The 2026 NBA Trade Value List. Plus, Harden, JJJ, and Giannis Trade News With Joe House

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Bill Simmons Podcast — 2026 NBA Trade Value List

Host: Bill Simmons
Guest: Joe House
Date: February 3, 2026
Theme: Annual deep dive into Bill Simmons' NBA Trade Value List, with real-time reactions to major breaking trade news, analyses of player value, contract intricacies, and candid opinions on the modern NBA landscape.

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Episode Overview

This episode is a signature annual event where Bill Simmons and Joe House rank NBA players by their "trade value"—a blend of talent, contract, age, and team desirability. The discussion is interwoven with massive, real-time NBA trade news, including breaking down deals involving James Harden, Darius Garland, Jaren Jackson Jr., and live reactions to several other unexpected trades. The episode combines laughs, sharp analytics, heated debates, and unfiltered stories, capturing the NBA's chaos and constant evolution right before the trade deadline.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trade Value List Concept and Evolution

• Simmons recaps the history: The Trade Value List started in 2007, evolving over two decades as the NBA changed—from rookie contracts to the painful modern salary/“apron” rules.
• "Trade Value" defined: Not just a player’s quality, but their contract, age, health, fit, and “untradeability” (i.e., how willingly a team would entertain offers).
• Methodology rules:
  • Salaries, age, and contract length matter more than ever in the apron era.
  • Real-life trades set market value—if a player is moved for cheap, that reflects their market.
  • "Degrees" debate—would a team even pick up the phone for an even swap?

Quote
"Salaries matter. Which matters more than ever in this goofy apron era... Rule number four, Happiness matters. So does durability."
—Bill Simmons (24:08)

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2. James Harden for Darius Garland: Live Analysis

(01:57–06:45)

• Background: Harden, unhappy again, is suddenly out for "personal reasons", triggering trade rumors. Reports suggest a straight-up swap with Darius Garland is imminent.
• Bill & House: Analyze why Cleveland would pivot to Harden, factoring in Garland's recurring injuries and the contract complexities (“trade kicker” and apron restrictions).
• Simmons’ personal take: As a Clippers ticket holder, he’s thrilled to see Harden gone, calling him his "least favorite good player to watch" since Dwight Howard.

Quote
"I'm sure he's a nice guy. I cannot stand watching James Harden. I can't stand it... I don't like driving 40 minutes... and then having to watch James Harden just have the ball all the time and fish for fouls."
—Bill Simmons (06:21)

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3. Breaking Trades: Jaren Jackson Jr. to the Utah Jazz

(15:34–19:40)

• Live breakdown: News hits that JJJ is headed to Utah in a massive deal; Markkanen is rumored but the trade involves Konchar, Landell, Anderson, Hendricks, Niang, and three first-rounders.
• Debate: What is Memphis’ angle? House points out this is the full rebuild (Morant likely next out), while Utah bets on pairing JJJ with Markkanen.

Memorable Line
"Something about Keonte George pushed them in this direction..."
—Joe House (18:44)

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4. Cleveland's Post-Harden Options & Giannis Antetokounmpo Sweepstakes

(14:08–15:20, 17:21–18:07, 118:06–121:02)

• Cleveland flexibility: Moving Harden could enable the Cavs to pursue Giannis, especially with assets and apron maneuvering.
• League-wide impacts: Knicks, Minnesota, and Boston mentioned as lurking contenders for a Giannis acquisition—debate on both timing (now vs. summer) and medical risks (his “calf always gets tweaked”).

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5. Jaren Jackson Trade Details: Mechanics and Aftershocks

(45:39–46:42)

• New $28.8 million trade exception for Memphis.
• Draft pick stockpile: Memphis now holds 13 firsts over the next seven years.
• Potential ripple: Could become a landing spot/facilitator in other mega-trades (Giannis, Morant, etc.)

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6. Tiered Player Debates: Unpacking the Top 80

a. Notable Omissions and Surprise Rises (12:00–32:33)

• Players left off include: Michael Porter Jr., Sabonis, Jared Allen, Jabari Smith, Herb Jones, and more.
• Honest appraisal: Some talented names just don't make sense in the current salary/impact context.

b. Group O – Grab Your Stock Now: Cheap Young Talent

• Names: Anthony Black, Ace Bailey, Peyton Watson, Tari Eason, Modest Bozellas, Donovan Clingan.
• House's pick: Eason—“he could be higher, but league's too deep.”

c. Group M – Valuable Assets on Horrific Contracts

• Embiid, Davis, Towns: Massive salaries define their trade value; Embiid is “back in the mix” after an unexpectedly healthy run, but availability always a concern.

Quote
"He has one leg. Don't forget about how he has one leg that works... But holy shit, is he an efficient shooter. Holy mother of God!"
—Joe House (48:39)

d. Most Controversial Debates

• Reed Shepherd inclusion/placement: House protests his ranking; Bill projects forward, citing Mark Price comparisons.
• Cooper Flag vs. Luka Dončić: Bill puts rookie Flag above Dončić, lauding his "player no one's seen before" skill set at age 19.

Quote
"This guy’s an elite offensive player already. If you actually watch those games, the shit he was doing was impossible."
—Bill Simmons (110:13)

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7. Lightning Round: Reaction to Rapid Fire Trades

(60:00–70:14)

• Mike Conley dumped by Wolves—hints at a bigger play (maybe Giannis).
• Real time speculation: Are Wolves prepping for a mega-deal?
• House: “Why would they trade a beloved teammate in Mike Conley?” (67:32)

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8. Closing Stretch: The Untouchables & Final Rankings

(101:47–116:16)

• Top 10: Steph, Giannis (“only if they MADE us do it”), Maxey, Cade, Luka, Flagg, SGA, Jokic, Wembanyama.
• Wembanyama consensus #1: Bill and House agree, with the caveat that you “bet on the generational freak.”
• Jokic, SGA, Ant Edwards complete the top 4.

Quote
"You have Victor Wembanyama first. Is he going to play 20 games in a row?... I'm cool betting on the seven-foot-seven guy, who's the generational freak."
—Bill Simmons (114:16)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the trade value obsession:
  “You're my list consigliere. My trade value consigliere. Have you put that on a resume?” (24:17)
• On Dylan Brooks’ rebirth:
  “Dylan Brooks being number 44 in a trade value list I think would have been 500 to 1 odds two years ago.” (76:06)
• On Reed Shepherd:
  “This is outrageous… He has no business… He shouldn't be on the list.”
  —Joe House (55:29)
• On Cooper Flag:
  “I cannot believe… how much better he is than he was at the start of the year.… This guy’s an elite offensive player already.” (110:13)
• On newly agile Anthony Edwards:
  “I think Sengun (over Holmgren) has the capacity to avoid injuries that keep him out for extended stretches.”
  —Joe House (99:23)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:36] Harden-Garland trade rumors and Clippers/Cavs logic
• [06:21] Bill’s personal take on watching Harden
• [15:34] Jaren Jackson Jr. to Utah trade breaks live
• [24:08] Simmons outlines Trade Value List methodology
• [45:39–46:42] Memphis acquires a massive trade exception
• [55:29] House’s passionate opposition to Reed Shepherd’s high ranking
• [66:26] Minnesota dumps Mike Conley; speculation about motives
• [101:47] Entry into the final 10 and untouchable tier
• [114:16] Wembanyama crowned as the #1 asset

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Tone, Language & Atmosphere

• Self-deprecating, conversational, and irreverent.
• Bill and House alternate between insider basketball nerdery and laugh-out-loud asides (like House locking his son out of the house, 71:16).
• Candid about player personalities, NBA economics, and darkly comic about rooting interests (“automatic calling the season ticket representative and saying, I've decided not to renew my tickets…”)

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For Those Who Haven’t Listened

This is one of the most jam-packed, insightful, and authentically fun NBA podcasts of the year. Simmons and House not only break down real-time breaking trades, but also provide a masterclass in how NBA front offices (and super fans) evaluate player value in a forever-evolving league. The banter, live reactions, and willingness to move players on the fly (and admit mistakes) make it both statistically rich and deeply human.

If you want to understand not just who’s good in the NBA, but why teams covet (or dump) certain players, this episode is a must-read/–listen.

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[End of Summary]

Transcript

[A]

This episode is brought to you by TaxAct. Like an expert coach, TaxAct offers step by step guidance and guaranteed accuracy when filing taxes. Get tips along the way. Add expert assist to talk to tax experts and let our experts do your taxes for you. With Expert full service, TaxAct helps you find the deductions and credits you deserve so you can get them over with. Visit taxact.com to learn more. Conditions apply. See taxact.com for details. All right, Live on Netflix. I can't speak live on Netflix. Bill Civitz here with Joe House. We are going to do our annual NBA Trade Value list podcast that we have been doing. The first one house December 2007, the first year I had a podcast on the worldwide leader and in that trade value list I think we ranked Carlos Boozer above Dirk nowitzki. And now 19 years later, Carlos Boozer's son, now about to be a top three pick in the NBA draft, could all comes around. And now we're on Netflix, a place that was mailing out DVDs to customers in 2007 and now we're doing a live podcast for Netflix and Spotify. Spotify existed in 2007, but look at this. We're just moving with the times. This is great. I will explain the trade value concept to everybody in a second, but we gotta talk about James Harden first. Yeah, James Harden.

[B]

News of the day we always get.

[A]

Everybody's like it's gonna be a slow trade. And then all of a sudden Saturday or Sunday, whatever day that was during the weekend was like James Harden not playing tonight. Personal reasons. Parentheses. It was like, oh, personal reasons. What does this mean? Are we about to do the dance with James Harden again? Then it leaks out. Chris Mannix reports yesterday there is a James Harden Darius Garland trade that's far down the road and might happen, might not. Now as we're recording this Tuesday 10:30pm feels like this trade is happening. What was your reaction when you heard that this trade was even a one for one possibility as we're working on the trade value list made sense.

[B]

To be honest. I got to see Cleveland this year up close and personal. Went to Wizards game and Darius Garland played which was great. Got to see him. I will tell you, you're the expert at the body language and all of the you have your PhD in analyzing team chemistry. But it was a time I was paying attention because I had really good seats. Thank you to our good friends. I'm not going to give a shout out actually. Just thank you to all of our good friends out there and the like, it was just not like a big bro hug kind of vibe coming out of out of Cleveland in general when I saw them. And I think this was in December. But you know, the guys were kind of all navigating their own paths is what I would say.

[A]

And I well, it's a car key situation, right? They somewhat easily coexisted last year, Garland and Mitchell. The team did really well. But now, you know, Garland's in year seven, Mitchell's got a new extension coming up. Garland has been repeatedly getting hurt. I want to talk about that in a second. I did want to remind people the Bill Simmons podcast brought to you by FanDuel. And it's the last call for football on FanDuel. One final Sunday, one last kickoff, the final chance to place your bets before the NFL season closes its tab. Because after the super bowl, the season's over, football's officially done and me and House are sad. Last call for football and FanDuel, an official sportsbook partner of Super Bowl 60s 21 in president select states or 18 in president D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut. So Garland, there's a durability thing with him that I think is factored into one thing about James Harden. The moods will go up and down. Maybe the weight will even go up and down a tiny bit. But he does play, he is out there, he is durable. Whereas Garland is not. And you can get out of his contract after the year. The shit detector in me, though, he had a trade kicker, 15% trade kicker. Cleveland is, yeah, Cleveland is over the second apron. So this deal works as a one for one. But if you put in the 15% trade kicker. Now, granted, we've only had these apron rules for a year and a half and they're like trying to figure out, trying to read Chinese or something. But I'm pretty sure the kicker would then make it impossible for Cleveland to do the deal. Which leads me to wonder, did they have to ask Cardin to waive the trade kicker? And he's like, well, why would I do that? Are you going to give me an extension? Both teams or one team? Both say, well, we can't give you an extension because the one year deal you signed, you can't get an extension until the summer. Then we move into wink wink category.

[B]

Oh boy.

[A]

Well, what if we wink winked an extension for the summer who knows? The other thing we don't know is who pushed for this trade. Did the Clippers do this and Harden found out? I theorized that Today he finds out, all of a sudden he's in a trade, he's mad he doesn't play or because the Clippers wouldn't give him an extension. Was he out scouting possible teams? Ended up with Cleveland and now they're just trying to figure it out. Which one would you bet on out of those two scenarios?

[B]

I think the latter. Although the whole wink wink thing, he doesn't have a great track record of that.

[A]

No, he said he's had a poor wink Wink history.

[B]

Daryl More, he is a liar.

[A]

Yeah, that's right. He called Daryl More he liar.

[B]

According to James Harden. Not me. James Harden.

[A]

Well, I'm proceeding like this trade is going to happen. And it's an interesting timing because the Clippers, at least by advanced metrics, were the best team in the league for the last 20 games. I don't think they actually were the best team in the league, but they were making a playoff run. They were going to be at least in the play in and probably in the playoffs. Gahau, our producer, is a big Quipper fan. And I'm going to assume this trade happens. And I just want to say this now. I don't want to jinx it. I'm so happy as a Clipper season ticket holder who has deliberately not been going to that many games, mostly because, all due respect, I'm sure he's a nice guy. I cannot stand watching James Harden. I can't stand it. I don't like it. I don't like driving 40 minutes to the Intuit Dome and then having to watch James Harden just have the ball all the time and fish for fouls. I just don't have a good time. It's not what I like.

[B]

So I'm kind of surprised to hear that. What do you mean?

[A]

You've known me for almost 40 years. How are you surprised? What part of James Harden's game would I be like, oh, I love. That's my kind of basketball?

[B]

Well, first of all, he does, you know, get his assists and especially, you know, the guys who, who will go to the rim. He and Zubach had a really nice pick and roll thing going and, and Zoo really elevated last season. I mean, the run that they went on and how they got to 50 games was in no small part because of that chemistry between Harden and Zoo. And then.

[A]

So you're driving 45 minutes back and forth to watch James Harden. That's what you're telling me. Let me do that 15 times a year.

