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The Bill Simmons Podcast
OKC’s Better, Jokic Isn’t Real, a Clippers Swoon, and Detroit’s Rise With Tim Legler, Plus Week 11 Picks With Joe House and Billy Gil
02:22:58
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- [00:00]
A
This episode is brought to you by the terrifying new horror film. I love horror films. Keeper. From Osgood Perkins, the director of Long Legs and the Monkey, comes a new breed of nightmare. Master of hire James Wan, creator of the Conjuring. I've seen it many times praises Keeper as a terrifying, ghostly descent into madness. Don't miss the horror event of the season. Keeper opens in theaters nationwide November 14th. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I have a new rewatchables coming for you on Monday. We went back to the 80s. It's the 40th anniversary of a very important teen movie. It's called Weird Science. It's written and directed by John Hughes. It is a cable classic. Kyle Brandt has been demanding it for years, so we finally, finally pulled it off. It's quite a movie. It's one of those movies that could come out in 2025 and maybe it would just be AI and a lot of the plot would be the same. So Weird Science coming on Monday, you have the weekend to watch it. Coming up on this podcast, Tim Legler is going to join us at the top. We're going to talk about Oklahoma City and Denver and whether they're starting to separate themselves from the rest of the league. We're going to do a whole bunch of basketball stuff. He's been announcing some games for ESPN and he has been courtside for some really good stuff. That's the top of the pod. And then Joe House and I are going to do Ringer 107 picks for week 11. We're joined by Billy Gill who just joined the Ringer a couple weeks ago and we're going to spruce up the marriage with him and try to make some football picks. As you can tell, I'm taping this before the Patriots jets game and this was the temp intro that we made just in case the Patriots rolled over the jets like we thought they would and then I wouldn't have to come back out here at 8:30 and give five bullet points about oh my God, I can't believe Blank. Let's just hope the patriots won by by 20 by the time you listen to this. As for the rest of the podcast, we're gonna take a break, Pearl Jam and then Tim Legler. This episode of the Bill Simmons Podcast is presented by State Farm. Having insurance isn't the same as having State Farm. It' needing the protection of offensive guard on the football field, but getting an elementary school crossing guard. Sure they're both guards, but you can only trust One, to keep your quarterback safe when the game is on the line. So don't settle for just any insurance when you can have State Farm like a good neighbor. State Farm is there.
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B
All right.
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A
We're taping this late Thursday afternoon. Tim Legler is here. He has been announcing basketball games for ESPN and bouncing around on different shows, but this is really his true passion. Talking to me about Nikola Jokic and okc, I'm going to start here. You did the OKC game last night? Yeah, I went to Clippers Nuggets and saw just the legendary Jokic game and I was driving home, I saw the Lakers score and I was just like, this feels like a two man race right now. I know we're 11 games in, but those two teams are so much better than everybody else I'm watching. Is it, does it feel that way to you? It's like 2 versus 28.
- [03:23]
C
Yeah, clearly. I mean, I already kind of thought that. And then it was really pound at home last night watching OKC waiting on the Lakers. And you know, the OKC played the night before against the Warriors. That game got out of hand by halftime. So the OKC guys only nobody had to play more than half a game to beat Golden State. And then so we're sitting there, we're in town on Tuesday night. We're actually out at dinner. Myself, Mike Breen, Richard Jefferson were having dinner and like at the same restaurant. The entire Lakers coaching staff was there and like we know all those guys, so we were like talking to them a little bit and I could tell like they were, they were excited about the fact that, you know, they were in town. They had just beaten Charlotte on Monday. And I think with Luca rolling the way he has been, Reeves playing the way he was, I believe it just felt like they, they were looking forward to this challenge. And let's see where we are really by playing against this elite defense. And I tell you what, man, when you watch Oklahoma City play with that kind of adrenaline, when they're up on their toes to the extent they were at the start of this game, there's nothing like it in the league. Defensively, there just isn't anything like it. And they can so dispirit you that it really starts to affect you on the other end of the floor, which is what I thought happened to the Lakers because they had nothing going at all offensively really from about mid first quarter on. And now on the other end of the floor, they just became just really passive and they were the lacking concentration. And Oklahoma City got whatever they wanted on the other end of the floor, but it started with what they did to them defensively. And when you see that up close, when you're sitting there and you're taking it all in, how deep they are defensively, everybody is accountable to each other. And Jalen Williams isn't even playing in the game. Aaron Wiggins isn't even playing. And they're doing that to the Lakers. With those two guys coming in that hot, they completely dismantled them. And so, yes, Bill, to answer your question for me, it's okc. I think they deserve the respect to say they're on a different shelf than everybody else. The question is who can close the gap with them the most? That's really what we're talking about. And right now Denver has separated themselves from everybody else.
- [05:47]
A
So you have okc, then Denver, then everybody else.
- [05:50]
C
Yes, yes. Okay, I do. I, you know, I just, I just, I'm looking at this. Look, if you think about this, they won a championship and they would be sitting here at what, 13 and oh, 12 and oh, however many games they played, they blew a 20 point lead to Portland on the road and they were up with five minutes to go.
- [06:09]
A
I watched that game. They should have won it.
- [06:11]
C
Yeah, if they, if they win that game, they're undefeated and they're missing their second best player. It's incredible really, what they've been able to do. I said to some fans I was leaving the arena last night and of course Oklahoma City fans are the best. They're just the nicest people in the world and they win a lot, so they feel good, but still they're just nice people and they're just like, hey man, what do you think of our team? And I said, you know what? I think what I just watched is when the best team in the league plays their best and their hardest, that's kind of what it looks like. That's what happens to people. You're incapable of getting anything easy offensively and eventually that's just going to wear you down. That's what they did to the Lakers last night.
- [06:55]
A
Shea had a really good quote a couple days ago about he even though they won the title, he didn't feel like they played their best. Yeah, and he was kind of frustrated because he felt like they let some left some stuff on the table and they didn't get to where he thought they should be mentally. And he's been approaching this season as we can still go up a level. I think you, if you go back and read the great championship teams and I Always like one of the teams I always like to look at is the 92 Bulls because they win in 91, but they're like that young up and coming contender. They finally get over the hump against Detroit, then they have that Lakers series. They're not favored in the Lakers series and they kind of, as the series goes along, they really figure it out and by the end of the series, you know they're the best team. But then they rolled that over to the next year and they just killed everybody in 9:2. Like they, that was probably their best regular season team until the, the last three Jordan teams. I thought that might happen with OKC without Jalen Williams though. That's the part that I don't want to say confused by but, but like pleasantly surprised by because this, this AJ Mitchell being able to come in and just be, just be this immediate like 16, 17 points a game, steady offense. It's not like he's a three point shooter. He's like a crafty guard. He can kind of do a Shay impersonation a little bit if they need, like if Shea misses a game, he could probably get in and get 25. But they're, they're so freaking deep that when, when Jalen Williams comes back, I don't even know who loses minutes. I guess they can just kind of mix and match and be like, here we'll just play these nine guys today. But it's about as deep of a team as I think we've ever seen.
- [08:35]
C
Well, and I want to tell you this so about AJ Mitchell and they knew he could play last year. He was given at different times he'd get some minutes and get an opportunity to get some room a little bit, just enough to see him. They knew he could play. And you could tell by talking to Mark Dagnault, as much as we saw him last year, I felt like it was like a second home. I was in there building so much last year and you got the impression they kind of knew. But I'm telling you, even by what they thought they knew, A.J. mitchell has surpassed that. A.J. mitchell is a big time guard.
- [09:11]
A
He really is. He's a guy 7 for 11 every game.
- [09:15]
C
And it's like, it's like I'm watching this guy and I'm going, first of all. I knew that he had, could do some of the things off the dribble and his like mid range and finishing at the rim was like pretty good. I did not know he could shoot the ball this effectively from deep. So there's no real set Game plan on him now defensively when he runs ball screen because I thought it would be like go under. Let's see what he's capable of making. The guy's making everything from the perimeter. He's got a burst like to accelerate past you. He's got incredibly strong base. And I was watching him last night, just how balanced he is at all times. He's incredibly strong. His, his trunk is so strong. So when guys are trying to put forearms into him and get him off his spot, he plows right through it like it's nothing. You're sitting there with Jalen Williams. Oh, by the way, I forgot to mention the first team all league NBA defender didn't even play last night in Lou Dort. And then you've got, you've got Jalen Williams not playing, right? So, so what do you have? Well, you got Casen Wallace, one of the best on ball up the floor perimeter defenders in the NBA. You've got Alex Caruso, who's the number one rated individual defensive player in the league. And by the way, AJ Mitchell is the second highest rated individual defensive player in the NBA. Guys make 30% of the shots against him that he contests. So, and I was talking to thought about this before the game and he was saying what a luxury he has that he never has to look out on the floor and say to himself, do I have enough offense, do I have enough defense? He just plays his guys and both ends are covered because they don't have any weak links, they don't have any. All of those guys compete. They all get after it. Ton of want to. And then the physical attributes that you need like the speed, the strength. And of course he's, you know, he's got a brilliant game plan with the way that they flood to the lane on penetration. And I'm watching the Lakers saying lakers fifth in the league and points in the paint. They have to score in the paint or at least touch the paint with Reeves or Doncic. That's the way their team is built. They're a low volume three point shooting team. They, they don't take a lot, they don't make a lot. And guess what? Against OKC, you're not scoring in there. There's a 16 point discrepancy going into the game between what the Lakers get every night in the paint and what OKC gives up every night in the paint. Something's going to give. In most nights against okc, it's the other team that gives. And it was again last night the Lakers had like they had like 20 points in the paint at almost the end of the third quarter, they averaged 53. So that's what OKC did to them last night. And now here got this other guy, Mitchell, that's now starting with Jalen Williams out, that's turned into this incredible two way player. And it's just, it's, it's absurd. Like the number of guys that they can throw at you that can produce on both ends.
- [12:10]
A
Yeah, the Lakers, I think the really athletic teams are going to be a real problem for them because I thought the Atlanta game, even though Atlanta is a completely different team than okc, it was a little bit similar. I think if you're going to really ratchet up the athlete against the Lakers, I think they're going to have some issues. I got to say this one thing about Mitchell, and I don't say this lightly. I'm not a crazy hyperbole person. The way he's playing reminds me a little of when Brunson was on Dallas. And you would, before we really, you know, way before he became Knicks. Brunson, way before that one series when Luka was out and all of a sudden he was carrying them. But Brunson had this stretch on those Dallas teams where you would watch him be like, is this guy really good or am I crazy? Right? Could this guy be the lead guard on a really good team or am I crazy? And you just watch him and he was so comfortable and he could, he was like this finished product and he was kind of this luxury on the side for the Mavs. And I just wonder, like with Mitchell, I'm sure these other GMs are looking at this Thunder team going, there's no way they're going to keep all these guys. They're going to be able to pay Kayson Wallace $30 million a year. They're not going to be able to pay Mitchell in a couple years. So I'm sure like all these other teams must be scavengers. Like, could we build an offense around AJ Mitchell? It seems absurd, but who knows? The Brunson thing seemed absurd.
- [13:29]
C
You're right. And we were actually having that conversation just amongst us last night. Like after we did all the pregame interviews and everything, we were kind of just sitting around looking at the roster and saying that exact thing. Like right now AJ Mitchell's going off. He's been incredible. But you've got Jalen Williams sitting over there. Dort didn't play last night. Aaron Wiggins is a really important player. That's three guards I just mentioned three guards. And by the way, you're, you know, every night he's got to find 20 to 24 minutes for Caruso. You just have to. His plus minus is, is incredible. And he's just a winning player and he made some plays last night that kind of really defied logic defensively, the amount of ground he covers and the challenges he takes on. And of course then you've got Shea there as well. And Isaiah Joe is a guy that shoots 40% from the three in guard.
- [14:12]
A
He's playing really well this year.
- [14:13]
C
He's playing great too. So I just mentioned six guys, all of whom, and this is, this is almost really unheard of, all of whom can make a legitimate argument they need to be playing at least half the game. And obviously in the case of your star, he's playing 35, 36. Jalen Williams will do the same. So those other four guys, they all have a right to lay claim to those minutes, but you can't do it. So how do you think it's going to play out down the road? At some point, I think the A.J. mitchell find, one of two things is going to happen. He's either going to get so good and do this all year, including through a two month playoff run and like have big moments in the finals where he starts to go, you know what, man, I kind of think I'm good enough to be like, have my own team, right? Not, not necessarily as like, you know, you know, a superstar. Well, although, who knows? But, but I'm just saying like my team starter, 35 minutes, give me the ball. I'm running the show, not playing off of these other two great players that are in front of him or they're going to decide, you know what, we have to lock this guy up. It's going to obviously affect a guy like Case and Wallace, affect a guy like Wiggins. It's going to trickle down to those guys. And look, teams that win titles, Bill, you know this very difficult to keep those fringe rotational players like, intact. So those guys typically find greener pastures because they get more money to go somewhere else because they're champions and they're good players.
- [15:39]
A
Right? AJ Mitchell in the apron era. Oh yeah, you're not keeping all these guys anymore. Can't do it. A.J.
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C
Mitchell to me is too exciting of a prospect to think about them making the decision that they would go in a different direction and move him or something. It's not going to happen that way. It'll be because he comes to determination in his camp in his corner that like, you know what I'm actually better than, than being a guy that's like in the rotational mix of guards on a great team. Maybe I'm good enough to be a 20 point scorer, 35 minute guy on my own really good team. And we'll see how that's going to play out over time. Because this is all just happening so quickly for all of us watching this, right? It's like now it's expected. I expect this guy every night to go off and he.
- [16:24]
A
I'm glad you feel that way because I didn't know if I was overreacting watching it because it's not like, like the Celtics played the Sixers the other night and Edwards came just, just got red hot on the Sixers, right? And if, if you just watch one game, you'd be like, wow, that guy's amazing. He's not going to do that every night, right? Mitchell's steady. Mitchell always gets the same types of shots and plays with a certain pace and is always in control of what he wants to do. And I, I just, I gotta be honest, like why? I, I just can't believe they stumbled into this. It's incredible watching them the first four weeks is like where this guy was on their team last year. I didn't notice him, I didn't know.
- [17:03]
C
One other thing, one other thing about him that really suits him well here, this situation for any young guard trying to find their way in the league, like when they first get their, their legit run, they are so often playing with numbers and playing in the open floor because of what they do to turn you over. So like the decision making for him is so simplified and a lot of the damage he does is an initial push up the floor or if he sometimes a couple times last night that initial surge took place, the Lakers were able to at least fend that off. And now here he comes into like the trail over the half court ball gets swung to him and he is so quick and explosive to put it down on the floor and just attack you and he's right back in the lane or catching two to three. Did one of those on a trail three last night. So like their space that they have offensively for so many possessions in the game, it helps young players find their confidence and rhythm rather than have to kind of slug it out in a half court setting all the time where maybe some of your weaknesses can be exposed. Right now they always have numbers and that really helps him.
- [18:08]
A
It's when you think about, so they won 68 last year they're over under heading into the season, which was one of my locks was 63. And the regular season record fandom has them 13 to one to break the regular season record and three to one and win 70. I think the case for them to win 70 on top of the fact that it's only two more than they won last year is they could lose any guy in their lineup and I think they'd be fine for a couple of weeks. Right. Even like Shay, who is a historically great guard, having another awesome year. I feel like if he was gone for three weeks they'd be able to patch it together with a lot of offense and, and with their defense probably be okay. Whereas like if Denver lost Jokic, now we're having a different conversation. The defensive stats with them, I know it's early. These are all small sample size stuff, but they're per 100 possessions, 103.4 is the rating and the next team is 109.4. Denver to be 6 points lower than everybody else defensively, like that's like a whole other level. And as you said, they really should be undefeated. So yeah, they are still the favorites. They're the betting favorites. I don't really see scenarios where they're not going to be hosting the Western finals. And what's crazy is they have the Clippers pick. The team I saw last night that I think is 3 and 8 or 3 and 9 in a generational draft with at least three franchise guys and then three other guys that everybody thinks in another year would have been number one pick and they're just sitting there with this pick and they might have struck gold yet again.
- [19:48]
C
Yeah. And you know, so I guess it was the game's last night tonight apparently. I guess Sam Presti was being honored going into the Oklahoma hall of Honor. And I made a joke on the air last night, I said, man, you got to win a championship to get in. Like I would have thought that guy would have already been in there. Like they really, they really holding a high standard in the Oklahoma hall of Honor.
