← The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Bill Simmons Podcast
The Feel-Good Knicks, Award Movies, Week 18 Picks, and a Boston Sports Report With Sean Fennessey, Joe House, and Bill’s Dad
02:23:12
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- [00:00]
Bill Simmons
Hey, Happy New Year. I got a good pod for you. We're talking basketball and football and movies and New York sports and Boston sports. It's a New Year's buffet. What's Next? This episode is brought to you by Workday. Get the whole band together with Workday and pair finance and HR in one platform for an epic performance. With Workday AI at the core, you'll make confident decisions faster than ever, and you'll drive flawless business and finance operations with an agile platform that constantly evolves to future proof your organization. Be a Finance and HR Rockstar with Workday. Visit workday.com to learn more. This episode is brought to you by State Farm State Farm helps you score an affordable price when you choose to bundle home and auto insurance with the personal price plan. Bundling home and auto, that's a pro move. Just another way you can save on your insurance needs. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer, availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network. I put up a new rewatchables on Monday night we did Friday Night Lights the Movie, me and Mallory Rubin. We did it as a video podcast on Spotify, but you can listen to it anywhere. You can also watch it on YouTube on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel. You can watch all the clips and videos from this podcast on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. You can watch Sal and I do our Sunday podcast live right after Vikings Lions on Sunday night on that YouTube channel. Don't forget about FanDuel's sportsbook as well. We're doing 30 on 30 every Friday trying to figure out who the 30 point scorers are going to be. They put odds on all of it. I tweet out my favorite picks on Friday, so stay tuned for that as well. Coming up on this podcast, I'm going to talk to Sean Fennessy about the end of the Rodgers era, the rise of the Knicks, and whether I should see a certain Oscar contender before the Oscars. So there's that. I have Joe House coming on. We're going to talk about NBA futures heading into 2025. Stuff that jumped out to us with title odds and win totals. Mvp. All kinds of stuff. And then Million dollar picks week 18. We've been smoking hot. Can we keep it going? We'll find out. Last but not Least my dad talking about the state of Boston sports. He's kind of a wreck these days. So we're just going to give him a platform and he can do his thing. So that is all next. First, our friends from Pearl jab. All right, Joe House is here. We're taping this late morning Pacific time. So there's some sports that are going to happen after we put this up. There's college football. That will happen. There's a lot of basketball. There's some good basketball games as well. We're going to do billion dollar picks. We've been doing really well. Can't wait to talk about the games. How weird this slate is. But I sent you a bunch of NBA stuff because this is a weird inflection point of the season right now with awards, with odds, with conference stuff. And I was going through it this morning and I was really surprised by some of the odds for things. The first thing was the title odds where Boston and OKC are right where you would think Boston's +200, OKCs +250. The fact that the Knicks had better title odds than Cleveland, I was kind of shocked by. The Knicks are 10 to 1, Cleveland's 111 and then after that it's Denver 15 1, Dallas 17 1. That's they have when these futures there's legacy stuff from the start of the season. They can't like jack them around too much and then we'll go through some of the other ones later. But I was really surprised Cleveland isn't being treated more favorably by the odds community. What, what else do people need to see from this team? Because right now they're 29 and 4. They're over under on fandom for wins for the season is 611 1/2. I don't know. They're probably going to have home court advantage. Round one, round two, round three. What don't people trust? What is your opinion on this?
- [04:24]
Joe House
Their performance in the playoffs. I mean this is exactly why the Knicks are ahead of them. We watch these two teams slightly different composition but Cleveland, you know, largely the same team as last year perform in the in the most recent playoffs. And Cleveland didn't knock anybody's socks off. And the Knicks were unbelievable. They were, you know, an injury issue away from being in the Eastern Conference finals. It felt like the Knicks slightly different Knicks team.
- [04:56]
Bill Simmons
I would argue slightly different Cavs team because they've got a totally different version of Garland this year now that he's healthy. Mobley went up a level new coach who I think has Made a real difference for them.
- [05:09]
Joe House
That's the key.
- [05:09]
Bill Simmons
And over and over again, they just answer these tests. I don't know if you saw any of the warriors game the other night, but they just, you know, they're just slaughtering teams. They're not. It's very similar to what was happening with the Celtics last year. And I, you know, they're plus 11. I think they're plus like 11. 3 rating. They're killing teams. They're up by 20 in a lot of these games. And it was like last year where people didn't trust it with the Celtics for a while, and then eventually they trusted it. I, maybe I trusted too much with them, but I, I'm. I really believe. I think they have as good of a chance as anybody, and I don't understand the odds.
- [05:43]
Joe House
Well, part of the thing with Cleveland, I think they're the only team in the NBA that is undefeated against teams that are.500 or worse, which is exactly what you want, Right? That's a hallmark benchmark kind of level of achievement when you play regular season. Yeah, they're worse than you in the regular season. You're supposed to beat their ass. And that's how you build up a great regular season record, and that's how you put yourself in a driver's seat in terms of a, you know, home court advantage throughout the playoffs. I just think it's, it's fair where these odds are, because when do we get to see some of the true sort of leverage moments this team put under stress and duress? Now, the thing that could, if you wanted to talk yourself into the value proposition, Kenny Atkinson has all the chops. He has the, the, the pedigree with the, the warriors being, you know, along for that ride. Yeah, he knows exactly how a good organization he, he took, you know, the Nets and was really competitive with the Nets before he. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, that, that team overachieved that Nets team. And so, you know, he was, he. We, in our analysis of how this cavalier season might go when we were together in October, thought that he, more than any other element to that team, could be a real elevating force. And that's exactly what's happened.
- [07:16]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, and we, and we, we trusted the Garland comeback year, we trusted the stability with Mitchell, and the big X factor was what's Mobley got for us this year?
- [07:26]
Joe House
Right.
- [07:26]
Bill Simmons
Mobley went up a level and he's hitting threes better. And I think he should be in the all star team, even if you look at their last 20 games. Their net rating's 11.9 heading into Thursday night in the weekend. And the Cleveland, OKC, Boston, the Knicks and the Grizzlies are all nine and above in net rating the last 20 games, and Memphis is the one. I could see more confusion about Memphis, whether what's real, what's not real with them, just because it doesn't, you know, Morant, I want to see if can. Can you just play for a solid month and a half and just be out there every day? Um, they've had some. Some. Some good schedule luck so far. We'll see if that exists. But right now, they're building such a big nest egg. Like, they're 23 and 11 right now. Yeah, they're over. Under is 51 and a half on FanDuel, which 51 and a half. That means you have to go 52 and 30. So to me, that's a little bit of a lack of a trust, I think, from the betting community, at least with them. There's some weird ones, though, like The Knicks being 10 to 1 makes sense to me. That seems like the right range for them. Right. Denver is 15 to 1, I think, just because of the legacy of what people bet. Same for Dallas, 17 1. But if you go a little further and you dig in like, Memphis is 27 1, Houston's 44 1. Memphis and Houston are going to be. Probably be top four seeds. So when you just look at it like that, you're like, how do those people have way worse odds than Denver, A team that just seems like a mess night tonight is. Even though Jokic is as great as he's been. What do you think of the Clippers at 75 to 1 to win the title? Nah, just a complete. Didn't even make you stop for a second. No, I'm not saying they're going to win the title. It just seemed like those odds seem really high to me.
- [09:19]
Joe House
The one that caught my attention, and I mean, all due respect to the Clippers, great job by them. And I know this is going to run contrary to some action that we got down last week. Minnesota at 30 to 1, that we're finally at a number for them where it's like, wait a minute. I mean, that team was in the Western Conference finals last year.
- [09:40]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [09:41]
Joe House
And they have a super duper star on their team. This first, you know, stretch of games. The first third of the season for them, you know, 17 and 15 through 32 games not up to the level that we might have anticipated in, to say the least. Well, we Thought there would be some depth that was added. What the Karl Anthony Towns piece we were saying, well, maybe it won't really affect the defense that much. And on that, what they get in terms of offensive versatility, yeah, maybe they're.
- [10:16]
Bill Simmons
Shooting won't go down, but yeah, it did affect them all over the place.
- [10:21]
Joe House
In every which way. Having said all of that, I mean, 30 to 1 there.
- [10:26]
Sean Fennessy
There's.
- [10:27]
Joe House
They still have Anthony Edwards. They still have the.
- [10:31]
Bill Simmons
The only way that makes sense to me is if you're assuming that there's a Randall trade out there for them, that they can turn him into something else. Because the thing that's changed the last couple of weeks is DeFincenzo finally got going and that's added all the stuff we thought he was going to add before that trade. And the athletic John Krasinski wrote a really good piece about it. Just like, you know, we always forget the human element sometimes with these NBA trades. And Dante was just fucking bummed out the first month, that half of the season. Like he wanted to be on the Knicks. He had. He had had a great run with him. It was the best professional run of his career. Now he's on this weird Minnesota team and he just didn't play well and he didn't look like he was happy. Reinvested himself. And now he's added a little something. I'll be interested to see with Dillingham what they get out of him too, if he. If he's just, you know, him and Reed shepherd are kind of the 2x factors of these rookies on good teams that don't really play right.
- [11:27]
Joe House
Good call.
- [11:27]
Bill Simmons
And Reed shepherd hasn't been good either. I think Dillingham has been good in spots, but I'm just wondering what happens with those guys down the stretch. So the Rockets are another one at 44 to 1. That just like. If you're just factoring in a trade and you can. Can they turn Van Vliet or Jalen Green into a much better version of those guys, then maybe those odds go up. But I don't sense the appetite from them this year making a major move. So we'll see. And then Orlando at 43 to 1 is the only other one. Just because they'll have their guys back at some point. The infrastructure they have with the defense and the coaching and the. The reps that they've been getting for dudes like De Silva.
- [12:12]
Joe House
Yeah.
- [12:13]
Bill Simmons
Anthony Black and people like that. So, you know, I. To me, the best odds are Cleveland 11 to 1.
- [12:21]
Joe House
I'll go along with that, I don't have any argument with that.
- [12:23]
Bill Simmons
I think they're favored in the first two rounds. It's probably going to be, I don't know, whoever it is in round three and it might not be my team, but game seven will be in Cleveland. That's not nothing. So a couple over unders really quick. Celtics 59 and a half just seems way too high. They're 24 and nine. That 59 and a half basically is 23 losses. That's 14 more the rest of the way. They can't seem to get anybody healthy. I also don't really think they care about the one seed. Golden State is still 45 and a half and they're 16 and 16 heading into tonight. What. What world are they winning? 46 games. Unless there's a major trade coming that I can't anticipate, it's that there is.
- [13:09]
Joe House
Some possibility, I guess that the market thinks that there's a trade for them yet to come.
- [13:16]
Bill Simmons
It's going to be really hard.
- [13:17]
Joe House
It is for me.
- [13:19]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, that's a hard under for me. Go ahead. Well, just Clippers 46 and a half. That would make me blink just because of the injury potential. The Miles are putting on hard and I don't know what they're getting from Kawhi when he comes back. But the Golden State one, I don't see that. We're already in on Indy 43 and a half. We did the over. Even though they're 16 18, they're minus 250 to make the point playoffs. Minnesota, you mentioned they're minus 340 to make the playoffs right now even though they're 17 and 15. So I think people are agreeing with the way you saw big picture what's happening with them. But they're over. Under is 47 and a half now, which seems too high to me.
- [13:59]
Joe House
It's high. That's high. That's a tough stretch.
- [14:02]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. That means they'd have to go 31 and like 19 rest of the way. Something like that. 31 and 18. I don't see it. OKC, 62 and a half is the over under now they're 27 and 5. I think they get it. I would still. I would still be bullish on that, wouldn't you?
- [14:21]
Joe House
Sure, it's fine.
- [14:22]
Bill Simmons
I feel like it's shocking every time they lose. They so deep.
- [14:25]
Joe House
We're already like fully subscribed, fully allocated on every okc. But if you wanted to just see for fun, you know, another little bit to get down Will they get to 63 wins? Feels totally plausible. 63 and 19. Sure.
- [14:42]
Bill Simmons
It feels mid-60s to me unless there's another injury. Plus they haven't even gotten chip back. So here are the two hardest for me. Phoenix was 45 and a half right now they're minus 134 to make the playoffs. So people are putting a lot of faith into something turning around here. They're 15 and 17. I just like even their last 20 games they're 6 and 14. They're minus 3.1 net rating. We really need this. This would be the first boost season boost that we've lost. We had our boost this year was Cleveland and Phoenix to win 45 plus, OKC to win 55 plus. And that's what we boosted on Fando. We're going nuts for it. I don't know if Phoenix gets the 45 wins. Do you, do you see it? What's missing with them other than they have the worst centers in the league?
- [15:34]
Joe House
Yeah, I, I, we really I think believed that the coaching change and what they be able to do from the perimeter, especially like, you know, that they would change what they had. What the, their single biggest problem was a math problem which was they, they didn't get up enough threes and they didn't make enough threes. And we say okay, Bud is going to come and change that and, and.
- [15:59]
Bill Simmons
They'Re going to be this high scoring, like super fun, entertaining team that just is winning 120 to 115.
- [16:06]
Joe House
And they're not that.
- [16:08]
Bill Simmons
No.
- [16:08]
Joe House
And they, and the problem is, you know, it's kind of the same problem as last year when they were a great underplay. Durant can't really play night to night and it really doesn't make sense for him to play night to night. And they just rotate two out of the three guys.
- [16:24]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [16:25]
Joe House
And you know, Beal doesn't move the needle. He doesn't help them win basketball games.
- [16:30]
Bill Simmons
He's actually been putting up stats lately.
- [16:32]
Joe House
And it's perfectly fine. Right, Exactly. They're, they're three and seven over the last 10 and he's, he's in all of those games.
- [16:40]
Bill Simmons
So you know, you know what, they're the big picture front office mistake they made was they tried to put together this big three model which had been so successful in the late 2000s and the 2010s because the league wasn't as deep. Now the league is deep and you need depth. You need the ability to weather an injury for 10 games. You need random guys stepping up night to night. And I just don't know if that big three model works great. Cool. You have three really good players. It doesn't matter. Like you're competing against other teams that have seven, eight, nine players that have real depth. That was something the Quippers figured out when they miraculously didn't offer Paul George that fourth year and landed all these other dudes. And now they have depth and they have the ability to, you know, whether Kawhi not playing for two and a half months because they have enough guys. So that's a hard under for me. And I think we're going to lose our bet. And I'm bummed because that was one of my favorite streaks that we had going. The other one. San Antonio is 39 and a half and that's up four wins from where we were the start of the season. They're 17 and 16. They're plus 360 to make the playoffs. And what we've seen from Wemby Goldspire and I talked about it a little on Tuesday. Like he's basically 29 and 12 every night now with four blocks, whatever it is and is turning into this crunch time dude. And they have trades to make potentially if they want. They want to add another guy. I kind of like the +3 60 for the playoffs for them as a flyer.
- [18:11]
Joe House
Oh, okay.
- [18:12]
Bill Simmons
I don't know if they're going to make the playoffs. I just like the odds.
- [18:15]
Joe House
Let's look at this real quick. So where they're sitting right now is they're in the nine hole.
- [18:21]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [18:22]
Joe House
And so let's see who they have to climb over.
- [18:25]
Bill Simmons
So the Lakers would have to drop. Which I think, I really think I could see that happening.
- [18:30]
Joe House
That's not crazy talk.
- [18:32]
Bill Simmons
And then that would be the team they'd have to jump, the Lakers basically. And then you'd have to assume Phoenix, Sacramento, Golden State. Those teams, they had to beat those teams as well.
- [18:45]
Joe House
I'm not saying it's going to happen plus 360 though.
- [18:48]
Bill Simmons
I just think a 4 to 1 chance of it happening basically seems reasonable to me considering they have a guy who is now like a top seven or eight guy.
- [18:56]
Joe House
I like this. Let's fire on it. Let's take a break in this podcast.
- [18:59]
Bill Simmons
So I can get this down a couple other ones. So MVP is basically a two horse race. SGA minus 105 Jokic plus 115. And I think if OKC is in the in the mid-60s for wins and SGA is doing the stuff he's been doing all year and Denver is like a seven seed. You know, 45 win. Team SJ is going to win. I think if it the way it's going now, I think SGA wins. And I was surprised the odds were even. Where'd you stand on that?
