← The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Bill Simmons Podcast
SGA’s Game 2 Masterpiece, Summer NBA Chaos Watch, McDavid’s Cup Quest, and ‘Tires’ With Ryen Russillo
01:56:30
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- [00:00]
Bill Simmons
This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. Ever finish a movie and the next thing you know you're totally obsessed. Like I'm talking about ordering a book about 70s film lighting or buying the soundtrack on vinyl. Kind of obsessed. Whatever it is, prime helps you get more out of whatever passions you're into or getting into. Head to Amazon.com prime and follow your obsession wherever it goes. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network where we have a new rewatchables coming for you. On Monday night, we did Working Girl as me and Amanda DOD and Joanna Robinson. This is a beloved movie. There was a lot of pressure, but I thought we pulled off a really good podcast and you can watch it on The Ringer Moves YouTube channel or as a video podcast on Spotify. This was a pretty good sports weekend. We didn't just have game two of the NBA Finals that I'm about to talk about with Ryan Rossillo in one second, but we had an awesome French Open. I don't know whether it was because they switched channels with the French Open or what happened, but the woman's the, the French lady making the semis was great. Coco wins in the finals. And then today, five setter, five and a half hours, Alcaraz comes back, beats center. Really great drama with that. We had UFC last night. We had money in the bank, wwe. That happened Red Sox, Yankees. Just when it looked like the Red Sox season was over, they sucked me back in. And then we had the NBA Finals as well. So we're hitting, we're hitting, hitting June here, NBA Finals. We'll see if this can end up being an awesome series. Game one was awesome. Game two wasn't as awesome, but there were a lot of lessons. We're going to talk about that as well as a bunch of NBA predictions for what's going to happen the rest of June because it's starting to get a little action packed here. But it's all next. We're going to take a break. We're going to bring in Pearl Jam and then Ryan Rosillo Sunday night. Next. This episode is presented by State Farm. It's no secret that great teams need great teammates. I've been saying this for years. And when it comes to insurance, State Farm is there to help you find the right coverage for your home car and more. Whether you need an in person or digital assist, they're ready. When life hits you with a full court press, get a game plan that helps fit your life. Talk to State Farm today. State Farm with the Assist coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability and eligibility vary by state. All right, Sunday night, just watched game two, Indiana okc. I'm sorry, Rossillo. I thought that might actually be a good game. I was all excited to just say, like, holy shit, we're on pace for an amazing series. And all of a sudden, halfway through the second quarter, that game slipped away and that was it. Indiana got the game they wanted. One and one heading back to Indiana for game three. But what's your big takeaway from that one.
- [03:19]
Ryan Rosillo
Masterful game from sga? I mean, this was the full display of his ability, of his understanding, his smarts, his efficiency. I mean, the stuff that he was doing, he was just in control of the whole thing. And it was. It was just so, like, functional, you know, that's the difference. Like, I enjoy the visual of Ant more than I do sga. I've never for a second thought Ant was a better player than sga, but, like, this is the part where it's just so much of the focus on what he's doing, dictating things, getting empty on the left side going, if you're going to double me, I'm going to do this to you. If you do this, I'm going to do this. And it was like every single move he made was. Was just the right one. He was awesome.
- [03:58]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, SJ was the takeaway. I actually felt like they didn't talk about him enough on the broadcast because to me, no, just that was. I. I thought they could have done five, six more minutes on. This guy's just dominating the Pacers. They seem fixated on Halliburton not taking control offensively. I thought OKC won this game offensively. You know, they were. They controlled the rebounding in this game. Last game they didn't. SJ was the best player in the court by far. They got a really good dork game. They got a really good Caruso game. Wiggins and then some Wiggins threes. And that's just like, that's. OKC has had 30 games that looked like that during the course of the season. SJ is awesome. Three role guys step up, they get a couple defensive patches. And I, I gotta say, I didn't mind how Halliburton played. I know, I know. Sometimes it looks a little dicey when you look at the box score at halftime and you're like, ah, what? Why isn't he asserting himself? But I think he's one of those guys that just makes the right play a lot. And the way OKC was Defending him, the people that are throwing at him. You know, he's just not going to dribble into two guys. He's not going to try to take 24 footers with. With two hands in his face. You know, in the second quarter of a game, he feels it out. He almost, almost attacks the game like a hockey player. And you know, he ramped it up in the fourth quarter. But I. I certainly didn't think he was the reason they lost, did you? It was. I wouldn't put him in the top five.
- [05:23]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, I think he's in the top five.
- [05:24]
Bill Simmons
You put him top five. I would not.
- [05:26]
Ryan Rosillo
I mean, five. You can come up with five reasons why the Pacers lost this before.
- [05:29]
Bill Simmons
Halliburton couldn't stop. Yeah, couldn't stop. SGA role players. Couldn't. Couldn't shoot. Second quarter, what was it, 33, 27. And all of a sudden OKC blew the game open. When he was on the bench, I thought they didn't control the boards in the same way and I really thought they were going to get something from Matheran in this game. And they didn't again. And the Matt. What did Mather? McConnell had 11, Matheran 14. But most. Most of those were when the game was pretty much done. But. And then Toppin just had three. Toppin was one for eight. So they couldn't get that. The bench guys to really get going in the same way. I don't know OKC was going to win this game. It was an easy bet. That was why the line was 11 and a half heading in there. But I don't know you. So you thought, you thought there was some blame on Halburn.
- [06:20]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I mean, I think it's 180 and he has two baskets. So I mean, the way that we've started to talk about Halliburton, the expectations that you're not going to be invisible offensively. And I think you're right that, you know, it's in the past we talk about like, hey, where's this guy? And then everything just kind of goes crazy in the playoffs with. With how much we adjust some of the ceilings on the players and we know that he is. He is fully capable of just not having a great scoring game. But to your point, being very in control of everything that's happening and making the right decisions, everything. But he just wasn't aggressive at all. Like, when he finally had that second make, the game basically felt like it was over anyway. And it was. That might have been the third make, but it was just a Simple, like, handoff. And then he runs his guy into the handoff for the screen and just gets a little bit of momentum going towards the hoop and hits this floater. You're like, all right, you know, where's. How hard is it to do that a few more times? Earlier on, I do think with OKC's defense, you know, I'm crediting the Pacers and Halliburton and Carlisle for using him off the ball instead of just doing this straight, hey, we're going to do this thing over and over and over again right at you. And it then becomes easy to defend, especially against this team, meaning the Thunder, who they've been defensively. But I don't know. I just would have liked to see him be a bit more aggressive. I wouldn't spend an hour trashing the guy because that would. That would feel unfair, what he's done. But he just. Yeah, I don't. I mean, the easiest thing in the world is just to be like, oh, you need to do more. You need to. Well, no shit. No shit. He needs to do more. But I. I'm not, like, mad at him today.
- [07:50]
Bill Simmons
Right? I thought game five of the New York series, I thought he was. I thought that was a really strange game by him. I didn't feel like this game was that strange. Dort was. I voted for Dort for Defensive Player of the Year. I thought Dort threw everything he had at him. It was interesting when they interviewed Jalen Williams at the end of the third quarter, and they're like, what are you doing to slow down Halbert? And he's like, lou Dort, Lou Do. He's going full tilt, and then when he comes out, there's Caruso. And their entire game plan was like, we gotta make other people beat us. We can't let him get going. And also when they were making shots, they couldn't run. So I don't know. I'm sure he'll look at stuff and maybe. Maybe he'll try to get going in some ways. But I thought he took some. He took a couple good threes that I thought were going in. They didn't. And the problem for them is when he's not scoring and they're not getting fast break points, all of a sudden it starts to. We start adding up, and it's like, shit, how are they going to get to 110 if he's not going to have points and they're not going to get fast break points and they're not going to hit a bunch of threes and that was it. But, you know, they got the game, they won. Now OKC gets to go back to Indy. That Indy game three is going to be, you know, I'm sure all the Indiana legends will be there. The crowd's going to be crazy. And we, we've seen OKC on the road look a little sketchy sometimes. You know, they're a different team at home than on the road. So if I'm Indiana, I'm like, we're good. We got three games at home. Let's do this. Did you see any adjustment stuff from OKC other than they played? Seemed like they played the bigs a little bit more, but it wasn't like dramatic, Homegrown played 27, Hartenstein played 22. So they never went super small, I don't think. Other than that, I didn't really say anything.
- [09:32]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I love the Hartenstein minutes. Again. I liked him in game one and, you know, there was a couple things I was looking for, and I thought the double big stuff really worked. I mean, they were a disaster on the boards in that first game. The Pacers had 56 boards. They were plus 17. They holding the 35 boards. Granted, better shooting as well, but a minus 8 for the Pacers on this one. So there was how much he wants to do the double big stuff. It seems pretty clear. And this is the other thing that I saw in that last regular season game is that I don't know if OKC is worried about Hartenstein being a target for all of these different guys that are really good with the ball in their hands. You know, it's like four different guys. If they feel like if they go double big, then it's a real concern. What's going to happen with Siakam, I imagine, is part of thinking about it. But, you know, sometimes when we think about different roster options and which five guys you want out there, we only think of the downside to what those things can be. And I liked the minutes tonight from those guys. And they didn't. You know, that was another thing with, with game one. I thought he brought back SGA a little late tonight. It didn't really matter. He brought him in two minutes after Halberton. And I thought Carlisle, I talked with Legs about it. Like, Carlisle was probably thrilled that they went small to close the last three plus minutes in game one being like, all right, great. Because now we don't have to worry about Miles Turner being a target as much. Even though Turner was kind of like their offensive plan, it felt like for much of the third quarter. So by that point, the game didn't really matter to see if they were going to experiment with something small again. And you're right about the pace thing. Like the Pacers always have, like this Knicks series versus this series. It looks so different because the Knicks could not ever figure out a way to adjust to the transition part of it and that transition part of it through these two games. I think it's concerning. It's great they got the split. Obviously, you know, there are huge underdogs in this, but have you felt like at any point during these two games where you're like, oh, there's Indiana, like out rushing and, and just fly in, getting those easy buckets and the defense is scrambling? Like, it's just something I thought about is this one went final. I'm like, I don't. I don't really remember any part of this offense in the last two days or last two games where it felt like it was just so unrelenting because of their pace.
- [11:42]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, and that's the thing with Halliburton. Like, he's not like a mega usage guy, you know, and if, if he misses a couple shots early and if he's not going to run the ball in the fast break, it's not like he's going to figure out how to get 20 shots the same way SGA would. I'm with you. There was a couple moments when they ran when they actually had, like, lanes, and you're like, oh, there it is. But I really think OKC's entire game plan is for that not to happen. You know, they're just. They're sending multiple dudes at Halliburton and they don't, they don't want Indiana to run. When Indiana runs, they're a different team. I think at home, they're going to be able to run probably a little bit more. So I was with you on the double bigs, and they only did it, it felt like for maybe four or five minutes, but in those minutes, they just seem huge compared to Indiana because Indiana's just not a big team. I wonder, conversely, with Indiana, are they going to go super small and try to have like multiple guards and multiple handlers? Like, will they play McConnell, Hal, Burton and Nemhardt at the same time, shit like that, to try to make it a little more chaotic and track meaty? Trying to think of what adjustments they would do.
- [12:50]
Ryan Rosillo
I think you're in a lot of pro if you're that small, though, man. Um, and even like, to the Pacers Small lineup. It's not necessarily that small. Cause Top and Siakam are probably the preferable five, depending on what they want to do with the rest of the guards. But you know, OKC's a big team. And even though Caruso and Wallace are their smallest guys, they're just such badasses and they're so strong. Caruso's in on everything. Like that stuff when the game starts to get to a point where like other guys are tired and then he's just on the baseline and it feels like he's just everywhere and everybody's forgetting about him and how hard he's fighting for position and becoming like this last second little thing. It's just, you know, it's all over the court.
- [13:31]
Bill Simmons
Sometimes he's under the rim, then he's in the corner, then he's under the rim again. It's like, how'd you get over there? I also feel like, and I don't, I don't care who wins this series. I'm amazed by how much he gets away with, with the hand checking and stuff. He's just. The way he uses his hands. It's gotta be so frustrating to go against him. Cause like everything's a foul. So nothing's a foul, right? He's just, he's establishing contact and he's just. That's what he's doing. And it's really effective. And then they, you know, Wallace is another one who's a little bit handsy. Dort is just like built like a fucking football linebacker. I can't imagine Hal Burns having a great time in this series. Even the game winning shot he had at game one, that was not an easy shot. I. It was funny because we went right after the game and I only saw that play and then we went right on. There were so many fascinating wrinkles to that last play where they, it seemed like there was a split second where he could have backdoored to Siakam for a game winning layup. And Caruso was kind of frozen by the possibility of it. But the shot he ended up making. It's so weird to see somebody, they think they're going to pass and then shoot at the last second. But my point is nothing's. Nothing's coming that easy. Tim, do you think OKC has this. Has those first two games changed any opinion you had on this series?