- [20:08]
A
The Kawhi trade should have been in there after that.
- [20:10]
C
That's what I'm saying. But so we were just talking about him a little bit on the air and just like he and he, you know, some guys say things as people that run teams and make personal decisions and it sounds cliche ish when he says like they made a commitment to draft character and draft people and obviously you're not. That doesn't mean you're going to, you know, Forego talent, but you want both. It really is incredible how much it's reminding me of what happened in San Antonio, because you had. You had three guys, elite talents, but more importantly, great teammates, workers, selfless, didn't care about the limelight, not an ounce of diva in them, extremely coachable, wanted to be coached. In fact, allowed their head coach to get into them when they needed it. And now you look at this situation with. With Shea and Jalen Williams and Chad Holgren, they got their three, and they're all great dudes. They legitimately buy into each other. They buy into accountability for one another. So it really is.
- [21:16]
A
It's gross. Stop praising them. It's. I'm going to throw up. We might be stuck with this for 10 more years.
- [21:21]
C
I know. And people. It's so funny, too, because people, like, they want to just attack you on social media if you're, like, praising a team. And I'm just like, what do you want me to say, man?
- [21:30]
A
Like.
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C
Like, they are like, first of all, also, I want to say this, like, as a. As a. As I'm a broadcaster, I'm also a fan of a game of. Of basketball. They. The way they play. I'm a fan of the style. I'm a fan of the way that they play the game. It's fun for me to sit down and watch them. And then, you know, they just happen to do it at such a high level that. And I agree with you, by the way, like, as far as missing guys or guys, they're already proving that right now with who they're missing, they could have guys go down. No biggie, man. Because their defense will carry the day every night. We were joking at halftime. This game got out of control. We're going, okay. At what point do these two teams, like, empty their benches? And I'm like, I don't know, man. Not too early for the Lakers, because the OKC guys that you put out there on that second five play every bit as hard. Like they're going to get into you defensively that this thing could go from 25 to 45, 50 if you don't keep some guys on the floor that can handle the ball for the Lakers.
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B
Wow.
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A
When was the last time we said that? Yeah, yeah.
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C
Crazy.
- [22:34]
A
It's. You know, I think for. Though it's one thing to win a title, right? I think anybody can win a title once. If you have good players, you have some luck, you have some health, you have one great star. I feel like they've actually changed the league a Little bit. And Indiana gets a little bit of credit for this, too, with how hard they play, picking up full court. Some of the stuff they're doing defensively, that's just different. And I think, again, Indiana was the other team that was really trying to pick up 94ft. The last time you were on, we were talking about just some of the trends that we're seeing early and how some teams are just trying to pick up the pace and just do. But it all stems from them, and they do it by far the best, and they can affect whatever is ha. Whatever they want. They're like, you know what? The pace of this is too slow. Let's ratchet it up and they can just do it right. And then on top of it, they have this generational guard who it feels like he's getting better and his stats are the same. I don't even really understand it. It just feels like he's 3% more comfortable every two months as a score. I feel like at the end of the game, he's going to get any shot he wants. And, you know, you came in. What year did you come in the league?
- [23:45]
C
90. 1990.
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A
What year did you leave?
- [23:49]
C
2000.
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A
All right, so you went prime, Jordan, early, Kobe. But Kobe wasn't Kobe yet. But then you were. You were in media.
- [23:58]
C
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
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A
I mean, Tanisha is on that.
- [24:02]
C
On that level 10 years, and Jordan won six championships. I'm like, thanks, man. You know, thanks.
- [24:08]
A
Thanks for that, mj.
- [24:09]
C
Thanks, y'.
- [24:09]
A
All.
- [24:10]
C
Chance.
- [24:10]
A
Yeah, but I think, Shay, when you start putting together year after year of this, you have to enter that conversation now. And I'm not saying he's better than those guys, but I'm just saying if you're making a list of the. The best. The best guards of the last however many years, I think. I just think he has to be on there now.
- [24:27]
C
His. He has developed, first of all, to your point. What he's doing right now is so casual and easy. It's.
- [24:34]
A
Yeah, that's the thing.
- [24:35]
C
It's so easy, what he's doing right now. You know, he had a 3010 game last night. 30 and 10, basically through three quarters. And it was so easy and casual because he has. He has the ability to get his favorite shot whenever he wants it pretty much. It's very rare that someone can stop that step back midi. Or, you know, he's making the. He's making the step back three now, too. But it's really that shot from 12 to 20ft, that's the shot that he Gets and primarily going left. And he gets it whenever he wants because he uses your own leverage and determination to stop his penetration against you. And he stops so quickly and so abruptly that it's almost impossible to time that up. Every now and then I'll see a guy do it really well or sometimes we'll go to the step back and a guy has timed it so well and anticipated with length. You got to have length that their arm is up. And now he kind of, he'll stop and he's maybe trying to get the bump. Doesn't get that where he has to swing it and then go get it back. But I'm telling you that happens like only a couple times a game. When he wants it, he gets it, even against the elite guys. And so now he's in this place where you have to sell out to stop him. And that is when now they start raining some threes on you because they're not a really Super High Volume 3 Point Shooting Team either. But when they start stringing threes together, that is when they look to me like there's no team in this league that can beat this guy. These guys four times in a seven game series when they're making threes. So that's a decision you have to make as a coach. Sell out to him a little bit more, force the ball out of his hands. And then these guys are so smart playing four on three that they will find the open guy. And they've got slashers, they got lob threats with their bigs, they've got guys that can shoot wing and corner threes. They make the right decision, they'll turn it over, someone takes a shot. Now if you get them on an off shooting night and you took it out of Shay's hands, you got a chance. But it's rare that anybody's able to pull all of that off. You've got to have the scheme and the personnel and the want to. That's a lot to ask against a guy as good as Shay Gilgeous Alexander.
- [26:58]
A
The footwork, you know, like if you go back and you watch like the old Bobby orr tapes from 50 years ago and just watch him skate and he's just skating differently than everybody else. He's just faster and more coordinated and it's like, wow, that guy's just different. And then Connor McDavid now is the same thing. There's all these fast dudes in the NHL and just something about how he moves is just different. And we've seen, usually we talk about big guys with Footwork, right? It's like Mikhail and Hakeem and Tim Duncan. And I think with Shay, I don't want to do the thing where it's like we don't give Shay credit enough. I'm not saying that. It's just you don't think of the footwork when you think about him because of all the other stuff he's doing. But what you said before about how he just stops, that's like his cheat code, his ability to just completely stop his body and then go in a different direction as he's using somebody's leverage against him. I don't know how you stop it. I don't really know what the answer is.
- [27:54]
C
You have to guess. And what I see, what I do see when guys try to guess is and they're not fully committed to retreat mode and they're more upright because they're trying to time that up. That's when he ends up blowing right by you and he's at the rim or he's throwing a pocket pass or a lob to Holmgren or Isaiah Hardenstein, or if that big, you know, you play it perfectly on the.
- [28:16]
B
On the.
- [28:17]
C
On the. Underneath the basket, on the second line, perfectly big comes over to help so he can't get to the rim. Opposite wing defender drops down and chips on the big. So there's no lob foot. Well, then he throws the pass now over to the right wing, which is the open area of the floor. If he drives down the left side of the lane or he'll throw back to the left corner, like, he'll make that play. I call it the late find. He makes the late find now really, really well when his option is exhausted for himself. But more often than not, he's at the rim with something soft up on the glass. And if you are in full commitment to try to get back and cut him off because you're so worried about the blow by, that's when he stops. And then he basically sidesteps or backsteps. It's about, by my guess, 6 to 7ft, and he's 6 6. It's not like he's 511 doing this where you can maybe have a chance to get back. He's six' six as it is, so that. But the quickness with which that right foot hits the ground and then he is off the ground after he has stepped back that amount of time is just so tight. To pull all of that off perfectly, it requires, like, a special effort on that possession. And then, guess what, by the way, if you do that. I got news for you. The next time down the floor, he's going to do it again. And you won't be as good at that. Stopping to keep coming at you on.
- [29:44]
A
Tv, it doesn't do it justice. I hate to do the you gotta see it in person thing, but it's one of those things. You see it in person, you're just like, I don't understand how anyone stop that now. I guess you could probably use somebody taller, maybe 3, 4 inches or like a 6, 9 guy with longer arms maybe. But how many guys, like, if you could. How many guys are there like that? Tatum did an okay job against you.
- [30:07]
C
Basically just described, like, you know, well, if we could just put Scottie Pippen on him, like, you know, we would have a chance. Like, because that's what you're talking about. 6, 8, 6, 9. And Scotty might even have been longer than that with incredible reach. And then just a whole lot of, like, defensive instincts to want to time it up and play a guy like that. He wears you down, man. Their whole team wears you down. And by the way, I want to say, obviously last night, you know, Lakers came in pretty. Feeling pretty good, hot, offensively clicking, and they didn't have LeBron James. Let's just be very clear about that. You still have LeBron James sitting over there, which is going to affect the force with which you could play against okc. It's going to affect your points in the paint that you need, your paint touches that you need to make your offense go, all of that stuff. So this isn't the best version of the Lakers, but it was a team coming in that was somewhat rolling offensively with two, with. With, you know, a superstar off to one of the best scoring starts in the history of this league in Luca, and then another guy who's turned himself into a star player in his own right in Austin Reeves, and neither guy had any success going where they wanted to on the floor last night.
- [31:21]
A
Plus, it was a happy week for them because they. We finally have a verdict. It seems like they might have won the Luka Doncic trade. Yeah, I think it's finally. We can finally, finally come up with the winner. It took.
- [31:32]
C
Hey, can I. Can I just say I didn't need nine months. I didn't need to deliberate for nine months if I was on that jury. Okay. I'm. I'm literally handing in the verdict, like, within minutes after I heard the news.
- [31:50]
A
I think if I was a Dallas fan, I'd be more mad that we didn't get Reeves in the trade, then about the actual trade, I'd be like, it's one thing how stupid it was to trade him, but I just, why didn't we get Reeves? I would just, I would go to bed at night. That would be like one of the three final things I thought about before I fell asleep. We gotta take a break and then I wanna come back. Cause we didn't talk about Jokic yet. We just did like 25 minutes on OKC. Take one break here. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by fanduel. Fanduel's put you in control right from tip off. That's right. You get to choose your reward, play it safe, go for it. Feeling bold. That's your move. Whatever your style, you're in control no matter how you play. FanDuel's giving you the power to choose your reward and own your game this NBA season, which we still have, I think seven eighths of the season left. So you have plenty of time to own your Reward. Head to fando.combs to make your pick. Get in the game and play it your way. Must be 21 + President in select states or 18 + in President in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Opt in Required rewards are non withdrawable. Restrictions apply including bonus and token expiration, legal requirements and max wager amount. See terms@supportsbook.fanduel.com, gamma problem. Call 100 Gamble or visit rg-help.com call 1-888-78-9777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut. All right, coming back. Somehow this isn't the number one story we're talking about. I went to a Clippers Nuggets game last night. I don't know what was going on with Jokic because you could see it from the beginning. I don't know whether he was mad about the playoff series from last year. If Zubac texted him something joking that he took personally, if he heard something in the second row that made him mad. But he was in playoff mode and pretty early in the game it became clear the Clippers had this strategy of, I call it the 2005 spurs against Steve Nash strategy of like you left a pass, so we're going to take your passes away and you're going to have to score to beat us. And Jokic was like, this is really what you guys are doing and just torched them. He had 25 in the first quarter. He had 52 after three and it was every kind of shot. And I was trying to Think what's different about him this year? Just from what I saw just being at the game, it feels like he's making the decision to score like a, like a infantile, infinitesimal split second faster versus like I have the ball I'm going to think about and now I'm going to make my move. This time he's just like, I'm scoring. He has all these different shots. He's in great shape and he was just unbelievable. And the crowd was like gasping when he got into the 40s and he started, you know, in the crowd when the crowd starts making that noise like, ugh, like we can't stop. Oh my God.
- [34:40]
D
Ugh.
- [34:41]
A
What do we do? It was just a lot of gasping and he just murdered them and they really needed the game. What's different about him? He's shooting 68%. He, he's on pace to be our first 60, 40, 80 guy. He leads the league in NBA in rebounds and assists. He's six in points, he's taking three shots less a game and he's still averaging at 29, 13 and 11. And he has a 21 net rating plus. So in other words, typical Yoka jeer, but slightly better. But what are you seeing? Anything that's different?
- [35:13]
C
Yeah, for sure.
- [35:15]
A
So what is it?
- [35:16]
C
Here's what it is. He Absolutely 100% is fresher. And their acquisition of Valentunas is one of the real underrated signings in this league. Because when he would go out of the game before, think about the backup centers that he's played with since he's been there, right over the last five, six years. So when he would go to the bench, like they felt so inadequate offensively and everything they were going to do, it just ends up presence and on the glass that he rarely would sit as long as he's sitting now with his second sub in the second half. So basically from the start of the fourth quarter he would usually get about three minutes and he's back in the game because he had to be back in the game because now the game's on the line. You got nine minutes to go win this game and you only have so many of those nights that you're going to be able to be in that position to go win the game right now in a one possession game. Now this is two games in a row. He just watched every second of their last two games. He sat the first six plus minutes of the fourth quarter and it's also in the first half. His minutes are down to 33 minutes a game. They have gotten more depth, they've got more spacing around him. He feels better. I think he's invigorated by the fact that they're back in the mix. Even though they took Oklahoma City to seven games a year ago, I don't think anybody really viewed Denver all year as a contender to actually win the title. I know they gave them a hell of a series, this team, with what they did in the off season. This feels like. You know what? It wasn't just a one championship run with the Denver Nuggets, which a lot of people thought was. Was going to be more than that when they first won their title. I did. I thought that's not a one championship group. But then you started to think after last year, like maybe it was. They completely hit the reset button with their depth. Their bench was not good enough last year. It is now. Takes a lot of pressure off his shoulders as a result. He's fresher. I agree with you. Because he's fresher. He's. He's. He's processing his own scoring opportunities in an aggressive manner that's quicker and more decisive than when he's a little bit fatigued and he immediately goes into looking around and then dribble handoff game. When he's feeling like he is now and you're going to play him a certain way, he's going to go eat. And that's basically what he did last night. First of all, there's no way I'm playing Jokic straight up as much as they did last night.
- [37:41]
A
It was crazy.
- [37:42]
C
I mean, he did.
- [37:43]
A
He just.
- [37:43]
C
He's just. Oh, here we go. It looked like a guy in the driveway with his.
- [37:46]
A
They gave Zubac a little too much credit, I think because he had some good moments against him last year. So like. Well, we could try this because of Zoo and he just. He annihilated Zoo and then he. He was even meaner to Lopez.
- [37:57]
C
Yeah. And look, and you talk about two guys like Zubich. I believe he was on one of the all defensive teams last year.
- [38:02]
A
Was. He was great last year.
- [38:04]
C
Like third team, all defense or something.
- [38:05]
A
Yeah.
- [38:06]
C
Lopez has. Has been on the all defensive team in this league now. He's older now and he's more of a rim protector than he is like guard guys one on.
- [38:12]
A
I think he retired after last night. I didn't. The official announcement didn't happen and somebody.
- [38:17]
C
Made a good point on social media. Like they're like, they watched every shot he made and they're trying to see like at any point did he hit the rim? Like, no display of touch.
- [38:26]
A
Right in the middle of it. It's unbelievable.
- [38:28]
C
And look, last night he was. He missed three of his first four shots, and then he just went 17 for 19. Somebody sent me, and I'm trying to find it because. Have you seen his shooting splits from distances?
- [38:41]
A
He's. Isn't he. I think he's like 70% on twos or something.
- [38:46]
C
No, here's what he's shooting. Yes, 70. He's like 78% on twos. Here's from distances. Zero to three feet. This is prior to last night, so I have a feeling it went up.
- [38:58]
A
Yeah.
- [38:58]
C
Okay. 0 to 3ft. He's 92% from the field. Okay, 3 to 10ft. 70% from the field. 10 to 16ft. 73% from the field.
- [39:10]
A
Wow.
- [39:10]
C
16Ft out to the three point line, which is a very small sample size. But he's. He hasn't missed all season. And then he's shooting. Whatever. He's shooting from the three, which is like 41% from the three. Good luck.