- [19:30]
Joe House
Well, I totally agree with the way that you're approaching this. And I also want to get down on this, a sizable number because I don't see Oklahoma City backing up. They're. You know, I'm knock on wood. I mean, it would. It would have to be some kind of crazy injury situation. I mean, wait. Wait till Chet comes back, right? Wait till they really have their. Their whole team. The reason that I think it's. It's especially compelling with SGA is because it addresses the thing that you and I talked about over the last couple of weeks, which is this transition moment for the league. The league really needs to start marketing the new class of stars that it has. And SGA should be a face of the league. He should be one of those guys. People need to see him. There needs to be some marketing around.
- [20:18]
Bill Simmons
His winning the off right now, which I thought was a good sign.
- [20:21]
Joe House
That's good. That's a good sign. Exactly right.
- [20:24]
Bill Simmons
So even odds. And I actually think he should be favored by more. And if I was going to suggest anyone else, look, I don't think he's going to win. But Wemby at 110 to 1 on.
- [20:36]
Joe House
No, not.
- [20:37]
Bill Simmons
No, listen. 110 to 1. He. By the way, he has the fifth best odds on FanDuel right now because it's SJN Jokic, Giannis is plus 9 50. Tatum's 22 to 1 and Wemby is 110 to 1.
- [20:49]
Joe House
You want to put $10 on it? Just.
- [20:51]
Bill Simmons
No, I'm not allowed to bet on the MVP. Just I'm pointing out value.
- [20:56]
Joe House
I'll put $10 on it just to like, you know, he's what they have to win 50 some games they have to win.
- [21:01]
Bill Simmons
I'm just trying to think of the last time the number 5 guy out of MVP Fair enough. Was over 100 to 1.
- [21:08]
Joe House
Fair enough.
- [21:09]
Bill Simmons
Because that's how dominant SGA and Jokic has been. But we know at the league like, you know, SGA, he could get a dumb injury for four weeks. Jokic, Denver could go slide backwards. Who knows? Tatum, 22 to 1 would be more fun if Boston was playing better. And we're going to find out with Boston on this road trip there on Rookie of the year is a catastrophe. Zach Eddy is our favorite at +120. Missy on New Orleans is second now and by the way plays crunch time for them, but it's a terrible team. Castle 7 to 1, Wells is 10 to 1 and Recessey is 25 to 1. Who would probably still be my pick. Cause he's starting to play more and more from them just for the odds. But I don't know who's going to win that I thought.
- [21:48]
Joe House
Did you see Tom Haberstrose breakdown just in the last like 24, 48 hours of Edie? It's very good. He does a. There's a bunch of clips and with, with, with the numbers. The plus minus numbers for Edie have been outstanding and there's a lot of good ev him how active he is and how he's very quietly really propelling that team. And if Memphis, you know, over this stretch of, you know, jobbing week to week, if they're sort of able to kind of tread water for a bit, I think in, in the ED's minutes are, are still a relevant part of it. I think that's a pretty good bet at this stage. The +120, it's kind of like my attention to be honest with you.
- [22:27]
Bill Simmons
Castle 7 to 1 I like too. He had a little bit of a wall the last couple of weeks, but I still like him long term. But yeah, Edie, everything we thought before the draft of if he goes here, he's this really interesting piece in a nine man rotation that you can. And he's been everything the, the glass half. Full side of the Zach Edie argument. Yes, he said all of it. Defensive player of the year. Wemby's -2 70. I for me it's like if he's below -500 on that, just grab it.
- [22:55]
Joe House
Go ahead and lay it.
- [22:56]
Bill Simmons
Most improved. The two guys that jumped out were Jalen Johnson 3 to 1 is the favorite. But Dyson Daniels a 10 to 1 who is probably the best perimeter defensive player we have. I was surprised 10 to 1 was as high as it was. And then coach of the year Kenny Atkinson's favorite minus 180. Mosley at +9:50 jumped out to me because that, the fact that that team is five, six games over.500 with all the injuries they've had is, is. Is crazy to me. So anyway, that is, that is my. What out of all those bets we just talked about, what was your favorite?
- [23:31]
Joe House
The Oklahoma City over 62 and a half.
- [23:34]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, I think I'm with you. It's like we already have more than enough on them. Anyway. That is our little NBA check in. All right, we're going to take a break and come back the Red Hot Million Dollar Picks this episode is brought to you by Nissan. When you're younger, you're more spontaneous. You say, screw it, I'm just going to drive cross country with my buddy and we'll stop at a bunch of place and take pictures. You get older, you would never do something like that. Keep your spontaneity my friends. Fuel your inner adventure with the first ever Nissan Rogue Rock Creek. From rocky trails to snowy roads, there are plenty of places to show up this SUV thanks to its intelligent all wheel drive. Its adventure ready design gives it a rugged flare that stands out off road. Adventure calls to the first ever Nissan Rogue Rock Creek. Visit NissanUSA.com to learn more. Intelligent all wheel drive cannot prevent collisions or provide enhanced traction in all conditions. Always monitor traffic and weather conditions. All right, Million dollar picks week 18 so I don't remember a week 18 or in the old days a week 17. The last week of the season that had this many question marks of who's rolling over and who's not. And I don't know why that's this year. But we even have playoff teams this year like the Rams where I'm like, so they're not going to win. Like the Seahawks are minus six and a half favorites and the Rams still have a chance to like lock down a three seed. We were asking Peter Schrager about it this week and he was texting us like just the Rams haven't had a buy since week six. They're banged up. McVeigh wanted to give Stafford and the receivers and Kyron Williams a week to heal for the playoffs and really likes his backups. So that choice that the Rams have of like if we lock down three, we're probably playing Washington in the three six in la. Or we drop down to four and we're playing the loser of Minnesota, Detroit. I don't know. I really would have wanted to play Washington. No offense to your, to your no, no offense C words.
- [25:44]
Joe House
Right.
- [25:45]
Bill Simmons
I just, I would have gone for it, but I get it. That team must be really banged up is my takeaway.
- [25:49]
Joe House
Well, and you, we've seen it. We keep watching where last three weeks I bet has been dragging. They just can't score. And you know, Shreg's included some of the stats for Kyra Williams. That dude needs a break. Give him a rest. It is a curious kind of decision out of the Rams, except for that's what they do Sean McVeigh has done this before, so, you know, the end. Whichever of the teams between Detroit and Minnesota that they get will indeed be banged up. I mean, just in terms of battle scars from the game this coming Sunday night that will decide the 1 seed in the NFC the loser of that year.
- [26:30]
Bill Simmons
It's like, it's awesome. If you win, you don't get to play for a week. If you lose, all of a sudden you're traveling somewhere in five or six days and playing around one playoff game. So. Yeah. Well, it ties into what we think will happen with that Detroit, Minnesota game, which we'll get to in a second. But I was looking at Rams plus six and a half against Seattle. Like maybe, maybe they hang. I don't really know what Seattle's motivation is because they're out.
- [26:58]
Joe House
Well, there is some Geno Smith motivation. He's one of those guys with a bunch of incentives. He needs 186 yards. There's a basket of achievements for him that'll get him an extra 3 million bucks this year. And I think the team will know that, understand it. Mike McDonald is motivated to beat McVay in his first season. They were, they. They lost in overtime in Seattle. So I think there's plenty of motivation for Seattle. I'm just not laying six and a half, you know, because unless the Rams, the way that the rosters work right now, they have to play some of their good guys on defense. They can't sit their entire defense. And the defense has been the thing that, that, that's kept them. The defense propelled them into the playoffs. The way that the defense played over this past month. They saved the game against the Cardinals on Saturday with an interception in the end zone. Right. I mean, you know, the defense is the key. So I think. And Seattle's offense has been fits and starts now I, they. There is a difference for Seattle. Their splits when they play on turf and domes is they've been very good. There's only been a handful of those games this year, but they've scored prolifically. So that would be part of why you might be concerned. They can win by margin if the Rams like, you know, start pulling guys. But I like the Rams to be live here.
- [28:20]
Bill Simmons
Rams money line with the over 38 and a half is plus four, 38.
- [28:26]
Joe House
It's fun. It's fun.
- [28:28]
Bill Simmons
Rams plus six and a half teased in a four point tease on FanDuel up to 10 and a half with the Chiefs 14 and a half. Oh, and you can. And that's plus 110 on FanDuel if you want to talk yourself into Chiefs and Rams not probably going to roll over in these games. So that's sitting there for us quickly and the Chiefs. I just I'd be really scared of taking the other side in this game. I could see the Chiefs winning. I don't think Wentz is going to be that bad.
- [29:05]
Joe House
I wouldn't lay the ten and a half and I'll be glad to grab the 14 and a half if that's what you're offering me in this, in this four point tees. The Chiefs are not an F around team. They have been in this circumstance four times over the last sort of five six years or so and they tend to cover and they tend to win outright. I think they're they, they've covered three out of the four of these situations and they've won outright at least a couple times. They are not to be trifled with. And and this is still yet Denver on a losing streak with their rookie quarterback in his highest leverage game of his entire career and he's capable of throwing some picks. I mean I the the Chiefs calling card has been their defense all season long. Now their, their secondary is vulnerable. But let's let's you know before we get super excited about Bo Nix in a must win playoff kind of situation. I mean ten and a half. Come on.
- [30:04]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. It almost seems like maybe there's two ways to play it. We could just do smaller bets on the Chiefs plus 10 and a half and the Rams plus six and a half and assume you're going to split those and maybe win both. You could tease them together with the little four point tees plus ten and a half plus six and plus ten and a half to plus fourteen and a half plus six and a half plus ten and a half or you have some fun. Do Chiefs money over 39 and a half. That's plus 744 on FanDuel. Rams money over 38 and a half plus 438. Just put small ones on both and hope one of them hits and we'll have an answer for you at the end of Million Dollar Picks. Two games I want to bet on. I want to bet against the Pats and I want to bet against the Titans and here's why the lines are crazy low. Bills are favored minus two and a half over the Pats. Texans are favored minus one and a half at the Titans. I have no idea why the Pats or Titans would want to win this game. And you can go back to The Giants game last week and say, well, you would have said that about the Giants. I watched that entire Giants game. It was a complete fluky collapse by Indianapolis combined with Drew Locke. Just had a really good game. And if you're Drew Locke, why wouldn't you want to have a good game? You're like trying to, you know, prove that you could be a starting quarterback next year. That game just kind of fell away from the Colts. It was a coaching abomination. There was a special teams touchdown. There are all these specific reasons Bill's pats like it's. And I'm going to talk to my dad later in the pod about why Drake May's playing. Just what's. How just awful this past season's been. I can't believe that they would just give away the number one pick in the last week of the season.
- [31:52]
Joe House
Is Drake May really playing? Are they just saying that maybe he.
- [31:55]
Bill Simmons
Plays one quarter and leaves or.
- [31:58]
Joe House
It really makes no sense whatsoever. None. The only person that it makes sense for is Gerard Mayo. Well, so this fucking football team.
- [32:08]
Bill Simmons
But this is the problem. If he. If the coach and everybody knew they were coming back next year, this is where we go. We're going to start Joe Milton. We want to take a look for him at him in week 18. And we're going to try some other guys. We're going to sit Gonzalez. If you don't know you're coming back, you kind of want to win. You want to end the game on a high note. You don't want somebody to say, hey, you guys looked like shit the last couple weeks of the season. Yeah, because I benched my quarterback, motherfucker.
- [32:32]
Joe House
A Week 18 win over the Bills who've said everybody is really going to change the out the career trajectory of Jared Mayo. He stunk all season long. We've had 17 games of evidence. Like, you know, the paths to be fair are exactly where they should be. It's what the market anticipated. It's why they're. They had the lowest forecasted win total of the year. And here, here we are. Congratulations on getting it done. But like the twists and turns have been bizarre and it does make you wonder who's in charge. And I think this coming Sunday game, the crafts better step in. Whoever the. What's the GM's name? Van Pelt. Is that the guy?
- [33:11]
Bill Simmons
No, he's the O.C. the GM is. Is the interim GM is Elliott Wolf, who whatever after Drake May put together one of the worst drafts in the history of the NFL. No, you have to lose the game. And, and it's indefensible because if they get the first pick, they're going to be able to trade back. Even if they trade back three spots to number four and get more picks, you're just basically giving away players and you're not going to take a quarterback at the top anyway. There's no defense.
- [33:39]
Joe House
It's, it's long term leverage. It's franchise altering leverage. And, and you know when you, when you weigh the risk, when you weigh the cost benefit of a Week 18 win versus the trajectory for your effing franchise going forward, you have the cornerstone quarterback. The thing that you need to do now is get other good players on the effing football team. And the only way to do that, the fastest way to do that is by doing the thing you're sitting and looking at right the second, which is to lose the mother effing game and get as much as you can in terms of capital. This is like very basic business building proposition shit right here.
- [34:17]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. And we only have two good players and Gonzalez had a concussion last week, so he shouldn't play. May's been banged up, took a big shot last week. You sit those two guys, it's it. They just don't have enough talent to beat even the Bills second string. So I like the Bills minus two and a half and I really like the Texans minus one half against the Titans. I think the Titans are terrible. The stretch that they've just been on recently is, is just a roller coaster ride of, of shit. And you know, the Texans have lost their last two. Right. They're, they've locked up the four seed for a while, but they kind of need to play well for a game. It's like you could say, like, oh, they don't need the game they're already in. It's like, nah, they kind of need to look good for three hours. And I just find it hard to believe they're going to toss away the game and go into the playoffs finishing nine and eight for the season, hosting somebody good, either the Chargers or the Steelers, and just not feel good about anything that's happened for a month.
- [35:20]
Joe House
I totally agree. I totally agree.
- [35:21]
Bill Simmons
I want to bet both of these and I think we split at least one. If the Pats and Titans both win, that means the Browns are going to have the first pick in the draft. When do things ever work out for the Browns?
- [35:33]
Joe House
Oh, that's, I feel bad.
- [35:35]
Bill Simmons
Ever. Sorry, fans. You know it's true.
- [35:38]
Joe House
Yeah. I mean Cleveland writ large did get LeBron, so we can't. You know, Cleveland's had some, some, some good 21 years ago and he left. I'm just saying 30. But you know, he brought him a title over the last 30 years. We don't have to say that Cleveland's, you know. Well, then they got the Kyrie.
- [35:54]
Bill Simmons
They got, they won the Kyrie lottery because the league felt bad for them. That's one of my five. Are we sure this was. Lottery was on the level?
- [36:02]
Joe House
In any event, the guys on the action Network that call the, the tight. The Titans, the point shavers, which I think is fantastic and I totally agree with.
- [36:12]
Bill Simmons
What are they, 2 and 14 against the spread. Yes.
- [36:15]
Joe House
The worst. They, they, they have locked in the worst they can. They've already done. They're already at the worst. But if they lose this spread as well, then they are the historically the worst against the spread in the history of the NFL.
- [36:27]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. And the thing is their, their quarterbacks suck. I just don't see it. I think they're terrible. They're. They're. They lost to Jacksonville last week.
- [36:37]
Joe House
They got swept by Jacksonville. It's an organizational disaster. I couldn't believe with my own eyes I had gambled on them. When they came to Washington and they had just beaten Houston and Washington was laying six and a half. I was like, oh, that's. And the Titans at that point had some advanced analytics that said their defense was good. They are, they're, they suck the high heaven. I think Washington had 200 yards rushing in the first half. They, they're abysmal organizationally. So, yeah, really, that. Let's go easy to go against the Titans.