[B]

Let me ask you this question. How many times have you seen Luka play live?

[A]

Luka's more fun to me because even though it's the same kind of monoculture basketball thing, but Luka brings in the added benefit of you get to try to figure out what mood he's in. He gets mad at people. He gets like really pissed at opponents and referees. It's almost like watching like my 6 year old son as an NBA superstar. You don't know when he's gonna throw a tantrum.

[B]

Does have a short fuse. It does take a fuse.

[A]

He'll take over a game for like eight minutes. And it's awes. Way more fascinated than him. And I, I think he makes sense in the context of the Lakers in la. Like he's a celebrity. Like your eyes gravitate to him. Okay, I just maybe have been watching James Harden for too long.

[B]

What about in the context of a winning basketball team? He did, he did drag a team to the finals and it really was the, the perfect kind of team.

[A]

Luca did.

[B]

Luca did. That's what I mean.

[A]

Yeah, I'm way more pro Luca than James Harden. I have a list for you. It's my least favorite good players to watch in the 21st century. We are now 25 least good players.

[B]

Okay, go ahead.

[A]

James Harden is my least favorite player to watch in person since Dwight Howard. I could see never, ever, ever enjoyed watching Dwight Howard. I see a good bit at him.

[B]

I can't remember. I feel, I think I left feeling neutral about him.

[A]

Remember we sat courtside for the super bowl in Indianapolis? Yes, that the Patriots fucking blue. We sat underneath the basket and it was right when Dwight Howard was becoming unhappy with his Orlando situation. Or maybe he was already unhappy and we got to watch him just ram into bodies and bang around and throw him stuff. Yeah, he was very physical. I don't know if I would have wanted to watch that 15 times. Steve Francis. Oh, putting him on here for my least favorite good players to watch. 21st century. The classic score. First point guard who has no interest in setting up anyone else in the team, but somehow gets all his stats. I have him.

[B]

I feel like this is going to be a theme.

[A]

No, your guy, Bradley Beal. Oh, I'm putting him on there. Yeah, Bradley Beal, last few years.

[B]

What do you want to say? I have nothing. I have nothing to say.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

What's crazy, I will say this. You know, there was a very nice Celebration of John Wall last week. John. John Wall's part of the prime team and they did a bobblehead for him. And I honestly think they may get around to retiring John Wall's jersey. But the curious thing is you can't retire both John Wall and Brad Beal. I mean, all that team did was get to the semis.

[A]

You're telling me you're going to retire John Wall's jersey? I think there's a chance. I think it's possible they should retire his. His cap, his amnesty clause, cap figure, whatever the hell they had to do. Who. Who should be the fifth player in this team? Harden, Dwight Howard, Steve Francis, Bradley Beal. I need a power forward.

[B]

Oh, well, I'm glad that. That you didn't say the guy who's going to. To absolutely be transformative for my Washington team next, next year. And that's Trae Young, who I was positive.

[A]

I don't mind watching Trey Young.

[B]

It's gonna come outta your mouth. Good. Thank you.

[A]

Wait, I need a power forward. Is there a power forward from over the years? It's just like Rasheed Wallace when he didn't care.

[B]

Well, no, that's Derek Coleman. Right. Like it's in that 90s, though.

[A]

I need this century.

[B]

Okay. This century. Somebod. Did you worry? I mean.

[A]

Oh, that's a great one. Josh Smith. That's my fifth. I'm gonna write him down. James Harden, Dwight Howard, Steve Francis, Bradley Beal and Josh Smith. That is an automatic. Calling the season ticket representative and saying, I've decided not to renew my tickets. Can I give you another? James Harden, last five weeks, 24 points a game, eight assists a game. Solid.

[B]

Good.

[A]

38% field goal, 29% three pointers.

[B]

Tough. It's tough.

[A]

Older player starts out hot, season goes along. Hmm. Now if he's on the Cavs, you have to do less.

[B]

I get the.

[A]

Mitchell has the ball a lot. I actually like the fit for him and the Cavs.

[B]

Me too. So. So explain to me Garland and the Clippers how that works because I get Harden and the Cavs and how that raises their ceiling and especially this run that they could go on if they could just. And maybe this little chemistry bit will be the tipping point for them. Help me understand Garland and the Clippers 10 years younger.

[A]

I'll just put it this way. If I told you in July when I don't know, remember if. Can't remember if the Clippers had signed James Harden yet. If I told you in July, there's really no market for James Harden. Other than one or two teams, he's going to sign a one year deal and in six months he's going to be traded straight up for Darius Garland. Your answer would have been no way. There's no way that's happening. Cleveland would never do that. Stop it. But I think Garland's stock has fallen a little bit. I think if you're the Clippers, it's a no brainer. You have a chance to get a younger asset. His deal's not bad. He's got three years left. He's represented by the Ringers. Rich, Paul. Hey, now I'm all in.

[B]

Listen to this.

[A]

No, but I, I, I've always loved Garland. I've always wanted to see him with car keys on his own team. And I actually like the fit with him in Kawhi and, and Zoo. And I don't know, I don't think they're going to, I don't think it's going to hurt the team this season that much if he's playing. The problem is you're, you're rolling the dice on his feet. And I think, what do we say? He wears New Balances.

[B]

Is that right? I don't know. I'll look at their picture and see what shoes he's in.

[A]

When players continue to have problems with feet and ankles, to me that's less about the player, more about the equipment. Most famously, Grant Hill wearing the Feliz is the worst example of this. But obviously he's got weird feet. I was talking before we came on, I have fat feet. It took me forever to realize I should wear the wide Nikes when I walk for 15,600.

[B]

Nikes are narrow. Nikes are perfect for my feet.

[A]

Yeah, Nikes are narrow. My feet are fat. And the Nikes would grind the sides of my feet and I would get blisters all over the place. They'd be like, oh, I have dumb feet. Why do I get so many blisters? It's like because I'm wearing the wrong shoes. Dumbass.

[B]

Yeah, it's your feet fault.

[A]

Yeah. It's not you. It's like very fixable. Let me throw one other thing with Cleveland because this will lead into the trade value thing that we're about to do. They are my, I still, I know there's a bunch of people who are like, giannis isn't getting, getting traded till this summer. That seems to be the consensus around the league.

[B]

I'm one of them.

[A]

I disagree because I think for a few teams this is their chance to grab a Giannis trade before it gets to the summer. And the Knicks, Cleveland has a better way to do it. Some other teams, it would just be easier to make trades in the summer and go after them. Teams will be less happy with you. Just. You're bringing more variables into it.

[B]

But that's good for Milwaukee.

[A]

It's good for Milwaukee, but it's also good for teams, you know, like a Cleveland. They're 13.8 over the second apron. When you're over the second apron, you can't package players to make trades. You can only trade one player out. Whatever you're getting back has to be less than that player or the trade's off. They're now because of stupid Vivek and the Kings once again, like doing something dumb to help out another team. The Kings trade for DeAndre Hunter and they send back Keon Ellison. Schroeder. It saves. Saves the Cavs. Oh, wow. We just got breaking news.

[B]

This is better than the trade deadline show.

[A]

This is the best. I'm having a great time.

[B]

We better start doing this show on Tuesdays. Wow. 30. This is the new thing.

[A]

So Jaren Jackson has been traded to the. Jaren Jackson has been traded to the Utah Jazz. What's the trade?

[B]

Marketing has to be involved, Right.

[A]

We might have to get Zach Lowe to come on this.

[B]

Great. Let's do it.

[A]

Love Zach. You should just text Zach if he's available. He should just pop on.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Holy mackerel. So what was the trade?

[B]

Marketing has to be involved, right?

[A]

Does he? I mean, they could do. Keep marketing. They have expirings and just trade a bunch of their picks.

[B]

What is Memphis doing? Memphis is. This is the full rebuild. So Morant. They'll get a bag of Cheetos from Morant now.

[A]

So Jaren Jackson's 35 million this year extension kicking in next year. Five years for 205 million.

[B]

It's fair.

[A]

Five years is also the number of rebounds per game he averages. You.

[B]

You. You really obsess over the number of rebounds that Triple J gets.

[A]

Yeah. Cause you didn't rebound. You weren't a great rebounder. You were. You were always.

[B]

I. I'm a perimeter player.

[A]

That's what Jared Jackson said. He's like, yo, can you grab some rebounds?

[B]

Me and Triple J back to Cleveland.

[A]

We'Ll find out what this trade was. But back to Cleveland for a second. So they got to get 13.8 million under the second apron. There's a bunch of teams with exceptions. They have Lonzo 10 million expiring Max Stru said 15. Kean Ellis at 2.3. They can get rid of some so they can actually get under the apron before Thursday, which would allow them to then do a Mobley and other stuff for Giannis and Kuzma, Whatever it takes. Would you trade Mobley for Giannis?

[B]

Maybe. Here's my reservation. And here is why I think we're waiting until the summer. Tell me the truth about Giannis's calf. Tell me the truth.

[A]

The truth. It's the truth. It seems to get tweaked a lot.

[B]

A lot. This is the problem. Is he going to play in the playoffs this upcoming season?

[A]

Well, he's not going to be in the playoffs. Oh, here we go. Here's the trade. Jaren Jackson, John Konchar, Jack Landell and Vince Williams Jr. I kind of like him for Walter Clayton Jr. Kyle Anderson, Taylor Hendricks, George Niang and three future first round picks, which I'm guessing are unprotected.

[B]

Wait, did you say Kessler?

[A]

No, I said.

[B]

You did not.

[A]

I did not. Well, he's out for the year, so. Man, that's interesting swing for Utah. I don't know if I love Jaren Jackson at 50 million a year, but that's just me.

[B]

That means they have a very strong conviction about Jaren Jackson and Laurie Markkanen playing together.

[A]

Do like that combo.

[B]

That's pretty interesting.

[A]

Who's rebounding on that team?

[B]

Kessler when he comes back next year. That's what I just asked.

[A]

The thing with Jaren Jackson is like he's a really good rim protecting center, but he needs to play next to a center, so I thought he was a center.

[B]

Something about Keonte George pushed them in this direction.

[A]

Right. There's something about it pushed Keonte George in a trade value direction too.

[B]

Well placed.

[A]

So Memphis, they trade Jaren Jackson, they get picks back last summer, they trade Desmond Bain, Would they get four firsts for him?

[B]

A whole bunch of picks? Yes.

[A]

And now they're going to try to stick John Moran on Vivek, which they'll probably succeed in doing. And that's just a full reboot for a team that I think the furthest they got was round two. And ironically, the guy they couldn't wait to get rid of first turned out to be the culture guy on their team, Dylan Brooks. Everybody was like, this guy's so immature. What's wrong with this guy?

[B]

In fairness to the team, he was, I'll just use the word, somewhat erratic. Not completely erratic.

[A]

No, he was erratic.

[B]

He was pretty erratic.

[A]

Nobody was like, wow, I can't believe they decided to move on from Dylan Brooks. Like he. But I think he's mature, dared them to. And he's a. He's turned it into being a really good like culture center for Phoenix. Like you look at Phoenix's team, we're doing trade value. I think we only have one. We have two sons, Booker and Brooks.

[B]

They didn't know.

[A]

Out of the entire list.

[B]

He didn't know. Somebody didn't know what kind of leader he could be. Maybe this was the.

[A]

Problem all along.

[B]

Nobody ever gave him the car keys. Let Dylan cook.

[A]

See, that's what was making him crazy. Nobody would give him the car keys. It's like me at espn. So the difference with this Jackson trade and when you were in a similar situation in D.C. with Bradley Beal.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Is they move fast to trade. Even before the extension kicked in to get the first round picks back.

[B]

How much are we allowed to curse on this show?

[A]

Well, the Wiz gave Bradley Beal the extension and people were like, that's weird. Jaren Jackson. The extension was much more defensible.

[B]

The extension wasn't the problem. I can curse, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It was the fucking no trade clause. It was the motherfucking no trade clause that was the problem. Giving him the car keys over whatever preferred destination he wanted and having to kowtow to a player that made 1/3 team, all NBA team once in his entire career. It gave him the benefit of that super extension. It only took one time under the previous collective bargaining agreement. So they had to pay him. Good God. I'm over it. I'm over it. I'm sorry. Let me take it down a notch.

[A]

We're going to talk about this super bowl for one second and then we're going to do trade value. Great. And the super bowl moment is brought to you by Mick Loeb, Ultra. It is now Tuesday. I've spent the last 48 hours studying all Drake May's shoulder footage, including him saying in the podium last night that he feels really good and it's turned the corner. He was carrying his bag coming up the plane. Just his demeanor. His shoulders didn't seem lopsided. I'm feeling good, House feeling great.

[B]

The compression in the plane, you know, the air is different. Maybe that's what helped. He said he got off the plane and immediately felt better.

[A]

Maybe his wonderful wife, the Queen of the north, was just giving him some shoulder massages and working out the kinks in the back. I don't think she's the Queen of the North.

[B]

Is she allowed on the Plane.

[A]

I think they have their own. They have a family plane.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

The line has not moved. Were you surprised? The line has not moved at all?

[B]

No.

[A]

That just tells us at four and a half.

[B]

That tells us the story. If he was hurt, lie would have moved. It would have moved. Sunday, it hasn't moved.

[A]

So Thursday I'm doing a trade deadline special live with Zach Lowe on Netflix. We are going to record a Super bowl segment with our picks that's going to run at the end of that.

[B]

You and I. Yeah, we're going to.

[A]

Do that either Wednesday. We're recorded tomorrow. I'd rather get it closer to the game as possible because if there's footage of Drake may just throwing ducks and wobblers, maybe that'll affect the line. Who knows? Anyway, that is the super bowl brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Let's do it. And once we get more info on that Jaren Jackson trade, we'll pop in.

