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The Bill Simmons Podcast
The 2025 NFL Free Agency Awards With Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlbeck, and Danny Kelly
01:36:37
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- [00:00]
Bill Simmons
You're listening to the Bill Simmons podcast presented by FanDuel. FanDuel Sportsbook is the best place to bet on the NBA. We have these fun little Tuesday Friday player performance stuff. We have same game parlays. We have picks for me sometimes and boosts and all kinds of fun things. Get ready in the playoffs. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app today to get in on the action. And by the way, the Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit theringer.com RG to learn more. Listen to the end of this episode for additional details. Must be 21/president select states gaming problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com Coming up we're going to talk football in March. Why not? What's next? This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Michelob Ultra A superior light beer and the ultimate trophy. Win or lose, you're bound to enjoy the ride with a good beer in hand. Mcglobal crisp, refreshing, only 95 calories. A superior light beer. No matter the game, sport or season, Superior is worth playing for. So sign up for our ultra courtside@michelobultra.com courtside and you can enjoy some of these games with a nice beer in your hand. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2025 Anheuser Busch Michelob Ultra registered light beer, St. Louis, Missouri must be 21 + to order alcohol. Alcohol available only in select market. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I put up a new rewatchables on Monday night. We did Best in Show. It was me and Mallory Rubin and Joanna Robinson. You can check it out on The Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well, or you can watch it as a video podcast on Spotify. Joanna, Mallory and I also did a recap of season four of episode four of White Lotus. This show is getting lit. I can't wait for everybody to see episode five. We're actually recording that episode this week and episode five, it goes up a few levels. I'm just warning you, but I think the show's been really good. It's been really fun talking about it. We're doing a ringer 100 best sports moments of the Century thing that you can find on the website. We've done videos. There's gonna be some podcast stuff on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel where you can find all the clips and episodes from this. I actually did a video about three of my favorite unforgettable things that I saw going to a game in the 21st century so far, so you can check that out on my YouTube channel. All right, coming up, we are just talking football today. I imported all three fantasy guys, Danny Kelly, Danny Heifetz, Craig Horlebeck from our ringer fantasy show and our ringer draft show more since the ringer draft show. Right around now, all three of them are on and. And we are going to be breaking down our favorite things about free agency in March. I have some awards to hand out. There's a lot of draft subplots in it too. So stay tuned. Check it out. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right, we're recording this. It's 11 pt. I have the ringer fantasy football guys here. Danny Heifetz, Danny Kelly, Craig Horlbeck, and there's only one domino left that would really affect this conversation. And of course, it's Aaron Rodgers, who maybe by the time you hear this, will have a team. But he couldn't resist taking an extra two days to decide between two teams that don't really want him.
- [03:36]
Danny Heifetz
It's a fight to the death between my team and Danny Heifetz's team over 41 year old Aaron Rodgers. Like, it's wonderful. Yeah.
- [03:43]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. Who wants him less? If you guys had to pick between. Danny wants him less. Okay.
- [03:48]
Danny Heifetz
I want him more.
- [03:49]
Danny Kelly
Craig actually does want him.
- [03:51]
Danny Heifetz
I do. I do want him.
- [03:53]
Bill Simmons
All right, can you walk me through that? Why do you want Aaron Rodgers? Because he looked terrible last year and anytime he got pressured, the stats are like, truly abysmal.
- [04:00]
Danny Heifetz
Look, as with most free agent signings, you can talk yourself into it very, very quickly. Every. Every team right now is pretty much excited. Any signing they've. Any D lineman that some team overspends and gives $50 million to, like your Patriots to Milton Williams. People get overly excited about that stuff. Rogers is easy. We're in win now mode. He's better than any other option. We've already seen the Russell Wilson experiment. I don't want to do that again. Can Aaron Rodgers throw deep balls to George Pickens and DK Metcalf? I think so.
- [04:28]
Bill Simmons
Heifetz, you have. You're just shaking your head sadly. So Rogers going to the Giants and just throwing in Malik Neighbors on a bad Giants team in the same stadium where he sucked last year just sounds absolutely miserable, even by Giants standards.
- [04:42]
Craig Horlbeck
Honestly, if the Giants sign Aaron Rodgers, like, after watching what just happened with the jets, it reminds me for the Giants, watch Jason Garrett for 10 years and then hired Jason Garrett where I'm almost like, we almost deserve it. But I just, I don't want this person in my life for the next year. Like, let's be honest. But yeah, it makes sense in the sense that, well, are desperate. We got nothing else going on. One, when does that work? Two, honestly, imagine for a second the Giants actually get Aaron Rodgers and like, make the wild card round the division around and win a playoff game. You're like, yeah, now think about all the other ways that this could go wrong with Malik, neighbors wanting out and the whole thing being a mess. And I just, I just know that this is going to go terribly and the idea that everyone's just like, oh, we'll take a chance with Aaron Rodgers because we get fired if it doesn't work. Like, I hate this team enough. Why do we need to make them hate me? Why do I. Why do I need to hate them even more than I already do?
- [05:26]
Bill Simmons
Danny Kelly, you don't have a dog in this race.
- [05:29]
Danny Kelly
Yeah, yeah.
- [05:30]
Bill Simmons
But you cover football for the Ringer and you're on our podcast. You must have some sort of opinion.
- [05:34]
Danny Kelly
I think it's curious that people are forgetting that Aaron Rodgers just went into New York last year and got everyone fired. Are we? Are we forgetting? Are we forgetting that little detail? I think if you look at the touchdown to interception ratio and that is the only thing you look at and you don't watch the games, don't watch the games, don't look at their run game, don't look at any of the other stuff outside off the field. If you only look at the number of touchdowns he threw compared to his interceptions, that's where you could talk yourself into Aaron Rodgers. Everything else, you can't.
- [06:09]
Danny Heifetz
That's what I'm doing. I'm just looking at the touchdown interception ratio and I'm watching Enigma on repeat, mainly the Ayahuasca episode, and I'm ready to go.
- [06:17]
Danny Kelly
Do you just want Tomlin to get fired? Is that really what you're going for?
- [06:20]
Danny Heifetz
I think with the Giants, If Rogers goes to the Giants, he could do what he did to the jets, blow it all up. Everyone's fired. Day ball, Shane are out. I don't really think that can happen. I don't think Rogers can take down Mike Tomlin. I think it's a safer bet. And they are in this weird situation where it's like the roster and the defense is kind of good enough now to make a little bit of a run. So what are we supposed to do? Get Russell Wilson or Kirk Cousins or. I didn't want Justin Fields back. I think it's the only thing that Makes sense. Give him a two year deal, you have a decent team, go for it.
- [06:47]
Craig Horlbeck
Maybe that's even for Rogers. To the Giants. He's like an enema for the franchise.
- [06:51]
Bill Simmons
Everything else, it's like that colonoscopy juice you drink when you're about to get the colonoscopy.
- [06:56]
Danny Heifetz
Oh yeah, it's a cleanse.
- [06:58]
Bill Simmons
The cleanse juice. I. The problem is we all watch football every week.
- [07:02]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah, he's not Enigma.
- [07:07]
Bill Simmons
That's his follow up documentary. He didn't want to get hit last year. It was obvious. And I just, I don't think he's a winning quarterback anymore. Like, I honestly, I'd rather not trying to push Joe Milton on everyone. Cause I know it's in my best interest as a Pats fan, but I would much rather just roll the dice with the young guy and hope they were good versus running back last year's Aaron Rodgers and saying, well now he's a year more removed from his horrible Achilles injury and maybe he'll be crisper this time. I just don't. As I've said on the pod, I think even to you guys, I think Brady has ruined everyone's ability to look at this stuff rationally because Brady's ability to play till he's 45, much like LeBron who is now 40 and like every day it's like LeBron now has the most offensive rebounds by a 40 year old ever. And they're just listing these stats because nobody else can play that long. I just think Brady's ruined it for everyone else. I don't think it's. I think the Kirk Cousins path of how this goes is the more realistic way this should probably go. But Aaron Rodgers got what he wanted because we just spent five minutes talking about him on this podcast. He could have picked the team yesterday.
- [08:14]
Danny Kelly
We're the problem, actually. Yeah.
- [08:16]
Bill Simmons
So I have this whole gimmick I want to do before we do that. I couldn't help but notice how free agencies seems like it might be affecting the draft because like for instance, the Patriots and we'll talk about them later, but they really loaded up on their defense. You know, they got another awesome defensive tackle to put hopefully with Barmar if he's healthy. So that removes Mason Graham from them at number four. I'm just. There's no way they take him now. You have the Vegas at six who traded for Gino. You have the jets at seven who signed Justin Fields. Makes me wonder why either one of those teams would want Shador Sanders and the two guys I heard McShay and his. His partner talk about yesterday. Like could. Is there a scenario where Travis Hunter falls out of the top five? Is there a scenario where Sanders just falls because nobody in the top nine wants him? I guess my first question, Craig, is the fact that Fields is on the jets and Gino's on the Vegas. Cross those teams off for you as a Sanders destination, I think.
- [09:21]
Danny Heifetz
I think you can cross off the Raiders for as a Sanders destination more so than the Jets. I think Fields is a bit of a bridge quarterback that you could play for a little while while Shador kind of gets his. Gets his feet wet and gets his sea legs. I think the Raiders DK has said this. I don't think Pete Carroll wants to get started with a new guy. I think, I mean he was there when Gino was in Seattle because he's 80. Because he's. Yeah, they're the same age. Gino and Pete Carroll are the same age, which is he loves. They can talk about the same things. And like I think Pete Carroll wants to hit the ground running, get 9, 10, 8, 9, 10 wins and prove that the Raiders are like a legitimate organization, build an infrastructure and attract free agency and, and try and free agents and try to be like a real team again and like completely change the culture. The Jets, I think they could still bring somebody in while while Justin Fields is kind of a floater high Fitz.
- [10:09]
Bill Simmons
What's more realistic, the Raiders take Shader Sanders or the Raiders take Tyler Warren? So they could have taken a tight end in three straight years in the with a top pick in NFL draft.
- [10:20]
Craig Horlbeck
If you had to pick one, well, probably Tyler Warren. And then you trade back up into the first round. Get Colson Loveland from Michigan, get four first rounds, four tight ends.
- [10:28]
Bill Simmons
No one's ever done that a four tight end offense even possible. Is it like a four receiver? Could you just put all of them on the line?
- [10:33]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah. Make the whole thing out of Taysom Hills? I don't know. No, I agree though. I think the Raiders. I kind of thought Chedeur was going to go to the Raiders, but now that Geno Smith, I don't think Shedeur would go there.
- [10:42]
Bill Simmons
Danny Kelly, I have a counter for both of their takes. Tom Brady, on the record a lot with how we rush young quarterbacks, how these guys need time to stay there and learn how you want to integrate them. That's what happened to him with the Patriots. He had like a year plus where he didn't think he was going to play and it was so helpful to Him. If there's anybody who's going to talk themselves into. We already have Geno Smith, but let's also take Sanders six and put him in the Geno Smith Tom Brady QB camp, it would be the Raiders. I don't think it makes sense. I can't cross them off yet though, right?
- [11:16]
Danny Kelly
I think you're right. I think the Tom Brady element here is what makes me feel that it's more possible. I think if it was up to Carroll completely, which I don't know exactly how the decision making is being made in that building, to be honest, but if it was purely up to Carroll, I think everything we've seen on his record is let's build up the team, let's build up the franchise. Get good offensive linemen, get good weapons, and then you drop a quarterback into the system. That's exactly what he did and tried to do with Seattle, that he talked about it constantly. It's like the, the number one job of a GM and a coach is to make life easy on the quarterback. That is the number one priority. So drafting a rookie in the first year of your regime doesn't make sense to me. But if the, if the plan is to let him sit a year or two, you know, then it. Then you can. I think you can make that argument and maybe Tom Brady loves shitter enough to kind of step in and overrule, but I think right now it makes more sense for the Raiders to take like an offensive lineman or a defensive lineman, something to build up the trenches, you know, and get this team ready where you can drop a young quarterback in eventually like two years down the line.
- [12:16]
Bill Simmons
Well, the Patriots are screwed because at 4 we're all really hoping somebody trades up to 4 and they can move back and take a tackle. Jets aren't going to trade up. I don't think. Raiders aren't going to trade up. I don't think that leaves the Saints, who just seem like they're in hell. We'll talk about them later. High Fitz. My best chance for the Pats, for either Carter or Hunter to follow The Pats at 4 is if your Giants take Sanders at 3.
- [12:42]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah.
- [12:43]
Bill Simmons
To this point now it is 1113amp. They still have not signed Aaron Rodgers, but if they don't get Aaron Rodgers, the Sanders thing at three becomes a little more realistic, right?
- [12:54]
Craig Horlbeck
Definitely. I mean, to be clear, I don't think any of the quarterbacks in free agency are crossing off any of these teams for the draft because Rogers is like 41. Gino is. You know, we keep joking. He's either 34, almost 35, depending whether you like the deal or not. You know, Justin Fields, 20 million bucks. Darnold, I don't think any of these. I mean, Darnold's the only one that I think a team wouldn't take a quarterback if they still like the guy. But I agree. I think the Giants, with Shadur, they totally could do it. They're desperate. They need a quarterback. I also think the big thing with the Chadur in the draft is Deion. Deion is. I mean, it's not a conspiracy theory. He's out on the record saying he's going to do the Arch Manning thing. He's going to. I always get confused. Arch Archie, because the old one is the one that goes by Archie. But Archie Mannings just like he guided Eli to the Giants should. I mean, Shadow Sanders is not going to the Cleveland Browns. Deion's not letting him go to Cleveland. So I think the teams are basically the Giants. I think that. I mean, Shadur is obsessed with Tom Brady. That's the interesting part to me. Shedeur had an nil deal, I believe, with TB12. Like, Shadur mentioned Brady at his podium at the combine. Like four different questions. Tom Brady came up. They've known each other for years and so I wouldn't be shocked there. The Saints might just take a quarterback solely because they just don't have another path to replace Derek Carr if they don't. But I'm not really sure. I think Deion is like totally the X factor in this draft.
- [14:03]
Bill Simmons
So there's a chance. So the Giants could take him at 3. They could also trade back potentially because nobody else would take them and then the Saints would be the only other one that needs them. I have no idea if the Sanders family would even want to go there. But you know, he's not good. These quarterbacks are not good enough to go 1, 2. And you guys are doing a lot of the legwork on this. Craig, is there any scenario where the quarterbacks go 1, 2? Because last time I checked, Cleveland doesn't need a quarterback and just traded for one that we'll talk about in the next segment. Why wouldn't they just take Sanders if he was good enough?
- [14:39]
Danny Heifetz
I think there's always a chance that bad quarterbacks go way too soon in the draft. This is what's wrong with the draft process. It's too long. You end up talking yourself into this stuff. You get desperate. So the first three picks in the draft all need quarterbacks. The Titans, the Browns, and The Giants. I think I'd be surprised if two quarterbacks don't go in the first three picks.
- [14:55]
Bill Simmons
Wow. What do you think, Dana Kelly?
- [14:58]
Danny Kelly
I mean, I think, yeah, it would. The top three teams need quarterbacks. This is. You know, you traditionally see teams get a little bit desperate for the quarterback position. I think if in a vacuum, you probably wouldn't put Ward and Shadura as top three picks, you know, types of guys that you would give that type of grade to. But the NFL is desperate for quarterbacks. You need a. You need a quarterback. So I don't know if I would say I wouldn't be surprised if they go in the top three, but it. It wouldn't be shocking at the same time if they. If they both go top three.
- [15:27]
Bill Simmons
Heifitz, who's the most shocking person you could see actually going in the top four of this draft?
- [15:33]
Craig Horlbeck
I mean, I think Arman Member. I don't know if that's shocking or not, but I think that the Patriots. I mean, if the Patriots are sitting there and like, let's just say, good one. Travis Hunter and Abdul Carter are gone, then at this point, it's kind of like you're. They're going defensive line, offensive line, maybe. And I think the teams are going to have really different grades in this draft. I think that styles fits. This is a big draft. I think we're just. There's like a Rorschach test on a lot of players that think that it's kind of like, you know, beauties of the eye of the beholder. So I think that you're going to have a lot of different positional rankings around team to team on how they look at some of these pass rushers, the interior guys, the offensive linemen. So, I mean, a lot of teams might have very different offensive tackle stacks and different edge rusher stacks. So I wouldn't be shocked if the Patriots just go with, I don't know, Jalen Walker. So one of the Georgia guys. We don't know which guys, you know, Mike Vrabel's gonna prefer, so it might be, like, really surprising. Top five.
- [16:21]
Bill Simmons
Membo could be the fast riser guy.
- [16:25]
Danny Kelly
Yeah.
- [16:25]
Bill Simmons
Cause I know. Craig, did you. Did you mention. Did you measure your arm length? Is it over 33 inches? Like, could. Do you think you could block. Could you block an edge rusher? Because you got to get to 33 plus inches. Apparently. Will Campbell's only at 32.
- [16:41]
Danny Heifetz
How does that translate to height? I. I actually have kind of long. I'm like a 65 wingspan. So you could probably plug me into an offensive line. I might.
- [16:48]
Bill Simmons
You just need to get your hands far enough out to shove the guy back. And apparently, Will Campbell. That extra half inch.
- [16:54]
Danny Heifetz
Yep.
- [16:55]
Bill Simmons
There's no way we could take him forward. I've said this before.
- [16:58]
Danny Heifetz
It matters a lot to some people.
- [16:59]
Craig Horlbeck
The Pat is not everything. Correct.
- [17:02]
Bill Simmons
The Pats cannot take Will Campbell fourth when we're not positive if he's a guard or a tackle. I've said that already. I just feel like if there's any doubt whatsoever, like, at that point, just take Membo. Cause everyone's like, he's definitely left tackle. We don't know how good he is. But I've been thinking about this a lot. I'm on a lot of threads. I like what the Pats did. We'll talk about that later. But the one mistake you can make, I think, is when you're drafting this high, to take somebody just out of need. I have never seen that really work. Right. Danny Kelly, how many drafts have you covered for us at this point? Has the, ah, this is too high, but we really need this guy. I just don't remember that ever really working.
- [17:39]
Danny Kelly
Yeah, it's. It's desperation. It. It just doesn't work in the draft. I think you just take a good player, Take a player that you know is going. And this is what the Eagles do every year, and this is the reason we always give the Eagles good grades in these draft grades, is that they just end up taking good players regardless of where, you know, where they're needed or where their need is. Like, they keep taking defensive linemen even though they have one of the best D lines in the NFL. They keep building on a strength build in the trenches, take premium positions. It just makes sense. And I think especially in a draft like this, where the tackle class is really deep, you could get a good tackle in the second round. In theory, yeah, you can get a defensive tackle in the second round. You don't have to take Mason Graham in the first round necessarily. Even though I think those guys are really good. I think Will Campbell's really good. I think Mason Graham's really good. I think this is exactly the type of draft where you don't have to take for need. You can just take what player you think is the best player.
- [18:30]
Bill Simmons
Craig Kuzier. I wouldn't be shocked if they went in the top four guy, because mine is the tight end.
- [18:35]
Danny Heifetz
Oh, Tyler.
- [18:36]
Bill Simmons
I think Tyler Warren. Yeah. I just really. I think between four and nine, all of those guys are right around the same if you don't need Travis Hunter, which I don't know if the Pats do because they just spent on a quarterback, but I just feel like you could talk yourself into the running back or the tight end pretty easily and you could talk yourself into middle and you could talk yourself into the edge rusher from Georgia. It kind of depends.
- [19:00]
Danny Kelly
From Texas A and M. He's another guy.
- [19:02]
Bill Simmons
Craig, do you have. Who's your. Who's your sleeper?
- [19:05]
Danny Heifetz
I don't really know if it's a sleeper. And look, I'm not going to pretend like I'm super dialed in on the offensive tackle situation in the draft this year, but the guy who I think could go top four maybe for a slight trade up, I just think there's a lot of teams in the top 10 who need wide receivers. I think Ted McMillan out of Arizona is awesome and really underrated. And I think because it's a weak wide receiver class, he's at number one and I think people kind of undersell him a little bit because the rest of the class is weak. So it's hard to determine how good he is, but I really think he is one of the better wide receivers we've seen in the last five years. The Pats need a wide receiver. The Jags need a wide receiver. The Raiders need a wide receiver. The Panthers need a wide receiver. All these teams are top 10 and I think all of them could make a move to get Tet.
- [19:48]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. Sometimes worries me when there's only one really good guy at a position because by comparison to the other guys, you can almost overrate them. Right? It's like, I don't know, going to a bar and there's one good looking person in the bar and like, man, yeah, that guy's so handsome. And it's like, is he. That. That girl is so incredible.
- [20:08]
Danny Heifetz
A Missouri 10, but an LA.
- [20:11]
Bill Simmons
That's the only part that worries me with that. I do wonder with the Penn State tight end, though, with everybody so worried about offensive lines, how can we block? Hey, like, that guy is an old school. I can block, I can catch. And like, even for the Pats, if you just add him and it's like this will be Drake May's number one move the chain guy. This guy will help us with the black. We'll figure out the left tackle, but at least we have like, I don't know if you take him at 4, but you could talk me into.
- [20:39]
Danny Kelly
All right.
- [20:39]
Craig Horlbeck
I think that's a huge mistake at four. Yeah, it's a huge mistake that's a massive mistake.
- [20:44]
Bill Simmons
No, I'm prepared for anything.
- [20:47]
Craig Horlbeck
It's scarcity, though. It's like there's so it's such a deep tight end draft. It's similar to Ashton Gentian running back I think Ashton Genti is a better running back prospect than Tyler Warren is at tight end. But the way I look at it is as the team, as a Giants fan, they took SAQUON Barkley number two. They could have had like Nick Chubb with the 35th pick. As you notice, Saquon didn't help the Giants, did he? And I look at it as why would you want Ashton Genti with a top 10 pick when you could get all these other running backs maybe in the third, maybe the fourth round, there's so many available, there are so many tight ends that could help you in the third round. Whereas this is.
- [21:14]
Bill Simmons
Unless you thought this guy is awesome, that's it. That would be the thing. If you think he's a top three guy at the position for the next 10 years, I think you have to think of it differently.
- [21:22]
Craig Horlbeck
Give the Brock Bowers tackles and defensive ends where you can't get those.
- [21:27]
Bill Simmons
I wouldn't do it. I'm just prepared for it.
- [21:28]
Danny Heifetz
It does feel like we're obsessed with saying that a new tight end is generational every year. It was like Kyle Pants, we had Brock Bowers. You never know if it's going to work.
- [21:35]
Bill Simmons
I think you guys should do this with your podcast. Talk about it's like a generational fantasy football podcast. See, when the word generational is used, people just pay attention more. Dk, do you buy the whole Gente is on par with Bijan and Saquon for running backs in like the last 12 years. As like that caliber prospect.
- [21:55]
Danny Kelly
I put him one tier below that. I think. I think he's really good. He breaks a ton of tackles. In fact, I think he broke PFF's record for broken tackles in his season last year. So he's obviously, you know, gyroscopic balance, breaks a ton of tackles. He's really slippery. He has some explosiveness to him. I just don't think I put him quite on the level of like the Saquon Bijan, you know, Adrian Peterson tier.
- [22:15]
Bill Simmons
Where this is a set last 20 years.
- [22:17]
Danny Kelly
This is actual a generational pick. You know what I mean? I think he is one, one slight tier down and that's not a knock on him. I think he's really good, but I don't think I'm quite ready to put.
- [22:26]
Bill Simmons
Him in that tier well, for the Pats, I hope it's Carter or Hunter. And if it's not that, it's a trade down. We're going to take a break and we'll be back with the generation of fantasy football guys from the ringer right after this. This episode is brought to you by vrbo Private Vacation Rentals. With vrbo, you always get the whole house so you and your fellow fans can cheer on your team in peace. What's worse than watching a game with somebody who's not rooting for the same team? You're rooting for nothing. But that's why if you book a vacation house with vrbo, you know all the people in your house, they'll be friends, they'll be family. Ideally, they'll be the ones who also root for my teams. Plan a winning vacation. Make it a vrbo. This episode is brought to you by the Wells Fargo Active Cash Credit Card. This is an ad for the Active Cash credit card from Wells Fargo. That's a mouthful, but that's because it packs a lot in. Earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases with it, big or small. So whether it's buying tickets to the game with your mom or grabbing a coffee with your dog, earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases made with it. Say it with me. The Active cash credit card from Wells Fargo. Learn more@wells Fargo.com ActiveCash terms apply. All right, we are going to rip through the first couple days of free agency. I did a gimmick. It's a gimmick I used to do way back when. You guys have done it on your podcast. I didn't tell you what it was, trying to just blindside you giving out awards. But the awards are all from the glory years of comedy as Craig Korlbeck has anointed the 2000s right up to. This is take me back. Just all of the movies from there, I'm just giving out awards. I wrote some down. Maybe you'll even come up with a couple as we're talking. The first award is the Seth Rogen Katherine Heigl knocked up award for We've known each other for a week. Let's do this. That goes to the Seattle Seahawks, Danny Kelly's favorite team. They traded Geno and they traded DK Metcalf for a third to second. And then they said, we're all in. We're ignoring the last two weeks of the season. They didn't happen. Sam Darnold. Three years, 110 million. Let's do this. Let's get married. Danny Kelly, walk us. I know you did this on your pod yesterday, but walk my audience through this.
- [24:44]
Danny Kelly
What could go wrong? So here's the deal. Sam Darnold, I don't think he's as good as Geno Smith. However, he is 27 years old. He's quite a bit younger. He's probably going to be cheaper, I think, at the end of the day. And there is this theory or scenario where he could turn out to be a longer term solution for the Seahawks at quarterback right now. This contract is actually very middling. It's a middle class contract. They can get out of it if they really had to after a year, probably. Even though they.
- [25:11]
Bill Simmons
It's the Mayfield contract. Right, right. Basically the same thing.
- [25:14]
Danny Kelly
They're hoping that he can turn into a long term solution for them at the quarterback position. Whereas I don't think Gina was. They don't really consider him that. I think, you know, and I said this to hyphens yesterday, it's like teams tell you what they think of players with their actions. Seahawks clearly didn't believe Geno was a long term answer for them and so they got out while they. They could and, you know, they get a new guy in here. I think there's also the element of putting the Pete Carroll era to rest for good. DK Metcalf, Geno Smith, obviously, two guys that were really close to Pete Carroll. And now this is like fully a new era in Seahawks football.
- [25:51]
Bill Simmons
Certainly a new era. You're right on that.
- [25:54]
Danny Kelly
Yeah. So I would say, like, I'm not super, super optimistic about it. I would hope I could see the logic or the rationale for doing it. But I think with the Seahawks lack of. Now they have no weapons at receiver with just jsn.
- [26:10]
Bill Simmons
Just JSN getting double teamed.
- [26:11]
Danny Kelly
Yeah, jsn. And then if you can name the second best receiver on the Seahawks right now, like, I'll give you 10 points. But it's like Jake Bobo or who I don't even know.
- [26:21]
Bill Simmons
Oh, God.
- [26:22]
Danny Kelly
Yeah.
- [26:23]
Danny Heifetz
They need like a, like a big guy who's fast, who can go deep.
- [26:27]
Danny Kelly
Kind of scrub the field, who could tilt the field.
- [26:29]
Craig Horlbeck
Where's a visor.
- [26:30]
Bill Simmons
A field tilter who's kind of in.
- [26:32]
Danny Heifetz
His prime with an initial.
- [26:34]
Bill Simmons
Initial acronym as a first name.
- [26:36]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah. Yeah.
- [26:38]
Danny Kelly
That's an acronym I really like personally.
- [26:40]
Bill Simmons
Is there a possibility of Stefan Diggs coming off another injury? Just being surly about Sam Darnold being his quarterback? But you're paying him 17 million a year. Is that in play or no?
- [26:50]
Danny Kelly
Possibly. I believe him and Clint Kubiak have overlapped at one point in time, which so probably not. But coming off. Coming off of an injury, also, the, you know, the baggage that I think he would bring, I would hope that wouldn't be their solution. I don't know. DeAndre Hopkins, maybe. I think he's still a free agent.
- [27:07]
Bill Simmons
Danny, cover it.
- [27:08]
Danny Kelly
Cover your ears.
- [27:09]
Danny Heifetz
It's bleak.
- [27:09]
Danny Kelly
It's bleak.
- [27:10]
Bill Simmons
Cover your must. Yeah, don't even listen to this part. Danny. Other Danny and Craig. I kind of like Geno Smith. I thought he was running for his life. The last two years. They couldn't block for him at all. He was good at the end of games. He wasn't great, but he was good. And I get that he's 34 years old, but I don't know. This just feels like moving chairs around on a boat that's sinking. What was your take, Craig?
- [27:37]
Danny Heifetz
I think Kevin O'Connell is too good of a quarterbacks coach. Where. I don't think I would ever take a quarterback from the Vikings because the situation is so perfect. The offensive line, the weapons. Kevin O'Connell turned Josh Dobbs into a Hall of Famer for a month. Going to Seattle with very minimal weapons in a terrible offensive line. Bill Barnwell wrote that the Seahawks have spent the least amount of money on their offensive line in the league right now. 20, 25. This sounds like a disaster. The interior offensive line is getting blown up in front of Geno Smith's face every game. And now we're expecting Sam Darnold to deal with that. I wouldn't look.
- [28:13]
Bill Simmons
It's like he's on the jets again.
- [28:15]
Danny Heifetz
It's like he's a little bit.
- [28:16]
Danny Kelly
Oh, no.
- [28:17]
Danny Heifetz
A little bit.
- [28:18]
Bill Simmons
Sorry, Danny.
- [28:20]
Danny Heifetz
Danny, you can remove your ears now.
- [28:22]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, take your earmuffs off. Hi, Fitz. What do you got?
- [28:25]
Craig Horlbeck
I just. I look at the Darnold thing I reminds me of. I remember when I was a kid, there were all these, like, toy commercials, and they would, like, have these trucks and planes and they all look so sick in the commercial. Like, oh, my God, there's, like dirt everywhere. And then, like, the toy would come and I'd open and be like, this isn't really as cool as it was in the commercial. And I think that's kind of how the Sam Darnold experience is going to go in Seattle. I think he's probably the new version of exactly what your surroundings are. He's a reflection of the coaching and surrounding talent. The Vikings had Justin Jefferson, who's the best receiver in the league. Jordan Addison is a first round pick TJ Hawkinson who recovered from injury but he's a first round tight end. Kevin O'Connell a top five play caller quarterback who were in the NFL and a solid offensive line ish average, slightly below average scheme made offensive line better in Minnesota Seahawks have they're a draft and developed team that cannot develop offensive linemen which is kind of their whole problem. So you have one of the worst offensive lines in the league. Jackson Smith and Jigba I feel like is going to be like the Chris Olave for Clint Kubiak. And then again as DK said, nobody at receivers. So I think Sam Darnold will probably reflect how the Seahawks are just a worse version of Minnesota. Like they're not as good. And so I look at this as the money is fine, the money is actually very reasonable contract. But overall I just look at this as I think it's a mix of you wanted to get younger, which is weird because Geno Smith's the youngest 34 year old in the NFL. And Sam, it's like one of those.
- [29:37]
Bill Simmons
Boxers that was in jail for 10 years or exactly 38, but he's the heavyweight champ now.
- [29:42]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, Sam Donald's played more games last 10 years than Gino has. So Sam Donald's 27, but this is his 15. So he's the oldest 27 year old. So it's kind of weird. But overall I just look at it as they probably got worse. And there's a vision here, but the reality is this is a huge risk. And also I just think there's a defensive coach element here of just sometimes when Gino throws so many picks, it's kind of like you want that to be on the coach's terms sometimes. And, and I just, I don't know, sometimes I wonder if they just want someone who'll just listen to what you're going to tell them to do.
- [30:07]
Danny Heifetz
On paper.
- [30:09]
Bill Simmons
On paper, getting seven years younger, getting a third round pick and seemingly going sideways at quarterback is a strategy that makes sense. But I thought, I just thought Gino was in a really hard situation. Last year I was shocked to find out Gino was 34. I somehow didn't realize he was that old. And it sent me on a Geno deep dive that led me to the ESPN piece about when his teammate punched him in 2015. Oh, and I read, I read like four stories about that and I was like, this is how has this not been an untold episode yet?
- [30:41]
Danny Kelly
So quick, quick question. Does the what you just said though, about How Tom Brady kind of changed everything about what we should expect from older quarterbacks. Does that not apply to Geno because of basically he took six or seven years of backup and he didn't really take any hits or whatever. Or is this or possible. You know, should we pay attention to this?
- [31:01]
Bill Simmons
I mean for Vegas, he's got Bowers who's got one of the best weapons in the league. I assume they'll have like that. They'll probably have a couple signings coming. I would guess he's going to be in some fun games. New scene, new scenario. I'm happy for him. I didn't really like what the Seahawks did. Dk. I'm sorry.
- [31:21]
Danny Kelly
That's okay.
- [31:22]
Bill Simmons
The next one. Next award normal. It's the Brick Tamlin Kill the guy award for the seemingly okay situation that got completely out of hand way too fast. And that would be the left tackle drought. This hit the point, Craig. You rooted for Dan Moore as your left tackle for years. My God, was there ever a world in any game where you're like this guy. I bet he's going to make $20 million a year next year because it happened.
- [31:49]
Danny Heifetz
He got $50 million guaranteed by the Titans. Dan Moore, four years, 82 million. 50 million guaranteed. The Steelers offensive line has been bad for as long as I can remember. And it was your biggest weakness. It's. And Dan Moore was never a sight for sore eyes on that offensive line. I'm happy to see him go. I offered to fly him to Tennessee.
- [32:12]
Bill Simmons
So we have him. We have Jayla Moore wasn't even a starter to KC for 2 for 30.
- [32:17]
Danny Heifetz
Yep.
- [32:17]
Bill Simmons
The Ravens resigned Ronnie Stanley for 60 million. A guy I wanted for the Pats. And then I texted with Mallory Ravens fan and she's like, I didn't want us to keep him. He gets hurt all the time. Too many false starts. So congrats to them. Alec Johnson on the Rams for 3 for 58. Actually seems like one of the best deals anyone got. And then Washington trades a second for Tunsil, which was shocking on paper. And then I think everyone kind of realized the Texans weren't exactly like the the hogs in the 80s. And now we have this draft coming where Will Campbell and Membo and Banks might all go five to six spots too high because we still have what, six, seven teams that still don't have a left tackle. Not to mention Trent Williams of the Niners who could retire like tomorrow and nobody would be surprised. And Armstead and the on Miami like God only knows what happens to him year to year.
- [33:12]
Danny Heifetz
What about you? How are you feeling about your new 34 year old tackle?
- [33:15]
Bill Simmons
We, he's not even a left tackle, he's a right tackle. We still don't have a left tackle. Dk. What, what happened here? Why are we out of left tackles? Why is this such a drop?
- [33:24]
Danny Kelly
I mean, I think it, this is kind of becoming a cliche at this point, but it's just all about like the lack of development in college football of offensive linemen. The schemes are wide open. This, they play wider splits. They don't actually do like the real type of pass blocking that you see in the NFL or run blocking in the sea in the NFL. I think just, it's, it's a, there's a, you know, lack of development coming up from college game to the pros and you see these teams have to develop guys. Um, you're basically now just taking good athletes and hoping that they can, you can teach them to block in a lot of cases. Not, not always, but in a lot.
- [33:59]
Bill Simmons
Of Jordan Malada strategy.
- [34:00]
Danny Kelly
Right. And I mean, you know, in this class in particular, and you've mentioned this, but a lot of the top tackles in this class are maybe guards, you know what I mean? They're either not quite long enough arm length or, you know, maybe not quite enough foot speed or whatever. Playing left tackle in the NFL, playing right tackle either side now there's so many good pass rushers. The best athletes on the NFL field are pass rushers. And it's an extremely, extremely difficult job to be a left tackle, so. Or to be a right tackle. So I think it's just a, it's a development issue. It's a issue where all the best athletes are going to the defensive line instead of the offensive line. And I think, you know, the best teams in the NFL, the teams with the best offensive lines are putting a ton of resources into it, a ton of money and have really good coaching at those positions. Like the offensive line coaches is a huge like competitive advantage right now in the NFL? I think so. It's just, it's a number of variables.
- [34:56]
Bill Simmons
Would you say it's the second most important position now behind quarterback? Because how scarce it is. Would you put it over every other position?
- [35:04]
Danny Kelly
I think so, yeah.
- [35:05]
Bill Simmons
Would you high Fitz?
- [35:06]
Craig Horlbeck
I would. I mean if you look at the demand, I mean, I know they're not paying left tackles as much as defensive ends, but I mean, I think it is. I mean you look at the Eagles, I mean overall we make fun of Nick Sirianni, Jeff Stoutland, who's the offensive line run game coordinator. There is. I mean if he disappeared, I think the whole thing he's the MVP of the team because you look and they're like Jordan my lot. I'd never played football. He's like a top five right tackle. You take Makai Becton. The jets couldn't do anything with him. He starts for the on the offensive line today they Eagles traded for Kenyon Green, the Texans guard who's a first round pick who's been unplayable for them. Guess what? The Eagles are going to fix him. And so what you have is to your point about the offensive line thing, we've gone from this program era football to playbooks. It's like they used to Brady's talked about this like Michigan was a program. You'd be with your NFL team as a program and now it's playbooks. All these kids, high school, college, everything's different. The game's more spread out as DK said. But also you're not teaching as many fundamentals. The game itself has changed. You get to the NFL, they're half as prepared and you get half the time used to practice with. So they're just not developing it. So the handful of remaining coaches who can develop the skills, overwhelming advantage to those teams. That's one of the secret reasons the Eagles have been so good is there just become an offensive line factory because one of the few teams who can coach guys up so now left tackles. There's so much demand. They're like egg prices. You're looking. You're like $9 for eggs. I'm like 20. Dan Moore Jr. Is getting more money than Lane Johnson.
- [36:18]
Bill Simmons
This is why the Pats are going to take Bimbo Craig, are you an Anchorman 1 fight guy or an Anchorman 2 fight guy?
- [36:25]
Danny Heifetz
I think. I think I'm an Anchorman 1 guy in every respect over Anchorman 2.
- [36:29]
Bill Simmons
Every respect.
- [36:31]
Danny Heifetz
I think that's fair to say. Yeah.
- [36:33]
Craig Horlbeck
Here's my issue. Anchorman 2. Is that the one where the he had the shark in the lighthouse scene?
- [36:38]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah.
- [36:39]
Craig Horlbeck
What I didn't like is that scene where he's pretending Dobie. That's the same scene as Talladega Nights where he has the state the knife in his leg. It's just the same scene, but there's.
- [36:48]
Bill Simmons
A shark instead of.
- [36:49]
Danny Heifetz
I haven't seen Anchorman 2 since it came out. I saw it and I let it. I let it sit there on the show.
- [36:54]
Craig Horlbeck
Jackson's good.
- [36:56]
Bill Simmons
I genuinely think they made Anchorman 2 as a movie that people Wouldn't think was good for 15 years and would have this belated. You know, it's actually really awesome. Anchorman 2, I think we're right heading into the zone right now where it's going to come back and become a thing.
- [37:12]
Craig Horlbeck
They should have made the original pitch for Anchorman. Wasn't it just. The original pitch was just a plane crash in a mountain. And the plane just had, like scorpions and like throwing knives. They should have just made that the second movie.
- [37:25]
Bill Simmons
Still haven't done Anchorman on the rewatchables. Craig doesn't want to do it. Oh, here's one for you, Craig. The Dracula the music award for I can't believe this actually worked out. Dracula the musical.
- [37:40]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah.
- [37:41]
Bill Simmons
There's no way that should have been a good scene. And it turns out to be one of the best, funniest scenes of the movie. The odds were like 200 to 1. I feel like the Patriots free agency has worked out. I can't believe it. We had all this money to spend. We have a cheap owner. They were saying how free agency wasn't that good. I get it. We overspent a tiny bit on Milton Williams. I love Spillane. He was one of my favorite non Patriots on Sunday ticket every Sunday. The guy's just an absolute animal. Enjoyed. Matt Collins.
- [38:08]
Danny Heifetz
Oh, yeah, Matt Collins.
- [38:09]
Bill Simmons
I do locker room. Matt Collins. Josh Dobbs. We're trying to get locker room guys. We're trying to win our locker room. But Jamal Williams on the Saints who just got waived. Let's bring him in too. Let's get locker room guys.
- [38:20]
Danny Heifetz
Matt Collins. You save money on shoes. Cause he doesn't wear them. So that's nice.
- [38:23]
Danny Kelly
There you go.
- [38:24]
Bill Simmons
Right? Sounds great.
- [38:25]
Craig Horlbeck
Craft a long way.
- [38:25]
Bill Simmons
Anyway, I am genuinely excited for the pat's defense. Craig, talk me out of it.
- [38:30]
Danny Kelly
Craig, do the bar more.
- [38:31]
Bill Simmons
Coming back. Kyle Duggar, healthy. He's got to do the sponsors, Gonzalez and Davis. Wow, you can zag on this. Go ahead.
- [38:38]
Danny Heifetz
It's getting kind of hard to believe things are going to get better. No, I can't tell.
- [38:44]
Bill Simmons
Dracula musical.
- [38:46]
Danny Heifetz
Dracula. I could do something else. No, look, I think you've. You've. I don't know if it's just me reading your tweets or what, but I do think that what the Patriots have done is rock solid. It's not sexy, it's not flashy, but they've brought in a lot of guys that feel like variable guys. Some of them have history with variable. Carlton Davis, cornerback, great pick. Harold Landry, Robert Spillane, Morgan Moses. Milton Williams.
- [39:10]
Bill Simmons
Spillane's like an old school 2003 Pats guy. Like, I could have totally seen him next to McGinnis and Brable.
- [39:16]
Danny Heifetz
We always talk on our show. We always talk about culture and how that's the most important thing. And if you build that first, everything else follows. And it does feel like, I mean, the Patriots did not have a culture last year. I don't have to tell you that. And Vrabel is bringing in guys who build a culture. So even though no one here is super flashy and my dad's not going to text me about any of these signings, it makes a lot of sense and it's very. It's rock solid.
- [39:39]
Bill Simmons
Dk, when do we get the text from Mina in like June or July that she studied all the defenses and thinks the Pats can have a top five defense? Like June 20th. When is that?
- [39:48]
Danny Kelly
Yeah, something right around there. The thing I like about the Pats, what they've done in free agency is it's kind of like the perfect example of what teams should do in free agency, which is you're hedging against what you're going to potentially have to do in the draft. So the Pats can go any direction now with their pick in the first round and all their picks, really, because they, they address the interior defensive line. You know, they added linebacker, they added a starting corner, they added a right tackle. I think the one thing they still really need is a receiver.
- [40:18]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. Game breaking. A guy who could make a big play every once in a while, but.
- [40:22]
Danny Kelly
They don't have to take that with, you know, their first round. Or they could. Usually they could. They could go for a second round guy, and I think he could still be a contributor. That's the kind of class this is. So they've, they've hedged, so they're not being. They're not being painted into a corner at any one position. Like we said just before, you know, having to be desperate at any position is just. It's a bad play to make. So that's. That's the one. Really, I think just smart thing that they've done in free agency is they've addressed basically all their big needs other than receivers so far.
- [40:48]
Bill Simmons
I. Fitz, like, we've been aligned for the entire 2000s with our two dumb franchises and just doing dumb shit and spending money on the wrong guys and picking the wrong players and just the overall sense of there's no plan at all. You're still in that. You're still mired in that Hell, and maybe this won't work out. But I actually like that there seems to be a plan for the Patriots where they're like, let's build through the lines. Let's get culture guys. Let's get guys who, if you go to the Reddits of each team that lost, the guy, like, I went to the Raiders Reddit, 110 posts about Spillane.
- [41:23]
Danny Kelly
Yeah.
- [41:24]
Bill Simmons
People were like, oh, man, I'm happy our guy got a bag. But it really bums me out. I was like, okay, this is great. The Harold Landry Titans Reddit wasn't awesome. That was the one where that might have been an overpay. But I also think that's Rabel's guy, but typhed. Do you at least feel like there's a plan here?
- [41:42]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, there's a plan. They're like everyone else. Honestly, Bill, I'm stunned by this. I feel like I, I, I, I, you, Victory lapping, winning free agency, the final death throw of of the Patriots dynasty. Like, I cannot believe. Literally, Literally. Belichick used to laugh at the teams that would spend all this money on day one. He would be in Cape Cod. He wouldn't be at the facility on the first day of the free agency.
- [42:03]
Bill Simmons
Right.
- [42:03]
Craig Horlbeck
And honestly, it actually, I, I, I actually felt a little bad for the Patriots that you were so excited about. I didn't realize how bad it was. She was.
- [42:11]
Bill Simmons
I just feel like there's anger.
- [42:13]
Craig Horlbeck
No, I think that, look, generally speaking, these kind of handing out all this money doesn't work. Generally speaking. Like, again, most free agency is just a collection of players that teams saw these guys day in, day out for five years, and we're like, I'm good. You can leave. And so you got to find the gems. I will say I do. Like, when teams do what Vrabel did, where you're like, vrabel is a culture coach, and when a culture coach has a right to bring in his guys. So Harold Landry not been the same since the acl, but that's a Titans guy. Robert Spain started for the Titans. Robert Spain's the ultimate. Like, if he wins the Raiders game, he's every. Any game Robert Spain plays, you're like, damn, he's everywhere.
- [42:47]
Bill Simmons
Spain is like the guy in the program who just was out of control and then it turned out. But I'm not saying he did that, but it was just like, he's everywhere. And you're like, oh, my God, this guy's a maniac. Yeah, that's what he was like all last year.
- [42:59]
Craig Horlbeck
And Carlton. I actually think Carlton Davis is great. I mean, he broke his jaw. But I think honestly, what Carlton Davis does. She has cornerback. He was in the Bucks for a long time and then the Lions. Carlton had him. Yes.
- [43:09]
Bill Simmons
So they. I mean. Cause he was on the Lions last year. That was one of the things that seems like they were grabbing a lot of dudes that they had a history with, which made me feel better.
- [43:18]
Craig Horlbeck
That's usually how it goes. I think the Davis thing's huge because you can play man coverage now. Very few teams have the cornerbacks to play man coverage. I think that flexibility is awesome. I think the cult. You're overpaying for culture, frankly. I think that having all this money reflects how little players you've drafted recently worthy of extending. Milton Williams.
- [43:33]
Bill Simmons
Yes.
- [43:34]
Craig Horlbeck
Milton Williams, 26 million a year. He played 25 snaps in the Super Bowl. He gave him 26 million bucks. He's a rotational player. I don't think he's being paired with Christian Barmore. If anything, I think Christian Barmore, the blood clots. I don't know what's happening with his career. Like, if anything, I think that that might kind of come out after the draft. I don't know what's going on there. Overall, I think it's okay to just pay a ton of money to bootstrap yourself back to being competitive, which is what I think this is. But also rarely does it work where you're spending all this money in free agency and everything's fixed. But honestly, the Patriots roster was so barren that they do need to just do something. But overall, you kind of look at these deals in two years and suddenly two years later you're like, oh, well, if we cut Milton Williams, we could save like $16 million. That's generally how it goes.
- [44:13]
Danny Kelly
You, you say you're. That Belichick would be laughing and not even be paying attention. But it's Belichick's fault that the Patriots roster is in this position. If you look at Bill you sent me, I think just screenshots of their drafts.
- [44:26]
Bill Simmons
I sent you like four drafts in a row.
- [44:28]
Danny Kelly
2017-2018-2019-2020, even 2016, there's not.
- [44:34]
Bill Simmons
Don't forget about trading back out of the Trent McDuffie spot and then taking Cole Strange right in front of Carloftis the all time double win.
- [44:43]
Danny Kelly
Did you trade out of the lad McConkey spot too?
- [44:45]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, we did that last year. Yeah.
- [44:47]
Craig Horlbeck
The cornerback the Chargers got had more catches than the receiver the. The Patriots got a summary of the deal.
- [44:52]
Danny Kelly
My point Is basically, look, if you. There, there are. You know, it takes a little bit for it to really show up and make an impact. But if you miss on a draft bus or if you miss on two or three draft classes, you missed on.
- [45:03]
Bill Simmons
Two in a row, it's death.
- [45:05]
Danny Kelly
It's, you know, a couple of years later, your roster looks really bleak. And then you have to spend in free agency to just fill holes because those are the types of guys that are supposed to come in and play role playing positions, you know, be average starters at the very least. And if you get zero of those guys in draft, or if you get zero of those guys in two or three drafts, your roster is bad after a couple years. So that's exactly what happened here.
- [45:30]
Bill Simmons
Craig, if they take Hunter 4 and say he's going to be our number one receiver, but we're also going to use him as a nickelback, is that one of the most exciting developments of the season? Because it would be for me.
- [45:42]
Danny Heifetz
I understand that it would be for you. I don't know if it would be for me the most exciting. But Heifetz has convinced me on Travis Hunter that wherever he goes, it will be incredibly exciting. I think I was a little bit lukewarm on him, but I've come around now that maybe the guy who played two positions in college, and nobody said he could do that, maybe he can just continue doing that in the pros.
- [46:00]
Bill Simmons
Maybe he could just be awesome as a pro. Can you do a little more Dracula the Musical before we move on?
- [46:06]
Danny Heifetz
And if I see Van Helsing, I swear I will slay him.
- [46:11]
Bill Simmons
All right, next one. The Borat stays at an old Jewish couple's bed and breakfast award for. Oh, I have a bad feeling about this one. That goes to the jets and Justin Fields. Two years, 40 million. We've all kind of glossed over this. And I gotta say, I've heard some takes about he was doing well with the Steelers before they put in Russ. It's like, no, he wasn't. No, he wasn't. Craig, you were. You're a Steelers fan. You were watching those games. Did Justin Fields ever at any point make you feel like we've got our guy?
- [46:42]
Danny Heifetz
No.
- [46:42]
Bill Simmons
Lock them down.
- [46:43]
Danny Heifetz
Of course not.
- [46:44]
Bill Simmons
We watched those games. It was like the whole reason Russell Wilson got the job is because Fields wasn't quite good enough as a starter.
- [46:51]
Danny Heifetz
There are certain guys with a rushing floor but such a limited ceiling where you're so trapped in mediocrity, where Justin Fields is just fine enough that if the rest of the team is okay. You can win seven, eight games, which is probably what the Steelers would have done had he stayed the starter. But the Jets. Heifetz went on a whole rant. I should just have him do it again. About.
- [47:11]
Bill Simmons
Do it again.
- [47:12]
Danny Heifetz
Justin Fields, the most Jetsy quarterback ever.
- [47:15]
Bill Simmons
Go ahead.
- [47:16]
Craig Horlbeck
He's, I mean, Justin Fields was born to be a New York Jet. He's been practicing for this his entire life. He was bathed in the light of the New York Jets. I cannot think of a more Jetsy Jet that hasn't been a Jet yet. It reminds me critical factors to being a Jet. Slightly famous enough that people know your name. Exciting enough that when fans pull up your highlight reel, they're going to talk themselves into it and going to have moments where there's a Jets fans who don't want to be in are going to get reeled in. However, you also have to be bad enough where, you know, start to finish the entire time. It has no chance of working. And that is Justin Fields to a, to a t. That was Le'Veon Bell. I mean, that was like Braylon Edwards. There were all these jets free agents in the past that you're like, there was no chance this was ever going to work. And you feel stupid forever talking yourself into it. But they did talk you into it. Justin Fields is like the epitome of it. And I, I, I can't believe I didn't see this coming in advance, because Justin Fields, he was honestly born for this.
- [48:08]
Bill Simmons
Neil O'Donnell was another great one way back when the. You left that one thing with your jets blueprint, which I agreed with. I thought you did a great job. Like around week six, when it starts getting sad and they come back from commercial and it's like Chiefs 34, Jets 3. And they're just showing a sad guy in the stands with a Fields jersey on. That's the last piece of it because the jets fans will buy in and they will buy the jersey. And then around week six, week eight, it's sad. I just, I don't think he's a starting quarterback in the sense of you can actually win playoff games with them. Dk, you, you agree with that, right?
- [48:45]
Danny Kelly
I mean, yeah, I, I was one of Justin Fields biggest believers.
- [48:48]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [48:48]
Danny Kelly
Coming out of the draft, I loved him. I just think he, he, he doesn't, he just holds onto the ball too damn long.
- [48:54]
Bill Simmons
Like it is a, it is the.
- [48:56]
Danny Kelly
Fate, it is the fatal flaw.
- [48:58]
Danny Heifetz
He will get a great win there. That's one other aspect of a Jets quarterback. Much like Zach Wilson, like Zach Wilson beat the Chiefs one game. Justin Fields will beat the Bills in, like, week six. And everybody will love it. And then that'll be the only thing they can talk about for the next eight weeks when they go 1 and 7.
- [49:15]
Craig Horlbeck
The problem is you never know. I mean, Baker, Bryce. Last year, Bryce Young outplayed C.J. stroud. If I had told you that at the end of September, you would have laughed me out of the room if you would thought that's how the rest of the year would go. Like, you never know.
- [49:26]
Danny Kelly
But he's going to be more exciting than Aaron Rodgers on the field, though.
- [49:32]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah.
- [49:32]
Danny Kelly
So there's. So there's that.
- [49:34]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah.
- [49:35]
Bill Simmons
And I think the fans will want him to succeed. All right, we're taking a break, and I got more awards. This episode is brought to you by the new MGM plus original series, Nine Bodies in a Mexican Morgue. All right, here's one for the mystery fans. There are 10 passports, nine bodies, and one deadly secret. That's the setup for Nine Bodies in a Mexican Morgue, the new MGM plus original series that'll keep you guessing till the very end. A plane crashes deep in the jungle. Nine passengers survive until they don't. One by one, the survivors start dying in brutal, mysterious ways. Now they're not just fighting the elements. They're fighting to stay alive. Starring Emmy award winner Eric McCormick, this gripping thriller will have you second guessing everything. Watch Nine Bodies in a Mexican Morgue. Streaming now on MGM with new episodes Sundays. By the way, great movies on MGM. This episode is brought to you by Intuit TurboTax. Taxes was waiting and wondering and worrying. It's almost like how in the old days of fantasy football, we used to have to tally the scores on a Monday, and then the commissioner would just mail them out to everybody and you would wait three days to see if you won. Those were the old ways of doing it. Now taxes is matching with a TurboTax Live full service expert who gives your taxes their undivided attention. They can file your taxes as soon as today. And while they do, you get real time updates on their progress, meaning you can get back to what's important. The game. Now, this is taxes into a TurboTax. Get an expert now on turbotax. Com. All right, this next award is from Super Bad, a movie we all love. It's the Seth drinks too Much and Accidentally Headbutts Emma Stone award. This goes to the Jaguars. I never understand what they do year after year, but this year they waived Christian Kirk so they could spend one year, 10 million on Diami Brown. And I just wanted to flag it. It's a seemingly small thing. Nobody's hurt. It's an innocent kind of dopey free agency thing, but it just, to me, sums up the Jaguars. Like, just keep Christian Kirk and don't wave him and don't take the cap hit on him. Now you're taking a cap hit on him and you're paying Diami Brown, who had, what, one good playoff game? I just. I don't think the Jaguars will ever get it. And one of the reasons they'll never get it is because the owner's son, who runs the team, also runs AEW and writes all the scripts for it every week. And I just don't think they're on the ball, is my take literally.
- [51:56]
Craig Horlbeck
Tony Khan, the son of the owner of the Jags, showed up. I think last year's draft was it where he had the neck brace from whatever they were doing at aew.
- [52:04]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, yeah.
- [52:05]
Craig Horlbeck
Which is a good summation of how the Jags are run. But, yeah, Giving Diami Brown $10 million. He doesn't have 800 receiving yards in his entire career. But I just keep thinking about when we were at the NFL combine in Indianapolis. I went to the press conference for the new GM of the Jaguars. It's a Jaguars GMTBD on the. On the. On the list, because they had just hired him, like, four days earlier. And then, like, this Jaguars PR staffer comes up and adjusts the mic and then just starts talking. And I was like, oh, my God, this Guy's the Jags GM. He's 34 years old. We called him Doogie Howser because it just looks like a child is running this team. And then you look what they're doing, and I'm like, well, either Trent Balky. They just used all his homework that he had collected, or it's an actual child running the team because nothing they've done makes. Makes very much sense.
- [52:43]
Bill Simmons
It's. It's been terrible the whole time. And somehow they almost beat the Patriots in a pivotal game in Foxborough. And we're leading in the second half with Blake Bortles. And that was like, the one moment, I think, for your. For your show next year. I think Craig shows up for the combine with an old school Ray Allen Sonics jersey and tries to pick a fight with Jordan Schultz because his dad is the reason. And that's good.
- [53:06]
Danny Heifetz
I can match his size a little bit. I'll tell him to pick on somebody.
- [53:09]
Bill Simmons
It's a good Bat. Yeah. Kevin Durant battle. I think it's good publicity for the show and I just think it's a good game plan. Anything else in the Jags before we move on? Because they just.
- [53:18]
Craig Horlbeck
The Jordan Lewis contract was the worst contract anyone's given out free agency so far. He's the 30 year old cornerback who is like it's a 30 year old slot. 30 year old cornerbacks don't get paid guaranteed money and slot cornerbacks don't get a ton of money. Jordan Lewis, I believe the Cowboys gave him 2 1/2 million dollars last year. He's getting 10. He got 20 million guaranteed. 30 overall. I actually don't know if he would have gotten five from another team. It's actually an inexplicable contract to give him 20 million guaranteed when he's basically the oldest cornerback whose size so far.
- [53:48]
Bill Simmons
The Jags, they never disappoint. All right, this next award is from Bridesmaids. It's the Annie Takes Sedatives and Has a Drink on the Airplane award for single worst game plan. That goes to the Cincinnati Bengals, who seem to be the only team that doesn't realize you should just pay your guys 6 months early instead of a year and a half too late. And a lot of people have been talking about this this week, but they're just fucked because they haven't taken care of Chase. They franchise tag Higgins. He'll probably hold out. Hendrickson wants a trade. And then in the middle of this, they paid 8 million a year for Mike Gasecki, which is like, so you guys need to find money, but you're also going to pay this tight end. This is the easiest position to find anybody for a million dollars. I don't understand what they're doing. I will say this though. Trey Hendrickson last year was unblockable down the stretch. I know their defense sucked, but that guy was, was, was beast. And I don't understand any of this. Danny Kelly, can you explain one aspect of it or are they just cheap? Is it. They're just cheap is the answer.
- [54:53]
Danny Kelly
I think the Kaseki thing is very interesting. Who are they competing against? Who are they negotiating against? With that one, I'm curious. And then why would you sign Samaj P Ryan? Spend any amount of money on a running back. When you.
- [55:06]
Bill Simmons
Right, you just find that guy in.
- [55:08]
Danny Kelly
August, you just picked a guy in the sixth round. Who is your starting running back in Chase Brown or fifth round or whatever it was. I mean learn that lesson is that you don't have to put Any money towards running back position. Save it all for T. Higgins and Jamar Chase. And. But like, if you look at all their signings, it's basically just like, man, you really should be using this money to extend your superstar players. And you can just find all these other guys in free agents or in the draft.
- [55:31]
Danny Heifetz
It's like they're procrastinating. It's like they have a big pay per due and instead they're like organizing their closet and signing some kind of signing Mike Kasiki.
- [55:40]
Danny Kelly
I'm vacuuming my house instead of working. Yeah.
- [55:43]
Bill Simmons
I'm really hoping for Joe Burrow to go NBA player on this whole thing and start like, the best thing that happened in the NFL is if Joe Burrow is represented by clutch and just leaking passive aggressive stuff out. Like, they better take care of these guys or else.
- [55:56]
Danny Heifetz
I feel like he already has, has he not?
- [55:58]
Bill Simmons
But nobody takes it seriously in the NFL because it's such like a facelift. We. He really needs to own it.
- [56:03]
Craig Horlbeck
Can you. Miles Garrett was the closest I thought anyone would come, but that he took the money. But I will say Joe Burrow. Imagine being Joe Burrow and spending the whole year just campaigning. I'm pay Jamar Chase, pay T. Higgins, pay my guys. And then you get the note, he gets the notification on his phone and it says, bengals sign Mike Kosicki to $24 million deal.
- [56:19]
Danny Heifetz
He's like, what?
- [56:19]
Craig Horlbeck
Like, I can't even imagine being burrowed that moment.
- [56:21]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, that's terrible. Are you upset Kristen Wake didn't make more comedies? Craig looks like there was like two more bridesmaids in her and just. She didn't want it.
- [56:30]
Danny Heifetz
No, she tried. She made that like Barb and Star go to Boca Raton or whatever. I didn't watch that. It hasn't worked for her.
- [56:36]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, I'm surprised there was.
- [56:38]
Bill Simmons
The spring show wasn't great.
- [56:39]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, I'm surprised there's no Wedding Crashers. Which team shit in the middle of the street?
- [56:44]
Bill Simmons
Listen, Wedding Crashers is coming up. We do have a wedding theme.
- [56:48]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah.
- [56:49]
Bill Simmons
Bridesmaids.
- [56:49]
Craig Horlbeck
They're shitting in the middle of the street.
- [56:51]
Bill Simmons
Oh, we have.
- [56:51]
Danny Kelly
This is happening.
- [56:52]
Bill Simmons
It's right. Right now. Coincidentally. It's our next award. It's the Melissa McCarthy. Look away, look away. Not a word. Which has to go to the Saints. I don't think there's a more depressing team in the league than the Saints. I tried to understand the Derek Carr thing where they're paying him more this year, but they also don't really want him as their quarterback. And it just seems like they're punting on this season and they're like. Well, from a million years ago when Sean Payton was here and we just kept pushing. I don't really fully understand the NFL salary cap and all the machinations of it because it just seems like you can just keep shoving money forward and do what the Chiefs do and some other teams. But the rub of it is this Derek Carr situation where you can't shove it anymore and the guy stinks. And now it's like, and now you're in this Russell Wilson, Denver type of situation.
- [57:50]
Craig Horlbeck
I would be so bummed out. The Saints thing's actually not as complicated. It's kind of complicated. But the simplest way the NFL teams, when you hit the, hit the cap, you. It's very easy to get there because you can just change the contracts because anytime you like Milton Williams, oh, five year deal, it's a three year, it's two year deal and there's three team options. That's why you don't hear the team option language in the NFL.
- [58:09]
Bill Simmons
It's.
- [58:09]
Craig Horlbeck
They're all team options.
- [58:11]
Bill Simmons
Right?
- [58:11]
Craig Horlbeck
So the NFL, so you can just decline the team option, which is called cutting the guys, and you get under the cap. The NBA, that's not how it works. Right. Because they're guaranteed contracts. And so like the Sixers, they're just.
- [58:22]
Bill Simmons
Like Paul Georgian and BE now.
- [58:23]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah. And that's your Picasso. The trade machine, you move it like Tetris pieces. The Saints have created an NBA situation for themselves in the NFL where they can't get rid of any of their players. So they have to trade it like Tetris pieces, like an NBA team, because they're stuck with everyone. And the biggest one they have is Derek Carr because they're just frankly going about this like it's like a late night on Bourbon street and they don't want the night to end. So now they have to work with Derek Carr, who they don't like. Derek Carr doesn't really like them and they're stuck together because they can't move his deal. So the only thing they could do is keep pushing it down the the road because they can't get rid of him and no one wants to work with him.
- [58:57]
Bill Simmons
It's brutal. And they have the ninth pick. And if Sanders is there, I think they have to take them. Right? When are they either, you know, unless they just don't. I just don't know what they do. But is there Craig, Is there a team you'd less Want to be a fan of than the Saints right now?
- [59:12]
Danny Heifetz
No. Sadly, no.
- [59:14]
Bill Simmons
They're number one, right?
- [59:15]
Danny Heifetz
No, there's no.
- [59:15]
Bill Simmons
Even if your jets are Giants, like Giants, you could be like, oh, we have Malik neighbors. Well, we're in New York. Well, we have a good defensive line. I don't know what the case is for the Saints.
- [59:24]
Danny Heifetz
No, it's. It's bleak.
- [59:25]
Craig Horlbeck
I think they've had a nice, wholesome off season.
- [59:27]
Danny Kelly
The Saints, too. They are constantly and consistently forever overconfident in what they can do. You know what I mean? They. They. I think they probably believe they can compete this year and honestly in that division. Maybe they can. I don't know.
- [59:40]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, well, I went to Saints Reddit just to see what the vibe was. It's grim, people.
- [59:46]
Danny Kelly
I think Saints fans really don't like Derek Carr. From what I've heard.
- [59:49]
Bill Simmons
They really don't like Derek Carr. They weren't doing backflips about chase young for three years for 57 million. Yeah.
- [59:55]
Danny Kelly
What does that solve?
- [59:57]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, and they were. They lost a few guys and it's pretty grim. All right, next one. This is for Craig. It's the Step Brothers Catalina Wine Mixer award for single funniest concept. And that goes to the Steelers if they sign Aaron Rodgers and have him throwing footballs to DK Metcalf and George Pickens. Yeah, that sounds like the worst idea ever.
- [60:20]
Danny Heifetz
Or the best one. Is it so sane that I just blew your mind? I have in mind a different stepbrothers quote, which is when Dale and Brennan first meet. And standing in the driveway, and Dale's like, I'm Dale, but you have to call me Dragon. And Brennan's like, well, then you have to call me Nighthawk. That is George Pickens and DK Metcalf meeting each other. These guys are going to be unbelievable. It's going to be like a WWE event every time they have to block 2, 5, 10 corners. Corners couldn't be more scared of any team than the Pittsburgh Steelers coming to town. Now, look, this is. I'm. I'm all for this entire circus coming through Pittsburgh.
- [60:56]
Danny Kelly
Dude, the best. The best strategy every team is going to have against the Steelers this year is just start fights just right. Metcalf. And it's like the Dennis Rodman thing. Just go get in their heads. Get in the heads of Pickens and DK Metcalf. And it's like, yeah, you should.
- [61:09]
Bill Simmons
You should get Isaiah Stewart from the Pistons and just have him just suit up and just try to start fights high. Fitz. What's the worst idea. Paying a second round pick and 30 million a year to DK Metcalf. Knowing. Knowing that George Pickens is going to take this personally and immediately also want to get paid. Or having Aaron Rodgers as your starting quarterback for those two guys. If you had to pick a worse.
- [61:33]
Craig Horlbeck
Idea, probably Rogers, because he's just going to get hurt and then. Then you're gonna go back to Russell Wilson or something. No, I, I think I actually kind of. Yeah, I actually like the Metcalf.
- [61:46]
Bill Simmons
Let's hear it. Okay, we're going streaking.
- [61:52]
Craig Horlbeck
You like that's it.
- [61:53]
Bill Simmons
You're just saying, you're like, hey, you have no evidence, anything.
- [61:56]
Craig Horlbeck
I like Metcalf for the Steelers. I think Pickens is crazy. Like, my rule of thumb is if Mike Colman gives up on a receiver that he can't handle, there's a reason. Like Antonio Brown when they give up useless Deontay Johnson's been on three teams since the Steelers got rid of him. If Mike Tomlin's like, I don't want to get rid of Pickens. Pickens is useless. And so I actually think, to your point, I don't think they're going to pay Pickens. I think they got mechanics. Yeah.
- [62:14]
Bill Simmons
So they let him.
- [62:14]
Craig Horlbeck
Pickens is out.
- [62:15]
Danny Kelly
Right.
- [62:15]
Craig Horlbeck
And I think they're going to get rid of him. And then at that point, I look at the Seahawks, Steelers, things as related as two midlife crisis teams that are going about it in different ways. The Steelers went and got a sports car and the Seahawks kind of just shaved their head and they're like, you know what? I'm just going to like, this is the new.
- [62:28]
Bill Simmons
They lost weight, stopped eating meat.
- [62:30]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, exactly.
- [62:30]
Danny Kelly
Going on a darkness retreat.
- [62:32]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, exactly.
- [62:33]
Bill Simmons
I think I was like one of the last three Pickens defenders. Craig's probably last.
- [62:37]
Danny Kelly
Craig's there. I'm there still.
- [62:39]
Bill Simmons
But when he. When they ended the game with the Browns Hail Mary and the Thursday night. And instead of trying to kick the pass, he just decided to start a fight during the play. At that point I was like, I think even I'm out on George Pickens because that. It's just insane behavior. Oh, Sarah Marshall, we're back again. The Peter Bretter hooking up with Sarah Marshall award for. I'm happy for you, but are we sure this is a good idea? Chris Godwin, 3 for 66. And everyone's saying, no, this is great. That's a great price. He took a discount.
- [63:12]
Craig Horlbeck
Did he?
- [63:13]
Bill Simmons
Did he take a discount because he had a torn acl A couple years ago, he had a really badly broken ankle last year, so now he has two major leg injuries. He's about to hit his 30s. And like, I was. I gotta say, I was worried this was gonna be like a pat's overpay. I was worried they were gonna give him like 3 for 75 or something. I don't know if this guy's gonna stay healthy. Why are we just penciling in Chris Godwin and be awesome again? Anybody?
- [63:39]
Danny Kelly
I think from the fantasy point of view, and this is a strategy we have started to adopt on the show, is just avoid anybody coming off of a massive injury, major in injury. Because it usually is the year after, the year after they get right. Get back from the injury that they start to play well again. And honestly, which was last year for.
- [63:58]
Danny Heifetz
Godwin, that last year was the year after, the year after.
- [64:00]
Danny Kelly
And he laid out great.
- [64:01]
Danny Heifetz
He was incredible.
- [64:02]
Danny Kelly
Right? But, yeah, I mean, you can look at so many different examples of guys that whether they re injure the same thing or they have some sort of compensatory injury where they're, you know, like their muscles are trying to make up for, like, weakness or whatever from coming back from an injury. It's just. It's so hard for these guys to get back to where they were. He's getting older. I think Godwin is kind of built diff. He is. He's an incredible athlete and everything you hear about him, he's an incredible person. But, yeah, it's risky to give him that much money coming off of this massive injury like that.
- [64:32]
Danny Heifetz
I think there's a little bit of just like, good guy tax. Culture tax. Everybody loves Chris Godwin, by all means.
- [64:37]
Bill Simmons
People are saying he got a deal on it. Heifitz, you had that with Saquon, right? He came back from the ACL and it was an extra year before he looked like Saquon again.
- [64:45]
Craig Horlbeck
It's the perfect example. Stefania Bell actually wrote a lot about this at espn, but basically, it's just. Honestly, it's funny. Adrian Peterson came back from the ACL and ran for 2,000 yards, and everyone talks about that. Has it happened since he's the outlier. Yeah, but everyone else, like, in Saquon's obviously also a crazy, like, freak athlete. People always come back, aren't the same, and the people are like, oh, I'm out. And then the next year they're great. Like my. A fantasy sleeper. I'll tell you about in August. TJ Hawkinson, he looked great in the second half of December because he was coming back from the acl. Tawkins is going to be like my favorite tight end in fantasy this year because he's fully back. So with Godwin, the Patriots offered him more. I think he turned it down. He wanted a rehab with the same people, which I think makes sense. I think that. I agree, actually. I thought the sticker shock was kind of crazy for some with the injury, but that's one of those situations to remember with all these. The Bucks know about the injury better than everyone. So if the Bucks are willing to give him the money, I think it means that the Bucks aren't as worried about it. If the Bucks are worried about it, then that would be bad.
- [65:35]
Danny Kelly
The way that he plays too, like running, he mainly was out of the slot last year. He moved back to the slot. I think that's a little bit different than trying to be like this guy that wins on the outside against one on one coverage and you know, all that stuff. His role I think could give him an opportunity to still be productive, but I think at the end of the day, coming off of a major injury, it's. It's scary.
- [65:54]
Craig Horlbeck
Also, Diami Brown got $10 million. I'll give Chris Godwin a little over 20.
- [65:58]
Danny Kelly
Atwell got 10 mil.
- [65:59]
Bill Simmons
Craig, is that Sarah Marshall scene when they hook up again and then stop? Is that a top 20 aborted blowjob scene for you in movie history? Top 10 where would you go? Single white females 1.
- [66:10]
Danny Heifetz
I have a giant folder under my bed. I'd have to go through that.
- [66:13]
Bill Simmons
All right, check that out. You can do it on Rewatchables on Monday. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn. During the season, every baseball team plays 162 games. It's a true test of endurance. It's not enough to have a hot month or two. You need sustained dominance throughout. Well, the same is true for your small business. It's not enough to have a great Q2, even a great year. You want year over year growth that starts with better hires that'll be there for the long haul. To find Those hires, use LinkedIn. LinkedIn has strong hiring data and insights that you won't find anywhere else to help pair you with the best candidates, from unique skills and interests to the connections you have in common. Based on LinkedIn data, 72% of small businesses say that LinkedIn helps them find high quality talent. LinkedIn also lets you go beyond people who are actively applying. In a given week, 171 million LinkedIn members aren't actively seeking jobs, but they are open to new opportunities. That's a big pool to miss out on. If you're not hiring with LinkedIn, find your next great hire on LinkedIn. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com Simmons that's LinkedIn.com Simmons to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply. This episode is brought to you by Workday There are two kinds of people in the world. Backward thinkers and forward thinkers. Forward thinkers have plans 15 minutes from now and 15 years from now. They're not just one step ahead, they're 1,000 steps ahead. And when you're a forward thinker, you need a platform that thinks like you do. Workday's AI illuminates decision making and reimagines how you manage your people and money for long term success. Workday Moving business forever forward. Find out more@workday.com hey old school the Mitch hooks up with a high school senior award for oh, this is an aging well, this goes to two aging guys. The Rams dumping aging Cooper cup so they could overpay aging Devonte Adams 2 for 46. I don't understand this either. Unless they just think Cooper Cobb's Cooper Cup's body is shot, which I would probably tend to believe them. Hyphetz what'd you think of this one?
- [68:22]
Craig Horlbeck
I liked it. I think it's just one for it's one for 23 and then I think they could get out of it with like 6 million dead money in 2026. So it's like whatever, but it's really a one year deal for 26 million and I think they look at it as wow, our defense is really young, really cheap, really good. What if we just win the super bowl this year because devonte is that like stagnant X outside receiver that the Rams offense kind of needs now. Because the first version of it was like Robert woods and Cooper cup and then the next version of it was like Brandon Cooks as the X receiver makes everything else works like you need a reliable X. Like an actual true threat as the outside receiver Brandon Cooks. They almost won the super bowl over your Patriots when Odell was there. They got to the super bowl and won it with the Bengals. He got hurt mid game. The whole thing changed. Like devonte is in that role now. So I think this is just, you know what, you have all this cap money. Devonte's the closest of all these old receivers to his peak form. I would say he's peak, but he's closer than Cooper cup or these guys. Let's just like make one Last run. Trying to weave together the old and a new. Kind of like the warriors where you have all these young guys, all these old guys. They have the old core of Stafford. Keep Stafford, keep like Rob Havenstein and like moving on from cup and like Devonta kind of Adams.
- [69:23]
Bill Simmons
So Jimmy Butler in that scenario?
- [69:25]
Craig Horlbeck
Honestly, yes, actually, I gotta say, I was really.
- [69:28]
Bill Simmons
I liked high Fitz's football terminology. During that little rant, there would come a long way. You're talking X and Y spacing. I was impressed.
- [69:40]
Craig Horlbeck
Nine years. I know all my letters.
- [69:42]
Danny Kelly
Yeah, it was good. The Rams receivers, almost all of them making catches, are off of motion last year. And he gives them. And what Heifet said with the static thing is he can just line up on the line of scrimmage, get open. I don't know about the NBA comparison, but devonte Adams kind of reminds me of an old guy with, like, knee pads and goggles at the Y his game.
- [70:02]
Bill Simmons
That's your name? That's Craig. Like two years from now, Craig.
- [70:06]
Danny Kelly
His game just translates or ages. Well, I think, because he is. He's all about, you know, route running, hands, body positioning, setting up guys. And I think he doesn't. He never was really this guy that relied too much on speed. It's kind of like the DeAndre Hopkins thing where, you know, even if he's not very fast, he just wins because he's so savvy as a route runner and positioning. And I assume he's going to get on the same page really well with Stafford. Stafford's always made receivers. We call him the kingmaker. In fantasy, he's the receiver kingmaker. He feeds his guys until there's no tomorrow. And so I'm excited. It makes me happy, Bill, that you're, like, a little down on this. Because from my point of view, this is scary as a Seahawks fan that they signed Vonte Adams. I hate it.
- [70:50]
Bill Simmons
He won't be on my fantasy team.
- [70:51]
Danny Heifetz
Craig Devonte Adams won't.
- [70:54]
Bill Simmons
I don't. It checks a couple boxes for me. Guy getting older, guy with. Didn't have as good of a season last year as the stats say. Guy changing teams again, who's a receiver. That always makes me nervous. I don't like when receivers change.
- [71:08]
Danny Heifetz
There's a chance he's better for the Rams than he is for your fantasy team.
- [71:12]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, I think that's definitely true also. Wait. Picking a pickup basketball Bill, word on the street. Are you. Are you going to unretire?
- [71:19]
Bill Simmons
No, my wife vetoed it.
- [71:21]
Danny Heifetz
Oh.
- [71:23]
Bill Simmons
I can't afford to get divorce Heifetz. That's really what it came down to. She's like, you're not playing again. This could be a real issue for us. And I was like, okay, good to know. Oh, let's go to this is the end.
- [71:36]
Danny Kelly
Nice.
- [71:36]
Bill Simmons
The Michael Sarah and this is the end award for most hilarious cameo. It's going to go to somebody you're not expecting. Anthony Richardson, a two year cameo passed through our life. Amazing combine. Got super excited, went flying up the draft. Oh my God. This guy's like Cam Newton with it. And, and I guess we're done now. Kind of like Michael Cera in that movie where he's just Michael Sarah's been murdered. Okay. I guess he's not in anymore.
- [72:04]
Danny Heifetz
Anthony Richardson is overthrowing running backs in the flat and getting impaled by telephone poles. Is it bad?
- [72:11]
Bill Simmons
Danny Dimes is standing over him. All the giant things. Yeah.
- [72:15]
Craig Horlbeck
Open the door.
- [72:15]
Bill Simmons
They signed Danny Dimes for 1 for 4 and the Colts are saying, we want these guys to compete. And in the words of James Baby Doll Dixon, I wish them a lot of luck. That sounds like quite a competition. What are your thoughts, Craig?
- [72:29]
Danny Heifetz
I think Daniel Jones has definitely become underrated and I think he honestly probably just does all the things that Anthony Richardson does, but better. Which I can't believe I'm saying. But I, I, I, you know, I, I, I understand wanting to commit to Anthony Richardson one more time, but you need a good backup who's going to come in and immediately be better and make all the fans upset. And that's what Daniel Jones will be this year.
- [72:50]
Bill Simmons
Is. Is Dimes qualified for your two years after the injury rule high Fitz or no?
- [72:56]
Craig Horlbeck
No. Because I think there are a few quarterbacks no one talks about as they were never the same after the injury, but they don't get put in that bucket. Daniel Jones was never the same. He had this neck injury, his spinal injury and he lost his deep touch after that and it was never the same. Like he used to be really aggressive in 2019. He had this neck injury. Carson Wentz was never the same after the acl. Mariota had a nerve injury in his arm. Like we never talk about him that way. To Craig's point though, just have to say ton of things. Anthony Richardson does way better than Daniel Jones. I don't think Daniel Jones, I'm not kidding. There's a point that he literally couldn't throw it further than his two receivers. Kadari's Tony can throw the football further than Daniel Jones can.
- [73:28]
Danny Heifetz
Well, Anthony Richardson can only throw it further than all of his receivers.
- [73:31]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, he can just overthrow his guys by 20 yards.
- [73:34]
Craig Horlbeck
They're like, it's like they're like feet in the freezer, head in the oven and like together they're average. If they could just put like their skills together, I think that they would be like really good.
- [73:42]
Danny Heifetz
I think Daniel Jones can come complete passes which I think is important in the NFL in 2025 and for the, the Colts who can run the ball, they have a good offensive line, they have decent receivers. They just need somebody to put the ball in guys laps. And Daniel Jones could do that like juice box.
- [73:57]
Danny Kelly
I think he's active. I think Daniel Jones is actively bad. I think it's. I think Anthony Richardson.
- [74:02]
Bill Simmons
I think it's a wrap. I almost. This almost made me wonder. They do they do this as a way to boost Anthony Richards confidence? Like if they think this could still be our guy. Well, what do we do? Well, we'll bring in this guy to challenge him. But the guy hasn't been good in three years and he's going to kick this guy's ass. It's almost like isn't that what Joe.
- [74:21]
Danny Heifetz
Flacco was and then Joe Flacco was better than him?
- [74:24]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, well, I guess.
- [74:26]
Danny Kelly
But Daniel Jones isn't actually better than Anthony Richardson is the thing.
- [74:29]
Bill Simmons
No, it's like the beginning of Rocky III when Mickey was like staging all these tomatoes for Rocky to make Rocky think he was this invincible champ. And I think Daniel Jones might be a tomato.
- [74:39]
Danny Kelly
Heifetz's joke for the longest time was he's worried about Daniel Jones crossing the street because he has no peripheral vision. He gets sacked and he fumbles more than anyone in the world.
- [74:49]
Craig Horlbeck
He lives in Hoboken. I'm like, he's going to hit that car, I guarantee.
- [74:52]
Danny Heifetz
I don't know. I had Anthony Richardson on my fantasy team last year. I watched every snap.
- [74:56]
Danny Kelly
I mean that was tough.
- [74:57]
Danny Heifetz
It was not a fun experience.
- [74:58]
Bill Simmons
That was like when Kevin Clark almost got. I think he did get hit by a car crossing to go to Starbucks.
- [75:03]
Danny Kelly
He got hit by a car more than once.
- [75:05]
Bill Simmons
Super novation on Kevin Clark or Daniel Jones blaming Kevin.
- [75:10]
Craig Horlbeck
It ran up on the sidewalk.
- [75:13]
Bill Simmons
Well, should have been one of the ones there. One of the ones where that's true. Why was he on the sidewalk? The Matt Damon zero trip cameo award for the most unexpected moment of joy for all of us was the bills just randomly getting Josh Palmer. I thought of Craig immediately. Craig's never. You have the most stock in this guy. Do you guys Texting relationship with him. Like, are you friends with them? If he's in town, do you eat dinner with him? Like, how does it work?
- [75:37]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah, that's why I'm bummed he's now in Buffalo. He's geographically as far away as he could possibly be from me. And we used to meet every single, every week on an In N Out. Look, it's a great deal. Three years, 36 million for Buffalo. They got a professional wide receiver who? All the nerds out there and me, we get it. We understand the underlying metrics are there with Josh Palmer. It may not have worked last year. He was beat up a little bit last year. This guy has great hands. He has good size. He's a good route runner. He's immediately the best rob receiver on the Bills other than Khalil Shakir. And he's just a professional football player. He makes every team better. I don't know who wouldn't want Josh Palmer.
- [76:12]
Bill Simmons
I like him too. I was playing a Madden season with Drake May and I traded for Josh Palmer. I just put him right on the Pats. Guys, I was thinking that rant Craig just did about Josh Palmer.
- [76:22]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah.
- [76:22]
Bill Simmons
When he. During the five spots, during the. As you guys are getting closer and closer to the drafts, you could just run that as a video, like on a loop, like in Speed with Keanu Reeves standing next to the bus driver. And Craig could go like P. Just run the same rant overnight. Like you'll get a glass of water and just run the Josh Palmer rant and go, I'm excited for Josh to Josh Heifetz. Josh squared.
- [76:46]
Craig Horlbeck
Some sort of.
- [76:47]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, there's something there.
- [76:49]
Craig Horlbeck
I like it. Well, Josh squared is really good. I like that. Because now we're gonna have JJ to JJ and Josh to Josh, J and J. Yeah.
- [76:55]
Bill Simmons
There's all kinds of ways.
- [76:56]
Craig Horlbeck
A lot of Jays, but I mean, overall, I think that's like a peak underrated receiver room of like Khalil Shakir and Josh Palmer and Keon Coleman. I think that's going to be like the indie receiver room. Everyone's going to be the most likely. Yeah.
- [77:07]
Danny Heifetz
Josh Palmer. Guess how old he is. 25 years old.
- [77:11]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, I like that. Palmer for the Pats.
- [77:16]
Danny Heifetz
I was hoping it could be a PAT20 wide receiver in the NFL. I'm saying he's a contributor to a good team and the Bills are a smart team and they know what they're doing. And Josh Palmer is going to be relevant and contribute to the Bills.
- [77:26]
Craig Horlbeck
What percentage of your love for Josh Palmer is because Three years ago, I was like, I, Josh Palmer will never do anything in the NFL.
- [77:32]
Danny Heifetz
75% of it.
- [77:33]
Danny Kelly
Yeah.
- [77:35]
Craig Horlbeck
Mostly because I didn't like him.
- [77:37]
Bill Simmons
I like Josh. I'm rooting for him. We don't have to talk about this next award, but I'm just going to throw because we talked about the top. But the Damian Cockburn dropping his cast into the jungle award for craziest idea that just might work is if the. If. If the Giants can just take Sanders at 3 and send Hunter or Carter down, I'm going to be focused on this for the next six weeks. Next award, the Danny McBride Making Breakfast Award for the transaction that randomly brought me the most joy. Kenny Pickett traded to the Cleveland Browns for DST and a fifth. I stared at this for 20 minutes. How did they decide that a draft pick should be involved? Does this mean the Browns are going to start Kenny Pickett? How did Howie Roseman get a draft pick for Kenny Pickett? And if you're the Browns and you're one of the stupidest teams of the last 10 years, should you just ever trade with the Eagles under any circumstances? I loved all of the aspects of this trade. Does anyone want to take a crack at trying to explain this?
- [78:39]
Danny Kelly
Is this the Danny McBride, like, butterfly.
- [78:42]
Danny Heifetz
Going across the screen, do you think? During their negotiations with Miles Garrett. Right. You know, when he was deciding should I leave or should I stay, they said, don't worry, we're going to bring in a Super bowl winning quarterback.
- [78:53]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, we have somebody. We have somebody in our back pocket signed here.
- [78:58]
Danny Kelly
We did a bit on the show for a long time during Kenny Pickett's rookie year. That was just Kenny Pickett facts. And it was like every Kenny Pickett stat was just sadder than the last. Every Kenny Pickett stat was just the saddest thing you've ever heard in your life. Josh Dobbs came in and, like, passed more yards than him in, like, two games versus, you know, Kenny Pickett's entire season. Every Kenny Pickett fact was funnier than the last. Or sadder.
- [79:22]
Bill Simmons
Who's the Eagles backup now? McKee. Tanner McKee.
- [79:25]
Danny Kelly
Yeah. Yeah.
- [79:26]
Bill Simmons
I would add that to the sad Kenny Pickett facts. Tanner McKee made him expendable.
- [79:31]
Danny Kelly
Apparently, Tanner McKee probably threw more touchdowns than Kenny Pickett did in his entire time in Pittsburgh.
- [79:36]
Danny Heifetz
I think a team wanted Dorian Thompson Robinson over Kenny Pickett.
- [79:40]
Bill Simmons
Right.
- [79:41]
Craig Horlbeck
Kenny Pickett facts.
- [79:43]
Bill Simmons
Heifitz. Is there a chance Craig is talking himself into Kenny Pickett as, like, a sleeper stealth fantasy starter in, like, August.
- [79:50]
Craig Horlbeck
10Th oh, yeah, I would say like 80%.
- [79:53]
Bill Simmons
Okay. Because you've always kind of deep down liked him a little bit.
- [79:55]
Danny Heifetz
Craig, he had a little fourth quarter Tebow magic to him, and nobody wants to admit that, but he did. There were moments I'll still never forget that fourth quarter. Like over the shoulder touchdown to Najee Harris. That one in the game, he still. He has moments.
- [80:10]
Bill Simmons
I lost some stock on him, I'll tell you that much. I bought some Stock before that 23.
- [80:14]
Danny Heifetz
Season that was the best moment of the last, like, three years in the NFL media was during the preseason of Kenny Pickett's second year where he was like 15 for 15, 180 yards and two touchdowns.
- [80:27]
Bill Simmons
They made him a captain.
- [80:28]
Danny Heifetz
And for a week, everybody was like, we knew this was coming. He showed signs. He's a professional now.
- [80:34]
Danny Kelly
Joe Montana.
- [80:35]
Danny Heifetz
He's comfortable. Yeah. Like, this is the guy. He's got the clutch gene. Then he was fucking terrible immediately.
- [80:40]
Danny Kelly
Yeah.
- [80:40]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. My new rule is I'm just going to ignore every single thing that happens in the preseason and just stick with what I thought in July.
- [80:46]
Danny Kelly
All right.
- [80:47]
Bill Simmons
Only a couple more. The Simple Jack Award for most inevitable box office bomb. The Miami Dolphins I When do the over unders come out? When? When can they come out? Fandom, FanDuel. Can you just put out a Dolphins over under now? I'm going under. I don't care what it is. Is it eight and a half under? Seven and a half under? Six and a half? Fine. Under I. They can't make the under low enough. And Zach Wilson for $6 million where he ran at home. But it was like, that's they. The Tyreek trade request is coming. They lost Javon Holland today. There was an article about, hey, they got a chance for Joey Bosa. They're one of the finalists. Like, cool. He plays four games a year. That fits right in with the rest of the best guys in your team. They are still 43 to 1 on FanDuel to win the Super Bowl. I'd like to announce I'm booking that bet. If anyone wants to bet 43 to 1 on Miami Dolphins, I will book the action right here on the Bill Simmons podcast. That team's going to suck. Simple Jack right there. Anything to add, Heifets?
- [81:53]
Craig Horlbeck
I think the Dolphins are built like, frankly, like a Miami cocaine bender of. It's all like, just speed and cool shit, says Tyree Kill and Jalen Waddle and speed and cornerbacks. It's like they haven't eaten food in like three days. There's no Good guards or defensive tackles. And, like, they just have no protein and that now it's just like they've been awake too long and they're kind of getting paranoid.