- [37:05]
Bill Simmons
All right, so we'll put Pat. We'll put stuff against the Pats and Titans, the two big games I want to focus on. And there's so many games where it's like, I don't know if that team's going to care. I don't know if this team's going to care. I don't know who's playing. I don't know what the motivation is. But we know Vikings, Lions and Steelers, Bengals. We know that all four of those teams are going to give a shit about the game. Steelers, Bengals, everybody's on the Bengals. It feels like the line is Bengals minus one and a half. In Pittsburgh, the Bengals are eight and eight for the year. The Bengals have really no good wins. Last week's win was probably the best win they've had of the season. I don't think their defense is good. Bone dick's missed multiple wide open guys and he hit one, but he missed three others. I thought the Broncos should have won the game. I know Burrow's really good. I know Burrow with Chase and Higgins are really good together. Chase, Brown, ankle injury. They're not going to be able to run the ball the same, but to me this is a Steelers moment. I think they need the game. If they win, they're the five seed. If they're the five seed, they get to go to Houston and play a Houston team that none of us think are good. They should beat the Houston team. They beat that Houston team. Assuming the rest of the playoffs goes chalk for round one, then they would go to Kansas City for round two. Kansas City coming off, you know, God only knows what they do this week, bye week, next week Pittsburgh's going to go into Kansas City, be like, yeah, we can play with these dudes. I don't really like what I've seen from Pittsburgh the last few weeks, and I know you don't either. But they also had this crazy three games in 11 days stretch against three of the five best teams in the league and now I think their stock's too low. We've been at the crafts table house with the Steelers a lot and we stayed a little too long in that Philly game and we got our ass kicked. I'm ready to put some money and some, some dice and some chips down on the craps table on the Steelers again. I think they're going to win.
- [39:03]
Joe House
Yeah, you and I are seeing this exactly eye to eye and I think we. It's important to continue to emphasize that the perception of the Steelers because of this three game stretch, this three game slide, which was always circled in bright red as being an impossible task at the end of a season, going up against the three best teams in the NFL by, you know, a lot of ways you want to assess it, yes, Detroit and Minnesota, but this, this is with. Without their best receiver, an offense that needs that receiver that needs that over the top option and the perception of, of who the Bengals have become because they had a luck win against the Cowboys, a special teams luck win against the Cowboys and then they beat the Titans and then they beat the Browns and then they held on against the Broncos at home and what was for them a playoff game because if they lost, there was no playoff possibility whatsoever. It was not exactly a cover in glory moment for the Bengals that their defense absolutely, positively was right there trying to give up that game.
- [40:13]
Bill Simmons
And well, think about the special teams piece too. Like that.
- [40:16]
Joe House
Amazing.
- [40:17]
Bill Simmons
I don't trust their kicker at all. This is going to be a three point. This is going to be a classic Steelers Pittsburgh Tomlin game. And the Steelers have Boswell and these guys have a kicker that I don't trust from any distance. Basically.
- [40:29]
Joe House
Absolutely, positively right. And remember that the the Bengals last loss was to the Steelers in Cincinnati where The Steelers had 530 yards of offense. I think they have it dialed. I think they understand how to exploit this the Cincinnati defense. And it feels like a tremendous opportunity to grab the Steelers here getting points at home. It's like classic Tomlin moment. So disrespectful.
- [40:54]
Bill Simmons
Steelers with some rest. Ten days between the Wednesday and the Saturday so they're able to heal. I love this. This is a classic classic Tom game. Look, if they lose, if Burrow kills them, I'm not going to regret betting on the Steelers.
- [41:10]
Joe House
I feel the same way off.
- [41:11]
Bill Simmons
The Steelers have come through over and over again in this spot at home. We've seen it too many times and, and I think there's real stakes for them. That's the piece the Rams. I get it. Like it's like okay, either we're going to be hosting Washington in the 36 or we're hosting probably the Lions coming off a really physical, brutal playoff game in the 4 5. It matters, but it doesn't really 100% matter. This Steelers thing matters. The difference between playing Houston in Houston versus going to fucking Baltimore and playing Baltimore for the third time. This really matters to them. And I don't think that. I think The Bengals are 8 and 8 for a reason.
- [41:52]
Joe House
I agree.
- [41:52]
Bill Simmons
It's not like, you know, T. Higgins missed a few weeks. Right? Other than that, this is who they are. They have a couple good players and a lot of shitty ones.
- [42:00]
Joe House
It's the defense. The defense has been bad all season. You can't count on that defense. The defense doesn't get stops when they need to. That's not who this team is.
- [42:08]
Bill Simmons
So do you like the Steelers plus one and a half or do you just like the Steelers plus 110?
- [42:14]
Joe House
I like the money line.
- [42:16]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, the plus one 10.
- [42:17]
Joe House
I think they're going to win.
- [42:19]
Bill Simmons
It's a little more appetizing. And then the other one is Vikings, Lions. And I feel like now every Thursday I'm just talking about the Vikings. How I don't understand why people don't realize they're good. They came through again last week and the best possible thing happened in that game last week. They dominated. Their kicker missed a couple of field goals. The packers really Got it going with eight minutes left when the Vikings were way up, they stopped blitzing as much and doing some of the stuff that got them the spot there in the first three quarters. Laid back a little bit. Love started to look good and all of a sudden it was, you know, a two point game as the final score. It was not a two point game. The Vikings are awesome.
- [43:02]
Joe House
That's been the tale for the Vikings all season long. You look at their resume, you're going to see a slew of one score games. They are one score games because they were beating the crap out of teams. And then teams came back on him. I mean, Jordan loved these nuts. Did it twice. He came back, you know, and made the game inside of a one one score game. And you know, this was very quick aside. Jordan loved these nuts. They need to handle their business against Chicago because I think Washington, this game will be going on simultaneously. I like Washington, but Washington, Dallas is always, always a walker.
- [43:37]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [43:37]
Joe House
Yes. You do not like, say, oh yeah, Washington should walk over. So I think and, and the, the, the packers need to like, you know, show something. They got their ass beat. That was a physical. They got out physical. Their, their defensive line got out physical by the Minnesota front. So Jordan loved these nuts and the packers better show up and show out. But for the, for the Vikings, I have one way that I want to play this and I, I really, I'm not convinced to move too far beyond the way that I want to play it.
- [44:09]
Bill Simmons
What's here.
- [44:11]
Joe House
I love them as a teaser leg. I think it's an incredible teaser leg. Taking them as two and a half point dogs and pushing them up to eight and a half. The Lions are not in any kind of way, shape or form in a position to win by margin. And they can't win by margin because.
- [44:26]
Bill Simmons
They'Re to protect the lead when they're up 14 in the fourth quarter.
- [44:30]
Joe House
Yeah. And I respect the Lions so much. But look, they could have and should have lost that game against San Francisco. I mean, the Niners had a million chances.
- [44:41]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [44:41]
Joe House
Missed field goals, Purdy overthrowing guys. Both of his interceptions to Kirby were grotesque overthrows. They were both directly on Brock Purdy.
- [44:50]
Bill Simmons
Then he got hurt at the end.
- [44:51]
Joe House
Yeah. So, I mean, and, and so you. I don't think Minnesota is going to aid and abet its own demise the way that the Niners did. But this game to me is like, you know, razor thin. I have tons of respect for the Vikings and everything they've done. This is like for. It's such a Good matchup. Dan Campbell and Koc like really good coaching matchup and you know, home team. The line seems right to me. Two and a half seems. Seems fair. I just love the idea of the Vikings getting more than a touchdown.
- [45:28]
Bill Simmons
I think the Vikings are going to win and I want to bet on that piece of it. That's fine. But I also want to put them in a tease because I agree with you. Like there's stuff we could do. We could do Pittsburgh plus four and a half and Minnesota plus seven and a half. That's plus one 12.
- [45:41]
Joe House
Great one.
- [45:42]
Bill Simmons
We could do Washington minus two 20 just to win with Minnesota plus seven and a half. That's around even odds. We could do that as well. Those would be my, my two.
- [45:54]
Joe House
I don't want to Washington.
- [45:57]
Bill Simmons
You were nervous about this Washington game?
- [45:59]
Joe House
Yes, yes, I was nervous about the game. What they did against the Eagles, that comeback against a division rival and everything they put out. And then for them to bounce back and show up and take care of business against the Falcons again in the most dramatic fashion possible at some point, the cumulative effect of that. This is a storybook season for Washington. They lead the league in come from behind victories. They lead the league in terms of scoring inside the last minute. They lead the league in fourth down conversions. Like there's a whole bunch of stuff. It would be a rightful capper for this Washington team to beat Dallas in week 18, push themselves into the the six seed. Like, like that is a absolute unbelievable miracle for the franchise. But man, the last 25 years, you must take recognition and take note. That's all.
- [46:54]
Bill Simmons
So you're rooting for Trey Lance.
- [46:56]
Joe House
I am definitely not. Under no circumstances. I hate Dallas. I'm rooting.
- [47:00]
Bill Simmons
No, no, I'm saying you're rooting for Trey Lance to be named starter for.
- [47:03]
Joe House
This game that he starts.
- [47:04]
Bill Simmons
That helps because he's not a. He's not a professional quarterback.
- [47:07]
Joe House
He is not. Oh, thank God. Yeah. If he's the quarterback, I'm really rooting for him.
- [47:12]
Bill Simmons
So it sounds like we should put Vikings plus 1:30 and Steelers plus 1:10. We should just bet those and then do a tease. Maybe with. I mean the other way to do it is just do the tease and make that the big bet.
- [47:28]
Joe House
I like the tease better because I do think the resourcefulness of Detroit and their incredible backbone over the course of this entire season, even in the face of all that bad injury luck, they just keep coming out. I love so much the Campbell.
- [47:43]
Bill Simmons
No, Montgomery too.
- [47:44]
Joe House
Yeah, I know. I mean, I just. Look, it's it's just they're. They're decimated. It's a bummer. I hate it. I hate the injury look for them, but they're badasses. I just want.
- [47:53]
Bill Simmons
My only fear is I don't want to lose. Like if. If one of these two teams screws up somehow and then we lose both games. That's my fear. Because that happened last week. Because I love Minnesota last week. And you threw some water on it. You scared me off a little. And we ended up putting them in a parlay with the Colts and the Colts lost. And then I just. I won nothing on Minnesota, even though that was one of my favorite bets. So.
- [48:16]
Joe House
I understand.
- [48:17]
Bill Simmons
Part of me wonders get. Well, part of me wonders, just do the Vikings, Steelers money lines and then maybe we do that.
- [48:24]
Joe House
Steelers can lose. I mean, you're saying individually, just play the separate money line.
- [48:29]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. Say separate money lines. No, not parlay.
- [48:32]
Joe House
Okay, fine, Great. I get what you're saying.
- [48:34]
Bill Simmons
And then do the tease together.
- [48:36]
Joe House
Okay. Oh, I love that. Because the teaser leg for the Steelers is tremendous as well. From one and a half up to seven and a half. Love that.
- [48:45]
Bill Simmons
I think that's the move. Okay, so we do Vikings, moneyline, Steelers, Moneyline, Pittsburgh with the little tees and then Bill's Texan stuff. And you want to put anything on Chiefs, Rams or no.
- [48:59]
Joe House
If you want to do that four point tease. I kind of loved it. Tease the rams up to 10 and a half and tease the Chiefs up to 14 and a half. Kind of loved it. The sound of it.
- [49:10]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, we can. We'll just put a little tiny bit on that. And do you agree that we should probably scale back this week?
- [49:16]
Joe House
Yeah. Oh, my God. Don't. Yeah. Don't bet anything meaningful. We pulled everything out of our ass last week. The only thing that was a setback in any way, shape or form was the stupid Colts.
- [49:26]
Bill Simmons
I know. But you know what? We should have known better. We should have known better, you know, not to put. They were. They were seven point favorites.
- [49:33]
Joe House
Yeah.
- [49:34]
Bill Simmons
And had no business being seven point favorites over anybody. And that was a rare. Like, we got suckered in on a bad team, basically just assuming the Giants would take care of business. And it was just a classic. Colts are an absolute, absolute everybody needs to go situation.
- [49:51]
Joe House
And they probably will, hilariously. Atlanta is in the exact same spot right now. Atlanta is laying seven and a half just the exact same way the Colts were laying seven and a half. Atlanta's laying seven and a half to Carolina. You know, who's been spunky not doing that. I'm doing that.
- [50:08]
Bill Simmons
I'm staying away from the nfc, Seth.
- [50:10]
Joe House
Okay, good. Fine.
- [50:11]
Bill Simmons
All right. Million dollar picks, week 18. Last week we won $641,000.
- [50:19]
Joe House
It's pretty good.
- [50:19]
Bill Simmons
We are up $2.177 million for the year and we double the nut. We're going to scale back this week.
- [50:29]
Joe House
Smart.
- [50:29]
Bill Simmons
Because it's week 18. It's a stupid week. I want to have a nice little $2 million nest egg for the playoffs.
- [50:35]
Joe House
The playoffs, baby.
- [50:36]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. I don't want to. I don't want to be like, ah, what were we? I don't want to be at the blackjack table 20 minutes too long after they change the dealers. Let's just take it nice and easy. Maybe we throw away the moneyline bets and just do Pittsburgh, Minnesota as the tease that we talked about.
- [50:51]
Joe House
Fine. It's one of my favorite bets of the week.
- [50:53]
Bill Simmons
All right. All right. First bet, Pittsburgh. We're going to do a slight adjusted parlay with them plus four and a half. Pittsburgh against Cincinnati with Minnesota plus seven half against Detroit. That is plus 112 on FanDuel. And the reasoning for this? We don't think Pittsburgh is being judged correctly after their horrible three games in 11 days stretch. They are now 10 days rest against a team that they put 500 plus yards on their home. They're underdogs. This is the all time classic Tomlins situation. And then Minnesota plus seven half. I think we both think they're better than Detroit, but this gives us some buffer if anything weird happens. Even if they're down 10 or 14 late, they're going to get the cheap touchdown because the trade stinks. So that's +112. We'll put 150k on that.
- [51:51]
Joe House
Okay.
- [51:51]
Bill Simmons
Just to respect ourselves.
- [51:53]
Joe House
Fair, fair, fair.
- [51:54]
Bill Simmons
And then I want to put 50k each on Vikings plus 130 and Steelers plus 110.
- [52:03]
Joe House
Great. No argument.
- [52:05]
Bill Simmons
All right then we are going to put 100k on two teams against two teams that should not want to win this weekend. The Patriots and the titans. So Bill's -2 and a half hundred K on that over the Pats.
- [52:19]
Joe House
Good.
- [52:20]
Bill Simmons
The Pats win. I'm going to lose my mind. I'm just telling you right now. Just don't just mute me on Twitter. Just do it. Do it now. I'm going to fucking lose my mind. Don't watch the Sunday podcast. I'm going to lose my mind if they win this game. Oh, Texans minus one.
- [52:37]
Joe House
I kind of want to see it.
- [52:39]
Bill Simmons
Texans Minus one and a half over the Titans.
- [52:41]
Joe House
The point shavers.
- [52:42]
Bill Simmons
Yes, the point. The Titans.
- [52:45]
Joe House
Texans over the point shavers.
- [52:47]
Bill Simmons
Let's go for 2 and 15 against the spread this season. Which is the most you just couldn't bet against them every week you'd be up a kajillion dollars. That could have been million dollar picks.
- [52:56]
Joe House
Yeah, right. A kajillion dollar fifty.
- [52:59]
Bill Simmons
So we're putting 100k each on that. And then last but not least, just a little 50k flyer on Chiefs plus 14 and a half adjusted with Rams plus 10 and a half. That is plus 110 on FanDuel. We just feel like the Chiefs are going to hang around and make the Denver fans nervous and I think the Rams are going to hang around because I don't think McVeigh is a. I just want to throw a game away. Guy think he's a. Let me see, let me see what we have with Blake Corum. Let me see what Jimmy G. What's. What do I got here?
- [53:34]
Joe House
He trusts Jimmy G. Yeah.
- [53:35]
Bill Simmons
What do I got with my third and fourth receivers? Maybe I'll run some trick shit. I just think he'll. I think he'll have some fun in this game and get the team ready. So 50k on that. And those are the million dollar picks for week 18. There's one more stake for this house heading into the weekend. I need a Houston win and I need an Arizona win and I finish future over unders. That's. Oh, and I did before the season. I'll be 27 and 5 right now. I'm 25 and 5. Houston win, they go over Arizona win. They go over 27 and five house.