[B]

But it's the trade deadline show.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. It turned into like borderline trade value. So for the people who don't know, I've been doing this trade value gimmick since I had my old website before I got to espn. And the concept is ranking the players from. However, the highest number is to one based on who is the most untradeable player in the league. And we've been doing that. I started writing this as a column when I got my podcast in 07. We started doing the annual podcast every year to try. You helped me figure out the list. You're my list. Conciliary. My trade value. Conciliary. Have you put that on a resume? Put it on your LinkedIn. Trade value conciliary 2007 to 2026. Here are the rules. Trade value. It's really important we follow these rules. Rule number one. Salaries matter. Which matters more than ever in this goofy apron era. We're in the apron is terrifying to everybody. Rule number two, Age matters. So this is like a James Harden, Darius Garland thing. Darius Garland's 26. James Harden's 36. Which guy would you rather want to have? Contract length matters. This mattered more in the 2000s when we had guys getting seven year deals. Remember that era? You had a couple bad ones. I think you're still paying Gobert Arenas.

[B]

Probably.

[A]

Contracting matters. Rule number four, Happiness matters. So does durability. Conflicting for James Harden fans here. Durable guy. Many times unhappy. We've seen this multiple times in the know. Rule number five. Bizarre. Real life trade should affect the list. So if you think Somebody is this trade asset, and they were given away for 30 cents on the dollar, aka Trey Young. That was like 20 cents a dollar.

[B]

Trey Young.

[A]

But I'm saying, like, Trey Young's a good example. That trade told us what his trade value was.

[B]

There's no example that will ever surpass Luca. I mean, it will have to forever cope with that.

[A]

So you think that affects the list.

[B]

Or is that like an outlier affects the concept? It is the all time outlier. It is the.

[A]

Yeah, See, I think that's an outlier. I don't think. I think that was a unique once.

[B]

In a lifetime event to its knees because one first round draft pick and it was infinitely, permanently hurt.

[A]

But a lot of Max Christie moving right now. And then rule number six, concentrate on degrees. And we're going to talk about this over and over again. Two guys that are close together and basically, and this is one of the things House does as my trade value conciliary. I call you and I say, you're Utah and I'm the Pelicans, and I call you and I say, what about Trey Murphy for Lori Marketing? Straight up, which side deliberates longer, has a longer meeting. If somebody's like, no way we're doing that and it hangs up, that means that side probably has more trade value. So you just have to think about it in that context of, obviously Wemby's not getting traded for Jokic, but if San Antonio and Denver had that phone call, how does it unfold? Who's more likely to say, that's ridiculous. We're not doing that. Or Denver going, we can't do that. Jokic is our guy. But Wemby's available and they're going to actually trade him. Probably a longer meeting on the Denver side, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Joker's older. So anyway, that's. That's the thing. Okay. We have a top 80 this year, House. It's the biggest list we've ever had. I think you remember the days in the late 2000s when we had 40 guys. We could barely get to 40. We had to pad it with like Chris Kamen, guys that missed the cut. Just quickly. Zachary Ricochet, Josh Hart, Tyler Hero, Naz reed, Michael Porter Jr. Cam Johnson. Any of those names surprise you so far, kind of.

[B]

Michael Porter Jr. Because he seems fit to be traded, and he seems to be in a position where he could actually Fetch Decent assets.

[A]

40 million this year, 37 next year. And has not played defense, I don't think, since 11th grade. That would be a team.

[B]

Right. Situation.

[A]

Okay. All Right. So that's your first. He's going to stay there. Cam Johnson. Demontes Sabonis really surprised me. He didn't even make the toughest omissions list, but just had this huge extension kicked in. The advanced metrics are terrible for him and his team seems to lose when he plays and he's older. I don't see a case for him.

[B]

I would say free Sabonis. I'd love to see him play on a decent team where we could. I mean, remember the double double machine he was as recently as like last year. I mean, he can. He could definitely play and he can definitely be a winning basketball player in the right circumstance. This unfortunately is not it.

[A]

Jared Allen, who would have made the list last year and probably did, but has this big 30 million a year extension kick again next year. And I think Cleveland would probably be delighted to get off of that and get a cheaper big man. Igor Demin. I screwed that up. No, I know. It's a demon. I always call him.

[B]

You could call him.

[A]

I'm actually. I like him a little more than I did when I saw him in person, but he. There's maybe something there. We'll see. Herb Jones, Aaron Neesmith, Khalil Ware, who doesn't really play anymore. And I also think could have been on this list a month ago.

[B]

So what is weird is, you know, he and Kaminga, two guys who came in with all of the like, oh, wow, there could be something here. These guys could grow into players. Ware drafted much further back than Kaminga, right?

[A]

No, Ware was in the middle of the lottery, basically.

[B]

Right? Yeah.

[A]

So what's your point?

[B]

Just the weird falling out of favor with coaches that we trust. We tend to trust Spoelstra and we tend to trust.

[A]

Right. Maybe it's a tough love approach.

[B]

It didn't really work with Kaminga.

[A]

No.

[B]

Does it think it's going to work?

[A]

I'm going to say it did not work with Kaminga. I'm going to say it decidedly did not work. Isaiah Hartenstein's on here. He's paid a lot. He's like 29 million. And I think it's a team option next year, so they can grab it.

[B]

Worth every penny.

[A]

I like them, but I'm just saying, like that's.

[B]

They won the title because of him.

[A]

But the center position, I think teams are usually looking for that 15 to 20 million range, not 30 miles. Bridges, Christian Braun, Shayden Sharpe. My guy, Scoot Henderson. I'll still buy all your stock. I know the stock for Scoot is lower, but it is what it is. Kobe White. He's on his last year of his deal and probably getting paid next year. So that's why he's not in there. Okay, Toughest omissions. So we have 12 guys for this list. The first one is a Wizard.

[B]

Let me tell you.

[A]

Kaishan George.

[B]

Keyshawn George.

[A]

Yes, Keyshawn George. I called him Kaishawn George. Keyshawn George. I don't think I've watched the Wizards game with the announcers. I just see them on the bottom left TV and I have no idea how to pronounce any of their names.

[B]

Respectfully, it's hit or miss with the local broadcast group. But I will say this. This dude can flat out play. He can absolutely. He could be a scorers, he could definitely hit threes. He's tough, he's super young and he's not yet reached the full potential of how strong he's. He can be. And when that comes in, he, it's. He's going to be a force. He, he absolutely. They, they. When they want to win games. He's on the floor in the fourth quarter and he makes good decisions.

[A]

Nikhil Alexander Walker.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Who has been a great signing for Atlanta and is averaging almost 20 game. Devin Vassell on San Antonio, a little pricey. He's like around 27. Alex Caruso, great glue guy, little older, 32. He's got a new deal. It's like 20 million a year for a few more years. But I found it hard to believe he couldn't crack the list. Jalen Suggs, who I really like and so do you, but fatter contract now and doesn't seem to be able to play more than 10 straight games.

[B]

We don't like that.

[A]

First rando. Colin Murray Boyles, you aware of his work in Toronto? Yeah.

[B]

He's an elemental part of their success. He's part of the overall depth that that team has that makes this version of them successful. He can play. They wouldn't trade him. Really?

[A]

Really Elite. Elite. Elite defensive shit going on with him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And just the kind of guy you need. And he's on a rookie contract. I put Luke Cornette on the list.

[B]

No, that's just you. You did that.

[A]

He's 10 million a year. Would you rather pay Luke Cornet 10 million a year or Jared Allen 30? You have that same contest.

[B]

I mean, I guess you couldn't figure it out in Boston, how to keep him.

[A]

Well, they didn't want to spend the money. Jabari Smith, I'm just Going to go down on the ship with. I just like him. I think he's kind of criminally misused on this team because they have so many assets and they just kind of tell him to stand in the corner. I think there's so much more there.

[B]

I don't like him.

[A]

If I was a gm, I'd be trying to trade for him constantly.

[B]

If they don't do anything by the end of the day Thursday, I am jumping into their regular wins market. The season total, it's 53 and a half right now, and I am hammering the under. I am going to buy so much under on the rockets at 53 and a half if they don't do anything on the trade deadline.

[A]

I watched them play Indiana last night. There wasn't a lot of basketball on last night. Just feels like everything's a grind with them now that they don't have that. They had that Steven Adams offensive rebounding wrinkle that made them invincible sometimes, and now they don't have it. And they feel gettable every game.

[B]

Their fourth quarters are not good.

[A]

So their regular season wins. Now it's still. Oh, it's 53 and a half now.

[B]

That's what I mean. Yeah. If it stays there at the trade deadline, I am buying a big chunk of under.

[A]

Can I interest you at all in Utah? 24 and a half or an over? Under? I think they're going to go over right now. They are.

[B]

Well, it's not. Can you still.

[A]

They're 15 and 35 now. There's 32 games left, so they'd have to go 9 and 10 and 10 and 22 to hit it.

[B]

How many games is Triple J gonna play?

[A]

I don't know. Do they. Did they ice them?

[B]

They are. They. They will ice somebody in a heartbeat. I mean, the things they come up with.

[A]

That's a team for him to go to, by the way. Well, I'd love when Kessler comes back with marketing, if they get anything from Ace Bailey. They have a point guard, they have cap space and draft picks to get more stuff. Like, I don't mind that.

[B]

Will Hardy.

[A]

I'm talking myself in that trade.

[B]

Yeah, we'll see if the picks are.

[A]

Unprotected, because I want to see if the picks are unprotected. If they're unprotected, that would make me a little more nervous. Okay. Moussa Diabate on the Hornets.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I don't know if you're familiar with his work lately, but there's like some of the most insane plus minus stats of 5, band lineups and eye test, too.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That's what just exactly kind of what they needed. Hugo Gonzalez, who has the best plus minus, I think, of any rookie in the last five years and is only like six months older than my son and comes in and swings games and is an absolute man and a maniac, and I love him. And if they ended up somehow out of nowhere doing Giannis trade and he was in it, I'd be bummed out. And then I'd be like, giannis is on the team. I'll get over it. Tamani Kamara and Trey Johnson is our last, toughest omission. I put him on there for you.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Do you think Trey Johnson had a case to be in the top 80?

[B]

No, not yet. He might get there. He can shoot, he works super hard. Perfect character guy. Let's see this rising stars thing. I want to see how he is playing with his beers.

[A]

That's the first time that sentence has ever been said.

[B]

Okay, I'm still learning.

[A]

My team top 80. We separate them into tiers, going from 80 to one and group oh, it's going by letters. I don't remember us getting an O before. O is a lot. Jesus.

[B]

It's a lot of guys.

[A]

Group O is called Grab youb Stock now, and it's all cheap guys. It's number 80, Anthony Black, 79. Ace Bailey. Number 78, Peyton Watson. Look at you jumping in out of nowhere and is an rfa. So they're actually going to have to pay in the summer. Tari Eason, who I'm never going to give up on. And it's actually been playing Modest Bozellas and Donovan Qulingan at 75. So black, Bailey, Watson, Eason, Bezoas and Clingan. Who's your favorite out of all those guys?

[B]

It's Eason. And I tried to come up with a case to push him further up that he would fetch more in value than where he is right now. I couldn't get there and the league's too deep. And, you know, again, he is one of the guys on Houston when there's, you know, seven minutes left and their opponent is closing the gap. Closing the gap. Closing the gap. Yeah. On the offensive end, he's not doing anything to help stave that off.

[A]

Yeah, I think that's a good point. I will say all six of these guys I really like for different reasons.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

I don't know what Bailey is, but he's. Clearly there's something there. I have no idea what's there, but something's there. Black's been playing really well recently, like the last five weeks. Watson's been a revelation since Joker went out. And I'm still in ambuzzois. I like him. I like his game. He's so young.

[B]

Why do you say it that way? Still in. Why would you be out?

[A]

Sometimes it seems like the Bulls aren't in on him. There's games where he'll just like disappear from the game.

[B]

Well, you just can't. I don't think we can take any. Draw any inferences from anything the Bulls do.

[A]

That's very fair. And then Clingan is just a badass. He really is. Like, he. He killed the Celtics last month, like really, like kind of destroyed them and took the game over.

[B]

So Portland and Washington played and there is definitely last week. There is some kind of rivalry thing between him and Sar. And they were talking and Keyshawn George was really the animating force. They were talking so much shit to Klingon the whole game. And they was physical. I couldn't have enjoyed it more. And Denny, you know, Denny Abdia is motivated. Former Wiz, former whiz. Yeah, it was a really fun game. Washington, Portland, super underrated.

[A]

Clingan's really competitive and kind of kind of talks his shit a little bit.

[B]

Sure does.

[A]

And tries to intimidate. I really like him. I think he's good. I almost wanted to put him like 15 spots higher next to Alex Sar in that group, but I couldn't quite get there because I'm not sure about the health of them. Okay, next group. So those are all rookie contract guys, which are the easiest, best commodities, especially in the apron era. Next group is group N. Valuable assets on okay contracts. These aren't bad contracts. They're not great. Number 74, Dyson Daniels. He just signed an extension for 4 for 100. I liked him more last year and I've watched a lot of Hawks. I have some overs with them, and there's just. They've never been able to put their shit together. And it doesn't feel like he's better than he was last year, which I would've assumed he would be better than he was last year, but he's not.

[B]

We've been on the wrong side of.

[A]

The Hawks every year.

[B]

What feels like they're like the Steelers.

[A]

For us in NFL for basketball. Anyway, I can't give up on him because he's too good of a. His. His hands on defense are just unlike anything. James Harden, number 73, 39 million this year, $42 million player option. And I gotta be honest, he wasn't on this list until two days ago when the Garland stuff started. Because that, I think, made both of us realize, oh, yeah, I guess he still has the value because of the stats. So he's there. Brandon Ingram, number 72. He's on a 3 for 120 deal. Still can't believe my guy Rich Paul pulled that one off.

[B]

He helps stabilize Toronto.

[A]

Unbelievable contract, though.

[B]

Toronto's going to get, you know, like a. Like a five seed, six seat in the East.

[A]

Yeah, we'll see.

[B]

They're competitive.

