That's why with some of these stats it's. I almost feel like we're heading toward where baseball hit in the mid-90s when the baseball stats for different reasons started to become crazy and you almost couldn't compare errors anymore. It's like, how am I going to compare this to something in 1977? I feel when if you actually go like, you just go on Basketball Reference or wherever and you just, just look at the points per game, all the guys, and all the guys averaging like 22 points a game are shooting 40% from three, it's like fucking bonkers. It's like 60 guys. It feels like, dude, the one that.
- [89:53]
B
I had in my notes, I'll, I'll go back to it just because it makes this point. Like Con Knippel is hitting 44% of his threes on over eight per game. Like that's one of the best three point shooting seasons ever. He's a rookie. But it's like there's so much shooting talent now this office efficiency is, is through the roof. And you're right, like it's inflated some of the numbers like Balco did back in the day for.
- [90:17]
A
It really feels that way. Like Shaden sharp is averaging 21.6 points a game.
- [90:23]
B
Right.
- [90:24]
A
Josh Giddey is averaging 19 nine and nine. On a bulls team nobody cares about. It's just really hard to figure all this stuff out. So we agree on Denver. I think the only thing for them is if they fall past, they can fall past four. They can't fall on a seven, eight, nine, ten. I think they need to. Six has to be the basement for them. If Jokic is actually out for a while. There's whatever. They don't care if they don't have home game sevens, they don't care about that.
- [90:54]
B
They're so much better than they were last year. If they're whole, Jamal Murray looks better. They have a deeper group. Brown is getting a little bit better. I think the coaching staff's in a better spot and they brought the Thunder to the brink last year, so they sure did. Nobody wants to see them in the playoffs if they end up at 7 or 8 or whatever, dude.
- [91:17]
A
Like, well, let's end on the Thunder because we said this is going to be an hour almost at an hour and a half. Thunder 30 and 7, 4 and 4 in their last 8.13.3 net rating still, which is still number one. I have my theory for I don't want to say what's wrong, but what's maybe a mildly alarming what's your theory, dude?
- [91:40]
B
I think the NBA changed on December 12th or 13th when the first spurs win happened in Vegas. I think that changed the temperature in the Western Conference a week later. Bill this is sort of the canonical moment of the season. Finch, who hates the Thunder, has publicly said he hates how the Thunder play goes into that game in Minnesota and he's ready to explode. And sure enough, he gets a chance. He gets ejected. And you know, The Thunder are 6 and 6 in their last 12. But I looked at the numbers and the craziest thing I found is that Shay Gill Alexander, since that spurs game, he's gone from the 5th most fouled player in the NBA to the 31st most fouled player in the NBA. His free throws are way down. His ability to draw fouls has magically decreased substantially since peaking before then. And J Dub is the other thing. He has not clicked in with this group the way they expected he was in my notes. So between SGA sort of reduced free throw line activity and J Dub's lack of sort of cohesion with this group, simply put, this isn't the juggernaut that I thought they were December 10th. This is not the juggernaut that was what, 24 and 1. And I think it's good for the league. I still think they're the favorite. Don't get mad at me, Thunder fans. But I think this is just like they've come back to earth a little bit.
- [93:13]
A
I still have them as the favorite. I think Jalen Williams, I'm betting on him to come back and be fine. But he has not looked the same and he should have gotten better, not worse this season. I had him as like the 13th best player coming in this season. Now you wouldn't have him top 25, most impactful. From what we've seen, the fear if you're a Thunder fan is although you did win the title, so there's not that much fear. And you have a million draft picks and you have the best foundation winning in the league. The fear would be that 24 and one start, was that a little like when Phoenix started really well that year after they made the finals and then they kind of peaked in December or the warriors when they had the 25 game winning streak to start the season. They win 73, but then they don't win the finals. Here's what I'm looking at. I think it's as simple as this. When they don't make threes, they're pretty beatable. Now I went back and I looked through their six losses, four of which I watched the three San Antonio games. Two of them, they were 24% from three and 25% from three. And the third one, they gave up 130. Spurs made everything right.
- [94:22]
B
Yeah.
- [94:22]
A
Minnesota game, 28% from three. The Phoenix loss a couple nights ago, 31% from three. And they got out, rebounded by 20. And then Charlotte last night, 28% by three, got out, rebounded by 19. My question, big picture with Dort, who last year was 41% for three and is now at 33. Caruso, who's 35 last year, is now at 30. My big question is, is the league becoming better enough offensively that you can't get away with as much Dort and Caruso as they were able to get away with last year that you actually need a little more. Even though their offense is, it's up there, it's in. I think it's probably in the top eight, but just in some of these games. Is that why this is not going to be a team that wins 74 games because their offense is not reliable enough?
- [95:10]
B
Yeah. Last night, I mean, the most head scratching result of the year in my opinion, they lose at home to the Hornets. And it was again, they get killed. They could not make their perimeter shots. They lose confidence. The announcers are saying shit like, oh, there's a lid on the rim. They just can't get it. And it's like, yeah, that's, that's it. And if you look at the numbers they have the.
- [95:28]
A
It's worse than that though because it's like they're, it's. This guy's open for a reason. Threes that they're missing Caruso. Nobody's guarding him anymore.
- [95:36]
B
Right.
- [95:36]
A
That's a real issue for them. Anyway, I interrupted you. No, no, that's a right.
- [95:39]
B
And I remember noticing the spurs really doing that. Caruso beat us and I think he was like, oh, for 12 or one for 13, he finally made one and garbage time or something. But that is something to watch because the offense, Bill, in this 12 game, I'm not going to call it a total slump, but by their standards it's a slump. Is 22nd in the NBA over the last 12 games. We haven't seen them down there. And any. You can't slice the pie any anywhere last season and find a stretch like that.
- [96:07]
A
And the rebounding is a little bit.
- [96:09]
B
Of a concern and Hartenstein's out and that's a big part of it.
- [96:13]
A
Yeah.
- [96:13]
B
But I do think to your point, if the, if there's a crack in the foundation, it's on the offensive end of the court, specifically beyond the three point arc.
- [96:24]
A
I think when you have guys who you used to rely on in a real way who are now not being guarded, it's a red flag. The Celtics played the Clippers Saturday night, the game I went to, and they were like, John Collins, Chris Dunn, tomb, knock yourself out. You're gonna be alone in the corner and if you make em, God bless you. And Collins made a bunch in the first half. They were like, this is. We're gonna stop Kawhi. We're going to give you this shot. Take it. And teams are doing that now with okc and then, you know, when they play San Antonio, who has Plastic man in the middle right taking away Shay's mid range game and they're not guarding Caruso. When you don't have that second guy out there who's supposed to be Jalen Williams, that's where they become a little more beatable. I'm surprised though. I really thought, I thought they were such a juggernaut and so in tune with who they were. I really thought it was going to be like hard to believe when anybody beats them. And now I'm like, not surprised. No, you made the keyboard. Hartenstein's been out. Does hurt them from a rebounding, but I do think Presti will maybe tinker with this team a little bit. And I wonder whether it's like, could Dort be the guy or Caruso? Do you trade one of those guys, move Kayson Wallace into that role, play Mitchell Moore and try to use a Dort contract and a pick and try to get somebody really Good to add. I don't know.
- [97:48]
B
It's just crazy how fast things change. I remember when I was talking about the 241 thunder and how great they were, I was on with Zach and I said, hey, a year ago at this time, the Celtics were clear favors to win the NBA championship. That ended up being the Thunders.
- [98:03]
A
It just.
- [98:04]
B
It happens really fast. I'm not saying that's what's happening here, but just as a fan of the NBA, it's a lot more interesting when there isn't this absolute buzzsaw destroying everybody at the top of the league. And we can start to see a path for Denver or San Antonio or Houston to at least give these guys a 7. Gamer Dortz.
- [98:23]
D
Yeah.
- [98:24]
A
Somehow Dortz was born in 1999, which I don't fully understand. It feels like he's like 35.
- [98:30]
B
It's Canadian years.
- [98:31]
A
Caruso is 32 though.
- [98:33]
B
Yeah.
- [98:33]
A
So, you know, if you're going to decide we need more, we. We need more offense from one of those two guys. It's upgrade time. That would be the spot. I think it's too early for them to panic, though. I'm not. I'm not panicking if I'm.
- [98:45]
B
Yes, that's what I would like to end on as well. They. They deserve to be the favorites. They are still pretty big juggernaut in.
- [98:52]
A
This league, but there's a blueprint a little bit now. Fucking rebound, right? And as dumb as this sounds, try to outscore them and leave Caruso alone and maybe he'll go 0 for 9, 0 for 10, 1 for 10. And that's, I guess, the blueprint. I still feel like Jaylen. I believe in Jalen Williams. I think the way this gets fixed is he goes up a level because we know he has it in him.
- [99:18]
B
And has there been an adjustment to the foul baiting stuff or is that a byproduct of something else? Like, I got to look at the numbers. I don't know if it's an officiating thing or if people are figuring out how to defend him, but that's.
- [99:32]
A
Listen, they can't figure out fucking James Harden still. He got five calls in the game I went to Saturday night. We're like, oh my God, you guys are still falling for this. James Harden just sees four people in the paint and drives toward them like he's Derek Henry trying to get a first down. He's. I'm just going to flail my.
