Part 2: Cleveland Survives, Knicks-Sixers, and Whaddya Do for Denver, Houston,  and Atlanta With Zach Lowe

Summary

Podcast Summary

The Bill Simmons Podcast – Part 2: Cleveland Survives, Knicks-Sixers, and Whaddya Do for Denver, Houston, and Atlanta With Zach Lowe
Date: May 4, 2026
Host: Bill Simmons | Guest: Zach Lowe

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Episode Overview

Bill Simmons and Zach Lowe return for Part 2 following two "Game 7 duds" and break down the NBA playoffs, focusing on the Cleveland Cavaliers' gritty win over Toronto, the upcoming Cavs-Pistons series, Knicks-Sixers matchups, and a deep-dive into the offseasons of Toronto, Atlanta, Portland, Houston, and Denver. The conversation, punctuated with trademark Bill-and-Zach humor and NBA nerdery, also explores league-wide implications, coaching hot seats, statistical oddities, and even a cameo by Zach Lowe’s Apple TV appearance.

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1. Cleveland-Toronto Game 7: Why Was It So Ugly?

00:00–12:30

• Game Context:

  • Cleveland survives a physical, ugly series vs. a "weird and big and super switchy" Toronto (00:58).
  • Missed stars: Quickley and Ingram for Toronto were out; Toronto's talent gap becomes a playoff hurdle (03:53).
  • "You're just asking too much of guys like Jameson Battle and Mamu and, you know, Jamal Shed... marginal NBA players going into the season" – Zach Lowe, (04:06).

• Cavs Survive, Not Dominate:

  • Is it embarrassing for Cleveland this went seven games? Simmons: "Is it kind of embarrassing for Cleveland that this went seven?" (03:32)
  • Lowe: "I don't think so...Cleveland in seven was my pick." (03:44)
  • Toronto played physical; Cavs showed needed resilience, especially Jared Allen: "Jared Allen in particular came for the fight today." – Lowe (05:10).

• Player Performances:

  • Max Strus: "A shout out to Heat culture throwback game." – Simmons (05:36)
  • Jared Allen: Showed emotional and physical engagement; wanting to shake trade rumors.
  • James Harden: Not spectacular offensively but controlled mistakes, earned FTs – "He controlled his turnovers. He only had two turnovers, which is big...Harden had reached the stage where he was saying to himself, I just got to junk my way to 10 free throws." – Lowe (06:35)
  • Donovan Mitchell: "He was another one. That kind of came and went." – Simmons (07:24)

• Critical Stats:

  • Cavs out-rebounded Toronto 60–33 (09:48).
  • Both teams shot 28% from three in a "rock fight" of a game.

• Notable Quotes:

  • "Toronto is a pain in the ass to play against." – Lowe (04:49)
  • "Jalen Brown's Twitch stream...he was not happy with the flopping and the officiating." – Lowe (10:32)
  • "Inside the NBA ended it. They did the gone fishing for the Celtics... reenacting the Titanic, Mike Vrabel and Diana Rossini." – Simmons (11:15)

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2. Cleveland-Detroit Preview & the Eastern Conference Picture

14:18–17:56

• Cavs-Pistons Next:

  • "These teams have played entertaining games during the regular season. I probably have slightly higher hopes for this series than most..." – Simmons (14:21)
  • Strus-Duncan Robinson 'Heat Castoff' subplot (15:53).
  • "I think it should be a long series. I would probably slightly lean Cleveland..." – Lowe (15:28)

• Matchup Technicalities:

  • Who guards who? "My lean would be Cleveland in 6 and I don’t feel good about it." – Simmons (14:47)
  • Defensive matchups for the Cavs (16:24).

• Coaching Pressures:

  • Kenny Atkinson and Cleveland’s high-pressure situation after trading Garland for Harden (16:43).

• LeBron Watch:

  • LeBron's next team mused upon; consensus is still likely the Lakers, with financial questions looming (17:20).
  • Simmons claims he originated the “LeBron spends a million a year on his body” story (18:05).

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3. Statistical Oddities & NBA Nerdery

18:59–22:40

• Zero to 100 Point Scoring Games Record (from Chester99 on Twitter):
  • "Greg Kite has the most 0 point games in NBA history…Reggie Evans had 61 one point games." – Simmons (19:00)
  • "It’s just a high class, high intellect version of name some guys— but it has math attached to it. So I like it." – Lowe (21:40)

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4. Toronto’s Offseason: What Do You Do?

22:40–27:58

• Cap Nightmare & Frustrations:

  • "Sadly they’re paying Ingram 40 and 41 next two years and Quickley 32.5 each of the next three." – Simmons (22:57)
  • Likelihood of attaching assets to move on from bad contracts; Quickley "just hasn't been healthy enough" (23:28–23:36).

• Young Core Promising:

  • Nice progress from Barnes, Walter, CMB (24:43–25:34).
  • Problematic extension for Poeltl likely blocks Toronto from a "go crazy" trade for a star, e.g., if Giannis ever demanded out.

• Barnes' Ceiling:

  • Is he THE guy on a contender? "I am not sure he could be the best guy on a championship team, but he can definitely be the second best guy..." – Simmons (26:11)

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5. League-Wide What-Do-You-Do(s): Atlanta, Portland, Houston

49:03–59:24

Atlanta

• Roster Flexibility and Cap Space:
  • "You could create up to $29 million in cap space if you get creative." – Simmons (50:11)
  • Wait for lottery; see where they pick; not time for big moves yet – Lowe (50:11–51:55).

Portland

• Best Contract: Deni at $13M/year (53:04)
• Financial logjam:
  • "They're gonna be a tax team next year...and an owner who is already getting stories written about him every day for how cheap he is." – Simmons (52:29)
  • Questions about the Dame contract; Drew Holiday looks good, Grant's contract problematic.

Houston

• Three Possible Paths:
  1. Stand pat with talents (Durant, Sengun, FVV, etc.).
  2. Go aggressive and trade for a superstar (e.g., Giannis) by flipping Sengun/picks.
  3. Pivot younger and offload veterans (Durant, VanVleet, Adams) – Lowe (57:31, 57:58).
• Brooklyn/Pick Dynamics:
  • Expecting Brooklyn to get aggressive to avoid giving away a top pick to Houston.

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6. Denver: To Panic or Not?

59:24–68:52

• Postseason Disappointment:

  • Shams report: “Everybody but Jokic is available” – are the Nuggets really ready to pivot?
  • Simmons: "If I'm Denver, I'm doing nothing...I'd really want to re-sign Peyton Watson" (59:26–60:23).
  • Lowe: "I think they have to bring him back and that's going to cost you money." (60:34).

• Roster Issues:

  • "Christian Braun...how did he just lose the ability to play offense? And also why did he stop being a shutdown guy on defense?" – Simmons (61:05).

• Minnesota Overachievement:

  • "They got the big IO game. Naz Reed was really good. Conley...Shannon massive in the elimination game." – Lowe (63:53).

• Jokic, Three-Point Shooting & His Place in History:

  • "The three-pointer is a fickle animal...it was eye opening that he didn’t have the same level of answers for Gobert..." – Lowe (66:14).
  • Simmons reveals Jokic drops two spots in his personal all-time rankings (67:01).

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7. Western Conference, Playoff Odds, and Finals Outlook

37:33–44:39

• Thunder & Spurs as Future Juggernauts:

  • "...seems unlikely that they are going to be anything but like 58 plus win teams for the next five years." – Lowe (68:13).

• Knicks-Sixers Next:

  • "That’s going to be the best of the four series..." – Simmons (40:34).
  • Matchups: Animosity between Embiid and the New York crowd, Maxi vs. Brunson, Embiid vs. Towns, OG Anunoby's defensive role (41:11–42:53).
  • "Alvarado and Embiid are going to have a moment at some point in the season..." – Lowe (42:53).
  • Flopping watch: “Double flop offs” with Embiid, Towns, and Brunson (43:06–43:47).
  • Knicks fans eye the easiest road to the Finals in years; would be "more painful" for New York to lose in this round than Philly (44:39)

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8. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "[Jared Allen] was just running amok...Please stop throwing me in trade rumors, I'm happy here." – Simmons (05:35)
• "It's a high-class, high-intellect version of 'name some guys.' But it has math attached to it. So I like it." – Lowe (21:40)
• "[LeBron] spends a million dollars a year on his body...I was ground zero for that story." – Simmons (18:05)
• "Does Twitch count for NBA monitoring purposes?" – Lowe (11:07)
• "If you win a championship, every trade's good. Every trade's an A plus." – Lowe (41:18)
• "One thing did happen from that series. I had to drop Joker in my pyramid spots. Two spots." – Simmons (67:01)

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9. Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:58 – Cavs-Toronto series analysis
• 03:32 – Is Cleveland’s win embarrassing?
• 06:31 – Harden’s unusual effectiveness
• 09:48 – Rebounding stats breakdown
• 10:32 – Jalen Brown’s controversial Twitch stream
• 14:18 – Cavs-Pistons series preview
• 16:43 – Kenny Atkinson’s job security
• 22:40 – Toronto’s expensive roster conundrum
• 26:11 – Scottie Barnes’ role ceiling
• 49:03 – Atlanta offseason options
• 53:04 – Portland’s financial logjam
• 57:31 – Houston’s three paths
• 59:24 – Denver: Don’t Panic?
• 67:01 – Simmons drops Jokic in all-time ranking
• 68:13 – OKC and Spurs as future Western Conference superpowers
• 41:11 – Knicks-Sixers storylines rundown

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10. Fun & Miscellaneous

• Zach Lowe’s cameo on Apple TV’s "Friends and Neighbors" (69:32–70:47).
• Statistical rabbit holes: NBA point totals leaders for every score (19:00–21:40).
• Inside the NBA’s "Gone Fishing" gag and social media recaps.