- [14:51]
Ryan Rosillo
You know, I think the only thing. Not really. So the simple answer is no. I thought it was going to be really hard for the Pacers to solve this defense four times for Four wins in a seven game series. But with what the Pacers have done here historically with these comebacks and what is it, eight and one in clutch games. So of course tonight doesn't get into the clutch category. The only thing you were thinking about in between game one and two, at least for me, you know, I'll ask you, but it was. Is there going to be some weird, like the Pacers are just more comfortable in this spot because it seems a little silly to be like, you know, the Thunder were young and this is still sort of new to them. And it's like, well, you know, it's not like the Pacers have been in seven Eastern Conference finals here. This is, this is exactly like this hardened team, even though they made it to the Eastern Conference finals last year. So they make it one more round. And so I was, I was letting those thoughts enter my head, but I never felt like conclusive of going. Does Indiana have this like intangible advantage? That's hard to describe other than there's just certain teams that look comfortable in these moments and other teams that don't.
- [16:01]
Bill Simmons
It's so funny you mentioned thoughts creeping in your head about halfway through that first quarter when it was going back and forth and OKC looked a bit frazzled and the pace was a little chaotic, but Indiana seemed really comfortable with how it was going. And I started thinking like, maybe they just love the speed and physicality and everything of an OKC series in a way that other teams seem to eventually shrink from it. Like maybe this is just, maybe they're just finding themselves. Maybe this team is just hitting some gear. And there's been examples in history, like I remember in 04 with the Pistons, as that Pistons Lakers series went along, you could kind of feel them growing into just the dominant team. And same with the spurs against the Heat 2014. So I did, I did, I was watching going, huh, maybe Indiana is just awesome, you know, and then all of a sudden they're down 15 in the second quarter. It's like, okay, some still, still some limitations here. I still think OKC is going to win the series, I think.
- [17:02]
Ryan Rosillo
And staying on the, the books, agree the home part of this, and I'd love to know the updated odds when you get those. But if you think of like the two things that have happened for these two teams to be meeting for a championship, OKC has been destroying teams at home. So what happened tonight is actually very normal. I mean, they beat Memphis by 50. They, they lose on the only other game that they've lost at home now. So they've lost two playoff games at.
- [17:32]
Bill Simmons
Home, two really dumb last 10 seconds of the game losses.
- [17:36]
Ryan Rosillo
So it's the Aaron Gordon.
- [17:37]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. Everything else has been double figures.
- [17:39]
Ryan Rosillo
And then the only lead the Pacers have in game one is when Halliburton hits it with 0.3 seconds left.
- [17:45]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [17:45]
Ryan Rosillo
So those are probably more anomalies than some of these other games they have on their resume. Like whether it's, you know, they have game two against Denver. They beat them by 43 in game two. They kill them in game seven. You know, they. They put it to Minnesota in those third quarters, they play that epic game at Minnesota in Game 4 and win that one. And then it's like, okay, well, what kind of fight does Minnesota have? And then they lose by three. So there's just some serious ass kickings that happen, especially in that place. Yeah. So tonight, Tonight, I, I guess you could argue kind of both games make sense because of what the Pacers have done and what the Thunder have done.
- [18:26]
Bill Simmons
So we're at 1 1, they're minus 5, 60. Here's my sports radio topic for you.
- [18:34]
Ryan Rosillo
Oh, nice.
- [18:37]
Bill Simmons
Is the NHL Finals officially more interesting than the NBA Finals this year? Because the NHL Finals have been unbelievable. That game, that game, too, the other night was out of control. That was one of the best finals hockey games I've watched. And there's so many storylines in Florida. It seems like they have every annoying guy in the league. They have like an all star team. And then you have McDavid, that assist he had in the, in the first period when he basically juked two guys and got it to. To LD for the old goal there. I just. I don't know. It's. It's been an amazing series. And you're watching that. It's like two teams at the peak of their powers. Like McDavid, the best, probably the best NHL player who hasn't won the cup, like, ever. And then you have this Florida team that has a chance to go back to back and has all these great players on it. And then you watch this OKC Indiana team where it's like, OKC, probably not the team they're going to be two years from now. They'll probably be even better in 2027. And then Indiana, who's just having this kind of miraculous, crazy run, and it just seems way more, I don't know, just random than that. Florida, Edmonton, where you're like, holy shit. This could be one of the defining NHL series we've had. That's my that's my case.
- [19:56]
Ryan Rosillo
I've loved these two games as I expected to love them. So, yeah, I've enjoyed the Cup Final more than the NBA Finals.
- [20:04]
Bill Simmons
It's not even close.
- [20:05]
Ryan Rosillo
No.
- [20:05]
Bill Simmons
But I think, I think when we get to Indy, I think the NBA Finals can rise up.
- [20:11]
Ryan Rosillo
The other thing that's a very selfish reason is there's nothing like watching a sporting event and not having to have any fucking takes.
- [20:20]
Bill Simmons
You like the relief?
- [20:21]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, it's awesome. I don't take notes. I don't know what the hell's going on. So I was just like, this is fun. Like I'm just going to sit here and enjoy the sport because I'm dropping in. So I feel like a, like, it's almost like voyeurism. Just like, all right, I'm gonna hang out here in the bushes and, and watch what's going on.
- [20:42]
Bill Simmons
I thought that went the French Open the last few days too. I just hopped in.
- [20:47]
Ryan Rosillo
I watched Creepy Bill.
- [20:49]
Bill Simmons
I watched the third, fourth and fifth sets from hiding behind a tree. I was just like, this is the best shot making I've ever seen in my life. I mean, it's on clay, so it's a little different than, you know, you have a little more chances to have rallies and stuff, but. Holy shit. Yeah, holy shit. Was it great?
- [21:05]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, what's the, what's the storyline like? Play it out for which one? There's. Is there anything. I mean, certainly you would say, hey, SGA cements his place in this game.
- [21:16]
Bill Simmons
I think that's why people are struggling with this series. Because if OKC wins, the takes are. Is this the start of like a little mini dynasty? You start, you go backwards and you're like, is this like 2015 warriors? Is this 2000 Lakers is. You go through these, these teams that had these half decade runs since the start of that. If Indiana wins, it's the probably the single craziest champion we've had since you and I have known each other. I mean, you'd have to go back, maybe you'd have to go into the mid-90s. Rockets that one year when they were like, were they like 40? The back to back the second? Was it the first season? One of those seasons they were just underdogs in every series and somehow won, you know, but at least they had a Keem. It made more sense.
- [22:01]
Ryan Rosillo
Clutch City. Yeah. Wait, so like, well, how would a Pacers championship compare to Dirk's championship against the Heat?
- [22:10]
Bill Simmons
Well, Dirk was an all time great player, so at least like in, in the way we look at basketball and the way we've learned about basketball, it at least makes some sense. Indiana winning, where you said it yourself, like, like you're still struggling, whether Halliburton's the top 10 player or not, because he's on all the lists now, and you're like, all right, if he's a top 10 player, why did I forget he was out there for the first half of game two of the Finals? I don't know. It was just. The 04 pistons would be the only other one, but that team had just that. That starting five was almost their superstar identity.
- [22:48]
Ryan Rosillo
You know, what, did they make eight or. Excuse me, was it six Eastern Conference finals in a row?
- [22:53]
Bill Simmons
Right.
- [22:53]
Ryan Rosillo
The Detroit team. So.
- [22:55]
Bill Simmons
But they were huge underdogs in 04. I think they were like, plus 400.
- [22:59]
Ryan Rosillo
No doubt.
- [23:00]
Bill Simmons
People are handing the title of the Lakers.
- [23:02]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I'm not saying that wasn't really surprising. And maybe this is year two of like, the Pacers being in the Easter Conference Finals a bunch of years in a row. Like, it's. It's certainly not impossible, especially when you start thinking about what the east could look like after this summer.
- [23:18]
Bill Simmons
But, you know, if anyone's going to.
- [23:20]
Ryan Rosillo
Be left, we might.
- [23:22]
Bill Simmons
We might not have enough guys for an all star team in the East. The story, clean house. And if Giannis goes west, we're going to be in major trouble.
- [23:30]
Ryan Rosillo
I know, right? I mean, the Knicks are still going to be good. I think Cleveland's still going to be good, but whatever. I think we've already done this before, but you know how, like, storylines, like, one of the biggest reasons why people got in F1 is because of the storylines. Because now you had this familiarity with these characters. It was this very elitist kind of world. You know, I remember Kevin Clark writing about it. He's like, the drivers are like, good looking and all the locations are like the best places in the world. And so there's this almost like lifestyle's the rich and famous element to when you would get into F1. But the biggest thing was, and what every league is always hoping to do is can you make a connection with the fans so they now care about the outcomes of these games because there's some attachment, right?
- [24:14]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [24:15]
Ryan Rosillo
And it made me think about hockey. Like, sure, I want McDavid to get a cup because he is that special. And I, I hate it when the great ones don't have it. And there's this like. Like, I would have been furious if Pedro ended up without a World Series. Like, that would have bothered me. You know, I probably eventually would have gotten over it and gone off into retirement. Been okay. But even. Even players I don't like, you know, like, I don't know.
- [24:40]
Bill Simmons
Do you have a gym when you're retired? You'll be fine.
- [24:43]
Ryan Rosillo
Probably. Yeah. You know, found the youth. You know, even Barry Bonds, like, there's something to be said of, like, I. I still wish he had won. What was it, 2002?
- [24:54]
Bill Simmons
It was the angel series.
- [24:56]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, right.
- [24:56]
Bill Simmons
He did everything he could have possibly done.
- [24:59]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, but.
- [24:59]
Bill Simmons
And that's meant to be.
- [25:01]
Ryan Rosillo
At that time 20 years ago, I was rooting for Bonds because I was like, I want him to be recognized. And it's the same kind of thing with McDavid. But then you add in the rematch and the down 30 last year and just. I mean, I don't know that I care about any of the storylines other than. And this also could be what's happening in, like. I even messed around with the soccer match today after the tennis, because the same thing with F1. I know we've talked about it a little bit, is I'm enjoying sports that are not disrupted and hockey is not disrupted for these really, really long stretches. And you're just watching guys play. And unfortunately, with basketball and football, the ends of these games, that whole dramatic, like, tension edge of your seat, because you're actually constantly getting a chance to, like, reset emotionally. And in hockey, you don't have any time. Like, you're afraid to even look at your phone for a second when we had what we had on Friday night. So I love the sport. I don't talk about it very much, but. Because, again, I don't really feel all that comfortable talking about it because I'm not that versed on all the minor details of it. But I. Yeah, I mean, there's no question I've enjoyed those two games more than Games 1 and 2 of the NBA Finals.
- [26:12]
Bill Simmons
I was at a birthday party Friday, and there was no TV on. And it was like an outside backyard, but they had a tv.
- [26:18]
Ryan Rosillo
Did you get it? Good.
- [26:20]
Bill Simmons
I made the host put the hockey game on. Like, can you put it on? So he finds it, puts it on, and, like, nobody else at the party cares. And I'm like, third period, we gotta. I need a couple people. Like, we gotta. And within, I don't know, two minutes, there was, like, five. Five guys just kind of, like, riveted by it because it was. It's that kind of finals. And then every once In a while, McDavid just goes, really Fast. It's so funny. People who know nothing about hockey are like, what's the deal with that guy? Why is he so much faster than everybody else? It's like, that's McDavid. He's probably the best player, best offensive player the league's ever had since Gretzky.
- [27:02]
Ryan Rosillo
Watching him go faster. No, I'm, I'm with you on this.
- [27:04]
Bill Simmons
There's nothing more exciting than him going fast.
- [27:07]
Ryan Rosillo
He doesn't even have to do anything. And I get so excited once he just decides I'm going to go faster than everybody else.
- [27:14]
Bill Simmons
I like when they run the play where it's, it's like, oh, no, they, they, they're in their own end and they almost do like a, like, it's like an inbounds play in the NBA when they have the guy running full speed, but they'll do it just to try to create space so he can heat up fast and go fast and he just flies. And it's really fun. He goes so fast that you almost wonder, could he go just like in video games? Could he just go around the net and just wrap it around and they wouldn't even know it happened anyway, that game went into double overtime. And it's interesting because Marsh, he's on, he's on Florida. They trade the conditional second round pick for him, and it activates if they make the round three, which they do, and then, you know, he comes up massive. And now he has the third most playoff goals ever. It was hard not to. Hard to root against him. I don't even know who I'm rooting for. I bet on Edmonton for the series, but it's hard for me not to root against him. What I love about Florida is how many annoying guys they have. I think they might have broken the record. They have the most guys who will do something cheap right after the whistle that I've ever seen in my life. It's like, whistle, and then Bennett's just like, elbow somebody side of the head. What? I didn't do that. What do you mean? Um, but yeah, it's a really good series. I think it's a good point that you made about the storylines thing, because it is one of these. Everyone's going to just point to the ratings because the ratings would be terrible tonight, right? It's, it'll be, oh, this is the worst Sunday night rating we've had since so and so. Because the game was decided the third quarter. You know, it's two small markets, it's two teams. We don't have A lot of familiarity with. And it's a league that we've talked about many times on this podcast that has refused to push the next generation of teams because they're just putting the old stars on over and over and over again in the biggest spots. These are two teams that we knew were good heading into the season. OKC was on tv, decent amount. I don't think Indiana was. But you know, you kind of learn these guys through the playoffs and I don't think the league, you know, if you're going to criticize the league on anything, it's just not pushing the younger teams that they know are going to be good. We knew these teams are going to be good and I don't think they were on TV enough. Would that have changed the rating? I have no idea.