- [99:48]
B
The giant beard gets tilted up into the sky and the refs are just they have no choice but to to blow the whistle at that point.
- [99:55]
A
I'm sure he's a nice guy. I just can't watch him anymore. Like I hate watching him in person. I just hate it. He's my least favorite player to watch because I've just 15 years of watching him just try to get fouls. I just don't enjoy watching it. I hope he's in a trade. I don't like it. I just don't like watching it. Anyway. Kurt Goldsberry, a pleasure as always. Say hi to everybody in Texas.
- [100:18]
B
Thank you, Bill.
- [100:20]
A
All right, we're taping this on a Monday afternoon. We just did our rewatchables. Mailbag. Craig Horlbeck, Chris Ryan, all three of us have teams in the NFL tournament, as Mike Vrabel calls it. Do you hear that? He keeps calling it the tournament.
- [100:32]
C
Why?
- [100:32]
A
It's like, well, now that we got the tournament, win or go home. I don't know. Just the Mike Vrabel thing. Okay, this is a how we feeling about our teams? Check. Craig Horbeck, Giant Steelers fan. Now Giant Aaron Rodgers fan. Make the case.
- [100:46]
D
I have been all year. I'm tickled to be in the playoffs with him. What a fantastic close of the season. I think he's been underratedly great this entire year and all the off field stuff and people not liking Aaron Rodgers anymore has colored the fact that he's been fucking great this year.
- [100:59]
A
You're going with great.
- [101:01]
D
Yes. For a 42 year old coming off an Achilles, I think he's been very, very good.
- [101:07]
C
So you were talking on Fantasy last night about that Ravens game and I really liked what you were saying because I noticed it too the way he was essentially like building a castle out of sand every snap where he's like calling out his protections. He's got three guys off the street playing wide receiver.
- [101:24]
D
His helmet wasn't working, couldn't even talk to Arthur Smith and he's drawn routes on his hand to Adam to pro bowlers from 2017. The fact that he won that game with Adam Thielen, Marquez, Valdez, Scantling and Scotty Miller is incredible.
- [101:38]
C
It is a kind of weird like what if of the last four years or whatever it's been where like if he had just landed in a better situation than New York, like I wonder what the last couple of years of his career, playing career specifically would have been like.
- [101:50]
D
I also think he just played it right this year. He's been incredibly complimentary of Mike Tomlin of the city of Pittsburgh, the fans. Why he wanted to be with this organization, the leadership. It seems like since he's been in the league, players like him. Like, whether or not fans do, players seem to really like him when he goes. When they played the jets, like, Breeze hall is still tweeting about Aaron Rodgers. I'm on board. I want him back for next year.
- [102:14]
A
Want him back?
- [102:15]
D
Yeah. What else are we going to do?
- [102:17]
A
I was just looking at his stats. He threw for over 3,300 yards, 24 TDs, seven picks played every game.
- [102:26]
C
Yeah.
- [102:26]
A
Yesterday was his masterpiece, though, because I couldn't believe how bad his receivers were. And they were talking about it during the game. Like, he just wants people that knows what he can do at the line of scrimmage and basically, like, smart people who aren't good at football anymore.
- [102:39]
C
There was one point where he had Thielen. Like, he would tell Thielen what to tell the other wide receiver. And I was like, this is wild, man. Like this.
- [102:46]
A
Yeah. It kind of helped that the Ravens had no pass rush, and then Kyle Hamilton collided with another guy in the team.
- [102:52]
D
Yeah.
- [102:53]
A
At the perfect time of the game. I don't know if you know, or maybe it was karma for not having Metcalf, because Metcalf was a complete game changer for them. He was like, four free plays.
- [103:03]
D
Yeah.
- [103:04]
A
A game that they could just get something out of both of their horses.
- [103:07]
D
Metcalf and Darnell Washington. Not in this game. And it was a huge deal. Like, now, I feel, honestly, the Texans, I think, for the Steelers are one of the better matchups they could have gotten. Like, that's another. Obviously, the defense is great, but, like, I don't trust CJ Stroud. I think this game's going to be in Pittsburgh on Monday night. I think this is, like, a solid matchup for the Steelers.
- [103:25]
C
It's going to be a really good game.
- [103:25]
D
I also think, like, the extra. I mean, there's games on Saturday, Sunday and Monday. Rogers getting the extra day or two. Yeah. I think is a big deal. T.J. watt getting the extra day or two, I think is a big deal. And the Steelers have that ridiculous home record on Monday night. They haven't lost since 1991 at home on Monday night. Really? Yeah. They also haven't won a playoff game since 2016.
- [103:45]
A
Well, there's also the voodoo that they've had all year. Yesterday was probably the peak of it. Oh, then maybe the five turnover game with the Pats was pretty good, too.
- [103:52]
D
But, I mean, I was on record like, six weeks ago saying they should fire Mike Tomlin. So this team is, it's Met Caps.
- [103:57]
C
Back to the playoffs. Darnell Washington.
- [103:59]
D
No, don't think so.
- [104:01]
A
But you have Kevin Gainwell, the most explosive pass catching running back in the history of football.
- [104:05]
D
Gainwell and Warren. Yeah. Are Jameer Gibbs and David Montgomery in my mind.
- [104:10]
A
The thing is he's so good at bending the rules during a game and just being like Resell and I talked about it on Sunday night. Like the, the Friar move pass route where he runs to the back of the end zone and then just kind of does the James Harden into the safety, just kind of flails and hopes to get a pass interference. It feels like they run plays specifically to try to get past interferences.
- [104:33]
D
Yeah, he's doing all the old man, like, post game moves. Like, like Roger.
- [104:37]
A
Totally.
- [104:38]
D
He's trying to catch like 12 men on the field. Like there's no other quarterback still doing that.
- [104:41]
A
Yeah, it's calling. He, he doesn't care about when he uses timeouts. He's just like, I don't really like what I'm saying there. Timeout.
- [104:47]
C
Right.
- [104:48]
A
It's like 15 minutes left in the game. But I, I, I gotta say, I thought there was no chance this was gonna work. I thought he was completely washed last year. He didn't want to be hit. Now you think of them as a home dog. I couldn't agree more on Houston.
- [105:01]
C
I just couldn't believe also last night. I mean, I know there was so many twists at the end of that game, but there was for the final touchdown drive that they had. I can't believe he's that age. And after everything that's happened and I'm still like, that's too much time for Rogers.
- [105:14]
D
Dude. There, there was two minutes left with no timeouts. It only took him 55 seconds and no timeouts to go score with Thielen, MBS, Calvin Austin and Scotty Miller.
- [105:24]
A
I mean, I mean, he had the G leaguers in the secondary, I guess would be the only reason, but that it's, I think they really fucked up these field position things because I've been thinking about that. I'm really worried about Jacksonville for the Patriots, if we can get by the Chargers. Because I think Jacksonville's really good. They had this kicker that if you're at midfield, he can make a field goal, Right. So you could go up three, three minute with three minutes left, two minutes left, whatever. And they like turn it to the 32. They go, they get one first down and they're in field goal range. I don't like it. I don't think it's a. A. I don't think they did a good thing with this.
- [106:02]
D
I agree. Because it's compounded with not. They changed the kickoff rules where you started the 35 yard line. And then also they've allowed these kicking balls this year where basically teams are allowed to prepare the football.
- [106:11]
A
Yeah.
- [106:11]
D
All season long when they used to just get like the day of the game. And so now the footballs are so much more worn in. So kickers are way more accurate with them and they can kick them further. So it's like that with the 35 yard line thing. I hate it. I want to move the. I'm okay with the kicking balls because it's like if these kickers can be more accurate, like, this is their actual ability we're seeing. And I'm cool with that.
- [106:29]
C
Sure.
- [106:29]
D
But I think we need to move the field position back.
- [106:32]
A
I'd like the 25, not the 35. Like, if I'm at the 25 with the way the kickers can kick the ball now. Yeah. I at least have to go 35 yards.
- [106:44]
C
I wonder if that gets offensive by everybody going for it on fourth down now, though. Like, why not?
- [106:49]
D
It's just made it so much easier to score points. I mean, like, I remember there was a game, I think it was when Philip Rivers, his first game back against Seattle or whoever it was, it was Philip Rivers, who's 45 years old and hasn't played in six years, and he needed like 17 yards to get a field goal. And he. Of course he did. And I'm like, Philip Rivers shouldn't be able to easily bring the team back and score points in the final seconds of a game. Like, this is too easy.
- [107:11]
A
Yeah. I feel like we've lost the concept of field position because when field position actually comes into play in a game, you really feel it now, whether they be these games, whether it happens to your team or whether a team you bet on or picked. And it feels like all of a sudden they just can't get out of their own 15. And over and over again, they're 15 and they just can't get over the hump of getting out of there. And it's like, yeah, this should be what football is like more often than, I just gave up a touchdown. I'm already on the 34 and I need to go two first downs and I'm back in the game.
- [107:41]
D
The problem is, is the NFL wants kick returns. They want kickoffs, and you have to put the ball at the 35 to incentivize people kicking the ball in inbounds so that they're.