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11. Tone & Style

The episode is loose, nerdy, and irreverent, juxtaposing real analysis with banter and sidebars. Zach and Bill riff on player psychology, front office strategy, and the absurdities of NBA culture—flopping, contract handcuffs, Twitch-streamed ref rants, and the inescapable "LeBron spends a million" trope. The tone remains conversational, with both hosts dropping stats knowledge and quick-witted jabs throughout.

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Transcript

[Bill Simmons]

This episode is brought to you by America's Cookout classics, Heinz, Kraft and Oscar Mayer. This summer we're celebrating 250 years of America cookouts with all the classics, Heinz, Kraft and Oscar Meyer. I love hot dogs. Anytime it's a cookout, you have to have multiple kinds of hot dogs. I need different kind of food like some people like the burgers and the turkey burgers. Gotta have the right playlist in place, gotta grill some vegetables, but for the most part you really need the hot dogs. And I need multiple types of mustard too. Make sure to top the burger with only the best Heinz ketchup and Kraft singles. I'm a ketchup and burgers guy. Dress up your sides to impress all summer long with Kraft Real Mayo and Kraft Dressing. No matter how you cook out, you'll find the same favorites on every table. Heinz, Kraft and Oscar Meyer. Shop at your local retailer. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. It's been a wild playoff run. Not over yet. FanDuel wants to bring you closer to the court to make all of that action come to life for you. The basketball fan. Fanduel the best place to bet the team's players plays during NBA postseason. Build a same game parlay for a shot at a bigger payout or try live betting and jump into the action right after. Tip off whatever you want. That's the whole point of live betting. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app right now and play your game. 21 select states are 18 DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Game problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER, call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat. It's the Bill Simmons Podcast. We are live on Netflix for the second time today. Zach Lowe is here. New rewatchables for me coming on Monday. We're doing There's Something About Mary which is also available on Netflix along with a whole bunch of comedy movies that I covered in part one. Zach Lowe has a podcast Tuesday morning, Thursday morning and I really hope we have better games to discuss than the two we had today. Two two duds. Two game seven duds. Unless you were fans of Cleveland and Detroit, this game felt like it had potential. This Cavs Raptors game heading into halftime, there were some great storylines at play, including LeBron. Next year, Cleveland.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh boy. Okay, we're going right now.

[Bill Simmons]

Mitchell trades Mobley Giannis like, let's go. And then Cleveland's like, hold on, hold your horses and took care of business.

[Zach Lowe]

I mean, you can revisit all those storylines next round. If. If that doesn't go badly for the Cavaliers, it'd be interesting to see how the Cavs and the Pistons coming off just like gnarly series where they just couldn't get untracked offensively against, you know, in particularly, I think the Cavs against the Raptors team that just weird and big and super switchy. If they. Both those teams get to the next round and they're like, all right, this feels a little bit like more conventional basketball to us. We feel a little bit of, like a sigh of relief, even though, you know, Detroit is a gnarly team themselves. But it's just Toronto is just a different kind of team. They're built differently. They're a weird team to play against.

[Bill Simmons]

Missing multiple players that they're paying lots of money to. This is my first question for you. Is it kind of embarrassing for Cleveland that this went seven games?

[Zach Lowe]

I don't. I don't think so. I. Cleveland in seven was my pick, so I'm not surprised that it went seven.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. But did you know Quickley and Ingram were basically going to be scratched from

[Zach Lowe]

the series quickly scratched the whole series? You knew going into the series that it. I mean, I remember saying, like, it's probably bad for their offense and good for their defense. The Ingram one, as he was not exactly lighting the world on fire in this series, but there's just a certain critical mass of talent you need to beat a team like Cleveland four times in seven games. And as critical as you want to maybe be of the way Ingerman played, it's just. You're just asking too much of guys like Jameson Battle and Mamu and, you know, Jamal Shed, God bless him, at an unbelievable series, and then the jumper deserted him in the second half of the game today. It's just. It's just like these guys were marginal NBA players going into the season, and you're asking them to get you over the finish line on the road in game seven against a team that has four guys who have made all star teams pretty recently. It's. It's a tall. It's a tall order. So is it embarrassing?

[Bill Simmons]

AJ Lawson is furious that you didn't mention him.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, he's furious at everybody because he looked like he wanted to start a fight from the moment he got into the game.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought.

[Zach Lowe]

I found the whole thing delightful. But, you know, he. He. Who did he flag? Wrapped up Jared Allen and threw him to the floor. Got called for a flager. A1. I don't think it's embarrassing. Toronto is a pain in the ass to play against and you know, Cleveland could have won game six easily. They could have won game four easily. They ran away with it tonight in a way. By the way, for, for. Look, I don't want to like damn them with faint praise, but it was nice to see Cleveland come up against a team that basically looked them in the eye and said, you guys have wilted under physicality in the playoffs before. We don't really have a lot of other ways to beat you given our talent deficit, other than beating the hell out of you and seeing how you responded. And like Jared Allen in particular came for the fight today and took the fight to Toronto and like good sign for the, for the Cavs, I think

[Bill Simmons]

I thought Streuss was incredibly important. Yeah, the two, the two guys I had written down, Max Drew said a shout out to he culture throwback game and Jared Allen had a shout out to please stop throwing me in trade rumors, I'm happy here, I don't want to be the fall guy this summer kind of game he was, especially in the third quarter. I thought he swung it and you know, if you're Toronto and you're looking at a big picture and you just did that crazy extension for Pearl that made kind of no sense when it happened, hasn't even really kicked in yet. Um, and seemed either unplayable, semi playable or sort of playable, depending on where you caught him in the series. But Jared Allen was just running amok. And then the other thing, Harden wasn't bad. They were, we were headed toward maybe sort of a, an old school throwback, terrible James Harden playoff game. Um, and then actually he got going and then once they had a bigger lead then he looked very comfortable.

[Zach Lowe]

He, he got going in a way that I, I look, we're predisposed to be nervous about James Harden in big playoff games. He, he was three of nine from the floor. He controlled his turnovers. He only had two turnovers, which is big. He's had some high turnover games, but he got like, you know, Jacoby Walker, Jacoby Walter stuck his arm in the cookie jar, got a three shot foul. There was that one drive that I think it was the third foul on Scotty Barnes where they were kind of running parallel on a Harden drive into lane and Harden kind of veered sideways into him and Scotty Barnes also kind of veered. I, I, it was, it was, but it, it Harden had reached the stage where he was saying to himself, I just got to junk my way to 10 free throws. That's the only way I'm going to have a productive game. And that makes me, that makes me a. A little nervous. Just a little nervous.

[Bill Simmons]

He was active defensively for James Harden.

[Zach Lowe]

He was,

[Bill Simmons]

he wasn't bad. And then Mitchell, who finished with 22, nine for 20, he was another one. That kind of came and went. There was that first half definitely had the makings and makings of a collapse. The crowd was really nervous. Tirico and Reggie were on it. They could feel it. And they finished the half strong. Like I think it was seven points with, I don't know, 90 seconds left or something. Cleveland made a couple shots and a couple plays. By the time we got to halftime, I was like, okay, let's take a breath then. Top of the third quarter blew him out for. So for. From a Cleveland standpoint, I don't know what I learned. They're going to be going into this Detroit series, which is an even more physical, athletic version of what we just saw with Toronto with the bonus that they actually have a guy who can create good shots and good shots for other people. Toronto had this weird mix of Barnes, who's not quite ready yet as a creator, and then RJ Barrett, who I thought, I don't know, I thought he increased whatever his trade value was heading into the last year of his deal. I actually liked his competitiveness. He had the big shot in game six, but that was really it. Cade's another animal from those two guys. I think as a crunch time guy

[Zach Lowe]

at the same time, I mean, Detroit was a better defense than Toronto this year. They're two of the top five defenses in the league. I think Detroit was second, Toronto was fifth. They're just a little bit more conventional than the Raptors are, particularly when they put CMB at the 5 and just switch everything and muck your whole life up. And it's just going to be interesting to see if like the Cavs offense even, even today, take away the offensive rebounds. They just didn't look very in sync. Like Harden and Mitchell don't look in sync with each other. There's just been a lot of dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble. Their assist rate is way down. They're taking way more pull up threes in this series. I think a lot of that has to do with Toronto. Just sort of drags you into that style with their switchiness and the way they play. I bet they feel a little bit looser against Detroit, which sounds paradoxical because Detroit is a nasty Physical grade defense. I just think they play a little more conventionally. But I think it should be, I think it should be a good, a good series. Two teams that should be super hungry to get to the next round. All these teams should be super hungry. I mean Embiid and the Sixers have never made it out of this round in his tenure there. The Knicks have all the pressure on them to duplicate last year's run and get better than that. So it's going to be a fun second round in the east setting.