- [29:31]
Ryan Rosillo
Probably not. I know, no, because I mean as great as SGA is and you know, I think tonight was really special. It was a really special game that it wasn't just the scoring. It was like, okay, this guy's at another level than the other nine guys, whoever the other nine guys are that are out there. And so it's just nice, you know, it's nice if they get this, to have something like that in this MVP season, have that kind of game on his resume in the biggest spot. Right. And there's still going to be bigger spots, so we'll see what happens. But he's a really quiet dude, you know, he's not, he's not going in like he's great for franchise to be the face of your franchise because you're just not dealing with any bullshit. Yeah, sometimes the bullshit brings people in and the know, I think we all like drama and this league has become so popular in a way that's unlike the other leagues. And I'm not, I'm not talking about ratings, but just like the daily consciousness of it and certainly you and I are far too in it. So maybe we're not even great gauges with this, but the amount of like nonsense that we spend hours talking about, which is actually just good because there's an awareness of this league. These are two teams. Like there's no nonsense. And that's awesome for the coaching staff, it's awesome for the locker room. But there's not really this like it doesn't feel like there's anything necessarily at stake other than the championship. And for those secondary viewers there's, there's probably just a lot of boredom. Be like, oh, so their best players like incredibly efficient with pull up jumpers and the Free throw thing hasn't been an issue really, I don't think at all. I mean, the third core is a free throw. A free, free throw fest. Either. Both going both ways, but you know what I mean? Like, there isn't. There isn't this like big engaging personality, which again is great if you have to work every day with these people. But the. The next day stuff and. And getting your mom to be like, what's on tv? It's. It's not a great matchup for that. Which we.
- [31:34]
Bill Simmons
My daughter. My daughter came and watched game two with me and I don't think she looked up more than like five times. She was just on her phone. It's just. I think that's what it's probably going to be for casual viewers. It's a good point. On sga, he just does everything really well. He was awesome tonight. And not awesome in like, you know, there's those two ways of being awesome in NBA game. And he's like in the. Quiet, efficient. Almost like a Greg Maddox just getting guys out. Not.
- [32:03]
Ryan Rosillo
No, it's perfect.
- [32:04]
Bill Simmons
Not doing like the 17 strikeouts. Did you see that interview with him where he got asked the question and he did the deep sigh and searched for the answer for 10 seconds. It was pretty interesting. So I forget. I think it was Malika. He asked him something. He's like, oh, man. Really wanted to come up with a good answer for it. It was just unusual because a lot of these guys are so media trained for moments like that. And these guys are still like getting used to being famous people. You know, Shay's famous. I don't know. But he's a Canadian star who's been in the spotlight for a while, but he's not like famous famous. Seen a couple commercials now. I don't think he's as. I wouldn't say he's one of the 10 most famous players in the league right now.
- [32:54]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, that's bad. If that's your mvp. And I'm not being critical of him. I. I just don't know that there's. And this becomes like this kind of circular thing where it happens all the time. Like, I always kind of. Whether I joke with you or other people that are in this business with us, it's like no one's ever lost a show because of them. They've only lost a show because people didn't do enough to promote it.
- [33:14]
Bill Simmons
Right, right, right.
- [33:16]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay. You know what? That contract, I wasn't really into it. Didn't like the producer. So I was showing up. I Was giving you, like, my C plus game.
- [33:25]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [33:26]
Ryan Rosillo
And this, oddly, feels like I'm sort of saying something about someone specific, but I'm not. I'm not. I'm not saying anything specific. I'm just saying that that's the. The norm is as soon as something's over, it'll be like, oh, well, you know, I could have done this, or this could be better, the whole thing. And there. There's. Remember, like, the baseball stuff. It's like baseball's declining because they're not marketing their stars. I've heard it with the wnba, like, they don't market enough. And I always wonder. It's like, well, if SGA is this buttoned up, but what are you supposed to do? Like, is it because if OKC were on national TV 12 more times this year, would the NBA Finals ratings be better? And I'm asking. I don't. I don't know the answer to that. But sometimes we. We just default to this. Well, the league should have done this. The leagues do a bad job here. And it's like, I don't know, sometimes people just. They're just not interested. They just might not be interested, and there's nothing you can do.
- [34:24]
Bill Simmons
I remember 07 when LeBron made the Finals against San Antonio, and we were LeBron. It was still pretty new, right? It was, I think. I think his fourth season. And the ratings for that finals were terrible because it was a mismatch, and we didn't have a real history with LeBron yet. And then he had his two MVP seasons in 09 and 2010. And that was when it was like, going to be LeBron versus Kobe. And that became the storyline. And then LeBron didn't make the finals of the year. It was interesting. His shoe, I think the biggest selling shoe he ever had was 2011 after the decision. It was like he needed the soap opera, the decision to go to that next level for people like our parents to have opinions on him. Maybe sga, maybe he needs a career polarization consultant.
- [35:17]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, but what's he gonna do? Demand? Like, what could he possibly do? Like, this is. This is actually the greatest compliment you can give somebody who's the face of a franchise is that it's so consistently, every day is the same. Boring.
- [35:30]
Bill Simmons
He's just an awesome teammate.
- [35:31]
Ryan Rosillo
Right.
- [35:32]
Bill Simmons
You know, can all my teammates come in and do my interview with me?
- [35:35]
Ryan Rosillo
I. I just want to, like, remind everyone listening, this is not even close to a criticism. This is like, oh, all you could ever want out of, especially somebody this young. To be like, this guy already gets it. And look, Jalen Williams did the media availability stuff before the finals even get started. And I was listening on NBA radio to his press conference, but I didn't know who it was right away. I thought it was like a 45 year old coach. Like, who is this guy? I was like, this guy's really, really impressive.
- [36:02]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [36:03]
Ryan Rosillo
And then I had to like hit the screen because it was like, know your phone, it wasn't coming up, right? And then boom, it's Jalen Williams. And I'm thinking, my God, this guy's been in the league like just a few years. And this is what he sounds like already. Like, these guys.
- [36:22]
Bill Simmons
He might need to do a Brett Hitman Hart did in the mid-90s.
- [36:26]
Ryan Rosillo
What's going on? He was the champ.
- [36:28]
Bill Simmons
Well, he was a good guy. He was the champ, but he was kind of like, you know, he was just a professional guy. He's very similar to sga, actually. Just very good at his.
- [36:35]
Ryan Rosillo
Canadian too, isn't he?
- [36:36]
Bill Simmons
Canadian? Always good matches. And then they kind of leaned into how do we make him a villain? And he started doing this kind of agro Canadian guy thing and insulting, saying how Canada is better than America. And then the fans were like, what? And that became kind of a thing. That became his first nod. Maybe that's what SJ needs to do. Yeah, it's tough to play in America when Canada is obviously a superior country. Like what? SGA is insulting America. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra, the official beer partner of the NBA. We are smack dab in the middle of the finals. And you know when your preferred team wins, in my case, the Boston Celtics, you want to celebrate in some way. I celebrated when the Celtics won last year, ran back to my dad's place, did a podcast with my dad, and then ironically right afterwards celebrated with Michelob Ultra. Because we had some in the fridge. It was really great. The next best thing to being a champion is celebrating like one. Michelob Ultra is bottling up that winning feeling with exclusive NBA championship bottles in collaboration with renowned artist and designer Victor Solomon, the creative mind behind many of the NBA's most iconic trophies. You have the chance to get your own championship bottle. Enter for your chance to win at michelobucher.com'unquote courtside/champs bottles. Michelob Ultra courtside Victor Solomon Champs, bottles, sweepstakes. No purchase necessary. Open to US residents 21/ends 6-22-2025. See Official Rules@michelobalcher.com Rules for free entry prizes and details, message and data rates may apply. Void where prohibited. What are your expectations now? If you had to say OKC will win the finals in blank games, how many games would you say?
- [38:34]
Ryan Rosillo
I said five, maybe at six. But I, I don't see how the Pacers are going to solve this defense for four wins.
- [38:42]
Bill Simmons
I don't know who those offensive spark is going to be for situations like what happened today when they were able to limit Hal Burton. And I don't. It's it. It'd have to be like a Ma and Toppin somebody that.
- [38:56]
Ryan Rosillo
You mean game one where everybody scored.
- [38:59]
Bill Simmons
Well and everybody had like 10 and.
- [39:01]
Ryan Rosillo
They were still down 15 in the fourth quarter? Yeah, you know, they got away with the turnovers because OKC wasn't scoring on turnovers. I think it was 11 points off those 25 turnovers. And legs and I were talking about it on our pod going like, you know how hard it is to only score 11 points off of 25 turnovers. That, that's harder than forcing the 25 turnovers. Just the anomaly of that. And they had such great balance. But you know, Siakam doesn't have a field goal make in the second half a game two. Granted he was at the free throw line nine times. So sometimes the field goal attempt make thing can be a little misleading when you're looking at the shot chart after the game's over. But instead of like incredible balance, massive rebounding edge hitting the game winner, I mean that game was not going their way for two plus hours until it did. And then Pacers have done it so many times that we're almost like, oh, that's not even weird for them. It's still kind of weird.
- [39:52]
Bill Simmons
Right? Well, and then the flip side, OKC plays like one of the weirder offensive games they've played all year where they basically just didn't pass the ball at all. They. They made a concerted effort in this game to be like, we gotta move, make the extra pass. SGA led the way and that was it. I would say. I think Indiana gets one of the two in Indiana just because I feel like OKC has looked gamey in some of these road games. And I think that atmosphere is going to be awesome. And I think Indiana's good at home and I think they can get one. And I would, I had OKC in five, I'd probably revise that to OKC in six, but I do not think we're getting seven. I just think OKC is too good and they really shouldn't have Lost game one when you think of it that way. Right. So I. I would. I would kind of stick in the five to six range for them.
- [40:41]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. So like, like three is now harder for the Pacers because it's one one than two. Oh, you know, if it were two. Oh, I would probably just pick the Pacers in game three.
- [40:51]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [40:51]
Ryan Rosillo
But I don't know. I. I don't know. Do the Pacers. If the Pacers, If Halliburton doesn't hit that shot, OKC wins it. Do we see a better effort from them or do you see, like, there was one possession, it was 52, 39, and I wrote this one down and at that point had gone from like 23 points to a 13 point lead. And you're like, man, here are the Pacers, like, hanging in there. Because when it was 23, OKC had the ball. Then they had like a bunch of turnovers, multiple possessions. And so the Pacers are getting back into the game. But there was this stretch where they kept getting offensive rebounds on this one possession, but every shot after the offensive rebound was so hard. And then I think they ended up either getting free throws or had to make eventually. But there was just that moment when you're watching the Thunder swarm and you're like, these shots suck. Like, these guys have the ball and it's like, I guess I'll go now, but I don't really want to take this, but, like, this is a bad shot because it's so contested, but I don't really know if there's anything better than what I'm doing. And they would take. And they kept getting the offensive rebound. But, like, that specific possession, I was like, man, when the Thunder get it rolling like this, like, it's a pretty helpless feeling. And then to your point, it's kind of like, all right, is it Siakam against mismatches? Are you going to run a ton of that? Are you going to have Halliburton coming off of curls? Are you going to let Nemhar ISO. Are you going to run the post stuff that they did with Turner, who they like Turner against Chet in the post, but nobody does it. Like, nobody goes, okay, cool. It's Chad against Turner for eight minutes. Let's make sure he gets a post touch every time down. Like, NBA teams just don't even want to do it, even when they like their advantage.
- [42:25]
Bill Simmons
Well, and then the other thing, you get in the paint and you think it's a good thing to be in the paint, but against okc, it's like the Senate Circle. Hell yeah. It's just.
- [42:33]
Ryan Rosillo
That's a great point.
- [42:33]
Bill Simmons
These extra hands come out. There was that one when Halbert beat his guy off the dribble and SGA came from behind him and did like the Spider man strip and just got all ball like that. No other team does shit like that.
- [42:46]
Ryan Rosillo
Wallace had a contest in the corner where he blocked it and I couldn't believe.
- [42:52]
Bill Simmons
Against Neesmith.
- [42:53]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. And it was. I was like, he blocked because the ball flies out. And I'm like, what? He got his hand on that. Especially when you're thinking of like Wallace not exactly being the biggest dude out there. And he had a makeup ground and it's not even just a contest. He blocks it. And I was like, this is. They have. They have possessions defensively where it. It just feels horrifying.
