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- [00:00]
Todd McShay
What's happening? It's Todd McSha and I'm back with a new home and a new show at the Ringer and Spotify. The McShay Show. It's a video and audio podcast coming to you year round with all my NFL draft information, big boards, mock drafts and player movement. Plus, I'll be chatting with some of my best friends in football, including some of your favorite football analysts during the week. We'll have episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays that'll include discussions about my player rankings, who who's rising, who's falling, and who your NFL team should be keeping an eye on. Plus, we'll be reacting each week to the College Football Playoff polls and giving you previews and picks for each Saturday slate. In addition, I'll have episodes on Saturday nights with my immediate reaction to the full day in college football every week. So if you love the college game, the NFL, the draft, or all of it like me, make sure to like, follow, subscribe and get ready for the McShay show on the Ringer, Spotify and wherever you watch or listen to podcasts.
- [01:01]
Bill Simmons
This episode is brought to you by American Primeval Netflix has a new limited series. Again, it's called American Primeval, starring Taylor Kitsch, My guy and Betty Gilpin. Set in one of the most beautiful, brutal and isolated parts of America in 1857, American primeval is about people fighting over land, culture and survival in one of the most brutal, isolated parts of America, all while mother fights to save her son as they try to survive in the wild. This is going to be epic. American Primeval is now playing only on Netflix. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Whether you're ordering wings for the game, whipping up a seven layer dip, or ordering pizza, there's something about football that makes you want to eat. In this football season, Uber Eats has the best deals on game day food no matter what you're craving. From two for one Pizza to buy one get one Wings. Uber Eats will be dropping new deals each week all season long. Uber Eats, the official on demand delivery partner of the NFL. Order now for game day. Terms and conditions apply. See app for details. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I did not have a podcast for you on Tuesday and Thursday last week for obvious reasons. It was the worst week in the history of Southern California. There was just so much devastation, so much heartache, so much fear, so much terror and ultimately everything about it was awful. And some people stepped up. Fire department, police department, first responders, TV reporters On the ground, helicopter pilots dropping water, all of the people in various communities who banded together to get toiletries and extra clothes and all kinds of things people need if their house has just burned down or it's been. Or they've been evacuated. So there was some good that came out of some awful. And it was as awful as it gets. And I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. I wasn't sure that we should do a podcast today. Sal and I have reacted after round one, really, since 2007, and I don't know if we should have done a podcast, but we decided we wanted everything to feel normal again for an hour. So we decided to talk football and we talked about California at the tail end. But I wanted to just give my best to everybody out there who's been affected by this in some way, because I just can't believe it. And I don't think. I know you can see it from the video and the pictures, but I don't think you can fully believe how awful this is. So hopefully we can get through it. Hopefully we can rebuild it. Hopefully. There's a light at the end of the tunnel here, but right now it's hard to see. So, anyway, we're going to talk some football. We're not going to start with Pearl Jam. We're just going to get to the five games, then we're going to talk California at the end of the podcast. So that's the plan. Here we go. We're taping this a little after 8:15 Pacific Time. Definitely the worst week either of us have had since we moved to la. And we're going to talk about all the awful California stuff later. We'll start with football and then we'll circle back around because there's a lot to cover on that. But we wanted to hit the football first, as weird as that sounds. Sal, we had four really lousy games and then a really good one. Tampa, Washington. Washington wins their first playoff game in 20 years, and it ends up being a doink that puts it over the top that did not make up for the other four games from an entertainment standpoint, but really entertaining. I'm wondering, is Washington this season? They're not the best team, but they're the kind of the Daniel Bryan, Brett Hitman Hart, like you always have a good match when you're in a. In a match with Washington. They're one of those teams. They're not going to win the title, but they've been the most fun team this season, right? They've been in the most fun games.
- [04:58]
Sal Iacono
Fast Bill, with them not winning the title, I. Jaden. Jaden Daniels face is bleeding. I just, I just want to lick that blood right off of them. No, that's good for Joe House. Yeah, like you said, somber week, shitty week. But I feel good for Joe House. One of our fricking teams is going and advancing. But he was awesome. Jaden Daniels, he was really. I mean, they were coming after him for that guy to not turn the ball over once with the heat he was facing and just big play after big play. Good for him and good for us for finally getting a good game.
- [05:30]
Bill Simmons
36 hours later, House did not have the cojones to actually take Washington in the ringer Sunday pregame show he did. What did he do? Some bogus Tampa over. It was his way of covering his bases.
- [05:42]
Sal Iacono
Tampa over 27 and a half points and he said Washington would win. 28, 27. Yeah, he was really threading the needle there.
- [05:48]
Bill Simmons
I think the Washington fans were believing that they actually had a real chance to win this one. And the line reflected it. It was Tampa by three. But this came down to a couple of plays for me. So Washington, they're down four and Tampa gets the goal line. Stand right and it goes to fourth and five. There's like, I don't know, less than 10 minutes left. And I always think the team should, should kick the field goal, take the points, make it a one point game. Tampa doesn't do it. I. 4th and 5 is a lot when you're inside the 10. I just didn't trust that they were going to get. I thought it was a mistake. Tampa gets the big stop. They have the momentum going the other way. Fumble. Now we're going back again. Now it's 4th and 2, 4th and it was like on the 11. 4th and 2, a little more manageable. I was okay with them going in second time. Plus there was less time in the game. And Daniels delivers, comes through right. So now Washington's up three. Tampa goes all the way back down. They have this great drive. Baker has a scramble. It's second and one on the 11 and there's like less than five minutes left. They run this like QB option run with Baker gets stuffed. Then the next play like fumbled snap. Bucky Irving, he's tackled four yards behind the line. All of a sudden they're kicking a field goal and it was like, it just like tush, push it. You have first down, first down, goal to go. And you have a chance to control your destiny. Then Washington comes back down Two huge plays. That little weird screen pass flick play.
- [07:13]
Sal Iacono
That they almost could have been intercepted.
- [07:15]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, yeah. But it was a really nice play. They get it. They go down into field goal territory. Then that awesome third and one by Daniels, which is. That was the play of the game. That's why he's special. But Sal, like, over and over again in the last, like, five, six, seven minutes of these games, he's just pulling them out. I'd be scared of them if I was Philadelphia.
- [07:35]
Sal Iacono
I'd be scared of anyone if I was Philadelphia. If the plan was to play like they did today. But they're not playing Philadelphia. Right. They're playing Detroit.
- [07:44]
Bill Simmons
No. And I got all excited. I actually looked this up. Do you. Cause I thought it was Washington, Philadelphia before I realized I was confused by the standings. Do you know how many times Washington and Philadelphia have played in the playoffs?
- [07:55]
Sal Iacono
Uh, has it not happened a lot? I'll say four. One. Really?
- [08:01]
Bill Simmons
One. It was the Mark Ripon year. Washington beat him 20 to six when.
- [08:07]
Sal Iacono
They won the Super Bowl.
- [08:08]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [08:08]
Sal Iacono
Interesting.
- [08:09]
Bill Simmons
That was the only time they've ever played in the playoffs, which is weird because they play twice a year. I would have. I would have guessed. It was like. And they've been in the league this whole time. I would have guessed forever. It would have been like, 8, 7, 10, I don't know.
- [08:20]
Sal Iacono
Yeah. Yeah. Well, they're not going to play again, so that's good. But, yeah, that's. They're. They're solid. Washington, as far as the coaches go, with the fourth and two. I was with you. I, like, just take the points in a lot of these situations. I know they proved me wrong, but the plays that were running for Jaden Daniels weren't great. They. They were making him a pocket passer. They're on, like, 4th and 2 and 4th and 4. So I was all for taking the points in most of those situations. It's a different story when it's the Eagles and it's Hertz and Barkley, and if I have Lamar, if I have Henry, you know, if I have Josh Allen. But other than that, fourth and two is still fourth and two. You can kick a field goal. And I was okay with them leaving that field goal on the board too early.
- [09:01]
Bill Simmons
What did you think of. Of Tampa potentially going for a down three with, like, four minutes left when.
- [09:06]
Sal Iacono
It was like, fourth and four?
- [09:07]
Bill Simmons
That would have been like a fourth and three. After they got stuffed twice. Yeah, it was like fourth and three.
- [09:11]
Sal Iacono
I don't like it. That was. That was the play where like there was the disarray at the line of scrimmage. Right. Like they f. I never liked the next play after that. I don't know what it would have been. I know there was like easy stuff happening with Evans, but I, I kind of get it. Look, there's. There's so much to go after Bowles for. That's not one of them.
- [09:29]
Bill Simmons
Well, especially the end of the first half when he was mismanaging everything and somehow they scored anyway. I thought they should kick the field goal. And yet when they kicked the field goal, I thought Washington was going to come down and get the game winning field goal. It was weird. I didn't think they should go for it. But I also thought they were going to lose because they didn't get those two plays.
- [09:48]
Sal Iacono
I just like saying Vita Vea, Bill. I'll say Vita Vea over and over and over.
- [09:53]
Bill Simmons
I tried to order Vita Vea, Peter Luger. They didn't have it. I mean, big picture. And we know a lot of Washington fans. This was the official fuck you, Dan Steiner game.
- [10:06]
Sal Iacono
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [10:07]
Bill Simmons
You know, it was one thing, it's a cute story. They had a Hail Mary, they got into the playoffs. You know, Dan Quinn. It's a family atmosphere. They have a front office that actually knows what they're doing. Adam Peters, like they've turned the organization around. That makes them look bad enough. But now you have this awesome playoff win. Now they're playing Detroit, a team that doesn't have the most awesome defense at least until week 18 when they look pretty good against Minnesota. But Darnold also left a lot of throws that if I'm watching, I feel like I can go in there and. And at least match points with Detroit. Who the fuck knows, right?
- [10:42]
Sal Iacono
Hell yeah. Yes. You got a rookie quarterback that didn't, like I said, didn't turn the ball over at all. Many instances where he could have. I mean, that's gotta be as, you know, I don't know, they might be banged up and the Lions are more arrested and everything like that. But I think this, for now, now that we're talking like a week before, I think this is closer. They do get screwed with the Saturday thing though, right? They have six days. Yeah.
- [11:04]
Bill Simmons
Well, you knew somebody was going to get screwed with the Sunday to Saturday. I guess it would be worse if it was the Monday game, but yeah, first playoff win in 20 years. And like, you know, the Patriots hired Mike Vrabel this weekend, which was. Felt like. You heard that. We felt like it was headed that way. For five days. But I was getting intel that it was getting a little hairy on Friday night and Chicago was making a run at him and you know, and you think like, oh man, if we don't get him and we don't get back, all of a sudden we're looking at the Pete Carroll range of guys. But they get Vrabel, they have Drake made the Alba this cap space. They have the fourth pick and you know, they had probably one of the worst rosters in the league, if not the worst. They're in a division with Buffalo. There's all these reasons not to believe, but I watched a team like Washington, I'm like, they turned it around in a year. That team was a fucking, you know, shit can. And they drafted the right quarterback, they changed the coach, they brought in a really good coaching staff and all of a sudden they have 13 wins south. It's not like they're like a 9 and 8 team that snuck in. Like this team's won 13 times and.