[Bill Simmons]

Cleveland, I rebounded them 60 to 33.

[Zach Lowe]

Holy smokes.

[Bill Simmons]

Both teams shot 28% from three.

[Zach Lowe]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

As you mentioned, it was a rock fight that took forever and we had multiple stoppages and reviews and I thought the refs were really, really bad from a one sided standpoint. And I had no dog in the race. I didn't really care who won, but I thought. I just felt like Toronto didn't get a call for two and a half hours other than a couple on streuss.

[Zach Lowe]

But it did a foul. Mobley was in foul trouble for a

[Bill Simmons]

lot of the game. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't love the whistles, but it was a classic road team. Game seven. You're not going to probably not getting those calls unless you're Philadelphia in Boston.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

All right.

[Zach Lowe]

Were you watching Jalen Brown's Twitch stream during the game? Is that what you were doing when this game went to reviews? Were you watching Jalen on. I think it was Twitch. I'm not on Twitch. I'm not really, I don't really know what's going on there, but I saw some clips on Twitter and he was not happy with the flopping and the officiating.

[Bill Simmons]

I was told there was some director's cut Jalen stuff going on. Definitely one of those. Start getting texts. I'm like, oh no. Oh boy, here we go. He even I think hinted that in the last three games there was refs in each game that were not on the level, which I don't know if that. How well that's going to go over.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. Does that count? Does Twitch count for NBA like monitoring purposes? Does the league office get to.

[Bill Simmons]

I think everything counts.

[Zach Lowe]

Everything counts. Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, they're pretty. They, they care every time the refs are insulted by players or coaches. So that was going on. And then the other thing that happened was inside the NBA ended it. They did the gone fishing for the Celtics. I was proud that I made the boat. So did Matt Damon and Ben Affleck and John Krasinski. And then at the front, reenacting the Titanic, Mike Vrabel and Diana Rossini. And they did not acknowledge it, but they were laughing. And then now it's a big thing on social media. So those two events were more, those two social media events were more exciting than this game, I think.

[Zach Lowe]

So I did see the clip on Twitter of them talking about the boat and Ernie saying, there's our friend Bill Simmons on the boat and John Krasinski. And then they were just like, and there's other people on the boat. Some other people are on there.

[Bill Simmons]

All right. I got to say, it was really funny.

[Zach Lowe]

Here's the word from. Here's the word from Kia. I would love to have been like, who? When they created it, there had to have been a meeting. It was like, are we, are we doing this? Is we like, we're putting them on and we're doing the Titanic pose? We're good with that. There had to be someone who was like, guys, I don't know. And then someone else who was like, screw that. It's funny. We're doing it. And then it got green lit.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, nothing would be more fun than inside the NBA being in fuck it mode with ESPN over the next couple rounds. Just feeling like, yeah, please stop pushing the envelope, guys. Can you handle this episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. For small business, every hire matters, but the time and resources required to hire right are Limited. Luckily, LinkedIn Hiring Pro is built for that reality. It's your hiring partner, designed to help you hire with confidence by surfacing only the right candidates. Without turning hiring into another full time job, Hiring Pro streamlines the entire process, from drafting your job to shortlisting candidates and conducting AI powered screening interviews. Its conversational interface lets you describe what you need in plain language. No recruiter jargon needed. Nearly 60% of hires find a candidate to interview within a week. With Hiring Pro, you spend less time searching and more time connecting with the right talent. Hire right the first time. Get started by posting your first job for [e-mail] Simmons that's LinkedIn.com Simmons terms and conditions apply. This episode is brought to you by Holiday Inn by ihg. If I'm ever traveling for work, where I stay is so important. I actually really care about this because sometimes I even have to do a podcast. And wherever I'm staying in general, I don't go on the road that much. But when I go on the road, I like to be in a nice hotel with a nice room. I'm spoiled if you sound like me. Check out Holiday Inn. It has a whole new energy, especially for business travelers. You'll see it everywhere from refreshed rooms to reimagined social spaces. And dining done right with new drinks and dishes. And for business, there are flexible spaces that work for the way you work. It's a new day and a new stay. Book [e-mail] I know it. Big, big, big picture. You mentioned Cleveland versus Detroit, which is our round two matchup.

[Zach Lowe]

Now

[Bill Simmons]

these teams have played entertaining games during the regular season. I probably have slightly higher hopes for this series than most because I think there's animosity on both sides. You have the Schroeder piece where he used to play for the Pistons and he'll be up to stuff.

[Zach Lowe]

That's every series with.

[Bill Simmons]

No, but he's. Yeah, I know he's been on every team in the league, but I always enjoy that. Was he. He was on Toronto too, right?

[Zach Lowe]

Yes, he was.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he's on. I just figure he's played for every team. But we have that. We have, you know, Max Struse, no stranger to the physicality. We have the Beef Stew Jalen Duran combo battling the two soft spoken Cavs guys. But I thought, I remember watching one of these games and Cleveland seemed really comfortable going against Detroit and I think my lean, even though I don't really like this Cleveland team that much at all and I think they give up a lot of open shots. I'm just not sure Detroit's going to be the team to exploit that. So I got to look at this more. But my lean would be Cleveland and 6 and I don't feel good about it.

[Zach Lowe]

I don't feel good about either of these teams coming off the series. I'm going to take a lot of tomorrow and go back and watch some of the games that they played and get a sense of who guards who and what the matchups are going to be and strengths and weaknesses of all that. I think it should be a long series. I would probably slightly lean Cleveland but awesome performance by Detroit today. We already talked about that. Yeah, and you bet. Like strut the Streuss Duncan Robinson, Heat culture castoff battle is happening.

[Bill Simmons]

Forgot about that. That's a good one.

[Zach Lowe]

I think it would be a funny subplot if like mild manner Jared Allen. Like if Beef Stew did something and he just like snapped. Just Jared Allen just snaps and like knows and knows karate or something and just we stuff we didn't know about Jared Allen and it just. Who knows anything's possible with beef Stewart. We have a.

[Bill Simmons]

We have some open for a reason guys on both teams, a lot of them. I assume the Cavs will probably just put harded on Thompson, right?

[Zach Lowe]

Maybe. I mean, you could, you could put, you could put Evan Mobley there if you want to have him as a help defender. I mean, it's one of the reasons why Suggs was guarding a sar Thompson is to have your best help defender, you know, be the help guy. So they could. Some people put their centers on Thompson and sort of risk it. They could put Jared Allen there and put Mobley on Stewart. There's a lot of different things they could do.

[Bill Simmons]

Was that a Kenny Atkinson, I saved my job game tonight.

[Zach Lowe]

It would have been interesting off season in Cleveland. I mean, you remember we did our draft of all the playoff guys and one of them was hot seat. Sneaky hot seat category coach. And I said, Kenny Atkinson or Chris Finch? Chris Finch has answered all the questions. And I said, by the way, I don't think either of them should be. But I do think this is a very pressurized season for Cleveland, which is why that second quarter felt so fraught. Because you know everything that's at stake, particularly when you make a trade like Garland for Harden, like you're, you're messaging to your team is pretty clear, like, hey guys, it's. It's kind of now like, let's do it.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you think LeBron was doing watching that game? Like, deep down rooting for Toronto to open up a Cleveland possibility? Because we still don't have a LeBron team next year?

[Zach Lowe]

Don't you think it might be the

[Bill Simmons]

Lakers at this point?

[Zach Lowe]

Don't you? Well, I mean, why wouldn't it be the Lakers? Like, what, again? A lot of it comes down to money, right? Like, what kind of dealers are you going to be willing to take? But the LeBron that played the last two months of the season with Reeves and Luka, that was. It worked perfectly fine.

[Bill Simmons]

Don't you.

[Zach Lowe]

Wouldn't you think LeBron is relaxing and. Or. I don't know if you've heard this, but he spends a million dollars a year on his body, so he might be. He might be trying to. Can get ready for the, the freaking Oklahoma City Thunder.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm, I'm.

[Zach Lowe]

That's what I'm going to assume was happening.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, I think I was ground zero.

[Zach Lowe]

40. He's 41. Bill. I don't like. I don't know if you've looked that up recently. He's 41 years old.

[Bill Simmons]

LeBron James oldest player ever to do name 130 things. I was ground zero for the LeBron spends a million dollars a year on his body story.

[Zach Lowe]

Really?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, because I did it in 2016. I did it on a pod because I spent time with somebody in his circle who was telling me that. So I talked about it and for some reason got aggregated and became a story. But I'd like to feel like I was Dr. Oppenheimer for that one. Just kept going for the next nine years. I always like to throw Oppenheimer.

[Zach Lowe]

I was gonna say, I don't know if you want to keep comparing yourself or other people to Dr. Oppenheimer.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, he's, he's. Now they're making movies about him.

[Zach Lowe]

Maybe my favorite Christopher Nolan movie, by the way, Oppenheimer. Really? Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Might be over the Dark Night.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, I loved Oppenheimer. I thought it was, I thought it was. I thought it was a masterpiece.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't even know where to go after that, by the way. You just made me think of something that I absolutely loved. No, it was just a totally random thing I was going to do later. So this guy, a Chester99 on Twitter, he somehow went through and found the record holder for points for every point total between 0 and 100. So for instance, Greg Kite has the most 0 point games in NBA history at 295. 2950 point games. This was the one that broke my brain. It might be the greatest stat I've ever heard of. One point games. Somebody had 61 one point games and it's somebody that played in the last 25 years. And you won't guess it because this is impossible. Reggie Evans had 61 one point games.