- [54:14]
Joe House
That's like. That's, that's, that's getting the job done. That's very well done at some point.
- [54:19]
Bill Simmons
That's just impressive. Like, like somebody. Somebody. As I said it last week.
- [54:24]
Joe House
You don't have to say it.
- [54:25]
Bill Simmons
No, we need, we need the positive media account. Somebody who just points out positive takes that people had or great takes on something or like just, hey, this person's been successful lately. Like cousin Sal with the, with the wise wagers when he was 13 and 2. Hey, look at this. Kudos to him. We need more positivity on social media in 2025 anyway. Houston, Arizona. If I can hit Both of those 27 and 5, I'm rooting for you. Keeping my fingers crossed.
- [54:53]
Joe House
I'm rooting for you.
- [54:54]
Bill Simmons
Good luck with Washington. So when you're here for round one, Rams, Washington is in play.
- [55:01]
Joe House
In play. I mean, I don't want to that Saturday night talk about it. It's just, it's just too rich of a possibility. Let's just humbly acknowledge to the football guys there is some possibility if everything went the way the universe.
- [55:12]
Bill Simmons
Rams get the three seed, Washington gets the six seed. Maybe that's the Amazon Saturday night game. You're going to be here. We'd have to like seriously consider going to that game.
- [55:23]
Joe House
Oh no, we wouldn't consider it. We're going, we're. And I already know where we're, who we're going to sit with. I mean, you know, we've, we've got all. We've got Washington fans in Los Angele. The ownership of Washington would be so thrilled to see some of us. I think we'd have a tremendous time rooting for it.
- [55:42]
Bill Simmons
Well, you'll see us there. I would actually root for Washington in that game, I think.
- [55:47]
Joe House
Thank you. Thank you.
- [55:49]
Bill Simmons
But I'd also be rooting because I'm sure we'd be with Chang.
- [55:53]
Joe House
Yes, we would be.
- [55:54]
Bill Simmons
I'd also be rooting for his three and a half hour roller coaster ride of a possible mental breakdown. Watching him do it as he just angrily eats stuff too. Like he gets out all his neuroticism with food. That would be really fun to watch.
- [56:08]
Joe House
That's why we get along well, me and Chang.
- [56:10]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. All right.
- [56:11]
Joe House
There with him.
- [56:11]
Bill Simmons
House. Happy New Year. Great to see you.
- [56:13]
Joe House
Happy New Year. Great to see you as well. Let's go.
- [56:19]
Bill Simmons
Sean. Fantasy is here. Gamut of emotions for him right now. End of the movie year, end of another depressing jet season, but maybe the start of something special with the Knicks. So I don't know. You want to start positive for once?
- [56:32]
Sean Fennessy
I would love to. What do you mean the start of something positive? It's been an amazing three plus years here.
- [56:37]
Bill Simmons
Now you're feeling contendery in a real way.
- [56:40]
Sean Fennessy
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm glad to hear you say that. You were pretty down on that Bridges trade. I think we were both down on the Carl Anthony.
- [56:46]
Bill Simmons
A lot of picks trade. A lot of picks. Yeah.
- [56:48]
Sean Fennessy
Can we talk about the picks?
- [56:50]
Bill Simmons
Well, they're not going to matter that much if the team's really good for the rest of the decade.
- [56:54]
Sean Fennessy
That's what I was going to say. I'm not crazy about that 20, 31 pick, but all these other picks, I don't know if they're a 55 win team for the next five years. Who cares?
- [57:02]
Bill Simmons
Who cares? It's a great way to think about it. The towns thing is the win of wins though, because that could have gone nine different ways. And it feels like at least so far we are almost. We're two and a half months in the season. So far it's gone as well as it could have possibly gone. And he's way more popular than even I could have expected in my wildest dreams and he's really fun to watch and it just feels like he's at the peak of whatever his powers are.
- [57:28]
Sean Fennessy
I was not really a fan of him as a player, but I think watching him on the Knicks has revealed how much I was not watching the T Wolves, honestly, because he's even more skilled than I had realized and he's a good fit with this roster. And I thought for some reason that him and Thibodeau had a really bad experience together, but that does not seem to be the case.
- [57:46]
Bill Simmons
No, that's true.
- [57:48]
Sean Fennessy
But they seem to be getting along great now. I don't understand how they repaired that, but he fits this team very well. Obviously he doesn't play great defense as your key interior defender, but that's not the plan, I don't think long term. So I don't know. It's weird. They, they're really. They had a cupcake schedule in December for sure and they. But they've also played a ton of games on the road so it's, it's weird. Like they really could be like a 55 win team and they may might be the second or third best team in the NBA right now. Maybe. Maybe fourth. Fourth seems right.
- [58:18]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. I'm talking later in the pod I talked to my dad about the Celtics and, and you know, they have a really hard part of the schedule coming up. There's a chance for the Knicks to grab the two seed here and have at least home court for the first two rounds if they wanted to. But the thing that I'm. I mentioned this to Goldsberry on Tuesday. The thing that I worry about as a Celtic fan with them is the buyout potential of one or two guys who are like, yeah, cool, I'll be in New York for three, four months and shoot some threes for you and grab some rebounds.
- [58:48]
Sean Fennessy
So I heard you say that to Kirk. So like who's on that list in your mind? Who's somebody who's hard to come over?
- [58:53]
Bill Simmons
Well, because so many teams are doing well or doing decent or you know, haven't really packed it in yet. You don't, you kind of don't know who the candidates are yet. So like, like Detroit had that terrible Jaden Ivey injury yesterday. Right. Detroit was playing really well. He was a huge part of what they were doing. And then, you know, Cole Anthony goes in his leg, he's out for the air. It sucks. But maybe now, maybe that's a team that says, ah, yeah, maybe we're not a playoff team now, and goes the other way. And now there's buyout guys in the team. I just don't know.
- [59:21]
Sean Fennessy
Knicks fans have been talking about getting beef stew in the mix in some way for. For months, I think since the Towns deal happened. Knowing that they needed a more interior defense. And that's a he. He feels real Nixie to me. Um, I think he would fit in really well with the snooze.
- [59:37]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. I think we'd have to trade for him though, is the problem.
- [59:40]
Sean Fennessy
We would. Yeah.
- [59:40]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. You're looking at more. Yeah, you're looking at more. The dudes, I don't know on the Portland, those kind of teams, the Sacramentos, who knows? But I'm sure it'll be somebody. And it won't be somebody we're expecting either. But yeah, it's fun that Nick. Celtics. Probably going to be round two. Probably going to be the two, three would be my guess. Unless something dramatic happens and that will be the most meaningful. Celtics, Knicks. These teams are actually pretty even in 40 years.
- [60:09]
Sean Fennessy
Bill, I'm sensing a real. A little bit of a sadness in your voice about this, about the Knicks being a legitimate franchise.
- [60:16]
Bill Simmons
I'm happy for the fans. No, the league's better when the Knicks are good. I'm happy. I'm happy for the, for the fan base.
- [60:24]
Sean Fennessy
Everyone says that. But if we go to the NBA Finals, we will be insufferable. Everyone will hate the Knicks in seconds. Ask Philadelphia fans how they feel about Knicks fans right now. They fucking hate us because of what happened in last spring. So I think it's cool that we're a good story. And what can you say? Like Leon Rose, I never would have guessed in a million years that he would have been this good at roster construction. Almost every move he has made, barring a couple of signings like the Kemba signing, have been brilliant. And he's been able to wriggle his way out of bad moves very well. And he's drafted. Well, I don't. It's. It's wild. It's been very exciting.
- [61:02]
Bill Simmons
There's a really fun scenario where the Sixers are in the playing and somehow get to a spot where The Knicks are the 2 seed and somehow the Sixers win the 78 game, and all of a sudden we get Sixers, Knicks again. Because that's threatening to be the best rivalry in the NBA with the hatred from the fan bases.
- [61:23]
Sean Fennessy
Yeah, obviously, the Sixers look a lot better now, too. And the matchup would be so significantly different because you've got Paul George and Mikhail Bridges and Karl Anthony Townes, who were not a part of that matchup last year, plus a bunch of other guys affiliated to their roster, too. So it would be different, but the same. I mean, one of my favorite sports memories of 2024 is the Devo double bang, you know, which, you know, didn't end that series, but it felt like it ended that series. And I felt like a. I felt a tide shifting in the conference when that happened. I was like, oh, wow, we are where the Sixers were three years ago. Like, we are a team that people are like, they're not the best team in the conference, but you don't want to fuck with them. And we are missing Dante. So that's a guy. Can Dante be bought out and resigned? Is that on the table? Can you resign if you've been traded?
- [62:14]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, I don't know the rule on that, but he's playing too well. I don't see. I don't see a scenario for that. You'll get somebody interesting. It's weird to see you because not only do you have this, but the Mets steal Soto from the Yankees. You have that, too. Like, we head into 2025 with real new York sports optimism from you for once.
- [62:31]
Sean Fennessy
Yeah, I feel like I'm about to be fired or something. You know, it's like things are going well for me with my sports teams. We will get to the jets, but, yeah, the Soto thing is unreal. I don't even know how to talk about it. This is something that never would have happened through the first 40 years of my life. Obviously, Steve Cohen has changed the Mets pretty dramatically. I also don't think that they're a playoff team right now, if you look at their roster. So I'm not going to get over my skis about the Mets. They still have a lot of work to do, and their pitching staff, when you compare it to the rest of the National League east, is not very good, candidly. So The Soto thing is unreal. Soto, Lindor Vientos is very, very exciting. But we'll see. We will see. What's gonna happen with Pete Alonso? Will they trade for a pitcher? There's a lot to happen there, but they've totally Changed their reputation in baseball, which is fucking awesome.
- [63:20]
Bill Simmons
All right, enough optimism.
- [63:21]
Sean Fennessy
The jets couldn't wait. You could not wait to get off of that.
- [63:26]
Bill Simmons
This is it. This is it for Rogers and Devonte Adams and the coach. And you need a new GM and you obviously need a new owner, but that's not happening. There was a big athletic story about how weird it is with the owner and his kids being involved. And it was just over and over again, the data confirming the anecdotes, confirming the eye test, confirming that this is one of the most memorable shit shows in a while. You predicted it before the season. It's been even worse than I think you would have imagined.
- [64:01]
Sean Fennessy
I would not have predicted 4 and 13. I would have said maybe 7 and 10 and they missed the playoffs or 8 and 9 and they missed the.
- [64:09]
Bill Simmons
Playoffs last year they were 7 and 10 with Zach Wilson.
- [64:12]
Sean Fennessy
Yep, they were 7 and 10 with Zach wilson two seasons in a row. And they're about to go 4 and 13, probably with Aaron Rodgers and basically great health. They have not had a lot of massive injuries. They lost C.J. mosley for a while. They've had some. Some health issues on the offensive line. But, like, Rogers hasn't missed a game. Breeze Hall's only missed one or two games. I think Garrett Wilson hasn't missed a game. I mean, their best players are playing and they stink. They're terribly coached. Aaron Rodgers is obviously an awful influence on the organization. I still don't really understand what the fuck he's talking about in public. Like 85% of the time. I have no idea why he's grinding axes the way that he is, considering how poorly he's played. His stats are really good and they're very deceptive if you've been watching the games, which I unfortunately have been. He can't move as well in the pocket and he's so, so careful in his desire to not make a mistake that he often doesn't take chances where you need to to have an exciting offense. So it's just not fun to watch what should at least be like, an entertaining offensive team. They've sucked on offense this year, so it's been horrible.
- [65:16]
Bill Simmons
The body language doctor has not liked anything he's seen.
- [65:21]
Sean Fennessy
No, you gotta get him out of there.
- [65:23]
Bill Simmons
That point that you made earlier, though, not being able to understand what his agenda or his point is in some of his interviews, I think is a great point because sometimes I'll see transcripts or there'll be some clip that goes on Twitter and it's like Roger says this on McAfee and I watch it and you almost wonder is like, is this a, is this a bit like, what's he doing?
- [65:47]
Sean Fennessy
I think he's just really online and really like responding to the critics. But we don't know who the critics are because we don't see his mentions, the mentions of his mind. I mean, he just seems like a really weird guy right now.
- [65:59]
Bill Simmons
Well, that's especially to be the guy who's supposed to be the calming force, the driver of your race car, when you have somebody super erratic who now seems like he's clearly hoping he doesn't have to come back next year and seems like he's getting a little bridge burning so they'll maybe get rid of him.
- [66:18]
Sean Fennessy
Can I suggest a theory to you?
- [66:20]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, let's hear it.
- [66:22]
Sean Fennessy
So let's look at the last 10 years of professional athletes. We've had more and more great stars play longer and longer into their careers, right? We've got Tom Brady, we've got LeBron James, you know, even like Federer played for a very long time, like a lot of great athletes who extended their careers for health reasons or what have you. But a lot of those people have gotten like more and more odd in their public Persona. And one way to think about it is like being famous for a long time makes you kind of crazy, right? It makes you paranoid, it makes you, makes you entitled. But I'm about the same age as Aaron Rodgers and like, I'm getting weirder and I'm getting riddled with anxieties and there are certain things that I'm like, my body is breaking down and I'm getting bent out of shape about it and I've got a family and I've got different kinds of responsibilities. So it's like when you're 27 and you're locked in on your sport and the thing that you're doing, it's because you don't have anything else going on in your life. When you get older and your parents start dying and you start thinking about your legacy, whatever the hell that is, you get weird. And Aaron Rodgers just seems like he's been going through a midlife crisis for like four years. And we keep thinking he's the guy from 2011 in Green Bay. And he's not. He's just a middle aged guy who just happens to be one of the best throwers of the football of all time. And so it's been fucking annoying that the one time we got a genuinely great quarterback, it happened to coincide with him Going through a personal emotional crisis and we're watching it transpire in real time.
- [67:51]
Bill Simmons
It's a good theory. Well, I wonder how much of that ties into Covid and how weird so many people got just being alone for 9, 10 months during COVID and getting pushed to be more and more online and like if you did, if you didn't have a family around, like, and you're just by yourself a lot, like, what were the ramifications of that? We both know people in our lives that just pre post Covid just felt like they were slightly different people. Yeah.
- [68:15]
Sean Fennessy
Look at cr. He's completely falling apart.
- [68:17]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, CR is like. I mean, I wasn't even gonna mention that. CR Is CR Style maniac. Now I don't know how it plays out, but I do feel like there's some end game with him where he's not going to retire and he clearly thinks something is happening for him next year somewhere and I just don't know where that is.
- [68:36]
Sean Fennessy
Yeah, I was thinking about that too. He probably should retire. He can clearly still play. I don't know if he can play.
- [68:43]
Bill Simmons
I don't know. I don't feel like he can move in the same way anymore.
- [68:46]
Sean Fennessy
He can't.
- [68:47]
Bill Simmons
Thing that's notable this year is he used to be so great at evading pressure and buying himself two, three. So he just can't do it anymore.
- [68:55]
Sean Fennessy
No.
- [68:55]
Bill Simmons
You know, and, and, and as you said earlier, like doesn't seem like he wants to make mistakes. Like he's going to finish the season with, you know, 26 touchdowns and 10 picks and on paper it'll look great. But he also, he only does throws that are like these safe throws down the sidelines, these like timing catches or like these quick things. And you know, you rather see him just being like Josh Allen gunning it.
- [69:19]
Sean Fennessy
Yeah, I mean, it's hard to watch kind of what the contemporary superstar quarterback is now relative to what his play is like and what the jets quarterback play has been like for the last 50 years. That's the thing is like if he finishes with 26 and 10 and throws for 3,800 yards, that's a top five quarterback season in jets history. Like that's how pathetic the team is. Even though he has been terrible. So it's not ideal. I feel like, I don't know, like if the Cardinals trade Kyler Murray, is there a one year Aaron Rodgers thing that could happen there? You know what I mean? Like there feels like there are some spots where you could comfortably see him in a warm weather situation having one last hurrah. But I just don't want it to be in New York.