- [82:10]
Bill Simmons
Tyreek on the team in September. Danny.
- [82:16]
Danny Kelly
I'm going to go. No.
- [82:18]
Bill Simmons
Feels. Feels Charger Z to me.
- [82:20]
Danny Kelly
Yeah, I think.
- [82:22]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, I don't think the Chargers have been quiet. So they just lose Josh Palmer.
- [82:26]
Danny Kelly
They desperately need some speed.
- [82:29]
Danny Heifetz
They signed Najee Harris, which is like the opposite of what they need. People who can run fast. Not Najee Harris.
- [82:36]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, I think Dolphins are going to be terrible. Craig, anything to add on Dolphins before we go to the last award?
- [82:43]
Danny Heifetz
It's like the madman quote. I don't think about the Dolphins.
- [82:45]
Bill Simmons
Okay. I'll actually have two more awards. I have the I love you, man award for sneaky best signings. Because I think I Love youe, man has become the sneaky best comedy of the 2000s. It just came out. There were too many comedies. It just kind of came and went. And I think it's a solid. I think it's a rewatchables candidate. I think it's really good.
- [83:08]
Danny Heifetz
I agree. I haven't seen it in a while. I need to watch it again. But I loved I love you man just came out.
- [83:12]
Bill Simmons
09 was just a gluttony. It was like. It's like the one that when the draft has, like, receiver gluts and there's just so many. It's like, whoa.
- [83:19]
Danny Heifetz
Now, if a movie.
- [83:20]
Craig Horlbeck
Thomas 25th.
- [83:21]
Danny Heifetz
If a movie like I Love you man came out, now I would, like, camp out overnight at the theater to see it.
- [83:25]
Bill Simmons
Oh, my God. All right. So sneaky best signings. I mentioned how much I like the Spillane signing to New England. I just love that guy. But Drake Greenlaw to the. To the Broncos really jumped out to me because that's another one where it's coming off the injury. And now there's been enough distance and he just fits in with what they do. I just. That one jumped out. I was like, ah, that's a. That's a really good one. What. What was your favorite sneaky signing? Dk?
- [83:54]
Danny Kelly
Ooh, that is a good question. I think.
- [83:59]
Bill Simmons
You could say Josh Palmer. Even though we already talked about him.
- [84:02]
Danny Kelly
Josh Palmer is a funny one. DJ Reed to the Lions. I don't know if that was sneaky.
- [84:07]
Bill Simmons
No, it was because they got rid of Carlton Davis and basically paid DJ Reed less to play the same position.
- [84:12]
Danny Kelly
I've been a fan of him. I think he's a good cover corner. He has Ball skills. He's the way he plays, like he has an attitude. He brings an intensity to the defense. I think he's the perfect Dan Campbell defender. They needed some help in the secondary and I think he's a. He's a really smart signing for them.
- [84:28]
Bill Simmons
What do you have? If it's.
- [84:29]
Craig Horlbeck
I have the same one I. That one. I don't understand what was going on there. DJ Reed outplayed Sauce Gardner last year for the Jets. Like, DJ Ray was just straight up better. And then you look at the jets bringing in, I think Brandon Stevens for like 12 million a year. I'm like, just give DJ reads 16 in a world where Carlton gave us 20 again. Jordan Jordan for the. Went to the Jaguars, Jordan Lewis for 10 million a year. I'm like, D.J. reed, 16. He's actually good. So I think that, that for the way Detroit wants to play defense, I think most of the signings in the first day of free agency are. You look back, you're like, that's the one where I think you could look back and be like, oh my God, if Detroit's making the NFC championship game again, I think that could be the difference.
- [85:04]
Bill Simmons
I thought the Pats were going to get him and they went with Carlton Davis instead because the D.C. coached him. But I also think it felt like an attitude pick. He's like a big shit talker, like tough guy, and I think they want the defense to have guys like that. But I thought DJ Reed was really good last year and I agree with you. I thought the games I watched, it felt like he was even. What do you have for your sneaky signing, Craig?
- [85:28]
Danny Heifetz
I'm going to stay in house and I'm going to say Darius Slade of the Steelers, who pretty much just have one solid corner in Joey Porter. And he's a great veteran presence. I mean, the guy was a starter all through the playoffs for the Eagles and just like a sneaky. He's 34 years old, but this is the perfect type of guy to come in when you're, when you're in this like win now mode. So I think him opposite Joey Porter is an awesome one year deal.
- [85:55]
Bill Simmons
Did Aaron Rodgers get signed yet? Because I only have one more award. He's just going to wait till Thursday. He's milking it.
- [86:02]
Danny Heifetz
Yeah, he's going to. He's going to wait to release Enema.
- [86:05]
Craig Horlbeck
Part history documentary Enema Enema of the.
- [86:09]
Bill Simmons
Empire State Enema from religion of sports, May 25. All right, last award. The waking up in a trash Vegas hotel room with a Splitting hangover, a random baby, a tiger in the bathroom, a missing tooth, and a missing buddy. Award goes to The San Francisco 49ers, who lost everyone on their team.
- [86:27]
Danny Kelly
I know.
- [86:28]
Bill Simmons
And they weren't good. Last year. They lost to Fanga, Ward, Greenlaw, Kinlaw, Debo, Aaron Banks, Jaylen Moore, Hargrave, Jusk. They overpaid Ayuk, who immediately got hurt. They locked up McCaffrey right before his inevitable injury there, but it knew was happening, and now they're about to overpay Brock Purdy. This feels like a car going off a mountain in slow motion. It might have already gone off the mountain. Dk, you have to be ecstatic because there's no team you hate more than I don't 49ers.
- [86:59]
Danny Kelly
Look, I don't want to jinx anything. Can the other two answer about this one right now?
- [87:03]
Bill Simmons
It looks.
- [87:03]
Danny Kelly
It looks good for me, but yeah.
- [87:05]
Craig Horlbeck
I. Yeah, no, I think this is bad for the Niners. I mean, again, Brock Purdy was making about as much per year almost as Dak Prescott made per quarter. And now Brock Purdy is going to make as much as Dak Prescott a year, probably somewhere between 50 and 60 million dollars a year. And this is the cost. It's the eight guys. I'm a big believer that actually Kyle Shannon's on the Andy Reid timeline. Very similar offensive wizard. Don't know about the game management getting good enough that you're getting far enough to be criticized for not being the big one. Kind of like LeBron early where it's like Andy Reid four championship games in a row could wasn't the guy and Andy Reid had to go to another team. I kind of wonder if Kyle Shannon is going to be just as good of a coach as people thought, but he's going to need to do another organization because I don't like where this is going. I don't know how much longer John lynch is going to be in that GM spot. And I think that. I mean, this is the. The guys losing are just a good draft class. And I don't know what happens as these draft classes thin out, how this team's going to age. I think, frankly, like, all these guys are so competitive and locked in, and when you get that close, the idea of rebuilding on the fly, it's like emotionally very challenging. So I. I am very pessimistic where the Niners are going the next few years.
- [88:04]
Bill Simmons
When you said Andy Reid timeline, I immediately thought to the year when they went like 4 and 12 and he got fired.
- [88:10]
Craig Horlbeck
Yeah, I. I think that could. I think Kyle Shanahan might win a Super bowl, but like with a different team, he needs a reset.
- [88:16]
Bill Simmons
One question that I think people will probably start thinking about when we get to August. Cause there were so many coaching jobs that flipped is what are going to be like the big coaching jobs in January 2026. And if you're just going. If you had to like handicap it, I would say the Niners and the Dolphins would be the two. Is there another. The Steelers. Would you throw on there?
- [88:38]
Danny Heifetz
Well, I think Heifetz, you know, maybe you should want Aaron Rodgers because if he blows up the New York Giants and cleans. Craig.
- [88:45]
Bill Simmons
Craig. To be fair. To be fair, I said big coaching jobs.
- [88:49]
Danny Heifetz
Right, right, right.
- [88:51]
Craig Horlbeck
I will say.
- [88:51]
Bill Simmons
I didn't say coaching jobs.
- [88:53]
Craig Horlbeck
If Shannon was available, Bill, what is the right. Because you talked about how like the real market price for Kobe was like 75 million one year because they were just paying. They could have saved 50 million to cut him. And like the real price. What should the Giants pay Kyle Shannon? In theory, like, you could tell me he's worth $60 million a year and I'd be like, okay, it's not my money.
- [89:11]
Bill Simmons
Is it weird that I don't rate him as highly as some of the others? Well, you've never been on him, but I just feel like they've lost a lot of games in the, you know, third, fourth quarter, a lot of big games over the years, even going Back to Patriots 28 3. Like, I don't know how that doesn't hang on him at least a little bit. Like, that team never comes through when it matters over and over and over again. And even, you know, I don't know. I. I think he's a good coach. And is he one of the 12 best coaches in the league? Sure. But I don't. I wouldn't value him like that. To me, I would value somebody like Tomlin way more. Where. And I know Tomlin drives. You've had him forever. Craig, he probably some things about him that drives you crazy, but he hasn't had a good quarterback since like 2015, 16, whatever that last good Roethlisberger year was.
- [89:58]
Danny Heifetz
And we haven't won a playoff game since.
- [90:00]
Craig Horlbeck
I was gonna say you could argue Shanahan hasn't either. I will say this. I think that Shannon's been winning in the fourth quarter. Quarter in the Super bowl three of the last 10 Super Bowls. And the Steelers haven't won a playoff game in that time.
- [90:08]
Bill Simmons
True. I just, I think he's Fine. But if. If he's like the savior in New York. First of all, his interviews are a little weird, right, Kendall?
- [90:17]
Craig Horlbeck
Roy. Ish.
- [90:17]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, he's a little. I don't. I don't know how that would play.
- [90:20]
Danny Heifetz
It's tough. His whole. I mean, he is like a Jimmy G overthrow away from having a completely.
- [90:26]
Bill Simmons
Different career trajectory, but he's also a no Brock Purdy away from. He would have been fired two years ago because that Trey Lance thing would have run the franchise into the ground. So I don't. I don't know the answer, but I don't know. Would you put him. Dk. Would you put him in, like, your top five coaches? Because I would not.
- [90:45]
Danny Kelly
I rate him pretty highly. I don't know about top five. I'd say top ten, for sure, though. I feel pretty confident in him as a guy who can get a lot out of the talent he has on offense, which means a lot in the NFL and, you know, like, the ability to go in and have a very good offense with a. The last pick of the draft, you know, and he's done it with several different. Basically, every. Anyone who goes and plays for the 49ers is going to average, like, 8 plus yards per attempt. I think there's a ton of value in that. No coach is perfect, though. You know, every coach has, like a. It feels like every great coach has one thing that's like they're really bad at. Kyle Shanahan's is like the late game collapses. I know 49er fans are probably pretty sick of that, but.
- [91:28]
Bill Simmons
Well, but to be fair, that was the Andy Reid thing, because that was when I was writing football columns and basketball columns all the time. And Andy Reid was. I had him in the playoff manifest. I never bet on Andy Reid in the playoffs. He was like, rule number six, and he had a lot of bad ones, and they piled up. And it got to the point where you said, yeah, this guy. This guy has a fatal flaw. So I don't know, but I does feel like this feels like the end of the line for. For the diners in a lot of different ways. All right, so we didn't get to talk about the Joe Milton sweepstakes. The Bears beefing up both lines. J.J. mcCarthy. Time for the movies that. I think we hit every movie, except we didn't talk about Mean Girls, didn't talk about dodgeball, Pineapple Express. Any award you want to just pull out of your back pocket, Craig, Just with no prep at all.
- [92:16]
Danny Heifetz
Oh, man. Bang.
- [92:18]
Bill Simmons
We didn't do Road trip.
- [92:20]
Craig Horlbeck
Bang.
- [92:21]
Bill Simmons
What's bang?
- [92:22]
Craig Horlbeck
Don't.
- [92:24]
Bill Simmons
But who does that go to, though?
- [92:26]
Craig Horlbeck
I used to carry this when I was Aaron Rodgers. Sweepstakes.
- [92:29]
Bill Simmons
Don't. All right, that's good. All right. This was fun. So when's your next podcast?
- [92:37]
Danny Heifetz
Tomorrow.
- [92:39]
Bill Simmons
All right. Well, maybe Rogers will have decided, but my guess is he won't. Who's going to milk this for all he wants? Two teams left. Danny. Danny, Craig, great to see you guys as always. Craig, I'll see you tomorrow when it's threatening to become sports movie month on the rewatch.
- [92:52]
Danny Heifetz
Do you want to announce it now?
- [92:54]
Bill Simmons
No, but it's another sports movie.
- [92:56]
Danny Heifetz
Okay. I've never seen it. I'm watching it tonight.
- [92:59]
Bill Simmons
All right, great. Good to see you guys. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Danny and Danny and Craig. Thanks to Kyle and Gahao and Ceruti as well. Don't forget you can watch all the clips and videos from this pod on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. Don't forget about Rewatchable's best in show prestige TV hitting White Lotus at episode five's coming Sunday night. And I will see you on this podcast on Thursday.
- [93:45]
Craig Horlbeck
I don't have.
- [93:49]
Bill Simmons
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