[A]

Mikhail Bridges, number 71. He is 24 million this year. And then it kicks into a 4 million 150. 50 million extension. I mean, he's kind of taking the hits on this team. Doesn't have the ball a ton. Their defense has been really good for the last two weeks. And all the Knicks fans I know are like, shit's happening. Mike Brown finally figured it out. They're not playing Clarkson, and he's a piece of that. But this feels the right. The right range for him, right?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, he's tough to know what exactly to do with because there is to be.

[A]

Because, like on the Wizards, he'd probably have the ball a lot more and be more fun to watch.

[B]

He also really could be, um. He's so tough. He could be, you know, that enforcer kind of role for a team that wants to play physical. Like, if he was on Houston, I think he could be an absolute force for them.

[A]

Norm Powell is number 70. Interesting one because he's 20 million this year and then he's a free agent. And I don't know whether that helps or hurts. Trade value. I feel like it probably hurts.

[B]

How old is Norm Powell now? This is the.

[A]

I think, yeah, I'm going to say he's like 33 or 34.

[B]

Okay, 33.

[A]

Why do you ask?

[B]

Well, because he, by the numbers, is having a better shooting season for the Heat than he did last year for the Clippers. And the Clippers really missed him at the beginning of the season. I think that was the one ingredient, more than any other ingredient that led to them only winning four games.

[A]

John Collins has been. Yeah, John Collins has been okay now, but now, yeah, you're right.

[B]

Like in the first 25 games, the Clippers were a disaster. And I think a big part of that is because they missed Norm Powell. And Norm Powell has been good. He scored well.

[A]

You're right. He's 33 next year. Josh Giddey's number 69. He's 4 for 100. Right contract for him. Right team. I'm not sure if you're trying to win a title. I'm not sure what number in the pecking order is, but he's probably fourth. I would say you probably have to have three guys better than him on the team to win a title.

[B]

Two or three guys, yeah.

[A]

Desmond Bay, number 68. He's five year, $197 million deal. So I'm dinging him for that. That's pretty pricey. Rudy Gobert, number 67, redid his deal. It's now three for 109. There's just not a lot of him and I'd rather have him than Jared Allen if we're paying roughly around the same money. Jaden McDaniels, 44108. He's number 66. Darius Garland, number 65. Three for 126. Interesting that he's 65. Harden is 73. And yet they're being traded straight up. Obviously I can't tell teams what to do, but that's how I have them ranked. And then Lou Dort is number 64. He's 18 this year, 18 next year. And House just signed with clutch.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

So OKC is the team option for him next year at 18, but now he's with Klutch. I think Lou Dort is a. I'm not saying they're going to trade him in the next two days, but you have to think about it. If you're presti. Because you're not going to pay him. You're paying. You have three max guys, basically, you're not going to pay Lou Dort 30 million a year. You have Kayson, Wallace, who can probably take some of his minutes. So I'm just. If OKC did something, I think he's involved. Right.

[B]

Makes perfect sense. And this is exactly. It was either this trade deadline or this coming summer when folks anticipated that he would. He would have to go. I mean, that's the sacrifice the team's going to have to make. And it's. It's fair. He helped them win a ring. That was awesome. They won a ring.

[A]

He did his job.

[B]

He did his job.

[A]

Everything else is gravy. So group N, Daniels, Harden, Ingram, Bridges, Powell, Giddy, Bane, Gobert, McDaniels, Garland and Lou Dort. That's from 74 to 64. I'll do. We're going to take a break, but I got one more quick group. Ah, now let's save it. The group's called Valuable Assets on Horrific Contracts. And we're going to do it right after this break. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by fanduel. Last Call for Football Sad fanduel is giving you a daily profit boost every single day leading up to Super Bowl 60. Today's 30% profit boost is on over, under and alternate rushing yard props. Check back each day for a new daily boost because Fando's giving everyone something extra to cheer for during football's final week. Play your game with FanDuel, official sportsbook partner of Super Bowl 60. You must be 21 President in select states or 18 in President, D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Opt in required bonus issued as non withdrawable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply including any token expiration max wager amount. See [e-mail] gam prom call 100 gambler or visit rg-help.com call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chadinconeticut this episode is brought to you by Uber Eats, which has become a good friend to me during the football season. Big news. Aldi is now on Uber Eats and you get 20% off your first grocery order with code Newaldi 26A L D I to 6. So whether your fridge is empty or you're too tired to shop or you just ran out of essential ingredients in the middle of meal prep, don't worry. Fill your fridge in just a few taps and get 20% off your first Aldi order on Uber Eats. For orders over $60. You can save up to $20. Ends February 28th. Terms apply. See app for details. All right, before we next is get group. We have some Jaron Jackson stuff that we found out about the trade thanks to the reporter Shams Sharania and Bobby marks as well. Two things I want to point out. One, Sean says the Grizzlies now have a $28.8 million trade exception that they've created in this deal.

[B]

Oh, interesting. Yeah, interesting.

[A]

You know who makes $27.5 million? Who? Anfernee Sim.

[B]

Congrats.

[A]

If the Celts just wanted to get under the tax and punt on this year I have a chance. You have much of other players too that could fit into that so they become so if Cleveland wanted to.

[B]

I.

[A]

Don'T know, will you take Lonzo Ball and Max Druce from us and we'll do two swaps with you and whatever and then they can get under the and go for Giannis So the Grizzlies who we didn't even know were going to factor into this trade deadline now. A huge factor. Bobby Marks also says Memphis now has 13 firsts over the next seven years.

[B]

Yes, they do.

[A]

And we still don't know exactly what the firsts are, unfortunately. But I assume they're unprotected.

[B]

They're not in the Giannis market. Right.

[A]

Utah.

[B]

No.

[A]

Memphis or Memphis?

[B]

Memphis. No.

[A]

Why would he want to go there?

[B]

Well, does he really have a choice? Doesn't have a no trade.

[A]

You follow the NBA. What do you mean? They had that send people to teams.

[B]

That's why I understand they would offer him the extension I get.

[A]

He's not going to Memphis. Stop it.

[B]

House.

[A]

You know where else is not going? Washington.

[B]

I never thought about it.

[A]

Group M valuable assets on horrific contracts. There's three people here. Karl Anthony Towns, Anthony Davis and Joel Embiid. From 6362 to 61, Embiid is 4 for 243. Davis is a max guy with an extension possibly coming. And then towns gets into the 60s after a couple years. Kudos to Embiid for working his way back in the trade value list. I think the odds were like 30 to 1 five weeks ago. Right.

[B]

It is bizarre the kind of luck that Philadelphia has has fallen into here because going into this season, you know, and I won't express it purely in terms of win totals, but they were just throw up your hands. What the hell could they possibly be team.

[A]

Yeah, we said they had no ceiling and no floor.

[B]

What's the best case scenario? Well, it turns out BJ Edgecomb can immediately come in and form a backcourt with backseat that looks like one of the best backcourts in the entire NBA. You know, in the mix top five backcourt and make them competitive in a. In an east that's up for grabs. So that all they need out of embiid is like 15 to 20 minutes. And then it turns out that that 15 to 20 minutes that they're asking for from him coincides with him. He's in great shape. Like his. His body is in. You know, in terms of the overall size. He's not carrying around the extra weight. Now he moves crazy slow and you know the.

[A]

He has one leg. Don't forget about how he has one leg. That works.

[B]

But holy shit, is he an efficient shooter. Holy mother of God.

[A]

That's what Lex said last week.

[B]

22 minutes. I have 40 points.

[A]

He's one of the best pure shooters in recent league history. Now every shot just goes in when it hits the Room and goes out. You're shocked. You know, Obviously it's a 20 game sample size where he's been healthy. I hope it stays. I'd rather have more good basketball players than less. I just, you know, anytime he falls down, you think the worst, right? He's just. I guess that's just who he's going to be for the rest of his career. But I thought at the start of the season that this was inconceivable. He does have Drew Hanlon talking a lot of shit on Twitter, which he should squash. Drew Hanlon, his shooting coach, just. He's doing a lot of chirping. It's like, let's see Embiid play 50 games in a year before. Before the chirping starts. Like, just. I.

[B]

We're not doing the victory lap yet.

[A]

It's like talking during the no hitter. Drew Hanlon, he's like yelling at the ringer. We had him 31st in the ringer, 100. Drew Hanlon's like, oh, my God. It's like the dude hasn't played 40 games since 20, 23. Where do you want us to rank him? So let's see him get to 50 games and drew Hanlon should mute himself.

[B]

I wondered if we were going to get a combo deal with the Paul George, that Joel Embiid and Paul George together shared whatever substance so that 25 games closer to the playoffs so that they're both healthy coming into the playoffs.

[A]

Oh, that's interesting. A fake. A fake jet and then they just pay him money at the table.

[B]

He could just take whatever the thing is, he could have.

[A]

He's like, what is that? Paul George did not make the trade value list. So Towns 63, Davis 62 and Bead 61. If the Knicks offered Carl Anthony Towns to the Sixers for Joel Embiid, I think the Sixers would say no. Right? Official trade value. Yeah, I think they say no. Right.

[B]

I don't know how many years are left on that MB extension.

[A]

He's four for 243.

[B]

What's left on the.

[A]

This is year one. Towns has three left and it's like over 180. I can't even remember. It's not great.

[B]

Towns is a better bargain.

[A]

No, he's really not. I'll read you the numbers.

[B]

It's less years.

[A]

No, it's not. Because it goes. Oh, yeah, it's one less year, but it's 53, 57, 61. Okay, but what's Joel, he's won last year. So you think Town should Be above Joel because this is why you're the conciliary.

[B]

They're in the group. I mean, I think all three make sense. It's funny because we have tons of trade rumors about Carl Anthony Towns and Anthony Davis. You know, those two teams trying to find. This is the reporting that's out there and it's been out there for a while. You know, the weird chemistry of Towns with this Knicks team, with Mike Brown's offense, you know, trying to find his place. And Davis was going to go to Atlanta, by all indications.

[A]

And then he had his 14th injury in the last nine years.

[B]

Yes, exactly. Defense wins championships.

[A]

All right, now we're hitting a really fun stretch here. This is group L. We're not even in the top 10 letters yet. Group L. Valuable assets on great contracts. Number 60, your guy Alex Saar can.

[B]

Definitely play the Wiz did not miss with that number two pick overall.

[A]

So in a redraft, is he above Castle or no?

[B]

It depends on the team drafting. If it's is Atlanta, I still have.

[A]

Castle above him, but I like Saar. I think SAR is a legit guy.

[B]

Yeah. If Atlanta's drafting number one, I think that they might have taken. It would have accelerated what they had to do with Trey Young if they took Castle. Right. I don't know if that's a thing that they could have coexisted.

[A]

So you're in so out of like. All right, let's say since we graduated college, young guys the Wizards have had. So I'm going to say 22 and under guys the Wizards have had. Has anyone been better than him? Because you got to read us a little bit later, was John Wall. John Wall better than him?

[B]

He was pretty effing good.

[A]

Was Bill better than him? Young Bill. Young Bill was great.

[B]

Yeah. Young. Young Beal was on an arc where. The thing is, both those guys arrived in the NBA. I think a little bit older than Sar. I think Sar is still a light. A little bit younger.

[A]

I thought he was 20. So he has three things that are just home runs. You know, they're going to translate to the next 15 years. He can already shoot threes for real.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Right. He's a really, really good three point shooter for his size for sure. He's a rim protector already. I think he's over two blocks a game, but he's at least as aware. Hey, that's the rim. The other team's trying to score in it. Let me try to stop him also, like, he's a pretty good one on one defender. Like when he gets. I can't believe I've watched the Wiz enough to even have an opinion on.

[B]

This, but they're kind of fun.

[A]

If they switch and he has to guard a smaller player, I feel like he can guard the smaller player. Like if he's in space one on one, he can actually, like, defend.

[B]

He moves great.

[A]

I like him.

[B]

He moves great. His feet are great. For a seven footer, he might be too.

[A]

He might should be lower than 60 and maybe, I don't know. We'll go through the rest. Number 59, Andrew Nemhard, who is 3 for 59 as a contract and is just a proven. I've seen him in the finals. You can win a title if he's one of the guys that's out there and you and I value that the most. Same for this next guy. Kayson Wallace. He's number 58, still in a rookie contract. They're going to have to pay him soon. I'm sure the Lou Dort money goes to him. I want to see when he's playing 32, 33 minutes a game. What do we got? Is there a little more offense there? Can you run offense through him? Is he just a dork? Caruso, I'm going to be over here and I'm going to be a pit bull on defense, and that's who I am. But I obviously work. I'm a huge fan. Huge fan. Okay, this is a good battle here. Number 57 and number 56, Reed shepherd and Keonte George. I wanted to have Reed shepherd hired. You threw your body in front of it because I think I like him the most because he reminds me of Mark Price so much. I almost. I can't. Mark Price, you and I are one of our most beloved 90s players. We love it.

[B]

He came to Washington and then had a foot injury that he never recovered from. But I was so excited when he came to Washington.

[A]

He was so excited to have his.

[B]

Jersey and then he never played. We signed him, he broke his foot and that was it.

[A]

God damn. I love Reed Shepherd. He does so many things I like. I want him. I want him to be considered for the 28 Olympic team.

[B]

This is ludicrous.

[A]

His threes.

[B]

This is outrageous.

[A]

His fast breaks.

[B]

It's an outrage.

[A]

What's an outrage?

[B]

He shouldn't be on the list. He should have been a tough omission at best. He could have easily not made the cut. He's definitely a tough omission. He has no business how's.

[A]

He's like 20.

[B]

No business. Whatsoever. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. He can't play 25 minutes a game on his, on the team that drafted him and he couldn't, he couldn't play last year.

[A]

So you think I should move him into the 70s?

[B]

I think he, he should be a tough omission. I don't think he's ahead of any of these guys.

[A]

Thank God.

[B]

How is he ahead of Anthony Black? How's he ahead of Terry Easton? He's not.

[A]

Those guys are about to all get paid though. He's on year two of a rookie deal playing real minutes and crunch time and stuff.

[B]

All I'm suggesting is the tapping of the brakes. He does play real minutes at crunch time sometimes, not all the time. I mean it could be the case that IME is the most limiting factor on what he's capable of.

