The Bam Backlash, Kawhi’s Heater, East vs. West, and SGA vs. Jokic, With Tim Legler

Summary

The Bill Simmons Podcast:
The Bam Backlash, Kawhi’s Heater, East vs. West, and SGA vs. Jokic, With Tim Legler
Date: March 13, 2026
Host: Bill Simmons
Guest: Tim Legler

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Episode Overview

In this all-NBA episode, Bill Simmons and ESPN analyst Tim Legler break down the state of the league as the regular season nears its close. They discuss the shifting balance of power between the Eastern and Western conferences, the shock and fallout of Bam Adebayo’s historic 83-point game, Kawhi Leonard’s age-defying dominance, first-team All-NBA debates, the SGA vs. Jokic conversation for league’s best player, and more. The episode mixes analytics, storytelling, and big-picture reflections, capturing memorable NBA moments both recent and historic.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. East vs. West: Conference Power Shift

(05:29–22:46)

• Simmons opens by referencing John Schumann’s NBA.com column on whether the East has finally caught the West in competitive balance.
• Historically, the West has overwhelmed in titles, MVPs, and star power, but the East is closing the gap, especially in the quality and depth of their playoff teams.
• Tim Legler notes, “The gap has been closed…if you look at the top teams in terms of title viability, the edge is still West, but the East from seeds 3 to 8 is as intriguing as the West.”
• They analyze how top Western teams (OKC, San Antonio, Denver) still stand above, but note the impressive improvement—especially Boston closing the gap with Detroit.
• Simmons: “Boston dismantled Cleveland and I’m going, man, Tatum finds that little extra burst, would not be surprised if Boston wins the East.” (11:04)
• Legler: “Three of the hottest teams in the NBA right now are in the play-in territory in the Eastern Conference—Orlando, Miami, and Atlanta.” (16:34)
• Luck has affected the balance: prominent Eastern stars (Giannis, Embiid, Halliburton, Tatum) have battled injuries, while Western teams have enjoyed rare health.
• The pod speculates that the East might actually have the majority of the league’s power in the next season(s).

Notable Quote:

“It’s still a little heavier at the very top in the West, but when you look three through eight, the East has significantly narrowed the gap.” — Tim Legler (17:35)

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2. Franchises with the Brightest Futures

(22:46–26:34)

• OKC and San Antonio are identified as the clear 1–2 for “teams you’d want to be for the next 7 years” due to elite young stars and assets.
• Boston, Denver, and Indiana round out the top five due to strong core players and organizational stability.
• Charlotte, Detroit, Houston, Dallas, and others are a tier below but rising.
• Discussion of whether Houston would redo their Kevin Durant trade given the VanVleet injury.
• Legler details Houston’s offensive struggles: “They just don’t play a modern offense. Durant’s great, but so many late-clock possessions.” (24:12)

Notable Quote:

“Point guards are important. Turns out, we need them.” — Bill Simmons (26:34, on teams like the Clippers and Houston lacking true PGs)

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3. The Bam Adebayo 83-Point Explosion: Shock, Backlash, and What It Means

(36:23–61:04)

• Adebayo more than doubles his career high (from 41 to 83), sparking debate: was it beautiful, embarrassing, or both?
• Simmons: “If we drafted who’d score 83, he wouldn’t be in the first 50 picks.” (36:38)
• Both agree it was among the weirdest NBA things ever, reminiscent only of truly outlier moments (e.g., Wilt’s 100, Kobe’s 81).
• Legler: “It’s the nature of his game—you respect the hell out of Bam, but he’s not a voracious shot-taker…crazy thing.” (37:32)
• Simmons contends someone (a high-usage, high-volume three-point shooter) will break 100 points soon; Legler doubts it, citing defenses would never allow it in a competitive game.
• The difference between the Kobe and Bam outbursts is discussed: Kobe’s felt preordained and a bit selfish, Bam’s was organic, driven by his teammates, and came in a tanking-driven environment.

On Tanking and Game Integrity:

• Both vent frustration at the Wizards and other tanking teams, not at Miami for chasing history.
• Simmons: “If you’re going to cry about 'bastardizing the game,' what about Washington? Just stop the guy. You’re all professionals.” (52:42)
• Legler: “Much bigger problem with what Washington was doing than Miami…an obligation to help a revered player chase history.” (56:36; 45:53)
• They note the pattern of regular season weirdness (Scott Skiles’ 30-assist game, Bill Russell’s 55 rebounds etc.) as part of the game’s character.

Notable Quotes:

“First of all, I love when the guys go for it, because ultimately it’s a stupid regular season game, and when you have a chance to make history, you should go for it.” — Bill Simmons (51:02)
“Jaylen Brown has it. Competitive professionalism is a skill. Durability, consistency, showing up night after night—don’t think we value that enough.” — Tim Legler (76:44)

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4. Kawhi Leonard: Best Season Ever?

(64:45–71:41)

• Kawhi is averaging 28+ points per game at age 34, a rare feat historically (only Michael Jordan, Bernard King, Steph Curry, LeBron, and Kevin Durant have done this post-age 34).
• Legler: “He’s an absolute machine. When he gets on these rolls, it’s so automatic…imagine if injuries hadn’t wiped out five seasons.” (66:05)
• They debate if Kawhi is in the true “all-time” tier among wings/forwards, arguably second only to LeBron and KD for pure talent this century.
• Simmons notes unique Clippers “fuck-you” energy (thanks to Matheran, Chris Dunn, John Collins) and the possibility of a juicy playoff series vs. San Antonio, with Kawhi returning as the ultimate villain.

Notable Quote:

“He is an absolute machine…on the nights he’s playing well, as machine-like as any player I’ve ever seen.” — Tim Legler (66:05)

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5. All-NBA First Team Contenders

(73:03–78:46)

• Simmons: “Yokic, SGA, Cade, Wemby are locks. That fifth spot: Kawhi, Anthony Edwards, Jalen Brown, Luka, maybe Donovan Mitchell.”
• Legler leans Jalen Brown for two-way dominance and carrying Boston sans Tatum, but notes Tatum’s return dilutes Brown’s statistical case (“cannibalism”).
• Both stress underappreciated value of professionalism, consistency, and showing up nightly.
• Simmons: “What Jalen did, he showed us what he can do as a No. 1 guy. That’s real validation.”

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6. SGA vs. Jokic: Who’s the Best Player Alive?

(88:18–90:56)

• SGA’s late-game, clutch shooting and two-way excellence have elevated him to “1A/1B” status alongside Jokic.
• Legler: “I got no problem if you say SGA’s the best player in the league. It’s a totally legitimate debate now.” (88:18)
• Simmons thinks playoff success may come down to which position—center or perimeter creator—has more value in a given postseason.

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7. Miscellaneous & Memorable Moments

• Storytelling: Legler reminisces about his career, best point guards he played with (John Stockton, Rod Strickland, Tim Hardaway), and gives love to the underrated Robert Pack. (29:38–32:44)
• Simmons: “Point guards are important. Turns out we need them.” (26:34)
• Legler: “Robert Pack might be right up there with any [PG] for making my life easiest.” (30:44)
• Fun observations: Both bemoan the rise of tanking, discuss Scott Skiles’ 30-assist game, the joy in “weird” regular seasons, and discuss first impressions of up-and-coming guards like Harper and AJ Mitchell. (83:37–86:54)
• NFL tangent: Quick humorous detour into Tim’s guarded optimism for the Commanders’ offseason. (91:14–93:27)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On East/West power:
  "It’s no question the gap has been significantly narrowed." — Tim Legler (17:35)

• On Bam’s 83:
  "If we drafted who’d score 83, he wouldn’t be in the first 50 picks." — Bill Simmons (36:38)

• On tanking:
  "Guess who’s bastardizing the game? Washington! You are all professionals, stop the guy." — Bill Simmons (52:42)

• On Jaylen Brown’s All-NBA case:
  "Toughness and competitive professionalism are a skill. Jaylen Brown has it." — Tim Legler (76:44)

• On Kawhi’s late-career peak:
  "He is an absolute machine…as machine-like as any player I’ve ever seen." — Tim Legler (66:05)

• On SGA/Jokic:
  "It’s a legitimate debate…you’re not wrong if your opinion is SGA." — Tim Legler (89:26)

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Timestamps for Major Topics

• 05:29 — East vs. West historical balance and updates
• 14:46 — Deep dives into “flawed” Western playoff teams
• 22:46 — Ranking best future franchises
• 36:23 — Bam’s 83-point night dissected, compared to NBA history
• 45:53 — The ethics of chasing records vs. tanking
• 64:45 — Kawhi Leonard’s historic level at age 34
• 73:03 — All-NBA team debates (SGA, Jokic, Cade, Wemby, plus fifth spot)
• 88:18 — SGA vs. Jokic: MVP and “best alive” arguments
• 91:14 — Legler on the Commanders’ off-season, quick NFL tangent

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Episode Tone & Flow

The conversation is lively, analytical, and reverential when discussing NBA history, while also laced with humor and incredulity—especially around the absurdity of tanking and outlier performances. Simmons brings irreverent energy and deep fandom, while Legler adds analytic sharpness and firsthand stories. Both are quick to go off-script for memorable asides and tangents.

Transcript

[A]

