Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo

Summary

The Bill Simmons Podcast: Detailed Episode Summary

Episode Title: Talking NBA, March Madness, JuJu, MLB and 'The Bachelor' With Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, and Anthony Dabbundo
Release Date: March 25, 2025
Guests: Callie Curry, Tate Frazier, J. Kyle Mann, Anthony Dabbundo

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1. NBA Insights: Charlotte Hornets and Coaching Dynamics

Discussion Points:

• Charlotte Hornets' Struggles: Callie Curry discusses the challenging season for the Charlotte Hornets, highlighting a barrage of injuries that derailed their playoff aspirations.
• Seth Curry's Coaching Style: Emphasis on Seth Curry’s role as a veteran coach mentoring a young and inexperienced team, fostering a positive environment despite setbacks.
• Team Dynamics and Leadership: The integration of veteran players like Charles Lee and their positive influence on team morale.

Notable Quotes:

• Callie Curry: "I have never seen a team have more injuries. It's like player after player after player." [03:03]
• Bill Simmons: "Seth’s whole life is in basketball. It's shocking when you're around him." [08:06]
• Callie Curry: "He really, really likes his team and I think that makes a huge difference." [05:07]

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2. The Bachelor Franchise: Current State and Potential Revamps

Discussion Points:

• Franchise Decline: Callie Curry critiques the aging format of "The Bachelor," labeling it an "expired franchise" struggling to maintain viewer interest.
• Suggestions for Revitalization: Proposes shifting focus to "Bachelor in Paradise" due to its higher success rates and more dynamic interactions, likening it to globally successful shows like "Love Island."
• Celebrity Involvement Ideas: Discusses the potential of featuring celebrities or athletes (e.g., Sonya Curry) to rejuvenate the series and attract new audiences.

Notable Quotes:

• Callie Curry: "The Bachelor feels like it's out of the 1980s at this point." [24:28]
• Bill Simmons: "It's the most uncon... nobody would do this anymore." [34:58]
• Callie Curry: "I think Bachelor in Paradise could be great." [27:19]

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3. March Madness and the Evolution of College Basketball

Discussion Points:

• Tournament Dynamics: Tate Frazier and Kyle Mann analyze the lack of "Cinderella" teams, attributing it to increased player movement and the dominance of top seeds.
• Calipari’s BYU Team: Highlighting John Calipari’s impact on BYU, turning them into a formidable 10-seed team with potential Final Four prospects.
• Impact of NIL and Transfer Portal: Exploring how Name, Image, and Likeness (NIL) deals and the transfer portal have altered team compositions and competitive balance.

Notable Quotes:

• Tate Frazier: "We're excited about Calipari's FU energy. This team has the talent of a two seed." [40:47]
• Kyle Mann: "Will Wade is poking the bear as much as he can." [46:34]
• Callie Curry: "I think there are really smart teams, there are really good teams." [13:32]

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4. MLB Predictions and Betting Strategies

Discussion Points:

• Boston Red Sox Revival: Anthony DeBundo presents a case for betting on the Red Sox, citing strategic shifts away from reliance on fastballs and defensive improvements.
• Yankees' Inconsistent Performance: Analysis of the Yankees’ injury woes and their impact on the team's playoff prospects.
• Sacramento Athletics Upside: Highlighting the Athletics' move to Sacramento and their improved offensive lineup as a key betting opportunity.
• MVP and Player Breakouts: Discussion on Shohei Ohtani’s MVP chances and potential breakout performances from MLB prospects.

Notable Quotes:

• Anthony DeBundo: "Boston is on the forefront of something new with their focus on sinkers and cutters." [92:30]
• Bill Simmons: "Duke is going to win the national championship, but watch out for Houston." [55:52]
• Anthony DeBundo: "The Snakes are alive to make the playoffs and maybe pull an upset or two." [99:55]

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5. Closing Discussions and Final Predictions

Discussion Points:

• Final Four and Championship Picks: Tate Frazier and Kyle Mann advocate for Duke’s dominance in the national championship, with Houston as a significant contender.
• MLB Season Outlook: DeBundo emphasizes the Red Sox and Athletics as primary bets, while expressing skepticism about the Yankees’ ability to win the AL East given their current challenges.
• Future of College Sports: Conversations touch on the sustainability of current trends in college basketball and baseball, pondering potential regulations and structural changes.

Notable Quotes:

• Tate Frazier: "I like the Flintstone kids. Jace Richardson, Jason Richardson's son, is starring for Michigan State." [69:59]
• Kyle Mann: "Cooper Flag is the headline. Cooper Flag is the intelligent choice." [73:05]
• Bill Simmons: "I'm counting on Kelly Flagg to stick to her guns. The Celtics, a team that she loves very much." [76:18]

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Conclusions and Takeaways

The episode provides an in-depth analysis of various sports topics, blending expert opinions with actionable betting insights. Key highlights include:

• NBA: The Charlotte Hornets face significant challenges due to injuries, but leadership from Seth Curry and veteran players like Charles Lee offers some hope for future seasons.
• Reality TV: "The Bachelor" franchise is deemed outdated, with suggestions to revitalize it through shows like "Bachelor in Paradise" or incorporating celebrity participants.
• College Basketball: The March Madness landscape has shifted, with top-seeded teams maintaining dominance and the absence of unexpected underdog victories. Calipari’s BYU is a standout team with potential to disrupt traditional power structures.
• MLB: The Boston Red Sox emerge as a compelling bet due to strategic changes and defensive improvements, while the Sacramento Athletics and Yankees present varied prospects based on current roster dynamics and injury impacts.

Final Quote:

• Bill Simmons: "I think Duke is going to win the national championship, but watch out for Houston." [55:52]

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This episode serves as a comprehensive guide for sports enthusiasts, offering expert insights across multiple sports domains and providing listeners with informed perspectives for their betting strategies.

Transcript

[Bill Simmons]

You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel Sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA. We have these fun little Tuesday Friday player performance stuff. We have same game parlays. We have picks for me sometimes and boosts and all kinds of fun things. Get ready in the playoffs. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today to get in on the action. And by the way, the Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit theringer.com RG to learn more. Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21/president select states gaming problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com hey Boston, we are coming to do a live sold out rewatchable show on Thursday and then the Coolidge Corner Film Festival. All of our favorite Boston heist movies that whole weekend. So you can check it out theringer.com events get tickets there. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network put up a new rewatchables. Last night we did Blue Chips was actually one we had kind of talked about before eight years ago before we had the category. So we brought it back for the Nil era. It was me and Van Lathan and Chris Ryan. You can check that out. You can also check out the Prestige TV podcast, White Lotus episode six. We broke that down as well. Speaking of the Prestige TV pod, me and Sean Fantasy and Joanna Robinson. On Wednesday we're going to break down the first couple episodes of the studio Seth Rogen's new Hollywood show, which we were all really intrigued by. So that is coming on Prestige as well. And don't forget about FanDuel Sportsbook where player performance doubles every Tuesday, all the college basketball stuff. And then we have a bunch of bunch of bets we're going to talk about not just for college basketball but for the mlb. Later we have Tay Frazier and Kyle Mann. Coming up. We're going to talk big picture about March Madness. What we have coming, things we've noticed, favorite things. Then I asked Anthony de Bundo to come on and talk about his five favorite MLB bets heading into a new season. And then last but not least, our old friend Cali Curry is going to come on to talk about the Bachelor franchise, which is in complete disarray. What's going to happen to it? So yeah, college basketball, baseball, the Bachelor. You're not getting this anywhere else. It's all next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, Callie Curry is here. You can hear her on the Ring of reality TV podcast. I haven't talked to you since you've lived in Charlotte for the year.

[Callie Curry]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

But, you know, it hasn't been a great season. But what would have been your Charlotte NBA impressions?

[Callie Curry]

Bill, I just wanted to. I want to tell everyone, including the listeners, that before the season started, you texted me and said, am I crazy for thinking that Charlotte is a playoff team?

[Bill Simmons]

I had a lot of injuries.

[Callie Curry]

And I said, no, you're not crazy. I think they're going to be better than people think this year. Yeah. They have a chance to get the number one pick if people are not aware. So it didn't go the way that we thought, But I have never seen a team have more injuries. It's like player after player after player.

[Bill Simmons]

After player, and that's it. Sometimes you just have the bad juju, and then that's how it goes.

[Callie Curry]

Yeah. Also, you know, they're super young. I just. We'll see what it looks like next year, But I do think that they have good pieces.

[Bill Simmons]

So is Seth. He's officially in his, like, wise vet stage of his career. That's where we've landed.

[Callie Curry]

Yeah. A hundred percent. Like.

[Bill Simmons]

Like just taking young guys under his wing and telling them about the league.

[Callie Curry]

Yeah. And, you know, just like, this is, you know, how things work on most other teams. He's the oldest by a lot. He does not know the music played in the locker room for sure.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, he got to that stage.

[Callie Curry]

Yeah. Like a hundred. I mean, the average age on this team has to be, like, maybe 23, 24. Jesus, they're so young. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, that.

[Callie Curry]

He loves it. And he loves Charles Lee. Absolutely loves. I don't know anyone that doesn't like Charles Lee, to be honest with you. Loves Charles Lee. Loves the new management. Loves, like, he's enjoying it. He likes being back home. So he's super happy.

[Bill Simmons]

The Charles Lee piece when he left the Celtics, just unanimous approval rating. Right. And he went there, and I told you that I was like, everybody in Boston absolutely fucking loves this guy. And then it seems the same thing's happening there. Losing.

[Callie Curry]

Yeah. Which is. I mean, obviously it sucks to lose. And going from Boston to Charlotte is probably huge. And even before that, he was in Milwaukee, so he's done, like, a lot of winning and been on a lot of winning teams. And so this is probably a huge adjustment for him, but he's, like, super positive. So nice. Him and his wife, they're. They're awesome.

[Bill Simmons]

What? Give me the doc. Scouting report. My old podcast partner who ditched me Ditched espn, went back to coaching the Bucks. I've been studying his faces and just seeing like he seems pretty happy with the team. Trying not to text him too much, but he seems okay with everything.

[Callie Curry]

Uh, I have never or maybe not not never, but in a very long time have seen him like happy when things aren't going well. And it's not that like he's, you know, okay with it, but he feels like there's things that can be done to change things. He absolutely. Actually the other day I asked him, we were talking about like people getting on people's nerves and I was like, I mean listen, like every coach is going to have players that get on his nerves. And he was like, I honestly like every guy on this team. Like, he really, really likes his team and I think that makes a huge difference. And you probably. Obviously he's been doing it for so long, but the longer he's done it and had to be around a ton of different personalities and different organizations, I think he's just really happy to coach players that he like really gets along with, even though it's not perfect.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I got the sense that it's been refreshing for him to be around pro anti no agenda pros basically just people do their job and all like each other.

[Callie Curry]

Yes. And everyone's like respectful. Everyone. Like the stars on that team kind of act like every other player. Like they don't. They have no desire to be treated like significantly different. Which I remember Austin saying that he played with like a superstar and was saying how he's never late, he like does what every other person is doing, like doesn't ask for any special treatment. And I was like, yeah, but like, you know, guys are like used to the stars doing that. But I think when a star doesn't do that, it's like huge for the rest of your team.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Well, that's like your brother in law is the ultimate example of that.

[Kyle Mann]

Right.

[Bill Simmons]

That's like every time somebody joins the warriors and it just happened with Jimmy Butler. There was, there was the big story about him talking about Steph. Like, I can't believe what an amazing teammate he is and all he wants to do is win and he's the first guy there and blah, blah, blah. But it's the recurring theme with him.

[Callie Curry]

Yeah, I think that that's less normal with especially the level that Stefan's at. Like you hit the jackpot if you have someone like that on your team.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that seems to be the fulfilling thing. I think that's why Steve Kerr is Like, I'm never leaving. As long as he's here, I am just staying.

[Callie Curry]

Why would you.

[Bill Simmons]

Were you worried about him a couple months ago before they made that trade? Just like, where. Because as a longtime Steph fan and Steph watcher, he started to get that body language look of the weight of world is on my shoulders and I'm too old to be able to carry this.

[Callie Curry]

No, I wouldn't say that I was worried about Stefan because Stefan's whole life is in basketball. Like, it's shocking when you're around him, but he really does prioritize his family, and he's very happy off the court. It's just happened to be that he's one of the best shooters of all time. And I'm not saying he doesn't work. He works insanely hard, but basketball's not his entire life. So I was not worried about him at all. Do I think that he just turned 37 yesterday or a week ago? Do I think that he's probably like, what's the plan? I'm sure. But I can tell you, I just saw him yesterday, couldn't be happier. Very happy with the way things are going right now.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, they got the. It's like the new guy buzz. Sometimes a TV show will have this when the new person joins the TV show and it's like, oh, good season of the show, New energy.

[Callie Curry]

And it's working out better than I thought it would, to be honest.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I was way more glass half full on it because I really thought Jimmy still had his fastball and was just kind of had it in his back pocket waiting for the right situation. But, you know, it's. The Draymond Jimmy piece was going to be the fun part, but it seems like they really clicked.

[Callie Curry]

So far, they seem to be doing just fine. I. What's crazy to me is, like, what. What seed will they end up being? Right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Callie Curry]

Like, I would not want them in a first round if I've won. Like, if they end up, like, let's say they end up like a five seed, six seed. Like, that sucks for whoever the third seed is.

[Bill Simmons]

No question.

[Callie Curry]

Won the whole year and you get them the first round.

[Bill Simmons]

I felt that way. I went to the Clippers OKC game on Sunday, and now Kawhi's healthy, and who knows how long that's going to last. But he looks really, really good. And I was sitting there going, this would be a crazy eight seed, this team. They have two, like, hall of Fame scorers slash players.

[Callie Curry]

Zubots is a, like, center out of his mind.

[Bill Simmons]

They have role guys all over the place. They have Norm Powell who's like instant offense. They have one of the best coaching staffs and they have. They actually have a home court advantage finally, which is the craziest piece.

[Callie Curry]

Yeah. And two coaches won a champion championship. Kawhi's won championships. Like, I wouldn't want to draw them either. And it sucks that the young teams are at the top because they're going to end up with one of these veteran teams that have been there and done it before.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Callie Curry]

So people might think I'm crazy, but I think the same thing about the Suns. I'm like, if the Suns happen to draw okc, is it impossible for them to be able to pull it off? I don't think so.

[Bill Simmons]

There's. There's signs of life.

[Callie Curry]

There is signs of life.

[Bill Simmons]

Signs of. It's like they were. They were in the. What do they put the hole where the coffin goes? They were in there and the dirt was starting and then all of a sudden Katie was like, hey, yeah.