- [107:50]
C
So that they're not right doing the touchback.
- [107:51]
D
So it's kind of like a rock and a hard place thing. But I think they need to figure out the kickoff situation starting at the 35 is ludicrous to me.
- [107:58]
A
Now I would get rid of field goals completely in overtime.
- [108:02]
C
They have to score.
- [108:03]
A
They're just gone. Gotta score. It's gotta be a touchdown. You gotta get a two point and that's it. And in the playoffs, I think that would be a great role.
- [108:11]
D
Every.
- [108:12]
A
Every possession or manner.
- [108:13]
C
The drama of last night, of Boswell missing and then loop missing.
- [108:17]
A
We were talking about that before we started taping the mailbag. I hope everybody learns now that you're never close enough on a night game when you're playing in a place like Pittsburgh. Like 12 seconds left on the 20. They're on the 22. It was seven more yards.
- [108:33]
D
It was going to be a 42 yarder. 12 seconds left with a timeout. They could have easily thrown a 7 yard pass and made it a 35 yarder.
- [108:40]
A
Instead, play action. Go for the kill.
- [108:42]
D
Yeah. Lamar takes a. A negative 2 yard kneel and makes it a 44 yarder. Like on the road outdoors in Pittsburgh.
- [108:49]
A
For a rookie is never like that. Even when it works out for your team or the team you bet on. It still makes me. I hate relying on these dudes. And then this poor guy's life is ruined.
- [108:59]
D
And to Rico, like laying that up when he's like, they searched far and wide for a kid who could deliver in this exact moment.
- [109:06]
A
I thought he was great. I really thought they did an awesome job. You're not a Brady guy as an announcer. Yeah, no, I'm not. But what are your critiques? I agree with you. I just want to hear your take. As somebody who didn't grow up with it.
- [109:19]
D
Where do I start? I think he's incredibly stiff and robotic. I think he doesn't know how to. What words are going to come out of his mouth when he starts a sentence. And he's so much better whenever you see him on a podcast or like Coward or Eisen or wherever he goes. He's so smooth and natural. And the second it's ironic that Tom Brady shutters when the lights are on because it's the opposite of who he is on the field. But he is just so stiff and wooden and it's just.
- [109:44]
C
It's bad across the board because everybody was like, I Think he's gonna have a hard time being candid if he's the co owner of the Raiders and has this involvement. I don't think he's had any problem being can. And if anything, like, I find his sports media appearances to be pretty. Pretty on. Like, he's really upfront. Yeah. But it does feel like in the. The booth, it's not that it's moving too fast, but that he doesn't have, like, the same level of insight that he does when he's got a little bit more time and the lights aren't as bright. I don't know. It's kind of funny.
- [110:14]
D
He doesn't seem relaxed. Like, Aikman is just hanging out. You feel like you're at a bar with Aikman, Brady.
- [110:19]
A
Same same thing with Collinsworth. Like, they. Yeah, they wait for the. There's a pace to how they do it. They don't need to feel like they have to talk just to say something. They don't have to feel like I'm making words. Words are now coming out of my mouth. Like, you never feel that way with those.
- [110:32]
C
They also have, like, things that they're interested in, things that they hate. Aikman's obviously like. Like, got his, like, bugaboos that he. Who, like, tee off on. Brady hasn't gotten there yet with that stuff.
- [110:42]
D
No, he. He also hasn't figured out his announcer voice. Like, he's. You know how sometimes when you record a podcast remotely and you have the headphones on you, you kind of like, yell loud all the time?
- [110:51]
B
Yeah.
- [110:51]
D
Brady's kind of doing that where he feels like he's like, actually speaking to millions of people who are in a room with him. And he, like, always has this kind of like, yell cadence to him when Aikman and Collinsworth are just like, like, laying back and talking.
- [111:02]
A
So you do this on the fantasy football show, but do your Brady impression.
- [111:07]
D
Baker Mayfield here. KB drops back. Just. Just can't find anyone. KB and ends up throwing the ball away. Just a brutal play for the Tampa Bay offense.
- [111:19]
C
It's just repeating what Burkhardt has just said. But, like, as analysis.
- [111:23]
A
Yeah, I also. He. So he does that. But he, like, he did this during the Lions Bears game where he does. He kind of assumes this importance to things that aren't that meaningful or obviously, this is a massive, massive play for the Lions. It's like they're out of the playoffs. There's a massive play. These guys are going to Aruba tomorrow. But then I think the thing that's frustrating about him is there'll be these moments during the game when all of a sudden for like 45 seconds he's really good and he like, when he brings in his own experiences with stuff and all of a sudden it's like, oh, that's Tom Brady.
- [112:01]
C
Do you think that there's a majority of football fans are like, it's just pretty cool that Tom Brady's calling this game?
- [112:06]
D
Maybe. I can't tell if I'm inside of.
- [112:08]
C
A percent of people watching a football game or just like, that's pretty cool.
- [112:11]
D
Probably. Yes.
- [112:13]
C
Because I think we get caught up on like, that should be Greg Olson. It's. He's so much better or whatever. But like, I wonder if like a lot of people are like, is that Tom Brady awesome?
- [112:22]
A
I just feel like it's Collinsworth and Aikman and then it drops off and there's a couple other guys. I thought J.J. watt was pretty good this year. I didn't mind when he did the games. Olson was okay during the Miami Pats game yesterday, but he's with Joe Davis, who I'm just not a fan of.
- [112:37]
D
Also, man, what is aged worse than everybody being afraid that Brady being in these pre game meetings was going to help the Raiders?
- [112:43]
A
It's the funniest thing. I mean, they already fired Pete Carroll.
- [112:46]
D
Yeah.
- [112:46]
A
I would argue he's been a disaster. If he's like the. For the Raiders, this couldn't have gone worse. Plus taking Ashton Genti the sixth pick when you can't block.
- [112:55]
D
Yeah.
- [112:55]
A
I mean, like, that's tough.
- [112:56]
D
You gotta fire him just because if you're gonna rebuild, you're the number one pick in the draft. You're probably gonna take like Mendoza or Dante Moore. You can't start over with Pete Carroll, who's probably going to be there for like a year or two more anyway.
- [113:06]
C
I just, I just, I'm not entirely sure football's gonna work in Vegas.
- [113:10]
D
Fernando Mendoza might be the worst fit in the city of Las Vegas that I've ever seen.
- [113:15]
A
But it might.
- [113:15]
C
That might not be what they need. Like, they need a guy who's like, I have no interest in blackjack.
- [113:20]
A
He's like, what is roulette? It's black and red.
- [113:23]
C
Like, I just want to. I just want to play football.
- [113:25]
D
Yeah. He's like, I just go to the sphere and I play football.
- [113:28]
B
Yeah.
- [113:28]
A
He strikes me as like. From the producers of Russell Wilson, we bring you Mendoza.
- [113:33]
D
He's. He's Kirk.
- [113:36]
B
Hey.
- [113:36]
A
Yeah, it's a weird one. How do you feel about your team.
- [113:39]
C
I was going to ask you about this.
- [113:41]
A
I want to ask you about this. You're an Eagles fan. You've won two Super Bowls. I want to know where are we.
- [113:45]
C
At with the statute of limitations about when you can complain about a team that's just won a championship? Because, like, this is a big.
- [113:51]
A
Supposed to be five years.
- [113:52]
D
Yeah.
- [113:53]
C
And that was like, a different time.
- [113:55]
D
It's been 10 months.
- [113:56]
C
But no, it's. And I think it's just a very specific thing that I. I have a complaint about, which is that the offensive playbook and the execution of that playbook. It's very vanilla. It's a hard watch. It makes. It's a bummer to.
- [114:08]
A
It's Hard watch is the wrong word. It's an unnecessarily hard watch.
- [114:12]
D
Yeah.
- [114:13]
C
For the.
- [114:13]
A
I watch them and I'm just like, what. What is so hard about, like, playing with pace and. And using your receivers and using Sega? You have all these toys.
- [114:21]
C
Also. It's like the Kremlin, where it's like. It's just very unclear as to, like, what's. What they want to call versus what Jalen hurts, feels comfortable running. Like, there's like, two competing narratives about it. Yesterday, then they played the Commanders again. I'm glad we don't have to play Commanders again. And I'd rather play the fucking Niners than the Commanders again. Yesterday was like a big thing where there is a contingent of Eagles fans of which I may or may not have participated, anticipated that were like, is it Tanner time?
- [114:48]
D
Would.
- [114:48]
C
Would Tanner McKee run this offense more like, on, like, on time and with tempo? And clearly not. Although obviously didn't have the skill players out there. Once Devonte said that was like when.
- [114:59]
A
Kip Pardue was Sunshine, Sunshine Ronnie Bass. And remember the times it's like, is this guy an A lister? And then he was in. Driven.
- [115:07]
D
Yeah.
- [115:07]
A
He was like, oh, guess that.
- [115:08]
C
But, yeah, it's just been an irritating season. It was like the first half of the season was like AJ Versus Jalen. Then the second half of the season, we've just been spamming AJ but the offense hasn't looked that much better. And I feel like every pass, the receivers are running back to the ball.
- [115:24]
A
Yeah.