- [39:24]
A
Well, you talk about the fatigue thing, because I was thinking about that too yesterday, and he had a quote. I think it was last night, but I saw it in the last 24 hours about the bench. They're like, what's different about the team this year? And he's like, we have a veteran bench. We have experienced guys that come in now. I feel like I'm in good hands when we go to the bench. He said something like that. Don't quote me on the exact thing, but I was thinking, like, he goes to the bench last year and it's stressful when he's on the bench, right? You're in your bench, you're resting, but you're also like, I hope we don't fuck it up. Do I have to go back in now? He's just like, I'm gonna go to the bench and relax and hang out and watch these guys and we'll be fine. And I just, I saw a guy last night that was. That really liked the team he had and really had an edge, you know, Like I. It, like, there's no question there's some Wemby stuff happening. There's the OKC thing. There's a lot of Giannis talk. There's Houston and, you know, he's like, not that he's reading the clips, but I really think he believes in the team they have. What's interesting is Cam Johnson has sucked from a shooting standpoint this season, and Brown's not shooting well either. So there's like another level for these guys to go. They're nine and two. They lost that game. First game against Golden State, first game of the year that they should have won. They had a stupid lost to Portland. Portland's beaten both OKC and Denver somehow. But I watched that game on Halloween. Really dumb loss. They should have won that. And that's it. Like they've been. They're second in offense, second in defense with, with rating and they're, you know, these two shooters that they thought they were going to have aren't even shooting the ball well. Hardaway is, but I feel like they have a level to go up.
- [41:03]
C
They definitely do. And I think the other thing I noticed last year about Jokic and I mentioned it several times throughout the season, he was overtly, incredibly frustrated last year. Remember the times they, you see videos of him and he'd be standing up in the huddle of timeouts and just ranting and like slapping his hand and he'd be so friend sit down on the court. He got caught up in all these weird things with defenders where he was just like trying so desperately to like get an off the ball foul by running for the cut but like grabbing the guy at the same time where they both fall to the ground. And I'm like what?
- [41:33]
A
And ref stuff too. There, there was some ref stuff that was unusual for him last year.
- [41:40]
C
I think it's because he didn't think he had a good enough bill. I really do. And I think now he believes they're back in it. This to think it's hard to imagine the guy that's won 3 MVPs could be playing his best basketball. But I honestly believe he's playing his best basketball right now. And one last point about him, Oklahoma City's defense, which we talked about a lot here in the beginning, this is the 1 player in the league that I feel like can operate in a, in still a dominant way against them because it might not be, you know, 40 point game, but he can control the game against Oklahoma City's defense. And if you look at all the other elite scorers in this league and the way they have to go about it, they're not going to pick you apart with their passing for the most part. They're not going to go get 20 rebounds if that's what it takes against Oklahoma City. So like his overall way of dominance and the way he can operate against one on one defenders, even against the elite guys that OKC has, he can still do his thing against them. And a lot of guys are going to struggle to have their normal average game against this defense. Jokic can. And that's why right now I agree with you. It's. And I think Houston would be the next team on my list in the West.
- [42:53]
A
Me too.
- [42:54]
C
But I don't think they're quite on Denver's level right now.
- [42:57]
A
You know, two. Two notes from last night that I really was thinking about on the drive home, which isn't a short drive because the Intuit Dome is pretty far away from basically everything. First of all, I think he's the best offensive player I've ever seen in person. And I don't say that lightly. I'm not saying he's the best scorer, I'm not saying he's the best player, but he's the best offensive player I've ever seen in person. He can just do everything. He sucks the life out of the crowd. The defenses don't really know what to do against him. They try these weird tactics. It doesn't work. And I just think I've just never seen anybody better than them. And I really decided that last night, once and for all. I was trying to think about, like, where is he in my top ten? Like, and he. And he's just getting closer and closer to that Bird, Magic, Duncan kind of level for me. One title I think hurts. Probably legacy wise, he needs another one. But he's at least, like, he's at least what Wilt was in the 60s. Like, the shit we're watching year after year after year, you got to put him there. The other thing is, I think he's my favorite player to see in person of this century. And it was either him or Curry, where it's just like, I'm going to drive down on a Wednesday. They're playing here, I get to go see Blank. And I think him and Curry are in the finals. And I think I enjoy the Jokic experience a little bit more because there's so much going on and he's the maestro of everything and he's telling everybody what to do and he's just so locked in the way Duncan was. But it's just everything feeds off him. It's just fucking amazing to watch. It really is.
- [44:36]
C
Listen, I don't think anything you just said is remotely even. Somebody could come at you aggressively in a debate and say, what are you talking about? Because I completely agree with you. For me, I've put Curry second all time for just flat out must see behind Jordan.
- [44:53]
A
Yes, I think that's Fair. Jordan's going to be my number one all time, removing Bird and Magic.
- [44:59]
C
And I got some of those up close and personal because I was on the court watching that. So it's like, you know, you just kind of know what that was about. But then I like the way you put it this century. So, like, put that, you know, the 80s era, which you and I both love, and I loved those Celtics teams in the 80s like you did. Larry Bird's my favorite athlete of all time, so we have a lot in common that way. And then, then, you know, you got the Jordan era that's kind of his. And now you go, okay, this century, then let's, let's go. There's a lot of guys that are super entertaining that are, you know, top 10 players all time in that, in that category. For me, in terms of holy hell, he's playing. I have to see this tonight. Curry would be the next guy for me. But I understand why somebody could make the argument for Jokic too, because it's at the point now the stuff he does is blowing your mind with his. And I think for me, like, I'd say, what's his number one trait? Is it. Is it the passing or for a big guy? Now for me, it's the touch and the hands.
- [46:00]
A
How about the hands? Has anyone ever had better hands?
- [46:03]
C
No, nobody. Nobody. Nobody. And I look, there's some guys that would have been good people to put in that argument, but I think he. Now he's separated himself for everybody. It's the best set of hands I've ever seen on an NBA player. His touch and his ability and natural sense of, of distance, of depth perception, because he shoots the ball sometimes coming out of a spin when you know for a fact he has not located the rim yet.
- [46:28]
D
Right.
- [46:28]
C
And he's already going into his shooting motion and it's incredible. And it ball ends up hitting nothing. It is so soft and it just drops in. So like his innate sense of touch and distance from anywhere on the court, but particularly those areas like 18ft in and some of the difficult because he's not getting off the ground and he still. And you still are just so helpless against his release point. It's crazy, man.
- [46:55]
A
Yeah, the Curry thing, it's. It's good to talk about both those guys because I think the thing they share other than just. It's just you've never seen anything like it when you see them in person is they're just complete one on ones like.
- [47:07]
C
Yes.
- [47:07]
A
I just don't feel like we're seeing another one again. Jokic has these. He has this Bird Magic Walton hybrid thing. Like, all guys that I grew up loving watch him play basketball, and somehow he has pieces of all those guys. Curry I've never seen before. But you go to the arena and you're like, I just get to see something that doesn't exist. After this guy stops playing, it's just gone. And that. The other thing I love with Jokic, which some guys have had, and this was one of my favorite things about seeing Kobe in person, like, they just really give a shit. They just. There's like a crazy competitiveness on every single thing. They're always like. And I don't mean, like, bitching about calls, but they're always just exasperated, lobbying, pointing, pushing. Like, they're just really locked into the result. And I was with my friend Mike Tolan last night, who I shared tickets with. Jokic had like, 50 or 52 or 48, I don't remember. And we were arguing about, does he know how many points he has? And we decided, no. I don't think he. I don't think he had any idea, because I don't think he cares. I don't think he looks up. It's not. He didn't play any differently when he had 48 points. It's not like, oh, I gotta get mine now. He was still making all the right plays, and it was just really cool to watch. He would have been fine at, like, oh, I guess I got 48. I don't think he would probably find out after, right?
- [48:23]
C
I think that's probably true. And I also think there. I think also for guys that score, shoot, whatever. I do think there's, like, an internal scoreboard in your head. Like, even if you're not actively looking at the board or grabbing a stat sheet at halftime, you are sort of acutely aware of, you know, you're hot. Yeah. Yeah. And even, like, the exact number, pretty much. But he might be the exception. You might be right. Because I could see him and at the game, be easier to see if he's out of the game. Like, not glancing up at the board at all, just kind of sitting there. Here's the thing. What if this game, it was required of him to play another, you know, eight minutes, he would have 65.
- [49:08]
A
Well, so we started rooting for the Clippers to come back because it was right around 20, near the end of the third quarter. And we're like, we need a Clipper run. We need him to have to go back in because he might Be able to get 70, but they couldn't have.
- [49:21]
C
Blasted well, Think about this. You got two guys that we just talked about combined five MVPs, five titles, four for Curry, and last night they scored 101 points between them. Right.
- [49:33]
A
Right. A couple other Nuggets notes, quick. You've done games with them in person this year, right? Have you done a Nuggets game yet or no.
- [49:39]
C
Denver. Yeah, I've done Denver game.
- [49:43]
A
I don't know how, but Gordon's just bigger. Yeah, Gordon's just mammoth. And I thought he was big last year, but. And by the way, he's playing great. All his shooting stuff's up. But you know, it's funny. Like, one of the narratives with the Clippers was we got John Collins because Gordon killed us in the playoffs and we needed like a forward with size. Aaron Gordon's way bigger than John Collins. He looks like he's like 40 pounds heavier and he moves. And he just looks like he's a tight end. Like he looks like he should be on the Chiefs with Mahomes.
- [50:17]
B
Totally agree.
- [50:18]
C
Yeah, he's a. And it's obviously he's serious about taking care of his body and like, what.
- [50:24]
A
He comes in looking like, moving great. The whole thing. So that was one. I thought Murray had his. Murray didn't do anything last night, but you could just tell he had his explosiveness because a year ago at this time he was out of shape. And then I really liked how Hardaway looked and that. That's somebody I've always liked as, like, I think you need those random bench guys, especially in a playoff series, like in a seven game series. Can you get hot twice for us? I still think he's got some, some juice left. So, yeah, I would have them number two. And then conversely, this Clippers thing is a disaster. And I don't know if it gets better because, and I look, I understand why they traded Norm Powell. They. They didn't want to pay him. He was entering his. His final year of his contract. He wanted an extension. They didn't want to give it to him. They want to save cap space for two years. I get it. They thought they tried to get smart. We'll get John Collins. We'll put Bradley Beal. Bradley Beal will give us the Powell stuff. Bradley Beal is out for the year. Ty Lue said after the game yesterday, we just lost our third best player. It's like, did you just say Bradley Beals, your third best player? Like your third best bench player or your third best actual player? Because you have Harden and Kawhi Leonard and Zubots. And I'm, I'm positive Bradley Beals is better than Zubots, but whatever, you can say that. But this gamble just failed because what Powell did for them last year was he would carry their offense for like five, six minutes, right? Or if Kawhi wasn't playing, it's like, well, we have Harden. We're also going to get 25 from Norm Powell tonight. And now they don't have it. And it's all hardened and role players and then Kawhi plays every once in a while and this team's not going to make the playoffs, I don't think.
- [52:06]
C
Yeah, they have a totally different feel about them now. And I saw them in the preseason and I was so impressed. And Kawhi played that night. Beal didn't play, but Kawhi played that night. And he, he looked great. I mean, he, he looked lean and he was bouncy and I'm going, man, and that night, Lopez played great. They played the two bigs together sometimes and that worked. It was a preseason game, but it was against Denver, actually, and both teams played for about two and a half quarters to win. So it had a different feel about a preseason game. So you actually could learn something from it. And I walked away from that saying, man, the Clippers like they're going to kind of be in the mix a little bit in the west because last year they were one of the top five defensive rated teams in the league. And I loved their athletes on the wings and they could pressure the ball. Powell took a lot of pressure off of Harden and Harden had a very good year because he had Powell there to go get 20 on a bad night, 35 on a good night, and Harden could pick his lane a little bit more. And then Kawhi missed half the season, but he was upright for the rest.
- [53:14]
A
Of the year, Right? He looked great, right?
- [53:16]
C
And so you're thinking, okay, and then you got the Derek Jones is in the duns of the world and these guys, the coffees and they get after people. It's like, man, okay, and now you got. You add some depth and some vets that can play, but man, oh, man, Bill might be done.
- [53:30]
A
I mean, for this year.
- [53:33]
C
Yeah, no, but I mean, might be done, period. You're talking about three weeks into the season. You know, you're shutting down for the year. That's man, oh, man, oh, man. I mean, who knows where it leads with Bradley. I hope not. I hope he comes back. But I'm just Saying that is pretty serious. And as a guy that has had injuries already, Kawhi hurt now, sprained knee, sprained foot. I mean, it doesn't sound like it's going to be too long, but you also go, man, you know, last year, once he came back, he kind of stayed back. And now he's. And so you thought I said going into this summer, the best thing to come out of last year was that Kawhi Leonard went into the summer for the first time in, like, five years healthy. So all he could focus on was like, his body and his game and.
- [54:14]
A
Not read his ankle. Right. So maybe that's. Maybe he'd come back from that. But, yeah, just bad luck coming out of the gate.
- [54:19]
C
But it's his knee, too. They're saying it's his knee and his foot.
- [54:22]
B
And then.
- [54:23]
C
So now, I don't know, who knows? Is it going to be one of those things where he's in and out of the lineup all the time? And now there's more pressure on Harden again, which he shouldn't have to carry that kind of load at this stage of his career. So you're right, it's.
- [54:35]
A
And no heat check guy. There's no guy who's like, hey, for four minutes, can you get us some buckets here? No.
- [54:40]
C
And the other thing, 12 of their next 14 games are on the road.
- [54:46]
A
And the other thing, they're in the west, which has some really good teams.
- [54:50]
C
You know, they could. As. As. As the late, great Yogi Berra used to say. Right. It could get late, early out here, and it could for them, too. You're talking about. That's a month of Basically Road Games 3 and 8.
- [55:03]
A
You figure new Orleans, Dallas, Sacramento, Utah, Memphis would be the five that you would say, UDA said before the season, maybe weren't going to be in the plan or maybe Portland over. But Portland feels like if. If Holiday is going to be healthy, they're going to get some guys back. Portland might be like a.500 or better team.
- [55:22]
C
They play hard. And there's been some teams that really good defensively, impressed me with that with like, level of just effort there. You know, who else is playing harder? A lot harder. And it's been nice to watch Phoenix.
- [55:33]
A
Yeah.
- [55:34]
C
Last year I would watch that team and I'd go, man, this is just so bad. Like, the level of effort defensively. Forget that. Like, you know, the off. Some of the offensive stuff that we focused on so much with those guys trying to play together, it was more to me about. Okay, well, all right. That's some rough sledding some nights because you got a weird mix of guys. You don't have a true point guard, but. But how about the other end of the floor? Can you compete a little bit? They didn't this year that they're playing harder. And I would have a good coach in that category, too. Yeah.
- [56:03]
A
Jordan Phoenix. Yeah. And they have better chemistry, obviously. You know, it's still early. They're seven and five. But I'm. I've been pleasantly surprised. Portland feels more real to me because with Clingan and Camara and Holiday, they actually have three elite defensive guys. I don't know if Clingan can play more than 25, 26 minutes a game, but when he's out there, you feel it. All the advanced metrics with him. He's probably the best rated defensive center in the league by. If you want to go deep dive, advanced stuff. But back to the Clippers, like, they don't have their pick. They're not going to be like, okay, fine, I guess we're going to go 2557. Like, to me, they're the number one desperate team now. And like Zach theorized on his pot on Wednesday that they could be a Davis home. I just don't think they have anything to give up because it's basically, they have the Collins expiring and the Bogdanovich expiring. They could patch together contracts, but they don't have the asset. They don't have the awesome young player to put in the trade. And I just can't. If I'm Dallas, I'm just not giving away Davis. I'm keeping him. But I do wonder, like, could they start talking themselves into a Zach Levine? Could they start talking themselves into a Ja Morant? Like. Like there's guys that are going to be out there that are glass half empty, glass half full guys. I just listed two. There's more. And it feels like somebody who can score. I think you got to move sooner than later because it's not sustainable what they have.
- [57:32]
C
Well, and they're in that. They're one of those teams that. And it happens sometimes in this league, they fall into that category of they loaded up with an older roster and it's going off the rails a little bit. It kind of feels like kind of.
- [57:43]
A
Like a certain NFL team you might like.