- [43:15]
Bill Simmons
It's stupid. And if they just run back the team, I don't know why they wouldn't be a little bit better next year than this year. Because all none of their guys are like exactly in their prime or past their prime. Except for maybe Caruso, you could argue, like maybe he's peaked as a basketball player. This is all we're getting. You could go through every other guy in that team and make a case they're going to be like 5% better next year. I don't know if they're going to keep Dort. I don't know if there's some salary cap mechanics that they have to do. And maybe, you know, you're bringing in topic, topic, whatever his name is the rookie who got hurt. You try to fill his minutes with more Wallace and maybe that's how you save some salary and push it toward Shet and Jalen Williams extensions. I don't know if they don't have to do that for another year, but this is probably the team. Florida's -115 to win the cup again. Edmonton's -104. So basically dead even. I don't know if you want to put some wood on or you just naturally rooting for McDavid.
- [44:16]
Ryan Rosillo
I'm rooting for McDavid and everybody knows how much I love the city of Edmonton.
- [44:22]
Bill Simmons
So I was watching PTI before the finals and they had bucha grass on and they was basically like, just tell us, give us the storylines for the series. And he did this awesome McDavid thing, which I'm sure he's done on TV too. About this is the best player ever to have not won a cup yet. And it's not Close. And you go through the history of hockey and nobody has ever been even close to being as good as this guy who hasn't won yet. And this is the moment. It's right here. They have some salary cap issues next year. It's going to be much harder with their roster. Like, they have to do it this year. This is an incredible amount of pressure. He has to get it done this year. And I was like, driving my car. I'm like, yeah, he's got to get it done. I was like. I was like, fired up listening to it. But this is the. This is the moment. And there's. There's no basketball storyline like that. I don't think in hockey. Yeah. There's no basketball equivalent of this. The only one I get, like, it's basically like Dirk in 2011. But if Dirk was the best player in the league for like seven straight years and was in that same kind of Dallas spot, I guess would be the analogy. Right. Who else would it be in the last 25 years?
- [45:37]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, you'd have to be the undisputed best in the sport. And as great as Dirk was, he wasn't that as much as I was.
- [45:44]
Bill Simmons
That LeBron just staying in Cleveland never leaves. And now it's like 2016.
- [45:49]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, that's good.
- [45:52]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. I like McDavid. That video last year of him just screaming at everybody in the locker room was one of the best, best Internet locker room videos I've ever seen in my life.
- [46:02]
Ryan Rosillo
I'm a huge Capitan guy. Another fin. Yeah. I don't know if he's any good or not. I played golf with one of the retired guys and I was like, afraid to go, like, is Cabinet good? You know, be like, golfing with you? Like, is Aaron Wiggins a max guy?
- [46:20]
Bill Simmons
Bill? Is he. Would you rather have Aaron Wiggins or Michael Porter Jr. I'm going to bring that up again.
- [46:31]
Ryan Rosillo
Man. I mean, Look, Michael Porter Jr. Is clearly the more challenged player. Right? Like, we don't.
- [46:39]
Bill Simmons
Sure.
- [46:40]
Ryan Rosillo
There's no debate there. Right.
- [46:42]
Bill Simmons
Okay.
- [46:48]
Ryan Rosillo
Wow. I mean, I think. I think I still take Porter Jr. Just because the dribble shot making stuff when it's really good is. Is bananas. B, A N A S bananas.
- [46:57]
Bill Simmons
We're gonna play. We're gonna play a game called I wouldn't be surprised if. Dot, dot, dot. Because it is now June 8th.
- [47:05]
Ryan Rosillo
I think I misspelled bananas.
- [47:07]
Bill Simmons
Four weeks. Four weeks from now, a bunch of shit will have happened. We will have an NBA champion. We will have an NBA draft. We will probably have a couple Trades in June, we will have some free agent signings in July and maybe even some more trades. And the league is going to look a lot different. Some people are saying it's going to be the craziest off season. I can't imagine that. I still feel like I've heard this a couple times, even from people we like, like Windhorst. I still feel like the Kawhi Paul, George Anthony Davis summer, to me is the 10 out of 10 for crazy summers. I don't know if we're topping that.
- [47:44]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, but Davis was in February, wasn't it?
- [47:46]
Bill Simmons
No, Davis, that, that trade. It was in July, remember? They tried to trade him in February and it didn't go through. And then all those Lakers were stuck on the team for the rest of the year after they'd been in the trade.
- [47:57]
Ryan Rosillo
I remember. Yeah. Cause I was. I remember just only because it was super bowl and I was constantly. We were all on like a low Davis. So I thought, all right, I forgot about that.
- [48:06]
Bill Simmons
To me, that's the number one summer. Tough one to be, but anyway.
- [48:09]
Ryan Rosillo
You seem to have animosity about expectations that it could be a crazy summer, though. That's what I like. I don't know. I mean, sure, there's a lot of. There's a lot of stuff that feels like there's possibilities it could be.
- [48:19]
Bill Simmons
For it to be the craziest summer, I think Giannis would have to move. I think that's. That's locked in.
- [48:25]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah.
- [48:26]
Bill Simmons
And other stuff would have to happen, but we would have to have Giannis. A Yanis trade would have to be part of that for that to even be in the conversation. Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if. Give me one.
- [48:39]
Ryan Rosillo
I wouldn't be surprised if. Well, let me say it this way, because it's not based on intel or anything, but the Celtics clearly have to make moves because of the finances. And it's hard to sign off on a team without Tatum and be like, that's fine. And then all the restrictions that are involved in a super expensive team without its best player. So I don't think, like, tanking makes any sense. You know, if the Celtics run it back with Jalen Brown and say, you know what, we get a really good player back and 25, 26, probably going to be a great season. And that's probably the case for almost every team that starts their year, it's okay. And we'll figure out a way to cut cost and move out some players. But we still want to be Jaylen Brown. Tatum having said that if there's an offer out there that makes sense, I think they'd explore it. So, yeah, I guess I wouldn't be shocked if, If Brown, if they did treat it like a gap year, I could see the argument for both approaches.
- [49:36]
Bill Simmons
I would throw a third approach in. What if they just blew it up? And I. I would have been surprised three, four weeks ago, but I don't think I'd be as surprised now.
- [49:44]
Ryan Rosillo
What's blow it up mean?
- [49:46]
Bill Simmons
I mean, like, multiple trades. Like, they just say, fuck it. We're. We're Tatum stock playing next year. When he comes back a year from now, we're going to reset everything, and we're going to have a completely different team. So that would be because what people have been talking about with them, or they'll trade Drew and. Or Porzingis to get under the tax. I think the one thing. The one thing I would definitely put major money on is that they will shed 20 to 25 million somehow over the summer. And I don't know how they're going to do it, but they will. I guess the question for them is, could somebody overwhelm them with a Jalen offer? Especially if Giannis doesn't get traded and Jalen becomes basically the best guy to get. If you're one of those teams that's right here trying to go up a notch, and Jalen's probably the number one draft pick at that point.
- [50:37]
Ryan Rosillo
See, I like that.
- [50:37]
Bill Simmons
I hope it doesn't happen, but it may. It. It. I'm starting to get nervous that it might.
- [50:42]
Ryan Rosillo
What I like about what you said there, though, is something I think we've touched on, whether it's on this pod or on our own stuff. But sometimes it feels like it can get a little contagious, where you're doing all the work with your staff, ownership is bought into it. It's like, okay, we're gonna go get one of these big ticket items. And then to your point, like, you feel like you've done the prep work. And not to say that a Jalen Brown package is the same as a Giannis package, but if Durant's available, like, what's that package look like? You know, what if Giannis pulls us? So it's just. You feel like you've been prepping for this moment, and then all of a sudden, Horst and Milwaukee and Giannis and his agent are like, all right, we're fine. And I'm with you now. Like, I already talked about how I've changed my mind after the combine, where it just felt like there was too much conversation around it where it's like, well, then if you don't do it this summer, you're probably going to end up, like, looking at a worse market for them next summer if Milwaukee has a bad season. So doing something that I would never want to do and trade Giannis if I were gm, to me, it makes more sense now for Chicago. Who knows? Could be totally wrong. But if that is pulled off, if the Durant thing is already kind of predetermined, then maybe you're right. Maybe there are three or four teams. It's like we were ready to, like, really swing for something, and, you know, the two. The two other options aren't available here. Does that mean that people feel like they've done enough prep work and there's been enough conversations for that to be something that's easier to. To settle on?
- [52:04]
Bill Simmons
Well, how many teams do we think are stepping into the batter's box with their helmet on, doing the nomar with their gloves, like, getting ready to take a couple swings here? Because to me, it's the Rockets and the spurs are the two I'm watching. Then everybody keeps telling us that Toronto is like that, too. But I. I just. How are they getting? I don't know. Even if they try to get somebody like Giannis, you're trading so much away to get Giannis. He's just basically in the same situation he's already in in the Bucks. Right. I think that's a huge part of any Giannis trade, is he's got to go to a team that's giving up assets, but is keeping enough of their team that it now makes sense for him to go to that team. You know what I mean? And that's where it's. The Rockets and the spurs are the two most likely for me, because they can trade stuff and they can trade future picks, but still keep enough that they become really interesting with him. The Knicks would be the other team, I think, for Giannis, which we've talked about before, and that would involve the Bucks being like, cool car, Anthony Towns, where do we sign? And that would have to, unfortunately, be part of the trade, which is probably why it wouldn't happen. But my feeling is that Giannis stays, and if they decide to do anything, they look at December, January, February, when maybe, you know, by the time we get to December, eight. Eight teams hate their teams, and seven other teams are like, are we doing anything? And you just. Yeah, we might not have that enough. Teams that feel that way now, you know, so Unless, to me, unless it's the Rockets, because if I'm the Spurs, like, let's talk this out. We're this person who had to get a chance to get Giannis, and you're basically giving away the number two pick and all this other stuff to put him with Wemby and, like, de' Aaron Fox, basically. And we're in the room with the owner, trying to walk him through whether we should do that or not. Would you tell him, yeah, do it, because sometimes I'm a. The window is now, if you have a guy like Wemby, go for it. Go for it. I think that number two, like. Like, people really love Harper. People really think he has a chance to be, like, a special offensive guard, you know? And when you think, like, Wemby's pretty young, I don't know. Giannis is 31. He's been in the league since 2013. And I just wonder if. Are the timetables kind of staggered a little too much? Where's Wemby going to be a year from now versus five years from now? Would it be more fun to just kind of grow into the Wemby team versus to just press the button and go for it immediately, whereas Houston, I think, is in a different spot?
- [54:45]
Ryan Rosillo
It would be so much fun just to see how the Wemby Giannis piece fits together.
- [54:50]
Bill Simmons
Can you imagine, imagine them, like, playing Indiana right now in the finals? They're like, yeah, they're having trouble, trouble driving to the paint against Wimby and Giannis.
- [55:02]
Ryan Rosillo
Indiana is going to go to a zone here. I guess they're. They're unveiling their Tony Bradley, Thomas Bryant, Miles Turner lineup.
- [55:12]
Bill Simmons
It's having Indiana's putting James Johnson again, put. Hoping to go Giannis into a fight. I don't know. So would you tell them. Would you tell them, slow, play this, or would you tell them, it's Giannis, you got to go get him?
- [55:29]
Ryan Rosillo
If they're sold on Harper, they then, you know, the contractual control and all kinds of stuff. But sometimes I think we make this really complicated, like, if you have a chance to get Giannis, and this is why I think these teams do this as often as they do. And maybe it's changing a bit with the financial restrictions, but again, we'd have to see this play out for multiple years before I think we have any kind of answer. But you've talked to enough of these guys that run these teams. Like, you hope at one point in your life you get a fucking player as special as Giannis on your roster.
- [55:58]
Bill Simmons
I thought you were gonna say Wemby when you set that set.
- [56:00]
Ryan Rosillo
It's a, yeah, okay, whatever. Wemby ends up.
- [56:03]
Bill Simmons
You might end up with two of those guys at the exact same time.
- [56:06]
Ryan Rosillo
Right? In the spurs, you could say we actually had, like, four of them. But I don't think people can help themselves. I don't think people can say no when Giannis is available. Like, to think of that actual call where it's like, okay, we would. We would do this now. Spurs ownership feels like they've had so much success. Certainly pretty buttoned up place. Maybe, maybe they don't. Maybe they're the outlier. It's like, no, we kind of like the way we do things.
- [56:36]
Bill Simmons
So that would be the, what would Sam Presti do? You'd be. It's the old, what would Belichick do now? It's, what would Sam Presti do? Sam Presti would not trade for Giannis. I think he would rather build around the assets and build around Wemby and try to build a sustainable decade around a guy versus, like, going for the kill quick. Yeah, I mean, it's right.
- [56:59]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. But I think you have to have a certain level of juice. You got to have some kind of equity in your city as a franchise, and you have to have that kind of equity with ownership for you to be able to tell the owner who's ultimately saying yes or no to all this stuff. Like, we shouldn't do this. We shouldn't grab. And as expensive as Giannis is on, on the north side of 30 and some of the injuries, fine, but that's Wemby's contract coming.
- [57:23]
Bill Simmons
Plus you got to pay Fox next year. So now you have three MA guys, which is death with the second apron system. That'd be the reason not to do it.