- [115:24]
C
There's no such thing as yak in Philadelphia and Saquon.
- [115:28]
A
You run a trick play all year.
- [115:30]
C
I. I wouldn't even know what. What that would be. No, we haven't. There's. There's barely any motion.
- [115:35]
D
No. Yeah. There's so many offensive statistics that just show how boring the offense is. I think there's like, A.J. brown has run like the least amount of snaps from the slot of any receiver in the NFL this year, which is just like the easiest way to get your best guy. The ball is like, move him around and he's just in the same.
- [115:50]
A
It's one thing I've appreciated with the Pats this year is that they don't really have any great weapons other than the 50% of the time Diggs plays. Henry's a good tight end. He's probably a top eight tight end. The running backs are pretty good, but the way McDaniels uses everybody, you feel like he's put real thought into. Oh, and then the second quarter, we're going to run that fake reverse. And I, when I watch the Eagles, I don't see any of that. I just feels like they just want to take 35 seconds of play. Go slow, methodical, kill the clock.
- [116:19]
C
For some reason it's like this big and it's like, why do you want.
- [116:21]
A
To kill the clock?
- [116:22]
C
If you watch the Hard Knocks, he, Sirianni runs through like this. Like, if we win the turnover battle, we're like 57.
- [116:30]
D
That's the whole thing.
- [116:31]
A
Yeah.
- [116:31]
C
And so it's essentially like his bet is like, if we win the turnover battle, if we don't give the ball away. And I gotta Admit, watching Tanner McKeith throw picks yesterday, I was like, oh, this sucks.
- [116:40]
D
Yeah.
- [116:41]
C
Like, we just drove all the way down the field and he threw a fucking pick on the one yard line. Like, this is not. I'm glad I don't have to watch this every week. But there, there is just something that's just really grinding and we're just in a spot where we have like a CEO coach. Whether or not he should be like a CEO or not, but he thinks that he has like an offensive system. Most teams have the play caller coach. We have lost our OC every year, either because they get hired away like Steichen and Kellen Moore, or we fire them like Brian Johnson and probably Kevin Patullo. And it's just a really tough spot to be in because you're constantly reshuffling. And I feel like, I, I don't know.
- [117:18]
D
I mean, like, I, I, I.
- [117:19]
C
But I have no, I have nothing to complain about. Every other team would probably trade places.
- [117:23]
A
Like, it's, I feel like you're allowed to complain even after you won a Super Bowl. If the team has so much potential and you're not reaching any of it.
- [117:31]
D
It'S the endless cycle of the Eagles have a really good season and then they allow and then so their coordinator gets hired somewhere else and then Sirianni is allowed to bring to pick his own play caller. That play caller sucks. They get rid of him and then Howie's like, I'm picking the play caller. They bring in like Kellen Moore. They're good. And then the same thing happens again.
- [117:49]
B
Yeah.
- [117:50]
C
And every year Jalen Hurts has to get to know another offensive coordinator. Now, like, I, I, I just wish it was more entertaining. That's all I'm saying.
- [117:59]
A
Yeah, I guess part of what I don't understand about football and neither do you guys, probably because we didn't play is, is it I played freshman year in high school. Well, is this, I mean, if we're like playing NFL, is it this complicated when you get a new coordinator? Is it like, is it like Drake May had a new offensive coordinator from last year to this year and it was okay? Like, should it be this every time? They always blame this when the offense doesn't look good. It's like, like, well, you know, hurts and it's a new guy. It's like, how hard is it?
- [118:28]
D
That's a BS complaint.
- [118:29]
C
I think we do a lot of like, if you're like do ball knower side of football media and you're watching like a lot of like all 22 breakdown stuff, I, I, I can attest it really only matters if people can block. And yeah, Saquon Barkley has just been running into the back of his offensive line all year and the last three years, whether it was Saquon or Miles Sanders or whoever gain. Well, we were a buzz saw and like dudes were just getting like six yards a carry and nobody. And so that set up the pass and now we're like, we're just the most like conservative offense because we're not actually getting anything on the ground.
- [119:02]
A
So, you know, I'm going to do all my picks on Thursday, hoping to change my luck. I did not have a good season this year, but I still feel like I have a, I don't know, I'm weirdly confident for the playoffs. I think this was the one team San Francisco could have played in round one that they actually could probably beat.
- [119:17]
D
Oh, Philly.
- [119:18]
A
Yeah.
- [119:19]
D
Oh, I think this is a tough matchup for.
- [119:21]
A
Well, every matchup's a tough matchup for them. Their defense sucks. But I was thinking about it from their side, like, my defense sucks. I'd want to play Philadelphia because they're going to be so slow and conservative anyway. That's actually like pretty good for my defense. And they're going to be able to score on them offensively, I think. Maybe, but I don't know. I didn't like any other matchup for them.
- [119:40]
D
No. I mean, the NFC is really good, but flying to Philly, cold weather, outdoors. Brock Purdy's beat up. Trent Williams is beat up with the Eagles defense. I think it's kind of a tough draw.
- [119:49]
A
Is Brock Purdy beat up because he has that cut in his hand.
- [119:52]
D
He. He hurt himself on the last play of the game. I think he's going to play. He's okay, but I don't know.
- [119:56]
C
There's some major.
- [119:56]
A
Nobody believes in us going on.
- [119:58]
C
I think the Niners probably think that the Eagles stole a Super bowl appearance from them.
- [120:03]
A
Yeah. Make that case.
- [120:05]
C
I know that. I know Niners fans who were like you guys, decimating, taking out Brock and then. I can't. Was it Trey? Lance was his backup. I can't remember who the backup was.
- [120:14]
D
Josh Johnson.
- [120:15]
B
No.
- [120:15]
C
It wound up being Josh Johnson. That were. We may have been playing against McCaffrey and Wildcat at the end. Like, I can't even remember.
- [120:20]
D
Invented. It's why the NFL now the emergency third quarterback rule was created because of that game. The NFC Championship.
- [120:26]
C
That's right. So I think the Niners still feel like we stole. The Eagles stole one from them. And I think they are going to be playing with a big chip on their shoulder. That being said, I think you're right. Like west coast to east coast in Philly, like tough.
- [120:39]
A
Our starting defense is Niners offense is really good, though.
- [120:41]
C
Rocking. Like our. Our defense is really good.
- [120:44]
D
Yeah.
- [120:44]
A
It's a suspicious line.
- [120:46]
B
What is it?
- [120:47]
A
It's like Philly by three and a half.
- [120:49]
D
Yeah.
- [120:49]
A
And San Francisco sucks on defense. Like, they're legitimately bad. It is interesting though. Seattle only scored, what, 13 on that was the final score of that game. 13. Yeah. They got three.
- [120:59]
D
13. Three.
- [120:59]
A
Yeah. I don't know. I think they're scary. I'm. I'm always scared of teams in the playoffs that can move the ball because everything slows down. Everything gets weird in the playoffs. I'm looking at that one. I just don't like the way Philly looks. I thought it was so weird that they didn't care about the two seed.
- [121:15]
C
I think it's strange too, but apparently the players were okay with it and I think. I think people would have been losing their shit if. If devonte Smith or AJ Or Saquon Or Jalen hurts had gotten hurt in that game, which totally could have happened. Brock Purdy hurting himself in the last fucking play.
- [121:30]
A
Yeah, I don't know.
- [121:31]
B
I.
- [121:32]
A
If I get to two seed, I get to play Green Bay and then I get the second game at home and it's just easier for me to make the super bowl at the very least. Like, why can't you play them for an hour, see what's going on in the Chicago game? And it's like, holy shit.
- [121:48]
C
Because yesterday during the game, the play by play guy, who I can't remember who it was, was like advocating for Sirianni to like, maybe bring in starters in. In like the third quarter. I was like, that's not how football works. Like, yeah, these guys can't just like come in cold in the third quarter and play against the Commanders. Like, they'll, they'll get killed.
- [122:08]
D
I just think Philly is like, they are built for winning a playoff game. Like, where they just drag you down to the mud. It's low scoring.
- [122:14]
A
I'm gonna land there by Thursday. Right now I'm. I'm being seduced by the sexy San Francisco angle.
- [122:19]
C
I was, I was watching it yesterday with a buddy and I was like, if the Eagles beat the this weekend, I'll shut up about Nick Sirianni forever. Because obviously it's not pleasant, it's not fun, but whatever he's doing is how you win football games.
- [122:31]
A
It's weird when you have a. Just a really frustrating team. Like the 2023 Celtics were like this for me. The mar. Last Marcus smart season where they almost made the finals, but I just hated watching them all year. Whereas this year I love, I love the Celtics. I feel like there's a really fun Eagles team in there. Like a team I would want to watch where it's. If you're going to pay $60 million for two receivers and then it's like you begrudgingly using them, what's the point of that?
- [122:57]
C
I just think that line, the offensive line's just in a transition moment and, you know, it's post. Kelsey Lane, Johnson's been hurt. Leonard Dickerson has been on and off hurt. And I just think that they, they can't block. And because they can't block, nothing works.
- [123:11]
D
So I think that's right.
- [123:13]
C
It's almost impressive that our record is.