- [12:07]
Sal Iacono
Another strike against him was the ownership and there was defecation in the stadium. And we can go on and on and on. It doesn't really make sense. Dan Quinn's done a nice with this team and like you said, this is just. They call it lightning in a bottle with this Jaden Daniels. It's terrific. But congratulations on Variable. I think that's fun for you, right? Good news to end the week.
- [12:28]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, it feels like you need the coach, you need the qb and I can kind of figure out everything else. Right. But if I don't have those two things, where am I going? And you need at least like a solid coach, maybe better than that. And you need a top 10 QB potentially. And now they have the two things and now they can try to build their roster. But I thought what the way Washington did it was the blueprint. They had a lot of really smart second level free agent signings, like the kind of going after like the B list guys, like the best of the B list. And they spent a lot of money on their coaching staff. So it seems replicable. The Pats have a really super easy schedule. Anyway, I was, I was inspired by Washington. The difference is Daniels. He's in his mid-20s. You know, he was in college for nine years. You know, there's a reason he looks like a veteran. He's almost as old as Joe Burrow.
- [13:20]
Sal Iacono
I was thinking that with Bo Nix too, I was like, maybe I was wrong about all this. And the rookies, if they have like 60 college games under their belt and They've all played in like high profile bowls and you know, they don't really get shook. But we'll talk about that game. That's a whole different story. But listen, I think part of you is saying Vrabel did this with Tannehill. He could do it with Drake May. Isn't that the bottom line?
- [13:40]
Bill Simmons
He's never had an elite quarterback ever.
- [13:43]
Sal Iacono
Yeah.
- [13:43]
Bill Simmons
And hopefully Drake May can get there. Well, I'm hoping. No, I thought, I mean I've talked about Vrabel a bunch of times on the pod. I just felt like he was hands down the best coaching candidate available. We'll see with Ben Johnson. But there's a big difference between calling plays and actually having to run a whole team and build the whole culture. I think I thought Tampa Washington was the hardest game to pick. Who'd you have in that game?
- [14:07]
Sal Iacono
I picked it right at Washington. Actually went 4 and 1 my playoffs.
- [14:10]
Bill Simmons
Oh, nice.
- [14:10]
Sal Iacono
Terrible. Over the last few years, did you get three and two or four and one? What'd you do?
- [14:14]
Bill Simmons
I just, I had all those, I never did million dollar picks this week, but I had all those anchor teasers with Buffalo and Baltimore. Eight, eight and a half point teases. So Green Bay covered by half point. The Tampa cover today. I had a lot of, lot of trouble with the Chargers lost yesterday. I had a lot of trouble with Washington Tampa because I like the same thing about both teams. I like their offenses, I like the way their quarterbacks were playing. And I thought that both of them were really these close knit teams. You know, I was reading the stories about Tampa heading into the out of the week 18 and like that Mike Evans play that we were joking about last week about, oh my God, that was kind of risky, right? To go for it, to go for a thousand yards. You have the game, you're like the playoffs are on the line. And you read the stories about it and guys were saying it was like the highlight of their careers. Like they all love Mike Evans and they were like this record meant a lot to him. He got hurt. He didn't think he was going to be back in time to try to break it. And there was just all this stuff and you could just feel the love coming out of that. They love Baker Mayfield, they play hard for him. So I was like, man, this is almost two teams. I wish these two teams are playing two other teams so I could pick both of these teams. It was one of those because everything you read about Washington's the same thing. Dan Quinn, he's turned the vibes around the mood is completely different. And they end up winning the Mood Bowl. I guess.
- [15:38]
Sal Iacono
I think we felt the same way about Rams Detroit last year. Remember I watched your place and like, why they have to square up in the first round. This is good. Yeah. So, yeah, Baker's great. When he takes off, you have no choice but to root for him somehow. He's got legs. There's like 200 more rushing yards this year than he has in the previous five. Any of the previous five or six. It's like, it's really. It's spectacular. And Mike Evans just diving backwards for a first down.
- [16:02]
Bill Simmons
It's.
- [16:02]
Sal Iacono
It is really tough. Irving runs hard. Defense plays hard. Tough to get team.
- [16:07]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, I had, I had written down. Cause I there seemed like they were going to possibly win at one point. I was researching them. They had a case for being the best 20 20s NFC team. And they still might have the case even now because they're one of the only two NFC teams that won a Super Bowl. They've had four division titles. They were six and three in the playoffs heading into this game today. Over the last five seasons, the 2000s, they're 51 and 33. It was like you would never think if you said to somebody who is the best team in the NFC this decade? I don't think they would have been a top four guess for anybody. But I think they are. It's either them or Philadelphia. They have a better record of more playoff wins. And then the loss today, like, you know, I think they would have had a chance in round two against whoever they played. But the Mayfield thing, when you think about, he goes to Cleveland, plays for four coaches his first three seasons. He wins their first playoff game with that franchise. Right. Since they came back. He tore his labrum in his left shoulder. Second game, 2021 has the year from hell. They end up paying him to go away 11 million in Carolina and go into the Desean thing. And now Baker, he's not a top five quarterback, but he's in the top 10 or 11. And you just think like this whole thing is one of the biggest disaster decisions, start to finish in the history of the league.
- [17:28]
Sal Iacono
It's so hard, I think, for us. I don't want people to feel bad for us because we're doing what we love. But we look at football and players, I think through all different lenses, right? We look at them like historically we look at fantasy wise, like, Baker's great, exciting, he's top three or four, five exciting. And it's like, okay, but where does, where does that put him actually, you know, in terms of building a team around him? So I don't know. I don't know if I want to say he's top four or five anywhere in there, but I love watching them and I love everything he brings to that team. And I feel like he's in the prime of his career, you know, like, don't compare him to Flacco. Don't compare him to any of these other guys. I hope people don't do that anymore. And I think you're right. Like, they were the best, one of the best teams in the nfc. I think they get a bad rap because it's the south that they keep winning.
- [18:11]
Bill Simmons
And we make fun of the south every year. Yeah, right. It's our fault. Yeah. The thing, if you're talking about just QB assets and we always talk about a rookie qb, how that's the best asset you can have. But they have him, his contract compared to the other monster contracts where every other Superstar is making 50, 55 million a year, whatever they're on the cap for. And I think he signed for like 30, 30 plus a year, something like that. So definitely a better asset. Anyway, that was a great game for the weekend because up until that point it felt like it was the worst weekend ever. For a variety of reasons, real life reasons, the actual games. It was just one of those weekends you're like, man, I used to love round one and this time I feel stupid watching football.
- [19:01]
Sal Iacono
Here's the thing. Once the college games are really good, I'm like, oh, the NFL is going to suck now, isn't it? We can't just have. All right, the college games are excellent. Yeah, they were very good. And then coming into this weekend, but a lot of people all over. Can we just accept the fact that we're probably not going to get good competitive games in any sport in the playoffs for the first couple rounds, can all we really hope for is a good final four as sports fans and not like tear each other's eyes out arguing over who has the better system. Like the NBA might actually have the best. There are some good four or five matchups every year, but then they have some finals that suck too. So I think you just have to hope that the final four is good and let the cream rise to the top.
- [19:46]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, weirdly, the NBA might be in the best shape for around one this year because they have so much talent and they have some teams in the 7, 8, 9, 10 range that the play ins will be fun. Now you're making. You're mad at me about the Sacramento.
- [20:00]
Sal Iacono
Yeah, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to talk about the NBA at all. I was just using as one of.
- [20:03]
Bill Simmons
No, because I saw your mind go to the Sacramento Indiana Minnesota bet.
- [20:07]
Sal Iacono
We made house. This team is going to win for the first time in 20 years and you're talking about this stupid parlay we have with Sacramento and Indiana.
- [20:15]
Bill Simmons
The Sacramento under, Indiana over, and the Minnesota under. And after we did it, Sacramento fired their coach and now they're just pulling games out of their ass game after game after game. Let's take a break and we'll talk about the other games. I Hope you're using FanDuel for the NFL playoffs. Right now all customers can get a no sweat NFL same game parlay for the Vikings vs Rams game. Just place a three legger and you'll get bonus bets back if your bet doesn't win. You could do something like take the Minnesota money line Jefferson anytime, Touchdown Jefferson to get like 80 yards receiving. Put them all together. Put boom. You got a bet. Same game parlay is the perfect way to combine your bets for a chance at a bigger payday. Build your own or choose from one of the popular SGPS pre built for you in FanDuel's top rated sportsbook app. Get your no sweat same game parlay on FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook. Visit FanDuel.com BSFanduel an official sports betting partner of the NFL. You must be 21 + in President in select states or 18 + and President in D.C. opt in required minimum 3 leg parlay required refund issues as a non withdrawable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. Max refund $5 unless otherwise specified. Restrictions apply including token expiration. See terms@sportsbook.fander.com game prom call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com this episode is brought to you by State Farm. State Farm helps you score an affordable price when you choose to bundle home and auto insurance with the personal price plan. Bundling home and auto, that's a pro move. Just another way you can save on your insurance needs. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. All right, so our schedule before we get to the rest of the games, we have Houston At Kansas City. That's an ESPN game on Saturday. It's the first one. We need a name for the round two first game on Saturday. It's not a shaky's game, but it's. It's a better restaurant that, you know, you can probably rent a table for. Get a table for like 20, 25. You wouldn't exactly have your wedding reception there. But it's serviceable and solid. It's kind of exciting, but not totally. I don't. I also don't want to insult any possible sponsors we might get, but.
- [22:50]
Sal Iacono
Well, Houston, it's like a shake upgrade.
- [22:52]
Bill Simmons
Houston.
- [22:53]
Sal Iacono
Houston was in Shakey's and now they're in this one. So it's like shaky's open, like a pop up, you know, and like somewhere, you know, and it's like in a cool area maybe. I don't know. There's still. It's still the first Saturday game.
- [23:06]
Bill Simmons
Kyle says the Texas roadhouse game. Texas roadhouses are fun.
- [23:10]
Sal Iacono
Yeah, that's good.
- [23:11]
Bill Simmons
I was going to say the Bianco pizza game, but I don't want Bianco to be mad at me because Bianco could do like a pizza pop up. You may take that personally, even though I'm complimenting it because I love Bianco pizza. Houston at kc, espn. Then Saturday night Washington at Detroit. Sunday, NBC, either Minnesota or the Rams playing in Philadelphia. So we get Collinsworth in Philadelphia. Oh, Mike, it's so cold. My nipples are frozen, Mike. I can't even feel my nipples.
- [23:43]
Sal Iacono
Can I feel your nipples, Mike?
- [23:46]
Bill Simmons
I have no feeling, Mike.
- [23:47]
Sal Iacono
That's not a night game, huh? So they're doing that three, three Eastern on Sunday. And then Romo Nance get the good one, the great one.
- [23:58]
Bill Simmons
Baltimore at Buffalo. So the storylines, I guess would be KC going for the three peat. It officially starts now. Jaden Daniels and the exciting, rejuvenated Washington commanders against the team that's really been America's team this year, the Detroit Lions, where they've just been on every week. We like watching them. We know all the characters at this point. Dan Campbell's like the dad in a Friday sitcom. Then I don't know what's more fun, Minnesota, Philadelphia or Rams? Philadelphia probably. Minnesota Philadelphia. Right. For the history of some of the games they've had, I guess it would have to be.