[Callie Curry]

And am I surprised that Katie all of a sudden is scoring 40 points a night? No, I'm not that surprised. You know what I mean? It's just like, can I see that happening again during the playoffs and it be a tough matchup for an OKC or a Houston? Yeah, that sucks. As your eight seed.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. I still feel pretty good about.

[Callie Curry]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Seeing them over the Clippers, but it's a good point. Like, the fact that they're the nine seed is nuts. Cause you think about like the seven, eight, nine teams in the. In the east and it's a little bit of a drop off once you get past Detroit.

[Callie Curry]

Yeah. Although the Magic are looking better now too, so.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, a little bit better. I have a random Charlotte question, so. So Seth, your husband is on a team that is like the way station stop on the schedule because they're not having a good season. Right. You're on the east coast trip. A couple of these teams are in the lottery. So when these teams come in, it's kind of like it's a no win situation for the other team. They're supposed to win. You might rest a couple guys and that's just kind of been the whole season. What's it like to just go to the games when you're rooting for the team? That's kind of in that weird spot.

[Callie Curry]

1. I would say the fans are better than you'd think for where they are. Yeah. I've been to some other arenas when their Team is about the same place as Charlotte is. And it's, like, awful to go to those games. If the game is tight, the fans are up and cheering and they're essentially playing for nothing right now. Right. So you wouldn't think that fans would care that much. Um, they did just redo the arena, so it's nicer because of the games. Yeah. Um, but it is weird. Like, the Knicks played everyone. Obviously, Jalen Brunson's out and they won by 20 because of what you're saying. Like, I'm sure the Knicks rolled in their, like, automatic dub, but Charlotte's whole team is like a bunch of, like, 19 year olds that have all the energy in the world. So if they get up and you're not taking them seriously, like, they. They will steal a win. Like, they've beat teams that you're like, how. How are they beating these teams? And then they'll lose to the Wizards.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. They're feisty offensively.

[Callie Curry]

Yeah. You don't know what you're going to get. And if Lamelo was playing and hitting the most outrageous shots in the world, like, it is fun. And Miles Bridges post playoffs has been amazing.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Post All Star break. Yeah.

[Callie Curry]

Oh, yeah. Post All Star. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

So is Lamelo, is he as talented as you thought he was or is he even more talented?

[Callie Curry]

I think he's way more talented than I thought he was before we got here. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

What is it specifically?

[Callie Curry]

It's hard. His offense is like, the things that he does, the shots that he makes that look like these are circus shots, but he makes a decent percentage of them. So it's kind of like, you, you gotta let him have it, I guess. And he can see things. Like, he is so talented. I'm hoping that everyone gets healthy and next season they have a chance. Because I'd love to see him on a good team. I don't like to judge that talented of a player. People will be like, oh, but the team's always bad. I'm like, but, yeah, that's not his fault. What is he supposed to do? So I'm interested to see what he would look like on a good team, because he is everything and more than you think he's capable of it. I think Brandon Miller is better than people think, too.

[Bill Simmons]

Well. And then unfortunately, he just got hurt again. But you also had that weird. Charlotte had that weird trade where they made the trade. Have you ever seen a situation like that before?

[Callie Curry]

Trade for the Lakers. I think Mark is really good.

[Bill Simmons]

Interesting. Except. Go, go. Let's hear it.

[Callie Curry]

I think Mark is super talented. I think in the west, to have more depth for the Lakers and size would have been great. I think that they were just worried about the longevity of it. He's been hurt a lot. It's really strange to me to fail a physical when he's capable of playing that day. Like, he could have played in the game.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, also, these teams all. They get the preliminary medical stuff, so it's not like there's a ton of surprises. I. I genuinely think for some reason, they got buyers remorse and got scared and backed out.

[Callie Curry]

I think Mark is so good. I think he would have helped the Lakers an enormous amount. He's young and huge. He's huge in person. And I'm just like, wouldn't you want that in the West?

[Bill Simmons]

So you were surprised when you heard about the trade. You're like, why are we trading him?

[Callie Curry]

Shocked. I mean, I guess it makes sense for, you know, the Hornets to get as much as they can. They can get. But I. If you would have told me, who would be off the table. I thought Mark was one of those people. Wow. And then for the Lakers to send him back, I mean, that is the weirdest. I've never seen that before.

[Bill Simmons]

It hasn't happened in, like, I don't know, 16 years. Then connect comes back and he's like, hey, good to see you again.

[Callie Curry]

It's so awkward, so weird. I also think Connect's great too. So, I mean, like, it just depends on what you want for your team. But I feel like the size for the Lakers would have been. They're already, like, enormous. Adding a 7:2 guy, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, they really need him. Yeah, I went to the game. I went to the Bulls game Saturday night, and they're. They're just. It's so clear. They're one big guy short. Like, they're playing Rui at backup center. And they, you know.

[Callie Curry]

Yeah. And. And Mark, like, actually has, like, footwork and offense. He's. He's like. He could have provided a boost for them, especially in the playoffs. Um, but I guess, like, you know, obviously they don't know him. They haven't had him. They know Connect. They know what he can give them. So.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Wait, we gotta talk before we dig. You really came out and talked to Bachelor, but we just did 15 minutes on NBA juju, though. Going down. Last night was such. Just an all time, all time. Oh, no. I was so bummed out.

[Callie Curry]

I haven't been that sad over an injury in a long time.

[Bill Simmons]

It was just a gut punch. Cause now she misses next year, too.

[Callie Curry]

I know.

[Bill Simmons]

It's just. That's, like, at least a 15 month injury. I just couldn't believe it. And at the same time, like, I would always. I would watch her, and she was so violent with how she played. Like, the torque she put on her legs and I mean, you know, this. The. The Just like, the ACL stuff with female athletes is so scary to begin with. So I can't say I was like, oh, my God, I can't believe it. But it was. She seemed like she was superhuman.

[Callie Curry]

I was like, oh, my God, I can't believe it. Until I took a second, and I was like, well, the way she plays, she's incredibly explosive. And her usage rate is like. I don't even want to know what it is. It's like, Luca. Luca on the Mavs, I should say. Yeah. So I guess it's not, like, unbelievable that it happened, but. But, God, like, especially, like, women's basketball has been on a fucking tear.

[Bill Simmons]

I know.

[Callie Curry]

It's just. And, like, thinking of. I was so excited for next weekend's games.

[Bill Simmons]

Me too.

[Callie Curry]

And I'm still super excited. There's still really good teams left. Notre Dame is so good. Texas is great. UConn is like. There's so many. It's like, obviously South Carolina, it's super deep, but she was one of the stars you want to see.

[Bill Simmons]

Yuk. Yeah. It felt like there was gonna be a moment with that UConn USC game if she was playing, where we were gonna have an answer for, like, all right, how much of this was Caitlyn and how much of this is just where we are now? Cause, like, there was no way I was missing that game.

[Callie Curry]

No, the good news is what's crazy is I was going to bed last night, and I told Seth. I was like, I think Mississippi State is better than people think we should watch Juju at 10. And I walked away. First of all, I was wrong. They were down by, like, 20 points in, like, 5. 5 minutes. Mississippi State was. But then when she got hurt, I was just like, ugh. And like, some. Some ACL tears happen, and people just are like, yep, tore my acl. Like, no emotion at all. The way that she reacted, you knew immediately, like, what happened.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, some of them are. You don't know if you actually did it. And then other ones where you're just, like, in excruciating pain. And that was unfortunate.

[Callie Curry]

Yeah, she was in excruciating pain. I was just like, I don't even want to watch this. Like, it's so it's so tough to watch. I thought she was.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh go.

[Callie Curry]

She's a sophomore. Which is crazy that she's a sophomore because she's been one of the best players in college basketball for the past two years. But if you're gonna do it like she has time to come back and we'll have two years of eligibility left after she comes back. So it's not like worst case scenario and they have the freshman coming in, Jazzy, who's going to be great. I was really excited to watch Jazzy and Juju together. But Jazzy will be a sophomore when she comes back. So it's not like worst case scenario for her and USC for that matter.

[Bill Simmons]

I just thought the way she played was a one on one. I've never seen any female basketball player play like that. The side to side stuff she could do, going full speed, there's just like there was nobody like her.

[Callie Curry]

No. Yeah, her. The way she scored was fun to watch.

[Bill Simmons]

Who do you have winning the tournament now? Just out of curiosity.

[Callie Curry]

So I never had SC winning the tournament, but I think by the way.

[Bill Simmons]

I didn't either because her usage rate was too high. You can stop that over the course of a tournament.

[Callie Curry]

Yeah. It'll be interesting though because they have other players that are good. So it'll be interesting to see how they like they're good enough. I think that they might still win at least one more game. Kiki's great. The other point guard that came from Oregon State, I'm blanking on her name right now. She's pretty good. So I think that they'll be okay. UCLA has so much size. I just think it's impossible to like bet against South Carolina. Like how many times do you have to do it?

[Bill Simmons]

I'd go ucla.

[Callie Curry]

You put you. You have ucla.

[Bill Simmons]

I think I'd pick UCLA now.

[Callie Curry]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I like their team and I like that they have real size and real size. I don't know, I just.

[Callie Curry]

They're feisty. Um, I think that they had like one of the tougher schedules and won again and again and again. Except for against usc and now USC is not going to be in the picture. So sleeper team I guess would be. Which is not that big of a sleeper cuz they were number two seed. But Notre Dame is really good.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm looking at the odds right now just so we know what they are. National champion UCONNs plus 155. Yeah. UCLA is seven to one. I like that as like a long shot bet.

[Callie Curry]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

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[Callie Curry]

Did you watch this season?

[Bill Simmons]

I actually we we always have it on because it's one of those shows you can kind of throw on as you're doing something else. So I did catch most of just feels like a. I wouldn't even say a broken franchise. It's an expired franchise. I think this is a 20 year structure of a show that is now no longer surprising or that interesting. And I don't think they know what to do anymore.

[Callie Curry]

Well, Bachelor in Paradise to me is the direction that they should put all of their money. It's so similar to Love island. And Love island obviously is super popular. Not even just in the US but uk, Australia, France. I love watching Bachelor in Paradise. They announced last night that they're putting like golden Bachelor and Bachelorettes on the island.

[Bill Simmons]

Not as excited for that one.

[Callie Curry]

No. I also don't know how it's gonna work. Like, what if a 50 year old falls in love with a 25 year old? Is that like, cool? Is that what's gonna happen?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, it seems it almost like you're doing a sociological experiment at this point. I don't get it.

[Callie Curry]

Yeah. I don't know what the rules are if Goldens are only gonna be with Goldens or what it's gonna look like, but I feel like that's a weird mix on the island. I guess we'll see how that works. But I think that's where they should focus. I also think if they're going to continue with some version of this, making it a requirement that you're engaged at the end of it seems so dated to me.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, it's a great point.

[Callie Curry]

That's like a huge stakes thing at the end of this. After dating 25 people for over a month. And like people that come off the show are like, I really did like him. Like, I went on one date with him and spent a total of an hour. And I was thinking you were going to get engaged.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. Well, I think this is why we have a 7% success rate with the couples that come out of the show Would be one of the reasons.

[Callie Curry]

By the way, Bachelor in Paradise has a much higher success rate.

[Bill Simmons]

Interesting. Because they probably spend way more time just chilling and hanging.

[Callie Curry]

Way more time. Way more time. Also, it's not like they're forced to only have their eyes on one person. They get to be introduced to 10 people and pick who they want out of those 10 people. And like you're both choosing each other instead of here's the one guy, like fall in love with him.

[Bill Simmons]

It's. It's been interesting to watch the franchise evolve over the or not evolve over the 20 years. Because like Survivor was in some of the same boat where it's like they had this game. Here's the premise. And then people are like, okay, I'm kind of used to this. And then they would tweak certain things and, and do the tribes differently. And they were always trying to innovate. You can't really innovate with the Bachelor. And I think when you think how many shows have passed it for more of even Temptation island on Netflix. Did you watch it? My wife dove in.

[Callie Curry]

I watched it too.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And she thought it was good. And I might have seen a couple episodes myself, but it was just. It's like a smarter version of the same kind of idea.

[Callie Curry]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And it just. The Bachelor feels like it's out of, like, the 1980s at this point.

[Callie Curry]

I agree with you. The problem is the Bachelor still gets, like, over a million views, which is more than what these other shows get. I just think that the other shows have so much more, like, cultural relevancy.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. No. No question.

[Callie Curry]

So. So how do you stop. Like, it's the lowest production. Like, the. How much money they put into the production versus how much money they make off of it. Like, it still makes sense for them to make the show. It's just not.

[Bill Simmons]

I agree with you.

[Callie Curry]

It's not a great show. I think Bachelor in Paradise could be great. But Bachelor and Bachelorette, I think they're pretty rough.

[Bill Simmons]

And so you wouldn't try to blow it up and try to actually change the show in some way. Because we should mention, the biggest thing that's changed is in the last seven, eight years with all these reality shows. It used to be one of those things where they're like, it would be awesome if somebody just got drunk and then got mad at somebody else and they just started screaming at each other. And the producers are now really scared of that. Yeah. It really hurt the challenge. I mean, the challenge is ruined now. It's like a sporting event now. It's not even a reality show. But it was more fun to watch Trainwreck TV like that. Like, think about Bad Girls Club. Fifteen years ago, that show was the most insane show of all time, and now they're kind of afraid to go there. And these streamer shows have kind of figured out that middle ground of these people are still crazy. But it's not. We're not crossing lines here.

[Callie Curry]

No. By the way, Temptation Island, I read in an interview that there is no alcohol limit, so they are allowed to drink as much as they want.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean, that might be one of the changes we need to put in. Partly what the Bachelor used to do is they would have those people there till six in the morning, and they would have all the girls just drinking champagne, not eating, and they would kind of wait till 2, 3 in the morning when they started getting crazy and sloppy. That was part of the blueprint. You can't do that anymore, obviously.

[Callie Curry]

I mean, there's a lot of shows that you look back at and you're like, couldn't do that anymore. But that's part of the. Unfortunately, that is part of the problem. Would I blow it up? I don't think you can go. I mean, you have a two hour slot, primetime tv. You have over a million viewers a week. I think you gotta tweak something. I don't know if you can fully blow it up. Cause you don't want to lose that audience base that you have.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Because people are still turning out like the people in my house, and it's terrible. And we're still. There's a safety to it where it's like, I know what this is. I don't really have to pay attention. Oh, we're going to get to the thing now where it's the two women who hate each other, and we're going to have to go on a date with the three of them and one person's getting voted off. Like, I know all the beats.

[Callie Curry]

Yeah. You know, the archae, the archetype, characters that they're going to have every single season. There's going to be a villain, there's going to be someone that's a front runner. Did you watch the finale last night?