- [123:15]
A
As good as it is. Craig was a virgin the last time the Steelers had a really good playoff moment.
- [123:20]
D
What year was that?
- [123:21]
C
2016. Freshman football.
- [123:22]
D
No, I was good then.
- [123:23]
A
2016.
- [123:24]
D
Yeah.
- [123:25]
A
Is that. Did they win a playoff game there.
- [123:27]
B
Yeah.
- [123:28]
A
I was going back to 2008. James Harrison.
- [123:30]
D
I was a virgin in 2008. That's right.
- [123:33]
A
Right? It is.
- [123:35]
C
You didn't look at a girl who like, it's the financial. It's the housing crisis.
- [123:38]
D
Let's go. I was 14.
- [123:39]
B
Yeah.
- [123:40]
A
16. You lost to us.
- [123:43]
D
God, I can't even remember.
- [123:44]
A
I think we waxed you.
- [123:46]
D
Yeah.
- [123:46]
A
That was the last time.
- [123:47]
D
Yeah.
- [123:47]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's weird. The Stewarts haven't really felt like they had a chance to win a Super Bowl.
- [123:52]
D
Was that the bullshit Heath Miller game when he caught that pass?
- [123:56]
A
And that's regular season. Oh, yeah. But you keep Tomlin.
- [124:01]
D
Yeah. Tomlin will come back.
- [124:03]
A
Were you excited about that or no?
- [124:04]
D
I am now.
- [124:05]
C
Do you think it's Tomlin and Arthur Smith come back and they'll have some continuity?
- [124:09]
D
Yeah, I think they need to get a new defensive coordinator. I think they have the most basic, boring, predictable defense in the league. I'm like, Raheem Morris getting fired. Raheem Morris and Tomlin are buddies. They were together in Tampa. They did an episode of Flying Coach together. Get Raheem to be the D.C. in.
- [124:23]
C
Pittsburgh, because that's pretty scary.
- [124:25]
D
Yeah.
- [124:25]
A
Raheem was, like, overqualified D.C. underqualified head coach. But everybody said as a D.C. he was awesome.
- [124:31]
D
But, like, well, the Steelers have the most expensive defense in the league. Something, and it's, like, not good.
- [124:36]
A
That was the craziest thing in this season to me, is that Atlanta only went 8, 9. Didn't win that division. By far, had the most talent.
- [124:42]
C
Yeah.
- [124:42]
A
There's no question they were the best team.
- [124:44]
D
They had one loss to the jets, and if they didn't do that, they would have won the division.
- [124:47]
C
And there were cousins available earlier in the season.
- [124:50]
A
Yeah.
- [124:51]
C
You wonder what would have happened.
- [124:53]
A
Oh, Mike.
- [124:54]
C
Oh, Mike.
- [124:56]
D
I think we overestimated or we underestimated what another year of recovery from an Achilles tear will do. Kirk looks so much better. Rogers looks so much better. I think, you know, keep that in.
- [125:05]
C
Mind for Jason Tatum's Valentine's Day return.
- [125:08]
D
That's right.
- [125:09]
A
Oh, man. I just need, like, 15 minutes a game from Tatum. 15 minutes a game add to this juggernaut Celtics thing. Yeah. Just need him to take the Baylor Showerman minutes.
- [125:19]
D
For seven minutes, he's just Sean Livingston.
- [125:23]
A
We're just gonna. We're just gonna sneak him in. Just like. Just shoot some threes, grab a couple rebounds. Ready to go. Who Was your fantasy MVP of the year?
- [125:30]
D
It's McCaffrey. It's gotta be for. For what?
- [125:33]
A
You agree with my theory that if you pick McCaffrey, you probably won your draft or made the finals.
- [125:37]
D
Yeah. And just like the, the risk reward of McCaffrey of like, if you were like brave enough to take him in the first round of your draft. And then the, the game one opening day, I think it was Eagles, Cowboys that day. There was a report that came out that he had a calf injury and he missed practice.
- [125:52]
C
Yeah.
- [125:52]
D
And everybody lost their. And he played every single game and ended up having just as good of a year. Fantasy wise. I think he's had like the exact same points per game as he did that 2023 season where he was amazing. It's unbelievable that he had bilateral Achilles tendonitis, came back and had the same year as he did in 2023.
- [126:08]
A
We should do post football. We should do the. The best fantasy players of the last 35 years on my pod with. With you and the.
- [126:17]
D
Danny's 35 years might be hard for me to contribute the first half.
- [126:21]
B
You're pre.
- [126:22]
C
You're from your virginity on.
- [126:23]
A
No, we could do.
- [126:24]
D
It's a long time.
- [126:25]
A
We could just look at the stats. We could print out like whatever the numbers were.
- [126:29]
D
Okay.
- [126:29]
A
Because I'm telling you, Jerry rice in the 90s was like the old timer.
- [126:33]
C
Back to like there's just.
- [126:35]
A
Because the reason I thought of that was because I think McCaffrey is a first ballot fantasy guy now.
- [126:39]
D
Yeah.
- [126:40]
A
Like, when we think of like that last level of like not only great, but great for like eight, nine years. Like, Tomlinson was like that.
- [126:46]
D
Oh, Tomlinson.
- [126:47]
A
Jerry Rice was like that.
- [126:48]
D
Lt was the guy. When I was growing up in middle school, I started playing fantasy football and I remember he would throw for a touchdown run a touchdown every year.
- [126:55]
A
No, I'm. I'm talking like the OGs. Like these guys won leagues for you. Marshall Falk was like that for a couple years. There's a two amazing Priest Holmes years.
- [127:04]
D
Yeah. There's a couple like mini Dion Waiter seasons where it's like guys who were incredible for two years and then disappeared. Like Chris Johnson on the Titans was unbelievable.
- [127:11]
C
Peyton Hillis.
- [127:12]
D
Peyton Hillis was so.
- [127:13]
A
Some receivers like David Boston had a crazy year.
- [127:16]
D
Josh Gordon, all timer.
- [127:18]
A
It would be funny to try to figure out the actual first ballot guys, which we could probably figure out pretty easily by the, by the numbers. But Rice was like, he was the first one. He would go like first, second, third in some of these drafts. The fantasy thing that we always talk about is this playoff league, I'm in my fantasy league with my guy. The first one I was in with my high school and some college buddies. And we go through 18 weeks. Top four teams advance to the playoffs. You get to keep up to six guys. Then we have a draft. So finish first place. That guy's first pick. It's not Snake. And it goes 1, 2, 3, 4. First place guy picks second in round two, and you pick all the guys out of all the teams that didn't make the playoffs. So if somebody had Josh Allen, they didn't make the playoffs. Josh Allen now eligible for the draft. We do two quarterbacks, and you have an advantage if you're in first place. But the lower you go, you kind of have to take chances and be like, I'm all in on Jacksonville making the playoffs.
- [128:18]
D
Because you have to weigh how good is the player versus how good is the team.
- [128:21]
A
Could I get four Trevor Lawrence games here? And then. Yeah, and it's really good. It's really fun. And we. We think it's better than actual fantasy. Plus, it keeps going.
- [128:30]
D
Who's the top pick? Is it. Is it Josh Allen? Because he's a wild card, so you can get four games out of him. Or I mean, Drake May, I guess, is also playing round one.
- [128:38]
A
Drake May is up there because you might get three games out of him. And I think same thing for Josh.
- [128:44]
D
You get four.
- [128:45]
A
The problem with the league this year is that there's no, like, slam dunk.
- [128:48]
C
Right.
- [128:48]
A
I know this team will be in the Super.
- [128:50]
C
That's the thing is I was just like, who. What fan is like, we're gonna. We. We could win the super bowl.
- [128:54]
A
Or like, if you think Seattle's gonna make the super bowl, then JSN would be a top four guy. Yeah. She'd be like, I will get three games out of him. But I don't know if they're gonna make the Super Bowl. No.
- [129:04]
D
The NFC is so tough there. There is no prohibitive favorite. I don't know. Maybe Denver fans feel really good, but it's.
- [129:09]
C
No, they shouldn't.
- [129:09]
A
I don't. I mean, I think Seattle and the Rams had the best odds by far. And then it dips down to the Denver one. But that's why, like, we have four home dogs in round one. Um, I don't think any fan base feels awesome about their team. I think I know somebody from every fan base. The Seattle fans are the funniest because they just don't trust Arnold at all.
- [129:27]
C
Sure.
- [129:28]
A
They have a really good team. Really well Coached running game look better. San Francisco game was a big win, but they don't. You just can't trust Arnold until you see it.
- [129:36]
D
Do you trust the Patriots?
- [129:38]
A
I don't trust the defense. I trust the offense. I think they'll be able to move the ball. And I'm completely trust Drake because especially with Will Campbell back, they're going to be able to like, put drafts together.
- [129:48]
D
Which team would you want to see.
- [129:50]
A
The least in the AFC Championship at Denver? Is complicated from. From a Patriots standpoint because there's some bad history there in the history of the franchise. But on the flip side, like, we have good history against the Chargers. We have good history against the Jaguars. I think the Jaguars have the highest ceiling of all the AFC teams because they've been really good now for two months. Yeah. Like if you. Everyone says the same thing was like, well, the Jaguars are playing the best, but. And then you pick another team and it's like, well, the Jaguars are playing the best. You just said it. Why can't they keep winning?