[Zach Lowe]

You know, I was actually going to say it would have to have been like an inferior version of Dennis Rodman. Like someone who's just, just like that. And that's because Rodman was too good and would scrounge his way to six or five or eight or whatever. But they would have to be a player like that.

[Bill Simmons]

Your league leader for six point games, Michael Cage at 151.

[Zach Lowe]

Similar.

[Bill Simmons]

He's on the board.

[Zach Lowe]

Similar guy.

[Bill Simmons]

My guy Robert Parish. Three different holders at 14, 16 and 18. Our guy Tim Duncan, 19 points games. He had the most at 88. And then, and then our guy Dirk Nowitzki. Bring this up next time you're on the Amazon show. He, he's the career leader in 21 point games with 82. 82.

[Zach Lowe]

What's the biggest number? Like who? Like so is 253 the greatest single number of any kind of games on the list.

[Bill Simmons]

Harvey catchings at 193 and Greg that he had 193 two point games. Harvey catchings, great. Kite at 295 for 0 and then 295. So Karl Malone is there for 23 and 24. What's weird is Kareem wasn't on here, which I was surprised. And then it gets to 25 and LeBron has the record for 25, 26, 27, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37. And he's tied at 38. And Jordan only has 38, 39 and 40. And then we move into like Jordan will territory.

[Zach Lowe]

What a great. I got. You got to send me this.

[Bill Simmons]

I'll send this to you. I was reading it for, for literally 45 minutes. I haven't been more riveted by anything on Twitter in a while.

[Zach Lowe]

I mean, it's just, it's a, it's a high class, high intellect version of name some guys. Like, oh, Greg Kite, Harvey Ketchings, Michael Cage. It's just like let's name some guys, but it has math attached to it. So I like it.

[Bill Simmons]

Derek Fisher has two different ones. Five and seven point games. He has the records for both. But T.R. dunn has the four point game. I really love this. I need more, I need more content like this in my life. So Cleveland barely beats a team that had settled in crunch time in Game 6. CMB A rookie, Jamal Shed, RJ Barrett, Scotty Barnes and Walter. That was their crime. That was basically their money lineup in game six. And then they tried to keep it going again today. Probably spent, I'm going to say 75 million combined on those five guys this year. And they're going against Cleveland. That has Mitchell Harden, Mobley Allen, even Max druce makes like 17 million a year. Noble effort for Toronto.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What happened? What happens? Let's play. What do you do with Toronto? What do you do?

[Zach Lowe]

Oh boy. Well, I have a lot of different things I could do because I've got all my picks. My roster is too expensive. Let me bring them up their cap sheet here.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, sadly they're paying Ingram 40 and 41 next two years and quickly 32.5 each of the next three.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, I think.

[Bill Simmons]

Not to mention the Pertle extension we talked about before. That gets ugly.

[Zach Lowe]

I think all of those guys have now reached the territory of I have to attach something to get off of them. If we're doing. If we're including Ingram.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean All Star Brandon Ingram.

[Zach Lowe]

I don't think that player option is. Maybe he's neutral and you could put him in.

[Bill Simmons]

Picked it up already. He just picked it up.

[Zach Lowe]

The player op nobody likes. No teams like player options. I mean, the quickly deal, which I didn't mind when it happened, has not worked out. He just hasn't been healthy enough.

[Bill Simmons]

I never liked it.

[Zach Lowe]

You know, Barrett is extension eligible and you know, he's walking in the door being like, hey, most successful Raptor season in a little bit here. And that was a big part of it. Can we, can we work something out?

[Bill Simmons]

I kind of like his game. The more you watch him. He does that crafty lefty stuff. I thought he matched the intensity, athleticism of the, of some of the playoff moments.

[Zach Lowe]

They're just in a tricky spot because you know, if they wanted to reach for the stars, right, they've been linked to Giannis before. Or like, is there a trade like everyone's going to ask for Scotty Barnes. He's obviously untouchable. Is there a trade that they can even do that would satisfy the other team and leave them with enough stuff in the cupboard to actually win? I think the right move might just be like, look, we know this team, this team probably is a little better than we thought based on our playoff performance. They're a pretty good team. We know what they are. Let's not get too crazy here and just see who can rehab their trade value a little bit. Maybe there is some sort of get out of jail free car with one of these contracts. We've got all our picks. CMB is over here with Scotty Barnes. Like that dude is awesome and I'm not doing anything foolish with him. I want him on my team for a long time.

[Bill Simmons]

I like Walter too. Walter's good. I think he's a keeper.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, they learned some good stuff about some of their young players in this series. Like Walter was totally up for this, made some big shots, had a little slump in the middle of the series.

[Bill Simmons]

She had a nine man rotation guy. Yeah. So they have a couple. The problem is that Proto extension kills them for a Giannis thing because if, if they, if that wasn't attached to the end and when you talked about go crazy like that was crazy when it happened and now it seems even crazier. But you could have had expirings and RJ expiring and two years left or one year that would have been expiring for Pearl. So basically that would have been your expiring package and they have all their picks, they have everything. So they can do every combination of picks and swaps so that if Giannis had said send me to Toronto, they at least could have had something semi respectable. I'm not sure they're going to be able to get there the way it is now.

[Zach Lowe]

Grady Dick just not being able to play is a pretty big disappointment considering

[Bill Simmons]

what happened with that. You liked him for a split second, didn't you?

[Zach Lowe]

He can do some stuff. He just hasn't made enough shots and he's not good enough defensively and he. He's got some just Walter just passed him and there was only room for one of them in the rotation.

[Bill Simmons]

And did he do enough that he can get a Grady Dick was a problem Twitter video In like 10 years

[Zach Lowe]

or no, he easily we can make it this week if you want it to be at least three and a half minutes long.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, good. I just wanted to make sure he at least had that.

[Zach Lowe]

Only the half of the video would be jersey swaps. The other half would be his actual place.

[Bill Simmons]

True. The big thing for them was Barnes had a great season. He went up a level. I am not sure he could be the best guy on a championship game, but he can definitely be the second best guy and he might even be able to be the Jalen Brown with his version of Tatum. I thought, you know, physically, athletically, competitively, he has everything. There's just. It's really hard for him to create his own offense. He could do it. It never feels great. It's very similar to where Iguodala was in those Philly years and even that one Denver year where it's like he can do it. It's probably not a great sign for your team if he's the one doing it and he's so much better if he's kind of over here. So they got to figure that out and I don't know how they figure it out with the roster they have.

[Zach Lowe]

I think the mid Ranger is coming along. I felt more confident in it in the series than I had before and I really think he is the guy that would have benefited most from the idea of what Emmanuel Quickley was supposed to be for this team. Sort of a good shooting like half point guard, half spot up guy doesn't need the ball but can work with it, can run pick and rolls both ways with Scotty and just sort of loosen the defense up in ways that a guy like shed can't do. And we just like haven't seen quite enough of that combination over the last, you know, two seasons to. To really see what it could be. But Scotty left a lot of guys this year. Like, like he, he left a lot of guys behind him in the NBA player rankings. Like banker. It's not close right now. Well, maybe it's close but like he, he left a guy. He left. He left guys like that and then he might make all NBA and it wouldn't be like illegitimate. He had a great year and toughest shit in the playoffs. He was ready for all of it. Played super hard.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm going to thought bubble a trade that I would love them to do and you're probably going to jerk backwards and then be upset and maybe go deep in the thought for like five seconds. Brandon Ingram for Kevin Durant.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay, so if I'm the Rockets, why am I doing that?

[Bill Simmons]

I'm getting off of Kevin Durant.

[Zach Lowe]

Wow. Just, just.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm just moving on. Just a lot of baggage. I'm just going to get out of that one. Money's about the same and Durant gets to probably wouldn't be psyched about going to the team that their fans cheered when. When he tore his Achilles during the Finals. I don't know if he'd be super pumped about that one, but you could work with him.

[Zach Lowe]

I don't love the Ingram fit in Houston with the other pieces that they have. I'd rather try to trade Durant and aim a little differently.

[Bill Simmons]

But how many teams are actually really think going to talk themselves into being the latest team that potentially could become unhappy just by sheer coincidence that Kevin Durant showed up and then things became unhappy Teams with talk.

[Zach Lowe]

He's still Kevin Durant. He's going to make an all NBA team this year. Did you vote him all NBA?

[Bill Simmons]

I sure did.

[Zach Lowe]

So I mean there you go. He will. He's got just next year and then a player option which is interesting I think. I think some good teams would. Would kick the tires and give Houston stuff that makes more sense than Brennan. But I will say I don't know if you read the Athletic what now they tell us story about the Rockets yesterday. Did you catch that?

[Bill Simmons]

I loved it.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, I mean but it wasn't. There was nothing in it. There was particularly irrelevant.