This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Those superior moments in the game, like dropping a buzzer beater at the last second, are worth it. It feels so good. And have you noticed all the smoothest plays are served ice cold, just like Michelob Ultra. That's why Michelob Ultra. It's one of the reasons it's the official beer partner of the NBA. Or maybe it's because it's a superior light beer with a smooth, refreshing taste and only 95 calories. Or maybe it's because they're giving fans a chance to win amazing prizes, including courtside seat tickets. Michelob Ultra Superior is worth playing for. Enter now at michelobultra.com courtside Michelob Ultra Courtside 2526 no purchase necessary. Open to US residence 21/plus begins on October 1, 2025 ends on June 30, 2026 multiple entry periods. See official [e-mail] courtside for free entry, entry deadlines and prizes and details. The Bill Simmons Podcast is brought to you by Sam's Club. We are also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network where we put up a new episode of the Rewatchables on Monday. We did Fargo. We have another one coming next Monday, third episode of CR Month. It is to Live and Die in la. And we're actually doing two episodes next week because we have. I think we're doing a special mailbag episode too on Wednesday. So if you like watching these on Netflix, all you have to do is click the My List tab on your Netflix. And every time we do a Rewatchables or a Bill Simmons podcast or any Ringer podcast you'd like, that would just pop up. You'll just be able to get it right away. You'll see my animated mug. Click on it. There you go. We have a podcast on Sunday. I'm going to be going a little bit earlier because we're going to come right off March Madness and I'm going to do some stuff with Tate Frazier, Kyle Mann right off the brackets. They're going to tell us everything we want to look for for March Madness. I'll do some NBA too. So that's going to be probably 4:00pm Pacific Time on Sunday. And then after I do that, a couple hours later. Big Picture Sean Fantasy, Amanda Dobbins reacting to all the Oscars stuff. It's looking. We talked about it with Sean on Tuesday. It's looking pretty good for my guy. Mbj. This is unbelievable. Been with him on the Ground Floor, the Wire, Friday Night Lights had him on my podcast in 2012 or 13 whenever he did Fruitvale got to meet him. Then he came on a couple times on the BS Pod and always rooting for that dude. So man, it would be amazing if he won best actor and who knows, maybe Sinners could upset one battle. It's gonna be quite an Oscars. So we'll be live with the big picture right afterwards. They did their preview podcast today. We have some good stuff on the ringer.com as well. By the way, on the Ringer we did a giant oral history of the Sloan Conference last week, which it was the 20 year anniversary. I thought it was a really entertaining piece. And then we did a video thing too. I was in it. A bunch of people are in it. But if you care about the last 20 years of advanced Metrics and Sloan Conference, all that stuff, we got Daryl Morris in it. Check it out because I thought it was really good. We've been doing some good stuff there lately coming up on this podcast. So I was going to tape something. Record. I always say tape. It's record. I was going to record something after the two games tonight at the top here because it was okc, Boston, San Antonio, Denver. But Tatum's not playing for Boston, Wemby's not playing for San Antonio. So we're just going to go with Tim Legler here. Hadn't caught up with Legs in a couple of weeks. We had talk about west versus East, Bam's 83 point game, the Celtics, how they're looking and then and we talked about Kawhi and the Clippers and just Kawhi in general. What's going on with him and a bunch of other NBA stuff. So this is an all NBA podcast. Very excited about it. We're take a break Pearl Gym and then our guy Legs. This episode of the Bill Simmons podcast is presented by Sam's Club. It is that time of the year when you just got to get in your car and go somewhere. I've done that plenty of times in my life. Nowhere gets you ready to go quite like Sam's Club. Snacks, the gear, super low prices on gas. They got a bunch of stuff that keep you and the whole crew rolling. And here's what you got to do. You got to join the club of yes [e-mail] yes. And you must be 18 years or older to purchase membership. A membership is subject to qualifications. Visit samsclub.com yesend for details. All right, we're recording this before the Thursday Night games. It's late afternoon Pacific time. Tim Legler is here. You heard him last night doing a Houston Denver blowout. And there's a lot of stuff to talk about for us. I'm going to start here, though.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

So we catch up like every three, four weeks or so. We try to do like a big theme at the top. John Schuman, who I think has an invaluable NBA.com Monday column, writes some other stuff. He did a piece today about the east versus the west, wondering if the east has caught up to the west. And he wrote that the west has been the dominant conference basically for the last 27 years. East has only had a winning record the last three times. Then you think about 16 of the last 25 titles West. And that's not counting, you know, the 99 Spurs, 15 of the last 25 MVPs West. The hot number one picks that have gone to the West, Wemby Flag Zion, Anthony Davis, just in the last 15 years. The best run teams, Golden State, Oklahoma City, San Antonio, maybe Boston, Miami. So three of the five in the west and then they have most of the good players right now. And yet the balance seems to be shifting. Are you noticing this at the games you're doing?

[B]

Yeah, for sure. I think the gap has been closed and I think I'd look at it a couple different ways. So the first way I would try to interpret this question is let's look at the top teams in terms of viability and likelihood to actually win a title now this year. So when you look at that, clearly you'd have to give an edge to the Western Conference.

[A]

Top two. Top two goes to the west, plus Denver.

[B]

Yeah, I think so. I think you're right. I think the top two. I don't know any Eastern Conference team would be favored in a series against either Oklahoma City or San Antonio. I don't care who comes out of the East. They're going to be an underdog against either one of those teams. And then you've got Denver sitting there. You're right, because they got that next group of four after the top two in the West. You know, you got Lakers, you got Minnesota, you got Houston, you got Denver.

[A]

Right.

[B]

All of them have been inconsistent for different reasons. When I look at those four teams, the one team I look at and go, you know what? I still have a belief that this is going to be a very difficult team to play and could go on a deep run in the postseason. That's Denver of the group, because I know how good they were early. That was one injury after another all season long. And now they're starting to get these guys trickling back. Christian Brown's back, Aaron Gordon, Peyton Watson is right around the corner and. And he's, by the way, is a completely different player that you're injecting back into the mix than he was when, when, you know, beginning of the season. So I look at Denver still and I go, there's still enough time with 16 games to go to get all these guys back, figure out your rotation and put together an impressive close to the season to make you think like, hey man, Denver is very much in the mix. So you're right. Denver would be the next team right now.

[A]

They have a top one, top two, top three guy, wherever you want to put Jokic, which is one of the recipes for winning the title.

[B]

You need to have no doubt about it.

[A]

One of the best guys in the league. All right, so go to the East.

[B]

There's no doubt. Then you look at the east and I mean right now you'd look at Detroit and Boston, to me, as the top two, right? Then you've got the Knicks and Cavs, be the next two. And then you get down and start getting into teams like Toronto, Miami, Orlando and Philly.

[A]

This is. I'm delighted.

[B]

Hey, look, man, it's crazy because we're doing all these marquee games. The slate that they gave us with the group that I'm with this year, with Mike and Richard, the group that I'm with most of the time, you get that slate of games, you're so excited. I've only had, I think last night or a couple nights ago was my second Boston game. Sunday we did Boston, Cleveland. That was my second Boston game of the year. I haven't seen him in a couple of months. So when you're watching them on tv, you can get a perspective. And I'm a big fan of what they're doing. It's incredible story and Missoula to me. I've just been so impressed with his coaching job this year. But when you see him in person, it's a whole nother level of belief in them. And what I saw on Sunday was a couple of things. They're so smart, they're so sharp. They do not make mistakes with their communications defensively at all. Like when you're watching teams and Oklahoma City team was the gold standard for that the last couple of of years. Boston's on that level. They do not make mistakes on like help and recover situations where two guys are flying at a shooter or. Or somebody fails to rotate on the baseline when it's their turn, they just don't make those mistakes. They don't run back in transition. And two guys flare off to the same side of the court when there's only one player there. They communicate those matchups.

[A]

They just.

[B]

They don't get burned early. When you're that smart, you communicate that well. And then a couple metrics stand out to me. Turn over the ball less than any team in the league. They're not hurting themselves, and they protect the paint better than any team in the league. When you do those two things alone, you've got a great chance. And now on top of it, the way they share it, and you're getting Tatum back. I was so impressed with what I saw Sunday because, look, the Cavs treated that like a very big game because the Celtics have beaten them twice. You could just tell by the intensity of Kenny Atkinson, like the pregame conversation we had with him. He. They. He was like, no, man, we need to show up today because this is. This team's gotten us twice. We've got Mitchell coming back today. Harden's playing through this. They didn't have Jared Allen, and that's a big loss. So I don't want to just, you know, just kind of chew that because he's playing great. But still, they. Boston dismantled them. Dismantled them. And it was so impressive, Bill, that I'm going, man, Tatum finds that. That little extra burst that he doesn't have and you wouldn't expect him to have right now, if he gets some of that back in time by the start of the playoffs or by the second round of the playoffs. Absolutely. Would not be surprised if Boston wins the Eastern Conference now. Detroit's been the best team all year. They're not playing as well right now. Boston has closed the gap with them. And then you have New York and Cleveland. I think a little bit behind both of those teams in the way I view them.

[A]

So in the top seven, you could argue the top three are the west and then the next four are the East. I like all four of these teams better than anyone. After the. The three in the West, I don't trust.

[B]

After the Nuggets, yeah, I don't trust.

[A]

Minnesota has finally lost my trust. I was holding on, holding on, holding on. I've just given up. After these two LA games, they're going to have to win me back. And then lakers, you know, LeBron will come back and they'll go back to what they looked like when they just have not been able to figure out Luka, LeBron and Reaves together, they can't do it. When it, when one of them's out, people, it's a little better. It's the best. When it's Luke and Reaves and we all kind of see it, you know, it's like at some point, basketball doesn't lie. Like, guys play harder, things look smoother, the ball kind of falls into place and I don't know, it is what it is. It's weird to think that LeBron would make a team worse. And I'm not saying as a player he's worse or anything like that. It's just, it's a weird fit. And he's the odd man out. They're better with the other two guys with the ball running through those guys.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, look, it's. It's one of those things where, like, you know, you're not going to say, I'm not going to say. Like, I think it's. It would be lunacy to sit there and say, oh, they're better without LeBron. I'm not going to say that LeBron James is too good a player. But there is a vibe to an offense and you can't just completely ignore the fact that, you know, Luke and Austin have played well together on the court. They've had another unit where LeBron is out there by himself without those guys, with a different group of guys, and that group has played really well. So the three of them together, I mean, you just look at the numbers. It hasn't been, I think what certainly J.J. redick and the Lakers expected, and now LeBron's out right now, you know, he's going to be coming back and you're going to have to figure this out best you can as you head into the postseason. I think your point about looking at the top of the east and then these teams in the West. So we agreed on Oklahoma City, San Antonio, and then Denver being the next team. So that leaves Houston and Houston and the Lakers and the Timberwolves. To me, all three of those teams are flawed. But they've had stretches this year of a, you know, seven to 10 game stretch where they look really good and you're like, man, that's a lot of talent and it's coming together. And then they hit another one of those stretches where they have, like, for Houston, they'll have a. They'll blow an 18 point game to lead to the Knicks in the fourth quarter and they can't run their offense and you're like, okay, there's their fatal flaw. And they can't shoot. You look at the Lakers. Some nights you go, defensively, it's just not good enough. It's never going to be good enough. Their offense isn't going to be so good that it overcomes it. That's like their flaw. And then for Minnesota, it's just been. There's nights you watch them and you're like, wow, man, like, I thought they were so much better. And then, you know, you don't watch them for a little bit and you pick them up a couple of weeks later and you watch a few games and you're like, man, I don't know. Like, this team still looks like they could potentially really threaten somebody. So the problem is this. It's the same word with all of those teams. Inconsistency. And even the Nuggets, you'd use the same word. It's inconsistent. But I think you still have faith in what their whole group looks like because you got a taste of it at the start of the year and you saw how dominant they were before these guys started going out left and right. So I have more faith in them than those other teams, Knicks and Cavs. I kind of know exactly what they are. And look, they're teams that I don't think is going to be easy to play, but I think if they're squaring off with, you know, Detroit and Boston in the second round, I'm going to favor Detroit and Boston to win those series.

[A]

Yeah, Minnesota, the defense, I don't know what happened to it this year. Last night against the Clippers, I went two weeks ago in person, and I thought they played some really good defense against the Clips. But the Clips also didn't have a point guard. Garland wasn't playing and they really took advantage of that. Last night. Garland played and Minnesota just got their ass kicked like they couldn't stop. Kawhi, they're getting beat in fast breaks. You were doing the Denver game, so you didn't see it, but they have nights where they just look like shit. And then Houston, last 30 games, they're 18th in net rating. They're a terrible three point shooting team. Like, it feels like they're giving away. They're like minus five to minus seven on three point shots every night. It feels like. So they're trying to make that up. Men are the same offensive rebounding. I gotta be honest, like you could talk me into Miami or Charlotte being as dangerous as those three teams, as that, as that Houston, Minnesota, Lakers group Because at least with Charlotte, we have this pretty big sample size of them being a top five net rating team and they can shoot and they bring things to the table. And then my. What's happened with Miami? You know, the team, I. They drive me nuts. I call them the zombie heat. They just, every time you think they're dead, they climb out of their grave and they start doing this and walking around. Now they're doing it again. You don't want to see those teams in a six. I'd rather see Minnesota than freaking Miami at this point. And I'm shocked by that. I thought Minnesota was a stealth contender.