- [57:45]
C
Yeah, no kidding. Tell me about it. It's. I'm such. I'm so depressed. I'm so depressed.
- [57:50]
D
I know.
- [57:51]
A
I'm sorry. I just shouldn't have brought that up.
- [57:52]
C
I Just, I love the NFL so much and it's just, I, I just don't even care right now about watching. I'm just so depressed about the whole thing.
- [57:59]
B
Yeah.
- [58:00]
C
But yes. Anyway, that's a, that's a pretty good analogy. And so when that happens, it's not like they can go, okay, we're, you know, let's go to now the next phase, which is a total rebuild five years from now. See, no, like you got guys on your roster that you still have to. It's incumbent upon you to try to win with, but you don't have enough right now and you've got some health issues. They're going to be, Yeah, I would think they're going to be actively trying to figure something out to bring an infusion of talent and scoring because their offense has been terrible. And by the way, their defense was top five last year. Their bottom five this year.
- [58:36]
A
They could have, they could hang the banner of. We won the summer of 2025. We won the off season. That was the consensus coming out of the summer. The Clippers have won the off season. Well, Beals gone, right? Chris Paul is, I don't think is playable anymore. I think people were excited about that.
- [58:54]
C
I think he had back to back healthy scratches. Right.
- [58:56]
A
I mean, yeah, I don't, I think it's over would be my guess. And you know, you, you put that team, we talked about okc, San Antonio, how young and scary they are, Houston, how young and scary they are. The Lakers have Luka, Minnesota. I'm not sure what they are yet going down the line. It's. I think it's pretty rough for them. So I think they're a desperate trade waiting to happen.
- [59:19]
C
I agree.
- [59:20]
A
And maybe they patch some sparrings together or whatever they have to do. I have to bring up my favorite team, my favorite surprise team of the year. But we gotta take one more break really quick. This episode is brought to you by TikTok. Sports fans love to discover the next greatest player of all time. TikTok applies that passion to the whole game. You'll find fans breaking down games, people teaching the math behind advanced stats, even communities showing how sports connect to bigger cultural moments. One scroller you're watching a trick shot, the next you're taking in the physics that make it happen. It's not just watching, it's learning, discovering and sharing with millions of fans every day. There's something new to discover on TikTok. This episode is brought to you by Bilt. Renting can have benefits, especially if you use Bilt Bilt is a rewards program designed for renters, letting you earn more from what's probably your largest monthly expense. By paying rent through Bilt, you earn flexible points that can be redeemed through hundreds of hotels and airlines, a future rent payment, and more. Bilt also makes your entire neighborhood more rewarding. By simply eating at your favorite local restaurants or going to certain fitness studios, you can earn additional points. Maybe finally you can take your family in that dream vacation you've been putting off. Get more from your running experience. Sign up@joinbuilt.com bill that's J-O-I N B I L T.com Bil Fando puts NBA fans in control, allowing you to choose your own reward every single Friday. Choose between a no sweat bet versus a bet back token versus a 50% profit boost token. Whatever you want to do before you place your bets, check out the FanDuel Sportsbook app. Choose the reward that best fits your betting style. To practice choosing our own rewards, we're going to choose among three options for the following topics. Question number one Coolest NBA cup court Pacers, Knicks or Spurs? I'm going to say the Spurs. I really thought they did a good job and I can take or leave these NBA cup courts, but I did like the spurs. One super weird. If we're going to do an NBA cup court, let's get weird. Question number two most likely to go for 50 plus tonight. Brunson's not playing so it's between Wemby and Curry. I'd actually go with Wemby on this because I think at some point he is due for a 50 point game. He's always in the vicinity of just getting super hot and it's never quite happened. Maybe it'll happen on Friday. Question number three Most likely to win their next game first in November. The Wizards or the Commanders? I'm going to say the Wizards for this because every once in a while they could just make some threes. I don't see a scenario where their Commanders win anytime soon and I asked Hassan about this and he agreed. So no matter how you play, FanDuel's giving you the power to choose your reward. Be sure to make your choice in the app on Friday. Well, let me ask you this first. We're only 11 games in. What's the number one thing you were the most wrong about that you thought heading into the season I would probably you would take a mulligan on probably say the Heat. Okay, explain.
- [62:23]
C
Well, and it's funny. One thing I'VE been doing this a long time. I own it if I say something. And look, by the way, we're 12 games in, so. So this still could go either way, but. And the word I used to describe them was boring. And because you're talking about, you know, of course you're doing your normal, you know, preseason predictions and you're going down every team in the league. And I'm just like, we get to the heat and they're just like, yeah, okay. What I mean, like, they're going to.
- [62:52]
A
What is this team?
- [62:53]
C
They're going to be 500ish. You know, Spoelster is, is. Is one of my all time favorite coaches. So it's not that he's going to have them as ready as you can and as well prepared as you can and in game adjustments are going to be there. But I just looked at their roster and I would. I was saying, who do you like, really love to watch play? That's really what it came down to. And that's why I made the comment they're kind of boring. I don't think they've got enough offense, even though they brought in Norman Powell. And I'm like, okay, maybe they win a few more games because you brought North Powell. Just the way that they have to play doesn't do it for me. So I don't really consider them as like a team.
- [63:33]
A
By the way, Splulster agreed with you.
- [63:35]
C
Yeah, yeah.
- [63:36]
A
Bolster's like, it doesn't do it for me either. How do we have a new offense? What do I. I can't watch this again.
- [63:41]
C
So that's how I guess I'm most wrong, Bill. Not only was I wrong about just because look, they're seven and five. I mean, that's not earth shattering. I mean, maybe I thought they'd be 5 and 7 right now. I don't know. No big deal there. It's how they're playing.
- [63:53]
A
Yeah, they're fun to watch.
- [63:54]
C
The pace and the entertainment value that they're playing with that caught me completely off guard. I just didn't see how they could do it, what they had. It's very difficult to kind of reinvent your style completely from one year to the next.
- [64:09]
A
Right.
- [64:09]
C
Jaime Hawkez has really bounced back from like last year when I was kind of like, man, because I liked him so much when he first came into the league and I knew what was going on. He looks great this year.
- [64:19]
A
Can you win most improved just because you sucked the year before and you were super disappointing and then you became good Again, is that, does that qualify?
- [64:27]
C
You know what, I love this conversation. So here's what I think. If you reached a level and for him it was just a rookie year, but still he played at a certain level and then you take a big dip and then you reclaim that. Plus maybe a little bit more right over what you were. No, I think he should be probably disqualified from that award.
- [64:47]
A
I would say he's DQ'd.
- [64:48]
C
Yeah.
- [64:49]
A
This is the guy we thought he was going to be last year and he was super disappointing. So, yeah, you don't qualify. Sorry, Jaime Hackers, by the way, but.
- [64:55]
C
That award, it's interesting because I was talking about this. Clearly it came up with A.J. mitchell situation, everyone. I actually think in some ways the word is almost more about most improved opportunity. Because like A.J. mitchell, I'm watching him play and I'm going, okay, I have a feeling he was doing a lot of this stuff last year, but we didn't see it because he wasn't really playing every night. It's not like, oh, all of a sudden he added that handle to his game in one year or his three point shooting. No. In the small taste we got of him last year, like there's something this guy can play, but so it's more about he got the opportunity this year for a lot of reasons and he has jumped off.
- [65:34]
A
It's a stupid award, Legs. I don't. It's my least favorite award other than the clutch award.
- [65:39]
C
Explain, explain.
- [65:41]
A
I just. How do you quantify most improved? Right. It usually comes down to somebody added a three point shot or somebody got more minutes or, I don't know, like younger players should get better as they keep playing and keep adding seasons under their belt.
- [65:56]
C
Yeah. I think what you're saying is, and this is where I will agree with you, the reality is if you took 30 teams in this league, there's probably about 90 dudes that if you really looked at their game from last year to this year and what they've improved on and added and how much better players are, there literally could probably be about 90 guys you could say it about.
- [66:17]
A
So could you say it about Davion Mitchell? Like, he's like, Davion Mitchell I've always liked and if I had been a GM, I 100% would have traded for at some point. I was always waiting for him to find the right team, but he didn't ever really get to play and now he's playing on Miami. So does that mean he's most improved or is it like what you said is it just best opportunity, something like that. I think they should have a where the fuck did you come from? Award because then AJ Mitchell would be the winner. Austin Reeves a couple years ago, maybe Jordan Walsh, if he can keep the momentum with the Celtics, maybe we can get something done.
- [66:55]
C
Change the name of that.
- [66:57]
A
Did you see Jordan Walsh defending Tyrese Maxey down the stretch of the last Philly game?
- [67:01]
C
I highly encourage you most of the second half of that game.
- [67:06]
A
It was the most exciting moment of the Celtics season. Maxi's been lights out. Yeah, Walsh shut him down down the stretch. Celtics lost the game. Moral victory, which is, I guess, all we're going to get. All right. I'm going to get my thing. I was the most wrong about and I was pretty in on. On my opinion on this team. I had the under for them. I thought they were going to be disappointing. I didn't see it. And it was the Detroit Pistons and I've watched them a bunch of times. I was definitely wrong. The thing I guess I couldn't have anticipated was what happened with Duran. And I haven't heard anyone talk about this like you want to talk about most improved. I know he was top five rebounder. He's different this year. He's just this aggro, alpha, old school, badass center who seems like he came out of, like 1994, really, really competitive, kind of relentless. And I think with him and Cade, who went up a tiny level, but he was good last year. And then Thompson's getting more minutes and that's your foundation. With the way Duran has kind of evolved and emerged, the team makes sense to me. It didn't make sense to me before the season, but now I'm like, yeah, if you have those three guys, you have some shooters. Robinson has fit in. That was another one I was dubious of. He seems happy.
- [68:31]
C
Oh, you and I. You and I should have had a conversation then back in like August or September, because I had you like the.
- [68:36]
A
Robinson going into the season.
- [68:38]
C
I had them as high as third. I said, wow. I said, Cleveland, Knicks 1, 2. How you know, probably Cleveland 1 because they won 64 games last year. They ran it back. If they stay healthy, they're probably going to win, you know, in that close range again, the Knicks, you know, getting to 60 might be hard. So you're like, okay, there'll probably be two. And then you start going with the. I broke down those. That next, like five or six teams in the middle, obviously, Boston, Indiana, dealing with stuff. So then you got Milwaukee, Philly.
- [69:05]
A
I had Milwaukee in That spot.
- [69:06]
C
Yeah, I had. I had Detroit, Orlando, 3, 4. So Orlando has been a little disappointing for me, but I think they're playing a little bit better.
- [69:14]
A
It's coming around. Yeah, it's coming around. The Detroit thing. I just never thought Durham was going to be this good, even. Even though I know he was good last year, but now, you know, he's like a legitimate 20, 2012 guy. He's a guy that. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I. I think they have to think about him for 20, 28, for the Olympics, if he's. If this is who he's going to be. Because to have a center with. I think they're going to need centers with size three years from now. And we're going to need a couple like big badass dudes that can bang bodies. And he's in there for me. But what I really like about this team. And Kade played football like he's, you know, just this really turned into this aggro kind of nasty player. I mean that as a compliment. And Duran's kind of nasty. Both Thompson twins, even though they. They're these handsome kids that seem like they're. But they're. Both of them have a little fuck you in them. Yeah. Then they have Holland, they have Stewart. This is just like a really tough, competitive team and they're competitive night after night after night. So I'm in. I was wrong. I think. I think this has a chance to be the three seed.
- [70:23]
C
Well, I tell you why. I had a little bit also of kind of firsthand knowledge of like, what I felt about them. I called one of their playoff games against the Knicks last year. Do you remember the game? It was. I believe it was Game 4 in Detroit. The game at the end of the game and Hardaway got fouled. They didn't call it on the three.
- [70:43]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [70:45]
C
And I'm telling you, I was calling that game with Dave Pass. And I said at one point, I think it would be easier to complete Navy SEAL training than to get to the rim right now against the Pistons in this game. And the Knicks played really good defense too. That was, that was. You talk about old school, you know, 90s basketball. So I'm watching this team, first of all, just the toughness, like how physical they are. They do have an elite offensive player as their main focal point in Cade Cunningham. And then it's all these other guys that like with their athleticism and enough shot making. And then they went out and they added a guy that I think really helps Them and Douglas Robinson, the spacing. Because last year they had Tim Hardaway Jr. They had Beasley. Those guys are like. But they're streaky. Duncan Robinson, if you. If he's going to take 10, 12 shots a game, and obviously, you know, 90% of those are going to be threes. He's going to shoot 40%. He's going to do it, like, most nights. And he. And he's. Look, he's not a stopper defensively, but he's very conscientious defender, and he's long, and he doesn't mind running around and chasing guys. So his spacing's been great. And Kevin has been a nice pickup for them, too, because they needed more offense. They needed. You know, what are we going to do on those nights when, like, Cade doesn't have it going and, like, our defense isn't going to be enough, you know, we can't win 105, 103 all the time in this league. If Kate Cunningham has a bad night, I think they've addressed it, man. And now they've won, what, eight straight? And the game. Yeah, actually, the game they won the other night against Washington, even though it's the Wizards. I watched that whole second half in overtime.
- [72:20]
A
I did, too.
- [72:20]
C
Oh, you did? Okay. So they had no business winning that game.
- [72:24]
A
And that's why I kept watching it, because they had won. They had won a really good game the night before against Philly that I thought was like, oh, we're. We're for real. Take us seriously. And then, of course, they're down 20 against Washington. I'm like, I wonder if they're going to come back from this. This will be a nice little test for what we have with Detroit. They came back.
- [72:42]
C
They did. And McCollum hits the runner with 14 seconds left to go up 5.14seconds, and they won the game on a crazy inbound three. And then it went in overtime. But my point is, I know it's the Wizards, but that's a game that they easily could have just been like, you know what? It's just not. It's not our night. Like, it's not our night.
- [73:04]
B
Right?
- [73:04]
C
Kind of. Kind of wave the flag in the middle of the third quarter. Those are the kind of games that, like, teams that are, like, coming into their own win, they find a way to win a game on a night against a bad team. When you got outplayed, you don't deserve to win. JB is about to lay into you guys when you get into the locker room, and next thing you know, you know, you do what you have to at the end of the game to get the win. It was. It was. That was an impressive thing for me for a young team to do in an 82 game season. And now here they are, man 10 and two, number one in the Eastern Conference. So I was very high on them, but I didn't. I didn't think they would be at any point like first in the conference, but they're taking advantage of some stuff. The Knicks. And the Knicks are going to probably be without Brunson for a little bit right now.
- [73:44]
A
Yeah, I think it's legit. I'm all in. And I love Cade's experience as a franchise guy will probably never be replicated where he goes to a bad team and then that team craters as badly as a team can crater. And that winning streak, which he took really hard and openly talked about, he's got this coach that doesn't want to be there. There's 97 things that go wrong. And now I just see a guy when I'm watching, flipping around tv, he just seems like he cares the most out of anybody who's on any of the TVs. Like, I just think he's on a mission now.
- [74:19]
C
He's a leader and he's. Which is why you want so smooth and. Yeah, he's. He's such a physical presence at that position. He gives them an awful lot of, like, security. They run onto the floor every night and they've already got this toughness about them, but they also know we also have this guy that every night is capable of being the best player in this game. That gives them a lot of confidence.
- [74:41]
A
They're. They're almost more like a football team then the last team. I want to talk about really quickly, you know, Houston, it's a little early. The fact that shepherd is floating out there at crunch time for them, I think is super important because I was in my head, I was like, they're probably gonna have to make a trade if they. They don't want to waste this Durant window, but they might be able to not make a trade and just keep what they have. There's a Durant piece that's happening where he seems as locked in and as happy and as this was not the guy from Phoenix, I'll just put that this is a guy who seems like he's all in on this team, really likes playing with these guys, respects the coach. And I was thinking about all different coaches he's had. He's never really had a coach like, IME.
- [75:33]
C
Very true.
- [75:33]
A
Where if. Whatever. IMEI's one of those guys and he definitely did it in Boston. All right, end of the meeting. Can everybody leave? I just want to hang back here with Jaylen Brown. Okay. Everybody leaves, then he locks the door. Only one of us is going to leave. We're settling this now. He's like an all time in your face, direct conversation, not putting up with any bullshit guy. And I think it's actually good for Durant. That's as dopey as that sounds.