[Bill Simmons]

I just love when they happen because

[Zach Lowe]

I think we've all sort of made the calls and made the rounds and had the meetings of like, okay, so no one is really denying that this was actually Kevin Durant on the texts and burners and like it and they had some lines in there like sources say it was a big issue within the organization. And yeah, it was. And yeah, no one on the record, off the record, privately, publicly has come out and said, no, no, it was actually wasn't Kevin Durant. Which I don't know what else to conclude from that other than it seems like it was Kevin Durant.

[Bill Simmons]

It's too bad. We'll save the rest of it for our deep dive this summer.

[Zach Lowe]

I mean, do you disagree?

[Bill Simmons]

Nobody has come out and denied it. All evidence suggests that it is. It seemed to have had a before and after impact on the team, and it seems like it was him and they had also.

[Zach Lowe]

There was also lines in the story that were like the whole team came together and agreed to just squash it, keep it in house. We're not talking about it like the whole thing in the, in the athletic story, which I've also heard similar, like meetings took place, was just like, it was what it was a huge issue. Whatever it was, it was a big issue.

[Bill Simmons]

Taking a break for the pod Continuing to go here on Netflix this episode

[Zach Lowe]

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[Bill Simmons]

[e-mail] this episode is brought to you by 2Good and Company Coffee Creamers. How do you take your coffee? Piping hot ice? Strong? Frothy? Well, if you love rich, creamy goodness and delicious flavor in every sip, try two Good and company Creamers. They're made with farm fresh cream and real milk. Each serving has just 3 grams of sugar, 40% less than the leading coffee creamers. Two good creamers are available in sweet cream, roasted, vanilla and lavender. So which one are you trying first? Find two good creamers at your local retailer in the creamer aisle. 3. So we know all the series and Lakers, Oklahoma City. You basically can't even bet on Oklahoma City for the series. It's like you have to risk $3,000 to win a dollar. The odds for the series, though a sweep, is +125 on FanDuel and OKC. Four to one is +175. And then the odds get progressively wonkier. We just had two Massive upsets last round with the Lakers upsetting the Rockets and the Sixers upsetting the Celtics. That from a moneyline standpoint were two of the biggest upsets we've had in the last 15 years. I do not think this will be the case. Is there any sort of case you could make that doesn't involve Luka comes back and immediately goes nuts? And I, I don't even know how they would win two games.

[Zach Lowe]

I mean, Luca comes back, plus Jalen Williams remains out. Would have been an. A roadmap towards an interesting series. Yeah, I, it doesn't seem like, I mean the latest updates on Lucas, he's still a bit away and I just don't know that even with, even if J Dub, who's, I mean, when's the last time they played at this point? A week ago? If they had a week off now.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I mean their practices are probably more competitive than, than first round was.

[Zach Lowe]

You know, I, I just don't see a roadmap for the Lakers without Luca to really make it a competitive series. There'll be some competitive games that will slow it down and play their old man basketball and like whatever. But you know, it's still, you're still asking a lot of Marcus Smart and Rui Hachimura and Jake Laravia and guys that are just like the Thunder have just better guys than that.

[Bill Simmons]

Tough series for LeBron. Coming off a really fun series for him and you know, being the best guy in a playoff series at age 41, all that stuff and now you have the OKC pit bulls being unleashed on you.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, it's like, it's like the Father Time. Father Time and is like the whole metaphor is just this series. Father Time versus LeBron. Here's Team Father Time. Like a bunch of guys who are 25 and younger and awesome at basketball that you are 41 and just you have at it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, you're laughing at Father Time. LeBron. Enjoy it for the next two weeks. Biggest playoff series upsets, the biggest one in the last 30 plus years was that Nuggets, Sonics one. The Nuggets were plus 1400. But then we had Cavs Pacers last year. Pacers were plus 425. And then that's number two. Well, that recently. Okay, no, number two was we believe 12 to one.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh sure, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then 2012, Bulls Sixers. The Sixers were nine to one. But Rose got hurt at the end of game one that they were winning. And then there's a bubble one in here and Celt Sixers eight to one bucks heat from 23. Celtics Knicks is on here from 25. The Knicks were plus 550 for some reason. So yeah, I don't think there's a lot to discuss with this one. We talked about it briefly in part one about Edwards coming back from Minnesota. Anything intrigue you about Minnesota other than the obvious, which is that they're a bunch of badasses who are unafraid of everybody. There's some Go Bear Wemby, Edwards maybe convincing himself he's the best player in the series. Some of those spurs young guys maybe getting a little tight. What's the road map here?

[Zach Lowe]

The roadmap is just underestimate the Timberwolves at your own peril. Like they've proven it over and over again. This is like whatever happens in the regular season, cool. They go up, they go down. They play up to the competition and down to it. They're a really good playoff team. They're down one key guy and we got to see how IO looks and how Ant looks like they were down a lot of guys by the end of that series, but they bring a lot to the table in any matchup. They're big, they're strong, they're tough, they're going to defend. And there's a lot of interesting subplots to this series starting with Ant and like the ant Steph Castle matchup is just going to be hellacious from Steph will get the assignment on him presumably for a lot of the series.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, I'm going to say nobody under 12 courtside for this series just to be safe. Somebody brought a baby to one of the Laker games. There's like a four month old baby courtside. I just feel like that's, you know, you have to, you should have to really answer to some sort of parent court for that.

[Zach Lowe]

And I, I was, I did spend some time last week watching some Spurs Wolves just matchups just to see like who guards Wemby, how do they do that? And there was just guys have been injured off and on the entire. We've barely gotten to see the real teams play against each other. But Gobert did guard Wemby for the most part when Gobert was healthy and Wemby was healthy and Steph did Guardiant for the most part. And there's just a lot of look, spurs are better. Spurs have home court, they're healthier, they'll probably win. But I think Minnesota can make it a long series and I think they could win the series.

[Bill Simmons]

Wemby shooting threes and actually making them versus what Joker did last round would be one way to mess with Gobert a little bit. Yeah, always. Zombie Mike Conley. Can it keep going?

[Zach Lowe]

Sure.

[Bill Simmons]

The zombie that bit him, how long are the effects?

[Zach Lowe]

I mean, he's just. Gimme 12 minutes. 12 good minutes, Mike. 12 good minutes.

[Bill Simmons]

That was unbelievable. I thought he was washed up two years ago. Minnesota to win in seven is 15 to one. Minnesota to win in six is 13 to one. Spurs sweep. Two to one. Spurs sweep. And then spurs in five plus one. 95, which I think would be the smart pick.

[Zach Lowe]

So, gentle gentleman, sweep is the. Is the.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe Minnesota wins three.

[Zach Lowe]

I'm going to. I'm going to give Minnesota at least another game. I'm going to dig in a little bit more. I'm going to dig in a little bit more tomorrow, watch a little more, do a little more research. But I. My inclination is to not underestimate the Bulls.

[Bill Simmons]

They've certainly proven it and they've certainly proven that they've taken the nobody believes in us NFL mentality. Chris Finch, after the. After the win, was not shy about saying, hey, they wanted us. Did that whole thing.

[Zach Lowe]

I loved it. I loved it. I mean, those two teams legitimately hate each other, and it's awesome. I just want one. It needs to happen once or Ant's got a bit of a Runway and Wemby's the last line of defense. And Ant says, I'm going for it. And I don't know. I don't know what will happen. Like, there could be just. The rim could break. The backboard could break. Fans could be injured. I don't know. But I want to see it.

[Bill Simmons]

It's Superman 2. Superman's flying into one of those guys in the air and there's a. Yeah, that's why.

[Zach Lowe]

A puff of smoke.

[Bill Simmons]

Do you want to guess what the fanduel line is for? Pistons, Cavs for the series. Cause it's out. Who do you think's favored?

[Zach Lowe]

I think it's. I think the Cavs are favored by a very small amount.

[Bill Simmons]

The Pistons are favored by a very small amount.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

By a few small beers. Minus 122.

[Zach Lowe]

A few small beers.

[Bill Simmons]

Cavs in 7 is 6 to 1. Pistons in 7 is 4 to 1. Cavs in 6 is plus 340. I would probably go exact games over the series, Betty, in this really tough one. Honestly, this probably a stay away as a series bet, but we can't stay away tomorrow. I know. I think we're both leaning slightly toward the Cavs. But I certainly would have bet my life on either one of these.

[Zach Lowe]

I'm going to do. I'm going to do more of my homework tomorrow. I didn't do my homework yet because I wasn't going to do double the homework in the series. Cavs, Raptors just took forever. Pistons Magic took forever. So I got to do all my homework tomorrow.

[Bill Simmons]

And then Philly, Knicks. Knicks minus 260 over Philly. Philly's plus two faith theme as underdogs. And then if you want Nixon seven, which would be great, that's plus 380. Sixers and seven is eight to one. And sixers and sixes plus 550. And if you wanted to go nuts, you could bet the Sixers sweep at 25 to 1.

[Zach Lowe]

That's a ballsy bet.

[Bill Simmons]

Plus 550. Yeah, that's going to be the best of the four series unless we get Ant really looking like Ant again. Um, but I think Knicks, all the storylines with this Knick Sixers series, real animosity with the Knicks and the fans toward Embiid for multiple incidents from previous years. Um, the Maxi versus Brunson kind of each. Each side not being able to stop the other. And now they're probably not even going to guard each other. Um, the Towns Embiid, which that rekindled this weekend. I'd forgotten about the. The tweets from 2019.