[B]

I said, we were just sitting around the green room last night and we had interviewed the coaches, so we kind of, you know, got that little bit of time to kill and you're just kind of prepping for the game. You're getting amped for the game. And I was just looking through some stuff and I. And I started to throw a trivia question out to the room. I said, I got, I got a question for you. There are five teams in the NBA right now that have winning streaks of four or greater. And now it's actually five teams with winning streaks. Five or greater.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Who are they? And it was like, quickly, you know, my boy Ryan Ruko rattles them off. He takes a lot of pride in these trivia questions, right? He's like, he's like, well, Oklahoma City, San Antonio. I'm like, bang, bang, got two right there. He's like, oh, or Orlando. Orlando's hot. I'm like, yep, there you go. There's three. I said, who are the other two? It was Miami and Atlanta. So I'm going, I'm going. Do you understand? Three of the hottest teams in the NBA right now are in the play in territory in the Eastern Conference. Like three. And that's not even counting Charlotte, who doesn't have the winning streak going right now, but over, over the course of the last six weeks, you look at their body of work and it's unbelievably impressive. So you're right. Like, there's a lot going on right now with, like, that part of the Eastern Conference race. You're not getting as much of that in the West. You kind of know, like, what those top six are going to look like. Phoenix has been an incredible story. They won three straight without Dylan Brooks, and Booker was banged up for a while. Amazingly, they actually have a shot still to be six.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And push one of those teams into the play in. And that would be. Honestly, that would be one of the most shocking stories and also impressive at the same time in the part of Phoenix. But could you imagine if you push like Minnesota or the Nuggets or the Lakers into the play in the Phoenix Suns, especially without Dylan Brooks for a long stretch the way he's played this year. So your point is well taken. About the comparing the two conferences, it's still a little heavier at the very top because of what you have in the West. But then when you start to look at the totality of then you go like three through whatever eight and you look how impressive these teams have been in the Eastern Conference. Man, it's no question the gap has been significantly narrowed.

[A]

Well, a couple other things with that. So Schumann had this stat that I thought was fun. You take out the Raptors and you take the next 1, 2, 3, next 7 teams against the top 8 in the west are 45 and 44. So basically everybody but the Raptors. The Raptors are 1 and 11 against the top 8 in the West. So they dragged it down and the Raptors are free falling right now and I think might get caught by a couple teams. So that's one thing. The other thing is the east has had really bad luck and the west hasn't. Giannis, Embiid, Halliburton, Tatum, those are four of the best, I don't know, 15 to 20 players in the league, all of them are gone and the west hasn't had the same kind of injury stuff. And you think like if we had just had a completely healthy Giannis season and we had had, I guess maybe we're never getting another embiid season. But Phillies had between embiid. Maxi's now hurt, George gets suspended. They've had some bad luck. And then if Halliburton was playing, I think Indiana would be a playoff team. So I wonder like with all these guys coming back next year combined with whatever happens with the lottery, which I think you know, that's going to be a free for all for those top four picks. It might actually flip next year. We might have OKC and San Antonio at the top. But then I think that the bulk might be in the east and I don't really have an explanation. Somebody was asking me about this, like what's the explanation for this century? Why? And I think some of it is just luck with drafts. Some of it is some of the dumber teams I think were in the east, right? You have a team like Charlotte that's just been really stupid for 20 years. You know, Sacramento can claim the west as the stupid title. But there's a lot of dumb teams in the East. But I just think. And then you've had some east guys go West. But if you.

[B]

That's what I was going to say when you started like the migration, right? Shaq, you know, Shaq going west and then like, you know, even in Washington, look what we did with the Sacramento Kings and giving them Chris Weber and gave them. They had where they were contending, right.

[A]

The best five Weber years. Well, I was looking at, if you just look at the best guys this century, most of them are west guys and it's just like a fucking fluke. Curry, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, KD, Joker, Dirk, KG, SGA, Harden, Kawhi, Kid, Russ Nash, CP3, Luca, AD, Clay, Dame. It's like I just listed 25 guys that are like basically all time west or mostly west. And the east just doesn't have the same West. So maybe it'll look.

[B]

You know, it's funny, Kawhi is a West guy, but the one year he went east, he just went every title and then he just went right back, right back to the West. But basically that's a West guy. And it shows you how good the west guys are because he went over there for one year and he won one.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And then he just went back to the Western Conference. So yeah, there's a lot of reasons for it. There's been some, some, some of its luck with drafts in terms of. Of where the ping pong balls bounce. Some of it is just improper evaluation of talent. Yeah. For some of the teams in the east that had top picks. Philadelphia went through it a number of times alone with, with what they went through to get those picks and like you gotta hit on those and they weren't able to. And even the one guy that they really hit on Embiid, you know, with all the injuries, he's, you know, he's had like half of a career of what he should have had probably. So there's a lot of reasons for it. It did create, there's no doubt a huge separation in gap and you could just see it like you would just pull up at any day over the last 10 years. You just pull up the standings on every day and you start just looking at the teams and you'd be down like 7, 8, 9 and you're still looking at quality stuff in the Western Conference. Right. Like good players, teams that you have to show up every night and play against to beat and then you tail off pretty quickly in the east. This is A little different now what the east looks like, particularly if what we're seeing right now out of some of these lower teams. Because that's what it really is, man. It's the depth of quality. That's what we're talking about. And when you start to get into the Orlando's and the Miamis and the Charlottes and the Atlantis and Atlanta. Yeah, like those teams, if those teams can like pick it up and like now it's like wow, man, like you got to show up to beat these guys then now the conversation really is kind of like one of those like flip a coin type situations between which conference you'd rather have. Although I still think most of, I would say the top talent is still in the Western Conference, which are listing names.

[A]

If we were going to play the franchises you would rather be for the next seven years, OKC and San Antonio are 1, 2 in some order levitating over everybody else. Right. There's nobody else you would put in that class, I don't think as when you can all the young stars, they have two potentially generational guys as the lead and then picks to even get more guys. So they have to be the top. The next three I would have are probably Boston, Denver, Indiana in some order. Because Indiana if they can, if they can pull off a top four pick in this draft with Halliburton coming back and Zubots and all this stuff and like some pretty good cap management, the Celtics, all the stuff they've done and then Denver with Yokage and Murray and you know, some, some really great supporting guys. I think that would have to be the next three. But then it gets interesting. Cause now you're talking about Charlotte, Detroit, Houston, Dallas, maybe Minnesota, Cleveland, Atlanta, Lakers, something there. But I think Charlotte and Detroit, when you think like Detroit had what they lose, 25 games in a row. Charlotte was a mess for 20 straight years and now they're at least really in the conversation now. Houston might have blown it. You saw them last night and you know, I, I, I. My big question with them is I wonder if you gave, if you gave them true serum, would they do that KD trade over again?

[B]

Probably. I think they would.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah, I think they would. I think they would because I really believe they looked at themselves internally last year and look, I know they played, you know, Golden State to a seven game series in the first round, but they looked at themselves and said this is just not enough offensively. This is not like a modern enough offense. Now ironically, the Drant's been great for them but they play really slow. The Van Vliet thing hurt them a lot just in terms of leadership and organization on the floor. Like the way they have to start possessions and how deep into the clock they get so often in the course of a game. Now it just so happens they've got some great mid range players. Shangoon operates in the mid range, you know, Thompson with his slashing and cutting and getting the rim. They're a great offensive rebounding team. Like this is their formula to win. But that's not a modernized offense. But it's, it's better than it was last year because of the Durant factor. Reed shepherd has taken a big step forward. Like so now they have like legitimate shooter on the floor to close games. So I do think they would do it again. But I just think the loss of Van Vliet and not really filling that and doing that by committee, the way that they bring the ball up the floor, the way they initiate their offense. I'm watching them last night, I've been watching them all year. But like when you see it again in person, there's just things you notice a little bit more. Like when I'm looking at that end of the floor when they're on offense and like my one eye is going up to that shot clock. And now they've run some action and now invariably the ball gets thrown back out toward half court with like 8, 7, 6. And now they're at 40ft and now here we go. Let's try to get something out of this at the end. Now it just so happens they've got this guy that can and possessions with great shot making. Now he didn't have it last night. Durant looked gassed to me. I mean they played the night before, he just didn't have it last night. And they had a great defensive game plan against him. So it was an anomaly for Kevin Durant, obviously 11 points, but typically most nights he can deliver and it's like, okay, that kind of put a band aid on that possession because Durant hit incredibly tough shot. It's just not a formula that's going to win enough. But it's still, I think better offensively than what they had. So I do think they would do it again. I just, I'm looking at that man and I'm going, how are they going to beat one of these teams they're going to have to go up against potentially in the first round? I mean, you could get a 3, 6, Houston, Denver, how are they going to have enough offense in a series that get to win four times. I actually think they would, I think

[A]

they would lose to the other three teams and I agree with where he landed because they didn't know Van Vliet was going to get hurt when they made that trade. If they knew, if they knew they were going to lose Van Vliet for the year. They're not making the trade, but they didn't know that at the time. And you know what? Something I've been reminded of this season that I've felt strongly about my whole life and it is not the hottest take ever. Point guards are important. Turns out, turns out we need them. Like you look at the Clippers, they, they finally get Darius Garland in there. They haven't had a point guard all year. They had basically James Harden as the point guard for a lot of the year. They traded him for. Garland is hurt. They're patching it together. I went to the Minnesota game two weeks ago and Matheran and Kawhi are basically bringing the ball up and running the offense. Minnesota's pressing them at half court trying to trap them. Garland has been like a revelation for them and I don't even think he's gotten to where he's going to get to. Like he's just coming back. He's getting his game back. Guess what? He's giving them fast breaks, alley oops, ad lib points where he's driving and somebody cuts and he just finds and you get an easy layup. Like there's all these things that come with it and that's what I don't see from Houston this year. Like everything is like, we are doing this sengun. Here's the ball, figure it out. You know, and they don't get any fun stuff. They don't really get fast breaks. They don't get open threes or the threes are open. They're open for a reason. So I, I just don't see what's happening.

[B]

Yeah, and you know, it's, they're like a low volume 3 point shooting team which means they clearly don't make a lot either. The percentage is not terrible. Their percentage is like top 10. But on a nightly basis.

[A]

Yeah, 30 again, that's the thing.