- [76:04]
C
No, I think that's a great observation and I think it's exactly what Kevin Durant needs in this situation at this stage of his career. And I love that about Eme Udoka. And that's why I think this team we know right now, you and I both agree it's okc. Denver's right there. Houston's would be the next team. But there's a little bit of separation.
- [76:23]
A
I would have Houston and Cleveland if we're going to go both conferences. I still think with the way Tyson has come on for Cleveland, when they have everybody back, I still feel like they have a level to them. So I'd have Cleveland, Houston, maybe in that area.
- [76:36]
C
Houston went out and they. They added what the one thing they didn't have and that. That because last year I loved their team. I loved watching how hard they played. But they had some really questionable decision making in close games. You know, Jalen Green was a wild card. You couldn't run your offense always through Shangoon, so they didn't know what to do. And now you go out, well, we got a solution. Now this is a guy that can go score at any time in the game against any. There's no answer for Kevin Durant offensively now. Dave Leak goes down. I said the same thing you did. I said it before the season. If Reed shepherd isn't ready, they might have to take a step and make a move. Because you didn't bring Kevin Durant thinking about the horizon over the next few years. You think about winning this year and every year he's on your roster because of where he's at in his career. So they might have to do something. And Reed shepherd didn't start out great, but he's found his rhythm. And I think it started with this. And this is just so important to me in watching his game. I'm saying, listen, he's athletic, he's quick, he's got a really. He really gets off the ground on his pull up so he can get that mid Range shot off. He's pretty active defensively as long as he's not playing against a bigger guard because those guys bully him a little bit with strength, but if it's just quickness, he's laterally pretty good. The one thing he wasn't doing was making open threes and I'm like, let's start there. Get yourself to the point where Ime Udoka and this staff isn't frustrated with you because now the other things that maybe you're not as good at right now are going to really drive them nuts and they're going to get you off the floor, make some open shots because that ultimately is something you're going to have to do with the guys that are generating these looks with Sengun and Durant. So he started doing that and now you watch him and now he's out there to do some stuff like he's like, I can play, man. Give me the ball. I can get it. The ball screen. He's got a little Mark Price in his game, like with the ball screen. He kind of reminds me more Mark than Brent now.
- [78:39]
A
It was, I was worried there was more Brent than Mark, but now it feels like we're closer on the mark C side.
- [78:44]
C
I agree. And it's look, he's got a, I'm looking at this now. He's got a five game run here. Over the last five games, four of those, five out of six in double figures the last three games. He's averaging almost 18 points a game and he is shooting 13 for 21 from the three.
- [79:00]
A
So he's over 60% putting him in the right corner. Yeah, it's, it's just interesting. I noticed it a couple of games ago. I'm like, oh, sat there. Kind of a pivotal moment here. This is interesting. And now I feel like with their best five, they just kind of need one knockdown shooter. We know this guy. Defense has to think about it. So. Yeah, I thought that was good wrinkle. And I think Durant's just completely engaged. Like he's obviously bounced all over the map from a happiness standpoint over the last 20 years. I'm attached to him. He's one of my favorite players to watch. I don't know what happened to him last year. I don't know what happened in Phoenix. Nobody will talk. It was nobody's fault, apparently that we had one of the most unhappy teams of this decade. But is it. Nobody's to blame. But, but he seems really engaged with this team and I think he likes these guys and It's a no bullshit. Everybody tries, everybody plays hard. So there's a ceiling and that. But it's weird. Reed Shepherd's probably the he's probably the litmus test for how far that team's going to go because I don't if I were them, I wouldn't want to. Like I was talking about last week about Tar Eason and the Phoenix pick and Van Vlietz contract for Derek White. Like do they have to do something like that? But I wouldn't do anything. I'd rather this read shepherd thing out.
- [80:14]
C
I agree with that. And right now they're feeling pretty good. They won seven out of eight.
- [80:19]
A
Yeah, they're in the mix.
- [80:20]
C
They've got Den, they've got a pretty good stretch here. Portland, who plays hard. Orlando, Cleveland, Denver, Phoenix, Golden State. That's their next run. And so that Denver game Friday, November 21st. Hopefully everybody's healthy and available for that and maybe you can kind of really now these two teams that we're talking about, the challenge. OKC can go head to head and you can get a better idea.
- [80:41]
A
Favorite rookie before we go quick.
- [80:43]
C
I'm going number one. I'm sticking with Cooper Flag, but I love what Edgecomb has done in Philly but he's cooled off a little bit. But I still think it's all there. I'm just a, I'm a big believer in Cooper Flag as a can't miss. I think he's going to be a star in this league. He's going to have some shooting issues this year. I knew it. Their team. Obviously things are falling apart around him. So some nights it looks rough for him. I'm not even remotely like kind of swaying in my opinion of what I think Cooper Flag's going to end up being.
- [81:12]
A
Yeah, I'm not going to worry about him until he's like 22.
- [81:14]
C
You have another one besides he and Edge come. Who who standing out to you?
- [81:19]
A
I love Flag. I, I we talked about this last time playing him at point guard was, I just thought idiotic. His roster has turned out to be a really bad roster. If you take Anthony Davis and Kyrie Irving and Klay Thompson's just looks like he's washed up. Maybe he can bounce back but but we're seeing a guy who looks like he's washed up. I've been really I love Knipple in the draft. I just think he looks like he's 27 years old already. I don't like he Lamello's out. He's running offense for Them. He rebounds. He's always in the right spots, doing the right things. And I think when Lamelo and Brandon Miller comes back because they kind of hit on Kalkbrenner, he's like, oh, no doubt, in actual 30 minutes a game, half decent center. But I want to see when they have all their guys back. Kanippo is like, just.
- [82:06]
C
I will admit I may have missed it. I may have missed the ceiling down the road on Kanipple. Going into the draft, I was kind of like, man, this dude is really shooting up these draft boards. I'm like, he's going to. He's going to be a top five pick. I was like, wow, man. Okay. And. And now I see it. I see why, like, he's. You make the best point of all. He has a feel for the game that you just cannot. You cannot teach.
- [82:34]
A
Does not seem like a rookie. I love that he rebounds, too. It's like six and a half rebounds.
- [82:38]
C
Some guys don't show that bill until year three, four. Like, for him to be showing it three weeks in to his, you know, his NBA start of his NBA career, he's got a comfortability factor about him that doesn't really go with being someone his age. Playing in a league full of grown men. When you. With a lot of scrutiny on you as a high pick, most of those guys, and they have major butterflies every night, it could last half a season. Even the ones that are, like, playing pretty well, it's different for those guys. And Knipple, it looks like this is exactly where I'm supposed to be and what I'm supposed to be doing. So he's got a maturity about him that's going to really bode well, and he's going to be, I think, better overall long term than maybe I thought. I didn't think he'd be a bust or anything. I just didn't know that he'd be this good.
- [83:25]
A
Yeah, we're not allowed to bet on this award, but I do think he's a stealth rookie of the year candidate because he's going to put up stats, play big minutes. Coward's been really good. You know, the Celtics have this Hugo. I think there's something there. He's just like the guy you hated playing pickup against, where everyone's telling him to calm down. He's one of those guys, but just really athletic. Huge hands in the right spots, like good instincts. I think they might have looked out. I love this draft. I thought it was great. All right, Legs, you're calling what game tomorrow?
- [83:53]
B
Night.
- [83:53]
A
Lakers versus.
- [83:54]
C
No, I'm not. Actually. No. I'm out in LA for a studio day. I will. I'm only here to do NBA Today tomorrow. I'm on set with the NBA Today crew and then we have a game next week that was changed. We originally thought we were, I think, going to Miami for a game, but now it's going to be Dallas. And the Knicks is my next game. Next Wednesday night with, of course, Mike Breen and Richard Jefferson.
- [84:19]
A
All right, thanks for popping on. It's always a pleasure to see you. Great to see you. Thank you.
- [84:23]
C
Anytime.
- [84:24]
A
This episode is brought to you by SAP. You know, that feeling when running a business gets too demanding? The pressure to make everything happen all at once is immense. Like it's 4th and 1 and you just need that last yard to seal the win. Stop stressing so much. With the AI powered capabilities of SAP, you can streamline costs, connect with new suppliers, and manage payroll even when your business is being pulled in different directions to deliver a quality product at a fair price while paying your people what they're worth so your business can stay unfazed. Learn more@SAP.com Uncertainty. This episode is brought to you by Velveeta. Game day is all about the tailgate spread. Listen, if you're gonna have friends over, you absolutely 100% have to have a lot of things for them to eat. Everyone gets hungry. They can say they're not gonna eat, but guess what? But if you lay out the right kind of spread and you have some good cheesy creamy melty dip with some good crackers, some chips, they're probably gonna eat it. So why not do creamy shells and cheese melty velveeta box and cheesy jarred quesos? I don't know. Why wouldn't you? They're taking down one taste bud at a time. Do yourself a favor. Stock up on Velveeta before kickoff. All right, we're gonna do some ringer. 107 picks for week 11. House and I have been struggling. We're two games under.500 through 10 weeks. House doesn't think it's struggling. I wanted to be at, like, high 50s percent at this point, so I'm not happy. We're sprucing up the marriage. We're bringing in Billy Gill. He joined the ringer a couple weeks ago. He's based in Florida. House. I just. I thought we needed to get a little weird this week. And you didn't know what was going on. It's like, is this my replacement? It's just, he's here.
- [86:01]
D
He's.
- [86:01]
A
Think of him like a therapist to help us work out our relationship here.
- [86:04]
D
I mean, you talked about sprucing up the marriage, and we're going down to Southern Florida.
- [86:10]
A
Yeah, I mean, that's interesting.
- [86:12]
D
We could call Bob. Let's get some recommendations in here. I'm happy to be on here with Billy. My first question, I need to know the ground rules. Am I allowed to say bad things about the Miami Heat?
- [86:23]
A
Is that interesting?
- [86:24]
D
Is that one of these things here with Billy Gill?
- [86:26]
A
What are the red. What are the. What are the guardrails, Billy?
- [86:29]
B
Well, okay, this is interesting. First, I'm glad to find out that I'm here as, like, a therapist, because when you told me that I was being introduced into the relationship, I wasn't sure exactly my role as, like, the third here.
- [86:40]
D
It could be a massage therapist.
- [86:42]
B
Okay, well, if I'm just like, settle down.
- [86:44]
A
You just met him.
- [86:44]
B
I'm mediating here then, between the two of you maybe to make this work out.
- [86:48]
A
Mediator. What's the word? Augmenter. Is that a noun? Is that a noun? House, you were an English major. Lubricant, facilitator, gambling, lubricant, any of that stuff. So are we allowed to make Miami Heat jokes?
- [87:04]
B
You can. I mean, I don't see how it's relevant to this relationship, but look, whatever. This is a safe space. Whatever you guys feel comfortable. Comfortable doing, I'm comfortable with.
- [87:14]
A
How about Dolphins? Because though one of the games we wanted to talk about that will not be in ring or 107 for us is Dolphins commanders, which is House's team, which is one of the things. It's. It's. What is the linehouse? It's two and a half or three. It's been Miami by two and a half. Right.
- [87:29]
D
Miami's favored no matter what, which is appropriate.
- [87:32]
A
Should Miami be favored over anybody?
- [87:36]
B
I wouldn't think so, but the commanders have. They've been on a horrible run as of late. Joe, as you're familiar with the situation, this is a fun game. This is a game that I actually like this week because there's a lot of things that would indicate this is going to be a bad one, which. Tell me it might be a good one.
- [87:54]
A
What are the things you want to list? Any of them?
- [87:56]
B
Okay, so both of them are three and seven bad teams. Both of them, however, undefeated in Spain. Both have losing records internationally. Dolphins are 2 and 5. The commanders are.001. Terrible defenses. The dolphins, though, are trending up. They're 1 and O. Since Mike McDaniel decided to remove the papa shot from the locker room, which he did last week. And then after the game, I don't know if you saw. Mike McDaniel was driving around, decided that it would be a good idea to troll Bills fans at a Bills bar in Miami, and then was questioned about that, and he said, no. You know, there's a lot things going on with AI. So Dolphins.
- [88:33]
A
That's House's defense for everything.
- [88:35]
D
Everything.
- [88:36]
B
It's honestly not the worst defense, I guess. Right. Like, because you don't know anymore what's going on. Like, I've seen. I've seen Martin Luther King win WWE Championships online. Like, it's crazy what's going on right now.
- [88:49]
A
Yeah, I saw a cheetah jump into a living room and take a baby and pull the baby out of the living room. And then a very small print. It was like, AI. I was like, oh, I knew that couldn't happen.
- [88:59]
B
We have very different algorithms.
- [89:01]
A
Yeah, might have somehow. The cheetah baby. How do I get out of that? You don't want to know about House's algorithm. So do we think the Dolphins? Are they just as zigzag every other week? They're going to be good team or there's actually momentum with them at this point?
- [89:17]
B
There's no momentum with this team.
- [89:20]
D
What could.
- [89:20]
B
Like, the only thing the Dolphins do is win games that they shouldn't be winning at this point. Like, you have no business winning in a game against the Bills. All it's doing is costing you in the draft next season. The jets win. Okay, but again, that's not a positive win for them. They already got rid of their gm. You know that that was going to happen. There's this weird kind of loyalty to McDaniel for some reason. Two is going to be really hard to move just because of all the dead cat money that he's going to have. Like, I, as a Dolphins fan and someone who has a TUA jersey hanging on my wall, which is a strange purchase.
- [89:54]
A
Oh, my God. I just noticed that. Wow. You framed it and everything.
- [89:58]
B
Well, it was a whole thing. He was at the Super Bowl. He signed it. He was coming off of his best year. So I thought, you know what? I'm going to commit to this. Then the framer, when I did it, told me I would not do this. He might be cut from the team by Wednesday. And I was like. I was like, dude, this. I'm trying to give you $300. And he's like, I don't know. I don't feel good taking this from you, but I did it, and I. It's still there because I don't know where to put something that size if not on a wall.
- [90:24]
A
It looks nice.
- [90:25]
D
I get this, like, what am I supposed to do with my signed Bradley Beal jersey at this point in my life? Right. Right. Like, I can't. I mean, I'm not putting it behind me anymore.
- [90:35]
A
House has had some amazing jerseys. He had a Bob Sura jersey that he got in early days of ebay. Yeah, it's somewhere back there. Hayes is here. I got him a Tom Gugliotta jersey for one of his birthday. Like your 30th birthday or one of those.
- [90:49]
D
Yeah, yeah.
- [90:49]
A
He has some good ones, the old Bullets ones, but that nothing compared to the Giant jersey in the background. Just waiting to be. To figure out how to be stretched on the NFL salary cap for five years.
- [91:00]
B
So my two hung jerseys are a TUA jersey there and a Chris Sims jersey behind me that I got on ebay for, like, $18 that I couldn't believe was still a thing.
- [91:10]
A
Yeah.
- [91:10]
B
What a. That they sold. Yeah.
- [91:12]
D
Game, Warren.
- [91:13]
B
No, no. No chance. I mean, you've been playing many games.
- [91:17]
D
I understand.
- [91:18]
A
That's what I mean. Wait, before we move to the picks, can I ask you the seven stages of grief with Dolphin fans and tua. When did it stop being a thing that people defended and they just kind of gave into? This wasn't probably happening.
- [91:32]
B
I'm one of the last people who gave up on him, in part just because of my financial commitment to his success and my hope that one day, maybe that jersey would be valuable and worth more than the frame that it's in. This year has been such a weird two a year, because the other years, you kind of could find excuses. He had injuries, he had his concussion stuff. This year, he just, from the start, looked off. And, like, the easy thing to say is just maybe this is the CTE kicking in, because he wasn't the same guy like before. At least he'd be decisive here. He was taking too long to pass the ball, but then he'll have weeks that he'll make a throw or two throws, and you're like, you know what? Maybe. Maybe. And it's really just because, you know, there's no way out with him. Like, what do you do? You're paying him $50 million a year. You can't just get rid of him. And then even if you do, you're restarting again, which is just an ongoing thing. With the Dolphins.
- [92:27]
A
See, I'm glad House is here because as you were laying that out, House was trying to figure out the best Bullets wizard example. And what did you narrow it down to? Like six guys. Were you in that situation?
- [92:37]
D
No, I was worried.
- [92:38]
A
Nothing you could do about the salary. You just are stuck with this. Just start trying to see the silver linings.
- [92:43]
D
It's again and again and again. I was worried for half the heartbeat there that you were going to try and blaspheme Jaden Daniels. You were going to use that conversation.