[Zach Lowe]

What.

[Bill Simmons]

What else? And then OG and Anobi being the best player in a lot of different storylines we have going. What. What else do you like out of this?

[Zach Lowe]

I. I had forgotten about the cat and Bead stuff from all those years ago. So that's very exciting and I'm glad that everyone has done their job and dredging it back up for added. Added animosity. The Mitchell Robinson Embiid stuff is well known. I think it's a big Mikhail Bridges series, like, you know, good finish to the Hawks series in the last game. Found his equilibrium a little bit on offense. He. He's going to get. I would guess he'll get the maxi assignment from the jump. He's been their primary guy. It's a really tough assignment for the Knicks. They don't have a great option. I mean, not that many people do. But, you know, Anunobi's tried it, Hart's tried it. They. They tend to trend bigger defensively and not smaller and quicker. And Bridges, it's like, you know, everyone's going to laugh at that trade forever. As Brian Windhorst, our friend, always says, if you win a championship, every Trade's good. Every trade's an A plus. Every trade's fine. And so, like, here's a series that's kind of tailor made for you to. You don't have to score 22 points, you don't have to run as many pick and rolls as you did in Brooklyn. That guy. Fine. Be Phoenix. Be Phoenix. McHale bridges and play the best defense you've played as a Knick and get us 14 points a game and, like, we're all going to be happy.

[Bill Simmons]

My guess is they use Bridges to do the 94ft thing on maxi and then bring some Josh Hart in for that. And then Alvarado for five minutes a half and just, just putting bodies on him the entire court at all times. It's not always going to work. He's. He's going to be faster than everybody. He's going to get to the basket. But I think that's what you're going to have to do. You have to approach it as. We got to cut the head off on this one. On this team, he's the head. We got to cut it off.

[Zach Lowe]

Alvarado and Embiid are going to have a moment at some point in the season where Alvarado is just going to be like, annoying him or like Embiid's going to be like, what is this thing down here that's annoying me? I don't like it. And Jose Alvarado is going to get all offended by it. That's going to happen.

[Bill Simmons]

The Embiid flopping at MSG is going to be appointment viewing. They. They've already conditioned to really hate it. I know the Celtics fans were not big fans and I. And then you have the Towns piece of it too, where you, you could see a couple double flops. You could see Towns recoiling in horror. Azembi is flopping the other way and it's like a flop off, almost like an 8 mile. And we had the rap battles.

[Zach Lowe]

Every team's got a flopper. Okay, there's flop. There's floppers everywhere. Jalen Brunson has not been averse to the occasional head snap flop either. Like, there, there, there's.

[Bill Simmons]

He's another one.

[Zach Lowe]

You're right.

[Bill Simmons]

He. He coming around. A screen could go fly. That could be another flop off.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, I mean, it's. And the crowd reactions will be awesome and every player will act as if they definitely didn't flop. And I just want people to start using the flop sign more often because I think it's really fun. Let's bust it Out. I love. I. I loved Embiid. Talking shit to the fans in Boston during the game, telling them to be quiet. It was like a kind of. It was a new level of bravado for him because it was like, could have gone badly. If you blow the game, that ends up looking badly. And he was fine with it. And I like that.

[Bill Simmons]

I gotta say, he's always done it, though. Like, even in 2018, he was. He was doing it. We were like, dude, you just got in the league. What are you doing?

[Zach Lowe]

And I like it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he loves it. It gets him going.

[Zach Lowe]

And I love that. He told Philly, fans, don't sell your tickets. Get all the tickets. We can't have these Knicks fans coming down on Amtrak overpaying for our tickets. We don't want it to sound like Madison Square Garden. He laid down the gauntlet for the Sixers fans who have been waiting, waiting for this team. So let's do it.

[Bill Simmons]

Who is this a more painful series loss for? I would say the Knicks. Like, for the fan bases. This is like, if I'm the Knicks right now, if I'm a Knicks fan, the seas have parted over the last week. Detroit looks incredibly vulnerable. So does Cleveland. The Celtics are out. You had this whole Tatum revenge thing lurking. That's gone. You have this Philly team that you've already had a lot of success with, and there's just a clear roadmap now. Like, this is the year, right? This is the best chance I think they're ever going to have in the east to win this year. Right now, next four weeks.

[Zach Lowe]

It's amazing how it's turned from Hawks series is not going well. We gotta fire the coach. Like, where's the honest trade this summer? What's the move to now? Like, oh, we're. The east has broken right for us. The more painful series loss is definitely the Knicks. As painful as it would be for Philly and their fans to get a taste of this and then have the rug pulled out in the same round where the rug is always pulled out for them. I think to get that, those three games against that team, the Celtics, and to vanquish them the way they did and to just get a glimpse of. Of what this team could be if they continue to play well and lose to the Knicks. I still think it feels like a fun season with some hope for next season for the Sixers.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, we got to see Embiid play meaningful basketball again. Baxter became a guy. We clearly have something pretty special in Edgecomb. We'll see how Far it goes. And we resuscitated Paul George and we.

[Zach Lowe]

And, and we eliminated the number two seed Boston Celtics, our ancient, ancient rival for the first time in a long, long time, since 82 in pretty heartbreaking. Like, you gotta take some joy out of that if you're Philly.

[Bill Simmons]

Philly's plus 650 to win the conference. The Knicks are plus 145. What's interesting about that is I kind of think whoever wins this series goes to the finals because I think if the Sixers win the series, that will mean that what we just saw for two and a half games was actually real, for real. And then they ran through the Knicks and you know, from a talent standpoint, they're top four if everybody's healthy and Paul George is playing like that and Embiid is fine. Like you'd probably put that against any other top four. I still think the Knicks are going to win. I would pick the Knicks. But listen, man, the Sixers, they're going to play like they played the last two and a half games. It's a hard team to play, no question.

[Zach Lowe]

I will also pick the Knicks. I would lean Knicks in seven right now. I'm going to do more work on it tomorrow. But I think Cleveland to Detroit should feel exactly the same way. They should have the same attitude of like, oh, we, this is open for us. I know that they haven't, you know, an eighth seed took Detroit to distance, an undermanned Raptors team to Cleveland, the distance. But every matchup is different. Every matchup is going to feel different. And whoever wins that series is. Should not be afraid of the Sixers. Like, who can they stay healthier this whole time? The Knicks. I mean, Detroit played the Knicks to the hilt last year in the first round. I think both those teams should feel that way too.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know.

[Zach Lowe]

I've

[Bill Simmons]

Detroit going to the death store basically in that Orlando series and having to take every single ounce of everything just to win in seven, I don't think was an awesome sign for them. And then Cleveland against Toronto, losing two guys, like even just not finishing Toronto in six, not a great sign for them.

[Zach Lowe]

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[Bill Simmons]

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[Zach Lowe]

a no foundation base.

[Bill Simmons]

NARS better together. Visit Sephora to shop now I'm either I gotta do a couple more what do you do's quick okay. What do you do if you're Atlanta and you have Jalen Johnson at 120 for 4, Daniel's at 104, Acongwa at 16 and 17, Alexander Walker at 14 and 15, you're stuck with Kispert at 13 and 13. You got recharge at 13. Next year Kaminga is a free agent, CJ is a free agent and you have that New Orleans first rounder that might be in the top four. You'll be at the lottery a week from now. You could create up to 29 million in cap space if get creative. So you could do something like we discussed in part one where you could trade Daniels and the pick and try to get a franchise guy or you know, an all NBA guy or an all star, whether it's Jalen Giannis, whoever. Or you could just say I like what we have. Let's resign McCollum, let's try to lowball Kaminga and maybe bring him back for one more year to see what we have and let's try to nail this pick and look at the late 2000s for when we make a run. What would you do?

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, the first thing I gotta do is see what happens in the lottery and who I can get and where I'm picking. My inclination is almost regardless of that, given the state of the east in general. Like I mean we'll see what the the Pacers are just sort of sitting over here as the forgotten man in the east that's going to come back. You know, we'll hopefully full health.

[Bill Simmons]

Not if they get a top four pick. They will not be forgotten that.

[Zach Lowe]

Well that's true too.