[B]

On a nightly basis. Their deficit is they're like a minus. You know, a lot of nights. Like, oh, they, they scored. The other team scored 15 more points from the three. They scored 24 more points from the three. That's tough, man. When you're talking about a lot of mid range free throws, offensive glass, like that's your Formula, it has to happen for you. You run into teams that, that do a good job of like keeping you to one shot for the most part. Last night, offensive rebounding was not a factor in that game. Denver did a great job. They're, they're a good defensive rebounding team. Not, not, not a great offensive rebounding team, but they can keep you to one shot and it was not a factor in the game. Now Durant is seeing a wall of three guys all night long that they were so committed to having three guys literally in front of him, walling him up. So now he's got to give it up. And so now you're saying, okay, the only chance we have some of these role playing three point shooters. Let's start with Reed shepherd, who's had a very good year for them and shooting the ball just under 40% going into the game. I don't know what he ended up, but at one point he was like one for eight from the three. Yeah. And they were really good. Looks like those are possessions when the teams are committing that much to Durant or Shingoon. And that ball swung Reed shepherd, like you need him to do that. He's made four in a game a ton of times this year and it's amazing how much better they are when he has those nights. So there is a formula against them that you can force certain guys to be open and you've got a great chance to beat them.

[A]

Who's the best point guard you ever played with?

[B]

Hmm. Well, I was a very, very brief time I was in Utah, but I'm so, I'd go, John Stockton. I just missed Jason Kidd in Dallas by a year. He came in the year after I left. Rod Strickland was a great player and a great talent. Played with him. Washington. I played with Tim Hardaway and Golden State, you know, and he was, yeah, he was a great player. I played with him spree well, Chris Mullen, I mean, there's a lot of talent on that team. So I played with some great ones. I'd put all of those guys in that category.

[A]

Did you ever play with, did you ever play with somebody who you were like, wow, this is fucking easy. They're cutting my food for me. I'm just. All I have to do is just stick the fork down and eat it. Like one of those type of point guards, like the Nash types, you know,

[B]

honestly, I'm going to give you a name of an underrated, and I should have mentioned him with this other group. He had a very bizarre injury that Curtailed his career at exactly the time. He was skyrocketing. And for me as a guy to eat, this was the guy that fed me more than anything else with what he created. It was Robert Pack. Wow. Robert Pack.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Remember Robert Pack Corporate? He came to Washington. He is, he was in the top two, I think maybe two or three in the league. And assists about mid season.

[A]

Fastest, fastest. Shit. Built like a brick. Shithouse.

[B]

Explosive.

[A]

Yeah, like.

[B]

And he was turning the corner and putting so much pressure in early offense that. And I love to run, I would run to those, those trail like wing threes after he did all the work. So we had a great thing going. Most people don't know this. Like Robert Pack at that time was in his late 20s, 27, 28. It'd be my guess he's having the career year. He's going to probably make the all star team. And in Washington, we're in Cleveland. It's an off day. We have practice and this has been like an off day on the road in that era. You're taping and scrimmaging like you're not, you're not, you know, you're not walking through stuff. So we're scrimmaging, but we had a lot of guys banged up, so we only had nine. So we get an assistant coach, Derek Smith jumps in practice, we're running some, some, some scrimmaging. And Derek Smith sets a screen on Robert Pack and his, basically his knee went right into the side of Robert Pack's knee. And it wasn't a knee injury, but it was a nerve injury. He went down in a heap. He basically went back to the room, he iced and basically by the next day he could not walk. He couldn't feel his foot. So he basically missed the rest of the year and he, and, and it actually curtailed his entire career. He ended up playing with some other teams over the next few years and I think he might have ended up with the Nets on a. For a brief run and it was just like he couldn't really do any of the things he did before. And it was from that injury. But I, I, from all the guys I played with, that just made it easier for me personally. Robert Pack might be right up there with any of those guys.

[A]

Well, maybe, maybe a weirdo on the Internet will make a nice mixtape of Robert Pack feeding you and you hitting open.

[B]

And he was so good.

[A]

That'd be great.

[B]

He was so good, man. And he, and he also had this, he had this great energy about him. He walked in he always had a smile on his face. And he was one of those guys that was levity in the locker room more than heaviness, moodiness or whatever. Inconsistent personality types. Those guys are tough. He was not like that. He'd love to play basketball and he was, he was a massive talent. So anybody out there, if you're younger and you're listening to this and you're like, Robert Pack, go ahead, pull up a YouTube video of Robert, Robert Pack at his best and just be amazed what that guy could do. Yeah.

[A]

All right, we're going to take a break, come back and talk about Bam. The Bill Simmons podcast is brought to you by FanDuel. Your Friday nights just got a lot of ladder because NBA Happy Hour is happening on FanDuel every Friday from 6 to 7:30pm Eastern. FanDuel's got limited time specials to pregame the weekend boosts bonuses, surprises all live in the app. I'd really focused on the Clippers Chicago game because I think it's probably going to be a little high scoring. I think the Clippers are going to win and I think it'll be a fun game. So I'd probably lean toward like Clippers Moneyline, some kawhi over and then the over for the game. Anyway, that's NBA Happy Hour every Friday from 6 to 7:30 Eastern only on FanDuel, official sportsbook partner of the NBA. Visit FanDuel.com BS to get started. 21 select states are 18 DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Restrictions apply. See [e-mail], game prom code 1-800- gambler, call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatconnecticut this episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. What makes basketball so exciting? All the superior skill on the court. This has been the case my whole life. The craziest thing, I mean, wemby stuff he's doing every game. There's two, three wemby moments. A game where you're like, I don't know if I've ever seen that. The number one thing for me is when he does the screen and roll, he's going to the basket. Somebody throws him an alley oop and he just catches it and dunks it without jumping. It's an alley oop, but it's not an oop. It's just kind of an alley. And every time he does it, I'm like, I've definitely 100% never seen that anymore. It's a superior Play superior Plays aren't just for the NBA, though. Try Michelob Ultra, the official beer partner of the NBA. And a crisp, refreshing, Superior light beer. It's the beer of Max Kellerman. He just told me that. Plus, they're giving you a chance to win courtside seats, custom merch and more. Michelob Ultra Superior is worth playing for. Enter now at michelobaltra.com courtside Michelob Ultra Courtside 2526. No purchase necessary. Open to U.S. residents 21/plus begins on October 1, 2025. Ends on June 30, 2026. Multiple entry periods. See official [e-mail] courtside for free entry, entry deadlines and prizes and details. Bam Adebayo. 83 points more than doubles his career high, which was 41 in the running for single weirdest and most unexpected NBA achievement of my lifetime. I was trying to think of anything else that was this weird and I think it would have to. The only thing I can think of that came close was when The warriors went 140 and 24 back to back years when they won 67 and 73. Like just that that happened that we thought the 96, 97 Bulls would be this North Star for greatness in regular season. Then Curry and the warriors were like, yeah, we're going to win 140 games in two years. Like that was really weird. Thompson and George Gervin scoring the 73 and 63 in the same day.

[B]

Last day of the season, no threes.

[A]

That was weird. This was fucking crazy because I like if we did a draft and we just drafted who would score 83 points, I don't think he would have been one of the first 50 picks.

[B]

Definitely not.

[A]

Definitely not.

[B]

And that's not, and that's not even, that's not some sort of slight. It's just, it's the nature of his game. Like you respect the hell out of him for a lot of reasons and you know, in certain nights he can hit you with a 20 to a 30 point game. I think he had one 40 point game in his career. I believe I read the next morning. Yeah, and, and so no, that's, that's what we're saying. It's just not his, it's not the nature of his game. To be a voracious shot taker and like guy that puts up big numbers, he does a lot of other things to help you win. So you're 50 might be actually a low number. It might be that number might be a lot higher. The number of Guys that you would pick and just go, okay, you know, oh well, Benedict Matheran, like that guy could get really hot one night because he's a scorer. Like all he thinks about, like scoring and attacking, that's not really what Bam does. So you're right. It's, it's.

[A]

You could have told me.

[B]

Crazy thing.

[A]

You could have told me like Cam Thomas, you could have told me Pascal

[B]

Siako, great one actually, you could have

[A]

told me Peyton Pritchard. I probably would have believed it more. It did make me think, because I watched the whole. Basically from midway through second quarter on, it did make me think that somebody's going to get 100. I have a bunch of takeaways. My first one is 100 is going to happen because he didn't even make a lot of his threes and he missed like nine free throws. And there's a replica of what he did in that game that I think somebody else could do who would just hit more threes. And even like one of the best examples of this was the Kobe. Like a couple weeks before he had 81, he had this game against Dallas where he basically had like 61 in three quarters and he was like 22 for 28 and made all these free throws. And I always felt like if he had just stayed in, he probably could have gotten a 90. And I wrote a magazine piece about it and then two weeks later, like basically stay in, go for it if you have the chance. And then two weeks later he had the 81. But it did. So my first question is, did this make you think 100 points is possible?

[B]

No, it didn't. And I tell you why now. So to even get up in this stratosphere game can't be competitive. I think you and I would agree on that. Yeah, like you're not. You can't get a guy going for 75, 80 in a one possession game. Because if that's the case, right, you got to seriously question what's going on with the defensive scheme of their opponent.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So it's got to be a blowout. And I still think as a coach I put myself in that spot. If some dude is tuning me up to that extent and I'm talking way before that guy gets to 65. Okay, I'm sorry, but the ball is going to be forced out of his hands. Yeah, it just is. And that's why, you know, you look at, to me, the prototypical player that would have to be someone you look at to get it. Threes and free throws are a big part of it, but it's also the ability to, to create your own deep shot off the dribble. Yeah. And that's as a part of your game, not like a situation where Bam out of Bayou takes 22 threes in a game. And I don't even know what the most he'd ever taken in a game before that night. But that's obviously a crazy number for Bamba. No, I'm talking about guys like Luca and Anthony Edwards and like, and these guys that take a lot of those type of shots and you come out one night and you dip your toe in the water early. Luka hits five or six threes in the first quarter, which he absolutely could, because I always joke that he's the one guy in the league that like the very first possession after the tip is a heat check.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like he's, he's the only guy that does that like immediately. Let me see how I feel tonight. So if he comes out and he goes bang, bang, five, six threes, and he has a 25 or 30 point first quarter, you're thinking like, man, it could be on tonight. Like, he might go for it. I still think that the coach of the other team, the staff of the other team, like those players and like just their pride in general, like, no, that's. They're not going to let this happen. We are going to make sure. Now look, he might even has a 15, 20 point second quarter. And now you're at 45, 48 at halftime. I guarantee you that's going to happen at the start of the third quarter.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So, you know, this was a team they ran into that's clearly like they're not really trying to win games right now. They're one of those teams that's trying to position themselves for a high pick. And so the competitive environment on the other side was not really there. So Bam. Adebayo kept doing it and I kept waiting for it to kick in. And they finally tried really late, way too late to try to stop them from getting 81, but it was too late by that point. Most teams are not going to allow a guy to get up in 45, 50 points at halftime without some massive adjustment to start the second half. And now they're just going to have to work way too hard to get themselves to 75, 80 by the end of the third to give themselves a chance at 100. So I still don't think 100 is going to fall.

[A]

Luka was the guy I thought of that could do it because I same thing you Watch Luca the first three minutes of a game, and he. And he does kind of do this to see if he has it.