- [70:01]
Bill Simmons
I think Brady has ruined our ability to look at all this stuff logically, because quarterbacks are supposed to hit their late 30s and just get worse every year. And then Brady, it just didn't happen with him. And I've said this before, but it's very similar to the LeBron thing. Like, the LeBron thing is just really unusual. We're not going to see a lot of people just play until they're 40 and be able to put up 25, 10 and seven and just bowl through guys even though they've had a gajillion miles. So I don't know. I think this is what. It should end like this. Kirk Cousins, same thing. You should hit your late 30s and you should start becoming worse at quarterback. It's too hard to play movies. Yeah, I'm still getting through all the movies. Okay. There were a lot this year and I fell behind because of basketball and football. But I've seen a lot of them now.
- [70:52]
Sean Fennessy
It was a really busy December. There was a ton of new movies in December.
- [70:56]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, they really dumped a lot of them late. It felt like this weird award strategy or something. And it's been hard to get through all of them with all the other stuff. But I've been trying. I don't have a movie that I really, absolutely love this year and I know you're talking about this on your pod constantly, but was there a movie in 2024 that you're just like, I'm fucking ride or die? I love this movie. I'll fight anybody who didn't like it. It doesn't feel like that movie exists this year.
- [71:24]
Sean Fennessy
No, I have not given five stars to any movie this year.
- [71:28]
Bill Simmons
Are you like Brian Meltzer? Like a five star match?
- [71:32]
Sean Fennessy
I'm honestly developing that. I'm trying my best. I think I've given out eight five star films in the last nine years or ten years. So yeah, no, there were not any this year. Now my favorite movie is the Brutalist, which we can talk about. It is a divisive movie and if people don't like it, I'm not going to pick a fight with you about it. I understand why people don't like aspects of that movie, but no, I think the thing and the thing that you're feeling is the same thing that it seems to be will be an issue for the academy because we've never really gone this far, at least since I've been doing this, where the Best Picture race is as open as it is. I think people genuinely do not know what's going to win Best Picture. And it speaks to that lack of consensus that you're talking about.
- [72:11]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. All these different films have pieces of things that feel like it's the movie of the year, but not the whole thing. We had some weird. What was that? Three Billboards year. We never really decided what the movie was that year. And then.
- [72:24]
Sean Fennessy
Yeah, I mean, that was.
- [72:25]
Bill Simmons
All of a sudden, that was the.
- [72:26]
Sean Fennessy
Roma and Green Book year as well. Or was it the previous year? Maybe that was the previous year. Maybe that was the previous year. That was like get out and Lady Bird and.
- [72:33]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, but those years, those were like Ride or Die movies. We were like, get Out. Like, we had great arguments that year. I remember that Three Billboards year. We just kind of. It's BlacKkKlansman. There was a bunch of them where it was like, ah, I liked it, but I wasn't all the way there. I felt that way about Anora. I thought the first hour of Anora, I was just absolutely riveted. The second hour, it lost an hour. I was still really glad I saw it. I thought it was a really original, awesome, creative movie, but it was a little flawed too.
- [73:03]
Sean Fennessy
I think that's probably the front runner. As much as there can be for Best Picture. It's a movie that I really like. I really like all of Shawn Baker's movies. It isn't my favorite of his movies. I think it's got a great central performance and that helps it a lot. Yeah, but it's a fairy tale about class, you know, like, it's not going to be the most crowd pleasing movie despite it having this insane screwball energy that people seem to be responding to.
- [73:31]
Bill Simmons
Well, it also. The second biggest part in the movie is somebody who's basically insane for two hours. He's Russian. Borat. Yeah. And it's a choice. It was really. Listen, it's really memorable and it has a couple of distinct memorable scenes. But if that won Best Picture, that would be kind of shocking. Conclave has the big twist in the end. Conclave has all the breadcrumbs of what a Best actor. Sorry, Best Film looks like it's another one. It's bringing you into this world. That's kind of cool. There's great actors that I like. I got like 82% there for me doing percentages. It didn't get 100% for me.
- [74:12]
Sean Fennessy
I watched it a second time with my wife over the break and I had the same feeling which is the feeling that I had. I think it's very propulsive and entertaining. It's a great watch. I think the twist is a little silly and ham handed. I had someone suggest to me, I was just talking about this with Amanda. Someone suggest to me that if they had put the twist in the middle of the movie and only had the Ralph Fiennes character know the twist and no one else know, it might have changed the dynamic of the movie and maybe not made the twist feel as like rushed.
- [74:42]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [74:42]
Sean Fennessy
Which was cool. I don't usually like being like your movie would have been better if you'd just done this because I don't fucking know what I'm talking about. But that was a cool idea that I think maybe would have made me feel a little bit better about the movie because it's, you know, the craft is really good. It's edited beautifully. The great performances, like Ralph Fiennes is exceptional in the movie. You know, you got Lithgow and Tucci and my guy Tedesco vaping like, it's just. There's some great stuff in that movie. But it felt a little bit like kind of silly and a little bit like ta da. With the reveal at the end. That made me not like tada.
- [75:12]
Bill Simmons
It didn't feel a little like ta da. It felt a lot like ta da.
- [75:15]
Joe House
Yeah, yeah.
- [75:16]
Bill Simmons
It was like how do we end this? Then somebody got an idea over coffee one day and all of a sudden that was the end of the movie. I didn't think he was better than Chalamet. I thought Fiennes was really good. I thought what Chalamet did. Sierra and I did a Little Ringer movies, YouTube thing about it. I know you talked about it too, but I didn't love the movie. I really liked watching it. I don't know if I would watch it again, but I think I liked watching it for the actors and not the actual movie. I thought it was really conventional. But I really liked watching Chalamet. I liked all the main actors I thought were excellent. I didn't know Chalamet had that in him. Really proud of him. I felt like I felt a little. Felt a little. I don't know.
- [75:59]
Sean Fennessy
Our little baby's all growns up.
- [76:01]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [76:01]
Sean Fennessy
You know he did it. You know, the world's number one Bill Simmons fan is now the world's number one young movie star. Yeah, I fully agree. I agree with everything that you said in your conversation with Chris. I feel the same way about the movie. I think the movie is, you know, James Mangold doesn't make, like, bad, boring movies. You know, his movies are always, like, rock solid, good watches. This is by far, far from his best movie, in my opinion. I think it is pretty conventional. There's not a lot of story. I think the movie makes a good choice by not trying to explain who and what Bob Dylan is, that he's more like this spirit that moved through this period of history. And Chalamet embodies that spirit really well. And obviously his, like, singing and guitar playing is. It's amazing. I mean, it's just amazing.
- [76:47]
Bill Simmons
My expectations were C plus is a win. And it was in the.
- [76:52]
Sean Fennessy
It was in the A range, 100%. I really think he could win. I really think people's heads have been turned. I think a lot of people had the kind of lowered expectations that you were talking about. I know I sure did. I was terrified to watch this movie as a psychotic Bob Dylan fan. I think they, for the most part, got the idea of Bob right. I wish the movie tried to explore a little bit more of the why instead of just showing you stuff happening. But.
- [77:18]
Bill Simmons
A friend of mine had a really good point that I was hanging out with on New Year's Eve about the movie, that so much of the movie hinges on the person that's watching it understanding the before and after of Dylan, which they try to do in the movie. And they're just kind of showing you. But if you're under 35, you don't get it. And you don't understand it because you don't know the backstory of it. That it was like music was like this, and then it became like this. And it wasn't just Dylan, it was the Rolling Stones. It was a lot of different art, the Beatles, all these different artists who went from basically black and white TV to color TV in music over the course of four years. And the movie shows us that, but it doesn't. And it's trying to tell us that. But I don't know if it ever gets the message across for somebody like my daughter who doesn't know anything about the 60s. You know what I mean?
- [78:04]
Sean Fennessy
Yeah, yeah, I do. And, I mean, I think the movie is not really pitched at her. I think there's like a little bit of a. Kind of a bait and switch here because Chalamet is the star. So, of course, in theory, it's a movie that should appeal to young people, but it's a movie for boomers and for older people. You know, it's people. Like, I was texting with Juliet yesterday And she said that her parents were profoundly affected by the movie. And because they grew up, you know, admiring Bob and listening to folk music and that being a meaningful part of their lives. And I mean, how could it not be? You know, like, if my mom would have loved this movie, you know, she would have just felt so close to it. And she would have loved the idea of like a young movie star getting Bob Dylan the way that Chalamet clearly does. Like, if you listen to his press interviews, he knows everything about Dylan. He's read every book, he knows every bootleg recording. Like, he is encyclopedic about it, which is pretty cool. But you can't expect a 19 year old to have that same level of information. Hopefully what it will do is it will put people on a path to finding out about some of this stuff. And the way the culture shifted over that time that you're describing.
- [79:09]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, I felt differently. I kind of felt like I knew everything in the movie, so I was learning basically nothing. So I was just concentrated on the actors. Right. There are no surprises at all if you knew. I don't know. I mean, you're a bigger Dylan fan than I am. Was there one you were like, oh, my God, I didn't realize they. There was nothing like that.
- [79:28]
Sean Fennessy
No. And I said this before the movie even came out that, you know, for me personally, that's just not the most interesting period of time in Dylan's life. It's also a period of time that is extremely chronicled. Like, there are documentaries, multiple documentaries about this period of his life. There is lots of contemporaneous footage of him talking during that period. But once you get into like 66 through 1980, there's not nearly as much. I mean, he's doing way less press. He disappears for years at a time. He shifts his musical style so dramatically. So that stuff, all that is like, that's discoverable territory where you could interpret what was happening. What we see in 62 through 65, that's legendary American music history. So I felt the same way. I just didn't feel like I was seeing anything new. But maybe that's not the movie's job. Maybe the movie's job is just to represent that period in time. And they did the best they could.
- [80:23]
Bill Simmons
It was missing that one, like Walk the Line always had Johnny Cash, volatile guy, this relationship with his wife. It had this hook that I was like, I kind of want to know more about this. I always wondered what this was. And it dove into it. And this didn't really have the Joan Baez relationship. But I didn't feel like. Just wasn't as. Wasn't as riveting.
- [80:42]
Sean Fennessy
Yeah, I mean you're describing like the dramatic tension. You know, like Walk the Line has dramatic tension. There's no dramatic tension in the Bob Dylan movie. It's like he came along, he blew people's minds. He was the first meaningful folk artist who was performing all original songs. People are literally in the audience staring with their mouth open at a 23 year old kid explaining God and the universe and the way we relate to each other. And they were breathless, taken away, falling in love with him. Everyone all fell in love with him at the same time. And then he betrayed them by leaving their movement. That's the whole movie. So there is no dramatic tension in that story. It doesn't mean it's not fun to watch. It is fun to watch two movies.
- [81:19]
Bill Simmons
That out kicked their coverage for me. Okay, we haven't talked about this. I really liked Heretic. I thought it was one of the best horror movies in a while. And the only reason I just was late seeing it, my daughter had seen it in the theater and she's like, you've got to see this movie. I knew nothing about it. I intentionally read nothing. And I thought it was one of the best horror movies of the last 10 years. And I don't even know if you'd call it a horror movie. Whatever. Whatever genre that is. I thought it was really cool, really well written. I liked the actors, thought Hugh Grant was great. It made me think about shit. I just thought it was really good. Wouldn't be shocking if that was one of the ten best films, right?
- [82:02]
Sean Fennessy
I think it's on the outside, but maybe not as far on the outside as I would have thought three months ago. Hugh Grant is nominated for a Golden Globe, which is happening on Sunday. In like 12 years of knowing you.
- [82:15]
Bill Simmons
Golden Globe to me is like rotten tomatoes for you. When I bring up rewatchables, I'm like.
- [82:21]
Sean Fennessy
At 80, it's a little bit more respectable than it was five years ago. They're owned by different people, they have different voters. But you're right, it's not that big of a deal. So in 12 years, I don't know if you and I have ever had a Hugh Grant conversation. Where do you stand on Hugh Grant?
- [82:37]
Bill Simmons
Fascinating career for three plus decades now. Go back to early 90s with him and there's been a lot of iterations from him. And now he's kind of into this old creepy English guy version of Hugh Grant, which I'm all in for.
- [82:50]
Sean Fennessy
He's playing a lot of dirtbags and villains, which has been very fun.
- [82:53]
Bill Simmons
Dirtbag Hugh Grant is great. So you like Tarot Tick too, or did I like it more than you?
- [82:58]
Sean Fennessy
Love the first two thirds. Love the thriller man traps two women in his house stuff. It gets a little funky at the end for me when it kind of twists on the story. I thought some of it was interesting and some of it I didn't love as much. But I love the writing and the, like. It was very like, post Tarantino, like, guy explains all his theories to people stuff that I really. I always think is fun. And Hugh Grant is so game. And you know, him making the connections between like, the Hollies and Radiohead and Lana Del Rey and the board game stuff, I thought all that was so fun. So, yeah, I dug it. And I really like those two young actresses. Sophie Thatcher, who's on Yellowjackets. Chloe east, who is the girlfriend in the Fabelmans. Both of whom I think could be big stars someday.
- [83:39]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, but that also fits into 2024, where it was like this movie I really like, but it was missing something. I agree with you. The last 20 minutes, it's like, ah, you landed the plane. But I kind of hit my head on the ceiling of the plane as you were landing it. But we made it. Yeah, but I liked it. I was really glad I watched it.
- [83:56]
Sean Fennessy
It was fun. Yeah, I liked the guys who made it too. I just didn't.
- [84:00]
Bill Simmons
Wasn't crazy about the ending and nickel boys, I thought. And I'd heard some people mention it, but I just thought it was so inventive how they. The filmmaking was just. It was just a really cool movie. It was really unusual and unique and it really stood out to me.
- [84:16]
Sean Fennessy
Did you find you watched it at home?
- [84:18]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, which was probably a mistake. I wish I had seen it in the theater.
- [84:21]
Sean Fennessy
Did you find it challenging to lock into it? Cause, like, I saw it at a film festival and like, people were walking out, you know. Cause it is really unusual the way that it's done. It's done in this first person perspectival way where, like, you are the character. Essentially. It was cool through the whole film. I never really seen it.
- [84:38]
Bill Simmons
I could see in a movie theater that it would make you want. Almost want to throw up. So maybe it was better. I saw it at home.
- [84:44]
Sean Fennessy
It was disorienting at first, for sure. I really, really like it. It's one of my favorite movies of the year. I think the Guy who made it, who played point guard at Georgetown, by the way, Romel Ross, who's basketball player, who's a great guy, super smart guy. But it's just a. There's nothing like it. There's nothing like that movie. It's really deep, has a lot to say and it's just really, really interesting the way that they made it. So I'm stoked that you like that.
- [85:05]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. Because it made. It made me think that guy, maybe it's his next movie or two movies from now will have an awesome movie. You know what I mean?
- [85:14]
Sean Fennessy
Yeah.
- [85:14]
Bill Simmons
Like, I mean all the ingredients were there for I want to see what this guy does next.
- [85:19]
Sean Fennessy
It's funny that you say that though, because I had him on the show in December and he was like, I'm not really a director. He's like, I'm a college professor and if I want to make another movie, cool. If not. No. His previous movie was a documentary that was nominated for an Oscar. But he kind of. I wouldn't say he stumbled into it, but he's not strategic in the way that all these directors I interview, they're always like, and then my next movie is going to be like a sci fi epic. He's not like that. He's just like, whatever. If a book comes along, I think he did the movie because the Brad Pitt's production company called him and they were like, we liked your documentary. Do you have any thoughts on this novel by Colson Whitehead? And that's why he made it.
- [85:55]
Bill Simmons
Right. So two that didn't get there for me were the Substance and Baby Girl. But I was glad I saw both.
- [86:02]
Sean Fennessy
Okay.
- [86:04]
Bill Simmons
I've never want to watch either again. Baby Girl. I have people in my life like my mother who absolutely hated it. And usually it's the kind of movie she likes because my mother's weird but really good performances at the top of it. Movies that were trying to say stuff and took swings and I know you've talked about both, but I appreciated the swing. It just didn't the movie. Neither movie worked for me.