- [92:52]
A
I was going to do that, yeah.
- [92:53]
D
Because I know you motherfucker. I know how you, how you roll.
- [92:55]
A
I wouldn't do that. Redskins Pat's bet.
- [92:58]
C
I'm not.
- [92:58]
A
I don't need to say anything bad about Jaden Daniels. He's fine.
- [93:02]
B
Yeah.
- [93:03]
A
All right. So we're going to go through the slate really quickly. We're not. We're not going to. We're staying away from Dolphins, Washington. We're staying away from Falcons, Panthers. That's just a hornet's nest that it's like here poke that Hornets nest with a stick. Staying away 49ers cardinals. We might have in a tease a little bit later so may come back to that. House was intrigued by Packers Giants. To me the packers are just a stay away. I didn't like the lafleur stuff. Once that lafleur coach stuff starts, I just get nervous. They have a lot of I didn't like their injury report. Plus the Giants with the new coach. Do you believe in the new coach theory, Billy?
- [93:38]
B
I. I don't know about the new coach theory. I believe in the Jameis Winston will put up a game once a year.
- [93:44]
A
To stay away from Jameis theory. No, it's true.
- [93:47]
B
I tried to see if there was a trend on when he takes over teams for the first game if he always wins because it feels like you get like suckered into Jameis once a team but there's no sometimes he wins, sometimes he loses. He's always Jamis.
- [94:02]
A
Some guys just. There's no way to even attach a trend to them. They're just that volatile. I think Jamis is one of them. Anyway. We're staying away from that. I I vote staying away from Steelers, Bengals especially not knowing if Rogers is the formaldehyde is officially like killing his arm. And then Cowboys, Raiders and official stay away. There's two possibles House. Wait. You said you like Bill's Bucks. I don't agree with you but what was your Bill's Bucks case?
- [94:28]
D
I've Kind of moved off of it. I feel like this version of the Bucks doesn't match up with the priors. What we've seen earlier this season where they were able to come back. They really were competitive against good teams. I think this Bills team with, with where they are right now after, after waving the white flag against the Dolphins, they're ready to come in, do one of their home game things where they just get rolling and go downhill and they win by margin. But, you know, the, the counter to that is that the Bucks defense is a decent run stop unit. And so you're like, you know, the.
- [95:04]
A
Bills are the best run team.
- [95:06]
D
They need Cook to get going so that Allen can have the time because they still have, you know, poverty receiving core. But I'm fine with staying away.
- [95:15]
A
I thought the, the, the Pats basically made three long plays. Other than that, Tampa was really physical. I was, I was kind of impressed by them. I thought they gave the Pats a good game and the Pats just made a couple of great plays, got some stops, but I think Tampa's pretty good. Anyway, that line is Bills minus five and a half. I feel like it's a stay away because I don't trust the Bills at all on like third and eight. I don't feel like they have their receiver. What'd you, what did you see last week with them?
- [95:42]
B
Billy, you want some Baker passing stats for this one?
- [95:45]
A
Yeah.
- [95:46]
B
That you might like. Okay, so Baker's overpassing yardage is 213 and a half yards. He's only thrown for under 214 yards twice this season. Both times were against NFC south teams outside of the NFC South. 276 passing yards a game. So Baker's going to go off on this game.
- [96:04]
A
Yeah, I, I gotta say, House, I had the Bucks marked originally, but I wasn't sure about the Bucky Irving piece, whether they're going to be running. Run the ball at all. I'm scared of Buffalo coming off a bad. I think it's ultimately a stay away.
- [96:16]
D
That's fine.
- [96:17]
A
And then Lions, Eagles. We just disagreed on. Was the Eagles one of the ones you liked, House?
- [96:21]
D
I love the Eagles. I think the Eagles are. This is a version of the Eagles that hasn't existed up to this point. I think the way that they won that Green Bay game, to me, it's like a huge. Like, this is who they're going to be. We're back to trench warfare. They're going to try and dominate on both sides of the ball on the line. And the Lions have shown us they can't compete with teams that take them on in the trenches. That's how the Vikings kicked their ass on the offensive and defensive line. And the Vikings dominated them that way. And I think that the Lions are in for a repeat of that treatment at the hands of the Eagles.
- [97:04]
A
I looked at that one initially on the Lions side because they have three home games after this. And there's a case for them, like if they beat the Eagles coming off a late Monday night game, didn't look good. Siguri was taking shit after Lions come in, move the ball, do the whole thing. Their injury report is terrifying. And I report the Lions injury report is terrifying. There's so many guys on it. And Billy, one of the things I wish we could change, I think we're bad at certain things. We've just gotten stuck with certain things. One of them is the NFL injury report where it's basically like, questionable, probable, doubtful, didn't practice today. I need like more verbs and more adjectives. I need like 20, like, Penne Sewell didn't practice today. What does that mean? He's the best player on their offense. Well, it's gonna play or not.
- [97:54]
B
Did you like it better like the NBA when Pop would just put old as like, reasons why people were skipping?
- [98:02]
A
Yeah, like, I want more information on each guy beyond just like these basic verbs. And then we're trying to do this on Thursday and Wednesday. Thursday. But then sometimes they'll practice Friday or they won't practice. And you think this guy's in and then he's out. But to me, the injury report alone is a reason to make it any lion's thoughts.
- [98:19]
B
Do you want a scale on injury reports? If you're just doing words you have. So this is probable, but there has to be then subcategories of probable. So you know, if it's probable, it's really like 70%. Or would you rather have like a number skill, like 83% chance of playing this week?
- [98:37]
C
Week?
- [98:37]
A
No, I. I was thinking more like nuclear bombs, like the defcon. Because I watched that Netflix movie and they kept moving the DEFCON thing. And I was thinking how that, like, I feel like there should be some version of that, like a sliding scale, but I think it should be one to five. So Panay Sewell, if he's not, if he's leaning toward not playing, maybe that's more like injury report too. It's like, oh shit, he's a two. But when it's like he didn't play, who knows? Like, I I don't know what to make of that, so. Or maybe it's a one to ten. Is he like. So one would be. He's definitely not playing. So maybe it's like a two to three. I don't. I just wish we did better, especially with all the money at stake. A podcast like this. You don't agree, House?
- [99:19]
D
Well, I. I feel like we could do it. I mean, this is what AI exists for. Let's put AI to the.
- [99:24]
A
To the. To the.
- [99:25]
D
Let's deploy it for the forces of good.
- [99:27]
A
Tell Chat. GPT.
- [99:29]
D
Hey, go in here. Get the beat writers. Injury update. The beat writers are physically there at the football field spitting out information into their Twitter feeds, into their Instagrams. AI, go grab that shit. Put it into a number scale for me. Give me the breakdown that. That's what I'm paying for. ChatGPT.
- [99:49]
A
We're still. We're just stuck with ways we did things 20 years ago. And I just. Well, you and I are.
- [99:55]
D
That's for sure.
- [99:55]
A
No, no, no. I'm saying, like, some of these things we, like, we have just three judges for championship boxing matches, right? We still have only three. Why can't we have five? Why can't we have seven? Why are we just relying on these three people? You know what? This is another one. Like, we just. The injury report. This way they won't flip it. Just, let's do better.
- [100:15]
B
Who are we mad at exactly? Is it like the coaches, the players, the league, the reporters? Like, who is to blame for why we're in this situation?
- [100:22]
A
The teams. And it's the lack of information where it's just like, he didn't practice. Okay, cool. Is he practicing tomorrow? I don't know. And then we're. We're supposed to guess that a Thursday they're happy was a perfect example. Like, if he doesn't play, they have no chance against the Eagles.
- [100:37]
D
I don't think we got messed up with Joe Alt that way. May try to make a Chargers pick. Earlier this season when we thought he was going to play and then he didn't. And then we. We have the two giant butt of the season where Michael Penck's looking like he was going to play on a Saturday and not.
- [100:52]
B
And then the.
- [100:52]
D
And the same thing with Lamar. The. The Ravens. I think the Ravens got in trouble, didn't they? Didn't they have to pay a fine for, you know, he wasn't on the injury report and then he was out the next day.
- [101:03]
A
Like, oh, yeah, the Ravens did get in trouble. Anyway, we're staying away from Lions Eagles. Did you have any trends on Lions Eagles or either of those games? I forgot to ask.
- [101:11]
B
Lions, Eagles. No.
- [101:13]
A
Give us, give us. Before we go to the five, we like, give us two trends that you had.
- [101:18]
B
Okay. So I've been looking into alternate uniforms this season because there's alternate uniforms for everything. There's the throwback uniforms, there's these new Nike rivalries uniforms that are going on. Alternate uniforms have not been having a good season. So if you look at the weird throwback uniforms, the Steelers horrific uniforms, lose that game.
- [101:38]
A
Packers saying the one the 1920s prison uniforms or whatever those were. Yeah, yeah, right.
- [101:43]
B
What do you think of the Packers? I kind of like the helmet where it looks like the old school like leather helmet. People don't like those uniforms. People don't like change it seems.
- [101:52]
A
I don't like anything when they go further than like the 1970s.
- [101:56]
B
Oh.
- [101:58]
A
Because sometimes they'll bring the old Patriots uniforms and they're really nice. The red ones with the Pat Patriot helmet. But for the most when we start going in the 20s, 30s and 40s, I don't care at it.
- [102:07]
B
Yeah. Well, okay. So Nike introduced these rivalries uniforms but they only picked like five or six teams to do these rivalry uniforms. So it's been a bad season for the rivalries uniforms.
- [102:18]
A
Oh no.
- [102:19]
B
Yeah. The Cardinals were the first team to wear the rivalries uniforms in week four. They wore like a weird, like it looked like a blood splatter type thing that they had on. So they ended up losing that game to the Vikings. Then we go on to Week 5. The Bills had a rivalries uniform which was a pretty cool rivalries uniform. It was like this all white and then they had like a white and silver helmet that honestly would have looked great in a snow game like in December. But they decided to wear it way too early in the season against the Patriots. They lost that game to the Patriots. So 02 in the rivalry uniform. So far the only team that's won in rivalries uniform was the Dolphins. But they beat the Jets. So that one's kind of like a mulligan. That one doesn't really count as a win. This week we get two new Nike's rivalries uniforms. So the Patriots are going to be wearing them against the jets and we're.
- [103:08]
A
Taping before that game. But we assume the Patriots are going to win.
- [103:10]
B
Well, this trend would look favorably on that front. And the Rams are wearing this weird one that looks kind of just like their uniform, just navy, like a darker shade of blue against the Seahawks. Here's the trend on these uniforms. So there's lots of teams losing in these alternate uniforms. Now the Patriots have already won in Nike's rivalries game jersey. They were not wearing it, but they won the Nike rivalries jersey game. The jets lost a Nike's rivalries jersey game. They also weren't wearing it, but they lost. So if these trends hold, the Patriots are undefeated in Nike rivalries jerseys games and the jets are completely defeated in Nike rivalries games.
- [103:50]
A
So which mars real life?
- [103:52]
B
Yeah. Bet the house on the Bills. Can you tell people or on the Patriots? Can you tell people to bet the house? Probably not.
- [103:57]
A
Well, the game already happened by the time they heard. But the Rams, the blue Rams ones, that would be the other one. You're saying that's going to be this week?
- [104:06]
B
Yeah, I'm not feeling as strong.
- [104:10]
A
No, I'm going to look at those. All right. So the blue would be. Oh, yeah. So it looks like basically that it's harkening back to the late 70s kind of look.
- [104:20]
B
So it's in your window of acceptable kind of throwbacks.
- [104:23]
A
I just, I think for Rams, Seahawks, wear your own normal fucking uniforms for one of the biggest games of the entire season. What do we need gimmicks for?
- [104:32]
B
Well, it's also, I think a Cooper cup revenge game. Right.
- [104:36]
A
Everybody says qualify.
- [104:39]
B
It's what I've been hearing.
- [104:40]
C
It's the talk of the town.
- [104:42]
A
Can you play for an hour straight without. Without getting hurt? Give us one more trend before we go to our big picks. What else did you have?
- [104:49]
B
So power couples have been a thing in the NFL the past couple seasons. Obviously the biggest one was Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce. But. But there have been other minor power couples that have gone on. You had Haley Steinfeld and Josh Allen who now got married, and that was power couple. Josh Allen goes on and he wins the mvp. You had a smaller power couple amongst influencers, Braxton Barrios and Alex Earl. But they were a power couple at the wrong time because that's.
- [105:17]
A
My daughter was focused on that one.
- [105:18]
B
Was she?
- [105:19]
A
Yeah.
- [105:20]
B
Okay. Yeah.
- [105:20]
A
She thought br. She thought. Her perception was that Braxton Barrios was a bigger star than he actually is.
- [105:27]
B
It worked out for Braxton Barrios on that front. However, I think he got like seven receptions that year, so it didn't really translate onto the field for him. And again, like, had they come a year earlier, a year later, they probably would have been much bigger couple. But the whole Taylor Swift situation really ruined it for them. But this Year we have a new power couple. Madison Beer and Justin Herbert are couple. So this week Justin Herbert over one and a half touchdowns is the line he's playing against the Jaguars. Since Madison Beer released her new single on October 10th, Justin Herbert has had over one and a half touchdowns, four out of five games. The Chargers are also four one in those games. Wow. And the one game that they lost, Justin Herbert passed for 425 yards. But they lost to the Colts. So do with that.
- [106:18]
A
Damn. And I like the Jaguars this week. So I went to a Laker game second week of the season and it was the day after they put it on Thursday and the two of them were sitting courtside and they showed him on the video screen and it was like half hearted applause. Just felt like the fan should have been more excited. He's like the fourth best quarterback in the league or the sixth best quarterback but seemed pretty happy. Stayed the whole game. I'm not. She's one of those influencers with multiple jobs. So she's like singer, social media. I think she's kind of been an actress. I can't really. I couldn't really follow it.
- [106:53]
B
Does your daughter care about Madison Beer at all?
- [106:56]
A
I told her and she did not care.
- [106:57]
B
Okay.
- [106:58]
A
That one got a no care.
- [107:00]
D
Can I ask a question?
- [107:01]
B
Yeah.
- [107:02]
D
Feels disrespectful to a power couple that's staring us right in the face. I mean we might see them tonight. Stefon Diggs and Cardi B. That's not a power couple. That's not an NFL.
- [107:13]
A
It's tough because he had the. Had kids with two different women. He's in a couple of years carrying a baby. I know, but they. But then someone else is too.
- [107:22]
B
Yeah.
- [107:23]
A
Yeah. I think that diffuses it a little bit.
- [107:26]
D
She shows up at the games.
- [107:28]
A
She did. She was in the.
- [107:29]
D
We think that she's, you know, she.
- [107:31]
A
Was in the Craftsman demanding that Drake throw.
- [107:33]
D
Throw the ball to Stefan. We think that she celebrates Stefan Diggs successes.
- [107:41]
A
Stefan Diggs has been a great patriot. He's been a leader in the locker room and I support anything he wants to do in his romantic life. All right, first game that we're looking at here, Billy. Vikings, Bears. I think House and I both like this one. Vikings are favored by three at home. Vikings basically have their full D back and I was, I was trapped on JetBlue watching four games on the multi view and I watched the entire Ravens Vikings game as one of the four and I thought the Vikings were in that game the whole game. And I Was surprised how the Ravens, how. You know, it seemed like one of those games they were going to put away in the first half and they just kept settling for field goals. The Vikings were hanging around. At one point in the second half, it felt like they might actually make a run. And McCarthy wasn't quite ready for it yet. But to me. So I think the Vikings are okay. I don't get the Bears at all. I keep track of, like, wins, losses in these either war games where you could.
- [108:37]
B
Either.
- [108:37]
A
It could have gone either way. So right now The Bears are 2 and 2 and they have five either war games. Their two wins were against Dallas when CD Lamb got hurt. And then they beat Spencer Radler in bad weather at home. And then they're 4 and 1 in the either war games and the wins were Vegas, Cincy, Washington and New Orleans. The defensive stats are bad somehow. They're first and turnovers. They're just kind of one of those teams that I'm waiting for it to end and I don't. I watch these Ben Johnson locker room speeches after the game and Sal and I talk about him every Sunday night. They're hilarious. He's like, this is who we are. Nobody let us hang around the last four minutes. And it's like, your team's terrible. What are you talking about? Do you have any Bears thoughts, Billy?