[B]

You know, I went to a game, that's the thing. The other thing it has to have is mentality. So we talk about, like, you have to. About, you know, the. The three point shooting, free throws, obviously just the talent overall to get your own shot, but also the mentality. It's almost like what I would call a lack of, like, you know, self consciousness about, like, I'm shooting too much, you know what I mean? So you have to have that too. And if you get it going, like to keep going and have teammates that want, hey, man, it's pretty cool. Let's see if we can do something for him. And I still think defenses would not allow it to happen by the. What they could employ against you just to make sure, even if you give up on winning the game, right? We're not going to let this dude, no one's going to do this to our team tonight mentality. That's why I think it'll be hard for anybody to get to that level. So I didn't think really we'd see, you know, an 80 point game.

[A]

Well, that's why Bam couldn't make those. Once they really started guarding him on the threes. He's just not that kind of shooter. I think for somebody to do it, I think you'd have to hit 15 threes and you'd have to go to the line at least like 20 times, right? So you're getting like six, like two thirds of the points basically from threes and free throws. So if you get to 66 that way, then you need to make 17 twos to get there, which is crazy. But if you're. I. I wrote. I went back.

[B]

Think about that, man.

[A]

Well, I went back and I read the column. I wrote after Kobe hit 81, because I watched the game. I had some. Somebody call me and I was watching like, basically maybe the last half of it. And I watched every.

[B]

By the way, I watched every play of that game. I just happened to be at home scrolling around and I. There was no reason to be invested in Sunday night.

[A]

Yeah, it was just a league.

[B]

I just like, oh, Lakers. I like watching Kobe. I'll watch the game. So I actually happened to watch that game live as it was playing out, right? This one, this one with Bam. I was like, I was actually in Denver. I was eating dinner at the hotel, sitting at the bar, had a bunch of stuff. I was kind of working, prepping for the game, watching, I kept thinking, what was the other game that was on?

[A]

It was.

[B]

It was a double header that night on one of the Nets.

[A]

Celtic Spurs.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, that's right.

[A]

It was.

[B]

It was bought. It was Boston, San Antonio. So I was watching that game, and all of a sudden you're getting these text messages coming in. So now I kind of put my phone up, propped up. My iPad's on this side, and I'm looking one eye on it. And then basically from the middle of the third quarter on, I kind of just went all in on the Heat game. I just watched the rest of it.

[A]

Yeah, well, it was funny hearing people talk about the Kobe game because. And I spelled this out in the piece I wrote. That team was built for him to be selfish that year, and he kind of embraced that, too. But Odom was the only other good offensive player in the team, and at some point, they realized, Kobe, go nuts, be a ball hog. Like, I was comparing him to the guy in Teen Wolf, just, like, having the ball, stealing it from his own teammates, joking about, like, this is our whole offense is this guy, right? And he would take 28, 29 shots a game and 12 free throws, and that's. They decided this is our best chance to win. And he embraced it. And there was something kind of. I wrote the phrase inherently selfish because, like, in the 81 point, gave me a 2. 2 assists, right? He's just out there. He's doing his thing. But it was also riveting to watch because it's like this guy's basically. This is like watching a video game, you know? And Toronto was trying to do some stuff and send multiple guys, and he was just solving everything and just killing them, like. Like he had done to Dallas a couple weeks before the Hullabaloo after people thought it was, you know, it was pretty split. It was very similar to the Bam thing. Like, this isn't basketball. What is this? He chased this near the end. Is this a good thing? Like, his. His teammates don't even seem that happy about it. There was a lot of, like, that kind of vibe, the Bam thing. The teammates were, like, delighted. Like, they were celebrating, like, won the title. And they really wanted me to get it. And I think that's what made it so unusual. They were like, holy shit. Like, Bam's. Bam's having the night of his life. This is the best.

[B]

No doubt. And that's the thing. I know there's a lot of talk the next morning. Some people really just hated what they watched, and they saw it And I looked at it differently completely. I looked at it like if you're talking about a guy that garners the utmost respect from everybody on their on, on his team and everybody on the coaching staff, everybody in the organization that you're happy for something like this, this, this, this crazy night to happen, it's him. And so all that support behind him. And so I'm looking at SPO who I've got so much respect for, and I'm going, okay, finds himself in this situation where I felt like he did have an obligation to the player because this is a one off night, a historic night. This guy's got a chance to do something that's only been done a couple of times in the history of the league. He's on pace to do it. It's almost my obligation to help him do it. I was sitting there watching Spell and I'm thinking, gosh, is he hoping that he makes all these free throws? Because imagine if, imagine if what was going on with, you know, they were fouling to get the ball back and then the Wizards were failing other players so that Bam couldn't shoot. So he goes to the line and he's got 81 and he's going to the line for these two free throws. What if he missed both free throws and you got a minute and a half to go and now poor Eric Spoelstrain, like they have to keep this up now at that point you're all in. You're all in to try to get you past 81, I believe. So I'm looking at Spo going, he doesn't really want to be a part of this environment with this, the weirdness of the, of what we're doing right now, like the basketball part. But I also felt like a lot of love and admiration for his player and he was trying to help his player have a historic night. It's just like the same thing when I say when teams, you know, the year that Golden State won 73 games and people are talking about, well, you know, take your foot off the gas and I'm going, man, I don't know. There's something you can accomplish as a group. The greatest record in history of the league and you have a chance to do that. I almost feel like there's an obligation to do that, to put yourselves in the, in the record books, man, for eternity. And now look, turns out they didn't win a championship that year. And people were pointing at that. I thought there was no correlation there. I really didn't. But it's this situation here, you have a chance. It's right in front of you. Spolza is going to help him do that. His teammates are going to help him do it. And he was able to get it done. Even though it looked a lot different, like at the end of that game than. Than certainly Kobe's game. I don't know what Wilt's game looked like at the end of that game, so I don't know what that looked like. But that, that was. That was a strange end of the game. A lot of people had a problem with that. It was very controversial topic.

[A]

All these games have that, though. They, like. I remember when Larry Bird tried to score 60 against the Hawks and they. They were like trying to foul to get the ball back at the end. Spoelstra had, I don't know if you saw it, he had a press conference saying, he's like, I apologize to no one. He was like, look, we had a

[B]

chance to say exactly what I would expect him to say, 100%. And I love that. I do. And like I said, for me, he's, you know, he's one of the guys that represents the gold standard in this league for coaching and a guy that I would pick if I had any 10 players in the world to coach, whether it was like 8 year olds or the Olympic team or, you know, a foreign team or an NBA team. And I had one month to prepare. Eric Spoltz is fine by me if you want to go with him to coach that team. And it might be who I would pick. So I have so much respect for him. I'm glad he said that. There's one other point I want to make about this that we talk about. Profile of player that it would take to do something like this. There is another component. Strength and stamina.

[A]

Yeah, right, right.

[B]

Because. Okay, so look at, look at the guys. We're talking about Kobe. Maniacal, Maniacal. With his stamina and his drive. And like, that was adrenaline for him, the competitive adrenaline. You have to have it. You know, you look at a guy like we talked about, Luca, the strength to do it. Well, I'm saying the physical strength, not to be able to take that many shots and not get worn out. I don't think Luka would get worn out if he had one of those nights going. But the reason I bring it up is look at a couple other guys. Like, that would be really tough for a guy like Curry.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Okay. You have to make 20 threes and then you're still 40 points short. Where's that coming from? Okay, they'll give you 10 free throws. Can you still go make 15 other shots? With all of the running and the dribbling and, like, he's 6 forties, kind of slightly built, and, like, it's a lot of contact.

[A]

Wemby.

[B]

What about Wemby? Same thing.

[A]

He'd wear down.

[B]

Like, that's a lot of physical toll, like, on a guy. It's built like that and, like, the amount of contact he'd be facing all night. Now, look, one thing he does have going for him, he could shoot a three whenever he wanted to. Even over double teams and get it off. So if he wanted to shoot 30 threes in a game, he could. And no one could really stop that unless you just flat out put three guys on him and try to deny him the ball. But I think that other component, that's why I got, like, Harden would be a good candidate, like when he was in Houston, because he could make 10, 12, 15 threes, and he could also get to the line 15, 20 times and make some floaters. And he has the strength to foul

[A]

the other team out for an entire game. He could foul out the top four segment. So a lot of people are asking me the last two days how I felt about this, because they know I care about the history and stuff. First of all, I love when the guys go for it, because ultimately it's a stupid regular season game. And as you said earlier, when you have a chance to make history, you should go for it. I remember Carmelo took him out. Took himself out of a game when he had, like, 62 in his, like, his peak with the Knicks, he took himself out. I forget how many minutes there were. It was like, five, six minutes left, and I was like, dude, stay in. Like, this is it. This is your one chance. When they. Every time, for the rest of eternity, when somebody else is in a situation like this, they show all the names, and you could be one of the names. Like, that's. That's cool. Nobody will remember the circumstances. But the biggest thing to me, and this is what people are like, well, that's bastardizing the game. What they did at the end, Miami, like, guess who's bastardizing the game? Fucking Washington. Wash these teams that tank and, you know, trade for guys that are injured or come up. Like, what Utah's doing in Sacramento, like, hey, is there a surgery you need? Because we. You should get the surgery now while our season's still going on. Like, we have. We have eight teams in the league that are completely bastardizing Every aspect of this season for ticket holders, you know, for competitiveness, we have games where teams win by 40, 45, 50 points. So I'm like, guess what, Washington? There's 30 NBA teams. You're all professional athletes. You're all getting played. Fucking stop the guy. If you don't whine about it, the rest of the league can't be like, oh, this is like, these guys are professional athletes.

[B]

You have a job.

[A]

Go stop it. He's got 70. Don't let him score anymore.

[B]

Here's the other point. Let's go back. Let's go to the start of the game. Okay, I understand where the wizards are

[A]

at 30 and a quarter.

[B]

Bill not. Did he. Not only did he get 30 and a quarter, did you notice their starting lineup?

[A]

Oh, I noticed.

[B]

This is. This is. This is who the. And I'm not knocking these guys, but I'm just saying there was no Tyler hero. No Tyler hero, no Norman Powell. I'm talking about from a. From a. From a game plan. I understand. Even if you're not trying to win just from a game plan, you're. You're. You're a professional team. It's Bam Adebayo, Myron Gardner, Pelly Larson, Davion Mitchell, and Yaka Ches.

[A]

Yeah, maybe guard Bam.

[B]

Maybe Bam is the guy that you're looking at on the whiteboard going, you know what? We probably want to run an extra guy at Bam, right? Because they don't have Hero and they don't have Norman Powell. Primarily,

[A]

they were giving them wide open threes. It's like, this is the only score they have, right?

[B]

And even if. Even if that played out the way it did, and you're going, well, who's expecting Bam to come out and shoot like that early in the game? I got news for you, man. The huddle during the. Between the first and second quarter, maybe then is a good time to address this. Or I got an idea. How about when he's up to 55 or whatever he had at halftime? Maybe at halftime you go, you know what? I think Bam's feeling it. Maybe we should run an extra guy at Bam. Or how about when he's at 65, approaching 70, you finally go, you know what? That's it. Line in the sand. He's not getting any more. But they didn't really. Until it was obvious that he had a legitimate shot at 80 points. Now it was like, that's when they started full court, two guys denying him, and, like, all this crazy stuff started playing out. But that should have taken Place way before that. Way before. Just from a pride standpoint. Look, your team, Washington, they've got 16 wins. Do you also want your team to have that? Seriously?