- [57:32]
Ryan Rosillo
I mean, how would you handle it if you owned a team and they were like, hey, we just got off the phone, Milwaukee. Like, we can have the second or third best player in the world on our team.
- [57:41]
Bill Simmons
I would. So if I'm the Spurs owner, I would be absolutely obsessed with. With trying to figure out how good Harper can. I would have a whole wing of my front office just crunching Harper tape, studying interviews, every piece of it. Because if he has a chance to be either special or close to special, I think that changes the equation. This is not like the Lakers trading for Anthony Davis and the fourth pick in the draft, and it's DeAndre Hunter, and it's like, fine, take them. You know, this is. If this guy could be like a Special running mate with Wemby, and they'd be two years apart, basically, and you would have them just kind of ascending together. And it's. And I've heard this stuff about, well, that's would be weird with him and Fox. It's like, fine, trade Fox. If Harper's special like you, you'll have moves. It's not like you're stuck with whatever team. So. So it. It would. That would what? It would become that. Could I get somebody really special with the second pick in a draft that everybody loves? If I feel like I could. What kind of timetable am I on with Wemby? When do we think Wemby can be somebody who could be in the finals as the best player in the series or one of the two best players? Is that two years away? Is it three years away? Giannis does. I mean, Giannis has a lot of games and some miles on him. That would be the other thing I would worry about with tall guys as they hit their early 30s. The history of that. I would do be doing studies on that. Every 7 foot and up guy from age like 31 on what happened to them. But if I'm Milwaukee, that's my dream trade, right? Can I get the number two pick? Can I get Devin Vassell and Harrison Barnes and some future picks? Like, that's. That would enable me to do a real reset and build around somebody.
- [59:26]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, but the thing that sucks and why if you're Milwaukee, you're like, okay, we're getting their picks, but it just sucks to go through your own rebuild without your picks, without your picks.
- [59:37]
Bill Simmons
But you think maybe we'll be good in a year. Maybe we'll take the hit for one year and then maybe it'll be okay after that.
- [59:44]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, Dylan Harbor's that good then.
- [59:48]
Bill Simmons
I don't know. You tell me how much crunching can be done.
- [59:51]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I've done a. Done a bit of crunching here in the spare time. I think the biggest thing with him is that he. He does everything that you want out of NBA guys. Like the way at his size, that high ball screen and coming off of that and just the. The palette of shit that he can do to you is really good. And I don't even think his shooting is as bad as the numbers are, because I think he's one of those guys that's like, hey, I'm this huge deal coming in. And some of these kids just love pulling up and taking bad threes. It's like watching Steph's influence at pickup games. You'll see some of these higher profile five star guys that have all the game and you know, want to get their numbers and stuff. And his shot selection, his decisions on where he'll decide to pull up from, it's bad. His shooting isn't bad. His when he pulls it because he's like ah fuck it, I'll pull it from here. But like the way, the way he gets going in, just the way the NBA plays, it's, it runs its offense. Like you could just see it like okay, this is why everybody likes this guy this much because he's, he's six, four and a half. He's got this handle and again I think he's a better shooter than the numbers.
- [61:03]
Bill Simmons
I'm going to do. I wouldn't be surprised if, I wouldn't be surprised if Katie to the spurs is done already and they just haven't announced it. Like it's basically they've, they've agreed on specifics and they'll just announce at the week of the draft. I'm not, don't aggregate that. I have no inside info. It just feels this is, goes back to the honest thing. I think they're just going to trade for KD and it'll cost a lot less. They'll be able to be really competitive and maybe even go a couple rounds in the playoffs. But they're also going to keep the number two pick and do it that way would be my prediction.
- [61:46]
Ryan Rosillo
Do you like Katie and San Antonio more than you do Minnesota?
- [61:50]
Bill Simmons
So what's Minnesota giving up in this scenario? Because they're not allowed with the second apron. Plus they're not allowed to do signing trades. Right. They can't like sign Nas Reed and then trade him for Kat kd? I, I, I thought there were restrictions against this stuff. I'm still trying to figure out. It's, it's so punitive to be above. So I know they can trade two guys and get one back. They can patch stuff together. So Randle would have to be in it. So the Suns would have to be excited about Julius Randle, which I'm suspicious of even though he had a mostly good playoffs.
- [62:24]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. And he also has the player option too. So you'd have to figure out what you're doing.
- [62:29]
Bill Simmons
Opt him in. But if I'm him, I'm opting out and trying to be a free agent.
- [62:33]
Ryan Rosillo
Are you?
- [62:34]
Bill Simmons
Well, there's no free agents but there's.
- [62:37]
Ryan Rosillo
Who'S, who's giving him 31 million.
- [62:40]
Bill Simmons
But you're doing sign and trade stuff. I think at this point, yeah, I'm just talking.
- [62:45]
Ryan Rosillo
If he's just totally. I mean, all this stuff would be figured out ahead of time. I like your spurs. I like your Spurs. Kind of like, hey, this is way cheaper. We keep the number two, you're probably going to fall right?
- [62:58]
Bill Simmons
The cell has to be in the trade. I think it's for selling Barnes with a future first, then you call it a day. Durant's got a year left in his contract. He's 37. You're not getting a shitload for him at this point.
- [63:11]
Ryan Rosillo
You bring it Sohan and be like, annoy Beal so he retires.
- [63:19]
Bill Simmons
Bringing Sohan. You signed Thanassis as a free agent and you just have Thanassis just bulldozing into be able during the practices.
- [63:27]
Ryan Rosillo
Like you just your whole job this year you're not going to get a lot of minutes. But we want Lou Dort. You're going to be Lou Dort against Beal every practice all season long. Even in the layup line.
- [63:38]
Bill Simmons
You know, like 40 years ago, I remember reading a Sports Illustrated story. I think it was Chicago. They didn't like Reggie Theus. He was the star of the team. And they just basically benched him and stopped playing him as a way to like humiliate him. There was an article about it. I barely remember the details. Then they ended up trading him, I think to Sacramento. But it got so contentious. They just basically took his playing time away as like a way to be vindictive. And I wonder, is that the only move left for Phoenix? Like he, like Bill just doesn't play. He just sits on the bench, wastes away for two years. But I'm saying, like, you just don't play him. You're like, we expect you to show up on time, suit up. And you just never play. And maybe you like bring them in when. When it's like a 40 point game, you bring them in for like the last two minutes. He has to like stretch and come out like it's all about basically getting to break him. So he waves the no trade clause. It sounds like the makings of an FX series. Breaking Beal.
- [64:38]
Ryan Rosillo
From the mind that brought you Parker Lewis can't lose.
- [64:41]
Bill Simmons
John Landgraaf's really high on it. He loves this idea.
- [64:47]
Ryan Rosillo
There'd be something there. Obviously.
- [64:48]
Bill Simmons
Jordan Pool's Jordan Peels an EP and Jordan Poole. Jordan Pool and Jordan Peele are eps.
- [64:55]
Ryan Rosillo
Sounds like somebody's working on an outline.
- [64:57]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [64:57]
Ryan Rosillo
You know how like any place anyone listening to this, you like, you know who this person is because you've experienced it. But in the times where you have an issue with something at work and you're like, okay, but why? Why am I having to do this? But this guy gets to do this, and then the person will just straight up look at you and go, because that guy's a huge pain in the ass. And if we don't do this, he's gonna be like. And so you're just sitting there going, so you're telling me the lesson in this is that I need to be way more of a pain in the ass.
- [65:27]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [65:28]
Ryan Rosillo
I have to be. So, like, you have to dread me being upset about something so much that I then end up getting my way. And that's not really going to work. Way it works with Beal, man, I don't know if there's anybody that's more comfortable being like, you think you're going to get to me, Right? Do whatever you want. Yeah, I'm good.
- [65:49]
Bill Simmons
It's like those stories they have now, the people torturing the bitcoin guys to try to get their passwords. Beal no trade clause. They just. They're just psychologically torturing. I mean, it's just not breaking. It's like, you're not getting it. Do you want to do. And I wouldn't be surprised if.
- [66:06]
Ryan Rosillo
Give me Sacramento Tracer. Patrick Williams.
- [66:10]
Bill Simmons
Whoa. You. You went indie.
- [66:15]
Ryan Rosillo
It was just. I don't know.
- [66:16]
Bill Simmons
You did Tribeca Film Festival on me.
- [66:18]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Yeah. Chris Ryan's outside with a beanie, smoking a cigarette going, I liked it. Like, ah. I don't think you got it, dude. I don't think you got it, dude. It's good. No, watch it again. Yeah, no, there's some stuff going on I don't think you caught.
- [66:38]
Bill Simmons
Plass Brothers liked it.
- [66:43]
Ryan Rosillo
You didn't like Slacker dude. Then that's why you didn't get it.
- [66:47]
Bill Simmons
Patrick Williams. That's a good one.
- [66:50]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. I was just doing, like, a Chicago Sacramento joke. I have another one later, but I know you have a couple, so. Empty the barrel, young son.
- [66:58]
Bill Simmons
Gianna stays on the Bucks was one of mine, but we already covered that.
- [67:05]
Ryan Rosillo
You don't think I felt like you were hot on the Knicks thing?
- [67:11]
Bill Simmons
The Bucks would. I think. Here's how it happens. Giannis goes to them and says, I've thought about it. I want to be traded to the Knicks. You owe this to me. I wanted the title in 2021. I've been a great buck. I've been a great credit to the city. I've done everything I can do here. I would like to go to New York. And that's how it happens. And then it's like Towns, Bridges, three team trades, some picks, and the Bucks can basically salvage, I don't know, 80 cents on the dollar. I think that's the course. But I think Giannis would have to do that, and I just don't think he's going to do it. I don't think he's wired to do that. I don't see him. I just don't see it. We followed that guy since 2013. I feel like I have a pretty good hand on him. I just don't see it. I think he's more of a batting his eyelashes. Ah, maybe. But I don't see him demanding a trade. And I don't think they're going to trade him unless, A, somebody makes some crazy fucking offer, or B, he goes in and says, you got to trade me to Golden State. You got to trade me the Knicks. But they're going to trade in the team he wants to get. He wants to get traded to, I think would be my one bet. So I think they're going to do right by him, and he'll be smart enough to be like, yeah, I'm not. You know, you don't have to give me away, but send me the right team. Here's. Here's one I have for you. And it's heated up in the last week, so I'm probably, like, two weeks late on this because I felt this way for a while, that I. I feel like Garland. Garland's going to be in play. And I think a lot of people in the league feel this way. And now in the last week, there's been some media people and there's been some buzz about it. There's a couple pieces to this, which is Cleveland, the second apron, the Tax. Like, they have some real money stuff. So if they trade Garland, they have to go down a little bit. I was looking at Brooklyn for him, and that's going to be my. I wouldn't be surprised if. Team with Brooklyn if it was Garland and Okoro. Cam Johnson coming back to the Cavs with the number 7 pick and some other asset, because I think he's worth more than that, but there's something there. And then if you're Brooklyn, you're like, we have. We finally have our guy. This is one of the best 25 guys in the league. He's young. He's going to be his own team. He can be all. How are Halliburton? We're going to build an entire roster around everything that he's good at. And we're going to try to basically do the Halberd in Indiana, and this is our guy. And then if you're Cleveland, it's like, all right, we looked at that Mitchell Garland thing for a while. We can't, we can't pay Mitchell Garland and Mobley. We got to pay two of the three. We get to retool, we get another shooter, we get a draft pick. And I don't know, there's something about that trade that makes sense to me. What are your thoughts?
- [70:02]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, it makes sense. And like, at least Brooklyn feeling like it has something. Although felt like they had something with the way Cam Thomas came out the beginning of this year. I mean, he was, he was lighting it up. Even though he hasn't always been my favorite in the past, I just thought this version of him was better. I don't know, does this Cam, long term make you think they wouldn't be like, hey, let's add a smaller non defensive guard next to him?
- [70:33]
Bill Simmons
Well, you get the seventh pick, too, which I think could be a really good player in this draft.
- [70:38]
Ryan Rosillo
No, I'm talking about the Nets, like your backboards. Garland and Cam Thomas.
- [70:44]
Bill Simmons
Is Cam Thomas on the perfect team, a six man, or am I crazy?
- [70:49]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't think he would agree with you.
- [70:52]
Bill Simmons
It's the Colin Sexton problem, right?
- [70:55]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Yeah, right.
- [70:56]
Bill Simmons
We're doing great.
- [70:57]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Sexton can get you buckets, but you just, you don't want to come on.
- [71:01]
Bill Simmons
In 23 minutes a game, score some points for us.
- [71:06]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, maybe. I, I know what you're saying here. It's like, okay, well, Garland isn't perfect. Well, then who. I mean, he's young, he can shoot and handle. We're talking about somebody who's going to be flirting with a lot of all star appearances throughout his career. Although that's. He probably wouldn't be very good. So, you know, maybe it doesn't make the team because the team isn't good.