[Bill Simmons]

They're they'll be adding Halliburton, Zubots and one of the four picks in in a generational draft or trading it for

[Zach Lowe]

who God knows what. But probably knowing Indiana and the way they generally operate just making the pick and saying we're thrilled to do this. My inclination if I were the Hawks would be I, I let, let me let this marinate a little bit before I do anything too aggressive. Depending on where I pick and I, I like a congu. I like new Alexander Walker. I think Daniels is an interesting player. I'm obviously not trading Jalen Johnson. Reese's Shay is the one. We just got to figure out how do we revive this, and if not, what do we do? But let's, let's see where the lottery balls fall first. I. I don't know. I mean, what's the aggressive move for them? What's. What's the other. What's the, the big move? I mean, if I would poke around on things like just, you know, it's. It's not just Giannis or Stan Pat. Right. Like, there's a bunch of middle ground stuff. Like, are there. I'd have to go through the rosters. Are there guys we could pick off, you know, that are a little bit better than one of the guys we have now? Is there like a Durant? Like, is that interesting to us at all? We mentioned Jaylen Brown before. That's a little high priced, but just is. Are there smaller moves I can do around the fringes? Because I don't, you know, and McCollum I think would like to go back there and there's gotta be a number that works. He was so good for them.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I would say they probably need some size and a point guard who could learn under the tutelage of returning free agent C.J. mcCollum. And there's a ton of point guards in this draft and they're gonna end up with somebody good. So we agree. Wouldn't do much there. Portland's a little more interesting. Denny is at 13 million in next season and 12 million the year after that, which is just probably the best contract in the entire league. Right. I would even have that over the Pritchard, who's making like 7 million a year. They have holiday at 34 and 37. They have grant at 34 and 36. They have sharp 90 for 4 and Kamara 81 for 4. And they have dame 13 and 14. And they have Scoot and Clingan still on rookie deals. So they don't. They're gonna be a tax team next year and maybe even bumping toward the second tax that they spend. They have all their picks from 27 to 30. They have a Milwaukee first swap. They get the best one out of Boston or Milwaukee in 29 and another Milwaukee swap in 30. So they have stuff to trade. And they have an owner who is already getting stories written about him every day for how cheap he is. So I don't know what to make of this.

[Zach Lowe]

And he doesn't like it. I don't know if. Well, at first I heard he doesn't

[Bill Simmons]

care who likes it. Who likes being called sheep?

[Zach Lowe]

Well, that. But the first wave of news was he doesn't care. He reads it all, and he doesn't care. And then he. Then he's being defended by the GM Joe Cronin's talking about. It's just not accurate what. What the. What he's portrayed. Look, the stories have not been refuted. Like, the guys were in the freaking lobby because they couldn't get late checkouts. Like, that's the thing that happened.

[Bill Simmons]

He does care. He paid for subs the other day for everybody. Everybody got a roast beef sub.

[Zach Lowe]

I don't like roast beef. I'll take a turkey. Turkey over roast beef?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, turkey. Roast beef and turkey. And he even had a couple tunas.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, I don't. You know, there's this Giannis noise that's out there.

[Bill Simmons]

I started the noise a month ago and then. Then found out that Giannis didn't want to go to the West Coast. I don't. Giannis wants to go to the East Coast.

[Zach Lowe]

I don't really know. I don't know. I don't. I'm struggling to wrap my brain around that one. Yeah. I don't like. They're a weird team because. Does anyone want Jeremy Grant's contract? Even. Even Drew Holiday was spectacular when he was healthy this year. The player option in 27, 28 is pretty pricey. I got to figure out Scoot. Scoot's extension eligible. It's. It feels. I mean, every team like Portland is just facing the same dilemma. It's like, yeah, we're pretty good. We're a young, rising team with a lot of assets. We don't have anyone on our team nearly as good as anyone that Oklahoma City and San Antonio has at the top of their roster. How are we going to ever compete with those two teams? And how do we get there? And I don't know. I don't know what the answer is for Portland other than. I do like that they're building around this defense, defense, defense, identity. And, like, we're at least going to make things hard for everybody. We play someone else.

[Bill Simmons]

I like where they are. I don't really understand the Dame contract at all. Why they did it, why they paid him for a year not to play. That was weird. But for the most part, I'm fine with the Drew contract. It's two years.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, he's good.

[Bill Simmons]

Next year. And then the final years didn't expire and that's fine. Grant's a little tougher, so we don't think this is like a let's go nuts and get somebody awesome team. This could be another Durant destination, by the way.

[Zach Lowe]

I mean, I think the Durant price point might not be that high if he does get traded, and I don't know that he is going to get traded. Like, does Houston have to trade him?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, they were next on my what do you do? KD at 44 and 46, Sengun at 35, 37, 39 and Jabar is at 23, 22, 24. They have FVV for 25 next year, Finney Smith 39 for the next three, Adams for two more and double figures and Capela. Adams and capella are basically 20 and 18 the next two years. Then they have a Thompson extension and they have Reed Shepard. But the thing with them, they have some really nice picks. They're going to have that swap with Brooklyn next year. They're going to have the Phoenix first. They have their own first and they have a Phoenix Dallas swap in 29, the Brooklyn one. I think we have to start really thinking about Brooklyn as a team that might do some dramatic stuff this summer because anytime we've seen a team with cap space in the position of this pick could come back to haunt us. They usually get a little more aggressive heading into that season, right. Which made me wonder like, could they be a destination for pick somebody who had had an ugly playoff exit?

[Zach Lowe]

I think absolutely they could. I mean, they've been rumored in the honest like on the fringes of the honest thing. And everyone has been like, well, what would I be, including me have said, why would Giannis go there? Who is he playing with? And I don't know the answer to that question other than I the Nets probably think if we get Giannis, we can get somebody else. We have infinite flexibility, tons of picks. You know, when Sean Marks first got there and they were just in the in so deep in the hole of picks owed to Boston and other places, they. They didn't do the thing where they got aggressive because they didn't control their pick and we have to save face a little bit, they. They did the opposite and just ate it as a sunk cost. And I wonder if they have the appetite to do that again. I suspect that you will be right and they'll try to be a little bit more aggressive than that because that that pick, it's a big asset and they've got the Phoenix stuff coming as well, yeah, the Rockets, you know, there's an argument to be made that they should just sit tight and see what VanVleet looks like. See what the team looks like with Van Vliet, Durant, Stephen Adams. Keep the pick space, what it is, and just take. Take another shot at it next year,

[Bill Simmons]

or you can even go further and maybe go, you know what? We are contenders, and we're not going to really have a chance here with San Antonio and Oklahoma City and even Minnesota. Maybe we should zag the other way. We have these picks going, coming. We got a bunch of young players. Reduce the expectations. Hey, does anybody want Van Buen on expiring? Does anybody want, you know, this pretty decent Adams contract, even though he gets hurt every year? Is anyone interested in Durant? You just zag.

[Zach Lowe]

I think that's a. I mean, the. The three paths they have to me are stamp, Pat, trade Durant andor Van Vliet in a. In a. In deals that sort of just reset your timeline a little bit about. Around the young guys or find the home run superstar. We're all in now. We trade Shen Goon plus picks, plus whatever, for Giannis or whoever else becomes available. And I think the whoever else becomes available thing is a big wild card in that, because other people, depending on what happens in the playoffs, will become. I mean, we've already seen. We talked about it in part one. Denver basically letting the world know. Everybody but Jokic. Like, our phones are open. So that means Jamal Murray. Who else would be? I mean, not. I don't think Denver wants to trade Jamal Murray, but the fact that his name is omitted from the do not ask list, according to Shams, is interesting. But to be clear, Shams didn't say Jamal Murray's name. He just said anybody but Jokic, which obviously includes Jamal Murray. So there'll be other guys like that, depending on how the playoffs go.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, there's. You could get like, a Durant, Van Vlietz expiring and some draft stuff for Murray on paper. Makes sense. I don't know why either team would want to trade with each other in the West. And if I'm. If I'm trading Murray, I probably want two pieces back. I can't remember if I said this in part one, but I was meaning to say this to you. If I'm Denver, I'm doing nothing.

[Zach Lowe]

You didn't say that.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, I didn't?

[Zach Lowe]

No.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, I'll say it more emphatically. I'm doing nothing. I just had bad luck in a playoff series. I had a weird year. I had Joker playing the best basketball of his entire career getting hurt and then Gordon getting hurt twice. And this Minnesota thing just was one of those weird things that happens in the playoffs every once in a while. Only one team can win the title. A lot of teams panic after they don't win the title. I just wouldn't panic with what I have. I'd want to be a little more careful. I'd really want to resign Peyton Watson. And even if I have to trade Cam Johnson to make that, I don't know why they can't just resign Peyton Watson. Actually spend some fucking money. This cronkies are wealthier than just about anybody. Just spend the fucking money of Jokic on your team. But I'm bringing back Watson. I'm bringing back all my guys. I got Cam Johnson as an expiring and I have a little flexibility and let's play it out and see where we are in January. That's gotta be the move. I wouldn't panic.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, that was. My counter was going to be number one. I don't. I just. We talked about this already. I just think you have to assume Aaron Gordon is going to be hit or miss availability wise for the rest of his career.

[Bill Simmons]

13th year of his career. This is who he is now.

[Zach Lowe]

And so I don't. I've got to build my team with that in mind. And counter number two is Peyton Watson. I think they have to bring him back and that's going to cost you. It's going to cost you money. Which we agree it would be great if they just paid. And they've ducked the apron and stuff before. I don't think that's likely. And so they're going to have to pay something to get off of Christian Brown or Cam Johnson. And they already owe some significant draft assets out the door to Oklahoma City of all teams in two separate drafts. So I don't, you know, it'll be interesting.

[Bill Simmons]

Another reason why they're going to be trying to stay really good. Christian Brown. I don't really understand. I thought the extension was too pricey, but it was also in the range of all these other guys that he was at least in the ballpark of that were getting between low 20s and 25, 26. I don't understand why he was so bad. Like how did he just lose the ability to play offense? And also why did he stop being a shutdown guy on defense?

[Zach Lowe]

I don't know that he was ever a shutdown guy on defense.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, he was their shutdown guy, though. You know what I mean? Like, he was the guy they would put on the other team's best perimeter guy. And it wasn't glaringly bad like it was this year. He couldn't guard anybody in that series.