[A]

No.

[B]

You want them carrying that around, too?

[A]

No, these guys. And we saw this with Philly, during the process, you're just teaching. It's like, oh, this is all going to be good because when the draft comes, we're going to top four pick everybody you have on your team, you're just putting a stink on. And I was saying this during the process with Philly, like, you're teaching these guys that losing is okay. Skipping. Skipping games are okay. You have a coach. I was watching Will Hardy last night. They're playing the Knicks. Utah's beating the Knicks right in the. In third quarter. And it's like they're trying to lose. And it's like, oh, this will be fun. How are they going to. They ended up losing by 17. The Knicks flipped the game, I think, by like 27, 28 points. And they're cutting to Will Hardy, and he's just kind of like, you know, it's like, I don't even know if Will Hardy's a good coach. I know that if Ime had left the Celtics and Will Hardy wasn't already at Utah, Will Hardy would have been the coach because he was the number one, right? He goes to Utah, Will Hardy can

[B]

coach, and he's one of the really bright, young.

[A]

But I'm just saying, we haven't seen it on them because they're not letting him coach.

[B]

They haven't just. They haven't just turned him loose and go, hey, man, every night, go try to win, right? But I'm confident when that opportunity comes for him, whether that's in Utah or somewhere else, wherever it is, I think you're right. I think he'll be able to prove that when he's in that environment.

[A]

Three straight years of watching him basically call off the dogs when they have a chance to win in February, March, April. But anyway, with Washington, when I watch these teams, I'm like, you know what? We should be trying to embarrass these teams. It's embarrassing to watch this. It's embarrassing that they're charging full ticket prices for it and all of these dudes. I just don't understand how this helps Washington long term to just be humiliated by Bam Adebayo. And I hope it keeps happening because maybe this stuff will change. I don't know.

[B]

It sounds like you and I are in agreement then. Like you, it sounds like I had far More problem with what Washington was doing than with what Miami was doing. Far more problem. Yeah, okay. Because that's how I felt. And I was actually a little bit surprised at the. The volume out there the next day or even that night, but certainly the next day. This was a talking point everywhere of how many people were like, so upset with like, what the Heat were doing. I have a much bigger problem with what the Wizards did, and I actually totally get where Eric Spolster was coming from the organization. And this is a guy that's revered and he plays the right way every single night. And he had this crazy start to a game, and they decided to go for it against an opponent that was going to be willing to let that happen.

[A]

Right.

[B]

For the most part.

[A]

And everyone else go for it. And everyone has amnesia with everything that's happened in the past. And anytime somebody has chased points or any of this stuff, the game usually degenerates down the stretch like that.

[B]

So let me ask to this question. And last. Last one on this for me. So then the other thing that people are talking about was just like that, that. That full screen. Do you have a problem now with the full screen that says Wilt Bam Kobe when you put those three numbers up there? Because I just don't understand why people are so upset about that. And there's a lot of people out there because I'm just not, man. It is what it is. It's the nature of the game. People are going to break records, they're going to put up numbers. Like lists change all the time. And so that was like. Felt like a lot of people, like that was their problem. Because it was Kobe Bryant.

[A]

No, the Kobe thing that like. And he was a big Kobe fan. I actually was wondering if he got 81 and he was going to leave and be like, I'm going to share 81 with Kobe. But he was like, no, breaking it for the full screen thing. I like it because years from now, every time we'll see, we'll be like, oh, my God, remember when Bam Adebayo had 83 points? I think it's going to be a fun wrinkle. And by the way, this is what makes basketball great. We have these seasons that are too long. Weird shit happens during the season. Scott Skyhouse had 30 assists once.

[B]

I was in that game.

[A]

Bill Russell had you. Right? Bill Russell had 55 rebounds in a playoff game. Right? The. I forget George McGinnis had 420 turnovers in a season. Like, there are these great weird numbers that. That's Part of what makes basketball great and the baby.

[B]

Hey, I called. I called the NBA's only 30, 20, 20 game in history last year. I was on the call for that Jokic game.

[A]

Now that was a game.

[B]

30, 20, 20.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Never thought I'd ever see. I was just like honored when the game ended that I was a part of that. To watch. To watch that never thought that was possible. And that's a player to do that.

[A]

That's the highest. Well, I think the difference with Kobe versus Bam is. It's weird to say it, but Kobe was just so good during that stretch that there was a real artistry to a game after game. You felt like, look, they're building this around him being able to maybe score 50 to 70 every night. You just don't know when it's happening. He was weirdly, must watch tv. Even though the team was like, relatively not that happy. I don't think Phil Jackson loved it, but they won 46 games basically with two offensive players and no bench. And it was just because of what he was doing that after I voted for him for MVP that year, I thought it was the best thing anyone did that year. Even though I didn't really love it as like a basketball fan who loves values like team basketball and shit like that.

[B]

But that was the year that he had that outrageous. It was like a super long streak of 40 point games, right? Was that that year?

[A]

No, that was earlier. This was the year he averaged. He averaged 35 a game this year. So I don't know. I thought it was fun and it mixed up the season. It was fun to watch people get so bad about it, get mad about the tanking, get mad about teams putting out shitty lineups and not knowing how to play defense.

[B]

I hear you, man. There's a lot of other things you could get upset about right now as opposed to a guy having like an epic night and then maybe not maybe. Definitely sort of bending the end of that game to try to allow him to get that thing across the finish line to the number he was trying to get to, which was 82 at least. And, and, and the guy. But the guys, you know, the guys start to the game dictated. And he even said it like, well, when did you start thinking about like this? You know, you could go for something like this. He goes, you know, after the first quarter when I had 30, I kind of was thinking, like, I could do

[A]

some special things tonight. You know, the other thing.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

The crowd, that Miami crowd, which I've seen good versions of it. Bad versions of it, especially during the regular season. That crowd was delirious down the stretch like that. Seemed like that was the most fun basketball game you could have gone to randomly. There's some great deals out there in the NBA wilderness that are ripe for the taking, which we're going to be diving to in this special segment. It is called Best deal Ever hall of Fame brought to you by Domino's. Now they've got their own best deal ever going. Any pizza, any toppings for 9.99. Let's see how it stacks up against the best deals in the game right now. Well, in the NBA, if you can hit on a rookie contract guy, that's great. Now if it's a top five, you're going to be paying that guy 10, 11 million. If you can get lucky with somebody outside of the ladder or even a second round pick, that's the sweet spot. That is the best deal. Or sometimes you can do the extension with somebody and then they outperform the extension. Like Peyton Pritchard on the Celtics. Really good example. They paid him. Now he's outperforming the contract. The other way would be some sort of a deal after the deadline. You know, like the Clippers ending up with Darius Garland, who's now reinvigorated their team. All great deals, but Domino's best deal ever. That is the MVP of deals. It's hitting the sweet spot every time. Order any pizza with all the toppings you want for only 9.99. Get Domino's. Best deal ever. Get it right now. Get it today. Price is higher in some locations. Select this online only offer from February 23rd until April 6th. Size availability varies by crust type. Max 7 toppings 6 for New York style and pan crust. Stuffed crust extra excludes XL and specialty pizzas. Minimum purchase required for delivery prices, participation, delivery area and charges may vary. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Imagine a game where you're on the court solo. No coach, no teammates, no one in the stands. Stressful, right? Sometimes life can feel like that too. That's when State Farm they show up. They're on the bench ready to help you find the right coverage when it matters most through an agent online or even on the app. State Farm with the assist. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability and eligibility vary by state. This episode is brought to you by TaxAct. Like an expert coach, TaxAct offers step by step guidance and guaranteed accuracy when filing taxes. Get tips along the way. Add expert assist to talk to tax experts and let our experts do your taxes for you with expert full service. TaxAct helps you find the deductions and credits you deserve so you can get them over with. Visit taxact.com to learn more. Conditions apply. See taxact.com for details. I want to talk about Kawhi Leonard Quick. I have a couple other things for you. KAWHI Leonard. They're 29 and 22. When he plays, he's averaging 31 a game. In those wins, they're the Clippers are 27, 11 their last 38. During that stretch, he's 30, 30 a game, basically, and almost a 50, 40, 90 guy. And he was so good last night against Minnesota. You missed it because you were doing the other game. He just like killed Minnesota. Like, I actually think this is the best I've ever seen him play. So I was like, man, this is a little unusual. He's 34. He has all these knee injury stuff. Like, wonder how many times somebody has averaged 28 a game who's been 34 years or older. How many guys do you think have done this? If you had to guess, 34 or

[B]

older, average 34 years old or older,

[A]

28 a game, man. Like, you think there would be a few guys, right?

[B]

I'm going to say five or less.

[A]

Okay. Michael Jordan once, Bernard King. Did you play with Bernard that year? 91 Wizards, 91 Bullets. No. Steph Curry in 2023, LeBron twice and Kevin Durant and all of those guys did it at 34 except for LeBron the two years 37 and 38. And it was like, wow, this is more unusual than I expected. And this is why I think when we talk about titles and I don't think we do a good enough job with it because the league just favors young people, especially in April, May, June. Right? You're just better off having shay at age 26, 27 than you are having Kevin Durant at age 37. You're better off having Jamal Murray in his mid 20s than you are having Steph Curry in his mid 30s. Once we get to a certain level. But the Kawhi like, first of all, I never thought he'd be in this position where it just seemed like he was going to be hurt. Not hurt, just back and forth the rest of his career. But then being at this level, almost being a 50, 40, 90 guy for two thirds of the season, I think it's amazing stuff. He single handedly saved their season.

[B]

He is an absolute machine. He is as machine like on the nights he's playing well as any player. I've ever seen. It's so automatic. There's like zero margin for error on his jump shot because he gets no higher than 8 inches above the rim. And it goes straight and it hits the, hits the inside back rim and goes straight down like he's one of those guys that like. And I used to try to do this when I would like give like a shooting talk or something where like I always make a joke like I trained the ball to come back to me. You're shooting it perfectly. That's what it does. It goes in, hits the rim and with that English comes right back to react. But he does it in games with two dudes trying to stop him and it's like so automatic when he gets on these roles. And I love the fact that Anthony Edwards said what he said about him after the game because you know, he's an, he's an older player. It's been a while since like Kawhi like you know, won that championship in Toronto. Anthony Edwards is still so young, trying to figure his way. He gave him so much respect after the game and said, man, if this dude did not get hurt, had the injuries he's had, you're talking about one of the all time great players in the history of this league. And he was talking about from his experience playing against the guy at this advanced stage after all the injuries, that's how much respect Anthony Edwards has for like what a load this guy is to guard, how hard he is, to stop, his strength, his balance. It's just, it's too much. The way he dominates in a 15-18ft man all night long, like that's his wheelhouse. And then he added the three point shot later in his career. But imagine, Bill, imagine what this guy's career would look like if he didn't lose basically. What is it about five full seasons to injuries, right?

[A]

Zach and I did a deep dive

[B]

and he's only 34.