[A]

Yeah, I'm going to embrace that. I might just have. So he's shooting 38% from 3 already this year. He's averaging 12 and 3. I think maybe Kyle Mann, we just text too much about him and that might be messing with my brain on it. I'm all in on Reed Shepherd.

[B]

Kyle Mann can text me and I want to have the kids. He's not in my top 80.

[A]

Would you have. So you'd have. You wouldn't trade Sar for him ever?

[B]

Oh my God. What? What?

[A]

All right, you know what? I'm going to move Sar above him. That's fine. I'm going to give you that. I'll move Sar above these next season.

[B]

All these guys should be above. Andrew Nemahardt played in important minutes in the effing finals.

[A]

I'm projecting five years from now for Shepard. I think he's going to go look at Mark Price's early stats.

[B]

That is some kind of rose colored projection.

[A]

Stockton barely played as a rookie. I'm just listing white guys. Number 56, Keonti George, who I guess is now number 57, Kiante George, who's averaging 24 a game for Utah and has been so good that they just mortgaged some of the future for Jaren Jackson.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because I don't think they were expecting his timetable to advance like this. And it's interesting. I'm not positive I'd want to play with him. I've said this on earlier pods. I'm not sure it would be the most fun experience ever to be like a swing or a big on his team. But I also like in a close game in the last minute I feel like he's going to get to the basket or get a good shot. Like, he's. He's just really tough to defend. And I think he's a gamer, too. And I don't know if this is too high or too low.

[B]

When they stop messing around and start playing serious and, like, actually try and win games in Utah, he's going to be an effing revelation. The league is going to put the league on notice. He might. He. He's capable of, you know, 28 to 30 points a night. No two ways about it.

[A]

So you want to move Reed shepherd all the way up into the group with Taris and Buzelus and Quingen. That's your conciliary recommendation?

[B]

I push them all.

[A]

I'm going to do this. I'm going to give you this one. No, I'm not making the toughest omission. I'll make him number 74.

[B]

Fine.

[A]

And we'll figure out when I. We're going to run this.

[B]

Yeah. You want to put him in the same place as Donovan Clingan, then I can't argue with that. That's fine. That's fine.

[A]

That's fine. That's fine. You got a w. Congrats. Now, Reed shepherd, anytime he does well, I can text you about it.

[B]

I love him. I think he's amazing.

[A]

Obviously not. You don't love him enough to fight for him in the top 60.

[B]

It's outrageous.

[A]

Number 55, Usar Thompson.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Kind of the.

[B]

The best record in the east. Very important player on that team.

[A]

Interesting. Not as good as his brother, but still really valuable.

[B]

Super valuable. It's funny that that the limitations that we see out of both of those guys were exactly the limitations. If, like, read their draft profile coming in, you know, incredible athletes. This is super dynamic, capable.

[A]

They're like the Nader sisters. Like, you just. You can't tell them apart. They all have the same weaknesses and strengths.

[B]

They can guard one. They can guard one through five. It's. It's really amazing. Neither one can shoot. Who's. Who do you think will be able to shoot first? I mean, Amin has the green light, so Amin is. Is ahead of Oscar.

[A]

I think he. I think Amin has the. He's more of a bag already. Like, you can actually give him the ball. Like, Lego was talking last week about how he wished he posted up more. Oh, that's.

[B]

It was such a great point. I loved hearing that.

[A]

I like when they spread the floor for him and he just goes one on one. I don't think his brother can do some of that. Stuff.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Also Houston's Thompson, probably the best defensive non center in the league right now. Would you say he's number one? Who's better than him?

[B]

Non def? Oh no, no. For sure. I have him. I have a ticket for defensive player of the year on him.

[A]

Number 54, Isaiah Stewart. Three for 45. I test. Great. The advanced metrics are unbelievable with him. He's the best rim protection guy in the league. He's better than Wembanyama and people like that. He's by far the best rim protection guy. And Peyton Pritchard at number 53, who I think has the single best contract in the league. That's a non rookie contract other than Denny Peyton. Pritchard is basically making $7 million a year. His contract is three years for $23.3 million. It's just nuts.

[B]

I want America to know I seriously considered trying to mount a vigorous case for not having Prichard here. Yeah, because you know America well.

[A]

Be careful. You're going to a Celtic game on Friday night. The Boston fans are watching this right now.

[B]

They expect you to have him here. America expects you to have him. You know, damn near the top 50 in the entire league. The problem is this Celtics team is surpassing all expectations and he is so important to them and the money is insane. 3 years for 23 million is crazy.

[A]

I didn't do this on the pod, but I'm going to do it in my final list. The ringer. I have a 13th guy for toughest admissions, but I didn't want to put him in on the podcast because you were going to laugh. But I have Kate as the toughest omission. I just was hiding it from you until Thursday.

[B]

I'm glad you did.

[A]

Kate has been a revelation too. He's been unbelievable. But yeah, Pritchard, he's the third best guy in a team that's basically the two seed or two or three seed and has the second rated offense in the league. And he's a crazy one on one player. There's also good stats on this too. But I test wise can beat guys off the dribble. And then has this, this new TJ McConnell, this new revolution of guards under the rim that can do these herky jerky double up fakes.

[B]

So TJ McConnell doesn't appear anywhere in any of this? No, because he's not playing.

[A]

Yeah, I think his body is finally one too many charges. So that's the group. So we moved Shepard into the 70s, which leaves us with Nemhard, Wallace, Chianti, George Alex Saar, Thompson Stewart and Peyton Pritchard.

[B]

That's a really good basketball player. Basketball players, like, really good.

[A]

That group is called valuable assets on great contracts. Okay. Group K, this is called. If you tell Shams, I'll deny it to the death, but I AM Absolutely, unequivocally, 100% listening. Number 52, LeBron James. Number 51, Zion Williamson. Number 50, Jaren Jackson Jr. We did it.

[B]

Look at that.

[A]

He got traded. And they probably said like, dude, you can't tell Shams until we agree on the deal. He can't find out.

[B]

Not for anybody behind him? Curiously, no, not for anybody. What was the. Who were the other players?

[A]

LeBron. Zion. Jared LeBron is like, oh, in the Utah trade. Yeah, yeah, it was like Clayton and expired, basically.

[B]

Here's my issue. I wanted to argue about Zion.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Like, all they're doing is listening. I think he is in the same position as John Morant.

[A]

No, they're doing the. We don't want to trade him. He's finally healthy. That's what they're floating. But nobody believes it.

[B]

It's because it's not credible. I mean, I think that they would trade him if they got one legit offer with one player or one set of draft picks. That would be interesting to them.

[A]

Is there a more fun trade on the planet than Zion Williamson for LeBron James and New Orleans agrees to immediately buy LeBron out.

[B]

Why would New Orleans do that if.

[A]

They got a first round pick?

[B]

They're basically paying.

[A]

They're basically paying like $30 million for a first round pick and to get out of Zion. I don't think this trade will happen. I'm just trying to figure out how to get LeBron.

[B]

That's the problem I'm having. How can we have Zion there? You just, You. That was a. That's a. That's a bag of chips trade. You just traded Zion for a bag of lays.

[A]

Where's Zion supposed to go in the 70s? Like, kind of. Would you trade for him in the Wizards? Fuck no, you wouldn't.

[B]

For what? How does he help this young team get better? How does he help the chemistry of this young team? He puts.

[A]

That's a food situation in Washington for.

[B]

Him when he plays. There's great food in Washington. Washington.

[A]

But is it food that would make him put on weight or is it.

[B]

Food that you can. You can do it all? There is definitely food here. That would be not good.

[A]

You know, it is chocolate city Mambo.

[B]

Sauce on the chicken wings is not a low calorie Sauce, but, you know, the half smokes from Ben's.

[A]

I can't put Zion. I can't move him out of this group. I just think he's too talented because I think every team has meetings about whether they should trade for him or not. He's too talented and he's young still.

[B]

But what. What teams. What are they thinking that they have to give up? Is. Is the hard question and the question for this group.

[A]

Yeah, I don't think that it's very much. Yeah, I don't know the answer. He would not have fetched as much as Jaren Jackson just did.

[B]

I don't think so.

[A]

Yeah, I don't think so either.

[B]

I would have him in the same category as Carl Anthony Townsend and Anthony Davis and Joel Embiid.

[A]

All right, I can do that. I'll move him back.

[B]

I'll move him.

[A]

Would the Knicks trade Towns for Zion? Oh, we have a trade.

[B]

Another one.

[A]

This is unbelievable. It's like the league was waiting for us to do this.

[B]

This is the trade deadline pod from now on. Remember this go on Tuesdays. You need Zach on Tuesdays.

[A]

Huh? Sean says Jaden Ivey and Mike Conley Jr. To the Bulls. Kevin Herder and Dyro Sarge to the Pistons. And Detroit receives a 2026 first round protected swap from Minnesota. So that's basically just Minnesota dumping Mike Conley and not getting anything back and cutting $10 million out of freeing money for. Oh, look at this. The. Oh, boy.

[B]

Who I see when he's doing it.

[A]

So why is Minnesota freeing up $10 million?

[B]

Why is Minnesota.

[A]

Why would they trade a beloved teammate in Mike Conley?

[B]

This is great. Live on Netflix. This is amazing.

[A]

Wow. Who is it? Who.

[B]

Who are the candidates? Let's go through the potential candidates to play point guard for the Minnesota Timberwolves. Here's my number one.

[A]

Oh, you're going that way. Could it be James Harden?

[B]

No. Although that would be really interesting. Wow. The rerouting from Cleveland to Minnesota or the. The Cleveland deal? The Cleveland Clippers deal isn't done. Right.

[A]

John Morant, that you, you.

[B]

You cocksucker. I just was gonna say it. That's the best one. That would be effing amazing.

[A]

So for that one to work. Let me look at Minnesota's spottrack for that one to work.

[B]

Come on.

[A]

Spot track. Spottrack. Going slow. A lot of people on spottrack right now.

[B]

Busy.

[A]

So Memphis did that 28 million trade exception thing, and I wonder if that factors into anything. They could also be a receptacle for an extra contract And I honest trade. If spottrack's just not working, who does? We're never gonna know who's on Minnesota.

[B]

They don't have.

[A]

They have Randall's making money. They have Jaden McDaniels making money. They have DeFincenzo making a little less money. Rob Dillingham naked stick somewhere and spot track doesn't work.

[B]

They need a bunch of those guys to make the run to keep up the momentum to be where they are in that upper echelon in the west. They can't really. Who's the most expendable of that group? It's gotta be DiVincenzo. Does that create enough room? The 10 million bucks plus DiVincenzo and.

[A]

I think Randle's good. Like I wouldn't trade Randall.

[B]

I wouldn't either.

[A]

How would they do that?

[B]

I don't think Randall or Nas Reed or I don't think any of them.

[A]

So the picks in the Utah trade, they're trading their most favorable 2027 pick. Cleveland, Minnesota or Utah. So Memphis gets that. They're trading the Lakers 2027 first and Phoenix's 2031 first to Memphis.

[B]

How do they have Lakers 2027 first?

[A]

Because I think it was one of the. I think that was the. What's the guy? Vanderbilt trade.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

From two years ago.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

That's not. Those picks aren't that good. So Memphis gets some half decent picks but then they get the trade exception and they get out of that contract 13. That's the best they could do. So we might have been in the right range with Jaren Jackson, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, back to trade value.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Keep those trades coming.

[B]

NBA.

[A]

This is great. What a great idea to go live. Group J sorry, we're pot committed here. De' Aaron Fox number 49 five for 260 is his contract situation.

[B]

That's a lot of money.

[A]

OG Anunoby, he's 48. Next two I'll put together Pascal Siakam, number 47. He's three years one hundred and forty six or Julius Randle three for one hundred. I think Randall has more trade value because of the contract. I like both players. I loved what Siakam did last year. But if I'm trying to build a team as cheap as possible, I'd rather have Randle.

[B]

I this is true for live TV. I have to run downstairs for 15 seconds to let my child into my house. I locked him out.

[A]

This is great for live tv. You locked your kid out?

[B]

I locked him out.

[A]

So you weren't even listening to my Siakam Randall thing.

[B]

They're in the perfect spot. I just realized though, panic moment.

[A]

If we could throw to a break, we'll throw to a break. Otherwise I'll filibuster.

[B]

Go ahead.

[A]

Go, go, go. Do your thing. Okay, I'll keep going. So Minnesota by shedding 10 million I'm trying to find is there more? This is hilarious. I wonder if this has happened. Has this ever happened on ESPN where somebody just had to solo? This happened once. I did a rewatchables and I forgot I brought the wrong iPad out and the iPad ran out of batteries and I had to leave the stage and run back and get the other iPad while Van Lathan and Chris Ryan filibustered. But House locking out his own kid. This is borderline child abuse by House. This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn ads. The best B2B marketing gets wasted on the wrong people. So when you want to reach the right professionals, use LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals, including 130 million decision makers. And that's where it stands apart from the other ad buys. You could target your buyers by job title, industry, company role, seniority, skills, company revenue so you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience. That's why LinkedIn Ads generates the highest B2B return and ad spend on all online ad networks. Seriously, all of them. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Just go to LinkedIn.com SimmonsBill Terms and Conditions apply. This episode is brought to you by AMC. You do not want to miss Rise of the 49ers the limited series event premiering February 1st and 2nd exclusively on AMC and AMC. Executive produced by Tom Brady, the docu series charts the legendary rise of the San Francisco 49ers from underdogs to five time Super bowl champions in the 80s and 90s. It features interviews with Joe Montana, Jerry Rice and Ronnie Lott, as well as never be seen archival footage. Rise of the 49ers premiering February 1st and 2nd. Visit amcplus.com to start your free trial now. Honestly, I'm glad you guys got to witness this. This is kind of Father Joe Houses. I can't find any more information about this trade. There's House. I couldn't find any more information and America just decided you're a terrible father. Okay, we're back. Are you back?

[B]

He wasn't really locked out.

[A]

Parent Corner Pasco Siakam, 3 for 146 or Randall, 3 for 100. What do you got?

[B]

Those are both very fair contracts. And both those guys. I mean, really. Let's take 10 seconds to commend Pascal Siakam on the season. This season.

[A]

Really, this season. Playing really hard.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

I watched Indiana last night like they're. I know they're tanking, but they're not tanking. Like, that team was trying to win and was super competitive and was really upset that they didn't beat Houston.

[B]

One of the hardest teams to gamble on, the Indiana Pacers.

[A]

Yeah, it's a stay away.

[B]

It's a stay away.

[A]

Number 45, another guy who's played himself back onto the list. LaMelo Ball. Four years, 168 million. The Hornets have won seven in a row, and he has gone from maybe being in the vicinity of Trae Young and John Moran as a trade asset to I think, playing maybe shedding. That is a big part of what Charlotte does. And I just think when you combine with how popular it is in Charlotte, I just don't. I think he's moved himself in the top 50 house.

[B]

I was prepared to fight this one as well, but there is a nucleus there.

[A]

Those four guys that really play well together.

[B]

And those lineups. The five man, Diabate, he's an important part of it. Ball.

[A]

Yeah. You really got to live with it. You're rattled from being screamed at by your son.

[B]

I can tell everything's good.

[A]

Next 3, 44, 43, 42. Dylan Brooks, Zubots, Austin, Reaves, all with really good deals. Brooks is 21 and 19 for the next two years. Zubots is in the 18 to 21 range, and Reaves just has 14 this year and he's getting paid next year. Would that be the order for you? Brooks, then Zubatz, then Reaves. Reeves is going to get paid this summer is the problem?

[B]

I don't think it's a problem. I mean, this seems super fair to me. I feel like Zubats is going to fetch something meaningful potentially in this upcoming trade deadline. You hear his name?

[A]

Yeah, they do. Garland for Harden. Yeah. Dylan brooks being number 44 in a trade value list I think would have been 500 to 1 odds two years ago.

[B]

And five years from now, we might look back and say, holy cow, that was insane.

[A]

I'm still watching Phoenix games, being unable to comprehend how they're this good. Jalen Green's done nothing this year. Right. They basically have two guys that you would have counted on and then a bunch of awesome Role players who play really hard and it works and I don't really understand it. We only have two sons on the list. Number 41 is Aaron Gordon who is.

[B]

Did you apologize to Ishba yet?

[A]

I'm not going to apologize to Ishbia. Did he apologize to me last year for killing our sons over bet when we bet on them to win 50 plus games? It's a year to year thing. The league goes up and down. He apologized to me last year.

[B]

I had them as over this year.

[A]

Did you go over with them?

[B]

Of course. Yeah. I just thought that.

[A]

Oh, you're Mr. Over.

[B]

No, I'm going to killed on a couple.

[A]

Aaron Gordon, number 41. He's three for 103. Good contract. I wish we knew he was playing all the time. But I also think he's so essential to Denver. It's not like they'd be like oh, we'll trade him number 40 Kevin Durant or number 39 Kawhi Leonard are the last two in this group. Durant is 3 for 144, Kawhi is 2 for 100. Plus you get to learn about planting trees if you have Kawhi on your team.

[B]

Carbon cares about carbon footprint.

[A]

Big tree guy really cares about the environment. My question for you, do you think Houston, knowing what they know now, do you think they wish they hadn't done anything and instead would be doing the Godfather offer for Giannis right now versus going in last June for kd? Do you think they would want to mulligan on that? Deep down if you got Raphael Stone drunk at a hotel bar at 2 in the morning and be like, come on, be honest. Now we know. Would you rather just kept the assets and made a Giannisman So this season.

[B]

They would still had Dylan Brooks and Jalen Green. Did they give up cap flexibility?

[A]

They gave up the number 10 pick too. Oh, your center that you wanted who's in the G league. Tough, tough, tough one for your scouting maliwak. But it's interesting because now that now it'd be harder for them to pull the trade off, they'd have to put like they could have had Green as the contract in it. Now they'd have to put one of their good guys. So I don't really know the answer and it doesn't seem like you do either.

[B]

I don't know the answer.

[A]

Well, if you were a Houston fan, would you be happy with this current outcome?

[B]

Only if Steven Adams wasn't hurt. That's the problem.

[A]

But he gets hurt every year. Like is it like a shocker. Steven Adams got hurt.

[B]

Well, okay. Fev and Stephen Adams. Yeah. That combo was tough when it was this, you know.

[A]

Right. They had Fev before that trade.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Are you okay with KAWHI at number 39?

[B]

Yeah. I mean, you know. Yes.

[A]

He says sadly.

[B]

Well, what are you going to do? He's on pace to. He's only played 60 games once in the last, you know, six years. And he's on pace to play less than 60 games again this year and.

[A]

When he's probably been one of the three best guys in the league for the last seven weeks.

[B]

Right.

[A]

When he plays. I can't not have him in the top 40.

[B]

I'm with you. I'm not even arguing it.

[A]

All right. Group I is called. That last group was. Sorry, we're pot committed here. Fox, Anunoby, Siakam, Randall Ball, Brooks, Subots, Reeves, Gordon Durant and Kawhi. Big group. Next group. Group I. If you're dangling a reckless Bainbridges type overpay, sure, we'd love to talk. Number 38, Franz Wagner. Number 37, Bam Adebayo. This is the highest he's ever been on one of these lists. He's usually in the 20s. Number 36, Trey Murphy. Number 35, Laurie Markkanen. And number 34, Derek White, who is going to make four years, $118 million over the this year, in the next three. So he's under 30 a year. Trey Murphy also has a good contract. Four for one hundred and twelve. Bam is at 37 this year. And then three years, 161 million for a guy who's shooting under 50% field goal and feels like he's worse than he was two years ago offensively. And then Franz and Lauri Markkanen are on big kind of basically max deals. So any of those names jump out to you?

[B]

Well, here's my proposal to you. I would take this entire group and put them either in J or K. Like, I don't. I look at LaMelo Ball and Trey Murphy. I don't. Charlotte's not doing that. They hang up the phone immediately.

[A]

Trey Murphy making $20 million less, though. Trey Murphy at 25 and Lamello Ball at 45.

[B]

They're getting what they pay for with Lamelo. Like, I bet them to make the playoffs.

[A]

I think he's been hurt all the time.

[B]

I know. Well, that. That's right. That was a bad example.

[A]

No, I think that's why he's in that group.

[B]

Let's do. Let's do Franz and Lamelo ball then. Speaking of guys who can't say twice.

[A]

Right. You could argue that Franz should be in. In the previous group. I think that's fair.

[B]

I can move him and Bam, you can move two groups back as far as I'm concerned. I understand the immeasurable impact defense wise. And they did this experiment of playing at the fastest pace in the NBA. Miami with the way they started the season, but where the hell are they now? And he's diminished his own trade value.

[A]

So here'd be the counter on Bam. He's playing on a team that doesn't really have a single player in their roster. Who would be like, tonight I'm going to make Bam Adebayo better. Right?

[B]

Agreed.

[A]

What would he be like on a team? Like, what would it be like with a real guard? Like, what if he was with Donovan Mitchell, you know, somebody like a explosive guard that could create space for him. I just think he's on a weird team.

[B]

Cleveland would be a great team for him.

[A]

Yeah. So we'll go for that group. I'll move Franz back. Adebayo, Murphy, Markkanen, Derek White. And the Derek White case is just. There's just nobody in the league like him right now. When he's out there and this has been the case for years and years, the lineups are just better and more favorable. He just knows where to go, what to do, how to play. He's an unbelievable defensive player. I think he's in the running for top two wild defense teams this year. And he's additive. He can't be one of the best two guys on your team, but he can be the third best guy.

[B]

I'm not going to say one bad thing about him. Okay. He delivered a chip to you guys. He was most important player.

[A]

We're hitting a really fun part of the trade value pod now. 33 guys left, group H. Two guys. Let me save you some time. Fuck no.

[B]

My word.

[A]

We can swear on Netflix. They just ran the rip. Those guys are swearing at each other for two hours. Number 33, Cedric Coward. Number 32, Brandon Miller. Who? This is a rare type of player, Brandon Miller. We've had these guys throughout the years, these guys that they're not as good as you want them to be, but you don't care. Like, you watch them and like that guy might be Ray Allen was like this for Ray Allen ended up having a great career.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But these guys that you just watch them, you're like, man, I'd fucking kill someone for that jump shot, man. That guy could have 50 tonight. Oh, my God. That. It's so effortless. Everything that dude does like you just. He's just so talented. And I love his jump shot. I think that might be my favorite jump shot right now. Wow.

[B]

Anybody you'd have above him your favorite jump shot?

[A]

Yeah, I think it is. It's really great. It's like an old school, awesome, awesome, awesome fucking jump shot. Every time he shoots, I think it's going in. If he's open, I just think. I assume it's going in and it's.

[B]

Surprising when it doesn't.

[A]

Yeah, I really like him pretty good. And Coward. Coward is just.

[B]

Wow. So that's also part of the Memphis.

[A]

Have you seen him in person?

[B]

I have not. I did not go to Wizards. Memphis.

[A]

Well, he's. I mean, now he's probably the best player on the roster.

[B]

It's now a team. It's Jalen Wells and Coward, right?

[A]

Yeah. Jalen Wells is a role player. I mean, they could be good. Yeah, maybe. But they're in the full tank. They're now. They have their eyes on the prize now. So that would be a good over under for us. What do they have?

[B]

Oh, I already bet it. I bet it under this week. 32 and a half. Thank God.

[A]

Off the board now. Fando's like that. That. That over under is gone. We don't trust whatever that team's up to.

[B]

Okay. I think Howard is incredible. He's. He's very dynamic.

[A]

You could argue both of those guys could be higher. By the way. You mean in.

[B]

In inside the top three list?

[A]

Yeah, I'm just saying you could argue it. I think they're in the right spots. Next group is a one man group. It's called group G. Thank God he's on a poison pill. And we can't seriously discuss this Paolo Banchero. Yeah, they can't. There's no way to. For them to trade him until the summer. You know, everything has been said. Yeah, I think he's taken more shit than any good player this season. There's signs of life with the Magic. And sometimes taking shit can be good for a basketball player. As we witnessed with Jalen Brown. Right.

[B]

They need an overhaul in the approach, in their concept, in their scheme.

[A]

I tried to say that to Legs last week.

[B]

Trying to be very delicate.

[A]

Legs doesn't like coach stuff.

[B]

Yeah, I know. I understand.

[A]

Moses has not done a good job this season.

[B]

They also Never get their three best players healthy at the same time to play 50 games. Never.

[A]

I will say with Paolo, he dropped. He Was in the top 10 last year when we did this, and now he's 31. That tells you all you need to know.

[B]

Seems fair to me.

[A]

Still feel like he could pull it back and be a top 10 guy again. But the question for me is, if that's the guy that's taken most of your shots, where are you going? Right?

[B]

Yeah, I watched it. Went to a Wizards magic game. Wizards magic. Well, he didn't play very much in the fourth quarter. He might not have played at all. He shoots when he touches the ball.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it doesn't matter where he is.

[A]

Group F. This is a unique. Group F. This is a unique situation. And I'm hanging up. Number 30, Tyrese Halbert. Number 29, Jason Tatum. I have no idea where to put these guys. Obviously, they're not getting traded. Obviously, nobody's trading for them.

[B]

Right. We can keep moving.

[A]

Group B, budding but expensive almost franchise guys.

[B]

Almost.

[A]

Ooh, really interesting category here with the almost franchise guys. The not quite franchise guys. You and I both have the same definition of a franchise guy. You need to guarantee me 45 to 50 wins if you're on my team to be a true franchise guy, in my opinion, or at least have the potential to do that. I don't think any of these three guys do. Number 28, Jalen Williams. Another guy that's dropped. Number 27, Scotty Barnes, having a great year in Toronto. And number 26, Evan Mobley, who has also dropped.

[B]

It's a great category and a great. Absolutely perfect grouping to have the three of them together, all of them inside the top 30, all making big money, deserve it, too.

[A]

All making salaries in the mid-40s. So you're not getting deals anymore. They're not. They're second contract guys, and they're probably the second best guy on an awesome team. In Jalen Williams. Case we know for a fact. In Moby's. Case we know for a fact. In Barnes, we'll see.

[B]

He might be the top guy. He might be who? Barnes.

[A]

But top guy on a Finals team?

[B]

Probably not.

[A]

No. He's the number two guy on a Finals team. Okay, Group D. Some good either ors in this group. We are down out of the top 25. Group D, number 25, Dylan Harper. Number 24, Vijay Edgecombe. Who hangs up faster?

[B]

The Sixers.

[A]

Sixers or the Spurs? The Sixers.

[B]

The Sixers.

[A]

I think the spurs hang up faster, but I still had Edgecombe ahead of them. Yeah, Harper fits more with where they're going.

[B]

That's fine. I mean, I Think he gets the benefit? Harper?

[A]

Actually, the Sixers hang up faster because they already have maxi.

[B]

That's what I just said.

[A]

Yeah. I think they hang up simultaneously. It's almost like a 24A and B. Nope, we both hang up.

[B]

We're not. Not interested. No. Thank you.

[A]

So we had conversation about whether this was too high for Harper.

[B]

I'm not sold that this is the right spot for him.

[A]

You want to make the case or are you just going to be a wuss?

[B]

Well, only in the sense that.

[A]

I.

[B]

Think Vijay Edgecombe is way ahead of Harper. Like not even close in terms of the value and impact. And the proof of concept comes in the form of all of the clutch minutes that Vijay Edgecombe has played and propelling that team to the wins that they have. There was no concept of that Sixers team coming into the season that he was going to be playing the crunch time minutes with the. With the big, you know, s on his chest and, you know, taking very confident shots, shots that make sense of the offense, the last four minute shots. He's in a class of his own. Honestly, I understand why Cooper Flag's going to win rookie of the year if he doesn't get hurt again. But I have VJ Edgecomb in the conversation for sure. Wow.

