The Bill Simmons Podcast

“So Long, Rodgers, Plus a Football History Deep Dive With Cousin Sal and Chuck Klosterman”

Date: January 13, 2026
Host: Bill Simmons
Guests: Cousin Sal, Chuck Klosterman

Brief Overview

This episode opens with Bill and Cousin Sal breaking down the end of Aaron Rodgers’ career, the aftermath of the Steelers–Texans playoff game, and the upcoming NFL playoff matchups. In the second half, Simmons welcomes author Chuck Klosterman to reflect on a century of football—its unique place in American culture, why it dominates television, and where the sport might be headed as his new book "Football" hits shelves. The conversation dives into everything from football’s hyper-televised nature to the evolution and potential decline of sports in America.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Steelers–Texans Recap & The End of the Rodgers Era

• Rodgers’ Last Stand:
  • Simmons and Sal reflect on what could be Aaron Rodgers' final game—a playoff exit highlighted by a pick-six. Both agree the magic/“voodoo” that allowed the Steelers to survive all year ran out.
  • Memorable Quote [02:55; Sal]:
    “And I hate Aaron Rodgers. And he did was bad. He was like 4.8 yards per attempt or something and throwing tantrums on the sideline, all that stuff. But that defense was, I mean, he didn't have it... he was like in a dunk tank for three hours.”
• Houston’s Defense Overhyped?:
  • Caution against overreacting to a single dominant defensive performance; Simmons insists next week “they're not turning into the 2000 Ravens.”
• Injury & Scheduling Impact:
  • Both discuss the impact of short rest on concussion protocol (Nico Collins on Houston, Patriots’ Gonzalez) and the NFL’s playoff scheduling choices:
    Sal [07:15]: “The difference between a six or seven day rest could mean the world could mean if a guy's out for the year or not...”

2. The Tomlin/Rodgers Future Odds Game

• Playful speculation on odds for Mike Tomlin and Rodgers returning to Pittsburgh (“Is it more likely both return? Neither?”), with Simmons favoring Tomlin’s return and Sal seeing a house-cleaning as more likely.
  • Bill [11:28]: “If you're really thinking about it, if you're him, you're going back to a night like tonight where you're just... under siege. You're like. You ever see that movie The Grey with Liam Neeson?... That's kind of how I felt with Rodgers in the fourth quarter. I had wolves come. Just come eat me alive.”
• Potential new jobs for Tomlin discussed, with Atlanta and even Baltimore floated as intriguing coaching fits.

3. Patriots, Texans, and Playoff Matchups

• Simmons reviews the strengths and weaknesses of both teams going into next weekend—Houston’s erratic run game and New England’s WRs "not open yesterday,” possibly missing Collins again.
• Patriots’ resurgent defense under Vrabel—team is embracing “Big Dogs” mentality:
  • Bill [23:10]: “[Vrabel] looked at Milt Williams and Barmar, the two big nose tackles... It's January. You know what January means? Big dogs. It's time for them to show up and kind of stared those guys down…”

4. Quarterback Debates & the Ever-shifting QB Pyramid

• Sal and Bill riff on Ryan Clark’s ESPN hot take that rookie Caleb Williams is a “top 5 quarterback” already.
  • Bill [24:28]: “Ryan Clark said on ESPN today that Caleb Williams was now a top five quarterback in the league... Top five seemed strong.”
• Pondering the ranking: Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, Burrow, May, Caleb? Everyone doubts if Caleb belongs so high, but acknowledge the league’s volatility.

5. Playoff Scheduling & Broadcasts

• Detailed talk about the TV schedule, network assignments, and the impact of condensed playoff rest.
• The subtleties of NFL playoff time slots and which games get “buried” (the “Shakies game” phenomenon).

Football as American Monoculture: A Deep Dive with Chuck Klosterman

1. Why Football? Why Now?

• Klosterman’s new book "Football" looks at the unique social, cultural, and technological conditions that enabled football to become “the monoculture” in America.
  • Chuck [39:11]: “The only elements of the monoculture left in the United States are football and Taylor Swift, I guess, like, that's really it.”

2. The TV-Football Marriage

• “Football was made for TV by accident”: The sport’s rhythm of short, intense bursts allows for analysis and engagement in ways other sports do not.
  • Chuck [51:18]: “An incredible coincidence happened, is that football is better experienced through television... And this is why football became the thing that it did.”
  • 11 minutes of actual action in 3+ hour games isn’t a bug, it’s part of the secret sauce facilitating discourse, replays, betting, and “the feeling you’re smarter than the coaches.”

3. Past, Present, Future—Will Football Diminish?

• Chuck theorizes that football’s overwhelming popularity is historically contingent, and nothing lasts:
  • [44:43]: “In 50 years or 100 years, the world's going to be different, populated by different people. And football...will not be the center of the world as it is now.”
• Simmons pushes back, noting revenue and adaptation. Klosterman predicts commercial advertising’s eventual demise, and believes cultural relevance will wane as real-life connection to playing football evaporates.

4. The Decline of Other Sports as Parallels

• Comparison to horse racing and boxing: Once pillars of sports culture, they faded as the public’s relationship to them became more distant.
  • Chuck [72:06]: “There was a time when we had a relationship to horses and there's a time when we did not. So we were watching something now that's alien.”

5. College Sports Chaos (and Relegation)

• Explosive conversation on how name, image, and likeness (NIL) and transfer portal culture have destabilized college football and basketball.
  • Chuck [78:41]: "It's not even poorly governed. It's ungoverned. It's a wild west."
• Bill floats a European relegation model as a possible solution.

6. The GOAT Conversation: Legacy & Innovation

• Klosterman’s “GOAT Ground Zero” theory: True greatness is the earliest version of greatness whose influence survives.
  • Chuck [94:22]: “When I'm thinking...what is the greatest whatever in anything, any subject, what I'm trying to do is think of what is the earliest incarnation of greatness that's still present in the modern version.”
  • In football: Jim Thorpe. In baseball: Babe Ruth. In basketball: Chuck sides with Wilt; Bill with Russell.

7. Coaches—the Unchanging Archetype

• Football’s “coach” role remains mythic and central even as the game evolves, the only constant in an otherwise changing sport.
  • Chuck [106:55]: “The caricature of the football coach never changes...The way a football coach is presented in a sports movie does not waver.”

8. Human Error, Replay, and Nostalgia

• Debate over the merits of replay; Klosterman argues for the value of human error in sports, reminiscing about infamous calls (e.g., Mike Renfro catch).
  • Chuck [124:40]: “Human error is part of it. In the same way, it would be like...it just happens sometimes.”

9. Football’s Weather & the Power of Context

• Weather as a uniquely football experience (“the blizzard game” effect), not replicated in other sports.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• Sal [04:01]: "He was like in a dunk tank for three hours...the strip sack was going to happen one way or another."
• Bill [11:28]: “You ever see that movie The Grey with Liam Neeson?...I felt with Rogers in the fourth quarter...like, come get me wolves.”
• Chuck [39:11]: "The only elements of the monoculture left in the United States are football and Taylor Swift, I guess, like, that's really it."
• Chuck [51:18]: "Football is better experienced through television and television...the best thing it can do is show you a football game."
• Chuck [94:22]: “…the earliest incarnation of greatness that's still present in the modern version.”
• Bill [103:46]: On Moss: “There was something. He passed the stadium test too. If you went to actually see him in a game, it was unforgettable to just watch him run.”
• Chuck [124:40]: “Human error is part of it...in the same way, it would be like...it just happens sometimes.”

Important Segment Timestamps

• 02:55–14:15: Rodgers/Steelers–Texans breakdown; playoff fallout
• 26:09–32:36: Playoff lines guessing, QB pyramid, "top 5" QB debate
• 36:54–46:57: Klosterman discusses his new football book; football as TV monoculture
• 54:54–62:39: Football vs. other sports (baseball’s statistical revolution, the 11-minute rule, hypnotic vs. cognitive sports)
• 72:06–91:56: The collapse of horse racing/boxing, the transformation of college sports (NIL, transfer portal)
• 92:58–98:46: Football’s GOAT, ground zero greatness (Thorpe, Russell, Wilt)
• 106:55–111:56: Coaching archetypes, their media and cultural significance

Tone & Style

The conversation is classic Simmons: irreverent, deeply knowledgeable, nostalgic, and tinged with both generational pride and ambivalence about the future of American sports. Klosterman brings his typically meta, reflective tone, making the debate as much about how we think about football as about the on-field product itself. Cousin Sal supplies the familiar gambler’s humor and cynicism.

For Newcomers

This episode offers a masterclass in modern sports debate. Football is not just a sport to this group; it's the lens through which they see American culture, technology, and change. Fans of the game—and of American pop culture at large—will find both trivia and big ideas here, all delivered in the accessible, bantering style that defines The BS Podcast.

(Note: Transcript ads, intros, outros, and non-content sections omitted in this summary.)