- [71:22]
Bill Simmons
But there's not a lot of homes for him because so many teams are already all in with whoever their point guard is. I was going through all the teams and because I was like, man, if Garland's available, there'd be a fucking line. And then you go through all the teams and teams that could actually trade and, and, and it, the list starts to shorten a little faster than you thought. Houston would be another one, right? Houston could, but that, but then that doesn't really help Cleveland from a From a salary cap standpoint, because part of the deal would have to be. They'd have to cut salary in the trade, which is why Brooklyn's one of the only teams that can do that. So I don't hate.
- [72:00]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't hate what you're coming up with at all. So, like, I'm not doing this where you bring up something and then I go, oh, there's all the reasons why it doesn't work, because it's way easier to do it that way. But it's. It's kind of like a face of the franchise thing. Know, a team that thought that they had it figured out to now having a roster that I'll have nights with them where I'm like, who the fuck is that? And at least you would have a guy. You think you can kind of.
- [72:24]
Bill Simmons
You can mold a team around him. I feel like I don't know how good that team would be, but I think conceivably you could do it. Do you have another one?
- [72:32]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. I just don't see how the Sixers take use that draft pick. I think it's a pretty obvious one. It's not based on anything. It's just other than just common sense. Like, maybe. Maybe that front office goes, hey, look, with this team, we're never going to draft this high. And then if you fall in love with somebody. But I think from a development standpoint, unless you're just so good at doing the development stuff when you're not playing in the games. Although with the way the injury history of that team, maybe there's more minutes available that I'm admitting to here, but, like an Ace Bailey just never, you know, never playing. Does that make a ton of sense.
- [73:17]
Bill Simmons
Do you think there's any chance he goes third?
- [73:21]
Ryan Rosillo
I. No, not necessarily.
- [73:24]
Bill Simmons
Like, I don't think he goes third.
- [73:27]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. I don't really understand. Are you saying.
- [73:30]
Bill Simmons
You look at it, if Philly keeps that pick, I just think they would take Edgecomb because he fits the model of the kind of guy that Darrell has been picking for 20 years. I just think he would take him. Maybe Trey Johnson would be the other one. I gotta say, just as. As you know, I. I dive in slowly and I do the YouTube thing, and then I have a whole process, and by the time we get to the draft, I'm. I've done my whole YouTube deep dives and everybody. Trey Johnson gives great YouTube.
- [73:58]
Ryan Rosillo
Oh, yeah.
- [73:59]
Bill Simmons
Wow. First initial foray into the Trey Johnson YouTube universe, I was like, oh, have.
- [74:06]
Ryan Rosillo
You done fears yet?
- [74:08]
Bill Simmons
No. Good. Good YouTube yeah, yeah.
- [74:13]
Ryan Rosillo
It's like when he's at his best and the fact that he like flag reclassified so he's a year younger than he, than he should be with this stuff. When he's at his best with his ability to drive and just you can't stay in front of him. Like, I just don't think there's actually as many people that we say, like, hey, you can't stay in front of this guy. Can't stay in front of this guy. But then there's also people like, there's no help defense. It's not necessarily that hard to get around defenders. And then there's fears on this level of like when, when he gets the angle on you, it's, it's over.
- [74:45]
Bill Simmons
It's a good quality to center in. On in the NBA and with football receivers, like, football receivers are just always wide open because they just get wide open all the time. I'm pretty sure they're going to work in the NFL. You know, for some reason the Patriots decided not to take any of them for 15 years.
- [75:04]
Ryan Rosillo
Do you want to hear something funny about Ace Bailey? This has nothing to do with him necessarily, but what we were talking about before Michael Porter Jr. Andrew Wiggins on ESPN for their draft coverage. Let me double check because it's Jeremy Woo. They did a high end and a low end race. Bailey. And the high end is Michael Porter Jr. The low end is Andrew Wiggins.
- [75:32]
Bill Simmons
Who had a better career than Michael Porter Jr. Andrew Wiggins is going to have 20,000 points and he was the second best player of the Finals team.
- [75:44]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I, I was surprised. Like Andrew Wiggins is the low end to Michael Porter Jr's high end.
- [75:52]
Bill Simmons
I would have flipped that.
- [75:53]
Ryan Rosillo
Or is it because Michael Porter Jr. Although there's an argument to be made that both guys are like so dynamic athletically and yet you were like, should.
- [76:02]
Bill Simmons
They have said Michael Porter Jr. On the right night? What if they didn't need more Michael Porter Jr. Information?
- [76:08]
Ryan Rosillo
What if the ceiling was Aaron Wiggins?
- [76:12]
Bill Simmons
Aaron Wiggins on the right night or Michael.
- [76:15]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah.
- [76:15]
Bill Simmons
Michael Porter Jr. Do you have any more? I wouldn't be surprised. Or should we take a break?
- [76:19]
Ryan Rosillo
No, we can take a break.
- [76:21]
Bill Simmons
This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra, the official beer partner of the NBA. What do I love about the NBA championship? Well, first of all, I love when the Celtics win, but that's not happening this year. But you know what I really love? The drama, the pressure. Everything goes to the highest level. Guys are injured, guys are banged up, guys are hungry. It just brings out the best of everything. And Michelob Ultra is helping you celebrate like a champion with a chance to win your own limited edition championship bottle, just like those gifted to the NBA players during the championship parade. Enter now@michelobulture.com Courtside Champs bottles Michelob Ultra Courtside Victor Solomon Champs Bottle Sweepstakes. No purchase necessary. Open to US residents. 21/Ends June 22, 2025. See official rules@michelobulture.com rules for free entry, prizes and details. Message and data rates may apply. Void where prohibited. This episode is brought to you by McDonald's. All new McCrispy strips new McCrispy strips are here. Chicken made for dipping. Tender, juicy white meat. Chicken with a golden brown peppery breading. This sounds delicious. It's chicken so good it deserves its own sauce. That's right, the Creamy Chili McCrispy Strip Dip. It's creamy, savory and sweet with a little heat. But strips work with any of their sauces. I'm actually still a big fan of the buffalo sauce look. New McCrispy strips and dip sounds fantastic. And it's only at McDonald's. This episode is brought to you by Square. Your favorite neighborhood spots run on Square and if I had a spot, it'd be at a local basketball themed sandwich joint. Then, using tools like Square Dashboard for real time insights, I'd grow the business to make it a nationwide thing. This sounds great, but keep the values rooted in the local neighborhoods. Whether expanding new locations, building a loyal following, or covering cash flow gaps. Square's gotcha. Go to square.com go simmons to learn more s q u a r e.com g o/simmons square. Meet you there. All right, quick NBA draft thing because we're getting close now. We're not far away. I'm going to give you the top eight. Dallas, San Antonio, Philly, Charlotte, Utah, Washington, New Orleans, Brooklyn. So if I told you one of those teams is trading their pick, you would say Philly. If you to bet your money one of those eight teams will trade their pick. Dallas, San Antonio, Philly, Charlotte, Utah, Washington, New Orleans, Brooklyn.
- [79:06]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I mean if I had a bet, I would bet on Philly. I don't know what Utah is going to do because they probably don't want another guard. But what are they supposed to do? Like pass on the better guard for a better positional fit for a team that isn't any good right now? Anyway, so I mentioned this to Zach.
- [79:25]
Bill Simmons
The other night, but it was late and he was groggy. I I'M on high alert with Utah. Austin took that job. He had a quote in the press conference that I thought kind of gave me one of those where he was just like, yeah, we're not tanking anymore. He just said it matter of factly. It's like, all right. And around the league, people seem to feel like marketing isn't not available.
- [79:54]
Ryan Rosillo
I would not be surprised if they got aggressive and said, okay, let's start coming up with something here. Like, let's. Let's figure out how to piece two for one. And if the one isn't a star, at least it's somebody who raises. Who are the five guys that are getting the minutes? Closing basketball game. We have all these little pieces. Cool. But you know, they're kind of like in that spot, remember, where Orlando felt like they were always just the one pick behind in the lottery from getting the guy. That happened a bunch of years there.
- [80:22]
Bill Simmons
It was. It was God's way of getting back at them after the early 90s.
- [80:26]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. It just has felt like Utah for a few years now. It's just like, oh, cool, we're picking here.
- [80:34]
Bill Simmons
I like that fifth pick for them. Now. They're going to get somebody good with that pick. It's like this NBA draft every year. Like, they might end up with the best guy in the entire draft other than flag with the fifth pick. You just never know. I'm going to give you a list. I made this in descending order, so highest quality guy down of possibly available guys, and I'm going to read you the list that I have not sent to you. Just hit the buzzer if it's somebody that you did not think is even possibly available. All right. Giannis Jalen Brown, Garland Towns. Next level. Jaylen Brown. Didn't make you blink.
- [81:20]
Ryan Rosillo
Saying not available?
- [81:23]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, I'm saying possibly available. I think I would qualify Jalen Brown, as much as I hate it and I hope they don't trade him. I don't think he's untouchable with. With the situation the team's in right now, do you?
- [81:36]
Ryan Rosillo
No, not at all. So was I supposed to hit the buzzer then?
- [81:39]
Bill Simmons
No.
- [81:40]
Ryan Rosillo
Okay. That's why I was laying out. I don't have a buzzer just for the Durant marketing.
- [81:45]
Bill Simmons
That's the next level. Both of those guys we think are available. Okay. Next group. Austin Reeves, Trey Murphy.
- [81:56]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't know why Trey Murphy would be available.
- [82:01]
Bill Simmons
Because if you're New Orleans, you're in no man's land. You have. Are you keeping Zion? I guess you are. You're the seventh pick. It's not in the top five. Could you use Trey Murphy in the seventh pick to get somebody awesome? I don't know. Could you try to do your version of the Mikhail Bridges trade with Trey Murphy and just get a shitload of stuff? I don't know. I just. I have them written down and it. So you hit. You're hitting the buzzer on him.
- [82:31]
Ryan Rosillo
I thought he took that step that you're always, like, hoping for with a bunch of these guys. Like, man, he has all the game. He has more handle than he's allowed to show. They had to run so much more of the offense through him. He showed us that he has these skills, and I'd want to. I'd want to see where this goes with him. I thought he was really, like, taking a big step this year, so I wouldn't be in a hurry to be moving on from him.
- [82:56]
Bill Simmons
I'm going to take you a step further. That's the guy I think the spurs should get over Durant, spurs conciliary over Durant. Be like, are we getting Durant? He's 37. Let's give up some of the same stuff we're going to give up for Durant, throw some more picks in it and actually try to get Murphy, who's, you know, hitting his mid-20s, and try to get somebody who's actually more in our timeline who's going to give us a lot of the stuff we would have wanted anyway. And I also think last year, I think his value is lower than it should be because he didn't work out all last year because he didn't know if he was getting the extension or not. Right then he immediately gets hurt. Start of the season didn't start to look like himself until the last part of the year. So you're kind of buying low, weirdly. Even though you and I both know he's good. So I don't. I. To me, that would be the Bridges guy this year. Be like, whoa, they gave up X first round picks for. For Murphy. It's like, yeah, that's what they did anyway. Jared Allen, Herb Jones, I have on that list, Lamelo. Is he possibly available?
- [84:04]
Ryan Rosillo
He has to be possibly available, doesn't he?
- [84:10]
Bill Simmons
I don't know. It's same thing with Atlanta with Trey Young, where they're always like, he's not available.
- [84:16]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, but wasn't he available?
- [84:18]
Bill Simmons
Was he. Was he ever available? Did anybody ever come close to getting Trey Young?
- [84:23]
Ryan Rosillo
No, but wasn't that, like, the Dejante thing? It's like, hey, let's see what the market is for either one of these guys. And, yeah, they end up doing the Dejante deal to try to salvage that deal. That did not work out for Zion. He should be available, you know, And I don't know what to make of the latest round stuff that his name is caught up with here.
- [84:45]
Bill Simmons
Me neither, but.
- [84:47]
Ryan Rosillo
So I just never know what to do with it, other than not have a definitive answer, speculating on something I don't know anything about other than what I've read what everybody else has read. However, having said that, I think they're scared to death that he's going to be, like, healthy in a star somewhere else. And I think the Anthony Davis thing with the Lakers, I think Chris Paul leaving there, I think there's even like a Baron Davis thing where it's. It's like, as soon as we move on from the guy, I don't think it's a smart way to do business because I just would not want to do another season where I have to figure out, like, hey, if Zion's healthy all year is really good, it makes it the second round of the playoffs and has like, comeback player of the year and all this shit. Good for him. We've. We've done it multiple years. Here we are. We are held hostage by this guy because everything's in a holding pattern. And it's not like it feels like, you know, everybody. Every year, everybody comes out and they say the right stuff. He's like, oh, he's doing this. And it's way more about core now, which he understands. And it's like, oh, she has a chef. You know, like, shut the up.
- [85:47]
Bill Simmons
It's similar to C Web in Washington in the 90s where you kept talking yourself into him year after year, and then finally they were like, fuck it. Wes Uncell just came in and was like, fuck it. We're trading him for Mitch Richmond. I can't take it anymore. And if he ends up turning into the guy we think he is, it's just not going to be here. Then, of course, he goes to Sacramento and immediately becomes awesome.
- [86:12]
Ryan Rosillo
That's a good one. I mean, the Weber career is still one of the strangest things ever. I mean, to be taken. Taken number one overall, he could have been.