[Bill Simmons]

I saw a bunch of it, yeah. I mean, I saw that. I didn't see the last hour, but it was on in the House.

[Callie Curry]

So the woman that everyone thought was going to win lost. I didn't.

[Bill Simmons]

I thought the other one was going to win.

[Callie Curry]

You did?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Callie Curry]

The reason why we thought the other one was going to win is because Grant had no knowledge of Mormonism, which is crazy to me because it's like everywhere in pop culture. But he didn't know anything about Mormonism, so all he had was whatever the producers were telling him, which, like, God knows what the producers were telling him about Mormonism. And I feel like that might have been like a. I don't really know what. No.

[Bill Simmons]

The family visit was when you could see his wheels turning.

[Callie Curry]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

My. My rule at the Bachelor is always like, who's. Who's the one he's going to most want to have sex with? That's who usually wins.

[Callie Curry]

Well, I can see him wanting to.

[Bill Simmons]

And it happened again. Juliana was like, she. Whatever. You could just see he had a little extra hop on the step.

[Callie Curry]

Super pretty fun. Her family seemed great and easy.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. She's a Massachusetts girl.

[Callie Curry]

Easy transition. Yeah. Which is cool. That's the other thing.

[Bill Simmons]

Easy is another one. I don't mean easy in the derogatory. I mean easy like easy to hang out with. Those are the ones that always make the final two because it's the one way the Bachelor mirrors real life. Like, yeah, that is what you want. People who are easier to hang out with is usually who you want, like your son to marry. It was like, hey, how about no drama whatsoever? How about the stable, awesome person?

[Callie Curry]

Well, I mean, at the end of the day in marriage, like, you spend an enormous amount of time with that person. You want someone that you want to hang out with.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. Be a buddy. Not like I. The. The runner up. I don't know. There was some. I thought it was interesting how she. Her personality flipped the moment she became clear. There was this new side of her that I guess she was.

[Callie Curry]

I was shocked by that.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like she became a different person. Yeah.

[Callie Curry]

Yeah. She was like the, like, the soft spoken, super kind, sweet, and immediately she was somebody else. Now, I'm not mad at the way that she reacted based on everything that she was saying, but I was like, we did not see any version of this side of you throughout the entire time we've been watching the show.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I think the. The fundamental flaw with the show is that the people watch it after the season, and if they're. You're gonna end up together and you're gonna pick somebody and then you watch them on the dates with the other people, and you watch those, like, conversations, and you watch him tell somebody I love you or whatever they say. I don't know how you bounce back from that. Like, sadly for me, my daughter is now at the age where I'm like, my worst case scenario for one of the many for me with her would be if she went on one of these shows. And I just can't imagine watching somebody you care about on one of these shows, like, oh, my God, this guy was just making out with this other person in the hot tub.

[Callie Curry]

Well, Grant made out with almost every person on that show, so it'd be a lot of that.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he was getting around.

[Callie Curry]

If your daughter was on this show, you know how they do the hometown visits, Would you be supportive and go, like, would you be on the show?

[Bill Simmons]

First of all, thank you for asking. I've discussed this with my wife, and it would definitely be the good cop, bad cop thing where my wife would be the one who was like, oh, she seems great. And then they'd show me in the camera kind of side eyeing the guy. And then I would definitely pull him out to the deck for the talk. And I would. I would be abs. I would make that guy absolutely miserable for 15 minutes.

[Callie Curry]

I don't think my dad would do it.

[Bill Simmons]

You don't think he'd even be on camera?

[Callie Curry]

No, I think he'd be like, I'll meet him after he's chosen. I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

Doc likes the cameras.

[Callie Curry]

I don't think he would go on knowing that this guy is dating other girls. Like, it just wouldn't be good for.

[Bill Simmons]

So you get. That's where you get Austin or.

[Callie Curry]

Oh, God.

[Bill Simmons]

That's why Austin comes in. He plays the hard driving interview family member role.

[Callie Curry]

I can't even imagine Austin in this role. Like, hey, meet my boyfriend who has three other girlfriends and is choosing which one of us.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, we're in hometowns right now. Here come meet Austin.

[Callie Curry]

That's an insane ask for families, I think.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Callie Curry]

And when families don't do it, I'm like, yeah, I don't know if my family would do it because my dad would be an asshole to this guy.

[Bill Simmons]

That would be my role. Well, the thing is, I think if you have no experience whatsoever with celebrity or being like, if you're just some random family in the middle of nowhere and your kid makes the final four and you're like, we're all gonna be on tv. Aunt Jenny's gonna come over. It's kind of like you'd be excited about it, right?

[Callie Curry]

Yeah, it's fun. I guess that's a really good point of view. I've never thought about that. That makes a lot of sense. I guess I feel like for the opposite reason of that, my dad would be like, yeah, no thanks.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, it's also interesting. The way they meet the families is like the most uncon. Like, nobody would do this anymore. Where it's like, meet my family. Here's 12 people sitting in a circle and we're going to have a really awkward conversation with four cameras filming us. What are the odds that's going to go well?

[Callie Curry]

My dad's gonna take you outside for a chat. Then my brother is. I'm gonna talk to my mom and start crying. It's like the craziest thing in the world. And then latia brought like 40, like, meet my 40 family members that all live together or not together, but like around each other.

[Bill Simmons]

No, it's tough. I think the franchise is done. I like your idea of Bachelor in Paradise replacing the franchise. Cause it's a better show and it's a better idea and it's a better.

[Callie Curry]

You could do it as you said.

[Bill Simmons]

And it's a better. Better hang with the people you might end up with, which is why it's more successful.

[Callie Curry]

And I think that they would have to move to a trader's model where it's not just bachelor contestants. You start pulling young reality talent, which there is unlimited amount of young reality talent that are single, and you pull them on the island. And maybe you do, like, if you're doing two a year, one is only bachelor people and the other one is, like, young reality talent that are singles. But I feel like that makes it so much more fun.

[Bill Simmons]

It feels like there's only a couple moves left for the franchise. One would be to get a famous influencer to be the bachelor. Well, and try to bring in a whole new audience. An influencer audience to it. But then you have to disappear. So those people would not be heard from for six months or six weeks, whatever it is.

[Callie Curry]

And then you also don't have. I guess you have the talent of the people that are coming on the show to win. Best case scenario for me, give me a Tom Brady trying to find love.

[Bill Simmons]

Bachelor Tom Brady.

[Callie Curry]

Give me a Batman.

[Bill Simmons]

Now Tom Brady is the bachelor who would get ratings. I'm positive.

[Callie Curry]

I floated this idea, so I'm okay. I cleared it with her before. But, like, would love to watch Sonya Curry find love on the bachelorette.

[Bill Simmons]

Sonya Curry.

[Callie Curry]

Would that not be so fun?

[Bill Simmons]

That sounds amazing.

[Callie Curry]

And then so you could. What family member would you be? Seth and Stefan and Sidal. Like, that sounds great to me to watch.

[Bill Simmons]

What family member role would you play in the interview with the person that came over to the house? Would you be the suspicious one?

[Callie Curry]

No, I would be like. Well, no, I actually probably would be suspicious. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Callie Curry]

Cause Seth.

[Bill Simmons]

Seth's just gonna be nice.

[Callie Curry]

Like, he's 100%.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. And Steph, too. Cameras would be on.

[Callie Curry]

I was gonna say, honestly, out of the family members, Seth would be the one that dislikes the person the most. He's just not gonna say it on camera. He probably would, like, not talk to the guy.

[Bill Simmons]

Some brooding looks from him.

[Callie Curry]

Yes. Yeah. Stefan would be super nice and personable. Sadel would be, like, suspicious, but she would ask the questions.

[Bill Simmons]

I like this. Well, I like the thought of an NBA player as the bachelor. We've never had it. We had.

[Callie Curry]

That's like, get an athlete, an ex athlete, probably to be like, remember when Travis Kelce found love?

[Bill Simmons]

You know, we're not supposed to talk about that anymore.

[Callie Curry]

Why?

[Bill Simmons]

Because the swifties, they get. They don't want to know about when he dated somebody. No, it exists. I think it's one of those things we're not allowed to talk about anymore. Yeah, he was on a reality show looking for love. What was it called? Like, Cat Last Catch Kelsey. Yeah, Catching Kelsey something.

[Callie Curry]

It was. I did not watch that. It was horrible. It was not good. But if ABC did it in a Bachelor version, I think it could be pretty good. And it doesn't have to. Obviously, Tom Brady. Who fucking knows how much money he would ask to do something like that. So obviously or probably not him.

[Bill Simmons]

But listen, he took 20 million bucks for to get roasted and had the worst possible jokes made of him. Like, he can't be ruled out for the Bachelor.

[Callie Curry]

I would absolutely watch Tom Brady fall in love. I'd also watch Sonya Curry. We did like, a whole list. I think Charles Barkley was in it. But then someone said he was married. Is he married?

[Bill Simmons]

I think he's married. That makes it more fun, though. He's married, but he's not the Bachelor.

[Callie Curry]

Anyway, like, let's watch Shaq fall in love.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow. So this is the way to fix the Bachelor. Just major celebrities.

[Callie Curry]

I think I've sold you on it. You seem like you'd watch.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I think it would have to be somebody who's probably divorced, but maybe 40s or 50s range.

[Callie Curry]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And.

[Callie Curry]

And that can at a good point in their life.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. All right, this is good. Great talk. When's your next pod?

[Callie Curry]

I am recording today for the Bachelor finale, so you can listen to Bachelor Party tomorrow. It'll be out tomorrow, Wednesday.

[Bill Simmons]

All right. Say hi to our guy, Steph. Say hi to the whole fam. Thanks for coming out, Callie.

[Callie Curry]

Thank you.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, taping this Tuesday morning, March Madness is upon us. It's not that mad tape. Frazier is here. You can hear him on one shining podcast. Kyle Mann, you can hear him on that podcast sometimes as well. As well as the ringer NBA show sometimes this show, sometimes. You can read him right now on theringer.com because we put a new draft guide up. I'm going to start here, fellas. Men's March Madness basketball has become women's March Madness basketball with all the seeds just. You just push all the high seeds forward. You might have one get bounced. This is just where we are now. And I don't know if it's nil or just all the turnover or what, but St. John's was the only top seed that got bounced. Right? So, Tate, is this just where we are now? This is college basketball. We don't have the Cinderellas anymore. We're done.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, we do have a Cinderella. His name's John Calipari. Haven't you heard, Bill? He is the ultimate Cinderella. He's having a great year. He was a 10 seed and now he's going to make a run. That's the only cell that we have.

[Bill Simmons]

10 seed. That's what we're excited about.

[Tate Frazier]

We're excited about.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, it's a 10 seed.

[Tate Frazier]

The SEC having a 10 seed. I say this is the happy era of college basketball. And happy in reference to blue chips. I mean, there's a lot of nil. A lot of bag dropping, a lot of conversations had behind closed doors, a lot of tampering, Bill, that's the one thing that the NBA and college basketball together, we can both tamper. There is a lot of, you know, saying that the sky is falling this year. The women's bracket's very similar. Like you said, it's the top dogs. But if you watched all year, the best teams have been the best teams. Now, granted, it's because the best players from the mid majors now play for the best teams. That's sort of the larger issue. But, you know, right now we got good basketball ahead. We didn't get the Cinderellas, but at least we got good games.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, it didn't hurt the ratings, right? The ratings seem like they're great, the interests seem great. And you know, the, the, I mean, part of it is the players in the tournament this year are really good, which ties into the draft being really good. But I like, I kind of like having Duke back. It reminds me of being in college where just every year Duke had just multiple lottery picks and a signature dude. But what before we. I. I asked you guys to do a five favorite things heading into Thursdays, really, for the casual fans, in case people are jumping in now. But what's. What. Did you like anything out of that first four day weekend, Kyle? Man.

[Kyle Mann]

Well, Tate teed up my first one that I wanted to say. I feel like being from where I'm from, I have to. I'm obligated to bring this up, but I don't know if you, Bill, you ever made up an actual scale for this to measure FU energy. But Caliperi's FU energy is like breaking the ceiling right now. You know that meme where the volume level goes off the ipod? I was calling this. I labeled it the Calipari Fu Extravagant extravaganza. Because people shovel dirt on him. You know, they started 11 and two this season, but once they got into conference play, they lost six of their last or their first seven. People were like, there was. You started seeing these sort of anonymous. The athletic does these like anonymous scouts, anonymous coaches notebooks things. And you started to see, Tate knows what I'm talking about. I mean, you started to see these like, we're no longer afraid of him if he's on the other sideline anymore. It was just a, it was a lot of people were people. There were a lot of people with shovels just enjoying. And I think that this is. I tweeted this before the St. John's game that I thought that they were going to win that game because a, they had more talent. There's basketball reasons. But also this is, this is more true. Cal, like when he is pissed off when he's climbing, you remember how swaggy he was with the slick hair and the suits and he rolls into town and he's like, I know you're mad I'm beating you. You guys think I'm cheating. Get over it. Deal with it. If I like this kid, he's coming with me. That energy is true. Cal. Cal at the top of the hill with like a fortified castle. That's not him. So he is thriving right now. And I don't take. What kind of a limit would you put on on how far they could go? Because this team has the talent of a two seed. I don't know if I quite go one seed, but they have a lot of talent. And I don't know where the FU extravaganza is going to top off at. I really don't think a lot of.

[Tate Frazier]

5 stars BS and like you said, they are blue collar cow instead of blue blood cow. And blue collar cow is a lot, you know, more feisty. He's got a lot more fire in his belly than the blue blood version. And that is encouraging. And their best player could be coming back a Duthieira who's also an NBA prospect that I'm sure is in the draft guide at some point. So that's encouraging news for Cal.

[Bill Simmons]

So I'm looking at the fanduel odds right now and they're 10 to 1 to make the Final Four, but they have a 710 matchup this next round against Texas Tech. But Florida, Texas Tech, Maryland and Arkansas are in that bracket. So it sounds like you guys are already nudging me mentally toward a 10 to 1 Arkansas Final Four bet.

[Tate Frazier]

And that's caliper.

[Bill Simmons]

You know what? The FU extravaganza sounds like a great. A great bus to jump on. Do they have an aisle seat? I like the aisle seat, Tate.

[Kyle Mann]

I mean, it's very possible. I mean, they can beat Texas Tech. That's going to be a gritty game. But, I mean, they. They. They also could bog Florida down. I could see it happening. I really could. And what a brutal, like, PR beat. Like, it was. One of the hilarious things in the FU tour that we should mention is that Pitino was on this, like, pr, like, just crazy tour where his brand has been, like, renovated. He's on Jimmy Fallon singing songs and stuff like that. New York basketball. We're popping. We're in the New York Post, and Cal's just like, no, no. He just put an end to it. So, yeah, they could definitely make the Final Four. It's wild that. That this could happen, but it definitely could.

[Bill Simmons]

So that was the signature game of the weekend, right? And it sucked. It just was. Was a terrible basketball game. It was like 1,000 field goals. It was all the worst things. If you're gonna say, like, here's. Here's why somebody wouldn't like college basketball. You'd watch that game like, people shooting threes that can't make threes and just, you know, so many TV timeouts and fouls. The game had no flow, and yet it was still weirdly compelling because of the two coaches. And it's just so funny that when I, you know, we did blue chips on the rewatchables, which is built around, like, the mystique of a coach and how far do you want to go to keep your. Keep your throne? And college basketball still generating these dudes. And Cal Prior is not exactly in the. I now have a, you know, a really bad toupee or a comb over, and I'm old and I'm 100 pounds heavier than when you remember me initially. We don't have that wave of guys yet. Who is Tate? Who's the next generation of Calipari Patino guys? Who are the guys 20 years from now where you could add a game like that on a Saturday and you're really watching for the coaches more than anything. Do we even have that class yet?

[Tate Frazier]

Well, I think three.

[Kyle Mann]

Tate, can we say, I know we're on Zoom, but I know what you're going to say. Go ahead.

[Tate Frazier]

Let's do it. I do think it is 1, 2, 3. Will Wade. Yes, that is the answer. And he did win, you know, in the first round. He upsets Clemson with McNeese now he's going to NC State. He's going to Tobacco Road. There's some Jimmy V vibes there. You know how Jimmy V was, Bill. He willing to do what it takes, get his hands a little bit dirty to make sure they could win some games. And Will Wade is very similar. He is not afraid to go at the Blue Bloods, not afraid to tell Duke to F off. He already guaranteed they're going to make the tournament next season. So Will Wade is kind of a throwback in that sense where he is a bad guy. He is not afraid of any of the PR and he's also not afraid to call it the ncaa, which is a zombie organization at this point. And Will Wade is poking the bear as much as he can. So I think he would be the right. I'm glad we're on the same page. Kyle. Man, uh, it's gotta be Will Weight.

[Bill Simmons]

Con man, you. Do you like where college basketball is right now in 2025 with this wild wild west nil. Guys could just hop around. Cause some people like it and they're like, look, this is the way it always should have been. I mean, like we talked about this when we did the blue chips pod. It's weird cause Happy is the quote unquote villain on that pod. But some of the stuff he's saying in the movie is the stuff that eventually became the themes of the 2000s. Like why shouldn't these guys get paid? Why can't they get a piece of it? Why can't they jump around when the coaches can jump around? Why. Why do we treat them like this? So now we're in this world. But it's pretty weird and it's hard to keep track of if you're like a casual college basketball fan like me. So do you like it? More or less.

[Kyle Mann]

I was glad that you all said the thing about Happy with the gambling because my brain just had edited that out in my memory of the movie. Because I always thought Happy was the hero of that movie. Looking back. But I was texting my dad this the other day that I'm. I'm very torn because the reparations of these guys should have been getting paid for. For a long time. We know once the TV money and the money changed everything and the shoe money entered it into the. Into the equation. These guys should have been compensated. And we saw during COVID that they're so. I think Covid was sort of the thing that cemented home that this had to change because the schools and the networks were so dependent on these guys playing. And we're talking about young student athletes jeopardize, you know, arguably jeopardizing their health based on the COVID situation. But. And we're just like, well, school is the most important thing, but we got to make money, so these guys got to be out there. So I thought that proved it. But I was telling my dad that I'm just torn because I do feel like the basketball is better. A lot of the, you know, the SEC was the most dominant conference in the country this. This year. Six or. Yeah. What is it, like seven of the. Of the sweet 16 teams. The huge presence. But they were old. They had a lot of older players and the quality of play is up. But then on the other side of it, I do feel. And Tate, speak to this if you want, but I feel like it has aged me as like a millennial basketball, college basketball fan, where I want to see them get what they deserve. But I'm also looking at it. I'm just like, man, the portal opened up and they set the record. What was the number, Tate? It shattered the record. Every.

[Tate Frazier]

Every 700 names are in the portal. And that.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, my God.

[Tate Frazier]

Right?

[Kyle Mann]

Yeah. And you're. And I think we're going to see fewer and fewer C.J. mcCollums. You know, we're going to see fewer and fewer diamonds who are on these mid major teams, like for a Lehigh or guys like John Morant. Would John Moran have been at Murray State for that second year? I don't. It seems pretty unlikely. These guys are. They're looking to climb up because the money's so crazy, and maybe once regulation comes in, it'll change. But I'm just very torn about it because I. I just, I think some kind of regulation has to come into it.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, it's. It goes back to like, you know, Nick Nolte says it like, the rules don't make sense, but I believe in the rules. And I do think, like, now more than ever, the rules really don't make sense. And the NCAA has no incentive to fix the rules because whatever they do, they get sued. If they try to fix it, they get sued for that. If they don't do anything, they get sued for that. So they're basically just putting their hands up saying, we'll pay out these payouts. We hope we can exist and keep this tournament going. But you guys, they're taking their ball and going home. And at this point, and then the game itself, to use a Celtic City reference, which I really like, There was the Spartan era of college basketball. I feel like we're in a, an Athenian area area of college basketball where like we're a thinky man's game of college basketball. Like there are really smart teams, there are really good teams. Byu, Alabama, those are two future NBA coaches going head to head, two offensive masterminds. So like college basketball, the game itself is awesome. I think we still need quarters in the game to match with and I think then we're really cooking, but I think it's in a good spot. But then the rules and the transfer portal and the super conferences, all that sort of stuff all gets kind of bundled together to say, hey, the death of college basketball. But in specific pockets, things are going well.

[Bill Simmons]

Sounds like you need some advice from the sports are. I don't know if you want to bring them in.

[Tate Frazier]

Yes, please.

[Bill Simmons]

I've been waiting the most obvious fix and I don't know if they have any authority whatsoever and they probably don't. But the most obvious fix seems to be you have to stay somewhere for two years and that's coaches and players. You just have to that. That's the rule. And if you transfer after one year, maybe you have to sit out the next year. But there has to be, it seems to me like a little more stability. And it can't just be like, you know, it's, it's 2K and you're just resetting the rosters every April because I, I don't think that's sustainable. I think it's going to be really hard for people to follow. And I still feel like they can get paid in the same way.

[Tate Frazier]

And that's how a lot of the GMs are doing it now. Bill, even Lombardi, right, he goes to Carolina football and he's like, these guys are signing two year deals, not one year deals.

[Bill Simmons]

Right? That. And that's what that was. One of the reasons that made me think of it because that the flip side of it is you can also kind of nudge people out faster too, right? So there's no stability in any direction. So I don't know, it feels like something like that. And like if Cooper Flagg goes to Duke, he can't just be like, next year I'm on St. John's I've just changed my mind now I'm a. Rick Patino has won me over and maybe that would help a little bit. But I don't know that the horse might have left the barn on this one. Just in general, sometimes those sports things just get so wacky that you almost can't fix it. You just kind of have to hold on, and that's just kind of where you are.

[Kyle Mann]

You know, I. I just. Something just came to me. What if we had some kind of a system where the mid major. Mid majors are rewarded for their evaluation because they're finding these guys, they're having to go down into the bargain bin and find these guys with upside. What if a high major, if they take a mitt, we'd have to draw some sort of arbitrary line between where that stops and ends. But what if a Duke has to pay, let's say a Lehigh for. For some kind of a fee in the transfers. Yeah. Where, like, they get rewarded for what they do. Well, because these schools need money. And I think the fact that they're losing these NCAA tournament opportunities, it'll help their nil, will help them sort of do better, and maybe it would. Maybe wouldn't deplete them quite so much.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, here's the thing, because it goes beyond just like, oh, this is weird. This guy was on this team, now he's on this team. I think when you lose conferences, you lose the whole point of why we had conferences in the first place, which is to make it easier on people who are allegedly in college to play their sport and then also stay in college, which is why you had the ACC the way it used to be back when Tate was a baby, everybody was kind of around each other, right. And the PAC 12 or the PAC 10, back in the day, it was like, everybody. So when you traveled somewhere, it wasn't like you're traveling cross country to play a conference game. I have. We have some friends out here, one of them who have college athletes, and one of them runs at Berkeley, just cross country, and they'll have these meets and they're like, yeah, we have to fly across country because we're playing some, you know, some school in the east coast. And it's like, yeah, how is this a college experience? Like, you're just on a plane back and forth for three straight months. So that's where, like, if you had a real sports star, I think they would be looking at this. Like, look, this is really stupid. Like, if you're going to have these mega conferences, at least make regions with them.

[Tate Frazier]

And you would have been smart and said, hey, why are we even doing mega conferences or super conferences? It's because of football. Why can't football exist in its own world? And that.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, that's the bigger thing, right? Football should be over here. And the rest of college should be over because now, like with the. With how big women's basketball is, you could argue men's and women's basketball kind of cancel each other out from like a scholarship thing. It's not there with the revenue yet, but it might be someday. The soccer is the same thing where the soccer on both rosters is the same, but football is what screws it up. And football having to match all those scholarships on the other end and you end up with people who just wanted to run cross country on an airplane every week. That part makes no sense to me. I personally really miss the regional stuff because those are my favorite rivalries and I just can't. Maybe I'm too old. I just can't make sense of some of these matchups now. But it started. This has been going on for a while. You know, this was. The Big east was the first one where it's like, wait, they're going to be there and then the ACC and they're going to be. And it's just, you know, it's a brain breaker. Maybe it's just gone, Tate. I don't know. Maybe this just never comes back.

[Tate Frazier]

Well, it was. I do feel like we're all going to. The conferences are going to take over and make decisions once the NCAA is paying out all their many reparations over the next few years and slowly become more and more defunct as an organization. And I think the conferences are all going to take over and may there's a world where there is just one super conference, but I do think that everyone with the brain is going to look around and say, what are we doing here? If we're going to have to manage all of this as a conference, why don't we recede back to what we were. There's too many different, you know, we have to feed too many people. Look at the NCAA tournament. There's 14 SEC teams and they're all really good and like, not everybody can eat. And eventually people, you know, they get hungry and they start complaining. And then, you know, I think it does kind of revert back to the old ways because we've gone too far and everybody knows it.

[Bill Simmons]

What if nobody has a brain? That's the fear is like, what if there's not that one person idiocracy is.

[Tate Frazier]

Right in front of us? Bs I think you just said it.

[Kyle Mann]

There's like an interesting cyclical cable bundle kind of thing going on here where there's a market correction for an inefficiency. And then we get to this other place and then it starts to resemble the original thing. Right? It's. It's like eventually. Yeah, Tate, like what you were saying, if it all just. If the NCAA was the inefficiency and it goes away and we end up with this gigantic group of teams doing it a different way, and then they start to regionally split off, maybe that's the path to success. I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

Kyle, when you're growing up, Kentucky's biggest rivals other than Louisville were. Who?

[Kyle Mann]

Tennessee. They. They hate Duke, even though that was just kind of based on one game. But I'd say Tennessee in conference people. I mean, Florida, those.

[Tate Frazier]

Indiana.

[Kyle Mann]

Indiana was the one. Yeah. Indiana was a generational thing that was like, really driven by the Bob Knight era. But those. Those are the one. It's like three or four.

[Bill Simmons]

And Tate, you're a UNC fan. We know you would actually approve carpet bombing on the Duke campus. But other than Duke, who. Who are the big rivals for unc?

[Tate Frazier]

Well, I mean, obviously Duke is special in what they are and the hatred that's there. I mean, NC State has always been somewhat of a rival, but at the same time, I liked. You know, I had friends that were going to NC State. I like some of their teams. So it's not really.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like a Clippers, Lakers thing. You couldn't almost get too mad at them.

[Tate Frazier]

I didn't really hate him. In fact, like, there really was only Duke that I had really despised. Like, even Maryland, even though they would beat us, I kind of respected them, you know, and I, you know, Juan Dixon, I like Steve Blake, I like Lonnie Baxter, you know, I mean, I like those teams. So it really was a Duke thing. And now, Bill, as you know, Duke is not the Duke of old, and they're not as hateable. Even though Cooper Flag is showing some flashes of going full Duke, which I do appreciate, in general. They're just not a very hateable organization right now because they're just doing everything better than everybody else. So you can't really get that bad. But, you know, so you miss Coach.

[Bill Simmons]

K. The coach is a lot more like a. It's like a canker sore that you miss having in your mouth playing with.

[Tate Frazier]

I need an enemy. You know what I mean? Like, as I exist out here, sometimes you're like, I kind of miss just having that hovering of, you know, in the background. And he still is there B.S. you know, he's doing a radio show. He's making sure he's seen. So what was that?

[Bill Simmons]

He did an ad recently that. That. That inflamed. Yeah, whatever that was. I was like, oh, man, this fucking guy. Look at him still grabbing bags.

[Tate Frazier]

He's back.

[Kyle Mann]

We had a field day with the duty to country. Wasn't there. Wasn't there some kind of comm. That we were all talking about? It was. Might have been the army, but UConn has become the new Duke. It's. It's a different.

[Bill Simmons]

It's Hurley. It's like the new Coach K. Yeah, they're a little.

[Kyle Mann]

They're a little more. There's a little more bravado. Duke had that sort of affluent, you know, grade school smarmy kind of a thing that you're seeing in. In.

[Tate Frazier]

We're better than you.

[Kyle Mann]

Ratliff on White Lotus. Like that family. I'm sure Tati eats that up. But Yeah, I mean, UConn and theirs is a lot more coach driven. They've had aggressive coaches in the past, but I think Hurley has kind of assumed that. And the more they succeed, they're going to become the evil empire in college basketball. I think it started with that fake.

[Bill Simmons]

Laker thing that just was ridiculous from beginning to end. And then he's just kept it going. I think he saw Coach K void. He's like, how do I get the next generation of Tates to hate my guts, right? What are some things I could do? Should I just flip out at the Maui. Whatever the Maui tournament's called. And Bobby Jackass? Sure, yeah.

[Tate Frazier]

Bobby was supposed to be that guy too, Right? You know what I mean? It's kind of like Bob Knight had Steve Alford, right? Steve Alford was supposed to be his protege. It was him on the floor then, obviously Coach K had Bobby Hurley. And you would assume that Bobby Hurley would have been the one that is the new Sith Lord, as Danny Hurley is. So Danny kind of stole it from his brother. There is that brotherly competition rivalry that's kind of built in there. And then Coach K has kind of basically included himself in the Dan Hurley story. You know what I mean?

[Bill Simmons]

He's done what classic Coach K. Well.

[Tate Frazier]

He got Seth Curry, right bs and then he got Steph Curry by transitive property. This is something that he's done before.

[Bill Simmons]

So he's got the hurl bandwagon jumper. He can't resist.

[Tate Frazier]

He's a genius. I'm honestly impressed. I'm like, how did.

[Bill Simmons]

He just Wouldn't leave. He wouldn't leave the Olympic team. He just had to grab on to more people and more legacies.

[Tate Frazier]

LeBron, everybody.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's do five favorites quick. So I don't know. I told you guys to come up with three each and maybe they'll overlap and we'll only do four. But five favorite things as we head forward to a weekend with a lot of really good teams playing each other and a lot of good players. And this is like an excellent, excellent, excellent, excellent NBA draft that's coming with some of these guys that is going to be really fun to talk about. Tate, what's your number one favorite thing heading into the next round?

[Tate Frazier]

Number one favorite thing, and this is catered towards you and the NBA fans because I want them to care. The BYUTAH Jazz. Ryan Smith is bankrolling BYU basketball. Danny Ainge is monitoring the situation. He is going to all the games. He has gotten Kevin Young there, who is going to be an NBA coach at some point. He has a really good squad. Richie Saunders. If you're a throwback college basketball fan, you're going to love Richie Saunders. This guy just gets buckets. He does whatever he needs to do to win. Energy. He's an excellent player, gets everybody involved. And then if you're an NBA guy, Jagor Dimon, you know, get playing point guard. But really he's like a wing. He's like a wing forward kind of like in the same vein.

[Bill Simmons]

Fell a little bit. He was in that top five combo and now he seems like he's in that nine to 11 range.

[Tate Frazier]

He's trending in the right direction. BS at the right time because you know, the NCAA tournament is powerful. All these scouts get together, they're in the same gym, something happens. The lights are bright and they say, hey, he's one of those guys, Derek Queen. We just saw in Seattle the red hour back test. Does he want to be good or great? Derek Queen said, I want to be great. But back to byu. I like the makeup of this group. I like that they're funneled and funded by an NBA team. I like that AJ Debance of the future number one pick will be there next year. They're laying the foundation.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe not the future number one pick. Oh, there's been, there's been.

[Anthony DeBundo]

Yeah.

[Kyle Mann]

Kyle knows there's Darren Peterson.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, yeah, there's been some. There's been some, some. Are we sure he's the number one pick? Stuff with him? Next year's draft is going to be or two years from now, it's gonna be just as crazy.

[Tate Frazier]

Well, that makes BYU this year even more pertinent for them to make a run because if AJ DeBance is not gonna be the number one pick. And they get that cachet. They need to do it now. They're a fun team. They know how to score. This is the highest over with Alabama and byu. So the BYU tie Jazz, that's my first pick.

[Bill Simmons]

I do like the idea of an NBA owner who, see who's like, just seems like a smiling, nice guy. Like, no evil side to him at all. Just quietly funding the state's only relevant college of basketball.

[Tate Frazier]

Right. With Danny Ainge, his alma mater. A guy who went to the elite eight back in the 80s, who wants to bring him back to prominence. I mean, there is a lot of layers to the BYU Tah jab.

[Bill Simmons]

Kyle, does Igor fit the. That where nobody kind of knows what he is. And then Sam Presti takes him with, like, the ninth pick, and everybody's like, is that. Is he one of those guys?

[Kyle Mann]

I texted somebody that works for the Thunder and said, jaeger seems very thundery to me, and there was no response. So I don't even. Either. Either I'm a loser and they don't want to answer or it was true. I'll choose. I don't know, man. I choose to believe it's true.

[Bill Simmons]

Very Thunder. I can't wait to mispronounce his name 19 different ways. So we're going with that's everybody Jaeger. It's not Aegor. Okay, I'll get it. I'll get it by draft.

[Tate Frazier]

I'll be ready.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I'll do some. I'll do some practices. I'll be ready by the time we. We're ready for the draft.

[Kyle Mann]

This was. This was the first one on my list, though I agree with Tate. I had down all underlined. The Mormons are coming. The age of age. Another age of age is upon us. But a big thing to consider here, too, is that. Well, you mentioned Richie. That's true. Surfer bro kind of guy. But he has, like, a really. He has a really gritty, tough way that he plays. And, you know, one big thing, though, is that in Salt Lake City and in Provo, I was told this while I was out there. There's, like, a big tech boom and a lot of, like, BYU alums who are. There's more industry and tech out there, so there's money kind of coming up there. There's something to keep an eye on. I. I think that your point about an NBA team, NBA people aligning with a school. I. There's. There's something interesting in the future of college basketball there, too. If Akron McCiller at that time.

[Bill Simmons]

So illegal. I mean, how is it conceivable you can do this?

[Kyle Mann]

Also the Mormon church has more money than. Than God. Like they have a lot, a lot of money. So you know. Yeah, they're an interest. They're really an interesting force for the, for the future in college basketball.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, right now in FanDuel they're plus 950 to win the east because unfortunately for them, they're in Duke's bracket. But they don't have to play Duke until the weekend if they can make it.

[Tate Frazier]

Yep, Sunday.

[Bill Simmons]

We'll see. All right, Kyle, what's your first one?

[Kyle Mann]

I was just going to point some point people to some of the oddities. If you just like weird players, things, things to get into, things to watch for you men like the lottery people in this draft. Six, six of the of the top 14 that are in the ringer NBA draft. Plug that again. The guy that came out. So there's a lot of lottery talent in this game or in this, in this part of the tournament. I wanted to point out there's a couple more odd players. Danny Wolf, who I mentioned on the ringer NBA show the other day, he's a handling seven footer. He has almost like a Franz Wagnery Hedo Turgolu kind of big guy who can run some pick and roll. The shooting is a little inconsistent. He could be a little turnover prone, but he can really pass the ball. Depending on how a game can go, he can look like the best player on the floor. I don't know. Have you, have you gotten to peep that guy at all?

[Bill Simmons]

Billy, I only pre peep when you give me the heads up. Like with Queen where you're like, can you do a deep dive on this guy? And then I'll do it. But I'm always like kind of waiting for somebody to trigger me.

[Kyle Mann]

Well, Queen's the other one. Queen, I mentioned that I think that he has sort of a Boris Dia. He has a Euro way that he plays. You know he had that game winner against Colorado State. He's a very cool level guy. Not much.

[Bill Simmons]

So he's a Maryland for the people listening.

[Kyle Mann]

Yes, yes. A big guy who has really soft hands. He's constantly chewing his mouth guard which drives my wife insane. But yeah, but he's, he's an interesting player. I think depending on how you see the game, you can be really high on his potential. He plays with another big guy so I think that his future could look a little bit different in the NBA. But he's, he's very Fun. He has an interesting.

[Bill Simmons]

So yeah, so I did study him. He's one of the few guys I really deep dove because I was fascinated by him because he's such an anomaly for wherever. As you know, I treat college basketball like it's the feeder system. Like much like the real world used to be. The feed feeder system for the challenge. Um, I don't. There's nobody like him now. He doesn't seem like he can really rebound or defend the rim. But then you watch how sophisticated his offensive game is and honestly it's a little embiidish. I'm talking about like last few years before he got hurt and beatish like the stuff he does facing the basket is really nice. Like it just seems like if he's where he is now with some of that stuff four years from now and he could start doing a little bit of the one leg stuff or take it to the basket, jump hook. Like, like I don't know what he is and I don't know if he's just going to end up being a good stats bad team guy, but he's another one that you, you put on like that weird OKC team and just like hey, this guy's going to come in and we're just going to run offense through him for seven minute stretches like oh shit, this guy. I, I am not positive he's a winning player at the next level because of the rebounded defense. What do you think, Tate?

[Tate Frazier]

I like him as like a Kevin Love comp. I love the outlet pass. I love that he's a little chubby right now and I love that he wears the long sleeves because he is a little bit chubby.

[Kyle Mann]

Chubby and he' ever been though to his credit?

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, he's getting in shape and that's what Kevin Love did and you mentioned it. I mean maybe he is a good stats bad team guy. That's what Kevin Love was. He went to many Minnesota 20 and 13 and he was a lot of fun to watch. And then eventually a contender, LeBron James and the Heat said hey. Or the Cleveland Cavaliers at that point said hey, come join us here and play on a real team. So I think that that's kind of like best case scenario for Queen. But you talk about touch, you talk about like vision, you talk about just natural and nature for the game. He has it all and I like that he wanted the ball at the end of the game and he made that shot. I know a lot of people were talking about was it a traveler or was it a not Was it not a travel in the NBA? It's not a travel. So if you're an NBA fan, you're very encouraged to see him want the ball and finish a game. So he's a lot of fun to watch.

[Bill Simmons]

He's an interesting player prop guy because I could see him dropping like 35 and one on one of the games coming up.

[Tate Frazier]

Absolutely.

[Bill Simmons]

You could also see him, you know, had dropped nine and fell out in 19 minutes. But I like him. That was a good recommendation. He was definitely something like I think the DL. Even though his game's different. Diya's a good comp because Dia was like, what is this?

[Tate Frazier]

That's that feel though. Like, it's like you can't really describe it. It's just feel.

[Kyle Mann]

Di was chilling a lot of the time and then he'd get on a good team and you'd be like, oh my God. D could do all the like, you know, Bobcat's Di, you're like, does this guy like basketball? What is. Does he want to retire? And then he gets with a great system. I have a lot of arguments with like drafty people about whether or not he's a four. I think he probably should play with a shooting five. And he's inside. So then you still have the goes.

[Bill Simmons]

To Washington, like plays with Sar and Sar could be the shop.

[Tate Frazier]

There you go.

[Anthony DeBundo]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't. The NBA feels like there are all these like weird, talented, flawed big men now that it's almost like this new era of the situational big man. The Clingan's like this on Portland. Edie's definitely like this on Memphis. Luke Cornett's like this on the Celtics. These guys that make sense only in certain situations or matchups. And then you see them and they're good and then they might not even play the next time. Tate, what's your next one?

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, hyper specific roles. My next one. You love the 2000s Michigan State team that went the Flintstones. So I like the Flintstone kids. Jace Richardson, Jason Richardson's son. He is starring for Michigan State. Tom Izzo has the toughness with this group. He basically said last year he's going to die trying to get Michigan State another national championship. And I believe in Bill and I think. Right.

[Bill Simmons]

He might actually die. Yeah. Actually might not make it.

[Tate Frazier]

He's fighting for his life out there. And this team, while they're not all from Flint, Michigan, they do have the toughness, the mental makeup and they have bench points galore. This team does not have a guy they have a lot. They do it by committee. It's the team. The team to team RIP Gene Hackman. But that's what Michigan State is this year. And I do feel like this group is on their way to making a special run. And it's very cool to cut to the crowd, see Mateen Cleave, see Jason Richardson watching his son play. And every single time they need like a big buzz bucket to kind of get them going. It does feel like it is Jace Richardson. So I like that connective tissue and I like the storyline of the Flintstone kids. So I think that's a fun one to watch.

[Bill Simmons]

Tough bracket for them.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, tough draw. Tough draw. But Auburn, I mean, they're susceptible to a team that actually plays and sticks together as a team. And I feel like that would be the sell against Auburn if they get matched up with them in the Elite eight.

[Bill Simmons]

Kyle, what's your next one?

[Kyle Mann]

That. That's a good transition there to my next one, which is really fun. Secondary guards. You know, you mentioned Jace. Jace really interesting because he doesn't play anything like his dad. I was trying to think of father son combos. It's like Steph kind of played like Dell. You could go down the line. Yeah. Jace doesn't have the same physical tools Jason did. He's more of a. He's more of a cerebral secondary guard who just has this really wide ranging skill set. Another one that I know.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like Bronnie and LeBron. Like Bronnie's game is totally different than LeBron's.

[Kyle Mann]

Yeah. And it's clearly just a choice, you know. Yeah, yeah. No, one of the. One of the interesting. And I know Tate, I know this is going to happen is people are going to watch Auburn and they're going to go, why isn't to Hod Pettiford a lottery pick? This is going to happen. Mark it down because he's the. He is one of the smoothest handlers, scores, has crazy middle game. There's a little dilling, Dilling Dillingham kind of a thing going on with him where he can really handle the ball. Super skilled. He might be the most talented guy on the team. He probably is, honestly. And he's in their second unit. So Auburn has this old first unit that is very connected and good and guards. And then they have the most talented player on the team coming in in the second unit and he gets to just play freely and if he's going, he plays with the first unit. So that's one to keep an eye on. He's. He's a fun, fun player.

[Bill Simmons]

I was thinking in the Bachelor, in the first, like, couple episodes, somebody will make it get, like, the last rose that you can tell. The person didn't want to pick, but they had. The producers are like, you gotta keep them. Gotta give the lady a rose because we need her for the next episode because she'll be really good. I wish there were producer picks for March Madness where somebody could have done that with Rutgers and be like, yeah, look, I know they didn't qualify, but we gotta producers pick them. We're gonna make them 15th seed. We needed those two guys in the tournament. Like, it's outrageous that they're not in there. Right there in the ringer draft. Aces four, Dylan's two. And they're not. We didn't get to see them at all. It's frustrating. Tate.

[Tate Frazier]

I like a captain's pick. Like what we do for the Ryder Cup. We do that for the ncaa. Yeah, we have. We have a captain of the tournament. We select like a celebrity this year. Condoleezza Rice is our captain. Condoleezza rides. Who does she want? She wants Rutgers. And Rutgers comes firing into the pick is great.

[Bill Simmons]

Like, we have no rules in college basketball anymore anyway. Couldn't they captains pick somebody and just cram them in for the first four? I don't know.

[Tate Frazier]

I love that. I mean, look, Ace Bailey had a great game at Indiana this year. That was probably like his go to tape. Yeah, Kyle man was in the building for that one at Assembly Hall. Dylan Harper, I mean, he showed flashes of why people thought he could be potentially a number one pick candidate. It does suck that they're not in the conversation. And I'm with you. Let's get a captain's pick. Let's get him in.

[Bill Simmons]

What's your next one, Tate?