- [24:37]
Sal Iacono
I'm. I'm a little.
- [24:38]
Bill Simmons
Minnesota's never won the Super Bowl.
- [24:41]
Sal Iacono
Do you feel like Philadelphia is going to make every game shitty now no matter who plays?
- [24:45]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. Well, hold that thought for 30 seconds and then Baltimore. Buffalo is the great. That's it. That's. What's the side. The mvp. You rarely get this. You get this in basketball sometimes. You rarely get this in the NFL where it's like, we've argued about this all year. I think it's been a fun argument. I don't feel like it ever degenerated anything bad. I'm still not positive who I think the MVP is. Like, I left the weekend. I'm like, I don't. I. Both of those guys were awesome. I don't. I still don't know who the MVP was.
- [25:11]
Sal Iacono
They're excellent. I. I'll. I'll stand by Josh Allen. But again, you can't really be mad at what's going on if some, some one or the other wins it. I'll say it seems like Lamar has a little more help with Derek Henry, but other than that, they did beat Buffalo. They beat him pretty good. Buffalo beat the one seed. You can go either way.
- [25:31]
Bill Simmons
All right. The game before the good game was Packers Eagles, which was a classic Philadelphia win where they're up 10 nothing and their fans are just complaining and the game has no flow. You don't really know understand what's going on. They. The game. I actually watched with a couple Eagles fans today, and they're cutting A.J. brown. He's reading a book at one point because he's clearly pissed off he's not getting the ball. Everyone's like, what's wrong with Hertz? Is he healthy? What's going on with him? And they just kind of limped their way to a convincing win that was never in doubt. And they win by double digits. And then you leave the game and you go, what just happened? Are the Eagles good?
- [26:10]
Sal Iacono
I'm not.
- [26:11]
Bill Simmons
It's just. Was typical.
- [26:13]
Sal Iacono
Yeah. And I, I hated the way this is the one I'm going to get, you know, salty about because it's the one I lost. But I had Green Bay plus the points. And I wouldn't say, you know, Washington deserved to win as a road team. Fine. None of the other road teams showed up right, like Denver, Green Bay. You can't make a case for any of the Pittsburgh. But get that kickoff right, man.
- [26:34]
Bill Simmons
Just get that right.
- [26:35]
Sal Iacono
Yeah, you, you. It's all about momentum when you're on the road. If you're going to lose a call, if you're going to lose the opening kickoff, really kind of screwed there. And I feel like there were enough replays, including the overhead, to show.
- [26:46]
Bill Simmons
Oh, you're going here. Oh, I like this. Okay.
- [26:49]
Sal Iacono
What? I'm not a ref killer. Every time the Chiefs games are decided by something close, I'm like, it's hard to call it regular speed, but if you're able to replay something and you have all those angles and you have that overhead. He had it for like a two Mississippi cow. Like, is it easier now to just start digging your way through the earth to come out the other end? Is that easier to come out with the ball than it is to come up from a pile above the ground? I don't know. I don't like that. But anyway, I had to get that off my chest.
- [27:17]
Bill Simmons
They've really made it seem like it's now a reality show where it's like season 41 of the challenge. Just put 10 guys in a pile. Whoever has the ball, when we pull everybody apart, they get the ball. I texted you a couple times over the weekend. I watched football every weekend. I feel like I understand all the rules. I still don't understand what an intentional grounding is. C.J. stroud. That was one of the biggest plays in that Chargers game. It just seemed like a cut and dry intentional grounding. And they were like, no, he got it over the line of scrimmage and he was out of the pocket. I was like, he's out of the pocket.
- [27:50]
Sal Iacono
Who cares?
- [27:51]
Bill Simmons
He was two feet to the left. How was he out of the pocket? It just seemed like an automatic. He definitely did an intentional grounding because he was about to get sacked. So they said it wasn't. And then I always felt like if the guy clearly had the ball in the pile before the. He disappeared into the pile. Usually the guy gets the ball back, of course, but this time they're like, nope, he didn't totally have it yet. It's like, he didn't seemed like he had it.
- [28:15]
Sal Iacono
It also goes against all their crap about player safety. Like, oh, really, we're going to keep this going. Pass the whistle. Because you definitely obviously blew the whistle and then that. Then this guy got it, like, torn from his clutches. So I don't know. Anyway, they. Green Bay didn't score enough to win that game, and every receiver was hurt, and I don't know who they were throwing to. So good for you, Philly. But they didn't play. They didn't play great either.
- [28:37]
Bill Simmons
I don't understand. I've said this over and over again watching them. I don't understand their offense. I don't understand why it's so slow and deliberate and has no pace and has no pep and just seems laborious at all times. I don't get it. I don't understand. We were joking about it in the first quarter. We're watching like, here we go, 39 seconds till the next Saquon handoff.
- [28:57]
Sal Iacono
Yeah.
- [28:57]
Bill Simmons
This will be 37 seconds. And it's just. They play with no pace. They. They play with no unpredictability at all. They never try to put any sort of pressure. You'd think like if you have Saquon as a running back, with Hertz's ability to run and pass and the receivers they have, you could almost go, no huddle and just put a defense, you know, put them on their back pedal. They don't do anything. They're just like, nope, do all your subs, get all your guys in and out, do what you need to do. I don't get it.
- [29:23]
Sal Iacono
For the most part, as long as they don't get in a third and long situation, they're fine. If they're third and three or third and one, they could line up for the tush push on third and one and he could back out and throw it long like we saw, or hand it to Barkley. Like, it is a huge, huge advantage. What the Ravens do, what the Bills do, and specifically what the Eagles do with the tush push and third and short. I mean, because you're going to convert on fourth. But yeah, everything this team does bugs me. Now, Barkley, enough with the sliding down. Like, you're an unselfish player. Should you be a social worker, maybe like score touchdowns? People are betting on you to score touchdowns enough. It's not like you're up one and you don't want to go up eight because they're going to get the ball, like just, just finish it. It's crazy already. So. I don't know.
- [30:08]
Bill Simmons
I actually rewounded. It seemed like the D back had an angle and maybe could have chased him down 30 yards downfield. But yeah, he, he definitely slid a little earlier. It was. There was a couple moments today with covers and over unders because you had that play, you had Matt Collins about to go. He's setting up the Bills on the two yard line.
- [30:27]
Sal Iacono
Terrible.
- [30:27]
Bill Simmons
Next touchdown covers every tease and adjusted over. If you had 41, 42, whatever. And then what was the other one? Was that the Baltimore Pittsburgh just ending at 42 points. That. That felt like that could have been better, right?
- [30:42]
Sal Iacono
Yeah. The Steelers had like 200 yards in the third quarter and then there was no points.
- [30:46]
Bill Simmons
Oh, and then the Chargers Texans game somehow going over.
- [30:50]
Sal Iacono
Yes.
- [30:50]
Bill Simmons
What were the Odds of that it.
- [30:52]
Sal Iacono
Was like seven, six. I mean, the first. I don't know when you want to talk about that one. One more thing on Herzl. His three winning playoff games. 131 yards against the Packers, 121 yards passing against the Niners, 154 against the Giants. Like, I don't know if we've ever seen anything like this. I know he's not asked to do that much and. And he doesn't. And they win.
- [31:12]
Bill Simmons
Right? Well, and he's not even like, when they're celebrating at the end, he seems in the side. He's such a polarizing guy within the Eagles. Yeah. Like, I know a lot of Eagles fans. None of them have a handle on him at all, but yet they've been winning and they've been successful with them. Right. But you watch and it's just, I don't know. There, there's. When you look at like what we saw from Allen and Mahomes in somewhat similar offensive situations from a weapons standpoint, and they're just so electric and I guess Hertz just doesn't have that level in him. Yeah.
- [31:45]
Sal Iacono
When he shoots off to the side, he'll take a hard hit for a two yard game. Right. Like, I feel like I'm like, hey, cut it up. What are you. What are you doing? I don't know. I'm not good.
- [31:54]
Bill Simmons
Right.
- [31:55]
Sal Iacono
Whatever. He's gone to the super bowl and everything, but just read a book on the sideline every now and then. Jalen, come on.
- [32:02]
Bill Simmons
Read Inner excellence. Borrow a copy from AJ Brown. I was thinking Eagles fans because they've. The team has been successful, but they also love complaining about them. And I don't really blame them, but it's like the friend who's married to the guy that you always feel like they're going to get divorced. And they're never divorced, but they're always. She's always complaining about him. That's kind of the Eagles fans with this team.
- [32:25]
Sal Iacono
Yeah. You think they'd root for the Panthers all these years to a point where you're like, oh, does your team suck? I mean, you keep saying they do.
- [32:31]
Bill Simmons
Didn't you go 13 and 4? Green Bay was kind of the hipster super bowl contender this year.
- [32:40]
Sal Iacono
Yeah.
- [32:40]
Bill Simmons
They were like the alternate pick. I know. We had money on them. We both loved Detroit with the one seed and some super bowl bets. But then Green Bay was kind of the. Well, here's plan B. If the Detroit thing doesn't work out, they ended up going 06 against Philly and Minnesota and Detroit. And this was more alarming to me. I'm throwing out the Brazil game in week one because that game was stupid. They're playing it and I don't understand what that field was. In the other games against those three teams, they fell behind by 21 to Minnesota, by 17 to Minnesota. They fell behind 21 to Detroit. They were down 10 to Detroit. And they were down 10 today to nothing. This was them against any good team. They just immediately spotted 10, 12, 17 points, whatever it was. And there's a couple times where they would kind of come back. What changed today was they lost Watson before the game.
- [33:33]
Sal Iacono
Yeah.
- [33:33]
Bill Simmons
And then they lose two more weapons. So they couldn't even do the comeback thing that Love was pretty good at. I thought Love had a really bad year for what my expectations were. If my expectations were an A minus, I thought he was like a C plus.
- [33:46]
Sal Iacono
I agree. I don't know when I'm trying to think when we love them, when did we fall in love with that team? When were they peaking? Was it six weeks ago? Because you're right.
- [33:54]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, they did.
- [33:55]
Sal Iacono
They're good teams, but they never really put together. I guess they were just beating up the crap.
- [34:01]
Bill Simmons
No, they had. They beat up Miami on Thanksgiving. There was that Thanksgiving and the week after. We should remember this for next year because there was a moment where Green Bay looked like the most dangerous NFC team. Pittsburgh looked like they had the one seed locked up. They had already beaten Baltimore. They had two game lead. They, I think were 10 and three. And it just felt like they were going to be 13, three. They never won again. They were 10 and three and. And that was it. I think they lost their last five and just completely fell apart. And we can talk about that later. But yeah, those were the two teams that I think really fell off. And then conversely, Washington came back, I think. Cause Daniels got healthy was probably the main reason for it. And then Houston died. And then just randomly their defense came back at some point during that Chargers game, which we're going to talk about in a second. But I think those were. Those were kind of the variance teams. I guess the Chiefs might have been the other one because the Chiefs were looking so creaky there. And we were like, this offense, they're just going to be able to score 20 points anymore. And then they gradually figured that out. Everything else has kind of went toward what we thought.