[A]

I think that was your audition for being on an ESPN show. I can see Cooper Flag and Cannippo.

[B]

Have been better than Edgecomb in what situations?

[A]

Offensively, Edge Comb for the first 30.

[B]

Games and Canipolis fault Edge Edgecomb elevated.

[A]

I love Edgecombe. I'm not going to argue the other side of Edgecombe.

[B]

He elevated.

[A]

I think he's in an unbelievable spot where offensively he literally doesn't have to worry about doing anything because he has a right now healthy Joel Embiid with Tyrese Maxey on his team averaging 60 points a game, he didn't have anything he does is a bonus.

[B]

He didn't have Embiid at the very beginning and they weren't playing Embiid at the very beginning.

[A]

You made the key point. He seems to really show up in the last three, four minutes. You can feel him in the game and he's great at like, I'm not really involved in this play, but I'm going to figure out how to get involved. I'm going to run to the basket from the blind side and try to see if I can tip the ball, anything.

[B]

Totally agree.

[A]

And then defensively can do whatever he wants. I love Edgecomb. I love Dylan Harper and my only regret with Dylan Harper was I just wish he had more minutes. I know why the minutes aren't there, but he's just. The team's almost too good for him. But I think ultimately it would benefit him because he's going to be in these playoff series in a couple months.

[B]

I would have him behind a whole ton of guys that you have him ahead of.

[A]

He still will remember me fondly on my Dylan Harper, number 25.

[B]

I would push him 20 points. Places back 20, 26. Harper is not wowing anybody.

[A]

Okay. You're going against the guy who told everyone in July that con canipple was going to be in the 2028 Olympic team. Just, just warning you. Number 23 in the apron. Friendly untouchables. Jalen Johnson, five years, 150 million. One of the better bargains in the league and has been really good. I wish his team was more consistent. You're the best guy on the team. I need you to win a couple games in a row and then not do the thing where you win two or three in a row and you start getting excited and then you stink the next game.

[B]

There might be a coaching situation there, too. We did, we just.

[A]

With red glasses Quinn.

[B]

Why are they so inconsistent? Why are they so underwhelming?

[A]

They killed the Celtics last week and it was like, here they go. And then I think they lost two games later to somebody terrible.

[B]

They just can't get healthy at the same time and go on a run.

[A]

One thing with Jalen Johnson, unbelievable that he wasn't a lottery pick. Had a. Remember he had that weird Duke season and he left early and it kind of. He got the stink on him a little bit. But that guy not being in the lottery is nuts.

[B]

Worked out for him.

[A]

Ooh, another either or number 22, Jalen Duran or number 21, Alperin Sengun. Sengu makes five for 185. Is his contract because he already maxed up. Duran has not been maxed up yet. So Duran's on a rookie deal and that could be the argument if you want to have Duran ahead of Sengun.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

That he's cheap, but I'm, I love sengun. I every game he almost gets in a fight with somebody. Now like the, the, the ufc, Turkey side's really starting to come out.

[B]

See, I, I, I have sengun up in the, like the, the next group. The group, the group C. Like I would have him.

[A]

You would have him next to Chet?

[B]

Yeah, I sure would. Yes, I would. Yes. Yes, I think so.

[A]

So you have on number 17.

[B]

Yeah, that, that class well, let me.

[A]

Read the next four guys and you tell me if you still feel that way. Number 20, former Wizard Denny Avdia, who has the best contract in the entire league. Three years, $40 million for an all NBA player.

[B]

Potentially not going to say a single bad thing about Denny. I'm just going to make the observation his best use is high use. He needs the ball to be this version of himself. So how many situations can he have the ball at least that, that this revelation of him being on a 500.

[A]

Team makes sense for him to have Dal ball all the time.

[B]

But if it's 55 win team and he's constantly going downhill, he's a downhill player. So he's a specific type. Again, love him, love him, him. And look at us, you know, look at Washington's explanation for why they had to trade him when they did a little side eye. I will confess I'm not 100% persuaded. I do think ultimately this group of kids, the timeline that Washington has, but man, this version of Denny is really something.

[A]

People seem to be relatively surprised. He was an all star. I mean, to me, who's like, Denny Adia made it. It was like, yeah, do you watch fucking basketball? To me, he's still in the all NBA conversation. He has, he did get hurt last week, so he's had some back issues. Number 19, Stefan Castle. Number 18, Concanipple. Number 17, Amend Thompson. This is probably my favorite grouping of the entire list. I think Thompson has to be first out of those three. Cannippo versus Castle is a great argument. Cannipple, you get, you get an extra year of him on the rookie contract. I just, I honestly can't believe how good Cannippo is. I can't believe it. I can't believe the shit he's doing in these games. Like he's getting like hard baskets and you know, four minutes left, high game. He's getting like physical. Takes a guy into, into the paint up fake, puts his shoulder against him, gets a 15 footer. Like professional baskets that 29 year olds make, right? And then Castle, what he did to Durant last week was one of the great things anyone's done all year. Like just absolutely gotten his shit and shut down one of the greatest scorers in the history of the league. Just shut him down. I don't care.

[B]

He's 37, literally a joy to watch.

[A]

Could not care more game to game. Maybe cares the most, maybe I wouldn't say cares the most, but if you rate guys 1 to 100 for how much you care about each game. He's probably 100.

[B]

It's not time for us to do this. But it's going to be really fascinating as the playoffs approach when we try and forecast how San Antonio is going to perform in the playoffs. Because the conundrum is as hard as they play. Can they go up another level? Can they go up another level against a team that plays them, you know, over a seven game series? Do they have the ability to change out of.

[A]

So this the old football thing. Are you the regular season really good team or do you have the other? Can you up at one level for the playoffs?

[B]

The way that they came back against Houston last week and just took that game away and Bullied. Bullied in the fourth quarter. Yeah.

[A]

The history of the league says bet on the team. That's a year too soon than a year too late. And that if there's signs of what they did last week against Houston, bet on that. Because in the playoffs that tends to blossom in an even bigger way. Castle, Knipple, Thompson. That's about as I really fun. Like 20 years ago, all three of those guys probably would have been in the top 10 group C the not apron friendly untouchables. And there's one argument to have. But let me read all the guys. All these guys have big contracts. Number 16, Chet Holmgren, Jamal Murray, Jaylen Brown, Devin Booker, Donovan Mitchell, Jalen Brunson, number 11. And the reason he's number 11 is because by far he has the best contract. He is four years for 156. You're basically saving 10 million a year by having Jalen Brunson on your team. And I think that swings it. I have all these guys near each other. Is there. Does that order look right to you or is there. Do you have. Would you raise your hand?

[B]

The only player that I'd like to have a conversation about is Chet. Because this group of players right here are all guys that could. Absolutely. We have proof of concept. Jamal Murray helped Denver win a championship. Crucial, crucial player to Denver winning a champ. Jalen Brown, crucial player to the Celtics winning a championship. Devin Booker, crucial player in the NBA.

[A]

To make the finals.

[B]

Finals. Right. Jalen Brunson. Sacrifice, however you want to characterize whatever happened with this, this deal that whatever accommodations were made accommodated a situation where the Knicks have a genuine chance to once again be in the Eastern Conference finals and make a push to get into the.

[A]

Well, that that would be one thing. Why he would be more untradable because obviously things were said and things were promised Not.

[B]

Not a knock. I mean, I. I think he's.

[A]

You can't trade him.

[B]

He's like.

[A]

But wait a second. What about that meeting I taped?

[B]

I don't have Chuck Holmgren in this class is all I'm saying.

[A]

So it sounds like you want to. It sounds like you want to put Chet Holmgren and Sengun together. Yeah.

[B]

Like, honestly, I'd rather have Sengun over at Holmgren.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I think over the course of their entire careers, Sengun has. I'm going to knock on wood. I don't want to jinx him. Has the capacity to avoid injuries that have him out for extended stretches.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And he plays a very physical brand of basketball. That makes him very special in this and not mean.

[A]

Again, Chet's had a couple. Chet's had a couple injuries already, I guess with Holmgren, the defense and then the metrics that back up his defense. It's way, way up there. And you also feel it when Hartenstein goes out and all that. Like, they've been on. They were on a little bit of a slide into the Denver game, but on paper, threes and rim protection, that's what you're looking for. All right, we can move. So I can move Holmgren back right after. So it goes Thompson, Knippo Castle, then Sengun Holmgren, then Avdia, then Jalen Theron. This episode is brought to you by Viori, whose lounge collection is a total game changer. For fall comfort, take their Ponto performance joggers and Coronado hoodie made with Viori's signature dream knit fabric. Super soft, lightweight. Move with you wherever the day takes you. Plus, they're designed to look great whether you're working out, running errands, or even heading to the office. Or, like me, power walking around la. Basically, Viori is an investment in your happiness for our listeners. They're offering 20% off your first purchase at viori.com Simmons v u O-R-I.com Simmons exclusions apply. Visit the website for full terms and conditions. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. With the winter games and end of football season coming up, suddenly everything's a sport. And those competitions are even better when Mick Loeb Ultra is on the line. So go race to the bottom of the slope. See who gets the best shot in driveway hoops. Winner gets the superior beer. Worth playing for. Or play for. Bigger keeps with Michelob Ultra's latest challenge with a chance to get tickets to the biggest sporting events in 2026. Enter [e-mail] Ultrainstructor, Michelob Ultra Ultra Instructor. No purchase necessary. Open to US Residence 21 Plus. Begins on January 30, 2026. Ends on February 22, 2026. See official [e-mail] Rules for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details. Do that.

[B]

Let me ask this.

[A]

So I would make. Group C would be Jamal Murray, Jaylen Brown, Devin Booker, Donovan Mitchell, Jalen Brunson. Do you like that?

[B]

Yeah. Yes. That's very fair.

[A]

Okay. We are now in the top 10, and we have two groups left. Group B, only if they made us do it. Number ten, Steph Curry. Number nine, Giannis and Tetekupo.

[B]

So Giannis is making him do it, and Steph, I guess, won't. I wish he would.

[A]

The Steph thing's hard because nobody would it make sense for San Antonio to trade Stefan Castle for Steph Curry?

[B]

Of course. What kind of question is that?

[A]

Right, of course. But they can't do it with the cap because one guy makes $7 million a year and the other guy makes 50. So that's where he makes so much money that it kind of throws off. It's like no trade is realistic for him. Is my point for Steph Curry? Because Golden State's not trading him for Brunson, Mitchell, Booker, Brown or Murray. Why would you. At that point, you're just going sideways, right? You're not really trading him for one of these younger assets like Castle, Knipple, Thompson. Just because. What does that do for those teams? Oh, who?

[B]

I don't know. Steph Curry on Houston.

[A]

For Thompson, Fev.

[B]

I would consider it. Like, Amin is untouchable to me, nearly.

[A]

You just said you would consider it, though. Fucking Steph Curry for Durant would be so bummed out. Like, what the fuck? Now I get there. Could win a title that Steph trying to fix this Steph thing. And then Giannis, if he had a contract that everyone felt good about and a situation that everybody felt like he was staying in, he'd be higher than number nine.

[B]

Sure. Right. He's going to get traded, so he can't be.

[A]

He will not be traded for any of these next eight guys. This is group A. Completely and utterly untouchable. Number eight, Tyrese Maxey, and number seven, Cade Cunningham.

[B]

Two. Two really impressive seasons.

[A]

Hang ups.

[B]

Way to. Way to go.

[A]

Hey, I'm calling about Kate. I'm just hanging up. Hey, what's the deal with Maxi? I hung up.

[B]

Here. I need to do it with both hands. We need both those guys healthy for the, for the NBA playoffs, we need the Eastern Conference. We need those guys in the Eastern Conference finals or, you know, wherever the Sixers end up.

[A]

Maxi's hit a point where I don't not even sure who he reminds me of in NBA history.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

He's almost like, I was almost thinking of other sports. Like, he reminds me of Jameer Gibbs. It's the speed. It's the speed, but it's like these little stretches, these four minute stretches he has where he just completely takes over the game and the other team's helpless and you know, he's doing it, he's making everything. It reminds me of like those, those Lions drives where Gibbs is like, here's GIBBS Again for 12, here's Gibbs on the wheel route for 25. And the other team's like, we can't stop this. Or Bijan Robinson when he gets like that. Like, that's who he reminds me of. Yeah, these like crazy athlete just taking over a drive. He takes over drives even though NBA games are obviously different than football. But he'll take over these six minute stretches. He's done it over and over again. They'll be down 10 and then all of a sudden Maxi will just hit two threes. He gets a fast break layup and he gets a floater and it's a tie game and the Philly fans are going nuts and we're like, what just happened? They were down 10. I don't, I can't think of any other players like him in history. Yeah, and I'm not saying like, like I'm not putting him up on a, you know, in the pantheon or anything. I'm just saying I don't know what kind of guard was like him that I've watched.

[B]

What's, what's artificial intelligence say? We have to ask.

[A]

You going to Gemini?

[B]

I'm in one right now. The historical comp that comes up speaking of AI is AI.

[A]

Oh, that's interesting. AI wasn't the shooter that Maximus.

[B]

No, I agree.

[A]

I loved AI and you and I were both, we were on the fucking wall with AI Deep, deep defenders of AI. Yeah, but yeah, he wasn't there. He was streaky, but not like Maxi. Max is getting the ball off rebounds and you know he's going to go 80ft and he just does it. And the team seems like they were completely surprised by it each time. And then Cade, I mean the stuff he's doing where he's really the only option. They just traded Jaden Ivey today. They finally punted on that.

[B]

Playmaker, Playmaker. I love. He leads with his chest. I love. I mean, can't say enough good things about that dude.

[A]

And all the. Losing that Monte Williams year, just getting kicked in the nuts and kicked in the teeth for four months feels like made him and a couple other guys in those team.

[B]

So they have Herder now. That solves one of their shooting open questions. Maybe.

[A]

Well, it just maybe you flip Herder into something else.

[B]

I still think that Michael Porter Jr.