- [86:22]
Bill Simmons
He could have just played next to Shaq in Orlando for 10 years, and it would have been fascinating. And it never happens. And then he ends up on that awesome Golden State team, and he's only there for a year and bulldozes way out because it was like Don Nelson. Then ends up on this crap Washington team for years. And I. I don't think he acquitted himself that great in a bunch of different ways either. But then he goes to Sacramento and finally finds the right team. Took nine years from the eight years for him to find the right team. I can't remember how many years. All right, all the other guys. It's funny, though, when you lay out all the possibly available guys and you get to, like, you know, Cam Johnson, Norm Powell, Purle, Drew Holiday, Porzingis, Daniel Gafford, Vucevich DeRozan, DeAndre Hunter, RJ Barrett. Like, there's a lot of guys at, like, reasonable contracts. So maybe that's the case for it being like, the craziest summer ever. There's a lot of guys in that, like, 20 to 25 million range that you could just see, you know, becoming musical chairs.
- [87:30]
Ryan Rosillo
Because I saw one of the Toronto things and, you know, I don't know, feels a little overstated. It's like, oh, Masai really likes Giannis. Like, oh, he's the GM that likes Giannis. Oh, no, he's always liked him.
- [87:42]
Bill Simmons
Wanted to draft him, he's always liked him. 2013 was what really wanted him.
- [87:48]
Ryan Rosillo
I love it when it's a guy who's had the belt. At one point, it was understood he's the best player in the world. And then you hear those things like, that GMs always like, that guy. It's like, holy, no wonder he got that job. He's got a. He's going to real eye for. For the special ones. And then I saw the proposal and it's like, so now the Bucks are just the Toronto Raptors, Right? But what's the fucking point of that?
- [88:08]
Bill Simmons
There is no point.
- [88:09]
Ryan Rosillo
There isn't. Although those Raptors, man, they tried to tank and they were. Their spirit was too fierce. That team. Look at how they closed the regular season. The team played hard, had a really great team. Yeah. Because I just really wanted. I wanted to go under because Raptors fans were so fucking annoying. Shocker. When you and I did the preview about them in the summer, right? And we were like, you guys think they're going to be good?
- [88:40]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [88:40]
Ryan Rosillo
And then they went over by like a half a game because at one point it was like a lock under.
- [88:45]
Bill Simmons
Really trying for two straight butts, right?
- [88:48]
Ryan Rosillo
And then they got over because they kind of, they. They played much better. Like, whenever you went in to face Toronto, it's like, they're actually going to play better than you are, because they're just responding and these young dudes are out there balling the whole time. So then it was like this big victory lap and it was like, you know, people that get mad about the over under unless we see like a number 50 and we go, hey, I think they have a 35 win team. It's about the number. And on top of everything else, everything we said about the Raptors and our lack of like thinking that this team was going to figure this whole thing out this year and be like a competitive team in the east, which is what some of the arguments that we were seeing, it's like, Forget over, under 28, 27 and a half, whatever it was, you think they're going to be good.
- [89:30]
Bill Simmons
So wasn't great.
- [89:32]
Ryan Rosillo
And it's expensive. It's an expensive team.
- [89:35]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. Some of the fun stuff for this summer, like, how does Phoenix get out of this giant 20 foot hole they dug for themselves? I don't think they'll be able to, but they're going to try. Can the Lakers either get a center or turn Reeves into a center? Right. If they feel like center.
- [89:55]
Ryan Rosillo
But is it going to be a.
- [89:57]
Bill Simmons
Center that you could play in a game like with the speed and pace that we saw today?
- [90:03]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I mean, it's going to be funny because whoever they get, like, everybody's going to be like awesome here in LA, like, it doesn't matter.
- [90:13]
Bill Simmons
There's a center right now, 57 win ceiling right now.
- [90:16]
Ryan Rosillo
There's a center right now that Lakers fans can't stand or have never seen him play that much. And as soon as he's a Laker, I'm like, fucking, look out, dude, look out.
- [90:26]
Bill Simmons
We got Nick Richards, New Orleans. One way or the other, I think is going to be. That's the team where I'm like, you could tell me any direction and I believe it.
- [90:39]
Ryan Rosillo
Well, I don't know if it's different now post Griff, but Griff was about as like straightforward as ever at the close of last season. So not this one we just finished up, but remember he was talking about.
- [90:50]
Bill Simmons
We got to blow it up.
- [90:51]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. He basically is sitting there going, we can't come back like this. And it's like, all right, well, you know, I guess you made the Dejante deal. But that wasn't really what we were thinking about. You know what, he shouldn't have said that.
- [91:05]
Bill Simmons
But also that'd be like sitting at a poker table and going, I have to go in on a hand soon because I've been sitting Here too long. Not going on any hands at the table's like, okay, good to know.
- [91:17]
Ryan Rosillo
But that might be ownership, though. That very well could be the ownership thing that we always need to factor in. It's like, okay, cool, you're the. You're in charge all this, but you're not. So you can say whatever you want and take trade calls and all this stuff. But, like, if that. If Zion still feels like he's too important to that team and there's this fear of him being somewhere else, I don't know, maybe they run it back.
- [91:37]
Bill Simmons
Again, but, geez, is Cleveland going to toss away last year and say, let's run it back, or are they actually going to do something? I'm watching that. What's essay do? What's San Antonio doing with their number two? What's Boston going to do to shed payroll? And then the only other one we didn't talk about, and I don't really know the answer, is there a way for Denver to go up a level?
- [91:58]
Ryan Rosillo
Sorry.
- [91:59]
Bill Simmons
Keeping. Keeping Yokage, Murray, Gordon and Brown, they're kind of handicapped with the picks they can trade. They kind of have to hope somebody gets excited about Michael Porter Jr. But now you're taking somebody else's problem back, or you're trying to split Porter into two guys. Other than that, not a lot of moves that are possible with the way the salary cap works. And I don't know how they get better.
- [92:24]
Ryan Rosillo
Is this the best you felt about the Nuggets at any point in the season today, right now, with the season over?
- [92:30]
Bill Simmons
It might be. It might be. I think they have to hope somebody gets excited about Porter with two years left on his deal. It's the only thing I can think of.
- [92:42]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Because I had made the mistake of, like, talking about Porter Jr. And going like, why is ownership so enamored with this guy? Just because of where he played in school? And then the reality is he had spent more time with the connection to Missouri, so that was a mistake by me. But then when I thought about it more, it's like, okay, now explain to me why, though, you would be like, we can't trade that guy. We can't.
- [93:06]
Bill Simmons
We've passed that point.
- [93:07]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if. If he's like, it feels like Porter, if you're trading him, it's not for this other piece. It's like, holy shit. Like, I feel totally different now about Denver. It's probably some other guy that has baggage. I mean, this feels a bit like A Gilbert Arenas Rashard Lewis thing.
- [93:27]
Bill Simmons
Right. I was just thinking that it's like a Kuzma and pack oniton for Michael Porter type of trade where you're just gonna what was that trade? So they get two guys back.
- [93:37]
Ryan Rosillo
Although there is the Jokic bump. Like what does Kuzma look like running around next to Jokic?
- [93:46]
Bill Simmons
Docs always like Porter.
- [93:47]
Ryan Rosillo
Probably still expensive. So not great.
- [93:50]
Bill Simmons
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- [95:34]
Ryan Rosillo
Tires Season two.
- [95:36]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, let's hit that. So I didn't really like Tires Season one. Oh, wasn't a huge fan. Watched a couple episodes cause our guy Shane was in it and it just felt like they didn't know what the show was and they didn't know how to use Shane, and it didn't totally work for me. And then a couple people in my life told me, you gotta check out Tyrus season two. They figured it out. I'm like, all right. They figured it out. The show is excellent. I loved it. I loved season two. I did not like season one. I loved season two. And you liked it, too.
- [96:13]
Ryan Rosillo
I love season two. I. Because it really feels like it. The show's going for it. Yeah. In a way where. I don't know. I mean, maybe it's because Gillis is this much more famous a year later.
- [96:28]
Bill Simmons
It seems like he's better on the show, too. Like, they know how to use him now. Correct.
- [96:32]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. I think I like. Well, his characters will. But it's Steve Gervin. Yeah. I don't know if they call him. Like, I was watching his thing with Seth Meyers. So Shane is, like, sitting next to Steve, and Steve's, like, doing all of these things, but he's not trying to be funny. They're just him being nervous, and it makes it that much fucking funnier. And he's, like, stumbling through something, and Seth Meyers is like, what's going on with you? And he's like, oh, it's my first time. He's like, first time talking ever. And then he sees the thing of water and didn't realize it was there, and he got really excited. And what's so funny about it? And I. I think whenever you're thinking about how a TV show fits together, it's like, what's the chemistry going to be with all of these guys? And the joy that Gillis seems to get out of watching Steve be in the show, like, whatever the background is with these two dudes. Like, and when I'll see this stuff with Gillis's podcast, and they talk about Steve, whether he's there or he's not there, then they play these videos of him. It's like their buddy that they just can't stop laughing at. And they've captured that in a really great way on a TV show because there's so many people that would say that their dynamic would be, oh, we're really funny, and it'd just be like, you and us hanging out. They've pulled off the rare success of our workplace as a show. Everybody's walking around thinking that, saying that most everybody's wrong. And look, they're great writers. They're all pretty funny guys. I mean, I think Gillis is. You know, I've been in the tank for him now for a bunch of years. But they, they have something here that I think is very hard to execute. And watching them do interviews together and especially the Seth Meyer stuff, like watching Gillis like dying, laughing at his buddy being late night tv. And he's not laughing because he's killing these one liners. He's laughing because of who this dude is.
- [98:30]
Bill Simmons
Thoroughly enjoys them.
- [98:30]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, right, right.
- [98:32]
Bill Simmons
So sometimes this will happen where they don't totally figure out the show and how everybody works together for a year. Like Parks and Rec was like one of the most famous examples of that. Like they didn't really get the show going until season two. This one just feels like they recalibrated how much Shane should be in it and they basically increased his usage rate. I think they looked at his stats from season one. They're like, wow, he had the fourth highest usage rate on our cast. We gotta, that's it. Every five minutes can just Shane do something. And they've unleashed him. And some of it just feels like he's doing like leftover bits from his standup but in a good way where he's just doing these little, little jags or like these little analogies that he'll use. But yeah, I, I fucking loved it. I was laughing my ass off. And I never laugh when I watch stuff, like very rarely to the point that my daughter was upstairs and kept like, what are you laughing at? What's going on down here? And I was like, I don't know. This tires really good make me laugh. So anyway, kudos to them.
- [99:36]
Ryan Rosillo
It's really good. It's really good. And there's just again, Gillis kind of has that way with me now that Chappelle had. And you know, some of the Will Ferrell stuff that was just funny is like he would find a way or a phrasing. And then when they get their bonus checks to be beginning and Gillis is like, I'm gonna buy a gun. And it's just, it's just hilarious. It's so funny. And I love that Thomas Hayden Church is his dad and he shows up and that first scene and he's trying to get Gillis to hit on the waitress and then she walks away. And Thomas Hayden Church is like, you look ripped. Then he's like, I she heard that. He's like, of course you heard it. You said it so loud. He's like, do you think she's going to forget what I look like just walking away? So like having Gillis's dad be this guy that's actually like pretty successful. You know, there's just adding more and more layers to the whole thing, which.
- [100:26]
Bill Simmons
Is what came Vince Vaughn too is another one where they're. They're just smartly bringing people into the universe quickly and then getting them out.
- [100:33]
Ryan Rosillo
Right. Goose making an appearance. Yeah. I think it's really, really fucking funny.
- [100:39]
Bill Simmons
And his love interest this season, that was one that shouldn't have worked. And they had like great chemistry and it was super funny every time they were in a scene. It's really good. I was also surprised it was 12 episodes because usually, you know, they usually these things are like 8, but they're like 1225 minute episodes. But huge thumbs up from me.
- [101:01]
Ryan Rosillo
Also. We know Gillis is an athlete. I got to be honest with you, when I saw him work in the post.
- [101:11]
Bill Simmons
Oh, when they were playing the horse.
- [101:13]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. But he, he had a little post move in there. I was like, holy shit. Like that's your. That's your 90s four. Like he's. You could just tell immediately. And I'm an evaluator of basketball as you are. We've been doing this a long time.
- [101:27]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [101:28]
Ryan Rosillo
The way he sealed and turned to that strong shoulder, I'm like a. This guy. I wish we had seen more. That's my only critique of season two is I'd like to see more post game.
- [101:38]
Bill Simmons
Season three. Maybe that an intramural football game or some softball. Some tire softball. Like a tires rival. That would be good.
- [101:47]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah.
- [101:47]
Bill Simmons
Because they're gonna be on for a while.
- [101:49]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Because Shane's character, that guy in real life is playing full on tackle football with no insurance on the weekends in some men's league.
- [101:57]
Bill Simmons
Right. Yeah. It was a pleasant surprise. I'm rarely pleasantly surprised anymore because sometimes I'll dive into these like and my expectations are fully where they should be. But in this case I was like, oh, they figured it out. This is great. I'm so glad I clicked onto this. Anything else before we go? You got Tuesday, Thursday this week for you.