- [35:12]
Sal Iacono
Yeah, it's funny, like after Saturday I'm like, well, have we learned anything about the Chargers and Steelers other than it's the same team we've been looking at for eight years. Right. You can't really trust them. They Steelers knuckleball their way to the playoffs without a good quarterback and then don't show up. I don't know what you want to talk about next, but the Chargers were just brutal too.
- [35:31]
Bill Simmons
But well one one thing on Green Bay because I want to move to Bills and Steelers. I thought their D was good and I thought they did a good job today. I thought Jacobs was good.
- [35:41]
Sal Iacono
Earl Campbell run his whole new jersey coming apart. It's fun.
- [35:45]
Bill Simmons
I like Watson as a player, but I don't think it should be a dramatic difference. I like their tight ends Craft of Musgrave. I don't know what I don't remember. I don't know if Musgrave was hurt or if he played or what happened, but. And then they lost.
- [35:57]
Sal Iacono
Dynamite doing the Tush push. Their version of tush push. Hey, I don't want to make excuses for them because they got beat, probably shouldn't have won. But that kickoff is a huge moment. You can't, you can't turn it over on the road and you can't miss field goals. It's a bad field goals. Denver missed the field goal. They weren't going to win that game.
- [36:12]
Bill Simmons
If you pause. But in a playoff game and the road team is getting the opening kickoff and fumbles on the kickoff, it's almost like the live bet. You almost want to bet everything on the other team. No matter. It just feels like the worst omen possible for the rest of the game. But the bottom line is Jordan Love wasn't good and there's probably some reasons for it that have to do with some of the weapons being gone. But he made some really bad throws. Yeah, and I never felt like last year, especially in the playoffs, it felt like he was elevating. I didn't feel that way at all.
- [36:43]
Sal Iacono
Down the stretch here, you know, I guess the bottom line, the message is don't fall in love with these quarterbacks too much. Jordan Love CJ Stroud, even though he won. Not as good a year. Drake May. You know, I could go on and on. Just don't fall in love with these guys.
- [36:58]
Bill Simmons
Let's, let's take one more break and then we'll do Bills and Steelers. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. In basketball, a blockbuster trade can make or break your playoff run before the deadline. GMs across the league scour for the right data and insights, hoping their moves pay off. February 6th trade deadline this year. By the way, just like in basketball, growing your small business in 2025 all comes down to how well you can build your team. That starts with better insights from LinkedIn with unique skills and interests to the connections you have in common. LinkedIn has the strongest hiring data and insights to help you identify the right professionals so you can make the best hiring decisions. LinkedIn pairs you with the high quality candidates you need to make your business grow and flourish. LinkedIn also lets you go beyond candidates who are actively applying in a given week. 171 million LinkedIn members aren't actively seeking jobs, but they are open to new opportunities. Who isn't? That's a big pool of people you don't want to miss out on. And who knows, one of them could be your next All Star player. So hire smarter in the new year. Find your next Great hire on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com Simmons Once again, LinkedIn.com Simmons to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. This episode is brought to you by Nissan. When you're younger, you're more spontaneous. You say, screw it, I'm just gonna drive cross country with my buddy and we'll stop at a bunch of places and take pictures. Ye get older, you would never do something like that. Keep your spontaneity, my friends. Fuel your inner adventure with the first ever Nissan Rogue Rock Creek. From rocky trails to snowy roads, there are plenty of places to show off this SUV thanks to its intelligent all wheel drive. Its adventure ready design gives it a rugged flare that stands out off road adventure calls to the first ever Nissan Rogue Rock Creek. Visit NissanUSA.com to learn more. Intelligent all wheel drive cannot prevent collisions or provide enhanced traction in all conditions. Always monitor traffic and weather conditions. All right, so I'm lumping Bill's Broncos and Steelers Ravens together because this whole season.
- [39:08]
Sal Iacono
Because everyone else did on a teaser.
- [39:09]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, right. Because we did it on teaser. We call it the anchor tease or the anchor parlay. Whatever you wanted. My favorite was either these eight or eight and a half point teases. You could do with them on on FanDuel and basically put anyone else you want move the line. Eight points, eight and a half points. It's right around even odds and it just, it just seemed like a free way to gain eight points with everybody at one with Tampa. It didn't win with the Chargers. It won with Houston. It won with Washington.
- [39:39]
Sal Iacono
I thought we were going to lose fanduel as a sponsor. I was like is a, is a favorite ever Going to lose again, right? And then when Tampa was winning tonight, like, I don't even know, but they gave it to us.
- [39:49]
Bill Simmons
Look, there's a lot of storylines for the year. Washington and Jaden Daniels, the Lions, the Vikings coming out of nowhere, the Chiefs going for a three peat. Like, there's a lot going on. But this Josh vs. Lamar thing ended up being the most fun thing to argue about. And it never, I never, as I said earlier, I never thought it got ugly because both guys have been great. And what's cool is both guys peeking at the right time. So Today Buffalo rushes 44 for 2:10 and experimented with putting like the sixth offensive lineman out there as a tight end. And just like bully balled their way through the first half. And then Baltimore yesterday, 50 carries for 299. Buffalo had the ball 41 minutes. Baltimore had at 39, 33. So two teams that love having the ball, running it down your throats, playing each other with two magical quarterbacks who also in the playoffs, run the ball more. This is an awesome. This is like one of the best games of the decade. I'm so excited for it.
- [40:50]
Sal Iacono
It's an incredible advantage. Like I said, these two teams have even more than like, Detroit. Like, I'm wowed by Detroit's offense too. But when you have like Josh Allen, like rolling left, it just looks weird. The righty quarterback rolling left and he could slide, slither his way for like seven yards. And then Lamar did that. I think he probably had like five of the first eight carries against the Steelers. I'm like, oh, this game's over too. They're done too. So, yeah, when it, when they go against each other. I was so nervous about that Buffalo game, Simmons. I'm like, we all need this to complete a parlay. I had Ohio State to start it and then anchored with these other two. And the orange pants were a killer on the eyes for Denver. And then they scored right away. I'm like, shit, this is.
- [41:30]
Bill Simmons
Well, we knew Denver was going to make. Make us sweat it out in the first quarter. That was just the law. There was just too much money. And then I was thinking about if you tease them and Buffalo could win by one, but you still don't cover the tease. There are all these different ways. But then Buffalo was like, we got this. I think combining the two of them, I think they're the two best. How do you stop this offenses, yeah, we've had in a while and I'm not ready to talk about them historically. And one of them might score Seven points next week. But just when you're watching the moment in these playoff games now that these quarterbacks don't have to worry about saving their bodies to the playoffs and can actually run and try to do stuff. Daniels was like this too with Washington. I just don't know what the move is. When it's like third and four, it's like you almost have to guess what the play is. Tecmo bowl style, charge Allen, he's still going to stiff arm the first guy, roll out and try to hit somebody sidearmed as he's rolling. And then Lamar is just like, he's like covered in grease. Even if you stop him, he's going by you. So I don't. Yeah, I can't wait to watch.
- [42:40]
Sal Iacono
Romo said. He's like, you could have a spy on these guys, but they're just better than all the spies. They're faster, they're. They have a better, keener sense of the field than all the spies. And it's just tough. And you look at the Steelers, whose defense ended up being just average, right? But I was thinking, wow, if they can't stop Lamar, if this can't be like a 1715 type game that they're used to, forget it. Who the hell's going to do it?
- [43:03]
Bill Simmons
Allen had a play in the first half when he was going around the corner and the guy knew what he was doing and it was, I think it was a third down and the guy basically beat him to the spot. And Allen just went around him, went down the sideline and got eight. Took a guy on, knocked him over too.
- [43:19]
Sal Iacono
Instead of defender, like, put his jersey down over the puddle so that Alan could step over it. It's getting ridiculous.
- [43:25]
Bill Simmons
But, but it's just, it was. Both of those guys just have these, oh, my God, how do you stop this? Now Baltimore might not have Zay Flowers next week. That's not nothing. Buffalo seems like they have their full team and they really feel like they've, they've every. I don't know where they got this offensive line from that, you know, we did a lot of prep before the year. I remember liking certain things about their team and definitely they had an offensive line was one of the strengths. Now it feels like one of the best three offensive lines in the league. Yeah, so.
- [43:55]
Sal Iacono
And James Cook is very good and they don't rely on one guy. It's not Stefan Diggs. Like, oh, you don't get him the ball, he's going to be mad and he's your. Oh, no, you look at the box score, they'll end up having like eight pass catchers and yeah, he said like.
- [44:08]
Bill Simmons
15 touchdown catchers this year.
- [44:09]
Sal Iacono
Yeah.
- [44:10]
Bill Simmons
I guess the difference is Baltimore is built to stop the run. They're really good at it. I think they're number one in the league. Buffalo is not right. So if you're going to say, all right, both of these teams are going to go bowley ball, I think Baltimore has a better chance to do it. Baltimore, yesterday, as they broke Pittsburgh spirit completely and totally. They had that 13 run, 85 yard touchdown drive where they did not pass, which is just. They. Fuck you. Yeah, honestly, that's just. You're just pulling it out at that point and just. And waving it around like a fucking last. It's like 13 runs in a row. Hey, hey, Tabla, have some of this. Like, it's such a fuck you. It really is. Like, not one pass. That's just like. You're like, let's break these guys. They're up and hey. He's telling Harbaugh, like, hey, I was thinking about just calling runs over and over again until we score just to fuck with these guys. He's like, yeah, do it. Go ahead.
- [45:03]
Sal Iacono
Yeah, go for it. It worked. And Tomlin, I don't know, I mean, that's six games in the playoffs. He's gone down by 21 or more. I don't know what you think about this guy. And then I look at the quarterback situation, like, this team doesn't have a chance unless the moon ball to Pickens works. Has to work like four times a game now for them to even have any kind of chance.
- [45:24]
Bill Simmons
Well, we were betting on them over and over again and they were overachieving, looking great. And the Philly game was when it turned, they got their asses kicked by Philly and we all said, ah, stayed at the craps table a game too long on that one. It felt like that. Three days and 11 days. Three games in 11 days kind of broke them. I was thinking about possible excuses for them. The three days and 11 days somehow didn't break Baltimore or KC or Houston. They all like gained strength of it, but I guess Pittsburgh could blame it. Russell Wilson, maybe he's like a house guest that just kind of stays too long. Mm. It's like fun to have in the guest room for two months.
- [46:01]
Sal Iacono
Yeah.
- [46:02]
Bill Simmons
Month three, it's just leaving the fridge open and you're like, oh, man, this guy.
- [46:07]
Sal Iacono
Yeah. Gotta get off the couch.
- [46:09]
Bill Simmons
All right, Tomlin. 18 years. The 18 year itch. I don't know if that's a. Is that a thing?
- [46:14]
Sal Iacono
I think it is. Yeah. Look it up. I have one more I could add too. That.
- [46:18]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, what's your. Yeah.
- [46:19]
Sal Iacono
You called them the best AFC team back, like, December 2nd or so. That might be another one. They were.
- [46:24]
Bill Simmons
They were the one seed.
- [46:26]
Sal Iacono
No, come on.
- [46:26]
Bill Simmons
Was that wrong?
- [46:27]
Sal Iacono
Yeah, you were wrong. Yeah, come on.
- [46:29]
Bill Simmons
Well, in the moment. Was that wrong?
- [46:32]
Sal Iacono
Sure. Yeah.
- [46:33]
Bill Simmons
My whole point was they're the best team right now, December or whatever.
- [46:37]
Sal Iacono
They weren't buff. Better than Buffalo, I believe. All right. Okay. It's fine. I'm not blaming you, but that's fine.
- [46:44]
Bill Simmons
I'm gonna wipe my tears with my. I went 27 and 5 and over under his handkerchief.
- [46:48]
Sal Iacono
Oh, wow. You have that.
- [46:51]
Bill Simmons
So I looked at their last six playoff losses for Pittsburgh.
- [46:56]
Sal Iacono
Yeah.
- [46:57]
Bill Simmons
Gave up 36 points to the Pats, 45 to the Jaguars, 48 to the Browns, 42 to the Chiefs, 31 to Buffalo last week, and then 28 to the Ravens this week, which really could have been more if the Ravens wanted to score more. Tom was supposed to be this, like, awesome defensive coach. We always talk about the ugly 18 to 16 games, and then January just goes away. What happens?
- [47:25]
Sal Iacono
I don't know. But I also know they don't have the luxury of what the Patriots did. Right. Because they're not ever going to be in a position to draft a great quarterback. Right. So if as long as the streak gets. Oh, my God, he did it. He went. They went over eight and a half wins again. You win on that, that's great. And then it's a first round exit in the playoffs. That's not going to change anytime soon. But now you're right, the margins are getting. Are getting thick. Like the season is just too long for them and they're losing by too many points in the playoffs. I don't know what happens to that guy.
- [47:56]
Bill Simmons
I don't know what happened to their defense. I thought the first two months, I thought they had the best defense in the league. D.J. watt got hurt at one point and it never felt like he was totally the same. They had some secondary injuries, but the first two, they were like the flying around defense and that. I call. Who was calling him out? Who was the announcer for that Pittsburgh game? It was not Collinsworth this week. Oh, it's Herb Street.
- [48:20]
Sal Iacono
Herb Street.
- [48:21]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. Was. You know, he's not exactly like Mr. Supercritical. He was like, calling them out in the first half. He's like, it's a playoff game. Where's the fight from this team.
- [48:30]
Sal Iacono
Yep. Make a play.
- [48:31]
Bill Simmons
He kept saying, yeah, something weird happened. I don't know what happened with this team, but whatever we saw the last five weeks was not what we saw in the first three months from them.
- [48:39]
Sal Iacono
Yeah. I don't want to say he's losing the locker room, but this is the closest it looks to that in a long time.
- [48:45]
Bill Simmons
Would you trade Mike McCarthy in a second round pick for him?
- [48:49]
Sal Iacono
I was, I gotta say, I was a little annoyed that the Patriots signed Variable. I'm like, oh, man, Tomlin could be available for them. They just waited like 48 hours.
- [48:58]
Bill Simmons
And yes for the Pats, yes for the Patriots. Yeah, the Steelers, they famously only had three coaches in 130 years or whatever the thing is. Yeah, I don't know. I think they go in for the. After the season meeting with the owner and they're like, what happened this year, Mike? And he's like, I don't know. Our quarter, we paid $3 million for our quarterbacks.
- [49:17]
Sal Iacono
Yeah.
- [49:17]
Bill Simmons
That won many games.
- [49:19]
Sal Iacono
So what's the. What's the quarterback situation? Not that I care too much, but what, what, what possibly going to be.
- [49:25]
Bill Simmons
I know what I would do. I would trade the first pick for McCarthy.
- [49:28]
Sal Iacono
But then you still have Russell Wilson or Justin Fields and McCarthy.
- [49:33]
Bill Simmons
No, no, not, not. I'm saying J.J. mcCarthy.
- [49:36]
Sal Iacono
Oh, okay. All right.
- [49:38]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [49:38]
Sal Iacono
You're talking about my McCarthy.
- [49:39]
Bill Simmons
I was like, what trade at night?
- [49:41]
Sal Iacono
I know it's been a tough week, Bill, but. What?
- [49:43]
Bill Simmons
No, this is. All right. No, I would trade for J.J. mcCarthy.
- [49:47]
Sal Iacono
I gotcha. Interesting.
- [49:49]
Bill Simmons
Now, if Darnold shits the bed again tomorrow, he might not be available anymore.
- [49:53]
Sal Iacono
Right, right, right.
- [49:54]
Bill Simmons
Darnold could go from two weeks ago. We were talking about, why won't they just pay him now? And now two weeks later, if he sucks again and be like, well, at least they have gtg.
- [50:03]
Sal Iacono
There's not a ton of options for them. That's not a bad thought.
- [50:08]
Bill Simmons
The other guy they could trade for Joe Milton. I'll send him some week 18 Buffalo Pats game tape. Joe Milton lighting up the bill. Second string pretending. You could pretend it was the first string. Chargers, Texans, Chargers.
- [50:22]
Sal Iacono
This was beyond Shakies. Right? This was. This was. We don't. Haven't gone in a while, but if we did, like, people will be chucking their mojo potatoes at the screen for the first hour and the. And the manager would threaten to turn the game to rerun Telemundo.
- [50:36]
Bill Simmons
It was AI Shakies. It was. The AI created a Shakies broadcast.
- [50:41]
Sal Iacono
Yeah.
- [50:42]
Bill Simmons
Six Nothing. Charges are up. After they just gave away possible touchdowns on two straight drives, the Texans are an absolute mess. 3rd and 16. They snap the bar over Stroud's head and it seems like it's either going to be a safety, a touchdown, something great. This is right after the intentional grounding. They don't call and he picks it up, rolls out everyone. Charger stops, throws it to midfield and immediately turns into a different quarterback. And from that point on, the Texans never look back.
- [51:10]
Sal Iacono
I. My best bet was the Texans over 19 and a half and you were making fun of me. Like how Texans over three and a half points looking and I deserved it. They were terrible. I still don't think I picked the right side. They won 32 to 12 and I still don't think I got it right.
- [51:24]
Bill Simmons
I don't know if there was a right side. Oh, I think it was two wrong sides.
- [51:28]
Sal Iacono
And Herbert's so weird because he'll throw a 22 yard completion to McConkey. I'm like, wow, that's the best throw over football I've seen in the world.
- [51:35]
Bill Simmons
It's beautiful. What a cannon. Yeah.
- [51:38]
Sal Iacono
Four interceptions later, I think we were going to rank his top 10 bad passes, but they ended up too many. We can't get to it.
- [51:45]
Bill Simmons
So was that for you? Is that a Houston is so resilient, they're the nobody believes in us game, or is that a we might never get there with Justin Herbert game?
- [51:58]
Sal Iacono
Oh, man. I think. Can I say both? I'm not allowed to say both.
- [52:01]
Bill Simmons
You can say both.
- [52:03]
Sal Iacono
I'm going to say Houston. Primarily Houston. And they scared me last year. Remember? That's what sent me on a tailspin. And some others when we bet against them. I thought the Browns were a better team last year. Right. When they went to Houston and Houston throttled them. I was like, you know what the Chargers tend to have? I mean now you got this quarterback going back to Herbert. He's had. What does he have? Like two teams that had three interceptions and he couldn't. The three turnovers and he couldn't beat them.
- [52:29]
Bill Simmons
That's the thing. Everything was going their way and he still couldn't close the game. Five years, zero playoff wins, he's three games over.500. If you include the playoff games, he's one game over.500. I was actually researching quarterbacks who never won a playoff game. And the best one ever is YA Tittle.
- [52:52]
Sal Iacono
He never won one. Huh?
- [52:53]
Bill Simmons
Never won one.
- [52:53]
Sal Iacono
We heard about him. Interesting.
- [52:56]
Bill Simmons
Had some. Was in some big spots. Apparently never won one. And then Andy Dalton was the other one.
- [53:02]
Sal Iacono
Andy Dalton never won a Shakies game.
- [53:04]
Bill Simmons
Never won 0 for 5. But the famous one was Stafford. First 12 years, 03 in the playoffs, never won anything. So maybe this is a Stafford type thing, but it's really unusual for a guy this talented to not win. So you have that and then you have. We used to joke about the Delome. The Delome was four picks with the fumble and then the Delome, the full Delome, I think was five picks with a fumble and one of them had to be a pick six or something like that. So close.
- [53:41]
Sal Iacono
So close.
- [53:42]
Bill Simmons
I went back and I looked quarterbacks in the last 50 years with four picks and a fumble in a playoff game and it's only 15. 15.
- [53:56]
Sal Iacono
That's a lot.
- [53:56]
Bill Simmons
15, 15. Well, I think like people used to throw interceptions way more.
- [54:01]
Sal Iacono
Way more in the old test as much, I guess.
- [54:03]
Bill Simmons
Todd Marinovich had one. Jim Kelly, Richard Todd, Joe Ferguson, Tommy Kramer. The one we watched together the first super bowl we watched together. Tampa, Oakland. Rich Gannon, five picks, three pick sixes. So that was, I guess the full. Gannon is five.
- [54:23]
Sal Iacono
Gannon sounds better anyway, I think. Yeah.
- [54:25]
Bill Simmons
So only three guys have thrown five picks with an interception. Delome, Gannon and Kramer. The last two to do it were Brian Hoyer in 2016 and Carson Palmer the same year.
- [54:39]
Sal Iacono
Right.
- [54:39]
Bill Simmons
I do remember the four with the. He had the pick six.
- [54:44]
Sal Iacono
I'll say this about Herbert because I don't want to bury him completely yet, but you know, I don't know that Harbaugh is as psyched as he was a year ago. Right. I don't, I don't know. We could, we could stop the comparisons to Joe Burrow for sure. Fine. Keep comparing them to two of that. That's good. But I, I don't know if you're, if you're Harbaugh, what's your thought process now? It's like, oh, shit, this is going to take a lot more work than I thought. Right.
- [55:10]
Bill Simmons
I think you move pretty quickly into I gotta get this guy more than one receiver. Um, there's a nerd case for blaming the offensive coordinator and the play calling. But the, you know, you know, the football nerds love Justin Herbert no matter what he does.
- [55:23]
Sal Iacono
Right.
- [55:24]
Bill Simmons
Here's the bigger question to me, quarterbacks you'd rather have for the next eight years than Justin Herbert. So take it 20, 33.
- [55:36]
Sal Iacono
It's really.
- [55:37]
Bill Simmons
I'll list them to you and you tell me when to stop.
- [55:39]
Sal Iacono
Yeah.
- [55:41]
Bill Simmons
Mahomes, Allen, Lamar Burrow. Take all four of those, right?
- [55:45]
Sal Iacono
Yeah.
- [55:46]
Bill Simmons
Would you take Jaden Daniels?
- [55:49]
Sal Iacono
Sure. Right now. But I'm, you know, I'm going to be hesitant with the whole CJ Stroud thing, but yes, right now.
- [55:56]
Bill Simmons
CJ Stroud.
- [55:58]
Sal Iacono
I don't know.
- [56:00]
Bill Simmons
It's a toss up for you.
- [56:02]
Sal Iacono
That's close. That. That's maybe where you got me. Wait a minute. There's not more. That's. That's.
- [56:06]
Bill Simmons
There is more. Oh, Drake May.
- [56:09]
Sal Iacono
Now, come on, come on. Let's see a little something else.
- [56:14]
Bill Simmons
If the Chargers offer Justin Herbert for Drake May straight up, fuck yeah. What are you talking about? Rather have Drake May in a rookie contract.
- [56:23]
Sal Iacono
100 times out of 100, you're not a good. Whoever said you were a good businessman?
- [56:27]
Bill Simmons
Here's the interesting one. Mayfield. Oh, draw that. Mayfield or Justin Herbert. He's been in the league since, what, 2017?
- [56:38]
Sal Iacono
Eight's a lot of years. If you told me four or five, I think it's easier.
- [56:41]
Bill Simmons
So you go four years, you'd say yes?
- [56:43]
Sal Iacono
I think so. Yeah. I love Baker Dak.
- [56:46]
Bill Simmons
You wouldn't say eight years. But if I gave you. If I said four, you would take Dak for four.
- [56:51]
Sal Iacono
I think I would, yes.
- [56:53]
Bill Simmons
Darnold, it's so funny.
- [56:57]
Sal Iacono
Oh, you pause. We all have to wait till tomorrow to say, yeah, I don't want to. I don't want to be foolish. Yeah, I'd say no, probably.
- [57:04]
Bill Simmons
But would you rather have Jared Goff or Justin Herbert? I'd rather have Herbert.
- [57:09]
Sal Iacono
Herbert. Yeah.
- [57:11]
Bill Simmons
Would you rather have Caleb Williams or Justin Herbert?
- [57:14]
Sal Iacono
Herbert. Right now. Why would I? Yeah.
- [57:16]
Bill Simmons
Okay, so that's it. The point of that exercise is as bad as he was in that game, and he's never won a playoff game, he's still one of the top 10 QB assets. No matter what your preference is, you're still talking yourself into because, well, it'll.
- [57:30]
Sal Iacono
Get you 10 wins and maybe you can get lucky in the playoffs. And they were not lucky or good yesterday.
- [57:36]
Bill Simmons
I don't love the adversity piece with him. Like, when it feels like when the wheels start coming off, it doesn't get better for him.
- [57:47]
Sal Iacono
Right.
- [57:48]
Bill Simmons
You know, it feels. When it's going good, he seems great, and then that's a whole other look the other way.
- [57:56]
Sal Iacono
Some of those nos. I would rather take some of Those guys down 10 than Herbert for sure.
- [58:01]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. All right, let's take a break and then we'll do guest alliance. You can save every day by shopping at Whole Foods Market. Seriously. Don't just go for their big sales Walk the store and see the savings for yourself. In the meat department, look for yellow low price signs on Whole Foods Market. No antibiotics ever. Chicken breast and ground beef. Quality, flavorful meats priced just right. Perfect for big dinners with plenty left over for tomorrow's lunches. There are so many ways to save at Whole Foods Market. Now you know. This episode is brought to you by Mint Mobile. One goal I bet a lot of you have going into New Year's to save money. Well, I got a little truck. Switch to Mint Mobile and start saving on your phone bill. They have premium wireless plans starting at just $15 a month. When you buy a three month plan, this deal is almost as good as the time that the Celtics got the Tatum and Brown and all those other picks for KG and Pierce. Yeah, remember that one? We won a title in 2024 because that deal. Ditch your overpriced providers. Try Mint mobile and get three months of service for $15 a month. All plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text on one of the nation's largest 5G networks. To get this new customer offer and your new three month unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.combill that's me. That's mintmobile.combill cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.combill $45 upfront payment required. Equivalent to $15 a month new customers on first three month plan only. Speed slower above 40 GB on unlimited plan. Additional taxes, fees and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details. All right, so we're going to do Guess the Lions round two. We only have three games that have lines. We're going to come back Monday night after Minnesota and the Rams and do a little short maybe 25 minute pod where we talk about the game and then guess the line. Because we like to guess every line. It's not our fault they changed. Made it a three day round one.
- [60:09]
Sal Iacono
I'm coming out. I love doing the pod with you, but yeah, it was a little tidier when everything was done by Sunday night. And also make that game in Vegas. Move everything to Ve. When in doubt, move everything to Vegas. What's Glendale?
- [60:22]
Bill Simmons
Which game? Oh, the, the Rams.
- [60:24]
Sal Iacono
Vikings.
- [60:25]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. Why isn't that in Vegas?
- [60:27]
Sal Iacono
It's an easier drive to Vegas if you're in la. If it's a football game, if it's a bachelor party, if it's an intervention, just move it to Vegas. It's an easy thought.
- [60:38]
Bill Simmons
They love Glendale. They love how like middle of the road between the Two teams. It is. For some reason. It's like, put it in Arizona. It's perfectly neutral. The NFL just feels like it's the.
- [60:49]
Sal Iacono
Most neutral territory possible. I don't get the field. Yeah.
- [60:53]
Bill Simmons
It's not the first time they've went to Glendale. I'm with you. Why not go to Vegas?
- [60:56]
Sal Iacono
Go to Vegas. Yeah.
- [60:59]
Bill Simmons
Okay. I'll do the AFC games first.
- [61:03]
Sal Iacono
All right.
- [61:05]
Bill Simmons
Chiefs, Texans in Kansas City. City. I. The only reason I was scared of Houston in that char. I really like the Chargers in that Chargers game. Houston had a whiff of nobody believes in us. And then you look at them more and you're like, there's a reason nobody believes in you. You guys have sucked. Like. Like the. The. The only things that would make anyone believe in you are the. The models on home underdogs during the playoffs and some of the stuff House did on the show, like, there's gambling nerd metrics that we should believe in you, but from what we've watched from a football standpoint, you guys have sucked.
- [61:45]
Sal Iacono
Yeah.
- [61:46]
Bill Simmons
So I don't feel bad about missing that as a nobody believes in us. But in this game, it's going to kick up.
- [61:50]
Sal Iacono
There's always like a two and a half line that they screw you with. Right. Like, oh, I just have to pick the winner here. The Chargers are better than the Texans, so. But until that was the one.
- [62:00]
Bill Simmons
You know, the thing with that game, though, I really thought the Chargers offensive line was going to be able to handle the edge rushers on Houston. They have good tackles. And yet over and over again, Houston was coming on the edge and they disrupted them.
- [62:14]
Sal Iacono
Yeah, right, right, right.
- [62:15]
Bill Simmons
I just. Just pegged it wrong. Anyway. Chiefs, Texans. I have Chiefs by nine.
- [62:21]
Sal Iacono
All right, don't get mad, but I hit this exactly seven and a half.
- [62:26]
Bill Simmons
Wow.
- [62:27]
Sal Iacono
That's what I said.
- [62:29]
Bill Simmons
So I jacked it up because I thought they would not want us to tease the Chiefs. And I thought they'd put it at nine so that even if you teased them, you still had Chiefs minus three. Chiefs, seven and a half. They're basically opening the floodgates for a tease.
- [62:45]
Sal Iacono
They've done a weird, disrespectful thing for the Chiefs and their lines, you know, as much as they can for a 15 win team. And they've kind of done it all season long. The big thing I'm hearing is it seems like it's a disadvantage and fanduel is also treating as a disadvantage that they've been off for two weeks. Like, oh, the Chiefs are off two weeks. And they didn't play anyone week 18. So that's really two weeks. Like yeah, this, they do this every year and they win the super bowl like every other year. So why.
- [63:12]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, they have a lot of infrastructure. Yeah.
- [63:14]
Sal Iacono
Why are we going crazy about it?
- [63:15]
Bill Simmons
I could understand it after week 12, week 13 range when we were really worried about the Chiefs and it really felt like what were they, 12 and one. It felt like they could have been easily eight and five or seven and six with five different plays. I like the way they ended the season up until when they didn't have to play anymore. I thought, I thought they were more exclusive explosive. I thought Pacheco was. Once he came back that run the ball better. I just liked how they looked more.
- [63:39]
Sal Iacono
And I think they're delighted in this matchup. Honestly, I don't think they want. You know, they wouldn't have been afraid of Harbaugh, but the Chargers played him well twice. I think they had a two point loss and a seven point loss and Harbaugh going to Kansas. You know, I think Andy Reid gets a little freaked out there, but this, they'll slap this team around.
- [63:55]
Bill Simmons
I think the only case would be the Houston pass rush again. Casey's tackles aren't great. Some sort of dumb Casey first half where they have three points, you know, 20 minutes into the game and then mixing, pounding the ball down their throat. I don't know.
- [64:17]
Sal Iacono
Listen, I'm.
- [64:18]
Bill Simmons
I'm teasing the Chiefs. I'm just telling you and I, I.
- [64:20]
Sal Iacono
Know it's been a rough week. You and I and your financial planner, we're going to sit down Tuesday, Wednesday. Ish. And we're going to figure out how much you want to put on the Chiefs Ohio State moneyline parlay. And so you'll.
- [64:32]
Bill Simmons
Oh, you're still in on Ohio State.
- [64:33]
Sal Iacono
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's easy. So let's just do it. Not have to worry about any of that.
- [64:37]
Bill Simmons
You're not afraid of Notre Dame?
- [64:39]
Sal Iacono
No, no, no. It's mismatch. It's a mismatch up front. They can get bullied.
- [64:45]
Bill Simmons
Bills, Ravens is our second game. I had this all week, battling back and forth between minus two and a half, minus three. And I think I'm wrong. But I have the Bills in Buffalo favored by three against the Baltimore Ravens.
- [65:03]
Sal Iacono
It's exactly what I thought and I stand by it. Our friends at FanDuel have the bills only favored by one and a half.
- [65:12]
Bill Simmons
Ooh, the tic tac zone.
- [65:14]
Sal Iacono
Yeah.
- [65:15]
Bill Simmons
Did we see a little fliparoo?
- [65:17]
Sal Iacono
Oh, you think The Ravens will get the nod.
- [65:20]
Bill Simmons
I'm just. Every time we're in the 1.5 tic tac zone, sometimes by Wednesday, all of a sudden it's like, wait a second. Baltimore's favorite in Buffalo.
- [65:29]
Sal Iacono
Now, can we talk about what this means? Like, why, how they may have arrived at this? Because it doesn't really make sense to me.
- [65:38]
Bill Simmons
Maybe they arrived the same way I kind of arrived mentally. I like the Ravens.
- [65:42]
Sal Iacono
You do?
- [65:43]
Bill Simmons
I do. I forgot to do this before. I had this Derek Henry thing I was going to do with you.
- [65:51]
Sal Iacono
Go ahead, let's do it. Which quarterback would you want over Derek Henry? Oh, no.
- [65:56]
Bill Simmons
I was looking up. I was trying to think of how many guys were awesome from the first moment they played in high school all the way through.
- [66:05]
Sal Iacono
Huh?
- [66:06]
Bill Simmons
And they're still awesome now. Like, I think LeBron's been like that, right? LeBron was awesome as a ninth grader all the way through. He's been awesome for 26 years. Henry, as a freshman in high school at Yulee in 2009, rushed for 2,465 yards and 7.9 yards of carry. He was like 14 years old. He finished his career. He ran for 12,124 yards in high school, 8.7 yards per carry and 153 touchdowns. Right? So he's. I don't know if he's the greatest high school running back ever, but if that. Whenever anybody writes that article, he has to be one of the first people mentioned. It's like Emmett Smith. And you go through, you have to have Henry in the first couple.
- [66:48]
Sal Iacono
Well, week nine against Norwich his junior year. He says he had the flu, but he only went for like 130.
- [66:54]
Bill Simmons
So then he goes to Alabama. They're stacked at running back. He plays anyway, second year better, and then third year, 2,219 yards, 5.6 a carry, turns pro, and he's rushed for 11,423 yards in nine years. He's had three years where he ran for over five yards of carry, and then another year, he was 4, 9 this last year. He ran for 5.9a carry in 1921. It's the second best year of his career. There's nobody like him. He's a complete 101. We've never seen a running back who does the things that he does. I can't compare him to anybody we've ever like. There's pieces of like Christian Okoye, Eric Dickerson. I don't know who he is. And he's exactly as good as he was when he came in the league. And I don't know how long it continues, but it's weird that we had that one playoffs when we talked about him when the titans were like 9 and 8 or 9 and 7 and then they made it all the way to the AFC title game and it was like, oh, my God, is Derek Henry more valuable than any quarterback? And that was the only time he had a moment in the sun. And now you watch him, especially in that playoff game, and it's like, are we just completely underrating Baltimore? And is this Lamar Henry thing, are we going to look back at this and think, this was one of the most amazing combos we've had in the league this century? Anyway, that's why I would like the Ravens.
- [68:16]
Sal Iacono
Well, I think you could be right about all that stuff. I mean, it's amazing a guy does so well in high school that he's drafted in college and he does so well in college.
- [68:24]
Bill Simmons
The pros, like, wow, but how are you this great as a running back for 15 straight years, but his yards.
- [68:31]
Sal Iacono
Per carry went down a couple of those years.
- [68:32]
Bill Simmons
But he's unstoppable.
- [68:33]
Sal Iacono
I get it.
- [68:34]
Bill Simmons
He's still on. He was unstoppable as a freshman high school 15 years later, nobody could stop him.
- [68:39]
Sal Iacono
Like, it's amazing.
- [68:39]
Bill Simmons
Listen, Walker slowed down.
- [68:42]
Sal Iacono
FanDuel had Saturday highest rushing yards on Saturday. I was like, it's Derrick Henry. Why is it -125? JJ's arguing with me. I was like, just stop. Just bet Derrick Henry to have the most yards on Saturday. He's going to have the most yards for the weekend.
- [68:56]
Bill Simmons
What do you end up with? 186.
- [68:58]
Sal Iacono
186 or something. So, yeah, he's great. They're great. The only thing is, I don't know, like, they have to. Sometimes they, they don't figure out how to manage the load between Lamar and Henry.
- [69:10]
Bill Simmons
Sometimes he's 4, 9 per carry for his career.
- [69:14]
Sal Iacono
Yeah.
- [69:15]
Bill Simmons
And then 5, 0 in the postseason. Usually. We always talk about running backs. It's like a shelf life of four years, five years, maybe six years. This guy's going to, you know, he's floating around in free agency and people are like, ah, he might be too old. And it turned out he was just on a team that didn't have quarterbacks for four years.
- [69:32]
Sal Iacono
Right.
- [69:33]
Bill Simmons
I think this guy's one of the all time freaks. Like, I think Moss was a freak. I think Lawrence Taylor was a freak. We talk about like the freak athletes that we've watched since we've been alive and love football and Henry. It's. It's. It's a short list but he's definitely on it. I thought we're just. He's a one on one to me.
- [69:50]
Sal Iacono
I'm not going to argue. I will have to see his like stats and turkey bowl when the parents played and when he was like 9 years old and stuff.
- [69:57]
Bill Simmons
But I'll trust Cedar year 13 games, 4261 yards.
- [70:02]
Sal Iacono
Wow.
- [70:03]
Bill Simmons
He ran for 4000.
- [70:05]
Sal Iacono
I know it's stupid. It's really dumb. Yeah, I. He's got a lot of wear and tear on him at the. Doesn't make any sense.
- [70:11]
Bill Simmons
Or he doesn't or he has nowhere in terror because he's a freak.
- [70:14]
Sal Iacono
Maybe it keeps going, but it does.
- [70:16]
Bill Simmons
Like you see there's like the videos of Lamar from high school where he has like a couple just freaky, you know he has that one that run into the end zone where he just stops and the guy goes by him and he just pauses and then he goes in and it's just like some of these dudes, they just had it when they were 14. Then there's the late bloomer types. Even Cooper Dejan. Have you seen the basketball footage of him like doing two hand slams? I don't know.
- [70:42]
Sal Iacono
These guys are good athletes.
- [70:43]
Bill Simmons
These guys are good athletes.
- [70:44]
Sal Iacono
I'm glad you're learning that. I still think one and a half's light. Sorry.
- [70:49]
Bill Simmons
No, I just think. I think Henry is one of the all time freaks. Since we've been watching football he's put him at the top, top, top freak level of all these dudes. And I wonder is he the key guy in round two? Not the reason I brought that up. Is he the key guy in round two, not Lamar? Because the Bills, they're medium sized, they're not big. I do feel like you can battering ran them and he just softens them up and then Lamar can do his stuff on the side.
- [71:17]
Sal Iacono
Well why did you make this line 3 if you like Baltimore so much?
- [71:20]
Bill Simmons
I was just trying to guess what Vegas would have it Cause I think Vegas really likes the Bills.
- [71:25]
Sal Iacono
Yeah, I don't know where does the line end up you think you're going Ravens. As soon as we hang this zoom up you're putting the Ravens on a teaser with somebody.
- [71:34]
Bill Simmons
To me I want to bet them straight up because there's still the Lamar playoff stuff. Still makes me a whiff nervous so I wouldn't want to tie it with another bet. I'd rather Tease the Chiefs with one of the NFC teams.
- [71:47]
Sal Iacono
Mack Hollins had 13 touchdown receptions in high school as a played varsity in ninth grade.
- [71:54]
Bill Simmons
4,241 yards.
- [71:57]
Sal Iacono
That's preposterous. I know. It's crazy.
- [71:59]
Bill Simmons
I just. And he never get. I guess he got hurt for like eight games one year in Tennessee, but there's just no wear and tear at all. It's like he's like a car that has 200,000 miles on it that can still go 200 miles an hour.
- [72:12]
Sal Iacono
If he went to our son's high school, we'd be talking about him so much, our kids would hate us. Right? Like, shut up, dad. Pay attention to me. It's like, yeah, but you got a running back in your school who ran for 4,300 yards.
- [72:21]
Bill Simmons
I was saying. I was on a text thread about this this weekend. I was saying it's like the kid in the Little League World Series game, the Cody Webster kid who's just bigger than everybody else. Right? And then that kid grows up and he's. That's the highlight of his life. Right. Derek Henry was probably that kid at age eight. And he's still that guy now. And he's 30. He's been that guy for over two decades. He still looks like. You watch and you go, how's anyone tackling this? All right. Third game, Detroit home for Washington.
- [72:51]
Sal Iacono
Yep.
- [72:53]
Bill Simmons
You know where this is going? It's going right in the Vegas zone for me. Detroit by five and a half.
- [73:00]
Sal Iacono
Ooh, wow. I said seven and a half and it's eight and a half. Oh, wow.
- [73:11]
Bill Simmons
Wow. You're going to beat me this week.
- [73:12]
Sal Iacono
Wait a minute. Do we even have to do guest alliance tomorrow? Yeah, we do.
- [73:15]
Bill Simmons
We still have to do for posterity. You don't have to start your guys. You can be like. When the Chiefs Rest Week 18.
- [73:22]
Sal Iacono
Yeah.
- [73:23]
Bill Simmons
You can look up some Derek Henry high school footage. You can go over that somewhere. Some of his games at ULI.
- [73:31]
Sal Iacono
We'll talk about our Sacramento bet. This is 8net. This is. I was trying to figure out why it's even higher than seven half. What? I guess. But. So Tampa was what, three? And Detroit's eight and a half.
- [73:45]
Bill Simmons
I think that's ridiculous. I don't understand that at all. With Detroit's defense because they look good on against Minnesota because Darnold sucked and sailed like 10 passes. Now we think Detroit's defense is back. They gave up 40 plus points like three weeks before that.
- [74:03]
Sal Iacono
The over under is by high, by far the highest so far. And at 55 and a half. So I guess they're thinking it could get out of hand with one score, even if it's close late.
- [74:15]
Bill Simmons
Well, this lined up really nicely for the Lions.
- [74:20]
Sal Iacono
Yeah.
- [74:21]
Bill Simmons
They get the one seed. They get a week off. They get Washington around 2. That just pulled out yet another crazy win, but still has a rookie quarterback. Like the leap of just thinking mentally of Washington. I know they want 12 games. They're a good team, but just thinking about them in the NFC title game. Mm, that seems like a lot.
- [74:45]
Sal Iacono
Give me.
- [74:45]
Bill Simmons
If you're.
- [74:45]
Sal Iacono
If you're Dan Campbell, and let's say you get through this game, out of the three possible opponents, Rams, Vikings, Eagles, who do you want?
- [74:58]
Bill Simmons
I think I'd be the most afraid of the Vikings, as crazy as that sounds.
- [75:01]
Sal Iacono
Really.
- [75:01]
Bill Simmons
And they might lose tomorrow.
- [75:03]
Sal Iacono
Familiarity. Yeah.
- [75:04]
Bill Simmons
Don't you think? Because I do think there's a world where those were the two best teams, not just in the nfc, but the whole league, potentially withstanding the whole Chiefs playoff pedigree and all that stuff. But.
- [75:15]
Sal Iacono
But what if A.J. brown puts down the book and maybe.
- [75:19]
Bill Simmons
He'Ll finish Inner Excellence by then?
- [75:21]
Sal Iacono
He's got a long time. He's got three, two weeks.
- [75:25]
Bill Simmons
I. With the way Hertz looks, I wouldn't be as scared of the Eagles as I would have been four weeks ago.
- [75:33]
Sal Iacono
Yeah.
- [75:34]
Bill Simmons
I mean, he had 39 yards at halftime.
- [75:37]
Sal Iacono
I know. I just read you that it's his numbers and that he's winning these playoff games. It's ridiculous. But it does bug me that third and three, they got you over a barrel every single time.
- [75:49]
Bill Simmons
All right, so we're. We're going to. We'll save the rest of it for tomorrow when we react off. All right, we'll just get that. Up 2.
- [75:57]
Sal Iacono
I'm up 3 to 1. I won the week. I'm up 3 to 1. We'll do it for fun.
- [76:01]
Bill Simmons
What's. What's the. Are we tied down for the season?
- [76:05]
Sal Iacono
We were tied heading into the week.
- [76:07]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [76:07]
Sal Iacono
So I'm up by one.
- [76:09]
Bill Simmons
This is great. Jesus. Could be your first title. This could give hope to Buffalo fans, Minnesota fans, Washington Commanders fans. Hold on, Lions fans.