[A]

He doesn't play defense, though. Do you need defense on that team?

[B]

I think that defense plays enough. Team defense. They're strong. That's what Jalen Durham's for.

[A]

After Porter fucked up that Celtics play a couple of weeks ago, when we just got a wide open three to tie the game, I was like, I don't know.

[B]

All right, here we go.

[A]

Most controversial moment of the. Of the column, of the podcast. I don't even know. Am I doing a column or a podcast? The next two guys are number six and number five. Number six, Luka Doncic. Number five, Cooper Flag.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, obviously.

[A]

Obviously what? Say it. Obviously.

[B]

What all you can do. I think there are many, many teams in the league that would value many of the players that we've already gone through higher than Cooper Flag on a.

[A]

Rookie deal, making like $11 million a year at age 19, doing things.

[B]

That's the argument.

[A]

Doing things at his age that nobody's done in the history of the league.

[B]

That's the argument.

[A]

Not even Kobe Bryant, Right?

[B]

No, I get it.

[A]

Not even Kevin Gardner.

[B]

It is the evolutionary. You know, this is the version. This is how we've gotten so lucky. As we've gotten older, the way that the league has developed, the way these kids come in more and more and more ready. Like, we lived through a whole history of kids that jumped straight from high school into the pros, and now you have to go through one year of college. But they're very young in their first year of college because of the way that the.

[A]

Yeah, and he skipped a year of high school, so he was even a year younger.

[B]

They're all that reclass. I was trying to think about it. Isn't that what it's called, reclassifying or whatever?

[A]

Well, he reclassed during the season because he went from being a really good rookie to a fucking animal in the last two months. I cannot believe what I watch. I watched the two Mavs games, the 49 pointer against Charlotte, and then I watched that other game the next morning. What did he.

[B]

Wasn't it?

[A]

Yeah, 37. Whatever. He did. I cannot believe. I honestly cannot believe how much better he is than he was at the start of the year. I can't believe it. He has. I was texting with Legler about it because Legler did the Houston game. I was texting him the next day. I was like, I don't understand. This guy now has a finishing move where he goes left full speed and does this craning lefty layup off the glass that he makes. Which by the way, it took five years for Jayson Tatum to even have that shot. And he misses it like half the time or he missed it before he got hurt. So he's got that as a finishing move. He has this hesitation move where it seems like he's going to the basket. He stops and then he keeps going that I haven't seen anyone stop yet. He's got this move where he goes into the paint, spins around and does a little one handed like 12 footer. He has that. He has a pull up jumper already.

[B]

That's cool.

[A]

And he's running the team. He's playing point forward for them. Jayson Tatum couldn't do this until like year five. I'm dumbfounded by this. This guy was supposed to be this awesome two way glue. Guy had some offense but was just impactful. Oliver, this guy's an elite offensive player already. Like if you actually watch those games, the shit he was doing was like impossible.

[B]

They couldn't defend him.

[A]

So that's my Cooper Flag case.

[B]

Houston couldn't defend him.

[A]

Houston had a men Thompson on him and he was going by him because.

[B]

He can start and stop in a way. That pull up jumper makes him. You have to respect it. Now he's by you and he's by you with both hands.

[A]

The full speed lefty, he can fake.

[B]

The full step, he can go back.

[A]

Come up, he can do the lefty and then he can spin into the right hand and the. I just can't believe what I'm watching. On top of. He's a really good defensive player already. Like really good.

[B]

I think he's fine defensively. That's the part of it that makes me.

[A]

Well, I think he should be a stretch four. But they're playing him. He's guarding like guards half the time. He can't regarding like Pascal Siakam and Jaylen Brown and people like that.

[B]

I agree. That's the only. That would be the portion of it.

[A]

Where you know well, so what's interesting about this is Cooper flag is five and Luca is six on this list. Luca Makes five times as much money and he's seven, eight years older. Right? They don't get Cooper Flag unless they fuck up. This Luca thing. I was texting with our friend Jason Gallagher about this Die Hard Mavs fan.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And I was like, dude, you just have to admit this worked out. It was horrible. It traumatized the city. It almost ruined basketball in Dallas. Until you ended up with Flag. I would just rather have Flag, I think, in a weird way, but he was like, that's fine. But we built this team. He was like, I see the case. But we built this team for Luka and we made the finals and we had a chance to win with Luka. And he was saying, what bums out the Mavs fans because they love Luka is that now Luka's on a mediocre team again and now he's two years away from being where he was two years ago and he just lost all this time. So I think they just really wanted Luka to win a title like they wanted Dirk. So I get it all that's super fair.

[B]

I agree with every single word that he said, especially the part about the Lakers still being two years away from being having the right players around him for him to be the best version of himself. And I will say having the good fortune of having great seats to see him. He's in shape. He looks good.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He's moving good. He was motivated because he knew he was going to get that triple double in the first half against Washington. But.

[A]

Flag, holy shit. He was 18 for the first two months of the year. I just can't believe what we're watching. You should not be able to do this for your 20. You should not be able to run NBA teams playing out of position and getting every shot you want and doing all the things that he does.

[B]

I think with the brain is the thing. That's why you have to live with it.

[A]

I also like that in two years he's made himself so much better in all these different ways. Clearly he just works his ass off on his game and he's added all of these different things that I just don't even think he had a Duke. But what do I know? Number four, Anthony Edwards. Number three, Shay Gilgeous Alexander. Number two, Nikola Jokic. Number one, Victor Wombediama. Anything off on that Final Four for you?

[B]

No.

[A]

Stealth you could make. If we were on first take and you wanted to just zag, you could do the. All right, you have Victor Wembanyama first. Is he going to play 20 games in a row. Am I going to get that? Am I going to get nine months out of this guy? Is he going to stay healthy? Is he going to be healthy four years from now? You would do that thing. I'm cool. Betting on the seven foot seven guy, who's the generational freak. I'm still going to bet on that. Who's like 22?

[B]

Well, and part of what should be encouraging for spurs fans and for Wemby fans is you can see him putting on weight this season. He has, you know, developed a little.

[A]

Bit, but not in the Yao Ming. This actually feels like it might be hurting you. He's still moving.

[B]

Awesome. Like it's. It's making sense. So if that's, you know, the path that he's on at his height and his body can hold up and he can just grow in, you know, to becoming the version of the tough guy that he. I mean, he's already pretty tough. He is showing us that he's up for, you know, guys getting into him, getting into his shit. I love, you know, how Oklahoma City, you know, he just enjoys torturing Chet. He's made it a pet project of his.

[A]

So that's really why you wanted to drop chet into the 20s.

[B]

Well, when we.

[A]

Wemby's declared war on Chet and he's.

[B]

Made him his bitch. I mean, I think Wemby pretty clearly has done it successfully.

[A]

Chet is the defending champion. Well, that's it. Not a lot of drama for the end. Unless you wanted to have a Jokic vs Alexander debate.

[B]

For what? No.

[A]

Yeah, we're not doing that. Okay. And before we go, because I've had you for two hours. I had a great time, by the way.

[B]

Thank you. I've enjoyed it. Did we somehow manage to not. You don't have to have any British tabloids chasing you because that was like what was two years ago. We did the team. Yeah, that's True Value column talked about it.

[A]

I'd also like to shout out Cooper Flag's mom, longtime die hard Celtics fan. I would encourage you to read in the CBA agreement that you don't have to sign a second deal with the team that drafted you. You could just take it to free agency and bet on yourself. And I don't think anything would be more meaningful to the Flag family and to the region of New England for him to play on the Boston Celtics with his second contract. So I'd like to shout out her. I hope she's doing great. Hopefully she'll come to All Star Weekend. I can Maybe get a meal with her and talk to her and maybe become friends with her.

[B]

I don't want to prolong this show, but I am interested in how does Dallas kind of has to move up his timeline a little bit, doesn't it.

[A]

With how he looks now. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

You have Lively and you have Cooper flag.

[A]

Right.

[B]

What else?

[A]

Well, Lively's out for the whole year.

[B]

No, I understand, but like talking about timeline, you're talking about what are the assets. How are you going to build around this? This kid. What's the team?

[A]

Can I ask you one question that I was looking at for the play in bets?

[B]

I'm listening.

[A]

Dallas is 33 to 1 to make the play in right now. Hold on, let me find out. Right now, they are the 12 seed. They're 19 and 30. They're three games behind Portland, who has 27 losses and four games behind the Clippers. And watching Dallas, they're in all these games, right. They barely lost to the Lakers. Minnesota beat them. They barely lost to Charlotte. They barely lost to Houston. They beat the Knicks Gold State to beat Utah twice. Like they're a 500 team with a guy who's getting better. And maybe Davis comes back. I just thought 33 to 1 I thought was crazy. What if Portland tanks?

[B]

Is Davis coming back?

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

When's Kyrie coming back?

[A]

Hopefully soon.

[B]

Unless they're tanking, they can't score at the end of games.

[A]

He's trying.

[B]

He singularly.

[A]

Here's the other thing. Since the start of this podcast where we've had multiple trades and we sorted out the 80 best trade value guys and even moved some of the list around a little bit. It seems like the Timberwolves have moved all of their forces into Giannis island and they're trying to invade.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That seems for this season.

[A]

Yeah, that seems to be what's happening.

[B]

Here.

[A]

Where we have. They cut money there by getting rid of Conley. They have a little more flexibility and they seem to be rounding up now what they would have to do to get Giannis. It would involve Randle, it would involve Nasreed and DeFrancenzo probably to make the contracts work, they'd probably have to be a third team where somebody gets one of those guys and you basically just try to end up with Giannis and Ant and go bear. Right. And just patch around, maybe get some buyout guys. But I would think that would be their plan. They have that Barringer who I really like too. That rookie, the French guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Maybe he could be in the trade, they have some swaps I guess they can do. But my question is, if Giannis says to the Bucks, I want a title for you, I'd like to play with Anthony Edwards and try to win another title. I've paid my dues here. I've been here 13 years. I've been great for the community. I've been an awesome guy. Can you trade me to Minnesota? Does Milwaukee then have an obligation to do that? No, and that's how I feel too. They could say we'll try to do it. Yes, but they have to. The offer has to be solid enough.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, do we think that Portland in their deal with Milwaukee got back enough for Dame?

[A]

What do you mean?

[B]

When they traded Dame to Milwaukee, Portland got enough back.

[A]

They got some kick ass Milwaukee picks for the end of the decade that they were kind of banking on. Hey, maybe this Giannis thing won't be working out. Five years from now we'll have some picks. So that trade, remember that big argument about their offer versus the Miami offer?

[B]

That was never an argument. That was just.

[A]

Well, it was an argument for a lot of people who didn't follow basketball.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah. So Minnesota and then I, I never have thought Golden State has enough and I don't know why he'd want to go there. Like if he's getting traded, it's gotta be to a place that wins the title. Cleveland, as we mentioned earlier, especially now that Memphis has this trade exception, maybe they can stick salary there and figure out Mobley. And I still think I'm. But it'll never come out if Boston's involved. But I'm still watching what Boston does.

[B]

The east makes more sense to me than the west still because the west is so loaded and by my forecasting is going to remain loaded for a while yet.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So that's what you're putting stuff into.

[A]

Boston can go really stealth. If they wanted to put Jalen on the table, which as I'm on the record as saying, Jalen and Tatum, I hope they retire as Celtics together. But I'm just saying the Celtics could get the organ they organizations basically Chisholm and Brad and nobody else would know. And if they really wanted to kick the tires on Jalen and Giannis as part of a package with some picks and then Milwaukee could send Jalen somewhere else. Like you're at least having lunch about that and talking about that. If you and I were running the Celtics, we would probably have lunch. You would probably overeat.

[B]

I would definitely overeat.

[A]

And then that's what happened. By the way, chicken parm last night was great. Kind of broke my carbs thing a little bit.

[B]

Yeah, because you knew we're going to be together at the end of this week. You better get ready. We're not.

[A]

No, I'm prepared to be disappointing.

[B]

Anywhere.

[A]

That we go healthy as you look at me and discuss.

[B]

Wait till we see what comes to the table, whether or not you can resist it.

[A]

We'll be at Celtics Heat Friday and then Bob Cousy the ceremony on Saturday for our school holy cross. We get to watch them dedicate the court and meet the coups. I'm so excited. And apparently maybe Jalen Coker.

[B]

Hey, love that guy.

[A]

Our guy, Jalen Coker. The other thing is we're going to do our super bowl pick at the end of Thursday's episode. So it'll probably be like a 20 minute segment. You have Fairway rolling coming this week. Yeah, you're recording. Get some coffee.

[B]

I'll be good to go.

[A]

Unlock your kid out of the closet.

[B]

We can golf.

[A]

I have rewatchables. Just went up. Wild things. So you can find on Spotify, on Netflix, wherever you get your podcasts. Next week's episode, Ace Ventura.

[B]

Oh yeah, a great one.

[A]

Pet Detective. That is our next episode on Monday that is on Netflix. By the way, both, both of the Ace Ventura movies are on Netflix.

[B]

So you don't say.

[A]

We have not done that one yet. So we.

[B]

That's amazing.

[A]

Bang that one out. Anyway, thanks to Gahao and Eduardo and everybody at the Ringer as well. Don't forget to read the ringer.com for all the updated stuff. Enjoy the 48 hours leading to the trade deadline. House. Thank you. See you in a couple days.

[B]

We did it. See you, buddy.

[A]

Must be 21 plus on President select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18/plus on President DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Game problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 888-797-7777 or visit ccpg.org Chattinconenetic or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplianma.org this episode is brought to you by TaxAct. Like an expert coach Tax act offers step by step guidance and guaranteed accuracy when filing taxes. Get tips along the way. Add expert assist to talk to tax experts and let our experts do your taxes for you with Expert Full Service TaxAct helps you find the deductions and credits you deserve so you can get them over with visit taxact.com to learn more. Conditions apply. See taxact.com for details or call 800-327-5050. For 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 877-8-HOPE NY or text hopeny in New York. For Louisiana, call 877-770-7867.