- [109:18]
B
I can't figure out if Caleb Williams is good or not. Because he's like, none of us can. He's another one of these quarterbacks where it's like, okay, this was an okay first round pick. Like, no, this was a disaster. This is going to go the way of Justin Fields.
- [109:31]
A
Fields.
- [109:31]
B
And then they got him all those weapons last year. Then they fire the coach. They bring in Ben Johnson. They're six and three, but like. And three, you know, like there's. Is there a team that you guys are convinced is a dominant team this year? Like a good team? Because even the ones with the good records, I have no idea if they're good or not.
- [109:51]
A
What's your answer, House? As I try to fix the shade in my office?
- [109:55]
D
I think. I think both the Rams and the Seahawks are good. I think both of them are good. And I think they're both good on both sides of the ball. We'll do the handicapping of that football game here soon enough. But I want to interject. We don't.
- [110:11]
A
Can I just say I agree with those two.
- [110:13]
D
Okay, good. Anybody else?
- [110:14]
A
And I think.
- [110:16]
D
I mean the Chiefs. I'll say the Chiefs. I'll go ahead and Go way out on the list.
- [110:19]
A
The Chiefs are this week.
- [110:21]
D
Yeah.
- [110:22]
A
And I think the Patriots actually might be good, but I just think they need a couple more wins under the old belt.
- [110:29]
D
Seems like a good.
- [110:30]
A
Those would be my four.
- [110:31]
D
But we agree.
- [110:31]
A
Rams, Seahawks. I think the Eagles have to get credit just for putting up wins. I mean, there's, you know, some point if you're winning every week, you can't nitpick too much.
- [110:40]
D
And they're not playing a bullshit schedule.
- [110:42]
A
They've had hard games. They're beating people's eye on their neck, beating the best teams anyway. What were you going to say?
- [110:47]
D
I just wanted to interject on the Caleb Williams question. We have no idea whether he's good or not because this is the first nine games, eight or nine games with a genuinely competent person calling plays. It's like we're, we're. This is the first time in however many years that he's actually trying to play like an organized offense. And it's why I think we keep seeing these game scripts where the first couple of offensive possessions by the Bears, hey, look at that team. They look pretty effing good. They're moving the ball down the field.
- [111:18]
A
And at the three hour mark.
- [111:19]
D
Right, right. And he's, he bails so quickly. He goes through no progressions, but it's a work in progress. I do think over the balance of a full season, we'll see Ben Johnson and they'll get on the same page. Right now, you know, it's inconclusive, leaning not good. But I don't think we can make a call yet.
- [111:38]
A
You know, you know what's interesting about him, this should be an award when they do NFL honors. If you did like, you know, you have like these mixtapes of basketball players in high school and they look, they all look incredible. It's like they're just hitting threes and, and alley oop dunks. You know, that's not what the experience. To actually watch them. The Caleb mixtape this year would be pretty incredible. Like some of the scrambles he's had, especially in big moments. Like the pass to Loveland. Yeah, like, like he's had. But then if you watch him for three hours, there's also like all of these other terrible plays he makes and he's like the classic scrambles to the right and runs out of room and has to throw it out of bounds. He does all that stuff and then every once in a while have an awesome throw. But I ironically feel the same about Tua. Not lately because Tua's kind of fallen into an abyss. But Tua was like that for a while, where it seemed like the wheels were coming off, and then all of a sudden, he would hit four dudes in a row, and it'd be like, wait, is. Is he good? What's. You just kind of never could get a handle on it, right?
- [112:39]
B
Well, even when he goes, what, like, 24 of 27, he has. Like, those three are so bad. And you just look past all of the positive stats, and I'm like, oh, my God, like, what are we doing with this guy? And, like, well, those numbers aren't actually that bad. His QBR wasn't bad that game. Like, he's not that bad, right? Who do you guys think, I guess, is the best player or the player that you could make the best highlight reel of in the league? That's actually not very good. So you could show someone, like, look, this is the NFL. And they see that person, like, wow, this guy's incredible. Like, they're really not. They just have such, like, big band plays, and the rest of the time they're just shit players.
- [113:16]
A
It's probably a running back, right? It's probably like, some running back who every once in a while can make people miss. For the Patriots, it's Austin Hooper, the number two tight end you could cut. Like, he had eight awesome catches this year, and if you cut them together, it's like, is this guy Gronk? What's. Look at these catches in traffic. Who do you think at his house?
- [113:35]
D
Joe Flacco, who I love. I say that with. With all of the love in my heart, I say. I mean, it's just an amazing moment in his career.
- [113:44]
A
It's just you.
- [113:45]
D
You, like, seriously. Every one of his throws in Cincinnati have been the best throws. The most amazing throws. The scramble that he had on that Monday Night Football. Anyway, I'll stop.
- [113:55]
A
Brian Thomas Jr. Is like that, too, because he's had a bad year, by all accounts, and I have him on multiple fantasy teams, and he's had drops over the middle and all kinds of stuff, but he's also had, like, seven awesome plays. Last year he had a lot more. Vikings minus three. I think we're locking that one in house.
- [114:12]
D
Lock, lock, lock. Yeah.
- [114:14]
A
The only fear is J.J. mcCarthy. I listen. He's up and down. Great throw one play, horrible throw the next play. He. He'll have an awesome scramble where you're like, wow, this guy. There's something here. And then, you know, he'll be running for his life next week.
- [114:29]
D
You said it all of the Bears wins are because of turnover differential and we're betting on a guy who's a turnover waiting to happen. That's what we do.
- [114:37]
A
So, yes, kitchen sink game for the Vikes because they have at Green Bay, at Seattle, next two weeks, the 4 and 5. Like this is. This is it. This is. You lose this game, the Bears go to seven and three. You're not going to make the playoffs if you lose this game. Bears could lose the game and be okay. Billy might have to talk us out of this next one. We both like the Browns at home. They're getting seven and a half at home against Baltimore. They played three home games in Cleveland this year and I think we, we bet on the last one. The Dolphins won. That was like our pick of the year. They won 31 6. They beat the Packers 13 to 10. And then in week one, they should have beaten the Bengals and lost by one. Then they had an overseas game and I didn't really like how Baltimore looked last week, but bad weather, Cleveland at home, just ugly. Just. It has all the makings, Billy. But you're making a face.
- [115:36]
B
I. It's just the Browns are such a hard team to want to take. I mean, you don't think they're going to win. You just think they're going to cover this game, Right?
- [115:44]
A
Yeah. It feels like a. What, like a 13 of 9?
- [115:49]
D
It feels like the AFC north game between these two teams that we've been watching for the last, like, I don't know, 15, 20 years. I mean, there are some incredible splits for the Browns defense, especially home versus on the road. I think over the last three years.
- [116:05]
A
I can't remember.
- [116:06]
D
This is maybe like Stucky from the Action Network. The Browns against the spread are over 60% at home and they're like 5 and 20 on the road like this. Just their yards per, you know, offensive possession are the best in the NFL. Defensively, they're. They're allowing an average of 11 points a game at home, but only three games.
- [116:32]
A
We've been talking about this for a couple years. Yeah, that. There's just like two versions of the Browns and if you can get them at home in bad weather, it's. It's almost like. Just don't think of them as the Browns. Think of them as their. Another identity entirely. I didn't like how Lamar looked last week.
- [116:48]
D
He's only watched for pretty close in two games since he came back.
- [116:52]
A
He doesn't have the same explosiveness and Obviously he's not 100%. He had a hamstring injury that was at a calf or hamstring. It was one of those leg injuries, but I just didn't think he looked great. The counter here is we're taking Dylan Gabriel and there's just some awful, awful Dylan Gabriel stats really bad. But I'm not sure if it's a bad weather home game. Like, is he even involved in this game?
- [117:16]
D
Nope.
- [117:16]
A
Just going to run the ball.
- [117:17]
D
Quinn. Sean Quinshawn. Quinshawn.
- [117:19]
A
Yeah.
- [117:20]
B
I don't like that situation for Lamar. I have him in a Guillotine league. I got him for $2 last week, and I was like, this is going to be. This is how I win the league. Because half the teams ran out of money. And then there was only one other person with money. Like, literally $0 is how I got him for two because I realized there's only one other person that can bet or can bid on him. And he has Josh Allen, so he's not going to do it. So then I can save money. And now we're just in, like, survival week to week mode. And there's one. One other person with money in this league and if I knock him out this week, we're good. So I was going to play Lamar, but now I'm thinking against playing Lamar.
- [117:56]
A
This week, I would not play Lamar this week. What's your other option?
- [117:59]
D
I concur.
- [118:01]
B
All right, hold on.
- [118:01]
A
Yeah, that's a. Stay away. I'm in the same situation. The Guillotine league, House and iron. That house got knocked out of. There's seven teams left, and only three have money. Everyone else has zeros. And then it just becomes hunger games for these superstars. The last couple weeks with the three people who have the money.
- [118:17]
B
Well, so I'm down to three teams because we only had, I think, 12 teams in it this. This season. So it's three of us that are left. Only one other person has money. They have like $80. I have like 500, which is kind of useless. And then the other guy that's in first has $0. So if I just survive this week, I can just outspend everyone else.
- [118:37]
A
You put together an all star team. Sounds amazing.
- [118:40]
B
And it's also like, like, Matthew Barry is in this league for some reason. So, like, there's the added. I just want to beat the guy who has come up with this and has made a career out of fantasy. Like, even if I lose the rest of this, like, I don't know how many leagues you guys are in with just like normal people. That they think, oh, because you're in sports, you know so much about this. And they get, like, this pride and beating and it's like, I don't know. Like, I know the same as you guys do about everything else. Like, fantasy wise guys. I'm just hoping my guys don't get injured and, like, it's. It's a crapshoot. But the pride that I would take out of knocking out someone who's made their entire lifestyle out of fantasy would just.
- [119:19]
A
You should start doing taunting videos. I mean, I don't want to pour water on this, but I think he's in, like, 27 leagues.
- [119:26]
B
Yeah, no, I know.
- [119:27]
A
I'm not dealing with, like, minions doing his teams.
- [119:29]
B
Honestly, the reason that I'm, like, trying to sneak by is because I'm like, this is so low on his list of priorities in terms of, like, fantasy.
- [119:36]
A
He might not even know he's in the league.
- [119:37]
B
Yeah, I probably. Well, he. He. He went a little crazy with the money this week. He was throwing out, like, $200 at people. Yeah.
- [119:44]
D
Play somebody other than Lamar. Who's your other choices?
- [119:46]
B
I have Herbert, so I think I'm going to go with Herbert this week. Actually, you know what, Herbert? Well, especially after the Madison Beer stat, I don't know why I was even giving a second thought.
- [119:55]
A
I had to stop. I. I don't play fantasy basketball anymore because anytime I was in a fantasy basketball league, in an auction, anytime I started bidding on somebody, people would just go $1 higher than me just because they figured, well, he loves basketball. If he likes this person, I'll just go $1 higher. And it just wasn't fun. House was one of those people.
- [120:16]
D
Left hand up. Guilty.
- [120:17]
A
F you, House. Speaking of the Jags, Chargers, I had this one marked down Jags plus three. So Herbert could still have a good game. It could still hate your trend. It's going to be 78 degrees in Jacksonville and I'm guessing a little bit humid, too, right? See the Chargers? Who? These LA kids, they get to play in a dome. They don't really get to see this, but I thought the weather actually mattered last week in that Buffalo game. And we see it in Miami, what, twice? Three times a year, these teams go to Miami and the weather's weird. And I feel like it happens in Jacksonville and it'll happen in Tampa, but. But there's some really interesting. I mean, the Chargers offensive line is just terrible, and they lost their two anchors. It didn't really manifest itself last week because Rogers was so bad, and it Almost didn't have to, but I could. I just feel like the Jags, they're like a zigzag team and this is the week to. To follow The Zag Jags Plus 3 feels like a three point game house. If Jacksonville won last week, which they should have won and thank God they didn't because we had the Texans. If they won. Is this spread even?
- [121:29]
D
It's. What do you mean even? Like near pick them against the Chargers or is it. No, no, no. Yeah. Tic tac zone probably. I don't think it would have gone all the way down because the way that the Chargers won, that's, that's really what I think this price is. Is about. They dominated the Steelers on national tv, so they're, they're getting a. Giving out a price.
- [121:50]
A
Did they dominate them or was Rogers just horrible?
- [121:53]
D
But think about us. We're, we're. Rogers was horrendous and I thought the Steelers defense was tremendous. But we're talking about a market. The Vegas setting a number. That's a different thing. That's people's eyeballs. What was the score of that game? Oh, well, look, the, the Chargers beat the rest.
- [122:08]
A
Yeah, right, right, right.
- [122:09]
B
Oh, I'm thinking back to the playoff game where Justin Herbert looked like he was going to beat the Jaguars and they had that lead and I'm won. The ghost of two years ago are going to come back and get in the head.
- [122:21]
A
That helps our cause.
- [122:22]
B
Yeah, get in the head of Justin Herbert and think, you know what, I can do it here. And then if things start slipping towards the end of the game, like, oh no, it's happening to me again. And the Jaguars come back and take them down.
- [122:34]
A
I like that. Yeah, I do believe in that. The residue of these old skeleton games from the past in either way.
- [122:41]
B
Right. But how far back in the past? Because two years ago, it's kind of borderline back in the past for ghosts.
- [122:46]
D
Right. A lot of different faces, different head coach. Maybe that could make a difference for the Chargers.
- [122:52]
A
Also, the Jaguars play weird games. Like you could get Jaguars plus three. They could lose 31 to 30. Or I just think this game has weird game written all over it and especially the humidity and stuff. I don't think the Jaguars are that bad. You look at their schedule, you look at some of the. They played some really good teams. I don't trust them at all. I wouldn't, I wouldn't ever want to lay points with them. I don't think in any situation. But in this situation, I don't mind it. So we're staying away? Oh, no, we're not staying away. You. You want to put the Eagles minus one and a half against Detroit. You want that to be your pick? Potentially, House.
- [123:29]
D
Yeah, potentially. Yeah. I mean, but I, you know, we're definitely doing the Jags plus three. We're definitely doing the Browns plus seven and a half. We're definitely doing Minnesota minus two and a half.
- [123:42]
A
There's one more I really like. Yeah.
- [123:44]
D
And I think I agree with you. So, I mean, I do like the Eagles this week, but go ahead. I think we're in agreement on the other one that you like.
- [123:52]
A
I really like the Seahawks plus three against the Rams. I'm all in on the Seahawks team. Aaron Schatz, I don't know. See, the creator of dvoa, the king of dvoa. What's his moniker?
- [124:05]
D
Whatever you give him, you're the Podfather.
- [124:08]
A
You name it, you dub it Igniter. I don't know what it is.
- [124:12]
B
He said he has an army, though, now, that does his bidding for him. Right. Like, if you look at his book, it's like this. This team was written by this guy and this one was written by that guy. Like, he has the formula, but it seems like he might be getting a little too big for his britches on this.
- [124:27]
A
Billy Gill. Well, he was calling this the DVA Bowl.
- [124:32]
D
Oh.
- [124:33]
A
Oh, I like this one against two.
- [124:35]
D
Very good.
- [124:35]
A
Seattle's one, the Rams are two.
- [124:37]
D
Well, he's allowed to do that since he invented it.
- [124:40]
A
The case for each side. Both teams are really good. You can throw on the Rams. I just think you can. I've watched Mac Jones do it twice. I watched it last week. I felt like if they don't have that Juwan Johnson fumble or Jennings, then there was that McCaffrey gets stoned on the fourth down. But they were like right there just going back and forth with the Rams and that Niners offense. I wouldn't call Juggernaut. And I just think they can move the ball on them. I think either this is a close game or the Seahawks win. So I like that. I don't think the home field is going to matter that much because it's whatever. It's la. The flip side, Billy Darnold in a huge game, which we have not seen since the last two times we saw it, which was the last two games of last season. When he shit the bed. Yeah, I mean, it's hard to just be like, he's fine.
- [125:37]
B
He seems due to not shit the bed, though. Right. Like in law, you can't always shit the bed. At some point, you run out of shit.
- [125:45]
D
He's not. Not fine. I think he's fine.
- [125:49]
A
He's having a great year. Yeah.
- [125:51]
C
This.