- [130:24]
D
They're probably the most balanced in terms of good defense, good offense. They have both.
- [130:27]
A
Yeah. And they have explosive plays and they can get third downs.
- [130:30]
D
Yeah. And I don't understand why Trevor Lawrence is not. And Liam Cohen are not in the coach of the year and MVP should be. Trevor Lawrence has the same stats as Drake May. He won 13 games. He won his division. He won. He's 18 straight. I don't know why he's not in conversation.
- [130:45]
A
I think he's going to be the third, but he's like 600 to 1.
- [130:48]
D
Or something compared to Stafford and May.
- [130:50]
A
Which is a coincidence. I think it was too late when he got going.
- [130:53]
D
Yeah.
- [130:53]
A
I don't know. I. I'm already on the record as saying I was out and that he was never going to be good at football. So it's a tough one for me because I have to unwind that one. He's been really good. I don't know if it was the Casey game that flipped it that Monday night game, but I actually have real confidence in him, which would be hilarious if I then pick them in a bunch of playoff games and then he just fucks me.
- [131:16]
C
Do you care at all about Lamar and Mahomes and maybe some of the bigger teams not getting to the. To the playoffs? Like, do you think because like the NBA, it's like they're.
- [131:27]
A
No. Because we've replaced those guys.
- [131:28]
D
Yeah.
- [131:29]
A
Don't you think? I. I feel like we have new characters.
- [131:31]
C
Football transcends at this point, like, but.
- [131:34]
A
You still need the guys. Because we had that the beginning of the 2000s when we had Warner and Brady show up. But it was basically like Manning and Favre and there wasn't anybody else. We were like, who's. It's like Steve McNair, these people that weren't even that fun to watch play football. And there was the whole. It was kind of an existential crisis of who are the next guys. We were like putting everything on Peyton Manning. I feel like we have so many good young guys now.
- [132:02]
D
Totally. We talked about this on our big year recap, on the fantasy show that just like the winner of the year was kind of just like the new guard replacing the old guard of Mahomes and Lamar missing the playoffs burrow, missing the playoffs burrow missing the playoffs, the Bills not winning the division and kind of having a down year for probably what they expected. And then you got all these guys, I mean, the mini winner within that category of the years. All these offensive coordinators who come in and like in these play callers like Liam Cohen coming in and fixing Trevor Lawrence, Ben Johnson fixing Caleb Johnson or Ben Johnson Fixing Caleb Williams. McDaniel with Drake May. There's been so many examples of just like talented quarterbacks who were struggling and these guru play callers come in and now the offense is great and now we have like double the amount of great quarterbacks in the league.
- [132:43]
A
Yeah, even Bo Nix, who I am not even 100% sold on, is fun to watch. I think we have a lot of fun to watch guys. But I don't know. Lamar and Mahomes, to me were the old guard. I mean, sort of there. But I feel like he's been hurt every year.
- [132:59]
D
And yeah, I mean that's.
- [133:00]
A
We all knew his team was the one that.
- [133:02]
C
I wish bro. I don't want to take him away from Bengals fans, but I do wish bro was in either had like a better infrastructure around him or was on like a different team.
- [133:10]
A
And could I said to Sal on Sunday, he's the closest to an NBA star that we have for at the. At the quarterback position.
- [133:17]
D
He's starting to talk a lot.
- [133:18]
A
See, it's weird. He's weird in the press conferences. He seems mad at the team, but he also signed a huge extension with them and pushed them to spend all of their money on him. And two receivers.
- [133:29]
D
Yeah.
- [133:30]
A
And you watch receivers.
- [133:31]
C
Zach Taylor, he's like, it's not his fault.
- [133:33]
A
Right. Didn't try to get him out.
- [133:35]
C
And you watch the receivers, like, not have A gm.
- [133:38]
D
Yeah.
- [133:39]
C
It's so funny.
- [133:39]
A
Like, spend money. Like, I watched that whole. We had Sal and I had the Bengals and Of a tease. So we were wide. That was the one we lost yesterday or Sunday. T. Higgins is just. Has guys draped all over him every play.
- [133:54]
B
He's.
- [133:55]
A
He's become one of. He's never open.
- [133:56]
D
Yeah.
- [133:57]
A
And then Chase. They. Just because he has no time to throw. They. It's basically like 10 yard routes for him. So it's like, what's the point of having these two receivers if you can't block for them? At least the Eagles can block the two receivers you have. But I don't. I don't understand that blueprint of we need to spend $60 million at this position.
- [134:14]
D
They listened to Burrow. Burrow advocated for it. And he's really throwing his weight around. Like, he's lebroning it a little bit where he's kind of like, I want Zach Taylor to stay. I want you to resign T. Higgins. I want you to draft these guys. So it's kind of like. And they have tried to draft offensive linemans. They're just not working. They drafted Armin Memboo, like, fifth or sixth overall. A lot of them just, like, aren't.
- [134:34]
A
No, they drafted that. He went to the Jets.
- [134:36]
D
Oh, Amarius Mims. They drafted.
- [134:37]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [134:38]
D
And he hasn't really been that great. It's tough. It's really hard to pay. I mean, the Cowboys are about to go through this right now with paying your quarterback 50 million and two wide receivers a ton of money. It's really hard to do that.
- [134:50]
A
I think the draft is. Maybe I'm getting older and just getting better at trying to figure it out. But, like, the Will Campbell thing was so funny as it was happening with that. With the arm length.
- [135:01]
D
Yeah.
- [135:02]
A
And just missing all this basic shit. Like. And you could tell from the moment they drafted him, he's like, I will now protect Drake May for the rest of my life. And that's where, like, he's Drake May's best friend. They hang out all the time. He's like, my role in life is to be this man's protector.
- [135:17]
D
Yeah.
- [135:18]
A
He's like, I don't understand how that doesn't come up in the draft process. You're getting this guy who's like, I was built to be a left tackle. Give me the quarterback I have to protect. I will. He's almost like in Game of Thrones.
- [135:28]
D
A lot of night flaps.
- [135:29]
C
A lot of situational. Right. Like, I mean, I remember all the pods you guys did about Bo Nix or in that quarterback class. And it's just like if you get Sean Payton, if Bonix was on the.
- [135:37]
D
Jets he'd be probably terrible. Yeah. And would have been a bench by now.
- [135:40]
A
The problem where it goes really like the Pennix pick which was one of the worst picks ever when it happened. And then the only thing you could say like in favor of it was well if he can stay healthy and then he gets hurt again. It's like of course he got hurt. He said five fucking knee injuries. And by the way, it wasn't good to begin with. Really unimpressed when you watched him and is older.
- [136:02]
D
I liked him in college a little bit. But like Tyler Schuck is a similar example. He's like 26 years old. He was, he was on Justin Herbert's team at Oregon which is insane.
- [136:09]
A
Yeah.
- [136:09]
D
And he's had two career ending injuries already and he's 26 years old and it's like, all right, we'll see what Kellen Morgan turn him into something. He looks all right but it's kind of similar to the Pennic situation except they didn't take him in the first place.
- [136:20]
A
40Th instead of 8 and they didn't take him in the area at quarterback.
- [136:23]
C
The funny thing that's happening now because I was just reading all of the portal stuff before we started doing rewatchables like all those guys are staying like the dude who's going to Texas Tech is going to make $5 million. The guy from University of Cincinnati and he's going to go like, he's basically like gets a rookie quarterback contract to go play for Texas Tech. So I think all the quarterbacks coming out will probably be a little bit older than we're used to soon.
- [136:47]
D
Definitely that's going to become a trend. I mean I think Anthony Richardson was like the end of the era of the quarterback.
- [136:52]
C
Take a 20 year old. Yeah.
- [136:53]
D
Play like 12 games but he's a freak.
- [136:55]
C
Like if you're Dante Moore, like don't you just. You could stay at Eugene and probably.
- [136:59]
A
Like, I mean that's the thing.
- [137:01]
D
I mean they might win a national championship this year. I think they're, they have incredible recruits next year he'll get paid 5 million bucks and then he doesn't have to risk going to the Raiders or the jets if he doesn't want to go there.
- [137:11]
A
This is where you need almost like a draft committee for athlete advice. You'd be like, Dante, here's the history of guys who came out in The NFL draft too early as quarterbacks. Now here's the history of all the guys who played for the Jets. Yeah, don't do this, man. Yeah, Just, just, just trust the process. For one more year, you're going to be out of the league.
- [137:29]
C
The problem is the jets are going to probably. They'll probably be picking close to the top of the first round.
- [137:34]
D
It's like you can't really.
- [137:35]
C
27. Then there will be more quarterbacks coming out.
- [137:37]
A
But.
- [137:38]
D
Yeah, it gets tricky when you try to do that. But I mean, quarterbacks have done that in the past.
- [137:41]
C
Right.
- [137:42]
A
The full circle would be the. The jets taking somebody else and then spending money on Mac Jones. I feel like Mac Jones playing on the jets for $28 million a year would be the. The Jetsiest of the jets outcomes.
- [137:54]
D
That's.