- [102:19]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, we actually do have Boochie. So you're home for hockey.
- [102:23]
Bill Simmons
Boochie's coming. Just tell him to do his thing again about McDavid with the no rings thing, because it was really good. I didn't do it justice.
- [102:33]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah, I guess you didn't do a great job with that because I'm still not.
- [102:36]
Bill Simmons
I did like a B minus job.
- [102:41]
Ryan Rosillo
No, I'm excited. I. I really like bocce man. So it's. It's good to have him come on and I'll Lay out quite a bit in that one because I just. Watching Kappen in those first two nights, I was like, dude, is captain good. And then I, like, looked up his stats. I was like, I know he's had a few stops. Something about him I really like.
- [102:59]
Bill Simmons
Did you see Morab last night?
- [103:01]
Ryan Rosillo
I didn't. I didn't. Had a big dinner last.
- [103:05]
Bill Simmons
That's it for Ali. Another ufc. Another UFC superstar has come and gone.
- [103:14]
Ryan Rosillo
So what, he had lost to the guy who kissed him on the back of the head. Right?
- [103:18]
Bill Simmons
Twice.
- [103:19]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Oh, that's Marop. Yeah. My bad. Yeah. I'm not super locked into the USC right now. I don't know what's going on. Maybe I'm less hostile.
- [103:26]
Bill Simmons
I took the Pereira loss hard.
- [103:28]
Ryan Rosillo
I did.
- [103:29]
Bill Simmons
You don't have a guy. Maybe.
- [103:32]
Ryan Rosillo
Maybe because I'm in it, you know? Like, I'm training twice a week, and it's like, I don't.
- [103:37]
Bill Simmons
Are you doing. What are you doing? Muay Thai.
- [103:39]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. So I can't. I can't. Like, maybe that's my. You know, I remember There was this 311 documentary I watched, and they interviewed this guy who may not have had a mailing address, and they were like, what kind of music do you like? He's like, and he had a guitar, I think. And he was like, I don't like anyone. Because they were like, have you ever heard of 311? He's like, no, I don't listen to music. They're like, you don't listen to music, but you have a guitar. Guitar, yeah. And he's like, I don't want to anyone style to influence me. I don't want anyone else. I don't want to listen to anyone else, because then it's going to change what I'm able to do. So maybe that's why I'm not watching as much usc.
- [104:23]
Bill Simmons
Who knows Muay Thai? Like, how. What's the level? Like, where do you need to get to. What are you learning? How have you gotten better, dude? How many months have you been doing it?
- [104:40]
Ryan Rosillo
Maybe two years. But I did it. I did it when I was really young, but it wasn't like, you know, I get wrapped up like a pretzel. I was a very big kid, pretty skinny Bill. And then, you know, I started working with a coach. So it's usually like a few different coaches that come down. And then, you know, you learn moves. You try to get your cardio going. I love learning moves. I love new moves. And then you spar and, you know, every one of the coaches could kill me in two seconds if he wanted to. But it's sometimes harder sparring. Sometimes it's a lot of light sparring. And then sometimes we'll see. Like, we had a big thing that we were working towards is like, let's see if I can last 10 rounds. You know, I think we went three minute rounds.
- [105:23]
Bill Simmons
Jesus.
- [105:24]
Ryan Rosillo
We went three minute rounds, one minute in between. And I had no idea. I was like, I don't know if I'm going to make it. And I. And I did. I probably wouldn't tell the story if I didn't. Oh, yeah. I probably would tell the story if I didn't. Because there was another time where he was like, I'm just gonna punch you as many times as I can to see if you quit. And I was like, oh, I'm not gonna quit. And then I quit in like two minutes. I just couldn't fucking get this guy off of me. So it sucked.
- [105:44]
Bill Simmons
Where did he punch you?
- [105:46]
Ryan Rosillo
Everywhere. But not like, you know, he's not like taking full shots. I've got a mouthpiece in and I've got headgear and, you know, you've got the shin pads and stuff. And, you know, he wasn't like, he wasn't trying to kill me. He was trying to see if he could get me to, like, get so flustered that I had to just say, time out. Time out.
- [106:09]
Bill Simmons
That's what OKC was doing in Indiana today.
- [106:13]
Ryan Rosillo
Perfect bookend. But yeah, it's. It's really just. It's a great exercise. Except for the days where I think, like, I have a torn mcl, the calf tear wasn't a fun day. That hurt a lot. And I'm not like, getting clocked clocked. You know, if I went up to, like, a gym in LA with, like, guys that really do this and are training to be fighters, I get killed. So, you know, I'm not even. It's more like a workout that I like.
- [106:39]
Bill Simmons
We have Working Girl on the Rewatchables tomorrow night. I don't know if you've seen it. Sigourney Weaver, Melanie Griffith, Paris.
- [106:47]
Ryan Rosillo
I remember it. But that's not a rewatchable for me.
- [106:51]
Bill Simmons
It's pretty good.
- [106:51]
Ryan Rosillo
Who's voting on these?
- [106:53]
Bill Simmons
It's a pretty beloved movie. There's a lot of excitement for it.
- [106:57]
Ryan Rosillo
You sent me the to do list. You let me pick a couple, right?
- [107:00]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. You're gonna come on soon. We don't have to say what it is, but we did pick a movie. Should be good. I Think Van's gonna be the third. It seems like Soul Man. No, I don't think it's gonna be Soul Man. I don't know if Soul Man's available on any. Any streaming platforms. That's my new pet peeve of all time are these movies that are just not available anywhere where we have all these streaming platforms. Plus YouTube, plus Pluto and Tubi, all these things. I don't understand how movies can disappear. I should be able to queue up Eddie and the Cruisers or Kiss of Death and be able to do rewatchables. Kiss of Death only came out 30 years ago. It's got major stars in it. How is it just gone?
- [107:46]
Ryan Rosillo
You can't find Kiss of Death anywhere.
- [107:48]
Bill Simmons
Gone.
- [107:50]
Ryan Rosillo
How to watch Kiss of Death?
- [107:51]
Bill Simmons
No, it's. You're not going to find it. Don't. Don't. I do this once a week because I'm waiting for it to come back. So CR and I can. Can do Kiss of Death and it's just not available. There's like some YouTube version of it where it's flipped and it's got, like, weird subtitles and it's just the visuals are way off. It's not available. Nick Cage, one of his great movies, just gone. Who knows?
- [108:13]
Ryan Rosillo
I had it. I had it on because when I worked at the music shop back in high school, upstairs was a video rental place. So they used to just like, be cleaning them out. And every now and then they'd be like, do you want any? And so I took.
- [108:25]
Bill Simmons
You grab Kiss to Death.
- [108:26]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. I took a box of like 40 movies back up to campus. I think it was my sophomore year because I would, like, work over Christmas break or whatever, pick up some hours. You know, it goes.
- [108:35]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [108:36]
Ryan Rosillo
And I had. I was like the go to guy. But people were just shocked. You're like, who the would put together this kind of movie collection? It's like. Like no one. No one did it.
- [108:44]
Bill Simmons
These were all free.
- [108:45]
Ryan Rosillo
Free. They were free. And dudes watch movies. And so I had the air up there, which is probably not on the rewatchables list with Kevin Bacon. And the number of times I watched that movie because you just throw it in to fall asleep. I watched. I watched the first half of that movie probably more than any single human on the face of the planet, like, you ever. Kevin Bacon definitely watched it more than him. It's a bit like the movie tie thing. Why does he have to watch the ufc? I mean, he's living it, right? He knows what it was like on those shooting days. So I don't know. I like to think about that just as an aside. What have I done more than any person in the world? What do you think? Do you get any, like, ones, you wonder? Well, for me, it could be watching the air up there. It's not great. I'll admit it. It's not like you wouldn't introduce me. Hey, it's my buddy Ryan. He's watched the air up there, or at least the first half, more than any other person.
- [109:38]
Bill Simmons
This would be a good podcast. The movie you've watched, you feel like you've watched the most. More than all other humans. I think mine's 48 hours if it's on.
- [109:50]
Ryan Rosillo
See, I believe you.
- [109:51]
Bill Simmons
I just get. I'm like, fine. We're about. We're about to hang out outside the garage overnight. Eddie's going to take a nap in the backseat. I'm in for another half hour here.
- [110:01]
Ryan Rosillo
Do you think anyone's written more words about 90210 than you?
- [110:08]
Bill Simmons
Probably. Yeah, Probably. Like Recappers. I think I wrote. I think. I think I did probably the most Karate Kid stuff. I feel like I had that corner.
- [110:20]
Ryan Rosillo
No. Who's talked about Heat more than you?
- [110:23]
Bill Simmons
Well, CR Is in on that, too, though.
- [110:25]
Ryan Rosillo
Did the studio. Sure. Okay. But do you think the studio spent more time discussing the movie Heat, whether it was to buy the script, then during production, casting, all the stuff that goes into it, than CR and I.
- [110:36]
Bill Simmons
Have spent talking about it?
- [110:38]
Ryan Rosillo
I don't think that's close. I think you beat the studio. So who else is there?
- [110:42]
Bill Simmons
There's another movie that we've spent a lot of time talking about that we've. We've done on the Rewatchables already, but I actually like it more even than when we did it. On the Rewatchables is the Miami Vice 2006 movie with Colin Farrell that's like its own fan club at this point because that movie gets better every single year, and I have no idea why. It's one of the few movies that has improved in quality each year. Now, 2025, I think it's the best I've ever felt about it. You can't say that about a lot of movies where each year that passes, you feel better about the movie. I think that's number one for me. I don't know if you watched it recently.
- [111:23]
Ryan Rosillo
I haven't. I was trying.
- [111:24]
Bill Simmons
You're kind of no selling me.
- [111:26]
Ryan Rosillo
I know. I'm sorry. I wanted to look up the Rotten Tomatoes for the air up there, so.
- [111:30]
Bill Simmons
I wasn't what was it?
- [111:31]
Ryan Rosillo
I know, but I wasn't being a very good co host. That's on. I blame myself.
- [111:35]
Bill Simmons
Looking up something you get you hate.
- [111:37]
Ryan Rosillo
When I look up stuff on the pod every now and then when you start throwing around second apron, I'm like, let me. Let me make sure. But it's lost cause. And then I get a text from Bobby Marks, like, the next day going, here's why that wouldn't work.
- [111:47]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, Bobby Marks, I think he's just made it less fun for the rest of us because he's so on it in every single aspect of the cap. We can't compete.
- [111:58]
Ryan Rosillo
You know what I mean? It's made me think about, like, getting back to understanding all of it again, because.
- [112:03]
Bill Simmons
But even if you tried to do it, you would never be close to the level he's already at.
- [112:08]
Ryan Rosillo
It's daunting. No, no, it is very daunting. And I think the problem is we could always default to, like, third team in it. Like, that was my favorite move. I know you loved it too. Like, does that work? You'd be like, hey, third team it, dude. Must be somebody there. And now it's like, you guys can't third team it the way you used to, buddy.
- [112:25]
Bill Simmons
Bobby Marks just comes in like, Will Hunting, and we're like, the professor. And he said, you know how easy this is for me? It's a joke. That's what this is. Your third team in it. Fuck you. It is amazing. The team. The team gets knocked out. Bobby Marks has a tweet with this elaborate snapshot of their entire cap situation for the summer that has all these different categories, just like, uncle. I feel stupid even talking about it now. He's really good.
- [112:58]
Ryan Rosillo
Yeah. Yeah, He's. He sent me a couple cleanups where he was like, hey, the thing you guys are talking about, it can't happen. We're like, I don't know that I care anymore, Bobby. I used to care.
- [113:08]
Bill Simmons
Ruined it.
- [113:08]
Ryan Rosillo
I used to care, and now I don't know that I do, because I know when we're. I mean, whenever I go on the trade machine now, it never works.
- [113:18]
Bill Simmons
We never do a favor. What will you give the Miami Vice movie? Just give it a. Give it a whirl.
- [113:25]
Ryan Rosillo
Nobody loves Colin Farrell.
- [113:27]
Bill Simmons
Just give it a test drive. It's been a while. Just give it a test drive.
- [113:31]
Ryan Rosillo
Just try and even give it a test. I didn't even look at it. I. I wouldn't watch that movie. That's not my kind of movie.
- [113:36]
Bill Simmons
No. Give it a test drive. All right, we're gonna say goodbye to our audience on YouTube. We're gonna thank Cahal and Eduardo. I'm gonna remind people Rewatchable is coming with with Working Girl on Monday night. Rasula did not approve of that choice, but Rosola will be on at some point pretty soon on the rewatchables. And then Roso has Tuesday Thursday podcasts, and we'll see how long the finals goes. Good to see you, Rossillo.
- [113:59]
Ryan Rosillo
Thanks, Bill.
- [114:00]
Bill Simmons
Thanks, man. Must be 21 plus in president select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + in President D.C. gambling problem. Call 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com, call 1-887-89-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-550 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny.