The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Bill Simmons Podcast – "The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards, Plus Duke’s Collapse With Ryen Russillo"

Introduction

In this episode of The Bill Simmons Podcast, hosted by Bill Simmons of The Ringer, listeners are treated to a multifaceted discussion that blends sports analysis with creative fun. The episode, released on April 6, 2025, primarily focuses on two major segments: a deep dive into Duke University's unexpected basketball collapse during a pivotal game, featuring guest Ryen Russillo, and the entertaining presentation of the "Made-Up NBA Awards" for the 2425 season. Throughout the conversation, Bill is joined by recurring contributors such as Cousin Sal and Joe House, among others.

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Section 1: Duke’s Collapsing Basketball Team – Analysis with Ryen Russillo

The episode opens with Bill Simmons and Ryen Russillo addressing the shocking collapse of Duke's basketball team in a critical game against Houston. Ryen recalls, “[03:43] I still can't believe they lost it the next day...” highlighting the disbelief shared by fans and analysts alike.

Key Points:

• Critical Moments of the Game:

  • Inconsistent Inbounding: Both Bill and Ryen discuss Duke's poor inbounding strategy, particularly James's discomfort, leading to multiple turnovers. Bill remarks at [05:02], “...they somehow did both,” referencing Duke's failure to execute basic inbounds plays.
  • Defensive Lapses: Ryen points out, “[05:45] How Does Duke go 10 and a half minutes with only one made field goal...” emphasizing the team's offensive drought and defensive shortcomings during the final stretch.

• Impact on Player Reputation:

  • Flag (Cooper): The duo debates whether Flag's performance will tarnish his future career. Ryen asserts at [09:21], “Honestly, you think it's going to hang on him? I think the people are going to ask him about this game for the rest of his life.”
  • Bill counters, “[09:53] ...it wasn't like... he's not sending that two minutes to the hall of Fame committee,” suggesting that while the performance was poor, it might not define Flag's legacy entirely.

• Coaching and Strategy Flaws:

  • Both hosts critique Duke's coaching decisions, particularly the handling of the final minutes and the inability to adjust strategies under pressure. Ryen notes, “[07:03] The guards killed them,” underscoring the lack of effective leadership on the court.

Notable Quotes:

• Ryen Russillo: “[03:43] I still can't believe they lost it the next day.”
• Bill Simmons: “[05:02] Yeah, but you're taught in, like, seventh grade not to do that.”
• Ryen Russillo: “[09:21] Honestly, you think it's going to hang on him?”

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Section 2: The 2025 Made-Up NBA Awards

Transitioning from the somber analysis of Duke’s performance, Bill and Ryen embark on a creative and humorous segment: the Made-Up NBA Awards. This annual tradition allows them to invent whimsical award categories, nominate players and personalities, and declare winners in a lighthearted manner.

Key Categories and Highlights:

1. Unicorn of the Year:

   • Description: Celebrates the most unique and standout player.
   • Nominees: Wembanyama, Ahmed Thompson, LeBron at age 40, Dyson Daniels, Zach Eady.
   • Winner: Wembanyama, reaffirming his dominance in the league.

2. Blake Griffin Award for Most Unexpected Delight:

   • Description: Honors players who exceeded expectations.
   • Nominees: Amen Thompson, Kate Cunningham, Rejuvenated Jimmy Butler on Golden State, Austin Reaves.
   • Winner: Austin Reaves, recognized for his unexpected offensive prowess alongside LeBron and Luka.

3. Bill Walton Award for Biggest Impact Under 20 Minutes a Game:

   • Description: Acknowledges players making significant contributions in limited playtime.
   • Nominees: Ty Jerome, Luke Cornett, Obi Toppin, Ben Simmons.
   • Winner: Ty Jerome, celebrated for his efficiency and impact during his short stints.

4. Nico Harrison Award for Worst GM Performance:

   • Description: Critiques the most questionable decisions by general managers.
   • Nominees: Nico Harrison, Sacramento firing Mike Brown, New Orleans trading Dyson Daniels, Miami’s handling of the Jimmy Butler deal, Denver being under the draft lottery apron.
   • Winner: Nico Harrison, holding the dubious honor for his management strategies.

5. Shamut Face Award for Most Immediately Regrettable Extension:

   • Description: Points out contracts or extensions that seem ill-advised in hindsight.
   • Nominees: Joel Embiid, Lori Markanen, Jamal Murray, Brandon Ingram, Patrick Williams, Scotty Barnes.
   • Winner: Joel Embiid, for his controversial contract extension decisions.

6. Lou Brown Award for Most Unabashed Tank Job:

   • Description: Recognizes teams deliberately underperforming to gain strategic advantages.
   • Nominees: Phoenix Suns, Utah Jazz, Detroit Pistons.
   • Winner: Detroit Pistons, awarded for their significant improvement from the previous season.

Notable Discussions:

• The excitement around Austin Reaves winning an unexpected delight award underscores his rising influence in the NBA.
• The choice of Nico Harrison for the worst GM performance highlights ongoing frustrations with team management strategies.
• Bill and Ryen engage in playful banter about potential new categories, such as “Horniest Guy on Twitter,” showcasing the show's blend of sports and pop culture.

Notable Quotes:

• Bill Simmons: “[35:49] Wilt Chamberlain was the OG Unicorn.”
• Ryen Russillo: “[37:09] If we can't give it to Wemby, I think Chad is a good backup choice…”
• Bill Simmons: “[55:23] Gilbert Arena's take is that if you were playing 36 minutes a game, I feel like any rookie playing 36 minutes a game is probably in the running for Rookie of the Year.”
• Ryen Russillo: “[77:16] Please don't let coaches challenge block charges anymore. Let's just say the call is the call and we just move on.”

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Conclusion

This episode of The Bill Simmons Podcast masterfully balances serious sports analysis with entertaining, tongue-in-cheek segments, offering listeners both insight and amusement. The in-depth discussion on Duke's basketball struggles provides a nuanced look at team dynamics and player performance under pressure, while the Made-Up NBA Awards inject humor and creativity, celebrating the quirky and unexpected facets of the NBA season. Bill Simmons and Ryen Russillo's chemistry ensures a rich and engaging listening experience, making complex sports narratives accessible and enjoyable for all audiences.

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Final Thoughts

For those who missed the episode, this summary encapsulates the core discussions and creative segments that define this installment of The Bill Simmons Podcast. Whether you're a sports aficionado or a casual fan, the blend of analytical depth and playful awards offers something for everyone.

Transcript

[Bill Simmons]

You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel Sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA. We have these fun little Tuesday Friday player performance stuff. We have same game parlays. We have picks for me sometimes and boosts and all kinds of fun things. Get ready in the playoffs. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today to get in on the action. And by the way, the Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit theringer.com RG to learn more. Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21/president select states gaming problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com Coming up, we're going to do the made up NBA awards for 2425 with Ryan Rossillo next. This episode is brought to you by Intuit TurboTax. Taxes was waiting and wondering and worrying. It's almost like how in the old days of fantasy football we used to have to tally the scores on a Monday and then the commissioner would just mail them out to everybody and you'd wait three days to see if you won. Those were the old ways of doing it. Now Taxes is matching with a TurboTax Live full service expert who gives your taxes their undivided attention. They can file your taxes as soon as today and while they do, you get real time updates on their progress. Meaning you can get back to what's important the game. Now this is taxes intuit turbotax get an expert now on turbotax.com we're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I put up another rewatchables on Friday night. We did the Saint Me and Kyle Brandt because Val Kilmer died last week and normally we put rewatchables up on Mondays but we decided screw it, we put it up three days early so you can find it as a video podcast on Spotify. You can find it on The Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well. I am taping this right now. It is late Sunday morning Pacific time. Tonight on the Prestige TV podcast. Me and Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson are going to be reacting to the White Lotus season finale. We're doing it live on the Ringer Dash TV YouTube channel right around 7:30 PT, 10:30 ET. Right after that episode ends we'll be going live and then you can listen and watch as a video podcast on Spotify or get it on the Ringer TV YouTube channel. So that's everything we got going. Don't forget about one Shining podcast as well. They Had a live reaction to the Final Four last night, which Priscilla and I are about to talk about a little bit. And then coming up right after the Monday night title game. You can get that as well. Coming up on this podcast. We did it last year. We did the made up NBA awards. With one week to go in this season, I had a great time. So we're bringing the gimmick back, me and Rossella. We're also going to talk about Duke and just a colossal collapse last night that we have to discuss. So that's all coming next. First, our friends from Pearl. All right, we're taping this at 10:30 Pacific Time. We're doing the made up NBA awards for the 2425 season in a second. Want to talk about the Final Four last night? Specifically an unbelievable, unfathomable Duke collapse. Rossillo, one of the all timers. Something that brought me back to where we were in college sports in like the 80s when shit like that seemed to happen way more often. Just watching. When did you start wondering, oh, my God, are they going to blow this? Because for me, it was when they got the steal. It was 77, 76 was the first time I was like, oh, my God, they might actually lose this.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I still can't believe they lost it the next day. And I'm sitting here, I know you and I both bet it, and I don't bet a ton of games, but when I saw the line come out and I had watched, you know, look, I'm certainly far from an expert on college basketball, but I just thought based on the size advantage that Duke had and three lottery picks, you're like, okay, four isn't that bad of a number. And the whole game I'm like, you should have bet more. You should have bet more. Like, you were so right about this, you know, and anybody that, you know, gambles enough, you just have games, you go, wow, I saw this the worst possible way. And immediately, you know, you're fucked. And on this one, I sat there the whole time being like, I'm so smart. I'm so smart. I would say there was two moments that hinted at what was going to happen. That barrage of threes at the end of the first half kept Houston in it. So they feel good. Despite being outplayed in the first 20 minutes, they went at halftime feeling good about themselves. Not that this team necessarily needed the confidence boost, but being the dogs, but they're a super aggressive team with, with a lot of confidence. And then really I, I think crier and those guys like the two guards just hitting threes. You're like, how is this game not 20? How is it not 25 points? And then I think once you saw that sign, James just could not. He was not comfortable inbounding the ball. And they kept going to this. The same flashing thing to the corner where they were running the inbounds catch to the corner.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, but you're taught in, like, seventh grade not to do that. Yeah, don't get trapped in the corner. Is the number one thing for the inbounds pass. The number two is just don't throw it up for grabs under your own basket. And they somehow did both.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, I guess I was shocked. And some people even said, like, after James hit his head, that's. But it was very clear he was freaking out, trying to imbalance it.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And Shire was just fine with it, I guess. And then, you know, it. Then it actually happens, and then you have the foul on Cooper. But look, this team was up. They gave up on 9, 0 run with 35 seconds. They didn't hit a field goal for, like, the last, what, 10? You know, so I. Yeah, they had.

[Bill Simmons]

A drought that felt like a half hour with all the challenges and all the reviews and all the other things. I mean, they. First of all, there was a play in this game. I'll be interested to see if you've seen it, because I can't remember ever seeing somebody try to strip the inbounds passer before and getting a technical. I feel like that might have made history for me. It probably happened at some point in my life, but I don't remember. But that happens. And I thought, oh, that's gotta be two Techs in the ball. It was only one Tech. So they go up six, but they have the ball. And then from that moment on, the game just completely fell apart for them. And they had. There was bad defensive stuff, like flag got beat for a layup. They gave up that three when they were up six when all they did was basically just, you know, a little. A lazy high screen. And both guys jumped on the one guy, and all of a sudden somebody else was wide open. They gave up the inbounds pass steal, wide open 3. Guy comes flying in from the weak side and dunks it. And then, you know, the guards on Duke were terrible. And I really think, like, if you're going big picture, the fact that you're trying to win a title, but you don't really have that one. I got a guy's guard. It really seems like that blows up in games. Like that you're playing a big football stadium. There's a crazy pressure, and then your sphincter start to get a little tight, and you kind of need that one guy who's like, I got it. I got it. I got this. And they didn't have anybody.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, the guards killed them. And it was. Yeah, it's one field goal that Cooper three with the last ten and a half minutes. So, like, that's really the headline. Like, we can talk about a call or inbounding. It's like, how Does Duke go 10 and a half minutes with only one made field goal throughout of it. I think there's also, like, different discussions. They don't double Cooper on the last play. If he hits that shot, does everybody go, hey, Houston, how do you play that straight up when you know that the ball's going to him? That didn't hurt him. There was also the debate of, after the technical free throw by Knipple, Houston played it straight up. And my thing is always at home. It's. It's kids. Although, you know, some of the guys a little bit older now, but I would foul. I would delay the game out as much as possible because I would expect the younger guys to just miss free throws. And Houston plays it straight up, which I think, you know, we could debate it. And granted, people just play the result and say, hey, it's smart now, but in that moment, maybe Sampson's going, hey, these guys have been tight for a half an hour, right? So let's not foul them. Let's let them run the clock out. They're going to run it down. They're not going to get a great look. And if we play them straight up, you know, at this point, like, maybe it's better than. Because they would have been down 6 if they. If they foul, who knows he makes it to. Then it's probably over. But to decide to play them straight up, which goes against everything I'm saying, but maybe even in the moment, it's like, why some of these coaching philosophies don't apply to every single game, because things are playing out differently. Houston, look. In the Tennessee game, most teams, I think, would have blown that lead to Tennessee because Tennessee was one of these teams. When you watch that first half against Kentucky, where you go, oh, my God, like, this is overwhelming, the energy, the effort, how hard these guys play. And Houston's the same thing. And Houston's like, fine, you guys want to do this with us, we'll do it. So I don't want to, like, look, My least favorite thing ever is when the topic in the pre show meeting is did Duke blow it or did Houston win it? And it's just stupid. It's TV shows do it all the time. Duke clearly blew this. But it's also ignoring the fact that this is who Houston is. This is a team that was down 6 with 10 seconds to go against Kansas and forces double overtime game. So they believe it all the time. And so I want to credit him for that. But I still cannot believe that a team like Duke that's this good, that this talented couldn't figure out the inbounding thing because James was rattled those last four or five.

[Bill Simmons]

Houston, relentless, made a couple big shots, made a couple big defensive plays like block and canipal. When they were down 6 on that layup was, you know, Duke had the opposite play on the other end and they fouled the guy. I was thinking about the big picture thing for me, obviously, Flag, nobody's going to remember this game in five years. Nobody's going to hold it against him. No, I mean for like, for the flag, NBA arc when he's like playing on Charlotte or whatever, age 24, he's in the playoffs. Nobody's going to be like, hey, remember that time in the semifinals?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Honestly, you think it's going to hang on him? I think the people are going to ask him about this game for the rest of his life. Like, I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

Really?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, this is awful, man. This is all time. Like, I know what you're saying, like, oh, I remember in the tournament, but whatever. I think this was so big on this stage for a Duke team that so many people dislike, but yet here he is and I'm watching him in this game going, I don't know where the flaws, where's the flaw? The more you watched him and I know more about.

[Bill Simmons]

Then he sucked in the last two minutes.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Did he suck?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, he gave up a couple of big defensive plays, gave up a big rebound. He had the foul that over the back, which was I thought one of the worst foul calls in a while. But what I was going to say.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Was I pushed back on that. He sucked in the last two minutes.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, he sucked in the last two minutes.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He did sucked, sucked in the last two minutes.

[Bill Simmons]

They gave up like an absolute slaughter of a run. And he was a big part of it. Defensively, he was in multiple plays where his guy either beat him to the basket or he gave up a wide open three. And that switch, that was his fault. We're 77, 71. 100% his fault on that. Gave up the weak side rebound. I'm just saying it wasn't like. I'm not sending. He's not sending that two minutes to the hall of Fame committee and be like, here's. Here's my case. It was bad. The team was bad.

[Ryan Rosillo]

If you were scouting him, you would be in the room going like this.

[Bill Simmons]

I would. Flag. I thought he was the best guy on that team by far. But what I was gonna say is that last shot, it's so funny how that fork in the road moment of, like, he gets the shot he wants. I thought it was gonna go in and he front rimmed it. But if it goes in now, it's like this completely different conversation, right? They survived this scare and he has like his Larry Bird, Carmelo moment and oh, my God. And he's finishes with 29 points. And he said it for a thing and instead you're looking back like, ah, that was really rough. I thought he got tight. I thought the whole team got super tight. Proctor looked like he didn't want to dribble anymore by the end of the game, but that's the thing. These guys are flags. 18. These guys are all kids. That's what always makes me nervous when I watch college sports. I feel so bad that these guys are so young at the stage they're at, you know, with just this kind of spotlight and tension and pressure. I don't think. I think you're wrong, though. I don't think it's going to hang on Flag in the same way. I thought he was really good for almost the entirety of the game.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Are we saying two different things, though? Because I don't. I mean, yeah, I don't know that you're going to be having Kevin Harlan on a Thursday night TNT broadcast four nights from now going, well, 30 from Cooper. But, you know, they.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, if we're doing the scale, the C Web timeout game was clearly like, we'll be remembering this right. When he called the. When he called the timeout that they didn't have at the end of that thing, that was like, oh, shit, this one's going to fall on my list. I think college basketball meant more when that happened.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It did.

[Bill Simmons]

But in this case, I don't know, I just thought. I thought his team really stunk. And I watched Duke a bunch of times this year, and that was. That stretch in the second half I thought was by far the worst I've seen them. It's kind of inexplicable. That they couldn't score for that long. I didn't really understand anything they were doing either.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No. I guess I'm still shocked that you thought he sucked the last two minutes. I'm going to have to go back and watch the tape again. You have to watch it. I think giving up a rebound or getting caught in rotation and somebody hitting a three, that's basketball. I don't know what that means.

[Bill Simmons]

What did he do good in the last two minutes? Because I watched it a couple times today and I was like, ah, you.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Watched it a couple times?

[Bill Simmons]

I did. There was a YouTube clip and I watched the last two minutes a couple times. Cause I was so fascinated by it. When you have these things that fall apart, it's almost like game 6:86 where you're like, you're watching each pitch, you're like, oh, that could end the game. Ah, that could ended the game. And that Duke thing was. Duke thing. There was 10 plays in 90 seconds where you're like, ah, if they get that one, they win. If you get. They get rebound, they win. You know, I don't know.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I guess, look, I think they ran down the clock too long on the knipple miss. I think that Proctor missed the free throw. I think Sion couldn't inbound the basketball and then he turned it over. I think the three that made it, the sharp three that made it 67, 64. That's a free for all. And you know, it's. It's kind of like, wait a minute, the sharp three. I think maybe I'm thinking about the other three. There's another three in here off the tip where it's a complete free for all. And I don't even know how like anybody, you know, it's kind of like one of those offensive rebound threes where you're just like, everybody's so scattered the whole time. I was surprised. Did Rick Bucher try to argue that flag was fouled on the, on the rebound? I. I couldn't. He was kind of saying, we don't know what his. I think he went with a mystery third arm defense. Classic rebuker.

[Bill Simmons]

But I haven't seen the Rick Buker.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You could see his hand and I didn't want to. Like, you know how it is when you're tweeting out stuff and you go, well, did you not factor in Sri Lanka's GDP in the turf? Then you're like, okay, I just, look, they screwed up so many different times. It's not about that call. But I can't believe an official in that moment is like, I think I'm kind of ready to call something on this box out. Like, I think I'm ready.

[Bill Simmons]

What's weird was the way Houston was pressing on those inbounds passes and how physical they were. You could have called a bunch of stuff that way either, and they weren't. And then Flags getting boxed out, going backwards. And I thought the guy took his right arm and kind of hooked Flag from behind a little bit from at least one of the angles. Either way, it's just not a foul. Now, Houston got the ball anyway, but the issue for me is, like, make them have to make a shot to win the game. Don't bail them out with some chintzy call that the guy was like. It seemed like he was just dying to call. He was calling it as. They were still like, as Flag was tipping the ball. I just didn't. I didn't get it at that time in the game. I thought it was pretty inexcusable. So from a flag standpoint, you don't think there's any way he goes back, Right? Cause that's another narrative. I don't see why he would, like, start the clock. Start the clock on your max extension. I don't know. Why would you wait another year to do it?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, that's what's always left out when it's like, well, look at the rookie scale stuff for the NBA guys and look at what you could make and who knows what. The nil stuff. But I always think the nil nil stuff, although lucrative, can be really misleading. Like contracts that just get announced. Like a lot of NFL stuff, it's like, Russell Wilson, 21 and a half million. You're like. Or 10, you know? So I think the nil stuff.

[Bill Simmons]

Stefan Diggs, 69 million for three.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, right. That's a really good one.

[Bill Simmons]

It's really 20 for one plus some.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It's exactly your point. The agent, the family, everybody else is like, start the clock for the rookie max extension in four years.

[Bill Simmons]

He can sign a max when he's 22 years old. I don't know why you would delay that for any reason. He's also ready to play in the league. It's not like one of those situations where, you know. And watching him a lot, it's been interesting. Like, ESPN ran a comps thing about him, and I'm not positive there's a specific comp. There's pieces of different guys. There's some stuff he does that reminds me of Tatum. Even though they're completely different players, but, like, body size, the fact that he can impact the game, the Tatum version now in all these different ways, but then there's pieces of other dudes. I just think, if I were him, I'm coming in. There's a weird scenario, though, where he could potentially wait to see who gets the pick, right? Can he pull out by, like, the lottery happens mid May, and he. I think he can pull out, like, the end of May, something like that.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So they changed the title. It used to be this thing where the NBA withdrawal date was so much later than the NCAA one. And it was done on purpose because the coaches would just vote on it and say, we want to know ahead of time. And then I think they changed it where either it's the same date or it aligns. I think the unknown part of it, like, if it were a franchise, you go, absolutely not. I want nothing to do with this. Maybe, but you have new ownership in Charlotte. You have a winger running things with the Wizards. So there's at least things that you feel like, hey, the guy's making these decisions. It's different than what it was before. So even though these teams aren't exactly so, if. If you hated one of those scenarios that much, would you actually delay it for nil money? That still would probably be close to what your rookie scale would be as a first. I. Again, I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

But he might not be the number one pick next year because there's a couple dudes in next year's draft that everybody loves, you know? You know you're the number one pick now. Yeah. So Seriti says the latter is May 15th. He'd have a month to look at it. We have not had a scenario where somebody tried to power play the top pick or one of the top picks in a while. Like, Danny Ferry famously did it when I was in college. Cause he didn't want to go to the Clippers. Ended up shoving his way to the Cavs. Steve Francis basically did it. He got drafted, was unhappy about it. Had one of the funniest NBA draft reactions probably ever, where he's just like. Just seemed like he was being tortured that he went to Vancouver, put the hat on, just kept looking up, and then finally pushed the trade to Houston. It really hasn't happens since then. And I actually wonder why it doesn't happen more often. Because, you know, we've been in this player empowerment era for 15 years now, but we haven't had a rookie come in and say, nah, I actually don't want to go to Charlotte. So you can either trade the pick to somebody I want to go to, or I'm just going to go back to Duke. And I think he has real leverage now at the nil to at least pretend he might want to do that. The problem for that theory is I don't think there's like a truly horrible team to go to this year in the NBA. Do you like even Charlotte? Is that a bad situation? They have a new front office, new owner. Everybody likes Charles Lee. They have some assets. That's not a disaster. Washington's not a disaster. I don't see a team where I'd be like, oh, man, I feel so bad for him. He went there.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, I mean, I was looking at it this morning where I was like, which team? If we were just being honest, be like, they don't deserve him. Like how you used to get mad when Cleveland. You just said Philly. Philly Philly is the answer. It's the only answer. They don't think. Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

You're stumbling into it.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I'm not even going to say.

[Bill Simmons]

So bad organizational stuff. Yeah. Don't say, sorry, they. They played the season wrong and would somehow get compensated with that would be nuts.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. Because you did a Cleveland rant, I think. Was it the third time they had won the lottery and you were on tv?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, on tv. Yeah. The Cleveland fans got mad at me. That was absurd.

[Ryan Rosillo]

But I got your point.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like, come on, three times in five years the same team's going to win the number one pick. What are we doing? What are we doing? Philly? I think if you're talking about what would be the most interesting basketball situation for him, the Philly one would be, at least on paper, the most interesting. I don't know if it would be the best for him because now he's on the embiid. Are you playing or you're not playing? Clock. He's on the Paul George, whatever the hell's going on there. But at least he'd have good guards. But I think Washington would be the most fun for him from a. Just as a basketball fan, just because of the weird pieces they have. And I think he would fit in with the guys they have and, you know, be some sort of connector.

[Ryan Rosillo]

The most positive thing that you can say about him is that he's actually not going to need the ball to impact games immediately. So whenever you think about a draft pick, that could be the face of your franchise. I mean. Cause if we're talking like best case scenarios and him Being this prospect that we all have been hearing about. And even though there was a chance, I think there was conversation beginning of the year of like, could the Rutgers guys surpass him? And then the year plays out and you're just like, okay, well there's obviously everybody's on the same page now. There's no question that he's the number one guy, but he, your Tatum thing at least now I think actually rings true because you're like, hey, Tatum's playing point guard for this team and Flag initiates so much of their offense. But he also. One of the things I loved about Paolo is that Paolo could have taken every shot and been justified when Duke was in those tight games. But Palo still wanted to set up other people. He had what I think is like shot make, star quality shot making stuff, but yet a deferential thing that actually works well with other talented players where I think young guys have to get to a point where like, hey, you just can't like cool scoring, bro. But you can't just do all of this on yourself and ignore everything else that's going around you. Cooper cannot take shots and impact the game. His passing is insane. His instincts are great. His footwork, all the athleticism, the body control and the shooting ended up being even better, I think than people thought this year. So he's really like a plug and play guy. I guess the only knock would be almost like the Wembanyama thing where you go, okay in five years is when Benyama like figuring out a way to score on his own in the Western Conference finals. And I think clearly, you know, that's like being really hard on Wembanyama. And I think with Cooper being. Because if you're going to be one of these, there's not 10 guys in the league that probably fit this standard. I don't know how many you think there are, but okay, we have a real dude. We're actually like in this not, hey, every year we have a chance to win a title, but we're at least like, we look like a conference finals team because that's the hope when you get one of these guys and is he somebody that can score in all those busted up possessions? And that would be maybe the only thing where you go ceiling wise. Like he projects to maybe do that, but that's what will make the difference.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, there's some tough advanced metrics with him with like the perimeter shots like that 15 to 20ft range. You saw it last night, he missed it. But the thing is he's 18 he's a year younger than he probably should be. I'm just like, if you're just looking, go back and look at Tatum tape when he was at Duke or first year Celtics, like he had a couple things he could do and other than that he was like, you know, a baby deer in the woods trying to figure everything out. And flag is what I see from an all around game is closer to the Tatum now than that Tatum in 2018. But I don't really know if he has a comp. I don't think he's the same kind of natural scorer, but there's so many other awesome things he does. I can't wait to see him in the league. And the bummer for him is just from a big picture standpoint, he had a chance to have this start to finish college season that just would have been mentioned with Davis in 2012, Carmelo and some of the great seasons. Now that's pulled away. I don't think this loss sticks to him though. It really felt like a team, a team collapse to me. Yeah, that shot, they'll replay it, but big picture like this, here's a first take segment for you. Is it better to lose or win a game like this if you're trying to become a great NBA player someday? Do you need like, do you need the agony, the thing to go back to during the summer, the pain of that one loss and be like, I never want to have that feeling again. In some ways you could argue that's actually probably better. Bird always said, like getting his ass kicked by Magic in the final game was actually a really good thing for him. It gave him a whole other level of drive. So I don't know. There's a dumb silver lining. Could it have been too easy if they won right away?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Are you seeing M.J. and Magic? Could they have been better had they lost their title games?

[Bill Simmons]

If MJ had missed that shot, maybe he wins eight titles, maybe he never plays baseball again.

[Ryan Rosillo]

We're saying two different things though. We're saying two different things on the Cooper, how this sticks to him. I'm looking at it as he's going to be at the gas station in Maine when he's 60 and some guy's going to come up to him and say, I can't believe you lost that game, as if he hasn't heard it his entire life. When I was watching him and like I think, I don't know if I was reading lifts correctly, but when Shire had him in the timeout and they were getting ready to Inbound. I think he said something like, it's your time, right? Like, go, ha. Like, go make it happen.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And how different now, granted, they still have to be Florida, which is, you know, a really good college basketball team, so maybe we're assuming a lot, but he's, he's going to be reminded of this probably every day in some fashion for the rest of his life, and it's going to be brutal. And you're right. I think the thing that we're separate on is that it's not going to stick to him as if it's a knock on who he is as a player. And he's, you know, he has this great NBA career. None of this is really going to matter. Plenty of guys have lost. They've lost, but this was just such a dramatic loss to blow it this way and to have so many.

[Bill Simmons]

When was the last time we had a college basketball loss like this? This was like old school.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Is this the Memphis, Kansas one when they don't make their free throws?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, that's a good one. That was 2008, right? That was like 17 years ago. Just doesn't happen the same way. Wait, one more thing. On the ncaa, you talked about the Florida guy last week and how much you liked them.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

And then you watch him last night and he just looks like he's doing a Jamal Murray impersonation. And I guess now he's crept into the, into the first round and I don't really know the knocks. I guess he's not as tall as Murray is, and he's older. He's 22, which they always seem to penalize guys with. But he's been impressive enough that I'm now rooting to see him go to a decent team in the draft, maybe a team where he could play. I'm talking about Clayton. But, but I, I, I've just been really, really, really blown away by his shot making and how he seems to have a sense for when, when his team needs him to do something. Right. If he's on Duke last night, that Duke doesn't lose the game. So where do you see him at? I know you only started doing the draft stuff, but where, just where do you see him in that whole context? Does this, does this even matter when these teams are looking at this in June?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Older, not jump off the screen batch of athleticism. So I think that's where I like, I look back at some of the mocks, and there was one in the beginning of this month where he wasn't even a second round Pick right. And that's where again, late to this, but the Tennessee SEC tournament game, I was like, holy shit. You know, and then he's basically been that the entire time we talked about the Texas Tech shot. But what he can do, I'm not comparing him to Steph, okay? But what makes Steph a great shooter is that Steph can have a bad foundation, that Steph can change the release of it, even though it all kind of comes back. You know, it's almost like a Dirk thing. If you looked at Dirk's foundation, you would never say, hey, do what that guy's doing. But everything was always adjusted for whatever the release was going to be. So there's some guys that are just catch and shoot. They can never move. They develop the muscle memory enough that if they catch and shoot in a certain spot, they put up like a really good number. But I don't know that it makes you a well rounded shooter. And what we see with Clayton is that he can be that. That corner three that he hit from the left side or excuse me, it was the right side, so right corner. He's adjusting all of his, like arm and release point to get away from the contest. And then it's natural. He also had a drive in the left side where he had read it and he knew what was going to happen and he knew he was going to get fouled. So he's preparing himself to even throw the ball at the rim. And it wasn't even an and one. But there's just stuff with him that even if he's not off the page, you know, or I should say off the charts athletically compared to some of the other guys, he seems to keep getting past everybody the entire time. And there's some players, when you're doing the draft, you're like, I don't know if he's like the most dynamic or the most quick. And it's like, okay. But he just keeps. He just keeps getting past everybody every single time. And his pace and his, his comfort in the biggest moments. I haven't done it, but I guess I'd have a hard time believing that there's 30 guys that go ahead of him. Even at the age I would add.

[Bill Simmons]

The way he finishes after he bounces into somebody in a drive and still finishes with touch. That's the thing that reminds me of Murray the most. When Murray's really going, he has this ability to kind of bounce off dudes and finish anyway. I think he's really impressive. And I was mad. I had a. I had the Auburn Duke parlay last night, which then I had to chase with Duke Clippers. So it was a double loss for me last night, but I, I just thought Auburn was better. And then as you're watching him take over the second half, they're like, why the fuck did I bet against this guy? This guy thinks he's the best guy in this tournament. I'm not, I'm not doing that again. All right, we got to get the only.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Just to add to it though, because I've been doing it now where like on FanDuel, I hedged it with a Florida, Houston, Florida over Houston +750 title. So I was like, I love Duke. I love them in this game. And then you're sitting there going, I still don't feel like I was wrong. There's plenty of games where you're like, I'm just wrong on this one. So yeah, I got a little title game insurance, so we'll see how it goes. But doubting Houston is a dangerous sport right now.

[Bill Simmons]

The most important question I'm going to ask you before we go to the break. Do you think stripping the inbounds passer should be worth more than one technical?

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, I'm fine with it. You think it should be?

[Bill Simmons]

I think it should be. It should be a two tech that it's just such a crazy thing to do. I just think it should be an extra. Add an extra tech to it for how Stu. How stupid it is. And then that guy came back and made some big plays. He wasn't phased at all. All right, we got to get to the made up NBA awards. We're going to take a break. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Michelob Ultra. A superior light beer in the ultimate trophy. Win or lose, you're bound to enjoy the ride with a good beer in hand. Michelob ultra crisp. Refreshing only 95 calories. A superior light beer. No matter the game, sport or season, superior is worth playing for. So sign up for ultra [e-mail] courtside and you can enjoy some of these games with nice beer in your hand. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2025 Anheuser Busch Michelob Ultra registered light beer St. Louis, Missouri must be 21 plus to order alcohol. Alcohol available only in select markets. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. During the season, every baseball team plays 162 games. It's a true test of endurance. It's not enough to have a hot month or two. You need sustained dominance throughout well, the same is true for your small business. It's not enough to have a great Q2 or even a great year. You want year over year growth that starts with better hires that'll be there for the long haul. To find Those hires, use LinkedIn. LinkedIn has strong hiring data and insights that you won't find anywhere else to help pair you with the best candidates, from unique skills and interests to the connections you have in common. Based on LinkedIn data, 72% of small businesses say that LinkedIn helps them find high quality talent. LinkedIn also lets you go beyond people who are actively applying in a given week. 171 million LinkedIn members aren't actively seeking jobs, but they are open to new opportunities. That's a big pool to miss out on. If you're not hiring with LinkedIn. Find your next great hire on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com Simmons. That's LinkedIn.com Simmons to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. All right, welcome to a special part of the show which is brought to you today by Audi with their all new fully electric Audi Q6E Tron. So we're going to do made up NBA awards in a second, but just quick check in because we got four games left. The biggest thing that's at stake right now is this defensive player of the year award which Draymond has. There's like a good media campaign for him right now. Rob Mahoney and I talked about a little bit on Thursday and both of us thought, didn't really see it, but Draymond's the favorite. Basically based off this last 25 years.

[Ryan Rosillo]

A large favorite shoe, right?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Basically based off this post Jimmy Butler trade stretch that seems to ignore the rest of the season. I'm not voting for him. I'm either voting for Moby or Dort. Cause I just thought those guys were better. And I want to look at. I'm not going to decide today, but did you have Draymond all of a sudden as the defensive player of the year or are you leaning somewhere else?

[Ryan Rosillo]

I'm not. I think it's the hardest award to vote on, to be honest with you.

[Bill Simmons]

With no Wendy.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Well, yeah, I mean, he was just going to win it. But there's like a lot of stuff that Draymond does do that is really important that may not show up. You know, his switchability, that. That stuff's crazy.

[Bill Simmons]

But there's some clutch defense with him too. Like he'll make like the single biggest play in the fourth quarter, defensively, little stuff like that.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Defensive player of the year, clearly watching all year. I have thoughts, but I definitely make the rounds with coaches, assistant coaches and they. The love for Dort and who he is and what he's tasked with and then the numbers. When you start looking at some of the matchup stuff, which, you know, at times I think can be packaged to be a little misleading, but it's a DortMobley thing for me right now, but I'm going to make the calls and figure it out. But I just think it's such a hard thing to vote for.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, the all new fully electric Audi Q6E Tron. A huge leap forward featuring effortless power, serious acceleration, the most advanced tech of any Audi ever. Experience technology that puts you center stage of the panoramic digital stage. Plus an optional screen for front seat passengers. Perfect for watching the latest sports documents. The Q6E Tron. Not just the new EV. It's a new way to experience driving. Learn [e-mail] always pay careful attention to the road. Do not drive while distracted. All right, made up awards time. So we did this last year. I had a fantastic time. We're doing it again. Have a bunch of awards. I couldn't remember last year if I sent you all the nominees. I don't think I did. I think I just sent you the awards and left you on your own to come up with like a winner. But I have nominees for each category, so we're gonna rip through them. And the first one is Unicorn of the Year, which Wembanyama won last year. We created it for him. He got hurt, I don't think. Would you say he's eligible? I mean, he could basically win every year. I'd like to come up with a new name for this. Right? Can't we. Can't we. Can we zag a little?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. I mean, Unicorn is like. Who was the OG Unicorn?

[Bill Simmons]

Wilt Chamberlain.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. Hey, I saw something the other day. They were trying to say you could bench £500. Did you find that in any of your research? That would be really hard.

[Bill Simmons]

I haven't seen that one yet. £500 is a lot.

[Ryan Rosillo]

A lot. Especially with long arms.

[Bill Simmons]

Really strong guy Nominees. I have Wemby again, Ahmed Thompson, LeBron at age 40, Dyson Daniels or Zach Eady for Unicorn of the Year. We could just vote for Wemby again.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, chat. Didn't play enough. Not eligible. What do you need? 35 games.

[Bill Simmons]

Put Chad in there. Make the case.

[Ryan Rosillo]

If they have a playoff run and he plays as well as I think he's going to play. There's going to be some real chat conversations. I don't know if they get as absurd as Deandre Ayton potentially being a top 15 player in the Sun's finals run of a few years ago. That seems inaccurate with further information. But the rim protection numbers, the fact that he can play five out, the fact that he goes coast to coast the other night against Detroit and three point shooting. Yeah. So I, I just. Hey, just telling the world. Prepare yourself for some big time Chet projections. If OKC pulls this off, I like the chat one.

[Bill Simmons]

If we can't give it to Wemby, I think Chad is a good backup choice because I've never really seen another player like him. So I think you're right. I wanted to give this to Amen Thompson, but I feel like he's been in the vicinity of other guys we watch. But I still feel like to have enough athletic ability that people go to see you play basketball and you seem like a better athlete than anyone at a basketball game with all the best athletes feels unicorny. It's in. So at least he's a medalist, so we'll give it to him. Okay.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Just an aside. A man's like four of these for me and then I had to figure out how to whittle it down. So I don't think a bad choice. I would say like a Michael Phelps.

[Bill Simmons]

In the Summer Olympics one year just grabbing medals.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, yeah. Although I do think if you had basketball where it was like, hey, we'll play one on one, two on two, three on three, five on five, and then we'll play horse and then it's like Jordan had seven golds. So some of the swimming and gymnastics gold medal count I think is unfair to the team guys. But we can get into that later. Although this curling thing with China is nuts. I have if you had an award for most rewinds on the season it's on.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah. Oh, that'd be a good category for next year. I always thought the team, like the basketball. Basketball team medal just should have been bigger. I think when you're just talking about some of those individual swimming race ones, maybe a smaller one. And then the basketball, I always thought should look like a Flavor Flav type of metal. Next category, the 2011 Blake Griffin Award for most unexpected delight. Once again, Amet Thompson. Here he is along with Kate Cunningham. Rejuvenated Jimmy Butler on Golden State. Austin Reeves or anyone else you want to mention any other nominees? Nope.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Because you already said the guy that I was going to to use in this one. So who is it?

[Bill Simmons]

Who's your winner?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Amen.

[Bill Simmons]

All right.

[Ryan Rosillo]

This is going to be like a Meryl Streep situation here.

[Bill Simmons]

No, because I'm giving mine to Austin Reeves.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That's a good one.

[Bill Simmons]

I, I can't believe how good he is offensively to the point where he's on a team with LeBron and Luka. And not only does his coach think it's a good idea to run stuff through Austin reaves, but LeBron and Luke are like, we should run stuff through Austin Reaves. Like that's the level he's at. I think he's a potential 25 point a game scorer at some point in his career. There's pieces of different guys from over the years and I'm going to do the comparing a white guy to a white guy thing, but there's a lot of Jeff Hornacek, there's some Paul Westfall, but his ability to get to the basket, create shots for other guys, take huge threes and big moments. I think other teams are really afraid of him. Offensively I've been really impressed. Was not expecting it. And so it's either him or Thompson to me.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Can we save amen for some of the other ones? Because I think the Reaves part of it is. You're not saying it's unexpected because we already knew he was pretty good, but now this is like the Jaylen Brown arc where you have to keep adjusting the ceiling every time.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, I just didn't. I never thought like, I always liked him. I never thought like this guy might be a four time all star. Like I was never in my head, it was always like, oh, this guy's a really nice piece for LeBron. Like he really turned out to be a good player. Somebody should pay him now. It's like, Jesus Christ. This guy, this is like a real, a real offensive star.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You know what's crazy? Do you remember the spurs thing, not offering him a contract?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, shut up. I didn't tell you this category because we already have the winner, but it's a new category for next year. The Luka Doncic trade award for most cataclysmic NBA moment of the season goes to Luca Trade. So we just have to write that one down for next year.

[Ryan Rosillo]

There's no way. There's no way we're. I mean, you can sit there and say plenty of unexpected things happen. How about Cuban now doing the tour?

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, he's coming up later.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Oh, all right. I don't even have a category. All right.

[Bill Simmons]

The 1986 Bill Walton Award for biggest impact under 20 minutes a game. Guy nominees Ty Jerome over solo podcast guest 19.7 minutes a game this year, 12.2 points a game. Luke Cornett on the Celtics putting up basically like a 6, 6 in 15 minutes. Obi Toppin 10 and 4. 37% from 3 leads the league in field goal percentage around the rim. And then just for fuck's sake, Ben Simmons on the Clippers. Let's throw him into for when he comes in and does whatever Ben Simmons does for 15 minutes. Who do you have for the Bill Walton Award?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Todd Jerome. The metrics for a player like him are incredible. It's also real when you watch it. So I mean his win shares per 48's over 2, like 0.2. So it's, it's a really good number. Which sometimes that number doesn't even show up to reflect how well you know. But when you start kind of getting into that area for a player, especially what he's asked to do, I, I think it's Jerome and I think he's had some really big moments for them. I just really felt like there was a few weeks there where it was just like, so this guy's just never going to miss any shots and do everything right.

[Bill Simmons]

It's one of the best under 20 minute seasons in a while. He's basically coming in for two 9 minute stretches each half and that's it. You don't see him again and he comes in and he's impactful the whole time. I'm with you. What does he make this summer? You think? Is he a $15 to $16 million guy? God, not a shitload of cap space floating around.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No. But not a great free agent field either.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, veteran guy, he's going to be in some big games in the playoffs. I think you could see like a 50 for three. One of those type of deals from somebody.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, because you're still asking like you're going, is he going to be our starting point guard? Like, is he playing 36 minutes a night out there?

[Bill Simmons]

Well, could he get like one of those stress contracts like when Stre went to Cleveland, what was it? 4 64. And they were like, we just need an awesome role player who can make some shots and play swing and maybe he starts, maybe he comes off the bench, but we need him very excited for the next category. The Monte Williams award for worst coach of the year. This used to be named the Vinnie Del Negro Award until whatever Monte did last year, which was the most egregious bad coaching I think we've ever had this century, at least. Nominees. Coach Buddy on the Phoenix Suns, Nick Nurse on the Sixers. I'm throwing Doug Christie in here as a nominee based on the last 15 Kings games and just whatever the hell is going on with that team. They're 4 and 11 in their last 15. Not trying to tank anybody else you would put in as a nominee here.

[Ryan Rosillo]

How is Nurse on here?

[Bill Simmons]

I just put him on from the first two months of the season. I needed nominees.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I'm gonna zag on you.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, Toronto.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Rajkovic.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Now, not because he did a bad job, but because he did an amazing job. This is the worst tanking in a bad way. Like if the goal were to tank, they were 8 and 31. They were unbelievably defensively there for like two plus months. They've won too many games. So he was. I'm not saying he's a bad coach, but he did the worst job of executing because the team played so hard. And I think the Raptors were number two against the spread and depending on what number you got this summer, they're going to end up being an over team, which I.

[Bill Simmons]

Unless they throw away than the last four games. I think they play too hard.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So I'm. I'm not even comparing him to Money Williams, but I'm zagging a bit on the nomination of like, hey, what, why, why are you getting these? Like there's certain nights with their lineups where I'd go, what the hell is. And then they'd win again.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm going to pick Coach Bud because Phoenix seems the most uninspired night tonight with the most guys that really don't seem like they gave a shit about what happens in the game. I thought Bradley Beal's performance in the Celtics game the other night was one of the most reprehensible things I've seen in a while and I really hope if anyone missed it, go, go watch some of his minutes in that game and if you want to see somebody, just completely mail it in. It was awful. Did you see? Was awful?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, he's. I mean there shouldn't even be any other nominees for another award a little bit later. I imagine we're aligned on that.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, I had the 2015 Brad Stevens Award for most untankable coach and I had your Toronto guy, Jordy Fernandez, Will Hardy and Chauncey Billups action packed category. So you'd go the Toronto guy for that one too.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, Yeah, I didn't know that was a category so I wouldn't have done that to you.

[Bill Simmons]

No, no, I, I, I think he can win both.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Has anyone ever done that before?

[Bill Simmons]

A double. A double. I have Jordy. They're just like trying to trade dudes, get guys off the team to make them worse and that team over and over again. Every, it's same thing as Toronto. Everyone plays hard. He's a really good in game coach and he's just stolen games left and right. So kudos to him. Speaking of Chauncey Billups, the late 1990s Chauncey Billups Award for best reason never to sell your stock. Our guy Scoot Henderson. That's it. There's no other nominees. Scoot Henderson.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I was talking to a team this morning about this and their quote, so it's not coming from me, but was that this? We need to have more patience with guards. The way you have to think the game now with the number of defenses that you're seeing, it's almost like quarterbacking now. Like hey, are they in zone? Is the safety coming down? Is all this different stuff? Like there's just so much variation for what you're having to face. And I think Cade Cunningham's a great example of this. Like you saw the physical talent. You imagine he was going to be able to shoot it well. And then at that size with the passing that we saw from Oklahoma State, it's like how this just isn't going to work out. Now granted he had some really alarming numbers finishing at the rim or his inability to finish at the rim. But you saw clearly and it helped them having spacing too. But once he started kind of figuring things out a little bit, it just, there might be a lesson in there for some of these lottery pick guards that look lost early on. So maybe there's a Scoot lesson in there as well.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm going to go backwards to two guys I specifically mentioned remember for this because this might have always been a lesson and we just forgot Kevin Johnson. Kevin Johnson on Cleveland. I remember going to a Cav Celtics game and watching him just look like a deer in the headlights. I went with my dad and we were like, wow, that guy seemed like a bust. And then they traded him for Larry Nance and he was awesome. And then Billups on Boston. I was going to those games now Patina was yelling at everybody. He lost his confidence. They traded him after 50 games and then he bounced around. He went to Denver, he went to Toronto. Like he bounced around before. He finally Landed on Minnesota when he rejuvenated his career. But I would just never give up on a high pick after a year or two if I was a team that drafted them. Quarterback's a little different. We've had some quarterbacks where it's like, I mean, when do we know Josh Rosen? Like the second play of his career where he's just like, ah, that guy's. It's a route.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I was not. I wasn't that quick on Josh Rosen.

[Bill Simmons]

So you weren't. You stayed in. How long did you stay?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Longer, Because I think it was a game against. I forget if it was SC or maybe it was Arizona, where I thought he was reading the blitz perfectly and hitting the tight end. So, yeah, I fell for it. Terrell Brandon may be part of this group.

[Bill Simmons]

That's a good one.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Even somebody like Brian Shaw, who was really up and down and then turned into an awesome role player for a couple different playoff teams. Yeah, I like your quarterback, point guard thing. The Freeman Williams Award for biggest black hole. This isn't as fun as last year when Cam Thomas was just the obvious winner. I went with Lamelo, which you made the case for on your pod a couple months ago. But Even though he's 21.3 field goal attempts a game in 32 minutes, so he's basically taking two shots every three minutes. He's got a 36 usage rate and the team doesn't win. So I don't feel great about it, but I thought he was the best option. Who'd you have? Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Cause there's some alarming shot numbers that we've gone over where it was the most shots, I think, per 100 possessions since Kobe in 2006. And it's like, okay. But I mean, there was even discussions then of like, okay, Kobe's amazing, but is this awesome? You know, and again, like, how dare you even bring it up. And then you mention the team around him and all that kind of stuff. Even if I feel like everybody begins to be like, hey, Priscilla is just going to jump on this Lamelo thing because of that stuff that you're already talking about. He's such a good passer that I don't think the black hole thing applies to him. Like, I have to be. I have to watch you and think you never want to pass. You just don't want to. And I think Lamelo actually wants to pass a ton. I mean, there's a sneaky part of this circling back to the start of the pod where we're talking about Cooper and Where he could go, like, can you imagine him on lobs from Lamelo? Like, what if. You know, is there a version of this Lamelo thing where it works where he scales down the shot, attempts a little, he has some better play? Like, you know, again, I'm. I'm probably. I sound like I'm in the marketing room with the front office of the Hornets going as they try to shop. Right, right. Yeah, we have. So we're selling a lot.

[Bill Simmons]

We didn't want to give them up.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right, Right. Couple. Couple options for you here.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Delano Banton from Portland. I was like, that guy doesn't like passing.

[Bill Simmons]

That's a really good one.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He really doesn't. But then his assist percentage number on the advanced stuff was so much higher than I thought it would be. I was like, all right, that's. That's not. The numbers don't back up the eyes on that. But I'm just telling you, that guy's not. He's thinking shoot first.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

If you've watched. If you've watched enough Portland, which, you know, some of us like watching Portland play. Uh, so then I looked at top 15 in field goal attempts. Not per game, just raw field goal attempt total.

[Bill Simmons]

I did the same.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Jalen Green's fourth. He's taken the fourth most shots this season in the league. Yeah, Jalen was awesome the other night against okc.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, he's been good last month. I've been impressed.

[Ryan Rosillo]

They need him. But if you go by the 1394 shots, that's again, 1,394 shots this year. So I looked at. It was like, all right, who. Let's say top 15 shot attempt guys total on the season. He's the only one. He's the only one under 300 assists. DeRozan is the only one close to him at 3:16. And Jalen's at like 260 something. Now you could also say, hey, scale it out to 16 field goal attempts. And then Jaren Jackson Jr. Who I love, like, it's. But then I go, okay, but nobody's giving it to Jaren Jackson Jr. Saying, All right, now set up the offense.

[Bill Simmons]

Maybe we don't have a black hole. Maybe the word's defunct. I looked at the recesset numbers. There was high volume. I was surprised.

[Ryan Rosillo]

But what are you asked to do? But when you start getting into like 7% assist ratio like Jordan Clarkson had some years, you're like, man, not a lot of playmaking there. So some of it feels a little bit like, okay. But once the ball is passed to me. What do you more meaning you and I? Like, what do you morons expect me to do? Like, you realize how I fit into our offense. Like, I'm not not getting the ball to set it back up. So I think it has to be on somebody who's. You're still expecting to maybe make a few plays here and there.

[Bill Simmons]

Cam Thomas's stats are basically almost exactly the same as last year, so he's probably the winner, even though I feel I felt way better watching him this year than I did last year. But yeah, we don't really have the. That's why even like lamelo I was like, I don't know, maybe we leave this defunct to share. Let's. We got some media awards coming up, so let's take a break before we get to this. This episode is brought to you by VRBO Private Vacation Rentals. With vrbo, you always get the whole house so you and your fellow fans can cheer on your team in peace. What's worse than watching a game with somebody who's not rooting for the same team? You're rooting for nothing. But that's why if you book a vacation house with vrbo, you know, all the people in your house, they'll be friends, they'll be family. Ideally, they'll be the ones who also root for my teams. Plan a winning vacation. Make it a vrbo. This episode is brought to you by the Home Depot. It's starting to look like spring. And spring starts with savings. At the Home Depot, there are savings for every project, whether you're starting with a clean slate with convenient cordless power like a new pressure washer or leaf blower, or starting to love the art again with colorful flowers and fresh mulch. Start your spring with early savings at the Home Depot. Shop [e-mail] all right, this is one of the big categories. This is like in the Oscars, when all of a sudden they're doing like, you know, best supporting actor. Like, whoa, we're doing this now. It's the perk thinks Jokic pads his stats award for worst sports media take of the year about basketball. I'm sure you have a couple nominees written down, too. I wrote down 4 perk saying Steph shouldn't be an all star. All of Colin Coward's Tatum takes like all of them for five straight months, which I went on his show two weeks ago and made fun of him for. Marcus Morris has been debuting some Jokic stuff lately that I really want to talk about. And then Gilbert Arena Saying Bronnie would be top five for rookie of the year if he played 36 minutes a game was an actual.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Gilbert Arena's take is that if you were playing 36 minutes a game, I.

[Bill Simmons]

Feel like any rookie playing 36 minutes a game is probably in the running for Rookie of the Year.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Any other.

[Bill Simmons]

Any other ones that jumped out for you?

[Ryan Rosillo]

I think about the Perk Jokic Westbrook video once a week.

[Bill Simmons]

The stat pad.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, it's been years. It's been years, and I can't stop thinking about it.

[Bill Simmons]

Every time he talks about Jokic, I can't unwind it.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Because I know what he was doing. And there was a video of. It was kind of like the thinking emoji face. And I kept thinking of all the times that. I'll admit the disconnect of me never playing in any game that ever mattered in this sport that I'm in love with and is basically my career. And then somebody who did play is capable of suggesting that because one guy gets triple doubles, it's the same as the other guy getting triple doubles. I just. It makes my head explode. Okay. I can't. I still don't have an answer as to how it even happened. So Perk's been on a bit of a heater. He had SGA in the defensive Player of the Year conversation the other night when they were talking mvp, and it was like, yeah, it was like, why is SGA not being mentioned for Defensive Player of the Year? And I thought, like, well, because it's March and we know that he isn't. And he's actually. If Wallace isn't on the floor, like, the one guy. Not to say that he's a bad defensive player, but he's not even like, one of the three or four best defensive players on his own team. Although he's gotten defensive. All defensive team votes. I think it was a couple of years ago.

[Bill Simmons]

He's a good defensive player, but, yeah, he's done the same thing with Dort and Caruso Wallace.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right. So that made me like, I had a relapse on the Jokic Westbrook thing when I was watching that. And so then I saw the Mark Marcus Morris stuff with Jokic, and I was like, you know, first take's probably sitting there going, this is great. Is there anybody that we can find that's kind of in the mix? Played, not playing? Maybe we can figure out if he fits in to what we're doing. But, like, back different background than Jokic? Like, is there anybody available who could come on and Just shit on Jokic a little bit.

[Bill Simmons]

Was there anybody that Jokic shoved from behind really hard and knocked him out for 20 games? Right.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It's his brother, but is there anybody, Is there anybody that would like, fit into what we're doing here? And it's like, I've got the guy. I've got the guy. And then he went. They must have been high fiving him, being like, you fit in perfectly to what?

[Bill Simmons]

So you think that was in the meeting. He test drove it and they're like, that's great. You should say that.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Could you say not top 50?

[Bill Simmons]

That was really good because when I.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Saw the clip, it was like, no way. Marcus Morris kind of shit on Jokic a little.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, next category is the most shameless LeBron related media moment of the year. And unfortunately, there were too many this year with people in the media and we're just going to skip this award, including a couple last week that I was just stupefied by. Let's move on. The Virginia Beach Kings award for most contrived story on a slow news day. I'll give you the nominees. This is, I think, another. Another action packed, great category. Stephen A versus LeBron for 10 days. The story that Minnesota at the deadline came really close to getting Kevin Durant, even though they're on the 13th apron and it's like physically impossible for them to make any sort of trade that would have allowed it. I enjoyed that. Anything, any story that involves an ex player on a podcast taking a shot at a current player throwing that in there. Any story that made it seem like Joel Embiid was now ramping up to play throw in there. And then my favorite, Paul George has paused his podcast to concentrate on the 76ers season. I thought I had no notes. I thought that was a tour de force.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It's the blame.

[Bill Simmons]

It's the. Oh, some blame you for that. What else do you have for most contrived story on a slow news day?

[Ryan Rosillo]

I'm going to blame myself for this one, but I wrote out a Tsumani Kamara open that I didn't do on my pod.

[Bill Simmons]

That you didn't do. You were going to do it. You knew. Kamara open.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Wow, that was like, tough headline.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. I probably would have led with the guest on the tweet of that episode.

[Bill Simmons]

Kamara. Underrated. I favorite contrived story is the Durant trade, though. That was my favorite. I can't believe Minnesota was floating that out. Like there was ever a chance in a million years they had a Chance to get Kevin Durant when all the rules make it literally impossible.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You know what? Off of that, though, I think we could bring it back to the Luca. Thing that we haven't even brought up yet. Is that when it happened, all we were doing with whatever contacts you had is like, did you know he was available? And it was like, no, no. Did you hear this? No, no, he wasn't. He wasn't. Or whatever. And then it, like, took a couple.

[Bill Simmons]

Never heard anything. No calls.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It took a couple weeks for us to be fed the idea that he was offered for Ant and that he was offered for Giannis. And then it became. Again, it depends on who you believe, because I don't know that any of this stuff was officially reported, but the sense you got from it, I think you and I would agree. So I'm assuming a bit here where it was like, yeah, a team called us about a trade, but they didn't say. They didn't say he was available.

[Bill Simmons]

They said, what would it take to get Giannis? And we were like, what are you talking about? Yeah. Oh, another big award. The McKeskey Award for Best American White Guy. Previous winners included Chet Holmgren, Tyler Herro, Kevin Love, and Mike Miller. So it's a prestigious one.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Mike Miller actually was close to having the white belt here.

[Bill Simmons]

He had it. He won it somewhere in the mid 2000s. He grabbed it. I'm not saying it's wrong, but sometimes it's a weak field. This year, it's a strong field. Chet Holmgren, Tyler Hera, Austin Reaves. We'll throw Pritchard in there just to have four candidates, but this is probably the best category we've had. Now, Holmgren's missed a punch of time, so I'm going to penalize him and make it between Hero and Reeves. And I gotta say, I think it's Reeves. It's homegrown if we don't care that he missed the games because he's the best out of those guys. But I think if you're going by this season, it's Reeves.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right. But just to review. Jokic, Caitlin Clark, American. Wake us Trump, Cooper, Flag, White Lotus. Been a big year.

[Bill Simmons]

Flag was a hit last night. So you agree that it's. It's Reeves, or would you go homegrown on 30 games?

[Ryan Rosillo]

God, this was a really tough cat. I think there was a time where we were wondering if McDermott was the answer.

[Bill Simmons]

We had bad years for this. Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. That's why I just gave that timeline. What's been going on. Let's See, I'll go Chet ceiling. But if you want to ding him for not playing. What? He's at 29 games, and Reeves has had to really carry you.

[Bill Simmons]

Right. Chet's the best out of those guys. We don't have the all NBA rules where it's 55 games or more. We're just going best white guy. He's the best white guy. Dennis Rodman award for best ongoing distraction nominees. Embiid. What's going on with his knee? Is he gonna play today? Uh. Oh, Setback. Oh, he's ramping up. Setback. Oh, he's ramping up. Zion. Is he playing? Oh, he's hurt. Whoa. He had 38 points and 17 rebounds last night. Where is he? He's not there anymore. John Morant. Jimmy Butler in Miami. Not the Jimmy Butler. And go on stage. Jimmy Butler in Miami. And then last one. Here's where I'm gonna put our guy Mark Cuban for his. It's not my fault media tour. After probably two weeks of getting hammered by everyone in Dallas, why did you trade Luka Doncic? And him explaining that they didn't, he finally felt the need to give multiple interviews, rubbing salt into the open wound of the Luca trade. So who do you have for this best ongoing distraction? Biggest.

[Ryan Rosillo]

There's such a recency bias with awards. I think Jimmy Butler needs to be recognized here.

[Bill Simmons]

I think you're right.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It started the playoffs last year.

[Bill Simmons]

Yep, I think you're right. Plus, watching how great of a teammate and contributor and the way the Golden State guys are talking about him, how amazing he is, and he can score nine points, have five rebounds and still impact the game in these 19 ways. And Steph loves him. Draymond loves him. Kerr loves him. I think it's the right answer.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He was slow, though, in that Lakers game, and it was something that maybe I wouldn't notice as much if I wasn't there, but he basically took off. Like, I think the first 14 minutes, it was strange.

[Bill Simmons]

I think he's played a lot of minutes the last 25 games in a way that hasn't really happened in a while. And I've noticed a little bit of the same thing, that it seems like he's a little bit dead legsy. But, you know, they're in the grind now. They're trying to get. Trying to get a top three, top four seed. I don't think they have any choice. I was surprised he played on Friday night, but I think these guys, you know, at this point, it's such a dramatic difference to be Three or four versus falling down. Eight is the scary one. Nobody wants to be eight. People will play these guys. And back to backs, whatever. Nobody wants to be eight. So that's it. Oh, the Jim Coughlin Award for you think you're better than me? Last year, this was won by the LeBron JJ pod. I guess we could give it to the Nash LeBron pod this year to mind the game. I don't know if you had any other candidates.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I've learned to love Shaq. I didn't really appreciate him when I was younger. I guess I did from a basketball sense, but I was never necessarily rooting for him. And I think at that point, once he was at the Lakers, I was certainly more into my commonwealth phase. So it wasn't likely that I was going to root for him. So I've learned to love him. He feels incredibly sincere. Somebody that's a public figure. His honesty, the way he's talked about stuff. But I mean, just. I'd say, you think you're better than me would be Shaq against anyone that's currently playing. He just can't help himself. And we'll have these games that are just incredible performances. And then somehow the conversation just pivots back to that. They couldn't guard him. And if I were a producer, I'd go, dude, you have figured it out. You're great on this show. It was a really tough show to come into. You know, in the beginning, I thought with Shaq, that it was.

[Bill Simmons]

First year is bad.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. Is this going to work? Is he looking at those other two guys being like, I was a better player than you, so I should be a bigger star than you? But it's like, hey, Charles is just the star of the show. And then everybody kind of plays off of that. And for whatever reason, like, it almost feels so important that they developed him. Like, they've. He's done a great job developing himself on television. Developing himself on television. Everybody behind the scenes, like, it's. It's really important that he's there. And I would say to him, if I were on the show, it'd be like, just be a. Like, be cautious of playing the same note over and over again. Especially when you have a night in the NBA that's like, should be celebrated.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a good note. Oh, this is a great one. The Andre Blatch Award for Most Immediately Regrettable Extension. And somehow we had six nominees, including Joel Embiid. I'm throwing Lori Markanen in. Jamal Murray. Throwing him in. Brandon Ingram happened during the season. Patrick Williams and Scotty Barnes. The answer is obviously Joel Embiid. But it's just fun that we had six nominees and Mark and, and I, I shoehorned a couple in there that probably weren't that regrettable, but it is. Joel Embiid is our answer.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I'm saving Ingram for something else. That's totally fine. Markkanen Surprised you would nominate, although it's a bit alarming. But I think that team had just so many on ball guys that were young and they were like, we want to lose anyway, so we're not going to worry about it. The Patrick Williams won. Sneaky deserves like a lot of credit here.

[Bill Simmons]

5 for 90.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. And he's just, he had a dunk that the other night and I was like, this is awesome. They're also down 30, I think the Oklahoma City within minutes of the game. But the Embiid and the Embiid timeline of it is really why there shouldn't be anybody else receiving votes for this one.

[Bill Simmons]

Would you consider changing the name next year from Andre Blatch to Joel Embiid Award if Embiid doesn't come back next year? Or did Andre having an extension that got in the steed in making NBA history that way? Well, should that just cement the award for him forever?

[Ryan Rosillo]

I have a really soft spot for Andre Blatch. Okay. Like, we used to talk about him all the time when Van Pelt and I did Wizards Daily. Because if you go back to those Blatch years, that group. And then I followed Twitter.

[Bill Simmons]

That was your first book.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. I didn't get. I mean, I still have to pay the advance back, but they had a thing where they would be on the road. And like, I think one guy on the team complained about having to pay a cover charge going to a club. Like, they were just constantly sharing with you everything that you could assume about, like, where their heads were at that season.

[Bill Simmons]

Early Internet too, and the early social media Internet, which made it more fun.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Blatch's profile pick was incredible. So I followed him immediately. And then every now and then he would just drop these gems and then like they'd had a bad losing streak again. And I felt bad for him because he was like just walking around trying to figure it out. It was like late at night. The other thing, I don't know if this could ever be a category. I don't know if it's a segment, but it could be Horniest guy on Twitter. Because I'll tell you with the for you feed, you know, look if you see somebody cute, you might look on a profile picture, right? And then next thing you know you're like, hey, this guy likes cute girls. Which I think makes, makes, you know, checks a lot of boxes for a lot of American males out there. So then you'll see a picture and you'll go, oh, this guy follows her. And then if I'm being honest, I've kept track of it a little bit where I'll go, there's a few dudes that are not afraid to hit that follow button. And it just does circle back to the wizard. So I would like to have you keep it. Andre Blatch forever. Just because I like talking about him.

[Bill Simmons]

He made a great case.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Great passer for his size ball handling.

[Bill Simmons]

The 2025 Ewing Theory Award for star most likely to be Ewing theoried next season. I have Ja, Morant, Zion and Booker as my three candidates. Booker eligible, never won a title.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It's got to be jaw.

[Bill Simmons]

I agree. Although Ja had the the game winner the other night and had some Memphis fans puffing their chest out a little bit about it. And then I don't they beat the straight.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He's. He's your guy. I understand. We've been through this before, okay? We know how it works. He's your guy. He's giving you a lot of special moments so you're going to defend his guy. But I would say to the Memphis fans that are confused on why Jot would be fined versus other players doing the same salute. Like all you have to do is go through the timeline and all the stuff and the Jalen Rose interview and all the things that he had to go through which again he brought on himself. And it's fine. Like I'm not watching him going, oh, I don't like this guy because of all this shit in the past. But it's fairly common sense that you end up being punished based on how often you kind of fall into this category.

[Bill Simmons]

It's like the Draymond, some of the Draymond stuff. He gets punished for a different level of scrutiny because of the past behavior.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Welcome to life.

[Bill Simmons]

The Lou Brown award out of nowhere team that surprised us the most, Detroit, Portland and Houston I think are the three. And I would have to say as great as the Portland, Houston out of nowhere seasons were it has to be Detroit. That team was all time rock bottom last year and turned into a really fun league pass team. They're going to be a six seed, probably playing the Knicks in round one. There's going to be at least one awesome near fight in that thing. Cade turned into a real guy. And for me it's Detroit. Who is it for you?

[Ryan Rosillo]

So Detroit's the only team in a full season to triple their win total. So 14 and 68 last year. And I probably said too many times last season going as bad as they are. How are they worse than Washington roster wise? Like this team has so many other things that I like about it versus what the Wizards had and they still ended up finishing behind them. Which speaks to the Monty thing, which you may never get a chance to change that award because it's not just going to be on record. It is about a dude who took a job who apparently had no interest in learning about his own players. Like it is an A.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a comical and they're still taking shots at him a year later. Anyone associated with that team is still pretty bummed out about how he approached the job last season. Yeah, for a variety.

[Ryan Rosillo]

There's a technical thing historically on tripling your win total because The Bobcats in 2012 finished at 7 and 59 and then went 21 and 61 the next year. But remember that was a shorter season.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So they had less games to play, less chances. There's not a Bob. Are you going to do a Bobcats documentary or would that be straight to. Is anybody going to do that? Have you been probably at one.

[Bill Simmons]

Probably a one parter.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Seems right.

[Bill Simmons]

Let's. We'll take one more break and then we have some good awards left. All right. One of our big categories. The ML car trying to trade for a retired Michael Jordan award for goofiest but possibly real off season subplot. I have 5 what ifs for you. This is for the summer. What if the Lakers shop Luka? What if KD opted out and signed for a vet minimum to chase a title? What if Lamelo Zion and JA were in the same three team trade? What if Paul George demanded a trade and what if Phoenix said fuck this and just stretch Bradley Beal. Those are my five nominees for goofiest but possibly real off season subplot.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Without knowing the nominees, I had Beal and that you're dealing with somebody who seems totally happy just going, I don't care. Yeah, and that's dangerous.

[Bill Simmons]

Send the checks every two weeks.

[Ryan Rosillo]

But what is it? Do you think there's any scenario where he goes all right, like I know you don't want me to be here and you guys brought me off the bench for this stretch and this hasn't been a good season. I mean I Don't know. I mean, what's the market for him on top of everything else? Does that fix their problems? Probably not, because he's.

[Bill Simmons]

There's only one way to do it at this point, and it's happened a couple times in the history of the NBA. I remember Reggie Theus was a good one. I can't remember if he was on the Bulls or the Kings, but he just got benched and they just didn't play him and they basically tried to break him. That cap situation was way different back then than it is now. But that's Phoenix's last resort is to just not play him anymore and be like, all right, we'll keep paying you, but you're just not going to play basketball. So I think it will get to game of chicken. He might be okay with it, though. That's the problem.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Whatever I watched in that Boston game, I was really startled by. I hadn't seen anything remotely approach that in a while. It doesn't. In the social media era, it doesn't really happen.

[Ryan Rosillo]

By the way, when he also was out for that stretch, there was this kind of tease Phoenix moment where they were. I like the way they were playing again for like 10 days or something like that.

[Bill Simmons]

And then they got killed and Durant got hurt and the moment was over. So Phoenix stretching Bradley Beal, which nobody's been stretched with, two years and 100 million left on their deal, but as a way to get under the second apron and just basically take the hit for the next five years, it's not inconceivable. The Zaza Pakuli Award for the one rule that absolutely needs to be changed. What did you have for this off.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Arm drives from the offensive player? It's, you know, this isn't my big rant like last year where I just kind of lost my mind on that podcast, but I think we're all better for it. But this is just. There's certain players. It's kind of the PJ Washington where guys are hitting the hole like a running back and they have that forearm locked out. Davey Davion Mitchell had one the other night where he drove and hit a defender so hard and then got the shot up and there was like a little bit of contact coming back towards him. And Davion looked at the rest like, are you guys kidding me? He touched me. And you're like, dude, you're mad.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You off armed, this guy. So I think there's a little cleaning up that has to be done. On how aggressive the off arm is. Of the ball handler on drives.

[Bill Simmons]

I like it. I have two runner up and then my number one, I'll make the annual plea. Please don't let coaches challenge block charges anymore. Let's just say the call is the call and we just move on. I never want to watch another replay of a review of a block charge. I don't think guys should be able to have to eat the field goal attempt on a half court shot. I'm just getting rid of that, make it a team shot the same way they have like team rebounds. Because then I think it would inspire more people to try to take half court or three court shots and we might have a couple.

[Ryan Rosillo]

If you care about your field goal percentage that much that you end up 7 of 15 instead of 7 of 16, don't ask for the fucking ball on the inbounds. How about you care, right? That's what drives me crazy. He's like, so then you're going to pretend that you didn't get the shot off in time because you didn't want to hurt your field goal percentage? Stop getting the ball in the inbounds. Let the other guys that don't care and understand, like, as absurd as the shot is that they're not more worried about a couple percentage points.

[Bill Simmons]

I also think we should have 20 second instant replay challenges where within 20 seconds it's like, you think, no, and we just flip it and keep the game going versus like the five minutes. But here's my big one. And you know what? I almost had this last year and I think it's gotten worse this year and I really hate it. And I don't know where the end game is, but the rolling the ball on the inbounds pass. So the clock starts but the shot clock doesn't start. And this whole game of like the ball's just going to roll and we're going to kill time. And then somebody's like, all right, fine, I'm going to run. First of all, somebody's going to get injured on this. At some point, somebody's going to dive into somebody else's legs and somebody's going to lose their knee. I just think it's so fucking stupid. You roll the ball in, the shot clock should start and the game clock should start. I don't know why they do it this way. And I would change this. So that's my passion for this year. Priscilla.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, I'm cool with that. I don't know that we're ever going to get shorter reviews. We might pretend we are, but, well.

[Bill Simmons]

20 second quickie reviews. I left this award open for you. The Ben Simmons award for best Ben Simmons moment. I figured you'd have something and you could just go, yeah, he had a.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Push shot the other night. It was a couple weeks ago where it was pretty ugly coming out, but then it went in. And then based on the confidence from that first one going in, he had hit back to back shots within a few minutes of each other, which I think has to be one of the highest output moments we've had in a rotation. I thought it was that until last night. Playing Dallas. Anthony Davis is on the left side. He has a primary defender on him. Simmons is the low man. And Simmons rotated to double Anthony Davis and then communicated in a way that you don't see where it was almost like, hey, you see Davis over there? This is like while the clock is going, I'm going to now go over here and double team him. So you've got to slide over. If somebody cuts behind me and everybody's like, great, that's awesome. And then Davis ran. So I thought it was great communication, even if it felt a little slower than what I'm used to.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, see you. I'm positive. Ben Simmons moments. Yeah, I was going to go for the the preseason media day for the Nets when he said how he's going to be a leader this year for the team I had that.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Buyout watch was fun.

[Bill Simmons]

Then they bought him out. The 2010 Baron Davis Award for single best mail in this is, I think, the toughest category we've had so far because you could make a small case for Paul George on the Sixers most years, but not this year. Jimmy Butler on Miami and Bradley Beal just the whole season and it is like Bird of magic in the mid-80s. We could argue about this for days. I personally think it's Butler on Miami because he was willfully trying to force their hand to get traded and doing all kinds of things. But I also can't shake Beal and I don't want to have co winners, so I'm going to let you pick.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, I mean, if you're just going Jimmy, but you know, like any great drama, he's got that kind of redemptive arc right now, as annoying as that may be. And I'd expect Miami fans should be annoyed, I guess. You know, it's hard to pretend that you're in. But I'll never understand lacing them up, going to play basketball and then going, I don't care if I look bad, I can't Imagine having that inside of you where you would go, well, that guy scored on me because I don't care, or I didn't try to help us win because I don't care. And I'm just not gonna. I'm just not really gonna play that hard. I've already made my money or whatever. Like, you'd think some of that stuff, like, at least with all the bullshit that Durant has gone through, where some of it I think is unfair, some of it is certainly fair and he's brought it on himself. So I'm not absolving a blame here, but, you know, it's been a pretty soap opera ish second half of Durant's career.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

But there's never been a moment where I've seen him going through all of his stuff where I haven't. Like, I've never questioned how much he wanted to play basketball. I think once he finally gets out there, runs like he wants to beat you the entire time. And look, there's 450, 500 plus players over the course of a season. There's going to be a couple guys that actually don't really love basketball and don't really care, but I can't imagine actually being really good. Like, Beal's an incredibly talented player. We all know how good Jimmy can be. It'll forever blow my mind that somebody has that ability and maybe that's just a disconnect of them looking at it as a job. And I'm still just in love with the game of going like, I don't care if I look bad in front of all these people that came to see me tonight, because I'm getting paid and I don't care. So my tiebreaker would be Beal, because.

[Bill Simmons]

I think that's the right answer. Because at least Butler, something really seemingly catastrophic happened with him and Pat Riley, and there's some sort of breach, whoever was right, whoever was wrong, that made it impossible for Butler to play even at a decent level for them anymore. He was just broken in Miami. I don't know what Beal's excuse is.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And look, the metrics are the worst he's been at since his third year in the league. The last time he's played, I think more than 60 games is 20, 18, 19. So even when the trade was made and we understand how talented he is, because I remember I had said, like, if you go through this, this guy's missing like 20, 25% of the season. And there was some pushback because I was using total games on the shortened seasons and it's like, okay, but you're still. You're making an excuse for a guy that doesn't seem like he's available enough. He's. He's just doesn't. On top of everything else, which again, you know, if you're Phoenix with the effort that you get from him on certain nights, you'd almost rather him not be available.

[Bill Simmons]

We got to rip through a couple awards here. The Shane Battier award for Sloan Conference Statner Darling du jour. This just happened. That big article on Jokic's defense and him kicking. Kicking passes and how he's had the most kicked passes in this decade and more kick passes. This whole thing about Jokic, like the. Actually his defense, by the way, I've always felt this way. I think when you take like the best players. I still feel like I felt this way about Steph. I felt this way about Bird and Magic once upon a time, even though Magic would get torched by small guards. But those guys were always. They're always in steals. They were always like, could read what the other team was doing. They're always good coming out of timeouts on defense. But I like this whole Jokic thing. Um, and then the other candidate for this is. Jokic's on off stuff is just the most incredible it's ever been. I mean, when he plays, they have a. Like a 125.4 rating or something like that, which would be the best ever. And when he doesn't play, their 30th in the league on offense. So they're either best all time or worst in the league, depending on whether he plays or not. There's so many good advanced stats that I. I swear I don't. I think there's going to be some late Jokic momentum for MVP next week, even though it seems like Shea has it locked up. I think the stats are so crazy and I don't want to spoil next week's pod. The stats are so crazy and the season has been so unbelievable. Fando has Shea at like minus 1000 or something like that. I don't know if it's over yet. That's all I'm going to say.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Sounds like somebody's leaning Jokic.

[Bill Simmons]

Nobody's leaning anywhere. The David Kahn Award for worst GM performance. So my big question is, does this now become the Nico Harrison Award? Did he do enough to supplant David Kahn, who took Johnny Flynn and Ricky Rubio over Steph Curry among 17 other terrible things he did?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Okay, Nico was good last year.

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, so just one bad. One bad night.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Pretty bad one. This isn't. I can't believe I called her. It's like I can't believe I married a cocktail waitress in Thailand.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, well, nominees. Nico Harrison, Sacramento firing Mike Brown and then panic trading De'Aaron Fox, New Orleans throwing Dyson Daniels into the Murray trade, Miami's entire handling of the Jimmy Butler deal or Denver being 5 million under the second apron and not having a bench. Those would be my David Connor word. Worst front office nominees. But the answer is Nico Harrison.

[Ryan Rosillo]

But I at least think you should bring up Masai because Masai is.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, with all the extensions. Great. Let's add him.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Right. So Masai, sight unseen with ingram, gave him three years, 120 million guaranteed. And you could say he's hasn't played a game for him yet inside and seen it. Obviously he knows what he's doing. Look at the free agent thing that we teased earlier. Like maybe there's a number out there for Ingram that's higher than we could imagine. Which is usually the lesson that we hear or I should say experience every time we start going like, oh, why is that guy going to make that much money? And then he gets signed to it. But it's Scotty Barnes, Ingram, quickly RJ Barrett and Pearl next year for a combined $156.4 million.

[Bill Simmons]

Seven seed at best.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I don't know. I mean, look, what if they get your players back? Maybe with Dark, who knows? I mean they've. They've outperformed everything you could possibly imagine the second half of the year. So maybe they're just developing all the guy. Maybe they'll be the deepest team in the league next year. It's just an expensive five. I'd love to know for that five.

[Bill Simmons]

I'd love to know why Denver didn't do a little bit more this year. I don't understand how their bench is this bad when you are being blessed with the best offensive player since God knows when.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, not top 20, but pretty good.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, not top 20, but close.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I just want to shout them out. You have this amazing asset you have to spend. When you have an asset like that and they're not doing it and they own other teams, it's not like they don't have the money. It's very strange to me.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You know what though is this might be the. I drafted these guys. I brought in Pickett, I brought in Watson, you know, I brought in Swather. You know, just trust me.

[Bill Simmons]

I know what I'm doing. Well, I Don't think you do, because I think a lot of people would want to play Denver in the playoffs. The way this is shaken up, Denver and Memphis are the two teams. I think people are fine playing as great as Jokic is, it'll be funny.

[Ryan Rosillo]

If they get bounced out the I'm just advanced scouting Yoko Chate. There was a fly in front of me. For those watching on the clip, I'm advanced scouting it because if he loses in the first round, then it's going to be like, can we get Marcus Morris back in here?

[Bill Simmons]

See, can we have. He's outside the building. I would say them and Memphis are the two best candidates for the 40 sweep in round one. If we were going to have a shocking. I can't believe that team got swept. I would have Denver, Memphis the Vitali Patompico award for worst deadline trade named after the time Rick Pitino, during a strike season gave up an unprotected first round pick for Vitaly Patompico. That turned out they could have either taken Sean Marin or Andre Miller and they didn't get either because they got a backup center. So I don't love Miami dumping Dennis Schroeder for no reason when they got him in that deal, when they clearly kind of want to be a playoff team, I guess. But at the Mark Williams trade, when you have Luca and you have this chance in the west for the Lakers to do that trade and then to back out of it and then just kind of get nothing and now it's unquestionably going to haunt them in the playoffs that they don't have a center. I have to nominate that worst deadline is the trade, is the Mark Williams cancellation trade. That's what I have.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I don't know what's going to happen with LA here. I don't know what's going to happen in the West. Okay. Other than I think OKC is going to beat all of these teams and I'd be really, really surprised if they're not representing the West. I think they're that good.

[Bill Simmons]

Me as well.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And they have all of these options and it's hard to find like a flaw with them. I mean, I.

[Bill Simmons]

We saw one Friday night. What would you say that is the double big lineup. They had some issues. They kind of got pounded on the boards in a way that I was like, oh, okay, fly in the ointment. All right.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Credit to IME too, for the double. Big patience because early on with Adams.

[Bill Simmons]

You watch that game, Adams was like, they were like impactful in that Game. Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know. That wasn't nothing.

[Ryan Rosillo]

But no, I came back in after a tough day on the seas and then watched it late. And it's. Sometimes you're better watching it when you know what happened.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Because now you're not watching it with anticipation. You're just watching, trying to figure out what was going on. And you know, I think there'll be sometimes like this is being really, really critical of an awesome team historically here.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

But there'll be some like Case and Wallace minutes where you go, well, is that. And then I'm like, what are you, what are you mad about all eight guys not being off the charts, impossible to deal with on both ends of the floor? Because I think last year as we were ramping up for the playoffs, like right around this time last year, we were talking Celtics and you just laid it all out like whatever your issues are. And I think we both had them with some of the late offensive stuff. There's still games with the Celtics offense. I'm like, is this still really good? And then it's like last 15 second offense. It's like, yeah, it is. It is that good.

[Bill Simmons]

At some point, math becomes math, right? OKC's math is outrageous.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I'd like Drew Holiday to have the ball in his hands more often on some of these threes, but that, that's just what they're going to do. And so even if there is a night where I don't really love it and then you go check the numbers again and be like, hey, you just, you have to love it, move on, accept it. You laid out the stat profile historically, point differential and all this stuff. What OKC is doing right now puts them at least on a regular season list of one of the all time special teams. Are you the same place with them now that you were with Boston last year where it was a bit of a wake up of like, hey, whatever you think of this team, they're awesome and headed to the playoffs and should be the clear favorite. And we should stop questioning it just because it feels new with them. Even though I think they're the clear.

[Bill Simmons]

Favorite in the west. The only difference with them in Boston is Boston at least had had a bunch of guys who had been in a bunch of big games and big situations.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And okc, I shouldn't even say it's new. You're right.

[Bill Simmons]

No, but that's, but that, that's the only thing you're going to nitpick on if you're going to nitpick. OkC. Is, it's like, well, we just have to kind of see it. They got to win four straight rounds. They're going to be playing some of the best players in the league and some of the best players of all time. And let's see. But the math is saying it would be a complete aberration if they didn't make the Finals. Like something really, really, truly fluky would have happened. And then when they play Boston, we've seen those games and they had really 2 4th quarters where they really stuck it to Boston. So yeah, if you're betting your life, OKCs, I don't think there's any question, but who knows? I did that Houston game gave me a little hope. Or like, oh, I wonder if we'll see this in the playoffs. I wonder if teams are going to try to bang them around. Let's do the Team Moran Award for Best most polarizing NBA family member, which I think was obviously Bronnie this year just because of all the content he generated. We don't need to cover all the other family members. This one I'm really excited about because this is really where you shine. And I'll be interested to see how many guys we have in the same list through Reggie Lewis. I don't know, I just like this guy award for young guy who doesn't play much. But you just kind of like last year, Kamara was on our list for this. I have the following nominees and feel free to throw in anybody else. The two Nets guys, Keon Johnson, Jalen Wilson, those guys just fucking play hard every game. Every time I watch the Nets I'm like, Jesus Christ, these guys really gave a shit. Bryce Sensiba on Utah. I don't know how much Utah you've watched, but the catch and shoot numbers are crazy. Like he's clearly going to be a nine man rotation guy for a good team at some point in his career. We've talked about Ron Holland before. I still like Walker on the Pacers. I don't know why and I can't explain it. Santos and the warriors plus minus is crazy for him and he also seems very comfortable playing with like hall of Fame players. And then I'll throw in AJ Johnson just because Zach mentioned him on the POD last week about how he's looked a little frisky on the Wizards. Who do you have anybody else I didn't mention?

[Ryan Rosillo]

There's a few frisky Wizards, by the way, including Bub Carrington, who was my first choice for this at 32 the other night. He is 20 in July and he's getting shots up now, man. He's getting those shots up.

[Bill Simmons]

He's 20 in July.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, my Lord.

[Ryan Rosillo]

He's 6 4. I sent a text to somebody with the Wizards. Remember when they had that fun Knicks game months ago? I sent a text and said, hey, you know, I know, like you're not on everybody's radar, but I happened to catch like three games in a, in a 10 day span or whatever. I was like, you guys are playing really hard. And it was just a thanks for watching. I don't know if I shared that with you sometimes. I'm repeating myself here a bit. I may.

[Bill Simmons]

I don't think you shared that one with me.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Maybe I shared it off the air, but I.

[Bill Simmons]

So you got Bub. Bub's your number one.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. And I'm going to give a little love. Like his rotational stuff could be out of the mix here now as Minnesota probably feels better about what they're doing, but Jalen Clark having a moment with this team where it's like, hey, Dillingham's going to get the first minutes and I think it's a little too chaotic for him that they're not going to trust him in some tight spots here. Terence Shannon not getting minutes when it felt like he was probably one of the more plug and play rotational guys that could come in and get you some buckets because of what he had done in college and he's older and all that kind of stuff. But there have been some defensive things with, with Jane Clark, with Minnesota where I'm like, all right, like, this dude, this dude is, is ready. Like, he's not remotely intimidated by any of this stuff. So I don't know what he projects to be the three point shooting numbers. You know, it's not like it's a high volume, but they're, they're pretty good. And he just competes like crazy and he, he kind of almost jumped the other guys that you would have more expectations for at certain times this season.

[Bill Simmons]

I almost threw Shireman on this. Not enough of a sample size, but there's been a couple moments where you're like, oh, not nothing here. Carol Dawson award for most unabashed tank job. Phillies 3 and 22 in their last 25 and actively trying not to win games. So I, I think they're the winner. Shout out to Utah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

But they did it. You know, look, we can't even make fun of Philly because you're sitting there, you're looking at the OKC pick And you, when this conversation started ramping up, it's like, they have the seventh or eighth worst record in the NBA. And this is the part where I. Again, there's certain things with Daryl that I totally respect. It's like, well, if we're doing it, we're doing it. We're not screwing around. We're shutting down. Nobody's here. And they were 19 and 27 at that point and have now on this 4 and 28 stretch. I mean, Quinton Grimes cost him a couple games in there. This could have been. This could have been like a 2 and 30.

[Bill Simmons]

This could have been a layup. Yeah. Dwight Howard. Sorry, dude. I can't help it. I just don't like watching you play basketball, Ward. Julius Randall seems like a nice guy. I just don't really enjoy watching him play basketball. And he's my pick, and he's been playing better lately than he's played on Minnesota all year. But I just don't really enjoy it. And I'll be honest. 15, 16, 17 years at Demar DeRozan. At this point, I think I'm good.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Oh, you don't see. I actually find myself.

[Bill Simmons]

I think I'm good. I just feel like I'm okay with it. I'm okay with the experience. And Kyle Kuzma is another one that. I think I'm good. Just think I'm fine. I'm fine there. Who do you have for this award?

[Ryan Rosillo]

I just wonder what it was like when Sacramento's like, hey, DeRozan, I can't believe you even offered up DeRozan. Because I think his closing fourth quarter, like, getting to his stuff. When he got Mobley twice in that game, when they beat him, when the Cavs had that weird road trip stretch. Great.

[Bill Simmons]

He's. The team's gonna go 40 and 42 again.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. But there was, like, the Dwight Howard stuff is so funny because Dwight Howard is really good. Yeah, he was really good. But then it was like, hey, I need to be taking all the shots at the end of the games. It's like, well, what did you work on this summer?

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, if I get fouled, I'm gonna make one of two.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You have random Zach lavine. I just want to know what it was like for DeRozan when they were like, hey, guess what? We. We got Zach Levine again.

[Bill Simmons]

You played with him, right?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. You guys, chemistry.

[Bill Simmons]

I played for them.

[Ryan Rosillo]

The rail 30, you know, thanks for the 30 points, dude.

[Bill Simmons]

It's tough. Levine. Levine had the roller coaster ride. It was like a stock this year. Because I thought he was good on the Bulls. And then he left and the Bulls were way more fun to watch right away, which probably wasn't good for him either.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Look, I'm, I'm, I'm telling you, I could do 30 minutes on this, but, you know, there are guys that aren't my favorite. And I come to that conclusion after a lot of watching and noticing things. And I don't think that it's a coincidence to some of the dudes that I haven't been a huge fan of and guys that I'm talking about that are talented, that usually can score and put up some big, big numbers. But, you know, you look at all the Lakers stuff this year and you go, what's different? Like, hey, D'Angelo Russell isn't out there for 30 plus minutes a night, you know, and the second Levine's out of there, even with his ability and the scoring numbers and all this stuff, you're like, what's different about Chicago? Like, well, you know, even with his numbers, like, you're removing all the other little things that are just. He never seemed to click for him. And so those are the players that I, I just won't argue about.

[Bill Simmons]

Sometimes you're one trade away, sometimes you're one injury away. Ray Allen 2010 Playoffs Trick or treat award goes to a team or a player. I'm going Houston Rockets for this because I've changed my mind on them 17 times during the season, and I'll probably change it a couple more times as we go. But I went from thinking this is the team you want to play in the playoffs to, I don't know, they kind of freaked me out in that OKC game and in general, like, they've held this two spot and I kept waiting for them to follow the pack and they had that little losing streak. It's never perfect. I don't love their offense in the last six, seven, eight minutes, but they play hard and they're really tough and there's certain matchups where they just overpower. I mean, they got rebounded okc by 15 rebounds the other night. Granted, the game meant nothing to okc, but I don't know what to make of them in the playoffs. This might be it. There might be no gear at all. It might just be bad shots down the stretch and they lose the series four one where they led into all five. Or maybe there's something more there. I don't know. I don't know what to make of.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Them Clippers for me, because. Good one, Kawhi Looked great again last night. Getting his stuff going left, pull up. Can't do anything with it. You know, an off the break kind of transition three where you just can see that he's totally locked in to what he wants to be. Zoo has been a beast. If you get Zoo against the wrong team, meaning the wrong team for the other side. Because there's just a few teams here that want to play small. Like, I don't know if I don't think the Lakers want to play Jackson Hayes a ton of minutes. I don't think that's breaking news. Okay, so they'd rather go small, but when they're playing against Golden State, and I don't know that I'm right about this, but you're like, are you playing into their hands a little bit by playing small and then them being like, we're.

[Bill Simmons]

The answer is yes. They're like, we're. Please, we can play Draymond at the five. Thank you.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah. So this is fun. So then when I think about, like, Houston having the double big thing, which changes a lot of, like, how you think about their closing group depending on the big guys they're going up against, like, the Clippers with the way Zoo is playing.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah.

[Ryan Rosillo]

And I know that it's. It's a coin toss for Harden and all the playoff stuff. Although I think I kind of joked with you, like, you think he'd be due just to kind of have, like, a nice little, like, run, But I. I feel like his pace does not adjust to the pace that you need it to be, and that's why he has the problems that he's had. But there's a. There's a scenario where, like, there's a first round matchup for them, and I'm going, oh, my God. Like, is there a path here? Is there a path to what?

[Bill Simmons]

If they played OKC in Round one? Imagine I. I've seen them play twice in person. I was like, shit, this would be an awesome playoff series. And they have a couple things they bring to the table that aren't great for okc. Well, there's some things OKC brings to the table that are horrible for the Clippers. But it's. My point is that's not a typical 18 matchup. That's not the Cleveland Cavaliers playing Orlando. No. Jalen Suggs in Round one. Like, that's a hard series you're going to have to win.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Do you think they're quite healthy? It wouldn't be a national media thing because nobody would really care. But considering how all in they went on the Kawhi stuff and how he hasn't been healthy at the end of the playoffs or the end of the year for a bunch of seasons in a row. The Paul George part of it. And then what you've given up and then watching SGA become. I mean, there's just a lot of shit here where you go, man, and imagine. Imagine if they had some moment of like a 2, 2 series in the Western Conference finals where you go, you know those guys, Lawrence Frank and the crew, like they. The strategy was the right strategy and it couldn't have gone. But yet is there this redemptive arc where they repaired it on the fly and let Paul George just walk because they knew better than anybody else. Although they still did offer the three years. Is there some part of this where we're being brought into game five and somebody's written a Wright Thompson essay.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, and it's.

[Ryan Rosillo]

You know what I mean?

[Bill Simmons]

Torture Clippers.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Well, if you go to the last 25 games, which is a huge sample size, they're fifth in net rating. And when Kawhi plays and looks like the way he's looked really for a few weeks now, I just wouldn't want to see that team. And honestly, I wouldn't want to see Minnesota either. If I'm okc. They're going to. We both think they're going to make the finals, but it just sucks that those are two possible 18 matchups. Like you play. You're going to win 68, 69 games and that's. That's your prize. We only have a couple words left. We can rip through this. The white chocolate was a problem award for 2025 guy whose season was much better in 42nd Twitter highlights. I'll give you Ja Zion Lamelo, Jordan Poole or Russell Westbrook. Who do you have.

[Ryan Rosillo]

The turn by Nuggets fans on Westbrook here is amazing.

[Bill Simmons]

It feel like that game. I mean they. That's another team that may fall at a 7, 8. That game was a catastrophic loss. Like to waste that level of where Joe Jokic got to that game and to have it 19 times and then blow it and they haven't won since. Look, he's fine as your ninth guy and as your guy, we're resting all the starters. Russ, can you just go out there and do everything and put up a 3210 10. Let us hang around. But I just don't know how you play him in crunch time in some of these games. It's too much of a wild Card. It's too risky. Right. The risk exceeds the reward. Can't do it. You've Jokic and Murray and Gordon and Porter and Braun. That's it. Russia never play in crunch time for them in a playoff game.

[Ryan Rosillo]

This is what I've thought the entire time, because Westbrook has been more accepting of this role with them than at any other point. But there may have been, even for somebody as stubborn as he is with his approach to basketball, like, maybe even he had a realization of going, I need to change this a little bit. And when you're playing in the same minutes, the same lineup as Jokic, you can see him almost in a hurry to get him the ball back. That could lead to some of those other problems. But on the year, considering how bad they needed somebody to play these kind of minutes, a guy that was never really going to, like, question his own value, the ego of a player that you kind of need as a foundation to even play in this league, they needed, like, it's been a win because of how limited their options were. It's like, okay, well, we're going to get this guy cheap because he's been on six teams here in a very short amount of time because he hasn't fit in and maybe hasn't accepted what he needed to be. So I think there was an acceptance part from Westbrook here that was admirable. But I think anybody that kind of knew where his limitations were, you were like, is he actually going to close? Like, it's. And, And. And I'm with you. And it's not just the mistakes in that Minnesota game. There's just a lot of times where you're like, what's the spacing going to look like? Is that going to screw up some of the other stuff they're going to do? Um, I also think there's something with Westbrook, too. Depending on the matchup, like, it's going to be, if I get to play the Lakers, I'm going to prove to them that they're morons. If I get to play against the Clippers, I'm going to. There's a revenge factor. Four of these teams.

[Bill Simmons]

How many minutes do you think he's played this year?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Are you asking me? Total.

[Bill Simmons]

Total minutes. Total minutes. How many do you think he played?

[Ryan Rosillo]

I don't. I don't know. Off the top of my head. I know. I mean, he's played.

[Bill Simmons]

What would your guess be? I'll just tell you. 2002 minutes. Heading into tonight's game, he's played 2000 minutes. That's crazy. They paid. They paid nothing for him. So for that it's a win. The losses when he's actually involved in the plot, when they're desperately trying to not fall into that 6, 7, 8 range. And they had a pretty good foothold for the three spot, and now it's looking pretty grim.

[Ryan Rosillo]

No, he's been really important throughout this season because of their lack of options. And so it has worked out. But the hesitation I always had with it was, let's see what happens here in the playoffs. Cause I think this could be the kind of thing where the game log now, who knows? Maybe it could be game and score and foul of trouble, all that kind of stuff. But, like, if we're talking real close games in the first round for Denver. Yeah, he's not.

[Bill Simmons]

After the last 10 minutes, you look.

[Ryan Rosillo]

At some of those game logs and it's like, okay, 19 minutes, 15 minutes. And you're like, oh, like, so who's your wed?

[Bill Simmons]

Choco was a problem guy.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I would say if you took Isaiah Stewart clips from today and then ran them and said that this was the 90s, were like, then everybody would just say, oh, Steph would have just had 12.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, he would have been killed. That's good. I like that.

[Ryan Rosillo]

My least favorite con, the Stewart pulling down Giannis from behind play is indefensible. That's fucking nasty, man.

[Bill Simmons]

Especially top five guy in the week. All right, three awards left. The Travoltan, Pulp Fiction, comeback of the year, Jimmy Butler, the Lakers as a franchise, or Scoot Henderson. Who do you have?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Scoop?

[Bill Simmons]

Okay, me too. Well, this is it. The second most prestigious award we have. It's the 2025 Shamut Face Award. This is your award. I know you put a lot of time and thought and effort into this.

[Ryan Rosillo]

So who do you have concanipple.

[Bill Simmons]

On? Duke?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Oh, so you're going prospects?

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, I've already graded it out.

[Bill Simmons]

What do you like about it?

[Ryan Rosillo]

I don't know what age that the red cheeks thing goes away. He's awesome, by the way. I think he's even better than maybe we realize, maybe get him the ball a few more times last night. But you get older, everybody looks younger. There's a weird thing that happens. I don't know what it is with the science of it, but if you look at like fraternity composites when you're in college, all of the guys from the old pictures look like you're like, how come that guy was 40 and he was in college? And you're like, that's just dudes looked older. And then when you're older and then you're watching college hoops, like every year, guys just look younger and younger and younger. So I don't think he's on the Mount Rushmore of Dukeface. I think that's early Cherokee Parks. Maybe a little Quinn Snyder in there, maybe Grayson Allen, maybe Danny Ferry. So I don't know if Knippo can make that, but there's just a face. And it's not the same thing as shame at face. But I'm just projecting him maybe to be there one day. And it doesn't even mean that, you know, you, you can be good looking and have shame and face.

[Bill Simmons]

It's a note when you see it.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Last award, the 2024 League Pass MVP award. Most reliably entertaining guy, day after day for six months. My winner is Nikola Jokic.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It's really the only winner, but I would offer up Ant if I had to offer up somebody else as like.

[Bill Simmons]

An alternative, like Independent Spirit Awards kind of winner.

[Ryan Rosillo]

If you can't have Jokic, that go with Ant. Even the Sixers closed the other night. It was awesome. The shots that he was hitting in the double overtime win against Denver. I don't know what it is about the threes when they matter the most. It's almost like a pitcher who cranks and it's not what he's doing, but it's like the shot goes in with more velocity than it's supposed to. On the ones that really matter, there's a crispness to his shot and his athleticism and the way that it goes in that's visually appealing.

[Bill Simmons]

You know, it's funny you mention this because it's not a rational confidence, because he's rationally confident. But I do think, like, if it's 18 and it's OKC Minnesota, I think out of anybody in the league, he's the one who would go into that series going, I don't care what the record is, I'm better than everybody in that team and really, genuinely, truly believe it. Which has been really fun to watch. And he's had some great last three minutes of the game, kind of turning it up a notch stuff that. How old is he now? 23.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I don't know.

[Bill Simmons]

I think he's 23. Yeah, it's. That's a good one. But Jokic, this Yokich season and it doesn't look like he's going to win the MVP, but holy shit, man. Just. There's been 10 games from him this Year that you're just like, I just can't believe somebody's doing this. Like when you go like look at the Wiltshit stats on basketball reference like, oh my God, it wasn't just a 50 point a game year. There was this other season he had 44 a game. Like what was that like to watch that? Not that Jokic is putting up points like that, but just the day to day like it, it honestly feels like any box scorer is conceivable. He's had box scorers where like there's no way anyone in the, in basketball could ever have this. And he's had five of those this year. But then when you watch how he's just, how he does everything for them, like he's their only real rebounder, he runs the offense, he scores all their stuff in crunch time. He sets up everybody else like everything he does, it's just, I've never seen anything like it day to day. We didn't have league pass in the 80s for you know, the great players of that era. And we only got to watch Jordan when he was on, you know, tnt. We didn't get to watch this that afternoon. This is fucking crazy.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I'm seeing, I look sounds like somebody's leaning Jokic.

[Bill Simmons]

I'm not leaning anywhere yet. I, I'm, I'm keeping an open mind to the last week of the season. It's really tough for me not to vote for somebody who's going to win 68 games and have one of the great guard seasons in the history of the position offensively. Especially when I, you know, I try to value the winning piece if he's going to win 20 more games than Denver. But I, the more I stare at this, that 60, 10, 10 game like broke my brain. That was unbelievable. I've never have you ever seen somebody just get the ball 25ft from the basketball and the other team knew what he was going to do and he would still back around and just get like a three foot skyhook, like, what the fuck? I know there are business guys in Minnesota, but I just thought that game was just nuts. Wasn't just the points, it was how he was getting the points and how easily he was doing everything. It was nuts to watch.

[Ryan Rosillo]

That's where whenever I hear anybody just knocking him, I lose my mind because you go, he's in control of everything that's happening. Everything that's happening. And then the understanding, I forget what the number was. I don't know if it was hardened to Zubot for number one. But it was like who has the most field goals that are assisted or something like Christian Brown is number two in the NBA. Christian Brown, clearly because Denver hasn't done a good job with his roster maximizing it maybe the way others should. I also wonder like if Jokic were different, would there have already been some other star players player that went through AAU with Jokic and goes, hey, you know, I'm going to come up there and play with Denver because this is. It's getting alarming because of the rings rule for Jokic where it's like, are we going to be allowed to appreciate him? And I know we've already touched on some of this other stuff, but he's just orchestrating all of it that's happening. And he doesn't want to shoot 30 times, he doesn't want to pull up from three as much as he does. It almost feels like Nash, where Nash would have these games. You're like, how come you're not shooting more like what's going on? And it's just the way he's wired to play basketball is still somebody that wants all of it to kind of connect and work together. And that's why I can't fathom why guys who played can watch these games and then find a way to shit on it. But you know, whatever. I mean this kind of normal now with the former player stuff. But yeah, look really good. Not top 20, 22 to 20. Yeah, I mean that Bob Pettit range.

[Bill Simmons]

Yeah, probably, you know, to Buscher. All right, those are our made up NBA awards for 2025. Congrats to all the winners and the nominees.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah.

[Bill Simmons]

Next time I see you will be Sunday night. We will know the playoff matchups. We will do some all NBA stuff. We might have to go, might even have to go two parts. But I can't remember like looking at the west standings and some games are happening right now as we talk about this west standings. The volatility of these last seven days is going to be bonkers to watch. Anyway, good to see you. Rossillo.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Yeah, we got Lakers Thunder here. Are you watching the studio yet on Apple?

[Bill Simmons]

I'm three in.

[Ryan Rosillo]

It's great.

[Bill Simmons]

You love it. Okay. How many of you watch all three?

[Ryan Rosillo]

You should get Rogan on Seth or Joe. Is Joe watching it? Has he tweeted it?

[Bill Simmons]

I don't know. I don't know if Joe's watching it. You got Lotus predictions for tonight before we go? Duke dad.

[Ryan Rosillo]

Boy, did that meme play out pretty well.

[Bill Simmons]

It's pretty predictable.

[Ryan Rosillo]

I don't know. Somebody's gonna jerk off. Somebody that'd be amazing if they went.

[Bill Simmons]

Back to the well. A double jerk. All right, I'll see you in a week.

[Ryan Rosillo]

See you.

[Bill Simmons]

All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Rosillo. Thanks to Kyle and Gahao as well, thanks to Ceruti. And don't forget White Lotus tonight on the Prestige TV podcast. And you can watch it live on the Ringer Dash TV right after that show ends. And don't forget, we put up a rewatchables the Saint. It's up. We put it up three days early, so that's what we got going. I'm going to be back on this podcast on Tuesday, and I'll see you then. Must be 21 + and President select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + in President D.C. gambling problem. Call 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com, call 1-887-897-777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplianma.org or call 800-327-550 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York.