- [137:54]
A
We should rank yourself into it.
- [137:56]
D
We should rank. What are the most Jetsiest outcomes that could. I think the Jet. The dolphins eating $49 million of Tua's contract. And then the jets signing him, giving him the Russell Wilson, the Steelers one.
- [138:07]
A
Talking about how we get. We're basically getting him for free.
- [138:10]
D
$1 million.
- [138:11]
C
He'd play three games.
- [138:13]
D
That's. That's a Jetsy outcome. Or. Or they just like pay up for Kyler Murray and Kinsman convince themselves that.
- [138:19]
A
Kyler Murray feels very Jetsy to me too. The jets have always been like this, though. I remember it's like 30 years ago, Neil O' Donnell was in the super bowl against Dallas and threw the worst pick of all time to lose the game, but just was good, but not quite good enough. And then the jets splurged on him because he was a winner. And then he gave the press conference where he was like, I'm a winner. Me and my friends made joke about. We still joke about it. I'm a winner. I was brought here to win games and he was done in like a year. You just kind of know with some of the, like, if it's the Jets. I don't know what type of quarterback would succeed on the jets, but we've tried all the types at this point and I don't even like, would Drake May have worked on the jets like I think he would have, but I don't know.
- [139:02]
D
I mean, look at Drake May on the Patriots.
- [139:04]
A
Year one didn't work like running for his life. I. I mean, I would argue he overachieved.
- [139:08]
D
Yeah.
- [139:09]
A
He's literally running for his life the whole time. Do you have an mvp? Just out of curiosity. I'll abstain because I've already talked about it.
- [139:16]
D
I don't have strong feelings on it. I think they're both deserving. I don't have a problem. I know the one knock is like, the last time an MVP won that didn't win their division was like 20 years ago. So I think that's fair. I don't know.
- [139:27]
A
I think Stafford, she said three wild cards this century won the mvp.
- [139:31]
D
I wouldn't be upset if either won the mvp. And if I had to give it to one person, I'd probably give it to Stafford.
- [139:34]
A
Yeah, sure you would. Fucking typical media.
- [139:37]
D
Yeah.
- [139:37]
C
I'll take May just because I had him on fantasy.
- [139:39]
D
Yeah. Did you see. Did you see Tom Brady picked?
- [139:43]
A
I did. Who did he pick?
- [139:44]
C
Like Miles?
- [139:45]
D
No, he picked Matt Stafford, of course.
- [139:47]
C
Okay.
- [139:48]
A
That. That feel like. That felt like a very stealth Josh McDaniel thing. Josh has been dining on. I did everything and I don't want Josh to get too much credit here.
- [139:56]
D
Well, and just like I don't want there to be a new king of New England.
- [139:59]
C
Well, but it's like, if McDaniel can turn May into an MVP in two years, then, like, what does that mean about Brady?
- [140:07]
A
We've already debunked the Strength of Sched because the thing came out about all the EPA defenses each guy faced. They're basically the same. Stafford's only playing the defense of the other team. He's not playing offense. So that's already been debunked. Nobody seems to care about May's running and the fact that he can scramble and use his legs. Stafford's like, basically can't move. He's a fossil.
- [140:31]
D
Stafford threw 46 touchdowns, eight picks.
- [140:33]
C
I love how passionate you still get.
- [140:34]
D
It's really good. Led the league in passing.
- [140:37]
A
I would be passionate if this was an NBA argument with two guys I didn't care about. I think at some point, like, logic is logic and all the cases for Stafford, it's like, I can debunk that. I can't debunk your 46 touchdowns, 13 of which came on the one yard line. You're right. I can't. I can't beat that one. But I just think what May did this year has been underrated. But I guess if he loses to the Chargers in round one, then it looks stupid.
- [141:01]
D
I think they, honestly, both. I think they're both deserving. I don't. I don't have super strong thoughts. I do think the Patriots having one of the easiest schedules of the 21st century. You know, if you can discredit Stafford for having Puka and throwing a bunch of one yard touchdowns.
- [141:13]
A
I can also discredit when they say easy schedule. Like they played San Francisco's terrible defense twice and San Francisco's a playoff team. So it's like there's a playoff team. He played. I would love playing against the San Francisco defense. We went against the Cleveland defense which was good, but Cleveland sucked now. I know, but defense would you rather go against?
- [141:31]
D
But most of the games you only need to score 14 points to win because you're going up against the jets and you're up by 20 at halftime.
- [141:38]
A
Stafford's going to win. Everybody's over sided.
- [141:40]
C
What regular season?
- [141:41]
A
The lifetime achievement award. We're finding out that is, that is.
- [141:44]
D
Honestly kind of what it is.
- [141:45]
A
This is Al Pacino and son of a woman. It's like, well, sorry about Godfather 2.
- [141:49]
D
Al Downey Jr. Oppenheimer.
- [141:51]
A
Here's your Oscar.
- [141:53]
D
I don't know. I think it's. I think it's close enough where you can't be outraged either way.
- [141:57]
A
I think the nerds are going to carry Drake May home this week because there's so many epa. All that it's going to help.
- [142:02]
D
But like how can you make the case definitively for Drake May over Trevor Lawrence?
- [142:06]
A
It's a good question. I think because Lawrence wasn't as good in the first seven weeks. Exactly.
- [142:11]
C
It's actually Trevor Lawrence. People would respect that.
- [142:13]
A
Can you imagine if I did that?
- [142:15]
D
They had like the same amount of yards. Trevor Lawrence had more touchdowns, one less win. Also won his division. Also can run. I think he ran for nine.
- [142:22]
A
But you're leaving out stuff where like the Pats had the number one offense in EPA may lead the league in completion percentage, 10 yards per attempt. I'm just saying like, but you did do this better. Sal. Just he's already pigeonholed by his Drake maybe stuff from the beginning of the year. So he's just. Now he's just reading his Drake Bay. What do you feel about the Chargers in New England?
- [142:42]
D
I think that I can't believe The Chargers won 11 games.
- [142:46]
A
So that's where I am. And a lot of people are like Chargers underdog. I actually feel like this was a pretty good matchup for us.
- [142:52]
D
Oh yeah.
- [142:53]
A
But if we can't beat the Chargers, this whole season was a lie.
- [142:55]
D
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [142:56]
A
Charges like. And you should feel the same way about your team if you can't beat the Niners with that defense. Like what a fucking joke.
- [143:04]
D
Yeah.
- [143:04]
A
But the offense and all the money you've Spent on your offense. You can't beat the Niners defense.
- [143:08]
C
I still feel like this is my whole thing is like the Eagles are just. This is still like a skip day. You know what I mean?
- [143:14]
A
It's like that's a good way to think.
- [143:17]
C
I'd like us to win at least a playoff game.
- [143:19]
A
It's all right. Because going back to back in the NFL doesn't really mean anything. It's no history at all involved. Only like five teams have done it. Shouldn't want that. You won yours already.
- [143:31]
C
I'm just saying that given the evidence of what I've seen, it's not.
- [143:33]
A
Did you like my theory that the. The Eagles didn't care about the two or the three seed because they want. They don't want to play any playoff home games because their fans hate them?
- [143:43]
C
I don't think that that's true, but I do think that they play freer on the road.
- [143:48]
A
Yeah.
- [143:49]
C
And I don't think they get booed at halftime if they've only scored 13 points or something.
- [143:53]
A
So how would you grade the regular season for 2015? 2025?
- [143:57]
D
Across the board.
- [143:58]
A
Yeah. Just across the entertainment value this season.
- [144:01]
D
I thought it was one of the better seasons in a while. The unpredictability of I think Mahomes and Lamar dropping out with all of these new quarterbacks. Like the fact that Caleb worked, Trevor Lawrence works. Drake May worked. Yeah, I think it's. I think this is the most excited I've been for the playoffs in a long time.
- [144:13]
A
I think it was an A plus regular season. So many twists and turns.
- [144:16]
D
It's as wide.
- [144:17]
C
I mean I think the. The Chiefs downfall as made it just created like this vacuum of like I. You could give me six different teams, I'd be like, I. I believe it a lot.
- [144:26]
A
There was like 10 really memorable games too. Like that Casey Jacksonville Monday game was fucking crazy. The opening Baltimore Buffalo game.
- [144:35]
C
The Bears game.
- [144:36]
A
That. Yeah, that Niners, Seahawks. Not Niner, Seahawks.
- [144:40]
D
Rams. Seahawks.
- [144:40]
A
Rams, Seahawks.
- [144:41]
D
Crazy. The Packers Bears game from a couple weeks ago was nuts.
- [144:44]
A
The Bills were in that one. Bills Pats game was really good.
- [144:46]
B
There' really good games and I kind.
- [144:48]
D
Of don't mind like you could give me any super bowl matchup and I'd be like that's cool. You could pick any two teams. And I'm like, that's exciting. That's different. It used to be. I remember last year everybody was like, please just don't do Chiefs Eagles. And it's always like, please just don't have to be The Chiefs again. Now I'm kind of like whichever team makes it, I'm kind of excited for.