[Tate Frazier]

Next one. I'm going to be fair because we talked bad about Coach K and Duke before, but I do think it's obvious, and maybe it's ridiculous, we haven't even said it yet, but the flagship, the main character from Maine, Cooper Flag is the story. Cooper Flag is the headline. Cooper Flag, New Balance. That he was the intelligent choice. Right? So that goes back to the Athenian kind of aspect of this team. He's a thinking man. He's got the best IQ on the floor, but also he's a Spartan. He wants to kill you and he enjoys killing you, and he enjoys watching it. You talk about a killer instinct. This guy is different. He loves Christian Laettner. His parents obviously have instilled him with The Laitner kind of mindset. He went down with that ankle injury. Everybody was worried. I was not. This is the kind of guy that he is. He's tough. He doesn't really care about anything else other than winning. I think that Duke, this is like if you could build someone in a laboratory to go get you the title that you need this decade. Cooper Flag is that guy. And it's almost a disservice that he's not getting more coverage because he is that good and he's that much of a winner. So it's ridiculous he's been this far down our docket. But the flagship Cooper Flag, you know.

[Bill Simmons]

Phenomenal bench reactions from him too. And he's not playing. I mean, some of the best just like really harkens back to Cobra Kai and Karate Kid 1. Like some of a couple of the guys on there just coming forward.

[Kyle Mann]

Yeah, Cooper would have been in Cobra Kai.

[Bill Simmons]

He would have been awesome.

[Tate Frazier]

He would have crushed.

[Kyle Mann]

You'd see him with the matted hair and the headband. Yeah, it's 100%.

[Anthony DeBundo]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Duke's fascinating because they're like a real basketball team.

[Kyle Mann]

Oh, yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I mean like. Like a real one. Like they could come in, you know, could they win eight games of the NBA? Like, maybe. But they have a lot of different pieces. The seven foot two guy, so he popped up in our ring or draft guide, but he's had some moments where you go, wait, what's going on here? Like, this is not hashim to beat. Like, he could move his feet, he could go side to side. He can guard guards from 20ft away. I was impressed by him. And then you know how I feel about Knipple. I just. He's going to go six spots too late. He'll go like 16 or 17. It's going to be annoying. I'm just telling you now. People are going to talk themselves out of him and he'll have like a 12 year career. Like, there's no question that guy is going to be a good basketball player in the NBA. I'm positive. But he has six rounds late.

[Tate Frazier]

Six. Four little brothers and they all have insane names that start with K. It's like Cager, like Knife. Like they're all like the most.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, it's like one of those families. Yeah, you like though. You got to get in on those families.

[Kyle Mann]

Parents, college basketball players.

[Tate Frazier]

Oh, they're studs.

[Kyle Mann]

Another. Another mom who played. That's a really fun kind of trend among young players that we get is these really competitive moms. Like, you know Like Kelly Flag, Reed Shepherd's mom, last year. You talk to anybody, they'd be like, Reed's mom is like the fire. Like, it's. It's a very.

[Tate Frazier]

It's something that we're seeing more.

[Kyle Mann]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. It's an interesting trend that's. That's happened lately.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm counting on Kelly Flagg, who's a massive, gigantic Celtics fan.

[Tate Frazier]

Oh, yeah, she's got a plan.

[Bill Simmons]

Kyle, turn the TikTok camera on. I'm counting on Kelly Flagg to stick to her guns. The Celtics, a team that she loves very, very much. We have never seen somebody come into the NBA draft and just play out their rookie contract, pass up that. Oh, I better take that one. No, no. He loves the Celtics. Five years, just plays with whoever drafts him, jumps right to the Celtics by age 24. We're waiting for him. We're going to have the cap space ready. We got a new owner. Come home. Come home, Cooper, you don't even have an NBA team yet. Come home to Boston. We're waiting for you.

[Tate Frazier]

I can't wait till they tell Cooper Flagg about Bird rights. And he's like, yeah, these are my Bird rights. I'm going to the Celtics.

[Bill Simmons]

The right move is to be Larry Bird. But, like, seriously, if you love the team that much, what do you want to play for them? I always feel like, I don't know. I'm holding out hope. Tate, if you could have played Div 1 college basketball, you would have played at UNC?

[Tate Frazier]

Absolutely. 100%.

[Bill Simmons]

You would have gone, like, to NC State. You would have gone to UNC.

[Tate Frazier]

I would have go to Carolina, and I would have tampered. And every recruit on campus, they would have had the best time they ever had. I promise you that. Andrew Wiggins would have been a Tar Heel.

[Bill Simmons]

This has been Tate's case. This has been Tate's case for Steph for the last 10 years. And Steph's now 37 and still on Golden State, so I don't know if. I don't know.

[Tate Frazier]

Maybe I'm Twitter every once in a while, just, like, pictures of the Hornets and, like, where I'm like, this could be you hanging in the rafters.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I wonder if. If Charlotte got flagged. It does kind of, you know. Cause they're already talking about the Warriors. It's a. It's a two, three year plan here with the Draymond, Steph, and Butler contracts. So who knows? Maybe age 40 staff comes to play with Lamelo.

[Tate Frazier]

Lamelo Redemption. Tour there.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Kate's moving back. You're moving back.

[Tate Frazier]

If that happens, I'm going back for the one season. The farewell tour. For sure.

[Kyle Mann]

I was going to say, wasn't Donovan Clingan. He's. He's a Celtics fan, right? Didn't he, like, have some kind of fist pump moment in the draft room? Because his mom and Kelly.

[Bill Simmons]

We're not turning on the TikTok camera for him, Kyle.

[Kyle Mann]

Well, Kelly Flagg and Don McClinkan's mom actually played together in college.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, I'm turning it back on. That sounds great. Maybe the two of them together finally.

[Tate Frazier]

The 45 combo. I love it.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm with you on Duke, though, that we. It's been a while. I mean, we've had fun, different versions of teams, but it's a team that at least has a little bit of the Florida late 2000s or I guess mid 2000s feel where you're just like, man, all these guys are really good.

[Tate Frazier]

And yes, they're kind of do. Right. I mean, 2019 with Zion, Reddish and RJ, that was a team that probably should have won the national championship. They lose The Michigan State 2022, they're on a collision course to win the championship on a wooden storyline for Coach K. They have to go up against Carolina. They lose with Ban Caro. So it does feel like third time's the charm. Like Cooper flag is kind of infallible. As he goes on this run like Paolo, there's a little bit of like, he's gonna be the number one pick. Who cares? Zion sort of the same deal. Plus there was the infighting of who gets the most shots, RJ or Zion. This team, they don't care who gets the shots and neither does Cooper and they win regardless. So I do feel like they're kind of the perfect version of a Duke team.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, you think that 2019 team, it was more a collection of assets than a team.

[Kyle Mann]

Oh, it was horrible.

[Bill Simmons]

That wasn't a team that made sense as a basketball team. The Duke team, you watch, you're like, shit. All right, they need size. Let's play flag in the 72 guy together. You know, they just seems like they have an answer for everything. I'm disappointed in Caleb Foster's and playing more because I thought he's playing better defense.

[Tate Frazier]

He's coming in. They got him now as like buying in. Just kind of the defensive X factor.

[Bill Simmons]

I know he was such a good high school player, though.

[Tate Frazier]

I'm.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm keeping my stock with him. Kyle, what do you Got for your next one.

[Kyle Mann]

Well, I was. I'm with you. I'm. I'm disappointed. I'm also disappointed that Tate would say that Duke is due. I just. My skin crawled when you.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that did. That was ugly.

[Tate Frazier]

I mean, I'm trying to stop it.

[Bill Simmons]

Tate's older. He's a scratch handicap. And golf now. Do you guys have good. Tate is at golf. There's this whole Tate golf thing happening.

[Tate Frazier]

I'm. I'm. I. I appreciate that. It's moving its way through the world.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, dad was like, just like, we played golf with Tate today. What. What in the hell? Like, he couldn't believe how good Tate was.

[Tate Frazier]

Maybe.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe we need to do, like, a golf series with you, Tate, where you just play golf with, like, famous NBA players. We just shoot it with, like, cool cameras.

[Tate Frazier]

How about we do Steph Curry and then I basically pitch him on the Hornets the entire round.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, you play golf and you. And you pitch weird things to.

[Tate Frazier]

I'm like an old assistant coach with, like, the. The National Letter of Intent. I'm just trying to get him to sign the paper. I'm like, hey, Steph, can you sign the scorecard?

[Kyle Mann]

But it's carbon contact paper. Oops. I do Rights over.

[Bill Simmons]

I like. All right, we'll pitch it. What's your next one, Kyle?

[Kyle Mann]

This one is more of a. You know, Tate and I, we. We tried to get. You were Talking about the St. John's and the Arkansas game. I. I try not to. I try to sort of put the. Like, a curtain over the unsavory parts of the game, because we want to market the best version of this. This is more advice for. For the casual college basketball fan. If you find yourself watching. We all know YouTube TV is just. It's all over the place. It's the dominant way to watch these games. Now, if you're not watching through the site, whatever. But when you turn on a college basketball game, my advice is to pause it for 10 to 15 minutes, go make yourself a drink, go make yourself a snack, maybe talk to your kids. You know, do something productive. And you're. And you start on your taxes. I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

Whatever.

[Tate Frazier]

I like this.

[Bill Simmons]

Go on a Reddit board and slam somebody you don't like. It's 15 minutes. You can do that.

[Kyle Mann]

Shit. Yeah, Just go send somebody's Twitter replies, say some shit.

[Bill Simmons]

You have 15 minutes to kill.

[Tate Frazier]

Yeah, go for it.

[Kyle Mann]

Do this. Because the college review system is just completely broken in a way that is awful. It's like getting a. It's just like getting a full body tattoo with. It's horrible. It's horrible. So do that. Because once we get to that portion of the game, they're going to be reviewing literally every single out of bounds call they need to fix it. So I want you guys to have a good time, so just maybe have a snack break. Just prepare yourself for that. Pause the game so that you can skip right through all that stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

This is my number one pet peeve in all sports now is this. I went to OKC Clipper Sunday night and it was an awesome game. It was so good. And it was super physical and athletic and really competitive. And then all of a sudden the refs are like, you know what? It'll be cool. Let's just slow this down like four different times with long fucking reviews of nothing. And the funniest thing is they're reviewing some things, but then other things aren't reviewable but are just as important to the game. So it's like, oh, I can't review that. I missed it when it happened. And we're not allowed to review that. But Let me spend 10 minutes on this. I hate it. I just hate it. Nobody likes it. Why did we turn into a sport where we do stuff where nobody likes something and they're like, let's double down twice as much? I don't get it.

[Tate Frazier]

It's terrible. And Derek Thompson, when he was on, he was talking about how, like, we've gotten too efficient. And I agree with that wholeheartedly. The humanity of getting a call wrong, I'm almost okay with now. You know what I mean? I could just live with the fact that we got it wrong in the moment and it looked like it was off on this guy. But let's just play the game. And if you're a coach now in college basketball, you don't even take your time out. Or you can take your timeouts early because you don't have to worry about at the end of the game, you're going to get at least two or three reviews. So you get free timeouts. So it basically cheats. Beats the game for, like the coaching aspect of timeouts too. So it, it, it sucks on both sides of the coin, unfortunately.

[Bill Simmons]

I hate it. The announcers are so terrible because they have no idea what to talk about. They're just narrating the video that we've seen five times. I don't know. I mean, you could say it touched his tip there. I.

[Tate Frazier]

Let's bring in Stereotor. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Worst content. Like they should be bringing in like Shane Gillis and Bill Burr to like during the reviews to just do three minutes of comedy.

[Tate Frazier]

That would be great.

[Kyle Mann]

Just roast them.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I have one I'm going to throw in with you guys because you, you did all yours. The. I'm, I think Edgecomb. Some really interesting moment right now because where do we have them three in our draft guide? Um, and I just feel like prospects in the NBA like that are like quarterbacks in the NFL or they should earth Sanders, he's probably like around 20 and then the draft comes and the thing everybody wants the most as a quarterback and in the NBA the thing you want most, unless you get somebody like flag the thing you want or, or somebody who's a dominant perimeter offensive player, like those are the two things no brainer. If you have a chance to get a LUCA or a flag like you're just doing it. The next thing you need beyond that are these, these awesome athletes. Swing men who can switch on everything and who could potentially become like a real offensive player. And it's. I don't know what he's missing. So is, is there, what is he missing? Kyle?

[Kyle Mann]

He's just a lot of the intangibles that are kind of athleticism driven are the things that you're going to bank on in the short term. And I think they're going to keep him on the floor. The only thing that are missing are the things like handling and shooting the ball, which are not in bad places. Like he's not one of these raw athletes that comes in that offers those things and then they're just a total disaster. Like an Osr Thompson. You're like, holy, holy shit. I mean his first year was like a generationally bad three point shooting season. He's smaller than those guys at like 6:2, but he's like a Victor Oladipo type athlete. The big thing for him is half court athleticism. He doesn't need to be out in open space to impact the game. You know, he rebounds his position insanely well. He gets a lot of half court dunks. You hear people talk about that. I think that the upside for him, even if he doesn't become a superstar, he's going to be a really, really. Because he's the best overall explosive athlete in this class. He has those moments. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh good.

[Kyle Mann]

Well, I was just going to say the only other player I've had this happen twice since I've been covering the draft that they tried such insane things with when they were trying to finish is him and Ja Morant. I had a whole folder of places like, I can't believe Ja tried to jump from here to finish this play. Edge Home is in that stratosphere of I'll try anything. He's fearless. And he's a smart player, too. He held his own with the Bahamian national team, right?

[Bill Simmons]

So if he's 6 8, this is a no brainer. He's the number two pick, but he's listed at 6 5. I went to the Clipper game Sunday night where Lou Dort, who's like literally six two and can guard everybody and every. Like, he guarded Jalen Brown in the Celtics game, who's 6 8, like 2:40. And he just completely locked them down. So I don't know. I think he's. I think he's pretty interesting. All right, guys.

[Tate Frazier]

Sometimes it's like tall versus wide, you know what I mean? Like, Lou Dorsey's like, I'm wide. So, like, it doesn't matter if I'm.

[Bill Simmons]

Like a tight end. Any. Any last prediction before we go? What do you got, Tate?

[Tate Frazier]

Last one. I think that Duke is going to win the national championship, but watch out for Houston. We did not talk about Houston. Houston's a fun team. Giannis Antetokounmpo adopted them under the guise of Akeem Olajuwon a few years ago, and he went down to Houston. So, like, I kind of like the Houston Mo. They're a Jordan Brand school, so we didn't bring them up. So if it's not Duke, I think the Houston Cougars can stop them. And they got a little bit of redemption last year. They had their best player get hurt in the tournament against Duke. So watch out for Houston. That would be my last thing.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you got?

[Kyle Mann]

Kyle, I love you had to bring up Jordan, but you're so on Brand. Tate, you had to mention. Why did you have to mention that? They're Jordan Brand.

[Bill Simmons]

He's the goat. He's only the best player ever, you know.

[Tate Frazier]

Thank you, Bill.

[Bill Simmons]

Sometimes you got to do it.

[Kyle Mann]

No, I was going to tack on to that on my oddities list. I didn't mention Houston has a guy who has longest arms on earth. JoJo Tugler. He's an undersized five at the college level at like 6, 8, 6 9, but. But he has an incredible plus wingspan. You'll see him immediately if you watch the games. But, man, they defend. Holy moly. Like, if you. If you had to, you could just sell a workout trying to dribble the ball against Houston's defense. Like, I. It has to Be exhausting to play them, but I agree with Tate. They're. They're going to be a really tough out.

[Bill Simmons]

Any last prediction?

[Kyle Mann]

I'm. I'm kind of with him. I kind of. There is an inevitability about Duke right now that. That feels. That feels really strong. I think Cal is going to make the Final Four. That would be my prediction. I think the bracket is good for him. I think it could happen.

[Bill Simmons]

So the most shocking thing would be Duke winning basically any round before the last game. Okay. All right.

[Tate Frazier]

I like it.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, look, look forward to continuing, hearing and reading you guys, following the tournament. Tate Cowman, great to see you.

[Tate Frazier]

Thanks, Bill.

[Kyle Mann]

Thanks.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, Anthony De Bundo is here. We're going to talk MLB futures and a little bit of a gambling preview before we do that. I heard you on Ringer Gambling Show. Can you tell my audience the thing you did on Ringer Gambling show about the elite offenses in March Madness and why you thought that was part of the dominance for this year so far?

[Anthony DeBundo]

Yeah, I mean, so we saw a ton of favorites do really well. And if you had looked through kind of the numbers of the field before, when the bracket first came out, the number 1, 2, 3, 4 seeds, they were all basically as strong as they've ever been. And a lot of it had to do with the fact that offensive efficiency in college basketball is through the roof basically better than it's been in the last decade or so. And you know, we only have data for about 20 years on that from Ken Palm. But Basically there are 17 teams this year that have a 120 or above offensive efficiency according to Ken Pomeroy last year.

[Bill Simmons]

So that's like for the, for the NBA, that's like Cavs, Celtics kind of level offensive efficiency.

[Anthony DeBundo]

Right. And that normally would be like 5 to 10. You'd get like 5 or 10 elite offenses and everybody else would just be good to great. This year it's 17. So I think that was the big thing that drove the first weekend. And then you combine that with all of the underdogs and pretty much everybody shot the ball poorly from three the first weekend. Yeah, there were conspiracy theorying about the balls and the rims and whatnot, but really it just. The math gets really hard to win as an underdog if you're facing these juggernaut offenses.

[Bill Simmons]

So you think it's just generationally these guys are just all getting better at shooting threes. Like, what are the reasons the. Or the teams are just too loaded? What would be your biggest reason?

[Anthony DeBundo]

I think Some of it is there's kind of filter effects. Right? We've seen this in the NBA and you talk about this on your show. The NBA is as good offensively as it's been ever. And maybe the sport has been solved to a certain extent where RIM3 and analytics because even the best teams now play this analytical style where it's rim and three shots. We're not going to take contested mid range twos. And it used to be that the mid majors could get an edge if they were really smart about it, if they shot a lot of threes. But now everybody does it. Everybody has the rim and three style and they're doing it with just better athletes in these high major schools. And so I think it's harder now. Like you look at a team like Alabama and you know Nate Oates is running the ultimate math ball down there and it's just really hard to beat a team like that or a team, you know, like a, like a Duke who has elite shooters all over the floor and elite rim protectors at the rim. Good luck.

[Bill Simmons]

Any, any sleepers or things? You're looking at it. Tate and Kyle were just on and were saying they liked Arkansas for final 410 to 1 as a possible long shot. Bet anything you were looking at for the next couple rounds.

[Anthony DeBundo]

We joked on ringer gambling show like I think Duke and Houston like a parlay to win their region. I really don't see anybody stopping us from getting a semifinal of those two teams. I think you could see more chaos on the other side. Florida looked a little vulnerable. I like Texas Tech. They were my final four pick from that region. I still think they look great but their best shooter, they keep saying he's healthy and then not playing him and they, they're being very cagey about it. Chance McMillan. So I don't know what to do with, with that region. But yeah, the sleepers is a tough call this year because it just feels like we're going to get three or four one seeds in the final four.

[Bill Simmons]

So Duke, Houston plus 174 on FanDuel right now. That's a fun one. I'm going to do that. Okay. MLB starting. I mean it started already. Now it's starting again. They played these two games in, in Japan and they count and this time the Dodgers actually won both of them. But where do you we. I asked you to come up with five favorite bets as kind of a preview for, for the big season. A L N L doesn't really matter. So give me, give me your first Favorite MLB bit that you're looking at.

[Anthony DeBundo]

Well, I'm not going to beat the allegations that I'm playing to the home crowd here, but are you buying in on the Red Sox? Are you like, what do we need to do to get Bill bought in on Boston? I'm getting excited.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, let's hear the case.

[Anthony DeBundo]

So I think they're finally. So there were some things happening under the hood with Boston over the last couple years that make me think they're on the forefront of things with baseball and the way things are trending. So last year, the big story of baseball, or one of the bigger stories behind the scenes, was that fastballs became unpopular relative to what they used to be. It used to be we want to hunt the guys with the best fastballs. We wanted them to throw as hard as they can with the best stuff possible. And Boston said, what if we get a staff of guys and we focus on sinkers and cutters and junk ballers? And so Boston kind of started a trend away from the fastball. Exactly. And baseball has kind of followed them a little bit on it. That's an encouraging sign. So they're on the forefront of something. And then the other big thing is this whole Rafael Devers third base situation where he's kind of a butcher over at third. Incredible bat, but he's been one of the worst defensive third basers in the league.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a slow nudge. We're just slowly nudging him toward the DH spot, just being careful.

[Anthony DeBundo]

But they've been one of the worst defenses in baseball for the last three seasons. And last year got a little better this year with Bregman at third. Endeavors at DHing second base was for them defensively.

[Bill Simmons]

We're not officially saying that yet. We're saying, oh, no, Devers is still. We're just. We're trying to handle his ego carefully. Right.

[Anthony DeBundo]

And it is hard. I mean, if I'm, you know, Devers his age, it's pretty early to get moved to Dharma. And once you get moved to dh, you don't come back. Especially because Boston already has a first baseman they like in Casas. So I think Boston improving defensively at a key position at third base, improving and getting younger at second base, spending a ton of money slash trade capital to acquire frontline pitchers so that they're not just reliant on these kind of cutters.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, crochet. Seems like he crochets. They've been out of their mind with how good he's been, and that was a great trade. You know, I think people are frustrated. They weren't spending money, but they ended up belatedly spending money on Bregman. But the crochet thing seems like that might have been actually a great trade.

[Anthony DeBundo]

Right. And now with the situation at the top of the division with the Yankees kind of taking on some water here, I think I like Boston. Over 86 and a half wins and to win the American League east plus 270, I am buying on Boston. And it's again, it's the little things like hey, we're going to worry about defense. Hey, we're going to be ahead on this pitching thing. The bullpen is still a little iffy, but I think from a rotation and bats perspective, I think they might be the most well rounded team in this division.

[Bill Simmons]

So they're plus two 60 to win the A to, to win the Al East. I thought on FanDuel they're 90 win number is plus one 38, which I thought was intriguing. I don't know why he just wouldn't bet the 86 and a half over that. But yeah, there's some, there's some positivity. It's interesting, especially with some of the young guys they have. They were voted the best farm system in baseball. Campbell's made the roster, he's going to play. They have Roman Anthony waiting and it feels like they have some, some moves maybe to do in June, July, whether they wanted to trade for one more veteran or maybe even, you know, maybe, maybe you move Devers at that point and try to flip him for another big money dude that plays a different position. I don't know. They're way more interesting than they were. And then stories back.

[Anthony DeBundo]

Tristan Cassis was in the middle of a bit of a breakout before he got injured and ended up missing most of the second half. So another big bat, power and patience in this lineup. Bregman is such a true pro, A great vet who has a great eye like there's discipline to this lineup. And you know, Jaron Duran went from couldn't see a fly ball and it was hit to him. He just got lost. And they would, you know, give up inside the park home runs to actually grading out as one of the best defensive players in the sport last year. So it's, it's been quite a turnaround and I think there's real things happening in Boston.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, we don't. The Darren thing, was it a one year superstar fluke or is this just who he is now? There's a lot of good storylines with them and you know, the fact that the Yankees, it looks like arrow pointing down. And then Baltimore, who I can't believe they have worse odds to win the division in Boston, it seemed like Baltimore is going to be a juggernaut for the rest of the decade. So who knows?

[Anthony DeBundo]

Yeah. Baltimore's best players starting the season on the il they lost their best pitcher.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Not sure they're close to. Yeah, it's.

[Anthony DeBundo]

Baltimore is the kind of team where we look back and they're not there yet. I'm not saying right off Baltimore, they still have a ton of young talent, but it feels like they're in danger of not capitalizing on just how much young talent they have. And that's where I'm a little concerned about them. Like if you look at their rotation now on paper.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Anthony DeBundo]

The injury to Grayson Rodriguez, their ace, you're all of a sudden not sure how they get all of these great lineups out in the American League.

[Bill Simmons]

The other case with that over under with the Red Sox is they really lost the narrative in Boston the last few years and the Celtics just leapfrog them in the biggest possible way. And there's still the huge hockey fan base. Then Drake May shows up for the Pats and, and they, you know, I just felt like it was heading the wrong direction and maybe this is their chance to oh, you don't think we're still the Red Sox? And then they blow it up. All right, what's your next thing?

[Anthony DeBundo]

What does that. What does bot.

[Tate Frazier]

What.

[Anthony DeBundo]

What is you being back in on Boston look like for you? Like, are you going to be watching games? Are you going to be checking in first half of the season, second half of the season?

[Bill Simmons]

When they traded for crochet, I got excited. I did because I was just like, really? They don't give a shit about this team anymore. Trying to make it better. And they did that. The Bregman thing almost felt like I think it was an overpay considering, you know, what the production has been the last six years. But he's still, oh, a good right handed hitter who might be awesome in Fenway. He's a pro. I think he's been important for the leadership for them. So I get it. Did they overpay for him a little? Probably. But it's. There's definitely a look the lineup has more balance and it's going to be fun to see how they integrate the young guys. So yeah. Am I ready to jump back on the. On the. Watching it every day and watching what happens bandwagon? I am. I Think I've officially licked my wounds from the Mookie Bets trade because the Luca trade made the Mookie Bets trade seem like a walk in the park. Like it's hard to even get mad anymore. All right, what's your next bet?

[Anthony DeBundo]

All right, so we're going to call them the bad good team who may have missed their window. And it's we're going to stay in the division. Let's talk about the Yankees. I took their under 90 and a half before the Cole injury. I like their 88 and a half under even more after the Cole injury. And I get the idea that, hey, maybe it's become a little too trendy. Everybody's saying this could be a down year for the Yankees. I just pulled up the Athletics season predictions and like two people on their staff picked the Yankees to win the American League. So maybe we forgot that they were the best team last year, but I think they really come back to the pack. And I pulled up their stats. They had five above average hitters last year. Most of the summer it was kind of just Soto and Judge, Soto and Judge and Stanton sometimes. But Gleyber Torres has gone. He was a productive player for them. Despite the fan base desire, Juan Soto is a force multiplier of a loss. Stanton's already hurt. Cole's already hurt. Done for the year. Rookie of the year Luis Heel, he is going to miss. He's on the 60 day il he's got an issue. Clark Schmidt comes down with a shoulder problem. And now you're looking around and this roster is very, very thin. In a American league that's very, very deep with above average to competitive teams, there's no, there's no elite teams. Miamib power rankings, the top five are all National League this year. Yeah, that there's a lot of teams between like 6 and 15. And I kind of think the Yankees are just one of those teams in that mix this year.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I'm in that crazy ale keeper league with my friend Hench again and we had Ben Rice for $5 trying to decide, oh, is this, he might actually get a batch. Let's at least do the process. And look at him. And it's like he's starting against righties for the Yankees. The guy hit like 180 last year. So that, that was the first time I was like, oh man, this, where, where is this going? Like Marcus Stroman's actually going to, going to start for them and, and they're trying to get like 180 innings at him. I don't know. It seems like they're. It seems like a transition year potentially. And I gotta be honest, nothing would make me happier because I get to torture Jack O and JJ and the other Yankees and fans of my life.

[Anthony DeBundo]

JJ doesn't seem too confident. We talk off air a lot about.

[Bill Simmons]

This and he does not.

[Anthony DeBundo]

He's not feeling too confident.

[Bill Simmons]

He's not happy. He's not happy. It reminds me a little of, remember the Cowboys April, May, June, when all of us were like, wow, that over, under is way too high. I don't think they're going to be very good. Yeah. And then they actually had to move the over, under, down. And then we got toward the season and people tried to start talking themselves back into them. It's like, I don't know, man. I don't not seeing it. And then they weren't good. It feels a little like that.

[Anthony DeBundo]

That's actually exactly what I did, where I was like, I don't know about Dallas this year. And then it got so low. I was like, are we sure they're this bad? And it turns out they were. And there are parallels. I mean, I mean, Dak going down for two thirds of the season didn't help, but that's like the Coal injuries. And then a lot of just, we're not so sure about the depth on this roster. And you know, they tried to plug the Soto loss as best as they could. Cody Bellinger is a fine player. Devin Williams is an elite closer. Max Freed's a very good starting pitcher, but like the net net is a pretty big loss. And the thing, you know, Soto as protection for Judge, the story was always, we can't protect Judge in this lineup. And so Soto was always on base. It's a major reason why Judge led the league in RBI last year.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Anthony DeBundo]

And I think Alonso, Pete Alonso in New York has a chance to do it this year just solely because he's going to hit third behind Juan Soto and Lindor. So I think the Yankees are, you know, an 85, 86 wild card team this year. I don't see them winning this division. I think the Orioles are better and I think the Red Sox are better.

[Bill Simmons]

That sounds great. I love how we started this. All right, you have three more.

[Anthony DeBundo]

All right, we're going to go with the good bad team. They don't have a city officially, but I'm calling them the Sacramento A's. Over 71 and a half. They're just the athletics this year.

[Bill Simmons]

Over 71 and a half.

[Anthony DeBundo]

They're the good bad team. Yeah, I really like the A's and it sounds crazy. You're like, you know, this team was an embarrassment two years ago. The ownership is an embarrassment. What they did to Oakland is a joke. But in terms of the actual on the field product, I'm kind of buying in. And they were a.500 team after the deadline last year. They got multiple breakouts from guys like JJ Bladet and Lawrence Butler who kind of came out of nowhere and put together really impressive seasons. Brent Rooker's the best hitter in baseball that the casual fan doesn't know about. And the other part of this offense that I'm excited about, they're moving out of Oakland, which was a terrible park for hitters. And now in Sacramento, it's just an average park, you know, it's not like they're going to not have home fans like the fan base, you know, whatever. And I think this is an above average lineup. And in fact, in my power rankings, I put offensive ranking in each Blurb. I have 13. I think they're a real offense that could slug their way to a.500 record, would you think?

[Bill Simmons]

Plus 350 for the A's to win 80 plus games on FanDuel. Does that intrigue you at all?

[Anthony DeBundo]

It kind of does. And I'll give you a player for your AL breakout team.

[Bill Simmons]

Your.

[Anthony DeBundo]

Your keeper team. Tyler Soderstrom. He might already be owned, but he last season in about 200 plate appearances showed everything that you want to see in a potential future slugger. Patience, power, really impressive, like barrel rates and such. So he was an above average hitter at age 23 in 200 at bats with the A's who were not a competitive team. Those are the kind of guys that could power this offense. And to their credit, they did spend money. They went out and bought Luis Severino and Jeffrey Springs to give themselves like a real floor as a pitching rotation. And so now I think they're not going to, you know, be a true dumpster fire like they've been the last couple of years.

[Bill Simmons]

The whole thing where they drop their first name is almost unparalleled. I can't remember anything remotely like that before. Even when you look at them on the different betting odds. Yeah, it just says Athletics. Yeah, it's. You're right. It's like Washington football team, which they should have kept.

[Anthony DeBundo]

It was pretty funny.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. All right, what's your next one? I like that. I like all three of these so far.

[Anthony DeBundo]

All right, next one. I'm going back to my tried and true There was a brief pause last season. We took a break while Atlanta's entire team was injured. But the Atlanta Braves, not just to win the NL east, which I think they're down to like + 110, 120, but to also get a first round buy, which is at + 160 at FanDuel.

[Bill Simmons]

You can bet on that. I didn't even notice that one. First round by betting. Wow. You waiting six months to find out if you got a buy.

[Anthony DeBundo]

That's great.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm doing that.

[Anthony DeBundo]

There's such an imbalance in baseball, especially in the National League. Not as much in the American League, but basically the five best teams, six honestly, with the Padres, the Diamondbacks, the Dodgers, the Padres, Phillies, the Mets and the Braves all play in the west and the east divisions. The Central is kind of, we'll say mediocre. That. We'll say that.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Anthony DeBundo]

And so basically, since Major League Baseball changed the format to we're going to have six teams in, we're going to give out two buys like the old football format used to be. The top two division winners get the buys. All three years in the National League, it's been whoever wins the east and whoever wins the west. Because to win those divisions you need to win 95 games. And there's just no way that the Central teams can get there. So I kind of see it as the same bet. Maybe the Cubs or the brewers or the Cardinals come out of nowhere and win 95 games. That would really shock me. But it feels like whoever wins the east and whoever. And probably the Dodgers in the west will just be the two teams that get the buy. So plus 160 on Atlanta is. Is where I go on that. And I think we're getting a bit of a discount on the Braves. I mean, I love this division. It's going to be so much fun. I've got my Phillies, of course, and Mets, who I would never bet on. But Strider's coming back.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Anthony DeBundo]

Venture Schwellenbach is a dark horse Cy Young candidate. He's down to 25 to 1, but he's basically been. He was a top 10 pitcher in the league from July onward. And so I'm in on the Braves as kind of the Don't Forget about us team because they're the only team. I can really see going seven games with the Dodgers and actually seeing a path to them beating the Dodgers. If everybody's healthy, like, you know, you could. It's baseball, right? Anything could happen. But to actually beat the Dodgers and To say, that team I would go to war with, they're the only team I kind of see doing it right now.

[Bill Simmons]

Do the Dodgers to win a record 117 plus regular season games at plus 6, 30 intrigue you at all? That's a lot of wins, man. You. You don't only have to have 45 losses there.

[Anthony DeBundo]

I already have two. Two wins in the bank. There you go.

[Bill Simmons]

Right.

[Anthony DeBundo]

I. I can't see it. I mean, have you seen the stuff about Mookie Betts?

[Bill Simmons]

What happened?

[Anthony DeBundo]

He's lost.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, the weight loss. Yeah, he had some weird virus wrong with him.

[Anthony DeBundo]

Yeah, he, like, can't keep food down. He made the trip to Tokyo but didn't play. And. Yeah, there's a lot of weird things happening with him and Freddie Freeman. Yeah, Freddy's got this elbow thing and he's, you know, he didn't play the. The Series either. They still won without them, so I guess, you know, who needs them? But they do need them, Right? And this lineup is older, so if you wanted to kind of make the zag case against the Dodgers, they were the oldest lineup in baseball last year. They're not getting younger with their current core, but, yeah, the pitching is so deep that they could. They could with a couple injuries. It's insane.

[Bill Simmons]

And I gotta say, the Dodger fans, voids like them, always gotten along with them. I always thought they had a great fan base. Little cocky lately. Not going to lie. Little cocky. I've had to. I was with the Dodger fan recently, and I had to remind he was talking about two World Series this decade already. I was like, that first one doesn't count. Nobody's counting that.

[Anthony DeBundo]

Nobody.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a fake World series. It's got seven asterisks next to it. And you won the one in 81. That was the strike season. Like, you have two asterisk titles. Settle down.

[Anthony DeBundo]

Well, the one thing is, the problem with the Dodgers has always been they go 162, they're the best team, but then they kind of run out of gas. And in that season, that 2020 season, they didn't have to go the full 162. It was only 60 games. And so they had. They were. They was as healthy as they've ever been going into the playoffs this year. They do have a lot of risky bets with their pitching. I mean, Sasaki is awesome, but there's already some arm concerns with him. Tyler Glass, now one of my favorite pitchers on earth, but, you know, for like, three months here.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Anthony DeBundo]

And then Blake Snell is hit or miss every year.

[Bill Simmons]

Another who knows, right?

[Anthony DeBundo]

So, but if you have all of these bets on all of these guys, your odds are you'll just have three of them for the playoffs and then you have three of the top pitchers in the sport in the playoffs. So I. And they're the sneaky thing and this is where they deserve a lot of credit, more credit than they get. They find these bargain bin prospects and turn them into great middle relievers and to set up guys and they pull guys out of obscurity and pitch to a 2, 5 era in the playoffs. And you're like, who's that guy? Oh, he throws 97.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh yeah. Oh, that guy throws 99. Oh, he's throwing one on one.

[Anthony DeBundo]

I mean, you never heard of them, right? And that's how, that's how they make it work. Where yes, they have the biggest payroll and yes, they have Ohtani and yes, they are the best team in the league, but they also have a good farm and they have a good player development too.

[Bill Simmons]

Plus 135 to win the NL on FanDuel. And it feels suspicious to me. I thought it was going to be a minus odds and it was like +135. What do they know? And then in the American League, the Red Sox had the third best odds, right now they're eight to one. So. So people have, I think, been banging them.

[Anthony DeBundo]

Second best odds to make the playoffs in the American League as well. One thing, you know, like plus 135. Even if the Dodgers could go 120 and 42, they could break the record for the best team ever. They're still going to have to play a five game series with a very good team, probably like a Phillies or a Mets or a Diamondbacks in the first round of the playoffs. So they could end up, you know, like last year they were down 2:1. And when Dave Roberts came up and said, we have a bullpen game in Game 4, every Dodgers fan, before they got cocky because they won the World Series, every Dodgers fan was like, that's it, season's over. Like, you know, I know Jomi tweeted the, the video of the guy playing the trumpet at the funeral. Like, this is over for the Dodgers. When they were down two one of the Padres and you know, the San Diego ended up losing that series and, and they played an incredible game five. But, you know, the margins are still so small in these baseball playoffs, especially with all these good teams in the National League.

[Bill Simmons]

You made me think of something. Before we get to Your last bet. So House always does. He calls it the Mahomes layaway plan. MVP bet. We're just bet it every year and it's. It's going to hit some years. And. And same thing with the Sal does it with the Chiefs. Like, just bet the Chiefs to win the super bowl every year. Just do it now. It's going to hit every other year two out of every three years. And just have these things. You can bet on the NFL and know you're probably going to be in the mix. Is there anything like that with baseball this year or anything this decade other than the Dodgers with. Is there anything else you'd even put any player, any home run total, anything?

[Anthony DeBundo]

Well, it's funny because Shohei Ohtani is plus 145 to win the MVP. I have never seen Mahomes. I've never seen a player this low to an mvp. And the thing was, like, last year, I remember coming into the season and people were texting me, like, why is Ohtani's MVP odds so low? I was like, well, he's not pitching this year. He would need to do something truly insane as a hitter. And he did win the mvp. So I wouldn't bet him because voters are going to say, well, if he hit and he pitched last year and we gave MVP and now he's not pitching, we can't give him MVP this year. And then he went and did something historic that, like, had never been done in the history of baseball with the 5050 and he won MVP going away. So I. I'm done trying to pretend to be like, well, actually with Ohtani. So if he plays 162, if he plays, you know, the full season, 140, whatever games, and he pitches at a competent level and he hits at the level we've seen him hit at, how does he not win? How do you beat him?

[Bill Simmons]

That's a good point.

[Anthony DeBundo]

I don't think voter fatigue is a thing yet because we're still so in awe of what Ohtani is doing. It's not like a LeBron situation where he's the best player, but they're all kind of doing the same things. Ohtani is doing something that nobody else does. So how do you put. How do you, like, get tired of that? I can't. I watch Dodgers games every time he pitches. I'm just amazed by it. So, so does +550.

[Bill Simmons]

That would be the only other one I could even think of. If he just became Mr. Met this year and became the most popular, you know, player in the city, basically. That's the only thing I could think of. What's your last bet?

[Anthony DeBundo]

My last bet is my favorite bet, my favorite dark horse. And it's the don't forget about us Arizona Diamondbacks to make the playoffs are minus 120. They're probably my favorite World Series quote unquote long shot this year. They're the ultimate post hype because two years ago they made this miracle run to the World Series out of nowhere. Nobody saw them coming. And then there were expectations last year. Yeah, you know, there's only so much you can do in terms of expectations because you have the Dodgers in your division and that makes it really hard to win the division because they're not better than the Dodgers over 162.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Anthony DeBundo]

But all you've heard off season is Dodgers this, Dodgers that, Dodgers this. Arizona scored the most runs in baseball last year. They added Corbin Burns. They improved their bullpen, which was the reason they didn't make the playoffs last year. People forget. There was that whole insane final day of the regular season saw plot type event with the Mets and the Braves where both teams had to split to get in the playoffs. But if one team won both games, that it would have been Arizona that got in the playoffs. The only reason that happened was because Arizona lost five of their last seven games in the final week. They completely choked. Their bullpen imploded and they fell apart. This is the best roster they've had and they have 2023 rookie of the year Corbin Carroll, who had a terrible sophomore slump first half of the season and then played at an MVP level in the second half, a non Ohtani MVP level in the second half of the season. So, you know, Carroll, breakout, you know, big time third season for him, could take a leap. Great pitching. They improved the bullpen. I think the Snakes. The Snakes are alive to make the playoffs and maybe pull an upset or two in the playoffs as well.

[Bill Simmons]

So we got. I'm looking at what do we have for a win total for them. Is it probably 86 and a half plus 148 for them to win 90 plus games?

[Anthony DeBundo]

Yeah, I like it.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Anthony DeBundo]

Yeah, the Snakes are my team this year.

[Bill Simmons]

Who's. Who's winning Champions League?

[Anthony DeBundo]

Barcelona was my pick. We did Paul Carr, Steve Ceruti and I, we did our brackets and we have a little draft going and I picked Barcelona. Lamina Mall is the coolest story in this, in the soccer world right now. And he's just dominating. And you know, there's parallels to a young Messi and Just unbelievable what he did in the round of 16 against Benfica. Like, he completely tore apart a very competent team by himself for the first two goals. And you're just like, what are you supposed to do? And he did it for Spain at age 16 this summer and, you know, led them to the Euros. He was the, the, quite frankly, the best player at the tournament. So what he's doing for them, we'll see if they play any defense, but what he's doing is unbelievable.

[Bill Simmons]

And plus 320 on Fanduel.

[Anthony DeBundo]

Yeah. Barcelona.

[Bill Simmons]

All right.

[Anthony DeBundo]

We've never, we've never had a bar real final and we could get one. Real Madrid and Barcelona are looking good at the moment.

[Bill Simmons]

Who's the Colts quarterback next year?

[Anthony DeBundo]

Anthony Richardson. Look, she'll came on here and said the most. I, like, had to take my AirPods out and think for a second I was so upset trading Anthony Richardson to Pittsburgh. I'm not giving up yet. I will be the last person on Richardson Island. They will, they will. Like, don't get too spray too close.

[Bill Simmons]

To him on Richardson Island. You might get hit by a ball that goes over some football that goes over somebody's head.

[Anthony DeBundo]

Be careful. That's fine. I'm the last one. I'm the last man standing. I'll be there and maybe we'll get some people to join us.

[Bill Simmons]

Can't they just have him work on just. Here's a 20 yard pass. Just. There's that guy over there. Can't you just throw it to where the guy is?

[Anthony DeBundo]

Well, he's working this off season with the guy who fixed Josh Allen's mechanics. Oh, great. So. So we've got, we've got some optimism. He's fully healthy. People forget he was a really good. He played like five games, then he was hurt and then he didn't get a regular off season because he was hurt. So this is the first full off season. I'm treating this like his year two. I like this. Not showing improvement.

[Bill Simmons]

Stock is low. I like this. He's got like Danny Dimes competition.

[Anthony DeBundo]

Yeah, Danny Dimes. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Great. All right. Good to see you, debundo.

[Anthony DeBundo]

Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

[Bill Simmons]

Thanks. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Tate and Kyle and Callie and DeBundo. Thanks to Kyle and Saruti and Gahao for producing. As always, don't forget you can watch clips and videos from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. And we're also doing it as video pods on Spotify. Every time you just see it, see it, watch it. Throw it in your pocket. You don't have to watch it then you can watch it again, whatever you want to do. I'm not sure if I'm back on Thursday yet. We're going to play it by ear. But I will be in Boston on Thursday night for a live, rewatchable show and then we'll be in Coolidge Corner all weekend for the Coolidge Corner Boston Movie Heist Movie Film Festival. I think there might be a couple tickets left available. You can check it out at the Ringer, so see you later in the week. Must be 21 plus in President select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + in President D.C. gambling problem, call 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com, call 1-887-897777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is there. Visit gambling helpline ma.org or call call 800-327-550 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York.