[Zach Lowe]

He's. I think he's just. Because of the way their team is built and how Gordon has aged and been injured. I think he's just tasked with a role that he's not quite up to. He's a good defensive player, not a great one. And it all comes down 30% on threes. Like 30% on threes. And he missed half the season. Like, that's. And I do think the Watson thing, although he shot it really well from three this year, especially from the corners, the two of them playing together, is that going to. How viable is that going to be? Because that's your best defensive lineup is the two of them plus Gordon is that they barely played those three together all season. But to me, Watson, if. If there's a. If there's a number that makes sense for all parties. And I don't know if Peyton Watson is like actually itching to go to a place where he would have a bigger role. Like, you know, the Lakers are going to be rumored until the end of time, but I want, I want that guy back on my team.

[Bill Simmons]

And they still are in the driver's seat with it. Yeah, they can match any offer. Yeah. And we. I don't remember the last time somebody just stole a restricted free agent with some crazy offer. You have to go back to like the Jeremy Lynn Omer ASIC era for the creativity. I just. Peyton Watson and Gordon together as injuries. Not as impactful from a talent standpoint as Edwards and Desumu and defense.

[Zach Lowe]

You could just stop at Edwards, but yeah, include the other guys too.

[Bill Simmons]

Obviously not as. But what was interesting about the series was Denver couldn't replace what Gordon gave them at all. Minnesota was somehow able to patch together, you know, they. They lost the three point shooting completely by losing all those guys, but they were somehow able to patch together the defense and the rim attack with all the backups for those guys. Denver couldn't replace anything Gordon did, and that was what sunk them, you know, so. So to your point, like, yeah, you can't count on them anymore, but I also don't know who else they could bring in that could do 75% of what he does.

[Zach Lowe]

You just have to hope that Watson, although a much different player stylistically on both ends of the floor, just gives you enough pop and enough size to Mimic it and that Gordon still has enough in the tank for a big playoff run here and there. But yeah, the Minnesota thing, man, you can't give them enough credit. They got the big IO game. Naz Reed was really good. Conley. Conley was good. Shannon massive. In the, in the elimination game, they just, you know, got contributions from everyone. There was almost a, there was a Jalen Clark Jokic near fight in that game, which is, you know, it is

[Bill Simmons]

interesting that the hockey mentality start a fight with the other team's best player. Well, hope he fights back.

[Zach Lowe]

I. It's part that, but it is. Every time it's going bad for Denver, there seems to be a Jokic event in which he's a participant in sometimes not the initiator, but sometimes. Yes, the initiator. But I don't really know what to make of that.

[Bill Simmons]

What did you think of the 48 hour celebration that Jokic got bounced in round one?

[Zach Lowe]

Was there. Was that. Who was celebrating?

[Bill Simmons]

A lot of people. A lot of people were psyched that all of the Yokage stuff just had a giant fork slammed into it. I thought it was interesting.

[Zach Lowe]

I mean it was. He had a, he had a bad series. Like he just, he did like Gobert ate his lunch for a lot of the series. His jumper wasn't there. His defense wasn't good enough. It was a bad series. It was his first real postseason clunker against a team that has their number at this point.

[Bill Simmons]

The three point shooting was bad. I went back and I looked at his. I went back and I looked at his. His. Just his stats in 23 when they won, when they went 16 and 4 and. And basically rolled through everybody. His stats were unbelievable that year. That was like one. He was like 31, 14 and 10 and he shot like 47% from three. And you know, it's. You look at that and you're like, oh, his stats are still pretty good this year, but compared to where he was, they weren't. So the question for me is, at age 31, has he moved into a slightly different echelon of himself as a playoff guy? If the three point shooting is just not going to be reliable anymore, I'm not.

[Zach Lowe]

I'm not going there. I think he still has plenty of time left in his prime.

[Bill Simmons]

And the three pointer, I mean that's how I feel. But it's a question now.

[Zach Lowe]

The three pointer is a fickle animal, right? And so you. Let's say they sneak out that round. Maybe he has a hot round the next round. I Don't worry too much about that. I. It was eye opening that he didn't have the same level of answers for Gobert that he's had previously in any, in any. Like in the post, on the pick and roll and anything. He just didn't have rhythm to his game against Gobert and that we had just not seen him run into a matchup like that before.

[Bill Simmons]

When teams don't think he could make the three pointer, I think it changes how they play him, what they want him to do. And I just think Minnesota was super comfortable with it. One thing did happen from that series, forgot to tell you. I had to drop Joker in my pyramid spots. Two spots.

[Zach Lowe]

Okay.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

What does that mean? Where is he?

[Bill Simmons]

So there's this center right at the end of Level, the top level, the Pantheon. There's four centers clustered together and I've been moving them around. I'm the only one who sees the list. It's not like I'm announcing it, but it's Hakim and Shaq and Joker and Moses. I think he's right there with Moses. And I think you could. I have joker 14, moses 15. You could talk me into flipping it. But I think Hakeem and Shaq have to be above him at this point unless he can rally back with some sort of other playoff thing. Like the only one finals appearance, one title. Even Moses got to two finals.

[Zach Lowe]

It's hard. It's hard. You're too tight back to back for Hakeem.

[Bill Simmons]

And when you're in the top 15, you start to be measured by different crazy highest possible level things, you know? Hakeem in 95 wins the back to back title and just beats every. Every team he beats is awesome. Every center he goes against is awesome. He just destroys everybody. And Joker probably needs one of those, I think, to move up.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, there's. There's a lot of time, a lot of time left.

[Bill Simmons]

But I'll tell you, we're all winners though.

[Zach Lowe]

I'll tell you those, those top two teams in the west are just like. There's always injuries and things go sideways and things are. Windows are never open as long as you think they're going to be open, and finances and all that. But it's hard to see a world where the Thunder and the spurs are not pretty continuously awesome for, let's just say five years. Like we don't have to go too crazy. We don't have to say 10 years, 15 years, whatever. But like barring a catastrophic injury, which could happen, we don't want it to. But it. It just seems unlikely that they are going to be anything but like 58 plus win teams for the next five years.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, that's why for the Nuggets, the question is, I'm just studying that 22 warriors title run. Okay. That was the team. It seemed like their window closed and then it didn't. And they had this transcendent player. A lot of weird shit happened in the league that year. There are a couple injuries, there was a couple upsets, and all of a sudden they just swooped in and took it. Could we keep this nucleus together and hang around and hope for a similar situation? The answer would be us. So that's why I don't think you can panic. I think you got to keep it together. Before we go, you want to tell us about your cameo on an Apple TV show?

[Zach Lowe]

Sure. I was on your Friends and Neighbors, Season 2, Episode 5, the show I watch. I'll talk about it a little more this week. But. But it was delightful and I had.

[Bill Simmons]

So it's up now. People can watch you in a scene.

[Zach Lowe]

People can watch me and Ogn and Obi together in a scene at a party. It's a house party scene. One of the people. People who watch the show know one of the characters is a retired NBA star. Yeah. And so he's hosting a party and they decided to populate it with random NBA people. And one of the producers shout out. Jamie is just a longtime fan listener and was like, let's write Zach Lowe a role and get him in here. And I spent a day in a mansion in Long island last year.

[Bill Simmons]

Couldn't you have been like somebody who got murdered at the beginning of the episode? Like just. He could have been a dead body lying in your own blood.

[Zach Lowe]

Look, there was. There were a lot. We had a little viewing party at our house on Friday, and I don't know if you saw the episode. There's.

[Bill Simmons]

I haven't seen it yet.

[Zach Lowe]

Even by the standards of the show, there's a lot of racy material in this one. And they're like, wait, you couldn't have been like the random Amanda Pete love interest for one episode? No, I could not.

[Bill Simmons]

That was not.

[Zach Lowe]

That was not going to be my role on this one.

[Bill Simmons]

Not negotiate that one with the wife. All right.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, it was fun. The whole cast was awesome. They were so fun. It was super fun. They made it easy because, you know, when you're a fish out of water like that, it's just. It's a little like, do I belong here? Is anyone like, what do I do? And they were all super nice.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, congratulations. Now I can introduce you as your Friends and neighbors co star Zach Lowe.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, I'm an actor now. I'm an actor acting.

[Bill Simmons]

You sign up for sag, I guess I could. You get fees, all that shit. All right, Zach Lowe, thanks for hanging out for the double pod. We're probably not always going to do this, but with two game sevens that we thought were going to be pretty

[Zach Lowe]

good, neither of them were.

[Bill Simmons]

It's fine. This round two should be fun. I'm looking forward to Nick's sixers. Thanks to Cahao and Eduardo as well. Thanks to everybody behind the scenes at the Ringer. Thanks to Netflix. There's Something About Mary coming tomorrow on the Rewatchables. And then Zach's back on Tuesday on his podcast breaking down a whole bunch of stuff. Good to see you buddy.

[Zach Lowe]

Always fun.

[Bill Simmons]

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[Zach Lowe]

Your next chapter in healthcare starts at

[Bill Simmons]

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[Zach Lowe]

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[Bill Simmons]

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[Zach Lowe]

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[Bill Simmons]

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[Zach Lowe]

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[Bill Simmons]

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[Zach Lowe]

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