- [145:05]
A
Yeah, I, I actually was looking this morning at the odds of a Jacksonville, Seattle super bowl that would be. And they weren't nearly as high as I thought. It was like 17:1. I'm like, how is this not like 80 to 1? This is a crazy Super Bowl. Imagine. Yeah, the Jaguars, the Seahawks.
- [145:22]
C
It's nice though, that, like, with that kind of thing, if the Jags and the Seahawks played in the super bowl, like, still everybody would watch it.
- [145:29]
D
It's not like it's super cool. Yeah, it's. It's not like the small market thing in the NBA where if it's like the Bucks and the Suns, nobody's going to watch it. Doesn't matter who's in the super bowl, people are going to watch.
- [145:38]
A
The funny thing is the Jags are doing all this after trading all this stuff for Travis center, who stopped playing for them like two months ago.
- [145:44]
D
I know. That's such a terrible trade in retrospect already.
- [145:47]
A
And his career ended when Danny and Danny and Craig said he was basically Wandell Robinson with better pr. And meanwhile, Wando Robinson, didn't he get like a thousand yards? But he consulted, almost did like the.
- [146:03]
C
Miles Garrett stop the game because he got his thousand yards.
- [146:07]
A
I love that Zach Taylor got mad about that. Yeah, it's like, what the fuck? We're stopping the game. We're settling for our lives out here. We were trying to run tempo.
- [146:16]
C
Yeah, nobody told me about this.
- [146:18]
D
Settle down. Travis Hunter might not, like, start at wide receiver next year. They have three good wide receivers.
- [146:22]
A
They should just play him at D back, though. That's. Which is what they should have done anyway. Just made him a shutdown cornerback who can come out for some third attempts.
- [146:30]
D
I mean, this is. This entire playoff playoffs is like the. Nobody believes enough playoffs like every team. It's like the Bears. Do you believe in the Bears? We haven't seen it from Drake. Made in the Patriots in the playoffs. Trevor Lawrence in the Jags. It's like Sam Darnold. Who do I believe in?
- [146:43]
A
I was trying to think who the number one. The number one nobody believes in us team and the Jaguars, who already were touting that for the last like six weeks. And then to be home underdogs against Buffalo, a team that they've played better than for the last three months. I think they're probably number one. Yeah, I think the Bears are in there too, though. I do like being underdogs against the packers who are banged up is a good one. And then the Panthers obviously getting ten and a half.
- [147:09]
C
Oh yeah.
- [147:09]
A
I don't know if the players understand math and like how, how fucking embarrassing ten and a half is, but that is like such a slap in the face. That's one of the biggest spreads.
- [147:19]
D
The Rams, they beat the Rams like a month ago.
- [147:21]
A
And by the way, you can throw the ball on the Rams.
- [147:25]
D
The Rams are going to win.
- [147:26]
A
Brissette was over and over again just beating them. It wasn't like the Rams didn't need the game yesterday.
- [147:31]
D
I think Devonte is going to be back, which will be big. So one thing, Stafford can throw some more one yard touchdowns.
- [147:37]
A
You think you can get grab them in there. The one thing I think got overrated was the Houston defense, which I think peaked about four weeks ago and I'm not sure is exactly the same defense and seems to be giving up like long balls now that they weren't before. So going back to.
- [147:54]
C
Did they lose a DB or something like that?
- [147:56]
A
No, they just, they were really sloppy. They gave up two long plays to the Chargers. They were getting beat yesterday and it's like that could be a DK Metcalf spot for you.
- [148:05]
D
Yeah, it's going to be an ugly game. I do think Rogers looked really good last night because the Ravens had no pass rush. So I am a little worried about like Will Anderson and Daniel Hunter hitting.
- [148:14]
C
Him in like the third series and him just being like, I'm rattled.
- [148:17]
A
Yeah, there's a world where the. You just get overrun.
- [148:21]
D
Yeah. That's always the case though with the Steelers it's either win by two, lose by 20.
- [148:26]
A
Unbelievable. Plus we have six or Celtics in May for the Eastern Conference.
- [148:30]
C
I can't wait for that. How are you feeling about the Embiida Sons?
- [148:33]
A
Have we ever had a situation where the Sixers and Celtics fans both love their team at the same time? I can't believe how this is 2018 was the last time.
- [148:41]
C
Maybe I feel such deep connection to this Sixers team now.
- [148:44]
A
Like the fucking bj. It's like, forget Dwayne Wade, let's talk mj.
- [148:50]
C
The Grizzlies game, that was like a couple of nights before Christmas.
- [148:55]
A
Yeah.
- [148:55]
C
Or after Christmas. It was like unreal. Like in the Philippines.
- [148:58]
A
The one on Peacock, I watched that game. Yeah, he's. I mean you have two of the most fun players in the league. My team has this Jaylen Brown renaissance and Tatum coming back and really fun to watch. Pretty crazy. I would not have predicted that we were to Be the two most fun teams in the East. I know it's.
- [149:13]
C
The Cavs made way for us.
- [149:15]
A
Our guy Darrell sticking around now.
- [149:17]
C
Seems like it.
- [149:18]
A
Yeah. Your team's dead.
- [149:21]
C
Sorry.
- [149:22]
A
Your team's looking at Anthony Davis and Michael Porter Jr.
- [149:26]
D
I need to get in a room with Joe Lacob, give him a piece of my mind for what he's done to us the last five years.
- [149:31]
C
He'd be happy to write you back in an email if you send one.
- [149:34]
A
It's tough because, I mean he can he check it prime Steph Curry for five years. But he could also say we won the title in 22, we've won four, we've spent as much money as we could possibly spend. We out thought a lot of teams.
- [149:48]
C
It's kind of like.
- [149:49]
D
It's. It's.
- [149:50]
C
You guys have had a great run. You've had a run that watch basketball never experienced.
- [149:56]
D
We've been sticking to Jonathan Kaminga, Pajemski and a bunch of scrubs literally for four straight years.
- [150:03]
A
Yeah.
- [150:04]
C
Just waiting for the right trade to come along.
- [150:06]
D
Yeah.
- [150:08]
A
That was just amazing. This.
- [150:10]
D
I would love to have Anthony Davis. I don't care.
- [150:12]
A
Kaminga this weekend when he was getting yanked around by Kerr and then they're like, we need you. He's like, my back hurts. Him out. Was like, we've now reached the fuck you area of that relationship. Yeah.
- [150:21]
D
Yeah.
- [150:21]
A
It's time.
- [150:23]
D
Do you think. Do you think the warriors are going to get anybody?
- [150:27]
A
I mean, what's interesting is I thought it was going to be Porter Jr. For a little while there, which I think would have really helped them. But now he's probably played himself up into like a two first round picks type of.
- [150:37]
C
Of Michael Porter Jr. Yeah.
- [150:40]
A
He's been going.
- [150:42]
C
But like you do know what you're getting, right? Like we just watched or you're getting.
- [150:45]
A
Somebody who's blossoming and. And maybe on Denver couldn't use all the pieces of them. You know, it's just Steph's. It's dangerous is my point.
- [150:53]
D
Steph's going to be 38 in March and he's averaging 29 a game. And we're just. He's just been doing that. He looks. He looks the same as he did five years ago.
- [151:00]
A
LeBron for Butler is just the trade that makes the league more fun. I would a hilarious trade.
- [151:05]
D
I'd rather jump off the golden gate Bridge than LeBron James games on the.
- [151:09]
A
Warriors, they have to figure out the Draymond thing too.
- [151:12]
C
I've been enjoying watching JJ's press conferences more than actual Lakers games.
- [151:16]
A
Yeah, me too.
- [151:17]
C
Or JJ's, like, media availability after practice where he's just like, guess everybody just had a great holiday. I didn't, you know, like, he's like, I don't know.
- [151:24]
A
We weren't even running plays out there. I got to work on that. Yeah, we're calling the plays, they're not running them. Pretty funny. I. We need, like, I, I was thinking, like, if the ringer worked, like some of these NBA teams, how interesting that would be.
- [151:37]
B
Where?
- [151:37]
A
Florida. Like, I don't know. Sean was like Draymond Green and he's just taping the big picture in the face. He just storms out of a big picture taping an hour in. It's like we only have another hour or one hour of the big picture because Sean couldn't make it through another taping. Like, it's literally Draymond's job to stay on the court for the entire game. You have one job.
- [151:57]
B
All right.
- [151:58]
A
Good luck with the Steelers. Good luck with the Eagles. I'll wish myself luck with the Patriots.
- [152:01]
C
I wish you luck as well, Bill.
- [152:03]
A
I hope we're all surviving for at least a couple rounds. Thanks for popping on. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Goldsberry. Thanks to C.R. and Craig. Thanks to Gahao and Eduardo. Don't forget live Bill Simmons podcast. Wednesday, February 11th theringer.com events yeah, we're gonna do this. I have no idea who's gonna be on it, but it'll be entertaining. And I have a new podcast coming on Thursday as well. We'll be breaking down all the football stuff. Try to change my picking luck, see if we can throw a couple wrinkles in. I will see you on Thursday. Must be 21 plus on President select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + on President D.C. kentucky or Wyoming Gambit problem. Call 100 Gamble or visit rg-help.com, call 888-797-7777 or visit ccpg.orgchattinconenetic or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-550 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York.