- [125:51]
D
This is, to your point, an observation around San Francisco. I had that note. Note as well. It sets up in two ways to my mind for Darnold to have success in the first place. Seattle doesn't try to run the ball. The Rams have a good run defense, but their secondary is super gettable and you can go through beyond the San Francisco games and get there. The reason that I especially like this Darnold matchup, his deep ball is exquisite, and it was exquisite last year as well. And he gets rid of it fast.
- [126:25]
A
They're not.
- [126:25]
B
Not.
- [126:25]
D
They're not having him stand back there. We just watched two consecutive games now. It was Washington and Arizona, but they went. They were. Had 28 points before anybody sat down with their popcorn.
- [126:37]
A
Because people like Arizona's defense and they just.
- [126:39]
D
One of them. Well, they. Their secondary was banged up and they were on a short week, so we can try and excuse some of that for Arizona, but full week of Shaheed.
- [126:48]
A
By the way, Shaheed might be your answer. Billy for highlights for the highlight guy.
- [126:53]
B
Okay.
- [126:54]
A
You just take like eight Shaheed plays, and it would. You'd be like, is this what Gail Sayers was like in the 60s crossed with Jerry Rice?
- [127:02]
B
I think if I got like a Justin Fields highlight reel and I put it in a time capsule and had someone open it in, like 40 years, they'd look at him like, wow, this was like, this guy was really good at the time. And just don't show them anything else other than his scrambles. But it would be also 40 years from now. Like, I think back, don't show any passes. Yeah, football. If I see, like, highlights from football 40 years ago, I'm like, wow, that is a terrible game. So I can't even imagine what football will look like 40 years from now where you're like, yeah, these people are completely unathletic. They're very slow. They can't make throws. Like, what were these people watching back in the day?
- [127:36]
A
I've actually done this. I've watched, like, quarters from YouTube, has entire games and you watching quarters from, like 1979. And it's just kind of amazing to watch. First of all, the guys are much smaller than they are now. That's like one of the first things that jumps out. And then the second thing that jumps out is everybody's just getting clobbered and highlighted the quarterback's going back to pass and just guys are diving in his legs and people are hitting from behind, and the quarterback's, like, just trying to get rid of the ball before he gets killed. Basically, is all of these games and they're, like, bizarre to watch.
- [128:13]
B
Do you feel worse for the bad players today that would have dominated an old era or the really good players of an old era that were paid, like, $10,000 a year for those guys? Yeah.
- [128:26]
A
Yeah. Like, especially the. The guy. The 70s and early 80s NBA guys, they just have to be going nuts. Like the Bradley Beal contract. Can you imagine being. I don't know, pick anyone from 1977, like Dr. J, who carried the ABA. There's no way he ever made more than, like, maybe, like, 2 million a year, you know, and he's watching like, Kevin Durant's made almost $700 million or $600 million, something like that.
- [128:56]
D
Whatever it is, deserves it. Look at how much the league has made. It's fine.
- [129:02]
A
House is always pro labor in front of players. He's pro labor in the baseball dispute. He's already. He's laid his smack. He's laid his flag down. Incorrect player side. What are we doing?
- [129:13]
B
Are you hoping for a holdout? Wait, did you like that? Did you like that one of Manfred's goons put out a hit on Bryce Harper?
- [129:21]
A
I did. It's all starting. It really is. Like, these next couple months, it'd be a good podcast, because we've been trying to figure out how we could have a baseball podcast. And maybe the podcast should just be, like, monitoring all the shenanigans that are about to happen. Hit pieces all over the place. It's going to be great. Seahawks were taken, Jags were taking. That leaves one spot. But we both like the Chiefs. We just don't like the hook. The Chiefs are three and a half in Denver, and I've just had it with Bo Nix. I just can't. He's not beating the Chiefs the way he's playing. There were multiple plays in that Thursday game when you could tell Herb street wanted to go really in on, like, what the fuck is this guy doing? Like, but he was, like, holding back. I just think he's a complete mess. I have a couple Broncos fans in my life, and all of them are kind of like, if we can just get a good hour of him, like, they're already in that mindset, and the Chiefs need the game. That's the other thing. It's not like the Chiefs are nine and up right they're five and four. They're not even in one of the seven playoff teams. So I'm afraid of the hook.
- [130:30]
D
I want to be on record. I'm not afraid of the hook. This is the Chiefs coming off of the bye week, going up against this, this completely incompetent offense they will have. Spags knows how to scheme up against Bo Nix. I'm not worried about. About Spags having the time. The single biggest thing that Denver enjoys is an unprecedented fourth quarter point differential. They're. They're beating all of these garbage teams in the fourth quarter. Right. The Eagles is the. Is the lone exception. They did, you know, a good, A good job there, but, I mean, you were. I'm not rewarding them for the outcome against the Texans. They knocked the quarterback out. The guy still hasn't come back yet. No, I, I'm, I'm. I'm very suspicious of this Denver team and I think, think the Chiefs are ready to come in and handle their business.
- [131:22]
B
How do you guys feel about Sean Payton? Because, like, Sean Payton was the genius, obviously with Drew Brees, right? And then he was supposed to be the quarterback fixer and then it didn't happen with Russell Wilson. And then Bo Nicks was his guy and he was okay last year, but, like, he's not. I don't. Do you guys think Bo Nicks is going to be a superstar quarterback? Like, probably not, but they have a great record. So is he a good coach or is he not a good coach?
- [131:46]
A
I was just talking to one of my Bronco fan friends, Dave, who's kind of like, I don't really fully understand this. Peyton is a genius thing. I think the Bronco fans are starting to. He's had some weird calls, especially when was the super bowl, the Colts. Like, he's been dining off that onside kick call, which was in 2009. Like Entourage was on in 2009. Like, it was a million years ago. How many? I was year two of this podcast. But I think that some of the game management stuff with him is pretty strange. And I don't understand what, like some of the stuff they asked Bo Nix to do. It just seems like he can only do a couple things. Like he can roll out to the right and do a quick pass. They keep asking him to throw these deep passes and he just can't complete any of them. You know, I actually like their players. I like Franklin, I like Sutton. I like the running backs. They can block good tight ends. So I, I'm with you. I don't so you're, you're down on Peyton. It sounds like Billy.
- [132:46]
B
I just. Yeah, I don't think he's like the genius savior that he was painted out to be. But at 8 and 2, it's hard to explain to people why he's not doing a good job.
- [132:55]
A
Right.
- [132:56]
D
I, I mean, considering where they were, this franchise was with Russell Wilson as their quarterback. And then he, He. He quickly showed Russell Wilson the door. The Broncos made the playoffs, and now here they are once again, you know, at the top of the. Of the AFC West. It's tough to challenge, like, the big picture stuff.
- [133:14]
A
Even though we're talking about, like, the minutia piece, the roster building, he's still really good at. I thought he did a great job with the. The draft picks, free agent signings. The team has an identity. He's really good at kind of. Kind of puffing his chest up on behalf of the team, talking about we're a Super bowl contender. He does a lot of like it. Almost like he wants to give them the confidence. But then you watch some of the game management stuff, and that's why I think they could be in trouble with the Chiefs. But. So, House, you want to just. You just want to, like, lay the hook here.
- [133:45]
D
I have no problem with it, but I understand your reservation, and it really does, you know, fly in the face of what we've watched all season long with these Broncos, which is pulling something out of their butt right at the end that, you know, they are the.
- [133:57]
A
Colon blow team of 20, 25. Because we could do Chiefs Moneyline with the Green Bay Moneyline, but then we have. We're banking on that weird packers team. We could do Chiefs Moneyline with Houston +2/2 in Tennessee.
- [134:12]
D
I don't want anything to do with that game.
- [134:13]
A
You want to stay. You don't like Davis Mills, Even though he saved our ass last week.
- [134:17]
D
That. That was it there.
- [134:18]
B
That's.
- [134:19]
D
That's the end of the road. You can't ask for, For. For anything more from Davis Mills. He saved our ass last week. That's it. Don't ask for anything more.
- [134:25]
A
So you're saying, Cat, we're at the blackjack table at Davis Mills, and we have to get up and get. And put in the chips.
- [134:31]
D
Yes, the co Has. Has come to the table. It's time to get up.
- [134:34]
A
Bill, you didn't have any Davis Mills trends, did you?
- [134:36]
B
No, I didn't. I didn't.
- [134:38]
A
I forgot to have you prep on that.
- [134:39]
B
I'll look into that.
- [134:41]
A
Chiefs moneyline, Arizona plus nine and a half. That was another one. The Arizona against the Niners.
- [134:47]
D
Fine with that. Fine with that one. Go ahead.
- [134:50]
A
Oh, you like that one?
- [134:51]
D
Oh, yeah, fine. I don't think that the Niners are going to win by margin. The card, this is a division.
- [134:56]
A
Here's the one. So we can move The Chiefs line one point point, get away from the hook. Chiefs minus two and a half and put it with Arizona getting 13 and a half against the Niners. And the Niners just like they're starting defense. It's like, hey, that's Keon Wade. He used to be in the Patriots. Like, it's one of those defenses. Every guy they have is somebody that's probably been on your team in the last two years. So you like that one? We would rather do that or just lay the hook House.
- [135:23]
D
I'm fine with both. And obviously that's not an answer.
- [135:27]
B
Well, well, as a therapist, you're going to have to pick a side here.
- [135:33]
A
Well, maybe we asked Billy. Would you rather lay the hook with the Chiefs? Just say, fuck it. Chiefs would have to win by four points in Denver.
- [135:40]
B
I feel like I'm not supposed to give my thoughts here because this is you guys working this situation.
- [135:44]
A
We want your thoughts. We want your thoughts because we can also just stay away from this game. We have six choices.
- [135:52]
B
How strong are we feeling about it?
- [135:53]
D
It do the Chiefs plus, I mean, minus two and a half in Arizona plus 13 and a half. 49ers cannot. The only way 49ers win by margin is, is if the Cardinals give them the ball. If there's like special team catastrophes, Brissette, you know, fumbles that might happen.
- [136:14]
A
Why is Tennessee going to beat Houston?
- [136:17]
D
I, I just don't want anything to do with, with, with the Texans. We, we, we got, got the thing with the Texans. That's it. We need to be happy with it.
- [136:25]
A
Let them get new coaches, new coach, Giants, anything.
- [136:29]
B
I, I, I, I like the Giants because of Jamis. I think Jameis has a James, James game. Yeah, one game.
- [136:36]
D
I want to lay the points with, with Green Bay, but Green Bay isn't going to lose three straight games.
- [136:41]
A
We, we already talked about this. We got to stay away from James. I don't trust Jamis. All right, Stay in a away. It's like when the wrong dealers comes into the table and you're like, I don't trust that guy. All right, so we can either do Chiefs minus three and a half or Chiefs minus two and a half. With Arizona plus 13 and a half. That fits under our minus one. But that's. Those are two choices. Those are the choices you pick. I want.
- [137:06]
D
I'll do the combo. I prefer the combo. Arizona plus 13 and a half. Chiefs minus two and a half. It's the sissy way out, I admit it.
- [137:14]
A
So Vikings, Browns, Seahawks, Jags and then Chiefs, Cardinals. We're stay. I think we stay away from Eagles, Lions.
- [137:23]
D
You can.
- [137:23]
C
I'm fine.
- [137:24]
D
I've already bet the Eagles. I'm going to keep betting them.
- [137:26]
A
Okay. So what do you want to bet?
- [137:29]
D
The Chiefs. I bet the Chiefs at minus three and a half. I'm fine with it, but we're trying to win here.
- [137:34]
A
Okay. All right. The Ringer 107 is presented by FanDuel Sportsbook. First one we are doing. I had the wrong line before. I thought it was Vikings -3 in Minnesota against the Bears. And then House reminded me before we started this part that it's actually minus two and a half. So that's even better. We get an extra half point. Vikings minus two and a half at home against the Bears. Do I trust J.J. mcCarthy? Not totally. Do I trust Caleb Williams to burn us? Not really. Kitchen sink game for the Vikings. They have to have it. They're playing Green Bay and Seattle on the road next week anyway. Vikings -2 and a half to write the shots and keep their season alive. That's our first pick. Browns plus seven and a half at home against Baltimore. A pick that made Billy briefly recoil and then by the time we went through it, he had decided to not have Lamar Jackson in his Guillotine lineup this week.
- [138:27]
B
I'm easily swayed.
- [138:29]
A
Bad weather at Cleveland. House, you. You made the point. Cleveland at home is just like you almost. They shouldn't be called the Browns. Call them something else. Call them the Cleveland ass kickers. Browns plus seven and a half. And we're going to try to not pretend that Dylan Gabriel's the quarterback. Seahawks plus three against the Rams. I think the Seahawks are slightly better. This to me is a playoff game with playoff rules. I am not sure because now the home field advantage you get plus you get one and a half, right? If you're home. So they have. Rams are getting three. They're saying the Rams are better than the Seahawks. I just disagree. I think you can throw in the Rams.
- [139:02]
D
We didn't even talk about how good the Seahawks have been on the road for the entirety of Mike McDonald's tenure as a head coach.
- [139:08]
A
They are excellent on the road, by the way. They have two losses and should have won both of the Games. So there you go. Jags plus three in Chargers against the Chargers in 78 degree weather in Jacksonville. Some trends Billy brought up about Herbert. Power couples that I don't think. I think he can put up stats and we can still get our result. I love the Plus 3 because I think the final score of this game will probably be one or two points.
- [139:32]
B
Points.
- [139:33]
A
And either way, that's good for our bet. But I think the Jags can win this. I don't think the Chargers can block. At some point, it's going to come back and bite them. And then, last but not least, we're going to take the Chiefs. They're favored by three and a half. We're going to move it to two and a half. We're going to move it one point. And to do that we need the juice from Arizona plus 13 and a half at their home. Right against San Francisco.
- [139:57]
B
They're home.
- [139:57]
D
Yes, they're home.
- [139:58]
A
Yeah, that sounds great.
- [139:59]
D
Yeah. Let's do Gannon time.
- [140:02]
A
And that is under our -120 threshold. So those are our five picks. Billy, any last thoughts?
- [140:08]
B
I think. I think Seahawks picks a good one. But not. Not because we were saying the Rams. Remember, alternate jerseys. Rams alternate jerseys. A guaranteed loss this week.
- [140:18]
A
Very fair. That was the Ringer 107, presented by FanDuel Sportsbook. Billy, what'd you think?
- [140:23]
B
I think we made a lot of progress this week. I think that you guys are in a better place than you were when we started.
- [140:28]
A
Did that was. I feel the same way.
- [140:32]
D
Excellent pick. Lubricant.
- [140:33]
A
I feel. Feel closer to house. You can. You can hear Billy. Billy's going to pop on different Ringer podcasts. Probably like this for a little while. You're in the college. College football tailgate show.
- [140:46]
B
Ringer tailgate. Yeah. Check it out.
- [140:47]
A
Can you rank the hosts before we go?
- [140:49]
B
Ooh, wow. Okay, your favorites fa. Oh, now I have to play favorites three to one.
- [140:55]
C
One.
- [140:56]
A
Sure. Oh, you want to do that? Yeah, let's do it that way. Three to one.
- [140:59]
B
Are we doing. We're doing just ringer tailgates three to one here.
- [141:02]
A
Yeah.
- [141:03]
B
All right.
- [141:03]
A
Just for your. Not for the entirety of the podcast, but for your experience on the podcast yesterday.
- [141:08]
B
My experience on the podcast, Joel, is an easy 3. Bottom of the barrel, I would say. Yeah. Joel's at the bottom and this is like a big one. Tate and Van.
- [141:19]
A
Yeah. Dan really sold you a couple big belly laughs.
- [141:24]
B
You know what? I'm. I told you, I'm easily SW. So I'll put Tate at 2 and Van at 1. That's good. Those are my power rankings for this week.
- [141:31]
A
That's good. You need a van LSU jersey up there to replace the two of jersey.
- [141:35]
D
There we go. All right.
- [141:37]
A
House has to go. Billy, pleasure. Great to see you guys. Thanks. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to House and Billy. Thanks to Legs. Thanks to Gahal and Eduardo as well. And we are going to be back on Sunday night with guest alliance and a lot of good football games. Can't wait to talk about the them. Enjoy the weekend. Must be 21 plus on President select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + on President D.C. kentucky or Wyoming game problem called 100 Gambler. Visit rg-help.com call 888-797-7777 or visit ccpg.org Chattinconenetic or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-32755 for 247 support in Massachusetts or call 877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York.