- [76:18]
Sal Iacono
Let me read you my guess. The Lions record in middle school. I won six times.
- [76:26]
Bill Simmons
How many great high school to their 30s athletes can you think of who were great the entire time all the way through? Because I guess, like, in basketball, it's.
- [76:37]
Sal Iacono
Basketball happens more.
- [76:38]
Bill Simmons
Basketball happens way more. Easy to figure out. Football happens with the quarterbacks, but the running backs and the receivers, I would argue it doesn't really. Emmett was like that. Emmett was awesome.
- [76:49]
Sal Iacono
Emmett was great.
- [76:50]
Bill Simmons
He was awesome. He was a high school college pro guy.
- [76:53]
Sal Iacono
Yeah.
- [76:53]
Bill Simmons
But other than that, I don't know. Saruti, are there other guys that I'm not thinking of? How many guys were awesome high school college pros? Surudi's got to turn his zoom on. Oh yeah, there he is.
- [77:12]
Sal Iacono
I mean Arch Manning, Trevor Lawrence were big, but Arch Manning didn't play. Yeah.
- [77:17]
Bill Simmons
Oh, Peyton's a good one. Was Peyton Awesome? Like 9th grade. On. He couldn't get over the hump though in college.
- [77:24]
Sal Iacono
Right.
- [77:24]
Bill Simmons
Wasn't that kind of the knock on him? Right. He's still putting up stats.
- [77:28]
Sal Iacono
Yeah, no, he was great. He just couldn't beat Florida.
- [77:30]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, I guess Randy Moss. But then Randy Moss had to transfer when he was in college and the college went a little sideways for a second.
- [77:40]
Sal Iacono
Oh, Adrian Peterson, right.
- [77:43]
Bill Simmons
That's a good one.
- [77:44]
Sal Iacono
Obviously you slowed down in the last couple of years, but yeah, a ridiculous recruiting class.
- [77:50]
Bill Simmons
So Rudy, when. When Henry got. When he went fell to the second round after the Alabama season, did that seem like the right range for you or did you think everybody was a big. No, you remember people called that like a terrible pick because, you know, he's like big. Was he fast enough? There were people that really did. He was too slow. I don't know. Yeah, which is weird because I think he did. I don't think his 40 time was terrible, but yeah, like there were people that crushed that pick as a second round pick and I don't know. It's always weird though with the Alabama running backs because sometimes, you know, like they're just. They play with the best offensive line.
- [78:22]
Sal Iacono
And yada yada, yada. And that was a knock. Yeah, right. Yeah, the whole thing.
- [78:27]
Bill Simmons
I'm sure the listeners will come up.
- [78:28]
Sal Iacono
With a couple of. Yeah, I know they're going to kill us for missing an obvious one.
- [78:32]
Bill Simmons
Well, you know, I was looking at one of those lists where they had the 50 best. Tony Dorsett was apparently one of the great high school running backs of all time. And then he was really good at.
- [78:40]
Sal Iacono
Pittsburgh too, in Pennsylvania.
- [78:41]
Bill Simmons
So he might be another one. How long was this? His Cowboys run was probably eight or nine years.
- [78:45]
Sal Iacono
Pretty great. Yeah. Yeah, right in there.
- [78:48]
Bill Simmons
All right, thanks, Sarita. Who do you like in the title game while you're here? Ohio State. Oh, wow. What's the line in the Ohio State?
- [78:57]
Sal Iacono
It's like, is it six now? What is it?
- [79:00]
Bill Simmons
Oh, I'm sorry. Eight and a half.
- [79:02]
Sal Iacono
No, it's eight And a half.
- [79:03]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. So tease them with the Chiefs.
- [79:05]
Sal Iacono
You could tease it. Like I said, we're going to sit down with your financial planner.
- [79:08]
Bill Simmons
Okay. All right.
- [79:09]
Sal Iacono
Can't be taken.
- [79:10]
Bill Simmons
Thanks to Rudy. All right, wanna. Should we skip Parent Corner this week and talk California?
- [79:16]
Sal Iacono
We could.
- [79:17]
Bill Simmons
Yes. We should mention that as we're recording this on a Sunday night, and we got notice a couple hours ago that there's a severe wind thing coming on Tuesday. So it's hard to say where we're going next. But this was already the worst week since I've been in la. By far, not even close. One of the biggest natural disasters in American history, and I can't wrap my head around it. All of these days later and you're over in the Manhattan beach area. I don't know how much you dealt with some of the areas that were affected. When we're talking Palisades and Malibu and Eaton Altadena were the Big four. We knew a lot of people from friends of friends, people my kids went to school with, who lived in different parts. And I don't even know how to describe this to people who don't live in California. The wide swath of devastation, the Palisades just basically being gone. Whole parts of Malibu just being gone. Eating Altadena, it's one of those things when you see it, when you watch it on TV and it's happening in other areas and it's like, man, that seems awful, but you don't really fully understand it until you live there. And I know LA will come back. I know everybody bounces back eventually. But, man, it's really hard to even understand how the rebuilding is going to happen and how long it's going to take. And you just see those wide overhead shots of these different areas and it's just like, it's. It's just so awful. And it's just been an awful week and. And it just feels like it's not going to get better.
- [81:02]
Sal Iacono
Yeah. And that's also part of it. And I'm sorry, I know this goes on in, like, Maui and other places, and we should be thinking about that. But. Yeah, when it's in your backyard and, like, people are checking in with me, I'm like, I don't know. I'm good for now. I'm all right for now. I have no idea. And it depends on the wind. And somehow, did you know they could predict wind for three days? I didn't even know they could do that. But so we know, like, there's bad shit ahead and we Know a lot of people who got devastated and it's really rough. It really, I don't want to bum everyone out, but it really is like, oh my God, you feel like you have so much control over your life and then, and then you don't. You really don't with like something stupid like this. And we don't know how it started and we don't know how it's going to end and, and that's. We need football as a distraction and it's hardly ranks as important, but I mean, for God's sakes, I wish we could like talk about this as if it's going on in the past, but it's not.
- [81:56]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, it doesn't seem like it's over yet. We'll see. I mean we've been here, I've been here since 02 and you've been here a few years before that. And there's been wind events and it's been windy and I remember over and over again, especially like even taking my daughter to soccer tournaments and it would be like 35 degree, 35 mile an hour winds in Lancaster and stuff like that. For some reason these winds seemed a little, they were pointing them out a couple days before, like, hey, this is pretty scary this time around. And then everything that happened was so much worse than you ever, ever could imagine. Even heading through Tuesday, it was starting the Palisades. And then all of a sudden by mid early Tuesday night here, you really felt like this could go in a direction you just never could have in your worst nightmare imagined. But first responders, fire department, police department, the helicopter pilots dropping the water, all the TV people who were out there braving the elements. One of the things that was really inspiring was how many people were trying to get out there, trying to tell us what was going on. And for a lot of people watching tv, not knowing if it was their neighborhood, their house, and it was, you're just relying on all these people, these Twitter accounts, like that LA Scanner account, but. And it turned out to be just a 10 out of 10, the worst case scenario that we could have had.
- [83:24]
Sal Iacono
Yeah, I mean, yeah, like you said, even the reporters and these firestorms like that are going on like you know, 100ft behind them. It's like, what is going on? And like I said, I wish that the worst is behind us. But then we have a mutual friend that's a doctor at UCLA and he's like, yeah, man, they have to evacuate this hospital if the, if the storm come, if the fires come within two and A half miles of this place, and it's. Right now it's four. I was like, are you kidding me? What the hell? What does that look like, evacuating a whole giant hospital? Like, that's. That's. My God. That's going to be something that's just even more outrageous and right up there with anything else. So, yeah, just, you know, plenty of gofundmes out there, plenty of places to look to help. Plenty of fucking scammers, too, that are assholes trying to take advantage of this. But just be careful and be diligent and, you know.
- [84:14]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, I'm gonna. I wanted to really kind of dive into it and see which ones I trusted, and maybe on the next podcast could talk about some of the. Some of the possibilities. You know, some of the stuff's gonna get rebuilt, and I'm sure it's gonna take a while. There's some other stuff that I don't know how they. How. How stuff comes back. Houses that were, you know, from 1940, 1950, that you would never build the same way, and some pieces of California that just had real special character. Certainly one of the reasons I wanted to live here, being near the ocean and just some of the coolest parts of the country I'd ever seen, and then on top of it, just, I think, losing your house and having no power over that and just knowing all the stuff that you kept and everything's gone. There's very few worse feelings than that. So it's just so much pain and so much heartbreak out here. We try to do podcasts, try to talk football, and try to keep people's minds off it for an hour, but it's really, really horrible, and I really hope we've hit the end of it and that it's not going to get worse.
- [85:20]
Sal Iacono
That'd be nice, right? That'd be nice. After all.
- [85:23]
Bill Simmons
Too much to ask.
- [85:24]
Sal Iacono
Parlay and teaser talk. Let's just get. Let's get everyone safe.
- [85:30]
Bill Simmons
Well, that's it. Best of luck to everybody out there. We're really sorry about everything that happened on one of the later podcasts that we do. Hopefully this week we'll try to have some. Maybe even tomorrow, when we come back tomorrow for that last game, maybe we could try to figure out a couple good things that we actually trust and a couple ways to get the word out to try to help people.
- [85:50]
Sal Iacono
I like that. I mean, it was just. It's crazy. Your week started with one of the Bella twins twerking four feet from you. I mean, I think I know that.
- [85:57]
Bill Simmons
Was a Monday night.
- [85:58]
Sal Iacono
It feels like it was 165,000 to make parent Corner and too many terrible things happen since.
- [86:06]
Bill Simmons
So anyway, well, we're really feeling for everybody out there and it's, it's just really heartbreaking. I really come to love LA too. And you know, it's just, it's just hard to wrap your head around, especially places that you've been to a million times and now you think, well, wait a second, what's, what's that going to look like now? But hopefully we can all get through this and figure it out. So I will see you tomorrow night.
- [86:33]
Sal Iacono
Let's do it tomorrow. Good job by you Billy.
- [86:35]
Bill Simmons
Good job by you. Thanks to Kyle and Ceruti and Gahao for producing. You can watch this video on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel as well and we will see you on Monday night. Please everybody stay Safe. Must be 21 plus and President select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 +&President D.C. gambling problem call 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com, call 1-887-897777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. In basketball, a blockbuster trade can make or break your playoff run. Before the deadline, GMs across the league scour for the right data and insights, hoping their moves pay off. February 6th trade deadline this year by the way, just like in basketball, growing your small business in 2025 all comes down to how well you can build your team. That starts with better insights from LinkedIn with unique skills and interests to the connections you have in common. LinkedIn has the strongest hiring data and insights to help you identify the right professionals so you can make the best hiring decisions. LinkedIn pairs you with the high quality candidates you need to make your business grow and flourish. LinkedIn also lets you go beyond candidates who are actively applying in a given week. 171 million LinkedIn members aren't actively seeking jobs, but they are open to new opportunities. Who isn't? That's a big pool of people you don't want to miss out on. And who knows, one of them could be your next All Star player. So hire smarter in the new year, find your next Great hire on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com Simmons Once again, LinkedIn.com Simmons to post your job for free, terms and conditions apply.