[A]

Yeah, Zach and I did a deep dive on him a couple weeks ago on my Sunday pod. And there's also the weird part where the first four years of his career have no parallel to what happened next, where he's basically like 12 points a game score. He's like a three and D guy. And then all of a sudden now it's 20, 26 and he's got like as, as much of a bag as any forward in the league, right? He's scoring all these different ways. If you're just talking about pure talent and LeBron is. If you're just talking pure talent, forwards this century. LeBron's first. It's probably him versus KD for that second forward spot, right? Pure talent wise, if it's like I could have the peak version of either of these guys for one season, who would you want? It's a pretty good argument.

[B]

Oh, yeah, no, you might want to.

[A]

You might kind of bet, might be 55, 45 toward Kawhi that I would lean.

[B]

You know, Kawhi would get a lot of. And I'm glad you kind of injected him into that conversation with those guys, because most people would think that's beyond the realm, but it's not. Man, Kawhi Leonard is that good. He deserves to be in conversations like that. He's doing it again this year, and that team has been really interesting. And look, they went through the Harden thing. Nora Powell left, and Harden comes in and Harden's gone. And they go out and they get Garland. It's a really nice pickup. And then Matheran's been great for them. Matheran has given them kind of exactly what Matheran was at his best for Indiana and. But they weren't all that frequent those nights. So if they want to get into a best of seven, and, man, wouldn't that be interesting. If you get Kawhi Leonard and these Clippers in a best of seven as a six seed or something,

[A]

whatever like that. With Kweiler the seventh seed, who would they be playing as the two seed? San Antonio. The team that boos him, the fans that boo him every time he gets the ball. Now, eight years later, they boo him every time he gets the ball. I think that series would be awesome. First of all, they were 6 and 21. It's nuts that they're even in the conversation. This is even more nuts because I have the Clippers tickets, I have some Clipper fans in my life, and everybody's like, man, if we had Niederhauser, we'd be able to potentially pull a 27 upset. This kid Niederhauser, out of nowhere, became important. They're one big short. They're like 15 minutes of a big guy. They basically, they're relying on Brook Lopez, who's old way too much, and they can go small ball. John Collins is out now. He's coming back. But Matheran gave them something that. A phrase that you could not say on your ESPN broadcast, but I can say here on a podcast. He gave them some fuck you. He's got. He's got some fuck you energy that combined. Chris Dunn has that, too. John Collins, weirdly, has that this team is. And then Kawhi is like, nobody even messes with him. He's like Clint Eastwood. He's over here. This team's got it. There's a feistiness to them now that I don't think they had before. And in a playoff series where you just have to go four and three, I don't know, I don't really necessarily want to want to see Kawhi now. He could get hurt tomorrow, who knows.

[B]

No, man, that's. Yeah, no. And ultimately Oklahoma City, San Antonio, and they can only get as high as 7, so they could be a 7 or 8 because they're not going to be able to get into the six. So you're talking about playing your Oklahoma City or San Antonio in the first round. I'm not thinking the Clippers are going to beat either of those teams, but man, would that be compelling and interesting to watch Kawhi Leonard go up against those two teams if he's feeling healthy and right because even last year against Denver, like he put up numbers in that series, you know, and his efficiency has always been there. So just to watch him take on that challenge with a Clippers team that, you know, basically throw out the first third of the season and look at their record the rest of the way, that would be a really interesting first round series for either of those teams.

[A]

I want them to win the title so we can find out if Chris Paul got a ring and a playoff share or not. I think that would be a fun sub putt. This episode is brought to you by Onnit. Need to perform at your best. Alpha Brain helps you focus, react faster and think clearly under pressure with science backed ingredients like L Theanine. It's trusted by professionals and it's the number one multi benefit brain support supplement. Based off US unit sales data from Circana Brain VMS capsule data October 2025. Visit onnit.com O N N I T and shop Alpha Brain to unlock your next level. This episode is brought to you by Venmo. Supporting your team never gets old, but here's something new. You can now pay for your game day wings and rep your team at the same time. How? By getting your college colors on your card. Score more with the college branded Venmo debit card. Get up to 5% cash back with Venmo Stash. Sign [e-mail] college card the Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp Bank NA Select Schools available Venmo Stash Bundle terms and exclusions apply at Venmo me terms max, $100 cash back per month. Hey, all NBA got a month left now.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Yage sga, Cade and Wembier are going to be all NBA guys. I think those are the, those are four. That fifth spot, I got Kawhi, I got Anthony Edwards, I got Jalen Brown, I have Luka who's really, come on. I think the last like maybe 10 days or so, maybe even some Donovan Mitchell, who's your, who would be your fifth guy? If you're filling out a ballot right now, I'm giving you Jokic, sga, Cade Wemby. And by the way, you can bump Cade if you want, take two from that next group. Who would you have?

[B]

No, I wouldn't bump Cade. Cade's in. Cade's kid.

[A]

To me, Cade's a lock in for me as well.

[B]

He's a lock. So that, that last spot. Here's, here's what's interesting. If you asked me this question, you know, three weeks ago with still a lot of uncertainty around Tatum's return, I would have thought Jaylen Brown had a great chance and he may still. But as Tatum continues to get his legs and his minutes and like has more of an impact on the game and you know, he's not as like kind of deferential offensively as he's been as you would expect him to be to this point. You're. It's just a natural cannibalism of some of these big nights that Jalen Brown has had to carry that team. And it's weird because it's like right here at the end of the year, it's actually going to hurt him a little bit. He's absolutely had a season worthy of first team all NBA. There is no question about it. And if Tatum didn't come back, I think there's a really good chance he gets that last spot. But now I think there's going to be especially like you imagine if they, you know, they win some games now and like Tatum does like kind of find it and he's got some 25, 30 point games. It feels like it's going to hurt Jalen Brown even though it probably shouldn't because they wouldn't be in position to do what we said at the beginning of this broadcast, which is, hey man, this team might be able to get to the finals if Jalen Brown didn't position them to be there with his play by the time Tatum come back. Came back. But it is going to hurt him, I think. So that's why I Think a guy like Luca, if the Lakers can continue to play better and they like, they put together a 7, 8 game winning streak or something like that, with his numbers and leading the league of scoring all that, like, Luca's got a really good chance. But I think Jaylen Brown, because he plays both ends at a higher level defensively than Luka and what he did with that roster to get them really into the second seed, really with his offense carrying him every night, he's got such a claim to it, man. But I think the Tatum thing might hurt him here down the stretch.

[A]

Yeah, I had Jalen for that last spot for now and I feel like he's going to get passed for all the reasons you said. But I also, it's weird because he, because we don't have anything to, we have to find things to talk about. For six months during this season, there was some advanced metrics of like, well, when he's out of the lineup, what about this? And I'm just telling you, like, first of all, they designed that bench unit to come in and be like these crazy defensive pit bulls, right? And they're going against teams benches. And that's one of the reasons the bench stats were so good. That's why Hugo has like one of the best on off ratings in the history of the league. But with Jalen, I just thought the red, the, the durability and the consistency of like put it all on my shoulders. I'm showing up night after night. I don't think we value that. I keep saying this on my pods. I don't think we value that enough. When we, when we look at this stuff, just, you know, knowing somebody is going to show up night after night when you don't really have a lot of guys, I don't think you can put a price on that.

[B]

I completely agree, man. Toughness and like just competitive professionalism are. Is a skill.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And not too often we call those kind of things intangibles. It's a skill, man. And Jaylen Brown has it. And you know, I was having this conversation with somebody a couple of days ago. We're like the Tatum thing, like you think any part of Jalen Brown, like a little bit just, you know, from, from a player has had this kind of a year, just a little bit, you know, not bothered. He wants to win and Tatum gives a better chance to do. But at the same time it's like, man, that was really fun. Like to show you what I came up and I said, you know what? Actually I don't Think so. Because here's. Here's the bottom line. He rang the bell when he was given the opportunity. He basically showed everybody what his true ceiling is as like the top guy, the alpha, the top of the food chain guy on a team. He showed you what he's capable doing. He. He dialed his scoring average up to basically 30 points a game with the same level defense. Career highs across the board in a lot of different categories. You know, guys that were role players primarily elevated to higher roles to try to give him supplemental offense, they all did it. But if he doesn't play the way he did, they're not anywhere near the second seed. So I think some part. My point being some part of him probably feels incredible validation. I got the opportunity, look what I am. And so now, yeah, he's going to have to give up some of that when Tatum starts to really find his game. Ultimately, it might lead to them playing in the finals and winning a championship again, but so he'll take that because I think now he proved to people, like, if he averaged 23 a game and shot 43% and they had eight less wins, like, people would view him like, yeah, he's a really nice number two. What he wanted to prove to people was, no, man, this is what I can look like as a number one. And that's why I think mentally there's gotta be a security about Tatum coming back because of what he was able to do while he was out and the validation that he was able to muster.

[A]

I'm glad you put it that way. I obviously agree. He proved whatever. The one thing that he probably felt like he had to prove to everybody over the course of his career was I actually did sacrifice the last few years and I didn't get enough credit for it. Right. I just showed you what I could do if I'm the number one guy. I think what really struck me, like these last six, seven days is how happy everybody, including Jalen, was for Tatum, because this wasn't one of the, you know, and obviously that's goes without saying to some degree, but he was with the team all the time. Like sometimes when you'd have like Kawhi and some of these other guys when they're rehabbing, they're just gone, right? They're like, nobody even sees them and they're not really around or they want to rehab on their own, then they'll pop in and out. Tatum went on every road trip. He was like on the bench, like rooting for everybody and just was stayed part of the team. And they knew how much time he had put in to get back to where he got back. And I think Jalen, it probably brought those guys closer would be my guess. Like, Jalen held the four for him. Now they're back. You did that Cleveland game on Sunday, watching them kind of still trying to figure out how to integrate Tatum back in. And Jalen had that incredible third quarter when it was like, okay, I'm going to take over for these five minutes here. And he just. He's just going to be better at that now because he has the reps. So I think ultimately it was great for both of them.

[B]

And look, there's a great. I mean, there's a great, great cast to choose from for first team all league. And all the guys you listed, man, like, they can make a claim. I think the guy that's got the greatest argument of that group is Jalen Brown. Based on. Based on what they were missing. And it wasn't just Tatum. It's like they reinvented their team to a certain extent with how they were right and just not. Not just, like, keep us, you know, floating at.500 and hope that Tatum can help, you know, us as a six seed run through the Eastern Conference, man, they position themselves to play two home rounds in the postseason as Tatum starts around into form. And that's because of what Jaylen Brown was able to do offensively. So I have so much respect for the guy anyway, but, like, I just have a new, completely newfound respect for, like, what this guy ultimately represents every night. Because I've always loved his competitiveness, how hard he defends, challenge. He takes it seriously every night. They don't shy away from putting him on top guys, they don't worry about keeping out of foul trouble, any of that stuff. He takes on the challenge. And now question was, can he dial it up to, like, 30? Because that's a totally different level of responsibility every night in this league. And he did it well.

[A]

It's a little easier for him now, too, because the Tatum, the Tatum gravity, that composed gravity is the new word of the year this year. But it's just a little different when you have Tatum on that side able to punish smaller guys. I felt bad for Jalen on Tuesday night because, you know, I watched the entire Celtics season. Jalen had it going in that spurs game and got kicked out, really, you know, as usual, wasn't getting calls, got shoved out of bounds, got mad, got thrown out by the ref who didn't even make the call. And the shame of it was like, you talk about missed opportunities with the league this year that had a chance to be one of the best games of the season. Right. The Celtics are like, they're like, they're resting Tatum, the OKC game, they're ready to throw haymakers at the Spurs. Wemby, their strategy was let Wimby shoot threes, which he made over and over again. But it was really competitive, feisty. You had the Harper brothers both in there. And Jalen was great. And he. I think he had seven assists when he got kicked out. But I felt like that was going to be a real statement game for him. And. And the rug got pulled out, unfortunately.

[B]

So I felt bad for him too. And I talked about it a lot yesterday. You know, how that all played out. And it was just. It's so unfortunate because of what that game represented. I mean, you potentially, I mean, you know, I, I think if I had to lay money on it today, I would say Oklahoma City gets to the finals. But we just talked about San Antonio's chances. Yeah, they're right there. So potentially this. That's an NBA Finals preview. Potentially. And, and you got Tatum back for the game. Spurs have been incredible. Like, let's go, man. This is. And it was a close game. It's like you got everything you could ask for. You're winding down toward halftime. And then that happens and it just changed the entire second half of the game. And it's complex. It's just. Yeah. Just from a. Just a pure viewership standpoint and like fans wanting to watch two great teams that you have so much respect for their way they play too. And like everybody's there too. Like we got every. All the major components are playing. Man, this is going to be great. And it was living up to it to that point in the game and then boom, that happened. So I felt bad for him too.

[A]

Maybe we'll get again. We don't need to talk about San Antonio ceiling because people see what it is now. I asked Zach on we're trying to figure out on Sunday who Harper, who I. I just infatuated by. But this weird game he has where how he uses his body and the post ups and the slithery stuff on the baseline. I was like, what guard was like this. And the only guy I could really think of was Jason. Kidding. How he would do some weird back to the basket and mismatch stuff and was physical and you know, he's. Harper five years from now is gonna be 15 pounds heavier. He has this footwork slither stuff already. But he's also gonna be bigger and more physical. And I just, I don't remember a guard quite like him. Plus he's left handed on top of everything else. Do you remember anybody that reminded you of him?

[B]

No. I like the comparison of Kid. With the only exception being this. Cause I like that when you talk about like the physicality of their game, the strength of their game, like the way that they could like manipulate, read, leverage, like when they get a guy in their back, they can read leverage and know which way to spin and they never make mistakes. Every time the guy leans one way, they're going the other direction. The only difference is like Kid was doing a lot of that two steps ahead mentally knowing he was going to make a play for somebody on the tail end of it. Whereas Harper wants to score.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like Harper is getting you in that spot, he's going to score. I am so impressed with him by the way. Another guy. And they remind me of each other in a lot of ways as AJ Mitchell because they're both kind of similarly built, they're left handed, they're very hungry as scorers and OKC just got him back. And he was incredible in that game on Sunday against Denver. I mean he acted like he hadn't been out at all. He'd been out forever. Comes back in, immediately picks up where he left off. Two really to me, top shelf lead guards don't know when they're going to get like their own team where it's 35 minutes a night and I got the ball because obviously that's going to be tough on okc. When you got SGA and Jalen Williams and then you look at the young guards with Castle and Darren Fox and San Antonio. So I don't know when, if it's going to be with the organizations they're with now, but at some point both of those guys are going to be guys that are playing 33, 44 minutes a night on really good teams and they're the starting point guard and they're doing some serious work in that role. Whenever that's going to happen. That's how much respect I have for both of them.

[A]

Yeah, Harper's inevitable. AJ Mitchell sounds like GM Tim Legler taking over. Like the Pelicans or somebody would be

[B]

like, we're going after Mitchell, we're getting them. Yes, I'm telling you right now, I'm telling you, I think he's got it in him now. Look, I don't know whether, you know, his, his ascension here happened a little bit later. He's older. A little bit older. So it's a little bit of a different path for him. Right. But it doesn't matter. He's still young and it's happening now. And he opened up everybody's eyes in that organization with what happened this year. And everybody around the league, really. So. And everybody I've talked to kind of has the same opinion on him. Yeah, I like this dude can flat out go. And he's not phased by big moments. And so that's why. Yeah, I just can't wait to see. But you're right. No, there's no doubt about Harper at all. Like how he's going to be a star. I don't know if Mitchell will be a star, but I think he can be a lead guard on a good team in this league and put up good numbers.

[A]

Harper is an all NBA guy at some point and it's like he will make an all NBA team. Probably multiple. Did you.

[B]

By the way, man, I think Castle has a chance to do that. If he ever really solves the shooting thing, he's better. But you know, I'm talking about at some point that means can you shoot a three off the dribble a few times a night because that's what guards on that level do. And shoot it at a clip that at least gets north of 36%, 38%. Like get up in that range with. With his defense and the way he physically attacks the rim. I think Castle is another one of those guys. Like, there's no telling how good this guy could be in two or three years.

[A]

Well, you're betting on a psycho competitor to fill in holes in his game over the next three years, which he's going to do. Right. So stuff he can't do yet by the time he's 26. So he'll be able to do it. The league's in really good shape with some. With these young guys. They have two drafts. I know. I know you're too busy with the NBA to follow college, but there's some crazy guy not even beyond the top four. There's some crazy scores in this draft and all kinds of things coming. So it's pretty fun. Last question. Did the SGA Jokic game and SGA basically turning into Kobe in the Kobe Michael basically just summoning the spirit of those guys down the stretch and hitting these fu threes. Did that change your yokage is the best player in the league at all.

[B]

Yeah, listen. Yes. I think that, you know, Jokic to me was clearly that label. There's no doubt. Now it's this. It's, you know, you can lean towards Shay. I have no problem with it. It's certainly a much better debate. I don't have any problem with people that want to say Shay Gilgis Alexander is the best player in the league. That the stuff he's doing with those type of shots at the end of games, like how difficult those shots are. And he does it going both directions, by the way. Like, that's. Most guys have their favorite direction they have to get to if they know they're going to take a deep step back shot. He can go either direction equally. He's a very good defender. It's impossible to keep this guy out of the lane. He's about as automatic as it comes in the mid range, 55%. Like, that's when you get into those efficiency levels that are just like ridiculous for a guard that takes a lot of contested shots. No, man, he's. Listen, I got no problem. Anybody wants to say Shay Gilchrist, Alexander's best player in the NBA, I'm not going to fight you hard on that. I think it's an absolute legitimate debate and it's 100% subjective. Just come with a good argument. Come with your criteria. State your case. You're not going to be wrong if that's your opinion.

[A]

He's definitely moved into a 1A, 1B situation for me. And I think the question is, which position do you value more? Like, it hits that, like most of the time, the last 15 years, perimeter guys have been the ones that have been driving titles, right? Where you have the. Every once in a while you have the Giannis title or the Jokic title, but for the most part, it's guys that have the ball, guys who are 25, 30ft from the basket who are then trying to create something. And that's been the best asset to have. That was why in the Luka draft, I was going nuts because I was like, I can't. How does somebody take Ayton over Luka when we have already established this decade that the thing you would want the most is an elite perimeter guy? This is the number one thing you need. But Jokic is so good, it's almost like he's a perimeter guy even as a center.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

It's a great argument to have. I thought that game, that game was like out of like the late 80s with some of the games we would watch with MJ versus Bird, MJ versus Magic, Isaiah versus Matt, like, that's what it reminded me of. Just like two great guys at the peak of their powers just trying to beat each other. And I don't know. I don't know where that goes in the playoffs. If Denver's healthy, it's gonna be amazing.

[B]

That's. That's as good as this league has to offer. What you watched in that game, let me just. You know how. How tight it was, the level of shot making, the talent, the way the two teams play and how much you respect the way that they play. That's just fun. And then on top of those guys delivering when they had to deliver, right?

[A]

Big shots, big, hard shots. SGA's last shot kind of pushed off, but I didn't mind it. But that step back from going to his right, which is a harder shot for already. Last, Last. Last question. Are you happy with the commander's off season?

[B]

So I feel pretty good about what we've done. But at the same time, this renewed cynicism kicked in that I had shed. I had shed all of the cynicism because of how much faith I had in Adam Peters coming in and changing the head coach, the coordinators. Obviously, you know, you get your franchise quarterback. I had shed it. Like, you know what? All of that stuff that I've been carrying around for 25 years, like, it's gone. It's kind of crept back into my psyche just because of how bad it was last year. And they're going to chalk it up mostly to injuries. It was a lot more than that. A lot more than that. I was scarred by what I watched last year. How do you go to NFC championship game and then win five games and lose eight in a row? And a lot of those weren't competitive like that. That shouldn't be the drop off. No matter how many guys get hurt, you should have that drop off. You should at least be in the mix in the fight. Eight. Eight. But hey, man, we fight every night because we're a winning organization now. We reverted. So I'm going to sell you. I like, I like the names. I, you know, I like what on paper it looks like it's adding. I'm cynical that it's actually going to work out that way. Just where I'm at right now.

[A]

Have you studied the NFL draft? Because you have the seventh pick.

[B]

I had. No, I haven't gotten that far yet because of the NBA season. But I will be. I will have that buttoned up because

[A]

there's a chance, like McShay for us, thinks Love is the best player in the draft. The running back there's a chance he could go to seven.

[B]

They spent all the money they just spent went into their defense.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that's been the and it should be. That was, it was just laughable how bad their defense was last year. That's where the money's been spent. So now the talk is they're going to turn the first round of the draft into an offensive pick and that would be the position. We only have one running back right now, really. You know, Kraski merits a really good player, but that's like the only running back we have. Other guys have signed with other teams. Echler is probably done. So like we don't have any other running backs. So I think that probably is the position that they're going to target and that is the name that looks like it's going to be there when they make that pick.

[A]

Would be pretty exciting. Get a healthy Daniels, get love some skill guys. All right, Lex, I'll see you in a couple weeks. Before so it's what? Yeah, we'll do one more right before the playoffs and then you'll be on Zach spot once. But I've enjoyed hearing you on the game. Say hi to say hi to the Rev Mike Breen. Say hi to Ruko. Say hi to rj. Thanks for coming on. Always good to see you.

[B]

Anytime, Bill. Talk to you a couple weeks.

[A]

All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Legs. Thanks to Cahao and Eduardo. As always. Don't forget I am going to be on live on Netflix 4:00-clock PT right after March Madness. So stay tuned for that. Have a great weekend. I will see you on Sunday. 21 and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino are 18 plus. I'm present in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Opt in required rewards are non withdrawable. Restrictions apply including bonus and token expiration leg requirements and max wager amount. See [e-mail], get in problem call 1-800- Gamble or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call 888-797-777 or visit ccpg.org Chattinconenetic or or mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-550 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 877-8-HOPE NY or text hopeny in New York. For Louisiana call 877-770-7867. Monster Energy everybody knows White Monster Zero Ultra.

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