- [86:29]
Sean Fennessy
The substance is exciting for me as a fan of crazy horror, as a fan of body horror and this explosive kind of stuff that is almost never built around female characters. There's like a female writer, director. The whole movie is about the female perspective, what the expectations are of women in our society, et cetera, et cetera. So seeing that and then watching her basically go all the way with it make a 2 hour and 20 minute movie that's just like disgusting and explosively Primal. Just pus and gore and blood dripping from Demi Moore. It's really gross. And the fact that that movie is, like, an Oscar contender is so wild to me. I really liked it as just like an act of here's everything. It's so maximalist.
- [87:17]
Bill Simmons
Admirable effort.
- [87:19]
Sean Fennessy
Yeah, it's a. I don't know if.
- [87:21]
Bill Simmons
It needed to be 2 hours, 20 minutes long. And I did not enjoy watching the last 30 minutes, which I think was the point of the movie.
- [87:27]
Sean Fennessy
You're not. Right.
- [87:28]
Bill Simmons
You're not supposed to Enjoy the last 30 minutes.
- [87:29]
Sean Fennessy
Exactly.
- [87:30]
Joe House
Right.
- [87:30]
Sean Fennessy
It is durational. It's like, sit through this and fucking watch what we do to women. That's what the end of the movie is and what women do themselves because of how they feel about the expectations that they have. Baby Girl, I think, is a little less successful than the substance. I'm so interested in your mom not being into it because it's obviously sort of an update on the erotic thriller. But I would.
- [87:53]
Bill Simmons
Well, and that was her take. She was like, the 80s movies did this so much better. This is trying too hard. I'm not buying it. I don't understand why Nicole Kidman wanted to do a movie like she. It just. It set her off.
- [88:07]
Sean Fennessy
I would argue that it's like, a little bit more of a black comedy than that. That it's almost like using the erotic thriller to springboard to make, like, a comedy of manners. And that's meant to be received a little bit more humorously. Like, everything Harris Dickinson is doing to Nicole Kidman in the movie is very funny to me. You know, like the glass of milk and ordering the glass of milk. I don't want to spoil the movie for anybody who hasn't seen it, but there's a couple of things in there that I was laughing in the theater and, like, not a lot of. And I was like, I think they went in expecting nine and a half weeks or expecting disclosure.
- [88:38]
Bill Simmons
So maybe that was a marketing thing.
- [88:41]
Sean Fennessy
I think they wanted to push it as a sexy movie. And it is kind of a sexy movie, but it's very. I don't know, it's very humorous. I have interviewed the director of that movie a couple times now, and she's super funny and very, like, she's an actress, and she's very outgoing and charismatic and goofy. And so when you meet her, you're like, this is not supposed to be like some Adrian lyne movie from 1989. That's not her energy at all. But your mom has got some of the goat Taste. So I'm not going to challenge her.
- [89:10]
Bill Simmons
Nosferatu. As I told you, I'm not a gothic Dracula vampire guy. I'm just not. I'm not the audience for that movie. Some people in my life really liked it. Some other people are like, eh, nephew.
- [89:23]
Sean Fennessy
Popped on and he was like. He loved it.
- [89:25]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. That's been Dracula for my entire life though. Or vampires or whatever version of this. I just. For me personally, I'm not a fan.
- [89:34]
Sean Fennessy
Break it down for me. Why do you not like.
- [89:37]
Bill Simmons
Never liked any of them. I didn't even like the Coppola one.
- [89:39]
Sean Fennessy
But is it about something about the blood sucking, the fangs, the Eastern European thing? What is it that you're turned off?
- [89:46]
Bill Simmons
It just doesn't work for me. I can't defend it. I can't explain it. I've just even since I was a. The last one I liked was they used to do the creature feature or whatever. The double features, the Christopher Lee movies they would show all the time on Channel 56 in Massachusetts.
- [90:02]
Sean Fennessy
The Hammer Horror.
- [90:03]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. And it was always like the Dracula ones or those movies from the 50s. I don't know. I just could never get there with any of them. I always was more like. For horror, I was always more of the. I want to be able to relate to this in some way. I can't relate to going to some weird dark mansion in the middle of nowhere and trying to figure out. It doesn't work for me. But other people love it.
- [90:28]
Sean Fennessy
Can I give you an opening to suggest Nosferatu for you? Nosferatu is a movie about real estate. The whole movie is about.
- [90:38]
Bill Simmons
I did notice there was a Redfin element to it.
- [90:40]
Sean Fennessy
There is 100%. A redfin element account summons a real estate agent to his castle. Cause he wants to buy, you know, a little hacienda, a little pied a terre in Germany. And that's the plot engine of the movie. Guy wants to come to a German town.
- [90:57]
Bill Simmons
So selling Sunset, Dark Germany.
- [91:00]
Sean Fennessy
Absolutely. Selling Sunset with syphilitic metaphors about sex and blood.
- [91:06]
Bill Simmons
I don't. It might have been better for me in the theater being trapped to it. Like being trapped to the screen versus. I saw it at home. I'm sure that was a piece of it. But I was. I mean my wife falling asleep with a half hour to go was like minus 1000 on FanDuel. And then that happened. But what's weird is my daughter didn't like it, but my daughter's boyfriend loved it and saw it in the theater twice. I just think and nephew Kyle loved it. Some people, this is a type of genre they love.
- [91:36]
Sean Fennessy
Yeah, I mean, it's literally a 100-year-old thing. I mean, the original Nosferatu was in 1922, and it's a story that never expires. People just love vampires. They love vampire stories. I like vampire stories. I've probably seen hundreds of vampire movies at this point in my life. This one, you know, Robert Eggers is the director. He's made four movies now. All of his movies have the same kind of thing where there's, like, attention to period detail. The lighting and direction is so specific and focused and unique. And his. His level of craftsmanship is basically unmatched in genre filmmaking.
- [92:06]
Bill Simmons
So that. And that was the fun part to watch. Like, it's an exceptionally well done movie.
- [92:11]
Sean Fennessy
Yeah, but if you don't like those stories, you don't like those stories. You know, like vampires.
- [92:15]
Bill Simmons
I've never. I don't even know if there's a vampire movie. I didn't even really like Buffy the Vampire Slayer and all that stuff. I just never got it. You know, maybe I'm more of a werewolf guy. Is that possible?
- [92:27]
Sean Fennessy
Well, the Wolfman is coming to theaters in January starring Christopher Abbott and Julia Garner. It's a Blumhouse movie.
- [92:37]
Bill Simmons
The Brutalist I've not seen yet. It's 200 minutes.
- [92:41]
Sean Fennessy
You. You sent a very attacking text message to me over the weekend. What did you say?
- [92:44]
Bill Simmons
What was that? I said I might. I said I might not. I might not have the 200 minutes until after the playoffs. It might have to be like two weeks before the Oscars situation. So 200 minutes is. I could take a train from Back Bay station in Boston to New York and the Brutalist wouldn't be over. As I'm getting into New York, maybe.
- [93:10]
Sean Fennessy
You should watch it on the train ride on your iPad.
- [93:13]
Bill Simmons
Just stuck on the Accela watching Brutalist.
- [93:16]
Sean Fennessy
I mean, the length of it seems.
- [93:18]
Bill Simmons
Like it's a movie for you. It seems like it's a movie for the die hard movie nerds. And I get it.
- [93:25]
Sean Fennessy
What's the runtime of The Godfather, Bill?
- [93:29]
Bill Simmons
Three hours.
- [93:29]
Sean Fennessy
It's 2 hours and 55 minutes.
- [93:32]
Bill Simmons
Okay, so 175 minutes.
- [93:34]
Sean Fennessy
So you're tacking on.
- [93:35]
Bill Simmons
You're going to compare the list to the Godfather?
- [93:39]
Sean Fennessy
Well, I'm only comparing it because other people have been comparing it because it's meant to be an American epic, the same way that the Godfather is, with big gestures and breathtaking performances and beautiful craft and a movie full of ideas. That is also extremely entertaining. I don't. You know, it's not as good as the Godfather. I'm not suggesting.
- [93:57]
Bill Simmons
Have you seen it twice?
- [93:58]
Sean Fennessy
I've seen it twice, and I'm seeing it a third time on the big screen next week. I really like this movie. I think it's not perfect. No movie is perfect. But I think that there's, like, the conversation around, like, how long it is and whether or not it's only for film nerds is like, I don't know, man. You like Apocalypse Now. You like the Godfather?
- [94:18]
Bill Simmons
I really do.
- [94:19]
Sean Fennessy
You like great, grand, epic, visionary movies. You like There Will Be Blood. Like, it's in the same tradition. So what's the problem? Like, what's the issue? You'll watch nine hours of a horrendous Netflix show.
- [94:33]
Bill Simmons
I'll watch 10 straight hours of NFL on Sunday and watch some of the worst quarterbacks we've had this decade.
- [94:39]
Sean Fennessy
That's right. I've watched. How many hours of Aaron Rodgers have I watched in 2024, for fuck's sake? I can sit through three and a half hours of the brutal.
- [94:47]
Bill Simmons
It seems like it's a Can't miss her. Well, there's been some Roma and there's been some over the last 10 years. I'm just like. I just. I'm tapping out. I just don't care.
- [94:59]
Sean Fennessy
Okay, here's the case I'll make. I think the second half of the movie has been much more controversial than the first. The movie's bifurcated. There's an intermission, a literal intermission, 15 minutes in the middle. The first half is just here's the Cell. It's a classic story of the American rise. An immigrant comes to the country, and they try to make a better life for themselves. In this case, it's someone coming after surviving the Holocaust from Hungary. And he's an architect and an artist, but he has to start at the bottom, and he has to build himself up, and he has to have opportunities come up.
- [95:30]
Bill Simmons
He's blogging.
- [95:31]
Sean Fennessy
So he blogs. He blogs for Hoopsite, and he does rumors, and he manifests trades. And the movie is just like. The first 90 minutes of the movie is just, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up. And it's incredibly exciting.
- [95:46]
Bill Simmons
I know.
- [95:47]
Joe House
That's.
- [95:47]
Sean Fennessy
The second half is, you know, it's a roller coaster. Roller coasters are fucking fun. The Brutalist is. Is it pretentious art film? Yes. Is it also an incredibly fun movie with, like, big, bold performances? Are you a guy, Pierce?
- [96:00]
Bill Simmons
Guy for A long time. Never understood why Hollywood stopped biting.
- [96:05]
Sean Fennessy
He's incredible in this movie. Very funny. Ridiculous. Over the top. He's a very familiar character. I think if you can carve out the time.
- [96:15]
Bill Simmons
I just got to clear out. Nobody in the house. I just got to clear out. Focus. Put my phone in another room.
- [96:21]
Sean Fennessy
Yeah, just drop it. Just one room. Without Pistons, Hornets. You know, you don't have to watch that game tonight. Just turn yourself over to the Brutalist and maybe you'll learn something about yourself.
- [96:33]
Bill Simmons
Even Heretic. I had little Sixers Kings going on the bottom left TV keep me grounded. Brutalist. No basketball on any TVs that.
- [96:43]
Sean Fennessy
Honestly, that hurts my brain. The idea of running.
- [96:47]
Bill Simmons
I just wanted to see what was happening. It wasn't like, it was not pre.
- [96:52]
Sean Fennessy
Or post Mike Brown firing.
- [96:54]
Bill Simmons
No, this was last night.
- [96:56]
Sean Fennessy
Oh, last night. Okay, so you were like, I want to see who took over for Mike Brown. I don't even know.
- [97:01]
Bill Simmons
The great Doug Christie.
- [97:03]
Sean Fennessy
Oh, right.
- [97:04]
Bill Simmons
Former Basketball Wives star.
- [97:05]
Sean Fennessy
Right. Was Jackie there? Was she in the front row?
- [97:07]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, probably. Probably doing little finger points on him. So who wins best film right now? I mean, the odds really aren't out yet. Until we get to final 10, it seems like it's wide open.
- [97:16]
Sean Fennessy
You know, Amanda came back to the show today.
- [97:18]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, congrats, Amanda. Welcome back.
- [97:20]
Sean Fennessy
Yeah, she's back. And she was like, I think it's wicked. And the wicked thing is happening. And if that happens, I might need to go to Hawaii for a few months. I might need to bail for a while.
- [97:34]
Bill Simmons
Four minutes.
- [97:36]
Sean Fennessy
That's how far you made it.
- [97:37]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, it's not for me.
- [97:40]
Sean Fennessy
I mean, that was what she said too. She was like, it's not for me. I mean, I'm in the business.
- [97:43]
Bill Simmons
If I had a four year old daughter or if I was you and Tate, I would have gone, I would have sat through it. But it's not. I'm out.
- [97:52]
Sean Fennessy
My daughter liked it, didn't love it.
- [97:55]
Bill Simmons
There's two kinds of movie, people. There's the kind like you or the movie where you have to see literally everything, right? Then there's the pick and choose. Die hard movie fans. And I've hit the pick and choose part of my life at this point. And it's like, I'm just not gonna. I'm not gonna see everything anymore. I'm gonna. And if there's a couple people in my life who are really, really pushing a movie that I trust, or I'm like, oh, they seem really all right, fine. But for the most part, I Don't feel. There's also way more movies out than there's ever been. And in the old days, there was always, like, you kind of knew, oh, this is an awards movie. This is a big popcorn movie. This is a movie trying to get a lot of people. Now there's just a lot of movies coming out where I don't even know what the goal was, the goal of the movie to make money. Like, who greenlit this? It was the goal to try to make this in under 3 million. It feels like we have more of those than ever before. And it's really hard to tell which are the essential ones to watch.
- [98:55]
Sean Fennessy
It's a great question. I've thought about it, too. I was just watching an interview between Conan O'Brien and Billy Crystal, and Billy Crystal was talking about his experience hosting the Academy Awards, and Conan was like, you had it easy, man. There were like, 38 movies, and everyone had seen all of them. And now there's like 300 releases just in America every year, plus all the streaming shit.
- [99:18]
Bill Simmons
Then you start adding in, like, the carry ons and all those kind of movies, and it's just. I just feel like there's more choices than we've ever had before. And weirdly, the TV's gotten worse.
- [99:29]
Sean Fennessy
Yeah. I'm curious to see if TV shows are better next year. I've never watched as little TV as I watched in 2024. This is the fewest, I mean, since I was five years old, probably. But, yeah, I don't know. The movie stuff is hard. It's obviously making me crazy because I feel like I have to watch everything, and that's not healthy. It's like, it doesn't make sense to try to watch 300 new movies a year. Every year. I'm going to fucking burn out.
- [99:51]
Bill Simmons
Well, and they're also getting longer. That's the other piece. It's like when we do rewatchables, and Craig's like, whoa, it's an hour 34. He's so excited. All these movies now feel like they have to be gigantic, but I feel like the creativity is still there. I think there's more choices than ever for what, you know, what you like. I still feel like there's. We have a nice generation of younger actors now that we were really. You came on here a couple years ago, we were really worried about the next generation. And now I feel like there's so many, like, under 35, under 40 actors that I really believe in now.
- [100:30]
Sean Fennessy
It's a great time. I mean, just look at Dune Part 2. You know, it's like, it's Chalamet, Florence Pugh, Zendaya Austin Butler. Like, we're good.
- [100:38]
Bill Simmons
We got even that Florence Pugh, Andrew Garfield movie that my wife and daughter loved. Like, I'm glad people are making those movies still. It's like, here's our audience. It's cancer and cooking, and this lady's gonna die in the end.
- [100:51]
Sean Fennessy
That was the original title.
- [100:52]
Bill Simmons
Moms and daughters are gonna watch this together.
- [100:54]
Sean Fennessy
Yeah, I like that movie. Cause it felt like 1996. It's just a really good 1996 drama. Like, weepy and. Yeah, I mean, look, you have to work harder than you used to have to work. It used to just be like, buy Entertainment Weekly. They'll tell you everything you need to see. Anything beyond that, You're a real film fan. You're a real cinephile now. I don't know. I mean, there's movies I haven't seen that came out this year, that came out last year. And, like, in theory, I should know. I should have seen everything. I just impossible to make the time and to recommend all the right stuff. So it's challenging, But I think 2025 is going to be a good culture year. I feel pretty, pretty, pretty strong.
- [101:29]
Bill Simmons
Well, we know the TV's going to get better, and hopefully there's some good movie stuff, too. All right. You can listen to fantasy and the big picture. You can hear him on the rewatchables every so often. Congrats on the Knicks. Congrats on not having Aaron Rodgers in your life anymore. After this weekend, probably.
- [101:43]
Sean Fennessy
We'll see. What if they bring him back?
- [101:46]
Bill Simmons
I can't imagine. I said to you, I texted you that Garrett Wilson, the move needs to be. He just needs to go off on Aaron Rodgers, and just the jets fan base will be like, finally, our savior has spoken.
- [101:59]
Sean Fennessy
Let him just say the words him or me out loud into a microphone. I would love.
- [102:02]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, that sounds great. All right. Happy New Year, Sean.
- [102:06]
Sean Fennessy
Thanks, Bill.
- [102:11]
Bill Simmons
All right, my dad is here. We're taping this 12:30 Pacific time on Thursday. We're three days away from Bill's Patriots, waiting to see if the Patriots are going to do the right thing and actually not intentionally lose the game, but maybe, maybe structure things a certain way so that they don't get a win. What's the mood like in Boston with this Patriots team as we head into week 18?
- [102:37]
Dad
Well, people I've talked to this week are furious that Mayo is thinking of even starting May. I mean, he almost had two Concussions in two games now. And he led us to believe in a press conference over the weekend that he was going to start the other rookie and give him a shot. And now, all of a sudden, they interviewed him last night, and it's typical of what he's done all year.
- [103:03]
Bill Simmons
Flip flops.
- [103:05]
Dad
It seems like he changes his mind or listens to different people. And now he says, well, May's healthy. We want to give him a chance. Nobody wants to give him a chance.
- [103:14]
Bill Simmons
We want to shut him down, right? Yeah. There's two reasons you want to shut them down. One, he gives us the best chance to win. They don't want to win because of all these extra assets you'd get with the pick. The other thing is he's getting the crap kicked out of him. And at this point, I'm just happy. Like that hit he took in the Chargers game. I'm just happy to put him on the shelf. Gonzalez, same thing. Get him out of there. Let's just get out of the season and then kind of figure out what we have with the team instead. Like. Like to win this game and to lose out on all the extra assets you would get from a trade down. To me, it almost looks like, organizationally, you have to look at it and go, who's running the team? Does the coach think he's going to be there? Does the GM think he's going to be there? What do the owners want out of this? And it's a recurring theme that we've had for a year. It doesn't seem like anybody is really in charge.
- [104:04]
Dad
It's ludicrous. It's apparent, at least that's the scuttlebutt, if you listen to talk radio here, that Mayo thinks if he wins this last game, he shows ownership, that he's got the team back on track. Meanwhile, if I'm ownership, I'm surprised they haven't suggested to him very strongly that shut May down. Gonzalez didn't practice all week. He had a concussion the last game. Shut him down. He's probably shut down anyway and play all the reserves.
- [104:36]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. Let's see what we got with Joe Milton.
- [104:38]
Dad
Yeah, I'd love to watch Joe Milton, actually. They say he's got a rocket of an arm. I'd love to see him out there now. If he played too well, I'd be upset. But, you know, we're in line for that number one draft pick.
- [104:53]
Bill Simmons
We've had.
- [104:54]
Dad
We've had a terrible season. Don't let the coach think that he can save his job by Winning a meaningless game.
- [105:01]
Bill Simmons
But this is what happens when the coach's motivations and the GM's motivations aren't aligned with the owner's motivations. Right. If the coach knows he's going to be here next year, you're totally fine throwing the game away because you know the team. It's the best thing you can do for the team. If you feel like you're on thin ice, you're thinking about it differently. But the guy who's really on thin ice is Bob Kraft, who I think over the last year, it's been one of the biggest turns. I think of a fan base feeling about somebody that belonged to the fan base, where you would go to these Celtic games every time they showed Kraft, if he was in the stands, standing ovation or huge cheers. And this year was not the case. Right.
- [105:43]
Dad
Well, this year, I've only seen him at one game, and he wasn't even recognized on the Jumbotron. He was sitting next to the owner, so I knew he was there, but they didn't recognize him. And the same is true. When Belichick used to come to the games, he'd get a standing ovation. He hasn't come this year.
- [106:01]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [106:02]
Dad
Which I guess makes sense. He's probably.
- [106:04]
Bill Simmons
Well, he's got eight jobs.
- [106:06]
Dad
Yeah, he's got a lot of jobs elsewhere, and he has to satisfy his young girlfriend. But, you know, the Kraft thing is interesting. I bet there's a piece of Bob Kraft that doesn't want to finish as the number one worst team in the league. There's an ego thing maybe for the owner, too. I mean, you think so?
- [106:26]
Bill Simmons
I hope you're. I hope you're not right.
- [106:28]
Dad
I hope I'm not right. But I mean, to have the worst team in the league, that. That takes an ego hit for the owner of the team, too.
- [106:38]
Bill Simmons
Well, I remember when we were talking about Missoula after that first year and whether they should bring him back or not, and we were really concerned about a bunch of stuff that we saw during this season from him.
- [106:50]
Joe House
But we.
- [106:51]
Bill Simmons
We were always. We were always factoring in. This was about as unfair of a situation as somebody could possibly be in. He gets the job right before the year, he loses. You know, he's the number four assistant. He loses other assistants that were on the team during the year. He's young. He's friends with some of the guys on the team. Everything that there was the Grant Williams, Marcus smart pieces. There was a case like, hey, they give him the off season. They give him a Better bench of people. They made the Graham Williams, Marcus. Smart trades. Let's see what he's got. And he's gotten better as it's going on. I don't know what the case is with Mayo, where I agree.
- [107:30]
Dad
It's a good comparison because remember that. That Celtic team still achieved pretty highly.
- [107:37]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. That team won a lot of games and lost game seven in the Eastern finals. So it wasn't like he was a dumpster fire.
- [107:43]
Dad
No, I'm not defending Missoula. I think he has learned a lot over the two years now.
- [107:49]
Bill Simmons
Three years you promoted him. He's first row Joe for you.
- [107:51]
Dad
Now he's just Joe Mazzulla, the coach.
- [107:53]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. We like Joe Mazzulla.
- [107:55]
Dad
Mayo is a lot. He's a different case.
- [107:57]
Bill Simmons
His.
- [107:58]
Dad
His press conferences or even when he gets interviewed by a journalist. He's all over the place. I don't think he really has an idea what he has in mind for this team.
- [108:11]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [108:11]
Dad
And even. Even as evidence this whole week. Is he going to play May? Is he not going to play May? Does he want to win this game? Well, he got interviewed the other day, said, you know, he wants to win. He's not interested in draft placement. The fans are.
- [108:29]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [108:29]
Dad
I mean, we are.
- [108:32]
Bill Simmons
Well, it's such a dramatic difference.
- [108:34]
Dad
Yeah.
- [108:35]
Bill Simmons
In assets, you know, And I'm not a huge tanking guy. And I get why it's. I think sometimes it could be really cancerous if that just becomes a strategy when you're in the situation they're in here where the quarterback's banged up and it just makes no sense. I don't know why they wouldn't want the number one pick.
- [108:53]
Dad
Yeah. Put the draft pick aside. I don't want May to get hurt. We might have the worst offensive line in the league.
- [109:01]
Bill Simmons
It's certainly the worst we've ever had since you and I have rooted for that.
- [109:04]
Dad
I can remember.
- [109:05]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [109:05]
Dad
The Freddie, the worst for the Patriot team. I don't trust that he won't get hurt with this offensive line unable to protect him. He shouldn't be out there now. I guess that begs the question. Any quarterback to put out there is vulnerable, but you can't put out the franchise quarterback.
- [109:24]
Bill Simmons
Well, especially when he's. He's a little bit reckless, which is a great quality. Unless like that. You know, what he did last week in the Chargers game was. Was pretty reckless. Like he was going out of bounds. He spun back in, ends up taking this huge hit. It's the first drive of the game. Yeah. It's weird. I feel bad for Mayo because he seems like a nice guy, and I just think sometimes it's the wrong job. He was never. I don't know if he was ever actually the defensive coordinator. I don't. I think he was, you know, part of the team. Belichick's obviously running so much of it. Right. But he's just seemed overmatched this whole year. The press conferences, even though they don't. They don't matter that much, but they kind of do, too, because they're the connection and the fan base and the connection is seeming like you're stable and you have some sort of North Star that's guiding you. And even you know that the Ramondre Stevenson, he's not starting this week. We're starting Gibson. It's like, no, actually, reminder started, hey, what happened, coach? That was the coach's decision. It's like no other team does this where the guy just changes his mind. And he's had like five of those.
- [110:29]
Dad
Yeah, he probably has had more than five. But I can't say the fan base here has any trust in his ability to be a head coach. It's interesting. For the two years before Belichick left, Mayo was on tv, like a pregame show or after game show. He discussed the game and the defense, and he was very eloquent. Yeah, he knew his business. It's a lot different, though, stepping into the head coaching job. You and I talk a lot about assistant superintendents or assistant coaches, and sometimes you're meant to stay in the assistant role and do a great job.
- [111:12]
Bill Simmons
Right? To be the number two guy or the number three guy versus I think.
- [111:15]
Dad
He'S in over his head and he's overwhelmed. It just seems like he's overwhelmed.
- [111:21]
Bill Simmons
Well, the big thing for him, though, is that, I mean, every head coach has to have some sort of specialty, right? Like, sometimes there's like the culture coaches, and it's somebody like Harbaugh who's like, he's good at everything as a coach, but he's really about, like a culture and coaching different parts of the team. I think the best coaches have always been guys that do everything and have some sort of identity of that. But then there's other coaches who are like, well, at least I really know this. I'm really good at offense. I'm really good at defense. This way he was supposed to be this defensive guy. And the defense is abominable. I mean, it's basically the same guys. Gonzalez is back. They don't have bar. They basically flip Gonzalez for barmore. They lost Bentley this year, but for the most part, it's the same guys. The secondary is just a train wreck. And DVOA wise, I think they're the worst team in the league. They never seem like they know what they're doing, and that's where you get to the other side with all the penalties and all the stupid stuff. They just don't seem well coached. I don't see how anyone can watch them and be like, oh, well, they're doing this well. They're not doing anything well.
- [112:25]
Dad
It's possible Mayo would have been helped if he had picked the right defensive coordinator or picked a different offensive coordinator.
- [112:34]
Bill Simmons
Well, he's obviously the Van Pelt was the 12th pick.
- [112:38]
Dad
Others turned it down.
- [112:39]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [112:40]
Dad
The defensive coordinator that he picked was a line coach.
- [112:45]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. Who was that guy is not staying the Covey. He's not staying next year.
- [112:49]
Dad
No. But lots of teams have a philosophy you're bringing in. Actually, the Celtics did it this year and a little bit last year as well. Missoula got the opportunity to bring in his own coaches. Now, who did he bring in? He brought in veteran coaches.
- [113:04]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [113:05]
Dad
Brought in guys like Cassell who have been around the league a long time and can help him, you know, as he's learning over the two and a half years on the job. The Patriots didn't do any of that. You know, their offensive coordinator certainly has experience, but I've never seen that he's successful where he's been. So they brought in a guy who hasn't been successful from Cleveland and elsewhere.
- [113:30]
Bill Simmons
One thing he's good at is admitting that he hasn't done a good job. Like, I actually see, he seems like a nice guy, but it's like you're the same guy who's running bubble screens on third and 17 and, you know, we're going backwards more than we're going forwards on some of these drives. So the question for me is sometimes you can just miss with the coach. And this is. I. I tweeted out all the one and out coaches that have happened in the NFL. It happens. It seems like it's about once a year where somebody's like, ah, we just had. We just picked the wrong guy. Like Nathaniel Hackett on the Broncos. They were like, ah, this guy's kind of a disaster. We should probably get out of this one. And they fired him during the season. And the question for me with Mayo is how attached his craft to the decision. Because this was his guy. He basically was out and said, I decided five years ago this is My coach, he really believed in this guy as a person, human being. And by the way, he might be a great guy. I just haven't seen any evidence. He's a real head coach. And the problem is, you have Vrabel sitting there, who we know is a good coach, and every. That's who everybody in New England wants. And it's, you bring this guy because, you know, they talk about, oh, could we get T. Higgins? Like, I don't think they're going to get anybody if. If to the outside world, they look poorly coached and poorly run. Drake May is a great asset, but that's not enough to, like, lure people to come here.
- [114:49]
Dad
I wonder, though, if you're bringing up what's part of. Part of the problem. Craft hand pick Belichick's successor. It makes him look bad if the guy gets fired after one year.
- [115:02]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, but couldn't he extricate himself with it by being like, look, I love this guy. I really believe in him. My mistake was giving him a job that Maybe he wasn't 100% ready for yet because he didn't have enough experience as a coordinator. There's ways you can get out of that. Yeah.
- [115:18]
Dad
I'm not sure at Bob Kraft's age that that's the route he's going to take. He could make him vice president of the paper company. Just move him over to the.
- [115:27]
Bill Simmons
Maybe make him the gm.
- [115:29]
Dad
Just move them up. We could have co gms. Yeah.
- [115:34]
Bill Simmons
I mean, he wouldn't do a worse job as a GM that Elliot Wolf did.
- [115:38]
Dad
That's the whole other issue of the gm. You look at our draft from last April, it's horrendous. Now they had to take May. He fell in their lap.
- [115:51]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [115:52]
Dad
They couldn't not take May in the first round. You look at the picks after that. That's why I'm a little worried. Yeah. You know, even if we finish with the worst team in the league and we get this big package from the Giants or somebody, Oakland or Las Vegas. Excuse me. Are you confident that we're going to make good draft picks?
- [116:14]
Sean Fennessy
No, no.
- [116:15]
Bill Simmons
But. But that's the thing is at least last year compared to this year, now they have this asset. They have a franchise qb. They also hopefully will have the number one pick in the draft. They have Gonzalez, they have all this cap space. So if you're looking for him from the outside and you're somebody who actually knows your shit, that's a good job. Now, I don't know if it was a good job a year ago. What was the job? It's like, I hope Drake May's good. And that's really about all you're bringing to the table now. It's like, yeah, we have franchise qb. Like you can really like build something.
- [116:49]
Sean Fennessy
I just.
- [116:49]
Bill Simmons
Look, we've seen it happen too many times. Like Harbaugh goes into the Chargers. They probably had more assets than we have heading into the off season. But just the move from Brandon Staley to Harbaugh was worth five, six wins. And now they're in the playoffs and it feels like the Pats, I don't like. Do you see their schedule? They're playing the NFC south next year. They're playing all the last place teams. You think like, it wouldn't be that hard to turn this around.
- [117:16]
Dad
I, you know, that's a good point. For some reason, despite finishing with the. What were the third worst team last year, we had one of the toughest schedules in the league, it seems. I know now some of those teams didn't pan out as well as projected, but it does seem like we have an easier schedule next year. And you're right, teams turn around in the NFL, but they typically turn around because the whole administrative structure, coach, gm, whatever has been turned around.
- [117:46]
Bill Simmons
Well, Washington did it, right? Dan Quinn, they hired Adam Peters, they did all these super smart free agent signings of these kind of second tier dudes. They got Daniels, they got their quarterback and they, they immediately built a great team around him. Like for what the. A great team for what the ceiling was. Right. They're going to be a 10 win team. I don't know. Nobody saw that coming.
- [118:08]
Dad
But your home team, the charges, nobody expected. I mean, you expected with the coaching change.
- [118:17]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, because I thought Staley was that bad last year. Yeah. Okay. I just think you could kind of tell when an NFL coach doesn't have it at this point, you know. So anyway, we'll see what happens. Nerve wracking Week 18 Pats game though. It'd be unbelievable if they lo. If they somehow beat the Bills for no reason.
- [118:34]
Dad
Well, I mean, last year we won an inexplicable game that we shouldn't.
- [118:40]
Bill Simmons
That Broncos game.
- [118:41]
Dad
Yeah, and it cost us the same kind of draft.
- [118:44]
Bill Simmons
Kyle and I watched it together. I know we ended up with Drake, who might end up being the best guy out of all these guys though. So we're taping this for the Celtics. Little road trip here. Celtics are 24, 9. You've been to a bunch of the games. What's not going well with this season?
- [119:02]
Dad
What's Missing defense, defensive energy, defensive effort. It's inconsistent. It's like they try to turn it on usually in the fourth quarter. It's helped them at times to win games that look like they were going to lose, and then other times they just haven't been able to come back. The other thing I've noticed, and this is obvious, we're getting the best effort from every team that comes in here.
- [119:32]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, the Bullseye games.
- [119:33]
Dad
Yeah. I think we've lost six home games already. We only lost four last year. Some of them have been close. A couple of them have been crazy games that we weren't even in the game.
- [119:45]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [119:46]
Dad
And you know, I could say it's been injuries, but a lot of teams have had injuries this year. The Porzingis thing, you and I, when they traded for Porzingis, we like to trade with one caveat, his injury history. Yeah, he got through almost all of last year into the playoffs pretty healthy and now we're seeing little things happen. And then the other guy, Holiday, a terrific addition, great veteran on the team, but missing some games. And he's a good example of the three point shooting. I think he was 40 something percent last year. He's 34% this year. Poisonous. The same thing.
- [120:29]
Bill Simmons
And Hauser's down too.
- [120:30]
Dad
Houser's down too. I mean, the only guy who's really up is Pritchard. It's inconsistency and the defensive effort is not always there. And I don't know if it's lack of effort or they just think they can turn it on when they need to, or it's the injuries or a combination of all of that. And then on top of that, every team that comes in here wants to beat the champions. You can see it when Philly came in Christmas Day, that's the best game Philly played all year.
- [121:04]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, that was a Game seven for them. I went to the game, I saw in person, that Brooklyn game, when they still had all their guys and those guys were going all out and it was going to be the highlight of their year if they beat the Celtics in Boston.
- [121:16]
Dad
Yes. And we're seeing a lot of that.
- [121:18]
Bill Simmons
You know what's interesting about that, though, because we've seen this go the other way. After you win a title, where you win the title, and then the next year you're even better and more awesome. And you come in and now you have a chip on your shoulder in a good way. You're like, we're the champs and here's why. And I was leaning toward it. Being more of that kind of a season. But instead it's the, oh, we have an on off switch button. We're always going to be able to turn it on if we need it. Which I can't say I was really expecting because Tatum and Brown have been healthy this whole season. Usually when you have your two best guys that's going to push you a certain way, but it hasn't happened happen.
- [121:56]
Dad
Well, they did start off. I think they were 16 and three the first 19 games. But you've seen the month of December was a disaster. I think they were 7 and 6 or. Yeah, they were. And again a lot of them were home losses where I walked out of there saying how do we lose that game? Or how did that team beat us? Because the talent levels weren't equal. There's one thing though, that pretty consistent happening now. It's happened the whole month. Other teams are killing us in the paint and with Porzingis healthy, that wasn't happening. It's happening now because he's not out there. On top of the fact that I love Al Horford, but he's lost a step and his shooting, you just don't.
- [122:47]
Bill Simmons
Think he's playing too much.
- [122:50]
Dad
Well, he has to play so many more minutes. With Porzingis out, his three point shooting has been horrendous.
- [122:57]
Bill Simmons
You see my fear with that is they just were putting way more miles on him than they wanted to this season because of the Porzingis piece and cause Cornette got hurt and you know, it just. And I just wonder if they kind of rode put too many miles on the car ride for Al.
- [123:13]
Dad
I think it might have been the case. I mean he loves playing and the crowd loves him. I like him a lot. I just think that with Porzingis not out there, they don't seem to have any confidence in Tillman. So they're playing Keita and they're playing Cornet.
- [123:29]
Bill Simmons
Well, Keda gives them at least the rim protection. Yeah, Al's down to. He's shooting 42% from the field, 36% from three this year. But he's playing around the same minutes and playing more games than they probably, you know, we're hoping he's played 26 of the first 33 games.
- [123:47]
Dad
But he's playing different minutes because last year harder minutes. Starting he was coming off the bench.
- [123:53]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [123:53]
Dad
Playing against other team, second team now, now he's starting and he's not, he's not as effective. Obviously the stats show that as well.
- [124:04]
Bill Simmons
I will say if we go positive, I, I Think Tatum's been exceptional. I think this is as good as. Yeah, Brown. There's still like, there's a couple shot selection things with him sometimes, but he's always playing hard. I don't really love that little. He added this weird. I don't know if he was working on it all summer. That weird little turnaround at the foul line that he tries to do all the time now. I think it's gone in twice, but he played. Both of those guys are playing hard. But Tatum's been just awesome. I mean, he's 28, 10 and 6 every night. His three point shots back. He plays super hard on both ends. I don't feel like from an effort standpoint, you never see him mail it in. He really gives a shit.
- [124:49]
Dad
No, I agree. I think. And defensively he's played very well. Unfortunately though, there's a piece with Porzingis being out. Oftentimes you'll see Tatum trying to guard the center on the other team. And a good example was not the most recent game, but previous game when we played Toronto and portals the center for Toronto. I think he had 32 points against us. He hasn't had a game like that in his life. But we have no rim protection with Porzingis out.
- [125:25]
Bill Simmons
Porto always kind of kills us though. The other thing that changed, Derek White was awesome. The first five weeks I'm looking at it. I'm just looking up his stats quick. Yeah, all his stats were down in December and he seemed like he was banged up in a couple different ways. So you had Holiday who's been off and on. You have White, who definitely was not 100% as we left December. So that's why we're taping this before this little west coast trip they have where every game they have on the trip is hard. And last year I would have said they're going to rip through this trip, right? They're going to lay the smackdown. They'll go four and over three and one this year. I have no idea what to expect. You can tell me any scenario and I would believe it. You could tell me they're going to own four on the trip and I wouldn't be like shocked last year I would have been shocked again.
- [126:14]
Dad
As you said, these are Western Division teams. They're only going to see them once on the road. If I'm Minnesota, is that. That's who they're playing tonight?
- [126:25]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, well, they have. Yeah, they're playing teams. First of all, Minnesota was always a good matchup against that. Like they always like played really well against the Celtics. Right. Denver Jokic has always been awesome. So that's the last game and then in the middle it's Houston and okc. Houston's a bunch of fucking pit bulls. Like they're terrifying. And then OKC is the best team in the league.
- [126:51]
Dad
It's quite a four game road trip. You also have the Houston piece with.
- [126:56]
Bill Simmons
The coaches.
- [126:59]
Dad
Going into Houston. They're playing really well.
- [127:01]
Bill Simmons
But Sengun's a good example. What you were saying earlier where there's going to have to be stretches where Tatum actually has to guard Shingoon if they're, you know, I think the thing that they really lost this year so far and I'm not panicking by any means, but just last year with the lineups, they could go small, they could go big, they could basically do whatever they wanted each game. And they've just because they haven't had all the guys together, they're kind of stuck with lineups certain night and I think it becomes easier for teams and also teams know that they're going to shoot 50 threes a game and sometimes those threes aren't going in the same way, but.
- [127:35]
Dad
Well, we haven't talked about that. They're averaging over 50 threes a game compared to 42 a game last year.
- [127:42]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, some of that's Pritchard because he's playing more.
- [127:45]
Dad
I guess that's a good point.
- [127:47]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, but yeah, but yeah, so yeah, it's a work in progress. Not panicking. I think the only thing short term is the Knicks might pass them. Like the Knicks might win the division. The Knicks I think were plus 260 on FanDuel and they're a half game back.
- [128:02]
Dad
Half game back.
- [128:03]
Bill Simmons
And I don't think they're going to catch Cleveland as the 1 seed. Like that's just the fact that they're, I don't think they're going to have home court in round three or round four this year. And last year it really mattered.
- [128:13]
Dad
It did matter. But I don't think they're going to catch Cleveland. But again, it's January 2nd. Everybody knows it's, it's what's your health look like in April and May. And if they, if they're purposely keeping Porzingis out because he, he rolled the ankle of the, the leg that he got injured last year.
- [128:35]
Bill Simmons
It just seems like he's had the worst luck where it's like he's almost even odds to step on somebody else's foot at all times as a big guy.
- [128:44]
Dad
Maybe it does happen More frequently. But I'm okay if they hold him out until he's 100%. If he can ever be 100% again. I guess he can. They're not saying anything about him. Holiday is a different case. He got a shoulder impingement on a.
- [129:00]
Bill Simmons
Screen, and he's old and he's older.
- [129:03]
Dad
And he did say that it's never going to be 100%. I hate to hear, oh, God, a basketball player say that.
- [129:12]
Bill Simmons
How many of them?
- [129:13]
Dad
I want him to be healthy in April, I guess. And I think the Knicks are going to pass us. Our schedule looks terrible. Really hard.
- [129:22]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, it feels like a two or a three seed. I don't think they catch Cleveland. How many times has Wick Grossbeck been to a game this year? Is he still coming at the same frequency or no?
- [129:34]
Dad
Yeah, I'd say so.
- [129:35]
Bill Simmons
Okay. I'd say so, because that's another one. I think that was supposed to. I think that was all supposed to be settled right around now, but I think they have so many suitors, the process is taking longer and it's probably going to push to March now. I had always been told it was going to happen sooner than that, but I just think there's a lot of people kicking the tires on it.
- [129:56]
Dad
I mean, one of the articles in the Sunday paper said they hope to have all the bids in and some decisions made by the end of January.
- [130:05]
Bill Simmons
Yeah, I don't think that. I think it's going to be later than that. Before we go, I have to ask, because I always ask this to you at the end of the year or start next year. So who's the guy in Boston right now?
- [130:19]
Dad
The guy.
- [130:20]
Bill Simmons
Yeah. Who's the guy who's the most popular Boston athlete right now?
- [130:26]
Dad
It's probably May. It's probably May.
- [130:28]
Bill Simmons
So.
- [130:30]
Dad
I mean, I should be.
- [130:32]
Bill Simmons
No. I know everyone loves Tatum, but I don't think people understand how popular May is with the Patriots fans.
- [130:38]
Dad
I should be saying Tatum, but I really think it's May.
- [130:43]
Bill Simmons
What do you think it is? What do you think it is that. I know, but what do you think it is that he's resonating with the fans like this? Other than that, it's just so hard to get a franchise quarterback potentially.
- [130:55]
Dad
I think that's part of it. I think after having so many years of Brady, maybe we never thought we'd see a franchise quarterback again, that we'd be a team living with Brissette for the next 10 years. That's probably part of it. And I think the other thing is everybody sees his potential. You know, you watch other quarterbacks who have time because their offensive line gives them time and those quarterbacks play very differently and are much more successful. May has no time. He's working for his life every play. You can kind of envision his talent behind a good offensive line, having time and hitting receiver after with.
- [131:38]
Bill Simmons
With decent receivers too. That's the other thing is.
- [131:40]
Dad
Well, that's the other thing and that's.
- [131:41]
Bill Simmons
I've been trying to tell people watching what he's doing with the supporting cast he has with the play calling with the offensive line, it's kind of. I can't believe he's even upright. And there's been so many times when it just seems like three guys were going to sack him and he turns the corner or buys some time and yeah, it's. I. It certainly worked out way better than we ever in a million years could have expected. Right. Well, I mean, I will say though, Tatum is. I like coming back for a couple games this year. Tatum really is beloved. I mean, he's hit that. It feels like he's hit that final level of Boston athletes. So it's a good battle. I just think Drake's the new shiny toy. Tatum was like this as a rookie right when he came in and we were all like, oh my God, Tatum. Like we could all see it. And the main thing reminds me of.
- [132:26]
Dad
That Tatum is still my favorite athlete. That's not how you ask the question though. You asked what the buzzing.
- [132:32]
Bill Simmons
What's happening in the city?
- [132:33]
Dad
Yeah, I think people are so desperate to have a franchise quarterback.
- [132:40]
Bill Simmons
Well, it's just there's more football fans too, I think is the other piece.
- [132:44]
Dad
That's probably true too. Although you wouldn't know it by the half empty stadium that the Patriots play in right now.
- [132:51]
Bill Simmons
I mean, can you imagine ever going to any of those games?
- [132:54]
Dad
No.
- [132:54]
Bill Simmons
How depressing that would be what I grew up with for the most part.
- [133:01]
Dad
This last home game of the year Sunday, it's 40 mile an hour winds here. It's about 25 degrees or something. I don't know who's going to go to that game, particularly if Buffalo doesn't show up.
- [133:14]
Bill Simmons
Right.
- [133:15]
Dad
Are you going to go to root for your home team to win? It's an odd situation.
- [133:21]
Bill Simmons
Speaking on the most popular athlete thing, I think Jalen's climbing the ladder too. Like Jalen's 2024 was really incredible for what he meant to the city. The stuff he does off the court, the fact that he came through him and his relationship With Tatum together, like, to me, that's about as good of a top three as we've had in a while with the two Celtics in May.
- [133:45]
Dad
Yeah, I agree. Unfortunately, I can't think of a Red Sox that gets into the action. I can't think of a Bruin that gets into the action.
- [133:53]
Joe House
And.
- [133:56]
Dad
So you have the two teams to look at right now, Patriots and Celtics.
- [134:00]
Bill Simmons
The Red Sox have this really interesting farm system thing brewing. Like this Roman Anthony. I mean, we've had this happen before, but it really does seem like their farm system's.
- [134:11]
Dad
We have, but pretty crazy loaded. Somebody reminded me of the other day of when we made the trade for sale when we gave up our two prize prospects, Mankaeda and Copa, and look what happened. Neither one of them ever panned out. So you just don't. You don't know.
- [134:29]
Bill Simmons
With prospects, you never know.
- [134:30]
Dad
Yeah, but we can be helpful.
- [134:34]
Bill Simmons
We'll see what Drake may. So we're not going to see you in Foxborough on Sunday for Bill's pets?
- [134:40]
Dad
I think I have to go to church on Sunday. I'm not going to be able to make the Patriot camp.
- [134:44]
Bill Simmons
Are you excited to get your granddaughter back soon?
- [134:47]
Dad
Very excited, actually. We talked with her boyfriend today. He called Molly to wish her success on her retirement. That was awfully nice.
- [134:59]
Bill Simmons
Oh, that is really nice. What a kid that is. What a great kid. Can't believe he's a Heat fan, but a great kid.
- [135:05]
Dad
Well, one more thing on the Celtics. You know your daughter and her boyfriend went to the Miami Heat game against the Celtics.
- [135:13]
Bill Simmons
Yeah.
- [135:14]
Dad
The next time we went to the game, the guy, Mike, who sits in front of me, who's season ticket holder, he said that awful Miami fan was sitting behind me. That whole game was screaming and yelling everything Miami did. Fortunately, the Celtics won, but I think Tommy might have gone over the top of the game.
- [135:35]
Bill Simmons
Aren't you hoping Miami trades Jimmy and makes a dumb trade?
- [135:39]
Dad
Yeah, yeah.
- [135:40]
Bill Simmons
I'm really hoping this somehow doesn't work out for them. They're in a very strange spot.
- [135:44]
Dad
I hope I text Tommy before you do when they do that.
- [135:48]
Bill Simmons
All right, dad. Happy New Year. Thanks for your Boston report. Good to see you.
- [135:51]
Dad
Good to see you. Happy New Year.
- [135:54]
Bill Simmons
All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to my dad, thanks to Joe House, thanks to Sean Fenasey, thanks to Saruti and Kyle and Gahao. As always, happy new Year. Enjoy the weekend. I will see you on Sunday night with Cous and Sal. Don't forget, we are doing it live on my YouTube channel, the bill Simmons channel. So right after the game ends, we'll be going on. We'll be talking about guessing the playoff odds, all the playoff implications of the games on Sunday, Lions, Vikings, breakdown, everything you want. We're gonna have all but enjoy the weekend. I will see you on Saturday. Must be 21 plus in President select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 + in President D.C. gambling problem call 1-800-GamblingR or visit rg-help.com, call 1-887-89-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplian ma.org or call 800-327-550 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text hopeny in New York.